Re: A response from Andy Anderson Of Legacy Regarding Support.

[Richard Ellis]

Roger
Was your statement made with tongue in cheek--However it did make me 
smile, He does know how to pick'em

Joe
 On reflection I can see your point. Lets move on!!
Richard

On Wednesday, November 15, 2017 at 4:47:53 AM UTC, Tim wrote:
>
>
> I had a conversation with Andy Anderson of Legacy and he has asked me to 
> forward this email to the group.  
>
>  Forwarded Message  
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear Tim,
>
>
> I can see the confusion caused by our statement but if you understand that 
> support, to us, means coaching and producing new training materials for a 
> product and of course manufacturing means we still build new OM's then it 
> becomes quite clear. I can see that a longer, wordier explanation could 
> have been used to tell the story but I'm sure that those determined to 
> complain would have found something in the longer explanation to complain 
> about too.  With a little effort say, a phone call to me, and the whole 
> story could have been told on the thread but telling the truth, getting the 
> whole story onto the forum, is not what some of those making comments on 
> the thread intended.   
>
>
> Some of the claims and statements made in the thread are incorrect and 
> some just not true and if any of these folks had an ounce of courage they 
> would have spoken to me instead of wasting their time and yours in an 
> online conversation with others that definitely don't have the answers 
> either.  I have an 800 number, I'm at extension 11. The call is free. I'm 
> not hiding.  800 279 4570
>
>
> If they had have called me they would find out we still sell, build, and 
> use index hubs in our CNC systems, pilaster dogs as well.  We still build 
> and stock many of the  gears and gear sets, spit nuts and other items that 
> go missing or wear out over time.  We sell them to people that buy second 
> hand OMs at yard and estate sales quite often.  Of course if these new 
> owners were to join the misinformed on this google group and believed the 
> nonsense that they read they may not been able to buy these items because 
> they believed the myth that we don't provide any customer service for our 
> OM's and they would not have called and receive the parts they needed.  You 
> can see why I don't encourage people to join the group. Of course, it is 
> true, that we no longer stock many of the parts required to build an OM 
> from scratch.  If you back your car over your OM in the garage I'm afraid I 
> won't be able to help you. 
>
>
> Until I read through this latest thread I might have been willing to 
> allow someone to use my designs and drawings to build replacement parts for 
> OM owners but I can't see the point of working with people as misinformed, 
> ignorant, arrogant, and unwilling to investigate to find the truth as those 
> that were commenting on the thread today. If the google group forum isn't a 
> place to find the facts then what exactly is it's purpose?  As I pointed 
> out in our conversation this morning, many of the comments were made by 
> people who don't really want solutions, they don't want the truth, they 
> want to do damage.  
>
>
> The irony is that after inflicting as much damage as they can with their 
> ignorant comments they complain that I don't spend enough time and money 
> supporting them and they complain that I'm not reasonable.  After they put 
> in jeopardy the jobs and the future of the 20 families that work at Legacy 
> I am supposed to give them whatever they want.   
>
>
> A reasonable request to use my designs and drawings, made directly to me 
> not to others in the group, would have been carefully considered but how 
> many potential customers are going to read through this latest pile of 
> misinformation and pure crap and buy another brand CNC machine because they 
> were frightened off by these comments? I can't say, but it will happen.  
> Those making the ignorant and uninformed comments in this thread don't seem 
> to be able to connect the dots.  Damage Legacy and you damage all OM 
> owners. 
>
>
> Why should I work with individuals that can't make such a simple and 
> logical deduction?  Why do you allow them to comment on the forum?  This 
> type of blind ignorance tells to me that there is no future in working with 
> these people at all, however, it seems that there are only 4 or 5 without 
> the intelligence to connect the dots.  These same 4 or 5 are consistently 
> trying to do as much damage as possible without regard for the other OM 
> owners.  As long as they continue to use this google group as a public 
> platform I can't and I won't work with or support the rest of the group.  I 
> suggest that, for the sake of the group and all OM owners, it's time to 
> clean house. 
>
>
> Andy Anderson, Legacy Woodworking Machinery
>
>
>
>
>

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Re: A response from Andy Anderson Of Legacy Regarding Support.

[Bawdsey 64]

Very well put Joe!
>From the other side of the pond, please note that the young lady who is 
>marrying Harry is going to become a UK citizen.
She is a nice intelligent girl who will no doubt help Harry in his 
endeavours.
It is all go over here, we have have the Royal Navy providing the Guard at 
Buckingham Palace and Windsor Castle .
Cheers
Roger






From: 'joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills
Received: 28/11/2017 19:10:18 +00:00
To: Legacy Ornamental Mills
a few comments and responses  on this subject and perhaps a few more...and 
apologies for not commenting sooner...been a bit busy lately...exactly how 
accurate is it to say legacy no longer supports their older machines...they 
still sell those "high hats", split nuts, gears, drive dogs...granted, you can 
not buy rails, headstocks, etc., but how many really need those...and so many 
other companies do not supply parts for their old machines, like Powermatic, 
delta, Rockwell, sears, just to name a few...I am beginning to see andy's 
point, that there is a constant, negative point being made in this group 
towards legacy...ok, they ended their manufacturing of what we refer to as 
their older machines...why?...because the future is in CNC...you have an older 
legacy?...well, you will just have to make do with what they could give you, 
and/or some stuff from McMaster-carr...their machines are not that complex...  
just about any repair or mod could be done with just a bit of ingenuity...I 
have seen so many of this group do some very unique repairs and mods to their 
equipment, that I don't see what all the fuss is about...we should all be lucky 
that there are no pieces that were cast iron or aluminum... I have never seen a 
company give as much technical support as legacy has done with their 
customers...training videos, project videos, magazine publications, etcand 
it is understood that a number of people have had some bad experiences in 
dealing with them, even when they were in full support mode, back in the 
day...well, that's a shame and it should never have happened...but it did and 
let's all just move on...I could tell horror stories about a ford car 
dealership and their handling of customers, but it would serve no purpose...we 
will never get any assistance from legacy if we continue this 
negativity...carrying on...joe biunno








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Re: A response from Andy Anderson Of Legacy Regarding Support.

['joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills]

a few comments and responses  on this subject and perhaps a few more...and 
apologies for not commenting sooner...been a bit busy lately...exactly how 
accurate is it to say legacy no longer supports their older machines...they 
still sell those "high hats", split nuts, gears, drive dogs...granted, you 
can not buy rails, headstocks, etc., but how many really need those...and 
so many other companies do not supply parts for their old machines, like 
Powermatic, delta, Rockwell, sears, just to name a few...I am beginning to 
see andy's point, that there is a constant, negative point being made in 
this group towards legacy...ok, they ended their manufacturing of what we 
refer to as their older machines...why?...because the future is in 
CNC...you have an older legacy?...well, you will just have to make do with 
what they could give you, and/or some stuff from McMaster-carr...their 
machines are not that complex...  just about any repair or mod could be 
done with just a bit of ingenuity...I have seen so many of this group do 
some very unique repairs and mods to their equipment, that I don't see what 
all the fuss is about...we should all be lucky that there are no pieces 
that were cast iron or aluminum... I have never seen a company give as much 
technical support as legacy has done with their customers...training 
videos, project videos, magazine publications, etcand it is understood 
that a number of people have had some bad experiences in dealing with them, 
even when they were in full support mode, back in the day...well, that's a 
shame and it should never have happened...but it did and let's all just 
move on...I could tell horror stories about a ford car dealership and their 
handling of customers, but it would serve no purpose...we will never get 
any assistance from legacy if we continue this negativity...carrying 
on...joe biunno



>>

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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
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Re: A response from Andy Anderson Of Legacy Regarding Support.

[Richard Ellis]

Hi Roger
I went to the show at Harrogate, and saw the LOMs ( CNC ) working, very 
impressive . Wayne Mack the Legacy agent also spent time with me 
demonstrating an Axminster scroll saw, he was not selling them though. 
Anyway a very good demo, so good in fact that I went and bought one from 
Axminster the  EX-21 just had a play with it good fun.
Richard

