Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

['Sabahattin Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries]

It is indeed very impressive, but still, I await the new high-end Silicon-based 
desktop Macs. If the current trajectory is any indication, they should be 
incomparable.

Cheers,
Sabahattin

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Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

[Yuma Decaux]

I can't wait to get my hands on my 16 inch 10 core 32 GPU core 16 neuro core 64 
GB ram monster coming in less than a week. I've pre-ordered it last month, and 
am currently on my iMac as I sold my old 16 inch, and I can sense the 
productivity boost it will afford me, particularly in my field of work which is 
machine learning modelling and architectures. At least for the prototyping of 
models, the macbook will be an absolute game changer.


And those function keys, they are back and so they should have always been 
mechanical.


Have a great rest of week,

yuma 


> On 18 Nov 2021, at 2:44 am, Muhammad Fayed  wrote:
> 
> That’s good to hear. 
> 
> 
> Thank you so much,
> 
> Mohamed E. Fayed 
> 
> Mohamed E. Fayed 
> 
> 
>> On 17 Nov 2021, at 1:50 AM, 'ja...@jasonjgw.net <mailto:ja...@jasonjgw.net>' 
>> via MacVisionaries > <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> I would just like to update my earlier remarks in the comment below to 
>> emphasize that the performance of the new M1 Pro hardware is very impressive 
>> indeed. It is highly responsive – and that includes VoiceOver.
>>  
>> If you’re going to buy a Mac, then the current 14-inch and 16-inch MacBook 
>> Pro models merit serious consideration for multiple reasons: the three 
>> Thunderbolt 4/USB C ports on offer , the full-sized function keys (which I 
>> appreciate), and the performance available. Of course, any purchasing 
>> decision should be made carefully in view of the individual’s specific needs 
>> and circumstances. The audio quality is better than that of my late 
>> 2013-model MacBook Pro as well, at least in my opinion. I also had no 
>> difficulty connecting a Focus 40 Blue 5thgeneration braille display either 
>> by Bluetooth or USB.
>>  
>> As it has been on my desk since its arrival, I can’t comment on battery 
>> life. I can, however, confirm that it doesn’t become hot in normal usage, 
>> although I haven’t yet tried any CPU-intensive tasks such as compiling a 
>> large software project.
>>  
>> From: 'ja...@jasonjgw.net <mailto:ja...@jasonjgw.net>' via MacVisionaries 
>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>
>> Date: Thursday, November 4, 2021 at 19:29
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>
>> Subject: Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac
>> 
>> With new MacBook Pro hardware in hand, as of yesterday, I can now comment 
>> briefly on the VoiceOver performance.
>>  
>> So far, it has been excellent. As a test, I 
>> visitedhttps://html.spec.whatwg.org/ <https://html.spec.whatwg.org/> and 
>> followed the link to the single-page version. This is a large and complex 
>> document. VoiceOver gave a “Safari is not responding” message – hardly 
>> surprising – but it wasn’t long before Safari finished loading the document, 
>> and I was able to read it.
>>  
>> I’ve had other screen readers (on Windows, especially) become completely 
>> unresponsive for minutes while loading that page, even on my 
>> high-performance “mobile workstation” laptop.
>>  
>> I hardly need to point out the significant performance improvements compared 
>> with my late 2013-model MacBook Pro.
>>  
>> Although I’ve encountered some issues with the new machine (none of them 
>> major so far), performance hasn’t yet become one of them.
>>  
>> From: 'Sabahattin Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries 
>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>
>> Date: Saturday, 1 June, 2021 at 18:06
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>
>> Subject: Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac
>> 
>> OK, I misunderstood you that you needed Windows. I mostly agree in that 
>> case; I also use Terminal and Linux VMs a lot and rarely need Windows. Even 
>> so, I think not having it at all would be a problem; there are just some 
>> things you need Windows for, including, yes, Office apps, but also running 
>> software only on Windows, like said firmware updater utility. Your situation 
>> may differ.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Sabahattin
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators d

Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

[Muhammad Fayed]

That’s good to hear. 


Thank you so much,

Mohamed E. Fayed 

Mohamed E. Fayed 


> On 17 Nov 2021, at 1:50 AM, 'ja...@jasonjgw.net' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> I would just like to update my earlier remarks in the comment below to 
> emphasize that the performance of the new M1 Pro hardware is very impressive 
> indeed. It is highly responsive – and that includes VoiceOver.
>  
> If you’re going to buy a Mac, then the current 14-inch and 16-inch MacBook 
> Pro models merit serious consideration for multiple reasons: the three 
> Thunderbolt 4/USB C ports on offer , the full-sized function keys (which I 
> appreciate), and the performance available. Of course, any purchasing 
> decision should be made carefully in view of the individual’s specific needs 
> and circumstances. The audio quality is better than that of my late 
> 2013-model MacBook Pro as well, at least in my opinion. I also had no 
> difficulty connecting a Focus 40 Blue 5th generation braille display either 
> by Bluetooth or USB.
>  
> As it has been on my desk since its arrival, I can’t comment on battery life. 
> I can, however, confirm that it doesn’t become hot in normal usage, although 
> I haven’t yet tried any CPU-intensive tasks such as compiling a large 
> software project.
>  
> From: 'ja...@jasonjgw.net' via MacVisionaries 
> 
> Date: Thursday, November 4, 2021 at 19:29
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> Subject: Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac
> 
> With new MacBook Pro hardware in hand, as of yesterday, I can now comment 
> briefly on the VoiceOver performance.
>  
> So far, it has been excellent. As a test, I visited 
> https://html.spec.whatwg.org/ and followed the link to the single-page 
> version. This is a large and complex document. VoiceOver gave a “Safari is 
> not responding” message – hardly surprising – but it wasn’t long before 
> Safari finished loading the document, and I was able to read it.
>  
> I’ve had other screen readers (on Windows, especially) become completely 
> unresponsive for minutes while loading that page, even on my high-performance 
> “mobile workstation” laptop.
>  
> I hardly need to point out the significant performance improvements compared 
> with my late 2013-model MacBook Pro.
>  
> Although I’ve encountered some issues with the new machine (none of them 
> major so far), performance hasn’t yet become one of them.
>  
> From: 'Sabahattin Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries 
> 
> Date: Saturday, 1 June, 2021 at 18:06
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> Subject: Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac
> 
> OK, I misunderstood you that you needed Windows. I mostly agree in that case; 
> I also use Terminal and Linux VMs a lot and rarely need Windows. Even so, I 
> think not having it at all would be a problem; there are just some things you 
> need Windows for, including, yes, Office apps, but also running software only 
> on Windows, like said firmware updater utility. Your situation may differ.
> 
> Cheers,
> Sabahattin
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
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> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You

Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

['ja...@jasonjgw.net' via MacVisionaries]

I would just like to update my earlier remarks in the comment below to 
emphasize that the performance of the new M1 Pro hardware is very impressive 
indeed. It is highly responsive – and that includes VoiceOver.

If you’re going to buy a Mac, then the current 14-inch and 16-inch MacBook Pro 
models merit serious consideration for multiple reasons: the three Thunderbolt 
4/USB C ports on offer , the full-sized function keys (which I appreciate), and 
the performance available. Of course, any purchasing decision should be made 
carefully in view of the individual’s specific needs and circumstances. The 
audio quality is better than that of my late 2013-model MacBook Pro as well, at 
least in my opinion. I also had no difficulty connecting a Focus 40 Blue 5th 
generation braille display either by Bluetooth or USB.

As it has been on my desk since its arrival, I can’t comment on battery life. I 
can, however, confirm that it doesn’t become hot in normal usage, although I 
haven’t yet tried any CPU-intensive tasks such as compiling a large software 
project.

From: 'ja...@jasonjgw.net' via MacVisionaries 
Date: Thursday, November 4, 2021 at 19:29
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
Subject: Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac
With new MacBook Pro hardware in hand, as of yesterday, I can now comment 
briefly on the VoiceOver performance.

So far, it has been excellent. As a test, I visited 
https://html.spec.whatwg.org/ and followed the link to the single-page version. 
This is a large and complex document. VoiceOver gave a “Safari is not 
responding” message – hardly surprising – but it wasn’t long before Safari 
finished loading the document, and I was able to read it.

I’ve had other screen readers (on Windows, especially) become completely 
unresponsive for minutes while loading that page, even on my high-performance 
“mobile workstation” laptop.

I hardly need to point out the significant performance improvements compared 
with my late 2013-model MacBook Pro.

Although I’ve encountered some issues with the new machine (none of them major 
so far), performance hasn’t yet become one of them.

From: 'Sabahattin Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries 

Date: Saturday, 1 June, 2021 at 18:06
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
Subject: Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac
OK, I misunderstood you that you needed Windows. I mostly agree in that case; I 
also use Terminal and Linux VMs a lot and rarely need Windows. Even so, I think 
not having it at all would be a problem; there are just some things you need 
Windows for, including, yes, Office apps, but also running software only on 
Windows, like said firmware updater utility. Your situation may differ.

Cheers,
Sabahattin

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caraqu...@caraquinn.com

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Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

['ja...@jasonjgw.net' via MacVisionaries]

With new MacBook Pro hardware in hand, as of yesterday, I can now comment 
briefly on the VoiceOver performance.

So far, it has been excellent. As a test, I visited 
https://html.spec.whatwg.org/ and followed the link to the single-page version. 
This is a large and complex document. VoiceOver gave a “Safari is not 
responding” message – hardly surprising – but it wasn’t long before Safari 
finished loading the document, and I was able to read it.

I’ve had other screen readers (on Windows, especially) become completely 
unresponsive for minutes while loading that page, even on my high-performance 
“mobile workstation” laptop.

I hardly need to point out the significant performance improvements compared 
with my late 2013-model MacBook Pro.

Although I’ve encountered some issues with the new machine (none of them major 
so far), performance hasn’t yet become one of them.

From: 'Sabahattin Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries 

Date: Saturday, 1 June, 2021 at 18:06
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
Subject: Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac
OK, I misunderstood you that you needed Windows. I mostly agree in that case; I 
also use Terminal and Linux VMs a lot and rarely need Windows. Even so, I think 
not having it at all would be a problem; there are just some things you need 
Windows for, including, yes, Office apps, but also running software only on 
Windows, like said firmware updater utility. Your situation may differ.

Cheers,
Sabahattin

--
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caraqu...@caraquinn.com

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Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

['Sabahattin Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries]

OK, I misunderstood you that you needed Windows. I mostly agree in that case; I 
also use Terminal and Linux VMs a lot and rarely need Windows. Even so, I think 
not having it at all would be a problem; there are just some things you need 
Windows for, including, yes, Office apps, but also running software only on 
Windows, like said firmware updater utility. Your situation may differ.

Cheers,
Sabahattin

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Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

[Muhammad Fayed]

BY THE WAY, I use terminal utilities to do whatever I want with open source 
software. I don’t need Windows nowadays at all.

I’m totally blind, so it is expected not to generate good view word documents 
or presentations.

According to me, not being able to run windows on a Mac machine is not a big 
deal. I’m just talking about the principle itself which I think should be the 
case.

Regards,

Mohamed E. Fayed 

> On 29 Oct 2021, at 1:03 PM, 'Sabahattin Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> I just reinstalled a Windows VM to run a firmware update utility for the 
> Focus 5 display. Says it all, really. I did not even bother entering a 
> product key, password, or account. It was the shortest-lived Windows VM 
> imaginable.
> 
> I agree that your situation is deeply grim, but much as it pains me to say 
> it, I think you have to keep your options as wide open as possible. If you 
> can, get a modern Intel MBP before they disappear. Until such time as x86_64 
> Windows can be made to run on Apple Silicon, that would appear to be your 
> best shot for now. macOS and VoiceOver is a tool in the toolbox, but 
> sometimes it’s not enough.
> 
> Cheers,
> Sabahattin
> 
> -- 
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> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
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> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

[Muhammad Fayed]

I won’t buy a new device soon. I just want to know the different user 
experience between Apple Silicon and Intel Mac. I want to know how much does it 
affect Voiceover user experience.

Regarding running windows on Mac, you can now tell “it is an optional thing”. I 
wrote my last email because I want it to stay the same in the future. I don’t 
want to hear in the future “Getting windows to run on Mac is impossible. You 
need to run windows on windows machine and Mac on Mac machine”. I don’t want to 
hear it and the reason is explained in the previous emails. 

Of course, I won’t pay a penny in a machine to live with me for 3 yers or so. 
Getting updates to Intel Macs is not guaranteed for the next 5 years. I don’t 
guarantee to get spare parts to fix it in case of any hardware failures. I hope 
I could keep my MBP 2016 15” running for as long as I need windows during that 
transition period to Arm. I hope.

Regards,

Mohamed E. Fayed 




> On 29 Oct 2021, at 1:03 PM, 'Sabahattin Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> I just reinstalled a Windows VM to run a firmware update utility for the 
> Focus 5 display. Says it all, really. I did not even bother entering a 
> product key, password, or account. It was the shortest-lived Windows VM 
> imaginable.
> 
> I agree that your situation is deeply grim, but much as it pains me to say 
> it, I think you have to keep your options as wide open as possible. If you 
> can, get a modern Intel MBP before they disappear. Until such time as x86_64 
> Windows can be made to run on Apple Silicon, that would appear to be your 
> best shot for now. macOS and VoiceOver is a tool in the toolbox, but 
> sometimes it’s not enough.
> 
> Cheers,
> Sabahattin
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
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> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
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> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
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> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

['Sabahattin Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries]

I just reinstalled a Windows VM to run a firmware update utility for the Focus 
5 display. Says it all, really. I did not even bother entering a product key, 
password, or account. It was the shortest-lived Windows VM imaginable.

I agree that your situation is deeply grim, but much as it pains me to say it, 
I think you have to keep your options as wide open as possible. If you can, get 
a modern Intel MBP before they disappear. Until such time as x86_64 Windows can 
be made to run on Apple Silicon, that would appear to be your best shot for 
now. macOS and VoiceOver is a tool in the toolbox, but sometimes it’s not 
enough.

Cheers,
Sabahattin

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Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

[Muhammad Fayed]

Keep in mind that my calculations does not include my country’s taxes in 
calculating the number of months required to get a new device whether it is an 
iPhone or MBP. That is a different story and not everyone knows a person to get 
him/her a laptop from low tax country.

