Re: Question on 3270 Devices

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In
,
on 06/09/2015
   at 06:06 PM, zMan  said:

>You've devolved into babbling. Zman out.

Whoosh! The fact that you're humor impaired and understood neither the
joke nor the frerenece to pixel count does not make it babbling.
 
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Re: Question on 3270 Devices

[zMan]

You've devolved into babbling. Zman out.

On Mon, Jun 8, 2015 at 7:35 AM, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) <
shmuel+ibm-m...@patriot.net> wrote:

> In
> ,
> on 06/07/2015
>at 10:33 PM, zMan  said:
>
> >OK, what I wrote was:
> >...could either support four 3279 sessions at once, or one 3279
> >session that took the whole screen (you could switch modes; in
> >single-session mode, you'd then cycle through the sessions).
>
> >Which is admittedly not 100% clear,
>
> Not even close.
>
> >but doesn't make sense as "can only display one session at a
> >time", because then there wouldn't be a single-session mode, eh?
>
> I'd say that it doesn't make sense the other way: "Where have all the
> pixels gone, long time passing?" Then there's the question of explicit
> partitions, which were crucial to the 3290's appeal.
>
>
> --
>  Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
>  ISO position; see 
> We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
> (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)
>
> --
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Re: Question on 3270 Devices

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In
,
on 06/07/2015
   at 10:33 PM, zMan  said:

>OK, what I wrote was:
>...could either support four 3279 sessions at once, or one 3279
>session that took the whole screen (you could switch modes; in
>single-session mode, you'd then cycle through the sessions).

>Which is admittedly not 100% clear,

Not even close.

>but doesn't make sense as "can only display one session at a 
>time", because then there wouldn't be a single-session mode, eh?

I'd say that it doesn't make sense the other way: "Where have all the
pixels gone, long time passing?" Then there's the question of explicit
partitions, which were crucial to the 3290's appeal.

 
-- 
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 ISO position; see  
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

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Re: Question on 3270 Devices

[zMan]

OK, what I wrote was:
...could either support four 3279 sessions at once, or one 3279 session
that took the whole screen (you could switch modes; in single-session mode,
you'd then cycle through the sessions).

Which is admittedly not 100% clear, but doesn't make sense as "can only
display one session at a time", because then there wouldn't be a
single-session mode, eh?

RIF.

On Thu, Jun 4, 2015 at 1:15 PM, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) <
shmuel+ibm-m...@patriot.net> wrote:

> In
> ,
> on 06/02/2015
>at 03:17 PM, zMan  said:
>
> >Which is what I said it did.
>
> No, you alsoid that it *couldn't* display more than one session at a
> time and didn't mention explicit partitions at all. They say that the
> memory is the second thing to go.
>
> Perhaps you could clarify what you meant by "you could switch modes;
> in single-session mode, you'd then cycle through the sessions".
>
> --
>  Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
>  ISO position; see 
> We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
> (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)
>
> --
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> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
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Re: Question on 3270 Devices

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In
,
on 06/02/2015
   at 03:17 PM, zMan  said:

>Which is what I said it did.

No, you alsoid that it *couldn't* display more than one session at a
time and didn't mention explicit partitions at all. They say that the
memory is the second thing to go.

Perhaps you could clarify what you meant by "you could switch modes;
in single-session mode, you'd then cycle through the sessions".
 
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(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

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Re: Question on 3270 Devices

[Thomas Conley]

On 6/3/2015 9:58 AM, Thomas Conley wrote:

On 6/3/2015 4:36 AM, Lucas Rosalen wrote:

Hey Tom,

Read your article. VERY nice I must say!
I know this is from 2012, so I guess now with z/OS 2.1 the issue below
has
been fixed, right? Now each ULOG session has its own ID if I recall it
correctly

" SDSF also has an issue with multiple logon. A user logged on to SYSA
goes
into SDSF LOG/ULOG, then logs on to SYSB and enters SDSF LOG/ULOG. If the
user issues a command on SYSB from SDSF, the command response won’t
appear
in the SYSB LOG/ULOG; it appears in the SYSA ULOG. By default, SDSF sets
the Extended Multiple Console Support (EMCS) console id to userid, so all
command output is routed to the system first establishing the console
id."

Regards and keep up the good job!
On Jun 1, 2015 4:06 PM, "Thomas Conley" 
wrote:


Lucas,

Thanks for your kind words.  We did a lot of work on multiple logon, so
it's nice to know it's paying off.  Thanks also for pointing out that
this has been fixed in SDSF.  I just researched this because I didn't
know for certain that SDSF added this feature in z/OS V2R1.  It's called
console name modification, and if ULOG senses that the console name,
typically user id, is already in use, it will add characters until it
finds a unique console id.  This feature removed the last inhibitor to
multiple logon.

Regards,
Tom Conley



Point of clarification, this only works for console id's of 7 characters 
or less.  If you have an 8-character console id, that id will be used 
for all your SDSF sessions.  If you clear the console id or set it to 
your user id, you should get the console name modification.


Regards,
Tom Conley

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Re: Question on 3270 Devices

[Thomas Conley]

On 6/3/2015 8:46 AM, Givens, Dennis W. wrote:

Yes by DEFAULT SDSF sets the console id to the userid but you can changed the 
console ID for each system using the OPTIONS from SDSF main panel.




Dennis,

This only works if you have a non-shared ISPF profile, which is not a 
good idea.  If you have a shared profile, the console id is saved, but 
the last console id used in the sysplex will be the one saved, and will 
be used when you first logon to the sysplex.  If you haven't read my 
article on multiple logon and why non-shared profiles are a bad idea, 
you can grab it here:  http://tinyurl.com/prnmh48.


Regards,
Tom Conley

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Re: Question on 3270 Devices

[Thomas Conley]

On 6/3/2015 4:36 AM, Lucas Rosalen wrote:

Hey Tom,

Read your article. VERY nice I must say!
I know this is from 2012, so I guess now with z/OS 2.1 the issue below has
been fixed, right? Now each ULOG session has its own ID if I recall it
correctly

" SDSF also has an issue with multiple logon. A user logged on to SYSA goes
into SDSF LOG/ULOG, then logs on to SYSB and enters SDSF LOG/ULOG. If the
user issues a command on SYSB from SDSF, the command response won’t appear
in the SYSB LOG/ULOG; it appears in the SYSA ULOG. By default, SDSF sets
the Extended Multiple Console Support (EMCS) console id to userid, so all
command output is routed to the system first establishing the console id."

Regards and keep up the good job!
On Jun 1, 2015 4:06 PM, "Thomas Conley"  wrote:


Lucas,

Thanks for your kind words.  We did a lot of work on multiple logon, so 
it's nice to know it's paying off.  Thanks also for pointing out that 
this has been fixed in SDSF.  I just researched this because I didn't 
know for certain that SDSF added this feature in z/OS V2R1.  It's called 
console name modification, and if ULOG senses that the console name, 
typically user id, is already in use, it will add characters until it 
finds a unique console id.  This feature removed the last inhibitor to 
multiple logon.


Regards,
Tom Conley

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Re: Question on 3270 Devices

[Givens, Dennis W.]

Yes by DEFAULT SDSF sets the console id to the userid but you can changed the 
console ID for each system using the OPTIONS from SDSF main panel.


