Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don't owe you anything
I don't agree with that. When someone post a problem, first come advices from maybe not too much expert people, when the problem persists, more educated and knowledged people start to write and maybe they find what causes the problem, but they can't solve it, than experts. If expert can't handle/solve the problem, valve comes into play and at that time, before valve gets involved, people already figured out possible causes of the problem, valve solve it and there is virtually no unresolved major issue older than a month (I think). This is how it should work and I think it's working that way on this list. It's like if I don't know something, I ask my brother, if we together can't solve it, we ask our parents... Actually, when I don't know something I always use google first, than these slower ways of obtaining answer :) Kveri PS: sorry for my english :) Cc2iscooL wrote / napísal(a): Actually the only reason this list has become virtually useless is that Valve has stopped responding to it. Alfred, where art thou?! We miss you! :( On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 3:48 PM, sixtysixno...@hotmail.com wrote: Well Said -Original Message- From: Kingsley Foreman kings...@internode.com.au Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don't owe you anything. I'm actually more annoyed at the people on the list who have changed it into what it is today rather then a useful list like it used to be. I don't care about your business, what upsets you at night, how the world is out to get you, or your dick size. I care about patches and fixes with people willing to contribute to make something better, not whinge about why it isn't. So for the people working out bugs, making mods, and generally helping others, I salute you. For the rest maybe you should start a blog. Except for the talk of a boycott due to the timeout on mapchange problem of course. Isn't this sort of stuff what the Steampowered forums are for? With the level of spam this list has, it would be a full time job for someone at Valve to keep up with it. For the most part, this list has ceased to be useful. Which is a shame. -Original Message- From: SakeFox sake...@kingdomsend.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don't owe you anything. There was never anyone screaming about a boycott or alike. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don't owe you anything
So where else is it possible to have a discussion? The Steam forums? Yeah, right. On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 10:48 PM, sixtysixno...@hotmail.com wrote: Well Said -Original Message- From: Kingsley Foreman kings...@internode.com.au Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don't owe you anything. I'm actually more annoyed at the people on the list who have changed it into what it is today rather then a useful list like it used to be. I don't care about your business, what upsets you at night, how the world is out to get you, or your dick size. I care about patches and fixes with people willing to contribute to make something better, not whinge about why it isn't. So for the people working out bugs, making mods, and generally helping others, I salute you. For the rest maybe you should start a blog. Except for the talk of a boycott due to the timeout on mapchange problem of course. Isn't this sort of stuff what the Steampowered forums are for? With the level of spam this list has, it would be a full time job for someone at Valve to keep up with it. For the most part, this list has ceased to be useful. Which is a shame. -Original Message- From: SakeFox sake...@kingdomsend.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don't owe you anything. There was never anyone screaming about a boycott or alike. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer!
Agreed! Jon From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Kveri [kv...@kveri.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 2:07 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! I agree. Kveri Blood Letter wrote / napísal(a): If Valve completely ignores server operators who provide free servers, without which their games would be useless, they suck. If Valve lets long standing bugs, exploits, and security issues go unattended while focusing only on the latest content update + free weekend, they clearly prioritize sales over customers. I don't know about Valve's office, but if something goes wrong with a system at my office, even on Christmas day, we respond to it, and come into the office if necessary. If there are fires wreaking havoc with the power grid and people are being evacuated from their homes, we coordinate to make sure our servers are backed up, the backups are offsite, and the servers are safe. If someone at Valve wants a break, they can take vacation days. Do they only have 3 guys, and each only does 1 thing? I hope not. Any company worth it's salt knows you need redundancy in your mind share. Valve IS ignoring this list, by not replying. They get torn apart because they never respond to important issues, they're always late, and they never, EVER, provide clear and complete answers, let alone any semblance of documentation. Even if I were a child, I would still be a paying customer. If you're saying Valve gets a pass because gaming is not a priority in life, then you don't understand a single thing about having a job. If your job is to make games, you do that. If your job is to deliver mail, you do that. Working in a particular job sector does not give you the right to slack off. If Valve fixes everything and provides complete and correct documentation, then they get support and sales. Going from an F to an A doesn't change the fact that you still had an F. No one is treating Valve like shit. We are simply demanding we get some support, some documentation, and some communication. We get none of those things. Being a customer DOES give you the right to expect a certain level of quality and service from the business you are patronizing. If Valve's priorities continue to diverge from what so many of us expect, that's fine. They'll just lose our money and our support. Let's be clear here - server admins are supporting Valve, not the other way around. I'm sorry I can't apply for a job at Valve, I already have a job of my own. I can't be programming for everyone in the world, can I? Regardless, I wouldn't want to work in an office where a complete lack of customer support gets a passing grade. Valve's lack of support and communication is indefensible to anyone with even a remote knowledge of programming and software development. Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 11:12:41 -0500 From: richard@gmail.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! If Valve doesn't do everything we say, they suck. If Valve doesn't fix everything now, they suck. If Valve doesn't kiss our asses every second of every day, they suck. They don't care, they won't fix this, they refuse to fix that. All they want is our money. You all sound like a broken record. And worse than that, you have no lives outside of this thing we have here. Did anyone stop to think that since they all busted their asses for who knows how long getting Left 4 Dead out the door, while providing updates to TF2 the whole time, that maybe...just maybe, they'd want to take a break for a little while during the holidays? You know...so they could spend time with their families. Honestly, since release of TOB, there have been a relentless amount of updates to their products. In the time that has passed from TOB until now, the only people being neglected were probably most of the families of Valve employees. Does anyone feel they deserve a little break? They're ignoring us? Really? You think so? Does anyone here subscribe to HLCoders? A little civility goes a long way. In my opinion, Valve isn't ignoring this list, they just don't want to reply. I swear, this list = SPUF sometimes. Any two words they say are held against them forever. I know that a lot of kids subscribe to this list, so it would be difficult for a lot of you to understand, but there is such a thing as priorities in life. Gaming is not as high on that list once you have a family to take care of and a boss to answer to. And you are not the boss of anyone at Valve. Valve knows about the problems, obviously. You all keep saying the same things over and over. Give them a break. Just because you didn't have anything to do for the past couple of weeks doesn't mean
Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don't owe you anything.
I've stayed quiet on this one but seriously i'm sick of the spam. If you want to whine about Valve go create your own mail list and feel free to do it all you want. I know that many of you have been hosting servers for a long time, I also know many of you haven't im also assuming some people on this list aren't hosters at all. However little support from games companies from isn't something new, it has been going on size the first dedicated server was released. Valve traditionally are far far far better then most if not all companies on releasing patches and fixes. Anyone here heard of the Battlefield series of games? However this isn't the problem here, have any of you actually wondered if it is actually us as a whole who have caused the problem of valve not listening. Ive been on this mail list for many many years, way before steam was released, back when CS was really the only game it talked about. The list was 1000x better then it is now. If there was a post it was us or someone helping someone else or a release. No crying that Valve don't love us, It was even before GSPs went on huge rants because a patch didn't do they wanted and it was costing them money. Back then Valve responded to most if not all problems. Why because when they did everyone said thank you and didn't scream boycott and cry foul. People get over it. Valve are a business, Valve of course want sales, they same way you do. We aren't valves customers if anything most of you are using something Valve give out for free to make money. And on a final note, i love people who scream boycott, why? because when you do it mean more player for us when when we ignore it. I'm actually more annoyed at the people on the list who have changed it into what it is today rather then a useful list like it used to be. I don't care about your business, what upsets you at night, how the world is out to get you, or your dick size. I care about patches and fixes with people willing to contribute to make something better, not whinge about why it isn't. So for the people working out bugs, making mods, and generally helping others, I salute you. For the rest maybe you should start a blog. On a final note, If you tell someone they are shit at playing catch every time they come round to play catch, eventually they will stop coming around. That is what valve has done. PS. yes I do feel bad about contributing to this tripe. Kingsley -- From: Jon cha...@trashedgamers.com Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 2:43 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! Agreed! Jon From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Kveri [kv...@kveri.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 2:07 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! I agree. Kveri Blood Letter wrote / napísal(a): If Valve completely ignores server operators who provide free servers, without which their games would be useless, they suck. If Valve lets long standing bugs, exploits, and security issues go unattended while focusing only on the latest content update + free weekend, they clearly prioritize sales over customers. I don't know about Valve's office, but if something goes wrong with a system at my office, even on Christmas day, we respond to it, and come into the office if necessary. If there are fires wreaking havoc with the power grid and people are being evacuated from their homes, we coordinate to make sure our servers are backed up, the backups are offsite, and the servers are safe. If someone at Valve wants a break, they can take vacation days. Do they only have 3 guys, and each only does 1 thing? I hope not. Any company worth it's salt knows you need redundancy in your mind share. Valve IS ignoring this list, by not replying. They get torn apart because they never respond to important issues, they're always late, and they never, EVER, provide clear and complete answers, let alone any semblance of documentation. Even if I were a child, I would still be a paying customer. If you're saying Valve gets a pass because gaming is not a priority in life, then you don't understand a single thing about having a job. If your job is to make games, you do that. If your job is to deliver mail, you do that. Working in a particular job sector does not give you the right to slack off. If Valve fixes everything and provides complete and correct documentation, then they get support and sales. Going from an F to an A doesn't change the fact that you still had an F. No one is treating Valve like shit. We are simply demanding we get some support, some documentation, and some communication. We get none of those
Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don't owe you anything.
Legitimate complaints != Spam. Our concerns aren't being addressed. Like I've said before, I just want answers. I'm not telling Valve they suck - just the opposite. I've said many times they're the best in this space. But being the best means being accountable. I'm just asking them to give us some kind of idea as to when this very serious problem will be fixed. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Kingsley Foreman Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 4:09 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don't owe you anything. I've stayed quiet on this one but seriously i'm sick of the spam. If you want to whine about Valve go create your own mail list and feel free to do it all you want. [snip, for great justice] ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don't owe you anything.
Posting 40, 50, and 60 page threads with COMPLAINTS THAT HAVE BEEN MADE FOR WEEKS is spam though, Karl. We get it, you have your panties in a wad. EVERYONE gets it. I really think you have mistaken this mailing list as some sort of support or complaint forum. IT'S NOT! This mailing list is for server operators to help eachother. This is not a Valve support list. On Thu, 2009-01-08 at 16:15 -0500, Karl Weckstrom wrote: Legitimate complaints != Spam. Our concerns aren't being addressed. Like I've said before, I just want answers. I'm not telling Valve they suck - just the opposite. I've said many times they're the best in this space. But being the best means being accountable. I'm just asking them to give us some kind of idea as to when this very serious problem will be fixed. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Kingsley Foreman Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 4:09 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don't owe you anything. I've stayed quiet on this one but seriously i'm sick of the spam. If you want to whine about Valve go create your own mail list and feel free to do it all you want. [snip, for great justice] ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don't owe you anything.
Before you make your post on a subject, please read what was posted and not just assume you read it all. There was never anyone screaming about a boycott or alike. It sounds like your rant is more about other peoples issues then the one that this topic was about. Kingsley Foreman wrote: I've stayed quiet on this one but seriously i'm sick of the spam. If you want to whine about Valve go create your own mail list and feel free to do it all you want. I know that many of you have been hosting servers for a long time, I also know many of you haven't im also assuming some people on this list aren't hosters at all. However little support from games companies from isn't something new, it has been going on size the first dedicated server was released. Valve traditionally are far far far better then most if not all companies on releasing patches and fixes. Anyone here heard of the Battlefield series of games? However this isn't the problem here, have any of you actually wondered if it is actually us as a whole who have caused the problem of valve not listening. Ive been on this mail list for many many years, way before steam was released, back when CS was really the only game it talked about. The list was 1000x better then it is now. If there was a post it was us or someone helping someone else or a release. No crying that Valve don't love us, It was even before GSPs went on huge rants because a patch didn't do they wanted and it was costing them money. Back then Valve responded to most if not all problems. Why because when they did everyone said thank you and didn't scream boycott and cry foul. People get over it. Valve are a business, Valve of course want sales, they same way you do. We aren't valves customers if anything most of you are using something Valve give out for free to make money. And on a final note, i love people who scream boycott, why? because when you do it mean more player for us when when we ignore it. I'm actually more annoyed at the people on the list who have changed it into what it is today rather then a useful list like it used to be. I don't care about your business, what upsets you at night, how the world is out to get you, or your dick size. I care about patches and fixes with people willing to contribute to make something better, not whinge about why it isn't. So for the people working out bugs, making mods, and generally helping others, I salute you. For the rest maybe you should start a blog. On a final note, If you tell someone they are shit at playing catch every time they come round to play catch, eventually they will stop coming around. That is what valve has done. PS. yes I do feel bad about contributing to this tripe. Kingsley -- From: Jon cha...@trashedgamers.com Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 2:43 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! Agreed! Jon From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Kveri [kv...@kveri.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 2:07 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! I agree. Kveri Blood Letter wrote / napísal(a): If Valve completely ignores server operators who provide free servers, without which their games would be useless, they suck. If Valve lets long standing bugs, exploits, and security issues go unattended while focusing only on the latest content update + free weekend, they clearly prioritize sales over customers. I don't know about Valve's office, but if something goes wrong with a system at my office, even on Christmas day, we respond to it, and come into the office if necessary. If there are fires wreaking havoc with the power grid and people are being evacuated from their homes, we coordinate to make sure our servers are backed up, the backups are offsite, and the servers are safe. If someone at Valve wants a break, they can take vacation days. Do they only have 3 guys, and each only does 1 thing? I hope not. Any company worth it's salt knows you need redundancy in your mind share. Valve IS ignoring this list, by not replying. They get torn apart because they never respond to important issues, they're always late, and they never, EVER, provide clear and complete answers, let alone any semblance of documentation. Even if I were a child, I would still be a paying customer. If you're saying Valve gets a pass because gaming is not a priority in life, then you don't understand a single thing about having a job. If your job is to make games, you do that. If your job is to deliver mail, you do that. Working in a particular job sector does not give you the right to slack off
Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don't owe you anything.
