[google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Steve]

-1

The best way to accomplish a task in GAE (at least in the python runtime) 
seems to change, often significantly, over time.  I find the groups to be a 
better format for moving targets like GAE and Stack Overflow better for 
more established topics.

--Steve

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[google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Daniel Florey]

I know that Google has grown to a large company and there may be many 
divisions not knowing each other well.
But from an outside view it is really sad that instead of fixing / 
improving existing Google products, teams are preferring an "easy 
workaround" like moving to Stack Overflow.
I've experienced this many times in different Google projects and this 
decision is by far not the worst example, but I don't think it is a good 
idea anyway.
It was great when Google worked on Wave using gwt, which lead to many 
improvements to gwt in a short time. Why not working closely with the guys 
working on groups to add the missing features?
I'd prefer to use all the services with my google account integrated into 
the navbar when working with the google stack.

So in short: Eat your own dog food ;-)

Daniel

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[google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[osrdg]

This is an excellent move ! 

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[google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Geoffrey Spear]

On Feb 8, 7:52 am, Johan Euphrosine  wrote:
> > I just think it would make perfectly sense to improve Groups to allow
> > users to rate posts and display the best answer on top etc.
> > Especially if you take into account that Groups is also used as the Google
> > Apps help system.
>
> Yes, I agree those would be very nice feature to have in groups.

Rating posts is a very nice feature we *did* have in groups. Someone
from the App Engine team needs to infiltrate the Groups team and put
it back.

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[google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Mauricio Aristizabal]

I like it!  I was already spending more time over at SO than here for 
AppEngine questions, and it's much easier to find what you're looking for 
there: The search results are better, and the related articles will often 
have what you needed if you didn't already find it.  Also, this should 
increase AppEngine awareness among the wider Python and Java developer 
communities that use SO heavily.

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[google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[MLTrim]

I'm a Stack Overflow user and I really appreciate this move; thank you
for this.
For the reluctant of this change, fiddle with Stack Overflow for a
couple of weeks and you'll be addicted.
Michele
[Systempuntoout]

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[google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Rick Mangi]

Ive gotten my head bit off on stack-overflow for answering a question
in a way that the reader didn't agree with, but then again, at least
people answer questions there. I've yet to have a question asked in
the GAE-java google group get answered. Most of them are just ignored.


On Feb 7, 3:32 pm, "Brandon Wirtz"  wrote:
> > Do you have examples of newbie questions that didn't get treated nicely on
> > Stack Overflow?
>
> Most have them have been cleaned up, but why do you think I don't hang out
> there?  D-Nice, Necronet and a few others have flamed me for asking simple
> questions, usually about "simple" Java things.
>
> So even when the answer looks nice in hind sight, the Realtime experience is
> shit.
>
>
>
> > I'm not aware of any trolls or poachers on the google-app-engine tag, and
> if
> > they were any their answers are likely to get downvoted by the community
> > (you!).
>
> You haven't been paying attention.  My guys get contacted through their
> OverFlow Specific email CONSTANTLY about other services, usually
> CloudFoundry related, but Generally 2-3 mails per post about Django, 10 if
> they post about a Java technology. They have gone to all sharing a single
> login for work stuff, to cut down on the spam.

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[google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Supercobra Thatbytes]

I think this is a terrible idea because it makes people check 2 places and 
subscribe to 2 boards. Newcomers to this discussion will have a hard time 
knowing about this.

App Engine team does put enough resources for community and customer 
support. I have a paid app and I cannot get my simple billing questions 
answered. In the billing interface, there is no link or phone # to use. 
Just a link to this forum... unless we pay become a Premier Account for 
$500 / month but first we need to talk to the sales team. Really? So 
desperate users in need of urgent help post questions on forums and if they 
make enough noise and show enough distress, others users help them and 
sometimes, in with their immense goodwill and too little available time, 
Google Engineers help too.

Google App Engine team says, 'well support is best effort around here or 
get a Premier Account'. I think this is not the way to do it. Together with 
Google engineers, WE make Google products what they are because of our deep 
involvement. 

This lack of support is general across most Google products. Our company 
uses many Google products that are now business critical for us: Google 
Apps for Business, Checkout, Analytics, and more. With all of those, if you 
have a problem, well, it's your problem because you cannot contact anyone. 

So is it hard to provide good support? Not for every company. We use Amazon 
S3 and Cloud Service. We are a little tiny customers for them. The other 
day we had a problem that brought down our SaaS app. Emergency. What do you 
do when that happens? Well, simple. On Amazon AWS console, click on 'call 
me I need help now' button and a human calls you within a minute. 

So Google: use a tiny portion of the immense net revenue to add more 
community and product support engineers. I bet that will improve the bottom 
line even further.

One last BIG concern. One of the things that first get dropped when a 
product is going to be retired (i.e. killed) is developer and community 
support. Java and Python appengine discussion groups are being deprecated 
and dev support is moved to Stack Overflow. That does not sound like App 
Engine is going forward to me. More like a huge red flag. Is App Engine 
business in danger?

Telling Google users to use Stack Overflow is the equivalent of displaying 
a big sign on Google Groups home page saying "use Stack Overflow, it's much 
better than what we have".

As other users suggested, Google should improve this forum software and 
make it work more like Stack Overflow and not move there... 




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[google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Daniel Florey]

Hi,
I've been thinking about the decision to move to SO for some more time and 
I'd like to give a more general feedback.

We are developing apps for the Google ecosystem using the Google dev stack 
(gwt, gae, galgwt, gdata api, google apps marketplace, chrome webstore etc.)
See: http://www.floreysoft.net/download/SS377-1109_floreysoft_v1.pdf
Beside our premier account for the apps running on our own domain we also 
have ~2000 clients running dedicated installations of our tools on app 
engine, many of them with billing enabled. So most of our generated revenue 
goes directly to the GAE team ;-)

As we are using many tools from Google, not just GAE, my perspective on the 
decision to move to SO may be slightly different than the GAE team's point 
of view:
In my daily life I already have to use different channels to get support 
from Google:
- For GAE related issues I've to use the Enterprise Support Portal using 
Salesforce.com
- Using ~20 Google groups for the other api's/projects
- Issue trackers for the different projects
- Mail/Chat with Google Dev Advocates
- Blogs/Google+

In general the support is good as most developers are very responsive. My 
main concern is that the different teams / projects are working quite 
isolated.
Working in smaller teams of course is more efficient and more fun, but when 
it comes to support I would prefer a single point of contact.
It would be perfect to be able to address any issue to the Enterprise 
Portal (or any other channel) and to trigger some kind of internal dispatch 
to the proper team.
Let me give you an example:
We are using the Google Java Stack (Google Plugin/GWT/GAE) to create our 
apps for multiple locales/browsers, GWT generates dozens of permutations of 
our app. As GAE only supports 150mb project size, we are hitting this limit 
- as you have to divide this limit by the number of permutations to get the 
"real" max app size. It would be possible to e.g. serve gwt fragments from 
the blobstore, but this would involve all the different teams.
I've been totally lost to find the appropriate channel to communicate this 
issue as every tool itself is working fine, just the combination of them 
causes the pain.

I wonder if there is anybody responsible for taking care of the big picture 
of the google dev tools. There are some indicators that there may be 
someone with the big plan (e.g. new api console, streamlined 
documentation), but there are many overlapping developments and new 
projects not really linked into each other (e.g. gitkit/appengine user 
service) that I'm still confused.
In general decisions regarding how to provide support should be made on a 
higher level. If Google decides to use SO as the primary channel for 
answering questions of developers, at least all projects providing dev 
tools should use SO.
Don't get me wrong: I still believe that the most brilliant minds are 
working for Google, but as Google rapidly grows, I have the feeling that 
especially the enterprise support is not yet adequate...and deciding on a 
per-team basis which channels to establish is the wrong move IMO.

Daniel

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[google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Daniel Florey]

I just realized that all the nice feature are already available in Google 
Groups. Checkout this post:
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/google-plus-developers/n0i53XYAM8E
 

You can see that the Google+ group has all the features enabled that we are 
talking about: Asking questions, rating answers, displaying best answer on 
top, tagging questions etc.
So it would easily be possible to create a GAE group that holds all the 
questions with different tags (java,python,datastore etc) and still keep 
the advantages of Google Group (number of new posts in group overview, 
seamless integration into the Google experience etc.)

The only valid argument left for the SO move IMO is that it may be a good 
way to convince java folks not yet addicted to GAE by flooding SO with GAE 
praising posts.
As it finally looks like a "marketing" driven decision to me I'm out of 
arguments and will patiently wait until sanity wins ;-)

Daniel

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[google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Francois Masurel]

Hey Daniel, you're right!

Googlers, why can't we have such nice rating tools for GAE groups?   It 
would be great.

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[google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Switch]

AdWords communities (6 languages) also just moved to a 3rd party platform:

www.en.adwords-community.com
www.de.adwords-community.com
etc.

Switch

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[google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Purmou]

All right! Start rolling in the herds.

Stack Overflow is an excellent community of highly dedicated programmers. 
You are very likely to get an answer to most of your questions *within a 
few hours*. There is such a powerful sense of friendliness on the site, 
which I think is valuable camaraderie among fellow programmers.

I believe you will all enjoy your time on Stack Overflow!

On Monday, February 6, 2012 6:14:54 PM UTC-8, Ikai Lan wrote:
>
> *Hi App Engine Developers,
>
> In the last few years, the Q&A website Stack 
> Overflowhas become an invaluable tool for 
> developer communities. We’re pleased to 
> announce that we are migrating to Stack Overflow as the official channel 
> for answering development questions about Google App Engine.The 
> google-appengine  group 
> will remain open for general discussions and announcements that are better 
> suited for the groups format.
>
> We believe that Stack Overflow is better platform for sharing knowledge 
> and answering support questions given its larger community, de-duping of 
> similar questions and contributor reputation system. We also expect that 
> App Engine developers will be able to contribute and benefit from the wider 
> range of language-related information not specific to App Engine. In 
> addition, due to Stack Overflow’s use of OpenID for account management, 
> developers will not need to create a new account to participate in the 
> discussion - developers will be able to log in with any of the identity 
> providers supported by Stack Overflow, including Google Accounts.
>
> We plan on deprecating the App Engine language-specific groups, namely 
> google-appengine-pythonand
>  
> google-appengine-java. 
> The 
> google-appengine-godiscussion
>  group will continue to remain open for at least as long as the 
> Go runtime is in experimental status. 
>
> The Python and Java groups will be placed into read-only on March 5th, 
> 2012. While answering technical questions, we will begin nudging developers 
> to ask their questions on Stack Overflow using the google-app-engine 
> tag
> .
>
> Please let us know if there are any questions or concerns about this 
> announcement.
>
> Happy coding!
>
> - Ikai Lan, on behalf of the App Engine team*
>

On Monday, February 6, 2012 6:14:54 PM UTC-8, Ikai Lan wrote:
>
> *Hi App Engine Developers,
>
> In the last few years, the Q&A website Stack 
> Overflowhas become an invaluable tool for 
> developer communities. We’re pleased to 
> announce that we are migrating to Stack Overflow as the official channel 
> for answering development questions about Google App Engine.The 
> google-appengine  group 
> will remain open for general discussions and announcements that are better 
> suited for the groups format.
>
> We believe that Stack Overflow is better platform for sharing knowledge 
> and answering support questions given its larger community, de-duping of 
> similar questions and contributor reputation system. We also expect that 
> App Engine developers will be able to contribute and benefit from the wider 
> range of language-related information not specific to App Engine. In 
> addition, due to Stack Overflow’s use of OpenID for account management, 
> developers will not need to create a new account to participate in the 
> discussion - developers will be able to log in with any of the identity 
> providers supported by Stack Overflow, including Google Accounts.
>
> We plan on deprecating the App Engine language-specific groups, namely 
> google-appengine-pythonand
>  
> google-appengine-java. 
> The 
> google-appengine-godiscussion
>  group will continue to remain open for at least as long as the 
> Go runtime is in experimental status. 
>
> The Python and Java groups will be placed into read-only on March 5th, 
> 2012. While answering technical questions, we will begin nudging developers 
> to ask their questions on Stack Overflow using the google-app-engine 
> tag
> .
>
> Please let us know if there are any questions or concerns about this 
> announcement.
>
> Happy coding!
>
> - Ikai Lan, on behalf of the App Engine team*
>

On Monday, February 6, 2012 6:14:54 PM UTC-8, Ikai Lan wrote:
>
> *Hi App Engine Developers,
>
> In the last few years, the Q&A website Stack 
> Overflowhas become an invaluable tool for 
> developer communitie

[google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[BigMouth Li]

Ikai Lan於 2012年2月7日星期二UTC+8上午10時14分54秒寫道：
>
> *Hi App Engine Developers,
>
> In the last few years, the Q&A website Stack 
> Overflowhas become an invaluable tool for 
> developer communities. We’re pleased to 
> announce that we are migrating to Stack Overflow as the official channel 
> for answering development questions about Google App Engine.The 
> google-appengine  group 
> will remain open for general discussions and announcements that are better 
> suited for the groups format.
>
> We believe that Stack Overflow is better platform for sharing knowledge 
> and answering support questions given its larger community, de-duping of 
> similar questions and contributor reputation system. We also expect that 
> App Engine developers will be able to contribute and benefit from the wider 
> range of language-related information not specific to App Engine. In 
> addition, due to Stack Overflow’s use of OpenID for account management, 
> developers will not need to create a new account to participate in the 
> discussion - developers will be able to log in with any of the identity 
> providers supported by Stack Overflow, including Google Accounts.
>
> We plan on deprecating the App Engine language-specific groups, namely 
> google-appengine-pythonand
>  
> google-appengine-java. 
> The 
> google-appengine-godiscussion
>  group will continue to remain open for at least as long as the 
> Go runtime is in experimental status. 
>
> The Python and Java groups will be placed into read-only on March 5th, 
> 2012. While answering technical questions, we will begin nudging developers 
> to ask their questions on Stack Overflow using the google-app-engine 
> tag
> .
>
> Please let us know if there are any questions or concerns about this 
> announcement.
>
> Happy coding!
>
> - Ikai Lan, on behalf of the App Engine team*
>

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[google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[quincy....@gmail.com]

On Monday, February 6, 2012 6:14:54 PM UTC-8, Ikai Lan wrote:
>
> *Hi App Engine Developers,
>
> In the last few years, the Q&A website Stack 
> Overflowhas become an invaluable tool for 
> developer communities. We’re pleased to 
> announce that we are migrating to Stack Overflow as the official channel 
> for answering development questions about Google App Engine.The 
> google-appengine  group 
> will remain open for general discussions and announcements that are better 
> suited for the groups format.
>
> We believe that Stack Overflow is better platform for sharing knowledge 
> and answering support questions given its larger community, de-duping of 
> similar questions and contributor reputation system. We also expect that 
> App Engine developers will be able to contribute and benefit from the wider 
> range of language-related information not specific to App Engine. In 
> addition, due to Stack Overflow’s use of OpenID for account management, 
> developers will not need to create a new account to participate in the 
> discussion - developers will be able to log in with any of the identity 
> providers supported by Stack Overflow, including Google Accounts.
>
> We plan on deprecating the App Engine language-specific groups, namely 
> google-appengine-pythonand
>  
> google-appengine-java. 
> The 
> google-appengine-godiscussion
>  group will continue to remain open for at least as long as the 
> Go runtime is in experimental status. 
>
> The Python and Java groups will be placed into read-only on March 5th, 
> 2012. While answering technical questions, we will begin nudging developers 
> to ask their questions on Stack Overflow using the google-app-engine 
> tag
> .
>
> Please let us know if there are any questions or concerns about this 
> announcement.
>
> Happy coding!
>
> - Ikai Lan, on behalf of the App Engine team*
>

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[google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[R kamalakkannan]

what is sq125?
it is how to convert user understand format ?

