Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy
Yes, sure IBM charges cash for a lot of things, but I guess IBM doesn't charge for a Red Hat or Suse Linux subscription, right? And for training/testing/destroying you could just install a 2nd level zVM, put everything inside, and play with it. It wont hurt you production if you put share levels in place, you won't need to create another LPAR nor take more RAM into the box (if you are money-restrained). Mauro http://mauro.limeiratem.com - registered Linux User: 294521 Scripture is both history, and a love letter from God. On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 11:52 PM, Pat Carroll pcarr...@llbean.com wrote: Pat * 2 Patrick Carroll | Enterprise Technical Architect L.L.Bean, Inc.(r) | Double L St. | Freeport ME 04033 http://www.llbean.com | pcarr...@llbean.com | 207.552.2426 CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is solely for the use of the intended recipient(s). Any disclosure, copying, distribution, or other use of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete this message. -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:linux-...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of Patrick Spinler Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 6:56 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 (Discussion about z/VM and z/OS licensing snipped) I note that IBM makes some amount of money from reselling and providing service for nominally freely available linux distributions. I can only hope that, at some point, many or all of the OS's IBM wholly owns will be treated by IBM in a similar manner. I know for myself and my company, we happily pay IBM much cash for entitlements to enterprise linux to run on our mainframes and on other non-mainframe data center kit, even though I also happily run non-enterprise, freely available linux on my desktop. I'd dearly love to have the legal option to run an inexpensive z/VM at my desk as well, even though we'd continue to pay lots of $$ for z/VM maintenance and support. To run an inexpensive, private z/VM with half decent performance and no chance of effecting our production systems would be invaluable for any number of reasons, training, kicking the tires on a new beta product eval, etc. However, there's no way my organization would pay for extra ram to cut an LPAR for that. Much less two LPARs to test out anything like CSE. Anyway, apologies for the rant. I only hope that IBM considers doing this before linux as a zSeries hypervisor starts being considered a more serious option precisely because people can play with it more readily ... - -- Pat -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkr4q/gACgkQNObCqA8uBsxdMgCffYBg2Mewd8EykidpjUHk25J6 SLEAnRLXstwHLMiDOrilgjo3jEoRhnuE =yj+c -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy
On 11/9/09 6:55 PM, Patrick Spinler spinler.patr...@mayo.edu wrote: I know for myself and my company, we happily pay IBM much cash for entitlements to enterprise linux to run on our mainframes and on other non-mainframe data center kit, even though I also happily run non-enterprise, freely available linux on my desktop. I'd dearly love to have the legal option to run an inexpensive z/VM at my desk as well, even though we'd continue to pay lots of $$ for z/VM maintenance and support. Declare yourself a developer, and get a zPDT license. IBM will legally license z/VM and other OSes on zPDT. I'm sure you can think of *something* that you write and maintain that would be useful to someone else. For those who missed it, zPDT is a emulated Z on Intel Linux that IBM supports for small developers. Doesn't have all the bells and whistles of the z10 hardware, but on the other hand, most people don't need all of them either. Nice to see that IBM bought a clue that most small development shops CANNOT afford a z10, and going from a 5 RU FlexES solution to something that takes up the entire data center is a losing proposition. I'd still like to see a hobbyist license program, but at least there is a somewhat practical alternative again. -- db -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy
-Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:linux-...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of David Boyes Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:35 AM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy Declare yourself a developer, and get a zPDT license. IBM will legally license z/VM and other OSes on zPDT. I'm sure you can think of *something* that you write and maintain that would be useful to someone else. For those who missed it, zPDT is a emulated Z on Intel Linux that IBM supports for small developers. Doesn't have all the bells and whistles of the z10 hardware, but on the other hand, most people don't need all of them either. Nice to see that IBM bought a clue that most small development shops CANNOT afford a z10, and going from a 5 RU FlexES solution to something that takes up the entire data center is a losing proposition. I'd still like to see a hobbyist license program, but at least there is a somewhat practical alternative again. -- db Do you happen to know the cost? Can you use your own hardware if you are approved for the zPDT? Found some redbooks on this at: http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/cgi-bin/searchsite.cgi?query=zpdt -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy
Hi, John. You can learn a lot more about the zPDT itself and it's pricing options here: http://www.p390.com/zpdt.htm DJ On 11/10/2009 09:51 AM, McKown, John wrote: -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:linux-...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of David Boyes Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:35 AM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy Declare yourself a developer, and get a zPDT license. IBM will legally license z/VM and other OSes on zPDT. I'm sure you can think of *something* that you write and maintain that would be useful to someone else. For those who missed it, zPDT is a emulated Z on Intel Linux that IBM supports for small developers. Doesn't have all the bells and whistles of the z10 hardware, but on the other hand, most people don't need all of them either. Nice to see that IBM bought a clue that most small development shops CANNOT afford a z10, and going from a 5 RU FlexES solution to something that takes up the entire data center is a losing proposition. I'd still like to see a hobbyist license program, but at least there is a somewhat practical alternative again. -- db Do you happen to know the cost? Can you use your own hardware if you are approved for the zPDT? Found some redbooks on this at: http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/cgi-bin/searchsite.cgi?query=zpdt -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- Dave Jones V/Soft www.vsoft-software.com Houston, TX 281.578.7544 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
z/Journal magazine -- Historic Marist College Embraces Mainframe's Future