So basically you equivocate Valve's response with a 5 year year old child taking his ball and going home. I agree completely. Kingsley Foreman wrote: I've stayed quiet on this one but seriously i'm sick of the spam. If you want to whine about Valve go create your own mail list and feel free to do it all you want. I know that many of you have been hosting servers for a long time, I also know many of you haven't im also assuming some people on this list aren't hosters at all. However little support from games companies from isn't something new, it has been going on size the first dedicated server was released. Valve traditionally are far far far better then most if not all companies on releasing patches and fixes. Anyone here heard of the Battlefield series of games? However this isn't the problem here, have any of you actually wondered if it is actually us as a whole who have caused the problem of valve not listening. Ive been on this mail list for many many years, way before steam was released, back when CS was really the only game it talked about. The list was 1000x better then it is now. If there was a post it was us or someone helping someone else or a release. No crying that Valve don't love us, It was even before GSPs went on huge rants because a patch didn't do they wanted and it was costing them money. Back then Valve responded to most if not all problems. Why because when they did everyone said thank you and didn't scream boycott and cry foul. People get over it. Valve are a business, Valve of course want sales, they same way you do. We aren't valves customers if anything most of you are using something Valve give out for free to make money. And on a final note, i love people who scream boycott, why? because when you do it mean more player for us when when we ignore it. I'm actually more annoyed at the people on the list who have changed it into what it is today rather then a useful list like it used to be. I don't care about your business, what upsets you at night, how the world is out to get you, or your dick size. I care about patches and fixes with people willing to contribute to make something better, not whinge about why it isn't. So for the people working out bugs, making mods, and generally helping others, I salute you. For the rest maybe you should start a blog. On a final note, If you tell someone they are shit at playing catch every time they come round to play catch, eventually they will stop coming around. That is what valve has done. PS. yes I do feel bad about contributing to this tripe. Kingsley -- From: Jon cha...@trashedgamers.com Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 2:43 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! Agreed! Jon From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Kveri [kv...@kveri.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 2:07 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! I agree. Kveri Blood Letter wrote / napísal(a): If Valve completely ignores server operators who provide free servers, without which their games would be useless, they suck. If Valve lets long standing bugs, exploits, and security issues go unattended while focusing only on the latest content update + free weekend, they clearly prioritize sales over customers. I don't know about Valve's office, but if something goes wrong with a system at my office, even on Christmas day, we respond to it, and come into the office if necessary. If there are fires wreaking havoc with the power grid and people are being evacuated from their homes, we coordinate to make sure our servers are backed up, the backups are offsite, and the servers are safe. If someone at Valve wants a break, they can take vacation days. Do they only have 3 guys, and each only does 1 thing? I hope not. Any company worth it's salt knows you need redundancy in your mind share. Valve IS ignoring this list, by not replying. They get torn apart because they never respond to important issues, they're always late, and they never, EVER, provide clear and complete answers, let alone any semblance of documentation. Even if I were a child, I would still be a paying customer. If you're saying Valve gets a pass because gaming is not a priority in life, then you don't understand a single thing about having a job. If your job is to make games, you do that. If your job is to deliver mail, you do that. Working in a particular job sector does not give you the right to slack off. If Valve fixes everything and provides complete and correct documentation, then they get support and sales. Going from an F
Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don't owe you anything.
You aren't the one who needs to get it. And no, I don't think I've mistaken anything. This is the dedicated server mailing list. It's owned by Valve. Nowhere is it stated that this is not to be used for support or complaints. Did you make that up? -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of msleeper Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 4:22 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don't owe you anything. Posting 40, 50, and 60 page threads with COMPLAINTS THAT HAVE BEEN MADE FOR WEEKS is spam though, Karl. We get it, you have your panties in a wad. EVERYONE gets it. I really think you have mistaken this mailing list as some sort of support or complaint forum. IT'S NOT! This mailing list is for server operators to help eachother. This is not a Valve support list. On Thu, 2009-01-08 at 16:15 -0500, Karl Weckstrom wrote: Legitimate complaints != Spam. Our concerns aren't being addressed. Like I've said before, I just want answers. I'm not telling Valve they suck - just the opposite. I've said many times they're the best in this space. But being the best means being accountable. I'm just asking them to give us some kind of idea as to when this very serious problem will be fixed. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Kingsley Foreman Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 4:09 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don't owe you anything. I've stayed quiet on this one but seriously i'm sick of the spam. If you want to whine about Valve go create your own mail list and feel free to do it all you want. [snip, for great justice] ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don't owe you anything.
It was a generalization, ive been on this list a long time and seen many people yell boycott. and to Timothy If someone kept calling me to tell me how much I suck i would stop answering the phone wouldn't you? and to Karl this mail list was a support list for the windows version of hlds that is it, so unless you are offering help, asking for help, reporting bugs, or getting info about a patch you prob shouldn't be talking. That is how it was for many many years. Id be a happy man if everyone who went off topic were removed from the list. Saying that because I don't really want to prolong this topic i won't respond again, I only wanted to clear up what Sakefox said. Kingsley -- From: SakeFox sake...@kingdomsend.com Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 7:51 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don't owe you anything. Before you make your post on a subject, please read what was posted and not just assume you read it all. There was never anyone screaming about a boycott or alike. It sounds like your rant is more about other peoples issues then the one that this topic was about. Kingsley Foreman wrote: I've stayed quiet on this one but seriously i'm sick of the spam. If you want to whine about Valve go create your own mail list and feel free to do it all you want. I know that many of you have been hosting servers for a long time, I also know many of you haven't im also assuming some people on this list aren't hosters at all. However little support from games companies from isn't something new, it has been going on size the first dedicated server was released. Valve traditionally are far far far better then most if not all companies on releasing patches and fixes. Anyone here heard of the Battlefield series of games? However this isn't the problem here, have any of you actually wondered if it is actually us as a whole who have caused the problem of valve not listening. Ive been on this mail list for many many years, way before steam was released, back when CS was really the only game it talked about. The list was 1000x better then it is now. If there was a post it was us or someone helping someone else or a release. No crying that Valve don't love us, It was even before GSPs went on huge rants because a patch didn't do they wanted and it was costing them money. Back then Valve responded to most if not all problems. Why because when they did everyone said thank you and didn't scream boycott and cry foul. People get over it. Valve are a business, Valve of course want sales, they same way you do. We aren't valves customers if anything most of you are using something Valve give out for free to make money. And on a final note, i love people who scream boycott, why? because when you do it mean more player for us when when we ignore it. I'm actually more annoyed at the people on the list who have changed it into what it is today rather then a useful list like it used to be. I don't care about your business, what upsets you at night, how the world is out to get you, or your dick size. I care about patches and fixes with people willing to contribute to make something better, not whinge about why it isn't. So for the people working out bugs, making mods, and generally helping others, I salute you. For the rest maybe you should start a blog. On a final note, If you tell someone they are shit at playing catch every time they come round to play catch, eventually they will stop coming around. That is what valve has done. PS. yes I do feel bad about contributing to this tripe. Kingsley -- From: Jon cha...@trashedgamers.com Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 2:43 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! Agreed! Jon From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Kveri [kv...@kveri.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 2:07 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! I agree. Kveri Blood Letter wrote / napísal(a): If Valve completely ignores server operators who provide free servers, without which their games would be useless, they suck. If Valve lets long standing bugs, exploits, and security issues go unattended while focusing only on the latest content update + free weekend, they clearly prioritize sales over customers. I don't know about Valve's office, but if something goes wrong with a system at my office, even on Christmas day, we respond to it, and come into the office if necessary. If there are fires wreaking havoc with the power grid
Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don't owe you anything
Well Said -Original Message- From: Kingsley Foreman kings...@internode.com.au Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don't owe you anything. I'm actually more annoyed at the people on the list who have changed it into what it is today rather then a useful list like it used to be. I don't care about your business, what upsets you at night, how the world is out to get you, or your dick size. I care about patches and fixes with people willing to contribute to make something better, not whinge about why it isn't. So for the people working out bugs, making mods, and generally helping others, I salute you. For the rest maybe you should start a blog. Except for the talk of a boycott due to the timeout on mapchange problem of course. Isn't this sort of stuff what the Steampowered forums are for? With the level of spam this list has, it would be a full time job for someone at Valve to keep up with it. For the most part, this list has ceased to be useful. Which is a shame. -Original Message- From: SakeFox sake...@kingdomsend.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don't owe you anything. There was never anyone screaming about a boycott or alike. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don't owe you anything.
Seriously? Have you ever been on a mailing list for a piece of software before? Go though the HLDS list archives and tell me that the content of the posts is in any way similar to now. In fact you know what, don't, Kingley is right, this whole conversation is pointless. On Jan 8, 2009, at 1:30 PM, Karl Weckstrom wrote: You aren't the one who needs to get it. And no, I don't think I've mistaken anything. This is the dedicated server mailing list. It's owned by Valve. Nowhere is it stated that this is not to be used for support or complaints. Did you make that up? -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com ] On Behalf Of msleeper Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 4:22 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don't owe you anything. Posting 40, 50, and 60 page threads with COMPLAINTS THAT HAVE BEEN MADE FOR WEEKS is spam though, Karl. We get it, you have your panties in a wad. EVERYONE gets it. I really think you have mistaken this mailing list as some sort of support or complaint forum. IT'S NOT! This mailing list is for server operators to help eachother. This is not a Valve support list. On Thu, 2009-01-08 at 16:15 -0500, Karl Weckstrom wrote: Legitimate complaints != Spam. Our concerns aren't being addressed. Like I've said before, I just want answers. I'm not telling Valve they suck - just the opposite. I've said many times they're the best in this space. But being the best means being accountable. I'm just asking them to give us some kind of idea as to when this very serious problem will be fixed. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com ] On Behalf Of Kingsley Foreman Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 4:09 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don't owe you anything. I've stayed quiet on this one but seriously i'm sick of the spam. If you want to whine about Valve go create your own mail list and feel free to do it all you want. [snip, for great justice] ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don't owe you anything.
Understood, Kingsley. And the people suffering from this bug aren't asking for help at this point. We're BEGGING for it. We want to know when this problem will be fixed as it is a major problem that's causing us grief (and a lot more work) - and this is the most reasonable place for this problem to be discussed. To those of you who wish it would just stop, you're entitled to wish that - just as I am entitled to wish for it to continue in hopes that Valve will speak up about this. We are desperate for action on this bug, and we are completely within reason to do so. -k -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Kingsley Foreman Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 4:41 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don't owe you anything. It was a generalization, ive been on this list a long time and seen many people yell boycott. and to Timothy If someone kept calling me to tell me how much I suck i would stop answering the phone wouldn't you? and to Karl this mail list was a support list for the windows version of hlds that is it, so unless you are offering help, asking for help, reporting bugs, or getting info about a patch you prob shouldn't be talking. That is how it was for many many years. Id be a happy man if everyone who went off topic were removed from the list. Saying that because I don't really want to prolong this topic i won't respond again, I only wanted to clear up what Sakefox said. Kingsley -- From: SakeFox sake...@kingdomsend.com Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 7:51 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don't owe you anything. Before you make your post on a subject, please read what was posted and not just assume you read it all. There was never anyone screaming about a boycott or alike. It sounds like your rant is more about other peoples issues then the one that this topic was about. Kingsley Foreman wrote: I've stayed quiet on this one but seriously i'm sick of the spam. If you want to whine about Valve go create your own mail list and feel free to do it all you want. I know that many of you have been hosting servers for a long time, I also know many of you haven't im also assuming some people on this list aren't hosters at all. However little support from games companies from isn't something new, it has been going on size the first dedicated server was released. Valve traditionally are far far far better then most if not all companies on releasing patches and fixes. Anyone here heard of the Battlefield series of games? However this isn't the problem here, have any of you actually wondered if it is actually us as a whole who have caused the problem of valve not listening. Ive been on this mail list for many many years, way before steam was released, back when CS was really the only game it talked about. The list was 1000x better then it is now. If there was a post it was us or someone helping someone else or a release. No crying that Valve don't love us, It was even before GSPs went on huge rants because a patch didn't do they wanted and it was costing them money. Back then Valve responded to most if not all problems. Why because when they did everyone said thank you and didn't scream boycott and cry foul. People get over it. Valve are a business, Valve of course want sales, they same way you do. We aren't valves customers if anything most of you are using something Valve give out for free to make money. And on a final note, i love people who scream boycott, why? because when you do it mean more player for us when when we ignore it. I'm actually more annoyed at the people on the list who have changed it into what it is today rather then a useful list like it used to be. I don't care about your business, what upsets you at night, how the world is out to get you, or your dick size. I care about patches and fixes with people willing to contribute to make something better, not whinge about why it isn't. So for the people working out bugs, making mods, and generally helping others, I salute you. For the rest maybe you should start a blog. On a final note, If you tell someone they are shit at playing catch every time they come round to play catch, eventually they will stop coming around. That is what valve has done. PS. yes I do feel bad about contributing to this tripe. Kingsley -- From: Jon cha...@trashedgamers.com Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 2:43 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! Agreed! Jon
Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don'towe you anything.
