Re: Geronimo and Incubation

[Leo Simons]

Hi Aaron!

On Sat, Feb 04, 2006 at 03:02:23PM -0500, Aaron Mulder wrote:
> If you want to involve the community outside the various PMCs, then

Heh. This ain't just open source, its open "just about everything". Of
course I want the wider (developer) community involved...I'd hope
everyone wants that -- its one of the fundamental pillars upon which
apache is built!

> IMHO it might be helpful for you to list or point to a writeup of the
> duties of the incubator PMC. 

No problem! The incubator front page at

  http://incubator.apache.org/

is in large part devoted to being that writeup.

> I'm not at all clear on what the
> incubator is supposed to do other than vet code and the somewhat
> abstract "ensure healthy communities". 

If you want to get a clearer picture, please do spend some time reading
the incubator website and the [EMAIL PROTECTED] archives at

  http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/

A lot has been said about precisely this previously.

> If the code has been vetted,

Actually, the incubator is (among other things) there to ensure that
new stuff entering the ASF is vetted, but less so to actually /do/ the
"code vetting" - the responsibility for actually doing that is pretty
much completely delegated to other PMCs, or to a PPMC (like geronimo
once had).

Note there is no "the" code I referred to. However, according to the
status files for the subprojects under incubation on behalf of geronimo,
there's a whole bunch of code that hasn't been vetted just yet.

> it seems clear to me that the Geronimo community is healthy

I did not intend to question the health of the Geronimo community in
general in my previous email. What I talked about (and questioned) was
the health of the interaction between the geronimo project and the
incubation process, and more specifically the interaction between the
body responsible for oversight of the geronimo project (its PMC) and the
incubation process.

> and (with
> and without the addition of the proposed subprojects) growing, so I'm
> wondering what else the incubator PMC feels responsible for.

Once again, please do note my email was not on behalf of the incubator
PMC but completely on personal title. However, to answer your question,

  http://incubator.apache.org/resolution.html

spells out precisely what the incubator PMC is responsible for.

> I'm also
> wondering why adding code and contributors to an existing healthy
> project would be a bad thing. 

I would too. Its usually a Good Thing(tm). I don't understand where this
comment is coming from at all. I certainly did not mean to imply anything
along these lines. I'm sorry if that wasn't clear.

> About the only thing that seems like a
> problem to me (other than certain explosive e-mails, which in the main
> did not seem to be from Geronimo or incubating-project members), is
> the issue of proposed committers who did not actually contribute to
> the projects in question (bearing in mind that code is not the only
> possible type of contribution).

I explicitly didn't try to compile a list of problems. That's just a really
painful process which leads to lots of discussion and friction. While that
may be fruitful, I don't think it would help for me to try and be a part of
that process.

Please do recognize there is a lot of information from private mailing lists
and off-list conversations that can lead to a perspective different from
yours. There's unfortunately preciously little I can do personally about
reconciling this difference since it is not appropriate for me to disclose
details from private discussions.

IMNSHO, most of these kinds of talks should be had on public mailing lists.
So even though I can't quote from private archives, I can certainly make my
own contributions "as public as possible". Let's hope others do as well.


cheers,


LSD



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Re: Geronimo Remote deployment

[Niclas Hedhman]

On Thursday 16 June 2005 09:43, David Blevins wrote:
> You should ask on the user@geronimo.apache.org list.  I would have
> forwarded your message myself, but your confidentiality statement prevents
> me from legally doing so :)

Really? ;o) How about this message ??

Niclas

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Re: Geronimo Remote deployment

[David Blevins]

Hi Kumar,

You should ask on the user@geronimo.apache.org list.  I would have forwarded 
your message myself, but your confidentiality statement prevents me from 
legally doing so :)

Cheers,
David

On Tue, Jun 14, 2005 at 12:48:48PM +0530, NATARAJAN Sasi Kumar wrote:
> Hai All
> 
>  
> 
>The following command is possible to deploy local. But I am
> expecting remote deployment how can I do. Where can I mention the
> Hostname and what is the argument. Option. Anyone has idea please advice
> to me
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks in Advance
> 
> Kumar
> 
>  
> 
> >deployer.jar --user system --password manager deploy sample.war
> 
>  
> 
> Confidentiality Statement:
> 
> This message is intended only for the individual or entity to which it is 
> addressed. It may contain privileged, confidential information which is 
> exempt from disclosure under applicable laws. If you are not the intended 
> recipient, please note that you are strictly prohibited from disseminating or 
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> copying this information. If you have received this communication in error, 
> please notify us immediately by return email.
> 

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RE: Geronimo J2EE project

[Alan D. Cabrera]

Bhanu,

The mailing lists can be found in 

http://geronimo.apache.org/mail-lists.html


I'll fix the wiki.



Regards,
Alan

> -Original Message-
> From: Bhanu Vasireddy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 7:40 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Geronimo J2EE project
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> 
> 
> I am not sure whether Geronimo J2EE project falls under incubator
project.
> I tried to subscribe Geronimo mailing list using following mail id's
and I
> am getting failure notice. is there any other mail address other then
> these 2 addresses
> 
> 
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any help in this matter will be appreciated.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> VCB
> 
> 
> 
> -
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> New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!

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Re: Geronimo Policy and effect on community

[Nicola Ken Barozzi]

I have read all your mail in detail.

Let me try to address and reply to your points very simply:

1 - Geronimo is not an Apache project, it's still in incubation.
If it proves itself to be unable to work as Apache standards need
it too, it will not become an Apache project. This is exactly
why we have the Incubator.
2 - Hivemind has not applied to incubation, as it could have done.
If it would have done so, it would have been treated in exactly
the same way.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- verba volant, scripta manent -
   (discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
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Re: Geronimo Policy and effect on community

[Jeremy Boynes]

Vic, in response to one of your questions.

Vic Cekvenich wrote:

2. Just so we are using the right dictionary and are on the same page, 
lets define a certain word in a hypothetical made up scenario.
Lets say that that a commercially license product was refactored (it 
could be any, but lets say JSF) lets say the vendor did not file a 
patent on the design and that design was openly documented. Let's that 
there was some legal loophole that would allow for refactoring.
The process takes was to put the files in a modern IDE (it could be any, 
but lets say InteliJ) refactor the package names, refactor the method 
names, refactor the properties names (String), and then change the TLDs 
to map the new packages/names. (These powerful refactoring tools only 
become available quite recently; people that have been using Vi type 
editors would be surprised at the power and ease)
All the package names are renamed different, method names are different, 
string names are different (A reasonable coder could do this to a 
package of JSF size well within an hour work). The code would be 
similar, since there are only so many GoF and other design patters, and 
the JSF TcK and API are well documented so requirements are same in the 
original RI JSF and the legally refactored JSF.
These people did not take time to design and write it from scratch via 
independent means, but copied and changed some things, and I stated that 
this was legal in this example. For example, plagiarism as I understand 
it, is a verbatim copy, but it is not plagiarism to copy and then change 
a few things.

Q: Would PMC say that this is an example of being (legal, but) 
un-ethical, to refactor a design as I outlined here?

I can't speak for the PMC, but as the person who "refactored" JBoss(tm) 
into Elba, I can speak to that.

First, let us talk of plagiarism, from plagiarize, defined by 
Merriam-Webster as "to steal and pass off (the ideas or words of 
another) as one's own : use (another's production) without crediting the 
source"

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=plagiarized

Elba was a legitimate, LGPL licensed, freely available derivative of 
JBoss(tm). Its very home page stated it was a fork of JBoss(tm), 
clearing stating its source. All @author tags in the code were retained, 
acknowledging the contributions of all the people who had worked on the 
project. It should be clear to an impartial observer that credit was 
given to the source.

So why were all package names, classes, XML files and so forth renamed 
from JBoss(tm) to Elba? Simple, because JBoss(tm) is a registered 
trademark of Marc Fleury and he has stated that he will sue anyone who 
trys to use it. To quote his interview with eWeek: "If there's a new 
JBoss, if they fork it and call it JBoss I would sue them. There is only 
one version that we control."

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1123136,00.asp

By the way, he is right to do so - he must defend the mark. There is no 
doubt that this is a legal requirement, but whether it is ethical to 
trademark a community effort and then use that mark for commercial gain 
is an area I do not intend to discuss.

