Re: [hlds] When will quickplay return to a level playing field?

[ics]

This is actually a discussion list for server related things, which has 
wide scale. Bugfixes aren't our thing usually, unless they affect 
servers somehow aka maps or weapons that can cause issues etc but rocks 
having wrong shape aren't our thing.


As for topic, i'm not sure about others but the quickplay change only 
hurt us legitimate server running people who didn't tease our users with 
shit like stupid mods or paid features or advertisements. Right now from 
full 4x24 servers on daily basis, we've come down to 1 full at evening. 
Hits kind of a bad place as quickplay was nice to fill up the rest of 
the slots. There has been people playing on the empty ones every day but 
when no one else joins, they will go and find a new server that is 
nearly full. Thats just the way it is.


I've complained  this before and i just wanted to say this again but 
pulling a stunt like this really isn't the thing that you want to do to 
people like me who run servers. We have (well, had), a lot of people who 
wanted to play on our servers, just because they were watched on and 
troublemakers were removed quickly. Now, they fade away from the game 
eventyally because there isn't the same spirit anymore while playing. No 
friends, because not all of them can fit into a _one server_. Personally 
i've lost my motivation towards TF2 also. Played like 5 hours max in the 
last 2 months.


So while you want to do the Valve way, you should really think about the 
better way.


-ics

James Haikin kirjoitti:
This mailing list is for bugfixes and technical support, not for 
politics and drama.


-James


On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 4:46 PM, Robert Paulson > wrote:


I don't see how there could be a better place to discuss this.
This quickplay problem affects srcds servers and this is a mailing
list for servers that is visited by the people responsible for
this change.

If Valve does not realize this is a problem, that is even more of
a reason to keep talking about it.

I don't think Valve doesn't care, they just don't know it is a
problem. Otherwise they wouldn't have wasted their time making
quickpick.

They need to realize it is causing a net loss of players and
quickplay options and quickpick didn't solve the issue.


On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 4:33 PM, James Haikin mailto:jfrra...@gmail.com>> wrote:

I'm just sick of people bitching about something that Valve
has shown no indication of changing, in a place where it's
rather patently inappropriate for the discussion to be taking
place.

-James


On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 4:31 PM, Robert Paulson
mailto:thepauls...@gmail.com>> wrote:

"Empirical" evidence was already offered which you thought
were "my" players, as if I had tens of thousands of
players. Those numbers are pulled straight from Steam.

What's the point of trolling this discussion? Don't you
have anything better to do?


On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 4:14 PM, James Haikin
mailto:jfrra...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Why hello there, anecdotal evidence. If you could go
ahead and get us an actual cross-section of the
playerbase, that'd be great.

-James


On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Robert Paulson
mailto:thepauls...@gmail.com>>
wrote:

It might not cause more players to magically
appear, but more of them will end up in better
servers than the official ones. Community servers
offer additional value that keep people playing
TF2 longer.

I know quite a few people who have stopped playing
after their favorite server emptied out because of
this change. They would rather not play TF2 than
play on an official server which are laggy and
full of hackers and griefers.


On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 3:58 PM, Alexander Z
mailto:spacebur...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Fixing quickplay, however you want to see it
"fixed", won't cause more players to magically
appear.
TF2 is running on borrowed time, and the
playerbase will only be getting smaller with time.


On 25 April 2014 23:42, Robert Paulson
mailto:thepauls...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Those aren't "my" player counts, those are
the global player counts.


On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 2:32 PM, James
Haikin mailto:jfrra...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hint: t

Re: [hlds] Client updates released for TF2, CS:S, DoD:S, and HL2:DM

[Bubka3]

I'm still having issues with this?


David Koontz 
Friday, April 25, 2014 6:17 PM
Thank you muchly, Valve!



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A Fearts 
Friday, April 25, 2014 5:54 PM
Thank you for fixing this so quickly.



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Eric Smith 
Friday, April 25, 2014 5:45 PM
We've released client updates for TF2, CS:S, DoD:S, and HL2:DM that 
should fix the decompression problems clients are having with large 
.bsp files being downloaded from servers.


-Eric


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Re: [hlds] When will quickplay return to a level playing field?

[James Haikin]

I'm asking these questions because none of you seem to have asked them
yourself. You keep asking, "Why did Valve do this to us?" when you should
be asking "Why did Valve do this at all?" It sounds similar, but it's a
very different question.

-James


On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 5:25 PM, Robert Paulson wrote:

> Because the common player also doesn't care if Valve/TF2 fails?
>
> Why not take a few minutes to actually understand what you are reading
> before replying with these obvious questions?
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 5:18 PM, James Haikin  wrote:
>
>> So if the common player doesn't care, why should Valve? Serious question.
>>
>> -James
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 5:15 PM, Robert Paulson wrote:
>>
>>> SPUF is a tiny portion of the TF2 population. Most people that play a
>>> game don't go on the forums to chat about it.
>>>
>>> The common player won't even give 2 shits if TF2 itself is dying because
>>> of this change.
>>>
>>> They are not die hard fans and they will just go back to COD or
>>> Titanfall if the servers they want to play on are emptying out because of
>>> Valve. They are not going to petition Valve, complain on SPUF, or even be
>>> aware that Valve is causing this.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 4:58 PM, James Haikin wrote:
>>>
 "Most of the users on SPUF".

 You mean "the majority of the game's playerbase"? So 90% of the game's
 players don't care about the problem? Why, then, is it a problem?

 -James


 On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 4:56 PM, Bubka3  wrote:

> I don't think discussing topics which directly affect server operators
> on SPUF is a good idea. Most of the users on SPUF are not technically
> inclined and could probably care less about this problem.
>
>   James Haikin 
>  Friday, April 25, 2014 7:52 PM
> You want to discuss something? Take it to SPUF.
>
> -James
>
>
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>   Robert Paulson 
>  Friday, April 25, 2014 7:46 PM
> I don't see how there could be a better place to discuss this. This
> quickplay problem affects srcds servers and this is a mailing list for
> servers that is visited by the people responsible for this change.
>
> If Valve does not realize this is a problem, that is even more of a
> reason to keep talking about it.
>
> I don't think Valve doesn't care, they just don't know it is a
> problem. Otherwise they wouldn't have wasted their time making quickpick.
>
> They need to realize it is causing a net loss of players and quickplay
> options and quickpick didn't solve the issue.
>
>
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>   James Haikin 
>  Friday, April 25, 2014 7:33 PM
> I'm just sick of people bitching about something that Valve has shown
> no indication of changing, in a place where it's rather patently
> inappropriate for the discussion to be taking place.
>
> -James
>
>
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
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>   Robert Paulson 
>  Friday, April 25, 2014 7:31 PM
> "Empirical" evidence was already offered which you thought were "my"
> players, as if I had tens of thousands of players. Those numbers are 
> pulled
> straight from Steam.
>
> What's the point of trolling this discussion? Don't you have anything
> better to do?
>
>
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
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>   James Haikin 
>  Friday, April 25, 2014 7:14 PM
> Why hello there, anecdotal evidence. If you could go ahead and get us
> an actual cross-section of the playerbase, that'd be great.
>
> -James
>
>
>
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>
> --
> Bubka3 
>
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Re: [hlds] When will quickplay return to a level playing field?

[Robert Paulson]

Because the common player also doesn't care if Valve/TF2 fails?

Why not take a few minutes to actually understand what you are reading
before replying with these obvious questions?


On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 5:18 PM, James Haikin  wrote:

> So if the common player doesn't care, why should Valve? Serious question.
>
> -James
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 5:15 PM, Robert Paulson wrote:
>
>> SPUF is a tiny portion of the TF2 population. Most people that play a
>> game don't go on the forums to chat about it.
>>
>> The common player won't even give 2 shits if TF2 itself is dying because
>> of this change.
>>
>> They are not die hard fans and they will just go back to COD or Titanfall
>> if the servers they want to play on are emptying out because of Valve. They
>> are not going to petition Valve, complain on SPUF, or even be aware that
>> Valve is causing this.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 4:58 PM, James Haikin  wrote:
>>
>>> "Most of the users on SPUF".
>>>
>>> You mean "the majority of the game's playerbase"? So 90% of the game's
>>> players don't care about the problem? Why, then, is it a problem?
>>>
>>> -James
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 4:56 PM, Bubka3  wrote:
>>>
 I don't think discussing topics which directly affect server operators
 on SPUF is a good idea. Most of the users on SPUF are not technically
 inclined and could probably care less about this problem.

   James Haikin 
  Friday, April 25, 2014 7:52 PM
 You want to discuss something? Take it to SPUF.

 -James



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   Robert Paulson 
  Friday, April 25, 2014 7:46 PM
 I don't see how there could be a better place to discuss this. This
 quickplay problem affects srcds servers and this is a mailing list for
 servers that is visited by the people responsible for this change.

 If Valve does not realize this is a problem, that is even more of a
 reason to keep talking about it.

 I don't think Valve doesn't care, they just don't know it is a problem.
 Otherwise they wouldn't have wasted their time making quickpick.

 They need to realize it is causing a net loss of players and quickplay
 options and quickpick didn't solve the issue.



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   James Haikin 
  Friday, April 25, 2014 7:33 PM
 I'm just sick of people bitching about something that Valve has shown
 no indication of changing, in a place where it's rather patently
 inappropriate for the discussion to be taking place.

 -James



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   Robert Paulson 
  Friday, April 25, 2014 7:31 PM
 "Empirical" evidence was already offered which you thought were "my"
 players, as if I had tens of thousands of players. Those numbers are pulled
 straight from Steam.

 What's the point of trolling this discussion? Don't you have anything
 better to do?



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   James Haikin 
  Friday, April 25, 2014 7:14 PM
 Why hello there, anecdotal evidence. If you could go ahead and get us
 an actual cross-section of the playerbase, that'd be great.

 -James



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>>>
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Re: [hlds] When will quickplay return to a level playing field?

[lemon superman]

Because if it weren't for some of these people putting their time, money,
blood, sweat, and fucking tears into their servers and building their
communities and thus adding to the overall experience of TF2, you probably
wouldn't be playing/enjoying TF2 as it is now and Valve's game wouldn't
have made it past 2010 long enough for Valve to try out their F2P model
that summarily excludes most of the people that MADE them what they are. Or
did you happen to not know that Valve NEVER hosted their own game servers
up until QP (2011, 4 years AFTER its release) for TF2.

The common player wouldn't be buying stuff from the Mann Co. store, they
wouldn't be trading, they wouldn't even be using the Steam Market place
(look where Valve's in-game trading/transaction system came from). None of
that would have been possible without these people who are "bitching" about
being treated unfairly for being loyal to Valve and the TF2 team for years.
Valve only made the game, these guys built the servers AND expanded its
unique experience into what made it so popular.


