Re: BOOK: XSLT Cookbook
At 22:08 12/03/03, David Cantrell wrote: If anyone - not on the naughty list - wants to review the XSLT Cookbook they can grab it off me at the tech meet. I'd love to review this, but if I am not already on Dave's naughty list I ought to be I have quite a few review books for DiverseBooks.com including some perl ones! I also wont be at the Tech meeting as I am going to the launch party of Tor UK. (Tor is a very popular American SF imprint) woo woo. If anyone wants to review books, chat about writing software for a book reviews website, or just wants a free drink turn up at my place, Leytonstone sometime on Saturday afternoon. Email for directions or phone 020 89264753. Its my birthday but no presents or cards are needed, but it would be nice if you brought something to eat or drink or both. Alex Available for java/perl/C++/web development in London, UK or nearby. Apache FOP, Cocoon, Turbine, Struts,XSL:FO, XML, Tomcat, JSP http://www.OWAL.co.uk/
Re: Perl 6 Apocalypse 6
Piers Cawley wrote: ...Piers is perfectly capable of coding equally cleverly in Python, or Java, or Pascal or any other language. ;-) Frankly, Piers would rather stick his nuts in a blender than program in either Python, Java or Pascal thank you very much. Now you're just being silly. I mean, where would they find a blender big enough??? ;-) Damian
Re: Perl 6 Apocalypse 6
On Thu, Mar 13, 2003 at 11:12:45AM +, Aaron Trevena wrote: Anybody who reckons perl is hard to learn just hasn't tried to learn. Do you realise how obnoxious this kind of statement is? Probably not. Imagine if you *had* tried to learn, and struggled, and then read something like this. What would you think feel? How might that then colour your view of perl programmers? How quickly might you find yourself buying the Python/Java/Pascal in a Nutshell book(s)? Paul -- Paul Makepeace ... http://paulm.com/ What is the name of the two dots that go over the letters in the German language? The mind of the biggest head. -- http://paulm.com/toys/surrealism/
Re: Book needed
This may not be suitable for a public list but I've been wondering about writing a computing book and was wondering what people thought was needed. I'm reasonably up there in perl, java, XML, web etc so mention anything you like. I'm also thinking about doing a general purpose Pocket Essential Guide to Open Source and Free Software which will obviously mention perl. Hi Alex, What about a Linux/Unix Cookbook? I think there's a gap in the market for this type of book .. 'Linux Server Hacks' is the closest thing I've seen to it but it still doesn't cover all the 'recipes' you need. So something like 'Unix Power Tools' meets 'Linux Server Hacks' meets the 'Perl Cookbook' Nige -- Nigel Hamilton Turbo10 Metasearch Engine email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] tel:+44 (0) 207 987 5460 fax:+44 (0) 207 987 5468 http://turbo10.com Search Deeper. Browse Faster.
Re: Perl 6 Apocalypse 6
On Thu, Mar 13, 2003 at 11:12:45AM +, Aaron Trevena wrote: Anybody who reckons perl is hard to learn just hasn't tried to learn. I found the learning curve long and low ... but it always felt like there might be a cliff at the end ... NIge -- Nigel Hamilton Turbo10 Metasearch Engine email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] tel:+44 (0) 207 987 5460 fax:+44 (0) 207 987 5468 http://turbo10.com Search Deeper. Browse Faster.
[ANNOUNCE] London.pm Mentoring Program + Tech Meet Tonight!
[ First up, don't forget, there's a Technical Meeting tonight at Yahoo!
For full details see: http://london.pm.org/lpm/20030303/017342.html ]
London.pm's mentoring program is a new scheme launched by London.pm as way
to allow people wanting to learn more about Perl to directly benefit from
the more experienced members of the group. The scheme tries to pair
together students with mentors; This directly flexible one-on-one
training relationship allows mentoring by mixture of email, irc/instant
messaging or real life face to face meetings (whatever works best for the
mentor and student)
The training scheme is aimed at training all levels of Perl programmers,
from someone who has never programmed before, up to someone who's been
programming Perl for a while who might need some extra help with something
like OO programming, learning about database access, or better CGI
discipline.
