Re: Slowness in farsi translation

[Claude Paroz]

Le samedi 05 juillet 2008 à 09:18 +0430, Mohammad Foroughi a écrit :
> On Thu, 2008-07-03 at 20:56 -0300, Leonardo F. Fontenelle wrote:
> > Em Qui, 2008-07-03 às 13:59 +0430, s.m ziaei escreveu:
> > > Hi all.
> > > We must all increase our endurance.
> > 
> > Usually I just discard the e-mails from this endless thread.
> > 
> > We must all stop fighting, and start working together.
> > 
> 
> Ok,
> 
> Shall I continue my translation? What is the fate of my previous
> translations? Shall I see the result of my work in gnome?

Yes, continue to translate and attach your work to bugzilla reports, so
as it won't get lost.

Claude

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Re: Slowness in farsi translation

[Mohammad Foroughi]

On Thu, 2008-07-03 at 20:56 -0300, Leonardo F. Fontenelle wrote:
> Em Qui, 2008-07-03 às 13:59 +0430, s.m ziaei escreveu:
> > Hi all.
> > We must all increase our endurance.
> 
> Usually I just discard the e-mails from this endless thread.
> 
> We must all stop fighting, and start working together.
> 

Ok,

Shall I continue my translation? What is the fate of my previous
translations? Shall I see the result of my work in gnome?

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Re: Slowness in farsi translation

[Leonardo F. Fontenelle]

Em Qui, 2008-07-03 às 13:59 +0430, s.m ziaei escreveu:
> Hi all.
> We must all increase our endurance.

Usually I just discard the e-mails from this endless thread.

We must all stop fighting, and start working together.

-- 
Leonardo Fontenelle
http://leonardof.org

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Re: Slowness in farsi translation

[s.m ziaei]

Hi all.
We must all increase our endurance.
There is no necessary to answer any contumely.
In this case taciturnity is the best choice to avoid conflict.
We must centralize our power and capability for good works.
Therefore I am waiting to see all volunteers work friendly.
Dear Roozbeh exert his translations please after technical review admitedly.

Excuse me Dear simon :
>This is an English-speaking mailing list.
>Ignoring the good intentions, it is rude to write in another language.

Write a sentence  with it's Translation is okay or not?
Because of some old sermon like that I told is from more than 1400 years ago
and their translations needs some experience.

Best regard
smz
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Re: Slowness in farsi translation

[Mohammad Foroughi]

On Wed, 2008-07-02 at 14:01 +0100, Simos Xenitellis wrote:
> O/H Abbas Esmaeeli Some'eh έγραψε:
> > On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 16:26:52 +0430
> > "s.m ziaei" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >   
> >> Imam Ali (AS) :
> >> Like your friend enough mayhap he will convert to your enemy
> >> And hate your enemy enough mayhap he will convert to your friend.
 <>> امام علی(ع( :
 <>> دوستت را به اندازه دوست بدار چه بسا روزی دشمنت گردد
 <>> و دشمنت را باندازه دشمن دار شاید روزی به دوست تو بدل گردد.
> >>
> >> 
> >
 <> بابا جمع کن این بساط نصیحت کردنت رو. اینجا لیست پستی گنوم هست، نه حوزه
 <> علمیه قم. یه هفته هست هی داری اسپم می‌فرستی به لیست.
> >   
> Dear S.M. and Abbas,
> 
> This is an English-speaking mailing list.
> Ignoring the good intentions, it is rude to write in another language.
> 
> Simos
> 

S.M Ziaei wrote an English sentence with it's Persian translation.

Abbas wrote a sarcastic sentence (in Persian) in answer of S.M Ziaei and
told him that he is an spammer!


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Re: Slowness in farsi translation

[Andre Klapper]

Am Mittwoch, den 02.07.2008, 17:49 +0430 schrieb Abbas Esmaeeli Some'eh:
> On Wed, 02 Jul 2008 14:01:17 +0100
> Simos Xenitellis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > Dear S.M. and Abbas,
> > 
> > This is an English-speaking mailing list.
> > Ignoring the good intentions, it is rude to write in another language.
> > 
> > Simos
> > 
> 
> Yes, you are right. Sorry non-Persian users, but I think I should
> answer him in Persian in this case.

If so, then please take this off-list. :)

In general I come to the feeling that the entire discussion could either
be ended (most things have been said and the positions and problems are
clear), or that it could be handled off-list between the people
interested/involved in translating gnome to farsi.

andre
-- 
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | failed
 http://www.iomc.de/  | http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper

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Re: Slowness in farsi translation

[Abbas Esmaeeli Some'eh]

On Wed, 02 Jul 2008 14:01:17 +0100
Simos Xenitellis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Dear S.M. and Abbas,
> 
> This is an English-speaking mailing list.
> Ignoring the good intentions, it is rude to write in another language.
> 
> Simos
> 

Yes, you are right. Sorry non-Persian users, but I think I should
answer him in Persian in this case.

Abbas
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Re: Slowness in farsi translation

[Simos Xenitellis]

O/H Abbas Esmaeeli Some'eh έγραψε:

On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 16:26:52 +0430
"s.m ziaei" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

  

Imam Ali (AS) :
Like your friend enough mayhap he will convert to your enemy
And hate your enemy enough mayhap he will convert to your friend.
امام علی(ع( :
دوستت را به اندازه دوست بدار چه بسا روزی دشمنت گردد
و دشمنت را باندازه دشمن دار شاید روزی به دوست تو بدل گردد.




بابا جمع کن این بساط نصیحت کردنت رو. اینجا لیست پستی گنوم هست، نه حوزه
علمیه قم. یه هفته هست هی داری اسپم می‌فرستی به لیست.
  

Dear S.M. and Abbas,

This is an English-speaking mailing list.
Ignoring the good intentions, it is rude to write in another language.

Simos

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Re: Slowness in farsi translation

[Abbas Esmaeeli Some'eh]

On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 16:26:52 +0430
"s.m ziaei" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Imam Ali (AS) :
> Like your friend enough mayhap he will convert to your enemy
> And hate your enemy enough mayhap he will convert to your friend.
> امام علی(ع( :
> دوستت را به اندازه دوست بدار چه بسا روزی دشمنت گردد
> و دشمنت را باندازه دشمن دار شاید روزی به دوست تو بدل گردد.
> 

بابا جمع کن این بساط نصیحت کردنت رو. اینجا لیست پستی گنوم هست، نه حوزه
علمیه قم. یه هفته هست هی داری اسپم می‌فرستی به لیست.
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Re: Slowness in farsi translation

[s.m ziaei]

Imam Ali (AS) :
Like your friend enough mayhap he will convert to your enemy
And hate your enemy enough mayhap he will convert to your friend.
امام علی(ع( :
دوستت را به اندازه دوست بدار چه بسا روزی دشمنت گردد
و دشمنت را باندازه دشمن دار شاید روزی به دوست تو بدل گردد.

