Re: Odd 'head' problem
I don't recall those questions at all, however it is not at all obvious that 'HEAD' is going to replace 'head'. I'm not sure I understand the earlier comment about case insensitive filesystems. Certainly, OS X is not case insensitive at the CLI level, although 'Finder' is. That's complete nonsense, as the simplest test will show: ~ sherm$ echo Hello world head ~ sherm$ cat HEAD Hello world HFS+ is a case-insensitive file system. Finder has nothing whatsoever to do with it - it's just a user-level file manager. base:~ me$ echo hello Mac OS X mailing list head base:~ me $ cat HEAD cat: HEAD: No such file or directory base:~ me $ cat head hello Mac OS X mailing list base:~ me $ ;-) Yes, my boot volume is HFS+, and I have not moved the user directories off of it on this machine. Explanation: Case sensitivity is a property of the file system, which is separate from the shells (both CLI and GUI). Current versions of Mac OS X (from at least 10.2) allow you to specify case sensitivity on both UFS and HFS+ volumes when you partition a drive. I always format all my volumes case sensitive, except for the volume I keep classic on. I'm not sure if it's possible to change the case sensitivity when re- formatting existing partitions, and it would take more time than I want to take right now to check. As a side note, I prefer to put /usr/local, /www, and similar stuff on separate volumes formatted UFS as much as possible. Those are also case sensitive, of course. An even further off-topic complaint, it would be nice to be able to make an even finer cut, and put /var/log, /tmp, /var/tmp, etc. on separate partitions as damage-limiting measures, but, one, I run out of partitions when I do things like dual-boot openbsd, and, two, I won't trust Mac OS X's handling of hard or soft links to that level until /etc/fstab is respected before autodiskmount or whatever it's called kicks in. I've got swap on a separate partition on one of my old machines with limited hard disk space, and it definitely speeds that old machine up, but I don't recommend playing those tricks on a machine that I want to load arbitrary applications on. (Any Apple people reading the list, please note that there are good reasons for allowing /etc/fstab to do its job.)
Odd 'head' problem
I'm not exactly sure this is what happened but I can't think of anything else. After installing several packages from CPAN, my daily log maintenance began failing. After some investigation I found that '/etc/periodic/daily/500.daily' was getting an error from the '/usr/ bin/head' command. When I ran 'head' manually the command was not the normal one. It appears that one of the perl packages replaced the normal 'head' command that works on files, with one that works on URLs. Has anyone encountered this, or can anyone determine if my surmise about one of the perl packages is correct? Thanks. Dennis Putnam Sr. IT Systems Administrator AIM Systems, Inc. 11675 Rainwater Dr., Suite 200 Alpharetta, GA 30004 Phone: 678-240-4112 Main Phone: 678-297-0700 FAX: 678-297-2666 or 770-576-1000 The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments is strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, dissemination, distribution, or duplication of any part of this e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete all copies, including the attachments.
Re: Odd 'head' problem
Thanks, for letting me know I am not nuts. Unfortunately, I've already replaced the wrong one with the right one. I guess I need to get the perl version from somewhere so I can rename it. Do you know which package contains that version? Thanks. On Jun 15, 2006, at 7:31 AM, Andy Holyer wrote: On 15 Jun 2006, at 12:22, Dennis Putnam wrote: I'm not exactly sure this is what happened but I can't think of anything else. After installing several packages from CPAN, my daily log maintenance began failing. After some investigation I found that '/etc/periodic/daily/500.daily' was getting an error from the '/usr/bin/head' command. When I ran 'head' manually the command was not the normal one. It appears that one of the perl packages replaced the normal 'head' command that works on files, with one that works on URLs. Has anyone encountered this, or can anyone determine if my surmise about one of the perl packages is correct? Thanks. This is a common gotcha on Os X. For some reason which I forget, but which I think was due to backwards compatibility with earlier versions of MacOs, the standard file system is not case sensitive: HEAD and head are considered equivalent. In the Perl distribution there is a script called HEAD which indeed does fetch the header of an HTML file from the web. This clashes with the standard Unix head command. There is a standard workaround, but just renaming the HEAD script solves things without (ISTR) breaking too much else. Dennis Putnam Sr. IT Systems Administrator AIM Systems, Inc. 11675 Rainwater Dr., Suite 200 Alpharetta, GA 30004 Phone: 678-240-4112 Main Phone: 678-297-0700 FAX: 678-297-2666 or 770-576-1000 The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments is strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, dissemination, distribution, or duplication of any part of this e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete all copies, including the attachments.
Re: Odd 'head' problem
You are (probably) correct. Its one of the web related cpan packages. LWP maybe, or something similar. It actually installs a command named HEAD rather than head, IIRC, but on a case insensitive file system, these are pretty much the same thing ... On 15 Jun 2006, at 12:22, Dennis Putnam wrote: I'm not exactly sure this is what happened but I can't think of anything else. After installing several packages from CPAN, my daily log maintenance began failing. After some investigation I found that '/etc/periodic/daily/500.daily' was getting an error from the '/usr/bin/head' command. When I ran 'head' manually the command was not the normal one. It appears that one of the perl packages replaced the normal 'head' command that works on files, with one that works on URLs. Has anyone encountered this, or can anyone determine if my surmise about one of the perl packages is correct? Thanks. Dennis Putnam Sr. IT Systems Administrator AIM Systems, Inc. 11675 Rainwater Dr., Suite 200 Alpharetta, GA 30004 Phone: 678-240-4112 Main Phone: 678-297-0700 FAX: 678-297-2666 or 770-576-1000 The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments is strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, dissemination, distribution, or duplication of any part of this e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete all copies, including the attachments.
