Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Fixing new spell out numbering styles in LibreOffice 6.1

[Rimas Kudelis]

hi,


2018.05.03 19:57, Németh László rašė:

Hi,

LibreOffice 6.1 will support “spell out” numbering styles of OOXML (One,
Two...; First, Second..., 1st, 2nd...),
as you can see in the following screen cast (only English, French and
German examples):

  https://youtu.be/c0j4Sjie8t4 

My questions to the native language speakers:

1. Are these numbers correct in your language?

You can check here, too: https://numbertext.github.io/
index.html#testimonials


Lithuanian seems quite OK.


2. Do we need to change the default format etc. according to the normal
usage of your country/language variant?

For example, in the recent implementation, British English and American
English differ with the “and”

101 -> “One hundred and one”: en-AU, en-GB, en-IE, en-NZ
101 -> “One hundred one”: en-US etc.


Not sure which format is the default.


3. Is it enough to support only a single gender in Spanish etc. languages
to cover common outline and page number usage in publishing?

Book/Part/Chapter/Section/Page/Paragraph One, or simply One (normal usage
in English outline numbering)
First Book/Part/Chapter/Section/Page/Paragraph (less common in English, but
default numbering styles cover this, too)

Note: there is a plan to use similar spell out formats in currency and date
formats of Writer, typical in contracts and invoices in several
languages. These formats are only supported in Calc yet by the NUMBERTEXT
Calc extension (or also in Writer macros via the new
com.sun.star.linguistic2.NumberText
service).


Not sure if these questions only apply to Spanish or not. I would 
certainly think it's best to support all possible genders.


Also, I noticed that two ways of spelling out are currently not 
supported for Lithuanian (Year and Formal number, whatever that is).


Also, the default currency is incorrect for Lituania. We switched to 
Euro a few years ago, but the library default is still LTL. This should 
definitely be changed, unless it's not that library, but some other...


Cheers,
Rimas

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Adding "Website" to localization

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi,

2017-02-16 18:33, Veneto ABC wrote:
> Could you add "Website" part to venetian localization, please?
> Thanks a lot.

sorry for the delay, I've just added it. It will take some time to
update from templates though.

Bear in mind though that this part is not about translating the website
per se, but only some of its parts. If you want to have a fully Venetian
website, you will have to not only translate these parts, but also have
a separate website created for you and fill it with content.

Best regards,
Rimas


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Hungarian - adding Old Hungarian

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hello Tamas,

since you're planning to use automatic transliteration from Hungarian
Latin locale into Hungarian Rovas using an application external to
Pootle, I won't be setting up any projects for your locale in Pootle,
because it makes very little sense to use it just for the submission
process.

You should be able to download Hungarian .po files by navigating to
https://translations.documentfoundation.org/hu/libo_ui/ and selecting
"Download for offline translation" on the right, or (which is probably
even better) by checking out complete "translations" project from git:
https://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/translations/ (clone URL's are
at the bottom of the page). Once you have applied your transliteration
magic and confirmed that it works well, you should consult Andras Timar,
with whom I believe you're already in contact, regarding further actions.

Regards,
Rimas


2016-08-29 13:22, Rovás Infó rašė:
> Hi developers,
>
> I would like to start a translation project.
>
> The Libreoffice will support the Old Hungarian from 5.3.0, so we should
> prepare the localization for translation.
>
> Language code: ISO 15925: Hung
>
> Libreoffice: Old Hungarian (Hungarian Rovas) [hu-Hung-HU] is on the
> language list,
>
> The script is Right-to-left direction, Unicode area: U+10C80–U+10CFF
> 
>
> Three letter ISO 639-3 code: ohu
>
> For Hungarian users, there are two ways:
>
> - *Hungarian-latin:* the user interface remain latin based (Hungarian
> (latin)), so there is no translation task. In this case the user can select
> the Rovas for writing, by selecting CLT (Old Hungarian).
>
> - *Hungarian rovas:* the user interface will be also based on Hungarian
> (rovas), so there need a translation (precisely transcription) from
> Hungarian (latin) into Hungarian (rovas). We have a translation solution to
> translate quickly, but I would need tables for bulk translation (CSV,
> whatever).
>
> The situation is similar to Serb languege, where there are two writing
> system.
>
> Thank you in advance,
>
> Tamas Rumi
>
>
>
>



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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Fwd: Adding a new language: szl (Silesian)

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi Gregory,

I've added szl to Pootle and to Terminology and LibreOffice Master UI
projects.  You are now the administrator for this language. If you want,
I can also add a list of special characters for use in translations,
which might not be available for easy entry using the keyboard. For
example, in Lithuanian, we have this list of such characters:

„“–…←↑→↓

CC'ing Christian Lohmaier, in case anything else has to be done with the
language.

Cheers, and happy translating!
Rimas


2016-08-29 11:19, Gregory Kulik wrote:
> Hi Rimas,
>
> Thank you for the reply. The differences between the variants are
> minor and they are perfectly mutually intelligible. It's just that
> certain suffix patterns are different and the ones we use in everyday
> speech might seem kind of odd for the Southerners. Nevertheless around
> 90% Silesian-speaking Silesians use the szl-PL patterns, so it might
> be fair to use them as szl, especially that all Silesian translations
> on Launchpad, Transifex and everywhere else are just szl and they are
> maintained by szl-PL speakers.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Gregory
>
>
> On 29.08.2016 06:56, Rimas Kudelis wrote:
>> Hi Gregory,
>>
>> I can add the language. Which one do I go with: szl_PL or just szl? Is
>> there enough in common between Czech and Polish variants to justify
>> having one of them as the base one?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Rimas
>>
>> 2016-08-28 23:17, Gregory Kulik wrote:
>>> Hi, could I get any answer for this? I'm starting to doubt it reached
>>> the mailing list. :)
>>>
>>> Thank you!
>>>
>>>  Forwarded Message 
>>>
>>> Subject: Adding a new language: szl (Silesian)
>>> Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2016 13:14:24 +0200
>>> From: Gregory Kulik 
>>> To: l10n@global.libreoffice.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi,a few days ago I filed a bug requesting an addition of Silesian
>>> (szl-PL specifically). Because I don't know if it shows up on Pootle
>>> automatically after that, I'd like to ask to add Silesian (szl). It
>>> might be necessary to add two varieties: szl-PL and szl-CZ because of
>>> the majority language influences in the respective countries.
>>> Plurals same as Polish:
>>> nplurals=3; plural=(n==1 ? 0 : n%10>=2 && n%10<=4 && (n%100<10 ||
>>> n%100>=20) ? 1 : 2);
>>>
>>> Thank you!
>>
>>
>



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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Fwd: Adding a new language: szl (Silesian)

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi Gregory,

I can add the language. Which one do I go with: szl_PL or just szl? Is
there enough in common between Czech and Polish variants to justify
having one of them as the base one?

Regards,
Rimas

2016-08-28 23:17, Gregory Kulik wrote:
> Hi, could I get any answer for this? I'm starting to doubt it reached
> the mailing list. :)
>
> Thank you!
>
>  Forwarded Message 
>
> Subject: Adding a new language: szl (Silesian)
> Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2016 13:14:24 +0200
> From: Gregory Kulik 
> To: l10n@global.libreoffice.org
>
>
>
> Hi,a few days ago I filed a bug requesting an addition of Silesian
> (szl-PL specifically). Because I don't know if it shows up on Pootle
> automatically after that, I'd like to ask to add Silesian (szl). It
> might be necessary to add two varieties: szl-PL and szl-CZ because of
> the majority language influences in the respective countries.
> Plurals same as Polish:
> nplurals=3; plural=(n==1 ? 0 : n%10>=2 && n%10<=4 && (n%100<10 ||
> n%100>=20) ? 1 : 2);
>
> Thank you!



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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] [HEADS UP] Community forum/askbot linked to LibreOffice

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi,

2016-08-22 18:41, Olivier Hallot wrote:
> The next LO 5.3 release will include a new entry in the applications
> help menu, "Get Help Online".
>
> Menu *Help -> Get Help Online*
>
> This entry aims to quick-link the software to a website with a
> community-driven contents localized website , such as a forum or askbot,
> to be open in the browser. The link will pass the language of your UI
> (not the locale!) to the TDF infra hub.
>
> IMPORTANT: this entry does not link to the wikihelp
> (help.libreoffice.org), which is accessed by menu *Help -> LibreOffice Help*

may I suggest to reevaluate names of these menu entries? When put next
to each other, they seem like pretty much equivalent. I think "Support
forum" would be a more appropriate name for the first one.

Cheers,
Rimas


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Deployment story

[Rimas Kudelis]

2016-07-13 16:46, Rimas Kudelis wrote:
> Hi!
>
> Just noticed this on my Facebook wall:  according to this article [1],
> Lithuanian police has migrated from Microsoft Office to LibreOffice on
> July 1st.
>
> Woohoo! :)
>
> Rimas
>
> [1]
> http://www.alfa.lt/straipsnis/50051682/lietuvos-policija-pereina-prie-atviro-kodo-programines-irangos

Oh, and here's the official PR from the police itself:
http://www.policija.lt/index.php?id=38492 .

Rimas

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[libreoffice-l10n] Deployment story

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi!

Just noticed this on my Facebook wall:  according to this article [1],
Lithuanian police has migrated from Microsoft Office to LibreOffice on
July 1st.

Woohoo! :)

Rimas

[1]
http://www.alfa.lt/straipsnis/50051682/lietuvos-policija-pereina-prie-atviro-kodo-programines-irangos



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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] [PROPOSAL] New project for dictionaries

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hello Dennis,

2016-04-25 13:13, Dennis Roczek wrote:
> <...>
>
> The TL;DR version: Provide a central place for dictionaries maintainers
> including useful tools plus a possibility for easier collaboration.
>
> <...>

I think the idea is awesome. One of the programs I localize currently
maintains its own list of dictionary URLs in XML format, and these point
to OOo mirrors, which I suppose are slowly going into oblivion...

Since Hunspell (with a few exceptions, I know) is pretty much the
de-facto spell checker in today's open-source applications (and not just
them), I think it may be beneficial to have a central repository to host
these dictionaries. Perhaps it would even make sense to adopt one of the
package formats as proposed/official, and then begin getting in touch
with application developers, suggesting that they adopt support for it.
Possibilities here are endless, for example, the repository could
(should) provide a generated listing of these dictionaries in some
pre-agreed format, so that application developers could parse it
automatically and allow users to download desired dictionaries and
install them without ever opening their browser. TDF might indeed be a
good candidate to host such repository.

Rimas



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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] 4.3 and 4.4 projects removal from Pootle

[Rimas Kudelis]

2016-04-20 08:10, Rimas Kudelis rašė:
> 2016-04-18 18:56, Sophie wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> To help Christian doing this once instead of a per language basis, who
>> is willing to have 4.4 and 4.3 projects removed from Pootle? Please, add
>> your language in this thread:
> I think LT should go.

Sorry, apparently, not. Please disregard my message above.

Rimas


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] 4.3 and 4.4 projects removal from Pootle

[Rimas Kudelis]

2016-04-18 18:56, Sophie wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> To help Christian doing this once instead of a per language basis, who
> is willing to have 4.4 and 4.3 projects removed from Pootle? Please, add
> your language in this thread:

I think LT should go.

Cheers,
Rimas

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] 4.3 and 4.4 projects removal from Pootle

[Rimas Kudelis]

2016-04-18 18:56, Sophie rašė:
> Hi all,
>
> To help Christian doing this once instead of a per language basis, who
> is willing to have 4.4 and 4.3 projects removed from Pootle? Please, add
> your language in this thread:

Hi Sophie,

why not ask who wants it kept instead (so that I'd know whom to frown
upon). :)

Rimas


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Removing old translation projects from Pootle

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi Christian,

2016-04-14 12:47, Christian Lohmaier rašė:
> I removed Spanish, Portuguese and Croatian from 4.3 and 4.4 projects.

 can you share the rationale for leaving these projects in Pootle at all?

Rimas


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Removing old translation projects from Pootle

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hello,

I second Kruno.

I really don't think that suggestions from old versions (which were
never approved) are carried onto the newer versions, but I also think
it's hardly justifiable to waste time hunting and carrying them one by
one into the newer branches (not with the typical speed of a heavily
loaded Pootle installation anyway).

Furthermore, just like Kruno wrote, all approved strings are carried
over to the newer branch when that branch gets introduced, so whatever
you lose from your translation, you lose either because the original
string has been changed, or because its identifier has been changed for
some reason, but even then, the original strings will typically show up
as suggestions for the new ones, and regarding the second reason in
particular, that is an infrastructure thing, which should ideally be
resolved by the L10n infra team (or whatever they are called), not the
localizers.

While it's not impossible that some strings might be removed from one
release just to reappear in another one, it's hardly common enough to
justify keeping these old branches indefinitely. On the other hand,
keeping them has some drawbacks as well: it means even more load on
Pootle, and might make an impression that it's worth spending time
updating L10n of these old releases (which it isn't, when the branch is
finalized and no new releases are planned). If you look at our Pootle
homepage (https://translations.documentfoundation.org/projects/), you'll
see that some contributors are still spending their time on 4.3 and 4.4
branches, and for what reason, when these branches are defunct already?
In my strong opinion, time spent on these obsolete branches today is
very much time uselessly wasted. Someone has contributed a change on 4.3
branch as recently as two days ago, and that branch hasn't had a release
for almost a year now. Even if that change was just carried over from
newer branches, it was pretty much pointless waste of time, at least in
my opinion.

All in all, I think these obsolete branches should be removed from
Pootle ASAP, or at the very least made read only.

I would probably even go as far as suggest localization teams to disable
anonymous contributions and any suggestions on all branches but one: the
one on which the team in question actually works and which could later
be morphed into the newer one, when the time comes. This way it would be
easier for incomplete locales to concentrate their effort, instead of
reviewing potentially conflicting suggestions on multiple branches.
Also, this would probably allow to not lose suggestions due to branch
change (although I'm not 100% sure about this).

Regards,
Rimas


2016-04-12 10:13, Kruno wrote:
> On 04/12/2016 05:49 AM, chandrakant dhutadmal wrote:
>> If so, in that case also it would be good to check what translations
>> were done by previous translators.
>
> I sure agree with that but my logic was that older translations get to
> newer versions so they are technically not lost. Translation you find
> 'correct' is included in newer version.
>
> If something is good in 4.4, it's making to 5.1, but if it's not, you
> are still gonna make suggestion that is and so it gets to 5.1.
>
> What's not translated in older, it's not gonna be in newer.
>
> I don't know if Pootle suggesting suggestion from older versions:
> don't know if you can see suggestions that where not approved for 4.4
> when you translating 5.1.
>
> But I do realize that differences in translations for different
> versions can be helpful (for comparing and such) and I'm not trying to
> argue that.
>
> Kruno
>
>
>>  
>>  On Monday, April 11, 2016 2:22 AM, Sérgio Marques
>>  wrote:
>>  
>>   Hi Mihovil
>>
>> For Portuguese you can remove 4.x projects for sure. We won´t touch it
>> anymore.
>>
>> 2016-04-09 10:39 GMT+01:00 Mihovil Stanić :
>>
>>> I see other languages have same projects also, so not sure if you can
>>> remove just ours (HR).
>>> But since 4.3 / 4.4 / 5.0 aren't used any more I think it's safe to
>>> remove
>>> it for everyone?
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Mihovil
>>>
>>> 08.04.2016 u 10:07, Kruno je napisao/la:
>>>
 Hi,

 I wonder if it's possible to remove old LO versions from Pootle for
 Croatian. We still have 4.3 and 4.4 so Pootle is suggesting
 translations
 from this projects as well but those suggestions are often outdated or
 wrong and seeing them in suggestion filed can be quite confusing and
 unnecessary.

