Re: [LegacyUG] How do I enter English locations in Legacy
Thanks Cathy and I have already signed up. I've watched her in other Webinars - she is so very knowledgeable. On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 8:57 PM, Cathy Pinner wrote: > Linda, > > You're entering English research in the more difficult time period pre > civil registration. There's a webinar coming up on 27 April which you > should watch. > > http://familytreewebinars.com/webinar_details.php?webinar_id=401 > > England and Wales - Rummaging in the Parish Chests > by Kirsty Gray | Intermediate | England | Wales | Church > Records | > > The parish registers of baptisms, marriages and burials in England and > Wales give many genealogical clues to help build a family tree. Kirsty Gray > also highlights other documents kept by the parish, the diocese and the > archdeaconry and the invaluable information which can be gleaned about the > lives of our ancestors. > > There is also a free webinar on using FindMyPast. > http://familytreewebin ars.com/download.php?webinar_id=403 > Depending on which counties your ancestors lived in, FindMyPast is > invaluable as it has the Parish Register images. Ancestry is invaluable for > other counties for which it has the images. I have to have both. > > Cathy > > Linda Greethurst wrote: > > > Thank you everyone for the explanations and I really like the samples. > I am new to research in England - just getting started. Lots of > flexibility over the years, isn't there. Much studying and research > on the history is ahead before I can really do more accurate genealogy > data entry. I have printed off all the notes for closer study. I had > seen discussion on locations but not specifically for England. Thanks > again for taking the time to answer my questions so positively. I am > beginning to see why I can't find some of the ancestors - I'm probably > looking in the wrong place, wron g record set. > Linda > > > -- > > LegacyUserGroup mailing list > LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com > To manage your subscription and unsubscribe > http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com > Archives at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ > > -- LegacyUserGroup mailing list LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com To manage your subscription and unsubscribe http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com Archives at: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/
Re: [LegacyUG] How do I enter English locations in Legacy
On 13/04/2016 03:51, Steve Hayes wrote: What I'm not sure of is when places like Brixton (or Deptford, mentioned by the OP) ceased to be thought of as part of a county and just became "Brixton, London, England. http://www.genealogyinengland.com/Information/londonboroughs.htm is quite useful. -- Jenny M Benson -- LegacyUserGroup mailing list LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com To manage your subscription and unsubscribe http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com Archives at: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/
Re: [LegacyUG] How do I enter English locations in Legacy
On 12 Apr 2016 at 20:03, Jenny M Benson wrote: > On 12/04/2016 18:56, LizDennis wrote: > > I only use RD (Registration District) etc in sourcing my document, not > > sure how you could incorporate that into an "address" that's just the > > place the event was "registered". > > It is not an address, as such, but as a Location it is not much more > vague than the name of a town and is better than nothing at all if it's > the only information you have. Vital Events are (or should be) > registered in the District in which they take place, so it is quite > acceptable to say that someone was born, married or died in "XYZ > Registration District." Where the alternative is simply to use the name of the county, then I use the registration district, as it is more precide than the country alone. Someone sent me a family tree recently where large numbers of family members were shown as born/married in "Lambeth, Surrey, England", presumably from FreeBMD. From checking them, I discovered, from censuses, that some of those were born in Brixton, so I used that instead. I used to live in Steatham, worked at Brixton London Transport garage, and drove buses between Croydon and the Embankment, so I know many of the places within the Lambeth registration district, and didn't really think of them as "Lambeth", but even "Lambeth" is more precise than "London". What I'm not sure of is when places like Brixton (or Deptford, mentioned by the OP) ceased to be thought of as part of a county and just became "Brixton, London, England. I have a similar problem with South African places, where, however, dates are more precisely known. If it was before 31 May 1910, I put "Cape Town, Cape Colony". But if I want to transfer that from Legacy to FamilySearch it wants me to use a standardised place name, and all the ones it offers are anachronistic, and sometimes just plain wrong. That's not Legacy's fault, but rather a problem with FamilySearch where someone needs to do some research with gazetteers and get the place names right. Some of the standard place names do reflect the weird obsession with using exactly four place names, like "Durban, Durban, Natal, South Africa". That reminds me of: James James Morrison Morrison Wetherby George DuPree Took very good care of his mother though he was only three. > > Someone commented that "Registration District" would not mean anything > to an American, other than a genealogist. The same can be said of lots > of "foreign country terminology". If the products of my research were > being made available to another genealogist I would expect them to be > interested enough to find out what was meant by "Registration District." > If I was relating my family history to an interested non-genealogist I would > take the trouble to explain any important aspect with which they might not be > familiar. I don't think "someone might not know about that" is a good reason > for not using correct terminology. > > -- > Jenny M Benson > > -- > > LegacyUserGroup mailing list > LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com > To manage your subscription and unsubscribe > http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com > Archives at: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ -- Keep well, Steve Hayes Blog:http://hayesgreene.wordpress.com Web:http://www.khanya.org.za/famhist1.htm E-mail: sha...@dunelm.org.uk -- LegacyUserGroup mailing list LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com To manage your subscription and unsubscribe http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com Archives at: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/
