Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP as a template language
It's probably worth mentioning, to be fair to Reindl, that he can no longer respond publically to this list.. Thanks, Kiall Sent from my phone. On Apr 7, 2012 8:07 p.m., "Maciek Sokolewicz" wrote: > On 07-04-2012 03:10, John Crenshaw wrote: > > Seriously, if you're so angry that you can't even type straight you >> should take a break before responding. Any argument delivered like this >> won't be well received anyway. Take a break, find your place of zen, >> respond when you can be civil. >> >> Do you have no idea how to maintain a level of professionalism when interacting with the opinions and ideas of other developers? >>> >>> i have ideas how to do so >>> >>> but i learned over many years that people do not understand that they >>> have >>> really bad ideas if you say freindly "not a godd idea" >>> >> >> Wow. I'm honestly shocked. That's the crux of it isn't it? Trouble is >> that this sort of response violates the rules of the mailing list; rules >> that we all agreed to. It also isn't going to go over well with the type of >> people you have here. This is not a productive communication tactic, this >> is bullying. If you are unwilling to be civil and rational I have to ask, >> why are you even here? >> >> John Crenshaw >> Priacta, Inc. >> > > John, I completely agree with you. I would like to urge Reindl to please, > PLEASE, reconsider your response, at least once, preferably even more > often, before posting it. In this thread alone, you have personally > attacked Tom Boutell for no good reason. Your responses were generally very > very rude, and may easily (and in my opinion rightfuly so) be considered > personal attacks. > > Again, I urge you to reconsider posting such messages. The rules of > conduct on these mailinglists include section on exactly this. They are > there to remind us all to be civil. We do not attack eachother in the way > you do. Instead, you may politely state your view, but do not yell, scream, > or try to force your views on others. > > I would suggest you reread what you have posted, and try to imagine what > it would look like from other reader's points of view. Personally I felt > very unpleasant reading your responses. I was hoping it would be a > one-time-only post, born from anger on a bad day, and that it would be > followed by an apology. Unfortunately, you continued posting this way. > > I am sorry I had to write this. But I feel we should all stand up for > eachother. > > To tell the truth I'd be more excited by a proposal to kill > entirely, or more realistically, to support an alternate file >> extension that doesn't need it. That would be an interesting option >> for those who want to put "dribs and drabs of PHP sprinkled in HTML" >> completely behind them. >> > > Tom: I agree with your point. I think it would be nice to be able to > create PHP codefiles which do not require the just be a nice-to-have thing, and not really that important, since I'm not > that bothered by using > Just my $0.02, > - Tul > > -- > PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php > >
Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP as a template language
On 07-04-2012 03:10, John Crenshaw wrote: Seriously, if you're so angry that you can't even type straight you should take a break before responding. Any argument delivered like this won't be well received anyway. Take a break, find your place of zen, respond when you can be civil. Do you have no idea how to maintain a level of professionalism when interacting with the opinions and ideas of other developers? i have ideas how to do so but i learned over many years that people do not understand that they have really bad ideas if you say freindly "not a godd idea" Wow. I'm honestly shocked. That's the crux of it isn't it? Trouble is that this sort of response violates the rules of the mailing list; rules that we all agreed to. It also isn't going to go over well with the type of people you have here. This is not a productive communication tactic, this is bullying. If you are unwilling to be civil and rational I have to ask, why are you even here? John Crenshaw Priacta, Inc. John, I completely agree with you. I would like to urge Reindl to please, PLEASE, reconsider your response, at least once, preferably even more often, before posting it. In this thread alone, you have personally attacked Tom Boutell for no good reason. Your responses were generally very very rude, and may easily (and in my opinion rightfuly so) be considered personal attacks. Again, I urge you to reconsider posting such messages. The rules of conduct on these mailinglists include section on exactly this. They are there to remind us all to be civil. We do not attack eachother in the way you do. Instead, you may politely state your view, but do not yell, scream, or try to force your views on others. I would suggest you reread what you have posted, and try to imagine what it would look like from other reader's points of view. Personally I felt very unpleasant reading your responses. I was hoping it would be a one-time-only post, born from anger on a bad day, and that it would be followed by an apology. Unfortunately, you continued posting this way. I am sorry I had to write this. But I feel we should all stand up for eachother. To tell the truth I'd be more excited by a proposal to kill Tom: I agree with your point. I think it would be nice to be able to create PHP codefiles which do not require the would just be a nice-to-have thing, and not really that important, since I'm not that bothered by using Just my $0.02, - Tul -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP as a template language
