RE: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? [OT]
Jeremy Brooking said: On Fri, 2003-03-14 at 16:58, Mad Scientist wrote: Not always the case though, for example you can route traffic on a 48i. Guess it all comes down to what layer the switch is. Doesn't that really make it a router/switch? It depends on configuration. Like a 486 isn't a router, until you load the router software, then it becomes a router. 48i not a 486 :) That's right. A 486 is a general purpose computer. And a 48i is a 48 port 10/100 switch. Neither one is a router in its default configuration. Both can be made into routers. That's the point I was making. -Mad ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? [OT]
On Tue, 2003-03-18 at 12:43, Mad Scientist wrote: 48i not a 486 :) That's right. A 486 is a general purpose computer. And a 48i is a 48 port 10/100 switch. Neither one is a router in its default configuration. Both can be made into routers. That's the point I was making. a 48i wont even switch in its 'default' config so I dont really get your point. Layer 3 switching is not routing? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons?
Ronin wrote: What I find most funny is that everyone else is wrong and he is right. Typical child mentality. And your information is STILL wrong, Stefan. *chuckles* Actually the child mentallity is to repetedly say someone else is wrong and don't know what they are talking about without ever them self providing any kind of information that they can back up. You havn't even provided anything as evidence as to me being wrong. What you have done is eg to eg correct me by saing an XP 1700+ is not the same core as an XP 2800+ Of cource the rest of the world would disagree, since it is a well know fact that they are the same core http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20030210/barton-09.html Ronin, it's becoming more and more obvious that you have no knowledge at all, but are simply into personal attacks thinking it makes you look cool. Newsflash, it doesn't -- /Stefan Software never has bugs. It just develops random features. =) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons?
Matt wrote: I'm hoping for this schedule. 2:00pm EST - IDE vs SCSI flamewar 4:00pm EST - Cheating flamewar 5:00pm EST - Opera 6:00pm EST - flamewar flamewar 10:00pm EST - someone unsubscribes and sends scathing goodbye note 10:01pm EST - huge flamewar 12:00pm EST - someone posts legit question inciting a flamewar Crap, I'm not available for the flamewar flamewar, is there any chance of moving the schedule ;) -- /Stefan Software never has bugs. It just develops random features. =) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? [OT]
Mad Scientist wrote: And most firewall are routers too (let's get the firewall definition guy started again :P) Just for the record: no, they are not. Some are, but not most of them. :) Florian. -- Want to produce professional emails and Usenet postings? http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons?
Mad Scientist wrote: Stefan Huszics said: Mad Scientist wrote: I do believe you meant maximum speed... Actually no. A maximum speed garantee wouldn't be much of a garantee now would it ;) Um, why not? It's the fastest they guarantee the chip will run at, hence, maximum speed. They do not guarantee it will run any faster. It may run faster, but no guarantee. Need I post a definition from the dictionary? Perhaps the reason this discussion has gone on so long is because we are speaking different languages. I'm speaking English, how about you? This might be a language problems yes, becuse English is only my third language. However all other languages I know as well as mathematics define Maximum Garanteed as X = Y Minimum Garanteed as X = Y Thus a Garantee that your brand new XP 2800+ might actually only run as fast as a XP 2000+ ( 2000 = 2800) would be a very poor garantee indeed. If you buy a XP 2800+ the logical thing to expect would be that it's garanteed to run at XP 2800+ speed (2800 = 2800). If this is not how it's expressed in english I apreciate the correction :) I'll just add it to the list of illogical things US(?) people do, like the weird dateformat and celebrating the turn of the new milennium 1999-2000 when it didn't start untill 2001 :D -- /Stefan Software never has bugs. It just develops random features. =) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? [OT]
Hmm, really? All the firewalls I've installed lately are routers also... If the firewall not is a router at the same time it must work transparently, that is 2NIC's that is bridged togheter and with the firewall that sits between and filtering all the stuff. This is somehow not that good as if you also use it as a router, because you will need 2NIC's for every network you want to protect. If you use it as a router also you only need 1NIC to the gateway and 1NIC for each of the net behind the firewall... /Oscar Florian Zschocke wrote: Mad Scientist wrote: And most firewall are routers too (let's get the firewall definition guy started again :P) Just for the record: no, they are not. Some are, but not most of them. :) Florian. -- Want to produce professional emails and Usenet postings? http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? [OT]
--Original Message- -From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Oscar N aka -'Dreadful' -Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 4:44 AM -To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? [OT] - - -Hmm, really? All the firewalls I've installed lately are routers also... -If the firewall not is a router at the same time it must work -transparently, that is 2NIC's that is bridged togheter and with the -firewall that sits between and filtering all the stuff. -This is somehow not that good as if you also use it as a router, because -you will need 2NIC's for every network you want to protect. If you use -it as a router also you only need 1NIC to the gateway and 1NIC for each -of the net behind the firewall... Its the right tool, for the right job thing. There are reasons and situations to go either way. Really no point in arguing about it. kev ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons?
it's becoming more and more obvious that you have no knowledge at all, but are simply into personal attacks thinking it makes you look cool. Newsflash, it doesn't Newslfash, using newsflash in a sentence that way is very...dorky :P -- Eric (the Deacon remix) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? [OT]
Hmm, really? All the firewalls I've installed lately are routers also... Guys, since this seems to be a recent affliction on this site: Please remember that your own experience doesn't not necessarily translate to global truth. -- Eric (the Deacon remix) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons?
Newslfash, using newsflash in a sentence that way is very...dorky :P Hahaha You know what made that more entertaining? Newslfash! It's like another Ghezundheit! - Tyler [TASF]Overkill Schwend Semper facere bonum, an a amare odium, vita mors. --- Server operator of [LCGA]Telefragged: Counter-Strike: telefragged.lynchburg.edu:27015 http://schwend-t.web.lynchburg.edu ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons?
