Re: [libreoffice-l10n] New(?) colors in UI svx
On 12/01/2014 07:07 AM, Donald wrote: In the UI: svx/source/dialog.po there are some colors to be translated: Tango green, Tango red and others with Tango in the name. What is the significance of the word Tango? Is it part of the color name or is it software or something else? Tango scheme. What colors are Sunburst, Brownie, Sunset and Clay? Why not look on those in the LibO itself? These are artist descriptive names anyway. Yury -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] n’t → n't
On 11/30/2014 11:52 PM, Rimas Kudelis wrote: ... I don't really think this would be viable solution in the long run. Somebody would have to maintain that "translation" for years just because in 2014 localizers made a fuss out of a one-time problem that could (and should) have been automated not to bother them in the first ... Not condescending, surely? Just browsing a thousand strings is a hit on translator's time and eyes. Proofing costs more. Translators are on a receiving end of one-way work creation pipeline, and should have no say in the matter? Let's not forget that massive changes like these don't happen every month. Yes, we had migration to different accesskey characters, and Massive changes like that would and will happen in an open source world, when complex software package is involved; specifically, they'll happen in LibO. For two good reasons: because they cost practically nothing to initiator, and because in Open Source nobody can or wants put a veto on such changes. And why is not anyone (besides me) discussing automation, of that same problem, too? Yury -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-l10n] New(?) colors in UI svx
In the UI: svx/source/dialog.po there are some colors to be translated: Tango green, Tango red and others with Tango in the name. What is the significance of the word Tango? Is it part of the color name or is it software or something else? What colors are Sunburst, Brownie, Sunset and Clay? I have searched the web for these colors. They are not in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_colors. Any clues? Regards Donaldo -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] n’t → n't
Hi Olivier, *, On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 10:16 PM, Olivier Hallot wrote: > On 30/11/2014 18:52, Rimas Kudelis wrote: >> 2014.11.30 19:13, Olivier Hallot wrote: > > painless migration was my hope when I raised the issue, but saddly it > didn't show up in time. Such Changes In Capital Letters And Semicolons > Are Suitebale in EN But Does Not Affect Other Languages Where This Rule > Does Not Apply. It's impossible to automatically decide which of those changes are purely cosmetic and which not. And there likely won't be anyone who manually goes through all the changes and manually creates mapping from old to new so that old translations can be pulled in. And with changes like changing casing and adding colons it is more likely that the translation will also want to apply the change, so just staying silent and not flagging the string as changed is not really an option here. it's different with one-to-one changes that can easily (=automatically) be undone to look for the string as it was before the cosmetic change. The auto-translations of the help strings with changed help-ID works that way (although there is quite a bit of manual work involved to create the mapping). But once you have a mapping "old-helpid" → "new-helpid", you can easily apply the old translation. > Nevertheless, it may be time to create a T/LSC Translation/Linguistic > Steering Commitee to address the issues raised here. LiBO does not have > a linguistic revision of terms used in the UI. Not progressing just for the sake of not causing work for anybody is the wrong approach. But that doesn't mean the workflow as a whole cannot be improved. It would for example also be possible to have "master" project in pootle (instead of just for the release-branches), so that the amount of changes are incremental, and not all one or two months before a new major release. (but that of course means applying a translation to multiple projects, so not sure whether that really reduces the work and not causing more work for translators...) ciao Christian -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Choose Insert - Media - Image.