--
Jeremy
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RE: Geronimo Policy and effect on community

[Vic Cekvenich]

This is being sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and cc-ed most ( I had to manually 
search for e-mails of each, so I gave up after a while) of the officers- 
because it discusses policy, and cc-ed the incubator list so there is a 
record of it. Before this, I posted a few messages on Jakarta-General, 
same place where Geronimo was discussed, before it's move to Incubator. 
It has been said that my postings were not clear, presumptive or did not 
make sense, and should be on incubator and other non-jakarta members.  I 
would like to be more effective in expressing my point, I feel an 
important OSS policy issue, and communicate my concerns about this 
"new?" direction/policy for ASF community, so let me build my point 
slowly and verbosely, in the spirit of "FREE as in FREE Speech", that is 
so special for open source projects.

Who am I? (*goto A)
What is my "agenda"? (*goto B)
Background:
In the past jBoss was viewed by "brothers" or family, by ASF, for 
example on the Jakarta General mail list 
(http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/msg04361.html 
Here is a list of brothers of family IMO 
http://www.opensource.org/licenses/index.php on the left: BSD, Mozzila, 
GNU, etc.)
All appeared well as of June 16th meeting minutes ( 
http://apache.org/foundation/board/calendar.html )

Let me ask questions as opposed to statements, and then try to stage my 
arguments.

1. Recently, a project I am most enthused about, HiveMind (*goto C), had 
developers rightly inform the community that there may be IP 
ownership/work for hire issues.
I was the first one (10/27) to pick this up as an issue.
http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/msg29088.html
which was then followed up by a few of the members. I suggested that it 
live on sf.net for the time being. Leaders of ASF have some "fiduciary" 
duty to members and the community to protect ASF brand and image, and do 
a low risk route!

Q: Does it not make sense to the PMC to wait a few weeks/months to 
resolve any potential IP issues with WebCT before it becomes an Apache 
IP, just to be on the safe side, for this and all other projects?

2. Just so we are using the right dictionary and are on the same page, 
lets define a certain word in a hypothetical made up scenario.
Lets say that that a commercially license product was refactored (it 
could be any, but lets say JSF) lets say the vendor did not file a 
patent on the design and that design was openly documented. Let's that 
there was some legal loophole that would allow for refactoring.
The process takes was to put the files in a modern IDE (it could be any, 
but lets say InteliJ) refactor the package names, refactor the method 
names, refactor the properties names (String), and then change the TLDs 
to map the new packages/names. (These powerful refactoring tools only 
become available quite recently; people that have been using Vi type 
editors would be surprised at the power and ease)
All the package names are renamed different, method names are different, 
string names are different (A reasonable coder could do this to a 
package of JSF size well within an hour work). The code would be 
similar, since there are only so many GoF and other design patters, and 
the JSF TcK and API are well documented so requirements are same in the 
original RI JSF and the legally refactored JSF.
These people did not take time to design and write it from scratch via 
independent means, but copied and changed some things, and I stated that 
this was legal in this example. For example, plagiarism as I understand 
it, is a verbatim copy, but it is not plagiarism to copy and then change 
a few things.

Q: Would PMC say that this is an example of being (legal, but) 
un-ethical, to refactor a design as I outlined here?

3. All ASF committers are required to sign an Agreement with ASF.
Q: Does ASF have a policy for people that misrepresent or violate the 
signed member agreement, for example if it turns out that developer did 
not own the IP committed?

4. Geronimo was proposed by ASF officers. And there is a policy of not 
having homogeneous developers on a ASF project AFAIK.
Here are CoreDevelopers.net principlas that are also developers Geronimo 
(according to the home page of CoreDevelopers.net):
Dain Sundstong, David Jencks, Greg Wilkins, James Strachan, Jeremy 
Boynes, Jules Golsnell, Renigio Chirino, Jason Dillon, (Jan Bartal) - 
Associate of CoreDeveloper.net). Total of 9.

Geronimo developers that are not principals of CoreDevelopers.net 
(according to
http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/msg00644.html ):
Bruce Snyder, David Blevins, Geir Magnusson, Simone Bordet, Richard 
Monson-Hegel, Jim Jagilski. Total of 6.

(According to some browsing of http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse   of 
the CVS for the Geronimo, ALL commits in CVS are by CoreDevlopers.net 
LLC. This is not scientific, but I did look. I did find a few commits by 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] who I do not know what group they 
belong in, but I state

RE: Geronimo Policy and effect on community

[Vic Cekvenich]

This is being sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and cc-ed most ( I had to manually 
search for e-mails of each, so I gave up after a while) of the officers- 
because it discusses policy, and cc-ed the incubator list so there is a 
record of it. Before this, I posted a few messages on Jakarta-General, 
same place where Geronimo was discussed, before it's move to Incubator. 
It has been said that my postings were not clear, presumptive or did not 
make sense, and should be on incubator and other non-jakarta members.  I 
would like to be more effective in expressing my point, I feel an 
important OSS policy issue, and communicate my concerns about this 
"new?" direction/policy for ASF community, so let me build my point 
slowly and verbosely, in the spirit of "FREE as in FREE Speech", that is 
so special for open source projects.

Who am I? (*goto A)
What is my "agenda"? (*goto B)
Background:
In the past jBoss was viewed by "brothers" or family, by ASF, for 
example on the Jakarta General mail list 
(http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/msg04361.html 
Here is a list of brothers of family IMO 
http://www.opensource.org/licenses/index.php on the left: BSD, Mozzila, 
GNU, etc.)
All appeared well as of June 16th meeting minutes ( 
http://apache.org/foundation/board/calendar.html )

Let me ask questions as opposed to statements, and then try to stage my 
arguments.

1. Recently, a project I am most enthused about, HiveMind (*goto C), had 
developers rightly inform the community that there may be IP 
ownership/work for hire issues.
I was the first one (10/27) to pick this up as an issue.
http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/msg29088.html
which was then followed up by a few of the members. I suggested that it 
live on sf.net for the time being. Leaders of ASF have some "fiduciary" 
duty to members and the community to protect ASF brand and image, and do 
a low risk route!

Q: Does it not make sense to the PMC to wait a few weeks/months to 
resolve any potential IP issues with WebCT before it becomes an Apache 
IP, just to be on the safe side, for this and all other projects?

2. Just so we are using the right dictionary and are on the same page, 
lets define a certain word in a hypothetical made up scenario.
Lets say that that a commercially license product was refactored (it 
could be any, but lets say JSF) lets say the vendor did not file a 
patent on the design and that design was openly documented. Let's that 
there was some legal loophole that would allow for refactoring.
The process takes was to put the files in a modern IDE (it could be any, 
but lets say InteliJ) refactor the package names, refactor the method 
names, refactor the properties names (String), and then change the TLDs 
to map the new packages/names. (These powerful refactoring tools only 
become available quite recently; people that have been using Vi type 
editors would be surprised at the power and ease)
All the package names are renamed different, method names are different, 
string names are different (A reasonable coder could do this to a 
package of JSF size well within an hour work). The code would be 
similar, since there are only so many GoF and other design patters, and 
the JSF TcK and API are well documented so requirements are same in the 
original RI JSF and the legally refactored JSF.
These people did not take time to design and write it from scratch via 
independent means, but copied and changed some things, and I stated that 
this was legal in this example. For example, plagiarism as I understand 
it, is a verbatim copy, but it is not plagiarism to copy and then change 
a few things.

Q: Would PMC say that this is an example of being (legal, but) 
un-ethical, to refactor a design as I outlined here?

3. All ASF committers are required to sign an Agreement with ASF.
Q: Does ASF have a policy for people that misrepresent or violate the 
signed member agreement, for example if it turns out that developer did 
not own the IP committed?

4. Geronimo was proposed by ASF officers. And there is a policy of not 
having homogeneous developers on a ASF project AFAIK.
Here are CoreDevelopers.net principlas that are also developers Geronimo 
(according to the home page of CoreDevelopers.net):
Dain Sundstong, David Jencks, Greg Wilkins, James Strachan, Jeremy 
Boynes, Jules Golsnell, Renigio Chirino, Jason Dillon, (Jan Bartal) - 
Associate of CoreDeveloper.net). Total of 9.