On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 10:44 AM, Mohammad Foroughi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Tue, 2008-07-01 at 21:27 +0100, Simos Xenitellis wrote:
> > O/H Tomas Kuliavas έγραψε:
> > >>> If Sharif Linux is 100%
> > >>> translated, it can't be explained by limited number of packages and
> > >>> Linux
> > >>> distribution differences unless Persian Gnome 2.10 translation was
> close
> > >>> to 100% and it degraded to 74% in 2.14 due to lots of changes in
> > >>> translations. I don't think that translation can lose 25% of strings
> in
> > >>> just two major Gnome releases.
> > >>>
> > >> I don't understand this line of reasoning at all. Please explain.
> > >> Where did you get your numbers from? What do you think happened?
> > >>
> > >
> > > http://l10n.gnome.org/languages/fa UI stats
> > >
> > > Gnome 2.14 - 74%
> > > Gnome 2.16 - 74%
> > > Gnome 2.18 - 68%
> > > Gnome 2.20 - 63%
> > > Gnome 2.22 - 55%
> > > Gnome 2.24-dev - 51%
> > >
> > > Sarif Linux is some customized redhat/fedora based distribution. It
> uses
> > > Gnome 2.10. I don't have information about standard Gnome 2.10 UI Farsi
> > > translation stats. Screenshots look fully translated.
> > >
> > Tomas, it is important to include the lines such as "On , PersonA
> > wrote:".
> > Reading above, I have to search through the e-mail to figure out who are
> > the two people you quote.
> >
> > In order to get a distribution fully translated, you do not need to have
> > a 100% translation at the GNOME stats. GNOME includes packages that may
> > or may not be included in a distribution. I think it has already been
> > explained. Therefore, there should be no conspiracy with a 25% fall
> > between 2.10 to 2.14.
> >
> > I think Christian captured the debate in his e-mail very well, and it
> > looks that this is where we stand.
> >
> > Reading the most recent e-mail by Mohammad, I see that he is still
> > maintaining an aggressive stance.
> > I would suggest that if he apologises, post the translations to Bugzilla
> > (like Zabeeh did), things might move on.
> > I am skeptical that such a change of behaviour can occur, however I wish
> > I am proven wrong.
> >
> > Andre, in an earlier e-mail reminded us of the GNOME Code of Conduct,
> > http://live.gnome.org/CodeOfConduct
> >
> > I copy a part of it:
> >
> > * Be respectful and considerate:
> >   o Disagreement is no excuse for poor behaviour or personal
> > attacks. Remember that a community where people feel
> > uncomfortable is not a productive one.
> >
> >
> >   Applies to
> >
> > *
> >
> >   GNOME Bugzilla 
> >
> > *
> >
> >   GNOME mailing lists 
> >
> >   o Individuals who signed at
> > http://live.gnome.org/CodeOfConduct/Signatures
> >
> > A step to the right direction would be to sign up on
> > http://live.gnome.org/CodeOfConduct/Signatures and show explicitly that
> > we abide by the GNOME Code of Conduct.
> >
>
>
> My goal is to help to my language, If you think speaking softly can
> help: I'll change my treatment.
>
> To prove that, I'll sign http://live.gnome.org/CodeOfConduct/Signatures
>
> How can I sign that?
>
> I must login? Where I can signup?
>
>
> > Simos
> > ___
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Re: Slowness in farsi translation

[Mohammad Foroughi]

On Sat, 2008-06-28 at 10:03 +0430, s.m ziaei wrote:
> Whats the problem ?
> I didn't see any except that for a long time i see many untranslated
> words in the forehead of gnome (its desktop and menu)
> that can be solved very easy; But I didn't understand why didn't this
> simple problem solve for few years.
> I made a very simple path for myself and run it in each distribution
> of gnome.
> Probably coordinators only use gnome in English and aren't interested
> to use it in the language that they are its coordinator.

How many coordinators use their language in their desktop?

> therefore untranslated words isn't important for them.
> or maybe they are vary hardscrabble.
> howsoever I am fond to continue working on all of localization
> projects in gnome such as translation and localization specially for
> calendar.
> 
> 
> On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 12:50 PM, Olav Vitters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 09:29:21AM +0430, Alireza Hesabi
> wrote:
> > Roozbeh: You are just a nasty fascist. Your only prominence
> is that you was
> > the first one who got coordination of fa.
> 
> 
> This is not appropriate language for ANY mailing list on
> @gnome.org.
> Take this off list.
> 
> See also http://live.gnome.org/CodeOfConduct for more
> constructive ways
> of communicating. This to avoid a backfire.
> 
> --
> Regards,
> Olav
> 
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Re: Slowness in farsi translation

[Mohammad Foroughi]

On Tue, 2008-07-01 at 21:27 +0100, Simos Xenitellis wrote:
> O/H Tomas Kuliavas έγραψε:
> >>> If Sharif Linux is 100%
> >>> translated, it can't be explained by limited number of packages and
> >>> Linux
> >>> distribution differences unless Persian Gnome 2.10 translation was close
> >>> to 100% and it degraded to 74% in 2.14 due to lots of changes in
> >>> translations. I don't think that translation can lose 25% of strings in
> >>> just two major Gnome releases.
> >>>   
> >> I don't understand this line of reasoning at all. Please explain.
> >> Where did you get your numbers from? What do you think happened?
> >> 
> >
> > http://l10n.gnome.org/languages/fa UI stats
> >
> > Gnome 2.14 - 74%
> > Gnome 2.16 - 74%
> > Gnome 2.18 - 68%
> > Gnome 2.20 - 63%
> > Gnome 2.22 - 55%
> > Gnome 2.24-dev - 51%
> >
> > Sarif Linux is some customized redhat/fedora based distribution. It uses
> > Gnome 2.10. I don't have information about standard Gnome 2.10 UI Farsi
> > translation stats. Screenshots look fully translated.
> >   
> Tomas, it is important to include the lines such as "On , PersonA 
> wrote:".
> Reading above, I have to search through the e-mail to figure out who are 
> the two people you quote.
> 
> In order to get a distribution fully translated, you do not need to have 
> a 100% translation at the GNOME stats. GNOME includes packages that may 
> or may not be included in a distribution. I think it has already been 
> explained. Therefore, there should be no conspiracy with a 25% fall 
> between 2.10 to 2.14.
> 
> I think Christian captured the debate in his e-mail very well, and it 
> looks that this is where we stand.
> 
> Reading the most recent e-mail by Mohammad, I see that he is still 
> maintaining an aggressive stance.
> I would suggest that if he apologises, post the translations to Bugzilla 
> (like Zabeeh did), things might move on.
> I am skeptical that such a change of behaviour can occur, however I wish 
> I am proven wrong.
> 
> Andre, in an earlier e-mail reminded us of the GNOME Code of Conduct,
> http://live.gnome.org/CodeOfConduct
> 
> I copy a part of it:
> 
> * Be respectful and considerate:
>   o Disagreement is no excuse for poor behaviour or personal
> attacks. Remember that a community where people feel
> uncomfortable is not a productive one.
> 
> 
>   Applies to
> 
> *
> 
>   GNOME Bugzilla 
> 
> *
> 
>   GNOME mailing lists 
> 
>   o Individuals who signed at
> http://live.gnome.org/CodeOfConduct/Signatures
> 
> A step to the right direction would be to sign up on 
> http://live.gnome.org/CodeOfConduct/Signatures and show explicitly that 
> we abide by the GNOME Code of Conduct.
> 


My goal is to help to my language, If you think speaking softly can
help: I'll change my treatment.

To prove that, I'll sign http://live.gnome.org/CodeOfConduct/Signatures

How can I sign that?

I must login? Where I can signup?


> Simos
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Re: Slowness in farsi translation

[Roozbeh Pournader]

On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 12:20 PM, Tomas Kuliavas
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Gnome 2.14 - 74%
> [...]
>
> Sarif Linux is some customized redhat/fedora based distribution. It uses
> Gnome 2.10. I don't have information about standard Gnome 2.10 UI Farsi
> translation stats. Screenshots look fully translated.

Sharif Linux fully translated does not translate to GNOME fully
translated. I don't have a list of Sharif Linux packages at hand, but
some parts of GNOME was not included in Sharif Linux, and some parts
of Sharif Linux was not translated to Persian. I guess the actual
number for GNOME 2.12 was a tiny bit above 80%. I also think GNOME
2.14 had a few new applications added. So the change is understandable
for a team suddenly losing lots of its contributors.

Roozbeh
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Re: Slowness in farsi translation

[Simos Xenitellis]

O/H Tomas Kuliavas έγραψε:

If Sharif Linux is 100%
translated, it can't be explained by limited number of packages and
Linux
distribution differences unless Persian Gnome 2.10 translation was close
to 100% and it degraded to 74% in 2.14 due to lots of changes in
translations. I don't think that translation can lose 25% of strings in
just two major Gnome releases.
  

I don't understand this line of reasoning at all. Please explain.
Where did you get your numbers from? What do you think happened?



http://l10n.gnome.org/languages/fa UI stats

Gnome 2.14 - 74%
Gnome 2.16 - 74%
Gnome 2.18 - 68%
Gnome 2.20 - 63%
Gnome 2.22 - 55%
Gnome 2.24-dev - 51%

Sarif Linux is some customized redhat/fedora based distribution. It uses
Gnome 2.10. I don't have information about standard Gnome 2.10 UI Farsi
translation stats. Screenshots look fully translated.
  
Tomas, it is important to include the lines such as "On , PersonA 
wrote:".
Reading above, I have to search through the e-mail to figure out who are 
the two people you quote.


