Re: [H] October 25, 2025

[James Boswell]

With regards to Linux gaming, I'll tell you hwhat, I've got a Steamdeck,
the (Linux based) SteamOS they use runs Windows binaries through the Proton
translation shim and it's pretty astonishing how well it works a lot of the
time.

The caveat is that there are some things that it just _won't_ run, often
falling foul of anti-cheat measures (Destiny 2 is a big casualty there)

-JB

On Sun, 30 Apr 2023 at 23:21, FORC5  wrote:

>
> agree, mine (not that old) failed the tmp
> test until Asus came out with a bios update
> that fixes whatever tpm checks for.
>
> if MS follows tradition 11 will be a bad OS
> and 12 will be better. always Ubunto, if it
> would get in line for gaming.
>
> fp
>
> On 4/30/2023 1:13 PM, _ Winterlight wrote:
> > I am curious what others think about the October 25, 2025 end of life
> for Windows 10.  The usual process is to update to Windows 11 however, in
> the vast majority of cases that won't be possible. Without the special chip
> on board you can't run windows 11 so I guess they expect you to throw you
> old laptop or desktop away and get a new one. I have a number of laptops
> and a  couple of desktops that all are used for different jobs so I guess
> in 2 and a half years I will have to throw them away start over even if
> they are running perfectly fine.  If we spiral down into a recession I find
> it hard to believe that corporations and even government ancencies will be
> happy about filling recycle centers with obsolete computers at a scale we
> have never seen before
> >
> > What does the collective think about this?
> >
> > 
>

Re: [H] P9X79_WS with i7-4930K has failed me

[James Boswell]

That collection of parts will haul ass in the best way.

On Tue, 5 Dec 2023 at 13:14, Brian Weeden  wrote:

> Great to hear from you all :)
>
> I am also (finally) in the market for a new build, although it’s only been
> 5 years for me since I put together an Intel 8700k build and not 10 like OP
> :)
>
> I was looking for a new build that will last another 5 years (hopefully)
> and given that Intel has said the current LGA 1700 is only going to support
> one more generation I am also going with AMD for the first time ever. Part
> list:
> https://pcpartpicker.com/list/rs4YmD
>
> Not included are the case (Cooler Master Silencio) and video card (Nvidia
> 3070Ti) that I will be carrying over from my current build.
>
> This new build not only uses the AM5 socket, which AMD claims it will
> support for at least two more gens, but the X670 chipset that supports PCI
> 5.0 for both expansion cards and NVME sockets. That means it will hopefully
> support a couple more generations of new video cards as well as the next
> gen of SSDs:
> https://www.pcworld.com/article/1676119/pcie-5-ssd-5-reasons-upgrade.html
>
> BTW, if you guys haven't discovered it yet, there's a pretty great
> community of PC builder enthusiasts over at
> https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/
>
> On Tue, Dec 5, 2023 at 2:27 AM James Boswell  wrote:
>
> > 7800X3D?
> >
> > Although I think you've just brain hiccupped? Q6600 is a Core 2 Quad and
> > Z87-A would take Haswell generation parts like a 4570K or 4790K
> >
> > On Tue, 5 Dec 2023 at 04:23, Joshua MacCraw  wrote:
> >
> > > Whoa, activity! Hello all!
> > >
> > > Just recently finally put my aging Asus Z87-A /w Q6600 + R9 280 out to
> > > pasture in favor of a new AM5 build. Amazing 1440 gaming so far! =)
> > >
> > > On Mon, Dec 4, 2023 at 7:56 PM Greg Sevart  wrote:
> > >
> > > > Truthfully this is probably the most correct answer--while a fine
> > system
> > > > in its day, the P9X79 platform is easily eclipsed even with the most
> > > > budget-friendly builds today.
> > > >
> > > > That being said, I just went and found my old P9X79 WS board. It's
> > been a
> > > > few years since it's been in service, but you are welcome to it if
> you
> > > want
> > > > to try a replacement board.
> > > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: Hardware  On Behalf
> Of
> > > > lopaka polena
> > > > Sent: Monday, December 4, 2023 1:26 PM
> > > > To: hardw...@lists.hardwaregroup.com
> > > > Subject: Re: [H] P9X79_WS with i7-4930K has failed me
> > > >
> > > > I was wondering if anyone was still using the list. Hey Thane :)
> > > >
> > > > My recommendation would be all new everything and check your
> components
> > > > once you have a running system. New cpu/mobo at least. If you know
> > > anybody
> > > > with spare parts you could try to figure out what is still working
> but
> > it
> > > > will take more time
> > > >
> > > > lopaka
> > > >
> > > > <
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail
> > > > >
> > > > Virus-free.www.avast.com
> > > > <
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail
> > > > >
> > > > <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Dec 4, 2023 at 3:15 AM Thane K. Sherrington <
> > > > th...@computerconnectionltd.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > You are showing your age.  They are DIMMS now. :)
> > > > >
> > > > > I'd try a single DIMM in each socket.  Does this motherboard have a
> > > > > RAM config button (some do).  If so, try that.
> > > > >
> > > > > Have you tried a different power supply?  I've had power supplies
> > > > > which will power up the motherboard but not allow it to boot.
> > > > >
> > > > > T
> > > > >
> > > > > On 03-Dec-2023 3:54 p.m., _ Winterlight wrote:
> > > > > > After 10 years my E6896_P9X79_WS with i7-4930K has failed me.
>  My
> > > > > original setup was running fine but one day it wouldn’t boot and
> the
> > > > > board reported a CPU error. I cleaned the dust 

Re: [H] P9X79_WS with i7-4930K has failed me

[James Boswell]

7800X3D?

Although I think you've just brain hiccupped? Q6600 is a Core 2 Quad and
Z87-A would take Haswell generation parts like a 4570K or 4790K

On Tue, 5 Dec 2023 at 04:23, Joshua MacCraw  wrote:

> Whoa, activity! Hello all!
>
> Just recently finally put my aging Asus Z87-A /w Q6600 + R9 280 out to
> pasture in favor of a new AM5 build. Amazing 1440 gaming so far! =)
>
> On Mon, Dec 4, 2023 at 7:56 PM Greg Sevart  wrote:
>
> > Truthfully this is probably the most correct answer--while a fine system
> > in its day, the P9X79 platform is easily eclipsed even with the most
> > budget-friendly builds today.
> >
> > That being said, I just went and found my old P9X79 WS board. It's been a
> > few years since it's been in service, but you are welcome to it if you
> want
> > to try a replacement board.
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Hardware  On Behalf Of
> > lopaka polena
> > Sent: Monday, December 4, 2023 1:26 PM
> > To: hardw...@lists.hardwaregroup.com
> > Subject: Re: [H] P9X79_WS with i7-4930K has failed me
> >
> > I was wondering if anyone was still using the list. Hey Thane :)
> >
> > My recommendation would be all new everything and check your components
> > once you have a running system. New cpu/mobo at least. If you know
> anybody
> > with spare parts you could try to figure out what is still working but it
> > will take more time
> >
> > lopaka
> >
> > <
> >
> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail
> > >
> > Virus-free.www.avast.com
> > <
> >
> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail
> > >
> > <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 4, 2023 at 3:15 AM Thane K. Sherrington <
> > th...@computerconnectionltd.com> wrote:
> >
> > > You are showing your age.  They are DIMMS now. :)
> > >
> > > I'd try a single DIMM in each socket.  Does this motherboard have a
> > > RAM config button (some do).  If so, try that.
> > >
> > > Have you tried a different power supply?  I've had power supplies
> > > which will power up the motherboard but not allow it to boot.
> > >
> > > T
> > >
> > > On 03-Dec-2023 3:54 p.m., _ Winterlight wrote:
> > > > After 10 years my E6896_P9X79_WS with i7-4930K has failed me.   My
> > > original setup was running fine but one day it wouldn’t boot and the
> > > board reported a CPU error. I cleaned the dust off the board and did a
> > > major cleaning of the CPU fan and heat sink and it seemed to run just
> > > fine. I had a couple extra RAM SIMMS so I decided to install them.
> > > What I had installed was 4 CRUCIAL DDR 3 4GB SIMM running at 1866.
> > > What I added into bank two was two 8GB CRUCIAL DDR3 running at 1600.
> > > It didn’t seem to recognize all the RAM so I went into the BIOS to try
> > > different settings. I enabled Auto Memory frequency settings saved and
> > > exited out. This is when my troubles began.
> > > >
> > > > The PC hung at post. I saw nothing on the screen just a black screen.
> > > At first I thought something must of got corrupt so I tried auto
> > > flashing the BIOS but it wasn’t working normally so I tried clearing
> > > the bios with the on board pin, and finally I pulled everything off
> > > the board, removed it from the case and let it sit in it’s box for a
> > > month. Then I cleaned everything and put it back together but same
> > problem.
> > > >
> > > > It occurred to me that maybe the CPU burned out when the fan slowed
> > > > down
> > > and then my memory bios adjustment finished it off. So I purchased a
> > > used but tested CPU on Ebay and tried again. Same issue. I hate to
> > > just throw this board away but I am out of ideas. Anybody have any
> > > ideas to jump start the board? Thanks 
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>

Re: [H] P9X79_WS with i7-4930K has failed me

[James Boswell]

I'm still here.

On Tue, 5 Dec 2023 at 00:20, Christopher Fisk 
wrote:

> Should we do a sound off? lol
>
> On Mon, Dec 4, 2023 at 2:26 PM lopaka polena  wrote:
>
> > I was wondering if anyone was still using the list. Hey Thane :)
> >
> > My recommendation would be all new everything and check your components
> > once you have a running system. New cpu/mobo at least. If you know
> anybody
> > with spare parts you could try to figure out what is still working but it
> > will take more time
> >
> > lopaka
> >
> > <
> >
> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail
> > >
> > Virus-free.www.avast.com
> > <
> >
> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail
> > >
> > <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 4, 2023 at 3:15 AM Thane K. Sherrington <
> > th...@computerconnectionltd.com> wrote:
> >
> > > You are showing your age.  They are DIMMS now. :)
> > >
> > > I'd try a single DIMM in each socket.  Does this motherboard have a RAM
> > > config button (some do).  If so, try that.
> > >
> > > Have you tried a different power supply?  I've had power supplies which
> > > will power up the motherboard but not allow it to boot.
> > >
> > > T
> > >
> > > On 03-Dec-2023 3:54 p.m., _ Winterlight wrote:
> > > > After 10 years my E6896_P9X79_WS with i7-4930K has failed me.   My
> > > original setup was running fine but one day it wouldn’t boot and the
> > board
> > > reported a CPU error. I cleaned the dust off the board and did a major
> > > cleaning of the CPU fan and heat sink and it seemed to run just fine. I
> > had
> > > a couple extra RAM SIMMS so I decided to install them. What I had
> > installed
> > > was 4 CRUCIAL DDR 3 4GB SIMM running at 1866. What I added into bank
> two
> > > was two 8GB CRUCIAL DDR3 running at 1600. It didn’t seem to recognize
> all
> > > the RAM so I went into the BIOS to try different settings. I enabled
> Auto
> > > Memory frequency settings saved and exited out. This is when my
> troubles
> > > began.
> > > >
> > > > The PC hung at post. I saw nothing on the screen just a black screen.
> > > At first I thought something must of got corrupt so I tried auto
> flashing
> > > the BIOS but it wasn’t working normally so I tried clearing the bios
> with
> > > the on board pin, and finally I pulled everything off the board,
> removed
> > it
> > > from the case and let it sit in it’s box for a month. Then I cleaned
> > > everything and put it back together but same problem.
> > > >
> > > > It occurred to me that maybe the CPU burned out when the fan slowed
> > down
> > > and then my memory bios adjustment finished it off. So I purchased a
> used
> > > but tested CPU on Ebay and tried again. Same issue. I hate to just
> throw
> > > this board away but I am out of ideas. Anybody have any ideas to jump
> > start
> > > the board? Thanks 
> > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: [H] Windows 11

[James Boswell]

No, the requirements are TPM and secure boot _capable_, it doesn't require
secure boot to be on nor does it enforce bitlocker.

(Running Win11 Pro on an assortment of Ryzen's over here)

On Mon, 7 Aug 2023 at 19:31, FORC5  wrote:

>
> does not 11 force Bitlocker ?
>
> fp
>
> On 8/7/2023 9:02 AM, gm...@att.net wrote:
> > You have a problem and it's not W11. I have 3 computers running W11 over
> year with absolutely no problem.
> > I also helped install it on 10 more computers on family machines also
> with no problems.
> > W11 runs fine.
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Hardware  On Behalf Of
> Thane K. Sherrington
> > Sent: Monday, August 7, 2023 8:55 AM
> > To: hardw...@lists.hardwaregroup.com
> > Subject: Re: [H] Windows 11
> >
> > In my experience, W11 is flakier than 10, and a bit slower.  When it
> > goes wonky (gets trapped in a boot loop for instance, or a repeated
> > explorer.exe crash) there doesn't appear to be a way to fix it other
> > than a fresh install.  I'd avoid it unless you really need it.
> >
> > T
> >
> > On 06-Aug-2023 3:30 p.m., _ Winterlight wrote:
> >> Those of you who are using or dealing with Windows 11..I am talking to
> you Greg and Chris ...what do you think of it.   I can see myself updating
> my Win10 NUC by the end of the year...which I use with my TV...as a way to
> ease into this. So any reviews, hints and or warnings appreciated!
> >> 
>

Re: [H] Installing Win 2000 on old laptop

[James Boswell]

I'd be surprised if Windows 2000 can be persuaded to run smoothly on
hardware that wasn't released until _after_ Win2k left mainstream support
(SP4 was 2005, Core 2 Duo was 2006)

Is there any particular reason you're not throwing XP at the machine?

-JB

On Thu, 1 Jun 2023 at 04:01, _ Winterlight  wrote:

> I want to use an old ACER_Aspire AS6930 to install Win 2000 ProSP2  and
> Talkworks Pro 3.0 to create a phone and message center
>
> Intel Core 2 Duo T6400 2.0G
> 4 GB DDR2
> DVD Super Multi
> Intel GMA 4500MHD
>
> I installed a OCS 30GB SSD with a primary partition marked activethe
> BIOS sees the drive. The laptop has a serial port and I have the right
> voice external modem.
>
> I then created an install CD
>
> However when I boot off it Windows setup blue screen comes on loads a
> number of files and then hangs at a black screen with no message.
> I have tried various ways of doing this but it ends up the same. Do you
> think this can be done?
>

Re: [H] New gaming PC specs/recommendation for Bino?

[James Boswell]

Hard disagree on userbenchmark, their score weighting has a pro-intel bias
that's basically legendary to the point that they cannot be taken remotely
seriously.

On Mon, 29 Nov 2021 at 22:56, Brian Weeden  wrote:

> I would wait if at all possible. Part of the reason your cost estimate is
> going so high is that good video cards are still scarce as heck (combo of
> mining, chip shortages, supply chain snafus, and just overall huge demand).
>
> It might actually be cheaper to buy a pre-made system than trying to find a
> separate video card yourself.
>
> But as always, this is a great site for comparing various specs:
> https://www.userbenchmark.com
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 29, 2021 at 5:39 PM Greg Sevart  wrote:
>
> > Re: #2 - Yes, Alder Lake (12th gen) is definitely worth $200 more. I'm
> > even going to be upgrading from my Zen3 5950X to a 12900K. However, the
> > hybrid architecture is tripping up DRM for some games, so validate your
> > titles before executing. You can probably assume anything newish either
> > will work OOB or will be patched though.
> >
> > AMD is also going to be adopting a hybrid architecture with Zen 5.
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Hardware  On Behalf Of
> > Bino Gopal
> > Sent: Monday, November 29, 2021 4:22 PM
> > To: hardw...@lists.hardwaregroup.com
> > Subject: [H] New gaming PC specs/recommendation for Bino?
> >
> > Hey guys, hope you all had a good Thanksgiving!
> >
> > I wanted to get a new desktop gaming PC-I decided to split the laptop and
> > gaming, so I got an LG Gram 17" laptop for work/mobility (still need the
> > screen size and resolution for emails and browsing-but I love how light
> it
> > is!) so now I want to build a decent gaming system that will last me a
> > while...
> >
> > I wanted to spend like $2500 but the specs I'm coming up with for what
> > seem like I decent system are coming out to more like $4k and I'm
> wondering
> > if I really need to spend that much...
> >
> > I used xoticpc.com 4 years ago to buy my MSI GS73VR gaming laptop (that
> > is still going strong and it's what I'm writing this email on-well, after
> > lots of repairs at the local MSI repair shop, heh) and I spent about $3k
> on
> > it in March 2017, and that was the last computer I'd bought until I got
> the
> > Gram for $900 last month at Costco, so it's served me well.
> >
> > So here's the configs I came up with with the guy at xoticpc
> >
> > 12th gen:
> >
> https://xoticpc.com/collections/gx18-torrent/products/xotic-gx18-torrent-z690-ddr5?conf=525726
> > 11th
> > <
> https://xoticpc.com/collections/gx18-torrent/products/xotic-gx18-torrent-z690-ddr5?conf=52572611th
> >
> > gen:
> >
> https://xoticpc.com/collections/gx18-torrent/products/xotic-gx18-torrent-z490-z590?conf=525722
> >
> > They're basically the same system, using this Fractal Torrent glass case
> > as the base:
> >
> https://www.newegg.com/black-fractal-design-torrent-atx-mid-tower/p/N82E16811352148
> >
> > which they call the GX18 Torrent model on the xoticpc site.  I upgraded
> > both systems with a GTX 3080, i7, MSI Carbon MBs, ASUS Thor 850W PS, 32GB
> > Corsair RAM in 2x16, a 1TB Samsung 980 Pro Gen 4 (no other SSDs/HDs),
> kept
> > the integrated sound, USB wireless dongle (no cost), upgraded the thermal
> > paste, kept the AIO cooling loop, and upgraded to Win 10 Pro 64-bit.
> >
> > The difference b/w the two configs is the newer gen chipset/MB, CPU and
> > faster RAM: Z690 vs Z590, 12th vs 11th gen Intel CPU, 5.2k vs 3.6k MHz
> > RAM-and $200 more for the 12th gen stuff...
> >
> >
> > So the main questions are:
> > 1)  Did I basically spec things out right for gaming and is this what
> > a new gaming system should cost about now given parts shortages and GPU
> > prices (damn, they're expensive!)?  Are there any major things any of you
> > would change/recommend?
> > 2)  If I stay with this config, is the extra $200 worth it to go from
> > 11th gen to 12th gen and the new MB and smaller CPU die size worth it for
> > future-proofing and upgrading?
> > 3)  Anything that I missed here?  Any recs on better parts?  Better
> > place to buy from?  I was going to get another MSI system but the tech
> > (Eric F, same guy I spoke to over 4 years ago, which is cool) said that
> MSI
> > generally uses the minimum spec parts and isn't as customizable and that
> > building with xoticpc you can select better stuff (like the ASUS Thor PS,
> > etc) so I went with the xoticpc custom build as I saw that to be the
> case...
> >
> >
> > Any thoughts/help/feedback much appreciated!  Cheers all!
> >
> > BINO
> >
> >
> >
> > --
>
>
> -
> Brian
>

Re: [H] New gaming PC specs/recommendation for Bino?

