[BAROQUE-LUTE] Strange piece: XXXIX Tanz in ms. Wittgenstein
Dear b-lutenists (cc to normal lutenists) Today I tubed an interesting and in some ways strange piece, a Tanz (XXXIX) in ms. Wittgenstein. While the piece is in a way very simple, it is also interestingly strange - I have not analysed it yet, but something nice happens there here and there. And it was (and still is!) also quite hard to play. I cannot either explain, why it is so... In case you do not take this message as shameless self promotion (which it perhaps also could be taken? ;-), you can find my (more or less modest) version in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DcEeof9KPI and also in http://vimeo.com/32463413 There is also something familiar in this piece. Any ideas? Best, Arto To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Buzzing [was Gut strings]
Some builders will actually set the octave string holes in the bridge down a little lower, closer to the soundboard by a fraction of a millimeter; never tried one of those lutes although seen a few- I've done the pushing and tugging bit and gotten a little more control, it does feel better to the touch- with the thumb especially for me. Dan On Nov 20, 2011, at 10:21 PM, Stephan Olbertz wrote: I recently learned (thanks to Henrik Hasenfuss) that pushing the octave string a bit down at the bridge, and pulling the bass a bit up greatly changes my ability to make a well balanced or even more fundamental sound with my right hand index finger. The melody line in the Straube Sonatas, and more so in the Hasse arrangements go down there and I always wondered if the authors used a unison 6th course. Also all the bass courses gain from this set-up, less clashes for me... Best regards Stephan Am 21.11.2011, 03:30 Uhr, schrieb sterling price spiffys84...@yahoo.com: From: Daniel Winheld dwinh...@comcast.net To: howard posner howardpos...@ca.rr.com Cc: Lutelist LUTELIST lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 7:10 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Buzzing [was Gut strings] Hi-I often practice this technique--playing only the 6th course fundamental with the index finger. Then you can have the best of both worlds. --Sterling Seriously, in Weiss I have encountered situations where the part writing is destroyed (to my ears) by the 6th course octave string going above a low lying treble line. And in some cases that 6th course note is a middle voice, making it all the more difficult to play only the fundamental and not the octave. When I need the sound of a 6th course octave, I can often refinger the note on the 7th course. Dan On Nov 20, 2011, at 4:59 PM, howard posner wrote: Daniel Winheld wrote, rather virtuosically: Howard, you of all people should know that ignorance of the law is no excuse! But I did exaggerate. 6th course unison on a Baroque lute is only an equipment violation. Officer Ed Martin of the LSAPD pulled me over a few years and issued me a fix-it ticket. I have never gotten a speeding ticket except on the Renaissance lute, where I've been known to put the pedal to the medal occasionally. Don't even mention PUI violations! It's obvious that Jakob was deliberately skirting the letter of the law subverting the mores of polite society by having a glamorous famous female Octave Incubater in his employ, a dubious practice most often connected to the decadent European elite. Or he is just an incredibly dedicated resourceful musician. What do I know? More than me. I don't even recall which music Jakob thought required a unison 6th course and which required the octaves. I think the program was all French, which would explain my ignorance/lack of memory. Maybe he used the unisons for Berlioz, Gounod and Debussy. But doesn't Boulez need octaves? -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- -- Erstellt mit Operas revolutionärem E-Mail-Modul: http://www.opera.com/mail/
[LUTE] Anonym - Chi scrisse l'armonia II -again
Hi, yesterday I offered my new Version of -Anonym - Chi scrisse l'armonia II -- For all of you (only 3 downloads!) please downlod it again, because I have added the Original Version. And I have corrected the Name. Sorry it is not a Frottola it is a Villanelle! (I have thousands and thousands of music files in thousands folders. Some are in work, some are not playable, some are,.. some are..and so on. So I hope you excuse this little mistake) Hope you enjoy this nice music. Anton To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: which pavane?
Hi Lex, A great poetic title - thanks. I'll try to locate the music, it a nice piece. Hubert -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Lex van Sante Sent: 20 November 2011 22:28 To: lute mailing list list Subject: [LUTE] Re: which pavane? Hi Hubert, It is guardame las vacas by Luys de Narvaez. But it has been changed somewhat. Nice piece though. Lex Op 20 nov 2011, om 16:28 heeft Hubert Kwisthout het volgende geschreven: Dear Lutenists, Who can tell me the name of this tune played by prog rock Group Ars Nova (1968): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eYJ8lJmP3sfeature=related I seemed to recall that I had the tune on an album with European lute music played by Konrad Ragossnig, but it has vanished in the mists of time. I remain in anticipation, Hubert Kwisthout To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1872 / Virus Database: 2092/4628 - Release Date: 11/20/11
[LUTE] Re: 6th course on 'baroque' lute [was Gut strings]
Dear Monica, Von Radolt's Instructions clearly tell us that he had an octave on the 6th course. Similarly in some of Mouton's tablature (amongst others) the low octave is required to be played and then later the high octave of the same course. See the FoMRHI paper jointly written by Bill Samson and me. rgds M --- On Sun, 20/11/11, Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: From: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk Subject: [LUTE] Re: Buzzing [was Gut strings] To: Daniel Winheld dwinh...@comcast.net Cc: Lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Sunday, 20 November, 2011, 15:07 Hello Daniel Our musical correspondences on these lists have not crossed paths before (I am Baroque Guitar phobic- the stringing of 4th 5th courses gives me cold chills. I prefer the simplicity of a 13 course Baroque lute; and I tell no one that I string my 6th course in unisons- direct violation of Canon Law.) You are not alone! But right now it is fine so if I take it to the luthier he might wonder what I am banging on about. Sounds like a typical car problem- disappears in the presence of the mechanic, so then you have to leave it overnight so he can try to start it up in the morning. Yes - I have a similar problem with my car. One of the warning lights keeps coming on. The garage has done diagnostic checks and say nothing wrong but the light still comes on at times. You'll have to wait for that interesting combo of Santa Ana wind and monsoon season (Aren't you in England? Yes - I live in inner London which has its own microclimate. In the late summer we can have a heat wave and then the temperature can drop 20 degrees over night. Hope this helps, at least with the broader perspective. We are not alone. Yes - that's very helpful and I am grateful for all the advice from other people too. I plucked up my couraged and E-mailed a luthier who did some repairs for me a few years ago. I'll see what if anything he suggests. Best wishes Monica [Eugene C. Braig IV] Do be mindful that all manner of things can cause buzzing, from strings buzzing along lumpy frets to loose glue joints along structural seams to damaged/loose braces etc. ad infinitum. Do get it checked out, but stay open-minded regarding possible causes. Best, Eugene Thank you for all the advice. It is very helpful. The problem is - and the reason why I so far haven't done anything about it - is because it is definitely seasonal. Fine for 10 months of the year and gradually getting worse through July and August when we often have hot weather followed by heavy rain. And then suddenly perfectly OK again. It is also pitch related. It is focused around the high octave string on the fourth course and the same note stopped at the 3rd fret on the second course. But right now it is fine so if I take it to the luthier he might wonder what I am banging on about. I don't think it is strings or frets. Any other ideas will very welcome. Monica To get on or off this list see list information at [1][1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Buzzing [was Gut strings]