Re: [LegacyUG] How do I enter English locations in Legacy
Linda, You're entering English research in the more difficult time period pre civil registration. There's a webinar coming up on 27 April which you should watch. http://familytreewebinars.com/webinar_details.php?webinar_id=401 England and Wales - Rummaging in the Parish Chests by Kirsty Gray | Intermediate | England | Wales | Church Records | The parish registers of baptisms, marriages and burials in England and Wales give many genealogical clues to help build a family tree. Kirsty Gray also highlights other documents kept by the parish, the diocese and the archdeaconry and the invaluable information which can be gleaned about the lives of our ancestors. There is also a free webinar on using FindMyPast. http://familytreewebinars.com/download.php?webinar_id=403 Depending on which counties your ancestors lived in, FindMyPast is invaluable as it has the Parish Register images. Ancestry is invaluable for other counties for which it has the images. I have to have both. Cathy Linda Greethurst wrote: Thank you everyone for the explanations and I really like the samples. I am new to research in England - just getting started. Lots of flexibility over the years, isn't there. Much studying and research on the history is ahead before I can really do more accurate genealogy data entry. I have printed off all the notes for closer study. I had seen discussion on locations but not specifically for England. Thanks again for taking the time to answer my questions so positively. I am beginning to see why I can't find some of the ancestors - I'm probably looking in the wrong place, wrong record set. Linda -- LegacyUserGroup mailing list LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com To manage your subscription and unsubscribe http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com Archives at: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/
Re: [LegacyUG] How do I enter English locations in Legacy
Thank you everyone for the explanations and I really like the samples. I am new to research in England - just getting started. Lots of flexibility over the years, isn't there. Much studying and research on the history is ahead before I can really do more accurate genealogy data entry. I have printed off all the notes for closer study. I had seen discussion on locations but not specifically for England. Thanks again for taking the time to answer my questions so positively. I am beginning to see why I can't find some of the ancestors - I'm probably looking in the wrong place, wrong record set. Linda -- LegacyUserGroup mailing list LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com To manage your subscription and unsubscribe http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com Archives at: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/
Re: [LegacyUG] How do I enter English locations in Legacy
Linda, You raise a couple of topics that have been discussed on this list many times. One is your first question: where to put the church name. People continue to offer several different opinions for both church/cemetery names and street addresses. Some shy away from the Legacy address fields and vital event notes, because they don’t show up well in reports or web pages. As you’ve seen, some add them to locations, as another field (5th field for a typical US location), and then sort their location lists from right to left. Some append church or cemetery names to the city/town/township name – e.g., Des Moines – Laurel Hill Cemetery, Polk, Iowa, USA, and then sort locations left to right. (Personally, I like the last one for church/cemetery names. I don’t capture many street addresses, and if I do, they go into a notes field. I am mainly interested in street addresses for residence/census events.) Ward From: Linda Greethurst Sent: Tuesday, 12 April, 2016 8:40 AM To: Mailing List for users of Legacy Family Tree software Subject: [LegacyUG] How do I enter English locations in Legacy This note pertains to a bit of history, geography and using Legacy to enter the info. I want to clearly designate the difference between the locations of church events such as baptism and burial and the civil events such as birth and death. In the US we have city (or township if referring to a farm), then county, then state, and then country. For example I would enter: Des Moines, Polk County, Iowa, USA. I use the word "County" as Des Moines city is not in Des Moines county. The name of the church itself would go into the notes under the baptism address, right? But I am confused with English locations; and I think I am mixing up church and civil juridictions. In England, isn't a "parish" a larger area than just a church building? Can there be more than one church/congregation within a "parish" jurisdiction? Example, I have a guy baptized on 12 Dec 1748 at St. Nicholas Parish, Shepperton, Middlesex, England, United Kingdom. That would be a church location for a church function. But what would be the birth location if he were born in Shepperton. He wasn't born in the church building itself as far as I know. Do I use the jurisdiction of "Hundred" (which I haven't really figured out yet). I don't know if he was born in the village of Shepperton, or on a rural residence. Then he died in 1816 in Deptford, Kent, England -so now I have just three places? Is there a smaller unit of an address to pinpoint where