The problem is the damage was already done, id be stunned if valve reads the list at all now, I know I stopped reading a while ago, im mainly of the list for patches now, however I used to be a massive contributor, so did many others who are now virtually silent , It all changed around the release of CSS, the list suddenly become much larger, and the noise on the list became unbearable and it lost its way. Saying that back then when a problem like this happened, the list was fall of logs and tcpdumps trying to work out what was happening, rather then just people saying it is happening over and over again followed by chat about how valve owes us something. Kingsley -- From: Karl Weckstrom k...@weckstrom.com Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 8:27 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don'toweyouanything. Understood, Kingsley. And the people suffering from this bug aren't asking for help at this point. We're BEGGING for it. We want to know when this problem will be fixed as it is a major problem that's causing us grief (and a lot more work) - and this is the most reasonable place for this problem to be discussed. To those of you who wish it would just stop, you're entitled to wish that - just as I am entitled to wish for it to continue in hopes that Valve will speak up about this. We are desperate for action on this bug, and we are completely within reason to do so. -k -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Kingsley Foreman Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 4:41 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don't owe you anything. It was a generalization, ive been on this list a long time and seen many people yell boycott. and to Timothy If someone kept calling me to tell me how much I suck i would stop answering the phone wouldn't you? and to Karl this mail list was a support list for the windows version of hlds that is it, so unless you are offering help, asking for help, reporting bugs, or getting info about a patch you prob shouldn't be talking. That is how it was for many many years. Id be a happy man if everyone who went off topic were removed from the list. Saying that because I don't really want to prolong this topic i won't respond again, I only wanted to clear up what Sakefox said. Kingsley -- From: SakeFox sake...@kingdomsend.com Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 7:51 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don't owe you anything. Before you make your post on a subject, please read what was posted and not just assume you read it all. There was never anyone screaming about a boycott or alike. It sounds like your rant is more about other peoples issues then the one that this topic was about. Kingsley Foreman wrote: I've stayed quiet on this one but seriously i'm sick of the spam. If you want to whine about Valve go create your own mail list and feel free to do it all you want. I know that many of you have been hosting servers for a long time, I also know many of you haven't im also assuming some people on this list aren't hosters at all. However little support from games companies from isn't something new, it has been going on size the first dedicated server was released. Valve traditionally are far far far better then most if not all companies on releasing patches and fixes. Anyone here heard of the Battlefield series of games? However this isn't the problem here, have any of you actually wondered if it is actually us as a whole who have caused the problem of valve not listening. Ive been on this mail list for many many years, way before steam was released, back when CS was really the only game it talked about. The list was 1000x better then it is now. If there was a post it was us or someone helping someone else or a release. No crying that Valve don't love us, It was even before GSPs went on huge rants because a patch didn't do they wanted and it was costing them money. Back then Valve responded to most if not all problems. Why because when they did everyone said thank you and didn't scream boycott and cry foul. People get over it. Valve are a business, Valve of course want sales, they same way you do. We aren't valves customers if anything most of you are using something Valve give out for free to make money. And on a final note, i love people who scream boycott, why? because when you do it mean more player for us when when we ignore it. I'm actually more annoyed at the people on the list who have
Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don't owe you anything.
BUT DARREN THIS IS NOT HOW KARL WOULD RUN THINGS IF IT WERE HIS COMPANY, HE HAS BEEN WORKING IN AN IT COMPANY FOR 60 YEARS AND HE WOULD FIRE EVERY VALVE EMPLOYEE BECAUSE THEY DO NOT LIVE UP TO HIS IMMACULATE STANDARDS AND EVERYONE MUST ABIDE BY KARL'S VISION OF HOW A FREE AND UNSUPPORTED MAILING LIST SHOULD BE HANDLED. On Thu, 2009-01-08 at 13:48 -0800, Darren Gordon wrote: Seriously? Have you ever been on a mailing list for a piece of software before? Go though the HLDS list archives and tell me that the content of the posts is in any way similar to now. In fact you know what, don't, Kingley is right, this whole conversation is pointless. On Jan 8, 2009, at 1:30 PM, Karl Weckstrom wrote: You aren't the one who needs to get it. And no, I don't think I've mistaken anything. This is the dedicated server mailing list. It's owned by Valve. Nowhere is it stated that this is not to be used for support or complaints. Did you make that up? -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com ] On Behalf Of msleeper Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 4:22 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don't owe you anything. Posting 40, 50, and 60 page threads with COMPLAINTS THAT HAVE BEEN MADE FOR WEEKS is spam though, Karl. We get it, you have your panties in a wad. EVERYONE gets it. I really think you have mistaken this mailing list as some sort of support or complaint forum. IT'S NOT! This mailing list is for server operators to help eachother. This is not a Valve support list. On Thu, 2009-01-08 at 16:15 -0500, Karl Weckstrom wrote: Legitimate complaints != Spam. Our concerns aren't being addressed. Like I've said before, I just want answers. I'm not telling Valve they suck - just the opposite. I've said many times they're the best in this space. But being the best means being accountable. I'm just asking them to give us some kind of idea as to when this very serious problem will be fixed. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com ] On Behalf Of Kingsley Foreman Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 4:09 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don't owe you anything. I've stayed quiet on this one but seriously i'm sick of the spam. If you want to whine about Valve go create your own mail list and feel free to do it all you want. [snip, for great justice] ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don'towe you anything.
My trolling aside, thank you Kingsley. On Fri, 2009-01-09 at 08:37 +1030, Kingsley Foreman wrote: The problem is the damage was already done, id be stunned if valve reads the list at all now, I know I stopped reading a while ago, im mainly of the list for patches now, however I used to be a massive contributor, so did many others who are now virtually silent , It all changed around the release of CSS, the list suddenly become much larger, and the noise on the list became unbearable and it lost its way. Saying that back then when a problem like this happened, the list was fall of logs and tcpdumps trying to work out what was happening, rather then just people saying it is happening over and over again followed by chat about how valve owes us something. Kingsley -- From: Karl Weckstrom k...@weckstrom.com Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 8:27 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don'toweyouanything. Understood, Kingsley. And the people suffering from this bug aren't asking for help at this point. We're BEGGING for it. We want to know when this problem will be fixed as it is a major problem that's causing us grief (and a lot more work) - and this is the most reasonable place for this problem to be discussed. To those of you who wish it would just stop, you're entitled to wish that - just as I am entitled to wish for it to continue in hopes that Valve will speak up about this. We are desperate for action on this bug, and we are completely within reason to do so. -k -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Kingsley Foreman Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 4:41 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don't owe you anything. It was a generalization, ive been on this list a long time and seen many people yell boycott. and to Timothy If someone kept calling me to tell me how much I suck i would stop answering the phone wouldn't you? and to Karl this mail list was a support list for the windows version of hlds that is it, so unless you are offering help, asking for help, reporting bugs, or getting info about a patch you prob shouldn't be talking. That is how it was for many many years. Id be a happy man if everyone who went off topic were removed from the list. Saying that because I don't really want to prolong this topic i won't respond again, I only wanted to clear up what Sakefox said. Kingsley -- From: SakeFox sake...@kingdomsend.com Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 7:51 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don't owe you anything. Before you make your post on a subject, please read what was posted and not just assume you read it all. There was never anyone screaming about a boycott or alike. It sounds like your rant is more about other peoples issues then the one that this topic was about. Kingsley Foreman wrote: I've stayed quiet on this one but seriously i'm sick of the spam. If you want to whine about Valve go create your own mail list and feel free to do it all you want. I know that many of you have been hosting servers for a long time, I also know many of you haven't im also assuming some people on this list aren't hosters at all. However little support from games companies from isn't something new, it has been going on size the first dedicated server was released. Valve traditionally are far far far better then most if not all companies on releasing patches and fixes. Anyone here heard of the Battlefield series of games? However this isn't the problem here, have any of you actually wondered if it is actually us as a whole who have caused the problem of valve not listening. Ive been on this mail list for many many years, way before steam was released, back when CS was really the only game it talked about. The list was 1000x better then it is now. If there was a post it was us or someone helping someone else or a release. No crying that Valve don't love us, It was even before GSPs went on huge rants because a patch didn't do they wanted and it was costing them money. Back then Valve responded to most if not all problems. Why because when they did everyone said thank you and didn't scream boycott and cry foul. People get over it. Valve are a business, Valve of course want sales, they same way you do. We aren't valves customers if anything most of you are using something Valve give out
Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don't owe you anything.
Useless hyperbole. You know what they say - you're either part of the solution or part of the problem. You've clearly shown what side you're on. I'm not asking anyone to abide by my vision. You, on the other hand, are trying to cheerlead people into abiding by yours. Good luck with that. :) -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of msleeper Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 5:09 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don't owe you anything. BUT DARREN THIS IS NOT HOW KARL WOULD RUN THINGS IF IT WERE HIS COMPANY, HE HAS BEEN WORKING IN AN IT COMPANY FOR 60 YEARS AND HE WOULD FIRE EVERY VALVE EMPLOYEE BECAUSE THEY DO NOT LIVE UP TO HIS IMMACULATE STANDARDS AND EVERYONE MUST ABIDE BY KARL'S VISION OF HOW A FREE AND UNSUPPORTED MAILING LIST SHOULD BE HANDLED. On Thu, 2009-01-08 at 13:48 -0800, Darren Gordon wrote: Seriously? Have you ever been on a mailing list for a piece of software before? Go though the HLDS list archives and tell me that the content of the posts is in any way similar to now. In fact you know what, don't, Kingley is right, this whole conversation is pointless. On Jan 8, 2009, at 1:30 PM, Karl Weckstrom wrote: You aren't the one who needs to get it. And no, I don't think I've mistaken anything. This is the dedicated server mailing list. It's owned by Valve. Nowhere is it stated that this is not to be used for support or complaints. Did you make that up? -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com ] On Behalf Of msleeper Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 4:22 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don't owe you anything. Posting 40, 50, and 60 page threads with COMPLAINTS THAT HAVE BEEN MADE FOR WEEKS is spam though, Karl. We get it, you have your panties in a wad. EVERYONE gets it. I really think you have mistaken this mailing list as some sort of support or complaint forum. IT'S NOT! This mailing list is for server operators to help eachother. This is not a Valve support list. On Thu, 2009-01-08 at 16:15 -0500, Karl Weckstrom wrote: Legitimate complaints != Spam. Our concerns aren't being addressed. Like I've said before, I just want answers. I'm not telling Valve they suck - just the opposite. I've said many times they're the best in this space. But being the best means being accountable. I'm just asking them to give us some kind of idea as to when this very serious problem will be fixed. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com ] On Behalf Of Kingsley Foreman Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 4:09 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don't owe you anything. I've stayed quiet on this one but seriously i'm sick of the spam. If you want to whine about Valve go create your own mail list and feel free to do it all you want. [snip, for great justice] ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don't owe you anything.
lolin' at you thinking ANY of this is helping. At least by trolling there's no allusions about it. On Jan 8, 2009, at 2:19 PM, Karl Weckstrom wrote: Useless hyperbole. You know what they say - you're either part of the solution or part of the problem. You've clearly shown what side you're on. I'm not asking anyone to abide by my vision. You, on the other hand, are trying to cheerlead people into abiding by yours. Good luck with that. :) -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com ] On Behalf Of msleeper Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 5:09 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don't owe you anything. BUT DARREN THIS IS NOT HOW KARL WOULD RUN THINGS IF IT WERE HIS COMPANY, HE HAS BEEN WORKING IN AN IT COMPANY FOR 60 YEARS AND HE WOULD FIRE EVERY VALVE EMPLOYEE BECAUSE THEY DO NOT LIVE UP TO HIS IMMACULATE STANDARDS AND EVERYONE MUST ABIDE BY KARL'S VISION OF HOW A FREE AND UNSUPPORTED MAILING LIST SHOULD BE HANDLED. On Thu, 2009-01-08 at 13:48 -0800, Darren Gordon wrote: Seriously? Have you ever been on a mailing list for a piece of software before? Go though the HLDS list archives and tell me that the content of the posts is in any way similar to now. In fact you know what, don't, Kingley is right, this whole conversation is pointless. On Jan 8, 2009, at 1:30 PM, Karl Weckstrom wrote: You aren't the one who needs to get it. And no, I don't think I've mistaken anything. This is the dedicated server mailing list. It's owned by Valve. Nowhere is it stated that this is not to be used for support or complaints. Did you make that up? -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com ] On Behalf Of msleeper Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 4:22 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don't owe you anything. Posting 40, 50, and 60 page threads with COMPLAINTS THAT HAVE BEEN MADE FOR WEEKS is spam though, Karl. We get it, you have your panties in a wad. EVERYONE gets it. I really think you have mistaken this mailing list as some sort of support or complaint forum. IT'S NOT! This mailing list is for server operators to help eachother. This is not a Valve support list. On Thu, 2009-01-08 at 16:15 -0500, Karl Weckstrom wrote: Legitimate complaints != Spam. Our concerns aren't being addressed. Like I've said before, I just want answers. I'm not telling Valve they suck - just the opposite. I've said many times they're the best in this space. But being the best means being accountable. I'm just asking them to give us some kind of idea as to when this very serious problem will be fixed. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com ] On Behalf Of Kingsley Foreman Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 4:09 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don't owe you anything. I've stayed quiet on this one but seriously i'm sick of the spam. If you want to whine about Valve go create your own mail list and feel free to do it all you want. [snip, for great justice] ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don't owe you anything.