Begin doorgestuurd bericht: Van: Lex van Sante lvansa...@gmail.com Datum: 21 november 2011 11:39:14 GMT+01:00 Aan: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk Onderwerp: Antw.: [LUTE] Re: Buzzing [was Gut strings] Hi Monica, I wonder It is focused around the high octave string on the fourth course and the same note stopped at the 3rd fret on the second course. How on earth do you produce the same note on the third fret on the second course. You mean fret 15 don't you? Temperature or humidity related buzzing could be caused by a loose brace. Changes in humidity can cause the soundboard to deform slightly causing a brace which has become partially detached from it to rattle. But check all possible exterior causes first. Otherwise one might find nothing wrong after opening an onstrument. Anyway if everything is all right at the moment now is the time to make an appointment for july next year with your luthier of choice. In the mean time, Happy luting! Lex Op 20 nov 2011, om 16:07 heeft Monica Hall het volgende geschreven: Hello Daniel Our musical correspondences on these lists have not crossed paths before (I am Baroque Guitar phobic- the stringing of 4th 5th courses gives me cold chills. I prefer the simplicity of a 13 course Baroque lute; and I tell no one that I string my 6th course in unisons- direct violation of Canon Law.) You are not alone! But right now it is fine so if I take it to the luthier he might wonder what I am banging on about. Sounds like a typical car problem- disappears in the presence of the mechanic, so then you have to leave it overnight so he can try to start it up in the morning. Yes - I have a similar problem with my car. One of the warning lights keeps coming on. The garage has done diagnostic checks and say nothing wrong but the light still comes on at times. You'll have to wait for that interesting combo of Santa Ana wind and monsoon season (Aren't you in England? Yes - I live in inner London which has its own microclimate. In the late summer we can have a heat wave and then the temperature can drop 20 degrees over night. Hope this helps, at least with the broader perspective. We are not alone. Yes - that's very helpful and I am grateful for all the advice from other people too. I plucked up my couraged and E-mailed a luthier who did some repairs for me a few years ago. I'll see what if anything he suggests. Best wishes Monica [Eugene C. Braig IV] Do be mindful that all manner of things can cause buzzing, from strings buzzing along lumpy frets to loose glue joints along structural seams to damaged/loose braces etc. ad infinitum. Do get it checked out, but stay open-minded regarding possible causes. Best, Eugene Thank you for all the advice. It is very helpful. The problem is - and the reason why I so far haven't done anything about it - is because it is definitely seasonal. Fine for 10 months of the year and gradually getting worse through July and August when we often have hot weather followed by heavy rain. And then suddenly perfectly OK again. It is also pitch related. It is focused around the high octave string on the fourth course and the same note stopped at the 3rd fret on the second course. But right now it is fine so if I take it to the luthier he might wonder what I am banging on about. I don't think it is strings or frets. Any other ideas will very welcome. Monica To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[LUTE] Re: gut string, Petition etc.
Dear Orphenica and other sceptical members of this list. I am afraid I am unable to give you detailed legal interpretations of the EU BSE regulations, but I will try to answer a few of your questions, and set out why I personally signed the petition. reasons which seem to have brought a number of luthenists on the French lute list (including myself) to sign this petition. % Firstly this problem has not just been localised to Italy, even if the last company to stop making gut, Aquila, is located there. Prior to this in 2010, Sofracob (a French company), had to close their doors, for exactly the same set of reasons. % On the French list, a research string maker who was a friend of the people working at Sofracob, confirms that Sofracob, the only French string maker, went out of business after 37 years of service due to EU BSE regulations, as they could no longer source sufficient raw gut. This French researcher tells us that the rules are still in place, here, but ignored when the lobby group is strong enough, as in the case of the chacuterie lobby group. This in itself, it seems to me, is a sufficient reason to sign the petition. Only lobbying may be effective. % We can't save Sofracob, and we may not be able to change Aquila's decision, but there are two other large companies in the EU, Toro, in Italy, and Keurschner in your own country (Germany) who we may be able to save; and we must bear in mind that most raw gut used even by US string makers, comes from the EU, so it is also possibly endangered (There are a few very small companies that have their own supply of sheep gut, and one sourcing from Moroco, but none of these are large enough to meet demands). % Searching the net for information, I see that Mimmo Peruffo in 2006 did give a warning about the immenent danger from BSE regulation in an interview with the Guardian (dated Sunday 21 May 2006). [1]http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/may/21/bse?INTCMP=SRCH (Please note that the Argintinian company mentioned in this text, went bancrupt). % Peruffo hoped to ask for an exemption to the ban for a 'historically significant' craft: 'Without strings, no one could play Bach or Handel. % Unfortunately, nothing followed from this, and Sofracob closed in February 2010 exactly for this same reason. % As members of this list seem sceptical, I think I should copy the announcement from Sofracob: FR) SOFRACOB (SociA(c)tA(c) FranAS:aise de Corde en Boyaux) to close its doors after 37 years of service Contributed by Admin on Jan 09, 2010 % Dear Customer, % Ever since the onset of Mad Cow Disease (BSE), we have done our best to maintain our business activity. Unfortunately, however, despite all our efforts, we must inform you that SOFRACOB will terminate its business at the end of February 2010. We recommend that you purchase some inventory before our closing, but we must receive your order no later than late January. We have always done our utmost to provide you with the best in customer satisfaction, and we are sorry to be obliged to end our collaboration. Pending your eventual orders for the end of January 2010, you can be certain that this situation has left us regretful that we will no longer be able to serve you. % Sincerely Yours, Best regards. Ph. LENOBLE and VIRGINIE % This text alone would make me sign the petition. % It may be that people on the US List feel somehow that this (coming after the crysis of the Euro) is just another EU problem (certainly many on the French list have signed the petition); but I think this would be rather looking at the situation with blinkers. Mimmo's warning in 2006 was ignored, and Sofracob closed not long after. Do we want to wait for the next victim? % Regards Anthony % De : Orphenica [2]wer...@orphenica.de AEUR : [3]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu [4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu EnvoyA(c) le : Dimanche 20 Novembre 2011 23h17 Objet : [LUTE] Re: gut string, etc. Hi collective lute wisdom, can somebody sum up the situation on gut strings for me. As I am a heavy gut player, I'd like to understand what is going on in this field. As far as I understood it, the production and import of gut strings (esp. beef gut) used to be forbidden in the EU, due to cases of BSE some years ago. This jurisdiction has been withdrawn and production is allowed again, with the exception of Italy which missed to cancel the abolition from the national Italian body of law. Aquila stopped the production of gut strings due to this national Italian jurisdiction AND/OR because it could not get raw material of sufficient quality, because of import restrictions. As I read from the post here on the lists, production in other countries
[LUTE] Re: gut string, Petition etc.
