X breaking in Debian

[Paul Makepeace]

This is the first time in six years I've been seriously irritated with a
Debian package. This bug applies to you if you're running X and recently
did an woody/testing up{date,grade} which will've included
xfree86-common

http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2001/debian-devel-200110/msg00396.html

Notes in http://people.debian.org/~branden/

ARGH!

Paul, spent far, far too long learning far, far too much about X today

Re: SPOILERS : Re: Interesting Numbers

[Greg McCarroll]

* Dave Hodgkinson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> Greg McCarroll <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> *wibble*
> 
> Grep, get a life!
> 

Dave,

trust me that isn't that sad, what would be sad is if i had already
started writing a quiz for next friday and dreamt some of the
questions, and was say for example write now at 7:20am on a saturday
morning reading email and writing some of the questions i dreamt into
a file in another window

Greg


-- 
Greg McCarroll http://217.34.97.146/~gem/

Re: Writing a Perl Game

[Greg McCarroll]

* Jonathan Stowe ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> 
> Well you could use Linux::Svgalib now - it needs some testers ;-}
> 

Does it run under X-Windows in a window?

Greg

-- 
Greg McCarroll http://217.34.97.146/~gem/

Warning: Extreme Babbling (was Re: The Visual Display of Quantitative Information)

[David H. Adler]

On Fri, Oct 19, 2001 at 10:21:40PM +0100, Jonathan Stowe wrote:
> 
> Who is the greater artist ?  Scott Bradley or Bach ? Bach was presented
> the grand commission and set about his work as a professional and produced
> some music that people of the court at the time liked (perhaps) and that
> has continued to be popular among the bourgeois for a couple of centuries.
> Scott Bradley was under commission to MGM - he got to work, viewed the
> rushes of the Tom and Jerry films and scored music that was fitting to
> what he saw, this music was apparently satisfying to those who commisioned
> the work (Fred Quimby, William Hanna and Joseph Barbera) and has remained
> satisying to those who have seen the films in the years hence - Children
> and Adults, Working Class and Bourgeois alike.
> 
> I think it was Eisenstein who said that the best feature of film music was
> that it *should not be memorable* yet he had Prokofiev compose the music
> for Ivan the Terrible (OK most people hate Prokofiev for the 'Peter and
> the Wolf' atrocity of their childhood :) So probably Scott Bradley has
> failed in this respect :)
> 
> ( DHA, HELP ME )

You may regret this... :-)

First a note:  Fred Quimby, although he was in charge of the MGM
animation dept. and therefore got his name on all the cartoons in BIG
LETTERS, was notoriously uncreative from what I hear.

The issue of aspects of cinema not being memorable is particularly of
not to me, since I'm trained as an editor - the profession in cinema
where it is probably most true that the best work is unnoticed, pretty
much by definition.  Unlike music, which is a part of reality as well as
cinema need not, IMO, be quite as hidden as editing which, of course,
does not occur in nature.

Orson Welles once claimed that if he had it to do over again, he would
not have done the famous unbroken crane shot that opens Touch of Evil.
This would, of course, be a shame, as it's one of the most impressive
shots in the history of cinema.  Nevertheless, he was right, since his
reason was the fact that the shot brought attention to itself as
technique, rather than drawing you into the film.  It could be argued
that it does not actually keep you from being drawn into the film, but
as a general rule, this is not something a good filmmaker should do.
The fact that Welles gets away with it is a testament to his genius.

Music in film treads a funny line.  It shouldn't completely get by you,
but it shouldn't stand out as separate from the film.  An example
(although it only really stands out by comparison):  The Good The Bad
and The Ugly.  IMO, this is a wonderful soundtrack, as far as being
great music.  It does not, however, fit the film perfectly.  Part of
this comes from the fact that the film is (again IMO) slightly too long.
Still, great movie, great soundtrack.  I, however, have always thought
Leone's Once Upon A Time in the West to be the superior film.  Although
it's quite long (longer, I believe the tGtB&tU), it is not longer than
it should be.  Also, I find that the matching of soundtrack to film is
just about perfect.

Coming back to the question at the top of this mail, the issue of the
"greater artist" seems kind of forced.  Do we take the film composer to
be a musical artist, or a cinematic artist.  I think the composer
himself must be judged by the music.  Film is a teriffically
collaborative effort, and it is rare that any single person can take the
credit for the final product.  The greatest demonstration of this is
probably Citizen Kane.  Considered one of the greatest films ever made,
Welles often gets all the credit.  As much as I worship the man,
however, that's probably the one film on which we *must* acknowledge
that it's not all him.  Kane was the product of one of the most amazing
assemblages of talent in the history of Hollywood.  Welles, Wise,
Tolland, etc.  Welles still deserves a *lot* of credit for putting it
all together, but he had never made a film before (if anyone here brings
up Hearts of Age, I bet you haven't actually seen it... :-), and he
learned a lot during the making of Kane.

This brings me to a complete sidetrack.  Given the "great computer
books" thread recently, I'd like to spout off a list of great film
books.  To start:

The Making of Citizen Kane by Robert Carringer.  Amazing piece of work.
The reasearch he did is mind-boggling, and a lot of the things you
thought were done with deep focus actually weren't.

Howard Hawks, Storyteller by Gerald Mast.
Akira Kurosawa by Donald Richie.  Two of the best books written on a
single director.  Although Hitchcock will probably always be the first
name to come up in discussion of the Auteur theory, Hawks is possibly
even a better example, due to the fact that he made films in a much
wider range than Hitchcock, yet still retained a very clear vision.

In the Blink of an Eye by Walter Murch.  Wonderful meditation on
editing.  Hm.  I see there's a revised edition out.  I'll have to get
that.

This is Orson Well

Re: Obnoxious spam: News from NuSphere -- #10

[anathema]

Mike Jarvis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>a> Well, Ye-es, but I tend to prefer having the headers right there in nanae
>a> myself, regardless of the fact that that's not what it's there for.
>So a compromise.  Headers and description to nanae, full text of spam
>to sightings.  Everybody's happy, and no "proper quoting style" flame
>war.

Heheh.  But those are such *fun to have.
--
http://www.the-anathema.org
   Bread is thicker than water.  

Re: happy birthday #london.pm!

[David H. Adler]

On Fri, Oct 19, 2001 at 12:11:59PM +0100, Richard Clamp wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 19, 2001 at 11:57:53AM +0100, Simon Wistow wrote:
> >  Channel #london.pm was created at Thu Oct 19 14:48:32 2000
> > 
> > Which by my reckoning means that #london.pm's first birthday is today in a few 
>hours :)
> 
> Nope, it ain't, we did this before though.
> 
> *rummage*
> 
> -- 
> Richard Clamp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 16:05:46 +0100
> From: Richard Clamp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Paul Mison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: #london.pm birthday? you've missed it - twice
> User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
> 
> [jay:~/irc/logs/2000] richardc% head token.rhizomatic.net,#london.pm.xchatlog
>  BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Sep 29 11:55:34 2000
> 
> --> richardc ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) has joined #London.pm
> --- Topic for #London.pm is We're going to barbados !
> --- Topic for #London.pm set by gellyfish at Fri Sep 29 09:35:10 2000

Hang on.  #london.pm and I have the same birthday?  weird...

dha

-- 
David H. Adler - <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - http://www.panix.com/~dha/
"Shrink your opponents' heads before they shrink yours!" - The
Bomboras

Re: Obnoxious spam: News from NuSphere -- #10

[Mike Jarvis]

Friday, October 19, 2001, 9:28:41 PM, anathema wrote:

a> Mike Jarvis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>I love nanae too.  That's why I'd suggest posting it in sightings
>>instead.  Maybe an article *about it* in nanae, but the spam itself,
>>with headers, to sightings.

a> Well, Ye-es, but I tend to prefer having the headers right there in nanae
a> myself, regardless of the fact that that's not what it's there for.

So a compromise.  Headers and description to nanae, full text of spam
to sightings.  Everybody's happy, and no "proper quoting style" flame
war.

-- 
mike

Re: Obnoxious spam: News from NuSphere -- #10

[anathema]

Mike Jarvis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I love nanae too.  That's why I'd suggest posting it in sightings
>instead.  Maybe an article *about it* in nanae, but the spam itself,
>with headers, to sightings.

Well, Ye-es, but I tend to prefer having the headers right there in nanae
myself, regardless of the fact that that's not what it's there for.
--
http://www.the-anathema.org
I said to him, he must have been about fourteen, then. I said "Son,
you can't carry on forever just hanging onto your mother's apron.
She's going to want it back one day."
- Stephen Fry

Re: Obnoxious spam: News from NuSphere -- #10

[Mike Jarvis]

Friday, October 19, 2001, 8:30:50 PM, anathema wrote:

a> Paul Makepeace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>*plonk*

a> Nooo, you don't *plonk*, you LART.

a> Go on.  They'll thank you for it in the long run.

a> (that, or post it to n.a.n-a.e and we'll do the larting for you,  i love
a> nanae.)

I love nanae too.  That's why I'd suggest posting it in sightings
instead.  Maybe an article *about it* in nanae, but the spam itself,
with headers, to sightings.


-- 
mike

Re: The Visual Display of Quantitative Information

[Alex Gough]

On Fri, 19 Oct 2001, Kate L Pugh wrote:

> Here's the post of Tony Finch's to oxbridge.tat (yes, I have his
> permission to repost it) that persuaded me to buy this book. Below
> it is my reply, which is less well-written, but has excerpts.
> 

I went and got this from one of our libraries today.  It's fantastic.
He has good points to make with plenty of illustrative examples.  Add
to that the considered bitchyness he applies to all that is wrong
(rivalled only by a select few astrophysics papers I've read) and it
becomes a pleasure to read.

