[appengine-java] Re: Flash arcade game GAE based
> Meanwhile, I was successfully able to connect to App Engine from > native XMPP client calledPidgin. Which settings did you used in the Pidgin client? ~Owen -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine for Java" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine-j...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine-java+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine-java?hl=en.
Re: [appengine-java] Re: Flash arcade game GAE based
I don't know of any. You could try a search for a cheap VPS. I like Slicehost and Linode for these sorts of things, but the smallest plans are $20 a month and you'll have to configure your own stack. I understand your disappointment, but we do document very clearly that App Engine is built for web applications with support for email and XMPP. Our goal is to try to do as much as we can within this domain, and it's not apparent that allow raw socket access fits into this plan (web sockets and long-polling definitely do, but they are not what you are looking for here). On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 12:24 PM, Ahmed Khalifa wrote: > thanks for the great help .. > the problem is that GAE provided an excellent online developping > platform that allowed me to upload my code and update the versions of > the game and test it on daily basis .. it was a great disappointment > to know that sandbox restrictions prevent me from opening a socket but > any how .. i just need to move to another platform .. > the problem is, it seems that my server will need less restrictions > than the free hosts usually provide .. > i would really appreciate it if you can help me with a start .. if > there's any website that hosts web applications from the type of my > game for free (at least in the beginning of deployment ) i would be > very happy to know about it .. > best regards, > A. Khalifa > > On Mar 8, 10:50 pm, nicolas melendez wrote: >> Hi, there are defferent types of games, first you should know in which >> category your game is: >> >> 1) Real time, like Quake, you need a Socket connection, TCP when you want >> reliable data and also UDP when reliable data is not important and will >> change soon, like position in a map. So GAE won't help you, HTTP and also >> XMPP are very slow for that kind of game where 500ms is eternity. >> >> 2) Game with turns, like a chess game. Here Gae Can help you with HTTP or >> XMPP. >> I am making a game based on turns, i have choose the XMPP way, but i didn't >> finish yet, so i can't it was a right choice. But for the moment i can say, >> that your >> main dificult task, will be time optimization with the satastore. >> Also you should know that XMPP works right in deployment, but in >> development, you can't test your application. Here you need to do some hack, >> simulate XMPP responses. >> >> 3) Web base games, the are very static and time isn't important, here GAE >> also can help you. an example ishttp://www.mafia-family.com. >> >> Hope i Help. >> NM >> >> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 5:11 PM, Ikai L (Google) wrote: >> >> > HTTP is just not a great protocol for real time games. Even with XMPP, >> > there's a chance outgoing responses will be queued and delayed for a >> > bit as capacity requires. >> >> > If you want it to be truly real time, you'll have to develop your own >> > server that is capable of maintaining an open socket connection. >> > Trying to fit client/server communications in a real time game into >> > the HTTP model is like trying to watch a movie by having your friend >> > record it on his camera phone and MMSing it to you as quickly as >> > possible. >> >> > On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 9:08 AM, Ahmed Khalifa >> > wrote: >> > > I have to tell you that i had to slow down the rate by which flash >> > > sends requests to the server in order to give GAE some time to respond >> > > which consequently kills the real-time game play intended .. >> > > after all, even if GAE was not a good choice for a semi-real time game >> > > can anyone please give me valid reasons for why to disregard GAE?? >> > > many people are keeping telling me that but no one is giving me real >> > > reasons for why .. plus, i have been really distracted by the amount >> > > of suggestions that do not converge to on direction .. some are >> > > suggesting using XMPP, others say long polling is the way, some say >> > > GraniteDS is a valid option along with memcache .. I am really >> > > confused about the decision to be taken .. >> > > regards, >> > > A. Khalifa >> >> > > On Mar 8, 6:21 pm, Robert Lancer wrote: >> > >> Yeah, I certainly would not use GAE Java for anything that has to be >> > >> semi real time. Have you checked out Red5.org or Web Orb at >> > >> themidnightcoders.com? Those are designed to work directly with >> > >> Flash. >> >> > >> On Mar 8, 10:56 am, Ahmed Khalifa wrote: >> >> > >> > thanks a lot .. >> > >> > however, i am still doubtful about the source of latency .. is it GAE >> > >> > itself not supporting a certain feature that allows real-time response >> > >> > or it is something that i lacked .. >> > >> > thanks in advance .. >> >> > >> > On Mar 4, 3:27 pm, Toby wrote: >> >> > >> > > Hi Ahmed, >> >> > >> > > take a look at GraniteDS. It is a bit like blazeds with the ability >> > to >> > >> > > push and syncronize data between multiple clients. It uses a very >> > >> > > efficient serialization and it runs on GAE: >> >http://graniteds.blogspot.com/2009/04/graniteds-20-on-google-app-engi..
[appengine-java] Re: Flash arcade game GAE based
thanks for the great help .. the problem is that GAE provided an excellent online developping platform that allowed me to upload my code and update the versions of the game and test it on daily basis .. it was a great disappointment to know that sandbox restrictions prevent me from opening a socket but any how .. i just need to move to another platform .. the problem is, it seems that my server will need less restrictions than the free hosts usually provide .. i would really appreciate it if you can help me with a start .. if there's any website that hosts web applications from the type of my game for free (at least in the beginning of deployment ) i would be very happy to know about it .. best regards, A. Khalifa On Mar 8, 10:50 pm, nicolas melendez wrote: > Hi, there are defferent types of games, first you should know in which > category your game is: > > 1) Real time, like Quake, you need a Socket connection, TCP when you want > reliable data and also UDP when reliable data is not important and will > change soon, like position in a map. So GAE won't help you, HTTP and also > XMPP are very slow for that kind of game where 500ms is eternity. > > 2) Game with turns, like a chess game. Here Gae Can help you with HTTP or > XMPP. > I am making a game based on turns, i have choose the XMPP way, but i didn't > finish yet, so i can't it was a right choice. But for the moment i can say, > that your > main dificult task, will be time optimization with the satastore. > Also you should know that XMPP works right in deployment, but in > development, you can't test your application. Here you need to do some hack, > simulate XMPP responses. > > 3) Web base games, the are very static and time isn't important, here GAE > also can help you. an example ishttp://www.mafia-family.com. > > Hope i Help. > NM > > On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 5:11 PM, Ikai L (Google) wrote: > > > HTTP is just not a great protocol for real time games. Even with XMPP, > > there's a chance outgoing responses will be queued and delayed for a > > bit as capacity requires. > > > If you want it to be truly real time, you'll have to develop your own > > server that is capable of maintaining an open socket connection. > > Trying to fit client/server communications in a real time game into > > the HTTP model is like trying to watch a movie by having your friend > > record it on his camera phone and MMSing it to you as quickly as > > possible. > > > On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 9:08 AM, Ahmed Khalifa > > wrote: > > > I have to tell you that i had to slow down the rate by which flash > > > sends requests to the server in order to give GAE some time to respond > > > which consequently kills the real-time game play intended .. > > > after all, even if GAE was not a good choice for a semi-real time game > > > can anyone please give me valid reasons for why to disregard GAE?? > > > many people are keeping telling me that but no one is giving me real > > > reasons for why .. plus, i have been really distracted by the amount > > > of suggestions that do not converge to on direction .. some are > > > suggesting using XMPP, others say long polling is the way, some say > > > GraniteDS is a valid option along with memcache .. I am really > > > confused about the decision to be taken .. > > > regards, > > > A. Khalifa > > > > On Mar 8, 6:21 pm, Robert Lancer wrote: > > >> Yeah, I certainly would not use GAE Java for anything