[google-appengine] Re: Help: can you help validate MyApp / Datastore / Bigtable / GFS?

[David Symonds]

On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 4:22 PM, pr3d4t0r <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Oct 7, 4:45 am, "David Symonds" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Users of Bigtable don't always communicate through the BT master; they
>> usually go straight to the tablet server once they know which one they
>> need to talk to.
>
> Thanks Dave.  This, for now, is a high-level architectural view.  Do
> you think it makes sense to add the path to discrete tablets here?  I
> believe it may be a bit distracting.

If you're going to include enough detail in the diagram to indicate
the master/tablet server distinction, you probably should include it,
otherwise it would be misleading.

>From the Bigtable paper:  (http://labs.google.com/papers/bigtable.html)

"As with many single-master distributed storage systems, client data
does not move through the master: clients communicate directly with
tablet servers for reads and writes. Because Bigtable clients do not
rely on the master for tablet location information, most clients never
communicate with the master. As a result, the master is lightly loaded
in practice."

> How should I credit you in the book?  David Symonds with some
> affiliation?

Contact me off-list about this.


Dave.

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[google-appengine] Re: Definition of "Google's Infrastructure"

[Josh Heitzman]

Regarding "Should we design our system so that if the datacenters
where an app is deployed are vaporized, then the app keeps serving?
No, this is a much thornier issue." does this mean that an app's data
is stored in one and only one data center with no off-site backups?

I could understand that the off-site backup of an app isn't
automatically started up when there is a burp in service from a
datacenter, but if all of the data was lost from a datacenter would it
just be gone?

On Oct 7, 9:26 pm, Jon McAlister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Should we allow control over where the app is serving from? Sure, that
> sounds very reasonable, and is notably important for certain legal
> reasons amongst our European customers.
>
> Should we design our system so that if the datacenters where an app is
> deployed are vaporized, then the app keeps serving? No, this is a much
> thornier issue.
>
> Notably, I disagree with the claim that true inter-continental
> deployment of an app is a "basic premise of modern cloud computing",
> mostly because this is really hard, and few systems actually get this
> right. Think about it from the view of a datastore write. When you
> write an entity, should that entity be immediately available on every
> continent? The reasonable answer is no, because if we guaranteed that,
> then the write latency would skyrocket. But if we don't guarantee
> that, what do we guarantee instead? If the app is presently serving
> from two continents, but we do not guarantee strong write behavior,
> how are conflicting writes then to be merged? If one datacenter
> disappears and then later comes back online, what happens to the
> writes that were halfway applied but not yet fully merged? Do we
> permit data to be dropped or do we try to reconcile this data, in
> spite of the fact that it may be hours or days stale?
>
> The answer to the above questions rely heavily on the specifics of the
> data and the behavior of the application, and most apps are happy to
> avoid this issue and are fine serving from one or a small number of
> locations. It's not a trivial thing to design one (or a handful of)
> generic APIs that support true inter-continental application presence,
> but this doesn't mean we'll give up trying to do so. We also welcome
> any technical suggestions you have. For instance, how would you
> presently solve this issue outside of Google App Engine?
>
> On Oct 7, 1:39 pm, "Andrew Badera" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > That's the point of the cloud -- if you're going to make your resources
> > external, remote, you need to provide a means for assuring uptime. For some
> > people, different geophysical locations are required for their service.
> > Obviously GAE beta shouldn't see a true NEED for this while still in beta,
> > but like SSL and everything else GAE lacks, there IS a need, it IS a basic
> > premise of modern cloud computing.
>
> > On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 4:35 PM, Sal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > So you want to be assured that if all the Google data centers in the
> > > U.S. (over 12) go down (I wonder the probability of this), your GAE
> > > application will still be up?
>
> > > On Oct 7, 11:35 am, "Andrew Badera" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > Ahh ... availability and assurance? That's half the point of the cloud.
>
> > > > On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 2:34 PM, Sal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > > > Honestly, why would anyone need to deploy their GAE applications to
> > > > > international data centers?
>
> > > > > On Oct 7, 10:48 am, dleifker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > > What exactly does the term Google's Infrastructure imply? Once
> > > > > > deployed does an application get deployed to regional (ie
> > > > > > international) data centers? If not, from what general geographical
> > > > > > area are the applications being served from? (US only?) And are 
> > > > > > there
> > > > > > plans to allow an application to be deployed to international
> > > > > > locations?
>
> > > > --
> > > > Thanks-
> > > > - Andy Badera
> > > > - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > - (518) 641-1420
>
> > > > -http://higherefficiency.net
> > > > -http://changeroundup.com/
>
> > > > -http://flipbitsnotburgers.blogspot.com/
> > > > -http://andrew.badera.us/
>
> > > > - Google me:http://www.google.com/search?q=andrew+badera
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[google-appengine] Re: Why Google App Engine is broken and what Google must do to fix it.

[Josh Heitzman]

Not all applications' data can be modeled such that that each piece of
data belongs to one and only one user.

On Oct 7, 10:24 pm, "Ian Lewis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The documentation says that an entity group could be as large as a single
> user's data. It seems to me that to avoid the problem you are describing
> that it would be a good idea to do so. I have a feeling that the number of
> cases where you would need to update more than one user's data in a single
> transaction would be limited.
>
> 2008/10/8 Josh Heitzman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
>
> > Assuming you can actually work around all of the limitation
> > simultaneously, considering the more things you work around the close
> > you come to the CPU time quota.
>
> > It also is not completely accurate to state that the limitations are
> > there to make apps safe and scalable.  For example transactions being
> > limited to a single entity group makes it very complicated (i.e. not
> > safe) to write code that needs to reliably update entities from
> > different groups (it isn't always possible to structure entity groups
> > such that everything that is needs to be updated for a request can be
> > all be in one entity group).
>
> > Also given the roundness of the quotas, I find it very unlikely that
> > the quota numbers were choosen based on an in depth analysis or a
> > broad sampling of data, rather the being choosen fairly arbitrarily
> > (possibly based to some extent on what works for google's own apps).
>
> > On Oct 7, 4:16 pm, Greg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Davew said it way back at the top - appengine's killer feature is
> > > scalability. That is what sets it apart from the other cloud systems
> > > out there, and it is also the root cause of most complaints (except
> > > the quotas, which will disappear when you get to pay for the service).
>
> > > For the application I'm working on, I'm happy to trade off lack of a
> > > relational database for the future gain of scalability. My guess is
> > > that most of you haven't had the nightmare of an application that
> > > suddenly became popular, and you had to become an expert at database
> > > replication, load balancing and multi-system maintenance overnight.
> > > It's a very stressful situation.
>
> > > So my advice is that if you don't need scalability, get a normal
> > > hosting account or EC3. Then you can have PHP, Ruby, MySQL, cron jobs,
> > > anything you want - problem solved. Oh, yes you are going to have to
> > > shell out a few buck a month.
>
> > > But if you do need scalability, then appengine is a godsend. The
> > > limitations are there to make it safe and scalable, not because Google
> > > wants to annoy you. You spend a little more time now working around
> > > the limitations, and save endless time later managing systems and
> > > capacity.
>
> > > And lastly, I believe that many of the complaints come from people
> > > just wanting a free hosting service, and not finding what they are
> > > used to. It would be a crying shame if Google listened to these people
> > > and turned appengine into a vanilla PHP/MySQL hosting service.
> > > Appengine is so much more...
>
> > > On Oct 7, 3:54 pm, Ross Ridge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > > > One thing you have to remember it is not what Guido or the engineers
> > > > > want. If Google App Engine is to succeed it is what the customers
> > > > > want. If it is designed as you have stated it will never recoup what
> > > > > Google has spent so far let alone down the road. Google App Engine
> > has
> > > > > so many many limitations.  Regardless if the limitations are by
> > design
> > > > > or not it is virtually unusable by 99% of all developers. Can Google
> > > > > make a business off the remaining 1%?
>
> > > > The question of whether Google can turn Google App Engine into a
> > > > profitable business doesn't depend on what percentage of developers
> > > > find it useful, but whether Google exploit a competive advantage.
> > > > Google could've started up a tradtional web hosting service using
> > > > popular SQL databases and other techonologies and created something
> > > > that would have had a much broader appeal.  Any one could.  That's the
> > > > problem.  Google might be able to grab market share, but without
> > > > anything to distiguish themselves from their competitors, a best they
> > > > only get a marginal return on their investment.
>
> > > > We can only speculate on what Google business plan for GAE is, but it
> > > > seems pretty obvious to me that leveraging Google's own internal
> > > > technologies is at the heart of it.  A number of limitations and
> > > > problems with GAE stem from technologies like Big Table, Google
> > > > Frontend and Google Apps.  Another part of their plan appears to be
> > > > keeping support costs low, so you're not given much rope to hang
> > > > yourself (or others).  If, in the long term, Google can't make a
> > > > business follo

[google-appengine] Re: Why Google App Engine is broken and what Google must do to fix it.

[Ian Lewis]

The documentation says that an entity group could be as large as a single
user's data. It seems to me that to avoid the problem you are describing
that it would be a good idea to do so. I have a feeling that the number of
cases where you would need to update more than one user's data in a single
transaction would be limited.

2008/10/8 Josh Heitzman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

>
> Assuming you can actually work around all of the limitation
> simultaneously, considering the more things you work around the close
> you come to the CPU time quota.
>
> It also is not completely accurate to state that the limitations are
> there to make apps safe and scalable.  For example transactions being
> limited to a single entity group makes it very complicated (i.e. not
> safe) to write code that needs to reliably update entities from
> different groups (it isn't always possible to structure entity groups
> such that everything that is needs to be updated for a request can be
> all be in one entity group).
>
> Also given the roundness of the quotas, I find it very unlikely that
> the quota numbers were choosen based on an in depth analysis or a
> broad sampling of data, rather the being choosen fairly arbitrarily
> (possibly based to some extent on what works for google's own apps).
>
> On Oct 7, 4:16 pm, Greg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Davew said it way back at the top - appengine's killer feature is
> > scalability. That is what sets it apart from the other cloud systems
> > out there, and it is also the root cause of most complaints (except
> > the quotas, which will disappear when you get to pay for the service).
> >
> > For the application I'm working on, I'm happy to trade off lack of a
> > relational database for the future gain of scalability. My guess is
> > that most of you haven't had the nightmare of an application that
> > suddenly became popular, and you had to become an expert at database
> > replication, load balancing and multi-system maintenance overnight.
> > It's a very stressful situation.
> >
> > So my advice is that if you don't need scalability, get a normal
> > hosting account or EC3. Then you can have PHP, Ruby, MySQL, cron jobs,
> > anything you want - problem solved. Oh, yes you are going to have to
> > shell out a few buck a month.
> >
> > But if you do need scalability, then appengine is a godsend. The
> > limitations are there to make it safe and scalable, not because Google
> > wants to annoy you. You spend a little more time now working around
> > the limitations, and save endless time later managing systems and
> > capacity.
> >
> > And lastly, I believe that many of the complaints come from people
> > just wanting a free hosting service, and not finding what they are
> > used to. It would be a crying shame if Google listened to these people
> > and turned appengine into a vanilla PHP/MySQL hosting service.
> > Appengine is so much more...
> >
> > On Oct 7, 3:54 pm, Ross Ridge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > > One thing you have to remember it is not what Guido or the engineers
> > > > want. If Google App Engine is to succeed it is what the customers
> > > > want. If it is designed as you have stated it will never recoup what
> > > > Google has spent so far let alone down the road. Google App Engine
> has
> > > > so many many limitations.  Regardless if the limitations are by
> design
> > > > or not it is virtually unusable by 99% of all developers. Can Google
> > > > make a business off the remaining 1%?
> >
> > > The question of whether Google can turn Google App Engine into a
> > > profitable business doesn't depend on what percentage of developers
> > > find it useful, but whether Google exploit a competive advantage.
> > > Google could've started up a tradtional web hosting service using
> > > popular SQL databases and other techonologies and created something
> > > that would have had a much broader appeal.  Any one could.  That's the
> > > problem.  Google might be able to grab market share, but without
> > > anything to distiguish themselves from their competitors, a best they
> > > only get a marginal return on their investment.
> >
> > > We can only speculate on what Google business plan for GAE is, but it
> > > seems pretty obvious to me that leveraging Google's own internal
> > > technologies is at the heart of it.  A number of limitations and
> > > problems with GAE stem from technologies like Big Table, Google
> > > Frontend and Google Apps.  Another part of their plan appears to be
> > > keeping support costs low, so you're not given much rope to hang
> > > yourself (or others).  If, in the long term, Google can't make a
> > > business following this plan, if it doesn't give them enough a
> > > competive advanage, then there's probably no way they can make the
> > > kind profits from a hosting service that Google's investors expect.
> >
> > > (While it's not terribly relevent to this discussion, I suspect Google
> > > has some other goals f

[google-appengine] Re: Help: can you help validate MyApp / Datastore / Bigtable / GFS?