[James Boswell]

For Alder Lake you're probably going to want Windows 11 for the
asymmetric-aware scheduler?

On Mon, 29 Nov 2021 at 22:22, Bino Gopal  wrote:

> Hey guys, hope you all had a good Thanksgiving!
>
> I wanted to get a new desktop gaming PC-I decided to split the laptop and
> gaming, so I got an LG Gram 17" laptop for work/mobility (still need the
> screen size and resolution for emails and browsing-but I love how light it
> is!) so now I want to build a decent gaming system that will last me a
> while...
>
> I wanted to spend like $2500 but the specs I'm coming up with for what
> seem like I decent system are coming out to more like $4k and I'm wondering
> if I really need to spend that much...
>
> I used xoticpc.com 4 years ago to buy my MSI GS73VR gaming laptop (that
> is still going strong and it's what I'm writing this email on-well, after
> lots of repairs at the local MSI repair shop, heh) and I spent about $3k on
> it in March 2017, and that was the last computer I'd bought until I got the
> Gram for $900 last month at Costco, so it's served me well.
>
> So here's the configs I came up with with the guy at xoticpc
>
> 12th gen:
> https://xoticpc.com/collections/gx18-torrent/products/xotic-gx18-torrent-z690-ddr5?conf=525726
> 11th
> 
> gen:
> https://xoticpc.com/collections/gx18-torrent/products/xotic-gx18-torrent-z490-z590?conf=525722
>
> They're basically the same system, using this Fractal Torrent glass case
> as the base:
> https://www.newegg.com/black-fractal-design-torrent-atx-mid-tower/p/N82E16811352148
>
> which they call the GX18 Torrent model on the xoticpc site.  I upgraded
> both systems with a GTX 3080, i7, MSI Carbon MBs, ASUS Thor 850W PS, 32GB
> Corsair RAM in 2x16, a 1TB Samsung 980 Pro Gen 4 (no other SSDs/HDs), kept
> the integrated sound, USB wireless dongle (no cost), upgraded the thermal
> paste, kept the AIO cooling loop, and upgraded to Win 10 Pro 64-bit.
>
> The difference b/w the two configs is the newer gen chipset/MB, CPU and
> faster RAM: Z690 vs Z590, 12th vs 11th gen Intel CPU, 5.2k vs 3.6k MHz
> RAM-and $200 more for the 12th gen stuff...
>
>
> So the main questions are:
> 1)  Did I basically spec things out right for gaming and is this what
> a new gaming system should cost about now given parts shortages and GPU
> prices (damn, they're expensive!)?  Are there any major things any of you
> would change/recommend?
> 2)  If I stay with this config, is the extra $200 worth it to go from
> 11th gen to 12th gen and the new MB and smaller CPU die size worth it for
> future-proofing and upgrading?
> 3)  Anything that I missed here?  Any recs on better parts?  Better
> place to buy from?  I was going to get another MSI system but the tech
> (Eric F, same guy I spoke to over 4 years ago, which is cool) said that MSI
> generally uses the minimum spec parts and isn't as customizable and that
> building with xoticpc you can select better stuff (like the ASUS Thor PS,
> etc) so I went with the xoticpc custom build as I saw that to be the case...
>
>
> Any thoughts/help/feedback much appreciated!  Cheers all!
>
> BINO
>
>

Re: [H] Still alive?

[James Boswell]

Oh no, my condolences.

On Mon, 9 Aug 2021 at 22:40, DSinc  wrote:

> To all,
>
> I can't send just a singular message to youse guys [his Thunderbird says
> the following message is too large for his program to handle.] so I'm
> responding to a recent email.
>
> To let you know of the passing of Duncan 8/9/21 in the a.m.  He was in
> the hospital since Friday and had a massive heart attack this morning.
> The group is in Lopaka's capable hands and continued success is wished
> for the group.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Bonny Sinclair (Duncan's sister)
>
>
>
>
> On 8/9/2021 5:15 PM, Scott Sipe wrote:
> > What kind of AMD servers are you getting? I'd love to get an EPYC tower
> for
> > work. Our current small office server is a Dell PowerEdge Xeon from 2017.
> >
> > Scott
> >
> > On Sun, Aug 8, 2021 at 12:39 AM Greg Sevart  wrote:
> >
> >> My vote would be 5800X.
> >>
> >> I've got a 5600X, 5800X, and 5950X all in use. Zen 3 is a beast. I've
> got
> >> Intel Coffee Lake, Comet Lake, and Rocket Lake cores in use too (and of
> >> course older iterations of both AMD and Intel cores), but the machines I
> >> really care most about are running AMD cores right now. Even the latest
> >> bulk order of servers I placed at work are based on EPYC Zen 3 silicon.
> >>
> >> My general stance has always been "tie goes to Intel" - so this is
> pretty
> >> telling for me. Not since K8/Hammer have I been this far on the AMD
> side of
> >> the fence.
> >>
> >> Greg
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Hardware  On Behalf Of
> >> Steve Tomporowski
> >> Sent: Saturday, August 7, 2021 7:38 PM
> >> To: hardw...@lists.hardwaregroup.com
> >> Subject: Re: [H] Still alive?
> >>
> >> Still here.  Thinking finally of building a Ryzen system.  Which Ryzen
> >> processor is the sweet spot these days?  Building a new system is fine,
> but
> >> I don't know when I could ever afford a video card again.  Luckily I
> never
> >> sold my GTX 750.
> >>
> >> Steve
> >>
> >> On 8/7/2021 8:31 PM, Al A wrote:
> >>> Still Alive?
> >>>
> >>> al
> >>
>

Re: [H] Still alive?

[James Boswell]

It's actually 3rd Generation, Zen3 (generations have been Zen (1x00
series), Zen+ (2x00 series), Zen 2 (3000 series) and Zen 3 (5x00 series)
the naming schema has been a little of a mess. the mobile parts to begin
with were 1000 up on the desktop parts, (so mobile 2x00 is Zen, not Zen+),
they corrected that and brought it in line with the 5000 series
nomenclature.

Also Zen3's really haul ass.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ma1epsmwjcezrvk/5950x-2080Ti-64GB.PNG?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/v7lctvcs94yp05y/5GhzPBO-cinebenchfirstrun.PNG?dl=0

On Sun, 8 Aug 2021 at 14:37, Steve Tomporowski  wrote:

> Thanks, Greg.  I'm assuming that AMD is doing like Intel and this is a
> 5th generation Ryzen.  Looks like full circle again, I had all Athlon
> systems back when
>
> Thanks...Steve
>
> On 8/8/2021 12:39 AM, Greg Sevart wrote:
> > My vote would be 5800X.
> >
> > I've got a 5600X, 5800X, and 5950X all in use. Zen 3 is a beast. I've
> got Intel Coffee Lake, Comet Lake, and Rocket Lake cores in use too (and of
> course older iterations of both AMD and Intel cores), but the machines I
> really care most about are running AMD cores right now. Even the latest
> bulk order of servers I placed at work are based on EPYC Zen 3 silicon.
> >
> > My general stance has always been "tie goes to Intel" - so this is
> pretty telling for me. Not since K8/Hammer have I been this far on the AMD
> side of the fence.
> >
> > Greg
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Hardware  On Behalf Of
> Steve Tomporowski
> > Sent: Saturday, August 7, 2021 7:38 PM
> > To: hardw...@lists.hardwaregroup.com
> > Subject: Re: [H] Still alive?
> >
> > Still here.  Thinking finally of building a Ryzen system.  Which Ryzen
> processor is the sweet spot these days?  Building a new system is fine, but
> I don't know when I could ever afford a video card again.  Luckily I never
> sold my GTX 750.
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > On 8/7/2021 8:31 PM, Al A wrote:
> >> Still Alive?
> >>
> >> al
>

Re: [H] Still alive?

[James Boswell]

This was a triumph. :)

On Sun, 8 Aug 2021, 01:32 Al A,  wrote:

> Still Alive?
>
> al
>

Re: [H] Android what am I not getting

[James Boswell]

Background playback is a youtube red/premium/whatever they're calling it
these days feature.
:(

On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 at 03:34, _ Winterlight  wrote:

> I have a Android phone. I like to listen to news or Youtube videos while I
> work around the house. I wear headphones and put the phone in my pocket.
> Often when I move the pocket makes contact with the screen the video
> pauses, or turns off, or I load six different apps!  This can't be designed
> like this but I have googled and tried to figure out how I lock the screen
> without turning off what I am trying to listen to or work with. What am I
> missing? What am I doing wrong?  Thanks
> w
>

Re: [H] 2080 Ti

[James Boswell]

They're not insubstantially faster than the 2080 Super for one, there's
some halo product $$$ going on, and also the die the thing is built on is
ABSOLUTELY GIGANTIC, 775mm^2, can't be far off the maximum reticle size.
cost per unit won't be cheap on Nvidia's end.

However Ampere can't be especially far away at this point, so don't jump on
a Turing right now. :)

On Fri, 10 Jul 2020 at 16:46, FORC5  wrote:

> anyone have a clue why the 2080Ti cards are
> so much more $$$ then
> just a 2080 ULTRA (?)
>
> running a 1080Ti, happy I guess but with
> S much spare time ATM buying
> stuff seems to be my new hobby.
>
> just updated my box to a BeQuiet dark base
> 900, very heavy but nice case but then I
> bought the extra stuff to convert it to rev 2
> ( with the Qi charger) with no glass. not
> into RGB
>
> soon to be completely banana crazy.
>
> resistance is NOT futile
>
> fuf
>
>

Re: [H] cases ?

[James Boswell]

the BeQuiet dark base 900 is pretty damned nice, but almost all the
machines I've built for the past... decade actually, have been in Fractal
Design towers of some flavour.


On Mon, 15 Jun 2020 at 18:03, FORC5  wrote:

> Always been a Lian-li fan but the current
> generation does not impress me ( I still use
> ODD 5 1/4 drive bays) NO IDEA WHY !
>
> My 10 tear old B-25F broke some parts on the
> top panel not replaceable (fixed with epoxy
> but not happy)
>
> plus it is old and no support for AIO closed
> loop systems and ventilation could be batter
> , ordered a Be Quiet dark base 900 (no
> window, bling does not make it go faster plus
> my skills at wire management are lame) :)
>
> was just curious what the pack likes these
> days, as the wolf used to say, power is in
> the pack :-D
>
>
> fuf
>
>

Re: [H] AIO coolers

[James Boswell]

I had a waterblock split on a Coolit Domino and nope'd out of them ever
since, big Noctua aircoolers on everything for me.

On Mon, 1 Jun 2020 at 17:03, FORC5  wrote:

> was wondering the brands the pack has had the
> best luck with ?
>
> pondering corsair and asus
>
> bought a single fan NZXT to test on a shop
> system, currently having the make some
> special screws to mount it. case not designed
> for water cooling
>
> too much spare time ATM :{)
>
> fuf
>
>

Re: [H] 870 EVO SSD vrs 920 PRO V-NAND

[James Boswell]

It was actually a really big deal at first

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/199673-second-patch-for-ongoing-840-evo-ssd-performance-issues-being-prepped-by-samsung


The absolutely newest firmware for the 840 Evo might actually have sorted
the problem, for a while they were a complete disaster.

On Mon, 18 Nov 2019 at 05:23, Winterlight 
wrote:

>
> It's a Samsung SSD 840 EVO 250GB. I imagine the 970 Pro is much
> faster but does it really matter for a OS drive that only boots once
> every couple of weeks, or whenever there is an update requiring a reboot.
>
> At 05:26 PM 11/17/2019, you wrote:
> >I myself have gone from 860 Pro to a 970 Pro and the 970 Pro is much
> faster.
> >
> >Something you might want to keep in mind. The 970 Pro is not a SATA HD.
> >
> >Do you mean from 970 EVO to 970 Pro?
> >
> >Tim Lider
> >
> >Red Belt at Cardenas School of Arnis
> >
> >Anime Enthusiast
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >On Sat, Nov 16, 2019 at 3:25 PM Winterlight 
> >wrote:
> >
> > > My OS drive is a Samsung 870 EVO  250GB. I have six core I7 running
> > > at 4.2 GHz with 64GB of Crucial Ballistic DDR3  and a Nvidia
> > > 1070.  I'm not a gamer  but I do video and media editing. When
> > > working with media I use my RAM = a 32 GB RAM DRIVE to work from so
> > > no drive should be as fast as that. However,  I see a deal on a 512
> > > GB V-Nand SSD 970 PRO. and I know this is  one of the fastest drives
> > > available.  If I install it, and use it as my OS drive instead of the
> > > existing 870 EVO will I even notice a difference?  Thanks w
> > >
> > >
>
>

Re: [H] SSD drives ?

[James Boswell]

I've had some issues with SATA SSDs that don't get along with Aggressive
Link Power Management, notably the Crucial MX100, if ALPM is on in the
machine it's in then it constantly goes into a sleep mode that the system
can't wake it from and I need to do a whole sing and dance with a USB
adapter to wake it up again, this was rather worse in its previous system
with an Asus P8Z68-V Pro/Gen3 board that didn't have a bios option to
disable ALPM, thankfully the Gigabyte Z170X-UD3 that it's hooked up to now
does have a toggle for it.

On Mon, 23 Sep 2019 at 18:47, Naushad Zulfiqar  wrote:

> I still haven't found any compatibility issues with SATA drives.
>
> Touch wood!
>
> On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 1:42 PM Tim Lider <619be...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hello Naushad,
> >
> > Compatibility in upgrading from Disk/SSD and Older computers are
> > compatible. On the PCIe (NVMe) end they are excellent in all computers
> > installed in.
> >
> > Tim Lider
> > Red Belt Arnis de Mano
> > https://www.facebook.com/CardenasArnis
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Hardware  On Behalf Of
> > Naushad Zulfiqar
> > Sent: Monday, September 23, 2019 10:34 AM
> > To: hardw...@lists.hardwaregroup.com
> > Subject: Re: [H] SSD drives ?
> >
> > Compatibility?  That's a first for me.  Can you explain what you mean by
> > compatibility?
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 12:57 PM Tim Lider <619be...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > I prefer Samsung for compatibility sake and recoverability sake as
> well.
> > > With WDC SSD's I have no information on them, other than what I have
> > > seen on Review sites.
> > >
> > > Have a great day,
> > >
> > > Tim Lider
> > > Red Belt Arnis de Mano
> > > https://www.facebook.com/CardenasArnis
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Hardware  On Behalf Of
> > > FORC5
> > > Sent: Monday, September 23, 2019 8:07 AM
> > > To: hardw...@lists.hardwaregroup.com
> > > Subject: Re: [H] SSD drives ?
> > >
> > >
> > > always was fond of WD spinners.
> > >
> > > thanks
> > >
> > > fuf
> > >
> > > On 9/23/2019 7:56 AM, Z Vaper wrote:
> > > > Yup I’ve used them. They are great.
> > > > On Sep 23, 2019, 10:44 AM -0400, FORC5 , wrote:
> > > >> Always use Samsung or Crucial, anyone ever used a WD SSD drive ?
> > > >>
> > > >> have a older customer build in need of new drives to replace the
> > > >> wore out spinners
> > > >>
> > > >> fufman
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Best Regards,
> >
> >
> > Zulfiqar Naushad
> >
> >
>
> --
> Best Regards,
>
>
> Zulfiqar Naushad
>

Re: [H] List seems dead these days?

[James Boswell]

Userbenchmark isn't without utility, but it should be noted that they've
just recently rebalanced their cpu performance reporting in a really silly
way, basically massively understating the performance of >4 core cpus by
making cores above the 4th 2% of the weight of the score, so by their
current metrics an i3 can be preferable to a like, 28 core xeon... Which...
Just no.

On Fri, 9 Aug 2019, 08:09 Brian Weeden,  wrote:

> It's alive!
>
> I actually did a rebuild of my main machine at the end of last year
> (i8700k, Asus Z370-Prime, GTX 1080 SC) and learned the hard way about DDR4
> incompatibilities when filling all four RAM slots.
>
> BTW, if you haven't seen it yet, this is a great site for comparing various
> builds:
> https://www.userbenchmark.com
>
> But when it came to my kids' gaming machines, I just bought a pair of Dell
> Inspiron desktops because they were the same price as what I could have
> built myself and just less hassle.
>
> I have found myself getting more into networking gear. I recently rebuild
> my home network using Unifi gear from Ubiquity (including switches, APs,
> and POE cameras) and that has proven to be very rewarding. The gear is much
> more customization and powerful than most consumer networking gear.
>
> -
> Brian
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 9, 2019 at 3:12 AM Tim Lider <619be...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I've been a part of the list since 95 or 96. I remember when we have the
> > get together in Vegas that year when ComDEX was happening.
> >
> > Those were the days,
> >
> > Tim Lider
> > Red Belt Arnis de Mano
> > https://www.facebook.com/CardenasArnis
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Hardware  On Behalf Of
> > didymus7
> > Sent: Thursday, August 8, 2019 3:46 PM
> > To: hardw...@lists.hardwaregroup.com
> > Subject: Re: [H] List seems dead these days?
> >
> > When did the list begin?  I've only been here since '95.  Not sure what
> > month.
> >
> > On 8/8/2019 4:53 PM, Scott Sipe wrote:
> > > I'm embarrassed to say my last serious build was an i7-4970 and a
> > > Geforce970 (and also embarrassed I had to look up in my email to see
> > > when that was -- 2014!). I do have an itch to try out AMD again.
> > >
> > > I put together a small AMD system a year or so ago with my son--who is
> > > now 9. I think I first joined the HWG when I was around 13 or 14 (does
> > > anybody remember when the list started?). Now THAT'S scary.
> > >
> > > Great to see so many people still around.
> > >
> > > Scott
> > >
> > > On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 9:01 PM Thane K. Sherrington <
> > > th...@computerconnectionltd.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Anyone else getting double posts?
> > >>
> > >> On 07/08/2019 9:58 p.m., Thane K. Sherrington wrote:
> > >>> Yeah, those were the days. :)
> > >>>
> > >>> T
> > >>>
> > >>> On 07/08/2019 3:16 p.m., Christopher Fisk wrote:
> > >>>
> >  Gone are the days of getting a 50% overclock out of a slocket'ed
> >  Celeron 300a malaysia.
> > 
> >  On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 1:37 PM Joshua MacCraw 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > > Is there an issue at my end or is the list faded?
> > >
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> >
>

Re: [H] List seems dead these days?