In other words, shut the f*** up. Thx la~ Oh, and please respond promptly with some childish retort. I can't wait to hear it. Oh my f***ing god, your s*** is so godd***ed mature right?. I assume you had your daily dose of c*** and a** and *** *** * ** ** *** * ***? -- Eric (the Deacon remix) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons?[keeping it alive]
A router (by my reckoning, anyway) would be any device that routes packets between networks. A NAT device does this; a switch does not. I think thats correct, be it $100 or $38,000 not including operating system (thanks Cisco) if it moves packets from IP network to another, its a router. No need for router racism. Negative. RFC1918 addresses are also classed as 'non routable' addresses. The packets DO NOT get routed, they get translated, there's a difference between the 2, but most people buy into the marketing hoopla and don't wish to see that. -- Eric (the Deacon remix) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons?[keeping it alive]
oh, yeah, must keep this thread going! Well, they are classed 'non routable', but they are fully routable... A NAT device is somehow in the grey zone because it's connected to at least 2 networks. And somewhere in the device it route packets. But as you said, the packets also get translated which might not have been the original definition of a router... But if I were to choose between hub, switch, router, brouter, bridge or gateway, I would say router because that is closest to the function... /Oscar Eric (Deacon) wrote: A router (by my reckoning, anyway) would be any device that routes packets between networks. A NAT device does this; a switch does not. I think thats correct, be it $100 or $38,000 not including operating system (thanks Cisco) if it moves packets from IP network to another, its a router. No need for router racism. Negative. RFC1918 addresses are also classed as 'non routable' addresses. The packets DO NOT get routed, they get translated, there's a difference between the 2, but most people buy into the marketing hoopla and don't wish to see that. -- Eric (the Deacon remix) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons?[keeping it alive]
Your talking about 192.169.ect.ect 10.x.x.x ? A Cisco will route and advertise those blocks just like any other addresses unless you filter them out. There is no hard coded rule in a cisco that stops joe idiot from annoucing 192.169.x.x to the world besides the clueful admin and his bogon filter. Heck, sometimes you can go 2 or 3 AS's deep during a traceroute before you hit a router dropping RFC1918 space. At least, thats from my own experience from ISO 12.x. On Fri, 2003-03-14 at 20:06, Eric (Deacon) wrote: A router (by my reckoning, anyway) would be any device that routes packets between networks. A NAT device does this; a switch does not. I think thats correct, be it $100 or $38,000 not including operating system (thanks Cisco) if it moves packets from IP network to another, its a router. No need for router racism. Negative. RFC1918 addresses are also classed as 'non routable' addresses. The packets DO NOT get routed, they get translated, there's a difference between the 2, but most people buy into the marketing hoopla and don't wish to see that. -- Eric (the Deacon remix) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux -- SQLBoy [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.playway.net ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons?[keeping it alive]
I think I would choose... hmm... sock, I mean that is also used to keep stuff(read smelly feet) where it's suposed to be. And what if the 'device' includes stuff like port filter rules, regular routing and things that are used in the so called 'broadband routers' and common firewalls? aaah, now it's getting tricky! Hmm, by the way, what does this have to do with Dualie Athlons? ;) /Oscar Eric (Deacon) wrote: But if I were to choose between hub, switch, router, brouter, bridge or gateway, I would say router because that is closest to the function... And if you were to choose between boat, gorilla, alien, and sock, which would you pick? It doesn't matter since none of the choices mentioned by either of us are accurate. It is a NAT device. Plain and simple. -- Eric (the Deacon remix) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons?[keeping it alive]
And what if the 'device' includes stuff like port filter rules, regular routing and things that are used in the so called 'broadband routers' and common firewalls? aaah, now it's getting tricky! Actually, combining independent functions is pretty common in network equipment. However, I'd *LOVE* to hear how someone has used these so-called broadband routers to act as just that: a router. I've never heard of one that actually performs as a router, only those that perform NAT. If someone is using one of these routers to actually be a router and not a NAT device, they've never told anyone else. Maybe they're scared CISCO will find out and murder them in their sleep? :P Hmm, by the way, what does this have to do with Dualie Athlons? ;) About as much as the term router has to do with a low-end NAT device. -- Eric (the Deacon remix) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 2003-03-12 at 23:16, Ronin wrote: What I find most funny is that everyone else is wrong and he is right. Typical child mentality. And your information is STILL wrong, Stefan. *chuckles* So, anyone up for some good SCSI vs IDE action? What's to discuss? SCSI is obviously a great thing if you've got the extra cash burning a hole in your pocket, but it's simply a question of whether you can fit it into your budget. Personally, I'm happy with my 8MB cache WD SE IDE drives. -- Eric (the Deacon remix) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons?
You have those, too? :) Only thing running SCSI drives atm are my servers, actually. I don't care as much about the performance on my home boxes. I am to provide a good server for my players...the rest I can handle on my own. - Original Message - From: Eric (Deacon) [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 9:35 AM Subject: RE: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 2003-03-12 at 23:16, Ronin wrote: What I find most funny is that everyone else is wrong and he is right. Typical child mentality. And your information is STILL wrong, Stefan. *chuckles* So, anyone up for some good SCSI vs IDE action? What's to discuss? SCSI is obviously a great thing if you've got the extra cash burning a hole in your pocket, but it's simply a question of whether you can fit it into your budget. Personally, I'm happy with my 8MB cache WD SE IDE drives. -- Eric (the Deacon remix) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons?
Deacon said: So, anyone up for some good SCSI vs IDE action? What's to discuss? SCSI is obviously a great thing if you've got the extra cash burning a hole in your pocket, but it's simply a question of whether you can fit it into your budget. Personally, I'm happy with my 8MB cache WD SE IDE drives. I find RAM is a lot cheaper than a SCSI setup. I just stuck enough RAM in the box so that the entire map rotation is in cache. Except for logging, which is buffered, the disk light never blinks after the first full cycle, and those few blinks are so brief they are difficult to see. Nobody can tell the difference on the server. :-) -Mad ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons?
Matt said: 2:00pm EST - IDE vs SCSI flamewar 4:00pm EST - Cheating flamewar 5:00pm EST - Opera 6:00pm EST - flamewar flamewar 10:00pm EST - someone unsubscribes and sends scathing goodbye note 10:01pm EST - huge flamewar 12:00pm EST - someone posts legit question inciting a flamewar Can you translate EST into UTC so I can figure out what time that is in my local time zone? -Mad ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons?
Matt wrote: So, anyone up for some good SCSI vs IDE action? Yes :) -- - m0gely http://quake2.telestream.com/ Q2 | Q3A | Counter-strike ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons?
Well... Not to egg things on but I would be interested in everyones take on this. Personally I've got 10k U160 drives in two of my PCs at home. One PC is IDE as are the servers. I know I know, kinda stupid. But my servers don't do much but store mp3s. :P Now, I'm getting ready to set up a server for my training room. I'm going to be running Linux on it. I'm going to use it to store Ghost images. I'll be restoring the images on 15 computers at a time. As long as I can get all the computers done in 60 min I'm happy. I really have 2 hours but... From what I could tell current top of the line IDE hard drives can put out 30MB/sec where current top of the line SCSI hard drives can put out 40MB/sec. I got this information from storagereview.com. I haven't seen the test results on the 10k SATA drives yet but I don't think I would go that way. Please correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Linux's support for SCSI hard drives much better than it's support for UDMA chipsets? Won't I have a better chance getting the drive's maximum performance if I go SCSI? If that's not true, then I would prefer to save the money and go IDE. On Wed, 2003-03-12 at 23:16, Ronin wrote: What I find most funny is that everyone else is wrong and he is right. Typical child mentality. And your information is STILL wrong, Stefan. *chuckles* So, anyone up for some good SCSI vs IDE action? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons?
No, but AMD ownz, Intel sux. Oh, and RedHat ownz, slack sux. So does all *BSD. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 11:20 AM To: hlds Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? On Wed, 2003-03-12 at 23:16, Ronin wrote: What I find most funny is that everyone else is wrong and he is right. Typical child mentality. And your information is STILL wrong, Stefan. *chuckles* So, anyone up for some good SCSI vs IDE action? -- Matt http://www.playway.net ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons?
No, but AMD ownz, Intel sux. Oh, and RedHat ownz, slack sux. So does all *BSD. Hondaman, you're a fucktard. Though I use and support the items you listed, you're a fucktard. Extremists are fucktards. - Tyler [TASF]Overkill Schwend Semper facere bonum, an a amare odium, vita mors. --- Server operator of [LCGA]Telefragged: Counter-Strike: telefragged.lynchburg.edu:27015 http://schwend-t.web.lynchburg.edu ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons?
WOAH WOAH, settle down cowboy. Guess I needed a :) at the end. Some peoples kidz... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tyler Overkill Schwend Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 12:35 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? No, but AMD ownz, Intel sux. Oh, and RedHat ownz, slack sux. So does all *BSD. Hondaman, you're a fucktard. Though I use and support the items you listed, you're a fucktard. Extremists are fucktards. - Tyler [TASF]Overkill Schwend Semper facere bonum, an a amare odium, vita mors. --- Server operator of [LCGA]Telefragged: Counter-Strike: telefragged.lynchburg.edu:27015 http://schwend-t.web.lynchburg.edu ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons?
Jeremy Brooking said: 2am Flamewar over who started the flamewar Not sure if I can make that one. Is it OK if I post the next morning? -Mad ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons?