Regards,

Mohamed E. Fayed 

> On 28 Oct 2021, at 7:34 AM, Muhammad Fayed  wrote:
> 
> The key factor is the budget. 
> 
> I live in Egypt. The exchange rate is 1USD to 16EGP or so. The salaries here 
> are not high. There are a lot of taxes. Actually, I requested from someone to 
> get me my iPhone 10s when it came out. Getting it from USA New York State 
> costed me 6K EGP less money. If I decided to get it from tax free state I 
> would have spent less. 6K EGP may be the entire salary of a month and not 
> what you save during that month. If we talk about savings, you can save 
> around 1K EGP if you properly manage your spends. So, getting a new device 
> whether it is a laptop is prohibitively expensive. So, it is either a Mac or 
> Windows machine. You can find the exact calculations of getting iPhone 10s at 
> the end of this email.
> 
> According to my specific case, I prefer Mac because of easiness of use and it 
> has more benefits to my work and productivity than windows. Since Windows 
> free license is enough to me, it is better to get a single machine that runs 
> both Operating Systems Mac and windows. It is not the best, but my budget 
> does not allow me to get more.
> 
> The blind community may have such issues across the globe for different 
> reasons, so it is better in the specific cases of laptop users, to have a 
> single machine for both. Smartphones are essential now for almost everyone, 
> but laptops are not.
> 
> 
> iPhone 10s calculations:
> I bought iPhone 10s of 256GB storage. That costed without taxes $1149. 
> After taxes in New York it costed $1251
> With exchange rate: $1251 * 16 = 20016  EGP # Note: I don’t remember the 
> exact exchange rate back then, but I remember the number was 22000 EGP or so.
> The cost of the exact same iPhone in Egypt Apple resellers was 28000 EGP.
> I save 28000-22000 = 6000 EGP.
> Regarding savings and how frequent can I get a new $1251 iPhone:
> Assume I save per month 1000 EGP, 
> Required number of months 22000/1000= 22 monthes (around 2 years)
> Assume I need to get a new Mac every 6 years:
> For $25000 MBP :
> Current exchange rate is less than 16EGP per 1USD, so I will assume it is 
> 15EGP per 1USD for now.
> Cost before taxes is 2500 * 15 =  37500EGP
> Assume same savings per month and same exchange rate and increase in salary 
> just cover the inflation, so I still save 1000 EGP per month as well,
> Number of months required to get a new MBP is 37500 / 1000 = 37.5 months 
> (around 3 years and 2 months of savings)
> 
> Since we are blind users, new technologies are beneficial for us to deal 
> better with normal people. For example OCR is crucial in the world where 
> people start sharing a lot of images on social media even text is shared in 
> form of images. So, those who still have iPhone 6/6s or whatever such old 
> iPhone, they don’t recognize text because of slow devices and none supported 
> feature or just slow enough that they prefer not to use from the beginning.  
> These devices, according to me at least, are my eyes to the world. Getting 
> the more features is just better.
> 
> I wrote all of that explaining why it is better for blind users to have a 
> single machine with multiple operating systems. This machine may be expensive 
> enough that we can’t get another soon.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Mohamed E. Fayed 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 26 Oct 2021, at 3:33 AM, Rebecca Skipper > <mailto:skipper8...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> I think that we should avoid running Windows on Mac and Mac on Windows.
>> Having used both operating systems to some degree, I've learned that each 
>> one works best in their native environments.
>> I find Mac's supported apps limited and wish I could run more IOS apps on 
>> the Mac.
>> I have to use two devices to get the same things accomplished that I could 
>> do on Windows.
>> To be fair though, I'm not familiar with Pages.
>> I hope OCR continues to improve.
>> Use both operating systems if you depend on technology for work.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-----
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> > <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> On Behalf Of Muhammad Fayed
>> Sent: Monday, October 25, 2021 8:54 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
>> Subject: Re: Apple Silicon v

Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

[Muhammad Fayed]

The key factor is the budget. 

I live in Egypt. The exchange rate is 1USD to 16EGP or so. The salaries here 
are not high. There are a lot of taxes. Actually, I requested from someone to 
get me my iPhone 10s when it came out. Getting it from USA New York State 
costed me 6K EGP less money. If I decided to get it from tax free state I would 
have spent less. 6K EGP may be the entire salary of a month and not what you 
save during that month. If we talk about savings, you can save around 1K EGP if 
you properly manage your spends. So, getting a new device whether it is a 
laptop is prohibitively expensive. So, it is either a Mac or Windows machine. 
You can find the exact calculations of getting iPhone 10s at the end of this 
email.

According to my specific case, I prefer Mac because of easiness of use and it 
has more benefits to my work and productivity than windows. Since Windows free 
license is enough to me, it is better to get a single machine that runs both 
Operating Systems Mac and windows. It is not the best, but my budget does not 
allow me to get more.

The blind community may have such issues across the globe for different 
reasons, so it is better in the specific cases of laptop users, to have a 
single machine for both. Smartphones are essential now for almost everyone, but 
laptops are not.


iPhone 10s calculations:
I bought iPhone 10s of 256GB storage. That costed without taxes $1149. 
After taxes in New York it costed $1251
With exchange rate: $1251 * 16 = 20016  EGP # Note: I don’t remember the exact 
exchange rate back then, but I remember the number was 22000 EGP or so.
The cost of the exact same iPhone in Egypt Apple resellers was 28000 EGP.
I save 28000-22000 = 6000 EGP.
Regarding savings and how frequent can I get a new $1251 iPhone:
Assume I save per month 1000 EGP, 
Required number of months 22000/1000= 22 monthes (around 2 years)
Assume I need to get a new Mac every 6 years:
For $25000 MBP :
Current exchange rate is less than 16EGP per 1USD, so I will assume it is 15EGP 
per 1USD for now.
Cost before taxes is 2500 * 15 =  37500EGP
Assume same savings per month and same exchange rate and increase in salary 
just cover the inflation, so I still save 1000 EGP per month as well,
Number of months required to get a new MBP is 37500 / 1000 = 37.5 months 
(around 3 years and 2 months of savings)

Since we are blind users, new technologies are beneficial for us to deal better 
with normal people. For example OCR is crucial in the world where people start 
sharing a lot of images on social media even text is shared in form of images. 
So, those who still have iPhone 6/6s or whatever such old iPhone, they don’t 
recognize text because of slow devices and none supported feature or just slow 
enough that they prefer not to use from the beginning.  These devices, 
according to me at least, are my eyes to the world. Getting the more features 
is just better.

I wrote all of that explaining why it is better for blind users to have a 
single machine with multiple operating systems. This machine may be expensive 
enough that we can’t get another soon.

Regards,

Mohamed E. Fayed 



> On 26 Oct 2021, at 3:33 AM, Rebecca Skipper  wrote:
> 
> I think that we should avoid running Windows on Mac and Mac on Windows.
> Having used both operating systems to some degree, I've learned that each one 
> works best in their native environments.
> I find Mac's supported apps limited and wish I could run more IOS apps on the 
> Mac.
> I have to use two devices to get the same things accomplished that I could do 
> on Windows.
> To be fair though, I'm not familiar with Pages.
> I hope OCR continues to improve.
> Use both operating systems if you depend on technology for work.
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
> Behalf Of Muhammad Fayed
> Sent: Monday, October 25, 2021 8:54 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac
> 
> What is meant by running Mac OS on windows is that you have a windows 
> machine, and create Mac OS virtual machine using whatever virtualization 
> software.
> 
> This has a couple of issues:
> 1. It is illegal. As the user agreement of Mac OS, you should not run Mac OS 
> on any non Apple machine. I don’t remember the exact text, but it is easily 
> understandable.
> 2. It is very slow compared to getting a Mac machine and run windows on it 
> using virtualization.
> 
> HTH,
> 
> Mohamed E. Fayed 
> 
>> On 25 Oct 2021, at 7:06 PM, 'Sabahattin Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Sorry, I don’t know what you mean by “running Mac on Windows”.
>> 
>> You can already virtualise (that is, create a virtual environment for) and 
>> dual-boot (that is, reboot and then start as though on a PC) Windows. Macs 
>>

Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

['Sabahattin Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries]

My experience of iOS apps on Apple Silicon is that while it works in principle, 
you probably will find that it’s more trouble than it’s worth in practice. It 
does depend on several factors, but especially apps that have web views in them 
are surprisingly difficult to manage. Catalyst (what modern Mac system apps are 
made of) is better (again, depending on the app and developer) but not, IMO, to 
an enduring degree.

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Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

['Jason White' via MacVisionaries]

If you’re using an M1-based Mac system, you can run various iOS applications on it. I won’t be able to test this until my hardware arrives, but I have heard reports that VoiceOver for Mac performs well in this scenario. On 10/25/21, 21:33, "macvisionaries@googlegroups.com"  wrote:I think that we should avoid running Windows on Mac and Mac on Windows.Having used both operating systems to some degree, I've learned that each one works best in their native environments.I find Mac's supported apps limited and wish I could run more IOS apps on the Mac.I have to use two devices to get the same things accomplished that I could do on Windows.To be fair though, I'm not familiar with Pages.I hope OCR continues to improve.Use both operating systems if you depend on technology for work.   -Original Message-From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Muhammad FayedSent: Monday, October 25, 2021 8:54 PMTo: macvisionaries@googlegroups.comSubject: Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac What is meant by running Mac OS on windows is that you have a windows machine, and create Mac OS virtual machine using whatever virtualization software. This has a couple of issues:1. It is illegal. As the user agreement of Mac OS, you should not run Mac OS on any non Apple machine. I don’t remember the exact text, but it is easily understandable.2. It is very slow compared to getting a Mac machine and run windows on it using virtualization. HTH, Mohamed E. Fayed  > On 25 Oct 2021, at 7:06 PM, 'Sabahattin Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:> > Sorry, I don’t know what you mean by “running Mac on Windows”.> > You can already virtualise (that is, create a virtual environment for) and dual-boot (that is, reboot and then start as though on a PC) Windows. Macs make very fine Windows machines either way, providing you understand the limitations of the hardware and driver support. Modern Windows is very power-efficient and if you configure it correctly it can run every bit as nicely as macOS, although on notebooks with discrete GPUs Apple has always prejudiced the integrated GPU (there are workarounds, if you know where to look).> > I mostly run Apple stock apps on my Macs, but the bulk of it is in Linux VMs or Terminal. Any consideration to move exclusively to Apple Silicon would mean, for me, deciding which platform was the lesser evil for essentially day-to-day apps; I would simply have to have (and carry about) multiple machines, otherwise. Right now my iMac does the work, and runs both platforms well, but I don’t boot Windows very often at all and it might simply be time to leave Windows behind altogether when travelling. Alternatively, of course, I purchase a cheap Apple Silicon notebook for the few (and, I’ll be honest, generally less important) things macOS does well, and begin the painful transition back to Windows full-time. I’m not sure which, yet. Given that my VMs are Linux, and Windows now has WSL for Linux command-line software, it’s actually not an easy call to make any more—I think the reason I’m stuck to macOS is mostly familiarity and the overall experience, but it clearly also has limitations that would be amplified by Apple Silicon and not having Windows around as rescue, however infrequently that actually happens.> > I don’t know the accessibility status of Windows 365, but I don’t really fancy renting my computer in the cloud. My beef with Windows as a platform isn’t such that I’d avoid it at all costs, but realistically I’d have to use it on a day to day basis and the cloud isn’t good value for that.> > Cheers,> Sabahattin> > -- > The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries list> > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.> > Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com> > The archives for this list can be searched at:> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/> --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group.> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/FC7EAB65-5EB2-4CAC-9841-8234E769D388%40me.com.-- The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators

Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

[maurice mines]

Hello again, for those of us with multiple disabilities in my additional 
disability is hidden I am required! Use Windows on Mac just simply 
because there is again no comparable dictation software on the Mac side 
that even remotely approaches Dragon for Windows at this time. That 
means I'm forced to use this system. If I'm to be believed at all in any 
endeavor I pursue. When it comes to writing. The joys of having dyslexia 
of writing. By the way please don't laugh this is actually a diagnosed 
disability.


Finally I think everybody should be aware that parallels does this job 
quite well sadly it is the only game in town it works on Intel-based 
Macs and the M1 box equally. I'm actually using Windows 11 virtually yes 
what the software TMP. Correction TPM. Be well, stay safeAnd I'll keep 
reading everyone's posts. Bye for now.


On 10/25/2021 6:33 PM, Rebecca Skipper wrote:

I think that we should avoid running Windows on Mac and Mac on Windows.
Having used both operating systems to some degree, I've learned that each one 
works best in their native environments.
I find Mac's supported apps limited and wish I could run more IOS apps on the 
Mac.
I have to use two devices to get the same things accomplished that I could do 
on Windows.
To be fair though, I'm not familiar with Pages.
I hope OCR continues to improve.
Use both operating systems if you depend on technology for work.



-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Muhammad Fayed
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2021 8:54 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

What is meant by running Mac OS on windows is that you have a windows machine, 
and create Mac OS virtual machine using whatever virtualization software.

This has a couple of issues:
1. It is illegal. As the user agreement of Mac OS, you should not run Mac OS on 
any non Apple machine. I don’t remember the exact text, but it is easily 
understandable.
2. It is very slow compared to getting a Mac machine and run windows on it 
using virtualization.

HTH,

Mohamed E. Fayed


On 25 Oct 2021, at 7:06 PM, 'Sabahattin Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

Sorry, I don’t know what you mean by “running Mac on Windows”.

You can already virtualise (that is, create a virtual environment for) and 
dual-boot (that is, reboot and then start as though on a PC) Windows. Macs make 
very fine Windows machines either way, providing you understand the limitations 
of the hardware and driver support. Modern Windows is very power-efficient and 
if you configure it correctly it can run every bit as nicely as macOS, although 
on notebooks with discrete GPUs Apple has always prejudiced the integrated GPU 
(there are workarounds, if you know where to look).

I mostly run Apple stock apps on my Macs, but the bulk of it is in Linux VMs or 
Terminal. Any consideration to move exclusively to Apple Silicon would mean, 
for me, deciding which platform was the lesser evil for essentially day-to-day 
apps; I would simply have to have (and carry about) multiple machines, 
otherwise. Right now my iMac does the work, and runs both platforms well, but I 
don’t boot Windows very often at all and it might simply be time to leave 
Windows behind altogether when travelling. Alternatively, of course, I purchase 
a cheap Apple Silicon notebook for the few (and, I’ll be honest, generally less 
important) things macOS does well, and begin the painful transition back to 
Windows full-time. I’m not sure which, yet. Given that my VMs are Linux, and 
Windows now has WSL for Linux command-line software, it’s actually not an easy 
call to make any more—I think the reason I’m stuck to macOS is mostly 
familiarity and the overall experience, but it clearly also has limitations 
that would be amplified by Apple Silicon and not having Windows around as 
rescue, however infrequently that actually happens.

I don’t know the accessibility status of Windows 365, but I don’t really fancy 
renting my computer in the cloud. My beef with Windows as a platform isn’t such 
that I’d avoid it at all costs, but realistically I’d have to use it on a day 
to day basis and the cloud isn’t good value for that.

Cheers,
Sabahattin

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RE: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

[Rebecca Skipper]

I think that we should avoid running Windows on Mac and Mac on Windows.
Having used both operating systems to some degree, I've learned that each one 
works best in their native environments.
I find Mac's supported apps limited and wish I could run more IOS apps on the 
Mac.
I have to use two devices to get the same things accomplished that I could do 
on Windows.
To be fair though, I'm not familiar with Pages.
I hope OCR continues to improve.
Use both operating systems if you depend on technology for work.



-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Muhammad Fayed
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2021 8:54 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

What is meant by running Mac OS on windows is that you have a windows machine, 
and create Mac OS virtual machine using whatever virtualization software.

This has a couple of issues:
1. It is illegal. As the user agreement of Mac OS, you should not run Mac OS on 
any non Apple machine. I don’t remember the exact text, but it is easily 
understandable.
2. It is very slow compared to getting a Mac machine and run windows on it 
using virtualization.