 (And how helpful translation from 4.3 can be for translating master
 when
 everything from 4.3 already is in master, and we are just being
 suggested
 something we corrected)

 Thanks,
 Kruno


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: Develop hyphenation extension

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi Aleksandr,


2016-04-03 16:17, Aleksandr Andreev wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 2:52 PM, Rimas Kudelis  wrote:
>> The reason why I suspect it might belong to fonts is because there is
>> only one Unicode codepoint I know of serving this exact purpose (U+00AD
>> SOFT HYPHEN), and OpenType has a feature called "Localized forms", which
>> is designed exactly for cases like this (where glyph representation in
>> particular language is supposed to be different than usual). In
>> combination, these features seem to provide means to solve your problem.
>>
> You may be right that it belongs to the realm of Font Features
> (although that sounds like a terrible design flaw IMHO, given that LO
> has no mechanism currently to turn simple OpenType features on and off
> IIUC). But it certainly has nothing to do with the Soft Hyphen.
>
> According to the Unicode documentation (p. 268),
>
> Despite its name, U+00AD soft hyphen is not a hyphen, but rather an
> invisible format character used to indicate optional intraword breaks.
>
> And on p. 812 of the Standard:
>
> U+00AD soft hyphen (SHY) indicates an intraword break point, where a
> line break is preferred if a word must be hyphenated or otherwise
> broken across lines. Such
> break points are generally determined by an automatic hyphenator. SHY
> can be used with
> any script, but its use is generally limited to situations where users
> need to override the
> behavior of such a hyphenator.
>
> So, the SHY:
> * has no visible glyph, despite what some font manufacturers are doing;
> * is not a graphic character, but rather a format control character;
> * is not supposed to be used by an automatic hyphenator for hyphenation;
> * is supposed to be used by a user to *override* the behavior of an
> automatic hyphenator.

I see you've done your homework and did a bit more research than me.
Great! :)

With all the data you shared, I'm even more certain that this belongs to
the locale data, much like quotation characters and number formatting
characters. I'm not sure if this locale property is readily available
for inclusion in locale data though. It might be that Slavonic is a very
rare exception to the common rule of using hyphens for that, and that
this hasn't been accounted for anywhere. At least I couldn't find
anything about this neither in the LDML standard, nor in our DTD for
locale definition files
(https://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/plain/i18npool/source/localedata/data/locale.dtd).

Regards,
Rimas


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: Develop hyphenation extension

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hello Aleksandr,

2016-04-03 12:16, Aleksandr Andreev wrote:
>> Second question. The character commonly used in Church Slavonic for
>> hyphenation is the underscore, not the hyphen (e.g., hyphe_nation). In
>> TeX, I can simply set the hyphenchar to be _. Is this possible in
>> LibreOffice? If yes, where do I specify it?
> Does anyone know the answer to this question? Can I set the
> hyphenation character to be _ instead of -? Maybe in the locale data
> files? If not, is this a bug against LO or a bug against Hunspell?

I think this belongs to either locale data, as you are suggesting, or
perhaps even to the actual fonts you're using.

The reason why I suspect it might belong to fonts is because there is
only one Unicode codepoint I know of serving this exact purpose (U+00AD
SOFT HYPHEN), and OpenType has a feature called "Localized forms", which
is designed exactly for cases like this (where glyph representation in
particular language is supposed to be different than usual). In
combination, these features seem to provide means to solve your problem.

Rimas


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Request For Papiamento

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hello Ace, and welcome onboard!

I've just granted you (user name acesuares) admin permissions on our pap
project in Pootle. I suppose we probably should treat one of the
dialects of Papiamento as base, you can choose which one. We can add
projects for other dialects whenever feasible.

As you can probably see, we only have Terminology currently enabled for
Papiamento. Other projects can be enabled as necessary, just send a
request to the mailing list. Please also add your team(s) to the wiki
page at https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Language_Teams, so that
potential future volunteers have a point of contact.

Regards, and have a good ride!
Rimas


2016-02-21 17:23, Ace Suares wrote:
> Dear folks,
>
> Chris Leonard asked me to ask you leadership of the Papiamento team as
> no one is listed on the wiki.
>
> Short background:
>
> Papiamento is a language spoken by the inhabitants of Aruba, Curaçao
> and Bonaire.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papiamento
>
> It's ISO code is pap
>
> There are two different spellings, one for Aruba and one for the rest.
> pap_AW for Aruba,
> pap_CW for Curaçao
> and I propose
> pap_BQ for Bonaire since it has slight, but only very slight
> differences from pap_CW
>
> I did several projects regarding the language:
> - releasing the first Content Management System with a manual and
> interface in Papiamento (in 2003)
> http://www.qwikzite.com/index.php?topic=papiamentu
> - first open source spell checker (in 2011)
> (http://opencuracao.com/2011/09/software-freedom-day-17-sept-2011/)
> - development of locale (since 2012)
> http://www.it46.se/afrigen/export/ooo/pap_CW.xml (might be not the
> latest version!)
> - coordination of translation of Sugar (OLPC) as part of a UNESCO
> funded project (2013) (http://translate.sugarlabs.org/pap/)
> - improving spell checker and locale as part of a UNESCO funded
> project (2015) (URL will follow some day).
>
> Over time, a small team has formed, consisting of Dr Marta Dijkhoff
> (linguist), Mr. Manuel Ortega, Mr. Rendel Rosalia  and me.
>
> For now, it would be great to receive leadership of the Papiamento
> team in Libre Office, I would hope to delegate that role later, and
> also would work to get a team from Aruba on board.
>
> With regards, and open for suggestions or questions,
>
> Ace Suares
>
>
>
>
>



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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Pootle server error?

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi,

2015-12-21 15:18, Sophie wrote:
> Le 21/12/2015 13:20, Berend Ytsma a écrit :
>> Is the server error also the reason that Frisian isn't available for
>> translation?
> It's something different, I think Michael has had an issue in creating
> the language. If somebody else with admin rights could have a look, it
> would be great.

I just attempted to do that as well. The language gets "sort of"
created, but it doesn't become available for translation. I was goind to
do an "update from templates", but it seems this feature has been
temporarily removed from Pootle 2.7, and I don't think I have shell
access to the server anymore, so I can't do it the other way.

I'm not sure if this has anything to do with the background job
statistics noting that there are 65 pending and 1 failed jobs, and that
the background job status is stopped. Perhaps that has to be addressed
for Pootle to work properly?..

Rimas


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Help-files: Large-scale 'cosmetic' changes

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi,

2015-12-18 09:59, Jan Holesovsky wrote:
> But - what about to introduce an 'en_US' translation in the Pootle,
> where native speakers could improve the wording without changing the
> meaning?  Then once per the release cycle, these could be copied back in
> a way that it marks no translations fuzzy.

This question keeps popping up, doesn't it...

In my opinion, it's not a good idea.

First of all, I can't see how it helps in the long run: if you plan to
promote the en_US "translation" strings as source at some point, then
they will still be marked fuzzy at that given moment, and you would
still have to tackle that issue either by using some automation, or by
asking all other locales to update their translations. So, the problem
remains there, and the only change is that now you'd have to manage a
new pseudo-translation. And to write a script which promotes these
strings to the base.

On top of that (or if you don't plan to promote en-US strings as
source), I find rather awkward the idea of having "mostly proper
English, but sometimes bastardized by foreign developers" as the base
language. In my opinion, a much better idea would be to hook these
English to-be-localizers into any patch review process which involves
adding new strings. This way incorrect strings would simply not be
introduced into the application, as opposed to being introduced and then
fixed via a weird workaround.

Rimas



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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Need for a solid help content

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi,

2015-12-16 11:05, Michael Bauer wrote:
>
>
> Sgrìobh Sophie na leanas 16/12/2015 aig 08:56:
>> The help on the wiki is exactly the same as the built in help, it's
>> just an export from what you find on Pootle. 
> Seriously? Yikes...

Michael, look on the bright side: at least it's a single set of
information, not two concurrent efforts.

>> As already said numerous times here, the aim is to have the ability
>> to maintain the help in the wiki and still provide on line and off
>> line help. Not everybody has a connection at low cost, not everybody
>> is allowed to access the internet in his work, etc... For the moment,
>> Olivier, Jay, Lera are working on simplifying the use of the help
>> authoring extension, but it's until the remaining technical problems
>> with the export to the wiki are solved. Cheers Sophie 
>
> *to* the wiki? Shouldn't it be the other way round? I have seen
> in-built Help which was essentially a wiki export but never to date
> the other way round, at least not knowingly.


Well, the goal sounds good to me, and if we're moving towards it, that's
fine. I suppose that the content made available for localization is an
export from the English wiki, right? Otherwise, if the content is being
authored externally, and all wikis are just exports of that external
content, I'd say we shouldn't call them wikis at all.

Rimas



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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Need for a solid help content

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi All,

+1 on what Michael said about help.  I know that traditionally we've had
inbuilt help for a long time, and I know that some feel like it's really
important, but in my opinion, it's more of an emotional factor and
tradition than real need. I especially don't think that maintaining two
sets of help content (one for wiki, one for inbuilt files) independently
makes any sense, and I surely hope we don't do that. If some of us do
that, well, no offence, but in my opinion they're wasting their time. If
"offline help" is so crucial, can't we provide means to download or wiki
as a generated help file, or as a VM instead?

By the way, Oliver, I don't understand why a particular *type* of help
should be mentioned in an SLA at all. Do they charge differently for
questions covered in built-in help, or what? Would anything in the SLA's
have to change drastically if instead of opening the help file F1 would
open a wiki page in a browser?

Rimas

2015-12-13 21:26, Michael Bauer wrote:
> Olivier,
>
> What you wrote makes sense but seems to talk more about the online
> help rather than the inbuilt help. I can think of several commercial
> and OS tools off the top of my head which do not carry inbuilt help
> these days. Going to Help in Trados for example these days redirects
> you to the online Help whereas in the old days, there used to be
> inbuilt Help. Adobe also redirects to F1 user to online Help. MS
> Office only has vestiges of Help left ("Basic Help" in Word for
> example about using the Ribbon). Anything else you need to hit the
> Microsoft website for.
>
> It may be that inbuilt Help was once the norm but I do not think it's
> going to be the norm for much longer and for obvious reasons
> (maintaining it seems to be a bit of a nightmare, in contrast to
> things like wikis).
>
> Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that we need no form of
> documentation. It's just the inbuilt stuff which I personally feel is
> becoming more of a liability than a useful tool in LO. Perhaps
> other/most users *like* inbuilt Help, I don't know, I do not consider
> myself the arbiter of such things, which is why I said it would be
> nice if some research was done. But I get the feeling Help is shifting
> onto the web more and more and if that is the case and if there are
> good reasons, LO should contemplate this.
>
> Michael
>
> Sgrìobh Olivier Hallot na leanas 13/12/2015 aig 19:05:
>> There is a dimension where documentation get critical, and this is in
>> the enterprise and in the development. A software that does not carry
>> proper documentation is subject to several drawbacks. First, the help
>> desk of the enterprise need to get trained into the issues of
>> LibreOffice in the same way they need to addres MSOffice issues. For
>> that they need to know how the software works to assist the users.
>> Docs and references are crucial, together with proper professional
>> support. Second, the help desk is often charged per call. Enterprises
>> where user cannot find proper doc in their own language is facing a
>> higher TCO, because users call HD to get what they don't have at
>> hand. Third, in the way open source is developed and LibreOffice in
>> particular, there are no specs written in the canonical form a priori
>> before implementation (as it was in the OpenOffice.org times under
>> SUN/Oracle) and this is a choice LibreOffice made to offload all
>> hassle of development and rush into coding improvements long due. The
>> trade-off is a bunch of nice features very few know how to work and
>> the curious take much long time to figure it. Forth, by writing the
>> help pages we have a minimum of a reference guide to address bugs and
>> regressions. Without a reference, a regression is allway harder to
>> understand for the developer and the QA guys. Think about shortcut
>> ABC, that suddenty does not work anymore... how can the developer be
>> sure the sortcut was inded supposed to do what ABC was designed
>> originally So, users may not like the help content as we have
>> today and don't like to press F1, but it is our pursuit of quality
>> software to give them the best we can do in terms of documentation.
>> Admitedly our help system is not a piece of literature easy to read
>> (nor is MS Office too), but it must fullfill the mission to establish
>> the landmark of the sofware behaviour. Yes, "RTFM" comes to my mind
>> actually, but there must be an M somewhere. Finaly, other
>> documentation tools like public forums, books, wikis and even Google
>> are all stars of a documentation constellation but almost never
>> figure in a help desk SLA. As more litterature we produce on
>> LibreOffice, the best, because one of the steepest entry barrier we
>> have to propagate LibreOffice is its lack of culture in the office
>> suite marketplace, something MS already achieved long ago and is
>> extremely hard to displace. Of course, there is room for improvement.
>> The nice part of this is that it is well suited for the
>>

Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Request proper rights for Pootle

[Rimas Kudelis]

2015-12-15 22:36, Cor Nouws wrote:
> Rimas Kudelis wrote on 15-12-15 21:31:
>
>> well, Donné should register himself with the system and tell us his user
>> name before we can grant him any rights. :)
> AFAIK he did. Ah, username Donux. Sorry that I forgot to include that.
>

OK, done.

By the way, don't you have the permissions to manage your team?

Rimas

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Request proper rights for Pootle

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi Cor,

well, Donné should register himself with the system and tell us his user
name before we can grant him any rights. :)

Rimas



2015-12-15 11:57, Cor Nouws wrote:
> Hi friends,
>
> Donné, ton...@dds.nl, would love to have the proper rights to work in
> Pootle, Dutch.
>
> thanks for helping,
> Cor
>


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] New language request

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi,

2015-12-08 18:37, Sophie wrote:
> I agree with Christian here, LibreOffice is a very huge project, you
> will have a lot of concepts to define to create the right translation
> and a very long work on the glossary before beginning. If you really
> want to do localization, then try to find a lighter project, maybe like
> Firefox, which have less dialog boxes and globally less strings to
> translate. Or like Chistian said, translating documentation may be an
> alternative to begin.
> In any case, don't feel sad by our reaction, it's really to prevent you
> to waste your time on a project you will never finish, better to begin
> smaller and be happy to see the result than never see it and feel
> exhausted.
> If you need contacts with the Mozilla l10n team in case you're
> interested or other open source teams, let me know, I'll help you to
> reach their communities.
> Cheers
> Sophie

Just a note: while twice smaller than LibreOffice, Firefox is still a
huge project, especially if you want to translate it fully.

Rimas


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] New language request

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi Colin,

2015-12-08 16:23, Greater Worcester Land Trust wrote:
> Hello list,
> I read in the FAQ that you post here to request a new language effort.
> I am looking to start work on a Nipmuck localization.
>
> I have two conundrums:
> 1. I have no idea if anyone is even seeing this post, and
> 2. If this really is still the way to initiate a new localization.
>
> Any help on either of those would be great!

Yes, we do see it, and it's still the right way. I have a few questions
for you as well:
1. Have you subscribed to the list that you posted to
(l10n@global.libreoffice.org)?
2. Do you know the correct ISO code for your language? From glancing at
Wikipedia and some links from it, I assume it would be xlo?
3. A provocative one: are you sure localizing something as huge as
LibreOffice into an extinct (at least according to Wikipedia and its
sources) language makes sense?