On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 5:18 PM, James Haikin  wrote:

> So if the common player doesn't care, why should Valve? Serious question.
>
> -James
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 5:15 PM, Robert Paulson wrote:
>
>> SPUF is a tiny portion of the TF2 population. Most people that play a
>> game don't go on the forums to chat about it.
>>
>> The common player won't even give 2 shits if TF2 itself is dying because
>> of this change.
>>
>> They are not die hard fans and they will just go back to COD or Titanfall
>> if the servers they want to play on are emptying out because of Valve. They
>> are not going to petition Valve, complain on SPUF, or even be aware that
>> Valve is causing this.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 4:58 PM, James Haikin  wrote:
>>
>>> "Most of the users on SPUF".
>>>
>>> You mean "the majority of the game's playerbase"? So 90% of the game's
>>> players don't care about the problem? Why, then, is it a problem?
>>>
>>> -James
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 4:56 PM, Bubka3  wrote:
>>>
 I don't think discussing topics which directly affect server operators
 on SPUF is a good idea. Most of the users on SPUF are not technically
 inclined and could probably care less about this problem.

   James Haikin 
  Friday, April 25, 2014 7:52 PM
 You want to discuss something? Take it to SPUF.

 -James



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   Robert Paulson 
  Friday, April 25, 2014 7:46 PM
 I don't see how there could be a better place to discuss this. This
 quickplay problem affects srcds servers and this is a mailing list for
 servers that is visited by the people responsible for this change.

 If Valve does not realize this is a problem, that is even more of a
 reason to keep talking about it.

 I don't think Valve doesn't care, they just don't know it is a problem.
 Otherwise they wouldn't have wasted their time making quickpick.

 They need to realize it is causing a net loss of players and quickplay
 options and quickpick didn't solve the issue.



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 please visit:
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   James Haikin 
  Friday, April 25, 2014 7:33 PM
 I'm just sick of people bitching about something that Valve has shown
 no indication of changing, in a place where it's rather patently
 inappropriate for the discussion to be taking place.

 -James



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   Robert Paulson 
  Friday, April 25, 2014 7:31 PM
 "Empirical" evidence was already offered which you thought were "my"
 players, as if I had tens of thousands of players. Those numbers are pulled
 straight from Steam.

 What's the point of trolling this discussion? Don't you have anything
 better to do?



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   James Haikin 
  Friday, April 25, 2014 7:14 PM
 Why hello there, anecdotal evidence. If you could go ahead and get us
 an actual cross-section of the playerbase, that'd be great.

 -James



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Re: [hlds] When will quickplay return to a level playing field?

[James Haikin]

So if the common player doesn't care, why should Valve? Serious question.

-James


On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 5:15 PM, Robert Paulson wrote:

> SPUF is a tiny portion of the TF2 population. Most people that play a game
> don't go on the forums to chat about it.
>
> The common player won't even give 2 shits if TF2 itself is dying because
> of this change.
>
> They are not die hard fans and they will just go back to COD or Titanfall
> if the servers they want to play on are emptying out because of Valve. They
> are not going to petition Valve, complain on SPUF, or even be aware that
> Valve is causing this.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 4:58 PM, James Haikin  wrote:
>
>> "Most of the users on SPUF".
>>
>> You mean "the majority of the game's playerbase"? So 90% of the game's
>> players don't care about the problem? Why, then, is it a problem?
>>
>> -James
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 4:56 PM, Bubka3  wrote:
>>
>>> I don't think discussing topics which directly affect server operators
>>> on SPUF is a good idea. Most of the users on SPUF are not technically
>>> inclined and could probably care less about this problem.
>>>
>>>   James Haikin 
>>>  Friday, April 25, 2014 7:52 PM
>>> You want to discuss something? Take it to SPUF.
>>>
>>> -James
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>>> please visit:
>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>>>   Robert Paulson 
>>>  Friday, April 25, 2014 7:46 PM
>>> I don't see how there could be a better place to discuss this. This
>>> quickplay problem affects srcds servers and this is a mailing list for
>>> servers that is visited by the people responsible for this change.
>>>
>>> If Valve does not realize this is a problem, that is even more of a
>>> reason to keep talking about it.
>>>
>>> I don't think Valve doesn't care, they just don't know it is a problem.
>>> Otherwise they wouldn't have wasted their time making quickpick.
>>>
>>> They need to realize it is causing a net loss of players and quickplay
>>> options and quickpick didn't solve the issue.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>>> please visit:
>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>>>   James Haikin 
>>>  Friday, April 25, 2014 7:33 PM
>>> I'm just sick of people bitching about something that Valve has shown no
>>> indication of changing, in a place where it's rather patently inappropriate
>>> for the discussion to be taking place.
>>>
>>> -James
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>>> please visit:
>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>>>   Robert Paulson 
>>>  Friday, April 25, 2014 7:31 PM
>>> "Empirical" evidence was already offered which you thought were "my"
>>> players, as if I had tens of thousands of players. Those numbers are pulled
>>> straight from Steam.
>>>
>>> What's the point of trolling this discussion? Don't you have anything
>>> better to do?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>>> please visit:
>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>>>   James Haikin 
>>>  Friday, April 25, 2014 7:14 PM
>>> Why hello there, anecdotal evidence. If you could go ahead and get us an
>>> actual cross-section of the playerbase, that'd be great.
>>>
>>> -James
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>>> please visit:
>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Bubka3 
>>>
>>> ___
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>>> please visit:
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>>>
>>
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Re: [hlds] When will quickplay return to a level playing field?

[Robert Paulson]

SPUF is a tiny portion of the TF2 population. Most people that play a game
don't go on the forums to chat about it.

The common player won't even give 2 shits if TF2 itself is dying because of
this change.

They are not die hard fans and they will just go back to COD or Titanfall
if the servers they want to play on are emptying out because of Valve. They
are not going to petition Valve, complain on SPUF, or even be aware that
Valve is causing this.



On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 4:58 PM, James Haikin  wrote:

> "Most of the users on SPUF".
>
> You mean "the majority of the game's playerbase"? So 90% of the game's
> players don't care about the problem? Why, then, is it a problem?
>
> -James
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 4:56 PM, Bubka3  wrote:
>
>> I don't think discussing topics which directly affect server operators on
>> SPUF is a good idea. Most of the users on SPUF are not technically inclined
>> and could probably care less about this problem.
>>
>>   James Haikin 
>>  Friday, April 25, 2014 7:52 PM
>> You want to discuss something? Take it to SPUF.
>>
>> -James
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> please visit:
>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>>   Robert Paulson 
>>  Friday, April 25, 2014 7:46 PM
>> I don't see how there could be a better place to discuss this. This
>> quickplay problem affects srcds servers and this is a mailing list for
>> servers that is visited by the people responsible for this change.
>>
>> If Valve does not realize this is a problem, that is even more of a
>> reason to keep talking about it.
>>
>> I don't think Valve doesn't care, they just don't know it is a problem.
>> Otherwise they wouldn't have wasted their time making quickpick.
>>
>> They need to realize it is causing a net loss of players and quickplay
>> options and quickpick didn't solve the issue.
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> please visit:
>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>>   James Haikin 
>>  Friday, April 25, 2014 7:33 PM
>> I'm just sick of people bitching about something that Valve has shown no
>> indication of changing, in a place where it's rather patently inappropriate
>> for the discussion to be taking place.
>>
>> -James
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> please visit:
>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>>   Robert Paulson 
>>  Friday, April 25, 2014 7:31 PM
>> "Empirical" evidence was already offered which you thought were "my"
>> players, as if I had tens of thousands of players. Those numbers are pulled
>> straight from Steam.
>>
>> What's the point of trolling this discussion? Don't you have anything
>> better to do?
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> please visit:
>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>>   James Haikin 
>>  Friday, April 25, 2014 7:14 PM
>> Why hello there, anecdotal evidence. If you could go ahead and get us an
>> actual cross-section of the playerbase, that'd be great.
>>
>> -James
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> please visit:
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>>
>>
>> --
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>>
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Re: [hlds] When will quickplay return to a level playing field?

[James Haikin]

Having a different opinion on the matter is trolling. Got it. Carry on,
then.

-James


On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 5:09 PM, E. Olsen  wrote:

> No use feeding a troll, guys.
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 8:05 PM, James Haikin  wrote:
>
>> Not really. That's something that immediately and directly affects people
>> who aren't server operators.
>>
>> Less community servers just means that there's twenty instead of fifty
>> servers to choose from. And with quickplay, you don't even have to pick it
>> yourself.
>>
>> -James
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 5:02 PM, Bubka3  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Heh, nice try. By that logic the zip bombing wasn't a problem because
>>> the players didn't care.
>>>
>>>   James Haikin 
>>>  Friday, April 25, 2014 7:58 PM
>>> "Most of the users on SPUF".
>>>
>>> You mean "the majority of the game's playerbase"? So 90% of the game's
>>> players don't care about the problem? Why, then, is it a problem?
>>>
>>> -James
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>>> please visit:
>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>>>   Bubka3 
>>>  Friday, April 25, 2014 7:56 PM
>>>  I don't think discussing topics which directly affect server operators
>>> on SPUF is a good idea. Most of the users on SPUF are not technically
>>> inclined and could probably care less about this problem.
>>>
>>>
>>>   James Haikin 
>>>  Friday, April 25, 2014 7:52 PM
>>> You want to discuss something? Take it to SPUF.
>>>
>>> -James
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>>> please visit:
>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>>>   Robert Paulson 
>>>  Friday, April 25, 2014 7:46 PM
>>> I don't see how there could be a better place to discuss this. This
>>> quickplay problem affects srcds servers and this is a mailing list for
>>> servers that is visited by the people responsible for this change.
>>>
>>> If Valve does not realize this is a problem, that is even more of a
>>> reason to keep talking about it.
>>>
>>> I don't think Valve doesn't care, they just don't know it is a problem.
>>> Otherwise they wouldn't have wasted their time making quickpick.
>>>
>>> They need to realize it is causing a net loss of players and quickplay
>>> options and quickpick didn't solve the issue.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>>> please visit:
>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>>>   James Haikin 
>>>  Friday, April 25, 2014 7:33 PM
>>> I'm just sick of people bitching about something that Valve has shown no
>>> indication of changing, in a place where it's rather patently inappropriate
>>> for the discussion to be taking place.
>>>
>>> -James
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>>> please visit:
>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Bubka3 
>>>
>>> ___
>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>>> please visit:
>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>>>
>>>
>>
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Re: [hlds] When will quickplay return to a level playing field?

[E. Olsen]

No use feeding a troll, guys.


