Re: Migration Off Reiser
Adam Thornton wrote: On Feb 12, 2009, at 9:26 AM, Jack Woehr wrote: Scully, William P wrote: Does anyone know of a document which describes a well-accepted technique for migrating a server's file systems from one format to another? The classic one is to boot off cd and move stuff. If you are booted to a ramdisk and have one file system (e.g., the real hardddrive root file system) mounted as /old and the new filesystem mounted as /new then in the Bourne shell or bash you can do something like: $ cd /old; tar cf - . | (cd /new; tar xf -) Rather than cd, I use -C on the tar command. If you're on a Linux box, though, cp -a does a fine job of preserving file permissions and symlinks and so forth and you don't need the tar. tar xpC /mnt/new does a fine job of preserving stuff. More generally, and not specifically Zed, 1. tar _might_ be faster 2. The tar solution can be enhanced to copy over a network tar . | ssh there tar xp 3. Sometimes, the buffer command might improve things. This might be so if each tar spends time waiting on the other. 4. Sometimes over a network, one might prefer to compress the data. If I were copying from one partition on a disk to another, I'd probably use tar and (if I had it) buffer. However, it'd not discard the possibility of using rsync. On Zed's disks, the choice probably comes down to typing. I would, though, read the man page. There might be a finer point your advisors have overlooked. In general, you can just mount the new filesystem, and then do cp -ax (stay on the same filesystem) for each one you want to copy. The tricky part is, things like databases need to be quiesced first, so you don't end up with inconsistent files, and you don't get a point in time copy. Hence the recommendation for booting from CD/to single- user mode and doing it that way. To put it straight, you don't want anything changing your files while you're copying them. a point in time copy is the best you'd manage, I don't think it would be that good, in the case of a database. Especially if the database comprises more than one file. The only remaining concern I can think of is extended attributes and ACLs. If any of your files have extended attributes or ACLs, you probably want to preserve them. Read the documents for your candidate weapons and see what it says. Until recently, tar and other traditional Unix commands on OS X did not do extended attributes. See also getfattr(1) getfacl(1) -- Cheers John -- spambait 1...@coco.merseine.nu z1...@coco.merseine.nu -- Advice http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 You cannot reply off-list:-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Migration Off Reiser
I believe that Reiser is no longer a preferred file system. Does anyone know of a document which describes a well-accepted technique for migrating a server's file systems from one format to another? Likely we'll be moving (back) to EXT3. Thanks in advance for any pointers! -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Migration Off Reiser
Scully, William P wrote: Does anyone know of a document which describes a well-accepted technique for migrating a server's file systems from one format to another? The classic one is to boot off cd and move stuff. If you are booted to a ramdisk and have one file system (e.g., the real hardddrive root file system) mounted as /old and the new filesystem mounted as /new then in the Bourne shell or bash you can do something like: $ cd /old; tar cf - . | (cd /new; tar xf -) -- Jack J. Woehr# I run for public office from time to time. It's like http://www.well.com/~jax # working out at the gym, you sweat a lot, don't get http://www.softwoehr.com # anywhere, and you fall asleep easily afterwards. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Migration Off Reiser
On Feb 12, 2009, at 9:26 AM, Jack Woehr wrote: Scully, William P wrote: Does anyone know of a document which describes a well-accepted technique for migrating a server's file systems from one format to another? The classic one is to boot off cd and move stuff. If you are booted to a ramdisk and have one file system (e.g., the real hardddrive root file system) mounted as /old and the new filesystem mounted as /new then in the Bourne shell or bash you can do something like: $ cd /old; tar cf - . | (cd /new; tar xf -) If you're on a Linux box, though, cp -a does a fine job of preserving file permissions and symlinks and so forth and you don't need the tar. In general, you can just mount the new filesystem, and then do cp -ax (stay on the same filesystem) for each one you want to copy. The tricky part is, things like databases need to be quiesced first, so you don't end up with inconsistent files, and you don't get a point in time copy. Hence the recommendation for booting from CD/to single- user mode and doing it that way. Adam -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Migration Off Reiser
Hey Scully, the best way we have found is to tar up your data to a file (we use VTS) then just make the new filesystem clean, and untar. 'Where ever you go - There you are!! ' Richard (Gaz) Gasiorowski System z - Linux Product Manager Portfolio Platform Services CSC 3170 Fairview Park Dr., Falls Church, VA 22042 845-773-9243 Work|845-392-7889 Cell|rgasi...@csc.com|www.csc.com This is a PRIVATE message. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete without copying and kindly advise us by e-mail of the mistake in delivery. NOTE: Regardless of content, this e-mail shall not operate to bind CSC to any order or other contract unless pursuant to explicit written agreement or government initiative expressly permitting the use of e-mail for such purpose. Scully, William P william.scu...@ca.com Sent by: Linux on 390 Port LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU 02/12/2009 10:08 AM Please respond to Linux on 390 Port LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU To LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU cc Subject Migration Off Reiser I believe that Reiser is no longer a preferred file system. Does anyone know of a document which describes a well-accepted technique for migrating a server's file systems from one format to another? Likely we'll be moving (back) to EXT3. Thanks in advance for any pointers! -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Migration Off Reiser
Use rsync -- create the ext3 directory (/new) and: rsync -av /old/ /new Be sure and use the trailing / after /old to avoid it creating a /old dir under /new.. There's no way I know of to directly convert a filesystem (other than ext2 to ext3) -- so you'll have to do some type of copy .. the above preserves everything and hasn't failed me yet.. Scott On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 8:08 AM, Scully, William P william.scu...@ca.comwrote: I believe that Reiser is no longer a preferred file system. Does anyone know of a document which describes a well-accepted technique for migrating a server's file systems from one format to another? Likely we'll be moving (back) to EXT3. Thanks in advance for any pointers! -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Migration Off Reiser
Hello William and list, I have seen in most recent publication from the IBM Platform Evaluation Team for Linux on system z has documented their approach on page 267 (going by the page number in the document). http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/epubs/pdf/e0z1p170.pdf That book contains a lot of useful things this list might enjoy. It also talks about converting to disk-by-path. For what it is worth, page 235 to the end is the Linux half of the document. The z/OS stuff is up front. -- Sincerely, Eli M. Dow Ph.D. Student, Software Engineering Computer Science, Clarkson University -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Reiser
On 7/19/08 10:56 AM, John Summerfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And even then, I expect I'd need your permission to build and deploy my own kernel:-) I'm sure your standard terms do not include unknown user modifications. Well, actually, they do, and no, you don't need permission to build your own kernels. If you'd like to discuss the details of the offering, I'd love to do so off-list. -- db -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Reiser
On Jul 20, 2008, at 9:20 AM, David Boyes wrote: On 7/19/08 10:56 AM, John Summerfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And even then, I expect I'd need your permission to build and deploy my own kernel:-) I'm sure your standard terms do not include unknown user modifications. Well, actually, they do, and no, you don't need permission to build your own kernels. If you'd like to discuss the details of the offering, I'd love to do so off-list. But before anyone gets too excited: if you're having a problem that appears in your environment, but does not when a stock kernel rather than your custom build is running, you're probably going to have to tell me what you changed and why you changed it. The answer well, don't do that then may still be forthcoming. Adam -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Reiser
Adam Thornton wrote: On Jul 15, 2008, at 2:30 AM, Rob van der Heij wrote: I do know some installations have chosen not to buy support of a distribution partner but maintain skills inside the company to support their own Debian systems. No because that kernel is so much better, but because they can massage the entire provisioning and system administration process better. That is a business decision rather than a technical one, as Mark Post points out. And techies like us rarely are expected to make those. I'd like to point out--and please pardon the advertisement--that if you want to run Debian on s390, but don't have the in-house resources, Sine Nomine Associates would be *DELIGHTED* to sell you a support contract. That's because I *adore* Debian, I've spent a lot of time working with the Debian project to make sure that s390 was included in Sarge and Etch, and because selling support for it fits our usual support business model very well. However: Sine Nomine is not a major Linux distributor. We're on friendly terms with a lot of the Open Source world, but we're not Red Hat or Novell. And running commercial applications on Debian can be difficult (esp. on s390!), and we don't actually support *that* (basically, if it's in Debian main, no problem, and otherwise, ask us on a case-by-case basis). If what you need is infrastructure and Open Source software stack support, though (not limited to Debian), we'd be happy to be the throats you can choke. And even then, I expect I'd need your permission to build and deploy my own kernel:-) I'm sure your standard terms do not include unknown user modifications. -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Advice http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 You cannot reply off-list:-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Reiser
Erik N Johnson wrote: Sometimes, I see people on RHEL lists talking about building their own kernel. My advice generally goes something like 1. Check your support contract (think it says unsupported, it would if I were the vendor). 2. Use CentOS (or Scientific Linux) on that system. Sometimes I might also suggest checking the supply of CentOS kernels. Or roll your own completely from scratch. If you don't have a reason If you don't have paid support, fine. Not normally the case amongst _RHEL_ users. If they're going to invalidate their support, better off with a clone or something entirely different, where support for those who roll their own kernels is better. -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Advice http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 You cannot reply off-list:-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Debian (was Reiser)
Mark Post wrote: On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 10:40 AM, in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Jon Brock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hijack: My only exposure to Debian so far is with Ubuntu, which I recently started up in a virtual box on this PC. Is there a good reference for the differences/peculiarities of Debian versus, say, Red Hat? I would say that it would be far easier to document what is similar between the two. Basically it boils down to they're both Linux. (Somewhat of an exaggeration, of course.) I found that, in many respects, they're more alike than RHEL and SLE. -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Advice http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 You cannot reply off-list:-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Debian (was Reiser)
Douglas Wooster wrote: I've ready that Ubuntu is significantly different from the Debian it's based on, but I don't know exactly how. Recent Ubuntu releases' startup and system service control mechanisms are very different from Red Hat/Fedora's. less than you think:-) Fedora 9 has adoped upstart. Major distos such as Ubuntu and Red Hat/Fedora often have their own patches which make their version of some packages (e.g. the kernel) different from the generic version of the same release of that piece of software. Those patches may or may not eventually find their way into that piece of software'd core. E.G. Fedora has had a patch to make the root= kernel boot parameter allow identifying the root device by its volume label, instead of its device address, but the vanilla kernel doesn't recognize it (or didn't, the last time I tried it). OTOH few users would be aware of those patches. Debian's application configuration files are more likely to be in /etc/packagename my preferred configuration tool on both is vim, and mostly the methods of configuring is the same on both. I found that less so on SUSE. Some distros have used different locations for the same software. E.G. Red Hat has always put KDE in /usr, but SuSE used to put it in /opt (I have not looked at a recent version, so I don't know whether it still does that, or not). Debian does as RH here. There are an increasing number of standards (e.g. Linux Standard Base) which seek to reduce the differences between distributions. Try checking your local bookstore. There are a few magazines which devote a whole issue to a particular distribution and talk about installing and using it. I know that SAMS Publishing produces the XXX Unleashed books for several major distros, O'Reilly has a similar series, and so does at least one other publisher. I can't say how good any of them are -- the last time I bought one of those books was before the old Red Hat 7 came out. Do check the currency, quite likely you can still buy Red Hat Linux 7 Unleashed. -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Advice http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 You cannot reply off-list:-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Debian (was Reiser)