[pr3d4t0r]

On Oct 7, 4:45 am, "David Symonds" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Users of Bigtable don't always communicate through the BT master; they
> usually go straight to the tablet server once they know which one they
> need to talk to.

Thanks Dave.  This, for now, is a high-level architectural view.  Do
you think it makes sense to add the path to discrete tablets here?  I
believe it may be a bit distracting.

How should I credit you in the book?  David Symonds with some
affiliation?

Thanks,

pr3d4t0r
http://www.istheserverup.com
http://www.ciurana.eu
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[google-appengine] Re: Definition of "Google's Infrastructure"

[Jon McAlister]

Regarding the CDN case is markedly different from the datastore case,
since you're just dealing with immutable blobs. This is not the thorny
issue.

Regarding the EC2 availability zone case, these are not spread across
continents. Quoting from 
http://developer.amazonwebservices.com/connect/entry.jspa?externalID=1347:

"""Amazon EC2 now provides the ability to place instances in multiple
locations. Amazon EC2 locations are composed of regions and
availability zones. Regions are geographically dispersed and will be
in separate geographic areas or countries. Currently, ***Amazon EC2
exposes only a single region***."""

So, this case is not very complicated either, since all the
availability zones are right next to one another.

I contend that neither of these solve the generic problem.

On Oct 7, 9:59 pm, "Andrew Badera" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> EC2 has availability zones. SSDS will be doing something similar.
>
> CDNs and SDNs often operate on the concept of replicating content close to
> various edges in order to reduce latency/improve throughput.
>
> Short of fixes on that scale, one must engage in data sync'g in some form or
> another.
>
> All kinds of reasons for it, and it's most definitely already being done, in
> various forms.
>
> On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 12:26 AM, Jon McAlister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Should we allow control over where the app is serving from? Sure, that
> > sounds very reasonable, and is notably important for certain legal
> > reasons amongst our European customers.
>
> > Should we design our system so that if the datacenters where an app is
> > deployed are vaporized, then the app keeps serving? No, this is a much
> > thornier issue.
>
> > Notably, I disagree with the claim that true inter-continental
> > deployment of an app is a "basic premise of modern cloud computing",
> > mostly because this is really hard, and few systems actually get this
> > right. Think about it from the view of a datastore write. When you
> > write an entity, should that entity be immediately available on every
> > continent? The reasonable answer is no, because if we guaranteed that,
> > then the write latency would skyrocket. But if we don't guarantee
> > that, what do we guarantee instead? If the app is presently serving
> > from two continents, but we do not guarantee strong write behavior,
> > how are conflicting writes then to be merged? If one datacenter
> > disappears and then later comes back online, what happens to the
> > writes that were halfway applied but not yet fully merged? Do we
> > permit data to be dropped or do we try to reconcile this data, in
> > spite of the fact that it may be hours or days stale?
>
> > The answer to the above questions rely heavily on the specifics of the
> > data and the behavior of the application, and most apps are happy to
> > avoid this issue and are fine serving from one or a small number of
> > locations. It's not a trivial thing to design one (or a handful of)
> > generic APIs that support true inter-continental application presence,
> > but this doesn't mean we'll give up trying to do so. We also welcome
> > any technical suggestions you have. For instance, how would you
> > presently solve this issue outside of Google App Engine?
>
> > On Oct 7, 1:39 pm, "Andrew Badera" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > That's the point of the cloud -- if you're going to make your resources
> > > external, remote, you need to provide a means for assuring uptime. For
> > some
> > > people, different geophysical locations are required for their service.
> > > Obviously GAE beta shouldn't see a true NEED for this while still in
> > beta,
> > > but like SSL and everything else GAE lacks, there IS a need, it IS a
> > basic
> > > premise of modern cloud computing.
>
> > > On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 4:35 PM, Sal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > > So you want to be assured that if all the Google data centers in the
> > > > U.S. (over 12) go down (I wonder the probability of this), your GAE
> > > > application will still be up?
>
> > > > On Oct 7, 11:35 am, "Andrew Badera" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > Ahh ... availability and assurance? That's half the point of the
> > cloud.
>
> > > > > On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 2:34 PM, Sal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > Honestly, why would anyone need to deploy their GAE applications to
> > > > > > international data centers?
>
> > > > > > On Oct 7, 10:48 am, dleifker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > > > What exactly does the term Google's Infrastructure imply? Once
> > > > > > > deployed does an application get deployed to regional (ie
> > > > > > > international) data centers? If not, from what general
> > geographical
> > > > > > > area are the applications being served from? (US only?) And are
> > there
> > > > > > > plans to allow an application to be deployed to international
> > > > > > > locations?
>
> > > > > --
> > > > > Thanks-
> > > > > - Andy Badera
> > > > > - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > - (518) 641

[google-appengine] Re: Definition of "Google's Infrastructure"

[Andrew Badera]

EC2 has availability zones. SSDS will be doing something similar.

CDNs and SDNs often operate on the concept of replicating content close to
various edges in order to reduce latency/improve throughput.

Short of fixes on that scale, one must engage in data sync'g in some form or
another.

All kinds of reasons for it, and it's most definitely already being done, in
various forms.



On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 12:26 AM, Jon McAlister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> Should we allow control over where the app is serving from? Sure, that
> sounds very reasonable, and is notably important for certain legal
> reasons amongst our European customers.
>
> Should we design our system so that if the datacenters where an app is
> deployed are vaporized, then the app keeps serving? No, this is a much
> thornier issue.
>
> Notably, I disagree with the claim that true inter-continental
> deployment of an app is a "basic premise of modern cloud computing",
> mostly because this is really hard, and few systems actually get this
> right. Think about it from the view of a datastore write. When you
> write an entity, should that entity be immediately available on every
> continent? The reasonable answer is no, because if we guaranteed that,
> then the write latency would skyrocket. But if we don't guarantee
> that, what do we guarantee instead? If the app is presently serving
> from two continents, but we do not guarantee strong write behavior,
> how are conflicting writes then to be merged? If one datacenter
> disappears and then later comes back online, what happens to the
> writes that were halfway applied but not yet fully merged? Do we
> permit data to be dropped or do we try to reconcile this data, in
> spite of the fact that it may be hours or days stale?
>
> The answer to the above questions rely heavily on the specifics of the
> data and the behavior of the application, and most apps are happy to
> avoid this issue and are fine serving from one or a small number of
> locations. It's not a trivial thing to design one (or a handful of)
> generic APIs that support true inter-continental application presence,
> but this doesn't mean we'll give up trying to do so. We also welcome
> any technical suggestions you have. For instance, how would you
> presently solve this issue outside of Google App Engine?
>
> On Oct 7, 1:39 pm, "Andrew Badera" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > That's the point of the cloud -- if you're going to make your resources
> > external, remote, you need to provide a means for assuring uptime. For
> some
> > people, different geophysical locations are required for their service.
> > Obviously GAE beta shouldn't see a true NEED for this while still in
> beta,
> > but like SSL and everything else GAE lacks, there IS a need, it IS a
> basic
> > premise of modern cloud computing.
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 4:35 PM, Sal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > So you want to be assured that if all the Google data centers in the
> > > U.S. (over 12) go down (I wonder the probability of this), your GAE
> > > application will still be up?
> >
> > > On Oct 7, 11:35 am, "Andrew Badera" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > Ahh ... availability and assurance? That's half the point of the
> cloud.
> >
> > > > On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 2:34 PM, Sal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > > > Honestly, why would anyone need to deploy their GAE applications to
> > > > > international data centers?
> >
> > > > > On Oct 7, 10:48 am, dleifker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > > What exactly does the term Google's Infrastructure imply? Once
> > > > > > deployed does an application get deployed to regional (ie
> > > > > > international) data centers? If not, from what general
> geographical
> > > > > > area are the applications being served from? (US only?) And are
> there
> > > > > > plans to allow an application to be deployed to international
> > > > > > locations?
> >
> > > > --
> > > > Thanks-
> > > > - Andy Badera
> > > > - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > - (518) 641-1420
> >
> > > > -http://higherefficiency.net
> > > > -http://changeroundup.com/
> >
> > > > -http://flipbitsnotburgers.blogspot.com/
> > > > -http://andrew.badera.us/
> >
> > > > - Google me:http://www.google.com/search?q=andrew+badera
> >
>

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[google-appengine] Re: What is an acceptable average request time?

[Jon McAlister]

Your best reference for that is likely: 
http://code.google.com/appengine/articles/quotas.html

Also notable is that you need to make sure you do not consume more
than 300ms of cpu-time per request (time spent waiting on API calls is
not counted in this specific threshold).

On Oct 7, 5:10 pm, Amir  Michail <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Oct 7, 6:51 pm, "David Symonds" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 8:36 AM, Amir Michail <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > I mean what sort of request times should one aim for to avoid having
> > > the app shut down for hours?
>
> > As short as possible. It will depend on the amount of traffic: if it's
> > very few requests, they can take several seconds; if it's getting lots
> > of requests, a few seconds is going to be too long.
>
> > Dave.
>
> I think what's required here is a tool to give developers get a
> reasonable idea whether it would be feasible to port their app to the
> google app engine with its present quotas/deadlines.
>
> Amir
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[google-appengine] Re: www [mydomain.org] Already used, please remove previous mapping first.

[ID]

This did not resolved my problem.  I have disabled all services then
tried, received same error.



On Oct 7, 1:24 am, "Marzia Niccolai" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> The issue here is that, by default, Google Apps has assigned www to sites,
> and you have to disable this before mapping www to an App Engine app.
>
> Unfortunately, it's not very clear on how to do this in the Google Apps
> admin panel.
>
> To get www to work with your app, enable sites, if it isn't already, and go
> to the service settings for sites.  Find and delete the 'www' mapping in the
> service settings.
>
> After this, you should be able to map your App Engine app towww.mydomain.com.
>
> -Marzia
>
> On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 4:20 AM, Sylvain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Can you create an issue for this ?
>
> >http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/list
>
> > On 6 oct, 11:09, ID <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Basically problem seems to be is this:
>
> > > Google Apps thinks 'www' is assigned to some service, thus locking
> > > 'www' so it cant be assigned any other service.
>
> > > But user can not see which service 'www' was assigned to by Google
> > > apps, therefore user not able  to changed or disabled it.
>
> > > On Oct 5, 7:33 pm, Tom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > > Please try the following:
>
> > > > Go to your site's dashboardhttps://
> >www.google.com/a/cpanel/[yourdomain.org]/Dashboard
>
> > > > From there you'll likely see the Web Pages service set
> > towww.yourdomain.org.
> > > > Clicking on that will let you rename it (to home.yourdomain.org for
> > > > example).
>
> > > > Hope that helps!
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[google-appengine] Re: Datastore Timeouts Must Die

[Jon McAlister]

Hi Alex, sorry for the frustrations this is causing. The first thing I
would check for here is to verify that these writes are not failing
due to entity group contention. (documentation on entity groups:
http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/datastore/keysandentitygroups.html#Entity_Groups_Ancestors_and_Paths).
All writes within one entity group are optimistically serialized. You
mention that a good write latency is 100ms. So, if you ever try to do
more than 10 writes in one second you will experience transaction
retries and eventually you will hit the datastore timeout. Note that
even put() and get_or_insert() are still considered transactions in
our system.

