[Lazarus] Bls: Example of full screen console program anywhere?
If the Free Vision code seems a bit complicated and complex to you, you may
want to study the classic CRT unit (from the Turbo Pascal era). Basically it
"draws" chars to the console screen, using method like ClrScr, GotoXY, WhereX,
WhereY, etc. It's also able to read keystrokes, using method like ReadKey,
Keypressed, etc. I think it's good enough for console app with simple
interactions. However, I'm not sure whether it works with SSH and unicode.
–Mr Bee
Pada Jumat, 29 April 2016 1:28, Bo Berglund menulis:
On Thu, 28 Apr 2016 15:23:01 +0200, Bo Berglund
wrote:
I went ahead and created a new Console Application in Lazarus where I
use the same object for controlling the GPIO pins as I did in the GUI
program.
The Console program just initializes the control object then enters
into a repeat loop reading a key from the user and then interpreting
the key in a case construct for valid commands.
It exits if the q key is pressed.
When I run this in Lazarus all operates according to plan but as soon
as I try to run it outside of the GUI, for example in a terminal in
Raspbian or in a PuTTY terminal connected by SSH to the RPi literally
nothing works of the stuff that should happen in the repeat loop!
What I get is the greeting message and then when I press the keys that
should produce the action nothing at all happens including pressing q,
which is the exit code out of the loop and should terminate the
program.
For some reason it was possible to close it using Ctrl-C, though.
In Lazarus I use the debug window "Terminal Output" and here
everything planned works fine!
What a mystery! This is the first time I have encountered such a
difference!
After some further debugging I found that the keypresses are not even
handled in the repeat loop. It uses this type of construct:
//Display main screen
Writeln('Controls are:');
Writeln('p = Toggle 12V SS Power ON/OFF');
Writeln('w = Toggle WiFi Power feed ON/OFF');
Writeln('l = Toggle Alarm Lamp ON/OFF');
Writeln('s = Start SS by sending a 1s pulse');
Writeln('q = Quit the program and reset the control lines');
Writeln('Press any key!');
//Check input and act on commands
repeat
Read(cKey);
case cKey of
'p': //SS Power toggle command
...
until cKey = 'q';
end;
I added debug printing to the case sections to see what was sent in
and the answer was NOTHING!
It seems like Read() does not return anything for a simple key press
unlike what happens in the Lazarus debug window. So the program
probably just hangs on the Read(cKey) command, but in Lazarus it does
not so it is impossible to debug...
Then I tested to use the Enter key and surprise! Now the relays
operate...
But this should happen exactly when the key is pressed not when Enter
is also pressed later. I use Read() instead of Readln() just in order
to get one single key to process...
What could be done to fix this?
>
>--
>Bo Berglund
>Developer in Sweden
--
Bo Berglund
Developer in Sweden
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[Lazarus] Bls: how to modify or add component after Application.Run method?
No, I can't put them in the Form1's OnCreate event. Because the additional code wouldn't be just from me, but the could be from others as well. I'd like to make the main application into a unit. So, the form should be established on the unit call. The other would simply use the unit and add or modify any components of the existing Form1. Do you understand what I'm trying to achieve? I think it should be possible to do, I just don't know how to do it properly. I've looked at the PostMessage method, but I don't think it suits my need. CMIIW. Regards, –Mr Bee Pada Minggu, 24 Januari 2016 15:48, Sven Barth menulis: Am 24.01.2016 09:46 schrieb "Mr Bee" : > > Hi, > > Common Lazarus project source code contains this snippet: > > begin > Application.Initialize; > Application.CreateForm(TForm, Form1); > Application.Run; > end. > > Adding code to modify or add components of/into Form1 after the > Application.Run method will be ignored because it's out of the application's > main thread. So, is there a correct and safe way to do it? > > begin > Application.Initialize; > Application.CreateForm(TForm, Form1); > Application.Run; > // how to make below code be executed? > Form1.Caption := 'My caption'; > Form1.Edit1.Text := 'My text input'; > MyLabel := TMyLabel.Create(Form1); > MyLabel.Parent := Form1; > MyLabel.Caption := 'My runtime label'; > // or one could add any arbitraty code here > end. Put it into the form's OnCreate event handler. This kind of code does > not belong into the main project file anyway.Regards, Sven -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
[Lazarus] how to modify or add component after Application.Run method?
Hi, Common Lazarus project source code contains this snippet: begin Application.Initialize; Application.CreateForm(TForm, Form1); Application.Run;end. Adding code to modify or add components of/into Form1 after the Application.Run method will be ignored because it's out of the application's main thread. So, is there a correct and safe way to do it? begin Application.Initialize; Application.CreateForm(TForm, Form1); Application.Run; // how to make below code be executed? Form1.Caption := 'My caption'; Form1.Edit1.Text := 'My text input'; MyLabel := TMyLabel.Create(Form1); MyLabel.Parent := Form1; MyLabel.Caption := 'My runtime label'; // or one could add any arbitraty code hereend. Thank you. :) Regards, –Mr Bee -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
[Lazarus] Bls: Get Lazarus January 2016 Update
Did you upload it to youtube as well? Would you mind to share the URL here? Viewing directly from the site is very slow. :( –Mr Bee Pada Kamis, 21 Januari 2016 5:19, Dmitry Boyarintsev menulis: On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 4:53 PM, Anthony Walter wrote: A new Lazarus layout with the component pallet removed and coolbar buttons in its place. The a docked form designer is now the default form editor. Nice job! Feels like switching for D7 to Turbo Delphi :) thanks, Dmitry -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] FPC Pestering Peacock (3.0.0) release
> The 3.0.0 docs is available at > http://www.freepascal.org/docs-html/3.0.0/fpctoc.htm The doc can't be open. 404. -- -Bee- -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] VCLJS
On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 1:31 PM, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: > On Tue, 30 Jun 2015, Bee wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> Just found this: http://www.vcljs.com >> Is it possible to use it as LCL for the web? >> > > I would not recommend it. It's typescript, not javascript. Typescript is > an M$ experiment. You need visual studio for it to work. (conceivably it > can be used without VS, but it is an additional hurdle). > TypeScript outputs JavaScript, right? Is it possible to use the JS directly? > There are many javascript "widgetsets" out there that can be used as "VCL > for the web": React, ExtJS, Angular, Jquery UI etc. Focusing on one is not > the right approach IMHO. Not to mention that they all evolve at > breathtaking speed, and what is current today is no longer current next > year. Supporting one of many JS libraries doesn't mean only focusing on one and only that. Consider it like desktop widgetset, there are GDI, QT, GTK, Cocoa, etc. I just found another alternative. Its advantage is similar object model to VCL, so perhaps it might attract someone out here to create a new web-widget project. :) -- -Bee- -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
[Lazarus] VCLJS
Hi all, Just found this: http://www.vcljs.com Is it possible to use it as LCL for the web? Regards, -- -Bee- -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
[Lazarus] VCLJS
Hi all, Just found this: http://www.vcljs.com Is it possible to use it as --say-- LCL for the web? Regards, -- -Bee- -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
[Lazarus] how to build lazarus on raspberry pi 1
Hi all, I just got my Raspberry Pi 1 B+ model (Raspbian). I want to install the latest Free Pascal and Lazarus on it. I managed to successfully build Free Pascal trunk (v.3.1.1 from FPC's official SVN) on it using Free Pascal stable (v.2.6.4-arm-linux from FPC's official SourceForge repository). But I still failed to make the debugger works on the text-mode IDE. Any help how to make it works is very much appreciated. Now, I'm trying to build Lazarus trunk, using FPC trunk. The build command is: pi@raspi /usr/local/lazarus/trunk $ sudo make clean all OPT="-CpARMv6 -dFPC_ARMHF" It's the same 'make' command I had used to build the FPC trunk. Unfortunately, it failed building Lazarus while assembling 'codeexplorer.pas'. The error message is: ... Compiling codeexplorer.pas Assembling codeexplorer codeexplorer.pas(2831) Error: Can't call the assembler, error -1 switching to external assembling codeexplorer.pas(2831) Fatal: There were 2 errors compiling module, stopping Fatal: Compilation aborted Makefile:3795: recipe for target 'lazarus' failed ... Which I think a bit strange, because how could it not call the assembler? It's clearly there and the same assembler has been used to build FPC trunk successfully. I still haven't find any solutions to solve this problem. Could anybody here provide some clues? Thank you. Regards, -- -Bee- -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Embedded/small database
I don't understand why FreePascal users need SQLite while we already have ZMSQL. Basically ZMSQL acts more or less like sqLite. But ZMSQL doesn't need external library. Check it out at: http://wiki.freepascal.org/ZMSQL On Wed, Feb 18, 2015 at 4:28 PM, patspiper wrote: > On 17/02/15 21:50, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: > >> >> >> On Tue, 17 Feb 2015, Kostas Michalopoulos wrote: >> >> Sqlite can be very fast, but it needs the proper setup for that (which >>> may not be >>> relevant in all cases). >>> >>> Beyond that, Sqlite has a lot of high profile users (not to make a piss >>> match, but i >>> couldn't see any big users in Firebird's site and even those didn't seem >>> to mention if >>> it was embedded or client/server): >>> >>> https://www.sqlite.org/famous.html >>> >>> There are other less known uses of course, like the Fossil VCS and AFAIK >>> Apple also >>> uses it for the time capsule and FS versioning. >>> >>> Honestly, i wouldn't put down Sqlite :-). >>> >> >> I would. Any database that allows you to store a string in a field that >> is declared as integer (as sqlite does), is out. It goes against the basic >> rules of the RDBMs: ACID. Period. >> >> If you ever encounter such a situation, the whole pascal db code simply >> goes 'poof'. >> If the table definition says 'integer', it should be an integer. if >> sqlite does not guarantee this (and it does not, it considers this a >> feature), it is out. >> >> I don't even understand that any pascal programmer (pascal being stronly >> typed) can consider such a system. But there are many things I don't >> understand :) >> > > Is there any other free WinCE database engine? > > Stephano > > > -- > ___ > Lazarus mailing list > Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org > http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus > -- -Bee- -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Handheld development
On 26 Jul 2010, at 23:16, wrote: > FreePascal definitely works on iPhone and I know at least of 2 apps that > are on the appstore that were written using FreePascal. May we know which fpc-made app that already went on Apple appstore? I think it could become a good material to promote FPC/Lazarus. TIA. -Bee- -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] New website www.lazarussupport.com launched
On 21 Jun 2010, at 13:01, Rigel Rig wrote: > Great work! The best reply so far, IMO. A bit of compliment won't hurt anybody. ;) -Bee- -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] fpweb for delphi?