At this stage the scheme is seeking out potential students who believe
that they could benefit from the scheme. A short mail sent to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] including details such as level of experience and
approximate details of where you live/work should enable us to find a
mentor that is best suited in terms of training disciplines and ability to
meet face to face with you.
Hoping to hear from you soon (and possibly see you at the meet tonight)
Mark.
--
#!/usr/bin/perl -T
use strict;
use warnings;
print q{Mark Fowler, [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://twoshortplanks.com/};
Re: Perl 6 Apocalypse 6
On Thu, 13 Mar 2003, Paul Makepeace wrote: On Thu, Mar 13, 2003 at 11:12:45AM +, Aaron Trevena wrote: Anybody who reckons perl is hard to learn just hasn't tried to learn. Do you realise how obnoxious this kind of statement is? Probably not. Imagine if you *had* tried to learn, and struggled, and then read something like this. What would you think feel? How might that then colour your view of perl programmers? How quickly might you find yourself buying the Python/Java/Pascal in a Nutshell book(s)? ha! I have java in a nutshell and you certainly couldn't pick up java from it, if you want to learn java buy 'learning java', if you want to learn perl buy 'learning perl'. I'm hardly a super-hacker, I managed a CS Nat Dip and a Computing Degree but TBH that doesn't make you a good programmer. There is a really shallow slope for learning perl - compare this to the fuss needed to print hello world in Java. Even pascal and cobol seem tortuous to learn compared to perl, and neither had the brilliant support or documentation or literiture that perl has. If I learnt perl without any books or courses and colleagues without CS degrees have learnt enough to be very productive in a couple of evenings readings how can it be hard. Perl is only hard to learn if you haven't already learnt to program. If you are learning to program try pascal or basic then try c, perl and java. Java is harder than perl for non-programmers. If you never actually understood or learnt programming but are essentially a monkey trained to repeat the same 10 mouse clicks you learnt on your VB course then it will be hard, because you still don't understand programming. Its like complaining that driving a nice audi is hard because you've only ever driving a go-kart around a car park !! regards, A. -- Aaron J Trevena - Perl Hacker, Kung Fu Geek, Internet Consultant AutoDia --- Automatic UML and HTML Specifications from Perl, C++ and Any Datasource with a Handler. http://droogs.org/autodia
Re: Perl 6 Apocalypse 6
Damian Conway [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Piers Cawley wrote: ...Piers is perfectly capable of coding equally cleverly in Python, or Java, or Pascal or any other language. ;-) Frankly, Piers would rather stick his nuts in a blender than program in either Python, Java or Pascal thank you very much. Now you're just being silly. I mean, where would they find a blender big enough??? You are a Very Bad Man. As if we didn't already know this. -- Piers
Re: [ANNOUNCE] London.pm Tech Meet Thurs March 13th + Social Tonight
Mark Fowler said: full directions are below. As before you should aim to get to Yahoo! for 7pm, for a 7.15pm sharp start. The meeting should last just over a couple of hours, and we will be retiring to a nearby drinking establishment afterwards for discussion of talks. is anyone going to be at the pub before the meet as well? if so i'll grab an earlier (emptier) train. Jody
External Mic for tonights meeting?
Hi all. I'm bringing my camcorder along tonight to film[1] the speakers presentations. Has anyone got a suitable external microphone they can bring along? The socket in my camcorder appears to be 3.5mm (my headphones fit in there) Lee [1] Well, feed it straight into the Mac, and save messing about with tapes etc.