On Oct 7, 2:48 pm, Alex Epshteyn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> As an example, of how frequently datastore write timeouts are
> happening on app engine, here are the last 20 entries in my production
> error log, showing 20 timeouts in 15 minutes!
>
> I'm hoping the Google team will break their silence about this and at
> least acknowledge the problem.
>
> Developers: please star issue  
> http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=764
> if you are also experiencing this problem.
>
> 10-07 02:20PM 48.172 /games 500 4040ms 11285mcycles 0kb
> 10-07 02:20PM 48.172 /games 500 4040ms 11285mcycles 0kb
> 10-07 02:16PM 43.763 /games 500 2813ms 8253mcycles 0kb
> 10-07 02:16PM 43.410 /games 500 3078ms 8909mcycles 0kb
> 10-07 02:16PM 40.958 /games 500 3084ms 8915mcycles 0kb
> 10-07 02:15PM 03.499 /games 500 4109ms 12077mcycles 0kb
> 10-07 02:15PM 02.584 /games 500 4110ms 12365mcycles 0kb
> 10-07 02:14PM 21.732 /games 500 3071ms 8900mcycles 0kb
> 10-07 02:10PM 52.865 /games 500 4045ms 11287mcycles 0kb
> 10-07 02:10PM 51.875 /games 500 4041ms 11285mcycles 0kb
> 10-07 02:10PM 41.774 /games 500 4036ms 11282mcycles 0kb
> 10-07 02:10PM 36.958 /games 500 4033ms 11279mcycles 0kb
> 10-07 02:10PM 23.148 /games 500 4039ms 11174mcycles 0kb
> 10-07 02:08PM 31.288 /games 500 4068ms 10555mcycles 0kb
> 10-07 02:08PM 30.842 /games 500 4449ms 12217mcycles 0kb
> 10-07 02:07PM 27.179 /games 500 4047ms 11285mcycles 0kb
> 10-07 02:07PM 24.828 /games 500 4047ms 11284mcycles 0kb
> 10-07 02:07PM 20.139 /games 500 4061ms 11281mcycles 0kb
> 10-07 02:07PM 18.532 /games 500 4042ms 11246mcycles 0kb
> 10-07 02:07PM 08.776 /games 500 4048ms 11285mcycles 0kb
> 10-07 02:05PM 58.206 /games 500 4047ms 11019mcycles 0kb
>
> On Oct 6, 1:53 am, Alex Epshteyn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Please see:http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=764
>
> > There is a recent thread on this group titled "Why Google App Engine
> > is broken and what Google must do to fix it."  I personally don't
> > think that any of the topics raised by the OP of that thread imply
> > that anything is broken - they are just feature requests.
>
> > What *is* broken, however, is writing to the Datastore.  Lots of
> > developers, not just me, have been complaining about this here for
> > months.  I don't think there's been any real response from the Google
> > team about this.  This issue needs to be investigated and hopefully
> > fixed before App Engine can be used for production.  The probability
> > of failure for any given data write request is just too high right
> > now.  I actually *am* using App Engine in production and somewhat
> > regretting it, mostly due to this issue.
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[google-appengine] Re: Definition of "Google's Infrastructure"

[Jon McAlister]

Should we allow control over where the app is serving from? Sure, that
sounds very reasonable, and is notably important for certain legal
reasons amongst our European customers.

Should we design our system so that if the datacenters where an app is
deployed are vaporized, then the app keeps serving? No, this is a much
thornier issue.

Notably, I disagree with the claim that true inter-continental
deployment of an app is a "basic premise of modern cloud computing",
mostly because this is really hard, and few systems actually get this
right. Think about it from the view of a datastore write. When you
write an entity, should that entity be immediately available on every
continent? The reasonable answer is no, because if we guaranteed that,
then the write latency would skyrocket. But if we don't guarantee
that, what do we guarantee instead? If the app is presently serving
from two continents, but we do not guarantee strong write behavior,
how are conflicting writes then to be merged? If one datacenter
disappears and then later comes back online, what happens to the
writes that were halfway applied but not yet fully merged? Do we
permit data to be dropped or do we try to reconcile this data, in
spite of the fact that it may be hours or days stale?

The answer to the above questions rely heavily on the specifics of the
data and the behavior of the application, and most apps are happy to
avoid this issue and are fine serving from one or a small number of
locations. It's not a trivial thing to design one (or a handful of)
generic APIs that support true inter-continental application presence,
but this doesn't mean we'll give up trying to do so. We also welcome
any technical suggestions you have. For instance, how would you
presently solve this issue outside of Google App Engine?

On Oct 7, 1:39 pm, "Andrew Badera" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> That's the point of the cloud -- if you're going to make your resources
> external, remote, you need to provide a means for assuring uptime. For some
> people, different geophysical locations are required for their service.
> Obviously GAE beta shouldn't see a true NEED for this while still in beta,
> but like SSL and everything else GAE lacks, there IS a need, it IS a basic
> premise of modern cloud computing.
>
> On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 4:35 PM, Sal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > So you want to be assured that if all the Google data centers in the
> > U.S. (over 12) go down (I wonder the probability of this), your GAE
> > application will still be up?
>
> > On Oct 7, 11:35 am, "Andrew Badera" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Ahh ... availability and assurance? That's half the point of the cloud.
>
> > > On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 2:34 PM, Sal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > > Honestly, why would anyone need to deploy their GAE applications to
> > > > international data centers?
>
> > > > On Oct 7, 10:48 am, dleifker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > What exactly does the term Google's Infrastructure imply? Once
> > > > > deployed does an application get deployed to regional (ie
> > > > > international) data centers? If not, from what general geographical
> > > > > area are the applications being served from? (US only?) And are there
> > > > > plans to allow an application to be deployed to international
> > > > > locations?
>
> > > --
> > > Thanks-
> > > - Andy Badera
> > > - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > - (518) 641-1420
>
> > > -http://higherefficiency.net
> > > -http://changeroundup.com/
>
> > > -http://flipbitsnotburgers.blogspot.com/
> > > -http://andrew.badera.us/
>
> > > - Google me:http://www.google.com/search?q=andrew+badera
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[google-appengine] Re: reading a file

[Gmail]

the static files and the source code are  not stored on the same  
server of Google's.
so you can not do things as you said,
if you really want to do this,try use the urllib.
在 2008-10-8，上午8:48， manuelaraoz 写道：

>
> Hey!
> I'm really confused!
>
> I have this line of code:
>
> fin = open("static/text/data.txt",'r')
>
>
> when running with dev_appserver everything is ok
> but when I deploy the application, it fails, stating:
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/base/python_lib/versions/1/google/appengine/ext/webapp/
> __init__.py", line 499, in __call__
>handler.get(*groups)
>  File "/base/data/home/apps/7cerebros/4.6/controller.py", line 213,
> in get
>fin = open("static/text/words.txt",'r')
> IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'static/text/words.txt'
>
>
> my app.yaml has this line:
>
> - url: /text
>  static_dir: static/text
>
> any idea of why this difference?
>
>
>
> >


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[google-appengine] Re: Simple Graphics App

[Jorge Vargas]

On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 9:32 PM, codingJoe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I'm new to Google Code and I'm looking for expert advice on the best
> structure and libraries to build a simple graphics app on GAE.
>
> In my app, I want to give the user the ability to move slider bars to
> control variables and drag simple custom icons onto a chart.   The
> following example illustrates the level of interactivity I'm looking
> for.  Nothing spectacular, but basic stuff.
>
> Example:  I define Google Data Model Objects:  apple and orange.
> I query apples and oranges counts on a by-user
> basis.
> A bar chart compares num_apples against
> num_oranges.
> User drags an icon of an apple onto the apple
> bar.
>num_apples+=1;
>chart updates.
>update user's persistent DB apple count.
>
>
> I like the GAE to manage the basic app engine stuff (objects,
> persistence, etc...)
>
> I'm confused about the graphics portion.  The closest I've found in
> google code is Android.  It seems to be built more for mobile devices
> and doesn't seem to support much interactivity.But without
> downloading, learning, and experimenting, that may not be a correct
> assessment.
>
> What graphics library should I use?  Is there a best example to
> illustrate the concepts I would use in this app?  How to make simple
> interactive graphics work within GAE apps and classes?
>
> Thanks for any advice
>

how about google charts? http://code.google.com/apis/chart/

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[google-appengine] Re: reading a file

[Jorge Vargas]

GAE's filesystem is read-only, why do you need to open that file?

On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 6:48 PM, manuelaraoz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hey!
> I'm really confused!
>
> I have this line of code:
>
> fin = open("static/text/data.txt",'r')
>
>
> when running with dev_appserver everything is ok
> but when I deploy the application, it fails, stating:
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/base/python_lib/versions/1/google/appengine/ext/webapp/
> __init__.py", line 499, in __call__
>handler.get(*groups)
>  File "/base/data/home/apps/7cerebros/4.6/controller.py", line 213,
> in get
>fin = open("static/text/words.txt",'r')
> IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'static/text/words.txt'
>
>
> my app.yaml has this line:
>
> - url: /text
>  static_dir: static/text
>
> any idea of why this difference?
>
>
>
> >
>

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[google-appengine] Re: reading a file

[Jorge Vargas]

ahhh hit send too fast, by read-only I'm trying to say paths and files
aren't exactly there, you don't have the ability to see the
underlaying filesystem.

On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 10:19 PM, Jorge Vargas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> GAE's filesystem is read-only, why do you need to open that file?
>
> On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 6:48 PM, manuelaraoz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> Hey!
>> I'm really confused!
>>
>> I have this line of code:
>>
>> fin = open("static/text/data.txt",'r')
>>
>>
>> when running with dev_appserver everything is ok
>> but when I deploy the application, it fails, stating:
>>
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>  File "/base/python_lib/versions/1/google/appengine/ext/webapp/
>> __init__.py", line 499, in __call__
>>handler.get(*groups)
>>  File "/base/data/home/apps/7cerebros/4.6/controller.py", line 213,
>> in get
>>fin = open("static/text/words.txt",'r')
>> IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'static/text/words.txt'
>>
>>
>> my app.yaml has this line:
>>
>> - url: /text
>>  static_dir: static/text
>>
>> any idea of why this difference?
>>
>>
>>
>> >>
>>
>

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[google-appengine] Datastore timeout error

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

Hello,

I'm developing a quiz application now and I have a problem with
datastore. Most of the time, application saves the data into the
datastore, but sometimes, I get an exception.

Exception in request:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/base/data/home/apps/django/core/handlers/base.py", line 82, in
get_response
response = callback(request, *callback_args, **callback_kwargs)
  File "/base/data/home/apps/views.py", line 701, in QuizResult
db.put(result)
  File
"/base/python_lib/versions/1/google/appengine/ext/db/__init__.py", line
1006, in put
keys = datastore.Put(entities)
  File "/base/python_lib/versions/1/google/appengine/api/datastore.py",
line 162, in Put
raise _ToDatastoreError(err)
  File "/base/python_lib/versions/1/google/appengine/api/datastore.py",
line 1627, in _ToDatastoreError
raise errors[err.application_error](err.error_detail)
Timeout

Does anyone know about this error?

Keiya Kanno

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[google-appengine] reading a file

[manuelaraoz]

Hey!
I'm really confused!

I have this line of code:

fin = open("static/text/data.txt",'r')


when running with dev_appserver everything is ok
but when I deploy the application, it fails, stating:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/base/python_lib/versions/1/google/appengine/ext/webapp/
__init__.py", line 499, in __call__
handler.get(*groups)
  File "/base/data/home/apps/7cerebros/4.6/controller.py", line 213,
in get
fin = open("static/text/words.txt",'r')
IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'static/text/words.txt'


my app.yaml has this line:

- url: /text
  static_dir: static/text

any idea of why this difference?



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[google-appengine] app_id is not valid in appgallery

[Thiago Coutinho]

Hi!

I'm trying submit my app to appgallery, but I'm getting the error
"The app_id you entered is not valid or application is not
functioning. Please enter a valid app_id.". Anyone has this problem?

The app is http://orkuturl.appspot.com/.


Thanks.

-- 
Thiago Coutinho - http://thiago.bunghole.com.br/

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?

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[google-appengine] Re: Can We use Unicode in Custom Tags?

[Gmail]

> @Try prefixing your string with 'u' in PostA.render():
>
> return u"%s" %
> (p.id,p.id,p.title)
I have *Already* try this.but it does not work.

> @If this doesn't help, it's probably a bug in Django 0.96 templates.
> Try switching to 1.0, it has a lot of Unicode-related fixes:
> http://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/ref/unicode/
I will try this later.

Thanks!
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[google-appengine] Re: Why Google App Engine is broken and what Google must do to fix it.