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[google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Gary Frederick]

I just asked a quesition on stackoverflow
  
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9992726/how-do-we-get-app-engine-to-email-an-invite-to-be-a-developer

and found the answer

and tried to add it as an answer rather than a comment.

and got this

Oops! Your answer couldn't be submitted because:

   - Users with less than 100 reputation can't answer their own question 
   for 8 hours after asking. You may self-answer in 7 hours. Until then please 
   use comments, or edit your question instead.



The reason my reputation is under 100 is when a few of the top moderators 
for App Inventor tried to use stackoverflow the police kept removing posts. 
That was 'interesting' because we could answer questions about App Inventor 
and found the police to be to restrictive when they did not have 
anything useful for folks that had questions.


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[google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[josh cole]

 i go with steve

On Monday, February 6, 2012 8:14:54 PM UTC-6, Ikai Lan wrote:
>
> *Hi App Engine Developers,
>
> In the last few years, the Q&A website Stack 
> Overflowhas become an invaluable tool for 
> developer communities. We’re pleased to 
> announce that we are migrating to Stack Overflow as the official channel 
> for answering development questions about Google App Engine.The 
> google-appengine  group 
> will remain open for general discussions and announcements that are better 
> suited for the groups format.
>
> We believe that Stack Overflow is better platform for sharing knowledge 
> and answering support questions given its larger community, de-duping of 
> similar questions and contributor reputation system. We also expect that 
> App Engine developers will be able to contribute and benefit from the wider 
> range of language-related information not specific to App Engine. In 
> addition, due to Stack Overflow’s use of OpenID for account management, 
> developers will not need to create a new account to participate in the 
> discussion - developers will be able to log in with any of the identity 
> providers supported by Stack Overflow, including Google Accounts.
>
> We plan on deprecating the App Engine language-specific groups, namely 
> google-appengine-pythonand
>  
> google-appengine-java. 
> The 
> google-appengine-godiscussion
>  group will continue to remain open for at least as long as the 
> Go runtime is in experimental status. 
>
> The Python and Java groups will be placed into read-only on March 5th, 
> 2012. While answering technical questions, we will begin nudging developers 
> to ask their questions on Stack Overflow using the google-app-engine 
> tag
> .
>
> Please let us know if there are any questions or concerns about this 
> announcement.
>
> Happy coding!
>
> - Ikai Lan, on behalf of the App Engine team*
>

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[google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Ashraful Rajon]

On Tuesday, February 7, 2012 8:14:54 AM UTC+6, Ikai Lan wrote:
>
> *Hi App Engine Developers,
>
> In the last few years, the Q&A website Stack 
> Overflowhas become an invaluable tool for 
> developer communities. We’re pleased to 
> announce that we are migrating to Stack Overflow as the official channel 
> for answering development questions about Google App Engine.The 
> google-appengine  group 
> will remain open for general discussions and announcements that are better 
> suited for the groups format.
>
> We believe that Stack Overflow is better platform for sharing knowledge 
> and answering support questions given its larger community, de-duping of 
> similar questions and contributor reputation system. We also expect that 
> App Engine developers will be able to contribute and benefit from the wider 
> range of language-related information not specific to App Engine. In 
> addition, due to Stack Overflow’s use of OpenID for account management, 
> developers will not need to create a new account to participate in the 
> discussion - developers will be able to log in with any of the identity 
> providers supported by Stack Overflow, including Google Accounts.
>
> We plan on deprecating the App Engine language-specific groups, namely 
> google-appengine-pythonand
>  
> google-appengine-java. 
> The 
> google-appengine-godiscussion
>  group will continue to remain open for at least as long as the 
> Go runtime is in experimental status. 
>
> The Python and Java groups will be placed into read-only on March 5th, 
> 2012. While answering technical questions, we will begin nudging developers 
> to ask their questions on Stack Overflow using the google-app-engine 
> tag
> .
>
> Please let us know if there are any questions or concerns about this 
> announcement.
>
> Happy coding!
>
> - Ikai Lan, on behalf of the App Engine team*
>

-- 
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[google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Ashraful Rajon]

On Tuesday, February 7, 2012 8:14:54 AM UTC+6, Ikai Lan wrote:
>
> *Hi App Engine Developers,
>
> In the last few years, the Q&A website Stack 
> Overflowhas become an invaluable tool for 
> developer communities. We’re pleased to 
> announce that we are migrating to Stack Overflow as the official channel 
> for answering development questions about Google App Engine.The 
> google-appengine  group 
> will remain open for general discussions and announcements that are better 
> suited for the groups format.
>
> We believe that Stack Overflow is better platform for sharing knowledge 
> and answering support questions given its larger community, de-duping of 
> similar questions and contributor reputation system. We also expect that 
> App Engine developers will be able to contribute and benefit from the wider 
> range of language-related information not specific to App Engine. In 
> addition, due to Stack Overflow’s use of OpenID for account management, 
> developers will not need to create a new account to participate in the 
> discussion - developers will be able to log in with any of the identity 
> providers supported by Stack Overflow, including Google Accounts.
>
> We plan on deprecating the App Engine language-specific groups, namely 
> google-appengine-pythonand
>  
> google-appengine-java. 
> The 
> google-appengine-godiscussion
>  group will continue to remain open for at least as long as the 
> Go runtime is in experimental status. 
>
> The Python and Java groups will be placed into read-only on March 5th, 
> 2012. While answering technical questions, we will begin nudging developers 
> to ask their questions on Stack Overflow using the google-app-engine 
> tag
> .
>
> Please let us know if there are any questions or concerns about this 
> announcement.
>
> Happy coding!
>
> - Ikai Lan, on behalf of the App Engine team*
>

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,,* My Contacts ::: Starred in Android ::: BFR,,,http://www.google.com/profiles/106070490774681003585
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,,* My Contacts ::: Starred in Android ::: BFR,,,http://www.google.com/profiles/110924060789171264851
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,,* My Contacts ::: Starred in Android ::: BFR,,,http://www.google.com/profiles/101571483150813305324
,,* My Contacts ::: St

[google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Chuck Ocheret]

This would be fine with me if someone from Google would actually answer our 
questions on Stack Overflow. ;-)

On Monday, February 6, 2012 9:14:54 PM UTC-5, Ikai Lan wrote:
>
> *Hi App Engine Developers,
>
> In the last few years, the Q&A website Stack 
> Overflowhas become an invaluable tool for 
> developer communities. We’re pleased to 
> announce that we are migrating to Stack Overflow as the official channel 
> for answering development questions about Google App Engine.The 
> google-appengine  group 
> will remain open for general discussions and announcements that are better 
> suited for the groups format.
>
> We believe that Stack Overflow is better platform for sharing knowledge 
> and answering support questions given its larger community, de-duping of 
> similar questions and contributor reputation system. We also expect that 
> App Engine developers will be able to contribute and benefit from the wider 
> range of language-related information not specific to App Engine. In 
> addition, due to Stack Overflow’s use of OpenID for account management, 
> developers will not need to create a new account to participate in the 
> discussion - developers will be able to log in with any of the identity 
> providers supported by Stack Overflow, including Google Accounts.
>
> We plan on deprecating the App Engine language-specific groups, namely 
> google-appengine-pythonand
>  
> google-appengine-java. 
> The 
> google-appengine-godiscussion
>  group will continue to remain open for at least as long as the 
> Go runtime is in experimental status. 
>
> The Python and Java groups will be placed into read-only on March 5th, 
> 2012. While answering technical questions, we will begin nudging developers 
> to ask their questions on Stack Overflow using the google-app-engine 
> tag
> .
>
> Please let us know if there are any questions or concerns about this 
> announcement.
>
> Happy coding!
>
> - Ikai Lan, on behalf of the App Engine team*
>

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[google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Geoffrey Spear]

On Saturday, March 9, 2013 12:50:05 AM UTC-5, Chuck Ocheret wrote:
>
> This would be fine with me if someone from Google would actually answer 
> our questions on Stack Overflow. ;-)
>
>
To be fair, even before the change, the majority of answers to technical 
questions on the appengine-python list weren't from Google employees anyway 
(I don't know about the Java list.) 

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[google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[payala]

This would be fine if someone answered questions, I find appengine related 
questions on stackoverflow have a pretty high chance to go unanswered if 
they are not dead-simple.

El martes, 7 de febrero de 2012 03:14:54 UTC+1, Ikai Lan escribió:
>
> *Hi App Engine Developers,
>
> In the last few years, the Q&A website Stack 
> Overflowhas become an invaluable tool for 
> developer communities. We’re pleased to 
> announce that we are migrating to Stack Overflow as the official channel 
> for answering development questions about Google App Engine.The 
> google-appengine  group 
> will remain open for general discussions and announcements that are better 
> suited for the groups format.
>
> We believe that Stack Overflow is better platform for sharing knowledge 
> and answering support questions given its larger community, de-duping of 
> similar questions and contributor reputation system. We also expect that 
> App Engine developers will be able to contribute and benefit from the wider 
> range of language-related information not specific to App Engine. In 
> addition, due to Stack Overflow’s use of OpenID for account management, 
> developers will not need to create a new account to participate in the 
> discussion - developers will be able to log in with any of the identity 
> providers supported by Stack Overflow, including Google Accounts.
>
> We plan on deprecating the App Engine language-specific groups, namely 
> google-appengine-pythonand
>  
> google-appengine-java. 
> The 
> google-appengine-godiscussion
>  group will continue to remain open for at least as long as the 
> Go runtime is in experimental status. 
>
> The Python and Java groups will be placed into read-only on March 5th, 
> 2012. While answering technical questions, we will begin nudging developers 
> to ask their questions on Stack Overflow using the google-app-engine 
> tag
> .
>
> Please let us know if there are any questions or concerns about this 
> announcement.
>
> Happy coding!
>
> - Ikai Lan, on behalf of the App Engine team*
>

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[google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Hooman Korasani]

-1 
Stackoverflow has a very strict FAQ rules, and questions are easily 
closed.  I don't think it is a good idea to move support to that platform.


On Tuesday, 7 February 2012 02:14:54 UTC, Ikai Lan wrote:
>
> *Hi App Engine Developers,
>
> In the last few years, the Q&A website Stack 
> Overflowhas become an invaluable tool for 
> developer communities. We’re pleased to 
> announce that we are migrating to Stack Overflow as the official channel 
> for answering development questions about Google App Engine.The 
> google-appengine  group 
> will remain open for general discussions and announcements that are better 
> suited for the groups format.
>
> We believe that Stack Overflow is better platform for sharing knowledge 
> and answering support questions given its larger community, de-duping of 
> similar questions and contributor reputation system. We also expect that 
> App Engine developers will be able to contribute and benefit from the wider 
> range of language-related information not specific to App Engine. In 
> addition, due to Stack Overflow’s use of OpenID for account management, 
> developers will not need to create a new account to participate in the 
> discussion - developers will be able to log in with any of the identity 
> providers supported by Stack Overflow, including Google Accounts.
>
> We plan on deprecating the App Engine language-specific groups, namely 
> google-appengine-pythonand
>  
> google-appengine-java. 
> The 
> google-appengine-godiscussion
>  group will continue to remain open for at least as long as the 
> Go runtime is in experimental status. 
>
> The Python and Java groups will be placed into read-only on March 5th, 
> 2012. While answering technical questions, we will begin nudging developers 
> to ask their questions on Stack Overflow using the google-app-engine 
> tag
> .
>
> Please let us know if there are any questions or concerns about this 
> announcement.
>
> Happy coding!
>
> - Ikai Lan, on behalf of the App Engine team*
>

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[google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[rcp]

-1 from an 'enthusiast programmer'; SO considers me un-washed despite my 
relentless effort to be concise and precise.


On Monday, February 6, 2012 6:14:54 PM UTC-8, Ikai Lan wrote:
>
> *Hi App Engine Developers,
>
> In the last few years, the Q&A website Stack 
> Overflowhas become an invaluable tool for 
> developer communities. We’re pleased to 
> announce that we are migrating to Stack Overflow as the official channel 
> for answering development questions about Google App Engine.The 
> google-appengine  group 
> will remain open for general discussions and announcements that are better 
> suited for the groups format.
>
> We believe that Stack Overflow is better platform for sharing knowledge 
> and answering support questions given its larger community, de-duping of 
> similar questions and contributor reputation system. We also expect that 
> App Engine developers will be able to contribute and benefit from the wider 
> range of language-related information not specific to App Engine. In 
> addition, due to Stack Overflow’s use of OpenID for account management, 
> developers will not need to create a new account to participate in the 
> discussion - developers will be able to log in with any of the identity 
> providers supported by Stack Overflow, including Google Accounts.
>
> We plan on deprecating the App Engine language-specific groups, namely 
> google-appengine-pythonand
>  
> google-appengine-java. 
> The 
> google-appengine-godiscussion
>  group will continue to remain open for at least as long as the 
> Go runtime is in experimental status. 
>
> The Python and Java groups will be placed into read-only on March 5th, 
> 2012. While answering technical questions, we will begin nudging developers 
> to ask their questions on Stack Overflow using the google-app-engine 
> tag
> .
>
> Please let us know if there are any questions or concerns about this 
> announcement.
>
> Happy coding!
>
> - Ikai Lan, on behalf of the App Engine team*
>

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[google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Kaan Soral]

S.O. is a great source for clear solutions - mostly from google hits
However as you mentioned they seriously have some issues, definitely not a 
great place for support, I also hate asking a question and explaining the 
reasons to a bunch of religious programmers (religious as in illogically 
fanatical about ideals of something)
Mostly a good place for 2+2=? type of questions

On Friday, October 4, 2013 6:06:09 AM UTC+3, rcp wrote:
>
> -1 from an 'enthusiast programmer'; SO considers me un-washed despite my 
> relentless effort to be concise and precise.
>
>
> On Monday, February 6, 2012 6:14:54 PM UTC-8, Ikai Lan wrote:
>>
>> *Hi App Engine Developers,
>>
>> In the last few years, the Q&A website Stack 
>> Overflowhas become an invaluable tool for 
>> developer communities. We’re pleased to 
>> announce that we are migrating to Stack Overflow as the official channel 
>> for answering development questions about Google App Engine.The 
>> google-appengine  group 
>> will remain open for general discussions and announcements that are better 
>> suited for the groups format.
>>
>> We believe that Stack Overflow is better platform for sharing knowledge 
>> and answering support questions given its larger community, de-duping of 
>> similar questions and contributor reputation system. We also expect that 
>> App Engine developers will be able to contribute and benefit from the wider 
>> range of language-related information not specific to App Engine. In 
>> addition, due to Stack Overflow’s use of OpenID for account management, 
>> developers will not need to create a new account to participate in the 
>> discussion - developers will be able to log in with any of the identity 
>> providers supported by Stack Overflow, including Google Accounts.
>>
>> We plan on deprecating the App Engine language-specific groups, namely 
>> google-appengine-pythonand
>>  
>> google-appengine-java. 
>> The 
>> google-appengine-godiscussion
>>  group will continue to remain open for at least as long as the 
>> Go runtime is in experimental status. 
>>
>> The Python and Java groups will be placed into read-only on March 5th, 
>> 2012. While answering technical questions, we will begin nudging developers 
>> to ask their questions on Stack Overflow using the google-app-engine 
>> tag
>> .
>>
>> Please let us know if there are any questions or concerns about this 
>> announcement.
>>
>> Happy coding!
>>
>> - Ikai Lan, on behalf of the App Engine team*
>>
>

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[google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Aayush Anand]

hi.. I am an aspirant of GSOC '14.
I did register as student and submitted my proposal. But yesterday when i tried 
to login, I found that my access is suspended only to GSOC. I was redirected to 
the page saying "If you've been redirected to this page from a particular 
product, it means that your access to this product has been suspended." 
(https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/40039?p=ah)

i talked with google voice at GSOC forum and then from Melange developers. 
Melange developers informed me that Melange uses App Engine for user 
authentication and management and so asked me to check if i can log in to it or 
not.
when i tried to log in to it, i faced the same problem. so they hypothesize 
that even when i visit google-melange.com i am getting blocked by App Engine 
before App Engine even passes my request to Melange.

please see to this.. i have really worked so hard for it. my all hard work will 
go in vain if my account is not restored within few hours. please help me out. 
student registration will end in 10 hours.

i would also like to share the incident from when i am facing this issue.
actually my GSOC profile was open and was left static in a tab. so that if i 
get any reply on my proposal, i can respond to it asap
at the same time i was working to fix a bug for the organisation for whom i 
would like to work, on other tabs. This bug was relate to indifferent behavior 
on session out. to recreate that bug i was deleting the cookies again and 
again. after some time when i went back to my GSOC page and refereshed it, i 
was redirected to that page saying "my access is suspended". and from then i am 
facing this problem.

