Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs

[Robert Paulson]

This would never work. It is impossible to automatically tell if a webpage
isn't a rules listing or a backpack page. Anyone who ran 32 slots knows any
sort of penalty practically removes you from quickplay because there are
too many servers. Since you ran ProTF2 until being banned for fake players
3 times, you should know better than this.

There is one solution already suggested before that would've solved the
reloading ads in the background without completely crippling the MOTD.
Simply block the webpage usermessage if it exceeds a rate limit such as 2
times per 10 minutes.

Speaking to the TF2 devs this would literally only take 5 extra minutes of
coding. There is already code in place for rate limiting inside A2SINFO
handling, so you could copy and paste that. Then insert an if statement
inside the usermessage handling function and remove the VGUIMenu url if the
rate limit is exceeded.



On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 2:30 AM, Supreet  wrote:

> Agreed with the Doctor. Quickplay does not promote community building.
>
> Also, another great point mentioned by another individual:
>
> Ever since free to play, people don't want to donate to community servers.
> They would rather spend on items.
>
> So, we need ads and full liberty to do whatever we want on the expensive
> server hardware we're running.
>
> There's a simple solution.
>
> Valve, tweak the engine to use less resources (we know you won't, too much
> effort, loss of quality) so it would lessen the cost of renting hardware.
>
> OR
>
> A very plausible solution (up to the developers) - Figure out a way to
> give ad enabled servers some quick play penalty.
>
> In the long run, this is a very viable solution that does not require
> custom change.
>
> Also, how about the CVAR people use to connect using console to avoid ads.
>
> connect IP matchmaking
>
> Please Valve, are you really going to try to convince us you put it out
> there for testing and debugging?
>
> You gave all the whiny kids about ads a free get out of ads pass!
>
> If you are not going to change anything, at least please remove that CVAR.
>
> What do you guys think about the CVAR and quickplay penalty idea?
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>
>
___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs

[Alteran Ancient]

He's been doing this for a while now. Whether it's because he's just lazy,
misunderstands the principle of a mailing list, or doesn't want Valve to
see him insulting anyone who doesn't agree with him, I can't really be sure.

I myself received a direct abusive email from him the other day because he
didn't agree with my message. Liquid Source is not a pleasant individual
and should probably be stricken from the mailing list.

I, like most of you, subscribed to this mailing list because I want to stay
informed of HLDS news and to discuss ideas with others. Not to have abuse
hurled at others or myself because someone cannot have their own way.

Now, with that unpleasant interlude out of the way, back to business?
On 9 Nov 2013 01:30, "Hutch"  wrote:

> I approve of this post as far as the two middle paragraphs go, although
> could have been worded a bit less aggressive. Had it been so, it would have
> hammered home a good conveyance of what I feel. But I think you feel the
> way I do about the ads. It drops the communal sense of what the game should
> not lose sight of.
>
> Liquid, you realize you are not mailing the list, rather our individual
> email accounts right?
> Hutch
>
> On 2013-11-08 16:39, Liquid Source wrote:
>
>> @Dr.McKay - You are such an ignorant, why would you agree with double
>> talk? He didn't "SAY" anything, he proposed a few half assed
>> hypothetical questions in a thinly veiled attempt to hide his support
>> for hijacking people game experience and running ad servers. You say
>> "Couldn't have said it better myself", HE DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING OF VALID
>> CONTRIBUTION TO THE TOPIC.
>>
>> Just because some asshat decided to change the model doesn't make it
>> right. The current model is destined for failure, those that support
>> it only support it by reflex and acceptence of the fact that they
>> can't do anything about it. There are more profitable companies still
>> following the old model (Make something, Sell something) without all
>> the sneaky handed force feeding of garbage that does nothing to
>> improve the gaming communities experience. Those of you that support
>> this test model are only screwing yourselves and those of us that
>> truly "know" into a corner, for now. Grow up and move on or contribute
>> something that actually moves gaming forward.
>>
>> Ad servers are yet another form of scum-baggery perpetrated by the
>> lowest forms of life to take advantage of those that don't know they
>> have a choice. There should be a option box that allows users to block
>> ad servers all together by the people that game, then you would see
>> how popular that option really is. People that endeavor to get
>> something for nothing (ad server ops) are the ones that that need to
>> be weeded out and brought into the sun light. To say you are serving
>> "your" community only tells us that it's not a community at all,
>> communities aren't owned like an asset they are a shared resource and
>> should be treated as such.
>>
>> Has anyone noticed how none of the Valve guys ever offer any
>> thoughts? That's because they don't have a plan, a plan other than
>> doing as little as possible so they can thieve as much as they can
>> from the people that buy their crappy games and hats.
>>
>> Face it kids, after the game has been paid for Valve doesn't give a
>> shit about you, the communities or people in general.
>>
>
> --
> Hutch
>
___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs

[Paul]

Personally I think it's a good idea you have. Whether or not Valve listen
to us is another question, so far the people involved in doing the recent
update have kept quiet since the update. I guess it's just a matter of us
being persistent until a fair compromise can be established and implemented.


On 10 November 2013 10:30, Supreet  wrote:

> Agreed with the Doctor. Quickplay does not promote community building.
>
> Also, another great point mentioned by another individual:
>
> Ever since free to play, people don't want to donate to community servers.
> They would rather spend on items.
>
> So, we need ads and full liberty to do whatever we want on the expensive
> server hardware we're running.
>
> There's a simple solution.
>
> Valve, tweak the engine to use less resources (we know you won't, too much
> effort, loss of quality) so it would lessen the cost of renting hardware.
>
> OR
>
> A very plausible solution (up to the developers) - Figure out a way to
> give ad enabled servers some quick play penalty.
>
> In the long run, this is a very viable solution that does not require
> custom change.
>
> Also, how about the CVAR people use to connect using console to avoid ads.
>
> connect IP matchmaking
>
> Please Valve, are you really going to try to convince us you put it out
> there for testing and debugging?
>
> You gave all the whiny kids about ads a free get out of ads pass!
>
> If you are not going to change anything, at least please remove that CVAR.
>
> What do you guys think about the CVAR and quickplay penalty idea?
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>
>
___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs

[Supreet]

Agreed with the Doctor. Quickplay does not promote community building.

Also, another great point mentioned by another individual:

Ever since free to play, people don't want to donate to community servers.
They would rather spend on items.

So, we need ads and full liberty to do whatever we want on the expensive
server hardware we're running.

There's a simple solution.

Valve, tweak the engine to use less resources (we know you won't, too much
effort, loss of quality) so it would lessen the cost of renting hardware.

OR

A very plausible solution (up to the developers) - Figure out a way to give
ad enabled servers some quick play penalty.

In the long run, this is a very viable solution that does not require
custom change.

Also, how about the CVAR people use to connect using console to avoid ads.

connect IP matchmaking

Please Valve, are you really going to try to convince us you put it out
there for testing and debugging?

You gave all the whiny kids about ads a free get out of ads pass!

If you are not going to change anything, at least please remove that CVAR.

What do you guys think about the CVAR and quickplay penalty idea?
___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs

[Doctor McKay]

Unfortunately, Quickplay seems to make users scared of the server browser.
Or newbies won't even know that the server browser exists.

Even if the game prompts them to add the server to their favorites, they
can't come back if they don't know how to pull up their favorites.


Dr. McKay
www.doctormckay.com


On Sat, Nov 9, 2013 at 9:46 PM, Jesse Oak  wrote:

> >Not if they can mash 'quickplay' again next time and get an identical
> experience on any number of other servers.
>
> Then provide an experience that sets your community apart from the rest.
> Prior to quickplay you were still competing with other servers and had to
> provide a way to convince them that yours was better. I know when I first
> started playing CSS, TF2, and ZPS I stuck to the servers that tried new
> community maps one day a week it was a lot of fun to try out these new maps
> and it got the custom mappers to get involved with the community and take
> feedback.
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 9, 2013 at 6:46 AM, ics  wrote:
>
>> That has been always the main thing that i do what i do to have my own
>> servers and control over them but they seem to take that away bit by bit.
>> In CSGO, your server is basically open for any map unless you yourself
>> restrict it. L4D based games, you couldn't even force certain map to be on
>> 24/7. Right now on TF2 you are required to register your server to even get
>> quickplay traffic and run it with 24 slots to get optimum count. Also you
>> are required to run only Valve approved maps to get max benefits. Your
>> benefits that were set on the go are slipping away and you haven't even
>> noticed.
>>
>> Quickplay while it is good, it also killed a lot of servers and there
>> isn't barely any maps that run anything else than official maps.
>>
>> -ics
>>
>> Dill Bates kirjoitti:
>>
>>  The benefit I get from running my own server is that I have admin
>>> rights, and make make my own rules. That's good enough for me. :)
>>>
>>>
>>> On Nov 8, 2013, at 10:38 PM, ics  wrote:
>>>
>>>  Good and valid points. Registering server for benefits seems to be only
 perk for us running servers and receiving players from quickplay. Basically
 everyone else have a shot of getting something back except us. I don't like
 advertisements in general and i don't use them or donations but i'm all in
 for some sort of model that gets some other benefits for running a server
 that is usefull to the game as a whole. But i guess there are too many
 idiots among us and little time for Valve to check who is good and who is
 bad.

 -ics

 Doctor McKay kirjoitti:

> I really couldn't have said it better myself.
>
>
> Dr. McKay
> www.doctormckay.com 
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 4:05 PM, Robert Paulson 
>  thepauls...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Servers don't need ads much like TF2 didn't need to become
> free-to-play. It is just a different model of revenue, one that
> server owners should be free to choose.
>
> Once TF2 became F2P, a larger portion of donation money went to
> the Mann Co Store instead. It also filled slots full of kids who
> aren't able to pay anything because if they had any money they
> would have moved to new games like COD. When a game is brand new,
> there are plenty of people willing to shell out +100€ on servers
> and donations without a second thought. But that time is long past
> for TF2 now. For those who want more than the cheapest servers or
> colocation, donations aren't enough.
>
> If you want to see what a donation only game as old as TF2 looks
> like, all you have to do is look at COD4. The top servers there
> are dominated by the cheapest servers. If you are donation only be
> honest with yourself:
>
> - How much are you paying out of your own pocket? Why is it
> immoral to just break even when modelers used to release free on
> Gamebanana are now making tens of thousands a month on the Mann Co
> Store?
>
> - Do you really have the best server that can be offered to
> players? The answer is most undoubtedly no. Even the fastest
> servers choke on 32 players at times and Valve's own servers
> couldn't even handle 24 players until they restricted FPS to 66.
>
> - How long have you been around? When you first start a community
> you will get a lot of money, but this does not last as communities
> like Firepowered have figured out.
>
> Most of the people here wouldn't be so excited about killing off
> ad supported servers if they didn't think they would get more
> players from it. Really why would you care about ads to the point
> you are excited about removing functionality from your own
> servers? If we're going to have a real conver

Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs

[Jesse Oak]

>Not if they can mash 'quickplay' again next time and get an identical
experience on any number of other servers.

Then provide an experience that sets your community apart from the rest.
Prior to quickplay you were still competing with other servers and had to
provide a way to convince them that yours was better. I know when I first
started playing CSS, TF2, and ZPS I stuck to the servers that tried new
community maps one day a week it was a lot of fun to try out these new maps
and it got the custom mappers to get involved with the community and take
feedback.


On Sat, Nov 9, 2013 at 6:46 AM, ics  wrote:

> That has been always the main thing that i do what i do to have my own
> servers and control over them but they seem to take that away bit by bit.
> In CSGO, your server is basically open for any map unless you yourself
> restrict it. L4D based games, you couldn't even force certain map to be on
> 24/7. Right now on TF2 you are required to register your server to even get
> quickplay traffic and run it with 24 slots to get optimum count. Also you
> are required to run only Valve approved maps to get max benefits. Your
> benefits that were set on the go are slipping away and you haven't even
> noticed.
>
> Quickplay while it is good, it also killed a lot of servers and there
> isn't barely any maps that run anything else than official maps.
>
> -ics
>
> Dill Bates kirjoitti:
>
>  The benefit I get from running my own server is that I have admin rights,
>> and make make my own rules. That's good enough for me. :)
>>
>>
>> On Nov 8, 2013, at 10:38 PM, ics  wrote:
>>
>>  Good and valid points. Registering server for benefits seems to be only
>>> perk for us running servers and receiving players from quickplay. Basically
>>> everyone else have a shot of getting something back except us. I don't like
>>> advertisements in general and i don't use them or donations but i'm all in
>>> for some sort of model that gets some other benefits for running a server
>>> that is usefull to the game as a whole. But i guess there are too many
>>> idiots among us and little time for Valve to check who is good and who is
>>> bad.
>>>
>>> -ics
>>>
>>> Doctor McKay kirjoitti:
>>>
 I really couldn't have said it better myself.


 Dr. McKay
 www.doctormckay.com 


 On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 4:05 PM, Robert Paulson 
 >>> thepauls...@gmail.com>> wrote:

 Servers don't need ads much like TF2 didn't need to become
 free-to-play. It is just a different model of revenue, one that
 server owners should be free to choose.

 Once TF2 became F2P, a larger portion of donation money went to
 the Mann Co Store instead. It also filled slots full of kids who
 aren't able to pay anything because if they had any money they
 would have moved to new games like COD. When a game is brand new,
 there are plenty of people willing to shell out +100€ on servers
 and donations without a second thought. But that time is long past
 for TF2 now. For those who want more than the cheapest servers or
 colocation, donations aren't enough.