I'm tired now, but I'm glad I finished it.  Everyone else should as well.

Alex Gough
-- 
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but
it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. 

Re: Obnoxious spam: News from NuSphere -- #10

[anathema]

Paul Makepeace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>*plonk*

Nooo, you don't *plonk*, you LART.

Go on.  They'll thank you for it in the long run.

(that, or post it to n.a.n-a.e and we'll do the larting for you,  i love
nanae.)
--
http://www.the-anathema.org
"Buffy the Vampire Slapper" - I'm sorry, I Haven't A Clue - Failed
Film Titles

Obnoxious spam: News from NuSphere -- #10

[Paul Makepeace]

Anyone else receiving this can "thank" O'Reilly for providing them with
your address. Not cool.

*plonk*

Paul

- Forwarded message from [EMAIL PROTECTED] -

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 20:14:16 -0400
To: oreillynet.com(at)paulm.com
Subject: News from NuSphere -- #10 


   If you would like to receive a text-only version of this newsletter in
   the  future,  please  reply to this message with "text-only please" in
   the subject line.

  . . . . .The NuSphere Corporation
  NUSPHERE® ADVANTAGE  |  BUY ONLINE  |  DOWNLOAD

[snip]

  The NuSphere Corporation

[ Never mind that, here comes the bollocks: I never, ever sign up to
  receive promotional material: ]

   Thank  you  for your interest in News from NuSphere. You are receiving
   this  monthly  newsletter  because  you  visited  www.nusphere.com and
   either  downloaded  or  purchased  software,  or registered to receive
   periodic  updates.  If  you would like to be removed from this mailing
   list, click here.

- End forwarded message -

Re: [Job] Possibly of interest

[Nicholas Clark]

On Fri, Oct 19, 2001 at 08:09:53AM +0100, Dave Hodgkinson wrote:
> For more details and to apply for this job, please click the link below
> http://www.newmonday.co.uk/servlet/JobLookupServlet?profile_id=3043577&job_id=3587035

"Job lookup functionality requires JavaScript, JavaScript is disabled
or missing from your browser".

Too bloody right it is. I don't trust anyone.

[Interesting, an agent has also found what seems to be the same job for
me:

They are a risk management company based in the city. They are looking
for 1-2 years of excellent perl exp, HTML/JavaScript, team player, good
communication skills (client contact will be important), basic graphical
skills (client uses Paint Shop Pro), ability to cope with high-intensity
production environment, a good balance between
speed/accuracy/readability in coding.

smells rather too much like web design, and not enough programming
challenge]

Nicholas Clark

Re: [Job] Possibly of interest

[Paul Johnson]

On Fri, Oct 19, 2001 at 10:34:53PM +0100, David Cantrell wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 19, 2001 at 08:09:53AM +0100, Dave Hodgkinson wrote:
> > Job Title: PERL DEVELOPER - LONDON/CITY #30K/45K
> > Location: LONDON - CITY
> > Type: Permanent
> > Salary/Benefits: 45000
> > Skills: INTERNET DEVELOPMENT My client a the world's leading provider
> > of risk management products to banks, Hedge Funds, Asset
> > managers, Insurance companies and Brokerage houses need
> > experienced PERL Develope ... 
> > Job Ref: NM-CF-JEML292175
> 
> Sounds like this might be Risk Metrics.  I interviewed there a few months
> ago.  Didn't get the job cos they thought I'd get bored and fack orff
> elsewhere.  But they did strike me as being pretty decent people to
> work for.

I used to work for a company that did this sort of stuff.  It was a lot
of fun, although I was involved in all sorts of work from wrapping C++
libraries to checking data integrity, data munging and interweb stuff.
Looks like this is mostly web work.

>Jeff Pinyan (japhy) works for them.

In NY though, I think.

-- 
Paul Johnson - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.pjcj.net

Re: [Job] Possibly of interest

[David H. Adler]

On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 09:47:58PM +, Chris Ball wrote:
> On Fri, 2001-10-19 at 21:42, Jonathan Stowe wrote:
> > On Fri, 19 Oct 2001, David Cantrell wrote:
> > >Jeff Pinyan (japhy) works for them.
> 
> > Sounds like a good not reason for not working there then ;-}
> 
> Oh, bah.  Japhy's great; he helped me out a lot going over code and
> fixing the stupid way I'd decided to OO in a CPAN release.  

More to the point, he's not there anymore.  Went back to school, IIRC.

dha
-- 
David H. Adler - <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - http://www.panix.com/~dha/
"Do not look at the cursor!  Look where the cursor points!"
- Chip Salzenberg

Re: [Job] Possibly of interest

[Chris Ball]

On Fri, 2001-10-19 at 21:42, Jonathan Stowe wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Oct 2001, David Cantrell wrote:
> >Jeff Pinyan (japhy) works for them.

> Sounds like a good not reason for not working there then ;-}

Oh, bah.  Japhy's great; he helped me out a lot going over code and
fixing the stupid way I'd decided to OO in a CPAN release.  

japhy++  # generous with time.  :)

~C.

-- 
$a="printf.net"; Chris Ball | chris@void.$a | www.$a | finger: chris@$a
 "In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded."  

Re: [Job] Possibly of interest

[Jonathan Stowe]

On Fri, 19 Oct 2001, David Cantrell wrote:
>Jeff Pinyan (japhy) works for them.

(Hopes he's not subscribed here).

Sounds like a good not reason for not working there then ;-}

/J\

Borrocks (was Re: Netiquette was Re: [Perl Jobs] CGI / MySQL developer(onsite), UK, London])

[Jonathan Stowe]

On Thu, 18 Oct 2001, Andrew Wilson wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 06:33:12PM +, Redvers Davies wrote:
> > network configuration =)  I believe the phrase was "If they want to
> > mail it to me they'll fix it".  On the contrary, it has made sure
> > I leave it exactly the same way as it is now =)
>
> You can hardly say on the contrary here, you have decided not to "fix
> it" being aware that this means that mail from you will not reach him.
> He said "If they want to mail it to me", you have obviously decided
> not to mail him directly, this is not contrary position ;-)
>

I think the phrase in common usage in the RFCs and elsewhere is "Be
liberal in what you accept and conservative in what you transmit".

So thats about it. Now shut the fuck up already.


/J\

Re: [Job] Possibly of interest

[David Cantrell]

On Fri, Oct 19, 2001 at 08:09:53AM +0100, Dave Hodgkinson wrote:
> Job Title: PERL DEVELOPER - LONDON/CITY #30K/45K
> Location: LONDON - CITY
> Type: Permanent
> Salary/Benefits: 45000
> Skills: INTERNET DEVELOPMENT My client a the world's leading provider
> of risk management products to banks, Hedge Funds, Asset
> managers, Insurance companies and Brokerage houses need
> experienced PERL Develope ... 
> Job Ref: NM-CF-JEML292175

Sounds like this might be Risk Metrics.  I interviewed there a few months
ago.  Didn't get the job cos they thought I'd get bored and fack orff
elsewhere.  But they did strike me as being pretty decent people to
work for.  Jeff Pinyan (japhy) works for them.

-- 
David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david

Us Germans take our humour very seriously
  -- German cultural attache talking to the Today Programme,
 about the German supposed lack of a sense of humour, 29 Aug 2001

Re: Breaking News: YAPC::Europe

[Nik Butler]

Well for my part im definetly up for the Paris venue if it ever happens...

Hmmm Paris, Perl and Unix... man and they say romance aint never dead !

Regards

Nik Butler
Director Wired4Life Limited
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
07713 241 956
www.wired4life.org


--
Testing a footer here 

Re: Netiquette was Re: [Perl Jobs] CGI / MySQL developer (onsite), UK, London]

[Andrew Wilson]

On Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 06:33:12PM +, Redvers Davies wrote:
> network configuration =)  I believe the phrase was "If they want to
> mail it to me they'll fix it".  On the contrary, it has made sure
> I leave it exactly the same way as it is now =)

You can hardly say on the contrary here, you have decided not to "fix
it" being aware that this means that mail from you will not reach him.
He said "If they want to mail it to me", you have obviously decided
not to mail him directly, this is not contrary position ;-)

cheers

Andrew

Re: The Visual Display of Quantitative Information

[Jonathan Stowe]

On Fri, 19 Oct 2001, Kate L Pugh wrote:
> Tony Finch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Bad software is like those humorous posters depicting "a day at the
> > beach", covered with hundreds of people doing ridiculous things.
> > Little bits of it may be amusing, but they combine to make a whole
> > that is messy and ugly. Good software is like Monet's Water Lilies,
> > where the basic theme of the brush strokes builds up to an attractive
> > whole. It's the miscellaneous collection of buildings of Oxford's
> > Bodleian compared to the coherent whole of the Cambridge University
> > Library. It's the soundtrack for a Tom & Jerry cartoon compared to a
> > Bach fuge.
> >

I am deliberately eliding the rest of the message.

Software system design is often not an aesthetically pleasing thing -
most of us are not involved directly with the creation of things like
sendmail or bind or the FreeBSD kernel or whatever.  What we do is not
art, it is the practical implementation of of often horribly messy business
logic and the requirements of 'uneducated lusers'.

