Re: [WSG] Replacing target attribute in form
I have a little online store paying through Paypal, using their shopping cart. So the buy button opens up a new window and you're into Paypal. Hi - i've been looking at PayPal lately and thought i haven't done a cart I've seen that PayPal automatically sets the target in the form. If I was setting one up, I would just take that out (test to make sure it still worked, I would think it would) and then you'd just be opening in the same window, which feels much better. best Donna -- Donna Jones Portland, Maine 207 772 0266 http://www.westendwebs.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Keyword Generator
Does anybody know a good tool to generate keywords off a input html document? For a long time, I used this link, but its stopped working for me now: http://www.searchengineoptimising.com/keyword_generators/keywordgen.php I paid to download a program called , http://www.softexe.com But that company seems to be defunct.. Sandeep *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Keyword Generator
Sandeep Vaidya (DL/LMI) wrote: Does anybody know a good tool to generate keywords off a input html document? For what purpose? If you're intending to use the keywords in a meta element like this: meta name=keywords content=... then you're wasting your time... I paid to download a program called , http://www.softexe.com ...and your money. Search engines don't pay attention to them anyway. -- Lachlan Hunt http://lachy.id.au/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Keyword Generator
meta name=keywords content=... Search engines don't pay attention to them anyway. Not entirely true... Windows' Index Server uses meta fields and that's what our site's search engine uses. Yeah, I know you meant internet search engines ;-) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Audio and Video
Hi, I have a client who has asked for a website which will allow people to upload and download audio and video files and host streaming videos. Is there anything we need to put in place when the videos and audios are being made to make them accessible? What do I need to do to make the site as accessible as possible? Can anyone point me to any resources on this or does anyone have any expertise in this area and would like to get involved in the project? Thanks, Elaine http://www.webdandy.co.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Replacing target attribute in form
On Monday, November 13, 2006, at 08:02 am, Donna Jones wrote: Hi - i've been looking at PayPal lately and thought i haven't done a cart I've seen that PayPal automatically sets the target in the form. If I was setting one up, I would just take that out (test to make sure it still worked, I would think it would) and then you'd just be opening in the same window, which feels much better. I've tried using the same window but when using the new window a 'continue shopping' button appears which is not there when using the same window. Concerning the other posts, I would go along with the html 4.01 option because that doesn't fudge the standards issue. Having said that, using the Paypal cart is not my ideal solution so there is a case for using the transitional standard. I don't suppose there's any reason why I shouldn't keep coding to xhtml 1.0 but specify html 4.01 when I need to use the target attribute. I have seen the script that Andy posted and felt it was a hammer to crack a nut. I already have a script for opening a new window. I don't want to start a rerun of the javascript fudging standards argument but does anyone have the url of a favourite article on the subject? Thanks for everyone who's posted. Its given me food for thought. -- Chris Price *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Replacing target attribute in form
On Mon, Nov 13, 2006 at 10:57:19AM +, Chris Price wrote: I don't suppose there's any reason why I shouldn't keep coding to xhtml 1.0 but specify html 4.01 when I need to use the target attribute. You seem to be confusing HTML/XHTML with Strict/Transitional. XHTML 1.0 and HTML 4.01 are identical save for some changes made to make it use XML syntax (and some other undocumented changes). -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Replacing target attribute in form
What is the point of leaving out the 'target' attribute if you are then
going to put it in via JavaScript? If it shouldn't be there then don't
use it - sneaking it in via a script seems rather pointless to me.
Mike
-Original Message-
From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andy Woznica
Essentially it's a script to open all external links in a
new window with a
slight modification to recognise a substring in a form tag
and do likewise.
Anyway, here's the JavaScript:
// JavaScript Document
function externalLinks() {
if (!document.getElementsByTagName) return;
var anchors = document.getElementsByTagName(a);
for (var i=0; ianchors.length; i++) {
var anchor = anchors[i];
if (anchor.getAttribute(href)
anchor.getAttribute(rel) == external)
anchor.target = _blank;
}
var forms = document.getElementsByTagName(form);
for(var i = 0; i forms.length; i++)
{
var form = forms[i];
if(form.getAttribute(id).substring(0, 6) == paypal)
{
form.target = _blank;
}
}
}
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Re: [WSG] Replacing target attribute in form
Chris Price wrote: I don't want to start a rerun of the javascript fudging standards argument but does anyone have the url of a favourite article on the subject? That's my favourite one, but I'm a little bit biased :) http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/popup_window_with_no_extra_markup.asp --- Regards, Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Replacing target attribute in form
Indeed, probably so. It was just a suggestion.
