Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

[Admin]

OMG yes they do and they lose 35% audience as a result. People will just
move on. It would be less damaging to just eradicate TF2

 

From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
[mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Jonah Hirsch
Sent: Wednesday, 8 February 2012 11:21 AM
To: d...@forlix.org; Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

 

Lotta places use phone numbers with text message verification to this
effect.


---

Jonah Hirsch




On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 7:38 AM, Dominik Friedrichs  wrote:

Or require a Steam account to be verified somehow and to be tied to an
individual, maybe via name of credit card owner or something.



On 2012/02/07 15:06, lwf wrote:

Requiring other games on the account is the way to go. The problem
we're dealing with now is the TF2 license not having any value. A ban
doesn't mean anything other than to older players that doesn't cheat,
but makes no difference to cheaters with a week old account, they got
a different or brand new within 20 seconds. The same goes for VAC
which in practice has become a non issue for all cheaters except those
competitive scene, but you could never rely on it anyway so it's not
the main issue here.

It isn't so much TF2 not having any value as it is the Steam account
not having any value that is the real problem, since we like to ban
using Steam IDs. It doesn't matter to the community if a player spent
5 USD/EUR filling his Steam wallet to buy a sticky launcher and become
premium or if it was spent buying some indie game. The only thing that
matters is that something much more significant than 20 seconds of
clicking "next" was spent to gain access, which once again makes the
Steam account into collateral. Of course now it doesn't because the
Steam account having a value isn't required to play TF2, but if that
were to change the problem is solved.

Most real (as opposed to playing on a secondary account) players are
likely to own some games on Steam already, if you don't then why are
you even gaming on a PC (or Apple PC) in the first place? Many of the
most popular games are Steam only, making a Steam account requirement
much less intrusive than a TF2 DLC requirement. If a F2P kicking
plugin could be extended to also check the total value of a Steam
account to also allow access to players with games for more than
4-5ish USD/EUR (TF2 premium is 5 USD/EUR and it would be a bit of a
kicker if a player is denied access for owning games worth 4.8
USD/EUR), filtering some games that could, can or has been registered
en masse, such as Portal, HL2DM and indie bundles or even using a
database of the lowest prices and use those when counting the total. A
central database for storing the players that has passed would be
ideal in case of future lowered prices (losing access you already had
because of a Steam sale or permanent price change would not be OK) as
well as having a web interface using Steams OpenID to allow players
with private account settings to gain access to all servers using such
filtering without having to set their profile to public, which I
believe would otherwise be required. Now it costs 4-5 USD/EUR to
bypass a ban instead of 20 seconds and that's enough.

Summery: TF2 is free but that isn't the problem, bans not having any
impact is. Require the Steam account to be worth an equivalent of the
price of TF2 premium to play and the problem is solved.

On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 13:17, Mart-Jan Reeuwijk  wrote:

Been thinking bout these:

If having a stats system (http://www.hlxce.com/ for example) that one only
allows access to a bunch of servers if they have at least an xx amount of
time on the system. The remainder of server(s) can then be heavily loaded
with SMAC and other anticheat.

The other being that only accounts created before a certain date are
allowed. For later players, make it some "request for access" thread on the
community forum or w/e.

Another that its required that having at least 1 paid game on the account
must be there (so anything, excluding the F2P games and free weekend games)
to be playing on the server.


From: E. Olsen
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list

Sent: Tuesday, 7 February 2012, 12:40

Subject: Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

I would honestly just like to hear why there does not seem to be any limit
on new accounts these clowns can create. When F2P was announced, all the
server operators voiced their concerns about this very issue, and we were
assured that there were already mechanisms in place to prevent abuse. I've
had one player that is on his 11th or 12th account now, and he creates them
to be able to sexually harass some of our female players (some really vile
stuff). He has it down to a science now, in that he can get banned, and be
back on the server with a new account in unde

Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

[DarthNinja]

Yeah, that's what I meant to say.
I guess I was distracted by something shiny.

On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 10:52 PM, Brandon Albertson wrote:

> Cheaters don't have to use a CC, that is more along the lines of the mass
> idlers.
>
>
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Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

[Brandon Albertson]

Cheaters don't have to use a CC, that is more along the lines of the mass
idlers.
On Feb 7, 2012 9:50 PM, "DarthNinja"  wrote:
>
> Re: lwf and Dominik:
> Using other games on the account can be defeated by buying loads of
HumbleBundle packages (though admittedly this could be blacklisted like
valve did when people were farming coal).
> Using a credit card can be defeated by buying one of those visa giftcards
that are sold everywhere (which is probably what cheaters are already
doing).
>
>
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Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

[DarthNinja]

Re: lwf and Dominik:
Using other games on the account can be defeated by buying loads of
HumbleBundle packages (though admittedly this could be blacklisted like
valve did when people were farming coal).
Using a credit card can be defeated by buying one of those visa giftcards
that are sold everywhere (which is probably what cheaters are already
doing).
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Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

[Jonah Hirsch]

Lotta places use phone numbers with text message verification to this
effect.
---
Jonah Hirsch



On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 7:38 AM, Dominik Friedrichs  wrote:

> Or require a Steam account to be verified somehow and to be tied to an
> individual, maybe via name of credit card owner or something.
>
>
> On 2012/02/07 15:06, lwf wrote:
>
>> Requiring other games on the account is the way to go. The problem
>> we're dealing with now is the TF2 license not having any value. A ban
>> doesn't mean anything other than to older players that doesn't cheat,
>> but makes no difference to cheaters with a week old account, they got
>> a different or brand new within 20 seconds. The same goes for VAC
>> which in practice has become a non issue for all cheaters except those
>> competitive scene, but you could never rely on it anyway so it's not
>> the main issue here.
>>
>> It isn't so much TF2 not having any value as it is the Steam account
>> not having any value that is the real problem, since we like to ban
>> using Steam IDs. It doesn't matter to the community if a player spent
>> 5 USD/EUR filling his Steam wallet to buy a sticky launcher and become
>> premium or if it was spent buying some indie game. The only thing that
>> matters is that something much more significant than 20 seconds of
>> clicking "next" was spent to gain access, which once again makes the
>> Steam account into collateral. Of course now it doesn't because the
>> Steam account having a value isn't required to play TF2, but if that
>> were to change the problem is solved.
>>
>> Most real (as opposed to playing on a secondary account) players are
>> likely to own some games on Steam already, if you don't then why are
>> you even gaming on a PC (or Apple PC) in the first place? Many of the
>> most popular games are Steam only, making a Steam account requirement
>> much less intrusive than a TF2 DLC requirement. If a F2P kicking
>> plugin could be extended to also check the total value of a Steam
>> account to also allow access to players with games for more than
>> 4-5ish USD/EUR (TF2 premium is 5 USD/EUR and it would be a bit of a
>> kicker if a player is denied access for owning games worth 4.8
>> USD/EUR), filtering some games that could, can or has been registered
>> en masse, such as Portal, HL2DM and indie bundles or even using a
>> database of the lowest prices and use those when counting the total. A
>> central database for storing the players that has passed would be
>> ideal in case of future lowered prices (losing access you already had
>> because of a Steam sale or permanent price change would not be OK) as
>> well as having a web interface using Steams OpenID to allow players
>> with private account settings to gain access to all servers using such
>> filtering without having to set their profile to public, which I
>> believe would otherwise be required. Now it costs 4-5 USD/EUR to
>> bypass a ban instead of 20 seconds and that's enough.
>>
>> Summery: TF2 is free but that isn't the problem, bans not having any
>> impact is. Require the Steam account to be worth an equivalent of the
>> price of TF2 premium to play and the problem is solved.
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 13:17, Mart-Jan Reeuwijk
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> Been thinking bout these:
>>>
>>> If having a stats system (http://www.hlxce.com/ for example) that one
>>> only
>>> allows access to a bunch of servers if they have at least an xx amount of
>>> time on the system. The remainder of server(s) can then be heavily loaded
>>> with SMAC and other anticheat.
>>>
>>> The other being that only accounts created before a certain date are
>>> allowed. For later players, make it some "request for access" thread on
>>> the
>>> community forum or w/e.
>>>
>>> Another that its required that having at least 1 paid game on the account
>>> must be there (so anything, excluding the F2P games and free weekend
>>> games)
>>> to be playing on the server.
>>>
>>> __**__
>>> From: E. Olsen
>>> To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
>>> 
>>> Sent: Tuesday, 7 February 2012, 12:40
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters
>>>
>>> I would honestly just like to hear why there does not seem to be any
>>> limit
>>> on new accounts these clowns can create. When F2P was announced, all the
>>> s

Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

[Dominik Friedrichs]

Or require a Steam account to be verified somehow and to be tied to an 
individual, maybe via name of credit card owner or something.


On 2012/02/07 15:06, lwf wrote:

Requiring other games on the account is the way to go. The problem
we're dealing with now is the TF2 license not having any value. A ban
doesn't mean anything other than to older players that doesn't cheat,
but makes no difference to cheaters with a week old account, they got
a different or brand new within 20 seconds. The same goes for VAC
which in practice has become a non issue for all cheaters except those
competitive scene, but you could never rely on it anyway so it's not
the main issue here.

It isn't so much TF2 not having any value as it is the Steam account
not having any value that is the real problem, since we like to ban
using Steam IDs. It doesn't matter to the community if a player spent
5 USD/EUR filling his Steam wallet to buy a sticky launcher and become
premium or if it was spent buying some indie game. The only thing that
matters is that something much more significant than 20 seconds of
clicking "next" was spent to gain access, which once again makes the
Steam account into collateral. Of course now it doesn't because the
Steam account having a value isn't required to play TF2, but if that
were to change the problem is solved.

Most real (as opposed to playing on a secondary account) players are
likely to own some games on Steam already, if you don't then why are
you even gaming on a PC (or Apple PC) in the first place? Many of the
most popular games are Steam only, making a Steam account requirement
much less intrusive than a TF2 DLC requirement. If a F2P kicking
plugin could be extended to also check the total value of a Steam
account to also allow access to players with games for more than
4-5ish USD/EUR (TF2 premium is 5 USD/EUR and it would be a bit of a
kicker if a player is denied access for owning games worth 4.8
USD/EUR), filtering some games that could, can or has been registered
en masse, such as Portal, HL2DM and indie bundles or even using a
database of the lowest prices and use those when counting the total. A
central database for storing the players that has passed would be
ideal in case of future lowered prices (losing access you already had
because of a Steam sale or permanent price change would not be OK) as
well as having a web interface using Steams OpenID to allow players
with private account settings to gain access to all servers using such
filtering without having to set their profile to public, which I
believe would otherwise be required. Now it costs 4-5 USD/EUR to
bypass a ban instead of 20 seconds and that's enough.

Summery: TF2 is free but that isn't the problem, bans not having any
impact is. Require the Steam account to be worth an equivalent of the
price of TF2 premium to play and the problem is solved.

On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 13:17, Mart-Jan Reeuwijk  wrote:

Been thinking bout these:

If having a stats system (http://www.hlxce.com/ for example) that one only
allows access to a bunch of servers if they have at least an xx amount of
time on the system. The remainder of server(s) can then be heavily loaded
with SMAC and other anticheat.

The other being that only accounts created before a certain date are
allowed. For later players, make it some "request for access" thread on the
community forum or w/e.

Another that its required that having at least 1 paid game on the account
must be there (so anything, excluding the F2P games and free weekend games)
to be playing on the server.


From: E. Olsen
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list

Sent: Tuesday, 7 February 2012, 12:40

Subject: Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

I would honestly just like to hear why there does not seem to be any limit
on new accounts these clowns can create. When F2P was announced, all the
server operators voiced their concerns about this very issue, and we were
assured that there were already mechanisms in place to prevent abuse. I've
had one player that is on his 11th or 12th account now, and he creates them
to be able to sexually harass some of our female players (some really vile
stuff). He has it down to a science now, in that he can get banned, and be
back on the server with a new account in under 5 minutes.

IP bans don't work, since he has a dynamic IP, and I can't exactly shut out
his whole geographic region by banning the whole IP range either.

I'm not sure what the solution would be, but it doesn't seem like Valve is
very concerned about it (?)

On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 11:13 PM, Rob Liu  wrote:

Install those kicking free to play account plugin would sort of solve the
problem.  But that means all the legit free to play players can't access to
your server.
Would be nice to hear what's Valve's take on this issue.

On Sat, Feb 4, 2012 at 5:46 A

Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

[lwf]

Requiring other games on the account is the way to go. The problem
we're dealing with now is the TF2 license not having any value. A ban
doesn't mean anything other than to older players that doesn't cheat,
but makes no difference to cheaters with a week old account, they got
a different or brand new within 20 seconds. The same goes for VAC
which in practice has become a non issue for all cheaters except those
competitive scene, but you could never rely on it anyway so it's not
the main issue here.

It isn't so much TF2 not having any value as it is the Steam account
not having any value that is the real problem, since we like to ban
using Steam IDs. It doesn't matter to the community if a player spent
5 USD/EUR filling his Steam wallet to buy a sticky launcher and become
premium or if it was spent buying some indie game. The only thing that
matters is that something much more significant than 20 seconds of
clicking "next" was spent to gain access, which once again makes the
Steam account into collateral. Of course now it doesn't because the
Steam account having a value isn't required to play TF2, but if that
were to change the problem is solved.

Most real (as opposed to playing on a secondary account) players are
likely to own some games on Steam already, if you don't then why are
you even gaming on a PC (or Apple PC) in the first place? Many of the
most popular games are Steam only, making a Steam account requirement
much less intrusive than a TF2 DLC requirement. If a F2P kicking
plugin could be extended to also check the total value of a Steam
account to also allow access to players with games for more than
4-5ish USD/EUR (TF2 premium is 5 USD/EUR and it would be a bit of a
kicker if a player is denied access for owning games worth 4.8
USD/EUR), filtering some games that could, can or has been registered
en masse, such as Portal, HL2DM and indie bundles or even using a
database of the lowest prices and use those when counting the total. A
central database for storing the players that has passed would be
ideal in case of future lowered prices (losing access you already had
because of a Steam sale or permanent price change would not be OK) as
well as having a web interface using Steams OpenID to allow players
with private account settings to gain access to all servers using such
filtering without having to set their profile to public, which I
believe would otherwise be required. Now it costs 4-5 USD/EUR to
bypass a ban instead of 20 seconds and that's enough.

Summery: TF2 is free but that isn't the problem, bans not having any
impact is. Require the Steam account to be worth an equivalent of the
price of TF2 premium to play and the problem is solved.