Re: Looking for a better way
Graham Barr ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
On Mon, Mar 10, 2003 at 09:44:08PM +0530, shn wrote:
I was just bored and was wondering what would be a better way to titlecase
something, using this right now:
perl -e $_='boink boink';@a=split' ';foreach(@a){$_=ucfirst;}$_=join' ',@a;print
perl -le $_='boink boink'; s/(\w+)/\u$1/g; print
golf
echo boink boink | perl -pe 's/\b./\u$/g'
!-- no closing tag --
Driving
Aaron Trevena wrote: Its like complaining that driving a nice audi is hard because you've only ever driving a go-kart around a car park !! Driving an audi is hard because it's a big ugly /car/ with 4 wheels. Try a two wheeled device. Much easier! -Dom
Re: Perl 6 Apocalypse 6
On Thu, Mar 13, 2003 at 11:12:45AM +, Aaron Trevena wrote: Perl is easy to learn[**] - one of ex-colleagues learnt enough to handle mod_perl, searching, databases, etc in a couple of days just by reading the Llama and a couple of web pages. [**] I think you missed if you know Unix out of there. If you've never heard of grep, glob, split, local/gmtime, unlink, STDIN, ARGV, ... or seen a regular expression, it's all pretty bewildering. Even if you have, there's all the chop/chomp/splice/... cuteness to confuse. -- Chris Benson -- hoping to teach my first Perl course in nearly 2 years in April ... hoping they're not all HTML-programmers.
Perl, COM and ADO's - where do I start ?
Hi Folks, To cut a long story short I will be getting access to a COM interface which will return me ADO RecordSet objects for some information I need to put into another (mySQL) database. I've never used COM, or ADO (Active Data Object) so I'm looking for some documentation on where to start or a statment of It can't be done get them to write a different interface (needs to be avoided if possible for cost reasons). I've been googleing and CPANing, but nothing seems to relate to this situation (actually I might have seen something but not recognised it!). Ideals: --- I would prefer to do this all on a Linux Box, but a Windoz server could be organised as the processing bit, then piped out to mySQL on a Linux Box. This needs to be reasonably fast as it's updating a constant reporting process - something like a query every 5 seconds. Any pointers are much appeciated. Thanks Leo
Re: Driving
On Thu, Mar 13, 2003 at 01:45:43PM +, Dominic Mitchell wrote: Aaron Trevena wrote: Its like complaining that driving a nice audi is hard because you've only ever driving a go-kart around a car park !! Driving an audi is hard because it's a big ugly /car/ with 4 wheels. Try a two wheeled device. Much easier! Or even three: http://www.ice.hpv.co.uk/ Then you don't fall over when you stop :-) -- Chris Benson
RE: External Mic for tonights meeting?
I'm bringing my camcorder along tonight to film[1] the speakers presentations. You'll need to ask each of the speakers if they want you to do this. I mentioned this earlier this week (when you sent out the reminder). At least Celia and myself (Lee sits one desk over from me, it's his camcorder, but this was my idea/fault) want to do this, because it's a good way of improving our presentation style. If anyone else wants to get immortalised on to hard disk, I'm more than happy to edit the resulting files and either put them up on a web site somewhere, or mail them out on CD to the speakers. N -- 11 2 3 4 5 6 77 0 0 0 0 0 0 05 -- The 75 column-ometer Global Messaging, A: Top posting 120 Cheapside, x83331 Q: What's the most annoying e-mail habit?
RE: [ANNOUNCE] London.pm Tech Meet Thurs March 13th + Social Tonight
is anyone going to be at the pub before the meet as well? if so i'll grab an earlier (emptier) train. At least three of us will be at some pub in the vicinity by about 6ish. Is there a preferred venue? N -- 11 2 3 4 5 6 77 0 0 0 0 0 0 05 -- The 75 column-ometer Global Messaging, A: Top posting 120 Cheapside, x83331 Q: What's the most annoying e-mail habit?
RE: External Mic for tonights meeting?
I'm bringing my camcorder along tonight to film[1] the speakers presentations. You'll need to ask each of the speakers if they want you to do this. OK. I'll be the guy wearing a sling, and floating about with a Mac and a DV camera. I'll make myself known to each speaker. Lee
Re: External Mic for tonights meeting?