Sébatien Durand wrote: But I was not completely aware of the level of change/break my suggestion will cause. I'm grateful the work you do. It was just a usability/cosmetic remark of a daily PHP user. I can live with it. You have to bear in mind that many of us have many years of code base invested in PHP and even the 'improvements' that do get through are just major drains on a rare resource - time! There IS nothing wrong with PHP that was written 10 years ago and many sites just never get updated. Heck PHP4 IS still running in the field. My own view is that many of the current 'developments' are more to make the language 'compiler friendly' and don't have a place when running the code live. Fixing the support would eliminate many of the 'complaints' rather than loading PHP up with checks that don't add anything to generating a html page ... which is the only place PHP should be targeting ... from my point of view. Anything else ... use a more suitable language in the first place? -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP-DEV] PHP as a template language
-Original Message- From: Reindl Harald [mailto:h.rei...@thelounge.net] > Am 07.04.2012 01:30, schrieb Chris Stockton: > > Hello, > > > > On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 3:08 PM, Reindl Harald > > wrote: > >> > >> > >> Am 06.04.2012 23:54, schrieb Tom Boutell: > >>> On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 5:39 PM, Reindl Harald > >>> wrote: > >> > >> the "who" in such cases are ALL developers out there damned can i > >> send you the invoice for my time if your ideas would be realizedß if > >> no shut up! > >> > > > > Why is it every single time I see your name in the discussions here it > > is shortly followed by hostile personal attacks. > > maybe because i do not comment every and each post out in this world - only > the one which would make hughe damage in most existing applications? Seriously, if you're so angry that you can't even type straight you should take a break before responding. Any argument delivered like this won't be well received anyway. Take a break, find your place of zen, respond when you can be civil. > > Do you have no idea how to maintain a level of professionalism when > > interacting with the opinions and ideas of other developers? > > i have ideas how to do so > > but i learned over many years that people do not understand that they have > really bad ideas if you say freindly "not a godd idea" Wow. I'm honestly shocked. That's the crux of it isn't it? Trouble is that this sort of response violates the rules of the mailing list; rules that we all agreed to. It also isn't going to go over well with the type of people you have here. This is not a productive communication tactic, this is bullying. If you are unwilling to be civil and rational I have to ask, why are you even here? John Crenshaw Priacta, Inc.
Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP as a template language
Am 07.04.2012 01:30, schrieb Chris Stockton: > Hello, > > On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 3:08 PM, Reindl Harald wrote: >> >> >> Am 06.04.2012 23:54, schrieb Tom Boutell: >>> On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 5:39 PM, Reindl Harald >>> wrote: >> >> the "who" in such cases are ALL developers out there damned >> can i send you the invoice for my time if your ideas >> would be realizedß if no shut up! >> > > Why is it every single time I see your name in the discussions here it > is shortly followed by hostile personal attacks. maybe because i do not comment every and each post out in this world - only the one which would make hughe damage in most existing applications? > Do you have no idea how to maintain a level of professionalism when > interacting with the opinions and ideas of other developers? i have ideas how to do so but i learned over many years that people do not understand that they ahve really bad ideas if you say freindly "not a godd idea" > Does your company, http://www.thelounge.net/ represent itself in this > way? If I was a prospecting customer who had a idea for a relevant > technology venture and was willing to pay for it would I receive > personal attacks for mentioning something you disagree with? does the OP with they idea dropping Why don't you act not just like a industry professional, but a decent > human being when you talk to people because i saw way too much useless changes in too much software stacks, mostly with poor quality and less benefit the last years proposed and done by bored people only for the sake of the change? BTW: is your "reply to list" broken or why using "reply all"? signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP as a template language