On 31 Mei 2010, at 15:32, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: > Hah ! :-) LOL :D You had never heard of it, haven't you? :P > Bee, you didn't just make my day, you made my week. Thanks a lot !! :-) You're welcome. > Work on fcl-web will definitely continue with double effort :-) Glad to hear that. Let's make fpWeb a famous web development framework! ;) Well... since the first day I knew web programming, I never believe scripting web app would perform equally, yet better, than native web app. It seems that I'm still correct. :) Pity facebook developers, they learned the lesson in a very hard way. I never underestimate PHP role in web development though. But as Marco said, it's only good for small-to-medium web apps that doing nothing critical. Unless, you want to spend more money to upgrade your server machine. As Facebook had done before they started to invent HipHop. ;) -Bee- -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] fpweb for delphi?
On 30 Mei 2010, at 23:09, Myles Wakeham wrote: > Huh? Ever heard of Facebook? Or SugarCRM? They are PHP apps. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HipHop_for_PHP Even facebook developers know that native app will outperform scripting on any cases. They ended up rewriting PHP RTL, extension, etc. They wouldn't need to invent HipHop if they created facebook using native solution since the beginning. ;) -Bee- -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] fpweb for delphi?
On 30 Mei 2010, at 18:37, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: > If I had to buy a new toolbox for every new problem, I would have been > bancrupt a long time ago. Most non-developers people usually think that something that is sooo popular, then it must be the best. Which is another fallacy, I suppose. Unfortunately, some developers think that way as well. ;) -Bee- -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] fpweb for delphi?
On 30 Mei 2010, at 07:30, Dimitri Smits wrote: > and that was just in D7 already! Does it support Linux? Kylix? What about 64 bit servers? :P > God (and Delphi 2010 buyers) know(s) what they have in there nowadays! Are they using those tools? No? Why? > On the other hand, why anybody would want to develop new webapps (on new > db's) in delphi or fpc for that matter seems a bit like a > one-tool-in-my-toolbox mindset. "If all you have/know is a hammer, every > problem looks like a nail." I don't think so. If I need to migrate desktop apps -many of them with thousands if not millions LOC- into web apps, why should I rewrite them in a another language from scratch? So I need to retest the whole thing over again from the beginning? While I could simply change the desktop form into web page and keep the app logic untouched, well... at least most of them. Even if I need to write to a new fresh web app, why should I learn new language and framework while I could write it in pascal (more effective and efficient thus more productive) using existing and my well-tested pascal frameworks and skills? Learning a new syntax is easy but finding its tidbits does need times. > There are other languages far more suited for webdevelopment! PHP, Perl, > Ruby(-on-rails), java, silverlight.net, ... Why are they more suited? Because most of them are scripting and managed/VM with poor performance? Why do you think pascal isn't suited for web app development? > Especially when the client(s)/user(s) use small webhosting. While you may > find that they offer php AND CGI, you may not find out the > (processor)architecture or flavor of linux so that you even CAN compile your > CGI, let alone run it safely on the hosting provider's machine(s). It's not hard to ask the provider about those informations, or even maybe they're already mentioned somewhere in the docs. > You only sometimes have (a somewhat limited) shell access to their machine > anyway. And as for a "product", you need to use the greatest common > denominator anyway. So that pretty much leaves you with php anyway ;-) To deploy a CGI app is simply upload it to cgi-bin folder, nothing fancy. CGI support is standard feature on common web hosting anyway. > And there IS a Delphi4PHP out there (from > Embarcadero/CodeGears/Borland/Inprise/...). It is a graphical designer like > Delphi (the IDE, not the object pascal language) that allows you to make RAD > like a php application with a frontend in javascript, based on the Qooxdoo > open source framework. In fact, they have reïmplemented a large part of the > VCL in javascript so that you can transfer your skills in Delphi VCL (the > objectpascal framework) to there without knowing much javascript. Spend more dollars for an unfinished product? :P I don't mind spending my money on a dev tool. But it doesn't count a out-dated buggy ones. Frontend UI is just a part of web app. Using advance JS UI framework i.e. qooxdoo, extjs, isn't hard too. You just need to learn how to use it to build your UI, no need to learn all JS programming aspects. In some ways, they're just replacement of .dfm/.lfm files. -Bee- -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] fpweb with fcgi samples
On 28 Mei 2010, at 17:07, Joost van der Sluis wrote: > But they allow you to run a separate application as a daemon? Strange... That's why I asked for autoshutdown feature in another mail in the other list (since it's not about lazarus). > Or do you forward requests to another host? Yes, that's another useful advantage of CGI gateway. > Offcourse, but I saw the gateway and was wondering why someone wanted to > use that. I've been using it. :) -Bee- -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] fpweb with fcgi samples
On 28 Mei 2010, at 16:35, Joost van der Sluis wrote: > Yes, just copy the fcl-web from trunk over the one in fixes. When 2.4.2 > is released we can also provide a fppkg package for that. Ah, that's a relevation. I was afraid fpWeb is using special features that only available on 2.5.1. I hope you could keep it compatible with 2.4.x. Thank you. -Bee- -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] fpweb with fcgi samples
On 28 Mei 2010, at 16:33, Joost van der Sluis wrote: > Can you name me one? On hosting that only support CGI but not FCGI. > Well, according to me there is no reason why you would use fastcgi > besides speed. (Caching and startuptimes) Yes. I meant the CGI gateway solution, I knew it's not that fast, but I need it on some circumstances. Everyone need may vary though. > Offcourse they are. But not for the framework. I see. BTW... thanks fcl-web package. -Bee- -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] fpweb with fcgi samples
On 28 Mei 2010, at 15:07, Joost van der Sluis wrote: > fpWeb is too much under development now. The interface may be > changed in the future, so it's not ready for 2.4.2. Is it possible to compile them with 2.4.2? So, I could simply copy them somewhere and use them with 2.4.2. -Bee- -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] fpweb for delphi?
On 27 Mei 2010, at 18:56, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: > I don't think we will do this. It will require too many changes. Yes, I've seen the code. fpWeb has a very tight dependency to other fcl packages. Poor Delphi people. ;) -Bee- -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] fpweb with fcgi samples
On 28 Mei 2010, at 15:10, Joost van der Sluis wrote: > Gateway? Why? There are some situations when gateway could provide a better solution. > That's even slower then normal cgi. Because the gateway is > in fact an cgi aplication that calls your fastcgi application. I believe you already know that speed isn't everything in software development. > Fcgi is the same as cgi. Except that the process is started once and not > for each call. Then, they're different, at least too me. ;) -Bee- -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] fpweb with fcgi samples
On 28 Mei 2010, at 15:01, Joost van der Sluis wrote: > Please, don't do what that link says. Why does everybody do so difficult > when then want to use fcgi? It's a common, widely used technology. Even > by php. Well... it seems that not everybody is as smart as you are, Joost. Even many people -yes, there are also programmers- still don't understand how web app work. Let them learn by mistakes. ;) -Bee- -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] fpweb with fcgi samples
On 27 Mei 2010, at 21:52, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: > You can do this for fcgi as well, if you set the port number before > the Run statement. Requires the use of ExternalCGI feature in Apache, or > the new CGI->FastCGI gateway. Can we have all of this on the next fpc 2.4.2? -Bee- -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
[Lazarus] fpweb for delphi?
