Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

[Roshan]

--- Kenneth Gonsalves  wrote:

> frankly i would be happier if it remained a 'north
> event'. The  
> strength of the foss movement in India is in the
> regions. There is  
> never going to be an all-india foss movement/event.
> I feel that in  
> each region one or more regional events come up
> focussing on that  
> region and getting active participation from that
> region. The level  
> of the event will be lower as there will be more
> newbies and  
> freshers. What is happening now is that all events
> are 'all india'  
> events and we find the same people in each - often
> making the same  
> speech. The biggest crowd of speakers in foss.in,
> and the other three  
> events having subsets of this crowd. (note, this is
> my personal  
> opinion and not that of nrc-foss). So I personally
> would be happier  
> if freedel remained freedel.

I agree with views expressed in the above article.
However, the name freed.in conveys "Freedom has been
achieved" - according to me. 

--
FSF of India Associate Fellow - http://www.gnu.org.in
ubunturos @ freenode


  Unlimited freedom, unlimited storage. Get it now, on 
http://help.yahoo.com/l/in/yahoo/mail/yahoomail/tools/tools-08.html/

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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

[Kenneth Gonsalves]

On 07-Aug-07, at 2:10 PM, Linux Lingam wrote:

> ah see, this is it.
> a) tut! tut! kenneth, the event is no longer called freedel. it is
> called freed.in.
> freed.in is not a 'north event' it is a nation-wide event, with
> participation from across india and even beyond our borders.

frankly i would be happier if it remained a 'north event'. The  
strength of the foss movement in India is in the regions. There is  
never going to be an all-india foss movement/event. I feel that in  
each region one or more regional events come up focussing on that  
region and getting active participation from that region. The level  
of the event will be lower as there will be more newbies and  
freshers. What is happening now is that all events are 'all india'  
events and we find the same people in each - often making the same  
speech. The biggest crowd of speakers in foss.in, and the other three  
events having subsets of this crowd. (note, this is my personal  
opinion and not that of nrc-foss). So I personally would be happier  
if freedel remained freedel.


-- 
regards

Kenneth Gonsalves
Associate, NRC-FOSS
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/




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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

[Linux Lingam]

> >
> > a) hope you're coming to freed.in?
>
> would love to - but i am a libran cusp, so will not be able to make
> it. But we will be sending a team

hey! we'll celebrate your GNU/Birthday here in delhi, would be fun to
hang out with you and celebrate. how many years since you've gone gpl?


> >
> > b) hope you've pasted and promoted the banner on your site(s)?
>
> no - we dont have a reporter in the North, if anyone up there is
> interested, we will give them access to the site so that full
> reportage on freedel as well as other events in the region.


ah see, this is it.
a) tut! tut! kenneth, the event is no longer called freedel. it is
called freed.in.
freed.in is not a 'north event' it is a nation-wide event, with
participation from across india and even beyond our borders. stay
tuned for announcements from freed.in on our first confirmations of
speakers

b) in fact kenneth, you could help by recommending speakers to us.
please check the site for suitable topics.


> http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/calendar/ (I see someone has publicised
> foss.in)

c) great show! please also add freed.in and if possible the button or
banner. thanks so much.

>
> >
> [snip]
> > how to backup terabytes of data
>

> nothing to share here as I dont have such needs. My home directory is
> under svn - and thats it. I dont have music, video or picture files -
> posterity is going to have a tough time writing my biography in the
> unlikely event of it ever desiring to do so
>

hehehe that's funny kenneth.

well you are aware of the FOSS community across india.
could you point out or refer others to this discussion who could contribute?
looking at the responses here and at emerging trends worldwide, i
guess we haven't yet figured out what's the best way to skin this cat.
don't want to start on a solution that turns out expensive later on,
or is rather quickly superseded by a better technology or solution.
backups and archiving is always a thoughtful decision.

:-)
niyam

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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

[Kenneth Gonsalves]

On 07-Aug-07, at 12:54 PM, Linux Lingam wrote:

> make that GNU/Hockey if you please.

ahh - correct spelling
>
> on a side note, kenneth:
>
> a) hope you're coming to freed.in?

would love to - but i am a libran cusp, so will not be able to make  
it. But we will be sending a team
>
> b) hope you've pasted and promoted the banner on your site(s)?

no - we dont have a reporter in the North, if anyone up there is  
interested, we will give them access to the site so that full  
reportage on freedel as well as other events in the region.

http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/calendar/ (I see someone has publicised  
foss.in)

>
> c) hope you have something to share regarding my current challenge on
> how to backup terabytes of data. do you have such needs? if so, what
> do you use?

nothing to share here as I dont have such needs. My home directory is  
under svn - and thats it. I dont have music, video or picture files -  
posterity is going to have a tough time writing my biography in the  
unlikely event of it ever desiring to do so


-- 
regards

Kenneth Gonsalves
Associate, NRC-FOSS
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/




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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

[Linux Lingam]

> Right.  Sending goons with hockey sticks around to Niyam's house right
> now to make him see the error of his ways and repent before it's too
> late.
>


make that GNU/Hockey if you please.

on a side note, kenneth:

a) hope you're coming to freed.in?

b) hope you've pasted and promoted the banner on your site(s)?

c) hope you have something to share regarding my current challenge on
how to backup terabytes of data. do you have such needs? if so, what
do you use?