I'm looking for an answer. Maybe valve will answer to this problem and give us some kind of timeframe. Maybe they won't. At least I'm trying, as are several others in here apparently. If you want to lay on your back and laugh over our futile attempts - again - you have that right, and I won't try to deny you of it. -Karl -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Darren Gordon Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 5:30 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don't owe you anything. lolin' at you thinking ANY of this is helping. At least by trolling there's no allusions about it. On Jan 8, 2009, at 2:19 PM, Karl Weckstrom wrote: Useless hyperbole. You know what they say - you're either part of the solution or part of the problem. You've clearly shown what side you're on. I'm not asking anyone to abide by my vision. You, on the other hand, are trying to cheerlead people into abiding by yours. Good luck with that. :) -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com ] On Behalf Of msleeper Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 5:09 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don't owe you anything. BUT DARREN THIS IS NOT HOW KARL WOULD RUN THINGS IF IT WERE HIS COMPANY, HE HAS BEEN WORKING IN AN IT COMPANY FOR 60 YEARS AND HE WOULD FIRE EVERY VALVE EMPLOYEE BECAUSE THEY DO NOT LIVE UP TO HIS IMMACULATE STANDARDS AND EVERYONE MUST ABIDE BY KARL'S VISION OF HOW A FREE AND UNSUPPORTED MAILING LIST SHOULD BE HANDLED. On Thu, 2009-01-08 at 13:48 -0800, Darren Gordon wrote: Seriously? Have you ever been on a mailing list for a piece of software before? Go though the HLDS list archives and tell me that the content of the posts is in any way similar to now. In fact you know what, don't, Kingley is right, this whole conversation is pointless. On Jan 8, 2009, at 1:30 PM, Karl Weckstrom wrote: You aren't the one who needs to get it. And no, I don't think I've mistaken anything. This is the dedicated server mailing list. It's owned by Valve. Nowhere is it stated that this is not to be used for support or complaints. Did you make that up? -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com ] On Behalf Of msleeper Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 4:22 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don't owe you anything. Posting 40, 50, and 60 page threads with COMPLAINTS THAT HAVE BEEN MADE FOR WEEKS is spam though, Karl. We get it, you have your panties in a wad. EVERYONE gets it. I really think you have mistaken this mailing list as some sort of support or complaint forum. IT'S NOT! This mailing list is for server operators to help eachother. This is not a Valve support list. On Thu, 2009-01-08 at 16:15 -0500, Karl Weckstrom wrote: Legitimate complaints != Spam. Our concerns aren't being addressed. Like I've said before, I just want answers. I'm not telling Valve they suck - just the opposite. I've said many times they're the best in this space. But being the best means being accountable. I'm just asking them to give us some kind of idea as to when this very serious problem will be fixed. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com ] On Behalf Of Kingsley Foreman Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 4:09 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don't owe you anything. I've stayed quiet on this one but seriously i'm sick of the spam. If you want to whine about Valve go create your own mail list and feel free to do it all you want. [snip, for great justice] ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives
Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don't owe you anything
Actually the only reason this list has become virtually useless is that Valve has stopped responding to it. Alfred, where art thou?! We miss you! :( On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 3:48 PM, sixtysixno...@hotmail.com wrote: Well Said -Original Message- From: Kingsley Foreman kings...@internode.com.au Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don't owe you anything. I'm actually more annoyed at the people on the list who have changed it into what it is today rather then a useful list like it used to be. I don't care about your business, what upsets you at night, how the world is out to get you, or your dick size. I care about patches and fixes with people willing to contribute to make something better, not whinge about why it isn't. So for the people working out bugs, making mods, and generally helping others, I salute you. For the rest maybe you should start a blog. Except for the talk of a boycott due to the timeout on mapchange problem of course. Isn't this sort of stuff what the Steampowered forums are for? With the level of spam this list has, it would be a full time job for someone at Valve to keep up with it. For the most part, this list has ceased to be useful. Which is a shame. -Original Message- From: SakeFox sake...@kingdomsend.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! --- they don't owe you anything. There was never anyone screaming about a boycott or alike. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer!
I see this going like it was with CS 1.6. A game that is played competitively in front of very large audiences for thousands of dollars prize purses and even that didn't made Valve fix a lot of well known bugs. TF2 and L4D are still in development, if Valve thinks its worth to fix the bugs they will do it, if not learn to live with it like 1.6 players do. [ ]'s Daniel Duarte On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 10:36 PM, Neil Voutt mr.neosty...@gmail.com wrote: Mike. You only look like a troll. LOL 3 Neil Voutt http://www.neilvoutt.com Sent from my iPhone On 6-Jan-09, at 6:16 PM, Mike Stiehm mikesti...@gmail.com wrote: You must be new to this list... LOL I'm done with this also.. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of David Kellaway Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 11:50 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! This is fairly obviously an unconstructive troll, but it also does a nice job of summing up why the situation is ridiculous - valve really couldn't care less about perfectly valid complaints about their game being broken as all hell. They don't even reply to the list with we're looking at this or this will be fixed in build x, there's just endless complaints about bugs and no sign of any fixes that don't come from the parts of the community who actually care about the game being playable. As an aside, if you're a developer and you or your company considers bug reports to be 'spam', I'd love to know where you work so I can never buy any of their products. On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 17:40:15 -, Mike Stiehm mikesti...@gmail.com wrote: It's like talking to a brick wall.. Let them spam the list with their complaints and hate mail for valve. Just sit back like I do and watch them all talk to themselves. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer!
The thing with CS1.6 players is this: If/when Valve does fix bugs and exploits in that title, the fans basically raise high hell over it. So hopefully Valve fixes things up in the more modern titles before every player becomes CS-esque and actually enjoys playing and using the bugs on a regular basis. Shawn P. Zipay Site Director Total Gaming Network -- http://www.totalgamingnetwork.com MyInternetServices -- http://www.myinternetservices.com CS-Nation -- http://www.csnation.net On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 6:44 AM, Daniel Duarte dfdua...@gmail.com wrote: I see this going like it was with CS 1.6. A game that is played competitively in front of very large audiences for thousands of dollars prize purses and even that didn't made Valve fix a lot of well known bugs. TF2 and L4D are still in development, if Valve thinks its worth to fix the bugs they will do it, if not learn to live with it like 1.6 players do. [ ]'s Daniel Duarte On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 10:36 PM, Neil Voutt mr.neosty...@gmail.com wrote: Mike. You only look like a troll. LOL 3 Neil Voutt http://www.neilvoutt.com Sent from my iPhone On 6-Jan-09, at 6:16 PM, Mike Stiehm mikesti...@gmail.com wrote: You must be new to this list... LOL I'm done with this also.. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of David Kellaway Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 11:50 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! This is fairly obviously an unconstructive troll, but it also does a nice job of summing up why the situation is ridiculous - valve really couldn't care less about perfectly valid complaints about their game being broken as all hell. They don't even reply to the list with we're looking at this or this will be fixed in build x, there's just endless complaints about bugs and no sign of any fixes that don't come from the parts of the community who actually care about the game being playable. As an aside, if you're a developer and you or your company considers bug reports to be 'spam', I'd love to know where you work so I can never buy any of their products. On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 17:40:15 -, Mike Stiehm mikesti...@gmail.com wrote: It's like talking to a brick wall.. Let them spam the list with their complaints and hate mail for valve. Just sit back like I do and watch them all talk to themselves. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer!
The difference is the bugs with CS1.6 are not game killing. The map change bug where it times everyone out that ends a server pretty quick especially L4D. Other ones in L4D like the spawning of countless hunters and other special infected also kill the game since you can't win against it. So there are big differences. Shawn Zipay wrote: The thing with CS1.6 players is this: If/when Valve does fix bugs and exploits in that title, the fans basically raise high hell over it. So hopefully Valve fixes things up in the more modern titles before every player becomes CS-esque and actually enjoys playing and using the bugs on a regular basis. Shawn P. Zipay Site Director Total Gaming Network -- http://www.totalgamingnetwork.com MyInternetServices -- http://www.myinternetservices.com CS-Nation -- http://www.csnation.net On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 6:44 AM, Daniel Duarte dfdua...@gmail.com wrote: I see this going like it was with CS 1.6. A game that is played competitively in front of very large audiences for thousands of dollars prize purses and even that didn't made Valve fix a lot of well known bugs. TF2 and L4D are still in development, if Valve thinks its worth to fix the bugs they will do it, if not learn to live with it like 1.6 players do. [ ]'s Daniel Duarte On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 10:36 PM, Neil Voutt mr.neosty...@gmail.com wrote: Mike. You only look like a troll. LOL 3 Neil Voutt http://www.neilvoutt.com Sent from my iPhone On 6-Jan-09, at 6:16 PM, Mike Stiehm mikesti...@gmail.com wrote: You must be new to this list... LOL I'm done with this also.. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of David Kellaway Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 11:50 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! This is fairly obviously an unconstructive troll, but it also does a nice job of summing up why the situation is ridiculous - valve really couldn't care less about perfectly valid complaints about their game being broken as all hell. They don't even reply to the list with we're looking at this or this will be fixed in build x, there's just endless complaints about bugs and no sign of any fixes that don't come from the parts of the community who actually care about the game being playable. As an aside, if you're a developer and you or your company considers bug reports to be 'spam', I'd love to know where you work so I can never buy any of their products. On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 17:40:15 -, Mike Stiehm mikesti...@gmail.com wrote: It's like talking to a brick wall.. Let them spam the list with their complaints and hate mail for valve. Just sit back like I do and watch them all talk to themselves. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer!
I agree. Kveri Blood Letter wrote / napísal(a): If Valve completely ignores server operators who provide free servers, without which their games would be useless, they suck. If Valve lets long standing bugs, exploits, and security issues go unattended while focusing only on the latest content update + free weekend, they clearly prioritize sales over customers. I don't know about Valve's office, but if something goes wrong with a system at my office, even on Christmas day, we respond to it, and come into the office if necessary. If there are fires wreaking havoc with the power grid and people are being evacuated from their homes, we coordinate to make sure our servers are backed up, the backups are offsite, and the servers are safe. If someone at Valve wants a break, they can take vacation days. Do they only have 3 guys, and each only does 1 thing? I hope not. Any company worth it's salt knows you need redundancy in your mind share. Valve IS ignoring this list, by not replying. They get torn apart because they never respond to important issues, they're always late, and they never, EVER, provide clear and complete answers, let alone any semblance of documentation. Even if I were a child, I would still be a paying customer. If you're saying Valve gets a pass because gaming is not a priority in life, then you don't understand a single thing about having a job. If your job is to make games, you do that. If your job is to deliver mail, you do that. Working in a particular job sector does not give you the right to slack off. If Valve fixes everything and provides complete and correct documentation, then they get support and sales. Going from an F to an A doesn't change the fact that you still had an F. No one is treating Valve like shit. We are simply demanding we get some support, some documentation, and some communication. We get none of those things. Being a customer DOES give you the right to expect a certain level of quality and service from the business you are patronizing. If Valve's priorities continue to diverge from what so many of us expect, that's fine. They'll just lose our money and our support. Let's be clear here - server admins are supporting Valve, not the other way around. I'm sorry I can't apply for a job at Valve, I already have a job of my own. I can't be programming for everyone in the world, can I? Regardless, I wouldn't want to work in an office where a complete lack of customer support gets a passing grade. Valve's lack of support and communication is indefensible to anyone with even a remote knowledge of programming and software development. Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 11:12:41 -0500 From: richard@gmail.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! If Valve doesn't do everything we say, they suck. If Valve doesn't fix everything now, they suck. If Valve doesn't kiss our asses every second of every day, they suck. They don't care, they won't fix this, they refuse to fix that. All they want is our money. You all sound like a broken record. And worse than that, you have no lives outside of this thing we have here. Did anyone stop to think that since they all busted their asses for who knows how long getting Left 4 Dead out the door, while providing updates to TF2 the whole time, that maybe...just maybe, they'd want to take a break for a little while during the holidays? You know...so they could spend time with their families. Honestly, since release of TOB, there have been a relentless amount of updates to their products. In the time that has passed from TOB until now, the only people being neglected were probably most of the families of Valve employees. Does anyone feel they deserve a little break? They're ignoring us? Really? You think so? Does anyone here subscribe to HLCoders? A little civility goes a long way. In my opinion, Valve isn't ignoring this list, they just don't want to reply. I swear, this list = SPUF sometimes. Any two words they say are held against them forever. I know that a lot of kids subscribe to this list, so it would be difficult for a lot of you to understand, but there is such a thing as priorities in life. Gaming is not as high on that list once you have a family to take care of and a boss to answer to. And you are not the boss of anyone at Valve. Valve knows about the problems, obviously. You all keep saying the same things over and over. Give them a break. Just because you didn't have anything to do for the past couple of weeks doesn't mean they had to sit around and hop on every little problem we have. What happens when updates are released to address the current existing issues? Are you going to apologize for acting like a bunch of assholes or are you going to feel stupid for saying things like, Valve doesn't care about their games anymore? Wait...I
Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer!
I bet they dont even read this any more given all the threads like this. Even after we were all asked very nicely to desist. Can we please turn this into a moderated forum. On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 7:08 PM, Blood Letter bw_bloodlet...@hotmail.comwrote: Yeah, let's bend over and take, while still supporting them From: mikesti...@gmail.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 00:50:56 -0600 Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! Thank you.. Really month after month it's the same complaints about Valve yet month after month nothing changes.. We really don't need 15 people saying the same thing over and over and over... I understand that this is a serious issue and it was brought up I just don't see what complaining over and over about the same thing will do? I'm with you guys I'm just sick of the same emails just from a different person day after day. I would like this list to get back to helping people with the issues that was can address without valve... -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Aaron Rapp Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 11:51 PM To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list' Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! Hi SakeFox, I don't think that this is the place to post this. Again, this mailing list is for information exchanging between server admins. It would be best if you posted about your concern on a Valve forum. In light of that fact that others will post on this subject here, and I can't prevent thatI will say the following: Secondly, you should realize that it is just about every company's policy to not admit fault. For a company the size of Valve, this is essential. It keeps the amount of negative feedback from reviewers and writers alike, down to a minimum...which gives the rest of us the illusion of a good company. Let me assure of thisthey are listening. They take everything we say here or elsewhere and it gets put into an excel spreadsheet. In their weekly meetings, they discuss each item and prioritize it. Unfortunately, their position on each item might be different from yours and yours may be different from mine. One thing you learn very quickly, in this business, is that you will never make everyone happy. You have to make the most of the resources you have at the moment. That's all I can say on that. I hope you understand. It's hard to see the entire other side of the river until you're actually standing over there. Regards, Aaron Rapp -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of SakeFox Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 9:34 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! I posted this in another thread, but it wouldn't be good to steal it or really bring that thread down so i thought i would just make a new one. I don't know how many people will post in this or if it will go anywhere, but it's time to make a post to tell valve how we feel. I used to defend and help them, but now it's almost like what's the point. quoted from other post you guys haven't realized yet that valve has stopped caring about there games? We have been waiting for over a month for a fix for tf2 hell there are still some bugs from the beta that they still haven't fixed. I used to monitor my little bug list in the forums, but patch after patch maybe only 2-3 bugs would actually get fixed i started to realize valve doesn't give a crap about how there games run and that became overly noticed when they refuse to fix the map change error in TF2 and L4D. Valve will not reply to your issue nor do they care. they will not reply to us about any other bug. just give up ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds _ It's the same Hotmail(R). If by same you mean up to 70% faster. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_broad1_122008 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer!
i ask valve add hud message display back into Counter-Strike Source about 1 year, they haven't do anything, just add few line into ClientScheme.res, how difficult? but Team Fortress 2 include hud message display, why Counter-Strike Source can't, is it fair? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer!