 If you want to see what a donation only game as old as TF2 looks
 like, all you have to do is look at COD4. The top servers there
 are dominated by the cheapest servers. If you are donation only be
 honest with yourself:

 - How much are you paying out of your own pocket? Why is it
 immoral to just break even when modelers used to release free on
 Gamebanana are now making tens of thousands a month on the Mann Co
 Store?

 - Do you really have the best server that can be offered to
 players? The answer is most undoubtedly no. Even the fastest
 servers choke on 32 players at times and Valve's own servers
 couldn't even handle 24 players until they restricted FPS to 66.

 - How long have you been around? When you first start a community
 you will get a lot of money, but this does not last as communities
 like Firepowered have figured out.

 Most of the people here wouldn't be so excited about killing off
 ad supported servers if they didn't think they would get more
 players from it. Really why would you care about ads to the point
 you are excited about removing functionality from your own
 servers? If we're going to have a real conversation about MOTDs
 let us be honest about this at least.




 On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 11:33 AM, DontWannaName!
 mailto:ad...@topnotchclan.com>> wrote:

 If servers were able to survive for the past 10 years why do
 we need ads now? It used to be you create a good community or
 your servers die. Now it's lets out up tons of ads and let my
 sub par servers survive without the

Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs

[ics]

That has been always the main thing that i do what i do to have my own 
servers and control over them but they seem to take that away bit by 
bit. In CSGO, your server is basically open for any map unless you 
yourself restrict it. L4D based games, you couldn't even force certain 
map to be on 24/7. Right now on TF2 you are required to register your 
server to even get quickplay traffic and run it with 24 slots to get 
optimum count. Also you are required to run only Valve approved maps to 
get max benefits. Your benefits that were set on the go are slipping 
away and you haven't even noticed.


Quickplay while it is good, it also killed a lot of servers and there 
isn't barely any maps that run anything else than official maps.


-ics

Dill Bates kirjoitti:

The benefit I get from running my own server is that I have admin rights, and 
make make my own rules. That's good enough for me. :)


On Nov 8, 2013, at 10:38 PM, ics  wrote:


Good and valid points. Registering server for benefits seems to be only perk 
for us running servers and receiving players from quickplay. Basically everyone 
else have a shot of getting something back except us. I don't like 
advertisements in general and i don't use them or donations but i'm all in for 
some sort of model that gets some other benefits for running a server that is 
usefull to the game as a whole. But i guess there are too many idiots among us 
and little time for Valve to check who is good and who is bad.

-ics

Doctor McKay kirjoitti:

I really couldn't have said it better myself.


Dr. McKay
www.doctormckay.com 


On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 4:05 PM, Robert Paulson mailto:thepauls...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Servers don't need ads much like TF2 didn't need to become
free-to-play. It is just a different model of revenue, one that
server owners should be free to choose.

Once TF2 became F2P, a larger portion of donation money went to
the Mann Co Store instead. It also filled slots full of kids who
aren't able to pay anything because if they had any money they
would have moved to new games like COD. When a game is brand new,
there are plenty of people willing to shell out +100€ on servers
and donations without a second thought. But that time is long past
for TF2 now. For those who want more than the cheapest servers or
colocation, donations aren't enough.

If you want to see what a donation only game as old as TF2 looks
like, all you have to do is look at COD4. The top servers there
are dominated by the cheapest servers. If you are donation only be
honest with yourself:

- How much are you paying out of your own pocket? Why is it
immoral to just break even when modelers used to release free on
Gamebanana are now making tens of thousands a month on the Mann Co
Store?

- Do you really have the best server that can be offered to
players? The answer is most undoubtedly no. Even the fastest
servers choke on 32 players at times and Valve's own servers
couldn't even handle 24 players until they restricted FPS to 66.

- How long have you been around? When you first start a community
you will get a lot of money, but this does not last as communities
like Firepowered have figured out.

Most of the people here wouldn't be so excited about killing off
ad supported servers if they didn't think they would get more
players from it. Really why would you care about ads to the point
you are excited about removing functionality from your own
servers? If we're going to have a real conversation about MOTDs
let us be honest about this at least.




On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 11:33 AM, DontWannaName!
mailto:ad...@topnotchclan.com>> wrote:

If servers were able to survive for the past 10 years why do
we need ads now? It used to be you create a good community or
your servers die. Now it's lets out up tons of ads and let my
sub par servers survive without the need of a community. In my
opinion servers should be running to foster a community, it's
a game not a billboard for COD.

Sent from my iPhone 5

> On Nov 8, 2013, at 9:49 AM, hutch mailto:hu...@halsplayground.com>> wrote:
>
> I don't want quick-play players to see the ads either. Not
on my servers at least. But I do know I want them to see and
ignore my motd, not a txt file.
>
> If you do not know what I was rambling on about, I rest my
case. You confuse the html issue with the sanction of ads.
>
> Hutch
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
archives, please visit:
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the

Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs

[Paul]

Except as time goes on Valve is taking more control away from server
admins. Plus they appear to be keeping quiet on recent events.
On 9 Nov 2013 09:01, "Dill Bates"  wrote:

> The benefit I get from running my own server is that I have admin rights,
> and make make my own rules. That's good enough for me. :)
>
>
> On Nov 8, 2013, at 10:38 PM, ics  wrote:
>
> > Good and valid points. Registering server for benefits seems to be only
> perk for us running servers and receiving players from quickplay. Basically
> everyone else have a shot of getting something back except us. I don't like
> advertisements in general and i don't use them or donations but i'm all in
> for some sort of model that gets some other benefits for running a server
> that is usefull to the game as a whole. But i guess there are too many
> idiots among us and little time for Valve to check who is good and who is
> bad.
> >
> > -ics
> >
> > Doctor McKay kirjoitti:
> >> I really couldn't have said it better myself.
> >>
> >>
> >> Dr. McKay
> >> www.doctormckay.com 
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 4:05 PM, Robert Paulson 
> >>  thepauls...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >>Servers don't need ads much like TF2 didn't need to become
> >>free-to-play. It is just a different model of revenue, one that
> >>server owners should be free to choose.
> >>
> >>Once TF2 became F2P, a larger portion of donation money went to
> >>the Mann Co Store instead. It also filled slots full of kids who
> >>aren't able to pay anything because if they had any money they
> >>would have moved to new games like COD. When a game is brand new,
> >>there are plenty of people willing to shell out +100€ on servers
> >>and donations without a second thought. But that time is long past
> >>for TF2 now. For those who want more than the cheapest servers or
> >>colocation, donations aren't enough.
> >>
> >>If you want to see what a donation only game as old as TF2 looks
> >>like, all you have to do is look at COD4. The top servers there
> >>are dominated by the cheapest servers. If you are donation only be
> >>honest with yourself:
> >>
> >>- How much are you paying out of your own pocket? Why is it
> >>immoral to just break even when modelers used to release free on
> >>Gamebanana are now making tens of thousands a month on the Mann Co
> >>Store?
> >>
> >>- Do you really have the best server that can be offered to
> >>players? The answer is most undoubtedly no. Even the fastest
> >>servers choke on 32 players at times and Valve's own servers
> >>couldn't even handle 24 players until they restricted FPS to 66.
> >>
> >>- How long have you been around? When you first start a community
> >>you will get a lot of money, but this does not last as communities
> >>like Firepowered have figured out.
> >>
> >>Most of the people here wouldn't be so excited about killing off
> >>ad supported servers if they didn't think they would get more
> >>players from it. Really why would you care about ads to the point
> >>you are excited about removing functionality from your own
> >>servers? If we're going to have a real conversation about MOTDs
> >>let us be honest about this at least.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 11:33 AM, DontWannaName!
> >>mailto:ad...@topnotchclan.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >>If servers were able to survive for the past 10 years why do
> >>we need ads now? It used to be you create a good community or
> >>your servers die. Now it's lets out up tons of ads and let my
> >>sub par servers survive without the need of a community. In my
> >>opinion servers should be running to foster a community, it's
> >>a game not a billboard for COD.
> >>
> >>Sent from my iPhone 5
> >>
> >>> On Nov 8, 2013, at 9:49 AM, hutch  >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I don't want quick-play players to see the ads either. Not
> >>on my servers at least. But I do know I want them to see and
> >>ignore my motd, not a txt file.
> >>>
> >>> If you do not know what I was rambling on about, I rest my
> >>case. You confuse the html issue with the sanction of ads.
> >>>
> >>> Hutch
> >>> ___
> >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
> >>archives, please visit:
> >>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
> >>
> >>___
> >>To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
> >>archives, please visit:
> >>https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>___
> >>To unsubscribe, edit your list pr

Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs

[Dill Bates]

The benefit I get from running my own server is that I have admin rights, and 
make make my own rules. That's good enough for me. :)


On Nov 8, 2013, at 10:38 PM, ics  wrote:

> Good and valid points. Registering server for benefits seems to be only perk 
> for us running servers and receiving players from quickplay. Basically 
> everyone else have a shot of getting something back except us. I don't like 
> advertisements in general and i don't use them or donations but i'm all in 
> for some sort of model that gets some other benefits for running a server 
> that is usefull to the game as a whole. But i guess there are too many idiots 
> among us and little time for Valve to check who is good and who is bad.
> 
> -ics
> 
> Doctor McKay kirjoitti:
>> I really couldn't have said it better myself.
>> 
>> 
>> Dr. McKay
>> www.doctormckay.com 
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 4:05 PM, Robert Paulson > > wrote:
>> 
>>Servers don't need ads much like TF2 didn't need to become
>>free-to-play. It is just a different model of revenue, one that
>>server owners should be free to choose.
>> 
>>Once TF2 became F2P, a larger portion of donation money went to
>>the Mann Co Store instead. It also filled slots full of kids who
>>aren't able to pay anything because if they had any money they
>>would have moved to new games like COD. When a game is brand new,
>>there are plenty of people willing to shell out +100€ on servers
>>and donations without a second thought. But that time is long past
>>for TF2 now. For those who want more than the cheapest servers or
>>colocation, donations aren't enough.
>> 
>>If you want to see what a donation only game as old as TF2 looks
>>like, all you have to do is look at COD4. The top servers there
>>are dominated by the cheapest servers. If you are donation only be
>>honest with yourself:
>> 
>>- How much are you paying out of your own pocket? Why is it
>>immoral to just break even when modelers used to release free on
>>Gamebanana are now making tens of thousands a month on the Mann Co
>>Store?
>> 
>>- Do you really have the best server that can be offered to
>>players? The answer is most undoubtedly no. Even the fastest
>>servers choke on 32 players at times and Valve's own servers
>>couldn't even handle 24 players until they restricted FPS to 66.
>> 
>>- How long have you been around? When you first start a community
>>you will get a lot of money, but this does not last as communities
>>like Firepowered have figured out.
>> 
>>Most of the people here wouldn't be so excited about killing off
>>ad supported servers if they didn't think they would get more
>>players from it. Really why would you care about ads to the point
>>you are excited about removing functionality from your own
>>servers? If we're going to have a real conversation about MOTDs
>>let us be honest about this at least.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 11:33 AM, DontWannaName!
>>mailto:ad...@topnotchclan.com>> wrote:
>> 
>>If servers were able to survive for the past 10 years why do
>>we need ads now? It used to be you create a good community or
>>your servers die. Now it's lets out up tons of ads and let my
>>sub par servers survive without the need of a community. In my
>>opinion servers should be running to foster a community, it's
>>a game not a billboard for COD.
>> 
>>Sent from my iPhone 5
>> 
>>> On Nov 8, 2013, at 9:49 AM, hutch >> wrote:
>>>
>>> I don't want quick-play players to see the ads either. Not
>>on my servers at least. But I do know I want them to see and
>>ignore my motd, not a txt file.
>>>
>>> If you do not know what I was rambling on about, I rest my
>>case. You confuse the html issue with the sanction of ads.
>>>
>>> Hutch
>>> ___
>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
>>archives, please visit:
>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>> 
>>___
>>To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
>>archives, please visit:
>>https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>___
>>To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
>>archives, please visit:
>>https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, 
>> please visit:
>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/list

Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs

[ics]

Good and valid points. Registering server for benefits seems to be only 
perk for us running servers and receiving players from quickplay. 
Basically everyone else have a shot of getting something back except us. 
I don't like advertisements in general and i don't use them or donations 
but i'm all in for some sort of model that gets some other benefits for 
running a server that is usefull to the game as a whole. But i guess 
there are too many idiots among us and little time for Valve to check 
who is good and who is bad.


-ics

Doctor McKay kirjoitti:

I really couldn't have said it better myself.


Dr. McKay
www.doctormckay.com 


On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 4:05 PM, Robert Paulson > wrote:


Servers don't need ads much like TF2 didn't need to become
free-to-play. It is just a different model of revenue, one that
server owners should be free to choose.

Once TF2 became F2P, a larger portion of donation money went to
the Mann Co Store instead. It also filled slots full of kids who
aren't able to pay anything because if they had any money they
would have moved to new games like COD. When a game is brand new,
there are plenty of people willing to shell out +100€ on servers
and donations without a second thought. But that time is long past
for TF2 now. For those who want more than the cheapest servers or
colocation, donations aren't enough.

If you want to see what a donation only game as old as TF2 looks
like, all you have to do is look at COD4. The top servers there
are dominated by the cheapest servers. If you are donation only be
honest with yourself:

- How much are you paying out of your own pocket? Why is it
immoral to just break even when modelers used to release free on
Gamebanana are now making tens of thousands a month on the Mann Co
Store?

