Re: KR> Elevator Trim Adjustment

[Chad Robertson via KRnet]

OK thank you for the information and I agree trim tabs are pretty handy I 
learned that flying a Cessna 182 I just wasn’t sure on the KR 2 this is going 
to be a new learning adventure for me so I may have lots of questions thank you 
aging 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 18, 2020, at 8:28 PM, Mark Langford via KRnet  
> wrote:
> 
> I left out the main problem with flying without a trim tabit's downright 
> dangerous.  Let go of the stick and the plane may climb or dive (think stall 
> or head to the ground) under extreme conditions.  You have to fly the plane 
> the whole time.  It's very tiring, and not something you'll want to do any 
> more than you absolutely have toespecially during your first flights
> 
> Mark Langford
> m...@n56ml.com
> http://www.n56ml.com
> Huntsville, AL
> 
> 
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Re: KR> Elevator Trim Adjustment

[Mark Langford via KRnet]

I left out the main problem with flying without a trim tabit's 
downright dangerous.  Let go of the stick and the plane may climb or 
dive (think stall or head to the ground) under extreme conditions.  You 
have to fly the plane the whole time.  It's very tiring, and not 
something you'll want to do any more than you absolutely have 
toespecially during your first flights


Mark Langford
m...@n56ml.com
http://www.n56ml.com
Huntsville, AL


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Re: KR> Elevator Trim Adjustment

[Mark Langford via KRnet]

Chad Robertson wrote:

>> I have a question about the elevator trim I am purchasing one that 
does not have any trim on it and I hear everybody talking about how 
pitch sensitive they are is adding a trim tab something I should really 
consider doing and how difficult is it going to be if I add the trim tab 
thank you in advance for the information.<<


In-flight adjustable trim tabs fine tune the tendency of the plane to 
climb or descend based on fuel load, aircraft loading, and other weight 
variables.  This is mostly up and down, but many planes also have left 
and right turn trim tabs.  Some people don't even have them, but it's a 
pain to fly a plane without it, as it's almost never happy at straight 
and level.it's usually trying to climb or descend.   It's not a big 
deal to add it, as you've seen by the web pages, but you do need to run 
a small cable back to the elevator, provide power, find a place for an 
indicator (unless it's manual and has a visible handle), that kind of 
easy stuff.


Mark Langford
m...@n56ml.com
http://www.n56ml.com
Huntsville, AL


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Re: KR> Elevator Trim Adjustment

[Chad Robertson via KRnet]

I have a question about the elevator trim I am purchasing one that does not 
have any trim on it and I hear everybody talking about how pitch sensitive they 
are is adding a trim tab something I should really consider doing and how 
difficult is it going to be if I add the trim tab thank you in advance for the 
information

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 18, 2020, at 5:51 PM, Flesner via KRnet  wrote:
> 
> On 11/18/2020 2:19 PM, Jeff Scott via KRnet wrote:
>> My reasoning follows:  The slower you go, the less effective your trim 
>> becomes.  So, for your trim to be effective enough to have a shot at landing 
>> the plane with trim only (A requirement I set for mine), you need to have a 
>> longer throw to get as much nose up trim as possible for slow speed.
> 
> +++
> 
> I've tried to control pitch with trim only to simulate loss of pitch control 
> several times.  I'm convinced it's not the length of throw, if total travel 
> is adequate,  but the speed of the actuator.  With my setup by the time I 
> start to get the change I want I've gone too far.  I get in to PIO in about 
> three cycles.  I might be able to keep from going in vertically but it's not 
> going to be a pretty sight.  I hope to never need trim to land as I doubled 
> the elevator control horn, possibly the weakest link in the pitch system and 
> the only cause of a loss of pitch control accident I'm aware of.
> 
> As far as mounting my actuator, I simply removed foam to make a cavity, glued 
> in a piece of 3/32" ply for a platform and used very tiny screws to mount.  
> It doesn't take much.
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/iyqod5cb5pmeom3/IMG_8615.JPG?dl=0
> 
> A simple cover
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/pggv503t8li98om/IMG_8613.JPG?dl=0
> 
> Larry Flesner
> 
> 
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Re: KR> Elevator Trim Adjustment

[Flesner via KRnet]

On 11/18/2020 2:19 PM, Jeff Scott via KRnet wrote:

My reasoning follows:  The slower you go, the less effective your trim becomes. 
 So, for your trim to be effective enough to have a shot at landing the plane 
with trim only (A requirement I set for mine), you need to have a longer throw 
to get as much nose up trim as possible for slow speed.


+++

I've tried to control pitch with trim only to simulate loss of pitch 
control several times.  I'm convinced it's not the length of throw, if 
total travel is adequate,  but the speed of the actuator.  With my setup 
by the time I start to get the change I want I've gone too far.  I get 
in to PIO in about three cycles.  I might be able to keep from going in 
vertically but it's not going to be a pretty sight.  I hope to never 
need trim to land as I doubled the elevator control horn, possibly the 
weakest link in the pitch system and the only cause of a loss of pitch 
control accident I'm aware of.


As far as mounting my actuator, I simply removed foam to make a cavity, 
glued in a piece of 3/32" ply for a platform and used very tiny screws 
to mount.  It doesn't take much.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/iyqod5cb5pmeom3/IMG_8615.JPG?dl=0

A simple cover

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pggv503t8li98om/IMG_8613.JPG?dl=0

Larry Flesner


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Re: KR> Elevator Trim Adjustment

[Jeff Scott via KRnet]

I used the T3-12A model in all three planes as well as the aileron trim in the 
RV.  My reasoning follows:  The slower you go, the less effective your trim 
becomes.  So, for your trim to be effective enough to have a shot at landing 
the plane with trim only (A requirement I set for mine), you need to have a 
longer throw to get as much nose up trim as possible for slow speed.  Mine 
would not have been easy to land with trim only if the elevator control rod had 
fallen off, but it certainly would have been survivable and likely could have 
done so without damaging the plane.  I never actually followed through on a 
landing with trim only, but did test it down the approach to prove it could do 
so.

-Jeff Scott
Arkansas Ozarks.

> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 at 1:12 PM
> From: "Samuel Spanovich via KRnet" 
> To: "krnet@list.krnet.org" 
> Cc: "Samuel Spanovich" 
> Subject: Re: KR> Elevator Trim Adjustment
>
> Wow, thank you very much for the quick replies; 
> 
> While I have not looked at the problem or system in detail (will get to it 
> Friday or Saturday work permitting), I can say from the few times I have 
> looked at it, the trim tab is connected to a cable (nothing special, just a 
> normal every day cable you would find in something like a go-kart throttle 
> system).  From there, the cable is tightened/loosened by a small handle that 
> can be rotated clockwise or counterclockwise.  Tightening the cable will pull 
> the trim tab down, giving you nose up trim, while loosening the cable 
> releases this pressure, which allows the trim tab to move upwards, giving you 
> essentially nose down trim.  
> 
> I never thought much about it at first (other than that it was very 
> simplified), however after hearing your guy’s replies and doing some reading 
> these past couple days, I am actually surprised that for two years now, both 
> A&P’s performing my conditional inspection made no mention of this very 
> simplistic design and signed the plane off as airworthy.  
> 
> Mostly in part to your guy’s advice, and also from reading too many good 
> reviews about the product, I am going to order one of the Ray Allen Trim 
> Systems and fix the problem once and for all.  
> 
> My next two questions (for Larry and Jeff), what model of the Ray Allen Servo 
> did you get?  I noticed there are three models: the T2-7A, T2-10A, and the 
> T3-12A, which have 17mm, 26mm, and 31mm of travel respectively.  Larry, I 
> noticed you used the T2-10A model, and it has obviously worked out for you.  
> Jeff Scott, which model did you choose?  Ray Allen recommends the T2-10A for 
> the KR-2; just wanted to see if you used anything different.  
> 
> Secondly; judging by the pictures, it appears you guys mounted the trim tab 
> in the elevator section by screwing 4x screws into the wood section in the 
> elevator. As far as actually mounting the unit goes, is that about all there 
> is to it, or is there more to the installation than that?  Before I go 
> cutting into the elevator, I want to make sure I have a solid plan of what to 
> expect.  
> 
> Again, thank you everyone for all the help; Once I receive the Ray Allen 
> System, and get to installing it, I will post back here with results.  
> 
> V/R
> 
> Sam Spanovich
> N6399U
> 74S, Anacortes WA
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Re: KR> Elevator Trim Adjustment

[Mark Langford via KRnet]

Sam,

I might as well send my link, for the "excruciating detail" version of 
the MAC (Ray Allen) trim setup also.  See 
http://www.n56ml.com/trimtab/index.html
One thing to be careful of is don't run your indicator wiring anywhere 
near an antenna cable or the radio itself, if possible, as the 
transmitter will slowly fry your indicator's LEDsone at a time. 
First the most common setting, then the next most common setting, and so 
on.  Just a little heads up from experience.on two different planes 
with the same setup.  I'm a slow learner.


See http://www.n56ml.com/trimtab/index.html

Mark Langford
m...@n56ml.com
http://www.n56ml.com
Huntsville, AL


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Re: KR> Elevator Trim Adjustment

[Samuel Spanovich via KRnet]

Wow, thank you very much for the quick replies; 

While I have not looked at the problem or system in detail (will get to it 
Friday or Saturday work permitting), I can say from the few times I have looked 
at it, the trim tab is connected to a cable (nothing special, just a normal 
every day cable you would find in something like a go-kart throttle system).  
From there, the cable is tightened/loosened by a small handle that can be 
rotated clockwise or counterclockwise.  Tightening the cable will pull the trim 
tab down, giving you nose up trim, while loosening the cable releases this 
pressure, which allows the trim tab to move upwards, giving you essentially 
nose down trim.  

I never thought much about it at first (other than that it was very 
simplified), however after hearing your guy’s replies and doing some reading 
these past couple days, I am actually surprised that for two years now, both 
A&P’s performing my conditional inspection made no mention of this very 
simplistic design and signed the plane off as airworthy.  

Mostly in part to your guy’s advice, and also from reading too many good 
reviews about the product, I am going to order one of the Ray Allen Trim 
Systems and fix the problem once and for all.  

My next two questions (for Larry and Jeff), what model of the Ray Allen Servo 
did you get?  I noticed there are three models: the T2-7A, T2-10A, and the 
T3-12A, which have 17mm, 26mm, and 31mm of travel respectively.  Larry, I 
noticed you used the T2-10A model, and it has obviously worked out for you.  
Jeff Scott, which model did you choose?  Ray Allen recommends the T2-10A for 
the KR-2; just wanted to see if you used anything different.  

Secondly; judging by the pictures, it appears you guys mounted the trim tab in 
the elevator section by screwing 4x screws into the wood section in the 
elevator. As far as actually mounting the unit goes, is that about all there is 
to it, or is there more to the installation than that?  Before I go cutting 
into the elevator, I want to make sure I have a solid plan of what to expect.  

Again, thank you everyone for all the help; Once I receive the Ray Allen 
System, and get to installing it, I will post back here with results.  

V/R

Sam Spanovich
N6399U
74S, Anacortes WA
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Re: KR> Elevator Trim Adjustment

[Sid Wood via KRnet]

I used the Nyrod system from cockpit to the elevator trim tab on my KR-2. 
This system is a type of plastic Bowden cable.  Both ends of the sheath must 
be firmly anchored to the fixed structure of the aircraft or the trim tab 
will not function properly.  The anchor point on the sheath at the 
horizontal stabilizer broke loose from its epoxy flox bond some time prior 
to rolling on first flight.  The slightest stick movement would cause the 
trim tab to move to full down deflection and stay there, resulting in max 
nose full up movement of the elevator.  That happened right at lift off on 
first flight.  The aircraft would have done an inside loop had I not caught 
it and forced the elevator down against the approximate 10 pounds back stick 
pressure.  Trim control was useless.  I made two circuits of the field in 
this condition, pushing more or less on the stick, to determine the control 
I needed for an emergency landing.
Back in the hangar the condition could be duplicated over and over until the 
broken sheath connection was found.  The fix was to clamp the sheath firmly 
with 2 Adel clamps.  Subsequent flights had smooth trim control; I could 
easily fly pitch maneuvers with just the pitch trim control.


Sid Wood
ex-Tri-gear KR-2 N6242
California, MD, USA
-

Hey guys; this weekend if the weather cooperates I am going to try to 
correct an issue that I?ve had for quite some time now.


