Re: [IceHorses] Natural Tolter
> Thanks Penny, I do have another Icy he is in training and was supposed to be > home by now but he got a cold, then it rained and he is not ready to come > home yet. So she is bringing me a couple of her horses to visit. What do you > have for sale? Sylvia > there is a really REALLY nice icey for sale on dreamhorse, his name is Dagur. He doesnt like to ride out alone much (how many do...) but is really a nice horse i think! Janice -- yipie tie yie yo
Re: [IceHorses] Natural Tolter
In a message dated 12/22/2007 9:02:05 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Thanks Penny, I do have another Icy he is in training and was supposed to be home by now but he got a cold, then it rained and he is not ready to come home yet. So she is bringing me a couple of her horses to visit. What do you have for sale? Sylvia **See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop000304)
Re: [IceHorses] Natural Tolter
> Get another icy??. > > How many times have we heard that? Sylvia...you're heading down a > slippery slope. I think that another Icy is a terrific idea. All horses need the companionship of their own species. It just so happens I have a couple of very nice Icelandics for sale ;-) Penny
Re: [IceHorses] Natural Tolter
On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 07:51:37 -0800, you wrote: >I'm not sure whether it is because horses have a natural affinity for goats >or merely because wether goats are cheaply purchased. I think a horse and a goat will bond if they have no choice of fieldmate, but given one of their own species, both horse and goat would choose that over each other. Some horses really don't like goats (or other smaller animals like dogs, cats, sheep etc) and they are plenty big enough to cause injury, even fatal injury... : ( Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- "Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes"
Re: [IceHorses] Natural Tolter
In a message dated 12/22/2007 7:52:04 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) I am borrowing two horses today. A three year old sister to my gelding and a mini mare. They were supposed to be here before she arrived but the truck broke down that hauls the trailer for my trainer. If I had known I could have gone and gotten them myself. Thanks for the info. Sylvia **See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop000304)
Re: [IceHorses] Natural Tolter
An old race track trick is to give a horse a goat. Didn't Seabiscuit toss his pet goat over a stall door? Hunter shares his dinner with a goat and Twist and Yrsa have several neighbor goats who come down and hang out with them, fencing not being much of an obstacle for goats. I'm not sure whether it is because horses have a natural affinity for goats or merely because wether goats are cheaply purchased. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] Natural Tolter
In a message dated 12/21/2007 9:04:59 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) Thank you, I thought I had gone into pony hell, when I call her she runs straight at me like she is going to mow me down, oh what a fright. She does turn at the last second. I peeked out there this morning afraid of what I might find. She is calmly walking around the arena. That is a relief, I went down with the flash light in the middle of the night and made sure she was still in there and OK. Now we are having a cold wind and its really kicking up out there. Poor thing she brought the cold with her. Sylvia **See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop000304)
Re: [IceHorses] Natural Tolter
On 21/12/2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > No, she does not have another horse with her, there were suppose to be some > here but they didn't come for a visit. I know she is scared, terrified for a > fact. I thought about borrowing one from the neighbor. Maybe tomorrow I can > get another icy. Thanks, Sylvia Get another icy??. How many times have we heard that? Sylvia...you're heading down a slippery slope. Wanda
Re: [IceHorses] Natural Tolter
In a message dated 12/21/2007 7:22:17 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wri No, she does not have another horse with her, there were suppose to be some here but they didn't come for a visit. I know she is scared, terrified for a fact. I thought about borrowing one from the neighbor. Maybe tomorrow I can get another icy. Thanks, Sylvia **See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop000304)
Re: [IceHorses] Natural Tolter