[James Boswell]

On the other hand we've got consumer socket 12 (and soon 16) core CPUs

That 3950X is lookin' MIghty tempting.

Just need to stop buying guitars long enough to actually have money for
computer hardware!

On Wed, 7 Aug 2019 at 19:16, Christopher Fisk 
wrote:

> Gone are the days of getting a 50% overclock out of a slocket'ed Celeron
> 300a malaysia.
>
> On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 1:37 PM Joshua MacCraw  wrote:
>
> > Is there an issue at my end or is the list faded?
> >
>

Re: [H] List seems dead these days?

[James Boswell]

We have always been here.

(assuming this reply works)

On Wed, 7 Aug 2019 at 18:37, Joshua MacCraw  wrote:

> Is there an issue at my end or is the list faded?
>

Re: [H] Should I rebuild my machine now or wait until the next gen ofCPUs?

[James Boswell]

*puzzled expression*
Are you referring to the CTS Labs hatchet job? Or has there actually been a 
legit security issue with the chipsets?

-JB

From: Brian Weeden
Sent: 07 July 2018 02:04
To: hardware
Subject: Re: [H] Should I rebuild my machine now or wait until the next gen 
ofCPUs?

Agree with  all of that, although as I mentioned earlier AMD's utter
failure in screening their motherboard chipset vendor also gives me pause.
Hard to tell if that's a one-off mistake, or a sign that they don't really
care that much about security.



-
Brian


On Fri, Jul 6, 2018 at 9:01 PM, Greg Sevart  wrote:

> Thus far, AMD's story has been more compelling than Intel's. AMD is immune
> to meltdown, and is broadly speaking less vulnerable to the Sceptre
> variants. However, it would be naïve to believe that AMD is in the clear,
> as additional vulnerabilities are slowly coming out in this new and novel
> class of attack vector.
>
> My thinking is that while both Linux and Windows are currently only doing
> the PTI/KernelVA shadowing for Intel, it will eventually be mandatory for
> all architectures--for defense in depth if nothing else.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Hardware [mailto:hardware-boun...@lists.hardwaregroup.com] On
> Behalf Of Brian Weeden
> Sent: Friday, July 6, 2018 3:42 PM
> To: hardware 
> Subject: Re: [H] Should I rebuild my machine now or wait until the next
> gen of CPUs?
>
> Winter, that is exactly the situation I'm in and the question I'm asking.
> I have not applied any patches to my system because a) they're only
> partially effective and b) they have a performance hit.
>
> So I'm trying to see if it makes sense to upgrade to a new machine now, or
> whether I should stick it out for another several months (year?) to see if
> Intel or AMD rolls out something that actually fixes the underlying
> problems.
>
>
>
> -
> Brian
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 6, 2018 at 4:38 PM, Winterlight 
> wrote:
>
> > This has been an interesting thread. So Greg the Ivy Bridge patch that
> > you posted will be delivered by Windows 10 ...eventually... maybe? I
> > am still running a P9X79 WS with my six core Ivy Bridge with Win10.
> > InSpectre tells me Spectre is not protected and performance is slower.
> > Just how much at risk am I. I figure I will never see a BIOS update..
> > ... or will I. The whole thing is a big mess, and I would imagine
> > there are all sorts of class action law suites heading toward CPU and
> motherboard manufactures.
> >
> >
> >
> > At 10:08 AM 7/6/2018, you wrote:
> >
> >> The chipset vulnerabilities were ugly, yes, but for their part AMD
> >> did ensure they were resolved quickly despite the research firm not
> >> following industry best-practices regarding vulnerability disclosure.
> >> My bigger beef is that AMD would use ASSmedia (not a typo) at all,
> >> given their fairly well-established track record of being roughly
> equivalent to dog excrement.
> >> I don't subscribe to the AMD Fanboy narrative that it was an Intel
> >> hit-job, though.
> >>
> >> Intel's roadmap is a real mess right now. A sudden and surprisingly
> >> competitive AMD portfolio coupled with severe yield and performance
> >> issues with their ambitious 10nm process technology has painted them
> >> into a corner with no good near-term options. So, they're going to
> >> push their 14nm++ tech for another iteration, adding cores, to (try
> >> to) re-establish clear superiority . Luckily for them, their 14++ is
> actually really good.
> >>
> >> Greg
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Hardware [mailto:hardware-boun...@lists.hardwaregroup.com] On
> >> Behalf Of Brian Weeden
> >> Sent: Friday, July 6, 2018 9:03 AM
> >> To: hardware 
> >> Subject: Re: [H] Should I rebuild my machine now or wait until the
> >> next gen of CPUs?
> >>
> >> Thanks,  Greg. That pretty much aligns with my thought process on
> >> this, so I guess it's good at least one other person is coming to the
> >> same conclusions I am :)
> >>
> >> Didn't know about the Ivy Bridge patches - will look into that more.
> >> But one of the reasons I haven't patched at all is that all the
> >> mitigations for older chips like mine have had significant
> >> performance penalties. And at this point that's a bigger issue for me
> >> than the security, as I'm not really in that big of a threat
> environment.
> >>
> >> But I plan to use whatever I buy for the next several years and it
> >> would be good to get something that's not going to have major
> >> structural vulnerabilities that will be problems that entire time.
> >>
> >> My major hangup with AMD is not the performance but rather the
> >> massive vulnerabilities found in their Ryzen chipset, all because
> >> they did a very poor job providing oversight of the company they
> >> outsourced it to. That doesn't speak well of their commitment to
> security in my mind.
> >>
> >> I had heard that Intel's 2018 lineup was delayed until next year as
> >> they try and fix all this stuff, but 

Re: [H] LIVA Z dual LAN

[James Boswell]

People use them as PF Sense boxes perhaps?

On 17 March 2018 at 19:06, Winterlight  wrote:

>  I have a LIVA media player on my Panasonic Vera  but now I am thinking of
> updating the TV to support 4K so I will need a mini PC that supports 4K
> I am thinking about buying a ECS LIVA Z Mini PC Intel N4200
> https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1688310
> 5011_re=LIVA_Z-_-83-105-011-_-Product
> my existing LIVA/Vera setup with a dual core Celeron has been really
> reliable running Win7Pro with Media Center and only cost me 80 bucks...but
> this Z model has a quad core and three USB3 ports and supports 4k.
>
>  What I don't get is why they put dual LAN ports on this kind of mini PC?
>
>

Re: [H] Win 8.1 to Win10

[James Boswell]

Standard "in OS" upgrade ended July 2016, Assistive Technologies upgrade
officially ended 31st Dec 2017 (but might still work?), clean install with
a Win7 or 8.1 key still works to my knowledge.

On 19 February 2018 at 22:33, Winterlight 
wrote:

>
> MS ended the free Windows 10 Pro upgrade I think in July of 2016, so a
> free upgrade would depend on whether or not the manufacturer offered
> itor at least that is my understanding.
>
>
> At 03:21 PM 2/19/2018, you wrote:
>
>> Can anyone tell me, if I were to buy a new PC that had 8.1 on it - would
>> I be able to upgrade it to 10 free (still)? TIA!
>>
>
>

Re: [H] Win 8.1 to Win10

[James Boswell]

Entering the Win8.1 serial in the Win10 installer still works I believe?


On 19 February 2018 at 22:21, Joe User  wrote:

> Can anyone tell me, if I were to buy a new PC that had 8.1 on it - would I
> be able to upgrade it to 10 free (still)? TIA!
>

Re: [H] Hard drive/SSD/rotations speed

[James Boswell]

yeah, SSD is the way to go for system drives these days.

It's not the straight up linear performance that makes the difference, it's
the random access perf. and that maintains whatever the interface the drive
is on (even over SATA-1 I'd still take an SSD over a 6Gbps spindle)

Have something similar (albeit a bit of a hackjob) over here, 120GB Crucial
M4 system drive and then a random assortment of spindles in a Windows
Storage Space.

Because contiguous space is made of win.

On 3 August 2017 at 16:41, Jim Maki <jwm_maill...@comcast.net> wrote:

> James - Thanks for the input. I guess I should have mentioned that the
> server is for videos, Blu-ray, DVD and television. Although the videos are
> stored on 3.5" 7200 and 5900 (an maybe some 5400) rpm spindle drives. The
> faster drives are for the OS, so I guess your observation as far as SSDs
> outperforming spindles would still stand.
>
> Back to the drawing board. I was trying to transfer the image made from
> the 15k SAS to the SSDs. Maybe I just need to start over!
>
> Again, thanks.
>
> Jim Maki
> jwm_maill...@comcast.net
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Hardware [mailto:hardware-boun...@lists.hardwaregroup.com] On
> Behalf Of James Boswell
> Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2017 8:16 AM
> To: hardw...@lists.hardwaregroup.com
> Subject: Re: [H] Hard drive/SSD/rotations speed
>
> Not to put too fine a point on it, the SSD will utterly destroy all of the
> spindles for random accesses, which almost all workloads outside of
> archival work and big media processing are.
>
> SSD on 3Gbps will feel much faster even if it's being bottlenecked from
> its absolute peak performance.
>
> On 3 August 2017 at 15:51, Jim Maki <jwm_maill...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > I have a refurbished HP DL380 G6 server with SAS controller. The SAS
> > controller communicates with a SAS drive at 6 GB and a SATA drive at 3
> GB.
> > I
> > have a selection of 15k, 10k, and 7.2k rotational SAS drives (2.5")
> > and a SATA SSD (Samsung 850 EVO). My question is on the relative
> > access times for the various drives I have available.
> >
> >
> >
> > Can I expect the 15k hard drive to be the faster of the SAS drives,
> > but how is it going to compare with the SATA SSD at half the speed (6 GB
> vs 3 GB).
> > I
> > have run into a problem trying to install the OS on the SSDs and am
> > trying to determine if the effort is not worth the time for the
> > potential performance gain. Also, I read somewhere that the iops of
> > the controller will be exceeded by the SSD, causing a bottleneck.
> >
> >
> >
> > Your thoughts would be appreciated.
> >
> >
> >
> > Jim Maki
> >
> > jwm_maill...@comcast.net
> >
> >
>
>

Re: [H] Hard drive/SSD/rotations speed

[James Boswell]

Not to put too fine a point on it, the SSD will utterly destroy all of the
spindles for random accesses, which almost all workloads outside of
archival work and big media processing are.

SSD on 3Gbps will feel much faster even if it's being bottlenecked from its
absolute peak performance.

On 3 August 2017 at 15:51, Jim Maki  wrote:

> I have a refurbished HP DL380 G6 server with SAS controller. The SAS
> controller communicates with a SAS drive at 6 GB and a SATA drive at 3 GB.
> I
> have a selection of 15k, 10k, and 7.2k rotational SAS drives (2.5") and a
> SATA SSD (Samsung 850 EVO). My question is on the relative access times for
> the various drives I have available.
>
>
>
> Can I expect the 15k hard drive to be the faster of the SAS drives, but how
> is it going to compare with the SATA SSD at half the speed (6 GB vs 3 GB).
> I
> have run into a problem trying to install the OS on the SSDs and am trying
> to determine if the effort is not worth the time for the potential
> performance gain. Also, I read somewhere that the iops of the controller
> will be exceeded by the SSD, causing a bottleneck.
>
>
>
> Your thoughts would be appreciated.
>
>
>
> Jim Maki
>
> jwm_maill...@comcast.net
>
>

Re: [H] Any one there ?

[James Boswell]

A 6950X paired with an RX480?

I'm guessing that's not a hardcore gaming build then, Because that's a
whole lot of CPU to pair with a mainstream GPU

On 27 June 2016 at 02:24, Greg Sevart  wrote:

> Still here as well.
>
> Recently picked up a Broadwell-E chip, the 10-core 6950X. I told myself I
> wasn't going to do it, but...did.
>
> I'd really like to see nvidia bring up the GTX1060 timeframe to counter the
> RX 480, would let me "finish" (ha-ha) this build.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Hardware [mailto:hardware-boun...@lists.hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf
> Of FORC5
> Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2016 7:20 PM
> To: hardw...@lists.hardwaregroup.com
> Subject: [H] Any one there ?
>
> Just wondering why the list has been so quiet
>
> also still using Eudora for email and wonder if anyone knows why sometimes
> some email come thru really scrambled, same email displays properly in
> TBird.
> American express email and siriusXM email I have to get in Tbird.
>
> from phones do not format well either but are readable.
>
> just wondering, Eudora is getting a little old but been using it a long
> time.
>
> tallyho
> fp
>
> Date:  Saturday, June 25th, 2016
>
> ***Caution, Tagline Below ***
>  **Tallyho**
> **
>If you can't learn to do it well, enjoy
>doing it badly.
> **
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [H] Duncan

[James Boswell]

Well I for one hope you've got access to lots of fun bits of computer
hardware to keep yourself mentally active.

Glad you're doing something in the recovery field though :) keep at it
Duncan :)

-JB

On 23 January 2015 at 00:45, dsinc...@epbfi.com wrote:

 I'm doing okay. Feelin' good.  I am in an assisted living facility called
 Rosewood, in Fort Oglethorpe (where my sister lives).  Have my own
 apartment.  And it sucks to have to stay here, til June, my calendar says.
 The food's lousy, but it's regular.  I'm supporting my local pharmacy--in
 Atlanta.  I haven't figured out email yet.  Sis comes by every couple of
 days and helps me out.  Learning my way around the place.

 Thanks for asking after me.

 Onward and Upward,
 Duncan

 - Original Message -From: Scott Sipe csco...@gmail.comTo:
 hardware@lists.hardwaregroup.comSent: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 01:55:30 -0500
 (EST)Subject: Re: [H] Duncan

 Bump. Anyone heard anything?

 Scott

  On Dec 18, 2014, at 8:38 PM, Christopher Fisk 
 christopher.f...@thefisks.org wrote:  Any updates on Duncan? It's been
 a few weeks and was hoping to hear good news!  On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at
 7:46 AM, Joshua MacCraw maccr...@gmail.com wrote:  Strength to
 Duncan  family.  On Sat, Nov 22, 2014 at 5:51 AM, James Edwards 
 jedwa...@hardwaregroup.com wrote: Yo everyone, pay attention! From
 his sister Bonny at addy4st...@yahoo.com  To all,  My
 brother, Duncan, (do not know how he's identified in your group other
 than the owner of this site) was admitted to the hospital on 11-11 after
 suffering multiple strokes. He was in ccu for 3 days, the hospital for 3
 and is now in re-hab. He is mobile, somewhat, and coherent, but
 memory, vision, and balance are impaired. Thought you would like to
 know. He's optimistic, accepting, and going with the flow. He's
 himself in conversation, just trapped in a not too responsive body.
  Bonny  Bonny, please send me a good address to send well wishes.
 I will forward it to the list.Jim Edwards 

Re: [H] Duncan

[James Boswell]

Oh no :(

Get well Duncan, or else!

-JB

On 22 November 2014 at 13:51, James Edwards jedwa...@hardwaregroup.com
wrote:

 Yo everyone, pay attention! From his sister Bonny at addy4st...@yahoo.com

 To all,

 My brother, Duncan, (do not know how he's identified in your group other
 than the owner of this site) was admitted to the hospital on 11-11 after
 suffering multiple strokes. He was in ccu for 3 days, the hospital for 3
 and
 is now in re-hab. He is mobile, somewhat, and coherent, but memory, vision,
 and balance are impaired. Thought you would like to know. He's optimistic,
 accepting, and going with the flow. He's himself in conversation, just
 trapped in a not too responsive body.

 Bonny

 Bonny, please send me a good address to send well wishes. I will forward it
 to the list.



 Jim Edwards

Re: [H] Does it matter?

[James Boswell]

When you initialise an SSD you've plugged in, windows will ask what drive
letter you wish to assign it. This happens under Control Panel 
Administrative tools  Computer Management  Storage  Disk Management
(which is exactly the same behaviour as a spindle)

the one thing that DOES matter is, is the port you're plugging it into a
SATA2 or SATA3 port... just about any modern SSD wants to go into a SATA3
port for performance reasons. (although they still feel bat out of hell
fast on a SATA3 port)


On 6 August 2014 21:01, DSinc dsinc...@epbfi.com wrote:

 Does it matter 'where' a SSD is plugged into a SATA m/b portto have it
 shown in
 bios? Does the OS (win7pro-32bit) pick it up and give it a 'drive #'? WTF?

 Sorry. I am still trying to learnWindow 7pro and Windows 8.1pro.

 I have read and re-read the traffic of the past 2 weeks. I accept that the
 collective has some 'SSD experts,' and a bunch of 'SSD wanna-bes.'
 I am new to implementing SSD.

 I really would like to ask a question, and, just get an
 answer without personal bias. Is this possible any more??
 Or is SSD now being used as a way to divide the collective?
 Best,
 Duncan

Re: [H] SSD and XP ?

[James Boswell]

yeah, Samsung offer extra configurability, but they are both
overprovisioning :)


On 3 August 2014 03:14, FORC5 fuf...@cox.net wrote:

 but crucial does not use space that can be used.
 I do like the sw and it has a function to optimize on OS without trim.
 confusing for these old grey cells.

 used to be more fun.

 At 06:44 PM 8/2/2014, James Boswell Poked the stick with:

 FYI, the any SSD (Crucial included) has overprovisioning of flash to allow
 for graceful cell failure management.

 Samsung expose it in an adjustable fashion, you COULD minimise the
 overprovision amount, but I'd say it's a very very very bad idea.

