Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
Amazing POV :-) I'm a complete atheist and still share much of you POV because Brazil is largely (and my family is) Catholic (so I have some idea of what these people IMHO-stupid people think. Unfortunately, I don't know why, intelligent + phylosophical + logicist atheist...) And I almost ROFL when people say OMG Lazarus isn't Lazarus anymore :-/ Of course project, site and many other things can keep the name for any amount of time. But whatever, I'm not voting for a name change, I'm just saying that arguments (for not chaging) have been quite funnny... -Flávio On 5/19/06, m2 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Florian Klaempfl wrote: Lv wrote: So if you guys want to change the name, where does it leave users like me presenting papers at conferences and citing Lazarus in technical papers as my software of choice? Nice to hear that not all users believe into the imo stupid idea to change the name. I don't think either that the board of directors of lazarus (Michael H., Matthias, Marc, Vincents, Micha et al.) consider a name change :) Just for the record, I also think a name change is uncalled for. A name change would have serious consequences - and we could start promoting everything from zero since the new name will be even less known then Lazarus. The word Lazarus is neither offensive or more ambiguous than other well known projects and companies. One more comment: Cheetah is the simbol of FPC, not lazarus. A cheetah on a column is Lazarus. Now you don't see anyone calling FPC cheetah, nor calling Linux Pinguin. I agree with Andreas (and thank the board of directors and their fine insight in dismissing this idea as being a total waste of time and effort) Which fine insight? Calling it a stupid idea is a fine insight? ;-) The drawbacks from a name change are phenomenal!!! Even without the !!!, it would be exaggerated. 1) Loss of current user base who don't keep up on the mailing list and all of sudden can't find their product under the name they know (and hopefully love) What is your estimate of the average IQ of a current user? :-) 2) Loss of new user base. I have actively promoted Lazarus, whenever asked, as a great tool/environment with my contacts. Don't know how many have looked at it yet, but I'm going to be very embarrassed if they do finally take my advice and check it out, and it's called something different than what I was advertising. That's the contrary, there will be more new users more quickly (assuming the new name is good). Moreover, why all that panic around a simple change of name. That's a current practice. Many software editors make use of temporary names for the beta versions of their softwares. 3) I suspect would require a lot of effort in renaming all sorts of directories/web sites/links, blah blah blah on a global basis Yes, and this is the only valuable reason. A change of name could lead to too much work in rewriting for the Lazarus team. This is a problem because the possibility of a renaming has not been taken in account when starting the project. 4) Same as #3 above on each existing users's personal computer(s) Renaming once for all a few directories is not a problem. All this for some cosmetics? Cosmetic!? Some people are paid fortunes just to search for (and to find) the name of a new product. Are you saying that companies who pay them are wasting their money? Much better that we quit talking about this and get back to making a really great product that will really sell itself based on it's stability and functionality, not on whether it is called S__T or Lazarus. Just my two cents. Let's get back to work making Lazarus GREAT! Yes, and a change of name would be good in order to do that. Btw, why do you present things as if we have to choose between either a good name or a good quality. Asking for both of them, that's not possible? I agree that if a software is useful and of good quality, good name or bad name, it will be used. A bad name cannot kill a good software. But a good name can help it. And Lazarus is indeed very bad. What does this name suggest? Bringing back a death to the life. The first thing it leads to think of is the death. This is totally negative. Lazarus might be an appropriate name for a game where you have to destroy lots of death-alive ones in catacombs but there we are talking about a Pascal programming tool. Note that I don't say that naming the software Lazarus was a stupid idea, no, I try to explain why I think it was a bad idea. Stupid idea is not an explanation, it is at most a peremptory judgement. Personally, and very frankly, I don't care whether the Lazarus team decides to
Re: [lazarus] Speedbutton property transparant default value should be false.
On Fri, 19 May 2006 21:01:03 +0200 Marien van Westen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe at design time transparency and flat are disabled. Please run the program under Delphi. At run-time the speedbuttons have the same behaviour. I show some screenshots. Note that when transparacy is true and the mouse is over the button (runtime only) the borders are visible (2) otherwise the borders are invisible. Transparency is only effective when Flat is true ? As Flat is by default false, the default of Transparent does not really matter until you set Flat to true ? Micha _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Speedbutton property transparant default value should be false.
Micha Nelissen napisa(a): On Fri, 19 May 2006 21:01:03 +0200 "Marien van Westen" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe at design time transparency and flat are disabled. Please run the program under Delphi. At run-time the speedbuttons have the same behaviour. I show some screenshots. Note that when transparacy is true and the mouse is over the button (runtime only) the borders are visible (2) otherwise the borders are invisible. Transparency is only effective when Flat is true ? As Flat is by default false, the default of Transparent does not really matter until you set Flat to true ? Transparency work both, with flat=true button has border only when mouse is over with transparency=true don't fill inner area Darek
Re: [lazarus] Speedbutton property transparant default value should be false.
On Sat, 20 May 2006 10:37:01 +0200 DarekM [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Transparency work both, with flat=true button has border only when mouse is over with transparency=true don't fill inner area That contradicts Marien's picture 'speedbuttons-panel-delphi-runtime.png' (the first one). Micha _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Speedbutton property transparant default value should be false.