- Do you really have the best server that can be offered to
players? The answer is most undoubtedly no. Even the fastest
servers choke on 32 players at times and Valve's own servers
couldn't even handle 24 players until they restricted FPS to 66.

- How long have you been around? When you first start a community
you will get a lot of money, but this does not last as communities
like Firepowered have figured out.

Most of the people here wouldn't be so excited about killing off
ad supported servers if they didn't think they would get more
players from it. Really why would you care about ads to the point
you are excited about removing functionality from your own
servers? If we're going to have a real conversation about MOTDs
let us be honest about this at least.




On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 11:33 AM, DontWannaName!
mailto:ad...@topnotchclan.com>> wrote:

If servers were able to survive for the past 10 years why do
we need ads now? It used to be you create a good community or
your servers die. Now it's lets out up tons of ads and let my
sub par servers survive without the need of a community. In my
opinion servers should be running to foster a community, it's
a game not a billboard for COD.

Sent from my iPhone 5

> On Nov 8, 2013, at 9:49 AM, hutch mailto:hu...@halsplayground.com>> wrote:
>
> I don't want quick-play players to see the ads either. Not
on my servers at least. But I do know I want them to see and
ignore my motd, not a txt file.
>
> If you do not know what I was rambling on about, I rest my
case. You confuse the html issue with the sanction of ads.
>
> Hutch
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
archives, please visit:
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
archives, please visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds



___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
archives, please visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds




___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds



___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs

[Doctor McKay]

I really couldn't have said it better myself.


Dr. McKay
www.doctormckay.com


On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 4:05 PM, Robert Paulson wrote:

> Servers don't need ads much like TF2 didn't need to become free-to-play.
> It is just a different model of revenue, one that server owners should be
> free to choose.
>
> Once TF2 became F2P, a larger portion of donation money went to the Mann
> Co Store instead. It also filled slots full of kids who aren't able to pay
> anything because if they had any money they would have moved to new games
> like COD. When a game is brand new, there are plenty of people willing to
> shell out +100€ on servers and donations without a second thought. But
> that time is long past for TF2 now. For those who want more than the
> cheapest servers or colocation, donations aren't enough.
>
> If you want to see what a donation only game as old as TF2 looks like, all
> you have to do is look at COD4. The top servers there are dominated by the
> cheapest servers. If you are donation only be honest with yourself:
>
> - How much are you paying out of your own pocket? Why is it immoral to
> just break even when modelers used to release free on Gamebanana are now
> making tens of thousands a month on the Mann Co Store?
>
> - Do you really have the best server that can be offered to players? The
> answer is most undoubtedly no. Even the fastest servers choke on 32 players
> at times and Valve's own servers couldn't even handle 24 players until they
> restricted FPS to 66.
>
> - How long have you been around? When you first start a community you will
> get a lot of money, but this does not last as communities like Firepowered
> have figured out.
>
> Most of the people here wouldn't be so excited about killing off ad
> supported servers if they didn't think they would get more players from it.
> Really why would you care about ads to the point you are excited about
> removing functionality from your own servers? If we're going to have a real
> conversation about MOTDs let us be honest about this at least.
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 11:33 AM, DontWannaName! wrote:
>
>> If servers were able to survive for the past 10 years why do we need ads
>> now? It used to be you create a good community or your servers die. Now
>> it's lets out up tons of ads and let my sub par servers survive without the
>> need of a community. In my opinion servers should be running to foster a
>> community, it's a game not a billboard for COD.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone 5
>>
>> > On Nov 8, 2013, at 9:49 AM, hutch  wrote:
>> >
>> > I don't want quick-play players to see the ads either. Not on my
>> servers at least. But I do know I want them to see and ignore my motd, not
>> a txt file.
>> >
>> > If you do not know what I was rambling on about, I rest my case. You
>> confuse the html issue with the sanction of ads.
>> >
>> > Hutch
>> > ___
>> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> please visit:
>> > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>>
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> please visit:
>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>>
>
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>
>
___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs

[Robert Paulson]

Servers don't need ads much like TF2 didn't need to become free-to-play. It
is just a different model of revenue, one that server owners should be free
to choose.

Once TF2 became F2P, a larger portion of donation money went to the Mann Co
Store instead. It also filled slots full of kids who aren't able to pay
anything because if they had any money they would have moved to new games
like COD. When a game is brand new, there are plenty of people willing to
shell out +100€ on servers and donations without a second thought. But that
time is long past for TF2 now. For those who want more than the cheapest
servers or colocation, donations aren't enough.

If you want to see what a donation only game as old as TF2 looks like, all
you have to do is look at COD4. The top servers there are dominated by the
cheapest servers. If you are donation only be honest with yourself:

- How much are you paying out of your own pocket? Why is it immoral to just
break even when modelers used to release free on Gamebanana are now making
tens of thousands a month on the Mann Co Store?

- Do you really have the best server that can be offered to players? The
answer is most undoubtedly no. Even the fastest servers choke on 32 players
at times and Valve's own servers couldn't even handle 24 players until they
restricted FPS to 66.

- How long have you been around? When you first start a community you will
get a lot of money, but this does not last as communities like Firepowered
have figured out.

Most of the people here wouldn't be so excited about killing off ad
supported servers if they didn't think they would get more players from it.
Really why would you care about ads to the point you are excited about
removing functionality from your own servers? If we're going to have a real
conversation about MOTDs let us be honest about this at least.




On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 11:33 AM, DontWannaName! wrote:

> If servers were able to survive for the past 10 years why do we need ads
> now? It used to be you create a good community or your servers die. Now
> it's lets out up tons of ads and let my sub par servers survive without the
> need of a community. In my opinion servers should be running to foster a
> community, it's a game not a billboard for COD.
>
> Sent from my iPhone 5
>
> > On Nov 8, 2013, at 9:49 AM, hutch  wrote:
> >
> > I don't want quick-play players to see the ads either. Not on my servers
> at least. But I do know I want them to see and ignore my motd, not a txt
> file.
> >
> > If you do not know what I was rambling on about, I rest my case. You
> confuse the html issue with the sanction of ads.
> >
> > Hutch
> > ___
> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>
___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs (Jesse Oak)

[Hutch]

Jesse, just saw your post after I sent mine... Great minds, etc...
--
Hutch

___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs

[Hutch]

How about this as a compromise. Having within your steam community 
group a tab for your servers MOTD. A tab you could turn off or on 
depending if you want to utilize. They could allow or disallow certain 
functions. Start with the basics of a static image, text and allow 
external links such as to your groups forums.


It would be nice to have a way to mandate registration of your 
server(s) tied to the MOTD that would only be seen by the group owner 
and appointed officers with an option to allow officers to edit. 
Although registration of non-stock maps is unnecessary right now and 
registration of servers seems generated towards stock/quickplay, it is a 
means to account servers and tie them to a steam community, allowing 
accountability if needed.


Adding and allowing an HTML MOTD tab seems would be easy to add to the 
Steam client, only appearing if you have formed a group within the Steam 
client. The mandating the registration of the servers without crippling 
custom maps would be the challenge I would suppose so that non stocks 
could use the MOTD as well. I would think it would also be a great time 
to allow quickplay users to select an option to allow custom maps to 
their joins as well.


Which is my only opposition to quickplay. Customs do not get the 
benefit of the traffic...


Hutch


___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs

[DontWannaName!]

If servers were able to survive for the past 10 years why do we need ads now? 
It used to be you create a good community or your servers die. Now it's lets 
out up tons of ads and let my sub par servers survive without the need of a 
community. In my opinion servers should be running to foster a community, it's 
a game not a billboard for COD. 

Sent from my iPhone 5

> On Nov 8, 2013, at 9:49 AM, hutch  wrote:
> 
> I don't want quick-play players to see the ads either. Not on my servers at 
> least. But I do know I want them to see and ignore my motd, not a txt file.
> 
> If you do not know what I was rambling on about, I rest my case. You confuse 
> the html issue with the sanction of ads.
> 
> Hutch
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
> visit:
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs

[hutch]

I don't want quick-play players to see the ads either. Not on my servers at 
least. But I do know I want them to see and ignore my motd, not a txt file.

If you do not know what I was rambling on about, I rest my case. You confuse 
the html issue with the sanction of ads.

Hutch___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs

[Bjorn Wielens]

A fair suggestion - even better if you can create a simple page in your steam 
group explicitly for this purpose.

>If they  enjoyed playing on your server will they not be adding it to their 
>favorites?
 
Not if they can mash 'quickplay' again next time and get an identical 
experience on any number of other servers.




On Fri, 11/8/13, Jesse Oak  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs
 To: "Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list" 

 Received: Friday, November 8, 2013, 10:15 AM
 
 I think a fair compromise is
 if in place of the HTML motd players were shown the servers
 group page on the steam. This way they can see the servers
 rules and have an easy way to join the community.
 
 I don't understand how someone can argue that
 quickplay is driving people away from their servers when it
 is bringing them in and then asking them if they wish to add
 it to their favorites when they leave the server. If they
 enjoyed playing on your server will they not be adding it to
 their favorites?
 
 
 On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at
 7:52 AM, Bjorn Wielens 
 wrote:
 
 If
 that was the case, we'd be swimming in players right
 now. The sad truth of it is many people just don't care,
 they click and close it.
 
 
 It's a rather vocal, but smaller portion of people that
 vehemently hate ads with a passion and DC/blacklist servers
 with MOTD ads.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 On Fri, 11/8/13, Alexander Z
 
 wrote:
 
 
 
  Subject: Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs
 
  To: "Half-Life
 dedicated Win32 server mailing list" 
 
  Received: Friday, November 8, 2013, 9:31 AM
 
 
 
  I'm not quite sure
 
  what the OP is rambling about, but if it is about
 removing
 
  html MOTDs from quickplay, here's the answer why.
 
  A majority of people, upon seeing advertising in the
 
  MOTD, will disconnect from the server. You might get some
 ad
 
  revenue, but you're not going to get any players.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  On 8 November 2013
 
  01:11, James Haikin 
 
  wrote:
 
 
 
  What in the hell is Liquid Source talking
 
  about? This is a video game, not the presidency. Good
 
  lord.
 
  -James
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at
 
  4:00 PM, Weasel's Lair 
 
  wrote:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  IMH(f)O, variety is a big deal.  Different server
 
  operators, with
 
 
 
  different tastes, results in different communities, to
 suit
 
  different
 
 
 
  players tastes.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  However, some players only like to play stock maps and
 deal
 
  with a
 
 
 
  pre-defined world-view of what is possible/expected in
 the
 
  behaviour
 
 
 
  game.  QuickPlay helps those players/noobs/whatever find
 
  what they
 
 
 
  want.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  So, I definately see the value in QuickPlay.  I just
 wish
 
  there was
 
 
 
  more of an equal footing between QuickPlay and
 non-QuickPlay
 
  in the
 
 
 
  interface.  Maybe there should be two equal-size /
 
  equally-marketed
 
 
 
  buttons - "Find QuickPlay Game" and "Find
 
  Customized Game" or
 
 
 
  something like that.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  From a playing perspective, I think servers the enforce
 
  something that
 
 
 
  the player can not close (and have the audio stop when it
 
  closes) is a
 
 
 
  very bad thing.  I think the MOTD changes aren't
 
  targeting
 
 
 
  advertising/donation schilling necessarily - so much as
 that
 
  "WTF? I
 
 
 
  can't close this shiz and start playing right
 now?"
 
  effect.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  On a side note, if you are paying $30 for a server that
 can
 
  only host
 
 
 
  a single TF2 dedicated server instance - you are paying
 too
 
  much!
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  I am using a VPS provider and paying that much - but able
 to
 
  host
 
 
 
  multiple instances of TF2 (32-player), CS:S and several
 
  GoldSrc
 
 
 
  stufff.  Contrary to what I expected, my VPS is working
 
  better than
 
 
 
  any normal "dedicated" I have ever rented.  I
 
  also found that VPS's
 
 
 
  hosted on Virtuozzo or OpenVZ perform better than KVM
 ones
 
  (even with
 
 
 
  specific resources "dedicated" to the KVM
 machine)
 
  - again, the
 
 
 
  opposite of what I expected.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  ___
 
 
 
  To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the
 list
 
  archives, please visit:
 
 
 
  https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  ___
 
 
 
  To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the
 list
 
  archives, please visit:
 
 
 
  https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  -Inline Attachment Follows-
 
 
 
  ___
 
  To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the
 list
 
  archives, pl

Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs

[Jesse Oak]

I think a fair compromise is if in place of the HTML motd players were
shown the servers group page on the steam. This way they can see the
servers rules and have an easy way to join the community.

I don't understand how someone can argue that quickplay is driving people
away from their servers when it is bringing them in and then asking them if
they wish to add it to their favorites when they leave the server. If they
enjoyed playing on your server will they not be adding it to their
favorites?