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Lucas Rosalen
Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2015 3:37 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Question on 3270 Devices

Hey Tom,

Read your article. VERY nice I must say!
I know this is from 2012, so I guess now with z/OS 2.1 the issue below has
been fixed, right? Now each ULOG session has its own ID if I recall it
correctly

" SDSF also has an issue with multiple logon. A user logged on to SYSA goes
into SDSF LOG/ULOG, then logs on to SYSB and enters SDSF LOG/ULOG. If the
user issues a command on SYSB from SDSF, the command response won’t appear
in the SYSB LOG/ULOG; it appears in the SYSA ULOG. By default, SDSF sets
the Extended Multiple Console Support (EMCS) console id to userid, so all
command output is routed to the system first establishing the console id."

Regards and keep up the good job!
On Jun 1, 2015 4:06 PM, "Thomas Conley"  wrote:

> On 6/1/2015 9:45 AM, John McKown wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 8:17 AM, Paul Gilmartin <
>> 000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>
>>  On Sun, 31 May 2015 19:03:23 -0400, Thomas Conley wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> An example of how IBM hardware design outpaces its software design.
>>>>> A couple decades after an IBM terminal supported multiple sessions,
>>>>> ISPF doesn't support a user's having multiple sessions.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Incorrect.  ISPF supports multiple user sessions as of z/OS V2R1.
>>>> However, the only 'sploiter Luthy, is z/OSMF.
>>>>
>>>>  How do I get past the
>>>
>>>   IKJ56425I LOGON rejected, UserId USER already logged on to system
>>> MVS
>>>
>>> ... in order to start an additional TSO session in order to start an
>>> additional
>>> ISPF session?
>>>
>>> The term "only [ex]ploiter" implies severe limitations.
>>>
>>>
>> ​_You_ cannot because, IIRC, you are not a sysprog who can install exits.
>> Either the IKJEFLD or IKJEFLD1 exit ​can be used to set the "Don't ENQ"
>> bit
>> in the control switches. Normally, TSO does a ENQ on your RACF id as a
>> resource name and a queue name of SYSIKJUA. This is what is used by TSO to
>> prevent multiple logons to the same ID. In my shop, I have an RNL which
>> changes this ENQ from a SYSTEMS (sysplex wide) ENQ to a SYSTEM (individual
>> image) ENQ __for specific RACF ids__. Basically what this does is allow
>> Production Control and Tech Services, but no one else, to log on to each
>> system image in the sysplex concurrently.
>>
>> What just occurred to me is that an APF authorized program (either batch
>> or
>> TSO, whichever) could be coded so that _authorized_ people could run it
>> and
>> have it release the ENQ issued by TSO so that they could logon on for a
>> second time. Of course, this may cause the LOGOFF processor to abend if it
>> tried to do an unconditional DEQ of the user id. There were previous
>> posts,
>> years ago, about why the IBM TSO people did this. IIRC, it was mainly due
>> to some serious serialization problems and this ENQ was a fast patch which
>> never was addressed. Mainly because many view TSO as a resource hog any
>> way. Especially back in MVT days.
>>
>> ref:
>>
>> http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/ikj4b4a0/3.3.11.6.1
>>
>>
>>
>>
> John,
>
> Good points all, but Gil wants to have multiple ISPF sessions on the same
> LPAR.  TSO currently doesn't support that natively, it's only supported in
> z/OSMF.
>
> I'm surprised that you limit multiple concurrent logons in the sysplex to
> just a handful of id's.  I'm curious why you don't take advantage of shared
> profiles for your entire ISPF community.  I've done a lot of work on this
> subject, so it's near and dear to my heart.  You can find the gory details
> here http://tinyurl.com/prnmh48.
>
> Regards,
> Tom Conley
>
> --
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> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>

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Re: Question on 3270 Devices

[Lucas Rosalen]

Hey Tom,

Read your article. VERY nice I must say!
I know this is from 2012, so I guess now with z/OS 2.1 the issue below has
been fixed, right? Now each ULOG session has its own ID if I recall it
correctly

" SDSF also has an issue with multiple logon. A user logged on to SYSA goes
into SDSF LOG/ULOG, then logs on to SYSB and enters SDSF LOG/ULOG. If the
user issues a command on SYSB from SDSF, the command response won’t appear
in the SYSB LOG/ULOG; it appears in the SYSA ULOG. By default, SDSF sets
the Extended Multiple Console Support (EMCS) console id to userid, so all
command output is routed to the system first establishing the console id."

Regards and keep up the good job!
On Jun 1, 2015 4:06 PM, "Thomas Conley"  wrote:

> On 6/1/2015 9:45 AM, John McKown wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 8:17 AM, Paul Gilmartin <
>> 000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>
>>  On Sun, 31 May 2015 19:03:23 -0400, Thomas Conley wrote:
>>>

> An example of how IBM hardware design outpaces its software design.
> A couple decades after an IBM terminal supported multiple sessions,
> ISPF doesn't support a user's having multiple sessions.
>

 Incorrect.  ISPF supports multiple user sessions as of z/OS V2R1.
 However, the only 'sploiter Luthy, is z/OSMF.

  How do I get past the
>>>
>>>   IKJ56425I LOGON rejected, UserId USER already logged on to system
>>> MVS
>>>
>>> ... in order to start an additional TSO session in order to start an
>>> additional
>>> ISPF session?
>>>
>>> The term "only [ex]ploiter" implies severe limitations.
>>>
>>>
>> ​_You_ cannot because, IIRC, you are not a sysprog who can install exits.
>> Either the IKJEFLD or IKJEFLD1 exit ​can be used to set the "Don't ENQ"
>> bit
>> in the control switches. Normally, TSO does a ENQ on your RACF id as a
>> resource name and a queue name of SYSIKJUA. This is what is used by TSO to
>> prevent multiple logons to the same ID. In my shop, I have an RNL which
>> changes this ENQ from a SYSTEMS (sysplex wide) ENQ to a SYSTEM (individual
>> image) ENQ __for specific RACF ids__. Basically what this does is allow
>> Production Control and Tech Services, but no one else, to log on to each
>> system image in the sysplex concurrently.
>>
>> What just occurred to me is that an APF authorized program (either batch
>> or
>> TSO, whichever) could be coded so that _authorized_ people could run it
>> and
>> have it release the ENQ issued by TSO so that they could logon on for a
>> second time. Of course, this may cause the LOGOFF processor to abend if it
>> tried to do an unconditional DEQ of the user id. There were previous
>> posts,
>> years ago, about why the IBM TSO people did this. IIRC, it was mainly due
>> to some serious serialization problems and this ENQ was a fast patch which
>> never was addressed. Mainly because many view TSO as a resource hog any
>> way. Especially back in MVT days.
>>
>> ref:
>>
>> http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/ikj4b4a0/3.3.11.6.1
>>
>>
>>
>>
> John,
>
> Good points all, but Gil wants to have multiple ISPF sessions on the same
> LPAR.  TSO currently doesn't support that natively, it's only supported in
> z/OSMF.
>
> I'm surprised that you limit multiple concurrent logons in the sysplex to
> just a handful of id's.  I'm curious why you don't take advantage of shared
> profiles for your entire ISPF community.  I've done a lot of work on this
> subject, so it's near and dear to my heart.  You can find the gory details
> here http://tinyurl.com/prnmh48.
>
> Regards,
> Tom Conley
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
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Re: Question on 3270 Devices

[zMan]

Which is what I said it did. What are you on about?