Re: Odd 'head' problem
On 15 Jun 2006, at 12:22, Dennis Putnam wrote: I'm not exactly sure this is what happened but I can't think of anything else. After installing several packages from CPAN, my daily log maintenance began failing. After some investigation I found that '/etc/periodic/daily/500.daily' was getting an error from the '/usr/bin/head' command. When I ran 'head' manually the command was not the normal one. It appears that one of the perl packages replaced the normal 'head' command that works on files, with one that works on URLs. Has anyone encountered this, or can anyone determine if my surmise about one of the perl packages is correct? Thanks. This is a common gotcha on Os X. For some reason which I forget, but which I think was due to backwards compatibility with earlier versions of MacOs, the standard file system is not case sensitive: HEAD and head are considered equivalent. In the Perl distribution there is a script called HEAD which indeed does fetch the header of an HTML file from the web. This clashes with the standard Unix head command. There is a standard workaround, but just renaming the HEAD script solves things without (ISTR) breaking too much else.
Re: Odd 'head' problem
On Jun 15, 2006, at 7:22 AM, Dennis Putnam wrote: I'm not exactly sure this is what happened but I can't think of anything else. After installing several packages from CPAN, my daily log maintenance began failing. After some investigation I found that '/etc/periodic/daily/500.daily' was getting an error from the '/usr/bin/head' command. When I ran 'head' manually the command was not the normal one. It appears that one of the perl packages replaced the normal 'head' command that works on files, with one that works on URLs. That's precisely what happened. The LWP package installs a script called HEAD that does an HTTP HEAD request. On case-insensitive file systems like HFS+, head and HEAD are the same. Has anyone encountered this, or can anyone determine if my surmise about one of the perl packages is correct? Thanks. Yes, many people have had this problem. It's not come up for several years, though, because recent versions of the LWP install script asks if you want to overwrite head and install HEAD when it detects a case- insensitive file system, and the default answer to that question is no. Here's what the questions look like: The lwp-request program will use the name it is invoked with to determine what HTTP method to use. I can set up alias for the most common HTTP methods. These alias are also installed in /usr/bin. Do you want to install the GET alias? [n] Do you want to install the HEAD alias? [n] Do you want to install the POST alias? [n] The moral of the story - *read* the questions, don't just keep bouncing on the 'y' and 'return' keys. sherm-- Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net Hire me! My resume: http://www.dot-app.org
Re: Odd 'head' problem
On Jun 15, 2006, at 7:43 AM, Dennis Putnam wrote: Thanks, for letting me know I am not nuts. Unfortunately, I've already replaced the wrong one with the right one. I guess I need to get the perl version from somewhere so I can rename it. It's just a symlink to /usr/bin/lwp-request. You don't need it. Just use 'lwp-request -m HEAD' instead, if you need to do an HTTP HEAD request in a shell script. sherm-- Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net Hire me! My resume: http://www.dot-app.org
Re: Odd 'head' problem
I don't recall those questions at all, however it is not at all obvious that 'HEAD' is going to replace 'head'. I'm not sure I understand the earlier comment about case insensitive filesystems. Certainly, OS X is not case insensitive at the CLI level, although 'Finder' is. However, PERL is running at the CLI level so I don't see why that should be a problem. Oh, well. Lesson learned, albeit too late. P.S. If 'HEAD' is an alias, where is the real file? On Jun 15, 2006, at 9:41 AM, Sherm Pendley wrote: On Jun 15, 2006, at 7:22 AM, Dennis Putnam wrote: I'm not exactly sure this is what happened but I can't think of anything else. After installing several packages from CPAN, my daily log maintenance began failing. After some investigation I found that '/etc/periodic/daily/500.daily' was getting an error from the '/usr/bin/head' command. When I ran 'head' manually the command was not the normal one. It appears that one of the perl packages replaced the normal 'head' command that works on files, with one that works on URLs. That's precisely what happened. The LWP package installs a script called HEAD that does an HTTP HEAD request. On case-insensitive file systems like HFS+, head and HEAD are the same. Has anyone encountered this, or can anyone determine if my surmise about one of the perl packages is correct? Thanks. Yes, many people have had this problem. It's not come up for several years, though, because recent versions of the LWP install script asks if you want to overwrite head and install HEAD when it detects a case-insensitive file system, and the default answer to that question is no. Here's what the questions look like: The lwp-request program will use the name it is invoked with to determine what HTTP method to use. I can set up alias for the most common HTTP methods. These alias are also installed in /usr/bin. Do you want to install the GET alias? [n] Do you want to install the HEAD alias? [n] Do you want to install the POST alias? [n] The moral of the story - *read* the questions, don't just keep bouncing on the 'y' and 'return' keys. sherm-- Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net Hire me! My resume: http://www.dot-app.org Dennis Putnam Sr. IT Systems Administrator AIM Systems, Inc. 11675 Rainwater Dr., Suite 200 Alpharetta, GA 30004 Phone: 678-240-4112 Main Phone: 678-297-0700 FAX: 678-297-2666 or 770-576-1000 The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments is strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, dissemination, distribution, or duplication of any part of this e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete all copies, including the attachments.
Re: Odd 'head' problem
On Jun 15, 2006, at 7:31 AM, Andy Holyer wrote: On 15 Jun 2006, at 12:22, Dennis Putnam wrote: I'm not exactly sure this is what happened but I can't think of anything else. After installing several packages from CPAN, my daily log maintenance began failing. After some investigation I found that '/etc/periodic/daily/500.daily' was getting an error from the '/usr/bin/head' command. When I ran 'head' manually the command was not the normal one. It appears that one of the perl packages replaced the normal 'head' command that works on files, with one that works on URLs. Has anyone encountered this, or can anyone determine if my surmise about one of the perl packages is correct? Thanks. This is a common gotcha on Os X. No, it *was* a common gotcha, several years ago. In the Perl distribution there is a script called HEAD which indeed does fetch the header of an HTML file from the web. This clashes with the standard Unix head command. It's in the LWP module, not the core Perl distribution. There is a standard workaround Yes, it's called reading the instructions and paying attention. The current default behavior for LWP when installing on a case- insensitive is to *not* install the HEAD alias for lwp-request. That's been the default for quite a long time now - a couple of years at least. You have to specifically override the default for this to happen. sherm-- Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net Hire me! My resume: http://www.dot-app.org
Re: Odd 'head' problem
Thanks for that. I was concerned that perl itself needed it (particularly for MCPAN) for some reason. If that is all it is then I don't need to worry about it. On Jun 15, 2006, at 9:49 AM, Sherm Pendley wrote: On Jun 15, 2006, at 7:43 AM, Dennis Putnam wrote: Thanks, for letting me know I am not nuts. Unfortunately, I've already replaced the wrong one with the right one. I guess I need to get the perl version from somewhere so I can rename it. It's just a symlink to /usr/bin/lwp-request. You don't need it. Just use 'lwp-request -m HEAD' instead, if you need to do an HTTP HEAD request in a shell script. sherm-- Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net Hire me! My resume: http://www.dot-app.org Dennis Putnam Sr. IT Systems Administrator AIM Systems, Inc. 11675 Rainwater Dr., Suite 200 Alpharetta, GA 30004 Phone: 678-240-4112 Main Phone: 678-297-0700 FAX: 678-297-2666 or 770-576-1000 The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments is strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, dissemination, distribution, or duplication of any part of this e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete all copies, including the attachments.