Geronimo developers that are not principals of CoreDevelopers.net 
(according to
http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/msg00644.html ):
Bruce Snyder, David Blevins, Geir Magnusson, Simone Bordet, Richard 
Monson-Hegel, Jim Jagilski. Total of 6.

(According to some browsing of http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse   of 
the CVS for the Geronimo, ALL commits in CVS are by CoreDevlopers.net 
LLC. This is not scientific, but I did look. I did find a few commits by 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] who I do not know what group they 
belong in, but I state

Re: Geronimo Developers

[robert burrell donkin]

geronimo now has it's own list. see 
http://incubator.apache.org/projects/geronimo.html.

- robert

On Thursday, September 25, 2003, at 01:00 AM, Daniel Halem wrote:

Hi,

I'm a senior engineer who's very experienced with Java and J2EE server
implementations.  I was the architect behind BroadVision's Servlet and JSP
container.  I'd be interested in working on Geronimo(part time), if you
have stuff for me to work on.
I've attached a copy of my resume in case you're interested.

- Dan

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RE: Geronimo Developers

[Reinhard Poetz]

From: Daniel Halem

> Hi,
> 
> I'm a senior engineer who's very experienced with Java and 
> J2EE server implementations.  I was the architect behind 
> BroadVision's Servlet and JSP container.  I'd be interested 
> in working on Geronimo(part time), if you have stuff for me 
> to work on.

Simple: just do it! Checkout Gernonimo, learn what they do, take part in
discussions on their mailing lists, submit patches ...

Reinhard


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RE: Geronimo

[Jeremy Boynes]

Geronimo has invited contributions from any source, subject to the normal
ASF CLA and approval by existing committers (the normal Apache process).

To be certified it must implement the entire J2EE specification (which
obviously includes JMS) using code that can be released by ASF. If you are
willing and able to contribute code from OpenJMS that would big a huge step
forward in that area; if not, we _will_ need a JMS implementation and your
experience would be very valuable to the project and could help with
interoperability between Geronimo and OpenJMS.

Jeremy


> -Original Message-
> From: Tim Anderson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 6:24 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Geronimo
>
>
> Will Geronimo integrate existing OS,
> or is it intended to have a standalone codebase?
>
> -Tim
>
> Committer, OpenJMS (http://openjms.sf.net), JMS CTS (http://jmscts.sf.net)
>
>
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>


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Re: Geronimo mailing lists and CVS

[jean-frederic clere]

Greg Stein wrote:
Hi all,

Two mailing lists have been set up for Apache Geronimo:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]   -- general discussion list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   -- receives CVS commit emails
These are standard EZMLM mailing lists. You can subscribe to them by sending
email to one/both of the following addresses:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
People interested in Geronimo should subscribe to the -dev list, as we will
begin shifting discussion over there.
There are "mbox" style archives for these mailing lists stored at:

http://incubator.apache.org/mail/

Noel has also set up Eyebrowse for the two lists:

http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/ViewLists

The CVS module is:

incubator-geronimo

The initial committers are: gstein, geirm, jstrachan, ceki, jim. We will add
more committers once we receive confirmation that CLAs have been received
(Jim, the ASF Secretary, is out of town this week).
You can check out the CVS module with a command such as:

$ cvs -d :pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/home/cvspublic co incubator-geronimo
Password: anoncvs
The CVS module is available for web-based browsing at:

http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs/incubator-geronimo/
And it is empty for the moment:
+++
> du -s /home/cvs/incubator-geronimo
2   /home/cvs/incubator-geronimo
> date
Thu Aug  7 01:07:04 PDT 2003
+++


I believe that is about it for now. Have fun!

Cheers,
-g


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RE: Geronimo

[Tim Anderson]

I'm willing to help integrate OpenJMS -
I'm not in a position to donate the OpenJMS
codebase, and I'm not particularly interested
in forking it.

-Tim

> -Original Message-
> From: Jeremy Boynes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, 6 August 2003 12:19 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: Geronimo
>
>
> Geronimo has invited contributions from any source, subject to the normal
> ASF CLA and approval by existing committers (the normal Apache process).
>
> To be certified it must implement the entire J2EE specification (which
> obviously includes JMS) using code that can be released by ASF. If you are
> willing and able to contribute code from OpenJMS that would big a
> huge step
> forward in that area; if not, we _will_ need a JMS implementation and your
> experience would be very valuable to the project and could help with
> interoperability between Geronimo and OpenJMS.
>
> Jeremy
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Tim Anderson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 6:24 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Geronimo
> >
> >
> > Will Geronimo integrate existing OS,
> > or is it intended to have a standalone codebase?
> >
> > -Tim
> >
> > Committer, OpenJMS (http://openjms.sf.net), JMS CTS
(http://jmscts.sf.net)
>
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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>
>


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Re: [geronimo] Core Service Framework (Was: RE: Names & Projects)

[Tim Urberg]

> A J2EE container is a little different from an Avalon container. Avalon 
> is a generic service/component framework. The core Geronimo container 
> is an optimised J2EE container developed from a great deal of 
> experience and use of JBoss, OpenEJB & mx4j.  Its particularly geared 
> towards EJB & MDBs.

I have a question about this.  What parts of JBoss, OpenEJB, and MX4J did you
use?  I curious about this because I'm an OpenEJB committer.

Thanks,
Tim

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Re: Geronimo is an EJB container?

[Aaron Mulder]

On Thu, 7 Aug 2003, Jason Dillon wrote:
> The EJB container is NOT built in to JBoss... it is a set of services 
> which plugin to the core.

Is the EJB server part of the core of Geronimo?  If not, will it
be packaged in CVS as completely external to the core and totally
interchangeable with other implementations?  The description given earlier
made it sound like Geronimo was an extensible EJB container, not a server
framework which happens to ship with a pre-packaged EJB brick.

Aaron


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Re: Geronimo mailing lists and CVS

[Aditya Gore]

Will the module also be available via rsync?

jean-frederic clere wrote:

Greg Stein wrote:

Hi all,

Two mailing lists have been set up for Apache Geronimo:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]   -- general discussion list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   -- receives CVS commit emails
These are standard EZMLM mailing lists. You can subscribe to them by 
sending
email to one/both of the following addresses:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
People interested in Geronimo should subscribe to the -dev list, as we 
will
begin shifting discussion over there.

There are "mbox" style archives for these mailing lists stored at:

http://incubator.apache.org/mail/

Noel has also set up Eyebrowse for the two lists:

http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/ViewLists

The CVS module is:

incubator-geronimo

The initial committers are: gstein, geirm, jstrachan, ceki, jim. We 
will add
more committers once we receive confirmation that CLAs have been received
(Jim, the ASF Secretary, is out of town this week).

You can check out the CVS module with a command such as:

$ cvs -d :pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/home/cvspublic co 
incubator-geronimo
Password: anoncvs

The CVS module is available for web-based browsing at:

http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs/incubator-geronimo/


And it is empty for the moment:
+++
 > du -s /home/cvs/incubator-geronimo
2   /home/cvs/incubator-geronimo
 > date
Thu Aug  7 01:07:04 PDT 2003
+++


I believe that is about it for now. Have fun!

Cheers,
-g


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Re: Geronimo

[Andreas Kuckartz]

> They can read the archives via http://incubator.apache.org/mail/general/
> and I think KenCoar has already requested infra team to let it (this
> list) visible via eyebrowse (http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/).

How should they know? The announcement said this: "To find out more about
this project or if you would like to become involved, please send email to
the incubator mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED]"

Andreas


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Re: Geronimo mailing lists and CVS

[Aditya Gore]

Thanks!

Greg Stein wrote:

Hmm. I think somebody needs to update an rsync configuration file for that
(which requires root privs, which I don't have). I'll follow up on it,
thanks.
Cheers,
-g
On Thu, Aug 07, 2003 at 01:51:53PM +0530, Aditya Gore wrote:

Will the module also be available via rsync?

jean-frederic clere wrote:


Greg Stein wrote:


Hi all,

Two mailing lists have been set up for Apache Geronimo:

  [EMAIL PROTECTED]   -- general discussion list
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]   -- receives CVS commit emails
These are standard EZMLM mailing lists. You can subscribe to them by 
sending
email to one/both of the following addresses:

  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
People interested in Geronimo should subscribe to the -dev list, as we 
will
begin shifting discussion over there.