that has to be > > >> semi real time. Have you checked out Red5.org or Web Orb at > > >> themidnightcoders.com? Those are designed to work directly with > > >> Flash. > > > >> On Mar 8, 10:56 am, Ahmed Khalifa wrote: > > > >> > thanks a lot .. > > >> > however, i am still doubtful about the source of latency .. is it GAE > > >> > itself not supporting a certain feature that allows real-time response > > >> > or it is something that i lacked .. > > >> > thanks in advance .. > > > >> > On Mar 4, 3:27 pm, Toby wrote: > > > >> > > Hi Ahmed, > > > >> > > take a look at GraniteDS. It is a bit like blazeds with the ability > > to > > >> > > push and syncronize data between multiple clients. It uses a very > > >> > > efficient serialization and it runs on GAE: > >http://graniteds.blogspot.com/2009/04/graniteds-20-on-google-app-engi... > > >> > > on server side you just need to make sure that the datastore updates > > >> > > do not block your clients. I would suggest using memcache and to add > > >> > > datastore updates to the task queue. > > >> > > So when you receive a data change from a client you update the > > >> > > memcache value, you propagate the change to all clients and you put > > on > > >> > > the task queue a request for the data to be saved. This will be done > > >> > > asynchronously. > > > >> > > Cheers, > > >> > > Toby > > > >> > > On Mar 3, 5:47 am, nicolas melendez wrote: > > > >> > > > I want to do the same. Is there any good XMPP Java framework to > > include in > > >> > > > my Applet? recomendations? > > >> > > > Thanks > > >> > > >
Re: [appengine-java] Re: Flash arcade game GAE based
I'm no expert on this subject at all. A quick Google search: http://www.google.com/search?q=socket+programming+games Before you invest in this, however, you'll want to think about Nicolas's last email. I'm not familiar with OpenFire web server, but Nicolas is dead on if you are building a truly real-time game: don't use HTTP. On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 12:57 PM, Ahmed Khalifa wrote: > thanks Ikai for the tip .. > can you illustrate more .. give me a start point .. example code or > any useful link?? > also, do you think openFire webserver can be useful in this case .. > best regards, > > On Mar 8, 10:11 pm, "Ikai L (Google)" wrote: >> HTTP is just not a great protocol for real time games. Even with XMPP, >> there's a chance outgoing responses will be queued and delayed for a >> bit as capacity requires. >> >> If you want it to be truly real time, you'll have to develop your own >> server that is capable of maintaining an open socket connection. >> Trying to fit client/server communications in a real time game into >> the HTTP model is like trying to watch a movie by having your friend >> record it on his camera phone and MMSing it to you as quickly as >> possible. >> >> >> >> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 9:08 AM, Ahmed Khalifa wrote: >> > I have to tell you that i had to slow down the rate by which flash >> > sends requests to the server in order to give GAE some time to respond >> > which consequently kills the real-time game play intended .. >> > after all, even if GAE was not a good choice for a semi-real time game >> > can anyone please give me valid reasons for why to disregard GAE?? >> > many people are keeping telling me that but no one is giving me real >> > reasons for why .. plus, i have been really distracted by the amount >> > of suggestions that do not converge to on direction .. some are >> > suggesting using XMPP, others say long polling is the way, some say >> > GraniteDS is a valid option along with memcache .. I am really >> > confused about the decision to be taken .. >> > regards, >> > A. Khalifa >> >> > On Mar 8, 6:21 pm, Robert Lancer wrote: >> >> Yeah, I certainly would not use GAE Java for anything that has to be >> >> semi real time. Have you checked out Red5.org or Web Orb at >> >> themidnightcoders.com? Those are designed to work directly with >> >> Flash. >> >> >> On Mar 8, 10:56 am, Ahmed Khalifa wrote: >> >> >> > thanks a lot .. >> >> > however, i am still doubtful about the source of latency .. is it GAE >> >> > itself not supporting a certain feature that allows real-time response >> >> > or it is something that i lacked .. >> >> > thanks in advance .. >> >> >> > On Mar 4, 3:27 pm, Toby wrote: >> >> >> > > Hi Ahmed, >> >> >> > > take a look at GraniteDS. It is a bit like blazeds with the ability to >> >> > > push and syncronize data between multiple clients. It uses a very >> >> > > efficient serialization and it runs on >> >> > > GAE:http://graniteds.blogspot.com/2009/04/graniteds-20-on-google-app-engi... >> >> > > on server side you just need to make sure that the datastore updates >> >> > > do not block your clients. I would suggest using memcache and to add >> >> > > datastore updates to the task queue. >> >> > > So when you receive a data change from a client you update the >> >> > > memcache value, you propagate the change to all clients and you put on >> >> > > the task queue a request for the data to be saved. This will be done >> >> > > asynchronously. >> >> >> > > Cheers, >> >> > > Toby >> >> >> > > On Mar 3, 5:47 am, nicolas melendez wrote: >> >> >> > > > I want to do the same. Is there any good XMPP Java framework to >> >> > > > include in >> >> > > > my Applet? recomendations? >> >> > > > Thanks >> >> > > > NM >> >> >> > > > On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 11:31 PM, wrote: >> >> > > > > Kaz, >> >> > > > > Not sure about the CPU (we are still at the proof of concept >> >> > > > > stage for >> >> > > > > using GAE). We are using the polling aspect since our business >> >> > > > > requires updates with 5-15 minutes. Its not very time intensive >> >> > > > > like a >> >> > > > > game would be. >> >> >> > > > > Good luck, >> >> >> > > > > Tim >> >> >> > > > > > Tim, >> >> >> > > > > > But isn't it so expensive to use the AMF/HTTP comet technique >> >> > > > > > on the >> >> > > > > > appengine? CPU usage can be extremely high. Or you have to use >> >> > > > > > AMF/ >> >> > > > > > HTTP polling which is not so responsive for gaming. >> >> >> > > > > > Thanks, >> >> >> > > > > > Kaz >> >> >> > > > > > On Mar 2, 7:43 pm, "tsp...@green20now.com" >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > wrote: >> >> > > > > >> Take a look at GraniteDS or other AMF supporting tools. I am >> >> > > > > >> using >> >> > > > > >> GraniteDS to push data to a Flex client. >> >> > > > > >> It is fairly simple to setup so you can perform trsting and >> >> > > > > >> find the >> >> > > > > >> limitations which would impact your game. >> >> >> > > > > >> Tim >> >> >> > > > > >> Sent from my Verizon W
[appengine-java] Re: Flash arcade game GAE based
thanks Ikai for the tip .. can you illustrate more .. give me a start point .. example code or any useful link?? also, do you think openFire webserver can be useful in this case .. best regards, On Mar 8, 10:11 pm, "Ikai L (Google)" wrote: > HTTP is just not a great protocol for real time games. Even with XMPP, > there's a chance outgoing responses will be queued and delayed for a > bit as capacity requires. > > If you want it to be truly real time, you'll have to develop your own > server that is capable of maintaining an open socket connection. > Trying to fit client/server communications in a real time game into > the HTTP model is like trying to watch a movie by having your friend > record it on his camera phone and MMSing it to you as quickly as > possible. > > > > On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 9:08 AM, Ahmed Khalifa wrote: > > I have to tell you that i had to slow down the rate by which flash > > sends requests to the server in order to give GAE some time to respond > > which consequently kills the real-time game play intended .. > > after all, even if GAE was not a good choice for a semi-real time game > > can anyone please give me valid reasons for why to disregard GAE?? > > many people are keeping telling me that but no one is giving me real > > reasons for why .. plus, i have been really distracted by the amount > > of suggestions that do not converge to on direction .. some are > > suggesting using XMPP, others say long polling is the way, some say > > GraniteDS is a valid option along with memcache .. I am really > > confused about the decision to be taken .. > > regards, > > A. Khalifa > > > On Mar 8, 6:21 pm, Robert Lancer wrote: > >> Yeah, I certainly would not use GAE Java for anything that has to be > >> semi real time. Have you checked out Red5.org or Web Orb at > >> themidnightcoders.com? Those are designed to work directly with > >> Flash. > > >> On Mar 8, 10:56 am, Ahmed Khalifa wrote: > > >> > thanks a lot .. > >> > however, i am still doubtful about the source of latency .. is it GAE > >> > itself not supporting a certain feature that allows real-time response > >> > or it is something that i lacked .. > >> > thanks in advance .. > > >> > On Mar 4, 3:27 pm, Toby wrote: > > >> > > Hi Ahmed, > > >> > > take a look at GraniteDS. It is a bit like blazeds with the ability to > >> > > push and syncronize data between multiple clients. It uses a very > >> > > efficient serialization and it runs on > >> > > GAE:http://graniteds.blogspot.com/2009/04/graniteds-20-on-google-app-engi... > >> > > on server side you just need to make sure that the datastore updates > >> > > do not block your clients. I would suggest using memcache and to add > >> > > datastore updates to the task queue. > >> > > So when you receive a data change from a client you update the > >> > > memcache value, you propagate the change to all clients and you put on > >> > > the task queue a request for the data to be saved. This will be done > >> > > asynchronously. > > >> > > Cheers, > >> > > Toby > > >> > > On Mar 3, 5:47 am, nicolas melendez wrote: > > >> > > > I want to do the same. Is there any good XMPP Java framework to > >> > > > include in > >> > > > my Applet? recomendations? > >> > > > Thanks > >> > > > NM > > >> > > > On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 11:31 PM, wrote: > >> > > > > Kaz, > >> > > > > Not sure about the CPU (we are still at the proof of concept > >> > > > > stage for > >> > > > > using GAE). We are using the polling aspect since our business > >> > > > > requires updates with 5-15 minutes. Its not very time intensive > >> > > > > like a > >> > > > > game would be. > > >> > > > > Good luck, > > >> > > > > Tim > > >> > > > > > Tim, > > >> > > > > > But isn't it so expensive to use the AMF/HTTP comet technique on > >> > > > > > the > >> > > > > > appengine? CPU usage can be extremely high. Or you have to use > >> > > > > > AMF/ > >> > > > > > HTTP polling which is not so responsive for gaming. > > >> > > > > > Thanks, > > >> > > > > > Kaz > > >> > > > > > On Mar 2, 7:43 pm, "tsp...@green20now.com" > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > wrote: > >> > > > > >> Take a look at GraniteDS or other AMF supporting tools. I am > >> > > > > >> using > >> > > > > >> GraniteDS to push data to a Flex client. > >> > > > > >> It is fairly simple to setup so you can perform trsting and > >> > > > > >> find the > >> > > > > >> limitations which would impact your game. > > >> > > > > >> Tim > > >> > > > > >> Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone > > >> > > > > >> - Reply message - > >> > > > > >> From: "Jeff Schnitzer" > >> > > > > >> Date: Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:50 AM > >> > > > > >> Subject: [appengine-java] Flash arcade game GAE based > >> > > > > >> To: > > >> > > > > >> It would be extraordinarily difficult to use Appengine for this > >> > > > > >> sort > >> > > > > >> of project. You probably want a server framework that supports > >> > > > > >> persistent connections and in-memory state that won't disappear > >> >
Re: [appengine-java] Re: Flash arcade game GAE based
Hi, there are defferent types of games, first you should know in which category your game is: 1) Real time, like Quake, you need a Socket connection, TCP when you want reliable data and also UDP when reliable data is not important and will change soon, like position in a map. So GAE won't help you, HTTP and also XMPP are very slow for that kind of game where 500ms is eternity. 2) Game with turns, like a chess game. Here Gae Can help you with HTTP or XMPP. I am making a game based on turns, i have choose the XMPP way, but i didn't finish yet, so i can't it was a right choice. But for the moment i can say, that your main dificult task, will be time optimization with the satastore. Also you should know that XMPP works right in deployment, but in development, you can't test your application. Here you need to do some hack, simulate XMPP responses. 3) Web base games, the are very static and time isn't important, here GAE also can help you. an example is http://www.mafia-family.com. Hope i Help. NM On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 5:11 PM, Ikai L (Google) wrote: > HTTP is just not a great protocol for real time games. Even with XMPP, > there's a chance outgoing responses will be queued and delayed for a > bit as capacity requires. > > If you want it to be truly real time, you'll have to develop your own > server that is capable of maintaining an open socket connection. > Trying to fit client/server communications in a real time game into > the HTTP model is like trying to watch a movie by having your friend > record it on his camera phone and MMSing it to you as quickly as > possible. > > On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 9:08 AM, Ahmed Khalifa > wrote: > > I have to tell you that i had to slow down the rate by which flash > > sends requests to the server in order to give GAE some time to respond > > which consequently kills the real-time game play intended .. > > after all, even if GAE was not a good choice for a semi-real time game > > can anyone please give me valid reasons for why to disregard GAE?? > > many people are keeping telling me that but no one is giving me real > > reasons for why .. plus, i have been really distracted by the amount > > of suggestions that do not converge to on direction .. some are > > suggesting using XMPP, others say long polling is the way, some say > > GraniteDS is a valid option along with memcache .. I am really > > confused about the decision to be taken .. > > regards, > > A. Khalifa > > > > On Mar 8, 6:21 pm, Robert Lancer wrote: > >> Yeah, I certainly would not use GAE Java for anything that has to be > >> semi real time. Have you checked out Red5.org or Web Orb at > >> themidnightcoders.com? Those are designed to work directly with > >> Flash. > >> > >> On Mar 8, 10:56 am, Ahmed Khalifa wrote: > >> > >> > thanks a lot .. > >> > however, i am still doubtful about the source of latency .. is it GAE > >> > itself not supporting a certain feature that allows real-time response > >> > or it is something that i lacked .. > >> > thanks in advance .. > >> > >> > On Mar 4, 3:27 pm, Toby wrote: > >> > >> > > Hi Ahmed, > >> > >> > > take a look at GraniteDS. It is a bit like blazeds with the ability > to > >> > > push and syncronize data between multiple clients. It uses a very > >> > > efficient serialization and it runs on GAE: > http://graniteds.blogspot.com/2009/04/graniteds-20-on-google-app-engi... > >> > > on server side you just need to make sure that the datastore updates > >> > > do not block your clients. I would suggest using memcache and to add > >> > > datastore updates to the task queue. > >> > > So when you receive a data change from a client you update the > >> > > memcache value, you propagate the change to all clients and you put > on > >> > > the task queue a request for the data to be saved. This will be done > >> > > asynchronously. > >> > >> > > Cheers, > >> > > Toby > >> > >> > > On Mar 3, 5:47 am, nicolas melendez wrote: > >> > >> > > > I want to do the same. Is there any good XMPP Java framework to > include in > >> > > > my Applet? recomendations? > >> > > > Thanks > >> > > > NM > >> > >> > > > On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 11:31 PM, wrote: > >> > > > > Kaz, > >> > > > >Not sure about the CPU (we are still at the proof of concept > stage for > >> > > > > using GAE). We are using the polling aspect since our business > >> > > > > requires updates with 5-15 minutes. Its not very time intensive > like a > >> > > > > game would be. > >> > >> > > > > Good luck, > >> > >> > > > > Tim > >> > >> > > > > > Tim, > >> > >> > > > > > But isn't it so expensive to use the AMF/HTTP comet technique > on the > >> > > > > > appengine? CPU usage can be extremely high. Or you have to use > AMF/ > >> > > > > > HTTP polling which is not so responsive for gaming. > >> > >> > > > > > Thanks, > >> > >> > > > > > Kaz > >> > >> > > > > > On Mar 2, 7:43 pm, "tsp...@green20now.com" < > tsp...@green20now.com> > >> > > > > > wrote: > >> > > > > >> Take a look at GraniteDS or other AMF supp
Re: [appengine-java] Re: Flash arcade game GAE based