On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 7:52 AM, Bjorn Wielens  wrote:

> If that was the case, we'd be swimming in players right now. The sad truth
> of it is many people just don't care, they click and close it.
> It's a rather vocal, but smaller portion of people that vehemently hate
> ads with a passion and DC/blacklist servers with MOTD ads.
>
>
> 
> On Fri, 11/8/13, Alexander Z  wrote:
>
>  Subject: Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs
>  To: "Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list" <
> hlds@list.valvesoftware.com>
>  Received: Friday, November 8, 2013, 9:31 AM
>
>  I'm not quite sure
>  what the OP is rambling about, but if it is about removing
>  html MOTDs from quickplay, here's the answer why.
>  A majority of people, upon seeing advertising in the
>  MOTD, will disconnect from the server. You might get some ad
>  revenue, but you're not going to get any players.
>
>
>
>  On 8 November 2013
>  01:11, James Haikin 
>  wrote:
>
>  What in the hell is Liquid Source talking
>  about? This is a video game, not the presidency. Good
>  lord.
>  -James
>
>
>
>  On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at
>  4:00 PM, Weasel's Lair 
>  wrote:
>
>
>
>  IMH(f)O, variety is a big deal.  Different server
>  operators, with
>
>  different tastes, results in different communities, to suit
>  different
>
>  players tastes.
>
>
>
>  However, some players only like to play stock maps and deal
>  with a
>
>  pre-defined world-view of what is possible/expected in the
>  behaviour
>
>  game.  QuickPlay helps those players/noobs/whatever find
>  what they
>
>  want.
>
>
>
>  So, I definately see the value in QuickPlay.  I just wish
>  there was
>
>  more of an equal footing between QuickPlay and non-QuickPlay
>  in the
>
>  interface.  Maybe there should be two equal-size /
>  equally-marketed
>
>  buttons - "Find QuickPlay Game" and "Find
>  Customized Game" or
>
>  something like that.
>
>
>
>  From a playing perspective, I think servers the enforce
>  something that
>
>  the player can not close (and have the audio stop when it
>  closes) is a
>
>  very bad thing.  I think the MOTD changes aren't
>  targeting
>
>  advertising/donation schilling necessarily - so much as that
>  "WTF? I
>
>  can't close this shiz and start playing right now?"
>  effect.
>
>
>
>  On a side note, if you are paying $30 for a server that can
>  only host
>
>  a single TF2 dedicated server instance - you are paying too
>  much!
>
>
>
>  I am using a VPS provider and paying that much - but able to
>  host
>
>  multiple instances of TF2 (32-player), CS:S and several
>  GoldSrc
>
>  stufff.  Contrary to what I expected, my VPS is working
>  better than
>
>  any normal "dedicated" I have ever rented.  I
>  also found that VPS's
>
>  hosted on Virtuozzo or OpenVZ perform better than KVM ones
>  (even with
>
>  specific resources "dedicated" to the KVM machine)
>  - again, the
>
>  opposite of what I expected.
>
>
>
>  ___
>
>  To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
>  archives, please visit:
>
>  https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>
>
>
>
>  ___
>
>  To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
>  archives, please visit:
>
>  https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>
>
>
>
>
>  -Inline Attachment Follows-
>
>  ___
>  To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
>  archives, please visit:
>  https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>
___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs

[Bjorn Wielens]

If that was the case, we'd be swimming in players right now. The sad truth of 
it is many people just don't care, they click and close it.
It's a rather vocal, but smaller portion of people that vehemently hate ads 
with a passion and DC/blacklist servers with MOTD ads.



On Fri, 11/8/13, Alexander Z  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs
 To: "Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list" 

 Received: Friday, November 8, 2013, 9:31 AM
 
 I'm not quite sure
 what the OP is rambling about, but if it is about removing
 html MOTDs from quickplay, here's the answer why.
 A majority of people, upon seeing advertising in the
 MOTD, will disconnect from the server. You might get some ad
 revenue, but you're not going to get any players.
 
 
 
 On 8 November 2013
 01:11, James Haikin 
 wrote:
 
 What in the hell is Liquid Source talking
 about? This is a video game, not the presidency. Good
 lord.
 -James
 
 
 
 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at
 4:00 PM, Weasel's Lair 
 wrote:
 
 
 
 IMH(f)O, variety is a big deal.  Different server
 operators, with
 
 different tastes, results in different communities, to suit
 different
 
 players tastes.
 
 
 
 However, some players only like to play stock maps and deal
 with a
 
 pre-defined world-view of what is possible/expected in the
 behaviour
 
 game.  QuickPlay helps those players/noobs/whatever find
 what they
 
 want.
 
 
 
 So, I definately see the value in QuickPlay.  I just wish
 there was
 
 more of an equal footing between QuickPlay and non-QuickPlay
 in the
 
 interface.  Maybe there should be two equal-size /
 equally-marketed
 
 buttons - "Find QuickPlay Game" and "Find
 Customized Game" or
 
 something like that.
 
 
 
 From a playing perspective, I think servers the enforce
 something that
 
 the player can not close (and have the audio stop when it
 closes) is a
 
 very bad thing.  I think the MOTD changes aren't
 targeting
 
 advertising/donation schilling necessarily - so much as that
 "WTF? I
 
 can't close this shiz and start playing right now?"
 effect.
 
 
 
 On a side note, if you are paying $30 for a server that can
 only host
 
 a single TF2 dedicated server instance - you are paying too
 much!
 
 
 
 I am using a VPS provider and paying that much - but able to
 host
 
 multiple instances of TF2 (32-player), CS:S and several
 GoldSrc
 
 stufff.  Contrary to what I expected, my VPS is working
 better than
 
 any normal "dedicated" I have ever rented.  I
 also found that VPS's
 
 hosted on Virtuozzo or OpenVZ perform better than KVM ones
 (even with
 
 specific resources "dedicated" to the KVM machine)
 - again, the
 
 opposite of what I expected.
 
 
 
 ___
 
 To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
 archives, please visit:
 
 https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
 
 
 
 
 ___
 
 To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
 archives, please visit:
 
 https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
 
 
 
 
 
 -Inline Attachment Follows-
 
 ___
 To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
 archives, please visit:
 https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
 

___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs

[Alexander Z]

I'm not quite sure what the OP is rambling about, but if it is about
removing html MOTDs from quickplay, here's the answer why.
A majority of people, upon seeing advertising in the MOTD, will disconnect
from the server. You might get some ad revenue, but you're not going to get
any players.


On 8 November 2013 01:11, James Haikin  wrote:

> What in the hell is Liquid Source talking about? This is a video game, not
> the presidency. Good lord.
>
> -James
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 4:00 PM, Weasel's Lair wrote:
>
>> IMH(f)O, variety is a big deal.  Different server operators, with
>> different tastes, results in different communities, to suit different
>> players tastes.
>>
>> However, some players only like to play stock maps and deal with a
>> pre-defined world-view of what is possible/expected in the behaviour
>> game.  QuickPlay helps those players/noobs/whatever find what they
>> want.
>>
>> So, I definately see the value in QuickPlay.  I just wish there was
>> more of an equal footing between QuickPlay and non-QuickPlay in the
>> interface.  Maybe there should be two equal-size / equally-marketed
>> buttons - "Find QuickPlay Game" and "Find Customized Game" or
>> something like that.
>>
>> From a playing perspective, I think servers the enforce something that
>> the player can not close (and have the audio stop when it closes) is a
>> very bad thing.  I think the MOTD changes aren't targeting
>> advertising/donation schilling necessarily - so much as that "WTF? I
>> can't close this shiz and start playing right now?" effect.
>>
>> On a side note, if you are paying $30 for a server that can only host
>> a single TF2 dedicated server instance - you are paying too much!
>>
>> I am using a VPS provider and paying that much - but able to host
>> multiple instances of TF2 (32-player), CS:S and several GoldSrc
>> stufff.  Contrary to what I expected, my VPS is working better than
>> any normal "dedicated" I have ever rented.  I also found that VPS's
>> hosted on Virtuozzo or OpenVZ perform better than KVM ones (even with
>> specific resources "dedicated" to the KVM machine) - again, the
>> opposite of what I expected.
>>
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> please visit:
>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>>
>
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>
>
___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs

[James Haikin]

What in the hell is Liquid Source talking about? This is a video game, not
the presidency. Good lord.

-James


On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 4:00 PM, Weasel's Lair wrote:

> IMH(f)O, variety is a big deal.  Different server operators, with
> different tastes, results in different communities, to suit different
> players tastes.
>
> However, some players only like to play stock maps and deal with a
> pre-defined world-view of what is possible/expected in the behaviour
> game.  QuickPlay helps those players/noobs/whatever find what they
> want.
>
> So, I definately see the value in QuickPlay.  I just wish there was
> more of an equal footing between QuickPlay and non-QuickPlay in the
> interface.  Maybe there should be two equal-size / equally-marketed
> buttons - "Find QuickPlay Game" and "Find Customized Game" or
> something like that.
>
> From a playing perspective, I think servers the enforce something that
> the player can not close (and have the audio stop when it closes) is a
> very bad thing.  I think the MOTD changes aren't targeting
> advertising/donation schilling necessarily - so much as that "WTF? I
> can't close this shiz and start playing right now?" effect.
>
> On a side note, if you are paying $30 for a server that can only host
> a single TF2 dedicated server instance - you are paying too much!
>
> I am using a VPS provider and paying that much - but able to host
> multiple instances of TF2 (32-player), CS:S and several GoldSrc
> stufff.  Contrary to what I expected, my VPS is working better than
> any normal "dedicated" I have ever rented.  I also found that VPS's
> hosted on Virtuozzo or OpenVZ perform better than KVM ones (even with
> specific resources "dedicated" to the KVM machine) - again, the
> opposite of what I expected.
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>
___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs

[Weasel's Lair]

IMH(f)O, variety is a big deal.  Different server operators, with
different tastes, results in different communities, to suit different
players tastes.

However, some players only like to play stock maps and deal with a
pre-defined world-view of what is possible/expected in the behaviour
game.  QuickPlay helps those players/noobs/whatever find what they
want.

So, I definately see the value in QuickPlay.  I just wish there was
more of an equal footing between QuickPlay and non-QuickPlay in the
interface.  Maybe there should be two equal-size / equally-marketed
buttons - "Find QuickPlay Game" and "Find Customized Game" or
something like that.

>From a playing perspective, I think servers the enforce something that
the player can not close (and have the audio stop when it closes) is a
very bad thing.  I think the MOTD changes aren't targeting
advertising/donation schilling necessarily - so much as that "WTF? I
can't close this shiz and start playing right now?" effect.

On a side note, if you are paying $30 for a server that can only host
a single TF2 dedicated server instance - you are paying too much!

I am using a VPS provider and paying that much - but able to host
multiple instances of TF2 (32-player), CS:S and several GoldSrc
stufff.  Contrary to what I expected, my VPS is working better than
any normal "dedicated" I have ever rented.  I also found that VPS's
hosted on Virtuozzo or OpenVZ perform better than KVM ones (even with
specific resources "dedicated" to the KVM machine) - again, the
opposite of what I expected.

___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs

[James Haikin]

Seriously? Valve has sold out because they took away HTML MOTD from
quickplay (not even every connection, just the quickplay connections)?

You have a strange sense of scale.

-James


On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 3:09 PM, Hutch  wrote:

> And I wholly agree with you Asherkin, someone such as yourself who has
> spent so much personal time to this project should have some sort of feel
> such as I do. I guess what I am trying to convey is long gone are the days
> of communities having some sort of code. Whereas you wanted to kick the
> other communities butt by populating your servers, getting your admins on
> and actually playing and socializing. Building your community in that
> fashion, with hard work, time and personal commitment and investment.
>
> There was an unspoken rule that you told your admins you don't go to joe
> blows servers in an effort to recruit, rather, you put your efforts in to
> ones own servers and build your user base. Sure on occasion you had that
> one server operator gone rouge that started DDOS'ing your servers, or that
> one persistent stalker and it went away in a day or two. Now its script
> kiddies gone wild, quick-play and server farms popping up to run ads.
>
> Downward descent started when the hats and weapons came in drops versus
> achievements and became too numerous versus an occasional treat. In-game
> ads for money is just was the bitter cherry on top. Now we have the
> equivalent of TF2 WalMarts popping up on every corner and it has destroyed
> the foundation of a communal effort that supported Valve. Look at the ratio
> of updates and what they pertain towards and whats normally listed at the
> top of the list in an update. Valve felt like a grassroots effort that has
> now gone commercial. Oh hey, nothing wrong with inventing something cool
> and along the way getting rich and popular. But you can do it while keeping
> in touch with the independent guys that helped make it a success.
>
> Mayhaps Valve has lost touch.
> --
> Hutch
>
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>
___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs

[Hutch]

And I wholly agree with you Asherkin, someone such as yourself who has 
spent so much personal time to this project should have some sort of 
feel such as I do. I guess what I am trying to convey is long gone are 
the days of communities having some sort of code. Whereas you wanted to 
kick the other communities butt by populating your servers, getting your 
admins on and actually playing and socializing. Building your community 
in that fashion, with hard work, time and personal commitment and 
investment.


There was an unspoken rule that you told your admins you don't go to 
joe blows servers in an effort to recruit, rather, you put your efforts 
in to ones own servers and build your user base. Sure on occasion you 
had that one server operator gone rouge that started DDOS'ing your 
servers, or that one persistent stalker and it went away in a day or 
two. Now its script kiddies gone wild, quick-play and server farms 
popping up to run ads.


Downward descent started when the hats and weapons came in drops versus 
achievements and became too numerous versus an occasional treat. In-game 
ads for money is just was the bitter cherry on top. Now we have the 
equivalent of TF2 WalMarts popping up on every corner and it has 
destroyed the foundation of a communal effort that supported Valve. Look 
at the ratio of updates and what they pertain towards and whats normally 
listed at the top of the list in an update. Valve felt like a grassroots 
effort that has now gone commercial. Oh hey, nothing wrong with 
inventing something cool and along the way getting rich and popular. But 
you can do it while keeping in touch with the independent guys that 
helped make it a success.