Hi all, I saw fpWeb has potential to be known as a good web framework for pascal language. But, I also saw it's too heavily tighted with FPC infrastructure. Can we make it more independend so it can also be used by Delphi? I think it could make pascal more known to the web developers crowd out there. -Bee- -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] fpweb with fcgi samples
On 27 Mei 2010, at 16:40, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: > You just need to create a fastcgi application (lazarus file-new then > Project/FastCGI application). It will automatically create a module. > But you can include the modules you need from other applications. I'll try. I knew about fpWeb before but I never really touch it. :) > The only difference between the CGI/FastCGI/Module/Embedded is that the > project type is different. The actual code is the same. Is there any docs about FCGI? Supported FCGI feature? Unsupported feature? Limitations? Advantages? etc. TIA. -Bee- -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
[Lazarus] fpweb with fcgi samples
Hi all, I'm about to study fpWeb and its FCGI support. But I didn't see any example that are using FCGI in SVN trunk. There are only CGIs and Apache modules. Can they be used with FCGI simply by changing the used unit? I also couldn't find any suffiecient docs about the FCGI support. Any hints? TIA. -Bee- -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] PRADO - PHP in Delphi/Lazarus style
On 22 Mei 2010, at 06:15, Vannus wrote: > Might interest anyone wanting Delphi/Lazarus approach in any PHP stuff they > are tackling. How about this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVUMW0V9nGs ;) -Bee- -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] installing lazarus 64bit on snow leopard
On 21 Mei 2010, at 23:19, Bee Jay wrote: >> 5. where did the SQLdb tab and components go? > > I haven't found it yet why it doesn't appear on the component tabs. It's weird. Rebuild the Lazarus from scratch (clean all, remove dir, etc), suddenly the package installation went fine! Well, another digital anomaly, I suppose. :D >> 7. how is the GDB debugger integration status with FPC/Lazarus 64 bit? > > I haven't found it yet. So, for now I have to live with Lazarus without gdb > support. Quite a pain, actually. :( A clean Lazarus installation from SVN as I described before is able to work with GDB. But once I touch the compiler options, change any of it, would make the IDE hang up every time I click run/build/compile. I found no other way to resolve this except rebuild Lazarus from scratch again. Well, I think I could live with that. Final binary can be created from the command line. It seems only me who uses Lazarus on Mac SL 64 bit here since nobody else replied to this thread. Thanks anyway. :) -Bee- -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] installing lazarus 64bit on snow leopard
On 21 Mei 2010, at 21:39, Bee Jay wrote: After rethinking about it... I don't think I won't be able to use 64 bit Lazarus as long as I use Carbon since Carbon is 32 bit anyway. Unless Lazarus support for Cocoa goes beta (at least) while it's still on alpha today. However, I still able to create 64 bit app on Mac if I don't use Carbon i.e. web app or console app. Well, that's what I use Lazarus for anyway. I use Lazarus only as IDE since I have no need to build GUI app on Mac. So, 32 bit Lazarus on SL is alright. :D > 1. how to install 64 bit FPC 2.4.0 on Mac SL (64 bit) through the .dmg > installer? is there any special option or param? > 2. since I also plan to switch to FPC fixes branch (through SVN), then... how > to install 64 bit FPC 2.4.1 on Mac SL (64 bit) through 'make' command? I have found -P param. Sorry. :D > 3. since I don't want to use stable release, then... how to install 64 bit > Lazarus on Mac SL through 'make' command? No need until Cocoa is mature enough to be used to build Lazarus IDE. > 4. how to make sure Lazarus 64 bit will produce 64 bit app on Mac SL? This time only to produce non-GUI 64 bit app, use -P param (compiler option). > 5. where did the SQLdb tab and components go? I haven't found it yet why it doesn't appear on the component tabs. > 6. is FPC and Lazarus 64 bit ready to be used on 64 bit Mac-intel to produce > stable apps? FPC is ready, I suppose. But, Lazarus isn't. :( > 7. how is the GDB debugger integration status with FPC/Lazarus 64 bit? I haven't found it yet. So, for now I have to live with Lazarus without gdb support. Quite a pain, actually. :( Well... I think I have answered most of my own questions. :D But, I'm still waiting for any suggestions on the unanswered ones. ;) -Bee- -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] installing lazarus 64bit on snow leopard
On 21 Mei 2010, at 21:46, Mattias Gaertner wrote: > Use make clean after a svn update. This is my first check out on my newly fresh installed Mac SL. > Or even better: use lazbuild. I usually use IDE to rebuild Lazarus. I only use 'make' once in a while when the IDE isn't yet available (I never installed Lazarus from installer package, always from SVN) or the IDE somehow goes wrong (to reproduce a clean IDE). > I doubt that it created the executable. I think the compilation stopped when it tried to compile Lazarus with a package (jcf package?). Before that, it seemed that the executable already been created but without any additional packages linked in. > Maybe the old was not deleted? There was no old Lazarus on the machine. This is a clean fresh Mac SL machine, no fpc nor Lazarus installed before. And it was the first time I run the 'make'. > Probably because you started the old one. No Lazarus was installed before. I'm very sure of it. > I never tried 64bit on Mac. Thanks for the help. -Bee- -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
[Lazarus] installing lazarus 64bit on snow leopard
Hi all, I'm just doing a clean upgrade to Mac OS X 10.6.3 (Snow Leopard 64 bit) from Mac OS X 10.5.8 (Leopard 32 bit) on my Intel-based Mac machine. I used to have FPC 2.2.4 and Lazarus SVN for 32 bit on Leopard 32 bit and all went fine there. Since now I'm on 64 bit environment, I'd like to also have 64 bit FPC and Lazarus. This is my first experience with FPC/Lazarus on 64 bit environment. For FPC, I installed FPC 2.4.0 for Mac Intel, downloaded from SourceForge. The installer (fpc-2.4.0.intel-macosx.dmg) note said that it includes both FPC for 32 and 64 bit. FPC installation all went good. For Lazarus, I choose to use the SVN trunk. After updated the SVN, as I usually did on Leopard, I installed Lazarus using 'make' command: make all bigide LCL_PLATFORM=carbon It usually went fine on Leopard, but this time I faced this error message: ... Free Pascal Compiler version 2.4.0 [2009/12/20] for i386 Copyright (c) 1993-2009 by Florian Klaempfl Target OS: Darwin for i386 Compiling lazarus.pp Compiling /Volumes/User Data/Bee/Repository/laz-devel/packager/pkgmanager.pas Assembling pkgmanager Fatal: Can't find unit JcfSettings used by TokenUtils Fatal: Compilation aborted make[2]: *** [lazarus] Error 1 make[1]: *** [bigide] Error 2 make: *** [idebig] Error 2 ... and the compilation stopped here. Despite the error message, the Lazarus executable still produced, so I continued with the next 'make' command: make install The installation went fine and the Lazarus installed on /usr/local/share/lazarus as it used to be on Leopard. Then, I run the Lazarus (.app) and it went fine. Since I knew the building through 'make' isn't went smooth, I rebuild Lazarus from IDE (Tools } Build Lazarus menu). Before build, I installed SQLdb package first. Then, rebuild. The rebuild process went fine and a empty form can be compiled and run fine. But... there are some problems: - the Lazarus seems to be still 32 bit app (I knew it from Activity Monitor). - Lazarus still produces 32 bit app as well. - the SQLdb tab and components is not there though Lazarus Package Manager clearly shows that it's installed. - when I enabled the debugger (GDB), Lazarus went hang every time I compile/run an app (empty form). It made Lazarus completely unusable, so I disabled it again. I think I must did something wrong with both FPC and Lazarus installation on 64 bit. So, here I ask: 1. how to install 64 bit FPC 2.4.0 on Mac SL (64 bit) through the .dmg installer? is there any special option or param? 2. since I also plan to switch to FPC fixes branch (through SVN), then... how to install 64 bit FPC 2.4.1 on Mac SL (64 bit) through 'make' command? 3. since I don't want to use stable release, then... how to install 64 bit Lazarus on Mac SL through 'make' command? 4. how to make sure Lazarus 64 bit will produce 64 bit app on Mac SL? 5. where did the SQLdb tab and components go? 6. is FPC and Lazarus 64 bit ready to be used on 64 bit Mac-intel to produce stable apps? 7. how is the GDB debugger integration status with FPC/Lazarus 64 bit? For any hints and replies, I thank you in advance. -Bee- -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus make me create better apps
On 18 Mei 2010, at 21:40, Myles Wakeham wrote: > ... ... Agree with all what you have said. We've been facing the exact same problem as yours. We're also a Linux shop here and completely not providing Windows solution due the money factor. Our solution for building huge enterprise-scale web app is using PHP (scripting), Java (managed), and Pascal (native) altogether combining each best advantages. For the same reasons, we avoid to use any company-dependend technologies such as Flash, .Net, or Silverlight for the browser side and choose the open standard alternatives (HTML, CSS, and JS). We must realize and admit that Pascal still lacks of tools for web app development. :( > There is a sense that web development work feels like writing mainframe apps > in the early 1980s. Its slower, more cumbersome and you have to feel like > there must be a better way to do this. The ability to craft a PC application > quickly due to great IDEs, WYSIWYG tools, etc. has enabled development to be > done quickly for the desktop environment. I guess we're all just waiting for > the day when web development can be done as fast. I feel we are still a long > way off, but it does mean that whoever can achieve this will ultimately > dominate the web development space. I look back to what it took to write the > same application in 1985 in, say, Turbo Pascal, vs. embracing something like > Delphi/Laz/FPC today, and its night & day. But despite advances in software > engineering practices such as object oriented, design frameworks, etc. > writing web apps today is still more like a TP app development project in > 1985 than a Delphi desktop windows app in 2010. EXACTLY! That's why I hate web app development in the first place. After more than 10 years being spoiled by Delphi and then Lazarus, writing web app today is like back to those TP days. Morfik had been trying to solve this very issue, but I don't think it's ready for the prime time yet. Somehow I feel that Morfik's solution is still incomplete. There's must be something missing, though I don't know for sure what it is. Another effort is ExtPascal, but I think it's still in its fetus phase, looong way before it's ready for serious web app development tool and compete with the big boys' toys. If we're really serious about this, we should join the project and help the development. -Bee- -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus make me create better apps
On 18 Mei 2010, at 16:01, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: > On Tue, 18 May 2010, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote: > >> And when you used Object Pascal for web apps, you can use anything in >> the RTL, FCL, database components, Object Persistent Frameworks (eg: >> tiOPF) etc... ANY non-visual component - all out of the box >> functionality available. >> >> THIS is way we (our company) opted to use Object Pascal for our web >> apps instead of PHP (which for the latter is *much* slower too). > > Not to mention that it is inherently much safer than PHP. +1 both for Graeme and Michael. Or, should I say +2? :D A thing that is being used everywhere never means it's the best. ;) -Bee- -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus make me create better apps