[Josh Heitzman]

Assuming you can actually work around all of the limitation
simultaneously, considering the more things you work around the close
you come to the CPU time quota.

It also is not completely accurate to state that the limitations are
there to make apps safe and scalable.  For example transactions being
limited to a single entity group makes it very complicated (i.e. not
safe) to write code that needs to reliably update entities from
different groups (it isn't always possible to structure entity groups
such that everything that is needs to be updated for a request can be
all be in one entity group).

Also given the roundness of the quotas, I find it very unlikely that
the quota numbers were choosen based on an in depth analysis or a
broad sampling of data, rather the being choosen fairly arbitrarily
(possibly based to some extent on what works for google's own apps).

On Oct 7, 4:16 pm, Greg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Davew said it way back at the top - appengine's killer feature is
> scalability. That is what sets it apart from the other cloud systems
> out there, and it is also the root cause of most complaints (except
> the quotas, which will disappear when you get to pay for the service).
>
> For the application I'm working on, I'm happy to trade off lack of a
> relational database for the future gain of scalability. My guess is
> that most of you haven't had the nightmare of an application that
> suddenly became popular, and you had to become an expert at database
> replication, load balancing and multi-system maintenance overnight.
> It's a very stressful situation.
>
> So my advice is that if you don't need scalability, get a normal
> hosting account or EC3. Then you can have PHP, Ruby, MySQL, cron jobs,
> anything you want - problem solved. Oh, yes you are going to have to
> shell out a few buck a month.
>
> But if you do need scalability, then appengine is a godsend. The
> limitations are there to make it safe and scalable, not because Google
> wants to annoy you. You spend a little more time now working around
> the limitations, and save endless time later managing systems and
> capacity.
>
> And lastly, I believe that many of the complaints come from people
> just wanting a free hosting service, and not finding what they are
> used to. It would be a crying shame if Google listened to these people
> and turned appengine into a vanilla PHP/MySQL hosting service.
> Appengine is so much more...
>
> On Oct 7, 3:54 pm, Ross Ridge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > One thing you have to remember it is not what Guido or the engineers
> > > want. If Google App Engine is to succeed it is what the customers
> > > want. If it is designed as you have stated it will never recoup what
> > > Google has spent so far let alone down the road. Google App Engine has
> > > so many many limitations.  Regardless if the limitations are by design
> > > or not it is virtually unusable by 99% of all developers. Can Google
> > > make a business off the remaining 1%?
>
> > The question of whether Google can turn Google App Engine into a
> > profitable business doesn't depend on what percentage of developers
> > find it useful, but whether Google exploit a competive advantage.
> > Google could've started up a tradtional web hosting service using
> > popular SQL databases and other techonologies and created something
> > that would have had a much broader appeal.  Any one could.  That's the
> > problem.  Google might be able to grab market share, but without
> > anything to distiguish themselves from their competitors, a best they
> > only get a marginal return on their investment.
>
> > We can only speculate on what Google business plan for GAE is, but it
> > seems pretty obvious to me that leveraging Google's own internal
> > technologies is at the heart of it.  A number of limitations and
> > problems with GAE stem from technologies like Big Table, Google
> > Frontend and Google Apps.  Another part of their plan appears to be
> > keeping support costs low, so you're not given much rope to hang
> > yourself (or others).  If, in the long term, Google can't make a
> > business following this plan, if it doesn't give them enough a
> > competive advanage, then there's probably no way they can make the
> > kind profits from a hosting service that Google's investors expect.
>
> > (While it's not terribly relevent to this discussion, I suspect Google
> > has some other goals for GAE that don't deal directly with its
> > viability as a business.  One is to educate programmers in the Google
> > way of doing things.  I'm sure Google has been fustrated with tons of
> > amazing job applicants with advanced degrees, 10+ years of WWW
> > experience, and the inability work with anything but PHP and SQL.
> > Another is that they want to make even easier for people to create WWW
> > sites, the sort of small little sites that through AdWords/AdSense,
> > Google has made billions.)
>
> > Ultimately, what matters is

[google-appengine] Simple Graphics App

[codingJoe]

I'm new to Google Code and I'm looking for expert advice on the best
structure and libraries to build a simple graphics app on GAE.

In my app, I want to give the user the ability to move slider bars to
control variables and drag simple custom icons onto a chart.   The
following example illustrates the level of interactivity I'm looking
for.  Nothing spectacular, but basic stuff.

 Example:  I define Google Data Model Objects:  apple and orange.
 I query apples and oranges counts on a by-user
basis.
 A bar chart compares num_apples against
num_oranges.
 User drags an icon of an apple onto the apple
bar.
num_apples+=1;
chart updates.
update user's persistent DB apple count.


I like the GAE to manage the basic app engine stuff (objects,
persistence, etc...)

I'm confused about the graphics portion.  The closest I've found in
google code is Android.  It seems to be built more for mobile devices
and doesn't seem to support much interactivity.But without
downloading, learning, and experimenting, that may not be a correct
assessment.

What graphics library should I use?  Is there a best example to
illustrate the concepts I would use in this app?  How to make simple
interactive graphics work within GAE apps and classes?

Thanks for any advice

T
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[google-appengine] Re: What is an acceptable average request time?

[Ross Ridge]

Amir Michail wrote:
> I think what's required here is a tool to give developers get a
> reasonable idea whether it would be feasible to port their app to the
> google app engine with its present quotas/deadlines.

I beleive the warnings about the average request time occur when a
request takes more than 300 ms or so.  An acceptable average request
time would be something less than that.

You can download the SDK and try playing around with that, but times
you measure on your machine with may differ significantly from those
on Google's server.  Especially for datastore operations.

Ross Ridge

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[google-appengine] Re: What is an acceptable average request time?

[Amir Michail]

On Oct 7, 6:51 pm, "David Symonds" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 8:36 AM, Amir Michail <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I mean what sort of request times should one aim for to avoid having
> > the app shut down for hours?
>
> As short as possible. It will depend on the amount of traffic: if it's
> very few requests, they can take several seconds; if it's getting lots
> of requests, a few seconds is going to be too long.
>
> Dave.

I think what's required here is a tool to give developers get a
reasonable idea whether it would be feasible to port their app to the
google app engine with its present quotas/deadlines.

Amir


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[google-appengine] error in the configuration documentation?

[valugi]

Documentation  and the introductory video state that to start the dev
web server you have to run this:
dev_appserver.py [options] .

In Ubuntu actually you have to run :

$ python dev_appserver.py [options] 

I found this ambiguous especially for people who are coming from other
backgrounds not python.
Good documentation makes a product successful.
http://valugi.ro/en/article/running-google-app-engine-in-ubuntu

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[google-appengine] Re: Why Google App Engine is broken and what Google must do to fix it.

[Greg]

Davew said it way back at the top - appengine's killer feature is
scalability. That is what sets it apart from the other cloud systems
out there, and it is also the root cause of most complaints (except
the quotas, which will disappear when you get to pay for the service).

For the application I'm working on, I'm happy to trade off lack of a
relational database for the future gain of scalability. My guess is
that most of you haven't had the nightmare of an application that
suddenly became popular, and you had to become an expert at database
replication, load balancing and multi-system maintenance overnight.
It's a very stressful situation.

So my advice is that if you don't need scalability, get a normal
hosting account or EC3. Then you can have PHP, Ruby, MySQL, cron jobs,
anything you want - problem solved. Oh, yes you are going to have to
shell out a few buck a month.

But if you do need scalability, then appengine is a godsend. The
limitations are there to make it safe and scalable, not because Google
wants to annoy you. You spend a little more time now working around
the limitations, and save endless time later managing systems and
capacity.

And lastly, I believe that many of the complaints come from people
just wanting a free hosting service, and not finding what they are
used to. It would be a crying shame if Google listened to these people
and turned appengine into a vanilla PHP/MySQL hosting service.
Appengine is so much more...

On Oct 7, 3:54 pm, Ross Ridge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > One thing you have to remember it is not what Guido or the engineers
> > want. If Google App Engine is to succeed it is what the customers
> > want. If it is designed as you have stated it will never recoup what
> > Google has spent so far let alone down the road. Google App Engine has
> > so many many limitations.  Regardless if the limitations are by design
> > or not it is virtually unusable by 99% of all developers. Can Google
> > make a business off the remaining 1%?
>
> The question of whether Google can turn Google App Engine into a
> profitable business doesn't depend on what percentage of developers
> find it useful, but whether Google exploit a competive advantage.
> Google could've started up a tradtional web hosting service using
> popular SQL databases and other techonologies and created something
> that would have had a much broader appeal.  Any one could.  That's the
> problem.  Google might be able to grab market share, but without
> anything to distiguish themselves from their competitors, a best they
> only get a marginal return on their investment.
>
> We can only speculate on what Google business plan for GAE is, but it
> seems pretty obvious to me that leveraging Google's own internal
> technologies is at the heart of it.  A number of limitations and
> problems with GAE stem from technologies like Big Table, Google
> Frontend and Google Apps.  Another part of their plan appears to be
> keeping support costs low, so you're not given much rope to hang
> yourself (or others).  If, in the long term, Google can't make a
> business following this plan, if it doesn't give them enough a
> competive advanage, then there's probably no way they can make the
> kind profits from a hosting service that Google's investors expect.
>
> (While it's not terribly relevent to this discussion, I suspect Google
> has some other goals for GAE that don't deal directly with its
> viability as a business.  One is to educate programmers in the Google
> way of doing things.  I'm sure Google has been fustrated with tons of
> amazing job applicants with advanced degrees, 10+ years of WWW
> experience, and the inability work with anything but PHP and SQL.
> Another is that they want to make even easier for people to create WWW
> sites, the sort of small little sites that through AdWords/AdSense,
> Google has made billions.)
>
> Ultimately, what matters is what you want and what Google is willing
> give you.   It doesn't matter what 99% developers want. The are number
> of problems and limitations with GAE that will be fixed.  You can look
> at the issue database to get and idea of what these are.  However,
> there are no timelines, so don't plan anything being fixed tommorow or
> even a year from now.  Many limitations will always be there.  You're
> never going to get all the functionality of an SQL database, nor will
> GAE be suitable for computationally intensive tasks.
>
> Look at a GAE, and see if it offers it what you want as it is now.  If
> it's close but not quite there maybe play around with it, maybe go so
> far as making a proof of concept of something.  On the other hand, if
> GAE is far away from what you want, then walk away.  GAE isn't for
> you, and probably won't ever be.  Maybe check back in a year or so,
> but now you should be looking for another hosting solution.
>
>                               Ross Ridge
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[google-appengine] Re: What is an acceptable average request time?

[David Symonds]

On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 8:36 AM, Amir Michail <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I mean what sort of request times should one aim for to avoid having
> the app shut down for hours?

As short as possible. It will depend on the amount of traffic: if it's
very few requests, they can take several seconds; if it's getting lots
of requests, a few seconds is going to be too long.


Dave.

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[google-appengine] Re: Model.put() Best Practice

[Alexander Kojevnikov]

> > Maybe in production, it is different
>
> Anyone can confirm to this ?

In my app, putting 10-20 entities in one go is 2-3 times faster than
putting them one by one.

You can also get some benchmarks from http://www.cloudstatus.com/
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[google-appengine] Re: Can I use key or id in gql?

[Alexander Kojevnikov]

>From http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/datastore/keysandentitygroups.html:

Key names and IDs cannot be used like property values in queries.
However, you can use a named key, then store the name as a property.
You could do something similar with numeric IDs by storing the object
to assign the ID, getting the ID value using obj.key().id(), setting
the property with the ID, then storing the object again.

Alternatively, if your exclusion list is not large and the number of
topics in the datastore is reasonable, you can filter manually:

def list(req):
except_list = [3, 10]
topics = (t for t in Topic.all() if t.key().id() not in
except_list)

--
http://www.muspy.com

On Oct 7, 10:46 pm, Evan Park <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello.
> Can I use key or id of data in gql? I want to use like below.
>
> class TopicCmt(db.Model):
>     topic       = db.ReferenceProperty(Topic, required=True)
>     owner       = db.ReferenceProperty(User, required=True)
>     user_name   = db.StringProperty(required=True)
>
> def list(req):
>     except_list = [3, 10]
>     t = Topic.gql('WHERE ID != :1', except_list)
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[google-appengine] Re: Can We use Unicode in Custom Tags?