Melange-developers hypothesized that App Engine has somehow mistaken the 
cookie-clearing behavior as i have described as possibly nefarious and spammy 
and put a block on me.

please remove my block.. you can bug-fix this issue later but please remove my 
block first.. i don't have time. student registration will end in few hours.

i am posting it here to get your attention.

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[google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Clark Van Oyen]

I'm not having a lot of luck getting a response on SO, since apparently not 
all App Engine discussions are related to "programming"...

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/28285552/being-flooded-with-traffic-and-the-remote-ip-reported-in-app-engine-logs-as-sta?noredirect=1#comment44925358_28285552

On Monday, 6 February 2012 18:14:54 UTC-8, Ikai Lan wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Hi App Engine Developers,In the last few years, the Q&A website Stack 
> Overflow  has become an invaluable tool for 
> developer communities. We’re pleased to announce that we are migrating to 
> Stack Overflow as the official channel for answering development questions 
> about Google App Engine.The google-appengine 
>  group will remain open 
> for general discussions and announcements that are better suited for the 
> groups format.We believe that Stack Overflow is better platform for sharing 
> knowledge and answering support questions given its larger community, 
> de-duping of similar questions and contributor reputation system. We also 
> expect that App Engine developers will be able to contribute and benefit 
> from the wider range of language-related information not specific to App 
> Engine. In addition, due to Stack Overflow’s use of OpenID for account 
> management, developers will not need to create a new account to participate 
> in the discussion - developers will be able to log in with any of the 
> identity providers supported by Stack Overflow, including Google 
> Accounts.We plan on deprecating the App Engine language-specific groups, 
> namely google-appengine-python 
>  and 
> google-appengine-java 
> . The 
> google-appengine-go 
>  
> discussion group will continue to remain open for at least as long as the 
> Go runtime is in experimental status. The Python and Java groups will be 
> placed into read-only on March 5th, 2012. While answering technical 
> questions, we will begin nudging developers to ask their questions on Stack 
> Overflow using the google-app-engine tag 
> .Please let us 
> know if there are any questions or concerns about this announcement.Happy 
> coding!- Ikai Lan, on behalf of the App Engine team*
>

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[google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Alex Martelli]

Hi Clark,

right -- *some* questions are system administration, so my plan (and I'm 
pushing as hard as I can to make this happen soon!) is to use tag 
google-cloud-platform on ServerFault for sysadm Qs (whether on GAE or any 
other parts of GCP).  I just recently (<2 months, inc. holidays &c) 
switched jobs within Google to "1:many tech support for cloud", and so far 
I've been "drinking from the firehose" listening and learning more than 
_doing_, but, the "bias for action" is taking over:-), but, I hope to make 
this happen ASAP (the great things about priorities is that you can always 
juggle them around to justify spending your time on what you think needs to 
be done *right now*...!-).


Thanks,

Alex


On Monday, February 2, 2015 at 12:10:14 PM UTC-8, Clark Van Oyen wrote:
>
> I'm not having a lot of luck getting a response on SO, since apparently 
> not all App Engine discussions are related to "programming"...
>
>
> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/28285552/being-flooded-with-traffic-and-the-remote-ip-reported-in-app-engine-logs-as-sta?noredirect=1#comment44925358_28285552
>  
> 
>
> On Monday, 6 February 2012 18:14:54 UTC-8, Ikai Lan wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Hi App Engine Developers,In the last few years, the Q&A website Stack 
>> Overflow  has become an invaluable tool for 
>> developer communities. We’re pleased to announce that we are migrating to 
>> Stack Overflow as the official channel for answering development questions 
>> about Google App Engine.The google-appengine 
>>  group will remain open 
>> for general discussions and announcements that are better suited for the 
>> groups format.We believe that Stack Overflow is better platform for sharing 
>> knowledge and answering support questions given its larger community, 
>> de-duping of similar questions and contributor reputation system. We also 
>> expect that App Engine developers will be able to contribute and benefit 
>> from the wider range of language-related information not specific to App 
>> Engine. In addition, due to Stack Overflow’s use of OpenID for account 
>> management, developers will not need to create a new account to participate 
>> in the discussion - developers will be able to log in with any of the 
>> identity providers supported by Stack Overflow, including Google 
>> Accounts.We plan on deprecating the App Engine language-specific groups, 
>> namely google-appengine-python 
>>  and 
>> google-appengine-java 
>> . The 
>> google-appengine-go 
>>  
>> discussion group will continue to remain open for at least as long as the 
>> Go runtime is in experimental status. The Python and Java groups will be 
>> placed into read-only on March 5th, 2012. While answering technical 
>> questions, we will begin nudging developers to ask their questions on Stack 
>> Overflow using the google-app-engine tag 
>> .Please let us 
>> know if there are any questions or concerns about this announcement.Happy 
>> coding!- Ikai Lan, on behalf of the App Engine team*
>>
>

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[google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Clark Van Oyen]

Great idea! Agreed, on it being a great thing that we can recursively 
define priorities within an established set of priorities in order to 
arrive at one deterministic path :) Best of luck in your new job!

On Wednesday, 4 February 2015 18:13:29 UTC-8, Alex Martelli wrote:
>
> Hi Clark,
>
> right -- *some* questions are system administration, so my plan (and I'm 
> pushing as hard as I can to make this happen soon!) is to use tag 
> google-cloud-platform on ServerFault for sysadm Qs (whether on GAE or any 
> other parts of GCP).  I just recently (<2 months, inc. holidays &c) 
> switched jobs within Google to "1:many tech support for cloud", and so far 
> I've been "drinking from the firehose" listening and learning more than 
> _doing_, but, the "bias for action" is taking over:-), but, I hope to make 
> this happen ASAP (the great things about priorities is that you can always 
> juggle them around to justify spending your time on what you think needs to 
> be done *right now*...!-).
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Alex
>
>
> On Monday, February 2, 2015 at 12:10:14 PM UTC-8, Clark Van Oyen wrote:
>>
>> I'm not having a lot of luck getting a response on SO, since apparently 
>> not all App Engine discussions are related to "programming"...
>>
>>
>> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/28285552/being-flooded-with-traffic-and-the-remote-ip-reported-in-app-engine-logs-as-sta?noredirect=1#comment44925358_28285552
>>  
>> 
>>
>> On Monday, 6 February 2012 18:14:54 UTC-8, Ikai Lan wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Hi App Engine Developers,In the last few years, the Q&A website Stack 
>>> Overflow  has become an invaluable tool for 
>>> developer communities. We’re pleased to announce that we are migrating to 
>>> Stack Overflow as the official channel for answering development questions 
>>> about Google App Engine.The google-appengine 
>>>  group will remain open 
>>> for general discussions and announcements that are better suited for the 
>>> groups format.We believe that Stack Overflow is better platform for sharing 
>>> knowledge and answering support questions given its larger community, 
>>> de-duping of similar questions and contributor reputation system. We also 
>>> expect that App Engine developers will be able to contribute and benefit 
>>> from the wider range of language-related information not specific to App 
>>> Engine. In addition, due to Stack Overflow’s use of OpenID for account 
>>> management, developers will not need to create a new account to participate 
>>> in the discussion - developers will be able to log in with any of the 
>>> identity providers supported by Stack Overflow, including Google 
>>> Accounts.We plan on deprecating the App Engine language-specific groups, 
>>> namely google-appengine-python 
>>>  and 
>>> google-appengine-java 
>>> . The 
>>> google-appengine-go 
>>>  
>>> discussion group will continue to remain open for at least as long as the 
>>> Go runtime is in experimental status. The Python and Java groups will be 
>>> placed into read-only on March 5th, 2012. While answering technical 
>>> questions, we will begin nudging developers to ask their questions on Stack 
>>> Overflow using the google-app-engine tag 
>>> .Please let us 
>>> know if there are any questions or concerns about this announcement.Happy 
>>> coding!- Ikai Lan, on behalf of the App Engine team*
>>>
>>

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Maxim Lacrima]

I agree with Steve.

On 7 February 2012 06:30, Steve  wrote:

> -1
>
> The best way to accomplish a task in GAE (at least in the python runtime)
> seems to change, often significantly, over time.  I find the groups to be a
> better format for moving targets like GAE and Stack Overflow better for
> more established topics.
>
> --Steve
>
>  --
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>
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>



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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Prashant]

I also agree with Steve.

On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Maxim Lacrima wrote:

> I agree with Steve.
>
>
> On 7 February 2012 06:30, Steve  wrote:
>
>> -1
>>
>> The best way to accomplish a task in GAE (at least in the python runtime)
>> seems to change, often significantly, over time.  I find the groups to be a
>> better format for moving targets like GAE and Stack Overflow better for
>> more established topics.
>>
>> --Steve
>>
>>  --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Google App Engine" group.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-appengine/-/Nz8BSKdG0KYJ.
>>
>> To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> with regards,
> Maxim
>
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Johan Euphrosine]

Hi Steve,

While I'll agree that experimental feature might be subject to change
and deprecation, all the stable API [1] are here to stay and are
subject to the 3 years deprecation policy [2].

Also note that Stack Overflow questions and anwers can be edited over
time (like a wiki), unlike the groups where it is really difficult to
surface and update interesting content without creating a new thread.

[1] http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/features.html
[2] http://code.google.com/appengine/terms.html

On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 5:30 AM, Steve  wrote:
> -1
>
> The best way to accomplish a task in GAE (at least in the python runtime)
> seems to change, often significantly, over time.  I find the groups to be a
> better format for moving targets like GAE and Stack Overflow better for more
> established topics.
>
> --Steve
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Google App Engine" group.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-appengine/-/Nz8BSKdG0KYJ.
>
> To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.



-- 
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Developer Programs Engineer
Google Developer Relations

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Leandro Rezende]

-1
I loved waking up every morning and check the emails from this group, i
always read almost everything, not even knowing what it is about, only to
learn more about GAE, future problens i will have and future solutions
.
As a beginner, i would lose much if the group ends. =(

2012/2/7 Johan Euphrosine 

> Hi Steve,
>
> While I'll agree that experimental feature might be subject to change
> and deprecation, all the stable API [1] are here to stay and are
> subject to the 3 years deprecation policy [2].
>
> Also note that Stack Overflow questions and anwers can be edited over
> time (like a wiki), unlike the groups where it is really difficult to
> surface and update interesting content without creating a new thread.
>
> [1] http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/features.html
> [2] http://code.google.com/appengine/terms.html
>
> On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 5:30 AM, Steve 
> wrote:
> > -1
> >
> > The best way to accomplish a task in GAE (at least in the python runtime)
> > seems to change, often significantly, over time.  I find the groups to
> be a
> > better format for moving targets like GAE and Stack Overflow better for
> more
> > established topics.
> >
> > --Steve
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Google App Engine" group.
> > To view this discussion on the web visit
> > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-appengine/-/Nz8BSKdG0KYJ.
> >
> > To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit this group at
> > http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
>
>
>
> --
> Johan Euphrosine (proppy)
> Developer Programs Engineer
> Google Developer Relations
>
> --
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>
>

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Johan Euphrosine]

Hi Leandro,

Note that we do not plan to deprecate google-appengine@ group (only
the language specific groups google-appengine-python@ and
google-appengine-java@ where most posts fit the stack overflow Q&A
model).

You can also follow Stack Overflow by email by subscribing to a tag
[1], or with your prefered news reader through RSS [2].

Hope that helps.

[1] Over the google-appengine tag and click subscribe
[2] http://stackoverflow.com/feeds/tag/google-app-engine

On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 12:37 PM, Leandro Rezende
 wrote:
> -1
> I loved waking up every morning and check the emails from this group, i
> always read almost everything, not even knowing what it is about, only to
> learn more about GAE, future problens i will have and future solutions
> .
> As a beginner, i would lose much if the group ends. =(
>
>
> 2012/2/7 Johan Euphrosine 
>>
>> Hi Steve,
>>
>> While I'll agree that experimental feature might be subject to change
>> and deprecation, all the stable API [1] are here to stay and are
>> subject to the 3 years deprecation policy [2].
>>
>> Also note that Stack Overflow questions and anwers can be edited over
>> time (like a wiki), unlike the groups where it is really difficult to
>> surface and update interesting content without creating a new thread.
>>
>> [1] http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/features.html
>> [2] http://code.google.com/appengine/terms.html
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 5:30 AM, Steve 
>> wrote:
>> > -1
>> >
>> > The best way to accomplish a task in GAE (at least in the python
>> > runtime)
>> > seems to change, often significantly, over time.  I find the groups to
>> > be a
>> > better format for moving targets like GAE and Stack Overflow better for
>> > more
>> > established topics.
>> >
>> > --Steve
>> >
>> > --
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> > Groups
>> > "Google App Engine" group.
>> > To view this discussion on the web visit
>> > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-appengine/-/Nz8BSKdG0KYJ.
>> >
>> > To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> > google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> > For more options, visit this group at
>> > http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Johan Euphrosine (proppy)
>> Developer Programs Engineer
>> Google Developer Relations
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Google App Engine" group.
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>> google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>>
>
> --
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

My main concern is that I will miss many of the questions & answers,
because I will have to manually go an check StackOverflow.

Is there a way to get a daily StackOverflow digest email?

Cheers,
-Andrin

On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 4:20 PM, Daniel Florey wrote:

> I know that Google has grown to a large company and there may be many
> divisions not knowing each other well.
> But from an outside view it is really sad that instead of fixing /
> improving existing Google products, teams are preferring an "easy
> workaround" like moving to Stack Overflow.
> I've experienced this many times in different Google projects and this
> decision is by far not the worst example, but I don't think it is a good
> idea anyway.
> It was great when Google worked on Wave using gwt, which lead to many
> improvements to gwt in a short time. Why not working closely with the guys
> working on groups to add the missing features?
> I'd prefer to use all the services with my google account integrated into
> the navbar when working with the google stack.
>
> So in short: Eat your own dog food ;-)
>
> Daniel
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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>
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>

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Johan Euphrosine]

Yes, you can subscribe to google-app-engine tag by email: just over
the tag name and click subscribe.