On 18 Mei 2010, at 03:12, Lee Jenkins wrote: > I think the traditional barrier has been the deployment issue which probably > made pascal based web application or servers more common to > workgroup/intranet applications. Yes, though binary CGI support is also very common. > The problem I think has also been lack of a central and openly available > (open source?) framework to rally around for web development in pascal in > order to foster an eco-system like we see with traditional 3rd party > components and libraries. What framework do you need to build web apps using pascal? Web apps is just about read browser request and reply to it. A custom simple communication class (to encapsulate the request-reply process) should be sufficient. > I've been playing with javascript (particularly the dojo framework) a lot > lately and its really not that bad once you get used to the loosey goosey > weak typing and creating function objects on the fly as parameters to > functions, etc. Making web pages using pascal is a bit tedious work due to HTML and CSS thingy. But for web apps, especially RIA, with the help of good JS UI framework, you just simply need to learn JS and a bit of JSON. For people who had been working for years with pascal and need to move to web app development, code reuse is a HUGE advantage. Code reuse isn't just about copy-paste the code, but also the testability and stability, which you need to do it again from start if you rewritten in another language. -Bee- -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus make me create better apps
On 18 Mei 2010, at 01:42, Myles Wakeham wrote: > Agreed. PHP is a 'staple' in web development, and is benefited by a large > number of mature frameworks supporting multiple design patterns, IDEs in > large deployments (ie. Eclipse, Netbeans, etc.) and a huge community. Well... with pascal you got Lazarus or Delphi, VCL or LCL, and also both community. > However with that said, we are about to embark of developing much of our > shipped application software in FPC/Lazarus simply because there is no way to > protect our source code when provided to a client for them to host on their > own servers. This is a big weakness of PHP in general - sure there are > obfuscation solutions out there, but I'm yet to find anything that I would be > 100% happy with that my source is protected entirely. Plus the performance > degredation for PHP apps (if PHP wasn't slow enough in its default > installation) affects my client's productivity. Use pascal then. You just need to learn JS UI framework, my advice: ExtJS or Qooxdoo, for a while, perhaps about 1-2 weeks. Combine it with pascal on the server side. It would save you lots of time and work, especially since you already got the desktop version running well. > I think there is a really good place for BOTH FPC/Lazarus/Delphi web apps AND > PHP apps. I don't see them as mutually exclusive here. Many of our clients > want to tweak the web pages that we serve and by using tools like Smarty, > etc. in PHP I can give them access to the app and let them loose on their own > sites without too much fear of disaster. Of course, never say never I've made several web apps using pascal. Never need to use PHP. :) -Bee- -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] The name is "Free Pascal" and NOT "FreePascal"
I have read many of the discussions about the new website design and content, and saw "trial" screenshots etc. VERY OFTEN the name "Free Pascal" in incorrectly spelt. Does it really matter? I don't think it's important whether people use "free pascal" or "freepascal" as long as it means FPC. Personally, I prefer "freepascal". Because when you said "free pascal", it doesn't automatically refer to FPC. There are some other "free pascal" out there i.e. GNU Pascal, Turbo Pascal, etc. But when you said "freepascal", people who know FPC will automatically understand that it's FPC, and people who don't know FPC will ask "what is it?" instead of "which one?". The most matter currently is how we gonna build the content for Lazarus website as it's the most popular IDE for FreePascal. ;) -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Part II of Reconstructing Lazarus Website 2: the content
This will be very hard to get. After every release I ask other developers of what they plan and I get no much info. For example for 0.9.30 we have only the next items: http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Lazarus_0.9.30_todo and nobody guaranty that any item will be really implemented for 0.9.30 Website isn't made of a rock stone. If the contents have to change for some reasons, then be it. There are other things that also need to be considered, let's think about them as well. Any proposal for other contents? TIA. -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
[Lazarus] Part II of Reconstructing Lazarus Website 2: the content
Hi all, While the discussion about the page layout is still hot, let's discuss the true problem of all: THE REAL CONTENT! :) As you may already know, my proposal already have a content structure as shown in the footer bar. Now, I ask for your help to fill the content for them. First, let me describe what the content it should have, as in my thought. - Overview: summary with brief description of all contents, from Learn to Download. - F.A.Q: list of commonly asked questions, especially from new comers. - Learn: summary with enough description of how to use Lazarus for the first time, from where to get the installer, how to install it, open a sample project, run and debug it, until deploy the executable. - Features: list of key features and advantages using Lazarus as a development tool. - Component (or Libraries in FreePascal section): list of available components (LCL) that can be used in Lazarus, including from third parties (only the very useful ones). - Documentations: list of official release documentation e.g. release notes, installation guide, user manual, etc. that can be downloaded (pdf?) or viewed online (wiki? html?). - Roadmap: list of plan for the next release(s). - Download: list of download links for binary installer, devel snapshots, mirrors, etc. Remember that FPC and Lazarus each has its own section for the above pages. Let's get them straight and complete, before we discuss the other sections. Please elaborate your ideas and proposal. Thank you. -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Reconstructing Lazarus Website 2: the content
On Feb 4, 2010, at 11:15 PM, Klenongan wrote: Well that's interesting, you don't know what Lazarus because you do not want to read the text, which right next to a big picture. A text below the name 'Lazarus' made bigger than the rest of the page, well placed to be seen first, not only that I took it straight from the Lazarus' "About Lazarus" dialog box. Thank you for your critics, but I'm lost at words. I get what Joost meant and I also understand what you're trying to achieve by your design. We want the text on the main page to be as consice as possible and easy to remember, so it would grab the focus of the visitors and give them a quick impression of the website. Some kind of marketting buzz words. Further text for the detail explanation can be put on the deeper pages. the text would mean more icons, visual cue, which is the luxury we don't have because I assume there is no budget to order customized icons from a professional artist; other than that then we're stuck with the overused Tango icons. If you follow this whole thread from the beginning, you should know that I'm working on this with the help of my web designer colleague. I hope he would be able to make the required images, icons, etc. for the new website. As for proposals, of course it would be better to leave Tutorials to Wiki, much suited for the purpose. As for screenshot page, hmm.. I might add that one, thank you. Good. Keep improving your proposal and ideas. Please keep in mind, it's not about your proposal versus mine, we're not doing web design contest here. We want to give FPC and Lazarus a better website so it would attract new comers, more visitors, and finally more contributors for the project. I don't mind if all people here don't like my proposal as long as the choosen proposal would be able to achieve the goal. Let's work together on this. -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Reconstructing Lazarus Website 2: the content
I don't like the gradient fill blue (old fashioned) and even less the idea of rotating banners in that position (annoying) Please note that it's a work in progress, nothing is final. Please read my other emails regarding this. -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Reconstructing Lazarus Website 2: the content
I took minimalist approach because most new visitors will be
overwhelmed by things they have to read just to download the damned
thing. There are many reason why open source projects nowadays put a
big button on their front page just so anyone who visit the page for
the first time (either by word of mouth, googling, etc) can get
straight to it and try it the `product` right away.
Agree. I like your minimalist approach. I even tried to achieve it by
the design I proposed. But, the "minimalist" term is very much
relative. In my thought, minimalist in the context of FPC/Lazarus
website means less words, but not less informations. Yes, in the
design I'd proposed there are too many texts, it's not very good. But,
actually I didn't mean to be like that exactly. I want the content to
be less words and more icons (as long as they're not annoying). Also
take a look at the buttons on the header banner, the Download button
is there so visitors could get it and try it right away. Please be
patient until I finish visualizing my ideas. Off course, you or every
one may agree and disagree, it's just a proposal. The people,
especially the core developers, should decide which proposal will be
approved.
What I meant wasn't being verbose or not, what I mean is to straight
to the point, sure Wordpress is popular but so does Google. Since its
early days Google took the minimalist approach to display just what it
the visitor would expect from a search engine, that is a place where
they can query the damned thing to get results, not some place where
the can read the latest gossip about Jennifer Anniston or fun facts
about gardening.
We can't compare FPC/Lazarus with Google.com. We have a totally
different product. What can we expect from a search engine UI, but
simply an input box and a search button? If you really want to compare
it with Google's product, then compare it with Google Code, instead of
Google search. Take a look at Google Code website, you should know
that it's not as minimalist as Google search.
The download link, the three boxes ('What is it', 'Downloads',
'Developers'), and search form are within the "focus rectangle" of the
screen, a term in GUI study about user focus and flow. I put it there
in a concise manner but followed by a link so anyone, presumably the
ones who comfortable with Lazarus, or people who want to know more,
can follow it and get more information.
We have the same goal but with different approach. The focus rectangle
in my proposal is the header banner. My idea is to put sell points of
FPC/Lazarus in one easy to spot place. That's why I will make it as
animated header so I could place more things in one place.
The thing is, dumping
everything on the front page is not, IMHO, a good thing as it, as I
said earlier, overwhelmed the visitor both regular or first timer. I
think this kind of approach is refreshing and actually works because I
cant remember when the last time I have to read so many thing just to
get what I want.
The "everything on the front page" in my design is the footer bar. And
the footer bar position, as the name imply, is on the bottom side of
the page, using small fonts. So, it doesn't show right up front the
nose of the visitors. You need to scroll down to see it. I don't think
such approach would overwhelm visitors. CMIIW.
As for 'Forum Postings' I took it from Lazarus front page. Maybe it
should be renamed to 'Recent Threads' or something similar, but I
think it is a positive approach as I didn't put the entire thread but
just the original poster and the title so it wont tax much space but
at the same time encourage experienced Lazarus developers to help
and/or take a look at the forum to answer any questions they found
interesting.
I also elaborate this need on my proposal. It's the dynamic content on
the right pane of the subpages which could display many valuable
information snapshots (recent forum post, recent svn commit, recent
submitted code, screenshot, etc) randomly.