Mayhaps Valve has lost touch.
--
Hutch

___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs

[Doctor McKay]

I agree with this, for the most part. I don't honestly have much of a
problem with the fact that Valve wants to prevent Quickplay servers from
being able to display advertisements to players. However, it would be great
if it could be done in a way that doesn't break ***everything*. As you say,
if people truly like a server, they'll favorite it and come back, and
that's where you'll get your impressions.

Of course, the server wouldn't make as much money as if it were getting
Quickplay ad hits, but I'd wager that a popular server with ads for server
browser joins and donors could probably cover its bills without the owner
having to pay out of pocket (too much). Unfortunately, with the way
Quickplay has impacted TF2, it's very hard for communities to cover their
bills on donations alone. You cite FirePowered, but we still haven't
reached a break-even point yet, after 6 months of existence. Granted, this
number is derived from the total recurring donations that we have active.
We have a few generous donors who helped us out in the beginning, and
that's been enough to sustain us up until now.

Again, to reiterate: preventing Quickplay joins from displaying
advertisements is a rather good thing. However, it would be excellent if it
were done in a way that didn't disable the HTML MOTD for the majority of
players joining the server. However, those who wish to display
advertisements to those who join their servers directly should be allowed
to continue to do so.


Dr. McKay
www.doctormckay.com


On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:02 PM, Lucas Wagner  wrote:

> In my opinion, Jason nailed this.  Organically growing your community is
> the best (and in my opinion) most honest way to pay your bills.  Put out a
> truly excellent product and people will support it with their money.  See
> FirePowered gaming for a good example of an organically grown community.
>
> I think Valve is saying by this update that they agree; Quickplay is not
> to be used to farm ad-impressions.  If they have a great product the
> ad-impressions will come from returning regulars who have added your
> servers to their favorites.  Finding a loophole and exploiting just puts
> yourself at risk, just like people who purchased hundreds of idle
> accounts.
>
> I think this decision was excellent and I'd like to see Valve more
> vigorously enforce the policy of truth going forward.
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 3:07 PM, Jason Tango  wrote:
>
>> Your cite Skial as an example, but what you fail to realize is that those
>> large server groups only have those large number of servers because they
>> are/were trying to use the quickplay system as a source of profit over and
>> above their "expenses", NOT as a response to the natural growth in their
>> "communities."
>>
>> In other words - those kinds of communities did not grow "organically",
>> starting with just enough servers to support their current membership, and
>> adding servers as their community grew. They threw up those huge numbers of
>> servers as nothing more than "quickplay ad farms", turning the playerbase
>> into little more than disposable ad impressions. Do you honestly think any
>> of those groups have the massive community membership necessary to require
>> 80+ servers? Of course not.
>>
>> Do you see the distinction?
>>
>> There are server operators who have slowly and consistently grown their
>> server "regulars", adding to their server fleets as both their membership
>> and funding permitted, and there are those that simply threw up high-volume
>> "quickplay honey pot" fleets of ad-farms/servers with the intent of turning
>> the players into an easy source of profit.
>>
>> Now,  I'm not looking down my nose at Skial (I don't really know anything
>> about them), or any other of these large server fleets, BUT - the fact is
>> that most new players first few experiences with the game will be through
>> quickplay, and the vast number of these ad-farms (many of which were hosted
>> by the hundreds on cheap, under-powered VPS servers) are/were giving these
>> players a very negative first impression of the game.
>>
>> While I don't necessarily agree with HOW Valve has fixed the problem (as
>> I think it stinks that ALL server operators have to be made to suffer due
>> to the actions of those abusing the system), I'm certainly glad Valve is
>> taking steps to at least insure new players don't think that these
>> ad-infested servers are the way ALL servers are run.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2013 21:24:00 +0100
>> From: sai...@speci

Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs

[Asher Baker]

Neither Pinion nor Valve have anything to do with the shady hidden
background ads, that was started by questionable server operators looking
to earn even more money from Pinion's success - it's against the Pinion ToS
so they now go to shady ad providers that don't care about legitimate
traffic or any complaints, at least Pinion tried to bring in advertisers
with relevant products.


~
"Their heads are green, and their hands are blue,
  And they went to sea in a Sieve." - Edward Lear


On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 10:18 PM,  wrote:

> I saw the MOTD update news hit the mailing list a day or two ago and
> quickly dismissed the posting. So forgive my ignorance. Does this update
> mean my simple html that has my communities logo, server rules, list of
> other game servers I run and where to join my forums and how to contact
> admins is no longer going to work?
>
> That is ridiculous if this is the case. A simple ASCII looking limited txt
> file has no pizazz and flare. Although I am personally opposed to running
> ads on my MOTD's or servers, if others have to sponge money by falsely
> giving the impression to foolish advertisers that pay thousands a month
> that think the majority of the 15 year old kids are actually seeing or pay
> mind to those ads, more power to them.
>
> A quick way to put a stop to that is start individually contacting "Uncle
> Bucks Leeto Storage Sheds" or whoever these idiotic advertisers are and
> telling them they are paying for ad impressions to a vast number of 15 and
> younger individuals playing a video game who pay no mind to the ads. Also
> informing them of the ads being subversive and ran as a background,
> minimized process will only help encourage them to drop "impression
> advertising". But hey, if your a server owner whose personality can not
> allow a game server community to ride and you have to rely on quickplay and
> steam browser ads, then do what you got to do. More power to you.
>
> Underhanded sponging funds off hidden ads or video ads just makes you a
> buttlicker.
>
> If Valve takes any form of partnership in such activities, well that makes
> them equally buttlickers as well. That's like Van Halen without Dave, Queen
> without Freddy, Metallica after releasing their stupid "Sandman" album.
> If the case, then we can expect any day to hear Lars Ulrich's winy voice
> complaining...
>
> As I said in the past, this Pinion gig, brilliant idea, wished I had
> thought of it. However, what I feel is that what this will lead too is
> forced advertising on my game servers. If this should ever become the case
> I simply will not host those servers that force advertising. I buy your
> games in fours for my family. I host servers for your games and have since
> day one. I buy extra games and give them away. I run a website promoting
> your games. I do enough. I no longer play TF2 and still run the damn
> servers...
>
> I want a special Badge and Hat for that commitment...
>
> Hutch
>
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>
___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs

[Bottiger]

> Your cite Skial as an example, but what you fail to realize is that those
large server groups only have those large number of servers because they
are/were trying to use the quickplay system as a source of profit over and
above their "expenses", NOT as a response to the natural growth in their
"communities."

> Now,  I'm not looking down my nose at Skial (I don't really know anything
about them)

You say you aren't "looking down your nose at Skial" then admit you "don't
really know anything about" Skial, then make false claims such as being
powered by cheap VPS? We never opened more servers than we can fill, and
when they don't fill they get removed. All of our servers get filled every
day. If this isn't being grown "organically" then I don't know what is.

You can't say that for every other example of "quickplay farms" cited on
this mailing list. 15 of our servers aren't even on quickplay, and we
hosted 3 tf2lobby servers at our expense (they make pretty much nothing). So
please don't make false claims about something you don't know about. This
is why Valve can't take this mailing list seriously.

If you have some strange notion that we are stealing players that belong to
you or that we shouldn't open new servers because half the players don't
have our clan tag, you should correct that belief until someone at Valve
says that is the only appropriate way to run 3rd party servers.


On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 1:07 PM, Jason Tango  wrote:

> Your cite Skial as an example, but what you fail to realize is that those
> large server groups only have those large number of servers because they
> are/were trying to use the quickplay system as a source of profit over and
> above their "expenses", NOT as a response to the natural growth in their
> "communities."
>
> In other words - those kinds of communities did not grow "organically",
> starting with just enough servers to support their current membership, and
> adding servers as their community grew. They threw up those huge numbers of
> servers as nothing more than "quickplay ad farms", turning the playerbase
> into little more than disposable ad impressions. Do you honestly think any
> of those groups have the massive community membership necessary to require
> 80+ servers? Of course not.
>
> Do you see the distinction?
>
> There are server operators who have slowly and consistently grown their
> server "regulars", adding to their server fleets as both their membership
> and funding permitted, and there are those that simply threw up high-volume
> "quickplay honey pot" fleets of ad-farms/servers with the intent of turning
> the players into an easy source of profit.
>
> Now,  I'm not looking down my nose at Skial (I don't really know anything
> about them), or any other of these large server fleets, BUT - the fact is
> that most new players first few experiences with the game will be through
> quickplay, and the vast number of these ad-farms (many of which were hosted
> by the hundreds on cheap, under-powered VPS servers) are/were giving these
> players a very negative first impression of the game.
>
> While I don't necessarily agree with HOW Valve has fixed the problem (as I
> think it stinks that ALL server operators have to be made to suffer due to
> the actions of those abusing the system), I'm certainly glad Valve is
> taking steps to at least insure new players don't think that these
> ad-infested servers are the way ALL servers are run.
>
>
>
> --
> Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2013 21:24:00 +0100
> From: sai...@specialattack.net
> To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
> Subject: Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs
>
>
> Forced in-game ads are evil.
>
>
>
> You’ve already paid for the game, why watch ads?
>
>
>
> There never was such a problem until quickplay and motd allowing video.
>
>
>
> Build a good community and likable servers, and you shall have your money
> through donations. We haven’t done it any differently in the past 15 years
> and we’re still doing so today.
>
>
>
> People are willing to donate bits for a fun community to play at who has
> their own servers up and running.
>
>
>
> The whole problem here is quickplay, you have tons of people roaming
> around random servers without an real good opportunity to bind them to your
> community. Before people would search for likable servers and add them to
> their favorites. These people would then return and start to get familiar
> with other people at the servers. This allowed for great community building.
>
>
>
> Unfortunately I d

Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs

[hutch]

I saw the MOTD update news hit the mailing list a day or two ago and 
quickly dismissed the posting. So forgive my ignorance. Does this update 
mean my simple html that has my communities logo, server rules, list of 
other game servers I run and where to join my forums and how to contact 
admins is no longer going to work?


That is ridiculous if this is the case. A simple ASCII looking limited 
txt file has no pizazz and flare. Although I am personally opposed to 
running ads on my MOTD's or servers, if others have to sponge money by 
falsely giving the impression to foolish advertisers that pay thousands 
a month that think the majority of the 15 year old kids are actually 
seeing or pay mind to those ads, more power to them.


A quick way to put a stop to that is start individually contacting 
"Uncle Bucks Leeto Storage Sheds" or whoever these idiotic advertisers 
are and telling them they are paying for ad impressions to a vast number 
of 15 and younger individuals playing a video game who pay no mind to 
the ads. Also informing them of the ads being subversive and ran as a 
background, minimized process will only help encourage them to drop 
"impression advertising". But hey, if your a server owner whose 
personality can not allow a game server community to ride and you have 
to rely on quickplay and steam browser ads, then do what you got to do. 
More power to you.


Underhanded sponging funds off hidden ads or video ads just makes you a 
buttlicker.


If Valve takes any form of partnership in such activities, well that 
makes them equally buttlickers as well. That's like Van Halen without 
Dave, Queen without Freddy, Metallica after releasing their stupid 
"Sandman" album.
If the case, then we can expect any day to hear Lars Ulrich's winy 
voice complaining...


As I said in the past, this Pinion gig, brilliant idea, wished I had 
thought of it. However, what I feel is that what this will lead too is 
forced advertising on my game servers. If this should ever become the 
case I simply will not host those servers that force advertising. I buy 
your games in fours for my family. I host servers for your games and 
have since day one. I buy extra games and give them away. I run a 
website promoting your games. I do enough. I no longer play TF2 and 
still run the damn servers...


I want a special Badge and Hat for that commitment...