Who is the greater artist ?  Scott Bradley or Bach ? Bach was presented
the grand commission and set about his work as a professional and produced
some music that people of the court at the time liked (perhaps) and that
has continued to be popular among the bourgeois for a couple of centuries.
Scott Bradley was under commission to MGM - he got to work, viewed the
rushes of the Tom and Jerry films and scored music that was fitting to
what he saw, this music was apparently satisfying to those who commisioned
the work (Fred Quimby, William Hanna and Joseph Barbera) and has remained
satisying to those who have seen the films in the years hence - Children
and Adults, Working Class and Bourgeois alike.

I think it was Eisenstein who said that the best feature of film music was
that it *should not be memorable* yet he had Prokofiev compose the music
for Ivan the Terrible (OK most people hate Prokofiev for the 'Peter and
the Wolf' atrocity of their childhood :) So probably Scott Bradley has
failed in this respect :)

( DHA, HELP ME )

I am not sure of the relative merits of the libraries of our foremost
universities but I would be interested as to which provided the most
function as opposed to some bizzare aesthetic estimation ...

Just some thoughts

/J\

Re: Message-ID header (was Re: Netiquette)

[Paul Makepeace]

On Fri, Oct 19, 2001 at 04:53:35PM +0200, Newton, Philip wrote:
> Since then, I insert a
> 'fake' message ID using my mailer's "add an extra header" feature when I

Oh great, so all your messages have the same Message-ID: (assuming that
any mailer that is too broken to add them is probably too lo-IQ to
provide a way to programmatically generate them)?

Paul, harbouring secret desires to have a mail repository using M-IDs..

Re: SPOILERS : Re: Interesting Numbers

[Dave Hodgkinson]

Greg McCarroll <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

*wibble*

Grep, get a life!



-- 
David Hodgkinson, Wizard for Hirehttp://www.davehodgkinson.com
Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star   http://www.deep-purple.com
All the Purple Family Tree news   http://www.slashrock.com
   Interim Technical Director, Web Architecture Consultant for hire

[Job] Possibly of interest

[Dave Hodgkinson]

Job Title: PERL DEVELOPER - LONDON/CITY #30K/45K
Location: LONDON - CITY
Type: Permanent
Salary/Benefits: 45000
Skills: INTERNET DEVELOPMENT My client a the world's leading provider
of risk management products to banks, Hedge Funds, Asset
managers, Insurance companies and Brokerage houses need
experienced PERL Develope ... 
Job Ref: NM-CF-JEML292175

For more details and to apply for this job, please click the link below
http://www.newmonday.co.uk/servlet/JobLookupServlet?profile_id=3043577&job_id=3587035

Re: Interesting Numbers

[David H. Adler]

On Fri, Oct 19, 2001 at 04:30:51PM +0200, Newton, Philip wrote:
> Greg McCarroll wrote:
> 
> >212
> > Clue: Mark Fowler should know this one
> 
> It's a NYC area code.


It was, for many years, *the* nyc area code.


dha
-- 
David H. Adler - <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - http://www.panix.com/~dha/
I expect my version of ESP::Psychic will be ready sometime last week.
More likely, yesterday (you know how schedules tend to slip).
- Eric The Read in comp.lang.perl.misc

FIRE! (was Re: happy birthday #london.pm!)

[Jonathan Stowe]

On Fri, 19 Oct 2001, Richard Clamp wrote:
>
>   Bonfire
> Night
>

It is Hastings Bonfire tomorrow night if anyone is interested - big
marching round with flaming torches and banging drums and setting fire
to some effigies on the beach type scene followed by the letting off of
some fireworks.  The Bonfire has been held on the first saturday after
Hastings Day (october 14th - the alleged date of that 1066 business ) for
a few years now since its revival after it fell into decline in the 50's ...

/J\

Re: london.pm.org NS & MX go go go!

[Jonathan Stowe]

On Thu, 18 Oct 2001, Paul Makepeace wrote:
> I've just had word back from the fine folks at dns(at)pm.org (aka Ben
> Hockenhull) that london.pm.org is now in control of its own domain
>

Paul, you're a Lady *and* a gentleman I'm sure we'll all buy you a drink
when you can bring yourself to come back to blighty 

/J\

Re: Writing a Perl Game

[Jonathan Stowe]

On Thu, 18 Oct 2001, Greg McCarroll wrote:
>
>   OpenGL
>

Well you could use Linux::Svgalib now - it needs some testers ;-}

/J\

RE: RE: Writing a Perl Game

[Jonathan Stowe]

On Fri, 19 Oct 2001, Dave Cross wrote:
>
> the first game I hacked with a hex
> editor
>

I seem to recall that the first game that I hacked was Poseidon Adventure
for the Dragon 32 -  I discovered that the last room was decidedly iffy and
added another bit where you got out of the removable plate in the hull
and had to find something to float on or get eaten by sharks (or something
like that)  - [ should that have had a spoiler warning ;)].

I was absolutely delighted when I discovered that the debug.exe that came
with DOS 3 allowed you to alter the program binaries and I set out and
changed the messages in command.com on the PCs of all my colleagues ;-}


/J\

Re: Classic Computer Books (Non-Perl)

[pdcawley]

Tony Bowden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 05:49:57AM -0700, Dave Cross wrote:
>> And a couple that will probably be seen as classics in the future:
>> 
>> Extreme Programming Explained - Kent Beck
>> Refactoring - Martin Fowler
> 
> I'd possibly change XPe to "Planning Extreme Progamming" - Beck and
> Fowler.

Yeah, Planning's a good one. I've just done a largish order at Amazon
and, like a good cult member, I'll be getting a couple of the other XP
books. The 'war story' one looks like it might be fun.

> I'd also add Fowler's "Analysis Patterns" (the lesser known cousin of the
> Gang of Four book), 

This one's on the list too. Fowler's a damned fine writer, if it's
half as good as Refactoring I'll be happy. I'm also expecting Beck's
'Smalltalk Best Practice Patterns' (it's the cult I think, but the
Smalltalk literature that I've read so far has had that 'whack on the
side of the head' quality I like in a technical book.) 

As for non programming books that are definitely worth the read may I
recommend: 

The Pleasures of Counting by TW Korner
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0521568234

It's a maths book, and the maths is not exactly easy, but the
exposition is fantastic and there's some fascinating stuff about
operational research in the first and second world wars (including
some quite shocking stuff about how much stuff was simply forgotten
second time around), the invention of statistics (Whatsisname, the
Cholera Outbreak in Victorian London without failing to point out that
actually the conclusion wasn't supported by the evidence.) Korner
eschews 'Lies to children', and the book is fantastic because of it.

Six Not So Easy Pieces, Dick Feynman
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/014027667X

Utterly brilliant. Feynman's another who has little truck with lies to
children, and the stuff in here can be heavy going mathematically, but
it's a tour de force. In the space of six lectures, each building on
the last, Feynman walks us through the importance of symmetry and
conservation laws and then uses that to give a fantasticly lucid and
'inevitable' exposition of Special and General Relativity. The best
book on a hard subject I've ever read and *beautifully* written. He'd
hate me for saying it, but Feynman was a poet.

I made the mistake of lending this to someone and the bugger never
gave it back, might have to buy another copy. Or maybe I'll bite the
bullet and buy the remaining two volumes of: 

The Feynman Lectures on Physics, volumes 1-3
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0201021153

I only have volume one of this. When I really want to exercise my
brain I work through a lecture. Ooohh... and Amazon tells me they're
releasing the tapes.

The Feynman Lectures on Computation are pretty damned fine too. His
characteristic style of starting from very simple beginnings (he uses
the analogy of a computer as a filing clerk who will do what you tell
him, but is incapable of thought) and careful, clear, logical
exposition works its magic here too. His stuff on Turing machines is
(as per bloody usual with Feynman) is some of the clearest writing on
the subject I've read; good stuff.

Hmm... I didn't *mean* this to turn into a Feynman love in, I was just
following a train of thought. So, here's a few more non computer but
utterly wonderful technical books

Examples: The Making of 40 Photographs, Ansel Adams
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/082121750X

You'll know the photographs, but what's great about this book is Adams
clear headed exposition of how he made the photographs, from his
thoughts while he stood in front of the landscape with a 10x8 camera
and two or three plates that he'd just lugged some ludicrous distance
up a mountain (you really don't want to screw up after that much
effort) through to the work that was done to make the final print. If
you're even slightly interested in the process of black and white
photographic print making you should read this (and The Negative, The
Camera and The Print). Even if you're not, Adams' craftsman-like,
disciplined approach to a subject where the creative and the technical
are so deeply intertwined might well ring bells with you. 

Winning Ways for Your Mathematical Plays, Berlekamp, Conway & Guy
Hmm... it's been split up in a new, weird way or so it seems.

A comprehensive analysis and toolset for thinking about and analysing
games of no chance. Hard maths, terrible puns. A proof by example that
a Rubik's cube can be solved in at most 'n' manipulations (can't
remember how many 'n' is, but it's not many). An exposition on Life by
the game's creator, including the proof that the game is Turing
Complete. Some mind bending stuff on P/NP completeness. And other
weirdness. Again, not an easy read -- you need to understand the
notation to get anything out of it, and some of the notation is rather
hard to get your head 'round -- but a rewarding one.

Almost anything by Martin Gardner.

Card College Volumes 1-4, Roberto

Re: [nat.pryce@b13media.com: [ruby-talk:22730] ANN: XP-Day, London, 15/12/2001]

[Greg McCarroll]

* Nicholas Clark ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> I wonder how well received YAPC::Europe 19100 would have been if it had been
> 11 times more expensive.