It seems that my elevator trim is not doing its job properly. Whenever I am 
flying by myself, the plane will nose over slightly when I release the 
stick, even with full up elevator trim.  When I have a passenger, and am 
approaching gross weight, the issue is still there but not nearly as bad due 
to the CG being further aft.


I took a look at my trim last time I was up at the hangar, and even with 
full up trim, the trim tab moves a lot.  I understand it is supposed to move 
slightly as the elevator travels down and up, but this feels way more 
?loose? than anything; I can basically move the trim tab full deflection up 
and down at all times, even with full up trim.


I was curious if anybody has had this same issue, and if so, is there an 
easy fix for it?  I?ve essentially just ran out of elevator ?up? trim. 
Would this just be a matter of tightening the trim tab cable so the trim tab 
is more sturdy, or is this something aerodynamic related to the Stock KR2S 
that would require major modifications?


I do not mind having my hand on the stick the whole time, but my fear is if 
the elevator cables were to ever fail in flight, I would have zero 
redundancy for the flight controls. If my trim tab was adjusted correctly, 
and the cables were to fail, I could (in theory) use the trim tab to give me 
some influence of pitch and at least make an effort to get to a runway.


Any help would be greatly appreciated.

For reference;

-Stock KR2S; RAF48 airfoil.

~650 lbs empty

-Revmaster 2100D; battery forward of firewall

-CG is near the forward limit when completely empty.

V/R

Sam Spanovich
N6399U
74S, Anacortes WA


--



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Re: KR> Elevator Trim Adjustment

[Jeff Scott via KRnet]

If you are using the Nyrod trim as shown in the plans, it seems to be a bit 
problematic.  I installed the Mac (now Ray Allen) trim servo in my KR when I 
was building.  When I rebuilt the tail at a later date I tried a spring assist 
trim, that really didn't work.  I later retrofitted a new Ray Allen trim servo 
into the elevator and used the old Mac servo to operate the cowl flap.  Neither 
servo ever gave any issues, and have always been rock solid.

I used a similar push/pull type trim control per plans when I built my SuperCub 
Clone.  It was functional, but eventually broke while trimmed nose down.  A 
lose trim control can go into a violent flutter, which is what happened on the 
Cub.  I also converted it to a Ray Allen servo, which has served me well for 
the last 8 years.  The RV also has Ray Allen servos for both Elevator and 
Aileron trim.  It's simple and will put an end to your trim woes.  

Retrofitting the Ray Allen trim into a KR elevator is shown in reasonable 
detail on my web site at <http://jeffsplanes.com/KR/2013_Trim.html>.  I had the 
elevator off to do the retrofit, but that was just a convenience since mine was 
removable.  But it could just as well be done with the elevator still mounted.  
It would just require a lot more time laying on your back on the floor. 

-Jeff Scott
Arkansas Ozarks

> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 at 2:59 PM
> From: "Samuel Spanovich via KRnet" 
> To: krnet@list.krnet.org
> Cc: "Samuel Spanovich" 
> Subject: KR> Elevator Trim Adjustment
>
> Hey guys; this weekend if the weather cooperates I am going to try to correct 
> an issue that I’ve had for quite some time now. 
> 
> It seems that my elevator trim is not doing its job properly. Whenever I am 
> flying by myself, the plane will nose over slightly when I release the stick, 
> even with full up elevator trim.  When I have a passenger, and am approaching 
> gross weight, the issue is still there but not nearly as bad due to the CG 
> being further aft. 
> 
> I took a look at my trim last time I was up at the hangar, and even with full 
> up trim, the trim tab moves a lot.  I understand it is supposed to move 
> slightly as the elevator travels down and up, but this feels way more “loose” 
> than anything; I can basically move the trim tab full deflection up and down 
> at all times, even with full up trim.  
> 
> I was curious if anybody has had this same issue, and if so, is there an easy 
> fix for it?  I’ve essentially just ran out of elevator “up” trim.  Would this 
> just be a matter of tightening the trim tab cable so the trim tab is more 
> sturdy, or is this something aerodynamic related to the Stock KR2S that would 
> require major modifications? 
> 
> I do not mind having my hand on the stick the whole time, but my fear is if 
> the elevator cables were to ever fail in flight, I would have zero redundancy 
> for the flight controls. If my trim tab was adjusted correctly, and the 
> cables were to fail, I could (in theory) use the trim tab to give me some 
> influence of pitch and at least make an effort to get to a runway.   
> 
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> For reference; 
> 
> -Stock KR2S; RAF48 airfoil. 
> 
> ~650 lbs empty 
> 
> -Revmaster 2100D; battery forward of firewall
> 
> -CG is near the forward limit when completely empty.  
> 
> V/R
> 
> Sam Spanovich
> N6399U
> 74S, Anacortes WA
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Re: KR> Elevator Trim Adjustment

[Flesner via KRnet]

 I can basically move the trim tab full deflection up and down at all 
times, even with full up trim.


+++ 




Also, many builders / pilots misunderstand the function of the tab.  The 
tab does not control the pitch of the aircraft, it simply moves the 
elevator up or down to obtain the desired results in pitch.  The 
elevator controls the pitch of the aircraft.  If you want nose up trim, 
the tab moves down, that moves the elevator up and the nose pitches up.  
vise versa for nose down, the tab goes up.  In my photo for landing trim 
the tab moves down, elevator up for nose up trim.


Larry Flesner


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Re: KR> Elevator Trim Adjustment

[Flesner via KRnet]

On 11/17/2020 2:59 PM, Samuel Spanovich via KRnet wrote:

I took a look at my trim last time I was up at the hangar, and even with full 
up trim, the trim tab moves a lot.  I understand it is supposed to move 
slightly as the elevator travels down and up, but this feels way more “loose” 
than anything; I can basically move the trim tab full deflection up and down at 
all times, even with full up trim.


+++

If you have your pitch trim set in the cockpit your trim tab should not 
move at all when you grasp it on the elevator and try to move it.  If it 
moves at all you have a problem and I'd get it corrected before next 
flight.  It was trim tab flutter / failure that brought down the P51 at 
Reno.


I started with a trim tab lever in the cockpit and model airplane steel 
cables to the tab on the elevator.  I wasn't comfortable with the slop / 
looseness in the tab at the elevator.  I installed the Ray Allen servo 
in the elevator with a short rod to actuate the tab.  It is rock solid 
with no movement from where it is set. That is the only acceptable mode 
of operation.  No slop.  If you get rid of the slop in the system your 
trim will work.


Here is a shot of my install.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/iyqod5cb5pmeom3/IMG_8615.JPG?dl=0

here is a shot of the amount of trim I need for landing

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dn8dgb5y836j3um/IMG_8611.JPG?dl=0

another photo with cover

https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8yrzf99baj1zeg/IMG_8612.JPG?dl=0

It sounds like you have a problem of moving your trim lever but the tab 
is not following.  Whatever system you use, eliminate all slop in the 
system.  You really don't want the tab  moving either as the elevator 
travels up or down.  Only "anti-servo" tabs on the Piper stabilator does 
that to induce feedback to the control yoke.  Next time you're standing 
behind a Piper move the stabilator up and down and check it out.


Larry Flesner


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Re: KR> Elevator Trim Adjustment

[shafferj455js--- via KRnet]

Are you using the model airplane NYROD ?

-From: "Samuel Spanovich via
KRnet" 
To: krnet@list.krnet.org
Cc: "Samuel Spanovich"
Sent: Tuesday November 17 2020 4:00:00PM
Subject: KR> Elevator Trim Adjustment

 Sam Spanovich
 N6399U
 74S, Anacortes WA
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KR> Elevator Trim Adjustment

[Samuel Spanovich via KRnet]

Hey guys; this weekend if the weather cooperates I am going to try to correct 
an issue that I’ve had for quite some time now. 

It seems that my elevator trim is not doing its job properly. Whenever I am 
flying by myself, the plane will nose over slightly when I release the stick, 
even with full up elevator trim.  When I have a passenger, and am approaching 
gross weight, the issue is still there but not nearly as bad due to the CG 
being further aft. 

I took a look at my trim last time I was up at the hangar, and even with full 
up trim, the trim tab moves a lot.  I understand it is supposed to move 
slightly as the elevator travels down and up, but this feels way more “loose” 
than anything; I can basically move the trim tab full deflection up and down at 
all times, even with full up trim.  

I was curious if anybody has had this same issue, and if so, is there an easy 
fix for it?  I’ve essentially just ran out of elevator “up” trim.  Would this 
just be a matter of tightening the trim tab cable so the trim tab is more 
sturdy, or is this something aerodynamic related to the Stock KR2S that would 
require major modifications? 

I do not mind having my hand on the stick the whole time, but my fear is if the 
elevator cables were to ever fail in flight, I would have zero redundancy for 
the flight controls. If my trim tab was adjusted correctly, and the cables were 
to fail, I could (in theory) use the trim tab to give me some influence of 
pitch and at least make an effort to get to a runway.   

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

For reference; 

-Stock KR2S; RAF48 airfoil. 

~650 lbs empty 

-Revmaster 2100D; battery forward of firewall

-CG is near the forward limit when completely empty.  

V/R

Sam Spanovich
N6399U
74S, Anacortes WA
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Re: KR> Elevator and rudder cable tension

[n357cj via KRnet]

Hey Pete,
When i was finishing up I actually bought a cable tension tool. There is just a 
bit  to much give in systems at least with pullys and aluminum brackets to use 
the tension gage. I ended up just making it as tight as I could with out 
causing any undo distortion on any bracket or pulley. I call it the tang test. 
The cables should give a low resonance. I have not retensioned anything in  a 
1000 hours. I do check pretty often just to reassure myself.
Joe Horton, 
N357Cj
- Original Message -
From: "KRnet" 
To: "KRnet" 
Cc: "Pete Klapp" 
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2019 6:44:39 PM
Subject: KR> Elevator and rudder cable tension

Netters
Any thoughts on cable tension? All cables both elevator and rudder are straight 
pulls, no pulleys in the systems.
Any information gladly appreciated, thanks in advance.
Pete Klapp, N729PK
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KR> Elevator and rudder cable tension

[Pete Klapp via KRnet]

Netters
Any thoughts on cable tension? All cables both elevator and rudder are straight 
pulls, no pulleys in the systems.
Any information gladly appreciated, thanks in advance.
Pete Klapp, N729PK
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Re: KR> elevator size...

[bruis--- via KRnet]

OK  Thanks.  

From: Ken Hurley via KRnet
Sent: Monday, 15 May 2017 9:50 a.m.
To: KRnet
Cc: Ken Hurley
Subject: Re: KR> elevator size...

Vinyl tape, a thin piece of metal screwed for attachment. Needs to be
removable for inspections.

On May 14, 2017 3:03 PM, "bruis via KRnet"  wrote:

Dumn question im sure but as ive never seen a rand with the wings on...is
the wing to fuselage gap normally glassed over or is some way left to get
at bolts to remove wings?




Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone. Original message
From: Gary via KRnet  Date: 15/05/2017  7:50
am  (GMT+12:00) To: KRnet  Cc: Gary <
gary76...@verizon.net> Subject: KR> elevator size...
Confession timeI probably built my elevator a little larger than
need to be.  It seems to be very sensitive in pitch to stick movement
and of course it gets worse the faster you go.  I have already taken
some of the travel/leverage out.  From the standard KR2 (stretched
fuselage 14 inches) plans, what has been the experience with elevator
size and pitch sensitivity?  Should I just make the elevator exactly to
plan size?  What are your trailing edges like?  (Blunt, round, sharp?)
Have you experienced any difference?



--
*Gary *
/Soli Deo Gloria/
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Re: KR> elevator size...

[Ken Hurley via KRnet]

Vinyl tape, a thin piece of metal screwed for attachment. Needs to be
removable for inspections.

On May 14, 2017 3:03 PM, "bruis via KRnet"  wrote:

Dumn question im sure but as ive never seen a rand with the wings on...is
the wing to fuselage gap normally glassed over or is some way left to get
at bolts to remove wings?




Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone. Original message
From: Gary via KRnet  Date: 15/05/2017  7:50
am  (GMT+12:00) To: KRnet  Cc: Gary <
gary76...@verizon.net> Subject: KR> elevator size...
Confession timeI probably built my elevator a little larger than
need to be.  It seems to be very sensitive in pitch to stick movement
and of course it gets worse the faster you go.  I have already taken
some of the travel/leverage out.  From the standard KR2 (stretched
fuselage 14 inches) plans, what has been the experience with elevator
size and pitch sensitivity?  Should I just make the elevator exactly to
plan size?  What are your trailing edges like?  (Blunt, round, sharp?)
Have you experienced any difference?



