Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB
Thanks, Roger! -Original Message- From: Roger Mullins To: Model 100 Discussion Sent: Fri, Apr 28, 2017 5:13 pm Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB Here are a couple of YouTube videos that I referred to when I was getting my system set up. I still had to tweak some things here and there but in general these guys do a pretty good job of walking the viewer through the process. https://youtu.be/WoPxMRZRBzg <- using a PC and a 102 https://youtu.be/H0xx9cOe97s <- dlplus and teeny on Linux; I never got teeny to work properly on my 100 but that's most likely user error and in the meantime I discovered minicom which did what I needed -Roger
Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB
Now I see why you used 300 baud ;-) With a direct connection (as opposed to Bluetooth or Ethernet packets) you can usually run just fine at 9600 or even 19200 if you enable XON/XOFF; contrary to the video your choice of handshaking makes a large difference. The usual way to transfer any text file (including programs) is of course TELCOM; however, using TEXT is usually quite a bit faster since there is no scrolling, which slows things down considerably. Then you just load and save in BASIC which will create a true .BA file, and delete the .DO file if you don't need it any more. One time where using BASIC to load as in the video is useful is if you don't have enough memory to have both the text and tokenized versions in memory at the same time. - Original Message - From: Roger Mullins To: Model 100 Discussion Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 5:13 PM Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB Here are a couple of YouTube videos that I referred to when I was getting my system set up. I still had to tweak some things here and there but in general these guys do a pretty good job of walking the viewer through the process. https://youtu.be/WoPxMRZRBzg <- using a PC and a 102 https://youtu.be/H0xx9cOe97s <- dlplus and teeny on Linux; I never got teeny to work properly on my 100 but that's most likely user error and in the meantime I discovered minicom which did what I needed -Roger
Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB
Here are a couple of YouTube videos that I referred to when I was getting my system set up. I still had to tweak some things here and there but in general these guys do a pretty good job of walking the viewer through the process. https://youtu.be/WoPxMRZRBzg <- using a PC and a 102 https://youtu.be/H0xx9cOe97s <- dlplus and teeny on Linux; I never got teeny to work properly on my 100 but that's most likely user error and in the meantime I discovered minicom which did what I needed -Roger
Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB
- Original Message - From: John R. Hogerhuis To: Model 100 Discussion Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 3:23 PM Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB > LaddieAlpha doesn't convert the file, but it corrects the extension. So if > it's listed as .BA but it's ASCII, it will appear to the Model 100 as a .DO > extension, which allows a safe transfer. -- Sorry if I was ambiguous; I meant that it converts the extension. To actually convert a 'real' .BA file into a .DO file and vice versa the simplest way is to load it if possible (using the appropriate tool) and then save it with the correct extension (or the 'A' suffix) as appropriate. There are also DOS programs to convert from one to the other on a PC if necessary. m
Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB
Uhm...my bad. It's been a while since I worked in list forums. :/ -Original Message- From: John R. Hogerhuis To: Model 100 Discussion Sent: Fri, Apr 28, 2017 3:23 pm Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB <...> BTW guys, you should trim the quoted portions of emails you respond to or you will quickly hit the list's message size limit. -- John.
Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB
On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 12:12 PM, Lee Olivares wrote: > Thanks MIke! Your clarifications are most appreciated! > > I assume a tokenized .BA file either wont open at all or be "garbled" when > opened in notepad or vi whereas a proper plain-text .DO or .BA will be > readable. > > LaddieAlpha doesn't convert the file, but it corrects the extension. So if it's listed as .BA but it's ASCII, it will appear to the Model 100 as a .DO extension, which allows a safe transfer. > several low-cost methods of putting TS-DOS into a ROM > > This is reckon is the "next level" once a new user is familiar enough with > getting files in/out and establishing connectivity to a TPDD "server". > > What are the .lst files on the HTERM page? I assume those are assembler > listings? Turbo Assembler? (total guess here). > > They are the .lst output of the free DOS version of Telemark Assembler. Yes, TASM, but not Turbo Assembler TASM. Huh... not sure if it's available on the net anymore. There are copies floating around if you cannot find it. BTW guys, you should trim the quoted portions of emails you respond to or you will quickly hit the list's message size limit. -- John.
Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB
On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 10:54 AM, Lee Olivares wrote: > I'd be happy to create a "bootstrap" page on the bitchin100 wiki to go > into the details I initially got hung up on: > > I suggest not making one giant page, but linking to others where necessary. There are some articles already available. http://bitchin100.com/wiki/index.php?title=Category:File_Transfer > - Initial serial null modem connection and testing using screen (*nix) > hyperterminal (win) and telcom. > http://bitchin100.com/wiki/index.php?title=Text_File_Transfer_using_Hyperterminal - BA/DO transfers using telcom & screen/minicom. > Yeah I don't think we have a minicom tutorial. > - Loading DOS (TEENY or TSDOS) using above. > - Using DOS to access dlplus or laddieconalpha to xfer .CO files. > > Logically then it should explain .CO file management, I can summarize the > excellent guidance provided on the list last week. > > You could improve/build on this: http://bitchin100.com/wiki/index.php?title=Loading_a_typical_CO_file > And while we're at it some DOS basics like the Load (from),Save (to), and > "Kill" which wasn't an obvious "delete" command to this novice. :) > > Good idea. Also where people get tripped up: what cabling is necessary and known to work, especially given USB->Serial adapters being the typical option. Note too that you probably haven't completely explored file transfer yet. Have you heard of Kurt McCullum's mcomm? There are Windows and Android versions. http://club100.org/memfiles/index.php?PHPSESSID=mp2vfks9ujjocg26c8d37tlp44&direction=0&order=&directory=Kurt%20McCullum I added a user for you, let me know if you have trouble editing pages. Thanks! -- John.
Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB
Thanks MIke! Your clarifications are most appreciated! I assume a tokenized .BA file either wont open at all or be "garbled" when opened in notepad or vi whereas a proper plain-text .DO or .BA will be readable. several low-cost methods of putting TS-DOS into a ROM This is reckon is the "next level" once a new user is familiar enough with getting files in/out and establishing connectivity to a TPDD "server". What are the .lst files on the HTERM page? I assume those are assembler listings? Turbo Assembler? (total guess here). - Lee - 909.437.0250 - Destroying technology problems. On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 11:59 AM, Mike Stein wrote: > Not to be too pedantic, but putting .BA and .DO files together might be a > little misleading. A 'real' .BA file can not be successfully transferred > using terminal programs unless you also load something like xmodem etc., > and has to be transferred in the same way as .CO files. > > So I would say '...Plain-text .BA and .DO files transfers using Telcom' > and '...using dlplus to transfer .CO and tokenized .BA files'. > > In the old Compuserve etc. days when binary transfers over a modem were > not available, it was the custom to rename the plaintext .DO to > .BA to distinguish it from actual .DO document files; before > actually loading them into the ModelT they would have to be renamed to > .DO > > But a 'real' .BA file such as what you get when you SAVE a program is a > tokenized binary file which can in fact corrupt the file system if you try > to load it as a text file. > > So, unless you already know, it's a good idea to inspect a .BA file first > to see if it's plain text or tokenized. If it's plain text it must be > loaded into the ModelT with a .DO extension; if it's tokenized it (and also > .CO files) will have to be transferred using a binary-compatible method > such as TEENY, TS-DOS, XMODEM etc. with a suitable 'server' at the other > end. > > Again, LaddieAlpha handles the conversion if necessary. > > Note that there are several low-cost methods of putting TS-DOS into a ROM, > effectively adding it to the OS. > > m > > ----- Original Message - > *From:* Lee Olivares > *To:* Model 100 Discussion > *Sent:* Friday, April 28, 2017 1:54 PM > *Subject:* Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif > Serial to USB > > I'd be happy to create a "bootstrap" page on the bitchin100 wiki to go > into the details I initially got hung up on: > > - Initial serial null modem connection and testing using screen (*nix) > hyperterminal (win) and telcom. > - BA/DO transfers using telcom & screen/minicom. > - Loading DOS (TEENY or TSDOS) using above. > - Using DOS to access dlplus or laddieconalpha to xfer .CO files. > > Logically then it should explain .CO file management, I can summarize the > excellent guidance provided on the list last week. > > And while we're at it some DOS basics like the Load (from),Save (to), and > "Kill" which wasn't an obvious "delete" command to this novice. :) > > - Lee > - 909.437.0250 <(909)%20437-0250> > - Destroying technology problems. > > > > On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 10:26 AM, Roger Mullins wrote: > >> I've never played around with HTERM but I think I might after this >> thread. :-) Maybe fire up Lynx and do some web surfing on my M100. >> >> On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 1:01 PM, Lee Olivares wrote: >> >>> If using minicom to move over BA/DO files be sure to do ASCII transfers, >>> unless you've loaded sxm.100 or another XMODEM compatible telcom >>> enhancement that is. >>> >>> - Lee >>> - 909.437.0250 <(909)%20437-0250> >>> - Destroying technology problems. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 8:33 AM, Mike Stein wrote: >>> >>>> I think what we need is a video showing TS-DOS (preferably in ROM) or >>>> mcomm in action; I don't know why anyone would want to fool with terminal >>>> programs these days (especially at 300 baud ;-) with so many better >>>> alternatives around unless there were a special reason. >>>> >>>> As John pointed out, LaddieAlpha (the 'server')works with all three >>>> platforms. >>>> >>>> For actually logging into a 'NIX system (as opposed to transferring >>>> file) HTERM is a Telcom replacement that uses hardware handshaking to get >>>> around XON/XOFF issues (and run faster). >>>> >>>> BTW, AFAIK you can't transfer &#x
Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB
That would be great, Lee. Sure help me a lot. -Original Message- From: Lee Olivares To: Model 100 Discussion Sent: Fri, Apr 28, 2017 1:55 pm Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB I'd be happy to create a "bootstrap" page on the bitchin100 wiki to go into the details I initially got hung up on: - Initial serial null modem connection and testing using screen (*nix) hyperterminal (win) and telcom. - BA/DO transfers using telcom & screen/minicom. - Loading DOS (TEENY or TSDOS) using above. - Using DOS to access dlplus or laddieconalpha to xfer .CO files. Logically then it should explain .CO file management, I can summarize the excellent guidance provided on the list last week. And while we're at it some DOS basics like the Load (from),Save (to), and "Kill" which wasn't an obvious "delete" command to this novice. :) - Lee - 909.437.0250 - Destroying technology problems.
Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB
Not to be too pedantic, but putting .BA and .DO files together might be a
little misleading. A 'real' .BA file can not be successfully transferred using
terminal programs unless you also load something like xmodem etc., and has to
be transferred in the same way as .CO files.
So I would say '...Plain-text .BA and .DO files transfers using Telcom' and
'...using dlplus to transfer .CO and tokenized .BA files'.
In the old Compuserve etc. days when binary transfers over a modem were not
available, it was the custom to rename the plaintext .DO to .BA
to distinguish it from actual .DO document files; before actually loading them
into the ModelT they would have to be renamed to .DO
But a 'real' .BA file such as what you get when you SAVE a program is a
tokenized binary file which can in fact corrupt the file system if you try to
load it as a text file.
So, unless you already know, it's a good idea to inspect a .BA file first to
see if it's plain text or tokenized. If it's plain text it must be loaded into
the ModelT with a .DO extension; if it's tokenized it (and also .CO files) will
have to be transferred using a binary-compatible method such as TEENY, TS-DOS,
XMODEM etc. with a suitable 'server' at the other end.
Again, LaddieAlpha handles the conversion if necessary.
Note that there are several low-cost methods of putting TS-DOS into a ROM,
effectively adding it to the OS.
m
- Original Message -
From: Lee Olivares
To: Model 100 Discussion
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 1:54 PM
Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial
to USB
I'd be happy to create a "bootstrap" page on the bitchin100 wiki to go into
the details I initially got hung up on:
- Initial serial null modem connection and testing using screen (*nix)
hyperterminal (win) and telcom.
- BA/DO transfers using telcom & screen/minicom.
- Loading DOS (TEENY or TSDOS) using above.
- Using DOS to access dlplus or laddieconalpha to xfer .CO files.