Yes it is fair if you have to ask. Do you know how much developers get paid? - It wouldn't be worth the money for them to pay one developer to work on this for an hour just so you can have something that was never in the release. You have paid for CS:S (hopefully) its provided 'as-is' anything extra that valve decides to add is a bonus. People have gone this long without extras in cs:s why should they change something now, just so you can bitch that there is something wrong with the new functionality. 2009/1/6 raydan rayda...@gmail.com i ask valve add hud message display back into Counter-Strike Source about 1 year, they haven't do anything, just add few line into ClientScheme.res, how difficult? but Team Fortress 2 include hud message display, why Counter-Strike Source can't, is it fair? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer!
ya, HUD display something wrong in CS:S, but not in TF2 and HL2:DM something wrong in old engine(HL2:DM,CS:S)? something wrong in famous game(CS:S)? if valve remove HUD display COMPLETELY from server side client side forever, i want to see how many plugin will die and i never say HUD display again. i don't think valve will do that. 2009/1/6 Olly oli...@gmail.com Yes it is fair if you have to ask. Do you know how much developers get paid? - It wouldn't be worth the money for them to pay one developer to work on this for an hour just so you can have something that was never in the release. You have paid for CS:S (hopefully) its provided 'as-is' anything extra that valve decides to add is a bonus. People have gone this long without extras in cs:s why should they change something now, just so you can bitch that there is something wrong with the new functionality. 2009/1/6 raydan rayda...@gmail.com i ask valve add hud message display back into Counter-Strike Source about 1 year, they haven't do anything, just add few line into ClientScheme.res, how difficult? but Team Fortress 2 include hud message display, why Counter-Strike Source can't, is it fair? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer!
Well said Richard! I really wouldnt be suprised if we got an almighty mother of an update to l4d fairly soon! On 1/6/09, Richard Eid richard@gmail.com wrote: If Valve doesn't do everything we say, they suck. If Valve doesn't fix everything now, they suck. If Valve doesn't kiss our asses every second of every day, they suck. They don't care, they won't fix this, they refuse to fix that. All they want is our money. You all sound like a broken record. And worse than that, you have no lives outside of this thing we have here. Did anyone stop to think that since they all busted their asses for who knows how long getting Left 4 Dead out the door, while providing updates to TF2 the whole time, that maybe...just maybe, they'd want to take a break for a little while during the holidays? You know...so they could spend time with their families. Honestly, since release of TOB, there have been a relentless amount of updates to their products. In the time that has passed from TOB until now, the only people being neglected were probably most of the families of Valve employees. Does anyone feel they deserve a little break? They're ignoring us? Really? You think so? Does anyone here subscribe to HLCoders? A little civility goes a long way. In my opinion, Valve isn't ignoring this list, they just don't want to reply. I swear, this list = SPUF sometimes. Any two words they say are held against them forever. I know that a lot of kids subscribe to this list, so it would be difficult for a lot of you to understand, but there is such a thing as priorities in life. Gaming is not as high on that list once you have a family to take care of and a boss to answer to. And you are not the boss of anyone at Valve. Valve knows about the problems, obviously. You all keep saying the same things over and over. Give them a break. Just because you didn't have anything to do for the past couple of weeks doesn't mean they had to sit around and hop on every little problem we have. What happens when updates are released to address the current existing issues? Are you going to apologize for acting like a bunch of assholes or are you going to feel stupid for saying things like, Valve doesn't care about their games anymore? Wait...I know. 90% of you will say, Finally. 5% won't be happy no matter what. 4% will bring up another issue that Valve is ignoring. And 1% will say, Thank you. Yes, we paid money for the game. But $50 does not give you the right to treat the people trying to help you like shit. Sometimes the problems that you claim are easy fixes may not be so easy to fix. And since most of you know for a fact that it's an easy fix, there's always j...@valvesoftware.com . Grow up. They are aware of the problems. Like Aaron said, there are your priorities and then there are business priorities. Just because the issues high on your list may not be high on theirs doesn't mean they're ignoring you. But then, it would be stupid of me to assume that most of you would understand any of that, especially given your attitudes over the past few months. -Richard Eid ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer!
The problem is that they add more bugs than they fix, I don't think they test updates at all. It sad since TF2 was so polished in beta and then there has been a lot of half bad changes and a bunch of bugs. Some examples: Since the recent engi update: *Flame/backburn attack animation never stops unless you switch weapon so it looks like you are running around with a big vibrator. Very annoying and I don't understand how these problems can get in the game, shipped and then not even fixed. Same for the other pyro bug below. *Teleporters looks like they are still working when the exit is destroyed. *The killcam sound is often missing and the game does not go quiet while showing it anymore. Since big pyro update: *Pyro animation never starts at the class selection screen. He is just standing there. How could you guys not have seen this for so long? *All primary weapon unlocks (even in heavy and medic update) got really ugly models. No, I'm not talking about the design. I play the game at the highest settings and mat_picmip -3 and the game is BEAUTIFUL, except for the bb, kk and slowgun (in that order) that look HORRIBLE. While this is probably not technically a bug I consider it as one because it drags the game down. Since big heavy update: *Sandvich taunts do not play unless you spam voice commands while the animation plays. *When you are killed in the final cart explosion an (random?) enemy will often get an assist or kill on you (I don't know which) and you see a killcam up in the air that shows… nothing at all. Since somewhere on the road: *A real showstopper; fake crits. I get more fake crits than I get real crits. I think it only happen with hitscan weapons and it happens all the time for heavy's and I mean all the time. It looks and sounds just like crits, but there is no critical hit text above the enemies. It is so bad I actually get happily surprised when playing heavy and people actually die when I crit. It only applies to random crits, kk it not affected. *And another really bad problem: Ambient sounds play when it should not. Often happens when you die or spawn for the first time. Playing Well while listening to the BLIP BLIP BLIP from the computers above the flag/final point at full volume everywhere on the map will drive anyone mad. Only fix is to rejoin or use snd_restart, but how many players know that? Besides it has bad side effects, like removing the sounds completely or making them play at other places where they should not be. *And a third one: Problems caused by lag. Mostly invisible players and cart indication goes away. Actually, the cart indicator ALWAYS goes away, you are very lucky if you can play a whole game of goldrush without losing it because every time there is a new round there is a high risk it will disappear. Only workaround is to rejoin or start recording a demo (!) because it apparently sync the game again or something, something that TF2 should be doing by itself anyway. To name a few... On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 6:34 AM, SakeFox sake...@kingdomsend.com wrote: I posted this in another thread, but it wouldn't be good to steal it or really bring that thread down so i thought i would just make a new one. I don't know how many people will post in this or if it will go anywhere, but it's time to make a post to tell valve how we feel. I used to defend and help them, but now it's almost like what's the point. quoted from other post you guys haven't realized yet that valve has stopped caring about there games? We have been waiting for over a month for a fix for tf2 hell there are still some bugs from the beta that they still haven't fixed. I used to monitor my little bug list in the forums, but patch after patch maybe only 2-3 bugs would actually get fixed i started to realize valve doesn't give a crap about how there games run and that became overly noticed when they refuse to fix the map change error in TF2 and L4D. Valve will not reply to your issue nor do they care. they will not reply to us about any other bug. just give up ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer!
Now THAT is what I consider Well said. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Blood Letter Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 11:50 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! If Valve completely ignores server operators who provide free servers, without which their games would be useless, they suck. If Valve lets long standing bugs, exploits, and security issues go unattended while focusing only on the latest content update + free weekend, they clearly prioritize sales over customers. I don't know about Valve's office, but if something goes wrong with a system at my office, even on Christmas day, we respond to it, and come into the office if necessary. If there are fires wreaking havoc with the power grid and people are being evacuated from their homes, we coordinate to make sure our servers are backed up, the backups are offsite, and the servers are safe. If someone at Valve wants a break, they can take vacation days. Do they only have 3 guys, and each only does 1 thing? I hope not. Any company worth it's salt knows you need redundancy in your mind share. Valve IS ignoring this list, by not replying. They get torn apart because they never respond to important issues, they're always late, and they never, EVER, provide clear and complete answers, let alone any semblance of documentation. Even if I were a child, I would still be a paying customer. If you're saying Valve gets a pass because gaming is not a priority in life, then you don't understand a single thing about having a job. If your job is to make games, you do that. If your job is to deliver mail, you do that. Working in a particular job sector does not give you the right to slack off. If Valve fixes everything and provides complete and correct documentation, then they get support and sales. Going from an F to an A doesn't change the fact that you still had an F. No one is treating Valve like shit. We are simply demanding we get some support, some documentation, and some communication. We get none of those things. Being a customer DOES give you the right to expect a certain level of quality and service from the business you are patronizing. If Valve's priorities continue to diverge from what so many of us expect, that's fine. They'll just lose our money and our support. Let's be clear here - server admins are supporting Valve, not the other way around. I'm sorry I can't apply for a job at Valve, I already have a job of my own. I can't be programming for everyone in the world, can I? Regardless, I wouldn't want to work in an office where a complete lack of customer support gets a passing grade. Valve's lack of support and communication is indefensible to anyone with even a remote knowledge of programming and software development. Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 11:12:41 -0500 From: richard@gmail.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! If Valve doesn't do everything we say, they suck. If Valve doesn't fix everything now, they suck. If Valve doesn't kiss our asses every second of every day, they suck. They don't care, they won't fix this, they refuse to fix that. All they want is our money. You all sound like a broken record. And worse than that, you have no lives outside of this thing we have here. Did anyone stop to think that since they all busted their asses for who knows how long getting Left 4 Dead out the door, while providing updates to TF2 the whole time, that maybe...just maybe, they'd want to take a break for a little while during the holidays? You know...so they could spend time with their families. Honestly, since release of TOB, there have been a relentless amount of updates to their products. In the time that has passed from TOB until now, the only people being neglected were probably most of the families of Valve employees. Does anyone feel they deserve a little break? They're ignoring us? Really? You think so? Does anyone here subscribe to HLCoders? A little civility goes a long way. In my opinion, Valve isn't ignoring this list, they just don't want to reply. I swear, this list = SPUF sometimes. Any two words they say are held against them forever. I know that a lot of kids subscribe to this list, so it would be difficult for a lot of you to understand, but there is such a thing as priorities in life. Gaming is not as high on that list once you have a family to take care of and a boss to answer to. And you are not the boss of anyone at Valve. Valve knows about the problems, obviously. You all keep saying the same things over and over. Give them a break. Just because you didn't have anything to do for the past couple of weeks doesn't mean they had to sit around and hop on every little problem we have. What happens when updates
Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer!
I work at a very large corporation that I bet everyone here has heard of (and uses products of ours) as a software engineer.. and I have just come back from my 2 week Christmas vacation. Why should valve work over Christmas? What makes them different? Just because McDonalds and KFC are open over the holidays doesn't mean every other place should be. To have people in during holidays, you have to pay again for heating, wages, etc. You bought the game 'as-is' valve are not expected to fix anything. It would of course be nice if they did, but they are no-way legally bound to do Anything more to it. 2009/1/6 Blood Letter bw_bloodlet...@hotmail.com If Valve completely ignores server operators who provide free servers, without which their games would be useless, they suck. If Valve lets long standing bugs, exploits, and security issues go unattended while focusing only on the latest content update + free weekend, they clearly prioritize sales over customers. I don't know about Valve's office, but if something goes wrong with a system at my office, even on Christmas day, we respond to it, and come into the office if necessary. If there are fires wreaking havoc with the power grid and people are being evacuated from their homes, we coordinate to make sure our servers are backed up, the backups are offsite, and the servers are safe. If someone at Valve wants a break, they can take vacation days. Do they only have 3 guys, and each only does 1 thing? I hope not. Any company worth it's salt knows you need redundancy in your mind share. Valve IS ignoring this list, by not replying. They get torn apart because they never respond to important issues, they're always late, and they never, EVER, provide clear and complete answers, let alone any semblance of documentation. Even if I were a child, I would still be a paying customer. If you're saying Valve gets a pass because gaming is not a priority in life, then you don't understand a single thing about having a job. If your job is to make games, you do that. If your job is to deliver mail, you do that. Working in a particular job sector does not give you the right to slack off. If Valve fixes everything and provides complete and correct documentation, then they get support and sales. Going from an F to an A doesn't change the fact that you still had an F. No one is treating Valve like shit. We are simply demanding we get some support, some documentation, and some communication. We get none of those things. Being a customer DOES give you the right to expect a certain level of quality and service from the business you are patronizing. If Valve's priorities continue to diverge from what so many of us expect, that's fine. They'll just lose our money and our support. Let's be clear here - server admins are supporting Valve, not the other way around. I'm sorry I can't apply for a job at Valve, I already have a job of my own. I can't be programming for everyone in the world, can I? Regardless, I wouldn't want to work in an office where a complete lack of customer support gets a passing grade. Valve's lack of support and communication is indefensible to anyone with even a remote knowledge of programming and software development. Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 11:12:41 -0500 From: richard@gmail.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! If Valve doesn't do everything we say, they suck. If Valve doesn't fix everything now, they suck. If Valve doesn't kiss our asses every second of every day, they suck. They don't care, they won't fix this, they refuse to fix that. All they want is our money. You all sound like a broken record. And worse than that, you have no lives outside of this thing we have here. Did anyone stop to think that since they all busted their asses for who knows how long getting Left 4 Dead out the door, while providing updates to TF2 the whole time, that maybe...just maybe, they'd want to take a break for a little while during the holidays? You know...so they could spend time with their families. Honestly, since release of TOB, there have been a relentless amount of updates to their products. In the time that has passed from TOB until now, the only people being neglected were probably most of the families of Valve employees. Does anyone feel they deserve a little break? They're ignoring us? Really? You think so? Does anyone here subscribe to HLCoders? A little civility goes a long way. In my opinion, Valve isn't ignoring this list, they just don't want to reply. I swear, this list = SPUF sometimes. Any two words they say are held against them forever. I know that a lot of kids subscribe to this list, so it would be difficult for a lot of you to understand, but there is such a thing as priorities in life. Gaming is not as high on that list once you have a family
Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer!