 -James


 On 2 August 2014 20:22, FORC5 fuf...@cox.net wrote:

  kind of figured that, suppose I could clone it off and back.
  drive is a Crucial ( I think) need to look at that. I like Samsung
 except
  they use drive space for a OP partition. 10% recommended. bad to loose
  space. Do like their sw, Crucial claims they are working on some.
  Any after market SW you can recommend ?
  Already dl'ed AVG to replace MSE. Not sure what else to do.
 
  So far have found some win32/trojans according to ESET. scan not done
 yet.
 
  hate working on antiques. :-)
  thanks
  fp
  At 12:08 PM 8/2/2014, Greg Sevart Poked the stick with:
 


 Date:  Saturday, August 2nd, 2014

 ***Caution Tagline Below***
 **Tallyho**
 ***
   Fish heads, fish heads, roly-poly fish
heads
 ***

Re: [H] OB's old PC has died

[James Boswell]

I feel like I should point out that vacuuming the interior of a PC is a bad
idea because they can/do generate a large amount of electrostatic energy.

Preferred method of cleaning is compressed air/air duster (Which is largely
compressed air) as a result.

-JB


On 1 July 2014 18:02, DSinc dsinc...@epbfi.com wrote:

 Just to wrap-up the thread I started about things I needed to understand
 to help my
 OB upgrade his old Athlon 64/Gigabyte m/b PC from WinXP to Win8.1pro.

 The mechanical bits went quite well. His new 128GB SSD got installed and
 cabled.
 He removed his old 160GB XP EMHD. All his data was backed up.

 Yesterday morning OB powered off his PC to vacuum out all cat hair,
 install his new
 4GB of RAM,and, double check all his cabling. He completed all this and
 then called me
 do the actual power back on, and install of W8.1pro. The PC failed to
 power back on and
 complete POST. The infamous Black Screen presented itself, but, the
 cooling fans in the PC
 were running (OK, +12v was alive), but the m/b remained essentially dead.
 The optical drive
 with the install DVD pre-loaded failed to do anything. We comiserated. I
 mentioned that this
 was a possibility. That did not ease his anger.

 OB decided to contact a local resident of his new neighborhood complexwho
 does PC diagnosis/repair
 and SW install for members of the neighborhood.

 OB called this AM and said his new diagnosis confirmed a newly dead PC
 m/b... :(
 So, OB is now shopping a new desktop PC(believe with an Intel Core-i5
 processor).
  He is looking at Dell. I will share what he eventually chooses.

 I truly appreciate all the help the Collective shared during this really
 intense (for me) period of trying to
 do a long-distance upgrade that ultimately failed. No harm, no foul. Just
 a bad roll of the dice.
 Thankyou,
 Duncan

Re: [H] Windows 8.1 question

[James Boswell]

An Athlon64 fully supports everything needed to run Windows 8.1


On 21 June 2014 13:24, DSinc dsinc...@epbfi.com wrote:

 Does anyone in the collective run Windows 8.1 using a PC using an AMD
 'Athlon' 64 processor on your m/b?

 OB got totally frustated at the AMD website trying to trying to confirm
 that his processor meets the following
 Windows 8.1 hardware requirement, e.g.:

 Processor: 1 gigahertz (GHz) or faster with support for PAE, NX, and SSE2
 (more info)..below
 http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-8/what-is-pae-nx-sse2


Applies to Windows 8.1

 Physical Address Extension (PAE), NX processor bit (NX), and Streaming
 SIMD Extensions 2 (SSE2) are features of the processor, and they're needed
 to run Windows 8.1.

  *

PAE gives 32-bit processors the ability to use more than 4 GB of
physical memory on capable versions of Windows, and is a
prerequisite for NX.

  *

NX helps your processor guard the PC from attacks by malicious software.

  *

SSE2 is a standard instruction set on processors that is
increasingly used by third-party apps and drivers.

 If your PC doesn't support PAE, NX, and SSE2, you won't be able to install
 Windows 8.1. When you download Windows 8.1 from the Store or run Upgrade
 Assistant, we'll let you know if your processor doesn't support PAE and
 SSE2, if it might not support NX, or if NX is turned off in the PC BIOS. If
 NX appears to be off, the installer will try to turn it on during
 installation and, if it can't, it will return your PC to the current
 operating system.

 Opinions, suggestions, experiences welcome.
 Duncan

Re: [H] Powerline Question

[James Boswell]

Yeah, I've got switches hanging off of 3 out of 4 powerline ethernet
adapters in my current digs.  (actually routers, but two have their routing
switched off)
On 26 Oct 2013 12:35, Brian Weeden brian.wee...@gmail.com wrote:

 I've been using the Netgear Powerline system for a couple years now with
 great success. However, I've always only had one device plugged into each
 adapter.

 Does anyone know if you can plug a hub or a switch into an adapter and that
 way have more than one device connected through each adapter?

 I know Netgear sells something that does this, but I'd love to be able to
 use a regular old hub/switch than have to buy another $100 device.

 -
 Brian

Re: [H] Powerline Question

[James Boswell]

Yes, unless something very odd happens.  (it's an Asus rt-n66, an rt-n16
(routing off) and a wrt54gl (routing off) here.)
On 26 Oct 2013 13:04, Brian Weeden brian.wee...@gmail.com wrote:

 So just any old switch should do?

 ---
 Brian

 On Oct 26, 2013, at 7:59, James Boswell torazch...@gmail.com wrote:

  Yeah, I've got switches hanging off of 3 out of 4 powerline ethernet
  adapters in my current digs.  (actually routers, but two have their
 routing
  switched off)
  On 26 Oct 2013 12:35, Brian Weeden brian.wee...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  I've been using the Netgear Powerline system for a couple years now with
  great success. However, I've always only had one device plugged into
 each
  adapter.
 
  Does anyone know if you can plug a hub or a switch into an adapter and
 that
  way have more than one device connected through each adapter?
 
  I know Netgear sells something that does this, but I'd love to be able
 to
  use a regular old hub/switch than have to buy another $100 device.
 
  -
  Brian
 

Re: [H] microSD SSD Creator Kit

[James Boswell]

3.6 on Windows experience index is slow. Also there thing costs
nearly as much as a 120gb proper ssd.

As far as I'm concerned it's a gimmick. And not a very good one. Sadly.
On 5 Oct 2013 12:13, Steve Tomporowski didym...@gmail.com wrote:

 This sounds like a cool ideaand cheap:

 http://www.geekstuff4u.com/**microsd-ssd-creator-kit.html#.**Uk_zrRCmUrZhttp://www.geekstuff4u.com/microsd-ssd-creator-kit.html#.Uk_zrRCmUrZ

Re: [H] Win 7 home ?

[James Boswell]

Windows 7 Home 64bit can handle 16GB of memory, Windows 7 STARTER is the
version that caps out at 2GB



On 23 August 2013 14:33, FORC5 fuf...@cox.net wrote:

 seem to remember something like that too, thanks. homework afoot
 fp

 At 03:11 AM 8/23/2013, Steve Tomporowski Poked the stick with:

 Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but isn't Win7 Home the version where it can
 only access 2 GB of memory, any more than that it ignores?

 Steve

 On 8/22/2013 10:44 PM, Christopher Fisk wrote:

 I use home.  No issues with it.


 On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 11:39 AM, FORC5 fuf...@cox.net wrote:

  Need to build a system for a friend and wondering any reason to not just
 use W7 Home premium ?
 Pro is another $40 and my friend is very frugal. :-[
 fp


 Date:  Thursday, August 22nd, 2013

 ***Caution, Tagline Below ***
  **Tallyho**
 **
 Don't you know where *your* towel is?
 **











 Date:  Friday, August 23rd, 2013


***Caution, Tagline Below ***
 **Tallyho**
 
So long, and thanks for all the fish.
 

Re: [H] Win 7 home ?

[James Boswell]

This handy chart shows what supports what.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_7_editions#Comparison_chart


On 23 August 2013 14:47, FORC5 fuf...@cox.net wrote:

 thanks, that helps.
 seems like a silly thing to cap
 fp

 At 06:36 AM 8/23/2013, James Boswell Poked the stick with:

 Windows 7 Home 64bit can handle 16GB of memory, Windows 7 STARTER is the
 version that caps out at 2GB



 On 23 August 2013 14:33, FORC5 fuf...@cox.net wrote:

  seem to remember something like that too, thanks. homework afoot
  fp
 
  At 03:11 AM 8/23/2013, Steve Tomporowski Poked the stick with:
 
  Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but isn't Win7 Home the version where it
 can
  only access 2 GB of memory, any more than that it ignores?
 
  Steve
 
  On 8/22/2013 10:44 PM, Christopher Fisk wrote:
 


 Date:  Friday, August 23rd, 2013

***Caution, Tagline Below ***
 **Tallyho**
 
So long, and thanks for all the fish.
 

Re: [H] dumb question

[James Boswell]

Also there is a major shortage of drivers for XP64 bit, it was basically a
proof of concept build that got into the wild, pretty much nobody actually
bothered to support it. any slightly esoteric hardware (usually printers
are the first thing to show it up) and you might as well be running IRIX ;)

If you've got hardware that will run it, odds are it'll run Windows 7
perfectly well, I'd be inclined to just bite the bullet on it and get
yourself onto something that's got another 7 years of security support
coming :) (or just go straight to 8 and run classicstart)




On 23 August 2013 15:41, DSinc dsinc...@epbfi.com wrote:

 Yeah. Preach to the choir! LOL!
 WGA chained one of my PCs yesterday!
 Ho-hum.. :)
 Duncan

 On 08/23/2013 10:33, Brian Weeden wrote:

 Don't think so.  They are completely different code bases.  Besides,
 should
 be moving off XP anyways. Next April Microsoft stops issuing security
 patches for XP forever.  It's basically open season on anything running XP
 after that.



 -
 Brian



 On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 10:21 AM, FORC5 fuf...@cox.net wrote:

  Is it possible to upgrade XP 32 bit with XP 64 bit ? without a clean
 install.
 fp


 Date:  Friday, August 23rd, 2013

 ***Caution, Tagline Below ***
  **Tallyho**
 **
You can't judge Egypt by Aida.
 **

Re: [H] USB 3

[James Boswell]

In short, no, requires USB 3.0 hubs and a superspeed cable linking to it
for maximum speed.

It'll rollback to 480mbps otherwise.

-JB

On 28 February 2013 19:37, Winterlight winterli...@winterlight.org wrote:

 I own a few USB flash and external drives but I have no USB3 ports yet. I
 know that USB3 is backward compatible with USB2 but does it also use the
 same cables and hubs as USB2 to obtain it's maximum speeds?

Re: [H] Cooks tour of IMAP and POP(3)?

[James Boswell]

IMAP is absolutely the superior system :)

I use it with Outlook on two windows machines, Mail.app on two Macs  
and on my iphone, my read status for messages and whatnot is all kept  
synced up and it's really rather swish.


I'm surprised you're using ISP provided email though, rather than  
gmail or whatnot?


On 11 Sep 2010, at 02:53:490, DSinc wrote:

I have switched ISP's. I now use fiber. The service is blindingly  
fast!

Saved 40yrs for this day.
I have both IMAP or POP/POP3 available for email.

Thoughts/suggestions?

I suspect more reading/learning... :)
Best,
Duncan

Re: [H] Steam on two PCs

[James Boswell]

You can have it installed on as many machines as you like, so long as  
they're used one at a time.


On 15 Jun 2010, at 20:41:210, Winterlight wrote:

If you have Steam on one PC can you install it on another one as  
long as you use them one at a time or do you need to remove it from  
one before installing to the other?

Thanks

Re: [H] new SSD

[James Boswell]

It will probably work in the absolute sense,  but you want the partitions to be 
4K aligned on the SSD for performance reasons, and I don't know if Acronis will 
do that in the transfer process?


-JB

On 8 Jun 2010, at 03:01, Winterlight wrote:

 I have a new Intel SSD  I am planning on useing to replace my 50GB primary 
 64bit Win 7 Pro OS partition, which resides currently on my existing Raptor. 
 Is there any reason why I can't use Acronis to copy my current partition to 
 my new SSD? .. maybe even hide my current active partition until I am sure 
 all is well.
 
 I am unsure if this will work in a 64 bit OS and with a SSD the 
 bootloader on Win7 is so complicated.
 thanks
 

Re: [H] new SSD

[James Boswell]

On 8 Jun 2010, at 03:24, Winterlight wrote:

 At 07:02 PM 6/7/2010, you wrote:
 It will probably work in the absolute sense,  but you want the partitions to 
 be 4K aligned on the SSD for performance reasons, and I don't know if 
 Acronis will do that in the transfer process?
 -JB
 
 Is it best to leave the SSD partition as one big 80GB partition or is it OK 
 to partition it into a Primary and extended/logical like any other drive?

There's no reason that I'm aware of to not partition it from a technical 
standpoint, I wouldn't personally because I'm a fan of contiguous space and 
partitions are thus the bane of my life as a result, but to each their own. :)

-JB

Re: [H] Video card suggestions please

[James Boswell]

Your 4870 is still pretty capable, to get something that meaningfully 
outperforms it you're looking at a radeon 5850/5870, or an Nvidia GTX470/480


On 6 Apr 2010, at 17:31, Joe User wrote:

 Hello THG,
 
 A few years ago, with the help of some of you, I put together a game
 system which has served me well. I don't want to lay out for a new
 system this year, maybe in another year or so. I mainly play WoW and
 STO. However, I do play some Steam games, FPS, RTS, etc. I thought, I
 would purchase a new video card to boost performance - as the rest of
 the system seems to be serving me well. Here's what I have:
 
 WinXP Pro SP3 32 bit
 Intel E6850 (3 GHz)
 4GB memory (I know XP limit)
 (3) WD 740 Raptors
 Gigabyte Intel P35 Chipset (P35-DS3P)
 Samsung 244T
 
 MSI ATI 1GB 4870
 
 
 What would be a good card to go with for upgrade - strongly prefer a
 nVidia solution this time...
 
 I understand WoW is CPU limited but I think STO (my current addiction)
 could use a better card but the rest of my specs are good. (?)
 
 All advice is welcomed.
 
 
 -- 
 Regards,
 joeuser - Still looking for the 'any' key...
 
 ...now these points of data make a beautiful line...
 

Re: [H] SCSI (was RE: Old Floppy Drives)

[James Boswell]

at the upper reaches of high end, it's been displaced by SAS

otherwise SATA with NCQ is everywhere.

On 30 Mar 2010, at 21:16, Bino Gopal wrote:

 
 Heh, so that makes me wonder, is SCSI pretty much dead, even in servers?
 
 
 
 Haven't heard much about it lately, and there was that period like ~10 yrs 
 ago when it was the bee's knees (yes, I just said bee's knees! :P) for the 
 fastest HDs available...I'm curious what the consensus is on what happened to 
 SCSI?
 
 
 
 BINO
 
 
 Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 15:33:51 -0400
 From: dx7...@bellsouth.net
 To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com
 Subject: Re: [H] Old Floppy Drives
 
 FORC5,
 Understand. I've still got one small box of old floppies. As soon as I 
 can upgrade all my old SCSI stuff to SATA, I sorta need to keep these 
 things.
 Close I am. Seems that my OLD (scsi) machines new seem to be getting 
 ready to croak. Not bad. I knew this day would come. Just getting 
 prepared! And, I have been lazy and cash-poor to upgrade faster (sooner).
 I will mention how much I love my 3 new C2D machines. I have now 
 experienced the future and it is fast and bright.
 Duncan
 
 
 On 03/30/2010 14:47, FORC5 wrote:
 moved into a new house and just threw away several hundred floppies,
 some maybe even collectable ( old games like doom and Wolfenstein 3d) :'(
 fp
 
 At 09:31 AM 3/30/2010, DSinc Poked the stick with:
 Anthony,
 Yes, I saw this model and another model from Nippon Labs. Problem is
 that both of these still require the eide FD cable. Not completely usb.
 
 I am considering the Iomega Silver model, N82E16821108201, $34.99.
 I'd like NOT to try Sabrent or Rosewill again!
 Duncan
 
 
 On 03/30/2010 09:38, Anthony Q. Martin wrote:
 And then there is this on newegg:
 
 
 BYTECC BT-146 All-in-one Internal USB2.0 connector Card Reader w/
 Floppy Drive - Retail
 
 Item #: N82E16820192022
 
 On 3/29/2010 8:10 PM, DSinc wrote:
 Anthony,
 Yes, I do. I'd like to believe that there is really nothing I might
 ever need again, but, just do not know yet. I am still working to be
 Floppy-Free.
 
 USB floppy drive? Do tell :)
 Think that is what I now seek!!!
 LOL!
 Duncan
 
 
 On 03/29/2010 19:31, Anthony Q. Martin wrote:
 You actually still have files saved on Floppies? None of my machines
 have floppies.
 
 Why not a USB floppy drive?
 
 On 3/29/2010 7:18 PM, DSinc wrote:
 I assume that old 3.5in 1.44MB floppy drives use the old eide
 interface.
 And, I am now noticing new m/b's that do not have a floppy connector.
 OK. I understand.
 
 Is there any kind of external conversion box (eide-usb) I can use to
 keep a NEW working Sony/TEAC 3.5in floppy drive around for some
 time.
 
 Yes, I do so know that I should have converted all my old floppies to
 usb sticks years ago. Fine. I'm late with this, also! Sue me!
 It seems that I am finding out what the life of Sony/TEAC floppy
 drives useful life may be. All mine are 12-15 (or more!) yrs old!
 Wondering?
 Duncan
 
 
 
 No virus found in this incoming message.
 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
 Version: 9.0.791 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2778 - Release Date:
 03/29/10 14:32:00
 
 
 No virus found in this incoming message.
 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
 Version: 9.0.791 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2778 - Release Date:
 03/29/10 14:32:00
 
 
 No virus found in this incoming message.
 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
 Version: 9.0.791 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2779 - Release Date:
 03/29/10 23:32:00
 
 

Re: [H] blu-ray DVD

[James Boswell]

Movies shot on film are simply rescanned frame by frame at a higher resolution, 
just about anything shot digitally is shot at a minimum of 1920x1080 (Phantom 
Menace was shot at that res as I recall)

And of course, anything CG can be arbitrarily rerendered at whatever resolution 
is desired.

That was the plan for Babylon 5, except someone lost the mesh/texture/scene 
files to rerender it in lightwave :/

On 19 Mar 2010, at 09:22, Winterlight wrote:

 Here is something I don't get. How can they take a movie, like the Lord of 
 the Rings, before HD and blue-ray were in use and then turn it into a blu-ray 
 movie. Don't you need special HD cameras to make a HD movie?
 