>>>she just ran past me and tried to kick my head > off. I drug dog panels out to the arena and blocked the spots where it is not > a > stud panel type that she was going to thru. I took off the halter before she > hangs herself on something and tied everything down. I had a really easy time > with my colt and he was an angel from Canada. Never been touched ever and > came to me and was dead broke in three weeks. She is very upset. is this your little baby Sylvia?? She is full of beans then :) Bless her heart. One time at a boarding barn my husband was petting this little filly every day and she let him love on her etc. Then one day she kicked him in his uhmn, "lap" and let us just say he is not real quick to handle babies any more haha. I guess they can do a lot of damage with those little feet! My Nasi was nippy as a baby. I would read all these posts about everyones darling icies, how perfectly calm and angelic in temperament and all the while nasi would bite at me like a little goat, bust thru all the electric wire at the boarding barn and have furious stallions chasing him everywhere, would come galloping from the end of the pasture right at me just to see if he could scare me, would try and deliberately knock me down... I thought I had bought a rare icelandic demon. He still has a little demon twinkle in his eye but he never bites, is very calm and mannerly and is absolutely fearless. He seems to have a sense of humor tho. maybe its me. When my daughter was two I thought she would end up in san quentin but she's an accomplished law abiding professional now :) Janice-- yipie tie yie yo
Re: [IceHorses] Natural Tolter
>>> Oh God I hope that is so, she just ran past me and tried to kick my head off. Poor baby must be frantic being away from home the first time. Is she settling down yet? Does she have another horse in with her? Don't get yourself hurt. Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] Natural Tolter
what was the shot combination exactly? I know you said west nile... but what was the other part? thats scarey. Janice -- yipie tie yie yo
Re: [IceHorses] Natural Tolter
i dont think a horse has to be ridden a certain way, english or western, just because of breed. I guess you would say I ride english because I like to direct rein and I like a saddle with no horn, but when I trail ride after a while I will relax and neck rein. Then when the horse gaits, even trots, I direct rein again. But I have never been formally trained to ride and just ride the way I ride, the saddle is just that I have a preference for no horn, the direct reining is just that I have found my horses gait better when i sit a certain way and direct rein. altho I ordinarily ride with not much rein contact even when they gait. anyway :) Janice-- yipie tie yie yo
RE: [IceHorses] Natural Tolter
>>> I mentioned different ridign styles because Peruvian Horses are ridden more Western style and Icelandics seem to be ridden English with a lot more contact on the bit. Not here! We always ride with a casual rein, minimal contact. A well-gaited horse doesn't need contact in order to gait. And that's certainly not anything specific to any breed. I'm a pleasure/trail rider, but my formal lessons have been in classical "English" riding - hunter lessons first, then some light dressage. Then I stumbled into natural horsemanship, which isn't really tied to any defined discipline, but is more about gentle, easy-going horsemanship built around a solid partnership with the horse. I can use these skills with an Icelandic just as easily as with any breed - and we have a blast. >>> The teachers are Icelandic so I imagine it will be differen than taking lessons from a Peruvian trainer Maybe I am wrong. I don't have a lot of experience either way. I don't know them, but having started riding when my daughter was eight, I would advise you to, first and foremost, pick a GOOD trainer for your daughter, someone who will teach her to value and respect her horse, to ride safely, and with good equitation. Good equitation is good equitation, and good horsemanship is good horsemanship. Period. Whatever the breed. I can't brag enough on the trainer we eventually found to work with my daughter and her Arab...and who still helps us with our Icelandic's. She always made Emily think of thing from the horse's viewpoint, not as some ATV. A good trainer is a good trainer. (The trainer we work with is American - and very good with Icelandics...and Arabs..and TWH...and QH...!) Riding CAN be a positive social outlet for kids (or it can be a competitive, snooty fiasco, where no one has fun, least of all the horses...) so I'd try to find her a trainer/instructor who will 1) teach her good horsemanship and respect for the animals, and 2) to ride in a way that she can relate to other kids. Unfortunately, Icelandic style riding is rather obscure in the USA, and may set her up for ridicule with her peers. It may not be nice, but kids can be awfully cliquish. It's quite possible to ride an Icelandic horse in a good, positive way - I don't think so many people are snobbish against Icelandic's, but the traditional, show-type riding style is definitely not "mainstream" horsemanship in the USA...to put it tactfully! Karen Karen Thomas Wingate, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.17.5/1190 - Release Date: 12/19/2007 7:37 PM
RE: [IceHorses] Natural Tolter