On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 8:05 PM, James Haikin  wrote:

> Not really. That's something that immediately and directly affects people
> who aren't server operators.
>
> Less community servers just means that there's twenty instead of fifty
> servers to choose from. And with quickplay, you don't even have to pick it
> yourself.
>
> -James
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 5:02 PM, Bubka3  wrote:
>
>>
>> Heh, nice try. By that logic the zip bombing wasn't a problem because the
>> players didn't care.
>>
>>   James Haikin 
>>  Friday, April 25, 2014 7:58 PM
>> "Most of the users on SPUF".
>>
>> You mean "the majority of the game's playerbase"? So 90% of the game's
>> players don't care about the problem? Why, then, is it a problem?
>>
>> -James
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> please visit:
>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>>   Bubka3 
>>  Friday, April 25, 2014 7:56 PM
>>  I don't think discussing topics which directly affect server operators
>> on SPUF is a good idea. Most of the users on SPUF are not technically
>> inclined and could probably care less about this problem.
>>
>>
>>   James Haikin 
>>  Friday, April 25, 2014 7:52 PM
>> You want to discuss something? Take it to SPUF.
>>
>> -James
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> please visit:
>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>>   Robert Paulson 
>>  Friday, April 25, 2014 7:46 PM
>> I don't see how there could be a better place to discuss this. This
>> quickplay problem affects srcds servers and this is a mailing list for
>> servers that is visited by the people responsible for this change.
>>
>> If Valve does not realize this is a problem, that is even more of a
>> reason to keep talking about it.
>>
>> I don't think Valve doesn't care, they just don't know it is a problem.
>> Otherwise they wouldn't have wasted their time making quickpick.
>>
>> They need to realize it is causing a net loss of players and quickplay
>> options and quickpick didn't solve the issue.
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> please visit:
>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>>   James Haikin 
>>  Friday, April 25, 2014 7:33 PM
>> I'm just sick of people bitching about something that Valve has shown no
>> indication of changing, in a place where it's rather patently inappropriate
>> for the discussion to be taking place.
>>
>> -James
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> please visit:
>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>>
>>
>> --
>> Bubka3 
>>
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> please visit:
>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>>
>>
>
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Re: [hlds] When will quickplay return to a level playing field?

[James Haikin]

Not really. That's something that immediately and directly affects people
who aren't server operators.

Less community servers just means that there's twenty instead of fifty
servers to choose from. And with quickplay, you don't even have to pick it
yourself.

-James


On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 5:02 PM, Bubka3  wrote:

>
> Heh, nice try. By that logic the zip bombing wasn't a problem because the
> players didn't care.
>
>   James Haikin 
>  Friday, April 25, 2014 7:58 PM
> "Most of the users on SPUF".
>
> You mean "the majority of the game's playerbase"? So 90% of the game's
> players don't care about the problem? Why, then, is it a problem?
>
> -James
>
>
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>   Bubka3 
>  Friday, April 25, 2014 7:56 PM
>  I don't think discussing topics which directly affect server operators on
> SPUF is a good idea. Most of the users on SPUF are not technically inclined
> and could probably care less about this problem.
>
>
>   James Haikin 
>  Friday, April 25, 2014 7:52 PM
> You want to discuss something? Take it to SPUF.
>
> -James
>
>
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>   Robert Paulson 
>  Friday, April 25, 2014 7:46 PM
> I don't see how there could be a better place to discuss this. This
> quickplay problem affects srcds servers and this is a mailing list for
> servers that is visited by the people responsible for this change.
>
> If Valve does not realize this is a problem, that is even more of a reason
> to keep talking about it.
>
> I don't think Valve doesn't care, they just don't know it is a problem.
> Otherwise they wouldn't have wasted their time making quickpick.
>
> They need to realize it is causing a net loss of players and quickplay
> options and quickpick didn't solve the issue.
>
>
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>   James Haikin 
>  Friday, April 25, 2014 7:33 PM
> I'm just sick of people bitching about something that Valve has shown no
> indication of changing, in a place where it's rather patently inappropriate
> for the discussion to be taking place.
>
> -James
>
>
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>
>
> --
> Bubka3 
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>
>
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Re: [hlds] When will quickplay return to a level playing field?

[Bubka3]

Heh, nice try. By that logic the zip bombing wasn't a problem because 
the players didn't care.

James Haikin 
Friday, April 25, 2014 7:58 PM
"Most of the users on SPUF".

You mean "the majority of the game's playerbase"? So 90% of the game's 
players don't care about the problem? Why, then, is it a problem?


-James



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Bubka3 
Friday, April 25, 2014 7:56 PM
I don't think discussing topics which directly affect server operators 
on SPUF is a good idea. Most of the users on SPUF are not technically 
inclined and could probably care less about this problem.



James Haikin 
Friday, April 25, 2014 7:52 PM
You want to discuss something? Take it to SPUF.

-James



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Robert Paulson 
Friday, April 25, 2014 7:46 PM
I don't see how there could be a better place to discuss this. This 
quickplay problem affects srcds servers and this is a mailing list for 
servers that is visited by the people responsible for this change.


If Valve does not realize this is a problem, that is even more of a 
reason to keep talking about it.


I don't think Valve doesn't care, they just don't know it is a 
problem. Otherwise they wouldn't have wasted their time making quickpick.


They need to realize it is causing a net loss of players and quickplay 
options and quickpick didn't solve the issue.




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James Haikin 
Friday, April 25, 2014 7:33 PM
I'm just sick of people bitching about something that Valve has shown 
no indication of changing, in a place where it's rather patently 
inappropriate for the discussion to be taking place.


-James



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Re: [hlds] When will quickplay return to a level playing field?

[James Haikin]

"Most of the users on SPUF".

You mean "the majority of the game's playerbase"? So 90% of the game's
players don't care about the problem? Why, then, is it a problem?

-James


On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 4:56 PM, Bubka3  wrote:

> I don't think discussing topics which directly affect server operators on
> SPUF is a good idea. Most of the users on SPUF are not technically inclined
> and could probably care less about this problem.
>
>   James Haikin 
>  Friday, April 25, 2014 7:52 PM
> You want to discuss something? Take it to SPUF.
>
> -James
>
>
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>   Robert Paulson 
>  Friday, April 25, 2014 7:46 PM
> I don't see how there could be a better place to discuss this. This
> quickplay problem affects srcds servers and this is a mailing list for
> servers that is visited by the people responsible for this change.
>
> If Valve does not realize this is a problem, that is even more of a reason
> to keep talking about it.
>
> I don't think Valve doesn't care, they just don't know it is a problem.
> Otherwise they wouldn't have wasted their time making quickpick.
>
> They need to realize it is causing a net loss of players and quickplay
> options and quickpick didn't solve the issue.
>
>
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>   James Haikin 
>  Friday, April 25, 2014 7:33 PM
> I'm just sick of people bitching about something that Valve has shown no
> indication of changing, in a place where it's rather patently inappropriate
> for the discussion to be taking place.
>
> -James
>
>
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>   Robert Paulson 
>  Friday, April 25, 2014 7:31 PM
> "Empirical" evidence was already offered which you thought were "my"
> players, as if I had tens of thousands of players. Those numbers are pulled
> straight from Steam.
>
> What's the point of trolling this discussion? Don't you have anything
> better to do?
>
>
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>   James Haikin 
>  Friday, April 25, 2014 7:14 PM
> Why hello there, anecdotal evidence. If you could go ahead and get us an
> actual cross-section of the playerbase, that'd be great.
>
> -James
>
>
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>
>
> --
> Bubka3 
>
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Re: [hlds] When will quickplay return to a level playing field?

[Bubka3]

I don't think discussing topics which directly affect server operators 
on SPUF is a good idea. Most of the users on SPUF are not technically 
inclined and could probably care less about this problem.



James Haikin 
Friday, April 25, 2014 7:52 PM
You want to discuss something? Take it to SPUF.

-James



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Robert Paulson 
Friday, April 25, 2014 7:46 PM
I don't see how there could be a better place to discuss this. This 
quickplay problem affects srcds servers and this is a mailing list for 
servers that is visited by the people responsible for this change.


If Valve does not realize this is a problem, that is even more of a 
reason to keep talking about it.


I don't think Valve doesn't care, they just don't know it is a 
problem. Otherwise they wouldn't have wasted their time making quickpick.


They need to realize it is causing a net loss of players and quickplay 
options and quickpick didn't solve the issue.




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James Haikin 
Friday, April 25, 2014 7:33 PM
I'm just sick of people bitching about something that Valve has shown 
no indication of changing, in a place where it's rather patently 
inappropriate for the discussion to be taking place.


-James



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Robert Paulson 
Friday, April 25, 2014 7:31 PM
"Empirical" evidence was already offered which you thought were "my" 
players, as if I had tens of thousands of players. Those numbers are 
pulled straight from Steam.


What's the point of trolling this discussion? Don't you have anything 
better to do?




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James Haikin 
Friday, April 25, 2014 7:14 PM
Why hello there, anecdotal evidence. If you could go ahead and get us 
an actual cross-section of the playerbase, that'd be great.


-James



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Re: [hlds] When will quickplay return to a level playing field?

[E. Olsen]

Yeah - this is a mailing list for issues affecting server operators, so it
seems like the right place to me. Furthermore, it's not unreasonable for
Valve to at least communicate to us their intention(s) down the road as far
as quickplay goes.

Many a server operator on this list has "been there" for Valve when they
asked us to step up and support this or that for the game (to include
augmenting their infrastructure when they didn't have enough server to
support the playerbase).

When you apply a "blanket punishment" to everyone in ANY group when only a
small majority were responsible for the actions you are applying that
punishment for, then of course the innocent affected are going to continue
to ask when they will have that "unjust" punishment lifted.

I haven't asking anything unreasonable here. The fact is, there has been
ZERO communication from the TF2 regarding this issue since they threw
community servers out in the cold. There's no reason for there to be an
"adversarial" attitude towards all server operators simply because there
were a few bad apples that needed to be eliminated.

 Hosting TF2 should be a partnership between Valve and the rest of us that
have been here for them since day one. There are communities out there that
have gone to great strides over the years in hosting events, tournaments,
mapping contests, and creating content for the game that certainly don't
deserve to be ignored like this.

The TF2 team used to go to great lengths to keep us in the loop. Again,
this is not and should not ever be "us against them". We could be helping
them make TF2 a better game, while still building the diversity that made
it great in the first place.but there's no way for us to do that if we
continue to be left out in the cold.


On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 7:33 PM, James Haikin  wrote:

> I'm just sick of people bitching about something that Valve has shown no
> indication of changing, in a place where it's rather patently inappropriate
> for the discussion to be taking place.
>
> -James
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 4:31 PM, Robert Paulson wrote:
>
>> "Empirical" evidence was already offered which you thought were "my"
>> players, as if I had tens of thousands of players. Those numbers are pulled
>> straight from Steam.
>>
>> What's the point of trolling this discussion? Don't you have anything
>> better to do?
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 4:14 PM, James Haikin  wrote:
>>
>>> Why hello there, anecdotal evidence. If you could go ahead and get us an
>>> actual cross-section of the playerbase, that'd be great.
>>>
>>> -James
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Robert Paulson 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 It might not cause more players to magically appear, but more of them
 will end up in better servers than the official ones. Community servers
 offer additional value that keep people playing TF2 longer.

 I know quite a few people who have stopped playing after their favorite
 server emptied out because of this change. They would rather not play TF2
 than play on an official server which are laggy and full of hackers and
 griefers.


 On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 3:58 PM, Alexander Z wrote:

> Fixing quickplay, however you want to see it "fixed", won't cause more
> players to magically appear.
> TF2 is running on borrowed time, and the playerbase will only be
> getting smaller with time.
>
>
> On 25 April 2014 23:42, Robert Paulson  wrote:
>
>> Those aren't "my" player counts, those are the global player counts.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 2:32 PM, James Haikin wrote:
>>
>>> Hint: they DGAF about your player count.
>>>
>>> -James
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 2:30 PM, Robert Paulson <
>>> thepauls...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 When will Valve realize was a bad decision? Player counts haven't
 been this low since last year, and there is no new FPS game.

 For those people claiming player counts get lower until summer
 vacation, they didn't drop as much as last year.