HTTP is just not a great protocol for real time games. Even with XMPP, there's a chance outgoing responses will be queued and delayed for a bit as capacity requires. If you want it to be truly real time, you'll have to develop your own server that is capable of maintaining an open socket connection. Trying to fit client/server communications in a real time game into the HTTP model is like trying to watch a movie by having your friend record it on his camera phone and MMSing it to you as quickly as possible. On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 9:08 AM, Ahmed Khalifa wrote: > I have to tell you that i had to slow down the rate by which flash > sends requests to the server in order to give GAE some time to respond > which consequently kills the real-time game play intended .. > after all, even if GAE was not a good choice for a semi-real time game > can anyone please give me valid reasons for why to disregard GAE?? > many people are keeping telling me that but no one is giving me real > reasons for why .. plus, i have been really distracted by the amount > of suggestions that do not converge to on direction .. some are > suggesting using XMPP, others say long polling is the way, some say > GraniteDS is a valid option along with memcache .. I am really > confused about the decision to be taken .. > regards, > A. Khalifa > > On Mar 8, 6:21 pm, Robert Lancer wrote: >> Yeah, I certainly would not use GAE Java for anything that has to be >> semi real time. Have you checked out Red5.org or Web Orb at >> themidnightcoders.com? Those are designed to work directly with >> Flash. >> >> On Mar 8, 10:56 am, Ahmed Khalifa wrote: >> >> > thanks a lot .. >> > however, i am still doubtful about the source of latency .. is it GAE >> > itself not supporting a certain feature that allows real-time response >> > or it is something that i lacked .. >> > thanks in advance .. >> >> > On Mar 4, 3:27 pm, Toby wrote: >> >> > > Hi Ahmed, >> >> > > take a look at GraniteDS. It is a bit like blazeds with the ability to >> > > push and syncronize data between multiple clients. It uses a very >> > > efficient serialization and it runs on >> > > GAE:http://graniteds.blogspot.com/2009/04/graniteds-20-on-google-app-engi... >> > > on server side you just need to make sure that the datastore updates >> > > do not block your clients. I would suggest using memcache and to add >> > > datastore updates to the task queue. >> > > So when you receive a data change from a client you update the >> > > memcache value, you propagate the change to all clients and you put on >> > > the task queue a request for the data to be saved. This will be done >> > > asynchronously. >> >> > > Cheers, >> > > Toby >> >> > > On Mar 3, 5:47 am, nicolas melendez wrote: >> >> > > > I want to do the same. Is there any good XMPP Java framework to >> > > > include in >> > > > my Applet? recomendations? >> > > > Thanks >> > > > NM >> >> > > > On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 11:31 PM, wrote: >> > > > > Kaz, >> > > > > Not sure about the CPU (we are still at the proof of concept >> > > > > stage for >> > > > > using GAE). We are using the polling aspect since our business >> > > > > requires updates with 5-15 minutes. Its not very time intensive like >> > > > > a >> > > > > game would be. >> >> > > > > Good luck, >> >> > > > > Tim >> >> > > > > > Tim, >> >> > > > > > But isn't it so expensive to use the AMF/HTTP comet technique on >> > > > > > the >> > > > > > appengine? CPU usage can be extremely high. Or you have to use AMF/ >> > > > > > HTTP polling which is not so responsive for gaming. >> >> > > > > > Thanks, >> >> > > > > > Kaz >> >> > > > > > On Mar 2, 7:43 pm, "tsp...@green20now.com" >> > > > > > wrote: >> > > > > >> Take a look at GraniteDS or other AMF supporting tools. I am using >> > > > > >> GraniteDS to push data to a Flex client. >> > > > > >> It is fairly simple to setup so you can perform trsting and find >> > > > > >> the >> > > > > >> limitations which would impact your game. >> >> > > > > >> Tim >> >> > > > > >> Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone >> >> > > > > >> - Reply message - >> > > > > >> From: "Jeff Schnitzer" >> > > > > >> Date: Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:50 AM >> > > > > >> Subject: [appengine-java] Flash arcade game GAE based >> > > > > >> To: >> >> > > > > >> It would be extraordinarily difficult to use Appengine for this >> > > > > >> sort >> > > > > >> of project. You probably want a server framework that supports >> > > > > >> persistent connections and in-memory state that won't disappear >> > > > > >> when a >> > > > > >> memcache server is flushed. >> >> > > > > >> Here's a good starting point: >> > > > > >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_game_engines >> >> > > > > >> Jeff >> >> > > > > >> On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 11:58 PM, Ahmed Khalifa >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> wrote: >> > > > > >> > hi all, >> > > > > >> > I am writing a multiplayer flash arcade game in actionscript .. >> > > > > >> > i have >> > > > > >> > discovered GAE recen
[appengine-java] Re: Flash arcade game GAE based
I have to tell you that i had to slow down the rate by which flash sends requests to the server in order to give GAE some time to respond which consequently kills the real-time game play intended .. after all, even if GAE was not a good choice for a semi-real time game can anyone please give me valid reasons for why to disregard GAE?? many people are keeping telling me that but no one is giving me real reasons for why .. plus, i have been really distracted by the amount of suggestions that do not converge to on direction .. some are suggesting using XMPP, others say long polling is the way, some say GraniteDS is a valid option along with memcache .. I am really confused about the decision to be taken .. regards, A. Khalifa On Mar 8, 6:21 pm, Robert Lancer wrote: > Yeah, I certainly would not use GAE Java for anything that has to be > semi real time. Have you checked out Red5.org or Web Orb at > themidnightcoders.com? Those are designed to work directly with > Flash. > > On Mar 8, 10:56 am, Ahmed Khalifa wrote: > > > thanks a lot .. > > however, i am still doubtful about the source of latency .. is it GAE > > itself not supporting a certain feature that allows real-time response > > or it is something that i lacked .. > > thanks in advance .. > > > On Mar 4, 3:27 pm, Toby wrote: > > > > Hi Ahmed, > > > > take a look at GraniteDS. It is a bit like blazeds with the ability to > > > push and syncronize data between multiple clients. It uses a very > > > efficient serialization and it runs on > > > GAE:http://graniteds.blogspot.com/2009/04/graniteds-20-on-google-app-engi... > > > on server side you just need to make sure that the datastore updates > > > do not block your clients. I would suggest using memcache and to add > > > datastore updates to the task queue. > > > So when you receive a data change from a client you update the > > > memcache value, you propagate the change to all clients and you put on > > > the task queue a request for the data to be saved. This will be done > > > asynchronously. > > > > Cheers, > > > Toby > > > > On Mar 3, 5:47 am, nicolas melendez wrote: > > > > > I want to do the same. Is there any good XMPP Java framework to include > > > > in > > > > my Applet? recomendations? > > > > Thanks > > > > NM > > > > > On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 11:31 PM, wrote: > > > > > Kaz, > > > > > Not sure about the CPU (we are still at the proof of concept stage > > > > > for > > > > > using GAE). We are using the polling aspect since our business > > > > > requires updates with 5-15 minutes. Its not very time intensive like a > > > > > game would be. > > > > > > Good luck, > > > > > > Tim > > > > > > > Tim, > > > > > > > But isn't it so expensive to use the AMF/HTTP comet technique on the > > > > > > appengine? CPU usage can be extremely high. Or you have to use AMF/ > > > > > > HTTP polling which is not so responsive for gaming. > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > Kaz > > > > > > > On Mar 2, 7:43 pm, "tsp...@green20now.com" > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > >> Take a look at GraniteDS or other AMF supporting tools. I am using > > > > > >> GraniteDS to push data to a Flex client. > > > > > >> It is fairly simple to setup so you can perform trsting and find > > > > > >> the > > > > > >> limitations which would impact your game. > > > > > > >> Tim > > > > > > >> Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone > > > > > > >> - Reply message - > > > > > >> From: "Jeff Schnitzer" > > > > > >> Date: Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:50 AM > > > > > >> Subject: [appengine-java] Flash arcade game GAE based > > > > > >> To: > > > > > > >> It would be extraordinarily difficult to use Appengine for this > > > > > >> sort > > > > > >> of project. You probably want a server framework that supports > > > > > >> persistent connections and in-memory state that won't disappear > > > > > >> when a > > > > > >> memcache server is flushed. > > > > > > >> Here's a good starting point: > > > > > >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_game_engines > > > > > > >> Jeff > > > > > > >> On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 11:58 PM, Ahmed Khalifa > > > > > >> > > > > > >> wrote: > > > > > >> > hi all, > > > > > >> > I am writing a multiplayer flash arcade game in actionscript .. > > > > > >> > i have > > > > > >> > discovered GAE recently and thought that it might be a very good > > > > > >> > choice for building and hosting my server .. > > > > > >> > however, i realize that arcade games need an almost realtime > > > > > >> > responsive capacity from the server .. besides the server has to > > > > > >> > be > > > > > >> > looping on receiving position object of Client A, storing it in > > > > > >> > a DB, > > > > > >> > Fetching Client B position object and sending it back .. this > > > > > >> > will > > > > > >> > result in a huge number of DB requests either storing, fetching > > > > > >> > or > > > > > >> > deleting which will quickly exhaust the CPU quota for the > > > > > >> > application .. > > > > > > >> > So, I was wondering if any