On 5/20/06, Micha Nelissen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 20 May 2006 10:37:01 +0200DarekM [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Transparency work both, with flat=true buttonhas border only when mouse is over with transparency=true don't fill inner areaThat contradicts Marien's picture'speedbuttons-panel-delphi-runtime.png' (the first one).Yes, in Delphi speedbuttons have a border. The property Flat is untouched in all cases. In Delphi and Lazarus the default of Flat is False. Marien
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
Flávio Etrusco wrote: Unfortunately, I don't know why, intelligent + phylosophical + logicist atheist...) Because believing in one and only one CREATOR is intelligent + philosophical + logical. see http://www.islam-guide.com for more information. On 5/19/06, m2 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't care whether the Lazarus team decides to change the name or not. Now, I know and use Lazarus. For me its name has no more importance, I know what is behind it. But this is not the case for those who don't know it yet. Yes, a real developer probably wouldn't care what name it has, but a real developer probably has real clients. Those clients probably have no clue, so cosmetics is probably critical to be able to convince them, if you know what I mean :) So the situation is probably like this: Client What language do you use to implement our system. Devlpr Pascal. Client Say what??? Devlpr Uh, I meant to say LAZARUS. Client What With a smart/cosmetic name change the same goes probably like this: Client What language do you use to implement our system. Devlpr OpenRAD. It allows me to pick a language specific to your needs. Client Wow! Thanks! -- Al _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
With a smart/cosmetic name change the same goes probably like this: 9 years ago, FPC changed it's name after being 1 1/2 known to the internet and it was a lot of work and caused a lot of confusion. Client What language do you use to implement our system. Devlpr OpenRAD. It allows me to pick a language specific to your needs. Well, that's a lie :) Lazarus supports only Object Pascal. If you're lying anyways, you can also tell the customer you're using an OpenRAD but it's in fact FPC and lazarus if you care about the name. Client Wow! Feel free to create OpenRAD based on FPC, gcc and lazarus ;) _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
Florian Klaempfl wrote: With a smart/cosmetic name change the same goes probably like this: 9 years ago, FPC changed it's name after being 1 1/2 known to the internet and it was a lot of work and caused a lot of confusion. FPC is straight forward, like gcc. No need to change it. Client What language do you use to implement our system. Devlpr OpenRAD. It allows me to pick a language specific to your needs. Well, that's a lie :) Lazarus supports only Object Pascal. If you're lying anyways, you can also tell the customer you're using an OpenRAD but it's in fact FPC and lazarus if you care about the name. That's Lazarus, what about OpenRAD? Client Wow! Feel free to create OpenRAD based on FPC, gcc and lazarus ;) Lazarus isn't a language, it's a RAD. And a good one too! But it would be sad to see this effort being expended towards one language only. Lazarus is too good, not to be leveraged. Think about it! Thanks! -- Al _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
Al Boldi wrote: Flávio Etrusco wrote: Unfortunately, I don't know why, intelligent + phylosophical + logicist atheist...) Because believing in one and only one CREATOR is intelligent + philosophical + logical. see http://www.islam-guide.com for more information. On 5/19/06, m2 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't care whether the Lazarus team decides to change the name or not. Now, I know and use Lazarus. For me its name has no more importance, I know what is behind it. But this is not the case for those who don't know it yet. Yes, a real developer probably wouldn't care what name it has, but a real developer probably has real clients. Those clients probably have no clue, so cosmetics is probably critical to be able to convince them, if you know what I mean :) So the situation is probably like this: Client What language do you use to implement our system. Devlpr Pascal. Client Say what??? Devlpr Uh, I meant to say LAZARUS. Client What With a smart/cosmetic name change the same goes probably like this: Client What language do you use to implement our system. Devlpr OpenRAD. It allows me to pick a language specific to your needs. Client Wow! Thanks! -- Al Ok, I have another idea. Client: What language do you use to implement our system? Devlp: An object-oriented mature language.. with properties and son on. Even C# was derived from it... Client: C#? Devlp: Yes, the guy who was behind Delphi went to Microsoft to create C#...Somehow it has elements of Delphi.. Client: What is it? Devlp: Object Pascal.. Client: Does anyone use Pascal? Devlp: A lot of people if you ask. Anyone who uses Delphi. And it is is Object Pascal.. But let us leave Delphi.. I use Lazarus IDE which is similar to Delphi. Client: SImilar? Devlp: Oh , yes and it is freeless cost and more freedom... Client: What is Lazarus Ide? Devlp:It contains Object Pascal and developer tools, GUI designer... So on So on.. Correct me if I made some mistakes ... Márton Papp _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
Florian Klaempfl wrote: With a smart/cosmetic name change the same goes probably like this: 9 years ago, FPC changed it's name after being 1 1/2 known to the internet and it was a lot of work and caused a lot of confusion. FPC is straight forward, like gcc. No need to change it. I fear you missed the point. But it would be sad to see this effort being expended towards one language only. Lazarus is too good, not to be leveraged. Think about it! There is no need to think as long as no new developers pop up who start to work on this. _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
On Sat, 2006-05-20 at 14:37 +0300, Al Boldi wrote: Feel free to create OpenRAD based on FPC, gcc and lazarus ;) Lazarus isn't a language, it's a RAD. And a good one too! But it would be sad to see this effort being expended towards one language only. Lazarus is too good, not to be leveraged. Think about it! You have to turn it around: Lazarus could have become so good because it's written in Object Pascal. Pascal which offers a good basic, structured language which makes it easy to implement an advanced, complex system with a group of programmers in a relative short time. That programmers in other languages don't succeed in writing their own RAD, doesn't mean that we have to provide them with one, imho. But if someone else want to do that... be my guest. I'm not gonna do it. Joost. _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