Erik N Johnson wrote: There is also a port of rpm to debian. You can therefor install rpm packages on debian, allowing you to deploy commercial software which From Debian's rpm package: -- Description: Red Hat package manager If you want to install Red Hat Packages then please use the alien package. Using rpm directly will bypass the Debian packaging system! . !-- The alien command's been around for years. is available only in rpm format. And since both debian and redhat are in fact GNU/Linux and therefor CAN present exactly the same environment to applications (not saying they do by default, they do not) so it's guaranteed that it CAN work (with enough mucking about.) But be warned, there be dragons here. Big ones. I also guarantee you nobody is going to support running an application intended for redhat on debian. I would think using the rpm command on Debian is akin to rpm2cpio | (cd /; cpio -id) and tantamount to insanity. Converting an rpm to a deb using alien provides a measure of safety. -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Advice http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 You cannot reply off-list:-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Reiser
On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 6:22 AM, Alan Altmark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You're missing our point, Erik. Making a change, whether Good or Ill, eliminates the support that our employers have PAID FOR. That means no support for the rest of the kernel that remained UNchanged. Not only the kernel itself, also the other commercial middleware and applications that you run there. SAP for example has a very short list of certified kernels. I do know some installations have chosen not to buy support of a distribution partner but maintain skills inside the company to support their own Debian systems. No because that kernel is so much better, but because they can massage the entire provisioning and system administration process better. That is a business decision rather than a technical one, as Mark Post points out. And techies like us rarely are expected to make those. -Rob -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Reiser
Rob van der Heij wrote: On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 6:22 AM, Alan Altmark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not only the kernel itself, also the other commercial middleware and applications that you run there. SAP for example has a very short list of certified kernels. It's not so short, so long as its either SLES or RHEL ;-) mark -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Reiser
I'm with Mark here. We run 24/7 with somewhere around 170,000 law enforcement agencies relying on this system. We have stringent configuration control and even though we can get around that (if we have to) temporarily (for emergency fixes), we ALWAYS back end the fixes back into configuration management. I suspect any large shop will do exactly the same things. We cannot afford to have people monkeying around with kernels etc. Kevin -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Erik N Johnson Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 11:17 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Reiser Sometimes, I see people on RHEL lists talking about building their own kernel. My advice generally goes something like 1. Check your support contract (think it says unsupported, it would if I were the vendor). 2. Use CentOS (or Scientific Linux) on that system. Sometimes I might also suggest checking the supply of CentOS kernels. Or roll your own completely from scratch. If you don't have a reason to build a kernel, don't. But if you have a computer capable of amazing feats of virtualization and there's something to be gained by making a change IPL a whole new kernel. Make your changes in that one. It's sand-boxed, right? Nothing is permanent here. Nobody is asking you to put your entire clientele at the mercy of some experiment. If this kind of talk makes you wince then you're right to think I should just go with the program that comes in the box that my vendor provides and not ask any questions or poke any holes in anything. If you don't have people actually programming for a mainframe on a mainframe this doesn't make any sense either. I guess my question would have to be: In an environment where changes cost people money and people are making unnecessary changes, why are you worried about reining them in? FIRE THEM. You don't praise accountants for creativity. If somebody is trying to use your very expensive machinery to solve a problem in a new and interesting way that is going to make your company money though, that's when I'm confused about why you would ever rein in the creative process. Programmers DO create things, after all. Erik Johnson On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 7:40 PM, John Summerfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Alan Altmark wrote: On Monday, 07/14/2008 at 05:55 EDT, Erik N Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Building a kernel is not a herculean task by any measure. It is completely automated and the configuration can easily be done graphically if you have an X11 server. You probably need to go looking for some literature before you try to boot up a machine as expensive as a z10 on a homebrew kernel, but scads of PC Linux users build their own kernel with every new release. The benefit is perhaps to be questioned on big iron, bearing in mind that the folks like SuSE that provide those default builds also provide lots of the actual kernel code. Besides, the peripherals on a mainframe are much less numerous and klugey, eliminating another big reason to roll your own. It's not hard, just not that useful. It's not a question of difficulty. When you build your own kernel, the support you get from the distributors evaporates. Corporate customers need someone to flog in case things go bad, ergo no custom kernels by policy. Perhaps the distributors are more tolerant of custom kernels on other platforms - I don't know. Sometimes, I see people on RHEL lists talking about building their own kernel. My advice generally goes something like 1. Check your support contract (think it says unsupported, it would if I were the vendor). 2. Use CentOS (or Scientific Linux) on that system. Sometimes I might also suggest checking the supply of CentOS kernels. -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Advice http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 You cannot reply off-list:-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Reiser
On Jul 14, 2008, at 4:53 PM, Erik N Johnson wrote: Building a kernel is not a herculean task by any measure. Agreed, but that's not the point. The point is, if you go to your distributor-from-whom-you're-buying- support, and report a problem, if you can't replicate it on the stock kernel, they're not going to help you with it. Which sort of invalidates the idea of having bought the support in the first place. Adam -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Reiser
On Jul 14, 2008, at 7:25 PM, John Summerfield wrote: Michael MacIsaac wrote: But just the fact that the community *can* pick up the source code does not mean it will happen. ReiserFS has migrated its development from the NameSys servers to kernel.org where work is continuing. Edward Shinkin and others continue to develop the filesystem in spite of Hans Reiser's murder conviction - From Linux Journal, August 2008, p.16 When? One presumes that the August issue actually comes out some time in July. That's not unusual. Adam -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Reiser
On Jul 15, 2008, at 2:30 AM, Rob van der Heij wrote: I do know some installations have chosen not to buy support of a distribution partner but maintain skills inside the company to support their own Debian systems. No because that kernel is so much better, but because they can massage the entire provisioning and system administration process better. That is a business decision rather than a technical one, as Mark Post points out. And techies like us rarely are expected to make those. I'd like to point out--and please pardon the advertisement--that if you want to run Debian on s390, but don't have the in-house resources, Sine Nomine Associates would be *DELIGHTED* to sell you a support contract. That's because I *adore* Debian, I've spent a lot of time working with the Debian project to make sure that s390 was included in Sarge and Etch, and because selling support for it fits our usual support business model very well. However: Sine Nomine is not a major Linux distributor. We're on friendly terms with a lot of the Open Source world, but we're not Red Hat or Novell. And running commercial applications on Debian can be difficult (esp. on s390!), and we don't actually support *that* (basically, if it's in Debian main, no problem, and otherwise, ask us on a case-by-case basis). If what you need is infrastructure and Open Source software stack support, though (not limited to Debian), we'd be happy to be the throats you can choke. Adam -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Reiser
One presumes that the August issue actually comes out some time in July. That's not unusual. Correct. What I wrote was the entire text of the blurb in the diff -u column. Mike MacIsaac [EMAIL PROTECTED] (845) 433-7061 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Reiser
Hijack: My only exposure to Debian so far is with Ubuntu, which I recently started up in a virtual box on this PC. Is there a good reference for the differences/peculiarities of Debian versus, say, Red Hat? Thanks, Jon snip I'd like to point out--and please pardon the advertisement--that if you want to run Debian on s390, but don't have the in-house resources, Sine Nomine Associates would be *DELIGHTED* to sell you a support contract. That's because I *adore* Debian, I've spent a lot of time working with the Debian project to make sure that s390 was included in Sarge and Etch, and because selling support for it fits our usual support business model very well. /snip -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Debian (was Reiser)
On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 10:40 AM, in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Jon Brock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hijack: My only exposure to Debian so far is with Ubuntu, which I recently started up in a virtual box on this PC. Is there a good reference for the differences/peculiarities of Debian versus, say, Red Hat? I would say that it would be far easier to document what is similar between the two. Basically it boils down to they're both Linux. (Somewhat of an exaggeration, of course.) Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Debian (was Reiser)
RedHat uses rpm files for package management - debian uses deb files. There are lots of package managers but the dpkg command is much like the rpm command. You can also use apt-get - which is somewhat like yum. To me, the package management is the most obvious difference - I'm sure there are others, but the first thing I ran into was how to install/use the packages and mgmt tools. Scott On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 11:17 AM, Mark Post [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 10:40 AM, in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Jon Brock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hijack: My only exposure to Debian so far is with Ubuntu, which I recently started up in a virtual box on this PC. Is there a good reference for the differences/peculiarities of Debian versus, say, Red Hat? I would say that it would be far easier to document what is similar between the two. Basically it boils down to they're both Linux. (Somewhat of an exaggeration, of course.) Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Debian (was Reiser)
I've ready that Ubuntu is significantly different from the Debian it's based on, but I don't know exactly how. Recent Ubuntu releases' startup and system service control mechanisms are very different from Red Hat/Fedora's. Major distos such as Ubuntu and Red Hat/Fedora often have their own patches which make their version of some packages (e.g. the kernel) different from the generic version of the same release of that piece of software. Those patches may or may not eventually find their way into that piece of software'd core. E.G. Fedora has had a patch to make the root= kernel boot parameter allow identifying the root device by its volume label, instead of its device address, but the vanilla kernel doesn't recognize it (or didn't, the last time I tried it). Some distros have used different locations for the same software. E.G. Red Hat has always put KDE in /usr, but SuSE used to put it in /opt (I have not looked at a recent version, so I don't know whether it still does that, or not). There are an increasing number of standards (e.g. Linux Standard Base) which seek to reduce the differences between distributions. Try checking your local bookstore. There are a few magazines which devote a whole issue to a particular distribution and talk about installing and using it. I know that SAMS Publishing produces the XXX Unleashed books for several major distros, O'Reilly has a similar series, and so does at least one other publisher. I can't say how good any of them are -- the last time I bought one of those books was before the old Red Hat 7 came out. Douglas On 07/15/2008 02:13:36 PM Scott Rohling wrote: RedHat uses rpm files for package management - debian uses deb files. There are lots of package managers but the dpkg command is much like the rpm command. You can also use apt-get - which is somewhat like yum. To me, the package management is the most obvious difference - I'm sure there are others, but the first thing I ran into was how to install/use the packages and mgmt tools. Scott On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 11:17 AM, Mark Post [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 10:40 AM, in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Jon Brock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hijack: My only exposure to Debian so far is with Ubuntu, which I recently started up in a virtual box on this PC. Is there a good reference for the differences/peculiarities of Debian versus, say, Red Hat? I would say that it would be far easier to document what is similar between the two. Basically it boils down to they're both Linux. (Somewhat of an exaggeration, of course.) Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Debian (was Reiser)