That doesn't seem like 1 single array :P And you know that we'll have to kill you when you write stuff like C: /Oscar Ronin wrote: C: 95.13GB out of 114.47GB F: 14.53GB out of 19.06GB H: 1.05GB out of 271.98GB I: 1.03GB out of 4GB P: 65.64GB out of 739.44GB q: 35.88GB out of 679.94GB r: 316.38GB out of 679.99GB s: 1.03GB out of 50.99GB I have 530.67GB free out of 2559.87GB available IRC script I have that shows what I have in space on each one of my drives. Now THAT is a raid array :) - Original Message - From: Oscar N aka 'Dreadful' [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 1:49 PM Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? bah, stop telling yourself lies. I mean, if you don't want to go with scsi raid, then who can resist an 3ware escalade controller with 12 120gb IDE discs ;) No, time to sleep and wake up 6hours later with 284new messages from this spam list :P /Oscar Me wrote: Yes that would be great. But do I _NEED_ the additional speed? Can I do what I need in 60 minutes if I use IDE? I would use some sort of RAID add-on controller (any suggestions?). Here are the three configurations I might want to use: 2 WD1200BB hard drives on RAID 0 (Western Digital 120GB 8mb 7200rpm buffer) 4 WD400JB hard drives on RAID 0 (Western Digital 40GB 8mb 7200rpm buffer) 3 KW018L2 hard drives on RAID 0 (Quantum Atlas II 18GB 10k rpm SCSI 160) I don't think space will be an issue. I don't imagine using more than 20GB. /me think you should buy four 15k rpm scsi drives, put them in an raid 0 array and hell we got some spd :) Me wrote: Well... Not to egg things on but I would be interested in everyones take on this. Personally I've got 10k U160 drives in two of my PCs at home. One PC is IDE as are the servers. I know I know, kinda stupid. But my servers don't do much but store mp3s. :P Now, I'm getting ready to set up a server for my training room. I'm going to be running Linux on it. I'm going to use it to store Ghost images. I'll be restoring the images on 15 computers at a time. As long as I can get all the computers done in 60 min I'm happy. I really have 2 hours but... From what I could tell current top of the line IDE hard drives can put out 30MB/sec where current top of the line SCSI hard drives can put out 40MB/sec. I got this information from storagereview.com. I haven't seen the test results on the 10k SATA drives yet but I don't think I would go that way. Please correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Linux's support for SCSI hard drives much better than it's support for UDMA chipsets? Won't I have a better chance getting the drive's maximum performance if I go SCSI? If that's not true, then I would prefer to save the money and go IDE. On Wed, 2003-03-12 at 23:16, Ronin wrote: What I find most funny is that everyone else is wrong and he is right. Typical child mentality. And your information is STILL wrong, Stefan. *chuckles* So, anyone up for some good SCSI vs IDE action? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons?
/snicker Sorry..can't do a lot of stuff I need to do on Linux, and VMWare doesn't cut it. And you're right, it's not one single array, it's multiples. - Original Message - From: Oscar N aka 'Dreadful' [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 3:50 PM Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? That doesn't seem like 1 single array :P And you know that we'll have to kill you when you write stuff like C: /Oscar Ronin wrote: C: 95.13GB out of 114.47GB F: 14.53GB out of 19.06GB H: 1.05GB out of 271.98GB I: 1.03GB out of 4GB P: 65.64GB out of 739.44GB q: 35.88GB out of 679.94GB r: 316.38GB out of 679.99GB s: 1.03GB out of 50.99GB I have 530.67GB free out of 2559.87GB available IRC script I have that shows what I have in space on each one of my drives. Now THAT is a raid array :) - Original Message - From: Oscar N aka 'Dreadful' [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 1:49 PM Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? bah, stop telling yourself lies. I mean, if you don't want to go with scsi raid, then who can resist an 3ware escalade controller with 12 120gb IDE discs ;) No, time to sleep and wake up 6hours later with 284new messages from this spam list :P /Oscar Me wrote: Yes that would be great. But do I _NEED_ the additional speed? Can I do what I need in 60 minutes if I use IDE? I would use some sort of RAID add-on controller (any suggestions?). Here are the three configurations I might want to use: 2 WD1200BB hard drives on RAID 0 (Western Digital 120GB 8mb 7200rpm buffer) 4 WD400JB hard drives on RAID 0 (Western Digital 40GB 8mb 7200rpm buffer) 3 KW018L2 hard drives on RAID 0 (Quantum Atlas II 18GB 10k rpm SCSI 160) I don't think space will be an issue. I don't imagine using more than 20GB. /me think you should buy four 15k rpm scsi drives, put them in an raid 0 array and hell we got some spd :) Me wrote: Well... Not to egg things on but I would be interested in everyones take on this. Personally I've got 10k U160 drives in two of my PCs at home. One PC is IDE as are the servers. I know I know, kinda stupid. But my servers don't do much but store mp3s. :P Now, I'm getting ready to set up a server for my training room. I'm going to be running Linux on it. I'm going to use it to store Ghost images. I'll be restoring the images on 15 computers at a time. As long as I can get all the computers done in 60 min I'm happy. I really have 2 hours but... From what I could tell current top of the line IDE hard drives can put out 30MB/sec where current top of the line SCSI hard drives can put out 40MB/sec. I got this information from storagereview.com. I haven't seen the test results on the 10k SATA drives yet but I don't think I would go that way. Please correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Linux's support for SCSI hard drives much better than it's support for UDMA chipsets? Won't I have a better chance getting the drive's maximum performance if I go SCSI? If that's not true, then I would prefer to save the money and go IDE. On Wed, 2003-03-12 at 23:16, Ronin wrote: What I find most funny is that everyone else is wrong and he is right. Typical child mentality. And your information is STILL wrong, Stefan. *chuckles* So, anyone up for some good SCSI vs IDE action? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? [OT]
If you would only go look up the definition you would see but you won't. You will simply hold to your incorrect thoughts. Go read a book. Nuff said. On Thu, 2003-03-13 at 18:04, Me wrote: Just because you've done something for a long time doesn't mean you've been doing it right. Not that I'm saying you are doing it wrong, I've never seen your work. Just saying that's no proof. Oh of course not, im sure you know far more than I. Hence why you regard ZoneAlarm as a firewall. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons?
I did a 2GB copy from Linux to a Windows machine using Samba. I got 5.85MB/sec. Hint: use FTP instead. I can max out my 100Mb switched network connection between my workstation and server using FTP, literally pushing 95Mb to 97Mb, sustained. -- Eric (the Deacon remix) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? [OT]
Oh of course not, im sure you know far more than I. Hence why you regard ZoneAlarm as a firewall. Of course, I still see people referring to home NAT devices as routers, too, so... -- Eric (the Deacon remix) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? [OT]
A home NAT box is a router. It is routing packets between your local network and your DSL connection (and performing NAT on the packets). A router routes packets :) Eric (Deacon) wrote: Oh of course not, im sure you know far more than I. Hence why you regard ZoneAlarm as a firewall. Of course, I still see people referring to home NAT devices as routers, too, so... ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? [OT]
Deacon said: Oh of course not, im sure you know far more than I. Hence why you regard ZoneAlarm as a firewall. Of course, I still see people referring to home NAT devices as routers, too, so... A NAT device is a router... it has different subnets on each interface, doesn't it? And ZoneAlarm is also a firewall... just a very simple one. Firewalls can include everything from a simple host-based packet filter to a multi-level stateful packet filter/NAT/proxy all on different devices and platforms across several subnets. -Mad ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons?