Logically then it should explain .CO file management, I can summarize the
excellent guidance provided on the list last week.
And while we're at it some DOS basics like the Load (from),Save (to), and
"Kill" which wasn't an obvious "delete" command to this novice. :)
- Lee
- 909.437.0250
- Destroying technology problems.
On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 10:26 AM, Roger Mullins wrote:
I've never played around with HTERM but I think I might after this thread.
:-) Maybe fire up Lynx and do some web surfing on my M100.
On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 1:01 PM, Lee Olivares wrote:
If using minicom to move over BA/DO files be sure to do ASCII transfers,
unless you've loaded sxm.100 or another XMODEM compatible telcom enhancement
that is.
- Lee
- 909.437.0250
- Destroying technology problems.
On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 8:33 AM, Mike Stein wrote:
I think what we need is a video showing TS-DOS (preferably in ROM) or
mcomm in action; I don't know why anyone would want to fool with terminal
programs these days (especially at 300 baud ;-) with so many better
alternatives around unless there were a special reason.
As John pointed out, LaddieAlpha (the 'server')works with all three
platforms.
For actually logging into a 'NIX system (as opposed to transferring
file) HTERM is a Telcom replacement that uses hardware handshaking to get
around XON/XOFF issues (and run faster).
BTW, AFAIK you can't transfer 'real' .BA files with terminal programs
or the method below, only plain text .DO versions (although of course they may
be confusingly mislabelled as .BA) That's caused a lot of confusion and crashes
if they're not renamed during the transfer (although I believe LaddieAlpha also
takes care of that issue.)
m
- Original Message -----
From: Roger Mullins
To: Model 100 Discussion
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 10:59 AM
Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables,
specif Serial to USB
That cable should work fine for you - all I do is go into BASIC on
the M100 and type
new
load"com:38n1e"
...then launch minicom on my Linux box and use 'send file' and select
the .BA (or whatever) file that I've downloaded. Actually I just realized I've
never tried it in reverse but I suppose that would work as well.
-Roger
On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 7:16 AM, Paul Bucalo wrote:
Roger, what I want to accomplish at this time is what you are
doing. I download a slew of programs from old archives and I haven't a means of
getting them into my M100 with the hardware I have now. Today I w
Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB
I'd be happy to create a "bootstrap" page on the bitchin100 wiki to go into the details I initially got hung up on: - Initial serial null modem connection and testing using screen (*nix) hyperterminal (win) and telcom. - BA/DO transfers using telcom & screen/minicom. - Loading DOS (TEENY or TSDOS) using above. - Using DOS to access dlplus or laddieconalpha to xfer .CO files. Logically then it should explain .CO file management, I can summarize the excellent guidance provided on the list last week. And while we're at it some DOS basics like the Load (from),Save (to), and "Kill" which wasn't an obvious "delete" command to this novice. :) - Lee - 909.437.0250 - Destroying technology problems. On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 10:26 AM, Roger Mullins wrote: > I've never played around with HTERM but I think I might after this thread. > :-) Maybe fire up Lynx and do some web surfing on my M100. > > On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 1:01 PM, Lee Olivares wrote: > >> If using minicom to move over BA/DO files be sure to do ASCII transfers, >> unless you've loaded sxm.100 or another XMODEM compatible telcom >> enhancement that is. >> >> - Lee >> - 909.437.0250 <(909)%20437-0250> >> - Destroying technology problems. >> >> >> >> On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 8:33 AM, Mike Stein wrote: >> >>> I think what we need is a video showing TS-DOS (preferably in ROM) or >>> mcomm in action; I don't know why anyone would want to fool with terminal >>> programs these days (especially at 300 baud ;-) with so many better >>> alternatives around unless there were a special reason. >>> >>> As John pointed out, LaddieAlpha (the 'server')works with all three >>> platforms. >>> >>> For actually logging into a 'NIX system (as opposed to transferring >>> file) HTERM is a Telcom replacement that uses hardware handshaking to get >>> around XON/XOFF issues (and run faster). >>> >>> BTW, AFAIK you can't transfer 'real' .BA files with terminal programs or >>> the method below, only plain text .DO versions (although of course they may >>> be confusingly mislabelled as .BA) That's caused a lot of confusion and >>> crashes if they're not renamed during the transfer (although I believe >>> LaddieAlpha also takes care of that issue.) >>> >>> m >>> >>> - Original Message - >>> *From:* Roger Mullins >>> *To:* Model 100 Discussion >>> *Sent:* Friday, April 28, 2017 10:59 AM >>> *Subject:* Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, >>> specif Serial to USB >>> >>> That cable should work fine for you - all I do is go into BASIC on the >>> M100 and type >>> >>> new >>> load"com:38n1e" >>> >>> ...then launch minicom on my Linux box and use 'send file' and select >>> the .BA (or whatever) file that I've downloaded. Actually I just realized >>> I've never tried it in reverse but I suppose that would work as well. >>> >>> >>> -Roger >>> >>> On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 7:16 AM, Paul Bucalo wrote: >>> >>>> Roger, what I want to accomplish at this time is what you are doing. I >>>> download a slew of programs from old archives and I haven't a means of >>>> getting them into my M100 with the hardware I have now. Today I will order >>>> the Belkin cable. At $2 bucks and shipping it's worth having around. >>>> >>>> I appreciate all the comments and suggestions offered up here. >>>> Resurrecting my M100 is totally about spending time in the past. I don't >>>> need this to work for any project or importance. The M100 was my first >>>> working computer. It was the late 80s. I was a Property and Casualty >>>> Insurance Agent in a small agency, looking for an automated means of >>>> contact management. It worked. It worked well. So I look forward to playing >>>> around with the options given. It's not the destination that I look forward >>>> to, but how much I can learn on the way there. Forward to the Past! :) >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Roger Mullins >>>> To: Model 100 Discussion >>>> Sent: Fri, Apr 28, 2017 3:11 am >>>> Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif >>>> Serial to USB >>>> >>>> Right, that's w
Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB
I've never played around with HTERM but I think I might after this thread. :-) Maybe fire up Lynx and do some web surfing on my M100. On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 1:01 PM, Lee Olivares wrote: > If using minicom to move over BA/DO files be sure to do ASCII transfers, > unless you've loaded sxm.100 or another XMODEM compatible telcom > enhancement that is. > > - Lee > - 909.437.0250 <(909)%20437-0250> > - Destroying technology problems. > > > > On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 8:33 AM, Mike Stein wrote: > >> I think what we need is a video showing TS-DOS (preferably in ROM) or >> mcomm in action; I don't know why anyone would want to fool with terminal >> programs these days (especially at 300 baud ;-) with so many better >> alternatives around unless there were a special reason. >> >> As John pointed out, LaddieAlpha (the 'server')works with all three >> platforms. >> >> For actually logging into a 'NIX system (as opposed to transferring file) >> HTERM is a Telcom replacement that uses hardware handshaking to get around >> XON/XOFF issues (and run faster). >> >> BTW, AFAIK you can't transfer 'real' .BA files with terminal programs or >> the method below, only plain text .DO versions (although of course they may >> be confusingly mislabelled as .BA) That's caused a lot of confusion and >> crashes if they're not renamed during the transfer (although I believe >> LaddieAlpha also takes care of that issue.) >> >> m >> >> - Original Message - >> *From:* Roger Mullins >> *To:* Model 100 Discussion >> *Sent:* Friday, April 28, 2017 10:59 AM >> *Subject:* Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif >> Serial to USB >> >> That cable should work fine for you - all I do is go into BASIC on the >> M100 and type >> >> new >> load"com:38n1e" >> >> ...then launch minicom on my Linux box and use 'send file' and select the >> .BA (or whatever) file that I've downloaded. Actually I just realized I've >> never tried it in reverse but I suppose that would work as well. >> >> >> -Roger >> >> On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 7:16 AM, Paul Bucalo wrote: >> >>> Roger, what I want to accomplish at this time is what you are doing. I >>> download a slew of programs from old archives and I haven't a means of >>> getting them into my M100 with the hardware I have now. Today I will order >>> the Belkin cable. At $2 bucks and shipping it's worth having around. >>> >>> I appreciate all the comments and suggestions offered up here. >>> Resurrecting my M100 is totally about spending time in the past. I don't >>> need this to work for any project or importance. The M100 was my first >>> working computer. It was the late 80s. I was a Property and Casualty >>> Insurance Agent in a small agency, looking for an automated means of >>> contact management. It worked. It worked well. So I look forward to playing >>> around with the options given. It's not the destination that I look forward >>> to, but how much I can learn on the way there. Forward to the Past! :) >>> >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: Roger Mullins >>> To: Model 100 Discussion >>> Sent: Fri, Apr 28, 2017 3:11 am >>> Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif >>> Serial to USB >>> >>> Right, that's what it takes for minicom to work properly. My distro is >>> actually a hard drive install of Puppy - I have an ancient HP laptop and >>> Puppy was the only one that could find my particular Broadcom wireless >>> adapter. >>> >>> Anyhow, that cable works great for no more than I do with it, which is >>> basically transferring downloaded files to my M100. >>> >>> >>> Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device >>> >>> >>> Original message >>> From: Daryl Tester >>> Date: 04/27/2017 9:06 PM (GMT-05:00) >>> To: m100@lists.bitchin100.com >>> Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif >>> Serial to USB >>> >>> Roger wrote: >>> >>> > I also use Linux, running minicom to communicate with my M100 on >>> > ttyd0. From the command line: >>> > >>> > rm /dev/ttyd0 >>> > ln -s ttyUSB0 /dev/ttyd0 >>> > minicom >>> >>> On Thu, 27 Apr 2017 20:33:59 -0400, Paul Bucalo wrote: >>> >>> > You said you are also using Linux. What flavor of Linux are you >>> > running that uses ttyd instead of ttyS for serial devices? I only >>> > know >>> > of BSD/*nix that uses that device designation. >>> >>> I think he's done that for minicom default reasons, not Linux reasons. >>> You can override it (of course) to point at whatever device you like, >>> the caveat being that USB serial devices tend to dynamically jump all >>> over the place (unless there is some udev magic). >>> >>> -- >>> Regards, >>>Daryl Tester >>>Handcrafted Computers Pty. Ltd. >>> >> >> >
Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB
I haven't tried an M100-to-PC connection in ages, and that was done through the
use of Disk+. For now, I would like to access the hundreds of .DO, .CO, and .BA
files I have downloaded off the Web, now residing on the main Linux workstation
in the network. The primary server and NAS are both headless, so my intent is
to connect the M100 to a workstation that has access to the server. I can move
the file over to that workstation, making it the exclusive 'go-to' for the
M100, or copy over from the server only what is needed at the time. Whatever
works best, easiest, and for the time being, with the least amount or no cost
at all. It would be great to have access to one or more YT videos showing how
to use the applications discussed in this thread. At any rate, I will look into
what's been mentioned, and I appreciate the cons and pros presented here.
-Original Message-
From: Mike Stein
To: Model 100 Discussion
Sent: Fri, Apr 28, 2017 11:33 am
Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial
to USB
I think what we need is a video showing TS-DOS (preferably in ROM) or mcomm in
action; I don't know why anyone would want to fool with terminal programs these
days (especially at 300 baud ;-) with so many better alternatives around unless
there were a special reason.
As John pointed out, LaddieAlpha (the 'server')works with all three platforms.
For actually logging into a 'NIX system (as opposed to transferring file) HTERM
is a Telcom replacement that uses hardware handshaking to get around XON/XOFF
issues (and run faster).
BTW, AFAIK you can't transfer 'real' .BA files with terminal programs or the
method below, only plain text .DO versions (although of course they may be
confusingly mislabelled as .BA) That's caused a lot of confusion and crashes if
they're not renamed during the transfer (although I believe LaddieAlpha also
takes care of that issue.)
m
- Original Message -
From: Roger Mullins
To: Model 100 Discussion
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 10:59 AM
Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial
to USB
That cable should work fine for you - all I do is go into BASIC on the M100
and type
new
load"com:38n1e"
...then launch minicom on my Linux box and use 'send file' and select the .BA
(or whatever) file that I've downloaded. Actually I just realized I've never
tried it in reverse but I suppose that would work as well.
