Re: back to the 80's
On Tue, Sep 16, 2003 at 09:27:46AM +0100, Iain Tatch wrote: There's a ZX81 in our server room at work. There was a shelf at BlackStar, underneath the shelf marked Cables, and beside the shelf marked Mice, marked ZX80s. And, yes, it was occupied... Tony
Re: Class:DBI problems...
On Tue, Sep 16, 2003 at 06:15:19PM +0100, Graham Seaman wrote: Failure while doing 'SELECT issue_id, title, number, current FROM tableSite::Issue/table WHERE current = ? ' with 'SearchSQL in Site::Issue' DBD::mysql::st execute failed: You have an error in your SQL syntax near 'tableSite::Issue/table WHERE current = '1' ' at line 2 at /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.6.1/Ima/DBI.pm line 735 grepping turns up nowhere at all that this table is being wrapped round class names, let alone where it should be stripped out... and I've got kind of lost trying to track this through the rather convoluted structure of Class::DBI and associated modules. There's nothing in Class::DBI or Ima::DBI that should be doing this. That said, Class::DBI 0.90 is rather old now, and how all this works has changed significantly in the last year ... My main guess would be that $class-table somehow is returning tableSite::Issue/table. Would that be true? Can anyone hazard a guess as to what might have happened here (this is Class:DBI 0.90 running on perl 5.6.1), or point me to a more appropriate forum? The Class::DBI list may be able to help you better ... Tony
Re: Module dependencies
On Mon, Sep 08, 2003 at 02:21:33PM +0100, Kate L Pugh wrote:
Well, I was planning to rely on Module::CPANTS. I'd prefer an extant
imperfect solution to an unimplementable perfect solution, or no solution.
I've used this in the past.
Obviously depends on Module::CPANTS being correct, but that's an SEP...
use Module::CPANTS;
my %seen;
my $data = Module::CPANTS-new-data;
print_requires('Class-DBI-0.93.tar.gz', 0);
sub print_requires {
my ($dist, $spc) = @_;
printf %s%s\n, x $spc, $dist;
print_requires($_, $spc + 2)
foreach grep !$seen{$_}++, @{ $data-{$dist}-{requires} };
}
Tony
Re: Dave and Religion
On Fri, Sep 05, 2003 at 04:34:16PM +0100, Jason Clifford wrote: Christianity is a derived form of Judaism. It teaches that there is one God and that's it. Not quite. It teaches that YHWH is the only *true* God, but the Hebrew Scriptures are full of stories of other gods. Tony
Re: Ob-buffy
On Wed, Sep 03, 2003 at 05:16:58PM +0200, Rafael Garcia-Suarez wrote: It's clear, when watching interviews of the scenarists or other members of the team, that Whedon had control over every aspect of the show. I know no other example of this on TV, except McGoohan and the Prisoner. David E. Kelly wrote almost every episode of all of his shows. I'm not sure how much control he had beyond that, but as he often had 3 of them running simultaneously, it's still quite an impressive feat... Tony
Re: insidious biometrics, identity crises
On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 11:02:39AM -0500, Elaine -HFB- Ashton wrote: *There is a big difference between a compulsory ID card and the usual *stuff you carry in your pockets which is voluntary. You're required to carry a drivers license when driving and could be fined and/or jailed if you don't. Not in the UK. Or at least not in NI, and I don't believe it to be different in the rest of the UK. You only have to be able to produce your driving license when asked, and you have up to 7 days to do so. You don't have to be carrying it. Tony
Re: Test Sweets?
On Tue, Aug 26, 2003 at 01:05:27PM +0100, Adam Spiers wrote:
I beg to differ! There's a substantial difference between Test::More
and Test::Unit. Test::Unit is best when you have a huge test suite to
run on a huge OO code base
I'd say Test::Class is best for thist :)
- ok($foo, 'bar') is easier to type than
$self-assert_str_equals('bar', $foo), although I think it's a
Good Thing that Test::Unit distinguishes between string/numeric
comparison.
With Test::Class you get the best of both worlds
Tony
Re: [OT] SQL woes
On Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 06:45:21AM -0700, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: MySQL is *just* now getting transactions. PostgreSQL has had some very good experts working on transactions for years now, and they're much further along on the trial-and-error curve that MySQL is just now starting. For values of *just* approaching 3 years... If you count the MySQL+SAP combo (not forgetting that SAP had an Oracle-compatability mode...) then that number gets a whole lot bigger. Tony
Re: [OT] SQL woes
On Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 03:30:48PM +0100, Andy Ford wrote: Well thanks for summing that up - it was an interesting read!! Currently I use mySQL only and don't really need transactional stuff. Now triggers I can see a need for!! Triggers at the db level will bite you hard at some point. If you're going to have multiple people building your application make sure you have VERY strict rules on adding triggers. Unchecked they lead to an unmaintainable mess quicker than most other things can ... Tony
Re: perl and marketing
On Mon, Aug 18, 2003 at 07:09:48AM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote: Does Perl need better PR? To what goal? Not having to justify the design decision of using Perl from first principles everytime in environments that do not currently use Perl. I think that's too broad a goal. The target audience is too wide, and have too many reasons to not use Perl to make this a viable target. Tony
Re: perl and marketing
On Sun, Aug 17, 2003 at 09:05:43AM +0100, Simon Wistow wrote: Does Perl need better PR? To what goal? Tony
Re: perl and marketing
On Sun, Aug 17, 2003 at 10:10:34AM +0100, Leon Brocard wrote: FWIW The Ponie press release got sent on the Canon PR newswire and targeted at various journalists and we still failed to get any major writeups. What sort of writeups were you expecting / hoping for? I'd say the number of people outside the Perl community to whom this story is interesting is miniscule... Tony
Re: [OT] Film Quiz
On Fri, Feb 21, 2003 at 03:01:21PM +, Ian Brayshaw wrote: she was the star of director Peter Jackson's first film (Heavenly Creatures), First film? Tony
Re: Class::DBI::Join
On Mon, Feb 17, 2003 at 12:37:17PM +, Kate L Pugh wrote: I sent this question to the Class::DBI list last week, but didn't get any replies so I thought I'd ask here too. Can anyone help me out? I think the problem is that Class::DBI::Join is a Schwern-ism, that no-one else knows much about, and he frequently disappears for months at a time ... My guess is that you don't actually want to be using Class::DBI::Join, but using a combination of the has_many-with-optional-mapping-method functionality of Class::DBI itself, with the has_many taking search arguments. Tony
Re: Class::DBI ponderings
On Fri, Feb 07, 2003 at 05:34:39PM +, Simon Batistoni wrote:
What do other people do? Just connect using a user with full
privileges, regardless of the script's task? I can't see huge security
disadvantages in this, particularly as such users are locked down to
only take connections from localhost. Still, opinions would be nice.