Deptford is than just Kent? Is "England" enough - properly? Do I need to include "United Kingdom"? I do not use "USA" for pre 1776 events - that is not a proper location. So the basic questions: What are the 4 crucial "names" go into the four slots for the civil birth location? What "names" go into the four slots for the church baptism location? What other "location" information would I need to include in the notes section? I am aware of the option to omit leading commas for easier reading to the non-genealogist. And I know I can use more than 4 slots, but then the sort order gets "out of sorts". Thus, what are the 4 vital names. Any suggestions or guidelines would be helpful. Thank you in advance. Linda -- LegacyUserGroup mailing list LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com To manage your subscription and unsubscribe http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com Archives at: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/
Re: [LegacyUG] How do I enter English locations in Legacy
On 12/04/2016 18:56, LizDennis wrote: I only use RD (Registration District) etc in sourcing my document, not sure how you could incorporate that into an "address" that's just the place the event was "registered". It is not an address, as such, but as a Location it is not much more vague than the name of a town and is better than nothing at all if it's the only information you have. Vital Events are (or should be) registered in the District in which they take place, so it is quite acceptable to say that someone was born, married or died in "XYZ Registration District." Someone commented that "Registration District" would not mean anything to an American, other than a genealogist. The same can be said of lots of "foreign country terminology". If the products of my research were being made available to another genealogist I would expect them to be interested enough to find out what was meant by "Registration District." If I was relating my family history to an interested non-genealogist I would take the trouble to explain any important aspect with which they might not be familiar. I don't think "someone might not know about that" is a good reason for not using correct terminology. -- Jenny M Benson -- LegacyUserGroup mailing list LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com To manage your subscription and unsubscribe http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com Archives at: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/
Re: [LegacyUG] How do I enter English locations in Legacy
To add to what everyone else has said, parishes change. They morph with irritating regularity and some times explains why people say they were born in 10 different places! Alright that may be over the top but not far. I have kin who say a different place in each census, fortunately after these years I have learned they all mean Malmesbury in one way or another Eliz Not Today and Not without a Fight (Anon) For all that has been, thanks. For all that will be, yes. (Dag Hammarskjold) On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 8:40 AM, Linda Greethurst wrote: > This note pertains to a bit of history, geography and using Legacy to enter > the info. I want to clearly designate the difference between the locations > of church events such as baptism and burial and the civil events such as > birth and death. > > In the US we have city (or township if referring to a farm), then county, > then state, and then country. For example I would enter: Des Moines, Polk > County, Iowa, USA. I use the word "County" as Des Moines city is not in Des > Moines county. The name of the church itself would go into the notes under > the baptism address, right? > > But I am confused with English locations; and I think I am mixing up church > and civil juridictions. In England, isn't a "parish" a larger area than > just a church building? Can there be more than one church/congregation > within a "parish" jurisdiction? > > Example, I have a guy baptized on 12 Dec 1748 at St. Nicholas Parish, > Shepperton, Middlesex, England, United Kingdom. > That would be a church location for a church function. But what would be > the birth location if he were born in Shepperton. He wasn't born in the > church building itself as far as I know. Do I use the jurisdiction of > "Hundred" (which I haven't really figured out yet). I don't know if he was > born in the village of Shepperton, or on a rural residence. > > Then he died in 1816 in Deptford, Kent, England -so now I have just three > places? Is there a smaller unit of an address to pinpoint where Deptford is > than just Kent? > > Is "England" enough - properly? Do I need to include "United Kingdom"? I > do not use "USA" for pre 1776 events - that is not a proper location. > > So the basic questions: What are the 4 crucial "names" go into the four > slots for the civil birth location? >What "names" go into the four slots > for the church baptism location? >What other "location" information > would I need to include in the notes section? > > I am aware of the option to omit leading commas for easier reading to the > non-genealogist. And I know I can use more than 4 slots, but then the sort > order gets "out of sorts". Thus, what are the 4 vital names. > > Any suggestions or guidelines would be helpful. Thank you in advance. > Linda > > -- > > LegacyUserGroup mailing list > LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com > To manage your subscription and unsubscribe > http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com > Archives at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ > -- LegacyUserGroup mailing list LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com To manage your subscription and unsubscribe http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com Archives at: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/
Re: [LegacyUG] How do I enter English locations in Legacy