A
-
Andy Woznica
Actofdesign
http://www.actofdesign.com
On 11/13/06 10:17 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What is the point of leaving out the 'target' attribute if you are then
going to put it in via JavaScript? If it shouldn't be there then don't
use it - sneaking it in via a script seems rather pointless to me.
Mike
-Original Message-
From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andy Woznica
Essentially it's a script to open all external links in a
new window with a
slight modification to recognise a substring in a form tag
and do likewise.
Anyway, here's the JavaScript:
// JavaScript Document
function externalLinks() {
if (!document.getElementsByTagName) return;
var anchors = document.getElementsByTagName(a);
for (var i=0; ianchors.length; i++) {
var anchor = anchors[i];
if (anchor.getAttribute(href)
anchor.getAttribute(rel) == external)
anchor.target = _blank;
}
var forms = document.getElementsByTagName(form);
for(var i = 0; i forms.length; i++)
{
var form = forms[i];
if(form.getAttribute(id).substring(0, 6) == paypal)
{
form.target = _blank;
}
}
}
***
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[WSG] Keyword Generator
Return Receipt Your [WSG] Keyword Generator document: wasDennis Lapcewich/R6/USDAFS received by: at:11/13/2006 09:00:43 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Your email requires verification verify#ClzcCtK3WXzb3aIZxmdB6mR5lyC4TsGV
Me is real :)On 11/13/06, Marcos Vidal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The message you sent requires that you verify that you are a real live human being and not a spam source. To complete this verification, simply reply to this message and leave the subject line intact. The headers of the message sent from your address are show below: From wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Tue Nov 07 01:17:50 2006 Received: from [63.134.198.25] (helo=mail.webboy.net.au)by krypton.websiteactive.com with esmtp (Exim 4.52)id 1Gh5IK-00063W-A9for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Tue, 07 Nov 2006 01:17:50 +1100 From: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: digest for wsg@webstandardsgroup.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2006 01:04:03 1100 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; charset=iso-8859-1; boundary=SM_c7f40542-dfc0-4b46-9893-e0cdfcf5c82e message-id: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** ***List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmUnsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfmHelp: [EMAIL PROTECTED]*** -- Mihael Zadravectel: 00386 51 808136email in msn: mihael.zadravec na gmail.comSkype kontakt: mihael_zadravec--- Toasted Webhttp://www.toastedweb.com---Miss G. / bloghttp://missg.toastedweb.com ***List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmUnsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfmHelp: [EMAIL PROTECTED]***
RE: [WSG] Your email requires verification verify
Please DON'T REPLY TO THESE! Or if you really can't resist putting your own email address into someone else's database, reply to that address only, not the list. Peter ***List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmUnsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfmHelp: [EMAIL PROTECTED]***
Re: [WSG] Replacing target attribute in form
On 11/13/06, Chris Price [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't suppose there's any reason why I shouldn't keep coding to xhtml 1.0 but specify html 4.01 when I need to use the target attribute. That might be a good idea; on the *one* page that uses the target attribute, use the HTML 4.01 doctype (with .. instead of .. /) and you'll never have to worry about maintaining any javascript hacks. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.com ... portfolio.christianmontoya.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Keyword Generator
Return Receipt Your [WSG] Keyword Generator document: wasLisa Kerrigan/StateDevPolicy/DSD received by: at:14/11/2006 09:33:11 AM ** Department of Innovation, Industry and Regional Development, Government of Victoria, Victoria, Australia. This e-mail and any attachments may contain privileged and confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not distribute reproduce this e-mail or the attachments. If you have received this message in error, please notify us by return e-mail. ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Audio and Video
Hi Elaine The W3C Web Content Accessibility Guidelines, Version 1.0 have a number of Level A checkpoints when it comes to audio and video: Checkpoint 1.1: Provide a text equivalent for every non-text element (e.g., via alt, longdesc, or in element content). This includes: ... applets and programmatic objects, ... scripts, ... sounds (played with or without user interaction), stand-alone audio files, audio tracks of video, and video. Checkpoint 1.3: Until user agents can automatically read aloud the text equivalent of a visual track, provide an auditory description of the important information of the visual track of a multimedia presentation. Checkpoint 1.4: For any time-based multimedia presentation (e.g., a movie or animation), synchronize equivalent alternatives (e.g., captions or auditory descriptions of the visual track) with the presentation. Essentially these three checkpoints mean that you need to: - provide an HTML transcript of the relevant file (Checkpoint 1.1) - provide captions for a video file (Checkpoint 1.3) - provide audio