Hutch

___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs

[Indy Palmroth]

Oklesekg snfcnmlgfyuuc
Den 7 nov 2013 22:55 skrev "Doctor McKay" :

> On one hand, TF2 is free. On the other, even if you did pay for the game,
> none of that money goes to the person hosting the servers you play on.
>
> Unless you're paying for the server yourself, the ultimate control of the
> server is up to whoever pays the bills.
>
>
> Dr. McKay
> www.doctormckay.com
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 3:24 PM, Saint K.  wrote:
>
>> Forced in-game ads are evil.
>>
>>
>>
>> You’ve already paid for the game, why watch ads?
>>
>>
>>
>> There never was such a problem until quickplay and motd allowing video.
>>
>>
>>
>> Build a good community and likable servers, and you shall have your money
>> through donations. We haven’t done it any differently in the past 15 years
>> and we’re still doing so today.
>>
>>
>>
>> People are willing to donate bits for a fun community to play at who has
>> their own servers up and running.
>>
>>
>>
>> The whole problem here is quickplay, you have tons of people roaming
>> around random servers without an real good opportunity to bind them to your
>> community. Before people would search for likable servers and add them to
>> their favorites. These people would then return and start to get familiar
>> with other people at the servers. This allowed for great community building.
>>
>>
>>
>> Unfortunately I don’t expect VALVe ever to turn off quickplay. That’s why
>> I think communities will slowly start to die out.
>>
>>
>>
>> I can remember days where 90% of the players in a server had a
>> clan/community tag In front of their name, nowadays you barely ever see
>> them.
>>
>>
>>
>> Saint K.
>>
>> *From:* hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:
>> hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] *On Behalf Of *Supreet
>> *Sent:* Thursday, November 07, 2013 7:58 PM
>> *To:* hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
>> *Subject:* [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs
>>
>>
>>
>> Valve,
>>
>> Listen. People make good money off of running their TF2 servers.
>> Moreover, it helps them pay for the servers.
>>
>> Why don't you just take all our liberty away, pull an EA and cut
>> dedicated servers and host them all yourself?
>>
>> Quickplay has only been beneficial to free to play players or what I like
>> to call "Window Gamers". They try a game because its free then after a
>> while they leave the game because they're bored of hopping on random
>> servers through quick play and finding ads everywhere.
>>
>> The liberty and freedom of browsing through a server list was an amazing
>> idea so you should keep to it.
>>
>> Your quick play scoring system is pretty stupid and flawed. Why? Because
>> its HEAVILY BIASED.
>>
>> Over time, there's just been servers that get a behemoth influx of
>> players and and the quick play system starts favoring them. Therefore,
>> ignoring the possibility of any potentially better servers people might
>> like if they ended up on them.
>>
>> You should really consider stopping your shenanigans. You can't make up
>> your own mind Valve. You released an update months ago with vague release
>> notes about the removal of HTML motds then you modified it and now you just
>> released another update.
>> If you really cared about the game server operators, you would remove
>> this bs "tweak" and give server operators the liberty to use methods to
>> recovery money to cover costs and pocket money for their efforts.
>>
>> OR
>>
>> Build a better dedicated server that doesn't eat up so many resources so
>> server operators don't have to pay $30 a month for a single server to a
>> hosting company. There are communities that run great servers and multiple
>> of them. Imagine the frikkin cost of servers Skial has to deal with, with
>> their massive 80 something servers.
>>
>> These ads help pay for these expensive DDoS protected servers hosted by
>> big communities.
>>
>> A lot of concerned people have offered their tiny bits of tweaks and
>> solutions to your update but it will never stop.
>>
>> Either pull an EA and remove MOTDs overall, doom us all so we can get
>> some closure and move on LOL or let server operators have the freedom to
>> run their server the way they want.
>>
>> Why don't you just work with the ad companies and get them to make a
>> variable that

Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs

[Bjorn Wielens]

Most people here aren't saying they don't agree with the need to do something 
about the abuse, just that the way valve chose to resolve the problem
also severely impacts people that use MOTDs legitimately and leaves them little 
to no way to make their server stand out to anyone that 
visits the server. THAT is what people are angry about. 



On Thu, 11/7/13, Lucas Wagner  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs
 To: "Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list" 

 Received: Thursday, November 7, 2013, 6:02 PM
 
 In my opinion, Jason
 nailed this.  Organically growing your community is the
 best (and in my opinion) most honest way to pay your
 bills.  Put out a truly excellent product and people will
 support it with their money.  See FirePowered gaming for a
 good example of an organically grown community.  
 
 
 I think Valve is saying by this update that they
 agree; Quickplay is not to be used to farm ad-impressions. 
 If they have a great product the ad-impressions will come
 from returning regulars who have added your servers to their
 favorites.  Finding a loophole and exploiting just puts
 yourself at risk, just like people who purchased hundreds of
 idle accounts.  
 
 
 I think this decision was excellent and I'd like to see
 Valve more vigorously enforce the policy of truth going
 forward.
 
 
 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at
 3:07 PM, Jason Tango 
 wrote:
 
 
 
 
 Your cite Skial as an example, but what
 you fail to realize is that those large server groups only
 have those large number of servers because they are/were
 trying to use the quickplay system as a source of profit
 over and above their "expenses", NOT as a response
 to the natural growth in their "communities."
 
 In other words - those kinds of communities did
 not grow "organically", starting with just enough
 servers to support their current membership, and adding
 servers as their community grew. They threw up those huge
 numbers of servers as nothing more than "quickplay ad
 farms", turning the playerbase into little more than
 disposable ad impressions. Do you honestly think any of
 those groups have the massive community membership necessary
 to require 80+ servers? Of course not.
 
 Do you see the distinction? 
 There are server operators who have slowly and
 consistently grown their server "regulars", adding
 to their server fleets as both their membership and funding
 permitted, and there are those that simply threw up
 high-volume "quickplay honey pot" fleets of
 ad-farms/servers with the intent of turning the players into
 an easy source of profit.
 
 Now,  I'm not looking down my nose at Skial
 (I don't really know anything about them), or any other
 of these large server fleets, BUT - the fact is that most
 new players first few experiences with the game will be
 through quickplay, and the vast number of these ad-farms
 (many of which were hosted by the hundreds on cheap,
 under-powered VPS servers) are/were giving these players a
 very negative first impression of the game.
 
 While I don't necessarily agree with HOW
 Valve has fixed the problem (as I think it stinks that ALL
 server operators have to be made to suffer due to the
 actions of those abusing the system), I'm certainly glad
 Valve is taking steps to at least insure new players
 don't think that these ad-infested servers are the way
 ALL servers are run.
 
 
 
 Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2013 21:24:00 +0100
 From: sai...@specialattack.net
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 
 Subject: Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about
 MOTDs
 
 Forced
 in-game ads are evil.
  You’ve already
 paid for the game, why watch ads?
  There never was such
 a problem until quickplay and motd allowing
 video.
  Build a good
 community and likable servers, and you shall have your money
 through donations. We haven’t done it any differently in
 the past 15 years and we’re still doing so
 today.
  People are willing
 to donate bits for a fun community to play at who has their
 own servers up and running.
  The whole problem
 here is quickplay, you have tons of people roaming around
 random servers without an real good opportunity to bind them
 to your community. Before people would search for likable
 servers and add them to their favorites. These people would
 then return and start to get familiar with other people at
 the servers. This allowed for great community
 building.
  Unfortunately I
 don’t expect VALVe ever to turn off quickplay. That’s
 why I think communities will slowly start to die
 out.
  I can remember days
 where 90% of the players in a server had a clan/community
 tag In front of their name, nowadays you barely ever see
 them.
  Saint K.
 From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
 [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com]
 On Behalf Of Supreet
 
 Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 7:58 PM
 To: h

Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs

[Lucas Wagner]

In my opinion, Jason nailed this.  Organically growing your community is
the best (and in my opinion) most honest way to pay your bills.  Put out a
truly excellent product and people will support it with their money.  See
FirePowered gaming for a good example of an organically grown community.

I think Valve is saying by this update that they agree; Quickplay is not to
be used to farm ad-impressions.  If they have a great product the
ad-impressions will come from returning regulars who have added your
servers to their favorites.  Finding a loophole and exploiting just puts
yourself at risk, just like people who purchased hundreds of idle
accounts.

I think this decision was excellent and I'd like to see Valve more
vigorously enforce the policy of truth going forward.


On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 3:07 PM, Jason Tango  wrote:

> Your cite Skial as an example, but what you fail to realize is that those
> large server groups only have those large number of servers because they
> are/were trying to use the quickplay system as a source of profit over and
> above their "expenses", NOT as a response to the natural growth in their
> "communities."
>
> In other words - those kinds of communities did not grow "organically",
> starting with just enough servers to support their current membership, and
> adding servers as their community grew. They threw up those huge numbers of
> servers as nothing more than "quickplay ad farms", turning the playerbase
> into little more than disposable ad impressions. Do you honestly think any
> of those groups have the massive community membership necessary to require
> 80+ servers? Of course not.
>
> Do you see the distinction?
>
> There are server operators who have slowly and consistently grown their
> server "regulars", adding to their server fleets as both their membership
> and funding permitted, and there are those that simply threw up high-volume
> "quickplay honey pot" fleets of ad-farms/servers with the intent of turning
> the players into an easy source of profit.
>
> Now,  I'm not looking down my nose at Skial (I don't really know anything
> about them), or any other of these large server fleets, BUT - the fact is
> that most new players first few experiences with the game will be through
> quickplay, and the vast number of these ad-farms (many of which were hosted
> by the hundreds on cheap, under-powered VPS servers) are/were giving these
> players a very negative first impression of the game.
>
> While I don't necessarily agree with HOW Valve has fixed the problem (as I
> think it stinks that ALL server operators have to be made to suffer due to
> the actions of those abusing the system), I'm certainly glad Valve is
> taking steps to at least insure new players don't think that these
> ad-infested servers are the way ALL servers are run.
>
>
>
> --
> Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2013 21:24:00 +0100
> From: sai...@specialattack.net
> To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
> Subject: Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs
>
>
> Forced in-game ads are evil.
>
>
>
> You’ve already paid for the game, why watch ads?
>
>
>
> There never was such a problem until quickplay and motd allowing video.
>
>
>
> Build a good community and likable servers, and you shall have your money
> through donations. We haven’t done it any differently in the past 15 years
> and we’re still doing so today.
>
>
>
> People are willing to donate bits for a fun community to play at who has
> their own servers up and running.
>
>
>
> The whole problem here is quickplay, you have tons of people roaming
> around random servers without an real good opportunity to bind them to your
> community. Before people would search for likable servers and add them to
> their favorites. These people would then return and start to get familiar
> with other people at the servers. This allowed for great community building.
>
>
>
> Unfortunately I don’t expect VALVe ever to turn off quickplay. That’s why
> I think communities will slowly start to die out.
>
>
>
> I can remember days where 90% of the players in a server had a
> clan/community tag In front of their name, nowadays you barely ever see
> them.
>
>
>
> Saint K.
>
> *From:* hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:
> hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] *On Behalf Of *Supreet
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 07, 2013 7:58 PM
> *To:* hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
> *Subject:* [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs
>
>
> Valve,
> Listen. People make good money off of running their TF2 servers. Moreover,
> it helps them pay for the servers.
> Why don't you just take

Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs

[Bjorn Wielens]

By the same logic, you've already paid for your tv, why should you have to 
watch ads in your tv shows?
You've already paid for your internet connection, why should you have to see 
ads anywhere online?

Or are you already campaigning against both of those as well, when you know 
full well that you're using what you've paid for to 
receive a SERVICE which has seen exactly ZERO of the money you spent on the 
initial product?

If we lived in a magical fairy-land, then yes, everyone could afford to run 
based on donations alone. 
Welcome to the real world, where that is not the case. Especially for 
communities that are just starting up or looking for
some extra funds to expand or do stuff for their members. 




On Thu, 11/7/13, Saint K.  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs
 To: "'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list'" 

 Received: Thursday, November 7, 2013, 4:24 PM
 
 Forced in-game ads are
 evil.  You’ve already paid for the
 game, why watch ads?  There never was such a problem
 until quickplay and motd allowing video.  Build a good community and
 likable servers, and you shall have your money through
 donations. We haven’t done it any differently in the past
 15 years and we’re still doing so today.  People are willing to donate
 bits for a fun community to play at who has their own
 servers up and running.  The whole problem here is
 quickplay, you have tons of people roaming around random
 servers without an real good opportunity to bind them to
 your community. Before people would search for likable
 servers and add them to their favorites. These people would
 then return and start to get familiar with other people at
 the servers. This allowed for great community
 building.  Unfortunately I don’t expect
 VALVe ever to turn off quickplay. That’s why I think
 communities will slowly start to die out.  I can remember days where 90%
 of the players in a server had a clan/community tag In front
 of their name, nowadays you barely ever see
 them.  Saint K.From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
 [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of
 Supreet
 Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 7:58 PM
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about
 MOTDs
  Valve,Listen. People make good money off
 of running their TF2 servers. Moreover, it helps them pay
 for the servers. Why don't you just take all our
 liberty away, pull an EA and cut dedicated servers and host
 them all yourself?Quickplay has only been beneficial
 to free to play players or what I like to call "Window
 Gamers". They try a game because its free then after a
 while they leave the game because they're bored of
 hopping on random servers through quick play and finding ads
 everywhere.The liberty and freedom of browsing
 through a server list was an amazing idea so you should keep
 to it.Your quick play scoring system is pretty stupid
 and flawed. Why? Because its HEAVILY BIASED.Over
 time, there's just been servers that get a behemoth
 influx of players and and the quick play system starts
 favoring them. Therefore, ignoring the possibility of any
 potentially better servers people might like if they ended
 up on them.You should really consider stopping your
 shenanigans. You can't make up your own mind Valve. You
 released an update months ago with vague release notes about
 the removal of HTML motds then you modified it and now you
 just released another update. 
 If you really cared about the game server operators, you
 would remove this bs "tweak" and give server
 operators the liberty to use methods to recovery money to
 cover costs and pocket money for their
 efforts.ORBuild a better dedicated server that
 doesn't eat up so many resources so server operators
 don't have to pay $30 a month for a single server to a
 hosting company. There are communities that run great
 servers and multiple of them. Imagine the frikkin cost of
 servers Skial has to deal with, with their massive 80
 something servers. These ads help pay for these
 expensive DDoS protected servers hosted by big
 communities.A lot of concerned people have offered
 their tiny bits of tweaks and solutions to your update but
 it will never stop. Either pull an EA and remove
 MOTDs overall, doom us all so we can get some closure and
 move on LOL or let server operators have the freedom to run
 their server the way they want.Why don't you just
 work with the ad companies and get them to make a variable
 that tells the quickplay system read if the server is ad
 enabled, or maybe through sv_tags and DEDUCT score off of
 quickplay.It'll make all the complaining kids
 happy. 50% less chance I'll end up on an ad enabled
 server.Many thanks and regards.Please
 contribute to this discussion in a professional and
 cognitively inclined manner an

Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs

[Doctor McKay]

On one hand, TF2 is free. On the other, even if you did pay for the game,
none of that money goes to the person hosting the servers you play on.

Unless you're paying for the server yourself, the ultimate control of the
server is up to whoever pays the bills.