Well at least people would of had muffins. ;-)

(this might be an in joke, so if you want it explained ask me at the
 next social meet)

Greg

-- 
Greg McCarroll http://217.34.97.146/~gem/

Re: Interesting Numbers

[Greg McCarroll]

* Chris Devers ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> >1 , 9 , 36 , 84 , 126
> >3 , 7 , 31 , 127
> 
> I can't find these ones! I can't cheat! :)
> 

I did these ones myself ;-)

> Not in the book! 

Yes it is. Read the clue again carefully and think about it.

Greg

-- 
Greg McCarroll http://217.34.97.146/~gem/

Re: Classic Computer Books (Non-Perl)

[Tony Bowden]

On Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 05:49:57AM -0700, Dave Cross wrote:
> And a couple that will probably be seen as classics in the future:
> 
> Extreme Programming Explained - Kent Beck
> Refactoring - Martin Fowler

I'd possibly change XPe to "Planning Extreme Progamming" - Beck and Fowler.

I'd also add Fowler's "Analysis Patterns" (the lesser known cousin of the
Gang of Four book), Tom DeMarco's "Peopleware" (and probably now also "Slack"),
and, interestingly, Berton Roueche's "The Medical Detectives", which has
nothing to do with programming, but is probably one of the best books around
on debugging ;)

Tony
-- 
--
 Tony Bowden | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.tmtm.com/
 we barely have time to react in this world let alone rehearse
--

amazon wishlists

[Simon Wistow]

So, my amazon wishlist has got huge and I wanted to total it all up ...

... so I wrote a script. In Perl! Yay! (well it uses Lynx because LWP::*
doesn't seem to work, maybe if I changed the Browser identifier, hmm)

It works for .co.uk and .com :

[simon@dabox simon]$ amazon --help
% amazon  [-uk] [-id ID] [-force] [-save] [-help]
-uk: get values from amazon.co.uk (default is .com)
-id: your amazon wish list id (it's the last bit of the URL after
/wishlist/'
-force : don't look up values from the resource file
-save  : save these values to the resource files
-help  : print this message

the first time you run the script you must supply the values
but after that it will save them in .amazon_wishlist in your
home directory.

You can overide the resource file by using -force option or the
-save option (which will save the new values into the resource
file).

So ...

% amazon -uk -id yakyakyak
£100.00
% amazon
£100.00
% amazon -id barbarbar -force
$111.00
% amazon
£100.00
% amazon -id barbarbar -save
$111.00
% amazon
$111.00

[simon@dabox simon]$ amazon
$1131.17
[simon@dabox simon]$

Eek!

So, if anybody else wants to do it then you you can grab it from

http://www.twoshortplanks.com/simon/stuff/amazon

It's ugly. Don't bitch, it's free.

 



-- 
: off the wagon and hitching a ride

RE: happy birthday #london.pm!

[Matthew Jones]

> so who fancies hosting the london.pm halloween fancy dress party?

There's an all-comers fancy-dress halloween party oop here. Those who can be
arsed are welcome to attend, although I don't see how you could fail to have
a better time in That London.

I'm going as Monkey.

-- 
Matthew Jones 

Re: Interesting Numbers

[Chris Devers]

On Fri, 19 Oct 2001, Greg McCarroll wrote:

> I remembered one of my favourite books, "The Penguin Dictionary of
> Curious and Interesting Numbers".

Good book :)

> So hear we go (some are easy, some are pretty much impossible)..
> 
>4840 

Clue: page 158. Is it Robin Szmetia, esq?

>1 , 9 , 36 , 84 , 126
>3 , 7 , 31 , 127

I can't find these ones! I can't cheat! :)

>212

Page 130. No, the Manhattan area code is not the answer :)

>714

Page 146, and I don't get the hint about Jack...

>231

Not in the book! 
 
> And finally a quick riddle, where you have to work out the age of
> Diophantus,
> 
>   "Here lies Diophantus," the wonder behold . . .
>   Through art algebraic, the stone tells how old:
> "God gave him his boyhood one-sixth of his life,
> One twelfth more as youth while whiskers grew rife;
> And then yet one-seventh ere marriage begun;
> In five years there came a bouncing new son.
> Alas, the dear child of master and sage
> After attaining half the measure of his fathers life
> chill fate took him.
> After consoling his fate by this science of numbers for
> four years,
> he ended his life." 

Page 114. 
 
> Well I hope it gives someone some fun,
 
Yes. :) 



-- 
Chris Devers

"People with machines that think, will in times of crisis, 
make up stuff and attribute it to me" - "Nikla-nostra-debo"

Re: happy birthday #london.pm!

[Newton, Philip]

Mark Fowler wrote:
> (Can this go for Enterprise and anything else like that toothanks)

Jolene Blalock gets rubbed down with "detox" gel in the first episode of E.

Oops.

(Never seen it[1]; the above info was gleaned from Slashdot, several days
ago.)

Cheers,
Philip

[1] though I'd like to...
-- 
Philip Newton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
All opinions are my own, not my employer's.
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

Re: SPOILERS : Re: Interesting Numbers

[Newton, Philip]

Greg McCarroll wrote:
> * Peter Haworth ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > On Fri, 19 Oct 2001 09:48:51 +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:
> > >4840 
> > >   Clue: Robin Szmeti I think will have the best chance. 
> > 
> > For some reason, this sounds like a tape drive to me
> > 
> > >3 , 7 , 31 , 127
> > > Clue: They are in sequence
> > 
> > 2**p - 1, where p is prime
> > 
> 
> I didn't spot that, the actual answer I was looking for was they were
> the first 4 Mersenne Primes, Mersenne Primes are all of the form of
> 2^x-1 and of course are primes. But I think your answer deserves a
> bonus point! ;-) Cool!

2^p-1, actually. (Though I don't know whether any numbers of the form 2^x-1
are prime if x is not prime.)

The next numbers in the sequence are ..., 127, 8191, 131071, 524287, ... if
you mean the Mersenne primes, and ..., 127, 2047, 8191, 131071, 524287,
8388607, ... if you mean the Mersenne numbers (i.e. 2^p-1 regardless of
whether the result is prime or not).

Cheers,
Philip
-- 
Philip Newton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
All opinions are my own, not my employer's.
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

Re: Message-ID header (was Re: Netiquette)

[Newton, Philip]

Nicholas Clark wrote:
>
> On Fri, Oct 19, 2001 at 08:15:09AM +0200, Newton, Philip wrote:
> 
> > Then I got a complaint about a message of mine not having a 
> > Message-ID header, and I found that my client apparently does
> > not generate such a
> 
> This may not directly have been what you were mentioning (or it
> may have been exactly the case you were mentioning),

It wasn't; I was thinking of the abuse.net where you can send a message to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and it gets forwarded to the 'correct'
abuse address (which might be postmaster@ or abuse@, or abuse@upstream, or
whatever). I got a bot reply saying it didn't accept messages without a
message ID.

(I also got a reply from Jarkko once saying he had some problem with a
message of mine and he guessed the lack of message ID may have had something
to do with it, but I don't remember the details. Since then, I insert a
'fake' message ID using my mailer's "add an extra header" feature when I
send to p5p and think of it, or use my news client [which inserts message
IDs] as a MUA.)

> Message I sent to Ask, which I didn't act any further on:
> 
> |The following changes to a message being processed MAY be applied
> |when necessary by an originating SMTP server, or one used as the
> |target of SMTP as an initial posting protocol:
> | 
> |-  Addition of a message-id field when none appears
[snip]
> | 
> | (that's 2821)

Thanks; that's interesting. And I would say that the MTA that I speak to is
not performing a relay function.

However, when I talked to my ISP about it, he said something like "usually
only qmail_inject [or whatever the local injector is called] inserts the
message ID, not the SMTP daemon", so perhaps that's configured as a relay
rather than as a first-stage MTA.

Cheers,
Philip
-- 
Philip Newton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
All opinions are my own, not my employer's.
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

Re: happy birthday #london.pm!

[Mark Fowler]

Greg said:

> Although I agree with Giles in 6x04 ;-)

Can I ask that, as a personal favor to me, for the few of us who don't
live in America, and who don't go in for all this blatantly law breaking
warez crap, that we quit it with the continual mention of buffy (and
angel) episodes that haven't been broadcast yet.

I know what Greg said was not really a spoiler, but the gradual creep will
start and slowly...very slowly...we're going to all get spoilered.

Thanks.

Mark.

(Can this go for Enterprise and anything else like that toothanks)

-- 
s''  Mark Fowler London.pm   Bath.pm
 http://www.twoshortplanks.com/  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
';use Term'Cap;$t=Tgetent Term'Cap{};print$t->Tputs(cl);for$w(split/  +/
){for(0..30){$|=print$t->Tgoto(cm,$_,$y)." $w";select$k,$k,$k,.03}$y+=2}

Re: Interesting Numbers

[Newton, Philip]

Greg McCarroll wrote:
>1 , 9 , 36 , 84 , 126
> Clue: Don't use C to work this out

Ah! Got the joke. (Well, after peeking in the EIS.) Actually, C *does* have
something to do with those numbers.

>212
>   Clue: Mark Fowler should know this one

It's a NYC area code.

Cheers,
Philip
-- 
Philip Newton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
All opinions are my own, not my employer's.
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

Re: Interesting Numbers

[Newton, Philip]

Peter Haworth wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Oct 2001 09:48:51 +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:
> >3 , 7 , 31 , 127
> > Clue: They are in sequence
> 
> 2**p - 1, where p is prime

aka "Mersenne numbers". (A subset of those numbers is the "Mersenne
primes".)

Apparently, they're important in factoring numbers and cryptography etc.
because of their special form. Or something.