Al Boldi a écrit : Flávio Etrusco wrote: Unfortunately, I don't know why, intelligent + phylosophical + logicist atheist...) Because believing in one and only one CREATOR is intelligent + philosophical + logical. This is overall very restful. The idea of god allows to explain everything without it is required to understand anything. On 5/19/06, m2 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't care whether the Lazarus team decides to change the name or not. Now, I know and use Lazarus. For me its name has no more importance, I know what is behind it. But this is not the case for those who don't know it yet. Yes, a real developer probably wouldn't care what name it has, but a real developer probably has real clients. Those clients probably have no clue, so cosmetics is probably critical to be able to convince them, if you know what I mean :) I am not sure to understand but, if there is no hidden meaning, yes, I agree. mm _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
On 5/20/06, Joost van der Sluis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That programmers in other languages don't succeed in writing their own RAD, doesn't mean that we have to provide them with one, imho. But if someone else want to do that... be my guest. I'm not gonna do it. But then, people who like working with Lazarus might be forced to use other languages by those who pay us. This way we can make those people and also also us happy. Of course I don't think those who don't pass by this situation should be forced to help implementing it. The biggest problem is that I cannot see the advantage of adding c++ for Lazarus for example, without allowing it to access LCL. This would make it just another text editor, and there is plenty already. Maybe a C++_to_pascal converter could help in this situation. -- Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
[lazarus] contemplating future of Lazarus in context of Mono and dotGNU
Activities around making free open-source alternative to MS .NET (Mono, dotGNU) and Visual Studio .NET (MonoDevelop,SharpDevelop) are very intensive and rapidly aproaches to the final goal. With recent incuding of Stetic, It is easy to forseen that MonoDevelop will soon become visual RAD tool comparable to Visual Studio. Also, it will probably be working on Windows too, in some not very distant future. SharpDevelop, with its support for Windows Forms, is even now completely functional and is great alternative to Visual Studio on Windows platform. With it's support for Mono and GTK# it will probably evolve to cross-platform RAD tool. So, my questions is whether Lazarus can compete MonoDevelop and SharpDevelop in the era of .NET in both WIndows and Linux? Will Lazarus face similar fate like Delphi? Just for thinking, not for arguing... _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Speedbutton property transparant default value should be false.
Micha Nelissen napisa(a): On Sat, 20 May 2006 10:37:01 +0200 DarekM [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Transparency work both, with flat=true button has border only when mouse is over with transparency=true don't fill inner area That contradicts Marien's picture 'speedbuttons-panel-delphi-runtime.png' (the first one). This is slide from my application write in Delphi all buttons are transparent=true and flat=true only button under mouse has border different is when we work on IDE, then button has always border Darek
Re: [lazarus] Speedbutton property transparant default value should be false.
On Sat, 20 May 2006 14:54:40 +0200 DarekM [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Transparency work both, with flat=true button has border only when mouse is over with transparency=true don't fill inner area That contradicts Marien's picture 'speedbuttons-panel-delphi-runtime.png' (the first one). This is slide from my application write in Delphi all buttons are transparent=true and flat=true only button under mouse has border No I mean, with Flat=false, then the button is not transparent. This is clearly visible in Marien's screenshot. You say that the button is transparent in both cases, but clearly it is not. Micha _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Speedbutton property transparant default value should be false.
On 5/20/06, DarekM [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Micha Nelissen napisał(a): On Sat, 20 May 2006 10:37:01 +0200DarekM [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Transparency work both,with flat=true button has border only when mouse is overwith transparency=true don't fill inner area That contradicts Marien's picture'speedbuttons-panel-delphi-runtime.png' (the first one). This is slide from my application write in Delphi all buttons are transparent=true and flat=true only button under mouse has border different is when we work on IDE, then button has always border In my app I have a signal generater and the speedbuttons only have a Caption to select frequency range.In Delphi I can see the different buttons, but not in Lazarus.I attach two pictures to show the difference. N.B. I tried to improve things bij placing the buttons in a groupbox in the Lazarus version, hence the line above the buttons (as you can see that's not an improvement).Marien speedbuttons-delphi.png Description: PNG image speedbuttons-lazarus.png Description: PNG image
Re: [lazarus] Speedbutton property transparant default value should be false.
Micha Nelissen napisa(a): On Sat, 20 May 2006 14:54:40 +0200 DarekM [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Transparency work both, with flat=true button has border only when mouse is over with transparency=true don't fill inner area That contradicts Marien's picture 'speedbuttons-panel-delphi-runtime.png' (the first one). This is slide from my application write in Delphi all buttons are transparent=true and flat=true only button under mouse has border No I mean, with Flat=false, then the button is not transparent. This is clearly visible in Marien's screenshot. You say that the button is transparent in both cases, but clearly it is not. Yes, now I see (when Flat=false then not carry transparent) Who prepare patch (If nobody i send it tomorrow) Darek
Re: [lazarus] Speedbutton property transparant default value should be false.