This is what we generally do ... but if you want to keep the two users:
2) If people do connect with different users dependent on task, how do
you keep your cached DB handles straight? I'd thought of subclassing
admin-related tasks into separate packages, so that they always get an
Object::Foo::Admin-created DB handle, but this seems unwieldy in the
extreme.
In your main Class::DBI subclass, which will presumably be the
superclass for each of your 'table' classes, you can override the
db_Main method.
Unfortunately, because of the way Ima::DBI just throws this method into
your namespace, you can't do this directly.
You can create another level of subclassing so that you can properly
override the method:
in file My/DBI.pm
package My::DBI::Base;
use base 'Class::DBI';
__PACKAGE__-set_db();
package My::DBI;
use base My::DBI::Base;
sub db_Main {
my $class = shift;
if ($class-different_privs) {
return Ima::DBI-connect_cached('other connect string');
}
return $class-SUPER::db_Main;
}
1;
Or, you can grab a copy of the method after it's been created, and mess
about with it:
in file My/DBI.pm
package My::DBI;
use base 'Class::DBI';
__PACKAGE__-set_db();
{
no warnings 'redefine';
*db_Orig = \db_Main;
*db_Mail = sub {
my $class = shift;
if ($class-different_privs) {
return Ima::DBI-connect_cached('other connect
string');
}
$class-db_Orig;
}
}
It's kinda tricky, and should really be a lot nicer, but it's fairly
flexible (we've used it to have lots of different databases with the
same schema, and the correct one gets picked depending on certain
circumstances (what user you're logged in as, which vhost you're using,
what the path name is, whatever)...
If you've any more questions, the Class::DBI mailing list has a few
people who've done things like this.
Thanks,
Tony
Re: Class::DBI ponderings
On Fri, Feb 07, 2003 at 08:00:07PM +, Shevek wrote: On reading the code, this is sufficient. Don't call set_db at all. This is pretty close to the architecture I used to use: Each class was responsible for providing an appropriate DB handle on demand. If you don't call set_db, and just use connect_cached, then much of what followed in Tony's mail may be simplified. yes, this is indeed true. I hadn't actually thought of that. I need to put together a good write-up on all the different approaches to this. Tony
Re: Run time packages or Making Classes
On Sat, Jan 18, 2003 at 02:07:06AM +, Shevek wrote: Sorry, rather tough shit. Class::DBI requires every class with which you have a relation on sight, ignores errors in require (and makes them inaccessible and indetectable to the user by performing further requires to overwrite UNIVERSAL::require::ERROR while leaving the failed modules in %INC), I'm in Boston at the minute with rather spotty connectivity, so I can't dig into this, but Class::DBI uses UNIVERSAL::require to do most of this, so I'd suggest sending Schwern patches or bug reports about that if it's doing the Wrong Thing. selects several copies of all your data and proceeds to make them inconsistent. Care to expand a bit more on this? I'm coming to the conclusion that Class::DBI is fine as long as you don't have any relations. This makes life boring. Lots of people use Class::DBI for lots of applications with relations just fine. YMMV. Thanks, Tony
Re: [JOB] Really?
On Sat, Jan 18, 2003 at 05:39:23PM +, Piers Cawley wrote: Dave Hodgkinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: http://www.cwjobs.co.uk/cw_br/JobDetails.asp?JobID=8520593 Has MySQL even been available for 5 years? Yes. BlackStar launched in March 1998, and was using MySQL. I think I first came across it in 1996 when building musicdatabase.com and found that msql really wasn't cutting it due to a single select locking everyone else until it had finished... Tony
Re: Web Database Applications in perl
On Fri, Dec 06, 2002 at 01:20:35PM +, Tim Sweetman wrote: One of the most common things I need to do is provide some sort of web Class::DBI? It's a good first step, especially when used with TT. But you'll still need a lot of glue to implement the actual CRUD interface. Not as much as writing it from scratch though. Class::DBI::FromCGI is particularly useful in this regard. Tony
Re: Web Database Applications in perl
On Sat, Dec 07, 2002 at 12:34:16PM +, Alex McLintock wrote: Are there any code examples for TT and Class::DBI::FromCGI apart from the perldoc? Not really. I keep meaning to put some together, but never really get around to it. I'll happily field questions on it all though. Tony
Re: re-animating regexes
On Thu, Nov 28, 2002 at 09:53:02AM -, Ivor Williams wrote: Another niggle: /me avoids $a and $b like the plague, as they have special meaning to sort. At a certain on-line video shop, there was once a very strange bug that took quite some time to track back to the use of $b for an instance of Shop::Basket (just as $c was Shop::Customer, $v was Shop::Video etc...) Tony
Re: Class::DBI trickery
On Tue, Nov 12, 2002 at 07:09:28PM +, Michael Styer wrote:
I've just been introduced to Class::DBI. While I like it lots in general,
it seems like it's missing one obvious featur
So what I wanted to be able to do is this:
my $survey = Survey-retrieve($survey_id);
$survey-add_question(\%question_data);
where the 'add_question' method is created automagically
Very interesting approach...
rather than having to do this:
my $survey = Survey-retrieve($survey_id);
my $question = Survey::Question-create(\%question_data);
$question-survey($survey);
Technically, if you were doing it this way, you should probably do:
my $survey = Survey-retrieve($survey_id);
my $qn = Survey::Question-create({ %question_data, survey = $survey });
as some databases might complain that you're violating the schema at the
initial create (as your foreign key is null until the next statement).
But I definitely like the first approach.
I don't like this because I have to hard-code the name of the child
class somewhere else besides the has_many initialization statement,
and that feels messy. It also just feels backwards.
I'd be interested as to why you think it feels backwards...
I've overridden 'has_many' with a version that does what I want, but my
question is, am I missing a trick? Is there a standard idiom for doing
things more or less the way I wanted to within the existing Class::DBI
framework?
I don't think so. Would you mind submitting a patch?