Thank you for this Anthony, I am not particularly sceptical but, like some others, find a certain lack of clarity in the position. Your description of how and why Sofracob went out of business is that they 'could no longer source sufficient raw gut' not that they were unable to source raw gut at all. The implication from your other recent mailings is that this was because the EU regulations had reduced if not entirely eliminated their ability to source raw gut. But I had earlier believed that Sofracob's decision was purely commercial - on the grounds of reduced profit margins - perhaps by having to pay more to 'source sufficient raw gut'. Maybe the same considerations apply to Aquila? Regarding BSE, perhaps there is a case to only source safely produced gut (if not for the players then for the workers who handle the product). Certainly abattoirs in the UK have very strict regulations which might have slightly increased wholesale meat costs but we still get offal and the like - even on supermarket shelves! I think the concern may be in becoming too over excited about an issue which may be a non-problem. Has anyone approached Toro or Keurschner to find out if they anticipate supply difficulties? regards Martyn --- On Mon, 21/11/11, Anthony Hind agno3ph...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Anthony Hind agno3ph...@yahoo.com Subject: [LUTE] Re: gut string, Petition etc. To: Orphenica wer...@orphenica.de, lute@cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Monday, 21 November, 2011, 10:56 Dear Orphenica and other sceptical members of this list. I am afraid I am unable to give you detailed legal interpretations of the EU BSE regulations, but I will try to answer a few of your questions, and set out why I personally signed the petition. reasons which seem to have brought a number of luthenists on the French lute list (including myself) to sign this petition. % Firstly this problem has not just been localised to Italy, even if the last company to stop making gut, Aquila, is located there. Prior to this in 2010, Sofracob (a French company), had to close their doors, for exactly the same set of reasons. % On the French list, a research string maker who was a friend of the people working at Sofracob, confirms that Sofracob, the only French string maker, went out of business after 37 years of service due to EU BSE regulations, as they could no longer source sufficient raw gut. This French researcher tells us that the rules are still in place, here, but ignored when the lobby group is strong enough, as in the case of the chacuterie lobby group. This in itself, it seems to me, is a sufficient reason to sign the petition. Only lobbying may be effective. % We can't save Sofracob, and we may not be able to change Aquila's decision, but there are two other large companies in the EU, Toro, in Italy, and Keurschner in your own country (Germany) who we may be able to save; and we must bear in mind that most raw gut used even by US string makers, comes from the EU, so it is also possibly endangered (There are a few very small companies that have their own supply of sheep gut, and one sourcing from Moroco, but none of these are large enough to meet demands). % Searching the net for information, I see that Mimmo Peruffo in 2006 did give a warning about the immenent danger from BSE regulation in an interview with the Guardian (dated Sunday 21 May 2006). [1][1]http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/may/21/bse?INTCMP=SRCH (Please note that the Argintinian company mentioned in this text, went bancrupt). % Peruffo hoped to ask for an exemption to the ban for a 'historically significant' craft: 'Without strings, no one could play Bach or Handel. % Unfortunately, nothing followed from this, and Sofracob closed in February 2010 exactly for this same reason. % As members of this list seem sceptical, I think I should copy the announcement from Sofracob: FR) SOFRACOB (SociA(c)tA(c) FranAS:aise de Corde en Boyaux) to close its doors after 37 years of service Contributed by Admin on Jan 09, 2010 % Dear Customer, % Ever since the onset of Mad Cow Disease (BSE), we have done our best to maintain our business activity. Unfortunately, however, despite all our efforts, we must inform you that SOFRACOB will terminate its business at the end of February 2010. We recommend that you purchase some inventory before our closing, but we must receive your order no later than late January. We have always done our utmost to provide you with the best
[LUTE] Re: Octave stringing tensions
It is an old paper, and Toyohiko has certainly changed his ideas since that time. It was written with synthetic strings in mind. At 12:30 AM 11/21/2011, David Smith wrote: Hi, I was reading an article by Toyohiko Satoh in Vol. II (1969) of the LSA Journal entitled A Method for Stringing Lutes. In it he recommends using 1/4^th to 1/5^th the tension on the octave string compared to the fundamental and that this will emphasize the fundamental and put the octave harmonic in balance. He also recommends the use of two different thicknesses for unison tuning (1/2 the tension on the right or upper string). Does anyone know if this is common practice or if it was refuted at one point? Regards David Smith -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871ref=name http://www.myspace.com/edslute http://magnatune.com/artists/edward_martin
[LUTE] Re: Buzzing [was Gut strings]
I wonder It is focused around the high octave string on the fourth course and the same note stopped at the 3rd fret on the second course. How on earth do you produce the same note on the third fret on the second course. You mean fret 15 don't you? No! Obviously you know nothing about the baroque guitar! The fourth course has two strings on it tuned an octave apart i.e. d on the middle line of the bass clef and the d below the lowest line of treble = d d'. The second course is b below middle c. When stopped at the 3rd fret it produces the note d' = the same as the high string on the fourth course... Thanks for the rest of your advice which I shall follow. Monica Temperature or humidity related buzzing could be caused by a loose brace. Changes in humidity can cause the soundboard to deform slightly causing a brace which has become partially detached from it to rattle. But check all possible exterior causes first. Otherwise one might find nothing wrong after opening an onstrument. Anyway if everything is all right at the moment now is the time to make an appointment for july next year with your luthier of choice. In the mean time, Happy luting! Lex Op 20 nov 2011, om 16:07 heeft Monica Hall het volgende geschreven: Hello Daniel Our musical correspondences on these lists have not crossed paths before (I am Baroque Guitar phobic- the stringing of 4th 5th courses gives me cold chills. I prefer the simplicity of a 13 course Baroque lute; and I tell no one that I string my 6th course in unisons- direct violation of Canon Law.) You are not alone! But right now it is fine so if I take it to the luthier he might wonder what I am banging on about. Sounds like a typical car problem- disappears in the presence of the mechanic, so then you have to leave it overnight so he can try to start it up in the morning. Yes - I have a similar problem with my car. One of the warning lights keeps coming on. The garage has done diagnostic checks and say nothing wrong but the light still comes on at times. You'll have to wait for that interesting combo of Santa Ana wind and monsoon season (Aren't you in England? Yes - I live in inner London which has its own microclimate. In the late summer we can have a heat wave and then the temperature can drop 20 degrees over night. Hope this helps, at least with the broader perspective. We are not alone. Yes - that's very helpful and I am grateful for all the advice from other people too. I plucked up my couraged and E-mailed a luthier who did some repairs for me a few years ago. I'll see what if anything he suggests. Best wishes Monica [Eugene C. Braig IV] Do be mindful that all manner of things can cause buzzing, from strings buzzing along lumpy frets to loose glue joints along structural seams to damaged/loose braces etc. ad infinitum. Do get it checked out, but stay open-minded regarding possible causes. Best, Eugene Thank you for all the advice. It is very helpful. The problem is - and the reason why I so far haven't done anything about it - is because it is definitely seasonal. Fine for 10 months of the year and gradually getting worse through July and August when we often have hot weather followed by heavy rain. And then suddenly perfectly OK again. It is also pitch related. It is focused around the high octave string on the fourth course and the same note stopped at the 3rd fret on the second course. But right now it is fine so if I take it to the luthier he might wonder what I am banging on about. I don't think it is strings or frets. Any other ideas will very welcome. Monica To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: 6th course on 'baroque' lute [was Gut strings]