--
-Bee-
...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing
...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com
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Re: [Lazarus] Reconstructing Lazarus Website 2: the content
On Feb 3, 2010, at 8:16 PM, Klenongan wrote: And here's mine, with more 'elegant' touch to it. I use large fonts and white overall to make a neutral appearance --as I don't know Lazarus' "color"--. Yes, it look more elegant. It's a nice design, I must say. The page uses less text as possible on the front page, inspired by Mercurial, VLC, Wordpress website so that new visitors wont be overwhelmed by it. It depends on the target audience. For visitors who already know how to get informations from the website, my design indeed look a bit overwhelmed as I put almost *everything* important on the first page. But for visitors who come for the first time, the lack of information would make them less interested because they're pushed to digg around the site to get the information they need. I made a compromise by putting the important links on the footer bar so they don't scare nor bore regular visitors up front, but new visitors would find those informations only a scroll-down away. This is also good for the search engine scrawler. We can't compare FPC/Lazarus with some thing that already very popular. It's a different case. Wordpress doesn't need to be too verbose because virtually anybody on the internet know Wordpress, at least ever heard of it once in a while. And their community is a lot bigger than ours. The image at the front page taken from a National Geography wallpaper featuring Cheetah. I cant find any quality image featuring a Cheetah, so I use that one. It might be copyright encumbered but feel free to use a substitute like screenshot of Lazarus in action, uncopyrighted Cheetah image, etc. I suggest we use our own images. I already asked help from someone on the other thread to help us on this. The texts are obviously mockup, I just want to show the design and to engage others in discussion to this design. Any feedback would be appreciated. Understood. Mine as well. My 2 mockups are intended to show the *layout* and content *structure* of the website that I proposed. They're not yet touched by any art works (images, colors, fonts, etc). They're just the skeleton of the design. I'm not yet discussing about the *real* content of it (words, sentences, etc), whether in the main page or in the deeper pages. The things I want to emphasize on my proposal are uniqueness (so we're not accused as being plagiat anymore) and newcomers friendly (to guide them on their first venture with FPC/Lazarus). The main goal is FPC/ Lazarus gets adequate popularity and respect from other developers, both who comes from other pascal-variant languages (delphi, etc) and other languages (java, c, etc). -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Reconstructing Lazarus Website 4: the dev tool
1. Wiki, it's already available. Maybe we should reconstructure the content so they could be better categorized. 2. Bug tracker, it's already available using Mantis. Maybe we should fix the appearance so its theme could fit the new design. 3. Source code browser, it's already available using SVN and ViewVC. Maybe we should also fix the appearance. 4. Contributed code repo, it's already available through Contributed Units on FPC site. I think we should build a new one for this using fpWeb. 5. Code bounty manager, it's not available, only a page on Wiki. I think we should build a new app for this for more accountable participants. This app could become a way to boost FPC and Lazarus development. 6. Online forum, it's already available using SMF. I think we should build a new one for this using fpWeb in the future. 7. Website CMS, it's not available. But we can use available CMS engine i.e. Wordpress, Drupal, or Joomla. One more thing: 8. Account integrator. Since we have many applications for the website i.e. wiki, forum, mantis, svn, etc. I think we should make one app to synchronized a single account across those apps. So, the user would only remember 1 account and use it for all the apps provided. But, this requires pretty much work (I had made one), we can leave it at the lowest priority. Another more thing: 9. Dynamic content aggregator. As my proposal of layout and content structure of the new web site, we need a little app that aggregates recent content from various sources i.e. forum post, svn commit, screenshot, etc. and randomly embeds some of them into a page. Would someone help us here writing the required apps above? Please, for the better website of FPC and Lazarus. TIA. -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Reconstructing Lazarus Website 2: the content
However, if we are making a concerted effort to present a more 'professional' web image, perhaps it is time to impose a more consistent style on the more public and static pages, and agree on a few rules of style and spelling (British or American English? IDE or I.D.E.? and suchlike). What do people think? I would be happy to offer some time to recast or rewrite material if that were deemed helpful. Thank you. Yes, this whole proposal is still a draft and I know there are so many spell and gramatical errors in it. Well, my English isn't pretty good, obviously. :) Once we agree with this layout proposal, we will work on the real content of *each* page. That time, your help will be very important. -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Reconstructing Lazarus Website 2: the content
On Feb 3, 2010, at 4:28 PM, Joost van der Sluis wrote: Nice. Thanks. I think that this part should be the same throughout the whole site. No, the header will be changed according to what content being displayed on the page. If it's FPC specific, then the header will show FPC banner. If it's Lazarus specific, then the header will show Lazarus banner. If it's related to both, there will a banner that shows FPC and Lazarus combined. It tells people on which site they are, and on this site we shoudn't stress the difference between FreePascal and Lazarus too much. So I would let it show 'Lazarus - ' just as on the home page. As I said in previous email, the large header on the main portal site will be an animated banner that will highlight some key features of both FPC and Lazarus. The changing animated header will also help for not making the page looks boring and dull. The breathcrumb is fine, but I still don't know where I am, because there is no 'freepascal' section anywhere. Shoudn't it be 'compiler'? ie: Please use the same names in the menus, the sitemap below and the breathcrumbs. Yes, I agree with you. I should be consistent with the naming, whether "compiler" or "FreePascal" and "IDE" or "Lazarus". I will fix it later. And on the right, it shows 'in _this_ section'. Which section is that? Maybe better to make it something like 'Other topic in the compiler section'? Section is page group according to the footer bar. I like the svn-line. Especially when you mention the latest release date, people could think that nothing happens on the project since then. Showing the latest svn-commit (which is rarely older then 24 hours) is then a good idea. Yes, that's the main idea of the right pane. It should show the dynamic update of the projects. -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Reconstructing Lazarus Website 2: the content
The content pages, will have a navigation bar below the shrinked header. The shrinked header will be static which will show the appropriate slide in regard with the content being displayed. Here's my proposal for content page layout: http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/676/lazwebnewsubpage030210.png The content area, between the link bar (toppest) and large footer bar, contains 2 section: - static content on the left pane with static header on the top. - dynamic content on the right pane with latest release info and download at the toppest, content navigation, and snapshot of some dynamic contents. The snapshot contents can be some of the following sources: - latest news update - random user testimonial - latest svn commit - recent forum topic - hottest forum topic - recent submitted contributed code - random screenshot - recent change of wiki - recent post of dev blog ... etc... My purpose of using this approach is to combine fixed content (which would be very rarely changed) with changing/dynamic content (which would change frequently) in order not to bore regular visitors. The dynamic content might surprise some visitors about something they never knew/heard before. This dynamic snapshot content, obviously, needs help from a simple application what would select and embed them on the pages. Please share your idea and opinions. -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Reconstructing Lazarus Website 4: the dev tool
On Feb 2, 2010, at 7:05 PM, Paul Ishenin wrote: Maybe bounty field can be added to the bug-tracker. So if a reporter want to pay some money for the issue he/she can fill that field? Anyway, bounties does not differ from regular issues - just reporter want to pay to speedup the solution. Good idea. But, IMO, it should be put upfront instead of hidden beneath the mantis system. It will ease people who want to donate to the development, not just for technical things, but for other non technical things as well e.g. creating a tutorial, writing an article, making a demo app, etc. Maybe we could make a small interface app for mantis only for this purpose. What do you think? -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Reconstructing Lazarus Website 3: the merger
On Feb 2, 2010, at 6:37 PM, Marco van de Voort wrote: I'd keep it FPC and Lazarus only. More choice only confuses, and the deep integration with the other two projects is also not there. I agree, only FPC and Lazarus that need to be merged. The other should have its own website, but we provide links to it on FPC/Lazarus portal, within the Project Gallery page. -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Reconstructing Lazarus Website 4: the dev tool
On Feb 2, 2010, at 6:38 PM, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: One more thing: 8. Account integrator. Since we have many applications for the website i.e. wiki, forum, mantis, svn, etc. I think we should make one app to synchronized a single account across those apps. So, the user would only remember 1 account and use it for all the apps provided. But, this requires pretty much work (I had made one), we can leave it at the lowest priority. The FPC forum, contributed units and Mantis are already integrated like this. This really is not so much work. Perhaps we use different approach and requirements. I once made an SSO apps which able to integrate user management across many apps, including third party apps. Not only user management, but also apps management, ACL, scheduling, network access, etc. all-in-one centralized engine. It's like cpanel to control accounts, apps, and network. Once the user logon in an app, then s/he goes to another app, the app will automatically recognize him/her and his/her previlege, no need to relogin on each apps. Maybe it's too much for our need. Ooops, it's getting OOT. :D -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Reconstructing Lazarus Website 4: the dev tool
1. Wiki, it's already available. Maybe we should reconstructure the content so they could be better categorized. 2. Bug tracker, it's already available using Mantis. Maybe we should fix the appearance so its theme could fit the new design. 3. Source code browser, it's already available using SVN and ViewVC. Maybe we should also fix the appearance. 4. Contributed code repo, it's already available through Contributed Units on FPC site. I think we should build a new one for this using fpWeb. 5. Code bounty manager, it's not available, only a page on Wiki. I think we should build a new app for this for more accountable participants. This app could become a way to boost FPC and Lazarus development. 6. Online forum, it's already available using SMF. I think we should build a new one for this using fpWeb in the future. 7. Website CMS, it's not available. But we can use available CMS engine i.e. Wordpress, Drupal, or Joomla. One more thing: 8. Account integrator. Since we have many applications for the website i.e. wiki, forum, mantis, svn, etc. I think we should make one app to synchronized a single account across those apps. So, the user would only remember 1 account and use it for all the apps provided. But, this requires pretty much work (I had made one), we can leave it at the lowest priority. -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Reconstructing Lazarus Website 2: the content