-Roger
On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 7:16 AM, Paul Bucalo wrote:
Roger, what I want to accomplish at this time is what you are doing. I
download a slew of programs from old archives and I haven't a means of
getting them into my M100 with the hardware I have now. Today I will order
the Belkin cable. At $2 bucks and shipping it's worth having around.
I appreciate all the comments and suggestions offered up here. Resurrecting
my M100 is totally about spending time in the past. I don't need this to
work for any project or importance. The M100 was my first working computer.
It was the late 80s. I was a Property and Casualty Insurance Agent in a
small agency, looking for an automated means of contact management. It
worked. It worked well. So I look forward to playing around with the
options given. It's not the destination that I look forward to, but how
much I can learn on the way there. Forward to the Past! :)
-Original Message-
From: Roger Mullins
To: Model 100 Discussion
Sent: Fri, Apr 28, 2017 3:11 am
Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif
Serial to USB
Right, that's what it takes for minicom to work properly. My distro is
actually a hard drive install of Puppy - I have an ancient HP laptop and
Puppy was the only one that could find my particular Broadcom wireless
adapter.
Anyhow, that cable works great for no more than I do with it, which is
basically transferring downloaded files to my M100.
Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
Original message ----
From: Daryl Tester
Date: 04/27/2017 9:06 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: m100@lists.bitchin100.com
Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif
Serial to USB
Roger wrote:
> I also use Linux, running minicom to communicate with my M100 on
> ttyd0. From the command line:
>
> rm /dev/ttyd0
> ln -s ttyUSB0 /dev/ttyd0
> minicom
On Thu, 27 Apr 2017 20:33:59 -0400, Paul Bucalo wrote:
> You said you are also using Linux. What flavor of Linux are you
> running that uses ttyd instead of ttyS for serial devices? I only
> know
>
Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB
If using minicom to move over BA/DO files be sure to do ASCII transfers, unless you've loaded sxm.100 or another XMODEM compatible telcom enhancement that is. - Lee - 909.437.0250 - Destroying technology problems. On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 8:33 AM, Mike Stein wrote: > I think what we need is a video showing TS-DOS (preferably in ROM) or > mcomm in action; I don't know why anyone would want to fool with terminal > programs these days (especially at 300 baud ;-) with so many better > alternatives around unless there were a special reason. > > As John pointed out, LaddieAlpha (the 'server')works with all three > platforms. > > For actually logging into a 'NIX system (as opposed to transferring file) > HTERM is a Telcom replacement that uses hardware handshaking to get around > XON/XOFF issues (and run faster). > > BTW, AFAIK you can't transfer 'real' .BA files with terminal programs or > the method below, only plain text .DO versions (although of course they may > be confusingly mislabelled as .BA) That's caused a lot of confusion and > crashes if they're not renamed during the transfer (although I believe > LaddieAlpha also takes care of that issue.) > > m > > - Original Message ----- > *From:* Roger Mullins > *To:* Model 100 Discussion > *Sent:* Friday, April 28, 2017 10:59 AM > *Subject:* Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif > Serial to USB > > That cable should work fine for you - all I do is go into BASIC on the > M100 and type > > new > load"com:38n1e" > > ...then launch minicom on my Linux box and use 'send file' and select the > .BA (or whatever) file that I've downloaded. Actually I just realized I've > never tried it in reverse but I suppose that would work as well. > > > -Roger > > On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 7:16 AM, Paul Bucalo wrote: > >> Roger, what I want to accomplish at this time is what you are doing. I >> download a slew of programs from old archives and I haven't a means of >> getting them into my M100 with the hardware I have now. Today I will order >> the Belkin cable. At $2 bucks and shipping it's worth having around. >> >> I appreciate all the comments and suggestions offered up here. >> Resurrecting my M100 is totally about spending time in the past. I don't >> need this to work for any project or importance. The M100 was my first >> working computer. It was the late 80s. I was a Property and Casualty >> Insurance Agent in a small agency, looking for an automated means of >> contact management. It worked. It worked well. So I look forward to playing >> around with the options given. It's not the destination that I look forward >> to, but how much I can learn on the way there. Forward to the Past! :) >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: Roger Mullins >> To: Model 100 Discussion >> Sent: Fri, Apr 28, 2017 3:11 am >> Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif >> Serial to USB >> >> Right, that's what it takes for minicom to work properly. My distro is >> actually a hard drive install of Puppy - I have an ancient HP laptop and >> Puppy was the only one that could find my particular Broadcom wireless >> adapter. >> >> Anyhow, that cable works great for no more than I do with it, which is >> basically transferring downloaded files to my M100. >> >> >> Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device >> >> >> Original message >> From: Daryl Tester >> Date: 04/27/2017 9:06 PM (GMT-05:00) >> To: m100@lists.bitchin100.com >> Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif >> Serial to USB >> >> Roger wrote: >> >> > I also use Linux, running minicom to communicate with my M100 on >> > ttyd0. From the command line: >> > >> > rm /dev/ttyd0 >> > ln -s ttyUSB0 /dev/ttyd0 >> > minicom >> >> On Thu, 27 Apr 2017 20:33:59 -0400, Paul Bucalo wrote: >> >> > You said you are also using Linux. What flavor of Linux are you >> > running that uses ttyd instead of ttyS for serial devices? I only >> > know >> > of BSD/*nix that uses that device designation. >> >> I think he's done that for minicom default reasons, not Linux reasons. >> You can override it (of course) to point at whatever device you like, >> the caveat being that USB serial devices tend to dynamically jump all >> over the place (unless there is some udev magic). >> >> -- >> Regards, >>Daryl Tester >>Handcrafted Computers Pty. Ltd. >> > >
Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB
I think what we need is a video showing TS-DOS (preferably in ROM) or mcomm in
action; I don't know why anyone would want to fool with terminal programs these
days (especially at 300 baud ;-) with so many better alternatives around unless
there were a special reason.
As John pointed out, LaddieAlpha (the 'server')works with all three platforms.
For actually logging into a 'NIX system (as opposed to transferring file) HTERM
is a Telcom replacement that uses hardware handshaking to get around XON/XOFF
issues (and run faster).
BTW, AFAIK you can't transfer 'real' .BA files with terminal programs or the
method below, only plain text .DO versions (although of course they may be
confusingly mislabelled as .BA) That's caused a lot of confusion and crashes if
they're not renamed during the transfer (although I believe LaddieAlpha also
takes care of that issue.)
m
- Original Message -
From: Roger Mullins
To: Model 100 Discussion
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 10:59 AM
Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial
to USB
That cable should work fine for you - all I do is go into BASIC on the M100
and type
new
load"com:38n1e"
...then launch minicom on my Linux box and use 'send file' and select the .BA
(or whatever) file that I've downloaded. Actually I just realized I've never
tried it in reverse but I suppose that would work as well.
-Roger
On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 7:16 AM, Paul Bucalo wrote:
Roger, what I want to accomplish at this time is what you are doing. I
download a slew of programs from old archives and I haven't a means of getting
them into my M100 with the hardware I have now. Today I will order the Belkin
cable. At $2 bucks and shipping it's worth having around.
I appreciate all the comments and suggestions offered up here. Resurrecting
my M100 is totally about spending time in the past. I don't need this to work
for any project or importance. The M100 was my first working computer. It was
the late 80s. I was a Property and Casualty Insurance Agent in a small agency,
looking for an automated means of contact management. It worked. It worked
well. So I look forward to playing around with the options given. It's not the
destination that I look forward to, but how much I can learn on the way there.
Forward to the Past! :)
-Original Message-
From: Roger Mullins
To: Model 100 Discussion
Sent: Fri, Apr 28, 2017 3:11 am
Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif
Serial to USB
Right, that's what it takes for minicom to work properly. My distro is
actually a hard drive install of Puppy - I have an ancient HP laptop and Puppy
was the only one that could find my particular Broadcom wireless adapter.
Anyhow, that cable works great for no more than I do with it, which is
basically transferring downloaded files to my M100.
Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
Original message
From: Daryl Tester
Date: 04/27/2017 9:06 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: m100@lists.bitchin100.com
Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif
Serial to USB
Roger wrote:
> I also use Linux, running minicom to communicate with my M100 on
> ttyd0. From the command line:
>
> rm /dev/ttyd0
> ln -s ttyUSB0 /dev/ttyd0
> minicom
On Thu, 27 Apr 2017 20:33:59 -0400, Paul Bucalo wrote:
> You said you are also using Linux. What flavor of Linux are you
> running that uses ttyd instead of ttyS for serial devices? I only
> know
> of BSD/*nix that uses that device designation.
I think he's done that for minicom default reasons, not Linux reasons.
You can override it (of course) to point at whatever device you like,
the caveat being that USB serial devices tend to dynamically jump all
over the place (unless there is some udev magic).
--
Regards,
Daryl Tester
Handcrafted Computers Pty. Ltd.
Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB
That cable should work fine for you - all I do is go into BASIC on the M100 and type new load"com:38n1e" ...then launch minicom on my Linux box and use 'send file' and select the .BA (or whatever) file that I've downloaded. Actually I just realized I've never tried it in reverse but I suppose that would work as well. -Roger On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 7:16 AM, Paul Bucalo wrote: > Roger, what I want to accomplish at this time is what you are doing. I > download a slew of programs from old archives and I haven't a means of > getting them into my M100 with the hardware I have now. Today I will order > the Belkin cable. At $2 bucks and shipping it's worth having around. > > I appreciate all the comments and suggestions offered up here. > Resurrecting my M100 is totally about spending time in the past. I don't > need this to work for any project or importance. The M100 was my first > working computer. It was the late 80s. I was a Property and Casualty > Insurance Agent in a small agency, looking for an automated means of > contact management. It worked. It worked well. So I look forward to playing > around with the options given. It's not the destination that I look forward > to, but how much I can learn on the way there. Forward to the Past! :) > > > -Original Message- > From: Roger Mullins > To: Model 100 Discussion > Sent: Fri, Apr 28, 2017 3:11 am > Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif > Serial to USB > > Right, that's what it takes for minicom to work properly. My distro is > actually a hard drive install of Puppy - I have an ancient HP laptop and > Puppy was the only one that could find my particular Broadcom wireless > adapter. > > Anyhow, that cable works great for no more than I do with it, which is > basically transferring downloaded files to my M100. > > > Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device > > > Original message ---- > From: Daryl Tester > Date: 04/27/2017 9:06 PM (GMT-05:00) > To: m100@lists.bitchin100.com > Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif > Serial to USB > > Roger wrote: > > > I also use Linux, running minicom to communicate with my M100 on > > ttyd0. From the command line: > > > > rm /dev/ttyd0 > > ln -s ttyUSB0 /dev/ttyd0 > > minicom > > On Thu, 27 Apr 2017 20:33:59 -0400, Paul Bucalo wrote: > > > You said you are also using Linux. What flavor of Linux are you > > running that uses ttyd instead of ttyS for serial devices? I only > > know > > of BSD/*nix that uses that device designation. > > I think he's done that for minicom default reasons, not Linux reasons. > You can override it (of course) to point at whatever device you like, > the caveat being that USB serial devices tend to dynamically jump all > over the place (unless there is some udev magic). > > -- > Regards, >Daryl Tester >Handcrafted Computers Pty. Ltd. >
Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB
Roger, what I want to accomplish at this time is what you are doing. I download a slew of programs from old archives and I haven't a means of getting them into my M100 with the hardware I have now. Today I will order the Belkin cable. At $2 bucks and shipping it's worth having around. I appreciate all the comments and suggestions offered up here. Resurrecting my M100 is totally about spending time in the past. I don't need this to work for any project or importance. The M100 was my first working computer. It was the late 80s. I was a Property and Casualty Insurance Agent in a small agency, looking for an automated means of contact management. It worked. It worked well. So I look forward to playing around with the options given. It's not the destination that I look forward to, but how much I can learn on the way there. Forward to the Past! :) -Original Message- From: Roger Mullins To: Model 100 Discussion Sent: Fri, Apr 28, 2017 3:11 am Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB Right, that's what it takes for minicom to work properly. My distro is actually a hard drive install of Puppy - I have an ancient HP laptop and Puppy was the only one that could find my particular Broadcom wireless adapter. Anyhow, that cable works great for no more than I do with it, which is basically transferring downloaded files to my M100. Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device Original message From: Daryl Tester Date: 04/27/2017 9:06 PM (GMT-05:00) To: m100@lists.bitchin100.com Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB Roger wrote: > I also use Linux, running minicom to communicate with my M100 on > ttyd0. From the command line: > > rm /dev/ttyd0 > ln -s ttyUSB0 /dev/ttyd0 > minicom On Thu, 27 Apr 2017 20:33:59 -0400, Paul Bucalo wrote: > You said you are also using Linux. What flavor of Linux are you > running that uses ttyd instead of ttyS for serial devices? I only > know > of BSD/*nix that uses that device designation. I think he's done that for minicom default reasons, not Linux reasons. You can override it (of course) to point at whatever device you like, the caveat being that USB serial devices tend to dynamically jump all over the place (unless there is some udev magic). -- Regards, Daryl Tester Handcrafted Computers Pty. Ltd.
Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB
On Thu, 27 Apr 2017 22:23:09 -0400, Roger Mullins wrote: Right, that's what it takes for minicom to work properly. No probs. /etc/minicom/minirc.dfl is where the defaults are kept, and if your run "minicom -s" as root you can set up the system wide defaults (or there's a local config file that can override the settings). -- Regards, Daryl Tester Handcrafted Computers Pty. Ltd.
Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB
Right, that's what it takes for minicom to work properly. My distro is actually a hard drive install of Puppy - I have an ancient HP laptop and Puppy was the only one that could find my particular Broadcom wireless adapter. Anyhow, that cable works great for no more than I do with it, which is basically transferring downloaded files to my M100. Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device Original message From: Daryl Tester Date: 04/27/2017 9:06 PM (GMT-05:00) To: m100@lists.bitchin100.com Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB Roger wrote: > I also use Linux, running minicom to communicate with my M100 on > ttyd0. From the command line: > > rm /dev/ttyd0 > ln -s ttyUSB0 /dev/ttyd0 > minicom On Thu, 27 Apr 2017 20:33:59 -0400, Paul Bucalo wrote: > You said you are also using Linux. What flavor of Linux are you > running that uses ttyd instead of ttyS for serial devices? I only > know > of BSD/*nix that uses that device designation. I think he's done that for minicom default reasons, not Linux reasons. You can override it (of course) to point at whatever device you like, the caveat being that USB serial devices tend to dynamically jump all over the place (unless there is some udev magic). -- Regards, Daryl Tester Handcrafted Computers Pty. Ltd.
Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB
On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 6:34 PM, Brian White wrote: > Working way too hard on these serial cables. > > Monoprice 479 works with no adapters, and any old usb adapter you want, > cheap pl2302 no-name are fine, and dlplus on linux is not merely free but > small and minimal requirements to build or run. > > The only thing that cable isn't good for is HTERM, because that cable > loops back rts/cts, but HTERM is the only software anywhere that even uses > rts/cts on a M100. > > Well, he is communicating to a Linux box. That's why I mentioned HTERM, but if you're not using the model T as a terminal, maybe not all that interesting. But I don't know why you'd by a null modem cable that doesn't swap RTS and CTS? > What I don't know is, maybe laddie alpha or one of the other tpdd servers > has more/better/different features than dlplus. > > For instance, subdirectories? Fake sector-level access aka disk images? > Ability to copy and then restore the full utility disk image? (well, I know > none of them have that or else we would have downloadable utility disk > images) I don't know what other possible features might exist, I just > assume that different tpdd servers probably have different features just > like different dos's do. > > Yes. I don't think I added subdirectories to DLPlus. Also, I don't think I implemented the SEEK (random access) extension, or safer no-crash .BA/.DO handling. I maintain both DLPlus and LaddieAlpha, but since LaddieAlpha is cross platform I only spend time on it, if any. -- John.
Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB
Bingo. Thanks, Brian. -Original Message- From: Brian White To: Model 100 Discussion Sent: Thu, Apr 27, 2017 9:34 pm Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB Working way too hard on these serial cables. Monoprice 479 works with no adapters, and any old usb adapter you want, cheap pl2302 no-name are fine, and dlplus on linux is not merely free but small and minimal requirements to build or run. The only thing that cable isn't good for is HTERM, because that cable loops back rts/cts, but HTERM is the only software anywhere that even uses rts/cts on a M100. $2 done. No adapters on either end, and a plug that sticks out the least. What I don't know is, maybe laddie alpha or one of the other tpdd servers has more/better/different features than dlplus. For instance, subdirectories? Fake sector-level access aka disk images? Ability to copy and then restore the full utility disk image? (well, I know none of them have that or else we would have downloadable utility disk images) I don't know what other possible features might exist, I just assume that different tpdd servers probably have different features just like different dos's do. -- bkw On Apr 27, 2017 8:39 PM, "Paul Bucalo" wrote: Ah. I only scanned the article, and read the Windows reference and Win32, .NET needed. I have mono already installed. I'll go back give it a thorough read. Thanks, John! -Original Message- From: John R. Hogerhuis To: Model 100 Discussion Sent: Thu, Apr 27, 2017 8:22 pm Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 5:15 PM, Paul Bucalo wrote: Hmm...well, LaddieAplha is out, because I only run Windows in a VM, which I rarely use, and I have no interest in developing a greater need for the O/S. The other methods are quite interesting. Actually LaddieAlpha runs fine on Linux. No VM required, it runs on mono. I actually develop it under Linux. This lets me support one version that runs cross platform. -- John.
Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB
Working way too hard on these serial cables. Monoprice 479 works with no adapters, and any old usb adapter you want, cheap pl2302 no-name are fine, and dlplus on linux is not merely free but small and minimal requirements to build or run. The only thing that cable isn't good for is HTERM, because that cable loops back rts/cts, but HTERM is the only software anywhere that even uses rts/cts on a M100. $2 done. No adapters on either end, and a plug that sticks out the least. What I don't know is, maybe laddie alpha or one of the other tpdd servers has more/better/different features than dlplus. For instance, subdirectories? Fake sector-level access aka disk images? Ability to copy and then restore the full utility disk image? (well, I know none of them have that or else we would have downloadable utility disk images) I don't know what other possible features might exist, I just assume that different tpdd servers probably have different features just like different dos's do. -- bkw On Apr 27, 2017 8:39 PM, "Paul Bucalo" wrote: > Ah. I only scanned the article, and read the Windows reference and Win32, > .NET needed. I have mono already installed. I'll go back give it a thorough > read. Thanks, John! > > > -Original Message- > From: John R. Hogerhuis > To: Model 100 Discussion > Sent: Thu, Apr 27, 2017 8:22 pm > Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif > Serial to USB > > > > On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 5:15 PM, Paul Bucalo wrote: > > Hmm...well, LaddieAplha is out, because I only run Windows in a VM, which > I rarely use, and I have no interest in developing a greater need for the > O/S. The other methods are quite interesting. > > > Actually LaddieAlpha runs fine on Linux. No VM required, it runs on mono. > I actually develop it under Linux. > > This lets me support one version that runs cross platform. > > -- John. >
Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB
Ah. I see. I haven't worked with minicom before. The last time I tried to connect the M100 to a PC was when I had a SuperROM with Disk+. That was a long time ago. Thanks for clarifying, Daryl. -Original Message- From: Daryl Tester To: m100 Sent: Thu, Apr 27, 2017 9:06 pm Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB Roger wrote: > I also use Linux, running minicom to communicate with my M100 on > ttyd0. From the command line: > > rm /dev/ttyd0 > ln -s ttyUSB0 /dev/ttyd0 > minicom On Thu, 27 Apr 2017 20:33:59 -0400, Paul Bucalo wrote: > You said you are also using Linux. What flavor of Linux are you > running that uses ttyd instead of ttyS for serial devices? I only > know > of BSD/*nix that uses that device designation. I think he's done that for minicom default reasons, not Linux reasons. You can override it (of course) to point at whatever device you like, the caveat being that USB serial devices tend to dynamically jump all over the place (unless there is some udev magic). -- Regards, Daryl Tester Handcrafted Computers Pty. Ltd.
Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB
Roger wrote: I also use Linux, running minicom to communicate with my M100 on ttyd0. From the command line: rm /dev/ttyd0 ln -s ttyUSB0 /dev/ttyd0 minicom On Thu, 27 Apr 2017 20:33:59 -0400, Paul Bucalo wrote: You said you are also using Linux. What flavor of Linux are you running that uses ttyd instead of ttyS for serial devices? I only know of BSD/*nix that uses that device designation. I think he's done that for minicom default reasons, not Linux reasons. You can override it (of course) to point at whatever device you like, the caveat being that USB serial devices tend to dynamically jump all over the place (unless there is some udev magic). -- Regards, Daryl Tester Handcrafted Computers Pty. Ltd.
Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB
Ah. I only scanned the article, and read the Windows reference and Win32, .NET needed. I have mono already installed. I'll go back give it a thorough read. Thanks, John! -Original Message- From: John R. Hogerhuis To: Model 100 Discussion Sent: Thu, Apr 27, 2017 8:22 pm Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 5:15 PM, Paul Bucalo wrote: Hmm...well, LaddieAplha is out, because I only run Windows in a VM, which I rarely use, and I have no interest in developing a greater need for the O/S. The other methods are quite interesting. Actually LaddieAlpha runs fine on Linux. No VM required, it runs on mono. I actually develop it under Linux. This lets me support one version that runs cross platform. -- John.
Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB
Two bucks? And it works? I can't buy the ends and cable for that little!
You said you are also using Linux. What flavor of Linux are you running that
uses ttyd instead of ttyS for serial devices? I only know of BSD/*nix that uses
that device designation.
-Original Message-
From: Roger
To: m100
Sent: Thu, Apr 27, 2017 8:08 pm
Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial
to USB
Hi all!
I'm a little late to the party here but this is the null modem cable
that I got from Monoprice a while back. It works great with aBelkin
USB->serial adapter, and it was under two bucks!
https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10212&cs_id=1021205&p_id=479&seq=1&format=2
I also use Linux, running minicom to communicate with my M100 onttyd0.
From the command line:
rm /dev/ttyd0
ln -s ttyUSB0 /dev/ttyd0
minicom
-Roger
On 04/27/2017 06:54 PM, Paul Bucalo wrote:
I was going to bring it up. Before Iposted I saw a reference
online to using PuTTY. I'll try allthe terminal connection options
to see what works best forme. I work at the command line often, but
with a fadingmemory I will work with GUI front ends and apps if
it's notmuch more work. Thanks, Alex.
-Original Message-
From: Alex ...
To: Model 100 Discussion
Sent: Thu, Apr 27, 2017 5:45 pm
Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem
Cables, specif Serial to USB
The Linux version of PuTTY works nicelywith serial ports.
On Apr 27, 2017 17:31, "Paul Bucalo"
wrote:
Thanks,Jonathon. I'm good on diagrams--I still have the
original manual, plus what I have scrounged
through Club 100 and after-market books. At
least I know 'your' diagram really works.
-OriginalMessage-
From: Jonathan Yuen
To: Model 100 Discussion
Sent: Thu, Apr 27, 2017 2:23 pm
Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full
Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB
Hello again,
I found some notes and I hope it is the one I
used:
DB9 DB25
Rx 2 Tx 2
Tx 3 Rx 3
Dtr 4 Dsr 6
Gnd 5 Gnd 7
Dsr 6 Dtr 20
Rts 7 Cts 5
Cts 8 Rts 4
1 8 I think I wrote DCD for this pin but I'm
pretty sloppy writing.
Jonathan
jonathan.y...@mykopat.slu.se
Från: M100 [m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com]
för Paul Bucalo [pm...@aol.com]
Skickat: den 27 april 2017 19:48
Till: m100@lists.bitchin100.com
Ämne: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null
Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB
I just did a search on eBay for a Belkin
F3x171-10. Only listing that came up was selling
for $50. Yeah, not going to happen. I'll lookaround to
see if anyone sells the cable for areasonable price,
but chances are high I'll endup making up a DB25-to-DB9
cable set. I surewish I hadn't thrown out the one I
made yearsago, back when I was actively working with my
M100. Live and (probably never) learn.