On Thu, Mar 13, 2003 at 03:24:15PM +, Simon Wilcox said: I think this is a myth put forward by school teachers and trainers. The best help I have ever had for technical presentation is MJD's slides on the subject, I think if you read them and think about them a little, every year or two, it is much better than grimacing at a video of yourself. However please ignore the bit about the cute picture in his slides. Where are these please ? http://perl.plover.com/yak/presentation/
Re: Perl 6 Apocalypse 6
On Thu, 2003-03-13 at 15:43, Shevek wrote: I then got bored and started programming it. I think my knowledge of Perl (native) is complete. I wonder if Damian would make such a claim... My opinion on programming (this week) is that the modern generation of programmer has never used any system where commands are executed as you type them, and thus they have no concept of a sequence of instructions, and therefore they cannot program. Understanding a program as a sequence of instructions does seem like a rather old fashioned way of thinking. But then I thought Perl was post-modern? alex -- alex [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Perl 6 Apocalypse 6
On 13 Mar 2003, alex wrote: On Thu, 2003-03-13 at 15:43, Shevek wrote: My opinion on programming (this week) is that the modern generation of programmer has never used any system where commands are executed as you type them, and thus they have no concept of a sequence of instructions, and therefore they cannot program. Understanding a program as a sequence of instructions does seem like a rather old fashioned way of thinking. But then I thought Perl was post-modern? Retro is the new post-modern. See the hordes of users (and possible future programmers) revelling in the pointy-clicky web world, little do they realise that the whizziest features they have are often the result of just a few fairly trivial lines in some archaic-looking text-in-an-xterm. the hatter
Undergraduate Decay (was Re: Perl 6 Apocalypse 6)
On Thu, 2003-03-13 at 15:43, Shevek wrote:
My opinion on programming (this week) is that the modern generation of
programmer has never used any system where commands are executed as you
type them, and thus they have no concept of a sequence of instructions,
and therefore they cannot program.
I think that this is a major problem. I think that undergraduates are (in
general, specific cases excluded) a major problem. I think many things.
OK, I couldn't resist the flame bait...
I used to love being an undergrad, and being constantly reminded by the
older developers/members of staff, about our failings, and how we
weren't as good as the graduates before us, and how we never really got
it. Bollocks to that, I say. if we didn't get it, what weren't they
teaching?
*sigh* The old school gave us BASIC, the new(er) school will give us
Perl6. Can't see much of a regression here.
... Right, got that out of my system. Sorry for the rant.
I do, however, agree with you Mr Shevek (despite my comments above).
I've seen too many point'n'click graduates who couldn't write
structured code to save their lives, and (more depressingly) can't see
why you'd want to (What do you mean 'you write your code by
hand'?!?!). I guess it's our (i.e. those who know about such things) to
help them out and show them basic principles. It's in our interest to
protect and develop our profession/passion/hobby/whatever. It's also in
our interest to start demanding (through work place requirements)
certain skills from our graduates. The universities/institutions usually
catch on.
Enough of my ramblings.
*wave*
Ian
--
s@[EMAIL PROTECTED]@##@@#y^#@712($;='z')s(..)0$1gs$0s(.)([^01])
$1x$2xge($.='a')s$d4823604df80d7e51d7018b9(@_=$...$;)undef$.;do
{s(.)(.*)(.)$..=$1.$3,$2e}while(length);s$.;$*=0;undef$.;$..=($_?$_[(
$*+=$_)[EMAIL
PROTECTED]:$)foreach(map{hex}m(..)g);s.*$.$/s(\b.)\U$1goprint
Re: Driving
On 13/03/03 14:30 +, Robin Szemeti wrote: ahh 2 wheels good, 4 wheels bad. well done sir. Can I recommend you promptly nip over to http://www.ixion.org.uk/ and join the mailing list ... it is to motorcycling what london.pm is to programming only less on topic. 2 wheels good, 4 wheels bad depends entirely on what you're doing. Transporting my new desk from Neasden to Islington last night would have been a right pain in the arse on any form of 2-wheeled transport. As, for that matter, would be getting the 100-150 quids' worth of booze we always seem to end up buying before we have a party. Getting to work in the morning on a bike, on the other hand, is way preferable to driving. Non-polluting, with no congestion charge and no parking nightmare either.