Historic Marist College Embraces Mainframe's Future by Gabe Goldberg Just over a century ago, the Marist Brothers arrived in New York's Hudson River Valley to train young men to continue the brothers' vocation as great educators. What started as a seminary for training has become a leading college of arts and sciences. Marist's proud tradition is the foundation for a state-of-the-art school, providing students with the intellect and character required for enlightened, ethical, and productive lives in the global community of the 21st century. The Princeton Review lists it in both Best Colleges and Most Connected Campuses. Though a few remaining brothers teach courses, the college is no longer formally connected to the Marist congregation. It is, however, still committed to providing a well-rounded education that includes a sense of community and service to the community. Emphasizing technology leadership, the college's strategic plan notes that Marist … seeks to distinguish itself by the manner in which it uses information technology to support teaching, learning, and scholarship at undergraduate and graduate levels. … A longtime IBM mainframe flagship, the school is now a hub of worldwide mainframe education, both on campus and via distance learning. Marist's data center hosts a diverse modern server environment with: • Two System z mainframes running z/OS, z/VM, and Linux on System z • Three System p servers running AIX and Red Hat Linux • Intel-based Linux and Windows 2003 Servers • About 200 traditional servers • More than 600 virtual servers • 10TB state-of-the-art IBM storage. http://www.zjournal.com/index.cfm?section=articleaid=1234 -- Gabriel Goldberg, Computers and Publishing, Inc. (703) 204-0433 3401 Silver Maple Place, Falls Church, VA 22042 g...@gabegold.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/gabegold -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy
On 11/10/09 10:51 AM, McKown, John john.mck...@healthmarkets.com wrote: Do you happen to know the cost? Can you use your own hardware if you are approved for the zPDT? I'll let IBM speak to that, or check out the Partnerworld www site. The prices vary depending on how much Z capacity you are emulating, and there are restrictions on what hardware you are permitted to run it on. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy
-Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:linux-...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of Dave Jones Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:02 AM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy Hi, John. You can learn a lot more about the zPDT itself and it's pricing options here: http://www.p390.com/zpdt.htm DJ Thanks - quick look puts this way, way beyond a hobbist. I.e. all I am interested in is porting GNU software to z/OS UNIX. There is no income in that, just street cred. Looks very nice for a smaller ISV. But makes me wonder why Flex-ES is no longer around. This looks very similar to what they had. Based on my ignorance, of course. humor type=weird Is there any significance to the fact that the company's name is ITC, which was the name I remember on the Muppet's Show and movies? /humor Hope the above doesn't offend them. I'm just really, really weird. -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy
On 11/10/09 10:51 AM, McKown, John john.mck...@healthmarkets.com wrote: Do you happen to know the cost? This answers many questions: http://www14.software.ibm.com/cgi-bin/pwdown/public/httpdl/stg/zpdt_isv_faq.pdf -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 David Andrews wrote: On 11/10/09 10:51 AM, McKown, John john.mck...@healthmarkets.com wrote: Do you happen to know the cost? According to the FAQ handily posted by David Andrews, the suggested costs start at $3750 a year. Subject to negotiation, of course. Definitely out of range for the hobbiest. Unlikely (in our shop) to be justified for training, too. :-( - -- Pat -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkr5mhoACgkQNObCqA8uBsxCUQCfZYjm7wFxIL6h6nE5OiKsusgc 45kAn3s8msufc+QA3dLPbtToawIKfBDj =gCDN -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy
On Tuesday, 11/10/2009 at 11:29 EST, McKown, John john.mck...@healthmarkets.com wrote: Thanks - quick look puts this way, way beyond a hobbist. I.e. all I am interested in is porting GNU software to z/OS UNIX. There is no income in that, just street cred. Looks very nice for a smaller ISV. The program is definitely for software vendors (businesses), not hobbyists. In fact, it would not be made available to a hobbyist, even if you wanted to purchase it. The requirements to be able to get zPDT are such that you must actively developing commercial offerings for System z and you must be actively marketing them to System z commercial clients. (Your PartnerWorld membership is reviewed.) humor type=weird Is there any significance to the fact that the company's name is ITC, which was the name I remember on the Muppet's Show and movies? /humor LOL! Space 1999. Alan Altmark z/VM Development IBM Endicott -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy
Is there any significance to the fact that the company's name is ITC, which was the name I remember on the Muppet's Show and movies? /humor LOL! Space 1999. Ah, a fond old memory dredged up from the dark corners of my aging brain. And Thunderbirds as well. Thanks! Paul -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy
Shame IBM forgot whom made ... over the decades ... z/OS what it is today ... Letting hobbist take advantage would strengthen z/OS in the real world .. an lead to more z/OS shop's...guess they just do not get it .. they use too.. From: Alan Altmark alan_altm...@us.ibm.com To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Date: 11/10/2009 12:02 PM Subject: Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy Sent by: Linux on 390 Port LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU On Tuesday, 11/10/2009 at 11:29 EST, McKown, John john.mck...@healthmarkets.com wrote: Thanks - quick look puts this way, way beyond a hobbist. I.e. all I am interested in is porting GNU software to z/OS UNIX. There is no income in that, just street cred. Looks very nice for a smaller ISV. The program is definitely for software vendors (businesses), not hobbyists. In fact, it would not be made available to a hobbyist, even if you wanted to purchase it. The requirements to be able to get zPDT are such that you must actively developing commercial offerings for System z and you must be actively marketing them to System z commercial clients. (Your PartnerWorld membership is reviewed.) humor type=weird Is there any significance to the fact that the company's name is ITC, which was the name I remember on the Muppet's Show and movies? /humor LOL! Space 1999. Alan Altmark z/VM Development IBM Endicott -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- Email Disclaimer This E-mail contains confidential information belonging to the sender, which may be legally privileged information. This information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity addressed above. If you are not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in reliance on the contents of the E-mail or attached files is strictly prohibited. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy
-Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:linux-...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of Ron Wells Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 12:15 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy Shame IBM forgot whom made ... over the decades ... z/OS what it is today ... Letting hobbist take advantage would strengthen z/OS in the real world .. an lead to more z/OS shop's...guess they just do not get it .. they use too.. I don't think IBM ever had a hobbiest type license. It's just that they used to distribute source. Which some advanced shops enhanced. That, IMO, is what made OS/360 work. Imagine no HASP or ASP in the olden days. But, in today's environment, management would NEVER allow the mad sysprogs to modify the OS. That would kill support and make the sysprog a valuable asset. Which would put the company in a bad way because they couldn't easily replace him/her with a newbie at less salary (which increases their end of year bonus). The above is exactly why I like Linux, *BSD, and other FOSS software. I can learn it and from it. I can modify it if I get the itch (not likely in the case of the kernel as it is a very complicated piece of software). But, even with Linux on the z, there are most likely no shops which allow for local user modifications. They might not even allow regenerating the kernel with different options as that would kill their support contracts with RedHat or Novell ( I think it would). -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy
On Tue, 2009-11-10 at 13:01 -0500, Alan Altmark wrote: LOL! Space 1999. Fireball XL5! (sorry, couldna' resist) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 1:08 PM, Paul Dembry p...@trifox.com wrote: Is there any significance to the fact that the company's name is ITC, which was the name I remember on the Muppet's Show and movies? /humor LOL! Space 1999. Ah, a fond old memory dredged up from the dark corners of my aging brain. And Thunderbirds as well. Thanks! Paul Hello! I remember that! The creator of that one also made several shows using a similar style of presentation. But that silly show that you've mentioned first wasn't the first live action one, it was UFO. But here's the amusing thought, these were all made for US consumption. - Gregg C Levine gregg.drw...@gmail.com This signature was once found posting rude messages in English in the Moscow subway. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy
It's about time, it's about space, it's about strange people in the strangest place. --- gregg.drw...@gmail.com wrote: From: Gregg Levine gregg.drw...@gmail.com To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 14:09:52 -0500 On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 1:08 PM, Paul Dembry p...@trifox.com wrote: Is there any significance to the fact that the company's name is ITC, which was the name I remember on the Muppet's Show and movies? /humor LOL! Space 1999. Ah, a fond old memory dredged up from the dark corners of my aging brain. And Thunderbirds as well. Thanks! Paul Hello! I remember that! The creator of that one also made several shows using a similar style of presentation. But that silly show that you've mentioned first wasn't the first live action one, it was UFO. But here's the amusing thought, these were all made for US consumption. - Gregg C Levine gregg.drw...@gmail.com This signature was once found posting rude messages in English in the Moscow subway. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 _ Netscape. Just the Net You Need.
Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy
According to the FAQ handily posted by David Andrews, the suggested costs start at $3750 a year. Subject to negotiation, of course. Definitely out of range for the hobbiest. Unlikely (in our shop) to be justified for training, too. :-( The price of *one* decently-equipped Intel server? Wow. Maybe a bunch of us should club together for a 3-way box -- 10-20 people put up $300-400/yr -- that'd be doable. Be a nifty offering for one of the user groups... (WAVV, hint, hint) -- db -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy
On Tuesday, 11/10/2009 at 11:53 EST, Patrick Spinler spinler.patr...@mayo.edu wrote: Definitely out of range for the hobbiest. Unlikely (in our shop) to be justified for training, too. :-( Sorry, Pat, but zPDT would not be available to Mayo unless you started to develop System z software to sell and you were using zPDT as a development system. Its use as a training vehicle would be limited to your commercial software developers, though you could use it to demo your product. Bottom line, zPDT is available only to software vendors (ISVs). Alan Altmark z/VM Development IBM Endicott -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy
On Tuesday, 11/10/2009 at 02:28 EST, David Boyes dbo...@sinenomine.net wrote: Maybe a bunch of us should club together for a 3-way box -- 10-20 people put up $300-400/yr -- that'd be doable. Be a nifty offering for one of the user groups... (WAVV, hint, hint) Sorry, but sharing among diffferent ISVs is not permitted under the terms of the agreement. Alan Altmark z/VM Development IBM Endicott -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy
-Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:linux-...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of David Boyes Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 1:27 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy According to the FAQ handily posted by David Andrews, the suggested costs start at $3750 a year. Subject to negotiation, of course. Definitely out of range for the hobbiest. Unlikely (in our shop) to be justified for training, too. :-( The price of *one* decently-equipped Intel server? Wow. Maybe a bunch of us should club together for a 3-way box -- 10-20 people put up $300-400/yr -- that'd be doable. Be a nifty offering for one of the user groups... (WAVV, hint, hint) -- db I doubt, from what others here have said, that WAVV would qualify for a zPDT license. It is apparently strictly for an ISV who is approved by PartnerWorld. Which organization likely requires some sort of prospectus on the software and who will be developing it. I doub that it could not be opened up to anyone on the Internet. Or even a consortium of hobbists. -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy
Sorry, but sharing among diffferent ISVs is not permitted under the terms of the agreement. *sigh* Bloody lawyers. First against the wall... -- db -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy
Switching to Education for a sec... IBM is pouring lots of cash into the zNextGen project (kudos for that). It seems to this feeble mind that making an affordable (to a college student) System z image, with the appropriate restrictions, as an educational platform, would make a lot of sense (and future cash). Since the technology is already there in zPDT, what would be the issue? (The other Pat) Patrick Carroll | Enterprise Technical Architect L.L.Bean, Inc.(r) | Double L St. | Freeport ME 04033 http://www.llbean.com | pcarr...@llbean.com | 207.552.2426 CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is solely for the use of the intended recipient(s). Any disclosure, copying, distribution, or other use of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete this message. -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:linux-...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of Alan Altmark Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 2:35 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy On Tuesday, 11/10/2009 at 11:53 EST, Patrick Spinler spinler.patr...@mayo.edu wrote: Definitely out of range for the hobbiest. Unlikely (in our shop) to be justified for training, too. :-( Sorry, Pat, but zPDT would not be available to Mayo unless you started to develop System z software to sell and you were using zPDT as a development system. Its use as a training vehicle would be limited to your commercial software developers, though you could use it to demo your product. Bottom line, zPDT is available only to software vendors (ISVs). Alan Altmark z/VM Development IBM Endicott -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy
-Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:linux-...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of David Boyes Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 1:42 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy Sorry, but sharing among diffferent ISVs is not permitted under the terms of the agreement. *sigh* Bloody lawyers. First against the wall... -- db Not the lawyers' fault. Blame IBM management. They don't want to bother. Probably due to costs to them. I would love to get a z/OS license with the no support option. One time change. No access to PTFs. No access to IBMLink. In any case, if anybody could come up with a different system which could be 100% object code compatible at the application level (the instructions that you and I use), I'd bet that the z would die in 6 months. -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy
Switching to Education for a sec... IBM is pouring lots of cash into the zNextGen project (kudos for that). It seems to this feeble mind that making an affordable (to a college student) System z image, with the appropriate restrictions, as an educational platform, would make a lot of sense (and future cash). Since the technology is already there in zPDT, what would be the issue? (The other Pat) An interesting parallel: HP maintains a small but growing number of VMS, MUMPS and RT-11 enthusiasts with a very lively hobbyist program. $30/media set, you provide your own hardware -- available if you are a member of DECUS (or whatever it's called these days). http://www.openvmshobbyist.com/news.php has more details. (BTW, I have finished the ES40 Alpha emulator port, which is legitimately licensable by HP to run VMS in a z/VM virtual machine...8-)). Still working on Tru64 support, though. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy
Not the lawyers' fault. Blame IBM management. They don't want to bother. Probably due to costs to them. I would love to get a z/OS license with the no support option. One time change. No access to PTFs. No access to IBMLink. It's interesting that the HP program I mentioned is managed by the principal VMS user group, not by HP itself. Maybe that would be a good option for SHARE/WAVV to take on. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Alan Altmark wrote: Bottom line, zPDT is available only to software vendors (ISVs). So, end result, there's no inexpensive desktop viable evaluation, training or hobbiest option available for non ISVs, period. - From the amount of traffic in this this thread, it sounds like I'm not the only person who'd appreciate having such a thing available. How can we customers request such a thing from IBM? If enough customers ask, I'd hope IBM management would at least consider making such available. - -- Pat -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkr5zgQACgkQNObCqA8uBsyXsgCggNPdhKYyTlKaB8cxuwOWPYs+ s0gAnRug58elgSODTHpLrzHk6MRJ+ZHc =raeD -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy
It will have any effect.Management missed mark on OS2 think they would change now..politics /bottom dollar / profits only if you spend days/weeks/months/years of wasting time justifying a no brainier --- pin heads with no insight -- From: Patrick Spinler spinler.patr...@mayo.edu To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Date: 11/10/2009 02:34 PM Subject: Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy Sent by: Linux on 390 Port LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Alan Altmark wrote: Bottom line, zPDT is available only to software vendors (ISVs). So, end result, there's no inexpensive desktop viable evaluation, training or hobbiest option available for non ISVs, period. - From the amount of traffic in this this thread, it sounds like I'm not the only person who'd appreciate having such a thing available. How can we customers request such a thing from IBM? If enough customers ask, I'd hope IBM management would at least consider making such available. - -- Pat -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkr5zgQACgkQNObCqA8uBsyXsgCggNPdhKYyTlKaB8cxuwOWPYs+ s0gAnRug58elgSODTHpLrzHk6MRJ+ZHc =raeD -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- Email Disclaimer This E-mail contains confidential information belonging to the sender, which may be legally privileged information. This information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity addressed above. If you are not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in reliance on the contents of the E-mail or attached files is strictly prohibited. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy
-Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:linux-...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of Patrick Spinler Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 2:33 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Alan Altmark wrote: Bottom line, zPDT is available only to software vendors (ISVs). So, end result, there's no inexpensive desktop viable evaluation, training or hobbiest option available for non ISVs, period. - From the amount of traffic in this this thread, it sounds like I'm not the only person who'd appreciate having such a thing available. How can we customers request such a thing from IBM? If enough customers ask, I'd hope IBM management would at least consider making such available. - -- Pat As in all things in a capitalist country: Money talks. Speech doesn't. Or, as is sometimes said by IBMers on the IBM-MAIN list: Show us a business case which will make us money and we'll pay attention. Unsaid is: Otherwise you're elided in the wind. -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Where does games come from?