--- Karen Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > First of all, welcome to the list, Maria. WHAT Is YOUR definition of > "tolt"? Hi Karen,. Thank you for the welcome. I guess I will have to put it into Peruvian terms since that is all I know. To me a horse with good gait has a wide "thread." Which means they can maintain the gait ( 4 beat lateral with 3 foot support) in all range of speeds from slow to fast. The best Peruvians will choose to gait at liberty rather than trot but they will also trot and canter. Good timing is also important to a smooth ride. So, I guess to answer your question I would say a horse that is smooth, with good timing and with a wide range of speed within the gait. I mentioned different ridign styles because Peruvian Horses are ridden more Western style and Icelandics seem to be ridden English with a lot more contact on the bit. Valhalla is a training barn for Icelandics in Lake View Terrace. The teachers are Icelandic so I imagine it will be differen than taking lessons from a Peruvian trainer Maybe I am wrong. I don't have a lot of experience either way. Thanks for all the info. I really want to learn as muc as I can. Maria Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Re: [IceHorses] Natural Tolter
In a message dated 12/21/2007 3:25:55 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Maria, I am just a trail rider for fourty years now, so I don't think I have a style not even western or English. I have had an endurance saddle for years and liked it better than western or English and hated Australian saddles. Cannot post in the tight little things. I just enjoy the easy gaits and what ever they do natural is fine with me as long as it is comfortable. My Paso mare was wonderful but she was so unsound when I did trail with her she suffered for a week. My gelding that died was not as smooth as she was but he was sound till he died. I am so careful with shots, my vet said Spanish horses don't do shots well and he was right. He also was not the one that gave the shots. Sylvia **See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop000304)
Re: [IceHorses] Natural Tolter
In a message dated 12/21/2007 2:56:25 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) Oh God I hope that is so, she just ran past me and tried to kick my head off. I drug dog panels out to the arena and blocked the spots where it is not a stud panel type that she was going to thru. I took off the halter before she hangs herself on something and tied everything down. I had a really easy time with my colt and he was an angel from Canada. Never been touched ever and came to me and was dead broke in three weeks. She is very upset. Sylvia **See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop000304)
RE: [IceHorses] Natural Tolter
First of all, welcome to the list, Maria. I've been thinking about your question about how to determine if a horse is a "natural tolter" and maybe we should back up a bit. What is YOUR definition of "tolt"? Some people have WAY different definitions of the term. In my experience, MOST Icelandic's are naturally gaited...most, but not all. Icelandic's pretty much do the same range of gaits as any other gaited horse breed, but that will vary a lot from individual to individual. Some Icelandic's naturally foxtrot, some run walk, some saddle rack, some are very pacey, and some are three gaited (as in walk/trot and canter.) Some can do many of these gaits, while others have only a narrow range of gaits they can comfortably do. Ironically, I think VERY FEW (almost zero) Icelandics truly do a "natural tolt" at liberty if you mean the single-foot support show gait you usually see in pictures. Tolt is another word for rack, and I DO think that the saddle-rack (the two-foot-three-foot support variation) is fairly common in the breed. I've had gaited horses for almost 20 years, and I live in NC, where gaited horses are common. I love Icelandics better than any breed I've ever met (and I've met a lot and owned several breeds), but what make Icelandic's unique is not their gaits. Gaits are gaits, no matter what some people may try to tell you. Ironically, I see more running walk, saddle rack and foxtrot in this breed than I do "tolt". I am not apologizing either - I love all the soft gaits, and personally, my two favorites are foxtrot and running - and I'm thankful that both are plentiful in this breed. Both my 8 year-old daughter and I are going to begin lessons at Valhalla in January. The riding styles are completely different. Was it hard for you to adjust? Even though I've been thinking about your initial question since I first read it, this last statement really rang a bell. Please remember that you can ride an Icelandic any way that you want. Riding "styles" are a human contrivance. Horses can care less - they simply want to do what's fun and easy for them, and they basically want to get along with their humans. I don't know where Valhalla is - maybe you can tell us more...? But, if you take lessons somewhere where a "unique style" is important, the chances are slim that you will be able to easily determine what the horse's real-honest-to-God natural gaits really are. "Styles" are not natural to any horse, and they can unfortunately hide a lot of the natural tendencies and talents of the horse - while mimicking "talents" the horse may not really have. Before you start taking lessons in any "style", it would be good for you to sit down and think about what's important to YOU in a horse. Do you want to trail ride? Do you want a horse that a kid could also enjoy and maybe do some jumping with? Do you just want a horse to play around with in your backyard with, maybe dabbling in many different sports? Are you interested in natural horsemanship? All of these will come into play. As far as the subject of gaits alone, do you have Lee Ziegler's book, Easy-Gaited Horses? It's the best compilation of gait information you'll find anywhere. The woman and her father studied the biomechanics of gaits for 40-ish years before her death a couple of years ago. As I said before, gaits are gaits, so you don't need a "special" Icelandic book to learn about gaits. Again, welcome! Karen Karen Thomas Wingate, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.17.5/1190 - Release Date: 12/19/2007 7:37 PM