Cheers,
Philip
-- 
Philip Newton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
All opinions are my own, not my employer's.
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

Re: [nat.pryce@b13media.com: [ruby-talk:22730] ANN: XP-Day, London, 15/12/2001]

[Nicholas Clark]

On Fri, Oct 19, 2001 at 03:20:36PM +0100, Leon Brocard wrote:
> "The cost for the day will be approx 150squid although we have some
> concessions for BCS OOPS members and students."
> 
> Wow, they sure know how to organise a cheap one day conference these
> XP cultists

I wonder how well received YAPC::Europe 19100 would have been if it had been
11 times more expensive.

Nicholas Clark

Re: Message-ID header (was Re: Netiquette)

[Nicholas Clark]

On Fri, Oct 19, 2001 at 08:15:09AM +0200, Newton, Philip wrote:
> Matthew Byng-Maddick wrote:
> > Most people can be bothered to make sure that their zones
> > are RFC compliant. Most people who can't are spammers. (Note
> > that I said most).
> 
> That reminds me of a question I had.
> 
> Can someone tell me who should be responsible for generating a Message-ID
> header in email? Specifically,

answers based on re-reading the message below

> * should the MUA generate the header when it sends the message to an SMTP
> server?

not sure. (I believe that the it's preferable that someone out of the MUA and
the first MTA to do it, but I'm not sure which is best)

>   * if it does, should/may the server overwrite that header with
> its own message ID?

believe no

>   * if it doesn't, should the server generate a Message-ID header
> of its own?

I read it as it "may" if it's not a relay

> * must an RFC-2?822-compliant message contain a Message-ID header?

don't know

> Then I got a complaint about a message of mine not having a Message-ID
> header, and I found that my client apparently does not generate such a

This may not directly have been what you were mentioning (or it may
have been exactly the case you were mentioning), but I actually asked Ask
about why I'd ended up with a message you'd sent to 2 perl mailing lists
ending up in my inbox twice with two different message IDs assigned to it
by the local MTA. Strangely enough, my de-duping filter uses message IDs,
and it thought these were 2 messages :-)

> previously most-often-used SMTP server did). When I talked to the chap
> running the service, he seemed to think it's the client's responsibility; I
> can think it would be a good idea if the server added necessary headers that
> are missing (I've seen that done with 'Date:', for example, when I telnet
> directly to port 25 and only supply From: To: Subject:).
> 
> What would you say?

Message I sent to Ask, which I didn't act any further on:

| On Sun, Aug 12, 2001 at 03:20:13PM -0700, Ask Bjoern Hansen wrote:
| > On Sun, 12 Aug 2001, Nicholas Clark wrote:
| >
| > I think that you are right; I don't think qmail adds the Message-Id
| > if it's not there.
| >
| > Where does the RFC say that you must do that?
| 
| Bluurg. I'm wrong. It doesn't say "must", it says "may":
| 
|The following changes to a message being processed MAY be applied
|when necessary by an originating SMTP server, or one used as the
|target of SMTP as an initial posting protocol:
| 
|-  Addition of a message-id field when none appears
| 
|-  Addition of a date, time or time zone when none appears
| 
|-  Correction of addresses to proper FQDN format
| 
|The less information the server has about the client, the less likely
|these changes are to be correct and the more caution and conservatism
|should be applied when considering whether or not to perform fixes
|and how.  These changes MUST NOT be applied by an SMTP server that
|provides an intermediate relay function.
| 
| (that's 2821)
| And I'm not sure if a mailing list is "an intermediate relay function".
| 
| It seems that I should be asking Philip Newton (and Tels) to rejig their
| mail clients to generate Message-Id headers, rather than wonder why the list 
| isn't adding them. 
| 
 
Nicholas Clark 

Re: happy birthday #london.pm!

[Nick Cleaton]

On Fri, Oct 19, 2001 at 02:51:43PM +0100, Richard Clamp wrote:
> 
> I don't hold much joy for Christmas though, but Halloween and Bonfire
> Night rock my world.

That reminds me, I must book my tickets for the NPL [1] fireworks.

They have Real Ale and suspect sausages.  And some fireworks,
apparently, but who can see that far after a few pints of Old
Thumper ?

Nick

[1] National Physical Laboratory, Teddington

--
($O=   #\  /#{O$}xb|
q|HHHNIiHIHIHNNI{HHHiiHiiI|^#\/#(|}OM:-#+(iI$:-+!:- >i (!>:=#!i +-|b
q|-+ !i#=:

Re: [nat.pryce@b13media.com: [ruby-talk:22730] ANN: XP-Day, London, 15/12/2001]

[Leon Brocard]

Leon Brocard sent the following bits through the ether:

> Join the XP cult!

"The cost for the day will be approx 150squid although we have some
concessions for BCS OOPS members and students."

Wow, they sure know how to organise a cheap one day conference these
XP cultists

Leon
-- 
Leon Brocard.http://www.astray.com/
Nanoware...http://www.nanoware.org/

... I came, I saw, I did a little shopping

Re: happy birthday #london.pm!

[Greg McCarroll]

* Wilson, Andrew (Belfast) ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> My point is that they're all made up by somebody somewhere.  Halloween
> was probably invented by the geeks of the day. 

See BtVS, who's the geek? Willow, who's the Wicca? Willow. What more
evidence does Andrew need. Although I agree with Giles in 6x04 ;-)

-- 
Greg McCarroll http://217.34.97.146/~gem/

Re: happy birthday #london.pm!

[Greg McCarroll]

* Richard Clamp ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 19, 2001 at 01:34:36PM +0100, Wilson, Andrew (Belfast) wrote:
> > > Nope, I'm just deeply cynical about made-up geek events like this and
> > > 1e9.  It'll do until Halloween though, I suppose.
> > 
> > As opposed to a made up event like Halloween or Christmas?
> 

I would argue about Christmas, but Its all got to confrontational here
recently, I stead I'll just ring up all of Andrew's friends and family
and tell them he doesn't want Christmas Pressies this year ;-)

> Yes, which is why I phrased it made-up _geek_ events, and then gave
> 1e9 as a further example.
> 
> I don't hold much joy for Christmas though, but Halloween and Bonfire
> Night rock my world.
> 

bah, i've not been invited to any halloween parties this year so far
:-(

so who fancies hosting the london.pm halloween fancy dress party?

Greg

-- 
Greg McCarroll http://217.34.97.146/~gem/

Re: Interesting Numbers

[Greg McCarroll]

To summarise the answers we have so far .

* Greg McCarroll ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> 
>4840 
>   Clue: Robin Szmeti I think will have the best chance. 
>1 , 9 , 36 , 84 , 126
> Clue: Don't use C to work this out
>3 , 7 , 31 , 127
> Clue: They are in sequence


SOLVED : Peter Haworth, although he noticed something I didn't.

>212
>   Clue: Mark Fowler should know this one
>714
>   Clue: Jack built something, but he wasn't the only one
>231
>   Clue: You'll need the revised edition of the book to work this
>   one out. (WARNING: I don't think anyone will get this one)
> 
> And finally a quick riddle, where you have to work out the age of
> Diophantus,

SOLVED : Dave Cross

So that leaves 5 reasonable ones, the last is nigh on impossible,
without either a quick fire guessing session or owning the book and
knowing how my mind words.

I reckon Dave Cross, Paul Mison, Richard Clamp, to name a few should
be able to answer `714' from the clue alone. People who IRC when
Trelane is on in the morning should get a clue to `212', Older people
should spot 4840, and as for the first sequence anyone who likes
puzzles should figure it out.

Greg

p.s. if you are the sort of johnny come lately, giving up, PHP
programming type of person, the answers are at .

http://217.34.97.146/~gem/perl/answers.txt

-- 
Greg McCarroll http://217.34.97.146/~gem/

SPOILERS: Re: Interesting Numbers

[Greg McCarroll]

Dave's 84 is the correct answer for this riddle.

* Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> 
> From: David Cantrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 10/19/01 12:31:29 PM
> 
> >On Fri, Oct 19, 2001 at 09:48:51AM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:
> >> And finally a quick riddle, where you have to work out 
> >> the age of Diophantus,
> >>   "Here lies Diophantus," the wonder behold . . .
> >>   Through art algebraic, the stone tells how old:
> >>   "God gave him his boyhood one-sixth of his life,
> >>   One twelfth more as youth while whiskers grew rife;
> >>   And then yet one-seventh ere marriage begun;
> >>   In five years there came a bouncing new son.
> >>   Alas, the dear child of master and sage
> >>   After attaining half the measure of his fathers life
> >>   chill fate took him.
> >>   After consoling his fate by this science of numbers for
> >>   four years, he ended his life." 
> >
> > This is trivial, but can give two answers depending on 
> > how you interpret "half the measure of his fathers 
> > life".  Is it half the measure of his father's *entire* 
> > life, or half the measure of his father's life up until
> > that point?
> 
> Yeah. Spotted that, but went with the most obvious one
> (the first one).
> 
> > Assuming the former ...
> 
> As did I.
> 
> >   x/6 + x/12 + x/7 + 5 + x/2 + 4 = x
> 
> Well, we started with the same equation
> 
> > => 84x + 42x + 72x + 2520 + 252x + 1008 = 504x # multiply
> by 504
> 
> I multiplied by 84. Giving
> 
> 14x + 7x + 12x + 420 + 42x + 336 = 84x
> 
> > => 2520 + 1008 = 3528 = 54x
> 
> 756 = 9x
> 
> >=> x = 65 yrs 4 months, give or take a day or two
> 
> x = 84
> 
> I believe your error was in the calculation of 4 x 504 :)
> 
> hth,
> 
> Dave...
> -- 
> 
> 
> "Let me see you make decisions, without your television"
>- Depeche Mode (Stripped)
> 
> 
> 
> 
-- 
Greg McCarroll http://217.34.97.146/~gem/

SPOILERS : Re: Interesting Numbers

[Greg McCarroll]

* Peter Haworth ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Oct 2001 09:48:51 +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:
> >4840   
> > Clue: Robin Szmeti I think will have the best chance. 
> 
> For some reason, this sounds like a tape drive to me
> 
> >3 , 7 , 31 , 127
> > Clue: They are in sequence
> 
> 2**p - 1, where p is prime
> 

I didn't spot that, the actual answer I was looking for was they were
the first 4 Mersenne Primes, Mersenne Primes are all of the form of
2^x-1 and of course are primes. But I think your answer deserves a
bonus point! ;-) Cool!