There are "mbox" style archives for these mailing lists stored at:

  http://incubator.apache.org/mail/

Noel has also set up Eyebrowse for the two lists:

  http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/ViewLists

The CVS module is:

  incubator-geronimo

The initial committers are: gstein, geirm, jstrachan, ceki, jim. We 
will add
more committers once we receive confirmation that CLAs have been received
(Jim, the ASF Secretary, is out of town this week).

You can check out the CVS module with a command such as:

$ cvs -d :pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/home/cvspublic co 
incubator-geronimo
Password: anoncvs

The CVS module is available for web-based browsing at:

  http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs/incubator-geronimo/

And it is empty for the moment:
+++
du -s /home/cvs/incubator-geronimo

2   /home/cvs/incubator-geronimo

date

Thu Aug  7 01:07:04 PDT 2003
+++

I believe that is about it for now. Have fun!

Cheers,
-g



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RE: Geronimo: Sounds like some plans have already been made...

[Jonathan Duty]

When looking for decisions/plans that have been made/approved we should
look to the Wiki boards and not the mailing list.  That way we will be
able to distinguish between people posting ideas and decisions that have
been approved and are ready to be implemented.

Also, I would hate to have to sort through hundreds of e-mails to find
out what plans/decisions have been decided on.


-Original Message-
From: Aaron Bannert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 1:56 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Geronimo: Sounds like some plans have already been made...


On Wednesday, August 6, 2003, at 08:43  AM, Gareth Bryan wrote:
> For those of us not in the know / new to ASF etc: Could someone from 
> the
> board post a message detailing what plans / discussions have already 
> been
> made?

Fortunately, very few decisions have been made (none that I can think 
of)
that can't be actively influenced by new participants. Everyone should
feel free to post their ideas.

-aaron


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Re: Updating the incubator site (Re: [geronimo] geronimo website)

[Paul Hammant]

Greg,

Paul -- please set your umask [on login] to enable group-write on the files
in /www/incubator.apache.org. It is making it very difficult for others to
update the site :-)
 

I've 755'd all in my name. I think that is enough..

- Paul

--
http://www.thoughtworks.com -> The art of heavy lifting.
Home for many Agile practicing, Open Source activists...


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Re: Geronimo is an EJB container?

[Dain Sundstrom]

On Wednesday, August 6, 2003, at 02:21 PM, Aaron Mulder wrote:

	Maybe it's just me, but I thought it was a _weakness_ of JBoss
that the EJB container is "built in".  Why is Geronimo an extensible 
EJB
container, instead of a J2EE server framework that accepts a generic 
EJB
container as well as a generic servlet container, generic mail service,
etc?
Absolutely.  Although, I think being able to plugin in a new EJB 
container is important, I think having a default container 
implementation that is extensible is critical to our success.  As more 
and more services are piled on by the J2EE spec, we need to easily be 
able to add them without a total rewrite of a highly coupled system.  
It will also allow revolutionary new services to be built and tried out 
without requiring big changes to the base server.

Basically good all around...

-dain

/*
 * Dain Sundstrom
 * Partner
 * Core Developers Network
 */
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Re: Updating the incubator site (Re: [geronimo] geronimo website)

[Paul Hammant]

Geir,


http://incubator.apache.org/updating_docs.html


Site now updated.


Thx - problem is, I didn't check in the html and pdf - I figured that  
you'd use forrest to regen.  Can it be done again?

This time genned and updated. Great work.
Sigh, my hastily penned words did not last long! 

- Paul

--
http://www.thoughtworks.com -> The art of heavy lifting.
Home for many Agile practicing, Open Source activists...


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RE: [geronimo] Me, James and javaMail

[Danny Angus]

>  What I would like to see for a
> future release of
> Geronimo is an E-Mail Message Bean container. That is, a Message
> Bean that can
> process incoming e-mails.

We already have the Mailet API see: http://james.apache.org I'd be more
interested in adapting this, and implementing a mailet container for
geronimo than creating anything new in this space.

d.


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Re: [geronimo] Core Service Framework (Was: RE: Names & Projects)

[James Strachan]

On Wednesday, August 6, 2003, at 05:55  pm, Tim Urberg wrote:

A J2EE container is a little different from an Avalon container. 
Avalon
is a generic service/component framework. The core Geronimo container
is an optimised J2EE container developed from a great deal of
experience and use of JBoss, OpenEJB & mx4j.  Its particularly geared
towards EJB & MDBs.
I have a question about this.  What parts of JBoss, OpenEJB, and MX4J 
did you
use?  I curious about this because I'm an OpenEJB committer.
Speaking on behalf of all the contributors to the initial code base for 
the container - pretty much all of tthem. (Note we're reusing mx4j 
as-is right now in the code).

Today the codebase has a bit of a JBoss-experience-bias I guess; so 
we're eager to get as much feedback from OpenEJB & Jonas folks on the 
current code.

James
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RE: Updating the incubator site (Re: [geronimo] geronimo website)

[Noel J. Bergman]

Paul,

Check your login scripts.  Your umask is 022.  It should be 002.

--- Noel

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Re: Updating the incubator site (Re: [geronimo] geronimo website)

[Paul Hammant]

> I've added a page documenting this.  When the site refreshes, it will
> appear at:
> 
> http://incubator.apache.org/updating_docs.html

Site now updated.

-ph


Want to chat instantly with your online friends?  Get the FREE Yahoo!
Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/

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Re: Geronimo

[Tetsuya Kitahata]

They can read the archives via http://incubator.apache.org/mail/general/
and I think KenCoar has already requested infra team to let it (this
list) visible via eyebrowse (http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/).

-- Tetsuya ([EMAIL PROTECTED])

On 5 Aug 2003 23:21:24 +0200
(Subject: Re: Geronimo)
"Andreas Kuckartz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> > > I am interested in helping out in any way possible
> > Watch this space :)
> Are you sure that all these people subscribed to this mailing list?!
> Andreas



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Re: [geronimo] Core Service Framework (Was: RE: Names & Projects)

[J Aaron Farr]

Quoting James Strachan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:


> 
> To be certified Geronimo needs to fully support JMX. So the current 
> plan is to follow the Tomcat 5 & JBoss ideas to use MBeans to register 
> & wire the services together. Whatever component model or libraries a 
> particular service wishes to use is up to it I suppose, it shouldn't 
> really affect the core container.
> 

So geronimo will be built on top of Tomcat 5?

It seems a shame that we have an "Apache Server Framework" that will not be used
in the "Apache J2EE" implementation, at least at the container level.

-- 
 jaaron  

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Re: [geronimo] Core Service Framework (Was: RE: Names & Projects)

[James Strachan]

Maybe a quicker answer to this thread is -  the core Geronimo container 
is an EJB / MDB container which supports pluggable services via JMX. 
Thats quite different to the scope of Avalon.

(Can you tell I've given up caffeine recently - my brains still a bit 
fuzzy today :)

On Wednesday, August 6, 2003, at 05:39  pm, James Strachan wrote:

On Wednesday, August 6, 2003, at 05:18  pm, J Aaron Farr wrote:

Quoting James Strachan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

On Wednesday, August 6, 2003, at 04:34  pm, J Aaron Farr wrote:

Quoting James Strachan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

To be certified Geronimo needs to fully support JMX. So the current
plan is to follow the Tomcat 5 & JBoss ideas to use MBeans to
register
& wire the services together. Whatever component model or libraries
a
particular service wishes to use is up to it I suppose, it 
shouldn't
really affect the core container.

So geronimo will be built on top of Tomcat 5?
Not quite - it'll use JMX & JNDI to bind services into the core
container (J2EE certified remember). Tomcat 4/5 will be one of those
services that plugs into Geronimo along with things like Jetty, 
tyrex,
openjms etc.


so the core container will be code developed from scratch within 
geronimo?  or
will it just an mbean server from mx4j?
The core container has already been developed - we should be able to 
put it somewhere (CVS / web) soon I hope. Then hopefully things will 
be a bit more clear.