Alan Altmark wrote: Ah, semantics. :-) People arbitrate (decide). Machines obey. The mere presence of a user account does not justify its existence. The justification is the shopwork rule, If it ain't broke, don't fix it! In a Unix system, having a process to ensure that you *don't* orphan files when deleting an account would seem to be de riguer. Would seem to, wouldn't it? Some do. Some don't. The one constant is change and so I suggest that no auditor or sysadmin will know all necessary and not necessary accounts, and that they must work together to turn the unknown into the known. Don't mess with accounts[uid 100] installed by the default install is not a bad rule. Same thing on z/VM: If you don't remove the objects created by or for a user, and scrub all of your authorization lists when you delete a virtual machine, you shouldn't ever reuse a z/VM user ID. Example: SFS directories. Good procedure. No one sane would re-use the games uid anyway, it's 100 and thus customary on your flavor of Linux. Break custom at yer own risk! -- Jack J. Woehr# «'I know what it means well enough, when I find http://www.well.com/~jax # a thing,' said the Duck: 'it's generally a frog or http://www.softwoehr.com # a worm.'» - Lewis Carroll, _Alice in Wonderland_ -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy
I agree, it's all about money. It seems to me that an educational license would be a *good* long term investment, even if a few are abused. Or maybe IBM's commitment to the NextGen is not as strong as we are led to believe. Patrick Carroll | Enterprise Technical Architect L.L.Bean, Inc.(r) | Double L St. | Freeport ME 04033 http://www.llbean.com | pcarr...@llbean.com | 207.552.2426 CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is solely for the use of the intended recipient(s). Any disclosure, copying, distribution, or other use of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete this message. -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:linux-...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of McKown, John Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 3:43 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:linux-...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of Patrick Spinler Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 2:33 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Alan Altmark wrote: Bottom line, zPDT is available only to software vendors (ISVs). So, end result, there's no inexpensive desktop viable evaluation, training or hobbiest option available for non ISVs, period. - From the amount of traffic in this this thread, it sounds like I'm not the only person who'd appreciate having such a thing available. How can we customers request such a thing from IBM? If enough customers ask, I'd hope IBM management would at least consider making such available. - -- Pat As in all things in a capitalist country: Money talks. Speech doesn't. Or, as is sometimes said by IBMers on the IBM-MAIN list: Show us a business case which will make us money and we'll pay attention. Unsaid is: Otherwise you're elided in the wind. -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Pat Carroll wrote: I agree, it's all about money. It seems to me that an educational license would be a *good* long term investment, even if a few are abused. Or maybe IBM's commitment to the NextGen is not as strong as we are led to believe. As I mentioned in my first message, it works for Linux: IBM makes at least some money from reselling and supporting that. I'd argue that much of the reason for it's popularity is that (versions of it) are freely available to play with. - -- Pat -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkr52UcACgkQNObCqA8uBswopgCfViFNkrsdBRTDvioBPcle22nR wekAoIvpvNJLKEPN1i8QMog5SHnGzx/I =VvcB -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy
-Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:linux-...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of Patrick Spinler Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 3:21 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Pat Carroll wrote: I agree, it's all about money. It seems to me that an educational license would be a *good* long term investment, even if a few are abused. Or maybe IBM's commitment to the NextGen is not as strong as we are led to believe. As I mentioned in my first message, it works for Linux: IBM makes at least some money from reselling and supporting that. I'd argue that much of the reason for it's popularity is that (versions of it) are freely available to play with. - -- Pat And another way that Linux is similar to OS/360 is that IBM makes its money mainly by selling hardware to run it. Originally the OSes on the S/360 were totally free of charge. Today, they are the main profit center. -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy
too bad the management have NO vision anymore the money to be made would be ??? From: McKown, John john.mck...@healthmarkets.com To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Date: 11/10/2009 03:30 PM Subject: Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy Sent by: Linux on 390 Port LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:linux-...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of Patrick Spinler Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 3:21 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Pat Carroll wrote: I agree, it's all about money. It seems to me that an educational license would be a *good* long term investment, even if a few are abused. Or maybe IBM's commitment to the NextGen is not as strong as we are led to believe. As I mentioned in my first message, it works for Linux: IBM makes at least some money from reselling and supporting that. I'd argue that much of the reason for it's popularity is that (versions of it) are freely available to play with. - -- Pat And another way that Linux is similar to OS/360 is that IBM makes its money mainly by selling hardware to run it. Originally the OSes on the S/360 were totally free of charge. Today, they are the main profit center. -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- Email Disclaimer This E-mail contains confidential information belonging to the sender, which may be legally privileged information. This information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity addressed above. If you are not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in reliance on the contents of the E-mail or attached files is strictly prohibited. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy
but they would rather make 100k on 1000 user vs 10k on 100,000 users . From: McKown, John john.mck...@healthmarkets.com To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Date: 11/10/2009 03:30 PM Subject: Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy Sent by: Linux on 390 Port LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:linux-...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of Patrick Spinler Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 3:21 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Pat Carroll wrote: I agree, it's all about money. It seems to me that an educational license would be a *good* long term investment, even if a few are abused. Or maybe IBM's commitment to the NextGen is not as strong as we are led to believe. As I mentioned in my first message, it works for Linux: IBM makes at least some money from reselling and supporting that. I'd argue that much of the reason for it's popularity is that (versions of it) are freely available to play with. - -- Pat And another way that Linux is similar to OS/360 is that IBM makes its money mainly by selling hardware to run it. Originally the OSes on the S/360 were totally free of charge. Today, they are the main profit center. -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- Email Disclaimer This E-mail contains confidential information belonging to the sender, which may be legally privileged information. This information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity addressed above. If you are not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in reliance on the contents of the E-mail or attached files is strictly prohibited. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy
-Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:linux-...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of Ron Wells Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 3:32 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy too bad the management have NO vision anymore the money to be made would be ??? Is is always management? Or is some of it Wall Street? And the investors. Investors today want a __fast__ turnaround on their money. Not years, but a few months. If IBM comes up with something that will make money in 2 years, most investors would say: So what? What have you done for me TODAY??? Greed is rampant in the entire society from the bottom to the top. I want it NOW, NOW, NOW!!! is the only valid mantra. -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy
Seems more and more that people are exclusively expenses rather than investments nowadays. When was the last time your employer invested in training (of any kind) for you? -jc- -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:linux-...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of Pat Carroll Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 2:52 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy I agree, it's all about money. It seems to me that an educational license would be a *good* long term investment, even if a few are abused. Or maybe IBM's commitment to the NextGen is not as strong as we are led to believe. Patrick Carroll | Enterprise Technical Architect L.L.Bean, Inc.(r) | Double L St. | Freeport ME 04033 http://www.llbean.com | pcarr...@llbean.com | 207.552.2426 CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is solely for the use of the intended recipient(s). Any disclosure, copying, distribution, or other use of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete this message. -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:linux-...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of McKown, John Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 3:43 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:linux-...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of Patrick Spinler Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 2:33 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Alan Altmark wrote: Bottom line, zPDT is available only to software vendors (ISVs). So, end result, there's no inexpensive desktop viable evaluation, training or hobbiest option available for non ISVs, period. - From the amount of traffic in this this thread, it sounds like I'm not the only person who'd appreciate having such a thing available. How can we customers request such a thing from IBM? If enough customers ask, I'd hope IBM management would at least consider making such available. - -- Pat As in all things in a capitalist country: Money talks. Speech doesn't. Or, as is sometimes said by IBMers on the IBM-MAIN list: Show us a business case which will make us money and we'll pay attention. Unsaid is: Otherwise you're elided in the wind. -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy
On Wed, November 11, 2009 10:21, Patrick Spinler wrote: As I mentioned in my first message, it works for Linux: IBM makes at least some money from reselling and supporting that. I'd argue that much of the reason for it's popularity is that (versions of it) are freely available to play with. Indeed. One early impetus for the development of Linux (and the free BSDs) was people wanting Unix at home for non-exorbitant prices. You'll note the fate of the commercial Unix vendors. zVM won't have the same rate, of course, but convincing people to chose zVM instead of other virtualisation technologies is a lot easier if they can, e.g., play with it under Herc with minimal effort. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy
On Wed, November 11, 2009 10:54, Chase, John wrote: Seems more and more that people are exclusively expenses rather than investments nowadays. When was the last time your employer invested in training (of any kind) for you? About 3 weeks ago when they sent a bunch of us to the Brisbane conference. Not all employers are terminally short-sighted. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy
-Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:linux-...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of Chase, John Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 3:54 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy Seems more and more that people are exclusively expenses rather than investments nowadays. When was the last time your employer invested in training (of any kind) for you? -jc- This employer? Never. The closest they come is to allow us to attend Webinars and cost-free seminars and classes during normal working hours, without taking the time as vacation. Locally, unless we are willing to pay the travel expenses. -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy
-Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:linux-...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of McKown, John Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 3:40 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:linux-...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of Ron Wells Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 3:32 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy too bad the management have NO vision anymore the money to be made would be ??? Is is always management? Or is some of it Wall Street? And the investors. Investors today want a __fast__ turnaround on their money. Not years, but a few months. If IBM comes up with something that will make money in 2 years, most investors would say: So what? What have you done for me TODAY??? Greed is rampant in the entire society from the bottom to the top. I want it NOW, NOW, NOW!!! is the only valid mantra. With the Obamanation throwing around trillions of dollars the way previous administrations threw mere billions, there is real risk that the value of money tomorrow will be significantly less than today's value. So, if you can make a billion today via one action, or a few billion tomorrow via another action, paranoid prudence would seem to dictate get the 'sure' billion NOW! -jc- -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy
Regularly, for which I'm thankful. My point is targeted at the University level. Patrick Carroll | Enterprise Technical Architect L.L.Bean, Inc.(r) | Double L St. | Freeport ME 04033 http://www.llbean.com | pcarr...@llbean.com | 207.552.2426 CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is solely for the use of the intended recipient(s). Any disclosure, copying, distribution, or other use of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete this message. -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:linux-...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of Chase, John Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:54 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy Seems more and more that people are exclusively expenses rather than investments nowadays. When was the last time your employer invested in training (of any kind) for you? -jc- -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:linux-...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of Pat Carroll Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 2:52 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy I agree, it's all about money. It seems to me that an educational license would be a *good* long term investment, even if a few are abused. Or maybe IBM's commitment to the NextGen is not as strong as we are led to believe. Patrick Carroll | Enterprise Technical Architect L.L.Bean, Inc.(r) | Double L St. | Freeport ME 04033 http://www.llbean.com | pcarr...@llbean.com | 207.552.2426 CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is solely for the use of the intended recipient(s). Any disclosure, copying, distribution, or other use of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete this message. -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:linux-...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of McKown, John Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 3:43 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:linux-...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of Patrick Spinler Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 2:33 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Alan Altmark wrote: Bottom line, zPDT is available only to software vendors (ISVs). So, end result, there's no inexpensive desktop viable evaluation, training or hobbiest option available for non ISVs, period. - From the amount of traffic in this this thread, it sounds like I'm not the only person who'd appreciate having such a thing available. How can we customers request such a thing from IBM? If enough customers ask, I'd hope IBM management would at least consider making such available. - -- Pat As in all things in a capitalist country: Money talks. Speech doesn't. Or, as is sometimes said by IBMers on the IBM-MAIN list: Show us a business case which will make us money and we'll pay attention. Unsaid is: Otherwise you're elided in the wind. -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe
Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy
Folks, This is my options on letting hobbyists using Hercules for there own development. Are there any applications, tools that was developed because of H. From: Ron Wells rwe...@agfinance.com To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Date: 11/10/2009 01:16 PM Subject:Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy Sent by:Linux on 390 Port LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Shame IBM forgot whom made ... over the decades ... z/OS what it is today ... Letting hobbist take advantage would strengthen z/OS in the real world .. an lead to more z/OS shop's...guess they just do not get it .. they use too.. From: Alan Altmark alan_altm...@us.ibm.com To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Date: 11/10/2009 12:02 PM Subject: Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy Sent by: Linux on 390 Port LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU On Tuesday, 11/10/2009 at 11:29 EST, McKown, John john.mck...@healthmarkets.com wrote: Thanks - quick look puts this way, way beyond a hobbist. I.e. all I am interested in is porting GNU software to z/OS UNIX. There is no income in that, just street cred. Looks very nice for a smaller ISV. The program is definitely for software vendors (businesses), not hobbyists. In fact, it would not be made available to a hobbyist, even if you wanted to purchase it. The requirements to be able to get zPDT are such that you must actively developing commercial offerings for System z and you must be actively marketing them to System z commercial clients. (Your PartnerWorld membership is reviewed.) humor type=weird Is there any significance to the fact that the company's name is ITC, which was the name I remember on the Muppet's Show and movies? /humor LOL! Space 1999. Alan Altmark z/VM Development IBM Endicott -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- Email Disclaimer This E-mail contains confidential information belonging to the sender, which may be legally privileged information. This information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity addressed above. If you are not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in reliance on the contents of the E-mail or attached files is strictly prohibited. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 Visit our website at http://www.nyse.com Note: The information contained in this message and any attachment to it is privileged, confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by replying to the message, and please delete it from your system. Thank you. NYSE Euronext. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy
On Tuesday, 11/10/2009 at 03:34 EST, Patrick Spinler spinler.patr...@mayo.edu wrote: So, end result, there's no inexpensive desktop viable evaluation, training or hobbiest option available for non ISVs, period. If you are a System z customer and want to evaluate a new solution, but don't have the hardware resources to do so, discuss it with your BP or IBM rep. There are often ways to get you what you need; it depends on your needs. But if you don't ask, you don't get. Alan Altmark z/VM Development IBM Endicott -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy
On Tue, 10 Nov 2009, Eddie Chen wrote: This is my options on letting hobbyists using Hercules for there own development. Are there any applications, tools that was developed because of H. Well, yes actually. The CentOS 'community sources rebuild' project first bootstrapped into the released s390 spin through such a Hercules instance. Earlier: Patrick Spinler spinler.patr...@mayo.edu wrote: So, end result, there's no inexpensive desktop viable evaluation, training or hobbiest option available for non ISVs, period. so bleak a thread --- I don't get why people are 'down' on IBM or its non-commercial community facing efforts. Here, and in the Linux oriented 'chiphopper' program, they've been easy to work with, and most accomodating. I'd _like_ a dongle, but in all honesty, don't _need_ it on the locla machine enough to make the pricing point I see in the ratesheet a compelling one. What foss toolchain oriented developer ** needs ** a local desktop environment to develop on, except when at the beach on holiday, or on a vehicle not connected to part of the internet? The kind availability of access through IBM's virtual instance loaners, and the much appreciated effort of John Schnitzler Jr on some tweaks (not only incident to my personal work on centos, and as an ISV) were and are most appreciated, and permitted me to confirm functionality and identify some needed changes. Thanks, John and IBM -- Russ herrold herr...@centos.org -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: SLES10 SP3 Installation Tidbit for Layer 2 NICs