On Feb 2, 2010, at 6:13 PM, Juha Manninen wrote: Please don't make the animations very heavy for CPU. There are many pages with animated ads that hog 70% of my CPU and I don't want to keep them open for long. It'd be a simple JS animation, not flash and nothing fancy. Another wish: I still would like a "Getting Started" or "Quick Start" link. That would be next step after installing Lazarus. This will be provided through the Learn section. It should provide enough information from how to get the installer, install it, and run the given "Hello World" example. It would guide through a "Hello World" app in clear steps: 1. Open Lazarus. 2. Drag a button to the form. 3. Drag a label to the form. 4. Double click the button. 5. Type: Label1.Caption := 'Hello World'; 6. Run the program. It'll be provided through Tutorial section. We already even have the video tutorial from other party. We only need to ask their permission to embed it in our website. What you say? The Learn and Tutorial section content should be more than enough for the new comers. -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Reconstructing Lazarus Website 4: the dev tool
On Feb 2, 2010, at 6:05 PM, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: 4. Contributed code repo, it's already available through Contributed Units on FPC site. I think we should build a new one for this using fpWeb. I was planning to do so. I will also rewrite the testsuite tool. Great news. This is a hidden treasure, IMO. If we could provide a good app for this, I believe FPC/Lazarus will become more popular. 5. Code bounty manager, it's not available, only a page on Wiki. I think we should build a new app for this for more accountable participants. This app could become a way to boost FPC and Lazarus development. Sounds interesting :-) I've been thinking about this since the beginning of the reconstruction idea. We really need this app. Just like Contributed Code app, this could also makes FPC/Lazarus more popular. 6. Online forum, it's already available using SMF. I think we should build a new one for this using fpWeb in the future. In the future: yes. +1 7. Website CMS, it's not available. But we can use available CMS engine i.e. Wordpress, Drupal, or Joomla. My personal preference - pending an implementation in FPC ;) - is WordPress. My experience with the other two was not so positive. +1 If the websites are ever to be merged, the main site will be on www.freepascal.org, so please use Firebird instead of mysql. AFAIK, Wordpress is already able to work with Firebird. -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Reconstructing Lazarus Website 3: the merger
For now I agree. But later we can create products menu with: Free Pascal, Lazarus, MseIDE & MseGUI , FpGUI. After all some FPC developers are working on lazarus and some lazarus developers are working on fpc. Contradictly, I prefer both are merged for now. It'll be easier to create and maintain. FPC and Lazarus combination is very well-known as Delphi alternative. Only very few people, AFAIK, that really using FPC's text IDE. Separating FPC and Lazarus would make new comers confuse. Even if they're someday will be separated in the future, the main portal still should be merged. And I agree that someday we'll need to have a "products" menu to display derivatives work on FPC/ Lazarus. -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Reconstructing Lazarus Website 4: the dev tool
If you mean in FPC, count me in :) From the content structure that I proposed on the other thread, we need some applications to accompany the web site. 1. Wiki, it's already available. Maybe we should reconstructure the content so they could be better categorized. 2. Bug tracker, it's already available using Mantis. Maybe we should fix the appearance so its theme could fit the new design. 3. Source code browser, it's already available using SVN and ViewVC. Maybe we should also fix the appearance. 4. Contributed code repo, it's already available through Contributed Units on FPC site. I think we should build a new one for this using fpWeb. 5. Code bounty manager, it's not available, only a page on Wiki. I think we should build a new app for this for more accountable participants. This app could become a way to boost FPC and Lazarus development. 6. Online forum, it's already available using SMF. I think we should build a new one for this using fpWeb in the future. 7. Website CMS, it's not available. But we can use available CMS engine i.e. Wordpress, Drupal, or Joomla. The 6 and 7 aren't high priority, they could be optional for now. But, ideally, to show off the power of FPC on web development, we should build one by ourselves. -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Reconstructing Lazarus Website 3: the merger
Seems it was discussed before already. Yes, at least FPC community forum and lazarus forums can be merged (before this already happened with the wiki and the bug tracker). So, I may safely assume that the website of FPC and Lazarus will be merged on this work. Not? -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Reconstructing Lazarus Website 1: the appearance
It would be better a custom design... Could we talk to the Rik - http://silvioclecio.blogspot.com/2009/12/rik-lee-inkscape-com-arte.html Could you help me provide the images, icon, etc for the new web site? My designer is doing this in his spare time, I can't push him too much because he also got some works to do. More people help me on this website reconstructing work, it'll be better (and faster as well). The focus of mine is more on the layout and content structure, because I have no skill on web design and graphic art. TIA. -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Reconstructing Lazarus Website 2: the content
Instead or in addition to the "text feature highlights" some icons or screenshots? So users can visually recognize the most important features? Yes, that's the plan. My designer needs some time to design the required images and icons. Once it's done, I will post it on the appearance thread. This thread is for the content discussion. -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Reconstructing Lazarus Website 2: the content
Ok, and how a user can 'see' where he is? And what we are looking at now is the first level navigation. What about the second and third? Good question. I haven't finish the deeper pages layout proposal. The content pages, will have a navigation bar below the shrinked header. The shrinked header will be static which will show the appropriate slide in regard with the content being displayed. For example, on FPC's Features page, the header will show the miniatur of FPC slide. I will show you my proposal tomorrow. Now, I need to back to my real job. -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Reconstructing Lazarus Website 2: the content
The big header section isn't static. It will be slide-like presentation that will highlight key features of both FPC and Lazarus. One more thing. The header section is available on the front page only. It wouldn't be available on the other deeper pages. The top link section and footer sitemap section would be available on *all* pages. So, the visitor won't get lost by the time they're going deeper into the content. -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Reconstructing Lazarus Website 2: the content
A design like this can even be served using current smf/tp site (till our own pascalbased is ready) Well, actually I'm thinking about Wordpress. I'm trying to collaborate both ideas, using available mostly php-based CMS or build custom CMS based on fpWeb. Also the contents can be obtained from current available resources. So keep on going thinking on design and contents Any ideas of yours? TIA. -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Reconstructing Lazarus Website 2: the content
I really like the page design! Thanks. I have a suggestion for the wording at the top of the page - see it below. You will see it is a bit more explanatory, perhaps more suitable for students. It also omits 'native', and I suggest this can be picked up in your 'cross-platform' stuff below. (Maybe also saying that native provides faster... etc Thanks for the suggestion. The big header section isn't static. It will be slide-like presentation that will highlight key features of both FPC and Lazarus. The slide will be designed by my designer. Some features highlight in my thought are: - native (more to Lazarus) - cross platform (more to FPC) - open source and license (both) - library (FCL and LCL) Any more *importants* keys feature of FPC and Lazarus that you think need to be on the header slide? TIA. -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Reconstructing Lazarus Website 2: the content
Perhaps i'm the only one missing a link to the Wiki pages? It's available on the footer section. It's my understanding that most of the current content for developers is placed on the wiki. So perhaps such a link should be placed in the top bar along with the downloads and support. The top link section should contains anything that would be questioned on the first time visit. That's I didn't put wiki on it. Those links are there for some reasons: - Home (should I need to explain this?) :D - News (how is the recent progress of this thing?) - Overview (what is this thing all about?) - F.A.Q (ok, now I know what it is, could you tell me more?) - Docs (ok, where's the detail of them?) the wiki link can also be put on the front/main page of Docs. - Support (where would i get help if i face some problems?) - Download (where should i get this thing?) - About (who's behind this thing?) I place the wiki link on Contribution section, not on Docs section, because I want to emphasize the "contribution" rather than the "document". ;) -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Reconstructing Lazarus Website 2: the content
For example, when you click on 'support(s)' what kind of page do you see? Of is if a menu which shows when you hover your mouse above it, so that 'Mailing lists','online forum', 'IRC' etc appears? My approach is to be less JS as possible, more static HTML/CSS. It'll be easier to maintain. So, my approach is brief description static page instead of menus. For example, clicking the Support link would go to Support description page what contains explanation about where people would get support and the link to each. Example: COMMUNITY SUPPORT Here you may get support from our community in various form. Please select one you might think more suitable to you: - Mailing List - subscription instruction - online archive - etc - Online forum - get an account - go to the forum - etc - IRC channel - ... - ... And the overview, that is a page which explains what fpc/lazarus is wich some screenshots, or something? Yes, Overview section is about summary of all the contents from definition to download, but in very brief text. -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Reconstructing Lazarus Website 2: the content
Personally, I like the other color scheme more than this one. But, I would rather go with color scheme which is more in spirit of whole project. (btw, how about having blue behind Lazarus less "intense" - maybe more like those at the top and bottom?) BTW, my post is about the content structure as shown on the footer section. It's not about the color scheme, design, etc. My designer hasn't yet done anything about the design. He's still collecting the idea of the website from me. That's why I post my email in this thread, it's about the content. As of contents and layout, I like it - it's simple, but full of useful information. Is there anything still missing from there? -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Reconstructing Lazarus Website 2: the content
Looks good. Maybe we can add a tagline to the brownish header. 'Code once, compile everywhere' could be it maybe. It has to tell what Lazarus/fpc is as less as words possible. Yes, as I asked previously, I need help about the wording. Somebody who has a bit knowledge about marketting may propose the sentences for the header, first page content, etc. BTW, which one do you like? the brown one or the blue one? :) -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Reconstructing Lazarus Website 2: the content