Re: [H] blu-ray DVD

[James Boswell]

Shot in HD doesn't really mean anything beyond wasn't shot with a crappy 
camcorder

film resolution is a lot higher (depending on grain level) than Blu-Ray or 
HD-DVD, and digital equipment used for filmmaking has been that sort of level 
and up from day one.

imagine how horrible NTSC res footage would look on a cinema scale projector. 
ugh.

On 19 Mar 2010, at 09:32, Winterlight wrote:

 So it is real, as good as if it were shot HD? It is not just some kind of 
 rendering?
 
 At 02:30 AM 3/19/2010, you wrote:
 Movies shot on film are simply rescanned frame by frame at a higher 
 resolution, just about anything shot digitally is shot at a minimum of 
 1920x1080 (Phantom Menace was shot at that res as I recall)
 
 And of course, anything CG can be arbitrarily rerendered at whatever 
 resolution is desired.
 
 That was the plan for Babylon 5, except someone lost the mesh/texture/scene 
 files to rerender it in lightwave :/
 
 On 19 Mar 2010, at 09:22, Winterlight wrote:
 
  Here is something I don't get. How can they take a movie, like the Lord of 
  the Rings, before HD and blue-ray were in use and then turn it into a 
  blu-ray movie. Don't you need special HD cameras to make a HD movie?
 
 

Re: [H] Testing Graphic Card Stability

[James Boswell]

Quake 3 isn't going to stress a modern card particularly well?

I'd have thought Far Cry 2's benchmark would have been a better stress test.

On 15 Mar 2010, at 17:03, Anthony Q. Martin wrote:

 Will Quake 3 run in a continuous loop?  I've run both demos several times at 
 the high res with all features on.  No problems.  New vidcard installed.
 
 Frankly, I've been using eqiupment for a while with zero problems. The 
 problems started with the first Radeon. So far, over a short span, this card 
 seems to be fine.
 
 On 3/15/2010 12:23 PM, Robert Martin Jr. wrote:
 If you can't narrow this down to driver issue, my first thought would be 
 power supply going south. I've seen similar issues when the power supply 
 isn't providing quite enough power to the system.  Video card could be iffy 
 or even mainboard. As for video stress test I still use a quake3 demo loop 
 although I'm sure there are much better tests available.
 
 lopaka
 
 
 
 
 
 
 From: Anthony Q. Martinamar...@charter.net
 To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com
 Sent: Mon, March 15, 2010 6:35:17 AM
 Subject: [H] Testing Graphic Card Stability
 
 Ok
 
 I had a HIS ATI Radeon HD 5770 in this system.  Tried all drivers available, 
 using driver cleaner to remove previous drivers, etc, yet the same result 
 persisted: Crashing..  Yesterday, my PC reboot several times during the day. 
  On some days, it doesn't do that.
 
 I just loaded in A Sapphire Radeon HD 5770 in thsi system. While these cards 
 are basically the same, performance wise, they boards are different as this 
 one has to DVI ports on it while the other other only had one.  Thus, the 
 layouts of the boards are very different (I didn't want to risk getting the 
 exact same board for fear of some fundamental problem in the board design 
 from HIS or ATI).
 
 So far, and not much time has gone by since I just installed this board a 
 couple of hours ago, things seem to be working. WEI works as done some 
 program I got called Performance Test.
 
 My question is what software can I use the drive this video card in a loop 
 to see if it really works or not?  Or, am I going to have to see here and 
 wait for a crash?
 
 Thanks.
 
 
 
 No virus found in this incoming message.
 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
 Version: 9.0.790 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2748 - Release Date: 03/15/10 
 03:33:00
 
   

Re: [H] i5-750 vs i7-920

[James Boswell]

I'm gonna say... I7-860
roughly the same price for the chip as the 920, fits the same board as  
the i5-750 and is quicker than either


2.83Ghz base clock, peak of.. 3.46Ghz turboboost (IIRC)
4 cores, HT enabled

On 19 Feb 2010, at 17:44:280, Steve Tomporowski wrote:


Not that I'm ready to pull the trigger on a new upgrade, but I was
wondering what kind of performance increase I could expect from an
upgrade.  Currently my fastest system is an E8500 (the other is an
E6850) and I was looking at bang for the buck.  Here's the confusion,
in comparing the i5-750 and i7-920 (roughly my price range), the
benchmarks are all over the place with one not definitively better
than the other.  The big issue, of course, is that the i7-920 is about
$100 more.  So is there any reason (for a gamer) to go with the i7-920
over the i5-750?

ThanksSteve

Re: [H] 2D, Acceleration, And Windows: Aren't All Graphics Cards Equal?

[James Boswell]

On 19 Feb 2010, at 01:01, Winterlight wrote:

 At 04:42 PM 2/18/2010, you wrote:
 If I could justify spending $300 my personal choice would be an HD5850. I'll 
 never do Crossfire or SLI because to me it's just overkill unless you have a 
 30 monitor and want the fastest FPS you can get.
 
 well I do have a 30 inch monitor, but crossfire in a multi monitor setup has 
 proved to be very annoying.
 I was thinking of a HD 5770. Wouldn't this, on it's own, be faster then my 
 two 4870s in Crossfire?... (correction from my calling them 4970s originally.)

the 5770 is slightly faster computationally than a single 4870 (800 shaders 
at.. 850Mhz I believe? rather than 750 or so for the 4870) but it's WY down 
on memory bandwidth, 76GB/s vs 115GB/s or therebouts.

a 5870 however, will be about as fast as a pair of 4870's :)

Re: [H] something is going on at PCPC

[James Boswell]

I had some terrible reliability problems with various models of antec PSU a 
couple of years ago, had several models all develop dead +12v power for the cpu 
connector in a fairly short timeframe, and that kinda put me off.
pretty much everything I've got or maintain has an Enermax or Corsair unit in 
it, and I've had no trouble with them.

Also had good results from Tagan units.

On 26 Jan 2010, at 20:10, Neil Davidson wrote:

 Antec, Corsair and Enermax PSUs get a lot of rep from forums I'm on.
 
 -Original Message-
 From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com
 [mailto:hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of Winterlight
 Sent: 26 January 2010 19:30
 To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com
 Subject: [H] something is going on at PCPC
 
 I ordered a quiet 910 last month at Provantage and it was put on back order.
 Now I am notified that the manufacturer has cancelled the product. Funny
 thing is that neither Newegg or Provantage have much PCPC inventory, and
 the ones who have the 910 in stock want a lot of money for them. So I called
 PCPC and was told that Provantage and Newegg are no longer buying from them
 and that yes the 910 was discontinued seven months ago. A new line would be
 coming out the first week of February which includes a 950 watt but so no
 prices have been made available yet.
 
 The whole thing feels like a business that is in trouble, maybe going under,
 or was sold to somebody who is planning on capitalizing on their rep. So
 Greg, you are still solid on Seasonic?... there seems to be mixed reviews on
 Newegg Seasonic 850 50 percent great, 25 percent OK but some kind of issue,
 and 25 percent DOA or a problem.
 

Re: [H] Incompatible Memory?

[James Boswell]

run memtest86+ on the thing

On 4 Jan 2010, at 23:49:460, Anthony Q. Martin wrote:

I just put 8 GB of G.Skill ram only my Mobo (Gigabite P35-DS4).   
This is DD2-1066 CL5-5-5-15 ram.  I got this from NewEgg.


I quickly noticed Win7 would crash before too long. Finally, I got  
into Prime95 and it immediately halted saying that there was an  
error in calculation (it was getting wrong results for known  
calculations!).  After seeing this, I put the old 2G of HyperX  
DD2-800 ram back in the system.  Prime95 seems to be working now,  
though I have not completed a full-length stress test.  I have been  
using this ram for the last two years, though.


I did try a few other setting of the timing on the G.Skill ram, but  
never got to anything that seems stable.


Should I keep going with this ram (while trying to find some setting  
that works) or seek to return for an exchange with Newegg?  By the  
way, the old ram gets a 5.5 on Windows Experience Index while the  
new ram gets a 7.2.


Thanks.

Re: [H] SSD Time.............

[James Boswell]

the newest and shiniest SSD's support TRIM, which negates the need to perform 
the resets.


On 19 Dec 2009, at 07:39, Anthony Q. Martin wrote:

 I found this comment on Newegg:
 
 
 
   *Cons:* The only thing I can say that will be annoying is that when
   or if i should ever start seeing performance issues, you are suppose
   to wipe each of your SSD cards with a software called HDDErase 4.x.
   But to do this, I'll have to unplug each of my SSD cards from my
   Raid Controller, connect to my motherboard SATA ports and set the
   BIOS of my motherboard to SATA-TYPE: IDE. Then run the HDDErase to
   clean them. This is suppose to reset the SSD drives to the factory
   defaults. When done reconnect your SSD drives back to your
   raid-controller and restore an image back onto your HDD.
   *Other Thoughts:* Although this will be annoying having to reset
   your SSDs every 3-6 months depending on your usage, we all have to
   remember this is new technology, and software within the next year
   should solve these issues eventually. And if that software never
   comes... ooh well. The speed is totally worth it for me!!!
 
 
 
 Sounds different, for sure. Can you confirm the need to reset the SSD?
 
 Greg Sevart wrote:
 Standard SATA power and data connections. Mounting is easy. Since they have
 no moving parts, are fairly immune to shock and vibration, and are
 exceptionally light, a lot of people are just taping them to the sides or
 bottom of the case. Most of them use the 2.5 form factor and are either 9.5
 or 7mm tall. In my case, I bought a cheap 2x 2.5 to 1x 3.5 adapter and put
 both of my Intel G2 SSDs in the spot for a single 3.5 drive.
 
 -Original Message-
 From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com
 [mailto:hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of Winterlight
 Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 8:35 PM
 To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com
 Subject: Re: [H] SSD Time.
 
 
 do you just plug them in like any drive? do you need anything special to 
 mount them?
 
 At 06:04 PM 12/18/2009, you wrote:
  
 Pretty much. And once you've used a machine that has a good one (read: one
 not based on a JMicron or Samsung controller), using any machine with a
 magnetic drive is excruciating.
 
 They so vastly improve system responsiveness, yet at the same time, it

 feels
  
 like that's just the way a computer should have been all along.
 
 -Original Message-
 From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com
 [mailto:hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of DSinc
 Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 7:20 PM
 To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com
 Subject: Re: [H] SSD Time.
 
 OK, time for an end-of-the-year stupid question!
 Is this SSD business the non-mechanical replacement for our current
 SATA HD wars/questions/bench races/?
 
 Like a flash drive on steroids?
 Wondering?
 Best of the Season,
 Duncan

 
 
 
 
  

Re: [H] XP VM (was Re: Laptop processor)

[James Boswell]

It's completely free

http://www.virtualbox.org/

as in speech and as in beer.


On 30 Nov 2009, at 19:24:450, Steve Tomporowski wrote:


What's the going price on Virtualbox?

Steve

On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 2:22 PM, Scott Sipe csco...@gmail.com wrote:

Gotcha, thanks Tim.

I have to say, I've been really impressed with VirtualBox! My usage  
has been minimal (played through Myst and Riven in a Win98  
virtualbox!) but it's worked very well. I also like Parallels  
Desktop for Mac, but am getting tired of the upgrade train! Had to  
upgrade to version 4.0 when Snow Leopard came out, and now there's  
a version 5.0 out.


Thanks,
Scott

On Nov 30, 2009, at 2:14 PM, Tim Lider wrote:


Scott,

As for the Windows 7 XP VM, it sucks in comparison to Sun's  
VirtualBox or
VMware. I myself have both Windows XP mode VM installed and Sun's  
VirtualBox
installed. I use Sun VirtualBox for all my XP needs.  Reason I  
need XP is

the Works Database is not 100% compatible with Windows 7's way of
networking.

Regards,

Tim Lider
Sr. Data Recovery Specialist
Advanced Data Solutions, LLC
http://www.adv-data.com



-Original Message-
From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com [mailto:hardware-
boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of Scott Sipe
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 10:51 AM
To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com
Subject: [H] XP VM (was Re: Laptop processor)


I have no experience with the XP VM in Windows7 and have tried  
only a
small number of programs on Win7 (and all have worked fine). Is  
the XP

VM needed for much--are there many programs that don't work?

Scott

On Nov 30, 2009, at 11:23 AM, Gary wrote:

VMware will work with XP mode (I have done it on several  
desktops) as

long

as I can get it from MS. It imports and clones XP VM.


-Original Message-
From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com [mailto:hardware-
boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of Rick Glazier
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 10:07 AM
To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com
Subject: Re: [H] Laptop processor

You need ABOVE Win7 Home Premium to apply...
But even then, I think you are locked out.
XP-Mode is embedded. I doubt MS lets it be used in the way you

want.


Rick Glazier

From: Gary
Interesting...does that mean that if I wanted to download the  
free

XP with

the P7450, I could not? And use VMware?


-Original Message-
From: hardware-bounces
So the P8400 has 130MHz and Intel VT over the P7450.

Re: [H] Codecs for Win7

[James Boswell]

Just install the Haali media splitter and MKV should be fine in WMP

On 3 Oct 2009, at 00:07:160, Steve Tomporowski wrote:

Are there special codecs for Win7 or can it use something like the  
CCCP?  I need to load up mkv.


Thanks.Steve


__ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus  
signature database 4477 (20091002) __


The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

http://www.eset.com

Re: [H] I5 I7 ??

[James Boswell]

I believe this speaks for itself

http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/storage/Intel/34nmSSD/Review/new-4kb-write-mbs.png

4kb chunk random write pattern, and there's a 300GB Veliciraptor on  
the list :)


On 29 Sep 2009, at 01:15:240, Winterlight wrote:


At 04:16 PM 9/28/2009, you wrote:
Oh yeah one more thing. The biggest single performance gain will be  
realized by purchasing a SSD drive.


even compared to my Velociraptor ?  What brands ?

[H] Epson Perfection 3200 software CD

[James Boswell]

Hi, a client of mine has an Epson Perfection 3200 Photo, and has lost  
the CD that came with it...


the drivers are a non-issue (they're online) but they want the Epson  
Smartpanel software which for whatever reason isn't on the website,  
he's contacted Epson and they sent him somewhere else... who sent him  
back to Epson, basically just a giant runaround



by any chance does anyone have said disc they could put online in ISO  
format for me to grab for them?




Cheers

-JB

Re: [H] One of two 8800 GTS (SLI) on the fritz.. next move?

[James Boswell]

the GTS512 is actually faster than the GTS640 (it's a 128 shader part  
with higher clockspeeds, compared to the 96 shader... 500Mhz? of the  
GTS320/640)


ATI's 5870's should be dropping in two or three weeks, so I'd  
recommend waiting to see what that can do before spending any money.



On 26 Aug 2009, at 06:58, Veech wrote:




I had two EVGA e-Geforce 8800GTS running in SLI and one went bad, I  
think the RAM may have overheated.  So I pulled out the bad one and  
am now running with just one 8800 GTS.  So far it is fine for my  
purposes, but I've been out of the video-card market for almost 3  
years and am wondering what the next move should be.  I plan to  
contact EVGA and see if by any chance it is under warranty, I heard  
that it is possible that they may replace it although I don't know  
yet for sure.


I have an EVGA nForce 680i board and am running Win XP.

I see a similar card available at Amazon but it looks different  
than mine, probably a newer version.  Anyway it's $89.99 so even if  
I buy two of them, for $180 I could run two new 8800s in SLI.


edit:  I see it's the 512MB version of the card.  nevermind..


e-GeForce 8800 GTS P/N 640-P2-N821-AR serial 6088212000644  640MB  
PCI-E


What do you folks recommend, is 8800 GTS old tech now, is there  
something else much better for about the same price that would work  
for PCI-E?


thnaks

Re: [H] One of two 8800 GTS (SLI) on the fritz.. next move?

[James Boswell]

Well, one of them will, a pair won't function in crossfire though.

On 26 Aug 2009, at 17:39, Veech wrote:

hmm..  ATI?  Interesting, I'm hoping/assuming the ATI cards will  
work ok on an nVidia mobo?



- Original Message - From: James Boswell torazch...@gmail.com 


To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 02:41
Subject: Re: [H] One of two 8800 GTS (SLI) on the fritz.. next move?


the GTS512 is actually faster than the GTS640 (it's a 128 shader  
part with higher clockspeeds, compared to the 96 shader... 500Mhz?  
of the GTS320/640)


ATI's 5870's should be dropping in two or three weeks, so I'd   
recommend waiting to see what that can do before spending any money.



On 26 Aug 2009, at 06:58, Veech wrote:




I had two EVGA e-Geforce 8800GTS running in SLI and one went bad,  
I think the RAM may have overheated.  So I pulled out the bad one  
and  am now running with just one 8800 GTS.  So far it is fine  
for my  purposes, but I've been out of the video-card market for  
almost 3  years and am wondering what the next move should be.  I  
plan to  contact EVGA and see if by any chance it is under  
warranty, I heard  that it is possible that they may replace it  
although I don't know  yet for sure.


I have an EVGA nForce 680i board and am running Win XP.

I see a similar card available at Amazon but it looks different   
than mine, probably a newer version.  Anyway it's $89.99 so even  
if  I buy two of them, for $180 I could run two new 8800s in SLI.


edit:  I see it's the 512MB version of the card.  nevermind..


e-GeForce 8800 GTS P/N 640-P2-N821-AR serial 6088212000644   
640MB  PCI-E


What do you folks recommend, is 8800 GTS old tech now, is there  
something else much better for about the same price that would  
work  for PCI-E?


thnaks

Re: [H] Question of solid state drives

[James Boswell]

The pauses are due to poor jmicron controller logic, nothing inherent to the
type of flash

-JB

On Jul 23, 2009 5:34 PM, Robert Martin Jr. lopa...@pacbell.net wrote:

MLC drives are usually cheaper and easier to make, but with generally less
performance than SLC and quite a bit less expensive. Anandtech has a couple
good articles listing price/performance of the various SSD's. I'm using OCX
Vertex (newer firmware) on 2 boxes and they are pretty fast and inexpensive.
I also have 2 MLC drives (trancend  a generic) that are very slooow and
have frequent pauses that commonly plagued the 1st gen SSDs.

lopaka


--- On Thu, 7/23/09, Thane Sherrington th...@computerconnectionltd.com
wrote:

From: Thane Sherrington th...@computerconnectionltd.com

Subject: [H] Question of solid state drives
To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com
Date: Thursday, July 23, 2009, 3:20 AM

I was reading a review of the new Intel MLC drive, and he says The real
strength of the Intel driv...