In order to get a distribution fully translated, you do not need to have 
a 100% translation at the GNOME stats. GNOME includes packages that may 
or may not be included in a distribution. I think it has already been 
explained. Therefore, there should be no conspiracy with a 25% fall 
between 2.10 to 2.14.


I think Christian captured the debate in his e-mail very well, and it 
looks that this is where we stand.


Reading the most recent e-mail by Mohammad, I see that he is still 
maintaining an aggressive stance.
I would suggest that if he apologises, post the translations to Bugzilla 
(like Zabeeh did), things might move on.
I am skeptical that such a change of behaviour can occur, however I wish 
I am proven wrong.


Andre, in an earlier e-mail reminded us of the GNOME Code of Conduct,
http://live.gnome.org/CodeOfConduct

I copy a part of it:

   * Be respectful and considerate:
 o Disagreement is no excuse for poor behaviour or personal
   attacks. Remember that a community where people feel
   uncomfortable is not a productive one.


 Applies to

   *

 GNOME Bugzilla 

   *

 GNOME mailing lists 

 o Individuals who signed at
   http://live.gnome.org/CodeOfConduct/Signatures

A step to the right direction would be to sign up on 
http://live.gnome.org/CodeOfConduct/Signatures and show explicitly that 
we abide by the GNOME Code of Conduct.


Simos
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Re: Slowness in farsi translation

[Khaled Hosny]

On Tue, Jul 01, 2008 at 10:20:08PM +0300, Tomas Kuliavas wrote:
> >> If Sharif Linux is 100%
> >> translated, it can't be explained by limited number of packages and
> >> Linux
> >> distribution differences unless Persian Gnome 2.10 translation was close
> >> to 100% and it degraded to 74% in 2.14 due to lots of changes in
> >> translations. I don't think that translation can lose 25% of strings in
> >> just two major Gnome releases.
> >
> > I don't understand this line of reasoning at all. Please explain.
> > Where did you get your numbers from? What do you think happened?
> 
> http://l10n.gnome.org/languages/fa UI stats
> 
> Gnome 2.14 - 74%
> Gnome 2.16 - 74%
> Gnome 2.18 - 68%
> Gnome 2.20 - 63%
> Gnome 2.22 - 55%
> Gnome 2.24-dev - 51%

This pretty normal course, as the translation got less contribution with
time, not the sudden suspicious drop that you were suggesting.

> 
> Sarif Linux is some customized redhat/fedora based distribution. It uses
> Gnome 2.10. I don't have information about standard Gnome 2.10 UI Farsi
> translation stats. Screenshots look fully translated.

The screenshots don't tell much here, if I'm careful enough, I can make
an 80% translated gnome look almost translated by setting perioroties
and ignoring less visible strings (command line help messages, all those
.schemas strings and such). 
The point is that spreading talks like this, which some might even see
it as mere FUD, and accusing people based on mere imaginations illogical
conclusions doesn't make a healthy environment at all.

Regards,
 Khaled


> 
> -- 
> Tomas
> 
> 
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-- 
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 Arabic localizer and member of Arabeyes.org team


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Re: Slowness in farsi translation

[Tomas Kuliavas]

>> If Sharif Linux is 100%
>> translated, it can't be explained by limited number of packages and
>> Linux
>> distribution differences unless Persian Gnome 2.10 translation was close
>> to 100% and it degraded to 74% in 2.14 due to lots of changes in
>> translations. I don't think that translation can lose 25% of strings in
>> just two major Gnome releases.
>
> I don't understand this line of reasoning at all. Please explain.
> Where did you get your numbers from? What do you think happened?

http://l10n.gnome.org/languages/fa UI stats

Gnome 2.14 - 74%
Gnome 2.16 - 74%
Gnome 2.18 - 68%
Gnome 2.20 - 63%
Gnome 2.22 - 55%
Gnome 2.24-dev - 51%

Sarif Linux is some customized redhat/fedora based distribution. It uses
Gnome 2.10. I don't have information about standard Gnome 2.10 UI Farsi
translation stats. Screenshots look fully translated.

-- 
Tomas


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Re: Slowness in farsi translation

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On Tue, 2008-07-01 at 11:48 -0700, Roozbeh Pournader wrote:

> > If Sharif Linux is 100%
> > translated, it can't be explained by limited number of packages and Linux
> > distribution differences unless Persian Gnome 2.10 translation was close
> > to 100% and it degraded to 74% in 2.14 due to lots of changes in
> > translations. I don't think that translation can lose 25% of strings in
> > just two major Gnome releases.
> 
> I don't understand this line of reasoning at all. Please explain.
> Where did you get your numbers from? What do you think happened?

I never ran Sharif Linux, so I don't even know how the translations
there look like, but I'm sure what has happened is:

  - FarsiWeb translated GNOME circa 2.14 to over 80% at which point
Persian was marked "supported" in GNOME.  FarsiWeb also released Sharif
Linux based on that.  As one expects from a Linux distribution of a
minimum quality control, Sharif Linux's default desktop was fully
translated.

  - FarsiWeb then moved resources out of translation work, that resulted
in Persian stats going down over two or more release cycle to the
seventy-something that they stand now.

  - Ubuntu shipped GNOME, but then changed some words, namely, the
infamous menu name change from whatever it was in upstream GNOME to
"System".  That showed up untranslated in the Persian desktop.


I find the whole idea of attacking the GNOME Persian translation team
based on quality of Persian support shipped on a distro like Ubuntu
which is notorious for making upstream-unhappy changes quite ridiculous.
Moreover, Sharif Linux is a Free Software distro.  Anyone in Iran can
buy it for a modest price and request the source code, blah blah.

To summarize:
All conspiracy theories and no code makes for an unhealthy way to
collaborate.


-- 
behdad
http://behdad.org/

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little
 Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759

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Re: Slowness in farsi translation

[Roozbeh Pournader]

On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 11:48 AM, Roozbeh Pournader <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 11:21 PM, Tomas Kuliavas
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Mohammad thinks that translation is mismanaged and coordinator spends more
>> time on own proprietary Linux distribution.
>
> I don't have a proprietary Linux distribution. I do not work for the
> company that I

Oops. I meant to say: [...] I do not work for the company that
produces Sharif Linux anymore.

Roozbeh
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Re: Slowness in farsi translation

[Roozbeh Pournader]

On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 11:21 PM, Tomas Kuliavas
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Mohammad thinks that translation is mismanaged and coordinator spends more
> time on own proprietary Linux distribution.

I don't have a proprietary Linux distribution. I do not work for the
company that I

> Roozbeh does not like Mohammad and delays commits of his updates to gnome
> repository.

That's not true. I do not know Mohammad, so I can not even say if I
like him or not. It is simply that he has been attacking me both here
and some Persian forum, and I find it very hard to work with a person
who is attacking me at the same time.

> If Sharif Linux is 100%
> translated, it can't be explained by limited number of packages and Linux
> distribution differences unless Persian Gnome 2.10 translation was close
> to 100% and it degraded to 74% in 2.14 due to lots of changes in
> translations. I don't think that translation can lose 25% of strings in
> just two major Gnome releases.

I don't understand this line of reasoning at all. Please explain.
Where did you get your numbers from? What do you think happened?

Roozbeh
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Re: Slowness in farsi translation

[Christian Rose]

On 6/30/08, Alireza Hesabi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Why coordinator delays posting Mohammad's translations?

I can't speak for anyone besides myself, but I can tell you that I,
like most other contributors, do this on my free time. If some new
contributor starts showing up and behaves good, I will very likely
respond to him or her sooner than perhaps some other new contributor
that behaves badly. The latter person I will most likely even ignore
-- I'm not paid to take crap from noone on my spare time.
I know this is true for many more people than me, so like most free
software projects it's definately not a "first come first serve"
community. It's more of a "come and behave well, and you'll be treated
well" community.

I don't know if this is what happened in this case, and only the
coordinator can answer that question. I'm just offering a possible
explanation. It's just speculation: it may be true, it may be false.