On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 13:17, Mart-Jan Reeuwijk  wrote:
> Been thinking bout these:
>
> If having a stats system (http://www.hlxce.com/ for example) that one only
> allows access to a bunch of servers if they have at least an xx amount of
> time on the system. The remainder of server(s) can then be heavily loaded
> with SMAC and other anticheat.
>
> The other being that only accounts created before a certain date are
> allowed. For later players, make it some "request for access" thread on the
> community forum or w/e.
>
> Another that its required that having at least 1 paid game on the account
> must be there (so anything, excluding the F2P games and free weekend games)
> to be playing on the server.
>
> 
> From: E. Olsen 
> To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
> 
> Sent: Tuesday, 7 February 2012, 12:40
>
> Subject: Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters
>
> I would honestly just like to hear why there does not seem to be any limit
> on new accounts these clowns can create. When F2P was announced, all the
> server operators voiced their concerns about this very issue, and we were
> assured that there were already mechanisms in place to prevent abuse. I've
> had one player that is on his 11th or 12th account now, and he creates them
> to be able to sexually harass some of our female players (some really vile
> stuff). He has it down to a science now, in that he can get banned, and be
> back on the server with a new account in under 5 minutes.
>
> IP bans don't work, since he has a dynamic IP, and I can't exactly shut out
> his whole geographic region by banning the whole IP range either.
>
> I'm not sure what the solution would be, but it doesn't seem like Valve is
> very concerned about it (?)
>
> On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 11:13 PM, Rob Liu  wrote:
>
> Install those kicking free to play account plugin would sort of solve the
> problem.  But that means all the legit free to play players can't access to
> your server.
> Would be nice to hear what's Valve's take on t

Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

[admin]

VAC can ban most of these source hooks they have to *update codex* to do
it... or make a new way that's more complex for injection of openGL

"Source-Mod Anti Cheat" uses allot of resources and most "rent a server"
places will not allow you to use it...

Here is what was release little then month ago is why your "Cheating"
problem has grown... (this was released last month)

http://i.imgur.com/k7Uh0.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/E52NS.jpg

Keep in mind the cheat "designers" read this hlds digest also so when you
talk about using a anti cheat there updating there hooks..

So last time i checked to get in-game interface you have to have matching
codex with VAC to validate there is no altering of the game..
Only other way for them to CHEAT is with material hacks I don't know if
Valve knows about it or how to fix it but one update did slow it down..
Source Engine Changes (CS:S, DoD:S, TF2, HL2:DM)

   - Updated the materials used on models to ignore the $ignorez flag, to
   make it harder to create wallhacks on sv_pure 0 servers




And that was a little off topic but the main way to "Ban" this cheat that
keeps coming in and to use HLSW and do get info capture his ip copy+paste
PERM BAN.. FIXED if hes changing ips ban range for 24hours.



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Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

[Mart-Jan Reeuwijk]

Been thinking bout these:

If having a stats system (http://www.hlxce.com/ for example) that one only 
allows access to a bunch of servers if they have at least an xx amount of time 
on the system. The remainder of server(s) can then be heavily loaded with SMAC 
and other anticheat.

The other being that only accounts created before a certain date are allowed. 
For later players, make it some "request for access" thread on the community 
forum or w/e.


Another that its required that having at least 1 paid game on the account must 
be there (so anything, excluding the F2P games and free weekend games) to be 
playing on the server. 




>
> From: E. Olsen 
>To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list 
> 
>Sent: Tuesday, 7 February 2012, 12:40
>Subject: Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters
> 
>
>I would honestly just like to hear why there does not seem to be any limit on 
>new accounts these clowns can create. When F2P was announced, all the server 
>operators voiced their concerns about this very issue, and we were assured 
>that there were already mechanisms in place to prevent abuse. I've had one 
>player that is on his 11th or 12th account now, and he creates them to be able 
>to sexually harass some of our female players (some really vile stuff). He has 
>it down to a science now, in that he can get banned, and be back on the server 
>with a new account in under 5 minutes.
>
>IP bans don't work, since he has a dynamic IP, and I can't exactly shut out 
>his whole geographic region by banning the whole IP range either.
>
>I'm not sure what the solution would be, but it doesn't seem like Valve is 
>very concerned about it (?)
>
>
>On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 11:13 PM, Rob Liu  wrote:
>
>Install those kicking free to play account plugin would sort of solve the 
>problem.  But that means all the legit free to play players can't access to 
>your server.
>>Would be nice to hear what's Valve's take on this issue.
>>
>>
>>On Sat, Feb 4, 2012 at 5:46 AM, Ken Bateman  wrote:
>>
>>On 2/2/2012 12:12 PM, Lance Waidzunas wrote:
>>>
>>>Is that plugin made available to other server admins, Tom?  I'd love to 
>>>install that on our servers.
>>>>
>>>
It's not 100% done and polished, but it's working fine.  You can get the 
current source at 
https://bitbucket.org/novadenizen/antinamehack/src/9c99ad06b5d1/antinamehack.sp
>>>
>>>-Ken
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>___
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>>>please visit:
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>>>
>>
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>>
>
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Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

[Harry Strongburg]

On Tue, Feb 07, 2012 at 06:40:49AM -0500, E. Olsen wrote:
> to be able to sexually harass some of our female players (some really vile
> stuff). He has it down to a science now, in that he can get banned, and be
> back on the server with a new account in under 5 minutes.
> 
> IP bans don't work, since he has a dynamic IP, and I can't exactly shut out
> his whole geographic region by banning the whole IP range either.

Does he get a rise out of your server or something when he does it? Most 
of those people just do it for attention. If they stop getting 
attention, they don't come back.

You could make a plugin that would ban anyone from his IP range with a 
newer Steam ID. That'd make it not hurt as many people.

Or you could even get the police involved if he continues his 
harassment. If he has seriously done it as much as you say he has, 
that'd be a legitmiate complaint you should file with your local police 
department with IP+time logs, or just abuse@hisISP though you don't get 
much luck with those on residential ISPs.

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Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

[E. Olsen]

I would honestly just like to hear why there does not seem to be any limit
on new accounts these clowns can create. When F2P was announced, all the
server operators voiced their concerns about this very issue, and we were
assured that there were already mechanisms in place to prevent abuse. I've
had one player that is on his 11th or 12th account now, and he creates them
to be able to sexually harass some of our female players (some really vile
stuff). He has it down to a science now, in that he can get banned, and be
back on the server with a new account in under 5 minutes.

IP bans don't work, since he has a dynamic IP, and I can't exactly shut out
his whole geographic region by banning the whole IP range either.

I'm not sure what the solution would be, but it doesn't seem like Valve is
very concerned about it (?)

On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 11:13 PM, Rob Liu  wrote:

> Install those kicking free to play account plugin would sort of solve the
> problem.  But that means all the legit free to play players can't access to
> your server.
> Would be nice to hear what's Valve's take on this issue.
>
> On Sat, Feb 4, 2012 at 5:46 AM, Ken Bateman  wrote:
>
>> On 2/2/2012 12:12 PM, Lance Waidzunas wrote:
>>
>>> Is that plugin made available to other server admins, Tom?  I'd love to
>>> install that on our servers.
>>>
>>
>> It's not 100% done and polished, but it's working fine.  You can get the
>> current source at https://bitbucket.org/**novadenizen/antinamehack/src/**
>> 9c99ad06b5d1/antinamehack.sp
>>
>> -Ken
>>
>>
>>
>> __**_
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>> please visit:
>> https://list.valvesoftware.**com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/**hlds
>>
>
>
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Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

[Rob Liu]

Install those kicking free to play account plugin would sort of solve the
problem.  But that means all the legit free to play players can't access to
your server.
Would be nice to hear what's Valve's take on this issue.

On Sat, Feb 4, 2012 at 5:46 AM, Ken Bateman  wrote:

> On 2/2/2012 12:12 PM, Lance Waidzunas wrote:
>
>> Is that plugin made available to other server admins, Tom?  I'd love to
>> install that on our servers.
>>
>
> It's not 100% done and polished, but it's working fine.  You can get the
> current source at https://bitbucket.org/**novadenizen/antinamehack/src/**
> 9c99ad06b5d1/antinamehack.sp
>
> -Ken
>
>
>
> __**_
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> please visit:
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Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

[Ken Bateman]

On 2/2/2012 12:12 PM, Lance Waidzunas wrote:
Is that plugin made available to other server admins, Tom?  I'd love 
to install that on our servers.


It's not 100% done and polished, but it's working fine.  You can get the 
current source at 
https://bitbucket.org/novadenizen/antinamehack/src/9c99ad06b5d1/antinamehack.sp


-Ken


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Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

[Bruno Garcia]

I love how cheat programmers keep using the the 'debug' Draw box for
wallhacks.

Places where I've seen the debug drawbox:
* used for rendering area portals in-game with sv_cheats 1
Places where I've seen using the debug drawbox as cheats:
* too many to count

Perhaps it would helpful to check on the vac module if a player's is using
a render function...

On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 5:10 PM, lwf  wrote:

> Valve already has a limit but it's not very aggressive. Perhaps they
> can bypass it, or it's the only reason they're not changing their name
> every tick.
>
> On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 18:03, Lance Waidzunas  wrote:
> > Sorry to chime in late, and if this has already been brought up, I
> > apologize...
> >
> > But is there anyway Valve could implement a minimum time between name
> > changes?  I could care less about the hackers and what not, but it's
> kind of
> > a pain in the butt when you're trying to ban someone quickly in server
> and
> > their name keeps changing.  My admins and myself are usually playing when
> > these idiots drop by the eXtv servers and it'd be great if there was even
> > like 5-10 second minimum between name changes so we have a moment to pop
> a
> > ban in and carry on w/ the game.
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 10:57 AM, Mart-Jan Reeuwijk 
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Well, here you go:
> >>
> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mD7Fi7xC-gg
> >> They dont even care bout VAC anymore, for that takes couple weeks,
> couple
> >> weeks they can cheat around, and then take a new one.
> >>
> >> And I think its more appropriate to fork the topic with its own thread
> >> about DDOS attacks etc.
> >>
> >> 
> >> From: Chad Hedstrom 
> >> To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
> >> 
> >> Sent: Thursday, 2 February 2012, 0:13
> >>
> >> Subject: Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters
> >>
> >> Note to gameserver coders: it would be great to have some sort of
> >> rudimentary DDoS protection, i.e. gameserver level firewall that says
> >> "ignore packets from IPs X, Y, Z.
> >>
> >> I've been dealing with a very persistent DDoS attack on my BF3 servers
> >> recently (he has it set on a nightly timer!) and we almost had to
> >> switch to a virtual managed server to take advantage of Windows
> >> Server's more advanced firewall options - at $180 a month. A huge
> >> shout out to John at NFO for helping me with this. The DDoS attacks
> >> wouldn't crash the server, but it would cause the server to drop all
> >> the players.
> >>
> >> Long story short, DDoS tools are becoming more of a problem and easier
> >> to find (LOIC anybody?) and it would be nice to have some rudimentary
> >> protection built in, if only so that the plugin community can expand
> >> upon it. Maybe something to think about for CS:GO and HL3DM? ;)
> >>
> >> On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 3:18 PM, Connor M. 
> >> wrote:
> >> > Just hope that they don't go deep into illegal territory and (D)DoS
> your
> >> > servers. If they happen to do so, get a hold of your host/ISP (if
> you're
> >> > running a server that you built/bought and are not using a host) and
> >> > explain
> >> > what happened as some programs that do such things can produce EXTREME
> >> > amounts of bandwidth which can net you with a $15K bill (like someone
> on
> >> > Facepunch experienced, didn't see the thread myself because there's
> too
> >> > much
> >> > traffic all the time). Then, look up the IP so that you can get a hold
> >> > of
> >> > local authorities and their ISP and tell them that they're doing
> illegal
> >> > things. Hope for the best, and rest feeling good that you got rid of
> >> > another
> >> > skid.
> >>
> >> ___
> >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> >> please visit:
> >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> >> please visit:
> >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
> >>
> >
> >
> > ___
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Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

[lwf]

Valve already has a limit but it's not very aggressive. Perhaps they
can bypass it, or it's the only reason they're not changing their name
every tick.

On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 18:03, Lance Waidzunas  wrote:
> Sorry to chime in late, and if this has already been brought up, I
> apologize...
>
> But is there anyway Valve could implement a minimum time between name
> changes?  I could care less about the hackers and what not, but it's kind of
> a pain in the butt when you're trying to ban someone quickly in server and
> their name keeps changing.  My admins and myself are usually playing when
> these idiots drop by the eXtv servers and it'd be great if there was even
> like 5-10 second minimum between name changes so we have a moment to pop a
> ban in and carry on w/ the game.
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 10:57 AM, Mart-Jan Reeuwijk 
> wrote:
>>
>> Well, here you go:
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mD7Fi7xC-gg
>> They dont even care bout VAC anymore, for that takes couple weeks, couple
>> weeks they can cheat around, and then take a new one.
>>
>> And I think its more appropriate to fork the topic with its own thread
>> about DDOS attacks etc.
>>
>> 
>> From: Chad Hedstrom 
>> To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
>> 
>> Sent: Thursday, 2 February 2012, 0:13
>>
>> Subject: Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters
>>
>> Note to gameserver coders: it would be great to have some sort of
>> rudimentary DDoS protection, i.e. gameserver level firewall that says
>> "ignore packets from IPs X, Y, Z.
>>
>> I've been dealing with a very persistent DDoS attack on my BF3 servers
>> recently (he has it set on a nightly timer!) and we almost had to
>> switch to a virtual managed server to take advantage of Windows
>> Server's more advanced firewall options - at $180 a month. A huge
>> shout out to John at NFO for helping me with this. The DDoS attacks
>> wouldn't crash the server, but it would cause the server to drop all
>> the players.
>>
>> Long story short, DDoS tools are becoming more of a problem and easier
>> to find (LOIC anybody?) and it would be nice to have some rudimentary
>> protection built in, if only so that the plugin community can expand
>> upon it. Maybe something to think about for CS:GO and HL3DM? ;)
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 3:18 PM, Connor M. 
>> wrote:
>> > Just hope that they don't go deep into illegal territory and (D)DoS your
>> > servers. If they happen to do so, get a hold of your host/ISP (if you're
>> > running a server that you built/bought and are not using a host) and
>> > explain
>> > what happened as some programs that do such things can produce EXTREME
>> > amounts of bandwidth which can net you with a $15K bill (like someone on
>> > Facepunch experienced, didn't see the thread myself because there's too
>> > much
>> > traffic all the time). Then, look up the IP so that you can get a hold
>> > of
>> > local authorities and their ISP and tell them that they're doing illegal
>> > things. Hope for the best, and rest feeling good that you got rid of
>> > another
>> > skid.
>>
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> please visit:
>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> please visit:
>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>>
>
>
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Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

[Mart-Jan Reeuwijk]

I tho one was on SM already.

http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?p=1504588

yeap, prolly some others as well.