Dr. McKay
www.doctormckay.com


On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 3:24 PM, Saint K.  wrote:

> Forced in-game ads are evil.
>
>
>
> You’ve already paid for the game, why watch ads?
>
>
>
> There never was such a problem until quickplay and motd allowing video.
>
>
>
> Build a good community and likable servers, and you shall have your money
> through donations. We haven’t done it any differently in the past 15 years
> and we’re still doing so today.
>
>
>
> People are willing to donate bits for a fun community to play at who has
> their own servers up and running.
>
>
>
> The whole problem here is quickplay, you have tons of people roaming
> around random servers without an real good opportunity to bind them to your
> community. Before people would search for likable servers and add them to
> their favorites. These people would then return and start to get familiar
> with other people at the servers. This allowed for great community building.
>
>
>
> Unfortunately I don’t expect VALVe ever to turn off quickplay. That’s why
> I think communities will slowly start to die out.
>
>
>
> I can remember days where 90% of the players in a server had a
> clan/community tag In front of their name, nowadays you barely ever see
> them.
>
>
>
> Saint K.
>
> *From:* hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:
> hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] *On Behalf Of *Supreet
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 07, 2013 7:58 PM
> *To:* hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
> *Subject:* [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs
>
>
>
> Valve,
>
> Listen. People make good money off of running their TF2 servers. Moreover,
> it helps them pay for the servers.
>
> Why don't you just take all our liberty away, pull an EA and cut dedicated
> servers and host them all yourself?
>
> Quickplay has only been beneficial to free to play players or what I like
> to call "Window Gamers". They try a game because its free then after a
> while they leave the game because they're bored of hopping on random
> servers through quick play and finding ads everywhere.
>
> The liberty and freedom of browsing through a server list was an amazing
> idea so you should keep to it.
>
> Your quick play scoring system is pretty stupid and flawed. Why? Because
> its HEAVILY BIASED.
>
> Over time, there's just been servers that get a behemoth influx of players
> and and the quick play system starts favoring them. Therefore, ignoring the
> possibility of any potentially better servers people might like if they
> ended up on them.
>
> You should really consider stopping your shenanigans. You can't make up
> your own mind Valve. You released an update months ago with vague release
> notes about the removal of HTML motds then you modified it and now you just
> released another update.
> If you really cared about the game server operators, you would remove this
> bs "tweak" and give server operators the liberty to use methods to recovery
> money to cover costs and pocket money for their efforts.
>
> OR
>
> Build a better dedicated server that doesn't eat up so many resources so
> server operators don't have to pay $30 a month for a single server to a
> hosting company. There are communities that run great servers and multiple
> of them. Imagine the frikkin cost of servers Skial has to deal with, with
> their massive 80 something servers.
>
> These ads help pay for these expensive DDoS protected servers hosted by
> big communities.
>
> A lot of concerned people have offered their tiny bits of tweaks and
> solutions to your update but it will never stop.
>
> Either pull an EA and remove MOTDs overall, doom us all so we can get some
> closure and move on LOL or let server operators have the freedom to run
> their server the way they want.
>
> Why don't you just work with the ad companies and get them to make a
> variable that tells the quickplay system read if the server is ad enabled,
> or maybe through sv_tags and DEDUCT score off of quickplay.
>
> It'll make all the complaining kids happy. 50% less chance I'll end up on
> an ad enabled server.
>
> Many thanks and regards.
>
> Please contribute to this discussion in a professional and cognitively
> inclined manner and refrain from being monkeys yelling at each other on the
> mailing list.
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>
>
___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs

[Jason Tango]

Your cite Skial as an example, but what you fail to realize is that those large 
server groups only have those large number of servers because they are/were 
trying to use the quickplay system as a source of profit over and above their 
"expenses", NOT as a response to the natural growth in their "communities."
In other words - those kinds of communities did not grow "organically", 
starting with just enough servers to support their current membership, and 
adding servers as their community grew. They threw up those huge numbers of 
servers as nothing more than "quickplay ad farms", turning the playerbase into 
little more than disposable ad impressions. Do you honestly think any of those 
groups have the massive community membership necessary to require 80+ servers? 
Of course not.
Do you see the distinction? 
There are server operators who have slowly and consistently grown their server 
"regulars", adding to their server fleets as both their membership and funding 
permitted, and there are those that simply threw up high-volume "quickplay 
honey pot" fleets of ad-farms/servers with the intent of turning the players 
into an easy source of profit.
Now,  I'm not looking down my nose at Skial (I don't really know anything about 
them), or any other of these large server fleets, BUT - the fact is that most 
new players first few experiences with the game will be through quickplay, and 
the vast number of these ad-farms (many of which were hosted by the hundreds on 
cheap, under-powered VPS servers) are/were giving these players a very negative 
first impression of the game.
While I don't necessarily agree with HOW Valve has fixed the problem (as I 
think it stinks that ALL server operators have to be made to suffer due to the 
actions of those abusing the system), I'm certainly glad Valve is taking steps 
to at least insure new players don't think that these ad-infested servers are 
the way ALL servers are run.


Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2013 21:24:00 +0100
From: sai...@specialattack.net
To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
Subject: Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs

Forced in-game ads are evil. You’ve already paid for the game, why watch ads? 
There never was such a problem until quickplay and motd allowing video. Build a 
good community and likable servers, and you shall have your money through 
donations. We haven’t done it any differently in the past 15 years and we’re 
still doing so today. People are willing to donate bits for a fun community to 
play at who has their own servers up and running. The whole problem here is 
quickplay, you have tons of people roaming around random servers without an 
real good opportunity to bind them to your community. Before people would 
search for likable servers and add them to their favorites. These people would 
then return and start to get familiar with other people at the servers. This 
allowed for great community building. Unfortunately I don’t expect VALVe ever 
to turn off quickplay. That’s why I think communities will slowly start to die 
out. I can remember days where 90% of the players in a server had a 
clan/community tag In front of their name, nowadays you barely ever see them. 
Saint K.From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com 
[mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Supreet
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 7:58 PM
To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
Subject: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs Valve,
Listen. People make good money off of running their TF2 servers. Moreover, it 
helps them pay for the servers. 
Why don't you just take all our liberty away, pull an EA and cut dedicated 
servers and host them all yourself?
Quickplay has only been beneficial to free to play players or what I like to 
call "Window Gamers". They try a game because its free then after a while they 
leave the game because they're bored of hopping on random servers through quick 
play and finding ads everywhere.
The liberty and freedom of browsing through a server list was an amazing idea 
so you should keep to it.
Your quick play scoring system is pretty stupid and flawed. Why? Because its 
HEAVILY BIASED.
Over time, there's just been servers that get a behemoth influx of players and 
and the quick play system starts favoring them. Therefore, ignoring the 
possibility of any potentially better servers people might like if they ended 
up on them.
You should really consider stopping your shenanigans. You can't make up your 
own mind Valve. You released an update months ago with vague release notes 
about the removal of HTML motds then you modified it and now you just released 
another update. 
If you really cared about the game server operators, you would remove this bs 
"tweak" and give server operators the liberty to use methods to recovery money 
to cover costs and pocket money for their efforts.
OR
Build a better dedicated ser

Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs

[Alteran Ancient]

I no longer understand. Is this a rant about MOTD changes, or is it an
argument about Quickplay? Now, I fail to see the point in changes to the
MOTD - game hosts should have the freedom to decide what players are met
with when they join their server, regardless of how that user got there.

Quickplay, on the other hand, is a system with good intentions: to get
inexperienced players straight into a game without having to try and decode
the server list. This much I agree with. The vetting process that adds
servers to this pool, however, is arguably flawed in the sense that the
same servers that have managed to get on to that system will always be on
there.

You can argue, though, that if a server gets enough players to be added to
the QJ pool, that they're good candidates for adding new players anyway.
That's what the system was designed for - why dump new players onto an
empty server?

If you're one of those empty server operators and you're reading this, ask
yourself this: "What are these other operators doing that I'm not?" How
would you modify the system in such a way that it would favour your servers
over the others? How would you make that distinction?
___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs

[Saint K.]

Forced in-game ads are evil.
 
You’ve already paid for the game, why watch ads?
 
There never was such a problem until quickplay and motd allowing video.
 
Build a good community and likable servers, and you shall have your money 
through donations. We haven’t done it any differently in the past 15 years and 
we’re still doing so today.
 
People are willing to donate bits for a fun community to play at who has their 
own servers up and running.
 
The whole problem here is quickplay, you have tons of people roaming around 
random servers without an real good opportunity to bind them to your community. 
Before people would search for likable servers and add them to their favorites. 
These people would then return and start to get familiar with other people at 
the servers. This allowed for great community building.
 
Unfortunately I don’t expect VALVe ever to turn off quickplay. That’s why I 
think communities will slowly start to die out.
 
I can remember days where 90% of the players in a server had a clan/community 
tag In front of their name, nowadays you barely ever see them.
 
Saint K.
From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com 
[mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Supreet
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 7:58 PM
To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
Subject: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs
 
Valve,
Listen. People make good money off of running their TF2 servers. Moreover, it 
helps them pay for the servers. 
Why don't you just take all our liberty away, pull an EA and cut dedicated 
servers and host them all yourself?
Quickplay has only been beneficial to free to play players or what I like to 
call "Window Gamers". They try a game because its free then after a while they 
leave the game because they're bored of hopping on random servers through quick 
play and finding ads everywhere.
The liberty and freedom of browsing through a server list was an amazing idea 
so you should keep to it.
Your quick play scoring system is pretty stupid and flawed. Why? Because its 
HEAVILY BIASED.
Over time, there's just been servers that get a behemoth influx of players and 
and the quick play system starts favoring them. Therefore, ignoring the 
possibility of any potentially better servers people might like if they ended 
up on them.
You should really consider stopping your shenanigans. You can't make up your 
own mind Valve. You released an update months ago with vague release notes 
about the removal of HTML motds then you modified it and now you just released 
another update. 
If you really cared about the game server operators, you would remove this bs 
"tweak" and give server operators the liberty to use methods to recovery money 
to cover costs and pocket money for their efforts.
OR
Build a better dedicated server that doesn't eat up so many resources so server 
operators don't have to pay $30 a month for a single server to a hosting 
company. There are communities that run great servers and multiple of them. 
Imagine the frikkin cost of servers Skial has to deal with, with their massive 
80 something servers. 
These ads help pay for these expensive DDoS protected servers hosted by big 
communities.
A lot of concerned people have offered their tiny bits of tweaks and solutions 
to your update but it will never stop. 
Either pull an EA and remove MOTDs overall, doom us all so we can get some 
closure and move on LOL or let server operators have the freedom to run their 
server the way they want.
Why don't you just work with the ad companies and get them to make a variable 
that tells the quickplay system read if the server is ad enabled, or maybe 
through sv_tags and DEDUCT score off of quickplay.
It'll make all the complaining kids happy. 50% less chance I'll end up on an ad 
enabled server.
Many thanks and regards.
Please contribute to this discussion in a professional and cognitively inclined 
manner and refrain from being monkeys yelling at each other on the mailing list.___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs

[ics]

explode.. explore! Dammit typos.

-ics

ics kirjoitti:
You are saying that quickplay is bad? It drives players into your 
servers. How is that a bad thing? Only bad thing is that there is no 
option for people to explode - thus practically no custom maps get 
attention and Valve is reclutant to add workshop to TF2 for maps. I 
can only guess why.


-ics

Paul kirjoitti:
Quickplay is a bad idea, it's exploited, and I can easily imagine 
that it will still be abused by server owners that know how to 
exploit it, whether or not they can play ads.


Quickplay should either be removed from the game, forcing players to 
explore the server browser listing and make use of favourites (like 
in the past with TFC), or Quickplay should be used only for Valve 
official vanilla servers. That's my two cents...



On 7 November 2013 18:57, Supreet > wrote:


Valve,

Listen. People make good money off of running their TF2 servers.
Moreover, it helps them pay for the servers.

Why don't you just take all our liberty away, pull an EA and cut
dedicated servers and host them all yourself?

Quickplay has only been beneficial to free to play players or what
I like to call "Window Gamers". They try a game because its free
then after a while they leave the game because they're bored of
hopping on random servers through quick play and finding ads
everywhere.

The liberty and freedom of browsing through a server list was an
amazing idea so you should keep to it.

Your quick play scoring system is pretty stupid and flawed. Why?
Because its HEAVILY BIASED.

Over time, there's just been servers that get a behemoth influx of
players and and the quick play system starts favoring them.
Therefore, ignoring the possibility of any potentially better
servers people might like if they ended up on them.

You should really consider stopping your shenanigans. You can't
make up your own mind Valve. You released an update months ago
with vague release notes about the removal of HTML motds then you
modified it and now you just released another update.
If you really cared about the game server operators, you would
remove this bs "tweak" and give server operators the liberty to
use methods to recovery money to cover costs and pocket money for
their efforts.

OR

Build a better dedicated server that doesn't eat up so many
resources so server operators don't have to pay $30 a month for a
single server to a hosting company. There are communities that run
great servers and multiple of them. Imagine the frikkin cost of
servers Skial has to deal with, with their massive 80 something
servers.

These ads help pay for these expensive DDoS protected servers
hosted by big communities.

A lot of concerned people have offered their tiny bits of tweaks
and solutions to your update but it will never stop.

Either pull an EA and remove MOTDs overall, doom us all so we can
get some closure and move on LOL or let server operators have the
freedom to run their server the way they want.

Why don't you just work with the ad companies and get them to make
a variable that tells the quickplay system read if the server is
ad enabled, or maybe through sv_tags and DEDUCT score off of
quickplay.

It'll make all the complaining kids happy. 50% less chance I'll
end up on an ad enabled server.