On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 8:38 PM, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) <
shmuel+ibm-m...@patriot.net> wrote:

> In
> ,
> on 05/31/2015
>at 01:54 PM, zMan  said:
>
> >Right, but this wasn't IBM, and was color (3279).
>
> 3279 is an IBM line, and 3rd party vendors rarely repurpose IBM model
> numbers.
>
> >Clearly a 3290 competitor.
>
> Not if it can't display 4 sessions concurrently and don't let an
> application carve up a 62x160 session.
>
> --
>  Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
>  ISO position; see 
> We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
> (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
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>



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Re: Question on 3270 Devices

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In <556c66e1.7090...@rochester.rr.com>, on 06/01/2015
   at 10:06 AM, Thomas Conley  said:

>Good points all, but Gil wants to have multiple ISPF sessions on the 
>same LPAR.  TSO currently doesn't support that natively,

ObGungaDin WSA.
 
-- 
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 ISO position; see  
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

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Re: Question on 3270 Devices

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In <0354368054759855.wa.paulgboulderaim@listserv.ua.edu>, on
06/01/2015
   at 09:52 AM, Paul Gilmartin
<000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> said:

>As the end user, I care little about the technical details of the
>blockage; only that the facility is unavailable.

That's fine if you don't really care about what you're asking for but
are only letting off steam. It's not productive if you really do care.

>And I might reverse the analysis and fault ISPF for relying on an
>inadequate service.

You might, if you didn't want to be taken seriously.

>An alternative approach might be to liberate ISPF from dependency on
>TSO. 

Again? Why wasn't twice enough? 
-- 
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 ISO position; see  
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

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Re: Question on 3270 Devices

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In
,
on 05/31/2015
   at 01:54 PM, zMan  said:

>Right, but this wasn't IBM, and was color (3279).

3279 is an IBM line, and 3rd party vendors rarely repurpose IBM model
numbers.

>Clearly a 3290 competitor.

Not if it can't display 4 sessions concurrently and don't let an
application carve up a 62x160 session.
 
-- 
 Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
 ISO position; see  
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

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Re: Question on 3270 Devices (3290 Orange Screen!)

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In , on 05/31/2015
   at 01:40 PM, "Tony's Outlook via Mozilla" 
said:

>I loved the 3290,

AOL.

>Wish I could emulate it on my large monitor.

Doesn't vista handle that, plus color?

>Always wishing to push a limit I once split my 3290 into 4 screens,

I alway ran in 62x80, and let ISPF split it at need. I found 4 24x80
splits to be readable, but mostly I had 2 80-column splits for editing
and one wide split for viewing listings. 

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Re: Question on 3270 Devices

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Mon, 1 Jun 2015 10:02:57 -0500, John McKown wrote:
>
>​I wish that I knew what the interface is between zOSMF and ISPF. If I did,
>I could look at perverting it in such as way as to get an ISPF session
>running from a UNIX shell prompt. 
> 
I have done this, but only for non-interactive.  It involves Rexx "address TSO";
a bunch of allocations, some to temp DSNs to avoid ENQ entanglements.  I
use it to exploit LMF services to update a PDS member while another user
may ENQ SYSDSN SHR.

But non-interactive.  And I wish cp(1) were so clever.  C RTL issue?

-- gil

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Re: Question on 3270 Devices

[John McKown]

On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Paul Gilmartin <
000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> On Mon, 1 Jun 2015 09:34:04 -0400, Thomas Conley wrote:
> >
>  An example of how IBM hardware design outpaces its software design.
>  A couple decades after an IBM terminal supported multiple sessions,
>  ISPF doesn't support a user's having multiple sessions.
> >>
> >>   IKJ56425I LOGON rejected, UserId USER already logged on to system
> MVS
> >
> >You need to bit...er, raise this issue with TSO.  Don't be dogging ISPF.
> >  The function is there, it's up to the various other components to
> >support it.
> >
> As the end user, I care little about the technical details of the
> blockage; only
> that the facility is unavailable.
>
> And I might reverse the analysis and fault ISPF for relying on an
> inadequate
> service.  An alternative approach might be to liberate ISPF from dependency
> on TSO.  That might politically be the more practical approach, given that
> TSO appears to be functionally stabilized while ISPF is actively maintained
> and enhanced.
>
> I can easily start multiple UNIX System Services sessions until I grow
> tired,
> with no need for administrative gyrations such as John M. discusses.  Why
> shouldn't TSO/ISPF be raised to that level of quality?
>

​I wish that I knew what the interface is between zOSMF and ISPF. If I did,
I could look at perverting it in such as way as to get an ISPF session
running from a UNIX shell prompt. 



>
> -- gil
>
>
-- 
My sister opened a computer store in Hawaii. She sells C shells down by the
seashore.

If someone tell you that nothing is impossible:
Ask him to dribble a football.

He's about as useful as a wax frying pan.

10 to the 12th power microphones = 1 Megaphone

Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Re: Question on 3270 Devices

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Mon, 1 Jun 2015 09:34:04 -0400, Thomas Conley wrote:
>
 An example of how IBM hardware design outpaces its software design.
 A couple decades after an IBM terminal supported multiple sessions,
 ISPF doesn't support a user's having multiple sessions.
>>
>>   IKJ56425I LOGON rejected, UserId USER already logged on to system MVS
>
>You need to bit...er, raise this issue with TSO.  Don't be dogging ISPF.
>  The function is there, it's up to the various other components to
>support it.
>
As the end user, I care little about the technical details of the blockage; only
that the facility is unavailable.

And I might reverse the analysis and fault ISPF for relying on an inadequate
service.  An alternative approach might be to liberate ISPF from dependency
on TSO.  That might politically be the more practical approach, given that
TSO appears to be functionally stabilized while ISPF is actively maintained
and enhanced.

I can easily start multiple UNIX System Services sessions until I grow tired,
with no need for administrative gyrations such as John M. discusses.  Why
shouldn't TSO/ISPF be raised to that level of quality?

-- gil

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Re: Question on 3270 Devices

[John McKown]

On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 9:06 AM, Thomas Conley 
wrote:
​

> John,
>
> Good points all, but Gil wants to have multiple ISPF sessions on the same
> LPAR.  TSO currently doesn't support that natively, it's only supported in
> z/OSMF.
>
> I'm surprised that you limit multiple concurrent logons in the sysplex to
> just a handful of id's.  I'm curious why you don't take advantage of shared
> profiles for your entire ISPF community.  I've done a lot of work on this
> subject, so it's near and dear to my heart.  You can find the gory details
> here http://tinyurl.com/prnmh48.
>

​"There's no reason, it's just policy.". Basically, we just to just have a
single image. The programmers were complaining that they couldn't get
anything done because production kept using up all of the CPU. I was not
allowed to address this using WLM. I tried. So, to shut them up, we split
the "test and model office" into a separate system image, but in the same
sysplex so that we could easily share things. However, IMO, we "punished"
the programmers by telling them that they could only be on one image at a
time. And that they could only use CA-Endevor on the test image. IOW
"politics".​



>
> Regards,
> Tom Conley
>
>

-- 
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seashore.

If someone tell you that nothing is impossible:
Ask him to dribble a football.

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Re: Question on 3270 Devices

[Thomas Conley]

On 6/1/2015 9:45 AM, John McKown wrote:

On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 8:17 AM, Paul Gilmartin <
000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:


On Sun, 31 May 2015 19:03:23 -0400, Thomas Conley wrote:


An example of how IBM hardware design outpaces its software design.
A couple decades after an IBM terminal supported multiple sessions,
ISPF doesn't support a user's having multiple sessions.


Incorrect.  ISPF supports multiple user sessions as of z/OS V2R1.
However, the only 'sploiter Luthy, is z/OSMF.