On Monday, November 20, 2017 at 3:10:35 PM UTC, ITwoodwork wrote:
>
> Hi Michael
>
> Let me provide a possible reason that they don't do the East or West Coast 
> Shows.  Put simply it could be the ever increasing cost of booth space, 
> shipping, hotels etc. along with the reduction in the overall number of 
> shows. 
>
> We have had the same problem here in the UK, the number of shows have 
> decreased mainly due to the cost too the show organisers of hiring the show 
> venues. These charges have gone through the roof.
>
> I know Legacy have put on "show & tell sessions" with various associates 
> around the USA as they have done over here.   ​This comes back to how much 
> a company like Legacy can afford to spend on promotion. Producing their 
> in-house videos, which are of an excellent quality and informative, costs a 
> lot of money.
>
> Bottom line is that things have changed, be it for the better or the 
> worse, and that depends on your point of view. As someone who splashed the 
> cash on shows and I actually enjoyed  being there promoting my business I 
> have to say I miss it in retirement because it was great fun and I got to 
> meet lots of nice people.
>
> Regards from across the pond.
>
> Roger
>
> ​
>
>
> ​
> From: Michael Kratky
> Received: 20/11/2017 14:10:48 +00:00
> To: legacy-orna...@googlegroups.com 
>
> Charles,
>
> Don’t know about the “product” being started in 1970 as I bought my model 
> 1200 at a show in Long Island, NY in 2004 anyway I’m very much interested 
> in the Maverick CNC and have previously posted to the group if anyone had 
> one and what they thought about it and Legacy’s associated support but 
> until now never got a single response.
>
> Also, Legacy use to make the rounds at east coast woodworking shows so I 
> could be 1st hand informed about them but they pulled the plug on those 
> shows as well.  
>
>  
>
> Thank you for the vote of confidence on the Maverick and Legacy’s support.
>
> Michael K in NY
>
>  
>
> From: legacy-orna...@googlegroups.com  [mailto:
> legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com ] On Behalf Of Charles 
> Peel
> Sent: Friday, November 17, 2017 11:31 AM
> To: legacy-orna...@googlegroups.com 
> Subject: Re: A response from Andy Anderson Of Legacy Regarding Support.
>
>  
>
> I am in the group and own two ornamental mills and one legacy maverick 
> CNC. I have never had problems with service. Legacy staff in the past 
> worked with me to provide what I needed and I bought other items used. I 
> bought the Maverick because I like the company, I like the 5 axis 
> capability. I have been driving GMC trucks for going on 50 years. I have 
> enjoyed the advancements made and continue to buy their product. It would 
> be a little stupid to request they manufacture the same product I started 
> with in 1970. If you like 5 axis capability you need to check into there 
> new product line. 
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Nov 15, 2017, at 9:28 AM, Richard Ellis <rchrd@gmail.com 
> > wrote:
>
> I suppose there are inventors and salesmen, They probably do not go 
> together  . And secondly Manufactures often make more money out of spares, 
> The LOM 's I have don't require many, and if they do I can make them or get 
> someone local to make them.
>
> On Wednesday, November 15, 2017 at 4:47:53 AM UTC, Tim wrote:
>
>  
>
> I had a conversation with Andy Anderson of Legacy and he has asked me to 
> forward this email to the group.  
>
>  Forwarded Message 
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
> Dear Tim,
>
>  
>
> I can see the confusion caused by our statement but if you understand that 
> support, to us, means coaching and producing new training materials for a 
> product and of course manufacturing means we still build new OM's then it 
> becomes quite clear. I can see that a longer, wordier explanation could 
> have been used to tell the story but I'm sure that those determined to 
> complain would have found something in the longer explanation to complain 
> about too.  With a little effort say, a phone call to me, and the whole 
> story could have been told on the thread but telling the truth, getting the 
> whole story onto the forum, is not what some of those making comments on 
> the thread intended.   
>
> 

RE: A response from Andy Anderson Of Legacy Regarding Support.

[jwb764]

Legacy now works a different type of show, the shows they now go to are focused 
more to the professionals, the cabinets shops etc.I know one was in Vegas, and 
I think California.  In addition to these they do some remote locations, I 
think they use customers shops or schools.   I would call them and ask how you 
can see one in action and they can offer you some locations.


 Michael Kratky <krat...@roadrunner.com> wrote: 
> Charles, 
> 
> Don’t know about the “product” being started in 1970 as I bought my model 
> 1200 at a show in Long Island, NY in 2004 anyway I’m very much interested in 
> the Maverick CNC and have previously posted to the group if anyone had one 
> and what they thought about it and Legacy’s associated support but until now 
> never got a single response. 
> 
> Also, Legacy use to make the rounds at east coast woodworking shows so I 
> could be 1st hand informed about them but they pulled the plug on those shows 
> as well.  
> 
>  
> 
> Thank you for the vote of confidence on the Maverick and Legacy’s support.
> 
> Michael K in NY
> 
>  
> 
> From: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Charles Peel
> Sent: Friday, November 17, 2017 11:31 AM
> To: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: A response from Andy Anderson Of Legacy Regarding Support.
> 
>  
> 
> I am in the group and own two ornamental mills and one legacy maverick CNC. I 
> have never had problems with service. Legacy staff in the past worked with me 
> to provide what I needed and I bought other items used. I bought the Maverick 
> because I like the company, I like the 5 axis capability. I have been driving 
> GMC trucks for going on 50 years. I have enjoyed the advancements made and 
> continue to buy their product. It would be a little stupid to request they 
> manufacture the same product I started with in 1970. If you like 5 axis 
> capability you need to check into there new product line. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> 
> On Nov 15, 2017, at 9:28 AM, Richard Ellis <rchrd.ell...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I suppose there are inventors and salesmen, They probably do not go together  
> . And secondly Manufactures often make more money out of spares, The LOM 's I 
> have don't require many, and if they do I can make them or get someone local 
> to make them.
> 
> On Wednesday, November 15, 2017 at 4:47:53 AM UTC, Tim wrote:
> 
>  
> 
> I had a conversation with Andy Anderson of Legacy and he has asked me to 
> forward this email to the group.  
> 
>  Forwarded Message  
> 
>   
>   
>   
>   
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Dear Tim,
> 
>  
> 
> I can see the confusion caused by our statement but if you understand that 
> support, to us, means coaching and producing new training materials for a 
> product and of course manufacturing means we still build new OM's then it 
> becomes quite clear. I can see that a longer, wordier explanation could have 
> been used to tell the story but I'm sure that those determined to complain 
> would have found something in the longer explanation to complain about too.  
> With a little effort say, a phone call to me, and the whole story could have 
> been told on the thread but telling the truth, getting the whole story onto 
> the forum, is not what some of those making comments on the thread intended.  
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Some of the claims and statements made in the thread are incorrect and some 
> just not true and if any of these folks had an ounce of courage they would 
> have spoken to me instead of wasting their time and yours in an online 
> conversation with others that definitely don't have the answers either.  I 
> have an 800 number, I'm at extension 11. The call is free. I'm not hiding.  
> 800 279 4570
> 
>  
> 
> If they had have called me they would find out we still sell, build, and use 
> index hubs in our CNC systems, pilaster dogs as well.  We still build and 
> stock many of the  gears and gear sets, spit nuts and other items that go 
> missing or wear out over time.  We sell them to people that buy second hand 
> OMs at yard and estate sales quite often.  Of course if these new owners were 
> to join the misinformed on this google group and believed the nonsense that 
> they read they may not been able to buy these items because they believed the 
> myth that we don't provide any customer service for our OM's and they would 
> not have called and receive the parts they needed.  You can see why I don't 
> encourage people to join the group. Of course, it is true, that we no longer 
> sto

RE: A response from Andy Anderson Of Legacy Regarding Support.

[Bawdsey 64]

Hi Michael
Let me provide a possible reason that they don't do the East or West Coast 
Shows.  Put simply it could be the ever increasing cost of booth space, 
shipping, hotels etc. along with the reduction in the overall number of shows. 
We have had the same problem here in the UK, the number of shows have decreased 
mainly due to the cost too the show organisers of hiring the show venues. These 
charges have gone through the roof.
I know Legacy have put on "show & tell sessions" with various associates around 
the USA as they have done over here.   This comes back to how much a 
company like Legacy can afford to spend on promotion. Producing their in-house 
videos, which are of an excellent quality and informative, costs a lot of money.
Bottom line is that things have changed, be it for the better or the worse, and 
that depends on your point of view. As someone who splashed the cash on shows 
and I actually enjoyed  being there promoting my business I have to say I miss 
it in retirement because it was great fun and I got to meet lots of nice people.
Regards from across the pond.
Roger






From: Michael Kratky
Received: 20/11/2017 14:10:48 +00:00
To: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com
Charles,
Don’t know about the “product” being started in 1970 as I bought my model 1200 
at a show in Long Island, NY in 2004 anyway I’m very much interested in the 
Maverick CNC and have previously posted to the group if anyone had one and what 
they thought about it and Legacy’s associated support but until now never got a 
single response.
Also, Legacy use to make the rounds at east coast woodworking shows so I could 
be 1st hand informed about them but they pulled the plug on those shows as 
well.  
 
Thank you for the vote of confidence on the Maverick and Legacy’s support.
Michael K in NY
 
From: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Charles Peel
Sent: Friday, November 17, 2017 11:31 AM
To: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: A response from Andy Anderson Of Legacy Regarding Support.
 
I am in the group and own two ornamental mills and one legacy maverick CNC. I 
have never had problems with service. Legacy staff in the past worked with me 
to provide what I needed and I bought other items used. I bought the Maverick 
because I like the company, I like the 5 axis capability. I have been driving 
GMC trucks for going on 50 years. I have enjoyed the advancements made and 
continue to buy their product. It would be a little stupid to request they 
manufacture the same product I started with in 1970. If you like 5 axis 
capability you need to check into there new product line. 
Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 15, 2017, at 9:28 AM, Richard Ellis <rchrd.ell...@gmail.com 
[mailto:rchrd.ell...@gmail.com]> wrote:
I suppose there are inventors and salesmen, They probably do not go together  . 
And secondly Manufactures often make more money out of spares, The LOM 's I 
have don't require many, and if they do I can make them or get someone local to 
make them.

On Wednesday, November 15, 2017 at 4:47:53 AM UTC, Tim wrote:
 
I had a conversation with Andy Anderson of Legacy and he has asked me to 
forward this email to the group.  

 Forwarded Message 
 
 
 
 
Dear Tim,
 
I can see the confusion caused by our statement but if you understand that 
support, to us, means coaching and producing new training materials for a 
product and of course manufacturing means we still build new OM's then it 
becomes quite clear. I can see that a longer, wordier explanation could have 
been used to tell the story but I'm sure that those determined to complain 
would have found something in the longer explanation to complain about too.  
With a little effort say, a phone call to me, and the whole story could have 
been told on the thread but telling the truth, getting the whole story onto the 
forum, is not what some of those making comments on the thread intended.   
 