I use the historical address given at the time on the certificate - my area changed, but it's still the address on my birth certificate. I only use RD (Registration District) etc in sourcing my document, not sure how you could incorporate that into an "address" that's just the place the event was "registered". "Parish church of", what's the name of the Parish church, where is it situated(?). I think if you want actual addresses (after 1837) I would get a copy of the certificate which usually gives the person's actual address. (BTW Lots of times the baptism record will give the person's address or location). An address for the church should be easy to find today online if you're trying to add the event location (marriage, baptism - no one is born in a church so wouldn't be considered birthplace). Lots of times children were born one place and taken elsewhere (i.e. another village) to be baptized. Englandif in England. Just my two bits! On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 8:14 AM, R G Strong-genes wrote: > Rural Delivery > > -Original Message- From: Brian L. Lightfoot > Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2016 10:57 AM > To: 'Legacy User Group' > > Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] How do I enter English locations in Legacy > > Ummmin regards to your Rule 1: Never User(sic) Abbreviations! > > Is not "RD" you cite in several examples an abbreviation? Gotcha! :-) > > Besides, people on this side of the pond have no idea what RD or even > Registration District mean in any type of address (excepting most > genealogists). > > > Brian in CA (this is not an abbreviation. I actually live in a place called > "CA".) > > > > -Original Message- > From: LegacyUserGroup [mailto:legacyusergroup-boun...@legacyusers.com] On > Behalf Of MikeFry > Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2016 6:41 AM > To: legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com > Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] How do I enter English locations in Legacy > > On 12 Apr 2016 2:40 PM, Linda Greethurst wrote: > > This note pertains to a bit of history, geography and using Legacy to >> enter the info. I want to clearly designate the difference between >> the locations of church events such as baptism and burial and the >> civil events such as birth and death. >> > > Adding to what Jenny has said: > > Civil events - I use the name of the Registration District with a suffix of > RD. > Occasionally, I'll add the county as well. For example, I have relatives > born and bred in Wiveton in Norfolk, England. For Civil Events. I would use > Walsingham RD or Walsingham RD, Norfolk. I will, sometimes, add the parish, > so that I get Wiveton, Walsingham RD, Norfolk. This is used for Births, > Marriages and Deaths. > > Church events - generally follow a standard of parish, village, county, > country. > Hence: St Mary the Virgin, Wiveton, Norfolk, England. This gets used for > baptisms/christenings, marriages and burials. > > Censuses - a slightly different standard that follows what is recorded for > each > census: place, county, country. Sometimes in the larger towns or cities, I > would add a civil parish (again taken from the census). > > Rule 1: NEVER USER ABBREVIATIONS! > > -- > Regards, > Mike Fry (Jhb) > > > > -- > > LegacyUserGroup mailing list > LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com > To manage your subscription and unsubscribe > http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com > Archives at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ > > -- > > LegacyUserGroup mailing list > LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com > To manage your subscription and unsubscribe > http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com > Archives at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ > -- LegacyUserGroup mailing list LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com To manage your subscription and unsubscribe http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com Archives at: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/
Re: [LegacyUG] How do I enter English locations in Legacy
On 12 Apr 2016 at 15:40, MikeFry wrote: > Civil events - I use the name of the Registration District with a suffix of > RD. Occasionally, I'll add the county as well. For example, I have relatives > born and bred in Wiveton in Norfolk, England. For Civil Events. I would use > Walsingham RD or Walsingham RD, Norfolk. I will, sometimes, add the parish, so > that I get Wiveton, Walsingham RD, Norfolk. This is used for Births, Marriages > and Deaths. I use the Registration District (with RD) as you do, but ONLY if the exact place is not known. Registration Districts can change and can cover two or more counties. If the village/town/city is known I use that, and may include the Registration Distroct in the source info - after all it is more a descrioption of the source of the record than of the place of the event. -- Keep well, Steve Hayes Blog:http://hayesgreene.wordpress.com Web:http://www.khanya.org.za/famhist1.htm E-mail: sha...@dunelm.org.uk -- LegacyUserGroup mailing list LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com To manage your subscription and unsubscribe http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com Archives at: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/
Re: [LegacyUG] How do I enter English locations in Legacy
