RE: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[Simon Fogarty]

I David,

Thanks for this good to nknow,

 And what is codi?

 And who do you use for your vpn back to the USA?

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of David Chittenden
Sent: Thursday, 27 April 2017 3:05 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant 
game

I agree with Scott for the most part. The only problem with Amazon, from the 
Aus / NZ perspective, is that Amazon does not support these markets. So, to use 
Amazon video, it is necessary to use VPN set to the USA. As for NetFlix, I 
consistently find that NetFlix has the best programming (shows) in Aus (when 
comparing Aus, NZ, and US). We like the FireStick better than the Apple TV. 
Then again, we are mainly using Codi to watch shows which are otherwise 
unavailable anywhere else (mainly programming from the 70's to the early 
2000's). It is rather fun watching shows I grew up on.

We also enjoy the occasional movie that is still in the cinima.

Apple TV does not allow Codi.

We prefer the FireStick because as a large USB stick, we plug it into one of 
the USB ports on the TV for power, whilst connecting it to the HDMI port. When 
we turn off the TV, the FireStick is automatically shut down.

Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +61 488 988 936
Sent from my iPhone

> On 25/04/2017, at 21:09, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> Simon, I’m speaking as a US user here so it may be different in your area, 
> David may know what’s available but the content available on Fire TV is 
> better for starters.  (Same with fire stick). I like the Amazon prime content 
> better.  THere’s lot of original programming that’s not available in other 
> places.  I also find the device faster and more responsive, the audio is 
> better, the video is far better at full 4K and the accessibility seems better 
> at this stage because Apple has lost control of things a bit by farming app 
> development back out to end companies.
> 
>> On Apr 24, 2017, at 10:12 PM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>> 
>> SO these fire tv have good accessibility for screen reader users?
>> 
>> Why would I want a fire tv over an apple tv if I was making a choice?
>> 
>> I didn't find the chrome cast 2 much of a benefit and my apple tv works 
>> great for me other than the lack of usefull apps.
>> 
>> I'd like sonos available on my apple tv but it's not.
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
>> Sent: Tuesday, 25 April 2017 2:49 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital 
>> assistant game
>> 
>> The Fire TV has a better remote, better WiFi interface, faster processor, 
>> and a lot more snap to the interface from a user of TTS perspective.  I’m 
>> also not sure if the stick provides 4K video, the Fire TV does.  Both are 
>> good products don’t get me wrong I’m just a bigger fan of the Fire TV itself 
>> and use it more.
>>Yes, Netflix and Hulu and the others have very good accessibility now 
>> including the sign in process.  The registering with providers for content 
>> like CBS and such is also more accessible on the Fire TV than Apple TV 
>> lately.  I think the cost between Fire TV and Apple TV is comparable, about 
>> twice the stick.
>> 
>> Devices aside on the amazon side, I think the content on Amazon is far 
>> better than Apple.  Sure you have iTunes on the Apple and can buy a lot of 
>> good content but that prime subscription sure includes a lot of top shelf 
>> stuff.  Amazon also has a clever way of releasing pilots and new content.  
>> What would have been ideal is if Amazon had made an app for Apple TV to 
>> stream prime content but we know the politics there.  As far as I know 
>> that’s not likely but this may have changed I’m not sure.  I like the button 
>> style of the amazon remote better than the Apple touch remote as well but 
>> that’s a personal preference thing, others probably disagree with me.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Apr 24, 2017, at 10:21 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Scott,
>>> I don't see the use case for a blind person with a Fire TV versus the 
>>> stick. I have a stick, the newer generation. It seems quite responsive. 
>>> Admittedly, I don't have the Fire TV to compare it with. But I just don't 
>>> see the point, unless money is no object and you don't mind spending more. 
>>> Also, it's worth noting with respect to the stick and the AppleTV, that the 
>>> problem both devices have is with third-party apps not being accessible. 
>>> There are still bunches of those that are not accessible with a stick, just 
>>> as there are on the Apple TV apps that are not accessible. When Apple 
>>> change the format and went to apps, it seems 

Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[David Chittenden]

I agree with Scott for the most part. The only problem with Amazon, from the 
Aus / NZ perspective, is that Amazon does not support these markets. So, to use 
Amazon video, it is necessary to use VPN set to the USA. As for NetFlix, I 
consistently find that NetFlix has the best programming (shows) in Aus (when 
comparing Aus, NZ, and US). We like the FireStick better than the Apple TV. 
Then again, we are mainly using Codi to watch shows which are otherwise 
unavailable anywhere else (mainly programming from the 70's to the early 
2000's). It is rather fun watching shows I grew up on.

We also enjoy the occasional movie that is still in the cinima.

Apple TV does not allow Codi.

We prefer the FireStick because as a large USB stick, we plug it into one of 
the USB ports on the TV for power, whilst connecting it to the HDMI port. When 
we turn off the TV, the FireStick is automatically shut down.

Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +61 488 988 936
Sent from my iPhone

> On 25/04/2017, at 21:09, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> Simon, I’m speaking as a US user here so it may be different in your area, 
> David may know what’s available but the content available on Fire TV is 
> better for starters.  (Same with fire stick). I like the Amazon prime content 
> better.  THere’s lot of original programming that’s not available in other 
> places.  I also find the device faster and more responsive, the audio is 
> better, the video is far better at full 4K and the accessibility seems better 
> at this stage because Apple has lost control of things a bit by farming app 
> development back out to end companies.
> 
>> On Apr 24, 2017, at 10:12 PM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>> 
>> SO these fire tv have good accessibility for screen reader users?
>> 
>> Why would I want a fire tv over an apple tv if I was making a choice?
>> 
>> I didn't find the chrome cast 2 much of a benefit and my apple tv works 
>> great for me other than the lack of usefull apps.
>> 
>> I'd like sonos available on my apple tv but it's not.
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
>> Sent: Tuesday, 25 April 2017 2:49 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital 
>> assistant game
>> 
>> The Fire TV has a better remote, better WiFi interface, faster processor, 
>> and a lot more snap to the interface from a user of TTS perspective.  I’m 
>> also not sure if the stick provides 4K video, the Fire TV does.  Both are 
>> good products don’t get me wrong I’m just a bigger fan of the Fire TV itself 
>> and use it more.
>>Yes, Netflix and Hulu and the others have very good accessibility now 
>> including the sign in process.  The registering with providers for content 
>> like CBS and such is also more accessible on the Fire TV than Apple TV 
>> lately.  I think the cost between Fire TV and Apple TV is comparable, about 
>> twice the stick.
>> 
>> Devices aside on the amazon side, I think the content on Amazon is far 
>> better than Apple.  Sure you have iTunes on the Apple and can buy a lot of 
>> good content but that prime subscription sure includes a lot of top shelf 
>> stuff.  Amazon also has a clever way of releasing pilots and new content.  
>> What would have been ideal is if Amazon had made an app for Apple TV to 
>> stream prime content but we know the politics there.  As far as I know 
>> that’s not likely but this may have changed I’m not sure.  I like the button 
>> style of the amazon remote better than the Apple touch remote as well but 
>> that’s a personal preference thing, others probably disagree with me.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Apr 24, 2017, at 10:21 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Scott,
>>> I don't see the use case for a blind person with a Fire TV versus the 
>>> stick. I have a stick, the newer generation. It seems quite responsive. 
>>> Admittedly, I don't have the Fire TV to compare it with. But I just don't 
>>> see the point, unless money is no object and you don't mind spending more. 
>>> Also, it's worth noting with respect to the stick and the AppleTV, that the 
>>> problem both devices have is with third-party apps not being accessible. 
>>> There are still bunches of those that are not accessible with a stick, just 
>>> as there are on the Apple TV apps that are not accessible. When Apple 
>>> change the format and went to apps, it seems to me they lost control over 
>>> their excess ability. So now it's up to the app developers, and many of 
>>> them screw up. Speaking of excess ability, has the Netflix sign in process 
>>> finally become accessible on the fire tv or stick? I know when I signed in 
>>> with mine, I had to have help from a sighted person. Not so with the Apple 
>>> TV.
>>> Of course, I'm sure that is on Netflix  and, not 

RE: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[Simon Fogarty]

Yeah the only reason I have a 4k tv is due to the screan reader in the Samsung 
model I have.

 The models after mine had the screan reader disabled for NZ but yet not in USA 
UK Aus and a couple of other places.
 Go figure.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Scott Granados
Sent: Tuesday, 25 April 2017 11:11 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant 
game

You’re starting to see a lot of 4K here.  Televisions are getting down right 
affordable and why not buy 4K if it doesn’t break your bank.  In my case as 
mentioned as well I have a lot of 4K cameras and creat content in 4K.  I’m just 
trying to imagine if everyone in NZ and AU started streaming 4K.  That might be 
a bandwidth issue.;)


> On Apr 24, 2017, at 10:16 PM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Hi Scott,
> 
> I don't either live in a vacume of blind users But again 4K is so new 
> here in NZ that most users wouldn't know the difference between 4k out put 
> and the previous screen output of my 32inch Samsung LED tv.
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
> Sent: Tuesday, 25 April 2017 3:40 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital 
> assistant game
> 
> Well, as I don’t live in a vacuum of blind only users 4K is important.  We 
> also tend to record a lot of 4K content around here so it’s nice to have the 
> playback option.
> 
> I’ve got a stick as well on the non 4K TV and you’re right it is pretty good. 
>  The size especially makes it nice and it’s great to bring with you if you’re 
> traveling.
> 
> I think my major motivation for going with the Fire TV was the Fire TV was 
> announced as accessible first so when I started ordering them the stick 
> wasn’t an option yet.  You get used to what you use you know how that goes.
> 
> 
>> On Apr 24, 2017, at 11:17 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>> 
>> I don't know if the stick has 4K or not. I doubt it. As a blind person, I 
>> don't care. As for the snappiness, obviously since I don't have a Fire TV, I 
>> cannot compare it with the stick. But I'm pretty satisfied with the 
>> snappiness of the stick. Says the TV doesn't give me any more access than 
>> the stick, I couldn't see spending extra money. To each their own obviously.
>> Mary
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Apr 24, 2017, at 7:49 AM, Scott Granados  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> The Fire TV has a better remote, better WiFi interface, faster processor, 
>>> and a lot more snap to the interface from a user of TTS perspective.  I’m 
>>> also not sure if the stick provides 4K video, the Fire TV does.  Both are 
>>> good products don’t get me wrong I’m just a bigger fan of the Fire TV 
>>> itself and use it more.
>>>  Yes, Netflix and Hulu and the others have very good accessibility now 
>>> including the sign in process.  The registering with providers for content 
>>> like CBS and such is also more accessible on the Fire TV than Apple TV 
>>> lately.  I think the cost between Fire TV and Apple TV is comparable, about 
>>> twice the stick.
>>> 
>>> Devices aside on the amazon side, I think the content on Amazon is far 
>>> better than Apple.  Sure you have iTunes on the Apple and can buy a lot of 
>>> good content but that prime subscription sure includes a lot of top shelf 
>>> stuff.  Amazon also has a clever way of releasing pilots and new content.  
>>> What would have been ideal is if Amazon had made an app for Apple TV to 
>>> stream prime content but we know the politics there.  As far as I know 
>>> that’s not likely but this may have changed I’m not sure.  I like the 
>>> button style of the amazon remote better than the Apple touch remote as 
>>> well but that’s a personal preference thing, others probably disagree with 
>>> me.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Apr 24, 2017, at 10:21 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
 
 Hi Scott,
 I don't see the use case for a blind person with a Fire TV versus the 
 stick. I have a stick, the newer generation. It seems quite responsive. 
 Admittedly, I don't have the Fire TV to compare it with. But I just don't 
 see the point, unless money is no object and you don't mind spending more. 
 Also, it's worth noting with respect to the stick and the AppleTV, that 
 the problem both devices have is with third-party apps not being 
 accessible. There are still bunches of those that are not accessible with 
 a stick, just as there are on the Apple TV apps that are not accessible. 
 When Apple change the format and went to apps, it seems to me they lost 
 control over their excess ability. So now it's up to the app developers, 
 and many of them screw up. 

Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[Scott Granados]

It does not, the fire TV and stick can be enabled with out sited assistance.

> On Apr 24, 2017, at 10:31 PM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> So if the fire stick needs sighted assistance to enable accessibility then is 
> the fire tv any better for accessibility and which one is better between the 
> fire stick and fire tv?
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David Chittenden
> Sent: Tuesday, 25 April 2017 10:44 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital 
> assistant game
> 
> I set up NetFlix myself.
> 
> My partner had to go into settings and turn VoiceAssist on for the FireStick.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 24/04/2017, at 21:12, Ryan Mann  wrote:
>> 
>> Could you set up Netflix yourself or did your partner have to set it up?  
>> What about other settings such as the WIFI network?  I live alone, so if I 
>> was to get a Fire Stick, I would need to be able to set it up.
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Apr 24, 2017, at 6:10 AM, Scott Granados  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I believe there is an accessibility solution for COdi now.  Something 
>>> that’s come out with in the last few weeks.  THere’s been mention of it on 
>>> the android list although I don’t have specifics at hand.  You. Might 
>>> google for a solution as I think one has recently been released.
>>> 
 On Apr 23, 2017, at 4:45 PM, David Chittenden  
 wrote:
 
 I have, and use, an Amazon Fire Stick. In Australia and NZ, it is not 
 possible to check the local weather.
 
 That said, Fire Stick works very well with NetFlicks. Like Apple TV, we 
 have it set to always play Audio Description when available. We prefer 
 Fire Stick over Apple TV, especially because of Codi, a way to watch any 
 show and get around geo restrictions. Unfortunately, it is not speech 
 accessible, so my partner is the only one in this household who can run it.
 
 Kind regards,
 
 David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
 Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
 Mobile: +61 488 988 936
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On 24/04/2017, at 06:32, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
> 
> Hi David and Krister. I just purchased an Amazon Echo Dot a few weeks ago 
> and Alexa works perfectly. I can listen to my favorite iHeartRadio 
> stations and Pandora just fine. Granted I used a VPN to create accounts 
> for both services but even if I didn't have them because they don't work 
> in Canada and if I didn't have a VPN, I could still probably listen to 
> Tunein just fine. Also I had to use an American zipcode for weather but 
> that's no problem. If you ask Alexa for weather conditions in, say 
> Winnipeg where I'm from, she'll tell you what it's like here. Anyway, 
> there are a bunch of articles and Youtube videos that show that you can 
> use Alexa outside the US, you just gotta search for them.
> 
> Shawn
> Sent From My White MacBook
> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
> 
>> On Apr 23, 2017, at 8:29 AM, Krister Ekstrom  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> That was what i was about to write a couple mails ago, many of
>> those digital assistants have no or limited functionality outside
>> the US. I’m not certain that even Google or Siri for that matter
>> works at their fullest here in Sweden and then let’s not even
>> begin to talk Samsungs new Bixby. I wonder when or rather if it
>> will ever reach these cold is it latitudes?:-) /Krister
>> 
>>> 23 apr. 2017 kl. 14:18 skrev David Chittenden :
>>> 
>>> Step outside the US, and Alexa falls apart. Unlike Siri and Google, 
>>> Alexa does not support anything outside it's limited geographical area. 
>>> This is why it is able to be so much better there, it is limited in 
>>> scope.
>>> 
>>> Kind regards,
>>> 
>>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>>> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On 23/04/2017, at 20:50, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
 
 Yes. Just search for Reverb for Amazon Alexa.
 
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On Apr 23, 2017, at 5:44 AM, Simon Fogarty  
> wrote:
> 
> So Sean,
> 
> This amazon alexa is available through an app for my iPhone?
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: 

Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[Scott Granados]

You’re starting to see a lot of 4K here.  Televisions are getting down right 
affordable and why not buy 4K if it doesn’t break your bank.  In my case as 
mentioned as well I have a lot of 4K cameras and creat content in 4K.  I’m just 
trying to imagine if everyone in NZ and AU started streaming 4K.  That might be 
a bandwidth issue.;)


> On Apr 24, 2017, at 10:16 PM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Hi Scott,
> 
> I don't either live in a vacume of blind users
> But again 4K is so new here in NZ that most users wouldn't know the 
> difference between 4k out put and the previous screen output of my 32inch 
> Samsung LED tv.
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
> Sent: Tuesday, 25 April 2017 3:40 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital 
> assistant game
> 
> Well, as I don’t live in a vacuum of blind only users 4K is important.  We 
> also tend to record a lot of 4K content around here so it’s nice to have the 
> playback option.
> 
> I’ve got a stick as well on the non 4K TV and you’re right it is pretty good. 
>  The size especially makes it nice and it’s great to bring with you if you’re 
> traveling.
> 
> I think my major motivation for going with the Fire TV was the Fire TV was 
> announced as accessible first so when I started ordering them the stick 
> wasn’t an option yet.  You get used to what you use you know how that goes.
> 
> 
>> On Apr 24, 2017, at 11:17 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>> 
>> I don't know if the stick has 4K or not. I doubt it. As a blind person, I 
>> don't care. As for the snappiness, obviously since I don't have a Fire TV, I 
>> cannot compare it with the stick. But I'm pretty satisfied with the 
>> snappiness of the stick. Says the TV doesn't give me any more access than 
>> the stick, I couldn't see spending extra money. To each their own obviously.
>> Mary
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Apr 24, 2017, at 7:49 AM, Scott Granados  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> The Fire TV has a better remote, better WiFi interface, faster processor, 
>>> and a lot more snap to the interface from a user of TTS perspective.  I’m 
>>> also not sure if the stick provides 4K video, the Fire TV does.  Both are 
>>> good products don’t get me wrong I’m just a bigger fan of the Fire TV 
>>> itself and use it more.
>>>  Yes, Netflix and Hulu and the others have very good accessibility now 
>>> including the sign in process.  The registering with providers for content 
>>> like CBS and such is also more accessible on the Fire TV than Apple TV 
>>> lately.  I think the cost between Fire TV and Apple TV is comparable, about 
>>> twice the stick.
>>> 
>>> Devices aside on the amazon side, I think the content on Amazon is far 
>>> better than Apple.  Sure you have iTunes on the Apple and can buy a lot of 
>>> good content but that prime subscription sure includes a lot of top shelf 
>>> stuff.  Amazon also has a clever way of releasing pilots and new content.  
>>> What would have been ideal is if Amazon had made an app for Apple TV to 
>>> stream prime content but we know the politics there.  As far as I know 
>>> that’s not likely but this may have changed I’m not sure.  I like the 
>>> button style of the amazon remote better than the Apple touch remote as 
>>> well but that’s a personal preference thing, others probably disagree with 
>>> me.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Apr 24, 2017, at 10:21 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
 
 Hi Scott,
 I don't see the use case for a blind person with a Fire TV versus the 
 stick. I have a stick, the newer generation. It seems quite responsive. 
 Admittedly, I don't have the Fire TV to compare it with. But I just don't 
 see the point, unless money is no object and you don't mind spending more. 
 Also, it's worth noting with respect to the stick and the AppleTV, that 
 the problem both devices have is with third-party apps not being 
 accessible. There are still bunches of those that are not accessible with 
 a stick, just as there are on the Apple TV apps that are not accessible. 
 When Apple change the format and went to apps, it seems to me they lost 
 control over their excess ability. So now it's up to the app developers, 
 and many of them screw up. Speaking of excess ability, has the Netflix 
 sign in process finally become accessible on the fire tv or stick? I know 
 when I signed in with mine, I had to have help from a sighted person. Not 
 so with the Apple TV.
 Of course, I'm sure that is on Netflix  and, not Amazons. But it does 
 illustrate the problem. We are so dependent on third-party apps with 
 regard to whether these devices are really useful and accessible or not.
 Sent from my  iPhone
 
> On Apr 24, 2017, at 

Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[Scott Granados]

Simon, I’m speaking as a US user here so it may be different in your area, 
David may know what’s available but the content available on Fire TV is better 
for starters.  (Same with fire stick). I like the Amazon prime content better.  
THere’s lot of original programming that’s not available in other places.  I 
also find the device faster and more responsive, the audio is better, the video 
is far better at full 4K and the accessibility seems better at this stage 
because Apple has lost control of things a bit by farming app development back 
out to end companies.

> On Apr 24, 2017, at 10:12 PM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> SO these fire tv have good accessibility for screen reader users?
> 
> Why would I want a fire tv over an apple tv if I was making a choice?
> 
> I didn't find the chrome cast 2 much of a benefit and my apple tv works great 
> for me other than the lack of usefull apps.
> 
> I'd like sonos available on my apple tv but it's not.
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
> Sent: Tuesday, 25 April 2017 2:49 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital 
> assistant game
> 
> The Fire TV has a better remote, better WiFi interface, faster processor, and 
> a lot more snap to the interface from a user of TTS perspective.  I’m also 
> not sure if the stick provides 4K video, the Fire TV does.  Both are good 
> products don’t get me wrong I’m just a bigger fan of the Fire TV itself and 
> use it more.
>   Yes, Netflix and Hulu and the others have very good accessibility now 
> including the sign in process.  The registering with providers for content 
> like CBS and such is also more accessible on the Fire TV than Apple TV 
> lately.  I think the cost between Fire TV and Apple TV is comparable, about 
> twice the stick.
> 
> Devices aside on the amazon side, I think the content on Amazon is far better 
> than Apple.  Sure you have iTunes on the Apple and can buy a lot of good 
> content but that prime subscription sure includes a lot of top shelf stuff.  
> Amazon also has a clever way of releasing pilots and new content.  What would 
> have been ideal is if Amazon had made an app for Apple TV to stream prime 
> content but we know the politics there.  As far as I know that’s not likely 
> but this may have changed I’m not sure.  I like the button style of the 
> amazon remote better than the Apple touch remote as well but that’s a 
> personal preference thing, others probably disagree with me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Apr 24, 2017, at 10:21 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Scott,
>> I don't see the use case for a blind person with a Fire TV versus the stick. 
>> I have a stick, the newer generation. It seems quite responsive. Admittedly, 
>> I don't have the Fire TV to compare it with. But I just don't see the point, 
>> unless money is no object and you don't mind spending more. Also, it's worth 
>> noting with respect to the stick and the AppleTV, that the problem both 
>> devices have is with third-party apps not being accessible. There are still 
>> bunches of those that are not accessible with a stick, just as there are on 
>> the Apple TV apps that are not accessible. When Apple change the format and 
>> went to apps, it seems to me they lost control over their excess ability. So 
>> now it's up to the app developers, and many of them screw up. Speaking of 
>> excess ability, has the Netflix sign in process finally become accessible on 
>> the fire tv or stick? I know when I signed in with mine, I had to have help 
>> from a sighted person. Not so with the Apple TV.
>> Of course, I'm sure that is on Netflix  and, not Amazons. But it does 
>> illustrate the problem. We are so dependent on third-party apps with regard 
>> to whether these devices are really useful and accessible or not.
>> Sent from my  iPhone
>> 
>>> On Apr 24, 2017, at 6:55 AM, Scott Granados  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> You would want a Fire TV in my opinion, not a fire stick.  The stick is a 
>>> bit less powered and while a good product the Fire TV is a very very good 
>>> product.  Accessibility has been continuously improved and the access to 
>>> prime video content is fantastic.  The stick has a slower processor, less 
>>> memory and is a bit different design.
>>>  The Apple TV to me is a let down, yet another thing Apple is failing at 
>>> but more specifically when it comes to accessibility.  The product is OK 
>>> but it’s getting less and less accessible as time passes.
>>> 
 On Apr 24, 2017, at 8:49 AM, Jessica Moss  
 wrote:
 
 Oh cool, how exactly does the firestick differ from the Apple Tv, other 
 than it’s way less moneywise, and is a USB stick?
> On Apr 24, 2017, at 12:02 AM, David Chittenden  
> wrote:

RE: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[Simon Fogarty]

Yeah just reading an article on the net about the 3 amazon fire  devices 
There is the TV Stick, the TV Box and the TV Game box,

  And according to the blog article the TV is about 40% less perforamance than 
the TV Box,

 Both come with the remote and alexa but in NZ they don't have the same voice 
interaction  as they do in the States,
 And media availability is a lot less than in the USA,
 Infact I haven't yet found a retailer that sells them here in NZ.except for 
amazon.

-Original Message-
From: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, 25 April 2017 3:35 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant 
game

I actually won an Amazon Dot as a door prize from an internet security seminar 
so I figured I should at least plug the thing in. It's turned out to be quite 
handy as an always on assistant. Even though Siri can do many of these things, 
I don't have to fish a phone out of my pocket. 
Things like setting a timer, checking the weather and quick wikipedia page 
lookups turn out to be quite handy. My wife just says "listen to wxyz" and some 
radio station she likes from some other state starts playing. The kids like it 
to tell them jokes. I'm not sure I would have paid $100 for all that, but so 
far it's useful.

CB

On 4/23/17 4:32 PM, Shawn Krasniuk wrote:
> Hi David and Krister. I just purchased an Amazon Echo Dot a few weeks ago and 
> Alexa works perfectly. I can listen to my favorite iHeartRadio stations and 
> Pandora just fine. Granted I used a VPN to create accounts for both services 
> but even if I didn't have them because they don't work in Canada and if I 
> didn't have a VPN, I could still probably listen to Tunein just fine. Also I 
> had to use an American zipcode for weather but that's no problem. If you ask 
> Alexa for weather conditions in, say Winnipeg where I'm from, she'll tell you 
> what it's like here. Anyway, there are a bunch of articles and Youtube videos 
> that show that you can use Alexa outside the US, you just gotta search for 
> them.
>
> Shawn
> Sent From My White MacBook
> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
>
>> On Apr 23, 2017, at 8:29 AM, Krister Ekstrom  
>> wrote:
>>
>> That was what i was about to write a couple mails ago, many of those 
>> digital assistants have no or limited functionality outside the US. 
>> I’m not certain that even Google or Siri for that matter works at 
>> their fullest here in Sweden and then let’s not even begin to talk 
>> Samsungs new Bixby. I wonder when or rather if it will ever reach 
>> these cold is it latitudes?:-) /Krister
>>
>>> 23 apr. 2017 kl. 14:18 skrev David Chittenden :
>>>
>>> Step outside the US, and Alexa falls apart. Unlike Siri and Google, Alexa 
>>> does not support anything outside it's limited geographical area. This is 
>>> why it is able to be so much better there, it is limited in scope.
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>>
>>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>>> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
 On 23/04/2017, at 20:50, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:

 Yes. Just search for Reverb for Amazon Alexa.


 Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 23, 2017, at 5:44 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>
> So Sean,
>
> This amazon alexa is available through an app for my iPhone?
>
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Shawn 
> Krasniuk
> Sent: Sunday, 23 April 2017 9:47 PM
> To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
> 
> Subject: Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the 
> digital assistant game
>
> Hi Scott. I'm not Yuma but I can tell you who I think is the better AI. 
> After watching demos of the two of them, Alexa still wins hands down. 
> Sure, with Google Now, when you ask it questions, you can ask subsequent 
> questions about the topic you started with it. Alexa has a hard time with 
> that, but she has more smart devices she can connect to than Google. On a 
> video I saw, you can rectify the problem by using IFTTT, but that sounds 
> like it could be more complicated than it should be. Also, it just sounds 
> better to call your virtual assistant by a name rather than Google or 
> Amazon, so Alexa wins there too. Lastly, I can use Alexa anywhere I wish, 
> on my Mac or on my phone using Reverb and Google doesn't have anything 
> like that yet to my knowledge besides Allo, which like I said in my last 
> message, only sends messages through text. I'd rather have the app speak 
> the messages the assistant 

Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[David Tanner]

There is a built in screen reader in this product.