Re: [IceHorses] Natural Tolter
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Switch from Paso to Icelandic is size and > temperament. > from them also. I should > have put him down the first day. It was awful. > Sylvia > I am so sorry to hear that Sylvia. That must have been awful. I did the same thing with my Beagle. I put her through MRI, back surgery (she was in a lot of pain) only to have to euthanize her in the end. I guess we feel we have to at least give them a chance. Though in hindsight, I should have put her down right away. My Peruvian mare is just 14.1 hands but I guess most Peruvians are a bit bigger. I am starting out like you did with an unsound one. They can be "high maintanence." Both my 8 year-old daughter and I are going to begin lessons at Valhalla in January. The riding styles are completely different. Was it hard for you to adjust? Maria Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
Re: [IceHorses] Natural Tolter
Merry Christmas, Sylvia. We need to see pictures, when she's settled in. Don't worry about her being a little wild. She's just had a really big adventure. I bought a Welsh cob filly at her birth and had her shipped here when she was weaned at five months. You can't get a big rig turned around in here, so I met the transport at the parking of a little country store about a mile from here. I was waiting there and could hear her squealing as the truck approached. I asked the driver if that was mine, and he said "Yup. She's been doing that for 100 miles." She had been shipped with another baby from the same farm and pretty much fell apart when they unloaded the other foal. She settled down really quickly and went on to be a nice driving horse. Nancvy
Re: [IceHorses] Natural Tolter
In a message dated 12/21/2007 1:37:42 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) Switch from Paso to Icelandic is size and temperament. My gelding was my second horse of that breed. My mare was not sound so I bought him. When they gave him the shots he got really weird and went down in the rear and then went crazy it took three days of treatment with fluids and we put him down. The spinal fluid we took after that said meningitis. So the combo of those shots caused a bad reaction on him, other horses have died from them also. I should have put him down the first day. It was awful. Sylvia **See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop000304)
Re: [IceHorses] Natural Tolter
In a message dated 12/21/2007 1:36:09 PM Pacific Standard Time, xuxawill I did have his growth plates checked and they were not closed at four. That is a good clue they are not full grown. They need time to finish growing. If she was on pasture, where and what was she eating? My Paso colt came off a pasture in Santa Rosa at 18 months, wild as a March hare and mostly never got over that wild tendency I gelded him at four. He grew right before my eyes after that and it was weird he got so tall. He was so beautiful. I have a funny for everyone, the pony on the Verizon comercial. Well she moved here. My filly came an hour ago and is wild. She tried to get out of the arena so we moved her to the stud pens, and wants to bite me big time. Nip nip nip.. I will let her settle in before I get on her about this. She is my Christmas present by the way. Sylvia **See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop000304)
Re: [IceHorses] Natural Tolter
On 21/12/2007, Xuxa'smom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Wanda, > > Thanks for the great advice! So I really want to watch the horse gait at > liberty then. Let me seeif I were looking for a horse, I'd want to see it do some nice running walkor some of the 'soft' gaits. I wouldn't want to see any paciness at liberty. I'd want my horse to have a good trot as well. A nice trot will help to keep their back healthy between the gaiting parts... Somewhere I have a video of my daughter and I starting her gelding last winter. He slid into a nice 'gait' almost immediately. He was young and green but you could still tell there was lots of gait in there just waiting to bubble out. Wanda
Re: [IceHorses] Natural Tolter