Something like this could easily apply to Lazarus too, and it is relatively little effort to setup. Also designing the website so that in doesn't use serverside includes etc makes it easier for users to checkout the website from the repository and simply use a web browser to view the content locally (no webserver installation required) and make appropriate changes and review before submitting a website patch. That sounds like a good idea. But before we're talking about the application, let's talk about the *real* contents first. As you might already saw at my proposal given at the previous email, I propose lots of new contents on the new web site, see the footer sections. Perhaps the required contents are already available, but I believe they are separated all over the docs, wiki, forum, etc. We need to gather them and display them in neat structured shape so everybody comes to the website could find whatever they need in no time. So, as I asked previously, who's gonna collect and structure all those contents? ;) -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Reconstructing Lazarus Website 2: the content
Take a look at http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/5716/lazwebnew020210.png Still I think that we must use blue colors. IDE uses blue logo, blue icons. Everywhere the blue color dominates. Web site can't be brown but everything else blue. And I think that we are not able to change logo and all icons to brown in a reasonable time. Here's the blue one: http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/3214/lazwebnew020210blue.png Everything else looks good for me. Thanks. Let's hear what other would say. -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Reconstructing Lazarus Website 2: the content
I've made a very basic design, just to show off my page layout and content structure proposal. It's not yet about the true design (color, theme, etc) and the accessories (images, icons, etc). Take a look at http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/5716/lazwebnew020210.png On this design, at the toppest is a link bar which contains primary content links, search box, and site language selection. Below it, it's an animated large header which will show some highlight features of FPC/Lazarus in rotation. Below it, left pane is the primary show off contents with full of buzz words. On the right pane is the news snapshot. Below it, it's a large footer which will show *all* available contents of the site. It could be some kind of sitemap as well. Below it, it's a tiny footer which contains some statistic and copyrighted stuffs. Please share your opinions. Thanks. -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Reconstructing Lazarus Website 1: the appearance
When switching to brown it conflicts with the forum. Yes, but we could ignore it for now because we couldn't fix all the things at once. Then there is again a site vs. forum. The main problem is there's no website for lazarus, as some people thought. Current lazarus website is the forum. while we wanted to keep things closer integrated. (otoh, when we finally can switch to smf2 then there is no prob) Yes, I agree with the integration idea, all in one place i.e. the website (product portal), forum, svn browser, documentation, wiki, mantis, contribution section, lazarus ccr, etc. But we can only work on them one in a time. My current focus is the product portal of Lazarus and FPC. Unless, there's someone else would like to collaborate with me to work on the other parts. -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Reconstructing Lazarus Website 1: the appearance
http://images.google.com/images?q=cheetah I'm sorry, I searched with wrong query. Trying http://images.google.com/images?q=cheetah+cartoon resulted more cartoonish images. But, it looks that cheetah had been used by various products. :( -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Lazarus Video Tutorials
I just found this video tutorials series: http://video.tiscali.it/canali/truveo/601984616.html . That's very good and quite complete, especially for the language tutorials. Can we contact the author and ask for his permission to be put on our (new) website? -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Reconstructing Lazarus Website 1: the appearance
Lazarus itself and lazarus website is using blue color scheme at the moment. But I don't think that color schemes of Lazarus IDE and Lazarus web site must be the same. Yes, that's what I tried at the first attempt: blue scheme, since it's also my favourite color. :D But, it doesn't look good, the color combination seems awkward if combined with cheetah's color. My designer also suggest if we want the cheetah to be more appeal, we better use brown scheme. If not (using blue or other color scheme), then we shouldn't show the cheetah images at all. Or, we could change the cheetah's color to blue. Might absurd, but it'll looks a bit funny though. :D -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Reconstructing Lazarus Website 1: the appearance
Those consideration would be reflected on the color theme, site layout, wording, etc. Now, I'm seriously considering to use brownish color theme as cheetah's color. So the design would mostly in some favors of brown and combined with black and white. I also want the color scheme to be soft since it would be easy the eyes. What do you think? -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Reconstructing Lazarus Website 2: the content
It does not need to be part of a CMS - can just be static pages, linking to documentation, wiki. Yes, that's what I'm gonna do first. Just a good appearance with a collection of bunches of links and some appropriate semi-marketting words campaign. Once it's settled, the CMS could utilize the design. -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Reconstructing Lazarus Website 1: the appearance
http://images.google.com/images?q=cheetah Of course, that would be my first destination. :P But what I need here is more iconic, or cartoonish, not real pictures. It's pretty hard to find like those in google. I could ask my designer to draw one, but it'd take some amount of time. :) -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Reconstructing Lazarus Website 1: the appearance
Can anybody help me provide pictures and icons about cheetah? Or can anybody point me to good resources of it? I need it for the new Lazarus website design. TIA. I also need some slogans or buzz words/sentences for the design. My yunior web designer could help with the design and layout, but he doesn't know how to build the wording. He also never heard or use FPC/ Lazarus since -obviously- he's not a programmer. :D Please, give me you ideas. TIA. -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Reconstructing Lazarus Website 1: the appearance
- ... anything else? ... Can anybody help me provide pictures and icons about cheetah? Or can anybody point me to good resources of it? I need it for the new Lazarus website design. TIA. -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Reconstructing Lazarus Website 4: the dev tool
I think that we should not reinvent the wheel again and use already existing tools. Before we thought about the portal and choosed drupal as a possible cms for it. Although Joomla is a good candidate too. Good reason, for practical reason. If we're going to use external tool, as we don't need to reinvent the wheel so to say, I personally prefer WordPress engine. It less complex and easier to use and to maintain. But, that's me. :) If you want fpWeb very much you can start portal development in paralel. We can have fpWeb solution using drupal database. When it is ready we will switch to it without the need of database converting, etc. For development reason, I still prefer fpWeb. Yes, we would reinvent the wheel, if we say in CMS world as there are many ready-to-use CMS out there, though mostly build using PHP (and mysql). But, in pascal world, it maybe the first CMS that's build using pascal. Besides, it could be a best example and showcase for FPC/Lazarus. And for the database, personally, I much prefer Firebird, for many reasons. But, again, that's me. -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] [Fwd: Re: Is Lazarus a Delphi plagiat?]
I'm not trying to be rude or anything, I am simple pointing out the obvious faults of the current "first port of call" website new users get when they want to know about the Lazarus project. Why make it so difficult for new users? @all: Enough talking and let's do the real work. FPC/Lazarus is an open source community based activity, so why not collaborate ourselves and work together to build the better website for FPC/Lazarus. Follow my emails on the other threads, please. Thanks. -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Reconstructing Lazarus Website 3: the merger
The last thing is: should we merge FPC and Lazarus? If so, why? If not, what's the reason? I prefer that both are merged, but with separated content. This would make the website maintenance easier and focus. Let's hear what others would say. :) -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] Reconstructing Lazarus Website 4: the dev tool
At the very least, this point has my vote :-) I'll contribute my yunior designer work on this effort. I'll confirm this by Monday. I'll personally supervise his work. He's able to produce the HTML, CSS, and required JS for the design. So, it's only the front-end part. Would you do the back-end part, Michael? ;) -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
[Lazarus] Reconstructing Lazarus Website 4: the dev tool
Hi all, One more thing, but this is optional, we should give the decision to the one who are gonna do the real work: what tool are we going to use to serve the backend? PHP? Wordpress? Joomla? fpWeb? Honestly, I expect it would be build using fpWeb. Because we could prove by itself that FPC/Lazarus is able provide all-in-one cross platform development tool, including web development. What do you think? -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
[Lazarus] Reconstructing Lazarus Website 3: the merger
Hi all, The last thing is: should we merge FPC and Lazarus? If so, why? If not, what's the reason? This is important, IMO. Most people know Lazarus is the "official" FPC IDE. Also because it would also effect on the whole website design. If they're separated, should we also reconstruct the FPC site? If they're merged, how we're gonna structure the content? -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
[Lazarus] Reconstructing Lazarus Website 2: the content
Hi all, Now, let's talk about the content and its structure. From the first email, I have shared some references, maybe we could go from there. Some things need to be considered are: - what contents we're gonna provide to the visitors? - which contents need to be displayed on the main page? - is the content source already available? - who's gonna collect and resume the content from various sources (wiki, docs, forum thread, etc)? - ... anything else? ... Please share your ideas and opinions, then get settle on one, and let's do the work. -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
[Lazarus] Reconstructing Lazarus Website 1: the appearance
Hi all, Continuing our discussion on the other thread, let's get some real action. From this email, I will suggest and collecting some ideas about what we're gonna do with Lazarus web site (and also FPC?). If we settle with the whole things, we could ask some volunteers to do some works over the agreed ideas. I can manage my yunior web designer to help the work, but first I need we agree on how we're gonna reconstruct the whole site. I hope other would do the same so we could collaborate on this work. This is the first thing: appearance and layout. I've collected some ideas from other development tool websites, maybe they could become our references. But that's all, just references, because I believe we want Lazarus (and FPC?) website to be unique and distinguishable from the others. http://gcc.gnu.org/ http://rubyonrails.org/ http://haxe.org/ http://www.python.org/ http://www.realsoftware.com/realbasic/ http://www.embarcadero.com/products/delphi http://www.perl.org/ http://www.microsoft.com/exPress/ http://www.wxwidgets.org/ http://java.sun.com/ http://www.monkeystudio.org/ http://developer.apple.com/tools/xcode/ http://www.eclipse.org/ http://netbeans.org/ http://projects.gnome.org/anjuta/index.shtml Any others more? Honestly, comparing Lazarus website with the others above, I know we need to make our Lazarus website better and more appeal to the visitors. Some things need to be considered are: - who is our audience main target? students? professionals? hobbiests? new comers? - how we gonna appear Lazarus to the audience? cool? serious? funky? funny? - ... anything else? ... Those consideration would be reflected on the color theme, site layout, wording, etc. So we should really consider them seriously as those will be impressed on the audience perception. Please share your ideas and opinions, then get settle on one, and let's do the work. -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] [Fwd: Re: Is Lazarus a Delphi plagiat?]