There is also a port of rpm to debian. You can therefor install rpm packages on debian, allowing you to deploy commercial software which is available only in rpm format. And since both debian and redhat are in fact GNU/Linux and therefor CAN present exactly the same environment to applications (not saying they do by default, they do not) so it's guaranteed that it CAN work (with enough mucking about.) But be warned, there be dragons here. Big ones. I also guarantee you nobody is going to support running an application intended for redhat on debian. Erik Johnson On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 6:58 PM, Douglas Wooster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've ready that Ubuntu is significantly different from the Debian it's based on, but I don't know exactly how. Recent Ubuntu releases' startup and system service control mechanisms are very different from Red Hat/Fedora's. Major distos such as Ubuntu and Red Hat/Fedora often have their own patches which make their version of some packages (e.g. the kernel) different from the generic version of the same release of that piece of software. Those patches may or may not eventually find their way into that piece of software'd core. E.G. Fedora has had a patch to make the root= kernel boot parameter allow identifying the root device by its volume label, instead of its device address, but the vanilla kernel doesn't recognize it (or didn't, the last time I tried it). Some distros have used different locations for the same software. E.G. Red Hat has always put KDE in /usr, but SuSE used to put it in /opt (I have not looked at a recent version, so I don't know whether it still does that, or not). There are an increasing number of standards (e.g. Linux Standard Base) which seek to reduce the differences between distributions. Try checking your local bookstore. There are a few magazines which devote a whole issue to a particular distribution and talk about installing and using it. I know that SAMS Publishing produces the XXX Unleashed books for several major distros, O'Reilly has a similar series, and so does at least one other publisher. I can't say how good any of them are -- the last time I bought one of those books was before the old Red Hat 7 came out. Douglas On 07/15/2008 02:13:36 PM Scott Rohling wrote: RedHat uses rpm files for package management - debian uses deb files. There are lots of package managers but the dpkg command is much like the rpm command. You can also use apt-get - which is somewhat like yum. To me, the package management is the most obvious difference - I'm sure there are others, but the first thing I ran into was how to install/use the packages and mgmt tools. Scott On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 11:17 AM, Mark Post [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 10:40 AM, in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Jon Brock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hijack: My only exposure to Debian so far is with Ubuntu, which I recently started up in a virtual box on this PC. Is there a good reference for the differences/peculiarities of Debian versus, say, Red Hat? I would say that it would be far easier to document what is similar between the two. Basically it boils down to they're both Linux. (Somewhat of an exaggeration, of course.) Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Reiser
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 12:49 AM, Erik N Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: for your needs. There's a whole community out there that can pick up the slack. That's the point. Not whether anybody should be hastily changing the format of enterprise file systems. Most certainly. But just the fact that the community *can* pick up the source code does not mean it will happen. And I do understand that having it included in the mainstream Linux kernel is a more solid bases (and I believe that is one of the reasons Red Hat is less eager to take s390 patches from IBM under the counter). We ran in several open source projects that seemed to fit our requirements, but turned out to be the pet project of a single developer. We did not have the skills and/or management approval to carry that work ourselves and decided to stay with mainstream solutions. Long before Linux, many large installations ended up in a similar situation because their own systems programming staff had local modifications to the OS all over the place, making it extremely risky to move from one release to the next. When we introduced Linux, management was concerned to be held hostage by open source developers. I can see how a support arrangement with a distribution partner and strict directives fit into that. -Rob -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Reiser
Rob van der Heij wrote: On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 12:49 AM, Erik N Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (and I believe that is one of the reasons Red Hat is less eager to take s390 patches from IBM under the counter). What are you inferring here?, IBM patches are now all part of the mainline kernel. You can download a recent kernel from www.kernel.org and you will see s390 code is there. They may not _all_ have gone directly into 2.6.5 but they are _all_ in 2.6.25 and many have been back-ported by RedHat and Novell-Suse into RHEL 5 and SLES 10. mark -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Reiser
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 10:04 AM, Mark Perry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rob van der Heij wrote: On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 12:49 AM, Erik N Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (and I believe that is one of the reasons Red Hat is less eager to take s390 patches from IBM under the counter). What are you inferring here?, IBM patches are now all part of the mainline kernel. You can download a recent kernel from www.kernel.org and you will see s390 code is there. Yes, I am aware that s390 is one of the architectures. But we do have areas where the priorities of the open source community may match those of large shops wanting to run Linux on the mainframe. I am pretty sure the SuSE distribution kernel has/had portions that were not (yet) accepted in the mainstream Linux sources (for example the instrumentation stuff for FCP chpids and the CMMA patches). And I also know Red Hat was traditionally unwilling to take that route. That's not good or bad to me per se, it is more a business decision of the vendor and shops buying a support arrangement with them. -Rob -- Rob van der Heij Velocity Software http://velocitysoftware.com/ -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Reiser
Rob van der Heij wrote: On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 10:04 AM, Mark Perry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rob van der Heij wrote: On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 12:49 AM, Erik N Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (and I believe that is one of the reasons Red Hat is less eager to take s390 patches from IBM under the counter). What are you inferring here?, IBM patches are now all part of the mainline kernel. You can download a recent kernel from www.kernel.org and you will see s390 code is there. Yes, I am aware that s390 is one of the architectures. But we do have areas where the priorities of the open source community may match those of large shops wanting to run Linux on the mainframe. I am pretty sure the SuSE distribution kernel has/had portions that were not (yet) accepted in the mainstream Linux sources (for example the instrumentation stuff for FCP chpids and the CMMA patches). I just downloaded 2.6.26 and found CMMA related code in: arch/s390/mm/page-states.c arch/s390/mm/init.c Of course this doesn't prove a time-line, but today the CMMA code is in the mainline kernel. I think the bigger problems were back-porting problems because the Enterprise releases from the Distributors are a long way behind the latest kernel releases. I just think it is unfair to imply that IBM is doing anything under the counter. If you watch the LKML you will frequently see contributions from IBM developers. mark -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Reiser
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 11:25 AM, Mark Perry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just think it is unfair to imply that IBM is doing anything under the counter. If you watch the LKML you will frequently see contributions from IBM developers. I did not mean that unfair and should have searched for better wording. My apologies if bothered you. I only referred to the patches published on developerWorks before they are on kernel.org. SuSE used to take things from developerWorks already where Red Hat would wait for things to be merged in. To me that is mostly a business decision. Re CMMA; I believe that's only the architecture dependent part. The more exciting part was in the common code and I don't think that is in yet. But I don't follow that as closely anymore. Rob -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Reiser
But just the fact that the community *can* pick up the source code does not mean it will happen. ReiserFS has migrated its development from the NameSys servers to kernel.org where work is continuing. Edward Shinkin and others continue to develop the filesystem in spite of Hans Reiser's murder conviction - From Linux Journal, August 2008, p.16 Mike MacIsaac [EMAIL PROTECTED] (845) 433-7061 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Reiser
There are two different problems that you allude to. There were some problems with Reiser3 that were fixed. I am not convinced that all these were found and fixed. There is also a problem with the structure of Reiser3 that is not a problem with Reiser4. This is why Hans and the other developers of ReiserFS recommend not using Reiser3. This problem with the structure is what causes problems with repairing a filesystem with fsck. -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Rob van der Heij Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 2:58 AM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Reiser On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 10:58 AM, John Summerfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I generally agree with those sentiments, but I would also consider vendor support now and in the future. I consider ReiserFS still a bit niche development. If it is not carried by the masses, some of the open source mechanisms don't scale well. It may not be tested as well on s390, for example. I believe early SuSE distributions had an endian problem in the ReiserFS utilities. I know of several installations that lost their data when fsck repaired things after an abrupt outage (could lead officials to the dead drives) I am just not very willing to try again. -Rob -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 __ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email from the State of California is for the sole use of the intended recipient and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review or use, including disclosure or distribution, is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and destroy all copies of this email. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Reiser
-Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rob van der Heij Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 2:39 AM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Reiser [snip] Long before Linux, many large installations ended up in a similar situation because their own systems programming staff had local modifications to the OS all over the place, making it extremely risky to move from one release to the next. When we introduced Linux, management was concerned to be held hostage by open source developers. I can see how a support arrangement with a distribution partner and strict directives fit into that. -Rob This is one of the things that encouraged IBM to the OCO policy. I wonder if something vaguely equivalent will occur with Linux. Or maybe management on the z will simply reign in the sysprogs from doing kernel changes. -- John McKown Senior Systems Programmer HealthMarkets Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage Administrative Services Group Information Technology The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged and/or confidential. It is for intended addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited and could, in certain circumstances, be a criminal offense. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by reply and delete this message without copying or disclosing it. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Reiser