it's been basically treated as the norm that it's russian roulette with any update or game release. they keep pushing server files without testing them and we suffer for it. i can't count the number of times after a tf2 update that servers would work because of the server update. Look at the game launches TF2 linux binaries didn't work for hours and L4D windows binaries didn't work for hours. Is the next game just going to have broken binaries for both servers? Is it really that hard to test something before you make it live. This happens all the time and getting more frequent. Karl Weckstrom wrote: Now THAT is what I consider Well said. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Blood Letter Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 11:50 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! If Valve completely ignores server operators who provide free servers, without which their games would be useless, they suck. If Valve lets long standing bugs, exploits, and security issues go unattended while focusing only on the latest content update + free weekend, they clearly prioritize sales over customers. I don't know about Valve's office, but if something goes wrong with a system at my office, even on Christmas day, we respond to it, and come into the office if necessary. If there are fires wreaking havoc with the power grid and people are being evacuated from their homes, we coordinate to make sure our servers are backed up, the backups are offsite, and the servers are safe. If someone at Valve wants a break, they can take vacation days. Do they only have 3 guys, and each only does 1 thing? I hope not. Any company worth it's salt knows you need redundancy in your mind share. Valve IS ignoring this list, by not replying. They get torn apart because they never respond to important issues, they're always late, and they never, EVER, provide clear and complete answers, let alone any semblance of documentation. Even if I were a child, I would still be a paying customer. If you're saying Valve gets a pass because gaming is not a priority in life, then you don't understand a single thing about having a job. If your job is to make games, you do that. If your job is to deliver mail, you do that. Working in a particular job sector does not give you the right to slack off. If Valve fixes everything and provides complete and correct documentation, then they get support and sales. Going from an F to an A doesn't change the fact that you still had an F. No one is treating Valve like shit. We are simply demanding we get some support, some documentation, and some communication. We get none of those things. Being a customer DOES give you the right to expect a certain level of quality and service from the business you are patronizing. If Valve's priorities continue to diverge from what so many of us expect, that's fine. They'll just lose our money and our support. Let's be clear here - server admins are supporting Valve, not the other way around. I'm sorry I can't apply for a job at Valve, I already have a job of my own. I can't be programming for everyone in the world, can I? Regardless, I wouldn't want to work in an office where a complete lack of customer support gets a passing grade. Valve's lack of support and communication is indefensible to anyone with even a remote knowledge of programming and software development. Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 11:12:41 -0500 From: richard@gmail.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! If Valve doesn't do everything we say, they suck. If Valve doesn't fix everything now, they suck. If Valve doesn't kiss our asses every second of every day, they suck. They don't care, they won't fix this, they refuse to fix that. All they want is our money. You all sound like a broken record. And worse than that, you have no lives outside of this thing we have here. Did anyone stop to think that since they all busted their asses for who knows how long getting Left 4 Dead out the door, while providing updates to TF2 the whole time, that maybe...just maybe, they'd want to take a break for a little while during the holidays? You know...so they could spend time with their families. Honestly, since release of TOB, there have been a relentless amount of updates to their products. In the time that has passed from TOB until now, the only people being neglected were probably most of the families of Valve employees. Does anyone feel they deserve a little break? They're ignoring us? Really? You think so? Does anyone here subscribe to HLCoders? A little civility goes a long way. In my opinion, Valve isn't ignoring this list, they just don't want to reply. I swear, this list = SPUF sometimes. Any
Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer!
I do agree with you. It's just plain silly that they don't have a proper beta program to test their code or something like it. I know tons of people who'd be more then willing to participate AND give constructive feedback. Also it's just plain silly that we have to put up an advert every couple of minutes to attend people on the fact that if you get a timeout at map change, you should rejoin the server and that this issue is caused by badly working Steam servers. It's been weeks now we suffer these programs. Even for a 'Best effort SLA' this would be looking very, very poor. Saint K. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of SakeFox Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 6:04 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! it's been basically treated as the norm that it's russian roulette with any update or game release. they keep pushing server files without testing them and we suffer for it. i can't count the number of times after a tf2 update that servers would work because of the server update. Look at the game launches TF2 linux binaries didn't work for hours and L4D windows binaries didn't work for hours. Is the next game just going to have broken binaries for both servers? Is it really that hard to test something before you make it live. This happens all the time and getting more frequent. Karl Weckstrom wrote: Now THAT is what I consider Well said. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Blood Letter Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 11:50 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! If Valve completely ignores server operators who provide free servers, without which their games would be useless, they suck. If Valve lets long standing bugs, exploits, and security issues go unattended while focusing only on the latest content update + free weekend, they clearly prioritize sales over customers. I don't know about Valve's office, but if something goes wrong with a system at my office, even on Christmas day, we respond to it, and come into the office if necessary. If there are fires wreaking havoc with the power grid and people are being evacuated from their homes, we coordinate to make sure our servers are backed up, the backups are offsite, and the servers are safe. If someone at Valve wants a break, they can take vacation days. Do they only have 3 guys, and each only does 1 thing? I hope not. Any company worth it's salt knows you need redundancy in your mind share. Valve IS ignoring this list, by not replying. They get torn apart because they never respond to important issues, they're always late, and they never, EVER, provide clear and complete answers, let alone any semblance of documentation. Even if I were a child, I would still be a paying customer. If you're saying Valve gets a pass because gaming is not a priority in life, then you don't understand a single thing about having a job. If your job is to make games, you do that. If your job is to deliver mail, you do that. Working in a particular job sector does not give you the right to slack off. If Valve fixes everything and provides complete and correct documentation, then they get support and sales. Going from an F to an A doesn't change the fact that you still had an F. No one is treating Valve like shit. We are simply demanding we get some support, some documentation, and some communication. We get none of those things. Being a customer DOES give you the right to expect a certain level of quality and service from the business you are patronizing. If Valve's priorities continue to diverge from what so many of us expect, that's fine. They'll just lose our money and our support. Let's be clear here - server admins are supporting Valve, not the other way around. I'm sorry I can't apply for a job at Valve, I already have a job of my own. I can't be programming for everyone in the world, can I? Regardless, I wouldn't want to work in an office where a complete lack of customer support gets a passing grade. Valve's lack of support and communication is indefensible to anyone with even a remote knowledge of programming and software development. Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 11:12:41 -0500 From: richard@gmail.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! If Valve doesn't do everything we say, they suck. If Valve doesn't fix everything now, they suck. If Valve doesn't kiss our asses every second of every day, they suck. They don't care, they won't fix this, they refuse to fix that. All they want is our money. You all sound like a broken record. And worse than that, you have no lives outside of this thing we have here. Did anyone stop to think that since
Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer!
If you had ANY remote idea of how many hardware/os configurations there are out there that could cause problems, you would be a little more lenient. While some of valve's releases have been a little too buggy for anyones liking, i'm sure that they test things as much as they can before release, why would they want to let them selves be known for this sort of thing. If valve took a day to fix a release for L4D for example, you sound exactly like the type of person who would spend time, opening up his email client, and writing another rant about how much valve fails for not releasing on time. 2009/1/6 SakeFox sake...@kingdomsend.com it's been basically treated as the norm that it's russian roulette with any update or game release. they keep pushing server files without testing them and we suffer for it. i can't count the number of times after a tf2 update that servers would work because of the server update. Look at the game launches TF2 linux binaries didn't work for hours and L4D windows binaries didn't work for hours. Is the next game just going to have broken binaries for both servers? Is it really that hard to test something before you make it live. This happens all the time and getting more frequent. Karl Weckstrom wrote: Now THAT is what I consider Well said. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Blood Letter Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 11:50 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! If Valve completely ignores server operators who provide free servers, without which their games would be useless, they suck. If Valve lets long standing bugs, exploits, and security issues go unattended while focusing only on the latest content update + free weekend, they clearly prioritize sales over customers. I don't know about Valve's office, but if something goes wrong with a system at my office, even on Christmas day, we respond to it, and come into the office if necessary. If there are fires wreaking havoc with the power grid and people are being evacuated from their homes, we coordinate to make sure our servers are backed up, the backups are offsite, and the servers are safe. If someone at Valve wants a break, they can take vacation days. Do they only have 3 guys, and each only does 1 thing? I hope not. Any company worth it's salt knows you need redundancy in your mind share. Valve IS ignoring this list, by not replying. They get torn apart because they never respond to important issues, they're always late, and they never, EVER, provide clear and complete answers, let alone any semblance of documentation. Even if I were a child, I would still be a paying customer. If you're saying Valve gets a pass because gaming is not a priority in life, then you don't understand a single thing about having a job. If your job is to make games, you do that. If your job is to deliver mail, you do that. Working in a particular job sector does not give you the right to slack off. If Valve fixes everything and provides complete and correct documentation, then they get support and sales. Going from an F to an A doesn't change the fact that you still had an F. No one is treating Valve like shit. We are simply demanding we get some support, some documentation, and some communication. We get none of those things. Being a customer DOES give you the right to expect a certain level of quality and service from the business you are patronizing. If Valve's priorities continue to diverge from what so many of us expect, that's fine. They'll just lose our money and our support. Let's be clear here - server admins are supporting Valve, not the other way around. I'm sorry I can't apply for a job at Valve, I already have a job of my own. I can't be programming for everyone in the world, can I? Regardless, I wouldn't want to work in an office where a complete lack of customer support gets a passing grade. Valve's lack of support and communication is indefensible to anyone with even a remote knowledge of programming and software development. Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 11:12:41 -0500 From: richard@gmail.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! If Valve doesn't do everything we say, they suck. If Valve doesn't fix everything now, they suck. If Valve doesn't kiss our asses every second of every day, they suck. They don't care, they won't fix this, they refuse to fix that. All they want is our money. You all sound like a broken record. And worse than that, you have no lives outside of this thing we have here. Did anyone stop to think that since they all busted their asses for who knows how long getting Left 4 Dead out the door, while providing updates to TF2 the whole time, that maybe...just maybe
Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer!
Comments about working over Christmas are hardly reasonable in this case. We're paying customers, who pay additional money to support other paying customers' ability to play the game. Since the game launched the Sourcemod team have ported their API to L4D's engine and I've written plugins to fix most of the bugs and exploits, all on the unpaid time of volunteers. Valve are being *paid* to code the game, and the support just isn't there. If I shipped a product to a customer in this kind of state, I'd probably be fired. Valve have been seriously dropping in quality of late with regards to timeliness of bugfixes, response to communication, etc. Left 4 Dead in particular strikes me as an extremely lazy, rushed title - there's a large number of exploits, half of the maps are unfinished (not available in Versus mode), and servers repeatedly revert to the wrong game mode. There's also crap like the L4D beta having no way to allow private servers (and the current system, Steam group servers, is seriously broken as provided, and doesn't work for half my users) which shows an increasing disinterest in anything beyond getting cash in the bank from game sales. -Dave ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer!
When talking about server binaries, you've got your OS and your CPU. Any system configuration issues are understandable. (For example, if Norton broke the server.) Seems to me the x86 instruction set + listed-as-supported linux/windows kernel versions provide only a dozen or so combinations. If you didn't test on said hardware+os, don't list it as supported. But the fact is we know the issues with the server code, and the client code, are not due to configuration differences, as they are experienced by all, and are repeatable. Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 17:12:15 + From: oli...@gmail.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! If you had ANY remote idea of how many hardware/os configurations there are out there that could cause problems, you would be a little more lenient. While some of valve's releases have been a little too buggy for anyones liking, i'm sure that they test things as much as they can before release, why would they want to let them selves be known for this sort of thing. If valve took a day to fix a release for L4D for example, you sound exactly like the type of person who would spend time, opening up his email client, and writing another rant about how much valve fails for not releasing on time. 2009/1/6 SakeFox sake...@kingdomsend.com it's been basically treated as the norm that it's russian roulette with any update or game release. they keep pushing server files without testing them and we suffer for it. i can't count the number of times after a tf2 update that servers would work because of the server update. Look at the game launches TF2 linux binaries didn't work for hours and L4D windows binaries didn't work for hours. Is the next game just going to have broken binaries for both servers? Is it really that hard to test something before you make it live. This happens all the time and getting more frequent. Karl Weckstrom wrote: Now THAT is what I consider Well said. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Blood Letter Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 11:50 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! If Valve completely ignores server operators who provide free servers, without which their games would be useless, they suck. If Valve lets long standing bugs, exploits, and security issues go unattended while focusing only on the latest content update + free weekend, they clearly prioritize sales over customers. I don't know about Valve's office, but if something goes wrong with a system at my office, even on Christmas day, we respond to it, and come into the office if necessary. If there are fires wreaking havoc with the power grid and people are being evacuated from their homes, we coordinate to make sure our servers are backed up, the backups are offsite, and the servers are safe. If someone at Valve wants a break, they can take vacation days. Do they only have 3 guys, and each only does 1 thing? I hope not. Any company worth it's salt knows you need redundancy in your mind share. Valve IS ignoring this list, by not replying. They get torn apart because they never respond to important issues, they're always late, and they never, EVER, provide clear and complete answers, let alone any semblance of documentation. Even if I were a child, I would still be a paying customer. If you're saying Valve gets a pass because gaming is not a priority in life, then you don't understand a single thing about having a job. If your job is to make games, you do that. If your job is to deliver mail, you do that. Working in a particular job sector does not give you the right to slack off. If Valve fixes everything and provides complete and correct documentation, then they get support and sales. Going from an F to an A doesn't change the fact that you still had an F. No one is treating Valve like shit. We are simply demanding we get some support, some documentation, and some communication. We get none of those things. Being a customer DOES give you the right to expect a certain level of quality and service from the business you are patronizing. If Valve's priorities continue to diverge from what so many of us expect, that's fine. They'll just lose our money and our support. Let's be clear here - server admins are supporting Valve, not the other way around. I'm sorry I can't apply for a job at Valve, I already have a job of my own. I can't be programming for everyone in the world, can I? Regardless, I wouldn't want to work in an office where a complete lack of customer support gets a passing grade. Valve's lack of support and communication is indefensible to anyone with even a remote knowledge of programming
Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer!