Thanks,
Tony
Re: Class::DBI trickery
On Wed, Nov 13, 2002 at 12:36:54PM +, Michael Styer wrote: I'd be interested as to why you think it feels backwards... Well, if I have a parent object which has a collection of child objects of some class (or collections of objects of different classes), it seems like the parent should know what it has to do to add a child to (one of) its collection(s), as long as you give it the right data for the new child object. As it is, the parent can retrive objects it contains but can't add more, so the programmer has to know what class the child objects are in order to add more of them. Gotcha. That makes perfect sense! :) I don't think so. Would you mind submitting a patch? Sure. I'll send it off-list unless anyone else is interested. Great. While we're on the subject of Class::DBI, I'm getting deep recursion in Class::DBI::DESTROY. It's the call to $self-id at line 501 that seems to set it off, but if I take out my triggers it works. Probably something I'm doing wrong and I've got the perl debugger on the task, but if anyone has any suggestions about where to look I'd love to hear them. First suggestion is to update to 0.90_05 (available from www.class-dbi.com), which in the next day or two is going to become 0.90. It gives better error messages for some deep recursion cases that might help you track the problem better... If that doesn't help, then feel free to send me your code off-list (or to the CDBI mailing list), and I'll see if I can spot anything. Thanks, Tony
Re: (no subject)
On Fri, Nov 08, 2002 at 05:54:32PM +, Richard Clamp wrote: array1 eq array2 array1 = qw( foo bar ); array2 = qw( foob ar ); They're not big, but they are still wrong :) Not to defend the original, but these aren't equal when stringified ... Not without setting $ to or other such hackery. Tony
Re: mysql autoincs
On Mon, Jul 15, 2002 at 04:07:53PM +0100, Roger Burton West wrote: On or about Mon, Jul 15, 2002 at 04:03:41PM +0100, Mark Fowler typed: Without starting a massive database war, is there anyway to get mysql to forget about autoincremented values. IME the way MySQL generates an auto-increment value is to SELECT MAX(value)+1. So deleting the values should be enough. This is only true for reasonably old versions of MySQL. More recent versions 'remember' the last version used to avoid this sort of scenario: Insert row: ID 1 Insert row: ID 2 Delete row 2 Insert row: ID 2 In recent versions the final row gets ID 3. The only way to reset it (short of dropping and recreating the table) is to do a 'DELETE FROM table', which completely cleans it out, and resets the ID. Tony
Re: [job] same as before
On Wed, May 29, 2002 at 10:48:13AM +0100, perl wrote: Opportunity to join this market leader through their bust World Cup period. Is this *really* what it says? ;) Tony
Re: [REVIEW] Creation - Life and how to make it by Steve Grand
On Sun, May 26, 2002 at 06:12:47AM -0700, Paul Makepeace wrote: In a typical large LDAP directory there will be a lot of information that the end user does not have access to (passwords, or info about the physical location of company documents). Or data they access to but cannot change (e.g. who there manager is). Even having a subset of data being spread around (name, dept, tel, fax, email) still doesn't get around this problem, AFAICS. I'm not sure why the subset doesn't get around it? Information that is tightly controlled will probably need a centralised point that controls that access. Everything else can be spread. Or, I suppose you could build the ACL stuff into the distributed server in some way - depends on just how secure you need to be? Additionally there is of course the standard data integrity issue, either malicious or accidental interference. *nod*. Definitely an issue, but doesn't seem to be insurmountable. In fact the fact that the information is distributed means that some of the problems there are lessened. Updates (replication): this isn't a nicely solved problem with today's centralised LDAP stores. Multi-master updates are hard. Freenet is struggling with the updates idea and still there is essentially no search capability (last I checked, which was a while ago). Agreed. I don't think any of this is trivial, by any means. But I also don't think it's completely unsolvable. Current systems aren't perfect either, by a long way. But I think a lot of stuff is going to happen in this area. It's not a panacea, and there's lots of things that won't lend itself to it. But some things will, and some of them will probably be easier than we expect. In Northern Ireland, at least, 90% of businesses have fewer than 20 staff. The sorts of systems that they need are very different from those needed by organisations with 20,000 staff. A lot of the traditional computing models are just too expensive for them. If people can write relatively simple applications that do some of these things in a distributed way, so that they don't really need to invest servers etc, I'd say there'd be quite a lot of interest. Tony
Re: [REVIEW] Creation - Life and how to make it by Steve Grand
On Sat, May 25, 2002 at 05:44:21PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote: What do they need this power for? I agree its a shame that its not being used, but what is the average company going to do with it? Sorry If I'm being thick, but I just can't think of anything that an average company (i'm ignoring scientific companies and major financial organisations) can parallelise efficiently across lots of PCs. They don't need to be parallelising things. Just doing things on the desktop that would usually need a server. Hmm, I'm not sure the web is what I'd traditionally think of as a C/S model, ymmv. I mean this merely to the extent that the client is reasonably dumb and the 'heavy lifting' is being done somewhere on a server. And that your data isn't really available to you other than in the way that the server chooses. (Your average financial info site, for example, doesn't allow you to play with your share portfolio in ways that they haven't programmed for you.) Are you thinking about something like a supermarket site sending lots of product information in one go and then letting the customer browse using Javascript on their local machine? Possibly. As an example, take DigiGuide. You can access their television listings either through a web interface, or through software which downloads the latest info daily, and lets you play with it on your local machine. I *much* prefer the software version, mostly because the web version is just too slow, but also because the interface is much better. But, one of the reasons the interface is better, is that until recently doing a decent interface in the browser was practically impossible. As browser-based applications become more realistic, this means that someone like DigiGuide can stop splitting their development effort and work on one interface, which can either be run off their server, using their copy of the data, or of your own desktop server, with your downloaded copy of the data. I believe there are many more places where this sort of thing will start to happen, or become more common / practical / useful / whatever. Never underestimate the power of taking some old technology and adding a liberal dose of pseudo technical marketting bullshit and this isn't a bad thing in my book. *grin* Tony