Re: Odd 'head' problem
On Jun 15, 2006, at 9:55 AM, Dennis Putnam wrote: I don't recall those questions at all, however it is not at all obvious that 'HEAD' is going to replace 'head'. I'm not sure I understand the earlier comment about case insensitive filesystems. Certainly, OS X is not case insensitive at the CLI level, although 'Finder' is. That's complete nonsense, as the simplest test will show: ~ sherm$ echo Hello world head ~ sherm$ cat HEAD Hello world HFS+ is a case-insensitive file system. Finder has nothing whatsoever to do with it - it's just a user-level file manager. sherm-- Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net Hire me! My resume: http://www.dot-app.org
Re: Odd 'head' problem
On Thu, Jun 15, 2006 at 09:49:54AM -0400, Sherm Pendley wrote: On Jun 15, 2006, at 7:43 AM, Dennis Putnam wrote: Thanks, for letting me know I am not nuts. Unfortunately, I've already replaced the wrong one with the right one. I guess I need to get the perl version from somewhere so I can rename it. It's just a symlink to /usr/bin/lwp-request. You don't need it. Just use 'lwp-request -m HEAD' instead, if you need to do an HTTP HEAD request in a shell script. Presumably you can create a HEAD alias in your shell and, the shell being case-sensitive, avoid the problem. -- David Cantrell | A machine for turning tea into grumpiness IMO, the primary historical significance of Unix is that it marks the time in computer history where CPUs became so cheap that it was possible to build an operating system without adult supervision. -- Russ Holsclaw in a.f.c
Re: Need to reinstall unix head utility any ideas?
On Feb 10, 2005, at 7:28 PM, Boysenberry Payne wrote: now my original head utility was overwritten by HEAD and I need to get it back to build mod_perl 1.26 from source. Does anyone know where or how I can reinstall this file? Have a look at Pacifist - you can use it to extract and install a single file from your OS disks: http://www.charlessoft.com/ sherm-- Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net Hire me! My resume: http://www.dot-app.org
Re: Need to reinstall unix head utility any ideas?
Speaking of the case insensitivity issue, is anyone here experimenting with the case sensitive HFSx volume format?
LWP head script
Hi, I did not use my UNIX head tool in a while. When I tried to call it recently, I found that a Perl script resides in /usr/bin which was obviously put there when installing the LWP module. /usr/bin/tail is still there, but my original is gone/overwritten. Why did LWP do that? man head still describes the original head. When I first looked at /usr/bin after doing which head, there was no head when listing hea*, but it showed up when listing head. Strange things going on - can someone shed a light on this? Thanks, Jan -- Either this man is dead or my watch has stopped. - Groucho Marx
Re: LWP head script
Jan Eden wrote on 06.01.2005: Hi, I did not use my UNIX head tool in a while. When I tried to call it recently, I found that a Perl script resides in /usr/bin which was obviously put there when installing the LWP module. /usr/bin/tail is still there, but my original is gone/overwritten. /Why did LWP do that? man head still describes the original head. When I first looked at /usr/bin after doing which head, there was no head when listing hea*, but it showed up when listing head. Strange things going on - can someone shed a light on this? Found an explanation - but no solution. I saw this in a tutorial: --- sudo mv /usr/bin/head /tmp sudo perl -MCPAN -e 'shell' cpan install HTML::Parser cpan install LWP sudo mv /usr/bin/get /usr/local/bin/lwp-get sudo mv /usr/bin/head /usr/local/bin/lwp-head sudo mv /usr/bin/post /usr/local/bin/lwp-post sudo mv /tmp/head /usr/bin --- So it is obviously a known (mis)behaviour of LWP to overwrite the original head. Does someone know where on the Panther installation discs the original head is located? Thanks, Jan -- A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
Re: LWP head script
Hi Jeremy, Jeremy Mates wrote on 06.01.2005: * Jan Eden [EMAIL PROTECTED] So it is obviously a known (mis)behaviour of LWP to overwrite the original head. I thought that had been fixed in the latest LWP release. My notes on the topic can be found at: http://sial.org/howto/perl/life-with-cpan/macosx/ http://sial.org/howto/perl/life-with-cpan/ Does someone know where on the Panther installation discs the original head is located? I've pulled head off other systems; otherwise, I think there are tools to open up and poke around inside the Apple installers somewhere... Thanks! I already got two replies off-list, but I will add your explanation and workaround to my personal repository (mentioning you as the author, of course). Cheers, Jan -- These are my principles and if you don't like them... well, I have others. - Groucho Marx
Re: LWP head script
On Jan 6, 2005, at 12:31 PM, Jan Eden wrote: So it is obviously a known (mis)behaviour of LWP to overwrite the original head. Known and fixed, long ago. Whatever docs you read are seriously out of date. Recent LWPs check for a case-insensitive file system and default to not installing the HEAD alias if doing so would overwrite head. Does someone know where on the Panther installation discs the original head is located? You can use Pacifist to find and extract it. Check Version Tracker, Google, etc. sherm-- Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net Hire me! My resume: http://www.dot-app.org
Re: LWP head script
Sherm Pendley wrote on 06.01.2005: On Jan 6, 2005, at 12:31 PM, Jan Eden wrote: So it is obviously a known (mis)behaviour of LWP to overwrite the original head. Known and fixed, long ago. Whatever docs you read are seriously out of date. Recent LWPs check for a case-insensitive file system and default to not installing the HEAD alias if doing so would overwrite head. Hm. I installed LWP some months ago (in 2004) from CPAN, so the problem should not be *that* ancient. - Jan -- Common sense is what tells you that the world is flat.