David Tanner

>From my iPhone 7

> On Apr 24, 2017, at 9:51 AM, John Panarese  wrote:
> 
>   OK. So how are you guys using the Fire Stick? I can’t find any information 
> about its accessibility and how one uses it as a totally blind person. If you 
> are doing so, please contact me off list.
> 
> 
> Take Care
> 
> John D. Panarese
> Director
> Mac for the Blind
> Tel, (631) 724-4479
> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
> 
> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL FOR MAC OSX LION
> 
> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
> 
> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
> 
> 
> 
>> On Apr 24, 2017, at 10:49 AM, Scott Granados  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> The Fire TV has a better remote, better WiFi interface, faster processor, 
>> and a lot more snap to the interface from a user of TTS perspective.  I’m 
>> also not sure if the stick provides 4K video, the Fire TV does.  Both are 
>> good products don’t get me wrong I’m just a bigger fan of the Fire TV itself 
>> and use it more.
>>  Yes, Netflix and Hulu and the others have very good accessibility now 
>> including the sign in process.  The registering with providers for content 
>> like CBS and such is also more accessible on the Fire TV than Apple TV 
>> lately.  I think the cost between Fire TV and Apple TV is comparable, about 
>> twice the stick.
>> 
>> Devices aside on the amazon side, I think the content on Amazon is far 
>> better than Apple.  Sure you have iTunes on the Apple and can buy a lot of 
>> good content but that prime subscription sure includes a lot of top shelf 
>> stuff.  Amazon also has a clever way of releasing pilots and new content.  
>> What would have been ideal is if Amazon had made an app for Apple TV to 
>> stream prime content but we know the politics there.  As far as I know 
>> that’s not likely but this may have changed I’m not sure.  I like the button 
>> style of the amazon remote better than the Apple touch remote as well but 
>> that’s a personal preference thing, others probably disagree with me.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Apr 24, 2017, at 10:21 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Scott,
>>> I don't see the use case for a blind person with a Fire TV versus the 
>>> stick. I have a stick, the newer generation. It seems quite responsive. 
>>> Admittedly, I don't have the Fire TV to compare it with. But I just don't 
>>> see the point, unless money is no object and you don't mind spending more. 
>>> Also, it's worth noting with respect to the stick and the AppleTV, that the 
>>> problem both devices have is with third-party apps not being accessible. 
>>> There are still bunches of those that are not accessible with a stick, just 
>>> as there are on the Apple TV apps that are not accessible. When Apple 
>>> change the format and went to apps, it seems to me they lost control over 
>>> their excess ability. So now it's up to the app developers, and many of 
>>> them screw up. Speaking of excess ability, has the Netflix sign in process 
>>> finally become accessible on the fire tv or stick? I know when I signed in 
>>> with mine, I had to have help from a sighted person. Not so with the Apple 
>>> TV.
>>> Of course, I'm sure that is on Netflix  and, not Amazons. But it does 
>>> illustrate the problem. We are so dependent on third-party apps with regard 
>>> to whether these devices are really useful and accessible or not.
>>> Sent from my  iPhone
>>> 
 On Apr 24, 2017, at 6:55 AM, Scott Granados  
 wrote:
 
 You would want a Fire TV in my opinion, not a fire stick.  The stick is a 
 bit less powered and while a good product the Fire TV is a very very good 
 product.  Accessibility has been continuously improved and the access to 
 prime video content is fantastic.  The stick has a slower processor, less 
 memory and is a bit different design.
  The Apple TV to me is a let down, yet another thing Apple is failing at 
 but more specifically when it comes to accessibility.  The product is OK 
 but it’s getting less and less accessible as time passes.
 
> On Apr 24, 2017, at 8:49 AM, Jessica Moss  
> wrote:
> 
> Oh cool, how exactly does the firestick differ from the Apple Tv, other 
> than it’s way less moneywise, and is a USB stick?
>> On Apr 24, 2017, at 12:02 AM, David Chittenden  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Yes, these devices have parental control settings.
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> 
>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 24/04/2017, at 10:42, Jessica Moss  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Ok, probably a stupid question, but is there a way with those, to 
>>> filter out what content you 

Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

['Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries]

I actually won an Amazon Dot as a door prize from an internet security 
seminar so I figured I should at least plug the thing in. It's turned 
out to be quite handy as an always on assistant. Even though Siri can do 
many of these things, I don't have to fish a phone out of my pocket. 
Things like setting a timer, checking the weather and quick wikipedia 
page lookups turn out to be quite handy. My wife just says "listen to 
wxyz" and some radio station she likes from some other state starts 
playing. The kids like it to tell them jokes. I'm not sure I would have 
paid $100 for all that, but so far it's useful.


CB

On 4/23/17 4:32 PM, Shawn Krasniuk wrote:

Hi David and Krister. I just purchased an Amazon Echo Dot a few weeks ago and 
Alexa works perfectly. I can listen to my favorite iHeartRadio stations and 
Pandora just fine. Granted I used a VPN to create accounts for both services 
but even if I didn't have them because they don't work in Canada and if I 
didn't have a VPN, I could still probably listen to Tunein just fine. Also I 
had to use an American zipcode for weather but that's no problem. If you ask 
Alexa for weather conditions in, say Winnipeg where I'm from, she'll tell you 
what it's like here. Anyway, there are a bunch of articles and Youtube videos 
that show that you can use Alexa outside the US, you just gotta search for them.

Shawn
Sent From My White MacBook
Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com


On Apr 23, 2017, at 8:29 AM, Krister Ekstrom  wrote:

That was what i was about to write a couple mails ago, many of those digital 
assistants have no or limited functionality outside the US. I’m not certain 
that even Google or Siri for that matter works at their fullest here in Sweden 
and then let’s not even begin to talk Samsungs new Bixby. I wonder when or 
rather if it will ever reach these cold is it latitudes?:-)
/Krister


23 apr. 2017 kl. 14:18 skrev David Chittenden :

Step outside the US, and Alexa falls apart. Unlike Siri and Google, Alexa does 
not support anything outside it's limited geographical area. This is why it is 
able to be so much better there, it is limited in scope.

Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +61 488 988 936
Sent from my iPhone


On 23/04/2017, at 20:50, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:

Yes. Just search for Reverb for Amazon Alexa.


Sent from my iPhone


On Apr 23, 2017, at 5:44 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:

So Sean,

This amazon alexa is available through an app for my iPhone?

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Shawn Krasniuk
Sent: Sunday, 23 April 2017 9:47 PM
To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
Subject: Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant 
game

Hi Scott. I'm not Yuma but I can tell you who I think is the better AI. After 
watching demos of the two of them, Alexa still wins hands down. Sure, with 
Google Now, when you ask it questions, you can ask subsequent questions about 
the topic you started with it. Alexa has a hard time with that, but she has 
more smart devices she can connect to than Google. On a video I saw, you can 
rectify the problem by using IFTTT, but that sounds like it could be more 
complicated than it should be. Also, it just sounds better to call your virtual 
assistant by a name rather than Google or Amazon, so Alexa wins there too. 
Lastly, I can use Alexa anywhere I wish, on my Mac or on my phone using Reverb 
and Google doesn't have anything like that yet to my knowledge besides Allo, 
which like I said in my last message, only sends messages through text. I'd 
rather have the app speak the messages the assistant sends automatically like 
Alexa does in Reverb. So for me, Alexa takes it.

Shawn
Sent From My White MacBook
Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com


On Apr 23, 2017, at 3:19 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:

Wow there’s a lot of great points here.

I’m curious, as someone who’s heavily involved in AI who do you think is the 
absolute cutting edge right now outside the classified space.  Maybe you could 
rank a little the major publicly visible efforts like Watson verses Google 
verses Amazon and such.  Who makes you think wow that’s really impressive?  We 
know Apple in many ways is behind the times but who’s way ahead?

Also, do you have any published papers or anything I could read of your work 
you’ve impressed me with your response and I’d like to learn more about where 
you’re coming from.

Thanks
Scott



On Apr 23, 2017, at 3:54 AM, Yuma Decaux  wrote:

I wanted to chime in for a few points:

Apple is dispersing 

Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[Ryan Mann]

Rmann0581 at gmail.com.  I spelled At out so it would be harder for spam 
programs to get my address.


Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 24, 2017, at 10:51 PM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Hi Ryan,
> Sure whats your address?
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Mann
> Sent: Tuesday, 25 April 2017 2:46 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital 
> assistant game
> 
> Would you contact me off list as well?
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 24, 2017, at 10:31 PM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>> 
>> So if the fire stick needs sighted assistance to enable accessibility then 
>> is the fire tv any better for accessibility and which one is better between 
>> the fire stick and fire tv?
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David Chittenden
>> Sent: Tuesday, 25 April 2017 10:44 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital 
>> assistant game
>> 
>> I set up NetFlix myself.
>> 
>> My partner had to go into settings and turn VoiceAssist on for the FireStick.
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> 
>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 24/04/2017, at 21:12, Ryan Mann  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Could you set up Netflix yourself or did your partner have to set it up?  
>>> What about other settings such as the WIFI network?  I live alone, so if I 
>>> was to get a Fire Stick, I would need to be able to set it up.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Apr 24, 2017, at 6:10 AM, Scott Granados  
 wrote:
 
 I believe there is an accessibility solution for COdi now.  Something 
 that’s come out with in the last few weeks.  THere’s been mention of it on 
 the android list although I don’t have specifics at hand.  You. Might 
 google for a solution as I think one has recently been released.
 
> On Apr 23, 2017, at 4:45 PM, David Chittenden  
> wrote:
> 
> I have, and use, an Amazon Fire Stick. In Australia and NZ, it is not 
> possible to check the local weather.
> 
> That said, Fire Stick works very well with NetFlicks. Like Apple TV, we 
> have it set to always play Audio Description when available. We prefer 
> Fire Stick over Apple TV, especially because of Codi, a way to watch any 
> show and get around geo restrictions. Unfortunately, it is not speech 
> accessible, so my partner is the only one in this household who can run 
> it.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 24/04/2017, at 06:32, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi David and Krister. I just purchased an Amazon Echo Dot a few weeks 
>> ago and Alexa works perfectly. I can listen to my favorite iHeartRadio 
>> stations and Pandora just fine. Granted I used a VPN to create accounts 
>> for both services but even if I didn't have them because they don't work 
>> in Canada and if I didn't have a VPN, I could still probably listen to 
>> Tunein just fine. Also I had to use an American zipcode for weather but 
>> that's no problem. If you ask Alexa for weather conditions in, say 
>> Winnipeg where I'm from, she'll tell you what it's like here. Anyway, 
>> there are a bunch of articles and Youtube videos that show that you can 
>> use Alexa outside the US, you just gotta search for them.
>> 
>> Shawn
>> Sent From My White MacBook
>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
>> 
>>> On Apr 23, 2017, at 8:29 AM, Krister Ekstrom 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> That was what i was about to write a couple mails ago, many of 
>>> those digital assistants have no or limited functionality outside 
>>> the US. I’m not certain that even Google or Siri for that matter 
>>> works at their fullest here in Sweden and then let’s not even 
>>> begin to talk Samsungs new Bixby. I wonder when or rather if it 
>>> will ever reach these cold is it latitudes?:-) /Krister
>>> 
 23 apr. 2017 kl. 14:18 skrev David Chittenden :
 
 Step outside the US, and Alexa falls apart. Unlike Siri and Google, 
 Alexa does not support anything outside it's limited geographical 
 area. This is why it is able to be so much better there, it is limited 
 in scope.

RE: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[Simon Fogarty]

Hi Ryan,
Sure whats your address?

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Ryan Mann
Sent: Tuesday, 25 April 2017 2:46 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant 
game

Would you contact me off list as well?
Thanks.


Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 24, 2017, at 10:31 PM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> So if the fire stick needs sighted assistance to enable accessibility then is 
> the fire tv any better for accessibility and which one is better between the 
> fire stick and fire tv?
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David Chittenden
> Sent: Tuesday, 25 April 2017 10:44 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital 
> assistant game
> 
> I set up NetFlix myself.
> 
> My partner had to go into settings and turn VoiceAssist on for the FireStick.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 24/04/2017, at 21:12, Ryan Mann  wrote:
>> 
>> Could you set up Netflix yourself or did your partner have to set it up?  
>> What about other settings such as the WIFI network?  I live alone, so if I 
>> was to get a Fire Stick, I would need to be able to set it up.
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Apr 24, 2017, at 6:10 AM, Scott Granados  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I believe there is an accessibility solution for COdi now.  Something 
>>> that’s come out with in the last few weeks.  THere’s been mention of it on 
>>> the android list although I don’t have specifics at hand.  You. Might 
>>> google for a solution as I think one has recently been released.
>>> 
 On Apr 23, 2017, at 4:45 PM, David Chittenden  
 wrote:
 
 I have, and use, an Amazon Fire Stick. In Australia and NZ, it is not 
 possible to check the local weather.
 
 That said, Fire Stick works very well with NetFlicks. Like Apple TV, we 
 have it set to always play Audio Description when available. We prefer 
 Fire Stick over Apple TV, especially because of Codi, a way to watch any 
 show and get around geo restrictions. Unfortunately, it is not speech 
 accessible, so my partner is the only one in this household who can run it.
 
 Kind regards,
 
 David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
 Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
 Mobile: +61 488 988 936
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On 24/04/2017, at 06:32, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
> 
> Hi David and Krister. I just purchased an Amazon Echo Dot a few weeks ago 
> and Alexa works perfectly. I can listen to my favorite iHeartRadio 
> stations and Pandora just fine. Granted I used a VPN to create accounts 
> for both services but even if I didn't have them because they don't work 
> in Canada and if I didn't have a VPN, I could still probably listen to 
> Tunein just fine. Also I had to use an American zipcode for weather but 
> that's no problem. If you ask Alexa for weather conditions in, say 
> Winnipeg where I'm from, she'll tell you what it's like here. Anyway, 
> there are a bunch of articles and Youtube videos that show that you can 
> use Alexa outside the US, you just gotta search for them.
> 
> Shawn
> Sent From My White MacBook
> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
> 
>> On Apr 23, 2017, at 8:29 AM, Krister Ekstrom  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> That was what i was about to write a couple mails ago, many of 
>> those digital assistants have no or limited functionality outside 
>> the US. I’m not certain that even Google or Siri for that matter 
>> works at their fullest here in Sweden and then let’s not even 
>> begin to talk Samsungs new Bixby. I wonder when or rather if it 
>> will ever reach these cold is it latitudes?:-) /Krister
>> 
>>> 23 apr. 2017 kl. 14:18 skrev David Chittenden :
>>> 
>>> Step outside the US, and Alexa falls apart. Unlike Siri and Google, 
>>> Alexa does not support anything outside it's limited geographical area. 
>>> This is why it is able to be so much better there, it is limited in 
>>> scope.
>>> 
>>> Kind regards,
>>> 
>>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>>> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On 23/04/2017, at 20:50, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
 
 Yes. Just search for Reverb for Amazon Alexa.
 
 

RE: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[Simon Fogarty]

So David,

If you were buying one now which one would you go for concidring what NZ gets 
in regard to netflicks etc?

Note I have an apple tv 4th gen.


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of David Chittenden
Sent: Tuesday, 25 April 2017 2:36 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant 
game

In The US, Amazon FireStick works on par with Apple TV, and is about $100 USD 
less expensive. It only has 8 GB onboard memory for apps. It has a good talking 
(you talk to it) interface. The text to speech side is not as robust as Apple. 
For the money, we find it worth it. We only use the Apple TV now if we need to 
AirPlay from the iOS device (iPhone or iPad). As our Sonos is connected to the 
digital audio out jack of the Samsung TV, and the latest Samsung TV has decent 
speech, and the Firestick has decent speech, we use it daily. I think we used 
the Apple TV about two months ago.

That said, we use Siri on our Apple devices significantly more often than Alexa 
on the FireStick because all information from Alexa is US specific.

Oh, another benefit of FireStick is the Android nature, we can load apps which 
are not approved by the Amazon app store (Codi, for example).

Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +61 488 988 936
Sent from my iPhone

> On 25/04/2017, at 12:12, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> SO these fire tv have good accessibility for screen reader users?
> 
> Why would I want a fire tv over an apple tv if I was making a choice?
> 
> I didn't find the chrome cast 2 much of a benefit and my apple tv works great 
> for me other than the lack of usefull apps.
> 
> I'd like sonos available on my apple tv but it's not.
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
> Sent: Tuesday, 25 April 2017 2:49 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital 
> assistant game
> 
> The Fire TV has a better remote, better WiFi interface, faster processor, and 
> a lot more snap to the interface from a user of TTS perspective.  I’m also 
> not sure if the stick provides 4K video, the Fire TV does.  Both are good 
> products don’t get me wrong I’m just a bigger fan of the Fire TV itself and 
> use it more.
>Yes, Netflix and Hulu and the others have very good accessibility now 
> including the sign in process.  The registering with providers for content 
> like CBS and such is also more accessible on the Fire TV than Apple TV 
> lately.  I think the cost between Fire TV and Apple TV is comparable, about 
> twice the stick.
> 
> Devices aside on the amazon side, I think the content on Amazon is far better 
> than Apple.  Sure you have iTunes on the Apple and can buy a lot of good 
> content but that prime subscription sure includes a lot of top shelf stuff.  
> Amazon also has a clever way of releasing pilots and new content.  What would 
> have been ideal is if Amazon had made an app for Apple TV to stream prime 
> content but we know the politics there.  As far as I know that’s not likely 
> but this may have changed I’m not sure.  I like the button style of the 
> amazon remote better than the Apple touch remote as well but that’s a 
> personal preference thing, others probably disagree with me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Apr 24, 2017, at 10:21 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Scott,
>> I don't see the use case for a blind person with a Fire TV versus the stick. 
>> I have a stick, the newer generation. It seems quite responsive. Admittedly, 
>> I don't have the Fire TV to compare it with. But I just don't see the point, 
>> unless money is no object and you don't mind spending more. Also, it's worth 
>> noting with respect to the stick and the AppleTV, that the problem both 
>> devices have is with third-party apps not being accessible. There are still 
>> bunches of those that are not accessible with a stick, just as there are on 
>> the Apple TV apps that are not accessible. When Apple change the format and 
>> went to apps, it seems to me they lost control over their excess ability. So 
>> now it's up to the app developers, and many of them screw up. Speaking of 
>> excess ability, has the Netflix sign in process finally become accessible on 
>> the fire tv or stick? I know when I signed in with mine, I had to have help 
>> from a sighted person. Not so with the Apple TV.
>> Of course, I'm sure that is on Netflix  and, not Amazons. But it does 
>> illustrate the problem. We are so dependent on third-party apps with regard 
>> to whether these devices are really useful and accessible or not.
>> Sent from my  iPhone
>> 
>>> On Apr 24, 2017, at 6:55 AM, Scott Granados  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> You would want a 

Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[Ryan Mann]

Would you contact me off list as well?
Thanks.


Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 24, 2017, at 10:31 PM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> So if the fire stick needs sighted assistance to enable accessibility then is 
> the fire tv any better for accessibility and which one is better between the 
> fire stick and fire tv?
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David Chittenden
> Sent: Tuesday, 25 April 2017 10:44 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital 
> assistant game
> 
> I set up NetFlix myself.
> 
> My partner had to go into settings and turn VoiceAssist on for the FireStick.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 24/04/2017, at 21:12, Ryan Mann  wrote:
>> 
>> Could you set up Netflix yourself or did your partner have to set it up?  
>> What about other settings such as the WIFI network?  I live alone, so if I 
>> was to get a Fire Stick, I would need to be able to set it up.
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Apr 24, 2017, at 6:10 AM, Scott Granados  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I believe there is an accessibility solution for COdi now.  Something 
>>> that’s come out with in the last few weeks.  THere’s been mention of it on 
>>> the android list although I don’t have specifics at hand.  You. Might 
>>> google for a solution as I think one has recently been released.
>>> 
 On Apr 23, 2017, at 4:45 PM, David Chittenden  
 wrote:
 
 I have, and use, an Amazon Fire Stick. In Australia and NZ, it is not 
 possible to check the local weather.
 
 That said, Fire Stick works very well with NetFlicks. Like Apple TV, we 
 have it set to always play Audio Description when available. We prefer 
 Fire Stick over Apple TV, especially because of Codi, a way to watch any 
 show and get around geo restrictions. Unfortunately, it is not speech 
 accessible, so my partner is the only one in this household who can run it.
 
 Kind regards,
 
 David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
 Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
 Mobile: +61 488 988 936
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On 24/04/2017, at 06:32, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
> 
> Hi David and Krister. I just purchased an Amazon Echo Dot a few weeks ago 
> and Alexa works perfectly. I can listen to my favorite iHeartRadio 
> stations and Pandora just fine. Granted I used a VPN to create accounts 
> for both services but even if I didn't have them because they don't work 
> in Canada and if I didn't have a VPN, I could still probably listen to 
> Tunein just fine. Also I had to use an American zipcode for weather but 
> that's no problem. If you ask Alexa for weather conditions in, say 
> Winnipeg where I'm from, she'll tell you what it's like here. Anyway, 
> there are a bunch of articles and Youtube videos that show that you can 
> use Alexa outside the US, you just gotta search for them.
> 
> Shawn
> Sent From My White MacBook
> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
> 
>> On Apr 23, 2017, at 8:29 AM, Krister Ekstrom  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> That was what i was about to write a couple mails ago, many of 
>> those digital assistants have no or limited functionality outside 
>> the US. I’m not certain that even Google or Siri for that matter 
>> works at their fullest here in Sweden and then let’s not even 
>> begin to talk Samsungs new Bixby. I wonder when or rather if it 
>> will ever reach these cold is it latitudes?:-) /Krister
>> 
>>> 23 apr. 2017 kl. 14:18 skrev David Chittenden :
>>> 
>>> Step outside the US, and Alexa falls apart. Unlike Siri and Google, 
>>> Alexa does not support anything outside it's limited geographical area. 
>>> This is why it is able to be so much better there, it is limited in 
>>> scope.
>>> 
>>> Kind regards,
>>> 
>>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>>> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On 23/04/2017, at 20:50, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
 
 Yes. Just search for Reverb for Amazon Alexa.
 
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On Apr 23, 2017, at 5:44 AM, Simon Fogarty  
> wrote:
> 
> So Sean,
> 
> This amazon alexa is available through an app for my iPhone?
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: 

Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[David Chittenden]

Well, I was unaware of how to start VoiceView independently. It is good to know 
that one can do so without needing to initially set up in settings.

Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +61 488 988 936
Sent from my iPhone

> On 25/04/2017, at 12:31, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> So if the fire stick needs sighted assistance to enable accessibility then is 
> the fire tv any better for accessibility and which one is better between the 
> fire stick and fire tv?
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David Chittenden
> Sent: Tuesday, 25 April 2017 10:44 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital 
> assistant game
> 
> I set up NetFlix myself.
> 
> My partner had to go into settings and turn VoiceAssist on for the FireStick.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 24/04/2017, at 21:12, Ryan Mann  wrote:
>> 
>> Could you set up Netflix yourself or did your partner have to set it up?  
>> What about other settings such as the WIFI network?  I live alone, so if I 
>> was to get a Fire Stick, I would need to be able to set it up.
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Apr 24, 2017, at 6:10 AM, Scott Granados  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I believe there is an accessibility solution for COdi now.  Something 
>>> that’s come out with in the last few weeks.  THere’s been mention of it on 
>>> the android list although I don’t have specifics at hand.  You. Might 
>>> google for a solution as I think one has recently been released.
>>> 
 On Apr 23, 2017, at 4:45 PM, David Chittenden  
 wrote:
 
 I have, and use, an Amazon Fire Stick. In Australia and NZ, it is not 
 possible to check the local weather.
 
 That said, Fire Stick works very well with NetFlicks. Like Apple TV, we 
 have it set to always play Audio Description when available. We prefer 
 Fire Stick over Apple TV, especially because of Codi, a way to watch any 
 show and get around geo restrictions. Unfortunately, it is not speech 
 accessible, so my partner is the only one in this household who can run it.
 
 Kind regards,
 
 David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
 Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
 Mobile: +61 488 988 936
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On 24/04/2017, at 06:32, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
> 
> Hi David and Krister. I just purchased an Amazon Echo Dot a few weeks ago 
> and Alexa works perfectly. I can listen to my favorite iHeartRadio 
> stations and Pandora just fine. Granted I used a VPN to create accounts 
> for both services but even if I didn't have them because they don't work 
> in Canada and if I didn't have a VPN, I could still probably listen to 
> Tunein just fine. Also I had to use an American zipcode for weather but 
> that's no problem. If you ask Alexa for weather conditions in, say 
> Winnipeg where I'm from, she'll tell you what it's like here. Anyway, 
> there are a bunch of articles and Youtube videos that show that you can 
> use Alexa outside the US, you just gotta search for them.
> 
> Shawn
> Sent From My White MacBook
> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
> 
>> On Apr 23, 2017, at 8:29 AM, Krister Ekstrom  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> That was what i was about to write a couple mails ago, many of 
>> those digital assistants have no or limited functionality outside 
>> the US. I’m not certain that even Google or Siri for that matter 
>> works at their fullest here in Sweden and then let’s not even 
>> begin to talk Samsungs new Bixby. I wonder when or rather if it 
>> will ever reach these cold is it latitudes?:-) /Krister
>> 
>>> 23 apr. 2017 kl. 14:18 skrev David Chittenden :
>>> 
>>> Step outside the US, and Alexa falls apart. Unlike Siri and Google, 
>>> Alexa does not support anything outside it's limited geographical area. 
>>> This is why it is able to be so much better there, it is limited in 
>>> scope.
>>> 
>>> Kind regards,
>>> 
>>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>>> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On 23/04/2017, at 20:50, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
 
 Yes. Just search for Reverb for Amazon Alexa.
 
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On Apr 23, 2017, at 5:44 AM, Simon Fogarty  
> wrote:

Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[David Chittenden]

In The US, Amazon FireStick works on par with Apple TV, and is about $100 USD 
less expensive. It only has 8 GB onboard memory for apps. It has a good talking 
(you talk to it) interface. The text to speech side is not as robust as Apple. 
For the money, we find it worth it. We only use the Apple TV now if we need to 
AirPlay from the iOS device (iPhone or iPad). As our Sonos is connected to the 
digital audio out jack of the Samsung TV, and the latest Samsung TV has decent 
speech, and the Firestick has decent speech, we use it daily. I think we used 
the Apple TV about two months ago.

That said, we use Siri on our Apple devices significantly more often than Alexa 
on the FireStick because all information from Alexa is US specific.

Oh, another benefit of FireStick is the Android nature, we can load apps which 
are not approved by the Amazon app store (Codi, for example).

Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +61 488 988 936
Sent from my iPhone

> On 25/04/2017, at 12:12, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> SO these fire tv have good accessibility for screen reader users?
> 
> Why would I want a fire tv over an apple tv if I was making a choice?
> 
> I didn't find the chrome cast 2 much of a benefit and my apple tv works great 
> for me other than the lack of usefull apps.
> 
> I'd like sonos available on my apple tv but it's not.
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
> Sent: Tuesday, 25 April 2017 2:49 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital 
> assistant game
> 
> The Fire TV has a better remote, better WiFi interface, faster processor, and 
> a lot more snap to the interface from a user of TTS perspective.  I’m also 
> not sure if the stick provides 4K video, the Fire TV does.  Both are good 
> products don’t get me wrong I’m just a bigger fan of the Fire TV itself and 
> use it more.
>Yes, Netflix and Hulu and the others have very good accessibility now 
> including the sign in process.  The registering with providers for content 
> like CBS and such is also more accessible on the Fire TV than Apple TV 
> lately.  I think the cost between Fire TV and Apple TV is comparable, about 
> twice the stick.
> 
> Devices aside on the amazon side, I think the content on Amazon is far better 
> than Apple.  Sure you have iTunes on the Apple and can buy a lot of good 
> content but that prime subscription sure includes a lot of top shelf stuff.  
> Amazon also has a clever way of releasing pilots and new content.  What would 
> have been ideal is if Amazon had made an app for Apple TV to stream prime 
> content but we know the politics there.  As far as I know that’s not likely 
> but this may have changed I’m not sure.  I like the button style of the 
> amazon remote better than the Apple touch remote as well but that’s a 
> personal preference thing, others probably disagree with me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Apr 24, 2017, at 10:21 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Scott,
>> I don't see the use case for a blind person with a Fire TV versus the stick. 
>> I have a stick, the newer generation. It seems quite responsive. Admittedly, 
>> I don't have the Fire TV to compare it with. But I just don't see the point, 
>> unless money is no object and you don't mind spending more. Also, it's worth 
>> noting with respect to the stick and the AppleTV, that the problem both 
>> devices have is with third-party apps not being accessible. There are still 
>> bunches of those that are not accessible with a stick, just as there are on 
>> the Apple TV apps that are not accessible. When Apple change the format and 
>> went to apps, it seems to me they lost control over their excess ability. So 
>> now it's up to the app developers, and many of them screw up. Speaking of 
>> excess ability, has the Netflix sign in process finally become accessible on 
>> the fire tv or stick? I know when I signed in with mine, I had to have help 
>> from a sighted person. Not so with the Apple TV.
>> Of course, I'm sure that is on Netflix  and, not Amazons. But it does 
>> illustrate the problem. We are so dependent on third-party apps with regard 
>> to whether these devices are really useful and accessible or not.
>> Sent from my  iPhone
>> 
>>> On Apr 24, 2017, at 6:55 AM, Scott Granados  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> You would want a Fire TV in my opinion, not a fire stick.  The stick is a 
>>> bit less powered and while a good product the Fire TV is a very very good 
>>> product.  Accessibility has been continuously improved and the access to 
>>> prime video content is fantastic.  The stick has a slower processor, less 
>>> memory and is a bit different design.
>>>  The Apple TV to me is a let down, yet another thing Apple is failing at 
>>> but more specifically when it comes 

RE: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[Simon Fogarty]

So if the fire stick needs sighted assistance to enable accessibility then is 
the fire tv any better for accessibility and which one is better between the 
fire stick and fire tv?


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of David Chittenden
Sent: Tuesday, 25 April 2017 10:44 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant 
game

I set up NetFlix myself.

My partner had to go into settings and turn VoiceAssist on for the FireStick.

Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +61 488 988 936
Sent from my iPhone

> On 24/04/2017, at 21:12, Ryan Mann  wrote:
> 
> Could you set up Netflix yourself or did your partner have to set it up?  
> What about other settings such as the WIFI network?  I live alone, so if I 
> was to get a Fire Stick, I would need to be able to set it up.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 24, 2017, at 6:10 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> I believe there is an accessibility solution for COdi now.  Something that’s 
>> come out with in the last few weeks.  THere’s been mention of it on the 
>> android list although I don’t have specifics at hand.  You. Might google for 
>> a solution as I think one has recently been released.
>> 
>>> On Apr 23, 2017, at 4:45 PM, David Chittenden  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I have, and use, an Amazon Fire Stick. In Australia and NZ, it is not 
>>> possible to check the local weather.
>>> 
>>> That said, Fire Stick works very well with NetFlicks. Like Apple TV, we 
>>> have it set to always play Audio Description when available. We prefer Fire 
>>> Stick over Apple TV, especially because of Codi, a way to watch any show 
>>> and get around geo restrictions. Unfortunately, it is not speech 
>>> accessible, so my partner is the only one in this household who can run it.
>>> 
>>> Kind regards,
>>> 
>>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>>> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On 24/04/2017, at 06:32, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
 
 Hi David and Krister. I just purchased an Amazon Echo Dot a few weeks ago 
 and Alexa works perfectly. I can listen to my favorite iHeartRadio 
 stations and Pandora just fine. Granted I used a VPN to create accounts 
 for both services but even if I didn't have them because they don't work 
 in Canada and if I didn't have a VPN, I could still probably listen to 
 Tunein just fine. Also I had to use an American zipcode for weather but 
 that's no problem. If you ask Alexa for weather conditions in, say 
 Winnipeg where I'm from, she'll tell you what it's like here. Anyway, 
 there are a bunch of articles and Youtube videos that show that you can 
 use Alexa outside the US, you just gotta search for them.
 
 Shawn
 Sent From My White MacBook
 Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
 Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
 Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
 Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
 
> On Apr 23, 2017, at 8:29 AM, Krister Ekstrom  
> wrote:
> 
> That was what i was about to write a couple mails ago, many of 
> those digital assistants have no or limited functionality outside 
> the US. I’m not certain that even Google or Siri for that matter 
> works at their fullest here in Sweden and then let’s not even 
> begin to talk Samsungs new Bixby. I wonder when or rather if it 
> will ever reach these cold is it latitudes?:-) /Krister
> 
>> 23 apr. 2017 kl. 14:18 skrev David Chittenden :
>> 
>> Step outside the US, and Alexa falls apart. Unlike Siri and Google, 
>> Alexa does not support anything outside it's limited geographical area. 
>> This is why it is able to be so much better there, it is limited in 
>> scope.
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> 
>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 23/04/2017, at 20:50, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Yes. Just search for Reverb for Amazon Alexa.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Apr 23, 2017, at 5:44 AM, Simon Fogarty  
 wrote:
 
 So Sean,
 
 This amazon alexa is available through an app for my iPhone?
 
 -Original Message-
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Shawn 
 Krasniuk
 Sent: Sunday, 23 April 2017 9:47 PM
 To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
 
 Subject: Re: And here's an example of why Apple is 

RE: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[Simon Fogarty]

Hi Scott,

 I don't either live in a vacume of blind users 
But again 4K is so new here in NZ that most users wouldn't know the difference 
between 4k out put and the previous screen output of my 32inch Samsung LED tv.

 

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Scott Granados
Sent: Tuesday, 25 April 2017 3:40 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant 
game

Well, as I don’t live in a vacuum of blind only users 4K is important.  We also 
tend to record a lot of 4K content around here so it’s nice to have the 
playback option.

I’ve got a stick as well on the non 4K TV and you’re right it is pretty good.  
The size especially makes it nice and it’s great to bring with you if you’re 
traveling.

I think my major motivation for going with the Fire TV was the Fire TV was 
announced as accessible first so when I started ordering them the stick wasn’t 
an option yet.  You get used to what you use you know how that goes.


> On Apr 24, 2017, at 11:17 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> I don't know if the stick has 4K or not. I doubt it. As a blind person, I 
> don't care. As for the snappiness, obviously since I don't have a Fire TV, I 
> cannot compare it with the stick. But I'm pretty satisfied with the 
> snappiness of the stick. Says the TV doesn't give me any more access than the 
> stick, I couldn't see spending extra money. To each their own obviously.
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 24, 2017, at 7:49 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> The Fire TV has a better remote, better WiFi interface, faster processor, 
>> and a lot more snap to the interface from a user of TTS perspective.  I’m 
>> also not sure if the stick provides 4K video, the Fire TV does.  Both are 
>> good products don’t get me wrong I’m just a bigger fan of the Fire TV itself 
>> and use it more.
>>   Yes, Netflix and Hulu and the others have very good accessibility now 
>> including the sign in process.  The registering with providers for content 
>> like CBS and such is also more accessible on the Fire TV than Apple TV 
>> lately.  I think the cost between Fire TV and Apple TV is comparable, about 
>> twice the stick.
>> 
>> Devices aside on the amazon side, I think the content on Amazon is far 
>> better than Apple.  Sure you have iTunes on the Apple and can buy a lot of 
>> good content but that prime subscription sure includes a lot of top shelf 
>> stuff.  Amazon also has a clever way of releasing pilots and new content.  
>> What would have been ideal is if Amazon had made an app for Apple TV to 
>> stream prime content but we know the politics there.  As far as I know 
>> that’s not likely but this may have changed I’m not sure.  I like the button 
>> style of the amazon remote better than the Apple touch remote as well but 
>> that’s a personal preference thing, others probably disagree with me.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Apr 24, 2017, at 10:21 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Scott,
>>> I don't see the use case for a blind person with a Fire TV versus the 
>>> stick. I have a stick, the newer generation. It seems quite responsive. 
>>> Admittedly, I don't have the Fire TV to compare it with. But I just don't 
>>> see the point, unless money is no object and you don't mind spending more. 
>>> Also, it's worth noting with respect to the stick and the AppleTV, that the 
>>> problem both devices have is with third-party apps not being accessible. 
>>> There are still bunches of those that are not accessible with a stick, just 
>>> as there are on the Apple TV apps that are not accessible. When Apple 
>>> change the format and went to apps, it seems to me they lost control over 
>>> their excess ability. So now it's up to the app developers, and many of 
>>> them screw up. Speaking of excess ability, has the Netflix sign in process 
>>> finally become accessible on the fire tv or stick? I know when I signed in 
>>> with mine, I had to have help from a sighted person. Not so with the Apple 
>>> TV.
>>> Of course, I'm sure that is on Netflix  and, not Amazons. But it does 
>>> illustrate the problem. We are so dependent on third-party apps with regard 
>>> to whether these devices are really useful and accessible or not.
>>> Sent from my  iPhone
>>> 
 On Apr 24, 2017, at 6:55 AM, Scott Granados  
 wrote:
 
 You would want a Fire TV in my opinion, not a fire stick.  The stick is a 
 bit less powered and while a good product the Fire TV is a very very good 
 product.  Accessibility has been continuously improved and the access to 
 prime video content is fantastic.  The stick has a slower processor, less 
 memory and is a bit different design.
 The Apple TV to me is a let down, yet another thing Apple is failing at 
 but more specifically when it 

RE: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[Simon Fogarty]

SO these fire tv have good accessibility for screen reader users?

 Why would I want a fire tv over an apple tv if I was making a choice?

 I didn't find the chrome cast 2 much of a benefit and my apple tv works great 
for me other than the lack of usefull apps.

 I'd like sonos available on my apple tv but it's not.
-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Scott Granados
Sent: Tuesday, 25 April 2017 2:49 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant 
game

The Fire TV has a better remote, better WiFi interface, faster processor, and a 
lot more snap to the interface from a user of TTS perspective.  I’m also not 
sure if the stick provides 4K video, the Fire TV does.  Both are good products 
don’t get me wrong I’m just a bigger fan of the Fire TV itself and use it more.
Yes, Netflix and Hulu and the others have very good accessibility now 
including the sign in process.  The registering with providers for content like 
CBS and such is also more accessible on the Fire TV than Apple TV lately.  I 
think the cost between Fire TV and Apple TV is comparable, about twice the 
stick.

Devices aside on the amazon side, I think the content on Amazon is far better 
than Apple.  Sure you have iTunes on the Apple and can buy a lot of good 
content but that prime subscription sure includes a lot of top shelf stuff.  
Amazon also has a clever way of releasing pilots and new content.  What would 
have been ideal is if Amazon had made an app for Apple TV to stream prime 
content but we know the politics there.  As far as I know that’s not likely but 
this may have changed I’m not sure.  I like the button style of the amazon 
remote better than the Apple touch remote as well but that’s a personal 
preference thing, others probably disagree with me.




> On Apr 24, 2017, at 10:21 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> Hi Scott,
> I don't see the use case for a blind person with a Fire TV versus the stick. 
> I have a stick, the newer generation. It seems quite responsive. Admittedly, 
> I don't have the Fire TV to compare it with. But I just don't see the point, 
> unless money is no object and you don't mind spending more. Also, it's worth 
> noting with respect to the stick and the AppleTV, that the problem both 
> devices have is with third-party apps not being accessible. There are still 
> bunches of those that are not accessible with a stick, just as there are on 
> the Apple TV apps that are not accessible. When Apple change the format and 
> went to apps, it seems to me they lost control over their excess ability. So 
> now it's up to the app developers, and many of them screw up. Speaking of 
> excess ability, has the Netflix sign in process finally become accessible on 
> the fire tv or stick? I know when I signed in with mine, I had to have help 
> from a sighted person. Not so with the Apple TV.
> Of course, I'm sure that is on Netflix  and, not Amazons. But it does 
> illustrate the problem. We are so dependent on third-party apps with regard 
> to whether these devices are really useful and accessible or not.
> Sent from my  iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 24, 2017, at 6:55 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> You would want a Fire TV in my opinion, not a fire stick.  The stick is a 
>> bit less powered and while a good product the Fire TV is a very very good 
>> product.  Accessibility has been continuously improved and the access to 
>> prime video content is fantastic.  The stick has a slower processor, less 
>> memory and is a bit different design.
>>   The Apple TV to me is a let down, yet another thing Apple is failing at 
>> but more specifically when it comes to accessibility.  The product is OK but 
>> it’s getting less and less accessible as time passes.
>> 
>>> On Apr 24, 2017, at 8:49 AM, Jessica Moss  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Oh cool, how exactly does the firestick differ from the Apple Tv, other 
>>> than it’s way less moneywise, and is a USB stick?
 On Apr 24, 2017, at 12:02 AM, David Chittenden  
 wrote:
 
 Yes, these devices have parental control settings.
 
 Kind regards,
 
 David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
 Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
 Mobile: +61 488 988 936
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On 24/04/2017, at 10:42, Jessica Moss  wrote:
> 
> Ok, probably a stupid question, but is there a way with those, to filter 
> out what content you don’t want to view, perfect example, R-rated movies 
> you obviously wouldn’t want your kids looking at?  Mom and I have been 
> looking at ditching DirectTv, which is expensive as ever, and we either 
> don’t watch half the stuff it comes with, or don’t get the other half, 
> and she wants a fire stick, and on my end, it’s somewhat been a debate 

RE: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[Simon Fogarty]

If you set fire to your tv wouldn't that be a waste of the tv?

Is a fire stick otherwise known as a match?



-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Scott Granados
Sent: Tuesday, 25 April 2017 1:56 AM
To: MacVisionaries 'Chris Blouch' via 
Subject: Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant 
game

You would want a Fire TV in my opinion, not a fire stick.  The stick is a bit 
less powered and while a good product the Fire TV is a very very good product.  
Accessibility has been continuously improved and the access to prime video 
content is fantastic.  The stick has a slower processor, less memory and is a 
bit different design.
The Apple TV to me is a let down, yet another thing Apple is failing at 
but more specifically when it comes to accessibility.  The product is OK but 
it’s getting less and less accessible as time passes.

> On Apr 24, 2017, at 8:49 AM, Jessica Moss  wrote:
> 
> Oh cool, how exactly does the firestick differ from the Apple Tv, other than 
> it’s way less moneywise, and is a USB stick?
>> On Apr 24, 2017, at 12:02 AM, David Chittenden  wrote:
>> 
>> Yes, these devices have parental control settings.
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> 
>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 24/04/2017, at 10:42, Jessica Moss  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Ok, probably a stupid question, but is there a way with those, to filter 
>>> out what content you don’t want to view, perfect example, R-rated movies 
>>> you obviously wouldn’t want your kids looking at?  Mom and I have been 
>>> looking at ditching DirectTv, which is expensive as ever, and we either 
>>> don’t watch half the stuff it comes with, or don’t get the other half, and 
>>> she wants a fire stick, and on my end, it’s somewhat been a debate between 
>>> an apple tv or a fire stick.
 On Apr 23, 2017, at 4:45 PM, David Chittenden  
 wrote:
 
 I have, and use, an Amazon Fire Stick. In Australia and NZ, it is not 
 possible to check the local weather.
 
 That said, Fire Stick works very well with NetFlicks. Like Apple TV, we 
 have it set to always play Audio Description when available. We prefer 
 Fire Stick over Apple TV, especially because of Codi, a way to watch any 
 show and get around geo restrictions. Unfortunately, it is not speech 
 accessible, so my partner is the only one in this household who can run it.
 
 Kind regards,
 
 David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
 Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
 Mobile: +61 488 988 936
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On 24/04/2017, at 06:32, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
> 
> Hi David and Krister. I just purchased an Amazon Echo Dot a few weeks ago 
> and Alexa works perfectly. I can listen to my favorite iHeartRadio 
> stations and Pandora just fine. Granted I used a VPN to create accounts 
> for both services but even if I didn't have them because they don't work 
> in Canada and if I didn't have a VPN, I could still probably listen to 
> Tunein just fine. Also I had to use an American zipcode for weather but 
> that's no problem. If you ask Alexa for weather conditions in, say 
> Winnipeg where I'm from, she'll tell you what it's like here. Anyway, 
> there are a bunch of articles and Youtube videos that show that you can 
> use Alexa outside the US, you just gotta search for them.
> 
> Shawn
> Sent From My White MacBook
> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
> 
>> On Apr 23, 2017, at 8:29 AM, Krister Ekstrom  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> That was what i was about to write a couple mails ago, many of 
>> those digital assistants have no or limited functionality outside 
>> the US. I’m not certain that even Google or Siri for that matter 
>> works at their fullest here in Sweden and then let’s not even 
>> begin to talk Samsungs new Bixby. I wonder when or rather if it 
>> will ever reach these cold is it latitudes?:-) /Krister
>> 
>>> 23 apr. 2017 kl. 14:18 skrev David Chittenden :
>>> 
>>> Step outside the US, and Alexa falls apart. Unlike Siri and Google, 
>>> Alexa does not support anything outside it's limited geographical area. 
>>> This is why it is able to be so much better there, it is limited in 
>>> scope.
>>> 
>>> Kind regards,
>>> 
>>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>>> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On 23/04/2017, at 20:50, Shawn Krasniuk 

Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[David Chittenden]

I set up NetFlix myself.

My partner had to go into settings and turn VoiceAssist on for the FireStick.

Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +61 488 988 936
Sent from my iPhone

> On 24/04/2017, at 21:12, Ryan Mann  wrote:
> 
> Could you set up Netflix yourself or did your partner have to set it up?  
> What about other settings such as the WIFI network?  I live alone, so if I 
> was to get a Fire Stick, I would need to be able to set it up.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 24, 2017, at 6:10 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> I believe there is an accessibility solution for COdi now.  Something that’s 
>> come out with in the last few weeks.  THere’s been mention of it on the 
>> android list although I don’t have specifics at hand.  You. Might google for 
>> a solution as I think one has recently been released.
>> 
>>> On Apr 23, 2017, at 4:45 PM, David Chittenden  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I have, and use, an Amazon Fire Stick. In Australia and NZ, it is not 
>>> possible to check the local weather.
>>> 
>>> That said, Fire Stick works very well with NetFlicks. Like Apple TV, we 
>>> have it set to always play Audio Description when available. We prefer Fire 
>>> Stick over Apple TV, especially because of Codi, a way to watch any show 
>>> and get around geo restrictions. Unfortunately, it is not speech 
>>> accessible, so my partner is the only one in this household who can run it.
>>> 
>>> Kind regards,
>>> 
>>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>>> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On 24/04/2017, at 06:32, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
 
 Hi David and Krister. I just purchased an Amazon Echo Dot a few weeks ago 
 and Alexa works perfectly. I can listen to my favorite iHeartRadio 
 stations and Pandora just fine. Granted I used a VPN to create accounts 
 for both services but even if I didn't have them because they don't work 
 in Canada and if I didn't have a VPN, I could still probably listen to 
 Tunein just fine. Also I had to use an American zipcode for weather but 
 that's no problem. If you ask Alexa for weather conditions in, say 
 Winnipeg where I'm from, she'll tell you what it's like here. Anyway, 
 there are a bunch of articles and Youtube videos that show that you can 
 use Alexa outside the US, you just gotta search for them.
 
 Shawn
 Sent From My White MacBook
 Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
 Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
 Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
 Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
 
> On Apr 23, 2017, at 8:29 AM, Krister Ekstrom  
> wrote:
> 
> That was what i was about to write a couple mails ago, many of those 
> digital assistants have no or limited functionality outside the US. I’m 
> not certain that even Google or Siri for that matter works at their 
> fullest here in Sweden and then let’s not even begin to talk Samsungs new 
> Bixby. I wonder when or rather if it will ever reach these cold is it 
> latitudes?:-)
> /Krister
> 
>> 23 apr. 2017 kl. 14:18 skrev David Chittenden :
>> 
>> Step outside the US, and Alexa falls apart. Unlike Siri and Google, 
>> Alexa does not support anything outside it's limited geographical area. 
>> This is why it is able to be so much better there, it is limited in 
>> scope.
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> 
>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 23/04/2017, at 20:50, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Yes. Just search for Reverb for Amazon Alexa.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Apr 23, 2017, at 5:44 AM, Simon Fogarty  
 wrote:
 
 So Sean,
 
 This amazon alexa is available through an app for my iPhone?
 
 -Original Message-
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Shawn Krasniuk
 Sent: Sunday, 23 April 2017 9:47 PM
 To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
 Subject: Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital 
 assistant game
 
 Hi Scott. I'm not Yuma but I can tell you who I think is the better 
 AI. After watching demos of the two of them, Alexa still wins hands 
 down. Sure, with Google Now, when you ask it questions, you can ask 
 subsequent questions about the topic you started with it. Alexa has a 
 hard time with that, but she has more smart devices she can connect to 
 than Google. On a video I saw, you can 

Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[Yuma Decaux]

Hey Scott,

Agreed, this is not a place to discuss about these things.

I'll shout you a mail




> On 25/04/2017, at 3:47 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> Well, we’ve probably strayed off topic for the list but I find what you’re 
> talking about absolutely compelling.  I can see where you might apply your 
> calculations to large complex data analysis like environmental modeling for 
> example or looking for chaotic patterns.  The thing that interests me about 
> quantum computing is the non locality effects and the ability to attack 
> problems from a multiverse perspective trying all possible computations and 
> all probabilities in a single quantum event.  But now you’re pressing the 
> edges of my understanding firmly so you’re probably much more versed in these 
> things than I am.  Your basically talking long range about turning 
> predictions and future telling from guesses to almost certainties among other 
> seriously fundamentally changing capabilities.
>   Robotics is another area I’m interested in.  As you may know I 
> experiment in a small way with autonomous flight right now using quadcopter 
> platforms as a base.  Combining these with LIDAR, SONAR and machine vision to 
> study and self navigate from one GPS point to another.  I’m to the point 
> where I can fly around a school yard and navigate through areas like the 
> playground and batting cages.;). (Big thank you to the folks at Milberry 
> Street School)
> 
> Feel free and contact me off list and or we can exchange messenger / 
> communication IDs of your choice.
> 
> Thanks for the food for thought!
> 
> Scott
> 
> 
>> On Apr 24, 2017, at 1:32 PM, Yuma Decaux  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Scott,
>> 
>> I think the cutting edge is in applications that affect the world, not those 
>> that affect pure data itself. The normal classifiers as you say are:
>> -sensory (vision, touch, localised temperature, pressure, captured 
>> environmentals)
>> -model or data model, where all your data and features are. The contexts and 
>> semantics trees, the pixels that make the vision understand edges and 
>> contours, rates of them, velocity of movements and recalls. It's a massive 
>> power set of matrices that work with each other through GPU and node 
>> servers..
>> -Action: This is where your logic space makes decisions, depending on the 
>> controls used on them, such as understanding what distribution of a certain 
>> value is across the entire feature set. Is it obviously and unconditionally 
>> true, meaning constant, or is it variable like a range between -1 and 1? And 
>> how many of them, in the aggregate, agree to that decision? one of the 
>> algorithms for this one is Support Vector Machines.
>> 
>> It's more of a composition rather than a specific service, that creates that 
>> service or A.I powered algorithm that makes it work so well.
>> 
>> The absolute cutting edge of robotics to my view, is quantum computing. To 
>> be able to collapse and re-assign decisions into stacks of information that 
>> can be simultaneously calculated in a constant time of 1 per global pulse by 
>> randomisation assignments which are structured, is what will flip everything 
>> up, and quantum computing will stop the industry from postponing the 
>> inventions which are out there, not funded but worked on, with associations 
>> and organisations.
>> 
>> I would be happy to exchange FBs so I can send you some robotics articles 
>> and twitter is _oseyeris. I'd like you to be an initial beta tester for 
>> something I've worked on for a year. It has a 3D audio engine and is easy to 
>> use for OSX and IOS. It's called TheTakeOut.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> 
>>> On 23/04/2017, at 6:19 PM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Wow there’s a lot of great points here.
>>> 
>>> I’m curious, as someone who’s heavily involved in AI who do you think is 
>>> the absolute cutting edge right now outside the classified space.  Maybe 
>>> you could rank a little the major publicly visible efforts like Watson 
>>> verses Google verses Amazon and such.  Who makes you think wow that’s 
>>> really impressive?  We know Apple in many ways is behind the times but 
>>> who’s way ahead?
>>> 
>>> Also, do you have any published papers or anything I could read of your 
>>> work you’ve impressed me with your response and I’d like to learn more 
>>> about where you’re coming from.
>>> 
>>> Thanks
>>> Scott
>>> 
>>> 
 On Apr 23, 2017, at 3:54 AM, Yuma Decaux  wrote:
 
 I wanted to chime in for a few points:
 
 Apple is dispersing itself a bit too much. What's next on the line? A 
 Lavazza partnership for a coffee machine? Or maybe some jogging shoes with 
 mag safe laces? Better yet, a Mars lander capsule with an enhanced version 
 of voice over? Wait, the latter is something they should aim for, shoot to 
 mars projects, not attempts at capturing consumer markets outside 

Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[Scott Granados]

Well, we’ve probably strayed off topic for the list but I find what you’re 
talking about absolutely compelling.  I can see where you might apply your 
calculations to large complex data analysis like environmental modeling for 
example or looking for chaotic patterns.  The thing that interests me about 
quantum computing is the non locality effects and the ability to attack 
problems from a multiverse perspective trying all possible computations and all 
probabilities in a single quantum event.  But now you’re pressing the edges of 
my understanding firmly so you’re probably much more versed in these things 
than I am.  Your basically talking long range about turning predictions and 
future telling from guesses to almost certainties among other seriously 
fundamentally changing capabilities.
Robotics is another area I’m interested in.  As you may know I 
experiment in a small way with autonomous flight right now using quadcopter 
platforms as a base.  Combining these with LIDAR, SONAR and machine vision to 
study and self navigate from one GPS point to another.  I’m to the point where 
I can fly around a school yard and navigate through areas like the playground 
and batting cages.;). (Big thank you to the folks at Milberry Street School)

Feel free and contact me off list and or we can exchange messenger / 
communication IDs of your choice.

Thanks for the food for thought!