On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 13:16:08 -0800 (PST), you wrote: >I think the advice about giving her time off is very >good It will take much longer for the affected joints to fuse if you give her time off. Light, daily exercise (say 20 minutes walk, maybe a little gait/trot/whatever if she's comfortable, no lunging or reallly tight circles) with painkillers if necessary is what really works. all the best Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- "Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes"
Re: [IceHorses] Natural Tolter
[moderator's note: please use email list netiquette when posting to the list, by deleting the previous post from the bottom, or only quoting a line from the previous post and putting your response below that quote; and using plain text format; thanks] Hi Wanda, Thanks for the great advice! So I really want to watch the horse gait at liberty then. Yes, Peruvians are still lunged around that pole. Mine had the foreshortened stride before I got her but as her training progressed it got better and then worse. Your Peruvian actually died from the vaccination? I never heard of that before what happened? I am wondering why you switched from Peruvians to Icelandics? Thanks again. Maria
Re: [IceHorses] Natural Tolter
. > I agree with Mic and this > horse could be fine next year. > If you don't want to wait you can send her to me, > hahahaha. Sylvia > Hi Sylvia, Thank you for sharing your experiences. Wow! FIfteen hands is big for a Peruvian. I think the advice about giving her time off is very good. They start these horses at 3. I waited until she was almost 4. But the bone scan showed her growth plates were still open so she is still growing. I have put almost 8 months of training on her. I hope she doesn't forget completely. BTW, why did you switch to an Icelandic. Just curious because that is what I am doing. Maria
Re: [IceHorses] Natural Tolter
Hi Mic, The vet did not x-ray during the pre-purchase. It was out of state so I was not there but it was just a physical exam. In hidnsight, she had the symptoms when I bought her. I just thought she needed conditioning and was prefering her right side over her left. I wish I could say it was all bad luck but a lot of it was my ignorance. I do love her though. She is so sweet. I was able to ride her on trail after only being in bosal one month, She has never spooked ( other than to take a double step on a few occasions) . She will come up to me and put her head on my shoulder and just stand there. I really hope I can help her. Regardless, she is my responsibility, and she will have a good life with us for however long she lives. Maria
Re: [IceHorses] Natural Tolter
On 21/12/2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I was into Peruvian Paso horses until my horse died from the West Nile virus > shots. If I remember right they are circled in a tiny area around a pole to > make them gait. Do they still do this practice? That was my thought, if a horse was fine going into training...and then something happened during that time, I would begin to question the type of training used. Too much too soon? Anyway, if you're looking for a naturally gaited horse, you want to buy a horse that gaits without 25 lbs of pressure on the reins. You want to see him/her very relaxed while they're gaiting... You want to buy a horse that's barefoot, then you know that the horse you're buying has not been 'balanced' by some inventive farrier. Some farms shoe for protection, but I know a few shoe to improve gait. How many times have we heard that a horse doesn't tolt after he has his shoes removed? Wanda Maybe she needs time to > heal and get stronger before she trains for that type of gait. If she was not > trained this way for get what I said about the pole but maybe she is just not > ready to ride. I didn't get my horse ready to ride until he was way past four > because he was still growing. My horse was big and looked Andalusian not Paso > over 15 hh. The cycle hock is a problem in its self, my horse was not. But > he also did not have a huge amount of turmino either, so perfect for trail. I > am sorry you are having this problem with your mare. I agree with Mic and this > horse could be fine next year. > If you don't want to wait you can send her to me, hahahaha. Sylvia > > > > > > **See AOL's top rated recipes > (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop000304) > > > IceHorses Community for Photos and Videos: http://kickapps.com/icehorses > > "The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, > contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and > unrealistic." > > "All truth passes through three stages. > First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. > Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer > > > [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com > [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com > [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo > [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > -- Wanda Saskatchewan Canada
Re: [IceHorses] Natural Tolter