descriptions for a video file (Checkpoint 1.4) 1. Provide an HTML transcript of the file This is pretty easy for audio files: just transcribe what was said and who said it, along with any relevant background noise. With video files, you also need to transcribe any actions or events in the video that are relevant (eg. whether it is day or night, car accidents etc) 2. Provide captions for a video file Captions are used for people that are deaf and should therefore include not only what is said but also any noise that is relevant (eg. car backfiring, gunshot etc). Captions are *not* subtitles: subtitles interpret only spoken words. You can caption with MAGpie: http://ncam.wgbh.org/webaccess/magpie/magpie_help/install.html and they also have some handy captioning instructions: http://ncam.wgbh.org/webaccess/magpie/magpie_help/#captioning as does WebAIM: http://www.webaim.org/techniques/captions/magpie/version2/ The University of Wisconsin has some information on merging captions with a video file: http://streaming.wisconsin.edu/accessibility/magpie_tutorial/quicktime.html 3. Provide audio descriptions Audio descriptions are used by people that are blind and should therefore describe, in full, what is visually seen in the video. You can create audio descriptions with MAGpie and they also have instructions on how to do so: http://ncam.wgbh.org/webaccess/magpie/magpie_help/#audiodescription Joe Clark has also written some guidelines on providing audio descriptions: http://joeclark.org/access/description/ad-principles.html Skills for Access have some information on using MAGpie: http://www.skillsforaccess.org.uk/howto.php?id=135 and providing audio descriptions: http://www.skillsforaccess.org.uk/howto.php?id=104 I have some experience with HTML transcripts, captions and audio descriptions. I am more than happy to help further. Cheers, Gian Web Dandy Design wrote: Hi, I have a client who has asked for a website which will allow people to upload and download audio and video files and host streaming videos. Is there anything we need to put in place when the videos and audios are being made to make them accessible? What do I need to do to make the site as accessible as possible? Can anyone point me to any resources on this or does anyone have any expertise in this area and would like to get involved in the project? Thanks, Elaine http://www.webdandy.co.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***begin:vcard fn:Gian Sampson-Wild n:Sampson-Wild;Gian org:Information Technology Services - Clayton Campus brimg SRC=http://www.its.monash.edu.au/img/vcard/monlogo.gif; ALT=Monash University BORDER=0;Web Resources Development title:User Interface Design Team version:2.1 end:vcard
[WSG CMS] RE: digest for cms@webstandardsgroup.org
Peter, apologies if this has already been answered. I'm on the digest and don't appear to be getting all thread replies. You're not just talking about inline but also in-place editing, right? Most environmental CMSs like Zope/Plone, Silvaand Midgard use the inline approach, meaning that a logged-in user can perform front-end editing of a page by clicking the appropriate 'edit' link/icon. These still require the page or a portion of it to be submitted. Kupu is no different, it merely uses an iframe/document head approach rather than the more traditionally triedand tested HTMLform. I saw an online demonstration of an editor which worked as you describe a coupld of years ago. It used Java (so was cross-platform) and updated changes to a page without having to re-submit either the page or an embedded URL. It even featured drag and drop content shuffling. I've got to say that at the time it completely blew me away. Sadly I can't relocate thesite for the life of me. :( If anyone does could they please post it back to the list? Cheers. --Paul A NooneVebmeister, ASHM[EMAIL PROTECTED]cms@webstandardsgroup.org wrote: From: "Peter Firminger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 20:35:56 +1100 Subject: AJAX Editor anyone? Hi CMSers, Does anyone know of an inline HTML editor that can be spawned similar to a Flickr deacription field (click the content or an icon to edit) for editing various discreet sections of content within a page? I can do it with text inputs and textareas but can't seem to fine one with an HTML editor. This needs to work cross platform/browser if possible. P ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** **Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmUnsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfmHelp: [EMAIL PROTECTED]**
[WSG CMS] RE: digest for cms@webstandardsgroup.org
How about: http://www.realobjects.com/edit-on-Pro-4.435.0.html -Original Message- From: cms@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 8:41 PM To: cms@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: digest for cms@webstandardsgroup.org From: Peter Firminger [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 20:35:56 +1100 Subject: AJAX Editor anyone? Hi CMSers, Does anyone know of an inline HTML editor that can be spawned similar to a Flickr deacription field (click the content or an icon to edit) for editing various discreet sections of content within a page? I can do it with text inputs and textareas but can't seem to fine one with an HTML editor. This needs to work cross platform/browser if possible. P ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** ** Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] **
Re: [WSG] CSS resources for Graphic designers?