Re: [REVIEW] Creation - Life and how to make it by Steve Grand
On Fri, May 24, 2002 at 10:39:53PM +0100, Chris Ball wrote: It sounds like the model you're proposing is centralised-with-caching, rather than p2p. In the short/medium term, absolutely. AS I said in the original: My personal take is that we'll start seeing more and more web-based applications move, at least partially, to the desktop, co-ordinating initially with centralised servers, but then gradually moving to a purer 'P2P' type set-up. For most things, I see this happening as an intermediate stage. Most desktop machines spend most of their time (even when being used) doing next to nothing. Organisations have a huge amount of potential processing power on the desktop, but aren't using it. That's not going to be acceptable for much longer. And attempts to move back to dumber terminals have mostly failed. Rather than fighting Moore's Law - live with it. More and more work will be pushed back to the desktop. This was the trend in computing for a long time. Until the web explosion pushed everything back to a client/server model again. Even your average commercial web site doesn't take full advantage yet of the power in most of the recent browsers, that would allow so much more to be achieved on the client before needing to send another request back to the server. As people start discovering what can be done with this, I think we'll start to see quite a major reduction in the number of round-trip requests needed to achieve many web-based tasks. Which is good for everyone (except maybe the bandwidth companies!). Less load on the server is good. Less waiting on the part of the user. I was in Boston last week, using a 50k dial-up. I've been so used to big corporate pipes that I'd forgotten how fundamentally slow the internet really is. Also, who keeps track of whether the data is up to date? If my client machine is asking one of the new desktop servers for a contact record, does the desktop server then go back and check hashes against the main server? Does it return old information? Dunno. That's an implementation issue :) I don't really know enough about that sort of stuff, but I don't believe that you need to be constantly checking with a central server. Even if it takes a few hours (days?) for the information to reliably make its way around the network, I don't think that's unworkable - not for an address book anyway. Isn't this all just adding latency to the client-server model without really taking away any centralisation or adding any benefits? At the very least it a) makes querying faster - maybe not that important in this instance, but this was only an example, after all b) reduces reliance on a server being constantly up - probably more important If it can make it the whole way to having no central server, then you've of course got the other major benefit of not needing a server... Tony
Re: [REVIEW] Creation - Life and how to make it by Steve Grand
On Fri, May 24, 2002 at 01:50:38PM +0100, Simon Wistow wrote: Customers who liked this book may also like Emergence by Stephen Johnson. Not that I've read it yet but he's done lots of articles for Wired and Salon. Like this one .. He did a keynote at the O'Reilly Emerging Technology Conference last week, based roughly on the book. It almost piqued my interest enough to buy the book, but not quite enough. If I'd noticed it in a Barnes and Noble I may have sat their for an hour or two and read it though... Tony
Re: [REVIEW] Creation - Life and how to make it by Steve Grand
On Fri, May 24, 2002 at 04:53:06PM +0100, Leon Brocard wrote: Tony Bowden sent the following bits through the ether: He did a keynote at the O'Reilly Emerging Technology Conference last week, based roughly on the book. Did you go? Yes. Was it an interesting conference? Yes. Is p2p the future? No. It's the present :) My personal take is that we'll start seeing more and more web-based applications move, at least partially, to the desktop, co-ordinating initially with centralised servers, but then gradually moving to a purer 'P2P' type set-up. As an example, think of a web-based corporate 'address book' application. Currently anyone looking up an address would load a page of a central web server. But it's relatively simple to have that move to each employee's PC (which may well be more powerful than the server), at least for querying - but still as a web-based application. For updates, for now it would probably still submit to a central database, which would then get sent out to the individual PCs. But it wouldn't be too difficult to have this percolate in a P2P manner, removing the need for the centralised server altogether. There's obviously a lot of problems in making something like this really work in a large organisation, but they're mostly not 'pure' technology issues at this point. I think that most of this stuff will follow the maxim that people are massively over-estimating the short-term effects, but massively under-estimating the long-term effects. I looked at some of the presentations and they seemed quite interesting: http://conferences.oreillynet.com/pub/w/18/presentations.html There were a lot of interesting presentations. I've only just got back, as I was in Boston afterwards, so I haven't gotten around to writing them up yet, but as I do they'll appear on my weblog: http://www.tmtm.com/insanity Tony
Re: [REVIEW] Creation - Life and how to make it by Steve Grand
On Fri, May 24, 2002 at 06:23:41PM +0100, Chris Ball wrote: Tony As an example, think of a web-based corporate 'address book' Tony application. ... it's relatively Tony simple to have that move to each employee's PC (which may well Tony be more powerful than the server), at least for querying - but Tony still as a web-based application. But, it's not. That's a potentially huge amount of data; people aren't going to want to transfer that data to every machine they might want to use, they're going to want a nice, central, authoritative LDAP server to talk to. They don't have to transfer it to every machine. Their sys-admin can have the initial version set up on their machine. If they need to use a machine that doesn't have it installed, then it can ask the server - or any of the many desktop servers that now exist. And, it could locally cache all the information that it retrieves, so that it gradually builds up the information that it needs. There's lots of talk of making decentralised search engines, too, which I also don't see the point of. I also don't see the point of these. I like the idea of p2p a lot, but there are so many scenarios in which it cripples the service it's trying to decentralise.. I agree completely. I just don't think an address book is one of them... Tony
Re: Out of Memory!
On Fri, May 10, 2002 at 02:35:40PM +0100, Mark Fowler wrote:
I can't see what it is (and I've looked about, checked for obvious things)
localising an element of a tied hash leaks in all perls other than
blead... various things do this behind the scenes, such as DBI ... I ran
into this with Class::DBI where it did a local $sth-{TAINT} = 0
One to look out for ...