Hi, there is a string Choose Insert - Media - Image. But in the menus in Draw, it seems to be just Insert - Image; I cannot find "Image" in the submenu of "Media". I checked it in 4.4 beta 1. good catch, thanks! It applies to all components, not only to Draw. Patch submitted to Gerrit: https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/13224/ I really appreciate that someone does not translate only mechanically, but also think about and test new strings. There is plenty of outdated (and of course missing) content in help and every report is helpful. If you do not get feedback here, it would be worth to file a bug in bugzilla; otherwise your report will get lost here in tons of other mails:)) Best regards, Stanislav -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] n’t → n't
Hi Rimas On 30/11/2014 18:52, Rimas Kudelis wrote: > Hi, > > 2014.11.30 19:13, Olivier Hallot wrote: >> Lets invent a new language in the world named Liboish - LibreOffice >> language - that in fact is often confused with en_US, but it is not the >> same. >> >> I suggest to create a new entry in Pootle, named en-US so that we get a >> translation from Liboish to English. Other languages translates directly >> from Liboish and we are all happy not to redo our work. >> >> (Apologizes for the inapropriate sense of humour, but I saw this extra >> work comming months ago. 99% of my 4.4 UI was rework) > > I can't understand whether or not you're joking, but others are already > voicing their support to this idea, so I'll voice my 'unsupport' as well. I am joking and also provocative. Sorry for that. Of course there is no such thing like "Liboish" nor it make any sense. > > I don't really think this would be viable solution in the long run. > Somebody would have to maintain that "translation" for years just > because in 2014 localizers made a fuss out of a one-time problem that > could (and should) have been automated not to bother them in the first > place. Furthermore, in my opinion, there would be constant risk of > either doing too much or not doing enough in this front. > > Let's not forget that massive changes like these don't happen every > month. Yes, we had migration to different accesskey characters, and > manually updating all locales to reflect that must have been painful to > localizers. Yes, this current situation is somewhat similar because > again no real translation would is involved in this massive change. But: > I still believe this migration can be automated and made painless (at > least for the most part), so why not aim for making that automation a > prerequisite of the change that is threatening our well-being? LibO > developers don't live in another planet, and they can be reasoned and > negotiated with, right? painless migration was my hope when I raised the issue, but saddly it didn't show up in time. Such Changes In Capital Letters And Semicolons Are Suitebale in EN But Does Not Affect Other Languages Where This Rule Does Not Apply. Nevertheless, it may be time to create a T/LSC Translation/Linguistic Steering Commitee to address the issues raised here. LiBO does not have a linguistic revision of terms used in the UI. -- Olivier Hallot Comunidade LibreOffice http://ask.libreoffice.org/pt-br -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] n’t → n't
Hi, 2014.11.30 19:13, Olivier Hallot wrote: > Lets invent a new language in the world named Liboish - LibreOffice > language - that in fact is often confused with en_US, but it is not the > same. > > I suggest to create a new entry in Pootle, named en-US so that we get a > translation from Liboish to English. Other languages translates directly > from Liboish and we are all happy not to redo our work. > > (Apologizes for the inapropriate sense of humour, but I saw this extra > work comming months ago. 99% of my 4.4 UI was rework) I can't understand whether or not you're joking, but others are already voicing their support to this idea, so I'll voice my 'unsupport' as well. I don't really think this would be viable solution in the long run. Somebody would have to maintain that "translation" for years just because in 2014 localizers made a fuss out of a one-time problem that could (and should) have been automated not to bother them in the first place. Furthermore, in my opinion, there would be constant risk of either doing too much or not doing enough in this front. Let's not forget that massive changes like these don't happen every month. Yes, we had migration to different accesskey characters, and manually updating all locales to reflect that must have been painful to localizers. Yes, this current situation is somewhat similar because again no real translation would is involved in this massive change. But: I still believe this migration can be automated and made painless (at least for the most part), so why not aim for making that automation a prerequisite of the change that is threatening our well-being? LibO developers don't live in another planet, and they can be reasoned and negotiated with, right? Rimas -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10
In fact, this is a good idea, not in sarcastic way whatsoever. Point the translation origin to the uncorrcted, un-nicefied English (updated only if the semantics change). Make production en_US a 'translation' of this. Yury On 11/30/2014 08:13 PM, Olivier Hallot wrote: ... I suggest to create a new entry in Pootle, named en-US so that we get a translation from Liboish to English. Other languages translates directly from Liboish and we are all happy not to redo our work. ... -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10
On 11/30/2014 09:30 PM, Akerbeltz.org wrote: ... Yes, we're translating pro bono publico but it's still a callous way of treating donated lifetime. ... Did you notice how I've left out that angle? :) And 'callous' is the right word here (incorrect apostrophes!). Yury -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] n’t → n't