Dear Martin Von Radolt's Instructions clearly tell us that he had an octave on the 6th course. Similarly in some of Mouton's tablature (amongst others) the low octave is required to be played and then later the high octave of the same course. See the FoMRHI paper jointly written by Bill Samson and me. Yes - I know that. I think two different threads have got muddled up here. But it does tie up with a query which I sent to the list some time ago which nobody responded to. I asked whether, when the 6-course lute was octave strung, it had octave stringing on the 4th, 5th and 6th courses. I asked because I have been comparing Foscarini's arrangements of lute works by Gaultier with the originals. He sticks very close to the original (making allowances for the absence of a 6th course and the fact that the 3rd course on the lute is a semitone lower). However, on the guitar the 4th and 5th courses are in octaves and in some ways this distorts the part writing. Any thoughts on that one? Regards Monica --- On Sun, 20/11/11, Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: From: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk Subject: [LUTE] Re: Buzzing [was Gut strings] To: Daniel Winheld dwinh...@comcast.net Cc: Lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Sunday, 20 November, 2011, 15:07 Hello Daniel Our musical correspondences on these lists have not crossed paths before (I am Baroque Guitar phobic- the stringing of 4th 5th courses gives me cold chills. I prefer the simplicity of a 13 course Baroque lute; and I tell no one that I string my 6th course in unisons- direct violation of Canon Law.) You are not alone! But right now it is fine so if I take it to the luthier he might wonder what I am banging on about. Sounds like a typical car problem- disappears in the presence of the mechanic, so then you have to leave it overnight so he can try to start it up in the morning. Yes - I have a similar problem with my car. One of the warning lights keeps coming on. The garage has done diagnostic checks and say nothing wrong but the light still comes on at times. You'll have to wait for that interesting combo of Santa Ana wind and monsoon season (Aren't you in England? Yes - I live in inner London which has its own microclimate. In the late summer we can have a heat wave and then the temperature can drop 20 degrees over night. Hope this helps, at least with the broader perspective. We are not alone. Yes - that's very helpful and I am grateful for all the advice from other people too. I plucked up my couraged and E-mailed a luthier who did some repairs for me a few years ago. I'll see what if anything he suggests. Best wishes Monica [Eugene C. Braig IV] Do be mindful that all manner of things can cause buzzing, from strings buzzing along lumpy frets to loose glue joints along structural seams to damaged/loose braces etc. ad infinitum. Do get it checked out, but stay open-minded regarding possible causes. Best, Eugene Thank you for all the advice. It is very helpful. The problem is - and the reason why I so far haven't done anything about it - is because it is definitely seasonal. Fine for 10 months of the year and gradually getting worse through July and August when we often have hot weather followed by heavy rain. And then suddenly perfectly OK again. It is also pitch related. It is focused around the high octave string on the fourth course and the same note stopped at the 3rd fret on the second course. But right now it is fine so if I take it to the luthier he might wonder what I am banging on about. I don't think it is strings or frets. Any other ideas will very welcome. Monica To get on or off this list see list information at [1][1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Buzzing [was Gut strings]
Hi Monica, Mea culpa! I obviously misread what you wrote. Happens to me quite often these days:( Lex Oh, and not at all! Op 21 nov 2011, om 15:01 heeft Monica Hall het volgende geschreven: I wonder It is focused around the high octave string on the fourth course and the same note stopped at the 3rd fret on the second course. How on earth do you produce the same note on the third fret on the second course. You mean fret 15 don't you? No! Obviously you know nothing about the baroque guitar! The fourth course has two strings on it tuned an octave apart i.e. d on the middle line of the bass clef and the d below the lowest line of treble = d d'. The second course is b below middle c. When stopped at the 3rd fret it produces the note d' = the same as the high string on the fourth course... Thanks for the rest of your advice which I shall follow. Monica Temperature or humidity related buzzing could be caused by a loose brace. Changes in humidity can cause the soundboard to deform slightly causing a brace which has become partially detached from it to rattle. But check all possible exterior causes first. Otherwise one might find nothing wrong after opening an onstrument. Anyway if everything is all right at the moment now is the time to make an appointment for july next year with your luthier of choice. In the mean time, Happy luting! Lex Op 20 nov 2011, om 16:07 heeft Monica Hall het volgende geschreven: Hello Daniel Our musical correspondences on these lists have not crossed paths before (I am Baroque Guitar phobic- the stringing of 4th 5th courses gives me cold chills. I prefer the simplicity of a 13 course Baroque lute; and I tell no one that I string my 6th course in unisons- direct violation of Canon Law.) You are not alone! But right now it is fine so if I take it to the luthier he might wonder what I am banging on about. Sounds like a typical car problem- disappears in the presence of the mechanic, so then you have to leave it overnight so he can try to start it up in the morning. Yes - I have a similar problem with my car. One of the warning lights keeps coming on. The garage has done diagnostic checks and say nothing wrong but the light still comes on at times. You'll have to wait for that interesting combo of Santa Ana wind and monsoon season (Aren't you in England? Yes - I live in inner London which has its own microclimate. In the late summer we can have a heat wave and then the temperature can drop 20 degrees over night. Hope this helps, at least with the broader perspective. We are not alone. Yes - that's very helpful and I am grateful for all the advice from other people too. I plucked up my couraged and E-mailed a luthier who did some repairs for me a few years ago. I'll see what if anything he suggests. Best wishes Monica [Eugene C. Braig IV] Do be mindful that all manner of things can cause buzzing, from strings buzzing along lumpy frets to loose glue joints along structural seams to damaged/loose braces etc. ad infinitum. Do get it checked out, but stay open-minded regarding possible causes. Best, Eugene Thank you for all the advice. It is very helpful. The problem is - and the reason why I so far haven't done anything about it - is because it is definitely seasonal. Fine for 10 months of the year and gradually getting worse through July and August when we often have hot weather followed by heavy rain. And then suddenly perfectly OK again. It is also pitch related. It is focused around the high octave string on the fourth course and the same note stopped at the 3rd fret on the second course. But right now it is fine so if I take it to the luthier he might wonder what I am banging on about. I don't think it is strings or frets. Any other ideas will very welcome. Monica To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Gut strings
Dear all, noboby has told us yet by which EU-regulation (kind of [e.g. directive?], year, number, date of publication, article no.) the production of gut strings should be prohibited. By now we only have the personal statement of Mimmo Perufo that strict European legislation (?) forbids the production and use of beef gut. Beeing a lawyer (and lutenist) I would appreciate more precise information to verify the statement. Henner -- Dr. Henner Kahlert In der Tasch 2a D 76227 Karlsruhe (Durlach) Tel. 0721-403353 Tel. Büro 0721-23984 Fax Büro 0721-20978 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Gut strings
Here is a beginning for you (if you can follow the legal jargon): There are several laws causing the crisis. One of these laws can be found here: in English: [1]http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ%3AL%3A2004% 3A162%3A0062%3A0064%3AEN%3APDF Anthony __ De : henner.kahl...@t-online.de henner.kahl...@t-online.de A : Lutenet lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Envoye le : Lundi 21 Novembre 2011 15h55 Objet : [LUTE] Gut strings Dear all, noboby has told us yet by which EU-regulation (kind of [e.g. directive?], year, number, date of publication, article no.) the production of gut strings should be prohibited. By now we only have the personal statement of Mimmo Perufo that strict European legislation (?) forbids the production and use of beef gut. Beeing a lawyer (and lutenist) I would appreciate more precise information to verify the statement. Henner -- Dr. Henner Kahlert In der Tasch 2a D 76227 Karlsruhe (Durlach) Tel. 0721-403353 Tel. Buero 0721-23984 Fax Buero 0721-20978 To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ%3AL%3A2004%3A162%3A0062%3A0064%3AEN%3APDF 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Buzzing [was Gut strings]