How do I get past the

  IKJ56425I LOGON rejected, UserId USER already logged on to system MVS

... in order to start an additional TSO session in order to start an
additional
ISPF session?

The term "only [ex]ploiter" implies severe limitations.



​_You_ cannot because, IIRC, you are not a sysprog who can install exits.
Either the IKJEFLD or IKJEFLD1 exit ​can be used to set the "Don't ENQ" bit
in the control switches. Normally, TSO does a ENQ on your RACF id as a
resource name and a queue name of SYSIKJUA. This is what is used by TSO to
prevent multiple logons to the same ID. In my shop, I have an RNL which
changes this ENQ from a SYSTEMS (sysplex wide) ENQ to a SYSTEM (individual
image) ENQ __for specific RACF ids__. Basically what this does is allow
Production Control and Tech Services, but no one else, to log on to each
system image in the sysplex concurrently.

What just occurred to me is that an APF authorized program (either batch or
TSO, whichever) could be coded so that _authorized_ people could run it and
have it release the ENQ issued by TSO so that they could logon on for a
second time. Of course, this may cause the LOGOFF processor to abend if it
tried to do an unconditional DEQ of the user id. There were previous posts,
years ago, about why the IBM TSO people did this. IIRC, it was mainly due
to some serious serialization problems and this ENQ was a fast patch which
never was addressed. Mainly because many view TSO as a resource hog any
way. Especially back in MVT days.

ref:
http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/ikj4b4a0/3.3.11.6.1





John,

Good points all, but Gil wants to have multiple ISPF sessions on the 
same LPAR.  TSO currently doesn't support that natively, it's only 
supported in z/OSMF.


I'm surprised that you limit multiple concurrent logons in the sysplex 
to just a handful of id's.  I'm curious why you don't take advantage of 
shared profiles for your entire ISPF community.  I've done a lot of work 
on this subject, so it's near and dear to my heart.  You can find the 
gory details here http://tinyurl.com/prnmh48.


Regards,
Tom Conley

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Re: Question on 3270 Devices

[Elardus Engelbrecht]

John McKown wrote:

>​_You_ cannot because, IIRC, you are not a sysprog who can install exits.
>Either the IKJEFLD or IKJEFLD1 exit ​can be used to set the "Don't ENQ" bit
>in the control switches. Normally, TSO does a ENQ on your RACF id as a
>resource name and a queue name of SYSIKJUA. This is what is used by TSO to
>prevent multiple logons to the same ID. In my shop, I have an RNL which
>changes this ENQ from a SYSTEMS (sysplex wide) ENQ to a SYSTEM (individual
>image) ENQ __for specific RACF ids__. 

Thanks for clarifying Paul's question. I got sidetracked somehow while 
answering Paul and Thomas posts.

This statement below will allow you many sessions in SysPlex, but ONE session 
per LPAR with a RACF id.

RNLDEF RNL(EXCL) TYPE(SPECIFIC) QNAME(SYSIKJUA) RNAME() 

You will have to review your temp dsn naming standards.

>...  this ENQ was a fast patch which never was addressed. 

Still not addressed AFAIK.

Groete / Greetings
Elardus Engelbrecht

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Re: Question on 3270 Devices

[Elardus Engelbrecht]

Thomas Conley wrote:

>> How do I get past the
>>   IKJ56425I LOGON rejected, UserId USER already logged on to system MVS
>> ... in order to start an additional TSO session in order to start an 
>> additional ISPF session?

Same or other terminal?

>You need to bit...er, raise this issue with TSO.  Don't be dogging ISPF. The 
>function is there, it's up to the various other components to support it.

What components in VTAM, LogMode, TSO, etc.?

It is really a long time ago I had to do that work... but Session Manager is 
making things easier.

All I can remember without RTFM or looking in TSOKEYxx/ATCCONxx are these 
keywords RECONLIM and USERMAX.

Just curious of course.

Groete / Greetings
Elardus Engelbrecht

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Re: Question on 3270 Devices

[John McKown]

On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 8:17 AM, Paul Gilmartin <
000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> On Sun, 31 May 2015 19:03:23 -0400, Thomas Conley wrote:
> >>
> >> An example of how IBM hardware design outpaces its software design.
> >> A couple decades after an IBM terminal supported multiple sessions,
> >> ISPF doesn't support a user's having multiple sessions.
> >
> >Incorrect.  ISPF supports multiple user sessions as of z/OS V2R1.
> >However, the only 'sploiter Luthy, is z/OSMF.
> >
> How do I get past the
>
>  IKJ56425I LOGON rejected, UserId USER already logged on to system MVS
>
> ... in order to start an additional TSO session in order to start an
> additional
> ISPF session?
>
> The term "only [ex]ploiter" implies severe limitations.
>

​_You_ cannot because, IIRC, you are not a sysprog who can install exits.
Either the IKJEFLD or IKJEFLD1 exit ​can be used to set the "Don't ENQ" bit
in the control switches. Normally, TSO does a ENQ on your RACF id as a
resource name and a queue name of SYSIKJUA. This is what is used by TSO to
prevent multiple logons to the same ID. In my shop, I have an RNL which
changes this ENQ from a SYSTEMS (sysplex wide) ENQ to a SYSTEM (individual
image) ENQ __for specific RACF ids__. Basically what this does is allow
Production Control and Tech Services, but no one else, to log on to each
system image in the sysplex concurrently.

What just occurred to me is that an APF authorized program (either batch or
TSO, whichever) could be coded so that _authorized_ people could run it and
have it release the ENQ issued by TSO so that they could logon on for a
second time. Of course, this may cause the LOGOFF processor to abend if it
tried to do an unconditional DEQ of the user id. There were previous posts,
years ago, about why the IBM TSO people did this. IIRC, it was mainly due
to some serious serialization problems and this ENQ was a fast patch which
never was addressed. Mainly because many view TSO as a resource hog any
way. Especially back in MVT days.

ref:
http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/ikj4b4a0/3.3.11.6.1



>
> -- gil
>
> --
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-- 
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seashore.

If someone tell you that nothing is impossible:
Ask him to dribble a football.

He's about as useful as a wax frying pan.

10 to the 12th power microphones = 1 Megaphone

Maranatha! <><
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Re: Question on 3270 Devices

[Thomas Conley]

On 6/1/2015 9:17 AM, Paul Gilmartin wrote:

On Sun, 31 May 2015 19:03:23 -0400, Thomas Conley wrote:


An example of how IBM hardware design outpaces its software design.
A couple decades after an IBM terminal supported multiple sessions,
ISPF doesn't support a user's having multiple sessions.


Incorrect.  ISPF supports multiple user sessions as of z/OS V2R1.
However, the only 'sploiter Luthy, is z/OSMF.


How do I get past the

  IKJ56425I LOGON rejected, UserId USER already logged on to system MVS

... in order to start an additional TSO session in order to start an additional
ISPF session?

The term "only [ex]ploiter" implies severe limitations.

-- gil

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Gil,

You need to bit...er, raise this issue with TSO.  Don't be dogging ISPF. 
 The function is there, it's up to the various other components to 
support it.


Regards,
Tom Conley

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Re: Question on 3270 Devices

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Sun, 31 May 2015 19:03:23 -0400, Thomas Conley wrote:
>>
>> An example of how IBM hardware design outpaces its software design.
>> A couple decades after an IBM terminal supported multiple sessions,
>> ISPF doesn't support a user's having multiple sessions.
>
>Incorrect.  ISPF supports multiple user sessions as of z/OS V2R1.
>However, the only 'sploiter Luthy, is z/OSMF.
> 
How do I get past the

 IKJ56425I LOGON rejected, UserId USER already logged on to system MVS

... in order to start an additional TSO session in order to start an additional
ISPF session?