 



>
> From: Lance Waidzunas 
>To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list 
> 
>Sent: Thursday, 2 February 2012, 18:12
>Subject: Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters
> 
>
>Is that plugin made available to other server admins, Tom?  I'd love to 
>install that on our servers.
>
>
>On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 11:10 AM, Tom Weir  wrote:
>
>One of our server admins wrote a sm plugin that counts name changes per player 
>over a short period of time. If they exceed a threshold, they’re kicked 
>automatically.
>> 
>>Also, sourcemod’s sm_who is very helpful for determining who to kick/ban, as 
>>it will give you a unique number per player, rather than trying to use their 
>>name to ban.
>> 
>>From:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com 
>>[mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Lance Waidzunas
>>Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 9:04 AM
>>
>>To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
>>
>>Subject: Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters
>> 
>>Sorry to chime in late, and if this has already been brought up, I 
>>apologize...
>> 
>>But is there anyway Valve could implement a minimum time between name 
>>changes?  I could care less about the hackers and what not, but it's kind of 
>>a pain in the butt when you're trying to ban someone quickly in server and 
>>their name keeps changing.  My admins and myself are usually playing when 
>>these idiots drop by the eXtv servers and it'd be great if there was even 
>>like 5-10 second minimum between name changes so we have a moment to pop a 
>>ban in and carry on w/ the game. 
>> 
>>___
>>To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
>>visit:
>>https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>>
>>
>
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Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

[Lance Waidzunas]

Is that plugin made available to other server admins, Tom?  I'd love to
install that on our servers.

On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 11:10 AM, Tom Weir  wrote:

>  One of our server admins wrote a sm plugin that counts name changes per
> player over a short period of time. If they exceed a threshold, they’re
> kicked automatically.
>
> ** **
>
> Also, sourcemod’s sm_who is very helpful for determining who to kick/ban,
> as it will give you a unique number per player, rather than trying to use
> their name to ban.
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:
> hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] *On Behalf Of *Lance Waidzunas
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 02, 2012 9:04 AM
>
> *To:* Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
> *Subject:* Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters
>
> ** **
>
> Sorry to chime in late, and if this has already been brought up, I
> apologize...
>
> ** **
>
> But is there anyway Valve could implement a minimum time between name
> changes?  I could care less about the hackers and what not, but it's kind
> of a pain in the butt when you're trying to ban someone quickly in server
> and their name keeps changing.  My admins and myself are usually playing
> when these idiots drop by the eXtv servers and it'd be great if there was
> even like 5-10 second minimum between name changes so we have a moment to
> pop a ban in and carry on w/ the game. 
>
> ** **
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>
>
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Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

[Tom Weir]

One of our server admins wrote a sm plugin that counts name changes per player 
over a short period of time. If they exceed a threshold, they're kicked 
automatically.

Also, sourcemod's sm_who is very helpful for determining who to kick/ban, as it 
will give you a unique number per player, rather than trying to use their name 
to ban.

From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com 
[mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Lance Waidzunas
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 9:04 AM
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

Sorry to chime in late, and if this has already been brought up, I apologize...

But is there anyway Valve could implement a minimum time between name changes?  
I could care less about the hackers and what not, but it's kind of a pain in 
the butt when you're trying to ban someone quickly in server and their name 
keeps changing.  My admins and myself are usually playing when these idiots 
drop by the eXtv servers and it'd be great if there was even like 5-10 second 
minimum between name changes so we have a moment to pop a ban in and carry on 
w/ the game.

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Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

[Wander]

Remember that sourcemod, besides stuff like @red and @blue, also has
@aim, so you can spectate someone who changes name non-stop, and then
use "sm_ban @aim" to ban the person you are spectating


On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 18:03, Lance Waidzunas  wrote:
> Sorry to chime in late, and if this has already been brought up, I
> apologize...
>
> But is there anyway Valve could implement a minimum time between name
> changes?  I could care less about the hackers and what not, but it's kind of
> a pain in the butt when you're trying to ban someone quickly in server and
> their name keeps changing.  My admins and myself are usually playing when
> these idiots drop by the eXtv servers and it'd be great if there was even
> like 5-10 second minimum between name changes so we have a moment to pop a
> ban in and carry on w/ the game.
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 10:57 AM, Mart-Jan Reeuwijk 
> wrote:
>>
>> Well, here you go:
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mD7Fi7xC-gg
>> They dont even care bout VAC anymore, for that takes couple weeks, couple
>> weeks they can cheat around, and then take a new one.
>>
>> And I think its more appropriate to fork the topic with its own thread
>> about DDOS attacks etc.
>>
>> 
>> From: Chad Hedstrom 
>> To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
>> 
>> Sent: Thursday, 2 February 2012, 0:13
>>
>> Subject: Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters
>>
>> Note to gameserver coders: it would be great to have some sort of
>> rudimentary DDoS protection, i.e. gameserver level firewall that says
>> "ignore packets from IPs X, Y, Z.
>>
>> I've been dealing with a very persistent DDoS attack on my BF3 servers
>> recently (he has it set on a nightly timer!) and we almost had to
>> switch to a virtual managed server to take advantage of Windows
>> Server's more advanced firewall options - at $180 a month. A huge
>> shout out to John at NFO for helping me with this. The DDoS attacks
>> wouldn't crash the server, but it would cause the server to drop all
>> the players.
>>
>> Long story short, DDoS tools are becoming more of a problem and easier
>> to find (LOIC anybody?) and it would be nice to have some rudimentary
>> protection built in, if only so that the plugin community can expand
>> upon it. Maybe something to think about for CS:GO and HL3DM? ;)
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 3:18 PM, Connor M. 
>> wrote:
>> > Just hope that they don't go deep into illegal territory and (D)DoS your
>> > servers. If they happen to do so, get a hold of your host/ISP (if you're
>> > running a server that you built/bought and are not using a host) and
>> > explain
>> > what happened as some programs that do such things can produce EXTREME
>> > amounts of bandwidth which can net you with a $15K bill (like someone on
>> > Facepunch experienced, didn't see the thread myself because there's too
>> > much
>> > traffic all the time). Then, look up the IP so that you can get a hold
>> > of
>> > local authorities and their ISP and tell them that they're doing illegal
>> > things. Hope for the best, and rest feeling good that you got rid of
>> > another
>> > skid.
>>
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> please visit:
>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> please visit:
>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>>
>
>
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Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

[Lance Waidzunas]

Sorry to chime in late, and if this has already been brought up, I
apologize...

But is there anyway Valve could implement a minimum time between name
changes?  I could care less about the hackers and what not, but it's kind
of a pain in the butt when you're trying to ban someone quickly in server
and their name keeps changing.  My admins and myself are usually playing
when these idiots drop by the eXtv servers and it'd be great if there was
even like 5-10 second minimum between name changes so we have a moment to
pop a ban in and carry on w/ the game.

On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 10:57 AM, Mart-Jan Reeuwijk wrote:

> Well, here you go:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mD7Fi7xC-gg
> They dont even care bout VAC anymore, for that takes couple weeks, couple
> weeks they can cheat around, and then take a new one.
>
> And I think its more appropriate to fork the topic with its own thread
> about DDOS attacks etc.
>
>   --
> *From:* Chad Hedstrom 
> *To:* Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list <
> hlds@list.valvesoftware.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, 2 February 2012, 0:13
>
> *Subject:* Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters
>
> Note to gameserver coders: it would be great to have some sort of
> rudimentary DDoS protection, i.e. gameserver level firewall that says
> "ignore packets from IPs X, Y, Z.
>
> I've been dealing with a very persistent DDoS attack on my BF3 servers
> recently (he has it set on a nightly timer!) and we almost had to
> switch to a virtual managed server to take advantage of Windows
> Server's more advanced firewall options - at $180 a month. A huge
> shout out to John at NFO for helping me with this. The DDoS attacks
> wouldn't crash the server, but it would cause the server to drop all
> the players.
>
> Long story short, DDoS tools are becoming more of a problem and easier
> to find (LOIC anybody?) and it would be nice to have some rudimentary
> protection built in, if only so that the plugin community can expand
> upon it. Maybe something to think about for CS:GO and HL3DM? ;)
>
> On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 3:18 PM, Connor M. 
> wrote:
> > Just hope that they don't go deep into illegal territory and (D)DoS your
> > servers. If they happen to do so, get a hold of your host/ISP (if you're
> > running a server that you built/bought and are not using a host) and
> explain
> > what happened as some programs that do such things can produce EXTREME
> > amounts of bandwidth which can net you with a $15K bill (like someone on
> > Facepunch experienced, didn't see the thread myself because there's too
> much
> > traffic all the time). Then, look up the IP so that you can get a hold of
> > local authorities and their ISP and tell them that they're doing illegal
> > things. Hope for the best, and rest feeling good that you got rid of
> another
> > skid.
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>
>
>
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> please visit:
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Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

[Mart-Jan Reeuwijk]

Well, here you go:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mD7Fi7xC-gg

They dont even care bout VAC anymore, for that takes couple weeks, couple weeks 
they can cheat around, and then take a new one.


And I think its more appropriate to fork the topic with its own thread about 
DDOS attacks etc. 




>
> From: Chad Hedstrom 
>To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list 
> 
>Sent: Thursday, 2 February 2012, 0:13
>Subject: Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters
> 
>Note to gameserver coders: it would be great to have some sort of
>rudimentary DDoS protection, i.e. gameserver level firewall that says
>"ignore packets from IPs X, Y, Z.
>
>I've been dealing with a very persistent DDoS attack on my BF3 servers
>recently (he has it set on a nightly timer!) and we almost had to
>switch to a virtual managed server to take advantage of Windows
>Server's more advanced firewall options - at $180 a month. A huge
>shout out to John at NFO for helping me with this. The DDoS attacks
>wouldn't crash the server, but it would cause the server to drop all
>the players.
>
>Long story short, DDoS tools are becoming more of a problem and easier
>to find (LOIC anybody?) and it would be nice to have some rudimentary
>protection built in, if only so that the plugin community can expand
>upon it. Maybe something to think about for CS:GO and HL3DM? ;)
>
>On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 3:18 PM, Connor M.  wrote:
>> Just hope that they don't go deep into illegal territory and (D)DoS your
>> servers. If they happen to do so, get a hold of your host/ISP (if you're
>> running a server that you built/bought and are not using a host) and explain
>> what happened as some programs that do such things can produce EXTREME
>> amounts of bandwidth which can net you with a $15K bill (like someone on
>> Facepunch experienced, didn't see the thread myself because there's too much
>> traffic all the time). Then, look up the IP so that you can get a hold of
>> local authorities and their ISP and tell them that they're doing illegal
>> things. Hope for the best, and rest feeling good that you got rid of another
>> skid.
>
>___
>To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
>visit:
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>
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Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

[Chad Hedstrom]

Note to gameserver coders: it would be great to have some sort of
rudimentary DDoS protection, i.e. gameserver level firewall that says
"ignore packets from IPs X, Y, Z.

I've been dealing with a very persistent DDoS attack on my BF3 servers
recently (he has it set on a nightly timer!) and we almost had to
switch to a virtual managed server to take advantage of Windows
Server's more advanced firewall options - at $180 a month. A huge
shout out to John at NFO for helping me with this. The DDoS attacks
wouldn't crash the server, but it would cause the server to drop all
the players.

Long story short, DDoS tools are becoming more of a problem and easier
to find (LOIC anybody?) and it would be nice to have some rudimentary
protection built in, if only so that the plugin community can expand
upon it. Maybe something to think about for CS:GO and HL3DM? ;)

On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 3:18 PM, Connor M.  wrote:
> Just hope that they don't go deep into illegal territory and (D)DoS your
> servers. If they happen to do so, get a hold of your host/ISP (if you're
> running a server that you built/bought and are not using a host) and explain
> what happened as some programs that do such things can produce EXTREME
> amounts of bandwidth which can net you with a $15K bill (like someone on
> Facepunch experienced, didn't see the thread myself because there's too much
> traffic all the time). Then, look up the IP so that you can get a hold of
> local authorities and their ISP and tell them that they're doing illegal
> things. Hope for the best, and rest feeling good that you got rid of another
> skid.

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Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

[Frank T. O'Connor]

Because someone capable of writing a cheat has need of source code
 
 



From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com on behalf of AnAkIn .
Sent: Mon 1/30/2012 10:32 AM
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters


Releasing DBlocker source code would be pretty stupid since it would let all 
cheat coders know how their cheats are being detected and they'd quickly get 
around it.


2012/1/30 Emil Larsson 


You should find out pretty fast if they conflict with each other if you 
try (though it does increase the total cpu usage obviously), although 
personally I think it's reduant.

We're using SMAC as that's actively developed (being a fork of KAC as 
far I understand and all?). KAC itself hadn't been updated in awhile and the 
KAC forums seems very stagnated but who knows what pops up in the future. I 
personally find myself a little suspicious of dblock though due to the lack of 
source code available.


On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 3:52 PM, Jeff Sugar  wrote:


Er, the primary reason I asked was to avoid the try and see 
approach, which could lead to a multitude of undesirable and/or unnoticeable 
results :( For example, the server may crash the very next time a hacker enters 
the server, whether that be tomorrow or a month from now. It's also entirely 
possible that, rather than crashing, it could stop either system from properly 
detecting and dealing with a detection. 

There are plenty of others, but those are the first two that 
popped into my head. I'm not saying it shouldn't be tested, but I have a 
feeling there's at least one person out there who has already done so in order 
to save others the trouble of just blindly trying it.



On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 6:38 AM, AnAkIn .  
wrote:


Try it and see. 


2012/1/30 Jeff Sugar 


Is it safe/okay to use dblocker along with 
smac? Or is it like antivirus applications in that having more than one can 
result in undesirable complications?

On Jan 30, 2012 4:13 AM, "Drogen Viech" 
 wrote:


Can both be used together without 
problems? I would disable automatic
banning in one of them of course.