Marien van Westen napisał(a): On 5/20/06, DarekM [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Micha Nelissen napisał(a): On Sat, 20 May 2006 10:37:01 +0200 DarekM [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Transparency work both, with flat=true button has border only when mouse is over with transparency=true don't fill inner area That contradicts Marien's picture 'speedbuttons-panel-delphi-runtime.png' (the first one). This is slide from my application write in Delphi all buttons are transparent=true and flat=true only button under mouse has border different is when we work on IDE, then button has always border In my app I have a signal generater and the speedbuttons only have a Caption to select frequency range. In Delphi I can see the different buttons, but not in Lazarus. Have You property Flat=true ? I attach two pictures to show the difference. N.B. I tried to improve things bij placing the buttons in a groupbox in the Lazarus version, hence the line above the buttons (as you can see that's not an improvement). Can You send test program Darek
Re: [lazarus] contemplating future of Lazarus in context of Mono and dotGNU
2006/5/20, Zlatko Matić [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Activities around making free open-source alternative to MS .NET (Mono, dotGNU) and Visual Studio .NET (MonoDevelop,SharpDevelop) are very intensive and rapidly aproaches to the final goal. With recent incuding of Stetic, It is easy to forseen that MonoDevelop will soon become visual RAD tool comparable to Visual Studio. Also, it will probably be working on Windows too, in some not very distant future. SharpDevelop, with its support for Windows Forms, is even now completely functional and is great alternative to Visual Studio on Windows platform. With it's support for Mono and GTK# it will probably evolve to cross-platform RAD tool. So, my questions is whether Lazarus can compete MonoDevelop and SharpDevelop in the era of .NET in both WIndows and Linux? Will Lazarus face similar fate like Delphi? Just for thinking, not for arguing... It is, I believe, a good thing to think about. I will resume my idea in only two points, if this was possible; I'm not an old-timer in this project, nor in core devel: - have a roadmap for a final stable release of a version 1 with anticipated work load, tasks, and probable release date (we already have some parts of that point) -- clear project management to direct efforts; - have a visible and strong community of people that use the tool in major projects and commercial projects; this will influence people to also choose this technology for other projects since it has major adoption -- project visibility and adoption. But I know, this is an open source project; but with no leadership... people will leave the ship :). But I know delphi was (and is still) very popular, but for some reasons there is the perception of (or real) market loss. I have not idea why. Maybe others have. My 2 cents, for thinking too, not for arguing. -- Alexandre Leclerc _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] contemplating future of Lazarus in context of Mono and dotGNU
Alexandre Leclerc wrote: 2006/5/20, Zlatko Matić [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Activities around making free open-source alternative to MS .NET (Mono, dotGNU) and Visual Studio .NET (MonoDevelop,SharpDevelop) are very intensive and rapidly aproaches to the final goal. With recent incuding of Stetic, It is easy to forseen that MonoDevelop will soon become visual RAD tool comparable to Visual Studio. Also, it will probably be working on Windows too, in some not very distant future. SharpDevelop, with its support for Windows Forms, is even now completely functional and is great alternative to Visual Studio on Windows platform. With it's support for Mono and GTK# it will probably evolve to cross-platform RAD tool. So, my questions is whether Lazarus can compete MonoDevelop and SharpDevelop in the era of .NET in both WIndows and Linux? Will Lazarus face similar fate like Delphi? Just for thinking, not for arguing... It is, I believe, a good thing to think about. I will resume my idea in only two points, if this was possible; I'm not an old-timer in this project, nor in core devel: - have a roadmap for a final stable release of a version 1 with anticipated work load, tasks, and probable release date (we already have some parts of that point) -- clear project management to direct efforts; I think this list is hard to manage, but maybe you have some tips: http://www.freepascal.org/mantis/view_all_set.php?type=3source_query_id=91 Vincent _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
I'm a complete atheist and still share much of you POV because Brazil is largely (and my family is) Catholic (so I have some idea of what these people IMHO-stupid people think. Unfortunately, I don't know why, intelligent + phylosophical + logicist atheist...) Belief is a wise wager. Granted that faith cannot be proved, what harm will come to you if you gamble on its truth and it proves false? If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager, then, without hesitation, that He exists. -- Blaise Pascal Being atheist means you beleive that he does not exist. This, in my opinion, is just as bad as beleiving he does exist. Becuase you are saying you believe he doesn't exist. But you don't know. Therefore, most atheists are labelling themselves in the wrong category - IMO, all atheists should convert to agnostic.. which is much more intelligent of a decision, IMO. _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] contemplating future of Lazarus in context of Mono and dotGNU
On Saturday 20 May 2006 05:46, Zlatko Matić wrote: Activities around making free open-source alternative to MS .NET (Mono, dotGNU) and Visual Studio .NET (MonoDevelop,SharpDevelop) are very intensive and rapidly aproaches to the final goal. With recent incuding of Stetic, It is easy to forseen that MonoDevelop will soon become visual RAD tool comparable to Visual Studio. Also, it will probably be working on Windows too, in some not very distant future. SharpDevelop, with its support for Windows Forms, is even now completely functional and is great alternative to Visual Studio on Windows platform. With it's support for Mono and GTK# it will probably evolve to cross-platform RAD tool. So, my questions is whether Lazarus can compete MonoDevelop and SharpDevelop in the era of .NET in both WIndows and Linux? Will Lazarus face similar fate like Delphi? Just for thinking, not for arguing... I think you bring up a very valid point. But it is based on the assumption the founders and current leaders want to compete. I doubt they (the founders and current leaders) care if Mono becomes the RAD of choice. I come with a different point of view to Lazarus. I want to build projects that first feed my family and second please my sense of right. I still work with windows products that feed my family but I see the future as Linux. I also see Linux feeding my sense of good. So I wanted a Linux programming environment that offered similar experiences to my current environment and allowed me to contribute. Lazarus fits perfectly for now. But I see the hand writting on the wall. Mono could easily over shadow Lazarus in the next few months. First Mono has funding. Second it has a very large following. And third the Mono community take the project very seriously. Side note: Many of the Mono community just hate windows. I recently noticed a thread on the Lazarus mailing list suggesting that the Pascal compiler support different languages. Mono already does it. I read many comments on how the IDE should support GTK2. Mono does it and has a GUI builder. So your point is valid but in the end does it matter? BTW Mono has issues too. It does not compile into a stand alone executable. The support lib's are very big. Just to name two. John _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