Tony
Re: The Perl Conference
On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 07:49:08AM -0700, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: Tony : I thought the theme was doing more with less. This would have Tony : interested me. This sort of stuff doesn't... Right. What does that *mean* to *you*? What session titles would you have said damn, I really gotta convince my boss to let me go this year? Themes are for wimps. Let's get practical here. If themes are for wimps, why bother having them? I would have liked to have seen things being divided into a few areas, all interlinked, but subtly different enough for a skilled conference organiser to categorise things into :) Doing More With Less Money The obvious one for an Open Source conference. What are the open source equivalents to big dollar approaches. Some of this exists in the conference (an overview of the perl content management systems etc), but I'd have expected more (I'm surprised there isn't something on RT, with its recent introduction as the bug-reporting arm of CPAN). Doing More With Less Skill (or some more 'politically correct' version of this that wouldn't have made people think that attending was the equivalent of being seen with a shelf full of ... For Dummies books.) A lot of modules on CPAN have quite complex and arcane interfaces which provide you a lot of power, as long as you're happy with closures and callbacks and anonymous data structures/subroutines etc, when actually quite a lot of perl programmers are frightened even of references. Recently however quite a few people have been writing ::Simple modules aimed at providing a large subset of the functionality wrapped in an easy interface. I'd have liked to have seen a few talks on this sort of approach, possibly with a BOF for people who are interested in not just providing the sorts of Power Tools that let other developers do amazing things, but providing a nice learning curve into them. (This doesn't have to just be aimed at beginners: Damian could easily have done a bit on Filter::Simple and Attribute::Handlers which took exactly the same approach at a more advanced level...) Doing More With Less Hassle Even advanced and experienced Perl programmers spend a lot of time doing monotonous tasks again and again. Joel Spolksy explained in a recent article[1] why he was moving Fog Creek gradually to .NET. One of the reasons he gave was that: All the grungy stuff that takes 75% of the time creating web applications with ASP (such as form validation and error reporting) becomes trivial. ASP.NET is as big a jump in productivity over ASP as Java is to C. What are the Perl equivalents of this? Doing More With Less Time One of the things I've found when building applications (usually web-based, but not always), is that most of the heavy lifting has been done before, and released to CPAN for me, saving me huge amounts of time. I still have to write a lot of glue code though, tying all these things together. And I know that lots of people have probably written almost identical (but probably much better) glue before me. I'd have liked to have seen some people talking about how they tie lots of packages together: perhaps a How to Build a $20,000 website in an afternoon session - my version would have been on how to tie Class::DBI, Template::Toolkit, CGI::Untaint, Class::DBI::FromCGI, Date::Simple and Spreadsheet::ParseExcelSimple together to provide a database-backed website based on information supplied by a client in Excel files. But I'd like hear other people's eqivalents. Doing More With Less Power I don't really mean the political power question here (My company is moving most of its development to Java / C# / whatever. I *know* I can get work done ten times faster in Perl - what should I do), although that could be interesting too. Instead, I'm talking about things like The Fractional Horsepower Webserver[2]. Jon Udell presented a wonderful paper[3] at TPC 2 in 1998, on a desktop HTTP server that ran a distributed contact manager application. 4 years on, with desktop servers on the rise again, and peer to peer much more commonplace, what's happening in this area? For years the Perl world has been great at writing (unix) server based applications, but relatively poor at writing (windows-based) desktop applications. As the two continue to coalesce what great Perl-based desktop applications are being written using a local web-browser as their front end? These are the sorts of things that would interest me, and IMO, meet the theme. Tony [1] http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/Our.NetStrategy.html [2] http://davenet.userland.com/1997/09/14/FractionalHorsepowerHTTPSe [3] http://udell.roninhouse.com/download/dhttp.html -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095 [EMAIL PROTECTED] URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/ Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc. See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!
Re: The Perl Conference
On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 06:09:37AM -0700, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: Conference in San Diego this July, it moght help to know that the schedule has been published. Tony Hmmm. There's next to nothing there that I would want to hear :( Well, what *would* you have wanted to hear? Did you even make suggestions to people around you? Did you even _read_ the rest of my message? Or just decide to ignore it? I said: : I thought the theme was doing more with less. This would have : interested me. This sort of stuff doesn't... Tony
Re: Going Too Far
On Mon, Mar 18, 2002 at 06:56:46AM +, Dave Cross wrote: Oops. I've pissed of Liz Castro again. She really objects to my new Amazon review of her book - http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0201735687 This would be the review that says It's certainly the best of the beginners Perl and CGI boks out there at the moment ? to the fact that I've been directing people to other books on her web site, e.g. http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?read=7739. To a question that's asking about learning PERL in general? Rather than to do with CGI, in a context that implies (given the other reviews on Amazon) that they're wanting to learn Perl so they can use the concepts in her book? She objects so much, in fact that she's asked me not to post to her web site Sounds like quite an overreaction to me ... Tony
Re: language extensions
On Fri, Mar 01, 2002 at 03:08:32PM +, Simon Wistow wrote: Has *anybody* written a Source Filter that does anything useful Yada::Yada::Yada? Tony
Re: Bolloxia
On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 01:37:17PM +, Simon Wistow wrote: That's just an indication of ignorance. See also Pret a Porter - Ready to Wear. cf. The Madness of King George Tony
Re: User Input at speed
On Wed, Feb 13, 2002 at 05:36:33PM -, Ivor Williams wrote: I am also looking to track down a contrasty PC keyboard - black keys labelled in white, or white keys labelled in black (as opposed to dark brown keys labelled in light brown). Any ideas? The keyboard that came with my Dell Dimension 8100 was black keys labelled in white... (and black mouse, and black monitor etc.) I don't know if they sell them on their own ... Tony -- -- Tony Bowden | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.tmtm.com/ may my mind stroll about hungry and fearless and thirsty and supple --
Re: User Input at speed
On Thu, Feb 14, 2002 at 10:40:53AM +0100, Newton, Philip wrote: I don't know anyone, either. I once came across the web site of someone who wrote some software I had used, and he said he used Dvorak keyboards. But I don't remember who it was. No-one I know personally uses a Dvorak keyboard, to my knowledge. ISTR that Sean M Burke (author of all sorts of CPAN stuff) uses Dvorak... But I may confusing him with someone else... Tony -- -- Tony Bowden | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.tmtm.com/ every tool is a weapon - if you hold it right --
Re: Open Certification
On Sat, Jan 26, 2002 at 09:57:22PM -0800, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: Alex == Alex Page [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Alex How can the education and certification model of the Open University Alex be applied to Perl? It can't. See http://www.perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=141518. I fail to see what that node has to do with the question. Or perhaps you've missed what the Open University is about? Tony -- -- Tony Bowden | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.tmtm.com/ The problem is communication. Too much communication. --
Re: Advocacy link fest
On Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 12:23:10PM -0800, Paul Makepeace wrote: On Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 02:28:01PM +, Chris Carline wrote: The structure of the HTML page is also extremely important in how searched-for words are weighted in the engine - namely, if search terms appear in titles and headers, or in bold, or in a big font, near the top of a page, then google is significantly more likely to favour Can you provide some info to back up these claims about the operation of Google? http://www-db.stanford.edu/~backrub/google.html provides a lot of info about how the original Google scored things. Info about things like font-size, capitalisation, position in document etc live down at 4.2.5.. I have no idea how much of this is still in use... Tony -- -- Tony Bowden | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.tmtm.com/ all history is too small for even me; for me and you,exceedingly too small --
Re: English language [was call LEVEL oddness]
On Tue, Jan 22, 2002 at 05:43:08PM -, Ivor Williams wrote: Time flies like an arrow can parsed in 5 different ways. OK ... I get 4 ... what am I missing? Tony -- -- Tony Bowden | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.tmtm.com/ And if you need my attention Be bizarre --
Re: Damian in Belfast
On Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 02:05:24AM +, Russell Matbouli wrote: On Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 11:46:32PM +, David Cantrell wrote: And if any of the Belfast.pm crowd have suggestions for hotels, we'd be grateful for your advice. As for hotels, I guess the main ones would be the Europa, Dukes and the Hilton, but I can't give reviews as I've never had to stay in a hotel in Belfast... If no-one else suggests places, I can look in the yellow pages and you can call around for prices. You should stay in the Europa if you like being able to tell people you stayed in the most bombed hotel in Europe. (You should be perfectly safe, it hasn't been bombed for a few weeks now ...) Jury's Inn is fairly central, and fairly decent[1] in a pretty basic way. It's about 70 quid per room. The Hilton ranges from a bit more than that, up to about twice that. The Europa would be at the higher end of that. Dukes is more a student[2] drinking place, so I don't know what the accomodation is like. If you're looking at the University area then Renshaws a few doors down is fine too. Although both will suffer from the 'bad disco late at night' problem. In terms of locale, anywhere within the downtown or university area is pretty central. Belfast isn't really that big a place... Tony [1] Disclaimer: I've never stayed in the one in Belfast, but the others I've stayed in have been fine. [2] Not the Laverys type of student. The type who doesn't mind drinking with old men. Although not really the Fly[3] type of old men. More the old men who want to pretend they're still young, or something. [3] Before it went all poncy. Back when it had jazz on a saturday afternoon and a yard of ale contest and a monkey and stuff.