--
*Gary *
/Soli Deo Gloria/
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Re: KR> elevator size...

[Gary via KRnet]

On 5/14/2017 3:02 PM, bruis via KRnet wrote:

Dumn question im sure but as ive never seen a rand with the wings on...is the 
wing to fuselage gap normally glassed over or is some way left to get at bolts 
to remove wings?




Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone. Original message From: Gary via KRnet 
 Date: 15/05/2017  7:50 am  (GMT+12:00) To: KRnet 
 Cc: Gary  Subject: KR> elevator size...
Confession timeI probably built my elevator a little larger than
need to be.  It seems to be very sensitive in pitch to stick movement
and of course it gets worse the faster you go.  I have already taken
some of the travel/leverage out.  From the standard KR2 (stretched
fuselage 14 inches) plans, what has been the experience with elevator
size and pitch sensitivity?  Should I just make the elevator exactly to
plan size?  What are your trailing edges like?  (Blunt, round, sharp?)
Have you experienced any difference?




Leave access to bolts to remove wings and inspection.

--
*Gary *
/Soli Deo Gloria/
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Re: KR> elevator size...

[Ken Hurley via KRnet]

So size does matter? 😁

On May 14, 2017 2:51 PM, "Gary via KRnet"  wrote:

> Confession timeI probably built my elevator a little larger than need
> to be.  It seems to be very sensitive in pitch to stick movement and of
> course it gets worse the faster you go.  I have already taken some of the
> travel/leverage out.  From the standard KR2 (stretched fuselage 14 inches)
> plans, what has been the experience with elevator size and pitch
> sensitivity?  Should I just make the elevator exactly to plan size?  What
> are your trailing edges like?  (Blunt, round, sharp?)  Have you experienced
> any difference?
>
>
>
> --
> *Gary *
> /Soli Deo Gloria/
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Re: KR> elevator size...

[bruis via KRnet]

Dumn question im sure but as ive never seen a rand with the wings on...is the 
wing to fuselage gap normally glassed over or is some way left to get at bolts 
to remove wings?




Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone. Original message From: 
Gary via KRnet  Date: 15/05/2017  7:50 am  (GMT+12:00) 
To: KRnet  Cc: Gary  Subject: KR> 
elevator size... 
Confession timeI probably built my elevator a little larger than 
need to be.  It seems to be very sensitive in pitch to stick movement 
and of course it gets worse the faster you go.  I have already taken 
some of the travel/leverage out.  From the standard KR2 (stretched 
fuselage 14 inches) plans, what has been the experience with elevator 
size and pitch sensitivity?  Should I just make the elevator exactly to 
plan size?  What are your trailing edges like?  (Blunt, round, sharp?)  
Have you experienced any difference?



-- 
*Gary *
/Soli Deo Gloria/
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KR> elevator size...

[Gary via KRnet]

Confession timeI probably built my elevator a little larger than 
need to be.  It seems to be very sensitive in pitch to stick movement 
and of course it gets worse the faster you go.  I have already taken 
some of the travel/leverage out.  From the standard KR2 (stretched 
fuselage 14 inches) plans, what has been the experience with elevator 
size and pitch sensitivity?  Should I just make the elevator exactly to 
plan size?  What are your trailing edges like?  (Blunt, round, sharp?)  
Have you experienced any difference?




--
*Gary *
/Soli Deo Gloria/
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Re: KR> Elevator travel

[Pete Klapp via KRnet]

Netters

Check page 59 in the manual. Aileron is +20 and -10 deg, Elevator is +30 and 
-20 deg, and the Rudder is +30 deg left and right.

Pete Klapp, building N729PK,

Canton, Ohio



From: KRnet  on behalf of Paul Visk via KRnet 

Sent: Tuesday, January 3, 2017 8:52 AM
To: KRnet
Cc: Paul Visk
Subject: Re: KR> Elevator travel

I not totally sure. I think it's 20 up and 10 down.

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list ...



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KR> Elevator trim fixed

[codylee.cramer via KRnet]

I have the manual I just didn't have it with me when I asked the question. I 
have the manual back in my possesion now so thank you all for the responses.


Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
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Re: KR> Elevator travel

[Chris Gardiner via KRnet]

page 59 of the KR manual shows 30 degrees UP and 20 degrees DOWN for elevator .
Go with what is published. Works fine.
Regards
Chris Gardiner

Sent from my iPad

> On Jan 3, 2017, at 8:52 AM, Paul Visk via KRnet  wrote:
> 
> I not totally sure. I think it's 20 up and 10 down.  I would look it up on 
> the drawings.
> 
> Paul Visk Belleville Il.
> 618-406-4705
>  Original message From: Larry Flesner via KRnet 
>  Date: 1/3/17  7:35 AM  (GMT-06:00) To: KRnet 
>  Cc: Larry Flesner  Subject: Re: 
> KR> Elevator travel 
> 
> 
>>   I am trying to get my elevator angles set what is a good degree of 
>> travel up and down.
> 
> +++
> 
> The angles for all the control surfaces are in the manual.  If you 
> don't have a copy you should.  If not, I'm sure someone will post 
> them for you.  My plans aren't handy at the moment.
> 
> Larry Flesner
> 
> 
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Re: KR> Elevator travel

[Paul Visk via KRnet]

I not totally sure. I think it's 20 up and 10 down.  I would look it up on the 
drawings.

Paul Visk Belleville Il.
618-406-4705
 Original message From: Larry Flesner via KRnet 
 Date: 1/3/17  7:35 AM  (GMT-06:00) To: KRnet 
 Cc: Larry Flesner  Subject: Re: 
KR> Elevator travel 


>  I am trying to get my elevator angles set what is a good degree of 
> travel up and down.

+++

The angles for all the control surfaces are in the manual.  If you 
don't have a copy you should.  If not, I'm sure someone will post 
them for you.  My plans aren't handy at the moment.

Larry Flesner


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Re: KR> Elevator travel

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

 I am trying to get my elevator angles set what is a good degree of 
travel up and down.


+++

The angles for all the control surfaces are in the manual.  If you 
don't have a copy you should.  If not, I'm sure someone will post 
them for you.  My plans aren't handy at the moment.


Larry Flesner


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KR> Elevator travel

[codylee.cramer via KRnet]

Im seeing the archives are still down so maybe you guys can help me. I am 
trying to get my elevator angles set what is a good degree of travel up and 
down I'm fighting my creation at the moment I think it has to many adjustment 
points so my next step is to zero one and try setting angles with the up and 
down barrels. 
Cody CramerMiddleburg, Fl


Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
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KR> Elevator control cables.

[Daniel Heath]

You are making a parallelogram.  Therefore the opposing sides must be of
equal length.  Also the pivot point must be in the center of the fore and
aft sides.  In my plans, the stick end was not the same length as the end at
the elevator.  Be sure this is not the case with yours and if it is, adjust
accordingly.



As long as the above is true, the position of the elevator and stick is not
relevant.



Dan Heath



-Original Message-
I like to know if the two cables need to be the same lengths?



Should the elevator be in the down position or up position to install the
cables?



Everyone is welcome to help with some instruction.

KR> Elevator control cables.

[ml at n56ml.com]

And keep in mind that there should be an adjustable turnbuckle in each
of those two cables, set to a neutral position, for adjustment in stick
location and to get the cable tension right.

Mark Langford, Harvest, AL
ML "at" N56ML.com
www.N56ML.com

KR> Elevator control cables.

[Larry Flesner]

At 08:53 AM 6/22/2016, you wrote:
>Hi: I need some help on how to install the elevator control cables. I am
>building a stock KR2, using cables for the elevator just like the plans.
>I like to know if the two cables need to be the same lengths?
>Should the elevator be in the down position or up position to install
>the cables?
>Everyone is welcome to help with some instruction.
>
>Larry Elrod
++

A tape measure may be close enough but you could use some type of 
string that doesn't stretch under tension to determine the 
length.  They  will be similar in length but remember to allow for 
any connecting fittings on each end and a turnbuckle at the stick end 
for final tensioning.   Make the measurement with the elevator in 
neutral position although any position would work if the stick is in 
the same position for that elevator deflection.  Neutral at both ends 
gives you least chance for error.  Try not to assume this is more 
complicated than it is.

Larry Flesner

KR> Elevator control cables.

[Elrod, Larry Ann Arbor]

Hi: I need some help on how to install the elevator control cables. I am
building a stock KR2, using cables for the elevator just like the plans.

I like to know if the two cables need to be the same lengths?

Should the elevator be in the down position or up position to install
the cables?

Everyone is welcome to help with some instruction.



Thanks

Larry Elrod

KR> elevator splice sketch enclosed (hopefully)

[Mark Langford]

Here's the lap joint I mentioned earlier...hopefully enclosed.
-- 
Mark Langford
ML at N56ML.com
http://www.n56ml.com

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KR> Elevator safety wire or?

[stefkr2 at kpnmail.nl]

Hi kr friends,
Whe are almost so far to install the elevator for final. What did you all 
dois a locknut at the 3 hinge points enough?, should I work with loctite 
And a locknut or with a safetywire.
The Safety wire or splitting pin is very hard to install. 
What do you all have?
Thanks Stef

--
Steph and his dad are building the KR-2S see   
http://www.masttotaalconcept.nl/kr2

KR> Elevator safety wire or?

[Rob Schmitt]

I used a Castle nut with cotter pin on the hinge points. You want then to
rotate, so you don't want these too tight, but you also don't want them to
loosen, so you have the cotter pin. True these can be hard to install. I
have cut outs from the bottom to install, access and inspect. No one sees
them below. 

Rob Schmitt
N1852Z

-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of stefkr2---
via KRnet
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 11:32 AM
To: Kr net Kr net 
Cc: stefkr2 at kpnmail.nl
Subject: KR> Elevator safety wire or?

Hi kr friends,
Whe are almost so far to install the elevator for final. What did you all
dois a locknut at the 3 hinge points enough?, should I work with loctite
And a locknut or with a safetywire.
The Safety wire or splitting pin is very hard to install. 
What do you all have?
Thanks Stef

--
Steph and his dad are building the KR-2S see
http://www.masttotaalconcept.nl/kr2



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KR> Elevator moment.

[Phillip Matheson]

  What are some average stick moments from a full up to full down given an 
average stick length.
--

I would stick with the plans and set max movement by adding a stop that does 
not load the elevator.

So place a stop at the stick to get your 30 & 20 deg.

Phil Matheson


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KR> Elevator movement

[Mark Langford]

Paul Visk wrote:

>You'll notice he has adjustment holes in his lever that is welded to his 
>collar.

Yep, those collars are a wonderful way to fasten a bellcrank to a tube.  They 
sell them at McMaster Carr, called "shaft collars".   Of course it can be 
welded, but the collar allows easy adjustment, and there's no way it'll ever 
slip with these low loads on it.  I put three holes in several bellcranks so I 
could experiment with stick forces and stick throw, but like everything else, I 
simply adapted to it quickly and never changed it from the middle hole.  The 
stick is detailed at http://www.n56ml.com/kcontrol.html .

That's kind of like the tachometer.  After my third Tiny Tach croaked with only 
a few hours on the plane, I gave up on it and starting using the tach display 
on the EIS on the far right side of the panel.  When I was designing the plane 
I wanted the tach right in front of me, hence the Tiny Tach, but I quickly got 
used to the tach in the EIS, and never noticed it afterwards.

I put another hour on N891JF yesterday, practicing stalls induced by 
full-rudder slips while simulating glides to landing (at 4500').  I wanted to 
put an indicated airspeed number on where that happens, so I'd know what to 
avoid on final.  It turned out that I got a pretty good wing drop at about 10 
mph higher than a ball-centered stall, which is not surprising considering how 
low the wing was to start with.  It recovered very easily, and I didn't lose 
much altitude, but I can see how if my reactions had been a bit slower, it 
could have been a quick stall/spin entry.  N891JF has a forward CG though, so 
I'm not too worried about that.  I do plan to increase horizontal and vertical 
stabilizer sizes one of these days though.  It'll be interesting to see if 
there's any discernible speed difference.  I'm betting it'll be a barely 
noticeable speed difference, if that.