2012/1/30 AnAkIn . 
:
> DBlocker can detect more cheats than 
SMAC. One of the most used public
> cheats is detected by DBlocker.
>
>
> 2012/1/30 Cc2iscooL 

>>
>> I was reading the Kigen forums and a 
lot of people are banned for
>> "sv_consistency" errors, which could 
be as simple as just having a skin on a
>> server that doesn't allow them.
>>
>> Hilarious.
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 11:13 PM, 
Admin  wrote:
>>>
>>> LMFAO Kigen's anticheat is obsolete 
and Kiegen forces you to use his
>>> server
>>> with his conditions. There is no 
leeway or allowances for independent
>>> control over banning and you are 
forced to kigens global banning system.
>>> There is no decent support less 
being dictated too. I highly recommend
>>> that
>>> one avoids this system entirely
>>>
>>> SMAC is far more superior and has 
no restrictions or limitations. It is
>>> constantly updated and when an 
issue is found it is mostly corrected
>>> immediately upon the team reading 
the issues
>>>
  

Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

[Emil Larsson]

t;>>>>> Can both be used together without problems? I would disable
>>>>>>>> automatic
>>>>>>>> banning in one of them of course.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2012/1/30 AnAkIn . :
>>>>>>>> > DBlocker can detect more cheats than SMAC. One of the most used
>>>>>>>> public
>>>>>>>> > cheats is detected by DBlocker.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > 2012/1/30 Cc2iscooL 
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> I was reading the Kigen forums and a lot of people are banned for
>>>>>>>> >> "sv_consistency" errors, which could be as simple as just having
>>>>>>>> a skin on a
>>>>>>>> >> server that doesn't allow them.
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> Hilarious.
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 11:13 PM, Admin <
>>>>>>>> essential...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>> >>> LMFAO Kigen's anticheat is obsolete and Kiegen forces you to
>>>>>>>> use his
>>>>>>>> >>> server
>>>>>>>> >>> with his conditions. There is no leeway or allowances for
>>>>>>>> independent
>>>>>>>> >>> control over banning and you are forced to kigens global
>>>>>>>> banning system.
>>>>>>>> >>> There is no decent support less being dictated too. I highly
>>>>>>>> recommend
>>>>>>>> >>> that
>>>>>>>> >>> one avoids this system entirely
>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>> >>> SMAC is far more superior and has no restrictions or
>>>>>>>> limitations. It is
>>>>>>>> >>> constantly updated and when an issue is found it is mostly
>>>>>>>> corrected
>>>>>>>> >>> immediately upon the team reading the issues
>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>> >>> SMAC can be found at allied modders
>>>>>>>> >>> http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=<http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=156872>
>>>>>>>> 36
>>>>>>>> 384
>>>>>>>> <http://www.indiedb.com/games/noxious>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hey reddit gaming here is a ga<http://www.indiedb.com/games/noxious>
>>>>>>>> 156872 <http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=156872>
>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>> >>> I have tried both cheat systems and found KAC to be lacking and
>>>>>>>> missed 8
>>>>>>>> >>> out
>>>>>>>> >>> of ten simulated cheats. SMAC prevented 10 out of ten and
>>>>>>>> allows you to
>>>>>>>> >>> freely configure its uses without being forced to use a global
>>>>>>>> system.
>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>> >>> -Original Message-
>>>>>>>> >>> From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
>>>>>>>> >>> [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Mike
>>>>>>>> @ BOOM!
>>>>>>>> >>> Sent: Monday, 30 January 2012 12:56 PM
>>>>>>>> >>> To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list'
>>>>>>>> >>> Subject: Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters
>>>>>>>> >>>index <http://www.kigenac.com/index.php>
>>>>>>>> >>> I was like you when it came to dealing with cheaters. I was so
>>>>>>>> sick of
>>>>>>>> >>> them
>>>>>>>> >>> I almost stopped hosting.
>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>> >>> The came SourceBans and Kigen's AC. For th

Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

[AnAkIn .]

forums and a lot of people are banned for
>>>>>>> >> "sv_consistency" errors, which could be as simple as just having
>>>>>>> a skin on a
>>>>>>> >> server that doesn't allow them.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> Hilarious.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 11:13 PM, Admin 
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>> LMFAO Kigen's anticheat is obsolete and Kiegen forces you to use
>>>>>>> his
>>>>>>> >>> server
>>>>>>> >>> with his conditions. There is no leeway or allowances for
>>>>>>> independent
>>>>>>> >>> control over banning and you are forced to kigens global banning
>>>>>>> system.
>>>>>>> >>> There is no decent support less being dictated too. I highly
>>>>>>> recommend
>>>>>>> >>> that
>>>>>>> >>> one avoids this system entirely
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>> SMAC is far more superior and has no restrictions or
>>>>>>> limitations. It is
>>>>>>> >>> constantly updated and when an issue is found it is mostly
>>>>>>> corrected
>>>>>>> >>> immediately upon the team reading the issues
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>> SMAC can be found at allied modders
>>>>>>> >>> http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=<http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=156872>
>>>>>>> 36
>>>>>>> 384
>>>>>>> <http://www.indiedb.com/games/noxious>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hey reddit gaming here is a ga<http://www.indiedb.com/games/noxious>
>>>>>>> 156872 <http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=156872>
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>> I have tried both cheat systems and found KAC to be lacking and
>>>>>>> missed 8
>>>>>>> >>> out
>>>>>>> >>> of ten simulated cheats. SMAC prevented 10 out of ten and allows
>>>>>>> you to
>>>>>>> >>> freely configure its uses without being forced to use a global
>>>>>>> system.
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>> -Original Message-
>>>>>>> >>> From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
>>>>>>> >>> [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Mike
>>>>>>> @ BOOM!
>>>>>>> >>> Sent: Monday, 30 January 2012 12:56 PM
>>>>>>> >>> To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list'
>>>>>>> >>> Subject: Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters
>>>>>>> >>>index <http://www.kigenac.com/index.php>
>>>>>>> >>> I was like you when it came to dealing with cheaters. I was so
>>>>>>> sick of
>>>>>>> >>> them
>>>>>>> >>> I almost stopped hosting.
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>> The came SourceBans and Kigen's AC. For the past 2+ years we
>>>>>>> have used
>>>>>>> >>> SourceBans: www.sourcebans.net to handle our Admin management
>>>>>>> and bans
>>>>>>> >>> list
>>>>>>> >>> on a global community level. Banned in one server means banned
>>>>>>> in all our
>>>>>>> >>> servers when using SourceBans. We also use the Steambans SBSRC
>>>>>>> Plugin at:
>>>>>>> >>> www.steambans.com, which is another global ban list with 1000's
>>>>>>> of banned
>>>>>>> >>> cheater SteamIDs in it. Finally and most importantly, there are
>>>>>>> two cheat
>>>>>>> >>> detection plugins that block and ban a ton of cheaters for us.
>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>> >>> or

Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

[Emil Larsson]

>> >>> server
>>>>>> >>> with his conditions. There is no leeway or allowances for
>>>>>> independent
>>>>>> >>> control over banning and you are forced to kigens global banning
>>>>>> system.
>>>>>> >>> There is no decent support less being dictated too. I highly
>>>>>> recommend
>>>>>> >>> that
>>>>>> >>> one avoids this system entirely
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> SMAC is far more superior and has no restrictions or limitations.
>>>>>> It is
>>>>>> >>> constantly updated and when an issue is found it is mostly
>>>>>> corrected
>>>>>> >>> immediately upon the team reading the issues
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> SMAC can be found at allied modders
>>>>>> >>> http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=<http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=156872>
>>>>>> 36
>>>>>> 384
>>>>>> <http://www.indiedb.com/games/noxious>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey reddit gaming here is a ga <http://www.indiedb.com/games/noxious>
>>>>>> 156872 <http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=156872>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> I have tried both cheat systems and found KAC to be lacking and
>>>>>> missed 8
>>>>>> >>> out
>>>>>> >>> of ten simulated cheats. SMAC prevented 10 out of ten and allows
>>>>>> you to
>>>>>> >>> freely configure its uses without being forced to use a global
>>>>>> system.
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> -Original Message-
>>>>>> >>> From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
>>>>>> >>> [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Mike @
>>>>>> BOOM!
>>>>>> >>> Sent: Monday, 30 January 2012 12:56 PM
>>>>>> >>> To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list'
>>>>>> >>> Subject: Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters
>>>>>> >>>index <http://www.kigenac.com/index.php>
>>>>>> >>> I was like you when it came to dealing with cheaters. I was so
>>>>>> sick of
>>>>>> >>> them
>>>>>> >>> I almost stopped hosting.
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> The came SourceBans and Kigen's AC. For the past 2+ years we have
>>>>>> used
>>>>>> >>> SourceBans: www.sourcebans.net to handle our Admin management
>>>>>> and bans
>>>>>> >>> list
>>>>>> >>> on a global community level. Banned in one server means banned in
>>>>>> all our
>>>>>> >>> servers when using SourceBans. We also use the Steambans SBSRC
>>>>>> Plugin at:
>>>>>> >>> www.steambans.com, which is another global ban list with 1000's
>>>>>> of banned
>>>>>> >>> cheater SteamIDs in it. Finally and most importantly, there are
>>>>>> two cheat
>>>>>> >>> detection plugins that block and ban a ton of cheaters for us. The
>>>>>> >>> original
>>>>>> >>> Kigen's Anticheat: http://www.kigenac.com/ SourceMod plugin
>>>>>> >>> (wonderful!!!)
>>>>>> >>> and the newer SourceMod Anticheat (SMAC), spun off of Kigen's
>>>>>> platform.
>>>>>> >>> Both
>>>>>> >>> Kigen's and SMAC integrate seamlessly with Sourcebans to perma-ban
>>>>>> >>> suspect
>>>>>> >>> cheaters without an Admin being in the server. I can't say enough
>>>>>> about
>>>>>> >>> Kigen and his wonderful work. It really has saved our asses and
>>>>>> it's very
>>>>>> >>> cool to see players being banned when they cheat when Admins are
>>>>>> in the
>>>>>> >>> server. It's like having an Admin who is spectating every play

Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

[Admin]

Exactly. Its worse than that.

 

As for prior comments. I am probably more informed on the situation than
most, at least no less that up to date, but there's a reason for that. 

I stand by my prior comments and findings (Mike) SMAC does not force one to
use the global database and would most probably proffer not to have it
included but as an option to those who gave up on KAC and are happy to rely
on a Global system that is flawed, the SMAC developers offered it in as an
option, disabled by default.

 

Emil is correct. The KAC website is hardly monitored and not at all in
favour of opinions or input from outside entities especially if critical.
Users have been witnessed to be openly punished.

SMAC is CPU intense mainly due to the Wallhack module but this has been
improved and continues to be improved on a regular basis. 

 

I have known KAC and SMAC to be used together but this would seem pointless
as SMAC does whatever KAC does but efficiently faster and with more positive
results. I am not bias for any other reason less the fact I have thoroughly
tested and compared both anticheat modules, in conclusion my findings state
to me that KAC doesn't work and SMAC does. 

 

From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
[mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Cc2iscooL
Sent: Monday, 30 January 2012 3:04 PM
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

 

I was reading the Kigen forums and a lot of people are banned for
"sv_consistency" errors, which could be as simple as just having a skin on a
server that doesn't allow them.

Hilarious.

On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 11:13 PM, Admin  wrote:

LMFAO Kigen's anticheat is obsolete and Kiegen forces you to use his server
with his conditions. There is no leeway or allowances for independent
control over banning and you are forced to kigens global banning system.
There is no decent support less being dictated too. I highly recommend that
one avoids this system entirely

SMAC is far more superior and has no restrictions or limitations. It is
constantly updated and when an issue is found it is mostly corrected
immediately upon the team reading the issues

SMAC can be found at allied modders
http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=156872

I have tried both cheat systems and found KAC to be lacking and missed 8 out
of ten simulated cheats. SMAC prevented 10 out of ten and allows you to
freely configure its uses without being forced to use a global system.


-Original Message-
From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
[mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Mike @ BOOM!
Sent: Monday, 30 January 2012 12:56 PM
To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list'
Subject: Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

I was like you when it came to dealing with cheaters. I was so sick of them
I almost stopped hosting.

The came SourceBans and Kigen's AC. For the past 2+ years we have used
SourceBans: www.sourcebans.net to handle our Admin management and bans list
on a global community level. Banned in one server means banned in all our
servers when using SourceBans. We also use the Steambans SBSRC Plugin at:
www.steambans.com, which is another global ban list with 1000's of banned
cheater SteamIDs in it. Finally and most importantly, there are two cheat
detection plugins that block and ban a ton of cheaters for us. The original
Kigen's Anticheat: http://www.kigenac.com/ SourceMod plugin (wonderful!!!)
and the newer SourceMod Anticheat (SMAC), spun off of Kigen's platform. Both
Kigen's and SMAC integrate seamlessly with Sourcebans to perma-ban suspect
cheaters without an Admin being in the server. I can't say enough about
Kigen and his wonderful work. It really has saved our asses and it's very
cool to see players being banned when they cheat when Admins are in the
server. It's like having an Admin who is spectating every player on every
server 24/7!

By running a global ban management system like SourceBans and having
real-time cheat detection of the likes of Kigen's AC or SMAC, we have
virtually eliminated the need for Admins most of the time. Sure and
occasional player is missed when using some cheat we can't T detect, but
this is so rare we don't worry that much about it. You can even download the
banlists from other communities who make them available on their Sourcebans
site so you don't have to start from scratch.

Check out the links and let me know if you have any questions.
Mike

-Original Message-
From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
[mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Rob Liu
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 5:45 PM
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

Price of the game going free to play.  Servers get more traffic, but no
other way to deal with persistent cheaters 

Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

[Jeff Sugar]

Yeah, SMAC forked off from KAC when, to make a long story short and simple,
Kigen opted to stop working on KAC due to a scuffle between him and some of
the SM staff. After development on SMAC started up, he changed his
mind<http://www.kigenac.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=1134>,
but it was too little, too late, as most people had swapped over to SMAC at
that point. I assume that is the reason for it not being updated since
November.