:-)
n

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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

[Raj Mathur]

On Tuesday 07 August 2007 09:13, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
> On 07-Aug-07, at 8:20 AM, Raj Mathur wrote:
> > 1. Easily recognisable
>
> nope - it was rejected by all parties to the dispute as implying that
> linux is a gnu project
>
> > 2. Unambiguous
>
> yes - claims linux as a gnu project
>
> > 3. Clear as to import
>
> yes - see 1 and 2 above
>
> > 4. Sufficiently close to other terms (Linux, GNU/Linux) to be
> > considered
> > a derivate
>
> and sufficient to irritate both sides of the debate
>
> > 5. Not a redefinition of anything
>
> redefinition of *everything*
>
> > Further, Niyam gave clear reasons why he uses that term instead of
> > the full GNU/Linux, which convinced me, at least.  I for one don't
> > see any reason why he should not continue to use that term till it
> > falls out of
> > his ears if he so desires.
>
> what are these typographical problems? I could understand if it was
> '\' which has many meanings. In my opinon, leaving out the '/' is
> sheer laziness - and creates unnecessary trouble. Do not disturb a
> convention that has been settled for around 15 years.

Right.  Sending goons with hockey sticks around to Niyam's house right 
now to make him see the error of his ways and repent before it's too 
late.

Your friendly neighbourhood terminology Nazi,

-- Raju
-- 
Raj Mathur[EMAIL PROTECTED]  http://kandalaya.org/
 Freedom in Technology & Software || September 2007 || http://freed.in/
   GPG: 78D4 FC67 367F 40E2 0DD5  0FEF C968 D0EF CC68 D17F
  It is the mind that moves

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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

[Kenneth Gonsalves]

On 07-Aug-07, at 8:20 AM, Raj Mathur wrote:

> 1. Easily recognisable

nope - it was rejected by all parties to the dispute as implying that  
linux is a gnu project
>
> 2. Unambiguous

yes - claims linux as a gnu project
>
> 3. Clear as to import

yes - see 1 and 2 above
>
> 4. Sufficiently close to other terms (Linux, GNU/Linux) to be  
> considered
> a derivate

and sufficient to irritate both sides of the debate
>
> 5. Not a redefinition of anything

redefinition of *everything*
>
> Further, Niyam gave clear reasons why he uses that term instead of the
> full GNU/Linux, which convinced me, at least.  I for one don't see any
> reason why he should not continue to use that term till it falls  
> out of
> his ears if he so desires.

what are these typographical problems? I could understand if it was  
'\' which has many meanings. In my opinon, leaving out the '/' is  
sheer laziness - and creates unnecessary trouble. Do not disturb a  
convention that has been settled for around 15 years.


-- 
regards

Kenneth Gonsalves
Associate, NRC-FOSS
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/




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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

[Raj Mathur]

On Monday 06 August 2007 22:48, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 14:33:43 +0530, Ankur Rohatgi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
said:
> > On 06-08-07 10:01 AM, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
> >> did he agree? if not, you *are* starting a third front
> >>
> >>> GnuLinux = GNU/Linux
> >
> > All the talk about 'FREEDOM' and we are not free to call it what we
> > want ? If he has to 'sign off' on the name, isnt that hypocrisy ?
>
> Communication is about, umm, conveying meaning to the people
> you are conversing with.  If you go about redefining words to have
> special meanings known only to you, and contradict the meanings
> commonly given to that word; you are not really exercising freedom;
> you are just mis-communicating, and in the process, giving the
> audience a false impression of the status of the Linux kernel.

> Imagine if I have redefined all the words I use, and the
>  paragraph above means in normal English "Today is Monday".

I agree in general, but in this case the term that Niyam was using 
(Gnulinux) is:

1. Easily recognisable

2. Unambiguous

3. Clear as to import

4. Sufficiently close to other terms (Linux, GNU/Linux) to be considered 
a derivate

5. Not a redefinition of anything

Further, Niyam gave clear reasons why he uses that term instead of the 
full GNU/Linux, which convinced me, at least.  I for one don't see any 
reason why he should not continue to use that term till it falls out of 
his ears if he so desires.

Now can we move on to our regular earth-shattering universe-twisting 
time-and-space continuum discontinuing nature-of-reality disintegrating 
discussions?

Regards,

-- Raju
-- 
Raj Mathur[EMAIL PROTECTED]  http://kandalaya.org/
 Freedom in Technology & Software || September 2007 || http://freed.in/
   GPG: 78D4 FC67 367F 40E2 0DD5  0FEF C968 D0EF CC68 D17F
  It is the mind that moves

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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

[Manoj Srivastava]

On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 14:33:43 +0530, Ankur Rohatgi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: 

> On 06-08-07 10:01 AM, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
>> did he agree? if not, you *are* starting a third front
>>> GnuLinux = GNU/Linux
>> 

> All the talk about 'FREEDOM' and we are not free to call it what we
> want ? If he has to 'sign off' on the name, isnt that hypocrisy ?

Communication is about, umm, conveying meaning to the people you
 are conversing with.  If you go about redefining words to have special
 meanings known only to you, and contradict the meanings commonly given
 to that word; you are not really exercising freedom; you are just
 mis-communicating, and in the process, giving the audience a false
 impression of the status of the Linux kernel.