Mark Langford, Harvest, AL
ML at N56ML.com 
www.N56ML.com  

KR> Elevator movement

[ppaulvsk]

All of my four bell cranks/ levers are a 1:1 ratio. ?Changing one to 1:1.5 or 
whatever ?would decrease the force on that pushrods with the increase in travel 
of the stick. ?
I used Mark's concept to designed my own system. ?If you look at his dual stick 
design. You'll noticed he has adjustment holes in his lever that is welded to 
his collar. ?So I take it he was planning on making ?adjustments if needed. ?He 
ended up with using his main spar and his seat for stops. ?If I should be so 
lucky. ?Your performance may differ.

Paul Visk
Belleville Il
618-406-4705

Sent on the new Sprint Network from my Samsung Galaxy S?4.

 Original message From: gluejam via KRnet 
 Date:01/28/2015  11:29 PM  (GMT-06:00) 
To: KRnet  Subject: KR> Elevator 
movement 

*/Larry said, "That might throw off the harmony and stick forces between 
the elevator and ailerons requiring more or less movement or stick 
forces in pitch or roll.  I'd recommend sticking with the designed 
geometry."

/*That brings up a question I have been wondering about:  As designed, 
how sensitive are the control inputs, and how harmonious are they in 
pitch and roll?   I seem to recall that others have stated that the KR 1 
and 2 are quite sensitive in pitch, at least. If true, and if most are 
built to plan specs for horn lengths and so forth, maybe a little 
alteration might be in order - so long as full deflection is readily 
available without undue stick movement?I realize the stretch version 
may have alleviated some of that reputation in pitch, and builder 
changes in surface area as variations from plans may do so also.

But, why have to fly with fingertips only if a bit of ratio change would 
make it easier?Someone educate me, please.

(second guessing myself, since the cockpits are so tight perhaps stick 
movement was intentionally restricted?)

George


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KR> Elevator movement

[gluejam]

*/Larry said, "That might throw off the harmony and stick forces between 
the elevator and ailerons requiring more or less movement or stick 
forces in pitch or roll.  I'd recommend sticking with the designed 
geometry."

/*That brings up a question I have been wondering about:  As designed, 
how sensitive are the control inputs, and how harmonious are they in 
pitch and roll?   I seem to recall that others have stated that the KR 1 
and 2 are quite sensitive in pitch, at least. If true, and if most are 
built to plan specs for horn lengths and so forth, maybe a little 
alteration might be in order - so long as full deflection is readily 
available without undue stick movement?I realize the stretch version 
may have alleviated some of that reputation in pitch, and builder 
changes in surface area as variations from plans may do so also.

But, why have to fly with fingertips only if a bit of ratio change would 
make it easier?Someone educate me, please.

(second guessing myself, since the cockpits are so tight perhaps stick 
movement was intentionally restricted?)

George


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KR> Elevator moment.

[Flesner]

>  If I reposition one of the push rods to use this extra movement. I 
> can reduce the elevator sensitivity.

++

That might throw off the harmony and stick forces between the 
elevator and ailerons requiring more or less movement or stick forces 
in pitch or roll.  I'd recommend sticking with the designed geometry.

Control surface stops should all be at the input source (stick and 
rudder pedals)  and not at the control surfaces.  This insures that 
only air loads are felt on the system and not input forces.  It's 
also nice to make the stops adjustable as in a bolt head being the 
hard point with a locking nut to hold the adjustment.  When you see 
the ground rushing up at you, pulling back on the stick so hard that 
you break something in the control system is not the way out of a bad 
situation. :-)

Larry Flesner

KR> Elevator moment.

[ppaulvsk]

First off, Thank you Ron. It was my pleasure. It's always a good idea to have 
other people look at your project. ?Last week I had one of our chapter tech 
advisors come over a couple of weeks ago. ?
Back to eleivators. ?I was working on my 30 deg up and 20 deg down stops.
I noticed I have a lot of extra movement avaliable in my stick ( Mark design). 
If I reposition one of the push rods to use this extra movement. I can reduce 
the elevator sensitivity.?
My question. ?What are some average stick moments from a full up to full down 
given an average stick length.

Paul Visk
Belleville Il
618-406-4705



Sent on the new Sprinetwork from my Samsung Galaxy S?4.

KR> elevator trim tab

[Mark Langford]

  John Bouyea  wrote:
> >>During my entire flight today, I had to hold forward pressure on the 
> stick. ...That leaves the trim tab "neutral position" is set 
> incorrectly or it's just too darn small...Can anyone comment on facing 
> & curing the same problem in their KR?<< 
The first time I flew N891JF, the plane pulled  down and right.  The 
elevator trim tab cable housing  had broken so I had "fixed" it inline 
with the elevator with a pair of #2 screws and four large-diameter 
washers.  Once I got to altitude I let go of the stick and it nose dived 
down and to the right, in a pretty dramatic fashion.  Previously, it had 
been flown with "full up" trim on the tab, and once I fixed it straight, 
the plane behaved as it would without the tab.  Before I flew it again, 
I added a trim tab to both elevator and rudder.   I took a piece of 
.020" 2024 aluminum and cut out a 6" x 2.5" piece and bent it so that I 
would have a 1.5" trim tab, leaving an inch to fasten it to the 
elevator.  I then drilled two holes through the trailing edge of the 
elevator (on the other side from the movable tab) and secured the tab to 
the bottom with two #4 screws and large-diameter washers.

  My tab is bent at about 35 degrees, but once fastened to the bottom, 
it is effectively a 25 degree tab.   It now flies hands off straight 
ahead and level, and now that I've replaced the nyrod cable from servo 
to elevator, the trim works great and is only used in a narrow band 
around "stick neutral". In your case, you would probably want to mount 
it on top of the elevator instead so the forces aren't trying to rip the 
screws out so badly, and it wouldn't need quite so much angle on it.
See http://www.n56ml.com/n891jf/trim_tab.jpg for details.  This can be 
done in twenty minutes...nothing like reworking the horizontal 
stabilizer angle, and the difference in speed would be unmeasurable, in 
my guesstimation.

Having said all this, rechecking weight and balance calculations might 
be prudent!

I flew to Corvair College in Barnwell S.C. Friday and returned today.  
It was good to see Joe, Dan, Chris, and other KR builders there, and 
lots of folks building and testing their Corvair engines under the eye 
of William Wynne  and other experienced engine builders.

And it's nice to have a time machine that allows me to fly 320 miles in 
2 hours and 15 minutes!  I burned 3.3 gph @145 mph at 11,500' in the 
cruise phase on the way there, and the same on the way back at 
10,500'...44 mpg.145 mph is about all it'll do at those 
altitudes...it was wide open, although I didn't have a spinner on 
it...I'm using it as a mold to make a fiberglass one.  I've really got 
to hook a heater up in that thing...

Mark Langford
ML at N56ML.com
http://www.n56ml.com

KR> Elevator counter balance weight

[Mark Langford]

Another data point on elevator balancing is that Troy Petteway deleted his
elevator balance when he lengthened his horizontal stabilizer and decreased
the length of his elevators. I know he's done over 230 mph that way, so it's
looking like that's been pretty well tested. See the fourth picture down at
http://www.n56ml.com/troy/  for exactly what he did.   He reports a big
improvement in the pitch sensitivity situation with these two simple changes
(tail dimensions, although deleting the weight back there would have
contributed as well).

I've done 235 mph or so, with the "new tail" airfoils but mine is still
balanced.  Given what I  know now, I may not balance the elevator on my next
plane...

Mark Langford, Harvest, AL
ML at N56ML.com
www.N56ML.com  

KR> Elevator counter balance weight

[Rob Schmitt]

It would be great to see other KRs here at OSH. I got to fly my KR2s in the 
Homebuilders review on Weds as part of the airshow, so we certainly get plenty 
of recognition in the EAA community. I head home Saturday.

Thanks,

Rob




> On Aug 1, 2014, at 8:58 AM, Sidney wood  wrote:
> 
> True, however I am more comfortable knowing that is one less thing to flutter.
> I did visit your KR on the Home Built line at OSH: Nice!  Perhaps mine will 
> make it there next year.
> Regards, Sid
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Aug 1, 2014, at 8:30 AM, Rob Schmitt  wrote:
>> 
>> Sid,
>> 
>> You could remove that weight and improve your tail heavy weight and balance 
>> issue.
>> 
>> Rob Schmitt
>> N1852Z
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jul 31, 2014, at 9:02 PM, Sidney wood via KRnet >> list.krnet.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> My KR-2 has a single 2.6 pound counter weight on a remote 18-inch arm 
>>> mounted in the fuselage for 100 percent balancing of the elevator.
>>> Sid Wood Tri-gear KR-2
>>> Mechanicsville, MD, USA
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
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KR> Elevator counter balance weight

[Sidney wood]

True, however I am more comfortable knowing that is one less thing to flutter.
I did visit your KR on the Home Built line at OSH: Nice!  Perhaps mine will 
make it there next year.
Regards, Sid

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 1, 2014, at 8:30 AM, Rob Schmitt  wrote:
> 
> Sid,
> 
> You could remove that weight and improve your tail heavy weight and balance 
> issue.
> 
> Rob Schmitt
> N1852Z
> 
> 
>> On Jul 31, 2014, at 9:02 PM, Sidney wood via KRnet  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> My KR-2 has a single 2.6 pound counter weight on a remote 18-inch arm 
>> mounted in the fuselage for 100 percent balancing of the elevator.
>> Sid Wood Tri-gear KR-2
>> Mechanicsville, MD, USA
>> 
>> ___
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>> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
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>> options

KR> Elevator counter balance weight

[Rob Schmitt]

Sid,

You could remove that weight and improve your tail heavy weight and balance 
issue.

Rob Schmitt
N1852Z


> On Jul 31, 2014, at 9:02 PM, Sidney wood via KRnet  
> wrote:
> 
> My KR-2 has a single 2.6 pound counter weight on a remote 18-inch arm mounted 
> in the fuselage for 100 percent balancing of the elevator.
> Sid Wood Tri-gear KR-2
> Mechanicsville, MD, USA
> 
> ___
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> options

KR> Elevator counter balance weight

[Sidney wood]

My KR-2 has a single 2.6 pound counter weight on a remote 18-inch arm mounted 
in the fuselage for 100 percent balancing of the elevator.
Sid Wood Tri-gear KR-2
Mechanicsville, MD, USA

KR> Elevator trim hinge

[Paul Visk]

Sent on the new Sprint Network from my Samsung Galaxy S?4.

 Original message From: Dan Heath  Date:07/30/2014  5:37 AM  (GMT-05:00) To: 
'Paul Visk'  Subject: RE: KR> Elevator trim 
hinge 
Paul,

Are you looking for the HINGE that holds the tab to the elevator and that it 
moves on?  If so, just get a piece of small piano hinge from Wicks.

My Panther Building Documentation at PantherBuilder Web Site

Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC

From: Paul Visk [mailto:ppaulvsk at aol.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 8:53 PM
To: Dan Heath; 'KRnet'
Subject: RE: KR> Elevator trim hinge


It looks like 1/4" and 3/16" will work for the sizes. Is Nylaflow stiff enough 
for a trim tab hinge?

Paul Visk
Belleville Il
618 406 4705

Sent on the new Sprint Network from my Samsung Galaxy S?4.


 Original message 
From: Dan Heath
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date:07/29/2014 8:27 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: 'Paul Visk' ,'KRnet'
Subject: RE: KR> Elevator trim hinge

I get 1/4" nylaflow and others, from both AS and Wicks.  You need to know what 
the ID is and they come in various wall thicknesses.

KR> Elevator trim hinge

[Pete Klapp]

PaulContact AeroTech hobby shop, 902 N. Main, North Canton, OH 44720. 
330-499-1300.Pete Klapp, building N729PK,Canton, OH

> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 18:25:57 -0500
> To: krnet at list.krnet.org
> Subject: KR> Elevator trim hinge
> From: krnet at list.krnet.org
> 
> 
> Does anyone have a source for some  1/4" tubing and the rod that goes into it 
> for the hinge on the elivator trim tab. I"ve looked in some hobby stores. But 
> all I can find is  5/32" with a rod that would fit into it. The plans call 
> for   1/4". 
> 
> Paul Visk
> Belleville Il
> 618 406 4705
> 
> Sent on the new Sprint Network from my Samsung Galaxy S?4.
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
> To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
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> options

KR> Elevator trim hinge

[Flesner]

go to the hardware store, like ACE or similar, and find the "hobby" 
material like dowels, balsa wood, small lightweight brass and 
aluminum tubing.  Select  an aluminum tube in the quarter inch range 
and then get the tube that it slips inside of with no slop.  I'd use 
thin wall aluminum and not any kind of plastic or nylon, IMHO...