Re: JOB: Mod_perl
On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 09:41:01AM +, Jonathan Peterson wrote: Funnily enough I think experience counts for a lot in computer jobs. It depends on what that experience is. And I'm not convinced that after a couple of years, just having experience of a certain thing is that relevant. To pick an obviously facetious example, would you rather employ Matt Wright[1], with his many years of Perl experience, or someone with 1 year of Perl who has a solid background in other languages and has already shown a great aptitude for Perl? Also, if the job is not 100% hands on, experience counts for alot. 6 years is 50% more experience than 4 years, so they are that much more likely to have experience dealing with difficult customers, or having to work with a skeptical customer IT department, or having to comply with customer's silly security regulations. Then ask for for experience in those things specifically. Not for something as bland as years experience in the industry. Tony [1] This character is a composite. No similarly to any living blah blah blah. -- -- Tony Bowden | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.tmtm.com/ Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand --
Re: JOB: Mod_perl
On Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 01:38:43AM +, Steve Campbell wrote: 6 or more years in the internet industry?? Definitely not impossible, as I've been beneficially employed by the Internet since '95, but it's just quite am impressive thing to require... You guys confusing the WWW for the Internet? I started working on Internet applications shortly before Mosaic came out in 1993... There wasn't much of an internet industry then, though. And the number of people employed by it was very small... Tony -- -- Tony Bowden | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.tmtm.com/ Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand --
Re: JOB: Mod_perl
On Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 05:00:35AM -0500, Andy Williams wrote: Role: SOFTWARE DEVELOPER / MOD_PERL / LINUX / MYSQL Skills required: ... 6+ years experience as a software developer in the internet industry. 6 or more years in the internet industry?? Tony -- -- Tony Bowden | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.tmtm.com/ every tool is a weapon - if you hold it right --
Re: Academics / Real World
On Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 01:28:04PM +, robin szemeti wrote: no .. he's missed the point. he defines a langauge as 'powerful' based on what it can do .. closures, continuations, macros etc .. thats bollox a closure is worth feck all to customers ... Perl::DBI *is* worth something. .. continuations wont help you get rapidly to market Template::Toolkit will ... I'm not so sure that he doesn't get that. If you read the rest of the stuff on his site, he talks quite a lot about the importance of good libraries. (He even mentions Perl explicitly in this context, although that's more to do with string handling than CPAN ...) so in a way he's right .. it doesn't matter what language you write in so long as it has good support ... and does lisp have that? .. not to the extent that Perl and Java do .. in the early days everyone wrote everything from scratch .. so using Lisp was no disadvantage .. today I can do in ten minutes with CPAN what will take a LIsp guy days or weeks working from scratch .. thats power for you. That's not what he's saying though. http://www.paulgraham.com/progbot.html says When you write two or more programs, many of the utilities you wrote for the first program will also be useful in the succeeding ones. Once you've acquired a large substrate of utilities, writing a new program can take only a fraction of the effort it would require if you had to start with raw Lisp. Yes, I believe that CPAN is Perl's 'killer app', and I love that I can do lots of really complex things really trivially using it, but I think you should read more of the stuff on http://www.paulgraham.com ... I quite like a lot of his ideas for Arc. Tony -- -- Tony Bowden | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.tmtm.com/ make me laugh make me cry enrage me don't try to disengage me --
Re: JOB: Mod_perl
On Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 07:17:57PM +, Steve Mynott wrote: I really can't see any reason at all why it would be a requirement. My guess is the potential employer was stung by a poor previous employee who promised much and delivered little and they reacted by overspecing the requirements (this is probably driven by one particular person at the company). I can understand that in terms of adding more skills, but adding length of experience is strange. What would someone with 6 years experience have over someone with 5? Or 4? Tony -- -- Tony Bowden | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.tmtm.com/ The Internet, that thing is still around? --
Re: Next meetings
On Wed, Dec 19, 2001 at 12:11:03PM +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Marty Pauley [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'd love to be there, but I have to go to the Perl Whirl instead :-) You bastard! You'll have a great time. I did. Yeah, we know. We went to ScriptScape. ;) Tony -- -- Tony Bowden | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.tmtm.com/ the woods are lovely, dark, and deep, but I have promises to keep --
Re: Another Good Meeting
On Mon, Nov 19, 2001 at 01:19:06PM +0100, Newton, Philip wrote: Probably the last, judging by the fact that Damian, dha, Marcel, paulm, and I are members (anyone else? Lemme see... cdevers, Skud(?), Randal(? The Belfast.pm contingent ... Tony -- -- Tony Bowden | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.tmtm.com/ If I'm feigning coherence and calmness Laugh with me --
Re: DaemonNews, PerlMonth and TPJ
On Tue, Nov 13, 2001 at 10:45:04PM -, Dean S Wilson wrote: Five or six bits of fresh content each month may sound a bit stiff (Wussies ;)), and in a group the size of London PM it'll be hard keeping the pace up but if we could get a couple of months worth done and out in the wild why not throw it out to the other PM groups, a single article from each of the big groups each month would make at least a decent read. I'd say Belfast.pm will be in support of this. If not I'll be in support as part of London.pm instead ;) Linking to all the perl-type articles that appear other places is a good plan as well... Tony -- -- Tony Bowden | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.tmtm.com/ all history is too small for even me; for me and you,exceedingly too small --
Re: .emacs help
On Tue, Oct 30, 2001 at 12:28:10PM +, Mark Fowler wrote: Test::Simple++ What if it's someone elses tests? Send them a patch? Tony -- -- Tony Bowden | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.tmtm.com/ The Internet, that thing is still around? --
Re: .emacs help
On Tue, Oct 30, 2001 at 01:08:40PM -, Wilson, Andrew (Belfast) wrote: I totally agree with using Test::Simple or Test::More but it will take much longer to change the file to using Test::Simple purely becase you're going to have to think up names for at least 23 tests before you find the one you're looking for. Not at all. You 'binary search' it ;) Name one test near where you think the problem is. Run. Name another nearer. Repeat. Rinse. Tony -- -- Tony Bowden | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.tmtm.com/ It can flash fry a buffalo in 40 seconds / 40 seconds?! I want it now! --
Disable Word/Excel Macros from Perl?