HTH,

Mohamed E. Fayed 

> On 25 Oct 2021, at 7:06 PM, 'Sabahattin Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Sorry, I don’t know what you mean by “running Mac on Windows”.
> 
> You can already virtualise (that is, create a virtual environment for) and 
> dual-boot (that is, reboot and then start as though on a PC) Windows. Macs 
> make very fine Windows machines either way, providing you understand the 
> limitations of the hardware and driver support. Modern Windows is very 
> power-efficient and if you configure it correctly it can run every bit as 
> nicely as macOS, although on notebooks with discrete GPUs Apple has always 
> prejudiced the integrated GPU (there are workarounds, if you know where to 
> look).
> 
> I mostly run Apple stock apps on my Macs, but the bulk of it is in Linux VMs 
> or Terminal. Any consideration to move exclusively to Apple Silicon would 
> mean, for me, deciding which platform was the lesser evil for essentially 
> day-to-day apps; I would simply have to have (and carry about) multiple 
> machines, otherwise. Right now my iMac does the work, and runs both platforms 
> well, but I don’t boot Windows very often at all and it might simply be time 
> to leave Windows behind altogether when travelling. Alternatively, of course, 
> I purchase a cheap Apple Silicon notebook for the few (and, I’ll be honest, 
> generally less important) things macOS does well, and begin the painful 
> transition back to Windows full-time. I’m not sure which, yet. Given that my 
> VMs are Linux, and Windows now has WSL for Linux command-line software, it’s 
> actually not an easy call to make any more—I think the reason I’m stuck to 
> macOS is mostly familiarity and the overall experience, but it clearly also 
> has limitations that would be amplified by Apple Silicon and not having 
> Windows around as rescue, however infrequently that actually happens.
> 
> I don’t know the accessibility status of Windows 365, but I don’t really 
> fancy renting my computer in the cloud. My beef with Windows as a platform 
> isn’t such that I’d avoid it at all costs, but realistically I’d have to use 
> it on a day to day basis and the cloud isn’t good value for that.
> 
> Cheers,
> Sabahattin
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/FC7EAB65-5EB2-4CAC-9841-8234E769D388%40me.com.

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Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You ca

Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

[Muhammad Fayed]

What is meant by running Mac OS on windows is that you have a windows machine, 
and create Mac OS virtual machine using whatever virtualization software.

This has a couple of issues:
1. It is illegal. As the user agreement of Mac OS, you should not run Mac OS on 
any non Apple machine. I don’t remember the exact text, but it is easily 
understandable.
2. It is very slow compared to getting a Mac machine and run windows on it 
using virtualization.

HTH,

Mohamed E. Fayed 

> On 25 Oct 2021, at 7:06 PM, 'Sabahattin Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Sorry, I don’t know what you mean by “running Mac on Windows”.
> 
> You can already virtualise (that is, create a virtual environment for) and 
> dual-boot (that is, reboot and then start as though on a PC) Windows. Macs 
> make very fine Windows machines either way, providing you understand the 
> limitations of the hardware and driver support. Modern Windows is very 
> power-efficient and if you configure it correctly it can run every bit as 
> nicely as macOS, although on notebooks with discrete GPUs Apple has always 
> prejudiced the integrated GPU (there are workarounds, if you know where to 
> look).
> 
> I mostly run Apple stock apps on my Macs, but the bulk of it is in Linux VMs 
> or Terminal. Any consideration to move exclusively to Apple Silicon would 
> mean, for me, deciding which platform was the lesser evil for essentially 
> day-to-day apps; I would simply have to have (and carry about) multiple 
> machines, otherwise. Right now my iMac does the work, and runs both platforms 
> well, but I don’t boot Windows very often at all and it might simply be time 
> to leave Windows behind altogether when travelling. Alternatively, of course, 
> I purchase a cheap Apple Silicon notebook for the few (and, I’ll be honest, 
> generally less important) things macOS does well, and begin the painful 
> transition back to Windows full-time. I’m not sure which, yet. Given that my 
> VMs are Linux, and Windows now has WSL for Linux command-line software, it’s 
> actually not an easy call to make any more—I think the reason I’m stuck to 
> macOS is mostly familiarity and the overall experience, but it clearly also 
> has limitations that would be amplified by Apple Silicon and not having 
> Windows around as rescue, however infrequently that actually happens.
> 
> I don’t know the accessibility status of Windows 365, but I don’t really 
> fancy renting my computer in the cloud. My beef with Windows as a platform 
> isn’t such that I’d avoid it at all costs, but realistically I’d have to use 
> it on a day to day basis and the cloud isn’t good value for that.
> 
> Cheers,
> Sabahattin
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
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> 
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> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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RE: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

[Rebecca Skipper]

I think the best option for consumers is to get both operating systems if they 
can.

There are things I still prefer on Windows.

 

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Herbie Allen
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2021 7:31 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

 

You need an Intel Mac if you are wanting to run Windows. I have also heard 
Parallels is not accessible so if you are have or are getting an m1 Mac, you 
will most likely need a separate machine if you want Windows. 





On Oct 25, 2021, at 16:58, Rebecca Skipper mailto:skipper8...@gmail.com> > wrote:

 

Thanks.

This is another reason why I’ve given up on the idea of installing Windows on a 
Mac.

 

From: 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> > 
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2021 5:53 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> 
Subject: Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

 

Parallels has had a reputation for not being accessible with VoiceOver. 
However, I don’t have it installed, so I can’t comment on the latest version.

 

Note that unless Microsoft decides to license Windows for ARM processors for 
Apple devices, it won’t be legal (even if technically possible) to run Windows 
11 under Parallels, VMWare, or other virtualization solutions in Mac OS.

 

Linux, by contrast, doesn’t have this problem: you can run as many Linux 
virtual machines as you wish.

 

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>  
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> > on 
behalf of Rebecca Skipper mailto:skipper8...@gmail.com> 
>
Date: Monday, October 25, 2021 at 15:35
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>  
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> >
Subject: RE: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

Is parallels on M1 accessible with voiceover?

I prefer the Mac’s menu driven system and its mail app.

 

From: 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> > 
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2021 12:28 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> 
Subject: Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

 

I don’t use any Windows applications for which there isn’t a Mac OS equivalent. 
I have them installed in parallel, on separate machines, and I can use either. 
As to which it best, it depends on the application. For example, Microsoft 
Outlook for Mac is better than the Windows version in ways that matter to me – 
including the fact that the Mac version doesn’t crash very often, whereas the 
Windows version does. On the other hand, Microsoft Word is more accessible 
under Windows, but I’m a very occasional Microsoft Word user, and could 
probably substitute Pages easily for those few situations.

 

I read an article a while ago which claimed that most Mac users these days 
don’t need Windows for anything whatsoever. Apparently, survey results show 
overwhelmingly that most Mac users don’t install Windows. So it may be that the 
number of users who want to do this isn’t large enough for Apple or Microsoft 
to care about anymore. The signals from Microsoft indicate that they have no 
plan to license Windows 11 for ARM to run on Mac M1 hardware or its successors 
– they’ve officially described this as an “unsupported scenario”. The 
virtualization vendors may well find that there’s no Windows for ARM licensing 
option available for their customers on Mac.

 

On 10/25/21, 10:43, "macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> " mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> > wrote:

When I purchased my M1 machine in June, I was informed that Boot Camp no longer 
existed and that was machines If it had, I probably would’ve installed windows 
on the same machine. Personally, at this point, I am OK with running a separate 
machine although I will say that I’m spending almost all of my time on the Mac 
side. If I had installed windows, I don’t think that would’ve been the case. So 
maybe it’s for the best. I think Apple would think so.

 

Sent from my iPhone

 

> On Oct 25, 2021, at 9:52 AM, Rebecca Skipper  <mailto:skipper8...@gmail.com> > wrote:

> 

> I have an M1 Mac not an Intel Mac.

> I haven't heard anything about Bootcamp working on the M1, and why mess up a 
> good machine since I already have a windows computer.

> If someone needed windows and still wanted a mac why not just buy a Mac Mini 
> and a Windows Tablet.

> 

> 

> -Original Message-

> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroupscom> 
>  mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> > 
> On Behalf Of Herbie Allen

> Sent: Monday, October 25, 2021 9:29 AM

> To: macv

Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

[Herbie Allen]

You need an Intel Mac if you are wanting to run Windows. I have also heard 
Parallels is not accessible so if you are have or are getting an m1 Mac, you 
will most likely need a separate machine if you want Windows. 

> On Oct 25, 2021, at 16:58, Rebecca Skipper  wrote:
> 
> Thanks.
> This is another reason why I’ve given up on the idea of installing Windows on 
> a Mac.
>  
> From: 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries  
> Sent: Monday, October 25, 2021 5:53 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac
>  
> Parallels has had a reputation for not being accessible with VoiceOver. 
> However, I don’t have it installed, so I can’t comment on the latest version.
>  
> Note that unless Microsoft decides to license Windows for ARM processors for 
> Apple devices, it won’t be legal (even if technically possible) to run 
> Windows 11 under Parallels, VMWare, or other virtualization solutions in Mac 
> OS.
>  
> Linux, by contrast, doesn’t have this problem: you can run as many Linux 
> virtual machines as you wish.
>  
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>  <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> on behalf of Rebecca Skipper 
> mailto:skipper8...@gmail.com>>
> Date: Monday, October 25, 2021 at 15:35
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> 
> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>
> Subject: RE: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac
> 
> Is parallels on M1 accessible with voiceover?
> I prefer the Mac’s menu driven system and its mail app.
>  
> From: 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries  <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
> Sent: Monday, October 25, 2021 12:28 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
> Subject: Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac
>  
> I don’t use any Windows applications for which there isn’t a Mac OS 
> equivalent. I have them installed in parallel, on separate machines, and I 
> can use either. As to which it best, it depends on the application. For 
> example, Microsoft Outlook for Mac is better than the Windows version in ways 
> that matter to me – including the fact that the Mac version doesn’t crash 
> very often, whereas the Windows version does. On the other hand, Microsoft 
> Word is more accessible under Windows, but I’m a very occasional Microsoft 
> Word user, and could probably substitute Pages easily for those few 
> situations.
>  
> I read an article a while ago which claimed that most Mac users these days 
> don’t need Windows for anything whatsoever. Apparently, survey results show 
> overwhelmingly that most Mac users don’t install Windows. So it may be that 
> the number of users who want to do this isn’t large enough for Apple or 
> Microsoft to care about anymore. The signals from Microsoft indicate that 
> they have no plan to license Windows 11 for ARM to run on Mac M1 hardware or 
> its successors – they’ve officially described this as an “unsupported 
> scenario”. The virtualization vendors may well find that there’s no Windows 
> for ARM licensing option available for their customers on Mac.
>  
> On 10/25/21, 10:43, "macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>"  <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
> 
> When I purchased my M1 machine in June, I was informed that Boot Camp no 
> longer existed and that was machines If it had, I probably would’ve installed 
> windows on the same machine. Personally, at this point, I am OK with running 
> a separate machine although I will say that I’m spending almost all of my 
> time on the Mac side. If I had installed windows, I don’t think that would’ve 
> been the case. So maybe it’s for the best. I think Apple would think so.
>  
> Sent from my iPhone
>  
> > On Oct 25, 2021, at 9:52 AM, Rebecca Skipper  > <mailto:skipper8...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > I have an M1 Mac not an Intel Mac.
> > I haven't heard anything about Bootcamp working on the M1, and why mess up 
> > a good machine since I already have a windows computer.
> > If someone needed windows and still wanted a mac why not just buy a Mac 
> > Mini and a Windows Tablet.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> > <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroupscom>  > <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> On Behalf Of Herbie Allen
> > Sent: Monday, October 25, 2021 9:29 AM
> > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>
> >

RE: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

[Rebecca Skipper]

Thanks.

This is another reason why I’ve given up on the idea of installing Windows on a 
Mac.

 

From: 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries  
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2021 5:53 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

 

Parallels has had a reputation for not being accessible with VoiceOver. 
However, I don’t have it installed, so I can’t comment on the latest version.

 

Note that unless Microsoft decides to license Windows for ARM processors for 
Apple devices, it won’t be legal (even if technically possible) to run Windows 
11 under Parallels, VMWare, or other virtualization solutions in Mac OS.

 

Linux, by contrast, doesn’t have this problem: you can run as many Linux 
virtual machines as you wish.

 

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>  
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> > on 
behalf of Rebecca Skipper mailto:skipper8...@gmail.com> 
>
Date: Monday, October 25, 2021 at 15:35
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>  
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> >
Subject: RE: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

Is parallels on M1 accessible with voiceover?

I prefer the Mac’s menu driven system and its mail app.

 

From: 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> > 
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2021 12:28 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> 
Subject: Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

 

I don’t use any Windows applications for which there isn’t a Mac OS equivalent. 
I have them installed in parallel, on separate machines, and I can use either. 
As to which it best, it depends on the application. For example, Microsoft 
Outlook for Mac is better than the Windows version in ways that matter to me – 
including the fact that the Mac version doesn’t crash very often, whereas the 
Windows version does. On the other hand, Microsoft Word is more accessible 
under Windows, but I’m a very occasional Microsoft Word user, and could 
probably substitute Pages easily for those few situations.

 

I read an article a while ago which claimed that most Mac users these days 
don’t need Windows for anything whatsoever. Apparently, survey results show 
overwhelmingly that most Mac users don’t install Windows. So it may be that the 
number of users who want to do this isn’t large enough for Apple or Microsoft 
to care about anymore. The signals from Microsoft indicate that they have no 
plan to license Windows 11 for ARM to run on Mac M1 hardware or its successors 
– they’ve officially described this as an “unsupported scenario”. The 
virtualization vendors may well find that there’s no Windows for ARM licensing 
option available for their customers on Mac.

 

On 10/25/21, 10:43, "macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> " mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> > wrote:

When I purchased my M1 machine in June, I was informed that Boot Camp no longer 
existed and that was machines If it had, I probably would’ve installed windows 
on the same machine. Personally, at this point, I am OK with running a separate 
machine although I will say that I’m spending almost all of my time on the Mac 
side. If I had installed windows, I don’t think that would’ve been the case. So 
maybe it’s for the best. I think Apple would think so.

 

Sent from my iPhone

 

> On Oct 25, 2021, at 9:52 AM, Rebecca Skipper  <mailto:skipper8...@gmail.com> > wrote:

> 

> I have an M1 Mac not an Intel Mac.

> I haven't heard anything about Bootcamp working on the M1, and why mess up a 
> good machine since I already have a windows computer.

> If someone needed windows and still wanted a mac why not just buy a Mac Mini 
> and a Windows Tablet.

> 

> 

> -Original Message-

> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroupscom> 
>  mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> > 
> On Behalf Of Herbie Allen

> Sent: Monday, October 25, 2021 9:29 AM

> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> 

> Subject: Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

> 

> I don’t think it’s possible to run Mac on Windows. . What is making you 
> change your mind about running Window’s on Bootcamp? I like the fact that I 
> get a clean install and a machin that has much better hardware. My only 
> limitation is that if I ever get a newer Mac, I will either have to switch to 
> the  365 or use a separate machine.