Re: Learning regular expressions
On Thu, 13 Mar 2003, Peter Sergeant wrote: If you've never heard of grep, glob, split, local/gmtime, unlink, STDIN, ARGV, ... or seen a regular expression, it's all pretty bewildering. Even if you have, there's all the chop/chomp/splice/... cuteness to confuse. This seems to be a recurring theme - regular expressions are hard. This is not my experience. After QBasic, Perl was the first language I learned, and regular expressions were a topic I found very easy (and there were plenty of topics I found hard, I'm sure). I wonder why it is some people find regexes such a mind-twister. I think there are two causes of this : - people don't see a regex as a function (something familar to every language) they see it as some kind of magic and fear it because it is different to what they have done before. - some of the newer (weaker ;) generation lack practice of the traditional problem space that programming has applied to - processing text and data, I think I can program quite well because I find pattern matching and finding relatively easy so regular expressions make perfect sense, newer programmers focus on mouse clicks, using objects and xml to get what they want out of an xml structure or using a cursor with methods to fetch data. The latter are the kind of people who are used to perhaps building ASP type pages where the programming consists of calling a load of functions inside some html, no structure, no text handling - and they do have to write application logic its usually horrible twisted spagetti or embedded into stored_procedures in even more hideous code. A. -- Aaron J Trevena - Perl Hacker, Kung Fu Geek, Internet Consultant AutoDia --- Automatic UML and HTML Specifications from Perl, C++ and Any Datasource with a Handler. http://droogs.org/autodia
Re: Learning regular expressions
On Thu, 13 Mar 2003, Peter Sergeant wrote: This seems to be a recurring theme - regular expressions are hard. This is not my experience. After QBasic, Perl was the first language I learned, and regular expressions were a topic I found very easy (and there were plenty of topics I found hard, I'm sure). I wonder why it is some people find regexes such a mind-twister. Not sure you can give a complete answer to this one, however I for one find regular expressions tricky due to the lack of decent docs available for them - particularly lack of examples to work from. Now I know I should just go and buy a book, however if anyone has any links to sites which they have found of use it would be much appreciated. Other then this, whilst regular expressions can be very powerful tools, they are not the most accessible (Write Once, Read Never is often the case for particularly complex ones) which makes the routine of reading other people's code to learn how it works a trickier one to approach. Having spent most of today wielding sed I think I'm slowly getting the hang of them, but my knowledge is only a small subset I am sure. RegExs are a brick wall I will continue to bash my head against, however I don't see the learning curve getting any easier. A. -- aca114
Re: Learning regular expressions
On Thu, Mar 13, 2003 at 04:24:16PM +, Peter Sergeant wrote: This seems to be a recurring theme - regular expressions are hard. This is not my experience. After QBasic, Perl was the first language I aol (apart from the qbasic bit) -- Lusercop.net - LARTing Lusers everywhere since 2002
[OT] Magazines
[ apologies if this appears twice. i'm sure i remember typing it this morning, but there seems to be no evidence to support this ] I've got almost complete collections of the UK magazines Linux Format and Linux Magazine and most of the last 3 or 4 years of Linux Journal and Web Techniques (aka New Architect). I've decided that they take up too much space and I never use them as the useful articles are all on the web anyway. So, they'll all be off to the tip a week on Sunday. Alternatively they are free to anyone who wants to pick them up from my house before then. Dave... -- http://www.dave.org.uk Let me see you make decisions, without your television - Depeche Mode (Stripped)
Re: Perl 6 Apocalypse 6
From: Damian Conway [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 3/13/03 11:22:58 AM Piers Cawley wrote: ...Piers is perfectly capable of coding equally cleverly in Python, or Java, or Pascal or any other language. ;-) Frankly, Piers would rather stick his nuts in a blender than program in either Python, Java or Pascal thank you very much. Now you're just being silly. I mean, where would they find a blender big enough??? ;-) Thank you both for that mental image! Dave... -- http://www.dave.org.uk Let me see you make decisions, without your television - Depeche Mode (Stripped)
Re: regrouping lines of STDIN
Jasper McCrea ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: I agree. Pub good. (But I'd rather spend the time breeding crabsticks) That was an obscure reference to Harry Hill, for those who don't have to suffer a flatmate with zany TV taste. OK, I have to admit it was pretty funny...