I like Oliver's idea. That way, en-US can change its caps, commas, typos, formatted vs non-formatted typography on a daily basis to their heart's content without kicking the rest of the planet into the neolithic, l10n-wise. If I may point out the commercial angle on this - I charge $35 an hour for Gaelic proofreading. Perhaps it's a little cheaper for more common languages but even so, every time the developers kick 4000 (linguistically) pointless string changes at all other locales because the feeling is they're needed in en-US, that amounts to (gut estimate) 12 hours work, so multiply that by 115 locales, it's causing the rough equivalent of a $40.000 translation bill. Yes, we're translating pro bono publico but it's still a callous way of treating donated lifetime. Michael > > Lets invent a new language in the world named Liboish - LibreOffice > language - that in fact is often confused with en_US, but it is not the > same. > > I suggest to create a new entry in Pootle, named en-US so that we get a > translation from Liboish to English. Other languages translates directly > from Liboish and we are all happy not to redo our work. > > (Apologizes for the inapropriate sense of humour, but I saw this extra > work comming months ago. 99% of my 4.4 UI was rework) > > -- > Olivier Hallot -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] n’t → n't
On 30/11/14 12:58, Jesper Hertel wrote: > But how come we would have to retranslate? It shows up as "untranslated", and the only way to change the status is to retranslate it, even if that retranslation is nothing more than a mouse click approving the existing translation. > to find a solution to avoid disturbing 115 people whenever a typo is found > in the English strings. The solution is for each variant of each language to be in Pootle as a target language. Corrections are made in the target_language_space, for each affected language, dialect, or cant. Rephrasing all that. Source_LibreOffice_language = Whatever the developers put in the strings to be translated. The language in those strings is irrelevant. Source_LibreOffice_language -> EN_ca Source_LibreOffice_language -> EN_nz Source_LibreOffice_language -> EN_uk Source_LibreOffice_language -> EN_us Source_LibreOffice_language -> En_za Source_LibreOffice_language -> DE_ar Source_LibreOffice_language -> DE_ch Source_LibreOffice_language -> DE_de Source_LibreOffice_language -> DE_na Source_LibreOffice_language -> DE_us etc Vocabulary found in Source_LibreOffice_language consists only of whatever the developers use/used. It is not, and need not correlate with any known language, whether natural, constructed, or artificial. >It must have happened several times before. It has. Every time it happens, a group of translators complains. Oliver's statement « People don't want to retranslate or review 4000 strings just because you changed apostrophes in en-US.» should not have been necessary, because fixing typographical conventions in one dialect of one language should _never_ require changes in another dialect, let alone another language. jonathon * English - detected * English * English -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] n’t → n't
On 30/11/2014 14:11, Mihovil Stanic wrote: > > 30.11.2014. u 9:10, Andras Timar je napisao/la: Program UI isn't a typography showcase. >>> Of course it is! We’re building an office suite, remember? An office >>> suite which has to do with typography a great lot. And even if it >>> didn’t, it’s supposed to demostrate a level of polish and leave a >>> better, lasting impression on users. They do care about these things, >>> I certainly do as well. Even amateurish OS X applications implement >>> typographic quotation marks. Recent versions of GNOME core >>> applications also do. Windows Store apps are also in the boat. It was >>> only a matter of time. >> Fair enough, but please invent a process that makes these cosmetical >> changes transparent for translators. People don't want to retranslate >> or review 4000 strings just because you changed apostrophes in en-US. >> Not to mention that many languages are unmaintaned in Pootle, >> >> Thanks, >> Andras >> > > I agree with Andras, Yury and other, we don't need yet another cosmetic > change which serves no purpose and only requires hours and hours of work > to get BACK to where we are now. > > First we had those UI popup changes which changed access keys from ~ to > _. Some strings also changed but most didn't have any change except > that. That dragged on for 2 or 3 major releases. > > Then in 4.4 we got some more cosmetic changes which add : on end of > strings. Hundred of strings stayed same except for that, but hey, hours > and hours of work again. > > In 4.4 I also noticed quite few strings which only change was first > capital letter on some or all words in string. I'm wondering if english > has ANY rules regarding spelling or you can just put capital letter > anywhere you want. Anyway, that was cosmetic change also, since all of > my strings stayed same. > > And now we have biggest challenge of all in front of us, let's change > thousands of string in a way noone will notice, just those lazy people > who have nothing else to do except retranslate same old string and try > to write it same as it was. That's hardly possible since we don't have > TM for new strings, only old. > > Anyway, as Andras said, do what you want, but please fix all > translations your self or do it in a way it doesn't affect hundreds of > people. > > Mihovil > Lets invent a new language in the world named Liboish - LibreOffice language - that in fact is often confused with en_US, but it is not the same. I suggest to create a new entry in Pootle, named en-US so that we get a translation from Liboish to English. Other languages translates directly from Liboish and we are all happy not to redo our work. (Apologizes for the inapropriate sense of humour, but I saw this extra work comming months ago. 99% of my 4.4 UI was rework) -- Olivier Hallot Comunidade LibreOffice http://ask.libreoffice.org/pt-br -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] n’t → n't