[appengine-java] Re: Flash arcade game GAE based
Yeah, I certainly would not use GAE Java for anything that has to be semi real time. Have you checked out Red5.org or Web Orb at themidnightcoders.com? Those are designed to work directly with Flash. On Mar 8, 10:56 am, Ahmed Khalifa wrote: > thanks a lot .. > however, i am still doubtful about the source of latency .. is it GAE > itself not supporting a certain feature that allows real-time response > or it is something that i lacked .. > thanks in advance .. > > On Mar 4, 3:27 pm, Toby wrote: > > > > > Hi Ahmed, > > > take a look at GraniteDS. It is a bit like blazeds with the ability to > > push and syncronize data between multiple clients. It uses a very > > efficient serialization and it runs on > > GAE:http://graniteds.blogspot.com/2009/04/graniteds-20-on-google-app-engi... > > on server side you just need to make sure that the datastore updates > > do not block your clients. I would suggest using memcache and to add > > datastore updates to the task queue. > > So when you receive a data change from a client you update the > > memcache value, you propagate the change to all clients and you put on > > the task queue a request for the data to be saved. This will be done > > asynchronously. > > > Cheers, > > Toby > > > On Mar 3, 5:47 am, nicolas melendez wrote: > > > > I want to do the same. Is there any good XMPP Java framework to include in > > > my Applet? recomendations? > > > Thanks > > > NM > > > > On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 11:31 PM, wrote: > > > > Kaz, > > > > Not sure about the CPU (we are still at the proof of concept stage > > > > for > > > > using GAE). We are using the polling aspect since our business > > > > requires updates with 5-15 minutes. Its not very time intensive like a > > > > game would be. > > > > > Good luck, > > > > > Tim > > > > > > Tim, > > > > > > But isn't it so expensive to use the AMF/HTTP comet technique on the > > > > > appengine? CPU usage can be extremely high. Or you have to use AMF/ > > > > > HTTP polling which is not so responsive for gaming. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Kaz > > > > > > On Mar 2, 7:43 pm, "tsp...@green20now.com" > > > > > wrote: > > > > >> Take a look at GraniteDS or other AMF supporting tools. I am using > > > > >> GraniteDS to push data to a Flex client. > > > > >> It is fairly simple to setup so you can perform trsting and find the > > > > >> limitations which would impact your game. > > > > > >> Tim > > > > > >> Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone > > > > > >> - Reply message - > > > > >> From: "Jeff Schnitzer" > > > > >> Date: Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:50 AM > > > > >> Subject: [appengine-java] Flash arcade game GAE based > > > > >> To: > > > > > >> It would be extraordinarily difficult to use Appengine for this sort > > > > >> of project. You probably want a server framework that supports > > > > >> persistent connections and in-memory state that won't disappear when > > > > >> a > > > > >> memcache server is flushed. > > > > > >> Here's a good starting point: > > > > >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_game_engines > > > > > >> Jeff > > > > > >> On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 11:58 PM, Ahmed Khalifa > > > > >> > > > > >> wrote: > > > > >> > hi all, > > > > >> > I am writing a multiplayer flash arcade game in actionscript .. i > > > > >> > have > > > > >> > discovered GAE recently and thought that it might be a very good > > > > >> > choice for building and hosting my server .. > > > > >> > however, i realize that arcade games need an almost realtime > > > > >> > responsive capacity from the server .. besides the server has to be > > > > >> > looping on receiving position object of Client A, storing it in a > > > > >> > DB, > > > > >> > Fetching Client B position object and sending it back .. this will > > > > >> > result in a huge number of DB requests either storing, fetching or > > > > >> > deleting which will quickly exhaust the CPU quota for the > > > > >> > application .. > > > > > >> > So, I was wondering if any one had an idea or a reference to come > > > > >> > around these two problems of real time response and CPU exhaustion > > > > >> > by > > > > >> > DB calls > > > > > >> > best regards, > > > > >> > A. Khalifa > > > > > >> > -- > > > > >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > > > >> Groups "Google App Engine for Java" group. > > > > >> > To post to this group, send email to > > > > >> google-appengine-j...@googlegroups.com. > > > > >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > >> google-appengine-java+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > > > >> unsubscr...@googlegroups.com> > > > > . > > > > >> > For more options, visit this group > > > > >> athttp://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine-java?hl=en. > > > > > >> -- > > > > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > > > >> Groups "Google App Engine for Java" group. > > > > >> To post to this group, send email to > > > > >> google-appengine-j...@googlegroups.com. > > > > >> To unsubsc
[appengine-java] Re: Flash arcade game GAE based
thanks a lot .. however, i am still doubtful about the source of latency .. is it GAE itself not supporting a certain feature that allows real-time response or it is something that i lacked .. thanks in advance .. On Mar 4, 3:27 pm, Toby wrote: > Hi Ahmed, > > take a look at GraniteDS. It is a bit like blazeds with the ability to > push and syncronize data between multiple clients. It uses a very > efficient serialization and it runs on > GAE:http://graniteds.blogspot.com/2009/04/graniteds-20-on-google-app-engi... > on server side you just need to make sure that the datastore updates > do not block your clients. I would suggest using memcache and to add > datastore updates to the task queue. > So when you receive a data change from a client you update the > memcache value, you propagate the change to all clients and you put on > the task queue a request for the data to be saved. This will be done > asynchronously. > > Cheers, > Toby > > On Mar 3, 5:47 am, nicolas melendez wrote: > > > I want to do the same. Is there any good XMPP Java framework to include in > > my Applet? recomendations? > > Thanks > > NM > > > On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 11:31 PM, wrote: > > > Kaz, > > > Not sure about the CPU (we are still at the proof of concept stage for > > > using GAE). We are using the polling aspect since our business > > > requires updates with 5-15 minutes. Its not very time intensive like a > > > game would be. > > > > Good luck, > > > > Tim > > > > > Tim, > > > > > But isn't it so expensive to use the AMF/HTTP comet technique on the > > > > appengine? CPU usage can be extremely high. Or you have to use AMF/ > > > > HTTP polling which is not so responsive for gaming. > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Kaz > > > > > On Mar 2, 7:43 pm, "tsp...@green20now.com" > > > > wrote: > > > >> Take a look at GraniteDS or other AMF supporting tools. I am using > > > >> GraniteDS to push data to a Flex client. > > > >> It is fairly simple to setup so you can perform trsting and find the > > > >> limitations which would impact your game. > > > > >> Tim > > > > >> Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone > > > > >> - Reply message - > > > >> From: "Jeff Schnitzer" > > > >> Date: Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:50 AM > > > >> Subject: [appengine-java] Flash arcade game GAE based > > > >> To: > > > > >> It would be extraordinarily difficult to use Appengine for this sort > > > >> of project. You probably want a server framework that supports > > > >> persistent connections and in-memory state that won't disappear when a > > > >> memcache server is flushed. > > > > >> Here's a good starting point: > > > >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_game_engines > > > > >> Jeff > > > > >> On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 11:58 PM, Ahmed Khalifa > > > >> wrote: > > > >> > hi all, > > > >> > I am writing a multiplayer flash arcade game in actionscript .. i > > > >> > have > > > >> > discovered GAE recently and thought that it might be a very good > > > >> > choice for building and hosting my server .. > > > >> > however, i realize that arcade games need an almost realtime > > > >> > responsive capacity from the server .. besides the server has to be > > > >> > looping on receiving position object of Client A, storing it in a DB, > > > >> > Fetching Client B position object and sending it back .. this will > > > >> > result in a huge number of DB requests either storing, fetching or > > > >> > deleting which will quickly exhaust the CPU quota for the > > > >> > application .. > > > > >> > So, I was wondering if any one had an idea or a reference to come > > > >> > around these two problems of real time response and CPU exhaustion by > > > >> > DB calls > > > > >> > best regards, > > > >> > A. Khalifa > > > > >> > -- > > > >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > > >> Groups "Google App Engine for Java" group. > > > >> > To post to this group, send email to > > > >> google-appengine-j...@googlegroups.com. > > > >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > >> google-appengine-java+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > > > . > > > >> > For more options, visit this group > > > >> athttp://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine-java?hl=en. > > > > >> -- > > > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > > >> Groups "Google App Engine for Java" group. > > > >> To post to this group, send email to > > > >> google-appengine-j...@googlegroups.com. > > > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > >> google-appengine-java+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > > > . > > > >> For more options, visit this group > > > >> athttp://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine-java?hl=en. > > > > > -- > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > > > Groups > > > > "Google App Engine for Java" group. > > > > To post to this group, send email to > > > > google-appengine-j...@googlegroups.com. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > google-appengine-