At least my outlook rules get a workout ;) So many trash e-mails like this fill this mailing list up that I had to give this its own folder and rule. Pretty unbelievable that in about 1.5 months I have almost 2,000 messages from this list alone. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Mike Stiehm Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 11:40 AM To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list' Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! It's like talking to a brick wall.. Let them spam the list with their complaints and hate mail for valve. Just sit back like I do and watch them all talk to themselves. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Olly Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 11:01 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! I work at a very large corporation that I bet everyone here has heard of (and uses products of ours) as a software engineer.. and I have just come back from my 2 week Christmas vacation. Why should valve work over Christmas? What makes them different? Just because McDonalds and KFC are open over the holidays doesn't mean every other place should be. To have people in during holidays, you have to pay again for heating, wages, etc. You bought the game 'as-is' valve are not expected to fix anything. It would of course be nice if they did, but they are no-way legally bound to do Anything more to it. 2009/1/6 Blood Letter bw_bloodlet...@hotmail.com If Valve completely ignores server operators who provide free servers, without which their games would be useless, they suck. If Valve lets long standing bugs, exploits, and security issues go unattended while focusing only on the latest content update + free weekend, they clearly prioritize sales over customers. I don't know about Valve's office, but if something goes wrong with a system at my office, even on Christmas day, we respond to it, and come into the office if necessary. If there are fires wreaking havoc with the power grid and people are being evacuated from their homes, we coordinate to make sure our servers are backed up, the backups are offsite, and the servers are safe. If someone at Valve wants a break, they can take vacation days. Do they only have 3 guys, and each only does 1 thing? I hope not. Any company worth it's salt knows you need redundancy in your mind share. Valve IS ignoring this list, by not replying. They get torn apart because they never respond to important issues, they're always late, and they never, EVER, provide clear and complete answers, let alone any semblance of documentation. Even if I were a child, I would still be a paying customer. If you're saying Valve gets a pass because gaming is not a priority in life, then you don't understand a single thing about having a job. If your job is to make games, you do that. If your job is to deliver mail, you do that. Working in a particular job sector does not give you the right to slack off. If Valve fixes everything and provides complete and correct documentation, then they get support and sales. Going from an F to an A doesn't change the fact that you still had an F. No one is treating Valve like shit. We are simply demanding we get some support, some documentation, and some communication. We get none of those things. Being a customer DOES give you the right to expect a certain level of quality and service from the business you are patronizing. If Valve's priorities continue to diverge from what so many of us expect, that's fine. They'll just lose our money and our support. Let's be clear here - server admins are supporting Valve, not the other way around. I'm sorry I can't apply for a job at Valve, I already have a job of my own. I can't be programming for everyone in the world, can I? Regardless, I wouldn't want to work in an office where a complete lack of customer support gets a passing grade. Valve's lack of support and communication is indefensible to anyone with even a remote knowledge of programming and software development. Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 11:12:41 -0500 From: richard@gmail.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! If Valve doesn't do everything we say, they suck. If Valve doesn't fix everything now, they suck. If Valve doesn't kiss our asses every second of every day, they suck. They don't care, they won't fix this, they refuse to fix that. All they want is our money. You all sound like a broken record. And worse than that, you have no lives outside of this thing we have here. Did anyone stop to think that since they all busted their asses for who knows how long getting Left 4 Dead out the door, while providing updates to TF2
Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer!
This is fairly obviously an unconstructive troll, but it also does a nice job of summing up why the situation is ridiculous - valve really couldn't care less about perfectly valid complaints about their game being broken as all hell. They don't even reply to the list with we're looking at this or this will be fixed in build x, there's just endless complaints about bugs and no sign of any fixes that don't come from the parts of the community who actually care about the game being playable. As an aside, if you're a developer and you or your company considers bug reports to be 'spam', I'd love to know where you work so I can never buy any of their products. On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 17:40:15 -, Mike Stiehm mikesti...@gmail.com wrote: It's like talking to a brick wall.. Let them spam the list with their complaints and hate mail for valve. Just sit back like I do and watch them all talk to themselves. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer!
Kernel != Distribution Anyway I'm done with this. Have fun 2009/1/6 Blood Letter bw_bloodlet...@hotmail.com When talking about server binaries, you've got your OS and your CPU. Any system configuration issues are understandable. (For example, if Norton broke the server.) Seems to me the x86 instruction set + listed-as-supported linux/windows kernel versions provide only a dozen or so combinations. If you didn't test on said hardware+os, don't list it as supported. But the fact is we know the issues with the server code, and the client code, are not due to configuration differences, as they are experienced by all, and are repeatable. Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 17:12:15 + From: oli...@gmail.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! If you had ANY remote idea of how many hardware/os configurations there are out there that could cause problems, you would be a little more lenient. While some of valve's releases have been a little too buggy for anyones liking, i'm sure that they test things as much as they can before release, why would they want to let them selves be known for this sort of thing. If valve took a day to fix a release for L4D for example, you sound exactly like the type of person who would spend time, opening up his email client, and writing another rant about how much valve fails for not releasing on time. 2009/1/6 SakeFox sake...@kingdomsend.com it's been basically treated as the norm that it's russian roulette with any update or game release. they keep pushing server files without testing them and we suffer for it. i can't count the number of times after a tf2 update that servers would work because of the server update. Look at the game launches TF2 linux binaries didn't work for hours and L4D windows binaries didn't work for hours. Is the next game just going to have broken binaries for both servers? Is it really that hard to test something before you make it live. This happens all the time and getting more frequent. Karl Weckstrom wrote: Now THAT is what I consider Well said. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Blood Letter Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 11:50 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! If Valve completely ignores server operators who provide free servers, without which their games would be useless, they suck. If Valve lets long standing bugs, exploits, and security issues go unattended while focusing only on the latest content update + free weekend, they clearly prioritize sales over customers. I don't know about Valve's office, but if something goes wrong with a system at my office, even on Christmas day, we respond to it, and come into the office if necessary. If there are fires wreaking havoc with the power grid and people are being evacuated from their homes, we coordinate to make sure our servers are backed up, the backups are offsite, and the servers are safe. If someone at Valve wants a break, they can take vacation days. Do they only have 3 guys, and each only does 1 thing? I hope not. Any company worth it's salt knows you need redundancy in your mind share. Valve IS ignoring this list, by not replying. They get torn apart because they never respond to important issues, they're always late, and they never, EVER, provide clear and complete answers, let alone any semblance of documentation. Even if I were a child, I would still be a paying customer. If you're saying Valve gets a pass because gaming is not a priority in life, then you don't understand a single thing about having a job. If your job is to make games, you do that. If your job is to deliver mail, you do that. Working in a particular job sector does not give you the right to slack off. If Valve fixes everything and provides complete and correct documentation, then they get support and sales. Going from an F to an A doesn't change the fact that you still had an F. No one is treating Valve like shit. We are simply demanding we get some support, some documentation, and some communication. We get none of those things. Being a customer DOES give you the right to expect a certain level of quality and service from the business you are patronizing. If Valve's priorities continue to diverge from what so many of us expect, that's fine. They'll just lose our money and our support. Let's be clear here - server admins are supporting Valve, not the other way around. I'm sorry I can't apply for a job at Valve, I already have a job of my own. I can't be programming for everyone in the world, can I? Regardless, I
Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer!
David Kellaway wrote: As an aside, if you're a developer and you or your company considers bug reports to be 'spam', I'd love to know where you work so I can never buy any of their products. This is hardly a bug report. The List: OMG! THIS DOESN'T WORK!!!11!!! VALVE IS THE SUXXORS!!! Bug Report: Steps to Reproduce, Detailed Machine stats, dxdiag report, exact error message. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer!
They already have this from some 500 messages back. On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 2:13 PM, Leonard L. Church t...@mostdeadlygame.comwrote: Bug Report: Steps to Reproduce, Detailed Machine stats, dxdiag report, exact error message. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer!
Yes.. Like that.. But I can't get it to reproduce. I've actually haven't been dropped at all on servers that I play on (Mostly vanilla, but some with a few mods). So it's something else apparently. Actually, that leads me to believe it's the fault of some mod the person has installed on their server, but I may be wrong. So no. It's not as simple as you suspect. Blood Letter wrote: You mean like: Join a server. Wait for the map to change. Machine/Configuration: ANY Error message: Standard connection problem counter til timeout. Join a server. Be moved to a CircleX server. Machine/Configuration: ANY Error message: NONE Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 11:13:43 -0800 From: t...@mostdeadlygame.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! David Kellaway wrote: As an aside, if you're a developer and you or your company considers bug reports to be 'spam', I'd love to know where you work so I can never buy any of their products. This is hardly a bug report. The List: OMG! THIS DOESN'T WORK!!!11!!! VALVE IS THE SUXXORS!!! Bug Report: Steps to Reproduce, Detailed Machine stats, dxdiag report, exact error message. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds _ Send e-mail anywhere. No map, no compass. http://windowslive.com/oneline/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_anywhere_122008 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer!
It happens on my TF2 servers which have sourcemod. People have reported it on TF2 servers that do NOT run sourcemod and are vanilla It happens on my L4D servers which are 100% vanilla. It happens on Server 2008 under VMWare ESXI. It happens on Server 2008 Native It happens on Ubuntu64 Linux (vanilla TF2, tested it myself) It happens on Slackware Linux (32 bit) It happens pretty much everywhere. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Leonard L. Church Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 2:54 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! Yes.. Like that.. But I can't get it to reproduce. I've actually haven't been dropped at all on servers that I play on (Mostly vanilla, but some with a few mods). So it's something else apparently. Actually, that leads me to believe it's the fault of some mod the person has installed on their server, but I may be wrong. So no. It's not as simple as you suspect. Blood Letter wrote: You mean like: Join a server. Wait for the map to change. Machine/Configuration: ANY Error message: Standard connection problem counter til timeout. Join a server. Be moved to a CircleX server. Machine/Configuration: ANY Error message: NONE Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 11:13:43 -0800 From: t...@mostdeadlygame.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! David Kellaway wrote: As an aside, if you're a developer and you or your company considers bug reports to be 'spam', I'd love to know where you work so I can never buy any of their products. This is hardly a bug report. The List: OMG! THIS DOESN'T WORK!!!11!!! VALVE IS THE SUXXORS!!! Bug Report: Steps to Reproduce, Detailed Machine stats, dxdiag report, exact error message. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds _ Send e-mail anywhere. No map, no compass. http://windowslive.com/oneline/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_anywhere_122008 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer!
So how many of you are willing to shut down your servers for a week in Protest? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer!
This happens on TF2 and L4D with no mod/addons (and has been confirmed). I have gotten this to happen windows XP, Vista, server 03 08. With L4D I would say it's about 1-3 VS games will end due to this bug before they make it to the 5th map. With TF2 we get this bug on average 3 times a day. With TF2 the more players you have the more chance you will get this bug. A somewhat empty server will occasionally get this bug to where a full TF2 (24) all the time will get this more frequently. and as stated in a email earlier it was stated someone was seeing this on there DODS server too, but that is only one complaint i have seen from the DODS part of the community. I know you like to think that we are just complaining to complain about this issues and we don't know how to test to see what is causing it, but before you jump to your assumptions read the archives since over a month ago this was already tested and confirmed to death. Karl Weckstrom wrote: It happens on my TF2 servers which have sourcemod. People have reported it on TF2 servers that do NOT run sourcemod and are vanilla It happens on my L4D servers which are 100% vanilla. It happens on Server 2008 under VMWare ESXI. It happens on Server 2008 Native It happens on Ubuntu64 Linux (vanilla TF2, tested it myself) It happens on Slackware Linux (32 bit) It happens pretty much everywhere. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Leonard L. Church Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 2:54 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! Yes.. Like that.. But I can't get it to reproduce. I've actually haven't been dropped at all on servers that I play on (Mostly vanilla, but some with a few mods). So it's something else apparently. Actually, that leads me to believe it's the fault of some mod the person has installed on their server, but I may be wrong. So no. It's not as simple as you suspect. Blood Letter wrote: You mean like: Join a server. Wait for the map to change. Machine/Configuration: ANY Error message: Standard connection problem counter til timeout. Join a server. Be moved to a CircleX server. Machine/Configuration: ANY Error message: NONE Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 11:13:43 -0800 From: t...@mostdeadlygame.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! David Kellaway wrote: As an aside, if you're a developer and you or your company considers bug reports to be 'spam', I'd love to know where you work so I can never buy any of their products. This is hardly a bug report. The List: OMG! THIS DOESN'T WORK!!!11!!! VALVE IS THE SUXXORS!!! Bug Report: Steps to Reproduce, Detailed Machine stats, dxdiag report, exact error message. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds _ Send e-mail anywhere. No map, no compass. http://windowslive.com/oneline/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_anywhere_122008 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer!
I doubt a boycott/shutdown would do anything significant. Kind of like this current thread yeah? On Jan 6, 2009, at 12:23 PM, Karl Weckstrom wrote: We don't need anything that drastic - just some kind of timeframe from Valve as to when this showstopper bug will be fixed, or perhaps some kind of workaround. I doubt a boycott/shutdown would do anything significant. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com ] On Behalf Of Clyde cide Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 3:18 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! So how many of you are willing to shut down your servers for a week in Protest? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer!