Re: head
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William H. Magill) wrote: On 23 Nov, 2003, at 15:04, Jerry Rocteur wrote: BTW, does anyone recommend something different than HFS+ to avoid this very annoying thingy ? Get a copy of OS X Server (Panther)'s install CD and format the disk as Case Sensitive. (This is supposedly different from the old UFS option, but I haven't tried it, so I can't say for certain. ) You can do this on Mac OS X too, though I don't know how. But you need to use the command line tools, it is not available in the GUI. I've been told by Apple personnel that this works, though I've not tried it, or quite figured out how to do it. I need to reformat a disk soon though, so I may give it a shot. I'll post about it if I do. One that I am aware of has to do with Retrospect -- it assumes a case insensitive file system. So if you have HEAD and head only one copy winds up on the tape. But chances are they are in different locations anyway: just make sure you install in /usr/local, as everyone should have done anyway ... right? ;-) -- Chris Nandor [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://pudge.net/ Open Source Development Network[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://osdn.com/
Re: head
On Sunday, Nov 23, 2003, at 12:04 US/Pacific, Jerry Rocteur wrote: A UNIX system that is not case sensitive doesn't sound like a UNIX system to me.. I wonder what else Apple is going to change in UNIX, soon we'll be cd \etc\httpd It seems to me that there's no good reason to preserve case insensitivity in Mac OSX. The primary concern might be that Finder's toolbar and Find dialog (Command-F) do a case-insensitive search by default, since users might be accustomed to this. No? It's not OSX that's case insensitive, but the filesystem. When you mount a CD, the names on it are restricted to those allowed by the CD standard and the extensions in use. If you manage to mount a DOS floppy, DOS name restrictions will apply. Currently OSX works best with HFS+ and gives you that by default, and that means no case sensitivity. Names on UFS filesystems are fully case sensitive. There are two problems with going case sensitive. The first is that standard HFS+ doesn't do it, and lots of Mac stuff depends on other attributes of HFS+ that UFS (or any other case sensitive F/S) doesn't support. The other is that (probably) just as many users regard case sensitivity as a ridiculous idea as regard it as essential. At a discussion between a handfull of us over coffee during a usergroup meeting at Apple (UK), those of us preferring case sensitivity were in a minority (well 2 to 3 - ish). The availability of case sensitivity under OSX Server shows that a modification to HFS+ is possible, but it's not standard HFS+ so who can say how desktop applications would survive with it. David -- David Ledger - Freelance Unix Sysadmin in the UK. Chair of HPUX SysAdmin SIG of hpUG technical user group (www.hpug.org.uk) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (also [EMAIL PROTECTED]) www.ivdcs.co.uk
head
Hi, Why would a Perl Module installation wipe out a standard UNIX program 'head' with a head Perl script which is completely unrelated to the real 'head' ?? I don't get it ... What next. Regards, Jerry
Re: head
At 20:20 +0100 11/23/03, Jerry Rocteur wrote: Why would a Perl Module installation wipe out a standard UNIX program 'head' with a head Perl script which is completely unrelated to the real 'head' ?? In the old days there was a problem with head and HEAD. The perl installer was accustomed to a case sensitive file system which Apple's HFS+ is not. I thought is was fixed but . . . -- -- There are 10 kinds of people: those who understand binary, and those who don't --
Re: head
...because the makers assumed a filesystem that would not treat head and HEAD as the same thing. but i thought recent versions of LWP confined their improvements to /usr/local/bin, so who kno. will On 23 Nov 2003, at 19:20, Jerry Rocteur wrote: Hi, Why would a Perl Module installation wipe out a standard UNIX program 'head' with a head Perl script which is completely unrelated to the real 'head' ?? I don't get it ... What next. Regards, Jerry
Re: head
IC.. Thanks for that.. A UNIX system that is not case sensitive doesn't sound like a UNIX system to me.. I wonder what else Apple is going to change in UNIX, soon we'll be cd \etc\httpd I apologize to the wonderful Perl people for thinking something naughty about them when all along it is Apple. Thanks for the prompt answer.. I just moved the perl head elsewhere... But I'm sure that will break things.. BTW, does anyone recommend something different than HFS+ to avoid this very annoying thingy ? Thanks Apple. Jerry On Sunday, Nov 23, 2003, at 20:43 Europe/Brussels, Doug McNutt wrote: At 20:20 +0100 11/23/03, Jerry Rocteur wrote: Why would a Perl Module installation wipe out a standard UNIX program 'head' with a head Perl script which is completely unrelated to the real 'head' ?? In the old days there was a problem with head and HEAD. The perl installer was accustomed to a case sensitive file system which Apple's HFS+ is not. I thought is was fixed but . . . -- -- There are 10 kinds of people: those who understand binary, and those who don't --
Re: head
BTW for those running Mac OS X with this head confusion, on 10.2.8 I'm seeing this kind of thing all over the place: Rotating log files: system.logUnknown option: 1Usage: head [-options] url...-m method use method for the request (default is 'HEAD')-fmake request even if head believes method is illegal Including the boot sequence if you boot in verbose mode.. Cheers, Jerry On Sunday, Nov 23, 2003, at 21:04 Europe/Brussels, Jerry Rocteur wrote: IC.. Thanks for that.. A UNIX system that is not case sensitive doesn't sound like a UNIX system to me.. I wonder what else Apple is going to change in UNIX, soon we'll be cd \etc\httpd I apologize to the wonderful Perl people for thinking something naughty about them when all along it is Apple. Thanks for the prompt answer.. I just moved the perl head elsewhere... But I'm sure that will break things.. BTW, does anyone recommend something different than HFS+ to avoid this very annoying thingy ? Thanks Apple. Jerry On Sunday, Nov 23, 2003, at 20:43 Europe/Brussels, Doug McNutt wrote: At 20:20 +0100 11/23/03, Jerry Rocteur wrote: Why would a Perl Module installation wipe out a standard UNIX program 'head' with a head Perl script which is completely unrelated to the real 'head' ?? In the old days there was a problem with head and HEAD. The perl installer was accustomed to a case sensitive file system which Apple's HFS+ is not. I thought is was fixed but . . . -- -- There are 10 kinds of people: those who understand binary, and those who don't --
Re: head
On Sunday, Nov 23, 2003, at 12:04 US/Pacific, Jerry Rocteur wrote: A UNIX system that is not case sensitive doesn't sound like a UNIX system to me.. I wonder what else Apple is going to change in UNIX, soon we'll be cd \etc\httpd It seems to me that there's no good reason to preserve case insensitivity in Mac OSX. The primary concern might be that Finder's toolbar and Find dialog (Command-F) do a case-insensitive search by default, since users might be accustomed to this. No?