Re: [H] Windows 7 RC is out for download

[James Boswell]

Um, this is very old news dude?

On 19 Jul 2009, at 14:17, Brian Weeden wrote:


http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/download.aspx

---
Brian Weeden
Technical Advisor
Secure World Foundation http://www.secureworldfoundation.org
+1 (514) 466-2756 Canada
+1 (202) 683-8534 US

Re: [H] [Fwd: Anybody Ever Hear of This....]

[James Boswell]

So you don't even have an HT aware computer?

well, I certainly won't be bothering with any of THEIR products.. good  
grief!


On 4 Jul 2009, at 11:33, Steve Tomporowski wrote:

Sorry, forgot to mention that I have an E8500 in a Gigabyte GA-EP45- 
UD3P Motherboard.




__ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus  
signature database 4193 (20090626) __


The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

http://www.eset.com

Re: [H] OSX on PC Hardware

[James Boswell]

I'm running OSX 10.5.7 on :-

Asus P5K-E/Wifi-AP
Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550 @ 3.78Ghz
8GB (4x2GB) OCZ DDR2-800 @ 891Mhz
HIS Radeon 4890 1GB
2x 500GB WD HDD's (1x scratch, 1x Time Machine)
1x 500GB Seagate HDD (presently OSX boot drive)
1x 750GB Samsung HDD (Vista)
Lg Super Multi-Blu + Samsung DVDRW

It's a BOOT-132/Chameleon install, so the OSX install itself is  
native and the hacks are all applied by the bootloader (so software  
update works flawlessly, even the 10.5.6  10.5.7 update)



It hauls ass, feels as quick as any real Mac, until you hit it with  
something that can really make a Mac Pro stretch its legs (as I've  
only got 4 cores), even then the 4890 pulls its weight for things like  
Aperture and Final Cut filters.



I've also put OSX on an i7 rig for a friend, and that thing... is  
simply WOW, I suspect there are very few moments where it won't blow  
the sidepanel off a full blooded nehelem Mac Pro


Might be something to do with this though...
https://photos-4.getdropbox.com/i/l/1F7CeoKfpTt7PlM9OlXEk0ZuR-YotULw4_mL1l2ZC3w 
#12


- Partial assembled rig - https://photos-1.getdropbox.com/i/l/lUURdDq1OyRc2zlmtboM6ia1luoMhmEdUZXKelcTzCk 
#5


That Gigabyte GA-X58-UD5 is a REALLY REALLY good board for  
hackintoshing, there's even a script that'll completely set up the OS  
boot-132 style on the thing.



On 1 Jul 2009, at 18:36, Mesdaq, Ali wrote:

Anyone on the list done anything with running OSX on off the shelf  
PC Hardware?

http://wiki.osx86project.org/
If so what's performance like? Is it worth it to try to build a  
badass OSX box or is it just worth it to buy a Mac? Looking to do  
some audio work.


Thanks,
--
Ali Mesdaq (CISSP, GIAC-GREM)
Sr. Security Researcher
Websense Security Labs
http://www.WebsenseSecurityLabs.com
--




Protected by Websense Hosted Email Security -- www.websense.com

Re: [H] OSX on PC Hardware

[James Boswell]

a Mac Pro is an 8-core/16 thread Xeon rig with 6 channels of DDR3, so  
yeah, it takes a hell of a lot to outrun one when it's in its comfort  
zone.


however a fast i7 box will keep up with or outrun the cheaper quad  
core Mac Pro implementation... whilst likely being cheaper.


On 2 Jul 2009, at 05:26, Mesdaq, Ali wrote:

Ok I am jealous! So even with that configuration you still feel that  
a mac pro can beat it performance wise? I am wondering if there is a  
cutoff where the PC hardware beats the mac for performance and is  
still cheaper to the point where it's worth the extra hassle to  
setup a pc mac instead of buying a real mac.


Thanks,
--
Ali Mesdaq (CISSP, GIAC-GREM)
Sr. Security Researcher
Websense Security Labs
http://www.WebsenseSecurityLabs.com
--


-Original Message-
From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com [mailto:hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com 
] On Behalf Of James Boswell

Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 11:26 AM
To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com
Subject: Re: [H] OSX on PC Hardware

I'm running OSX 10.5.7 on :-

Asus P5K-E/Wifi-AP
Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550 @ 3.78Ghz
8GB (4x2GB) OCZ DDR2-800 @ 891Mhz
HIS Radeon 4890 1GB
2x 500GB WD HDD's (1x scratch, 1x Time Machine)
1x 500GB Seagate HDD (presently OSX boot drive)
1x 750GB Samsung HDD (Vista)
Lg Super Multi-Blu + Samsung DVDRW

It's a BOOT-132/Chameleon install, so the OSX install itself is
native and the hacks are all applied by the bootloader (so software
update works flawlessly, even the 10.5.6  10.5.7 update)


It hauls ass, feels as quick as any real Mac, until you hit it with
something that can really make a Mac Pro stretch its legs (as I've
only got 4 cores), even then the 4890 pulls its weight for things like
Aperture and Final Cut filters.


I've also put OSX on an i7 rig for a friend, and that thing... is
simply WOW, I suspect there are very few moments where it won't blow
the sidepanel off a full blooded nehelem Mac Pro

Might be something to do with this though...
https://photos-4.getdropbox.com/i/l/1F7CeoKfpTt7PlM9OlXEk0ZuR-YotULw4_mL1l2ZC3w
#12

- Partial assembled rig - 
https://photos-1.getdropbox.com/i/l/lUURdDq1OyRc2zlmtboM6ia1luoMhmEdUZXKelcTzCk
#5

That Gigabyte GA-X58-UD5 is a REALLY REALLY good board for
hackintoshing, there's even a script that'll completely set up the OS
boot-132 style on the thing.


On 1 Jul 2009, at 18:36, Mesdaq, Ali wrote:


Anyone on the list done anything with running OSX on off the shelf
PC Hardware?
http://wiki.osx86project.org/
If so what's performance like? Is it worth it to try to build a
badass OSX box or is it just worth it to buy a Mac? Looking to do
some audio work.

Thanks,
--
Ali Mesdaq (CISSP, GIAC-GREM)
Sr. Security Researcher
Websense Security Labs
http://www.WebsenseSecurityLabs.com
--




Protected by Websense Hosted Email Security -- www.websense.com

Re: [H] x48 v p45 ?

[James Boswell]

On 2 Jun 2009, at 01:00, Stan Zaske wrote:

SDRAM---DDR---DDR2---DDR3=more bandwidth, more latency, lower  
voltage and lower heat. After a decade and dozens if not hundreds of  
hardware reviews that show minimal to no real world performance  
improvements (synthetic? Uh huh!) DDR3 is another solution to a  
problem that doesn't exist. Only when speeds get well above DDR3  
2500 will there be significant and noticeable speed improvement.


DDR3-1600 is a very significant improvement over DDR2-800... the issue  
is that Core 2's are hooked up to memory controllers the other side of  
the an FSB, the IMC in the i7 delivers... heroic bandwidth from DDR3



The problem does exist, but the memory always always ALWAYS comes  
before its needed, in this case it came in the middle of the Core 2  
generation, when it wasn't needed or useful until i7


One exception to this is DDR memory coming with the Athlon (huge  
performance kick)



-JB

Re: [H] [Bulk] Re: x48 v p45 ?

[James Boswell]

Well, the issue there is that I can't benchmark an i7 with DDR2

and as I've said already, due to the FSB bottleneck, it really is  
completely useless on a Core 2


On 2 Jun 2009, at 01:30, Stan Zaske wrote:

Can you get me a link to a good hardware review that show these real  
world performance improvements that you're talking about? As I said,  
I've been reading hardware reviews for many years on this subject  
and see no hard evidence to back what you're saying. Synthetic  
benchmarks always show an improvement in bandwidth but when you use  
practical software applications and do comparisons there is minimal  
if any difference in speed. Certainly nothing that a human beings  
perception could detect.



James Boswell wrote:


On 2 Jun 2009, at 01:00, Stan Zaske wrote:

SDRAM---DDR---DDR2---DDR3=more bandwidth, more latency, lower  
voltage and lower heat. After a decade and dozens if not hundreds  
of hardware reviews that show minimal to no real world performance  
improvements (synthetic? Uh huh!) DDR3 is another solution to a  
problem that doesn't exist. Only when speeds get well above DDR3  
2500 will there be significant and noticeable speed improvement.


DDR3-1600 is a very significant improvement over DDR2-800... the  
issue is that Core 2's are hooked up to memory controllers the  
other side of the an FSB, the IMC in the i7 delivers... heroic  
bandwidth from DDR3



The problem does exist, but the memory always always ALWAYS comes  
before its needed, in this case it came in the middle of the Core 2  
generation, when it wasn't needed or useful until i7


One exception to this is DDR memory coming with the Athlon (huge  
performance kick)



-JB

Re: [H] [Bulk] Re: x48 v p45 ?

[James Boswell]

On 2 Jun 2009, at 02:12:030, Stan Zaske wrote:
DDR3 is currently too slow and has too high a latency to demonstrate  
a clear performance advantage over DDR2 and it was the same exact  
situation during the transition from DDR to DDR2 several years ago  
as I'm sure you must remember. It was severely hyped and when the  
benchmarking began it was a huge disappointment to hardware  
enthusiasts hoping for something great. I know I was disappointed  
after all the BS.


are you sure on the latency front? since the real world latency of  
8-8-8 timing DDR3-1600 is the effectively the same as DDR2-800  
4-4-4... and there's even 7-8-7 timing DDR2-2000 available right at  
the top end, thats real world latencies lower than DDR2 has _ever_ had  
unless I'm very much mistaken ?



-JB

Re: [H] Monitor Calibration Tools

[James Boswell]

I use a Datacolor Spyder3Elite, and having experienced the joys of  
hardware colour calibration, I wouldn't be without it.


On 29 May 2009, at 05:07, Veech wrote:

What do you folks use to calibrate new monitor settings?  I just got  
a Dell 2408 FPW and want to test for banding, grayscale etc, and  
also tweak the settings some.


thanks

Re: [H] testing overlclock

[James Boswell]

On 18 May 2009, at 00:07:540, Winterlight wrote:


What is the best freeware app to test an overclocked CPU?

prime95's torture test is VERY good for such tests, as it not only  
loads the thing, but also makes sure its doing its sums right :)

Re: [H] CPU vs CPU

[James Boswell]

What? World Of Warcraft should ABSOLUTELY FLY on a machine of that spec.


On 23 Apr 2009, at 20:24, Joe User wrote:


Hello guys,

 I have on my current gaming rig an E6850 with 4 GB RAM. I also
 have a ATI 4870. I mainly play World of Warcraft and it's in a
 high end guild environment. So performance is key.

 I bought this 4870 hoping to get mass performance gains but that
 just didn't happen. I have since found out the game is CPU
 bound. So... I want max speed. I have settings set as low as
 possible except for what is needed to be higher.

 I assume the card is pretty high end but the rest of my rig is
 lacking. Would I see major (or better yet - worthwhile  
performance

 for price) benefit from upgrading the CPU to an i7 range?


--
Regards,
joeuser - Still looking for the 'any' key...

...now these points of data make a beautiful line...

Re: [H] sp3

[James Boswell]

As I recall there actually isn't a service pack 3 for XP x64 at all,  
as its patch history is out of sync with XP ?



-JB

On 20 Apr 2009, at 23:38, FORC5 wrote:

need to slip stream a xp64 disk and was wondering if it uses the  
same sp3 patch that xp32 uses ?


thanks
fp

--
Tallyho ! ]:8)
Taglines below !
--
Real programmers use punched cards.

Re: [H] SATA port multipliers?

[James Boswell]

It's for a general purpose box, some media viewing, bit of light CUDA  
fiddling (hence it's getting a GTS250 rather than a 4850)


It's actually for the same client that had the SFF we jokingly refer  
to as mediumfast last October ( see http://maximumfast.net/ 
newbuild/ ), so this project is Mini-Mediumfast, it'll be a bit down  
on cpu and gpu grunt... (C2Q @ 3.2Ghz to C2Q at 2.33Ghz and 4870-1GB  
to GTS250-1GB respectively) but not all that far down in the grand  
scheme of things.


He's got me doing preliminary specifications for something we've given  
the codename Full Metal Cowbell for sometime around mid May, and  
that that is a PC with no punches pulled... or budget restrictions.
I have to say, I have mixed feelings about that, it'll be EPIC to  
build and setup and go 'holy hell this this fast'
and then hugely depressing when I'm back on only a 3.8Ghz C2Q with  
8GB of ram and an 8800GTX... and only platter based storage!


heh.

I'll probably be building a few Zotac/SG05 rigs, as a number of people  
have gone aww, it's s sweet, but only one has  
the wants an SSD + big platters + optical drive awkwardness. :p


-JB

On 11 Apr 2009, at 00:16, maccrawj wrote:

It's never ceases to amaze me what people try to cram into smaller  
spaces. Assuming this is a for HTPC, not a game box?


Good luck  LOL!



Robert Martin Jr. wrote:
Hey guys, I've got a client wanting a machine in a Silverstone SG05  
case (
http://www.silverstonetek.com/products/p_contents.php?pno=sg05area=usa 
 ),
and the current leading candidate for the mainboard is the Zotac  
9300-ITX (
http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/16642 ), the basic objective  
being to cram
as much power as possible (with a bit of an eye toward value, he's  
held off

on the 3Ghz core 2 Quad at least) into as small a space as possible.

Re: [H] SATA port multipliers?

[James Boswell]

Thanks, that's a tremendous help :)

Any pointers on where to find a small usb to sata adapter that doesn't  
require it's own power brick?
I've had a scout around and all I can find are kits intended to be  
used externally


On 10 Apr 2009, at 04:05, Robert Martin Jr. wrote:

I'd use a USB to SATA adapter off one of the internal usb headers  
for the blu-ray drive. Use one of these to keep it tidy. You'll also  
need a slim sata to sata cable


http://cgi.ebay.com/12%22-305m-Slimline-SATA-Cable-Slim-Drive-CRX890S,AD7670S_W0QQitemZ130296426485QQcmdZViewItem

http://www.logicsupply.com/products/afap_082usb

I've done a few systems using zotac ITX mobos

lopaka
--- On Thu, 4/9/09, James Boswell torazch...@gmail.com wrote:
From: James Boswell torazch...@gmail.com
Subject: [H]  SATA port multipliers?
To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com
Date: Thursday, April 9, 2009, 5:05 PM

Hey guys, I've got a client wanting a machine in a Silverstone SG05  
case (
http://www.silverstonetek.com/products/p_contents.php?pno=sg05area=usa 
 ),
and the current leading candidate for the mainboard is the Zotac  
9300-ITX (
http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/16642 ), the basic objective  
being to cram
as much power as possible (with a bit of an eye toward value, he's  
held off

on the 3Ghz core 2 Quad at least) into as small a space as possible.

the snag that arises is, the SG05 has 1x slimline optical bay, 1x  
2.5 HDD

bay and 1x 3.5 HDD bay


Client would _like_ an SSD as the boot drive in the 2.5 bay, a big  
data
storage disk in the 3.5 bay and a Blu-ray burner (!) in the optical  
bay,
however the Zotac mainboard only has two SATA ports (and one ESATA  
on the back)


So, to make that config happen I need the Nvidia 9300M chipset to  
play nice
with port multipliers (and apparently that's quite hit and miss?),  
AND a
tiny port multiplier that'll run off the internal power, or a USB to  
SATA
convertor I can hang off the internal USB ports (and power  
internally also.)


(the esata port is wanted for other uses, and so is off limits for  
one of the
internal drives, on top of that being a horrifically clunky cabling  
job)


Suggestions?
I know I'm after something that's possible from a technical  
standpoint,
but it's something extremely niche, so I'm not  
hopeful,
but maybe someone else on the list has some idea if I'm barking up  
the wrong

tree, or indeed barking up any tree at all?

TIA
-JB

[H] SATA port multipliers?

[James Boswell]

Hey guys, I've got a client wanting a machine in a Silverstone SG05  
case ( http://www.silverstonetek.com/products/p_contents.php?pno=sg05area=usa 
 ), and the current leading candidate for the mainboard is the Zotac  
9300-ITX ( http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/16642 ), the basic  
objective being to cram as much power as possible (with a bit of an  
eye toward value, he's held off on the 3Ghz core 2 Quad at least) into  
as small a space as possible.


the snag that arises is, the SG05 has 1x slimline optical bay, 1x 2.5  
HDD bay and 1x 3.5 HDD bay



Client would _like_ an SSD as the boot drive in the 2.5 bay, a big  
data storage disk in the 3.5 bay and a Blu-ray burner (!) in the  
optical bay, however the Zotac mainboard only has two SATA ports (and  
one ESATA on the back)


So, to make that config happen I need the Nvidia 9300M chipset to play  
nice with port multipliers (and apparently that's quite hit and  
miss?), AND a tiny port multiplier that'll run off the internal power,  
or a USB to SATA convertor I can hang off the internal USB ports (and  
power internally also.)


(the esata port is wanted for other uses, and so is off limits for one  
of the internal drives, on top of that being a horrifically clunky  
cabling job)


Suggestions?
I know I'm after something that's possible from a technical  
standpoint, but it's something extremely niche, so I'm  
not hopeful, but maybe someone else on the list has some idea if I'm  
barking up the wrong tree, or indeed barking up any tree at all?


TIA
-JB

Re: [H] web cam ?

[James Boswell]

I've got a Logitech Ultra Vision and it's really rather good :D

On 2 Mar 2009, at 22:15:260, FORC5 wrote:


need recommendations and suggestions on a good quality web cam..

Thanks
fp

--
Tallyho ! ]:8)
Taglines below !
--
Cyberspace forever and ever and ever.

Re: [H] DVD/CD Burner-SATA ? PS

[James Boswell]

optical drives have been able to output audio over the databus for a  
good decade or more, there's no need whatsoever to run a separate  
cable from the drive to the sound hardware these days.