A job I'll probably have to do in a few weeks requires users to be able to upload a Word document (or possibly Excel) via a web-server, and other registered users of the site will then be able to download it. However, people are concened about the potentiatl of viruses etc. One solution mooted is that it may be possible, from within Perl, to reach into the document, and disable any macros. Does anyone know if this is possible (ideally easy!)? Or have any better ideas? That preferably don't involve using a Windows machine to do this... Thanks, Tony -- -- Tony Bowden | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.tmtm.com/ make me laugh make me cry enrage me don't try to disengage me --
Re: Disable Word/Excel Macros from Perl?
On Mon, Oct 29, 2001 at 12:05:41PM +, Mark Fowler wrote: I know the Spreadsheet::ReadExcel and Spreadsheet::WriteExcel modules work really well. You could read in the entire document and write it out again, stripping out macros and suchlike as you go. I know these modules well *grin* Lot of work though, Not with Spreadsheet::ParseExcel::Simple and Spreadsheet::WriteExcel::Simple ;) and I'll bet you'll lose some formatting as you go. Yes. This is the major problem. And dates. They're quite nasty, too. However, I'd expect most of the documents to be Word rather than Excel... Tony
Re: Disable Word/Excel Macros from Perl?
On Mon, Oct 29, 2001 at 01:04:30PM +, Simon Wilcox wrote: A different approach would be to virus scan the documents and quarantine infected ones. You could try Covalent's anti virus plugin for Apache. It has perl bindings. http://www.covalent.com/products/antivirus/ Ooooh. Nice. [2] Although, slightly worryingly, the product page says their latest dat file is dated May 02 2001, which is really way too old. Agreed ... Although the page you listed above lists the last update as Sept 18, 2001. Which still seems too old ... Tony -- -- Tony Bowden | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.tmtm.com/ I see they have the Internet on computers now --
Re: Rant: Working in a vacuum
On Sun, Oct 28, 2001 at 07:42:43PM +, Simon Batistoni wrote: How about a pod section called something like CONTACT or FEEDBACK? Then authors could indicate on an individual basis how much or how little they wanted to hear. This would still leave room for Mark's basic accounting idea, but would be more flexible in the case of authors like Marcel, who often want specific feedback on how their wild and wonderful innovations are finding use in the real world. I like this. I'm going to start adding something like this to all my modules. Tony -- -- Tony Bowden | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.tmtm.com/ The problem is communication. Too much communication. --
Re: keyboards
On Fri, Oct 26, 2001 at 06:05:30PM +0100, Stray Toaster wrote: Y'see, I would have said the 'hoke' was spelt 'hoak', to rhyme with 'soak', and 'boak', aother great word. Tho looking at them, I think 'hoke', and, by implication, 'boke' are better spellings. Tho not sure if anyone over the age of 12 actually uses 'boke'. I would definitely have used 'boke' rather than 'boak'. 'Boakin yer guts out' just doens't look right... Tony -- -- Tony Bowden | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.tmtm.com/ all history is too small for even me; for me and you,exceedingly too small --
Re: Birthdays (was Re: sunday / saff london)
On Fri, Oct 26, 2001 at 03:56:29PM -0700, Paul Makepeace wrote: If you went in in person and couldn't show *any* id (credit card, ATM, library card, etc, etc) that could corroborate your impostering nature I doubt you'd get far either. I arrived in London once and realised I'd left my wallet in my car in the car-park of the airport in Belfast, leaving me with no money and no ID. So, I got on the Heathrow Express, and explained to the bemused ticket people (after leaving the station, of course) that no, I had not ticket, and no, I had no money, and no, I had no identification. (Well, it's not like they were going to stop the train and throw me off!) They eventually just took my details, said they'd mail me a bill, and never did. Then, at Paddington, I went into a Midland Bank, and explained what had happened, and they gave me a phone to call First Direct, clear security the normal way, and arrange for money to be made available to me over the counter at that branch. I was impressed at how easy it was. It certainly made my day easier. Tony
Re: Birthdays (was Re: sunday / saff london)
On Sat, Oct 27, 2001 at 04:22:06PM -0700, Paul Makepeace wrote: Then, at Paddington, I went into a Midland Bank, and explained what had happened, and they gave me a phone to call First Direct, clear security the normal way, and arrange for money to be made available to me over the counter at that branch. What did you tell them? I'm struggling to imagine they handed over money just by you giving them your name. I bank with First Direct normally, which is a telephone bank. So I was able to go through the normal phone banking security for them to identify me. Letters from password, mother's maiden name, memorable date / address etc... Tony -- -- Tony Bowden | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.tmtm.com/ The Internet, that thing is still around? --
Re: keyboards
On Thu, Oct 25, 2001 at 08:44:01PM +0100, Robert Shiels wrote: I've got a fancy laser one on this computer, and it's quite nice really, but I wouldn't recommend it for gaming [1]. Yes - it is pretty clean, even after several months daily use. I don't really 'game' anyway. Not in the 'gaming' sense. I find Freecell strangely addictive, and it took me ages to finish The Machine level for Wilkanoid (where did the Wilkanoid site go, anyway, and where can I get more levels!?!) ... but I doubt these are the kinds of games for which a fancy mouse would be an issue. Haven't seen the word hoke for ages, excellent, and yes, that's the method I use. 'Hoke' is a great word. I didn't think anything of it when I wrote it. Now I'm pondering its widespreadness. It's one of those words that if pushed I might have thought was an Ulsterism. But I don't really know ... I'll leave it to the Intellectually Corrupt Marc to rant at this point about other great words from Norn Iron. Tony -- -- Tony Bowden | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.tmtm.com/ si me asesinan, resucitare en el alma del pueblo --
Re: one for dave (new module)