Title: Re: [WSG] CSS resources for Graphic designers? Ill have a look at tht. But theres no way the university would pay to get something done outside when we already have the staff here! Its maybe a matter of control. The GDs are the ones who decide the graphic layout, colours, fonts, heading levels etc. And I dont think they want to relinquish control over how a site is laid out, so I believe they want to create the styles for that. But of course they wont see the big, container level picture, or why you should use this style/div and not that one, if you know what I mean. I can do it I have been doing it for a year or more. But they want/need to know more about CSS so that they can design sites that work well using CSS rather than heavily graphic-based sites ... For example, any navigation they create always consists of graphic rollover images, using non-standard fonts. If we try and encourage them towards list-based CSS navigation, they need to see that even if they give up (in some cases) on specifying fonts, they can produce image-based backgrounds for rollovers. I think its partly about developing a different style of graphic design for the web from the old table-based designs we used to use. - susie On 14/11/06 11:50 AM, Nick Lazar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Were having a GD/programmer meeting tomorrow to try and broaden peoples knowledge, and work out a few guidelines about the rubbery line between the GD and the Programmers CSS responsibility. Does anyone have any experience here, or can point to any resources that might assist? A really useful resource, particularly for small companies that may have limited staff numbers, is http://psd2html.com. These guys do a very good job of converting a PSD file to standards compliant CSS/XHTML. I've used them a couple of times, and have been very pleased with the result. Susie, I mention this in response to your query, as it may be worth your while getting a couple of jobs done by these people, and then going through the resulting code, as it will certainly show you what you need to be producing from your PSD files. Hope that helps, Regards, Nick. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** ***List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmUnsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfmHelp: [EMAIL PROTECTED]***
Re: [WSG] CSS resources for Graphic designers?
I don't know if you'll find any of these useful: http://www.digital-web.com/articles/designing_for_the_web/ http://www.markboulton.co.uk/index.php/journal/C107/ On Tue, 14 Nov 2006 12:15:44 +1000, Susie Gardner-Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I¹ll have a look at tht. But there¹s no way the university would pay to get something done outside when we already have the staff here! It¹s maybe a matter of Œcontrol¹. The GDs are the ones who decide the graphic layout, colours, fonts, heading levels etc. And I don¹t think they want to relinquish control over how a site is laid out, so I believe they want to create the styles for that. But of course they won¹t see the big, container level picture, or why you should use this style/div and not that one, if you know what I mean. I can do it I have been doing it for a year or more. But they want/need to know more about CSS so that they can design sites that work well using CSS rather than heavily graphic-based sites ... For example, any navigation they create always consists of graphic rollover images, using non-standard fonts. If we try and encourage them towards list-based CSS navigation, they need to see that even if they give up (in some cases) on specifying fonts, they can produce image-based backgrounds for rollovers. I think it¹s partly about developing a different style of graphic design for the web from the old table-based designs we used to use. - susie On 14/11/06 11:50 AM, Nick Lazar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip A really useful resource, particularly for small companies that may have limited staff numbers, is http://psd2html.com. These guys do a very good job of converting a PSD file to standards compliant CSS/XHTML. I've used them a couple of times, and have been very pleased with the result. Susie, I mention this in response to your query, as it may be worth your while getting a couple of jobs done by these people, and then going through the resulting code, as it will certainly show you what you need to be producing from your PSD files. Hope that helps, Regards, Nick. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Tyssen Design Web print design services www.tyssendesign.com.au Ph: (07) 3300 3303 Mb: 0405 678 590 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] CSS resources for Graphic designers?