The term "only [ex]ploiter" implies severe limitations.

-- gil

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Re: Question on 3270 Devices

[Thomas Conley]

On 5/31/2015 11:05 AM, Paul Gilmartin wrote:

On 2015-05-30, at 18:36, J O Skip Robinson wrote:


Sounds a lot like 3290, which was very much an IBM device. Had a large gas 
panel display with orange on black. (Netflix anyone?) Configurable in various 
ways as you describe.
.

An example of how IBM hardware design outpaces its software design.
A couple decades after an IBM terminal supported multiple sessions,
ISPF doesn't support a user's having multiple sessions.

-- gil

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Incorrect.  ISPF supports multiple user sessions as of z/OS V2R1. 
However, the only 'sploiter Luthy, is z/OSMF.


Regards,
Tom Conley

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Re: Question on 3270 Devices

[Linda]

No, I had a 3279 SG3 on my desk.  It was also 4 session, but could have only 
one session in the foreground at a time.  The 3290 could display all four 
sessions on screen at the same time. There was a RPQ for the controller to 
support it. All were IBM branded. 

Linda

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 31, 2015, at 10:54 AM, zMan  wrote:
> 
> Right, but this wasn't IBM, and was color (3279). Clearly a 3290 competitor.
> 
>> On Sat, May 30, 2015 at 10:57 PM, Linda  wrote:
>> 
>> We had several of these. IBM 3290. Ours were coax attached to a couple of
>> IBM 3174 Controllers.  Black background, orange character set.
>> 
>> Linda
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On May 30, 2015, at 5:27 PM, zMan  wrote:
>>> 
>>> OK, this is sorta OT, but related: in the late 1990s I had the pleasure
>> of
>>> working for a while at a customer site. Some of the time I used a
>>> coax-connected device with a large (for the time) screen that could
>> either
>>> support four 3279 sessions at once, or one 3279 session that took the
>> whole
>>> screen (you could switch modes; in single-session mode, you'd then cycle
>>> through the sessions). The single-session mode was great late at night
>> when
>>> very tired.
>>> 
>>> Anyone remember this device? It wasn't IBM.
>>> 
>>> On Fri, May 22, 2015 at 12:40 PM, Pommier, Rex 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Probably the last time they sold one.  :-)
>>>> 
>>>> Rex
>>>> 
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
>> On
>>>> Behalf Of Charles Mills
>>>> Sent: Friday, May 22, 2015 10:44 AM
>>>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>>>> Subject: Re: Question on 3270 Devices
>>>> 
>>>> "revision date 12/26/2003" ???
>>>> 
>>>> Charles
>>>> 
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
>> On
>>>> Behalf Of Mike Schwab
>>>> Sent: Friday, May 22, 2015 8:35 AM
>>>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>>>> Subject: Re: Question on 3270 Devices
>>>> 
>>>> http://www.c-reset.com/terminal.html#IBM
>>>> 
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>>>> 
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>> from
>>>> disclosure and may be legally privileged.  If the reader of this
>> message is
>>>> not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for
>>>> delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
>> notified
>>>> that any disclosure, distribution, copying, or any action taken or
>> action
>>>> omitted in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.
>> If
>>>> you have received this communication in error, please notify us
>> immediately
>>>> by replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety,
>>>> whether in electronic or hard copy format.  Thank you.
>>>> 
>>>> 
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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Re: Question on 3270 Devices

[Ed Finnell]

Some just like to argue. ISPF has had SPLIT since the beginning and if it  
was on a 3290 device SPLITV.
Typically multiple sessions(VTAM) would be a mix of  
ISPF/CICS/OMEGAMON/BETA42 or RMF. 
 
 
In a message dated 5/31/2015 10:15:05 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  
charl...@mcn.org writes:

One  could argue both ISPF and
the 3290 support "split  screen."


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Re: Question on 3270 Devices (3290 Orange Screen!)

[Tony's Outlook via Mozilla]

I loved the 3290, it was the best ever device to design a nicely 
readable report when configured in Cinemascope.  Wish I could emulate it 
on my large monitor.


Always wishing to push a limit I once split my 3290 into 4 screens, each 
having a blinking Omegamon screen running.  I could hear the little gas 
gizmos complaining.


On 5/30/2015 9:57 PM, Linda wrote:

We had several of these. IBM 3290. Ours were coax attached to a couple of IBM 
3174 Controllers.  Black background, orange character set.

Linda

Sent from my iPhone


On May 30, 2015, at 5:27 PM, zMan  wrote:

OK, this is sorta OT, but related: in the late 1990s I had the pleasure of
working for a while at a customer site. Some of the time I used a
coax-connected device with a large (for the time) screen that could either
support four 3279 sessions at once, or one 3279 session that took the whole
screen (you could switch modes; in single-session mode, you'd then cycle
through the sessions). The single-session mode was great late at night when
very tired.

Anyone remember this device? It wasn't IBM.

On Fri, May 22, 2015 at 12:40 PM, Pommier, Rex 
wrote:


Probably the last time they sold one.  :-)

Rex

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Charles Mills
Sent: Friday, May 22, 2015 10:44 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Question on 3270 Devices

"revision date 12/26/2003" ???

Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Mike Schwab
Sent: Friday, May 22, 2015 8:35 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Question on 3270 Devices

http://www.c-reset.com/terminal.html#IBM

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not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for
delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified
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you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately
by replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety,
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Re: Question on 3270 Devices

[zMan]

Right, but this wasn't IBM, and was color (3279). Clearly a 3290 competitor.

On Sat, May 30, 2015 at 10:57 PM, Linda  wrote:

> We had several of these. IBM 3290. Ours were coax attached to a couple of
> IBM 3174 Controllers.  Black background, orange character set.
>
> Linda
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On May 30, 2015, at 5:27 PM, zMan  wrote:
> >
> > OK, this is sorta OT, but related: in the late 1990s I had the pleasure
> of
> > working for a while at a customer site. Some of the time I used a
> > coax-connected device with a large (for the time) screen that could
> either
> > support four 3279 sessions at once, or one 3279 session that took the
> whole
> > screen (you could switch modes; in single-session mode, you'd then cycle
> > through the sessions). The single-session mode was great late at night
> when
> > very tired.
> >
> > Anyone remember this device? It wasn't IBM.
> >
> > On Fri, May 22, 2015 at 12:40 PM, Pommier, Rex 
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Probably the last time they sold one.  :-)
> >>
> >> Rex
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
> On
> >> Behalf Of Charles Mills
> >> Sent: Friday, May 22, 2015 10:44 AM
> >> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> >> Subject: Re: Question on 3270 Devices
> >>
> >> "revision date 12/26/2003" ???
> >>
> >> Charles
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
> On
> >> Behalf Of Mike Schwab
> >> Sent: Friday, May 22, 2015 8:35 AM
> >> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> >> Subject: Re: Question on 3270 Devices
> >>
> >> http://www.c-reset.com/terminal.html#IBM
> >>
> >> --
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> >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> >>
> >>
> >> The information contained in this message is confidential, protected
> from
> >> disclosure and may be legally privileged.  If the reader of this
> message is
> >> not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for
> >> delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
> notified
> >> that any disclosure, distribution, copying, or any action taken or
> action
> >> omitted in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.
> If
> >> you have received this communication in error, please notify us
> immediately
> >> by replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety,
> >> whether in electronic or hard copy format.  Thank you.
> >>
> >>
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> >
> >
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Re: Question on 3270 Devices

[Charles Mills]

It's really TSO that does not, no? If I could just sign onto TSO multiple
times then my desktop with its two 24" monitors would give me all the
multiple sessions I could use.