Also, I believe the thinking behind dblocker being closed source is to that
hackers can't "work around" some of the detections by looking at how it's
written. I don't know if that actually helps or not, but that was the
reason listed the last time the topic came up. Unfortunately, the only real
way to find out the answer would be to release the source code :v

On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 7:24 AM, Emil Larsson  wrote:

> You should find out pretty fast if they conflict with each other if you
> try (though it does increase the total cpu usage obviously), although
> personally I think it's reduant.
>
> We're using SMAC as that's actively developed (being a fork of KAC as far
> I understand and all?). KAC itself hadn't been updated in awhile and the
> KAC forums seems very stagnated but who knows what pops up in the future. I
> personally find myself a little suspicious of dblock though due to the lack
> of source code available.
>
> On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 3:52 PM, Jeff Sugar  wrote:
>
>> Er, the primary reason I asked was to avoid the try and see approach,
>> which could lead to a multitude of undesirable and/or unnoticeable results
>> :( For example, the server may crash the very next time a hacker enters the
>> server, whether that be tomorrow or a month from now. It's also entirely
>> possible that, rather than crashing, it could stop either system from
>> properly detecting and dealing with a detection.
>>
>> There are plenty of others, but those are the first two that popped into
>> my head. I'm not saying it shouldn't be tested, but I have a feeling
>> there's at least one person out there who has already done so in order to
>> save others the trouble of just blindly trying it.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 6:38 AM, AnAkIn .  wrote:
>>
>>> Try it and see.
>>>
>>>
>>> 2012/1/30 Jeff Sugar 
>>>
>>>>  Is it safe/okay to use dblocker along with smac? Or is it like
>>>> antivirus applications in that having more than one can result in
>>>> undesirable complications?
>>>> On Jan 30, 2012 4:13 AM, "Drogen Viech" 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Can both be used together without problems? I would disable automatic
>>>>> banning in one of them of course.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2012/1/30 AnAkIn . :
>>>>> > DBlocker can detect more cheats than SMAC. One of the most used
>>>>> public
>>>>> > cheats is detected by DBlocker.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > 2012/1/30 Cc2iscooL 
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> I was reading the Kigen forums and a lot of people are banned for
>>>>> >> "sv_consistency" errors, which could be as simple as just having a
>>>>> skin on a
>>>>> >> server that doesn't allow them.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Hilarious.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 11:13 PM, Admin 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> LMFAO Kigen's anticheat is obsolete and Kiegen forces you to use
>>>>> his
>>>>> >>> server
>>>>> >>> with his conditions. There is no leeway or allowances for
>>>>> independent
>>>>> >>> control over banning and you are forced to kigens global banning
>>>>> system.
>>>>> >>> There is no decent support less being dictated too. I highly
>>>>> recommend
>>>>> >>> that
>>>>> >>> one avoids this system entirely
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> SMAC is far more superior and has no restrictions or limitations.
>>>>> It is
>>>>> >>> constantly updated and when an issue is found it is mostly
>>>>> corrected
>>>>> >>> immediately upon the team reading the issues
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>&

Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

[AnAkIn .]

Releasing DBlocker source code would be pretty stupid since it would let
all cheat coders know how their cheats are being detected and they'd
quickly get around it.

2012/1/30 Emil Larsson 

> You should find out pretty fast if they conflict with each other if you
> try (though it does increase the total cpu usage obviously), although
> personally I think it's reduant.
>
> We're using SMAC as that's actively developed (being a fork of KAC as far
> I understand and all?). KAC itself hadn't been updated in awhile and the
> KAC forums seems very stagnated but who knows what pops up in the future. I
> personally find myself a little suspicious of dblock though due to the lack
> of source code available.
>
> On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 3:52 PM, Jeff Sugar  wrote:
>
>> Er, the primary reason I asked was to avoid the try and see approach,
>> which could lead to a multitude of undesirable and/or unnoticeable results
>> :( For example, the server may crash the very next time a hacker enters the
>> server, whether that be tomorrow or a month from now. It's also entirely
>> possible that, rather than crashing, it could stop either system from
>> properly detecting and dealing with a detection.
>>
>> There are plenty of others, but those are the first two that popped into
>> my head. I'm not saying it shouldn't be tested, but I have a feeling
>> there's at least one person out there who has already done so in order to
>> save others the trouble of just blindly trying it.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 6:38 AM, AnAkIn .  wrote:
>>
>>> Try it and see.
>>>
>>>
>>> 2012/1/30 Jeff Sugar 
>>>
>>>> Is it safe/okay to use dblocker along with smac? Or is it like
>>>> antivirus applications in that having more than one can result in
>>>> undesirable complications?
>>>> On Jan 30, 2012 4:13 AM, "Drogen Viech" 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Can both be used together without problems? I would disable automatic
>>>>> banning in one of them of course.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2012/1/30 AnAkIn . :
>>>>> > DBlocker can detect more cheats than SMAC. One of the most used
>>>>> public
>>>>> > cheats is detected by DBlocker.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > 2012/1/30 Cc2iscooL 
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> I was reading the Kigen forums and a lot of people are banned for
>>>>> >> "sv_consistency" errors, which could be as simple as just having a
>>>>> skin on a
>>>>> >> server that doesn't allow them.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Hilarious.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 11:13 PM, Admin 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> LMFAO Kigen's anticheat is obsolete and Kiegen forces you to use
>>>>> his
>>>>> >>> server
>>>>> >>> with his conditions. There is no leeway or allowances for
>>>>> independent
>>>>> >>> control over banning and you are forced to kigens global banning
>>>>> system.
>>>>> >>> There is no decent support less being dictated too. I highly
>>>>> recommend
>>>>> >>> that
>>>>> >>> one avoids this system entirely
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> SMAC is far more superior and has no restrictions or limitations.
>>>>> It is
>>>>> >>> constantly updated and when an issue is found it is mostly
>>>>> corrected
>>>>> >>> immediately upon the team reading the issues
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> SMAC can be found at allied modders
>>>>> >>> http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=<http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=156872>
>>>>> 36
>>>>> 384
>>>>> <http://www.indiedb.com/games/noxious>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hey reddit gaming here is a ga <http://www.indiedb.com/games/noxious>
>>>>> 156872 <http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=156872>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> I have tried both cheat systems and found KAC to be lacking and
>>>>> missed 8
>>>>> >>

Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

[Emil Larsson]

You should find out pretty fast if they conflict with each other if you try
(though it does increase the total cpu usage obviously), although
personally I think it's reduant.

We're using SMAC as that's actively developed (being a fork of KAC as far I
understand and all?). KAC itself hadn't been updated in awhile and the KAC
forums seems very stagnated but who knows what pops up in the future. I
personally find myself a little suspicious of dblock though due to the lack
of source code available.

On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 3:52 PM, Jeff Sugar  wrote:

> Er, the primary reason I asked was to avoid the try and see approach,
> which could lead to a multitude of undesirable and/or unnoticeable results
> :( For example, the server may crash the very next time a hacker enters the
> server, whether that be tomorrow or a month from now. It's also entirely
> possible that, rather than crashing, it could stop either system from
> properly detecting and dealing with a detection.
>
> There are plenty of others, but those are the first two that popped into
> my head. I'm not saying it shouldn't be tested, but I have a feeling
> there's at least one person out there who has already done so in order to
> save others the trouble of just blindly trying it.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 6:38 AM, AnAkIn .  wrote:
>
>> Try it and see.
>>
>>
>> 2012/1/30 Jeff Sugar 
>>
>>> Is it safe/okay to use dblocker along with smac? Or is it like antivirus
>>> applications in that having more than one can result in undesirable
>>> complications?
>>> On Jan 30, 2012 4:13 AM, "Drogen Viech" 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Can both be used together without problems? I would disable automatic
>>>> banning in one of them of course.
>>>>
>>>> 2012/1/30 AnAkIn . :
>>>> > DBlocker can detect more cheats than SMAC. One of the most used public
>>>> > cheats is detected by DBlocker.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > 2012/1/30 Cc2iscooL 
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I was reading the Kigen forums and a lot of people are banned for
>>>> >> "sv_consistency" errors, which could be as simple as just having a
>>>> skin on a
>>>> >> server that doesn't allow them.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Hilarious.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 11:13 PM, Admin 
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> LMFAO Kigen's anticheat is obsolete and Kiegen forces you to use his
>>>> >>> server
>>>> >>> with his conditions. There is no leeway or allowances for
>>>> independent
>>>> >>> control over banning and you are forced to kigens global banning
>>>> system.
>>>> >>> There is no decent support less being dictated too. I highly
>>>> recommend
>>>> >>> that
>>>> >>> one avoids this system entirely
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> SMAC is far more superior and has no restrictions or limitations.
>>>> It is
>>>> >>> constantly updated and when an issue is found it is mostly corrected
>>>> >>> immediately upon the team reading the issues
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> SMAC can be found at allied modders
>>>> >>> http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=<http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=156872>
>>>> 36
>>>> 384
>>>> <http://www.indiedb.com/games/noxious>
>>>>
>>>> Hey reddit gaming here is a ga <http://www.indiedb.com/games/noxious>
>>>> 156872 <http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=156872>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> I have tried both cheat systems and found KAC to be lacking and
>>>> missed 8
>>>> >>> out
>>>> >>> of ten simulated cheats. SMAC prevented 10 out of ten and allows
>>>> you to
>>>> >>> freely configure its uses without being forced to use a global
>>>> system.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> -Original Message-
>>>> >>> From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
>>>> >>> [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Mike @
>>>> BOOM!
>>>> >>> Sent: Monday, 30 January 2012 12:56 PM
>>>> >>>

Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

[Jeff Sugar]

Thanks for the info - do you have any idea offhand which ones would cause
them to intermingle improperly?

For what it's worth, we're running the Aimbot/AutoTrigger/Spinhack
detectors, Client Protection, Command Monitor, ConVar Checker, Eye Angle
Test, and Anti-Speedhack SMAC modules.

I don't expect you to necessarily have answers for any/all of the above,
but I figure it's worth asking, especially for anyone wanting to know in
the future. I did google before bothering to ask, I just came up with no
prefab answers to the question.

On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 6:47 AM, Kyle Sanderson  wrote:

> Depends on which SMAC modules you're planning on/are using.
>
> Should be fine though.
> Kyle.
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 6:29 AM, Jeff Sugar  wrote:
>
>> Is it safe/okay to use dblocker along with smac? Or is it like antivirus
>> applications in that having more than one can result in undesirable
>> complications?
>>  On Jan 30, 2012 4:13 AM, "Drogen Viech" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Can both be used together without problems? I would disable automatic
>>> banning in one of them of course.
>>>
>>> 2012/1/30 AnAkIn . :
>>> > DBlocker can detect more cheats than SMAC. One of the most used public
>>> > cheats is detected by DBlocker.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > 2012/1/30 Cc2iscooL 
>>> >>
>>> >> I was reading the Kigen forums and a lot of people are banned for
>>> >> "sv_consistency" errors, which could be as simple as just having a
>>> skin on a
>>> >> server that doesn't allow them.
>>> >>
>>> >> Hilarious.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 11:13 PM, Admin 
>>> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> LMFAO Kigen's anticheat is obsolete and Kiegen forces you to use his
>>> >>> server
>>> >>> with his conditions. There is no leeway or allowances for independent
>>> >>> control over banning and you are forced to kigens global banning
>>> system.
>>> >>> There is no decent support less being dictated too. I highly
>>> recommend
>>> >>> that
>>> >>> one avoids this system entirely
>>> >>>
>>> >>> SMAC is far more superior and has no restrictions or limitations. It
>>> is
>>> >>> constantly updated and when an issue is found it is mostly corrected
>>> >>> immediately upon the team reading the issues
>>> >>>
>>> >>> SMAC can be found at allied modders
>>> >>> http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=156872
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I have tried both cheat systems and found KAC to be lacking and
>>> missed 8
>>> >>> out
>>> >>> of ten simulated cheats. SMAC prevented 10 out of ten and allows you
>>> to
>>> >>> freely configure its uses without being forced to use a global
>>> system.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> -Original Message-
>>> >>> From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
>>> >>> [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Mike @
>>> BOOM!
>>> >>> Sent: Monday, 30 January 2012 12:56 PM
>>> >>> To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list'
>>> >>> Subject: Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I was like you when it came to dealing with cheaters. I was so sick
>>> of
>>> >>> them
>>> >>> I almost stopped hosting.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> The came SourceBans and Kigen's AC. For the past 2+ years we have
>>> used
>>> >>> SourceBans: www.sourcebans.net to handle our Admin management and
>>> bans
>>> >>> list
>>> >>> on a global community level. Banned in one server means banned in
>>> all our
>>> >>> servers when using SourceBans. We also use the Steambans SBSRC
>>> Plugin at:
>>> >>> www.steambans.com, which is another global ban list with 1000's of
>>> banned
>>> >>> cheater SteamIDs in it. Finally and most importantly, there are two
>>> cheat
>>> >>> detection plugins that block and ban a ton of cheaters for us. The
>>> >>> original
>>> >>> Kigen's Anticheat: 

Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

[Jeff Sugar]

Er, the primary reason I asked was to avoid the try and see approach, which
could lead to a multitude of undesirable and/or unnoticeable results :( For
example, the server may crash the very next time a hacker enters the
server, whether that be tomorrow or a month from now. It's also entirely
possible that, rather than crashing, it could stop either system from
properly detecting and dealing with a detection.

There are plenty of others, but those are the first two that popped into my
head. I'm not saying it shouldn't be tested, but I have a feeling there's
at least one person out there who has already done so in order to save
others the trouble of just blindly trying it.


On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 6:38 AM, AnAkIn .  wrote:

> Try it and see.
>
>
> 2012/1/30 Jeff Sugar 
>
>> Is it safe/okay to use dblocker along with smac? Or is it like antivirus
>> applications in that having more than one can result in undesirable
>> complications?
>> On Jan 30, 2012 4:13 AM, "Drogen Viech" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Can both be used together without problems? I would disable automatic
>>> banning in one of them of course.
>>>
>>> 2012/1/30 AnAkIn . :
>>> > DBlocker can detect more cheats than SMAC. One of the most used public
>>> > cheats is detected by DBlocker.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > 2012/1/30 Cc2iscooL 
>>> >>
>>> >> I was reading the Kigen forums and a lot of people are banned for
>>> >> "sv_consistency" errors, which could be as simple as just having a
>>> skin on a
>>> >> server that doesn't allow them.
>>> >>
>>> >> Hilarious.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 11:13 PM, Admin 
>>> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> LMFAO Kigen's anticheat is obsolete and Kiegen forces you to use his
>>> >>> server
>>> >>> with his conditions. There is no leeway or allowances for independent
>>> >>> control over banning and you are forced to kigens global banning
>>> system.
>>> >>> There is no decent support less being dictated too. I highly
>>> recommend
>>> >>> that
>>> >>> one avoids this system entirely
>>> >>>
>>> >>> SMAC is far more superior and has no restrictions or limitations. It
>>> is
>>> >>> constantly updated and when an issue is found it is mostly corrected
>>> >>> immediately upon the team reading the issues
>>> >>>
>>> >>> SMAC can be found at allied modders
>>> >>> http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=156872
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I have tried both cheat systems and found KAC to be lacking and
>>> missed 8
>>> >>> out
>>> >>> of ten simulated cheats. SMAC prevented 10 out of ten and allows you
>>> to
>>> >>> freely configure its uses without being forced to use a global
>>> system.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> -Original Message-
>>> >>> From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
>>> >>> [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Mike @
>>> BOOM!
>>> >>> Sent: Monday, 30 January 2012 12:56 PM
>>> >>> To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list'
>>> >>> Subject: Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I was like you when it came to dealing with cheaters. I was so sick
>>> of
>>> >>> them
>>> >>> I almost stopped hosting.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> The came SourceBans and Kigen's AC. For the past 2+ years we have
>>> used
>>> >>> SourceBans: www.sourcebans.net to handle our Admin management and
>>> bans
>>> >>> list
>>> >>> on a global community level. Banned in one server means banned in
>>> all our
>>> >>> servers when using SourceBans. We also use the Steambans SBSRC
>>> Plugin at:
>>> >>> www.steambans.com, which is another global ban list with 1000's of
>>> banned
>>> >>> cheater SteamIDs in it. Finally and most importantly, there are two
>>> cheat
>>> >>> detection plugins that block and ban a ton of cheaters for us. The
>>> >>> original
>>> >>> Kigen's A

Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

[Kyle Sanderson]

Depends on which SMAC modules you're planning on/are using.