On 2 Mar 2009, at 23:35:130, DHSinclair wrote:


Thanks FORC5,
I will dig a bit deeper at the Egg into specs and what comes in the  
box.


OK, I think I may go with this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106287

But, when I look at the back end, I notice that there is NO output  
for Audio.

What have I missed?
Am I looking at a dedicated burner that can not read/play a music  
CD also?

Or, is there something else about SATA I do not understand?
Or, ???
Just a bit confused now.
Best,
Duncan

At 16:08 03/02/2009 -0700, FORC5 wrote:

meant to say they come with BOTH, not all models
fp

At 04:07 PM 3/2/2009, FORC5 Poked the stick with:
liteon has models that come with black or white faces, I usually  
buy those for customers

fp

At 04:05 PM 3/2/2009, DHSinclair Poked the stick with:
Bobby,
went and looked. Newegg shows this item as deactivated. Also,  
it only shows a 50% happy rating.  OK, was really looking for a  
white/beige face too. :)
Yes, in the old days I too was a Plextor fan-boy!  But, that was  
back in my scsi-days!

Thanks,
Duncan

At 17:50 03/02/2009 -0500, you wrote:
I used to always use Plextor.  But my last several drives have  
been Lite-On.
I just finished my new build this w/e and I have 2 Lite-On DVD  
(bought last

summer) writers in it.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106073


Thanks,
Bobby

-Original Message-
From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com
[mailto:hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of  
DHSinclair

Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 5:31 PM
To: Hardware Group
Subject: [H] DVD/CD Burner-SATA ?

Looking for opinions/suggestions for SATA DVD/CD burner devices.
Have several PATA devices I would like to retire as spares for  
my remaining

2 Pata machines.
Not too happy with the SATA/PATA converters I have; would like  
to toss them

out and go straight SATA.
I do understand the 1.5Gbit/3.0Gbit differences, but do not  
think this is

an issue ATM.
Blinding speed is not required; reliability and/or general  
quality is.

I need 3.

Thanks,
Duncan




__ NOD32 3901 (20090302) Information __

This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.eset.com

--
Tallyho ! ]:8)
Taglines below !
--
Celibacy isn't hereditary. Your children force it on you.

--
Tallyho ! ]:8)
Taglines below !
--
Celibacy isn't hereditary. Your children force it on you.


__ NOD32 3902 (20090302) Information __

This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.eset.com

Re: [H] DVD/CD Burner-SATA ? PS

[James Boswell]

well, the audio is basically read off the disk as data and then gets  
to the sound hardware by way of the PCI bus :p

or ISA bus... whatever bus floats your boat.

On 2 Mar 2009, at 23:57:330, DHSinclair wrote:


James,
Thank you. I was not aware of this.  I suspected this must be true,  
but felt the need to ask yet another stupid question.. :)
Does this also work for machines that do NOT have on-board sound  
processing?  How does sound get to dedicated add-in sound cards?


OK, I will continue shopping for SATA.
Best,
Duncan

At 23:45 03/02/2009 +, you wrote:

optical drives have been able to output audio over the databus for a
good decade or more, there's no need whatsoever to run a separate
cable from the drive to the sound hardware these days.

On 2 Mar 2009, at 23:35:130, DHSinclair wrote:


Thanks FORC5,
I will dig a bit deeper at the Egg into specs and what comes in the
box.

OK, I think I may go with this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106287

But, when I look at the back end, I notice that there is NO output
for Audio.
What have I missed?
Am I looking at a dedicated burner that can not read/play a music
CD also?
Or, is there something else about SATA I do not understand?
Or, ???
Just a bit confused now.
Best,
Duncan

At 16:08 03/02/2009 -0700, FORC5 wrote:

meant to say they come with BOTH, not all models
fp

At 04:07 PM 3/2/2009, FORC5 Poked the stick with:
liteon has models that come with black or white faces, I usually
buy those for customers
fp

At 04:05 PM 3/2/2009, DHSinclair Poked the stick with:
Bobby,
went and looked. Newegg shows this item as deactivated. Also,
it only shows a 50% happy rating.  OK, was really looking for a
white/beige face too. :)
Yes, in the old days I too was a Plextor fan-boy!  But, that was
back in my scsi-days!
Thanks,
Duncan

At 17:50 03/02/2009 -0500, you wrote:
I used to always use Plextor.  But my last several drives have
been Lite-On.
I just finished my new build this w/e and I have 2 Lite-On DVD
(bought last
summer) writers in it.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106073


Thanks,
Bobby

-Original Message-
From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com
[mailto:hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of
DHSinclair
Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 5:31 PM
To: Hardware Group
Subject: [H] DVD/CD Burner-SATA ?

Looking for opinions/suggestions for SATA DVD/CD burner devices.
Have several PATA devices I would like to retire as spares for
my remaining
2 Pata machines.
Not too happy with the SATA/PATA converters I have; would like
to toss them
out and go straight SATA.
I do understand the 1.5Gbit/3.0Gbit differences, but do not
think this is
an issue ATM.
Blinding speed is not required; reliability and/or general
quality is.
I need 3.

Thanks,
Duncan




__ NOD32 3901 (20090302) Information __

This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.eset.com

--
Tallyho ! ]:8)
Taglines below !
--
Celibacy isn't hereditary. Your children force it on you.

--
Tallyho ! ]:8)
Taglines below !
--
Celibacy isn't hereditary. Your children force it on you.


__ NOD32 3902 (20090302) Information __

This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.eset.com



__ NOD32 3902 (20090302) Information __

This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
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Re: [H] Linksys routers

[James Boswell]

Mini is targetted at the later model WRT54G/GS that only have 2MB of  
flash memory, the GL will take DD-WRT or Tomato without problems. ?


On 16 Feb 2009, at 17:58:070, maccrawj wrote:

mini indicates exactly what I talking about which is they halved the  
memory for some stupid reason. While mini will get you by it's not  
the optimal solution and there are vendors like Asus  Buffalo that  
will run the full versions.


Richard Kim wrote:
My suggestion is to get the Linksys WRT54GL, if you can find them,  
which is
basically a revised WRT54g v4. It is still linux based and you can  
easily

update with mini-DDWRT. I use three of them at various locations with
absolutely no problems.
-Original Message-
From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com
[mailto:hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of maccrawj
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 5:17 AM
To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com
Subject: Re: [H] Linksys routers
Linksys screwed up after the WRT54GS around ver. 4 or so AFAIK. If  
I was to
look too buy a replacement today I'd be checking the list of  
supported devices for

DD-WRT, OpenWRT,  Tomato.

Re: [H] Vista Ultimate ?

[James Boswell]

vista has separate install media for 32 and 64 bits

the license key determines which version of Vista it is (Home Basic/ 
Premium/Business/Ultimate) but the media determines the bitness  
(bittedness?)


On 18 Dec 2008, at 00:28, FORC5 wrote:

Does Vista in all it's wisdom detect 32/64 bit cpu and install  
accordingly ? or are there two versions like with XP ?


May need to update my server HW for some beta testing with Vista or  
even xp64. Have xp64 and Vista Ultimate just not sure if it swings  
both ways or not. :-|


Any ideas ?
Fp

--
Tallyho ! ]:8)
Taglines below !
--
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free  
State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be  
infringed.


Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

Re: [H] Memory problems?

[James Boswell]

Do all the caps on the mainboard look okay?

On 17 Dec 2008, at 01:27, nobozoz wrote:


I have a Dell Precision WorkStation 350.

OS:  WINXPSP3
VIDEO:   nVidia Quado4 900XGL
CPU: P4, 3.0 GHz
Memory:  4x256MB, RIMM

I'm experiencing random lockups 2~3 times per day. The display  
freezes up, mouse frozen, CTRL+ALT+DEL doesn't work - I have to cold  
boot to get it going again. CPU temp ~52C, HDD temp ~35C, amb temp  
~42C (case is closed). There is no indication of overheating, the  
Event Viewer is devoid of anything suspicious. There is almost no  
load on the machine when it freezes. I run WHQL drivers from NVIDIA.


I'm starting to suspect the RIMM memory. I am currently running  
Microsoft Memory Diagnostic found here:


(http://oca.microsoft.com/en/windiag.asp#top)

This being the only Rambus PC I have (or ever will have) I don't  
have many options for hardware swapping to try and ferret out this  
problem and the cost of replacement RIMMs is more than the rest of  
the machine is worth.


Any ideas appreciated.

Jim

Re: [H] My sincere apologies!

[James Boswell]

The soundcard can output audio over HDMI (with an adaptor on the DVI  
port), the HD Audio driver is for that.


On 5 Dec 2008, at 17:20, DHSinclair wrote:


(picture list member genuflecting and sweating!)

Collective,
Yes, I can be very thick; some might say stupid!  This am I upgraded  
my new test platform from w2k to winXPproSP3. The upgrade went so  
smooth, I thought I'd done something wrong!
And, after ~37 winUpdates, I was able to finally install drivers for  
the ATI Radeon R4350!


OK, I am convinced.  I will now move to WinXPpro!  I now have 12  
months of flawless service from my XP test machine and it is also as  
solid as a brick!  Now willing to give up W2KproSP4 except for my  
server.  Can not afford the new version yet...next year!


Bottom line: the new toys in the new box are fully operational and  
running as expected. Zero glitches; except for ATI wishing to load  
some driver for HD Audio. Does this video card have an HD Audio  
section?  (The P5Q3 is already happily running its' Realtek HD Audio  
stuff.)  Stuff for more reading.

Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.

One down, 2 to go!

Duncan

Re: [H] My sincere apologies!

[James Boswell]

HMDI is a single cable digital link carrying both audio and video to a  
HDTV


I typo'd and meant to say videocard in my initial reply, the  
VIDEOcard can generate audio and deploy it over HDMI


It won't interfere with the realtek audio.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI


Recall also that the 3450 has ATI's AVIVO universal video decoder  
built in, full h264 and VC1 decoding in hardware.

It's basically a fire and forget media center solution.

On 5 Dec 2008, at 18:38, DHSinclair wrote:


JB,
Yes, I get this, but why does my ATI Video driver CD wish to install  
another HD Audio something when I have already fully enabled the on- 
board (HD) Audio system of the m/b?
You use the term HDMI - to me that means something Video-focused;  
or, am I still sadly confused with all these new toys?


The is my real confusion.  Perhaps company grumble?  I'd like to  
allow it, but I do not want it to install and interfere with current  
RealTek on-board audio system. It is tested, set-up and works very  
well.

Duncan


At 18:05 12/05/2008 +, you wrote:

The soundcard can output audio over HDMI (with an adaptor on the DVI
port), the HD Audio driver is for that.

On 5 Dec 2008, at 17:20, DHSinclair wrote:


(picture list member genuflecting and sweating!)

Collective,
Yes, I can be very thick; some might say stupid!  This am I upgraded
my new test platform from w2k to winXPproSP3. The upgrade went so
smooth, I thought I'd done something wrong!
And, after ~37 winUpdates, I was able to finally install drivers for
the ATI Radeon R4350!

OK, I am convinced.  I will now move to WinXPpro!  I now have 12
months of flawless service from my XP test machine and it is also as
solid as a brick!  Now willing to give up W2KproSP4 except for my
server.  Can not afford the new version yet...next year!

Bottom line: the new toys in the new box are fully operational and
running as expected. Zero glitches; except for ATI wishing to load
some driver for HD Audio. Does this video card have an HD Audio
section?  (The P5Q3 is already happily running its' Realtek HD Audio
stuff.)  Stuff for more reading.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.

One down, 2 to go!

Duncan

Re: [H] New video card works!

[James Boswell]

On 5 Dec 2008, at 19:16, DHSinclair wrote:


JB,
OK, on the next nag msg, I will install it to get rid of the yellow  
other devices object in the CP/DM.


Yes, I comprehend the HDMI interface. I have seen it on many of the  
higher level video cards.
The 4350 does not have one. It has a VGA interface and a DVI  
inteface, the 4670 just has 2 DVI interfaces; I have DVI-VGA adapters


ATI make/supply with many cards a DVI to HDMI adaptor, and through  
that adaptor the audio is carried also.




Something along the way got really confused!  The weak new video  
card is the R4350/512.  The one not-yet-test is the R4670/512.  I'd  
swear that I ordered the 3450, but the 4350 arrived (and is burning  
trons as I type!).


Really sorry for this huge confusion!!!
Best,
Duncan


At 18:47 12/05/2008 +, you wrote:
HMDI is a single cable digital link carrying both audio and video  
to a

HDTV

I typo'd and meant to say videocard in my initial reply, the
VIDEOcard can generate audio and deploy it over HDMI

It won't interfere with the realtek audio.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI


Recall also that the 3450 has ATI's AVIVO universal video decoder
built in, full h264 and VC1 decoding in hardware.
It's basically a fire and forget media center solution.

On 5 Dec 2008, at 18:38, DHSinclair wrote:


JB,
Yes, I get this, but why does my ATI Video driver CD wish to install
another HD Audio something when I have already fully enabled the  
on- board (HD) Audio system of the m/b?

You use the term HDMI - to me that means something Video-focused;
or, am I still sadly confused with all these new toys?

The is my real confusion.  Perhaps company grumble?  I'd like to
allow it, but I do not want it to install and interfere with current
RealTek on-board audio system. It is tested, set-up and works very
well.
Duncan


At 18:05 12/05/2008 +, you wrote:
The soundcard can output audio over HDMI (with an adaptor on the  
DVI

port), the HD Audio driver is for that.

On 5 Dec 2008, at 17:20, DHSinclair wrote:


(picture list member genuflecting and sweating!)

Collective,
Yes, I can be very thick; some might say stupid!  This am I  
upgraded

my new test platform from w2k to winXPproSP3. The upgrade went so
smooth, I thought I'd done something wrong!
And, after ~37 winUpdates, I was able to finally install drivers  
for

the ATI Radeon R4350!

OK, I am convinced.  I will now move to WinXPpro!  I now have 12
months of flawless service from my XP test machine and it is  
also as

solid as a brick!  Now willing to give up W2KproSP4 except for my
server.  Can not afford the new version yet...next  
year!


Bottom line: the new toys in the new box are fully operational and
running as expected. Zero glitches; except for ATI wishing to load
some driver for HD Audio. Does this video card have an HD Audio
section?  (The P5Q3 is already happily running its' Realtek HD  
Audio

stuff.)  Stuff for more reading.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.

One down, 2 to go!

Duncan

Re: [H] New 20 wide screen here!

[James Boswell]

You do realise that a panel with 1050 pixels on the vertical axis  
won't actually be able to display 1200 pixels of height? if it'll even  
take the signal it'll have to randomly lose detail from somewhere.


why not just output 1680x1050 (which is 16:10 btw, not 16:9) to it???

On 4 Dec 2008, at 20:22, DHSinclair wrote:

I have been using a ViewSonic VA721 17 flat panel.  I assume that  
its' aspect ratio is 4:3.  I use it at a resolution of 1024x768  
(which is its' native resolution).  It will do other higher  
resolutions also.


The replacement (new) panel is a 20 wide-screen flat panel. Its'  
native resolution is 1680x1050. And I suppose this panel is  
configured for a 16:9 aspect ratio as normal.  I plan to try a  
1600x1200 res with it.  Believe the desktop will be squashed top-to- 
bottom (1050/1200).  Am I close?


I have searched the web since I ordered trying to find out what sort  
of video presentation I can expect. What I'd like to know is:

Desktop normal but at left side with black bar on the right.
Desktop normal but at right side with black bar on left side.
Desktop centered with black bars on the left and right sides.

Would enjoy your thoughts.  I am unpacking it ATM.
Thank you,
Duncan

Re: [H] ATI 3450--Need Help!

[James Boswell]

um, ATI.com doesn't appear to _have_ drivers for Windows 2000 for the  
3450 ?


On 4 Dec 2008, at 00:48:300, DHSinclair wrote:


OK, my new MSI ATI Radeon 3450 arrived today.

I did remove my test Matrox PCI G200 per proper removal. Shut-down  
and pulled the G200.

(The ATI CD is in the reader.)
I installed the 3450 per the directions.
Power the PC on.
It did light up!  The card works...
That ends the good news.

I can not load drivers for it!  I keep getting error msgs about  
Vista 64. WTF.(?)
The widows say I loaded the drivers, but so far NO Soap! Screen res  
remains 640x480.

My OS is W2Kpro SP4.

The driver pop-ups keep talking about HD Audio drivers that I do not  
wish to load.  I am using the RealTek on-board audio supplied by the  
Asus P5Q3.


So, I went to ATI and dl'd the last/latest driver for w2kpro.  It  
will not work either!  The process dies because it can NOT find a  
proper dot-inf file..  I am greatly confused now.
nVidia NEVER did this.  Sorry.  But, at the moment, ATI is not  
making me a happy camper.


Any clues or help will be greatly appreciated!
If I can not get this card to load, I am back again to nVidia.
Thank you,
Duncan

Re: [H] ATI 3450--Need Help!

[James Boswell]

What pushes you to vista exactly? the 3450 DOES have drivers for XP

On 4 Dec 2008, at 01:54, DHSinclair wrote:


JB,
Yes, perhaps this might be part of this current kurfuffle.
Fine.  I can accept this; but, I will not be driven by a video card  
mfg to
an OS upgrade to Vista just to play with the card!  That just suckx  
in my book.
The folks that play Vista and live happy, fine. I salute you. Live  
well and prosper!
I've lived through the past 3 years of bitching about Vista.  I  
choose NO!
I live with w2kproSP4 and XPproSP3.  If ATI does not care for this,  
I have a

fall back plan.  It is called nVidia!
Best,
Duncan

At 01:02 12/04/2008 +, you wrote:

um, ATI.com doesn't appear to _have_ drivers for Windows 2000 for the
3450 ?

On 4 Dec 2008, at 00:48:300, DHSinclair wrote:


OK, my new MSI ATI Radeon 3450 arrived today.

I did remove my test Matrox PCI G200 per proper removal. Shut-down
and pulled the G200.
(The ATI CD is in the reader.)
I installed the 3450 per the directions.
Power the PC on.
It did light up!  The card works...
That ends the good news.

I can not load drivers for it!  I keep getting error msgs about
Vista 64. WTF.(?)
The widows say I loaded the drivers, but so far NO Soap! Screen res
remains 640x480.
My OS is W2Kpro SP4.

The driver pop-ups keep talking about HD Audio drivers that I do not
wish to load.  I am using the RealTek on-board audio supplied by the
Asus P5Q3.