Hello, On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 3:08 PM, Reindl Harald wrote: > > > Am 06.04.2012 23:54, schrieb Tom Boutell: >> On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 5:39 PM, Reindl Harald wrote: > > the "who" in such cases are ALL developers out there damned > can i send you the invoice for my time if your ideas > would be realizedß if no shut up! > Why is it every single time I see your name in the discussions here it is shortly followed by hostile personal attacks. Do you have no idea how to maintain a level of professionalism when interacting with the opinions and ideas of other developers? Does your company, http://www.thelounge.net/ represent itself in this way? If I was a prospecting customer who had a idea for a relevant technology venture and was willing to pay for it would I receive personal attacks for mentioning something you disagree with? Why don't you act not just like a industry professional, but a decent human being when you talk to people. -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP-DEV] PHP as a template language
> yes, i am not able to stop calling people to lazy writing whitespaces in front morons The constant personal attacks are a violation of the mailing list rules. Nobody likes getting this in their inbox. Please let's keep this civil. John Crenshaw Priacta, Inc. -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP as a template language
Am 06.04.2012 23:54, schrieb Tom Boutell: > On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 5:39 PM, Reindl Harald wrote: >> what do you expect by propose work for many people > Oh I'm sorry, do we need to start every feature suggestion with a > description of exactly who will do the work? the "who" in such cases are ALL developers out there damned can i send you the invoice for my time if your ideas would be realizedß if no shut up! propsoing BC incompatible changes FOr NOTHING is forcing thousands of users changing many thousands of files for nothing while they end in make them incompatible for older versions in which world do you live that you have no useful work bseides changing perfect working code? >> why are you making this whitespaces? >> fix your editor or get an IDE removing them at save > > Right, workarounds forever, nothing should be fixed at the source. what is a workaround in not make useless whitespaces? where is your feature request to remove shebang of bash-scripts and where is your whining that the are not woring with windows-linebreaks >> you are not in the position to dictate how people are working > > You'll note I acknowledged bc is necessary. But you don't seem to be > able to stop yelling anyway. yes, i am not able to stop calling people to lazy writing > there are differences between projects, classes and >> rapid-development and thousands of good reasons >> using signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP as a template language
On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 5:39 PM, Reindl Harald wrote: > > what do you expect by propose work for many people Oh I'm sorry, do we need to start every feature suggestion with a description of exactly who will do the work? > is it so hard to write It is so embarrassing. Every time I type it a Ruby developer laughs like a hyena. > why are you making this whitespaces? > fix your editor or get an IDE removing them at save Right, workarounds forever, nothing should be fixed at the source. > you are not in the position to dictate how people are working You'll note I acknowledged bc is necessary. But you don't seem to be able to stop yelling anyway. > there are differences between projects, classes and > rapid-development and thousands of good reasons > using http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP as a template language
Tom Boutell wrote: Knock it off with the ad-hominem attacks please. You are entitled to your views, but I suspect that this would be a nail far too far. I for one would be only too happy to cut loose and keep a REAL copy of PHP running as all this ballast is simply destroying what used to be an agile scripting language. Anybody for RealPHP and roll back to say 5.2 and strip out anything not needed at run time :) All this 'hinting' and 'moaning' at what always used to be perfectly good code is the pain in the posterior. STRICT is going to take me months to assimilate, so simply switching back to a version that does not have it and keeping perfectly good sites running makes more sense than discussing changes that need every file the thousands currently running on my system reviewing ... I'm currently having to review every site to check it will even run cleanly on 5.3 when the ISP loads that up next month! -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP as a template language
Am 06.04.2012 23:30, schrieb Tom Boutell:
> Knock it off with the ad-hominem attacks please.
what do you expect by propose work for many people
> It's not "change for the sake of change" to propose that PHP move on from
> needing (and breaking mysteriously in weird
> subtle ways if it's missing, due to unneeded whitespace being output)
why are you making this whitespaces?
fix your editor or get an IDE removing them at save
> and recognize that it's a modern language in which you don't mix
> unparsed HTML with source code.
you are not in the position to dictate how people are working
there are differences between projects, classes and
rapid-development and thousands of good reasons
using >> completely behind them.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 5:19 PM, Tom Boutell wrote:
I have to agree with that. Also: does PHP need to be a templating
language anymore, given excellent templating language implementations
in PHP, like Twig?