Re: head
On 23 Nov, 2003, at 15:04, Jerry Rocteur wrote: A UNIX system that is not case sensitive doesn't sound like a UNIX system to me.. I wonder what else Apple is going to change in UNIX, soon we'll be cd \etc\httpd It already has. Panther has stuck new users with bash instead of tcsh -- a very nasty, annoying and undocumented change. Drives support folks crazy since the default can't be changed. BTW, does anyone recommend something different than HFS+ to avoid this very annoying thingy ? Get a copy of OS X Server (Panther)'s install CD and format the disk as Case Sensitive. (This is supposedly different from the old UFS option, but I haven't tried it, so I can't say for certain. ) Supposedly, then you can simply install the Client without reformatting the disk and it just works. At this point, the case sensitive file system is supported for OS X Server only, and then primarily for the purpose of supporting things like NSF file systems exported to real Unix boxes. There ARE problems and issues. One that I am aware of has to do with Retrospect -- it assumes a case insensitive file system. So if you have HEAD and head only one copy winds up on the tape. Fortunately BRU is now available for OSX... unfortunately, it is still enterprise priced. They are supposedly working on a personal edition license as they have for assorted other *nix systems, but it does not exist yet. Obviously, any command-line unix tool will deal with the case sensitive file system correctly. However, since I haven't had a chance to try it out yet, I don't know what the finder and other GUI oriented apps will do. T.T.F.N. William H. Magill # Beige G3 - Rev A motherboard - 768 Meg # Flat-panel iMac (2.1) 800MHz - Super Drive - 768 Meg # PWS433a [Alpha 21164 Rev 7.2 (EV56)- 64 Meg]- Tru64 5.1a [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
head vs. head
I sure wish I'd managed to keep all the flotsam generated by cpan much earlier today - unfortunately, it's vanished if swirling puff of electrons. But this is probably old had to real Perl'ers. Still, I thought someone might want to know about it... Much later in the day, I discovered that a head command typed into Terminal no longer gave me the first few lines of a file. Instead it seemed to provide numerous error messages and webbish looking stuff after some considerable delay. I believe this behavior is probably the result of my having installed Bundle::LWP because cpan had been complaining about LWP not being installed while I was installing MacOSX::File. I vaguely recall having been asked a question about whether something named head should have something or other done with it but the details escape me (as most things seem to be prone to do these days). What I do recall is not being told that the head command which I've taken for granted all this time was about to be overwritten by something else - which, considering the subject at the time, probably has something to do with HTML headers. Perhaps a warning with a bit more teeth in it would be sensible? Perhaps even better would be not to use the word head as the name of a command in the first place - especially one that overwrites a command provided by MacOSX in the first place? I don't really know what the LWP head command did (and foolishly deleted it so I'd have a harder time finding out now), but the word header seems to be available on my system and might suffice. -- ... probability factor of one to one ... we have normality, I repeat we have normality. Anything you still can't cope with is therefore your own problem. -- Trillian Walt Pawley [EMAIL PROTECTED] 541-672-8975 676 River Bend Road, Roseburg, OR 97470 Check out Oregon's oldest MUG: http://www.theABCC.org
Re: head vs. head
On Thu, Jul 10, 2003 at 11:40:15PM -0700, Walt Pawley wrote: Perhaps even better would be not to use the word head as the name of a command in the first place - especially one that overwrites a command provided by MacOSX in the first place? I don't really know what the LWP head command did (and foolishly deleted it so I'd have a harder time finding out now), but the word header seems to be available on my system and might suffice. In my not especially humble opinion, this is the fault of a case-insensitive filesystem, not the LWP distribution. Of course, I use UFS for precisely that reason, and have learned to live with the headaches *that* causes. :-) Probably I shouldn't be starting a flamewar on such a well-hashed-over topic, though, and so I pre-emptively say that I am probably wrong. :-) Be that as it may. If you trust me, you can get a replacement /usr/bin/head at http://davidhand.com/stuff/head.gz (taken from my 10.2.6 system). -- David cogent Hand http://davidhand.com/ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:4321282
Re: head vs. head
The head vs. HEAD problem is a well-known problem with using CPAN on Mac OS X. There was some discussion on this list last month because some people believed that the problem had been fixed. Sadly, your experience proves otherwise. Indeed, one can blame this problem on the unique characteristics of the HFS+ filesystem. Wherever the blame lies, however, the fact remains that there are now a huge number of machines with Mac OS X installed using the HFS+ filesystem -- perhaps more than any other flavor of Unix, if Apple's propaganda is to be believed. Case-insensitivity is here and it is widespread, and CPAN should be modified to take it into account IMHO. -- Dave
Re: head vs. head
At 06:38 -0400 7/11/03, David R. Morrison wrote: The head vs. HEAD problem is a well-known problem with using CPAN on Mac OS X. There was some discussion on this list last month because some people believed that the problem had been fixed. Sadly, your experience proves otherwise. I actually also had it interfere with configuring mod_perl on Mac OS X. So it's _not_ limited to just using CPAN. Removing /usr/local/bin/head from the system (exposing the original /usr/bin/head again) solved that problem for me. Liz
Re: head vs. head