Building a kernel is not a herculean task by any measure. It is completely automated and the configuration can easily be done graphically if you have an X11 server. You probably need to go looking for some literature before you try to boot up a machine as expensive as a z10 on a homebrew kernel, but scads of PC Linux users build their own kernel with every new release. The benefit is perhaps to be questioned on big iron, bearing in mind that the folks like SuSE that provide those default builds also provide lots of the actual kernel code. Besides, the peripherals on a mainframe are much less numerous and klugey, eliminating another big reason to roll your own. It's not hard, just not that useful. As far as the question of reining in I'm not sure what you mean. There is no way to assert any control over what code goes into the mainline kernel if you don't happen to be Linus Torvalds. As far as individual sysadmins making changes to their local installations, that's the way UNIX has always been. One great thing about it though is that you can isolate those things if you choose to. It gives you lots of flexibility. Place them somewhere else in the file-system. Use special users whose environments are intentionally different from the default. You can always use your distribution's default system along side a fairly different user environment all on one kernel. For that matter, since you're running on a mainframe, you can have as many different instances as you want all running side by side on the bare hardware OR z/VM. And if I don't sound like I'm selling for IBM yet I could point out that all those instances would be completely isolated from one another by those darned clever machines. Reining in is really the opposite of what you want to do. Mainframes give you the perfect opportunity to use a small share of your resources to explore future options while dedicating the bulk of your clock and core to tried and true methods. So you can have your default installation and eat it too, as it were. Sincerely, Erik Johnson On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 3:01 PM, Mark Post [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 3:44 PM, in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], McKown, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -snip- This is one of the things that encouraged IBM to the OCO policy. I wonder if something vaguely equivalent will occur with Linux. Or maybe management on the z will simply reign in the sysprogs from doing kernel changes. I believe very little, if any, reigning in will need to be done. Most sysadmins are too overloaded with work to be building their own kernels, etc. Most managers want their systems to be supported. Taken together, not much of that is going on, with any Linux architecture. Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Reiser
On Monday, 07/14/2008 at 05:55 EDT, Erik N Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Building a kernel is not a herculean task by any measure. It is completely automated and the configuration can easily be done graphically if you have an X11 server. You probably need to go looking for some literature before you try to boot up a machine as expensive as a z10 on a homebrew kernel, but scads of PC Linux users build their own kernel with every new release. The benefit is perhaps to be questioned on big iron, bearing in mind that the folks like SuSE that provide those default builds also provide lots of the actual kernel code. Besides, the peripherals on a mainframe are much less numerous and klugey, eliminating another big reason to roll your own. It's not hard, just not that useful. It's not a question of difficulty. When you build your own kernel, the support you get from the distributors evaporates. Corporate customers need someone to flog in case things go bad, ergo no custom kernels by policy. Perhaps the distributors are more tolerant of custom kernels on other platforms - I don't know. Alan Altmark z/VM Development IBM Endicott -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Reiser
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 6:12 PM, in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Alan Altmark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -snip- Perhaps the distributors are more tolerant of custom kernels on other platforms - I don't know. No way. You use a non-official kernel, your whole system becomes unsupported, no matter what architecture you're using. Given the huge amount of hardware that is available in the Intel/AMD world, the number of patches for various things that aren't integrated into the official source tree, etc., the temptation is certainly greater, but the potential downside is the same. Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Reiser
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 5:53 PM, in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Erik N Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Building a kernel is not a herculean task by any measure. It is completely automated and the configuration can easily be done graphically if you have an X11 server. You probably need to go looking for some literature before you try to boot up a machine as expensive as a z10 on a homebrew kernel, but scads of PC Linux users build their own kernel with every new release. Not if you're running a business on the Linux system, and you want to remain supported, regardless of the hardware running it. You're confusing technical difficulty, and business requirements and policies. Just because something can be done, doesn't mean it should be done. In the past, a lot of mainframe shops running z/OS and/or z/VM had lots, and lots of modifications to their operating systems. It made it a huge job when upgrading to the next release. Over time, the smart shops either eliminated or radically cut down on how many mods they kept around. -snip- As far as the question of reining in I'm not sure what you mean. See above. There's some perception in the mainframe world that distributed systems folks are cowboys, with little or no discipline, process, or procedure. I can certainly vouch for my previous employer that this was largely not the case. (In fact, some of our mainframe systems programmers were bigger cowboys than anyone I ever met. Oddly enough, they got a lot of credit for cleaning up the messes they created. I never understood that one.) So, given the perception, some people think it might be necessary to reign in those crazy sysadmins who will want to try and modify all sorts of things they shouldn't. In some places that might be the case. Not on my team, however. -snip- As far as individual sysadmins making changes to their local installations, that's the way UNIX has always been. Not so much these days in mature companies. The sysadmins are squeezed too tightly for time, change control is too rigorous, and mistakes are too frequently greeted with what are you going to do make sure that problem never happens again? and so are you going to fire the person that brought that system down? Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Reiser
Yes, we have a whole department dedicated to vendor flogging and no one doing any kernel building. We call that function vendor management (VM)(not to be confused with voice mail or virtual machine - VF would have been a better acronym IMHO ;). Marcy This message may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the addressee or authorized to receive this for the addressee, you must not use, copy, disclose, or take any action based on this message or any information herein. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message. Thank you for your cooperation. -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alan Altmark Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 3:12 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: [LINUX-390] Reiser On Monday, 07/14/2008 at 05:55 EDT, Erik N Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Building a kernel is not a herculean task by any measure. It is completely automated and the configuration can easily be done graphically if you have an X11 server. You probably need to go looking for some literature before you try to boot up a machine as expensive as a z10 on a homebrew kernel, but scads of PC Linux users build their own kernel with every new release. The benefit is perhaps to be questioned on big iron, bearing in mind that the folks like SuSE that provide those default builds also provide lots of the actual kernel code. Besides, the peripherals on a mainframe are much less numerous and klugey, eliminating another big reason to roll your own. It's not hard, just not that useful. It's not a question of difficulty. When you build your own kernel, the support you get from the distributors evaporates. Corporate customers need someone to flog in case things go bad, ergo no custom kernels by policy. Perhaps the distributors are more tolerant of custom kernels on other platforms - I don't know. Alan Altmark z/VM Development IBM Endicott -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Reiser
Erik N Johnson wrote: There are absolutely lots of problems with ReiserFS. It's best deployed on a home user's PC. The journaling is great if you lose power abruptly, but it's faster than some of the more mature journaling file systems. It doesn't really pose a serious threat to data integrity there because the most often anybody writes to their PC filesystem is their nervous habit of saving documents they're working on. It makes little or no sense in commercial settings where high data availability and high data integrity are paramount and where performance issues get solved with faster hardware. Why are you so dismissive of my photo collection? -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Advice http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 You cannot reply off-list:-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Reiser
Michael MacIsaac wrote: But just the fact that the community *can* pick up the source code does not mean it will happen. ReiserFS has migrated its development from the NameSys servers to kernel.org where work is continuing. Edward Shinkin and others continue to develop the filesystem in spite of Hans Reiser's murder conviction - From Linux Journal, August 2008, p.16 When? -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Advice http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 You cannot reply off-list:-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Reiser
Erik N Johnson wrote: Building a kernel is not a herculean task by any measure. It is completely automated and the configuration can easily be done graphically if you have an X11 server. You probably need to go looking for some literature before you try to boot up a machine as expensive as a z10 on a homebrew kernel, but scads of PC Linux users build their own kernel with every new release. The benefit is perhaps to be questioned on big iron, bearing in mind that the folks like SuSE that provide those default builds also provide lots of the actual kernel code. Besides, the peripherals on a mainframe are much less numerous and klugey, eliminating another big reason to roll your own. It's not hard, just not that useful. Hackers aside, it's rarely useful on little iron either. The reason most cited is to improve performance by which I expect they mean to save time sometime. They need to save a lot of time to recoup the time spent building and checking the kernel. As best I recall it took me around 90 minutes computer to build a fairly complete Fedora kernel on a Core 2 system; it would take quite a bit longer than that for me to configure a basic kernel that works. fwfw I was trying to resolve a problem and get _some_ performance with new kernels as opposed to _better_ performance. -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Advice http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 You cannot reply off-list:-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Reiser
Alan Altmark wrote: On Monday, 07/14/2008 at 05:55 EDT, Erik N Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Building a kernel is not a herculean task by any measure. It is completely automated and the configuration can easily be done graphically if you have an X11 server. You probably need to go looking for some literature before you try to boot up a machine as expensive as a z10 on a homebrew kernel, but scads of PC Linux users build their own kernel with every new release. The benefit is perhaps to be questioned on big iron, bearing in mind that the folks like SuSE that provide those default builds also provide lots of the actual kernel code. Besides, the peripherals on a mainframe are much less numerous and klugey, eliminating another big reason to roll your own. It's not hard, just not that useful. It's not a question of difficulty. When you build your own kernel, the support you get from the distributors evaporates. Corporate customers need someone to flog in case things go bad, ergo no custom kernels by policy. Perhaps the distributors are more tolerant of custom kernels on other platforms - I don't know. Sometimes, I see people on RHEL lists talking about building their own kernel. My advice generally goes something like 1. Check your support contract (think it says unsupported, it would if I were the vendor). 2. Use CentOS (or Scientific Linux) on that system. Sometimes I might also suggest checking the supply of CentOS kernels. -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Advice http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 You cannot reply off-list:-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Reiser
Sometimes, I see people on RHEL lists talking about building their own kernel. My advice generally goes something like 1. Check your support contract (think it says unsupported, it would if I were the vendor). 2. Use CentOS (or Scientific Linux) on that system. Sometimes I might also suggest checking the supply of CentOS kernels. Or roll your own completely from scratch. If you don't have a reason to build a kernel, don't. But if you have a computer capable of amazing feats of virtualization and there's something to be gained by making a change IPL a whole new kernel. Make your changes in that one. It's sand-boxed, right? Nothing is permanent here. Nobody is asking you to put your entire clientele at the mercy of some experiment. If this kind of talk makes you wince then you're right to think I should just go with the program that comes in the box that my vendor provides and not ask any questions or poke any holes in anything. If you don't have people actually programming for a mainframe on a mainframe this doesn't make any sense either. I guess my question would have to be: In an environment where changes cost people money and people are making unnecessary changes, why are you worried about reining them in? FIRE THEM. You don't praise accountants for creativity. If somebody is trying to use your very expensive machinery to solve a problem in a new and interesting way that is going to make your company money though, that's when I'm confused about why you would ever rein in the creative process. Programmers DO create things, after all. Erik Johnson On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 7:40 PM, John Summerfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Alan Altmark wrote: On Monday, 07/14/2008 at 05:55 EDT, Erik N Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Building a kernel is not a herculean task by any measure. It is completely automated and the configuration can easily be done graphically if you have an X11 server. You probably need to go looking for some literature before you try to boot up a machine as expensive as a z10 on a homebrew kernel, but scads of PC Linux users build their own kernel with every new release. The benefit is perhaps to be questioned on big iron, bearing in mind that the folks like SuSE that provide those default builds also provide lots of the actual kernel code. Besides, the peripherals on a mainframe are much less numerous and klugey, eliminating another big reason to roll your own. It's not hard, just not that useful. It's not a question of difficulty. When you build your own kernel, the support you get from the distributors evaporates. Corporate customers need someone to flog in case things go bad, ergo no custom kernels by policy. Perhaps the distributors are more tolerant of custom kernels on other platforms - I don't know. Sometimes, I see people on RHEL lists talking about building their own kernel. My advice generally goes something like 1. Check your support contract (think it says unsupported, it would if I were the vendor). 2. Use CentOS (or Scientific Linux) on that system. Sometimes I might also suggest checking the supply of CentOS kernels. -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Advice http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 You cannot reply off-list:-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Reiser