Hi, 2014.11.30 16:23, Christian Lohmaier wrote: >>> I agree this will be annoying, because at the very least, the localizers >>> will have to re-approve a lot of their old translations when these >>> changes land. At least in the case of "don't" though, maybe this change >>> could be automated, if we ask Andras or Christian nicely? :) > Well, the only thing that can be done is to apply the old strings > despite the typographic changes, i.e. do a run that maps all > typographic quotes back to simple variants and then try to find an old > translation for that string and apply it. > In other words: Change the English string to typographic quotes, and > take the translations from the non-typographic variant. > > So translators wouldn't need to retranslate, but also wouldn't see > what strings did change. If this can be done, I'm sure it would make most localizers happier. Especially in cases like "don't", where the translation most likely doesn't even contain the glyph that has changed. As for quotes, these most likely exist in localized content as well, but I'd say it has been localizer's responsibility to use typographically correct ones from the very beginning. And for those of us don't care about "typographical nonsense", forcing them to resubmit hundreds of strings will hardly change that stance. Changes to ellipsis characters should probably be applied automatically as well, except for a few locales (like Japanese), for which Unicode ellipsis is displayed as three vertically aligned dots, which at least a couple years back seems to have been very unexpected in application UIs. Regards, Rimas -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] n’t → n't
30.11.2014. u 9:10, Andras Timar je napisao/la: Program UI isn't a typography showcase. Of course it is! We’re building an office suite, remember? An office suite which has to do with typography a great lot. And even if it didn’t, it’s supposed to demostrate a level of polish and leave a better, lasting impression on users. They do care about these things, I certainly do as well. Even amateurish OS X applications implement typographic quotation marks. Recent versions of GNOME core applications also do. Windows Store apps are also in the boat. It was only a matter of time. Fair enough, but please invent a process that makes these cosmetical changes transparent for translators. People don't want to retranslate or review 4000 strings just because you changed apostrophes in en-US. Not to mention that many languages are unmaintaned in Pootle, Thanks, Andras I agree with Andras, Yury and other, we don't need yet another cosmetic change which serves no purpose and only requires hours and hours of work to get BACK to where we are now. First we had those UI popup changes which changed access keys from ~ to _. Some strings also changed but most didn't have any change except that. That dragged on for 2 or 3 major releases. Then in 4.4 we got some more cosmetic changes which add : on end of strings. Hundred of strings stayed same except for that, but hey, hours and hours of work again. In 4.4 I also noticed quite few strings which only change was first capital letter on some or all words in string. I'm wondering if english has ANY rules regarding spelling or you can just put capital letter anywhere you want. Anyway, that was cosmetic change also, since all of my strings stayed same. And now we have biggest challenge of all in front of us, let's change thousands of string in a way noone will notice, just those lazy people who have nothing else to do except retranslate same old string and try to write it same as it was. That's hardly possible since we don't have TM for new strings, only old. Anyway, as Andras said, do what you want, but please fix all translations your self or do it in a way it doesn't affect hundreds of people. Mihovil -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Different source files?
Den 30.11.2014 15:40, skreiv Christian Lohmaier: Hi Kolbjørn, *, On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 1:42 PM, Kolbjørn Stuestøl wrote: In the Pootle sides "All Languages LibreOffie 4.4 - UI" and " … 4.4 Help" the length of the original file (listed in Total) differs for different languages. In UI most languages are using an original file containing 99.604 words but some others contains over 100.000 words and a few a bit lesser. I thought all languages should use the same source file as a starting point. Yes, as *starting* point. But as for example by mistakes (like for example the post from the Kazakh team today) groups that use offline translation (i.e. upload files to translations) mess up and add additional files, or files with old/additional translations. And it can happen that they undo a "update against templates" run that way and thus there can be discrepancy in word count. It is also possible for project-level terminology files that change the overall wordcount (but those then don't end up in the product) ciao Christian Thank you, Christian. As I understand the word counting counts words in the translated file, not the original source file. So by deleting all lines of text that is commented out with #~ will perhaps give me the same count as in the source file. Providing no other errors. Kolbjoern -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] n’t → n't
On 11/30/2014 02:33 PM, Jesper Hertel wrote: Just because you do not like an idea or are afraid of its consequences there is no reason to shoot it down with sarcasm or other violent methods. That is never helpful. Oh dear. What to do then, if one doesn't like the idea and does NOT in fact have "fears", only dislike for the extra work for close to none good reason? I think sarcasm is valid here, likewise shooting down that which flies where it shouldn't. Anyway, I have suggested the *technology* of dealing with the problem generally, for ALL translations here. I have been exploiting the principle for years, back then. Yury -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Pootle error after uploading zip file with translations
On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 3:42 PM, Sophie wrote: > Hi, > Le 30/11/2014 10:28, Baurzhan Muftakhidinov a écrit : >> Good day, >> >> I've worked locally on translations, and then uploaded >> results to pootle in single zip file. >> In result, some internal folders are being shown on main page >> and the number of entries has doubled. >> >> See https://translations.documentfoundation.org/kk/libo_ui/ >> >> Could someone please fix this? > > you should be able to delete the extra folders using the Delete this > folder on the right. > Kind regards > Sophie > > > -- > Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org > Tel:+33683901545 > Co-founder - Release coordinator > The Document Foundation > > -- > To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org > Problems? > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted Ok, I've uploaded the same zip file again and it worked, Thanks for you help! -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Different source files?