A J2EE container is a little different from an Avalon container. 
Avalon is a generic service/component framework. The core Geronimo 
container is an optimised J2EE container developed from a great deal 
of experience and use of JBoss, OpenEJB & mx4j.  Its particularly 
geared towards EJB & MDBs.

Its not unlike saying, why have 2 web application frameworks (ducks 
the usual JSP v Velocity v JSF v Tapestry kinds of debates). Whilst in 
the same general ballpark they have quite different motivations & use 
cases which leads to different code bases if you want to do them well. 
Like most things the devils in the details. However once the codes put 
somewhere (soon I hope) you'll be able to take a look and judge for 
yourself.

Note like I said, there's no reason why you couldn't deploy an Avalon 
container inside Geronimo. So maybe a better way to look at this is 
you could embed Avalon into Geronimo if you wish - but for the 
foreseeable future the core container in Geronimo won't be based on 
Avalon itself.

Remember most of the work is in the services that drop into Geronimo - 
so if you're trying to spread the Avalon word - I'd focus on that if I 
were you.


Not to rant too much on the subject, but Avalon's containers (ie- 
Phoenix,
Merlin and Fortress) are designed to do just this.  JMX support 
exists and
there's been some work done on proper JNDI support.  You can already 
run Tomcat,
Jetty, OpenJMS and a host of other services within Avalon as it 
stands now.
I'm aware of that. Like I said - the devils in the details.
James
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Re: Geronimo

[James Strachan]

On Wednesday, August 6, 2003, at 09:17  pm, Larry Sanderson wrote:
A couple of questions I have regarding this project are:
1) Will this initially be a fork of JBoss or any other open source
containers?
No

2) Will the project be managed as an integration of many stand-alone
components (Servlet container, EJB container, Tx Processor, JMS server,
JNDI server, etc..)?  I think it would be nice to have a standalone
version of each of these - I have wanted a good open-source JMS
container for a while.
Yes! :)

James
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Integrating other open source (Re: Geronimo)

[James Strachan]

On Wednesday, August 6, 2003, at 02:23  am, Tim Anderson wrote:

Will Geronimo integrate existing OS,
or is it intended to have a standalone codebase?
It will be integrating existing OS which is license-compatible with 
Apache. So I think anything which has a normal BSD / ASF style licence 
should be fine (mx4j, openjms, tyrex etc).

James
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Updating the incubator site (Re: [geronimo] geronimo website)

[Jeff Turner]

On Wed, Aug 06, 2003 at 03:28:44PM -0400, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
> I'd like to update the geronimo pages on the incubator site to provide 
> more info.  Can someone email me (privately if you wish) and let me 
> know how?

I've added a page documenting this.  When the site refreshes, it will
appear at:

http://incubator.apache.org/updating_docs.html


--Jeff

> geir
> 
> -- 
> Geir Magnusson Jr   203-956-2604(w)
> Adeptra, Inc.   203-434-2093(m)
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]   203-247-1713(m)
> 

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Re: [geronimo] Me, James and javaMail

[Richard Monson-Haefel]

Obviously we will need a JavaMail implementation. Isn't there one out there
somewhere that is BSD like?  What I would like to see for a future release of
Geronimo is an E-Mail Message Bean container. That is, a Message Bean that can
process incoming e-mails.  One way to accomplish this is to implement the
messaging aspects of the J2EE connector architecture.  I would be happy to help
with that after we get the standard service working.

Danny Angus wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Probably biting off more than I can chew here, I'm currently as busy as the
> day is long :-(, but I'd be happy to look at implementing javaMail for
> Geronimo.
>
> For those who don't know who the hell I am (or what I'm taking about) I'm a
> James developer, and James is Apache's 100% Java mailserver.
>
> Its worth noting that the James developers have, from time to time, had
> "issues" with the design of Java mail, primarily that it is a client
> oriented API which makes life difficult for server developers, we're left
> with the choice of rolling our own or shoehorning round pegs into square
> holes.
>
> Notwithstanding this there are already moves afoot to create several
> alternative implementations of javaMail abstract classes, (particularly
> message "Store"s[1] where we see a market for implementations of MBOX and
> other popular text based systems), and we've also toyed with the idea of
> providing our own outgoing SMTP implementation (we currently use javaMail)
> in order to have greater control over outgoing mail behaviour (we'd like to
> optimse sending and implement connection re-use), and given that we're here
> discussing Geronimo perhaps this could be an implementation of
> "Transport"[2] to replace com.sun.mail.smtp.SMTPTransport
>
> >From the POV of creating another javaMail implementation you may not realise
> that Sun have already put a huge amount of implementation into javax.mail.*,
> and very much of the inheritance root of javax.mail classes is made up of
> abstract classes rather than interfaces. You only have to look at the
> javadocs for j2ee to see that there's a much greater ratio of classes
> (abstract and concrete) to interfaces in javax.mail than most other
> packages.
>
> Unfortunately this removes much of the scope we would like to have for
> "correcting" the client bias in the API, by creating a ground-up
> server-centric implementation.
>
> Anyway I guess I should wait 'till we get a geronimo list before discussing
> this much further.
>
> d.
>
> [1] http://java.sun.com/j2ee/1.4/docs/api/javax/mail/Store.html
> [2] http://java.sun.com/j2ee/1.4/docs/api/javax/mail/Transport.html
>
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--
Richard Monson-Haefel
Author of J2EE Web Services (Addison-Wesley 2003)
Author of Enterprise JavaBeans, 3rd Edition  (O'Reilly 2001)
Co-Author of Java Message Service (O'Reilly 2000)
http://www.Monson-Haefel.com



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Re: [geronimo] Me, James and javaMail

[Richard Monson-Haefel]

I just took a quick look at James. Nice job. I think the Mailet API is an
excellent component model and would work well as an MDB. We would need to
write adapters to make the Mailets conformant with EJB 2.1, but I don't
think that will be very difficult. What we will need to do, however, is
wrapper the calls to the Mailet with transaction and security control that
is consistent with the EJB 2.1 specification. Again, I don't think this
will be a big problem.  Anyway, it looks good to me. I'll be happy to help
integrate James with Geronimo.

Danny Angus wrote:

> >  What I would like to see for a
> > future release of
> > Geronimo is an E-Mail Message Bean container. That is, a Message
> > Bean that can
> > process incoming e-mails.
>
> We already have the Mailet API see: http://james.apache.org I'd be more
> interested in adapting this, and implementing a mailet container for
> geronimo than creating anything new in this space.
>
> d.

--
Richard Monson-Haefel
Author of J2EE Web Services (Addison-Wesley 2003)
Author of Enterprise JavaBeans, 3rd Edition  (O'Reilly 2001)
Co-Author of Java Message Service (O'Reilly 2000)
http://www.Monson-Haefel.com



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Re: Geronimo: Sounds like some plans have already been made...

[Henri Yandell]

James/Geir need to create a PROPOSAL.html or some such.
To do this, they need CVS.
To get CVS, they need to get around the -1 on the name from Roy, or just
ignore him.

What are the incubator rules on -1's in this case? Is Roy's -1 binding?

Once the PROPOSAL.html is written, it and STATUS.html should contain the
information you're asking for.

Hen

On Wed, 6 Aug 2003, Gareth Bryan wrote:

> I'll try to resist posting my opinions regarding naming, after all - its
> a little academic considering the number of code lines the project
> currently has ;)
>
> I've been reading all the geronimo related posts to this list over the
> past 24 hours and it's becoming clear that some level of planning has
> already taken place regarding architecture (as I would expect ;)).
>
> For those of us not in the know / new to ASF etc: Could someone from the
> board post a message detailing what plans / discussions have already been
> made?
>
> Thanks,
> --
>   Gareth Bryan
>   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> --
> http://www.fastmail.fm - A fast, anti-spam email service.
>
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Re: [geronimo] Core Service Framework (Was: RE: Names & Projects)

[James Strachan]

On Wednesday, August 6, 2003, at 04:10  pm, J Aaron Farr wrote:

-Original Message-
From: Aaron Mulder [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 12:21 PM
On the project front, am I correct that the goal is to integrate
other projects wherever possible and only build when strictly
necessary? If there is going to be building going on, I assume there
will be separate areas for the "core server and interfaces" and the
various imported projects or "built" subprojects?
The 'core server and interfaces' is what I am interested in.  There 
are several
open source projects which provide frameworks on which Geronimo could 
be built,
for example Avalon.  A (incomplete) list of such projects is on the 
Avalon wiki
site at:

http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?AvalonRelatedProjects

Have any plans already been made?
To be certified Geronimo needs to fully support JMX. So the current 
plan is to follow the Tomcat 5 & JBoss ideas to use MBeans to register 
& wire the services together. Whatever component model or libraries a 
particular service wishes to use is up to it I suppose, it shouldn't 
really affect the core container.