On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 3:05 PM, John Crenshaw
wrote:
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Sébatien Durand [mailto:sun...@live.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 10:55 PM
>> To: internals@lists.php.net
>> Subject: [PHP-DEV] PHP as a template language
>>
>> IMHO, PHP is a great template language. This is what makes it so simple
>> and powerful, compared to other web languages.
>>
>> So far, we have ">
>> A suggestion : deprecate these old tags and replace them with a more
>> elegant and a shorter implementation.
>>
>> For example : "<%" and "<%=" or "{%" and "{{" ?
>>
>> What do you think, guys ?
>
> Honestly this is the wrong question. PHP as a template language has much
> larger problems than this. The difference between characters and entirely cosmetic. The difference relative to htmlentities(..., ENT_QUOTES | ENT_HTML5, 'UTF-8'); ?> however is 56
> characters, security, and encoding bugs.
>
> Proper handling of output escaping is standard in modern template
> languages. The question shouldn't be "should we add a cooler short tag?".
> The question should be "What needs to be done to make PHP an industry
> leader in template languages again?".
>
> My two cents,
>
> John Crenshaw
> Priacta, Inc.
>
> --
> PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>
--
Tom Boutell
P'unk Avenue
215 755 1330
punkave.com
window.punkave.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Mit besten Grüßen, Reindl Harald
>> the lounge interactive design GmbH
>> A-1060 Vienna, Hofmühlgasse 17
>> CTO / software-development / cms-solutions
>> p: +43 (1) 595 3999 33, m: +43 (676) 40 221 40
>> icq: 154546673, http://www.thelounge.net/
>>
>> http://www.thelounge.net/signature.asc.what.htm
>>
>
>
>
--
Mit besten Grüßen, Reindl Harald
the lounge interactive design GmbH
A-1060 Vienna, Hofmühlgasse 17
CTO / software-development / cms-solutions
p: +43 (1) 595 3999 33, m: +43 (676) 40 221 40
icq: 154546673, http://www.thelounge.net/
http://www.thelounge.net/signature.asc.what.htm
signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP as a template language
I should have said "breaking mysteriously in weird subtle ways if
there are blank lines before wrote:
> Knock it off with the ad-hominem attacks please. It's not "change for
> the sake of change" to propose that PHP move on from needing the stop of every class file (and breaking mysteriously in weird
> subtle ways if it's missing, due to unneeded whitespace being output)
> and recognize that it's a modern language in which you don't mix
> unparsed HTML with source code. Especially since I suggested offering
> this feature when an alternate file extension is used, to make bc
> possible. Your attitude discourages participation.
>
> On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 5:25 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:
>> what exactly is your problem?
>> having solution searching problem?
>>
>> what are people like you try to achieve?
>> what would make you happy in breaking BC?
>> what would you make happy generate lot of work for others?
>> what would be better for anybody?
>>
>> change for the sake of the change is blindly stupid
>>
>> Am 06.04.2012 23:20, schrieb Tom Boutell:
>>> To tell the truth I'd be more excited by a proposal to kill >> entirely, or more realistically, to support an alternate file
>>> extension that doesn't need it. That would be an interesting option
>>> for those who want to put "dribs and drabs of PHP sprinkled in HTML"
>>> completely behind them.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 5:19 PM, Tom Boutell wrote:
I have to agree with that. Also: does PHP need to be a templating
language anymore, given excellent templating language implementations
in PHP, like Twig?
On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 3:05 PM, John Crenshaw
wrote:
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Sébatien Durand [mailto:sun...@live.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 10:55 PM
>> To: internals@lists.php.net
>> Subject: [PHP-DEV] PHP as a template language
>>
>> IMHO, PHP is a great template language. This is what makes it so simple
>> and powerful, compared to other web languages.
>>
>> So far, we have ">
>> A suggestion : deprecate these old tags and replace them with a more
>> elegant and a shorter implementation.
>>
>> For example : "<%" and "<%=" or "{%" and "{{" ?
>>
>> What do you think, guys ?