Some of the claims and statements made in the thread are incorrect and some 
just not true and if any of these folks had an ounce of courage they would have 
spoken to me instead of wasting their time and yours in an online conversation 
with others that definitely don't have the answers either.  I have an 800 
number, I'm at extension 11. The call is free. I'm not hiding.  800 279 4570
 
If they had have called me they would find out we still sell, build, and use 
index hubs in our CNC systems, pilaster dogs as well.  We still build and stock 
many of the  gears and gear sets, spit nuts and other items that go missing or 
wear out over time.  We sell them to people that buy second hand OMs at yard 
and estate sales quite often.  Of course if these new owners were to join the 
misinformed on this google group and believed the nonsense that they read they 
may not been able to buy these items because they believed the myth that we 
don't provide any cust

RE: A response from Andy Anderson Of Legacy Regarding Support.

[Michael Kratky]

Charles, 

Don’t know about the “product” being started in 1970 as I bought my model 1200 
at a show in Long Island, NY in 2004 anyway I’m very much interested in the 
Maverick CNC and have previously posted to the group if anyone had one and what 
they thought about it and Legacy’s associated support but until now never got a 
single response. 

Also, Legacy use to make the rounds at east coast woodworking shows so I could 
be 1st hand informed about them but they pulled the plug on those shows as 
well.  

 

Thank you for the vote of confidence on the Maverick and Legacy’s support.

Michael K in NY

 

From: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Charles Peel
Sent: Friday, November 17, 2017 11:31 AM
To: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: A response from Andy Anderson Of Legacy Regarding Support.

 

I am in the group and own two ornamental mills and one legacy maverick CNC. I 
have never had problems with service. Legacy staff in the past worked with me 
to provide what I needed and I bought other items used. I bought the Maverick 
because I like the company, I like the 5 axis capability. I have been driving 
GMC trucks for going on 50 years. I have enjoyed the advancements made and 
continue to buy their product. It would be a little stupid to request they 
manufacture the same product I started with in 1970. If you like 5 axis 
capability you need to check into there new product line. 

Sent from my iPhone


On Nov 15, 2017, at 9:28 AM, Richard Ellis <rchrd.ell...@gmail.com> wrote:

I suppose there are inventors and salesmen, They probably do not go together  . 
And secondly Manufactures often make more money out of spares, The LOM 's I 
have don't require many, and if they do I can make them or get someone local to 
make them.

On Wednesday, November 15, 2017 at 4:47:53 AM UTC, Tim wrote:

 

I had a conversation with Andy Anderson of Legacy and he has asked me to 
forward this email to the group.  

 Forwarded Message  






 

 

 

 

Dear Tim,

 

I can see the confusion caused by our statement but if you understand that 
support, to us, means coaching and producing new training materials for a 
product and of course manufacturing means we still build new OM's then it 
becomes quite clear. I can see that a longer, wordier explanation could have 
been used to tell the story but I'm sure that those determined to complain 
would have found something in the longer explanation to complain about too.  
With a little effort say, a phone call to me, and the whole story could have 
been told on the thread but telling the truth, getting the whole story onto the 
forum, is not what some of those making comments on the thread intended.   

 

Some of the claims and statements made in the thread are incorrect and some 
just not true and if any of these folks had an ounce of courage they would have 
spoken to me instead of wasting their time and yours in an online conversation 
with others that definitely don't have the answers either.  I have an 800 
number, I'm at extension 11. The call is free. I'm not hiding.  800 279 4570

 

If they had have called me they would find out we still sell, build, and use 
index hubs in our CNC systems, pilaster dogs as well.  We still build and stock 
many of the  gears and gear sets, spit nuts and other items that go missing or 
wear out over time.  We sell them to people that buy second hand OMs at yard 
and estate sales quite often.  Of course if these new owners were to join the 
misinformed on this google group and believed the nonsense that they read they 
may not been able to buy these items because they believed the myth that we 
don't provide any customer service for our OM's and they would not have called 
and receive the parts they needed.  You can see why I don't encourage people to 
join the group. Of course, it is true, that we no longer stock many of the 
parts required to build an OM from scratch.  If you back your car over your OM 
in the garage I'm afraid I won't be able to help you. 

 

Until I read through this latest thread I might have been willing to allow 
someone to use my designs and drawings to build replacement parts for OM owners 
but I can't see the point of working with people as misinformed, ignorant, 
arrogant, and unwilling to investigate to find the truth as those that were 
commenting on the thread today. If the google group forum isn't a place to find 
the facts then what exactly is it's purpose?  As I pointed out in our 
conversation this morning, many of the comments were made by people who don't 
really want solutions, they don't want the truth, they want to do damage.  

 

The irony is that after inflicting as much damage as they can with their 
ignorant comments they complain that I don't spend enough time and money 
supporting them and they complain th

Re: A response from Andy Anderson Of Legacy Regarding Support.

[russ veinot]

ok, I have now cooled off even to give a civil response to Andy's 
clarification,  as Curt said: "WHAT?!!?"

I am one of the first few to join this forum (in the first month?).  Art 
introduced me to it.  I was told it was a forum for Legacy owners to share 
info.  after joining, I noticed there weren't very many subscribers, maybe 
less than 10?  I ask Art about why not ask the Legacy Company to 
participate and maybe let their customers know about the forum.  He told me 
he had ask them about this when starting the forum.  according to him, 
they  not only would not do this they tried to discourage him from starting 
it.  When I ever added a comment to the forum about improvements he was 
always encouraging it.  I now believe that if Legacy has their way this 
forum would not exist.  if you think about the growth over the years,  I 
can't remember a single time someone has said they found this forum when 
they bought their Legacy, NOT ONE.  
I have, this year, put out what I think are several very helpful articles 
(videos) about the LOM and not one comment (words of encouragement) from 
"you know who".

I think I knew Art fairly well and I remember one of his most defining 
characteristics was he was directly honest and would say what he thought.  
I am also inflicted with this same direct honesty.  so I think that I have 
to say that the "story" that Art started this forum to sell CNC machines to 
OM owners, in my opinion, is not only a load of bologna (replace this with 
the word of your choice), it was cruel and shameful.  

one more thing,  about the "No Sales List", I find it laughable that the 
number of people alleged to have "yelled at a poor little 80 year old woman 
on the phone that he had to start this list.  I believe this list exist but 
I question as to who is on it and why.  I have done business with their 
customer service on several occasions and find them to be average.  the 
comment was made that they "monitor" this forum and maybe they would like 
to tell all if someone is on this list only because of what was said here.  
personally, I would wear this "disgrace" as a badge of honor.  

I only hope there are others here that remember Art in the same 
reverence that I do.
thanks
Russ

On Tuesday, November 14, 2017 at 10:47:53 PM UTC-6, Tim wrote:

>
> I had a conversation with Andy Anderson of Legacy and he has asked me to 
> forward this email to the group.  
>
>  Forwarded Message  
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear Tim,
>
>
> I can see the confusion caused by our statement but if you understand that 
> support, to us, means coaching and producing new training materials for a 
> product and of course manufacturing means we still build new OM's then it 
> becomes quite clear. I can see that a longer, wordier explanation could 
> have been used to tell the story but I'm sure that those determined to 
> complain would have found something in the longer explanation to complain 
> about too.  With a little effort say, a phone call to me, and the whole 
> story could have been told on the thread but telling the truth, getting the 
> whole story onto the forum, is not what some of those making comments on 
> the thread intended.   
>
>
> Some of the claims and statements made in the thread are incorrect and 
> some just not true and if any of these folks had an ounce of courage they 
> would have spoken to me instead of wasting their time and yours in an 
> online conversation with others that definitely don't have the answers 
> either.  I have an 800 number, I'm at extension 11. The call is free. I'm 
> not hiding.  800 279 4570
>
>
> If they had have called me they would find out we still sell, build, and 
> use index hubs in our CNC systems, pilaster dogs as well.  We still build 
> and stock many of the  gears and gear sets, spit nuts and other items that 
> go missing or wear out over time.  We sell them to people that buy second 
> hand OMs at yard and estate sales quite often.  Of course if these new 
> owners were to join the misinformed on this google group and believed the 
> nonsense that they read they may not been able to buy these items because 
> they believed the myth that we don't provide any customer service for our 
> OM's and they would not have called and receive the parts they needed.  You 
> can see why I don't encourage people to join the group. Of course, it is 
> true, that we no longer stock many of the parts required to build an OM 
> from scratch.  If you back your car over your OM in the garage I'm afraid I 
> won't be able to help you. 
>
>
> Until I read through this latest thread I might have been willing to 
> allow someone to use my designs and drawings to build replacement parts for 
> OM owners but I can't see the point of working with people as misinformed, 
> ignorant, arrogant, and unwilling to investigate to find the truth as those 
> that were commenting on the thread today. If the google group forum isn't a 
> place to find the 

Re: A response from Andy Anderson Of Legacy Regarding Support.

[Okla Mike (Liltwisted)]

If you were Rude, Crude and social unacceptable, then you know you are 
on it.  If you think you may be on it, kindness and apologies may be in 
order to complete an order. But if you are on the naughty list to stay, 
I hope you will send pictures of your barley twisted lump of coal.


Mike OK


On 11/19/2017 9:07 AM, jwb...@windstream.net wrote:

So Legacy has a Naughty list.  How can we find out if we are on it?