Regards,

Rimas


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: Translation and Review rights Nepali (ne_NP)

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hello Saroj,

sorry for the delay. You now have the permissions you asked for.

Regards,
Rimas

2015-12-08 16:27, Saroj Dhakal rašė:
> Hello anyone seeing this post ?  Yes and if it is not the right place
> please point to the right place please .
>
> Desperately want translator and reviewer rights to be able to contribute !
>
> Thanks,
> Saroj
>
> 2015-12-05 14:43 GMT+05:45 Saroj Dhakal :
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Could you please grant me , translator and reviewer rights ? My profile is
>> here : https://translations.documentfoundation.org/user/sarojdhakal/
>>
>> My profiles in other projects for your reference :
>>
>>- Firefox l10n : http://mozilla.locamotion.org/user/sarojdhakal/
>>- Ubuntu l10n: https://launchpad.net/~lotusnagarkot
>>- Media Wiki l10n: https://goo.gl/Jn31Se
>>
>> We are currently launching a campaign to completely Localize Ubuntu in
>> Nepali and we believe that Libre Office is an important the part of it .
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Saroj
>>
>>


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Request of 2 words translation for Redmine

[Rimas Kudelis]

hi Sophie,

for Lithuanian:

label_history_tab_all: Istorija
label_history_tab_comments: Komentarai


Regards,
Rimas


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Where is Venetian project?

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi,

I wouldn't call this weird. I guess Dwayne and his team just decided it
makes more sense for Pootle to do this. I'd guess most localizers only
work on one language, so redirecting to that language automatically
makes sense.


Rimas


2015.06.16 20:06, Michael Bauer wrote:
> I can still see it:
> https://translations.documentfoundation.org/vec/
>
> Though there seems to be a weird redirect in place, when I try to access
> https://translations.documentfoundation.org/
> it automatically redirects me to the last locale I looked at (just
> now, vec, before then, I couldn't get away from gd...)
>
> Dwayne?
>
> Michael
>
> Sgrìobh Veneto ABC na leanas 16/06/2015 aig 17:08:
>> Hi to all.
>> After migration I can't find Venetian project that I started a few
>> week ago.
>>
>


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n]

[Rimas Kudelis]

Just to make it a bit less confusing, the _ and ~ characters are used to mark 
access keys. Four example, if you see _File or ~File, it means you can access 
that menu command by pressing Alt+F.


On 2015 m. birželis 9 d. 08:53:52 EEST, Martin Srebotnjak  
wrote:
>It is an accelerator, just as tilde, it is used in some dialogs
>
>Lp, m.
>9. jun. 2015 07:39 je oseba "Veneto ABC" 
>napisala:
>
>> Hi,
>> I need a little help, please: what does the symbol "_" added in some
>words
>> to be translated?
>> Thankyou for your answers.
>>
Rimas

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] New Language Dictionary/Spelling/AutoCorrect

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi Giovanni,


2015.05.29 19:24, Giovanni Caligaris wrote:
> I would like to have a Guarani dictionary/spelling/autocorrect in the
> future. I was wondering how to do it. Is it different for every OS
> (linux/win/mac)? Is it a Pootle project?

No, these are different projects, which have nothing to do with Pootle.

LibreOffice, just like a bunch of software, uses Hunspell and/or MySpell
(http://hunspell.sourceforge.net/) dictionaries for spell checking. This
is regardless of the operating system in use. Making a spellcheck
dictionary is quite a big task by itself. It seems there is (or at least
has been) a project on SourceForge to create such dictionaries for
Guarani: http://sourceforge.net/projects/guarani/. You may try
contacting the people behind that project to see if they have produced
anything of use. Even if not, perhaps they would be interested in
restarting.

If there is a spellchecker dictionary available for Guarani, with an
acceptable license, it might be possible to convert its files into
MySpell/HunSpell and use them.


Hyphenation dictionaries are another thing: they use a different format
and different data than the spellchecker dictionaries. I know for a fact
that TeX hyphenation dictionaries might be converted to a format
suitable for LibO, but perhaps it's not the only possible conversion. If
there is nothing to convert, such dictionary would have to be done from
scratch.

By the way, hyphenation dictionaries can also be used in other projects
(e.g. OpenOffice, Mozilla)


Autocorrect is a third type of dictionary, which is also different than
the other two. I think creating this dictionary might be the easiest
task of the three: I have written a basic online tool in PHP which could
help you crowdsource suggestions for autocorrect. At least that's what
it does for me.

Hope this helps. Sorry for not posting any links. I hope someone better
familiar with our wiki can post pointers to further relevant information.

Regards,
Rimas


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] New Guaraní

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi,

2015.04.24 00:45, Giovanni Caligaris wrote:
> Hello
>
> I was wondering if the Terminology folder could also be transfer from the
> old Guarani (gn) to the newer one (gug).

done.

> Also, shouldn't the new name be Paraguayan Guaraní or something along those
> lines? I know that 'gug' stands specifically for Paraguayan Guaraní. The
> language is also spoken in Argentina, Brazil and Bolivia.

Also done.

Regards,
Rimas


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Make Guarani available

[Rimas Kudelis]

Thanks Tom, it seems you're right: gn is considered a macrolanguage:
http://www-01.sil.org/iso639-3/documentation.asp?id=grn .

Regards,
Rimas


2015.02.20 16:40, Tom Davies rašė:
> Hi :) 
> My guess would be that there are a lot of variants, as there are with
> English (ie US, vs GB/Uk, vs Aus etc).  The 3 letter code makes it
> specific to the specific language rather than to the generic
> collection of languages. 
>
> Of course it might be that the country has at least 2 different
> languages and the 3 letter-code allows soemone else to translate for
> the other language someday. 
>
> Err, i am not sure if the question was aiming for a much more advanced
> level of understanding or just needed a little nudge like i just gave. 
> Regards from
> Tom :) 
>
>
> On 20 February 2015 at 14:24, Rimas Kudelis  <mailto:r...@akl.lt>> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> Just wondering: why do we need to change  the locale code?
>
> Rimas
>


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Make Guarani available

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi, 
Just wondering: why do we need to change  the locale code?

Rimas

On 2015 m. vasaris 20 d. 11:00:49 EET, Andras Timar  wrote:
>Hi Giovanni,
>
>On Fri, Feb 20, 2015 at 1:03 AM, Giovanni Caligaris
> wrote:

 I have sent an email before asking the Guarani pack to be able to
 download.

 They told me they were going to change the local code on pootle
>from Gn to
 Gug but never got done.
>
>Who told you that? I asked Cloph to change gn to gug, but he is rather
>busy.
>
>

 I have reached 33% now, and have completed the sw, sd, sc
>(uiconfig)
 folders and have done some work on other folders.

 I would like to know if there's anything I can do to make the pack
 available.

>
>Guarani is targetted for LibreOffice 4.5. First language packs will be
>available from TDF  with 4.5 betas. See the release plan.
>http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleasePlan
>
>However, you can always build LibreOffice yourself from source code,
>see https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development
>We can help you, if you get stuck.
>
>Best regards,
>Andras
>
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: New language Nahualt (nah)

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi Daniel,

2015.02.10 02:50, Daniel Espinosa wrote
> I would like to start, with the help of translators in Mexico, LibreOffice
> Nahuatl translation project. For this project:
>
> Language Name: Nahuatl
> ISO Code: nah
> Microsoft ID: Not found.
> Character Set: ISO/IEC 8859-1
> Currency: MXP
> Date Format: ISO 8601, DD/MM/YY, DD/MMM/
> Numbers as for: es_MX
> Plural form: nplurals=2; plural=(n != 1);
>
> Language information:
>
> A native language spoken in Mexico, with more than 28 variants. Country
> official language is Spanish, then setup Pootle to show existing
> translations in Spanish will help native translators to get work done.

First of all: welcome onboard!

As I can see, you have already registered yourself with Pootle. I've
granted your user (daniel.espinosa) administrator permissions on Nahuatl
(nah). I have also initialized LibreOffice 4.4 UI and Terminology
projects for your language on Pootle, so basically, you can start
working right away. But please read on. :)

It seems (and you wrote it yourself) that 'nah' is the code for a whole
bunch of languages, not a particular one. I don't know how different
they are, but if they are different enough to the level that treating
them as one and translating into "unified Nahuatl" doesn't make much
sense, perhaps you should use a different language code? For your
reference, there is a convenient list of languages with their ISO 639-3
codes in the sidebar here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nahuan_languages
. If you think that there is a better suitable code for your language,
please let me know before you start translating, so I can delete nah and
initialize a different language for you.

Once the language code question is resolved, here are some resources to
get you started:
- https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Translating_LibreOffice (our most
current Localization guide)
- https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/LibreOffice_Localization_Guide
(older Localization guide, mostly obsoleted by the page above)
Also pages linked from:
- https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Language
- https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Category:L10n

Finally, please add yourself and your team to the following Wiki page so
that others can find you easily:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Language_Teams

Regards,
Rimas


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Updating against templates

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi,

2015.01.31 13:16, Michael Bauer rašė:
>
> Sgrìobh Christian Lohmaier na leanas 31/01/2015 aig 07:48:
>>
>> I absolutely don't get why you're attempting to use the update
>> against templates from the web.
>>
> Because there have been no new strings in 4.4 and since it has
> happened before that there WERE new strings and the simply weren't
> coming through, I thought I'd 'check'
>>
>> Over and over we have stated that this can lead to intermixed
>> translations and thus people should not use it.
>>
> Well, it's news to me. Perhaps we should change the wording on the
> Check against templates button to 'Don't use this button'
>>
>> So unless you at least state the project and language and reason for
>> running it, I don't want to spend time on that.

Perhaps we should just hide or disable that button if it just messes up
the translation instead of doing what it claims to? :)

Rimas


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-projects] Re: Workflow between dev, UX and l10n teams

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi,

2015.01.29 11:20, Stephan Bergmann wrote:
> On 01/28/2015 08:02 PM, Rimas Kudelis wrote:
>> On day X time Y, we close down the affected Pootle project, push its
>> localizations into git, then somebody who's in charge checks them out of
>> git and runs the script. When the script finishes its work, the
>> resulting files are committed back to git, imported back to Pootle and
>> the project is re-opened for translation. Once that is done, an
>> announcement should be sent to the L10n list with huge thanks for
>> everyone's patience and kudos to everybody involved in the process. And
>> we all live happily ever after. :)
> [...]
>> * The scripts might be buggy
>>  - Obviously, each time they should be tested in advance with at
>> least some real data and their result should be validated before
>> committing.
>
> Yeah, its vital that the script will be run in a way that can be tried
> locally and in advance by any script-writing developer (i.e., that the
> script will ultimately be run on the git data, not on some pootle data).

Yes, when I'm talking about scripting stuff, it must be done on raw git
data.

>> On the bright side, I hope the massive changes we are talking about here
>> will be less and less frequent, making this issue less and less
>> relevant. From my understanding, we've already changed three dots with
>> ellipses and straight quotes with curly ones, there shouldn't be much
>> more typography to improve on, is there? :)
>
> Typographic changes should rarely be scriptable across all locales
> anyway, I guess.  (Even the ellipsis change might not have been, given
> there's not only U+2026 HORIZONTAL ELLIPSIS but at least also U+0EAF
> LAO ELLIPSIS and U+1801 MONGOLIAN ELLIPSIS.)

Furthermore, that's why I emphasized the need to be able to opt out of
the scriptable change: some locales might need different case-by-case
handling than others. But even your example is still easily scriptable,
you just need three (or maybe four) variations of the same script: one
for most locales, one for Lao, one for Mongolian and one for Japanese
(or perhaps all CJK locales).

Rimas


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[libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-projects] Re: Workflow between dev, UX and l10n teams

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi Stephan,

2015.01.28 11:20, Stephan Bergmann wrote:
> When talking about (developer-side) scripting, is it actually OK to
> commit modifications to the translations in the translations git
> sub-repo?  My understanding was that such modifications would be
> overwritten by the next "import commit" (as typically done by Andras,
> AFAIU from some Pootle database).

The process as I see it would be somewhat like the following: when we
have a big enough string change, which can be scripted coming up, it
should be announced at least a few days in advance, that on day X time
Y, this change will land. Localizers should be allowed to choose whether
or not they want that particular big automatic change transparently
ported to their locales, with a sane default for those who don't voice
their choice by deadline (I suppose that usually the default should be
to perform the change for them as well).

On day X time Y, we close down the affected Pootle project, push its
localizations into git, then somebody who's in charge checks them out of
git and runs the script. When the script finishes its work, the
resulting files are committed back to git, imported back to Pootle and
the project is re-opened for translation. Once that is done, an
announcement should be sent to the L10n list with huge thanks for
everyone's patience and kudos to everybody involved in the process. And
we all live happily ever after. :)

Possible risks that I came up with:
* The process of exporting files from Pootle or importing them back
might take hours
- I don't expect localizers to be too angry about that, because they
can do other stuff meanwhile (such as enjoy their Real Life or work on
other projects).
* The scripts might be buggy
- Obviously, each time they should be tested in advance with at
least some real data and their result should be validated before committing.
* Some localizers might be too late to the train with their changes
-  Well, first of all, they shouldn't be, but then we could also
have some buffer timeframe to cope with this issue.

On the bright side, I hope the massive changes we are talking about here
will be less and less frequent, making this issue less and less
relevant. From my understanding, we've already changed three dots with
ellipses and straight quotes with curly ones, there shouldn't be much
more typography to improve on, is there? :)

Rimas



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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: Workflow between dev, UX and l10n teams

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi Jan,


2015.01.26 16:43, Jan Holesovsky rašė:
> Mihovil Stanić píše v Po 26. 01. 2015 v 10:25 +0100:
>
>> Cosmetic changes (~ to _ or "Status" to "Status:" or ... to … or those 
>> different quote styles I don't even have on my keyboard) and anything 
>> similliar - NOT OK if you don't script it for all languages
>> Cosmetic changes ("Big brown fox" -> "Big Brown Fox") - NOT OK at all, 
>> change just for en_us, don't change my strings and don't even notify me 
>> you did it in en_us
> I see 2 problems here:
>
> 1) There is no tool that would detect these trivial changes, and would
>act accordingly.
>
>
> Regarding 1) - I thought that Pootle is detecting the trivial changes
> some way, and offering the original translation.  Is it not?  What can
> be done to improve that, so that for translators it is just a matter of
> checking; not a matter of translating?  [Or even what you suggest - that
> it would just update the source strings without touching the
> translations?]

Pootle does offer the original translation, but the localizer still has
to approve it.

Furthermore, Pootle does not apply any automatic changes. If you had
e.g. "Some ~string", and you change it to "Some _string", Pootle will
show the original translation as a hint, but the user will still have to
port this trivial change to the translation manually.

Needless to say, sometimes these minor differences avoid being noticed
by the localizers, which results in errors in the locale (I've seen
incorrect access key identifiers in the menus at least once).

However, while you are correct that there is no tool to detect these
changes, I don't think there has to be. The person who implements the
change knows better than anyone whether or not it can be automated,
perhaps they even automated it themselves. For example, I seriously
doubt that somebody went over all L10n files and changed triple dots to
ellipses manually, this was most likely a scripted change. Same, or very
similar, script would have probably worked with all other locales, but I
guess that person simply didn't think about it.

Similarly, changes in used quote characters most likely could have been
isolated and transplanted to locales.

Adding colons to certain strings only would probably have been slightly
more difficult, but still scriptable.