[OT] Magazines
[ apologies if this appears twice. i'm sure i remember typing it this morning, but there seems to be no evidence to support this ] I've got almost complete collections of the UK magazines Linux Format and Linux Magazine and most of the last 3 or 4 years of Linux Journal and Web Techniques (aka New Architect). I've decided that they take up too much space and I never use them as the useful articles are all on the web anyway. So, they'll all be off to the tip a week on Sunday. Alternatively they are free to anyone who wants to pick them up from my house before then. Dave... -- http://www.dave.org.uk Let me see you make decisions, without your television - Depeche Mode (Stripped)
Re: Learning regular expressions
On Thu, 13 Mar 2003, Peter Sergeant wrote: [...] I wonder why it is some people find regexes such a mind-twister. From: Adam C Auden [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 2:05 PM Not sure you can give a complete answer to this one, however I for one find regular expressions tricky due to the lack of decent docs available for them - particularly lack of examples to work from. I disagree. Regexps are quite well documented. There is even a manpage exclusively dedicated to it. =-] I think that Regexps are hard to learn because the most part of the folks that aren't too much scared to learn it just lack the essential and unavoidable compiler theory where regexp lays its foundations. IMHO, its simply impossible learn good quality regexp use unless you have good regular grammars theory before. Other then this, whilst regular expressions can be very powerful tools, they are not the most accessible (Write Once, Read Never is often the case for particularly complex ones) which makes the routine of reading other people's code to learn how it works a trickier one to approach. Sorry, I disagree on you again. =-] Folks that write regexps and do not optimize source code for reading (e.g.: using the 'x' option) are building a maintenance nightmare. Regexps are as powerfull as dynamite: you should handle them with care, or you will blow everything up soon or later. =-] -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Luis Campos de Carvalho Computer Science Student OCP DBA Oracle Unix Sys Admin =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Amazon.co.uk
It seems like you can now access Amazon.co.uk with a webservices interface similar to amazon.com I will probably be investigating this next week. If anyone wants to work with me on this, or just wants to find out how to do it after I investigate then give me a shout. Alex I think this is the URL http://associates.amazon.com/exec/panama/associates/ntg/browse/-/1067662/086-9393398-4972229 Available for java/perl/C++/web development in London, UK or nearby. Apache FOP, Cocoon, Turbine, Struts,XSL:FO, XML, Tomcat, JSP http://www.OWAL.co.uk/
Re: Learning regular expressions
I disagree. Regexps are quite well documented. There is even a manpage exclusively dedicated to it. =-] Though actually most of the docs used to be split between perlop and perlre, neither of which are friendly pieces of text. I believe this situation has ameliorated a little, but, certainly the docs were traditionally kinda sucky. I think that Regexps are hard to learn because the most part of the folks that aren't too much scared to learn it just lack the essential and unavoidable compiler theory where regexp lays its foundations. IMHO, its simply impossible learn good quality regexp use unless you have good regular grammars theory before. No, that's WRONG. Again, I can only give myself as an example, but, I had no compiler theory or regular grammars theory. Regular expressions MAKE SENSE - in (again) my humble experience, it tends to be people who started with C or somesuch language who have the most difficulty with them. Go figure. +Pete -- Much may be made of a Scotchman, if he be caught young. -- Samuel Johnson
Re: Amazon.co.uk
On Thu, 2003-03-13 at 18:38, Alex McLintock wrote: It seems like you can now access Amazon.co.uk with a webservices interface similar to amazon.com I will probably be investigating this next week. If anyone wants to work with me on this, or just wants to find out how to do it after I investigate then give me a shout. Alex I think this is the URL http://associates.amazon.com/exec/panama/associates/ntg/browse/-/1067662/086-9393398-4972229 There's a CPAN module opportunity there... -- Dave Hodgkinson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Magazines
* Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: [ apologies if this appears twice. i'm sure i remember typing it this morning, but there seems to be no evidence to support this ] I've got almost complete collections of the UK magazines Linux Format and Linux Magazine and most of the last 3 or 4 years of Linux Journal and Web Techniques (aka New Architect). I've decided that they take up too much space and I never use them as the useful articles are all on the web anyway. So, they'll all be off to the tip a week on Sunday. Alternatively they are free to anyone who wants to pick them up from my house before then. if nobody else wants them i might have be interested, however not before sunday - this would be so much simpler if you still drank as i could just bring a bottle of calvados round as payment and we could drink that sheesh, i have no idea how to arrange collection, so please give them away if its hassle. Greg -- *** *** *** Email address has changed to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Please *** *** update your email address book. *** *** *** Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.org.uk/~gem/ jabber://[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Perl 6 Apocalypse 6
On Thu, Mar 13, 2003 at 03:43:50PM +, Shevek wrote: My opinion on programming (this week) is that the modern generation of programmer has never used any system where commands are executed as you type them, and thus they have no concept of a sequence of instructions, and therefore they cannot program. and On Thu, Mar 13, 2003 at 04:59:49PM +, Dean wrote: I would have thought any of the Unix shells were a system where commands are executed as you type them, you have expressions, variables and instant feedback. I think that's the point: too many programmers have never seen a Unix shell ... and maybe only see a DOS prompt when things go wrong :-) Among them the whirl as you realise that rm -rf shouldn't be taking this long... Ah, that time-stopping, stomach-dropping, splicter-clenching moment :-) -- Chris Benson
Re: Perl 6 Apocalypse 6
Among them the whirl as you realise that rm -rf shouldn't be taking this long... Ah, that time-stopping, stomach-dropping, splicter-clenching moment :-) Right up there with the dual realization that not only did you just type kill 1 instead of kill %1, but that you're root, as well. Randy -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.rjray.org http://www.svsm.org Any spammers auto-extracting addresses from this message will definitely want to include [EMAIL PROTECTED] and [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Perl 6 Apocalypse 6
On Thu, Mar 13, 2003 at 03:59:52PM -0800, Randy J. Ray wrote: Ah, that time-stopping, stomach-dropping, splicter-clenching moment :-) Right up there with the dual realization that not only did you just type kill 1 instead of kill %1, but that you're root, as well. What, you're running on physical hardware? D'oh :-) I'm quite rapidly becoming a fan of User Mode Linux especially now that the Separate Kernel Address Space patch is out. Toys: http://user-mode-linux.sourceforge.net/uses.html http://user-mode-linux.sourceforge.net/skas.html http://uml.openconsultancy.com/paper.php Apart from some of the wacky network bridging business it's much simpler than I'd irrationally feared. Paul -- Paul Makepeace ... http://paulm.com/ What is movement? It is only for me to know and for you to wonder. -- http://paulm.com/toys/surrealism/
Re: Perl 6 Apocalypse 6
On Thu, 13 Mar 2003 15:59:52 -0800, you (Randy J. Ray [EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Among them the whirl as you realise that rm -rf shouldn't be taking this long... Ah, that time-stopping, stomach-dropping, splicter-clenching moment :-) Right up there with the dual realization that not only did you just type kill 1 instead of kill %1, but that you're root, as well. ... my excuse at such a moment is that I am lucky I only killed _one_, and not 2034 ;-) -- (Well, one should not joke with this in such time we have around us at this moment ...) -- mvh/Regards Kåre Olai Lindbach
Re: Perl 6 Apocalypse 6