Matt wrote: The 1700+ will work good but now you loose your 333Mhz FSB feature!! Why would I ever consider sticking to 266 busspeed when I overclock -- /Stefan Software never has bugs. It just develops random features. =) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? [OT]
Is this not a thread about starting a new machine, not upgrading ? I am refering to a new build, not having to upgrade/cvsup at all. My bad if this is an upgrading topic. - Original Message - From: Kevin J. Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 11:36 AM Subject: RE: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? [OT] I realise that fully. Have you not read the switching to 5.0 articles/warnings on freebsd.org? --Original Message- -From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Drew -Broadley -Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 5:31 PM -To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? [OT] - - -FreeBSD 5.0 is offically a RELEASE. -http://www.freebsd.org/releases/5.0R/announce.html -and going back to 4.8 defy's the point in using 5.0 as I was -refering to its -new SMP enhancements. - - -- Original Message - -From: Kevin J. Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] -To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 11:21 AM -Subject: RE: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? [OT] - - - a word of warning, 5.0 still has a shitload of debugging stuff -enabled by - default, which slows down its performance enough that you might as well - stick w/ the 4.8 release. - - although I heard you can comment out some kernel options to take that - debugging out, bringing the performance back. I havent looked -into it all - that much. (been using gentoo primarily, also very secure by default) - - kev - - --Original Message- - -From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - -[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Drew - -Broadley - -Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 3:41 PM - -To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - -Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? [OT] - - - - - -FreeBSD 5.0 has had its SMP section reworked, and could be a - -viable option. - -See Here: -http://www.freebsd.org/releases/5.0R/relnotes-i386.html#AEN401 - - - -Security has always been a high point of the *BSD distro's and - -when you do a - -clean - -install of a system you will find limited ports being opened, unlike -many - -linux distros where - -you spend a fair amount of time locking down. - - - -I will be using FreeBSD 5.0 for my Dual MP 2000+ system, I am just -waiting - -on some Gig - -ECC RAM sticks and then I will have it up next week, if -anyone wants me -to - -keep them posted - -on the performance and give some benchmark results as such -just gimme a - -yell. - - - -Hopefully the FreeBSD linux_base (linux emulation) has gotten -rid of the - -HLTV IP binding bug, - -I should get onto informing someone of that... so much to do, -so little - -time! - - - --Drewpy - - - -- Original Message - - -From: Me [EMAIL PROTECTED] - -To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - -Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 9:49 AM - -Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? [OT] - - - - - - Oh I agree 100%. Security is very important. It's really hard - -to get my - - clients to realize how important. To them, it's just a server - -reinstall. - - They refuse to grasp the true amount of damage that can be -done with a - - compromised system... sigh - - - - Me said: - - I know of a good number of production servers still running the -2.2.x - - kernel line. lol. - - - - 2.2.x is still maintained. Security patches are still being -published. - - - - - - All that said, your suggestion is a good one, just not feasable -under - - some situations. - - - - True enough. In general, tracking the kernel just to be - -current is not a - - good idea, and is more likely to introduce even more - -problems. However, - - a keen watch for security related patches is important. - - - - Did you know that the iptables code was patched last year? Without -the - - patch, it may be possible for a remote user to bypass -your firewall. - - This is a kernel patch that will require a reboot. But if the - -box is not - - a firewall, then no worries... it all depends on the use. My - -suggestion - - is merely to know what has been released, and if a security - -patch is not - - applied, there should be a reason. - - - - Sorry for always harping on security issues, but we all share the - - Internet. When people use sloppy security and become -zombies in some - - kiddie's DoS army, it affects all of us. A higher security - -awareness for - - everyone is a good thing. - - - - -Mad - - - - - - ___ - - To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list -archives, - - please visit: - -http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux - - - - - - - - ___ - - To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the -list archives, - -please visit: - - http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux - - - - - -___ - -To unsubscribe, edit your list
Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons?
Ronin wrote: I wouldn't count on going to 2500+ speeds. That's a pretty damn healthy jump (600Mhz or so). Not when you consider that the exact same CPU core stepping is also sold as the XP 2800+ If you are going to overclock you should always get the smallest version of a specific CPU line (since it's the cheapest, but potentially can reach same clockrate the line top unit is sold as), and in this case the XP1700+ is the smallest brother of the XP 2800+. Thus XP 2500+ is definitly in the ballpark, and if I only reach XP 2200+, so what? CPU only costed $62. I can buy a new one in say 3 months if I happen to get a bad one. -- /Stefan Software never has bugs. It just develops random features. =) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons?
AMD CPUs, though, rely more on custom cooling than Intel do, and that's where the problem lies. It almost sounds like he wants to OC the CPUs to claim that his server is a 2500+, when in reality, it's a possibly stable 1700+ that's been pushed. It's an absolute rarity to have just air cooling and get anything over a 200MHz bump on CPU speed, regardless of whether you're doing FSB OCing, multiplier OCing, or both. I'm sorry, but do that to your gaming machine if you want, not your server. You don't gain that much by doing so. - Original Message - From: Kevin J. Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 2:32 PM Subject: RE: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? Not that I disagree w/ you, but from what I've seen on hardocp posts, there are some cpus that will do the overclock, but they have stated that its not uniform across all the processors of that speed... some do, and some dont. You jsut better have some mondo cooling if you want it to be stable, and use high quality parts everywhere else otherwise kev --Original Message- -From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Ronin -Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 5:28 PM -To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? - - -I wouldn't count on going to 2500+ speeds. That's a pretty damn healthy -jump (600Mhz or so). Buying a processor for the express intent to OC is -fine and dandy, but that's not what you want to do on a system -that you plan -on making your server. You compromise stability in the long run, and -overall it's simply not a good idea. - - -Ronin -- Original Message - -From: Matt [EMAIL PROTECTED] -To: hlds [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 11:36 AM -Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? - - - If you want the on board 3com NIC to work in linux you have to patch the - 3c59x code in your kernel source tree. Its like a 4 or 5 line patch. I - can give it to you if you need it. The drivers ASUS ships do not - workplus whomever created the make file was on crack or something. - - The 1700+ will work good but now you loose your 333Mhz FSB feature!! - - - On Wed, 2003-03-12 at 13:25, Stefan Huszics wrote: - Matt wrote: - - If anyone is looking for a good AMD board for a work -station, I suggest - the ASUS A7N8X Deluxe. - - I'll be building a new server on one of those this weekend -(or the next - depending on how mych time I can free up :) - Really like those 2x100Mbit built in Nicks. - Though I was feeling cheap and decided to get a XP1700+ (which will - hopefully overclock to XP2500+ or more) - - -- - /Stefan - - Software never has bugs. It just develops random features. =) - - - ___ - To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, -please visit: - http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux - -- - Matt - http://www.playway.net - - - - - ___ - To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, -please visit: - http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux - -___ -To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list -archives, please visit: -http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons?
I'm sorry, but you're wrong. I've been doing this for about 6 years now, and I think I've got a good grasp on what I'm talking about. The 2800 is on a different micron architecture than the 1700, #1. #2, they scale the CPUs based on yield on that CPU, not by randomly choosing which they're going to make a 2100, 2200, etc. Besides, again, you're talking about a server, not a gaming box, so I ask..wtf are you thinking? Your thought process is flawed, and your money management is questionable. *loves when he decides to return to the list and gets challenged* - Original Message - From: Stefan Huszics [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 2:56 PM Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? Ronin wrote: I wouldn't count on going to 2500+ speeds. That's a pretty damn healthy jump (600Mhz or so). Not when you consider that the exact same CPU core stepping is also sold as the XP 2800+ If you are going to overclock you should always get the smallest version of a specific CPU line (since it's the cheapest, but potentially can reach same clockrate the line top unit is sold as), and in this case the XP1700+ is the smallest brother of the XP 2800+. Thus XP 2500+ is definitly in the ballpark, and if I only reach XP 2200+, so what? CPU only costed $62. I can buy a new one in say 3 months if I happen to get a bad one. -- /Stefan Software never has bugs. It just develops random features. =) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons?
On Wed, Mar 12, 2003 at 02:27:45PM -0800, Ronin wrote: I wouldn't count on going to 2500+ speeds. That's a pretty damn healthy jump (600Mhz or so). Buying a processor for the express intent to OC is fine and dandy, but that's not what you want to do on a system that you plan on making your server. You compromise stability in the long run, and overall it's simply not a good idea. Leave overclocking to the maniacs with money to burn. I've never overclocked and never had CPU or strange issues. My friends that fancy themselves as the overclocker type all have major issues that they can never track down. Next thing they are buying a whole new system and start their idiot cycle again. -- James. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons?