Scott


> On Apr 24, 2017, at 1:32 PM, Yuma Decaux  wrote:
> 
> Hi Scott,
> 
> I think the cutting edge is in applications that affect the world, not those 
> that affect pure data itself. The normal classifiers as you say are:
> -sensory (vision, touch, localised temperature, pressure, captured 
> environmentals)
> -model or data model, where all your data and features are. The contexts and 
> semantics trees, the pixels that make the vision understand edges and 
> contours, rates of them, velocity of movements and recalls. It's a massive 
> power set of matrices that work with each other through GPU and node servers..
> -Action: This is where your logic space makes decisions, depending on the 
> controls used on them, such as understanding what distribution of a certain 
> value is across the entire feature set. Is it obviously and unconditionally 
> true, meaning constant, or is it variable like a range between -1 and 1? And 
> how many of them, in the aggregate, agree to that decision? one of the 
> algorithms for this one is Support Vector Machines.
> 
> It's more of a composition rather than a specific service, that creates that 
> service or A.I powered algorithm that makes it work so well.
> 
> The absolute cutting edge of robotics to my view, is quantum computing. To be 
> able to collapse and re-assign decisions into stacks of information that can 
> be simultaneously calculated in a constant time of 1 per global pulse by 
> randomisation assignments which are structured, is what will flip everything 
> up, and quantum computing will stop the industry from postponing the 
> inventions which are out there, not funded but worked on, with associations 
> and organisations.
> 
> I would be happy to exchange FBs so I can send you some robotics articles and 
> twitter is _oseyeris. I'd like you to be an initial beta tester for something 
> I've worked on for a year. It has a 3D audio engine and is easy to use for 
> OSX and IOS. It's called TheTakeOut.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> 
>> On 23/04/2017, at 6:19 PM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> Wow there’s a lot of great points here.
>> 
>> I’m curious, as someone who’s heavily involved in AI who do you think is the 
>> absolute cutting edge right now outside the classified space.  Maybe you 
>> could rank a little the major publicly visible efforts like Watson verses 
>> Google verses Amazon and such.  Who makes you think wow that’s really 
>> impressive?  We know Apple in many ways is behind the times but who’s way 
>> ahead?
>> 
>> Also, do you have any published papers or anything I could read of your work 
>> you’ve impressed me with your response and I’d like to learn more about 
>> where you’re coming from.
>> 
>> Thanks
>> Scott
>> 
>> 
>>> On Apr 23, 2017, at 3:54 AM, Yuma Decaux  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I wanted to chime in for a few points:
>>> 
>>> Apple is dispersing itself a bit too much. What's next on the line? A 
>>> Lavazza partnership for a coffee machine? Or maybe some jogging shoes with 
>>> mag safe laces? Better yet, a Mars lander capsule with an enhanced version 
>>> of voice over? Wait, the latter is something they should aim for, shoot to 
>>> mars projects, not attempts at capturing consumer markets outside of what 
>>> they do best.
>>> 
>>> In terms of the A.I, as a daily A.I programmer, I'm not impressed at all. 
>>> Why does siri forget a name I call all the time when it worked until then? 
>>> What is the use of asking me the same thing all the time, when siri should 
>>> know that I know the 

Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[Yuma Decaux]

Hi Scott,

I think the cutting edge is in applications that affect the world, not those 
that affect pure data itself. The normal classifiers as you say are:
-sensory (vision, touch, localised temperature, pressure, captured 
environmentals)
-model or data model, where all your data and features are. The contexts and 
semantics trees, the pixels that make the vision understand edges and contours, 
rates of them, velocity of movements and recalls. It's a massive power set of 
matrices that work with each other through GPU and node servers..
-Action: This is where your logic space makes decisions, depending on the 
controls used on them, such as understanding what distribution of a certain 
value is across the entire feature set. Is it obviously and unconditionally 
true, meaning constant, or is it variable like a range between -1 and 1? And 
how many of them, in the aggregate, agree to that decision? one of the 
algorithms for this one is Support Vector Machines.

It's more of a composition rather than a specific service, that creates that 
service or A.I powered algorithm that makes it work so well.

The absolute cutting edge of robotics to my view, is quantum computing. To be 
able to collapse and re-assign decisions into stacks of information that can be 
simultaneously calculated in a constant time of 1 per global pulse by 
randomisation assignments which are structured, is what will flip everything 
up, and quantum computing will stop the industry from postponing the inventions 
which are out there, not funded but worked on, with associations and 
organisations. 

I would be happy to exchange FBs so I can send you some robotics articles and 
twitter is _oseyeris. I'd like you to be an initial beta tester for something 
I've worked on for a year. It has a 3D audio engine and is easy to use for OSX 
and IOS. It's called TheTakeOut.

Cheers,


> On 23/04/2017, at 6:19 PM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> Wow there’s a lot of great points here.
> 
> I’m curious, as someone who’s heavily involved in AI who do you think is the 
> absolute cutting edge right now outside the classified space.  Maybe you 
> could rank a little the major publicly visible efforts like Watson verses 
> Google verses Amazon and such.  Who makes you think wow that’s really 
> impressive?  We know Apple in many ways is behind the times but who’s way 
> ahead?
> 
> Also, do you have any published papers or anything I could read of your work 
> you’ve impressed me with your response and I’d like to learn more about where 
> you’re coming from.
> 
> Thanks
> Scott
> 
> 
>> On Apr 23, 2017, at 3:54 AM, Yuma Decaux  wrote:
>> 
>> I wanted to chime in for a few points:
>> 
>> Apple is dispersing itself a bit too much. What's next on the line? A 
>> Lavazza partnership for a coffee machine? Or maybe some jogging shoes with 
>> mag safe laces? Better yet, a Mars lander capsule with an enhanced version 
>> of voice over? Wait, the latter is something they should aim for, shoot to 
>> mars projects, not attempts at capturing consumer markets outside of what 
>> they do best.
>> 
>> In terms of the A.I, as a daily A.I programmer, I'm not impressed at all. 
>> Why does siri forget a name I call all the time when it worked until then? 
>> What is the use of asking me the same thing all the time, when siri should 
>> know that I know the command better and faster than it can respond? And what 
>> about putting some of the phrases together, and assist in performance driven 
>> ways, which is the one major reason why I would like an assistant as a blind 
>> user? Wait, this bleeds into all users anyway, and google now + alexia are 
>> taking cloud based and data centric approaches way higher. To be fair, 
>> Apple's frameworks are increasingly better, and the sheer breadth of things 
>> you can do with their libraries is the model they have taken, to create an 
>> eco system where the user can become one of the earners, and participate in 
>> Apple's success, for some, along with their own. And taking 30% off their 
>> sales.
>> 
>> But the fact is that Apple has lost in not using the data available to them, 
>> and this comes to one thing Apple distinguishes itself from the other 
>> players: The OS and hardware setup is a help, not a listener. Entertainment, 
>> not a commodity, like the advertising model Google or FB take. And this is 
>> the crux of their problem, which is a societal question: how much are you 
>> privvy to your own circle, and how much is the public image and lifestyle? 
>> Do both agree that there are worldly matters that require engineering, and 
>> thus pro connectivity to everything? OSX connects to Linux, windows, and its 
>> programming language swift is now ported to linux. Integration with python 
>> and other languages is amazing, and it is c based. When you say Apple's 
>> interface is easy to use, it is and it accelerates as you learn your key 
>> commands.
>> 
>> But in this 

Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[Mary Otten]

I picked up an LG sound bar over the holidays which works fine. But it's not as 
good as the klipsch in terms of its actual sound quality. So, I have that sound 
bar on a small TV with my fire stick and AppleTV for. That way, he doesn't have 
to be bothered and gets to have his big sound bar which is really not useful 
for me given the problems with screen reader output from these devices through 
that sound bar. So it makes everybody happy.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 24, 2017, at 9:10 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> Interesting, you had asked me about my sound bar at one point.
> 
> It’s a Sony ht-ct-260H and it works very well with speech.  I think it’s been 
> superseded with a newer model so not sure it’s availability.  I’m using the 
> fiber out from the TV in to the fiber in on the sound bar to connect the 
> audio so it’s digital path all the way through.  I’ve heard some sound bars 
> can be dicy when it comes to reconstructing voice for accessibility.
> 
> 
>> On Apr 24, 2017, at 12:08 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>> 
>> Well, I do, because my husband, who is very definitely sighted, can't stand 
>> speech. So if I want speech, I have to have my own stuff. Although he also 
>> has a stick, not the Fire TV. Not to mention the fact that none of the 
>> speech works through the sound bar in the room where the big TV we have is 
>> located. It's all choppy, no matter if you use a Roku, and AppleTV, or a 
>> fire. It's useless on that sound bar.
>> 
>> Mary
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Apr 24, 2017, at 8:39 AM, Scott Granados  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Well, as I don’t live in a vacuum of blind only users 4K is important.  We 
>>> also tend to record a lot of 4K content around here so it’s nice to have 
>>> the playback option.
>>> 
>>> I’ve got a stick as well on the non 4K TV and you’re right it is pretty 
>>> good.  The size especially makes it nice and it’s great to bring with you 
>>> if you’re traveling.
>>> 
>>> I think my major motivation for going with the Fire TV was the Fire TV was 
>>> announced as accessible first so when I started ordering them the stick 
>>> wasn’t an option yet.  You get used to what you use you know how that goes.
>>> 
>>> 
 On Apr 24, 2017, at 11:17 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
 
 I don't know if the stick has 4K or not. I doubt it. As a blind person, I 
 don't care. As for the snappiness, obviously since I don't have a Fire TV, 
 I cannot compare it with the stick. But I'm pretty satisfied with the 
 snappiness of the stick. Says the TV doesn't give me any more access than 
 the stick, I couldn't see spending extra money. To each their own 
 obviously.
 Mary
 
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On Apr 24, 2017, at 7:49 AM, Scott Granados  
> wrote:
> 
> The Fire TV has a better remote, better WiFi interface, faster processor, 
> and a lot more snap to the interface from a user of TTS perspective.  I’m 
> also not sure if the stick provides 4K video, the Fire TV does.  Both are 
> good products don’t get me wrong I’m just a bigger fan of the Fire TV 
> itself and use it more.
> Yes, Netflix and Hulu and the others have very good accessibility now 
> including the sign in process.  The registering with providers for 
> content like CBS and such is also more accessible on the Fire TV than 
> Apple TV lately.  I think the cost between Fire TV and Apple TV is 
> comparable, about twice the stick.
> 
> Devices aside on the amazon side, I think the content on Amazon is far 
> better than Apple.  Sure you have iTunes on the Apple and can buy a lot 
> of good content but that prime subscription sure includes a lot of top 
> shelf stuff.  Amazon also has a clever way of releasing pilots and new 
> content.  What would have been ideal is if Amazon had made an app for 
> Apple TV to stream prime content but we know the politics there.  As far 
> as I know that’s not likely but this may have changed I’m not sure.  I 
> like the button style of the amazon remote better than the Apple touch 
> remote as well but that’s a personal preference thing, others probably 
> disagree with me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Apr 24, 2017, at 10:21 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Scott,
>> I don't see the use case for a blind person with a Fire TV versus the 
>> stick. I have a stick, the newer generation. It seems quite responsive. 
>> Admittedly, I don't have the Fire TV to compare it with. But I just 
>> don't see the point, unless money is no object and you don't mind 
>> spending more. Also, it's worth noting with respect to the stick and the 
>> AppleTV, that the problem both devices have is with third-party apps not 
>> being accessible. There are still bunches of 

Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[Scott Granados]

Interesting, you had asked me about my sound bar at one point.

It’s a Sony ht-ct-260H and it works very well with speech.  I think it’s been 
superseded with a newer model so not sure it’s availability.  I’m using the 
fiber out from the TV in to the fiber in on the sound bar to connect the audio 
so it’s digital path all the way through.  I’ve heard some sound bars can be 
dicy when it comes to reconstructing voice for accessibility.


> On Apr 24, 2017, at 12:08 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> Well, I do, because my husband, who is very definitely sighted, can't stand 
> speech. So if I want speech, I have to have my own stuff. Although he also 
> has a stick, not the Fire TV. Not to mention the fact that none of the speech 
> works through the sound bar in the room where the big TV we have is located. 
> It's all choppy, no matter if you use a Roku, and AppleTV, or a fire. It's 
> useless on that sound bar.
> 
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 24, 2017, at 8:39 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> Well, as I don’t live in a vacuum of blind only users 4K is important.  We 
>> also tend to record a lot of 4K content around here so it’s nice to have the 
>> playback option.
>> 
>> I’ve got a stick as well on the non 4K TV and you’re right it is pretty 
>> good.  The size especially makes it nice and it’s great to bring with you if 
>> you’re traveling.
>> 
>> I think my major motivation for going with the Fire TV was the Fire TV was 
>> announced as accessible first so when I started ordering them the stick 
>> wasn’t an option yet.  You get used to what you use you know how that goes.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Apr 24, 2017, at 11:17 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I don't know if the stick has 4K or not. I doubt it. As a blind person, I 
>>> don't care. As for the snappiness, obviously since I don't have a Fire TV, 
>>> I cannot compare it with the stick. But I'm pretty satisfied with the 
>>> snappiness of the stick. Says the TV doesn't give me any more access than 
>>> the stick, I couldn't see spending extra money. To each their own obviously.
>>> Mary
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Apr 24, 2017, at 7:49 AM, Scott Granados  
 wrote:
 
 The Fire TV has a better remote, better WiFi interface, faster processor, 
 and a lot more snap to the interface from a user of TTS perspective.  I’m 
 also not sure if the stick provides 4K video, the Fire TV does.  Both are 
 good products don’t get me wrong I’m just a bigger fan of the Fire TV 
 itself and use it more.
 Yes, Netflix and Hulu and the others have very good accessibility now 
 including the sign in process.  The registering with providers for content 
 like CBS and such is also more accessible on the Fire TV than Apple TV 
 lately.  I think the cost between Fire TV and Apple TV is comparable, 
 about twice the stick.
 
 Devices aside on the amazon side, I think the content on Amazon is far 
 better than Apple.  Sure you have iTunes on the Apple and can buy a lot of 
 good content but that prime subscription sure includes a lot of top shelf 
 stuff.  Amazon also has a clever way of releasing pilots and new content.  
 What would have been ideal is if Amazon had made an app for Apple TV to 
 stream prime content but we know the politics there.  As far as I know 
 that’s not likely but this may have changed I’m not sure.  I like the 
 button style of the amazon remote better than the Apple touch remote as 
 well but that’s a personal preference thing, others probably disagree with 
 me.
 
 
 
 
> On Apr 24, 2017, at 10:21 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> Hi Scott,
> I don't see the use case for a blind person with a Fire TV versus the 
> stick. I have a stick, the newer generation. It seems quite responsive. 
> Admittedly, I don't have the Fire TV to compare it with. But I just don't 
> see the point, unless money is no object and you don't mind spending 
> more. Also, it's worth noting with respect to the stick and the AppleTV, 
> that the problem both devices have is with third-party apps not being 
> accessible. There are still bunches of those that are not accessible with 
> a stick, just as there are on the Apple TV apps that are not accessible. 
> When Apple change the format and went to apps, it seems to me they lost 
> control over their excess ability. So now it's up to the app developers, 
> and many of them screw up. Speaking of excess ability, has the Netflix 
> sign in process finally become accessible on the fire tv or stick? I know 
> when I signed in with mine, I had to have help from a sighted person. Not 
> so with the Apple TV.
> Of course, I'm sure that is on Netflix  and, not Amazons. But it does 
> illustrate the problem. We are so 

Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[Mary Otten]

Well, I do, because my husband, who is very definitely sighted, can't stand 
speech. So if I want speech, I have to have my own stuff. Although he also has 
a stick, not the Fire TV. Not to mention the fact that none of the speech works 
through the sound bar in the room where the big TV we have is located. It's all 
choppy, no matter if you use a Roku, and AppleTV, or a fire. It's useless on 
that sound bar.

Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 24, 2017, at 8:39 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> Well, as I don’t live in a vacuum of blind only users 4K is important.  We 
> also tend to record a lot of 4K content around here so it’s nice to have the 
> playback option.
> 
> I’ve got a stick as well on the non 4K TV and you’re right it is pretty good. 
>  The size especially makes it nice and it’s great to bring with you if you’re 
> traveling.
> 
> I think my major motivation for going with the Fire TV was the Fire TV was 
> announced as accessible first so when I started ordering them the stick 
> wasn’t an option yet.  You get used to what you use you know how that goes.
> 
> 
>> On Apr 24, 2017, at 11:17 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>> 
>> I don't know if the stick has 4K or not. I doubt it. As a blind person, I 
>> don't care. As for the snappiness, obviously since I don't have a Fire TV, I 
>> cannot compare it with the stick. But I'm pretty satisfied with the 
>> snappiness of the stick. Says the TV doesn't give me any more access than 
>> the stick, I couldn't see spending extra money. To each their own obviously.
>> Mary
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Apr 24, 2017, at 7:49 AM, Scott Granados  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> The Fire TV has a better remote, better WiFi interface, faster processor, 
>>> and a lot more snap to the interface from a user of TTS perspective.  I’m 
>>> also not sure if the stick provides 4K video, the Fire TV does.  Both are 
>>> good products don’t get me wrong I’m just a bigger fan of the Fire TV 
>>> itself and use it more.
>>>  Yes, Netflix and Hulu and the others have very good accessibility now 
>>> including the sign in process.  The registering with providers for content 
>>> like CBS and such is also more accessible on the Fire TV than Apple TV 
>>> lately.  I think the cost between Fire TV and Apple TV is comparable, about 
>>> twice the stick.
>>> 
>>> Devices aside on the amazon side, I think the content on Amazon is far 
>>> better than Apple.  Sure you have iTunes on the Apple and can buy a lot of 
>>> good content but that prime subscription sure includes a lot of top shelf 
>>> stuff.  Amazon also has a clever way of releasing pilots and new content.  
>>> What would have been ideal is if Amazon had made an app for Apple TV to 
>>> stream prime content but we know the politics there.  As far as I know 
>>> that’s not likely but this may have changed I’m not sure.  I like the 
>>> button style of the amazon remote better than the Apple touch remote as 
>>> well but that’s a personal preference thing, others probably disagree with 
>>> me.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Apr 24, 2017, at 10:21 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
 
 Hi Scott,
 I don't see the use case for a blind person with a Fire TV versus the 
 stick. I have a stick, the newer generation. It seems quite responsive. 
 Admittedly, I don't have the Fire TV to compare it with. But I just don't 
 see the point, unless money is no object and you don't mind spending more. 
 Also, it's worth noting with respect to the stick and the AppleTV, that 
 the problem both devices have is with third-party apps not being 
 accessible. There are still bunches of those that are not accessible with 
 a stick, just as there are on the Apple TV apps that are not accessible. 
 When Apple change the format and went to apps, it seems to me they lost 
 control over their excess ability. So now it's up to the app developers, 
 and many of them screw up. Speaking of excess ability, has the Netflix 
 sign in process finally become accessible on the fire tv or stick? I know 
 when I signed in with mine, I had to have help from a sighted person. Not 
 so with the Apple TV.
 Of course, I'm sure that is on Netflix  and, not Amazons. But it does 
 illustrate the problem. We are so dependent on third-party apps with 
 regard to whether these devices are really useful and accessible or not.
 Sent from my  iPhone
 
> On Apr 24, 2017, at 6:55 AM, Scott Granados  
> wrote:
> 
> You would want a Fire TV in my opinion, not a fire stick.  The stick is a 
> bit less powered and while a good product the Fire TV is a very very good 
> product.  Accessibility has been continuously improved and the access to 
> prime video content is fantastic.  The stick has a slower processor, less 
> memory and is a bit different design.
> 

Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[Scott Granados]

Well, as I don’t live in a vacuum of blind only users 4K is important.  We also 
tend to record a lot of 4K content around here so it’s nice to have the 
playback option.

I’ve got a stick as well on the non 4K TV and you’re right it is pretty good.  
The size especially makes it nice and it’s great to bring with you if you’re 
traveling.

I think my major motivation for going with the Fire TV was the Fire TV was 
announced as accessible first so when I started ordering them the stick wasn’t 
an option yet.  You get used to what you use you know how that goes.


> On Apr 24, 2017, at 11:17 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> I don't know if the stick has 4K or not. I doubt it. As a blind person, I 
> don't care. As for the snappiness, obviously since I don't have a Fire TV, I 
> cannot compare it with the stick. But I'm pretty satisfied with the 
> snappiness of the stick. Says the TV doesn't give me any more access than the 
> stick, I couldn't see spending extra money. To each their own obviously.
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 24, 2017, at 7:49 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> The Fire TV has a better remote, better WiFi interface, faster processor, 
>> and a lot more snap to the interface from a user of TTS perspective.  I’m 
>> also not sure if the stick provides 4K video, the Fire TV does.  Both are 
>> good products don’t get me wrong I’m just a bigger fan of the Fire TV itself 
>> and use it more.
>>   Yes, Netflix and Hulu and the others have very good accessibility now 
>> including the sign in process.  The registering with providers for content 
>> like CBS and such is also more accessible on the Fire TV than Apple TV 
>> lately.  I think the cost between Fire TV and Apple TV is comparable, about 
>> twice the stick.
>> 
>> Devices aside on the amazon side, I think the content on Amazon is far 
>> better than Apple.  Sure you have iTunes on the Apple and can buy a lot of 
>> good content but that prime subscription sure includes a lot of top shelf 
>> stuff.  Amazon also has a clever way of releasing pilots and new content.  
>> What would have been ideal is if Amazon had made an app for Apple TV to 
>> stream prime content but we know the politics there.  As far as I know 
>> that’s not likely but this may have changed I’m not sure.  I like the button 
>> style of the amazon remote better than the Apple touch remote as well but 
>> that’s a personal preference thing, others probably disagree with me.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Apr 24, 2017, at 10:21 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Scott,
>>> I don't see the use case for a blind person with a Fire TV versus the 
>>> stick. I have a stick, the newer generation. It seems quite responsive. 
>>> Admittedly, I don't have the Fire TV to compare it with. But I just don't 
>>> see the point, unless money is no object and you don't mind spending more. 
>>> Also, it's worth noting with respect to the stick and the AppleTV, that the 
>>> problem both devices have is with third-party apps not being accessible. 
>>> There are still bunches of those that are not accessible with a stick, just 
>>> as there are on the Apple TV apps that are not accessible. When Apple 
>>> change the format and went to apps, it seems to me they lost control over 
>>> their excess ability. So now it's up to the app developers, and many of 
>>> them screw up. Speaking of excess ability, has the Netflix sign in process 
>>> finally become accessible on the fire tv or stick? I know when I signed in 
>>> with mine, I had to have help from a sighted person. Not so with the Apple 
>>> TV.
>>> Of course, I'm sure that is on Netflix  and, not Amazons. But it does 
>>> illustrate the problem. We are so dependent on third-party apps with regard 
>>> to whether these devices are really useful and accessible or not.
>>> Sent from my  iPhone
>>> 
 On Apr 24, 2017, at 6:55 AM, Scott Granados  
 wrote:
 
 You would want a Fire TV in my opinion, not a fire stick.  The stick is a 
 bit less powered and while a good product the Fire TV is a very very good 
 product.  Accessibility has been continuously improved and the access to 
 prime video content is fantastic.  The stick has a slower processor, less 
 memory and is a bit different design.
 The Apple TV to me is a let down, yet another thing Apple is failing at 
 but more specifically when it comes to accessibility.  The product is OK 
 but it’s getting less and less accessible as time passes.
 
> On Apr 24, 2017, at 8:49 AM, Jessica Moss  
> wrote:
> 
> Oh cool, how exactly does the firestick differ from the Apple Tv, other 
> than it’s way less moneywise, and is a USB stick?
>> On Apr 24, 2017, at 12:02 AM, David Chittenden  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Yes, these devices have parental control settings.
>> 
>> 

Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[Mary Otten]

I don't know if the stick has 4K or not. I doubt it. As a blind person, I don't 
care. As for the snappiness, obviously since I don't have a Fire TV, I cannot 
compare it with the stick. But I'm pretty satisfied with the snappiness of the 
stick. Says the TV doesn't give me any more access than the stick, I couldn't 
see spending extra money. To each their own obviously.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 24, 2017, at 7:49 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> The Fire TV has a better remote, better WiFi interface, faster processor, and 
> a lot more snap to the interface from a user of TTS perspective.  I’m also 
> not sure if the stick provides 4K video, the Fire TV does.  Both are good 
> products don’t get me wrong I’m just a bigger fan of the Fire TV itself and 
> use it more.
>Yes, Netflix and Hulu and the others have very good accessibility now 
> including the sign in process.  The registering with providers for content 
> like CBS and such is also more accessible on the Fire TV than Apple TV 
> lately.  I think the cost between Fire TV and Apple TV is comparable, about 
> twice the stick.
> 
> Devices aside on the amazon side, I think the content on Amazon is far better 
> than Apple.  Sure you have iTunes on the Apple and can buy a lot of good 
> content but that prime subscription sure includes a lot of top shelf stuff.  
> Amazon also has a clever way of releasing pilots and new content.  What would 
> have been ideal is if Amazon had made an app for Apple TV to stream prime 
> content but we know the politics there.  As far as I know that’s not likely 
> but this may have changed I’m not sure.  I like the button style of the 
> amazon remote better than the Apple touch remote as well but that’s a 
> personal preference thing, others probably disagree with me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Apr 24, 2017, at 10:21 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Scott,
>> I don't see the use case for a blind person with a Fire TV versus the stick. 
>> I have a stick, the newer generation. It seems quite responsive. Admittedly, 
>> I don't have the Fire TV to compare it with. But I just don't see the point, 
>> unless money is no object and you don't mind spending more. Also, it's worth 
>> noting with respect to the stick and the AppleTV, that the problem both 
>> devices have is with third-party apps not being accessible. There are still 
>> bunches of those that are not accessible with a stick, just as there are on 
>> the Apple TV apps that are not accessible. When Apple change the format and 
>> went to apps, it seems to me they lost control over their excess ability. So 
>> now it's up to the app developers, and many of them screw up. Speaking of 
>> excess ability, has the Netflix sign in process finally become accessible on 
>> the fire tv or stick? I know when I signed in with mine, I had to have help 
>> from a sighted person. Not so with the Apple TV.
>> Of course, I'm sure that is on Netflix  and, not Amazons. But it does 
>> illustrate the problem. We are so dependent on third-party apps with regard 
>> to whether these devices are really useful and accessible or not.
>> Sent from my  iPhone
>> 
>>> On Apr 24, 2017, at 6:55 AM, Scott Granados  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> You would want a Fire TV in my opinion, not a fire stick.  The stick is a 
>>> bit less powered and while a good product the Fire TV is a very very good 
>>> product.  Accessibility has been continuously improved and the access to 
>>> prime video content is fantastic.  The stick has a slower processor, less 
>>> memory and is a bit different design.
>>>  The Apple TV to me is a let down, yet another thing Apple is failing at 
>>> but more specifically when it comes to accessibility.  The product is OK 
>>> but it’s getting less and less accessible as time passes.
>>> 
 On Apr 24, 2017, at 8:49 AM, Jessica Moss  
 wrote:
 
 Oh cool, how exactly does the firestick differ from the Apple Tv, other 
 than it’s way less moneywise, and is a USB stick?
> On Apr 24, 2017, at 12:02 AM, David Chittenden  
> wrote:
> 
> Yes, these devices have parental control settings.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 24/04/2017, at 10:42, Jessica Moss  wrote:
>> 
>> Ok, probably a stupid question, but is there a way with those, to filter 
>> out what content you don’t want to view, perfect example, R-rated movies 
>> you obviously wouldn’t want your kids looking at?  Mom and I have been 
>> looking at ditching DirectTv, which is expensive as ever, and we either 
>> don’t watch half the stuff it comes with, or don’t get the other half, 
>> and she wants a fire stick, and on my end, it’s somewhat been a debate 
>> between an 

Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[John Panarese]

  OK. So how are you guys using the Fire Stick? I can’t find any information 
about its accessibility and how one uses it as a totally blind person. If you 
are doing so, please contact me off list.