More details on the following post:
http://blog.stackoverflow.com/2010/12/subscribe-to-tags-via-emai/

On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Andrin von Rechenberg
 wrote:
> My main concern is that I will miss many of the questions & answers,
> because I will have to manually go an check StackOverflow.
>
> Is there a way to get a daily StackOverflow digest email?
>
> Cheers,
> -Andrin
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 4:20 PM, Daniel Florey 
> wrote:
>>
>> I know that Google has grown to a large company and there may be many
>> divisions not knowing each other well.
>> But from an outside view it is really sad that instead of fixing /
>> improving existing Google products, teams are preferring an "easy
>> workaround" like moving to Stack Overflow.
>> I've experienced this many times in different Google projects and this
>> decision is by far not the worst example, but I don't think it is a good
>> idea anyway.
>> It was great when Google worked on Wave using gwt, which lead to many
>> improvements to gwt in a short time. Why not working closely with the guys
>> working on groups to add the missing features?
>> I'd prefer to use all the services with my google account integrated into
>> the navbar when working with the google stack.
>>
>> So in short: Eat your own dog food ;-)
>>
>> Daniel
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Google App Engine" group.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-appengine/-/Utn2Os0vHVYJ.
>>
>> To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
>
>
> --
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-- 
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Bart Thate]

If you are on IRC freenode i just made a channel where my bot spams the RSS
feed of stackoverflow. Channel is #appengine-overflow ;]

On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Andrin von Rechenberg wrote:

> My main concern is that I will miss many of the questions & answers,
> because I will have to manually go an check StackOverflow.
>
> Is there a way to get a daily StackOverflow digest email?
>
> Cheers,
> -Andrin
>
>
> --
Bart Thate

programming schizophrenic - "till freedom come!"

[!] http://jsonbot.org
[!] http:// gozerbot.org
[!] http://tinyurl.com/schizoo

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Johan Euphrosine]

Hi Daniel,

We observed that more and more people use Stack Overflow for asking
development questions about App Engine:
- 107 questions Last 7 Days
- 461 questions Last 30 Days

And regularly development questions are posted on the language
specific groups, appear to be already answered on Stack Overflow (a
quick search on a particular topic often shows Stack Overflow Q&As as
their first results).

We believe that by focusing on 1 platform for development questions
(instead of having google-appengine-java, google-appengine-python and
Stack Overflow), we could create a better developer experience for App
Engine by improving the quality of community support.

Part of this decision is also about officially moving community
support where developers are already going for their development
questions, and we believe Stack Overflow is becoming the preferred
destination for this.

Hope that helps you to understand the rational of this decision.

On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 4:20 PM, Daniel Florey  wrote:
> I know that Google has grown to a large company and there may be many
> divisions not knowing each other well.
> But from an outside view it is really sad that instead of fixing / improving
> existing Google products, teams are preferring an "easy workaround" like
> moving to Stack Overflow.
> I've experienced this many times in different Google projects and this
> decision is by far not the worst example, but I don't think it is a good
> idea anyway.
> It was great when Google worked on Wave using gwt, which lead to many
> improvements to gwt in a short time. Why not working closely with the guys
> working on groups to add the missing features?
> I'd prefer to use all the services with my google account integrated into
> the navbar when working with the google stack.
>
> So in short: Eat your own dog food ;-)
>
> Daniel
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Google App Engine" group.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-appengine/-/Utn2Os0vHVYJ.
>
> To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.



-- 
Johan Euphrosine (proppy)
Developer Programs Engineer
Google Developer Relations

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Ikai Lan (Google)]

I think it's unfair to compare groups to StackOverflow. There's still
nothing better in my book for a good ol' fashioned, directed discussion.
But as it turns out, groups is really less than optimal for asking
questions about code. And that's okay: StackOverflow is a highly
specialized tool that makes it very easy for developers to look for answers
to their questions. With groups, while you're in the flow of a discussion,
it might be easy to reconcile the back-and-forth as it develops to find the
answers you're looking for, but the tradeoff is that it also leaves a lot
of data in an intermediary, incomplete state that can be confusing to
developers.

Daniel, there are no easy solutions anywhere. Use an outside solution and
be criticized for not drinking our own champagne. Use our own solution and
be criticized for "Not Invented Here" syndrome. At the end of the day, the
question is really this: what's best for developers? The evidence from
other Google teams that have made this move indicates that officially
moving community support to StackOverflow and keeping a single discussion
group seems to give us the best of all worlds. It'll take a little bit of
time to get used to it, but my suspicion is that people are going to be
happier in the long run (it's my experience that there hasn't been a single
change in the history of software that wasn't met with grumpiness).

There's some really good feedback here about getting updates for questions.
StackOverflow has both RSS and email notifications, but there are
definitely places where their email notifications can be improved. Maybe we
can rig something up to email new questions to people.

Anyway, this is the sort of discussion that thrives here in the Groups, and
it's why we're not shutting them down. Keep it coming!

--
Ikai Lan
Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
plus.ikailan.com



On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 7:20 AM, Daniel Florey wrote:

> I know that Google has grown to a large company and there may be many
> divisions not knowing each other well.
> But from an outside view it is really sad that instead of fixing /
> improving existing Google products, teams are preferring an "easy
> workaround" like moving to Stack Overflow.
> I've experienced this many times in different Google projects and this
> decision is by far not the worst example, but I don't think it is a good
> idea anyway.
> It was great when Google worked on Wave using gwt, which lead to many
> improvements to gwt in a short time. Why not working closely with the guys
> working on groups to add the missing features?
> I'd prefer to use all the services with my google account integrated into
> the navbar when working with the google stack.
>
> So in short: Eat your own dog food ;-)
>
> Daniel
>
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Robert Kluin]

Cool Bart.  That might make it easier to keep up with the questions there!

Robert





On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 10:30, Bart Thate  wrote:
> If you are on IRC freenode i just made a channel where my bot spams the RSS
> feed of stackoverflow. Channel is #appengine-overflow ;]
>
> On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Andrin von Rechenberg 
> wrote:
>>
>> My main concern is that I will miss many of the questions & answers,
>> because I will have to manually go an check StackOverflow.
>>
>> Is there a way to get a daily StackOverflow digest email?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> -Andrin
>>
>>
> --
> Bart Thate
>
> programming schizophrenic - "till freedom come!"
>
> [!] http://jsonbot.org
> [!] http://gozerbot.org
> [!] http://tinyurl.com/schizoo
>
>
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Robert Kluin]

I think directing a lot of the specific coding type questions to SO is
good.  It has nice support for things like syntax highlighting built
in, and it is *far* better indexed.  It also gives users the ability
to edit / cleanup / clarify questions based on feed back, and for
users to de-dupe questions.  Basically, it is a nice tool for coding
QnA type stuff.

The only negative aspect in my mind is that it does not facilitate
discussion in quite the same way.  However, as Johan and Ikai have
pointed out, this group will still be here for discussions.  Here if
one sees a question that has been "answered" then follows up with a
more detailed explanation or caveats, it probably gets more attention
than on SO.  I know I don't generally follow old questions on SO.
Here they pop up and I see them.

Anyways, I think this will be an overall positive move.


Robert




On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 14:06, Robert Kluin  wrote:
> Cool Bart.  That might make it easier to keep up with the questions there!
>
> Robert
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 10:30, Bart Thate  wrote:
>> If you are on IRC freenode i just made a channel where my bot spams the RSS
>> feed of stackoverflow. Channel is #appengine-overflow ;]
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Andrin von Rechenberg 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> My main concern is that I will miss many of the questions & answers,
>>> because I will have to manually go an check StackOverflow.
>>>
>>> Is there a way to get a daily StackOverflow digest email?
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> -Andrin
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Bart Thate
>>
>> programming schizophrenic - "till freedom come!"
>>
>> [!] http://jsonbot.org
>> [!] http://gozerbot.org
>> [!] http://tinyurl.com/schizoo
>>
>>
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

Ha, great!

Wasn't logged in so I didn't see it.

Cheers,
-Andrin

On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 4:30 PM, Bart Thate  wrote:

> If you are on IRC freenode i just made a channel where my bot spams the
> RSS feed of stackoverflow. Channel is #appengine-overflow ;]
>
> On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Andrin von Rechenberg 
> wrote:
>
>> My main concern is that I will miss many of the questions & answers,
>> because I will have to manually go an check StackOverflow.
>>
>> Is there a way to get a daily StackOverflow digest email?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> -Andrin
>>
>>
>> --
> Bart Thate
>
> programming schizophrenic - "till freedom come!"
>
> [!] http://jsonbot.org
> [!] http:// gozerbot.org
> [!] http://tinyurl.com/schizoo
>
>
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RE: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Brandon Wirtz]

Is there a way to get a daily StackOverflow digest email?

 

Cheers,

-Andrin

 

 

You can get emails about your question, you can get an rss of a tag.

 

It is a wiki so both are kind of weird. And there is not a good way to
"sponge" the info the way I do with emails that I can then sort offline, or
say to my self. I think Andrin asked that but I didn't really read it at the
time.

 

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Andreas]

yes, once you subscribe for a tag you can edit the email settings on that 
subscriptions.


On Feb 7, 2012, at 3:34 PM, Brandon Wirtz wrote:

> Is there a way to get a daily StackOverflow digest email?
>  
> Cheers,
> -Andrin
>  
>  
> You can get emails about your question, you can get an rss of a tag.
>  
> It is a wiki so both are kind of weird. And there is not a good way to 
> “sponge” the info the way I do with emails that I can then sort offline, or 
> say to my self… I think Andrin asked that but I didn’t really read it at the 
> time.
>  
> 
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Daniel Florey]

Hi,
I did not want to offend anyone. 
I just think it would make perfectly sense to improve Groups to allow users 
to rate posts and display the best answer on top etc. 
Especially if you take into account that Groups is also used as the Google 
Apps help system.
We are using almost all Google products actively including many of the dev 
tools and I had the impression that since introducing G+ Google recently 
tried to streamline the offerings. 
There are also many way I can think of to improve the Groups experience by 
adding some G+ stuff - which is very unlikely to happen in SO.

I know that the decision is made and I'll have to get used to SO, but I 
hope it will get reverted anytime soon - as it happend to the "old" "new" 
Google Help system ;-)

Cheers,
Daniel

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Johan Euphrosine]

On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 1:16 PM, Daniel Florey wrote:

> Hi,
> I did not want to offend anyone.
>

Hey, you are not offending anyone: discussion is always welcome here.


> I just think it would make perfectly sense to improve Groups to allow
> users to rate posts and display the best answer on top etc.
> Especially if you take into account that Groups is also used as the Google
> Apps help system.
>

Yes, I agree those would be very nice feature to have in groups.


> We are using almost all Google products actively including many of the dev
> tools and I had the impression that since introducing G+ Google recently
> tried to streamline the offerings.
>

That's exactly what we are trying to do by doing this, streamlining the
developer experience by having a place for each thing:
- Want to start a technical discussion, go to the General Group
- Want to ask a development question, go to Stack Overflow
- Want to report a bug, go to the Public issue tracker

Instead of having things scattered across multiple groups, and multiple
platforms with a lot of duplicate along the way


> There are also many way I can think of to improve the Groups experience by
> adding some G+ stuff - which is very unlikely to happen in SO.
>


In fact a "Share on Google+" button recently poped on Stack Overflow :)


>
> I know that the decision is made and I'll have to get used to SO, but I
> hope it will get reverted anytime soon - as it happend to the "old" "new"
> Google Help system ;-)
>

Indeed, things are not set in stone and encouraging people to ask
development question on Stack Overflow is also motivated by the populary of
the google-app-engine tag rising there.

We will continue to follow up with developer tool trends, and adapt our
community support to it.

Hope that helps you to understand better our motivations.

 Cheers,
> Daniel
>
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-- 
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Developer Programs Engineer
Google Developer Relations

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Jeff Schnitzer]

What's a good workflow for dealing with stackoverflow that doesn't involve
going and checking on the actual website?  If it doesn't show up in my
inbox or RSS reader (or sometimes hackernews) it might as well not exist to
me.

So far getting an email digest for the google-app-engine just does not cut
it.  My workflow here in Gmail is reasonable - I have a list of all the
appengine-related emails stored in a label, with filters that automatically
star messages a few choice keywords.  The stackoverflow digest not only
evades my priority filter but actually forces me to read through a lengthy
email.  Not going to happen.

Is RSS the way to go?  Any special tricks?

Jeff

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Johan Euphrosine]

Hi Jeff,

You can also check this Chrome extension which tracks pending
questions for a list of tags:
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/bnnkhapbhkejookmhgpgaikfdoegkmdp

Currently the lowest level of granularly for email is a digest every
15 min, monitoring tag RSS feeds with an email gateway (built on App
Engine!) might be a good way to get instant email notification for
individual question.

There seems to be a few projects already doing that:
https://github.com/jmhobbs/RSS-Engine

Let us know if you would be interested by setting up something like
this for the community.

On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 4:02 PM, Jeff Schnitzer  wrote:
> What's a good workflow for dealing with stackoverflow that doesn't involve
> going and checking on the actual website?  If it doesn't show up in my inbox
> or RSS reader (or sometimes hackernews) it might as well not exist to me.
>
> So far getting an email digest for the google-app-engine just does not cut
> it.  My workflow here in Gmail is reasonable - I have a list of all the
> appengine-related emails stored in a label, with filters that automatically
> star messages a few choice keywords.  The stackoverflow digest not only
> evades my priority filter but actually forces me to read through a lengthy
> email.  Not going to happen.
>
> Is RSS the way to go?  Any special tricks?
>
> Jeff
>
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-- 
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Developer Programs Engineer
Google Developer Relations

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RE: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Brandon Wirtz]

>Is RSS the way to go?  Any special tricks?

 

I have my personal assistant read all the messages and flag the important
ones, and occasionally post my canned response if I have posted the same
thing more than once.  Probably getting your PA to do the same would be
good, at least until he/she can build a set of filters to do all of that for
you.

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Jeff Schnitzer]

On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 10:13 AM, Brandon Wirtz  wrote:

> >Is RSS the way to go?  Any special tricks?
>
> ** **
>
> I have my personal assistant read all the messages and flag the important
> ones, and occasionally post my canned response if I have posted the same
> thing more than once.  Probably getting your PA to do the same would be
> good, at least until he/she can build a set of filters to do all of that
> for you.
>
>
I fear that Neptune has not blessed me with such minions.  Perhaps I'm
wearing the wrong outfit :-)

I'll try adding the tags to Google Reader.  The Chrome Plugin is
interesting but it's still outside my normal workflow.  I have to admit
that I have mixed feelings about this particular change, although I can see
the greater good.

Jeff

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RE: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Brandon Wirtz]

 

>I fear that Neptune has not blessed me with such minions.  Perhaps I'm
wearing the wrong outfit :-)

 

Do you have kids. I hear they can be trained.  I have a Cat. She doesn't do
so well with keyboard dexterity which is why there are so many typos in my
posts on days Ivy (PA) isn't in the office

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Ikai Lan (Google)]

Brandon, can you set your font back to normal? For some reason I find that
my eyes tend to scan past the blue Times New Roman (that is Times, right?).
I don't want to miss your messages because the more you post, the more
ammunition I can collect for trolling you =P.

Jeff, a few of us are using RSS to track new questions. Example feed URL:

http://stackoverflow.com/feeds/tag?tagnames=google-app-engine&sort=newest

--
Ikai Lan
Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
plus.ikailan.com



On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 8:49 AM, Brandon Wirtz  wrote:

> ** **
>
> >I fear that Neptune has not blessed me with such minions.  Perhaps I'm
> wearing the wrong outfit :-)
>
> ** **
>
> Do you have kids. I hear they can be trained.  I have a Cat. She doesn’t
> do so well with keyboard dexterity which is why there are so many typos in
> my posts on days Ivy (PA) isn’t in the office
>
> --
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>

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Robert Kluin]

This is actually my biggest complaint about SO as well.  It is far
outside my usual workflow.  I also prefer the "gmail groups
interface."  I guess I need to try the RSS stuff, but I don't
currently watch any RSS feeds -- so this is outside my normal flow as
well.