Right up there with the dual realization that not only did you just type kill 1 instead of kill %1, but that you're root, as well. What, you're running on physical hardware? D'oh :-) I'm quite rapidly becoming a fan of User Mode Linux especially now that the Separate Kernel Address Space patch is out. Oh... this predates the first Linux release by about 4 years :-). Randy -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.rjray.org http://www.svsm.org Any spammers auto-extracting addresses from this message will definitely want to include [EMAIL PROTECTED] and [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Perl 6 Apocalypse 6
On Thu, 13 Mar 2003, Dean wrote: On Thu, Mar 13, 2003 at 03:43:50PM +, Shevek wrote: My opinion on programming (this week) is that the modern generation of programmer has never used any system where commands are executed as you type them, and thus they have no concept of a sequence of instructions, and therefore they cannot program. I would have thought any of the Unix shells were a system where commands are executed as you type them, you have expressions, variables and instant feedback. Among them the whirl as you realise that rm -rf shouldn't be taking this long... And the number of undergraduates who actually know how to operate even a Unix shell is approximately nil. S. -- Shevekhttp://www.anarres.org/ I am the Borg. http://design.anarres.org/
Re: Perl 6 Apocalypse 6
On Fri, 14 Mar 2003 00:21:49, Shevek [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: And the number of undergraduates who actually know how to operate even a Unix shell is approximately nil. fx: Chris disappears in a blink of contradiction Can we stop this stupid thread now? Undergrads - much like postgrads and people who didn't go to university at all - are a decidedly varied group of people, some of whom have been programming with Unix and Perl (and on this list!) for years, and don't appreciate the stereotyping. - Chris. -- $a=printf.net; Chris Ball | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | www.$a | finger: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Perl 6 Apocalypse 6
alex wrote: I then got bored and started programming it. I think my knowledge of Perl (native) is complete. I wonder if Damian would make such a claim... Most definitely not. Nor, I suspect would Larry. Perl is like quantum physics, or the opposite sex, or the films of David Lynch...if you think you understand them, then you almost certainly *don't*. ;-) Damian
Re: Perl 6 Apocalypse 6
Piers Cawley wrote: Now you're just being silly. I mean, where would they find a blender big enough??? You are a Very Bad Man. Why thank-you, sir! And I must certainly extend the same high compliment to you. grin Damian
Re: [OT] Magazines
* Greg McCarroll ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: * Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: [ apologies if this appears twice. i'm sure i remember typing it this morning, but there seems to be no evidence to support this ] I've got almost complete collections of the UK magazines Linux Format and Linux Magazine and most of the last 3 or 4 years of Linux Journal and Web Techniques (aka New Architect). I've decided that they take up too much space and I never use them as the useful articles are all on the web anyway. So, they'll all be off to the tip a week on Sunday. Alternatively they are free to anyone who wants to pick them up from my house before then. if nobody else wants them i might have be interested, however not before sunday - this would be so much simpler if you still drank as i could just bring a bottle of calvados round as payment and we could drink that sheesh, i have no idea how to arrange collection, so please give them away if its hassle. (sorry folks that should have been a private email) -- *** *** *** Email address has changed to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Please *** *** update your email address book. *** *** *** Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.org.uk/~gem/ jabber://[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Magazines
Greg == Greg McCarroll [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Greg (sorry folks that should have been a private email) Yeah, doesn't it suck when a list sets a reply-to? ... http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html Please fix this. -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 [EMAIL PROTECTED] URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/ Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!