Take Care

John D. Panarese
Director
Mac for the Blind
Tel, (631) 724-4479
Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com

APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL FOR MAC OSX LION

AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE

MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT



> On Apr 24, 2017, at 10:49 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> The Fire TV has a better remote, better WiFi interface, faster processor, and 
> a lot more snap to the interface from a user of TTS perspective.  I’m also 
> not sure if the stick provides 4K video, the Fire TV does.  Both are good 
> products don’t get me wrong I’m just a bigger fan of the Fire TV itself and 
> use it more.
>   Yes, Netflix and Hulu and the others have very good accessibility now 
> including the sign in process.  The registering with providers for content 
> like CBS and such is also more accessible on the Fire TV than Apple TV 
> lately.  I think the cost between Fire TV and Apple TV is comparable, about 
> twice the stick.
> 
> Devices aside on the amazon side, I think the content on Amazon is far better 
> than Apple.  Sure you have iTunes on the Apple and can buy a lot of good 
> content but that prime subscription sure includes a lot of top shelf stuff.  
> Amazon also has a clever way of releasing pilots and new content.  What would 
> have been ideal is if Amazon had made an app for Apple TV to stream prime 
> content but we know the politics there.  As far as I know that’s not likely 
> but this may have changed I’m not sure.  I like the button style of the 
> amazon remote better than the Apple touch remote as well but that’s a 
> personal preference thing, others probably disagree with me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Apr 24, 2017, at 10:21 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Scott,
>> I don't see the use case for a blind person with a Fire TV versus the stick. 
>> I have a stick, the newer generation. It seems quite responsive. Admittedly, 
>> I don't have the Fire TV to compare it with. But I just don't see the point, 
>> unless money is no object and you don't mind spending more. Also, it's worth 
>> noting with respect to the stick and the AppleTV, that the problem both 
>> devices have is with third-party apps not being accessible. There are still 
>> bunches of those that are not accessible with a stick, just as there are on 
>> the Apple TV apps that are not accessible. When Apple change the format and 
>> went to apps, it seems to me they lost control over their excess ability. So 
>> now it's up to the app developers, and many of them screw up. Speaking of 
>> excess ability, has the Netflix sign in process finally become accessible on 
>> the fire tv or stick? I know when I signed in with mine, I had to have help 
>> from a sighted person. Not so with the Apple TV.
>> Of course, I'm sure that is on Netflix  and, not Amazons. But it does 
>> illustrate the problem. We are so dependent on third-party apps with regard 
>> to whether these devices are really useful and accessible or not.
>> Sent from my  iPhone
>> 
>>> On Apr 24, 2017, at 6:55 AM, Scott Granados  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> You would want a Fire TV in my opinion, not a fire stick.  The stick is a 
>>> bit less powered and while a good product the Fire TV is a very very good 
>>> product.  Accessibility has been continuously improved and the access to 
>>> prime video content is fantastic.  The stick has a slower processor, less 
>>> memory and is a bit different design.
>>>  The Apple TV to me is a let down, yet another thing Apple is failing at 
>>> but more specifically when it comes to accessibility.  The product is OK 
>>> but it’s getting less and less accessible as time passes.
>>> 
 On Apr 24, 2017, at 8:49 AM, Jessica Moss  
 wrote:
 
 Oh cool, how exactly does the firestick differ from the Apple Tv, other 
 than it’s way less moneywise, and is a USB stick?
> On Apr 24, 2017, at 12:02 AM, David Chittenden  
> wrote:
> 
> Yes, these devices have parental control settings.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 24/04/2017, at 10:42, Jessica Moss  wrote:
>> 
>> Ok, probably a stupid question, but is there a way with those, to filter 
>> out what content you don’t want to view, perfect example, R-rated movies 
>> you obviously wouldn’t want your kids looking at?  Mom and I have been 
>> looking at ditching DirectTv, which is expensive as ever, and we either 
>> don’t watch half the stuff it comes with, or don’t get the other half, 

Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[Scott Granados]

The Fire TV has a better remote, better WiFi interface, faster processor, and a 
lot more snap to the interface from a user of TTS perspective.  I’m also not 
sure if the stick provides 4K video, the Fire TV does.  Both are good products 
don’t get me wrong I’m just a bigger fan of the Fire TV itself and use it more.
Yes, Netflix and Hulu and the others have very good accessibility now 
including the sign in process.  The registering with providers for content like 
CBS and such is also more accessible on the Fire TV than Apple TV lately.  I 
think the cost between Fire TV and Apple TV is comparable, about twice the 
stick.

Devices aside on the amazon side, I think the content on Amazon is far better 
than Apple.  Sure you have iTunes on the Apple and can buy a lot of good 
content but that prime subscription sure includes a lot of top shelf stuff.  
Amazon also has a clever way of releasing pilots and new content.  What would 
have been ideal is if Amazon had made an app for Apple TV to stream prime 
content but we know the politics there.  As far as I know that’s not likely but 
this may have changed I’m not sure.  I like the button style of the amazon 
remote better than the Apple touch remote as well but that’s a personal 
preference thing, others probably disagree with me.




> On Apr 24, 2017, at 10:21 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> Hi Scott,
> I don't see the use case for a blind person with a Fire TV versus the stick. 
> I have a stick, the newer generation. It seems quite responsive. Admittedly, 
> I don't have the Fire TV to compare it with. But I just don't see the point, 
> unless money is no object and you don't mind spending more. Also, it's worth 
> noting with respect to the stick and the AppleTV, that the problem both 
> devices have is with third-party apps not being accessible. There are still 
> bunches of those that are not accessible with a stick, just as there are on 
> the Apple TV apps that are not accessible. When Apple change the format and 
> went to apps, it seems to me they lost control over their excess ability. So 
> now it's up to the app developers, and many of them screw up. Speaking of 
> excess ability, has the Netflix sign in process finally become accessible on 
> the fire tv or stick? I know when I signed in with mine, I had to have help 
> from a sighted person. Not so with the Apple TV.
> Of course, I'm sure that is on Netflix  and, not Amazons. But it does 
> illustrate the problem. We are so dependent on third-party apps with regard 
> to whether these devices are really useful and accessible or not.
> Sent from my  iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 24, 2017, at 6:55 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> You would want a Fire TV in my opinion, not a fire stick.  The stick is a 
>> bit less powered and while a good product the Fire TV is a very very good 
>> product.  Accessibility has been continuously improved and the access to 
>> prime video content is fantastic.  The stick has a slower processor, less 
>> memory and is a bit different design.
>>   The Apple TV to me is a let down, yet another thing Apple is failing at 
>> but more specifically when it comes to accessibility.  The product is OK but 
>> it’s getting less and less accessible as time passes.
>> 
>>> On Apr 24, 2017, at 8:49 AM, Jessica Moss  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Oh cool, how exactly does the firestick differ from the Apple Tv, other 
>>> than it’s way less moneywise, and is a USB stick?
 On Apr 24, 2017, at 12:02 AM, David Chittenden  
 wrote:
 
 Yes, these devices have parental control settings.
 
 Kind regards,
 
 David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
 Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
 Mobile: +61 488 988 936
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On 24/04/2017, at 10:42, Jessica Moss  wrote:
> 
> Ok, probably a stupid question, but is there a way with those, to filter 
> out what content you don’t want to view, perfect example, R-rated movies 
> you obviously wouldn’t want your kids looking at?  Mom and I have been 
> looking at ditching DirectTv, which is expensive as ever, and we either 
> don’t watch half the stuff it comes with, or don’t get the other half, 
> and she wants a fire stick, and on my end, it’s somewhat been a debate 
> between an apple tv or a fire stick.
>> On Apr 23, 2017, at 4:45 PM, David Chittenden  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I have, and use, an Amazon Fire Stick. In Australia and NZ, it is not 
>> possible to check the local weather.
>> 
>> That said, Fire Stick works very well with NetFlicks. Like Apple TV, we 
>> have it set to always play Audio Description when available. We prefer 
>> Fire Stick over Apple TV, especially because of Codi, a way to watch any 
>> show and get around geo restrictions. Unfortunately, it is not speech 
>> accessible, so 

Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[Mary Otten]

Hi Scott,
I don't see the use case for a blind person with a Fire TV versus the stick. I 
have a stick, the newer generation. It seems quite responsive. Admittedly, I 
don't have the Fire TV to compare it with. But I just don't see the point, 
unless money is no object and you don't mind spending more. Also, it's worth 
noting with respect to the stick and the AppleTV, that the problem both devices 
have is with third-party apps not being accessible. There are still bunches of 
those that are not accessible with a stick, just as there are on the Apple TV 
apps that are not accessible. When Apple change the format and went to apps, it 
seems to me they lost control over their excess ability. So now it's up to the 
app developers, and many of them screw up. Speaking of excess ability, has the 
Netflix sign in process finally become accessible on the fire tv or stick? I 
know when I signed in with mine, I had to have help from a sighted person. Not 
so with the Apple TV. 
Of course, I'm sure that is on Netflix  and, not Amazons. But it does 
illustrate the problem. We are so dependent on third-party apps with regard to 
whether these devices are really useful and accessible or not.
 Sent from my  iPhone

> On Apr 24, 2017, at 6:55 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> You would want a Fire TV in my opinion, not a fire stick.  The stick is a bit 
> less powered and while a good product the Fire TV is a very very good 
> product.  Accessibility has been continuously improved and the access to 
> prime video content is fantastic.  The stick has a slower processor, less 
> memory and is a bit different design.
>The Apple TV to me is a let down, yet another thing Apple is failing at 
> but more specifically when it comes to accessibility.  The product is OK but 
> it’s getting less and less accessible as time passes.
> 
>> On Apr 24, 2017, at 8:49 AM, Jessica Moss  wrote:
>> 
>> Oh cool, how exactly does the firestick differ from the Apple Tv, other than 
>> it’s way less moneywise, and is a USB stick?
>>> On Apr 24, 2017, at 12:02 AM, David Chittenden  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Yes, these devices have parental control settings.
>>> 
>>> Kind regards,
>>> 
>>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>>> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On 24/04/2017, at 10:42, Jessica Moss  wrote:
 
 Ok, probably a stupid question, but is there a way with those, to filter 
 out what content you don’t want to view, perfect example, R-rated movies 
 you obviously wouldn’t want your kids looking at?  Mom and I have been 
 looking at ditching DirectTv, which is expensive as ever, and we either 
 don’t watch half the stuff it comes with, or don’t get the other half, and 
 she wants a fire stick, and on my end, it’s somewhat been a debate between 
 an apple tv or a fire stick.
> On Apr 23, 2017, at 4:45 PM, David Chittenden  
> wrote:
> 
> I have, and use, an Amazon Fire Stick. In Australia and NZ, it is not 
> possible to check the local weather.
> 
> That said, Fire Stick works very well with NetFlicks. Like Apple TV, we 
> have it set to always play Audio Description when available. We prefer 
> Fire Stick over Apple TV, especially because of Codi, a way to watch any 
> show and get around geo restrictions. Unfortunately, it is not speech 
> accessible, so my partner is the only one in this household who can run 
> it.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 24/04/2017, at 06:32, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi David and Krister. I just purchased an Amazon Echo Dot a few weeks 
>> ago and Alexa works perfectly. I can listen to my favorite iHeartRadio 
>> stations and Pandora just fine. Granted I used a VPN to create accounts 
>> for both services but even if I didn't have them because they don't work 
>> in Canada and if I didn't have a VPN, I could still probably listen to 
>> Tunein just fine. Also I had to use an American zipcode for weather but 
>> that's no problem. If you ask Alexa for weather conditions in, say 
>> Winnipeg where I'm from, she'll tell you what it's like here. Anyway, 
>> there are a bunch of articles and Youtube videos that show that you can 
>> use Alexa outside the US, you just gotta search for them.
>> 
>> Shawn
>> Sent From My White MacBook
>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
>> 
>>> On Apr 23, 2017, at 8:29 AM, Krister Ekstrom 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> That was what i was about to write a 

Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[Scott Granados]

You would want a Fire TV in my opinion, not a fire stick.  The stick is a bit 
less powered and while a good product the Fire TV is a very very good product.  
Accessibility has been continuously improved and the access to prime video 
content is fantastic.  The stick has a slower processor, less memory and is a 
bit different design.
The Apple TV to me is a let down, yet another thing Apple is failing at 
but more specifically when it comes to accessibility.  The product is OK but 
it’s getting less and less accessible as time passes.

> On Apr 24, 2017, at 8:49 AM, Jessica Moss  wrote:
> 
> Oh cool, how exactly does the firestick differ from the Apple Tv, other than 
> it’s way less moneywise, and is a USB stick?
>> On Apr 24, 2017, at 12:02 AM, David Chittenden  wrote:
>> 
>> Yes, these devices have parental control settings.
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> 
>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 24/04/2017, at 10:42, Jessica Moss  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Ok, probably a stupid question, but is there a way with those, to filter 
>>> out what content you don’t want to view, perfect example, R-rated movies 
>>> you obviously wouldn’t want your kids looking at?  Mom and I have been 
>>> looking at ditching DirectTv, which is expensive as ever, and we either 
>>> don’t watch half the stuff it comes with, or don’t get the other half, and 
>>> she wants a fire stick, and on my end, it’s somewhat been a debate between 
>>> an apple tv or a fire stick.
 On Apr 23, 2017, at 4:45 PM, David Chittenden  
 wrote:
 
 I have, and use, an Amazon Fire Stick. In Australia and NZ, it is not 
 possible to check the local weather.
 
 That said, Fire Stick works very well with NetFlicks. Like Apple TV, we 
 have it set to always play Audio Description when available. We prefer 
 Fire Stick over Apple TV, especially because of Codi, a way to watch any 
 show and get around geo restrictions. Unfortunately, it is not speech 
 accessible, so my partner is the only one in this household who can run it.
 
 Kind regards,
 
 David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
 Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
 Mobile: +61 488 988 936
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On 24/04/2017, at 06:32, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
> 
> Hi David and Krister. I just purchased an Amazon Echo Dot a few weeks ago 
> and Alexa works perfectly. I can listen to my favorite iHeartRadio 
> stations and Pandora just fine. Granted I used a VPN to create accounts 
> for both services but even if I didn't have them because they don't work 
> in Canada and if I didn't have a VPN, I could still probably listen to 
> Tunein just fine. Also I had to use an American zipcode for weather but 
> that's no problem. If you ask Alexa for weather conditions in, say 
> Winnipeg where I'm from, she'll tell you what it's like here. Anyway, 
> there are a bunch of articles and Youtube videos that show that you can 
> use Alexa outside the US, you just gotta search for them.
> 
> Shawn
> Sent From My White MacBook
> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
> 
>> On Apr 23, 2017, at 8:29 AM, Krister Ekstrom  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> That was what i was about to write a couple mails ago, many of those 
>> digital assistants have no or limited functionality outside the US. I’m 
>> not certain that even Google or Siri for that matter works at their 
>> fullest here in Sweden and then let’s not even begin to talk Samsungs 
>> new Bixby. I wonder when or rather if it will ever reach these cold is 
>> it latitudes?:-)
>> /Krister
>> 
>>> 23 apr. 2017 kl. 14:18 skrev David Chittenden :
>>> 
>>> Step outside the US, and Alexa falls apart. Unlike Siri and Google, 
>>> Alexa does not support anything outside it's limited geographical area. 
>>> This is why it is able to be so much better there, it is limited in 
>>> scope.
>>> 
>>> Kind regards,
>>> 
>>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>>> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On 23/04/2017, at 20:50, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
 
 Yes. Just search for Reverb for Amazon Alexa.
 
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On Apr 23, 2017, at 5:44 AM, Simon Fogarty  
> wrote:
> 
> So Sean,
> 
> This amazon alexa is available through an app for my iPhone?
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: 

Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[Scott Granados]

My opinion is Amazon should stick to artificial intelligence and web services 
along with retail and leave the phones to the professionals.:)

Not a big fan.

> On Apr 24, 2017, at 8:46 AM, Jessica Moss  wrote:
> 
> Whatt are your thoughts on the amazon firephone?  I thought about that when I 
> was about to upgrade my phone, but was really uncertain about it at the same 
> time sense I didn’t know anyone who owned one, and also had never used a fire 
> tablet as much as I really lusted after one.
>> On Apr 24, 2017, at 7:51 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi!
>> Actually i will get myself an Iphone Se just as an ipod and daisy book 
>> reader.
>> But i think i am not going to use it anymore as a phone and this just 
>> because apple doesn’t seem to have any intresting development in regards to 
>> Siri.
>> It took them forever to bring siri to Sweden but google seems to have made 
>> it 3 times as fast as Apple.
>> I admit that apple was the introducer to touch screens for me but since then 
>> things has changed a lot.
>> The fact that you can do a lot more with your Android pixel or any other 
>> brand also has changed my opinion.
>> Though i am not goin to give up the Ipad and the mac yet.
>> The mac is still a good computer and since things works as flawless as they 
>> should for me on the mac its not worth getting into something new.
>> And whats new anyway?
>> Windows isn’t and isn’t even going to be used by me either.
>> Maybe for fun but if i will give up mac i guess i will stick to linux.
>> /A
>>> 22 apr. 2017 kl. 12:27 skrev Scott Granados :
>>> 
>>> So, Apple brought us Siri and we had hi hopes but they’ve let it fall flat 
>>> on it’s face and are being schooled by Amazon and especially google.  Let’s 
>>> look at the announcements recently from the 3 companies.  Alexa continues 
>>> to make strides with additional integration across multiple platforms and 
>>> expanded languages and ability to parse complex sentences,  Google takes 
>>> things even farther allowing their units to distinguish between users by 
>>> their voices, provides tight integration with hundreds of data sources and 
>>> literally adds features on a biweekly basis, and Apple, what’s Apple 
>>> announcing.  Siri now can read your what’s app messages.  (Big freaking 
>>> whoop Apple).  Google announces multiple voice recognition and the addition 
>>> of real neural net technology and Apple can now read text messages from a 
>>> 3rd party app.  They have to do better.  The iPhone is such a good phone in 
>>> every way but then you’re stuck with Siri.  You are letting us down Apple, 
>>> you’re not innovating any more and you’re going to see folks like my self 
>>> for example jump off the Apple band wagon and squarely on to the Google 
>>> Pixel band wagon if you don’t get your act together.  Here’s a link to the 
>>> big announcement AKA Apple’s continued stagnation.
>>> 
>>> http://www.redmondpie.com/siri-on-ios-10.3-can-now-read-out-new-whatsapp-messages-for-you/
>>> 
>>> --
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - 
>>> you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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>> 
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To 

Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[Anders Holmberg]

HI!
Hopefully they will give us some features before we are dead. 
> 23 apr. 2017 kl. 15:29 skrev Krister Ekstrom :
> 
> That was what i was about to write a couple mails ago, many of those digital 
> assistants have no or limited functionality outside the US. I’m not certain 
> that even Google or Siri for that matter works at their fullest here in 
> Sweden and then let’s not even begin to talk Samsungs new Bixby. I wonder 
> when or rather if it will ever reach these cold is it latitudes?:-)
> /Krister
> 
>> 23 apr. 2017 kl. 14:18 skrev David Chittenden :
>> 
>> Step outside the US, and Alexa falls apart. Unlike Siri and Google, Alexa 
>> does not support anything outside it's limited geographical area. This is 
>> why it is able to be so much better there, it is limited in scope.
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> 
>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 23/04/2017, at 20:50, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Yes. Just search for Reverb for Amazon Alexa.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Apr 23, 2017, at 5:44 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
 
 So Sean,
 
 This amazon alexa is available through an app for my iPhone?
 
 -Original Message-
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Shawn Krasniuk
 Sent: Sunday, 23 April 2017 9:47 PM
 To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
 Subject: Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital 
 assistant game
 
 Hi Scott. I'm not Yuma but I can tell you who I think is the better AI. 
 After watching demos of the two of them, Alexa still wins hands down. 
 Sure, with Google Now, when you ask it questions, you can ask subsequent 
 questions about the topic you started with it. Alexa has a hard time with 
 that, but she has more smart devices she can connect to than Google. On a 
 video I saw, you can rectify the problem by using IFTTT, but that sounds 
 like it could be more complicated than it should be. Also, it just sounds 
 better to call your virtual assistant by a name rather than Google or 
 Amazon, so Alexa wins there too. Lastly, I can use Alexa anywhere I wish, 
 on my Mac or on my phone using Reverb and Google doesn't have anything 
 like that yet to my knowledge besides Allo, which like I said in my last 
 message, only sends messages through text. I'd rather have the app speak 
 the messages the assistant sends automatically like Alexa does in Reverb. 
 So for me, Alexa takes it.
 
 Shawn
 Sent From My White MacBook
 Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
 Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
 Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
 Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
 
> On Apr 23, 2017, at 3:19 AM, Scott Granados  
> wrote:
> 
> Wow there’s a lot of great points here.
> 
> I’m curious, as someone who’s heavily involved in AI who do you think is 
> the absolute cutting edge right now outside the classified space.  Maybe 
> you could rank a little the major publicly visible efforts like Watson 
> verses Google verses Amazon and such.  Who makes you think wow that’s 
> really impressive?  We know Apple in many ways is behind the times but 
> who’s way ahead?
> 
> Also, do you have any published papers or anything I could read of your 
> work you’ve impressed me with your response and I’d like to learn more 
> about where you’re coming from.
> 
> Thanks
> Scott
> 
> 
>> On Apr 23, 2017, at 3:54 AM, Yuma Decaux  wrote:
>> 
>> I wanted to chime in for a few points:
>> 
>> Apple is dispersing itself a bit too much. What's next on the line? A 
>> Lavazza partnership for a coffee machine? Or maybe some jogging shoes 
>> with mag safe laces? Better yet, a Mars lander capsule with an enhanced 
>> version of voice over? Wait, the latter is something they should aim 
>> for, shoot to mars projects, not attempts at capturing consumer markets 
>> outside of what they do best.
>> 
>> In terms of the A.I, as a daily A.I programmer, I'm not impressed at 
>> all. Why does siri forget a name I call all the time when it worked 
>> until then? What is the use of asking me the same thing all the time, 
>> when siri should know that I know the command better and faster than it 
>> can respond? And what about putting some of the phrases together, and 
>> assist in performance driven ways, which is the one major reason why I 
>> would like an assistant as a blind user? Wait, this bleeds into all 
>> users anyway, and google now + alexia are taking cloud based and data 
>> centric approaches 

Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[Jessica Moss]

Oh cool, how exactly does the firestick differ from the Apple Tv, other than 
it’s way less moneywise, and is a USB stick?
> On Apr 24, 2017, at 12:02 AM, David Chittenden  wrote:
> 
> Yes, these devices have parental control settings.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 24/04/2017, at 10:42, Jessica Moss  wrote:
>> 
>> Ok, probably a stupid question, but is there a way with those, to filter out 
>> what content you don’t want to view, perfect example, R-rated movies you 
>> obviously wouldn’t want your kids looking at?  Mom and I have been looking 
>> at ditching DirectTv, which is expensive as ever, and we either don’t watch 
>> half the stuff it comes with, or don’t get the other half, and she wants a 
>> fire stick, and on my end, it’s somewhat been a debate between an apple tv 
>> or a fire stick.
>>> On Apr 23, 2017, at 4:45 PM, David Chittenden  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I have, and use, an Amazon Fire Stick. In Australia and NZ, it is not 
>>> possible to check the local weather.
>>> 
>>> That said, Fire Stick works very well with NetFlicks. Like Apple TV, we 
>>> have it set to always play Audio Description when available. We prefer Fire 
>>> Stick over Apple TV, especially because of Codi, a way to watch any show 
>>> and get around geo restrictions. Unfortunately, it is not speech 
>>> accessible, so my partner is the only one in this household who can run it.
>>> 
>>> Kind regards,
>>> 
>>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>>> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On 24/04/2017, at 06:32, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
 
 Hi David and Krister. I just purchased an Amazon Echo Dot a few weeks ago 
 and Alexa works perfectly. I can listen to my favorite iHeartRadio 
 stations and Pandora just fine. Granted I used a VPN to create accounts 
 for both services but even if I didn't have them because they don't work 
 in Canada and if I didn't have a VPN, I could still probably listen to 
 Tunein just fine. Also I had to use an American zipcode for weather but 
 that's no problem. If you ask Alexa for weather conditions in, say 
 Winnipeg where I'm from, she'll tell you what it's like here. Anyway, 
 there are a bunch of articles and Youtube videos that show that you can 
 use Alexa outside the US, you just gotta search for them.
 
 Shawn
 Sent From My White MacBook
 Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
 Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
 Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
 Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
 
> On Apr 23, 2017, at 8:29 AM, Krister Ekstrom  
> wrote:
> 
> That was what i was about to write a couple mails ago, many of those 
> digital assistants have no or limited functionality outside the US. I’m 
> not certain that even Google or Siri for that matter works at their 
> fullest here in Sweden and then let’s not even begin to talk Samsungs new 
> Bixby. I wonder when or rather if it will ever reach these cold is it 
> latitudes?:-)
> /Krister
> 
>> 23 apr. 2017 kl. 14:18 skrev David Chittenden :
>> 
>> Step outside the US, and Alexa falls apart. Unlike Siri and Google, 
>> Alexa does not support anything outside it's limited geographical area. 
>> This is why it is able to be so much better there, it is limited in 
>> scope.
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> 
>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 23/04/2017, at 20:50, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Yes. Just search for Reverb for Amazon Alexa.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Apr 23, 2017, at 5:44 AM, Simon Fogarty  
 wrote:
 
 So Sean,
 
 This amazon alexa is available through an app for my iPhone?
 