On 12 Apr 2016 at 7:40, Linda Greethurst wrote: > But I am confused with English locations; and I think I am mixing up church > and civil juridictions. In England, isn't a "parish" a larger area than just > a church building? Can there be more than one church/congregation within a > "parish" jurisdiction? A parish can be a church division, or a civil one, and the boundaries are not necessarily the same. Also church parishes can vary in size, and some have chapelries in addition tot eh parish church. For example, some of my ancestors lived at Heatohn with Oxcliffe, in Lancashire. It was in the parish of St Mary's, Lancaster, but there was a chapelry of St Helen's at Overton, so some members of the family were baptised, married etc at one church and some of the other, and copies of the chapelry registers were sent to the parish church. So I record the church where the event took place. Born: Heaton with Oxcliffe. Baptised, St Helen's, Overton, or St Mary's, Lancaster, as the case may be. I usually put the name of the church in the baptism notes, along with names of sponsors, if known. > Example, I have a guy baptized on 12 Dec 1748 at St. Nicholas Parish, > Shepperton, Middlesex, England, United Kingdom. > That would be a church location for a church function. But what would be the > birth location if he were born in Shepperton. He wasn't born in the church > building itself as far as I know. Do I use the jurisdiction of "Hundred" > (which I haven't really figured out yet). I don't know if he was born in the > village of Shepperton, or on a rural residence. If the church residers says "Abode", he was probably born there, but they often didn't give that detail back then. If he was born in Shepperton, just say Shepperton, Middlesex. > Then he died in 1816 in Deptford, Kent, England -so now I have just three > places? Is there a smaller unit of an address to pinpoint where Deptford is > than just Kent? Not really. Back then it was probably recognisable as a village on the outskirts of london, but now it's just another London suburb. > Is "England" enough - properly? Do I need to include "United Kingdom"? I do > not use "USA" for pre 1776 events - that is not a proper location. It's adequate to just use England. The only part I feel the need to identify more closely is Northern Ireland after 1921. > So the basic questions: What are the 4 crucial "names" go into the four > slots for the civil birth location? It isn't always 4. Sometimes it's 3, or 5, or 6. When it's Bristol, I put 2 -- just "Bristol, England" -- though I'm not sure what exactly was enciompassed by "The City and County of Bristol". >What "names" go into the four slots for > the church baptism location? St Whatisnames, Town/Village, County, Country (eg England). >What other "location" information > would I need to include in the notes section? Street address, if known, name of hospital if birth took place there. > I am aware of the option to omit leading commas for easier reading to the > non-genealogist. And I know I can use more than 4 slots, but then the sort > order gets "out of sorts". Thus, what are the 4 vital names. You can sort them from bigtgest to smallest -- makes it easier. -- Steve Hayes E-mail: sha...@dunelm.org.uk Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm Phone: 083-342-3563 or 012-333-6727 Fax: 086-548-2525 -- LegacyUserGroup mailing list LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com To manage your subscription and unsubscribe http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com Archives at: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/
Re: [LegacyUG] How do I enter English locations in Legacy
I have found that using the name of the town first more helpful as well as avoiding confusion with towns named "St xxx", such as St Bees, Cumberland or St Clement, Cornwall. It is also much easier to sort (right-left, left-right). How I wish FindAGrave would allow cemetery searches by town! Slogging through 350 St. Mary's Church/Abbey/Priory/et alii, is more than tedious. It is so much easier to find Prescot Church of St. Mary, Lancashire. I make exceptions for cities such as London, for which I have scads of churches, opting for St. Mary Magdalen, Milk St., London, St. Mary Magdalene, Bermondsey, Southwark, St. Mary Woolchurch, London, St. Mary Woolnoth of the Nativity, London, and St. Mary Overy Priory, Southwark, etc., for instance. Cheers, Carolyn To: legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com From: d...@btinternet.com Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2016 15:22:20 +0100 Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] How do I enter English locations in Legacy Hi Linda, I think someone else has mentioned that you should try and avoid the 4 units for a location. We like to keep things nice and complicated here in the UK !! If you know the name of the Church, then I would use, CHURCH NAME, TOWN/VILLAGE, COUNTY, ENGLAND (OR WALES OR SCOTLAND). I don't add United Kingdom as, to me, each of the Countries are separate entities. So, my baptism would be St. Nicholas, Shepperton, Middlesex, England. If the church was not shown then, Shepperton, Middlesex, England Some places have more than one church so you can't actually show the name unless the record details it. However, Counties changed over the course of time, so you need to be sure that you are using the right one for the actual event you are recording !! Shepperton was in Middlesex at the time of your Baptism but then went to Surrey !! This link will show you some details - http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/SRY/parishes I would record the death event as Deptford, Kent, England if this is what the record shows. There was no Civil Registration at this point so you would not find a record for this anyway. Civil Registration commenced in 1837 and there have been many, many changes right up to the present day of the "Districts" and what is included in them. GENUKI is a great site for picking this sort of thing apart and this link will give you an idea of what you need to be aware of when trying to ascertain locations - http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/ What I try and do is always add RD to the district name if the record is a Civil Registration Birth, Death or Marriage. So, as an example, Greenwich RD, London, England In the above, there is NO town/village as you cannot really use "London" as this could mean just about anything !! So you have DISTRICT/COUNTY/COUNTRY This link will show you what happened to Deptford over time - http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/greenwich.html This link will allow you to download a list of place names and their associated Registration Districts between 1837 and 1974 - http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/places/index.html Hope this helps and doesn't confuse things even more !! Chris S On 12/04/2016 13:40, Linda Greethurst