> 

>> On Oct 25, 2021, at 00:27, Rebecca Skipper > <mailto:skipper8...@gmail.com> > wrote:

>> 

>> Well,

>> I was intrigued by the idea of running windows on a Mac, but I am starting 
>&g

Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

['Jason White' via MacVisionaries]

Parallels has had a reputation for not being accessible with VoiceOver. However, I don’t have it installed, so I can’t comment on the latest version. Note that unless Microsoft decides to license Windows for ARM processors for Apple devices, it won’t be legal (even if technically possible) to run Windows 11 under Parallels, VMWare, or other virtualization solutions in Mac OS. Linux, by contrast, doesn’t have this problem: you can run as many Linux virtual machines as you wish. From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  on behalf of Rebecca Skipper Date: Monday, October 25, 2021 at 15:35To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on MacIs parallels on M1 accessible with voiceover?I prefer the Mac’s menu driven system and its mail app. From: 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries  Sent: Monday, October 25, 2021 12:28 PMTo: macvisionaries@googlegroups.comSubject: Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac I don’t use any Windows applications for which there isn’t a Mac OS equivalent. I have them installed in parallel, on separate machines, and I can use either. As to which it best, it depends on the application. For example, Microsoft Outlook for Mac is better than the Windows version in ways that matter to me – including the fact that the Mac version doesn’t crash very often, whereas the Windows version does. On the other hand, Microsoft Word is more accessible under Windows, but I’m a very occasional Microsoft Word user, and could probably substitute Pages easily for those few situations. I read an article a while ago which claimed that most Mac users these days don’t need Windows for anything whatsoever. Apparently, survey results show overwhelmingly that most Mac users don’t install Windows. So it may be that the number of users who want to do this isn’t large enough for Apple or Microsoft to care about anymore. The signals from Microsoft indicate that they have no plan to license Windows 11 for ARM to run on Mac M1 hardware or its successors – they’ve officially described this as an “unsupported scenario”. The virtualization vendors may well find that there’s no Windows for ARM licensing option available for their customers on Mac. On 10/25/21, 10:43, "macvisionaries@googlegroups.com" <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:When I purchased my M1 machine in June, I was informed that Boot Camp no longer existed and that was machines If it had, I probably would’ve installed windows on the same machine. Personally, at this point, I am OK with running a separate machine although I will say that I’m spending almost all of my time on the Mac side. If I had installed windows, I don’t think that would’ve been the case. So maybe it’s for the best. I think Apple would think so. Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 25, 2021, at 9:52 AM, Rebecca Skipper <skipper8...@gmail.com> wrote:> > I have an M1 Mac not an Intel Mac.> I haven't heard anything about Bootcamp working on the M1, and why mess up a good machine since I already have a windows computer.> If someone needed windows and still wanted a mac why not just buy a Mac Mini and a Windows Tablet.> > > -Original Message-> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Herbie Allen> Sent: Monday, October 25, 2021 9:29 AM> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac> > I don’t think it’s possible to run Mac on Windows. . What is making you change your mind about running Window’s on Bootcamp? I like the fact that I get a clean install and a machin that has much better hardware. My only limitation is that if I ever get a newer Mac, I will either have to switch to the  365 or use a separate machine.> >> On Oct 25, 2021, at 00:27, Rebecca Skipper <skipper8...@gmail.com> wrote:>> >> Well,>> I was intrigued by the idea of running windows on a Mac, but I am starting to agree with others who say that if you want Windows get a Windows machine.>> I haven't heard of anyone running Mac on Windows using a screen reader, and I do not take this feature for granted.>> If you really want to run windows on a Mac look into Windows 365.>> It is currently available only for business users.>> >> >> -Original Message->> From: 'Sabahattin Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> >> Sent: Monday, October 25, 2021 1:19 AM>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> Subject: Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac>> >> It’s absolutely right that Apple Silicon is the future and if you’re buying now, and want to have maximum future and feature support, that’s the way to go. I would not dismiss Intel Macs out of hand—they can do one thing Apple Silicon can’t, namely, run Microsoft Windows. They are available now and will

RE: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

[Rebecca Skipper]

Is parallels on M1 accessible with voiceover?

I prefer the Mac’s menu driven system and its mail app.

 

From: 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries  
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2021 12:28 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

 

I don’t use any Windows applications for which there isn’t a Mac OS equivalent. 
I have them installed in parallel, on separate machines, and I can use either. 
As to which it best, it depends on the application. For example, Microsoft 
Outlook for Mac is better than the Windows version in ways that matter to me – 
including the fact that the Mac version doesn’t crash very often, whereas the 
Windows version does. On the other hand, Microsoft Word is more accessible 
under Windows, but I’m a very occasional Microsoft Word user, and could 
probably substitute Pages easily for those few situations.

 

I read an article a while ago which claimed that most Mac users these days 
don’t need Windows for anything whatsoever. Apparently, survey results show 
overwhelmingly that most Mac users don’t install Windows. So it may be that the 
number of users who want to do this isn’t large enough for Apple or Microsoft 
to care about anymore. The signals from Microsoft indicate that they have no 
plan to license Windows 11 for ARM to run on Mac M1 hardware or its successors 
– they’ve officially described this as an “unsupported scenario”. The 
virtualization vendors may well find that there’s no Windows for ARM licensing 
option available for their customers on Mac.

 

On 10/25/21, 10:43, "macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> " mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> > wrote:

When I purchased my M1 machine in June, I was informed that Boot Camp no longer 
existed and that was machines If it had, I probably would’ve installed windows 
on the same machine. Personally, at this point, I am OK with running a separate 
machine although I will say that I’m spending almost all of my time on the Mac 
side. If I had installed windows, I don’t think that would’ve been the case. So 
maybe it’s for the best. I think Apple would think so.

 

Sent from my iPhone

 

> On Oct 25, 2021, at 9:52 AM, Rebecca Skipper  <mailto:skipper8...@gmail.com> > wrote:

> 

> I have an M1 Mac not an Intel Mac.

> I haven't heard anything about Bootcamp working on the M1, and why mess up a 
> good machine since I already have a windows computer.

> If someone needed windows and still wanted a mac why not just buy a Mac Mini 
> and a Windows Tablet.

> 

> 

> -Original Message-

> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroupscom> 
>  mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> > 
> On Behalf Of Herbie Allen

> Sent: Monday, October 25, 2021 9:29 AM

> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> 

> Subject: Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

> 

> I don’t think it’s possible to run Mac on Windows. . What is making you 
> change your mind about running Window’s on Bootcamp? I like the fact that I 
> get a clean install and a machin that has much better hardware. My only 
> limitation is that if I ever get a newer Mac, I will either have to switch to 
> the  365 or use a separate machine.

> 

>> On Oct 25, 2021, at 00:27, Rebecca Skipper > <mailto:skipper8...@gmail.com> > wrote:

>> 

>> Well,

>> I was intrigued by the idea of running windows on a Mac, but I am starting 
>> to agree with others who say that if you want Windows get a Windows machine.

>> I haven't heard of anyone running Mac on Windows using a screen reader, and 
>> I do not take this feature for granted.

>> If you really want to run windows on a Mac look into Windows 365.

>> It is currently available only for business users.

>> 

>> 

>> -Original Message-

>> From: 'Sabahattin Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries 
>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> > 

>> Sent: Monday, October 25, 2021 1:19 AM

>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> 

>> Subject: Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

>> 

>> It’s absolutely right that Apple Silicon is the future and if you’re buying 
>> now, and want to have maximum future and feature support, that’s the way to 
>> go. I would not dismiss Intel Macs out of hand—they can do one thing Apple 
>> Silicon can’t, namely, run Microsoft Windows. They are available now and 
>> will be supported, and if you don’t plan for the future, they’re still a 
>> viable choice. FWIW, the only features I could use, but do without, and that 
>> are only available on Apple Silicon, are Touch ID 

Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

['Sabahattin Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries]

Sorry, I don’t know what you mean by “running Mac on Windows”.

You can already virtualise (that is, create a virtual environment for) and 
dual-boot (that is, reboot and then start as though on a PC) Windows. Macs make 
very fine Windows machines either way, providing you understand the limitations 
of the hardware and driver support. Modern Windows is very power-efficient and 
if you configure it correctly it can run every bit as nicely as macOS, although 
on notebooks with discrete GPUs Apple has always prejudiced the integrated GPU 
(there are workarounds, if you know where to look).

I mostly run Apple stock apps on my Macs, but the bulk of it is in Linux VMs or 
Terminal. Any consideration to move exclusively to Apple Silicon would mean, 
for me, deciding which platform was the lesser evil for essentially day-to-day 
apps; I would simply have to have (and carry about) multiple machines, 
otherwise. Right now my iMac does the work, and runs both platforms well, but I 
don’t boot Windows very often at all and it might simply be time to leave 
Windows behind altogether when travelling. Alternatively, of course, I purchase 
a cheap Apple Silicon notebook for the few (and, I’ll be honest, generally less 
important) things macOS does well, and begin the painful transition back to 
Windows full-time. I’m not sure which, yet. Given that my VMs are Linux, and 
Windows now has WSL for Linux command-line software, it’s actually not an easy 
call to make any more—I think the reason I’m stuck to macOS is mostly 
familiarity and the overall experience, but it clearly also has limitations 
that would be amplified by Apple Silicon and not having Windows around as 
rescue, however infrequently that actually happens.

I don’t know the accessibility status of Windows 365, but I don’t really fancy 
renting my computer in the cloud. My beef with Windows as a platform isn’t such 
that I’d avoid it at all costs, but realistically I’d have to use it on a day 
to day basis and the cloud isn’t good value for that.

Cheers,
Sabahattin

-- 
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Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

['Jason White' via MacVisionaries]

I don’t use any Windows applications for which there isn’t a Mac OS equivalent. I have them installed in parallel, on separate machines, and I can use either. As to which it best, it depends on the application. For example, Microsoft Outlook for Mac is better than the Windows version in ways that matter to me – including the fact that the Mac version doesn’t crash very often, whereas the Windows version does. On the other hand, Microsoft Word is more accessible under Windows, but I’m a very occasional Microsoft Word user, and could probably substitute Pages easily for those few situations. I read an article a while ago which claimed that most Mac users these days don’t need Windows for anything whatsoever. Apparently, survey results show overwhelmingly that most Mac users don’t install Windows. So it may be that the number of users who want to do this isn’t large enough for Apple or Microsoft to care about anymore. The signals from Microsoft indicate that they have no plan to license Windows 11 for ARM to run on Mac M1 hardware or its successors – they’ve officially described this as an “unsupported scenario”. The virtualization vendors may well find that there’s no Windows for ARM licensing option available for their customers on Mac. On 10/25/21, 10:43, "macvisionaries@googlegroups.com"  wrote:When I purchased my M1 machine in June, I was informed that Boot Camp no longer existed and that was machines If it had, I probably would’ve installed windows on the same machine. Personally, at this point, I am OK with running a separate machine although I will say that I’m spending almost all of my time on the Mac side. If I had installed windows, I don’t think that would’ve been the case. So maybe it’s for the best. I think Apple would think so. Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 25, 2021, at 9:52 AM, Rebecca Skipper <skipper8...@gmail.com> wrote:> > I have an M1 Mac not an Intel Mac.> I haven't heard anything about Bootcamp working on the M1, and why mess up a good machine since I already have a windows computer.> If someone needed windows and still wanted a mac why not just buy a Mac Mini and a Windows Tablet.> > > -Original Message-> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Herbie Allen> Sent: Monday, October 25, 2021 9:29 AM> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac> > I don’t think it’s possible to run Mac on Windows. . What is making you change your mind about running Window’s on Bootcamp? I like the fact that I get a clean install and a machin that has much better hardware. My only limitation is that if I ever get a newer Mac, I will either have to switch to the  365 or use a separate machine.> >> On Oct 25, 2021, at 00:27, Rebecca Skipper <skipper8...@gmail.com> wrote:>> >> Well,>> I was intrigued by the idea of running windows on a Mac, but I am starting to agree with others who say that if you want Windows get a Windows machine.>> I haven't heard of anyone running Mac on Windows using a screen reader, and I do not take this feature for granted.>> If you really want to run windows on a Mac look into Windows 365.>> It is currently available only for business users.>> >> >> -Original Message->> From: 'Sabahattin Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> >> Sent: Monday, October 25, 2021 1:19 AM>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> Subject: Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac>> >> It’s absolutely right that Apple Silicon is the future and if you’re buying now, and want to have maximum future and feature support, that’s the way to go. I would not dismiss Intel Macs out of hand—they can do one thing Apple Silicon can’t, namely, run Microsoft Windows. They are available now and will be supported, and if you don’t plan for the future, they’re still a viable choice. FWIW, the only features I could use, but do without, and that are only available on Apple Silicon, are Touch ID unlock via a remote keyboard and the Siri voices with intelligence-enhanced emphasis However, that is today’s macOS; assuming I am not tempted to simply switch platform to continue using my Intel Mac, it might be a dead end for future features I desire later in upcoming macOS versions.>> >> Cheers,>> Sabahattin>> >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries list.>> >> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.>> >> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - y

Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

[Herbie Allen]

Has anyone ran a program like Station Playlist or another similarly resource 
intensive program on a Windows tablet? If so, what was your experience?

Herbie

> On Oct 25, 2021, at 08:52, Rebecca Skipper  wrote:
> 
> I have an M1 Mac not an Intel Mac.
> I haven't heard anything about Bootcamp working on the M1, and why mess up a 
> good machine since I already have a windows computer.
> If someone needed windows and still wanted a mac why not just buy a Mac Mini 
> and a Windows Tablet.
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
> Behalf Of Herbie Allen
> Sent: Monday, October 25, 2021 9:29 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac
> 
> I don’t think it’s possible to run Mac on Windows. . What is making you 
> change your mind about running Window’s on Bootcamp? I like the fact that I 
> get a clean install and a machin that has much better hardware. My only 
> limitation is that if I ever get a newer Mac, I will either have to switch to 
> the  365 or use a separate machine.
> 
>> On Oct 25, 2021, at 00:27, Rebecca Skipper  wrote:
>> 
>> Well,
>> I was intrigued by the idea of running windows on a Mac, but I am starting 
>> to agree with others who say that if you want Windows get a Windows machine.
>> I haven't heard of anyone running Mac on Windows using a screen reader, and 
>> I do not take this feature for granted.
>> If you really want to run windows on a Mac look into Windows 365.
>> It is currently available only for business users.
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: 'Sabahattin Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries 
>>  
>> Sent: Monday, October 25, 2021 1:19 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac
>> 
>> It’s absolutely right that Apple Silicon is the future and if you’re buying 
>> now, and want to have maximum future and feature support, that’s the way to 
>> go. I would not dismiss Intel Macs out of hand—they can do one thing Apple 
>> Silicon can’t, namely, run Microsoft Windows. They are available now and 
>> will be supported, and if you don’t plan for the future, they’re still a 
>> viable choice. FWIW, the only features I could use, but do without, and that 
>> are only available on Apple Silicon, are Touch ID unlock via a remote 
>> keyboard and the Siri voices with intelligence-enhanced emphasis. However, 
>> that is today’s macOS; assuming I am not tempted to simply switch platform 
>> to continue using my Intel Mac, it might be a dead end for future features I 
>> desire later in upcoming macOS versions.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Sabahattin
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
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>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
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>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
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>> 
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Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

[Les Kriegler]