On Tue, Oct 23, 2001 at 03:15:32PM +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: in my experience and I'm sure others will disagree[1], Makefile.PL files are a bit like sendmail.cf files, you do one once and you copy it from project/server to project/server. apart from of course i'd rather rewrite a Makefile.PL from scratch than gnaw off my right testicle ;-) I've found the best approach is to get h2xs to write one for you, and then cut and paste all the actually useful stuff from the last makefile.pl you wrote. Template Toolkit is your friend for this. Tony -- -- Tony Bowden | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.tmtm.com/ the woods are lovely, dark, and deep, but I have promises to keep --
Re: My First Module
On Sun, Sep 30, 2001 at 12:14:47PM +0100, Jonathan Stowe wrote: There is also now a handy web interface to this on pause.perl.org - it still mails to [EMAIL PROTECTED] but it formats it correctly and you dont have to remember all the different options for the various columns in the DLSO or whatever. It will still probably get ignored, however... Tony
Re: Film Recommendatio : A Knight's Tale
On Mon, Sep 24, 2001 at 05:11:03PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote: American High School Drama Films-ish: The Breakfast Club, Pretty in Pink, Ferris Bueller, etc. Unless this is actually John Hughes American High School Drama you really need to add Heathers ... Roman Night Film-ish: Spartacus, Gladiator, etc. Life of Brian? Tony -- -- Tony Bowden | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.tmtm.com/ si me asesinan, resucitare en el alma del pueblo --
Re: Friday Morning Fun
On Fri, Sep 21, 2001 at 03:16:53AM -0700, Dave Cross wrote: $i=1,2; I'm thinking I might include it as a question the next time I'm asked to to a Perl interview :) I'm not sure it tells you very much at an interview. Knowledge of arcane points of syntax doesn't really tell you very much about programming skill ... Tony -- -- Tony Bowden | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.tmtm.com/ if more people were screaming then I could relax --
Re: tv
On Tue, Sep 18, 2001 at 04:47:43PM +0100, Jonathan Peterson wrote: Now that unmissabletv.com has gone away, how do I get all the terrestrial tv listings in one place on the web? Suggestions on the back of an email... I'm quite fond of digiguide.co.uk myself. Web interface or Windows download... lets you make lots of nice customisable searches to highlight programmes for you that you might otherwise miss... Tony -- -- Tony Bowden | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.tmtm.com/ And if you need my attention Be bizarre --
Re: The best film of all time?
On Mon, Sep 17, 2001 at 10:45:37PM +0100, David Cantrell wrote: I've never seen what people see in this. Here's my top few, in no particular order: Paths to Glory Don't know this one ... Do you mean Paths of Glory? Tony
Re: The best film of all time?
On Mon, Sep 17, 2001 at 04:41:42PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote: One of the godfathers, not sure which Godfather Part I. Obviously. Tony -- -- Tony Bowden | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.tmtm.com/ all history is too small for even me; for me and you,exceedingly too small --
Re: The best film of all time?
On Mon, Sep 17, 2001 at 05:14:04PM +0100, Paul Mison wrote: The Pillow Book- let's go ar(t|se)y in top British form, with bonus low-flying jets, Ewan Mcgregor nudity, and a typically disturbing streak (runners up in this category: The Cook, The Theif, His Wife and Her Lover) Ooh. Nice choice. Although, if we're going Greenaway, I'd be tempted towards Propsero's Books... Amateur- Hal Hartley being, well, wierd, but it's pretty good. And on the Hal Hartley front I'd definitely go with Surviving Desire. Tony -- -- Tony Bowden | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.tmtm.com/ si me asesinan, resucitare en el alma del pueblo --
Re: The best film of all time?
On Mon, Sep 17, 2001 at 04:41:42PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote: but what are your top films? I ask because I feel the need to buy some more DVDs soon. La Double Vie De Veronique. But I doubt you'll find it on DVD :( Tony -- -- Tony Bowden | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.tmtm.com/ the woods are lovely, dark, and deep, but I have promises to keep --
Re: Big Projects / Variable Backends
On Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 10:30:05AM +0100, Cross David - dcross wrote: See http://www.extremeprogramming.org/. It's great. We like it. Anyone else going to XPuniverse? (www.xpuniverse.com) Tony -- -- Tony Bowden | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.tmtm.com/ if more people were screaming then I could relax -- PGP signature
Re: In Defence of Mysql was Re: Divorcing data storage from businesslogic
On Tue, Jun 19, 2001 at 11:12:06PM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: umm just do show tables; and ... describe $blah; And also show create table $tablename to recreate the create command (which is much easier than trying to piece it together from 'show tables', which IIRC you can't reverse engineer composite keys from) Tony PGP signature
Re: In Defence of Mysql was Re: Divorcing data storage from businesslogic
On Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 04:15:11PM +0100, Piers Cawley wrote: No what ER Codd is after is that the schema is part of the database - I dont think this is true of MySQL. Indeed. But it doesn't. Where's the description of the various relations? Version 4 of MySQL supports the storage of foreign key information. It doesn't *use* that information in any way, so integrity checking etc is still left to the application, but at least your application will be able to ask the database for foreign key information etc. Tony -- -- Tony Bowden | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.tmtm.com/ fried fried ticking in the side body twitch from side to side -- PGP signature
Re: In Defence of Mysql was Re: Divorcing data storage from businesslogic
On Wed, Jun 20, 2001 at 12:42:47AM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: And also show create table $tablename to recreate the create command (which is much easier than trying to piece it together from 'show tables', which IIRC you can't reverse engineer composite keys from) ooh .. dint know that .. Ive always done mysqldump --opt -d -u blah sourcedb tablename -p | mysql -B -u blah Yes - this is really nice when you're on the machine, but is a pain when you're working on a remote database. SHOW CREATE was introduced in 3.23.20 to make life easier in that case :) Tony -- -- Tony Bowden | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.tmtm.com/ all history is too small for even me; for me and you,exceedingly too small -- PGP signature