wrote: This note pertains to a bit of history, geography and using Legacy to enter the info. I want to clearly designate the difference between the locations of church events such as baptism and burial and the civil events such as birth and death. In the US we have city (or township if referring to a farm), then county, then state, and then country. For example I would enter: Des Moines, Polk County, Iowa, USA. I use the word "County" as Des Moines city is not in Des Moines county. The name of the church itself would go into the notes under the baptism address, right? But I am confused with English locations; and I think I am mixing up church and civil juridictions. In England, isn't a "parish" a larger area than just a church building? Can there be more than one church/congregation within a "parish" jurisdiction? Example, I have a guy baptized on 12 Dec 1748 at St. Nicholas Parish, Shepperton, Middlesex, England, United Kingdom. That would be a church location for a church function. But what would be the birth location if he were born in Shepperton. He wasn't born in the church building itself as far as I know. Do I use the jurisdiction of
Re: [LegacyUG] How do I enter English locations in Legacy
Rural Delivery -Original Message- From: Brian L. Lightfoot Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2016 10:57 AM To: 'Legacy User Group' Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] How do I enter English locations in Legacy Ummmin regards to your Rule 1: Never User(sic) Abbreviations! Is not "RD" you cite in several examples an abbreviation? Gotcha! :-) Besides, people on this side of the pond have no idea what RD or even Registration District mean in any type of address (excepting most genealogists). Brian in CA (this is not an abbreviation. I actually live in a place called "CA".) -Original Message- From: LegacyUserGroup [mailto:legacyusergroup-boun...@legacyusers.com] On Behalf Of MikeFry Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2016 6:41 AM To: legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] How do I enter English locations in Legacy On 12 Apr 2016 2:40 PM, Linda Greethurst wrote: This note pertains to a bit of history, geography and using Legacy to enter the info. I want to clearly designate the difference between the locations of church events such as baptism and burial and the civil events such as birth and death. Adding to what Jenny has said: Civil events - I use the name of the Registration District with a suffix of RD. Occasionally, I'll add the county as well. For example, I have relatives born and bred in Wiveton in Norfolk, England. For Civil Events. I would use Walsingham RD or Walsingham RD, Norfolk. I will, sometimes, add the parish, so that I get Wiveton, Walsingham RD, Norfolk. This is used for Births, Marriages and Deaths. Church events - generally follow a standard of parish, village, county, country. Hence: St Mary the Virgin, Wiveton, Norfolk, England. This gets used for baptisms/christenings, marriages and burials. Censuses - a slightly different standard that follows what is recorded for each census: place, county, country. Sometimes in the larger towns or cities, I would add a civil parish (again taken from the census). Rule 1: NEVER USER ABBREVIATIONS! -- Regards, Mike Fry (Jhb) -- LegacyUserGroup mailing list LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com To manage your subscription and unsubscribe http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com Archives at: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/ -- LegacyUserGroup mailing list LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com To manage your subscription and unsubscribe http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com Archives at: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/
Re: [LegacyUG] How do I enter English locations in Legacy
Ummmin regards to your Rule 1: Never User(sic) Abbreviations! Is not "RD" you cite in several examples an abbreviation? Gotcha! :-) Besides, people on this side of the pond have no idea what RD or even Registration District mean in any type of address (excepting most genealogists). Brian in CA (this is not an abbreviation. I actually live in a place called "CA".) -Original Message- From: LegacyUserGroup [mailto:legacyusergroup-boun...@legacyusers.com] On Behalf Of MikeFry Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2016 6:41 AM To: legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] How do I enter English locations in Legacy On 12 Apr 2016 2:40 PM, Linda Greethurst wrote: > This note pertains to a bit of history, geography and using Legacy to > enter the info. I want to clearly designate the difference between > the locations of church events such as baptism and burial and the > civil events such as birth and death. Adding to what Jenny has said: Civil events - I use the name of the Registration District with a suffix of RD. Occasionally, I'll add the county as well. For example, I have relatives born and bred in Wiveton in Norfolk, England. For Civil Events. I would use Walsingham RD or Walsingham RD, Norfolk. I will, sometimes, add the parish, so that I get Wiveton, Walsingham RD, Norfolk. This is used for Births, Marriages and Deaths. Church events - generally follow a standard of parish, village, county, country. Hence: St Mary the Virgin, Wiveton, Norfolk, England. This gets used for baptisms/christenings, marriages and burials. Censuses - a slightly different standard that follows what is recorded for each census: place, county, country. Sometimes in the larger towns or cities, I would add a civil parish (again taken from the census). Rule 1: NEVER USER ABBREVIATIONS! -- Regards, Mike Fry (Jhb) -- LegacyUserGroup mailing list LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com To manage your subscription and unsubscribe http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com Archives at: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/
Re: [LegacyUG] How do I enter English locations in Legacy