When I purchased my M1 machine in June, I was informed that Boot Camp no longer 
existed and that was machines. If it had, I probably would’ve installed windows 
on the same machine. Personally, at this point, I am OK with running a separate 
machine although I will say that I’m spending almost all of my time on the Mac 
side. If I had installed windows, I don’t think that would’ve been the case. So 
maybe it’s for the best. I think Apple would think so.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 25, 2021, at 9:52 AM, Rebecca Skipper  wrote:
> 
> I have an M1 Mac not an Intel Mac.
> I haven't heard anything about Bootcamp working on the M1, and why mess up a 
> good machine since I already have a windows computer.
> If someone needed windows and still wanted a mac why not just buy a Mac Mini 
> and a Windows Tablet.
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
> Behalf Of Herbie Allen
> Sent: Monday, October 25, 2021 9:29 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac
> 
> I don’t think it’s possible to run Mac on Windows. . What is making you 
> change your mind about running Window’s on Bootcamp? I like the fact that I 
> get a clean install and a machin that has much better hardware. My only 
> limitation is that if I ever get a newer Mac, I will either have to switch to 
> the  365 or use a separate machine.
> 
>> On Oct 25, 2021, at 00:27, Rebecca Skipper  wrote:
>> 
>> Well,
>> I was intrigued by the idea of running windows on a Mac, but I am starting 
>> to agree with others who say that if you want Windows get a Windows machine.
>> I haven't heard of anyone running Mac on Windows using a screen reader, and 
>> I do not take this feature for granted.
>> If you really want to run windows on a Mac look into Windows 365.
>> It is currently available only for business users.
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: 'Sabahattin Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries 
>>  
>> Sent: Monday, October 25, 2021 1:19 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac
>> 
>> It’s absolutely right that Apple Silicon is the future and if you’re buying 
>> now, and want to have maximum future and feature support, that’s the way to 
>> go. I would not dismiss Intel Macs out of hand—they can do one thing Apple 
>> Silicon can’t, namely, run Microsoft Windows. They are available now and 
>> will be supported, and if you don’t plan for the future, they’re still a 
>> viable choice. FWIW, the only features I could use, but do without, and that 
>> are only available on Apple Silicon, are Touch ID unlock via a remote 
>> keyboard and the Siri voices with intelligence-enhanced emphasis. However, 
>> that is today’s macOS; assuming I am not tempted to simply switch platform 
>> to continue using my Intel Mac, it might be a dead end for future features I 
>> desire later in upcoming macOS versions.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Sabahattin
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/A40B9AD4-8E39-4536-B57D-30848F1861B6%40me.com.
>> 
>> -- 
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>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
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>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>

RE: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

[Rebecca Skipper]

I have an M1 Mac not an Intel Mac.
I haven't heard anything about Bootcamp working on the M1, and why mess up a 
good machine since I already have a windows computer.
If someone needed windows and still wanted a mac why not just buy a Mac Mini 
and a Windows Tablet.


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Herbie Allen
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2021 9:29 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

I don’t think it’s possible to run Mac on Windows. . What is making you change 
your mind about running Window’s on Bootcamp? I like the fact that I get a 
clean install and a machin that has much better hardware. My only limitation is 
that if I ever get a newer Mac, I will either have to switch to the  365 or use 
a separate machine.

> On Oct 25, 2021, at 00:27, Rebecca Skipper  wrote:
> 
> Well,
> I was intrigued by the idea of running windows on a Mac, but I am starting to 
> agree with others who say that if you want Windows get a Windows machine.
> I haven't heard of anyone running Mac on Windows using a screen reader, and I 
> do not take this feature for granted.
> If you really want to run windows on a Mac look into Windows 365.
> It is currently available only for business users.
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: 'Sabahattin Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries 
>  
> Sent: Monday, October 25, 2021 1:19 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac
> 
> It’s absolutely right that Apple Silicon is the future and if you’re buying 
> now, and want to have maximum future and feature support, that’s the way to 
> go. I would not dismiss Intel Macs out of hand—they can do one thing Apple 
> Silicon can’t, namely, run Microsoft Windows. They are available now and will 
> be supported, and if you don’t plan for the future, they’re still a viable 
> choice. FWIW, the only features I could use, but do without, and that are 
> only available on Apple Silicon, are Touch ID unlock via a remote keyboard 
> and the Siri voices with intelligence-enhanced emphasis. However, that is 
> today’s macOS; assuming I am not tempted to simply switch platform to 
> continue using my Intel Mac, it might be a dead end for future features I 
> desire later in upcoming macOS versions.
> 
> Cheers,
> Sabahattin
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/A40B9AD4-8E39-4536-B57D-30848F1861B6%40me.com.
> 
> -- 
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> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

[Herbie Allen]

I don’t think it’s possible to run Mac on Windows. . What is making you change 
your mind about running Window’s on Bootcamp? I like the fact that I get a 
clean install and a machin that has much better hardware. My only limitation is 
that if I ever get a newer Mac, I will either have to switch to the  365 or use 
a separate machine.

> On Oct 25, 2021, at 00:27, Rebecca Skipper  wrote:
> 
> Well,
> I was intrigued by the idea of running windows on a Mac, but I am starting to 
> agree with others who say that if you want Windows get a Windows machine.
> I haven't heard of anyone running Mac on Windows using a screen reader, and I 
> do not take this feature for granted.
> If you really want to run windows on a Mac look into Windows 365.
> It is currently available only for business users.
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: 'Sabahattin Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries 
>  
> Sent: Monday, October 25, 2021 1:19 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac
> 
> It’s absolutely right that Apple Silicon is the future and if you’re buying 
> now, and want to have maximum future and feature support, that’s the way to 
> go. I would not dismiss Intel Macs out of hand—they can do one thing Apple 
> Silicon can’t, namely, run Microsoft Windows. They are available now and will 
> be supported, and if you don’t plan for the future, they’re still a viable 
> choice. FWIW, the only features I could use, but do without, and that are 
> only available on Apple Silicon, are Touch ID unlock via a remote keyboard 
> and the Siri voices with intelligence-enhanced emphasis. However, that is 
> today’s macOS; assuming I am not tempted to simply switch platform to 
> continue using my Intel Mac, it might be a dead end for future features I 
> desire later in upcoming macOS versions.
> 
> Cheers,
> Sabahattin
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
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> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

[Yuma Decaux]

The reason why I made the move to the new m-1 max chip with 64 gb of Ram is for 
my machine learning projects. Until now I had to rely heavily on my uni's 
supercomputer distributed spaces, which by themselves don't have much ram to 
provide, which limits the capacity of my model training. To look at it with an 
ML perspective, some of the highest end NVIDIA graphics cards such as the gtx 
3090 have 40 GB of RAM. this is, on top, with a bus separating both CPU and 
GPU. On the other hand, the M1-max is unified RAM, and considering a CPU that 
may require 16 GB, I still have 48 GB theoretical available for my model 
training, which is literally a dream come true, as I can prototype my AI stuff 
much faster with higher resolution, and don't have to rely on an external GPU 
box that guzzles more energy than a washing machine, and is not unified with 
the CPU.

For this alone, the upgrade is worth it, but the second major reason for my 
switch is the return to the mechanical function keys. With the touch bar, 
everything was slowed considerably. All of my function key mappings to useful 
and performance enhancing shortcuts were limited by the weird touch tapping 
methods on the touch bar, and the sheer idiotic latency experienced when trying 
to wake the damn thing up while I' in the thick of coding or something 
similarly focus driven.


My two cents 

Yuma 



> On 25 Oct 2021, at 1:41 pm, Muhammad Fayed  wrote:
> 
> A direct thing that you can notice the speed of performing image recognition 
> using VO+shift+l since it is an ML feature. That should be significantly 
> faster on M1 according to my experience with the same feature on iPhone 10s 
> compared to 2016 MBP. It is much faster on iPhone.
> 
> As Rebecca and Brad mentioned, the other key difference in purchasing 
> decision is how many years of software updates to get. If Apple decided to 
> cut it earlier than the number of years Brad mentioned because of the small 
> number of Intel Mac users, Intel Mac users will be annoyed by that decision.
> 
> Some of the other new features are specific to Apple silicon Mac like life 
> text, as I remember in Mac OS 12. If it exists in both platform, it should be 
> significantly faster on Apple silicon devices compared to Intel ones.
> 
> HTH,
> 
> Mohamed E. Fayed 
> 
> 
>> On 25 Oct 2021, at 12:27 AM, 'Sabahattin Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I don’t think there’s any meaningful difference, personally, certainly no 
>> more than would normally be expected for machines of similar benchmarks on 
>> either platform. So, for instance, my 2019 iMac is more powerful than my 
>> 2020 M1 Mac Mini, and it feels just the same. JMO.
>> 
>> I can’t wait to see Linux running on the M1 Mini. At last, a super-powered 
>> small-form-factor Linux server!
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Sabahattin
>> 
>> -- 
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>> Visionaries list.
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RE: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

[Rebecca Skipper]

Well,
Please remember that iPads could be an option, and don't forget about the more 
affordable Mac Mini.
I am using windows to type this message, and I do not see myself using a Mac 
for all my computing needs for a while because there are apps that do not work 
on the Mac.
However, if Windows was gone tomorrow I could accomplish all my tasks using a 
combination of mac and IOS or IPad OS once I learned the differences.


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of maurice mines
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2021 12:44 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com; Muhammad Fayed 
Subject: Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

Hi, unfortunately here are my concerns about this entire Apple silicon versus 
the Intel mock debate, and my concerns about it when it is in respect to this 
issue.

The issue that I see is simply this. If you have to the way Apple sees it 
financially is trade-in your Intel Mac spend $600 which I think is abruptly the 
price difference between the two machines then spend another $300 on Apple care 
protection. That if you live in a state or a region that has a sales tax based 
on the total price of the item this could get to be very expensive. In fact for 
many of us were blind at least in the United States it is prohibitively 
expensive. In other words I think for now they must support both the Intel and 
the silicon in 2023 I think that would be a different story but right now in 
late 2021 they have to support both otherwise some people may just say Dell's 
elegant switch to Windows in fact that's what I'm using to dictate this message 
to simply because there is nothing comparable in terms of dictation on the 
Apple side. In fact people hate me because I can't spell because I have a 
written expression disorder so I have to use Dragon in Windows to at least have 
a shot of being understood. I hope this helps, and is not to unduly long.

On 10/24/2021 9:04 PM, Muhammad Fayed wrote:
> BY THE WAY, how do you use your Macs? I think the performance difference for 
> you is not much because it is not a high workload that shows the difference.
>
> One of the things I noticed between two Macs one of 2016 and another from 
> 2020 is in dealing with larger numbers sheets. I find it more responsive and 
> VoiceOver stays busy for shorter periods of time.
>
> A thing I remembered and think it is useful to keep in  mind.
>
> Regards,
>
> Mohamed E. Fayed
>
>> On 25 Oct 2021, at 12:27 AM, 'Sabahattin Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries 
>>  wrote:
>>
>> I don’t think there’s any meaningful difference, personally, certainly no 
>> more than would normally be expected for machines of similar benchmarks on 
>> either platform. So, for instance, my 2019 iMac is more powerful than my 
>> 2020 M1 Mac Mini, and it feels just the same. JMO.
>>
>> I can’t wait to see Linux running on the M1 Mini. At last, a super-powered 
>> small-form-factor Linux server!
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Sabahattin
>>
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>>
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach 
>> mark at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach 
>> Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> ---
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>> "MacVisionaries" group.
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>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/2532CB84-4F48-4337-A3DE-16C8F250A20B%40me.com.

--
maurice Mines
Maurice mines.
Board member, National Federation of the blind deaf blind division.
Vice president National Federation a of the blind of California Bakersfield 
chapter.
Amateur radio call sign kd0iko.
Direct phone number,  661-241-3788



maurice Mines
Maurice mines.
Board member, National Federation of the blind deaf blind division.
Vice president National Federation a of the blind of California Bakersfield 
chapter.
Amateur radio call sign kd0iko.
Direct phone number,  661-241-3788

maurice Mines
Maurice mines.
Board member, National Federation of the blind deaf blind division.
Vice president National Federation a of the blind of California Bakersfield 
chapter.
Amateur radio call sign kd0iko.
Direct

RE: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

[Rebecca Skipper]

Well,
I was intrigued by the idea of running windows on a Mac, but I am starting to 
agree with others who say that if you want Windows get a Windows machine.
I haven't heard of anyone running Mac on Windows using a screen reader, and I 
do not take this feature for granted.
If you really want to run windows on a Mac look into Windows 365.
It is currently available only for business users.


-Original Message-
From: 'Sabahattin Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries 
 
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2021 1:19 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

It’s absolutely right that Apple Silicon is the future and if you’re buying 
now, and want to have maximum future and feature support, that’s the way to go. 
I would not dismiss Intel Macs out of hand—they can do one thing Apple Silicon 
can’t, namely, run Microsoft Windows. They are available now and will be 
supported, and if you don’t plan for the future, they’re still a viable choice. 
FWIW, the only features I could use, but do without, and that are only 
available on Apple Silicon, are Touch ID unlock via a remote keyboard and the 
Siri voices with intelligence-enhanced emphasis. However, that is today’s 
macOS; assuming I am not tempted to simply switch platform to continue using my 
Intel Mac, it might be a dead end for future features I desire later in 
upcoming macOS versions.

Cheers,
Sabahattin

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Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

['Sabahattin Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries]

It’s absolutely right that Apple Silicon is the future and if you’re buying 
now, and want to have maximum future and feature support, that’s the way to go. 
I would not dismiss Intel Macs out of hand—they can do one thing Apple Silicon 
can’t, namely, run Microsoft Windows. They are available now and will be 
supported, and if you don’t plan for the future, they’re still a viable choice. 
FWIW, the only features I could use, but do without, and that are only 
available on Apple Silicon, are Touch ID unlock via a remote keyboard and the 
Siri voices with intelligence-enhanced emphasis. However, that is today’s 
macOS; assuming I am not tempted to simply switch platform to continue using my 
Intel Mac, it might be a dead end for future features I desire later in 
upcoming macOS versions.

Cheers,
Sabahattin

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Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

[maurice mines]

Hi, unfortunately here are my concerns about this entire Apple silicon 
versus the Intel mock debate, and my concerns about it when it is in 
respect to this issue.


The issue that I see is simply this. If you have to the way Apple sees 
it financially is trade-in your Intel Mac spend $600 which I think is 
abruptly the price difference between the two machines then spend 
another $300 on Apple care protection. That if you live in a state or a 
region that has a sales tax based on the total price of the item this 
could get to be very expensive. In fact for many of us were blind at 
least in the United States it is prohibitively expensive. In other words 
I think for now they must support both the Intel and the silicon in 2023 
I think that would be a different story but right now in late 2021 they 
have to support both otherwise some people may just say Dell's elegant 
switch to Windows in fact that's what I'm using to dictate this message 
to simply because there is nothing comparable in terms of dictation on 
the Apple side. In fact people hate me because I can't spell because I 
have a written expression disorder so I have to use Dragon in Windows to 
at least have a shot of being understood. I hope this helps, and is not 
to unduly long.


On 10/24/2021 9:04 PM, Muhammad Fayed wrote:

BY THE WAY, how do you use your Macs? I think the performance difference for 
you is not much because it is not a high workload that shows the difference.