Imagine if I have redefined all the words I use, and the
 paragraph above means in normal English "Today is Monday".

manoj
-- 
It is best to avoid volcanos whenever possible.
Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B  924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C


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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

[Ankur Rohatgi]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 03-08-07 7:05 PM, Linux Lingam wrote:

> did i read that right?
> you mean 700GB, or 700TB, but surely not 700MB?

OOPS! , thats 700GB.

cheers.
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Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

[Ankur Rohatgi]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 06-08-07 10:01 AM, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:

> did he agree? if not, you *are* starting a third front
>> GnuLinux = GNU/Linux
> 

All the talk about 'FREEDOM' and we are not free to call it what we want
? If he has to 'sign off' on the name, isnt that hypocrisy ?

cheers.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFGtuPvbR7mO5apBYARAjTpAJwNTRyvzA139B9RTcCPO8SU2zR57gCfYKnU
FOBJvc3gpNl3+zLcmWlAASE=
=HGzS
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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

[Linux Lingam]

On 8/6/07, Vikram Ranade <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Haa,haa I would love to give a small talk on how cheap mass storage can be
> done with Linux and software raid (as I have done at home and work)
> .Count me
> in as long as the you don't expect a "guru" level of talk from me.
>
>  I am an enthu techie at best :-).
>
> Vikram
>

hi vikram
nice to hear your confirmation.
look forward to your talk at freed.in and hope you tug along some
equipment to demo as well. else, some snapshots with a digital camera
of unmoveable stuff would also do.
:-)
niyam

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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

[Kenneth Gonsalves]

On 06-Aug-07, at 9:13 AM, Linux Lingam wrote:

> there is no third.
> about 3 years ago, i pointed out richard stallman during his visit to
> delhi, that i use GnuLinux instead of GNU/linux as GNU/linux suffers
> from a typographic problem with certain typesetting engines during
> typesetting and hyphenation.

did he agree? if not, you *are* starting a third front
>
> GnuLinux = GNU/Linux

no. GnuLinux implies that Linux is a Gnu product. It is not.


-- 
regards

Kenneth Gonsalves
Associate, NRC-FOSS
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/




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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

[Parijat Garg]

Hey Guys,

   Any particular reason for freed.in to be on friday-saturday instead
of saturday-sunday? I'd miss the first day :(

Parijat

On 8/6/07, Sudev Barar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 06/08/07, Vikram Ranade <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Haa,haa I would love to give a small talk on how cheap mass storage can be
> > done with Linux and software raid (as I have done at home and work)
> > .Count me
> > in as long as the you don't expect a "guru" level of talk from me.
> >
> >  I am an enthu techie at best :-).
>
> Nice to hear you Vikram. Quickly register yourself for tals at
> http://freed.in Would be interesting.
> --
> Regards,
> Sudev Barar
>
> See you at 'Freed.in - freedom in technology & software' - India's
> leading free and open source community event. 28- 29 September 2007,
> New Delhi. Entry free, on first come basis. Register at
> http://Freed.in
>
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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

[Sudev Barar]

On 06/08/07, Vikram Ranade <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Haa,haa I would love to give a small talk on how cheap mass storage can be
> done with Linux and software raid (as I have done at home and work)
> .Count me
> in as long as the you don't expect a "guru" level of talk from me.
>
>  I am an enthu techie at best :-).

Nice to hear you Vikram. Quickly register yourself for tals at
http://freed.in Would be interesting.
-- 
Regards,
Sudev Barar

See you at 'Freed.in - freedom in technology & software' - India's
leading free and open source community event. 28- 29 September 2007,
New Delhi. Entry free, on first come basis. Register at
http://Freed.in

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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

[Vikram Ranade]

Haa,haa I would love to give a small talk on how cheap mass storage can be
done with Linux and software raid (as I have done at home and work) 
.Count me
in as long as the you don't expect a "guru" level of talk from me.

 I am an enthu techie at best :-).

Vikram

Kishore Bhargava wrote:
>
> With over 2TB of space at home, you just volunteered to give a talk at 
> freed.in ;-)
>
> Please, please, please, Vikram go and register a talk on backup and 
> backup solutions. There are actually several really cool solutions with 
> large volume managers like Openfiler and many of the rsync based 
> thingys. Would be a neat talk.
>
> Cheers...Kishore
>   

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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

[Linux Lingam]

On 8/6/07, Kenneth Gonsalves <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On 06-Aug-07, at 1:42 AM, Linux Lingam wrote:
>
> > has anyone hacked this to work with gnulinux
>
> there are two camps - Linux and GNU/Linux - thats enough, please dont
> make a third front
>

there is no third.
about 3 years ago, i pointed out richard stallman during his visit to
delhi, that i use GnuLinux instead of GNU/linux as GNU/linux suffers
from a typographic problem with certain typesetting engines during
typesetting and hyphenation.