Robert


On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 10:02, Jeff Schnitzer  wrote:
> What's a good workflow for dealing with stackoverflow that doesn't involve
> going and checking on the actual website?  If it doesn't show up in my inbox
> or RSS reader (or sometimes hackernews) it might as well not exist to me.
>
> So far getting an email digest for the google-app-engine just does not cut
> it.  My workflow here in Gmail is reasonable - I have a list of all the
> appengine-related emails stored in a label, with filters that automatically
> star messages a few choice keywords.  The stackoverflow digest not only
> evades my priority filter but actually forces me to read through a lengthy
> email.  Not going to happen.
>
> Is RSS the way to go?  Any special tricks?
>
> Jeff
>
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Jeff Schnitzer]

I don't mind the font, but Brandon whatever you're doing now shows a
vertical bar to the left of your content exactly the same as Gmail formats
quoted content.  I keep going through your posts and wondering where the
new text is only to realize that it is masquerading as quoted content.
 Example:

https://img.skitch.com/20120209-nsxbc5tuqf58fmfc4nxmhxp8fs.jpg

Jeff


On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 1:24 PM, Ikai Lan (Google)  wrote:

> Brandon, can you set your font back to normal? For some reason I find that
> my eyes tend to scan past the blue Times New Roman (that is Times, right?).
> I don't want to miss your messages because the more you post, the more
> ammunition I can collect for trolling you =P.
>
> Jeff, a few of us are using RSS to track new questions. Example feed URL:
>
> http://stackoverflow.com/feeds/tag?tagnames=google-app-engine&sort=newest
>
> --
> Ikai Lan
> Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
> plus.ikailan.com
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 8:49 AM, Brandon Wirtz  wrote:
>
>> ** **
>>
>> >I fear that Neptune has not blessed me with such minions.  Perhaps I'm
>> wearing the wrong outfit :-)
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Do you have kids. I hear they can be trained.  I have a Cat. She doesn’t
>> do so well with keyboard dexterity which is why there are so many typos in
>> my posts on days Ivy (PA) isn’t in the office
>>
>> --
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>>
>
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Johan Euphrosine]

I think that might be due to:
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0

On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 8:55 PM, Jeff Schnitzer  wrote:
> I don't mind the font, but Brandon whatever you're doing now shows a
> vertical bar to the left of your content exactly the same as Gmail formats
> quoted content.  I keep going through your posts and wondering where the new
> text is only to realize that it is masquerading as quoted content.  Example:
>
> https://img.skitch.com/20120209-nsxbc5tuqf58fmfc4nxmhxp8fs.jpg
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 1:24 PM, Ikai Lan (Google)  wrote:
>>
>> Brandon, can you set your font back to normal? For some reason I find that
>> my eyes tend to scan past the blue Times New Roman (that is Times, right?).
>> I don't want to miss your messages because the more you post, the more
>> ammunition I can collect for trolling you =P.
>>
>> Jeff, a few of us are using RSS to track new questions. Example feed URL:
>>
>> http://stackoverflow.com/feeds/tag?tagnames=google-app-engine&sort=newest
>>
>> --
>> Ikai Lan
>> Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
>> plus.ikailan.com
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 8:49 AM, Brandon Wirtz  wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> >I fear that Neptune has not blessed me with such minions.  Perhaps I'm
>>> > wearing the wrong outfit :-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Do you have kids. I hear they can be trained.  I have a Cat. She doesn’t
>>> do so well with keyboard dexterity which is why there are so many typos in
>>> my posts on days Ivy (PA) isn’t in the office
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>>> "Google App Engine" group.
>>> To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>> google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> For more options, visit this group at
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
>>
>>
>> --
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>
>
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-- 
Johan Euphrosine (proppy)
Developer Programs Engineer
Google Developer Relations

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Robert Kluin]

I also started noticing that on Brandon's posts a day or two ago I think.



Robert


On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 14:55, Jeff Schnitzer  wrote:
> I don't mind the font, but Brandon whatever you're doing now shows a
> vertical bar to the left of your content exactly the same as Gmail formats
> quoted content.  I keep going through your posts and wondering where the new
> text is only to realize that it is masquerading as quoted content.  Example:
>
> https://img.skitch.com/20120209-nsxbc5tuqf58fmfc4nxmhxp8fs.jpg
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 1:24 PM, Ikai Lan (Google)  wrote:
>>
>> Brandon, can you set your font back to normal? For some reason I find that
>> my eyes tend to scan past the blue Times New Roman (that is Times, right?).
>> I don't want to miss your messages because the more you post, the more
>> ammunition I can collect for trolling you =P.
>>
>> Jeff, a few of us are using RSS to track new questions. Example feed URL:
>>
>> http://stackoverflow.com/feeds/tag?tagnames=google-app-engine&sort=newest
>>
>> --
>> Ikai Lan
>> Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
>> plus.ikailan.com
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 8:49 AM, Brandon Wirtz  wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> >I fear that Neptune has not blessed me with such minions.  Perhaps I'm
>>> > wearing the wrong outfit :-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Do you have kids. I hear they can be trained.  I have a Cat. She doesn’t
>>> do so well with keyboard dexterity which is why there are so many typos in
>>> my posts on days Ivy (PA) isn’t in the office
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>>> "Google App Engine" group.
>>> To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>> google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> For more options, visit this group at
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
>>
>>
>> --
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>> "Google App Engine" group.
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>> google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
>
>
> --
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RE: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Brandon Wirtz]

> >> Brandon, can you set your font back to normal? For some reason I find
> >> that my eyes tend to scan past the blue Times New Roman (that is Times,
> right?).

I live in outlook, I'm trying to pick settings that work for all of you and
for me internally... and things get messed up when I reply in HTML Mode.

But the fix I had pissed off the Azure forum guys.

I am considering setting up an email address just for GAE, but I like that
right now it all dumps in with my other cloud forums... Oh well.



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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Daniel Florey]

Am I the only one using the new Groups interface??
Right now everything is perfect for me as I can see at first sight how many 
new topics have been discussed in all my ~20 Google related groups.
Is there a similar view in SO? 

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

Hey guys

*Short version:*
Problem solved, just subscribe to:
google-appengine-stackoverf...@googlegroups.com
You will receive every new question & answer in your favorite email client.

*Long version:*
I like stackoverflow when I'm googling, but I prefer gmail in my workflow
for being part of the community.

So I spent the afternoon hacking a tool together that crawls the rss feeds
of StackOverflow every 5 minutes and checks whats new and mails it out.
This could be done for any StackOverflow tag, I built a generic tool:
http://stack-over-mail.appspot.com

Of course it runs on AppEngine.

It's running on free quota, so until someone sponsors it, please dont
subscribe to super heavy tags like "java"...

I'll open-source the source code soonish.

Cheers,
-Andrin


On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 12:14 PM, MLTrim wrote:

> I'm a Stack Overflow user and I really appreciate this move; thank you
> for this.
> For the reluctant of this change, fiddle with Stack Overflow for a
> couple of weeks and you'll be addicted.
> Michele
> [Systempuntoout]
>
> --
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>
>

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

Oh one more thing: You are on the bleeding edge if you subscribe. There are
no unittests.

I'm adding in-reply-to & references headers now.
However in AppEngine I dont know the Message-ID, so I'm just going to use
the
stackoverflow id. Will that help? Does anyone know?

On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 4:46 PM, Andrin von Rechenberg
wrote:

> Hey guys
>
> *Short version:*
> Problem solved, just subscribe to:
> google-appengine-stackoverf...@googlegroups.com
>  You will receive every new question & answer in your favorite email
> client.
>
> *Long version:*
> I like stackoverflow when I'm googling, but I prefer gmail in my workflow
> for being part of the community.
>
> So I spent the afternoon hacking a tool together that crawls the rss feeds
> of StackOverflow every 5 minutes and checks whats new and mails it out.
>  This could be done for any StackOverflow tag, I built a generic tool:
> http://stack-over-mail.appspot.com
>
> Of course it runs on AppEngine.
>
> It's running on free quota, so until someone sponsors it, please dont
> subscribe to super heavy tags like "java"...
>
> I'll open-source the source code soonish.
>
> Cheers,
> -Andrin
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 12:14 PM, MLTrim wrote:
>
>> I'm a Stack Overflow user and I really appreciate this move; thank you
>> for this.
>> For the reluctant of this change, fiddle with Stack Overflow for a
>> couple of weeks and you'll be addicted.
>> Michele
>> [Systempuntoout]
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Google App Engine" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
>>
>>
>

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Andreas]

andrin this looks and sounds amazing! thx

On Feb 10, 2012, at 10:48 AM, Andrin von Rechenberg wrote:

> Oh one more thing: You are on the bleeding edge if you subscribe. There are 
> no unittests.
> 
> I'm adding in-reply-to & references headers now.
> However in AppEngine I dont know the Message-ID, so I'm just going to use the
> stackoverflow id. Will that help? Does anyone know?
> 
> On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 4:46 PM, Andrin von Rechenberg  
> wrote:
> Hey guys
> 
> Short version:
> Problem solved, just subscribe to: 
> google-appengine-stackoverf...@googlegroups.com
> You will receive every new question & answer in your favorite email client.
> 
> Long version:
> I like stackoverflow when I'm googling, but I prefer gmail in my workflow
> for being part of the community.
> 
> So I spent the afternoon hacking a tool together that crawls the rss feeds
> of StackOverflow every 5 minutes and checks whats new and mails it out.
> This could be done for any StackOverflow tag, I built a generic tool:
> http://stack-over-mail.appspot.com
> 
> Of course it runs on AppEngine.
> 
> It's running on free quota, so until someone sponsors it, please dont
> subscribe to super heavy tags like "java"...
> 
> I'll open-source the source code soonish.
> 
> Cheers,
> -Andrin
> 
> 
> On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 12:14 PM, MLTrim  wrote:
> I'm a Stack Overflow user and I really appreciate this move; thank you
> for this.
> For the reluctant of this change, fiddle with Stack Overflow for a
> couple of weeks and you'll be addicted.
> Michele
> [Systempuntoout]
> 
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "Google App Engine" group.
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> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

Thanks.

I know that sometimes the message order is screwed up.
The problem is that if a reply is posted to a question that
the tool hasnt seen so far, it sends the question and the
reply at the same time and the reply arrives before the
question in the google groups. Typical race condition,
but with email :)

I will delay the sending of a reply if the tool hasn't
seen the question before. But I'm off drinking with
the guys now. im already late. Anyways, the problem
will fix itself, once the tool knows all questions, which
will be soonish I hope.

Cheers,
-Andrin

On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 5:40 PM, Andreas  wrote:

> andrin this looks and sounds amazing! thx
>
> On Feb 10, 2012, at 10:48 AM, Andrin von Rechenberg wrote:
>
> Oh one more thing: You are on the bleeding edge if you subscribe. There
> are no unittests.
>
> I'm adding in-reply-to & references headers now.
> However in AppEngine I dont know the Message-ID, so I'm just going to use
> the
> stackoverflow id. Will that help? Does anyone know?
>
> On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 4:46 PM, Andrin von Rechenberg  > wrote:
>
>> Hey guys
>>
>> *Short version:*
>> Problem solved, just subscribe to:
>> google-appengine-stackoverf...@googlegroups.com
>>  You will receive every new question & answer in your favorite email
>> client.
>>
>> *Long version:*
>> I like stackoverflow when I'm googling, but I prefer gmail in my workflow
>> for being part of the community.
>>
>> So I spent the afternoon hacking a tool together that crawls the rss feeds
>> of StackOverflow every 5 minutes and checks whats new and mails it out.
>>  This could be done for any StackOverflow tag, I built a generic tool:
>> http://stack-over-mail.appspot.com
>>
>> Of course it runs on AppEngine.
>>
>> It's running on free quota, so until someone sponsors it, please dont
>> subscribe to super heavy tags like "java"...
>>
>> I'll open-source the source code soonish.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> -Andrin
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 12:14 PM, MLTrim wrote:
>>
>>> I'm a Stack Overflow user and I really appreciate this move; thank you
>>> for this.
>>> For the reluctant of this change, fiddle with Stack Overflow for a
>>> couple of weeks and you'll be addicted.
>>> Michele
>>> [Systempuntoout]
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "Google App Engine" group.
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>>> google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> For more options, visit this group at
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Francois Masurel]

Great work Andrin, I just joined the group.

I noticed that lots of messages are not directly related to GAE but are 
rather about applications running on App Engine.

Time will tell if SO was the right solution for GAE languages groups.

May be you could create specialized groups like 
google-appengine-java-stackoverf...@googlegroups.com
 :-)

Thanx again.

Francois

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

If there is a tag for that you can create a mail forward for it on
stack-over-mail.appspot.com :)
Its generic...

Cheers,
-Andrin
On Feb 10, 2012 11:28 PM, "Francois Masurel"  wrote:

> Great work Andrin, I just joined the group.
>
> I noticed that lots of messages are not directly related to GAE but are
> rather about applications running on App Engine.
>
> Time will tell if SO was the right solution for GAE languages groups.
>
> May be you could create specialized groups like google-appengine-java-**
> stackoverf...@googlegroups.com
>  :-)
>
> Thanx again.
>
> Francois
>
> --
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Robert Kluin]

Awesome!  You stole what was going to be an evening project this weekend.  ;)

Looking forwards to checking this out.


Robert



On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 10:46, Andrin von Rechenberg  wrote:
> Hey guys
>
> Short version:
> Problem solved, just subscribe
> to: google-appengine-stackoverf...@googlegroups.com
> You will receive every new question & answer in your favorite email client.
>
> Long version:
> I like stackoverflow when I'm googling, but I prefer gmail in my workflow
> for being part of the community.
>
> So I spent the afternoon hacking a tool together that crawls the rss feeds
> of StackOverflow every 5 minutes and checks whats new and mails it out.
> This could be done for any StackOverflow tag, I built a generic tool:
> http://stack-over-mail.appspot.com
>
> Of course it runs on AppEngine.
>
> It's running on free quota, so until someone sponsors it, please dont
> subscribe to super heavy tags like "java"...
>
> I'll open-source the source code soonish.
>
> Cheers,
> -Andrin
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 12:14 PM, MLTrim 
> wrote:
>>
>> I'm a Stack Overflow user and I really appreciate this move; thank you
>> for this.
>> For the reluctant of this change, fiddle with Stack Overflow for a
>> couple of weeks and you'll be addicted.
>> Michele
>> [Systempuntoout]
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Google App Engine" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
>>
>
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Johan Euphrosine]

Hi Daniel,

Thanks for your feedback, I understand your concerns about finding the
right support channel when your project overlap more than one Google
Technology and I agree that's something that should be improved.

Until now we relied on silo'ed Google groups (per language, per
technologies) and part of the move to Stack Overflow is to try to find
a solution to scale community support more easily for App Engine
development questions that span across multiple technologies.

By using multiple tags for their questions, developers are now able to
target more than one community: you can see an example of related tags
on the dedicated page for each tags:

http://stackoverflow.com/tags/google-app-engine/topusers
python× 3541
java× 2035
gae-datastore× 1084
django× 644
gwt× 387

http://stackoverflow.com/tags/gwt/topusers
java× 2152
javascript× 446
google-app-engine× 387
eclipse× 325
css× 256

http://stackoverflow.com/tags/google-maps/topusers
javascript× 2196
android× 1383
google-maps-api-3× 1273
jquery× 595
google× 532

http://stackoverflow.com/tags/android/topusers
java× 18131
android-layout× 5143
listview× 4293
eclipse× 3615
sqlite× 3484

Hope that answers some of your concerns about the move.