On Friday, July 11, 2003, at 02:40 AM, Walt Pawley wrote: I vaguely recall having been asked a question about whether something named head should have something or other done with it but the details escape me (as most things seem to be prone to do these days). As a general rule, module Makefiles only interrupt the process with a question when the answer to that question could have consequences - if it didn't, there would be no need to interrupt what is supposed to be a highly-automated process. So it's important - even if you have a million other tasks demanding your attention - to read and understand any questions that are asked, before accepting the default answer. The exact question asked by the LWP install is this: --- The lwp-request program will use the name it is invoked with to determine what HTTP method to use. I can set up alias for the most common HTTP methods. These alias are also installed in /usr/local/bin. Do you want to install the GET alias? [y] n Do you want to install the HEAD alias? [y] n Do you want to install the POST alias? [y] n --- The install script is telling you what it intends to do, and asking you if it's appropriate for your system. If you didn't understand the question, you should have aborted the install and dug deeper. A simple Google search for HEAD LWP Mac turns up dozens of informative discussions on the topic. Mac OS X's case-insensitive filesystem (HFS+) is the reason this question is there at all. Prior to Mac OS X, these aliases were installed without comment, as on most (all?) other UNIX variants, HEAD and head are distinct file names, and the two can co-exist peacefully in the same directory. That's also why 'y' is the default answer - Mac OS X is the odd man out in this regard, and many system admins have written shell scripts that use these aliases. sherm-- Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
Re: head vs. head
At 09:20 -0400 7/11/03, Sherm Pendley wrote: The lwp-request program will use the name it is invoked with to determine what HTTP method to use. I can set up alias for the most common HTTP methods. These alias are also installed in /usr/local/bin. Do you want to install the GET alias? [y] n Do you want to install the HEAD alias? [y] n Do you want to install the POST alias? [y] n Mac OS X's case-insensitive filesystem (HFS+) is the reason this question is there at all. Prior to Mac OS X, these aliases were installed without comment, as on most (all?) other UNIX variants, HEAD and head are distinct file names, and the two can co-exist peacefully in the same directory. That's also why 'y' is the default answer - Mac OS X is the odd man out in this regard, and many system admins have written shell scripts that use these aliases. Eh... maybe a stupid question, but why is [y] the default on Mac OS X? Surely the install script can be made smart enough to make [n] the default on Mac OS X? Or is there a deeper reason why [y] needs to be the default always? Liz
Re: head vs. head
On Friday, July 11, 2003, at 01:40 AM, Walt Pawley wrote: Much later in the day, I discovered that a head command typed into Terminal no longer gave me the first few lines of a file. Instead it seemed to provide numerous error messages and webbish looking stuff after some considerable delay. Hi Walt, As others have pointed out, this issue has been affecting people for a long time. Here's my previous post on it, with an appropriate solution: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=ADC37A42-A2A4-11D7-B7DE- 003065F6D85A%40mathforum.org Note that this has nothing to do with CPAN.pm, it's a problem in the way MakeMaker and LWP are interacting. -Ken
Re: head vs. head
At 9:55 AM -0400 11/7/03, Sherm Pendley wrote: On Friday, July 11, 2003, at 09:26 AM, Elizabeth Mattijsen wrote: Surely the install script can be made smart enough to make [n] the default on Mac OS X? Even if the test is done in very general terms - i.e. if it were written to look for a case-insensitive filesystem instead of for a specific OS - you'd still need such a system to verify the test. In practical terms, that means testing it on a Mac - I don't know of any other UNIX that uses a case-insensitive filesystem. Not really wanting to get involved in this debate over again, but really a program should not replace an xisting file with a link by default, so perhaps the test should be if there already exists an HEAD which is not a link (or if they are hardlinks, a HEAD that is not a link to lwp_doit or whatever the real command is, or a weak test, not the same size as lwp_doit which would be close enough), then default to [n]. On the Mac system, HEAD and head are the same so the test would work for this case, and could easily be tested on any other unix system. Enjoy, Peter. -- http://www.interarchy.com/ http://documentation.interarchy.com/
Re: head vs. head
On Friday, July 11, 2003, at 08:48 PM, Peter N Lewis wrote: so perhaps the test should be The test as written is fine - if there is a 'HEAD' file, it looks in it for the string 'lwp-request'. If it finds such a string, it defaults to 'y', as the file is probably a symlink that was installed by an older version of LWP, and should be updated. Otherwise it defaults to 'n'. The problem is, as Ken pointed out - and submitted a patch to correct (thanks Ken) - that the test looks in the wrong directory for the file. sherm-- Each language has its purpose, however humble. Each language expresses the Yin and Yang of software. Each language has its place within the Tao. But do not program in COBOL if you can avoid it. -- The Tao of Programming
LWP HEAD still overwrites head (was Re: Installing 5.8.0)
On Friday, June 20, 2003, at 12:02 PM, Ken Williams wrote:
On Friday, June 20, 2003, at 07:36 AM, Robert Dalgleish wrote:
It is fixed in the LWP installer.
Robert, can you be more specific? I've looked through the source for
the LWP Makefile.PL (which I guess is what you mean by the LWP
installer) and I just don't see anything to handle it. It simply
passes bin/HEAD to the EXE_FILES parameter for ExtUtils::MakeMaker.