On Monday, 07/14/2008 at 11:19 EDT, Erik N Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Or roll your own completely from scratch. If you don't have a reason to build a kernel, don't. But if you have a computer capable of amazing feats of virtualization and there's something to be gained by making a change IPL a whole new kernel. Make your changes in that one. It's sand-boxed, right? Nothing is permanent here. Nobody is asking you to put your entire clientele at the mercy of some experiment. If this kind of talk makes you wince then you're right to think I should just go with the program that comes in the box that my vendor provides and not ask any questions or poke any holes in anything. If you don't have people actually programming for a mainframe on a mainframe this doesn't make any sense either. I guess my question would have to be: In an environment where changes cost people money and people are making unnecessary changes, why are you worried about reining them in? FIRE THEM. You don't praise accountants for creativity. If somebody is trying to use your very expensive machinery to solve a problem in a new and interesting way that is going to make your company money though, that's when I'm confused about why you would ever rein in the creative process. Programmers DO create things, after all. You're missing our point, Erik. Making a change, whether Good or Ill, eliminates the support that our employers have PAID FOR. That means no support for the rest of the kernel that remained UNchanged. As you say, you do those experiments in a sandbox and, if successful, you push on your distributor to include those changes so that your support contract remains in force. Or you work through LKML or other project to get those changes upstream and, eventually, they will show up in your shop, fully supported. But that's part of your company's desire have you participate in the long-term improvement of the platform. The System Programmers you find here typically have neither the time, nor mandate, to go off and be creative with the Linux kernel. They are paid to deploy Linux in a cost-effective manor to the benefit of the money-making applications. Their creativity is often exercised in the areas of custom system automation (Linux or z/VM), managing the performance of the entire System (not just one Linux), and in handling the political issues that always arise when there's a New Guy In Town. Of course, one is free to be creative on one's own time with one's own resources. Through the College of Hard Knocks, people have found that using Company resources for personal projects is a good way to give the Company an opportunity to fire you for reasons having nothing to do with Linux kernels. Alan Altmark z/VM Development IBM Endicott -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Reiser
There are absolutely lots of problems with ReiserFS. It's best deployed on a home user's PC. The journaling is great if you lose power abruptly, but it's faster than some of the more mature journaling file systems. It doesn't really pose a serious threat to data integrity there because the most often anybody writes to their PC filesystem is their nervous habit of saving documents they're working on. It makes little or no sense in commercial settings where high data availability and high data integrity are paramount and where performance issues get solved with faster hardware. The important point I was trying to make had nothing to do with the technical aspects of the software. It was just clearing up FUD. When an open source project loses its lead developer, that doesn't mean you have to throw your hands up and switch to a different software package for your needs. There's a whole community out there that can pick up the slack. That's the point. Not whether anybody should be hastily changing the format of enterprise file systems. Sorry for any confusion I may have inadvertently caused. Erik Johnson On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 4:57 AM, Rob van der Heij [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 10:58 AM, John Summerfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I generally agree with those sentiments, but I would also consider vendor support now and in the future. I consider ReiserFS still a bit niche development. If it is not carried by the masses, some of the open source mechanisms don't scale well. It may not be tested as well on s390, for example. I believe early SuSE distributions had an endian problem in the ReiserFS utilities. I know of several installations that lost their data when fsck repaired things after an abrupt outage (could lead officials to the dead drives) I am just not very willing to try again. -Rob -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Reiser
Erik N Johnson wrote: Several years ago there was a dispute over the direction that the development of the XFree86 project should take. The plan was to make substantial changes to the licensing and distribution of the software. However, the bulk of the developers found that the proposed changes were neither appropriate nor useful. Thgus they forked the project and X.org was born. Since then the team has continued to make regular releases of the project and nowadays almost all the major Linux distributions use X.org as their default X11 implementation. The reason this is possible is open source. There is no reason to believe that Mr. Reiser's conviction (which was WAY back in April) spells the demise of ReiserFS. Indeed, even the cessation of development activities by Namesys is not the end of the road. The beauty of the open source development model is that anybody with an interest in file systems can download the code (still available at kernel.org) and continue his work. In the meantime the code for ReiserFS, Reiser4 and reiserfsprogs continues to be available and is no less stable than it was before Hans agreed to reveal the location of his late wife's remains. I would therefor encourage people to choose file systems based on their relative merits, rather than concerns over continued development. It may be that bug reports go unheeded for a while. But remember, although there may be nobody around to sue if things go wrong, at least you aren't depending on the continued profitability of some company to keep your filesystem available! That's the best reason in the world to go open source! I generally agree with those sentiments, but I would also consider vendor support now and in the future. Sincerely, Erik Johnson Northern Illinois University On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 8:29 PM, Marcy Cortes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hans Reiser leads police to body: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/07/07/BAN011LDR8.D TL Those still running reiserfs on their linux server may want to format and try ext3... -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Advice http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 You cannot reply off-list:-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Reiser
On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 10:58 AM, John Summerfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I generally agree with those sentiments, but I would also consider vendor support now and in the future. I consider ReiserFS still a bit niche development. If it is not carried by the masses, some of the open source mechanisms don't scale well. It may not be tested as well on s390, for example. I believe early SuSE distributions had an endian problem in the ReiserFS utilities. I know of several installations that lost their data when fsck repaired things after an abrupt outage (could lead officials to the dead drives) I am just not very willing to try again. -Rob -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Yast install. Cannot change from Reiser to EXT3
Mark, Using the cookbook at http://linuxvm.org/Present/misc/virt-cookbook-S10.pdf page 99 And I am using yast in text mode SSH. I cannot get the EXT3 into the File format system box. When I choose create and format then Reiser shows up in the File Format System and no matter what I do, I cannot change it changed to anything else. If I try to back space, type over, Press enter, or a myriad of other keys strokes Reiser stays there and no selection menu nor unlocking of the type in box occurs. I can press on Options and then I get a File system options menu screen which has Hash function and FS revision. I did nothing here on this screen. I am at a loss on how to change format from Reiser to Ext3 in yast text mode? Since I cannot send attachments I have pasted the screen captures into a word doc located at http://www.dragonheaddistributors.com/no%20ext3.doc . Thank you Sincerely Paul -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Post Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 3:37 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Yast install. What did I specify wrong? Mount error code -3003 On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 9:14 PM, in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Sienicki, Paul K [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry that was a mistype. The dasdc should have been: * Create partition /dev/dasdc1 (2.2 GB) with unknown I was just trying to do a simple install. I thought or wanted to stay away from LVM. Because I know even less there. The 3 disks were from the sample that came with the starter. So I was following it. Dasda the small one was to be the boot and dasdb root. And whatever on the 3rd. Various iterations through this part either generated warnings on Dasd not selected or something like that. Then /boot and /root missing. And when the dasda was attempted to put the /root on it said it needed a dasda1. The ...1s were generated after (in text mode) positioned the cursor over dasda on the partition screen and pressed enter. Rather than review the many ways I found to do it wrong. Lets say I drop the smaller volumes and we just say a 1 pack install. Going through Yast DASD activate and partition screens What is the simplest steps to get it to work? But having given yast enough to properly complete? Paul, Like Scott, I'm concerned about the with unknown part. That sounds as though Partitioner wasn't told what type of file system to use. Why it would allow the install to continue without that information, if that is the case, I don't know. Have you looked at the Linux installation section of any of the Virtualization Cookbooks? They cover the process step-by-step with screen shots, so it's pretty good reference material. Essentially, you do what you did in the first part: - Activate the DASD volume(s) you'll be using - Format the DASD volume(s) (this runs the dasdfmt command in the background which can take a while for full volumes). Then, using the Partitioner: - Create 1, 2 or 3 partitions on each DASD volume you'll be using. -- Tell it what size the partition should be -- Tell it what file system to put on it (usually EXT3 these days) -- Tell it where to mount it in the file system ( /, or /boot, or /usr, etc.) -- Click OK -- Repeat for each partition needed on each volume The simplest way, though not desirable in the long term, would be to just use one volume, preferably something bigger than a 3390-3, put one partition on it, tell it to use EXT3, and mount it on /. Also, while in the partition creation panel, use the fstab options to tell YaST to use by-path and not by-id device names. Get in the habit of that so that in the future if you clone a system, it won't die because the by-id identity of the new disk doesn't match. Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Yast install. Cannot change from Reiser to EXT3