It happened to me for the first time on DODS last night. And happens on TF2 and L4D since first mentioned here. Windows Server 2003... I understand how long it can take developers to fix bugs, and am happy to wait for a well tested and verified working fix. On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 8:24 PM, SakeFox sake...@kingdomsend.com wrote: This happens on TF2 and L4D with no mod/addons (and has been confirmed). I have gotten this to happen windows XP, Vista, server 03 08. With L4D I would say it's about 1-3 VS games will end due to this bug before they make it to the 5th map. With TF2 we get this bug on average 3 times a day. With TF2 the more players you have the more chance you will get this bug. A somewhat empty server will occasionally get this bug to where a full TF2 (24) all the time will get this more frequently. and as stated in a email earlier it was stated someone was seeing this on there DODS server too, but that is only one complaint i have seen from the DODS part of the community. I know you like to think that we are just complaining to complain about this issues and we don't know how to test to see what is causing it, but before you jump to your assumptions read the archives since over a month ago this was already tested and confirmed to death. Karl Weckstrom wrote: It happens on my TF2 servers which have sourcemod. People have reported it on TF2 servers that do NOT run sourcemod and are vanilla It happens on my L4D servers which are 100% vanilla. It happens on Server 2008 under VMWare ESXI. It happens on Server 2008 Native It happens on Ubuntu64 Linux (vanilla TF2, tested it myself) It happens on Slackware Linux (32 bit) It happens pretty much everywhere. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Leonard L. Church Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 2:54 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! Yes.. Like that.. But I can't get it to reproduce. I've actually haven't been dropped at all on servers that I play on (Mostly vanilla, but some with a few mods). So it's something else apparently. Actually, that leads me to believe it's the fault of some mod the person has installed on their server, but I may be wrong. So no. It's not as simple as you suspect. Blood Letter wrote: You mean like: Join a server. Wait for the map to change. Machine/Configuration: ANY Error message: Standard connection problem counter til timeout. Join a server. Be moved to a CircleX server. Machine/Configuration: ANY Error message: NONE Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 11:13:43 -0800 From: t...@mostdeadlygame.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! David Kellaway wrote: As an aside, if you're a developer and you or your company considers bug reports to be 'spam', I'd love to know where you work so I can never buy any of their products. This is hardly a bug report. The List: OMG! THIS DOESN'T WORK!!!11!!! VALVE IS THE SUXXORS!!! Bug Report: Steps to Reproduce, Detailed Machine stats, dxdiag report, exact error message. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds _ Send e-mail anywhere. No map, no compass. http://windowslive.com/oneline/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_anywhere_122008 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer!
I'm happy to wait too -- I just wish valve was more vocal to us to let us know the progress on all this. All we want is an answer that they are actively working on it and not let these threads constantly disappear and come backup only to be repeated over and over because its taking them so long to do (or not doing at all). Valve! Tell us what you are doing please. From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com on behalf of Chris Sent: Tue 1/6/2009 3:32 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! It happened to me for the first time on DODS last night. And happens on TF2 and L4D since first mentioned here. Windows Server 2003... I understand how long it can take developers to fix bugs, and am happy to wait for a well tested and verified working fix. On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 8:24 PM, SakeFox sake...@kingdomsend.com wrote: This happens on TF2 and L4D with no mod/addons (and has been confirmed). I have gotten this to happen windows XP, Vista, server 03 08. With L4D I would say it's about 1-3 VS games will end due to this bug before they make it to the 5th map. With TF2 we get this bug on average 3 times a day. With TF2 the more players you have the more chance you will get this bug. A somewhat empty server will occasionally get this bug to where a full TF2 (24) all the time will get this more frequently. and as stated in a email earlier it was stated someone was seeing this on there DODS server too, but that is only one complaint i have seen from the DODS part of the community. I know you like to think that we are just complaining to complain about this issues and we don't know how to test to see what is causing it, but before you jump to your assumptions read the archives since over a month ago this was already tested and confirmed to death. Karl Weckstrom wrote: It happens on my TF2 servers which have sourcemod. People have reported it on TF2 servers that do NOT run sourcemod and are vanilla It happens on my L4D servers which are 100% vanilla. It happens on Server 2008 under VMWare ESXI. It happens on Server 2008 Native It happens on Ubuntu64 Linux (vanilla TF2, tested it myself) It happens on Slackware Linux (32 bit) It happens pretty much everywhere. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Leonard L. Church Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 2:54 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! Yes.. Like that.. But I can't get it to reproduce. I've actually haven't been dropped at all on servers that I play on (Mostly vanilla, but some with a few mods). So it's something else apparently. Actually, that leads me to believe it's the fault of some mod the person has installed on their server, but I may be wrong. So no. It's not as simple as you suspect. Blood Letter wrote: You mean like: Join a server. Wait for the map to change. Machine/Configuration: ANY Error message: Standard connection problem counter til timeout. Join a server. Be moved to a CircleX server. Machine/Configuration: ANY Error message: NONE Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 11:13:43 -0800 From: t...@mostdeadlygame.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! David Kellaway wrote: As an aside, if you're a developer and you or your company considers bug reports to be 'spam', I'd love to know where you work so I can never buy any of their products. This is hardly a bug report. The List: OMG! THIS DOESN'T WORK!!!11!!! VALVE IS THE SUXXORS!!! Bug Report: Steps to Reproduce, Detailed Machine stats, dxdiag report, exact error message. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds _ Send e-mail anywhere. No map, no compass. http://windowslive.com/oneline/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_anywhere_122008 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view
Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer!
there is a big difference from a boycott and a complaint Darren Gordon wrote: I doubt a boycott/shutdown would do anything significant. Kind of like this current thread yeah? On Jan 6, 2009, at 12:23 PM, Karl Weckstrom wrote: We don't need anything that drastic - just some kind of timeframe from Valve as to when this showstopper bug will be fixed, or perhaps some kind of workaround. I doubt a boycott/shutdown would do anything significant. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com ] On Behalf Of Clyde cide Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 3:18 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! So how many of you are willing to shut down your servers for a week in Protest? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer!
Maybe - That depends if Valve is reading these messages. I sincerely hope that they are. I agree with a previous poster that they need to be careful with their responses. If I were Valve, I would be very selective with my words. I *DON'T* agree with another poster that Valve Doesn't Care about their games or what we say about them. That's just silly reverse psychology. I certainly HOPE these emails from server operators aren't pointless. That would mean those who support valve are effectively neutered, and the only thing we can do to retaliate is to not buy valve products, which would be a crappy final outcome for EVERYONE involved, don't you think? I am personally of the opinion that Valve WANTS us to be involved in their products and to support them as server operators. However I also believe that Valve is NOT prioritizing these issues as highly as what is warranted. I think we can **ALL** agree that this bug is grievous and should have been fixed long ago. I love everything about TF2's gameplay. What I don't like are the glaring exploits and bugs that ruin the experience for OUR players (Mine *AND* Valve's - we're in this together). Since I am involved in Valve's product to a large degree, I feel I have earned the right to voice my opinion given my current investment in Valve's products. I've given Time, Hardware and purchased bandwidth to their products, and would like to continue doing so - but I DO expect things in return from Valve. Sorry, I don't feel this thread is useless, nor do I think anyone that complains is even REMOTELY out of line. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Darren Gordon Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 3:27 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! I doubt a boycott/shutdown would do anything significant. Kind of like this current thread yeah? On Jan 6, 2009, at 12:23 PM, Karl Weckstrom wrote: We don't need anything that drastic - just some kind of timeframe from Valve as to when this showstopper bug will be fixed, or perhaps some kind of workaround. I doubt a boycott/shutdown would do anything significant. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com ] On Behalf Of Clyde cide Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 3:18 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! So how many of you are willing to shut down your servers for a week in Protest? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer!
You must be new to this list... LOL I'm done with this also.. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of David Kellaway Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 11:50 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! This is fairly obviously an unconstructive troll, but it also does a nice job of summing up why the situation is ridiculous - valve really couldn't care less about perfectly valid complaints about their game being broken as all hell. They don't even reply to the list with we're looking at this or this will be fixed in build x, there's just endless complaints about bugs and no sign of any fixes that don't come from the parts of the community who actually care about the game being playable. As an aside, if you're a developer and you or your company considers bug reports to be 'spam', I'd love to know where you work so I can never buy any of their products. On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 17:40:15 -, Mike Stiehm mikesti...@gmail.com wrote: It's like talking to a brick wall.. Let them spam the list with their complaints and hate mail for valve. Just sit back like I do and watch them all talk to themselves. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer!
Internet fight. On 1/6/09, Mike Stiehm mikesti...@gmail.com wrote: unconstructive troll? Ya I'm sure you know me right? Just shows what type of person you are my friend to resort to name calling.. Sounds like you are the troll. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of David Kellaway Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 11:50 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! This is fairly obviously an unconstructive troll, but it also does a nice job of summing up why the situation is ridiculous - valve really couldn't care less about perfectly valid complaints about their game being broken as all hell. They don't even reply to the list with we're looking at this or this will be fixed in build x, there's just endless complaints about bugs and no sign of any fixes that don't come from the parts of the community who actually care about the game being playable. As an aside, if you're a developer and you or your company considers bug reports to be 'spam', I'd love to know where you work so I can never buy any of their products. On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 17:40:15 -, Mike Stiehm mikesti...@gmail.com wrote: It's like talking to a brick wall.. Let them spam the list with their complaints and hate mail for valve. Just sit back like I do and watch them all talk to themselves. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer!
Mike. You only look like a troll. LOL 3 Neil Voutt http://www.neilvoutt.com Sent from my iPhone On 6-Jan-09, at 6:16 PM, Mike Stiehm mikesti...@gmail.com wrote: You must be new to this list... LOL I'm done with this also.. -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of David Kellaway Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 11:50 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! This is fairly obviously an unconstructive troll, but it also does a nice job of summing up why the situation is ridiculous - valve really couldn't care less about perfectly valid complaints about their game being broken as all hell. They don't even reply to the list with we're looking at this or this will be fixed in build x, there's just endless complaints about bugs and no sign of any fixes that don't come from the parts of the community who actually care about the game being playable. As an aside, if you're a developer and you or your company considers bug reports to be 'spam', I'd love to know where you work so I can never buy any of their products. On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 17:40:15 -, Mike Stiehm mikesti...@gmail.com wrote: It's like talking to a brick wall.. Let them spam the list with their complaints and hate mail for valve. Just sit back like I do and watch them all talk to themselves. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
[hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer!
I posted this in another thread, but it wouldn't be good to steal it or really bring that thread down so i thought i would just make a new one. I don't know how many people will post in this or if it will go anywhere, but it's time to make a post to tell valve how we feel. I used to defend and help them, but now it's almost like what's the point. quoted from other post you guys haven't realized yet that valve has stopped caring about there games? We have been waiting for over a month for a fix for tf2 hell there are still some bugs from the beta that they still haven't fixed. I used to monitor my little bug list in the forums, but patch after patch maybe only 2-3 bugs would actually get fixed i started to realize valve doesn't give a crap about how there games run and that became overly noticed when they refuse to fix the map change error in TF2 and L4D. Valve will not reply to your issue nor do they care. they will not reply to us about any other bug. just give up ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer!
Hi SakeFox, I don't think that this is the place to post this. Again, this mailing list is for information exchanging between server admins. It would be best if you posted about your concern on a Valve forum. In light of that fact that others will post on this subject here, and I can't prevent thatI will say the following: Secondly, you should realize that it is just about every company's policy to not admit fault. For a company the size of Valve, this is essential. It keeps the amount of negative feedback from reviewers and writers alike, down to a minimum...which gives the rest of us the illusion of a good company. Let me assure of thisthey are listening. They take everything we say here or elsewhere and it gets put into an excel spreadsheet. In their weekly meetings, they discuss each item and prioritize it. Unfortunately, their position on each item might be different from yours and yours may be different from mine. One thing you learn very quickly, in this business, is that you will never make everyone happy. You have to make the most of the resources you have at the moment. That's all I can say on that. I hope you understand. It's hard to see the entire other side of the river until you're actually standing over there. Regards, Aaron Rapp -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of SakeFox Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 9:34 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! I posted this in another thread, but it wouldn't be good to steal it or really bring that thread down so i thought i would just make a new one. I don't know how many people will post in this or if it will go anywhere, but it's time to make a post to tell valve how we feel. I used to defend and help them, but now it's almost like what's the point. quoted from other post you guys haven't realized yet that valve has stopped caring about there games? We have been waiting for over a month for a fix for tf2 hell there are still some bugs from the beta that they still haven't fixed. I used to monitor my little bug list in the forums, but patch after patch maybe only 2-3 bugs would actually get fixed i started to realize valve doesn't give a crap about how there games run and that became overly noticed when they refuse to fix the map change error in TF2 and L4D. Valve will not reply to your issue nor do they care. they will not reply to us about any other bug. just give up ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer!
Thank you.. Really month after month it's the same complaints about Valve yet month after month nothing changes.. We really don't need 15 people saying the same thing over and over and over... I understand that this is a serious issue and it was brought up I just don't see what complaining over and over about the same thing will do? I'm with you guys I'm just sick of the same emails just from a different person day after day. I would like this list to get back to helping people with the issues that was can address without valve... -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Aaron Rapp Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 11:51 PM To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list' Subject: Re: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! Hi SakeFox, I don't think that this is the place to post this. Again, this mailing list is for information exchanging between server admins. It would be best if you posted about your concern on a Valve forum. In light of that fact that others will post on this subject here, and I can't prevent thatI will say the following: Secondly, you should realize that it is just about every company's policy to not admit fault. For a company the size of Valve, this is essential. It keeps the amount of negative feedback from reviewers and writers alike, down to a minimum...which gives the rest of us the illusion of a good company. Let me assure of thisthey are listening. They take everything we say here or elsewhere and it gets put into an excel spreadsheet. In their weekly meetings, they discuss each item and prioritize it. Unfortunately, their position on each item might be different from yours and yours may be different from mine. One thing you learn very quickly, in this business, is that you will never make everyone happy. You have to make the most of the resources you have at the moment. That's all I can say on that. I hope you understand. It's hard to see the entire other side of the river until you're actually standing over there. Regards, Aaron Rapp -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of SakeFox Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 9:34 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: [hlds] Valve It's Time To Listen And Answer! I posted this in another thread, but it wouldn't be good to steal it or really bring that thread down so i thought i would just make a new one. I don't know how many people will post in this or if it will go anywhere, but it's time to make a post to tell valve how we feel. I used to defend and help them, but now it's almost like what's the point. quoted from other post you guys haven't realized yet that valve has stopped caring about there games? We have been waiting for over a month for a fix for tf2 hell there are still some bugs from the beta that they still haven't fixed. I used to monitor my little bug list in the forums, but patch after patch maybe only 2-3 bugs would actually get fixed i started to realize valve doesn't give a crap about how there games run and that became overly noticed when they refuse to fix the map change error in TF2 and L4D. Valve will not reply to your issue nor do they care. they will not reply to us about any other bug. just give up ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