 'Curt George' via Legacy Ornamental Mills 
 wrote:

Good evening AndyI was not aware that Art was doing anything other then building his own 
machine for him self, This group was formed long before the CNC topic came up.But AS for 
myself.My Goal is and has always been to , "Try" the get the most out of the 
Legacy Ornamental Mill.
No apologizes are necessary to me, I am glad that there is no longer a 
conflict/ misunderstands here.
Again I thank you for clearing up the confusion. and hope to start a new 
page... water under the bridge so to speak.
Have a good night.C.A.G.

 On Thursday, November 16, 2017 8:03 PM, Andy Anderson 
 wrote:
  


  Curt,I didn't mention Art's name before, he has passed beyond all of life's 
grief and trouble and should rest in peace, but since you bring it up I'll 
respond.  Art did design and sell a CNC system.  I can't say how successful he 
was but I was contacted by many of my loyal OM customers to inform me that he 
had contacted them and tried to sell them a CNC.  Since we were also selling a 
CNC system at that time they felt the need to tell me about it.  Their only 
contact with Art was through this group so it isn't too difficult to draw the 
conclusion.  If that was not your intent when you started the group then you 
have my apology but my facts are not WRONG.  I spoke to Art on several 
occasions about our conflict.  These are facts, you may not be aware of them or 
part of the disinformation campaign but I am not wrong on this.  Many people 
thought highly of Art and I wouldn't have brought this up if you hadn't made 
the claim that I was trying to misinform the group.Again, I apologize if you 
were caught in the cross-fire but you can only speak to your own actions and 
intents and not to the actions and intents of others.  Let's let the matter and 
Art rest.Andy

On Tuesday, November 14, 2017 at 9:47:53 PM UTC-7, Tim wrote:
   
   I had a conversation with Andy Anderson of Legacy and he has asked me to forward this email to the group.
  
   Forwarded Message 

|
   |
   |
|
   |
   |
|
   |
   |
|
   |
   |

  
  
  
  
   
   Dear Tim,

   I can see the confusion caused by our statement but if you understand that 
support, to us, means coaching and producing new training materials for a 
product and of course manufacturing means we still build new OM's then it 
becomes quite clear. I can see that a longer, wordier explanation could have 
been used to tell the story but I'm sure that those determined to complain 
would have found something in the longer explanation to complain about too.  
With a little effort say, a phone call to me, and the whole story could have 
been told on the thread but telling the truth, getting the whole story onto the 
forum, is not what some of those making comments on the thread intended.
   Some of the claims and statements made in the thread are incorrect and some 
just not true and if any of these folks had an ounce of courage they would have 
spoken to me instead of wasting their time and yours in an online conversation 
with others that definitely don't have the answers either.  I have an 800 
number, I'm at extension 11. The call is free. I'm not hiding.  800 279 4570
   If they had have called me they would find out we still sell, build, and use 
index hubs in our CNC systems, pilaster dogs as well.  We still build and stock 
many of the  gears and gear sets, spit nuts and other items that go missing or 
wear out over time.  We sell them to people that buy second hand OMs at yard 
and estate sales quite often.  Of course if these new owners were to join the 
misinformed on this google group and believed the nonsense that they read they 
may not been able to buy these items because they believed the myth that we 
don't provide any customer service for our OM's and they would not have called 
and receive the  parts they needed.  You can see why I don't encourage people 
to join the group. Of course, it is true, that we no longer stock many of the 
parts required to build an OM from scratch.  If you back your car over your OM 
in the garage I'm afraid I won't be able to help you.
   Until I read through this latest thread I might have been willing to allow 
someone to use my designs and drawings to build replacement parts for OM owners 
but I can't see the point of working with people as misinformed, ignorant, 
arrogant, and unwilling to investigate to find the truth as those that were 
commenting on the thread today. If the 

Re: A response from Andy Anderson Of Legacy Regarding Support.

[jwb764]

So Legacy has a Naughty list.  How can we find out if we are on it?





 'Curt George' via Legacy Ornamental Mills 
 wrote: 
> Good evening AndyI was not aware that Art was doing anything other then 
> building his own machine for him self, This group was formed long before the 
> CNC topic came up.But AS for myself.My Goal is and has always been to , "Try" 
> the get the most out of the Legacy Ornamental Mill.
> No apologizes are necessary to me, I am glad that there is no longer a 
> conflict/ misunderstands here.
> Again I thank you for clearing up the confusion. and hope to start a new 
> page... water under the bridge so to speak.
> Have a good night.C.A.G. 
> 
> On Thursday, November 16, 2017 8:03 PM, Andy Anderson 
>  wrote:
>  
> 
>  Curt,I didn't mention Art's name before, he has passed beyond all of life's 
> grief and trouble and should rest in peace, but since you bring it up I'll 
> respond.  Art did design and sell a CNC system.  I can't say how successful 
> he was but I was contacted by many of my loyal OM customers to inform me that 
> he had contacted them and tried to sell them a CNC.  Since we were also 
> selling a CNC system at that time they felt the need to tell me about it.  
> Their only contact with Art was through this group so it isn't too difficult 
> to draw the conclusion.  If that was not your intent when you started the 
> group then you have my apology but my facts are not WRONG.  I spoke to Art on 
> several occasions about our conflict.  These are facts, you may not be aware 
> of them or part of the disinformation campaign but I am not wrong on this.  
> Many people thought highly of Art and I wouldn't have brought this up if you 
> hadn't made the claim that I was trying to misinform the group.Again, I 
> apologize if you were caught in the cross-fire but you can only speak to your 
> own actions and intents and not to the actions and intents of others.  Let's 
> let the matter and Art rest.Andy 
> 
> On Tuesday, November 14, 2017 at 9:47:53 PM UTC-7, Tim wrote:
>   
>   I had a conversation with Andy Anderson of Legacy and he has asked me to 
> forward this email to the group.  
>  
>   Forwarded Message  
> | 
>   | 
>   |
> | 
>   | 
>   |
> | 
>   | 
>   |
> | 
>   | 
>   |
> 
>  
>  
>  
>  
>   
>   Dear Tim, 
>   I can see the confusion caused by our statement but if you understand that 
> support, to us, means coaching and producing new training materials for a 
> product and of course manufacturing means we still build new OM's then it 
> becomes quite clear. I can see that a longer, wordier explanation could have 
> been used to tell the story but I'm sure that those determined to complain 
> would have found something in the longer explanation to complain about too.  
> With a little effort say, a phone call to me, and the whole story could have 
> been told on the thread but telling the truth, getting the whole story onto 
> the forum, is not what some of those making comments on the thread intended.  
>   
>   Some of the claims and statements made in the thread are incorrect and some 
> just not true and if any of these folks had an ounce of courage they would 
> have spoken to me instead of wasting their time and yours in an online 
> conversation with others that definitely don't have the answers either.  I 
> have an 800 number, I'm at extension 11. The call is free. I'm not hiding.  
> 800 279 4570 
>   If they had have called me they would find out we still sell, build, and 
> use index hubs in our CNC systems, pilaster dogs as well.  We still build and 
> stock many of the  gears and gear sets, spit nuts and other items that go 
> missing or wear out over time.  We sell them to people that buy second hand 
> OMs at yard and estate sales quite often.  Of course if these new owners were 
> to join the misinformed on this google group and believed the nonsense that 
> they read they may not been able to buy these items because they believed the 
> myth that we don't provide any customer service for our OM's and they would 
> not have called and receive the  parts they needed.  You can see why I don't 
> encourage people to join the group. Of course, it is true, that we no longer 
> stock many of the parts required to build an OM from scratch.  If you back 
> your car over your OM in the garage I'm afraid I won't be able to help you.  
>   Until I read through this latest thread I might have been willing to allow 
> someone to use my designs and drawings to build replacement parts for OM 
> owners but I can't see the point of working with people as misinformed, 
> ignorant, arrogant, and unwilling to investigate to find the truth as those 
> that were commenting on the thread today. If the google group forum isn't a 
> place to find the facts then what exactly is it's purpose?  As I pointed out 
> in our conversation this morning, many of the comments were made 

Re: A response from Andy Anderson Of Legacy Regarding Support.

['Curt George' via Legacy Ornamental Mills]

Hello CharlesI am not a computer type of person. but I can see the value of 
what the CNC world can produce, it is amazing what can be done...
Please keep us up to date with your projects and incites on YOUR Legacy. I am 
looking forward to hear all about your ventures.Our goal of this group is to 
learn and to grow,to become better then what we are today,  I see the easiest 
way to do that, is to share information . (techniques, methods,and ideas) This 
is where my focus is at. it doesn't matter where the info came form, if I can 
use it to grow, then its good stuff to me. ;-)Thank you.And Again Welcome to 
the group.C.A.G. 

On Friday, November 17, 2017 11:32 AM, Charles Peel  
wrote:
 

 I am in the group and own two ornamental mills and one legacy maverick CNC. I 
have never had problems with service. Legacy staff in the past worked with me 
to provide what I needed and I bought other items used. I bought the Maverick 
because I like the company, I like the 5 axis capability. I have been driving 
GMC trucks for going on 50 years. I have enjoyed the advancements made and 
continue to buy their product. It would be a little stupid to request they 
manufacture the same product I started with in 1970. If you like 5 axis 
capability you need to check into there new product line. 

Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 15, 2017, at 9:28 AM, Richard Ellis  wrote:


I suppose there are inventors and salesmen, They probably do not go together  . 
And secondly Manufactures often make more money out of spares, The LOM 's I 
have don't require many, and if they do I can make them or get someone local to 
make them.

On Wednesday, November 15, 2017 at 4:47:53 AM UTC, Tim wrote:
  
  I had a conversation with Andy Anderson of Legacy and he has asked me to 
forward this email to the group.  
 