I think I see now what was *intended* to be the fix, but it doesn't fix
the problem. The Makefile.PL has this:
for my $alias (@request_aliases) {
my $default = y;
# check that we don't overwrite something unrelated with
# the current defaults.
if (open(PROG, $Config{sitebin}/$alias)) {
$default = n;
while (PROG) {
if (/lwp-request/) {
$default = y;
last;
}
}
close(PROG);
}
if (prompt(Do you want to install the $alias alias?,
$default) =~ /^y/) {
push(@tmp, $alias);
}
}
That's really a poor solution, and it's also broken. It's poor because
it just changes the default from 'y' to 'n' for installing HEAD, but
it'll still clobber it if you say 'y'.
It's broken because it'll look for conflicts in $Config{sitebin}
(/usr/local/bin) but install the script to $Config{installscript}
(/usr/bin) so it'll never detect the conflict.
I'm cc-ing this message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so they can take action.
-Ken
the head problem in lwp - Re: new to modules
On Thursday, August 29, 2002, at 07:20 , Phil Dobbin wrote:
[..]
Once I hear back on this I plan to download some modules and use them.
The LWP module has tempted me from the very beginning.
Remember the issue with case insensitivity on Mac OS X when installing
LWP. For more details see:
http://david.wheeler.net/osx.html
Scroll down right to the bottom and the details are there.
My compliments on the documentation and
the work around...
my path was to download the ppt perl version of head
http://www.perl.com/language/ppt/src/head/index.html
and put the personal modification into it
# Get the options.
if ( $ARGV[0] =~ /-(\d+)/ ) {
#
# drieuxish hack to allow for the old school
# head -12 file
$ARGV[0] = -n$1;
}
this way I can still do
head -12 file
vice the standard bsd style:
SYNOPSIS
head [-n count | -c bytes] [file ...]
ciao
drieux
---
Re: the head problem in lwp - Re: new to modules
On 29/8/02 at 07:31, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (drieux) wrote: On Thursday, August 29, 2002, at 07:20 , Phil Dobbin wrote: [..] Once I hear back on this I plan to download some modules and use them. The LWP module has tempted me from the very beginning. Remember the issue with case insensitivity on Mac OS X when installing LWP. For more details see: http://david.wheeler.net/osx.html Scroll down right to the bottom and the details are there. My compliments on the documentation and the work around... All kudos to David Wheeler. I just followed his instructions and it worked for me ;-) Regards, Phil.
build perl on HPFS+ was Re: the head problem in lwp - Re: new to modules
On Thursday, August 29, 2002, at 09:22 , Phil Dobbin wrote: On 29/8/02 at 07:31, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (drieux) wrote: [..] My compliments on the documentation and the work around... All kudos to David Wheeler. I just followed his instructions and it worked for me ;-) allow me to restructure then... Once I thought that the usual suspects of linux,emac,perl was clear proof that space aliens were taking over now I do perl on OSX so there are all these interesting sites where things align more to 'main stream apple way' or 'bsd-open-source' and it's not always clear which are the 'true believers' So thank you for extending that list... The problem I did not see directly on the page, or am I missing something, but does he do his builds on a ufs partition Since I get weirdness when I am on my apple directory, rather than building stuff on the NFS mounts... granted, under our regime, we do that as a part of the tao - since we want to have a single file server for all the OS supporting stuff for all of the OS's... So it was not until I downloaded something onto my mac and tried to do the usual perl Makefile.PL make make test make install that I ran into issues - I think it was with the 5.6.1 release... ciao drieux ---
Re: build perl on HPFS+ was Re: the head problem in lwp - Re: new to modules
On Thursday, August 29, 2002, at 09:43 AM, drieux wrote: The problem I did not see directly on the page, or am I missing something, but does he do his builds on a ufs partition No, I did it all on HFS+. There are a number of issues that I address on that page, a primary one being that you can't do make install until you mv INSTALL to INSTALL.txt. Since I get weirdness when I am on my apple directory, rather than building stuff on the NFS mounts... granted, under our regime, we do that as a part of the tao - since we want to have a single file server for all the OS supporting stuff for all of the OS's... I'm not sure I follow, here. You can do file sharing with all other OSen on HFS+, AFAIK. So it was not until I downloaded something onto my mac and tried to do the usual perl Makefile.PL make make test make install that I ran into issues - I think it was with the 5.6.1 release... What issues? BTW, I strongly recommend using Perl 5.8.0 now. Like I said, I need to update my page. Regards, David -- David Wheeler AIM: dwTheory [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 15726394 http://david.wheeler.net/ Yahoo!: dew7e Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HEAD to head (was Re: whoops)
(sorry Chris, you might get two copies of this... I forgot to put the Subject in the first one so onion.perl.org sent it back to me... I would like the answer to this, as well as have it archived in the mailing-list archives. Hence, resending it) Chris Devers wrote: Btw, one quickie -- move the LWP head to a better name, let's say /usr/bin/lwp-head by LWP head, I am assuming you are referring to HEAD, no? Yes, exactly. which begs the next obvious question -- if I rename HEAD to lwp-head, then won't other Perl programs that depend upon HEAD break? They will be looking for HEAD which is now lwp-head. In a case of a rarer condition, if there are any HFS-style case-blind applications that might want to call head, they will end up calling HEAD. pk/ -- Puneet Kishor [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.geoanalytics.com GeoAnalytics, Inc. 1716 Fordem Ave Madison WI 53704
Re: HEAD to head (was Re: whoops)
On Thursday, April 4, 2002, at 04:38 AM, PK Eidesis wrote: (sorry Chris, you might get two copies of this... I forgot to put the Subject in the first one so onion.perl.org sent it back to me... I would like the answer to this, as well as have it archived in the mailing-list archives. Hence, resending it) This will be about the umpteenth time it gets put in the archives. Not necessarily a bad thing, but this is well-worn ground. if I rename HEAD to lwp-head, then won't other Perl programs that depend upon HEAD break? They will be looking for HEAD which is now lwp-head. Yeah, but I know of no such programs. Calling HEAD from a command line isn't a very clean thing to do, Perl programs could just call the LWP routines directly. In a case of a rarer condition, if there are any HFS-style case-blind applications that might want to call head, they will end up calling HEAD. Check this out, on my system: [junior:~] ken% which head /usr/bin/head [junior:~] ken% which HEAD /usr/local/bin/HEAD I've had it this way for almost a year, and I've had zero problems with it. -Ken