>
> Honestly this is the wrong question. PHP as a template language has much
> larger problems than this. The difference between characters and entirely cosmetic. The difference relative to htmlentities(..., ENT_QUOTES | ENT_HTML5, 'UTF-8'); ?> however is 56
> characters, security, and encoding bugs.
>
> Proper handling of output escaping is standard in modern template
> languages. The question shouldn't be "should we add a cooler short tag?".
> The question should be "What needs to be done to make PHP an industry
> leader in template languages again?".
>
> My two cents,
>
> John Crenshaw
> Priacta, Inc.
>
> --
> PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>
--
Tom Boutell
P'unk Avenue
215 755 1330
punkave.com
window.punkave.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Mit besten Grüßen, Reindl Harald
>> the lounge interactive design GmbH
>> A-1060 Vienna, Hofmühlgasse 17
>> CTO / software-development / cms-solutions
>> p: +43 (1) 595 3999 33, m: +43 (676) 40 221 40
>> icq: 154546673, http://www.thelounge.net/
>>
>> http://www.thelounge.net/signature.asc.what.htm
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Tom Boutell
> P'unk Avenue
> 215 755 1330
> punkave.com
> window.punkave.com
--
Tom Boutell
P'unk Avenue
215 755 1330
punkave.com
window.punkave.com
--
PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP as a template language
Knock it off with the ad-hominem attacks please. It's not "change for
the sake of change" to propose that PHP move on from needing wrote:
> what exactly is your problem?
> having solution searching problem?
>
> what are people like you try to achieve?
> what would make you happy in breaking BC?
> what would you make happy generate lot of work for others?
> what would be better for anybody?
>
> change for the sake of the change is blindly stupid
>
> Am 06.04.2012 23:20, schrieb Tom Boutell:
>> To tell the truth I'd be more excited by a proposal to kill > entirely, or more realistically, to support an alternate file
>> extension that doesn't need it. That would be an interesting option
>> for those who want to put "dribs and drabs of PHP sprinkled in HTML"
>> completely behind them.
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 5:19 PM, Tom Boutell wrote:
>>> I have to agree with that. Also: does PHP need to be a templating
>>> language anymore, given excellent templating language implementations
>>> in PHP, like Twig?
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 3:05 PM, John Crenshaw
>>> wrote:
> -Original Message-
> From: Sébatien Durand [mailto:sun...@live.com]
> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 10:55 PM
> To: internals@lists.php.net
> Subject: [PHP-DEV] PHP as a template language
>
> IMHO, PHP is a great template language. This is what makes it so simple
> and powerful, compared to other web languages.
>
> So far, we have "
> A suggestion : deprecate these old tags and replace them with a more
> elegant and a shorter implementation.
>
> For example : "<%" and "<%=" or "{%" and "{{" ?
>
> What do you think, guys ?
Honestly this is the wrong question. PHP as a template language has much
larger problems than this. The difference between >>> characters and entirely cosmetic. The difference relative to >>> htmlentities(..., ENT_QUOTES | ENT_HTML5, 'UTF-8'); ?> however is 56
characters, security, and encoding bugs.
Proper handling of output escaping is standard in modern template
languages. The question shouldn't be "should we add a cooler short tag?".
The question should be "What needs to be done to make PHP an industry
leader in template languages again?".
My two cents,
John Crenshaw
Priacta, Inc.
--
PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Tom Boutell
>>> P'unk Avenue
>>> 215 755 1330
>>> punkave.com
>>> window.punkave.com
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
>
> Mit besten Grüßen, Reindl Harald
> the lounge interactive design GmbH
> A-1060 Vienna, Hofmühlgasse 17
> CTO / software-development / cms-solutions
> p: +43 (1) 595 3999 33, m: +43 (676) 40 221 40
> icq: 154546673, http://www.thelounge.net/
>
> http://www.thelounge.net/signature.asc.what.htm
>
--
Tom Boutell
P'unk Avenue
215 755 1330
punkave.com
window.punkave.com
--
PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP as a template language
what exactly is your problem?
having solution searching problem?
what are people like you try to achieve?
what would make you happy in breaking BC?
what would you make happy generate lot of work for others?
what would be better for anybody?
change for the sake of the change is blindly stupid
Am 06.04.2012 23:20, schrieb Tom Boutell:
> To tell the truth I'd be more excited by a proposal to kill entirely, or more realistically, to support an alternate file
> extension that doesn't need it. That would be an interesting option
> for those who want to put "dribs and drabs of PHP sprinkled in HTML"
> completely behind them.