 -Original Message-
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Shawn Krasniuk
 Sent: Sunday, 23 April 2017 9:47 PM
 To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
 Subject: Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital 
 assistant game
 
 Hi Scott. I'm not Yuma but I can tell you who I think is the better 
 AI. After watching demos of the two of them, Alexa still wins hands 
 down. Sure, with Google Now, when you ask it questions, you can ask 
 subsequent questions about the topic you started with it. Alexa has a 
 hard time with that, but she has more smart devices she can connect to 

Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[Jessica Moss]

Whatt are your thoughts on the amazon firephone?  I thought about that when I 
was about to upgrade my phone, but was really uncertain about it at the same 
time sense I didn’t know anyone who owned one, and also had never used a fire 
tablet as much as I really lusted after one.
> On Apr 24, 2017, at 7:51 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> Actually i will get myself an Iphone Se just as an ipod and daisy book reader.
> But i think i am not going to use it anymore as a phone and this just because 
> apple doesn’t seem to have any intresting development in regards to Siri.
> It took them forever to bring siri to Sweden but google seems to have made it 
> 3 times as fast as Apple.
> I admit that apple was the introducer to touch screens for me but since then 
> things has changed a lot.
> The fact that you can do a lot more with your Android pixel or any other 
> brand also has changed my opinion.
> Though i am not goin to give up the Ipad and the mac yet.
> The mac is still a good computer and since things works as flawless as they 
> should for me on the mac its not worth getting into something new.
> And whats new anyway?
> Windows isn’t and isn’t even going to be used by me either.
> Maybe for fun but if i will give up mac i guess i will stick to linux.
> /A
>> 22 apr. 2017 kl. 12:27 skrev Scott Granados :
>> 
>> So, Apple brought us Siri and we had hi hopes but they’ve let it fall flat 
>> on it’s face and are being schooled by Amazon and especially google.  Let’s 
>> look at the announcements recently from the 3 companies.  Alexa continues to 
>> make strides with additional integration across multiple platforms and 
>> expanded languages and ability to parse complex sentences,  Google takes 
>> things even farther allowing their units to distinguish between users by 
>> their voices, provides tight integration with hundreds of data sources and 
>> literally adds features on a biweekly basis, and Apple, what’s Apple 
>> announcing.  Siri now can read your what’s app messages.  (Big freaking 
>> whoop Apple).  Google announces multiple voice recognition and the addition 
>> of real neural net technology and Apple can now read text messages from a 
>> 3rd party app.  They have to do better.  The iPhone is such a good phone in 
>> every way but then you’re stuck with Siri.  You are letting us down Apple, 
>> you’re not innovating any more and you’re going to see folks like my self 
>> for example jump off the Apple band wagon and squarely on to the Google 
>> Pixel band wagon if you don’t get your act together.  Here’s a link to the 
>> big announcement AKA Apple’s continued stagnation.
>> 
>> http://www.redmondpie.com/siri-on-ios-10.3-can-now-read-out-new-whatsapp-messages-for-you/
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
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Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
Actually i will get myself an Iphone Se just as an ipod and daisy book reader.
But i think i am not going to use it anymore as a phone and this just because 
apple doesn’t seem to have any intresting development in regards to Siri.
It took them forever to bring siri to Sweden but google seems to have made it 3 
times as fast as Apple.
I admit that apple was the introducer to touch screens for me but since then 
things has changed a lot.
The fact that you can do a lot more with your Android pixel or any other brand 
also has changed my opinion.
Though i am not goin to give up the Ipad and the mac yet.
The mac is still a good computer and since things works as flawless as they 
should for me on the mac its not worth getting into something new.
And whats new anyway?
Windows isn’t and isn’t even going to be used by me either.
Maybe for fun but if i will give up mac i guess i will stick to linux.
/A
> 22 apr. 2017 kl. 12:27 skrev Scott Granados :
> 
> So, Apple brought us Siri and we had hi hopes but they’ve let it fall flat on 
> it’s face and are being schooled by Amazon and especially google.  Let’s look 
> at the announcements recently from the 3 companies.  Alexa continues to make 
> strides with additional integration across multiple platforms and expanded 
> languages and ability to parse complex sentences,  Google takes things even 
> farther allowing their units to distinguish between users by their voices, 
> provides tight integration with hundreds of data sources and literally adds 
> features on a biweekly basis, and Apple, what’s Apple announcing.  Siri now 
> can read your what’s app messages.  (Big freaking whoop Apple).  Google 
> announces multiple voice recognition and the addition of real neural net 
> technology and Apple can now read text messages from a 3rd party app.  They 
> have to do better.  The iPhone is such a good phone in every way but then 
> you’re stuck with Siri.  You are letting us down Apple, you’re not innovating 
> any more and you’re going to see folks like my self for example jump off the 
> Apple band wagon and squarely on to the Google Pixel band wagon if you don’t 
> get your act together.  Here’s a link to the big announcement AKA Apple’s 
> continued stagnation.
> 
> http://www.redmondpie.com/siri-on-ios-10.3-can-now-read-out-new-whatsapp-messages-for-you/
> 
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Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[Scott Granados]

Totally blind friendly in terms of accessibility.  The app you use to configure 
and update the device is absolutely 100% accessible on both major platforms, 
the settings are very simple and clean to set up and the directions you follow 
on the web for example to configure translate perfectly to a blind or sited 
user.  One of the easiest accessible things to set up I’ve ever used, right in 
line with the Apple experience we’re used to in terms of accessibility.  Also 
can say the same for the associated devices like the chrome cast devices I 
added.  I’ve reviewed products for years and I usually have a ding or two for 
accessibility or some area but the google home was the first thing I ever gave 
a full 5 stars.

Hope that helps


> On Apr 24, 2017, at 7:12 AM, Ryan Mann  wrote:
> 
> Could you set up Netflix yourself or did your partner have to set it up?  
> What about other settings such as the WIFI network?  I live alone, so if I 
> was to get a Fire Stick, I would need to be able to set it up.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 24, 2017, at 6:10 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> I believe there is an accessibility solution for COdi now.  Something that’s 
>> come out with in the last few weeks.  THere’s been mention of it on the 
>> android list although I don’t have specifics at hand.  You. Might google for 
>> a solution as I think one has recently been released.
>> 
>>> On Apr 23, 2017, at 4:45 PM, David Chittenden  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I have, and use, an Amazon Fire Stick. In Australia and NZ, it is not 
>>> possible to check the local weather.
>>> 
>>> That said, Fire Stick works very well with NetFlicks. Like Apple TV, we 
>>> have it set to always play Audio Description when available. We prefer Fire 
>>> Stick over Apple TV, especially because of Codi, a way to watch any show 
>>> and get around geo restrictions. Unfortunately, it is not speech 
>>> accessible, so my partner is the only one in this household who can run it.
>>> 
>>> Kind regards,
>>> 
>>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>>> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On 24/04/2017, at 06:32, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
 
 Hi David and Krister. I just purchased an Amazon Echo Dot a few weeks ago 
 and Alexa works perfectly. I can listen to my favorite iHeartRadio 
 stations and Pandora just fine. Granted I used a VPN to create accounts 
 for both services but even if I didn't have them because they don't work 
 in Canada and if I didn't have a VPN, I could still probably listen to 
 Tunein just fine. Also I had to use an American zipcode for weather but 
 that's no problem. If you ask Alexa for weather conditions in, say 
 Winnipeg where I'm from, she'll tell you what it's like here. Anyway, 
 there are a bunch of articles and Youtube videos that show that you can 
 use Alexa outside the US, you just gotta search for them.
 
 Shawn
 Sent From My White MacBook
 Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
 Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
 Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
 Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
 
> On Apr 23, 2017, at 8:29 AM, Krister Ekstrom  
> wrote:
> 
> That was what i was about to write a couple mails ago, many of those 
> digital assistants have no or limited functionality outside the US. I’m 
> not certain that even Google or Siri for that matter works at their 
> fullest here in Sweden and then let’s not even begin to talk Samsungs new 
> Bixby. I wonder when or rather if it will ever reach these cold is it 
> latitudes?:-)
> /Krister
> 
>> 23 apr. 2017 kl. 14:18 skrev David Chittenden :
>> 
>> Step outside the US, and Alexa falls apart. Unlike Siri and Google, 
>> Alexa does not support anything outside it's limited geographical area. 
>> This is why it is able to be so much better there, it is limited in 
>> scope.
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> 
>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 23/04/2017, at 20:50, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Yes. Just search for Reverb for Amazon Alexa.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Apr 23, 2017, at 5:44 AM, Simon Fogarty  
 wrote:
 
 So Sean,
 
 This amazon alexa is available through an app for my iPhone?
 
 -Original Message-
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Shawn Krasniuk
 Sent: Sunday, 23 April 2017 9:47 PM
 To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
 Subject: Re: And here's 

Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[Ryan Mann]

Could you set up Netflix yourself or did your partner have to set it up?  What 
about other settings such as the WIFI network?  I live alone, so if I was to 
get a Fire Stick, I would need to be able to set it up.


Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 24, 2017, at 6:10 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> I believe there is an accessibility solution for COdi now.  Something that’s 
> come out with in the last few weeks.  THere’s been mention of it on the 
> android list although I don’t have specifics at hand.  You. Might google for 
> a solution as I think one has recently been released.
> 
>> On Apr 23, 2017, at 4:45 PM, David Chittenden  wrote:
>> 
>> I have, and use, an Amazon Fire Stick. In Australia and NZ, it is not 
>> possible to check the local weather.
>> 
>> That said, Fire Stick works very well with NetFlicks. Like Apple TV, we have 
>> it set to always play Audio Description when available. We prefer Fire Stick 
>> over Apple TV, especially because of Codi, a way to watch any show and get 
>> around geo restrictions. Unfortunately, it is not speech accessible, so my 
>> partner is the only one in this household who can run it.
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> 
>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 24/04/2017, at 06:32, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi David and Krister. I just purchased an Amazon Echo Dot a few weeks ago 
>>> and Alexa works perfectly. I can listen to my favorite iHeartRadio stations 
>>> and Pandora just fine. Granted I used a VPN to create accounts for both 
>>> services but even if I didn't have them because they don't work in Canada 
>>> and if I didn't have a VPN, I could still probably listen to Tunein just 
>>> fine. Also I had to use an American zipcode for weather but that's no 
>>> problem. If you ask Alexa for weather conditions in, say Winnipeg where I'm 
>>> from, she'll tell you what it's like here. Anyway, there are a bunch of 
>>> articles and Youtube videos that show that you can use Alexa outside the 
>>> US, you just gotta search for them.
>>> 
>>> Shawn
>>> Sent From My White MacBook
>>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
>>> 
 On Apr 23, 2017, at 8:29 AM, Krister Ekstrom  
 wrote:
 
 That was what i was about to write a couple mails ago, many of those 
 digital assistants have no or limited functionality outside the US. I’m 
 not certain that even Google or Siri for that matter works at their 
 fullest here in Sweden and then let’s not even begin to talk Samsungs new 
 Bixby. I wonder when or rather if it will ever reach these cold is it 
 latitudes?:-)
 /Krister
 
> 23 apr. 2017 kl. 14:18 skrev David Chittenden :
> 
> Step outside the US, and Alexa falls apart. Unlike Siri and Google, Alexa 
> does not support anything outside it's limited geographical area. This is 
> why it is able to be so much better there, it is limited in scope.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 23/04/2017, at 20:50, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
>> 
>> Yes. Just search for Reverb for Amazon Alexa.
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Apr 23, 2017, at 5:44 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>> 
>>> So Sean,
>>> 
>>> This amazon alexa is available through an app for my iPhone?
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Shawn Krasniuk
>>> Sent: Sunday, 23 April 2017 9:47 PM
>>> To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
>>> Subject: Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital 
>>> assistant game
>>> 
>>> Hi Scott. I'm not Yuma but I can tell you who I think is the better AI. 
>>> After watching demos of the two of them, Alexa still wins hands down. 
>>> Sure, with Google Now, when you ask it questions, you can ask 
>>> subsequent questions about the topic you started with it. Alexa has a 
>>> hard time with that, but she has more smart devices she can connect to 
>>> than Google. On a video I saw, you can rectify the problem by using 
>>> IFTTT, but that sounds like it could be more complicated than it should 
>>> be. Also, it just sounds better to call your virtual assistant by a 
>>> name rather than Google or Amazon, so Alexa wins there too. Lastly, I 
>>> can use Alexa anywhere I wish, on my Mac or on my phone using Reverb 
>>> and Google doesn't have anything like that yet to my knowledge 

Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[Scott Granados]

I believe there is an accessibility solution for COdi now.  Something that’s 
come out with in the last few weeks.  THere’s been mention of it on the android 
list although I don’t have specifics at hand.  You. Might google for a solution 
as I think one has recently been released.

> On Apr 23, 2017, at 4:45 PM, David Chittenden  wrote:
> 
> I have, and use, an Amazon Fire Stick. In Australia and NZ, it is not 
> possible to check the local weather.
> 
> That said, Fire Stick works very well with NetFlicks. Like Apple TV, we have 
> it set to always play Audio Description when available. We prefer Fire Stick 
> over Apple TV, especially because of Codi, a way to watch any show and get 
> around geo restrictions. Unfortunately, it is not speech accessible, so my 
> partner is the only one in this household who can run it.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 24/04/2017, at 06:32, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi David and Krister. I just purchased an Amazon Echo Dot a few weeks ago 
>> and Alexa works perfectly. I can listen to my favorite iHeartRadio stations 
>> and Pandora just fine. Granted I used a VPN to create accounts for both 
>> services but even if I didn't have them because they don't work in Canada 
>> and if I didn't have a VPN, I could still probably listen to Tunein just 
>> fine. Also I had to use an American zipcode for weather but that's no 
>> problem. If you ask Alexa for weather conditions in, say Winnipeg where I'm 
>> from, she'll tell you what it's like here. Anyway, there are a bunch of 
>> articles and Youtube videos that show that you can use Alexa outside the US, 
>> you just gotta search for them.
>> 
>> Shawn
>> Sent From My White MacBook
>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
>> 
>>> On Apr 23, 2017, at 8:29 AM, Krister Ekstrom  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> That was what i was about to write a couple mails ago, many of those 
>>> digital assistants have no or limited functionality outside the US. I’m not 
>>> certain that even Google or Siri for that matter works at their fullest 
>>> here in Sweden and then let’s not even begin to talk Samsungs new Bixby. I 
>>> wonder when or rather if it will ever reach these cold is it latitudes?:-)
>>> /Krister
>>> 
 23 apr. 2017 kl. 14:18 skrev David Chittenden :
 
 Step outside the US, and Alexa falls apart. Unlike Siri and Google, Alexa 
 does not support anything outside it's limited geographical area. This is 
 why it is able to be so much better there, it is limited in scope.
 
 Kind regards,
 
 David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
 Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
 Mobile: +61 488 988 936
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On 23/04/2017, at 20:50, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
> 
> Yes. Just search for Reverb for Amazon Alexa.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 23, 2017, at 5:44 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>> 
>> So Sean,
>> 
>> This amazon alexa is available through an app for my iPhone?
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Shawn Krasniuk
>> Sent: Sunday, 23 April 2017 9:47 PM
>> To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
>> Subject: Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital 
>> assistant game
>> 
>> Hi Scott. I'm not Yuma but I can tell you who I think is the better AI. 
>> After watching demos of the two of them, Alexa still wins hands down. 
>> Sure, with Google Now, when you ask it questions, you can ask subsequent 
>> questions about the topic you started with it. Alexa has a hard time 
>> with that, but she has more smart devices she can connect to than 
>> Google. On a video I saw, you can rectify the problem by using IFTTT, 
>> but that sounds like it could be more complicated than it should be. 
>> Also, it just sounds better to call your virtual assistant by a name 
>> rather than Google or Amazon, so Alexa wins there too. Lastly, I can use 
>> Alexa anywhere I wish, on my Mac or on my phone using Reverb and Google 
>> doesn't have anything like that yet to my knowledge besides Allo, which 
>> like I said in my last message, only sends messages through text. I'd 
>> rather have the app speak the messages the assistant sends automatically 
>> like Alexa does in Reverb. So for me, Alexa takes it.
>> 
>> Shawn
>> Sent From My White MacBook
>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>> Facetime: 

RE: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[Simon Fogarty]

ThanksDavid,

 I wondered about that,

 Like siri when it was first released, great in the USA but crap in the likes 
of everywhere else.
-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of David Chittenden
Sent: Monday, 24 April 2017 12:18 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant 
game

Step outside the US, and Alexa falls apart. Unlike Siri and Google, Alexa does 
not support anything outside it's limited geographical area. This is why it is 
able to be so much better there, it is limited in scope.

Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +61 488 988 936
Sent from my iPhone

> On 23/04/2017, at 20:50, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
> 
> Yes. Just search for Reverb for Amazon Alexa.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 23, 2017, at 5:44 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>> 
>> So Sean,
>> 
>> This amazon alexa is available through an app for my iPhone?
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Shawn Krasniuk
>> Sent: Sunday, 23 April 2017 9:47 PM
>> To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
>> 
>> Subject: Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital 
>> assistant game
>> 
>> Hi Scott. I'm not Yuma but I can tell you who I think is the better AI. 
>> After watching demos of the two of them, Alexa still wins hands down. Sure, 
>> with Google Now, when you ask it questions, you can ask subsequent questions 
>> about the topic you started with it. Alexa has a hard time with that, but 
>> she has more smart devices she can connect to than Google. On a video I saw, 
>> you can rectify the problem by using IFTTT, but that sounds like it could be 
>> more complicated than it should be. Also, it just sounds better to call your 
>> virtual assistant by a name rather than Google or Amazon, so Alexa wins 
>> there too. Lastly, I can use Alexa anywhere I wish, on my Mac or on my phone 
>> using Reverb and Google doesn't have anything like that yet to my knowledge 
>> besides Allo, which like I said in my last message, only sends messages 
>> through text. I'd rather have the app speak the messages the assistant sends 
>> automatically like Alexa does in Reverb. So for me, Alexa takes it.
>> 
>> Shawn
>> Sent From My White MacBook
>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
>> 
>>> On Apr 23, 2017, at 3:19 AM, Scott Granados  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Wow there’s a lot of great points here.
>>> 
>>> I’m curious, as someone who’s heavily involved in AI who do you think is 
>>> the absolute cutting edge right now outside the classified space.  Maybe 
>>> you could rank a little the major publicly visible efforts like Watson 
>>> verses Google verses Amazon and such.  Who makes you think wow that’s 
>>> really impressive?  We know Apple in many ways is behind the times but 
>>> who’s way ahead?
>>> 
>>> Also, do you have any published papers or anything I could read of your 
>>> work you’ve impressed me with your response and I’d like to learn more 
>>> about where you’re coming from.
>>> 
>>> Thanks
>>> Scott
>>> 
>>> 
 On Apr 23, 2017, at 3:54 AM, Yuma Decaux  wrote:
 
 I wanted to chime in for a few points:
 
 Apple is dispersing itself a bit too much. What's next on the line? A 
 Lavazza partnership for a coffee machine? Or maybe some jogging shoes with 
 mag safe laces? Better yet, a Mars lander capsule with an enhanced version 
 of voice over? Wait, the latter is something they should aim for, shoot to 
 mars projects, not attempts at capturing consumer markets outside of what 
 they do best.
 
 In terms of the A.I, as a daily A.I programmer, I'm not impressed at all. 
 Why does siri forget a name I call all the time when it worked until then? 
 What is the use of asking me the same thing all the time, when siri should 
 know that I know the command better and faster than it can respond? And 
 what about putting some of the phrases together, and assist in performance 
 driven ways, which is the one major reason why I would like an assistant 
 as a blind user? Wait, this bleeds into all users anyway, and google now + 
 alexia are taking cloud based and data centric approaches way higher. To 
 be fair, Apple's frameworks are increasingly better, and the sheer breadth 
 of things you can do with their libraries is the model they have taken, to 
 create an eco system where the user can become one of the earners, and 
 participate in Apple's success, for some, along with their own. And taking 
 30% off their sales.
 
 But the fact is 

Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[David Chittenden]

Yes, these devices have parental control settings.

Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +61 488 988 936
Sent from my iPhone

> On 24/04/2017, at 10:42, Jessica Moss  wrote:
> 
> Ok, probably a stupid question, but is there a way with those, to filter out 
> what content you don’t want to view, perfect example, R-rated movies you 
> obviously wouldn’t want your kids looking at?  Mom and I have been looking at 
> ditching DirectTv, which is expensive as ever, and we either don’t watch half 
> the stuff it comes with, or don’t get the other half, and she wants a fire 
> stick, and on my end, it’s somewhat been a debate between an apple tv or a 
> fire stick.
>> On Apr 23, 2017, at 4:45 PM, David Chittenden  wrote:
>> 
>> I have, and use, an Amazon Fire Stick. In Australia and NZ, it is not 
>> possible to check the local weather.
>> 
>> That said, Fire Stick works very well with NetFlicks. Like Apple TV, we have 
>> it set to always play Audio Description when available. We prefer Fire Stick 
>> over Apple TV, especially because of Codi, a way to watch any show and get 
>> around geo restrictions. Unfortunately, it is not speech accessible, so my 
>> partner is the only one in this household who can run it.
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> 
>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 24/04/2017, at 06:32, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi David and Krister. I just purchased an Amazon Echo Dot a few weeks ago 
>>> and Alexa works perfectly. I can listen to my favorite iHeartRadio stations 
>>> and Pandora just fine. Granted I used a VPN to create accounts for both 
>>> services but even if I didn't have them because they don't work in Canada 
>>> and if I didn't have a VPN, I could still probably listen to Tunein just 
>>> fine. Also I had to use an American zipcode for weather but that's no 
>>> problem. If you ask Alexa for weather conditions in, say Winnipeg where I'm 
>>> from, she'll tell you what it's like here. Anyway, there are a bunch of 
>>> articles and Youtube videos that show that you can use Alexa outside the 
>>> US, you just gotta search for them.
>>> 
>>> Shawn
>>> Sent From My White MacBook
>>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
>>> 
 On Apr 23, 2017, at 8:29 AM, Krister Ekstrom  
 wrote:
 
 That was what i was about to write a couple mails ago, many of those 
 digital assistants have no or limited functionality outside the US. I’m 
 not certain that even Google or Siri for that matter works at their 
 fullest here in Sweden and then let’s not even begin to talk Samsungs new 
 Bixby. I wonder when or rather if it will ever reach these cold is it 
 latitudes?:-)
 /Krister
 
> 23 apr. 2017 kl. 14:18 skrev David Chittenden :
> 
> Step outside the US, and Alexa falls apart. Unlike Siri and Google, Alexa 
> does not support anything outside it's limited geographical area. This is 
> why it is able to be so much better there, it is limited in scope.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 23/04/2017, at 20:50, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
>> 
>> Yes. Just search for Reverb for Amazon Alexa.
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Apr 23, 2017, at 5:44 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>> 
>>> So Sean,
>>> 
>>> This amazon alexa is available through an app for my iPhone?
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Shawn Krasniuk
>>> Sent: Sunday, 23 April 2017 9:47 PM
>>> To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
>>> Subject: Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital 
>>> assistant game
>>> 
>>> Hi Scott. I'm not Yuma but I can tell you who I think is the better AI. 
>>> After watching demos of the two of them, Alexa still wins hands down. 
>>> Sure, with Google Now, when you ask it questions, you can ask 
>>> subsequent questions about the topic you started with it. Alexa has a 
>>> hard time with that, but she has more smart devices she can connect to 
>>> than Google. On a video I saw, you can rectify the problem by using 
>>> IFTTT, but that sounds like it could be more complicated than it should 
>>> be. Also, it just sounds better to call your virtual assistant by a 
>>> name rather than Google or Amazon, so Alexa wins there too. Lastly, I 
>>> can use Alexa anywhere I 

Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[Jessica Moss]

Ok, probably a stupid question, but is there a way with those, to filter out 
what content you don’t want to view, perfect example, R-rated movies you 
obviously wouldn’t want your kids looking at?  Mom and I have been looking at 
ditching DirectTv, which is expensive as ever, and we either don’t watch half 
the stuff it comes with, or don’t get the other half, and she wants a fire 
stick, and on my end, it’s somewhat been a debate between an apple tv or a fire 
stick.
> On Apr 23, 2017, at 4:45 PM, David Chittenden  wrote:
> 
> I have, and use, an Amazon Fire Stick. In Australia and NZ, it is not 
> possible to check the local weather.
> 
> That said, Fire Stick works very well with NetFlicks. Like Apple TV, we have 
> it set to always play Audio Description when available. We prefer Fire Stick 
> over Apple TV, especially because of Codi, a way to watch any show and get 
> around geo restrictions. Unfortunately, it is not speech accessible, so my 
> partner is the only one in this household who can run it.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 24/04/2017, at 06:32, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi David and Krister. I just purchased an Amazon Echo Dot a few weeks ago 
>> and Alexa works perfectly. I can listen to my favorite iHeartRadio stations 
>> and Pandora just fine. Granted I used a VPN to create accounts for both 
>> services but even if I didn't have them because they don't work in Canada 
>> and if I didn't have a VPN, I could still probably listen to Tunein just 
>> fine. Also I had to use an American zipcode for weather but that's no 
>> problem. If you ask Alexa for weather conditions in, say Winnipeg where I'm 
>> from, she'll tell you what it's like here. Anyway, there are a bunch of 
>> articles and Youtube videos that show that you can use Alexa outside the US, 
>> you just gotta search for them.
>> 
>> Shawn
>> Sent From My White MacBook
>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
>> 
>>> On Apr 23, 2017, at 8:29 AM, Krister Ekstrom  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> That was what i was about to write a couple mails ago, many of those 
>>> digital assistants have no or limited functionality outside the US. I’m not 
>>> certain that even Google or Siri for that matter works at their fullest 
>>> here in Sweden and then let’s not even begin to talk Samsungs new Bixby. I 
>>> wonder when or rather if it will ever reach these cold is it latitudes?:-)
>>> /Krister
>>> 
 23 apr. 2017 kl. 14:18 skrev David Chittenden :
 
 Step outside the US, and Alexa falls apart. Unlike Siri and Google, Alexa 
 does not support anything outside it's limited geographical area. This is 
 why it is able to be so much better there, it is limited in scope.
 
 Kind regards,
 
 David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
 Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
 Mobile: +61 488 988 936
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On 23/04/2017, at 20:50, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
> 
> Yes. Just search for Reverb for Amazon Alexa.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 23, 2017, at 5:44 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>> 
>> So Sean,
>> 
>> This amazon alexa is available through an app for my iPhone?
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Shawn Krasniuk
>> Sent: Sunday, 23 April 2017 9:47 PM
>> To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
>> Subject: Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital 
>> assistant game
>> 
>> Hi Scott. I'm not Yuma but I can tell you who I think is the better AI. 
>> After watching demos of the two of them, Alexa still wins hands down. 
>> Sure, with Google Now, when you ask it questions, you can ask subsequent 
>> questions about the topic you started with it. Alexa has a hard time 
>> with that, but she has more smart devices she can connect to than 
>> Google. On a video I saw, you can rectify the problem by using IFTTT, 
>> but that sounds like it could be more complicated than it should be. 
>> Also, it just sounds better to call your virtual assistant by a name 
>> rather than Google or Amazon, so Alexa wins there too. Lastly, I can use 
>> Alexa anywhere I wish, on my Mac or on my phone using Reverb and Google 
>> doesn't have anything like that yet to my knowledge besides Allo, which 
>> like I said in my last message, only sends messages through text. I'd 
>> rather have the app speak the messages the assistant sends automatically 
>> like Alexa does in Reverb. So for me, Alexa takes it.

Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[David Chittenden]

I have, and use, an Amazon Fire Stick. In Australia and NZ, it is not possible 
to check the local weather.

That said, Fire Stick works very well with NetFlicks. Like Apple TV, we have it 
set to always play Audio Description when available. We prefer Fire Stick over 
Apple TV, especially because of Codi, a way to watch any show and get around 
geo restrictions. Unfortunately, it is not speech accessible, so my partner is 
the only one in this household who can run it.

Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +61 488 988 936
Sent from my iPhone

> On 24/04/2017, at 06:32, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
> 
> Hi David and Krister. I just purchased an Amazon Echo Dot a few weeks ago and 
> Alexa works perfectly. I can listen to my favorite iHeartRadio stations and 
> Pandora just fine. Granted I used a VPN to create accounts for both services 
> but even if I didn't have them because they don't work in Canada and if I 
> didn't have a VPN, I could still probably listen to Tunein just fine. Also I 
> had to use an American zipcode for weather but that's no problem. If you ask 
> Alexa for weather conditions in, say Winnipeg where I'm from, she'll tell you 
> what it's like here. Anyway, there are a bunch of articles and Youtube videos 
> that show that you can use Alexa outside the US, you just gotta search for 
> them.
> 
> Shawn
> Sent From My White MacBook
> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
> 
>> On Apr 23, 2017, at 8:29 AM, Krister Ekstrom  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> That was what i was about to write a couple mails ago, many of those digital 
>> assistants have no or limited functionality outside the US. I’m not certain 
>> that even Google or Siri for that matter works at their fullest here in 
>> Sweden and then let’s not even begin to talk Samsungs new Bixby. I wonder 
>> when or rather if it will ever reach these cold is it latitudes?:-)
>> /Krister
>> 
>>> 23 apr. 2017 kl. 14:18 skrev David Chittenden :
>>> 
>>> Step outside the US, and Alexa falls apart. Unlike Siri and Google, Alexa 
>>> does not support anything outside it's limited geographical area. This is 
>>> why it is able to be so much better there, it is limited in scope.
>>> 
>>> Kind regards,
>>> 
>>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>>> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On 23/04/2017, at 20:50, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
 
 Yes. Just search for Reverb for Amazon Alexa.
 