GnuLinux = GNU/Linux

:-)
n

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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

[Kenneth Gonsalves]

On 06-Aug-07, at 1:42 AM, Linux Lingam wrote:

> has anyone hacked this to work with gnulinux

there are two camps - Linux and GNU/Linux - thats enough, please dont  
make a third front


-- 
regards

Kenneth Gonsalves
Associate, NRC-FOSS
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/




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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

[Linux Lingam]

> > also, strange as this may sound, can i get a similar
> > buffalo here in  india?
>
>  Yes, Buffalo NAS stations are available in India.
>
> regards
> VK


thanks for the info.
researching further, i stumbled across an article by BBC, which led me
to drobo, which led me to a cnet review, and at the bottom of the cnet
review links to more home-storage-and-sharing solutions that scales up
to gigs and terabytes.

so without further ado, please check out drobo
http://drobo.com/
the downside: a)supports only NTFS and HFS+ b) the empty shell costs
USD500, and you bring your own hardisk (YBYOHD)
the upside: quite a few.
has anyone hacked this to work with gnulinux filesystems and FAT32?

the cnet review of drobo, that mentions more devices at the end of the
article in the 'similar products' section:
http://reviews.cnet.com/hard-drives/drobo/4505-3186_7-32470303.html

an article in NYTimes, on solutions for the growing number of gora
mohantys and ankur rohtagis of the world :-)

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/02/technology/circuits/02basics.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1


:-)
LL

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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

[vivek khurana]

--- Linux Lingam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> did i read that right?
> you mean 700GB, or 700TB, but surely not 700MB?
> 
> also, strange as this may sound, can i get a similar
> buffalo here in  india?

 Yes, Buffalo NAS stations are available in India. 

regards
VK

Engineers normally have problem with every solution. If not they have  a 
solution in search of a problem.

Disclaimer
The facts expressed here belong to everybody, the opinions to me. The 
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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

[Linux Lingam]

On 8/3/07, Ankur Rohatgi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 02-08-07 6:23 PM, Linux Lingam wrote:
> > how much did that buffalo cost you?
> > what's your storage capacity?
>
> Costed me $700 and since its a RAID 5 array i lose some storage and it
> comes to about 700 MB.

did i read that right?
you mean 700GB, or 700TB, but surely not 700MB?

also, strange as this may sound, can i get a similar buffalo here in  india?

:-)

niyam

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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

[Ankur Rohatgi]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 02-08-07 6:23 PM, Linux Lingam wrote:
> how much did that buffalo cost you?
> what's your storage capacity?

Costed me $700 and since its a RAID 5 array i lose some storage and it
comes to about 700 MB. Plus really valuable data like kids videos also
get the DVD treatment.

> also, ankur, now i am surprised and not-surprised when you tell me you
> already kicked the tyres on that sonos. :-)
> am sure you must have also discovered that very high-end USD1000+
> internet radio that has some very superior DACs and components, plugs
> into high-end home-theater systems, and yes, can pick up data from
> these kind of storage devices and storage networks as well.

LOL, that i wasnt interested in. I am not an audiophile by any standard
and i didnt want to spend so much money on a device that should sound
much better but i wouldnt be able to tell with my ears :).

cheers.
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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

[Ankur Rohatgi]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 02-08-07 3:37 PM, vivek khurana wrote:

> With a price tag close to a lakh, not that simple
> though..

I dont know where you do your shopping, i got mine for $700 :).
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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

[Kenneth Gonsalves]

On 03-Aug-07, at 3:20 PM, Vipul Mathur wrote:

>> just think: Is there no way I can replicate/reconstruct this data if
>> it is lost?
>
> You've got to be kidding. How do you replicate/reconstruct thousands
> of photos taken over years, carefully categorized and tagged. Videos
> taken on family vacations / stage performance by family members...
> recordings of music composed by you... need I go on?

well, i suppose it depends on the person - I dont have any of the  
above things - so them as has them must do it


-- 
regards

Kenneth Gonsalves
Associate, NRC-FOSS
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/




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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

[Vipul Mathur]

On 8/3/07, Kenneth Gonsalves <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> this mania for backing up is much worse than the sin of not backing
> up at all. Usually when you lose data that has not been backed up,
> apart from the initial shock, it turns out to be a very good thing in
> the long run. So before spending that one lakh on multiTB Raid 15,
> just think: Is there no way I can replicate/reconstruct this data if
> it is lost?

You've got to be kidding. How do you replicate/reconstruct thousands
of photos taken over years, carefully categorized and tagged. Videos
taken on family vacations / stage performance by family members...
recordings of music composed by you... need I go on? Of course, not
*everything* is worth backing up, but that is up to the individual to
decide.

I would say that the need for a solid backup strategy in home setups
is about the same, if not more, than in corporate environments.

Of course the backup solution needs to be appropriate for the need, so
low-budget and technically sound solutions based on FOSS and
inexpensive storage devices is the way to go.

~ViM

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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

[Kenneth Gonsalves]

On 03-Aug-07, at 6:15 AM, Vikas Rawal wrote:

>> and as for other mail, everyone else backs it up, so I
>> just have to ask the relevant person for a copy when I want it.
>
> economists call it free riding :)

this mania for backing up is much worse than the sin of not backing  
up at all. Usually when you lose data that has not been backed up,  
apart from the initial shock, it turns out to be a very good thing in  
the long run. So before spending that one lakh on multiTB Raid 15,  
just think: Is there no way I can replicate/reconstruct this data if  
it is lost?