[Alexander Kojevnikov]

If this doesn't help, it's probably a bug in Django 0.96 templates.
Try switching to 1.0, it has a lot of Unicode-related fixes:
http://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/ref/unicode/

On Oct 8, 10:06 am, Alexander Kojevnikov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Try prefixing your string with 'u' in PostA.render():
>
> return u"%s" %
> (p.id,p.id,p.title)
>
> On Oct 8, 1:18 am, Gmail <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Current I Try to Use django's Custom Tags,
> > It is usful,I like it.
>
> > but when i try to render something Unicode ,
> > I got UnicodeDecodeError.
>
> > This is my Tag:
> > class PostA(template.Node):
> >         def render(self, context):
> >                 p=context['p']          
> >                 return "%s" %
> > (p.id,p.id,p.title)
> > def posta(parser, token):
> >         return PostA()
>
> > in the template:
> > {%for p in paths%}
> > {%posta p.id p.title%}
> > {% endfor %}
>
> > paths is a list of Post
> > Post is my model:
> > class Post(db.Model):
> >         id=db.StringProperty(required=True)
> >         title = db.StringProperty(required=True)
> >         path = db.StringProperty()
>
> > in the Handler:
> >         template_values={
> >                 'title':p.title,
> >                 'paths':paths,
> >                 'content':p.content,
> >                 'relates':relates
> >         }
> >         return shortcuts.render_to_response("post.html",template_values)
> > So What your Idea?
>
> > I think there are something wrong in the shortcuts module when it is  
> > dealing whit unicode,
> > but i can not find it.
> > Any reply will be appreciated!
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[google-appengine] Re: Can We use Unicode in Custom Tags?

[Alexander Kojevnikov]

Try prefixing your string with 'u' in PostA.render():

return u"%s" %
(p.id,p.id,p.title)

On Oct 8, 1:18 am, Gmail <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Current I Try to Use django's Custom Tags,
> It is usful,I like it.
>
> but when i try to render something Unicode ,
> I got UnicodeDecodeError.
>
> This is my Tag:
> class PostA(template.Node):
>         def render(self, context):
>                 p=context['p']          
>                 return "%s" %
> (p.id,p.id,p.title)
> def posta(parser, token):
>         return PostA()
>
> in the template:
> {%for p in paths%}
> {%posta p.id p.title%}
> {% endfor %}
>
> paths is a list of Post
> Post is my model:
> class Post(db.Model):
>         id=db.StringProperty(required=True)
>         title = db.StringProperty(required=True)
>         path = db.StringProperty()
>
> in the Handler:
>         template_values={
>                 'title':p.title,
>                 'paths':paths,
>                 'content':p.content,
>                 'relates':relates
>         }
>         return shortcuts.render_to_response("post.html",template_values)
> So What your Idea?
>
> I think there are something wrong in the shortcuts module when it is  
> dealing whit unicode,
> but i can not find it.
> Any reply will be appreciated!
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[google-appengine] Re: Datastore Timeouts Must Die

[Alex Epshteyn]

As an example, of how frequently datastore write timeouts are
happening on app engine, here are the last 20 entries in my production
error log, showing 20 timeouts in 15 minutes!

I'm hoping the Google team will break their silence about this and at
least acknowledge the problem.

Developers: please star issue  
http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=764
if you are also experiencing this problem.

10-07 02:20PM 48.172 /games 500 4040ms 11285mcycles 0kb
10-07 02:20PM 48.172 /games 500 4040ms 11285mcycles 0kb
10-07 02:16PM 43.763 /games 500 2813ms 8253mcycles 0kb
10-07 02:16PM 43.410 /games 500 3078ms 8909mcycles 0kb
10-07 02:16PM 40.958 /games 500 3084ms 8915mcycles 0kb
10-07 02:15PM 03.499 /games 500 4109ms 12077mcycles 0kb
10-07 02:15PM 02.584 /games 500 4110ms 12365mcycles 0kb
10-07 02:14PM 21.732 /games 500 3071ms 8900mcycles 0kb
10-07 02:10PM 52.865 /games 500 4045ms 11287mcycles 0kb
10-07 02:10PM 51.875 /games 500 4041ms 11285mcycles 0kb
10-07 02:10PM 41.774 /games 500 4036ms 11282mcycles 0kb
10-07 02:10PM 36.958 /games 500 4033ms 11279mcycles 0kb
10-07 02:10PM 23.148 /games 500 4039ms 11174mcycles 0kb
10-07 02:08PM 31.288 /games 500 4068ms 10555mcycles 0kb
10-07 02:08PM 30.842 /games 500 4449ms 12217mcycles 0kb
10-07 02:07PM 27.179 /games 500 4047ms 11285mcycles 0kb
10-07 02:07PM 24.828 /games 500 4047ms 11284mcycles 0kb
10-07 02:07PM 20.139 /games 500 4061ms 11281mcycles 0kb
10-07 02:07PM 18.532 /games 500 4042ms 11246mcycles 0kb
10-07 02:07PM 08.776 /games 500 4048ms 11285mcycles 0kb
10-07 02:05PM 58.206 /games 500 4047ms 11019mcycles 0kb




On Oct 6, 1:53 am, Alex Epshteyn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Please see:http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=764
>
> There is a recent thread on this group titled "Why Google App Engine
> is broken and what Google must do to fix it."  I personally don't
> think that any of the topics raised by the OP of that thread imply
> that anything is broken - they are just feature requests.
>
> What *is* broken, however, is writing to the Datastore.  Lots of
> developers, not just me, have been complaining about this here for
> months.  I don't think there's been any real response from the Google
> team about this.  This issue needs to be investigated and hopefully
> fixed before App Engine can be used for production.  The probability
> of failure for any given data write request is just too high right
> now.  I actually *am* using App Engine in production and somewhat
> regretting it, mostly due to this issue.
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[google-appengine] Re: What is an acceptable average request time?

[Amir Michail]

On Oct 7, 5:28 pm, "David Symonds" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 8:17 AM, Amir Michail <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Anyone know what sort of request times are acceptable?
>
> Acceptable to whom?
>
> Dave.

I mean what sort of request times should one aim for to avoid having
the app shut down for hours?

Amir
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[google-appengine] Re: What is an acceptable average request time?

[David Symonds]

On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 8:17 AM, Amir Michail <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Anyone know what sort of request times are acceptable?

Acceptable to whom?


Dave.

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[google-appengine] What is an acceptable average request time?

[Amir Michail]

Hi,

Anyone know what sort of request times are acceptable?

Amir


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[google-appengine] Re: Definition of "Google's Infrastructure"

[dleifker]

Reliability/redundancy is important. However don't overlook the fact
that performance for international users is greatly affected by your
server's location, considering latency/packet loss, etc. And there are
markets outside the US. ;-)



On Oct 7, 3:39 pm, "Andrew Badera" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> That's the point of the cloud -- if you're going to make your resources
> external, remote, you need to provide a means for assuring uptime. For some
> people, different geophysical locations are required for their service.
> Obviously GAE beta shouldn't see a true NEED for this while still in beta,
> but like SSL and everything else GAE lacks, there IS a need, it IS a basic
> premise of modern cloud computing.
>
> On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 4:35 PM, Sal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > So you want to be assured that if all the Google data centers in the
> > U.S. (over 12) go down (I wonder the probability of this), your GAE
> > application will still be up?
>
> > On Oct 7, 11:35 am, "Andrew Badera" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Ahh ... availability and assurance? That's half the point of the cloud.
>
> > > On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 2:34 PM, Sal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > > Honestly, why would anyone need to deploy their GAE applications to
> > > > international data centers?
>
> > > > On Oct 7, 10:48 am, dleifker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > What exactly does the term Google's Infrastructure imply? Once
> > > > > deployed does an application get deployed to regional (ie
> > > > > international) data centers? If not, from what general geographical
> > > > > area are the applications being served from? (US only?) And are there
> > > > > plans to allow an application to be deployed to international
> > > > > locations?
>
> > > --
> > > Thanks-
> > > - Andy Badera
> > > - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > - (518) 641-1420
>
> > > -http://higherefficiency.net
> > > -http://changeroundup.com/
>
> > > -http://flipbitsnotburgers.blogspot.com/
> > > -http://andrew.badera.us/
>
> > > - Google me:http://www.google.com/search?q=andrew+badera
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[google-appengine] Re: Definition of "Google's Infrastructure"

[Sal]

So you want to be assured that if all the Google data centers in the
U.S. (over 12) go down (I wonder the probability of this), your GAE
application will still be up?

On Oct 7, 11:35 am, "Andrew Badera" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Ahh ... availability and assurance? That's half the point of the cloud.
>
> On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 2:34 PM, Sal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Honestly, why would anyone need to deploy their GAE applications to
> > international data centers?
>
> > On Oct 7, 10:48 am, dleifker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > What exactly does the term Google's Infrastructure imply? Once
> > > deployed does an application get deployed to regional (ie
> > > international) data centers? If not, from what general geographical
> > > area are the applications being served from? (US only?) And are there
> > > plans to allow an application to be deployed to international
> > > locations?
>
> --
> Thanks-
> - Andy Badera
> - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> - (518) 641-1420
>
> -http://higherefficiency.net
> -http://changeroundup.com/
>
> -http://flipbitsnotburgers.blogspot.com/
> -http://andrew.badera.us/
>
> - Google me:http://www.google.com/search?q=andrew+badera
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[google-appengine] Re: TypeError: 'NoneType' object is unsubscriptable

[Venkatesh Rangarajan]

Marzia,

I added a few Index. NoneType errors have reduced. Still I get those errors
every once in a while.

Data-Store timeouts are happening 50% of the time. Even for queries where
the result set is really small. I am retrieving only 20 entities per
request, but even that is causing time-out errors.

I am doing everything as per "documentation". At this time I am at less than
30% of the actual volume of data that I can potentially upload.

Please guide me on what I can do to improve my app ? I would prefer a little
latency in page loading than milli second timeouts.

Rgds,
Venkatesh

On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 12:22 PM, Marzia Niccolai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> These types of queries don't usually need indexes - unless they are too
> difficult to do without the index.  In this case you would need an index
> that is along the lines of:
> - kind: Article
>   properties:
>   - name: __searchable_text_index
>   - name: __searchable_text_index
>   - name: __searchable_text_index
> etc, depending on the number of keywords you are using in your query.
>
> Unfortunately, queries needing this type of index have a high
> correspondence rate with exploding indexes (
> http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/datastore/queriesandindexes.html#Big_Entities_and_Exploding_Indexes),
> so it's probable that this index can't be built.
>
> -Marzia
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 3:35 PM, Venkatesh Rangarajan <
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Its a search able model ? The documentation says they don't need indexes.
>> Can you please advice me what index I should add ?
>>
>> Here is my query below.
>>
>> def db_visas(keyword, offset):
>>  visas=[]
>>  query = search.SearchableQuery('Visa')
>>  query.Search(keyword)
>>  for result in query.Get(101, offset):
>>   visas.append(result)
>>  return visas
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> >
>

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[google-appengine] Re: Some problems with database filling

[djidjadji]

For every record you need to create a new LjShort.
When you put() a record it gets a key and this record gets rewritten
with all the records

class Feed(webapp.RequestHandler):
   def get(self):
   feed = feedparser.parse('someRSSlink')
   for i in feed.entries:
   ljfeed = LjShort()
   ljfeed.link = i.link
   try:
   ljfeed.title = i.title
   except:
   ljfeed.title = 'No title...'
   ljfeed.put()
   self.redirect('/')


2008/10/6 Shtpavel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> So.. I want to fill database with 2 fields: Link, Title.
> This information i take from rss-parser.
> Bu database do not filling.
>
> 
> import feedparser
> import os
> from google.appengine.ext import webapp, db
> from google.appengine.ext.webapp.util import run_wsgi_app
> from google.appengine.ext.webapp import template
>
> class LjShort(db.Model):
>link = db.LinkProperty()
>title = db.StringProperty()
>
>
> class Feed(webapp.RequestHandler):
>def get(self):
>ljfeed = LjShort()
>
>feed = feedparser.parse('someRSSlink')
>for i in feed.entries:
>ljfeed.link = i.link
>try:
>ljfeed.title = i.title
>except:
>ljfeed.title = 'No title...'
>ljfeed.put()
>self.redirect('/')
>
>
> class FeedPage(webapp.RequestHandler):
>def get(self):
>lj_query = LjShort().all()
>
>template_values = {
>'lj_post': lj_query,
>}
>path = os.path.join(os.path.dirname(__file__), 'feed.html')
>self.response.out.write(template.render(path,
> template_values))
>
> application = webapp.WSGIApplication(
>[('/', FeedPage),
>('/feed', Feed)],
>debug = True
> )
>
> def main():
>run_wsgi_app(application)
>
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>main()
> 
>
> >
>

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[google-appengine] Re: Definition of "Google's Infrastructure"

[Andrew Badera]

That's the point of the cloud -- if you're going to make your resources
external, remote, you need to provide a means for assuring uptime. For some
people, different geophysical locations are required for their service.
Obviously GAE beta shouldn't see a true NEED for this while still in beta,
but like SSL and everything else GAE lacks, there IS a need, it IS a basic
premise of modern cloud computing.



