Re: [LegacyUG] problem with unmarried

2012-09-29 Thread Karen and Jim
On 09/28/2012 01:09 PM, R G Strong-genes wrote:
R G
 First off there is not a bug!
I disagree.  Reasons to follow.
 Did you mark this couple an not married on the marriage info screen?
Originally I marked their marriage status as unmarried.

 If you did then the labels will change back to Male and Female.
No.  This did NOT make them Male and Female.
They were still labeled Husband and Wife.  BUG.
I found no way to make them Male and Female
and still have them as parents of a child including
unlinking the 3 of them and then relinking.  They
keep being Husband and Wife and unmarried.
BUG.
 Second when you opened the marriage screen and there is no marriage
 then you should have clicked cancel and not clicked the X.
Yes, I found that out while testing this issue.
 Just closing the window Legacy will assume that there is a marriage
 but you have no marriage info to enter.
Yes, I found that out also.  IMHO Legacy should not assume
so much until WE say it is so.  If Legacy Family Tree software,
has an issue with us, the default should be a pop-up and ask.
 This same procedure should be adhered to for all screens.
 If THERE IS A CANCEL button use that and not the X to close if you
 have not entered
 any data or don’t want the changes saved as this will happen when the
 window is closed with the X button.
Closing a window with X when NO data has been entered
should be the same as Cancel.  OK, I can adjust to Legacy's
way, but I don't believe it is NOT standard across all software.
But I may be wrong and it is a very small issue I can live with.

Legacy, even with its faults, is still the best.  It isn't perfect.

Thanks R G

JimS

 *From:* Karen and Jim mailto:sindbe...@att.net
 *Sent:* Thursday, September 27, 2012 1:25 PM
 *To:* LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
 mailto:LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
 *Subject:* Re: [LegacyUG] problem with unmarried

 Brian,

 Let's start with a fact, a fact of life in the real world.
 In the real world we have many unwed mothers
 and unwed fathers.

 I have a similar issue as Pat's.
 I have a man and a women who had a child.
 The couple did not marry each other.
 But Legacy labels them Husband and Wife.
 Unlinking Husband from Wife also UNLINKS the Father from his child.
 BAD.  I smell a bug.  This should not happen.
 The Mother is still linked to their child
 and is Wife to Husband Unknown.
 Unlinking the Mother from Unknown Husband
 UNLINKED her from her child also.
 Equally BAD and should not happen.
 These 3 people are biologically linked in real life,
 but NOT by marriage and therefore not by Legacy.

 Second case:
 I just clicked on a child, labeled Male.  Then I clicked
 on Marriage Information and did not enter anything.
 I clicked on the X to close Marriage Information.
 When I came back to the child, who had died shortly
 after birth, he was labeled Husband.  And Legacy had
 married him to a Wife with the name Unknown.
 I unlinked the pair successfully per your instructions
 and the little fellow is now no longer a husband.
 Thank you.

 Your statement If she had children then there must be a
 marriage to create the link between her and her children ...
 may be true for you in Legacy, but in the real world
 this assumption is often false.

 This situation could be corrected by not labeling parents
 as Husband and Wife until WE, your customers,
 enter the necessary data into Marriage Information.

 IMHO this is a bug in Legacy's programming.

 JimS
 Legacy v.5 Deluxe
 40+ yrs ADP incl. programming.



 On 09/26/2012 07:27 PM, Pat Hickin wrote:
 Thanks, Brian, Â
 I knew that option was somewhere but couldn't find it. Â
 However that brings up another matter, especially for men -- I may
 pretty well know that he never married, but he could certainly have
 fathered children that I know nothing about. Â I wish the option
 simply said He never married. and stopped at that.
 Pat

 On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 4:43 PM, Brian/Support
 br...@legacyfamilytree.com mailto:br...@legacyfamilytree.com wrote:

 Since you have made an entry in the marriage info for this person
 Legacy
 has linked her to an unknown husband (The married someone comes
 from
 that link). If she truly never married and had no children then you
 should indicate that on the person's individual information
 screen not
 by setting a marriage status. If she had children then there must
 be a
 marriage to create the link between her and her children so my
 fix below
 cannot be used.

 Remove the marriage link by selecting the person, right click on her
 marriage info bar
 Select the Remove the marriage link option from the drop down menu
 Now edit the person and click the This individual never married
 and had
 no children option below the list of events.