Christian
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Re: Slowness in farsi translation

[s.m ziaei]

Dear friends.We all are educated.
why you don't work together?
At first I expect all of you to calm down  yourselves.
Then decide to continue contribution and forget  controversial discussions.

me :
>Whats the problem ?
>I didn't see any except that for a long time i see many untranslated words
in the forehead of gnome (its >desktop and menu)
>that can be solved very easy; But I didn't understand why didn't this
simple problem solve for few years.
>I made a very simple patch for myself and run it in each distribution of
gnome.
>Probably coordinators only use gnome in English and aren't interested to
use it in the language that they are >its coordinator.

ّI found Mohammad's web site from his email address.(I wonder What is 417?)
Howsoever I tested his PO files from
http://417.ir/dl/farsisaz-ubuntu-8.04.tar.gz
and  saw some of my bothersome problems in gnome desktop specially an old
buggy sting in the main menu
"شبکهتمام پرونده‌های قابل اجرا در این پوشه در منوی کدنوشته‌ها دیده می‌شوند"
that made gnome desktop very ungainly and bothered me, was solved.
His work is thankworthy, but he shouldn't behave badly and angrily without
any control like that.
All of us must be learn that tolerate each other and more important work
together.
And let every one to help us even whom don't like his treatment.
I ask coordinators to submit his translation ( sure after review ).
but we shouldn't defer anyone contribution due to personal conflicts.
thanks
smz
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Re: Slowness in farsi translation

[s.m. ziaei]

Dear friends.We all are educated.
why you don't work together?
At first I expect all of you to calm down  yourselves.
Then decide to continue contribution and forget  controversial discussions.

>Whats the problem ?
>I
didn't see any except that for a long time i see many untranslated
words in the forehead of gnome (its desktop and menu)
>that can be solved very easy; But I didn't understand why didn't this simple 
>problem solve for few years.

>I made a very simple patch for myself and run it in each distribution of gnome.
>Probably
coordinators only use gnome in English and aren't interested to use it
in the language that they are its coordinator.

ّI found Mohammad's web site from his email address.(I wonder What is 417?)
Howsoever I tested his PO files from 
http://417.ir/dl/farsisaz-ubuntu-8.04.tar.gz
and  saw some of my bothersome problems in gnome desktop specially an old buggy 
sting in the main menu
"شبکهتمام پرونده‌های قابل اجرا در این پوشه در منوی کدنوشته‌ها دیده می‌شوند" 
that made gnome desktop very ungainly and bothered me, was solved.
His work is thankworthy, but he shouldn't behave badly and angrily without any 
control like that.
All of us must be learn that tolerate each other and more important work 
together.
And let every one to help us even whom don't like his treatment.
I ask coordinators to submit his translation ( sure after review ).
but we shouldn't defer anyone contribution due to personal conflicts.
thanks


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Re: Slowness in farsi translation

[Alireza Hesabi]

Why coordinator delays posting Mohammad's translations?



On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 4:43 PM, Christian Rose <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On 6/26/08, Mohammad Foroughi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Mr. Hesabi:
> >
> >   Roozbeh Pournader has made a significant contribution to persian
> >  translation, farsi fonts, and fribidi and many other projects.
>
> Yes.
>
>
> >   He was active till 2006, but I do not know why he become inactive
> >  during 2006-2008:
> >
> >  http://tinyurl.com/4o2p5x
>
> Well, a Google search for mailing list traffic has little evidence
> value. A person can be a good contributor and commit lots of stuff to
> SVN and be active on other forums, without it ever showing up as
> activity on another given mailing list.
>
>
> >  He just become re-active by my emails to the list.
> >
> >  But it seems that he is very monopolist, and do not let others to join
> >  his team. He think that gnome is his father's inheritance, and he and
> >  his guys are representation of All Iranians In The World!!!
>
> So far all communication I have seen from Roozbeh and Behdad and
> others has been positive in regards of wanting to accept new
> volunteers. From what I can see, there's nothing stopping you or
> others from joining the existing Persian team.
>
>
> >  I wanna know how many hands he have?
> >
> >  Can a person manage all these:
> >
> >  Developer on FriBiDi
> >   * Contributor on Fedora Project
> >   * Contributor on Pango
> >   * Contributor on GNOME i18n Project
> >   * Contributor on Translation Project
> >   * Contributor on GNOME
> >   * Contributor on GTK+
> >   * Contributor on Mozilla
> >   * Contributor on Evolution
> >   * Contributor on FarsiTeX
> >   * Lead Developer on Sharif Linux
> >
> >  http://www.advogato.org/person/roozbeh/
>
> A static Advogato page says little to nothing about a person's current
> activities. One can be a frequent contributor to one project one year,
> and spend one's contributions on another project the next year. An
> Advogato page tells you nothing of the sort, apart from possibly some
> selected historic contributions.
>
>
> >  This causes that all things are blocked and in domination of a single
> >  group.
> >
> >  It is better to take coordination from him and give it to an
> >  organization in iran, and that organization decide he DESERVES
> >  coordination?
>
> Coordinatorship is given to *individuals*, never to companies nor
> other organisations. You can be an employee of any company or a member
> of any organisation you like, but your contributions and duties will
> always reflect on you as an individual. If person X is a coordinator
> and at the same time an employee for company Y, it is still X who is a
> coordinator. Company Y has, for all purposes, nothing to do with it,
> other than perhaps paying the salary for X. If X decides to leave
> company Y and instead join organization Z, or no organization at all,
> we wouldn't care less. It is still X who is coordinator.
>
>
> >  Roozbeh says that I do not deserve attention,
> >
> >  I SAY that HE DO NOT DESERVE COORDINATION?
> >
> >  Witch one is true?
> >
> >  How you can decide?
> >
> >  Can gnome boys that are not Native persian Speakers decide?
> >
> >  No, iranians should deciude?
>
> Yes, we can decide. GNOME is no different than most other free
> software projects. Almost everything is based on trust, respect and
> merits (contributions).
> If a person has been a long time contributor and active in the
> community for a long time, he naturally has earned some respect and
> trust. If he has been contributing a lot, the contributions tell that
> this person is contributing for real and not just producing words.
>
> If another new person starts showing up, and instead of showing merits
> (contributions) just produce flames, rants, insults, personal attacks
> and accusations and generally behaving rude on a mailing list, we
> would have the other end of the scale -- a person that cannot be
> trusted and is worthy of no respect.
>
> That being said, of course persons that speak Persian are in general
> in a *much* better position to judge on translation quality and the
> quality of contributions. That's why we defer to the teams to review
> the translations. But when it comes to judging the amount of
> contributions and people's general attitude, and who do we trust more,
> we certainly can decide for ourselves.
>
>
> >  I propose, you (gnome founders and admins) make an email to an Iranian
> >  institute that is responsible for translation (or similar things) and
> >  aks them: "If roozbeh is a competent person?" Or make a connection to
> >  sharif university and ask them about roozbeh.
> >
> >  I strongly insist that roozbeh and his team must change and the new team
> >  coordination should be given to an institute instead of a single person.
>
> As I said, coordinatorship is never given to an organization, it is
> given to an individual. That's how ou

Re: Slowness in farsi translation

[Christian Rose]

On 6/26/08, Mohammad Foroughi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Mr. Hesabi:
>
>   Roozbeh Pournader has made a significant contribution to persian
>  translation, farsi fonts, and fribidi and many other projects.

Yes.


>   He was active till 2006, but I do not know why he become inactive
>  during 2006-2008:
>
>  http://tinyurl.com/4o2p5x

Well, a Google search for mailing list traffic has little evidence
value. A person can be a good contributor and commit lots of stuff to
SVN and be active on other forums, without it ever showing up as
activity on another given mailing list.


>  He just become re-active by my emails to the list.
>
>  But it seems that he is very monopolist, and do not let others to join
>  his team. He think that gnome is his father's inheritance, and he and
>  his guys are representation of All Iranians In The World!!!

So far all communication I have seen from Roozbeh and Behdad and
others has been positive in regards of wanting to accept new
volunteers. From what I can see, there's nothing stopping you or
others from joining the existing Persian team.


>  I wanna know how many hands he have?
>
>  Can a person manage all these:
>
>  Developer on FriBiDi
>   * Contributor on Fedora Project
>   * Contributor on Pango
>   * Contributor on GNOME i18n Project
>   * Contributor on Translation Project
>   * Contributor on GNOME
>   * Contributor on GTK+
>   * Contributor on Mozilla
>   * Contributor on Evolution
>   * Contributor on FarsiTeX
>   * Lead Developer on Sharif Linux
>
>  http://www.advogato.org/person/roozbeh/

A static Advogato page says little to nothing about a person's current
activities. One can be a frequent contributor to one project one year,
and spend one's contributions on another project the next year. An
Advogato page tells you nothing of the sort, apart from possibly some
selected historic contributions.