And none of that requires any "tool to detect trivial changes"... ;)


> 2) The texts for translations are updated in big 'code' drops, without
>possibility for translators to affect the process in any way - for
>them it is too late.
>
>
> Regarding 2) - I'm glad that you say that the strings will be now
> getting to Pootle immediately after the code / string changes in master.
> I think it is important that the translators will be able to deal with
> the changes immediately, not several months later, so that they can
> cooperate, and not only react.
>
> In general, I don't think that setting extremely strict rules works,
> unless you have means how to enforce them - like via a commit hook or so
> (and it is extremely unpopular way to do things).
>
> It is always much better to communicate - if you see a developer who
> commits a change that causes you grief, please _do_ tell _him/her_
> immediately, and - if possible - in a friendly way.  I'm sure he/she
> will do much better the next time.
>
> Unfortunately I did not see any signs of notice that this or that change
> was problematic for localization on the development mailing list - were
> there such warnings there?  Like "commit XY caused AB - please don't do
> such things, unless we agree how to do that effectively / without pain"?
> Or was it impossible so far because the strings in Pootle were not
> synced with master?

I fully agree with you here, and yes, so far communicating these issues
was really difficult because these massive changes appeared in front of
the localizers' eyes way too late in the process.

Regards,
Rimas


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[libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-projects] Re: Workflow between dev, UX and l10n teams

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi,

2015.01.26 17:40, Jan Holesovsky rašė:
> Sophie píše v Po 26. 01. 2015 v 16:19 +0100:
>
>> That's why we were thinking of a en_US version as a real language and
>> different from the sources and
> But at some stage this will have to apply to the sources - and at that
> time, it will be even worse than now :-(  I'm afraid having en_US as a
> separate language will make the situation worse, not better.
>
>>  also about scripting changes when
>> possible (like the substitution of ~ by _)
> Sure - so I think this was something that could have been automatized
> with a trivial script; when this was noticed for the first time, please?
> Pity that it was not brought to the ESC as a problem...

I just wanted to say that I'm fully with Jan on these two statements: I
believe that the right thing to do is automation of massive trivial
changes, not a separate pseudo-locale where strings with developer
mistakes and/or without enough clarity would be carved in stone. Having
that pseudo-locale would not help us solve half of cosmetic issues, such
as added colons or changed access keys, these would require scripting
anyway. The issues it would solve are either also scriptable
(typographical or letter case changes) or should be rare by their nature
(typo fixes or sentence improvements; now that some teams work on
master, these should occur in branches even less frequently). On the
other hand, having that source locale would introduce a yet another
level of complexity by forcing each developer to decide where each
string change should go, and if you are thinking about making a single
person or two accountable for these decisions, then why not ask them to
instead review strings that are about to be landed into en-US?

In general, I think it's kind of sloppy (sorry, can't think of a right
word right now) to leave miss-worded strings in the source as they are,
and fix them in a separate locale instead. I don't know how many fixes
like that (specifically excluding typography, colons and similar massive
replacements) end up in each release, but assuming there aren't many
(e.g. a dozen or two), I really don't think they deserve all this fuss.

Regards,
Rimas


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Most important folders (Guarani)

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi,

couple questions.

Shouldn't we use the short locale code when it is available (in this case, gn 
instead of gug)?

Also, shouldn't we treat one of the Guarani locales as the base one (that is, 
use only the language code for it, without specifying the region code)? I'm not 
speaking with absolute certainty here, but I only know one exception to this 
rule of thumb so far (Chinese).

Either way, gug-PY looks superfluous: gug already means "Paraguayan Guarani", 
according to ISO 639-3.

Rimas

On 2015 m. sausio 23 d. 16:17:31 EET, Andras Timar  wrote:
>On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 2:15 PM, Giovanni Caligaris
> wrote:
>> I am only doing a Paraguayan-Guarani translation.
>
>In this case it would be good to use the specific "gug" language code
>everywhere. I was looking fog "gn" in locale data, that's why I asked
>you, if you have had it submitted.
>
>I can add Guarani translations to the build (to master for the time
>being) in the next days.
>
>Regards,
>Andras
>
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: Pootle terminology

[Rimas Kudelis]

2014.12.21 16:36, Mihovil Stanic rašė:
>
> 21.12.2014. u 15:24, Rimas Kudelis je napisao/la:
>> It is this way because you (or maybe someone else) made it that way.
>> ... If you would like to have the Terminology project enabled for
>> Croatian, just ask.
>
> Robert was active when LO project started, he probably asked for that.
> When I joined few years ago, it was already like that.
>
> Please, make it seperate project then if that will increase it's
> usability.
>
> Mihovil
>

Added a separate project. You can now upload the files you want to it,
and delete the per-project terminology files.

If you don't have global permission for Croatian, just give me your
username, and I'll give them to you.

Regards,
Rimas


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: Pootle terminology

[Rimas Kudelis]

2014.12.21 15:17, Mihovil Stanic rašė:
>
> 21.12.2014. u 13:43, Jesper Hertel je napisao/la:
>> I know it is possible in Pootle to search and edit terminology entries
>> online. (In the Danish project, it happens at
>> https://translations.documentfoundation.org/da/terminology/translate/#filter=all
>>
>> ).
>>
>> I can see that this has not been set up for Croatian (hr); the URL
>> https://translations.documentfoundation.org/hr/terminology/ leeds
>> nowhere.
>>
> Croatian terminology file is located here:
> https://translations.documentfoundation.org/hr/libo_ui/pootle-terminology.po
>
>
> Inside libo_ui directory. Not sure why, but I noticed some other
> languages have it same way.
> Anyway, I don't mind having it that way.

It is this way because you (or maybe someone else) made it that way. The
pootle-terminology.po file inside a translation project holds
terminology that is specific to that particular translation project
(libo-ui in this case) and should not be used in other projects (such as
website, android, libo*_help and other libo*_ui projects). Managing
terminology that way is rather suboptimal for our case, in my opinion,
but the choice is yours.

Meanwhile, the Danish Terminology, to which Jesper pointed, is global to
our Pootle instance. The terms from it will be suggested for all
translation projects within our Pootle.

If you would like to have the Terminology project enabled for Croatian,
just ask. Once it is enabled, you can upload any files you want to it,
and manage them, as Jesper pointed out (although I guess that management
interface is still not as good as it could be).

>>> - would be nice to add translation for new entry in same step,
>>> curently I
>>> can add new entry, then go to language main page, select "needs
>>> translation" in termnology and then enter translation
>>>
>> I didn't understand that. Maybe that is Virtaal related?
>>
>
> When I add new entry to terminology file:
> https://translations.documentfoundation.org/hr/libo_ui/terminology_manage.html
>
>
> I can only add original string, for example word "target" and then
> save it. I cannot add translation "cilj" in same step.
> To add translation, I have to go to main libo_ui directory, select
> "untranslated strings" from pootle terminology file and then translate it.

This looks like a good feature request for Pootle. :)

Rimas



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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Cosmetic changes?

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi,

2014.12.14 15:04, Tom Davies wrote:
> My last "hare-brained" idea was blatantly flawed.  Thanks to Yury (i think)
> and someone else for shooting it down quickly before it went anywhere! :)
> Sorry about that!
>
> It sounds like there is scope for a lot of automation.  There might already
> be ways of doing it.
>
> 1.  Can fuzzy strings be accepted "en masse", preferably by large-scale
> selection?  (I'm guessing there isn't at the moment)
>
> 2.  Is there an "undo"?
>
> 3.  Can individual strings "undo" to get single strings back to being fuzzy?
>
> Also, is there a way of getting an extremely large selection of strings
> grouped in some way so that people can see the whole group had 1 specific
> change?  Even fairly small groupings might help a bit!
>

As far as I know, there is no Undo functionality in Pootle. Once you
submit a string, its old version is gone for good. Same goes for
grouping strings by changes: while this might be an interesting idea, I
don't think it is currently possible in Pootle.

And now to my main point (your first question)

As far as I know, Pootle operates on single strings, not on groups. But
even if it did operate on groups, it would be hard to tell whether or
not a particular fuzzy string should be approved without looking at it,
so it wouldn't really help that much. On top of that, it would still
waste someone's time.

I still believe that the right way to implement typography improvements
(and case improvements in most cases) is to transplant such changes to
localized files invisibly. Ideally, it would be done with a prior notice
such as "please upload all your work by day X hour Y so we can base this
migration on your latest work and none of it is being lost".

Same applies to accelerator character change (~ to _).

Even changes like adding a colon at the end of a string (of which people
also complained) should be ported to most locales automatically,
allowing locales to opt-out if they want to do that manually (although I
guess locales should be allowed to opt-out in all cases anyway).

I don't really follow this mailing list too closely, so I might be
wrong, but I would speculate that perhaps the main reason why we ended
up all whining and pointing fingers and sometimes speaking badly of
other people in this thread is the lack of internal communication,
proper planning and preparation. Someone came up with a great idea to
easily improve a massive amount of source strings, but maybe that person
didn't even consider the amount of workload that such change would bring
to the L10n teams. Someone else liked the idea, but did not consider
L10n as well. I can actually relate quite easily to these people – they
are developers, not localizers, it's quite likely that they don't even
know how our L10n process works. So, they liked the idea, and their
changes hit the fan, splashing "typographical nonsense" on everyone.

Had the plans to change such a big amount of strings been communicated
to the localizers well in advance, a red flag would probably have been
raised, and then better preparation (in the form of automatic conversion
scripts) would have been made in anticipation of these changes. Then
everything would be much smoother and we wouldn't waste our time
repeatedly expressing how annoyed and underappreciated we are feeling.

I guess things like these have to be learnt by developers the hard way.
Which is why it's very important that our dissatisfaction with these
issues is communicated to the dev team properly and that they note it
and don't forget it in future. This is also where at least a few L10n
teams working directly on master would help: noticing such unexpected
massive changes early enough should open the door for backing them out
and delaying their re-landing until necessary preparations would be made.

Anyway, I think I've already said all this a couple times before. Time
to sleep. :)

Cheers,
Rimas


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Cosmetic changes?

[Rimas Kudelis]

hi,

2014.12.14 13:48, Olivier Hallot wrote:
> On 14/12/2014 06:59, Rimas Kudelis wrote:
>> It should be. You can look at it the other way around: anything that
>> gets in the source should consistently be en_US, not just
>> whatever_lingo_the_developer_had_in_mind.
>>
>> Rimas
> You're right and that is the way it has to be.
>
> We face the issue that LibreOffice developers are mostly not English
> native speakers, and they are much less often graduated in English
> litterature. Mistakes and poor clarity are introduced in their strings
> quite naturally and often. That is the way it is and we live with it
> since OpenOffice.org.

Which is why I'm advocating string review process, if only it is
possible. It's perfectly normal that some of us have trouble writing
concise  and typographically correct English. But isn't it similar to
writing buggy code? We do have code reviews, where someone else with the
right set of knowledge reviews code patches. So why not have a similar
process for string changes? Why not ask somebody who maybe can't code,
but knows English (including typographical stuff) well to review the
strings that are being changed or newly introduced?

Now that I think of it, if we have UX reviews (and if we don't, we
should), strings might just fall into that category.

> Reviewing en-US is a good thing once in a while, even if it gives us
> more work, and I expect once fixed it will not change anymore.

Reviewing en-US is a good thing for sure. I believe however, that when
we have massive changes, which can be automatically transferred to
localized resources without degrading l10n quality, we should transfer
them automatically (maybe on a per locale opt-in or opt-out basis). What
has been happening lately (and is explained in Michael's examples) is
indeed a major messup (mismanagement, if you like). Few more cases like
this, and LibO will start losing localizers. This thread is a clear warning.

> As a side note, devs don't even write help pages to explain their new
> features, and this doesn't help our translation job too.

Devs don't have to write help pages. However, when others writes these
help pages, they could be the ones raising a flag about string quality
issues.

Rimas


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Cosmetic changes?

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi,

2014.12.14 02:43, jonathon wrote:
> On 13/12/14 21:45, Khaled Hosny wrote:
>
>>> Changes made in one dialect of one language should neither affect, nor
>>> effect changes in other dialects of the same language, much less other
>>> languages.
>> Huh? English (US) is the “source” language, 
> Treating en_US, en_DE, en_UK, or any variant thereof as the "source"
> language is, at best, translation mismanagement.

No. Translation mismanagement was propagating these cosmetic changes to
Pootle without having automatically updated localized Gettext files.

> The more fundamental error is assuming that what is in source is
> consistently en_US, or any other en_* variant.

It should be. You can look at it the other way around: anything that
gets in the source should consistently be en_US, not just
whatever_lingo_the_developer_had_in_mind.

Rimas


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Follow-up on en_US changes

[Rimas Kudelis]

IMO bad quality of English strings can be improved by having some l10m teams 
work on Master (and spotting these bad strings early enough), and that is being 
discussed in parallel.

Also, perhaps requiring string reviews on patches with new or changed strings 
could be an option. I'm pretty sure we could find someone to gladly do these 
reviews within the community. :-)

Rimas

On 2014 m. gruodis 4 d. 08:06:12 EET, Yury Tarasievich 
 wrote:
>I may be completely misunderstanding this, but 
>it seems to me the point is the en_US strings 
>should be translations as well. That would put 
>much needed damper on the changes introduced 
>"just because they can be introduced". As a 
>secondary gain, translations are (hopefully) 
>created by folks with at least some native 
>language preparation; right now "master" strings 
>"which anybody can write" -- as I know from my 
>own practice and from this list -- may be 
>awkward in expression and/or convoluted in 
>meaning (fixing which creates more work for 
>everybody).
>
>Yury
>
>On 12/04/2014 02:58 AM, Jesper Hertel wrote:
>> 2014-12-01 14:57 GMT+01:00 Sophie :
>...
>>> Some changes are necessary and the en_US version has to be
>maintained
>>> too but that shouldn't have an impact or at least, as limited as
>>> possible on the l10n work.
>> I do believe discussing the English strings are somewhat related to
>the
>> translation of them, so maybe because of that I fail to see a very
>sharp
>> division between them and the localization. The English strings are,
>in
>> principle, also a type of localization, I would say. They just have a
>much
>> higher authority, as they become the authoritative source for the
>rest of
>> the localizations.
>...
>
>Yury
>
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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] n’t → n't

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi Christian,

2014.12.01 00:32, Christian Lohmaier wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 10:16 PM, Olivier Hallot
>  wrote:
>> On 30/11/2014 18:52, Rimas Kudelis wrote:
>>> 2014.11.30 19:13, Olivier Hallot wrote:
>> painless migration was my hope when I raised the issue, but saddly it
>> didn't show up in time. Such Changes In Capital Letters And Semicolons
>> Are Suitebale in EN But Does Not Affect Other Languages Where This Rule
>> Does Not Apply.
> It's impossible to automatically decide which of those changes are
> purely cosmetic and which not.

I'm not sure what you mean here. It can't be hard to distinguish such
lines where only straight apostrophes, straight quotes or
three-dots-as-an-ellipsis are being replaced with their fancier
equivalents. And with these changes filtered out, I don't think it would
be impossible to propagate them to localized files by changing msgid's
in them to reflect these cosmetic updates.

> And there likely won't be anyone who
> manually goes through all the changes and manually creates mapping
> from old to new so that old translations can be pulled in. And with
> changes like changing casing and adding colons it is more likely that
> the translation will also want to apply the change, so just staying
> silent and not flagging the string as changed is not really an option
> here.