Hi Kolbjørn, *, On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 1:42 PM, Kolbjørn Stuestøl wrote: > In the Pootle sides "All Languages LibreOffie 4.4 - UI" and " … 4.4 Help" > the length of the original file (listed in Total) differs for different > languages. > In UI most languages are using an original file containing 99.604 words but > some others contains over 100.000 words and a few a bit lesser. > I thought all languages should use the same source file as a starting point. Yes, as *starting* point. But as for example by mistakes (like for example the post from the Kazakh team today) groups that use offline translation (i.e. upload files to translations) mess up and add additional files, or files with old/additional translations. And it can happen that they undo a "update against templates" run that way and thus there can be discrepancy in word count. It is also possible for project-level terminology files that change the overall wordcount (but those then don't end up in the product) ciao Christian -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] I have updated the "Variables and symbols in the UI files" part of the "UI and Help files Content Guide"
Hi Jesper, Le 29/11/2014 14:47, Jesper Hertel a écrit : > Thank you for the clarification, Andras! > > While it may be hard to make rules for these things in LibreOffice, I > believe we as translators do need some rules (I know that I do). So that is > why I am trying to improve the existing rules, even though it may be a hard > task. Also, being a new translator, I probably have a fresh look at things, > which I would like to use to improve the existing internal documentation if > possible. Thanks for improving the guide. I wrote it for new comers and it's great that you correct it where it was not precise enough. Kind regards Sophie -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org Tel:+33683901545 Co-founder - Release coordinator The Document Foundation -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] n’t → n't
Hi Yury, *, On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 10:07 AM, Yury Tarasievich wrote: > > Well, as Adolfo tells us, it's "bah" to Windows users". However, Linux's > en_US keymap (which I'm using right now) also does not have any of mentioned > glyphs on the compose key. Compose sequences should be the same regardless of keybloard layout, you probably mean they're not accessible using group-switch key (altGr) directly. (they are indeed not in the crippled plain en-US layout, but are in the international layout) But compose sequences are also available: compose, apostroph, less/greater (or compose, less/greater, apostroph, order usually doesn't matter with compose sequences) i.e. compose, ', > → ’ compose, ', < → ‘ same with the double quotation marks: compose, ", compose, ", > → ” compose, ", < → “ compose, >, > and compose << will give » and « But with a keyboard-layout that actually makes use of the different groups, you can also enter it with [+]+, shift usually switching between the single or double variants ( ›‹ vs »« and “” vs ‘’ for example) > I'm heavily using several fancy glyphs input add-ons in LO itself, and I > tell you, it's not all fun. >> I agree this will be annoying, because at the very least, the localizers >> will have to re-approve a lot of their old translations when these >> changes land. At least in the case of "don't" though, maybe this change >> could be automated, if we ask Andras or Christian nicely? :) Well, the only thing that can be done is to apply the old strings despite the typographic changes, i.e. do a run that maps all typographic quotes back to simple variants and then try to find an old translation for that string and apply it. In other words: Change the English string to typographic quotes, and take the translations from the non-typographic variant. So translators wouldn't need to retranslate, but also wouldn't see what strings did change. ciao Christian -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] n’t → n't
2014-11-30 13:01 GMT+01:00 Martin Srebotnjak : > Hi, Jesper, > > in LO Pootle 135 translation teams are stated. If we take out about 20 > teams with really scarce tranlations, that means 115 teams. > > 5 changed strings in English UI x 115 = 575 changed strings in > localization po files to re-translate > 115 people being affected by this change. > > Very good with that type of facts. Thank you. I wonder how many changed or new strings there were for instance from 4.3 to 4.4, for comparison? Relative numbers are always better, to put things into perspective. My guess, as I do not have the numbers and do not know how to find them, is perhaps 500 changes? Given that guess, that would be 5 changes (well, actually 12, as the 5 were only "don't") compared to 500 changes, or around 2 % of the total work. But how come we would have to retranslate? Is there really no technical way to make a change in the English string that is known to be purely a correction to the English string with no effect on the translation? That seems odd to me – but of course I accept that not everything is the way we wish and that everything takes work to make. It just seems somewhat viable to find a solution to avoid disturbing 115 people whenever a typo is found in the English strings. It must have happened several times before. > I am not aggressive and do not fight, > Well, I disagree on that. You said: "a fork of LibreOffice would be viable, named PureOffice". I might have misunderstood, but I took that as sarcasm, and I see sarcasm (as opposed to irony) as aggression or hurtful emotional violence, in an attempt to redicule the other party. It is very possible to state one's opinions without resorting to that. > just state my views, which is the corner stone of democracy and > open-source mantra, I guess. > I absolutely agree! I have never said and never believed that one's views should not be stated – on the contrary! What I was talking about is the way they are stated. I believe they should