Should be fine though.
Kyle.

On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 6:29 AM, Jeff Sugar  wrote:

> Is it safe/okay to use dblocker along with smac? Or is it like antivirus
> applications in that having more than one can result in undesirable
> complications?
>  On Jan 30, 2012 4:13 AM, "Drogen Viech" 
> wrote:
>
>> Can both be used together without problems? I would disable automatic
>> banning in one of them of course.
>>
>> 2012/1/30 AnAkIn . :
>> > DBlocker can detect more cheats than SMAC. One of the most used public
>> > cheats is detected by DBlocker.
>> >
>> >
>> > 2012/1/30 Cc2iscooL 
>> >>
>> >> I was reading the Kigen forums and a lot of people are banned for
>> >> "sv_consistency" errors, which could be as simple as just having a
>> skin on a
>> >> server that doesn't allow them.
>> >>
>> >> Hilarious.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 11:13 PM, Admin 
>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> LMFAO Kigen's anticheat is obsolete and Kiegen forces you to use his
>> >>> server
>> >>> with his conditions. There is no leeway or allowances for independent
>> >>> control over banning and you are forced to kigens global banning
>> system.
>> >>> There is no decent support less being dictated too. I highly recommend
>> >>> that
>> >>> one avoids this system entirely
>> >>>
>> >>> SMAC is far more superior and has no restrictions or limitations. It
>> is
>> >>> constantly updated and when an issue is found it is mostly corrected
>> >>> immediately upon the team reading the issues
>> >>>
>> >>> SMAC can be found at allied modders
>> >>> http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=156872
>> >>>
>> >>> I have tried both cheat systems and found KAC to be lacking and
>> missed 8
>> >>> out
>> >>> of ten simulated cheats. SMAC prevented 10 out of ten and allows you
>> to
>> >>> freely configure its uses without being forced to use a global system.
>> >>>
>> >>> -Original Message-
>> >>> From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
>> >>> [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Mike @
>> BOOM!
>> >>> Sent: Monday, 30 January 2012 12:56 PM
>> >>> To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list'
>> >>> Subject: Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters
>> >>>
>> >>> I was like you when it came to dealing with cheaters. I was so sick of
>> >>> them
>> >>> I almost stopped hosting.
>> >>>
>> >>> The came SourceBans and Kigen's AC. For the past 2+ years we have used
>> >>> SourceBans: www.sourcebans.net to handle our Admin management and
>> bans
>> >>> list
>> >>> on a global community level. Banned in one server means banned in all
>> our
>> >>> servers when using SourceBans. We also use the Steambans SBSRC Plugin
>> at:
>> >>> www.steambans.com, which is another global ban list with 1000's of
>> banned
>> >>> cheater SteamIDs in it. Finally and most importantly, there are two
>> cheat
>> >>> detection plugins that block and ban a ton of cheaters for us. The
>> >>> original
>> >>> Kigen's Anticheat: http://www.kigenac.com/ SourceMod plugin
>> >>> (wonderful!!!)
>> >>> and the newer SourceMod Anticheat (SMAC), spun off of Kigen's
>> platform.
>> >>> Both
>> >>> Kigen's and SMAC integrate seamlessly with Sourcebans to perma-ban
>> >>> suspect
>> >>> cheaters without an Admin being in the server. I can't say enough
>> about
>> >>> Kigen and his wonderful work. It really has saved our asses and it's
>> very
>> >>> cool to see players being banned when they cheat when Admins are in
>> the
>> >>> server. It's like having an Admin who is spectating every player on
>> every
>> >>> server 24/7!
>> >>>
>> >>> By running a global ban management system like SourceBans and having
>> >>> real-time cheat detection of the likes of Kigen's AC or SMAC, we have
>>

Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

[AnAkIn .]

Try it and see.

2012/1/30 Jeff Sugar 

> Is it safe/okay to use dblocker along with smac? Or is it like antivirus
> applications in that having more than one can result in undesirable
> complications?
> On Jan 30, 2012 4:13 AM, "Drogen Viech" 
> wrote:
>
>> Can both be used together without problems? I would disable automatic
>> banning in one of them of course.
>>
>> 2012/1/30 AnAkIn . :
>> > DBlocker can detect more cheats than SMAC. One of the most used public
>> > cheats is detected by DBlocker.
>> >
>> >
>> > 2012/1/30 Cc2iscooL 
>> >>
>> >> I was reading the Kigen forums and a lot of people are banned for
>> >> "sv_consistency" errors, which could be as simple as just having a
>> skin on a
>> >> server that doesn't allow them.
>> >>
>> >> Hilarious.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 11:13 PM, Admin 
>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> LMFAO Kigen's anticheat is obsolete and Kiegen forces you to use his
>> >>> server
>> >>> with his conditions. There is no leeway or allowances for independent
>> >>> control over banning and you are forced to kigens global banning
>> system.
>> >>> There is no decent support less being dictated too. I highly recommend
>> >>> that
>> >>> one avoids this system entirely
>> >>>
>> >>> SMAC is far more superior and has no restrictions or limitations. It
>> is
>> >>> constantly updated and when an issue is found it is mostly corrected
>> >>> immediately upon the team reading the issues
>> >>>
>> >>> SMAC can be found at allied modders
>> >>> http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=156872
>> >>>
>> >>> I have tried both cheat systems and found KAC to be lacking and
>> missed 8
>> >>> out
>> >>> of ten simulated cheats. SMAC prevented 10 out of ten and allows you
>> to
>> >>> freely configure its uses without being forced to use a global system.
>> >>>
>> >>> -Original Message-
>> >>> From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
>> >>> [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Mike @
>> BOOM!
>> >>> Sent: Monday, 30 January 2012 12:56 PM
>> >>> To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list'
>> >>> Subject: Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters
>> >>>
>> >>> I was like you when it came to dealing with cheaters. I was so sick of
>> >>> them
>> >>> I almost stopped hosting.
>> >>>
>> >>> The came SourceBans and Kigen's AC. For the past 2+ years we have used
>> >>> SourceBans: www.sourcebans.net to handle our Admin management and
>> bans
>> >>> list
>> >>> on a global community level. Banned in one server means banned in all
>> our
>> >>> servers when using SourceBans. We also use the Steambans SBSRC Plugin
>> at:
>> >>> www.steambans.com, which is another global ban list with 1000's of
>> banned
>> >>> cheater SteamIDs in it. Finally and most importantly, there are two
>> cheat
>> >>> detection plugins that block and ban a ton of cheaters for us. The
>> >>> original
>> >>> Kigen's Anticheat: http://www.kigenac.com/ SourceMod plugin
>> >>> (wonderful!!!)
>> >>> and the newer SourceMod Anticheat (SMAC), spun off of Kigen's
>> platform.
>> >>> Both
>> >>> Kigen's and SMAC integrate seamlessly with Sourcebans to perma-ban
>> >>> suspect
>> >>> cheaters without an Admin being in the server. I can't say enough
>> about
>> >>> Kigen and his wonderful work. It really has saved our asses and it's
>> very
>> >>> cool to see players being banned when they cheat when Admins are in
>> the
>> >>> server. It's like having an Admin who is spectating every player on
>> every
>> >>> server 24/7!
>> >>>
>> >>> By running a global ban management system like SourceBans and having
>> >>> real-time cheat detection of the likes of Kigen's AC or SMAC, we have
>> >>> virtually eliminated the need for Admins most of the time. Sure and
>> >>> occasional

Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

[Jeff Sugar]

Is it safe/okay to use dblocker along with smac? Or is it like antivirus
applications in that having more than one can result in undesirable
complications?
On Jan 30, 2012 4:13 AM, "Drogen Viech"  wrote:

> Can both be used together without problems? I would disable automatic
> banning in one of them of course.
>
> 2012/1/30 AnAkIn . :
> > DBlocker can detect more cheats than SMAC. One of the most used public
> > cheats is detected by DBlocker.
> >
> >
> > 2012/1/30 Cc2iscooL 
> >>
> >> I was reading the Kigen forums and a lot of people are banned for
> >> "sv_consistency" errors, which could be as simple as just having a skin
> on a
> >> server that doesn't allow them.
> >>
> >> Hilarious.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 11:13 PM, Admin 
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> LMFAO Kigen's anticheat is obsolete and Kiegen forces you to use his
> >>> server
> >>> with his conditions. There is no leeway or allowances for independent
> >>> control over banning and you are forced to kigens global banning
> system.
> >>> There is no decent support less being dictated too. I highly recommend
> >>> that
> >>> one avoids this system entirely
> >>>
> >>> SMAC is far more superior and has no restrictions or limitations. It is
> >>> constantly updated and when an issue is found it is mostly corrected
> >>> immediately upon the team reading the issues
> >>>
> >>> SMAC can be found at allied modders
> >>> http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=156872
> >>>
> >>> I have tried both cheat systems and found KAC to be lacking and missed
> 8
> >>> out
> >>> of ten simulated cheats. SMAC prevented 10 out of ten and allows you to
> >>> freely configure its uses without being forced to use a global system.
> >>>
> >>> -Original Message-
> >>> From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
> >>> [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Mike @ BOOM!
> >>> Sent: Monday, 30 January 2012 12:56 PM
> >>> To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list'
> >>> Subject: Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters
> >>>
> >>> I was like you when it came to dealing with cheaters. I was so sick of
> >>> them
> >>> I almost stopped hosting.
> >>>
> >>> The came SourceBans and Kigen's AC. For the past 2+ years we have used
> >>> SourceBans: www.sourcebans.net to handle our Admin management and bans
> >>> list
> >>> on a global community level. Banned in one server means banned in all
> our
> >>> servers when using SourceBans. We also use the Steambans SBSRC Plugin
> at:
> >>> www.steambans.com, which is another global ban list with 1000's of
> banned
> >>> cheater SteamIDs in it. Finally and most importantly, there are two
> cheat
> >>> detection plugins that block and ban a ton of cheaters for us. The
> >>> original
> >>> Kigen's Anticheat: http://www.kigenac.com/ SourceMod plugin
> >>> (wonderful!!!)
> >>> and the newer SourceMod Anticheat (SMAC), spun off of Kigen's platform.
> >>> Both
> >>> Kigen's and SMAC integrate seamlessly with Sourcebans to perma-ban
> >>> suspect
> >>> cheaters without an Admin being in the server. I can't say enough about
> >>> Kigen and his wonderful work. It really has saved our asses and it's
> very
> >>> cool to see players being banned when they cheat when Admins are in the
> >>> server. It's like having an Admin who is spectating every player on
> every
> >>> server 24/7!
> >>>
> >>> By running a global ban management system like SourceBans and having
> >>> real-time cheat detection of the likes of Kigen's AC or SMAC, we have
> >>> virtually eliminated the need for Admins most of the time. Sure and
> >>> occasional player is missed when using some cheat we can't T detect,
> but
> >>> this is so rare we don't worry that much about it. You can even
> download
> >>> the
> >>> banlists from other communities who make them available on their
> >>> Sourcebans
> >>> site so you don't have to start from scratch.
> >>>
> >>> Check out the links and let me know if you have any questi

Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

[Drogen Viech]

Can both be used together without problems? I would disable automatic
banning in one of them of course.

2012/1/30 AnAkIn . :
> DBlocker can detect more cheats than SMAC. One of the most used public
> cheats is detected by DBlocker.
>
>
> 2012/1/30 Cc2iscooL 
>>
>> I was reading the Kigen forums and a lot of people are banned for
>> "sv_consistency" errors, which could be as simple as just having a skin on a
>> server that doesn't allow them.
>>
>> Hilarious.
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 11:13 PM, Admin  wrote:
>>>
>>> LMFAO Kigen's anticheat is obsolete and Kiegen forces you to use his
>>> server
>>> with his conditions. There is no leeway or allowances for independent
>>> control over banning and you are forced to kigens global banning system.
>>> There is no decent support less being dictated too. I highly recommend
>>> that
>>> one avoids this system entirely
>>>
>>> SMAC is far more superior and has no restrictions or limitations. It is
>>> constantly updated and when an issue is found it is mostly corrected
>>> immediately upon the team reading the issues
>>>
>>> SMAC can be found at allied modders
>>> http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=156872
>>>
>>> I have tried both cheat systems and found KAC to be lacking and missed 8
>>> out
>>> of ten simulated cheats. SMAC prevented 10 out of ten and allows you to
>>> freely configure its uses without being forced to use a global system.
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
>>> [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Mike @ BOOM!
>>> Sent: Monday, 30 January 2012 12:56 PM
>>> To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list'
>>> Subject: Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters
>>>
>>> I was like you when it came to dealing with cheaters. I was so sick of
>>> them
>>> I almost stopped hosting.
>>>
>>> The came SourceBans and Kigen's AC. For the past 2+ years we have used
>>> SourceBans: www.sourcebans.net to handle our Admin management and bans
>>> list
>>> on a global community level. Banned in one server means banned in all our
>>> servers when using SourceBans. We also use the Steambans SBSRC Plugin at:
>>> www.steambans.com, which is another global ban list with 1000's of banned
>>> cheater SteamIDs in it. Finally and most importantly, there are two cheat
>>> detection plugins that block and ban a ton of cheaters for us. The
>>> original
>>> Kigen's Anticheat: http://www.kigenac.com/ SourceMod plugin
>>> (wonderful!!!)
>>> and the newer SourceMod Anticheat (SMAC), spun off of Kigen's platform.
>>> Both
>>> Kigen's and SMAC integrate seamlessly with Sourcebans to perma-ban
>>> suspect
>>> cheaters without an Admin being in the server. I can't say enough about
>>> Kigen and his wonderful work. It really has saved our asses and it's very
>>> cool to see players being banned when they cheat when Admins are in the
>>> server. It's like having an Admin who is spectating every player on every
>>> server 24/7!
>>>
>>> By running a global ban management system like SourceBans and having
>>> real-time cheat detection of the likes of Kigen's AC or SMAC, we have
>>> virtually eliminated the need for Admins most of the time. Sure and
>>> occasional player is missed when using some cheat we can't T detect, but
>>> this is so rare we don't worry that much about it. You can even download
>>> the
>>> banlists from other communities who make them available on their
>>> Sourcebans
>>> site so you don't have to start from scratch.
>>>
>>> Check out the links and let me know if you have any questions.
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
>>> [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Rob Liu
>>> Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 5:45 PM
>>> To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters
>>>
>>> Price of the game going free to play.  Servers get more traffic, but no
>>> other way to deal with persistent cheaters and griefers.  Ban has lost
>>> its
>>> meaning.  There is nothing we can do as server owners.
>>>
>>> Valv

Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

[AnAkIn .]