 Brian
 Customer Support
 Millennia Corporation
 br...@legacyfamilytree.com mailto:br...@legacyfamilytree.com
 http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com
 --
 On 26

Re: [LegacyUG] problem with unmarried

2012-09-29 Thread Mike Fry
On 2012/09/29 18:20, Karen and Jim wrote:

 First off there is not a bug!
 I disagree.  Reasons to follow.

No bug. Missing feature maybe.

 Did you mark this couple an not married on the marriage info screen?
 Originally I marked their marriage status as unmarried.

 If you did then the labels will change back to Male and Female.
 No.  This did NOT make them Male and Female.
 They were still labeled Husband and Wife.  BUG.
 I found no way to make them Male and Female
 and still have them as parents of a child including
 unlinking the 3 of them and then relinking.  They
 keep being Husband and Wife and unmarried.Â
 BUG.

Yes they do. Check on the Wording tab of the Marriage screen.

There is a bug! If you tick the couple as not having married, the wording
changes to using 'relationship'. All well and good and can be changed. Now,
untick the couple and make them married. The wording doesn't change back to
reflect a marriage.

--
Regards,
Mike Fry
Johannesburg (g)



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RE: [LegacyUG] problem with unmarried

2012-09-29 Thread Paul Gray
Mike,

I wonder if the issue is the version Jim is using. His sig on his first post, 
and also pointed out by someone, states that he is using V5. Deluxe. This 
ability to control labels and wordings sounds like the sort of enhancement that 
would be made as new versions are released.

If that's the case, upgrading to V7 is the solution.

Paul Gray


-Original Message-
From: Mike Fry [mailto:emjay...@gmail.com]
Sent: September-29-12 11:11 AM
To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] problem with unmarried

On 2012/09/29 18:20, Karen and Jim wrote:

 First off there is not a bug!
 I disagree.  Reasons to follow.

No bug. Missing feature maybe.

 Did you mark this couple an not married on the marriage info screen?
 Originally I marked their marriage status as unmarried.

 If you did then the labels will change back to Male and Female.
 No.  This did NOT make them Male and Female.
 They were still labeled Husband and Wife.  BUG.
 I found no way to make them Male and Female and still have them as
 parents of a child including unlinking the 3 of them and then
 relinking.  They keep being Husband and Wife and unmarried. BUG.

Yes they do. Check on the Wording tab of the Marriage screen.

There is a bug! If you tick the couple as not having married, the wording 
changes to using 'relationship'. All well and good and can be changed. Now, 
untick the couple and make them married. The wording doesn't change back to 
reflect a marriage.

--
Regards,
Mike Fry
Johannesburg (g)



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Re: [LegacyUG] problem with unmarried

2012-09-29 Thread Brian/Support
The ability to change wording for marriages is a new feature in
Version 7. It does not exist in versions before that so any discussion
of labels for unmarried couples and the wording of sentences for
unmarried couples will only apply to Version 7. Karen and Jim indicate
they are using Version 5.0 Deluxe. We stopped making changes to that
version after Legacy 6.0 was released. The final version of Legacy 5.0
was issued 12 Dec 2006 There were three versions of Legacy 5 released
after the issue of Legacy 6.0 in August 2005. In Jan 2006 we added a new
PDF creator and made a change to keep Legacy 5 current with a change to
the IGI log in from FamilySearch.org. In May we updated the file format
to keep it compatible with Legacy 6.0 and in Dec 2006 we fixed some
issues with the Calendar Creator.

As Mike says below, the only bug reports that we consider and enter into
our problem reporting system are those which can be confirmed in the
latest release of Legacy 7.0. Those who continue to use older versions
just have to accept the limitations inherent in older software.

Brian
Customer Support
Millennia Corporation
br...@legacyfamilytree.com
http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com
--


 Mike:

 Keep in mind that you are replying to someone who is using V5. A V5 user
 should not claim something is a bug without trying it with the current
 release of Legacy. Millennia is not going to take a V5 user seriously
 unless they can show that the bug still exists in V7.




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Re: [LegacyUG] problem with unmarried

2012-09-29 Thread Karen and Jim
Brian,

This is good to know.  Thanks Brian.
I'll tag your email as a keeper.
For now I can live with this issue.

As y'all know now, I'm still using v.5 Deluxe
on an old PC that would be retired in business.
This pc does only Legacy.  No Internet connection.
I've cleaned up M$ Windoz XP for speed.
My needs here are simple.  Mostly data entry
and reports for relatives.  And I like speed.
And until now I've found no reason to upgrade.
And the changes Brian has mentioned below are
not worth the time and expense for me to upgrade.
But if v.7+ is faster, then ...