On 11/13/06, Susie Gardner-Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We're having a GD/programmer meeting tomorrow to try and broaden people's knowledge, and work out a few guidelines about the 'rubbery line' between the GD and the Programmer's CSS responsibility. Does anyone have any experience here, or can point to any resources that might assist? If I am taking a design from a graphic designer, I would just want them to give me the layers and I can go about slicing them manually as necessary to build the design with CSS. There's no need to use awkward layout wizards provided by software like Photoshop or ImageReady; those programs are for making graphics, not webpages. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.com ... portfolio.christianmontoya.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] CSS resources for Graphic designers?
Title: Re: [WSG] CSS resources for Graphic designers? I agree with Christian.Do wireframes, then make them pretty,and then cutup the PSD files yourself so that it works on-screen, rather than being dictated to by a pixel-perfect design. That said though, StyleMaster (http://www.westciv.com/style_master/)is a good css editor, but I've never found an 'easy way' for designers to make a photoshop image and then spit out good standards compliant (x)HTML/CSS, particularly good liquid layouts rather than pixel perfect designs. If I'm to be honest, I would say thatmany graphic designersneed to take a step back and design screen prototypes (only) based on wireframes that are developed through a proper information architecture methodologythat are then realised in (X)HTML /CSS by those with good CSS skills. N'est pas? M From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org on behalf of Christian MontoyaSent: Tue 14/11/2006 1:40 PMTo: wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: Re: [WSG] CSS resources for Graphic designers? On 11/13/06, Susie Gardner-Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We're having a GD/programmer meeting tomorrow to try and broaden people's knowledge, and work out a few guidelines about the 'rubbery line' between the GD and the Programmer's CSS responsibility. Does anyone have any experience here, or can point to any resources that might assist?If I am taking a design from a graphic designer, I would just wantthem to give me the layers and I can go about slicing them manually asnecessary to build the design with CSS. There's no need to use awkward"layout wizards" provided by software like Photoshop or ImageReady;those programs are for making graphics, not webpages.Christian Montoyachristianmontoya.com ... portfolio.christianmontoya.com***List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmUnsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfmHelp: [EMAIL PROTECTED]*** ***List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmUnsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfmHelp: [EMAIL PROTECTED]***
RE: [WSG] CSS resources for Graphic designers?
Title: CSS resources for Graphic designers? Hi Susie, If I was in QLD I would help out. Im a web designer and having a good knowledge between the programmer and designer From my experience they come from almost different planets. You should write a book, Programmers are from Pluto, Designers from the Mercury. Im always keen to learn more about CSS The Zen Garden was my introduction, but some guidelines would be excellent, especially for designers. If you take notes on your meeting I would be keen to submit a response.. Regards Michael ***List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmUnsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfmHelp: [EMAIL PROTECTED]*** ***List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmUnsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfmHelp: [EMAIL PROTECTED]***
Re: [WSG] CSS resources for Graphic designers?