-- 
regards

Kenneth Gonsalves
Associate, NRC-FOSS
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/




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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

[Vikas Rawal]

> and as for other mail, everyone else backs it up, so I
> just have to ask the relevant person for a copy when I want it.

economists call it free riding :)

Vikas

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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

[Linux Lingam]

On 8/2/07, Ankur Rohatgi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 02-08-07 8:37 AM, vivek khurana wrote:
>
> > For home use RAID 1 is enough. Nothing complicated.
> > remember the KISS principle.
>
> I keep it very simple and use a Buffalo terrastation gigabit nas for my
> home storage needs. Its set for RAID 5.


heheheee. life couldn't be simpler when it's ankur around town. :-)

how much did that buffalo cost you?
what's your storage capacity?

must say, this discussion is so startling to me: terabytes at home
served over sophisticated storage devices. w o w !

also, ankur, now i am surprised and not-surprised when you tell me you
already kicked the tyres on that sonos. :-)
am sure you must have also discovered that very high-end USD1000+
internet radio that has some very superior DACs and components, plugs
into high-end home-theater systems, and yes, can pick up data from
these kind of storage devices and storage networks as well.
since you probably know about it, am not mentioning it here.
you may of course share with us how was your experience of using it
last year or whenever you bought it and checked it out already... :-)

:-)
niyam

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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

[vivek khurana]

--- Ankur Rohatgi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> On 02-08-07 8:37 AM, vivek khurana wrote:
> 
> > For home use RAID 1 is enough. Nothing
> complicated.
> > remember the KISS principle.
> 
> I keep it very simple and use a Buffalo terrastation
> gigabit nas for my
> home storage needs. Its set for RAID 5.
With a price tag close to a lakh, not that simple
though..

regards
VK


Engineers normally have problem with every solution. If not they have  a 
solution in search of a problem.

Disclaimer
The facts expressed here belong to everybody, the opinions to me. The 
distinction is yours to draw...


  

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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

[Ankur Rohatgi]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 02-08-07 8:37 AM, vivek khurana wrote:

> For home use RAID 1 is enough. Nothing complicated.
> remember the KISS principle.

I keep it very simple and use a Buffalo terrastation gigabit nas for my
home storage needs. Its set for RAID 5.
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (MingW32)
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OS6CMMSI1WOUo9A+nd+oi7Q=
=sFKe
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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

[Ankur Rohatgi]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 02-08-07 2:13 AM, Linux Lingam wrote:

> www.sonos.com and you'll understand why people would need a wifi-NAS
> at home. great link for ankur rohtagi. ;-)

Heheh, too slow my friend. I am an ex sonos user, i had it for about a
month and then i gave it to my brother in law who loves it. I found that
i preferred a complete unit with speakers et al when i want to stream
music, thats why i got that soundbridge radio. If sonos makes the amps
with speakers in the same unit, i will return to sonos. The remote
though is amazing.

And no i cant bring the Sonos to a meeting, its part of a very elaborate
multi zone music setup now and is kind of fixed with concealed wiring etc.

cheers.
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (MingW32)
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=kleZ
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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

[Shiv]

> 06. last week i discovered some companies have
> started shipping a
> Network-Attached-Storage with built-in wi-fi. i
> dunno if this is
> available in india, and at what price. what do you
> guys think?
/



hi,
Check out a fork off the m0n0wall (www.m0n0.ch/wall) project called FreeNAS 
(www.freenas.org).
In addition to other things that a NAS does, it will let you create a Wi-Fi NAS 
too!


With Warm Regards, 
Shivkumar 
linux user no: 450769
blog: outbackwifi.blogspot.com 
website: www.outbackwifi.com








  

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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

[lawgon]

Quoting Gora Mohanty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:


> 
> Erm, doesn't everyone? I have 1TB at home in a RAID-1 configuration.

i dont - the only data i cant afford to lose are my passwords which are backed
up on deadtrees and locked in a safe. I dont even back up mail any more. List
mail is archived anyway, and as for other mail, everyone else backs it up, so I
just have to ask the relevant person for a copy when I want it.



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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

[vivek khurana]

--- Linux Lingam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On 8/1/07, Vikram Ranade
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 750 GB drives cost 11k each at Nehru Place.
> >
> > we've just bought a bunch of them for storage.
> 
> bunch of 750GB HDD for home storage.
> gulp!
> i agree with kishore, you gotta give a talk at
> freed.in "Raiding the
> kitchen: what's cooking in terabytes at home."
> 
> 01. seems like everyone's recommending going the
> hard-disks way, where
> the hard-disk *is* the removable media. we live in
> interesting times.
> am confused on whether i should go raid0, 1, or 5.
> refreshed my
> theory-fundas off wikipedia here:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID
> 
> but what do you guys recommend?
> 
For home use RAID 1 is enough. Nothing complicated.
remember the KISS principle.

> 02. surprisingly, no one is recommending
> tape-archive. but makes sense too.
> 
> 03. the amazon S3 idea is a winner on its own merit.
> but will have to
> psychologically prepare myself: my home personal
> data, totalling
> several gigabytes, is in a digital godown several
> hundred miles away,
> accessible from anywhere with a click, for which i
> have to pay rent
> every month in US dollars.
> now we live in even more interesting times.
> 
> 04. even off-line archive on hardisks is being
> recommended. however, i
> just had a nasty clickety-click on a 3-week old
> hardisk i was still
> filling to the brim with data.
>

 Well with the invent of usb casing I count HDD as
removable media.
 As for clicking sound, this could be a problem with
other hardware. I remember that one of my HDD refused
to work on your machine and same clicking sound could
be heard. But guess what, same harddrive is still
working as a main data store on my machine(with
reformatting or anything). And yes, I had also tried
connecting my usb2.0 mini HDD and it did not work,
where as it immediately worked on your brother's
machine and incidentally that HDD is still doing its
job  . So the problem could be in other hardware
instead of HDD.