So, I went to ATI and dl'd the last/latest driver for w2kpro.  It
will not work either!  The process dies because it can NOT find a
proper dot-inf file..  I am greatly confused now.
nVidia NEVER did this.  Sorry.  But, at the moment, ATI is not
making me a happy camper.

Any clues or help will be greatly appreciated!
If I can not get this card to load, I am back again to nVidia.
Thank you,
Duncan

Re: [H] Opinions of this Dell panel?

[James Boswell]

that panel is a TN type, if you're used to Eizo grade gear you'll be  
hugely disappointed with it.


On 1 Dec 2008, at 16:33, DHSinclair wrote:


http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/products/Displays/productdetail.aspx?c=usl=ens=dhscs=19sku=320-5123

The price looks right. I know I need a better video card to do its'  
default res. Cards are on order.
Recall many good comments on Dell monitors. I have never used one; I  
do Eizo glass, or Viewsonic panels.

Thank you,
Duncan

Re: [H] Possible new video cards

[James Boswell]

Uh, you've run Nvidia graphics cards since 1980? when Nvidia's very  
first part was NV1, aka the Diamond Edge 3D circa 1995 or so?


On 25 Nov 2008, at 04:03, DHSinclair wrote:


Alex,
Thank you. I understand your value/performance metric. At this  
point, I would be happy to follow this path! It seems that the  
collective has soured on nVidia. Perhaps drivers, perhaps card  
architecture; I just do not know ATM.  All I know, is that the  
general push seems to be toward ATI.

I am playing stupid here.  I feel caught between 2 strong camps.

The last video card I did any serious research on with way back with  
the GeForce4 series cards.  I suspect a lot has changed/upgraded.  I  
have run nVidia video cards since ~1980.  I still run many.
But, the conventional wave seems to point to ATI ATM.  Have I missed  
something?

Thank you,
Duncan

At 19:35 11/24/2008 -0800, you wrote:
I was just giving other opinions for best bang for the buck based  
on budget.



In what way does Nvidia does not have their shit together? I'm not  
partial

to either brand, only to value-performance.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of DHSinclair
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 6:50 PM
To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com
Subject: Re: [H] Possible new video cards

Alex,
So, are you suggesting to blow off the 4670 and just focus on the  
4350

until I can afford the 4780?
Thank you for the link, but I may have drawn the wrong conclusion.   
I am
not opposed to an nVidia solution, but at the moment, it seems that  
nVidia

just does not have their sh** together.
Some words might help.
Best,
Duncan

At 13:49 11/24/2008 -0800, you wrote:
http://www.gpureview.com/superlatives.php


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of DHSinclair
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 11:50 AM
To: Hardware Group
Subject: [H] Possible new video cards

Seeking opinions. Thinking of ordering these 2 video cards.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127390

MSI 4350/512  ~$40.00 USD
This card would be used for bringing up new systems mostly. It  
could end up
being my primary office video card.  I do like the 'no-far'  
design.  And,
it seems to have nice mid-level power for what I do with my office  
machine.


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127383

MSI 4670/512  ~81.00 USD
This card would be used for my Gaming machine.  I just can not  
stretch the
dollars to the 4870 ATM. But, it is still a possibility; based on  
the

JoeUser search/research!
If this card works for gaming, I may even get another (or two) and  
use them

as my basic video card for the new P5Q3 m/b's.

Suggestion welcome. The plastic is buzzing. :)
Thank you,
Duncan

Re: [H] Video card upgrade time

[James Boswell]

It's also worth noting that most 4870's have 512MB of ram, there are  
1GB models out there however...


Meanwhile _all_ the 4870X2's have 1GB of ram per GPU, for a lovely  
warm fuzzy 2GB total


On 23 Nov 2008, at 05:09, maccrawj wrote:

Dunno cheap or faster but main advantage of X2's is there's only a  
single slot's space  bus lines tied up. This leaves room later for  
a second X2 down the road.




Joe User wrote:

Hello Stan,
Friday, November 21, 2008, 11:19:44 PM, you wrote:
As I've stated previously, I'm pro-AMD. Having said that you might  
be interested in this article.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3462

Excellent read, thanks for the link. Seems to me they give the nod to
the 4870 in the end. I could probably infer the 4870X2 would rock
also. I now have to consider would it be better (it would be cheaper)
to do two 4870's or just do the 4870X2? Hmmm
I have to say I am excited to give ATI a spin...

Re: [H] Observations of the new Intel PC

[James Boswell]

And as far as familiarity==comfort goes, XP behaves more or less  
exactly the same as Windows 2000 in most situations, at least after a  
few changes to the theme and the start menu settings.



On 21 Nov 2008, at 19:30, Greg Sevart wrote:

Oh, I wasn't trying to push Vista on you. I know full well that you  
have no
willingness to move that far. However, I think you would be doing  
yourself a

favor by at least moving to XP...since it is, afterall, still within
mainstream support. Win2k was fine when you were using hardware that  
was
released while it was still in mainstream support...but those days  
are gone.
I doubt that Intel with P45/ICH10, JMicron with the JMB636, or Asus  
with the
board as a whole did extensive validation with Win2k. That's the  
only point

I was trying to make.

Greg


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hardware-
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of DHSinclair
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 1:10 PM
To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com
Subject: Re: [H] Observations of the new Intel PC

Thank you Greg,
But let us just agree to disagree.  I fully accept that you use  
Vista.

You
remain the single, vocal, early Vista adopter that seems to have  
few/no

problems with Vista.  I do not get the same feeling of others in this
collective that use Vista.  Please, I do not wish to start another OS
war.  Different strokes, after all!

I fully accept that you feel my 9-year old OS could be causing some  
odd

issues. But, I will say that I have zero OS related problems in the 9
years
I have used w2kpro. W2k has been completely stable for my needs.  I
will
deal with any problems as I migrate my machines to WinXPpro.

But, I do appreciate your comment.
Duncan

  At 12:51 11/21/2008 -0600, you wrote:

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hardware-
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of DHSinclair
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 12:13 PM
To: Hardware Group
Subject: [H] Observations of the new Intel PC

dvdrom are AOK.  I did complete a fully patched w2ksp4 install.

The OS


I strongly suspect this to be the cause of most of the oddities and

issues
you've encountered. Running a 9-year-old OS on 6-month-old  
hardware is

just

asking for odd issues...


Greg

Re: [H] Seeking links to SATA/EIDE converters?

[James Boswell]

for $19 or so each for convertors surely you're better off just...  
buying new optical drives that are native SATA?



For that matter, how large are the PATA disks you're planning to keep  
in service?


On 21 Nov 2008, at 20:51, DHSinclair wrote:

OK, I now own 6 Sabrent SBT-SCIDE sata/eide converters.  2 are in  
use. 1 is now suspect. 3 remain untested.
I spoke with Sabrent today. They have no technical knowledge of  
their own product. Freely admitted that this product is a cheap  
knock-off of other more expensive products in the pipeline ATM.  
Bummer.


So, what are these other more expensive converters?  I have a link  
to HyperMicrosystems for $19 each, but it clearly states that it  
only works with hard drives.  I am looking for reliable converters  
for both hard drives and cdrom/dvdrom/burner that are pata-based.


I will test the rest of my stack tonight. Newegg and I will settle  
up next week if necessary.

Thank you,
Duncan

Re: [H] Seeking links to SATA/EIDE converters?

[James Boswell]

Whilst it just about makes sense to press the PATA harddisks into  
service with convertors, given the cost of replacement disks (they're  
more than I thought actually, newegg have _80GB_ disks for $40 ! wth!  
that's hilarious since a few months ago I remember seeing 1 terabyte  
Samsung F1's for $115 or so)


$19.99 for a SATA/PATA convertor for an optical drive...

or $21.99 for a native SATA Optical drive?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136149

I can't really form a case for the convertor in that instance,  
especially with the extra point of failure they add to the equation


-JB


On 21 Nov 2008, at 21:09, DHSinclair wrote:


JB,
To your 1st, I'd tend to agree, my check today looks like ~$25-$40  
for opticals like Samsung/Lite-On?  I now have 5 current  
pata opticals (4 AOpen, 1 some generic), they all work, so I'd like  
to continue with them, if at all possible. Unless, any of the newer  
SATA specific opticals offer better performance that my current crop.


As for pata hard drives, I have 2. Both Seagate 160GB.  So far, one  
is running well w/converter.  One still has to be converted.


Agreed, I am pinching pennies here.  Any/all new hard drives will be  
sata.  Any/all new opticals will be sata.

Thank you,
Duncan

At 20:56 11/21/2008 +, you wrote:

for $19 or so each for convertors surely you're better off just...
buying new optical drives that are native SATA?


For that matter, how large are the PATA disks you're planning to keep
in service?

On 21 Nov 2008, at 20:51, DHSinclair wrote:


OK, I now own 6 Sabrent SBT-SCIDE sata/eide converters.  2 are in
use. 1 is now suspect. 3 remain untested.
I spoke with Sabrent today. They have no technical knowledge of
their own product. Freely admitted that this product is a cheap
knock-off of other more expensive products in the pipeline ATM.
Bummer.

So, what are these other more expensive converters?  I have a link
to HyperMicrosystems for $19 each, but it clearly states that it
only works with hard drives.  I am looking for reliable converters
for both hard drives and cdrom/dvdrom/burner that are pata-based.

I will test the rest of my stack tonight. Newegg and I will settle
up next week if necessary.
Thank you,
Duncan

Re: [H] Oops! new psu's needed

[James Boswell]

the PCPC units are always a solid choice, personally I've used a lot  
of these http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139004Tpk=corsair%20550vx 
 lately without issue



Really you don't NEED anything over a good quality 400w unit,  
especially if you're not loading in a big videocard,
My tri-harddisk, 4Ghz OC'd E8400 with 8GB of DDR2-800 @ 2.2v/890Mhz  
and an 8800GTX draws 380w _at the wall_ when flat out, it has a 550w  
corsair unit in it, with no OC and no big GPU you're looking at well  
down into 400w is ample territory.


500-550w is very comfortable, the vast vast majority of machines do  
NOT need 600w PSU's, that's just into the realms of lunacy and bigger- 
number-chasing in the vast majority of cases. (I've got an Opteron 175  
box I use as a server with 2GB of ram and 10 disks in it, that draws  
~200w under load, ~100w with the disks spun down and C'N'Q engaged...  
makes the 565w Enermax PSU in it seem a bit... overkill)


On 4 Nov 2008, at 16:02, DHSinclair wrote:

It occurred to me this am over coffee that I might need new psu's  
for the planned new systems.
Sure enough, after some quick checks in the P5Q3 UM, I do..and  
it is qty=3.

OK, went to Newegg and found this appealing choice:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817703005

Comments?  I am still researching the size issue mentioned in some  
comments/reviews.


Has Seasonic stopped building? Or, are they just so popular now that  
they are mostly always sold out?
Was thinking of the S12-600Wht. Have yet to find one though. But  
then, I do not use many different vendors. Hmm.anyone have  
quality links.?

Best,
Duncan

Re: [H] Oops! new psu's needed

[James Boswell]

The 600W'ish PC Power  Cooling unit is a fine PSU that you can't  
really go wrong with, it's enough for a 4870X2 if that's where your  
modern video wants take you :p


On 4 Nov 2008, at 16:47, DHSinclair wrote:


James,
At the start, I completely agree with your suggestion. Yes a quality  
400W unit would probably fill the bill.  But, if you'll recall your  
last, I still have not done the decision on NEW video cards.  Video  
cards, to me, for the last 5 years have been like learning a new  
foreign language!  I have not kept current since the nVidia GeForce  
4 TI days.  All of my video cards are old; and some like my  
G200's are even older! Heck, I still have and use a Mill2 also. I do  
have some transitional FX5500's.  So, new video will be a future task.


I have always planned my psus to be 50% larger than any analytical  
computation showed to be needed.  I read that figure as base wattage  
to get the job done. Yes, this means that over the years I have  
probably spent more money than truly necessary. But I consider this  
good insurance. I have only had 3 psu failures - all Enermax 450W  
units.


Just now I use 510W psus. They replaced what appeared to be  
bargain Enermax 450W psus. I still have one left, but it will only  
get used in a dire emergency!


I only queried the PCPC 610W choice because with promos and rebates  
it is ~50% off retail. Of course, I still need to find out if this  
offer is for a refurbished product. If so, I'll start the search  
again.

Best,
Duncan

At 16:12 11/04/2008 +, you wrote:

the PCPC units are always a solid choice, personally I've used a lot
of these http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139004Tpk=corsair%20550vx 
 lately without issue



Really you don't NEED anything over a good quality 400w unit,
especially if you're not loading in a big videocard,
My tri-harddisk, 4Ghz OC'd E8400 with 8GB of DDR2-800 @ 2.2v/890Mhz
and an 8800GTX draws 380w _at the wall_ when flat out, it has a 550w
corsair unit in it, with no OC and no big GPU you're looking at well
down into 400w is ample territory.

500-550w is very comfortable, the vast vast majority of machines do
NOT need 600w PSU's, that's just into the realms of lunacy and  
bigger- number-chasing in the vast majority of cases. (I've got an  
Opteron 175

box I use as a server with 2GB of ram and 10 disks in it, that draws
~200w under load, ~100w with the disks spun down and C'N'Q engaged...
makes the 565w Enermax PSU in it seem a bit... overkill)

On 4 Nov 2008, at 16:02, DHSinclair wrote:


It occurred to me this am over coffee that I might need new psu's
for the planned new systems.
Sure enough, after some quick checks in the P5Q3 UM, I do..and
it is qty=3.
OK, went to Newegg and found this appealing choice:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817703005

Comments?  I am still researching the size issue mentioned in some
comments/reviews.

Has Seasonic stopped building? Or, are they just so popular now that
they are mostly always sold out?
Was thinking of the S12-600Wht. Have yet to find one though. But
then, I do not use many different vendors. Hmm.anyone have
quality links.?
Best,
Duncan

Re: [H] Intel E8400

[James Boswell]

OK, I think I will do the E8400-retail.  Are there any negative  
comments about the hs/fan that comes with the E8400?  New hs/fans  
are possible for future needs as conditions warrant; and, would most  
likely go to ThermalRight unless a better cooler  
exists :)




The cases are all Lian-Li PC69's (that have been a good investment  
from years past!).

The case fans are not an issue; can be updated as required.

Over the years, I have found that most default hs/fan combos from  
intel work well at the box chip speeds... I do not plan to  
overclock.  The 3.0GHz speed is just fine.




I'm experimenting with a Xigmatek thing at the moment, which does a  
very good job, but for stock clock the retail one is absolutely fine.


Almost seems like a shame to leave an E8400 stock though, I've yet to  
encounter one that wasn't stable at 3.6Ghz without even looking at the  
voltage setting. :p
Not that I'm saying you have to or anything, it's totally cool to like  
the peace of mind that comes from big safety margins.


-JB

Re: [H] Intel E8400

[James Boswell]

Are you serious? a G200 PCI?

Why on earth would you bother to carry forward a... ten? year old PCI  
graphics card?


Is it even the right PCI voltage for a modern box?

BTW, The plan is to migrate a G200 card forward. The new m/b does  
have PCI slots (2). :)
This just may be either 'way-too-much-fun',  'way-too- 
expensive' ,or, 'way-too-stupid.'

Me? I betting on the 'way-too-stupid' choice...LOL!
Sometimes Science can drop a bomb!
At this point, I am forced to react to whatever.
Thank you,
Duncan

At 17:10 11/03/2008 -0800, you wrote:

I always get a after market fan, and I don't overclock. A good CPU  
cooler like  Arctic Cooler, which is Swiss made, is just a LOT  
quieter then stock.  You can get one at Newegg, a Freezer 7, which  
will handle up to 135 watts, for under 30 bucks.



At 01:32 PM 11/3/2008, you wrote:


OK, I think I will do the E8400-retail.  Are there any negative
comments about the hs/fan that comes with the E8400?  New hs/fans
are possible for future needs as conditions warrant; and, would  
most

likely go to ThermalRight unless a better cooler
exists :)




The cases are all Lian-Li PC69's (that have been a good investment
from years past!).
The case fans are not an issue; can be updated as required.

Over the years, I have found that most default hs/fan combos from
intel work well at the box chip speeds... I do not plan to
overclock.  The 3.0GHz speed is just fine.


I'm experimenting with a Xigmatek thing at the moment, which does a
very good job, but for stock clock the retail one is absolutely  
fine.


Almost seems like a shame to leave an E8400 stock though, I've yet  
to
encounter one that wasn't stable at 3.6Ghz without even looking at  
the

voltage setting. :p
Not that I'm saying you have to or anything, it's totally cool to  
like

the peace of mind that comes from big safety margins.

-JB

Re: [H] Hit the wall!

[James Boswell]

What? an E8600 does NOT take 150w, let alone 230w? are you SERIOUS? it  
doesn't say POWER6 on the box


the E8500 (part one speed grade down from it, and I'm using numbers  
from the initial public stepping) draws 33.4w, with a theoretical 65w  
TDP


The numbers linked test the total system power with the processors  
overclocked to 4275Mhz at a vcore of 1.4v !


That's quite an absurd way to test really.

On 2 Nov 2008, at 13:56, FORC5 wrote:


150 to 230 watt CPU

I pass on this heat machine
fp

At 09:35 PM 11/1/2008, Raul Limos Poked the stick with:


Processor:  Core 2 Duo E8600.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/core2duo-e8600.html


--
Tallyho ! ]:8)
Taglines below !
--
The Second Amendment is in place in case they  ignore the others.

Re: [H] Upgrade Time

[James Boswell]

On 13 Oct 2008, at 13:09, Steve Tomporowski wrote:


I started reading some of the reviews and when there's some problem
that comes and goes randomly, I think not;-)


the L3 cache errata isn't an issue now, the 9x50 badged parts no  
longer have that problem.



-JB

Re: [H] Upgrade Time

[James Boswell]

E8500
Asus P5Q mainboard
4GB of DDR2-800

That should just about cover it.

On 5 Oct 2008, at 14:21, Steve Tomporowski wrote:


I am looking to upgrade the processor/motherboard on my 'oldest'
system.  It's a Neo 4 Platinum with an Athlon X2 3800+.  I'm not
looking for the bleeding edge, but for something that'll give me a
substantial increase in speed for games.  I've got an Nvidia 280 right
now, so that's set.

What's hot now?

ThanksSteve