Apparently that's exactly what he has, as he seems to think he's going to get better performance by buying a lower end processor and OCing it, and if it fries, so what...he goes to buy another, and by the time he's done with it, he would have saved the money in buying the one that had the speed he was shooting for to begin with. The guy is taking the extremes of OCing (by using HardOCP as an example) as his standard of what a CPU will or will not do. That's just a bad idea, period. - Original Message - From: James Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 3:09 PM Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? On Wed, Mar 12, 2003 at 02:27:45PM -0800, Ronin wrote: I wouldn't count on going to 2500+ speeds. That's a pretty damn healthy jump (600Mhz or so). Buying a processor for the express intent to OC is fine and dandy, but that's not what you want to do on a system that you plan on making your server. You compromise stability in the long run, and overall it's simply not a good idea. Leave overclocking to the maniacs with money to burn. I've never overclocked and never had CPU or strange issues. My friends that fancy themselves as the overclocker type all have major issues that they can never track down. Next thing they are buying a whole new system and start their idiot cycle again. -- James. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? [OT]
What I was talking about, could be applied either or... http://www.freebsd.org/releases/5.0R/early-adopter.html They say there that they pretty much reccommend that people wait for the 5.x stable. Or is that out yet? Anyways, like I said, I havent used 5.0 personally, as I moved most of my systems to gentoo. I am just going by that page, and by what other current freebsd gurus have told me. do what you want to do, just trying to help. ; ) kev --Original Message- -From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Drew -Broadley -Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 5:50 PM -To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? [OT] - - -Is this not a thread about starting a new machine, not upgrading ? -I am refering to a new build, not having to upgrade/cvsup at all. - -My bad if this is an upgrading topic. - -- Original Message - -From: Kevin J. Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] -To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 11:36 AM -Subject: RE: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? [OT] - - - I realise that fully. Have you not read the switching to 5.0 - articles/warnings on freebsd.org? - - --Original Message- - -From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - -[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Drew - -Broadley - -Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 5:31 PM - -To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - -Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? [OT] - - - - - -FreeBSD 5.0 is offically a RELEASE. - -http://www.freebsd.org/releases/5.0R/announce.html - -and going back to 4.8 defy's the point in using 5.0 as I was - -refering to its - -new SMP enhancements. - - - - - -- Original Message - - -From: Kevin J. Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] - -To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - -Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 11:21 AM - -Subject: RE: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? [OT] - - - - - - a word of warning, 5.0 still has a shitload of debugging stuff - -enabled by - - default, which slows down its performance enough that you might as -well - - stick w/ the 4.8 release. - - - - although I heard you can comment out some kernel options to -take that - - debugging out, bringing the performance back. I havent looked - -into it all - - that much. (been using gentoo primarily, also very secure -by default) - - - - kev - - - - --Original Message- - - -From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - - -[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Drew - - -Broadley - - -Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 3:41 PM - - -To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - - -Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? [OT] - - - - - - - - -FreeBSD 5.0 has had its SMP section reworked, and could be a - - -viable option. - - -See Here: - -http://www.freebsd.org/releases/5.0R/relnotes-i386.html#AEN401 - - - - - -Security has always been a high point of the *BSD distro's and - - -when you do a - - -clean - - -install of a system you will find limited ports being -opened, unlike - -many - - -linux distros where - - -you spend a fair amount of time locking down. - - - - - -I will be using FreeBSD 5.0 for my Dual MP 2000+ system, I am just - -waiting - - -on some Gig - - -ECC RAM sticks and then I will have it up next week, if - -anyone wants me - -to - - -keep them posted - - -on the performance and give some benchmark results as such - -just gimme a - - -yell. - - - - - -Hopefully the FreeBSD linux_base (linux emulation) has gotten - -rid of the - - -HLTV IP binding bug, - - -I should get onto informing someone of that... so much to do, - -so little - - -time! - - - - - --Drewpy - - - - - -- Original Message - - - -From: Me [EMAIL PROTECTED] - - -To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - - -Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 9:49 AM - - -Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? [OT] - - - - - - - - - Oh I agree 100%. Security is very important. It's really hard - - -to get my - - - clients to realize how important. To them, it's just a server - - -reinstall. - - - They refuse to grasp the true amount of damage that can be - -done with a - - - compromised system... sigh - - - - - - Me said: - - - I know of a good number of production servers still -running the - -2.2.x - - - kernel line. lol. - - - - - - 2.2.x is still maintained. Security patches are still being - -published. - - - - - - - - - All that said, your suggestion is a good one, just -not feasable - -under - - - some situations. - - - - - - True enough. In general, tracking the kernel just to be - - -current is not a - - - good idea, and is more likely to introduce even more - - -problems. However, - - - a keen watch for security related patches is important. - - - - - - Did you know that the iptables code was patched last year? -Without - -the - - - patch, it may be possible for a remote user to bypass - -your firewall. - - - This is a kernel patch that will require a reboot. But if the - - -box is not - - - a firewall, then no worries... it all depends on the use. My - - -suggestion - - - is merely to know what has been released, and if a security - - -patch is not - - - applied, there should be a reason
RE: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons?
lol, ive never overclocked a cpu in my life, except the odd really old system that I could care less if it died. I agree completely that its questionable to overclock a server, that you will rely on being up. I was just saying, that I've heard some outrageous over clocks w/ the new amds. maybe its just pure bs, maybe not. I have no idea. Was just tossign that out there. besides, you are mixing his comments w/ mine. ; ) kev --Original Message- -From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Ronin -Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 6:13 PM -To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? - - -Apparently that's exactly what he has, as he seems to think he's going to -get better performance by buying a lower end processor and OCing -it, and if -it fries, so what...he goes to buy another, and by the time he's done with -it, he would have saved the money in buying the one that had the speed he -was shooting for to begin with. - -The guy is taking the extremes of OCing (by using HardOCP as an -example) as -his standard of what a CPU will or will not do. That's just a bad idea, -period. -- Original Message - -From: James Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] -To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 3:09 PM -Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? - - - On Wed, Mar 12, 2003 at 02:27:45PM -0800, Ronin wrote: - I wouldn't count on going to 2500+ speeds. That's a pretty -damn healthy - jump (600Mhz or so). Buying a processor for the express -intent to OC is - fine and dandy, but that's not what you want to do on a -system that you -plan - on making your server. You compromise stability in the long run, and - overall it's simply not a good idea. - - Leave overclocking to the maniacs with money to burn. I've never - overclocked and never had CPU or strange issues. - - My friends that fancy themselves as the overclocker type all have major - issues that they can never track down. Next thing they are buying a - whole new system and start their idiot cycle again. - - -- - James. - - ___ - To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, -please visit: - http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux - -___ -To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list -archives, please visit: -http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? [OT]