WAVV requirement WRIBDB09 submitted to display MACs in canonical form. On 10/22/09 7:44 PM, Mark Post mp...@novell.com wrote: I just learned something unfortunate about installing SLES10 SP3 using Layer 2 network interfaces on z/VM. For people like me that want to have a complete parmfile so they're not being prompted for all the network information every time an install is done, this might bite you. When you specify the NICs MAC via the OSAHWaddr parameter, it might be tempting to do something like a q nic VDEVNO and cut and paste the MAC address from that into the parmfile. It will work in that you won't get prompted for it during the network setup part, but it will cause the installer to write out malformed configuration files for the interface, and when the system reboots for the second phase of the install, your network won't come up. The key appears to be that z/VM displays the MAC as 02-00-00-00-00-20 and Linux expects it to be 02:00:00:00:00:20 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy
On 11/10/09 2:29 PM, Eddie Chen ec...@nyx.com wrote: Folks, This is my options on letting hobbyists using Hercules for there own development. Are there any applications, tools that was developed because of H. Somewhat of a chicken/egg problem. There is no evidence of such because there has never been a legitimate legal way to test the hypothesis with anything other than Linux (and soon OpenSolaris), neither of which are controlled by IBM, and both of which have better performing alternatives for developers. If you extrapolate from the FlexES, MP3000 and P390/R390 worlds, then yes, significant numbers of tools (particularly in the z/VM and z/VSE world) depended greatly on low-cost development systems and very low cost production systems with emulated devices. A lot of smaller VSE shops pretty much scraped by on P390 and R390 hardware for a very long time, and most stayed on the platform because there was a low-cost option that was good enough -- those people didn't go to z/OS or bigger systems because they didn't need them, and their options were to go to Solaris or some other platform if they couldn't stay on the little 390. I don't think it's too much of an exaggeration to say that most of the small vendors that sell System Z software are all either current or ex-P390 or Flex users -- the CA's and BMCs of the world had real big iron, but the little guys didn't and most still don't. Leasing space on a IBM-owned machine is expensive and feels odd and/or insecure, especially if you create a product that competes with an IBM product in a similar niche, and the public options like OSDL and LCDS are either old technology or limited in what they permit you to do. That said, look at the tools most of us depend on: VMARC, SWAPGEN, TRACK, etc. Most were done on people's own time and many are distributed free, but the gate has been that our employers allowed us to effectively steal the machine time to do something we love. I'd sure like to be able to own that resource to let me do what I like doing without depending on someone's good graces. I'm willing to pay a reasonable amount for that -- but there's no way to do so. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy
On 11/10/09 3:51 PM, Pat Carroll pcarr...@llbean.com wrote: I agree, it's all about money. It seems to me that an educational license would be a *good* long term investment, even if a few are abused. Or maybe IBM's commitment to the NextGen is not as strong as we are led to believe. By observation, the death spiral for VM licenses in educational institutions accelrated dramatically with the death of the HESC (higher ed software consortium) program, which had reasonable pricing for eductional use of software, etc. A zPDT-like solution administered by someone like SHARE or WAVV would be a very attractive way to lure them back. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy
Patrick Spinler wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Alan Altmark wrote: Bottom line, zPDT is available only to software vendors (ISVs). So, end result, there's no inexpensive desktop viable evaluation, training or hobbiest option available for non ISVs, period. - From the amount of traffic in this this thread, it sounds like I'm not the only person who'd appreciate having such a thing available. How can we customers request such a thing from IBM? If enough customers ask, I'd hope IBM management would at least consider making such available. At one point I was running MVS 3.08 under Hercules. I'd have loved to use something more recent, to refresh and update my skills. I quite liked writing programs in assembler, but there's little point to writing for S/370, no matter how well I did it, it would not lead to employment or software sales. I couldn't even get the JES2 exits I wrote working, they were written for a PP JES2. As for Linux, there's not that much difference between Linux on a current AMD-64-compatible system and Linux on a Zed - especially an emulated Zed -- Cheers John -- spambait 1...@coco.merseine.nu z1...@coco.merseine.nu -- Advice http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 You cannot reply off-list:-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: zSeries OS licenses, Was: Re: ch-0.0.0e21 (TX in ch_action_txretry): Busy
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Alan Altmark wrote: If you are a System z customer and want to evaluate a new solution, but don't have the hardware resources to do so, discuss it with your BP or IBM rep. There are often ways to get you what you need; it depends on your needs. But if you don't ask, you don't get. Sure, it's just that there's a considerable degree of bureaucratic overhead. Compare and contrast: Manager: you want to spend time doing what, and you need me to sign off? Does this need official project approval? How will you bill your time? and IBM Rep: Sure, we can work up a demo of X, if you know ahead of time exactly what X is and how it might help make a sale down the line. v. Dev/Admin: Hm, I've got a couple slow hours tonight while this (batch job runs / system installs / firmware burns ...), I think I'll load up X and check it out. (week or two of late nights later) Hey, boss, we could make use of this cool thing! Certainly, in my shop, several of our major initiatives started out as skunk works projects. I can't imagine it's all that different elsewhere. In essence, I argue IBM is missing the chance to have us skilled, keenly interested engineers act as internal sales and marketing for you. I mean, we do that already, but there's a world of difference between being able to *show* your boss a working solution, v. just attempt to sell them on a possibility. Further, we ourselves often might not know ahead of time what will come out of some experimenting with things. - -- Pat -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkr6SoUACgkQNObCqA8uBswi7wCgjSZ9YzW2GgeO70Wh43AAgJeV CJkAnjRgMrr8G5HZ93a+OL42+w3sWXsi =xQsm -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