I'll give HTERM a try. I had forgotten about
utf-8 coding. Thanks for the reminder.
Thanks, John.
-Original Message-
Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB
On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 5:15 PM, Paul Bucalo wrote: > Hmm...well, LaddieAplha is out, because I only run Windows in a VM, which > I rarely use, and I have no interest in developing a greater need for the > O/S. The other methods are quite interesting. > Actually LaddieAlpha runs fine on Linux. No VM required, it runs on mono. I actually develop it under Linux. This lets me support one version that runs cross platform. -- John.
Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB
HTERM looks like a good one for me. Thanks, John. -Original Message- From: John R. Hogerhuis To: Model 100 Discussion Sent: Thu, Apr 27, 2017 7:15 pm Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 11:08 AM Paul Bucalo wrote: I just did a search on eBay for a Belkin F3x171-10. Only listing that came up was selling for $50. Yeah, not going to happen. I'll look around to see if anyone sells the cable for a reasonable price, but chances are high I'll end up making up a DB25-to-DB9 cable set. I sure wish I hadn't thrown out the one I made years ago, back when I was actively working with my M100. Live and (probably never) learn. Yeah all the ones I've bought have been $6-$10. Super nice though. I'll give HTERM a try. I had forgotten about utf-8 coding. Thanks for the reminder. Thanks, John. You also need to set up a termcap on the Linux side. I've done used full screen applications like vim and mutt without issue. http://bitchin100.com/wiki/index.php?title=HTERM -- John.
Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB
Hmm...well, LaddieAplha is out, because I only run Windows in a VM, which I rarely use, and I have no interest in developing a greater need for the O/S. The other methods are quite interesting. My TPDD died on me a couple of years ago. The only way I have of getting software onto the M100 is by typing in the program or using a cassette recorder. The null modem would allow me to transfer what I already have stored on the network server, through the use of a networked host PC connected to the M100. If there is a simpler, better way I'm all ears. I'll do some reading up on the links you provided. Thanks, Mike. Appreciated. -Original Message- From: Mike Stein To: Model 100 Discussion Sent: Thu, Apr 27, 2017 7:10 pm Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB Why not use TS-DOS and LaddieAlpha? http://bitchin100.com/wiki/index.php?title=LaddieCon Or one of the various other methods: http://bitchin100.com/wiki/index.php?title=Model_T_File_Transfer Could even use Bluetooth and forget about that null-modem cable ;-) m - Original Message - From: Paul Bucalo To: m100@lists.bitchin100.com Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2017 6:54 PM Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB I was going to bring it up. Before I posted I saw a reference online to using PuTTY. I'll try all the terminal connection options to see what works best for me. I work at the command line often, but with a fading memory I will work with GUI front ends and apps if it's not much more work. Thanks, Alex. -Original Message- From: Alex ... To: Model 100 Discussion Sent: Thu, Apr 27, 2017 5:45 pm Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB The Linux version of PuTTY works nicely with serial ports. On Apr 27, 2017 17:31, "Paul Bucalo" wrote: Thanks, Jonathon. I'm good on diagrams--I still have the original manual, plus what I have scrounged through Club 100 and after-market books. At least I know 'your' diagram really works. -Original Message- From: Jonathan Yuen To: Model 100 Discussion Sent: Thu, Apr 27, 2017 2:23 pm Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB Hello again, I found some notes and I hope it is the one I used: DB9 DB25 Rx 2 Tx 2 Tx 3 Rx 3 Dtr 4 Dsr 6 Gnd 5 Gnd 7 Dsr 6 Dtr 20 Rts 7 Cts 5 Cts 8 Rts 4 1 8 I think I wrote DCD for this pin but I'm pretty sloppy writing. Jonathan jonathan.y...@mykopat.slu.se Från: M100 [m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com] för Paul Bucalo [pm...@aol.com] Skickat: den 27 april 2017 19:48 Till: m100@lists.bitchin100.com Ämne: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB I just did a search on eBay for a Belkin F3x171-10. Only listing that came up was selling for $50. Yeah, not going to happen. I'll look around to see if anyone sells the cable for a reasonable price, but chances are high I'll end up making up a DB25-to-DB9 cable set. I sure wish I hadn't thrown out the one I made years ago, back when I was actively working with my M100. Live and (probably never) learn. I'll give HTERM a try. I had forgotten about utf-8 coding. Thanks for the reminder. Thanks, John. -Original Message- From: John R. Hogerhuis To: Model 100 Discussion Sent: Thu, Apr 27, 2017 1:23 pm Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 10:10 AM, Paul Bucalo mailto:pm...@aol.com>> wrote: I was hoping for a rationale based on experience, i.e., USB works well or not at all. Doesn't really matter much. Most likely I will make up a new cable using DB25-to-DB9. My favorite cable is the full-null belkin serial laplink cable, if you can find one. Never had a problem with any of them, ever. f3x171-10, but they are hard to find these days though they were very cheap for a while. To use with Model T, you need to have a db-25 gender changer. But generally, you need a full-null cable. I wouldn't go with 3 wire cables since you may want to experiment with hardware flow control (HTERM, my bare bones / dumb terminal to Linux) given that you hook to Linux which overruns the Model T 64-byte serial buffer when using software flow control. Also Linux utilities throw in UTF-8 and lots of formatting codes. HTERM maps to/from utf-8 and strips ANSI color escapes, stuff like that. One thing to be aware of is some cables bump into the Model100 case and keep it from mating properly. You may have to shave
Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB
Hi all!
I'm a little late to the party here but this is the null modem cable
that I got from Monoprice a while back. It works great with a Belkin
USB->serial adapter, and it was under two bucks!
https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10212&cs_id=1021205&p_id=479&seq=1&format=2
I also use Linux, running minicom to communicate with my M100 on ttyd0.
From the command line:
rm /dev/ttyd0
ln -s ttyUSB0 /dev/ttyd0
minicom
-Roger
On 04/27/2017 06:54 PM, Paul Bucalo wrote:
I was going to bring it up. Before I posted I saw a reference online
to using PuTTY. I'll try all the terminal connection options to see
what works best for me. I work at the command line often, but with a
fading memory I will work with GUI front ends and apps if it's not
much more work. Thanks, Alex.
-Original Message-
From: Alex ...
To: Model 100 Discussion
Sent: Thu, Apr 27, 2017 5:45 pm
Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif
Serial to USB
The Linux version of PuTTY works nicely with serial ports.
On Apr 27, 2017 17:31, "Paul Bucalo" <mailto:pm...@aol.com>> wrote:
Thanks, Jonathon. I'm good on diagrams--I still have the original
manual, plus what I have scrounged through Club 100 and
after-market books. At least I know 'your' diagram really works.
-Original Message-
From: Jonathan Yuen mailto:jonathan.y...@slu.se>>
To: Model 100 Discussion mailto:m100@lists.bitchin100.com>>
Sent: Thu, Apr 27, 2017 2:23 pm
Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables,
specif Serial to USB
Hello again,
I found some notes and I hope it is the one I used:
DB9 DB25
Rx 2 Tx 2
Tx 3 Rx 3
Dtr 4 Dsr 6
Gnd 5 Gnd 7
Dsr 6 Dtr 20
Rts 7 Cts 5
Cts 8 Rts 4
1 8 I think I wrote DCD for this pin but I'm pretty sloppy
writing.
Jonathan
jonathan.y...@mykopat.slu.se <mailto:jonathan.y...@mykopat.slu.se>
Från: M100 [m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com
<mailto:boun...@lists.bitchin100.com>] för Paul Bucalo
[pm...@aol.com <mailto:pm...@aol.com>]
Skickat: den 27 april 2017 19:48
Till: m100@lists.bitchin100.com <mailto:m100@lists.bitchin100.com>
Ämne: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables,
specif Serial to USB
I just did a search on eBay for a Belkin F3x171-10. Only listing
that came up was selling for $50. Yeah, not going to happen. I'll
look around to see if anyone sells the cable for a reasonable
price, but chances are high I'll end up making up a DB25-to-DB9
cable set. I sure wish I hadn't thrown out the one I made years
ago, back when I was actively working with my M100. Live and
(probably never) learn.
I'll give HTERM a try. I had forgotten about utf-8 coding. Thanks
for the reminder.
Thanks, John.
-Original Message-
From: John R. Hogerhuis mailto:jho...@pobox.com>>
To: Model 100 Discussion mailto:m100@lists.bitchin100.com>>
Sent: Thu, Apr 27, 2017 1:23 pm
Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables,
specif Serial to USB
On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 10:10 AM, Paul Bucalo mailto:pm...@aol.com><mailto:pm...@aol.com
<mailto:pm...@aol.com?>>> wrote:
I was hoping for a rationale based on experience, i.e., USB works
well or not at all. Doesn't really matter much. Most likely I will
make up a new cable using DB25-to-DB9.
My favorite cable is the full-null belkin serial laplink cable, if
you can find one. Never had a problem with any of them, ever.
f3x171-10, but they are hard to find these days though they were
very cheap for a while. To use with Model T, you need to have a
db-25 gender changer.
But generally, you need a full-null cable. I wouldn't go with 3
wire cables since you may want to experiment with hardware flow
control (HTERM, my bare bones / dumb terminal to Linux) given that
you hook to Linux which overruns the Model T 64-byte serial buffer
when using software flow control.
Also Linux utilities throw in UTF-8 and lots of formatting codes.
HTERM maps to/from utf-8 and strips ANSI color escapes, stuff like
that.
One thing to be aware of is some cables bump into the Model100
case and keep it from mating properly. You may have to shave some
off the housing to make it fit, or ideally find one that fits into
the space available, after adding the thin-hood gender changer.
USB on the PC side is fine. I recommend only devices with FTDI
chipsets, however (not Prolific). The FTDI drivers generally allow
more configurability which ends up being necessary with TS-DOS
(TS-DOS loves to time-out... remember USB serial devices have a
tendency to delay/collect bytes to "efficiently" send a larger
packet).
-- John.
Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB
On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 11:08 AM Paul Bucalo wrote: > > I just did a search on eBay for a Belkin F3x171-10. Only listing that > came up was selling for $50. Yeah, not going to happen. I'll look around to > see if anyone sells the cable for a reasonable price, but chances are high > I'll end up making up a DB25-to-DB9 cable set. I sure wish I hadn't thrown > out the one I made years ago, back when I was actively working with my > M100. Live and (probably never) learn. > Yeah all the ones I've bought have been $6-$10. Super nice though. > > I'll give HTERM a try. I had forgotten about utf-8 coding. Thanks for the > reminder. > > Thanks, John. > You also need to set up a termcap on the Linux side. I've done used full screen applications like vim and mutt without issue. http://bitchin100.com/wiki/index.php?title=HTERM -- John.
Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB
Why not use TS-DOS and LaddieAlpha?
http://bitchin100.com/wiki/index.php?title=LaddieCon
Or one of the various other methods:
http://bitchin100.com/wiki/index.php?title=Model_T_File_Transfer
Could even use Bluetooth and forget about that null-modem cable ;-)
m
- Original Message -
From: Paul Bucalo
To: m100@lists.bitchin100.com
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2017 6:54 PM
Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial
to USB
I was going to bring it up. Before I posted I saw a reference online to using
PuTTY. I'll try all the terminal connection options to see what works best for
me. I work at the command line often, but with a fading memory I will work with
GUI front ends and apps if it's not much more work. Thanks, Alex.
-Original Message-
From: Alex ...
To: Model 100 Discussion
Sent: Thu, Apr 27, 2017 5:45 pm
Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial
to USB
The Linux version of PuTTY works nicely with serial ports.
On Apr 27, 2017 17:31, "Paul Bucalo" wrote:
Thanks, Jonathon. I'm good on diagrams--I still have the original manual,
plus what I have scrounged through Club 100 and after-market books. At least I
know 'your' diagram really works.
-Original Message-
From: Jonathan Yuen
To: Model 100 Discussion
Sent: Thu, Apr 27, 2017 2:23 pm
Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif
Serial to USB
Hello again,
I found some notes and I hope it is the one I used:
DB9 DB25
Rx 2 Tx 2
Tx 3 Rx 3
Dtr 4 Dsr 6
Gnd 5 Gnd 7
Dsr 6 Dtr 20
Rts 7 Cts 5
Cts 8 Rts 4
1 8 I think I wrote DCD for this pin but I'm pretty sloppy writing.