Many thanks and regards.

Please contribute to this discussion in a professional and
cognitively inclined manner and refrain from being monkeys yelling
at each other on the mailing list.


___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
archives, please visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds




___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list 
archives, please visit:

https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds



___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, 
please visit:

https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds



___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs

[ics]

You are saying that quickplay is bad? It drives players into your 
servers. How is that a bad thing? Only bad thing is that there is no 
option for people to explode - thus practically no custom maps get 
attention and Valve is reclutant to add workshop to TF2 for maps. I can 
only guess why.


-ics

Paul kirjoitti:
Quickplay is a bad idea, it's exploited, and I can easily imagine that 
it will still be abused by server owners that know how to exploit it, 
whether or not they can play ads.


Quickplay should either be removed from the game, forcing players to 
explore the server browser listing and make use of favourites (like in 
the past with TFC), or Quickplay should be used only for Valve 
official vanilla servers. That's my two cents...



On 7 November 2013 18:57, Supreet > wrote:


Valve,

Listen. People make good money off of running their TF2 servers.
Moreover, it helps them pay for the servers.

Why don't you just take all our liberty away, pull an EA and cut
dedicated servers and host them all yourself?

Quickplay has only been beneficial to free to play players or what
I like to call "Window Gamers". They try a game because its free
then after a while they leave the game because they're bored of
hopping on random servers through quick play and finding ads
everywhere.

The liberty and freedom of browsing through a server list was an
amazing idea so you should keep to it.

Your quick play scoring system is pretty stupid and flawed. Why?
Because its HEAVILY BIASED.

Over time, there's just been servers that get a behemoth influx of
players and and the quick play system starts favoring them.
Therefore, ignoring the possibility of any potentially better
servers people might like if they ended up on them.

You should really consider stopping your shenanigans. You can't
make up your own mind Valve. You released an update months ago
with vague release notes about the removal of HTML motds then you
modified it and now you just released another update.
If you really cared about the game server operators, you would
remove this bs "tweak" and give server operators the liberty to
use methods to recovery money to cover costs and pocket money for
their efforts.

OR

Build a better dedicated server that doesn't eat up so many
resources so server operators don't have to pay $30 a month for a
single server to a hosting company. There are communities that run
great servers and multiple of them. Imagine the frikkin cost of
servers Skial has to deal with, with their massive 80 something
servers.

These ads help pay for these expensive DDoS protected servers
hosted by big communities.

A lot of concerned people have offered their tiny bits of tweaks
and solutions to your update but it will never stop.

Either pull an EA and remove MOTDs overall, doom us all so we can
get some closure and move on LOL or let server operators have the
freedom to run their server the way they want.

Why don't you just work with the ad companies and get them to make
a variable that tells the quickplay system read if the server is
ad enabled, or maybe through sv_tags and DEDUCT score off of
quickplay.

It'll make all the complaining kids happy. 50% less chance I'll
end up on an ad enabled server.

Many thanks and regards.

Please contribute to this discussion in a professional and
cognitively inclined manner and refrain from being monkeys yelling
at each other on the mailing list.


___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
archives, please visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds




___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds



___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs

[1nsane]

That would be much worse than it being removed entirely. When most players
(especially the new ones) use just quickplay we'll end up with tons of dead
servers and little variety in the game.
Which will mean the game will die sooner than it has to as well.


On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 2:11 PM, Paul  wrote:

> Quickplay is a bad idea, it's exploited, and I can easily imagine that it
> will still be abused by server owners that know how to exploit it, whether
> or not they can play ads.
>
> Quickplay should either be removed from the game, forcing players to
> explore the server browser listing and make use of favourites (like in the
> past with TFC), or Quickplay should be used only for Valve official vanilla
> servers. That's my two cents...
>
>
> On 7 November 2013 18:57, Supreet  wrote:
>
>> Valve,
>>
>> Listen. People make good money off of running their TF2 servers.
>> Moreover, it helps them pay for the servers.
>>
>> Why don't you just take all our liberty away, pull an EA and cut
>> dedicated servers and host them all yourself?
>>
>> Quickplay has only been beneficial to free to play players or what I like
>> to call "Window Gamers". They try a game because its free then after a
>> while they leave the game because they're bored of hopping on random
>> servers through quick play and finding ads everywhere.
>>
>> The liberty and freedom of browsing through a server list was an amazing
>> idea so you should keep to it.
>>
>> Your quick play scoring system is pretty stupid and flawed. Why? Because
>> its HEAVILY BIASED.
>>
>> Over time, there's just been servers that get a behemoth influx of
>> players and and the quick play system starts favoring them. Therefore,
>> ignoring the possibility of any potentially better servers people might
>> like if they ended up on them.
>>
>> You should really consider stopping your shenanigans. You can't make up
>> your own mind Valve. You released an update months ago with vague release
>> notes about the removal of HTML motds then you modified it and now you just
>> released another update.
>> If you really cared about the game server operators, you would remove
>> this bs "tweak" and give server operators the liberty to use methods to
>> recovery money to cover costs and pocket money for their efforts.
>>
>> OR
>>
>> Build a better dedicated server that doesn't eat up so many resources so
>> server operators don't have to pay $30 a month for a single server to a
>> hosting company. There are communities that run great servers and multiple
>> of them. Imagine the frikkin cost of servers Skial has to deal with, with
>> their massive 80 something servers.
>>
>> These ads help pay for these expensive DDoS protected servers hosted by
>> big communities.
>>
>> A lot of concerned people have offered their tiny bits of tweaks and
>> solutions to your update but it will never stop.
>>
>> Either pull an EA and remove MOTDs overall, doom us all so we can get
>> some closure and move on LOL or let server operators have the freedom to
>> run their server the way they want.
>>
>> Why don't you just work with the ad companies and get them to make a
>> variable that tells the quickplay system read if the server is ad enabled,
>> or maybe through sv_tags and DEDUCT score off of quickplay.
>>
>> It'll make all the complaining kids happy. 50% less chance I'll end up on
>> an ad enabled server.
>>
>> Many thanks and regards.
>>
>> Please contribute to this discussion in a professional and cognitively
>> inclined manner and refrain from being monkeys yelling at each other on the
>> mailing list.
>>
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> please visit:
>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>>
>>
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>
>
___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs

[Paul]

Quickplay is a bad idea, it's exploited, and I can easily imagine that it
will still be abused by server owners that know how to exploit it, whether
or not they can play ads.

Quickplay should either be removed from the game, forcing players to
explore the server browser listing and make use of favourites (like in the
past with TFC), or Quickplay should be used only for Valve official vanilla
servers. That's my two cents...


On 7 November 2013 18:57, Supreet  wrote:

> Valve,
>
> Listen. People make good money off of running their TF2 servers. Moreover,
> it helps them pay for the servers.
>
> Why don't you just take all our liberty away, pull an EA and cut dedicated
> servers and host them all yourself?
>
> Quickplay has only been beneficial to free to play players or what I like
> to call "Window Gamers". They try a game because its free then after a
> while they leave the game because they're bored of hopping on random
> servers through quick play and finding ads everywhere.
>
> The liberty and freedom of browsing through a server list was an amazing
> idea so you should keep to it.
>
> Your quick play scoring system is pretty stupid and flawed. Why? Because
> its HEAVILY BIASED.
>
> Over time, there's just been servers that get a behemoth influx of players
> and and the quick play system starts favoring them. Therefore, ignoring the
> possibility of any potentially better servers people might like if they
> ended up on them.
>
> You should really consider stopping your shenanigans. You can't make up
> your own mind Valve. You released an update months ago with vague release
> notes about the removal of HTML motds then you modified it and now you just
> released another update.
> If you really cared about the game server operators, you would remove this
> bs "tweak" and give server operators the liberty to use methods to recovery
> money to cover costs and pocket money for their efforts.
>
> OR
>
> Build a better dedicated server that doesn't eat up so many resources so
> server operators don't have to pay $30 a month for a single server to a
> hosting company. There are communities that run great servers and multiple
> of them. Imagine the frikkin cost of servers Skial has to deal with, with
> their massive 80 something servers.
>
> These ads help pay for these expensive DDoS protected servers hosted by
> big communities.
>
> A lot of concerned people have offered their tiny bits of tweaks and
> solutions to your update but it will never stop.
>
> Either pull an EA and remove MOTDs overall, doom us all so we can get some
> closure and move on LOL or let server operators have the freedom to run
> their server the way they want.
>
> Why don't you just work with the ad companies and get them to make a
> variable that tells the quickplay system read if the server is ad enabled,
> or maybe through sv_tags and DEDUCT score off of quickplay.
>
> It'll make all the complaining kids happy. 50% less chance I'll end up on
> an ad enabled server.
>
> Many thanks and regards.
>
> Please contribute to this discussion in a professional and cognitively
> inclined manner and refrain from being monkeys yelling at each other on the
> mailing list.
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>
>
___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

Re: [hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs

[DontWannaName!]

Tldr run what you can afford. Fixes everything.

Sent from my iPhone 5

> On Nov 7, 2013, at 10:57 AM, Supreet  wrote:
> 
> Valve,
> 
> Listen. People make good money off of running their TF2 servers. Moreover, it 
> helps them pay for the servers.
> 
> Why don't you just take all our liberty away, pull an EA and cut dedicated 
> servers and host them all yourself?
> 
> Quickplay has only been beneficial to free to play players or what I like to 
> call "Window Gamers". They try a game because its free then after a while 
> they leave the game because they're bored of hopping on random servers 
> through quick play and finding ads everywhere.
> 
> The liberty and freedom of browsing through a server list was an amazing idea 
> so you should keep to it.
> 
> Your quick play scoring system is pretty stupid and flawed. Why? Because its 
> HEAVILY BIASED.
> 
> Over time, there's just been servers that get a behemoth influx of players 
> and and the quick play system starts favoring them. Therefore, ignoring the 
> possibility of any potentially better servers people might like if they ended 
> up on them.
> 
> You should really consider stopping your shenanigans. You can't make up your 
> own mind Valve. You released an update months ago with vague release notes 
> about the removal of HTML motds then you modified it and now you just 
> released another update. 
> If you really cared about the game server operators, you would remove this bs 
> "tweak" and give server operators the liberty to use methods to recovery 
> money to cover costs and pocket money for their efforts.
> 
> OR
> 
> Build a better dedicated server that doesn't eat up so many resources so 
> server operators don't have to pay $30 a month for a single server to a 
> hosting company. There are communities that run great servers and multiple of 
> them. Imagine the frikkin cost of servers Skial has to deal with, with their 
> massive 80 something servers.
> 
> These ads help pay for these expensive DDoS protected servers hosted by big 
> communities.
> 
> A lot of concerned people have offered their tiny bits of tweaks and 
> solutions to your update but it will never stop.
> 
> Either pull an EA and remove MOTDs overall, doom us all so we can get some 
> closure and move on LOL or let server operators have the freedom to run their 
> server the way they want.
> 
> Why don't you just work with the ad companies and get them to make a variable 
> that tells the quickplay system read if the server is ad enabled, or maybe 
> through sv_tags and DEDUCT score off of quickplay.
> 
> It'll make all the complaining kids happy. 50% less chance I'll end up on an 
> ad enabled server.
> 
> Many thanks and regards.
> 
> Please contribute to this discussion in a professional and cognitively 
> inclined manner and refrain from being monkeys yelling at each other on the 
> mailing list.
> 
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
> visit:
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

[hlds] An open letter to Valve about MOTDs

[Supreet]

Valve,

Listen. People make good money off of running their TF2 servers. Moreover,
it helps them pay for the servers.

Why don't you just take all our liberty away, pull an EA and cut dedicated
servers and host them all yourself?

Quickplay has only been beneficial to free to play players or what I like
to call "Window Gamers". They try a game because its free then after a
while they leave the game because they're bored of hopping on random
servers through quick play and finding ads everywhere.

The liberty and freedom of browsing through a server list was an amazing
idea so you should keep to it.

Your quick play scoring system is pretty stupid and flawed. Why? Because
its HEAVILY BIASED.

Over time, there's just been servers that get a behemoth influx of players
and and the quick play system starts favoring them. Therefore, ignoring the
possibility of any potentially better servers people might like if they
ended up on them.

You should really consider stopping your shenanigans. You can't make up
your own mind Valve. You released an update months ago with vague release
notes about the removal of HTML motds then you modified it and now you just
released another update.
If you really cared about the game server operators, you would remove this
bs "tweak" and give server operators the liberty to use methods to recovery
money to cover costs and pocket money for their efforts.

OR

Build a better dedicated server that doesn't eat up so many resources so
server operators don't have to pay $30 a month for a single server to a
hosting company. There are communities that run great servers and multiple
of them. Imagine the frikkin cost of servers Skial has to deal with, with
their massive 80 something servers.

These ads help pay for these expensive DDoS protected servers hosted by big
communities.

A lot of concerned people have offered their tiny bits of tweaks and
solutions to your update but it will never stop.

Either pull an EA and remove MOTDs overall, doom us all so we can get some
closure and move on LOL or let server operators have the freedom to run
their server the way they want.

Why don't you just work with the ad companies and get them to make a
variable that tells the quickplay system read if the server is ad enabled,
or maybe through sv_tags and DEDUCT score off of quickplay.

It'll make all the complaining kids happy. 50% less chance I'll end up on
an ad enabled server.

Many thanks and regards.

Please contribute to this discussion in a professional and cognitively
inclined manner and refrain from being monkeys yelling at each other on the
mailing list.
___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds