Re: [IceHorses] Cavallo Article / FEIF's answer
On Dec 31, 2007, at 1:42 PM, Mic Rushen wrote: On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 11:35:07 -0500, you wrote: I’m sure there was a noseband, and I think it was dropped – maybe Mic has the picture. Here she is. Pics by John Freeman. It's a flash. Mic Good Lord, Mic - how awful. Who is the rider? It better not plan on meeting me in a nice private place. I'd be tempted to commit a crime. The poor helpless horse!! Anneliese
Re: [IceHorses] Cavallo Article / FEIF's answer
On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 19:14:34 -0800, you wrote: Mic, what are your thoughts about this? any comments / input? After the WC, I put on my official UK Breeding Leader hat and sent a whole bunch of the worst photos of horse abuse from the WC to the head of the FEIF sports committee and to Jens Iversen, President of FEIF. I asked how they felt the photos tied in with FEIF's goals of horse welfare, and what sort of image they portrayed of the Icelandic horse and its training. I never received any reply. I wasn't (and am still not) impressed. However, I think Will Covert DID have some success (as a FEIF International Judge) in getting them to listen - at least the Peruvian spade bit has been banned. All kudos to him, and especially to Sali Peterson who first made a noise to the USIHC about the use of the bit and got Will to go to FEIF with it. There have been some good articles in the last couple of Eidfaxi's (both English and Icelandic) about how we are perceived, how horses are trained etc etc, but there has also been a fair bit of support on the Eidfaxi site for Runa Einarsdottir-Zingsheim (the woman who rode the grey 5 gait horse in pace that was the star photo of the Cavallo article), saying it was a bad moment in time etc etc etc. I have to say from a personal point of view, as someone who was there watching, I suspect in Runa's case it probably WAS a bad moment in time - at no time did I see her intentionally abusing her horse, and almost always her riding was gentle, correct and sympathetic. However, that was certainly NOT the case with many other riders at the WC and sadly, elsewhere too. There's also been some discussion about 5-gait being ridden on an oval track - it is VERY hard to ride a 5 gait test well and to get that short, fast side of pace (not to mention risking horrible injury to the horse if it paces fast round the corners). Hard on the horse, and hard on the rider too it's noticeable that an awful lot of the nastiest photos from the WC were taken as the riders were taking their horses down into pace in the 5 gait class. There's a lot of pressure, the horses are excited, sometimes even the nicest rider gets carried away. You have literally about 3 strides to get the pace or you don't get a mark Walter Feldman Jr writes in the latest Eidfaxi that pace should never be shown on the oval track, and that the pace component of a 5 gait test should be moved onto a straight track where the horse and rider can show pace properly, without risk or undue pressure. I think that's a really good idea. Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
RE: [IceHorses] Cavallo Article / FEIF's answer
However, I think Will Covert DID have some success (as a FEIF International Judge) in getting them to listen - at least the Peruvian spade bit has been banned. All kudos to him, and especially to Sali Peterson who first made a noise to the USIHC about the use of the bit and got Will to go to FEIF with it. All the stuff I read from Americans gave me the impression they (the writers of the posts) gave me was that they were almost more concerned about the cultural invasion of using a Spanish-associated bit. Maybe I'm wrong, but I didn't get the feeling that the rage was so much directed towards the harshness of the bit. I really think there was a there goes the neighborhood attitude at work, compromising the exclusive culture of Iceland. And I think the wording of the FEIF rules on bits is ludicrous. I hate the phrasing of disallowing bits from other cultures. In this day and age, most bits are used internationally - good bits and bad bits. Culture has nothing to do with it - in fact, they have recently embraced the horrible leveler noseband, and that most certainly isn't an old Icelandic custom - neither are the nasty Pessoa bitting rigs they sell on astund.is. It's perfectly possible to define bits by their mechanics, their dimensions, etc., and to ban bits that don't meet certain minimal standards. Other breeds and disciplines do it all the time. Come to think of it, dropped nosebands aren't part of Icelandic culture - any more than Peruvian bits are... But, by gawd, we see dropped nosebands with long-shanked bits all the time. Nasty... FEIF and all its members could cut to the chase and drop all the cultural smoke and mirrors and make rules that aren't so easy for the loophole-lookers to find. Culture is a word that has no place in any show standards - it's a human word. Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.12/1203 - Release Date: 12/30/2007 11:27 AM IceHorses Community for Photos and Videos: http://kickapps.com/icehorses The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. ~ Arthur Schopenhauer [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [IceHorses] Cavallo Article / FEIF's answer
I strongly disagree. The Icelanders are happy to use just about any bit that works, but as I said before, only the not fitting culture argument could be used. I'm not really talking about Icelanders - FEIF almost seems to be more of a European entity to me, but maybe I'm wrong. This is another case where we're talking Icelandic style - not about the people of Iceland at all. And the cultural aspect must be important to some people at FEIF - otherwise, why did they change the description of allowed/disallowed bits just a couple of years ago? Previously, there were descriptions (and pictures too, I believe?) of allowed bits, then suddenly the rules were rephrased to the vague culture phrasing. Why the regression to something so vague? Yes, me too. I suspect the idea was more to ban things like driving bits, long shanked Western bits etc, I've heard that, but it doesn't make sense to me. There is no universal definition of driving bit and some people drive in bits that are perfectly acceptable riding bits - right? And, I betcha there are rules for driving competitions that allow and disallow certain bits...? I'm guessing there. And all western curb bits most certainly aren't created equally. Some western bits are very mild, and some are tortuous...some are allowed in certain western competitions, while others are disallowed - ironically, the western version of the cowboy snaffle (sometimes called a Tom Thumb snaffle even though it's not a snaffle at all) is not allowed in certain western competitions. But, it's the American bit that is most like an Icelandic bit - I'm pretty sure that astund.is sells literally, identically the same Tom Thumb Snaffle bits. Do they suddenly become Icelandic bits if you buy them from astund.is? I'd like to know specifically what about a western bit they'd want to ban - something functional about the bits, or would they simply want to ban superficial traits, like silver engravings? Why ban long shanked western bits when long-shanked Icelandic bits are allowed? It is clear as mud. but as usual too many people who don't have English as a first language (but think they are fluent) were involved in writing the rules, along with a few native English speakers who have been so closely involved with FEIF for so many years they no longer seem to notice oddities like this and think it's normal! The language barrier seems like a convenient excuse to me. After all, it's perfectly easy to provide pictures with diagrams and dimensions of allowed/disallowed bits. Many other international disciplines do just that - heck, if that was a real reason, they could simply start by copying some of the FEI bitting rules, making adjustments as needed. (I've always assumed they stole the FEIF acronym from the FEI, but maybe I'm wrong.) After all FEI is truly an international body, controlling the international competitions in driving, dressage, eventing, show jumping, reining and endurance - I'm sure they have to address more different languages than we see in the almost exclusively northern European Icelandic competitions. I swear I remember that there were once pictures associated with the FEIF rules. If the rules hadn't been more clear until recently, I might accept that, but since there was an obvious step backwards just a year or two ago, I'm not buying it. Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.12/1203 - Release Date: 12/30/2007 11:27 AM IceHorses Community for Photos and Videos: http://kickapps.com/icehorses The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. ~ Arthur Schopenhauer [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [IceHorses] Cavallo Article / FEIF's answer
On Dec 31, 2007, at 3:58 AM, Karen Thomas wrote: However, I think Will Covert DID have some success (as a FEIF International Judge) in getting them to listen - at least the Peruvian spade bit has been banned. All kudos to him, and especially to Sali Peterson who first made a noise to the USIHC about the use of the bit and got Will to go to FEIF with it. All the stuff I read from Americans gave me the impression they (the writers of the posts) gave me was that they were almost more concerned about the cultural invasion of using a Spanish-associated bit. Maybe I'm wrong, but I didn't get the feeling that the rage was so much directed towards the harshness of the bit. I really think there was a there goes the neighborhood attitude at work, compromising the exclusive culture of Iceland. Curious. I have Peruvians and they are all finished in Peruvian bits, which I don't consider a particularly harsh bit at all. The finished horse works on a loose rein with its mouth closed and its poll flexed. But I can easily see if this bit were adopted by a snaffle bit equitation culture such as I've seen in pictures on this list over the years -- reins taut, nose in the air, mouth tied shut, rider apparently hanging on for dear life -- and even worse, if this bit were used to start a horse, then yes, it would not be in the horse's best interest. The cultural disciplines that use a curb or spade bit (Peruvian,Paso Fino, vaquero, reining . . .) start the horse from the beginning with the final bit in mind -- and that includes several months of bitless saddle training in a bosal or bozal. Lynn Kinsky, Santa Ynez, CA http://www.silcom.com/~lkinsky/ http://www.dslextreme.com/~napha/JoyOfRiding/index.htm
RE: [IceHorses] Cavallo Article / FEIF's answer
I have Peruvians and they are all finished in Peruvian bits, which I don't consider a particularly harsh bit at all. The finished horse works on a loose rein with its mouth closed and its poll flexed. Lynn, I hope you didn’t misinterpret what I said as a criticism of your kind of riding. There are lots of horses in my area, many breeds, many disciplines, but for some odd reason, I’ve had virtually no contact with either of the traditional Paso breeds (Peruvian or Fino) training. I only repeated what I heard about the show rulings. I certainly respect the sound of the way YOU say you work with your horses. Nothing personal, ok? :-) I DO seem to remember that the rider in question – a German girl, I think I remember, riding for the USA team for who knows what reason? – was also using a dropped noseband with the Peruvian bit. I’m sure there was a noseband, and I think it was dropped – maybe Mic has the picture. To me, the greater of the sins is using a dropped noseband with ANY shanked bit…but that has been allowed in FEIF showing for a while now... WITH heavy rein contact. Go figure. Hmmm. Now I wonder if part of the outcry was maybe about the politics behind the selection of a German girl to ride on the American team… Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.12/1203 - Release Date: 12/30/2007 11:27 AM
RE: [IceHorses] Cavallo Article / FEIF's answer
Hi Lynn I have Peruvians and they are all finished in Peruvian bits, which I don't consider a particularly harsh bit at all. The finished horse works on a loose rein with its mouth closed and its poll flexed. That is the way I have seen Peruvians ridden in bit is like with the spade bit - there is a slack in the rein, the horses are carrying themselves. The reins are used in the lightest way - quite different from what was shown in the photo that prompted the change. I don't really think it is often about any bit but rather how it is used. A snaffle can be incredibly severe depending on the type of snaffle and how it is used. Robyn Icelandic Horse Farm Robyn Hood Phil Pretty Vernon BC Canada www.icefarm.com _
Re: [IceHorses] Cavallo Article / FEIF's answer
On 30/12/2007, Judy Ryder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From FEIF's website: FEIF answers Cavallo I believe that FEIF, no matter how much they want to explain away a situation, is now on the radar screen. I fully expect to see more unfavorable reports out of Europe. Wanda
Re: [IceHorses] Cavallo Article / FEIF's answer
Will Covert DID have some success (as a FEIFInternational Judge) in getting them to listen - at least the Peruvian spade bit has been banned. All kudos to him, and especially to Sali Peterson who first made a noise to the USIHC about the use of the bit and got Will to go to FEIF with it. Hi...my gut feeling was that they withdrew the Peruvian bit due to the fact that it is not an Icelandic piece of equipment. Will they also start disallowing other tack from other countries? Will they get to a point where only Icelandic made equipment is allowed? Then why the dropped noseband, I believe that it was Germany who introduced this to the Icelandic breed (??). I personally do not believe that disallowing the Peruvian bit was due to the fact that it is a harsh bit. Isn't the long shank Icelandic bit still allowed? I do hope they keep the pace on a straight track, I would hate to see horses being injured just for a blue. Can I ask what has the pace has been traditionally used for in Iceland? Getting from village to village as fast as possible or only in competition? Reason I ask, is if it's a risky gait for maneuvering curves and bends, it's not IMO...a gait that could be utilized for trail riding. I have only seen pace on the trail a few times, and then it was on a long straight open trail. It was a hoot to watch! The horses were indeed flying! Huginn and I were doing a tolt, then went into a canter...then went into a gallop and still we could not catch up. HA! BTW...I also do not believe that FEIF will start making big changes to their competition rules based solely on the whims of the USA. I think that when and if all countries with FEIF membership get on the same page...that is when change will start to happen. Raven Lucy Molly, the Girl Doggies Huginn Dixie Chick, the Back Behind the Barn Ponies Maggie Rose, the cat who makes me sneeze http://www.myspace.com/iceponygoddess Respect ALL Earthlings. We are all animals of this planet. We are all creatures.
Re: [IceHorses] Cavallo Article / FEIF's answer
what are the tapa ojos for? I need me one of those ponchos... as for the bit, how does the spoon part work? when you pull back does it depress the tongue, and if so what is the purpose exactly. Janice -- yipie tie yie yo
Re: [IceHorses] Cavallo Article / FEIF's answer
The cultural disciplines that use a curb or spade bit (Peruvian,Paso Fino, vaquero, reining . . .) start the horse from the beginning with the final bit in mind -- and that includes several months of bitless saddle training in a bosal or bozal. I think you're right, Lynn; there are two different paradigms and the icelandic-style is sort of diametrically opposed to the paso style... icelandic-style being with heavy contact from the beginning to the end, with no other options or goals. Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Cavallo Article / FEIF's answer
have Peruvians and they are all finished in Peruvian bits all the PP that i ride with and have seen over the last 10 years are in hacks or bosals. i remember the first time i rode a PP...lord, i fell in love with that breed. Raven Lucy Molly, the Girl Doggies Huginn Dixie Chick, the Back Behind the Barn Ponies Maggie Rose, the cat who makes me sneeze http://www.myspace.com/iceponygoddess Respect ALL Earthlings. We are all animals of this planet. We are all creatures.
Re: [IceHorses] Cavallo Article / FEIF's answer
I'm not really talking about Icelanders - FEIF almost seems to be more of a European entity to me, but maybe I'm wrong. It is European, but very strongly influenced by Iceland, Sweden and Germany purely because they have the most horses and the most members. just a couple of years ago? Previously, there were descriptions (and pictures too, I believe?) of allowed bits, then suddenly the rules were rephrased to the vague culture phrasing. Why the regression to something so vague? It used to be everything not specifically allowed is forbidden. Now it's everything not specifically forbidden is allowed. This was brought in mainly because there were so many new bits appearing on the market (like the Happy Mouth, for instance, which under the old rules wasn't allowed!). I've heard that, but it doesn't make sense to me. No, nor me, but I've heard many of the discussions at the various FEIF meetings which led to the rule being changed. There is no universal definition of driving bit and some people drive in bits that are perfectly acceptable riding bits - right? Yes.However, it's generally accepted that Wilton snaffles and Liverpool bits are not suitable for riding (just as an example). And, I betcha there are rules for driving competitions that allow and disallow certain bits...? I'm guessing there. I imagine there are, especially at lower levels, but at International driving competitions I've seen all the horses have been in Liverpool bits, a lot of them on rough cheek (ie the lowest, most severe setting). And all western curb bits most certainly aren't created equally. Some I'd like to know specifically what about a western bit they'd want to ban Western and driving bits were just an example I thought of off the top of my head. To me, the words Western bit conjure up something that has 10 inch shanks on a spade bit (though not usually a broken bit, and never used with a drop noseband). The language barrier seems like a convenient excuse to me. After all, it's Maybe it does seem an excuse to you - you've never been to a FEIF Delegates Assembly where people with around 12 different languages are trying to work together. All of them pretty much amateur volunteers running on a tight budget compared with something like the FEI that - heck, if that was a real reason, they could simply start by copying some of the FEI bitting rules, making adjustments as needed. I really wish they would do this! It's something John and I have been discussing, but it's bloody hard to get the support to push it through. (I've always assumed they stole the FEIF acronym from the FEI, but maybe I'm wrong.) You are. It comes from (in my extremely poor written German) Federation European Islandpferde Freunde, the Federation of European Icelandic Horse Friends. BTW, Happy New Year! Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Re: [IceHorses] Cavallo Article / FEIF's answer
Hi...my gut feeling was that they withdrew the Peruvian bit due to the fact that it is not an Icelandic piece of equipment. That's the FIPO rule they used to withdraw it (though why the hell it was allowed in the fist place at the WC I don't know). Will they get to a point where only Icelandic made equipment is allowed? As Icelandic-manufactured bits cost around $200 at least, somehow I doubt it! ; ) Then why the dropped noseband, I believe that it was Germany who introduced this to the Icelandic breed (??). Yes. And the Leveller noseband and various other lovely ideas. a blue. Can I ask what has the pace has been traditionally used for in Iceland? Getting from village to village as fast as possible or only in competition? Reason I ask, is if it's a risky gait for maneuvering curves and bends, it's not IMO...a gait that could be utilized for trail riding. It IS used on the trail, on trails that are long and straight (which they have a fair few of), mostly just as a blast, to show off to your friends, to have a good time. Mostly it's used in competition for racing. They never, ever used to do it on an oval track in Iceland until the last few decades, after the Germans started doing 5 gait tests on the oval track. Even now, the most popular competition in Iceland (gaedingakeppni), which is held on a large oval track, does not show pace there but moves onto a straight track for that segment. Hey, maybe we should be referring to German Traditional Icelandic Style Riding! ; ) catch up. HA! BTW...I also do not believe that FEIF will start making big changes to their competition rules based solely on the whims of the USA. No, they won't. Until Iceland, Germany and Sweden agree too, it's just not going to change that much. I really think that even if the other FEIF countries all got together against the Big Three, it would still take some doing. : ( Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Re: [IceHorses] Cavallo Article / FEIF's answer
On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 08:15:00 -0800, you wrote: I have Peruvians and they are all finished in Peruvian bits, which I don't consider a particularly harsh bit at all. The finished horse works on a loose rein with its mouth closed and its poll flexed. That's the difference, isn't it? Take a horse which hasn't been taught to accept even a really mild snaffle, shove on a Peruvian or Western bit, tie its mouth shut with a tight noseband, hang on the reins. that's why the no bits from other cultures rules, I think. Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Re: [IceHorses] Cavallo Article / FEIF's answer
After the WC, I put on my official UK Breeding Leader hat and sent a whole bunch of the worst photos of horse abuse from the WC to the head of the FEIF sports committee and to Jens Iversen, President of FEIF. I asked how they felt the photos tied in with FEIF's goals of horse welfare, and what sort of image they portrayed of the Icelandic horse and its training. I never received any reply. I wasn't (and am still not) impressed. Thanks for the input. Do you think it was an excuse on their part, then, to say that they did not get to have input on the article? After all, they had the opportunity to respond to the What Are They Applauding on the Eidfaxi blog, as well as to you and your input. Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Cavallo Article / FEIF's answer
racing. They never, ever used to do it on an oval track in Iceland until the last few decades The pace races in the US are on oval tracks, aren't they? Hey, maybe we should be referring to German Traditional Icelandic Style Riding! ; ) Good point, Mic! It's been hard, over the years, to try to come up with a descriptive name for whatever type of riding it is. I guess in my mind, it's all non-horsemanship type riding. No, they won't. Until Iceland, Germany and Sweden agree too, it's just not going to change that much. I really think that even if the other FEIF countries all got together against the Big Three, it would still take some doing. : ( I would be satisfied to see a definitive line, and most of all understanding, that there is (stupid) competition riding, and good horsemanship riding, and that people employ the latter for the benefit of themselves and their horses. The problem is that our novice buyers also buy into the icelandic-riding style and perpetuate the problem of financially supporting those who are training horses and riders in abusive manners. Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Cavallo Article / FEIF's answer
On Dec 31, 2007, at 9:41 AM, Janice McDonald wrote: what are the tapa ojos for? I need me one of those ponchos... as for the bit, how does the spoon part work? when you pull back does it depress the tongue, and if so what is the purpose exactly. Janice The tapa ojos sit above the eyes and can be slid down to cover the eyes in appropriate situations. A horse with its eyes covered pretty much won't move. They are used in Peru as the equivalent of hobbles (the coastal desert has no trees to tie to during a rest stop). Trainers working alone will use them when first mounting a horse in training so it won't spook as it sees the human swinging up onto it's back. Or when saddling. I've used them on horses that seem concerned about seeing the farrier or vet working around them (a bandana will work too). But for the most part, they are just a piece of the traditional tack. I'm not a trainer so I haven't studied the bit's working in detail, but if you pull back on the reins the port will swivel up and touch the palate while the bar puts pressure on the tongue. Meanwhile, the curb chain will tighten on the chin. The bit swivels at each cheekpiece so you have a wide variety of cues you can give through the bit. Combined with the seat and leg commands, you get a light style expected of pleasure/performance/equitation riders in the show ring: (i) Seat and Hands. Rider should convey impression of effective and easy control. Good hands - showing sympathy, adaptability and control - are paramount. Hands slightly above pommel. Light contact with horse's mouth. Reins held in left hand, with or without fingers between the reins. Romal on right side held in relaxed position in right hand, slightly behind right thigh. I gather this was *not* the the equitation that caused the fuss in Europe g. Lynn Kinsky, Santa Ynez, CA http://www.silcom.com/~lkinsky/
RE: [IceHorses] Cavallo Article / FEIF's answer
Hey, maybe we should be referring to German Traditional Icelandic Style Riding! ; ) No, no, no. Now, Mic, that's not politically correct at all. :) Ironically, the two people I met first and spent time with in conjunction with Icelandic horses were Anneliese and Christine Schwartz...both Germans for whom I have great respect. Come to think of it, they both have great senses of humor, so they'd probably take it ok. We can amend the name to be the Non-Christine-Non-Anneliese-German-Traditional-Icelandic-Riding-Style. Catchy, huh? The real irony to me is how this has gone full circle in a few decades - speaking of the German influence I mean. I've heard from a couple of different sources this story and I believe it. When the first boatloads of Icelandics went to Germany (1960's maybe?) there were essentially no gaited horses at all left in Northern Europe. So...where did they turn? The version I've always heard was that there were a few American Saddlebreds being imported into Germany about that time - so they turned to some American show horse trainers. And of course, a look back at history will show that the darkest era in American gaited horse history was probably about the 1960's and 1970's...in the show ring. By the time I got my first TWH, in the late 1980's, the Big Lick thing was already going into its backlash phase here in the USA, at least in my part of NC. But then people like Janice and me who have known gaited horses for a long time got into Icelandics, and we see some eerie similarities and we got lectured to educate ourselves. Duh. Honestly, those of us who have been around American Saddlebreds will tell you that the similarities to today's Icelandic showing is not funny at all. It's downright scary. Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.12/1203 - Release Date: 12/30/2007 11:27 AM IceHorses Community for Photos and Videos: http://kickapps.com/icehorses The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. ~ Arthur Schopenhauer [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [IceHorses] Cavallo Article / FEIF's answer
On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 10:29:42 -0800, you wrote: Do you think it was an excuse on their part, then, to say that they did not get to have input on the article? I don't really know. It's possible Cavallo just printed the article without approaching FEIF, or maybe Cavallo did approach them and they didn't bother to reply, like with me. Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
RE: [IceHorses] Cavallo Article / FEIF's answer
Here she is. Pics by John Freeman. It's a flash. Mic With THAT much rein contact and a noseband THAT tight, ANY BIT would be a problem. That's just ludicrous. Banning the bit seems missing the bigger point, now doesn't it? Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.12/1203 - Release Date: 12/30/2007 11:27 AM
Re: [IceHorses] Cavallo Article / FEIF's answer
Here she is. Pics by John Freeman. It's a flash. And look at the pull on those 3 lips! And does FEIF really care? They say the welfare of the horse is one of our main concerns. Are they kidding?!?!? So... are the gaits natural? We just don't know. The horse has so much interference at the tolt, and also at the trot, that we can't tell if the horse is naturally any good at either one! Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Cavallo Article / FEIF's answer
It's possible Cavallo just printed the article without approaching FEIF, or maybe Cavallo did approach them and they didn't bother to reply, like with me. And really, Cavallo doesn't have to contact FEIF for anything. They just report what they see, and obviously lots of people can see it, first-hand, pictures, video. It doesn't help for FEIF to say we care and then not do anything about it, or make excuses. In any case, I applaud you and John for taking a stand. I think you'll do a great job in opening eyes over there and in getting things changed. Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
RE: [IceHorses] Cavallo Article / FEIF's answer
With THAT much rein contact and a noseband THAT tight, ANY BIT would be a problem. That's just ludicrous. Banning the bit seems missing the bigger point, now doesn't it? Bits from other cultures...? Sheesh, how about banning riders with no clue and no common decency...? Would that situation have been ANY better with an allowed Icelandic bit...? Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.12/1203 - Release Date: 12/30/2007 11:27 AM
RE: [IceHorses] Cavallo Article / FEIF's answer
In any case, I applaud you and John for taking a stand. I think you'll do a great job in opening eyes over there and in getting things changed. AMEN! Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.12/1203 - Release Date: 12/30/2007 11:27 AM
RE: [IceHorses] Cavallo Article / FEIF's answer
Hands slightly above pommel. Light contact with horse's mouth. Reins held in left hand, with or without fingers between the reins. Romal on right side held in relaxed position in right hand, slightly behind right thigh. …. I gather this was *not* the the equitation that caused the fuss in Europe g. No, the hands are often BETWEEN the thighs…Sheesh, I gotta get that Mic post out of my head… :-) Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.12/1203 - Release Date: 12/30/2007 11:27 AM
Re: [IceHorses] Cavallo Article / FEIF's answer
Good point, Mic! It's been hard, over the years, to try to come up with a descriptive name for whatever type of riding it is. German Icelandic Traditional Style. GITS. Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Re: [IceHorses] Cavallo Article / FEIF's answer
On Dec 31, 2007, at 10:42 AM, Mic Rushen wrote: On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 11:35:07 -0500, you wrote: I’m sure there was a noseband, and I think it was dropped – maybe Mic has the picture. Here she is. Pics by John Freeman. It's a flash. Mic What the h--- is that leather piece going through the slit in the cheek piece right above the bar of the bit?! Geeze! That slit in the cheek pieces is to attach a gamarrilla (http://www.peruviantack.com/headgear.html) -- a plain leather or hinged metal piece that runs OVER the nose and limits how much pressure the bit can put on the bars of the mouth (I use a gamarilla when trail riding where a stumble or something might cause me to jerk on the bit, and when someone whose hands might be heavy is riding my horse. The problem isn't the Peruvian bit, but rather the idiot human who put it on! Lynn Kinsky, Santa Ynez, CA http://www.silcom.com/~lkinsky/
Re: [IceHorses] Cavallo Article / FEIF's answer
On Dec 31, 2007 2:42 PM, Mic Rushen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here she is. Pics by John Freeman. It's a flash. OMG! I consider myself a newbie to horses and even I wouldn't be so, so, stupid?! to tie a flash that tight!!! V