I believe we could have cheated even with colons by adding them to the
translations automatically (probably on an opt-out or opt-in basis).  As
for case changes, I guess it depends on their nature: if en-US would
decide to make a massive change between say Title Case and Sentence
case, I guess most locales would find it very much acceptable to just
keep what they already have. On the other hand, if the change was to or
from lowecase, the expectations might differ.


>> Nevertheless, it may be time to create a T/LSC Translation/Linguistic
>> Steering Commitee to address the issues raised here. LiBO does not have
>> a linguistic revision of terms used in the UI.
> Not progressing just for the sake of not causing work for anybody is
> the wrong approach.
> But that doesn't mean the workflow as a whole cannot be improved.

Fully agreed.

> It would for example also be possible to have "master" project in
> pootle (instead of just for the release-branches), so that the amount
> of changes are incremental, and not all one or two months before a new
> major release.
> (but that of course means applying a translation to multiple projects,
> so not sure whether that really reduces the work and not causing more
> work for translators...)

For at least a few years, I performed most of my Mozilla localization
work on their master branch. When branches were cut and repositories
migrated, I would migrate my repos too. I can imagine a scenario where
at least some teams would want to work on LibO master as well. There
even is potential that such process could help avoid some problems by
signaling them early enough so that they can be fixed or undone.

Obviously though, this should not be required from all teams. And if we
have at least two simultaneously active release branches, this might not
be the best approach.

Regards,
Rimas



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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] n’t → n't

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi,

2014.11.30 19:13, Olivier Hallot wrote:
> Lets invent a new language in the world named Liboish - LibreOffice
> language - that in fact is often confused with en_US, but it is not the
> same.
>
> I suggest to create a new entry in Pootle, named en-US so that we get a
> translation from Liboish to English. Other languages translates directly
> from Liboish and we are all happy not to redo our work.
>
> (Apologizes for the inapropriate sense of humour, but I saw this extra
> work comming months ago. 99% of my 4.4 UI was rework)

I can't understand whether or not you're joking, but others are already
voicing their support to this idea, so I'll voice my 'unsupport' as well.

I don't really think this would be viable solution in the long run.
Somebody would have to maintain that "translation" for years just
because in 2014 localizers made a fuss out of a one-time problem that
could (and should) have been automated not to bother them in the first
place. Furthermore, in my opinion, there would be constant risk of
either doing too much or not doing enough in this front.

Let's not forget that massive changes like these don't happen every
month. Yes, we had migration to different accesskey characters, and
manually updating all locales to reflect that must have been painful to
localizers. Yes, this current situation is somewhat similar because
again no real translation would is involved in this massive change. But:
I still believe this migration can be automated and made painless (at
least for the most part), so why not aim for making that automation a
prerequisite of the change that is threatening our well-being? LibO
developers don't live in another planet, and they can be reasoned and
negotiated with, right?

Rimas



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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] n’t → n't

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi,

2014.11.30 16:23, Christian Lohmaier wrote:
>>> I agree this will be annoying, because at the very least, the localizers
>>> will have to re-approve a lot of their old translations when these
>>> changes land. At least in the case of "don't" though, maybe this change
>>> could be automated, if we ask Andras or Christian nicely? :)
> Well, the only thing that can be done is to apply the old strings
> despite the typographic changes, i.e. do a run that maps all
> typographic quotes back to simple variants and then try to find an old
> translation for that string and apply it.
> In other words: Change the English string to typographic quotes, and
> take the translations from the non-typographic variant.
>
> So translators wouldn't need to retranslate, but also wouldn't see
> what strings did change.

If this can be done, I'm sure it would make most localizers happier.
Especially in cases like "don't", where the translation most likely
doesn't even contain the glyph that has changed. As for quotes, these
most likely exist in localized content as well, but I'd say it has been
localizer's responsibility to use typographically correct ones from the
very beginning. And for those of us don't care about "typographical
nonsense", forcing them to resubmit hundreds of strings will hardly
change that stance.

Changes to ellipsis characters should probably be applied automatically
as well, except for a few locales (like Japanese), for which Unicode
ellipsis is displayed as three vertically aligned dots, which at least a
couple years back seems to have been very unexpected in application UIs.

Regards,
Rimas


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] n’t → n't

[Rimas Kudelis]

2014.11.30 07:38, Yury Tarasievich rašė:
> On 11/30/2014 05:13 AM, Adolfo Jayme Barrientos wrote:
> ...
>> In case you guys didn’t know, Apple [1], Microsoft [2] and GNOME [3]
>> are all recommending the use of typographical apostrophes and
>> quotation marks, among other characters that have been historically
> ...
>
> Said recommendations, while formaly correct, are subverted by the fact
> that there are no commonly accessible methods to keyboard-input all
> those "fancy" glyphs.
>
> In OpenOffice (and in Word?) you may have add-ons, auto-correcting
> some of those cases. Otherwise than that you'd have to install
> smarty-pants (often, pain-in-the-..., too) keyboard input correctors
> or resort to mouse-clicking in the glyph tables.

Just a reminder: in Pootle, it's possible to specify harder-to-input
characters for each language, which are then made available below the
text input field when localizing. While it's less convenient than
inputting them with the keyboard, it's still better than having a
separate character map application launched just to copy these few
characters. Furthermore, I think Pootle even shows such Unicode
characters in the source string as placeables, making them clickable.

And if you use Windows and want to make inputting these characters even
more convenient, you can always customize your keyboard layout adding
missing typographical  symbols to the AltGr (or any other) layer. Here's
a free tool to do that:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/goglobal/bb964665.aspx.

>> I am actually planning to update the rest of strings in LibreOffice to
>> use the correct characters, but I guessed I had already annoyed the
>> other translators too much for this version, so that would be in 4.5.
>
> So you will still annoy the translators, only more.
>
> Program UI isn't a typography showcase. Why not leave the pragmatic
> simplification which serves it purpose? Does it break anything? 

I agree this will be annoying, because at the very least, the localizers
will have to re-approve a lot of their old translations when these
changes land. At least in the case of "don't" though, maybe this change
could be automated, if we ask Andras or Christian nicely? :)

Regards,
Rimas


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] LibreOffice 4.4. translation workload

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi,

2014.11.05 19:35, Sophie wrote:
> So for information, I've discussed on IRC with Cloph who told me:
> -
> there is the terminology project or the per-directory terminology files,
> but the translation memory is from amagama
> 
> So it's not sure we will be able to remove it as Amagama server is a
> shared instance over projects.
> I wrote to Dwayne today to ask him if the 2.6.0 release is ready and
> when it could be deployed to our project. From what I know this version
> include a local TM. I also asked him how to update Amagama with our LO
> TM (that would help those using Virtaal too).

I haven't been closely following development of Pootle (or anything
actually) lately, but *if* Pootle 2.6 is not ready yet, or *if* it will
not include the TM feature, I think the idea to host our own instance of
AmaGama is really worth considering. Having it our own, we could update
or discard the strings in it as needed, perhaps even on a per-locale
basis. That would hopefully make locale maintenance easier.

Rimas


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] LibreOffice 4.4. translation workload

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi,

shame on me! I should have read the whole thread before proposing what
Tom already has. Just ignore this subthread. :)

Rimas

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] LibreOffice 4.4. translation workload

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi,

2014.11.04 17:23, Stanislav Horáček wrote:
> And one note to translations in general: it would be very helpful to
> update Amagama translation memory to include LO 4.3 - otherwise we
> could reintroduce bad translations from elder series (I admit that
> using TM in Pootle is always risky since sources of Amagama
> suggestions are not shown).

I wonder what installation of AmaGama you are talking about. Is there
still a public instance of it which collects all the open-source
localizations into one TM? I tried to find it a few days ago, but couldn't.

And while this topic is on plate, does anyone think it would be a good
idea to run our own instance of AmaGama? I assume having a TM containing
only our own strings could help a lot when updating localizations
between releases, especially in cases like migration to Glade, where the
remain stay 99% the same, and only accesskeys and/or string id's change.
My vision is we could feed it with our strings when branching new
releases, and integrate it with Pootle to offer suggestions. I assume we
could also selectively drop old translations before importing new ones,
on a per-request basis.


Rimas



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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Language Abkhazian

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi,
Let me chime in here as well. First of all, Pootle has the ability to use a 
configured TM. Couple options available out of the box are Google Translate 
(which is an MT, not a TM service) and Aperture (which, if I remember 
correctly, holds a collection of translated strings from a large amount of open 
source software, and can suggest these translations to you). In addition to 
this, there's apparently a lookup feature as well, with an example config for 
Wikipedia. I'm not sure why we aren't using any of these at the moment, but I 
guess we could turn them on, if needed.

However, none of these features are even close to being a replacement for a 
real human localizer being at the moment. They are mere helpers, and nothing 
more. Surely, the level of accuracy varies by language, but considering other 
replies, I guess even translations into English are bad enough. As a user, I 
sometimes stumble upon software, which is "localized" into Lithuanian using 
Google Translate (or something very similar). Tell you what: on these cases I 
feel insulted by the idiocy of that app's "localizer", because that person 
obviously didn't know at all what they were doing and how shitty the outcome of 
their "effort" is. I can't tell for sure that that outcome isn't helpful, but I 
really doubt that it is. So, to summarize my point, we should never attempt to 
seed any locale with machine translations. These are a good helper mechanism, 
but a bad base to start building up on.

By the way, writing this also reminded me of Google's Code-In programme and 
what we should learn from it. GCI is similar to Google Summer Of Code, but 
targets younger students to whom the participating projects assign smaller than 
GSOC tasks. Among them, localization tasks were also acceptable. So, some 
students quickly found a way to easily cash out the rewards offered for 
completing these tasks, by using MT services. What's worth learning from this 
is that there should always be a mentor within a project who understands the 
target language well enough to at least tell whether it looks like a result of 
MT. Otherwise it's just a waste of rewards and its reputation.

Regards, 
Rimas

On 2014 m. lapkritis 3 d. 00:03:21 EET, Tom Davies  wrote:
>Hi :)
>
>Going off-topic (now that the original question has been solved),
>hopefully
>just briefly ...
>
>Of course Firefox (and many others) allows add-ons such as
>machine-translators.  They are getting much better but are still
>hilariously bad quite often.  Often they give just enough of a hint
>that i
>think i understand what someone is saying although i always wonder if
>they
>have sent me off in a wrong direction.
>
>My MT (i think "Quick translate"), gave me;
>"Hello!
>I ask you to add the Abkhaz language for translation
>Libre Office ver. 4.3.3.2
>"
>Which made a lot of sense and it's good to have a respectable human
>confirm
>that because it gives me a little more confidence in the MT.
>
>
>I've often wondered if they might be "good enough" to get rough
>translations done well enough for humans to proof-read and polish? 
>Perhaps
>just "good enough" to use alongside the human translators own skill and
>knowledge, perhaps to get some inspiration?  Perhaps better for people
>who
>are only just starting to translate things?
>
>I've also wondered if it's easier to have paired teams.  So in this
>case
>someone who is a native Russian-speaker but understands Abkhazian "well
>enough" to do first drafts and then a native Abkhazian-speaker to do
>proof-reading, ideally one who understands Russian (or English or
>something) just well enough to be able to look back at a source
>document to
>double-check that things haven't gone too far off-track.
>
>Does either of those ideas have any validity?  Are they something that
>noobs or laymen often seem to think but turns out to be more work
>and/or
>less accurate than whatever different ways your teams use?
>
>Err, i am a typical English person and only understand 1 language at
>all
>and not even that great at that 1 so please forgive my noobishness in
>this
>post.
>Regards from
>Tom :)
>
>
>
>
>On 2 November 2014 19:17, Sophie Gautier 
>wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> Le 2 nov. 2014 20:10, "Andras Timar"  a écrit :
>> >
>> > On Sun, Nov 2, 2014 at 7:52 PM, Sophie 
>wrote:
>> > > Hi and welcome,
>> > > Le 02/11/2014 17:30, Андрей Абухба a écrit :
>> > >>  Здравствуйте!
>> > >>
>> > >> Прошу Вас добавить абхазский язык для перевода
>> > >> Libre Office ver. 4.3.3.2
>> > >
>> > > Could you write in English? it will be much more easier for us to
>help
>> > > you :)
>> > > Thanks
>> > > Sophie
>> > >
>> >
>> > I think Andrey wanted us to add Abkhazian language to Pootle. I've
>> > just done that.(Probably he cannot write in English, and will
>> > translate LibreOffice from Russian to Abkhazian, but I don't know
>for
>> > sure.) Anyway, welcome Andrey, and you can start translating
>> > LibreOffice 4.3 UI in Pootle.
>>
>> Ha great! Thanks Andras. Andrey let us know whic

Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Language Abkhazian

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi,

2014.11.02 21:10, Andras Timar wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 2, 2014 at 7:52 PM, Sophie  wrote:
>> Le 02/11/2014 17:30, Андрей Абухба a écrit :
>>>  Здравствуйте!
>>>
>>> Прошу Вас добавить абхазский язык для перевода
>>> Libre Office ver. 4.3.3.2
>> Could you write in English? it will be much more easier for us to help
>> you :)
> I think Andrey wanted us to add Abkhazian language to Pootle. I've
> just done that.(Probably he cannot write in English, and will
> translate LibreOffice from Russian to Abkhazian, but I don't know for
> sure.) Anyway, welcome Andrey, and you can start translating
> LibreOffice 4.3 UI in Pootle.

Andras, you're definitely right that he asked us to do that. I know
Russian, I can reply Andrey offlist.

Rimas

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Guarani Language

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi Giovanni,

2014.10.21 07:55, Giovanni Caligaris wrote:
> Thanks for answering. I have been talking to Adolfo earlier today and
> he mention most of the stuff you said. The last email I sent him said
> that I have already made an account with Pootle and my username is
> *libreoffice. *I have also subscribed to the
> l10n+subscr...@global.libreoffice.org
> . At first I got an
> email asking if it was a real person so I confirmed, but after that I
> did not get a confirmation from them (if that matters?).

if you get two copies of this e-mail (one of them with the list footer),
that means you have been subscribed successfully. Otherwise probably
not. Once you are subscribed, I suggest to reply to the e-mails coming
from this list back to the list, so that everyone gets a copy of your
reply and nobody receives it twice.

> I personally don't speak Guarani but I know the importance of the
> language in the country. I have a friend who is highly educated in the
> language (even though there isn’t much of a professional grammar for
> it), he does speak the language perfect. I told him I would like to
> start with him and then try to get some government support. I know
> once we start this there will be plenty of other contributors.
>
> The Guarani alphabet s the same as the Spanish, it uses the Ñ and the
> same accent marks*.
>
> *
> I want to let you know that I am very excited to do this. I didn't
> start earlier because I was living in Canada/USA for the past 15 years
> and I just moved back to Paraguay last Thursday (I'm ready to go).

Wow, that's quite a rush!

> Let me know if you see my username and my email on the mail list.

I do see your username in Pootle. But it is libreguarani, not
libreoffice. :) I have granted you all the necessary permissions for
Guarani: https://translations.documentfoundation.org/gn/.

I have also enabled two projects for your language: LibreOffice UI and
Terminology. While it might be tempting to start with the former, I
strongly advice you to work on Terminology first (I'm even inclined to
remove LibO UI for now). Terminology is a special type of project
because it does not contain any source files. You are free to upload any
dictionaries that you have to it (after converting them to a suitable
format (.po) first). If you don't have a dictionary yet, no worries –
there are folks on this list and elsewhere who will gladly assist you
with that, you just have to ask.