James
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Re: Geronimo

[Tetsuya Kitahata]

Oh, yep. you are right.

Maybe, more slight changes (improvements) at the incubator site top
will be needed :)

-- Tetsuya ([EMAIL PROTECTED])

On 5 Aug 2003 23:50:03 +0200
(Subject: Re: Geronimo)
"Andreas Kuckartz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> > They can read the archives via http://incubator.apache.org/mail/general/
> > and I think KenCoar has already requested infra team to let it (this
> > list) visible via eyebrowse (http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/).

> How should they know? The announcement said this: "To find out more about
> this project or if you would like to become involved, please send email to
> the incubator mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED]"


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RE: [geronimo] Me, James and javaMail

[Danny Angus]

We are still open for considering proposals to be included in Mailet v3.
I suggest that if there are appropriate changes which could be made to the
API to make it conform with anything relevant you subscribe to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and put forward some proposals with reasoning.

Please be aware that we're pretty happy with the API at the moment, it has
been stable for a long time and serves it purpose well, so we're probably
not too recepetive to radical overhaul, but are receptive to sensitive
extensions where they may lever it into new territory (like this).

d.


> -Original Message-
> From: Richard Monson-Haefel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: 07 August 2003 10:16
> To: Danny Angus
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [geronimo] Me, James and javaMail
>
>
> I just took a quick look at James. Nice job. I think the Mailet API is an
> excellent component model and would work well as an MDB. We would need to
> write adapters to make the Mailets conformant with EJB 2.1, but I don't
> think that will be very difficult. What we will need to do, however, is
> wrapper the calls to the Mailet with transaction and security control that
> is consistent with the EJB 2.1 specification. Again, I don't think this
> will be a big problem.  Anyway, it looks good to me. I'll be happy to help
> integrate James with Geronimo.
>
> Danny Angus wrote:
>
> > >  What I would like to see for a
> > > future release of
> > > Geronimo is an E-Mail Message Bean container. That is, a Message
> > > Bean that can
> > > process incoming e-mails.
> >
> > We already have the Mailet API see: http://james.apache.org I'd be more
> > interested in adapting this, and implementing a mailet container for
> > geronimo than creating anything new in this space.
> >
> > d.
>
> --
> Richard Monson-Haefel
> Author of J2EE Web Services (Addison-Wesley 2003)
> Author of Enterprise JavaBeans, 3rd Edition  (O'Reilly 2001)
> Co-Author of Java Message Service (O'Reilly 2000)
> http://www.Monson-Haefel.com
>
>


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Re: Geronimo: Sounds like some plans have already been made...

[Aaron Bannert]

On Wednesday, August 6, 2003, at 08:51  AM, Henri Yandell wrote:

James/Geir need to create a PROPOSAL.html or some such.
To do this, they need CVS.
Post any files you want committed, or patches, and I or someone
with appropriate privs can commit them. Eventually we'll get sick
of committing all your contributions and give you direct access. :)
To get CVS, they need to get around the -1 on the name from Roy, or 
just
ignore him.

What are the incubator rules on -1's in this case? Is Roy's -1 binding?
Yes, it is binding. Compromise with him or come up with another name.

Once the PROPOSAL.html is written, it and STATUS.html should contain 
the
information you're asking for.
Let's just stick to plain text for now.

-aaron

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Re: Geronimo

[Geir Magnusson Jr .]

On Tuesday, August 5, 2003, at 12:48 PM, Kevin Tew wrote:

I am interested in helping out in any way possible

I have a lot of java experience and j2ee experience and would love to 
get in
and help early.
Watch this space :)

Kevin Tew

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Re: Geronimo: Sounds like some plans have already been made...

[Geir Magnusson Jr .]

On Thursday, August 7, 2003, at 02:06 PM, Aaron Bannert wrote:

On Wednesday, August 6, 2003, at 08:51  AM, Henri Yandell wrote:

James/Geir need to create a PROPOSAL.html or some such.
To do this, they need CVS.
Post any files you want committed, or patches, and I or someone
with appropriate privs can commit them. Eventually we'll get sick
of committing all your contributions and give you direct access. :)


To get CVS, they need to get around the -1 on the name from Roy, or 
just
ignore him.

What are the incubator rules on -1's in this case? Is Roy's -1 
binding?
Yes, it is binding. Compromise with him or come up with another name.
If we're talking about his comment on the member's list, I don't 
understand why it's binding.  I respect it, agree with it, and 
certainly want to change the name too, but I don't understand why any 
post by a member can do that when there was no vote being taken.

For example, could I veto the name 'XMLBean' by just posting to the 
members list?  I don't think so.


Once the PROPOSAL.html is written, it and STATUS.html should contain 
the
information you're asking for.
Let's just stick to plain text for now.

--
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Adeptra, Inc.   203-434-2093(m)
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Re: Geronimo: Sounds like some plans have already been made...

[Greg Stein]

On Thu, Aug 07, 2003 at 11:06:05AM -0700, Aaron Bannert wrote:
> 
> On Wednesday, August 6, 2003, at 08:51  AM, Henri Yandell wrote:
> 
> >James/Geir need to create a PROPOSAL.html or some such.
> >To do this, they need CVS.

CVS has already been created. The 'incubator-geronimo' module. See:

http://incubator.apache.org/projects/geronimo.html

> Post any files you want committed, or patches, and I or someone
> with appropriate privs can commit them. Eventually we'll get sick
> of committing all your contributions and give you direct access. :)

James and Geir already have commit access to the incubator-geronimo module.
Along with Jim Jagielski, myself, and Ceki.

> >To get CVS, they need to get around the -1 on the name from Roy, or 
> >just
> >ignore him.
> >
> >What are the incubator rules on -1's in this case? Is Roy's -1 binding?
> 
> Yes, it is binding. Compromise with him or come up with another name.

No, it is NOT binding. Process-oriented decisions are done by voting, and
vetoes are not applicable. Vetoes only apply to technical decision.

The Geronimo name will stick until the community comes up with a new name.
Whether a new name will be *required* by the Board/membership/Incubator is
unknown right now.

> >Once the PROPOSAL.html is written, it and STATUS.html should contain 
> >the
> >information you're asking for.
> 
> Let's just stick to plain text for now.

Agreed.

All that said, Henri is right, though. Geir/James needs to start on a STATUS
file just like the other Incubator projects.

Cheers,
-g

-- 
Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/

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Re: Geronimo: Sounds like some plans have already been made...

[Henri Yandell]

On Thu, 7 Aug 2003, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:

>
> On Thursday, August 7, 2003, at 02:06 PM, Aaron Bannert wrote:
>
> For example, could I veto the name 'XMLBean' by just posting to the
> members list?  I don't think so.

I'd like to -1 it. It should be XmlBean *start the usual Sun are useless
flame war*. :)



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Re: Updating the incubator site (Re: [geronimo] geronimo website)

[Paul Hammant]

Greg,

Paul -- please set your umask [on login] to enable group-write on the files
in /www/incubator.apache.org. It is making it very difficult for others to
update the site :-)
 

Will do.

-ph

--
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Home for many Agile practicing, Open Source activists...