JimS
Writh's law - Software is getting slower more rapidly
than hardware becomes faster.


On 09/29/2012 05:19 PM, Brian/Support wrote:
 The ability to change wording for marriages is a new feature in
 Version 7. It does not exist in versions before that so any discussion
 of labels for unmarried couples and the wording of sentences for
 unmarried couples will only apply to Version 7. Karen and Jim indicate
 they are using Version 5.0 Deluxe. We stopped making changes to that
 version after Legacy 6.0 was released. The final version of Legacy 5.0
 was issued 12 Dec 2006 There were three versions of Legacy 5 released
 after the issue of Legacy 6.0 in August 2005. In Jan 2006 we added a new
 PDF creator and made a change to keep Legacy 5 current with a change to
 the IGI log in from FamilySearch.org. In May we updated the file format
 to keep it compatible with Legacy 6.0 and in Dec 2006 we fixed some
 issues with the Calendar Creator.

 As Mike says below, the only bug reports that we consider and enter into
 our problem reporting system are those which can be confirmed in the
 latest release of Legacy 7.0. Those who continue to use older versions
 just have to accept the limitations inherent in older software.

 Brian
 Customer Support
 Millennia Corporation
 br...@legacyfamilytree.com
 http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com





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Re: [LegacyUG] problem with unmarried

2012-09-28 Thread Brian/Support
The request to have two separate settings, one for never married and
another for had no children has been argued on our tester email list. So
far the programmers have not elected to separate the setting.

In Legacy 4.0 and 5.0 the setting was just This individual never
married, no mention of children.

Brian
Customer Support
Millennia Corporation
br...@legacyfamilytree.com
http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com
--

On 26/09/2012 19:27, Pat Hickin wrote:
 Thanks, Brian,

 I knew that option was somewhere but couldn't find it.

 However that brings up another matter, especially for men -- I may
 pretty well know that he never married, but he could certainly have
 fathered children that I know nothing about.  I wish the option simply
 said He never married. and stopped at that.

 Pat



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Re: [LegacyUG] problem with unmarried

2012-09-28 Thread Pat Hickin
Brian wrote, there must have been a relationship between a man and a woman
to have a child.

But with *in vitro* fertilization I don't think there has to be a
relationship.

Not what I would call a relationship anyway.

Pat



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Re: [LegacyUG] problem with unmarried

2012-09-28 Thread hwedhlor
Biology 101:  In human reproduction there is always an egg
and a sperm!  Whether the contributors were married,
cohabited outside of marriage, had consensual sex, used
artificial insemination, or any other means of bringing the
egg and sperm together, there was still a female who
contributed the egg and a male who contributed the sperm.
That means there were names of those contributors to enter
into Legacy, though they may not always be available to us
as researchers.  How we label the relationship between the
two contributors is optional, but the method of
fertilization being something other than the classic sexual
relationship between two married heterosexual adults does
not make either contributor go away, no matter how we think
of them.  There was always a mother and a father, or if you
insist, a male and a female contributor. :-)

John Zimmerman
Mesa, AZ

On 9/28/2012 11:01 AM, Pat Hickin wrote:
 Brian wrote, there must have been a relationship between
 a man and a woman to have a child.

 But with /in vitro/ fertilization I don't think there has
 to be a relationship.

 Not what I would call a relationship anyway.

 Pat



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RE: [LegacyUG] problem with unmarried

2012-09-28 Thread Terry L .
One of the reasons I left this group before was peoples attitudes on here. Pat 
had a legitimate question. Most have you have been helpful, but there are some 
on this list who continually put in sarcastic and sometimes rude comments. I 
don't think she needs a biology lesson, and yes she can search the archives. We 
were all new to this at one time. Have a little respect, and help each other. 
If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say a thing. Just move on to the 
next topic.

Terry


Researching Laraman, Lansdell, Champness, Dunn, Easey, Shrubsole, Wraight, 
Axcell, Bashford, Bristow, Haines, Hill, Hollowell, Jeffs, Lewis, Marsh, Reid, 
Shand, Tink, Wadsworth, Warner Families.

 From: hwedh...@cox.net
 To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
 Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] problem with unmarried
 Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 11:56:46 -0700

 Biology 101: In human reproduction there is always an egg
 and a sperm!



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Re: [LegacyUG] problem with unmarried

2012-09-28 Thread barbsnow
Amen.