  Forwarded Message  
| 
  | 
  |
| 
  | 
  |
| 
  | 
  |
| 
  | 
  |

 
 
 
 
  
  Dear Tim, 
  I can see the confusion caused by our statement but if you understand that 
support, to us, means coaching and producing new training materials for a 
product and of course manufacturing means we still build new OM's then it 
becomes quite clear. I can see that a longer, wordier explanation could have 
been used to tell the story but I'm sure that those determined to complain 
would have found something in the longer explanation to complain about too.  
With a little effort say, a phone call to me, and the whole story could have 
been told on the thread but telling the truth, getting the whole story onto the 
forum, is not what some of those making comments on the thread intended.    
  Some of the claims and statements made in the thread are incorrect and some 
just not true and if any of these folks had an ounce of courage they would have 
spoken to me instead of wasting their time and yours in an online conversation 
with others that definitely don't have the answers either.  I have an 800 
number, I'm at extension 11. The call is free. I'm not hiding.  800 279 4570 
  If they had have called me they would find out we still sell, build, and use 
index hubs in our CNC systems, pilaster dogs as well.  We still build and stock 
many of the  gears and gear sets, spit nuts and other items that go missing or 
wear out over time.  We sell them to people that buy second hand OMs at yard 
and estate sales quite often.  Of course if these new owners were to join the 
misinformed on this google group and believed the nonsense that they read they 
may not been able to buy these items because they believed the myth that we 
don't provide any customer service for our OM's and they would not have called 
and receive the  parts they needed.  You can see why I don't encourage people 
to join the group. Of course, it is true, that we no longer stock many of the 
parts required to build an OM from scratch.  If you back your car over your OM 
in the garage I'm afraid I won't be able to help you.  
  Until I read through this latest thread I might have been willing to allow 
someone to use my designs and drawings to build replacement parts for OM owners 
but I can't see the point of working with people as misinformed, ignorant, 
arrogant, and unwilling to investigate to find the truth as those that were 
commenting on the thread today. If the google group forum isn't a place to find 
the facts then what exactly is it's purpose?  As I pointed out in our 
conversation this morning, many of the comments were made by people who don't 
really want solutions, they don't want the truth, they want to do damage.   
  The irony is that after inflicting as much damage as they can with their 
ignorant comments they complain that I don't spend enough time and money 
supporting them and they complain that I'm not reasonable.  After they put in 
jeopardy the jobs and the future of the 20 families that work at Legacy I am 
supposed to give them whatever they want.    
  A reasonable request to use my designs and 

Re: A response from Andy Anderson Of Legacy Regarding Support.

[Charles Peel]

I am in the group and own two ornamental mills and one legacy maverick CNC. I 
have never had problems with service. Legacy staff in the past worked with me 
to provide what I needed and I bought other items used. I bought the Maverick 
because I like the company, I like the 5 axis capability. I have been driving 
GMC trucks for going on 50 years. I have enjoyed the advancements made and 
continue to buy their product. It would be a little stupid to request they 
manufacture the same product I started with in 1970. If you like 5 axis 
capability you need to check into there new product line. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 15, 2017, at 9:28 AM, Richard Ellis  wrote:
> 
> I suppose there are inventors and salesmen, They probably do not go together  
> . And secondly Manufactures often make more money out of spares, The LOM 's I 
> have don't require many, and if they do I can make them or get someone local 
> to make them.
> 
>> On Wednesday, November 15, 2017 at 4:47:53 AM UTC, Tim wrote:
>> 
>> I had a conversation with Andy Anderson of Legacy and he has asked me to 
>> forward this email to the group.  
>> 
>>  Forwarded Message 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Dear Tim,
>> 
>> 
>> I can see the confusion caused by our statement but if you understand that 
>> support, to us, means coaching and producing new training materials for a 
>> product and of course manufacturing means we still build new OM's then it 
>> becomes quite clear. I can see that a longer, wordier explanation could have 
>> been used to tell the story but I'm sure that those determined to complain 
>> would have found something in the longer explanation to complain about too.  
>> With a little effort say, a phone call to me, and the whole story could have 
>> been told on the thread but telling the truth, getting the whole story onto 
>> the forum, is not what some of those making comments on the thread intended. 
>>   
>> 
>> 
>> Some of the claims and statements made in the thread are incorrect and some 
>> just not true and if any of these folks had an ounce of courage they would 
>> have spoken to me instead of wasting their time and yours in an online 
>> conversation with others that definitely don't have the answers either.  I 
>> have an 800 number, I'm at extension 11. The call is free. I'm not hiding.  
>> 800 279 4570
>> 
>> 
>> If they had have called me they would find out we still sell, build, and use 
>> index hubs in our CNC systems, pilaster dogs as well.  We still build and 
>> stock many of the  gears and gear sets, spit nuts and other items that go 
>> missing or wear out over time.  We sell them to people that buy second hand 
>> OMs at yard and estate sales quite often.  Of course if these new owners 
>> were to join the misinformed on this google group and believed the nonsense 
>> that they read they may not been able to buy these items because they 
>> believed the myth that we don't provide any customer service for our OM's 
>> and they would not have called and receive the parts they needed.  You can 
>> see why I don't encourage people to join the group. Of course, it is true, 
>> that we no longer stock many of the parts required to build an OM from 
>> scratch.  If you back your car over your OM in the garage I'm afraid I won't 
>> be able to help you. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Until I read through this latest thread I might have been willing to allow 
>> someone to use my designs and drawings to build replacement parts for OM 
>> owners but I can't see the point of working with people as misinformed, 
>> ignorant, arrogant, and unwilling to investigate to find the truth as those 
>> that were commenting on the thread today. If the google group forum isn't a 
>> place to find the facts then what exactly is it's purpose?  As I pointed out 
>> in our conversation this morning, many of the comments were made by people 
>> who don't really want solutions, they don't want the truth, they want to do 
>> damage. 
>> 
>> 
>> The irony is that after inflicting as much damage as they can with their 
>> ignorant comments they complain that I don't spend enough time and money 
>> supporting them and they complain that I'm not reasonable.  After they put 
>> in jeopardy the jobs and the future of the 20 families that work at Legacy I 
>> am supposed to give them whatever they want.   
>> 
>> 
>> A reasonable request to use my designs and drawings, made directly to me not 
>> to others in the group, would have been carefully considered but how many 
>> potential customers are going to read through this latest pile of 
>> misinformation and pure crap and buy another brand CNC machine because they 
>> were frightened off by these comments? I can't say, but it will happen.  
>> Those making the ignorant and uninformed comments in this thread don't seem 
>> to be able to connect the dots.  Damage Legacy and you damage all OM owners.
>> 
>> 
>> Why should I work with 

Re: A response from Andy Anderson Of Legacy Regarding Support.

['Curt George' via Legacy Ornamental Mills]

Good evening AndyI was not aware that Art was doing anything other then 
building his own machine for him self, This group was formed long before the 
CNC topic came up.But AS for myself.My Goal is and has always been to , "Try" 
the get the most out of the Legacy Ornamental Mill.
No apologizes are necessary to me, I am glad that there is no longer a 
conflict/ misunderstands here.
Again I thank you for clearing up the confusion. and hope to start a new 
page... water under the bridge so to speak.
Have a good night.C.A.G. 

On Thursday, November 16, 2017 8:03 PM, Andy Anderson 
 wrote:
 

 Curt,I didn't mention Art's name before, he has passed beyond all of life's 
grief and trouble and should rest in peace, but since you bring it up I'll 
respond.  Art did design and sell a CNC system.  I can't say how successful he 
was but I was contacted by many of my loyal OM customers to inform me that he 
had contacted them and tried to sell them a CNC.  Since we were also selling a 
CNC system at that time they felt the need to tell me about it.  Their only 
contact with Art was through this group so it isn't too difficult to draw the 
conclusion.  If that was not your intent when you started the group then you 
have my apology but my facts are not WRONG.  I spoke to Art on several 
occasions about our conflict.  These are facts, you may not be aware of them or 
part of the disinformation campaign but I am not wrong on this.  Many people 
thought highly of Art and I wouldn't have brought this up if you hadn't made 
the claim that I was trying to misinform the group.Again, I apologize if you 
were caught in the cross-fire but you can only speak to your own actions and 
intents and not to the actions and intents of others.  Let's let the matter and 
Art rest.Andy 

On Tuesday, November 14, 2017 at 9:47:53 PM UTC-7, Tim wrote:
  
  I had a conversation with Andy Anderson of Legacy and he has asked me to 
forward this email to the group.  
 