-- 
Greg McCarroll http://217.34.97.146/~gem/

RE: happy birthday #london.pm!

[Wilson, Andrew (Belfast)]

Hi

> > As opposed to a made up event like Halloween or Christmas?
> 
> Yes, which is why I phrased it made-up _geek_ events, and then gave
> 1e9 as a further example.
> 
> I don't hold much joy for Christmas though, but Halloween and Bonfire
> Night rock my world.

My point is that they're all made up by somebody somewhere.  Halloween
was probably invented by the geeks of the day.  What is this
Bonfire night of which you speak, I assume you don't mean 11 July which
is when we get all the tubes lighting bonfires.  11 July sucks.

If you're looking for the pagan event pinched and renamed as christmas
then you'll be wanting Yuletide.

cheers

Andrew

Re: happy birthday #london.pm!

[Richard Clamp]

On Fri, Oct 19, 2001 at 01:34:36PM +0100, Wilson, Andrew (Belfast) wrote:
> > Nope, I'm just deeply cynical about made-up geek events like this and
> > 1e9.  It'll do until Halloween though, I suppose.
> 
> As opposed to a made up event like Halloween or Christmas?

Yes, which is why I phrased it made-up _geek_ events, and then gave
1e9 as a further example.

I don't hold much joy for Christmas though, but Halloween and Bonfire
Night rock my world.

-- 
Richard Clamp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: Interesting Numbers

[David Cantrell]

On Fri, Oct 19, 2001 at 05:55:22AM -0700, Dave Cross wrote:
> I believe your error was in the calculation of 4 x 504 :)

Oh yeah.  Oops.

Look! It's the Goodyear blimp! [runs away]

-- 
David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david

This is a signature.  There are many like it but this one is mine.

RE: Interesting Numbers

[Wilson, Andrew (Belfast)]

> Assuming the latter ...
> 
>x/6 + x/12 + x/7 + 5 + y + 4 = x # son's life is y
>y = (x/6 + x/12 + x/7 + 5 + y)/2

Actually  y = (x - 4) / 2 is easier to work with.

cheers

Andrew

Re: Interesting Numbers

[Dave Cross]

From: David Cantrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 10/19/01 12:31:29 PM

>On Fri, Oct 19, 2001 at 09:48:51AM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:
>> And finally a quick riddle, where you have to work out 
>> the age of Diophantus,
>>   "Here lies Diophantus," the wonder behold . . .
>>   Through art algebraic, the stone tells how old:
>>   "God gave him his boyhood one-sixth of his life,
>>   One twelfth more as youth while whiskers grew rife;
>>   And then yet one-seventh ere marriage begun;
>>   In five years there came a bouncing new son.
>>   Alas, the dear child of master and sage
>>   After attaining half the measure of his fathers life
>>   chill fate took him.
>>   After consoling his fate by this science of numbers for
>>   four years, he ended his life." 
>
> This is trivial, but can give two answers depending on 
> how you interpret "half the measure of his fathers 
> life".  Is it half the measure of his father's *entire* 
> life, or half the measure of his father's life up until
> that point?

Yeah. Spotted that, but went with the most obvious one
(the first one).

> Assuming the former ...

As did I.

>   x/6 + x/12 + x/7 + 5 + x/2 + 4 = x

Well, we started with the same equation

> => 84x + 42x + 72x + 2520 + 252x + 1008 = 504x # multiply
by 504

I multiplied by 84. Giving

14x + 7x + 12x + 420 + 42x + 336 = 84x

> => 2520 + 1008 = 3528 = 54x

756 = 9x

>=> x = 65 yrs 4 months, give or take a day or two

x = 84

I believe your error was in the calculation of 4 x 504 :)

hth,

Dave...
-- 


"Let me see you make decisions, without your television"
   - Depeche Mode (Stripped)

RE: Interesting Numbers

[Richard Clyne]

But Diophantus studied equations that are solvable in integers only.  I
reckon that that is a clue to the desired solution.

Richard

RE: happy birthday #london.pm!

[Wilson, Andrew (Belfast)]

> > You passing up the chance for a celebration?
> 
> Nope, I'm just deeply cynical about made-up geek events like this and
> 1e9.  It'll do until Halloween though, I suppose.

As opposed to a made up event like Halloween or Christmas?

cheers

Andrew

The Visual Display of Quantitative Information

[Kate L Pugh]

Here's the post of Tony Finch's to oxbridge.tat (yes, I have his
permission to repost it) that persuaded me to buy this book. Below
it is my reply, which is less well-written, but has excerpts.

Kake

---
Tony Finch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Tufte inspired me to write this, originally for a thread elsewhere about
> programming books, but what the hell, I'll repost it here. Any crapness
> is because it was written at three in the morning.
> 
> One of the common underlying themes of great computer science
> textbooks is the aesthetics of complexity, by which I do not mean the
> glorification of the complicated; on the contrary, they are all about
> finding the simplicity that underlies the complicated. A section of
> one of these textbooks will typically start by explaining a difficult
> problem, and then it will deftly reveal some abstraction or theory
> that magically makes the problem simple. A really great textbook will
> then leave the reader wondering what was so difficult about the
> problem in the first place.
> 
> This is the essence of software engineering: decomposing an activity
> into simple parts that fit together smoothly and elegantly. It is the
> creation of abstractions -- data structures and algorithms, objects
> and methods -- that together not only solve the problem, but also
> illustrate how the solution works. Good software gives you a new
> understanding that allows you to solve related problems by simply
> fitting together the parts of the software in new ways; really good
> software provides such powerful abstractions that the parts fit
> together in ways that the original designer didn't expect, to solve
> problems outside the original scope.
> 
> Bad software is like those humorous posters depicting "a day at the
> beach", covered with hundreds of people doing ridiculous things.
> Little bits of it may be amusing, but they combine to make a whole
> that is messy and ugly. Good software is like Monet's Water Lilies,
> where the basic theme of the brush strokes builds up to an attractive
> whole. It's the miscellaneous collection of buildings of Oxford's
> Bodleian compared to the coherent whole of the Cambridge University
> Library. It's the soundtrack for a Tom & Jerry cartoon compared to a
> Bach fuge.
> 
> The IOCCC is such a great joke because it is the ultimate satire on
> software engineering: it glorifies the complicated, the special-
> purpose, the incomprehensible. An IOCCC winner is like a Heath
> Robinson mechanism in the way it employs a wonderful intricacy to
> perform a trivial task. There is irony too, though, because without
> using abstractions an IOCCC entry cannot accomplish enough to win; and
> without elegance of composition a Heath Robinson painting cannot
> illustrate the workings of its ridiculous machine.
> 
> One of the things that distinguishes 21st century programming from
> programming in earlier eras is that it has become much more about
> communicating with other people, rather than purely about making
> computers do things. Our machines have enough capacity that we can
> afford the luxury of explanation as well as operation. This is why I
> think Knuth should be shunned. Although the text of the Art of
> Computer Programming does a good job of discussing the mathematical
> principles of algorithms and data structures, his code is stuck in the
> era before structured programming. It is very hard to transcribe
> either his spaghetti English or his prematurely optimised assembler
> into what would nowadays be considered code of acceptable quality.
> This is not just unthinking "goto considered harmful" dogma: it also
> weakens the books' credibility in the areas of formal correctness and
> rigour, since the mathematical tools we nowadays use to understand
> code formally depend on structured programming. These are the same
> tools used by compilers to optimise code, so code written to the
> common best practice will alco run most efficiently. He refuses to
> address this deficiency in the forthcoming editions of his books,
> preferring to remain defiantly 40 years out of date. I therefore
> recommend that Knuth should be way down on people'd shopping lists,
> after books by Sedgwick and Cormen/Leiserson/Rivest and Okasaki.
> 
> In contrast, a book which does describe the right way to approach
> design isn't about programming at all. Tufte's Visual Display of
> Quantitative Information may be about statistical graphs, but the
> principles it expounds are also principles of software engineering.
> Its main themes are economy and elegance, and the rules it derives are
> based on Einstein's razor "as simple as possible, but no simpler", and
> using orthogonality to allow a single graphical element to perform
> multiple tasks. It is thoroughly excellent: as you would expect, it is
> beautiful to behold, but it is also very readable. The text has a
> personality, opinionated yet modest: a

Re: Interesting Numbers

[Peter Haworth]

On Fri, 19 Oct 2001 09:48:51 +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:
>4840 
>   Clue: Robin Szmeti I think will have the best chance. 

For some reason, this sounds like a tape drive to me

>3 , 7 , 31 , 127
> Clue: They are in sequence

2**p - 1, where p is prime

-- 
Peter Haworth   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
"Maybe you win, and maybe you lose.
 Life is tough sometimes.  And Larry is a fink."
-- Larry Wall

Re: happy birthday #london.pm!