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Re: [geronimo] Core Service Framework (Was: RE: Names & Projects)

[James Strachan]

On Wednesday, August 6, 2003, at 05:18  pm, J Aaron Farr wrote:

Quoting James Strachan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

On Wednesday, August 6, 2003, at 04:34  pm, J Aaron Farr wrote:

Quoting James Strachan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

To be certified Geronimo needs to fully support JMX. So the current
plan is to follow the Tomcat 5 & JBoss ideas to use MBeans to
register
& wire the services together. Whatever component model or libraries
a
particular service wishes to use is up to it I suppose, it shouldn't
really affect the core container.
So geronimo will be built on top of Tomcat 5?
Not quite - it'll use JMX & JNDI to bind services into the core
container (J2EE certified remember). Tomcat 4/5 will be one of those
services that plugs into Geronimo along with things like Jetty, tyrex,
openjms etc.


so the core container will be code developed from scratch within 
geronimo?  or
will it just an mbean server from mx4j?
The core container has already been developed - we should be able to 
put it somewhere (CVS / web) soon I hope. Then hopefully things will be 
a bit more clear.

A J2EE container is a little different from an Avalon container. Avalon 
is a generic service/component framework. The core Geronimo container 
is an optimised J2EE container developed from a great deal of 
experience and use of JBoss, OpenEJB & mx4j.  Its particularly geared 
towards EJB & MDBs.

Its not unlike saying, why have 2 web application frameworks (ducks the 
usual JSP v Velocity v JSF v Tapestry kinds of debates). Whilst in the 
same general ballpark they have quite different motivations & use cases 
which leads to different code bases if you want to do them well. Like 
most things the devils in the details. However once the codes put 
somewhere (soon I hope) you'll be able to take a look and judge for 
yourself.

Note like I said, there's no reason why you couldn't deploy an Avalon 
container inside Geronimo. So maybe a better way to look at this is you 
could embed Avalon into Geronimo if you wish - but for the foreseeable 
future the core container in Geronimo won't be based on Avalon itself.

Remember most of the work is in the services that drop into Geronimo - 
so if you're trying to spread the Avalon word - I'd focus on that if I 
were you.


Not to rant too much on the subject, but Avalon's containers (ie- 
Phoenix,
Merlin and Fortress) are designed to do just this.  JMX support exists 
and
there's been some work done on proper JNDI support.  You can already 
run Tomcat,
Jetty, OpenJMS and a host of other services within Avalon as it stands 
now.
I'm aware of that. Like I said - the devils in the details.

James
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Re: Geronimo

[Geir Magnusson Jr .]

On Tuesday, August 5, 2003, at 05:21 PM, Andreas Kuckartz wrote:

I am interested in helping out in any way possible

Watch this space :)
Are you sure that all these people subscribed to this mailing list?!
No, but I'm not going to answer them individually.  I'll just post this 
from time to time until things start really moving.

geir

Andreas

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Re: Updating the incubator site (Re: [geronimo] geronimo website)

[Greg Stein]

On Thu, Aug 07, 2003 at 04:04:39PM +0100, Paul Hammant wrote:
> > I've added a page documenting this.  When the site refreshes, it will
> > appear at:
> > 
> > http://incubator.apache.org/updating_docs.html
> 
> Site now updated.

Paul -- please set your umask [on login] to enable group-write on the files
in /www/incubator.apache.org. It is making it very difficult for others to
update the site :-)

Cheers,
-g

-- 
Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/

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Re: Geronimo: Sounds like some plans have already been made...

[Aaron Bannert]

On Wednesday, August 6, 2003, at 08:43  AM, Gareth Bryan wrote:
For those of us not in the know / new to ASF etc: Could someone from 
the
board post a message detailing what plans / discussions have already 
been
made?
Fortunately, very few decisions have been made (none that I can think 
of)
that can't be actively influenced by new participants. Everyone should
feel free to post their ideas.

-aaron

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Re: Geronimo is an EJB container?

[Jason Dillon]

The EJB container is NOT built in to JBoss... it is a set of services 
which plugin to the core.

--jason

On Thursday, August 7, 2003, at 02:21  AM, Aaron Mulder wrote:

	Maybe it's just me, but I thought it was a _weakness_ of JBoss
that the EJB container is "built in".  Why is Geronimo an extensible 
EJB
container, instead of a J2EE server framework that accepts a generic 
EJB
container as well as a generic servlet container, generic mail service,
etc?

Aaron

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Re: Geronimo mailing lists and CVS

[Greg Stein]

Hmm. I think somebody needs to update an rsync configuration file for that
(which requires root privs, which I don't have). I'll follow up on it,
thanks.

Cheers,
-g

On Thu, Aug 07, 2003 at 01:51:53PM +0530, Aditya Gore wrote:
> Will the module also be available via rsync?
> 
> 
> jean-frederic clere wrote:
> 
> >Greg Stein wrote:
> >
> >>Hi all,
> >>
> >>Two mailing lists have been set up for Apache Geronimo:
> >>
> >>[EMAIL PROTECTED]   -- general discussion list
> >>[EMAIL PROTECTED]   -- receives CVS commit emails
> >>
> >>These are standard EZMLM mailing lists. You can subscribe to them by 
> >>sending
> >>email to one/both of the following addresses:
> >>
> >>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>
> >>People interested in Geronimo should subscribe to the -dev list, as we 
> >>will
> >>begin shifting discussion over there.
> >>
> >>There are "mbox" style archives for these mailing lists stored at:
> >>
> >>http://incubator.apache.org/mail/
> >>
> >>Noel has also set up Eyebrowse for the two lists:
> >>
> >>http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/ViewLists
> >>
> >>
> >>The CVS module is:
> >>
> >>incubator-geronimo
> >>
> >>The initial committers are: gstein, geirm, jstrachan, ceki, jim. We 
> >>will add
> >>more committers once we receive confirmation that CLAs have been received
> >>(Jim, the ASF Secretary, is out of town this week).
> >>
> >>You can check out the CVS module with a command such as:
> >>
> >>$ cvs -d :pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/home/cvspublic co 
> >>incubator-geronimo
> >>Password: anoncvs
> >>
> >>The CVS module is available for web-based browsing at:
> >>
> >>http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs/incubator-geronimo/
> >
> >
> >And it is empty for the moment:
> >+++
> > > du -s /home/cvs/incubator-geronimo
> >2   /home/cvs/incubator-geronimo
> > > date
> >Thu Aug  7 01:07:04 PDT 2003
> >+++
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>I believe that is about it for now. Have fun!
> >>
> >>Cheers,
> >>-g
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >-
> >To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Updating the incubator site (Re: [geronimo] geronimo website)

[Geir Magnusson Jr .]

On Thursday, August 7, 2003, at 11:04 AM, Paul Hammant wrote:

I've added a page documenting this.  When the site refreshes, it will
appear at:
http://incubator.apache.org/updating_docs.html
Site now updated.
Thx - problem is, I didn't check in the html and pdf - I figured that  
you'd use forrest to regen.  Can it be done again?

-ph

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Re: Updating the incubator site (Re: [geronimo] geronimo website)

[Greg Stein]

On Thu, Aug 07, 2003 at 03:12:37PM -0700, Jeff Turner wrote:
>...
> > The instructions say that the PDFs will be regenerated, but that is
> > happening on my machine. Is there a missing component? Or a separate
> > command to run? Different config/param somewhere?
> 
> It's a bug in CVS Forrest's handling of 0.4-vintage sites, which I fixed
> last night.  Please 'cd xml-forrest; cvs update ; ./build.sh' 

That worked for me! Thanks, Jeff.

Cheers,
-g

-- 
Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/

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Re: Updating the incubator site (Re: [geronimo] geronimo website)

[Jeff Turner]

On Thu, Aug 07, 2003 at 02:04:36PM -0700, Greg Stein wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 08, 2003 at 12:45:21AM +1000, Jeff Turner wrote:
> > On Wed, Aug 06, 2003 at 03:28:44PM -0400, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
> > > I'd like to update the geronimo pages on the incubator site to provide 
> > > more info.  Can someone email me (privately if you wish) and let me 
> > > know how?
> > 
> > I've added a page documenting this.  When the site refreshes, it will
> > appear at:
> > 
> > http://incubator.apache.org/updating_docs.html
> 
> The instructions say that the PDFs will be regenerated, but that is
> happening on my machine. Is there a missing component? Or a separate
> command to run? Different config/param somewhere?