One of the things I noticed between two Macs one of 2016 and another from 2020 
is in dealing with larger numbers sheets. I find it more responsive and 
VoiceOver stays busy for shorter periods of time.

A thing I remembered and think it is useful to keep in  mind.

Regards,

Mohamed E. Fayed


On 25 Oct 2021, at 12:27 AM, 'Sabahattin Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

I don’t think there’s any meaningful difference, personally, certainly no more 
than would normally be expected for machines of similar benchmarks on either 
platform. So, for instance, my 2019 iMac is more powerful than my 2020 M1 Mac 
Mini, and it feels just the same. JMO.

I can’t wait to see Linux running on the M1 Mini. At last, a super-powered 
small-form-factor Linux server!

Cheers,
Sabahattin

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--
maurice Mines
Maurice mines.
Board member, National Federation of the blind deaf blind division.
Vice president National Federation a of the blind of California Bakersfield 
chapter.
Amateur radio call sign kd0iko.
Direct phone number,  661-241-3788



maurice Mines
Maurice mines.
Board member, National Federation of the blind deaf blind division.
Vice president National Federation a of the blind of California Bakersfield 
chapter.
Amateur radio call sign kd0iko.
Direct phone number,  661-241-3788

maurice Mines
Maurice mines.
Board member, National Federation of the blind deaf blind division.
Vice president National Federation a of the blind of California Bakersfield 
chapter.
Amateur radio call sign kd0iko.
Direct phone number,  661-241-3788

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Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

[Muhammad Fayed]

BY THE WAY, how do you use your Macs? I think the performance difference for 
you is not much because it is not a high workload that shows the difference. 

One of the things I noticed between two Macs one of 2016 and another from 2020 
is in dealing with larger numbers sheets. I find it more responsive and 
VoiceOver stays busy for shorter periods of time.

A thing I remembered and think it is useful to keep in  mind.

Regards,

Mohamed E. Fayed 

> On 25 Oct 2021, at 12:27 AM, 'Sabahattin Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> I don’t think there’s any meaningful difference, personally, certainly no 
> more than would normally be expected for machines of similar benchmarks on 
> either platform. So, for instance, my 2019 iMac is more powerful than my 2020 
> M1 Mac Mini, and it feels just the same. JMO.
> 
> I can’t wait to see Linux running on the M1 Mini. At last, a super-powered 
> small-form-factor Linux server!
> 
> Cheers,
> Sabahattin
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
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> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
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> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
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Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

[Muhammad Fayed]

A direct thing that you can notice the speed of performing image recognition 
using VO+shift+l since it is an ML feature. That should be significantly faster 
on M1 according to my experience with the same feature on iPhone 10s compared 
to 2016 MBP. It is much faster on iPhone.

As Rebecca and Brad mentioned, the other key difference in purchasing decision 
is how many years of software updates to get. If Apple decided to cut it 
earlier than the number of years Brad mentioned because of the small number of 
Intel Mac users, Intel Mac users will be annoyed by that decision.

Some of the other new features are specific to Apple silicon Mac like life 
text, as I remember in Mac OS 12. If it exists in both platform, it should be 
significantly faster on Apple silicon devices compared to Intel ones.

HTH,

Mohamed E. Fayed 


> On 25 Oct 2021, at 12:27 AM, 'Sabahattin Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> I don’t think there’s any meaningful difference, personally, certainly no 
> more than would normally be expected for machines of similar benchmarks on 
> either platform. So, for instance, my 2019 iMac is more powerful than my 2020 
> M1 Mac Mini, and it feels just the same. JMO.
> 
> I can’t wait to see Linux running on the M1 Mini. At last, a super-powered 
> small-form-factor Linux server!
> 
> Cheers,
> Sabahattin
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
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> 
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> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

[Brad Snyder]

Apple generally supports a product for about 5 - 7 years after it has been 
discontinued and is no longer sold by Apple. At that point, it is termed a 
vintage product.
A product that has been discontinued and has not been sold by Apple for more 
than seven years is termed an obsolete product, and Apple will not service or 
support these products.
See the link below for more information.
https://www.idropnews.com/news/heres-what-apple-actually-means-by-vintage-and-obsolete-products/137865/amp/
 selected 

- Brad -

On Oct 24, 2021, at 17:47, Rebecca Skipper  wrote:


I think Intel Macs will not be supported at some point, but the question 
remains how long Apple will continue supporting Intel based Macs once they 
finish their transition to the M1 chips.
 
From: 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries  
Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2021 6:44 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac
 
For anyone who is planning a purchasing decision, it’s worth noting that there 
are software features that won’t be available on Intel-based Mac systems, such 
as new text to speech support for certain languages, and on-device speech 
recognition for dictation. I would expect this list of features exclusive to 
the M1 and its successors to grow in subsequent operating system releases.
 
None of these features is specific to VoiceOver yet, but this may change over 
time. I know the question was about performance, but anyone who is seriously 
deciding what hardware to buy should consider features as well, including the 
likelihood that software development will shift increasingly toward Apple’s new 
hardware architecture.
 
On 10/24/21, 18:28, "'Sabahattin Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries" 
 wrote:

I don’t think there’s any meaningful difference, personally, certainly no more 
than would normally be expected for machines of similar benchmarks on either 
platform. So, for instance, my 2019 iMac is more powerful than my 2020 M1 Mac 
Mini, and it feels just the same. JMO.
 
I can’t wait to see Linux running on the M1 Mini. At last, a super-powered 
small-form-factor Linux server!
 
Cheers,
Sabahattin
 
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RE: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

[Rebecca Skipper]

I think Intel Macs will not be supported at some point, but the question 
remains how long Apple will continue supporting Intel based Macs once they 
finish their transition to the M1 chips.

 

From: 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries  
Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2021 6:44 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

 

For anyone who is planning a purchasing decision, it’s worth noting that there 
are software features that won’t be available on Intel-based Mac systems, such 
as new text to speech support for certain languages, and on-device speech 
recognition for dictation. I would expect this list of features exclusive to 
the M1 and its successors to grow in subsequent operating system releases.

 

None of these features is specific to VoiceOver yet, but this may change over 
time. I know the question was about performance, but anyone who is seriously 
deciding what hardware to buy should consider features as well, including the 
likelihood that software development will shift increasingly toward Apple’s new 
hardware architecture.

 

On 10/24/21, 18:28, "'Sabahattin Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries" 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> > 
wrote:

I don’t think there’s any meaningful difference, personally, certainly no more 
than would normally be expected for machines of similar benchmarks on either 
platform. So, for instance, my 2019 iMac is more powerful than my 2020 M1 Mac 
Mini, and it feels just the same. JMO.

 

I can’t wait to see Linux running on the M1 Mini. At last, a super-powered 
small-form-factor Linux server!

 

Cheers,

Sabahattin

 

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Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

['Jason White' via MacVisionaries]

For anyone who is planning a purchasing decision, it’s worth noting that there are software features that won’t be available on Intel-based Mac systems, such as new text to speech support for certain languages, and on-device speech recognition for dictation. I would expect this list of features exclusive to the M1 and its successors to grow in subsequent operating system releases. None of these features is specific to VoiceOver yet, but this may change over time. I know the question was about performance, but anyone who is seriously deciding what hardware to buy should consider features as well, including the likelihood that software development will shift increasingly toward Apple’s new hardware architecture. On 10/24/21, 18:28, "'Sabahattin Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries"  wrote:I don’t think there’s any meaningful difference, personally, certainly no more than would normally be expected for machines of similar benchmarks on either platform. So, for instance, my 2019 iMac is more powerful than my 2020 M1 Mac Mini, and it feels just the same. JMO. I can’t wait to see Linux running on the M1 Mini. At last, a super-powered small-form-factor Linux server! Cheers,Sabahattin -- The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com The archives for this list can be searched at:http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/--- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/2532CB84-4F48-4337-A3DE-16C8F250A20B%40me.com. 



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Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

['Sabahattin Gucukoglu' via MacVisionaries]

I don’t think there’s any meaningful difference, personally, certainly no more 
than would normally be expected for machines of similar benchmarks on either 
platform. So, for instance, my 2019 iMac is more powerful than my 2020 M1 Mac 
Mini, and it feels just the same. JMO.

I can’t wait to see Linux running on the M1 Mini. At last, a super-powered 
small-form-factor Linux server!

Cheers,
Sabahattin

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caraqu...@caraquinn.com

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Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

['Jason White' via MacVisionaries]

Yes, it does entail that you should at some point be able to install and run Linux on M1 hardware without virtualization.https://asahilinux.org/about/ From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  on behalf of Muhammad Fayed Date: Saturday, October 23, 2021 at 10:12To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on MacThis single message includes a reply for each of you:Tim, and Andrew, that sounds good. Rebecca, for windows, the issue mainly in ARM. Windows is optimized for X86. Otherwise, if we compare windows on MBP vs windows on other device like Dell XPS for example, the difference is due to other factors than the OS itself. Windows is designed to work on a large set of devices, so it won’t be optimized for specific device on specific workload. But the Mac is optimized for specific hardware. That makes Mac faster on its hardware compared to windows assuming that heat is not an issue. That’s from a software engineering point of view.What makes Mac devices sucks, or so said, with Windows is that Apple prefer making smaller and cooler and more compact case for their devices. Windows on the other hand consumes more energy thus generate more heat in small case resulting in throttling issues. Personally, I prefer not to use Windows on Apple Macbook series because of overheated keyboard. I don’t know about the user experience of windows compared to Mac according to fluidity when we have the exact specifications, but with case designed for wincows and Mac respectively. Jason and Yuma, Good luck with your new devices. I wish you great experience with them.  I’ll wait for your reviews when you have them.  Jason, what do you mean exactly with that news about Linux? Do you mean that I will able to run ubuntu directly on M1 without natively without virtualization? If yes, it would be great news.  Thank you all so much for your replies, it is truly appreciated.    On 23 Oct 2021, at 1:12 AM, Herbie Allen <herbie.al...@gmail.com> wrote: I dsiagree. While I primarily use the mac, it has also been my best Window’s machine. On Oct 22, 2021, at 13:05, Rebecca Skipper <skipper8...@gmail.com> wrote: Well,Some people still want to install windows on a Mac machine, but I agree with David Woodbridge.It is best to use operating systems in their native environments. From: 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> Sent: Friday, October 22, 2021 2:04 PMTo: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>Subject: Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac I certainly find macbook air with silicon chip is far superior to the intel based ones. Much faster & more responsive. On 22 Oct 2021, at 00:34, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote: I should be able to comment some time in November, assuming that the 14-inch MacBook Pro that I ordered this week is delivered as scheduled. I’m upgrading from a late 2013 model 13-inch MacBook Pro. What I’ve heard (for example, in podcasts by David Woodbridge) is that the performance of VoiceOver is superior with the new hardware architecture, with fewer “busy” messages, for instance. From: 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>Date: Thursday, October 21, 2021 at 12:23To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>Subject: Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on MacHi, I definitely have experience with Apple Silicon both on my MacBook Pro with M1 and on iMac.  It is difficult to specifically compare with Intel I9 processor models,, as I’ve never used one with those specs.  I can tell you though that using an Intel MacBook Air 2020 in comparison to my MBP is a big improvement in performance.  Most “Busy” things that happen to me are because I tend to be impatient with key strokes on on the web.  I’ll press on a link, then start attempting to move around the screen with VO.  That’s when it goes busy.  If I just wait for the link to load, then navigate, then life is better. Later… Tim KilburnJamf Certified TechApple Professional Learning SpecialistApple Teacher(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)Fort McMurray, AB CanadaOn Oct 21, 2021, at 8:36 AM, Muhammad Fayed <m10fa...@gmail.com> wrote: My question is general I think it would be best to reply based on whatever experiences users have.For example, I want M1/M1Pro/M1Max vs latest intel i9 processor on a MacBook Pro.If the generations are older then it would make more sense to consider Apple silicon vs 2019 16” model, 2016 15” and maybe 2012 model, whatever the sizes then.I think that would make more sense.Personally, I have MBP 2016 15” with 2133MHz RAM. I work in the office  on iMac 2020 27” with core I5 the base model, 3.1GHz 6 core i5 with 2666MHz RAM. The Latter feel snappier in usage, but not with large margin although I have migrated my data from MBP to iMac and both have the same 512GB stor

Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

[Muhammad Fayed]

This single message includes a reply for each of you:
Tim, and Andrew, that sounds good.

Rebecca, for windows, the issue mainly in ARM. Windows is optimized for X86. 
Otherwise, if we compare windows on MBP vs windows on other device like Dell 
XPS for example, the difference is due to other factors than the OS itself. 
Windows is designed to work on a large set of devices, so it won’t be optimized 
for specific device on specific workload. But the Mac is optimized for specific 
hardware. That makes Mac faster on its hardware compared to windows assuming 
that heat is not an issue. That’s from a software engineering point of view.
What makes Mac devices sucks, or so said, with Windows is that Apple prefer 
making smaller and cooler and more compact case for their devices. Windows on 
the other hand consumes more energy thus generate more heat in small case 
resulting in throttling issues.

Personally, I prefer not to use Windows on Apple Macbook series because of 
overheated keyboard.

I don’t know about the user experience of windows compared to Mac according to 
fluidity when we have the exact specifications, but with case designed for 
wincows and Mac respectively.

Jason and Yuma, Good luck with your new devices. I wish you great experience 
with them.  I’ll wait for your reviews when you have them. 

Jason, what do you mean exactly with that news about Linux? Do you mean that I 
will able to run ubuntu directly on M1 without natively without virtualization? 
If yes, it would be great news. 

Thank you all so much for your replies, it is truly appreciated.  