Hi Monica, A couple of things you might check (though you may well have done so already) - Loose string ends at the peghead or the bridge - these could shift around with humidity changes. Don't want to worry you, but I had some intractible buzzing on one of my lutes that eventually resolved itself when the bridge flew off. Fortunately it came off cleanly and was easily fixed. Anyway - No harm in looking closely at the lower edge of the bridge to see if there's any sign of it wanting to part company with the soundboard. It's best to eliminate the easy things before undertaking more complicated investigations. Not a guitar person myself, particularly, but I'd have thought that these fancy rosettes are a place where buzzing might be located too - some little bit of parchment waggling like a tuning fork maybe? Again, that could be influenced by humidity. Then again there are the inlays . . . Bill From: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk To: Lex van Sante lvansa...@gmail.com Cc: Lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, 21 November 2011, 14:01 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Buzzing [was Gut strings] I wonder It is focused around the high octave string on the fourth course and the same note stopped at the 3rd fret on the second course. How on earth do you produce the same note on the third fret on the second course. You mean fret 15 don't you? No! Obviously you know nothing about the baroque guitar! The fourth course has two strings on it tuned an octave apart i.e. d on the middle line of the bass clef and the d below the lowest line of treble = d d'. The second course is b below middle c. When stopped at the 3rd fret it produces the note d' = the same as the high string on the fourth course... Thanks for the rest of your advice which I shall follow. Monica Temperature or humidity related buzzing could be caused by a loose brace. Changes in humidity can cause the soundboard to deform slightly causing a brace which has become partially detached from it to rattle. But check all possible exterior causes first. Otherwise one might find nothing wrong after opening an onstrument. Anyway if everything is all right at the moment now is the time to make an appointment for july next year with your luthier of choice. In the mean time, Happy luting! Lex Op 20 nov 2011, om 16:07 heeft Monica Hall het volgende geschreven: Hello Daniel Our musical correspondences on these lists have not crossed paths before (I am Baroque Guitar phobic- the stringing of 4th 5th courses gives me cold chills. I prefer the simplicity of a 13 course Baroque lute; and I tell no one that I string my 6th course in unisons- direct violation of Canon Law.) You are not alone! But right now it is fine so if I take it to the luthier he might wonder what I am banging on about. Sounds like a typical car problem- disappears in the presence of the mechanic, so then you have to leave it overnight so he can try to start it up in the morning. Yes - I have a similar problem with my car. One of the warning lights keeps coming on. The garage has done diagnostic checks and say nothing wrong but the light still comes on at times. You'll have to wait for that interesting combo of Santa Ana wind and monsoon season (Aren't you in England? Yes - I live in inner London which has its own microclimate. In the late summer we can have a heat wave and then the temperature can drop 20 degrees over night. Hope this helps, at least with the broader perspective. We are not alone. Yes - that's very helpful and I am grateful for all the advice from other people too. I plucked up my couraged and E-mailed a luthier who did some repairs for me a few years ago. I'll see what if anything he suggests. Best wishes Monica [Eugene C. Braig IV] Do be mindful that all manner of things can cause buzzing, from strings buzzing along lumpy frets to loose glue joints along structural seams to damaged/loose braces etc. ad infinitum. Do get it checked out, but stay open-minded regarding possible causes. Best, Eugene Thank you for all the advice. It is very helpful. The problem is - and the reason why I so far haven't done anything about it - is because it is definitely seasonal. Fine for 10 months of the year and gradually getting worse through July and August when we often have hot weather followed by heavy rain. And then suddenly perfectly OK again. It is also pitch related. It is focused around the high octave string on the fourth course
[LUTE] Re: Buzzing [was Gut strings]
Hi Monica, Mea culpa! I obviously misread what you wrote. Happens to me quite often these days:( It happens to me all the time. I blame it on old age but I'm not sure that you can claim that as an excuse Monica Lex Oh, and not at all! Op 21 nov 2011, om 15:01 heeft Monica Hall het volgende geschreven: I wonder It is focused around the high octave string on the fourth course and the same note stopped at the 3rd fret on the second course. How on earth do you produce the same note on the third fret on the second course. You mean fret 15 don't you? No! Obviously you know nothing about the baroque guitar! The fourth course has two strings on it tuned an octave apart i.e. d on the middle line of the bass clef and the d below the lowest line of treble = d d'. The second course is b below middle c. When stopped at the 3rd fret it produces the note d' = the same as the high string on the fourth course... Thanks for the rest of your advice which I shall follow. Monica Temperature or humidity related buzzing could be caused by a loose brace. Changes in humidity can cause the soundboard to deform slightly causing a brace which has become partially detached from it to rattle. But check all possible exterior causes first. Otherwise one might find nothing wrong after opening an onstrument. Anyway if everything is all right at the moment now is the time to make an appointment for july next year with your luthier of choice. In the mean time, Happy luting! Lex Op 20 nov 2011, om 16:07 heeft Monica Hall het volgende geschreven: Hello Daniel Our musical correspondences on these lists have not crossed paths before (I am Baroque Guitar phobic- the stringing of 4th 5th courses gives me cold chills. I prefer the simplicity of a 13 course Baroque lute; and I tell no one that I string my 6th course in unisons- direct violation of Canon Law.) You are not alone! But right now it is fine so if I take it to the luthier he might wonder what I am banging on about. Sounds like a typical car problem- disappears in the presence of the mechanic, so then you have to leave it overnight so he can try to start it up in the morning. Yes - I have a similar problem with my car. One of the warning lights keeps coming on. The garage has done diagnostic checks and say nothing wrong but the light still comes on at times. You'll have to wait for that interesting combo of Santa Ana wind and monsoon season (Aren't you in England? Yes - I live in inner London which has its own microclimate. In the late summer we can have a heat wave and then the temperature can drop 20 degrees over night. Hope this helps, at least with the broader perspective. We are not alone. Yes - that's very helpful and I am grateful for all the advice from other people too. I plucked up my couraged and E-mailed a luthier who did some repairs for me a few years ago. I'll see what if anything he suggests. Best wishes Monica [Eugene C. Braig IV] Do be mindful that all manner of things can cause buzzing, from strings buzzing along lumpy frets to loose glue joints along structural seams to damaged/loose braces etc. ad infinitum. Do get it checked out, but stay open-minded regarding possible causes. Best, Eugene Thank you for all the advice. It is very helpful. The problem is - and the reason why I so far haven't done anything about it - is because it is definitely seasonal. Fine for 10 months of the year and gradually getting worse through July and August when we often have hot weather followed by heavy rain. And then suddenly perfectly OK again. It is also pitch related. It is focused around the high octave string on the fourth course and the same note stopped at the 3rd fret on the second course. But right now it is fine so if I take it to the luthier he might wonder what I am banging on about. I don't think it is strings or frets. Any other ideas will very welcome. Monica To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Buzzing [was Gut strings]
