Re: License keys for ISV products(What alternatives are there?)
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Ed Finnell [ snip ] The silver bullet would be a magic decoder ring on the HMC that says this can run and this can't. Doubt we'll see that anytime soon. IFAPRDxx ? -jc- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: License keys for ISV products(What alternatives are there?)
On 17 Feb 2007 21:25:28 -0800, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote: On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 22:02:15 -0600, Russell Witt wrote: Just because you bought the CPC from a broker; you still have maintenance. Granted, there might be some companies that rely strictly on third-party hardware support; but not many. If you have IBM hardware support; then again IBM knows what you have. This is a very big advantage to them. Well, there is IBM and then there is $IBM. While the service division might be aware of what hardware an account has on site, the accounting unit within IBM is notorious for not having the software inventory up to date (and probably doesn't have the hardware inventory up to date, too). For example, ShopzSeries can not be used by my present site for DB2 V8 because the IBMers have not successfully updated the account's inventory although they have been trying for many months (maybe 6 or more?). Our site also signed a new ELA back in October that included some new software and we have not been able to download that software from ShopzSeries to date because the ELA's updates have not made it into the inventory. Don't even get me started on the invoices from IBM -- I have only been looking at them for customers since 1985 and I have NEVER seen one be completely correct from IBM. Back around 1967, my boss got so enraged with the IBM billing inaccuracy that he called Tom Watson. I don't know if he got through but he did get a response and at least a temporary relief for the problem. So, no, don't use IBM as an example of a company with a clue how to deal with keys. I suspect IBM does not use keys for that very reason. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: License keys for ISV products(What alternatives are there?)
IFAPRDxx really isn't a key. You have to turn it on for each product to use it, but there is no key that only works on your CPU. I'm not sure just what IBM's reasoning behind IFAPRD is, but the only way IBM could limit your use of different software products using IFAPRD would be if IBM was present during your IPLs and monitored IFAPRD's contents just after the IPL. This has been a very interesting discussion. A few of the vendors have givin very good reasons for having keys. This comes at a time when I was givin the task to renew our Syncsort keys. I found that negotiating the contract was part of the process, which is something I won't have to do, fortuneatly for me. When they get the contract process done, I'll just have to install the keys. By the way, does anyone know if Syncsort's key is a hard fail key? I suspect it is after a grace period. I think its interesting that so many sysprogs on the list hate keys so much. I think a lot of it is just poor business practices when you can't get a key in time. Yes, there are a few vendors who are only available 9-5 M-F, which could be a problem in a real disaster, but most of the major ones can respond 24 by 7. Eric Bielefeld Sr. z/OS Systems Programmer Lands End Dodgeville, Wisconsin 414-475-7434 - Original Message - From: Chase, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: License keys for ISV products(What alternatives are there?) -Original Message- . IFAPRDxx ? -jc- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: License keys for ISV products(What alternatives are there?)
In a recent note, Tom Schmidt said: Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2007 23:31:25 -0600 What about sites that cannot allow any system-driven connections to the outside? (See the DIACAP military requirements that Defense contractors have to abide by for details.) Phoning home is not an option, especially for higher-security systems. In these cases the vendor is not trusted, at least not enough for that type of contact. Well, you can't fight the military -- they've got the big guns. But short of that, there seems to be an opportunity for a single well-audited (source code available) component through which every phone home would filter, verifying its parameter list against a data base of permissible message recipients and contents, etc. -- gil -- StorageTek INFORMATION made POWERFUL -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
SDSF -- Context for [R]FIND?
ISPF regular Edit/Browse/View have the nice feature that when I do a [R]FIND, the target is displayed on the second text line rather than the top. The context is valuable. How can I get SDSF data set views to have the same behavior? Likewise, in Edit/Browse/View, if the target of RFIND is visible without scrolling (I consider this a major advantage of ISPF (and many other editors over XEDIT), it's simply highlited with no unneeded scrolling. How can I get SDSF views to have the same friendly behavior? (BTW, I discovered by accident that SDSF ISFPCU41 DATA SET DISPLAY (but not ISFPCU41 STATUS DISPLAY) has a V prefix command, apparently not documented in the Tutorial pages, which seems to do the same as S. Is this actually a synonym, or does it have additional useful behavior?) As I said the line of preceding context in Edit/Browse/View is nice, but I'd like more, perhaps three lines. How can I get ISPF to display the search target on a user-selected line (as I can in XEDIT), rather than always on the second line, short of spending a PF key for UP 3 and an additional transaction for each RFIND? Thanks, gil -- StorageTek INFORMATION made POWERFUL -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SDSF -- Context for [R]FIND?