Hi Susie: I think I'm in a similar position to you with a website that will be re-designed soon by the print designer. She's great and really knows her stuff and understands the web somewhat (probably more than most traditional designers) and I've been thinking of trying to collect a few urls that might help broaden her (and them) out of the fixed layout bit into new, standards compliant design. I've just collected one at this point, perhaps you're familiar with it, I know a lot of people on this list would be. http://www.westciv.com/style_master/house/index.html I plan on pointing out how the background is fixed, the menu bit in the top right (helps keep the regular menu from being so big and I'm always having to fight dropdowns, too, so helps in that). and I'll point out how it shrinks or expands to fit the browser. If this is the sort of thing you're looking for good, maybe you'll get some more urls (i could use them, too). Either I didn't understand or just about everyone else was not on point. ;) cheers Donna Susie Gardner-Brown wrote: Hi there Where I work (Qld Uni) we work in a team to develop websites, which usually consist of an instructional designer, a graphic designer, and a web developer and/or programmer. The graphic designers do the graphic design/layout, and the web developers/programmers do the programming, including CSS. Up till recently our graphic designers have been used to designing for a table layout producing a Photoshop file that we then cut up. They have varying degrees of CSS knowledge, but mostly very little, so they¹re not really aware of what Œgraphic effects¹ can be created using CSS. Lately they¹ve been creating an ImageReady layout file and associated stylesheet, which I find completely unusable!! I always have to start again from scratch. We¹re having a GD/programmer meeting tomorrow to try and broaden people¹s knowledge, and work out a few guidelines about the Œrubbery line¹ between the GD and the Programmer¹s CSS responsibility. Does anyone have any experience here, or can point to any resources that might assist? Cheers susie *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Donna Jones Portland, Maine 207 772 0266 http://www.westendwebs.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] CSS resources for Graphic designers?
If I was in QLD I would help out. I am in QLD so may be able to help you out further if you need it but I think it's hard to deal with generalities. It seems you're saying the code the GDs turn out is not up to standard. But whose standard? Is it yours or does the university have a clear set of guidelines with regards the coding of its sites? If the university has guidelines then I'd think they should be your first point of reference. It's a bit hard to give advice as to where to iron out the bumps when we don't really know who's responsible for doing what. It seems to me like it would be easier to provide evidence to back up the standards-way of doing things for specific examples. For instance, with the point you made about images in navigation menus, we could point to tutorials on accessible image replacement etc. -- Tyssen Design Web print design services www.tyssendesign.com.au Ph: (07) 3300 3303 Mb: 0405 678 590 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] CSS resources for Graphic designers?
Title: Re: [WSG] CSS resources for Graphic designers? I guess I'm not explaining myself properly. I don't expect Graphic Designers to produce code. I expect to do that myself (as a web developer) In the past (in table-based layout days), the graphic designer on the team would either provide me with a Photoshop layout file that I would cut up, or would sometimes cut it up themselves. I would then build the site using tables, to make it look exactly like the Photoshop layout file. Since Ive started building sites using CSS as opposed to tables, Ive taken the photoshop layered file, cut it up as necessary, built a stylesheet and placed the graphics (banners, navigation etc) using divs etc. But, (speaking generally) the graphic designers: - are still designing navigation using non-standard fonts etc. - dont necessarily know what can be done with CSS on a design level etc. - When they export a stylesheet to create styles, they use styles that you have to apply to each paragraph. I guess it's something created automatically by something like Imageready. I'm mostly wanting to explain/show what can be done using CSS instead of actual images, so their design takes advantage of what CSS has to offer, and doesn't have to use graphic images to create the effect they want to achieve. Dunno if that's any clearer ... grin - susie ***List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmUnsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfmHelp: [EMAIL PROTECTED]***
RE: [WSG] CSS resources for Graphic designers?
Russ and David once did a 2-day CSS course in Canberra. It was great, particularly in showing a standards compliant way of how css works and what it can do. Your designers could benefit from such a course. IMHO, it would open their eyes to how things are done in 21st century online world. IMHO, it would also let them know that just as you need a good designer to make things look pretty, you need a good web developer to adapt and turn that design into html/css (not to make it look exactly like the design did). M From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org on behalf of Susie Gardner-Brown Sent: Tue 14/11/2006 3:42 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] CSS resources for Graphic designers? I guess I'm not explaining myself properly. I don't expect Graphic Designers to produce code. I expect to do that myself (as a web developer) In the past (in table-based layout days), the graphic designer on the team would either provide me with a Photoshop layout file that I would cut up, or would sometimes cut it up themselves. I would then build the site using tables, to make it look exactly like the Photoshop layout file. Since I've started building sites using CSS as opposed to tables, I've taken the photoshop layered file, cut it up as necessary, built a stylesheet and placed the graphics (banners, navigation etc) using divs etc. But, (speaking generally) the graphic designers: - are still designing navigation using non-standard fonts etc. - don't necessarily know what can be done with CSS on a design level etc. - When they export a stylesheet to create styles, they use styles that you have to apply to each paragraph. I guess it's something created automatically by something like Imageready. I'm mostly wanting to explain/show what can be done using CSS instead of actual images, so their design takes advantage of what CSS has to offer, and doesn't have to use graphic images to create the effect they want to achieve. Dunno if that's any clearer ... grin - susie *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** winmail.dat
RE: [WSG] CSS resources for Graphic designers?