  Forwarded Message  
| 
  | 
  |
| 
  | 
  |
| 
  | 
  |
| 
  | 
  |

 
 
 
 
  
  Dear Tim, 
  I can see the confusion caused by our statement but if you understand that 
support, to us, means coaching and producing new training materials for a 
product and of course manufacturing means we still build new OM's then it 
becomes quite clear. I can see that a longer, wordier explanation could have 
been used to tell the story but I'm sure that those determined to complain 
would have found something in the longer explanation to complain about too.  
With a little effort say, a phone call to me, and the whole story could have 
been told on the thread but telling the truth, getting the whole story onto the 
forum, is not what some of those making comments on the thread intended.    
  Some of the claims and statements made in the thread are incorrect and some 
just not true and if any of these folks had an ounce of courage they would have 
spoken to me instead of wasting their time and yours in an online conversation 
with others that definitely don't have the answers either.  I have an 800 
number, I'm at extension 11. The call is free. I'm not hiding.  800 279 4570 
  If they had have called me they would find out we still sell, build, and use 
index hubs in our CNC systems, pilaster dogs as well.  We still build and stock 
many of the  gears and gear sets, spit nuts and other items that go missing or 
wear out over time.  We sell them to people that buy second hand OMs at yard 
and estate sales quite often.  Of course if these new owners were to join the 
misinformed on this google group and believed the nonsense that they read they 
may not been able to buy these items because they believed the myth that we 
don't provide any customer service for our OM's and they would not have called 
and receive the  parts they needed.  You can see why I don't encourage people 
to join the group. Of course, it is true, that we no longer stock many of the 
parts required to build an OM from scratch.  If you back your car over your OM 
in the garage I'm afraid I won't be able to help you.  
  Until I read through this latest thread I might have been willing to allow 
someone to use my designs and drawings to build replacement parts for OM owners 
but I can't see the point of working with people as misinformed, ignorant, 
arrogant, and unwilling to investigate to find the truth as those that were 
commenting on the thread today. If the google group forum isn't a place to find 
the facts then what exactly is it's purpose?  As I pointed out in our 
conversation this morning, many of the comments were made by people who don't 
really want solutions, they don't want the truth, they want to do damage.   
  The irony is that after inflicting as much damage as they can with their 
ignorant comments they complain that I don't spend enough time and money 
supporting them and they complain that I'm not reasonable.  After they put in 
jeopardy the jobs and the 

Re: A response from Andy Anderson Of Legacy Regarding Support.

[Andy Anderson]

Curt,
I didn't mention Art's name before, he has passed beyond all of life's 
grief and trouble and should rest in peace, but since you bring it up I'll 
respond.  Art did design and sell a CNC system.  I can't say how successful 
he was but I was contacted by many of my loyal OM customers to inform me 
that he had contacted them and tried to sell them a CNC.  Since we were 
also selling a CNC system at that time they felt the need to tell me about 
it.  Their only contact with Art was through this group so it isn't too 
difficult to draw the conclusion.  If that was not your intent when you 
started the group then you have my apology but my facts are not WRONG.  I 
spoke to Art on several occasions about our conflict.  These are facts, you 
may not be aware of them or part of the disinformation campaign but I am 
not wrong on this.  Many people thought highly of Art and I wouldn't have 
brought this up if you hadn't made the claim that I was trying to misinform 
the group.
Again, I apologize if you were caught in the cross-fire but you can only 
speak to your own actions and intents and not to the actions and intents of 
others.  Let's let the matter and Art rest.
Andy
 

On Tuesday, November 14, 2017 at 9:47:53 PM UTC-7, Tim wrote:

>
> I had a conversation with Andy Anderson of Legacy and he has asked me to 
> forward this email to the group.  
>
>  Forwarded Message  
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear Tim,
>
>
> I can see the confusion caused by our statement but if you understand that 
> support, to us, means coaching and producing new training materials for a 
> product and of course manufacturing means we still build new OM's then it 
> becomes quite clear. I can see that a longer, wordier explanation could 
> have been used to tell the story but I'm sure that those determined to 
> complain would have found something in the longer explanation to complain 
> about too.  With a little effort say, a phone call to me, and the whole 
> story could have been told on the thread but telling the truth, getting the 
> whole story onto the forum, is not what some of those making comments on 
> the thread intended.   
>
>
> Some of the claims and statements made in the thread are incorrect and 
> some just not true and if any of these folks had an ounce of courage they 
> would have spoken to me instead of wasting their time and yours in an 
> online conversation with others that definitely don't have the answers 
> either.  I have an 800 number, I'm at extension 11. The call is free. I'm 
> not hiding.  800 279 4570
>
>
> If they had have called me they would find out we still sell, build, and 
> use index hubs in our CNC systems, pilaster dogs as well.  We still build 
> and stock many of the  gears and gear sets, spit nuts and other items that 
> go missing or wear out over time.  We sell them to people that buy second 
> hand OMs at yard and estate sales quite often.  Of course if these new 
> owners were to join the misinformed on this google group and believed the 
> nonsense that they read they may not been able to buy these items because 
> they believed the myth that we don't provide any customer service for our 
> OM's and they would not have called and receive the parts they needed.  You 
> can see why I don't encourage people to join the group. Of course, it is 
> true, that we no longer stock many of the parts required to build an OM 
> from scratch.  If you back your car over your OM in the garage I'm afraid I 
> won't be able to help you. 
>
>
> Until I read through this latest thread I might have been willing to 
> allow someone to use my designs and drawings to build replacement parts for 
> OM owners but I can't see the point of working with people as misinformed, 
> ignorant, arrogant, and unwilling to investigate to find the truth as those 
> that were commenting on the thread today. If the google group forum isn't a 
> place to find the facts then what exactly is it's purpose?  As I pointed 
> out in our conversation this morning, many of the comments were made by 
> people who don't really want solutions, they don't want the truth, they 
> want to do damage.  
>
>
> The irony is that after inflicting as much damage as they can with their 
> ignorant comments they complain that I don't spend enough time and money 
> supporting them and they complain that I'm not reasonable.  After they put 
> in jeopardy the jobs and the future of the 20 families that work at Legacy 
> I am supposed to give them whatever they want.   
>
>
> A reasonable request to use my designs and drawings, made directly to me 
> not to others in the group, would have been carefully considered but how 
> many potential customers are going to read through this latest pile of 
> misinformation and pure crap and buy another brand CNC machine because they 
> were frightened off by these comments? I can't say, but it will happen.  
> Those making the ignorant and uninformed comments in this thread don't seem 

Re: A response from Andy Anderson Of Legacy Regarding Support.

[russ veinot]

Curt,
I was also one of the first members and I only remember LOM owners 
joining.  all we were looking for was help to learn to use the LOM.  there 
was the only resource help available during that period of time.  I think 
someone has a very bad memory or vivid imagination.  never was there any 
conversations about replacing my LOM or anyone that didn't already own one.

Russ

On Tuesday, November 14, 2017 at 10:47:53 PM UTC-6, Tim wrote:

>
> I had a conversation with Andy Anderson of Legacy and he has asked me to 
> forward this email to the group.  
>
>  Forwarded Message  
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear Tim,
>
>
> I can see the confusion caused by our statement but if you understand that 
> support, to us, means coaching and producing new training materials for a 
> product and of course manufacturing means we still build new OM's then it 
> becomes quite clear. I can see that a longer, wordier explanation could 
> have been used to tell the story but I'm sure that those determined to 
> complain would have found something in the longer explanation to complain 
> about too.  With a little effort say, a phone call to me, and the whole 
> story could have been told on the thread but telling the truth, getting the 
> whole story onto the forum, is not what some of those making comments on 
> the thread intended.   
>
>
> Some of the claims and statements made in the thread are incorrect and 
> some just not true and if any of these folks had an ounce of courage they 
> would have spoken to me instead of wasting their time and yours in an 
> online conversation with others that definitely don't have the answers 
> either.  I have an 800 number, I'm at extension 11. The call is free. I'm 
> not hiding.  800 279 4570
>
>
> If they had have called me they would find out we still sell, build, and 
> use index hubs in our CNC systems, pilaster dogs as well.  We still build 
> and stock many of the  gears and gear sets, spit nuts and other items that 
> go missing or wear out over time.  We sell them to people that buy second 
> hand OMs at yard and estate sales quite often.  Of course if these new 
> owners were to join the misinformed on this google group and believed the 
> nonsense that they read they may not been able to buy these items because 
> they believed the myth that we don't provide any customer service for our 
> OM's and they would not have called and receive the parts they needed.  You 
> can see why I don't encourage people to join the group. Of course, it is 
> true, that we no longer stock many of the parts required to build an OM 
> from scratch.  If you back your car over your OM in the garage I'm afraid I 
> won't be able to help you. 
>
>
> Until I read through this latest thread I might have been willing to 
> allow someone to use my designs and drawings to build replacement parts for 
> OM owners but I can't see the point of working with people as misinformed, 
> ignorant, arrogant, and unwilling to investigate to find the truth as those 
> that were commenting on the thread today. If the google group forum isn't a 
> place to find the facts then what exactly is it's purpose?  As I pointed 
> out in our conversation this morning, many of the comments were made by 
> people who don't really want solutions, they don't want the truth, they 
> want to do damage.  
>
>
> The irony is that after inflicting as much damage as they can with their 
> ignorant comments they complain that I don't spend enough time and money 
> supporting them and they complain that I'm not reasonable.  After they put 
> in jeopardy the jobs and the future of the 20 families that work at Legacy 
> I am supposed to give them whatever they want.   
>
>
> A reasonable request to use my designs and drawings, made directly to me 
> not to others in the group, would have been carefully considered but how 
> many potential customers are going to read through this latest pile of 
> misinformation and pure crap and buy another brand CNC machine because they 
> were frightened off by these comments? I can't say, but it will happen.  
> Those making the ignorant and uninformed comments in this thread don't seem 
> to be able to connect the dots.  Damage Legacy and you damage all OM 
> owners. 
>
>
> Why should I work with individuals that can't make such a simple and 
> logical deduction?  Why do you allow them to comment on the forum?  This 
> type of blind ignorance tells to me that there is no future in working with 
> these people at all, however, it seems that there are only 4 or 5 without 
> the intelligence to connect the dots.  These same 4 or 5 are consistently 
> trying to do as much damage as possible without regard for the other OM 
> owners.  As long as they continue to use this google group as a public 
> platform I can't and I won't work with or support the rest of the group.  I 
> suggest that, for the sake of the group and all OM owners, it's time to 
> clean house. 
>
>
> Andy Anderson, 

Re: A response from Andy Anderson Of Legacy Regarding Support.