Not a guitar person myself, particularly, but I'd have thought that these fancy rosettes are a place where buzzing might be located too - some little bit of parchment waggling like a tuning fork maybe? Again, that could be influenced by humidity. Then again there are the inlays Yes - a few years ago I did have a problem with the rose coming unstuck but it doesn't seem to be that which is the problem at the moment. As for inlay - I daren't look at that for fear of what I might find. It does have some fancy work around the sound hole. Monica . . . Bill From: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk To: Lex van Sante lvansa...@gmail.com Cc: Lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, 21 November 2011, 14:01 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Buzzing [was Gut strings] I wonder It is focused around the high octave string on the fourth course and the same note stopped at the 3rd fret on the second course. How on earth do you produce the same note on the third fret on the second course. You mean fret 15 don't you? No! Obviously you know nothing about the baroque guitar! The fourth course has two strings on it tuned an octave apart i.e. d on the middle line of the bass clef and the d below the lowest line of treble = d d'. The second course is b below middle c. When stopped at the 3rd fret it produces the note d' = the same as the high string on the fourth course... Thanks for the rest of your advice which I shall follow. Monica Temperature or humidity related buzzing could be caused by a loose brace. Changes in humidity can cause the soundboard to deform slightly causing a brace which has become partially detached from it to rattle. But check all possible exterior causes first. Otherwise one might find nothing wrong after opening an onstrument. Anyway if everything is all right at the moment now is the time to make an appointment for july next year with your luthier of choice. In the mean time, Happy luting! Lex Op 20 nov 2011, om 16:07 heeft Monica Hall het volgende geschreven: Hello Daniel Our musical correspondences on these lists have not crossed paths before (I am Baroque Guitar phobic- the stringing of 4th 5th courses gives me cold chills. I prefer the simplicity of a 13 course Baroque lute; and I tell no one that I string my 6th course in unisons- direct violation of Canon Law.) You are not alone! But right now it is fine so if I take it to the luthier he might wonder what I am banging on about. Sounds like a typical car problem- disappears in the presence of the mechanic, so then you have to leave it overnight so he can try to start it up in the morning. Yes - I have a similar problem with my car. One of the warning lights keeps coming on. The garage has done diagnostic checks and say nothing wrong but the light still comes on at times. You'll have to wait for that interesting combo of Santa Ana wind and monsoon season (Aren't you in England? Yes - I live in inner London which has its own microclimate. In the late summer we can have a heat wave and then the temperature can drop 20 degrees over night. Hope this helps, at least with the broader perspective. We are not alone. Yes - that's very helpful and I am grateful for all the advice from other people too. I plucked up my couraged and E-mailed a luthier who did some repairs for me a few years ago. I'll see what if anything he suggests. Best wishes Monica [Eugene C. Braig IV] Do be mindful that all manner of things can cause buzzing, from strings buzzing along lumpy frets to loose glue joints along structural seams to damaged/loose braces etc. ad infinitum. Do get it checked out, but stay open-minded regarding possible causes. Best, Eugene Thank you for all the advice. It is very helpful. The problem is - and the reason why I so far haven't done anything about it - is because it is definitely seasonal. Fine for 10 months of the year and gradually getting worse through July and August when we often have hot weather followed by heavy rain. And then suddenly perfectly OK again. It is also pitch related. It is focused around the high octave string on the fourth course and the same note stopped at the 3rd fret on the second course. But right now it is fine so if I take it to the luthier he might wonder what I am banging on about. I don't think it is strings or frets. Any other ideas will very welcome. Monica To get on or off this list see list information at [1][1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: gut string, Petition etc.
Dear Martyn I am grateful to Charles Besnainou (who is a French research person on strings of all sorts) for helping me to understand this situation a little better. Charles learnt gut string making from Sofracob, and he had an excellent relation with its director M. Lenoble. He tells me that far from closing because he wasn't making enough profit, M. Lenoble actually returned to direct the company after retirement just to try to steer it out of debt. He was proud to have managed to close without owing anything. Although he was very sad to have closed a company that once had 150 workers. % Charles also tells me that the problem would be exactly the same for Sofracob at the moment if they still existed. % Perhaps, one thing he told me clarifies how it could be that these rulings for BSE could have been extended to musical string making. In fact, Sofracob also made medical catgut, and of course this would be directly in contact with the inside of the body (whereas musical gut usually remains outside, except possibly if you were to lick it before passing it through the bridge). I am not certain about that, but it seems logically possible, that the ruling was for both surgical and musical strings treated together. The ruling was against Prions, and of course sheep gut can also contain Prions (from Scrapes), so I assume it applied to all gut types. % I appologise for not being able to give legal interpretations of the BSE rulings. I did read some of them, but am no legal eagle. I am myself struggling to understand the issues. % I don't think it would be advisable to make any specific statements about which string makers might be more in danger. This would only plunge them into more difficulty (hopefully, none ar at risk right now). % I am certainly not in favour of taking risks with BSE, but, as I said above, I can only understand the exaggerated application of these rules to string making by its historical association with surgical gut. I believe there is no more surgical gut in the EU, so it would seem time to loosen these applications. However, if you read the petition, it is suggested that health specialists be involved with altering the application of these rules. Best regards Anthony De : Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk À : lute@cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Anthony Hind agno3ph...@yahoo.com Envoyé le : Lundi 21 Novembre 2011 12h55 Objet : [LUTE] Re: gut string, Petition etc. Thank you for this Anthony, I am not particularly sceptical but, like some others, find a certain lack of clarity in the position. Your description of how and why Sofracob went out of business is that they 'could no longer source sufficient raw gut' not that they were unable to source raw gut at all. The implication from your other recent mailings is that this was because the EU regulations had reduced if not entirely eliminated their ability to source raw gut. But I had earlier believed that Sofracob's decision was purely commercial - on the grounds of reduced profit margins - perhaps by having to pay more to 'source sufficient raw gut'. Maybe the same considerations apply to Aquila? Regarding BSE, perhaps there is a case to only source safely produced gut (if not for the players then for the workers who handle the product). Certainly abattoirs in the UK have very strict regulations which might have slightly increased wholesale meat costs but we still get offal and the like - even on supermarket shelves! I think the concern may be in becoming too over excited about an issue which may be a non-problem. Has anyone approached Toro or Keurschner to find out if they anticipate supply difficulties? regards Martyn --- On Mon, 21/11/11, Anthony Hind agno3ph...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Anthony Hind agno3ph...@yahoo.com Subject: [LUTE] Re: gut string, Petition etc. To: Orphenica wer...@orphenica.de, lute@cs.dartmouth.edu lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Monday, 21 November, 2011, 10:56 Dear Orphenica and other sceptical members of this list. I am afraid I am unable to give you detailed legal interpretations of the EU BSE regulations, but I will try to answer a few of your questions, and set out why I personally signed the petition. reasons which seem to have brought a number of luthenists on the French lute list (including myself) to sign this petition. % Firstly this problem has not just been localised to Italy, even if the last company to stop making gut, Aquila, is located there. Prior to this in 2010, Sofracob (a French company), had to close their doors, for exactly the same set of reasons. % On the French list, a research string maker who was a friend of the people working at Sofracob, confirms that Sofracob, the only French string
[LUTE] Re: Buzzing [was Gut strings]