>  This causes that all things are blocked and in domination of a single
>  group.
>
>  It is better to take coordination from him and give it to an
>  organization in iran, and that organization decide he DESERVES
>  coordination?

Coordinatorship is given to *individuals*, never to companies nor
other organisations. You can be an employee of any company or a member
of any organisation you like, but your contributions and duties will
always reflect on you as an individual. If person X is a coordinator
and at the same time an employee for company Y, it is still X who is a
coordinator. Company Y has, for all purposes, nothing to do with it,
other than perhaps paying the salary for X. If X decides to leave
company Y and instead join organization Z, or no organization at all,
we wouldn't care less. It is still X who is coordinator.


>  Roozbeh says that I do not deserve attention,
>
>  I SAY that HE DO NOT DESERVE COORDINATION?
>
>  Witch one is true?
>
>  How you can decide?
>
>  Can gnome boys that are not Native persian Speakers decide?
>
>  No, iranians should deciude?

Yes, we can decide. GNOME is no different than most other free
software projects. Almost everything is based on trust, respect and
merits (contributions).
If a person has been a long time contributor and active in the
community for a long time, he naturally has earned some respect and
trust. If he has been contributing a lot, the contributions tell that
this person is contributing for real and not just producing words.

If another new person starts showing up, and instead of showing merits
(contributions) just produce flames, rants, insults, personal attacks
and accusations and generally behaving rude on a mailing list, we
would have the other end of the scale -- a person that cannot be
trusted and is worthy of no respect.

That being said, of course persons that speak Persian are in general
in a *much* better position to judge on translation quality and the
quality of contributions. That's why we defer to the teams to review
the translations. But when it comes to judging the amount of
contributions and people's general attitude, and who do we trust more,
we certainly can decide for ourselves.


>  I propose, you (gnome founders and admins) make an email to an Iranian
>  institute that is responsible for translation (or similar things) and
>  aks them: "If roozbeh is a competent person?" Or make a connection to
>  sharif university and ask them about roozbeh.
>
>  I strongly insist that roozbeh and his team must change and the new team
>  coordination should be given to an institute instead of a single person.

As I said, coordinatorship is never given to an organization, it is
given to an individual. That's how our community works.


>  this way, an arrogant person can not play with a nation's benefits.

Calling a person "arrogant" is not exactly the way to move forward.


Christian
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Re: Slowness in farsi translation

[Tomas Kuliavas]

There is a personal conflict.

Mohammad thinks that translation is mismanaged and coordinator spends more
time on own proprietary Linux distribution.

Roozbeh does not like Mohammad and delays commits of his updates to gnome
repository. If I remember mailing list history correctly, Mohammad tried
to take over Roozbeh's position from the start.

With Persian translation status degrading with every Gnome release it is
very easy to understand frustration of Mohammad. If Sharif Linux is 100%
translated, it can't be explained by limited number of packages and Linux
distribution differences unless Persian Gnome 2.10 translation was close
to 100% and it degraded to 74% in 2.14 due to lots of changes in
translations. I don't think that translation can lose 25% of strings in
just two major Gnome releases.

Mohammad is Ubuntu user and he has a way of accomplishing his goals and
circumventing controls of Roozbeh. Once Mohammad finds the way and start
actively using it instead of Gnome bugzilla, Gnome might lose Persian
translator and conflict between Ubuntu packagers and Gnome will worsen.

If you want to resolve the conflict, evaluate progress of Gnome Persian
translation. Check translation commits in software repository. Then decide
who is right. Persian translators must resolve their conflicts or Gnome
Persian translation will split between two teams.


> Whats the problem ?
> I didn't see any except that for a long time i see many untranslated words
> in the forehead of gnome (its desktop and menu)
> that can be solved very easy; But I didn't understand why didn't this
> simple
> problem solve for few years.
> I made a very simple path for myself and run it in each distribution of
> gnome.
> Probably coordinators only use gnome in English and aren't interested to
> use
> it in the language that they are its coordinator.
> therefore untranslated words isn't important for them.
> or maybe they are vary hardscrabble.
> howsoever I am fond to continue working on all of localization projects in
> gnome such as translation and localization specially for calendar.
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 12:50 PM, Olav Vitters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 09:29:21AM +0430, Alireza Hesabi wrote:
>> > Roozbeh: You are just a nasty fascist. Your only prominence is that
>> you
>> was
>> > the first one who got coordination of fa.
>>
>> This is not appropriate language for ANY mailing list on @gnome.org.
>> Take this off list.
>>
>> See also http://live.gnome.org/CodeOfConduct for more constructive ways
>> of communicating. This to avoid a backfire.
>>
>> --
>> Regards,
>> Olav
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Re: Slowness in farsi translation

[s.m ziaei]

Whats the problem ?
I didn't see any except that for a long time i see many untranslated words
in the forehead of gnome (its desktop and menu)
that can be solved very easy; But I didn't understand why didn't this simple
problem solve for few years.
I made a very simple path for myself and run it in each distribution of
gnome.
Probably coordinators only use gnome in English and aren't interested to use
it in the language that they are its coordinator.
therefore untranslated words isn't important for them.
or maybe they are vary hardscrabble.
howsoever I am fond to continue working on all of localization projects in
gnome such as translation and localization specially for calendar.


On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 12:50 PM, Olav Vitters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 09:29:21AM +0430, Alireza Hesabi wrote:
> > Roozbeh: You are just a nasty fascist. Your only prominence is that you
> was
> > the first one who got coordination of fa.
>
> This is not appropriate language for ANY mailing list on @gnome.org.
> Take this off list.
>
> See also http://live.gnome.org/CodeOfConduct for more constructive ways
> of communicating. This to avoid a backfire.
>
> --
> Regards,
> Olav
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Re: Slowness in farsi translation

[Olav Vitters]

On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 09:29:21AM +0430, Alireza Hesabi wrote:
> Roozbeh: You are just a nasty fascist. Your only prominence is that you was
> the first one who got coordination of fa.

This is not appropriate language for ANY mailing list on @gnome.org.
Take this off list.

See also http://live.gnome.org/CodeOfConduct for more constructive ways
of communicating. This to avoid a backfire.

-- 
Regards,
Olav
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Re: Slowness in farsi translation

[Ihar Hrachyshka]

2008/6/26 Alireza Hesabi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Do you remember problems that roozbeh made during sep. 2005?
>
> Fights for coordination?
>
> Fights for removing a line of copyright?
>
> disallowing vulenteers to help?
>
> And this is a link (you love links!):
>
> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-i18n/2005-September/msg00264.html

I read carefully the email on the link and I don't see a point of some
'weirdness' in Roozbeh actions.
Can you suggest me what you don't like in it?..