[appengine-java] Re: Flash arcade game GAE based
Hi Ahmed, take a look at GraniteDS. It is a bit like blazeds with the ability to push and syncronize data between multiple clients. It uses a very efficient serialization and it runs on GAE: http://graniteds.blogspot.com/2009/04/graniteds-20-on-google-app-engine.html on server side you just need to make sure that the datastore updates do not block your clients. I would suggest using memcache and to add datastore updates to the task queue. So when you receive a data change from a client you update the memcache value, you propagate the change to all clients and you put on the task queue a request for the data to be saved. This will be done asynchronously. Cheers, Toby On Mar 3, 5:47 am, nicolas melendez wrote: > I want to do the same. Is there any good XMPP Java framework to include in > my Applet? recomendations? > Thanks > NM > > On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 11:31 PM, wrote: > > Kaz, > > Not sure about the CPU (we are still at the proof of concept stage for > > using GAE). We are using the polling aspect since our business > > requires updates with 5-15 minutes. Its not very time intensive like a > > game would be. > > > Good luck, > > > Tim > > > > Tim, > > > > But isn't it so expensive to use the AMF/HTTP comet technique on the > > > appengine? CPU usage can be extremely high. Or you have to use AMF/ > > > HTTP polling which is not so responsive for gaming. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Kaz > > > > On Mar 2, 7:43 pm, "tsp...@green20now.com" > > > wrote: > > >> Take a look at GraniteDS or other AMF supporting tools. I am using > > >> GraniteDS to push data to a Flex client. > > >> It is fairly simple to setup so you can perform trsting and find the > > >> limitations which would impact your game. > > > >> Tim > > > >> Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone > > > >> - Reply message - > > >> From: "Jeff Schnitzer" > > >> Date: Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:50 AM > > >> Subject: [appengine-java] Flash arcade game GAE based > > >> To: > > > >> It would be extraordinarily difficult to use Appengine for this sort > > >> of project. You probably want a server framework that supports > > >> persistent connections and in-memory state that won't disappear when a > > >> memcache server is flushed. > > > >> Here's a good starting point: > > >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_game_engines > > > >> Jeff > > > >> On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 11:58 PM, Ahmed Khalifa > > >> wrote: > > >> > hi all, > > >> > I am writing a multiplayer flash arcade game in actionscript .. i have > > >> > discovered GAE recently and thought that it might be a very good > > >> > choice for building and hosting my server .. > > >> > however, i realize that arcade games need an almost realtime > > >> > responsive capacity from the server .. besides the server has to be > > >> > looping on receiving position object of Client A, storing it in a DB, > > >> > Fetching Client B position object and sending it back .. this will > > >> > result in a huge number of DB requests either storing, fetching or > > >> > deleting which will quickly exhaust the CPU quota for the > > >> > application .. > > > >> > So, I was wondering if any one had an idea or a reference to come > > >> > around these two problems of real time response and CPU exhaustion by > > >> > DB calls > > > >> > best regards, > > >> > A. Khalifa > > > >> > -- > > >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > >> Groups "Google App Engine for Java" group. > > >> > To post to this group, send email to > > >> google-appengine-j...@googlegroups.com. > > >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > >> google-appengine-java+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > > . > > >> > For more options, visit this group > > >> athttp://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine-java?hl=en. > > > >> -- > > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > >> Groups "Google App Engine for Java" group. > > >> To post to this group, send email to > > >> google-appengine-j...@googlegroups.com. > > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > >> google-appengine-java+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > > . > > >> For more options, visit this group > > >> athttp://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine-java?hl=en. > > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > > "Google App Engine for Java" group. > > > To post to this group, send email to > > > google-appengine-j...@googlegroups.com. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > google-appengine-java+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > > . > > > For more options, visit this group at > > >http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine-java?hl=en. > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "Google App Engine for Java" group. > > To post to this group, send email to > > google-appengine-j...@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > google-appengine-java+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
Re: [appengine-java] Re: Flash arcade game GAE based
I want to do the same. Is there any good XMPP Java framework to include in my Applet? recomendations? Thanks NM On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 11:31 PM, wrote: > Kaz, >Not sure about the CPU (we are still at the proof of concept stage for > using GAE). We are using the polling aspect since our business > requires updates with 5-15 minutes. Its not very time intensive like a > game would be. > > Good luck, > > Tim > > > Tim, > > > > But isn't it so expensive to use the AMF/HTTP comet technique on the > > appengine? CPU usage can be extremely high. Or you have to use AMF/ > > HTTP polling which is not so responsive for gaming. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Kaz > > > > On Mar 2, 7:43 pm, "tsp...@green20now.com" > > wrote: > >> Take a look at GraniteDS or other AMF supporting tools. I am using > >> GraniteDS to push data to a Flex client. > >> It is fairly simple to setup so you can perform trsting and find the > >> limitations which would impact your game. > >> > >> Tim > >> > >> Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone > >> > >> - Reply message - > >> From: "Jeff Schnitzer" > >> Date: Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:50 AM > >> Subject: [appengine-java] Flash arcade game GAE based > >> To: > >> > >> It would be extraordinarily difficult to use Appengine for this sort > >> of project. You probably want a server framework that supports > >> persistent connections and in-memory state that won't disappear when a > >> memcache server is flushed. > >> > >> Here's a good starting point: > >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_game_engines > >> > >> Jeff > >> > >> > >> > >> On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 11:58 PM, Ahmed Khalifa > >> wrote: > >> > hi all, > >> > I am writing a multiplayer flash arcade game in actionscript .. i have > >> > discovered GAE recently and thought that it might be a very good > >> > choice for building and hosting my server .. > >> > however, i realize that arcade games need an almost realtime > >> > responsive capacity from the server .. besides the server has to be > >> > looping on receiving position object of Client A, storing it in a DB, > >> > Fetching Client B position object and sending it back .. this will > >> > result in a huge number of DB requests either storing, fetching or > >> > deleting which will quickly exhaust the CPU quota for the > >> > application .. > >> > >> > So, I was wondering if any one had an idea or a reference to come > >> > around these two problems of real time response and CPU exhaustion by > >> > DB calls > >> > >> > best regards, > >> > A. Khalifa > >> > >> > -- > >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >> Groups "Google App Engine for Java" group. > >> > To post to this group, send email to > >> google-appengine-j...