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On Apr 23, 2017, at 5:44 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> So Sean,
> 
> This amazon alexa is available through an app for my iPhone?
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Shawn Krasniuk
> Sent: Sunday, 23 April 2017 9:47 PM
> To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
> Subject: Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital 
> assistant game
> 
> Hi Scott. I'm not Yuma but I can tell you who I think is the better AI. 
> After watching demos of the two of them, Alexa still wins hands down. 
> Sure, with Google Now, when you ask it questions, you can ask subsequent 
> questions about the topic you started with it. Alexa has a hard time with 
> that, but she has more smart devices she can connect to than Google. On a 
> video I saw, you can rectify the problem by using IFTTT, but that sounds 
> like it could be more complicated than it should be. Also, it just sounds 
> better to call your virtual assistant by a name rather than Google or 
> Amazon, so Alexa wins there too. Lastly, I can use Alexa anywhere I wish, 
> on my Mac or on my phone using Reverb and Google doesn't have anything 
> like that yet to my knowledge besides Allo, which like I said in my last 
> message, only sends messages through text. I'd rather have the app speak 
> the messages the assistant sends automatically like Alexa does in Reverb. 
> So for me, Alexa takes it.
> 
> Shawn
> Sent From My White MacBook
> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
> 
>> On Apr 23, 2017, at 3:19 AM, Scott Granados  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Wow there’s a lot of great points here.
>> 
>> I’m curious, as someone who’s heavily involved in AI who do you think is 
>> the absolute cutting edge right now outside the classified space.  Maybe 
>> you could rank a little the major publicly visible efforts like Watson 
>> verses Google verses Amazon and such.  Who makes you 

Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[-dan d.]

Alexa works in the uk and ireland also.

On Sun, 23 Apr 2017, David Chittenden wrote:


Step outside the US, and Alexa falls apart. Unlike Siri and Google, Alexa does 
not support anything outside it's limited geographical area. This is why it is 
able to be so much better there, it is limited in scope.

Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +61 488 988 936
Sent from my iPhone


On 23/04/2017, at 20:50, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:

Yes. Just search for Reverb for Amazon Alexa.


Sent from my iPhone


On Apr 23, 2017, at 5:44 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:

So Sean,

This amazon alexa is available through an app for my iPhone?

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Shawn Krasniuk
Sent: Sunday, 23 April 2017 9:47 PM
To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
Subject: Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant 
game

Hi Scott. I'm not Yuma but I can tell you who I think is the better AI. After 
watching demos of the two of them, Alexa still wins hands down. Sure, with 
Google Now, when you ask it questions, you can ask subsequent questions about 
the topic you started with it. Alexa has a hard time with that, but she has 
more smart devices she can connect to than Google. On a video I saw, you can 
rectify the problem by using IFTTT, but that sounds like it could be more 
complicated than it should be. Also, it just sounds better to call your virtual 
assistant by a name rather than Google or Amazon, so Alexa wins there too. 
Lastly, I can use Alexa anywhere I wish, on my Mac or on my phone using Reverb 
and Google doesn't have anything like that yet to my knowledge besides Allo, 
which like I said in my last message, only sends messages through text. I'd 
rather have the app speak the messages the assistant sends automatically like 
Alexa does in Reverb. So for me, Alexa takes it.

Shawn
Sent From My White MacBook
Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com


On Apr 23, 2017, at 3:19 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:

Wow there?s a lot of great points here.

I?m curious, as someone who?s heavily involved in AI who do you think is the 
absolute cutting edge right now outside the classified space.  Maybe you could 
rank a little the major publicly visible efforts like Watson verses Google 
verses Amazon and such.  Who makes you think wow that?s really impressive?  We 
know Apple in many ways is behind the times but who?s way ahead?

Also, do you have any published papers or anything I could read of your work 
you?ve impressed me with your response and I?d like to learn more about where 
you?re coming from.

Thanks
Scott



On Apr 23, 2017, at 3:54 AM, Yuma Decaux  wrote:

I wanted to chime in for a few points:

Apple is dispersing itself a bit too much. What's next on the line? A Lavazza 
partnership for a coffee machine? Or maybe some jogging shoes with mag safe 
laces? Better yet, a Mars lander capsule with an enhanced version of voice 
over? Wait, the latter is something they should aim for, shoot to mars 
projects, not attempts at capturing consumer markets outside of what they do 
best.

In terms of the A.I, as a daily A.I programmer, I'm not impressed at all. Why 
does siri forget a name I call all the time when it worked until then? What is 
the use of asking me the same thing all the time, when siri should know that I 
know the command better and faster than it can respond? And what about putting 
some of the phrases together, and assist in performance driven ways, which is 
the one major reason why I would like an assistant as a blind user? Wait, this 
bleeds into all users anyway, and google now + alexia are taking cloud based 
and data centric approaches way higher. To be fair, Apple's frameworks are 
increasingly better, and the sheer breadth of things you can do with their 
libraries is the model they have taken, to create an eco system where the user 
can become one of the earners, and participate in Apple's success, for some, 
along with their own. And taking 30% off their sales.

But the fact is that Apple has lost in not using the data available to them, 
and this comes to one thing Apple distinguishes itself from the other players: 
The OS and hardware setup is a help, not a listener. Entertainment, not a 
commodity, like the advertising model Google or FB take. And this is the crux 
of their problem, which is a societal question: how much are you privvy to your 
own circle, and how much is the public image and lifestyle? Do both agree that 
there are worldly matters that require engineering, and thus pro connectivity 
to everything? OSX connects to Linux, windows, and its programming language 
swift is now ported to linux. Integration with python and other 

Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[Shawn Krasniuk]

Hi David and Krister. I just purchased an Amazon Echo Dot a few weeks ago and 
Alexa works perfectly. I can listen to my favorite iHeartRadio stations and 
Pandora just fine. Granted I used a VPN to create accounts for both services 
but even if I didn't have them because they don't work in Canada and if I 
didn't have a VPN, I could still probably listen to Tunein just fine. Also I 
had to use an American zipcode for weather but that's no problem. If you ask 
Alexa for weather conditions in, say Winnipeg where I'm from, she'll tell you 
what it's like here. Anyway, there are a bunch of articles and Youtube videos 
that show that you can use Alexa outside the US, you just gotta search for them.

Shawn
Sent From My White MacBook
Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com

> On Apr 23, 2017, at 8:29 AM, Krister Ekstrom  
> wrote:
> 
> That was what i was about to write a couple mails ago, many of those digital 
> assistants have no or limited functionality outside the US. I’m not certain 
> that even Google or Siri for that matter works at their fullest here in 
> Sweden and then let’s not even begin to talk Samsungs new Bixby. I wonder 
> when or rather if it will ever reach these cold is it latitudes?:-)
> /Krister
> 
>> 23 apr. 2017 kl. 14:18 skrev David Chittenden :
>> 
>> Step outside the US, and Alexa falls apart. Unlike Siri and Google, Alexa 
>> does not support anything outside it's limited geographical area. This is 
>> why it is able to be so much better there, it is limited in scope.
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> 
>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 23/04/2017, at 20:50, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Yes. Just search for Reverb for Amazon Alexa.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Apr 23, 2017, at 5:44 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
 
 So Sean,
 
 This amazon alexa is available through an app for my iPhone?
 
 -Original Message-
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Shawn Krasniuk
 Sent: Sunday, 23 April 2017 9:47 PM
 To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
 Subject: Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital 
 assistant game
 
 Hi Scott. I'm not Yuma but I can tell you who I think is the better AI. 
 After watching demos of the two of them, Alexa still wins hands down. 
 Sure, with Google Now, when you ask it questions, you can ask subsequent 
 questions about the topic you started with it. Alexa has a hard time with 
 that, but she has more smart devices she can connect to than Google. On a 
 video I saw, you can rectify the problem by using IFTTT, but that sounds 
 like it could be more complicated than it should be. Also, it just sounds 
 better to call your virtual assistant by a name rather than Google or 
 Amazon, so Alexa wins there too. Lastly, I can use Alexa anywhere I wish, 
 on my Mac or on my phone using Reverb and Google doesn't have anything 
 like that yet to my knowledge besides Allo, which like I said in my last 
 message, only sends messages through text. I'd rather have the app speak 
 the messages the assistant sends automatically like Alexa does in Reverb. 
 So for me, Alexa takes it.
 
 Shawn
 Sent From My White MacBook
 Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
 Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
 Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
 Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
 
> On Apr 23, 2017, at 3:19 AM, Scott Granados  
> wrote:
> 
> Wow there’s a lot of great points here.
> 
> I’m curious, as someone who’s heavily involved in AI who do you think is 
> the absolute cutting edge right now outside the classified space.  Maybe 
> you could rank a little the major publicly visible efforts like Watson 
> verses Google verses Amazon and such.  Who makes you think wow that’s 
> really impressive?  We know Apple in many ways is behind the times but 
> who’s way ahead?
> 
> Also, do you have any published papers or anything I could read of your 
> work you’ve impressed me with your response and I’d like to learn more 
> about where you’re coming from.
> 
> Thanks
> Scott
> 
> 
>> On Apr 23, 2017, at 3:54 AM, Yuma Decaux  wrote:
>> 
>> I wanted to chime in for a few points:
>> 
>> Apple is dispersing itself a bit too much. What's next on the line? A 
>> Lavazza partnership for a coffee machine? Or maybe some jogging shoes 
>> with mag safe laces? Better yet, a Mars lander capsule with an enhanced 
>> version of voice over? Wait, the 

Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[Scott Granados]

Kawal, you might like the Google TTS.  Siri is a Nuance voice but I don’t see 
the point of a great voice attached to a weak back end.

The google voice is rendered on line and sounds very good on their google home.

Also the voice on the Fire TV seems a little better than the stick probably 
something to do with the power available to render the voice.  You might try a 
demo of the Fire TV and see if you like it better.  I have a Fire TV and have 
replaced my Apple TV with it.

> On Apr 23, 2017, at 11:14 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> I was listening to a demo of Amazon's Fire Stick whilst walking on my 
> Treadmill this morning.  I hate Alexa, I hate the voice.  I prefer Siri's 
> female voice.  Oh I know Siri can't do very much i.e. you can't have a 
> serious conversation with Siri, I wish you could.  I'd love to have a proper 
> dialogue with an assistant but at the moment, although I don't use Android or 
> Amazon stuff, the voices are not for me.  So how about that in the mix hey?
> 
> Kawal.
>> On 23 Apr 2017, at 10:47, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Scott. I'm not Yuma but I can tell you who I think is the better AI. 
>> After watching demos of the two of them, Alexa still wins hands down. Sure, 
>> with Google Now, when you ask it questions, you can ask subsequent questions 
>> about the topic you started with it. Alexa has a hard time with that, but 
>> she has more smart devices she can connect to than Google. On a video I saw, 
>> you can rectify the problem by using IFTTT, but that sounds like it could be 
>> more complicated than it should be. Also, it just sounds better to call your 
>> virtual assistant by a name rather than Google or Amazon, so Alexa wins 
>> there too. Lastly, I can use Alexa anywhere I wish, on my Mac or on my phone 
>> using Reverb and Google doesn't have anything like that yet to my knowledge 
>> besides Allo, which like I said in my last message, only sends messages 
>> through text. I'd rather have the app speak the messages the assistant sends 
>> automatically like Alexa does in Reverb. So for me, Alexa takes it.
>> 
>> Shawn
>> Sent From My White MacBook
>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
>> 
>>> On Apr 23, 2017, at 3:19 AM, Scott Granados  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Wow there’s a lot of great points here.
>>> 
>>> I’m curious, as someone who’s heavily involved in AI who do you think is 
>>> the absolute cutting edge right now outside the classified space.  Maybe 
>>> you could rank a little the major publicly visible efforts like Watson 
>>> verses Google verses Amazon and such.  Who makes you think wow that’s 
>>> really impressive?  We know Apple in many ways is behind the times but 
>>> who’s way ahead?
>>> 
>>> Also, do you have any published papers or anything I could read of your 
>>> work you’ve impressed me with your response and I’d like to learn more 
>>> about where you’re coming from.
>>> 
>>> Thanks
>>> Scott
>>> 
>>> 
 On Apr 23, 2017, at 3:54 AM, Yuma Decaux  wrote:
 
 I wanted to chime in for a few points:
 
 Apple is dispersing itself a bit too much. What's next on the line? A 
 Lavazza partnership for a coffee machine? Or maybe some jogging shoes with 
 mag safe laces? Better yet, a Mars lander capsule with an enhanced version 
 of voice over? Wait, the latter is something they should aim for, shoot to 
 mars projects, not attempts at capturing consumer markets outside of what 
 they do best.
 
 In terms of the A.I, as a daily A.I programmer, I'm not impressed at all. 
 Why does siri forget a name I call all the time when it worked until then? 
 What is the use of asking me the same thing all the time, when siri should 
 know that I know the command better and faster than it can respond? And 
 what about putting some of the phrases together, and assist in performance 
 driven ways, which is the one major reason why I would like an assistant 
 as a blind user? Wait, this bleeds into all users anyway, and google now + 
 alexia are taking cloud based and data centric approaches way higher. To 
 be fair, Apple's frameworks are increasingly better, and the sheer breadth 
 of things you can do with their libraries is the model they have taken, to 
 create an eco system where the user can become one of the earners, and 
 participate in Apple's success, for some, along with their own. And taking 
 30% off their sales.
 
 But the fact is that Apple has lost in not using the data available to 
 them, and this comes to one thing Apple distinguishes itself from the 
 other players: The OS and hardware setup is a help, not a listener. 
 Entertainment, not a commodity, like the advertising model Google or FB 
 take. And this is the crux of their 

Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

I was listening to a demo of Amazon's Fire Stick whilst walking on my Treadmill 
this morning.  I hate Alexa, I hate the voice.  I prefer Siri's female voice.  
Oh I know Siri can't do very much i.e. you can't have a serious conversation 
with Siri, I wish you could.  I'd love to have a proper dialogue with an 
assistant but at the moment, although I don't use Android or Amazon stuff, the 
voices are not for me.  So how about that in the mix hey?

Kawal.
> On 23 Apr 2017, at 10:47, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
> 
> Hi Scott. I'm not Yuma but I can tell you who I think is the better AI. After 
> watching demos of the two of them, Alexa still wins hands down. Sure, with 
> Google Now, when you ask it questions, you can ask subsequent questions about 
> the topic you started with it. Alexa has a hard time with that, but she has 
> more smart devices she can connect to than Google. On a video I saw, you can 
> rectify the problem by using IFTTT, but that sounds like it could be more 
> complicated than it should be. Also, it just sounds better to call your 
> virtual assistant by a name rather than Google or Amazon, so Alexa wins there 
> too. Lastly, I can use Alexa anywhere I wish, on my Mac or on my phone using 
> Reverb and Google doesn't have anything like that yet to my knowledge besides 
> Allo, which like I said in my last message, only sends messages through text. 
> I'd rather have the app speak the messages the assistant sends automatically 
> like Alexa does in Reverb. So for me, Alexa takes it.
> 
> Shawn
> Sent From My White MacBook
> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
> 
>> On Apr 23, 2017, at 3:19 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> Wow there’s a lot of great points here.
>> 
>> I’m curious, as someone who’s heavily involved in AI who do you think is the 
>> absolute cutting edge right now outside the classified space.  Maybe you 
>> could rank a little the major publicly visible efforts like Watson verses 
>> Google verses Amazon and such.  Who makes you think wow that’s really 
>> impressive?  We know Apple in many ways is behind the times but who’s way 
>> ahead?
>> 
>> Also, do you have any published papers or anything I could read of your work 
>> you’ve impressed me with your response and I’d like to learn more about 
>> where you’re coming from.
>> 
>> Thanks
>> Scott
>> 
>> 
>>> On Apr 23, 2017, at 3:54 AM, Yuma Decaux  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I wanted to chime in for a few points:
>>> 
>>> Apple is dispersing itself a bit too much. What's next on the line? A 
>>> Lavazza partnership for a coffee machine? Or maybe some jogging shoes with 
>>> mag safe laces? Better yet, a Mars lander capsule with an enhanced version 
>>> of voice over? Wait, the latter is something they should aim for, shoot to 
>>> mars projects, not attempts at capturing consumer markets outside of what 
>>> they do best.
>>> 
>>> In terms of the A.I, as a daily A.I programmer, I'm not impressed at all. 
>>> Why does siri forget a name I call all the time when it worked until then? 
>>> What is the use of asking me the same thing all the time, when siri should 
>>> know that I know the command better and faster than it can respond? And 
>>> what about putting some of the phrases together, and assist in performance 
>>> driven ways, which is the one major reason why I would like an assistant as 
>>> a blind user? Wait, this bleeds into all users anyway, and google now + 
>>> alexia are taking cloud based and data centric approaches way higher. To be 
>>> fair, Apple's frameworks are increasingly better, and the sheer breadth of 
>>> things you can do with their libraries is the model they have taken, to 
>>> create an eco system where the user can become one of the earners, and 
>>> participate in Apple's success, for some, along with their own. And taking 
>>> 30% off their sales.
>>> 
>>> But the fact is that Apple has lost in not using the data available to 
>>> them, and this comes to one thing Apple distinguishes itself from the other 
>>> players: The OS and hardware setup is a help, not a listener. 
>>> Entertainment, not a commodity, like the advertising model Google or FB 
>>> take. And this is the crux of their problem, which is a societal question: 
>>> how much are you privvy to your own circle, and how much is the public 
>>> image and lifestyle? Do both agree that there are worldly matters that 
>>> require engineering, and thus pro connectivity to everything? OSX connects 
>>> to Linux, windows, and its programming language swift is now ported to 
>>> linux. Integration with python and other languages is amazing, and it is c 
>>> based. When you say Apple's interface is easy to use, it is and it 
>>> accelerates as you learn your key commands.
>>> 
>>> But in this era of A.I, where it faults is the assistant's capacity to 
>>> really assist, not be a 

Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[Jessica Moss]

It is, but to my knowledge, you can’t take full advantage without the amazon 
echo dock to go with it.
> On Apr 23, 2017, at 6:44 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> So Sean,
> 
> This amazon alexa is available through an app for my iPhone?
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Shawn Krasniuk
> Sent: Sunday, 23 April 2017 9:47 PM
> To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
> Subject: Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital 
> assistant game
> 
> Hi Scott. I'm not Yuma but I can tell you who I think is the better AI. After 
> watching demos of the two of them, Alexa still wins hands down. Sure, with 
> Google Now, when you ask it questions, you can ask subsequent questions about 
> the topic you started with it. Alexa has a hard time with that, but she has 
> more smart devices she can connect to than Google. On a video I saw, you can 
> rectify the problem by using IFTTT, but that sounds like it could be more 
> complicated than it should be. Also, it just sounds better to call your 
> virtual assistant by a name rather than Google or Amazon, so Alexa wins there 
> too. Lastly, I can use Alexa anywhere I wish, on my Mac or on my phone using 
> Reverb and Google doesn't have anything like that yet to my knowledge besides 
> Allo, which like I said in my last message, only sends messages through text. 
> I'd rather have the app speak the messages the assistant sends automatically 
> like Alexa does in Reverb. So for me, Alexa takes it.
> 
> Shawn
> Sent From My White MacBook
> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
> 
>> On Apr 23, 2017, at 3:19 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> Wow there’s a lot of great points here.
>> 
>> I’m curious, as someone who’s heavily involved in AI who do you think is the 
>> absolute cutting edge right now outside the classified space.  Maybe you 
>> could rank a little the major publicly visible efforts like Watson verses 
>> Google verses Amazon and such.  Who makes you think wow that’s really 
>> impressive?  We know Apple in many ways is behind the times but who’s way 
>> ahead?
>> 
>> Also, do you have any published papers or anything I could read of your work 
>> you’ve impressed me with your response and I’d like to learn more about 
>> where you’re coming from.
>> 
>> Thanks
>> Scott
>> 
>> 
>>> On Apr 23, 2017, at 3:54 AM, Yuma Decaux  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I wanted to chime in for a few points:
>>> 
>>> Apple is dispersing itself a bit too much. What's next on the line? A 
>>> Lavazza partnership for a coffee machine? Or maybe some jogging shoes with 
>>> mag safe laces? Better yet, a Mars lander capsule with an enhanced version 
>>> of voice over? Wait, the latter is something they should aim for, shoot to 
>>> mars projects, not attempts at capturing consumer markets outside of what 
>>> they do best.
>>> 
>>> In terms of the A.I, as a daily A.I programmer, I'm not impressed at all. 
>>> Why does siri forget a name I call all the time when it worked until then? 
>>> What is the use of asking me the same thing all the time, when siri should 
>>> know that I know the command better and faster than it can respond? And 
>>> what about putting some of the phrases together, and assist in performance 
>>> driven ways, which is the one major reason why I would like an assistant as 
>>> a blind user? Wait, this bleeds into all users anyway, and google now + 
>>> alexia are taking cloud based and data centric approaches way higher. To be 
>>> fair, Apple's frameworks are increasingly better, and the sheer breadth of 
>>> things you can do with their libraries is the model they have taken, to 
>>> create an eco system where the user can become one of the earners, and 
>>> participate in Apple's success, for some, along with their own. And taking 
>>> 30% off their sales.
>>> 
>>> But the fact is that Apple has lost in not using the data available to 
>>> them, and this comes to one thing Apple distinguishes itself from the other 
>>> players: The OS and hardware setup is a help, not a listener. 
>>> Entertainment, not a commodity, like the advertising model Google or FB 
>>> take. And this is the crux of their problem, which is a societal question: 
>>> how much are you privvy to your own circle, and how much is the public 
>>> image and lifestyle? Do both agree that there are worldly matters that 
>>> require engineering, and thus pro connectivity to everything? OSX connects 
>>> to Linux, windows, and its programming language swift is now ported to 
>>> linux. Integration with python and other languages is amazing, and it is c 
>>> based. When you say Apple's interface is easy to use, it is and it 
>>> accelerates as you learn your key commands.
>>> 
>>> But in this era of A.I, where it 

Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[Scott Granados]

Simon, yes as well as dedicated hardware like the Amazon Dot and Echo.

> On Apr 23, 2017, at 6:44 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> So Sean,
> 
> This amazon alexa is available through an app for my iPhone?
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Shawn Krasniuk
> Sent: Sunday, 23 April 2017 9:47 PM
> To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
> Subject: Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital 
> assistant game
> 
> Hi Scott. I'm not Yuma but I can tell you who I think is the better AI. After 
> watching demos of the two of them, Alexa still wins hands down. Sure, with 
> Google Now, when you ask it questions, you can ask subsequent questions about 
> the topic you started with it. Alexa has a hard time with that, but she has 
> more smart devices she can connect to than Google. On a video I saw, you can 
> rectify the problem by using IFTTT, but that sounds like it could be more 
> complicated than it should be. Also, it just sounds better to call your 
> virtual assistant by a name rather than Google or Amazon, so Alexa wins there 
> too. Lastly, I can use Alexa anywhere I wish, on my Mac or on my phone using 
> Reverb and Google doesn't have anything like that yet to my knowledge besides 
> Allo, which like I said in my last message, only sends messages through text. 
> I'd rather have the app speak the messages the assistant sends automatically 
> like Alexa does in Reverb. So for me, Alexa takes it.
> 
> Shawn
> Sent From My White MacBook
> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
> 
>> On Apr 23, 2017, at 3:19 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> Wow there’s a lot of great points here.
>> 
>> I’m curious, as someone who’s heavily involved in AI who do you think is the 
>> absolute cutting edge right now outside the classified space.  Maybe you 
>> could rank a little the major publicly visible efforts like Watson verses 
>> Google verses Amazon and such.  Who makes you think wow that’s really 
>> impressive?  We know Apple in many ways is behind the times but who’s way 
>> ahead?
>> 
>> Also, do you have any published papers or anything I could read of your work 
>> you’ve impressed me with your response and I’d like to learn more about 
>> where you’re coming from.
>> 
>> Thanks
>> Scott
>> 
>> 
>>> On Apr 23, 2017, at 3:54 AM, Yuma Decaux  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I wanted to chime in for a few points:
>>> 
>>> Apple is dispersing itself a bit too much. What's next on the line? A 
>>> Lavazza partnership for a coffee machine? Or maybe some jogging shoes with 
>>> mag safe laces? Better yet, a Mars lander capsule with an enhanced version 
>>> of voice over? Wait, the latter is something they should aim for, shoot to 
>>> mars projects, not attempts at capturing consumer markets outside of what 
>>> they do best.
>>> 
>>> In terms of the A.I, as a daily A.I programmer, I'm not impressed at all. 
>>> Why does siri forget a name I call all the time when it worked until then? 
>>> What is the use of asking me the same thing all the time, when siri should 
>>> know that I know the command better and faster than it can respond? And 
>>> what about putting some of the phrases together, and assist in performance 
>>> driven ways, which is the one major reason why I would like an assistant as 
>>> a blind user? Wait, this bleeds into all users anyway, and google now + 
>>> alexia are taking cloud based and data centric approaches way higher. To be 
>>> fair, Apple's frameworks are increasingly better, and the sheer breadth of 
>>> things you can do with their libraries is the model they have taken, to 
>>> create an eco system where the user can become one of the earners, and 
>>> participate in Apple's success, for some, along with their own. And taking 
>>> 30% off their sales.
>>> 
>>> But the fact is that Apple has lost in not using the data available to 
>>> them, and this comes to one thing Apple distinguishes itself from the other 
>>> players: The OS and hardware setup is a help, not a listener. 
>>> Entertainment, not a commodity, like the advertising model Google or FB 
>>> take. And this is the crux of their problem, which is a societal question: 
>>> how much are you privvy to your own circle, and how much is the public 
>>> image and lifestyle? Do both agree that there are worldly matters that 
>>> require engineering, and thus pro connectivity to everything? OSX connects 
>>> to Linux, windows, and its programming language swift is now ported to 
>>> linux. Integration with python and other languages is amazing, and it is c 
>>> based. When you say Apple's interface is easy to use, it is and it 
>>> accelerates as you learn your key commands.
>>> 
>>> But in this era of A.I, where it faults is the assistant's 

Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[Scott Granados]

Oh I’m on the other side of that equation.  I’ve tried both and went google 
home all the way.  The upgrade / feature additions are very aggressive and I 
probably see updates twice a week, the voice recognition is unbelievably good, 
it now recognizes individual users from each other, it integrates with the 
hardware I want like Nest (so does Alexa in full disclosure) and as you 
mentioned the IFTTT option is great.  It’s nice to be able to extend your own 
features as needed.  The sound quality from the small air freshener is also 
very very good for what it is.  I like that they are also cast enabled targets 
so you can cast to them.  I’ve tried the echo and liked it, all are vastly 
better than Siri but put me down as a Google fan.