Happy localizing! :)

Rimas


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Plural rules

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi Miho,

2014.10.21 08:17, Mihovil Stanic wrote:
> I see I'm not only one awake this early. :)

Well good morning! :)

> I noticed this sentence in you reply. Didn't know we could adjust this.
>
> Could you adjust it for croatian language?
> You can find rules here, number #7.
> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Localization/Localization_and_Plurals#Plural_rule_.237_.283_forms.29
>

It's both yes and now actually. It's a yes, because we can adjust plural
forms in Pootle settings, but it's a no because that change doesn't
affect LibreOffice, at least to the best of my knowledge. As you
probably know, LibO does not yet use gettext, and its internal L10n
technology has no support for multiple plural forms (again, to the best
of my knowledge). The reason why I ask newcomers to provide this info is
because we may have other projects in Pootle which could make use of it
and because one day LibO might actually get support for this.

Our current plural string for Croatian is: (n%10==1 && n%100!=11 ? 0 :
n%10>=2 && n%10<=4 && (n%100<10 || n%100>=20) ? 1 : 2) . From glancing
at Mozilla's description and this string, it seems we're already in sync
in that regard, aren't we?

Rimas


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Guarani Language

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hello Giovanni!

2014.10.20 20:22, Giovanni Caligaris wrote:
> My name is Giovanni and I'm Paraguayan citizen. I was wondering if someone
> already started translating LO to Guarani. If not I would like to start it.
>
> Guarani is Paraguay's second official language. It is spoken by 90% of
> Paraguayans. Some areas of the country only speak Guarani (45%). It's the
> only country in the Americas that speaks a native language. Even thou the
> native indian population in the country is a bit less than 100,000.
>
> Sadly Guarani is seen as a street language, it does not reach professional
> status like Spanish or English.
>
> I believe if LibreOffice has a Guarani version it will make a big impact in
> the country, specially in rural areas. Now days it's a requirement to know
> how to use Office.
>
> Please let me know if there's anything I can do.

Welcome to LibreOffice, and yes, there is absolutely always something
you can do!

Let's start with the basics. In LibreOffice, most teams use our instance
of Pootle for localization. It is accessible at
https://translations.documentfoundation.org/. In order to work in
Pootle, you have to create yourself an account there and post your
username to this list, so that Pootle administrators can give you the
permissions necessary to work on your language.

Above the list of languages, on Pootle homepage you'll see a really
short localization intro. It's that short for two reasons: 1) the number
of characters we could use there used to be very limited and 2) it
contains links to our Wiki, and the Wiki has all the info you might need
about localizing LibreOffice. Either way, for starters, you might just
want to create yourself an account and post your username here.

One important aspect of localizing LibreOffice is its size. LibreOffice
is huge. There are more than 3 strings to translate, so it is an
enormous amount of work. Which is why you should probably start looking
for collaborators interested in helping you out with this effort right
away. Alternatively (or in addition), you might look into means of
getting some financial backing for your effort, for example, by applying
for a government/private grant or seeking support from the crowd (this
is not a requirement of any sort, just a mere suggestion).

Hmm, what else... There is some more bootstrapping work involved, but
that can wait. For now, let me know if you need any special characters
you would like to be accessible for easy entry in Pootle (for example,
ones not commonly found in keyboard layouts in your region; by looking
at Wikipedia, I suspect at least G̃/g̃ might be the case). Also, for now,
Pootle will assume there are two plural forms in your language (1 apple,
2 or more apples), let me know whether or not this assumption is correct.

Should you have any further questions, you're always welcome to post to
the l10n list (and subscribing to it is highly recommended). We have
some awesomely helpful and friendly people here who are eager to guide
localizers through any possible difficulties, so don't be shy! ;)

Best regards,
Rimas


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Number of locale users?

[Rimas Kudelis]

2014.10.12 22:42, Adolfo Jayme Barrientos wrote:
> May I ask why you want to violate people’s privacy just to get a number?

May I ask you where in your opinion the line lies between people's
privacy and plain statistics?

Rimas

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Would Like to Contribute to Manipuri Translation

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi Chandrakant,

2014.09.26 12:34, chandrakant dhutadmal wrote:
> Though i have given rights to Moumita Choudhary (user name moumita) for 
> Manipuri language, she is not able to access Manipuri page. The error says, 
> there are no sufficient rights to access that page.

You didn't give Moumita the "Overview translation project" right, I
think that is the reason. I just gave it, she should be able to work now.

> In case of Sanskrit language, i am unable to give rights to other members for 
> contributing. This happened yesterday, when i gave rights to Babita Shinde ( 
> babitashinde123).
>
> What could have gone wrong ?

You accidentally took your own permissions away, I suppose? Right now,
the access control list for Sanskrit is simply empty. I've added you
back, with the same permissions that you have on Manipuri. You will have
to try to grant the rights you wanted to Babita again. And make sure you
don't forget the "Overview translation project" permission this time. ;)

Regards,
Rimas




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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Recruiting translators/editors

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi,

2014.09.01 09:42, Mihovil Stanic wrote:
> Pootle is very non-tech user frendly and you shouldn't have problems
> translating with it.
>
> You should try to translate for Mozilla via HG where workflow is
> something like this:
> - learn using HG via command line or via Tortoise HG on windows
> - get keys from mozilla
> - login with key and password
> - download/merge whole repository every time you want to translate
> - check "Compare locales" tool and MANUALY copy string differences
> from EN_US to your locale
> - translate
> - commit changes
> - merge changes to HG repository
>
> With Pootle, you only log in and translate. :)

not that it's very relevant here, but just to let you know, you can
actually translate Firefox and Thunderbird in Pootle as well. I migrated
most of my Mozilla work to Pootle just a few weeks ago. There were some
migration-related bumps, but I'm gonna see how it goes from here.

Rimas


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Please remove Website project from HR locale Pootle.

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi Mihovil,

2014.09.01 11:57, Mihovil Stanic wrote:
> Can Pootle admins please remove "Website" project from Croatian HR
> locale on Pootle?
> We started translating that last year in hopes it will be available on
> LibreOffice main download page, but since we got confirmation that
> will never happen, we aren't interested in maintaining our locale
> webpage.
>
> If at any point you decide to translate main page, we will do that.
> I'm hoping for something like this:
> https://www.mozilla.org/hr/firefox/new/
> https://www.mozilla.org/hr/thunderbird/
> etc...

no problem to remove the project, but I still fail to realize why you
don't want to launch a Croatian landing page at hr.libreoffice.org. You
could put any content there, including translated content from the main
website. You could have as little as one page, or as many pages as you
are willing to manage on your website, it's all up to you and/oryour
team to decide. I understand that it's a different process than the one
employed by Mozilla, but it's very hard for me to see our process as
more limiting. On the contrary, I'd say you have much more freedom here
in this regard. And if you are afraid of the maintenance overhead, I can
almost certainly say that in case of one or two pages (e.g. home and
download pages), there would be no overhead whatsoever. At least I'm
pretty sure that you wouldn't have to update the pages on your website
for each new release, if that is what bothers you.

Regards,
Rimas

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Can LibO be Customised to be Downloaded in a Native Language?

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi,

On 2014.08.04 23:29, Michael Bauer wrote:
> Wow. So if you're lucky enough to be among the 107 locale for which
> Win 8 (for those who have Win 8 of course, Win XP still has a 25%
> market share) has a langpack or the 55 or so on Ubuntu (of course that
> does not automatically translate into LO actually being offered in all
> those languages as I recently had to discover with Scottish Gaelic) -
> or the disgraceful number of locales on OSX, you're covered. Even if I
> just add them up, that amounts to 2.7% of the world's languages being
> covered by this approach. Anyone else has to rely on the end user
> *guessing* that they have to run a custom install.
>
> I like LO but I promote it through gritted teeth because the install
> and update process continues to be a disgrace.
>
> Elanjelian, the workaround we're currently using is not to use the
> default download page but a customised page
> (http://gd.libreoffice.org/faigh-greim-air/) where we tell users
> BEFORE they reach the download button that they have to follow this
> unintuitive path through Custom Installation. It would probably work
> for your language too.

perhaps a better option would be to present the user with a "please
select your installation language" dialog as the first step of setup,
and adjust the list of automatically selected locales based on that
choice. Not sure if it is possible with the msi-based installer though.

Rimas


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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Kerala Legislative Assembly has moved to Free Software and Libreoffice

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi Anivar,

On 2014.07.21 19:15, Anivar Aravind wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 8:37 PM, Urmas  wrote:
>> Another story of embezzling of funds veiled as 'free software migration.'
>> But officially it was enthusiasts working 12/24 for food.
> WTF?
>
> We l10n people in india usually calls it as "Swathantra Software" (means
> Libre/freedom Software) as reported in local language press. If you have
> ambiguity with the word "free ". That is a problem in your understanding .
> Please stop judging local contexts with mistaken understandings.
>
> And In this part of the Glob we have all Govt and state aided Schools using
> FOSS, Govt policies have specific mention about FOSS . Experiences like
> this were state funds for an implementation partner to initiate migration .

It's not the first time Urmas is bashing random people on OSS mailing
lists (incl. LibO), and it's probably not the last time either.  I
suggest to just ignore his crappy remarks.

Question to board members: I wonder, for how long will such behavior be
tolerated?

Rimas

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Would Like to Contribute to Manipuri Translation

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hello Moumita,

On 2014.06.26 13:30, Moumita Chowdhury wrote:
> I am Moumita Chowdhury. I am a linguist/translator by profession and am
> currently working with Centre for Development of Advanced Computing. I am
> involved in freelance translation and localization related projects and
> would like to contribute to Manipuri translation on your forum.

if you are still interested, please register with 
https://translations.documentfoundation.org (this page also has a short intro 
on how to get started) and reply with your username. I would also advise you to 
subscribe to the L10n mailing list (and direct your reply to it). There's also 
a more detailed intro here: 
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Translating_LibreOffice .

Regards,
Rimas


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] urdu Libre office

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hello Atiur,

if you are still interested, please register with
https://translations.documentfoundation.org (this page also has a short
intro on how to get started) and reply with your username. I would also
advise you to subscribe to the L10n mailing list (and direct your reply
to it). There's also a more detailed intro here:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Translating_LibreOffice .

Regards,
Rimas


On 2014.06.26 13:34, Atiur Rahman Khan wrote:
> Hi,
> Atiur Rahman Khan from C-DAC PUNE , India here. I would like to subscribe to 
> translation of Urdu Libre Office.
>  
>  regards
> Atiur Rahman Khan ati...@cdac.in
> Senior Technical Officer
> Natural Language Processing Team, GIST R&D Lab
> Centre for Development of Advanced Computing(C-DAC)
>
> Ministry of Communications and Information Technology
> (Government of India)
> NSG IT Park, Aundh
> Survey No. 127/2B/2A
> Pune- 411 007, Maharashtra, India.
>  
> Office :  (020) 2550 479


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Requesting Access for Localization Contribution

[Rimas Kudelis]

On 2014.07.02 07:51, Aravind Gopalakrishnan wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have created following user name on pootle server
>
> username:- aravindg
>
> Kindly give me an access for localization contribution of Libre office for
> Tamil language.

Hello Aravind,

it seems you already have the Overview, Suggest and Download
permissions. I don't know if it was granted after your e-mail, or if you
already had them*, but since our Tamil locale seems to be actively
maintained, I'll leave it up to you and your team to agree on what other
permissions you should have (if any).

* Note: whenever a request sent to this group is being processed by
somebody, it would be nice to get a reply to the group about it, so that
the request doesn't look missed and forgotten.

Regards,
Rimas


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Requesting access for contribution in libre office localization

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hello all,

assuming that our Kashmiri locale is unmaintained (list of contributors in 
https://translations.documentfoundation.org/ks/ is empty), I just granted Neha 
all the permissions necessary for work (in fact, I granted all the permissions 
that the current locale maintainer had and the permission to overwrite existing 
translations on import).

Refer to the Sanskrit thread for more info and my reasoning.

Regards,
Rimas




On 2014.07.01 14:52, Neha kulkarni wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have created an account on pootle server, username is - neha.
>
> Kindly provide me rights to contribute in localization of libre office for
> Kashmiri-DV language.
>
>
> Regards,
> Neha Aphale
>


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Requesting Access for Localization Contribution

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hello all,

assuming that our Sanskrit locale is unmaintained (just look at the list of 
contributors in https://translations.documentfoundation.org/sa_IN/), I just 
granted Babita all the permissions necessary for work (in fact, I granted all 
the permissions that the current locale maintainer had and the permission to 
overwrite existing translations on import).

In fact, a lot of Indic languages (incl. Sanskrit, Kashmiri and Dogri) had the 
same maintainer until now, who appears to only actually maintain Santali (at 
least that's the only language where he is the last contributor: 
https://translations.documentfoundation.org/sat/). I don't think it will hurt 
even if we don't wait for his input when giving permissions on unmaintained 
languages.

By the way, does anyone know why we are using 'sa_IN' and not just 'sa' as a 
locale code for Sanskrit?

Regards,
Rimas




On 2014.07.01 14:53, babita shinde wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I have created following user name on pootle server
>
> username:- babitashinde123
>
> Kindly give me an access for localization contribution of Libre office for
> Sanskrit language.
>
>
> Regards,
> Babita Shinde
>


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: New Projects at Pootle Server for Tamil

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi Elanjelian,

On 2014.07.12 02:50, Elanjelian Venugopal wrote:
> I am resending this request.

It's hard to explain why none of us Pootle admins reacted to the
requests that have queued up until now. Please accept apologies on
behalf of us all.

> Please activate the following three projects for Tamil:
>
> 1) Impress Remote (Android)
> 
> 2) Impress Remote (iOS)
> 
> 3) Terminology
> 

Done.

> And, we would appreciate if it is possible to deactivate the following two
> inactivate projects:
>
> 1) LibreOffice 4.2 – Help
> 
> 2) LibreOffice 4.2 – UI
> 

I guess the 4.1 project should be completely removed soon. Our download
page states that the last scheduled release from that tree happened in
April. I'm not even sure why 4.1, and not 4.2 is still marketed as
"stable" (the latter is called "fresh"). Anyway, I'm not removing these
projects from your language just yet, as I'm not sure whether or not
that would break anything. You should probably resend this part of your
request to this list once again later.

Warm regards,
Rimas

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Reseting https://translations.documentfoundation.org password doesn't work, please help me to login

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi all!

So here's a follow-up on the issue: last week-end I looked at our Pootle 
server, and it indeed had problems delivering e-mails. I have adjusted 
server configuration and fixed the problem, so now Pootle can send 
e-mails again.


Should anyone here ever face issues like this again, please don't 
hesitate to escalate them by posting to this group and/or the 
infrastructure group. Thanks!


Regards,
Rimas

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Spellcheck lost

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi Kolbjoern,

2014.05.01 00:23, Kolbjørn Stuestøl rašė:

Some days ago Pootle changed my spell checking. I do not know exact date.
Opera browser: Pootle is checking my spelling against English.
Firefox browser: no checking at all.

My personal settings as a user are not changed.
Something I have to do to getting the spell check back to my native 
language (Norwegian nynorsk)?

(Tried on Windows 7 and 8.1).


You should check out the context menu of Pootle's input box – look for a 
menu item that enables spellchecking there, and when it's enabled, look 
for a submenu to choose your language.


This is standard Firefox functionality, Pootle cannot affect it by any 
means.


Rimas


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Reseting https://translations.documentfoundation.org password doesn't work, please help me to login

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi all,

not exactly a problem fix, but I've just changed Mantas' password and 
mailed it to him.