@googlegroups.com. > >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> google-appengine-java+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > . > >> > For more options, visit this group > >> athttp://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine-java?hl=en. > >> > >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >> Groups "Google App Engine for Java" group. > >> To post to this group, send email to > >> google-appengine-j...@googlegroups.com. > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> google-appengine-java+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > . > >> For more options, visit this group > >> athttp://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine-java?hl=en. > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "Google App Engine for Java" group. > > To post to this group, send email to > > google-appengine-j...@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > google-appengine-java+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > . > > For more options, visit this group at > > http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine-java?hl=en. > > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Google App Engine for Java" group. > To post to this group, send email to > google-appengine-j...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > google-appengine-java+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine-java?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine for Java" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine-j...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine-java+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine-java?hl=en.
Re: [appengine-java] Re: Flash arcade game GAE based
Kaz, Not sure about the CPU (we are still at the proof of concept stage for using GAE). We are using the polling aspect since our business requires updates with 5-15 minutes. Its not very time intensive like a game would be. Good luck, Tim > Tim, > > But isn't it so expensive to use the AMF/HTTP comet technique on the > appengine? CPU usage can be extremely high. Or you have to use AMF/ > HTTP polling which is not so responsive for gaming. > > Thanks, > > Kaz > > On Mar 2, 7:43 pm, "tsp...@green20now.com" > wrote: >> Take a look at GraniteDS or other AMF supporting tools. I am using >> GraniteDS to push data to a Flex client. >> It is fairly simple to setup so you can perform trsting and find the >> limitations which would impact your game. >> >> Tim >> >> Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone >> >> - Reply message - >> From: "Jeff Schnitzer" >> Date: Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:50 AM >> Subject: [appengine-java] Flash arcade game GAE based >> To: >> >> It would be extraordinarily difficult to use Appengine for this sort >> of project. You probably want a server framework that supports >> persistent connections and in-memory state that won't disappear when a >> memcache server is flushed. >> >> Here's a good starting point: >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_game_engines >> >> Jeff >> >> >> >> On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 11:58 PM, Ahmed Khalifa >> wrote: >> > hi all, >> > I am writing a multiplayer flash arcade game in actionscript .. i have >> > discovered GAE recently and thought that it might be a very good >> > choice for building and hosting my server .. >> > however, i realize that arcade games need an almost realtime >> > responsive capacity from the server .. besides the server has to be >> > looping on receiving position object of Client A, storing it in a DB, >> > Fetching Client B position object and sending it back .. this will >> > result in a huge number of DB requests either storing, fetching or >> > deleting which will quickly exhaust the CPU quota for the >> > application .. >> >> > So, I was wondering if any one had an idea or a reference to come >> > around these two problems of real time response and CPU exhaustion by >> > DB calls >> >> > best regards, >> > A. Khalifa >> >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "Google App Engine for Java" group. >> > To post to this group, send email to >> google-appengine-j...@googlegroups.com. >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> google-appengine-java+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> > For more options, visit this group >> athttp://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine-java?hl=en. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "Google App Engine for Java" group. >> To post to this group, send email to >> google-appengine-j...@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> google-appengine-java+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group >> athttp://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine-java?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Google App Engine for Java" group. > To post to this group, send email to > google-appengine-j...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > google-appengine-java+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine-java?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine for Java" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine-j...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine-java+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine-java?hl=en.
[appengine-java] Re: Flash arcade game GAE based
FYI, I always use another messaging server along with appengine, on EC2 or something, which runs a socket relay server or Tornado (Python based long polling server). And I think WebSockets is the way to go for us in future ultimately :) Thanks, Kaz On Mar 3, 7:51 am, kazunori_279 wrote: > Tim, > > But isn't it so expensive to use the AMF/HTTP comet technique on the > appengine? CPU usage can be extremely high. Or you have to use AMF/ > HTTP polling which is not so responsive for gaming. > > Thanks, > > Kaz > > On Mar 2, 7:43 pm, "tsp...@green20now.com" > wrote: > > > Take a look at GraniteDS or other AMF supporting tools. I am using > > GraniteDS to push data to a Flex client. > > It is fairly simple to setup so you can perform trsting and find the > > limitations which would impact your game. > > > Tim > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone > > > - Reply message - > > From: "Jeff Schnitzer" > > Date: Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:50 AM > > Subject: [appengine-java] Flash arcade game GAE based > > To: > > > It would be extraordinarily difficult to use Appengine for this sort > > of project. You probably want a server framework that supports > > persistent connections and in-memory state that won't disappear when a > > memcache server is flushed. > > > Here's a good starting point: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_game_engines > > > Jeff > > > On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 11:58 PM, Ahmed Khalifa > > wrote: > > > hi all, > > > I am writing a multiplayer flash arcade game in actionscript .. i have > > > discovered GAE recently and thought that it might be a very good > > > choice for building and hosting my server .. > > > however, i realize that arcade games need an almost realtime > > > responsive capacity from the server .. besides the server has to be > > > looping on receiving position object of Client A, storing it in a DB, > > > Fetching Client B position object and sending it back .. this will > > > result in a huge number of DB requests either storing, fetching or > > > deleting which will quickly exhaust the CPU quota for the > > > application .. > > > > So, I was wondering if any one had an idea or a reference to come > > > around these two problems of real time response and CPU exhaustion by > > > DB calls > > > > best regards, > > > A. Khalifa > > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > > "Google App Engine for Java" group. > > > To post to this group, send email to > > > google-appengine-j...@googlegroups.com. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > google-appengine-java+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > > For more options, visit this group > > > athttp://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine-java?hl=en. > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "Google App Engine for Java" group. > > To post to this group, send email to google-appengine-j...@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > google-appengine-java+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit this group > > athttp://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine-java?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine for Java" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine-j...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine-java+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine-java?hl=en.