be stated simply as views, but without putting other people down because they have differing views (as politicians so often do, which is why we are all tired of them). It is never necessary to put other people down because of their views. Just state your own view without putting other views down. That is what I am saying. > And it is my deep conviction that sarcasm should not be banned, > Well, we disagree on that. As I said, I see it as a form of emotional violence (as opposed to irony), and I really don't like that. I believe it is counter-productive and harmful. Maybe it shouldn't be directly banned, but I do believe it should be very minimized when speaking in a large forum like this. Just like other offensive ways of speaking are not welcome (like "f... you, you little s...!" :-)). > it is not illegal > I never said it was illegal, and I know of no countries where it is. > and it sometimes does put problems into perspective in a very direct and > fast way - so it can be quite useful. > Oh definitely, yes, and the same can be said about other types of violence (as I still believe it is): Definitely useful and powerful for the one using it, but also definitely hurtful for the victim. And I do not find personal usefulness with disregard to the victim to be a sufficient reason to actually use it. I do believe in staying with rationality and respect. I simply don't believe in violence, neither physical nor emotional (except perhaps for extreme and very rare cases for immediate defence against aggression). But, as I said, I believe very much in stating one's opinions and that all opinions are welcome. But respecting other's opinions without putting them down is an integral part of that, and sarcasm and other forms of emotional violence do have the effect of suppressing other people's views, as they become afraid of stating their opinion if it can result in emotional violence against them. That is exactly what is used by the leaders of oppressive political systems: They use physical and emotional violence to suppress people from expressing their views. For those leaders, it is very efficient, as you said, but for democracy and openness I really cannot see how it is helpful. Or did you mean that sarcasm is good both for the one using it and for the target? That the target will also find it is a good and constructive way of communicating? Do you think the use of sarcasm increases or lowers the aggression or amount of stress in the target? > > Lp, m. > > Best regards, Jesper -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] n’t → n't
Hi, Jesper, in LO Pootle 135 translation teams are stated. If we take out about 20 teams with really scarce tranlations, that means 115 teams. 5 changed strings in English UI x 115 = 575 changed strings in localization po files to re-translate 115 people being affected by this change. I am not aggressive and do not fight, just state my views, which is the corner stone of democracy and open-source mantra, I guess. And it is my deep conviction that sarcasm should not be banned, it is not illegal and it sometimes does put problems into perspective in a very direct and fast way - so it can be quite useful. Lp, m. 2014-11-30 12:33 GMT+01:00 Jesper Hertel : > Please, guys, those of you who want to fight, could you please step > outside and do that, so the rest of us can work? > > Just because you do not like an idea or are afraid of its consequences > there is no reason to shoot it down with sarcasm or other violent methods. > That is never helpful. > > If you have fears, which I see you all have, and for very good reasons, > simply state the fears. Then we can talk about them in a rational manner > and try to find a good, balanced and viable solution. Don't let the fears > turn into aggression. > > And if you can, supply exact numbers and sources to help show how big a > potential problem it is. > > Best regards, > Jesper > > > 2014-11-30 10:40 GMT+01:00 Martin Srebotnjak : > >> For those purposes a fork of LibreOffice would be viable, named >> PureOffice. >> But there would probably be no 100 % localizations provided for it. >> >> Lp, m. >> >> 2014-11-30 8:30 GMT+01:00 Adolfo Jayme Barrientos : >> >> > 2014-11-29 23:38 GMT-06:00 Yury Tarasievich said: >> > > Said recommendations, while formaly correct, are subverted by the fact >> > that >> > > there are no commonly accessible methods to keyboard-input all those >> > "fancy" >> > > glyphs. >> > >> > Wrong. >> > >> > OS X and Linux distros include punctuation (which is not “fancy” at >> > all) out-of-the-box in most keyboard layouts—the user does not have to >> > do anything weird to get these working. The only OS missing the fun in >> > Windows, but bah. >> > >> > > Program UI isn't a typography showcase. >> > >> > Of course it is! We’re building an office suite, remember? An office >> > suite which has to do with typography a great lot. And even if it >> > didn’t, it’s supposed to demostrate a level of polish and leave a >> > better, lasting impression on users. They do care about these things, >> > I certainly do as well. Even amateurish OS X applications implement >> > typographic quotation marks. Recent versions of GNOME core >> > applications also do. Windows Store apps are also in the boat. It was >> > only a matter of time. >> > >> > -- >> > To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org >> > Problems? >> > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ >> > Posting guidelines + more: >> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette >> > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ >> > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be >> > deleted >> > >> >> -- >> To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org >> Problems? >> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ >> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette >> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ >> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be >> deleted >> > > -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] n’t → n't