 After the change, the weekly high dropped by 5000. Compare to last
 year in the same time frame there is barely a 1000 player difference. 
 How
 much more obvious does it need to get?

 2014
 http://i.imgur.com/xoUEHbr.png

 2013
 http://i.imgur.com/Rp9y2kD.png

 data from steamcharts.com



 On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 9:18 PM, E. Olsen wrote:

> I think the issue here, is...there really is no longer any reason
> for valve servers to be the "default" servers once a player has 8-12 
> hours
> in the game.
>
> The minority of players who only want those random pub games on
> valve servers now have that option - but the players who stick around 
> in
> th

Re: [hlds] When will quickplay return to a level playing field?

[James Haikin]

You want to discuss something? Take it to SPUF.

-James


On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 4:46 PM, Robert Paulson wrote:

> I don't see how there could be a better place to discuss this. This
> quickplay problem affects srcds servers and this is a mailing list for
> servers that is visited by the people responsible for this change.
>
> If Valve does not realize this is a problem, that is even more of a reason
> to keep talking about it.
>
> I don't think Valve doesn't care, they just don't know it is a problem.
> Otherwise they wouldn't have wasted their time making quickpick.
>
> They need to realize it is causing a net loss of players and quickplay
> options and quickpick didn't solve the issue.
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 4:33 PM, James Haikin  wrote:
>
>> I'm just sick of people bitching about something that Valve has shown no
>> indication of changing, in a place where it's rather patently inappropriate
>> for the discussion to be taking place.
>>
>> -James
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 4:31 PM, Robert Paulson wrote:
>>
>>> "Empirical" evidence was already offered which you thought were "my"
>>> players, as if I had tens of thousands of players. Those numbers are pulled
>>> straight from Steam.
>>>
>>> What's the point of trolling this discussion? Don't you have anything
>>> better to do?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 4:14 PM, James Haikin wrote:
>>>
 Why hello there, anecdotal evidence. If you could go ahead and get us
 an actual cross-section of the playerbase, that'd be great.

 -James


 On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Robert Paulson 
 wrote:

> It might not cause more players to magically appear, but more of them
> will end up in better servers than the official ones. Community servers
> offer additional value that keep people playing TF2 longer.
>
> I know quite a few people who have stopped playing after their
> favorite server emptied out because of this change. They would rather not
> play TF2 than play on an official server which are laggy and full of
> hackers and griefers.
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 3:58 PM, Alexander Z wrote:
>
>> Fixing quickplay, however you want to see it "fixed", won't cause
>> more players to magically appear.
>> TF2 is running on borrowed time, and the playerbase will only be
>> getting smaller with time.
>>
>>
>> On 25 April 2014 23:42, Robert Paulson  wrote:
>>
>>> Those aren't "my" player counts, those are the global player counts.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 2:32 PM, James Haikin wrote:
>>>
 Hint: they DGAF about your player count.

 -James


 On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 2:30 PM, Robert Paulson <
 thepauls...@gmail.com> wrote:

> When will Valve realize was a bad decision? Player counts haven't
> been this low since last year, and there is no new FPS game.
>
> For those people claiming player counts get lower until summer
> vacation, they didn't drop as much as last year.
>
> After the change, the weekly high dropped by 5000. Compare to last
> year in the same time frame there is barely a 1000 player difference. 
> How
> much more obvious does it need to get?
>
> 2014
> http://i.imgur.com/xoUEHbr.png
>
> 2013
> http://i.imgur.com/Rp9y2kD.png
>
> data from steamcharts.com
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 9:18 PM, E. Olsen wrote:
>
>> I think the issue here, is...there really is no longer any reason
>> for valve servers to be the "default" servers once a player has 8-12 
>> hours
>> in the game.
>>
>> The minority of players who only want those random pub games on
>> valve servers now have that option - but the players who stick 
>> around in
>> the long-term will be the ones that find a "home" server/group of 
>> servers,
>> not those looking for the "x-box live" experience of random games 
>> with
>> random people every time. Honestly, if the TF2 team could see the 
>> chaos and
>> lack of teamwork that valve servers actually seem to encourage, I 
>> think
>> they would take a step back and realize that it really doesn't do 
>> the game
>> any justice. There is a reason some of the newer players have taken 
>> to
>> calling community servers "pubstomp" servers - it's because community
>> servers are where they fist come up against actual, cohesive 
>> teamwork - and
>> they're used to a bunch of random players just doing they're own 
>> thing.
>>
>> Frankly - I firmly believe the long-term health of the game rests
>> with community servers who provide 

Re: [hlds] When will quickplay return to a level playing field?

[James Haikin]

This mailing list is for bugfixes and technical support, not for politics
and drama.

-James


On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 4:46 PM, Robert Paulson wrote:

> I don't see how there could be a better place to discuss this. This
> quickplay problem affects srcds servers and this is a mailing list for
> servers that is visited by the people responsible for this change.
>
> If Valve does not realize this is a problem, that is even more of a reason
> to keep talking about it.
>
> I don't think Valve doesn't care, they just don't know it is a problem.
> Otherwise they wouldn't have wasted their time making quickpick.
>
> They need to realize it is causing a net loss of players and quickplay
> options and quickpick didn't solve the issue.
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 4:33 PM, James Haikin  wrote:
>
>> I'm just sick of people bitching about something that Valve has shown no
>> indication of changing, in a place where it's rather patently inappropriate
>> for the discussion to be taking place.
>>
>> -James
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 4:31 PM, Robert Paulson wrote:
>>
>>> "Empirical" evidence was already offered which you thought were "my"
>>> players, as if I had tens of thousands of players. Those numbers are pulled
>>> straight from Steam.
>>>
>>> What's the point of trolling this discussion? Don't you have anything
>>> better to do?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 4:14 PM, James Haikin wrote:
>>>
 Why hello there, anecdotal evidence. If you could go ahead and get us
 an actual cross-section of the playerbase, that'd be great.

 -James


 On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Robert Paulson 
 wrote:

> It might not cause more players to magically appear, but more of them
> will end up in better servers than the official ones. Community servers
> offer additional value that keep people playing TF2 longer.
>
> I know quite a few people who have stopped playing after their
> favorite server emptied out because of this change. They would rather not
> play TF2 than play on an official server which are laggy and full of
> hackers and griefers.
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 3:58 PM, Alexander Z wrote:
>
>> Fixing quickplay, however you want to see it "fixed", won't cause
>> more players to magically appear.
>> TF2 is running on borrowed time, and the playerbase will only be
>> getting smaller with time.
>>
>>
>> On 25 April 2014 23:42, Robert Paulson  wrote:
>>
>>> Those aren't "my" player counts, those are the global player counts.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 2:32 PM, James Haikin wrote:
>>>
 Hint: they DGAF about your player count.

 -James


 On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 2:30 PM, Robert Paulson <
 thepauls...@gmail.com> wrote:

> When will Valve realize was a bad decision? Player counts haven't
> been this low since last year, and there is no new FPS game.
>
> For those people claiming player counts get lower until summer
> vacation, they didn't drop as much as last year.
>
> After the change, the weekly high dropped by 5000. Compare to last
> year in the same time frame there is barely a 1000 player difference. 
> How
> much more obvious does it need to get?
>
> 2014
> http://i.imgur.com/xoUEHbr.png
>
> 2013
> http://i.imgur.com/Rp9y2kD.png
>
> data from steamcharts.com
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 9:18 PM, E. Olsen wrote:
>
>> I think the issue here, is...there really is no longer any reason
>> for valve servers to be the "default" servers once a player has 8-12 
>> hours
>> in the game.
>>
>> The minority of players who only want those random pub games on
>> valve servers now have that option - but the players who stick 
>> around in
>> the long-term will be the ones that find a "home" server/group of 
>> servers,
>> not those looking for the "x-box live" experience of random games 
>> with
>> random people every time. Honestly, if the TF2 team could see the 
>> chaos and
>> lack of teamwork that valve servers actually seem to encourage, I 
>> think
>> they would take a step back and realize that it really doesn't do 
>> the game
>> any justice. There is a reason some of the newer players have taken 
>> to
>> calling community servers "pubstomp" servers - it's because community
>> servers are where they fist come up against actual, cohesive 
>> teamwork - and
>> they're used to a bunch of random players just doing they're own 
>> thing.
>>
>> Frankly - I firmly believe the long-term health of the game rests
>

Re: [hlds] When will quickplay return to a level playing field?

[Robert Paulson]

I don't see how there could be a better place to discuss this. This
quickplay problem affects srcds servers and this is a mailing list for
servers that is visited by the people responsible for this change.

If Valve does not realize this is a problem, that is even more of a reason
to keep talking about it.

I don't think Valve doesn't care, they just don't know it is a problem.
Otherwise they wouldn't have wasted their time making quickpick.

They need to realize it is causing a net loss of players and quickplay
options and quickpick didn't solve the issue.


On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 4:33 PM, James Haikin  wrote:

> I'm just sick of people bitching about something that Valve has shown no
> indication of changing, in a place where it's rather patently inappropriate
> for the discussion to be taking place.
>
> -James
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 4:31 PM, Robert Paulson wrote:
>
>> "Empirical" evidence was already offered which you thought were "my"
>> players, as if I had tens of thousands of players. Those numbers are pulled
>> straight from Steam.
>>
>> What's the point of trolling this discussion? Don't you have anything
>> better to do?
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 4:14 PM, James Haikin  wrote:
>>
>>> Why hello there, anecdotal evidence. If you could go ahead and get us an
>>> actual cross-section of the playerbase, that'd be great.
>>>
>>> -James
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Robert Paulson 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 It might not cause more players to magically appear, but more of them
 will end up in better servers than the official ones. Community servers
 offer additional value that keep people playing TF2 longer.

 I know quite a few people who have stopped playing after their favorite
 server emptied out because of this change. They would rather not play TF2
 than play on an official server which are laggy and full of hackers and
 griefers.


 On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 3:58 PM, Alexander Z wrote:

> Fixing quickplay, however you want to see it "fixed", won't cause more
> players to magically appear.
> TF2 is running on borrowed time, and the playerbase will only be
> getting smaller with time.
>
>
> On 25 April 2014 23:42, Robert Paulson  wrote:
>
>> Those aren't "my" player counts, those are the global player counts.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 2:32 PM, James Haikin wrote:
>>
>>> Hint: they DGAF about your player count.
>>>
>>> -James
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 2:30 PM, Robert Paulson <
>>> thepauls...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 When will Valve realize was a bad decision? Player counts haven't
 been this low since last year, and there is no new FPS game.

 For those people claiming player counts get lower until summer
 vacation, they didn't drop as much as last year.

 After the change, the weekly high dropped by 5000. Compare to last
 year in the same time frame there is barely a 1000 player difference. 
 How
 much more obvious does it need to get?