In a message dated 2/18/2007 10:36:52 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: apparently not documented in the Tutorial pages, which seems to do the same as S. Is this actually a synonym, or does it have additional useful behavior?) It's not real pretty, but it's a graphics viewer. Why not G, I don't know. I've used it to look at spooled AFP data and most of the time get malformed object or something, but it prints fine on continuous or cut sheet AFP printers. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: License keys for ISV products(What alternatives are there?)
By the way, does anyone know if Syncsort's key is a hard fail key? I suspect it is after a grace period. 30 days. And, during that time you have to run SYNCPR (I think that's the spelling), which they supply. - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: VTOC rename
I did open a PMR, and they told me that the inconsistent VTOCIX name was the cause of the problem. Later, when I post my considerations to the list and read your update, I started to think that the name inconsistency alone had nothing to do with it. Then I found this SER NO field, and decided to delete/build the VTOCIX from scratch, which worked. I can't prove it, but I think that if I'd have renamed the VTOCIX alone, i.e. with IEHPROGM, the problem would be still there. Even if IBM Level 2 was right, this is not a documented requirement. But I think you are correct about the SERNO field. I have a tool which can modify the field, so I will try to run a test. -- Bruce A. Black Senior Software Developer for FDR Innovation Data Processing 973-890-7300 personal: [EMAIL PROTECTED] sales info: [EMAIL PROTECTED] tech support: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.innovationdp.fdr.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Aux shortage - can't shut down
If you have any logged on user then go to sdsf da panel issue command sort real d then cancel the non-critical job consuming more storage JAcky -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: License keys for ISV products(What alternatives are there?)
--snip-- IFAPRDxx really isn't a key. You have to turn it on for each product to use it, but there is no key that only works on your CPU. I'm not sure just what IBM's reasoning behind IFAPRD is, but the only way IBM could limit your use of different software products using IFAPRD would be if IBM was present during your IPLs and monitored IFAPRD's contents just after the IPL. unsnip-- But why couldn't IFAPRDxx contain a vendor's key in one of the supported fields, instead of a english description of the software, for example? The key could be maintained on the fly (checked daily by the vendor package until expiration; then checked at each invocation) and all the keys would be in one simple, central repository. And why can't vendor code provide timely expiration warnings? And reasonable grace periods after expiration or for DR purposes? Comments were that the accounting department might be a little slow in reacting to a required renewal. Give them their due; they're trying to be protective of company assets, too. And some organizations, like my last one, require that the Legal department ALSO review anything and everything. So Accounting may be willing to cut the check, but Legal may be resting on its laurels and delaying the process. Vendors have an obligation to their shareholders to protect their intellectual property, and try to limit liability in case of abuses; I can accept that. But let's face it, some vendors' pricing practices are downright PREDATORY. First they hook you into using their products, then impose unconscionable price increases after the so-called introductory period. In my personnal experience, one vendor sent 9 marketting reps to my office, when all I had requested was a copy of the proposed contract, which could have been FAXed to me! Bloated marketting staff with nothing to do; I'm sure other areas of staff are similarly bloated; all these things contribute to high prices and loss of fexibility. Compuware built a nice shiny new headquarters building in downtown Detroit, then promptly laid off 5,000 people to cut costs. Too many pencil pushers and not enough technicians! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SMF Record Types 63, 67, 68 and 69
-snip--- Greetings, I am working to finalize another level of DAF. I am thinking about removing support for SMF record Types 63, 67, 68 and 69. These SMF record types were used soley for VSAM catalogs, which stopped functioning on 1/1/2000. Most installtions keep general SMF data for a period of weeks or months, not years. Does anyone have SMF record Types 63, 67, 68 and 69 retained for more than 7 years? ---unsnip-- My last company required keeping the SMF data for 10 years; something about the rules being different for a fiduciary was what I was told. I never looked at anything that old, but I was told we HAD to keep it. Many thanks for an excellent product; saved my bacon more than once! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBMLink SIS is FINALLY re-integrated
But no IBMLINK news to describe the change (yet) -- Bruce A. Black Senior Software Developer for FDR Innovation Data Processing 973-890-7300 personal: [EMAIL PROTECTED] sales info: [EMAIL PROTECTED] tech support: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.innovationdp.fdr.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: License keys for ISV products(What alternatives are there?)