On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 4:35 PM, Sal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> So you want to be assured that if all the Google data centers in the
> U.S. (over 12) go down (I wonder the probability of this), your GAE
> application will still be up?
>
> On Oct 7, 11:35 am, "Andrew Badera" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Ahh ... availability and assurance? That's half the point of the cloud.
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 2:34 PM, Sal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > Honestly, why would anyone need to deploy their GAE applications to
> > > international data centers?
> >
> > > On Oct 7, 10:48 am, dleifker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > What exactly does the term Google's Infrastructure imply? Once
> > > > deployed does an application get deployed to regional (ie
> > > > international) data centers? If not, from what general geographical
> > > > area are the applications being served from? (US only?) And are there
> > > > plans to allow an application to be deployed to international
> > > > locations?
> >
> > --
> > Thanks-
> > - Andy Badera
> > - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > - (518) 641-1420
> >
> > -http://higherefficiency.net
> > -http://changeroundup.com/
> >
> > -http://flipbitsnotburgers.blogspot.com/
> > -http://andrew.badera.us/
> >
> > - Google me:http://www.google.com/search?q=andrew+badera
> >
>

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[google-appengine] Re: GAE Obfuscator?

[Davide Rognoni]

> See "Software patent debate"
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_patent_debate

"google algorithm" on Patent Search
http://www.google.com/patents?spell=1&q=google+algorithm&btnG=Search+Patents

The first, US Pat. 6594692 - Filed Apr 29, 1996
"Methods for transacting electronic commerce"
http://www.google.com/patents?id=NvsOEBAJ&dq=google+algorithm

> seriously a javascript compressor is not an obfuscators
"...Obfuscators may be used to compact object code or interpreted code
without affecting its behaviour when size is important..."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obfuscated_code


On Oct 7, 2:53 pm, "Jorge Vargas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 3:30 PM, Davide Rognoni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > A good obfuscator do not make a code more slow or bugged (see
> > JavaScript obfuscators)
>
> link?
>
> seriously a javascript compressor is not an obfuscators, 
> seehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minify
>
> that has a serious advantage as it reduces latency.
>
> > See "Software patent debate"
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_patent_debate
>
> > What is the big innovation of Google?
>
> > On Oct 6, 2:11 pm, "Jorge Vargas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> Which are stupid, make things run slower and sometimes get you weird
> >> random bugs. After all in todays world your secret is not your code
> >> but your company, just an example what is the big innovation of say
> >> youtube?
>
> >> On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 4:49 AM, Davide Rognoni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >> > The solution is in the title: "GAE Obfuscator"
>
> >> > On Oct 5, 5:44 am, "Jorge Vargas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> >> On Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 3:32 AM, Davide Rognoni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> >> >> wrote:
>
> >> >> > Search the word "obfuscate"
> >> >> >http://evolvingtrends.wordpress.com/2008/07/23/google-app-engine-thre...
>
> >> >> > """\
> >> >> > There is one other serious issue with the Google appengine: relying on
> >> >> > a predatory company like Google to host your startup's application
> >> >> > could be very risky from a business point of view. Will Google allow
> >> >> > you to upload obfuscated code or obfuscated Python byte code? Do they
> >> >> > have access to your code? (yes) What if you have invested heavily in
> >> >> > developing some commercial product that Google wants to copy or
> >> >> > acquire? Will they have more leverage because they host your code?
> >> >> > """
>
> >> >> And how is this different from hosting with someone else? or you plan
> >> >> to plant your servers on your office?
>
> >> >> > On Oct 3, 11:13 pm, Davide Rognoni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> >> >> Why Google can see my secret code?
>
> >> >> >> i.e.http://www.lysator.liu.se/~astrand/projects/pyobfuscate/
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[google-appengine] Definition of "Google's Infrastructure"

[dleifker]

What exactly does the term Google's Infrastructure imply? Once
deployed does an application get deployed to regional (ie
international) data centers? If not, from what general geographical
area are the applications being served from? (US only?) And are there
plans to allow an application to be deployed to international
locations?

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[google-appengine] Re: Definition of "Google's Infrastructure"

[Sal]

Honestly, why would anyone need to deploy their GAE applications to
international data centers?

On Oct 7, 10:48 am, dleifker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> What exactly does the term Google's Infrastructure imply? Once
> deployed does an application get deployed to regional (ie
> international) data centers? If not, from what general geographical
> area are the applications being served from? (US only?) And are there
> plans to allow an application to be deployed to international
> locations?
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[google-appengine] Re: Definition of "Google's Infrastructure"

[Andrew Badera]

Ahh ... availability and assurance? That's half the point of the cloud.


On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 2:34 PM, Sal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> Honestly, why would anyone need to deploy their GAE applications to
> international data centers?
>
> On Oct 7, 10:48 am, dleifker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > What exactly does the term Google's Infrastructure imply? Once
> > deployed does an application get deployed to regional (ie
> > international) data centers? If not, from what general geographical
> > area are the applications being served from? (US only?) And are there
> > plans to allow an application to be deployed to international
> > locations?
> >
>


-- 
Thanks-
- Andy Badera
- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- (518) 641-1420

- http://higherefficiency.net
- http://changeroundup.com/

- http://flipbitsnotburgers.blogspot.com/
- http://andrew.badera.us/

- Google me: http://www.google.com/search?q=andrew+badera

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[google-appengine] Re: Please provide interactive sql-like queries, even inefficient ones

[ryan]

on a different note, a number of the shell and console applications
posted to the group can be embedded in your app, as an admin-only
handler. you can then use them to do interactive datastore
maintennance, similar to a traditional sql shell:

http://shell.appspot.com/
http://con.appspot.com/
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[google-appengine] Re: Authenticated RPC from gadget to appengine service?

[Sergey Panfilov]

I'm facing the same problem. I'm looking for client authentication in
GAE application using Google credentials. As I understand users API
doesn't provide such interfaces. I also looked at OAuth and AuthSub
module. You're right, they're for another purpose. So the problem can
be solved "unofficial way", simulating user's behaviour during signup
in the client.

Ofcourse it can be implemented another way, if one decide not to use
Google credentials for authentication and implement own users' table
and some authorization.

On 2 окт, 01:20, Duane <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have created a gadget and can make a simple RPC request to a service
> I have implemented using the app engine.  I would like to store and
> retrieve user specific information using the RPC service, but I want
> to do it in a secure way.
>
> How can I identify the logged in user of the gadget container
> (OpenSocial container) and provide this information to the service in
> a secure way?  I have looked at OAuth, but this appears to be a way to
> allow users to authorize access to data from third-party gadgets.
> Since I am the gadget and service author, I don' think this is
> necessary.  My gadget is "phoning home."  I think I just need to get
> the identity of the logged in user in a secure way.
>
> The container makeRequest function does support OAUTH and 
> SIGNEDauthorizationtypes, but these don't seem like what I need.
>
> I would appreciate help on this.

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[google-appengine] A fault-tolerant open source counter

[Bill]

I've extended my implementation of a sharded, memcached counter to
allow more graceful handling of failed shard puts because of timeout,
capability disabling, etc.  The idea is to use memcache as a buffer
for failed put data, which gets re-added to the next successful put.

Longer writeup here: 
http://billkatz.com/2008/10/Fault-tolerant-counters-for-App-Engine

Code is here: http://github.com/DocSavage/sharded_counter/tree/master/counter.py

Let me know if you see holes in this approach.  There might be a way
to generalize this method to provide a more fault-tolerant datastore
layer for more sophisticated models.
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[google-appengine] Re: Model.put() Best Practice

[Bill]

> If you check the SDK, I think there is no real difference between
> put(entity) or put(entities).
>
> I don't think put(entities) will be a lot faster.
>
> Maybe in production, it is different

I think in production it is different. See the comment by ryan (google
datastore lead) on using multiple entity puts here:
http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine/msg/375e5adb642cd773

I also just discovered this excellent post after a quick search of the
group:
http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine/msg/7ed92abad89500c5
It shows benchmarks for batching gets and provides code that you could
modify to test puts in the same way.
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[google-appengine] Re: Please provide interactive sql-like queries, even inefficient ones

[Amir Michail]

On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 1:00 PM, Jon McAlister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Neat idea. Most of the other proposals in the Issue Tracker seem to
> relate to letting full application code run longer or in the
> background in some way, whereas your proposal is to only allow
> processing as specified in a strict language. The admin would submit
> their query string, and we would run it at our leisure and then notify
> the admin on completion, with a similar workflow perhaps to the way we
> presently build and delete composite indexes. Would you mind adding
> this feature request to the Issue Tracker: 
> http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/list

Done:

http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=773

Amir

>
> On Oct 6, 11:15 pm, Amir  Michail <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On Oct 6, 11:38 pm, Jon McAlister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> > Agreed that the current computational model is inconvenient,
>> > especially for the case of a single admin doing datastore maintenance.
>> > We are working on some solutions for this, but we have to come up with
>> > something that isolates different apps from eachother, as this is a
>> > shared computing platform, and so we have to be a bit more clever here
>> > to ensure that the most number of people can get the greatest use out
>> > of the system. For instance, I'm assuming you wouldn't be happy if an
>> > admin for another app ran an expensive maintenance job and this
>> > affected the quality of service of your app. That's why we are
>> > concerned about relaxing quotas or deadlines.
>>
>> You don't have to relax quotas/deadlines.  But instead of asking
>> developers to do something like this:
>>
>> http://code.google.com/appengine/articles/update_schema.html
>>
>> ...why not do it on our behalf behind the scenes as a result of an
>> extended query language update command?
>>
>> Sure it may be quite slow and it may not be obvious why, but that's
>> ok.  It's the convenience that's important.
>>
>> Amir
>>
>>
>>
>> > If you have some concrete proposals for what else we should
>> > investigate, please let us know. Also, please take a look at other
>> > people's ideas in the Issue Tracker and rate the ones you like.
>>
>> > On Oct 6, 11:13 am, Amir  Michail <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> > > On Oct 6, 2:02 pm, "Marzia Niccolai" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> > > > In general, GQL doesn't provide those operations, as it only support
>> > > > querying currently.
>>
>> > > > However, through the dataviewer's UI it is possible to update, add, and
>> > > > delete data of a specific entity kind.
>>
>> > > > In terms of updating model properties, the dataviewer does not support 
>> > > > such
>> > > > operations since the datastore design differs here from what you would 
>> > > > find
>> > > > in a MySQL-like database.  For information on how you can currently 
>> > > > achieve
>> > > > such things, it might be helpful to read this 
>> > > > article:http://code.google.com/appengine/articles/update_schema.html
>>
>> > > The "Updating Existing Entities" part looks rather inconvenient.  Why
>> > > not provide an easier way to do this by relaxing quotas for db
>> > > maintenance and extending the query language to handle typical
>> > > scenarios?
>>
>> > > Amir
>>
>> > > > -Marzia
>>
>> > > > On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 10:54 AM, Amir Michail <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
>> > > > wrote:
>>
>> > > > > On Oct 6, 1:40 pm, "Marzia Niccolai" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > > > > > Hi Amir,
>>
>> > > > > > Have you used the GQL query interface in the admin console (
>> > > > >http://appengine.google.com/datastore/explorer?&app_id=YOURAPPID)?Didyou
>> > > > > > have something else in mind?
>>
>> > > > > > -Marzia
>>
>> > > > > It looks rather limited.  What about updating, inserting, deleting
>> > > > > data?  Adding, renaming, removing columns?
>>
>> > > > > Amir
>>
>> > > > > > On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 10:21 AM, Amir Michail <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> > > > > wrote:
>>
>> > > > > > > Hi,
>>
>> > > > > > > This would help quite a lot with database maintenance.
>>
>> > > > > > > I don't think inefficient queries are such a big deal if they 
>> > > > > > > are not
>> > > > > > > part of the app and are used rarely.
>>
>> > > > > > > Amir
> >
>