DBlocker can detect more cheats than SMAC. One of the most used public
cheats is detected by DBlocker.

2012/1/30 Cc2iscooL 

> I was reading the Kigen forums and a lot of people are banned for
> "sv_consistency" errors, which could be as simple as just having a skin on
> a server that doesn't allow them.
>
> Hilarious.
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 11:13 PM, Admin  wrote:
>
>> LMFAO Kigen's anticheat is obsolete and Kiegen forces you to use his
>> server
>> with his conditions. There is no leeway or allowances for independent
>> control over banning and you are forced to kigens global banning system.
>> There is no decent support less being dictated too. I highly recommend
>> that
>> one avoids this system entirely
>>
>> SMAC is far more superior and has no restrictions or limitations. It is
>> constantly updated and when an issue is found it is mostly corrected
>> immediately upon the team reading the issues
>>
>> SMAC can be found at allied modders
>> http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=156872
>>
>> I have tried both cheat systems and found KAC to be lacking and missed 8
>> out
>> of ten simulated cheats. SMAC prevented 10 out of ten and allows you to
>> freely configure its uses without being forced to use a global system.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
>> [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Mike @ BOOM!
>> Sent: Monday, 30 January 2012 12:56 PM
>> To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list'
>> Subject: Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters
>>
>> I was like you when it came to dealing with cheaters. I was so sick of
>> them
>> I almost stopped hosting.
>>
>> The came SourceBans and Kigen's AC. For the past 2+ years we have used
>> SourceBans: www.sourcebans.net to handle our Admin management and bans
>> list
>> on a global community level. Banned in one server means banned in all our
>> servers when using SourceBans. We also use the Steambans SBSRC Plugin at:
>> www.steambans.com, which is another global ban list with 1000's of banned
>> cheater SteamIDs in it. Finally and most importantly, there are two cheat
>> detection plugins that block and ban a ton of cheaters for us. The
>> original
>> Kigen's Anticheat: http://www.kigenac.com/ SourceMod plugin
>> (wonderful!!!)
>> and the newer SourceMod Anticheat (SMAC), spun off of Kigen's platform.
>> Both
>> Kigen's and SMAC integrate seamlessly with Sourcebans to perma-ban suspect
>> cheaters without an Admin being in the server. I can't say enough about
>> Kigen and his wonderful work. It really has saved our asses and it's very
>> cool to see players being banned when they cheat when Admins are in the
>> server. It's like having an Admin who is spectating every player on every
>> server 24/7!
>>
>> By running a global ban management system like SourceBans and having
>> real-time cheat detection of the likes of Kigen's AC or SMAC, we have
>> virtually eliminated the need for Admins most of the time. Sure and
>> occasional player is missed when using some cheat we can't T detect, but
>> this is so rare we don't worry that much about it. You can even download
>> the
>> banlists from other communities who make them available on their
>> Sourcebans
>> site so you don't have to start from scratch.
>>
>> Check out the links and let me know if you have any questions.
>> Mike
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
>> [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Rob Liu
>> Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 5:45 PM
>> To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters
>>
>> Price of the game going free to play.  Servers get more traffic, but no
>> other way to deal with persistent cheaters and griefers.  Ban has lost its
>> meaning.  There is nothing we can do as server owners.
>>
>> Valve really need to figure something out.
>>
>> On 1/30/12, hlds  wrote:
>> > I had once a problem with a guy that had many F2P accounts and as
>> > provider one of the biggest from my country (dynamic IPs and
>> > impossible to ban), but I was lucky to find out that he also had a web
>> > server hosted on his computer. I did a script to check every 5 minutes
>> > the IP for that site and to update a firewall rule, but usually you
>> > can't do nothing, exc

Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

[Cc2iscooL]

I was reading the Kigen forums and a lot of people are banned for
"sv_consistency" errors, which could be as simple as just having a skin on
a server that doesn't allow them.

Hilarious.

On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 11:13 PM, Admin  wrote:

> LMFAO Kigen's anticheat is obsolete and Kiegen forces you to use his server
> with his conditions. There is no leeway or allowances for independent
> control over banning and you are forced to kigens global banning system.
> There is no decent support less being dictated too. I highly recommend that
> one avoids this system entirely
>
> SMAC is far more superior and has no restrictions or limitations. It is
> constantly updated and when an issue is found it is mostly corrected
> immediately upon the team reading the issues
>
> SMAC can be found at allied modders
> http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=156872
>
> I have tried both cheat systems and found KAC to be lacking and missed 8
> out
> of ten simulated cheats. SMAC prevented 10 out of ten and allows you to
> freely configure its uses without being forced to use a global system.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
> [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Mike @ BOOM!
> Sent: Monday, 30 January 2012 12:56 PM
> To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters
>
> I was like you when it came to dealing with cheaters. I was so sick of them
> I almost stopped hosting.
>
> The came SourceBans and Kigen's AC. For the past 2+ years we have used
> SourceBans: www.sourcebans.net to handle our Admin management and bans
> list
> on a global community level. Banned in one server means banned in all our
> servers when using SourceBans. We also use the Steambans SBSRC Plugin at:
> www.steambans.com, which is another global ban list with 1000's of banned
> cheater SteamIDs in it. Finally and most importantly, there are two cheat
> detection plugins that block and ban a ton of cheaters for us. The original
> Kigen's Anticheat: http://www.kigenac.com/ SourceMod plugin (wonderful!!!)
> and the newer SourceMod Anticheat (SMAC), spun off of Kigen's platform.
> Both
> Kigen's and SMAC integrate seamlessly with Sourcebans to perma-ban suspect
> cheaters without an Admin being in the server. I can't say enough about
> Kigen and his wonderful work. It really has saved our asses and it's very
> cool to see players being banned when they cheat when Admins are in the
> server. It's like having an Admin who is spectating every player on every
> server 24/7!
>
> By running a global ban management system like SourceBans and having
> real-time cheat detection of the likes of Kigen's AC or SMAC, we have
> virtually eliminated the need for Admins most of the time. Sure and
> occasional player is missed when using some cheat we can't T detect, but
> this is so rare we don't worry that much about it. You can even download
> the
> banlists from other communities who make them available on their Sourcebans
> site so you don't have to start from scratch.
>
> Check out the links and let me know if you have any questions.
> Mike
>
> -Original Message-
> From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
> [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Rob Liu
> Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 5:45 PM
> To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
> Subject: Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters
>
> Price of the game going free to play.  Servers get more traffic, but no
> other way to deal with persistent cheaters and griefers.  Ban has lost its
> meaning.  There is nothing we can do as server owners.
>
> Valve really need to figure something out.
>
> On 1/30/12, hlds  wrote:
> > I had once a problem with a guy that had many F2P accounts and as
> > provider one of the biggest from my country (dynamic IPs and
> > impossible to ban), but I was lucky to find out that he also had a web
> > server hosted on his computer. I did a script to check every 5 minutes
> > the IP for that site and to update a firewall rule, but usually you
> > can't do nothing, except to have some nice words for Valve and as many
> admins as possible.
> >
> >
> >
> > I don't understand why this is not a top priority thing for Valve,
> > because a cheater with speedhack can empty a server in few minutes. At
> > least we should have access to some hardware fingerprint or something
> > like
> this.
> >
> >
> >
> > From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
> > [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Beh

Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

[Mike @ BOOM!]

Dear Admin,

I certainly don't want to get into a debate about Kigen's AC here, but I
feel compelled to say you are absolutely wrong with your statement about
Kigen "forcing" you to use anything you don't want to. Kigen's AC uses a
SourceMod config file just like SMAC does that allows you to configure his
system to your needs. There is no "forcing" anything on anyone. Most of his
settings are configurable. If they aren't in the config file, they shouldn't
be messed with.

As for using his "server", if you mean using his KAC global ban list, this
is a global level cheater DB he provides for free to admins who use his
system and most server admins consider this a very good thing. It's a list
of all cheaters that have been banned using his AC. It's so powerful that
SMAC uses Kigen's Global DB because they feel it's important enough to
incorporate into their system. I think you're misinformed on this.

Either way, my point is if you pick SMAC or Kigen's system, your cheater
problems will be greatly reduced, this I assure you.
Mike

-Original Message-
From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
[mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Admin
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 8:13 PM
To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list'
Subject: Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

LMFAO Kigen's anticheat is obsolete and Kiegen forces you to use his server
with his conditions. There is no leeway or allowances for independent
control over banning and you are forced to kigens global banning system.
There is no decent support less being dictated too. I highly recommend that
one avoids this system entirely

SMAC is far more superior and has no restrictions or limitations. It is
constantly updated and when an issue is found it is mostly corrected
immediately upon the team reading the issues

SMAC can be found at allied modders
http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=156872

I have tried both cheat systems and found KAC to be lacking and missed 8 out
of ten simulated cheats. SMAC prevented 10 out of ten and allows you to
freely configure its uses without being forced to use a global system.

-Original Message-
From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
[mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Mike @ BOOM!
Sent: Monday, 30 January 2012 12:56 PM
To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list'
Subject: Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

I was like you when it came to dealing with cheaters. I was so sick of them
I almost stopped hosting. 

The came SourceBans and Kigen's AC. For the past 2+ years we have used
SourceBans: www.sourcebans.net to handle our Admin management and bans list
on a global community level. Banned in one server means banned in all our
servers when using SourceBans. We also use the Steambans SBSRC Plugin at:
www.steambans.com, which is another global ban list with 1000's of banned
cheater SteamIDs in it. Finally and most importantly, there are two cheat
detection plugins that block and ban a ton of cheaters for us. The original
Kigen's Anticheat: http://www.kigenac.com/ SourceMod plugin (wonderful!!!)
and the newer SourceMod Anticheat (SMAC), spun off of Kigen's platform. Both
Kigen's and SMAC integrate seamlessly with Sourcebans to perma-ban suspect
cheaters without an Admin being in the server. I can't say enough about
Kigen and his wonderful work. It really has saved our asses and it's very
cool to see players being banned when they cheat when Admins are in the
server. It's like having an Admin who is spectating every player on every
server 24/7!

By running a global ban management system like SourceBans and having
real-time cheat detection of the likes of Kigen's AC or SMAC, we have
virtually eliminated the need for Admins most of the time. Sure and
occasional player is missed when using some cheat we can't T detect, but
this is so rare we don't worry that much about it. You can even download the
banlists from other communities who make them available on their Sourcebans
site so you don't have to start from scratch.

Check out the links and let me know if you have any questions.
Mike

-Original Message-
From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
[mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Rob Liu
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 5:45 PM
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

Price of the game going free to play.  Servers get more traffic, but no
other way to deal with persistent cheaters and griefers.  Ban has lost its
meaning.  There is nothing we can do as server owners.

Valve really need to figure something out.

On 1/30/12, hlds  wrote:
> I had once a problem with a guy that had many F2P accounts and as 
> provider one of the biggest from my country (dynamic IPs a

Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

[Ryan Stecker]

Be sure to check out DBlocker as well.

http://dblocker.didrole.com/

Can't vouch for how well it work, but it has some smart minds behind it.

On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 10:13 PM, Admin  wrote:

> LMFAO Kigen's anticheat is obsolete and Kiegen forces you to use his server
> with his conditions. There is no leeway or allowances for independent
> control over banning and you are forced to kigens global banning system.
> There is no decent support less being dictated too. I highly recommend that
> one avoids this system entirely
>
> SMAC is far more superior and has no restrictions or limitations. It is
> constantly updated and when an issue is found it is mostly corrected
> immediately upon the team reading the issues
>
> SMAC can be found at allied modders
> http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=156872
>
> I have tried both cheat systems and found KAC to be lacking and missed 8
> out
> of ten simulated cheats. SMAC prevented 10 out of ten and allows you to
> freely configure its uses without being forced to use a global system.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
> [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Mike @ BOOM!
> Sent: Monday, 30 January 2012 12:56 PM
> To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters
>
> I was like you when it came to dealing with cheaters. I was so sick of them
> I almost stopped hosting.
>
> The came SourceBans and Kigen's AC. For the past 2+ years we have used
> SourceBans: www.sourcebans.net to handle our Admin management and bans
> list
> on a global community level. Banned in one server means banned in all our
> servers when using SourceBans. We also use the Steambans SBSRC Plugin at:
> www.steambans.com, which is another global ban list with 1000's of banned
> cheater SteamIDs in it. Finally and most importantly, there are two cheat
> detection plugins that block and ban a ton of cheaters for us. The original
> Kigen's Anticheat: http://www.kigenac.com/ SourceMod plugin (wonderful!!!)
> and the newer SourceMod Anticheat (SMAC), spun off of Kigen's platform.
> Both
> Kigen's and SMAC integrate seamlessly with Sourcebans to perma-ban suspect
> cheaters without an Admin being in the server. I can't say enough about
> Kigen and his wonderful work. It really has saved our asses and it's very
> cool to see players being banned when they cheat when Admins are in the
> server. It's like having an Admin who is spectating every player on every
> server 24/7!
>
> By running a global ban management system like SourceBans and having
> real-time cheat detection of the likes of Kigen's AC or SMAC, we have
> virtually eliminated the need for Admins most of the time. Sure and
> occasional player is missed when using some cheat we can't T detect, but
> this is so rare we don't worry that much about it. You can even download
> the
> banlists from other communities who make them available on their Sourcebans
> site so you don't have to start from scratch.
>
> Check out the links and let me know if you have any questions.
> Mike
>
> -Original Message-
> From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
> [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Rob Liu
> Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 5:45 PM
> To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
> Subject: Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters
>
> Price of the game going free to play.  Servers get more traffic, but no
> other way to deal with persistent cheaters and griefers.  Ban has lost its
> meaning.  There is nothing we can do as server owners.
>
> Valve really need to figure something out.
>
> On 1/30/12, hlds  wrote:
> > I had once a problem with a guy that had many F2P accounts and as
> > provider one of the biggest from my country (dynamic IPs and
> > impossible to ban), but I was lucky to find out that he also had a web
> > server hosted on his computer. I did a script to check every 5 minutes
> > the IP for that site and to update a firewall rule, but usually you
> > can't do nothing, except to have some nice words for Valve and as many
> admins as possible.
> >
> >
> >
> > I don't understand why this is not a top priority thing for Valve,
> > because a cheater with speedhack can empty a server in few minutes. At
> > least we should have access to some hardware fingerprint or something
> > like
> this.
> >
> >
> >
> > From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
> > [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Alexander Z
> > Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 10:42

Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

[Admin]

LMFAO Kigen's anticheat is obsolete and Kiegen forces you to use his server
with his conditions. There is no leeway or allowances for independent
control over banning and you are forced to kigens global banning system.
There is no decent support less being dictated too. I highly recommend that
one avoids this system entirely

SMAC is far more superior and has no restrictions or limitations. It is
constantly updated and when an issue is found it is mostly corrected
immediately upon the team reading the issues

SMAC can be found at allied modders
http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=156872

I have tried both cheat systems and found KAC to be lacking and missed 8 out
of ten simulated cheats. SMAC prevented 10 out of ten and allows you to
freely configure its uses without being forced to use a global system.