P.S. Tom, thanks for helping everyone here! :)

Rimas

2014.04.24 13:07, Mantas Kriaučiūnas rašė:

Hi LibreOffice l10n team,

I can't login into https://translations.documentfoundation.org :(

It seems I forgot the password, but when I enter my email man...@akl.lt at

https://translations.documentfoundation.org/accounts/password/reset/

I get information in lithuanian language, that soon I should get an email with
info how to change a password:
https://translations.documentfoundation.org/accounts/password/reset/done

Slaptažodžio atkūrimas
Jūsų pateiktu elektroninio pašto adresu išsiųsti nurodymai, kaip pakeisti 
slaptažodį.
Turėtumėte juos gauti netrukus.

But I don't get any email from documentfoundation pootle server :(

I tried 3 times yesterday and 2 times today :(

Please help me - LibreOffice 4.2 missing lots of Lithuanian translations, for
exampe Format-Character, Format-Rotate and Format-Image aren't translated :(




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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Language names should be in the target language chars

[Rimas Kudelis]

2014.04.16 12:10, Maniacco, Diego rašė:

A suggestion to the first point of Eike discussion: what if a centralized page 
like http://zh-cn.libreoffice.org/international-sites/  would expose a square 
matrix of names (actually 49 x (1+49):
- each row will expose the link to the localized-site + the name of all 
languages written in the localized language?

The work will need to be updated each time that a new localized-siet will be 
added; not very often.


The page would look very crowded. And more importantly, what's the point?

Rimas

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Language names should be in the target language chars

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi Eike,

let me disagree with you. The points you mentioned are valid, but to me 
they look more like a bunch of selected edge cases than common real-life 
scenarios.


2014.04.14 15:03, Eike Rathke wrote:

On Thursday, 2014-04-10 18:26:44 +0800, 锁琨珑 wrote:


So far, the language names shown in "Tools - Options - Language
Settings" are in the localed language name strings.

I believe those language names should be changed to the target names
chars for all UIs, like the language listed here:
http://zh-cn.libreoffice.org/international-sites/
(see the second column)

While having language names in their native language is fine for
interfaces where a user only wants to pick his/her own language, it is
not desirable for interfaces where several languages can be chosen for
different purposes that are not native to the user. Let me explain some
disadvantages:

* a document containing language attribution the user doesn't know the
   native name of, s/he will see a meaningless entry in the language list


If the user doesn't know the language in question, knowing the name of 
that particular language in their own language will hardly help. In 
other words, I doubt that actually knowing that the language is 
Whateverian (something you've never heard of) will help you understand 
the doc any better than knowing that the language is Gibberishian (the 
name you can't even read).



* seeing the language list, a user will not know what languages are
   offered except those s/he can somehow deduce


The user doesn't really care about "what languages are offered". What 
they care about is whether or not the language they need *at the moment* 
is offered. Assuming that they will know the native name of that 
language, it will often be much easier for them to find that name than 
guess it. Would you know or guess that German in Lithuanian is Vokiečių? 
I doubt that.



* wanting to prepare a document with different locale settings (e.g.
   using different currencies or formatting) the user would have to know
   the native names


I doubt one could prepare a document in any language they don't know to 
such extent. Setting metadata would be my least concern in such case...



* a developer adding a language to the language listbox would have to
   know that name in the native language; yes, CLDR in the mean time
   provides native names of most frequently used languages, but not for
   the not so frequently used that now are occasionally requested; s/he'd
   have to take the word of the one requesting that language


How's that a problem? If somebody makes a request, you can always ask 
the requester what the native language name is.



* for developers this gets even more cumbersome for languages that can
   be written in different scripts, or scripts the developer doesn't know
   at all; would you know how to correctly write Arabic and enter it on
   your native keyboard? Or Mongolian in the Mongolian script? You'd have
   to rely on copy&paste and pray that your editor handles all Unicode
   characters, RTL writing direction and so forth.


I agree that this might be a bit inconvenient for developers, but I'm 
pretty sure there must be an acceptable solution to that inconvenience. 
For example, non-latin language names could probably be stored in 
escaped fashion where appropriate (in the source code). I really don't 
think "X is inconvenient for developers" is a good excuse to keep 
something at a state less convenient for the end-user.



I am thinking about this because of the following reason:

   * It's a waste of time for localizers to translate every foreign
 language names to their own locale. Even translated, it may not be
 correct.

That's about 350 language names we currently have, of an overall of some
hundred thousand words to translate (including help), doesn't really
look significant to me. Plus, once translated the names almost never
change.


It's still useless and – most importantly – inconvenient to most users 
(=those who know the native name of language they want to pick).



   * In case the users are trying to switch between languages, there may
 be confusion (for example, if I want to test something in Franch UI,
 and after that I want to change back to Chinese UI it's really
 difficult to find the right one in the list box.

There's an easy trick for that: assign the language to a portion of text
and reload the document in the other UI language.


I'm pretty sure that developers can find easy tricks to solve their 
inconveniences as well. E.g. copy-paste.



And there is a corrensponding bug report here:
Bug 59901 - UI: Name of each language in target language
https://www.libreoffice.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=59901

I'll add the same comment there.


I hope your stance is not too strict about this.

Regards,
Rimas

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] International Website Translation: How to push po to website

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hello Kevin,

2014.03.22 03:04, Kevin Suo wrote:
> HI Rimas, Sorry for the late reply, but I was very busy these days.
>
> 于 2014年03月20日 03:58, Rimas Kudelis 写道:
>> Hi Kevin,
>> your updates, along with all others, have now been pushed to the git
>> repository. That doesn't mean they will appear in our website right
>> away, but they're much closer to that now.
> Someone in our zh_cn website team has updated the zh_cn.php lang file
> and made a pull request here on Mar 18:
> https://github.com/tdf/cms-code/pull/11
> We hope that is the right place to make a request. He did it by editing
> the zh_cn.php file manually based on the po file in pootle, not using a
> convert script. Until now seems the request has not yet been accepted,
> no translation updates are appearing on the website.

Yes, it is the right place to make a pull request. The reason it hasn't
been accepted is because (most likely) it has been obsoleted by my pull
request which has been accepted three days ago. You can find the diff
for your file here:
https://github.com/tdf/cms-code/pull/12/files#diff-24. Above the diff,
there is a link to view the file at its current status. If you still
want something changed, you should most probably rebase your diff on the
current version of the file.


> I am confused that why it is so difficult for a change in the website
> translation to take effect. Maybe it's better to directly edit the php
> array on github, not using a po file on pootle?

It's not your fault. And yes, editing the array directly on github is
faster (or at least it was faster until now), but working with Git and
PHP arrays is not something that every localizer should figure out, so
we have Pootle. If you want to maintain your locale file directly on
Github, that's fine, but in that case, I would advise to have your
language disabled for the website project in Pootle, in order to avoid
confusion and possible translation conflicts.

> Thank you very much for your help!

You are welcome!
Rimas


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[libreoffice-l10n] Website project updated. NOTE!

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi all,

I updated the website project from templates today. However, it seems I 
did something slightly wrong and not all untranslated strings are now 
counted as such. This I want to draw your attention at the filter bar 
you see at the bottom of the page when translating. After working 
through the untranslated strings, please check if there aren't any 
strings erroneously marked as translated by choosing Line filter: 
"Checks", and check type: "Unchanged" in the filter line at the bottom. 
Also note that such filter doesn't seem to always work (not sure if it's 
a Pootle bug or what)...


Rimas

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] International Website Translation: How to push po to website

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi Sophie,


2014.03.19 17:38, Sophie wrote:

Hi Rimas,
Le 17/03/2014 22:59, Rimas Kudelis a écrit :

website is a special type of project. For your translation to appear on
the website, someone has to check it out, convert to a
SilverStripe-specific PHP array format, and commit it to a certain
github repo (or clone that repo and make a pull request). That someone
is usually me, but it's not something I enjoy, so I only do that very
rarely. :)

So to answer your question, you can either poke me to make the missing
steps, or you can do that yourself. I would prefer the latter, but if
that is too troublesome for you, I can help.

Is it documented somewhere so we can try to do it without bothering you
or if one day you're not available? Does the infra team have some notes
about the process?


No, this is not documented anywhere, and each time I do that, I rebuild 
my own knowledge about how I did it the last time. :)


However, it seems that the last time I worked on this project, I wrote a 
couple shell scripts to reduce the amount of boring manual work. Also, I 
talked to Christian on IRC today, and he'll probably take over 
maintenance of this project from me, so I'll send the scripts to him.


BTW it might be better to create a new project (or split it into 
separate microprojects) instead. The four files that the website project 
currently hosts actually belong to three different websites: the main 
one, the extensions one and Google Play. Among these, the files for the 
main website are being altered and converted from php array format to 
gettext .po outside Pootle (that's what my shell scripts do). I think it 
might make sense to split resources that aren't originally in .po format 
into separate projects.


Rimas


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] International Website Translation: How to push po to website

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi Kevin,

your updates, along with all others, have now been pushed to the git
repository. That doesn't mean they will appear in our website right
away, but they're much closer to that now.

Regards,
Rimas

2014.03.17 04:36, 锁琨珑 wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> For the http://zh-cn.libreoffice.org website, I found in the Pootle
> server that almost all of the strings are translated, but on the website
> it shows many strings untranslated, or out of date.
>
> How can the translated po files on Pootle be pushed to the website? Is
> there any further steps needed, just like the "pushing po in Pootle to GIT"?
>
> Thanks
>
> Kevin Suo 锁琨珑
>


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] International Website Translation: How to push po to website

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi Kevin,

2014.03.17 04:36, 锁琨珑 wrote:
> For the http://zh-cn.libreoffice.org website, I found in the Pootle
> server that almost all of the strings are translated, but on the website
> it shows many strings untranslated, or out of date.
>
> How can the translated po files on Pootle be pushed to the website? Is
> there any further steps needed, just like the "pushing po in Pootle to GIT"?

website is a special type of project. For your translation to appear on
the website, someone has to check it out, convert to a
SilverStripe-specific PHP array format, and commit it to a certain
github repo (or clone that repo and make a pull request). That someone
is usually me, but it's not something I enjoy, so I only do that very
rarely. :)

So to answer your question, you can either poke me to make the missing
steps, or you can do that yourself. I would prefer the latter, but if
that is too troublesome for you, I can help.

Rimas

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] LibreOffice website localization?

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hello Aled,

2014.03.08 23:33, Cymrodor wrote:
I don't understand why there's no localised Welsh (Cymraeg) site at 
cy.libreoffice.org.


There appears to be a Welsh website translation at 100%; 
https://translations.documentfoundation.org/cy/


I mentioned this on a couple occasions previously. This small project on 
Pootle only covers localization of certain aspects of the website, such 
as the Downloads and Donations modules. To actually get your locale a 
website, you have to follow the instructions at 
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/NewWebsiteNLT .


Regards,
Rimas

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] New member in Latvian team for documentation

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi,

2014.03.05 23:24, Mihkel Tõnnov wrote:

2014-03-05 18:56 GMT+02:00 Rudolfs Mazurs :


Hello all,

a new translator (username in pootle is melhiors) applied to translate
LibreOffice and help in particular. Could someone grant him write access to
Latvian project and add LibreOffice help files to Latvian project?


Sveiks Rūdolfs,

Since it looks like you have admin rights for Latvian on Pootle, you can
give him the rights yourself. Go to
https://translations.documentfoundation.org/lv/admin.html and lookup
"melhiors" in the selection box, then choose the permissions he should have
(Ctrl+click for multiple selection). If he only should have access to Help,
then the URL is
https://translations.documentfoundation.org/lv/libo_help/admin_permissions.htmlof
course -- however, that will only work after someone (Andras? CC-ing)
has added the Help project for Latvian.


I just did. It seems to have made Pootle unresponsive for a couple 
minutes, sorry if anyone felt that.


Rūdolfs, you still have to give melhiors the permissions you want him to 
have. I haven't done that.



In any case, I wish the best of luck to Melhiors in translating the Help,
and hope he has more perseverance than I have had thus far in completing it
:)


I wish him best of luck as well!  :)

Rimas

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Languages l-z: pocheck errors (errors causing runtime problems): please fix

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi,

2013.12.29 18:04, Christian Lohmaier wrote:
> Langauges with errors: mai mk ml mn mni mr my nb ne nl nn nr nso oc om
> or pa-IN pt-BR ro rw sa-IN sat sd si sid sq ss st sv sw-TZ ta te tg tn
> tr ts ug uk uz vi xh zh-CN zu

Is that a mistake, or are there really no languages with errors that
have codes starting with "l"?

Rimas


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: Askbot localizations from the LibreOffice Pootle server

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi Zeki,

2013.11.28 00:18, Zeki Bildirici wrote:

Sory for the late reply.

Do you have our askbot translations(Turkish)? We had finished it but
now i see that transifex has an unfinished version there :(


I think I gave what we had in Pootle to Evgeny and he incorporated the 
translations. I wouldn't be surprised about incompleteness though – just 
like all products, Askbot is evolving, and strings are changing.


Rimas


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Translation of Impress Remote mobile app

[Rimas Kudelis]

Yes you can. English locale uses "one" instead of "%d", because because 
that is the only case when that plural form is used. But you can always 
use any placeholders you see in other plural forms of that same string.


Rimas

2013.11.18 15:20, Mihovil Stanic rašė:

On that same example link, can you use %d in first sentence also?
In croatian 1, 21, 31, 41, 51, 61... use same plural form, so I can't 
write Oneas word, it needs to be number.


Best regards,
Mihovil


Dana 18.11.2013 14:07, Andras Timar je napisao:
On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 1:15 PM, Mateusz Zasuwik  
wrote:

Hey

https://translations.documentfoundation.org/pl/android/translate.html#unit=41419252 



Why there are 3 fields and should I put there "\n" at the end of 
row? When
I didn't, all words are in one line and it is not compatible with 
source

phrase.

How many plural forms are there in Polish? Pootle thinks that there 
are 3.