Jonathan
jonathan.y...@mykopat.slu.se
Från: M100 [m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com] för Paul Bucalo
[pm...@aol.com]
Skickat: den 27 april 2017 19:48
Till: m100@lists.bitchin100.com
Ämne: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial
to USB
I just did a search on eBay for a Belkin F3x171-10. Only listing that came
up was selling for $50. Yeah, not going to happen. I'll look around to see if
anyone sells the cable for a reasonable price, but chances are high I'll end up
making up a DB25-to-DB9 cable set. I sure wish I hadn't thrown out the one I
made years ago, back when I was actively working with my M100. Live and
(probably never) learn.
I'll give HTERM a try. I had forgotten about utf-8 coding. Thanks for the
reminder.
Thanks, John.
-Original Message-
From: John R. Hogerhuis
To: Model 100 Discussion
Sent: Thu, Apr 27, 2017 1:23 pm
Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif
Serial to USB
On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 10:10 AM, Paul Bucalo
mailto:pm...@aol.com>> wrote:
I was hoping for a rationale based on experience, i.e., USB works well or
not at all. Doesn't really matter much. Most likely I will make up a new cable
using DB25-to-DB9.
My favorite cable is the full-null belkin serial laplink cable, if you can
find one. Never had a problem with any of them, ever. f3x171-10, but they are
hard to find these days though they were very cheap for a while. To use with
Model T, you need to have a db-25 gender changer.
But generally, you need a full-null cable. I wouldn't go with 3 wire cables
since you may want to experiment with hardware flow control (HTERM, my bare
bones / dumb terminal to Linux) given that you hook to Linux which overruns the
Model T 64-byte serial buffer when using software flow control.
Also Linux utilities throw in UTF-8 and lots of formatting codes. HTERM
maps to/from utf-8 and strips ANSI color escapes, stuff like that.
One thing to be aware of is some cables bump into the Model100 case and
keep it from mating properly. You may have to shave some off the housing to
make it fit, or ideally find one that fits into the space available, after
adding the thin-hood gender changer.
USB on the PC side is fine. I recommend only devices with FTDI chipsets,
however (not Prolific). The FTDI drivers generally allow more configurability
which ends up being necessary with TS-DOS (TS-DOS loves to time-out... remember
USB serial devices have a tendency to delay/collect bytes to "efficiently" send
a larger packet).
-- John.
Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB
I was going to bring it up. Before I posted I saw a reference online to using PuTTY. I'll try all the terminal connection options to see what works best for me. I work at the command line often, but with a fading memory I will work with GUI front ends and apps if it's not much more work. Thanks, Alex. -Original Message- From: Alex ... To: Model 100 Discussion Sent: Thu, Apr 27, 2017 5:45 pm Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB The Linux version of PuTTY works nicely with serial ports. On Apr 27, 2017 17:31, "Paul Bucalo" wrote: Thanks, Jonathon. I'm good on diagrams--I still have the original manual, plus what I have scrounged through Club 100 and after-market books. At least I know 'your' diagram really works. -Original Message- From: Jonathan Yuen To: Model 100 Discussion Sent: Thu, Apr 27, 2017 2:23 pm Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB Hello again, I found some notes and I hope it is the one I used: DB9 DB25 Rx 2 Tx 2 Tx 3 Rx 3 Dtr 4 Dsr 6 Gnd 5Gnd 7 Dsr 6 Dtr 20 Rts 7 Cts 5 Cts 8Rts 4 1 8 I think I wrote DCD for this pin but I'm pretty sloppy writing. Jonathan jonathan.y...@mykopat.slu.se Från: M100 [m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com] för Paul Bucalo [pm...@aol.com] Skickat: den 27 april 2017 19:48 Till: m100@lists.bitchin100.com Ämne: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB I just did a search on eBay for a Belkin F3x171-10. Only listing that came up was selling for $50. Yeah, not going to happen. I'll look around to see if anyone sells the cable for a reasonable price, but chances are high I'll end up making up a DB25-to-DB9 cable set. I sure wish I hadn't thrown out the one I made years ago, back when I was actively working with my M100. Live and (probably never) learn. I'll give HTERM a try. I had forgotten about utf-8 coding. Thanks for the reminder. Thanks, John. -Original Message- From: John R. Hogerhuis To: Model 100 Discussion Sent: Thu, Apr 27, 2017 1:23 pm Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 10:10 AM, Paul Bucalo mailto:pm...@aol.com>> wrote: I was hoping for a rationale based on experience, i.e., USB works well or not at all. Doesn't really matter much. Most likely I will make up a new cable using DB25-to-DB9. My favorite cable is the full-null belkin serial laplink cable, if you can find one. Never had a problem with any of them, ever. f3x171-10, but they are hard to find these days though they were very cheap for a while. To use with Model T, you need to have a db-25 gender changer. But generally, you need a full-null cable. I wouldn't go with 3 wire cables since you may want to experiment with hardware flow control (HTERM, my bare bones / dumb terminal to Linux) given that you hook to Linux which overruns the Model T 64-byte serial buffer when using software flow control. Also Linux utilities throw in UTF-8 and lots of formatting codes. HTERM maps to/from utf-8 and strips ANSI color escapes, stuff like that. One thing to be aware of is some cables bump into the Model100 case and keep it from mating properly. You may have to shave some off the housing to make it fit, or ideally find one that fits into the space available, after adding the thin-hood gender changer. USB on the PC side is fine. I recommend only devices with FTDI chipsets, however (not Prolific). The FTDI drivers generally allow more configurability which ends up being necessary with TS-DOS (TS-DOS loves to time-out... remember USB serial devices have a tendency to delay/collect bytes to "efficiently" send a larger packet). -- John.
Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB
I forgot to mention before that I have a Model B RP (original single core w/ Ethernet port). Since you have managed to get it to communicate with the M100, I may end up pestering you for info to get that setup as a networked serve that connects to the M100. I have enough rabbit holes for the time being. :) -Original Message- From: Jonathan Yuen To: Model 100 Discussion Sent: Thu, Apr 27, 2017 2:07 pm Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB Hello, Sorry, I thought you were using a real UART on the PC. Remember the 8250? I use USB to RS-232 adapters, and haven't connected to a real RS232 port on the PC side for maybe 10 years. One which I've used is just a USB to serial adapter that I generally use to connect to a Raspberry Pi. It does 0-5 volts (not real RS-232) and I have to connect it via a level-shifter to connect to the m100. When I plug it in to my computer, lsusb reports a ID 067b:2303 Prolific Technology, Inc. PL2303 Serial Port. I can connect it directly to the Pi, and there is even a 5v line so I can power the older Pis directly off the adapter. The level shifter I've used when connecting to an M100 is a MAX232N chip with 5 capacitors to boost the 0-5 to enough to drive the M100 (I've never actually measured the voltage). I wouldn't recommend this setup since there are so many pieces but I had a lot of the bits sitting around. The PL2303 adaptor has NO handshaking so I have to jumper things on the M100 side (CTS to RTS etc). But since it was originally for a pi, there was no handhaking there, either. It did work OK with dlink if you hold the speed down. The other one I use I bought off of ebay (in China). I think it has a FTDI chip in it. lsusb reports 0403:6015 Future Technology Devices International, Ltd Bridge (I2C/SPI/UART/FIFO). This one can drive the M100 with just a null modem (which I made) that is a DB9 to DB25. I think I made the adapter with the 'normal' handshaking but I'd have to pull out an ohmmeter to check the connections since the DB25 end was sealed and I don't know where my notes are. I just checked ebay but it was so long ago it has fallen off the list of puchases My recollection is that you probably want the FTDI chip. A lot of places talk about USB-Serial but the serial out of these is not enough to drive the M100. I think I looked specifically for FTDI when I bought the second adapter. I seem to remember that the FTDI chip adapters cost a little more than the PL2303 ones. Jonathan jonathan.y...@mykopat.slu.se Från: M100 [m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com] för Paul Bucalo [pm...@aol.com] Skickat: den 27 april 2017 19:10 Till: m100@lists.bitchin100.com Ämne: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB I was hoping for a rationale based on experience, i.e., USB works well or not at all. Doesn't really matter much. Most likely I will make up a new cable using DB25-to-DB9. While I haven't try minicom or gtkterm, I like that the latter allows me to set my preferences through a settings file. Saves me from having to use key commands. And the DE environment on the desktops is GTK+. I will try both and see where my preference lies. Thanks, Jonathon. -Original Message- From: Jonathan Yuen To: Model 100 Discussion Sent: Thu, Apr 27, 2017 12:55 pm Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB Hello DB25 and DB9.Real serial ports!!! I tend to use minicom for emulating a serial terminal though I did play with screen for a while. Minicom sets the baud rate etc. jonathan.y...@mykopat.slu.se<mailto:jonathan.y...@mykopat.slu.se> Från: M100 [m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com<mailto:boun...@lists.bitchin100.com>] för Paul Bucalo [pm...@aol.com<mailto:pm...@aol.com>] Skickat: den 27 april 2017 15:17 Till: m100@lists.bitchin100.com<mailto:m100@lists.bitchin100.com> Ämne: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB I would like to use a spare PC workstation as a repository for files and programs, to be accessed by a Model 100. I used to have a null modem cable I made up years ago. (Alas, that got thrown out in the last Great Hardware Purge.) I've read about the use of a null modem cable with a USB connector at the PC end. The workstations I could choose from all have either DB25 or DB9 serial ports, so this is a matter of what works best/easier in syncing. All my computers run under flavors of Ubuntu Linux. I do run Windows in a VM on a couple of PCs, but really have no interest in connecting via a VM and to Windows. (I understand gtkterm is a good terminal choice for the Linux side.) And lastly, in regard to buying a pre-made cable: would I be correct in assuming any product
Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB
The Linux version of PuTTY works nicely with serial ports. On Apr 27, 2017 17:31, "Paul Bucalo" wrote: > Thanks, Jonathon. I'm good on diagrams--I still have the original manual, > plus what I have scrounged through Club 100 and after-market books. At > least I know 'your' diagram really works. > > > > -Original Message- > From: Jonathan Yuen > To: Model 100 Discussion > Sent: Thu, Apr 27, 2017 2:23 pm > Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif > Serial to USB > > Hello again, > > I found some notes and I hope it is the one I used: > > DB9 DB25 > Rx 2 Tx 2 > Tx 3 Rx 3 > Dtr 4 Dsr 6 > Gnd 5 Gnd 7 > Dsr 6 Dtr 20 > Rts 7 Cts 5 > Cts 8 Rts 4 > 1 8 I think I wrote DCD for this pin but I'm pretty sloppy writing. > > Jonathan > > jonathan.y...@mykopat.slu.se > > Från: M100 [m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com] för Paul Bucalo [ > pm...@aol.com] > Skickat: den 27 april 2017 19:48 > Till: m100@lists.bitchin100.com > Ämne: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial > to USB > > I just did a search on eBay for a Belkin F3x171-10. Only listing that came > up was selling for $50. Yeah, not going to happen. I'll look around to see > if anyone sells the cable for a reasonable price, but chances are high I'll > end up making up a DB25-to-DB9 cable set. I sure wish I hadn't thrown out > the one I made years ago, back when I was actively working with my M100. > Live and (probably never) learn. > > I'll give HTERM a try. I had forgotten about utf-8 coding. Thanks for the > reminder. > > Thanks, John. > > -Original Message- > From: John R. Hogerhuis > To: Model 100 Discussion > Sent: Thu, Apr 27, 2017 1:23 pm > Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif > Serial to USB > > > > On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 10:10 AM, Paul Bucalo mailto:pmbuc@ > aol.com >> wrote: > I was hoping for a rationale based on experience, i.e., USB works well or > not at all. Doesn't really matter much. Most likely I will make up a new > cable using DB25-to-DB9. > > > My favorite cable is the full-null belkin serial laplink cable, if you can > find one. Never had a problem with any of them, ever. f3x171-10, but they > are hard to find these days though they were very cheap for a while. To use > with Model T, you need to have a db-25 gender changer. > > But generally, you need a full-null cable. I wouldn't go with 3 wire > cables since you may want to experiment with hardware flow control (HTERM, > my bare bones / dumb terminal to Linux) given that you hook to Linux which > overruns the Model T 64-byte serial buffer when using software flow control. > > Also Linux utilities throw in UTF-8 and lots of formatting codes. HTERM > maps to/from utf-8 and strips ANSI color escapes, stuff like that. > > One thing to be aware of is some cables bump into the Model100 case and > keep it from mating properly. You may have to shave some off the housing to > make it fit, or ideally find one that fits into the space available, after > adding the thin-hood gender changer. > > USB on the PC side is fine. I recommend only devices with FTDI chipsets, > however (not Prolific). The FTDI drivers generally allow more > configurability which ends up being necessary with TS-DOS (TS-DOS loves to > time-out... remember USB serial devices have a tendency to delay/collect > bytes to "efficiently" send a larger packet). > > -- John. >
Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB
Thanks, Jonathon. I'm good on diagrams--I still have the original manual, plus what I have scrounged through Club 100 and after-market books. At least I know 'your' diagram really works. -Original Message- From: Jonathan Yuen To: Model 100 Discussion Sent: Thu, Apr 27, 2017 2:23 pm Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB Hello again, I found some notes and I hope it is the one I used: DB9 DB25 Rx 2 Tx 2 Tx 3 Rx 3 Dtr 4 Dsr 6 Gnd 5Gnd 7 Dsr 6 Dtr 20 Rts 7 Cts 5 Cts 8Rts 4 1 8 I think I wrote DCD for this pin but I'm pretty sloppy writing. Jonathan jonathan.y...@mykopat.slu.se Från: M100 [m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com] för Paul Bucalo [pm...@aol.com] Skickat: den 27 april 2017 19:48 Till: m100@lists.bitchin100.com Ämne: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB I just did a search on eBay for a Belkin F3x171-10. Only listing that came up was selling for $50. Yeah, not going to happen. I'll look around to see if anyone sells the cable for a reasonable price, but chances are high I'll end up making up a DB25-to-DB9 cable set. I sure wish I hadn't thrown out the one I made years ago, back when I was actively working with my M100. Live and (probably never) learn. I'll give HTERM a try. I had forgotten about utf-8 coding. Thanks for the reminder. Thanks, John. -Original Message- From: John R. Hogerhuis To: Model 100 Discussion Sent: Thu, Apr 27, 2017 1:23 pm Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 10:10 AM, Paul Bucalo mailto:pm...@aol.com>> wrote: I was hoping for a rationale based on experience, i.e., USB works well or not at all. Doesn't really matter much. Most likely I will make up a new cable using DB25-to-DB9. My favorite cable is the full-null belkin serial laplink cable, if you can find one. Never had a problem with any of them, ever. f3x171-10, but they are hard to find these days though they were very cheap for a while. To use with Model T, you need to have a db-25 gender changer. But generally, you need a full-null cable. I wouldn't go with 3 wire cables since you may want to experiment with hardware flow control (HTERM, my bare bones / dumb terminal to Linux) given that you hook to Linux which overruns the Model T 64-byte serial buffer when using software flow control. Also Linux utilities throw in UTF-8 and lots of formatting codes. HTERM maps to/from utf-8 and strips ANSI color escapes, stuff like that. One thing to be aware of is some cables bump into the Model100 case and keep it from mating properly. You may have to shave some off the housing to make it fit, or ideally find one that fits into the space available, after adding the thin-hood gender changer. USB on the PC side is fine. I recommend only devices with FTDI chipsets, however (not Prolific). The FTDI drivers generally allow more configurability which ends up being necessary with TS-DOS (TS-DOS loves to time-out... remember USB serial devices have a tendency to delay/collect bytes to "efficiently" send a larger packet). -- John.
Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB
I've done that in the past. Seeing as I threw away all of those 10-25 ft. serial cablesargh...I should be pistol-whipped. :/ -Original Message- From: Jonathan Yuen To: Model 100 Discussion Sent: Thu, Apr 27, 2017 2:10 pm Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB I actually went through the cable box and found a cable with a DB25 that would plug into the M100, cut off what was on the other end, and used an ohmmeter to find what color went to what pin, and soldered it onto a DB-9 to make the null modem cable to plug into the FTDI usb thing. I think I only found one that would plug into the M100, the others had hoods and things that got in the way. jonathan.y...@mykopat.slu.se Från: M100 [m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com] för John R. Hogerhuis [jho...@pobox.com] Skickat: den 27 april 2017 19:23 Till: Model 100 Discussion Ämne: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 10:10 AM, Paul Bucalo mailto:pm...@aol.com>> wrote: I was hoping for a rationale based on experience, i.e., USB works well or not at all. Doesn't really matter much. Most likely I will make up a new cable using DB25-to-DB9. My favorite cable is the full-null belkin serial laplink cable, if you can find one. Never had a problem with any of them, ever. f3x171-10, but they are hard to find these days though they were very cheap for a while. To use with Model T, you need to have a db-25 gender changer. But generally, you need a full-null cable. I wouldn't go with 3 wire cables since you may want to experiment with hardware flow control (HTERM, my bare bones / dumb terminal to Linux) given that you hook to Linux which overruns the Model T 64-byte serial buffer when using software flow control. Also Linux utilities throw in UTF-8 and lots of formatting codes. HTERM maps to/from utf-8 and strips ANSI color escapes, stuff like that. One thing to be aware of is some cables bump into the Model100 case and keep it from mating properly. You may have to shave some off the housing to make it fit, or ideally find one that fits into the space available, after adding the thin-hood gender changer. USB on the PC side is fine. I recommend only devices with FTDI chipsets, however (not Prolific). The FTDI drivers generally allow more configurability which ends up being necessary with TS-DOS (TS-DOS loves to time-out... remember USB serial devices have a tendency to delay/collect bytes to "efficiently" send a larger packet). -- John.
Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB
Thanks for the in-depth reply, Jonathon. You reminded me, once again, why I never should have done The Great Purge two years back. Packratitis is good! I threw away several truck loads to the recycling center. Lots of a ton of 8- and 16-bit cards (serial, parallel, etc.), as well as boxes of cables, and hardware that dated back to 80s, when I had a store front. I knew I would come to regret this. I think I will stick to an RS-232 connection at the PC. One of my workstations is an old quad-core with an on-board serial and parallel port. I still have several Intel Pentium 4 PCs that could be used if I can't get the serial throughout down on the quad. It doesn't matter to me if the PC is a single-core. It only has to be a server to the M100 and accessible from the network. I will keep in mind your experience and advice. Thanks again! ~Paul. -Original Message- From: Jonathan Yuen To: Model 100 Discussion Sent: Thu, Apr 27, 2017 2:07 pm Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB Hello, Sorry, I thought you were using a real UART on the PC. Remember the 8250? I use USB to RS-232 adapters, and haven't connected to a real RS232 port on the PC side for maybe 10 years. One which I've used is just a USB to serial adapter that I generally use to connect to a Raspberry Pi. It does 0-5 volts (not real RS-232) and I have to connect it via a level-shifter to connect to the m100. When I plug it in to my computer, lsusb reports a ID 067b:2303 Prolific Technology, Inc. PL2303 Serial Port. I can connect it directly to the Pi, and there is even a 5v line so I can power the older Pis directly off the adapter. The level shifter I've used when connecting to an M100 is a MAX232N chip with 5 capacitors to boost the 0-5 to enough to drive the M100 (I've never actually measured the voltage). I wouldn't recommend this setup since there are so many pieces but I had a lot of the bits sitting around. The PL2303 adaptor has NO handshaking so I have to jumper things on the M100 side (CTS to RTS etc). But since it was originally for a pi, there was no handhaking there, either. It did work OK with dlink if you hold the speed down. The other one I use I bought off of ebay (in China). I think it has a FTDI chip in it. lsusb reports 0403:6015 Future Technology Devices International, Ltd Bridge (I2C/SPI/UART/FIFO). This one can drive the M100 with just a null modem (which I made) that is a DB9 to DB25. I think I made the adapter with the 'normal' handshaking but I'd have to pull out an ohmmeter to check the connections since the DB25 end was sealed and I don't know where my notes are. I just checked ebay but it was so long ago it has fallen off the list of puchases My recollection is that you probably want the FTDI chip. A lot of places talk about USB-Serial but the serial out of these is not enough to drive the M100. I think I looked specifically for FTDI when I bought the second adapter. I seem to remember that the FTDI chip adapters cost a little more than the PL2303 ones. Jonathan jonathan.y...@mykopat.slu.se Från: M100 [m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com] för Paul Bucalo [pm...@aol.com] Skickat: den 27 april 2017 19:10 Till: m100@lists.bitchin100.com Ämne: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB I was hoping for a rationale based on experience, i.e., USB works well or not at all. Doesn't really matter much. Most likely I will make up a new cable using DB25-to-DB9. While I haven't try minicom or gtkterm, I like that the latter allows me to set my preferences through a settings file. Saves me from having to use key commands. And the DE environment on the desktops is GTK+. I will try both and see where my preference lies. Thanks, Jonathon. -Original Message- From: Jonathan Yuen To: Model 100 Discussion Sent: Thu, Apr 27, 2017 12:55 pm Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB Hello DB25 and DB9.Real serial ports!!! I tend to use minicom for emulating a serial terminal though I did play with screen for a while. Minicom sets the baud rate etc. jonathan.y...@mykopat.slu.se<mailto:jonathan.y...@mykopat.slu.se> Från: M100 [m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com<mailto:boun...@lists.bitchin100.com>] för Paul Bucalo [pm...@aol.com<mailto:pm...@aol.com>] Skickat: den 27 april 2017 15:17 Till: m100@lists.bitchin100.com<mailto:m100@lists.bitchin100.com> Ämne: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB I would like to use a spare PC workstation as a repository for files and programs, to be accessed by a Model 100. I used to have a null modem cable I made up years ago. (Alas, that got thrown out in the last Great Hardware Purge
Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB
Hello again, I found some notes and I hope it is the one I used: DB9DB25 Rx 2 Tx 2 Tx 3 Rx 3 Dtr 4 Dsr 6 Gnd 5Gnd 7 Dsr 6Dtr 20 Rts 7 Cts 5 Cts 8Rts 4 1 8 I think I wrote DCD for this pin but I'm pretty sloppy writing. Jonathan jonathan.y...@mykopat.slu.se Från: M100 [m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com] för Paul Bucalo [pm...@aol.com] Skickat: den 27 april 2017 19:48 Till: m100@lists.bitchin100.com Ämne: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB I just did a search on eBay for a Belkin F3x171-10. Only listing that came up was selling for $50. Yeah, not going to happen. I'll look around to see if anyone sells the cable for a reasonable price, but chances are high I'll end up making up a DB25-to-DB9 cable set. I sure wish I hadn't thrown out the one I made years ago, back when I was actively working with my M100. Live and (probably never) learn. I'll give HTERM a try. I had forgotten about utf-8 coding. Thanks for the reminder. Thanks, John. -Original Message- From: John R. Hogerhuis To: Model 100 Discussion Sent: Thu, Apr 27, 2017 1:23 pm Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 10:10 AM, Paul Bucalo mailto:pm...@aol.com>> wrote: I was hoping for a rationale based on experience, i.e., USB works well or not at all. Doesn't really matter much. Most likely I will make up a new cable using DB25-to-DB9. My favorite cable is the full-null belkin serial laplink cable, if you can find one. Never had a problem with any of them, ever. f3x171-10, but they are hard to find these days though they were very cheap for a while. To use with Model T, you need to have a db-25 gender changer. But generally, you need a full-null cable. I wouldn't go with 3 wire cables since you may want to experiment with hardware flow control (HTERM, my bare bones / dumb terminal to Linux) given that you hook to Linux which overruns the Model T 64-byte serial buffer when using software flow control. Also Linux utilities throw in UTF-8 and lots of formatting codes. HTERM maps to/from utf-8 and strips ANSI color escapes, stuff like that. One thing to be aware of is some cables bump into the Model100 case and keep it from mating properly. You may have to shave some off the housing to make it fit, or ideally find one that fits into the space available, after adding the thin-hood gender changer. USB on the PC side is fine. I recommend only devices with FTDI chipsets, however (not Prolific). The FTDI drivers generally allow more configurability which ends up being necessary with TS-DOS (TS-DOS loves to time-out... remember USB serial devices have a tendency to delay/collect bytes to "efficiently" send a larger packet). -- John.
Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB
I actually went through the cable box and found a cable with a DB25 that would plug into the M100, cut off what was on the other end, and used an ohmmeter to find what color went to what pin, and soldered it onto a DB-9 to make the null modem cable to plug into the FTDI usb thing. I think I only found one that would plug into the M100, the others had hoods and things that got in the way. jonathan.y...@mykopat.slu.se Från: M100 [m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com] för John R. Hogerhuis [jho...@pobox.com] Skickat: den 27 april 2017 19:23 Till: Model 100 Discussion Ämne: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 10:10 AM, Paul Bucalo mailto:pm...@aol.com>> wrote: I was hoping for a rationale based on experience, i.e., USB works well or not at all. Doesn't really matter much. Most likely I will make up a new cable using DB25-to-DB9. My favorite cable is the full-null belkin serial laplink cable, if you can find one. Never had a problem with any of them, ever. f3x171-10, but they are hard to find these days though they were very cheap for a while. To use with Model T, you need to have a db-25 gender changer. But generally, you need a full-null cable. I wouldn't go with 3 wire cables since you may want to experiment with hardware flow control (HTERM, my bare bones / dumb terminal to Linux) given that you hook to Linux which overruns the Model T 64-byte serial buffer when using software flow control. Also Linux utilities throw in UTF-8 and lots of formatting codes. HTERM maps to/from utf-8 and strips ANSI color escapes, stuff like that. One thing to be aware of is some cables bump into the Model100 case and keep it from mating properly. You may have to shave some off the housing to make it fit, or ideally find one that fits into the space available, after adding the thin-hood gender changer. USB on the PC side is fine. I recommend only devices with FTDI chipsets, however (not Prolific). The FTDI drivers generally allow more configurability which ends up being necessary with TS-DOS (TS-DOS loves to time-out... remember USB serial devices have a tendency to delay/collect bytes to "efficiently" send a larger packet). -- John.
Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB
I just did a search on eBay for a Belkin F3x171-10. Only listing that came up was selling for $50. Yeah, not going to happen. I'll look around to see if anyone sells the cable for a reasonable price, but chances are high I'll end up making up a DB25-to-DB9 cable set. I sure wish I hadn't thrown out the one I made years ago, back when I was actively working with my M100. Live and (probably never) learn. I'll give HTERM a try. I had forgotten about utf-8 coding. Thanks for the reminder. Thanks, John. -Original Message- From: John R. Hogerhuis To: Model 100 Discussion Sent: Thu, Apr 27, 2017 1:23 pm Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 10:10 AM, Paul Bucalo wrote: I was hoping for a rationale based on experience, i.e., USB works well or not at all. Doesn't really matter much. Most likely I will make up a new cable using DB25-to-DB9. My favorite cable is the full-null belkin serial laplink cable, if you can find one. Never had a problem with any of them, ever. f3x171-10, but they are hard to find these days though they were very cheap for a while. To use with Model T, you need to have a db-25 gender changer. But generally, you need a full-null cable. I wouldn't go with 3 wire cables since you may want to experiment with hardware flow control (HTERM, my bare bones / dumb terminal to Linux) given that you hook to Linux which overruns the Model T 64-byte serial buffer when using software flow control. Also Linux utilities throw in UTF-8 and lots of formatting codes. HTERM maps to/from utf-8 and strips ANSI color escapes, stuff like that. One thing to be aware of is some cables bump into the Model100 case and keep it from mating properly. You may have to shave some off the housing to make it fit, or ideally find one that fits into the space available, after adding the thin-hood gender changer. USB on the PC side is fine. I recommend only devices with FTDI chipsets, however (not Prolific). The FTDI drivers generally allow more configurability which ends up being necessary with TS-DOS (TS-DOS loves to time-out... remember USB serial devices have a tendency to delay/collect bytes to "efficiently" send a larger packet). -- John.
Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB
Hello, Sorry, I thought you were using a real UART on the PC. Remember the 8250? I use USB to RS-232 adapters, and haven't connected to a real RS232 port on the PC side for maybe 10 years. One which I've used is just a USB to serial adapter that I generally use to connect to a Raspberry Pi. It does 0-5 volts (not real RS-232) and I have to connect it via a level-shifter to connect to the m100. When I plug it in to my computer, lsusb reports a ID 067b:2303 Prolific Technology, Inc. PL2303 Serial Port. I can connect it directly to the Pi, and there is even a 5v line so I can power the older Pis directly off the adapter. The level shifter I've used when connecting to an M100 is a MAX232N chip with 5 capacitors to boost the 0-5 to enough to drive the M100 (I've never actually measured the voltage). I wouldn't recommend this setup since there are so many pieces but I had a lot of the bits sitting around. The PL2303 adaptor has NO handshaking so I have to jumper things on the M100 side (CTS to RTS etc). But since it was originally for a pi, there was no handhaking there, either. It did work OK with dlink if you hold the speed down. The other one I use I bought off of ebay (in China). I think it has a FTDI chip in it. lsusb reports 0403:6015 Future Technology Devices International, Ltd Bridge (I2C/SPI/UART/FIFO). This one can drive the M100 with just a null modem (which I made) that is a DB9 to DB25. I think I made the adapter with the 'normal' handshaking but I'd have to pull out an ohmmeter to check the connections since the DB25 end was sealed and I don't know where my notes are. I just checked ebay but it was so long ago it has fallen off the list of puchases My recollection is that you probably want the FTDI chip. A lot of places talk about USB-Serial but the serial out of these is not enough to drive the M100. I think I looked specifically for FTDI when I bought the second adapter. I seem to remember that the FTDI chip adapters cost a little more than the PL2303 ones. Jonathan jonathan.y...@mykopat.slu.se Från: M100 [m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com] för Paul Bucalo [pm...@aol.com] Skickat: den 27 april 2017 19:10 Till: m100@lists.bitchin100.com Ämne: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB I was hoping for a rationale based on experience, i.e., USB works well or not at all. Doesn't really matter much. Most likely I will make up a new cable using DB25-to-DB9. While I haven't try minicom or gtkterm, I like that the latter allows me to set my preferences through a settings file. Saves me from having to use key commands. And the DE environment on the desktops is GTK+. I will try both and see where my preference lies. Thanks, Jonathon. -Original Message- From: Jonathan Yuen To: Model 100 Discussion Sent: Thu, Apr 27, 2017 12:55 pm Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB Hello DB25 and DB9.Real serial ports!!! I tend to use minicom for emulating a serial terminal though I did play with screen for a while. Minicom sets the baud rate etc. jonathan.y...@mykopat.slu.se<mailto:jonathan.y...@mykopat.slu.se> Från: M100 [m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com<mailto:boun...@lists.bitchin100.com>] för Paul Bucalo [pm...@aol.com<mailto:pm...@aol.com>] Skickat: den 27 april 2017 15:17 Till: m100@lists.bitchin100.com<mailto:m100@lists.bitchin100.com> Ämne: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB I would like to use a spare PC workstation as a repository for files and programs, to be accessed by a Model 100. I used to have a null modem cable I made up years ago. (Alas, that got thrown out in the last Great Hardware Purge.) I've read about the use of a null modem cable with a USB connector at the PC end. The workstations I could choose from all have either DB25 or DB9 serial ports, so this is a matter of what works best/easier in syncing. All my computers run under flavors of Ubuntu Linux. I do run Windows in a VM on a couple of PCs, but really have no interest in connecting via a VM and to Windows. (I understand gtkterm is a good terminal choice for the Linux side.) And lastly, in regard to buying a pre-made cable: would I be correct in assuming any product labeled "Full Null Modem", "...with Full Handshake", would be adequate for the task? TIA! ~ Paul
Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB
On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 10:10 AM, Paul Bucalo wrote: > I was hoping for a rationale based on experience, i.e., USB works well or > not at all. Doesn't really matter much. Most likely I will make up a new > cable using DB25-to-DB9. > > My favorite cable is the full-null belkin serial laplink cable, if you can find one. Never had a problem with any of them, ever. f3x171-10, but they are hard to find these days though they were very cheap for a while. To use with Model T, you need to have a db-25 gender changer. But generally, you need a full-null cable. I wouldn't go with 3 wire cables since you may want to experiment with hardware flow control (HTERM, my bare bones / dumb terminal to Linux) given that you hook to Linux which overruns the Model T 64-byte serial buffer when using software flow control. Also Linux utilities throw in UTF-8 and lots of formatting codes. HTERM maps to/from utf-8 and strips ANSI color escapes, stuff like that. One thing to be aware of is some cables bump into the Model100 case and keep it from mating properly. You may have to shave some off the housing to make it fit, or ideally find one that fits into the space available, after adding the thin-hood gender changer. USB on the PC side is fine. I recommend only devices with FTDI chipsets, however (not Prolific). The FTDI drivers generally allow more configurability which ends up being necessary with TS-DOS (TS-DOS loves to time-out... remember USB serial devices have a tendency to delay/collect bytes to "efficiently" send a larger packet). -- John.
Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB
I was hoping for a rationale based on experience, i.e., USB works well or not at all. Doesn't really matter much. Most likely I will make up a new cable using DB25-to-DB9. While I haven't try minicom or gtkterm, I like that the latter allows me to set my preferences through a settings file. Saves me from having to use key commands. And the DE environment on the desktops is GTK+. I will try both and see where my preference lies. Thanks, Jonathon. -Original Message- From: Jonathan Yuen To: Model 100 Discussion Sent: Thu, Apr 27, 2017 12:55 pm Subject: Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB Hello DB25 and DB9.Real serial ports!!! I tend to use minicom for emulating a serial terminal though I did play with screen for a while. Minicom sets the baud rate etc. jonathan.y...@mykopat.slu.se Från: M100 [m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com] för Paul Bucalo [pm...@aol.com] Skickat: den 27 april 2017 15:17 Till: m100@lists.bitchin100.com Ämne: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables,specif Serial to USB I would like to use a spare PC workstation as a repository for files and programs, to be accessed by a Model 100. I used to have a null modem cable I made up years ago. (Alas, that got thrown out in the last Great Hardware Purge.) I've read about the use of a null modem cable with a USB connector at the PC end. The workstations I could choose from all have either DB25 or DB9 serial ports, so this is a matter of what works best/easier in syncing. All my computers run under flavors of Ubuntu Linux. I do run Windows in a VM on a couple of PCs, but really have no interest in connecting via a VM and to Windows. (I understand gtkterm is a good terminal choice for the Linux side.) And lastly, in regard to buying a pre-made cable: would I be correct in assuming any product labeled "Full Null Modem", "...with Full Handshake", would be adequate for the task? TIA! ~ Paul
Re: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables, specif Serial to USB
Hello DB25 and DB9.Real serial ports!!! I tend to use minicom for emulating a serial terminal though I did play with screen for a while. Minicom sets the baud rate etc. jonathan.y...@mykopat.slu.se Från: M100 [m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com] för Paul Bucalo [pm...@aol.com] Skickat: den 27 april 2017 15:17 Till: m100@lists.bitchin100.com Ämne: [M100] Questions regarding Full Null Modem Cables,specif Serial to USB I would like to use a spare PC workstation as a repository for files and programs, to be accessed by a Model 100. I used to have a null modem cable I made up years ago. (Alas, that got thrown out in the last Great Hardware Purge.) I've read about the use of a null modem cable with a USB connector at the PC end. The workstations I could choose from all have either DB25 or DB9 serial ports, so this is a matter of what works best/easier in syncing. All my computers run under flavors of Ubuntu Linux. I do run Windows in a VM on a couple of PCs, but really have no interest in connecting via a VM and to Windows. (I understand gtkterm is a good terminal choice for the Linux side.) And lastly, in regard to buying a pre-made cable: would I be correct in assuming any product labeled "Full Null Modem", "...with Full Handshake", would be adequate for the task? TIA! ~ Paul