 2014
 http://i.imgur.com/xoUEHbr.png

 2013
 http://i.imgur.com/Rp9y2kD.png

 data from steamcharts.com



 On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 9:18 PM, E. Olsen wrote:

> I think the issue here, is...there really is no longer any reason
> for valve servers to be the "default" servers once a player has 8-12 
> hours
> in the game.
>
> The minority of players who only want those random pub games on
> valve servers now have that option - but the players who stick around 
> in
> the long-term will be the ones that find a "home" server/group of 
> servers,
> not those looking for the "x-box live" experience of random games with
> random people every time. Honestly, if the TF2 team could see the 
> chaos and
> lack of teamwork that valve servers actually seem to encourage, I 
> think
> they would take a step back and realize that it really doesn't do the 
> game
> any justice. There is a reason some of the newer players have taken to
> calling community servers "pubstomp" servers - it's because community
> servers are where they fist come up against actual, cohesive teamwork 
> - and
> they're used to a bunch of random players just doing they're own 
> thing.
>
> Frankly - I firmly believe the long-term health of the game rests
> with community servers who provide diversity, supervision (to get rid 
> of
> the plethora of hackers/griefers, etc.), and a much better experience
> overall (not to mention higher skill levels).
>
> In short - I agree with Mr. Paulson - give the new players a a few
>

Re: [hlds] When will quickplay return to a level playing field?

[James Haikin]

I'm just sick of people bitching about something that Valve has shown no
indication of changing, in a place where it's rather patently inappropriate
for the discussion to be taking place.

-James


On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 4:31 PM, Robert Paulson wrote:

> "Empirical" evidence was already offered which you thought were "my"
> players, as if I had tens of thousands of players. Those numbers are pulled
> straight from Steam.
>
> What's the point of trolling this discussion? Don't you have anything
> better to do?
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 4:14 PM, James Haikin  wrote:
>
>> Why hello there, anecdotal evidence. If you could go ahead and get us an
>> actual cross-section of the playerbase, that'd be great.
>>
>> -James
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Robert Paulson wrote:
>>
>>> It might not cause more players to magically appear, but more of them
>>> will end up in better servers than the official ones. Community servers
>>> offer additional value that keep people playing TF2 longer.
>>>
>>> I know quite a few people who have stopped playing after their favorite
>>> server emptied out because of this change. They would rather not play TF2
>>> than play on an official server which are laggy and full of hackers and
>>> griefers.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 3:58 PM, Alexander Z wrote:
>>>
 Fixing quickplay, however you want to see it "fixed", won't cause more
 players to magically appear.
 TF2 is running on borrowed time, and the playerbase will only be
 getting smaller with time.


 On 25 April 2014 23:42, Robert Paulson  wrote:

> Those aren't "my" player counts, those are the global player counts.
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 2:32 PM, James Haikin wrote:
>
>> Hint: they DGAF about your player count.
>>
>> -James
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 2:30 PM, Robert Paulson <
>> thepauls...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> When will Valve realize was a bad decision? Player counts haven't
>>> been this low since last year, and there is no new FPS game.
>>>
>>> For those people claiming player counts get lower until summer
>>> vacation, they didn't drop as much as last year.
>>>
>>> After the change, the weekly high dropped by 5000. Compare to last
>>> year in the same time frame there is barely a 1000 player difference. 
>>> How
>>> much more obvious does it need to get?
>>>
>>> 2014
>>> http://i.imgur.com/xoUEHbr.png
>>>
>>> 2013
>>> http://i.imgur.com/Rp9y2kD.png
>>>
>>> data from steamcharts.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 9:18 PM, E. Olsen wrote:
>>>
 I think the issue here, is...there really is no longer any reason
 for valve servers to be the "default" servers once a player has 8-12 
 hours
 in the game.

 The minority of players who only want those random pub games on
 valve servers now have that option - but the players who stick around 
 in
 the long-term will be the ones that find a "home" server/group of 
 servers,
 not those looking for the "x-box live" experience of random games with
 random people every time. Honestly, if the TF2 team could see the 
 chaos and
 lack of teamwork that valve servers actually seem to encourage, I think
 they would take a step back and realize that it really doesn't do the 
 game
 any justice. There is a reason some of the newer players have taken to
 calling community servers "pubstomp" servers - it's because community
 servers are where they fist come up against actual, cohesive teamwork 
 - and
 they're used to a bunch of random players just doing they're own thing.

 Frankly - I firmly believe the long-term health of the game rests
 with community servers who provide diversity, supervision (to get rid 
 of
 the plethora of hackers/griefers, etc.), and a much better experience
 overall (not to mention higher skill levels).

 In short - I agree with Mr. Paulson - give the new players a a few
 hours of "mandatory" play on valve's servers to get their feet wet in 
 the
 game, and then open quickplay up to "all servers" by default and allow 
 them
 to see all the diversity that's out there. You've given the players the
 "option" of going back to "valve-only" if they should want it, now lets
 rollback the "mass punishment" (that was really killing a mosquito 
 with a
 sledgehammer), and give the server operators a fair shake again.


 On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 11:14 PM, Chris Oryschak <
 ch...@oryschak.com> wrote:

> It would be really nice to get some input on this from Valve.
>  Since the change every day gets worse and w

Re: [hlds] When will quickplay return to a level playing field?

[Robert Paulson]

"Empirical" evidence was already offered which you thought were "my"
players, as if I had tens of thousands of players. Those numbers are pulled
straight from Steam.

What's the point of trolling this discussion? Don't you have anything
better to do?


On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 4:14 PM, James Haikin  wrote:

> Why hello there, anecdotal evidence. If you could go ahead and get us an
> actual cross-section of the playerbase, that'd be great.
>
> -James
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Robert Paulson wrote:
>
>> It might not cause more players to magically appear, but more of them
>> will end up in better servers than the official ones. Community servers
>> offer additional value that keep people playing TF2 longer.
>>
>> I know quite a few people who have stopped playing after their favorite
>> server emptied out because of this change. They would rather not play TF2
>> than play on an official server which are laggy and full of hackers and
>> griefers.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 3:58 PM, Alexander Z wrote:
>>
>>> Fixing quickplay, however you want to see it "fixed", won't cause more
>>> players to magically appear.
>>> TF2 is running on borrowed time, and the playerbase will only be getting
>>> smaller with time.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 25 April 2014 23:42, Robert Paulson  wrote:
>>>
 Those aren't "my" player counts, those are the global player counts.


 On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 2:32 PM, James Haikin wrote:

> Hint: they DGAF about your player count.
>
> -James
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 2:30 PM, Robert Paulson  > wrote:
>
>> When will Valve realize was a bad decision? Player counts haven't
>> been this low since last year, and there is no new FPS game.
>>
>> For those people claiming player counts get lower until summer
>> vacation, they didn't drop as much as last year.
>>
>> After the change, the weekly high dropped by 5000. Compare to last
>> year in the same time frame there is barely a 1000 player difference. How
>> much more obvious does it need to get?
>>
>> 2014
>> http://i.imgur.com/xoUEHbr.png
>>
>> 2013
>> http://i.imgur.com/Rp9y2kD.png
>>
>> data from steamcharts.com
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 9:18 PM, E. Olsen wrote:
>>
>>> I think the issue here, is...there really is no longer any reason
>>> for valve servers to be the "default" servers once a player has 8-12 
>>> hours
>>> in the game.
>>>
>>> The minority of players who only want those random pub games on
>>> valve servers now have that option - but the players who stick around in
>>> the long-term will be the ones that find a "home" server/group of 
>>> servers,
>>> not those looking for the "x-box live" experience of random games with
>>> random people every time. Honestly, if the TF2 team could see the chaos 
>>> and
>>> lack of teamwork that valve servers actually seem to encourage, I think
>>> they would take a step back and realize that it really doesn't do the 
>>> game
>>> any justice. There is a reason some of the newer players have taken to
>>> calling community servers "pubstomp" servers - it's because community
>>> servers are where they fist come up against actual, cohesive teamwork - 
>>> and
>>> they're used to a bunch of random players just doing they're own thing.
>>>
>>> Frankly - I firmly believe the long-term health of the game rests
>>> with community servers who provide diversity, supervision (to get rid of
>>> the plethora of hackers/griefers, etc.), and a much better experience
>>> overall (not to mention higher skill levels).
>>>
>>> In short - I agree with Mr. Paulson - give the new players a a few
>>> hours of "mandatory" play on valve's servers to get their feet wet in 
>>> the
>>> game, and then open quickplay up to "all servers" by default and allow 
>>> them
>>> to see all the diversity that's out there. You've given the players the
>>> "option" of going back to "valve-only" if they should want it, now lets
>>> rollback the "mass punishment" (that was really killing a mosquito with 
>>> a
>>> sledgehammer), and give the server operators a fair shake again.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 11:14 PM, Chris Oryschak >> > wrote:
>>>
 It would be really nice to get some input on this from Valve.
  Since the change every day gets worse and worse for player activity 
 on my
 servers thanks to the QP changes and lack of new players having the 
 ability
 to find my servers.
 You can view the beautiful downward trend caused by these changes:

 http://i.imgur.com/uvlq056.png

 If anyone else is running the Player Analytics plugin just edit
 "data/sessions.php" and change "30 DAY" to "90 DAY".
 I'd lov

Re: [hlds] When will quickplay return to a level playing field?

[James Haikin]

Why hello there, anecdotal evidence. If you could go ahead and get us an
actual cross-section of the playerbase, that'd be great.

-James


On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Robert Paulson wrote:

> It might not cause more players to magically appear, but more of them will
> end up in better servers than the official ones. Community servers offer
> additional value that keep people playing TF2 longer.
>
> I know quite a few people who have stopped playing after their favorite
> server emptied out because of this change. They would rather not play TF2
> than play on an official server which are laggy and full of hackers and
> griefers.
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 3:58 PM, Alexander Z wrote:
>
>> Fixing quickplay, however you want to see it "fixed", won't cause more
>> players to magically appear.
>> TF2 is running on borrowed time, and the playerbase will only be getting
>> smaller with time.
>>
>>
>> On 25 April 2014 23:42, Robert Paulson  wrote:
>>
>>> Those aren't "my" player counts, those are the global player counts.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 2:32 PM, James Haikin wrote:
>>>
 Hint: they DGAF about your player count.