> 05. what i find unusual is no one is recommending
> HD-DVD or blueray?
> is it out and available in india? at what prices?
> what is the actual
> storage available on those new shiny platters?
>

 Well storage space is required for HD-DVD or Cds or
dvds. One HDD can replace loads of these platters.

> 06. last week i discovered some companies have
> started shipping a
> Network-Attached-Storage with built-in wi-fi. i
> dunno if this is
> available in india, and at what price. what do you
> guys think?
> 
> incidentally, those keen to check out what made me
> stumble to this
> wifi-NAS, click here:
> www.sonos.com and you'll understand why people would
> need a wifi-NAS
> at home. great link for ankur rohtagi. ;-)
> 
> wouldn't a wifi-NAS make sense? i know this is a
> dumb question, but
> hey! i'm dumb! would a NAS be as reliable as a RAID5
> array,
> performance, price, etc...?

 And what makes you think NAS box wont have RAID ?
 For home use why not build a NAS box your self. All
you need is a PC with linux installed (no need to
install gui, normal install with ssh will do, go for
RAID if you are paranoid about data redundancy).
Create one big data partition and make it available
for other machines via samba, simple :-) 
 Oh yes you can attach a wifi card instead of normal
lan and you have wifi NAS. No rocket science here :-)

regards
VK

Engineers normally have problem with every solution. If not they have  a 
solution in search of a problem.

Disclaimer
The facts expressed here belong to everybody, the opinions to me. The 
distinction is yours to draw...


   

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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

[Gora Mohanty]

On Wed, 2007-08-01 at 18:05 +0530, Linux Lingam wrote:
> On 8/1/07, Gora Mohanty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Wed, 2007-08-01 at 02:14 +0530, Linux Lingam wrote:
> > > dear all,
> > >
> > > what are the best options for backing up 40 to 60 gb of data per month?
> > [...]
> >
> > Decent 500GB IDE drives are going for about Rs. 5K, which takes care of
> > 8-10 months of storage. If you really care for the data, buy two, and
> > make a software RAID array out of them.
> 
> wow! they've come down that much in price! neato.
> 
> just googled, and discovered 1TB hard-disks are also available, but
> dunno if they're available in india yet.

Price/GB is significantly more expensive for these, at least last when
I looked. You can get them in India, however.

> >Splurge on another Rs. 1.5K
> > for a good USB/IDE interface, and you have instant access to the
> > stored data.
> 
> so you're saying i could use a usb2 hub, plug in 500GB hardisks
> slapped into usb-casings connected to this hub, and run a raid?

Erm, no. Sorry for conflating two things. Use RAID-1 for data that
you really care about. It will be stored transparently, with a backup
on a separate disk. The USB/IDE interface is for having large amounts
of data in a mobile medium. Reliability is lower, probably largely due
to physical shock to the drive when lugging it around. Here is what I
currently have, as an example.
Home computer:
  o 300GB drive: No RAID, for data that I can afford to lose.
  o Two 500GB drives in a RAID-1 configuration, i.e., 500 GB of
automatically backed-up storage, for data that I want to preserve.
Portable disk:
  o A 300GB IDE drive, with a USB/IDE interface that lets me plug it
in wherever I go. I was even kind enough to leave 25GB as a VFAT
filesystem for sharing data with lesser operating systems. If I
care enough about the pr0n^Wmovies^Wsome data on this drive, I
copy them to the RAID drives.

Regards,
Gora


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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

[Gora Mohanty]

On Wed, 2007-08-01 at 18:58 +0530, Kishore Bhargava wrote:
> Vikram Ranade wrote:
> > 750 GB drives cost 11k each at Nehru Place.
> > 
> > we've just bought a bunch of them for storage.
> > Personally I recommend a HDD based software raid 5 array.
> > I have 2 such arrays at home totalling 2.5TB and they have been
> > working really well for the past 2 years.
> > 
> > We did something similar at work with several 1.5TB arrays for backups
> > using rsync scripts to pull backups 3 times a day from client machines.
> > 
> 
> With over 2TB of space at home, you just volunteered to give a talk at 
> freed.in ;-)
[...]

Erm, doesn't everyone? I have 1TB at home in a RAID-1 configuration. No
muss, no fuss. Debian handled all the crap for me.

Regards,
Gora


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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

[Linux Lingam]

good old slashy! lots of different viewpoints.

http://ask.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/10/30/184256

:-)
niyam

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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

[Linux Lingam]

On 8/1/07, Vikram Ranade <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 750 GB drives cost 11k each at Nehru Place.
>
> we've just bought a bunch of them for storage.

bunch of 750GB HDD for home storage.
gulp!
i agree with kishore, you gotta give a talk at freed.in "Raiding the
kitchen: what's cooking in terabytes at home."

01. seems like everyone's recommending going the hard-disks way, where
the hard-disk *is* the removable media. we live in interesting times.
am confused on whether i should go raid0, 1, or 5. refreshed my
theory-fundas off wikipedia here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID

but what do you guys recommend?

02. surprisingly, no one is recommending tape-archive. but makes sense too.