> On 23 Oct 2021, at 1:12 AM, Herbie Allen  wrote:
> 
> I dsiagree. While I primarily use the mac, it has also been my best Window’s 
> machine.
> 
> 
>> On Oct 22, 2021, at 13:05, Rebecca Skipper > <mailto:skipper8...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Well,
>> Some people still want to install windows on a Mac machine, but I agree with 
>> David Woodbridge.
>> It is best to use operating systems in their native environments.
>>  
>> From: 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries > <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>> Sent: Friday, October 22, 2021 2:04 PM
>> To: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries > <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>
>> Subject: Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac
>>  
>> I certainly find macbook air with silicon chip is far superior to the intel 
>> based ones. Much faster & more responsive.
>> 
>> 
>>> On 22 Oct 2021, at 00:34, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>>> wrote:
>>>  
>>> I should be able to comment some time in November, assuming that the 
>>> 14-inch MacBook Pro that I ordered this week is delivered as scheduled.
>>>  
>>> I’m upgrading from a late 2013 model 13-inch MacBook Pro.
>>>  
>>> What I’ve heard (for example, in podcasts by David Woodbridge) is that the 
>>> performance of VoiceOver is superior with the new hardware architecture, 
>>> with fewer “busy” messages, for instance.
>>>  
>>> From: 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries >> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>
>>> Date: Thursday, October 21, 2021 at 12:23
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> >> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>
>>> Subject: Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>>  
>>> I definitely have experience with Apple Silicon both on my MacBook Pro with 
>>> M1 and on iMac.  It is difficult to specifically compare with Intel I9 
>>> processor models,, as I’ve never used one with those specs.  I can tell you 
>>> though that using an Intel MacBook Air 2020 in comparison to my MBP is a 
>>> big improvement in performance.  Most “Busy” things that happen to me are 
>>> because I tend to be impatient with key strokes on on the web.  I’ll press 
>>> on a link, then start attempting to move around the screen with VO.  That’s 
>>> when it goes busy.  If I just wait for the link to load, then navigate, 
>>> then life is better.
>>>  
>>> Later…
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Tim Kilburn
>>> Jamf Certified Tech
>>> Apple Professional Learning Specialist
>>> Apple Teacher
>>> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
>>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Oct 21, 2021, at 8:36 AM, Muhammad Fayed >>> <mailto:m10fa...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>  
>>>> My question is general I t

Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

['Jason White' via MacVisionaries]

Note also that Linux is coming to the Mac M1 machines, too. The progress made so far in that direction is impressive, and it doesn’t require virtualization (although you can run a virtual machine as an alternative, if you prefer). From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  on behalf of Rebecca Skipper Date: Friday, October 22, 2021 at 14:06To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on MacWell,Some people still want to install windows on a Mac machine, but I agree with David Woodbridge.It is best to use operating systems in their native environments. From: 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries  Sent: Friday, October 22, 2021 2:04 PMTo: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries Subject: Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac I certainly find macbook air with silicon chip is far superior to the intel based ones Much faster & more responsive. On 22 Oct 2021, at 00:34, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote: I should be able to comment some time in November, assuming that the 14-inch MacBook Pro that I ordered this week is delivered as scheduled. I’m upgrading from a late 2013 model 13-inch MacBook Pro. What I’ve heard (for example, in podcasts by David Woodbridge) is that the performance of VoiceOver is superior with the new hardware architecture, with fewer “busy” messages, for instance. From: 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>Date: Thursday, October 21, 2021 at 12:23To: macvisionaries@googlegroupscom <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>Subject: Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on MacHi, I definitely have experience with Apple Silicon both on my MacBook Pro with M1 and on iMac.  It is difficult to specifically compare with Intel I9 processor models,, as I’ve never used one with those specs.  I can tell you though that using an Intel MacBook Air 2020 in comparison to my MBP is a big improvement in performance.  Most “Busy” things that happen to me are because I tend to be impatient with key strokes on on the web.  I’ll press on a link, then start attempting to move around the screen with VO.  That’s when it goes busy.  If I just wait for the link to load, then navigate, then life is better. Later… Tim KilburnJamf Certified TechApple Professional Learning SpecialistApple Teacher(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)Fort McMurray, AB CanadaOn Oct 21, 2021, at 8:36 AM, Muhammad Fayed <m10fa...@gmail.com> wrote: My question is general I think it would be best to reply based on whatever experiences users have.For example, I want M1/M1Pro/M1Max vs latest intel i9 processor on a MacBook Pro.If the generations are older then it would make more sense to consider Apple silicon vs 2019 16” model, 2016 15” and maybe 2012 model, whatever the sizes then.I think that would make more sense.Personally, I have MBP 2016 15” with 2133MHz RAM. I work in the office  on iMac 2020 27” with core I5 the base model, 3.1GHz 6 core i5 with 2666MHz RAM. The Latter feel snappier in usage, but not with large margin although I have migrated my data from MBP to iMac and both have the same 512GB storage. The storage in iMac may be much faster. I don’t know exact details.In regards to specifications, Apple silicon in every way regarding specifications. I just want to know whether it makes a difference in Voiceover user or not and which makes the most difference.I’m not thinking of getting a new Mac for now because of budget, but I have interest to answer these questions.I may just go to Apple reseller in my city and try devices out. I think that may be the answer to my inquiries in case no-one here has experience with Apple Silicon and is an old Mac user.Thank you so much,Mohamed E. Fayed On 21 Oct 2021, at 3:50 PM, Herbie Allen <herbieal...@gmail.com> wrote:I think a lot of your questions depend on the age of the Mac For instance, I’m running two Macs, one from 2012 and another from 2019. The 2012 runs slowly while my souped up 2019 Mac runs like a charm with none of the issues you are concerned about. I would love to test these  newer Mac’s  myself since this one is  extremely fast and  efficient already.On Oct 21, 2021, at 06:18, Muhammad Fayed <m10fa...@gmail.com> wrote:Hi,,Hope my mail finds you well,Out of curiosity, I wonder how it matters to use Apple Silicon compared to Intel devices. • Is it faster to deal with Apple Silicon Mac and more responsive compared to older Macs?• Does Voiceover says “busy” much less ?• Does image description feature runs faster?• Are there any other differences than those I expected?Thank you so much,Regards,Mohamed E. Fayed -- The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries listIf you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.Your Mac Visionaries

Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

[Herbie Allen]

I dsiagree. While I primarily use the mac, it has also been my best Window’s 
machine.


> On Oct 22, 2021, at 13:05, Rebecca Skipper  wrote:
> 
> Well,
> Some people still want to install windows on a Mac machine, but I agree with 
> David Woodbridge.
> It is best to use operating systems in their native environments.
>  
> From: 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries  
> Sent: Friday, October 22, 2021 2:04 PM
> To: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
> Subject: Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac
>  
> I certainly find macbook air with silicon chip is far superior to the intel 
> based ones. Much faster & more responsive.
> 
> 
>> On 22 Oct 2021, at 00:34, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>> wrote:
>>  
>> I should be able to comment some time in November, assuming that the 14-inch 
>> MacBook Pro that I ordered this week is delivered as scheduled.
>>  
>> I’m upgrading from a late 2013 model 13-inch MacBook Pro.
>>  
>> What I’ve heard (for example, in podcasts by David Woodbridge) is that the 
>> performance of VoiceOver is superior with the new hardware architecture, 
>> with fewer “busy” messages, for instance.
>>  
>> From: 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries > <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>
>> Date: Thursday, October 21, 2021 at 12:23
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> 
>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>
>> Subject: Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac
>> 
>> Hi,
>>  
>> I definitely have experience with Apple Silicon both on my MacBook Pro with 
>> M1 and on iMac.  It is difficult to specifically compare with Intel I9 
>> processor models,, as I’ve never used one with those specs.  I can tell you 
>> though that using an Intel MacBook Air 2020 in comparison to my MBP is a big 
>> improvement in performance.  Most “Busy” things that happen to me are 
>> because I tend to be impatient with key strokes on on the web.  I’ll press 
>> on a link, then start attempting to move around the screen with VO.  That’s 
>> when it goes busy.  If I just wait for the link to load, then navigate, then 
>> life is better.
>>  
>> Later…
>>  
>> 
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Jamf Certified Tech
>> Apple Professional Learning Specialist
>> Apple Teacher
>> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Oct 21, 2021, at 8:36 AM, Muhammad Fayed >> <mailto:m10fa...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>  
>>> My question is general I think it would be best to reply based on whatever 
>>> experiences users have.
>>> 
>>> For example, I want M1/M1Pro/M1Max vs latest intel i9 processor on a 
>>> MacBook Pro.
>>> 
>>> If the generations are older then it would make more sense to consider 
>>> Apple silicon vs 2019 16” model, 2016 15” and maybe 2012 model, whatever 
>>> the sizes then.
>>> 
>>> I think that would make more sense.
>>> 
>>> Personally, I have MBP 2016 15” with 2133MHz RAM. I work in the office  on 
>>> iMac 2020 27” with core I5 the base model, 3.1GHz 6 core i5 with 2666MHz 
>>> RAM. The Latter feel snappier in usage, but not with large margin although 
>>> I have migrated my data from MBP to iMac and both have the same 512GB 
>>> storage. The storage in iMac may be much faster. I don’t know exact details.
>>> 
>>> In regards to specifications, Apple silicon in every way regarding 
>>> specifications. I just want to know whether it makes a difference in 
>>> Voiceover user or not and which makes the most difference.
>>> 
>>> I’m not thinking of getting a new Mac for now because of budget, but I have 
>>> interest to answer these questions.
>>> 
>>> I may just go to Apple reseller in my city and try devices out. I think 
>>> that may be the answer to my inquiries in case no-one here has experience 
>>> with Apple Silicon and is an old Mac user.
>>> 
>>> Thank you so much,
>>> 
>>> Mohamed E. Fayed 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 21 Oct 2021, at 3:50 PM, Herbie Allen >>> <mailto:herbie.al...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I think a lot of your questions depend on the age of the Mac. For 
>>>> instance, I’m running two Macs, one from 2012 and another from 2019. The 
>>>> 2012 runs slowly while my souped up 2019 Mac runs lik

Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

[Yuma Decaux]

Hi,

I just purchased the macbook pro 16 at the highest spec, so I will be able to 
tell you as comparison with the 2019 intel macbook pro 16 which I am selling, 
and so glad to do so. The biggest improvements are really the shedding of the 
touch bar which was an absolute design flaw, back to mechanical function keys 
yay!.

In any case, I'll report back in a month or so when the new beast arrives :)

have a great weekend 



> On 23 Oct 2021, at 4:05 am, Rebecca Skipper  wrote:
> 
> Well,
> Some people still want to install windows on a Mac machine, but I agree with 
> David Woodbridge.
> It is best to use operating systems in their native environments.
>  
> From: 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries  <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
> Sent: Friday, October 22, 2021 2:04 PM
> To: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries  <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>
> Subject: Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac
>  
> I certainly find macbook air with silicon chip is far superior to the intel 
> based ones. Much faster & more responsive.
> 
> 
>> On 22 Oct 2021, at 00:34, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
>> wrote:
>>  
>> I should be able to comment some time in November, assuming that the 14-inch 
>> MacBook Pro that I ordered this week is delivered as scheduled.
>>  
>> I’m upgrading from a late 2013 model 13-inch MacBook Pro.
>>  
>> What I’ve heard (for example, in podcasts by David Woodbridge) is that the 
>> performance of VoiceOver is superior with the new hardware architecture, 
>> with fewer “busy” messages, for instance.
>>  
>> From: 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries > <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>
>> Date: Thursday, October 21, 2021 at 12:23
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>
>> Subject: Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac
>> 
>> Hi,
>>  
>> I definitely have experience with Apple Silicon both on my MacBook Pro with 
>> M1 and on iMac.  It is difficult to specifically compare with Intel I9 
>> processor models,, as I’ve never used one with those specs.  I can tell you 
>> though that using an Intel MacBook Air 2020 in comparison to my MBP is a big 
>> improvement in performance.  Most “Busy” things that happen to me are 
>> because I tend to be impatient with key strokes on on the web.  I’ll press 
>> on a link, then start attempting to move around the screen with VO.  That’s 
>> when it goes busy.  If I just wait for the link to load, then navigate, then 
>> life is better.
>>  
>> Later…
>>  
>> 
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Jamf Certified Tech
>> Apple Professional Learning Specialist
>> Apple Teacher
>> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Oct 21, 2021, at 8:36 AM, Muhammad Fayed >> <mailto:m10fa...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>  
>>> My question is general I think it would be best to reply based on whatever 
>>> experiences users have.
>>> 
>>> For example, I want M1/M1Pro/M1Max vs latest intel i9 processor on a 
>>> MacBook Pro.
>>> 
>>> If the generations are older then it would make more sense to consider 
>>> Apple silicon vs 2019 16” model, 2016 15” and maybe 2012 model, whatever 
>>> the sizes then.
>>> 
>>> I think that would make more sense.
>>> 
>>> Personally, I have MBP 2016 15” with 2133MHz RAM. I work in the office  on 
>>> iMac 2020 27” with core I5 the base model, 3.1GHz 6 core i5 with 2666MHz 
>>> RAM. The Latter feel snappier in usage, but not with large margin although 
>>> I have migrated my data from MBP to iMac and both have the same 512GB 
>>> storage. The storage in iMac may be much faster. I don’t know exact details.
>>> 
>>> In regards to specifications, Apple silicon in every way regarding 
>>> specifications. I just want to know whether it makes a difference in 
>>> Voiceover user or not and which makes the most difference.
>>> 
>>> I’m not thinking of getting a new Mac for now because of budget, but I have 
>>> interest to answer these questions.
>>> 
>>> I may just go to Apple reseller in my city and try devices out. I think 
>>> that may be the answer to my inquiries in case no-one here has experience 
>>> with Apple Silicon and is an old Mac user.
>>> 
>>> Thank you so much,
>>> 
>

RE: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

[Rebecca Skipper]

Well,

Some people still want to install windows on a Mac machine, but I agree with 
David Woodbridge.

It is best to use operating systems in their native environments.

 

From: 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries  
Sent: Friday, October 22, 2021 2:04 PM
To: 'E.T.' via MacVisionaries 
Subject: Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

 

I certainly find macbook air with silicon chip is far superior to the intel 
based ones. Much faster & more responsive.





On 22 Oct 2021, at 00:34, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> > 
wrote:

 

I should be able to comment some time in November, assuming that the 14-inch 
MacBook Pro that I ordered this week is delivered as scheduled.

 

I’m upgrading from a late 2013 model 13-inch MacBook Pro.

 

What I’ve heard (for example, in podcasts by David Woodbridge) is that the 
performance of VoiceOver is superior with the new hardware architecture, with 
fewer “busy” messages, for instance.

 

From: 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> >
Date: Thursday, October 21, 2021 at 12:23
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>  
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> >
Subject: Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

Hi,

 

I definitely have experience with Apple Silicon both on my MacBook Pro with M1 
and on iMac.  It is difficult to specifically compare with Intel I9 processor 
models,, as I’ve never used one with those specs.  I can tell you though that 
using an Intel MacBook Air 2020 in comparison to my MBP is a big improvement in 
performance.  Most “Busy” things that happen to me are because I tend to be 
impatient with key strokes on on the web.  I’ll press on a link, then start 
attempting to move around the screen with VO.  That’s when it goes busy.  If I 
just wait for the link to load, then navigate, then life is better.

 

Later…

 


Tim Kilburn
Jamf Certified Tech
Apple Professional Learning Specialist

Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Fort McMurray, AB Canada






On Oct 21, 2021, at 8:36 AM, Muhammad Fayed mailto:m10fa...@gmail.com> > wrote:

 

My question is general I think it would be best to reply based on whatever 
experiences users have.

For example, I want M1/M1Pro/M1Max vs latest intel i9 processor on a MacBook 
Pro.

If the generations are older then it would make more sense to consider Apple 
silicon vs 2019 16” model, 2016 15” and maybe 2012 model, whatever the sizes 
then.

I think that would make more sense.

Personally, I have MBP 2016 15” with 2133MHz RAM. I work in the office  on iMac 
2020 27” with core I5 the base model, 3.1GHz 6 core i5 with 2666MHz RAM. The 
Latter feel snappier in usage, but not with large margin although I have 
migrated my data from MBP to iMac and both have the same 512GB storage. The 
storage in iMac may be much faster. I don’t know exact details.

In regards to specifications, Apple silicon in every way regarding 
specifications. I just want to know whether it makes a difference in Voiceover 
user or not and which makes the most difference.

I’m not thinking of getting a new Mac for now because of budget, but I have 
interest to answer these questions.

I may just go to Apple reseller in my city and try devices out. I think that 
may be the answer to my inquiries in case no-one here has experience with Apple 
Silicon and is an old Mac user.