Haha, sorry I didn't mean to make an aggressive impression. I appreciate the suggestions and I even re-read everything just incase something had changed :) I was just offering a healthy alternative especially since 5.0 is focused on SMP like the Linux 2.4.x kernel had networking revamped. - Original Message - From: Kevin J. Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 12:30 PM Subject: RE: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? [OT] What I was talking about, could be applied either or... http://www.freebsd.org/releases/5.0R/early-adopter.html They say there that they pretty much reccommend that people wait for the 5.x stable. Or is that out yet? Anyways, like I said, I havent used 5.0 personally, as I moved most of my systems to gentoo. I am just going by that page, and by what other current freebsd gurus have told me. do what you want to do, just trying to help. ; ) kev --Original Message- -From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Drew -Broadley -Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 5:50 PM -To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? [OT] - - -Is this not a thread about starting a new machine, not upgrading ? -I am refering to a new build, not having to upgrade/cvsup at all. - -My bad if this is an upgrading topic. - -- Original Message - -From: Kevin J. Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] -To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 11:36 AM -Subject: RE: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? [OT] - - - I realise that fully. Have you not read the switching to 5.0 - articles/warnings on freebsd.org? - - --Original Message- - -From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - -[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Drew - -Broadley - -Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 5:31 PM - -To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - -Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? [OT] - - - - - -FreeBSD 5.0 is offically a RELEASE. - -http://www.freebsd.org/releases/5.0R/announce.html - -and going back to 4.8 defy's the point in using 5.0 as I was - -refering to its - -new SMP enhancements. - - - - - -- Original Message - - -From: Kevin J. Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] - -To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - -Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 11:21 AM - -Subject: RE: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? [OT] - - - - - - a word of warning, 5.0 still has a shitload of debugging stuff - -enabled by - - default, which slows down its performance enough that you might as -well - - stick w/ the 4.8 release. - - - - although I heard you can comment out some kernel options to -take that - - debugging out, bringing the performance back. I havent looked - -into it all - - that much. (been using gentoo primarily, also very secure -by default) - - - - kev - - - - --Original Message- - - -From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - - -[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Drew - - -Broadley - - -Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 3:41 PM - - -To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - - -Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? [OT] - - - - - - - - -FreeBSD 5.0 has had its SMP section reworked, and could be a - - -viable option. - - -See Here: - -http://www.freebsd.org/releases/5.0R/relnotes-i386.html#AEN401 - - - - - -Security has always been a high point of the *BSD distro's and - - -when you do a - - -clean - - -install of a system you will find limited ports being -opened, unlike - -many - - -linux distros where - - -you spend a fair amount of time locking down. - - - - - -I will be using FreeBSD 5.0 for my Dual MP 2000+ system, I am just - -waiting - - -on some Gig - - -ECC RAM sticks and then I will have it up next week, if - -anyone wants me - -to - - -keep them posted - - -on the performance and give some benchmark results as such - -just gimme a - - -yell. - - - - - -Hopefully the FreeBSD linux_base (linux emulation) has gotten - -rid of the - - -HLTV IP binding bug, - - -I should get onto informing someone of that... so much to do, - -so little - - -time! - - - - - --Drewpy - - - - - -- Original Message - - - -From: Me [EMAIL PROTECTED] - - -To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - - -Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 9:49 AM - - -Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? [OT] - - - - - - - - - Oh I agree 100%. Security is very important. It's really hard - - -to get my - - - clients to realize how important. To them, it's just a server - - -reinstall. - - - They refuse to grasp the true amount of damage that can be - -done with a - - - compromised system... sigh - - - - - - Me said: - - - I know of a good number of production servers still -running the - -2.2.x - - - kernel line. lol. - - - - - - 2.2.x is still maintained. Security patches are still being - -published. - - - - - - - - - All that said, your suggestion is a good one, just -not feasable - -under - - - some situations. - - - - - - True enough. In general, tracking the kernel just to be - - -current
Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? [OT]
a word of warning, 5.0 still has a shitload of debugging stuff enabled by default, which slows down its performance enough that you might as well stick w/ the 4.8 release. Drew Broadley said: FreeBSD 5.0 is offically a RELEASE. It may be a RELEASE but it's not a STABLE. There is still debugging code and it is still slow. From the early adopter notes: A certain amount of debugging and diagnostic code is still in place to help track down problems in FreeBSD 5.0's new features. This may cause FreeBSD 5.0 to perform more slowly than 4-STABLE. -Mad ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? [OT]
It's always a trade-off. Increased security always means decreased usability. On Thu, 2003-03-13 at 09:49, Me wrote: Oh I agree 100%. Security is very important. It's really hard to get my clients to realize how important. To them, it's just a server reinstall. They refuse to grasp the true amount of damage that can be done with a compromised system... sigh And then you have those 'packet paranoid' people who just go too far. Blocking all ICMP? Theres a middle ground that needs to be found. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? [OT]
It's always a trade-off. Increased security always means decreased usability. On Thu, 2003-03-13 at 09:49, Me wrote: Oh I agree 100%. Security is very important. It's really hard to get my clients to realize how important. To them, it's just a server reinstall. They refuse to grasp the true amount of damage that can be done with a compromised system... sigh And then you have those 'packet paranoid' people who just go too far. Blocking all ICMP? Theres a middle ground that needs to be found. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? [OT]
On Thu, 2003-03-13 at 13:53, Me wrote: It's always a trade-off. Increased security always means decreased usability. No, theres no increased security, just increased stupidity. Breaking PMTU does not increase security, only decreases usability. No trade off there. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? [OT]
FreeBSD 4.6.2 / 4.7 are only classed as RELEASE aswel, there is CURRENT which is the development of 5.0 which soon will become 5.1-RELEASE a word of warning, 5.0 still has a shitload of debugging stuff enabled by default, which slows down its performance enough that you might as well stick w/ the 4.8 release. Drew Broadley said: FreeBSD 5.0 is offically a RELEASE. It may be a RELEASE but it's not a STABLE. There is still debugging code and it is still slow. From the early adopter notes: A certain amount of debugging and diagnostic code is still in place to help track down problems in FreeBSD 5.0's new features. This may cause FreeBSD 5.0 to perform more slowly than 4-STABLE. -Mad ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons?
IMHO you are both right. I'm not sure if the 1700+ is made at the same plants the 2400+ are but... Usually if a set number of CPUs fail QC test, they mark the rest of the lot at a lower speed and sell them. That doesn't mean the whole lot is slower... Now. Overclocking is a bad idea for performance OSes like Linux and FBSD. When used as a desktop your CPU won't go much above 50% often. That means it will rarely be pushing it's limits. Now, let's say you run a NS server on it, with Linux (which is much less tollerant of out-of-spec hardware) and it sits around 60-80% all the time. OCing it will produce so much more heat your gonna clobber that CPU even with the best air cooling solutions. I'm sorry, but you're wrong. I've been doing this for about 6 years now, and I think I've got a good grasp on what I'm talking about. The 2800 is on a different micron architecture than the 1700, #1. #2, they scale the CPUs based on yield on that CPU, not by randomly choosing which they're going to make a 2100, 2200, etc. Besides, again, you're talking about a server, not a gaming box, so I ask..wtf are you thinking? Your thought process is flawed, and your money management is questionable. *loves when he decides to return to the list and gets challenged* - Original Message - From: Stefan Huszics [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 2:56 PM Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? Ronin wrote: I wouldn't count on going to 2500+ speeds. That's a pretty damn healthy jump (600Mhz or so). Not when you consider that the exact same CPU core stepping is also sold as the XP 2800+ If you are going to overclock you should always get the smallest version of a specific CPU line (since it's the cheapest, but potentially can reach same clockrate the line top unit is sold as), and in this case the XP1700+ is the smallest brother of the XP 2800+. Thus XP 2500+ is definitly in the ballpark, and if I only reach XP 2200+, so what? CPU only costed $62. I can buy a new one in say 3 months if I happen to get a bad one. -- /Stefan Software never has bugs. It just develops random features. =) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons?
OTOH, he could just be doing it for fun. I've done that on occasion. If that's the case, more power to him. It's always cool to see how far you can push hardware. Just don't expect stability or logevity (sp?). Apparently that's exactly what he has, as he seems to think he's going to get better performance by buying a lower end processor and OCing it, and if it fries, so what...he goes to buy another, and by the time he's done with it, he would have saved the money in buying the one that had the speed he was shooting for to begin with. The guy is taking the extremes of OCing (by using HardOCP as an example) as his standard of what a CPU will or will not do. That's just a bad idea, period. - Original Message - From: James Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 3:09 PM Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? On Wed, Mar 12, 2003 at 02:27:45PM -0800, Ronin wrote: I wouldn't count on going to 2500+ speeds. That's a pretty damn healthy jump (600Mhz or so). Buying a processor for the express intent to OC is fine and dandy, but that's not what you want to do on a system that you plan on making your server. You compromise stability in the long run, and overall it's simply not a good idea. Leave overclocking to the maniacs with money to burn. I've never overclocked and never had CPU or strange issues. My friends that fancy themselves as the overclocker type all have major issues that they can never track down. Next thing they are buying a whole new system and start their idiot cycle again. -- James. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons?