It's a bug in CVS Forrest's handling of 0.4-vintage sites, which I fixed
last night.  Please 'cd xml-forrest; cvs update ; ./build.sh' 

--Jeff

> 
> Cheers,
> -g
> 
> -- 
> Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/

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Re: Geronimo: Sounds like some plans have already been made...

[Geir Magnusson Jr .]

On Thursday, August 7, 2003, at 03:02 PM, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:

On Thursday, August 7, 2003, at 02:06 PM, Aaron Bannert wrote:

On Wednesday, August 6, 2003, at 08:51  AM, Henri Yandell wrote:

James/Geir need to create a PROPOSAL.html or some such.
To do this, they need CVS.
Post any files you want committed, or patches, and I or someone
with appropriate privs can commit them. Eventually we'll get sick
of committing all your contributions and give you direct access. :)


To get CVS, they need to get around the -1 on the name from Roy, or 
just
ignore him.

What are the incubator rules on -1's in this case? Is Roy's -1 
binding?
Yes, it is binding. Compromise with him or come up with another name.
If we're talking about his comment on the member's list, I don't 
understand why it's binding.  I respect it, agree with it, and 
certainly want to change the name too, but I don't understand why any 
post by a member can do that when there was no vote being taken.

For example, could I veto the name 'XMLBean' by just posting to the 
members list?  I don't think so.
I completely forgot the list I was posting to - information about posts 
on the members list is not for public distribution.  I hope you all 
understand.  I apologize to Roy and the entire ASF for this stupid 
mistake on my part.

This thread must stop here.

geir

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Re: Updating the incubator site (Re: [geronimo] geronimo website)

[Greg Stein]

On Fri, Aug 08, 2003 at 12:45:21AM +1000, Jeff Turner wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 06, 2003 at 03:28:44PM -0400, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
> > I'd like to update the geronimo pages on the incubator site to provide 
> > more info.  Can someone email me (privately if you wish) and let me 
> > know how?
> 
> I've added a page documenting this.  When the site refreshes, it will
> appear at:
> 
> http://incubator.apache.org/updating_docs.html

The instructions say that the PDFs will be regenerated, but that is
happening on my machine. Is there a missing component? Or a separate command
to run? Different config/param somewhere?

Cheers,
-g

-- 
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RE: [geronimo] Me, James and javaMail

[Noel J. Bergman]

> Obviously we will need a JavaMail implementation.

There is Classpathx, under GPL.  The James Project has looked into
sponsoring a JavaMail sub-project containing JavaMail.

> What I would like to see for a future release of Geronimo is
> an E-Mail Message Bean container. That is, a Message Bean that
> can process incoming e-mails.

You may wish to familarize yourself with the James Project.

Danny, who wrote the message to which you replied, is a James Committer, and
on the James PMC.

--- Noel


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RE: Geronimo is an EJB container?

[Noel J. Bergman]

> Why is Geronimo an extensible EJB container, instead of a J2EE
> server framework that accepts a generic EJB container as well
> as a generic servlet container, generic mail service, etc?

Hopefully, that is just phrasing.

--- Noel

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Re: [geronimo] Me, James and javaMail

[James Strachan]

On Wednesday, August 6, 2003, at 12:38  pm, Danny Angus wrote:

Hi,

Probably biting off more than I can chew here, I'm currently as busy 
as the
day is long :-(, but I'd be happy to look at implementing javaMail for
Geronimo.
Great stuff Danny. Lets all start chewing soon :)

James
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Re: [geronimo] Core Service Framework (Was: RE: Names & Projects)

[J Aaron Farr]

Quoting James Strachan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> 
> On Wednesday, August 6, 2003, at 04:34  pm, J Aaron Farr wrote:
> 
> > Quoting James Strachan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >
> >> To be certified Geronimo needs to fully support JMX. So the current
> >> plan is to follow the Tomcat 5 & JBoss ideas to use MBeans to
> register
> >> & wire the services together. Whatever component model or libraries
> a
> >> particular service wishes to use is up to it I suppose, it shouldn't
> >> really affect the core container.
> >>
> >
> > So geronimo will be built on top of Tomcat 5?
> 
> Not quite - it'll use JMX & JNDI to bind services into the core 
> container (J2EE certified remember). Tomcat 4/5 will be one of those 
> services that plugs into Geronimo along with things like Jetty, tyrex, 
> openjms etc.


so the core container will be code developed from scratch within geronimo?  or
will it just an mbean server from mx4j?

Not to rant too much on the subject, but Avalon's containers (ie- Phoenix,
Merlin and Fortress) are designed to do just this.  JMX support exists and
there's been some work done on proper JNDI support.  You can already run Tomcat,
Jetty, OpenJMS and a host of other services within Avalon as it stands now.  

> 
> > It seems a shame that we have an "Apache Server Framework" that will 
> > not be used
> > in the "Apache J2EE" implementation, at least at the container level.
> 
> Avalon could be used inside a service. Or indeed an Avalon container 
> could be deployed inside Geronimo as a service too.
> 
> Though I'm not yet sure of the value of Avalon inside the core EJB / 
> JMX container (which is the first thing to do)- which is already itself
> 
> a specialized kind of container. If you want Avalon to be used, I'd 
> focus on the services that we'll use inside Geronimo.  e.g. Tomcat - 
> try get them to use Avalon & see if it makes sense to them. Avalon's 
> not gonna suit everyone and every use case.
> 
> Remember there are a lot of different 'services frameworks' such as 
> JMX, Avalon, PicoContainer, Java Beans etc. The only one we absolutely 
> must support is JMX - so we'll focus on that first. However I see no 
> reason why Geronimo cannot have other kinds of containers dropped in as
> 
> services (Avalon, PicoContainer or whatever). From Geronmio's 
> perspective its just a bunch of MBeans.
> 
> James
> ---
> http://radio.weblogs.com/0112098/
> 
> 
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 jaaron  

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Re: [geronimo] Core Service Framework (Was: RE: Names & Projects)

[James Strachan]

On Wednesday, August 6, 2003, at 04:34  pm, J Aaron Farr wrote:

Quoting James Strachan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
To be certified Geronimo needs to fully support JMX. So the current
plan is to follow the Tomcat 5 & JBoss ideas to use MBeans to register
& wire the services together. Whatever component model or libraries a
particular service wishes to use is up to it I suppose, it shouldn't
really affect the core container.
So geronimo will be built on top of Tomcat 5?
Not quite - it'll use JMX & JNDI to bind services into the core 
container (J2EE certified remember). Tomcat 4/5 will be one of those 
services that plugs into Geronimo along with things like Jetty, tyrex, 
openjms etc.


It seems a shame that we have an "Apache Server Framework" that will 
not be used
in the "Apache J2EE" implementation, at least at the container level.
Avalon could be used inside a service. Or indeed an Avalon container 
could be deployed inside Geronimo as a service too.

Though I'm not yet sure of the value of Avalon inside the core EJB / 
JMX container (which is the first thing to do)- which is already itself 
a specialized kind of container. If you want Avalon to be used, I'd 
focus on the services that we'll use inside Geronimo.  e.g. Tomcat - 
try get them to use Avalon & see if it makes sense to them. Avalon's 
not gonna suit everyone and every use case.

Remember there are a lot of different 'services frameworks' such as 
JMX, Avalon, PicoContainer, Java Beans etc. The only one we absolutely 
must support is JMX - so we'll focus on that first. However I see no 
reason why Geronimo cannot have other kinds of containers dropped in as 
services (Avalon, PicoContainer or whatever). From Geronmio's 
perspective its just a bunch of MBeans.

James
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reusing OpenJMS [was Re: Geronimo]

[James Strachan]

Hi Tim

On Wednesday, August 6, 2003, at 03:56  am, Tim Anderson wrote:

I'm willing to help integrate OpenJMS -
I'm not in a position to donate the OpenJMS
codebase, and I'm not particularly interested
in forking it.
Integrating OpenJMS would be a great step forward. AFAIK for 
certification we can reuse the binaries of OpenJMS as part of Geronimo 
as its BSD licenced.

James
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Re: Geronimo

[Andreas Kuckartz]

> > I am interested in helping out in any way possible

> Watch this space :)

Are you sure that all these people subscribed to this mailing list?!

Andreas


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