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 08:54:53 -0600, Eric N. Bielefeld [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This has been a very interesting discussion. A few of the vendors have givin very good reasons for having keys. This comes at a time when I was givin the task to renew our Syncsort keys. I found that negotiating the contract was part of the process, which is something I won't have to do, fortuneatly for me. When they get the contract process done, I'll just have to install the keys. By the way, does anyone know if Syncsort's key is a hard fail key? I suspect it is after a grace period. I think its interesting that so many sysprogs on the list hate keys so much. I think a lot of it is just poor business practices when you can't get a key in time. Yes, there are a few vendors who are only available 9-5 M-F, which could be a problem in a real disaster, but most of the major ones can respond 24 by 7. Yes a very interesting discussion indeed . There are arguments from each side I wonder what people would say if Microsoft was putting an expiring license key inside W2k or Office in our professional PC's Although everybody knows forbidden usage happens , keys are normaly used only in private PC's . If it was not so , we would not be able to handle deploiement of thousands of work stations . Software vendors recognise that and do not stop us from installing or running products whether we have 1000 or 25000 PC's .They trust us in our yearly negotiation. Just imagine your 5000 users without workstation one morning ? or 5000 warning messages at the help desk ? Oh boy ! What would happen when you replace the 5000 Netvista with 5000 Dell or NEC I would have to enter 3000 keys for 5000 machines because i have only 3000 users for Pcomm or excell ? I remember an antispam product that let the spam flow during a weekend because the license was expired . The fact is : i do not remember its brand anymore :-)) Trust is something that should go both ways . Why would customers trust marketing rep trying to sell software at 2 times the price it will eventually agree, everytime we need new keys ? Everytime a guy comes with a 300 000 dollars tag , we know we should be able to get it for 150 000. This behaviour is like asking us to pay for more machines or more MIPS than we actually have ! When we are billed for DB2, there is a price multiplied by an MSU consumption and that's it , not much for negociation . But no time wasted for bargaining or keys obtention , no DR problems , smooth business . So i agree that IBM is definietely not the model . Microsoft is not either . But allow me to find it difficult to do business with people who do not trust me and try to rob me . Cut smf records , get them from me and bill me accordingly , i'll allow you to come and see my systems . Bruno Bruno(dot)sugliani(at)groupemornay(dot)asso(dot)fr -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBMLink SIS is FINALLY re-integrated
- Original Message - From: Bruce Black [EMAIL PROTECTED] Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 1:27 PM Subject: Re: IBMLink SIS is FINALLY re-integrated But no IBMLINK news to describe the change (yet) Bruce, The clueless punks who made the change and won't own up to it are trying to slink away like it never happened. Tom -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: License keys for ISV products(What alternatives are there?)
In a message dated 2/18/2007 12:32:37 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I wonder what people would say if Microsoft was putting an expiring license key inside W2k or Office in our professional PC's Although everybody knows forbidden usage happens , keys are normaly used only in private PC's . If it was not so , we would not be able to handle deploiement of thousands of work stations . Software vendors recognise that and do not stop us from installing or running products whether we have 1000 or 25000 PC's .They trust us in our yearly negotiation. I've seen a PC with seven dongles and during an upgrade the 3rd one was dropped and lots of stuff quit working. The shame of it all! There's a license key for all the new M$ stuff and must be reinstalled(most of the time) during upgrades and replacements. Software piracy is a huge industry. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBMLink SIS is FINALLY re-integrated
In a message dated 2/18/2007 12:39:40 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The clueless punks who made the change and won't own up to it are trying to slink away like it never happened. What was the old FedEx add? 'Run it by Rizzo, pass it by Pooperman' They're probably outsourced by now and waiting for a ruling from the legal beagles on who can approve a change that was overlooked in the previous rendition of an all new addition subtracting function and usability from the end-users perspective. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: License keys for ISV products(What alternatives are there?)
From: Bruno Sugliani [EMAIL PROTECTED] Everytime a guy comes with a 300 000 dollars tag , we know we should be able to get it for 150 000. Cut smf records , get them from me and bill me accordingly , i'll allow you to come and see my systems . My product only costs a tiny fraction of the amounts you mentioned. But if I had to visit each customer site everytime a license came up for renewal, the price could easily double to a 5 figure number. IMO, any solution that takes into account keeping costs as low as possible should not require any kind of on-site inspection. Dave Salt SimpList(tm) - The easiest, most powerful way to surf a mainframe! http://www.mackinney.com/products/SIM/simplist.htm _ Find out the restaurants participating in Winterlicious http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2cp=43.658648~-79.383962style=rlvl=15tilt=-90dir=0alt=-1000scene=3702663cid=7ABE80D1746919B4!1329 From January 26 to February 8, 2007 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SDSF -- Context for [R]FIND?
From: Paul Gilmartin [EMAIL PROTECTED] How can I get ISPF to display the search target on a user-selected line (as I can in XEDIT), rather than always on the second line, short of spending a PF key for UP 3 and an additional transaction for each RFIND? In an edit session, enter EDSET on the command line. You'll see a panel with various selectable options, including the following: Target line for Find/Change/Exclude string . . . . . . 4 Hope that helps, Dave Salt SimpList(tm) - The easiest, most powerful way to surf a mainframe! http://www.mackinney.com/products/SIM/simplist.htm _ Your Space. Your Friends. Your Stories. Share your world with Windows Live Spaces. http://spaces.live.com/?mkt=en-ca -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: License keys for ISV products(What alternatives are there?)