03. the amazon S3 idea is a winner on its own merit. but will have to
psychologically prepare myself: my home personal data, totalling
several gigabytes, is in a digital godown several hundred miles away,
accessible from anywhere with a click, for which i have to pay rent
every month in US dollars.
now we live in even more interesting times.

04. even off-line archive on hardisks is being recommended. however, i
just had a nasty clickety-click on a 3-week old hardisk i was still
filling to the brim with data.

05. what i find unusual is no one is recommending HD-DVD or blueray?
is it out and available in india? at what prices? what is the actual
storage available on those new shiny platters?

06. last week i discovered some companies have started shipping a
Network-Attached-Storage with built-in wi-fi. i dunno if this is
available in india, and at what price. what do you guys think?

incidentally, those keen to check out what made me stumble to this
wifi-NAS, click here:
www.sonos.com and you'll understand why people would need a wifi-NAS
at home. great link for ankur rohtagi. ;-)

wouldn't a wifi-NAS make sense? i know this is a dumb question, but
hey! i'm dumb! would a NAS be as reliable as a RAID5 array,
performance, price, etc...?


thanks for your continued discussions on this topic.
am glad to learn from all of you and appreciate your sharing.

:-)
niyam

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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

[Vikram Ranade]

750 GB drives cost 11k each at Nehru Place.

we've just bought a bunch of them for storage.
Personally I recommend a HDD based software raid 5 array.
I have 2 such arrays at home totalling 2.5TB and they have been
working really well for the past 2 years.

We did something similar at work with several 1.5TB arrays for backups
using rsync scripts to pull backups 3 times a day from client machines.

If you want a really cool setup then check out backuppc
it is an automated snapshot style backup system that can work with rsync
to get really good performance (backup speeds).we've been planning to
migrate tho this from our current scripted backup system.it has a nice
web interface and pulls backups from the client machines on an individual
schedule.

Vikram

Linux Lingam wrote:
>
> wow! they've come down that much in price! neato.
>
> just googled, and discovered 1TB hard-disks are also available, but
> dunno if they're available in india yet.
>
>
>   

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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

[Kishore Bhargava]

Vikram Ranade wrote:
> 750 GB drives cost 11k each at Nehru Place.
> 
> we've just bought a bunch of them for storage.
> Personally I recommend a HDD based software raid 5 array.
> I have 2 such arrays at home totalling 2.5TB and they have been
> working really well for the past 2 years.
> 
> We did something similar at work with several 1.5TB arrays for backups
> using rsync scripts to pull backups 3 times a day from client machines.
> 

With over 2TB of space at home, you just volunteered to give a talk at 
freed.in ;-)

Please, please, please, Vikram go and register a talk on backup and 
backup solutions. There are actually several really cool solutions with 
large volume managers like Openfiler and many of the rsync based 
thingys. Would be a neat talk.

Cheers...Kishore
-- 
The only really decent thing to do behind a person's back is pat it.

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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

[vivek khurana]

--- Linux Lingam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> 
> thanks vivek.
> i wonder if hardisks, especially when used for such
> heavy read-writes,
> can last 10 years. i've seen my data cds have
> actually lasted 10
> years, but can't recall a single hard-disk that has.

 As backups which is not accessed so frequently, yes
they can last. I have 4GB harddrives with me which are
used as backups since April 1996. I only connect them
to my machine while i have to copy something from
archieves. With proper care HDD can last long really
long.
 Older cds or dvds used to last for years but i have
noticed that newer ones dont. Maybe they have
compromised quality somewhere to bring down the cost.

 Tapes are not that good specially for home use. Ask
the system admins who have to take backups on tapes
and restore content...
 A big harddrive or maybe two or three smaller drives
could be really useful. I would personally prefer two
or three smaller drives. One main backup and others as
backup of the backup. That way even if one disk fails
you have redundant data to fall back upon.

regards
VK
> 
> so i guess archive has to be on something else.
> more responses to other suggestions in the thread.
> 
> thanks everyone for your ideas.
> 
> :-)
> niyam
> 
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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

[vivek khurana]

--- Linux Lingam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> >Splurge on another Rs. 1.5K
> > for a good USB/IDE interface, and you have instant
> access to the
> > stored data.
> 
> so you're saying i could use a usb2 hub, plug in
> 500GB hardisks
> slapped into usb-casings connected to this hub, and
> run a raid?

 RAID on usb... think again...

regards
VK


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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

[Linux Lingam]

thanks tanveer for your response.

> > Gora
> Isnt something like Amazon S3 more reliable, if the data is critical.
> Its auotmatic using shell scripts and cron jobs.
> Cost for such data would come to around 15$/month if your total
> storage online is around 60GB
> Thats around 600rs/month or around 7200/year which is the cost of a
> 500GB HDD and iits very very reliable.

hmmm.. maybe a good idea for a secondary backup, to store/archive
using a nuclear-resistant technology, and gives me access from
anywhere on the planet. :-)

uploading and downloading will be a drag though, and i wonder how
secure it is. as raj might point out, any service is 100% secure until
hacked. then it is immediately 100% insecure.