On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 10:56 AM, Daniel Florey  wrote:
> Hi,
> I've been thinking about the decision to move to SO for some more time and
> I'd like to give a more general feedback.
>
> We are developing apps for the Google ecosystem using the Google dev stack
> (gwt, gae, galgwt, gdata api, google apps marketplace, chrome webstore etc.)
> See: http://www.floreysoft.net/download/SS377-1109_floreysoft_v1.pdf
> Beside our premier account for the apps running on our own domain we also
> have ~2000 clients running dedicated installations of our tools on app
> engine, many of them with billing enabled. So most of our generated revenue
> goes directly to the GAE team ;-)
>
> As we are using many tools from Google, not just GAE, my perspective on the
> decision to move to SO may be slightly different than the GAE team's point
> of view:
> In my daily life I already have to use different channels to get support
> from Google:
> - For GAE related issues I've to use the Enterprise Support Portal using
> Salesforce.com
> - Using ~20 Google groups for the other api's/projects
> - Issue trackers for the different projects
> - Mail/Chat with Google Dev Advocates
> - Blogs/Google+
>
> In general the support is good as most developers are very responsive. My
> main concern is that the different teams / projects are working quite
> isolated.
> Working in smaller teams of course is more efficient and more fun, but when
> it comes to support I would prefer a single point of contact.
> It would be perfect to be able to address any issue to the Enterprise Portal
> (or any other channel) and to trigger some kind of internal dispatch to the
> proper team.
> Let me give you an example:
> We are using the Google Java Stack (Google Plugin/GWT/GAE) to create our
> apps for multiple locales/browsers, GWT generates dozens of permutations of
> our app. As GAE only supports 150mb project size, we are hitting this limit
> - as you have to divide this limit by the number of permutations to get the
> "real" max app size. It would be possible to e.g. serve gwt fragments from
> the blobstore, but this would involve all the different teams.
> I've been totally lost to find the appropriate channel to communicate this
> issue as every tool itself is working fine, just the combination of them
> causes the pain.
>
> I wonder if there is anybody responsible for taking care of the big picture
> of the google dev tools. There are some indicators that there may be someone
> with the big plan (e.g. new api console, streamlined documentation), but
> there are many overlapping developments and new projects not really linked
> into each other (e.g. gitkit/appengine user service) that I'm still
> confused.
> In general decisions regarding how to provide support should be made on a
> higher level. If Google decides to use SO as the primary channel for
> answering questions of developers, at least all projects providing dev tools
> should use SO.
> Don't get me wrong: I still believe that the most brilliant minds are
> working for Google, but as Google rapidly grows, I have the feeling that
> especially the enterprise support is not yet adequate...and deciding on a
> per-team basis which channels to establish is the wrong move IMO.
>
> Daniel
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Google App Engine" group.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-appengine/-/UpPZP2C20agJ.
>
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-- 
Johan Euphrosine (proppy)
Developer P

Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Mos]

+111
absolute agreement;   I would like to hear an official statement from
Google regarding long time commitment to GAE ( incl. plans regarding
adequate support options).

Google, has the best developers in the world. It has so much money to burn.
It has the best internet-infrastructure on this planet.
If Google would like, I'm sure a self implemented "StackOverflow" for
Google-Products would be ready in three month from now.
And now they decide to outsource this one to the .NET based StackOverflow,
that just lost his founder and brain Jeff Atwood?

That really doesn't look like Google has any plans to invest in better
enterprise support or make GAE a first class Google product.

I hope I'm wrong

On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 12:21 AM, Supercobra Thatbytes  wrote:

> I think this is a terrible idea because it makes people check 2 places and
> subscribe to 2 boards. Newcomers to this discussion will have a hard time
> knowing about this.
>
> App Engine team does put enough resources for community and customer
> support. I have a paid app and I cannot get my simple billing questions
> answered. In the billing interface, there is no link or phone # to use.
> Just a link to this forum... unless we pay become a Premier Account for
> $500 / month but first we need to talk to the sales team. Really? So
> desperate users in need of urgent help post questions on forums and if they
> make enough noise and show enough distress, others users help them and
> sometimes, in with their immense goodwill and too little available time,
> Google Engineers help too.
>
> Google App Engine team says, 'well support is best effort around here or
> get a Premier Account'. I think this is not the way to do it. Together with
> Google engineers, WE make Google products what they are because of our deep
> involvement.
>
> This lack of support is general across most Google products. Our company
> uses many Google products that are now business critical for us: Google
> Apps for Business, Checkout, Analytics, and more. With all of those, if you
> have a problem, well, it's your problem because you cannot contact anyone.
>
> So is it hard to provide good support? Not for every company. We use
> Amazon S3 and Cloud Service. We are a little tiny customers for them. The
> other day we had a problem that brought down our SaaS app. Emergency. What
> do you do when that happens? Well, simple. On Amazon AWS console, click on
> 'call me I need help now' button and a human calls you within a minute.
>
> So Google: use a tiny portion of the immense net revenue to add more
> community and product support engineers. I bet that will improve the bottom
> line even further.
>
> One last BIG concern. One of the things that first get dropped when a
> product is going to be retired (i.e. killed) is developer and community
> support. Java and Python appengine discussion groups are being deprecated
> and dev support is moved to Stack Overflow. That does not sound like App
> Engine is going forward to me. More like a huge red flag. Is App Engine
> business in danger?
>
> Telling Google users to use Stack Overflow is the equivalent of displaying
> a big sign on Google Groups home page saying "use Stack Overflow, it's much
> better than what we have".
>
> As other users suggested, Google should improve this forum software and
> make it work more like Stack Overflow and not move there...
>
>
>
>
>  --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Google App Engine" group.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-appengine/-/-CMqxkvEya4J.
>
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

About "Google using StackOverflow and not building it itself":
If you are working at Google Scale, you don't build StackOverflow in 3
months.
If you are a StartUp, you build a primitive version of StackOverflow in a
day and launch.
If you are working at Google it will take you at least 12 month to launch
something like
StackOverflow. Google's Product are so well implemented, tested,
productionized and
legally sound that it just takes a shit load of time getting something out
of the door.
What's wrong with using well established, well working 3rd party software?

About long time commitment:
GAE is out of beta. This means long-time commitment.
See:
http://googleappengine.blogspot.com/2011/11/app-engine-160-out-of-preview-release.html
Quote: *"Google is making a long term investment in App Engine!"*

Cheers,
-Andrin

On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 3:35 PM, Mos  wrote:

> +111
> absolute agreement;   I would like to hear an official statement from
> Google regarding long time commitment to GAE ( incl. plans regarding
> adequate support options).
>
> Google, has the best developers in the world. It has so much money to
> burn. It has the best internet-infrastructure on this planet.
> If Google would like, I'm sure a self implemented "StackOverflow" for
> Google-Products would be ready in three month from now.
> And now they decide to outsource this one to the .NET based StackOverflow,
> that just lost his founder and brain Jeff Atwood?
>
> That really doesn't look like Google has any plans to invest in better
> enterprise support or make GAE a first class Google product.
>
> I hope I'm wrong
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 12:21 AM, Supercobra Thatbytes <
> superco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I think this is a terrible idea because it makes people check 2 places
>> and subscribe to 2 boards. Newcomers to this discussion will have a hard
>> time knowing about this.
>>
>> App Engine team does put enough resources for community and customer
>> support. I have a paid app and I cannot get my simple billing questions
>> answered. In the billing interface, there is no link or phone # to use.
>> Just a link to this forum... unless we pay become a Premier Account for
>> $500 / month but first we need to talk to the sales team. Really? So
>> desperate users in need of urgent help post questions on forums and if they
>> make enough noise and show enough distress, others users help them and
>> sometimes, in with their immense goodwill and too little available time,
>> Google Engineers help too.
>>
>> Google App Engine team says, 'well support is best effort around here or
>> get a Premier Account'. I think this is not the way to do it. Together with
>> Google engineers, WE make Google products what they are because of our deep
>> involvement.
>>
>> This lack of support is general across most Google products. Our company
>> uses many Google products that are now business critical for us: Google
>> Apps for Business, Checkout, Analytics, and more. With all of those, if you
>> have a problem, well, it's your problem because you cannot contact anyone.
>>
>> So is it hard to provide good support? Not for every company. We use
>> Amazon S3 and Cloud Service. We are a little tiny customers for them. The
>> other day we had a problem that brought down our SaaS app. Emergency. What
>> do you do when that happens? Well, simple. On Amazon AWS console, click on
>> 'call me I need help now' button and a human calls you within a minute.
>>
>> So Google: use a tiny portion of the immense net revenue to add more
>> community and product support engineers. I bet that will improve the bottom
>> line even further.
>>
>> One last BIG concern. One of the things that first get dropped when a
>> product is going to be retired (i.e. killed) is developer and community
>> support. Java and Python appengine discussion groups are being deprecated
>> and dev support is moved to Stack Overflow. That does not sound like App
>> Engine is going forward to me. More like a huge red flag. Is App Engine
>> business in danger?
>>
>> Telling Google users to use Stack Overflow is the equivalent of
>> displaying a big sign on Google Groups home page saying "use Stack
>> Overflow, it's much better than what we have".
>>
>> As other users suggested, Google should improve this forum software and
>> make it work more like Stack Overflow and not move there...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Google App Engine" group.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-appengine/-/-CMqxkvEya4J.
>>
>> To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>> http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
>>
>
>  --
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> "Google App Engine" grou

Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Mos]

> What's wrong with using well established, well working 3rd party software?

Check this thread for arguments. Summary:

 - People need to check 2 different places/systems to find the official GAE
support-groups  (confusing; especially for newcomers)
 - Getting answers from Google stuff directly will be even worse because
it's outsourced and not "owned" by Google
 - Faith in GAE is reduced if the official support forums are outsourced to
the community.
 - Stackoverflow is a good format for Q&A  but bad if there are discussions
about Java or Python regarding
Features/Roadmaps/Bug-Discussions/Reminder/Collaboration or what ever.
 - Google is not able to control the support workflow anymore   (usually
they like to have everything important in their influence, don't they?)

The advantage of StackOverflow is the better structure for question and
answers. That's for sure!
But as people suggested, Google could improve this forum and make it a
little more StackOverflowish.
(I don't believe this would take 12 month, even in a big company like
Google. It's still moving very fast, isn't it?)

Or stay with the forum, add a FAQ-Posting for recurring questions and
always link to StackOverflow if the answer is there.
Many other software support forums are doing it this way
And by the way:  Most people that have a GAE problem or question are
searching for it on Google. If the answer is on StackOverflow they
get it. Mostly ranked higher then these forum postings. I don't think there
is a big problem with redundant questions on this forum.
The problem seems to be another one

Cheers
Mos


On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 4:31 PM, Andrin von Rechenberg
wrote:

> About "Google using StackOverflow and not building it itself":
> If you are working at Google Scale, you don't build StackOverflow in 3
> months.
> If you are a StartUp, you build a primitive version of StackOverflow in a
> day and launch.
> If you are working at Google it will take you at least 12 month to launch
> something like
> StackOverflow. Google's Product are so well implemented, tested,
> productionized and
> legally sound that it just takes a shit load of time getting something out
> of the door.
> What's wrong with using well established, well working 3rd party software?
>
> About long time commitment:
> GAE is out of beta. This means long-time commitment.
> See:
> http://googleappengine.blogspot.com/2011/11/app-engine-160-out-of-preview-release.html
> Quote: *"Google is making a long term investment in App Engine!"*
>
> Cheers,
> -Andrin
>
> On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 3:35 PM, Mos  wrote:
>
>> +111
>> absolute agreement;   I would like to hear an official statement from
>> Google regarding long time commitment to GAE ( incl. plans regarding
>> adequate support options).
>>
>> Google, has the best developers in the world. It has so much money to
>> burn. It has the best internet-infrastructure on this planet.
>> If Google would like, I'm sure a self implemented "StackOverflow" for
>> Google-Products would be ready in three month from now.
>> And now they decide to outsource this one to the .NET based
>> StackOverflow, that just lost his founder and brain Jeff Atwood?
>>
>> That really doesn't look like Google has any plans to invest in better
>> enterprise support or make GAE a first class Google product.
>>
>> I hope I'm wrong
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 12:21 AM, Supercobra Thatbytes <
>> superco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I think this is a terrible idea because it makes people check 2 places
>>> and subscribe to 2 boards. Newcomers to this discussion will have a hard
>>> time knowing about this.
>>>
>>> App Engine team does put enough resources for community and customer
>>> support. I have a paid app and I cannot get my simple billing questions
>>> answered. In the billing interface, there is no link or phone # to use.
>>> Just a link to this forum... unless we pay become a Premier Account for
>>> $500 / month but first we need to talk to the sales team. Really? So
>>> desperate users in need of urgent help post questions on forums and if they
>>> make enough noise and show enough distress, others users help them and
>>> sometimes, in with their immense goodwill and too little available time,
>>> Google Engineers help too.
>>>
>>> Google App Engine team says, 'well support is best effort around here or
>>> get a Premier Account'. I think this is not the way to do it. Together with
>>> Google engineers, WE make Google products what they are because of our deep
>>> involvement.
>>>
>>> This lack of support is general across most Google products. Our company
>>> uses many Google products that are now business critical for us: Google
>>> Apps for Business, Checkout, Analytics, and more. With all of those, if you
>>> have a problem, well, it's your problem because you cannot contact anyone.
>>>
>>> So is it hard to provide good support? Not for every company. We use
>>> Amazon S3 and Cloud Service. We are a little tiny customers for them. The
>>> oth

Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Gregory D'alesandre]

Hi Mos,

Google is absolutely committed to App Engine and part of the reason we are
moving the Java/Python groups to StackOverflow is to have better, more
consolidated answers to questions.  While it might be possible for Google
to build its own tool tailed to questions and answers, we really like
StackOverflow in part because it is where a lot of developers go in general
to get answers to questions.  As I've talked about on this group before, we
currently have essentially 2 support options: Premier Accounts (for
$500/month) or StackOverflow / Groups where the community can support it
and Googlers will sometimes answer questions.  The first has an SLA and the
second does not.  So, in response to Google investing in better enterprise
support, I hope that answers the question.

In terms of the concern that this means we are trying to deprecate App
Engine.  I can honestly and frankly say that there are no plans to do so,
quite the opposite, we are growing!  Right now we are trying to consolidate
a variety of places to get answers into 1 to improve how people get
questions answered.  We are keeping this group (google-appengine) because
it is a great place for discussions, but when it comes to asking a question
and getting an answer, we believe StackOverflow is a product more suited to
do this.

Johan and Ikai both work on the App Engine team so their word is as
official as mine, but I figured hearing it from more people might help.

Greg D'Alesandre
Senior Product Manager, Google App Engine

PS - Nice app Andrin, I'm already signed up! :)

On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 6:35 AM, Mos  wrote:

> +111
> absolute agreement;   I would like to hear an official statement from
> Google regarding long time commitment to GAE ( incl. plans regarding
> adequate support options).
>
> Google, has the best developers in the world. It has so much money to
> burn. It has the best internet-infrastructure on this planet.
> If Google would like, I'm sure a self implemented "StackOverflow" for
> Google-Products would be ready in three month from now.
> And now they decide to outsource this one to the .NET based StackOverflow,
> that just lost his founder and brain Jeff Atwood?
>
> That really doesn't look like Google has any plans to invest in better
> enterprise support or make GAE a first class Google product.
>
> I hope I'm wrong
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 12:21 AM, Supercobra Thatbytes <
> superco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I think this is a terrible idea because it makes people check 2 places
>> and subscribe to 2 boards. Newcomers to this discussion will have a hard
>> time knowing about this.
>>
>> App Engine team does put enough resources for community and customer
>> support. I have a paid app and I cannot get my simple billing questions
>> answered. In the billing interface, there is no link or phone # to use.
>> Just a link to this forum... unless we pay become a Premier Account for
>> $500 / month but first we need to talk to the sales team. Really? So
>> desperate users in need of urgent help post questions on forums and if they
>> make enough noise and show enough distress, others users help them and
>> sometimes, in with their immense goodwill and too little available time,
>> Google Engineers help too.
>>
>> Google App Engine team says, 'well support is best effort around here or
>> get a Premier Account'. I think this is not the way to do it. Together with
>> Google engineers, WE make Google products what they are because of our deep
>> involvement.
>>
>> This lack of support is general across most Google products. Our company
>> uses many Google products that are now business critical for us: Google
>> Apps for Business, Checkout, Analytics, and more. With all of those, if you
>> have a problem, well, it's your problem because you cannot contact anyone.
>>
>> So is it hard to provide good support? Not for every company. We use
>> Amazon S3 and Cloud Service. We are a little tiny customers for them. The
>> other day we had a problem that brought down our SaaS app. Emergency. What
>> do you do when that happens? Well, simple. On Amazon AWS console, click on
>> 'call me I need help now' button and a human calls you within a minute.
>>
>> So Google: use a tiny portion of the immense net revenue to add more
>> community and product support engineers. I bet that will improve the bottom
>> line even further.
>>
>> One last BIG concern. One of the things that first get dropped when a
>> product is going to be retired (i.e. killed) is developer and community
>> support. Java and Python appengine discussion groups are being deprecated
>> and dev support is moved to Stack Overflow. That does not sound like App
>> Engine is going forward to me. More like a huge red flag. Is App Engine
>> business in danger?
>>
>> Telling Google users to use Stack Overflow is the equivalent of
>> displaying a big sign on Google Groups home page saying "use Stack
>> Overflow, it's much better than what we have".
>>
>> As other users suggested, 

Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Ikai Lan (Google)]

Supercobra,

I share your concerns about streamlining the user experience. As it stands,
the user experience isn't great: you have groups, StackOverflow, billing
issues forms, abuse forms, the public issues tracker, Google Groups, Reddit
... I could probably go on. The move to StackOverflow isn't necessarily
 making things more complicated, as our documentation will to updated to
reflect that it is the primary destination for code questions - and in
exchange, the Python/Java groups will be placed into read-only. We've done
this with other products at Google such as Android and experienced
overwhelming success - not only will App Engine Java questions be exposed
to developers following App Engine, they will also be exposed to tens of
thousands of Java developers on StackOverflow. And the tooling! The tooling
will allow us to identify where we need better learning resources, or where
the product needs improvements. We could certainly build this ourselves,
but that detracts from our ability to answer questions, launch features,
and improve the documentation. There are always tradeoffs in those
scenarios.