Thank you so much,

Mohamed E. Fayed 





On 21 Oct 2021, at 3:50 PM, Herbie Allen mailto:herbie.al...@gmail.com> > wrote:

I think a lot of your questions depend on the age of the Mac. For instance, I’m 
running two Macs, one from 2012 and another from 2019. The 2012 runs slowly 
while my souped up 2019 Mac runs like a charm with none of the issues you are 
concerned about. I would love to test these  newer Mac’s  myself since this one 
is  extremely fast and  efficient already.





On Oct 21, 2021, at 06:18, Muhammad Fayed mailto:m10fa...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Hi,,

Hope my mail finds you well,

Out of curiosity, I wonder how it matters to use Apple Silicon compared to 
Intel devices. 

• Is it faster to deal with Apple Silicon Mac and more responsive compared to 
older Macs?

• Does Voiceover says “busy” much less ?

• Does image description feature runs faster?

• Are there any other differences than those I expected?

Thank you so much,

Regards,

Mohamed E. Fayed 

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu>  and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can 
reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn

Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

['Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries]

I certainly find macbook air with silicon chip is far superior to the intel 
based ones. Much faster & more responsive.

> On 22 Oct 2021, at 00:34, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> I should be able to comment some time in November, assuming that the 14-inch 
> MacBook Pro that I ordered this week is delivered as scheduled.
>  
> I’m upgrading from a late 2013 model 13-inch MacBook Pro.
>  
> What I’ve heard (for example, in podcasts by David Woodbridge) is that the 
> performance of VoiceOver is superior with the new hardware architecture, with 
> fewer “busy” messages, for instance.
>  
> From: 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries 
> Date: Thursday, October 21, 2021 at 12:23
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> Subject: Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac
> 
> Hi,
>  
> I definitely have experience with Apple Silicon both on my MacBook Pro with 
> M1 and on iMac.  It is difficult to specifically compare with Intel I9 
> processor models,, as I’ve never used one with those specs.  I can tell you 
> though that using an Intel MacBook Air 2020 in comparison to my MBP is a big 
> improvement in performance.  Most “Busy” things that happen to me are because 
> I tend to be impatient with key strokes on on the web.  I’ll press on a link, 
> then start attempting to move around the screen with VO.  That’s when it goes 
> busy.  If I just wait for the link to load, then navigate, then life is 
> better.
>  
> Later…
>  
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Jamf Certified Tech
> Apple Professional Learning Specialist
> Apple Teacher
> (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> 
> On Oct 21, 2021, at 8:36 AM, Muhammad Fayed  <mailto:m10fa...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>  
> My question is general I think it would be best to reply based on whatever 
> experiences users have.
> 
> For example, I want M1/M1Pro/M1Max vs latest intel i9 processor on a MacBook 
> Pro.
> 
> If the generations are older then it would make more sense to consider Apple 
> silicon vs 2019 16” model, 2016 15” and maybe 2012 model, whatever the sizes 
> then.
> 
> I think that would make more sense.
> 
> Personally, I have MBP 2016 15” with 2133MHz RAM. I work in the office  on 
> iMac 2020 27” with core I5 the base model, 3.1GHz 6 core i5 with 2666MHz RAM. 
> The Latter feel snappier in usage, but not with large margin although I have 
> migrated my data from MBP to iMac and both have the same 512GB storage. The 
> storage in iMac may be much faster. I don’t know exact details.
> 
> In regards to specifications, Apple silicon in every way regarding 
> specifications. I just want to know whether it makes a difference in 
> Voiceover user or not and which makes the most difference.
> 
> I’m not thinking of getting a new Mac for now because of budget, but I have 
> interest to answer these questions.
> 
> I may just go to Apple reseller in my city and try devices out. I think that 
> may be the answer to my inquiries in case no-one here has experience with 
> Apple Silicon and is an old Mac user.
> 
> Thank you so much,
> 
> Mohamed E. Fayed 
> 
> 
> On 21 Oct 2021, at 3:50 PM, Herbie Allen  <mailto:herbie.al...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> I think a lot of your questions depend on the age of the Mac. For instance, 
> I’m running two Macs, one from 2012 and another from 2019. The 2012 runs 
> slowly while my souped up 2019 Mac runs like a charm with none of the issues 
> you are concerned about. I would love to test these  newer Mac’s  myself 
> since this one is  extremely fast and  efficient already.
> 
> 
> On Oct 21, 2021, at 06:18, Muhammad Fayed  <mailto:m10fa...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> Hi,,
> 
> Hope my mail finds you well,
> 
> Out of curiosity, I wonder how it matters to use Apple Silicon compared to 
> Intel devices. 
> 
> • Is it faster to deal with Apple Silicon Mac and more responsive compared to 
> older Macs?
> 
> • Does Voiceover says “busy” much less ?
> 
> • Does image description feature runs faster?
> 
> • Are there any other differences than those I expected?
> 
> Thank you so much,
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Mohamed E. Fayed 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu> and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can 
&g

Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

['Jason White' via MacVisionaries]

I should be able to comment some time in November, assuming that the 14-inch MacBook Pro that I ordered this week is delivered as scheduled. I’m upgrading from a late 2013 model 13-inch MacBook Pro. What I’ve heard (for example, in podcasts by David Woodbridge) is that the performance of VoiceOver is superior with the new hardware architecture, with fewer “busy” messages, for instance. From: 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries Date: Thursday, October 21, 2021 at 12:23To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on MacHi, I definitely have experience with Apple Silicon both on my MacBook Pro with M1 and on iMac.  It is difficult to specifically compare with Intel I9 processor models,, as I’ve never used one with those specs.  I can tell you though that using an Intel MacBook Air 2020 in comparison to my MBP is a big improvement in performance.  Most “Busy” things that happen to me are because I tend to be impatient with key strokes on on the web.  I’ll press on a link, then start attempting to move around the screen with VO.  That’s when it goes busy.  If I just wait for the link to load, then navigate, then life is better. Later… Tim KilburnJamf Certified TechApple Professional Learning SpecialistApple Teacher(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)Fort McMurray, AB CanadaOn Oct 21, 2021, at 8:36 AM, Muhammad Fayed  wrote: My question is general I think it would be best to reply based on whatever experiences users have.For example, I want M1/M1Pro/M1Max vs latest intel i9 processor on a MacBook Pro.If the generations are older then it would make more sense to consider Apple silicon vs 2019 16” model, 2016 15” and maybe 2012 model, whatever the sizes then.I think that would make more sense.Personally, I have MBP 2016 15” with 2133MHz RAM. I work in the office  on iMac 2020 27” with core I5 the base model, 3.1GHz 6 core i5 with 2666MHz RAM. The Latter feel snappier in usage, but not with large margin although I have migrated my data from MBP to iMac and both have the same 512GB storage. The storage in iMac may be much faster. I don’t know exact details.In regards to specifications, Apple silicon in every way regarding specifications. I just want to know whether it makes a difference in Voiceover user or not and which makes the most difference.I’m not thinking of getting a new Mac for now because of budget, but I have interest to answer these questions.I may just go to Apple reseller in my city and try devices out. I think that may be the answer to my inquiries in case no-one here has experience with Apple Silicon and is an old Mac user.Thank you so much,Mohamed E. Fayed On 21 Oct 2021, at 3:50 PM, Herbie Allen  wrote:I think a lot of your questions depend on the age of the Mac. For instance, I’m running two Macs, one from 2012 and another from 2019. The 2012 runs slowly while my souped up 2019 Mac runs like a charm with none of the issues you are concerned about. I would love to test these  newer Mac’s  myself since this one is  extremely fast and  efficient already.On Oct 21, 2021, at 06:18, Muhammad Fayed  wrote:Hi,,Hope my mail finds you well,Out of curiosity, I wonder how it matters to use Apple Silicon compared to Intel devices. • Is it faster to deal with Apple Silicon Mac and more responsive compared to older Macs?• Does Voiceover says “busy” much less ?• Does image description feature runs faster?• Are there any other differences than those I expected?Thank you so much,Regards,Mohamed E. Fayed -- The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries listIf you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.comThe archives for this list can be searched at:http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/--- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/554F39B2-A1CE-4C90-90D0-E326C1BB0A82%40gmail.com.-- The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries list.If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.comThe archives for this 

Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

['Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries]

Hi,

I definitely have experience with Apple Silicon both on my MacBook Pro with M1 
and on iMac.  It is difficult to specifically compare with Intel I9 processor 
models,, as I’ve never used one with those specs.  I can tell you though that 
using an Intel MacBook Air 2020 in comparison to my MBP is a big improvement in 
performance.  Most “Busy” things that happen to me are because I tend to be 
impatient with key strokes on on the web.  I’ll press on a link, then start 
attempting to move around the screen with VO.  That’s when it goes busy.  If I 
just wait for the link to load, then navigate, then life is better.

Later…


Tim Kilburn
Jamf Certified Tech
Apple Professional Learning Specialist
Apple Teacher
(with Swift Playgrounds Recognition)
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

> On Oct 21, 2021, at 8:36 AM, Muhammad Fayed  wrote:
> 
> My question is general. I think it would be best to reply based on whatever 
> experiences users have.
> 
> For example, I want M1/M1Pro/M1Max vs latest intel i9 processor on a MacBook 
> Pro.
> 
> If the generations are older then it would make more sense to consider Apple 
> silicon vs 2019 16” model, 2016 15” and maybe 2012 model, whatever the sizes 
> then.
> 
> I think that would make more sense.
> 
> Personally, I have MBP 2016 15” with 2133MHz RAM. I work in the office  on 
> iMac 2020 27” with core I5 the base model, 3.1GHz 6 core i5 with 2666MHz RAM. 
> The Latter feel snappier in usage, but not with large margin although I have 
> migrated my data from MBP to iMac and both have the same 512GB storage. The 
> storage in iMac may be much faster. I don’t know exact details.
> 
> In regards to specifications, Apple silicon in every way regarding 
> specifications. I just want to know whether it makes a difference in 
> Voiceover user or not and which makes the most difference.
> 
> I’m not thinking of getting a new Mac for now because of budget, but I have 
> interest to answer these questions.
> 
> I may just go to Apple reseller in my city and try devices out. I think that 
> may be the answer to my inquiries in case no-one here has experience with 
> Apple Silicon and is an old Mac user.
> 
> Thank you so much,
> 
> Mohamed E. Fayed 
> 
>> On 21 Oct 2021, at 3:50 PM, Herbie Allen  wrote:
>> 
>> I think a lot of your questions depend on the age of the Mac. For instance, 
>> I’m running two Macs, one from 2012 and another from 2019. The 2012 runs 
>> slowly while my souped up 2019 Mac runs like a charm with none of the issues 
>> you are concerned about. I would love to test these  newer Mac’s  myself 
>> since this one is  extremely fast and  efficient already.
>> 
>>> On Oct 21, 2021, at 06:18, Muhammad Fayed  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,,
>>> 
>>> Hope my mail finds you well,
>>> 
>>> Out of curiosity, I wonder how it matters to use Apple Silicon compared to 
>>> Intel devices. 
>>> 
>>> • Is it faster to deal with Apple Silicon Mac and more responsive compared 
>>> to older Macs?
>>> 
>>> • Does Voiceover says “busy” much less ?
>>> 
>>> • Does image description feature runs faster?
>>> 
>>> • Are there any other differences than those I expected?
>>> 
>>> Thank you so much,
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> 
>>> Mohamed E. Fayed 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>>> --- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/554F39B2-A1CE-4C90-90D0-E326C1BB0A82%40gmail.com.
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" 

Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

[Muhammad Fayed]

My question is general. I think it would be best to reply based on whatever 
experiences users have.

For example, I want M1/M1Pro/M1Max vs latest intel i9 processor on a MacBook 
Pro.

If the generations are older then it would make more sense to consider Apple 
silicon vs 2019 16” model, 2016 15” and maybe 2012 model, whatever the sizes 
then.

I think that would make more sense.

Personally, I have MBP 2016 15” with 2133MHz RAM. I work in the office  on iMac 
2020 27” with core I5 the base model, 3.1GHz 6 core i5 with 2666MHz RAM. The 
Latter feel snappier in usage, but not with large margin although I have 
migrated my data from MBP to iMac and both have the same 512GB storage. The 
storage in iMac may be much faster. I don’t know exact details.

In regards to specifications, Apple silicon in every way regarding 
specifications. I just want to know whether it makes a difference in Voiceover 
user or not and which makes the most difference.

I’m not thinking of getting a new Mac for now because of budget, but I have 
interest to answer these questions.

I may just go to Apple reseller in my city and try devices out. I think that 
may be the answer to my inquiries in case no-one here has experience with Apple 
Silicon and is an old Mac user.

Thank you so much,

Mohamed E. Fayed 

> On 21 Oct 2021, at 3:50 PM, Herbie Allen  wrote:
> 
> I think a lot of your questions depend on the age of the Mac. For instance, 
> I’m running two Macs, one from 2012 and another from 2019. The 2012 runs 
> slowly while my souped up 2019 Mac runs like a charm with none of the issues 
> you are concerned about. I would love to test these  newer Mac’s  myself 
> since this one is  extremely fast and  efficient already.
> 
>> On Oct 21, 2021, at 06:18, Muhammad Fayed  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,,
>> 
>> Hope my mail finds you well,
>> 
>> Out of curiosity, I wonder how it matters to use Apple Silicon compared to 
>> Intel devices. 
>> 
>> • Is it faster to deal with Apple Silicon Mac and more responsive compared 
>> to older Macs?
>> 
>> • Does Voiceover says “busy” much less ?
>> 
>> • Does image description feature runs faster?
>> 
>> • Are there any other differences than those I expected?
>> 
>> Thank you so much,
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Mohamed E. Fayed 
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/554F39B2-A1CE-4C90-90D0-E326C1BB0A82%40gmail.com.
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/A8795807-EE07-4E37-B6A2-D9C63EAF06CA%40gmail.com.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To 

Re: Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

[Herbie Allen]

I think a lot of your questions depend on the age of the Mac. For instance, I’m 
running two Macs, one from 2012 and another from 2019. The 2012 runs slowly 
while my souped up 2019 Mac runs like a charm with none of the issues you are 
concerned about. I would love to test these  newer Mac’s  myself since this one 
is  extremely fast and  efficient already.

> On Oct 21, 2021, at 06:18, Muhammad Fayed  wrote:
> 
> Hi,,
> 
> Hope my mail finds you well,
> 
> Out of curiosity, I wonder how it matters to use Apple Silicon compared to 
> Intel devices. 
> 
> • Is it faster to deal with Apple Silicon Mac and more responsive compared to 
> older Macs?
> 
> • Does Voiceover says “busy” much less ?
> 
> • Does image description feature runs faster?
> 
> • Are there any other differences than those I expected?
> 
> Thank you so much,
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Mohamed E. Fayed 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
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> To view this discussion on the web visit 
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Apple Silicon vs Intel x86 for Voiceover users on Mac

[Muhammad Fayed]

Hi,,

Hope my mail finds you well,

Out of curiosity, I wonder how it matters to use Apple Silicon compared to 
Intel devices. 

• Is it faster to deal with Apple Silicon Mac and more responsive compared to 
older Macs?

• Does Voiceover says “busy” much less ?

• Does image description feature runs faster?

• Are there any other differences than those I expected?

Thank you so much,

Regards,

Mohamed E. Fayed 

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