And I suppose one could argue semantics here. One could argue both ISPF and
the 3290 support "split screen."

Charles
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2015 8:06 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Question on 3270 Devices

On 2015-05-30, at 18:36, J O Skip Robinson wrote:

> Sounds a lot like 3290, which was very much an IBM device. Had a large gas
panel display with orange on black. (Netflix anyone?) Configurable in
various ways as you describe. 
> .
An example of how IBM hardware design outpaces its software design.
A couple decades after an IBM terminal supported multiple sessions, ISPF
doesn't support a user's having multiple sessions.

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Re: Question on 3270 Devices

[Paul Gilmartin]

On 2015-05-30, at 18:36, J O Skip Robinson wrote:

> Sounds a lot like 3290, which was very much an IBM device. Had a large gas 
> panel display with orange on black. (Netflix anyone?) Configurable in various 
> ways as you describe. 
> .
An example of how IBM hardware design outpaces its software design.
A couple decades after an IBM terminal supported multiple sessions,
ISPF doesn't support a user's having multiple sessions.

-- gil

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Re: Question on 3270 Devices

[Ed Finnell]

We had a couple of these for operators. It was a box like the INFO windows  
that a large screen TV. Four DFT sessions. No micro code at controller. 
Don't  remember if it was DATA21 or Barr. 
 
 
In a message dated 5/30/2015 9:57:22 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
linda.lst...@comcast.net writes:

Anyone  remember this device? It wasn't  IBM

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Re: Question on 3270 Devices

[Linda]

We had several of these. IBM 3290. Ours were coax attached to a couple of IBM 
3174 Controllers.  Black background, orange character set. 

Linda

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 30, 2015, at 5:27 PM, zMan  wrote:
> 
> OK, this is sorta OT, but related: in the late 1990s I had the pleasure of
> working for a while at a customer site. Some of the time I used a
> coax-connected device with a large (for the time) screen that could either
> support four 3279 sessions at once, or one 3279 session that took the whole
> screen (you could switch modes; in single-session mode, you'd then cycle
> through the sessions). The single-session mode was great late at night when
> very tired.
> 
> Anyone remember this device? It wasn't IBM.
> 
> On Fri, May 22, 2015 at 12:40 PM, Pommier, Rex 
> wrote:
> 
>> Probably the last time they sold one.  :-)
>> 
>> Rex
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
>> Behalf Of Charles Mills
>> Sent: Friday, May 22, 2015 10:44 AM
>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: Question on 3270 Devices
>> 
>> "revision date 12/26/2003" ???
>> 
>> Charles
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
>> Behalf Of Mike Schwab
>> Sent: Friday, May 22, 2015 8:35 AM
>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: Question on 3270 Devices
>> 
>> http://www.c-reset.com/terminal.html#IBM
>> 
>> --
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>> disclosure and may be legally privileged.  If the reader of this message is
>> not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for
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>> omitted in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.  If
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> 
> 
> 
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Re: Question on 3270 Devices

[Mike Schwab]

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/24418022956044456/
http://www-01.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SSLTBW_2.1.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r1.f54ug00/ispug49.htm


On Sat, May 30, 2015 at 7:36 PM, J O Skip Robinson
 wrote:
> Sounds a lot like 3290, which was very much an IBM device. Had a large gas 
> panel display with orange on black. (Netflix anyone?) Configurable in various 
> ways as you describe.
> .
> .
> .
> J.O.Skip Robinson
> Southern California Edison Company
> Electric Dragon Team Paddler
> SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
> 626-302-7535 Office
> 323-715-0595 Mobile
> jo.skip.robin...@sce.com
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On 
> Behalf Of zMan
> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2015 5:27 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Question on 3270 Devices
>
> OK, this is sorta OT, but related: in the late 1990s I had the pleasure of 
> working for a while at a customer site. Some of the time I used a 
> coax-connected device with a large (for the time) screen that could either 
> support four 3279 sessions at once, or one 3279 session that took the whole 
> screen (you could switch modes; in single-session mode, you'd then cycle 
> through the sessions). The single-session mode was great late at night when 
> very tired.
>
> Anyone remember this device? It wasn't IBM.
>
> On Fri, May 22, 2015 at 12:40 PM, Pommier, Rex 
> wrote:
>
>> Probably the last time they sold one.  :-)
>>
>> Rex
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
>> On Behalf Of Charles Mills
>> Sent: Friday, May 22, 2015 10:44 AM
>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: Question on 3270 Devices
>>
>> "revision date 12/26/2003" ???
>>
>> Charles
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
>> On Behalf Of Mike Schwab
>> Sent: Friday, May 22, 2015 8:35 AM
>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: Question on 3270 Devices
>>
>> http://www.c-reset.com/terminal.html#IBM
>
>
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Re: Question on 3270 Devices

[J O Skip Robinson]

Sounds a lot like 3290, which was very much an IBM device. Had a large gas 
panel display with orange on black. (Netflix anyone?) Configurable in various 
ways as you describe. 
.
.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
626-302-7535 Office
323-715-0595 Mobile
jo.skip.robin...@sce.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of zMan
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2015 5:27 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Question on 3270 Devices

OK, this is sorta OT, but related: in the late 1990s I had the pleasure of 
working for a while at a customer site. Some of the time I used a 
coax-connected device with a large (for the time) screen that could either 
support four 3279 sessions at once, or one 3279 session that took the whole 
screen (you could switch modes; in single-session mode, you'd then cycle 
through the sessions). The single-session mode was great late at night when 
very tired.

Anyone remember this device? It wasn't IBM.

On Fri, May 22, 2015 at 12:40 PM, Pommier, Rex 
wrote:

> Probably the last time they sold one.  :-)
>
> Rex
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] 
> On Behalf Of Charles Mills
> Sent: Friday, May 22, 2015 10:44 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Question on 3270 Devices
>
> "revision date 12/26/2003" ???
>
> Charles
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] 
> On Behalf Of Mike Schwab
> Sent: Friday, May 22, 2015 8:35 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Question on 3270 Devices
>
> http://www.c-reset.com/terminal.html#IBM


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Re: Question on 3270 Devices

[zMan]

OK, this is sorta OT, but related: in the late 1990s I had the pleasure of
working for a while at a customer site. Some of the time I used a
coax-connected device with a large (for the time) screen that could either
support four 3279 sessions at once, or one 3279 session that took the whole
screen (you could switch modes; in single-session mode, you'd then cycle
through the sessions). The single-session mode was great late at night when
very tired.

Anyone remember this device? It wasn't IBM.

On Fri, May 22, 2015 at 12:40 PM, Pommier, Rex 
wrote:

> Probably the last time they sold one.  :-)
>
> Rex
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Charles Mills
> Sent: Friday, May 22, 2015 10:44 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Question on 3270 Devices
>
> "revision date 12/26/2003" ???
>
> Charles
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Mike Schwab
> Sent: Friday, May 22, 2015 8:35 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Question on 3270 Devices
>
> http://www.c-reset.com/terminal.html#IBM
>
> --
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>
>
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> not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for
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Re: (OT) Re: Question on 3270 Devices

[Mike Schwab]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DOEDT6XGBk
One of many Sy / si routines on the Jack Benny Show.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRlmb0xAtBs
Mel Blanc biography show.