Hope this helps,

--
Ikai Lan
Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
plus.ikailan.com



On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 11:04 AM, Gregory D'alesandre wrote:

> Hi Mos,
>
> Google is absolutely committed to App Engine and part of the reason we are
> moving the Java/Python groups to StackOverflow is to have better, more
> consolidated answers to questions.  While it might be possible for Google
> to build its own tool tailed to questions and answers, we really like
> StackOverflow in part because it is where a lot of developers go in general
> to get answers to questions.  As I've talked about on this group before, we
> currently have essentially 2 support options: Premier Accounts (for
> $500/month) or StackOverflow / Groups where the community can support it
> and Googlers will sometimes answer questions.  The first has an SLA and the
> second does not.  So, in response to Google investing in better enterprise
> support, I hope that answers the question.
>
> In terms of the concern that this means we are trying to deprecate App
> Engine.  I can honestly and frankly say that there are no plans to do so,
> quite the opposite, we are growing!  Right now we are trying to consolidate
> a variety of places to get answers into 1 to improve how people get
> questions answered.  We are keeping this group (google-appengine) because
> it is a great place for discussions, but when it comes to asking a question
> and getting an answer, we believe StackOverflow is a product more suited to
> do this.
>
> Johan and Ikai both work on the App Engine team so their word is as
> official as mine, but I figured hearing it from more people might help.
>
> Greg D'Alesandre
> Senior Product Manager, Google App Engine
>
> PS - Nice app Andrin, I'm already signed up! :)
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 6:35 AM, Mos  wrote:
>
>> +111
>> absolute agreement;   I would like to hear an official statement from
>> Google regarding long time commitment to GAE ( incl. plans regarding
>> adequate support options).
>>
>> Google, has the best developers in the world. It has so much money to
>> burn. It has the best internet-infrastructure on this planet.
>> If Google would like, I'm sure a self implemented "StackOverflow" for
>> Google-Products would be ready in three month from now.
>> And now they decide to outsource this one to the .NET based
>> StackOverflow, that just lost his founder and brain Jeff Atwood?
>>
>> That really doesn't look like Google has any plans to invest in better
>> enterprise support or make GAE a first class Google product.
>>
>> I hope I'm wrong
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 12:21 AM, Supercobra Thatbytes <
>> superco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I think this is a terrible idea because it makes people check 2 places
>>> and subscribe to 2 boards. Newcomers to this discussion will have a hard
>>> time knowing about this.
>>>
>>> App Engine team does put enough resources for community and customer
>>> support. I have a paid app and I cannot get my simple billing questions
>>> answered. In the billing interface, there is no link or phone # to use.
>>> Just a link to this forum... unless we pay become a Premier Account for
>>> $500 / month but first we need to talk to the sales team. Really? So
>>> desperate users in need of urgent help post questions on forums and if they
>>> make enough noise and show enough distress, others users help them and
>>> sometimes, in with their immense goodwill and too little available time,
>>> Google Engineers help too.
>>>
>>> Google App Engine team says, 'well support is best effort around here or
>>> get a Premier Account'. I think this is not the way to do it. Together with
>>> Google engineers, WE make Google products what they are because of our deep
>>> involvement.
>>>
>>> This lack of support is general across most Google products. Our company
>>> uses many Google products that

RE: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Brandon Wirtz]

Ikai,

 

>Supercobra

 

I want to be in the meeting where you present to your manager the reaction
to the news of the move to StackOverflow.

 

"Well, over all I think the most of the community is behind it, but
Supercobra, and Brandon, the guy in the mermaid costume, have expressed some
concerns"

 

"Really? Did you ask G.I. Joe and Batman what they think?"

 

 

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[supercobra]

> “Well, over all I think the most of the community is behind it, but 
> Supercobra, and
> Brandon, the guy in the mermaid costume, have expressed some concerns”
>
> “Really? Did you ask G.I. Joe and Batman what they think?“

supercobra's opinion is more important than batman's, because batman
can't code all that well anyway

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Daniel Florey]

Hi Greg,
regarding the support:
It was my understanding that enterprise support (premier account) will only 
be responsible to handle urgent issues (GAE problems affecting production 
apps). 
Or can we use the enterprise support also to get more general help 
regarding implementation patterns etc.? This would of course be very nice, 
but I'd also prefer to share all valuable information with the community.
Example: We've had problems with the channel api (token can not be renewed 
after 2 hrs timeout) and received a very smart workaround from enterprise 
support that greatly helped us. I've posted this answer on the GAE group to 
help others facing the same issue, but I would prefer if this would be 
handled by the enterprise support people to make sure that valuable info 
never gets lost.

Thanks,
Daniel

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[supercobra]

> https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/google-plus-developers/n0i53XYAM8E

This is very cool. +1 for using that.

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Johan Euphrosine]

Hi Daniel,

On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 10:45 AM, Daniel Florey  wrote:
> I just realized that all the nice feature are already available in Google
> Groups. Checkout this post:
> https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/google-plus-developers/n0i53XYAM8E
>
> You can see that the Google+ group has all the features enabled that we are
> talking about: Asking questions, rating answers, displaying best answer on
> top, tagging questions etc.
> So it would easily be possible to create a GAE group that holds all the
> questions with different tags (java,python,datastore etc) and still keep the
> advantages of Google Group (number of new posts in group overview, seamless
> integration into the Google experience etc.)

I enabled the new group interface for google-appengine group and
created a couple of tags (let me know if I forgot any):
python
java
go
python27
datastore
memcache
taskqueue
blobstore
channel
mail
users
backend
urlfetch
xmpp
files
mapreduce
protorpc
openid
storage
prospectivesearch
conversion
remoteapi

Feel free to use this when Stack Overflow doesn't fit your needs.

> The only valid argument left for the SO move IMO is that it may be a good
> way to convince java folks not yet addicted to GAE by flooding SO with GAE
> praising posts.
> As it finally looks like a "marketing" driven decision to me I'm out of
> arguments and will patiently wait until sanity wins ;-)

As Greg said, one of the principal reason for moving development
questions to Stack Overflow is to go where a lot of developer already
go to get answers to questions. I have never seen marketing content on
Stack Overflow and if there is any it is likely to be downvoted by the
community.

Hope you will enjoy the new group interface ;)
-- 
Johan Euphrosine (proppy)
Developer Programs Engineer
Google Developer Relations

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Daniel Florey]

This is very cool! Thanks a lot.
Is there a way to enable this feature for my own group? I did not find the 
magic switch.

Daniel

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RE: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Brandon Wirtz]

> AdWords communities (6 languages) also just moved to a 3rd party platform:


That's an SEO play. Adwords is tired of all the trash talked about them in
their forum ranking so highly because it is hosted on a Google Domain. 



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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[j]

-1 for moving to stackoverflow. Why do we need another site? I have been 
using Google groups for years, no issues so far. What do we get by moving 
to stakoverflow? Does it work on Android tablet or something else that we 
need to know that is so special about it?

On Monday, February 13, 2012 3:49:47 PM UTC-5, Ikai Lan wrote:
>
> Supercobra,
>
> I share your concerns about streamlining the user experience. As it 
> stands, the user experience isn't great: you have groups, StackOverflow, 
> billing issues forms, abuse forms, the public issues tracker, Google 
> Groups, Reddit ... I could probably go on. The move to StackOverflow isn't 
> necessarily  making things more complicated, as our documentation will to 
> updated to reflect that it is the primary destination for code questions - 
> and in exchange, the Python/Java groups will be placed into read-only. 
> We've done this with other products at Google such as Android and 
> experienced overwhelming success - not only will App Engine Java questions 
> be exposed to developers following App Engine, they will also be exposed to 
> tens of thousands of Java developers on StackOverflow. And the tooling! The 
> tooling will allow us to identify where we need better learning resources, 
> or where the product needs improvements. We could certainly build this 
> ourselves, but that detracts from our ability to answer questions, launch 
> features, and improve the documentation. There are always tradeoffs in 
> those scenarios. 
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> --
> Ikai Lan 
> Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
> plus.ikailan.com
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 11:04 AM, Gregory D'alesandre wrote:
>
>> Hi Mos,
>>
>> Google is absolutely committed to App Engine and part of the reason we 
>> are moving the Java/Python groups to StackOverflow is to have better, more 
>> consolidated answers to questions.  While it might be possible for Google 
>> to build its own tool tailed to questions and answers, we really like 
>> StackOverflow in part because it is where a lot of developers go in general 
>> to get answers to questions.  As I've talked about on this group before, we 
>> currently have essentially 2 support options: Premier Accounts (for 
>> $500/month) or StackOverflow / Groups where the community can support it 
>> and Googlers will sometimes answer questions.  The first has an SLA and the 
>> second does not.  So, in response to Google investing in better enterprise 
>> support, I hope that answers the question.  
>>
>> In terms of the concern that this means we are trying to deprecate App 
>> Engine.  I can honestly and frankly say that there are no plans to do so, 
>> quite the opposite, we are growing!  Right now we are trying to consolidate 
>> a variety of places to get answers into 1 to improve how people get 
>> questions answered.  We are keeping this group (google-appengine) because 
>> it is a great place for discussions, but when it comes to asking a question 
>> and getting an answer, we believe StackOverflow is a product more suited to 
>> do this.
>>
>> Johan and Ikai both work on the App Engine team so their word is as 
>> official as mine, but I figured hearing it from more people might help.
>>
>> Greg D'Alesandre
>> Senior Product Manager, Google App Engine
>>
>> PS - Nice app Andrin, I'm already signed up! :)
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 6:35 AM, Mos  wrote:
>>
>>> +111
>>> absolute agreement;   I would like to hear an official statement from 
>>> Google regarding long time commitment to GAE ( incl. plans regarding 
>>> adequate support options).
>>>
>>> Google, has the best developers in the world. It has so much money to 
>>> burn. It has the best internet-infrastructure on this planet.
>>> If Google would like, I'm sure a self implemented "StackOverflow" for 
>>> Google-Products would be ready in three month from now.
>>> And now they decide to outsource this one to the .NET based 
>>> StackOverflow, that just lost his founder and brain Jeff Atwood?
>>>
>>> That really doesn't look like Google has any plans to invest in better 
>>> enterprise support or make GAE a first class Google product.
>>>
>>> I hope I'm wrong
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 12:21 AM, Supercobra Thatbytes <
>>> superco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 I think this is a terrible idea because it makes people check 2 places 
 and subscribe to 2 boards. Newcomers to this discussion will have a hard 
 time knowing about this.

 App Engine team does put enough resources for community and customer 
 support. I have a paid app and I cannot get my simple billing questions 
 answered. In the billing interface, there is no link or phone # to use. 
 Just a link to this forum... unless we pay become a Premier Account for 
 $500 / month but first we need to talk to the sales team. Really? So 
 desperate users in need of urgent help post questions on forums and if 
 they 
 make enough noise and show enough distress, 

Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Daniel Florey]

Too late

On Wednesday, March 28, 2012 11:02:21 PM UTC+2, j wrote:
>
> -1 for moving to stackoverflow. Why do we need another site? I have been 
> using Google groups for years, no issues so far. What do we get by moving 
> to stakoverflow? Does it work on Android tablet or something else that we 
> need to know that is so special about it?
>
> On Monday, February 13, 2012 3:49:47 PM UTC-5, Ikai Lan wrote:
>>
>> Supercobra,
>>
>> I share your concerns about streamlining the user experience. As it 
>> stands, the user experience isn't great: you have groups, StackOverflow, 
>> billing issues forms, abuse forms, the public issues tracker, Google 
>> Groups, Reddit ... I could probably go on. The move to StackOverflow isn't 
>> necessarily  making things more complicated, as our documentation will to 
>> updated to reflect that it is the primary destination for code questions - 
>> and in exchange, the Python/Java groups will be placed into read-only. 
>> We've done this with other products at Google such as Android and 
>> experienced overwhelming success - not only will App Engine Java questions 
>> be exposed to developers following App Engine, they will also be exposed to 
>> tens of thousands of Java developers on StackOverflow. And the tooling! The 
>> tooling will allow us to identify where we need better learning resources, 
>> or where the product needs improvements. We could certainly build this 
>> ourselves, but that detracts from our ability to answer questions, launch 
>> features, and improve the documentation. There are always tradeoffs in 
>> those scenarios. 
>>
>> Hope this helps,
>>
>> --
>> Ikai Lan 
>> Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
>> plus.ikailan.com
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 11:04 AM, Gregory D'alesandre 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Mos,
>>>
>>> Google is absolutely committed to App Engine and part of the reason we 
>>> are moving the Java/Python groups to StackOverflow is to have better, more 
>>> consolidated answers to questions.  While it might be possible for Google 
>>> to build its own tool tailed to questions and answers, we really like 
>>> StackOverflow in part because it is where a lot of developers go in general 
>>> to get answers to questions.  As I've talked about on this group before, we 
>>> currently have essentially 2 support options: Premier Accounts (for 
>>> $500/month) or StackOverflow / Groups where the community can support it 
>>> and Googlers will sometimes answer questions.  The first has an SLA and the 
>>> second does not.  So, in response to Google investing in better enterprise 
>>> support, I hope that answers the question.  
>>>
>>> In terms of the concern that this means we are trying to deprecate App 
>>> Engine.  I can honestly and frankly say that there are no plans to do so, 
>>> quite the opposite, we are growing!  Right now we are trying to consolidate 
>>> a variety of places to get answers into 1 to improve how people get 
>>> questions answered.  We are keeping this group (google-appengine) because 
>>> it is a great place for discussions, but when it comes to asking a question 
>>> and getting an answer, we believe StackOverflow is a product more suited to 
>>> do this.
>>>
>>> Johan and Ikai both work on the App Engine team so their word is as 
>>> official as mine, but I figured hearing it from more people might help.
>>>
>>> Greg D'Alesandre
>>> Senior Product Manager, Google App Engine
>>>
>>> PS - Nice app Andrin, I'm already signed up! :)
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 6:35 AM, Mos  wrote:
>>>
 +111
 absolute agreement;   I would like to hear an official statement from 
 Google regarding long time commitment to GAE ( incl. plans regarding 
 adequate support options).