-- 
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[google-appengine] Re: Please provide interactive sql-like queries, even inefficient ones

[Jon McAlister]

Neat idea. Most of the other proposals in the Issue Tracker seem to
relate to letting full application code run longer or in the
background in some way, whereas your proposal is to only allow
processing as specified in a strict language. The admin would submit
their query string, and we would run it at our leisure and then notify
the admin on completion, with a similar workflow perhaps to the way we
presently build and delete composite indexes. Would you mind adding
this feature request to the Issue Tracker: 
http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/list

On Oct 6, 11:15 pm, Amir  Michail <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Oct 6, 11:38 pm, Jon McAlister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Agreed that the current computational model is inconvenient,
> > especially for the case of a single admin doing datastore maintenance.
> > We are working on some solutions for this, but we have to come up with
> > something that isolates different apps from eachother, as this is a
> > shared computing platform, and so we have to be a bit more clever here
> > to ensure that the most number of people can get the greatest use out
> > of the system. For instance, I'm assuming you wouldn't be happy if an
> > admin for another app ran an expensive maintenance job and this
> > affected the quality of service of your app. That's why we are
> > concerned about relaxing quotas or deadlines.
>
> You don't have to relax quotas/deadlines.  But instead of asking
> developers to do something like this:
>
> http://code.google.com/appengine/articles/update_schema.html
>
> ...why not do it on our behalf behind the scenes as a result of an
> extended query language update command?
>
> Sure it may be quite slow and it may not be obvious why, but that's
> ok.  It's the convenience that's important.
>
> Amir
>
>
>
> > If you have some concrete proposals for what else we should
> > investigate, please let us know. Also, please take a look at other
> > people's ideas in the Issue Tracker and rate the ones you like.
>
> > On Oct 6, 11:13 am, Amir  Michail <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 6, 2:02 pm, "Marzia Niccolai" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > > In general, GQL doesn't provide those operations, as it only support
> > > > querying currently.
>
> > > > However, through the dataviewer's UI it is possible to update, add, and
> > > > delete data of a specific entity kind.
>
> > > > In terms of updating model properties, the dataviewer does not support 
> > > > such
> > > > operations since the datastore design differs here from what you would 
> > > > find
> > > > in a MySQL-like database.  For information on how you can currently 
> > > > achieve
> > > > such things, it might be helpful to read this 
> > > > article:http://code.google.com/appengine/articles/update_schema.html
>
> > > The "Updating Existing Entities" part looks rather inconvenient.  Why
> > > not provide an easier way to do this by relaxing quotas for db
> > > maintenance and extending the query language to handle typical
> > > scenarios?
>
> > > Amir
>
> > > > -Marzia
>
> > > > On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 10:54 AM, Amir Michail <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Oct 6, 1:40 pm, "Marzia Niccolai" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > > Hi Amir,
>
> > > > > > Have you used the GQL query interface in the admin console (
> > > > >http://appengine.google.com/datastore/explorer?&app_id=YOURAPPID)?Didyou
> > > > > > have something else in mind?
>
> > > > > > -Marzia
>
> > > > > It looks rather limited.  What about updating, inserting, deleting
> > > > > data?  Adding, renaming, removing columns?
>
> > > > > Amir
>
> > > > > > On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 10:21 AM, Amir Michail <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > Hi,
>
> > > > > > > This would help quite a lot with database maintenance.
>
> > > > > > > I don't think inefficient queries are such a big deal if they are 
> > > > > > > not
> > > > > > > part of the app and are used rarely.
>
> > > > > > > Amir
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[google-appengine] Re: Idle and appengine, in Linux

[Marzia Niccolai]

Hi,

You need to run App Engine programs using the dev_appserver, it can not be
run through the command line.  If you are interested in a command line like
environment with App Engine, you can run your own instance of the shell app,
or try it online.

Shell: http://shell.appspot.com
Source code:
http://code.google.com/p/google-app-engine-samples/source/browse/#svn/trunk/shell

-Marzia

On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 7:33 PM, v4vijayakumar <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> Following code (1) is to setup idle to try some simple appengine
> related stuffs. It was working fine in windows, but not in Linux. I am
> getting "BadArgumentError: _app must not be empty.", during model.put.
> please check (2). Please let me know if anything is wrong.
>
> First I doubted "datastore_v3", it could be "datastore_v4", or more,
> but it is not. :)
>
> (1)
> --
> >>> exec('''
> import sys
> sys.path.append('/home/i/dev/appe/google_appengine')
> sys.path.append('/home/i/dev/appe/google_appengine/lib/django')
> sys.path.append('/home/i/dev/appe/google_appengine/lib/webob')
> sys.path.append('/home/i/dev/appe/google_appengine/lib/yaml/lib')
> sys.path.append('/home/i/dev/appe/google_appengine/demos/test')
>
> import time
> import os
> import string
> import random
> import logging
> from hashlib import sha1
> import wsgiref.handlers
> from google.appengine.ext.webapp import template
> from google.appengine.ext import webapp
> from google.appengine.ext import db
> from google.appengine.ext.db import TransactionFailedError
> from google.appengine.api import users
> from google.appengine.api import datastore_file_stub
> from google.appengine.api import mail_stub
> from google.appengine.api import apiproxy_stub_map
> from google.appengine.api import urlfetch_stub
> from google.appengine.api import user_service_stub
>
> apiproxy_stub_map.apiproxy = apiproxy_stub_map.APIProxyStubMap()
>
> apiproxy_stub_map.apiproxy.RegisterStub('urlfetch',
>urlfetch_stub.URLFetchServiceStub())
> apiproxy_stub_map.apiproxy.RegisterStub('user',
>user_service_stub.UserServiceStub())
> apiproxy_stub_map.apiproxy.RegisterStub('datastore_v3',
>datastore_file_stub.DatastoreFileStub('test',
>'/home/i/dev/appe/google_appengine/demos/datastore',
>'/home/i/dev/appe/google_appengine/demos/datastore.history'))
> apiproxy_stub_map.apiproxy.RegisterStub('mail',
>mail_stub.MailServiceStub())
> ''')
> --
>
> (2)
> --
> >>> class test(db.Model):
>a = db.StringProperty(required=True)
>b = db.StringProperty(required=True)
>
> >>> test(a='a1:test:x:test', b='b1:test:y:test').put()
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "", line 1, in 
>test(a='a1:test:x:test', b='b1:test:y:test').put()
>  File "/home/i/dev/appe/google_appengine/google/appengine/ext/db/
> __init__.py", line 617, in put
>self._populate_internal_entity()
>  File "/home/i/dev/appe/google_appengine/google/appengine/ext/db/
> __init__.py", line 599, in _populate_internal_entity
>self._entity = self._populate_entity(_entity_class=_entity_class)
>  File "/home/i/dev/appe/google_appengine/google/appengine/ext/db/
> __init__.py", line 645, in _populate_entity
>_app=self._app)
>  File "/home/i/dev/appe/google_appengine/google/appengine/api/
> datastore.py", line 288, in __init__
>_app = datastore_types.ResolveAppId(_app)
>  File "/home/i/dev/appe/google_appengine/google/appengine/api/
> datastore_types.py", line 120, in ResolveAppId
>ValidateString(app, '_app', datastore_errors.BadArgumentError)
>  File "/home/i/dev/appe/google_appengine/google/appengine/api/
> datastore_types.py", line 97, in ValidateString
>raise exception('%s must not be empty.' % name)
> BadArgumentError: _app must not be empty.
> --
>
> Linux idle is not even reading my PYTHONPATH. :(
> >
>

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[google-appengine] Re: Model.put() Best Practice

[Feris Thia]

Hi Peter,

On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 9:49 PM, Peter Recore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> You really want
> to know how many simultaneous requests can be served, which is very
> different.
>

This is what I need to be confirmed. Thanks.



> This video should give you some ideas on how to properly load test a
> app engine app:
>
>
> http://sites.google.com/site/io/best-practices---building-a-production-quality-application-on-google-app-engine
>
> There are several other good app engine videos on io site as well -
> look for anything that mentions app engine in the name.
>

I have looked at the video and it provides the best practices, which is I
needed :)

Thanks,
Feris

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[google-appengine] Re: Programmatically retrieve quotas

[Marzia Niccolai]

Hi,

Currently we do not have an API to query quota usage, but if you think it
would be of use, please star the issue:
http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=655

-Marzia

On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 4:53 AM, nickcharb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> Hello,
>
> Is there a way to obtain GAE quotas (such as space used) from within
> GAE rather than manually through the dashboard?  I'd like to measure
> my usage within the app and make make decisions such as delete old
> entries if my space usage is close to the quota.
>
> Thanks,
> Nick
>
> >
>

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[google-appengine] Can I use key or id in gql?

[Evan Park]

Hello.
Can I use key or id of data in gql? I want to use like below.

class TopicCmt(db.Model):
topic   = db.ReferenceProperty(Topic, required=True)
owner   = db.ReferenceProperty(User, required=True)
user_name   = db.StringProperty(required=True)

def list(req):
except_list = [3, 10]
t = Topic.gql('WHERE ID != :1', except_list)

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[google-appengine] Programmatically retrieve quotas

[nickcharb]

Hello,

Is there a way to obtain GAE quotas (such as space used) from within
GAE rather than manually through the dashboard?  I'd like to measure
my usage within the app and make make decisions such as delete old
entries if my space usage is close to the quota.

Thanks,
Nick

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[google-appengine] Re: Encrypted Paypal Forms and supported python encryption libraries

[Tony Arkles]

Hmmm... that would probably run into CPU usage timeouts.

>From the pyDES page:

"The code below is not written for speed or performance, so not for
those needing a fast des implementation, but rather a handy portable
solution ideal for small usage. It takes my AMD2000+ machine 1 second
per 2.5 kilobyte to encrypt or decrypt using the DES method. Thats
very SLOW!! "


On Oct 5, 10:48 am, Kitahara <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi, Tito^^
>
> I have not tried, but I think pure python code is work.
>
> pyDES @ pure 
> python.http://pydes.cvs.sourceforge.net/viewvc/pydes/pyDes/pyDes_152_compat
> Official pyDEShttp://twhiteman.netfirms.com/des.html
>
> I think S/MIME too.
>
> Kosei.
>
> On Oct 5, 10:50 pm, Tito <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Hello,
>
> > I need to output an encrypted paypal form in google app engine. But I
> > couldn't find a package in the python standard library that can handle
> > S/MIME or Triple DES encryption.
>
> > As far as I know libraries such as M2Crypto (which runs on C modules
> > and SWIG) would not run on Google App Engine. Is this correct?
>
> > Do you know of any alternatives?
>
> > Thank you
> > Tito
>
>
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[google-appengine] Re: Model.put() Best Practice

[Peter Recore]

Feris,

I don't think your benchmark is testing what you really want to know.
You are testing how many puts *one request* can do.  You really want
to know how many simultaneous requests can be served, which is very
different.

This video should give you some ideas on how to properly load test a
app engine app:

http://sites.google.com/site/io/best-practices---building-a-production-quality-application-on-google-app-engine

There are several other good app engine videos on io site as well -
look for anything that mentions app engine in the name.

-peter


On Oct 7, 10:24 am, "Feris Thia" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Sylvain,
>
> On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 7:17 PM, Sylvain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > If you check the SDK, I think there is no real difference between
> > put(entity) or put(entities).
>
> > I don't think put(entities) will be a lot faster.
>
> Thanks for the info, I'm not quite good at Python right now so I'm not quite
> understand the GAE codebase.
>
>
>
> > Maybe in production, it is different
>
> Anyone can confirm to this ?
>
> Regards,
> Feris
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[google-appengine] Re: Model.put() Best Practice

[Feris Thia]

Hi Sylvain,
On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 7:17 PM, Sylvain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> If you check the SDK, I think there is no real difference between
> put(entity) or put(entities).
>
> I don't think put(entities) will be a lot faster.
>

Thanks for the info, I'm not quite good at Python right now so I'm not quite
understand the GAE codebase.