Larry Flesner 

KR> Elevator trim hinge

[Dan Heath]

I get 1/4" nylaflow and others, from both AS and Wicks.  You need to know what 
the ID is and they come in various wall thicknesses.



See N64KR at  <http://krbuilder.org/> http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the 
pics 



Peoples Choice at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il ? MVN 

Best KR at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il ? MVN 

Best Interior at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il ? MVN 

Best Paint at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il ? MVN 

Best Firwwall Forward at 2013 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il ? MVN 



Best Interior and Panel at 2008 ? KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN





Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC





-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Paul Visk via 
KRnet
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 7:26 PM
To: KR EMAIL BOARD
Subject: KR> Elevator trim hinge





Does anyone have a source for some  1/4" tubing and the rod that goes into it 
for the hinge on the elivator trim tab. I"ve looked in some hobby stores. But 
all I can find is  5/32" with a rod that would fit into it. The plans call for  
 1/4". 



Paul Visk

Belleville Il

618 406 4705



Sent on the new Sprint Network from my Samsung Galaxy S?4.

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KR> Elevator trim hinge

[Paul Visk]

It looks like 1/4" and 3/16" will work for the sizes. Is Nylaflow stiff enough 
for a trim tab hinge?

Paul Visk
Belleville Il
618 406 4705

Sent on the new Sprint Network from my Samsung Galaxy S?4.

 Original message From: Dan Heath  Date:07/29/2014  8:27 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: 
'Paul Visk' ,'KRnet'  
Subject: RE: KR> Elevator trim hinge 
I get 1/4" nylaflow and others, from both AS and Wicks.  You need to know 
what the ID is and they come in various wall thicknesses.

KR> Elevator trim hinge

[Paul Visk]

Does anyone have a source for some ?1/4" tubing and the rod that goes into it 
for the hinge on the elivator trim tab. I"ve looked in some hobby stores. But 
all I can find is ?5/32" with a rod that would fit into it. The plans call for 
? 1/4".?

Paul Visk
Belleville Il
618 406 4705

Sent on the new Sprint Network from my Samsung Galaxy S?4.

KR> Elevator weights advise

[cruz...@frontiernet.net via KRnet]

With the horns just foam will they be strong enough to support the weight? or 
should I just add the weight off the push rod like Mark did. How much weight 
are we talking about?? I'm using the new? tail.?

I built the wider tail on N3151K and ?need ~ 4.5 pounds to statically balance 
my elevator without primer and paint. 2.5 pounds on each horn right now 
.Probably a little more when painted..

Joe Cruz
cruzj12 at frontiernet.net
KR1.5 ? ? N3151K
KR2S ? builder...fiber glassing main wing
On Monday, May 5, 2014 9:15 AM, "ppaulvsk at aol.com via KRnet"  wrote:



I can't decide where to put my elevator counter weights. I'm adding three inche 
foam horns to the elevator and covering? the hole thing? with carbon fiber.? 
With the horns just foam will they be strong enough to support the weight? or 
should I just add the weight off the push rod like Mark did. How much weight 
are we talking about?? I'm using the new? tail.? 

Paul Visk
Belleville Il
618-406-4705

Sent from my HTC on the Now Network from Sprint!
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KR> Elevator weights advise

[ppaul...@aol.com via KRnet]

I can't decide where to put my elevator counter weights. I'm adding three inche 
foam horns to the elevator and covering  the hole thing  with carbon fiber.  
With the horns just foam will they be strong enough to support the weight  or 
should I just add the weight off the push rod like Mark did. How much weight 
are we talking about?  I'm using the new  tail.  

Paul Visk
Belleville Il
618-406-4705

Sent from my HTC on the Now Network from Sprint!

KR> elevator hinges per plans or double up on hinges

[Mark Jones]

Here is a link to the rod end bearings.
http://www.n56ml.com/dean_hinge/


Mark Jones (N886MJ)
Stevens Point, WI
E-mail: flyk...@charter.net
Web: www.flykr2s.com






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KR> elevator hinges per plans or double up on hinges

[Larry&Sallie Flesner]

At 11:25 PM 12/20/2012, you wrote:
>are most builders using plans for elevator, rudder hinges or are 
>they doubling up on hinges.

++

The number of elevator hinges per plans is adequate. Add a third 
hinge to the rudder.  Can't advise on brand of rod end bearings but 
get reasonable quality with reasonable price.  If your wing is not 
yet built, go with the new airfoil.  Go with "Dr.Dean" hinges on 
elevator and rudder or ,if using plans aluminum hinges, build in a 
thin nylon bushing before they are installed.

Larry Flesner

KR> Elevator removal....

[phill.h...@gmail.com]

How would you build it so it could be removed? You'd have to either install  
some sort of removable section in the aft spar of the VS or push the  
elevator behind the aforementioned spar. (thinking) OR build the elevator  
to come apart in two pieces.


On , Dan Heath  wrote:
> It depends on how you build it. If you build to be able to remove it, then


> you can. If you build it by the plans, then the only way to remove it is  
> to


> cut.





> See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics


> See you at the 2012 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il ? MVN ? 40th


> Anniversary


> There is a time for building and it is over.


> Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC


> http://www.krbuilder.org/MyUSA/











> -Original Message-


> Is it not possible to remove the elevator once installed








> ___


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KR> Elevator removal....

[Dan Heath]

It depends on how you build it.  If you build to be able to remove it, then
you can.  If you build it by the plans, then the only way to remove it is to
cut.

See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics 
See you at the 2012 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il – MVN – 40th
Anniversary
There is a time for building and it is over.
Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC
http://www.krbuilder.org/MyUSA/



-Original Message-
Is it not possible to remove the elevator once installed 

KR> Elevator removal....

[phill.h...@gmail.com]

Is it not possible to remove the elevator once installed?...without cutting  
something or building a new one? Really?

KR> Elevator counterbalance

[phillip matheson]

My first KR2 had the Mark Langford design counter balance, My currant 
project I would like the balance tabs as part of the elevator. I have see 
some added as extras, buy to save looking through heaps of web pages, where 
can I find a more conventual design, like the RV or similar


Phil Matheson
SAAA Ch 37
http://www.philskr2.50megs.com/
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KR> Elevator

[Lee Van Dyke]

I concur,  Jeffs way would be easier and better

Lee Van Dyke

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 25, 2010, at 11:24 PM, "Jeff Scott"   
wrote:

> When I rebuilt the tail on my KR to enlarge the stab and elevator, I  
> built my elevator as two pieces and inserted each half in from the  
> side, then sandwiched them together between two aluminum plates.   
> There are several pictures at , follow the  
> KR links. When Lee Van Dyke rebuilt his KR, I believe he cut the  
> vertical spar out in order to replace the elevator, then rebuilt the  
> vertical spar.  You'll spend more time fretting about it than doing  
> the job.  Devise a plan that you can see start to finish and stick  
> with it. -Jeff ScottN1213W
>
> 
> Get Free Email with Video Mail & Video Chat!
> http://www.juno.com/freeemail?refcd=JUTAGOUT1FREM0210
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>

KR> Elevator

[Jeff Scott]

When I rebuilt the tail on my KR to enlarge the stab and elevator, I built my 
elevator as two pieces and inserted each half in from the side, then sandwiched 
them together between two aluminum plates.  There are several pictures at 
, follow the KR links. When Lee Van Dyke rebuilt his 
KR, I believe he cut the vertical spar out in order to replace the elevator, 
then rebuilt the vertical spar.  You'll spend more time fretting about it than 
doing the job.  Devise a plan that you can see start to finish and stick with 
it. -Jeff ScottN1213W 


Get Free Email with Video Mail & Video Chat!
http://www.juno.com/freeemail?refcd=JUTAGOUT1FREM0210

KR> Elevator?

[Mark Langford]

OK, I reread it and over-reacted.  The picture was misleading too. I'd split 
the split and squirt some T-88 in it with a syringe, close it up and let it 
cure, and it'll be good as new.  I wouldn't use Kevlar, and doubt that's 
what's there now.  It's probably just fiberglass built using yellowed resin. 
Just use glass to fix it again.  I probably still don't really grasp the 
whole problem, but the links in the previous email should at least give you 
some insight as to what the structure looks like beneath your KR2's skin.

Mark Langford
ML at N56ML.com
website at http://www.N56ML.com

KR> Elevator?

[Jose Fuentes]

Hi Mark,

I value your opion very much, thoguh I might not been clear in my email,
wish I could take some pictures but I'm in Orlando right now.

Anyways, the Horz Stablizer is fine, nothing wrong with it, it's all on the
elevator it looks like something just snapped it off on one side.

Most of the wood for the elevator as shown in the picture is there, as I'm
not familer with the construction and don't have the plans I can't say how
much is missing.

So here is me guessing.

I think there was some kevlar or glass laid up over a foam core that was
glued on to the wood that controls the elevators movement. The glas/foam is
what is broken off, the wood is still in place on the henges.

The wood is a little split the first few inches (maybe only 2) at the very
end towards the outside.

Since everything else is good I figured there must be a way to just do a new
elevator on that side.

Since I know metal (BD-4 building) I figured I could also use some of my
2024 T3 alumn cut into the shape needed, and epoxy it on to a foam wedge cut
the correct shape and then epoxy/screw the metal onto the wood. Figured the
combonation of screws and epoxy might do the trick to keep it on there.

Thoughts?

Joe

On Sat, Dec 25, 2010 at 5:35 PM, Mark Langford  wrote:

> Yes, the horizontal stabilizer spars are normally epoxied to  plywood
> bulkheads that also capture the vertical stabilizer spars.  It will be a
> pain to detach, and even worse will be that you'll have to get creative on
> how to get the new elevator past the aft vertical stab spar to install it.
> Unless you basically destroy the vertical stab, you'll have to make the
> elevator in two pieces and then epoxy or bolt them together to install the
> halves (less than optimal).  Not very palatable in my book, but given that
> your elevator looks like it's broken in half anyway, you are already in
> that
> boat.
>
> I was going to point you to http://www.n56ml.com/misc.html (about a fourth
> of the way down) to show how I fastened my horizontal stab to the fuselage,
> rather than wood, so that's a viable method of reattaching a new h/s if you
> butcher up the spruce in the fuselage, but you've still got the elevator
> problem.
>
> I've fretted over a lot of similar problems while building my plane, and
> what I usually found to work best is simply get out the reciprocating saw
> and cut away all offending material and start over. Leave the vertical stab
> spars in place, but everything horizontal ought to go. You could leave the
> leading edge of the vertical stab there to keep from having to reform it,
> then build a new h/s and elevator assembly and slip it into the v/s spar
> slot, fasten with aluminum angle like I did mine (or wood, if you were
> careful and didn't damage it during the surgery), reglass the vertical
> stab,
> and you're done.  Sounds like a real ordeal, but it has more appeal to me
> than trying to scab something on to the split h/s spar, and you're going to
> have to put a new elevator in there anyway.
>
> While you're at it, you could make the horizontal stab/elevator a little
> longer and help with the pitch sensitivity of the KR2.  See
> http://www.n56ml.com/kht.html for an overview on how to build that
> assembly,
> and using the "new" NACA 63009 airfoil to improve effectiveness slightly
> (templates link on that page).  Also see http://www.n56ml.com/kvs.html for
> a
> lot of details on what's under the skin of the vertical stab along with
> some
> fabrication and integration photos and narrative..
>
> That's what I'd do with that mess.  Just get the Sawzall out and try not to
> hurt anything you're going to keep.  I've found that a beer first helps
> ease
> the pain.
>
> You're welcome to perform this operation some other way and prove me wrong,
> however...
>
> Mark Langford
> ML at N56ML.com
> website at http://www.N56ML.com 
> 
>
>
>

KR> Elevator?

[Mark Langford]

Joes Fuentes wrote:

>>Someone had a whole Horz piece with elevator to sell me, though it 
>>occurred
to me when I went to look at the lane in more detail that I'm not familiar
with how the horz is attached?<<

Yes, the horizontal stabilizer spars are normally epoxied to  plywood 
bulkheads that also capture the vertical stabilizer spars.  It will be a 
pain to detach, and even worse will be that you'll have to get creative on 
how to get the new elevator past the aft vertical stab spar to install it. 
Unless you basically destroy the vertical stab, you'll have to make the 
elevator in two pieces and then epoxy or bolt them together to install the 
halves (less than optimal).  Not very palatable in my book, but given that 
your elevator looks like it's broken in half anyway, you are already in that 
boat.