[appengine-java] Re: Flash arcade game GAE based
Tim, But isn't it so expensive to use the AMF/HTTP comet technique on the appengine? CPU usage can be extremely high. Or you have to use AMF/ HTTP polling which is not so responsive for gaming. Thanks, Kaz On Mar 2, 7:43 pm, "tsp...@green20now.com" wrote: > Take a look at GraniteDS or other AMF supporting tools. I am using GraniteDS > to push data to a Flex client. > It is fairly simple to setup so you can perform trsting and find the > limitations which would impact your game. > > Tim > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone > > - Reply message - > From: "Jeff Schnitzer" > Date: Tue, Mar 2, 2010 3:50 AM > Subject: [appengine-java] Flash arcade game GAE based > To: > > It would be extraordinarily difficult to use Appengine for this sort > of project. You probably want a server framework that supports > persistent connections and in-memory state that won't disappear when a > memcache server is flushed. > > Here's a good starting point: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_game_engines > > Jeff > > > > On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 11:58 PM, Ahmed Khalifa wrote: > > hi all, > > I am writing a multiplayer flash arcade game in actionscript .. i have > > discovered GAE recently and thought that it might be a very good > > choice for building and hosting my server .. > > however, i realize that arcade games need an almost realtime > > responsive capacity from the server .. besides the server has to be > > looping on receiving position object of Client A, storing it in a DB, > > Fetching Client B position object and sending it back .. this will > > result in a huge number of DB requests either storing, fetching or > > deleting which will quickly exhaust the CPU quota for the > > application .. > > > So, I was wondering if any one had an idea or a reference to come > > around these two problems of real time response and CPU exhaustion by > > DB calls > > > best regards, > > A. Khalifa > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "Google App Engine for Java" group. > > To post to this group, send email to google-appengine-j...@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > google-appengine-java+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit this group > > athttp://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine-java?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Google App Engine for Java" group. > To post to this group, send email to google-appengine-j...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > google-appengine-java+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group > athttp://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine-java?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine for Java" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine-j...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine-java+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine-java?hl=en.
Re: [appengine-java] Re: Flash arcade game GAE based
Since you're using Flash, you won't need to use long polling. XMPP seems like the way to go here. On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 1:08 AM, Miguel wrote: > You can use Memcache: > > > http://code.google.com/intl/en/appengine/docs/java/memcache/usingjcache.html > > > On 28 feb, 08:58, Ahmed Khalifa wrote: > > hi all, > > I am writing a multiplayer flash arcade game in actionscript .. i have > > discovered GAE recently and thought that it might be a very good > > choice for building and hosting my server .. > > however, i realize that arcade games need an almost realtime > > responsive capacity from the server .. besides the server has to be > > looping on receiving position object of Client A, storing it in a DB, > > Fetching Client B position object and sending it back .. this will > > result in a huge number of DB requests either storing, fetching or > > deleting which will quickly exhaust the CPU quota for the > > application .. > > > > So, I was wondering if any one had an idea or a reference to come > > around these two problems of real time response and CPU exhaustion by > > DB calls > > > > best regards, > > A. Khalifa > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Google App Engine for Java" group. > To post to this group, send email to > google-appengine-j...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > google-appengine-java+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine-java?hl=en. > > -- Ikai Lan Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine http://googleappengine.blogspot.com | http://twitter.com/app_engine -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine for Java" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine-j...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine-java+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine-java?hl=en.
[appengine-java] Re: Flash arcade game GAE based
You can use Memcache: http://code.google.com/intl/en/appengine/docs/java/memcache/usingjcache.html On 28 feb, 08:58, Ahmed Khalifa wrote: > hi all, > I am writing a multiplayer flash arcade game in actionscript .. i have > discovered GAE recently and thought that it might be a very good > choice for building and hosting my server .. > however, i realize that arcade games need an almost realtime > responsive capacity from the server .. besides the server has to be > looping on receiving position object of Client A, storing it in a DB, > Fetching Client B position object and sending it back .. this will > result in a huge number of DB requests either storing, fetching or > deleting which will quickly exhaust the CPU quota for the > application .. > > So, I was wondering if any one had an idea or a reference to come > around these two problems of real time response and CPU exhaustion by > DB calls > > best regards, > A. Khalifa -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine for Java" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine-j...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine-java+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine-java?hl=en.
[appengine-java] Re: Flash arcade game GAE based
thanks for the reply .. are there any other servers/hosts that provide a near real time client/ server communication?? Plus, i don't exactly get your part about the long polling and 30 simultanous requests limit .. can you elaborate more regards, On Mar 1, 4:55 pm, A1programmer wrote: > You can use memcache to help speed up access to the DB. > > All communication over GAE has to be done using HTTP... So, that makes > it harder to things like pushing real time messages to the clients. > You can use a technique called "Long Polling", but requests must > return in 30 seconds, and currently, applications have a max of 30 > simultaneous requests. > > Basically, the request starts a thread that sleeps most of the time, > waiting to return data to the client when it's ready. One the client > receives the update, it makes another long polling request. > > Hope this helps. > > - Derrick > > On Feb 28, 2:58 am, Ahmed Khalifa wrote: > > > hi all, > > I am writing a multiplayer flash arcade game in actionscript .. i have > > discovered GAE recently and thought that it might be a very good > > choice for building and hosting my server .. > > however, i realize that arcade games need an almost realtime > > responsive capacity from the server .. besides the server has to be > > looping on receiving position object of Client A, storing it in a DB, > > Fetching Client B position object and sending it back .. this will > > result in a huge number of DB requests either storing, fetching or > > deleting which will quickly exhaust the CPU quota for the > > application .. > > > So, I was wondering if any one had an idea or a reference to come > > around these two problems of real time response and CPU exhaustion by > > DB calls > > > best regards, > > A. Khalifa -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine for Java" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine-j...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine-java+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine-java?hl=en.
[appengine-java] Re: Flash arcade game GAE based
You can use memcache to help speed up access to the DB. All communication over GAE has to be done using HTTP... So, that makes it harder to things like pushing real time messages to the clients. You can use a technique called "Long Polling", but requests must return in 30 seconds, and currently, applications have a max of 30 simultaneous requests. Basically, the request starts a thread that sleeps most of the time, waiting to return data to the client when it's ready. One the client receives the update, it makes another long polling request. Hope this helps. - Derrick On Feb 28, 2:58 am, Ahmed Khalifa wrote: > hi all, > I am writing a multiplayer flash arcade game in actionscript .. i have > discovered GAE recently and thought that it might be a very good > choice for building and hosting my server .. > however, i realize that arcade games need an almost realtime > responsive capacity from the server .. besides the server has to be > looping on receiving position object of Client A, storing it in a DB, > Fetching Client B position object and sending it back .. this will > result in a huge number of DB requests either storing, fetching or > deleting which will quickly exhaust the CPU quota for the > application .. > > So, I was wondering if any one had an idea or a reference to come > around these two problems of real time response and CPU exhaustion by > DB calls > > best regards, > A. Khalifa -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google App Engine for Java" group. To post to this group, send email to google-appengine-j...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-appengine-java+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine-java?hl=en.