Wasn't directed at you, Kevin. I know you know better :p - Original Message - From: Kevin J. Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 3:36 PM Subject: RE: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? lol, ive never overclocked a cpu in my life, except the odd really old system that I could care less if it died. I agree completely that its questionable to overclock a server, that you will rely on being up. I was just saying, that I've heard some outrageous over clocks w/ the new amds. maybe its just pure bs, maybe not. I have no idea. Was just tossign that out there. besides, you are mixing his comments w/ mine. ; ) kev --Original Message- -From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Ronin -Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 6:13 PM -To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? - - -Apparently that's exactly what he has, as he seems to think he's going to -get better performance by buying a lower end processor and OCing -it, and if -it fries, so what...he goes to buy another, and by the time he's done with -it, he would have saved the money in buying the one that had the speed he -was shooting for to begin with. - -The guy is taking the extremes of OCing (by using HardOCP as an -example) as -his standard of what a CPU will or will not do. That's just a bad idea, -period. -- Original Message - -From: James Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] -To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 3:09 PM -Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? - - - On Wed, Mar 12, 2003 at 02:27:45PM -0800, Ronin wrote: - I wouldn't count on going to 2500+ speeds. That's a pretty -damn healthy - jump (600Mhz or so). Buying a processor for the express -intent to OC is - fine and dandy, but that's not what you want to do on a -system that you -plan - on making your server. You compromise stability in the long run, and - overall it's simply not a good idea. - - Leave overclocking to the maniacs with money to burn. I've never - overclocked and never had CPU or strange issues. - - My friends that fancy themselves as the overclocker type all have major - issues that they can never track down. Next thing they are buying a - whole new system and start their idiot cycle again. - - -- - James. - - ___ - To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, -please visit: - http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux - -___ -To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list -archives, please visit: -http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons?
I had an 800 mHz Celeron running at 1200 on my server for like a month and half until we upgraded. It actually helped. And things somehow didn't get more unstable. - Tyler [TASF]Overkill Schwend Semper facere bonum, an a amare odium, vita mors. --- Server operator of [LCGA]Telefragged: Counter-Strike: telefragged.lynchburg.edu:27015 http://schwend-t.web.lynchburg.edu ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons?
Guess if he's got the money to blow if something happens, more power to him. - Original Message - From: Me [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 5:07 PM Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? OTOH, he could just be doing it for fun. I've done that on occasion. If that's the case, more power to him. It's always cool to see how far you can push hardware. Just don't expect stability or logevity (sp?). Apparently that's exactly what he has, as he seems to think he's going to get better performance by buying a lower end processor and OCing it, and if it fries, so what...he goes to buy another, and by the time he's done with it, he would have saved the money in buying the one that had the speed he was shooting for to begin with. The guy is taking the extremes of OCing (by using HardOCP as an example) as his standard of what a CPU will or will not do. That's just a bad idea, period. - Original Message - From: James Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 3:09 PM Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? On Wed, Mar 12, 2003 at 02:27:45PM -0800, Ronin wrote: I wouldn't count on going to 2500+ speeds. That's a pretty damn healthy jump (600Mhz or so). Buying a processor for the express intent to OC is fine and dandy, but that's not what you want to do on a system that you plan on making your server. You compromise stability in the long run, and overall it's simply not a good idea. Leave overclocking to the maniacs with money to burn. I've never overclocked and never had CPU or strange issues. My friends that fancy themselves as the overclocker type all have major issues that they can never track down. Next thing they are buying a whole new system and start their idiot cycle again. -- James. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons?
Mad Scientist wrote: Stefan Huszics said: Gees, now you are just making a fool out of yourself. There is absolutely NOTHING that can blow from overclocking as long as you keep within the specifed voltages and MHz speeds for which the CPU was designed. Temperature... electron migration... slow death... chip becomes less and less stable until eventually it won't even start up. Did you miss the part of my post that sais within the specifed voltages and MHz speeds for which the CPU was designed? If you have 2 CPUs with the same * core stepping * produced the same week at the same factory * running at the same speed voltage then one CPU won't take any more damage then the other if the label on one sais eg XP 1700+ and the other XP 2500+ Only if you are running with a higher voltage, worse cooling or older architecture do you get the issues you are talking about. -- /Stefan Software never has bugs. It just develops random features. =) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? [OT]
On Thu, 2003-03-13 at 14:59, Me wrote: Security should never impact usability of something. If it does, then something is not doing what it was designed to do. That's just plain wrong. I guess I just need to give you an example our you just can't see it. Let's say you are sitting behind a firewall that has all ports blocked that you are not using. Now let's say you want to put up a game server. You will have to open up ports so that the game server can accept connections from the Internet. So your security will have to change to reflect your new uses for your computer. Now, let's say you have a personal firewall like Zonealarm loaded on your PC. You download a new MMPG. The new game of course tries to access the Internet but Zonealarm stops it. Now Zone Alarm really makes it easy to change your security model but it does require a change. That's usability. Now you could configure Zone Alarm to allow any program to access the internet. Thus decreasing your level of security but increasing your usability. All the above examples show situations where the security measure was in your control. What if the firwall was at your ISP and they didn't allow modifications. You would have to switch ISPs or forget about the game. That is usability. See now. I said I wasn't gonna do it and I went and done it anyway. lol First off, all above points are made in regard to client, not server applications. Follow the thread you will see we were talking about server security. Next ZoneAlarm is not a firewall (packetfilter != firewall). Look at it this way. you have a CS server with no firewall. You add a firewall that blocks all traffic other than CS related traffic, and change the user running cs to a non privilaged one. You have now added security, without forsaking any usability. As for giving me lessons regarding security. When implimenting security measures they should never impact the service itself, if it does, chances are the service was being used/setup wrong in the first place. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons?
Did you know that you'd never get be stable at the speeds you're talking without modifying the voltage to make sure that it is stable? You're showing ignorance again just by your comments. Scaling the voltage (DDR as well as CPU) as you increase the multiplier and the FSB is the only way to keep it stable. I'd love to be over your shoulder when you attempt this and laugh as you make feeble attempts. If you'd like, I can write you a walkthrough on how to properly overclock a processor, whether it be AMD or Intel, just so you have some sort of guideline to follow, because at present, you're asking for trouble, or disappointment. Try being less defensive and more open minded, and understand that there are people out there that know a helluva lot more than you do. :) Ronin Counter-Server Site Administrator http://server.counter-strike.net - Original Message - From: Stefan Huszics [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 5:35 PM Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? Mad Scientist wrote: Stefan Huszics said: Gees, now you are just making a fool out of yourself. There is absolutely NOTHING that can blow from overclocking as long as you keep within the specifed voltages and MHz speeds for which the CPU was designed. Temperature... electron migration... slow death... chip becomes less and less stable until eventually it won't even start up. Did you miss the part of my post that sais within the specifed voltages and MHz speeds for which the CPU was designed? If you have 2 CPUs with the same * core stepping * produced the same week at the same factory * running at the same speed voltage then one CPU won't take any more damage then the other if the label on one sais eg XP 1700+ and the other XP 2500+ Only if you are running with a higher voltage, worse cooling or older architecture do you get the issues you are talking about. -- /Stefan Software never has bugs. It just develops random features. =) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons?
Tyler \Overkill\ Schwend said: I like cheese. And I have friends. Ease up guys. It's just a game. Er, a thread, or a processor, or whatever. wtf are you talking about? Short quotes are good. No quotes are as bad as full quotes. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons?
wtf are you talking about? Short quotes are good. No quotes are as bad as full quotes. Mad, the conversation got really hostile all the sudden over something pretty stupid. Just a reminder of what we're all dealing with. - Tyler [TASF]Overkill Schwend Semper facere bonum, an a amare odium, vita mors. --- Server operator of [LCGA]Telefragged: Counter-Strike: telefragged.lynchburg.edu:27015 http://schwend-t.web.lynchburg.edu ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons?