>
> And the link for 2 years of inactivity: [EMAIL PROTECTED] have a link in his 
> mail...
>
> 2008/6/26 Ihar Hrachyshka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>>
>> 2008/6/26 Mohammad Foroughi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>> > I strongly insist that roozbeh and his team must change and the new team
>> > coordination should be given to an institute instead of a single person.
>>
>> Does the institute contribute to gnome farsi translation? Is there a
>> significant problem on committing the contributions to SVN? How long
>> is the delay? Why do you think that the status of 'organization' is
>> more valuable then the status of 'person'?
>>
>> >
>> > this way, an arrogant person can not play with a nation's benefits.
>>
>> We don't speak there about nation's benefits but about gnome farsi
>> translation. I really can't get (and don't want to get) the benefits
>> of your nation. But... just don't miss the thing: contributions are
>> more valuable then words. And the 'organization' is the same as a
>> 'person' and should "show us the code" (translations of course).
>>
>> >
>> > Best Wishes,
>> > Mohammad Foroughi.
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, 2008-06-26 at 09:29 +0430, Alireza Hesabi wrote:
>> >  <شما چی فکر کردید؟
>> >>
>> >  <این روزبه پورنادر یه بچه ننر لوسه که با دانشگاه شریف هم کلی مشکل
>> >  <داشته! این آدم  کلی پول از دانشگاه شریف گرفته و هیچ کار مفیدی هم
>> >  <نکرده.
>> >>
>> >> Roozbeh: You are just a nasty fascist.
>>
>> Hey, guys, just think what you say. Fascists are Italian politicians
>> in 1920-1940, no more, no less...
>>
>> >> Your only prominence is that
>> >> you was the first one who got coordination of fa.
>> >>
>> >> It is about 2 years that you are inactive and there is no significant
>> >> change in persian translation. But just know that some people are
>> >> trying to contribute, you seem active!
>> >>
>> >> You just fucked up persian translation.
>>
>> Facts with links would be good I think.
>>
>> >>
>> >  <افرادی مثل تو و اون بهداد بی تربیت ترجمه فارسی را به نابودی کشانده
>> >  <اند.
>> >>
>> >> I know why you re-start your translation: You just wanna keep your
>> >> domination on persian translation.
>>
>> Where have you studied the method of mind-reading? Tell us the
>> address. I'm really interested in this possibility...
>>
>> >>
>> >> Please tell the list about your problems with Sharif University
>> >> (sharif.edu) and problems you made.
>> >>
>> >> Please tell the list about times where you blocked translation...
>>
>> Just tell us about it by yourself: I've already bought pop-corn and a
>> bear. Let's start the show, yeap!
>>
>> >>
>> >> 2008/6/26 s.m ziaei <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>> >> Dont speak in argot
>> >> free software isnt your heritage
>> >> you must change your treatment
>> >> it is not proportional with free software idea
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 12:26 AM, Roozbeh Pournader
>> >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >> On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 10:47 PM, Mohammad Foroughi
>> >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >> > [...]
>> >> >  So, Roozbeh, please let others help you...
>> >> >
>> >> > Best Regards,
>> >> > Mohammad Foroughi
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Any person (including people who have not previously
>> >> contributed to
>> >> GNOME translations) is welcome to review Persian
>> >> translations of
>> >> GNOME, if he/she feels competent. I am not stopping
>> >> anybody from
>> >> reviewing translations. The bugs are there, and
>> >> anybody can comment on
>> >> them. (I always do a quick review myself before
>> >> committing patches,
>> >> which may become exhaustive if I think other people's
>> >> reviews have not
>> >> been thorough enough.)
>> >>
>> >> We've been reviewing translations and fixing bugs in
>> >> Persian
>> >> translations in the meanwhile too. A few patches from
>> >> Hedayat
>> >> Vatankhah, Shervin Afshar, Amir Hedayaty, Elnaz
>> >> Sarbar, and Arash
>> >> Mousavi have been reviewed and/or committed early this
>> >> month, for
>> >> example. Elnaz Sarbar and Behdad Esfahbod had helped

Re: Slowness in farsi translation

[Alireza Hesabi]

Do you remember problems that roozbeh made during sep. 2005?

Fights for coordination?

Fights for removing a line of copyright?

disallowing vulenteers to help?

And this is a link (you love links!):

http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-i18n/2005-September/msg00264.html

And the link for 2 years of inactivity: [EMAIL PROTECTED] have a link in his 
mail...


2008/6/26 Ihar Hrachyshka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> 2008/6/26 Mohammad Foroughi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > I strongly insist that roozbeh and his team must change and the new team
> > coordination should be given to an institute instead of a single person.
>
> Does the institute contribute to gnome farsi translation? Is there a
> significant problem on committing the contributions to SVN? How long
> is the delay? Why do you think that the status of 'organization' is
> more valuable then the status of 'person'?
>
> >
> > this way, an arrogant person can not play with a nation's benefits.
>
> We don't speak there about nation's benefits but about gnome farsi
> translation. I really can't get (and don't want to get) the benefits
> of your nation. But... just don't miss the thing: contributions are
> more valuable then words. And the 'organization' is the same as a
> 'person' and should "show us the code" (translations of course).
>
> >
> > Best Wishes,
> > Mohammad Foroughi.
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 2008-06-26 at 09:29 +0430, Alireza Hesabi wrote:
> >  <شما چی فکر کردید؟
> >>
> >  <این روزبه پورنادر یه بچه ننر لوسه که با دانشگاه شریف هم کلی مشکل
> >  <داشته! این آدم  کلی پول از دانشگاه شریف گرفته و هیچ کار مفیدی هم
> >  <نکرده.
> >>
> >> Roozbeh: You are just a nasty fascist.
>
> Hey, guys, just think what you say. Fascists are Italian politicians
> in 1920-1940, no more, no less...
>
> >> Your only prominence is that
> >> you was the first one who got coordination of fa.
> >>
> >> It is about 2 years that you are inactive and there is no significant
> >> change in persian translation. But just know that some people are
> >> trying to contribute, you seem active!
> >>
> >> You just fucked up persian translation.
>
> Facts with links would be good I think.
>
> >>
> >  <افرادی مثل تو و اون بهداد بی تربیت ترجمه فارسی را به نابودی کشانده
> >  <اند.
> >>
> >> I know why you re-start your translation: You just wanna keep your
> >> domination on persian translation.
>
> Where have you studied the method of mind-reading? Tell us the
> address. I'm really interested in this possibility...
>
> >>
> >> Please tell the list about your problems with Sharif University
> >> (sharif.edu) and problems you made.
> >>
> >> Please tell the list about times where you blocked translation...
>
> Just tell us about it by yourself: I've already bought pop-corn and a
> bear. Let's start the show, yeap!
>
> >>
> >> 2008/6/26 s.m ziaei <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >> Dont speak in argot
> >> free software isnt your heritage
> >> you must change your treatment
> >> it is not proportional with free software idea
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 12:26 AM, Roozbeh Pournader
> >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 10:47 PM, Mohammad Foroughi
> >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> > [...]
> >> >  So, Roozbeh, please let others help you...
> >> >
> >> > Best Regards,
> >> > Mohammad Foroughi
> >>
> >>
> >> Any person (including people who have not previously
> >> contributed to
> >> GNOME translations) is welcome to review Persian
> >> translations of
> >> GNOME, if he/she feels competent. I am not stopping
> >> anybody from
> >> reviewing translations. The bugs are there, and
> >> anybody can comment on
> >> them. (I always do a quick review myself before
> >> committing patches,
> >> which may become exhaustive if I think other people's
> >> reviews have not
> >> been thorough enough.)
> >>
> >> We've been reviewing translations and fixing bugs in
> >> Persian
> >> translations in the meanwhile too. A few patches from
> >> Hedayat
> >> Vatankhah, Shervin Afshar, Amir Hedayaty, Elnaz
> >> Sarbar, and Arash
> >> Mousavi have been reviewed and/or committed early this
> >> month, for
> >> example. Elnaz Sarbar and Behdad Esfahbod had helped
> >> review them. (I
> >> have put your patches at the end of my own queue, as I
> >> believe people
> >> acting in a polite manner deserve more attention.)
> >>
> >> This email of yours is again full of allegations and
> >> misinformatio

Re: Slowness in farsi translation

[Ihar Hrachyshka]

2008/6/26 Mohammad Foroughi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> I strongly insist that roozbeh and his team must change and the new team
> coordination should be given to an institute instead of a single person.

Does the institute contribute to gnome farsi translation? Is there a
significant problem on committing the contributions to SVN? How long
is the delay? Why do you think that the status of 'organization' is
more valuable then the status of 'person'?

>
> this way, an arrogant person can not play with a nation's benefits.

We don't speak there about nation's benefits but about gnome farsi
translation. I really can't get (and don't want to get) the benefits
of your nation. But... just don't miss the thing: contributions are
more valuable then words. And the 'organization' is the same as a
'person' and should "show us the code" (translations of course).

>
> Best Wishes,
> Mohammad Foroughi.
>
>
> On Thu, 2008-06-26 at 09:29 +0430, Alireza Hesabi wrote:
>  <شما چی فکر کردید؟
>>
>  <این روزبه پورنادر یه بچه ننر لوسه که با دانشگاه شریف هم کلی مشکل
>  <داشته! این آدم  کلی پول از دانشگاه شریف گرفته و هیچ کار مفیدی هم
>  <نکرده.
>>
>> Roozbeh: You are just a nasty fascist.