I second William. I hesitate to jump in on these mysteries, but in my makers years I actually never saw a loose-brace caused buzz... Most were from some bridge problem, and as I was a classic guitar guy, mainly ill-fitting bridge bones. If you have one of those reverse-funnel rosettes it would make me suspect there. If it is a carved lute rose, then a split or splinter there. Buzzing can be a real mystery to find! Garry Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 11:06 AM To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Buzzing [was Gut strings] Hi Monica, A couple of things you might check (though you may well have done so already) - Loose string ends at the peghead or the bridge - these could shift around with humidity changes. Don't want to worry you, but I had some intractible buzzing on one of my lutes that eventually resolved itself when the bridge flew off. Fortunately it came off cleanly and was easily fixed. Anyway - No harm in looking closely at the lower edge of the bridge to see if there's any sign of it wanting to part company with the soundboard. It's best to eliminate the easy things before undertaking more complicated investigations. Not a guitar person myself, particularly, but I'd have thought that these fancy rosettes are a place where buzzing might be located too - some little bit of parchment waggling like a tuning fork maybe? Again, that could be influenced by humidity. Then again there are the inlays To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Buzzing [was Gut strings]
On Mon, 21 Nov 2011 13:08:58 -0500, Garry Warber wrote I second William. I hesitate to jump in on these mysteries, but in my makers years I actually never saw a loose-brace caused buzz... Strange - I had three instruments with braces comming of, all of them had a noticeable buzz who only showed up at certain pitch levels and in certain weather (or, more precise) humidity conditions. Same happend to some of my friends' instruments. Most were from some bridge problem, and as I was a classic guitar guy, mainly ill-fitting bridge bones. And you really want to compare guitar bracing with lute bracing? I _never_ saw a loose guitar brace (I assume we talk about modern guitar here, no bridge bones on real ones ;-) My failsafe test for looses braces: take a tuning fork (preferably a heavier one, like a low C fork), strike it, put the end on the sound board and run it along the center and the sides of the top. Cheers, RalfD If you have one of those reverse-funnel rosettes it would make me suspect there. If it is a carved lute rose, then a split or splinter there. Buzzing can be a real mystery to find! Garry Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 11:06 AM To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Buzzing [was Gut strings] Hi Monica, A couple of things you might check (though you may well have done so already) - Loose string ends at the peghead or the bridge - these could shift around with humidity changes. Don't want to worry you, but I had some intractible buzzing on one of my lutes that eventually resolved itself when the bridge flew off. Fortunately it came off cleanly and was easily fixed. Anyway - No harm in looking closely at the lower edge of the bridge to see if there's any sign of it wanting to part company with the soundboard. It's best to eliminate the easy things before undertaking more complicated investigations. Not a guitar person myself, particularly, but I'd have thought that these fancy rosettes are a place where buzzing might be located too - some little bit of parchment waggling like a tuning fork maybe? Again, that could be influenced by humidity. Then again there are the inlays To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- R. Mattes - Hochschule fuer Musik Freiburg r...@inm.mh-freiburg.de
[LUTE] Re: Buzzing [was Gut strings]
I know much detailed discussion has transpired since. However, the fact that the issue is pitch-related, most noticeable at a particular pitch even if sounded on different courses, implies that the issue is probably not related to a single string or the bit of hardware specific to any one string (nut slot, bridge hole, a particular fret under that course, etc.). As the frequency of the pitch is transferred to the instrument's structure, whatever has become loose enough to vibrate and offend is doing so in sympathy to that frequency. I can't speculate regarding what bit of structure is doing the buzzing (that should still be left to a proper repair luthier with the instrument in hand for inspection), but I do believe your issue will be related to the general structure of the instrument and not a specific string. Luck, Eugene -Original Message- From: Monica Hall [mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 4:05 PM To: Eugene C. Braig IV Cc: Lutelist Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Buzzing [was Gut strings] [Eugene C. Braig IV] Do be mindful that all manner of things can cause buzzing, from strings buzzing along lumpy frets to loose glue joints along structural seams to damaged/loose braces etc. ad infinitum. Do get it checked out, but stay open-minded regarding possible causes. Best, Eugene Thank you for all the advice. It is very helpful. The problem is - and the reason why I so far haven't done anything about it - is because it is definitely seasonal. Fine for 10 months of the year and gradually getting worse through July and August when we often have hot weather followed by heavy rain. And then suddenly perfectly OK again.It is also pitch related. It is focused around the high octave string on the fourth course and the same note stopped at the 3rd fret on the second course. But right now it is fine so if I take it to the luthier he might wonder what I am banging on about. I don't think it is strings or frets. Any other ideas will very welcome. Monica To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Buzzing [was Gut strings]
Oh my, I stepped on some toes... Okay, my responses are divided with yours: -Original Message- From: R. Mattes Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 1:36 PM To: Garry Warber ; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Buzzing [was Gut strings] On Mon, 21 Nov 2011 13:08:58 -0500, Garry Warber wrote I second William. I hesitate to jump in on these mysteries, but in my makers years I actually never saw a loose-brace caused buzz... Strange - I had three instruments with braces comming of, all of them had a noticeable buzz who only showed up at certain pitch levels and in certain weather (or, more precise) humidity conditions. Same happend to some of my friends' instruments. ++yep, I am strange, true enough! :-) Most were from some bridge problem, and as I was a classic guitar guy, mainly ill-fitting bridge bones. And you really want to compare guitar bracing with lute bracing? I _never_ saw a loose guitar brace (I assume we talk about modern guitar here, no bridge bones on real ones ;-) +reread please! No comparison, I was putting qualifiers on my suitability to even enter this fray. Also, I have built a few lutes, but I am no true luthier. My failsafe test for looses braces: take a tuning fork (preferably a heavier one, like a low C fork), strike it, put the end on the sound board and run it along the center and the sides of the top. ++ sounds like a su-poib way to find it! I'll remember that, just in case... How many tops have scratches plowed into them from that technique by the way? :-) Cheers, RalfD To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Buzzing [was Gut strings]
Never mind all these comments are helpful. Monica - Original Message - From: Garry Warber garrywar...@hughes.net To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 7:51 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Buzzing [was Gut strings] Oh my, I stepped on some toes... Okay, my responses are divided with yours: -Original Message- From: R. Mattes Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 1:36 PM To: Garry Warber ; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Buzzing [was Gut strings] On Mon, 21 Nov 2011 13:08:58 -0500, Garry Warber wrote I second William. I hesitate to jump in on these mysteries, but in my makers years I actually never saw a loose-brace caused buzz... Strange - I had three instruments with braces comming of, all of them had a noticeable buzz who only showed up at certain pitch levels and in certain weather (or, more precise) humidity conditions. Same happend to some of my friends' instruments. ++yep, I am strange, true enough! :-) Most were from some bridge problem, and as I was a classic guitar guy, mainly ill-fitting bridge bones. And you really want to compare guitar bracing with lute bracing? I _never_ saw a loose guitar brace (I assume we talk about modern guitar here, no bridge bones on real ones ;-) +reread please! No comparison, I was putting qualifiers on my suitability to even enter this fray. Also, I have built a few lutes, but I am no true luthier. My failsafe test for looses braces: take a tuning fork (preferably a heavier one, like a low C fork), strike it, put the end on the sound board and run it along the center and the sides of the top. ++ sounds like a su-poib way to find it! I'll remember that, just in case... How many tops have scratches plowed into them from that technique by the way? :-) Cheers, RalfD To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: 6th course on 'baroque' lute [was Gut strings]