Stefan Huszics said: Did you miss the part of my post that sais within the specifed voltages and MHz speeds for which the CPU was designed? The CPU is designed to run at the speed stamped on the box. It will run fine at that speed. What's that got to do with overclocking? If you have 2 CPUs with the same * core stepping * produced the same week at the same factory * running at the same speed voltage then one CPU won't take any more damage then the other if the label on one sais eg XP 1700+ and the other XP 2500+ Only if you are running with a higher voltage, worse cooling or older architecture do you get the issues you are talking about. You're wrong. The reason one is rated lower is because it failed to function properly at the higher rate. The reason it failed was because it ran too hot or was otherwise unstable. It was unstable because of minute flaws in the chip. The factories are not perfect. Each chip is different. They rate them based on what they are guaranteed to run at. Any faster and you risk overheating and damaging the chip. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons?
Anyone that knows me I'm not hostile. I just have a hard time dealing with ignorance. Good thing I don't do this on my forums, eh? :p Wellnm *grins* - Original Message - From: Tyler Overkill Schwend [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 6:00 PM Subject: RE: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? wtf are you talking about? Short quotes are good. No quotes are as bad as full quotes. Mad, the conversation got really hostile all the sudden over something pretty stupid. Just a reminder of what we're all dealing with. - Tyler [TASF]Overkill Schwend Semper facere bonum, an a amare odium, vita mors. --- Server operator of [LCGA]Telefragged: Counter-Strike: telefragged.lynchburg.edu:27015 http://schwend-t.web.lynchburg.edu ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons?
Tyler \Overkill\ Schwend said: wtf are you talking about? Mad, the conversation got really hostile all the sudden over something pretty stupid. Just a reminder of what we're all dealing with. Oh, OK. Must have been those parts of the posts I ignored... Thanks for the quote so I have a clue now :P ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? [OT]
FreeBSD 5.0 is offically a RELEASE. Does that differ, then, from STABLE? RELEASE == STABLE CURRENT == DEV Afaik, that has been the practise I have been following (and have been taught) and had no problems of hitting development kernels or any addition/debugging output. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? [OT]
Jeremy Brooking said: When implimenting security measures they should never impact the service itself, if it does, chances are the service was being used/setup wrong in the first place. For the most part, this is true. However, security measures such as multi-factor authentication add difficulty to the user while increasing security, so they can slow down or otherwise annoy the user. But the user can still perform their tasks as required. So security can impede use but not prohibit it where required, thus not reducing functionality. Therefore, the axiom more security = less usability does not hold in all cases. -Mad ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons?
Ronin wrote: I'm still waiting for you to prove that you have knowledge above and beyond anything short of basic. I'm not seeing it. Well, sometimes you can't see the wood for all the trees ;) At least I backed up what I had to say. Can you? You backed up what? I didn't see any references anywhere or explanations of terms. All I've seen you do is blatantly state that I'm wrong providing 0 evidence for the case. I don't think you understand anything about Well I guess that is your problem, but here it goes CPU yields An average of how many good CPUs you get from a wafer (do I need to explain what a wafer is also? :D ) relative the maximum amount that fits. Often it's also (miss)used as a term of the quality of the CPUs you get from the manufaturing process (ie high yield = many/most of the CPUs are good enough to qualify in the top speed bins). cores The CPU without the cashe. CPU architecture I've been using it in the manner of grouping the same core stepping. But I guess formally it's suppoed to represent eg the intel x86 architecture. Another one of those words that are used in more then one sence in dayly speach. Voltage U = R * I Do I need to be more specific? FSB speeds The MB main busspeed that Intels marketing department a few years back (when PII arrived with it's ½ CPU clock L2 cache) though would be nice to rename into Front Side Bus (for no good reason at all other to have a new nice expression to create hype around). PCI, AGP, Memory and ISA busses used to have specific fractions of this main MB busspeed to determine it's clock (cheap effective way to keep all busses peudosynced, but troublesome if you want to overclock some parts but not others). or anything that has to do with what you want to do. I guess it might be worth mentioning CPU multiplier too, which on my Cel 300 is 4.5 x making it run at [EMAIL PROTECTED] FSB and 450MHz@ 100MHz FSB. -- /Stefan Software never has bugs. It just develops random features. =) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? [OT]
On Thu, 2003-03-13 at 15:10, Mad Scientist wrote: Jeremy Brooking said: When implimenting security measures they should never impact the service itself, if it does, chances are the service was being used/setup wrong in the first place. For the most part, this is true. However, security measures such as multi-factor authentication add difficulty to the user while increasing security, so they can slow down or otherwise annoy the user. But the user can still perform their tasks as required. So security can impede use but not prohibit it where required, thus not reducing functionality. Therefore, the axiom more security = less usability does not hold in all cases. Agreed, the user has to go through a greater length of 'security' to get the SAME amount of 'usability' out of it :) But the functionality/usability remains. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? [OT]
Drew Broadley said: RELEASE == STABLE CURRENT == DEV Negative. For 4.x, RELEASE == STABLE; CURRENT == DEV. For 5.0, RELEASE == CURRENT == DEV. STABLE != EXISTS. It's in the release notes... ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? [OT]
Yes, I am. Excuse me for using Microsoft software, I'm such an idiot. I just don't see the point in changing the subject line in a thread that's already begun. - Tyler [TASF]Overkill Schwend Semper facere bonum, an a amare odium, vita mors. --- Server operator of [LCGA]Telefragged: Counter-Strike: telefragged.lynchburg.edu:27015 http://schwend-t.web.lynchburg.edu ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? [OT]
On Wed, 2003-03-12 at 14:18, Tyler Overkill Schwend wrote: Yes, I am. Excuse me for using Microsoft software, I'm such an idiot. I just don't see the point in changing the subject line in a thread that's already begun. If A: your client cant handle that, then its thats your problem. Check your mail source and you will see... your message and id: From: Tyler \Overkill\ Schwend [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? [OT] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] simons reply: Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Simon Garner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] References: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Notice how he creates a new ID and then sets your message ID as the Reference header? This is how threading is done (as well as the In-Reply-To header in some cases) If your client does thread on this, then it is breaking a commonly practised standard. and B: He was setting it [OT] As it had gone Off Topic, he was doing this for the benifit of those who filter OT messages. C: Simon is also using MS software for his mail. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons?
From my personal experience and that of other techs I work with, Tyan motherboards have a high rate of defects. Although they have a nice set of features, your chances of getting hosed are much higher if you go with them. Get a twin set of p4 2.8ghz xeons with 8gb of ram and a SATA RAID, solve your problems? if you want to run the motherload on your server, get the 2mb cache edition procs and you can run a ton of servers off of two procs because the HT in the xeons shows up as two processors. I know Tyan makes a quad board for it now which supports 32GB of ram, so to the system thats 8 processors and 32gb of ram, all in one little package. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? [OT]
On Wednesday, March 12, 2003 2:18 PM [GMT+1200=NZT], Tyler Overkill Schwend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, I am. Excuse me for using Microsoft software, I'm such an idiot. I just don't see the point in changing the subject line in a thread that's already begun. Lemme see... maybe so that those who filter out [OT] messages can have subsequent messages in the thread filtered out? Also I don't know what MS software you're using, but the versions of OE and Outlook I've seen do threading by message ID, not by subject. Threading by subject would be utterly braindead... -Simon ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? [OT]
I'm sorry, I'm PMSing right now. I'm going to go take some Beano. - Tyler [TASF]Overkill Schwend Semper facere bonum, an a amare odium, vita mors. --- Server operator of [LCGA]Telefragged: Counter-Strike: telefragged.lynchburg.edu:27015 http://schwend-t.web.lynchburg.edu ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? [OT]
On Wed, 2003-03-12 at 14:28, Jeremy Brooking wrote: This is how threading is done (as well as the In-Reply-To header in some cases) If your client does thread on this, then it is breaking a commonly practised standard. That should be 'does not thread on this' sorry. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] Dualie Athlons? [OT]
I'm running Outlook 2000 Threaded view, and it certainly seems to do threading by subject Maybe it's just trying to piss me off. /me damns everything. - Tyler [TASF]Overkill Schwend Semper facere bonum, an a amare odium, vita mors. --- Server operator of [LCGA]Telefragged: Counter-Strike: telefragged.lynchburg.edu:27015 http://schwend-t.web.lynchburg.edu ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