- Original Message -
From: Terry L. nemesi...@hotmail.com
To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 3:30:25 PM
Subject: RE: [LegacyUG] problem with unmarried

One of the reasons I left this group before was peoples attitudes on here. Pat 
had a legitimate question. Most have you have been helpful, but there are some 
on this list who continually put in sarcastic and sometimes rude comments. I 
don't think she needs a biology lesson, and yes she can search the archives. We 
were all new to this at one time. Have a little respect, and help each other. 
If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say a thing. Just move on to the 
next topic.

Terry


Researching Laraman, Lansdell, Champness, Dunn, Easey, Shrubsole, Wraight, 
Axcell, Bashford, Bristow, Haines, Hill, Hollowell, Jeffs, Lewis, Marsh, Reid, 
Shand, Tink, Wadsworth, Warner Families.

 From: hwedh...@cox.net
 To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
 Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] problem with unmarried
 Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 11:56:46 -0700

 Biology 101: In human reproduction there is always an egg
 and a sperm!



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RE: [LegacyUG] problem with unmarried

2012-09-28 Thread Robert Austen
Well said Terry, and the main reason I seldom participate.

Bob

-Original Message-
From: Terry L. [mailto:nemesi...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 12:30 PM
To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
Subject: RE: [LegacyUG] problem with unmarried

One of the reasons I left this group before was peoples attitudes on here. Pat 
had a legitimate question. Most have you have been helpful, but there are some 
on this list who continually put in sarcastic and sometimes rude comments. I 
don't think she needs a biology lesson, and yes she can search the archives. We 
were all new to this at one time. Have a little respect, and help each other. 
If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say a thing. Just move on to the 
next topic.

Terry


Researching Laraman, Lansdell, Champness, Dunn, Easey, Shrubsole, Wraight, 
Axcell, Bashford, Bristow, Haines, Hill, Hollowell, Jeffs, Lewis, Marsh, Reid, 
Shand, Tink, Wadsworth, Warner Families.

 From: hwedh...@cox.net
 To: LegacyUserGroup@LegacyUsers.com
 Subject: Re: [LegacyUG] problem with unmarried
 Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 11:56:46 -0700

 Biology 101: In human reproduction there is always an egg and a sperm!



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Re: [LegacyUG] problem with unmarried

2012-09-27 Thread Karen and Jim

Brian,

Let's start with a fact, a fact of life in the real world.
In the real world we have many unwed mothers
and unwed fathers.

I have a similar issue as Pat's.
I have a man and a women who had a child.
The couple did not marry each other.
But Legacy labels them Husband and Wife.
Unlinking Husband from Wife also UNLINKS the Father from his child.
BAD.  I smell a bug.  This should not happen.
The Mother is still linked to their child
and is Wife to Husband Unknown.
Unlinking the Mother from Unknown Husband
UNLINKED her from her child also.
Equally BAD and should not happen.
These 3 people are biologically linked in real life,
but NOT by marriage and therefore not by Legacy.

Second case:
I just clicked on a child, labeled Male.  Then I clicked
on Marriage Information and did not enter anything.
I clicked on the X to close Marriage Information.
When I came back to the child, who had died shortly
after birth, he was labeled Husband.  And Legacy had
married him to a Wife with the name Unknown.
I unlinked the pair successfully per your instructions
and the little fellow is now no longer a husband.
Thank you.

Your statement If she had children then there must be a
marriage to create the link between her and her children ...
may be true for you in Legacy, but in the real world
this assumption is often false.

This situation could be corrected by not labeling parents
as Husband and Wife until WE, your customers,
enter the necessary data into Marriage Information.

IMHO this is a bug in Legacy's programming.

JimS
Legacy v.5 Deluxe
40+ yrs ADP incl. programming.



On 09/26/2012 07:27 PM, Pat Hickin wrote:
 Thanks, Brian,

 I knew that option was somewhere but couldn't find it.

 However that brings up another matter, especially for men -- I may
 pretty well know that he never married, but he could certainly have
 fathered children that I know nothing about.  I wish the option simply
 said He never married. and stopped at that.

 Pat

 On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 4:43 PM, Brian/Support
 br...@legacyfamilytree.com mailto:br...@legacyfamilytree.com wrote:

 Since you have made an entry in the marriage info for this person
 Legacy
 has linked her to an unknown husband (The married someone comes from
 that link). If she truly never married and had no children then you
 should indicate that on the person's individual information screen not
 by setting a marriage status. If she had children then there must be a
 marriage to create the link between her and her children so my fix
 below
 cannot be used.

 Remove the marriage link by selecting the person, right click on her
 marriage info bar
 Select the Remove the marriage link option from the drop down menu
 Now edit the person and click the This individual never married
 and had
 no children option below the list of events.