Hi Linda, I think someone else has mentioned that you should try and avoid the 4 units for a location. We like to keep things nice and complicated here in the UK !! If you know the name of the Church, then I would use, CHURCH NAME, TOWN/VILLAGE, COUNTY, ENGLAND (OR WALES OR SCOTLAND). I don't add United Kingdom as, to me, each of the Countries are separate entities. So, my baptism would be St. Nicholas, Shepperton, Middlesex, England. If the church was not shown then, Shepperton, Middlesex, England Some places have more than one church so you can't actually show the name unless the record details it. However, Counties changed over the course of time, so you need to be sure that you are using the right one for the actual event you are recording !! Shepperton was in Middlesex at the time of your Baptism but then went to Surrey !! This link will show you some details - http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/SRY/parishes I would record the death event as Deptford, Kent, England if this is what the record shows. There was no Civil Registration at this point so you would not find a record for this anyway. Civil Registration commenced in 1837 and there have been many, many changes right up to the present day of the "Districts" and what is included in them. GENUKI is a great site for picking this sort of thing apart and this link will give you an idea of what you need to be aware of when trying to ascertain locations - http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/ What I try and do is always add RD to the district name if the record is a Civil Registration Birth, Death or Marriage. So, as an example, Greenwich RD, London, England In the above, there is NO town/village as you cannot really use "London" as this could mean just about anything !! So you have DISTRICT/COUNTY/COUNTRY This link will show you what happened to Deptford over time - http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/greenwich.html This link will allow you to download a list of place names and their associated Registration Districts between 1837 and 1974 - http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/places/index.html Hope this helps and doesn't confuse things even more !! Chris S On 12/04/2016 13:40, Linda Greethurst wrote: This note pertains to a bit of history, geography and using Legacy to enter the info. I want to clearly designate the difference between the locations of church events such as baptism and burial and the civil events such as birth and death. In the US we have city (or township if referring to a farm), then county, then state, and then country. For example I would enter: Des Moines, Polk County, Iowa, USA. I use the word "County" as Des Moines city is not in Des Moines county. The name of the church itself would go into the notes under the baptism address, right? But I am confused with English locations; and I think I am mixing up church and civil juridictions. In England, isn't a "parish" a larger area than just a church building? Can there be more than one church/congregation within a "parish" jurisdiction? Example, I have a guy baptized on 12 Dec 1748 at St. Nicholas Parish, Shepperton, Middlesex, England, United Kingdom. That would be a church location for a church function. But what would be the birth location if he were born in Shepperton. He wasn't born in the church building itself as far as I know. Do I use the jurisdiction of "Hundred" (which I haven't really figured out yet). I don't know if he was born in the village of Shepperton, or on a rural residence. Then he died in 1816 in Deptford, Kent, England -so now I have just three places? Is there a smaller unit of an address to pinpoint where Deptford is than just Kent? Is "England" enough - properly? Do I need to include "United Kingdom"? I do not use "USA" for pre 1776 events - that is not a proper location. So the basic questions: What are the 4 crucial "names" go into the four slots for the civil birth location? What "names" go into the four slots for the church baptism location? What other "location" information would I need to include in the notes section? I am aware of the option to omit leading commas for easier reading to the non-genealogist. And I know I can use more than 4 slots, but then the sort order gets "out of sorts". Thus, what are the 4 vital names. Any suggestions or guidelines would be helpful. Thank you in advance. Linda -- LegacyUserGroup mailing list LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com To manage your subscription and unsubscribe http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com Archives at: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/
Re: [LegacyUG] How do I enter English locations in Legacy
On 12 Apr 2016 2:40 PM, Linda Greethurst wrote: This note pertains to a bit of history, geography and using Legacy to enter the info. I want to clearly designate the difference between the locations of church events such as baptism and burial and the civil events such as birth and death. Adding to what Jenny has said: Civil events - I use the name of the Registration District with a suffix of RD. Occasionally, I'll add the county as well. For example, I have relatives born and bred in Wiveton in Norfolk, England. For Civil Events. I would use Walsingham RD or Walsingham RD, Norfolk. I will, sometimes, add the parish, so that I get Wiveton, Walsingham RD, Norfolk. This is used for Births, Marriages and Deaths. Church events - generally follow a standard of parish, village, county, country. Hence: St Mary the Virgin, Wiveton, Norfolk, England. This gets used for baptisms/christenings, marriages and burials. Censuses - a slightly different standard that follows what is recorded for each census: place, county, country. Sometimes in the larger towns or cities, I would add a civil parish (again taken from the census). Rule 1: NEVER USER ABBREVIATIONS! -- Regards, Mike Fry (Jhb) -- LegacyUserGroup mailing list LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com To manage your subscription and unsubscribe http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com Archives at: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/