Just makes sure they understand that - The page could be infinitely long (so they dont box a set amount of text in using a framework around it, common mistake of print designers) - That they cant overlap images all over the place and stagger content, it has to align. If they follow those two rules then its very rare they will design something that cant be built. If they do then its your job as the web developer / coder / cut up artist to take it back to them and explain why, then they wont do it again. If something is going to be quite hard to build, or have to be built in a stupid way then mention it to them as well and explain why it is not a good idea to do it that way. After a bit of backwards and forwards theyll soon figure out how to produce great designs. If theyre coming from a print background then the hardest thing for them to understand will be the infinite page length (and possibly width, they may design something that relies on the browser being a certain width, so a bit of education might be needed in that department as well) Samuel -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kay Smoljak Sent: Tuesday, 14 November 2006 4:02 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] CSS resources for Graphic designers? Hi Susie, On 11/14/06, Susie Gardner-Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In the past (in table-based layout days), the graphic designer on the team would either provide me with a Photoshop layout file that I would cut up, or would sometimes cut it up themselves. I would then build the site using tables, to make it look exactly like the Photoshop layout file. I know exactly where you're coming from - I also have worked a lot with comp-only web designers. However, I tend to take a different approach. To me, the designer shouldn't be thinking about what can be done in terms of code etc at all - they should look at a computer screen and imagine the possibilities. As coders, it's our job to turn their picture into reality. When we were doing table layouts last century, there were often things that I used to tell the designers not to do - things that were difficult or just plain not possible. But with CSS layouts and good standards-compliant browsers (don't scoff, even IE6 is far easier to deal with than Netscape 4 ever was) I've never come across something a designer has suggested that couldn't be done - just look at the Zen Garden. These days I tell them to just go for it (I also like a challenge). However, giving designers a better understanding of screen-design issues - colour and contrast, size, dimensions and readability, flexible widths, accessibility etc - is of course a great idea. For that I would encourage them to visit the CSS Zen Garden and some of the CSS gallery/awards sites and get ideas of what works and what doesn't from what other people are doing. Sometimes one tiny idea from a way-out designed for designers blog layout can add a touch of class to a business site. Good luck with it! K. -- Kay Smoljak business: www.cleverstarfish.com standards: kay.zombiecoder.com coldfusion: kay.smoljak.com personal: goatlady.wordpress.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** ***List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmUnsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfmHelp: [EMAIL PROTECTED]***
Re: [WSG] CSS resources for Graphic designers?
For that I would encourage them to visit the CSS Zen Garden I'd be wary of recommending the Zen Garden for the fact that a lot of the designs don't represent best practice CSS coding. Yes they're great examples of how you can break boundaries, but you'll also find examples where a lot of the mark-up has simply been set to display: none in favour of a huge graphic that contains all the text. -- Tyssen Design Web print design services www.tyssendesign.com.au Ph: (07) 3300 3303 Mb: 0405 678 590 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] CSS resources for Graphic designers?
If you look at the Zen garden from a complete design point of view, without any background in coding HTML or CSS, then it will just look like anything is possible on the web. -Original Message- From: listdad@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Faulds Sent: Tuesday, 14 November 2006 4:32 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] CSS resources for Graphic designers? For that I would encourage them to visit the CSS Zen Garden I'd be wary of recommending the Zen Garden for the fact that a lot of the designs don't represent best practice CSS coding. Yes they're great examples of how you can break boundaries, but you'll also find examples where a lot of the mark-up has simply been set to display: none in favour of a huge graphic that contains all the text. -- Tyssen Design Web print design services www.tyssendesign.com.au Ph: (07) 3300 3303 Mb: 0405 678 590 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] CSS resources for Graphic designers?
Thanks everyone - good discussion, suggestions and links! - susie *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Keyword Generator
Sandeep,Two days ago i had to generate some keywords with a php script. I hope this helps...?phpfunction off_simple_words($txt){ $off = array('a','de','para','con','por','en','el','la','lo','los','las','desde','un','uno','una','unos','unas','sin','o','e','pues','son','ya','se','muy','y','como','que','del','es');/* get rid of words u don't want*/
$off = '/\b('.implode('|',$off).')\b/'; $txt = preg_replace($off,'',strtolower($txt)); return $txt;}function off_line_breaks($txt){ return preg_replace(((\t\r\n)+), '', $txt);
}function off_non_text($txt){ $off = array(',',':',';','',','','\b.','(',')'); return str_replace($off,'',$txt);}function clean_string($txt){ $txt = strip_tags($txt);
$txt = html_entity_decode($txt); $txt = off_non_text($txt); $txt = off_simple_words($txt); $txt = off_line_breaks($txt); $txt = preg_replace('/\s+/',' ',$txt); return trim($txt);
}function get_file_content($file){ $lines = file($file); foreach($lines as $line){ $file_content .= $line; } return $file_content;}function generate_file_metadata($file){
$txt = get_file_content($file); $txt = clean_string($txt); $txt = explode(' ', $txt); $txt = array_unique($txt); return implode(' ', $txt);}$file = 'home.html';//your fileecho generate_file_metadata($file);
?what this script does is to get a string of unique keywords from an html file.Regards,On 11/13/06, Sandeep Vaidya (DL/LMI)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Does anybody know a good tool to generate keywords off a input html
document?For a long time, I used this link, but its stopped working for me now:http://www.searchengineoptimising.com/keyword_generators/keywordgen.php
I paid to download a program called , http://www.softexe.comBut that company seems to be defunct..Sandeep***
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-- Ernesto
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RE: [WSG] CSS resources for Graphic designers?
Susie, Graphic designers making a successful transition to the web need to let go of a lot of the fine control they exercise routinely in print design. Suddenly the page becomes a rubbery thing, resizable by the user and morphable by changing content. A single static image is to a web page as a single frame is to a movie. Too often a graphic designer will create a snapshot and think their job is done, leaving the petty details of implementation to the coder who has to figure out how the page will stretch without breaking and with its look feel intact -- an enormous job that entails a huge amount of graphic design skills. If you can get your designers to provide a half a dozen snapshots of each page exploring variations in font size and content size your own job will be easier and you'll be much less likely to strangle one another down the road. I'm leaning toward the opinion that Photoshop is not a good tool in web design, at least not the way it's used by most. Fonts are anti-aliased, text is static, dimensions are measured in pixels, not ems, and things are often arranged on the page arbitrarily, eyeballed to look right to the designer, without regard to consistency of margins gutters. The result is something that looks like a finished product and sets expectations for HTML CSS to mimic, while in reality it's only an approximation like a good pencil sketch. My ideal graphic designer would be fluent in HTML, using Photoshop to prepare the component images but not to mock up the entire page. Good luck with your meeting, and let us know how it goes. Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] CSS resources for Graphic designers?
It is all dependant on how willing your graphic designer is to let go of certain features of their design. (ie font choice on menu items).It works a lot easier if you have website guidelines and/or corporate style guide. (I had four - State Government website guidelines, State Government style guide [print orientated], agency specific website guidelines and separate agency style guide. A couple of years back did a major agency wide redesign, had the choice between two inhouse print graphic designers, one who had built websites a few years early, ie creating table based layouts by cutting up psds and one with no experience in web. Went with the designer with no web experience, because it was easier to teach from scratch than make them relearn everything. They knew the style guides (which fixed most font choices, including menus), in addition they knew from the start, font size had to be relative and page width elastic. Spent a day at CSS Zen Garden showing what can be done (and to get some inspiration), the designer went away and produced a couple of illustrator files that got converted into HTML and CSS very easily. Nick Cowiehttp://nickcowie.com ***List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmUnsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfmHelp: [EMAIL PROTECTED]***