Hey, guys, just think what you say. Fascists are Italian politicians
in 1920-1940, no more, no less...

>> Your only prominence is that
>> you was the first one who got coordination of fa.
>>
>> It is about 2 years that you are inactive and there is no significant
>> change in persian translation. But just know that some people are
>> trying to contribute, you seem active!
>>
>> You just fucked up persian translation.

Facts with links would be good I think.

>>
>  <افرادی مثل تو و اون بهداد بی تربیت ترجمه فارسی را به نابودی کشانده
>  <اند.
>>
>> I know why you re-start your translation: You just wanna keep your
>> domination on persian translation.

Where have you studied the method of mind-reading? Tell us the
address. I'm really interested in this possibility...

>>
>> Please tell the list about your problems with Sharif University
>> (sharif.edu) and problems you made.
>>
>> Please tell the list about times where you blocked translation...

Just tell us about it by yourself: I've already bought pop-corn and a
bear. Let's start the show, yeap!

>>
>> 2008/6/26 s.m ziaei <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>> Dont speak in argot
>> free software isnt your heritage
>> you must change your treatment
>> it is not proportional with free software idea
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 12:26 AM, Roozbeh Pournader
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 10:47 PM, Mohammad Foroughi
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > [...]
>> >  So, Roozbeh, please let others help you...
>> >
>> > Best Regards,
>> > Mohammad Foroughi
>>
>>
>> Any person (including people who have not previously
>> contributed to
>> GNOME translations) is welcome to review Persian
>> translations of
>> GNOME, if he/she feels competent. I am not stopping
>> anybody from
>> reviewing translations. The bugs are there, and
>> anybody can comment on
>> them. (I always do a quick review myself before
>> committing patches,
>> which may become exhaustive if I think other people's
>> reviews have not
>> been thorough enough.)
>>
>> We've been reviewing translations and fixing bugs in
>> Persian
>> translations in the meanwhile too. A few patches from
>> Hedayat
>> Vatankhah, Shervin Afshar, Amir Hedayaty, Elnaz
>> Sarbar, and Arash
>> Mousavi have been reviewed and/or committed early this
>> month, for
>> example. Elnaz Sarbar and Behdad Esfahbod had helped
>> review them. (I
>> have put your patches at the end of my own queue, as I
>> believe people
>> acting in a polite manner deserve more attention.)
>>
>> This email of yours is again full of allegations and
>> misinformation. I
>> can go over your email and point your false claims
>> again and again,
>> but it is apparently not worth the time. I won't be
>> able to work with
>> you if you continue the attacks.
>>
>> Roozbeh Pournader
>>
>> ___
>> gnome-i18n mailing list
>> gnome-i18n@gnome.org
>> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> gnome-i18n mailing

Re: Slowness in farsi translation

[Mohammad Foroughi]

Mr. Hesabi:

 Roozbeh Pournader has made a significant contribution to persian
translation, farsi fonts, and fribidi and many other projects.


 He was active till 2006, but I do not know why he become inactive
during 2006-2008:

http://tinyurl.com/4o2p5x

He just become re-active by my emails to the list.

But it seems that he is very monopolist, and do not let others to join
his team. He think that gnome is his father's inheritance, and he and
his guys are representation of All Iranians In The World!!!

I wanna know how many hands he have?

Can a person manage all these:

Developer on FriBiDi
  * Contributor on Fedora Project
  * Contributor on Pango
  * Contributor on GNOME i18n Project
  * Contributor on Translation Project
  * Contributor on GNOME
  * Contributor on GTK+
  * Contributor on Mozilla
  * Contributor on Evolution
  * Contributor on FarsiTeX
  * Lead Developer on Sharif Linux

http://www.advogato.org/person/roozbeh/

This causes that all things are blocked and in domination of a single
group.

It is better to take coordination from him and give it to an
organization in iran, and that organization decide he DESERVES
coordination?

Roozbeh says that I do not deserve attention,

I SAY that HE DO NOT DESERVE COORDINATION?

Witch one is true?

How you can decide?

Can gnome boys that are not Native persian Speakers decide?

No, iranians should deciude?

I propose, you (gnome founders and admins) make an email to an Iranian
institute that is responsible for translation (or similar things) and
aks them: "If roozbeh is a competent person?" Or make a connection to
sharif university and ask them about roozbeh.

I strongly insist that roozbeh and his team must change and the new team
coordination should be given to an institute instead of a single person.

this way, an arrogant person can not play with a nation's benefits.

Best Wishes,
Mohammad Foroughi.


On Thu, 2008-06-26 at 09:29 +0430, Alireza Hesabi wrote:
 <شما چی فکر کردید؟
> 
 <این روزبه پورنادر یه بچه ننر لوسه که با دانشگاه شریف هم کلی مشکل
 <داشته! این آدم  کلی پول از دانشگاه شریف گرفته و هیچ کار مفیدی هم
 <نکرده.
> 
> Roozbeh: You are just a nasty fascist. Your only prominence is that
> you was the first one who got coordination of fa.
> 
> It is about 2 years that you are inactive and there is no significant
> change in persian translation. But just know that some people are
> trying to contribute, you seem active!
> 
> You just fucked up persian translation.
> 
 <افرادی مثل تو و اون بهداد بی تربیت ترجمه فارسی را به نابودی کشانده
 <اند.
> 
> I know why you re-start your translation: You just wanna keep your
> domination on persian translation.
> 
> Please tell the list about your problems with Sharif University
> (sharif.edu) and problems you made.
> 
> Please tell the list about times where you blocked translation...
> 
> 2008/6/26 s.m ziaei <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Dont speak in argot
> free software isnt your heritage
> you must change your treatment
> it is not proportional with free software idea
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 12:26 AM, Roozbeh Pournader
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 10:47 PM, Mohammad Foroughi
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > [...]
> >  So, Roozbeh, please let others help you...
> >
> > Best Regards,
> > Mohammad Foroughi
> 
> 
> Any person (including people who have not previously
> contributed to
> GNOME translations) is welcome to review Persian
> translations of
> GNOME, if he/she feels competent. I am not stopping
> anybody from
> reviewing translations. The bugs are there, and
> anybody can comment on
> them. (I always do a quick review myself before
> committing patches,
> which may become exhaustive if I think other people's
> reviews have not
> been thorough enough.)
> 
> We've been reviewing translations and fixing bugs in
> Persian
> translations in the meanwhile too. A few patches from
> Hedayat
> Vatankhah, Shervin Afshar, Amir Hedayaty, Elnaz
> Sarbar, and Arash
> Mousavi have been reviewed and/or committed early this
> month, for
> example. Elnaz Sarbar and Behdad Esfahbod had helped
> review them. (I
> have put your patches at the end of my own queue, as I
> believe people
> acting in a polite manner deserve more attention.)
> 
> This email of yours is ag

Re: Slowness in farsi translation

[Alireza Hesabi]

شما چی فکر کردید؟

این روزبه پورنادر یه بچه ننر لوسه که با دانشگاه شریف هم کلی مشکل داشته! این
آدم  کلی پول از دانشگاه شریف گرفته و هیچ کار مفیدی هم نکرده.

Roozbeh: You are just a nasty fascist. Your only prominence is that you was
the first one who got coordination of fa.

It is about 2 years that you are inactive and there is no significant change
in persian translation. But just know that some people are trying to
contribute, you seem active!

You just fucked up persian translation.

افرادی مثل تو و اون بهداد بی تربیت ترجمه فارسی را به نابودی کشانده اند.

I know why you re-start your translation: You just wanna keep your
domination on persian translation.

Please tell the list about your problems with Sharif University (sharif.edu)
and problems you made.

Please tell the list about times where you blocked translation...