Re: LWP and HEAD and head
On Friday, March 22, 2002, at 12:43 AM, Kee Hinckley wrote: At 8:28 AM -0500 3/21/02, Josh Kuperman wrote: Is there a way to make perl install LWP (and everything else): 1. so that all the files are accessible 2. they won't wipe out anything already present 3. they will be able to distinguish the PERL scripts from binaries using some mechanism other than case. Other than install MacOS X on a UFS file system--no. Just save a copy of the old head, and replace HEAD with head when the install is done. I assume something uses HEAD, but I don't know what--I just renamed it HEAD.pl. You can just put HEAD in /usr/local/bin/ . That's what I did and I haven't had anything mistake HEAD for head or vice versa. [junior:~/Downloads] ken% which head /usr/bin/head [junior:~/Downloads] ken% which HEAD /usr/local/bin/HEAD -Ken
Re: LWP and HEAD and head
At 8:28 AM -0500 3/21/02, Josh Kuperman wrote: Is there a way to make perl install LWP (and everything else): 1. so that all the files are accessible 2. they won't wipe out anything already present 3. they will be able to distinguish the PERL scripts from binaries using some mechanism other than case. Other than install MacOS X on a UFS file system--no. Just save a copy of the old head, and replace HEAD with head when the install is done. I assume something uses HEAD, but I don't know what--I just renamed it HEAD.pl. -- Kee Hinckley - Somewhere.Com, LLC http://consulting.somewhere.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'm not sure which upsets me more: that people are so unwilling to accept responsibility for their own actions, or that they are so eager to regulate everyone else's.
Re: mod_perl - head - HEAD - lwp
On Monday, 21 May 2001, at 14:20:02, Ken Williams at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You'll need to find someone with the proper 'head' binary (much easier than finding the source and compiling it yourself) and have them mail it to you as an attachment or whatever. There's a simpler way. Load the Mac OS X Install CD, open a Terminal window, and sudo cp /Volumes/Mac\ OS\ X\ Install\ CD/usr/bin/head /usr/bin -- Craig S. Cottingham [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: mod_perl - head - HEAD - lwp
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Craig S. Cottingham) wrote: On Monday, 21 May 2001, at 14:20:02, Ken Williams at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You'll need to find someone with the proper 'head' binary (much easier than finding the source and compiling it yourself) and have them mail it to you as an attachment or whatever. There's a simpler way. Load the Mac OS X Install CD, open a Terminal window, and sudo cp /Volumes/Mac\ OS\ X\ Install\ CD/usr/bin/head /usr/bin Oh, very good. I hadn't ever tried to poke around in the installer CD, but this is clearly an easier way to do it. Assuming you use the tab key. =) ------ Ken Williams Last Bastion of Euclidity [EMAIL PROTECTED]The Math Forum
mod_perl - head - HEAD - lwp
im also trying to get started with mod:perl on osX below is a qoute from the cpan testers: For a long time I couldn't get mod_perl to compile on Darwin. It turned out that when I installed LWP (a prerequisite for running the mod_perl tests) it created /usr/bin/HEAD, which clobbered /usr/bin/head, which is necessary during the build process. When I cleared this up, mod_perl built tested flawlessly. how do one clear this up? thanks allan
Re: mod_perl - head - HEAD - lwp
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (allan) wrote: im also trying to get started with mod:perl on osX below is a qoute from the cpan testers: For a long time I couldn't get mod_perl to compile on Darwin. It turned out that when I installed LWP (a prerequisite for running the mod_perl tests) it created /usr/bin/HEAD, which clobbered /usr/bin/head, which is necessary during the build process. When I cleared this up, mod_perl built tested flawlessly. That's from me. You'll need to find someone with the proper 'head' binary (much easier than finding the source and compiling it yourself) and have them mail it to you as an attachment or whatever. Then move 'HEAD' into /usr/local/bin/ (along with GET and POST and a few lwp-* programs), and put the real 'head' into /usr/bin/. I can send you the 'head' binary if you want. ------ Ken Williams Last Bastion of Euclidity [EMAIL PROTECTED]The Math Forum
Re: mod_perl - head - HEAD - lwp
but of course i want - thanks!! Ken Williams wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (allan) wrote: im also trying to get started with mod:perl on osX below is a qoute from the cpan testers: For a long time I couldn't get mod_perl to compile on Darwin. It turned out that when I installed LWP (a prerequisite for running the mod_perl tests) it created /usr/bin/HEAD, which clobbered /usr/bin/head, which is necessary during the build process. When I cleared this up, mod_perl built tested flawlessly. That's from me. You'll need to find someone with the proper 'head' binary (much easier than finding the source and compiling it yourself) and have them mail it to you as an attachment or whatever. Then move 'HEAD' into /usr/local/bin/ (along with GET and POST and a few lwp-* programs), and put the real 'head' into /usr/bin/. I can send you the 'head' binary if you want. ------ Ken Williams Last Bastion of Euclidity [EMAIL PROTECTED]The Math Forum
Re: /usr/bin/head is an HTTP 'HEAD' request??
So what's the best advice for installing modules with CPAN? I had the head binary wiped by the "install Bundle::CPAN" when I did this as root. Following the discussion in this thread, I'm not sure what's the best way to follow. I'm not an Unix guru. Should I play on the safe side and install everything as a simple user without root or admin permissions and set the "makepl_arg' option in CPAN to "PREFIX=~/myUserName/"? TIA -- ~ Emmanuel Dcarie - Consultant Programmation pour le Web - Programming for the Web UserLand Frontier - Perl - JavaScript - AppleScript - HTML - XML http://www.scriptdigital.com --- The Frontier Newbie Toolbox: http://www.scriptdigital.com/fnt/frontierNewbieToolbox.html