>
> Maybe in production, it is different
>

Anyone can confirm to this ?

Regards,
Feris

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[google-appengine] Can We use Unicode in Custom Tags?

[Gmail]

Current I Try to Use django's Custom Tags,
It is usful,I like it.

but when i try to render something Unicode ,
I got UnicodeDecodeError.

This is my Tag:
class PostA(template.Node):
def render(self, context):
p=context['p']  
return "%s" % 
(p.id,p.id,p.title)
def posta(parser, token):
return PostA()

in the template:
{%for p in paths%}
{%posta p.id p.title%}
{% endfor %}

paths is a list of Post
Post is my model:
class Post(db.Model):
id=db.StringProperty(required=True)
title = db.StringProperty(required=True)
path = db.StringProperty()

in the Handler:
template_values={
'title':p.title,
'paths':paths,
'content':p.content,
'relates':relates
}
return shortcuts.render_to_response("post.html",template_values)
So What your Idea?

I think there are something wrong in the shortcuts module when it is  
dealing whit unicode,
but i can not find it.
Any reply will be appreciated!

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[google-appengine] Re: GAE Obfuscator?

[Jorge Vargas]

On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 3:30 PM, Davide Rognoni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> A good obfuscator do not make a code more slow or bugged (see
> JavaScript obfuscators)
>
link?

seriously a javascript compressor is not an obfuscators, see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minify

that has a serious advantage as it reduces latency.

> See "Software patent debate"
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_patent_debate
>
> What is the big innovation of Google?
>
>
> On Oct 6, 2:11 pm, "Jorge Vargas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Which are stupid, make things run slower and sometimes get you weird
>> random bugs. After all in todays world your secret is not your code
>> but your company, just an example what is the big innovation of say
>> youtube?
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 4:49 AM, Davide Rognoni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> > The solution is in the title: "GAE Obfuscator"
>>
>> > On Oct 5, 5:44 am, "Jorge Vargas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >> On Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 3:32 AM, Davide Rognoni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> >> > Search the word "obfuscate"
>> >> >http://evolvingtrends.wordpress.com/2008/07/23/google-app-engine-thre...
>>
>> >> > """\
>> >> > There is one other serious issue with the Google appengine: relying on
>> >> > a predatory company like Google to host your startup's application
>> >> > could be very risky from a business point of view. Will Google allow
>> >> > you to upload obfuscated code or obfuscated Python byte code? Do they
>> >> > have access to your code? (yes) What if you have invested heavily in
>> >> > developing some commercial product that Google wants to copy or
>> >> > acquire? Will they have more leverage because they host your code?
>> >> > """
>>
>> >> And how is this different from hosting with someone else? or you plan
>> >> to plant your servers on your office?
>>
>> >> > On Oct 3, 11:13 pm, Davide Rognoni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >> >> Why Google can see my secret code?
>>
>> >> >> i.e.http://www.lysator.liu.se/~astrand/projects/pyobfuscate/
> >
>

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[google-appengine] Re: Why Google App Engine is broken and what Google must do to fix it.

[Jorge Vargas]

On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 9:20 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Jorge,
>
> One thing you have to remember it is not what Guido or the engineers
> want. If Google App Engine is to succeed it is what the customers
> want. If it is designed as you have stated it will never recoup what
> Google has spent so far let alone down the road. Google App Engine has
> so many many limitations.  Regardless if the limitations are by design
> or not it is virtually unusable by 99% of all developers. Can Google
> make a business off the remaining 1%?
>
Leaving aside your exaggeration on the numbers. You got it wrong, to
paraphrase the talk, BigTable and by extension GAE's db store, is
ablel to expand to infinity storage, the only possible limitation is
the number of machines it is configured to use and that can always be
expanded.
Which means these are not design limitations, they are resource
optimization. The restrictions are in place so you are encourage to
use resources efficiently. And they will be set higher in cases where
needed. An example is the "top gae applications" they had their quotas
raised.

Lets look at it from a performance perspective.

1- 1MB datastructure - which unit of data (leaving files outside)
should be bigger than 1mb? IMO that's a badly design datastore.
2- 1000 query limit, which user is going to want 1000 results?
3- Short CPU, it is common knowledge that a user will go away from a
page after 3 seconds of loading. so in order to eliminate this
bottleneck you use catching, after all if it's intensive to compute
it's worth catching.
4- Quotas in general, not even google has enough machines for us to waste.
5- Admin, a django junkie complaining for the lack of UI

The only concern where I agree is file upload, we do need a facility
to uplod videos or pdf or images or whatever we want, but that is
being worked out, same with SSL.

Funny that the OP didn't mention SSL as that IS a showstopper for a
LOT of applications
http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=15

> I think Google should pay much more attention to what the posters here
> are asking for and less on what they have "designed" App Engine for.
> Failure to listen to your customers is Always a Mistake! Defend it if
> you like. App Engine is going to be a huge money pit for Google.
> Engineers are terrible Businessmen and even worse Marketers Guido said
> as much in his talk.
>
> In the end Google is a publicly owned corporation and not a University
> and ultimately Google must answer to its customers and stockholders.
> The goal is to increase shareholder value through offering products
> and services the broad market demands and not basic research. App
> Engine in it's current form seems more like someone's thesis project
> more than a marketable computing platform.
>
> On Oct 6, 5:13 am, "Jorge Vargas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 4:47 AM, Aral Balkan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi Jorge,
>>
>> >> You clearly don't get must of the stuff you are talking about.
>>
>> >> ALL the quotas are there for you to be efficient they the whole
>> >> purpose, they are not hard coded to make your live bad they are in
>> >> there to make the system better.
>>
>> > I feel that you have missed the point of my post. Rest assured that I
>> > get the stuff I'm talking about.
>>
>> > Please re-read the post and you will see that it is not an attempt to
>> > bash Google App Engine. Quite the contrary, it is a simple summary of
>> > the issues encountered by one developer while developing a real-world
>> > application. The reason for the post is to highlight these issues so
>> > that they can be fixed and thus, ultimately, to improve Google App
>> > Engine.
>>
>> > As you can see from the replies here, and on the post, I am not the
>> > only one who has encountered these issues either.
>>
>> > We provide constructive criticism for the things that we care about so
>> > that they can evolve. I invite you to add value to the conversation
>> > and help make Google App Engine better.
>>
>> did you watch the video I posted? they are aware of anything you
>> propose, and half of them are non-fixable specially because they are
>> impositions made so the system won't crumble with bad code, the other
>> half are being worked on and as Guido suggested will probably be out
>> before the end of the year.
>>
>> > Aral
>
> >
>

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[google-appengine] Re: Model.put() Best Practice

[Sylvain]

If you check the SDK, I think there is no real difference between
put(entity) or put(entities).

I don't think put(entities) will be a lot faster.

Maybe in production, it is different


On 7 oct, 12:34, "Feris Thia" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I've spinned off this topic from the other thread 
> (http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine/browse_thread/thread/...
> ).
>
> From the thread, I use a put for 1000 loop test. The objective is to know
> how many puts can I have per second so  I can have a prediction on how many
> maximum user can access the site at the moment (preview edition).
>
> The code is shown below. And the result is around 12 - 27 puts per second.
> It is random, and I get cpu quota exceeded very easily.
>
> _DEBUG = True
>
> class Feris(db.Model):
>   pengarang = db.StringProperty()
>   content = db.StringProperty(multiline=True)
>   date = db.DateTimeProperty(auto_now_add=True)
>
> def test():
>   for i in range(1, 1000):
> ferisrecord = Feris(pengarang = "Feris Thia" + str(i), content="Great app" +
> str(i))
> ferisrecord.put()
>
> if __name__ == "__main__":
> #test()
>
> Now, my question is... what is the best practice to optimize the use of put
> ? Especially in case I need to insert/update several Model.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Feris
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[google-appengine] Re: Help: can you help validate MyApp / Datastore / Bigtable / GFS?

[David Symonds]

On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 6:10 PM, pr3d4t0r <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Can you please help me validate these assumptions and/or recommend
> corrections?  This is for a publication about Google App Engine that
> I'm working on and I'd like to gather the opinions of people who know
> better than me.  I'll be happy to credit you in the final publication.

Users of Bigtable don't always communicate through the BT master; they
usually go straight to the tablet server once they know which one they
need to talk to.


Dave.

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[google-appengine] Re: Eclipse auto-completion for response/request objects...

[lookon]

I have the same problem..

On Oct 7, 7:38 am, Drew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> After looking through this group I found this wonderful guide for
> setting up Eclipse to work with GAE/Python using Pydev:
>
> http://code.google.com/appengine/articles/eclipse.html
>
> However, after following the instructions and adding the indicated
> external source folders I'm still not getting auto-completion for the
> response/request objects - for example, if I type "self.response." I
> don't get any auto-completion for "out.write()" or something similar.
>
> I'm very new to Python and Eclipse, so it's entirely possible that I'm
> missing something easy. Below is a list of the external source folders
> I've added to my project:
>
> C:\Program Files\Google\google_appengine
> C:\Program Files\Google\google_appengine\lib\django
> C:\Program Files\Google\google_appengine\lib\webob
> C:\Program Files\Google\google_appengine\lib\yaml\lib
>
> Thanks in advance for any help you can offer,
> -Drew
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[google-appengine] Model.put() Best Practice

[Feris Thia]

Hi,

I've spinned off this topic from the other thread (
http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine/browse_thread/thread/4803d360fa62b5ea
).

>From the thread, I use a put for 1000 loop test. The objective is to know
how many puts can I have per second so  I can have a prediction on how many
maximum user can access the site at the moment (preview edition).

The code is shown below. And the result is around 12 - 27 puts per second.
It is random, and I get cpu quota exceeded very easily.

_DEBUG = True

class Feris(db.Model):
  pengarang = db.StringProperty()
  content = db.StringProperty(multiline=True)
  date = db.DateTimeProperty(auto_now_add=True)


def test():
  for i in range(1, 1000):
ferisrecord = Feris(pengarang = "Feris Thia" + str(i), content="Great app" +
str(i))
ferisrecord.put()

if __name__ == "__main__":
#test()

Now, my question is... what is the best practice to optimize the use of put
? Especially in case I need to insert/update several Model.

Thanks,

Feris

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[google-appengine] Re: Using naked domains (like http://example.com)

[Dennis]

Hi Jeff,

Can a Google Code GAE Issue be created for this so we can track it
(instead of doing searches in google groups)?




On Sep 10, 3:09 am, "Jeff S (Google)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> One question that we see a lot on the group is about setting up an app
> to serve from anakeddomain(http://example.com) While this has been
> difficult but not impossible in the past, we've made some changes and
> are no longer allowingnakeddomains to be used for App Engine apps.
> The infrastructure which we use will occasionally force TCP connection
> resets when an app is running on anakeddomain, so we're recommending
> that everyone switch to a subdomain (likehttp://www.example.com) and
> set up DNS redirects if you already have traffic going to anakeddomain.
>
> We'd like to provide this support in the future and are looking into
> potential workarounds, but it's not clear at this point how long that
> will take.  For now, if yourdomainregistrar supports URL redirects,
> you can redirect fromhttp://yourdomain.comto e.ghttp://www.yourdomain.com
> orhttp://appid.yourdomain.com. 
> (Fromhttp://code.google.com/appengine/kb/commontasks.html#naked_domain
> )
>
> Advice on setting up URL redirects from thenakeddomaincan be found
> in the 
> following:http://www.google.com/support/a/bin/answer.py?hl=en-in&answer=61057http://groups.google.com/group/apps-discuss/web/forwarding-to-google-...
>
> Thank you,
> Jeff
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[google-appengine] Help: can you help validate MyApp / Datastore / Bigtable / GFS?

[pr3d4t0r]

Greetings.

This is the logical view of the Datastore in relationship to Bigtable
and other components of the infrastructure, as seen from the
application's point of view:

http://eugeneciurana.com/personal/images/figure-6-1.png

Can you please help me validate these assumptions and/or recommend
corrections?  This is for a publication about Google App Engine that
I'm working on and I'd like to gather the opinions of people who know
better than me.  I'll be happy to credit you in the final publication.

Thanks in advance and have a fantastic day,

pr3d4t0r
http://www.istheserverup.com
http://www.ciurana.eu

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