>
> On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 5:19 PM, Tom Boutell wrote:
>> I have to agree with that. Also: does PHP need to be a templating
>> language anymore, given excellent templating language implementations
>> in PHP, like Twig?
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 3:05 PM, John Crenshaw
>> wrote:
-Original Message-
From: Sébatien Durand [mailto:sun...@live.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 10:55 PM
To: internals@lists.php.net
Subject: [PHP-DEV] PHP as a template language
IMHO, PHP is a great template language. This is what makes it so simple
and powerful, compared to other web languages.
So far, we have ">>>
A suggestion : deprecate these old tags and replace them with a more
elegant and a shorter implementation.
For example : "<%" and "<%=" or "{%" and "{{" ?
What do you think, guys ?
>>>
>>> Honestly this is the wrong question. PHP as a template language has much
>>> larger problems than this. The difference between >> characters and entirely cosmetic. The difference relative to >> htmlentities(..., ENT_QUOTES | ENT_HTML5, 'UTF-8'); ?> however is 56
>>> characters, security, and encoding bugs.
>>>
>>> Proper handling of output escaping is standard in modern template
>>> languages. The question shouldn't be "should we add a cooler short tag?".
>>> The question should be "What needs to be done to make PHP an industry
>>> leader in template languages again?".
>>>
>>> My two cents,
>>>
>>> John Crenshaw
>>> Priacta, Inc.
>>>
>>> --
>>> PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
>>> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Tom Boutell
>> P'unk Avenue
>> 215 755 1330
>> punkave.com
>> window.punkave.com
>
>
>
--
Mit besten Grüßen, Reindl Harald
the lounge interactive design GmbH
A-1060 Vienna, Hofmühlgasse 17
CTO / software-development / cms-solutions
p: +43 (1) 595 3999 33, m: +43 (676) 40 221 40
icq: 154546673, http://www.thelounge.net/
http://www.thelounge.net/signature.asc.what.htm
signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP as a template language
To tell the truth I'd be more excited by a proposal to kill wrote:
> I have to agree with that. Also: does PHP need to be a templating
> language anymore, given excellent templating language implementations
> in PHP, like Twig?
>
> On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 3:05 PM, John Crenshaw
> wrote:
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Sébatien Durand [mailto:sun...@live.com]
>>> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 10:55 PM
>>> To: internals@lists.php.net
>>> Subject: [PHP-DEV] PHP as a template language
>>>
>>> IMHO, PHP is a great template language. This is what makes it so simple and
>>> powerful, compared to other web languages.
>>>
>>> So far, we have ">>
>>> A suggestion : deprecate these old tags and replace them with a more
>>> elegant and a shorter implementation.
>>>
>>> For example : "<%" and "<%=" or "{%" and "{{" ?
>>>
>>> What do you think, guys ?
>>
>> Honestly this is the wrong question. PHP as a template language has much
>> larger problems than this. The difference between > characters and entirely cosmetic. The difference relative to > htmlentities(..., ENT_QUOTES | ENT_HTML5, 'UTF-8'); ?> however is 56
>> characters, security, and encoding bugs.
>>
>> Proper handling of output escaping is standard in modern template languages.
>> The question shouldn't be "should we add a cooler short tag?". The question
>> should be "What needs to be done to make PHP an industry leader in template
>> languages again?".
>>
>> My two cents,
>>
>> John Crenshaw
>> Priacta, Inc.
>>
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>> PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
>> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>>
>
>
>
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> P'unk Avenue
> 215 755 1330
> punkave.com
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Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP as a template language
I have to agree with that. Also: does PHP need to be a templating
language anymore, given excellent templating language implementations
in PHP, like Twig?
On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 3:05 PM, John Crenshaw wrote:
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Sébatien Durand [mailto:sun...@live.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 10:55 PM
>> To: internals@lists.php.net
>> Subject: [PHP-DEV] PHP as a template language
>>
>> IMHO, PHP is a great template language. This is what makes it so simple and
>> powerful, compared to other web languages.