On Sat, 2006-05-20 at 14:37 +0300, Al Boldi wrote: Feel free to create OpenRAD based on FPC, gcc and lazarus ;) Lazarus isn't a language, it's a RAD. And a good one too! But it would be sad to see this effort being expended towards one language only. Lazarus is too good, not to be leveraged. Think about it! You have to turn it around: Lazarus could have become so good because it's written in Object Pascal. Pascal which offers a good basic, structured language which makes it easy to implement an advanced, complex system with a group of programmers in a relative short time. Although readability is boosted I still find it takes years/months to make a complex project that does anything worthwhile in Pascal - or any language. And many C++ programmers are genius types - who could care less if the language is slightly more messy, because they have enough genius in them to understand it anyway. So it ends up being that a C++ program is just as easy to maintain if you are genius. I'm not a genius and don't want to exercise a brain part that I don't have to - so I use a more readable language. _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
L505 a écrit : I'm a complete atheist and still share much of you POV because Brazil is largely (and my family is) Catholic (so I have some idea of what these people IMHO-stupid people think. Unfortunately, I don't know why, intelligent + phylosophical + logicist atheist...) Belief is a wise wager. Granted that faith cannot be proved, what harm will come to you if you gamble on its truth and it proves false? If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager, then, without hesitation, that He exists. -- Blaise Pascal The Pascal bet? There are lots of critics. 1) Believing in a god just to gain all? What an admirable faith! 2) You lose nothing! Of course not. If I choose to believe in god to gain all (but all what?), I have to follow the religion precepts. In particular, I lose all the religion forbids in my current life. 3) Pascal implicitly claims there are only two possibilities : 'No god, no eternal life' or 'A god and an eternal life'. What about, 'A god and no eternal life'? Yes, I agree, that's much less pleasant. Being atheist means you beleive that he does not exist. Certainly not. Not seeing something where there is nothing and where it is not necessary that there is something is not a belief, it is a knowledge. I don't not to believe that there is a Rammstein CD in orbit around Pluto, I do know there is none (but don't ask me to prove it, I cannot). This, in my opinion, is just as bad as beleiving he does exist. Becuase you are saying you believe he doesn't exist. But you don't know. Therefore, most atheists are labelling themselves in the wrong category - IMO, all atheists should convert to agnostic.. which is much more intelligent of a decision, IMO. It is not a decision, it is a name :-) BTW, don't be offended if ever I do no more answer that kind of post. I _believe_ that, there, we are vastly OT. mm _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
m2 wrote: Certainly not. Not seeing something where there is nothing and where it is not necessary that there is something is not a belief, it is a knowledge. I don't not to believe that there is a Rammstein CD in orbit around Pluto, I do know there is none (but don't ask me to prove it, I cannot). To prove the absence of something is always harder then the existance of something. It's the basic requirement of every conspiracy theory. _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
On 5/20/06, Joost van der Sluis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That programmers in other languages don't succeed in writing their own RAD, doesn't mean that we have to provide them with one, imho. But if someone else want to do that... be my guest. I'm not gonna do it. But then, people who like working with Lazarus might be forced to use other languages by those who pay us. This way we can make those people and also also us happy. Of course I don't think those who don't pass by this situation should be forced to help implementing it. The biggest problem is that I cannot see the advantage of adding c++ for Lazarus for example, without allowing it to access LCL. This would make it just another text editor, and there is plenty already. Maybe a C++_to_pascal converter could help in this situation. The problem with mixing language is that you spend tons of time making workarounds for the difference between the languages. One or two similar languages like C and Pascal is not so bad but when you try and integrate a dynamically typed language and a strong typed language, and a few static and a few weak languages your IDE becomes one giant workaround instead of a solid dedicated product. For example, if the IDE was to handle PHP - would variables be declared in a strong typing fashion so that the IDE could parse the file and find the var declaration? No. There is no var declaration in PHP. So what good is the find declaration code tools item in the menu. So you'd have to remove that feature out of the IDE just for PHP - hence taking time out to make the IDE a workaround, instead of taking the time to do other things. And that bloats it up, with lots of workaround code. Unless you use a plug-in system which may be very very complicated and very well thought out - and even then, you still have to explain to the users how to download which plug-in for which language - instead of just shipping them one easy to install IDE dedicated to Pascal. _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