I was going to point you to http://www.n56ml.com/misc.html (about a fourth 
of the way down) to show how I fastened my horizontal stab to the fuselage, 
rather than wood, so that's a viable method of reattaching a new h/s if you 
butcher up the spruce in the fuselage, but you've still got the elevator 
problem.

I've fretted over a lot of similar problems while building my plane, and 
what I usually found to work best is simply get out the reciprocating saw 
and cut away all offending material and start over. Leave the vertical stab 
spars in place, but everything horizontal ought to go. You could leave the 
leading edge of the vertical stab there to keep from having to reform it, 
then build a new h/s and elevator assembly and slip it into the v/s spar 
slot, fasten with aluminum angle like I did mine (or wood, if you were 
careful and didn't damage it during the surgery), reglass the vertical stab, 
and you're done.  Sounds like a real ordeal, but it has more appeal to me 
than trying to scab something on to the split h/s spar, and you're going to 
have to put a new elevator in there anyway.

While you're at it, you could make the horizontal stab/elevator a little 
longer and help with the pitch sensitivity of the KR2.  See 
http://www.n56ml.com/kht.html for an overview on how to build that assembly, 
and using the "new" NACA 63009 airfoil to improve effectiveness slightly 
(templates link on that page).  Also see http://www.n56ml.com/kvs.html for a 
lot of details on what's under the skin of the vertical stab along with some 
fabrication and integration photos and narrative..

That's what I'd do with that mess.  Just get the Sawzall out and try not to 
hurt anything you're going to keep.  I've found that a beer first helps ease 
the pain.

You're welcome to perform this operation some other way and prove me wrong, 
however...

Mark Langford
ML at N56ML.com
website at http://www.N56ML.com

KR> Elevator?

[Jose Fuentes]

Hi everyone

Someone had a whole Horz piece with elevator to sell me, though it occurred
to me when I went to look at the lane in more detail that I'm not familiar
with how the horz is attached?

I thought maybe it was bolted on and glassed in, so I would simply cut the
glass and unbolt it. but it seems after talking to someone else about a
motor and their project that it might be glued on.

If it's glued on I fear it might be a major PITA to get off?

Ok here is the basic problem, the whole elevator is missing on one side, as
shown here:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=31949942&l=d7772e8339&id=1106895076

Now the wood seems ok except the last 5 inches it's split. To repair with a
new piece of wood I would have to cut the rudder spar.
Here is a thought, could I expoy the split wood  so it doesn't get any worse
at the very end. Then use hard Kevlar to shape out a new elevator and then
glass it in place?

Open to suggestions?

Thanks and happy holidays

Joe


On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 9:30 PM, Jose Fuentes wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> Was wondering if anyone had a complete elevator laying around from a junked
> project that was in good shape?
>
> The project I took over has half the elevator missing, I've debated with
> myself on either rebuilding it or maybe if I'm lucky I can just buy one
> from
> a crashed plane or something?
>
> Hence this email.
>
> just so the two sides match, I'll want the whole elevator.
>
> Thanks and look forward to any replies.
>
> Joe
>
> --
> Jose Fuentes
> Founding Father (one of and former Vice Prez) of Capital City.NET User's
> Group
> Former Microsoft MVP
> http://blogs.aspadvice.com/jfuentes
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>



-- 
Jose Fuentes
Founding Father (one of and former Vice Prez) of Capital City.NET User's
Group
Former Microsoft MVP
http://blogs.aspadvice.com/jfuentes

KR> Elevator?

[Larry Knox]

I sold the gear and the best rudder pedal set up as well as the RR canopy
and frame. I still has wing spars and a set of wings, some control rods and
stick set up a canopy. I don't want to peacemeal but if you're interested in
several things maybe. Larry

-Original Message-
From: krnet-bounces+larry=lebanair@mylist.net
[mailto:krnet-bounces+larry=lebanair@mylist.net] On Behalf Of Craig
Williams
Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 5:35 AM
To: KRnet
Subject: Re: KR> Elevator?

I think this is his list

http://www.lebanair.com/adpics/krparts/index.html



--- On Sun, 12/19/10, Jose Fuentes  wrote:

> From: Jose Fuentes 
> Subject: Re: KR> Elevator?
> To: "KRnet" 
> Date: Sunday, December 19, 2010, 1:27 PM
> I am in Tallahassee, FL
> 
> I'm sure you seen my landing gear and other item requests,
> when you say you
> have a bunch of stuff, is it just mainly fueslege stuff?
> 
> Have a list?
> 





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KR> Elevator?

[Larry Knox]

I sold the landing gear and the rudder pedal set up. I have some of the
control stick stuff rod stuff, another set up for rudder pedals that are not
very complete. Otherwise it is fuselage and wing stuff plus a set of built
wings.Larry

-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On Behalf
Of Jose Fuentes
Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 5:27 AM
To: KRnet
Subject: Re: KR> Elevator?

I am in Tallahassee, FL

I'm sure you seen my landing gear and other item requests, when you say you
have a bunch of stuff, is it just mainly fueslege stuff?

Have a list?

Joe

On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 11:18 PM, Larry Knox  wrote:

> Joe, where are you located. I have a shop full of KR2 stuff and nobody
> seems
> to want to pay are reasonable price for it and the shipping seems to
> destroy
> it. I have a KR2 boat that has a completed elevator on it and its nice, if
> we can get it to you without the freight crashing it. la...@lebanair.com
>
> -Original Message-
> From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On Behalf
> Of Jose Fuentes
> Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2010 6:30 PM
> To: KRnet
> Subject: KR> Elevator?
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> Was wondering if anyone had a complete elevator laying around from a
junked
> project that was in good shape?
>
> The project I took over has half the elevator missing, I've debated with
> myself on either rebuilding it or maybe if I'm lucky I can just buy one
> from
> a crashed plane or something?
>
> Hence this email.
>
> just so the two sides match, I'll want the whole elevator.
>
> Thanks and look forward to any replies.
>
> Joe
>
> --
> Jose Fuentes
> Founding Father (one of and former Vice Prez) of Capital City.NET User's
> Group
> Former Microsoft MVP
> http://blogs.aspadvice.com/jfuentes
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>
>
> ___
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> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>



-- 
Jose Fuentes
Founding Father (one of and former Vice Prez) of Capital City.NET User's
Group
Former Microsoft MVP
http://blogs.aspadvice.com/jfuentes
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KR> Elevator?

[Craig Williams]

I think this is his list

http://www.lebanair.com/adpics/krparts/index.html



--- On Sun, 12/19/10, Jose Fuentes  wrote:

> From: Jose Fuentes 
> Subject: Re: KR> Elevator?
> To: "KRnet" 
> Date: Sunday, December 19, 2010, 1:27 PM
> I am in Tallahassee, FL
> 
> I'm sure you seen my landing gear and other item requests,
> when you say you
> have a bunch of stuff, is it just mainly fueslege stuff?
> 
> Have a list?
> 

KR> Elevator?

[Jose Fuentes]

I am in Tallahassee, FL

I'm sure you seen my landing gear and other item requests, when you say you
have a bunch of stuff, is it just mainly fueslege stuff?

Have a list?

Joe

On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 11:18 PM, Larry Knox  wrote:

> Joe, where are you located. I have a shop full of KR2 stuff and nobody
> seems
> to want to pay are reasonable price for it and the shipping seems to
> destroy
> it. I have a KR2 boat that has a completed elevator on it and its nice, if
> we can get it to you without the freight crashing it. la...@lebanair.com
>
> -Original Message-
> From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On Behalf
> Of Jose Fuentes
> Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2010 6:30 PM
> To: KRnet
> Subject: KR> Elevator?
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> Was wondering if anyone had a complete elevator laying around from a junked
> project that was in good shape?
>
> The project I took over has half the elevator missing, I've debated with
> myself on either rebuilding it or maybe if I'm lucky I can just buy one
> from
> a crashed plane or something?
>
> Hence this email.
>
> just so the two sides match, I'll want the whole elevator.
>
> Thanks and look forward to any replies.
>
> Joe
>
> --
> Jose Fuentes
> Founding Father (one of and former Vice Prez) of Capital City.NET User's
> Group
> Former Microsoft MVP
> http://blogs.aspadvice.com/jfuentes
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>
>
> ___
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> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>



-- 
Jose Fuentes
Founding Father (one of and former Vice Prez) of Capital City.NET User's
Group
Former Microsoft MVP
http://blogs.aspadvice.com/jfuentes

KR> Elevator?

[Larry Knox]

Joe, where are you located. I have a shop full of KR2 stuff and nobody seems
to want to pay are reasonable price for it and the shipping seems to destroy
it. I have a KR2 boat that has a completed elevator on it and its nice, if
we can get it to you without the freight crashing it. la...@lebanair.com 

-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On Behalf
Of Jose Fuentes
Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2010 6:30 PM
To: KRnet
Subject: KR> Elevator?

Hi everyone,

Was wondering if anyone had a complete elevator laying around from a junked
project that was in good shape?

The project I took over has half the elevator missing, I've debated with
myself on either rebuilding it or maybe if I'm lucky I can just buy one from
a crashed plane or something?

Hence this email.

just so the two sides match, I'll want the whole elevator.

Thanks and look forward to any replies.

Joe

-- 
Jose Fuentes
Founding Father (one of and former Vice Prez) of Capital City.NET User's
Group
Former Microsoft MVP
http://blogs.aspadvice.com/jfuentes
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KR> Elevator?

[Jose Fuentes]

Hi everyone,

Was wondering if anyone had a complete elevator laying around from a junked
project that was in good shape?

The project I took over has half the elevator missing, I've debated with
myself on either rebuilding it or maybe if I'm lucky I can just buy one from
a crashed plane or something?

Hence this email.

just so the two sides match, I'll want the whole elevator.

Thanks and look forward to any replies.

Joe

-- 
Jose Fuentes
Founding Father (one of and former Vice Prez) of Capital City.NET User's
Group
Former Microsoft MVP
http://blogs.aspadvice.com/jfuentes

KR> Elevator control arm

[Dan Heath]

Would anything like this work for you?

http://www.airpartsinc.com/products/Aluminum-C-channel.htm


See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics 
See you at the 2010 - KR Gathering in Richmond, Ky - I39
There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for Flying
has begun.
Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC

-Original Message-
From: krnet-bounces+danrh=windstream@mylist.net
[mailto:krnet-bounces+danrh=windstream@mylist.net] On Behalf Of
jg7...@mindspring.com
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 5:12 PM
To: KRnet
Subject: KR> Elevator control arm

Quick question for the group. I am using DR Dean hinges for the tail of my
KR. Langford used 1in aluminum Tee for his control arm. I am having trouble
finding it and where I did find it, they don't know the alloy. can anyone
tell me where to purchase this in 6061 T?


jg7...@mindspring.com
EarthLink Revolves Around You.
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KR> Elevator control arm

[Larry&Sallie Flesner]

>  I am using DR Dean hinges for the tail of my KR. Langford used 1in 
> aluminum Tee for his control arm. I am having trouble finding it 
> and where I did find it, they don't know the alloy. can anyone tell 
> me where to purchase this in 6061 T?
>jg7...@mindspring.com
++

Use 2 aluminum angles back-to-back to form a tee.  Cut down to size 
if necessary.

http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_detail.php/pid=2000~subid=9145/index.html

http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_cat.php/subid=9145/index.html


Depending on the type of cable end fitting you intend to use, space 
them apart, put the cable fitting between them, and you have a 
fitting in double shear.  Even better.

Larry Flesner

KR> Elevator control arm

[jg7...@mindspring.com]

Quick question for the group. I am using DR Dean hinges for the tail of my KR. 
Langford used 1in aluminum Tee for his control arm. I am having trouble finding 
it and where I did find it, they don't know the alloy. can anyone tell me where 
to purchase this in 6061 T?


jg7...@mindspring.com
EarthLink Revolves Around You.