[Richard Clamp]

On Fri, Oct 19, 2001 at 12:27:59PM +0100, Simon Wistow wrote:
> Ok, the current incarnation of #london.pm on london.rhizomatic.net then :)
> 
> You passing up the chance for a celebration?

Nope, I'm just deeply cynical about made-up geek events like this and
1e9.  It'll do until Halloween though, I suppose.

-- 
Richard Clamp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: Interesting Numbers

[David Cantrell]

On Fri, Oct 19, 2001 at 09:48:51AM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:
> And finally a quick riddle, where you have to work out the age of
> Diophantus,
>   "Here lies Diophantus," the wonder behold . . .
>   Through art algebraic, the stone tells how old:
> "God gave him his boyhood one-sixth of his life,
> One twelfth more as youth while whiskers grew rife;
> And then yet one-seventh ere marriage begun;
> In five years there came a bouncing new son.
> Alas, the dear child of master and sage
> After attaining half the measure of his fathers life
> chill fate took him.
> After consoling his fate by this science of numbers for
> four years,
> he ended his life." 

This is trivial, but can give two answers depending on how you interpret
"half the measure of his fathers life".  Is it half the measure of his
father's *entire* life, or half the measure of his father's life up until
that point?

Yes yes, I know, immediately spotting the ambiguity.  Feel free to mutter
about typical bloody programmers.

Assuming the former ...

   x/6 + x/12 + x/7 + 5 + x/2 + 4 = x
=> 84x + 42x + 72x + 2520 + 252x + 1008 = 504x # multiply by 504
=> 2520 + 1008 = 3528 = 54x
=> x = 65 yrs 4 months, give or take a day or two

Assuming the latter ...

   x/6 + x/12 + x/7 + 5 + y + 4 = x # son's life is y
   y = (x/6 + x/12 + x/7 + 5 + y)/2

solving for x is left as an exercise for the reader.

-- 
David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david

If you save all your money for three years, you'll be able to afford this
new computer.  If, however, you blow all your money on poker, booze and
loose women - you'll still be able to afford it in three years.
  -- anon, on Usenet

Re: happy birthday #london.pm!

[Simon Wistow]

On Fri, Oct 19, 2001 at 12:11:59PM +0100, Richard Clamp said:

> Nope, it ain't, we did this before though.

Ok, the current incarnation of #london.pm on london.rhizomatic.net then :)

You passing up the chance for a celebration?

-- 
: off the wagon and hitching a ride

[nat.pryce@b13media.com: [ruby-talk:22730] ANN: XP-Day, London, 15/12/2001]

[Leon Brocard]

Join the XP cult!

- Forwarded message from Nat Pryce <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -

From: "Nat Pryce" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [ruby-talk:22730] ANN: XP-Day, London, 15/12/2001
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (ruby-talk ML)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 19:54:31 +0900
Organization: B13media Ltd.
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700

This is slightly off topic, but there has been some interest in eXtreme Programming 
expressed on this list and the Rubygarden Wiki, so I thought I would pass this 
announcement on for the benefit of Ruby users in the UK...

Cheers,
Nat.


The Extreme Tuesday Club in conjunction with the BCS OOPS group is running a one day 
event devoted to eXtreme Programming (XP) and Agile Development. 

It will take place on December 15th at London's Imperial College. 

Highlights include: 
- Martin Fowler giving the keynote presentation
- hands-on workshops
- tutorials by XP practioners

All software developers and project managers are welcome: for more details see the XP 
Day web site at http://xpday.xpdeveloper.com/ or email [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Dr. Nathaniel Pryce
B13media Ltd.
40-41 Whiskin St, London, EC1R 0BP, UK
http://www.b13media.com


- End forwarded message -

-- 
Leon Brocard.http://www.astray.com/
Nanoware...http://www.nanoware.org/

... Useless invention no. 404: Inflatable anchor 

Re: happy birthday #london.pm!

[Richard Clamp]

On Fri, Oct 19, 2001 at 11:57:53AM +0100, Simon Wistow wrote:
>  Channel #london.pm was created at Thu Oct 19 14:48:32 2000
> 
> Which by my reckoning means that #london.pm's first birthday is today in a few hours 
>:)

Nope, it ain't, we did this before though.

*rummage*

-- 
Richard Clamp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>



[jay:~/irc/logs/2000] richardc% head token.rhizomatic.net,#london.pm.xchatlog
 BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Sep 29 11:55:34 2000

--> richardc ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) has joined #London.pm
--- Topic for #London.pm is We're going to barbados !
--- Topic for #London.pm set by gellyfish at Fri Sep 29 09:35:10 2000

The channel is already more than a year old, and that's without
counting the #london-pm that existed on efnet back when I was still
working in Birmingham - I don't have logs from then but it is
referenced in my copious mail archive back in September 1999.

 Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:16:29 +0100
 From: Greg McCarroll <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 Subject: IRC
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Does anyone still use the #london-pm IRC channel?


So there :)

-- 
Richard Clamp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: OS X updater woes

[Richard Clamp]

On Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 11:10:50PM -0700, Paul Makepeace wrote:
> So owing to a dearth of X.1 CDs I had a friend rip a copy for me, but it
> doesn't boot. Is there a way with the Mac to force it to boot off CD?

Hold down C.

If I were you though I just wouldn't go there.  That it won't boot
seems like a indication that you have a duff CD that'll crap out
halfway through the upgrade process (read untarring all the files over
your existing /) leaving you with a hosed system.

-- 
Richard Clamp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: TPJ

[Peter Haworth]

On Mon, 8 Oct 2001 16:00:22 +0100, David Cantrell wrote:
> I just heard from Shannon Weaver at CMP, she responded to my email very
> quickly and deserves all the positive karma we can give her.  She says
> that the distributors cocked up, and that TPJs are being sent out this
> week.

So has anyone got theirs yet? I just got a renewal notice for something I
haven't even received, yet!

-- 
Peter Haworth   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
"There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it
 so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies and the other way is to
 make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies."
-- C.A.R. Hoare

happy birthday #london.pm!

[Simon Wistow]

This is what I get when I connect to #london.pm on london.rhizomatic.net (aka 
astray.com aka huckvale.net aka
twoshortplanks.com aka thegestalt.org aka annares.org) 

¨Ý¨ [Highest client connection count(56) (55)]
¨Ý¨ Mode change [+iw] for user muttley
¨Ý¨ muttley [~[EMAIL PROTECTED]] has joined #london.pm
¨Ý¨ Topic (#london.pm): I've run away to London and I'm *not* coming back!
¨Ý¨ Topic (#london.pm): set by pdcawley at Fri Oct 19 11:37:43 2001
¨Ý¨ [Users(#london.pm:33)]
[ muttley   ] [@Co-Kane   ] [@slavorg   ] [@space ] [@pdcawley  ]
[@idoru ] [@Kai   ] [@unimatrix ] [@sheriff   ] [@hitherto  ]
[@TeeJay] [@Alex  ] [@Jouke ] [@Elthek] [ boris ]
[@DrHyde] [@kilinrax  ] [@qazaq ] [@aef_work  ] [@gilc  ]
[@grexnix   ] [@dumrats   ] [vdadadodo  ] [@essuu ] [@Ranguard  ]
[@Kake  ] [@Trelane   ] [vlala  ] [@mjl   ] [@Magnus]
[vdipsy ] [vscribot   ] [@acme  ]
¨Ý¨ Channel #london.pm was created at Thu Oct 19 14:48:32 2000
¨Ý¨ mode/#london.pm [+o muttley] by slavorg

Which by my reckoning means that #london.pm's first birthday is today in a few hours :)

Good excuse for a party any way :)

-- 
: off the wagon and hitching a ride

Short Notice Dim Sum

[Simon Wilcox]

Dave H is in town today and we're going for Dim Sum at 1pm, New World, 1
Gerard Place. All welcome as always.

Sorry for the short notice but he only just decided he wanted to go !

Simon.

-- 
"I was reading the dictionary. I thought it was a poem about everything."
  - Steven Wright

JOB: [ Fw: Help! Perl coder required.]

[Leo Lapworth]

Hi - this bounced from your london.pm.org address.

- Original Message -
From: "Nick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 19 October 2001 11:41
Subject: Help! Perl coder required.


> Hi Leo
>
> I hope this isn't out of order. Got your email from http://london.pm.org/.
> If you think it's inappropriate I promise not to do it again.
>
> But... we've got a vacancy for a Perl coder, which I thought you and your
> comrades in arms might be interested in. Full spec can be found here:
> http://www.clickmusic.co.uk/Clickmusic_Web_Guide/Jobs/
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
> Regards,
>
> Nick
>
> Nick Evans
> Editorial Producer
> www.clickmusic.com
> www.clickmusicbiz.com
> www.sonicadvertising.com
> e: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> p: 020 7727 7500
> f: 020 7727 7200
> a: The New Boathouse, 136-142 Bramley Rd, W10 6SR
>
> You were born. And so you're free. So happy birthday.
>

Re: PDA games

[Redvers Davies]

As a part of my PDA exploits I was looking at Agenda (www.agendacomputing.com).
Their PDA is 250US$ and runs Linux and X as its native OS.

I was camping (since someone mentioned EQ before) their IRC channel
for most of yesterday and talking to one of the OS entuiasts and developers
who has endless fun porting and writing X applications for the thing.

He has written/ported his Atari 800 emulator to his PDA which rocks).