Re: [LegacyUG] How do I enter English locations in Legacy
On 12/04/2016 13:40, Linda Greethurst wrote: This note pertains to a bit of history, geography and using Legacy to enter the info. I want to clearly designate the difference between the locations of church events such as baptism and burial and the civil events such as birth and death. In the US we have city (or township if referring to a farm), then county, then state, and then country. For example I would enter: Des Moines, Polk County, Iowa, USA. I use the word "County" as Des Moines city is not in Des Moines county. The name of the church itself would go into the notes under the baptism address, right? But I am confused with English locations; and I think I am mixing up church and civil juridictions. In England, isn't a "parish" a larger area than just a church building? Can there be more than one church/congregation within a "parish" jurisdiction? Example, I have a guy baptized on 12 Dec 1748 at St. Nicholas Parish, Shepperton, Middlesex, England, United Kingdom. That would be a church location for a church function. But what would be the birth location if he were born in Shepperton. He wasn't born in the church building itself as far as I know. Do I use the jurisdiction of "Hundred" (which I haven't really figured out yet). I don't know if he was born in the village of Shepperton, or on a rural residence. Then he died in 1816 in Deptford, Kent, England -so now I have just three places? Is there a smaller unit of an address to pinpoint where Deptford is than just Kent? Is "England" enough - properly? Do I need to include "United Kingdom"? I do not use "USA" for pre 1776 events - that is not a proper location. So the basic questions: What are the 4 crucial "names" go into the four slots for the civil birth location? What "names" go into the four slots for the church baptism location? What other "location" information would I need to include in the notes section? I am aware of the option to omit leading commas for easier reading to the non-genealogist. And I know I can use more than 4 slots, but then the sort order gets "out of sorts". Thus, what are the 4 vital names. Any suggestions or guidelines would be helpful. Thank you in advance. The most helpful suggestion I can give is to abandon any idea of using no more and no less than 4 slots for UK places! With regard to Parish, this gets confusing because there are ecclesiastical parishes - the area surrounding a church - and civil parishes, which don't necessarily have the same boundaries. About the nearest you can get to a standard, before the modern introduction (by the Royal Mail) of Post Towns and Post Codes, is Village, Town, County, Country. I tend to just go with what I see - and I do use the house/church/street name as part of the location. So "St Nicholas' Church, Shepperton, Middlesex, England" for the Baptism, "Deptford, Kent, England" for the Death or even just "Greenwich Registration District" if that's all I know for sure. You could add "England" to the Registration District, but it's never safe to include a county because RDs often overlapped county boundaries. Also not correct say "Greenwich, Kent, England" if all you know is that the event was registered in the Greenwich RD, because the event didn't necessarily occur in Greenwich itself but in a neighbouring parish. Sorry, I've probably just made it seem even more confusing:-( Just write what you see. -- Jenny M Benson -- LegacyUserGroup mailing list LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com To manage your subscription and unsubscribe http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com Archives at: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/
[LegacyUG] How do I enter English locations in Legacy
This note pertains to a bit of history, geography and using Legacy to enter the info. I want to clearly designate the difference between the locations of church events such as baptism and burial and the civil events such as birth and death. In the US we have city (or township if referring to a farm), then county, then state, and then country. For example I would enter: Des Moines, Polk County, Iowa, USA. I use the word "County" as Des Moines city is not in Des Moines county. The name of the church itself would go into the notes under the baptism address, right? But I am confused with English locations; and I think I am mixing up church and civil juridictions. In England, isn't a "parish" a larger area than just a church building? Can there be more than one church/congregation within a "parish" jurisdiction? Example, I have a guy baptized on 12 Dec 1748 at St. Nicholas Parish, Shepperton, Middlesex, England, United Kingdom. That would be a church location for a church function. But what would be the birth location if he were born in Shepperton. He wasn't born in the church building itself as far as I know. Do I use the jurisdiction of "Hundred" (which I haven't really figured out yet). I don't know if he was born in the village of Shepperton, or on a rural residence. Then he died in 1816 in Deptford, Kent, England -so now I have just three places? Is there a smaller unit of an address to pinpoint where Deptford is than just Kent? Is "England" enough - properly? Do I need to include "United Kingdom"? I do not use "USA" for pre 1776 events - that is not a proper location. So the basic questions: What are the 4 crucial "names" go into the four slots for the civil birth location? What "names" go into the four slots for the church baptism location? What other "location" information would I need to include in the notes section? I am aware of the option to omit leading commas for easier reading to the non-genealogist. And I know I can use more than 4 slots, but then the sort order gets "out of sorts". Thus, what are the 4 vital names. Any suggestions or guidelines would be helpful. Thank you in advance. Linda -- LegacyUserGroup mailing list LegacyUserGroup@legacyusers.com To manage your subscription and unsubscribe http://legacyusers.com/mailman/listinfo/legacyusergroup_legacyusers.com Archives at: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/