After I tabbed to the selection I pressed the down arrow key to get the list to pop up. -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Sienicki, Paul K Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 11:46 AM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Yast install. Cannot change from Reiser to EXT3 Mark, Using the cookbook at http://linuxvm.org/Present/misc/virt-cookbook-S10.pdf page 99 And I am using yast in text mode SSH. I cannot get the EXT3 into the File format system box. When I choose create and format then Reiser shows up in the File Format System and no matter what I do, I cannot change it changed to anything else. If I try to back space, type over, Press enter, or a myriad of other keys strokes Reiser stays there and no selection menu nor unlocking of the type in box occurs. I can press on Options and then I get a File system options menu screen which has Hash function and FS revision. I did nothing here on this screen. I am at a loss on how to change format from Reiser to Ext3 in yast text mode? Since I cannot send attachments I have pasted the screen captures into a word doc located at http://www.dragonheaddistributors.com/no%20ext3.doc . Thank you Sincerely Paul -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Post Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 3:37 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Yast install. What did I specify wrong? Mount error code -3003 On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 9:14 PM, in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Sienicki, Paul K [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry that was a mistype. The dasdc should have been: * Create partition /dev/dasdc1 (2.2 GB) with unknown I was just trying to do a simple install. I thought or wanted to stay away from LVM. Because I know even less there. The 3 disks were from the sample that came with the starter. So I was following it. Dasda the small one was to be the boot and dasdb root. And whatever on the 3rd. Various iterations through this part either generated warnings on Dasd not selected or something like that. Then /boot and /root missing. And when the dasda was attempted to put the /root on it said it needed a dasda1. The ...1s were generated after (in text mode) positioned the cursor over dasda on the partition screen and pressed enter. Rather than review the many ways I found to do it wrong. Lets say I drop the smaller volumes and we just say a 1 pack install. Going through Yast DASD activate and partition screens What is the simplest steps to get it to work? But having given yast enough to properly complete? Paul, Like Scott, I'm concerned about the with unknown part. That sounds as though Partitioner wasn't told what type of file system to use. Why it would allow the install to continue without that information, if that is the case, I don't know. Have you looked at the Linux installation section of any of the Virtualization Cookbooks? They cover the process step-by-step with screen shots, so it's pretty good reference material. Essentially, you do what you did in the first part: - Activate the DASD volume(s) you'll be using - Format the DASD volume(s) (this runs the dasdfmt command in the background which can take a while for full volumes). Then, using the Partitioner: - Create 1, 2 or 3 partitions on each DASD volume you'll be using. -- Tell it what size the partition should be -- Tell it what file system to put on it (usually EXT3 these days) -- Tell it where to mount it in the file system ( /, or /boot, or /usr, etc.) -- Click OK -- Repeat for each partition needed on each volume The simplest way, though not desirable in the long term, would be to just use one volume, preferably something bigger than a 3390-3, put one partition on it, tell it to use EXT3, and mount it on /. Also, while in the partition creation panel, use the fstab options to tell YaST to use by-path and not by-id device names. Get in the habit of that so that in the future if you clone a system, it won't die because the by-id identity of the new disk doesn't match. Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 __ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email from the State of California is for the sole use of the intended recipient and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review or use, including disclosure or distribution, is prohibited. If you
Re: Reiser
It may be that bug reports go unheeded for a while. The good news is it looks like 15 years and not 25 ;-) Actually, OJ Simpson is taking over maintenance. Dennis A pistol! Are you expecting trouble Sir? No Miss, were I expecting trouble I'd have a rifle. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Reiser
On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 9:54 PM, in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Erik N Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -snip- I would therefor encourage people to choose file systems based on their relative merits, rather than concerns over continued development. By and large, I agree with what you said. Open Source software can have a life long after the original developer(s) have stopped developing it. In this case, however, reality intrudes. One of the major reasons the openSUSE project made EXT3 their default file system was because they were themselves concerned about the future development of reiserfs. This was before any hint of legal trouble had arisen. The fact of the matter is, not very many people are currently hacking on reiserfs, and not very many people are interested in starting. For companies that commit themselves to support what they ship, that's a big issue. If there's not enough experienced talent to maintain it properly, you don't want it to be your default. As a result, SLE11 will also have EXT3 as the default file system. Reiserfs will continue to be shipped and supported, but you'll have to manually select it during the install to get it. When you add in the recent legal events, continuing to create _new_ systems with reiserfs is a major concern for businesses. One which is easily avoidable by switching to EXT3 now for new builds, before it becomes the default. There have been technical issues as well, and not too far in the past. When Linux for the mainframe first came out, reiserfs was not big-endian safe (and I'm not sure about 64-bit safe). Even after that was corrected, Adam Thornton had at least once instance where reiserfs ate his data on a system under heavy load. All in all, enough to make someone running a business to worry. Given the nature of what this email contains, I feel compelled to give the standard disclaimers here. Speaking only for myself, not Novell, etc. Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Reiser
On Jul 8, 2008, at 11:39 AM, Mark Post wrote: Adam Thornton had at least once instance where reiserfs ate his data on a system under heavy load. All in all, enough to make someone running a business to worry. Much worse: it ate a customer's data. Suffice it to say, I no longer use or recommend reiserfs--particularly since the Reiser maintainers' position when I complained was well, you should be using the newest version. My customer didn't really want to go with a version that, you know, WASN'T SUPPORTED IN THE DISTRIBUTION. Ext3, on the other hand, wasn't all that fast, but WAS quite stable. My feelings about the stability of the filesystem are completely orthogonal to my feelings about the stability of its inventor. Adam -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Reiser
For a while, there was a recommendation for reiser, perhaps back in SLES 8 or so. But then, I started seeing recommendations for EXT3, which now has been my FS of choice in SLES 9 and SLES 10. When I reviewed the decision making process, I concluded that EXT3 was just fine for what I want at this time. 10-50 GB file system, not a high performer requirement. I have a DS6800 Ficon attached. Way too fast for my workload at this time. The future may be different, where I trade of some reliability for better performance. (Would I really do that? G). Tom Duerbusch THD Consulting Adam Thornton [EMAIL PROTECTED] 7/8/2008 1:19 PM On Jul 8, 2008, at 11:39 AM, Mark Post wrote: Adam Thornton had at least once instance where reiserfs ate his data on a system under heavy load. All in all, enough to make someone running a business to worry. Much worse: it ate a customer's data. Suffice it to say, I no longer use or recommend reiserfs--particularly since the Reiser maintainers' position when I complained was well, you should be using the newest version. My customer didn't really want to go with a version that, you know, WASN'T SUPPORTED IN THE DISTRIBUTION. Ext3, on the other hand, wasn't all that fast, but WAS quite stable. My feelings about the stability of the filesystem are completely orthogonal to my feelings about the stability of its inventor. Adam -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Reiser
The reason to recommend reiser is performance, and in fact, ext2 gives much better performance. It just isn't journaled. As I said, you should certainly pick your filesystem based on your needs. In big business, data integrity is the name of the game, since clients hate it when you lose their data. I'm not trying to suggest that reiserfs is the right solution for anybody, or even anybody per se. I'm much more concerned with clearing up FUD. The point I'm making is that if Linus Torvalds went to prison tomorrow (hypothetically, I understand he's a fine upstanding citizen) the Linux community would be sad, but we wouldn't have to close up shop. Similarly though Mr. de Raadt's contributions to OpenBSD are invaluable, if he quit programming and became a buddhist monk high in the Himalayas where constant blizzards prevented even a satellite uplink the IT world would go on using OpenSSH. If reiserfs turns out to be important to the community, somebody will pick up the pieces and maintain it. That's the whole point of open source. We'll see what happens now that Mr. Gates has left the helm of Microsoft, eh? Sincerely, Erik Johnson On Tue, Jul 8, 2008 at 1:37 PM, Tom Duerbusch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For a while, there was a recommendation for reiser, perhaps back in SLES 8 or so. But then, I started seeing recommendations for EXT3, which now has been my FS of choice in SLES 9 and SLES 10. When I reviewed the decision making process, I concluded that EXT3 was just fine for what I want at this time. 10-50 GB file system, not a high performer requirement. I have a DS6800 Ficon attached. Way too fast for my workload at this time. The future may be different, where I trade of some reliability for better performance. (Would I really do that? G). Tom Duerbusch THD Consulting Adam Thornton [EMAIL PROTECTED] 7/8/2008 1:19 PM On Jul 8, 2008, at 11:39 AM, Mark Post wrote: Adam Thornton had at least once instance where reiserfs ate his data on a system under heavy load. All in all, enough to make someone running a business to worry. Much worse: it ate a customer's data. Suffice it to say, I no longer use or recommend reiserfs--particularly since the Reiser maintainers' position when I complained was well, you should be using the newest version. My customer didn't really want to go with a version that, you know, WASN'T SUPPORTED IN THE DISTRIBUTION. Ext3, on the other hand, wasn't all that fast, but WAS quite stable. My feelings about the stability of the filesystem are completely orthogonal to my feelings about the stability of its inventor. Adam -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Reiser
In that case, the next time I need a file system that will corrupt my data at blazing speed, I'll pick reiserfs. Jon -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Reiser
Hans Reiser leads police to body: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/07/07/BAN011LDR8.D TL Those still running reiserfs on their linux server may want to format and try ext3... Marcy Cortes This message may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the addressee or authorized to receive this for the addressee, you must not use, copy, disclose, or take any action based on this message or any information herein. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message. Thank you for your cooperation. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Reiser
Several years ago there was a dispute over the direction that the development of the XFree86 project should take. The plan was to make substantial changes to the licensing and distribution of the software. However, the bulk of the developers found that the proposed changes were neither appropriate nor useful. Thgus they forked the project and X.org was born. Since then the team has continued to make regular releases of the project and nowadays almost all the major Linux distributions use X.org as their default X11 implementation. The reason this is possible is open source. There is no reason to believe that Mr. Reiser's conviction (which was WAY back in April) spells the demise of ReiserFS. Indeed, even the cessation of development activities by Namesys is not the end of the road. The beauty of the open source development model is that anybody with an interest in file systems can download the code (still available at kernel.org) and continue his work. In the meantime the code for ReiserFS, Reiser4 and reiserfsprogs continues to be available and is no less stable than it was before Hans agreed to reveal the location of his late wife's remains. I would therefor encourage people to choose file systems based on their relative merits, rather than concerns over continued development. It may be that bug reports go unheeded for a while. But remember, although there may be nobody around to sue if things go wrong, at least you aren't depending on the continued profitability of some company to keep your filesystem available! That's the best reason in the world to go open source! Sincerely, Erik Johnson Northern Illinois University On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 8:29 PM, Marcy Cortes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hans Reiser leads police to body: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/07/07/BAN011LDR8.D TL Those still running reiserfs on their linux server may want to format and try ext3... Marcy Cortes This message may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the addressee or authorized to receive this for the addressee, you must not use, copy, disclose, or take any action based on this message or any information herein. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message. Thank you for your cooperation. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Reiser
Erik N Johnson wrote: It may be that bug reports go unheeded for a while. The good news is it looks like 15 years and not 25 ;-) mark -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: from a local linux discussion group: Hans Reiser arrested for murdering his wife.
So what do you suggest? Just forget it ever happened.. Think it's just a wast of time? John Summerfield wrote: Paul Dembry wrote: Very sad for the children. Whatever Hans did, I can't imagine it's happy for him either. In such a murder, I can see why The State would wish to punish the culprit, but I don't see how it actually makes anything better for anyone. Not the childred, not the deceased, certainly not the culprit, not The Taxpayer, and nor can I imagine it deterring anyone else sufficiently emotional. -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tourist pics http://portgeographe.environmentaldisasters.cds.merseine.nu/ Please do not reply off-list -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- David Heilman T3 Technologies, Inc. Office 440-834-1672 T3 Support 813-288-0048 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: from a local linux discussion group: Hans Reiser arrested for murdering his wife.