Being atheist means you beleive that he does not exist. Certainly not. Not seeing something where there is nothing and where it is not necessary that there is something is not a belief, it is a knowledge. I don't not to believe that there is a Rammstein CD in orbit around Pluto, I do know there is none (but don't ask me to prove it, I cannot). Does a dog have knowledge about colors? Can a dog imagine red, orange, blue, green, purple, violet, etc? A dog can only see certain shades - gray, some blue. So if you asked a dog whether he believed red/orange/yellow/purple existed, the dog would tell you that you are full of shit. Well, an agnostic dog, on the other hand would say I don't know - I'm not sure - maybe you are right, maybe you are wrong. Therefore you are agnostic, not atheist. Agnostic is not knowing, and let me tell you 100 percent of the world does not know anything about how or where the world was created, and how or where the thing that created that world was created, or whether it was a thing or not - or some figment of some thing's imagination. 100 percent of the world does not know anything - we are all agnostic. None of us are atheists, and none of us are religious. We all do not know. Otherwise, there wouldn't be so many different religions out there - if we KNEW what existed we would only have one religion. If KNEW that nothing existed, we would all be atheists. This is no the case. We know NOTHING, we are all agnostic. YOU don't know there are more colors out there than the ones we can see. If dogs cannot see certain colors, we ourselves may not be able to see certain colors. You do not know. We may or may not be the only being out there that can see as many colors as we can. But you do not know. Believing that we are the only being out there that can see all colors is like being atheist - you think you know something, but you are just as bad as those who believe in aliens or those who believe in god. You are just as naive. The reality is, you do not know, and they do not know - you are ALL agnostic. _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] contemplating future of Lazarus in context of Mono and dotGNU
I come with a different point of view to Lazarus. I want to build projects that first feed my family and second please my sense of right. All of us who think this way should start a group/joint endeavor together because I am voting for the same thing, and I'm sick of all the folks out there who have real jobs and consider programming just a game that you play on the side. Or worse, the folks who are in school and participate in open source projects when they are at school, but then as soon as they get out of school and get a real job they ditch the open source project that seemed so right to them in school but so wrong to them once they found out that family requires a real job and a real living. Or the folks who work on an open source project but then Microsoft contacts them and immediately they go and work for Microsoft (hello, Gentoo founder - sorry to insult you). So, if anyone feels the same way, or at least you have something in common with JohnF and my thinking, we should joint venture, no? If this is offtopic, respond to JohnF and me privately maybe, and we could get something on the go. _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
On Sat, 20 May 2006 12:31:02 -0600 L505 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Being atheist means you beleive that he does not exist. Certainly not. Not seeing something where there is nothing and where it is not necessary that there is something is not a belief, it is a knowledge. I don't not to believe that there is a Rammstein CD in orbit around Pluto, I do know there is none (but don't ask me to prove it, I cannot). Does a dog have knowledge about colors? Can a dog imagine red, orange, blue, green, purple, violet, etc? A dog can only see certain shades - gray, some blue. So if you asked a dog whether he believed red/orange/yellow/purple existed, the dog would tell you that you are full of shit. Well, an agnostic dog, on the other hand would say I don't know - I'm not sure - maybe you are right, maybe you are wrong. Therefore you are agnostic, not atheist. Agnostic is not knowing, and let me tell you 100 percent of the world does not know anything about how or where the world was created, and how or where the thing that created that world was created, or whether it was a thing or not - or some figment of some thing's imagination. 100 percent of the world does not know anything - we are all agnostic. None of us are atheists, and none of us are religious. We all do not know. Otherwise, there wouldn't be so many different religions out there - if we KNEW what existed we would only have one religion. If KNEW that nothing existed, we would all be atheists. This is no the case. We know NOTHING, we are all agnostic. YOU don't know there are more colors out there than the ones we can see. If dogs cannot see certain colors, we ourselves may not be able to see certain colors. You do not know. We may or may not be the only being out there that can see as many colors as we can. But you do not know. Believing that we are the only being out there that can see all colors is like being atheist - you think you know something, but you are just as bad as those who believe in aliens or those who believe in god. You are just as naive. The reality is, you do not know, and they do not know - you are ALL agnostic. Thanks for enlightening us. But this whole discussion has really nothing to do with lazarus/fpc/programming in any sense. So everybody wanting to talk about religion please stop spamming this mailing list and talk somewhere else. Thank you for your understanding. _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] contemplating future of Lazarus in context of Mono and dotGNU
On Sat, 20 May 2006, L505 wrote: I come with a different point of view to Lazarus. I want to build projects that first feed my family and second please my sense of right. All of us who think this way should start a group/joint endeavor together because I am voting for the same thing, and I'm sick of all the folks out there who have real jobs and consider programming just a game that you play on the side. Erhm ? The above goes for almost the whole FPC and Lazarus core teams ? So, should we understand that you are sick of us ?? ;-) Jokes aside: You know the point of view of the core programmers, it has been discussed at length in the various mailing lists. We will not start a group/foundation ourselves. But personally, I'll be happy to help where help is needed with forming a group, and act as a liaison. Michael. _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Anybody know what is wrong here ?
A.J. Venter napsal(a):
I'm trying to extend my tsimple_html component so it can read from a
tstringlist property instead of a URL (which in many [at least of my]
programs could severely reduce overhead).
So I basically just added a tstringlist property exactly as I have always done
it before (and I compared code with my other components, I cannot find the
difference).
But in this one, the moment you click the property editor for the tstringlist,
it throws an access violation - not a good sign.
Any chance somebody knows what I am doing wrong here ? (code attached)
A.J.