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Fochtman Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 11:20 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: License keys for ISV products(What alternatives are there?) /snip/ Vendors have an obligation to their shareholders to protect their intellectual property, and try to limit liability in case of abuses; I can accept that. But let's face it, some vendors' pricing practices are downright PREDATORY. First they hook you into using their products, then impose unconscionable price increases after the so-called introductory period. In my personnal experience, one vendor sent 9 marketting reps to my office, when all I had requested was a copy of the proposed contract, which could have been FAXed to me! Bloated marketting staff with nothing to do; I'm sure other areas of staff are similarly bloated; all these things contribute to high prices and loss of fexibility. Compuware built a nice shiny new headquarters building in downtown Detroit, then promptly laid off 5,000 people to cut costs. Too many pencil pushers and not enough technicians! Now you're starting a different subthread. Keys to protect intellectual property have not much correlation with the pricing model. Usage-based pricing model is for leased software, not purchased software (like M$ Excel). There is a huge difference between leased versus purchased software licensing models. Purchase software, like M$ Excel, generally have limitations on upgrades, operating system, and support life (bug fixes). You pay once, and get bug fixes on a somewhat timely basis until end of support. Installing the software phones home and identifies itself to be sure that the particular serial-numbered software is not already installed elsewhere. This is a reasonable way to protect against piracy, but it may be a problem for some mainframe sites that want to be isolated from the outside world. Leased software, like much of the mainframe software out there, has some kind usage-based pricing that hopes to correlate the cost of the software to the benefit received. The customer receives bug fixes, new versions, and support for newer operating systems. If the customer does not perceive the benefit as being greater than the cost, then the customer stops paying and the product stops operating. Most CFO's use the concept of a hurdle rate that specifies the rate of return on any investment. The benefit must exceed a certain multiplier applied to the cost of the investment. Usage-based pricing has many challenges. Is it per user, machine capacity, or per transaction (i.e., metered usage). If it is metered usage, how is the usage measured and reported (e.g, intrusiveness and accuracy are primary concerns). If it is machine capacity, how to accommodate periods of low activity versus high activity (end of quarter and end of year processing)? If it is per user, how quickly can the ISV accommodate changes in user quota? The notion of using dongles (a hardware device with a programmatically accessible serial number) is one way to assure that the software is running on the correct machine. The mainframe CPU serial number serves the same purpose. The MAC address for a network card also serves the same purpose, but is harder to verify programmatically on a mainframe. All of the concerns and issues mentioned above must somehow be distilled into a license key implementation that does not add unnecessarily to the sysprog burden. I understand that customers dont want to become dependent on leased software that expires and shuts down during critical times. However, there must be some reasonable cut-off point when negotiations break-down at contract renewal time. If the customer and vendor cannot agree on a new contract, then the product must stop operating. Where will you draw the line; 30 days, 60 days, 180 days, more? How long will customer get a free ride on a mission-critical ISV software? Until a replacement can be found or built? Does the contract allow for defaulting to month-to-month fees until a new long-term contract is negotiated (or the customer has gotten past their critical end-of-quarter processing)? What if there are no acceptable replacement products and the customer is unable or unwilling to build their own replacement? Disaster recovery on unknown machines (why are they unknown?) is a big issue. Many license key implementations are awkward and difficult to manage. Complain to the ISV and be specific about the issues. Pricing models are entirely a different matter that have little correlation to the license key implementation. Let's be clear in this topic when discussing pricing models versus license key implementation. License keys are never going away. However, bad implementations should go away. Jeffrey D. Smith Principal Product Architect Farsight Systems Corporation 700 KEN PRATT BLVD. #204-159 LONGMONT, CO 80501-6452 303-774-9381 direct
Re: License keys for ISV products(What alternatives are there?)
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 19:17:48 +, Dave Salt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My product only costs a tiny fraction of the amounts you mentioned. But if I had to visit each customer site everytime a license came up for renewal, the price could easily double to a 5 figure number. IMO, any solution that takes into account keeping costs as low as possible should not require any kind of on-site inspection. Yes Dave and i agree with you . (apart that if it doubles to a 5 figure number it is already half a five figure number :-)) ) I never had an onsite inspection from any vendors ( including IBM who asks me to sign on my honor or whatever that i do not fiddle with the records for sysplex pricing for example ) But your product does not endanger a DR plan , your product does not affect the production of 5000 users . Or does it ? I agree on some non critical product , but having a scheduler ,a tape management system ,an automation or a batch preparation tool with a key is what bothers me too much . Bruno Bruno(dot)sugliani(at)groupemornay(dot)asso(dot)fr -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: License keys for ISV products(What alternatives are there?)