So what do you suggest? Can this be taken offline? It is clearly off topic. What is the local linux discussion group cited in the subject line? Thanks. Mike MacIsaac [EMAIL PROTECTED] (845) 433-7061 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: from a local linux discussion group: Hans Reiser arrested for murdering his wife.
David Heilman wrote: So what do you suggest? Just forget it ever happened.. Think it's just a wast of time? I don't see a good solution, but I don't see how the community expectation helps anyone. John Summerfield wrote: Paul Dembry wrote: Very sad for the children. Whatever Hans did, I can't imagine it's happy for him either. In such a murder, I can see why The State would wish to punish the culprit, but I don't see how it actually makes anything better for anyone. Not the childred, not the deceased, certainly not the culprit, not The Taxpayer, and nor can I imagine it deterring anyone else sufficiently emotional. -- Cheers John -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tourist pics http://portgeographe.environmentaldisasters.cds.merseine.nu/ Please do not reply off-list -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: from a local linux discussion group: Hans Reiser arrested for murdering his wife.
Michael MacIsaac wrote: So what do you suggest? Can this be taken offline? It is clearly off topic. What is the local linux discussion group cited in the subject line? Thanks. I would think there's a likely impact on many Linux users, here and elsewhere: fans of resiserfs must surely be concerned wrt its future. -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tourist pics http://portgeographe.environmentaldisasters.cds.merseine.nu/ Please do not reply off-list -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
from a local linux discussion group: Hans Reiser arrested for murdering his wife.
wow: Oakland police today arrested the estranged husband of 31-year-old Nina Nenasha Reiser on charges of murder even though in the month since she vanished, investigators have found no trace of her body. Hans Reiser, a man who has recently refused to cooperate with investigators, was arrested today along with two additional unidentified people around 11 a.m. at an acquaintance's home in the 6900 block of Simson Street, according to police. The arrest comes a day after police and FBI agents searched Reiser's Exeter Drive home for a second time, and while police today did not reveal specific evidence found Monday night, they did say that they served a search warrant for documents as well as forensic and biological evidence. Cadaver dogs were also used in the search. Police expressed confidence that the district attorney's office would arraign Reiser on charges for murder even without the discovery of Nina Reiser's body. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: from a local linux discussion group: Hans Reiser arrested for murdering his wife.
Very sad for the children. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.2/471 - Release Date: 10/10/2006 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: from a local linux discussion group: Hans Reiser arrested for murdering his wife.
Is this the guy that developed the Reisner file system for Linux? DJ David Kreuter wrote: wow: Oakland police today arrested the estranged husband of 31-year-old Nina Nenasha Reiser on charges of murder even though in the month since she vanished, investigators have found no trace of her body. Hans Reiser, a man who has recently refused to cooperate with investigators, was arrested today along with two additional unidentified people around 11 a.m. at an acquaintance's home in the 6900 block of Simson Street, according to police. The arrest comes a day after police and FBI agents searched Reiser's Exeter Drive home for a second time, and while police today did not reveal specific evidence found Monday night, they did say that they served a search warrant for documents as well as forensic and biological evidence. Cadaver dogs were also used in the search. Police expressed confidence that the district attorney's office would arraign Reiser on charges for murder even without the discovery of Nina Reiser's body. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: from a local linux discussion group: Hans Reiser arrested for murdering his wife.
Yes, it is. On 10/11/06, Dave Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is this the guy that developed the Reisner file system for Linux? DJ -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: from a local linux discussion group: Hans Reiser arrested for murdering his wife.
Is this the guy that developed the Reisner file system for Linux? Yes. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.2/471 - Release Date: 10/10/2006 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: from a local linux discussion group: Hans Reiser arrested for murdering his wife.
yup Dave Jones wrote: Is this the guy that developed the Reisner file system for Linux? DJ David Kreuter wrote: wow: Oakland police today arrested the estranged husband of 31-year-old Nina Nenasha Reiser on charges of murder even though in the month since she vanished, investigators have found no trace of her body. Hans Reiser, a man who has recently refused to cooperate with investigators, was arrested today along with two additional unidentified people around 11 a.m. at an acquaintance's home in the 6900 block of Simson Street, according to police. The arrest comes a day after police and FBI agents searched Reiser's Exeter Drive home for a second time, and while police today did not reveal specific evidence found Monday night, they did say that they served a search warrant for documents as well as forensic and biological evidence. Cadaver dogs were also used in the search. Police expressed confidence that the district attorney's office would arraign Reiser on charges for murder even without the discovery of Nina Reiser's body. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: from a local linux discussion group: Hans Reiser arrested for murdering his wife.
One in the same... He has been separated from his wife since 04, and she was awarded custody of their kids. He was pretty upset about it. They were in the middle of divorce proceedings. Paul [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/11/06 1:53 PM Is this the guy that developed the Reisner file system for Linux? DJ David Kreuter wrote: wow: Oakland police today arrested the estranged husband of 31-year-old Nina Nenasha Reiser on charges of murder even though in the month since she vanished, investigators have found no trace of her body. Hans Reiser, a man who has recently refused to cooperate with investigators, was arrested today along with two additional unidentified people around 11 a.m. at an acquaintance's home in the 6900 block of Simson Street, according to police. The arrest comes a day after police and FBI agents searched Reiser's Exeter Drive home for a second time, and while police today did not reveal specific evidence found Monday night, they did say that they served a search warrant for documents as well as forensic and biological evidence. Cadaver dogs were also used in the search. Police expressed confidence that the district attorney's office would arraign Reiser on charges for murder even without the discovery of Nina Reiser's body. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: from a local linux discussion group: Hans Reiser arrested for murdering his wife.
On Oct 11, 2006, at 10:53 AM, Dave Jones wrote: Is this the guy that developed the Reisner file system for Linux? Yup. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: from a local linux discussion group: Hans Reiser arrested for murdering his wife.
Paul Dembry wrote: Very sad for the children. Whatever Hans did, I can't imagine it's happy for him either. In such a murder, I can see why The State would wish to punish the culprit, but I don't see how it actually makes anything better for anyone. Not the childred, not the deceased, certainly not the culprit, not The Taxpayer, and nor can I imagine it deterring anyone else sufficiently emotional. -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tourist pics http://portgeographe.environmentaldisasters.cds.merseine.nu/ Please do not reply off-list -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Reiser mess
I hadn't made the connection with the missing Nina Reiser, ex-husband named Hans Reiser, who has been in the news here lately, until I read some of the comments there. She's the mother of 2 young children who went missing in Berkeley one afternoon a few weeks ago. http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=localid=4558883 Paul -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/462 - Release Date: 10/3/2006 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Utilizing Linked minidisk in a reiser LVM environment
Two things to check. Make sure /etc/fstab specifies that the file system is to be mounted readonly. Also, in your parmfile where you specify DASD device numbers, make sure that you specify 107(ro). So, for example, you would have: 100-105,107(ro),191 Mark Post -Original Message- From: Higgins, Joseph (ECSS) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 5:48 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Utilizing Linked minidisk in a reiser LVM environment We recently loaded UDB V8.1. We created an LVM using reiserfs as a single minidisk in the server and a mount point of /opt/IBM/db2/V8.1: /dev/vg6/lv1 1023964300632723332 30% /opt/IBM/db2/V8.1 We are hoping to use this as a single UDB reference in all our LINZ servers. On a second server I defined a link to the first servers 107 disk RR. ,USER LZSD003T xx 512M 2020M G 64 , INCLUDE LINXDFLT , LINK LZSS001A 0107 0107 RR , MDISK 0100 3390 31 285 VLX049 , MDISK 0101 3390 2270 1290 VLX056 , MDISK 0102 3390 4441 430 VLX057 , MDISK 0103 3390 6719 290 VLX059 , MDISK 0104 3390 9116 800 VLX05B , MDISK 0105 3390 7537 500 VLX05C , MDISK 0191 3390 3461 30 VLX047 When we start the second server he sees the LV and recognizes it but when we mount it we get the following errors: lzsd003t:~ # mount /dev/vg6/lv1 /opt/IBM/db2/V8.1 mount: block device /dev/vg6/lv1 is write-protected, mounting read-only mount: you must specify the filesystem type lzsd003t:~ # mount /dev/vg6/lv1 /opt/IBM/db2/V8.1 -t reiserfs mount: block device /dev/vg6/lv1 is write-protected, mounting read-only mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/vg6/lv1, or too many mounted file systems My mesages file says the following: Feb 5 17:32:09 lzsd003t kernel: reiserfs: checking transaction log (device 3a:04) ... Feb 5 17:32:09 lzsd003t kernel: clm-2076: device is readonly, unable to replay log Feb 5 17:32:09 lzsd003t kernel: Replay Failure, unable to mount Feb 5 17:32:09 lzsd003t kernel: reiserfs_read_super: unable to initialize journal space Feb 5 17:33:47 lzsd003t kernel: reiserfs: checking transaction log (device 3a:04) ... Feb 5 17:33:47 lzsd003t kernel: clm-2076: device is readonly, unable to replay log Feb 5 17:33:47 lzsd003t kernel: Replay Failure, unable to mount Feb 5 17:33:47 lzsd003t kernel: reiserfs_read_super: unable to initialize journal space Is this something I should be able to do or am I barking up the wrong tree. I would hate to have to install UDB on every instance. Thanks for any help.