[Dexter Bland]

"I don't take or process phone orders.  The only time I'll end up on the 
phone with a customer is if he or she is a friend, or has a difficult 
question that someone else on the staff can't answer, or I end up on the 
phone with those customers that are rude, crude, abusive, curse, or have no 
manners."

I will address this comment as it seems directed at my criticism of 
Legacy not selling hubs to me. Andy, you did not answer the sales call nor 
did I ask to speak to you. Some lady took the call to the sales line 
and was pleasant. I was just asking to buy a few parts that were 
still listed on the web site but were told were no longer available. My 
call was passed along to you Andy, and you asked me if I was a second-hand 
mill buyer. When I answered yes, you then told me you would not sell me 
parts. Maybe you had a bad day, maybe you thought I was trying to buy 
something to copy and then sell, I don't know. After reading your response 
to the group, I kinda think that must have been what you thought. This 
conversation was probably 5-6 years ago, and you, have taken many more 
calls since then so not remembering this conversation would not surprise 
me. I was not rude nor did I cuss anyone as that is not my nature. Actually 
I was more stunned by your answer than anything. 

The only reason I brought up this issue in the first place was one 
commenter said he was needing/looking for hubs and the pilaster dogs. I was 
letting him know of my experience and to not count on being able to buy 
them from Legacy. If you have changed your mind on selling parts that you 
still make, great.

Sorry to bring this up, Tim and Curt. I did not wish to take away from the 
help this comment board supplies. There are loads of interesting and 
informative conversations here and hope it continues. There are several 
here that impress me with their creativity and ability. 
db


>

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Re: A response from Andy Anderson Of Legacy Regarding Support.

['Curt George' via Legacy Ornamental Mills]

HEY one min. here!"As to that agenda, for those new to this google group, you 
should know that it was founded but a competitor of Legacy's and his 
supporters.  They illegally used our name and product descriptions to lure 
people searching the web for "Legacy Ornamental Mills" into the group in order 
to discredit Legacy and steal our potential customers. Cowardly and unethical 
behavior indeed and ultimately ineffective.  These are the people calling our 
behavior into question and they are the most outspoken in your group. By the 
way, that company no longer exists buts its supporters continue on with their 
agenda."
WHAT! Art and I started this group, there was no competitors, but owners of 
the Legacy Ornamental Mill, who needed more support. I e-mailed over 400 people 
asking them if they wanted to help us learn and grow in there OWN woodworking,  
By the way of the using the Legacy,Ornamental, Mill.
Andy.  I am so very sorry, your information is so Very WRONG here. that I feel 
the need to correct the mistake before it runs to far.
I do agree that Manors are so very important,  And We have had a few people who 
were ask to stop posting.
Everyone is welcome to there own opinion, be it right or wrong (according to 
your own point of view.) I can agree to dis-agree, but slander and trolling  is 
NOT welcome here. I am glad to hear your point of view, and you are always 
welcome to post anything you like, but in this one case you are mistaken.Thank 
you ..C.A.G. 

On Wednesday, November 15, 2017 6:14 PM, Tim  wrote:
 

 Passing on another response from Andy...


I neglected to address one issue that I saw in the thread yesterday and I 
wanted to clarify a few things.  I don't take or process phone orders.  The 
only time I'll end up on the phone with a customer is if he or she is a friend, 
or has a difficult question that someone else on the staff can't answer, or I 
end up on the phone with those customers that are rude, crude, abusive, curse, 
or have no manners.  I've instructed the two women that answer the phone, my 
mom who is in her eighties, and my wife, that if they encounter this kind of 
behavior to send these calls directly to me.
Usually the offending caller realizes the error of his ways, apologizes to me 
and my staff, and we carry on as if nothing happened.  I realize that we all 
get frustrated and angry but most civilized people are embarrassed when the 
realize they've been harassing my 80 year old mother and calm down quickly. 
There are a handful of callers that are too arrogant or ignorant to back down 
and apologize.  I explain to these people that, as this is still a free 
country, I reserve the right not to do business with them and send them 
packing. 
I recognize some of the names in this thread as people on my "list".  Of course 
it's easier to claim that I won't sell you a particular item then to admit that 
you were an ass and treated the female members of my staff badly.  You don't 
want to tell the whole story just the part that fits the agenda your pushing.
As to that agenda, for those new to this google group, you should know that it 
was founded but a competitor of Legacy's and his supporters.  They illegally 
used our name and product descriptions to lure people searching the web for 
"Legacy Ornamental Mills" into the group in order to discredit Legacy and steal 
our potential customers. Cowardly and unethical behavior indeed and ultimately 
ineffective.  These are the people calling our behavior into question and they 
are the most outspoken in your group. By the way, that company no longer exists 
buts its supporters continue on with their agenda.
If Legacy were guilty of everything these folks claim we are then we would have 
been out of business long ago but we are not.  We are growing and developing 
new and better woodworking systems. Our products can be found in some of the 
finest companies in the world.  We've shipped machine into every corner of the 
world and if you will take the trouble to do a little research you will find 
that we have very happy customers.  We are not perfect, but we spend an awful 
lot of time and money supporting our customers.
In the 80's we pioneered the use of training project videos to teach people how 
to use our equipment. No other woodworking tool manufacturer in the world took 
the time or spent the money to produce this kind of training. An archive of 
these videos has been collected by Tim and one way we still support out 
customers by allowing this "Legacy owned" material to be distributed freely and 
many are available on YouTube.  Today we use YouTube to support our CNC 
customers.  We currently have more than 300 training videos online covering 
topics from 3d model design, CAD/CAM software, machine setup, tooling, 
clamping, and G-Code. Less than 10% of the videos we have produced are sales 
videos describing our products. Over 18,000 subscriber to our YouTube channel 
turn to Legacy 

Re: A response from Andy Anderson Of Legacy Regarding Support.

[Tom Dotta]

Hi Tim et al

I'm not a very active participant or user though I do have three mills. An
old steel rail machine bought from a cabinet shop, a 900 bought from Legacy
and a 1200 bought from a private individual. As Tim says above if Legacy is
monitoring the group it would seem little more effort (expense) to make a
list of what is available for purchase together with whom to contact there
to make the purchase. Licensing a reliable and willing person to make other
replacement parts seems reasonable. Though personally disappointed in what
has been represented as Legacy's position re the manual machines it seems
just a bit of give on both sides could resolve the issues to the benefit of
all. I'm sure neither side truly wants the other to fail.

CheersTom Dotta

On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 7:59 AM, Tim Krause  wrote:

> Russ, there's no need to forward your message as the groups messages are
> being monitored by Legacy.
>
> -Tim
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Legacy Ornamental Mills" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills@
> googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/
> group/legacy-ornamental-mills.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>

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RE: A response from Andy Anderson Of Legacy Regarding Support.

[Tim Krause]

Russ, there's no need to forward your message as the groups messages are being 
monitored by Legacy.

-Tim 

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Re: A response from Andy Anderson Of Legacy Regarding Support.

[Richard Ellis]

I suppose there are inventors and salesmen, They probably do not go 
together  . And secondly Manufactures often make more money out of spares, 
The LOM 's I have don't require many, and if they do I can make them or get 
someone local to make them.

On Wednesday, November 15, 2017 at 4:47:53 AM UTC, Tim wrote:
>
>
> I had a conversation with Andy Anderson of Legacy and he has asked me to 
> forward this email to the group.  
>
>  Forwarded Message  
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear Tim,
>
>
> I can see the confusion caused by our statement but if you understand that 
> support, to us, means coaching and producing new training materials for a 
> product and of course manufacturing means we still build new OM's then it 
> becomes quite clear. I can see that a longer, wordier explanation could 
> have been used to tell the story but I'm sure that those determined to 
> complain would have found something in the longer explanation to complain 
> about too.  With a little effort say, a phone call to me, and the whole 
> story could have been told on the thread but telling the truth, getting the 
> whole story onto the forum, is not what some of those making comments on 
> the thread intended.   
>
>
> Some of the claims and statements made in the thread are incorrect and 
> some just not true and if any of these folks had an ounce of courage they 
> would have spoken to me instead of wasting their time and yours in an 
> online conversation with others that definitely don't have the answers 
> either.  I have an 800 number, I'm at extension 11. The call is free. I'm 
> not hiding.  800 279 4570
>
>
> If they had have called me they would find out we still sell, build, and 
> use index hubs in our CNC systems, pilaster dogs as well.  We still build 
> and stock many of the  gears and gear sets, spit nuts and other items that 
> go missing or wear out over time.  We sell them to people that buy second 
> hand OMs at yard and estate sales quite often.  Of course if these new 
> owners were to join the misinformed on this google group and believed the 
> nonsense that they read they may not been able to buy these items because 
> they believed the myth that we don't provide any customer service for our 
> OM's and they would not have called and receive the parts they needed.  You 
> can see why I don't encourage people to join the group. Of course, it is 
> true, that we no longer stock many of the parts required to build an OM 
> from scratch.  If you back your car over your OM in the garage I'm afraid I 
> won't be able to help you. 
>
>
> Until I read through this latest thread I might have been willing to 
> allow someone to use my designs and drawings to build replacement parts for 
> OM owners but I can't see the point of working with people as misinformed, 
> ignorant, arrogant, and unwilling to investigate to find the truth as those 
> that were commenting on the thread today. If the google group forum isn't a 
> place to find the facts then what exactly is it's purpose?  As I pointed 
> out in our conversation this morning, many of the comments were made by 
> people who don't really want solutions, they don't want the truth, they 
> want to do damage.  
>
>
> The irony is that after inflicting as much damage as they can with their 
> ignorant comments they complain that I don't spend enough time and money 
> supporting them and they complain that I'm not reasonable.  After they put 
> in jeopardy the jobs and the future of the 20 families that work at Legacy 
> I am supposed to give them whatever they want.   
>
>
> A reasonable request to use my designs and drawings, made directly to me 
> not to others in the group, would have been carefully considered but how 
> many potential customers are going to read through this latest pile of 
> misinformation and pure crap and buy another brand CNC machine because they 
> were frightened off by these comments? I can't say, but it will happen.  
> Those making the ignorant and uninformed comments in this thread don't seem 
> to be able to connect the dots.  Damage Legacy and you damage all OM 
> owners. 
>
>
> Why should I work with individuals that can't make such a simple and 
> logical deduction?  Why do you allow them to comment on the forum?  This 
> type of blind ignorance tells to me that there is no future in working with 
> these people at all, however, it seems that there are only 4 or 5 without 
> the intelligence to connect the dots.  These same 4 or 5 are consistently 
> trying to do as much damage as possible without regard for the other OM 
> owners.  As long as they continue to use this google group as a public 
> platform I can't and I won't work with or support the rest of the group.  I 
> suggest that, for the sake of the group and all OM owners, it's time to 
> clean house. 
>
>
> Andy Anderson, Legacy Woodworking Machinery
>
>
>
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Legacy 