Maybe changing type of FLines and Lines property from TStringList to
TStrings would help.
tombo
Unit simple_html;
{A simple file based html viewer component based on ippro with image viewing
added}
{$mode objfpc}{$H+}
interface
uses
LResources,Classes, SysUtils, Forms, Controls,
Graphics,IPHtml,lazjpeg,util,simple_downloader
,fileUtil,dialogs,extCtrls;
Type
TParseEvent = procedure(Sender: TObject;TempFileName:String) of object;
THTML = class(TIpHtml)
public
property OnGetImageX;
end;
TSimpleHtml = Class(TComponent)
private
FTDIR : String;
FURL : String;
FHTML : THTML;
FLines : TStringlist;
FPanel : TipHTMLPanel;
FParseMe: TParseEvent;
FDownLoader : TSimple_Downloader;
Function FetchURL(URL:String):String;
destructor destroy;
procedure setHTMLSTrings(const Avalue: TStringlist);
Public
constructor Create(AOwner: TComponent);
procedure showHTML;
Procedure HTMLGetImageX(Sender: TIpHtmlNode; Const URL:
String; Var Picture: TPicture);
published
property URL : String read FURL write FURL;
property HTMLSTrings : TStringlist read FLines write
setHTMLSTrings;
property TempDir : String read FTDir write FTDir;
property Panel: TipHTMLPanel read FPanel write Fpanel;
property OnCanParse: TParseEvent read FParseMe write
FParseMe;
property DownLoader : TSimple_Downloader read FDownLoader
Write FDownloader;
End;
procedure Register;
Implementation
procedure Register;
begin
RegisterComponents('OLPack',[TSimpleHTML]);
end;
Procedure TSimpleHTML.SetHTMLSTrings(const Avalue: TStringList);
Begin
If AValue Nil then
FLines.Assign(AValue);
end;
Function TSimpleHTML.FetchURL(URL:String):String;
Var
SDIR,Ext: STring;
Begin
If pos('://',URL) = 0 then
FetchURL := URL
else begin
FileUTil.ForceDirectory(FTDIR);
SDIR := '';
Ext := UpperCase(ExtractFileExt(URL));
If (Ext = '.JPG') or
(Ext = '.PNG') or
(Ext = '.GIF') or
(Ext = '.XPM') then
SDIR := FTDIR+pathDelim+ExtractFileName(URL) else
If (length(ExtractFileName(URL)) = 0) or (Length(EXT)=0) then
SDIR := FTDIR+pathdelim+'index.html' else
If pos('.html',ExtractFileName(URL)) = 0 then
SDIR := FTDIR+pathdelim+ExtractFileName(URL)+'.html' else
SDIR := FTDIR+pathdelim+ExtractFileName(URL);
SDIR := SingleSlashes(SDIR);
DownLoader.URL := URL;
Downloader.Download;
DownLoader.Output.SaveToFile(SDIR);
if ((ExtractFileExt(SDIR) = '.html') or (ExtractFileExt(SDIR) = '.htm'))
And (Assigned(FParseMe)) then
FParseMe(Self,SDIR);
FetchURL := SDIR;
end;
end;
Procedure TSimpleHTML.HTMLGetImageX(Sender:TIpHtmlNode; Const URL: String; Var
Picture: TPicture);
Var
PicCreated: boolean;
IMGFile:String;
Begin
Try
IF (FileExists(FTDIR+PathDelim+ExtractFileName(URL))) then
IMGFile := FTDIR+PathDelim+ExtractFileName(URL) else
if (pos('://',URL) 0) then
IMGFile := FetchURL(URL) else
IMGFILE := URL;
If FileExists(IMGFIle) Then
Begin
PicCreated := False;
If Picture=Nil Then
Begin
Picture := TPicture.Create;
PicCreated := True;
End;
Picture.LoadFromFile(IMGFile);
End;
Except
If PicCreated Then
Picture.Free;
Picture := Nil;
End;
End;
Constructor TSimpleHTML.Create(AOwner: TComponent);
Begin
FLines := TStringlist.create;
inherited create(AOwner);
End;
Procedure TSimpleHTML.ShowHTML;
Var Path : String;
HTMLStream: TMemoryStream;
I :Integer;
Begin
if length(FTDir) = 0 then
FTDir := SysUtils.GetTempFileName;
If Length(FURL) 0 then
begin
Path := FetchURL(FURL);
HTMLStream := TMemoryStream.Create;
HTMLStream.LoadFromFile(Path);
end else
begin
For I := 0 to FLines.Count - 1 do
HTMLStream.WriteAnsiString(FLines[I]);
end;
FHTML := THTML.Create;
FHTML.OnGetImageX := @HTMLGetImageX;
FHTML.LoadFromStream(HTMLStream);
HTMLStream.Free;
Panel.SetHTML(FHtml);
End;
destructor TSimpleHTML.destroy;
Begin
FLines.Free;
inherited destroy;
End;
Re: [lazarus] Anybody know what is wrong here ?
Any chance somebody knows what I am doing wrong here ? (code attached) A.J. Maybe changing type of FLines and Lines property from TStringList to TStrings would help. tombo It was the first thing I tried :S A.J. -- there's nothing as inspirational for a hacker as a cat obscuring a bug by sitting in front of the monitor - Boudewijn Rempt A.J. Venter Chief Software Architect OpenLab International www.getopenlab.com www.silentcoder.co.za +27 82 726 5103 _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
On 5/20/06, Lord Satan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So everybody wanting to talk about religion please stop spamming this mailing list and talk somewhere else. the irony of this request coming from lord satan himself is not to be missed ... ;) Tony -- X-SA user ? 0.5.1 is out ! XData 0.1 for X-SA is out ! http://x-plane.dsrts.com _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Anybody know what is wrong here ?