On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 2:15 PM, Ward, Mike S  wrote:
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On 
> Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin
> Sent: Friday, May 22, 2015 10:45 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: (OT) Re: Question on 3270 Devices
>
> On Fri, 22 May 2015 09:56:13 -0500, John McKown wrote:
>>
>>My sister opened a computer store in Hawaii. She sells C shells down by
>>the seashore.
>>
> I miss Mel Blanc.
>
> Suffering succotash.
>
> -- gil
>
> --
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> ==
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Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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Re: (OT) Re: Question on 3270 Devices

[Ward, Mike S]

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Friday, May 22, 2015 10:45 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (OT) Re: Question on 3270 Devices

On Fri, 22 May 2015 09:56:13 -0500, John McKown wrote:
>
>My sister opened a computer store in Hawaii. She sells C shells down by 
>the seashore.
> 
I miss Mel Blanc.

Suffering succotash. 

-- gil

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Re: Question on 3270 Devices

[Pommier, Rex]

Probably the last time they sold one.  :-)

Rex

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Charles Mills
Sent: Friday, May 22, 2015 10:44 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Question on 3270 Devices

"revision date 12/26/2003" ???

Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Mike Schwab
Sent: Friday, May 22, 2015 8:35 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Question on 3270 Devices

http://www.c-reset.com/terminal.html#IBM

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Re: Question on 3270 Devices

[Jerry Whitteridge]

Have a look at the Visara devices - they have some.

Jerry Whitteridge
Lead Systems Engineer
Safeway Inc.
925 738 9443
Corporate Tieline - 89443

If you feel in control
you just aren't going fast enough.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Steve Thompson
Sent: Friday, May 22, 2015 7:16 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Question on 3270 Devices

Does anyone know of any real 3270 devices that are available from 
IBM or a third party that are still being serviced and/or 
actively marketed?

I'm thinking that IBM stopped support for all 3270 devices 
(including controllers) somewhere in the '90s.

And I believe all the third party competitors have gotten out of 
this market.

Now, before we get into a history discussion, and all the TN3270 
support -- This thread is about actual physical single purpose 
hardware (i.e., ONLY accepts input from a keyboard, displays on 
screen, and via AID, sends an interrupt to an SCP for it to read 
the buffer(s)) that are actively being marketed, sold, and/or 
supported.

I'm working on a business case having to do with such devices.

Regards,
Steve Thompson

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Re: Question on 3270 Devices

[Christopher Mason]

If you are looking for a current modern technology device that supports
ESCON and FICON SecureAgent makes a 9074 IDG.

http://www.secureagent.com/IDG9074-index.htm

Thanks,


*Chris Mason ▪ Mainframe Systems Engineer ▪ Technical Services Group** ▪ *

*Sungard Availability Services*

401 North Broad Street Mezz Floor ▪ Office: *215-351-3688* ▪ Fax:
*215-351-0708* ▪

christopher.ma...@sungardas.com ▪ www.sungardas.com



  





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On Fri, May 22, 2015 at 10:16 AM, Steve Thompson  wrote:

> Does anyone know of any real 3270 devices that are available from IBM or a
> third party that are still being serviced and/or actively marketed?
>
> I'm thinking that IBM stopped support for all 3270 devices (including
> controllers) somewhere in the '90s.
>
> And I believe all the third party competitors have gotten out of this
> market.
>
> Now, before we get into a history discussion, and all the TN3270 support
> -- This thread is about actual physical single purpose hardware (i.e., ONLY
> accepts input from a keyboard, displays on screen, and via AID, sends an
> interrupt to an SCP for it to read the buffer(s)) that are actively being
> marketed, sold, and/or supported.
>
> I'm working on a business case having to do with such devices.
>
> Regards,
> Steve Thompson
>
> --
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(OT) Re: Question on 3270 Devices

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Fri, 22 May 2015 09:56:13 -0500, John McKown wrote:
>
>My sister opened a computer store in Hawaii. She sells C shells down by the
>seashore.
> 
I miss Mel Blanc.

-- gil

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Re: Question on 3270 Devices

[Charles Mills]

"revision date 12/26/2003" ???

Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Mike Schwab
Sent: Friday, May 22, 2015 8:35 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Question on 3270 Devices

http://www.c-reset.com/terminal.html#IBM

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Re: Question on 3270 Devices

[Mike Schwab]

Jay Maynard bought a 3174 with a Token Ring and Ethernet to plug into
a PC running Hercules.
He already had an Apple ][ with a Token Ring, so he plugged it in and
used it as a console.

Not that Apple ][s are cheap and readily available.

On Fri, May 22, 2015 at 10:25 AM, Pommier, Rex  wrote:
> What machine are you planning on plugging this 3x74 into?  IIRC, the 3274s 
> were strictly bus and tag, and there were some 3174s that were ESCON-capable. 
>  I have no experience with the 9074 machines, but IBM doesn't support ESCON 
> on anything more current than the z196/z114, do they?  So you're looking at 
> something like a PRIZM box to convert Ficon to ESCON (to parallel).
>
>
> Rex
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On 
> Behalf Of Steve Thompson
> Sent: Friday, May 22, 2015 7:16 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Question on 3270 Devices
>
> Does anyone know of any real 3270 devices that are available from IBM or a 
> third party that are still being serviced and/or actively marketed?
>
> I'm thinking that IBM stopped support for all 3270 devices (including 
> controllers) somewhere in the '90s.
>
> And I believe all the third party competitors have gotten out of this market.
>
> Now, before we get into a history discussion, and all the TN3270 support -- 
> This thread is about actual physical single purpose hardware (i.e., ONLY 
> accepts input from a keyboard, displays on screen, and via AID, sends an 
> interrupt to an SCP for it to read the buffer(s)) that are actively being 
> marketed, sold, and/or supported.
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
>
> The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from 
> disclosure and may be legally privileged.  If the reader of this message is 
> not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering 
> this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any 
> disclosure, distribution, copying, or any action taken or action omitted in 
> reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.  If you have 
> received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by 
> replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in 
> electronic or hard copy format.  Thank you.
>
>
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Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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Re: Question on 3270 Devices

[Mike Schwab]

http://www.c-reset.com/terminal.html#IBM


On Fri, May 22, 2015 at 9:16 AM, Steve Thompson  wrote:
> Does anyone know of any real 3270 devices that are available from IBM or a
> third party that are still being serviced and/or actively marketed?
>
> I'm thinking that IBM stopped support for all 3270 devices (including
> controllers) somewhere in the '90s.
>
> And I believe all the third party competitors have gotten out of this
> market.
>
> Now, before we get into a history discussion, and all the TN3270 support --
> This thread is about actual physical single purpose hardware (i.e., ONLY
> accepts input from a keyboard, displays on screen, and via AID, sends an
> interrupt to an SCP for it to read the buffer(s)) that are actively being
> marketed, sold, and/or supported.
>
> I'm working on a business case having to do with such devices.
>
> Regards,
> Steve Thompson
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN



-- 
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Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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Re: Question on 3270 Devices

[Pommier, Rex]

Sorry, make that 2074, not 9074 - getting my numbers messed up

Rex


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Pommier, Rex
Sent: Friday, May 22, 2015 10:25 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Question on 3270 Devices

What machine are you planning on plugging this 3x74 into?  IIRC, the 3274s were 
strictly bus and tag, and there were some 3174s that were ESCON-capable.  I 
have no experience with the 9074 machines, but IBM doesn't support ESCON on 
anything more current than the z196/z114, do they?  So you're looking at 
something like a PRIZM box to convert Ficon to ESCON (to parallel).