Reiser file size limit
We are running reiserfsprogs 3.x.0k-pre8 of reiser. Is there a 2 gig file size limit? If so, what can be done to get around the limit? Regards John Gustavson Enterprise Central Software Services (ECSS) 570 Washington Street - 2nd floor New York, New York, 10080-6802 Telephone: 1-212-647-3793 Fax: 1-212-647-3321 Email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Reiser file size limit
Mkreiserfs -v2 /dev/ The -v2 will call the version that has LFS. Regards, Jon On 11/18/02 9:00 AM, Gustavson, John (ECSS) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We are running reiserfsprogs 3.x.0k-pre8 of reiser. Is there a 2 gig file size limit? If so, what can be done to get around the limit? Regards John Gustavson Enterprise Central Software Services (ECSS) 570 Washington Street - 2nd floor New York, New York, 10080-6802 Telephone: 1-212-647-3793 Fax: 1-212-647-3321 Email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Reiser file size limit
What kernel version are you running? Mark Post -Original Message- From: Gustavson, John (ECSS) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 12:01 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Reiser file size limit We are running reiserfsprogs 3.x.0k-pre8 of reiser. Is there a 2 gig file size limit? If so, what can be done to get around the limit? Regards John Gustavson Enterprise Central Software Services (ECSS) 570 Washington Street - 2nd floor New York, New York, 10080-6802 Telephone: 1-212-647-3793 Fax: 1-212-647-3321 Email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Reiser file size limit
2.4.7 Regards John Gustavson Enterprise Central Software Services (ECSS) 570 Washington Street - 2nd floor New York, New York, 10080-6802 Telephone: 1-212-647-3793 Fax: 1-212-647-3321 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Post, Mark K [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 12:13 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Reiser file size limit What kernel version are you running? Mark Post -Original Message- From: Gustavson, John (ECSS) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 12:01 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Reiser file size limit We are running reiserfsprogs 3.x.0k-pre8 of reiser. Is there a 2 gig file size limit? If so, what can be done to get around the limit? Regards John Gustavson Enterprise Central Software Services (ECSS) 570 Washington Street - 2nd floor New York, New York, 10080-6802 Telephone: 1-212-647-3793 Fax: 1-212-647-3321 Email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Reiser file size limit
That has LFS, if you call ReiserFS with -v2 However, I would recommend you grab 2.4.18 Regards, Jon On 11/18/02 9:27 AM, Gustavson, John (ECSS) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2.4.7 Regards John Gustavson Enterprise Central Software Services (ECSS) 570 Washington Street - 2nd floor New York, New York, 10080-6802 Telephone: 1-212-647-3793 Fax: 1-212-647-3321 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Post, Mark K [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 12:13 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Reiser file size limit What kernel version are you running? Mark Post -Original Message- From: Gustavson, John (ECSS) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 12:01 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Reiser file size limit We are running reiserfsprogs 3.x.0k-pre8 of reiser. Is there a 2 gig file size limit? If so, what can be done to get around the limit? Regards John Gustavson Enterprise Central Software Services (ECSS) 570 Washington Street - 2nd floor New York, New York, 10080-6802 Telephone: 1-212-647-3793 Fax: 1-212-647-3321 Email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Resolving Reiser storage and IBM 3390 devices
IBM states that a 3390-9 device as 10,017 cylinders which they convert to 8.3 GB (8514 MB per volume). When we define a volume to LINUX as a Reiser device we end up with 7.1 GB available. I can see losing some space to blocking differences but 1.2 GB seems a bit much. Does anyone have any insight. Thanks.
Re: Resolving Reiser storage and IBM 3390 devices
If memory serves, and it's been a long time since I had need of this knowledge, I'm afraid it is a blocking issue. All 3390s have a 56664 track capacity. If you multiply that by 15 tracks/cyl times 10017 cyls you get 8.514 billion bytes change (as promised). I can't remember how to figure the IRG anymore, and I really don't want to start a track capacity sideshow, but when you format the device in 4K blocks you only get 12 blocks/track. At 48k/track, you're only going to get 7.385 billion bytes of useable space. Not really the salesman's fault, if a system could write full tracks, it could use the space. It's not like very many of us really have 3390s anymore, just devices that try to emulate them and do a good job of wasting space in the process. Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Server-Uuid: 3789b954-9c4e-11d3-af68-0008c73b0911 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-WSS-ID: 11CC408D659685-01-01 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Approved-By: Higgins, Joseph (ECSS) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sender: Linux on 390 Port [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Higgins, Joseph (ECSS) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Resolving Reiser storage and IBM 3390 devices To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Precedence: list IBM states that a 3390-9 device as 10,017 cylinders which they convert to 8.3 GB (8514 MB per volume). When we define a volume to LINUX as a Reiser device we end up with 7.1 GB available. I can see losing some space to blocking differences but 1.2 GB seems a bit much. Does anyone have any insight. Thanks. Steve Arden [EMAIL PROTECTED] IBM-Global Services @ Lucent (630)979-7124
Reiser file system usage incorrectly dispalyed thru df command
We are running the 2.4.7 kernel, with a reiser LVM file system mounted at /var. After some time, the file system starts to fill up, so we might manually delete some files to increase the free space. After doing this, some times the df -h command does not display the correct usage and free space. A du command does show the change in usage. If we create a new reiser LVM, and copy everything over, the usage and free space values displayed are correct. Has anyone else had problems with df and reiser? Regards John Gustavson Enterprise Central Software Services (ECSS) 570 Washington Street - 2nd floor New York, New York, 10080-6802 Telephone: 1-212-647-3793 Fax: 1-212-647-3321 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Reiser file system usage incorrectly dispalyed thru df command
On Thu, Sep 26, 2002 at 09:22:47AM -0400, Gustavson, John (ECSS) wrote: We are running the 2.4.7 kernel, with a reiser LVM file system mounted at /var. After some time, the file system starts to fill up, so we might manually delete some files to increase the free space. After doing this, some times the df -h command does not display the correct usage and free space. A du command does show the change in usage. If we create a new reiser LVM, and copy everything over, the usage and free space values displayed are correct. Has anyone else had problems with df and reiser? This is probably unrelated to reiserfs. Perhaps the files that you deleted are still open by a running process? The space will not be recovered until the file is closed. Since the file has no directory entry, du cannot find it. -- - mdz
Re: Reiser file system usage incorrectly dispalyed thru df comman d
We have rebooted the machine, so any processes that might have had open files are gone. We only noticed this after we went to reriser, although we were not on ext2 for very long. Regards John Gustavson Enterprise Central Software Services (ECSS) 570 Washington Street - 2nd floor New York, New York, 10080-6802 Telephone: 1-212-647-3793 Fax: 1-212-647-3321 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Matt Zimmerman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 1:32 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:Re: Reiser file system usage incorrectly dispalyed thru df command On Thu, Sep 26, 2002 at 09:22:47AM -0400, Gustavson, John (ECSS) wrote: We are running the 2.4.7 kernel, with a reiser LVM file system mounted at /var. After some time, the file system starts to fill up, so we might manually delete some files to increase the free space. After doing this, some times the df -h command does not display the correct usage and free space. A du command does show the change in usage. If we create a new reiser LVM, and copy everything over, the usage and free space values displayed are correct. Has anyone else had problems with df and reiser? This is probably unrelated to reiserfs. Perhaps the files that you deleted are still open by a running process? The space will not be recovered until the file is closed. Since the file has no directory entry, du cannot find it. -- - mdz
reiser file system vs ext2 file system
Hi All, I just finished rebuilding a nfs server with SLES 7.2 and used the reiser file system. Before I had started I had copied all the dirs I wanted to save to a server running SuSE 7.1 P that was using the ext2 file system. When I checked the various dirs against each other prior to rebuilding the s390 nfs server the sizes all agreed (du -ch dir was the command). Ext2 was the file system on both the s390 and Intel version. Now after rebuilding the s390 nfs server using the reiser file system and copying the dirs back, in some cases (seems to be the really BIG dirs), the sizes on the s390 nfs server are slightly smaller now (say 911M vs 914M). The copy command I used (in both cases) was cp -Rpv from to. Could this size difference be due to using reiser instead of the ext2 file system and are the files I have on the new s390 nfs server OK? Thanks in advance for any help, Scott
Re: reiser file system vs ext2 file system
I can't say why you would wind up with _less_ space being consumed after a copy. If you had run into some sparse files, the result should have been more space being used. If you want to check things out to make sure, compare them. diff -qr original.dir/ new.dir/ Then wait, and wait, and wait until it's done. Mark Post -Original Message- From: Scott Koos [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 11:09 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: reiser file system vs ext2 file system Hi All, I just finished rebuilding a nfs server with SLES 7.2 and used the reiser file system. Before I had started I had copied all the dirs I wanted to save to a server running SuSE 7.1 P that was using the ext2 file system. When I checked the various dirs against each other prior to rebuilding the s390 nfs server the sizes all agreed (du -ch dir was the command). Ext2 was the file system on both the s390 and Intel version. Now after rebuilding the s390 nfs server using the reiser file system and copying the dirs back, in some cases (seems to be the really BIG dirs), the sizes on the s390 nfs server are slightly smaller now (say 911M vs 914M). The copy command I used (in both cases) was cp -Rpv from to. Could this size difference be due to using reiser instead of the ext2 file system and are the files I have on the new s390 nfs server OK? Thanks in advance for any help, Scott
Re: reiser file system vs ext2 file system
Hi Scott, This happens all the time because when directories are created in the copy process their size is optimal to hold the files present there. Old directories hold many deleted entries but the space isn't reclaimed until a new file has to be created there. Thus they are larger. Don't worry. Be happy. 8-) Denis On Wed, 2002-05-15 at 11:08, Scott Koos wrote: Hi All, I just finished rebuilding a nfs server with SLES 7.2 and used the reiser file system. Before I had started I had copied all the dirs I wanted to save to a server running SuSE 7.1 P that was using the ext2 file system. When I checked the various dirs against each other prior to rebuilding the s390 nfs server the sizes all agreed (du -ch dir was the command). Ext2 was the file system on both the s390 and Intel version. Now after rebuilding the s390 nfs server using the reiser file system and copying the dirs back, in some cases (seems to be the really BIG dirs), the sizes on the s390 nfs server are slightly smaller now (say 911M vs 914M). The copy command I used (in both cases) was cp -Rpv from to. Could this size difference be due to using reiser instead of the ext2 file system and are the files I have on the new s390 nfs server OK? Thanks in advance for any help, Scott -- Denis Beauchemin, analyste Université de Sherbrooke, S.T.I. T: 819.821.8000x2252 F: 819.821.8045
Re: reiser file system vs ext2 file system
Denis Beauchemin writes: This happens all the time because when directories are created in the copy process their size is optimal to hold the files present there. Old directories hold many deleted entries but the space isn't reclaimed until a new file has to be created there. Thus they are larger. There's also a difference between how ext2 and reiserfs allocate space for the underlying files/directories. ext2 uses a fairly traditional block allocation. Reiserfs is very different (balanced trees for directory lookup instead of traditional name - inode list; packs tails of files together into blocks). It's not surprising that the same files take up a different amount of raw space on the disk. There may be a contribution to the difference from the non-shrinking directory structures that ext2 uses but most of it will be from the difference in underlying filesystem layout. --Malcolm -- Malcolm Beattie [EMAIL PROTECTED] Linux Technical Consultant IBM EMEA Enterprise Server Group... ...from home, speaking only for myself