I was talking to him about the feasability of porting  xspectrum, xzx et al
to the Agenda.. he said that the only modifications that usually need to be made
are scaling modifications due to the lower resolutionof the PDA.

Hmmm, spectru, in your pocket.  Elite in your pocket.

Hmm =)

Red

RE: Writing a Perl Game

[Pierre DENIS]

That sounds a great idea.
I learned programmation, probably like many of us, by programming games. I
was so bad at playing games so I decided to create my own to have a chance
to win :-) I found it more fun than playing.

I don't know if any help, but here are some ideas:
- It's a good opportunity to use interesting stuffs such as SOAP or XML-RPC,
in peer to peer architecture.
- The world changes real-time (like everquest). Not sure it fits with a peer
to peer architecture.
- Instead of developing a fixed code for playing it, a basic version can be
provided. The interface is defined, not the code. Why? The game would be to
program the best AI module to survive in the virtual world created. Ok, I'll
try to be clear. Suppose an adventure game is developped. It has characters,
cities, spells and a lot of stuffs. A new player run the perl source
provided and start to play. Fine. But the characters he starts with are
quite stupids. How can they become more clever? Either by playing a lot with
them to improve their performances, either by creating hier/her own classes
and create a better code. So instead of having one source code, one can
provide the base classes, and people can hack them and tune them to improve
performances. You can call it mutagenic game (oops, I've heard that term
before).
- More AI: characters learn things when communicating to each other. If you
make friend with another person, you can exchange not only money, food...
but also "knowledge" and "awarness" of the outside world. And I'm not
talking about extra points, but really object behavior.

Not sure I'll have time, it depends of the size and length of the project,
but if I can I'd be happy to give a hand.

Pierre

> -Original Message-
> Subject: Writing a Perl Game

> I'd like to write a game and I'd rather do it as a group project with
> some friends, to simply make it a bit more fun.

> What sort of game? Maybe an adventure, maybe multiplayer, maybe some
> sort strategy or trading game. I don't mind, I'd just like to do it.

> Greg

PDA games

[Matthew Jones]

On 17 October 2001, Scottow Adrian wrote:
> But Elite did rule.  Has anyone ever played Space Trader on 
> the Palm for sort of Elite style fun on the run?

I rather like Void. No, the Palm game:
http://www.fortunecity.com/skyscraper/bugfix/1327/id50.htm

Hey, it just occurred to me that I haven't tried it with the stowaway
keyboard yet.

Hey, can anyone recommend a top-down strat (fave genre) game for PalmOS? Not
Strategic Command though, thanks, I've tried it and hated it.

-- 
Matthew Jones

RE: RE: Writing a Perl Game

[Dave Cross]

From: Scottow Adrian - adscot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 10/19/01 9:39:51 AM

[Greg's game idea]

> I loved Nethack/Rogue/Moria and think that this would be 
> a brilliant thing to do.  How about mixing the dungeon 
> delving with some kind of trading element and maybe some 
> kind of building element (how about a castle or village 
> or stronghold) and quests .  We could even go the whole 
> hog and make it Middle Earth based.   Sorry I am half 
> through reading Lord of the Rings again after about ten 
> years and I am feeling quite inspired.  I'd love to help.

Didn't Moria have a trading element? IIRC you could buy equipment
from a trading post above the mines.

The PC version of Rogue was the first game I hacked with a hex
editor. I found the monster description table and changed all
the damage numbers to zero.

Made the game a _lot_ easier :)

Dave...

p.s. And whilst we're on the subject of LotR. I highly recommend
Date::Tolkien::Shire.

-- 


"Let me see you make decisions, without your television"
   - Depeche Mode (Stripped)

RE: Interesting Numbers

[Dave Cross]

From: Greg McCarroll <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 10/19/01 9:48:51 AM

> And finally a quick riddle, where you have to work out 
> the age of Diophantus,
>
>  "Here lies Diophantus," the wonder behold . . .
>  Through art algebraic, the stone tells how old:
>  "God gave him his boyhood one-sixth of his life,
>  One twelfth more as youth while whiskers grew rife;
>  And then yet one-seventh ere marriage begun;
>  In five years there came a bouncing new son.
>  Alas, the dear child of master and sage
>  After attaining half the measure of his fathers life
>  chill fate took him.
>  After consoling his fate by this science of numbers for
>  four years,
>  he ended his life." 

S
P
O
I
L
E
R

S
P
A
C
E
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

He was 84 when he died.

Dave...

-- 


"Let me see you make decisions, without your television"
   - Depeche Mode (Stripped)

RE: Writing a Perl Game

[Scottow Adrian - adscot]

Hello,

Greg said:
> But what I'd really like is something as flexible as Nethack in terms
> of the fact that a lot of the code, doesn't just implement mechanics,
> it invents richness - and this is why i want lots of people to be
> involved so that their is lots of ``richness'', if you get my drift.

I loved Nethack/Rogue/Moria and think that this would be a brilliant thing
to do.  How about mixing the dungeon delving with some kind of trading
element and maybe some kind of building element (how about a castle or
village or stronghold) and quests .  We could even go the whole hog and make
it Middle Earth based.   Sorry I am half through reading Lord of the
Rings again after about ten years and I am feeling quite inspired.  I'd love
to help.

Cheers,

Adrian.


The information contained in this communication is
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If you have received this communication in error, please 
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system.

Interesting Numbers

[Greg McCarroll]

Well because of the following discussion 

* Leo Lapworth ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 19, 2001 at 08:01:54AM +0200, Newton, Philip wrote:
> > > london.pm.org   MX  42 london.pm.org
> > > london.pm.org   MX  69 mailhost.realprogrammers.com
> > Did you pick those two numbers out of a hat at random? :)
> 42 - answer to life the universe and everything
> 69 - *snigger*

I remembered one of my favourite books, "The Penguin Dictionary of
Curious and Interesting Numbers". And so seeing as its Friday, I
thought It might be a fun game for me to pick some interesting
numbers and sets of numbers and see if people can guess/spot what is
special about them.

So hear we go (some are easy, some are pretty much impossible)..

   4840   
Clue: Robin Szmeti I think will have the best chance. 
   1 , 9 , 36 , 84 , 126
Clue: Don't use C to work this out
   3 , 7 , 31 , 127
Clue: They are in sequence
   212
Clue: Mark Fowler should know this one
   714
Clue: Jack built something, but he wasn't the only one
   231
Clue: You'll need the revised edition of the book to work this
one out. (WARNING: I don't think anyone will get this one)

And finally a quick riddle, where you have to work out the age of
Diophantus,

"Here lies Diophantus," the wonder behold . . .
Through art algebraic, the stone tells how old:
"God gave him his boyhood one-sixth of his life,
One twelfth more as youth while whiskers grew rife;
And then yet one-seventh ere marriage begun;
In five years there came a bouncing new son.
Alas, the dear child of master and sage
After attaining half the measure of his fathers life
chill fate took him.
After consoling his fate by this science of numbers for
four years,
he ended his life." 

Well I hope it gives someone some fun,

Greg





-- 
Greg McCarroll http://217.34.97.146/~gem/

Re: Netiquette was Re: [Perl Jobs] CGI / MySQL developer (onsite), UK, London]

[Dave Cross]

From: "Dave Cross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 10/18/01 1:27:36 PM

>From: Matthew Byng-Maddick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Date: 10/18/01 12:36:55 PM
>
> [rant snipped]
>
> I've said this before and I'll (no doubt) have to say it 
> again in the future.
>
> The london.pm mailing list is meant to be inclusive. 
> Everyone is welcome here. This means that we _do_ _not_ 
> flame people simply because they fail to use our 
> favourite mail client or don't post strictly in line with 
> the usual guidelines.
>
> Yes, we have (many) people on the list who have been on 
> the internet for a long time and can quote RFCs at length 
> to back up all of the netiquette rules, but it's a 
> complete waste of time. Most people on the internet 
> aren't like that these days. Most people happily post 
> using MS Outlook because that's what they get given at 
> work. Most people reply "jeopardy style" because that's 
> what their mail client encourages them to do.
>
> If you shout at them, they'll just leave the list and 
> complain how elitist we are. I don't want that to happen. 
> If anyone thinks that's an acceptable outcome then 
> perhaps they are on the wrong list.
>
> The battle against the invading barbarian hordes was lost 
> years ago. Learn to live with it. Or annex your own part 
> of the internet and impose your strict rules there.
>
> But don't do it on this list.
>
> There's nothing to see here. Move along now.

Sigh.

Perhaps I wasn't as clear as I thought I was.

This discussion is uninteresting and unhelpful. But worse that
that, it has the potential to make us appear elitist and unwelcoming.
I will not allow that on this list.

Please consider the topic closed. Anyone continuing this discussion
will be immediately removed from the list. The people who continued
the discussion yesterday can consider themselves lucky that I'm
in a benevolent mood and haven't already unsubbed them.

That is all.

Dave...

-- 


"Let me see you make decisions, without your television"
   - Depeche Mode (Stripped)

Re: london.pm.org NS & MX go go go!

[Leo Lapworth]

On Fri, Oct 19, 2001 at 08:01:54AM +0200, Newton, Philip wrote:
> Paul Makepeace wrote:
> > $ mx london.pm.org. ns1.access.net
> > london.pm.org   MX  42 london.pm.org
> > london.pm.org   MX  69 mailhost.realprogrammers.com
> 
> Did you pick those two numbers out of a hat at random? :)

42 - answer to life the universe and everything

69 - *snigger*

Sheesh, where have you been Philip :)

Leo