Please, guys, those of you who want to fight, could you please step outside and do that, so the rest of us can work? Just because you do not like an idea or are afraid of its consequences there is no reason to shoot it down with sarcasm or other violent methods. That is never helpful. If you have fears, which I see you all have, and for very good reasons, simply state the fears. Then we can talk about them in a rational manner and try to find a good, balanced and viable solution. Don't let the fears turn into aggression. And if you can, supply exact numbers and sources to help show how big a potential problem it is. Best regards, Jesper 2014-11-30 10:40 GMT+01:00 Martin Srebotnjak : > For those purposes a fork of LibreOffice would be viable, named PureOffice. > But there would probably be no 100 % localizations provided for it. > > Lp, m. > > 2014-11-30 8:30 GMT+01:00 Adolfo Jayme Barrientos : > > > 2014-11-29 23:38 GMT-06:00 Yury Tarasievich said: > > > Said recommendations, while formaly correct, are subverted by the fact > > that > > > there are no commonly accessible methods to keyboard-input all those > > "fancy" > > > glyphs. > > > > Wrong. > > > > OS X and Linux distros include punctuation (which is not “fancy” at > > all) out-of-the-box in most keyboard layouts—the user does not have to > > do anything weird to get these working. The only OS missing the fun in > > Windows, but bah. > > > > > Program UI isn't a typography showcase. > > > > Of course it is! We’re building an office suite, remember? An office > > suite which has to do with typography a great lot. And even if it > > didn’t, it’s supposed to demostrate a level of polish and leave a > > better, lasting impression on users. They do care about these things, > > I certainly do as well. Even amateurish OS X applications implement > > typographic quotation marks. Recent versions of GNOME core > > applications also do. Windows Store apps are also in the boat. It was > > only a matter of time. > > > > -- > > To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org > > Problems? > > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ > > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ > > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be > > deleted > > > > -- > To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org > Problems? > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be > deleted > -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] n’t → n't
On 11/30/2014 12:07 PM, Yury Tarasievich wrote: ... What's strictly "incorrect" in straight apostrophe, anyway? ... Anyway, here's an idea for you guys about to suffer from this: diff the en_US source before and after apostrophe nice-fication, then create a program which looks at the apostrophe-change IDs only in source, and at the corresponding IDs in your translation, and does only the apo-nice-fication of the translation (straight confirmation, for that matter) if the diff boils down to apostrophes. Shouldn't be too difficult, 10 years ago I was able to throw together AWK script doing approximately this for the Opera UI translation and maintain win/unix pair for a while with (almost) no pain. Yury -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-l10n] Ellipsis Extermination Front - Call to war
Hi Felow translators and devs Sorry for the sarcastic %Subject. Actually I call translators and devs to get rid of the single ellipsis label in buttons all over the UI. Having a sigle ellipsis in a button label almost hides the button, and for many users, the action behind the button is not understood or just not seen. I opened a bug entry for that https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=86871 Of course translators are free to change the ellipsis into a better choice. Regards -- Olivier Hallot Comunidade LibreOffice http://ask.libreoffice.org/pt-br -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Pootle error after uploading zip file with translations
Hi, Le 30/11/2014 10:28, Baurzhan Muftakhidinov a écrit : > Good day, > > I've worked locally on translations, and then uploaded > results to pootle in single zip file. > In result, some internal folders are being shown on main page > and the number of entries has doubled. > > See https://translations.documentfoundation.org/kk/libo_ui/ > > Could someone please fix this? you should be able to delete the extra folders using the Delete this folder on the right. Kind regards Sophie -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org Tel:+33683901545 Co-founder - Release coordinator The Document Foundation -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] n’t → n't
For those purposes a fork of LibreOffice would be viable, named PureOffice. But there would probably be no 100 % localizations provided for it. Lp, m. 2014-11-30 8:30 GMT+01:00 Adolfo Jayme Barrientos : > 2014-11-29 23:38 GMT-06:00 Yury Tarasievich said: > > Said recommendations, while formaly correct, are subverted by the fact > that > > there are no commonly accessible methods to keyboard-input all those > "fancy" > > glyphs. > > Wrong. > > OS X and Linux distros include punctuation (which is not “fancy” at > all) out-of-the-box in most keyboard layouts—the user does not have to > do anything weird to get these working. The only OS missing the fun in > Windows, but bah. > > > Program UI isn't a typography showcase. > > Of course it is! We’re building an office suite, remember? An office > suite which has to do with typography a great lot. And even if it > didn’t, it’s supposed to demostrate a level of polish and leave a > better, lasting impression on users. They do care about these things, > I certainly do as well. Even amateurish OS X applications implement > typographic quotation marks. Recent versions of GNOME core > applications also do. Windows Store apps are also in the boat. It was > only a matter of time. > > -- > To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org > Problems? > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be > deleted > -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-l10n] Pootle error after uploading zip file with translations