IMO a good add-on to the "Lazarus is invisible?" thread. While I agree with the points that Lazarus need better documentations, I think those people in that forum are spoil programmers. I also don't understand why they are so defensive against Lazarus. I remember the first time I found Lazarus, v.0.9.16 if I remember it correctly, I only need a couple of hours to make it working on my Linux system (OpenSuse). Yes, it required lots of googling and digging the wiki/forum/etc, but the solutions are available though scattered all over the places. Maybe Delphi had spoil them too much and kill their sense of learning and research. No wonder they don't like Linux as well. -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] FCL-Web and new WebDesign packages
My boss was actually very surprised that there are no standards in web development. It is not what he was told by other people :-) Standards does exist. It's the problem of the implementator, especially the browser makers, who each thinks a smart a** and ignore those standards. Gee wiz, where has he been for the last 10 years? :-) Well, actually this doesn't happen only on web development, it happens almost on all things, especially in the software world. Is there any standard upon window managers (gtk1, gtk2, qt, etc)? Isn't it the main reason why you wrote fpGUI in the first place? Is SQL standard completely obeyed by all database engines? Even directory stuctures are different among Linux distros! I could go on with more examples, but you should get the idea. I don't think it's fair to bash web development while in fact it also happens on desktop development. I'm just trying to be fair and objective. :) -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] FCL-Web and new WebDesign packages
I think you exaggerate it a bit. * FCL-Web * fpWeb Both are same thing: fcl-web = fpweb * ExtPas * ExtPascal <- not sure if this is the same as previous option Again, both are same thing. * Morfik * Morfik's JST JST is an integrated part or Morfik. I think I got them all, and these are just the ones mentioned in this message thread. I believe I now understand why I try and stay away from web development as far as possible!! :-) I don't understand what's your point. I think it's a good thing to have more options rather than limited options so we could have many alternative solutions. You seemed to think that developing dynamic web applications is hard and complicated, while in fact it's not. It could be as easy as or as hard as developing desktop applications. You (and the world you currently live in) may not need web applications. But, just try to look around, web applications is a very huge business. You might scare people off from web application development using pascal (especially FPC). This isn't good, both for them and for FPC. :) -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] FCL-Web and new WebDesign packages
Don't you get annoyed putting the HTML inside function calls? This is what has put me off from cgi ... I usually have a lot more HTML then code, so I actually would like to have a HTML document where I put some Pascal inside, like PHP. With all my huge amount of HTML inside function calls it get's very poluted and hard to read the HTML =( It's not the problem of pascal nor cgi, it's the problem of your coding style and management. Use templates, MVC or MVP, separate logic from UI, etc. I think you should have known all those things. :) -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] FCL-Web and new WebDesign packages
It's not like Morfik - to write an wrapper, for an existing JS library is a matter of one or two hours - I did it for Google-Maps and JQuery. Have you tried to write a wrapper for ExtJS or any other advanced JS library that provides advanced UI widgets with server side data binding, not just DOM helper and manipulator? The speed benefit in coding you have afterwards, compensates this a lot of times. And you have flash - all the code you write once, you can use for all the platforms - and have type safe communication between all the layers ! Because I don't need flash or other non standard browser plugins/ addons. I like the Morfik approach that keep away from third party browser extensions, just work with the native browser features (HTML, CSS, and JS). Besides, I'm too lazy to learn yet another language while I believe I could write anything in pascal. because Pascal is not as well suited for dynamic languages and environments - I use pascal since 30 years for my every day development and love it - but IMHO for web programming, it is more productive to have a dynamic language - it is the nature of websites. It's a myth! I've been using pascal to write many web applications. I found myself as productive as when I write desktop applications. I even could reuse my legacy pascal code in new web applications. It means I save times for coding and bug hunting. You are welcome - but never say never ;-) Yes, but now I don't see hexa could fit into my requirements. Yes - I know its not well accepted to say in a pascal group, that another language is better suited for this and that - but to be fair - I write on the HaXe group, that pascal is better for this and that as well. It is not about religion - it is about experience and how to get the job done. Exactly! It's not about religion, it's about how to get the job done. I just don't think with my skill and knowledge of hexa would get the job done better and faster compare to if I stick with pascal and the available tools (despite some lacks of them). -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] FCL-Web and new WebDesign packages
Take a look at HaXe (haxe.org) - HaXe is a dynamic but type safe programming language, which is much better suited for Web programming than ExtPascal (in my opinion). I've heard about it and wasn't interested since it doesn't support pascal. :P Since HaXe has many targets (JavaScript, Flash, Neko bytecode, php, and C++) it's almost one language for all. It's useless since it can't work with existing JS library i.e. ExtJS, etc. It's just like Morfik in this regard. I use: - pascal and HaXe/Neko for the server - HaXe for the rest Why should I learn another new language while I could do all those things in pascal? Except for using external existing JS library. That's why I'm very interested with what Michael, Joost and Mattias doing currently. Thank you, but no thanks. :) -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] FCL-Web and new WebDesign packages
For ExtPascal, it was true for every page I wanted to make, so that is far over 5% :( Yes, because ExtPascal is just a wrapper for ExtJS classes. What I meant in the previous email is the existence of a pascal to JS compiler, like Morfik's JST, will do the job. I prefer "compiler" term instead of "converter" because (I hope) it wouldn't just convert pascal code to JS code but also able to do compilation jobs (optimizing, etc). fcl-web exists since a long time. It was never promoted or actively developed, but that will change now. Yes, I heard of fcl-web since I was still using Powtils. Since its features aren't better nor new, I still kept using Powtils. I'll try to make a sample application so everyone can see what can be done with very little work. Please, keep us inform. Thanks. -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] FCL-Web and new WebDesign packages
I finally decided to bite the bullet, and to dump the idea of extpascal and the likes for the moment. All these conversion tools have the same problems: - Always behind the latest versions of the corresponding JS toolkits. - They only do a subset of what the JS toolkits support natively. Yes! It happens to ExtPascal each time ExtJS releases a new version. - For anything reasonably advanced, you need to write JavaScript anyway. It's sad but true. While I believe it can be avoided for any common purposes, but in some advance optimization it just can't be. Just like the way we're using assembler in pascal. But it should be 1-5 percents of all cases. I have the first server-side things ready, namely: the server-side interface to ExtJS's data API. It's a breeze in FPC, and lightning fast. It would be better if the server side interface is plain and independent to any JS framework API. The interface result then could be "translated" to any client side API, or SOAP, or WST, or whatever is required format by the client side framework using some kind of API dictionary or something similar. At a later stage the following will be added: - Write the client in Pascal, but transformed to JS using a code converter. (as Morfik or GWT does) This is my dream. It would be better if the converter is able to provide library binding to any JS framework out there, at least the popular ones i.e. ExtJS, jQueryUI, qooxdoo, etc. So we don't need to code on our own JS UI widgets. This is one of major flaw of Morfik. Though I knew what I want, I have very limited time and skill to develop it by myself while the deadline for the demanded application can't be delayed. That's why I have to satisfy with any ready to use tools available for pascal now, which is ExtPascal. Now come the new one: fcl-web. I've contracted Mattias Gaertner to do the first step for the code converter. Sources will be donated to and released with FPC. I also wrote a JavaScript parser, which will be introduced in FPC's SVN shortly. Many had tried it already i.e. Powtils, ExtPascal, but the development stucks somewhere. I'm looking forward to test it! Thank you for the effort. -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] FCL-Web and new WebDesign packages
That's about it. It will use Qooxdoo-calls for the server-events. You can add more, offcourse... (does Qooxdoo also use some sort of 'readyscript'?) My main reason using ExtPascal and this new fcl-web is I'm too lazy to study JS programming and getting my hand dirty of it. Every JS framework out there, due the nature of JS, has its own OO concept and implementation that also need to be learned. If I really have to study them, I think it might be better and faster if I build the application directly in JS, instead of using ExtPascal or fcl-web which would double my work and slow down my application development. But I don't like it. So, obviously, I can't avoid this JS thingy in order to develop dynamic web application using pascal. It's a bit ironic, don't you think? :D My main motivation in dynamic web application using pascal is I want to show some people that pascal is able to do that and would perform much better than those resource hog scripting languages. -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] FCL-Web and new WebDesign packages
For it to work the fcl-web_joost branch of Freepascal has to be used. (Or copy the files in packages/fcl-web onto your checkout of fpc-trunk) Can it be just merged with current fpc-trunk so we don't need to mess around with our svn copy? It could also be included as part of official fcl-web for the next fpc release. -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] FCL-Web and new WebDesign packages
WebDesign: Adds a new 'form'-designer to Lazarus-trunk. It can be used to build websites. On Win32 there can be a live 'preview' of the website, when Gecko/XULRunner is installed on the system. For it to work the fcl-web_joost branch of Freepascal has to be used. (Or copy the files in packages/fcl-web onto your checkout of fpc-trunk) So, does it now only work on windows? On other platforms, I'm interested to use it on Mac, is it possible to work? The fcl-web_joost branch of fpc also adds some functionality for server side and client side event handlers. It adds the basic abstract methods for that and you can create plugins to handle them properly. The jQuery package adds a plugin for jQuery, but the idea is that the same functionality can also be added for other java-toolkits, like ExtJS. For some of the basic ideas I've looked at ExtPas. Since ExtJS is already done by ExtPascal project, we could try on another toolkit. I propose to use Qooxdoo. I'm interested to do this since I intend to build eyeos-like web os using fcl-web. What should I do to use Qooxdoo with fcl-web? -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] ExtPascal - Any one has an opensource system?
Please, it is very good, but the problem of version is very bad. I can not workaround. It won't work with latest SVN and ExtJS v.3.0. As I told you in my previous email, it was using ExtPascal v.0.9.4 (which is based on ExtJS 2.2.1). Though it may not use the latest technology, but I think it's a good start to learn ExtPascal beside the official samples. -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] ExtPascal - Any one has an opensource system?
Is there any opensource work with it? Link please! Screenshot: http://code.google.com/p/extpascal/wiki/Projects_Using_ExtPascal Source code: http://extpascal.googlegroups.com/web/d3tkjdt_app.zip It's my application. However, it was build using ExtPascal 0.9.4. It might need some minor modification if you're using latest ExtPascal SVN. Not all of its features had completed though, since I published it during development. But many other features had been there already. HTH. -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
Re: [Lazarus] cross platform [Re: Lazarus Goal]
Well the understanding of cross platform is quite varying. The base obviously is that "one source code" can be executed on all of the supported platforms. In my understanding, there are 3 kinds of cross platform implementation: 1. Cross platform is implemented within an virtual environment both the binary and the widgets. The application is run on top of it. The example is Java. 2. Cross platform is implemented in full native ways both in the binary and the widgets. The application is truly native application on each platform. The example is FPC/Lazarus. 3. Cross platform is implemented natively on the binary but not on the widgets. The application execute natively without any virtual environment but it losses its native look-and-feel (or at best, emulated). The example is fpGUI, mseGUI, Qt, etc. Since FPC/Lazarus in on the second type of implementation, we (both the developers and users) should be aware (and understood) of consequences of the approach. Expecting FPC/Lazarus to act like the first type of implementation is ridiculous. This is what the thread starter didn't understand on the first place, and blaming it on approach taken by FPC/Lazarus. 1) is what the LCL aims for. It is more enduser friendly, but requires more work by the developper Yes. Ideally, again I said ideally which mean it hardly can be achieved, we (developers) should fullfil anything our users want. Whether it's difficult or not, it should be our problems, not theirs, because the users who pay the bill. Sometimes we and our users make some compromises for whatever reasons. :) -- -Bee- ...making buzzes at http://twitter.com/beezing ...writing stories at http://beeography.wordpress.com -- ___ Lazarus mailing list Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