 Google, has the best developers in the world. It has so much money to 
 burn. It has the best internet-infrastructure on this planet.
 If Google would like, I'm sure a self implemented "StackOverflow" for 
 Google-Products would be ready in three month from now.
 And now they decide to outsource this one to the .NET based 
 StackOverflow, that just lost his founder and brain Jeff Atwood?

 That really doesn't look like Google has any plans to invest in better 
 enterprise support or make GAE a first class Google product.

 I hope I'm wrong


 On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 12:21 AM, Supercobra Thatbytes <
 superco...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I think this is a terrible idea because it makes people check 2 places 
> and subscribe to 2 boards. Newcomers to this discussion will have a hard 
> time knowing about this.
>
> App Engine team does put enough resources for community and customer 
> support. I have a paid app and I cannot get my simple billing questions 
> answered. In the billing interface, there is no link or phone # to use. 
> Just a link to this forum... unless we pay become a Premier Account for 
> $500 / month but first we ne

Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Rafael]

aside from going unanswered, there's no way to query about generalized
system status, which happens quite often.


On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 4:47 PM, payala  wrote:

> This would be fine if someone answered questions, I find appengine related
> questions on stackoverflow have a pretty high chance to go unanswered if
> they are not dead-simple.
>
> El martes, 7 de febrero de 2012 03:14:54 UTC+1, Ikai Lan escribió:
>>
>> *Hi App Engine Developers,
>>
>> In the last few years, the Q&A website Stack 
>> Overflowhas become an invaluable tool for 
>> developer communities. We’re pleased to
>> announce that we are migrating to Stack Overflow as the official channel
>> for answering development questions about Google App Engine.The
>> google-appengine  group
>> will remain open for general discussions and announcements that are better
>> suited for the groups format.
>>
>> We believe that Stack Overflow is better platform for sharing knowledge
>> and answering support questions given its larger community, de-duping of
>> similar questions and contributor reputation system. We also expect that
>> App Engine developers will be able to contribute and benefit from the wider
>> range of language-related information not specific to App Engine. In
>> addition, due to Stack Overflow’s use of OpenID for account management,
>> developers will not need to create a new account to participate in the
>> discussion - developers will be able to log in with any of the identity
>> providers supported by Stack Overflow, including Google Accounts.
>>
>> We plan on deprecating the App Engine language-specific groups, namely
>> google-appengine-pythonand
>> google-appengine-java.
>> The 
>> google-appengine-godiscussion
>>  group will continue to remain open for at least as long as the
>> Go runtime is in experimental status.
>>
>> The Python and Java groups will be placed into read-only on March 5th,
>> 2012. While answering technical questions, we will begin nudging developers
>> to ask their questions on Stack Overflow using the google-app-engine 
>> tag
>> .
>>
>> Please let us know if there are any questions or concerns about this
>> announcement.
>>
>> Happy coding!
>>
>> - Ikai Lan, on behalf of the App Engine team*
>>
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Moises Belchin]

I'm not a big fan of SO.


Saludos.
Moisés Belchín.


2013/6/25 Hooman Korasani 

> -1
> Stackoverflow has a very strict FAQ rules, and questions are easily
> closed.  I don't think it is a good idea to move support to that platform.
>
>
> On Tuesday, 7 February 2012 02:14:54 UTC, Ikai Lan wrote:
>>
>> *Hi App Engine Developers,
>>
>> In the last few years, the Q&A website Stack 
>> Overflowhas become an invaluable tool for 
>> developer communities. We’re pleased to
>> announce that we are migrating to Stack Overflow as the official channel
>> for answering development questions about Google App Engine.The
>> google-appengine  group
>> will remain open for general discussions and announcements that are better
>> suited for the groups format.
>>
>> We believe that Stack Overflow is better platform for sharing knowledge
>> and answering support questions given its larger community, de-duping of
>> similar questions and contributor reputation system. We also expect that
>> App Engine developers will be able to contribute and benefit from the wider
>> range of language-related information not specific to App Engine. In
>> addition, due to Stack Overflow’s use of OpenID for account management,
>> developers will not need to create a new account to participate in the
>> discussion - developers will be able to log in with any of the identity
>> providers supported by Stack Overflow, including Google Accounts.
>>
>> We plan on deprecating the App Engine language-specific groups, namely
>> google-appengine-pythonand
>> google-appengine-java.
>> The 
>> google-appengine-godiscussion
>>  group will continue to remain open for at least as long as the
>> Go runtime is in experimental status.
>>
>> The Python and Java groups will be placed into read-only on March 5th,
>> 2012. While answering technical questions, we will begin nudging developers
>> to ask their questions on Stack Overflow using the google-app-engine 
>> tag
>> .
>>
>> Please let us know if there are any questions or concerns about this
>> announcement.
>>
>> Happy coding!
>>
>> - Ikai Lan, on behalf of the App Engine team*
>>
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>
>

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Aswath Satrasala]

-1 for SO.

-Aswath

On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 12:05 PM, Moises Belchin wrote:

> I'm not a big fan of SO.
>
>
> Saludos.
> Moisés Belchín.
>
>
> 2013/6/25 Hooman Korasani 
>
>> -1
>> Stackoverflow has a very strict FAQ rules, and questions are easily
>> closed.  I don't think it is a good idea to move support to that platform.
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, 7 February 2012 02:14:54 UTC, Ikai Lan wrote:
>>>
>>> *Hi App Engine Developers,
>>>
>>> In the last few years, the Q&A website Stack 
>>> Overflowhas become an invaluable tool for 
>>> developer communities. We’re pleased to
>>> announce that we are migrating to Stack Overflow as the official channel
>>> for answering development questions about Google App Engine.The
>>> google-appengine group 
>>> will remain open for general discussions and announcements that are
>>> better suited for the groups format.
>>>
>>> We believe that Stack Overflow is better platform for sharing knowledge
>>> and answering support questions given its larger community, de-duping of
>>> similar questions and contributor reputation system. We also expect that
>>> App Engine developers will be able to contribute and benefit from the wider
>>> range of language-related information not specific to App Engine. In
>>> addition, due to Stack Overflow’s use of OpenID for account management,
>>> developers will not need to create a new account to participate in the
>>> discussion - developers will be able to log in with any of the identity
>>> providers supported by Stack Overflow, including Google Accounts.
>>>
>>> We plan on deprecating the App Engine language-specific groups, namely
>>> google-appengine-pythonand
>>> google-appengine-java.
>>> The 
>>> google-appengine-godiscussion
>>>  group will continue to remain open for at least as long as the
>>> Go runtime is in experimental status.
>>>
>>> The Python and Java groups will be placed into read-only on March 5th,
>>> 2012. While answering technical questions, we will begin nudging developers
>>> to ask their questions on Stack Overflow using the google-app-engine 
>>> tag
>>> .
>>>
>>> Please let us know if there are any questions or concerns about this
>>> announcement.
>>>
>>> Happy coding!
>>>
>>> - Ikai Lan, on behalf of the App Engine team*
>>>
>>  --
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>>
>
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Jeff Schnitzer]

-1 for reviving a 1.5-year-old thread.

Jeff

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[PK]

Agree...

PK
www.gae123.com


On June 26, 2013 at 7:35:05 AM, Jeff Schnitzer (j...@infohazard.org) wrote:

-1 for reviving a 1.5-year-old thread.

Jeff


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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Vinny P]

On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 3:31 AM, Aayush Anand  wrote:

> hi.. I am an aspirant of GSOC '14.
> I did register as student and submitted my proposal. But yesterday when i 
> tried to login, I found that my access is suspended only to GSOC. I was 
> redirected to the page saying "If you've been redirected to this page from a 
> particular product, it means that your access to this product has been 
> suspended."
> (https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/40039?p=ah)
>
> i talked with google voice at GSOC forum and then from Melange developers. 
> Melange developers informed me that Melange uses App Engine for user 
> authentication and management
>
> at the same time i was working to fix a bug for the organisation for whom i 
> would like to work, on other tabs. This bug was relate to indifferent 
> behavior on session out. to recreate that bug i was deleting the cookies 
> again and again. after some time when i went back to my GSOC page and 
> refereshed it, i was redirected to that page saying "my access is suspended". 
> and from then i am facing this problem.
>
>

Considering that the Google Summer of Code deadline has already passed, the
following advice is probably too little too late.

If anyone else finds themselves in the same predicament though, the better
option would be to edit the cookies directly using a cookie manager
(depending on your browser, you can download different plugins for this)
instead of repeatedly deleting them. That way, you can set up a predictable
testing environment and rule out possible confounding factors. If you still
run into the automated block problem, try re-accessing the page from a
computer with a different IP address (and preferably from an entirely
different network).


 -
-Vinny P
Technology & Media Advisor
Chicago, IL

App Engine Code Samples: http://www.learntogoogleit.com

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

['Alex Martelli' via Google App Engine]

On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 6:24 PM, Clark Van Oyen  wrote:

> Great idea! Agreed, on it being a great thing that we can recursively
> define priorities within an established set of priorities in order to
> arrive at one deterministic path :) Best of luck in your new job!
>

I believe the proper wording is "break a leg" (I don't have any theatrical
background myself, but 2nd-hand that's how I heard it:-).

Alex

>
>
> On Wednesday, 4 February 2015 18:13:29 UTC-8, Alex Martelli wrote:
>>
>> Hi Clark,
>>
>> right -- *some* questions are system administration, so my plan (and I'm
>> pushing as hard as I can to make this happen soon!) is to use tag
>> google-cloud-platform on ServerFault for sysadm Qs (whether on GAE or any
>> other parts of GCP).  I just recently (<2 months, inc. holidays &c)
>> switched jobs within Google to "1:many tech support for cloud", and so far
>> I've been "drinking from the firehose" listening and learning more than
>> _doing_, but, the "bias for action" is taking over:-), but, I hope to make
>> this happen ASAP (the great things about priorities is that you can always
>> juggle them around to justify spending your time on what you think needs to
>> be done *right now*...!-).
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Alex
>>
>>
>> On Monday, February 2, 2015 at 12:10:14 PM UTC-8, Clark Van Oyen wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm not having a lot of luck getting a response on SO, since apparently
>>> not all App Engine discussions are related to "programming"...
>>>
>>> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/28285552/being-
>>> flooded-with-traffic-and-the-remote-ip-reported-in-app-
>>> engine-logs-as-sta?noredirect=1#comment44925358_28285552
>>> 
>>>
>>> On Monday, 6 February 2012 18:14:54 UTC-8, Ikai Lan wrote:















 *Hi App Engine Developers,In the last few years, the Q&A website Stack
 Overflow  has become an invaluable tool for
 developer communities. We’re pleased to announce that we are migrating to
 Stack Overflow as the official channel for answering development questions
 about Google App Engine.The google-appengine
  group will remain open
 for general discussions and announcements that are better suited for the
 groups format.We believe that Stack Overflow is better platform for sharing
 knowledge and answering support questions given its larger community,
 de-duping of similar questions and contributor reputation system. We also
 expect that App Engine developers will be able to contribute and benefit
 from the wider range of language-related information not specific to App
 Engine. In addition, due to Stack Overflow’s use of OpenID for account
 management, developers will not need to create a new account to participate
 in the discussion - developers will be able to log in with any of the
 identity providers supported by Stack Overflow, including Google
 Accounts.We plan on deprecating the App Engine language-specific groups,
 namely google-appengine-python
  and
 google-appengine-java
 . The
 google-appengine-go
 
 discussion group will continue to remain open for at least as long as the
 Go runtime is in experimental status. The Python and Java groups will be
 placed into read-only on March 5th, 2012. While answering technical
 questions, we will begin nudging developers to ask their questions on Stack
 Overflow using the google-app-engine tag
 .Please let us
 know if there are any questions or concerns about this announcement.Happy
 coding!- Ikai Lan, on behalf of the App Engine team*

>>>  --
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> "Google App Engine" group.
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

[Official George]

I want for real
On Oct 4, 2013 6:06 AM, "rcp"  wrote:

> -1 from an 'enthusiast programmer'; SO considers me un-washed despite my
> relentless effort to be concise and precise.
>
>
> On Monday, February 6, 2012 6:14:54 PM UTC-8, Ikai Lan wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Hi App Engine Developers,In the last few years, the Q&A website Stack
>> Overflow  has become an invaluable tool for
>> developer communities. We’re pleased to announce that we are migrating to
>> Stack Overflow as the official channel for answering development questions
>> about Google App Engine.The google-appengine
>>  group will remain open
>> for general discussions and announcements that are better suited for the
>> groups format.We believe that Stack Overflow is better platform for sharing
>> knowledge and answering support questions given its larger community,
>> de-duping of similar questions and contributor reputation system. We also
>> expect that App Engine developers will be able to contribute and benefit
>> from the wider range of language-related information not specific to App
>> Engine. In addition, due to Stack Overflow’s use of OpenID for account
>> management, developers will not need to create a new account to participate
>> in the discussion - developers will be able to log in with any of the
>> identity providers supported by Stack Overflow, including Google
>> Accounts.We plan on deprecating the App Engine language-specific groups,
>> namely google-appengine-python
>>  and
>> google-appengine-java
>> . The
>> google-appengine-go
>> 
>> discussion group will continue to remain open for at least as long as the
>> Go runtime is in experimental status. The Python and Java groups will be
>> placed into read-only on March 5th, 2012. While answering technical
>> questions, we will begin nudging developers to ask their questions on Stack
>> Overflow using the google-app-engine tag
>> .Please let us
>> know if there are any questions or concerns about this announcement.Happy
>> coding!- Ikai Lan, on behalf of the App Engine team*
>>
>  --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the
> Google Groups "Google App Engine" group.
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine community support is moving to Stack Overflow

['Alex Martelli' via Google App Engine]

On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 5:23 AM, Official George 
wrote:

> I want for real
>
Sorry, it's opaque to me what you mean by that.  Elucidate please?

Alex


> On Oct 4, 2013 6:06 AM, "rcp"  wrote:
>
>> -1 from an 'enthusiast programmer'; SO considers me un-washed despite my
>> relentless effort to be concise and precise.
>>
>>
>> On Monday, February 6, 2012 6:14:54 PM UTC-8, Ikai Lan wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Hi App Engine Developers,In the last few years, the Q&A website Stack
>>> Overflow  has become an invaluable tool for
>>> developer communities. We’re pleased to announce that we are migrating to
>>> Stack Overflow as the official channel for answering development questions
>>> about Google App Engine.The google-appengine
>>>  group will remain open
>>> for general discussions and announcements that are better suited for the
>>> groups format.We believe that Stack Overflow is better platform for sharing
>>> knowledge and answering support questions given its larger community,
>>> de-duping of similar questions and contributor reputation system. We also
>>> expect that App Engine developers will be able to contribute and benefit
>>> from the wider range of language-related information not specific to App
>>> Engine. In addition, due to Stack Overflow’s use of OpenID for account
>>> management, developers will not need to create a new account to participate
>>> in the discussion - developers will be able to log in with any of the
>>> identity providers supported by Stack Overflow, including Google
>>> Accounts.We plan on deprecating the App Engine language-specific groups,
>>> namely google-appengine-python
>>>  and
>>> google-appengine-java
>>> . The
>>> google-appengine-go
>>> 
>>> discussion group will continue to remain open for at least as long as the
>>> Go runtime is in experimental status. The Python and Java groups will be
>>> placed into read-only on March 5th, 2012. While answering technical
>>> questions, we will begin nudging developers to ask their questions on Stack
>>> Overflow using the google-app-engine tag
>>> .Please let us
>>> know if there are any questions or concerns about this announcement.Happy
>>> coding!- Ikai Lan, on behalf of the App Engine team*
>>>
>>  --
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>>
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