Good day, I've worked locally on translations, and then uploaded results to pootle in single zip file. In result, some internal folders are being shown on main page and the number of entries has doubled. See https://translations.documentfoundation.org/kk/libo_ui/ Could someone please fix this? Thanks, -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] n’t → n't
On 11/30/2014 11:23 AM, Rimas Kudelis wrote: 2014.11.30 07:38, Yury Tarasievich rašė: ... And if you use Windows and want to make inputting these characters even more convenient, you can always customize your keyboard layout adding missing typographical symbols to the AltGr (or any other) layer. Here's a free tool to do that: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/goglobal/bb964665.aspx. Well, as Adolfo tells us, it's "bah" to Windows users". However, Linux's en_US keymap (which I'm using right now) also does not have any of mentioned glyphs on the compose key. I'm heavily using several fancy glyphs input add-ons in LO itself, and I tell you, it's not all fun. Program UI isn't a typography showcase. Why not leave the pragmatic simplification which serves it purpose? Does it break anything? I agree this will be annoying, because at the very least, the localizers will have to re-approve a lot of their old translations when these changes land. At least in the case of "don't" though, maybe this change could be automated, if we ask Andras or Christian nicely? :) I can guess with some confidence that having to redo apostrophes in, like, thousand strings by hand (and you can't automate, apostrophe's use in technology being what it is) just to have "correct" characters in the UI feels more like a slap in a face. What's strictly "incorrect" in straight apostrophe, anyway? Is any REAL purpose actually served by this change? Like, will anybody notice this or appreciate this or-so-nice touch in the computer screen material? Will this conceal the fact that LibreO/ApacheOO itself isn't that great in typography in the documents it produces? Yury -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] n’t → n't
2014.11.30 07:38, Yury Tarasievich rašė: > On 11/30/2014 05:13 AM, Adolfo Jayme Barrientos wrote: > ... >> In case you guys didn’t know, Apple [1], Microsoft [2] and GNOME [3] >> are all recommending the use of typographical apostrophes and >> quotation marks, among other characters that have been historically > ... > > Said recommendations, while formaly correct, are subverted by the fact > that there are no commonly accessible methods to keyboard-input all > those "fancy" glyphs. > > In OpenOffice (and in Word?) you may have add-ons, auto-correcting > some of those cases. Otherwise than that you'd have to install > smarty-pants (often, pain-in-the-..., too) keyboard input correctors > or resort to mouse-clicking in the glyph tables. Just a reminder: in Pootle, it's possible to specify harder-to-input characters for each language, which are then made available below the text input field when localizing. While it's less convenient than inputting them with the keyboard, it's still better than having a separate character map application launched just to copy these few characters. Furthermore, I think Pootle even shows such Unicode characters in the source string as placeables, making them clickable. And if you use Windows and want to make inputting these characters even more convenient, you can always customize your keyboard layout adding missing typographical symbols to the AltGr (or any other) layer. Here's a free tool to do that: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/goglobal/bb964665.aspx. >> I am actually planning to update the rest of strings in LibreOffice to >> use the correct characters, but I guessed I had already annoyed the >> other translators too much for this version, so that would be in 4.5. > > So you will still annoy the translators, only more. > > Program UI isn't a typography showcase. Why not leave the pragmatic > simplification which serves it purpose? Does it break anything? I agree this will be annoying, because at the very least, the localizers will have to re-approve a lot of their old translations when these changes land. At least in the case of "don't" though, maybe this change could be automated, if we ask Andras or Christian nicely? :) Regards, Rimas -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] n’t → n't
On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 8:30 AM, Adolfo Jayme Barrientos wrote: > 2014-11-29 23:38 GMT-06:00 Yury Tarasievich said: >> Said recommendations, while formaly correct, are subverted by the fact that >> there are no commonly accessible methods to keyboard-input all those "fancy" >> glyphs. > > Wrong. > > OS X and Linux distros include punctuation (which is not “fancy” at > all) out-of-the-box in most keyboard layouts—the user does not have to > do anything weird to get these working. The only OS missing the fun in > Windows, but bah. > >> Program UI isn't a typography showcase. > > Of course it is! We’re building an office suite, remember? An office > suite which has to do with typography a great lot. And even if it > didn’t, it’s supposed to demostrate a level of polish and leave a > better, lasting impression on users. They do care about these things, > I certainly do as well. Even amateurish OS X applications implement > typographic quotation marks. Recent versions of GNOME core > applications also do. Windows Store apps are also in the boat. It was > only a matter of time. Fair enough, but please invent a process that makes these cosmetical changes transparent for translators. People don't want to retranslate or review 4000 strings just because you changed apostrophes in en-US. Not to mention that many languages are unmaintaned in Pootle, Thanks, Andras -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