In a message dated 12/21/2007 8:28:07 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) . I was into Peruvian Paso horses until my horse died from the West Nile virus shots. If I remember right they are circled in a tiny area around a pole to make them gait. Do they still do this practice? Maybe she needs time to heal and get stronger before she trains for that type of gait. If she was not trained this way for get what I said about the pole but maybe she is just not ready to ride. I didn't get my horse ready to ride until he was way past four because he was still growing. My horse was big and looked Andalusian not Paso over 15 hh. The cycle hock is a problem in its self, my horse was not. But he also did not have a huge amount of turmino either, so perfect for trail. I am sorry you are having this problem with your mare. I agree with Mic and this horse could be fine next year. If you don't want to wait you can send her to me, hahahaha. Sylvia **See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop000304)
Re: [IceHorses] Natural Tolter
On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 07:21:41 -0800 (PST), you wrote: >my mare's x-rays were normal If the x-rays were normal (and assuming they x-rayed the joints from all the angles they needed to, and the vet was used to interpreting x-rays) then it sounds like you just got really unlucky and your mare didn't have spavin at the time of the x-rays, but then developed it. Bummer. Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- "Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes"
Re: [IceHorses] Natural Tolter
Thank you for the advice, Michelle, I am not sure which joints are involved. I hope they will fuse over time as you say. That would be wonderful. The reason I did not get an Icelandic at first was because of the spavin. I decided to take a chance with DSLD. When I get an Icelandic, I will definately test for spavin. If it is blind or occult spavin like my mare has, I wonder how one would tell? My horse passed the first vet check. She must have passed a flex test or the vet is clueless and did not even do one. Without spending thousands on pre-purchase tests, how can one be sure? Do ultrasounds show spavin? As I said, my mare's x-rays were normal/ Maria Moderator's note: please set your computer to plain text and delete the message you are replying to except for two or three relevent lines. Then put your reply BELOW the text you have left. Thank you!
Re: [IceHorses] Natural Tolter
Hi Wanda, Thank you for the welcome. Yes, it was quite a shock. I was rather stupid just having gotten back into horses over the last 2 years. She had this"hitch" before I bought her. I just thought she preferred her right side over her left and with training it would all work out. She passed the vet check and everything. She had been in pasture all her life and did not begin any training until I brought her to California and started her when she was 3.5 years old. She is fine at the walk It is when she begins to gait that she gets the the foreshortened stride on her left side. It seemed to get better with conditioning and then last month it got worse. I felt as if I was riding a Clydesdale. Took her to the vet. A bone scan revealed "hot spots" on her left hock, front feet and to a lesser extent, her left stifle. Her x-rays were normal. When the vet injected anesthetic into her left hock her gait improved significantly. She is sickle hocked which is seen in Peruvians though not a good thing for soundness. I can email you a photo. I appreciate your sharing your thoughts about my question. Thank you Maria - Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
Re: [IceHorses] Natural Tolter
On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 17:20:05 -0600, you wrote: >A four year old with spavin? My...that's awfully >young to have spavin. If it's in the lower-mobility joints and you can keep her moving (possibly with medication if it hurts her to move) with at least 20 minutes a day of exercise, you may well find it will fuse really quickly - she could be sound this time next year, and then lead a useful life as a normal riding horse. I've had that happen with one of mine and know of several others. Good luck with her. Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- "Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes"
Re: [IceHorses] Natural Tolter
Hi Raven, Thank you for the welcome. Yes it is sad, My mare had a "hitch" in her gait before I bought her. The breeder and vet said she was fine. I just thought she needed conditioning as some horses can prefer one side over the other. She would occasionally take a short stride with her left hind. She had been in pasture and never trained at all. One year later after six months in training she began to get worse. So the vet dx's her with spavin (2k worth of tests) It was an expensive lesson. Yes Peruvians are smooth. I love my mare she is very sweet. I just remember every time I road an Icelandic I always had a big smile on my face. Not the same with my Peruvian. Please tell me about your horse. Maria
Re: [IceHorses] Natural Tolter
Welcome Maria ! Where are you located? I'm sorry to hear that your mare has spavin, she is so young. I love riding PP, they are so smooth. Raven Lucy & Molly, the Girl Doggies Huginn & Dixie Chick, the Back Behind the Barn Ponies Maggie Rose, the cat who makes me sneeze Respect ALL Earthlings. We are all animals of this planet. We are all creatures.