On 21/11/2011 14:09, Monica Hall wrote: I asked because I have been comparing Foscarini's arrangements of lute works by Gaultier with the originals. He sticks very close to the original (making allowances for the absence of a 6th course and the fact that the 3rd course on the lute is a semitone lower). However, on the guitar the 4th and 5th courses are in octaves and in some ways this distorts the part writing. Monica Which of the Foscarini pieces are Gaultier lute pieces? Actually one piece is by Gaultier and two by Mesangeau Corrente francese con le sue parte doppie (p. 42) = [Ennemond Gaultier] (GB-Cfm Ms. Mus. 689, fol. 37r(a)) Corrente francese (p. 54(a)) = René Mesangeau (CZ-Pnm IV.G.18, fol. 70v) Seconda corrente francese (p. 54(b)) = René Mesangeau, Courante (CZ-Pnm IV.G.18, fol. 69v-70r) Monica Any thoughts on that one? Regards Monica --- On Sun, 20/11/11, Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: From: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk Subject: [LUTE] Re: Buzzing [was Gut strings] To: Daniel Winheld dwinh...@comcast.net Cc: Lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Sunday, 20 November, 2011, 15:07 Hello Daniel Our musical correspondences on these lists have not crossed paths before (I am Baroque Guitar phobic- the stringing of 4th 5th courses gives me cold chills. I prefer the simplicity of a 13 course Baroque lute; and I tell no one that I string my 6th course in unisons- direct violation of Canon Law.) You are not alone! But right now it is fine so if I take it to the luthier he might wonder what I am banging on about. Sounds like a typical car problem- disappears in the presence of the mechanic, so then you have to leave it overnight so he can try to start it up in the morning. Yes - I have a similar problem with my car. One of the warning lights keeps coming on. The garage has done diagnostic checks and say nothing wrong but the light still comes on at times. You'll have to wait for that interesting combo of Santa Ana wind and monsoon season (Aren't you in England? Yes - I live in inner London which has its own microclimate. In the late summer we can have a heat wave and then the temperature can drop 20 degrees over night. Hope this helps, at least with the broader perspective. We are not alone. Yes - that's very helpful and I am grateful for all the advice from other people too. I plucked up my couraged and E-mailed a luthier who did some repairs for me a few years ago. I'll see what if anything he suggests. Best wishes Monica [Eugene C. Braig IV] Do be mindful that all manner of things can cause buzzing, from strings buzzing along lumpy frets to loose glue joints along structural seams to damaged/loose braces etc. ad infinitum. Do get it checked out, but stay open-minded regarding possible causes. Best, Eugene Thank you for all the advice. It is very helpful. The problem is - and the reason why I so far haven't done anything about it - is because it is definitely seasonal. Fine for 10 months of the year and gradually getting worse through July and August when we often have hot weather followed by heavy rain. And then suddenly perfectly OK again. It is also pitch related. It is focused around the high octave string on the fourth course and the same note stopped at the 3rd fret on the second course. But right now it is fine so if I take it to the luthier he might wonder what I am banging on about. I don't think it is strings or frets. Any other ideas will very welcome. Monica To get on or off this list see list information at [1][1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Theorbo sighting
Baroque sextet with hurdy-gurdy and (nicely audible) theorbo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzmPNtpTiiQ Regards, Leonard Williams _ [: :] / | | \ | | | | (_==_) !~¿ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Buzzing [was Gut strings]
Monica, Thank you... I'm curious. We recently re-located from the Olympic Peninsula, and I'm just curious if you are the Monica Hall that lived in Europe for some years and lately re-located to Seattle? An Early Music specialist and at the time Baroque violin player? I'm 2500 miles from Seattle now, but as I said, just curious. After all, there are apparently two Stephen Stubbs in the world. :-) Garry -Original Message- From: Monica Hall Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 3:37 PM To: Garry Warber Cc: Lutelist Subject: [LUTE] Re: Buzzing [was Gut strings] Never mind all these comments are helpful. Monica To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: gut strings in Morocco
Bruno, this is great news! Arto On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 19:32:20 -0500, Bruno Fournier br...@estavel.org wrote: Dear lutenetters of America, A I have found out throught the french lutenet, that gut strings are still being made in Morocco: A [1]http://www.pure-corde.com/en A -- A Bruno Cognyl-Fournier A [2]www.estavel.org A -- References 1. http://www.pure-corde.com/en 2. http://www.estavel.org/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: gut strings in Morocco
On their website they say they make a limited number of gauges only. If you buy sets from them, they add Kuerschner, Kathedrale or Aquila (!?). They don't make 0.40mm. Pity, but they might be coaxed into expanding their business? David David van Ooijen [1]www.davidvanooijen.nl On Nov 21, 2011 11:49 PM, wikla [2]wi...@cs.helsinki.fi wrote: Bruno, this is great news! Arto On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 19:32:20 -0500, Bruno Fournier [3]br...@estavel.org wrote: Dear lutenetters of America, A I have found out throught the french lutenet, that gut strings are still being made in Morocco: A [1][4]http://www.pure-corde.com/en A -- A Bruno Cognyl-Fournier A [2][5]www.estavel.org A -- References 1. [6]http://www.pure-corde.com/en 2. [7]http://www.estavel.org/ To get on or off this list see list information at [8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/ 2. mailto:wi...@cs.helsinki.fi 3. mailto:br...@estavel.org 4. http://www.pure-corde.com/en 5. http://www.estavel.org/ 6. http://www.pure-corde.com/en 7. http://www.estavel.org/ 8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Buzzing [was Gut strings]
I actually had a buzz once on a lute, and it drove me crazy (or as Dan Winheld would say about me, crazier than baseline). Of all things it was a nylgut treble on a baroque lute, and it buzzed like crazy, and it took a while to determine where the buzz came fro. A new string did the tick ( I used gut the next time). ed At 12:52 PM 11/21/2011, Eugene C. Braig IV wrote: I know much detailed discussion has transpired since. However, the fact that the issue is pitch-related, most noticeable at a particular pitch even if sounded on different courses, implies that the issue is probably not related to a single string or the bit of hardware specific to any one string (nut slot, bridge hole, a particular fret under that course, etc.). As the frequency of the pitch is transferred to the instrument's structure, whatever has become loose enough to vibrate and offend is doing so in sympathy to that frequency. I can't speculate regarding what bit of structure is doing the buzzing (that should still be left to a proper repair luthier with the instrument in hand for inspection), but I do believe your issue will be related to the general structure of the instrument and not a specific string. Luck, Eugene -Original Message- From: Monica Hall [mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 4:05 PM To: Eugene C. Braig IV Cc: Lutelist Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Buzzing [was Gut strings] [Eugene C. Braig IV] Do be mindful that all manner of things can cause buzzing, from strings buzzing along lumpy frets to loose glue joints along structural seams to damaged/loose braces etc. ad infinitum. Do get it checked out, but stay open-minded regarding possible causes. Best, Eugene Thank you for all the advice. It is very helpful. The problem is - and the reason why I so far haven't done anything about it - is because it is definitely seasonal. Fine for 10 months of the year and gradually getting worse through July and August when we often have hot weather followed by heavy rain. And then suddenly perfectly OK again.It is also pitch related. It is focused around the high octave string on the fourth course and the same note stopped at the 3rd fret on the second course. But right now it is fine so if I take it to the luthier he might wonder what I am banging on about. I don't think it is strings or frets. Any other ideas will very welcome. Monica To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871ref=name http://www.myspace.com/edslute http://magnatune.com/artists/edward_martin