From: Bruno Sugliani [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yes Dave and i agree with you . (apart that if it doubles to a 5 figure number it is already half a five figure number :-)) ) Hmm; the licensing cost isn't a 2.5 figure number g. It's a 4 figure number, which if doubled would become a 5 figure number. 4 doubles to 5, right? ;-) your product does not endanger a DR plan , your product does not affect the production of 5000 users . Or does it ? That's a good question, and I honestly don't know the answer. SimpList gives mainframe users an alternative to the regular ISPF interface. If it suddenly became unavailable, the regular interface would still be there. In that sense, it's not 'critical'; i.e. people could still go back to using ISPF option 3.4 (or whatever they previously used). In other words, SimpList is nowhere near as mission critical as a tape management system or job scheduler (etc). OTOH, SimpList can dramatically impact the productivity of users. If it suddenly became unavailable, people would have to stop using labels and symbols (etc) and go back to doing things the old way. This is hardly ideal in a disaster situation. To use an analogy, imagine if a disaster occurred and you switched to a site where TSO was available but ISPF was not available. You'd still be able to get things done, but not nearly at the kind of pace you'd like. Dave Salt SimpList(tm) - The easiest, most powerful way to surf a mainframe! http://www.mackinney.com/products/SIM/simplist.htm _ Buy what you want when you want it on Sympatico / MSN Shopping http://shopping.sympatico.msn.ca/content/shp/?ctId=2,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata=081805 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
IBM S/360 series operating systems history
Over the past few years I have been putting together a history timeline of operating systems. This is a very large task especially as a lot of the information about the early operating systems is quickly disappearing. A major part of this is the IBMs S/360 family of hardware and the operating systems that have running on it over the years. http://www.oshistory.net/metadot/index.pl?id=2195 I have quite a lot of information on the releases of :- MVS - Mainly missing clarification of the 1960-1972 period http://www.oshistory.net/metadot/index.pl?id=2238;isa=Category;op=show VM - Missing information prior to 1987 http://www.oshistory.net/metadot/index.pl?id=2236;isa=Category;op=show VSE - Missing very early history DOS/VSE and before. Not sure if this is the same DOS and TOS as in the MVS history. http://www.oshistory.net/metadot/index.pl?id=2237;isa=Category;op=show TPF - Almost completely missig ACP http://www.oshistory.net/metadot/index.pl?id=2229;isa=Category;op=show All information welcome, especially corrections, ommisions and clarifications of the early history of S/360 series. Thanks in advance Patrick Mulvany -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM S/360 series operating systems history
Patrick Mulvany wrote: Over the past few years I have been putting together a history timeline of operating systems. This is a very large task especially as a lot of the information about the early operating systems is quickly disappearing. A major part of this is the IBMs S/360 family of hardware and the operating systems that have running on it over the years. http://www.oshistory.net/metadot/index.pl?id=2195 I have quite a lot of information on the releases of :- MVS - Mainly missing clarification of the 1960-1972 period http://www.oshistory.net/metadot/index.pl?id=2238;isa=Category;op=show VM - Missing information prior to 1987 http://www.oshistory.net/metadot/index.pl?id=2236;isa=Category;op=show VSE - Missing very early history DOS/VSE and before. Not sure if this is the same DOS and TOS as in the MVS history. http://www.oshistory.net/metadot/index.pl?id=2237;isa=Category;op=show TPF - Almost completely missig ACP http://www.oshistory.net/metadot/index.pl?id=2229;isa=Category;op=show All information welcome, especially corrections, ommisions and clarifications of the early history of S/360 series. lots of vm history in melinda's share paper: VM and the VM Community: Past, Present, and Future ... http://www.princeton.edu/~melinda old email that has been posted/archived ... some of which relates to vm http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html for instance Melinda's paper talks about TSM (renamed ADSM) originating as CMSBACK starting in 1983. However, by 1983, cmsback was already into its 3rd or 4th version ... old email about CMSBACK ... predating 1983 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#cmsback In fact, the two people mentioned for CMSBACK in Melissa's paper weren't even hired at the time CMSBACK was originally done. another source of VM historical information is the VMSHARE archive http://vm.marist.edu/~vmshare/ on online VM related online computer conferencing originated in the mid-70s http://vm.marist.edu/~vmshare/ offered as a SHARE service by Tymshare corporation. Tymshare was a commercial vm370-based online timesharing service bureau ... misc. past posts mentioning online vm370-based commercial timesharing service operations http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#timeshare also some old email specifically mentioning vmshare