Re: [IceHorses] Natural Tolter
Hi Maria, Welcome. A four year old with spavin? My...that's awfully young to have spavin. What conformational issues do you think contributed to her getting spavin? Is it bad enough that it's already affecting her movement? What type of spavin is it? Meanwhile I'll think about your other question about how to find a horse with lots of natural gait and write down my thoughts in a bit... Wanda
RE: [IceHorses] Natural Tolter
>>> I was thinking it's ironic that they compare the gait to the Saddlebred, which the Saddlebred people admit is not natural at all. That's just downright sad to me... And why do they try to state so many things on that "gait" page as "similar to" or "not like" - why don't they just say what each gait IS or ISN'T, not what it's like or unlike... It gives me the feeling that they don't know what the breed is. It's also sad that the two breeds that they chose to be "like" are Thoroughbreds and Saddlebreds. Of all the breeds of horses, the two breeds I've never been attracted to, those are the two. That just misses the mark to me. I like these horses because they are so cold and sensible, yet I think of TB and SB's as two of the hottest breeds I know. Such a pity...I have no interest in hot race horses, nor do I have any interest in high-stepping show horses. Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [IceHorses] Natural Tolter
--- Karen Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>> This term is sometimes used to refer to a horse > whose favorite gait is > tolt. This horse might be more difficult to get into > trot and/or canter (the > Icelandic Horse is truly four and five-gaited and a > good trot and canter are > prized), and may not have high leg action desired in > a competition horse, > but might be a good choice for a pleasure rider who > wants a horse that is > very easy to get, and keep, in tolt." > > Well, folks, the path to denial has opened up a > whole new Interstate > Highway. They say that the "tolt" is a natural > gait...so why the heck do we > see virtually no Icelandics doing a single-foot tolt > without special > shoeing, boots and a rider with a death grip on the > reins...? Right, they say it is natural and the horses are born with it, but a "natural tolter" is not the most desireable because they might not have trot and canter, these people make no sense, how can they really have it both ways, it's natural to the horse or not, and a lot of times it isn't. I was told this same exact thing when I was exposed to some of these people. I was told a "natural tolter" might not have the leg action and as good of a tolt as a trotty horse. There might be something to it in getting those high artificial gaits, like the Saddlebred, but as a goal, not good. I didn't see that natural gait was in any of the breeding goals, that's kind of weird to me. That is the major thing that makes this pony really unique to me, if they don't have that, how about a Fjord?, they seem like nice horses/ponies. Kim
RE: [IceHorses] Natural Tolter
--- Karen Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > This is the four-beat, lateral gait of the > Icelandic Horse, which is > very comfortable to ride. It is sometimes compared > to the rack of the > American Saddlebred, > > NO! Wait, this is new. When did they change this? > I *think* they may have just updated the site, I was on it a few days ago and the whole thing looked different, but I didn't look at the gait definitions then, so I'm not positive. I was thinking it's ironic that they compare the gait to the Saddlebred, which the Saddlebred people admit is not natural at all. I also think it is really a myth that a naturally gaited horse does not, or cannot have a trot and canter. That is ridiculous. Kim
RE: [IceHorses] Natural Tolter
This is the four-beat, lateral gait of the Icelandic Horse, which is very comfortable to ride. It is sometimes compared to the rack of the American Saddlebred, NO! Wait, this is new. When did they change this? It wasn't so long ago - a few months - that it said that it was "similar to the gait of the TWH" or something very similar. So...the USIHC has just changed the definition of the gait? I have to admit, when I first read that older definition (and boy was I naïve back in those days - 5-ish years ago) I noticed the word "similar" and thought that was cool. Now this was before I encountered some of the "biddies" as Anneliese so tactfully called them, some of whom have insisted that Icelandics don't foxtrot, whatever. But as a young, naïve 40-something-year-old, I so gullibly took the "similar" to mean that no one was going to sweat the minor differences between a running walk, rack, saddle rack etc. and that this breed was more open to various gaits. Oh, man, had I just fallen off the turnip truck then or what?!!! An incorrect tolt is closer to two-beat than four-beat is the "Pig's Pace" (similar to the lateral gait sometimes seen in gaited breeds which rely on shoeing and training). OH MY GAWD! Of all the sensibly named, well-thought out gait definitions we have at our disposal now, some bozos have actually decided to DEFINE piggy