I can't see anything wrong either... Guess we'll need a callstack... Out of curiosity, if you comment out the body of the SetHtmlStrings method is the AV still raised? -Flávio On 5/20/06, A.J. Venter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Any chance somebody knows what I am doing wrong here ? (code attached) A.J. Maybe changing type of FLines and Lines property from TStringList to TStrings would help. tombo It was the first thing I tried :S A.J. _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
Hello, Belief is a wise wager. Granted that faith cannot be proved, what harm will come to you if you gamble on its truth and it proves false? If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager, then, without hesitation, that He exists. -- Blaise Pascal There is another interresting point in this discussion. Suppose you play the game, you say without hesitation that god exists! And then time passes, and, eventually, you die. Upon your arrival for the final judgement you find yourself standing in front of Ra, the egiptian god. And he is pretty pissed that you were worshiping a false god. =) Wouldn´t that be funny?? If god exists, why doesn´t the other gods exist? What makes this god better or more probable? If you ask me, the most unprobably thing in the universe is life. How come out of Carbon, Hidrogen, Nitrogen and Oxigen, the essence of life be formed? Those are just 4 elements, unliving things by definition. Life comes from things not alive? Or is there soul? I beliave that we will have one of the most important answers we may have when we have a computer powerful enougth to simulate the brain. If it succeds and artifical life can be created, then most likely the soul does not exist. And we are just aglomerates of minerals. If all effors fail it would be like discovering that magic exist =) We are magic. thanks, -- Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
Florian Klaempfl a écrit : m2 wrote: Certainly not. Not seeing something where there is nothing and where it is not necessary that there is something is not a belief, it is a knowledge. I don't not to believe that there is a Rammstein CD in orbit around Pluto, I do know there is none (but don't ask me to prove it, I cannot). To prove the absence of something is always harder then the existance of something. It's the basic requirement of every conspiracy theory. Agreed. BTW, since you are the one who is working on the Win64 FPC version, maybe you can answer some questions. The goal is to write a 64-bit version of the NX lib. Do you think this is already feasible (with the current FPC snapshot) or have I to wait a little more? I didn't buy WinXP-64 yet (I am never in a hurry to give money to Macro$hit), I am waiting for FPC-64. Is it already usable? And if not, when do you expect it is (approximately)? Thanks. mm _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
Thanks for enlightening us. But this whole discussion has really nothing to do with lazarus/fpc/programming in any sense. I brought in a quote from Blaise Pascal for the basis of my posts. And you should familiarize yourself with Blaise Pascal as some of his quotes are very related to programming, if you look at them from a certain angle. Blaise Pascal has everything to do with the Pascal programming language since the language was named after him, didn't you know. And Wirth himself must have at least agreed with some of Blaise's points, otherwise he wouldn't have picked him for the language name. I wouldn't have brought the quote in, if it was from someone else other than Mr. Pascal. _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] OT - Request for PR noise !
Upon your arrival for the final judgement you find yourself standing in front of Ra, the egiptian god. And he is pretty pissed that you were worshiping a false god. =) Wouldn´t that be funny?? Another quote from Blaise explains the answer to this.. I think Blaise says that no religions are wrong, they are all right. Personally, since I don't know - I don't know. And I stop there. I just don't know. So no point in choosing a specific religion if you do not know, and no point in choosing atheism if you do not know.. it just makes the most sense! Being agnostic still allows you to discover and look for reasons WHY and WHAT, it just allows you to not make a fool of yourself - because when someone asks you, you just say you don't know. Anyone intelligent can figure out that saying you DON'T know, when you don't know, makes the most sense. What's really funny is a lot of famous programmers claim to be atheist. (again, on topic). If you research Linus/RMS/And others.. But truly, I think they are agnostic - even Charles Darwin himself was calling himself an Atheist but then he changed later on in life - to agnostic. Some atheists don't discover that they are actually agnostic until further on in life - and this is okay. That's basically what I was saying - it is OKAY to not know, and it is OKAY to change your beliefs at some point in time too - for example I was under the belief that := was a stupid thing to use in a language since = is shorter when I first tried Pascal but my beliefs changed when I learned the reason why to use := and now = looks dumb when I see PHP or C code since it is not math-like at all. (again, ontopic - for the sensitive folks). If god exists, why doesn´t the other gods exist? What makes this god better or more probable? If you ask me, the most unprobably thing in the universe is life. How come out of Carbon, Hidrogen, Nitrogen and Oxigen, the essence of life be formed? Those are just 4 elements, unliving things by definition. Life comes from things not alive? Or is there soul? I beliave that we will have one of the most important answers we may have when we have a computer powerful enougth to simulate the brain. If it succeds and artifical life can be created, then most likely the soul does not exist. And we are just aglomerates of minerals. Computers can do lots of things that humans can't though - which is magical. Even cars seem like magic. Look at horses and compare them to cars. There are advantages to having things that are not like humans - you can't command a computer to do work - that would be slavery. But you can command a computer to do work and it won't feel any pain. So in some sense, we don't need to invent a human, we need to invent things that don't have feelings, so we can get stuff done with less human pain. We can only hack with existing matter so far, and we can't create the matter. So even if we make an artifical intelligence based robot, we still are only hacking with existing nature matter, and not actually creating anything. (and to stay on topic, for the sensitive folks, maybe the robot was powered by a Pascal program embedded into it's chips - although the lisp folks are probably thinking lisp, since Pascal is structured and mean to be commanded, while lisp is loose and meant to be expanded). _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