http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#vmshare if you want a little topic drift ... lots of past posts mentioning science center http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#545tech which is where the original virtual machine operating system originated (cp67, precursor to vm370). it is also where GML was invented ... precursor to SGML and antecedent to HTML, XML, etc http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#sgml and also where the internal network originated ... lots of past posts observing that the internal network was larger than the arpanet/internet from just about the beginning until sometime mid-85 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#internalnet and a derivative of the internal networking software was also used for BITNET/EARN http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#bitnet misc. old email with some mention of VNET http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#vnet -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM S/360 series operating systems history
On Sunday 18 February 2007 15:24, Patrick Mulvany wrote: (...) A major part of this is the IBMs S/360 family of hardware and the operating systems that have running on it over the years. http://www.oshistory.net/metadot/index.pl?id=2195 All information welcome, especially corrections, ommisions and clarifications of the early history of S/360 series. (...) I suggest reading IBM's 360 and Early 370 Systems, an 800-page book published in 1991 by Pugh, Johnson and Palmer, particularly chapter 6 Software Support. -- Gilbert Saint-Flour GSF Software http://gsf-soft.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
SHOzOS 714
Hi folks, SHOWzOS 714 contains a serious bug which cause a PSA overlay. If assemble on z/OS R7 or R8 and runnig the same load on a pre R7 or R8 you may loose the LPAR because of the PSA overlay. This bug is fixed in the next version. Feel free to drop me an email if you need a fix for ths before 715 will be released. Roland Roland Schiradin ALTE LEIPZIGER Lebensversicherung auf Gegenseitigkeit IT Betrieb - DB/DC Tel. (06171) 66-4095, Fax (06171) 66-7500-4095 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.Alte-Leipziger.de -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
IBM Sued
Man sues IBM over firing, says he's an Internet addict CNN.com Sun, 18 Feb 2007 8:17 AM PST WHITE PLAINS, New York (AP) -- A man who was fired by IBM for visiting an adult chat room at work is suing the company for $5 million, claiming he is an Internet addict who deserves treatment and sympathy rather than dismissal. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM Sued
Doesn't anybody know what accountability is, anymore? - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: License keys for ISV products(What alternatives are there?)
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Eric N. Bielefeld Sent: Sun 2/18/2007 9:54 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: License keys for ISV products(What alternatives are there?) snip This has been a very interesting discussion. A few of the vendors have givin very good reasons for having keys. This comes at a time when I was givin the task to renew our Syncsort keys. I found that negotiating the contract was part of the process, which is something I won't have to do, fortuneatly for me. When they get the contract process done, I'll just have to install the keys. By the way, does anyone know if Syncsort's key is a hard fail key? I suspect it is after a grace period. snip Eric, SyncSort will give up to 60 days of warning messages before a contract expires and 7 days afterwards. These messages can be written to the joblog for each sort and the system log twice a day. These messages can be turn off during the 60 days prior the expiration of the control if the customer does not want to see them but it is highly recommended that they do not do this. It is not possilbe to disable these messages during the 7 day grace period after the license has expired. If a CPU change occurs the sort will continue to execute for 45 days. During this period message will be produced warning the customer of the situation. The customer having the ability to control whether the messages are produced or not for all but the final 7 days. We offer multiple ways for the customer to install and maintain their license keys. The recommended method is having the keys in a sequential data set. This way modifications to the license keys can be as easy as updating a single data set. Using this method allows the update to be completed without any reassembly/relink/reloading of any modules. Nothing needs to be stopped or restarted. We have tried to make the process as easy as possible. We provide 7x24 support and all analsyst can immediate help in a situation where a customer has a non-functioning product. I am responsible for customer service and technical support. If you are having difficutlies with our product and are not satisfied with the response you are getting from Syncsort, please contact me directly and I will see to it that whatever issue you are experiencing will get resolved as quickly as possible. John Reda Software Services Manager Syncsort Inc. 201-930-8260 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: License keys for ISV products(What alternatives are there?)