 -James


 On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 2:30 PM, Robert Paulson 
 wrote:

> When will Valve realize was a bad decision? Player counts haven't been
> this low since last year, and there is no new FPS game.
>
> For those people claiming player counts get lower until summer
> vacation, they didn't drop as much as last year.
>
> After the change, the weekly high dropped by 5000. Compare to last
> year in the same time frame there is barely a 1000 player difference. How
> much more obvious does it need to get?
>
> 2014
> http://i.imgur.com/xoUEHbr.png
>
> 2013
> http://i.imgur.com/Rp9y2kD.png
>
> data from steamcharts.com
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 9:18 PM, E. Olsen wrote:
>
>> I think the issue here, is...there really is no longer any reason for
>> valve servers to be the "default" servers once a player has 8-12 hours in
>> the game.
>>
>> The minority of players who only want those random pub games on valve
>> servers now have that option - but the players who stick around in the
>> long-term will be the ones that find a "home" server/group of servers, 
>> not
>> those looking for the "x-box live" experience of random games with random
>> people every time. Honestly, if the TF2 team could see the chaos and lack
>> of teamwork that valve servers actually seem to encourage, I think they
>> would take a step back and realize that it really doesn't do the game any
>> justice. There is a reason some of the newer players have taken to 
>> calling
>> community servers "pubstomp" servers - it's because community servers are
>> where they fist come up against actual, cohesive teamwork - and they're
>> used to a bunch of random players just doing they're own thing.
>>
>> Frankly - I firmly believe the long-term health of the game rests
>> with community servers who provide diversity, supervision (to get rid of
>> the plethora of hackers/griefers, etc.), and a much better experience
>> overall (not to mention higher skill levels).
>>
>> In short - I agree with Mr. Paulson - give the new players a a few
>> hours of "mandatory" play on valve's servers to get their feet wet in the
>> game, and then open quickplay up to "all servers" by default and allow 
>> them
>> to see all the diversity that's out there. You've given the players the
>> "option" of going back to "valve-only" if they should want it, now lets
>> rollback the "mass punishment" (that was really killing a mosquito with a
>> sledgehammer), and give the server operators a fair shake again.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 11:14 PM, Chris Oryschak 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> It would be really nice to get some input on this from Valve.  Since
>>> the change every day gets worse and worse for player activity on my 
>>> servers
>>> thanks to the QP changes and lack of new players having the ability to 
>>> find
>>> my servers.
>>> You can view the beautiful downward trend caused by these changes:
>>>
>>> http://i.imgur.com/uvlq056.png
>>>
>>> If anyone else is running the Player Analytics plugin just edit
>>> "data/sessions.php" and change "30 DAY" to "90 DAY".
>>> I'd love to see the same trends from other communities to help
>>> reinforce this bad change for all server ops.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 9:09 PM, Robert Paulson <
>>> thepauls...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 As I said before, the problem is not that the official servers only
 option exists, the problem is that it is on by default. People too 
 lazy to
 use the browser are too lazy to use

Re: [hlds] When will quickplay return to a level playing field?

[Robert Paulson]

It might not cause more players to magically appear, but more of them will
end up in better servers than the official ones. Community servers offer
additional value that keep people playing TF2 longer.

I know quite a few people who have stopped playing after their favorite
server emptied out because of this change. They would rather not play TF2
than play on an official server which are laggy and full of hackers and
griefers.


On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 3:58 PM, Alexander Z  wrote:

> Fixing quickplay, however you want to see it "fixed", won't cause more
> players to magically appear.
> TF2 is running on borrowed time, and the playerbase will only be getting
> smaller with time.
>
>
> On 25 April 2014 23:42, Robert Paulson  wrote:
>
>> Those aren't "my" player counts, those are the global player counts.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 2:32 PM, James Haikin  wrote:
>>
>>> Hint: they DGAF about your player count.
>>>
>>> -James
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 2:30 PM, Robert Paulson 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 When will Valve realize was a bad decision? Player counts haven't been
 this low since last year, and there is no new FPS game.

 For those people claiming player counts get lower until summer
 vacation, they didn't drop as much as last year.

 After the change, the weekly high dropped by 5000. Compare to last year
 in the same time frame there is barely a 1000 player difference. How much
 more obvious does it need to get?

 2014
 http://i.imgur.com/xoUEHbr.png

 2013
 http://i.imgur.com/Rp9y2kD.png

 data from steamcharts.com



 On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 9:18 PM, E. Olsen  wrote:

> I think the issue here, is...there really is no longer any reason for
> valve servers to be the "default" servers once a player has 8-12 hours in
> the game.
>
> The minority of players who only want those random pub games on valve
> servers now have that option - but the players who stick around in the
> long-term will be the ones that find a "home" server/group of servers, not
> those looking for the "x-box live" experience of random games with random
> people every time. Honestly, if the TF2 team could see the chaos and lack
> of teamwork that valve servers actually seem to encourage, I think they
> would take a step back and realize that it really doesn't do the game any
> justice. There is a reason some of the newer players have taken to calling
> community servers "pubstomp" servers - it's because community servers are
> where they fist come up against actual, cohesive teamwork - and they're
> used to a bunch of random players just doing they're own thing.
>
> Frankly - I firmly believe the long-term health of the game rests with
> community servers who provide diversity, supervision (to get rid of the
> plethora of hackers/griefers, etc.), and a much better experience overall
> (not to mention higher skill levels).
>
> In short - I agree with Mr. Paulson - give the new players a a few
> hours of "mandatory" play on valve's servers to get their feet wet in the
> game, and then open quickplay up to "all servers" by default and allow 
> them
> to see all the diversity that's out there. You've given the players the
> "option" of going back to "valve-only" if they should want it, now lets
> rollback the "mass punishment" (that was really killing a mosquito with a
> sledgehammer), and give the server operators a fair shake again.
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 11:14 PM, Chris Oryschak 
> wrote:
>
>> It would be really nice to get some input on this from Valve.  Since
>> the change every day gets worse and worse for player activity on my 
>> servers
>> thanks to the QP changes and lack of new players having the ability to 
>> find
>> my servers.
>> You can view the beautiful downward trend caused by these changes:
>>
>> http://i.imgur.com/uvlq056.png
>>
>> If anyone else is running the Player Analytics plugin just edit
>> "data/sessions.php" and change "30 DAY" to "90 DAY".
>> I'd love to see the same trends from other communities to help
>> reinforce this bad change for all server ops.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 9:09 PM, Robert Paulson <
>> thepauls...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> As I said before, the problem is not that the official servers only
>>> option exists, the problem is that it is on by default. People too lazy 
>>> to
>>> use the browser are too lazy to use options.
>>>
>>> Again I would like to suggest automatically un-checking the official
>>> servers only after 4-5 hours of play. Anything that requires manual
>>> intervention will not solve the problem.
>>>
>>> For anyone arguing community servers are inferior again, I refer you
>>> to this post.
>>>
>

Re: [hlds] When will quickplay return to a level playing field?

[Alexander Z]

Fixing quickplay, however you want to see it "fixed", won't cause more
players to magically appear.
TF2 is running on borrowed time, and the playerbase will only be getting
smaller with time.


On 25 April 2014 23:42, Robert Paulson  wrote:

> Those aren't "my" player counts, those are the global player counts.
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 2:32 PM, James Haikin  wrote:
>
>> Hint: they DGAF about your player count.
>>
>> -James
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 2:30 PM, Robert Paulson wrote:
>>
>>> When will Valve realize was a bad decision? Player counts haven't been
>>> this low since last year, and there is no new FPS game.
>>>
>>> For those people claiming player counts get lower until summer vacation,
>>> they didn't drop as much as last year.
>>>
>>> After the change, the weekly high dropped by 5000. Compare to last year
>>> in the same time frame there is barely a 1000 player difference. How much
>>> more obvious does it need to get?
>>>
>>> 2014
>>> http://i.imgur.com/xoUEHbr.png
>>>
>>> 2013
>>> http://i.imgur.com/Rp9y2kD.png
>>>
>>> data from steamcharts.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 9:18 PM, E. Olsen  wrote:
>>>
 I think the issue here, is...there really is no longer any reason for
 valve servers to be the "default" servers once a player has 8-12 hours in
 the game.

 The minority of players who only want those random pub games on valve
 servers now have that option - but the players who stick around in the
 long-term will be the ones that find a "home" server/group of servers, not
 those looking for the "x-box live" experience of random games with random
 people every time. Honestly, if the TF2 team could see the chaos and lack
 of teamwork that valve servers actually seem to encourage, I think they
 would take a step back and realize that it really doesn't do the game any
 justice. There is a reason some of the newer players have taken to calling
 community servers "pubstomp" servers - it's because community servers are
 where they fist come up against actual, cohesive teamwork - and they're
 used to a bunch of random players just doing they're own thing.

 Frankly - I firmly believe the long-term health of the game rests with
 community servers who provide diversity, supervision (to get rid of the
 plethora of hackers/griefers, etc.), and a much better experience overall
 (not to mention higher skill levels).

 In short - I agree with Mr. Paulson - give the new players a a few
 hours of "mandatory" play on valve's servers to get their feet wet in the
 game, and then open quickplay up to "all servers" by default and allow them
 to see all the diversity that's out there. You've given the players the
 "option" of going back to "valve-only" if they should want it, now lets
 rollback the "mass punishment" (that was really killing a mosquito with a
 sledgehammer), and give the server operators a fair shake again.


 On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 11:14 PM, Chris Oryschak wrote:

> It would be really nice to get some input on this from Valve.  Since
> the change every day gets worse and worse for player activity on my 
> servers
> thanks to the QP changes and lack of new players having the ability to 
> find
> my servers.
> You can view the beautiful downward trend caused by these changes:
>
> http://i.imgur.com/uvlq056.png
>
> If anyone else is running the Player Analytics plugin just edit
> "data/sessions.php" and change "30 DAY" to "90 DAY".
> I'd love to see the same trends from other communities to help
> reinforce this bad change for all server ops.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 9:09 PM, Robert Paulson  > wrote:
>
>> As I said before, the problem is not that the official servers only
>> option exists, the problem is that it is on by default. People too lazy 
>> to
>> use the browser are too lazy to use options.
>>
>> Again I would like to suggest automatically un-checking the official
>> servers only after 4-5 hours of play. Anything that requires manual
>> intervention will not solve the problem.
>>
>> For anyone arguing community servers are inferior again, I refer you
>> to this post.
>>
>>
>> https://www.mail-archive.com/hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com/msg74795.html
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 5:03 PM, 1nsane <1nsane...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> What about something similar like before where valve servers had an
>>> advantage over community servers with new players being sent to them 
>>> (due
>>> to the valve server score boost)?
>>>
>>> Except this time just make it so all new players get sent to valve
>>> servers by default. And then after a certain amount of hours played it
>>> either defaults to all servers or pops up a message asking if community
>

Re: [hlds] Client updates released for TF2, CS:S, DoD:S, and HL2:DM

[David Koontz]

Thank you muchly, Valve!


On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 2:54 PM, A Fearts  wrote:

> Thank you for fixing this so quickly.
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 5:45 PM, Eric Smith wrote:
>
>> We've released client updates for TF2, CS:S, DoD:S, and HL2:DM that
>> should fix the decompression problems clients are having with large .bsp
>> files being downloaded from servers.
>>
>> -Eric
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> please visit:
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>>
>
>
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Re: [hlds] Client updates released for TF2, CS:S, DoD:S, and HL2:DM

[A Fearts]

Thank you for fixing this so quickly.


On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 5:45 PM, Eric Smith  wrote:

> We've released client updates for TF2, CS:S, DoD:S, and HL2:DM that should
> fix the decompression problems clients are having with large .bsp files
> being downloaded from servers.
>
> -Eric
>
>
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> please visit:
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Re: [hlds] Client updates released for TF2, CS:S, DoD:S, and HL2:DM

[Daniel Barreiro]

Thanks Eric


On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 5:45 PM, Eric Smith  wrote:

> We've released client updates for TF2, CS:S, DoD:S, and HL2:DM that should
> fix the decompression problems clients are having with large .bsp files
> being downloaded from servers.
>
> -Eric
>
>
> ___
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> please visit:
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>
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[hlds] Client updates released for TF2, CS:S, DoD:S, and HL2:DM

[Eric Smith]

We've released client updates for TF2, CS:S, DoD:S, and HL2:DM that should fix 
the decompression problems clients are having with large .bsp files being 
downloaded from servers.

-Eric


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Re: [hlds] When will quickplay return to a level playing field?