:-)
n

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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

[Linux Lingam]

On 8/1/07, Gora Mohanty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, 2007-08-01 at 02:14 +0530, Linux Lingam wrote:
> > dear all,
> >
> > what are the best options for backing up 40 to 60 gb of data per month?
> [...]
>
> Decent 500GB IDE drives are going for about Rs. 5K, which takes care of
> 8-10 months of storage. If you really care for the data, buy two, and
> make a software RAID array out of them.

wow! they've come down that much in price! neato.

just googled, and discovered 1TB hard-disks are also available, but
dunno if they're available in india yet.

>Splurge on another Rs. 1.5K
> for a good USB/IDE interface, and you have instant access to the
> stored data.

so you're saying i could use a usb2 hub, plug in 500GB hardisks
slapped into usb-casings connected to this hub, and run a raid?


>
> Regards,
> Gora
>
>
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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

[Linux Lingam]

>
>  Take a harddrive of double or more capacity than your
> total data and do a weekly rsync of all your data.
> Simple :-)
> If you tell us the layout for your data (or data
> partition) we can write a script for you to automate
> the backup.


thanks vivek.
i wonder if hardisks, especially when used for such heavy read-writes,
can last 10 years. i've seen my data cds have actually lasted 10
years, but can't recall a single hard-disk that has.

so i guess archive has to be on something else.
more responses to other suggestions in the thread.

thanks everyone for your ideas.

:-)
niyam

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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

[Vipul Mathur]

On 8/1/07, Gora Mohanty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Decent 500GB IDE drives are going for about Rs. 5K, which takes care of
> 8-10 months of storage. If you really care for the data, buy two, and
> make a software RAID array out of them.

Agreed. In fact I would suggest that you make the 500GB RAID 1 setup
your primary data storage partition. This would give you protection
against a single disc (out of the two 500GB) failing. Increased read
performance will be a side effect!

You additionally require off-disk backups if you want to protect
against accidental deletion / file system corruption. rsync is the way
to go, as always.

As Gora said, to what extent you go in the backup game depends on how
paranoid you are about your data.

-- 
Vipul Mathur
vipul.mathur[at]gmail.com
http://www.vipulmathur.org/

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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

[Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Linux Lingam wrote:

> what are the best options for backing up 40 to 60 gb of data per month?
> dvd discs have come down in price, but some of the data-files are
> individually larger than 10gb (home video) and cutting and storing
> sliced versions across discs is rather inelegant.

If you can handle bandwidth cost, go for Amazon's service, might be
helpful. Else buy some HDD and back them up using amanda (perhaps ?)

On a side note, you are becoming somewhat of a niche UseCase - worth a
mention in your LFY column ;)


- --

You see things; and you say 'Why?';
But I dream things that never were;
and I say 'Why not?' - George Bernard Shaw
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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[ilugd] backing up large weekly data

[Tanveer Singh]

On 8/1/07, Gora Mohanty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, 2007-08-01 at 02:14 +0530, Linux Lingam wrote:
> > dear all,
> >
> > what are the best options for backing up 40 to 60 gb of data per month?
> [...]
>
> Decent 500GB IDE drives are going for about Rs. 5K, which takes care of
> 8-10 months of storage. If you really care for the data, buy two, and
> make a software RAID array out of them. Splurge on another Rs. 1.5K
> for a good USB/IDE interface, and you have instant access to the
> stored data.
>
> Regards,
> Gora
Isnt something like Amazon S3 more reliable, if the data is critical.
Its auotmatic using shell scripts and cron jobs.
Cost for such data would come to around 15$/month if your total
storage online is around 60GB
Thats around 600rs/month or around 7200/year which is the cost of a
500GB HDD and iits very very reliable.

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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

[Gora Mohanty]

On Wed, 2007-08-01 at 02:14 +0530, Linux Lingam wrote:
> dear all,
> 
> what are the best options for backing up 40 to 60 gb of data per month?
[...]

Decent 500GB IDE drives are going for about Rs. 5K, which takes care of
8-10 months of storage. If you really care for the data, buy two, and
make a software RAID array out of them. Splurge on another Rs. 1.5K
for a good USB/IDE interface, and you have instant access to the
stored data.

Regards,
Gora


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Re: [ilugd] backing up large weekly data

[vivek khurana]

--- Linux Lingam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> dear all,
> 
> what are the best options for backing up 40 to 60 gb
> of data per month?
> dvd discs have come down in price, but some of the
> data-files are
> individually larger than 10gb (home video) and
> cutting and storing
> sliced versions across discs is rather inelegant.

 Take a harddrive of double or more capacity than your
total data and do a weekly rsync of all your data.
Simple :-)
If you tell us the layout for your data (or data
partition) we can write a script for you to automate
the backup.

regards
VK


Engineers normally have problem with every solution. If not they have  a 
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[ilugd] backing up large weekly data

[Linux Lingam]

dear all,

what are the best options for backing up 40 to 60 gb of data per month?
dvd discs have come down in price, but some of the data-files are
individually larger than 10gb (home video) and cutting and storing
sliced versions across discs is rather inelegant.

hard-disks have come down to approx rs 4,750 to 5,500 for about 120GB.
storing a growing bunch of them is elegant, and connecting them in and
out, either straight to IDE ribbon-cables or inside usb-casings, is
probably not a good idea.

cd discs offer too small a footprint.

i dunno prices of DAT tapedrives, tapes, and their capacities. but how
do they compare?

strange how home-use storage can suddenly become demanding if you do a
lot of video and hi-res digital photos.

tia for your responses.

:-)
niyam

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