 Brian
 Customer Support
 Millennia Corporation
 br...@legacyfamilytree.com mailto:br...@legacyfamilytree.com
 http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com
 --
 On 26/09/2012 16:25, Pat Hickin wrote:
  Yes, I hadn't even noticed the date, Jenny, which is when she
 wrote her
  will -- she was never married.  I just don't want Legacy telling
 us that
  she was unmarried AND that she married someone!   It does that
 even when
  there's no date involved.
 
  Pat



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Re: [LegacyUG] problem with unmarried

2012-09-26 Thread Pat Hickin
Yes, I hadn't even noticed the date, Jenny, which is when she wrote her
will -- she was never married.  I just don't want Legacy telling us that
she was unmarried AND that she married someone!   It does that even when
there's no date involved.

Pat

On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 4:14 PM, Jenny M Benson ge...@cedarbank.me.ukwrote:

 On 25/09/2012 19:55, Pat Hickin wrote:
  How can I get Legacy not to do this in reports?
 
  In Jane's marriage info, I have her marriage status marked as
 unmarried.
 
  Here is what Legacy has to say about her in a report:
  Jane married someone. Marriage status: unmarried in 1824.

 I presume you put a Marriage Status Date of 1824.  To me, doing this
 implies that there was a time when she was married but became
 unmarried in 1824.  If she was never married I would leave the Status
 blank.  If she co-habited without marriage I would just check the box
 for This couple did not marry.
 --
 Jenny M Benson



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Re: [LegacyUG] problem with unmarried

2012-09-26 Thread Brian/Support
Since you have made an entry in the marriage info for this person Legacy
has linked her to an unknown husband (The married someone comes from
that link). If she truly never married and had no children then you
should indicate that on the person's individual information screen not
by setting a marriage status. If she had children then there must be a
marriage to create the link between her and her children so my fix below
cannot be used.

Remove the marriage link by selecting the person, right click on her
marriage info bar
Select the Remove the marriage link option from the drop down menu
Now edit the person and click the This individual never married and had
no children option below the list of events.

Brian
Customer Support
Millennia Corporation
br...@legacyfamilytree.com
http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com
--
On 26/09/2012 16:25, Pat Hickin wrote:
 Yes, I hadn't even noticed the date, Jenny, which is when she wrote her
 will -- she was never married.  I just don't want Legacy telling us that
 she was unmarried AND that she married someone!   It does that even when
 there's no date involved.

 Pat



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Re: [LegacyUG] problem with unmarried

2012-09-26 Thread Pat Hickin
Thanks, Brian,

I knew that option was somewhere but couldn't find it.

However that brings up another matter, especially for men -- I may pretty
well know that he never married, but he could certainly have fathered
children that I know nothing about.  I wish the option simply said He
never married. and stopped at that.

Pat

On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 4:43 PM, Brian/Support
br...@legacyfamilytree.comwrote:

 Since you have made an entry in the marriage info for this person Legacy
 has linked her to an unknown husband (The married someone comes from
 that link). If she truly never married and had no children then you
 should indicate that on the person's individual information screen not
 by setting a marriage status. If she had children then there must be a
 marriage to create the link between her and her children so my fix below
 cannot be used.

 Remove the marriage link by selecting the person, right click on her
 marriage info bar
 Select the Remove the marriage link option from the drop down menu
 Now edit the person and click the This individual never married and had
 no children option below the list of events.

 Brian
 Customer Support
 Millennia Corporation
 br...@legacyfamilytree.com
 http://www.LegacyFamilyTree.com
 --
 On 26/09/2012 16:25, Pat Hickin wrote:
  Yes, I hadn't even noticed the date, Jenny, which is when she wrote her
  will -- she was never married.  I just don't want Legacy telling us that
  she was unmarried AND that she married someone!   It does that even
 when
  there's no date involved.
 
  Pat



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Re: [LegacyUG] problem with unmarried

2012-09-25 Thread Jenny M Benson
On 25/09/2012 19:55, Pat Hickin wrote:
 How can I get Legacy not to do this in reports?

 In Jane's marriage info, I have her marriage status marked as unmarried.

 Here is what Legacy has to say about her in a report:
 Jane married someone. Marriage status: unmarried in 1824.

I presume you put a Marriage Status Date of 1824.  To me, doing this
implies that there was a time when she was married but became
unmarried in 1824.  If she was never married I would leave the Status
blank.  If she co-habited without marriage I would just check the box
for This couple did not marry.
--
Jenny M Benson



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