RE: A response from Andy Anderson Of Legacy Regarding Support.

[Russ Veinot]

Tim, please forward this to Andy,

 

As a LOM owner for more than a decade, one of the first members of this group, 
and as a Youtube content provider about the LOM (makes me sound important, 
doesn’t it :>), I think I am entitled to an opinion without hiding behind 
“extension 11” or a third party email.  If Andy has something to say about 
individuals here he should speak out himself.  I take exception to his saying 
that “some” are not telling truths.  I defy him to show me (and everyone here) 
where “I” have made an incorrect statement about Legacy or about the LOM 
machine either on this forum or on any of my videos.  Lumping all of us into 
one negative statement through a third party says it all about how he has 
treated this group (and me as an individual customer) over the years.

 

His company should have had (why haven’t he?) an active (and positive) 
participant in this group to help us understand issues  and suggestions talked 
about here a long time ago.  I for one would love a (fair and balanced) rep 
from the company participating here, otherwise I say (again) Good Riddance and 
keep your “second party” opinions to yourself.

 

Russ

 

 

From: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim Krause
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 10:48 PM
To: Legacy Group
Subject: A response from Andy Anderson Of Legacy Regarding Support.

 

 

I had a conversation with Andy Anderson of Legacy and he has asked me to 
forward this email to the group.  

 Forwarded Message  






 

 

 

 

Dear Tim,

 

I can see the confusion caused by our statement but if you understand that 
support, to us, means coaching and producing new training materials for a 
product and of course manufacturing means we still build new OM's then it 
becomes quite clear. I can see that a longer, wordier explanation could have 
been used to tell the story but I'm sure that those determined to complain 
would have found something in the longer explanation to complain about too.  
With a little effort say, a phone call to me, and the whole story could have 
been told on the thread but telling the truth, getting the whole story onto the 
forum, is not what some of those making comments on the thread intended.   

 

Some of the claims and statements made in the thread are incorrect and some 
just not true and if any of these folks had an ounce of courage they would have 
spoken to me instead of wasting their time and yours in an online conversation 
with others that definitely don't have the answers either.  I have an 800 
number, I'm at extension 11. The call is free. I'm not hiding.  800 279 4570

 

If they had have called me they would find out we still sell, build, and use 
index hubs in our CNC systems, pilaster dogs as well.  We still build and stock 
many of the  gears and gear sets, spit nuts and other items that go missing or 
wear out over time.  We sell them to people that buy second hand OMs at yard 
and estate sales quite often.  Of course if these new owners were to join the 
misinformed on this google group and believed the nonsense that they read they 
may not been able to buy these items because they believed the myth that we 
don't provide any customer service for our OM's and they would not have called 
and receive the parts they needed.  You can see why I don't encourage people to 
join the group. Of course, it is true, that we no longer stock many of the 
parts required to build an OM from scratch.  If you back your car over your OM 
in the garage I'm afraid I won't be able to help you. 

 

Until I read through this latest thread I might have been willing to allow 
someone to use my designs and drawings to build replacement parts for OM owners 
but I can't see the point of working with people as misinformed, ignorant, 
arrogant, and unwilling to investigate to find the truth as those that were 
commenting on the thread today. If the google group forum isn't a place to find 
the facts then what exactly is it's purpose?  As I pointed out in our 
conversation this morning, many of the comments were made by people who don't 
really want solutions, they don't want the truth, they want to do damage.  

 

The irony is that after inflicting as much damage as they can with their 
ignorant comments they complain that I don't spend enough time and money 
supporting them and they complain that I'm not reasonable.  After they put in 
jeopardy the jobs and the future of the 20 families that work at Legacy I am 
supposed to give them whatever they want.   

 

A reasonable request to use my designs and drawings, made directly to me not to 
others in the group, would have been carefully considered but how many 
potential customers are going to read through this latest pile of 
misinformation and pure crap and buy another brand CNC machine because they 
were frightened off by these 

Re: A response from Andy Anderson Of Legacy Regarding Support.

[Richard Ellis]

Tim
My Father used to say to me " Read mark learn and inwardly digest " I have 
read the message from Andy and my opinion  of Legacy does not alter, The 
emails I sent re parts were never answered, Once bitten twice shy. Oh! well 
I Have indigestion now???!!! 
I manage quite well now and if I need help I look to this group, or members 
of the group by private email, they always get answered and quickly too
Sorry Andy but I hope the CnC's keep your company afloat. 
Richard

On Wednesday, November 15, 2017 at 4:47:53 AM UTC, Tim wrote:
>
>
> I had a conversation with Andy Anderson of Legacy and he has asked me to 
> forward this email to the group.  
>
>  Forwarded Message  
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> Dear Tim,
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> I can see the confusion caused by our statement but if you understand that 
> support, to us, means coaching and producing new training materials for a 
> product and of course manufacturing means we still build new OM's then it 
> becomes quite clear. I can see that a longer, wordier explanation could 
> have been used to tell the story but I'm sure that those determined to 
> complain would have found something in the longer explanation to complain 
> about too.  With a little effort say, a phone call to me, and the whole 
> story could have been told on the thread but telling the truth, getting the 
> whole story onto the forum, is not what some of those making comments on 
> the thread intended.   
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> Some of the claims and statements made in the thread are incorrect and 
> some just not true and if any of these folks had an ounce of courage they 
> would have spoken to me instead of wasting their time and yours in an 
> online conversation with others that definitely don't have the answers 
> either.  I have an 800 number, I'm at extension 11. The call is free. I'm 
> not hiding.  800 279 4570
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> If they had have called me they would find out we still sell, build, and 
> use index hubs in our CNC systems, pilaster dogs as well.  We still build 
> and stock many of the  gears and gear sets, spit nuts and other items that 
> go missing or wear out over time.  We sell them to people that buy second 
> hand OMs at yard and estate sales quite often.  Of course if these new 
> owners were to join the misinformed on this google group and believed the 
> nonsense that they read they may not been able to buy these items because 
> they believed the myth that we don't provide any customer service for our 
> OM's and they would not have called and receive the parts they needed.  You 
> can see why I don't encourage people to join the group. Of course, it is 
> true, that we no longer stock many of the parts required to build an OM 
> from scratch.  If you back your car over your OM in the garage I'm afraid I 
> won't be able to help you. 
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> Until I read through this latest thread I might have been willing to 
> allow someone to use my designs and drawings to build replacement parts for 
> OM owners but I can't see the point of working with people as misinformed, 
> ignorant, arrogant, and unwilling to investigate to find the truth as those 
> that were commenting on the thread today. If the google group forum isn't a 
> place to find the facts then what exactly is it's purpose?  As I pointed 
> out in our conversation this morning, many of the comments were made by 
> people who don't really want solutions, they don't want the truth, they 
> want to do damage.  
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> The irony is that after inflicting as much damage as they can with their 
> ignorant comments they complain that I don't spend enough time and money 
> supporting them and they complain that I'm not reasonable.  After they put 
> in jeopardy the jobs and the future of the 20 families that work at Legacy 
> I am supposed to give them whatever they want.   
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> A reasonable request to use my designs and drawings, made directly to me 
> not to others in the group, would have been carefully considered but how 
> many potential customers are going to read through this latest pile of 
> misinformation and pure crap and buy another brand CNC machine because they 
> were frightened off by these comments? I can't say, but it will happen.  
> Those making the ignorant and uninformed comments in this thread don't seem 
> to be able to connect the dots.  Damage Legacy and you damage all OM 
> owners. 
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> Why should I work with individuals that can't make such a simple and 
> logical deduction?  Why do you allow them to comment on the forum?  This 
> type of blind ignorance tells to me that there is no future in working with 
> these people at all, however, it seems that there are only 4 or 5 without 
> the intelligence to connect the dots.  These same 4 or 5 are consistently 
> trying to do as much damage as possible without regard for the other OM 
> owners.  As long as they continue to use this google group as a public 
> platform I can't and I won't work with or support the rest of the group.  I 
> suggest