-Original Message-
From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
[mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Mike @ BOOM!
Sent: Monday, 30 January 2012 12:56 PM
To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list'
Subject: Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

I was like you when it came to dealing with cheaters. I was so sick of them
I almost stopped hosting. 

The came SourceBans and Kigen's AC. For the past 2+ years we have used
SourceBans: www.sourcebans.net to handle our Admin management and bans list
on a global community level. Banned in one server means banned in all our
servers when using SourceBans. We also use the Steambans SBSRC Plugin at:
www.steambans.com, which is another global ban list with 1000's of banned
cheater SteamIDs in it. Finally and most importantly, there are two cheat
detection plugins that block and ban a ton of cheaters for us. The original
Kigen's Anticheat: http://www.kigenac.com/ SourceMod plugin (wonderful!!!)
and the newer SourceMod Anticheat (SMAC), spun off of Kigen's platform. Both
Kigen's and SMAC integrate seamlessly with Sourcebans to perma-ban suspect
cheaters without an Admin being in the server. I can't say enough about
Kigen and his wonderful work. It really has saved our asses and it's very
cool to see players being banned when they cheat when Admins are in the
server. It's like having an Admin who is spectating every player on every
server 24/7!

By running a global ban management system like SourceBans and having
real-time cheat detection of the likes of Kigen's AC or SMAC, we have
virtually eliminated the need for Admins most of the time. Sure and
occasional player is missed when using some cheat we can't T detect, but
this is so rare we don't worry that much about it. You can even download the
banlists from other communities who make them available on their Sourcebans
site so you don't have to start from scratch.

Check out the links and let me know if you have any questions.
Mike

-Original Message-
From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
[mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Rob Liu
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 5:45 PM
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

Price of the game going free to play.  Servers get more traffic, but no
other way to deal with persistent cheaters and griefers.  Ban has lost its
meaning.  There is nothing we can do as server owners.

Valve really need to figure something out.

On 1/30/12, hlds  wrote:
> I had once a problem with a guy that had many F2P accounts and as 
> provider one of the biggest from my country (dynamic IPs and 
> impossible to ban), but I was lucky to find out that he also had a web 
> server hosted on his computer. I did a script to check every 5 minutes 
> the IP for that site and to update a firewall rule, but usually you 
> can't do nothing, except to have some nice words for Valve and as many
admins as possible.
>
>
>
> I don't understand why this is not a top priority thing for Valve, 
> because a cheater with speedhack can empty a server in few minutes. At 
> least we should have access to some hardware fingerprint or something 
> like
this.
>
>
>
> From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
> [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Alexander Z
> Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 10:42 PM
> To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
> Subject: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters
>
>
>
> The kind with dynamic IPs, lots of F2P accounts and time to spare.
>
> Any tips on dealing with them?
>
>

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Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

[Rob Liu]

SourceBans or not.  The problem we're facing is hackers and griefers
have the ability to crate unlimited number of free accounts.

I have seen a hackers with 30 free-to-play accounts.  Doesn't even
bother to hide it, all of them just sitting in his friendlist nicely
labeled with number and everything.

I'd like to see Valve come up with their own version of the "live
master ban-list"  instead of us relying on 3rd party mods.

On 1/30/12, Mike @ BOOM!  wrote:
> I was like you when it came to dealing with cheaters. I was so sick of them
> I almost stopped hosting.
>
> The came SourceBans and Kigen's AC. For the past 2+ years we have used
> SourceBans: www.sourcebans.net to handle our Admin management and bans list
> on a global community level. Banned in one server means banned in all our
> servers when using SourceBans. We also use the Steambans SBSRC Plugin at:
> www.steambans.com, which is another global ban list with 1000's of banned
> cheater SteamIDs in it. Finally and most importantly, there are two cheat
> detection plugins that block and ban a ton of cheaters for us. The original
> Kigen's Anticheat: http://www.kigenac.com/ SourceMod plugin (wonderful!!!)
> and the newer SourceMod Anticheat (SMAC), spun off of Kigen's platform. Both
> Kigen's and SMAC integrate seamlessly with Sourcebans to perma-ban suspect
> cheaters without an Admin being in the server. I can't say enough about
> Kigen and his wonderful work. It really has saved our asses and it's very
> cool to see players being banned when they cheat when Admins are in the
> server. It's like having an Admin who is spectating every player on every
> server 24/7!
>
> By running a global ban management system like SourceBans and having
> real-time cheat detection of the likes of Kigen's AC or SMAC, we have
> virtually eliminated the need for Admins most of the time. Sure and
> occasional player is missed when using some cheat we can't
> T detect, but this is so rare we don't worry that much about it. You can
> even download the banlists from other communities who make them available on
> their Sourcebans site so you don't have to start from scratch.
>
> Check out the links and let me know if you have any questions.
> Mike
>
> -Original Message-
> From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
> [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Rob Liu
> Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 5:45 PM
> To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
> Subject: Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters
>
> Price of the game going free to play.  Servers get more traffic, but no
> other way to deal with persistent cheaters and griefers.  Ban has lost its
> meaning.  There is nothing we can do as server owners.
>
> Valve really need to figure something out.
>
> On 1/30/12, hlds  wrote:
>> I had once a problem with a guy that had many F2P accounts and as
>> provider one of the biggest from my country (dynamic IPs and
>> impossible to ban), but I was lucky to find out that he also had a web
>> server hosted on his computer. I did a script to check every 5 minutes
>> the IP for that site and to update a firewall rule, but usually you
>> can't do nothing, except to have some nice words for Valve and as many
> admins as possible.
>>
>>
>>
>> I don't understand why this is not a top priority thing for Valve,
>> because a cheater with speedhack can empty a server in few minutes. At
>> least we should have access to some hardware fingerprint or something like
> this.
>>
>>
>>
>> From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
>> [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Alexander Z
>> Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 10:42 PM
>> To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
>> Subject: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters
>>
>>
>>
>> The kind with dynamic IPs, lots of F2P accounts and time to spare.
>>
>> Any tips on dealing with them?
>>
>>
>
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Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

[Mike @ BOOM!]

I was like you when it came to dealing with cheaters. I was so sick of them
I almost stopped hosting. 

The came SourceBans and Kigen's AC. For the past 2+ years we have used
SourceBans: www.sourcebans.net to handle our Admin management and bans list
on a global community level. Banned in one server means banned in all our
servers when using SourceBans. We also use the Steambans SBSRC Plugin at:
www.steambans.com, which is another global ban list with 1000's of banned
cheater SteamIDs in it. Finally and most importantly, there are two cheat
detection plugins that block and ban a ton of cheaters for us. The original
Kigen's Anticheat: http://www.kigenac.com/ SourceMod plugin (wonderful!!!)
and the newer SourceMod Anticheat (SMAC), spun off of Kigen's platform. Both
Kigen's and SMAC integrate seamlessly with Sourcebans to perma-ban suspect
cheaters without an Admin being in the server. I can't say enough about
Kigen and his wonderful work. It really has saved our asses and it's very
cool to see players being banned when they cheat when Admins are in the
server. It's like having an Admin who is spectating every player on every
server 24/7!

By running a global ban management system like SourceBans and having
real-time cheat detection of the likes of Kigen's AC or SMAC, we have
virtually eliminated the need for Admins most of the time. Sure and
occasional player is missed when using some cheat we can't
T detect, but this is so rare we don't worry that much about it. You can
even download the banlists from other communities who make them available on
their Sourcebans site so you don't have to start from scratch.

Check out the links and let me know if you have any questions.
Mike

-Original Message-
From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
[mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Rob Liu
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 5:45 PM
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

Price of the game going free to play.  Servers get more traffic, but no
other way to deal with persistent cheaters and griefers.  Ban has lost its
meaning.  There is nothing we can do as server owners.

Valve really need to figure something out.

On 1/30/12, hlds  wrote:
> I had once a problem with a guy that had many F2P accounts and as 
> provider one of the biggest from my country (dynamic IPs and 
> impossible to ban), but I was lucky to find out that he also had a web 
> server hosted on his computer. I did a script to check every 5 minutes 
> the IP for that site and to update a firewall rule, but usually you 
> can't do nothing, except to have some nice words for Valve and as many
admins as possible.
>
>
>
> I don't understand why this is not a top priority thing for Valve, 
> because a cheater with speedhack can empty a server in few minutes. At 
> least we should have access to some hardware fingerprint or something like
this.
>
>
>
> From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
> [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Alexander Z
> Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 10:42 PM
> To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
> Subject: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters
>
>
>
> The kind with dynamic IPs, lots of F2P accounts and time to spare.
>
> Any tips on dealing with them?
>
>

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Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

[Rob Liu]

Price of the game going free to play.  Servers get more traffic, but
no other way to deal with persistent cheaters and griefers.  Ban has
lost its meaning.  There is nothing we can do as server owners.

Valve really need to figure something out.

On 1/30/12, hlds  wrote:
> I had once a problem with a guy that had many F2P accounts and as provider
> one of the biggest from my country (dynamic IPs and impossible to ban), but
> I was lucky to find out that he also had a web server hosted on his
> computer. I did a script to check every 5 minutes the IP for that site and
> to update a firewall rule, but usually you can't do nothing, except to have
> some nice words for Valve and as many admins as possible.
>
>
>
> I don't understand why this is not a top priority thing for Valve, because a
> cheater with speedhack can empty a server in few minutes. At least we should
> have access to some hardware fingerprint or something like this.
>
>
>
> From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
> [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Alexander Z
> Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 10:42 PM
> To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
> Subject: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters
>
>
>
> The kind with dynamic IPs, lots of F2P accounts and time to spare.
>
> Any tips on dealing with them?
>
>

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Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

[hlds]

I had once a problem with a guy that had many F2P accounts and as provider
one of the biggest from my country (dynamic IPs and impossible to ban), but
I was lucky to find out that he also had a web server hosted on his
computer. I did a script to check every 5 minutes the IP for that site and
to update a firewall rule, but usually you can't do nothing, except to have
some nice words for Valve and as many admins as possible.

 

I don't understand why this is not a top priority thing for Valve, because a
cheater with speedhack can empty a server in few minutes. At least we should
have access to some hardware fingerprint or something like this.

 

From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
[mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Alexander Z
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 10:42 PM
To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
Subject: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

 

The kind with dynamic IPs, lots of F2P accounts and time to spare.

Any tips on dealing with them?

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Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

[Connor M.]

Pretty much what Shawn said. Not much you could do. If you do happen to
catch one in the act, the best thing you can do is use F7 in-game while in
spectator mode (some not-totally-dumb cheaters may switch their stuff off
though) and select the cheater (if it's one of those rapidly name-changing
types, select names until you see a red box in the screenshot, if you see
it, you've got the cheater). Get other players on your server to do this
too, as Valve will likely notice that particular cheater faster. Then, feel
free to ban the hacker from your server(s). VAC tends to catch most hacks,
but it's a delayed banning system.

You could also install a SourceMod global banning system like SourceBans
(which allows demo upload support if anyone on your server took a demo of
the cheater).

If you happen to get your hands on some of the programs the cheaters use
somehow, you might want to pass it along through an email to Valve so that
it can get passed on to the TF2 team (and other applicable games the hack
applies to) internally and hope that it gets patched.

Just hope that they don't go deep into illegal territory and (D)DoS your
servers. If they happen to do so, get a hold of your host/ISP (if you're
running a server that you built/bought and are not using a host) and
explain what happened as some programs that do such things can produce *
EXTREME* amounts of bandwidth which can net you with a $15K bill (like
someone on Facepunch experienced, didn't see the thread myself because
there's too much traffic all the time). Then, look up the IP so that you
can get a hold of local authorities and their ISP and tell them that
they're doing illegal things. Hope for the best, and rest feeling good that
you got rid of another skid.
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Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

[Cc2iscooL]

Contact their ISP and report them for abuse. It will stop it pretty quickly.

On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 3:41 PM, Alexander Z  wrote:

> The kind with dynamic IPs, lots of F2P accounts and time to spare.
> Any tips on dealing with them?
>
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Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

[shawn]

On 1/29/2012 12:41 PM, Alexander Z wrote:

The kind with dynamic IPs, lots of F2P accounts and time to spare.
Any tips on dealing with them?



Unfortunately, the best thing I can suggest is patience. Unless you're 
willing to block an entire I.P. range to block one person, or to call 
someones ISP, there's not much else to do.



--Razer/Shawn



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Re: [hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

[Eduard Osman]

There was a plugin that could insta-kick/ban F2P players. But the downside
is that it will do it to any free to play player.
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[hlds] Dealing with persistent cheaters

[Alexander Z]

The kind with dynamic IPs, lots of F2P accounts and time to spare.
Any tips on dealing with them?
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