Charles Mills writes: Hasn't even IBM gone to less and less of a trust model? Are not the restrictions on z/OS.e, for example, enforced by technology that is somewhat analogous to keys? Re: z/OS.e, I'd say not. A customer has control over IEASYSxx, subject (legally) to their license. (LICENSE=z/OSe isn't a secret code that only IBM can issue. :-)) Besides, the last release of z/OS.e is 1.8. Starting with z/OS 1.9 there are different, still non-key, licensing rules (i.e. zNALC). I have to correct something I said earlier. While your product can cut SMF type 89 records, SCRT may not pick them up. (I'm not 100% sure it will, anyway, so I'm backing off saying it's so.) But you can still do reference-based pricing. For example, if you're an ISV with a DB2 tool, you can charge according to the DB2 MSUs that pop up in SCRT. Any problems with this approach? It's how IBM charges, and you can just ask for a bcc (blind copy) of the same report IBM gets. If your customer isn't sending SCRT reports to IBM (isn't VWLC), not a problem: you can require SCRT even if IBM doesn't. With respect to distributors and fraud, that's why you ought to consider providing support and subscription services directly. And why there ought to be support and subscription services (i.e. active product development). You can also put into the product installation documentation and even the installation panels an admonition to register with you (the vendor) as the sole source of critical updates. (Just an admonition, not a key.) There's another way to do this: proxy-price to some business metric that makes sense for your product and forget machine/MIPS entirely. For any publicly traded company this works quite well in the age of Sarbanes-Oxley. For example, if your customer is a bank, charge a tiny amount per account. For a credit card company, charge a tiny fraction of a penny per card swipe. These business metrics appear in the companies' annual reports, with high-priced auditors signing off on them, so they must be truthful under penalty of executive prison sentences. I suppose you could even price according to something that appears on the customer's tax statement -- lying to the Internal Revenue Service is a bigger problem for the customer. Or price according to the company's stock price. Or CEO's total compensation. Or whatever. As long as it's publicly reported, verifiable, and there's somebody else that can exact considerable pain if it isn't correct, it'll probably work. - - - - - Timothy Sipples IBM Consulting Enterprise Software Architect Specializing in Software Architectures Related to System z Based in Tokyo, Serving IBM Japan and IBM Asia-Pacific E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: License keys for ISV products(What alternatives are there?)
On 18 Feb 2007 11:44:17 -0800, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote: much snipped I understand that customers dont want to become dependent on leased software that expires and shuts down during critical times. However, there must be some reasonable cut-off point when negotiations break-down at contract renewal time. If the customer and vendor cannot agree on a new contract, then the product must stop operating. Where will you draw the line; 30 days, 60 days, 180 days, more? How long will customer get a free ride on a mission-critical ISV software? Until a replacement can be found or built? Does the contract allow for defaulting to month-to-month fees until a new long-term contract is negotiated (or the customer has gotten past their critical end-of-quarter processing)? What if there are no acceptable replacement products and the customer is unable or unwilling to build their own replacement? Disaster recovery on unknown machines (why are they unknown?) is a big issue. When a disaster is declared, the specific target system may in part depend on how many other sites have declared a disaster at the same time. I would not want to depend on getting a specific physical box in many cases. Of course if the DR system is owned by the site declaring the disaster, the serial number should be known. Many license key implementations are awkward and difficult to manage. Complain to the ISV and be specific about the issues. Pricing models are entirely a different matter that have little correlation to the license key implementation. Let's be clear in this topic when discussing pricing models versus license key implementation. License keys are never going away. However, bad implementations should go away. Jeffrey D. Smith Principal Product Architect Farsight Systems Corporation 700 KEN PRATT BLVD. #204-159 LONGMONT, CO 80501-6452 303-774-9381 direct 303-484-6170 FAX http://www.farsight-systems.com/ see my résumé at my website (yes, I am looking for employment) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM S/360 series operating systems history
On 18 Feb 2007 12:24:48 -0800, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote: Over the past few years I have been putting together a history timeline of operating systems. This is a very large task especially as a lot of the information about the early operating systems is quickly disappearing. A major part of this is the IBMs S/360 family of hardware and the operating systems that have running on it over the years. http://www.oshistory.net/metadot/index.pl?id=2195 I have quite a lot of information on the releases of :- MVS - Mainly missing clarification of the 1960-1972 period http://www.oshistory.net/metadot/index.pl?id=2238;isa=Category;op=show I believe that MFT and MVT went unsupported in 1977. My shop ran unsupported until the 1980's (Westinghouse Lamp Divisions, yes the plural is accurate for at least some of the period). Due to water on our mod 65 we also ran MVT on a 4341. VM - Missing information prior to 1987 http://www.oshistory.net/metadot/index.pl?id=2236;isa=Category;op=show VSE - Missing very early history DOS/VSE and before. Not sure if this is the same DOS and TOS as in the MVS history. http://www.oshistory.net/metadot/index.pl?id=2237;isa=Category;op=show TPF - Almost completely missig ACP http://www.oshistory.net/metadot/index.pl?id=2229;isa=Category;op=show All information welcome, especially corrections, ommisions and clarifications of the early history of S/360 series. Thanks in advance Patrick Mulvany -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBMLink SIS is FINALLY re-integrated
Never noticed this problem using the TN3270 interface :) -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pinnacle Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 6:27 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: IBMLink SIS is FINALLY re-integrated After many months of being forced to run two SIS searches to get both problem and QA data, IBM HAS FINALLY RE-INTEGRATED SIS! Still don't know any of the 5 W's related to THE COMPLETELY IDIOTIC decision to split SIS, but IBM finally did the right thing and put it back the way it was. They don't make any changes to IBMLink without months of design and coding, but somehow, no one at IBMLink knew why they split SIS. At least we were able to convince them to reverse this incredibly stupid change. I sometimes wonder if the IBMLink developers ever even use IBMLink. Thanks to all of you who chimed in, I know they didn't do it just for me. Regards, Tom Conley -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: License keys for ISV products(What alternatives are there?)