[Robert Paulson]

Those aren't "my" player counts, those are the global player counts.


On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 2:32 PM, James Haikin  wrote:

> Hint: they DGAF about your player count.
>
> -James
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 2:30 PM, Robert Paulson wrote:
>
>> When will Valve realize was a bad decision? Player counts haven't been
>> this low since last year, and there is no new FPS game.
>>
>> For those people claiming player counts get lower until summer vacation,
>> they didn't drop as much as last year.
>>
>> After the change, the weekly high dropped by 5000. Compare to last year
>> in the same time frame there is barely a 1000 player difference. How much
>> more obvious does it need to get?
>>
>> 2014
>> http://i.imgur.com/xoUEHbr.png
>>
>> 2013
>> http://i.imgur.com/Rp9y2kD.png
>>
>> data from steamcharts.com
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 9:18 PM, E. Olsen  wrote:
>>
>>> I think the issue here, is...there really is no longer any reason for
>>> valve servers to be the "default" servers once a player has 8-12 hours in
>>> the game.
>>>
>>> The minority of players who only want those random pub games on valve
>>> servers now have that option - but the players who stick around in the
>>> long-term will be the ones that find a "home" server/group of servers, not
>>> those looking for the "x-box live" experience of random games with random
>>> people every time. Honestly, if the TF2 team could see the chaos and lack
>>> of teamwork that valve servers actually seem to encourage, I think they
>>> would take a step back and realize that it really doesn't do the game any
>>> justice. There is a reason some of the newer players have taken to calling
>>> community servers "pubstomp" servers - it's because community servers are
>>> where they fist come up against actual, cohesive teamwork - and they're
>>> used to a bunch of random players just doing they're own thing.
>>>
>>> Frankly - I firmly believe the long-term health of the game rests with
>>> community servers who provide diversity, supervision (to get rid of the
>>> plethora of hackers/griefers, etc.), and a much better experience overall
>>> (not to mention higher skill levels).
>>>
>>> In short - I agree with Mr. Paulson - give the new players a a few hours
>>> of "mandatory" play on valve's servers to get their feet wet in the game,
>>> and then open quickplay up to "all servers" by default and allow them to
>>> see all the diversity that's out there. You've given the players the
>>> "option" of going back to "valve-only" if they should want it, now lets
>>> rollback the "mass punishment" (that was really killing a mosquito with a
>>> sledgehammer), and give the server operators a fair shake again.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 11:14 PM, Chris Oryschak wrote:
>>>
 It would be really nice to get some input on this from Valve.  Since
 the change every day gets worse and worse for player activity on my servers
 thanks to the QP changes and lack of new players having the ability to find
 my servers.
 You can view the beautiful downward trend caused by these changes:

 http://i.imgur.com/uvlq056.png

 If anyone else is running the Player Analytics plugin just edit
 "data/sessions.php" and change "30 DAY" to "90 DAY".
 I'd love to see the same trends from other communities to help
 reinforce this bad change for all server ops.





 On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 9:09 PM, Robert Paulson 
 wrote:

> As I said before, the problem is not that the official servers only
> option exists, the problem is that it is on by default. People too lazy to
> use the browser are too lazy to use options.
>
> Again I would like to suggest automatically un-checking the official
> servers only after 4-5 hours of play. Anything that requires manual
> intervention will not solve the problem.
>
> For anyone arguing community servers are inferior again, I refer you
> to this post.
>
>
> https://www.mail-archive.com/hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com/msg74795.html
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 5:03 PM, 1nsane <1nsane...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> What about something similar like before where valve servers had an
>> advantage over community servers with new players being sent to them (due
>> to the valve server score boost)?
>>
>> Except this time just make it so all new players get sent to valve
>> servers by default. And then after a certain amount of hours played it
>> either defaults to all servers or pops up a message asking if community
>> servers should be included and explaining a little bit about the other
>> quickplay options and how to access them.
>>
>> I talked to plenty of players who weren't aware that quickplay search
>> can be customized or that you need to click on the gear icon to bring up
>> advanced search options. There's plenty of people who hate crits or 
>> default
>> r

Re: [hlds] When will quickplay return to a level playing field?

[James Haikin]

Hint: they DGAF about your player count.

-James


On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 2:30 PM, Robert Paulson wrote:

> When will Valve realize was a bad decision? Player counts haven't been
> this low since last year, and there is no new FPS game.
>
> For those people claiming player counts get lower until summer vacation,
> they didn't drop as much as last year.
>
> After the change, the weekly high dropped by 5000. Compare to last year in
> the same time frame there is barely a 1000 player difference. How much more
> obvious does it need to get?
>
> 2014
> http://i.imgur.com/xoUEHbr.png
>
> 2013
> http://i.imgur.com/Rp9y2kD.png
>
> data from steamcharts.com
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 9:18 PM, E. Olsen  wrote:
>
>> I think the issue here, is...there really is no longer any reason for
>> valve servers to be the "default" servers once a player has 8-12 hours in
>> the game.
>>
>> The minority of players who only want those random pub games on valve
>> servers now have that option - but the players who stick around in the
>> long-term will be the ones that find a "home" server/group of servers, not
>> those looking for the "x-box live" experience of random games with random
>> people every time. Honestly, if the TF2 team could see the chaos and lack
>> of teamwork that valve servers actually seem to encourage, I think they
>> would take a step back and realize that it really doesn't do the game any
>> justice. There is a reason some of the newer players have taken to calling
>> community servers "pubstomp" servers - it's because community servers are
>> where they fist come up against actual, cohesive teamwork - and they're
>> used to a bunch of random players just doing they're own thing.
>>
>> Frankly - I firmly believe the long-term health of the game rests with
>> community servers who provide diversity, supervision (to get rid of the
>> plethora of hackers/griefers, etc.), and a much better experience overall
>> (not to mention higher skill levels).
>>
>> In short - I agree with Mr. Paulson - give the new players a a few hours
>> of "mandatory" play on valve's servers to get their feet wet in the game,
>> and then open quickplay up to "all servers" by default and allow them to
>> see all the diversity that's out there. You've given the players the
>> "option" of going back to "valve-only" if they should want it, now lets
>> rollback the "mass punishment" (that was really killing a mosquito with a
>> sledgehammer), and give the server operators a fair shake again.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 11:14 PM, Chris Oryschak wrote:
>>
>>> It would be really nice to get some input on this from Valve.  Since the
>>> change every day gets worse and worse for player activity on my servers
>>> thanks to the QP changes and lack of new players having the ability to find
>>> my servers.
>>> You can view the beautiful downward trend caused by these changes:
>>>
>>> http://i.imgur.com/uvlq056.png
>>>
>>> If anyone else is running the Player Analytics plugin just edit
>>> "data/sessions.php" and change "30 DAY" to "90 DAY".
>>> I'd love to see the same trends from other communities to help reinforce
>>> this bad change for all server ops.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 9:09 PM, Robert Paulson 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 As I said before, the problem is not that the official servers only
 option exists, the problem is that it is on by default. People too lazy to
 use the browser are too lazy to use options.

 Again I would like to suggest automatically un-checking the official
 servers only after 4-5 hours of play. Anything that requires manual
 intervention will not solve the problem.

 For anyone arguing community servers are inferior again, I refer you to
 this post.


 https://www.mail-archive.com/hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com/msg74795.html


 On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 5:03 PM, 1nsane <1nsane...@gmail.com> wrote:

> What about something similar like before where valve servers had an
> advantage over community servers with new players being sent to them (due
> to the valve server score boost)?
>
> Except this time just make it so all new players get sent to valve
> servers by default. And then after a certain amount of hours played it
> either defaults to all servers or pops up a message asking if community
> servers should be included and explaining a little bit about the other
> quickplay options and how to access them.
>
> I talked to plenty of players who weren't aware that quickplay search
> can be customized or that you need to click on the gear icon to bring up
> advanced search options. There's plenty of people who hate crits or 
> default
> respawn times and yet they're not even aware of this functionality being
> part of quickplay. Or perhaps that's on purpose and maybe that's the 
> reason
> why the icon is so tiny...
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 7:31 P

Re: [hlds] When will quickplay return to a level playing field?

[Robert Paulson]

When will Valve realize was a bad decision? Player counts haven't been this
low since last year, and there is no new FPS game.

For those people claiming player counts get lower until summer vacation,
they didn't drop as much as last year.

After the change, the weekly high dropped by 5000. Compare to last year in
the same time frame there is barely a 1000 player difference. How much more
obvious does it need to get?

2014
http://i.imgur.com/xoUEHbr.png

2013
http://i.imgur.com/Rp9y2kD.png

data from steamcharts.com



On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 9:18 PM, E. Olsen  wrote:

> I think the issue here, is...there really is no longer any reason for
> valve servers to be the "default" servers once a player has 8-12 hours in
> the game.
>
> The minority of players who only want those random pub games on valve
> servers now have that option - but the players who stick around in the
> long-term will be the ones that find a "home" server/group of servers, not
> those looking for the "x-box live" experience of random games with random
> people every time. Honestly, if the TF2 team could see the chaos and lack
> of teamwork that valve servers actually seem to encourage, I think they
> would take a step back and realize that it really doesn't do the game any
> justice. There is a reason some of the newer players have taken to calling
> community servers "pubstomp" servers - it's because community servers are
> where they fist come up against actual, cohesive teamwork - and they're
> used to a bunch of random players just doing they're own thing.
>
> Frankly - I firmly believe the long-term health of the game rests with
> community servers who provide diversity, supervision (to get rid of the
> plethora of hackers/griefers, etc.), and a much better experience overall
> (not to mention higher skill levels).
>
> In short - I agree with Mr. Paulson - give the new players a a few hours
> of "mandatory" play on valve's servers to get their feet wet in the game,
> and then open quickplay up to "all servers" by default and allow them to
> see all the diversity that's out there. You've given the players the
> "option" of going back to "valve-only" if they should want it, now lets
> rollback the "mass punishment" (that was really killing a mosquito with a
> sledgehammer), and give the server operators a fair shake again.
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 11:14 PM, Chris Oryschak wrote:
>
>> It would be really nice to get some input on this from Valve.  Since the
>> change every day gets worse and worse for player activity on my servers
>> thanks to the QP changes and lack of new players having the ability to find
>> my servers.
>> You can view the beautiful downward trend caused by these changes:
>>
>> http://i.imgur.com/uvlq056.png
>>
>> If anyone else is running the Player Analytics plugin just edit
>> "data/sessions.php" and change "30 DAY" to "90 DAY".
>> I'd love to see the same trends from other communities to help reinforce
>> this bad change for all server ops.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 9:09 PM, Robert Paulson wrote:
>>
>>> As I said before, the problem is not that the official servers only
>>> option exists, the problem is that it is on by default. People too lazy to
>>> use the browser are too lazy to use options.
>>>
>>> Again I would like to suggest automatically un-checking the official
>>> servers only after 4-5 hours of play. Anything that requires manual
>>> intervention will not solve the problem.
>>>
>>> For anyone arguing community servers are inferior again, I refer you to
>>> this post.
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com/msg74795.html
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 5:03 PM, 1nsane <1nsane...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 What about something similar like before where valve servers had an
 advantage over community servers with new players being sent to them (due
 to the valve server score boost)?