Regards,
Andras







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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: Bambara / Bamanakan

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi JJ,

you are welcome, and thanks for your kind words! :)

Rimas


2013.11.12 22:27, jjmeric wrote:
> Dear Rimas
>
> Thanks very much for the launch pad!
> Your care with this is Highly appeciated.
> I'll have a look at it right now.
>
> Long life to "Atviras Kodas Lietuvai"
>
> I ni ce, i ni baraji ! k'i ni h?r? b?n!
> /approx Thanks & peace be with you!/
>
> JJ "Jire"
>
>
> Le 12/11/2013 20:48, Rimas Kudelis a écrit :
>> Hello JJ,
>>
>> Yes you can volunteer to be the lead.
>>
>> I have added Bambara to Pootle (note, the locale code I used is "bm"
>> instead of "bm-ML") and made you the admin of this locale. All you have
>> to do now is add yourself to the wiki page (you'll have to register on
>> the wiki to do that, or ask someone else) and start localizing.
>>
>> I've initialized the LibreOffice 4.1 UI project for you. That's plenty
>> of work. If you would want any other project initialized, ask for that
>> on the list.
>>
>> What you could also do before starting is to take care to publish the
>> information about the plural forms in your language on
>> http://docs.translatehouse.org/projects/localization-guide/en/latest/l10n/pluralforms.html
>>
>> and https://translations.launchpad.net/+languages/bm . From skimming a
>> Wikipedia article about your language, I assume that the correct plural
>> rule would be "nplurals=2; plural=(n != 1);" (which means, there's one
>> singular form for cases when there's just one object, and one plural
>> form for all other cases), but I'd rather have you confirm or correct
>> that (we don't (yet) make use of these forms in LibreOffice, but having
>> this well documented will definitely help other projects).
>>
>> There's plenty of info for beginners on the wiki, but I suspect it might
>> be a bit disorganized and difficult to find. For example, here's the
>> guide about using Pootle (thanks Sophie!):
>> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/PootleGuide .
>>
>> Good luck and don't hesitate to write to this list if you have questions
>> or feedback!
>> And apologies for ignoring your previous message.
>>
>> Rimas
>>
>> 2013.11.12 10:27, jjmeric wrote:
>>> I am reiterating my question, following the recommendations:
>>>
>>> /Get the necessary permissions from //*the *//*leads of your
>>> language project
>>> <http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Language_Teams>*//(contact the
>>> mailing list below if the language project does not exist or its
>>> lead is not specified or does not respond in a reasonable amount of
>>> time)//
>>> /
>>>
>>>
>>> There does not seem to be a "lead" for bambara/bamanan (bm-ML), so
>>> what do we do ?
>>> Can I volunteer to be that person ? and if yes how do I proceed to get
>>> things started!!!
>>>
>>> Thanks for help!
>>> JJ
>>>
>>> Le 07/11/2013 23:00, jjmeric a écrit :
>>>> Bambara (bm-ML) is a west African language spoken in several
>>>> countries, the main one being Mali (ML)
>>>> Please help me get started in opening what needs to be open on Pootle
>>>> and on the wiki.
>>>>
>>>> As a short introduction, I am a 3d year student at INALCO, Paris
>>>> (http://www.inalco.fr/)
>>>> I have implemented a spell-checker for the language, which I
>>>> submitted for Extensions but for some reason it does not show up
>>>> there (I need help there too!)
>>>>
>>>> Jean-Jacques
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: Bambara / Bamanakan

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hello JJ,

Yes you can volunteer to be the lead.

I have added Bambara to Pootle (note, the locale code I used is "bm"
instead of "bm-ML") and made you the admin of this locale. All you have
to do now is add yourself to the wiki page (you'll have to register on
the wiki to do that, or ask someone else) and start localizing.

I've initialized the LibreOffice 4.1 UI project for you. That's plenty
of work. If you would want any other project initialized, ask for that
on the list.

What you could also do before starting is to take care to publish the
information about the plural forms in your language on
http://docs.translatehouse.org/projects/localization-guide/en/latest/l10n/pluralforms.html
and https://translations.launchpad.net/+languages/bm . From skimming a
Wikipedia article about your language, I assume that the correct plural
rule would be "nplurals=2; plural=(n != 1);" (which means, there's one
singular form for cases when there's just one object, and one plural
form for all other cases), but I'd rather have you confirm or correct
that (we don't (yet) make use of these forms in LibreOffice, but having
this well documented will definitely help other projects).

There's plenty of info for beginners on the wiki, but I suspect it might
be a bit disorganized and difficult to find. For example, here's the
guide about using Pootle (thanks Sophie!):
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/PootleGuide .

Good luck and don't hesitate to write to this list if you have questions
or feedback!
And apologies for ignoring your previous message.

Rimas

2013.11.12 10:27, jjmeric wrote:
> I am reiterating my question, following the recommendations:
>
>/Get the necessary permissions from //*the *//*leads of your
>language project
>*//(contact the
>mailing list below if the language project does not exist or its
>lead is not specified or does not respond in a reasonable amount of
>time)//
>/
>
>
> There does not seem to be a "lead" for bambara/bamanan (bm-ML), so
> what do we do ?
> Can I volunteer to be that person ? and if yes how do I proceed to get
> things started!!!
>
> Thanks for help!
> JJ
>
> Le 07/11/2013 23:00, jjmeric a écrit :
>> Bambara (bm-ML) is a west African language spoken in several
>> countries, the main one being Mali (ML)
>> Please help me get started in opening what needs to be open on Pootle
>> and on the wiki.
>>
>> As a short introduction, I am a 3d year student at INALCO, Paris
>> (http://www.inalco.fr/)
>> I have implemented a spell-checker for the language, which I
>> submitted for Extensions but for some reason it does not show up
>> there (I need help there too!)
>>
>> Jean-Jacques
>>
>>
>
>


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Problem with wrong own file in Pootle Terminology

[Rimas Kudelis]

2013.11.08 20:53, Rimas Kudelis rašė:

Oy!

2013.11.08 19:34, Stanislav Horáček rašė:
I uploaded an own file with apparently wrong header (probably missing 
"\n"s) to the Czech Terminology project in Pootle. Now I can't access 
the Terminology project due to server error (unknown encoding). Is it 
possible to delete this file somehow and fix the problem?


Yeah, by navigating manually to 
https://translations.documentfoundation.org/cs/terminology/, which I 
just did. :)



Oops, I meant 
https://translations.documentfoundation.org/cs/terminology/delete/


Rimas


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Problem with wrong own file in Pootle Terminology

[Rimas Kudelis]

Oy!

2013.11.08 19:34, Stanislav Horáček rašė:
I uploaded an own file with apparently wrong header (probably missing 
"\n"s) to the Czech Terminology project in Pootle. Now I can't access 
the Terminology project due to server error (unknown encoding). Is it 
possible to delete this file somehow and fix the problem?


Yeah, by navigating manually to 
https://translations.documentfoundation.org/cs/terminology/, which I 
just did. :)


Regards,
Rimas

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] string freeze has been broken in libreoffice-4-1

[Rimas Kudelis]

2013.11.06 15:10, Andras Timar rašė:

Hi Sérgio,

On 2013.11.06. 1:11, Sérgio Marques wrote:

Hi Andras,

I´ve run "Update from templates" and now I have 205 words in sbasic
and 470 in shared. Is this ok?

These are to many changes from a brach that it is supposed to be freezed.


Well, we could have avoided re-translating the 470 words in shared,
because the translatable strings have not changed, only identifiers.
That's a pity. If only Pootle were more intelligent, and distinguished
tags from text...


And why were the identifiers changed?

Rimas

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Filtering strings on Pootle by submitter

[Rimas Kudelis]

2013.10.25 17:17, Dwayne Bailey wrote:
> There isn't a quick way on the current LO server I'm afraid. The
> version of Pootle that we're coding on now won't quite do what you
> suggested but would allow a query like the following:
> http://local-tm.testing.locamotion.org/ar/pootle/translate/#filter=user-submissions&user=khaled
> Which allows you to see all of user khaled's submissions. It isn't
> quite the same as your 'not mine' requirement, but is closer then we
> are now. So I'm not sure if you can wait for an updated Pootle to do
> such a review or if you want to do it now. Waiting will mean you
> should have something like this is 2-3 months. Doing it now would mean
> manually stepping through all the strings. 

Dwayne, while you guys are at it, can you also make it work with
suggestions? Say I want to see all suggestions made by a certain user.
That would be nice to have as well.

I can file a feature request on bugzilla if needed. :)

Rimas

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Localization for my_MM page

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hello,

2013.10.11 05:10, Yhal Htet Aung wrote:
> I am thinking to localize Myanmar language for LibreOffice project. Thanks
> :) So can you guys add my_MM (Burmese language = my) in your LibreOffice
> localization project? :)
>

isn't https://translations.documentfoundation.org/my/ what you're
looking for? I've set you as the admin for this language, cause it seems
unmaintained at the moment.

Once you start working, please also take time to add yourself to the
list here: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Language_Teams . And I
assume you have subscribed to the l10n list already? If not, you're
kindly advised to do so. ;)

Regards,
Rimas


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: LibreOffice Help

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi,

2013.10.09 10:59, Jan Holesovsky wrote:

<...>
> 2) Make wikihelp the source of the help
>
> This is something we need to do in order to be able to improve our help.
> Virtually nobody writes help these days, because of the format that is
> used there, and the workflow that need committing to git etc.  Only
> fraction of the new features has suitable help, and we need to change
> this.
>
> But - and that is important - we of course need to do it in a way that
> fits everyone, l10n most of all :-)  So as I assured you many times, no
> translation will be lost.  We only have to agree what fits you best; and
> before you answer that you want nothing else than Pootle, it would be
> good to test what Markus is about to set up; I am sure he'll write you
> more about that when it is ready for testing - and it will be up to you
> to decide if it is acceptable for you, or tell him what features are
> missing.  You will _not_ have to translate entire pages, the system is
> going to be very similar to Pootle, based on
> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Translate .

If this does not work out as well as expected, you may want to take a
look at https://github.com/mozilla/kitsune/ . This is the platform that
runs support.mozilla.org – a fully localizable Mozilla's support wiki,
which has superceded built-in help in Firefox and Thunderbird long ago.
Having used it a bit, I could say that its localization UI sucks at the
moment, but I think this problem should be easy to solve, because it is
limited to UI only.

Rimas

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] message par Kairaba Cissé

[Rimas Kudelis]

2013.08.31 23:46, Michael Bauer wrote:
Depending on how you look at it, there is only singular or only 
plural. Either way, the noun always is the same in counting. Just like 
Chinese.


Well I look at it from the .po header perspective. :) Thanks, I've set 
the amount of plural forms to 1 (from unknown) for N'ko now.


Rimas

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[libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] [The Document Foundation – Pootle server] message par Kairaba Cissé

[Rimas Kudelis]

2013.08.31 23:42, Michael Bauer rašė:

Hi Rimas,

Great :)

I'm doing a CLDR ticket on behalf of the team, but the rule is simple:
other → everything

i.e. there are no plurals at all.


so in other words, there's just one plural form, right?

Rimas

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[libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] [The Document Foundation – Pootle server] message par Kairaba Cissé

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi,

2013.08.31 17:52, ckair...@gmail.com wrote:

N'ko has been recently accepted for the localization of libreoffice. For more 
info, see : https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=64331
Is it possible to add n'ko on this pootle interface ?


yes, and I just did. Happy translating!

Rimas

P.S. if anyone knows how many plural forms N'ko has, please enlighten me. :)

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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] L10n of Florian's Windows installer

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi Chris,

just wanted to let you know that your attachments didn't reach the list.

BTW, I wonder if your CSV->po conversion works both ways (as in, whether
you can generate a CSV file with all languages from multiple .po files).
But perhaps the conversion is not needed at all, if Florian could use
multiple CSV files instead of one. In that case, we could just have a
project with files of type CSV in Pootle
(http://docs.translatehouse.org/projects/translate-toolkit/en/latest/formats/csv.html).


P.S. I wish http://bugs.locamotion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=396 would be
implemented... That would help us avoid all conversions.

Rimas

2013.08.28 13:26, Chris Leonard rašė:
> Please review the attached POT file.
>
>
> Note typo is present that should be fixed before use:
>
> #: dirnotfoundmessage
> msgid "Please check your choosen directory!"
> msgstr ""
>
> to
>
> #: dirnotfoundmessage
> msgid "Please check your chosen directory!"
> msgstr ""
>
>
> cjl
>
> On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 4:38 AM, Florian Reisinger
>  wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> It is okay for me, but I have not used Pootle a lot...
>> For me it would be the best to give you a xls [I use a program to import
>> them into the .resx file format] file and get one in return from time to
>> time, or if I ask to...
>>
>> I hope that this is okay for all of you :)
>>
>> Am 28.08.2013 10:11, schrieb Sophie:
>>> Hi Chris, Florian, all,
>>> Le 28/08/2013 01:00, Chris Leonard a écrit :
 It would really help you manage translation workflow if you just
 posted the POT to the Pootle "templates" language.  You can easily
 create a new project for this if you want it seperate from other
 projects.

 If this is spreadsheet based, using csv2po and po2csv might be needed.
>>> Taking into account the number of localizations we have now I think that
>>> would be the best for all of us.
>>> Florian, is it ok for you if we use Pootle to maintain the localization
>>> flow, this is where we are used to work for all the LibreOffice projects.
>>> Cheers
>>> Sophie
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Liebe Grüße, / Yours,
>> Florian Reisinger


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] L10n of Florian's Windows installer

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi Florian,

would it work if you got one CSV file for each language? Each file would
contain three columns:
Name | en-US string | target string

If that would do, we wouldn't need any conversion at all to fill these
files in Pootle, I believe.

Rimas

2013.08.28 11:38, Florian Reisinger rašė:
> Hi all,
>
> It is okay for me, but I have not used Pootle a lot...
> For me it would be the best to give you a xls [I use a program to import
> them into the .resx file format] file and get one in return from time to
> time, or if I ask to...
>
> I hope that this is okay for all of you :)
>
> Am 28.08.2013 10:11, schrieb Sophie:
>> Hi Chris, Florian, all,
>> Le 28/08/2013 01:00, Chris Leonard a écrit :
>>> It would really help you manage translation workflow if you just
>>> posted the POT to the Pootle "templates" language.  You can easily
>>> create a new project for this if you want it seperate from other
>>> projects.
>>>
>>> If this is spreadsheet based, using csv2po and po2csv might be needed.
>> Taking into account the number of localizations we have now I think that
>> would be the best for all of us.
>> Florian, is it ok for you if we use Pootle to maintain the localization
>> flow, this is where we are used to work for all the LibreOffice projects.
>> Cheers
>> Sophie
>>
>


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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Bugs to fix in translations

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi,

2013-08-20 00:27, Andras Timar rašė:

Pootle has many checks, but there are cases which are not covered. You
may remember the style name localization issue from last month.
Therefore I wrote a tool which checked three types of translation
errors:

1. Unique style names.
2. Unique spreadsheet function names.
3. Missing trailing '|' in Windows installer translation.

I uploaded the report to
http://dev-www.libreoffice.org/l10n/error-report/report.txt

I checked 4.1.1 sources.

Affected locales are:
af am ast be bn bn-IN bo br brx bs cy da de dgo dz el en-ZA eo es eu
fa fr gl gu he hi hr id it ka kk km kn ko kok ks ku lb lo lt mai mk ml
mn mni mr my nb ne nl nn nr nso oc om or pa-IN pl pt ro rw sa-IN sat
sd si sid sq ss st sv sw-TZ ta tg th tn tr ts tt ug uz ve vi xh zu


I just fixed lt.

BTW I'm not so fond of localizable Calc function names. Is that our 
invention, or does Microsoft do that as well?


Furthermore, perhaps locales should at least be preseeded with the 
original function names? Because its a bit dumb when our machinery 
"localizes" SUMIFS as SUMIF, just because SUMIF was already "localized" 
as SUMIF (surprise!) previously. And now that I think of it, that 
"localization" most likely wasn't even marked as fuzzy. How come?


Rimas

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[libreoffice-l10n] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] [The Document Foundation – Pootle server] Rauf KALES tarafından ileti

[Rimas Kudelis]

Hi,

this looks like a bug report for Turkish locale. I hope the Turkish team 
can take care of this and send a thankyou letter? :)


Rimas

2013.08.23 12:20, rka...@gmail.com rašė:

Merhaba
Libreoffice 4.1 kullanımında rastladığım bir hatayı paylaşmak istiyorum.
Fonksiyonlarda yer alan 2 ad. ETOPLA mevcut bunlardan birisi çoklu etoplama 
yapıyor. Excelde bu yüzden ÇOKETOPLA olarak adlandırılmış. Uygun görülecek bir 
isimle değiştirilmesinde yarar var. Bu fonksiyonlarda düzgün çalışmıyor. 
Tahminen bu iki isimin aynı olması bir hataya neden oluyor.
Bilgilerinize
Saygılar





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