2008/6/26 s.m ziaei <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> Dont speak in argot
> free software isnt your heritage
> you must change your treatment
> it is not proportional with free software idea
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 12:26 AM, Roozbeh Pournader <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 10:47 PM, Mohammad Foroughi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
>> wrote:
>> > [...]
>> >  So, Roozbeh, please let others help you...
>> >
>> > Best Regards,
>> > Mohammad Foroughi
>>
>> Any person (including people who have not previously contributed to
>> GNOME translations) is welcome to review Persian translations of
>> GNOME, if he/she feels competent. I am not stopping anybody from
>> reviewing translations. The bugs are there, and anybody can comment on
>> them. (I always do a quick review myself before committing patches,
>> which may become exhaustive if I think other people's reviews have not
>> been thorough enough.)
>>
>> We've been reviewing translations and fixing bugs in Persian
>> translations in the meanwhile too. A few patches from Hedayat
>> Vatankhah, Shervin Afshar, Amir Hedayaty, Elnaz Sarbar, and Arash
>> Mousavi have been reviewed and/or committed early this month, for
>> example. Elnaz Sarbar and Behdad Esfahbod had helped review them. (I
>> have put your patches at the end of my own queue, as I believe people
>> acting in a polite manner deserve more attention.)
>>
>> This email of yours is again full of allegations and misinformation. I
>> can go over your email and point your false claims again and again,
>> but it is apparently not worth the time. I won't be able to work with
>> you if you continue the attacks.
>>
>> Roozbeh Pournader
>> ___
>> gnome-i18n mailing list
>> gnome-i18n@gnome.org
>> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
>>
>
>
> ___
> gnome-i18n mailing list
> gnome-i18n@gnome.org
> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
>
>
___
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Re: Slowness in farsi translation

[s.m ziaei]

Dont speak in argot
free software isnt your heritage
you must change your treatment
it is not proportional with free software idea




On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 12:26 AM, Roozbeh Pournader <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 10:47 PM, Mohammad Foroughi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > [...]
> >  So, Roozbeh, please let others help you...
> >
> > Best Regards,
> > Mohammad Foroughi
>
> Any person (including people who have not previously contributed to
> GNOME translations) is welcome to review Persian translations of
> GNOME, if he/she feels competent. I am not stopping anybody from
> reviewing translations. The bugs are there, and anybody can comment on
> them. (I always do a quick review myself before committing patches,
> which may become exhaustive if I think other people's reviews have not
> been thorough enough.)
>
> We've been reviewing translations and fixing bugs in Persian
> translations in the meanwhile too. A few patches from Hedayat
> Vatankhah, Shervin Afshar, Amir Hedayaty, Elnaz Sarbar, and Arash
> Mousavi have been reviewed and/or committed early this month, for
> example. Elnaz Sarbar and Behdad Esfahbod had helped review them. (I
> have put your patches at the end of my own queue, as I believe people
> acting in a polite manner deserve more attention.)
>
> This email of yours is again full of allegations and misinformation. I
> can go over your email and point your false claims again and again,
> but it is apparently not worth the time. I won't be able to work with
> you if you continue the attacks.
>
> Roozbeh Pournader
> ___
> gnome-i18n mailing list
> gnome-i18n@gnome.org
> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
>
___
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Re: Slowness in farsi translation

[Roozbeh Pournader]

On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 10:47 PM, Mohammad Foroughi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [...]
>  So, Roozbeh, please let others help you...
>
> Best Regards,
> Mohammad Foroughi

Any person (including people who have not previously contributed to
GNOME translations) is welcome to review Persian translations of
GNOME, if he/she feels competent. I am not stopping anybody from
reviewing translations. The bugs are there, and anybody can comment on
them. (I always do a quick review myself before committing patches,
which may become exhaustive if I think other people's reviews have not
been thorough enough.)

We've been reviewing translations and fixing bugs in Persian
translations in the meanwhile too. A few patches from Hedayat
Vatankhah, Shervin Afshar, Amir Hedayaty, Elnaz Sarbar, and Arash
Mousavi have been reviewed and/or committed early this month, for
example. Elnaz Sarbar and Behdad Esfahbod had helped review them. (I
have put your patches at the end of my own queue, as I believe people
acting in a polite manner deserve more attention.)

This email of yours is again full of allegations and misinformation. I
can go over your email and point your false claims again and again,
but it is apparently not worth the time. I won't be able to work with
you if you continue the attacks.

Roozbeh Pournader
___
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Re: Slowness in farsi translation

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On Tue, 2008-06-24 at 13:33 +0430, Mohammad Foroughi wrote:
> 
> You don't have time
> Roozbeh don't have time
> Elnaz don't have time
> 
> So, who should complete translations?

You do, instead of writing mails to gnome-i18n.

> It seems that you are a kind of monopolist translator. Why you do not
> let others help WHEN YOU  ARE BUSY???

What the fuck?  Go translate and submit to bugzilla instead of nagging.

-- 
behdad
http://behdad.org/

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little
 Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759

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Re: Slowness in farsi translation

[Mohammad Foroughi]

On Tue, 2008-06-24 at 04:54 -0400, Behdad Esfahbod wrote:
> On Tue, 2008-06-24 at 10:17 +0430, Mohammad Foroughi wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > 
> >  It seems that the process of translating gnome into persian is slow. I
> > asked Behnam Esfahbod and he told me that there is only 2 active members
> > in the team: Mr. pournader commits translations and his wife reviews
> > them.
> > 
> >  http://bugzilla.gnome.org/buglist.cgi?product=l10n&component=Persian
> > [fa]&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=REOPENED&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=UNCONFIRMED
> > 
> >  In the above link you can see the amount of work done but did not
> > reviewd or commited.
> > 
> >  Why mr. pournader do not allow others to review or commit? It will
> > speedup translation process.
> > 
> >  He can use experienced translators from HIS team, like Behdad Esfahbod,
> > Behnam Esfahbod and others.
> 
> I don't have time for this right now.
> 

You don't have time
Roozbeh don't have time
Elnaz don't have time

So, who should complete translations?

It seems that you are a kind of monopolist translator. Why you do not
let others help WHEN YOU  ARE BUSY???


> 
> >  And if they are busy too, he can use people like Mirdamadi and others
> > from ubuntu persian team (coordinated by behnam esfahbod), it seems that
> > they have free time and can work, also they are EXPERIENCED TRANSLATORS.
> 
> If they have free time and are EXPERIENCED TRANSLATORS, why don't they
> fully complete Ubuntu's Persian translation?  Then you get what you
> wanted, right?
> 
> Moreover, instead of SHOUTING, show us why you think they are
> EXPERIENCED TRANSLATORS.  I've been around the Free Software Persian
> computing scene for the past eight years and never heard of the person
> you mention..
> 
> 
> >  So, Roozbeh, please let others help you...
> 
> The way to help, as has been repeatedly pointed out to you, is to submit
> your translations and be patient.  This is how our code is written, and
> this should be how our translation is done.
> 
> Freedom does not mean anarchy.  Get over it.
> 
> 
> > Best Regards,
> > Mohammad Foroughi
> 

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Re: Slowness in farsi translation

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On Tue, 2008-06-24 at 10:17 +0430, Mohammad Foroughi wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
>  It seems that the process of translating gnome into persian is slow. I
> asked Behnam Esfahbod and he told me that there is only 2 active members
> in the team: Mr. pournader commits translations and his wife reviews
> them.
> 
>  http://bugzilla.gnome.org/buglist.cgi?product=l10n&component=Persian
> [fa]&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=REOPENED&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=UNCONFIRMED
> 
>  In the above link you can see the amount of work done but did not
> reviewd or commited.
> 
>  Why mr. pournader do not allow others to review or commit? It will
> speedup translation process.
> 
>  He can use experienced translators from HIS team, like Behdad Esfahbod,
> Behnam Esfahbod and others.

I don't have time for this right now.


>  And if they are busy too, he can use people like Mirdamadi and others
> from ubuntu persian team (coordinated by behnam esfahbod), it seems that
> they have free time and can work, also they are EXPERIENCED TRANSLATORS.

If they have free time and are EXPERIENCED TRANSLATORS, why don't they
fully complete Ubuntu's Persian translation?  Then you get what you
wanted, right?

Moreover, instead of SHOUTING, show us why you think they are
EXPERIENCED TRANSLATORS.  I've been around the Free Software Persian
computing scene for the past eight years and never heard of the person
you mention..


>  So, Roozbeh, please let others help you...

The way to help, as has been repeatedly pointed out to you, is to submit
your translations and be patient.  This is how our code is written, and
this should be how our translation is done.

Freedom does not mean anarchy.  Get over it.


> Best Regards,
> Mohammad Foroughi

-- 
behdad
http://behdad.org/

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little
 Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759

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