Timothy - Excellent points, and no one wants to hear us debate this ad nauseam. A few thoughts: - I'm not a z/OS.e expert. My point was that if you say it's z/OS.e, then illegal products flat refuse to run. It's like a key in that way. - I can see a real problem getting people to send us a report. Sounds stupid, but getting anything out of a customer can be a problem, unless you have real power of some sort (which IBM does). Heck, it can be a chore getting a SYSOUT from a customer even when they are reporting a problem. I'm serious. This is a critical problem, it's killing us, you have to fix it right away. What was the exact message? Oh something about an error -- we already purged the SYSOUT. - Charging by some business metric is the correct answer, except that it won't work! Seriously, I agree with you that it would be the right way to charge. I heard Scott McNealy talk one time about charging by corporate headcount: pay us $50 (?) per month per body and you can have all of the Sun software you want. It won't work for a small vendor. You can't change the dominant paradigm. It's hard or impossible if you're big; it's certainly impossible if you're small. If everyone is used to paying for software by the MSU, they may bitch about it, but they want to pay some other way even less. Often the right metric is some sort of business volume. For my file transfer product, I wished we could charge by the kilobyte. The problem is, any kind of metering file is as fraught with trust problems as a license key file. You have to be authorized to cut SMF records -- is that right? Requiring authorization is a sales obstacle. - Sure, every software company would rather have sales reps than distributors. Most small software companies are capital and management-attention constrained. Overseas offices are VERY capital and management-attention intensive. It's great to require the customers to contact you, but if the distributor fails to mention that fact, you're right back where you were. They have the customer's ear and speak his language; you don't. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Timothy Sipples Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 5:27 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: License keys for ISV products(What alternatives are there?) Charles Mills writes: Hasn't even IBM gone to less and less of a trust model? Are not the restrictions on z/OS.e, for example, enforced by technology that is somewhat analogous to keys? Re: z/OS.e, I'd say not. A customer has control over IEASYSxx, subject (legally) to their license. (LICENSE=z/OSe isn't a secret code that only IBM can issue. :-)) Besides, the last release of z/OS.e is 1.8. Starting with z/OS 1.9 there are different, still non-key, licensing rules (i.e. zNALC). -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: License keys for ISV products(What alternatives are there?)
Charles, I sure hope they don't start charging for software by headcount. Every time I see a headline about a company cutting thousands of workers, invariably they say that the stock went up. If software costs go down whenever you have a headcut, that will give management added incentives to cut workers. They might decide to cut us - then the stock would really go up - at least for a little while. Eric Bielefeld Sr. z/OS Systems Programmer Lands End Dodgeville, Wisconsin 414-475-7434 - Charging by some business metric is the correct answer, except that it won't work! Seriously, I agree with you that it would be the right way to charge. I heard Scott McNealy talk one time about charging by corporate headcount: pay us $50 (?) per month per body and you can have all of the Sun software you want. Charles -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM S/360 series operating systems history
Patrick Mulvany wrote: Over the past few years I have been putting together a history timeline of operating systems. This is a very large task especially as a lot of the information about the early operating systems is quickly disappearing. /snip /unsip VSE - Missing very early history DOS/VSE and before. Not sure if this is the same DOS and TOS as in the MVS history. http://www.oshistory.net/metadot/index.pl?id=2237;isa=Category;op=show From an unreliable memory. DOS r26 was the last real memory DOS DOS/VS R27 1972-73 timeframe - check when the small 370'e (135 145) become available Last DOS/VS R35 probably 1982 to be followed by the VSE series (probably when the 4331/4341 become available) Been a long time Ken -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM S/360 series operating systems history
You have also missed some small relatively insignificant OS's. TPS (Tape Programming System) DPS (Disk Programming System) BPS (Basic Programming System although it might have been CPS for Card ) These all run on the System360/20 machines. Ken -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Running DFHLS2WS
Hi, We are exploring the new Web Services features in CICS TS v3.1. One of the steps in implementing A Web Service is running a utility called DFHLS2WS. It's sample is in the SDFHINST library. The JAVAPRG1 step in this job passes various parameters to JAVA using the JCL PARM field. The problem is the expanded parameters are over 100 characters long. Has anyone used this utility. How can we get around this problem. TIA Gadi -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