pace - and not very clearly, and not in any way that any of us have heard it used, where it's an awful, punishing slow pace - close to pure pace. And what on earth does that mean - "similar to the lateral gait sometimes seen in gaited breeds which rely on shoeing and training" - now tell me, has ANYONE ever heard the term "piggy pace" used with another breed? I never have. That's an Icelandic-only term...so why the heck are they throwing it back to "other breeds" who require shoes and training... It's an Icelandic term, so that must mean that some Icelandic's must need shoes and training, right? There was NO reason to bring other breeds into that term. I suppose somehow the shoeing practices of the TWH made those isolated Icelandic farmers coin that phrase in past decades/centuries? Oh my...that's kind of pathetic. This is a step backwards. It's funny in a way, but it's ludicrous. We have definitions for gaits that are generally accepted so why not use them. But, one thing I find hysterically funny. I've rarely heard the term "Pig's Pace." I've heard it a few times, but almost always it's been called "piggy pace", said in some snarling, disparaging one, like one might say, "Yeah, and your mother wears combat boots!" But, I guess "Pig's Pace" is the FORMAL name for this gait, huh? It just wouldn't be "proper" to call it "piggy pace" now would it?!!! Oh my gosh, I'm rolling in the floor over a "proper" name for an insulting term with no specific definition. (A few of you will recognize why I use the word "proper", since that was always the buzzword of a former list antagonist...) >>> It's just interesting. I haven't read their definitions in a long time. I remember reading this a long time ago, it was similar, but I don't think it used to include many soft gaits in tolt. I remember thinking it didn't actually offer much guidance for me, not knowing about gaits and trying to figure this out. You're right, Kim, this is new, almost certainly less than a year old. And you're also right, the definitions were always vague, with no help in determining the specifics of gait. Karen Thomas, NC -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.10/624 - Release Date: 1/12/2007 2:04 PM
RE: [IceHorses] Natural Tolter
>>> This term is sometimes used to refer to a horse whose favorite gait is tolt. This horse might be more difficult to get into trot and/or canter (the Icelandic Horse is truly four and five-gaited and a good trot and canter are prized), and may not have high leg action desired in a competition horse, but might be a good choice for a pleasure rider who wants a horse that is very easy to get, and keep, in tolt." Well, folks, the path to denial has opened up a whole new Interstate Highway. They say that the "tolt" is a natural gait...so why the heck do we see virtually no Icelandics doing a single-foot tolt without special shoeing, boots and a rider with a death grip on the reins...? Why are shoes required in "breeding evaluations" and why do evaluations also allow lift-enhancing boots? And LIFT? How many videos of horses moving in Iceland show any degree of knee action - the kind where the foot goes well above the horizontal as we see in shows...? This organization has long seemed to try to be exclusive, and not available to the masses. I guess I might continue my Interstate analogy by noting that this Interstate is definitely "limited access." Karen Thomas, NC - I'm not believing this -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.10/624 - Release Date: 1/12/2007 2:04 PM
Re: [IceHorses] Natural Tolter
--- Kim Morton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Courtesy of the USIHC, what do you think about this > definition? > > http://www.icelandics.org/checklist.html#naturaltolter > This part is pretty good: "Tolt This is the four-beat, lateral gait of the Icelandic Horse, which is very comfortable to ride. It is sometimes compared to the rack of the American Saddlebred, but there is a lot of variation in this gait, from horses which move somewhat like a Paso Fino to ones which tolt similar to the running walk of the Tennessee Walking Horse. The tolt is a natural gait, meaning that the horse is born with the ability to perform the gait (although it is best brought out by good training and riding), and it doesn't require the use of manipulative training devices, extreme shoeing, etc. A four-gaited horse will possess the tolt, in addition to the walk, trot and canter. An incorrect tolt is closer to two-beat than four-beat is the "Pig's Pace" (similar to the lateral gait sometimes seen in gaited breeds which rely on shoeing and training). A tolt/canter combination, sometimes seen in young, untrained horses, or in horses which mix their gaits, is the "Valhopp." Neither of these gaits are desirable, and they can be uncomfortable for the rider" It's just interesting. I haven't read their definitions in a long time. I remember reading this a long time ago, it was similar, but I don't think it used to include many soft gaits in tolt. I remember thinking it didn't actually offer much guidance for me, not knowing about gaits and trying to figure this out. Kim