>>
>> So far, we have ">
>> A suggestion : deprecate these old tags and replace them with a more elegant
>> and a shorter implementation.
>>
>> For example : "<%" and "<%=" or "{%" and "{{" ?
>>
>> What do you think, guys ?
>
> Honestly this is the wrong question. PHP as a template language has much
> larger problems than this. The difference between characters and entirely cosmetic. The difference relative to htmlentities(..., ENT_QUOTES | ENT_HTML5, 'UTF-8'); ?> however is 56
> characters, security, and encoding bugs.
>
> Proper handling of output escaping is standard in modern template languages.
> The question shouldn't be "should we add a cooler short tag?". The question
> should be "What needs to be done to make PHP an industry leader in template
> languages again?".
>
> My two cents,
>
> John Crenshaw
> Priacta, Inc.
>
> --
> PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>
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Tom Boutell
P'unk Avenue
215 755 1330
punkave.com
window.punkave.com
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RE: [PHP-DEV] PHP as a template language
> -Original Message-
> From: Sébatien Durand [mailto:sun...@live.com]
> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 10:55 PM
> To: internals@lists.php.net
> Subject: [PHP-DEV] PHP as a template language
>
> IMHO, PHP is a great template language. This is what makes it so simple and
> powerful, compared to other web languages.
>
> So far, we have "
> A suggestion : deprecate these old tags and replace them with a more elegant
> and a shorter implementation.
>
> For example : "<%" and "<%=" or "{%" and "{{" ?
>
> What do you think, guys ?
Honestly this is the wrong question. PHP as a template language has much larger
problems than this. The difference between however is 56 characters, security, and
encoding bugs.
Proper handling of output escaping is standard in modern template languages.
The question shouldn't be "should we add a cooler short tag?". The question
should be "What needs to be done to make PHP an industry leader in template
languages again?".
My two cents,
John Crenshaw
Priacta, Inc.
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Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP as a template language
Am 06.04.2012 04:55, schrieb Sébatien Durand:
> IMHO, PHP is a great template language. This is what makes it so simple
> and powerful, compared to other web languages.
>
> So far, we have "
> A suggestion : deprecate these old tags and replace them with a more
> elegant and a shorter implementation.
>
> For example : "<%" and "<%=" or "{%" and "{{" ?
>
> What do you think, guys ?
that you calendar is broken (april 1st is over) or it was
not an april joke that i never will understand people
proposing changes only for the sake of the change
signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP as a template language
On Apr 5, 2012, at 8:22 PM, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:
> On 04/05/2012 07:55 PM, Sébatien Durand wrote:
>> IMHO, PHP is a great template language. This is what makes it so simple
>> and powerful, compared to other web languages.
>>
>> So far, we have ">
>> A suggestion : deprecate these old tags and replace them with a more
>> elegant and a shorter implementation.
>>
>> For example : "<%" and "<%=" or "{%" and "{{" ?
>>
>> What do you think, guys ?
>
> It is well past April 1.
Here's Rasmus proposing http://marc.info/?l=php-internals&m=90279104403805&w=2
Discussion ensues, and we end up with multiple tags. Too bad. ;)
Oh, and here's a list of possible possible options from back then,
taken from that thread:
1.
2.
3.
4. <% code %>
5. (1) and (3) combined using some fancy hard-to-code
scanner with dedicated XML support.
6.
7. <_ code _>
8. <: code :>
9. << code >>
10.
11.
12. <[ code ]>
13. <{ code }>
Anyway, just a brief out-of-context look at the past. Woot!
Regards,
Philip
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Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP as a template language
On 04/05/2012 07:55 PM, Sébatien Durand wrote:
> IMHO, PHP is a great template language. This is what makes it so simple
> and powerful, compared to other web languages.
>
> So far, we have "
> A suggestion : deprecate these old tags and replace them with a more
> elegant and a shorter implementation.
>
> For example : "<%" and "<%=" or "{%" and "{{" ?
>
> What do you think, guys ?
It is well past April 1.
-Rasmus
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