KR> Elevator length 2

[bdazzca...@aol.com]

Well I went with Mark's AS5046-75 tail airfoil. But someone said  to use 
some balancing tabs on that as well for more stability. I left my rudder  to 
the size for the AS5046-75 airfoil as well but if I can get better  
performance with changing it let me know. With my KR I widened it 10" and  
stretched 
it to 14' thinking I was going to have passengers at some point. Im  
building it for speed and range. I cant rememer what wing airfoil I went with  
but 
im thinking its the AS5045/8. If anyone knows of a better airfoil for the  
wings too PLEASE send. 


David


In a message dated 10/16/2009 8:47:30 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
f...@renotruss.com writes:

Jeff,  what is significant mean on your rudder size?

Fred Johnson
Reno,  NV


Jeff Scott wrote:

FWIW, I also added to the cord of the  rudder, which also made a
significant improvement to the ability to slip  the plane and made a big
improvement to the crosswind landing capability of  the  aircraft.





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KR> Elevator length

[jscott.pi...@juno.com]

I extended the rudder 3" at the bottom and 1" at the top.  -Jeff


On Fri, 16 Oct 2009 08:07:39 -0700 "Fred Johnson" 
writes:
> Jeff, what is significant mean on your rudder size?
> 
> Fred Johnson
> Reno, NV
> 
> 
> Jeff Scott wrote:
> 
> FWIW, I also added to the cord of the rudder, which also made a
> significant improvement to the ability to slip the plane and made a 
> big
> improvement to the crosswind landing capability of the aircraft.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
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> 
> 

Find Gutter Cover Pros
Compare up to 4 gutter cover bids. Free estimates & no obligation!
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KR> Elevator length

[Fred Johnson]

Jeff, what is significant mean on your rudder size?

Fred Johnson
Reno, NV


Jeff Scott wrote:

FWIW, I also added to the cord of the rudder, which also made a
significant improvement to the ability to slip the plane and made a big
improvement to the crosswind landing capability of the aircraft.

KR> Elevator length

[jscott.pi...@juno.com]

I haven't seen any replies to this question, so I'll give my opinion and
reference the testing I've done.  Please refer to http://jscott.comlu.com
and follow the link to the KR page.  There's a lot more detail there.  

I flew my KR with the stock 72" tail for 500 hrs.  Then I cut the tail
off and built a 96" span tail using the 0009 airfoil provided on Mark's
web site.  I've flown the plane another 300 hours since then.  I can't
think of any other KR that has flown with both tails.  In short, the
additional tail horizontal stab adds significantly to the pitch stability
of the plane.  It is a rock solid hands off flyer when properly trimmed. 
Map folding or shifting around in the seat is no longer an aerobatic
experience.  It also added significantly to the control pressures, (also
refered to as control or pilot feedback).  No more super light stick that
is easily over controlled.  It is still very light and quick as compared
to a certificated aircraft, but has a significant feel to the stick.  It
has a good feel to it at slow and cruise speeds, and the elevator is
actually a bit heavy when the speeds get up around 200+ mph, which, in my
opinion, is a desirable feature.

I've been told that I wasted my time, was ruining the "sporty" feel of my
KR, and that I had no idea what I was doing.  But I don't know of anyone
else that has done the same testing and can discuss or demonstrate the
results.

FWIW, I also added to the cord of the rudder, which also made a
significant improvement to the ability to slip the plane and made a big
improvement to the crosswind landing capability of the aircraft.

Jeff Scott
Los Alamos, NM


On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 18:00:27 EDT bdazzca...@aol.com writes:
> Hey netters,
>  
> I was just curious on  how long people are making their 
> elevators. 
> I think I made mine 84" and  that's including 5" each side for the 
> balance 
> tabs. Is this too excessive or  about right for stability?
>  
>  
>  
> David Swanson
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at 
> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> 
> 

Best Weight Loss Program - Click Here!
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KR> Elevator length

[bdazzca...@aol.com]

Hey netters,

I was just curious on  how long people are making their elevators. 
I think I made mine 84" and  that's including 5" each side for the balance 
tabs. Is this too excessive or  about right for stability?



David Swanson

KR> elevator weight

[skp...@charter.net]

Since we are on the subject I weighed my Elevator and Horizontal Stabilizer. 
(using bathroom scales, so take it for what could be close.) 

Horizontal Stabilizer... New airfoil with trim cable..primer...7 lbs 

Elevator...6.5 inches wider each side...with counter weights..primer..trim 
tab..9.5 lbs. 


Steven Phillabaum
KR2S; 5048; corvair;
Auburn, Alabama

KR> Elevator travel

[dr jay]

Netters

  I need to know how many degrees the elevator needs to be able to travel both 
up and down on a KR2.  I can't seem to find it anywhere in the plans.

  drjay in sunny arizona


-
Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! 
FareChase.

KR> Elevator travel

[Rich Seifert]

Hi dr jay
Elevator travel is up 30 degrees down 20 degrees.  You can find it on
KR-2 Drawing No. 7 which is page 29 in my KR Plans book.
Have a great one.
- Original Message -
From: "dr jay" 
To: "kr2 kr2" 
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 2:35 PM
Subject: KR> Elevator travel


> Netters
>
>   I need to know how many degrees the elevator needs to be able to travel
both up and down on a KR2.  I can't seem to find it anywhere in the plans.
>
>   drjay in sunny arizona
>
>
> -
> Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo!
FareChase.
>

KR> Elevator travel

[dr jay]

Rich

  Thanks for the info.  I must have a very old plans book which doesn't 
correspond to yours.

  drjay

Rich Seifert  wrote:
  Hi dr jay
Elevator travel is up 30 degrees down 20 degrees. You can find it on
KR-2 Drawing No. 7 which is page 29 in my KR Plans book.
Have a great one.
- Original Message -
From: "dr jay" 
To: "kr2 kr2" 
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 2:35 PM
Subject: KR> Elevator travel


> Netters
>
> I need to know how many degrees the elevator needs to be able to travel
both up and down on a KR2. I can't seem to find it anywhere in the plans.
>
> drjay in sunny arizona
>
>
> -
> Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo!
FareChase.
>


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KR> Elevator travel

[eric.pi...@starband.net]

The plans I am looking at dated May 1986 Page 71 30deg up and 20 deg down.

Eric

> Rich
>
>   Thanks for the info.  I must have a very old plans book which doesn't
> correspond to yours.
>
>   drjay
>
> Rich Seifert  wrote:
>   Hi dr jay
> Elevator travel is up 30 degrees down 20 degrees. You can find it on
> KR-2 Drawing No. 7 which is page 29 in my KR Plans book.
> Have a great one.
> - Original Message -
> From: "dr jay"
> To: "kr2 kr2"
> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 2:35 PM
> Subject: KR> Elevator travel
>
>
>> Netters
>>
>> I need to know how many degrees the elevator needs to be able to
>> travel
> both up and down on a KR2. I can't seem to find it anywhere in the
> plans.
>>
>> drjay in sunny arizona
>>
>>
>> -
>> Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with
>> Yahoo!
> FareChase.
>>
>
>
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net Post
> photos, introductions, and For Sale items to
> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php please see other KRnet info at
> http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>
>
>
> -
> Bored stiff? Loosen up...
> Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.
> ___
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> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net Post
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> http://www.krnet.org/info.html

KR> Elevator travel

[dr jay]

Eric

There it was as big as life.  I probably looked at that page several times 
without carefully reading it.

Incidently, I just happened to notice in the picture on that page that the 
elevator spar seems to be cut out where the arm is installed.  It caught my eye 
because when I repaired my broken spar and attached the elevator hinges that 
spar butted right up against the horizontal stabilizer half of the fitting.  
That leaves not enough room to bolt the arm hinge together, but if the picture 
is correct then I need to make a cutout of suficient depth to line up the 
fitting holes. Am I right or just wishful thinking?

drjay


- Original Message 
From: "eric.pi...@starband.net" 
To: kr...@mylist.net
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 6:10:57 PM
Subject: Re: KR> Elevator travel


The plans I am looking at dated May 1986 Page 71 30deg up and 20 deg down.

Eric

> Rich
>
>   Thanks for the info.  I must have a very old plans book which doesn't
> correspond to yours.
>
>   drjay
>
> Rich Seifert  wrote:
>   Hi dr jay
> Elevator travel is up 30 degrees down 20 degrees. You can find it on
> KR-2 Drawing No. 7 which is page 29 in my KR Plans book.
> Have a great one.
> - Original Message -
> From: "dr jay"
> To: "kr2 kr2"
> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 2:35 PM
> Subject: KR> Elevator travel
>
>
>> Netters
>>
>> I need to know how many degrees the elevator needs to be able to
>> travel
> both up and down on a KR2. I can't seem to find it anywhere in the
> plans.
>>
>> drjay in sunny arizona
>>
>>
>> -
>> Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with
>> Yahoo!
> FareChase.
>>
>
>
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net Post
> photos, introductions, and For Sale items to
> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php please see other KRnet info at
> http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>
>
>
> -
> Bored stiff? Loosen up...
> Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.
> ___
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KR> Elevator travel

[eric.pi...@starband.net]

Take a look at page 46 drawing # 44 I think that will answer your question.

Eric Pitts
Terre Haute Ind.
eric.pitts.mystarband.net

> Eric
>
> There it was as big as life.  I probably looked at that page several
> times without carefully reading it.
>
> Incidently, I just happened to notice in the picture on that page that
> the elevator spar seems to be cut out where the arm is installed.  It
> caught my eye because when I repaired my broken spar and attached the
> elevator hinges that spar butted right up against the horizontal
> stabilizer half of the fitting.  That leaves not enough room to bolt the
> arm hinge together, but if the picture is correct then I need to make a
> cutout of suficient depth to line up the fitting holes. Am I right or
> just wishful thinking?
>
> drjay
>
>
> - Original Message 
> From: "eric.pi...@starband.net" 
> To: kr...@mylist.net
> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 6:10:57 PM
> Subject: Re: KR> Elevator travel
>
>
> The plans I am looking at dated May 1986 Page 71 30deg up and 20 deg
> down.
>
> Eric
>
>> Rich
>>
>>   Thanks for the info.  I must have a very old plans book which
>> doesn't
>> correspond to yours.
>>
>>   drjay
>>
>> Rich Seifert  wrote:
>>   Hi dr jay
>> Elevator travel is up 30 degrees down 20 degrees. You can find it on
>> KR-2 Drawing No. 7 which is page 29 in my KR Plans book.
>> Have a great one.
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "dr jay"
>> To: "kr2 kr2"
>> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 2:35 PM
>> Subject: KR> Elevator travel
>>
>>
>>> Netters
>>>
>>> I need to know how many degrees the elevator needs to be able to
>>> travel
>> both up and down on a KR2. I can't seem to find it anywhere in the
>> plans.
>>>
>>> drjay in sunny arizona
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with
>>> Yahoo!
>> FareChase.
>>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
>> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
>> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to
>> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php please see other KRnet info
>> at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Bored stiff? Loosen up...
>> Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.
>> ___
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>> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
>> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to
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>> at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>
>
>
>
> ___
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>
>
> 
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KR> Elevator travel

[dr jay]

Eric

  The #44 drawing shows the spar to be untouched but the Photo #29 pg 71 is as 
described below, so there seems to be a conflict between the drawing and the 
photo.dang!

  drjay

eric.pi...@starband.net wrote:
  Take a look at page 46 drawing # 44 I think that will answer your question.

Eric Pitts
Terre Haute Ind.
eric.pitts.mystarband.net

> Eric
>
> There it was as big as life. I probably looked at that page several
> times without carefully reading it.
>
> Incidently, I just happened to notice in the picture on that page that
> the elevator spar seems to be cut out where the arm is installed. It
> caught my eye because when I repaired my broken spar and attached the
> elevator hinges that spar butted right up against the horizontal
> stabilizer half of the fitting. That leaves not enough room to bolt the
> arm hinge together, but if the picture is correct then I need to make a
> cutout of suficient depth to line up the fitting holes. Am I right or
> just wishful thinking?
>
> drjay
>
>
> - Original Message 
> From: "eric.pi...@starband.net" 
> To: kr...@mylist.net
> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 6:10:57 PM
> Subject: Re: KR> Elevator travel
>
>
> The plans I am looking at dated May 1986 Page 71 30deg up and 20 deg
> down.
>
> Eric
>
>> Rich
>>
>> Thanks for the info. I must have a very old plans book which
>> doesn't
>> correspond to yours.
>>
>> drjay
>>
>> Rich Seifert wrote:
>> Hi dr jay
>> Elevator travel is up 30 degrees down 20 degrees. You can find it on
>> KR-2 Drawing No. 7 which is page 29 in my KR Plans book.
>> Have a great one.
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "dr jay"
>> To: "kr2 kr2"
>> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 2:35 PM
>> Subject: KR> Elevator travel
>>
>>
>>> Netters
>>>
>>> I need to know how many degrees the elevator needs to be able to
>>> travel
>> both up and down on a KR2. I can't seem to find it anywhere in the
>> plans.
>>>
>>> drjay in sunny arizona
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with
>>> Yahoo!
>> FareChase.
>>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
>> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
>> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to
>> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php please see other KRnet info
>> at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Bored stiff? Loosen up...
>> Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.
>> ___
>> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
>> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
>> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to
>> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php please see other KRnet info
>> at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>
>
>
>
> ___
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>
>
>
> 
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KR> Elevator travel

[Mark Langford]

drjay wrote:

>   The #44 drawing shows the spar to be untouched but the Photo #29 pg 71
is as described below, so there seems to be a conflict between the drawing
and the photo.dang!

That notch you see in the picture is not in the wood, it's in the foam/glass
sandwich .

Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama
see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford
email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net
--

Fwd: Re: KR> Elevator travel

[dr jay]

I finally realized after running a laser line along the edge of the spar that 
there is a slight bow of about 3/16" forward which needs to be shaved down and 
reinforced by widening the backup plate.  That should do it.  It was the repair 
that created the problem. 

  Thank you for your input which this newbie appreciates.

  drjay

dr jay  wrote:
  Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 07:27:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: dr jay 
Subject: Re: KR> Elevator travel
To: KRnet 

Eric

The #44 drawing shows the spar to be untouched but the Photo #29 pg 71 is as 
described below, so there seems to be a conflict between the drawing and the 
photo.dang!

drjay

eric.pi...@starband.net wrote:
Take a look at page 46 drawing # 44 I think that will answer your question.

Eric Pitts
Terre Haute Ind.
eric.pitts.mystarband.net

> Eric
>
> There it was as big as life. I probably looked at that page several
> times without carefully reading it.
>
> Incidently, I just happened to notice in the picture on that page that
> the elevator spar seems to be cut out where the arm is installed. It
> caught my eye because when I repaired my broken spar and attached the
> elevator hinges that spar butted right up against the horizontal
> stabilizer half of the fitting. That leaves not enough room to bolt the
> arm hinge together, but if the picture is correct then I need to make a
> cutout of suficient depth to line up the fitting holes. Am I right or
> just wishful thinking?
>
> drjay
>
>
> - Original Message 
> From: "eric.pi...@starband.net" 
> To: kr...@mylist.net
> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 6:10:57 PM
> Subject: Re: KR> Elevator travel
>
>
> The plans I am looking at dated May 1986 Page 71 30deg up and 20 deg
> down.
>
> Eric
>
>> Rich
>>
>> Thanks for the info. I must have a very old plans book which
>> doesn't
>> correspond to yours.
>>
>> drjay
>>
>> Rich Seifert wrote:
>> Hi dr jay
>> Elevator travel is up 30 degrees down 20 degrees. You can find it on
>> KR-2 Drawing No. 7 which is page 29 in my KR Plans book.
>> Have a great one.
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "dr jay"
>> To: "kr2 kr2"
>> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 2:35 PM
>> Subject: KR> Elevator travel
>>
>>
>>> Netters
>>>
>>> I need to know how many degrees the elevator needs to be able to
>>> travel
>> both up and down on a KR2. I can't seem to find it anywhere in the
>> plans.
>>>
>>> drjay in sunny arizona
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with
>>> Yahoo!
>> FareChase.
>>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
>> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
>> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to
>> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php please see other KRnet info
>> at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Bored stiff? Loosen up...
>> Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.
>> ___
>> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
>> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
>> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to
>> http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php please see other KRnet info
>> at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>
>
>
>
> ___
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>
>
>
> 
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KR> Elevator travel

[Eric Pitts]

I believe the notch or cut you maybe referring to is where no foam is 
mounted on the spar for the rudder travel left to right. The spar its self 
is not cut. I will take a photo of mine and send it to you offline.

Eric Pitts
Terre Haute, Indiana
KR2S
eric.pi...@starband.net
- Original Message - 
From: "dr jay" 
To: "KRnet" 
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: KR> Elevator travel


> Eric
>
>  The #44 drawing shows the spar to be untouched but the Photo #29 pg 71 is 
> as described below, so there seems to be a conflict between the drawing 
> and the photo.dang!
>
>  drjay
>
> eric.pi...@starband.net wrote:
>  Take a look at page 46 drawing # 44 I think that will answer your 
> question.
>
> Eric Pitts
> Terre Haute Ind.
> eric.pitts.mystarband.net
>
>> Eric
>>
>> There it was as big as life. I probably looked at that page several
>> times without carefully reading it.
>>
>> Incidently, I just happened to notice in the picture on that page that
>> the elevator spar seems to be cut out where the arm is installed. It
>> caught my eye because when I repaired my broken spar and attached the
>> elevator hinges that spar butted right up against the horizontal
>> stabilizer half of the fitting. That leaves not enough room to bolt the
>> arm hinge together, but if the picture is correct then I need to make a
>> cutout of suficient depth to line up the fitting holes. Am I right or
>> just wishful thinking?
>>
>> drjay
>>
>>
>> - Original Message 
>> From: "eric.pi...@starband.net"
>> To: kr...@mylist.net
>> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 6:10:57 PM
>> Subject: Re: KR> Elevator travel
>>
>>
>> The plans I am looking at dated May 1986 Page 71 30deg up and 20 deg
>> down.
>>
>> Eric
>>
>>> Rich
>>>
>>> Thanks for the info. I must have a very old plans book which
>>> doesn't
>>> correspond to yours.
>>>
>>> drjay
>>>
>>> Rich Seifert wrote:
>>> Hi dr jay
>>> Elevator travel is up 30 degrees down 20 degrees. You can find it on
>>> KR-2 Drawing No. 7 which is page 29 in my KR Plans book.
>>> Have a great one.
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "dr jay"
>>> To: "kr2 kr2"
>>> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 2:35 PM
>>> Subject: KR> Elevator travel
>>>
>>>
>>>> Netters
>>>>
>>>> I need to know how many degrees the elevator needs to be able to
>>>> travel
>>> both up and down on a KR2. I can't seem to find it anywhere in the
>>> plans.
>>>>
>>>> drjay in sunny arizona
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -
>>>> Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with
>>>> Yahoo!
>>> FareChase.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
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KR> Elevator Pushrod

[mtmcgo...@aol.com]

 My RV-4 and Kitfox had elevator pushrods instead of cables. The pushrod was  
about 1 1/4 inch in diameter and used balljoint [heim] ends. There was a 
tapered  aluminum part that the balljoint screwed into and was then riveted to 
the 
 tubing. Anyone know where those can be bought other than Van's or Skystar?

Mike McGowan
 N4288C

KR> Elevator Pushrod

[e.j.pi...@att.net]

Try Wicks @ www.wicks.com


--
Eric Pitts
Terre Haute, Indiana
KR2S

 -- Original message --
From: mtmcgo...@aol.com
 There was a 
> tapered  aluminum part that the balljoint screwed into and was then riveted 
> to 
> the 
>  tubing. Anyone know where those can be bought other than Van's or Skystar?

KR> Elevator Pushrod

[Mark Langford]

Mike McGowan wrote:

> My RV-4 and Kitfox had elevator pushrods instead of cables. The pushrod
was
> about 1 1/4 inch in diameter and used balljoint [heim] ends. There was a
> tapered  aluminum part that the balljoint screwed into and was then
riveted to the
>  tubing. Anyone know where those can be bought other than Van's or
Skystar?

Those are called AN490 "rod ends", at least there's a steel version named
that.   AN490's can be bought from Wicks at
http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_search_results.php/search=YW40OTA
, go to
http://www.wicksaircraft.com and search for AN490.  These are steel though,
and are therefore a little on the heavy side.  They are made to rivet or
weld to 4130 tubing.   I don't see any 1.25" in diameter, but there maybe be
such a thing somewhere in aluminum.  If Van's exactly what you have in mind,
I'd think that would be the place to get them.  Their prices seem pretty
reasonable on the stuff I've seen.

Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama
see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford
email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net
--

KR> Elevator Pushrod

[e.j.pi...@att.net]

Is this what you are looking for?

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/ap/pushrod.html

--
Eric Pitts
Terre Haute, Indiana
KR2S

 -- Original message --
From: mtmcgo...@aol.com
The pushrod was  
> about 1 1/4 inch in diameter and used balljoint [heim] ends. There was a 
> tapered  aluminum part that the balljoint screwed into and was then riveted 
> to 
> the 
>  tubing. Anyone know where those can be bought other than Van's or Skystar?

KR> Elevator Pushrod

[Steve Eberhart]

Van's is probably the most reasonable place to buy stuff like this.  You 
can find everything that is used to build any of the RV's at the RV 
Parts Store on their web site.  This is what their elevator pushrod ends 
look like:

http://scott.jpainter.org/log/img/img_5313.jpg
http://scott.jpainter.org/log/img/img_5315.jpg

Steve Eberhart
RV-7A, just made my elevator pushrod last week.

mtmcgo...@aol.com wrote:
>  My RV-4 and Kitfox had elevator pushrods instead of cables. The pushrod was  
> about 1 1/4 inch in diameter and used balljoint [heim] ends. There was a 
> tapered  aluminum part that the balljoint screwed into and was then riveted 
> to the 
>  tubing. Anyone know where those can be bought other than Van's or Skystar?
>   

KR> elevator mass balance

[Chris Johnston]

I am wondering what peoples thoughts  are on extending the elevator horn 
either above or below and forward of  the elevator, via a curved  plate and 
mount the mass balance weight internally in the top of the rear fuse, below the 
elevator, or above the elevator in the base  of the fin,  obviously, the fin 
location would be a bit cramped as you need to get the pushrod out. Still 
thinking about the details. I don't have any foam or glass on the elevators 
yet, but it looks liks a reasonable amount of lead will be needed.



Chris Johnston

292 Bells line road

nORTH rICHMOND NSW

Australia.

KR> elevator mass balance

[Joseph H. Horton]

I have a mass balance in mine that predates the simpler design that Mark
Langford and others are using. There was a fair amount of time invested
in the idea and getting it all to fit and operate well, but it is fine
and is tested to 200 mph with stock tail feathers. My pictures are from
the olden days when film had to be developed. i could probably scan a
couple and mail them to you. In any case I don't see the need to change
the control horn dramatically
Joe Horton, Coopersburg, PA.
joe.kr2s.buil...@juno.com

On Wed, 6 Sep 2006 20:22:13 +1000 "Chris Johnston" 
writes:
> I am wondering what peoples thoughts  are on extending the 
> elevator horn either above or below and forward of  the elevator, 
> via a curved  plate and mount the mass balance weight internally in 
> the top of the rear fuse, below the elevator, or above the elevator 
> in the base  of the fin,  obviously, the fin location would be a bit 
> cramped as you need to get the pushrod out. Still thinking about the 
> details. I don't have any foam or glass on the elevators yet, but it 
> looks liks a reasonable amount of lead will be needed.
> 
> 
>  
>Chris Johnston
>  
>292 Bells line road
>  
>nORTH rICHMOND NSW
>  
>Australia.

KR> elevator mass balance

[R. Eason Sr.]

That is exactly what I did but the weight is on the bottom.  I found it more 
difficult to mount it on the top part of the horn. I had to carve out some foam 
though to allow the movement. All of the control is by cable.

Ronald R. Eason Sr.
Pres. & CEO, KCMO Office
J.R.L. Engineering Consortium Ltd.
816-468-4091, Kansas City, MO. 
Web Page: www.jrl-engineering.com


-- Original Message --
From: "Chris Johnston" 
Reply-To: KRnet 
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date:  Wed, 6 Sep 2006 20:22:13 +1000

I am wondering what peoples thoughts  are on extending the elevator horn 
either above or below and forward of  the elevator, via a curved  plate and 
mount the mass balance weight internally in the top of the rear fuse, below the 
elevator, or above the elevator in the base  of the fin,  obviously, the fin 
location would be a bit cramped as you need to get the pushrod out. Still 
thinking about the details. I don't have any foam or glass on the elevators 
yet, but it looks liks a reasonable amount of lead will be needed.



Chris Johnston

292 Bells line road

nORTH rICHMOND NSW

Australia.
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