Rex

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Steve Thompson
Sent: Friday, May 22, 2015 7:16 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Question on 3270 Devices

Does anyone know of any real 3270 devices that are available from IBM or a 
third party that are still being serviced and/or actively marketed?

I'm thinking that IBM stopped support for all 3270 devices (including 
controllers) somewhere in the '90s.

And I believe all the third party competitors have gotten out of this market.

Now, before we get into a history discussion, and all the TN3270 support -- 
This thread is about actual physical single purpose hardware (i.e., ONLY 
accepts input from a keyboard, displays on screen, and via AID, sends an 
interrupt to an SCP for it to read the buffer(s)) that are actively being 
marketed, sold, and/or supported.

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Re: Question on 3270 Devices

[Pommier, Rex]

What machine are you planning on plugging this 3x74 into?  IIRC, the 3274s were 
strictly bus and tag, and there were some 3174s that were ESCON-capable.  I 
have no experience with the 9074 machines, but IBM doesn't support ESCON on 
anything more current than the z196/z114, do they?  So you're looking at 
something like a PRIZM box to convert Ficon to ESCON (to parallel).


Rex

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Steve Thompson
Sent: Friday, May 22, 2015 7:16 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Question on 3270 Devices

Does anyone know of any real 3270 devices that are available from IBM or a 
third party that are still being serviced and/or actively marketed?

I'm thinking that IBM stopped support for all 3270 devices (including 
controllers) somewhere in the '90s.

And I believe all the third party competitors have gotten out of this market.

Now, before we get into a history discussion, and all the TN3270 support -- 
This thread is about actual physical single purpose hardware (i.e., ONLY 
accepts input from a keyboard, displays on screen, and via AID, sends an 
interrupt to an SCP for it to read the buffer(s)) that are actively being 
marketed, sold, and/or supported.

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Re: Question on 3270 Devices

[Steve Thompson]

Thanks for the replies.

I doubt that any of those devices are in use with the possible 
exception of the control room where they have Master Consoles.


The rest of us are required to use TN3270 emulation under Windows.

Now, think of time-out and auditors.

Regards,
Steve Thompson

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Re: Question on 3270 Devices

[Charles Mills]

http://www.argecy.com/index.php?pfile=3274 

Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Steve Thompson
Sent: Friday, May 22, 2015 7:16 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Question on 3270 Devices

Does anyone know of any real 3270 devices that are available from IBM or a 
third party that are still being serviced and/or actively marketed?

I'm thinking that IBM stopped support for all 3270 devices (including 
controllers) somewhere in the '90s.

And I believe all the third party competitors have gotten out of this market.

Now, before we get into a history discussion, and all the TN3270 support -- 
This thread is about actual physical single purpose hardware (i.e., ONLY 
accepts input from a keyboard, displays on screen, and via AID, sends an 
interrupt to an SCP for it to read the buffer(s)) that are actively being 
marketed, sold, and/or supported.

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Re: Question on 3270 Devices

[John McKown]

On Fri, May 22, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Elardus Engelbrecht <
elardus.engelbre...@sita.co.za> wrote:
​​


>
> Groete / Greetings
> Elardus Engelbrecht
>
> Worst pick-up line:
>
> Boy trying to impress his new girlfriend: "On a scale from 1 to America,
> how free are you tonight?"
>
> Girlfriend: "I'm North Korea".
>

​ I love it!​


-- 
My sister opened a computer store in Hawaii. She sells C shells down by the
seashore.

If someone tell you that nothing is impossible:
Ask him to dribble a football.

He's about as useful as a wax frying pan.

10 to the 12th power microphones = 1 Megaphone

Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Re: Question on 3270 Devices

[Elardus Engelbrecht]

Steve Thompson wrote:

>I'm thinking that IBM stopped support for all 3270 devices (including 
>controllers) somewhere in the '90s.

If so, what hardware is *now* available on z/OS side to accept/handle those 
devices/controllers?

>And I believe all the third party competitors have gotten out of this market.

Only emulator vendors are all that remain, AFAIK. And, AFAIK, all of them are 
using TCP/IP to emulate SNA.

>I'm working on a business case having to do with such devices.

For 3 and half nanoseconds I was thinking about those emulator software you can 
run on your web-browser, but then it is not what you want.

Hmmm, if you got good results, could you be kind to post on IBM-MAIN what you 
found?

Just curious, if you don't mind please.

Groete / Greetings
Elardus Engelbrecht

Worst pick-up line:

Boy trying to impress his new girlfriend: "On a scale from 1 to America, how 
free are you tonight?"

Girlfriend: "I'm North Korea".

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Re: Question on 3270 Devices

[Mark Jacobs - Listserv]

Try this. I get an email from them every so often and I know they have 
3174's for sale


Global Hardware Suppliers, Inc.
7595 Mariner Point North, Suite 101
Maple Grove, MN 55311

E-mail: donob...@comcast.net 



Direct Phone: (763) 494-3559




Steve Thompson 
May 22, 2015 at 10:16 AM
Does anyone know of any real 3270 devices that are available from
IBM or a third party that are still being serviced and/or
actively marketed?

I'm thinking that IBM stopped support for all 3270 devices
(including controllers) somewhere in the '90s.

And I believe all the third party competitors have gotten out of
this market.

Now, before we get into a history discussion, and all the TN3270
support -- This thread is about actual physical single purpose
hardware (i.e., ONLY accepts input from a keyboard, displays on
screen, and via AID, sends an interrupt to an SCP for it to read
the buffer(s)) that are actively being marketed, sold, and/or
supported.

I'm working on a business case having to do with such devices.

Regards,
Steve Thompson

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Re: Question on 3270 Devices

[Skellen, Frank]

How about this?

http://www.visara.com/maindocs/DSheet/dsUCT_7_29_2009.pdf



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Steve Thompson
Sent: Friday, May 22, 2015 10:16 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Question on 3270 Devices

Does anyone know of any real 3270 devices that are available from IBM or a 
third party that are still being serviced and/or actively marketed?

I'm thinking that IBM stopped support for all 3270 devices (including 
controllers) somewhere in the '90s.

And I believe all the third party competitors have gotten out of this market.

Now, before we get into a history discussion, and all the TN3270 support -- 
This thread is about actual physical single purpose hardware (i.e., ONLY 
accepts input from a keyboard, displays on screen, and via AID, sends an 
interrupt to an SCP for it to read the buffer(s)) that are actively being 
marketed, sold, and/or supported.

I'm working on a business case having to do with such devices.

Regards,
Steve Thompson

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Question on 3270 Devices

[Steve Thompson]

Does anyone know of any real 3270 devices that are available from 
IBM or a third party that are still being serviced and/or 
actively marketed?


I'm thinking that IBM stopped support for all 3270 devices 
(including controllers) somewhere in the '90s.


And I believe all the third party competitors have gotten out of 
this market.


Now, before we get into a history discussion, and all the TN3270 
support -- This thread is about actual physical single purpose 
hardware (i.e., ONLY accepts input from a keyboard, displays on 
screen, and via AID, sends an interrupt to an SCP for it to read 
the buffer(s)) that are actively being marketed, sold, and/or 
supported.


I'm working on a business case having to do with such devices.

Regards,
Steve Thompson

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