 Except this time just make it so all new players get sent to valve
 servers by default. And then after a certain amount of hours played it
 either defaults to all servers or pops up a message asking if community
 servers should be included and explaining a little bit about the other
 quickplay options and how to access them.

 I talked to plenty of players who weren't aware that quickplay search
 can be customized or that you need to click on the gear icon to bring up
 advanced search options. There's plenty of people who hate crits or default
 respawn times and yet they're not even aware of this functionality being
 part of quickplay. Or perhaps that's on purpose and maybe that's the reason
 why the icon is so tiny...


 On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 7:31 PM, Jason Tango wrote:

> As we approach the 2-month mark since Valve's servers were made the
> "default" servers for all quickplay players, can the TF2 team give us a
> time frame when they will return the system to a "level playing

Re: [hlds] [hlds_announce] Mandatory CS:S, DoD:S, and HL2:DM updates coming soon

[ics]

Default 16, servers can set up to 64. Only server setting matters. If 
client has 16, he can still download the map more than 16 megs.


-ics

Bubka3 kirjoitti:

So is not even coded to the cvar, it's just hard coded to 64MB?


Daniel Barreiro 
Friday, April 25, 2014 10:04 AM

The default  is 16, but I did a test and even with it set to 16 on 
the client, it only  prevented it if it was larger than 64MB.


Sent from my Android Phone. Please ignore any errors.

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Bubka3 
Friday, April 25, 2014 8:40 AM
Isn't the limit by default 16? I highly doubt many clients have 
changed their cvar setting to allow for a 64MB download...



Kyle Sanderson 
Friday, April 25, 2014 1:27 AM
I don't know why this update was required for servers.

If we can't extract maps larger then 64M, then this is indeed a 
significant problem. Unfortunately a lot of ignorance is present with 
shipping assets, and since the VPK system is busted by design. This 
definitely needs to get backed out before the weekend. There's a 
great deal of CS:S maps that we, along with many other servers, 
unfortunately host that are over 250M compressed with bz2. 
Uncompressed they're surpassing 500M, primarily due to the fact 
assets can't be shipped and mounted via versioned VPKs.


Regards,
Kyle.



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Daniel Barreiro 
Thursday, April 24, 2014 10:58 PM
I reported it to Eric.  It's an issue with how they fixed the 
decompressed file size check.


A TL;DR of the entire situation is I found an exploit that allowed 
you to zip-bomb clients over fastdl. Reported it. They fixed it by 
making FastDL listen to net_maxfilesize. Net_maxfilesize is 
engine-locked to 64MB, which means even if the map is sent over 
FastDL, if the uncompressed file is more than 64MB, it wont download 
it on the client.


I sent him an email about this issue this caused, and asked if they 
could whitelist BSP files.  The zip-bomb exploit wont work with BSPs 
as you can only send a single bsp file over FastDL per connect, and 
the server has to be running the map. That would cause the exploit to 
not work.




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Bubka3 
Thursday, April 24, 2014 10:53 PM
Is anyone having issues with map downloads after this? It says the 
map is missing. I checked my FastDL web server logs and it returned 
HTTP 200 to the client.





--
Bubka3


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Re: [hlds] [hlds_announce] Mandatory CS:S, DoD:S, and HL2:DM updates coming soon

[Bubka3]

So is not even coded to the cvar, it's just hard coded to 64MB?


Daniel Barreiro 
Friday, April 25, 2014 10:04 AM

The default  is 16, but I did a test and even with it set to 16 on the 
client, it only  prevented it if it was larger than 64MB.


Sent from my Android Phone. Please ignore any errors.

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Bubka3 
Friday, April 25, 2014 8:40 AM
Isn't the limit by default 16? I highly doubt many clients have 
changed their cvar setting to allow for a 64MB download...



Kyle Sanderson 
Friday, April 25, 2014 1:27 AM
I don't know why this update was required for servers.

If we can't extract maps larger then 64M, then this is indeed a 
significant problem. Unfortunately a lot of ignorance is present with 
shipping assets, and since the VPK system is busted by design. This 
definitely needs to get backed out before the weekend. There's a great 
deal of CS:S maps that we, along with many other servers, 
unfortunately host that are over 250M compressed with bz2. 
Uncompressed they're surpassing 500M, primarily due to the fact assets 
can't be shipped and mounted via versioned VPKs.


Regards,
Kyle.



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Daniel Barreiro 
Thursday, April 24, 2014 10:58 PM
I reported it to Eric.  It's an issue with how they fixed the 
decompressed file size check.


A TL;DR of the entire situation is I found an exploit that allowed you 
to zip-bomb clients over fastdl. Reported it. They fixed it by making 
FastDL listen to net_maxfilesize. Net_maxfilesize is engine-locked to 
64MB, which means even if the map is sent over FastDL, if the 
uncompressed file is more than 64MB, it wont download it on the client.


I sent him an email about this issue this caused, and asked if they 
could whitelist BSP files.  The zip-bomb exploit wont work with BSPs 
as you can only send a single bsp file over FastDL per connect, and 
the server has to be running the map. That would cause the exploit to 
not work.




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Bubka3 
Thursday, April 24, 2014 10:53 PM
Is anyone having issues with map downloads after this? It says the map 
is missing. I checked my FastDL web server logs and it returned HTTP 
200 to the client.





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Re: [hlds] [hlds_announce] Mandatory CS:S, DoD:S, and HL2:DM updates coming soon

[Daniel Barreiro]

The default  is 16, but I did a test and even with it set to 16 on the
client, it only  prevented it if it was larger than 64MB.

Sent from my Android Phone. Please ignore any errors.
On Apr 25, 2014 8:41 AM, "Bubka3"  wrote:

> Isn't the limit by default 16? I highly doubt many clients have changed
> their cvar setting to allow for a 64MB download...
>
>   Kyle Sanderson 
>  Friday, April 25, 2014 1:27 AM
> I don't know why this update was required for servers.
>
> If we can't extract maps larger then 64M, then this is indeed a
> significant problem. Unfortunately a lot of ignorance is present with
> shipping assets, and since the VPK system is busted by design. This
> definitely needs to get backed out before the weekend. There's a great deal
> of CS:S maps that we, along with many other servers, unfortunately host
> that are over 250M compressed with bz2. Uncompressed they're surpassing
> 500M, primarily due to the fact assets can't be shipped and mounted via
> versioned VPKs.
>
> Regards,
> Kyle.
>
>
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>   Daniel Barreiro 
>  Thursday, April 24, 2014 10:58 PM
> I reported it to Eric.  It's an issue with how they fixed the decompressed
> file size check.
>
> A TL;DR of the entire situation is I found an exploit that allowed you to
> zip-bomb clients over fastdl. Reported it. They fixed it by making FastDL
> listen to net_maxfilesize. Net_maxfilesize is engine-locked to 64MB, which
> means even if the map is sent over FastDL, if the uncompressed file is more
> than 64MB, it wont download it on the client.
>
> I sent him an email about this issue this caused, and asked if they could
> whitelist BSP files.  The zip-bomb exploit wont work with BSPs as you can
> only send a single bsp file over FastDL per connect, and the server has to
> be running the map. That would cause the exploit to not work.
>
>
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>   Bubka3 
>  Thursday, April 24, 2014 10:53 PM
>  Is anyone having issues with map downloads after this? It says the map is
> missing. I checked my FastDL web server logs and it returned HTTP 200 to
> the client.
>
>
>   Eric Smith 
>  Thursday, April 24, 2014 7:14 PM
> The updates have been released.
>
> -Eric
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: hlds_announce-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [
> mailto:hlds_announce-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com]
> On Behalf Of Eric Smith
> Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2014 3:59 PM
> To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list (
> hlds@list.valvesoftware.com); Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing
> list (hlds_li...@list.valvesoftware.com); '
> hlds_annou...@list.valvesoftware.com' (
> hlds_annou...@list.valvesoftware.com)
> Subject: [hlds_announce] Mandatory CS:S, DoD:S, and HL2:DM updates coming
> soon
>
> We're releasing mandatory updates for CS:S, DoD:S, and HL2:DM. The notes
> for the updates are below. The new version for each game will be 2198641.
>
> The updates should be out in about 15 minutes.
>
> -Eric
>
> ==
>
> - Fixed an issue where plugin_load may load a non-binary file type
> - Fixed an issue where decompressed file sizes were not being checked by
> the engine
>
>
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> please visit:
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>
>
> --
> Bubka3 
>
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>
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Re: [hlds] [hlds_announce] Mandatory CS:S, DoD:S, and HL2:DM updates coming soon

[Bubka3]

Isn't the limit by default 16? I highly doubt many clients have changed 
their cvar setting to allow for a 64MB download...



Kyle Sanderson 
Friday, April 25, 2014 1:27 AM
I don't know why this update was required for servers.

If we can't extract maps larger then 64M, then this is indeed a 
significant problem. Unfortunately a lot of ignorance is present with 
shipping assets, and since the VPK system is busted by design. This 
definitely needs to get backed out before the weekend. There's a great 
deal of CS:S maps that we, along with many other servers, 
unfortunately host that are over 250M compressed with bz2. 
Uncompressed they're surpassing 500M, primarily due to the fact assets 
can't be shipped and mounted via versioned VPKs.


Regards,
Kyle.



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Daniel Barreiro 
Thursday, April 24, 2014 10:58 PM
I reported it to Eric.  It's an issue with how they fixed the 
decompressed file size check.


A TL;DR of the entire situation is I found an exploit that allowed you 
to zip-bomb clients over fastdl. Reported it. They fixed it by making 
FastDL listen to net_maxfilesize. Net_maxfilesize is engine-locked to 
64MB, which means even if the map is sent over FastDL, if the 
uncompressed file is more than 64MB, it wont download it on the client.


I sent him an email about this issue this caused, and asked if they 
could whitelist BSP files.  The zip-bomb exploit wont work with BSPs 
as you can only send a single bsp file over FastDL per connect, and 
the server has to be running the map. That would cause the exploit to 
not work.




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Bubka3 
Thursday, April 24, 2014 10:53 PM
Is anyone having issues with map downloads after this? It says the map 
is missing. I checked my FastDL web server logs and it returned HTTP 
200 to the client.



Eric Smith 
Thursday, April 24, 2014 7:14 PM
The updates have been released.

-Eric


-Original Message-
From: hlds_announce-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com 
[mailto:hlds_announce-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of 
Eric Smith

Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2014 3:59 PM
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list 
(hlds@list.valvesoftware.com); Half-Life dedicated Linux server 
mailing list (hlds_li...@list.valvesoftware.com); 
'hlds_annou...@list.valvesoftware.com' 
(hlds_annou...@list.valvesoftware.com)
Subject: [hlds_announce] Mandatory CS:S, DoD:S, and HL2:DM updates 
coming soon


We're releasing mandatory updates for CS:S, DoD:S, and HL2:DM. The 
notes for the updates are below. The new version for each game will be 
2198641.


The updates should be out in about 15 minutes.

-Eric

==

- Fixed an issue where plugin_load may load a non-binary file type
- Fixed an issue where decompressed file sizes were not being checked 
by the engine



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Bubka3
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