> On Apr 23, 2017, at 5:47 AM, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
> 
> Hi Scott. I'm not Yuma but I can tell you who I think is the better AI. After 
> watching demos of the two of them, Alexa still wins hands down. Sure, with 
> Google Now, when you ask it questions, you can ask subsequent questions about 
> the topic you started with it. Alexa has a hard time with that, but she has 
> more smart devices she can connect to than Google. On a video I saw, you can 
> rectify the problem by using IFTTT, but that sounds like it could be more 
> complicated than it should be. Also, it just sounds better to call your 
> virtual assistant by a name rather than Google or Amazon, so Alexa wins there 
> too. Lastly, I can use Alexa anywhere I wish, on my Mac or on my phone using 
> Reverb and Google doesn't have anything like that yet to my knowledge besides 
> Allo, which like I said in my last message, only sends messages through text. 
> I'd rather have the app speak the messages the assistant sends automatically 
> like Alexa does in Reverb. So for me, Alexa takes it.
> 
> Shawn
> Sent From My White MacBook
> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
> 
>> On Apr 23, 2017, at 3:19 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> Wow there’s a lot of great points here.
>> 
>> I’m curious, as someone who’s heavily involved in AI who do you think is the 
>> absolute cutting edge right now outside the classified space.  Maybe you 
>> could rank a little the major publicly visible efforts like Watson verses 
>> Google verses Amazon and such.  Who makes you think wow that’s really 
>> impressive?  We know Apple in many ways is behind the times but who’s way 
>> ahead?
>> 
>> Also, do you have any published papers or anything I could read of your work 
>> you’ve impressed me with your response and I’d like to learn more about 
>> where you’re coming from.
>> 
>> Thanks
>> Scott
>> 
>> 
>>> On Apr 23, 2017, at 3:54 AM, Yuma Decaux  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I wanted to chime in for a few points:
>>> 
>>> Apple is dispersing itself a bit too much. What's next on the line? A 
>>> Lavazza partnership for a coffee machine? Or maybe some jogging shoes with 
>>> mag safe laces? Better yet, a Mars lander capsule with an enhanced version 
>>> of voice over? Wait, the latter is something they should aim for, shoot to 
>>> mars projects, not attempts at capturing consumer markets outside of what 
>>> they do best.
>>> 
>>> In terms of the A.I, as a daily A.I programmer, I'm not impressed at all. 
>>> Why does siri forget a name I call all the time when it worked until then? 
>>> What is the use of asking me the same thing all the time, when siri should 
>>> know that I know the command better and faster than it can respond? And 
>>> what about putting some of the phrases together, and assist in performance 
>>> driven ways, which is the one major reason why I would like an assistant as 
>>> a blind user? Wait, this bleeds into all users anyway, and google now + 
>>> alexia are taking cloud based and data centric approaches way higher. To be 
>>> fair, Apple's frameworks are increasingly better, and the sheer breadth of 
>>> things you can do with their libraries is the model they have taken, to 
>>> create an eco system where the user can become one of the earners, and 
>>> participate in Apple's success, for some, along with their own. And taking 
>>> 30% off their sales.
>>> 
>>> But the fact is that Apple has lost in not using the data available to 
>>> them, and this comes to one thing Apple distinguishes itself from the other 
>>> players: The OS and hardware setup is a help, not a listener. 
>>> Entertainment, not a commodity, like the advertising model Google or FB 
>>> take. And this is the crux of their problem, which is a societal question: 
>>> how much are you privvy to your own circle, and how much is the public 
>>> image and lifestyle? Do both agree that there are worldly matters that 
>>> require engineering, and thus pro connectivity to everything? OSX connects 
>>> to Linux, windows, and its programming language swift is now ported to 
>>> linux. Integration 

Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[Sandi Jazmin Kruse]

Get both google and Apple, best of both worlds,?

On 4/23/17, Krister Ekstrom  wrote:
> That was what i was about to write a couple mails ago, many of those digital
> assistants have no or limited functionality outside the US. I’m not certain
> that even Google or Siri for that matter works at their fullest here in
> Sweden and then let’s not even begin to talk Samsungs new Bixby. I wonder
> when or rather if it will ever reach these cold is it latitudes?:-)
> /Krister
>
>> 23 apr. 2017 kl. 14:18 skrev David Chittenden :
>>
>> Step outside the US, and Alexa falls apart. Unlike Siri and Google, Alexa
>> does not support anything outside it's limited geographical area. This is
>> why it is able to be so much better there, it is limited in scope.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On 23/04/2017, at 20:50, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes. Just search for Reverb for Amazon Alexa.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
 On Apr 23, 2017, at 5:44 AM, Simon Fogarty 
 wrote:

 So Sean,

 This amazon alexa is available through an app for my iPhone?

 -Original Message-
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Shawn Krasniuk
 Sent: Sunday, 23 April 2017 9:47 PM
 To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
 Subject: Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital
 assistant game

 Hi Scott. I'm not Yuma but I can tell you who I think is the better AI.
 After watching demos of the two of them, Alexa still wins hands down.
 Sure, with Google Now, when you ask it questions, you can ask subsequent
 questions about the topic you started with it. Alexa has a hard time
 with that, but she has more smart devices she can connect to than
 Google. On a video I saw, you can rectify the problem by using IFTTT,
 but that sounds like it could be more complicated than it should be.
 Also, it just sounds better to call your virtual assistant by a name
 rather than Google or Amazon, so Alexa wins there too. Lastly, I can use
 Alexa anywhere I wish, on my Mac or on my phone using Reverb and Google
 doesn't have anything like that yet to my knowledge besides Allo, which
 like I said in my last message, only sends messages through text. I'd
 rather have the app speak the messages the assistant sends automatically
 like Alexa does in Reverb. So for me, Alexa takes it.

 Shawn
 Sent From My White MacBook
 Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
 Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
 Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
 Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com

> On Apr 23, 2017, at 3:19 AM, Scott Granados 
> wrote:
>
> Wow there’s a lot of great points here.
>
> I’m curious, as someone who’s heavily involved in AI who do you think
> is the absolute cutting edge right now outside the classified space.
> Maybe you could rank a little the major publicly visible efforts like
> Watson verses Google verses Amazon and such.  Who makes you think wow
> that’s really impressive?  We know Apple in many ways is behind the
> times but who’s way ahead?
>
> Also, do you have any published papers or anything I could read of your
> work you’ve impressed me with your response and I’d like to learn more
> about where you’re coming from.
>
> Thanks
> Scott
>
>
>> On Apr 23, 2017, at 3:54 AM, Yuma Decaux  wrote:
>>
>> I wanted to chime in for a few points:
>>
>> Apple is dispersing itself a bit too much. What's next on the line? A
>> Lavazza partnership for a coffee machine? Or maybe some jogging shoes
>> with mag safe laces? Better yet, a Mars lander capsule with an
>> enhanced version of voice over? Wait, the latter is something they
>> should aim for, shoot to mars projects, not attempts at capturing
>> consumer markets outside of what they do best.
>>
>> In terms of the A.I, as a daily A.I programmer, I'm not impressed at
>> all. Why does siri forget a name I call all the time when it worked
>> until then? What is the use of asking me the same thing all the time,
>> when siri should know that I know the command better and faster than
>> it can respond? And what about putting some of the phrases together,
>> and assist in performance driven ways, which is the one major reason
>> why I would like an assistant as a blind user? Wait, this bleeds into
>> all users anyway, and google now + alexia are taking cloud based and
>> data centric approaches way higher. To be fair, Apple's frameworks are
>> increasingly better, and the sheer 

Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[Krister Ekstrom]

That was what i was about to write a couple mails ago, many of those digital 
assistants have no or limited functionality outside the US. I’m not certain 
that even Google or Siri for that matter works at their fullest here in Sweden 
and then let’s not even begin to talk Samsungs new Bixby. I wonder when or 
rather if it will ever reach these cold is it latitudes?:-)
/Krister

> 23 apr. 2017 kl. 14:18 skrev David Chittenden :
> 
> Step outside the US, and Alexa falls apart. Unlike Siri and Google, Alexa 
> does not support anything outside it's limited geographical area. This is why 
> it is able to be so much better there, it is limited in scope.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 23/04/2017, at 20:50, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
>> 
>> Yes. Just search for Reverb for Amazon Alexa.
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Apr 23, 2017, at 5:44 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>> 
>>> So Sean,
>>> 
>>> This amazon alexa is available through an app for my iPhone?
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Shawn Krasniuk
>>> Sent: Sunday, 23 April 2017 9:47 PM
>>> To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
>>> Subject: Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital 
>>> assistant game
>>> 
>>> Hi Scott. I'm not Yuma but I can tell you who I think is the better AI. 
>>> After watching demos of the two of them, Alexa still wins hands down. Sure, 
>>> with Google Now, when you ask it questions, you can ask subsequent 
>>> questions about the topic you started with it. Alexa has a hard time with 
>>> that, but she has more smart devices she can connect to than Google. On a 
>>> video I saw, you can rectify the problem by using IFTTT, but that sounds 
>>> like it could be more complicated than it should be. Also, it just sounds 
>>> better to call your virtual assistant by a name rather than Google or 
>>> Amazon, so Alexa wins there too. Lastly, I can use Alexa anywhere I wish, 
>>> on my Mac or on my phone using Reverb and Google doesn't have anything like 
>>> that yet to my knowledge besides Allo, which like I said in my last 
>>> message, only sends messages through text. I'd rather have the app speak 
>>> the messages the assistant sends automatically like Alexa does in Reverb. 
>>> So for me, Alexa takes it.
>>> 
>>> Shawn
>>> Sent From My White MacBook
>>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
>>> 
 On Apr 23, 2017, at 3:19 AM, Scott Granados  
 wrote:
 
 Wow there’s a lot of great points here.
 
 I’m curious, as someone who’s heavily involved in AI who do you think is 
 the absolute cutting edge right now outside the classified space.  Maybe 
 you could rank a little the major publicly visible efforts like Watson 
 verses Google verses Amazon and such.  Who makes you think wow that’s 
 really impressive?  We know Apple in many ways is behind the times but 
 who’s way ahead?
 
 Also, do you have any published papers or anything I could read of your 
 work you’ve impressed me with your response and I’d like to learn more 
 about where you’re coming from.
 
 Thanks
 Scott
 
 
> On Apr 23, 2017, at 3:54 AM, Yuma Decaux  wrote:
> 
> I wanted to chime in for a few points:
> 
> Apple is dispersing itself a bit too much. What's next on the line? A 
> Lavazza partnership for a coffee machine? Or maybe some jogging shoes 
> with mag safe laces? Better yet, a Mars lander capsule with an enhanced 
> version of voice over? Wait, the latter is something they should aim for, 
> shoot to mars projects, not attempts at capturing consumer markets 
> outside of what they do best.
> 
> In terms of the A.I, as a daily A.I programmer, I'm not impressed at all. 
> Why does siri forget a name I call all the time when it worked until 
> then? What is the use of asking me the same thing all the time, when siri 
> should know that I know the command better and faster than it can 
> respond? And what about putting some of the phrases together, and assist 
> in performance driven ways, which is the one major reason why I would 
> like an assistant as a blind user? Wait, this bleeds into all users 
> anyway, and google now + alexia are taking cloud based and data centric 
> approaches way higher. To be fair, Apple's frameworks are increasingly 
> better, and the sheer breadth of things you can do with their libraries 
> is the model they have taken, to create an eco system where the user can 
> become one of the earners, and 

Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[David Chittenden]

Step outside the US, and Alexa falls apart. Unlike Siri and Google, Alexa does 
not support anything outside it's limited geographical area. This is why it is 
able to be so much better there, it is limited in scope.

Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +61 488 988 936
Sent from my iPhone

> On 23/04/2017, at 20:50, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
> 
> Yes. Just search for Reverb for Amazon Alexa.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 23, 2017, at 5:44 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>> 
>> So Sean,
>> 
>> This amazon alexa is available through an app for my iPhone?
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Shawn Krasniuk
>> Sent: Sunday, 23 April 2017 9:47 PM
>> To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
>> Subject: Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital 
>> assistant game
>> 
>> Hi Scott. I'm not Yuma but I can tell you who I think is the better AI. 
>> After watching demos of the two of them, Alexa still wins hands down. Sure, 
>> with Google Now, when you ask it questions, you can ask subsequent questions 
>> about the topic you started with it. Alexa has a hard time with that, but 
>> she has more smart devices she can connect to than Google. On a video I saw, 
>> you can rectify the problem by using IFTTT, but that sounds like it could be 
>> more complicated than it should be. Also, it just sounds better to call your 
>> virtual assistant by a name rather than Google or Amazon, so Alexa wins 
>> there too. Lastly, I can use Alexa anywhere I wish, on my Mac or on my phone 
>> using Reverb and Google doesn't have anything like that yet to my knowledge 
>> besides Allo, which like I said in my last message, only sends messages 
>> through text. I'd rather have the app speak the messages the assistant sends 
>> automatically like Alexa does in Reverb. So for me, Alexa takes it.
>> 
>> Shawn
>> Sent From My White MacBook
>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
>> 
>>> On Apr 23, 2017, at 3:19 AM, Scott Granados  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Wow there’s a lot of great points here.
>>> 
>>> I’m curious, as someone who’s heavily involved in AI who do you think is 
>>> the absolute cutting edge right now outside the classified space.  Maybe 
>>> you could rank a little the major publicly visible efforts like Watson 
>>> verses Google verses Amazon and such.  Who makes you think wow that’s 
>>> really impressive?  We know Apple in many ways is behind the times but 
>>> who’s way ahead?
>>> 
>>> Also, do you have any published papers or anything I could read of your 
>>> work you’ve impressed me with your response and I’d like to learn more 
>>> about where you’re coming from.
>>> 
>>> Thanks
>>> Scott
>>> 
>>> 
 On Apr 23, 2017, at 3:54 AM, Yuma Decaux  wrote:
 
 I wanted to chime in for a few points:
 
 Apple is dispersing itself a bit too much. What's next on the line? A 
 Lavazza partnership for a coffee machine? Or maybe some jogging shoes with 
 mag safe laces? Better yet, a Mars lander capsule with an enhanced version 
 of voice over? Wait, the latter is something they should aim for, shoot to 
 mars projects, not attempts at capturing consumer markets outside of what 
 they do best.
 
 In terms of the A.I, as a daily A.I programmer, I'm not impressed at all. 
 Why does siri forget a name I call all the time when it worked until then? 
 What is the use of asking me the same thing all the time, when siri should 
 know that I know the command better and faster than it can respond? And 
 what about putting some of the phrases together, and assist in performance 
 driven ways, which is the one major reason why I would like an assistant 
 as a blind user? Wait, this bleeds into all users anyway, and google now + 
 alexia are taking cloud based and data centric approaches way higher. To 
 be fair, Apple's frameworks are increasingly better, and the sheer breadth 
 of things you can do with their libraries is the model they have taken, to 
 create an eco system where the user can become one of the earners, and 
 participate in Apple's success, for some, along with their own. And taking 
 30% off their sales.
 
 But the fact is that Apple has lost in not using the data available to 
 them, and this comes to one thing Apple distinguishes itself from the 
 other players: The OS and hardware setup is a help, not a listener. 
 Entertainment, not a commodity, like the advertising model Google or FB 
 take. And this is the crux of their problem, which is a societal question: 
 how much are you privvy to your own circle, and how much is the 

Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[Shawn Krasniuk]

Yes. Just search for Reverb for Amazon Alexa.


Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 23, 2017, at 5:44 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> So Sean,
> 
> This amazon alexa is available through an app for my iPhone?
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Shawn Krasniuk
> Sent: Sunday, 23 April 2017 9:47 PM
> To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
> Subject: Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital 
> assistant game
> 
> Hi Scott. I'm not Yuma but I can tell you who I think is the better AI. After 
> watching demos of the two of them, Alexa still wins hands down. Sure, with 
> Google Now, when you ask it questions, you can ask subsequent questions about 
> the topic you started with it. Alexa has a hard time with that, but she has 
> more smart devices she can connect to than Google. On a video I saw, you can 
> rectify the problem by using IFTTT, but that sounds like it could be more 
> complicated than it should be. Also, it just sounds better to call your 
> virtual assistant by a name rather than Google or Amazon, so Alexa wins there 
> too. Lastly, I can use Alexa anywhere I wish, on my Mac or on my phone using 
> Reverb and Google doesn't have anything like that yet to my knowledge besides 
> Allo, which like I said in my last message, only sends messages through text. 
> I'd rather have the app speak the messages the assistant sends automatically 
> like Alexa does in Reverb. So for me, Alexa takes it.
> 
> Shawn
> Sent From My White MacBook
> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
> 
>> On Apr 23, 2017, at 3:19 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> Wow there’s a lot of great points here.
>> 
>> I’m curious, as someone who’s heavily involved in AI who do you think is the 
>> absolute cutting edge right now outside the classified space.  Maybe you 
>> could rank a little the major publicly visible efforts like Watson verses 
>> Google verses Amazon and such.  Who makes you think wow that’s really 
>> impressive?  We know Apple in many ways is behind the times but who’s way 
>> ahead?
>> 
>> Also, do you have any published papers or anything I could read of your work 
>> you’ve impressed me with your response and I’d like to learn more about 
>> where you’re coming from.
>> 
>> Thanks
>> Scott
>> 
>> 
>>> On Apr 23, 2017, at 3:54 AM, Yuma Decaux  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I wanted to chime in for a few points:
>>> 
>>> Apple is dispersing itself a bit too much. What's next on the line? A 
>>> Lavazza partnership for a coffee machine? Or maybe some jogging shoes with 
>>> mag safe laces? Better yet, a Mars lander capsule with an enhanced version 
>>> of voice over? Wait, the latter is something they should aim for, shoot to 
>>> mars projects, not attempts at capturing consumer markets outside of what 
>>> they do best.
>>> 
>>> In terms of the A.I, as a daily A.I programmer, I'm not impressed at all. 
>>> Why does siri forget a name I call all the time when it worked until then? 
>>> What is the use of asking me the same thing all the time, when siri should 
>>> know that I know the command better and faster than it can respond? And 
>>> what about putting some of the phrases together, and assist in performance 
>>> driven ways, which is the one major reason why I would like an assistant as 
>>> a blind user? Wait, this bleeds into all users anyway, and google now + 
>>> alexia are taking cloud based and data centric approaches way higher. To be 
>>> fair, Apple's frameworks are increasingly better, and the sheer breadth of 
>>> things you can do with their libraries is the model they have taken, to 
>>> create an eco system where the user can become one of the earners, and 
>>> participate in Apple's success, for some, along with their own. And taking 
>>> 30% off their sales.
>>> 
>>> But the fact is that Apple has lost in not using the data available to 
>>> them, and this comes to one thing Apple distinguishes itself from the other 
>>> players: The OS and hardware setup is a help, not a listener. 
>>> Entertainment, not a commodity, like the advertising model Google or FB 
>>> take. And this is the crux of their problem, which is a societal question: 
>>> how much are you privvy to your own circle, and how much is the public 
>>> image and lifestyle? Do both agree that there are worldly matters that 
>>> require engineering, and thus pro connectivity to everything? OSX connects 
>>> to Linux, windows, and its programming language swift is now ported to 
>>> linux. Integration with python and other languages is amazing, and it is c 
>>> based. When you say Apple's interface is easy to use, it is and it 
>>> accelerates as you learn your key commands.
>>> 
>>> But in this era of A.I, where it faults is the assistant's 

RE: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[Simon Fogarty]

So Sean,

This amazon alexa is available through an app for my iPhone?

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Shawn Krasniuk
Sent: Sunday, 23 April 2017 9:47 PM
To: 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
Subject: Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant 
game

Hi Scott. I'm not Yuma but I can tell you who I think is the better AI. After 
watching demos of the two of them, Alexa still wins hands down. Sure, with 
Google Now, when you ask it questions, you can ask subsequent questions about 
the topic you started with it. Alexa has a hard time with that, but she has 
more smart devices she can connect to than Google. On a video I saw, you can 
rectify the problem by using IFTTT, but that sounds like it could be more 
complicated than it should be. Also, it just sounds better to call your virtual 
assistant by a name rather than Google or Amazon, so Alexa wins there too. 
Lastly, I can use Alexa anywhere I wish, on my Mac or on my phone using Reverb 
and Google doesn't have anything like that yet to my knowledge besides Allo, 
which like I said in my last message, only sends messages through text. I'd 
rather have the app speak the messages the assistant sends automatically like 
Alexa does in Reverb. So for me, Alexa takes it.

Shawn
Sent From My White MacBook
Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com

> On Apr 23, 2017, at 3:19 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> Wow there’s a lot of great points here.
> 
> I’m curious, as someone who’s heavily involved in AI who do you think is the 
> absolute cutting edge right now outside the classified space.  Maybe you 
> could rank a little the major publicly visible efforts like Watson verses 
> Google verses Amazon and such.  Who makes you think wow that’s really 
> impressive?  We know Apple in many ways is behind the times but who’s way 
> ahead?
> 
> Also, do you have any published papers or anything I could read of your work 
> you’ve impressed me with your response and I’d like to learn more about where 
> you’re coming from.
> 
> Thanks
> Scott
> 
> 
>> On Apr 23, 2017, at 3:54 AM, Yuma Decaux  wrote:
>> 
>> I wanted to chime in for a few points:
>> 
>> Apple is dispersing itself a bit too much. What's next on the line? A 
>> Lavazza partnership for a coffee machine? Or maybe some jogging shoes with 
>> mag safe laces? Better yet, a Mars lander capsule with an enhanced version 
>> of voice over? Wait, the latter is something they should aim for, shoot to 
>> mars projects, not attempts at capturing consumer markets outside of what 
>> they do best.
>> 
>> In terms of the A.I, as a daily A.I programmer, I'm not impressed at all. 
>> Why does siri forget a name I call all the time when it worked until then? 
>> What is the use of asking me the same thing all the time, when siri should 
>> know that I know the command better and faster than it can respond? And what 
>> about putting some of the phrases together, and assist in performance driven 
>> ways, which is the one major reason why I would like an assistant as a blind 
>> user? Wait, this bleeds into all users anyway, and google now + alexia are 
>> taking cloud based and data centric approaches way higher. To be fair, 
>> Apple's frameworks are increasingly better, and the sheer breadth of things 
>> you can do with their libraries is the model they have taken, to create an 
>> eco system where the user can become one of the earners, and participate in 
>> Apple's success, for some, along with their own. And taking 30% off their 
>> sales.
>> 
>> But the fact is that Apple has lost in not using the data available to them, 
>> and this comes to one thing Apple distinguishes itself from the other 
>> players: The OS and hardware setup is a help, not a listener. Entertainment, 
>> not a commodity, like the advertising model Google or FB take. And this is 
>> the crux of their problem, which is a societal question: how much are you 
>> privvy to your own circle, and how much is the public image and lifestyle? 
>> Do both agree that there are worldly matters that require engineering, and 
>> thus pro connectivity to everything? OSX connects to Linux, windows, and its 
>> programming language swift is now ported to linux. Integration with python 
>> and other languages is amazing, and it is c based. When you say Apple's 
>> interface is easy to use, it is and it accelerates as you learn your key 
>> commands.
>> 
>> But in this era of A.I, where it faults is the assistant's capacity to 
>> really assist, not be a gimmick with far few too many things to offer, 
>> despite how it markets it, which I find a bit insulting at times, knowing 
>> what the world of A.I is currently able to do, in academic circles I 
>> frequent daily.
>> 
>> 
>> 

Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[Shawn Krasniuk]

Hi Scott. I'm not Yuma but I can tell you who I think is the better AI. After 
watching demos of the two of them, Alexa still wins hands down. Sure, with 
Google Now, when you ask it questions, you can ask subsequent questions about 
the topic you started with it. Alexa has a hard time with that, but she has 
more smart devices she can connect to than Google. On a video I saw, you can 
rectify the problem by using IFTTT, but that sounds like it could be more 
complicated than it should be. Also, it just sounds better to call your virtual 
assistant by a name rather than Google or Amazon, so Alexa wins there too. 
Lastly, I can use Alexa anywhere I wish, on my Mac or on my phone using Reverb 
and Google doesn't have anything like that yet to my knowledge besides Allo, 
which like I said in my last message, only sends messages through text. I'd 
rather have the app speak the messages the assistant sends automatically like 
Alexa does in Reverb. So for me, Alexa takes it.

Shawn
Sent From My White MacBook
Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com

> On Apr 23, 2017, at 3:19 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> Wow there’s a lot of great points here.
> 
> I’m curious, as someone who’s heavily involved in AI who do you think is the 
> absolute cutting edge right now outside the classified space.  Maybe you 
> could rank a little the major publicly visible efforts like Watson verses 
> Google verses Amazon and such.  Who makes you think wow that’s really 
> impressive?  We know Apple in many ways is behind the times but who’s way 
> ahead?
> 
> Also, do you have any published papers or anything I could read of your work 
> you’ve impressed me with your response and I’d like to learn more about where 
> you’re coming from.
> 
> Thanks
> Scott
> 
> 
>> On Apr 23, 2017, at 3:54 AM, Yuma Decaux  wrote:
>> 
>> I wanted to chime in for a few points:
>> 
>> Apple is dispersing itself a bit too much. What's next on the line? A 
>> Lavazza partnership for a coffee machine? Or maybe some jogging shoes with 
>> mag safe laces? Better yet, a Mars lander capsule with an enhanced version 
>> of voice over? Wait, the latter is something they should aim for, shoot to 
>> mars projects, not attempts at capturing consumer markets outside of what 
>> they do best.
>> 
>> In terms of the A.I, as a daily A.I programmer, I'm not impressed at all. 
>> Why does siri forget a name I call all the time when it worked until then? 
>> What is the use of asking me the same thing all the time, when siri should 
>> know that I know the command better and faster than it can respond? And what 
>> about putting some of the phrases together, and assist in performance driven 
>> ways, which is the one major reason why I would like an assistant as a blind 
>> user? Wait, this bleeds into all users anyway, and google now + alexia are 
>> taking cloud based and data centric approaches way higher. To be fair, 
>> Apple's frameworks are increasingly better, and the sheer breadth of things 
>> you can do with their libraries is the model they have taken, to create an 
>> eco system where the user can become one of the earners, and participate in 
>> Apple's success, for some, along with their own. And taking 30% off their 
>> sales.
>> 
>> But the fact is that Apple has lost in not using the data available to them, 
>> and this comes to one thing Apple distinguishes itself from the other 
>> players: The OS and hardware setup is a help, not a listener. Entertainment, 
>> not a commodity, like the advertising model Google or FB take. And this is 
>> the crux of their problem, which is a societal question: how much are you 
>> privvy to your own circle, and how much is the public image and lifestyle? 
>> Do both agree that there are worldly matters that require engineering, and 
>> thus pro connectivity to everything? OSX connects to Linux, windows, and its 
>> programming language swift is now ported to linux. Integration with python 
>> and other languages is amazing, and it is c based. When you say Apple's 
>> interface is easy to use, it is and it accelerates as you learn your key 
>> commands.
>> 
>> But in this era of A.I, where it faults is the assistant's capacity to 
>> really assist, not be a gimmick with far few too many things to offer, 
>> despite how it markets it, which I find a bit insulting at times, knowing 
>> what the world of A.I is currently able to do, in academic circles I 
>> frequent daily.
>> 
>> 
>> Disgruntled but happy
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 23/04/2017, at 4:11 PM, David Chittenden  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Amazon's speech recognition assistant. Works well in the US and some places 
>>> in Europe.
>>> 
>>> Kind regards,
>>> 
>>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>>> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On 23/04/2017, at 

Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[Scott Granados]

Wow there’s a lot of great points here.

I’m curious, as someone who’s heavily involved in AI who do you think is the 
absolute cutting edge right now outside the classified space.  Maybe you could 
rank a little the major publicly visible efforts like Watson verses Google 
verses Amazon and such.  Who makes you think wow that’s really impressive?  We 
know Apple in many ways is behind the times but who’s way ahead?

Also, do you have any published papers or anything I could read of your work 
you’ve impressed me with your response and I’d like to learn more about where 
you’re coming from.

Thanks
Scott


> On Apr 23, 2017, at 3:54 AM, Yuma Decaux  wrote:
> 
> I wanted to chime in for a few points:
> 
> Apple is dispersing itself a bit too much. What's next on the line? A Lavazza 
> partnership for a coffee machine? Or maybe some jogging shoes with mag safe 
> laces? Better yet, a Mars lander capsule with an enhanced version of voice 
> over? Wait, the latter is something they should aim for, shoot to mars 
> projects, not attempts at capturing consumer markets outside of what they do 
> best.
> 
> In terms of the A.I, as a daily A.I programmer, I'm not impressed at all. Why 
> does siri forget a name I call all the time when it worked until then? What 
> is the use of asking me the same thing all the time, when siri should know 
> that I know the command better and faster than it can respond? And what about 
> putting some of the phrases together, and assist in performance driven ways, 
> which is the one major reason why I would like an assistant as a blind user? 
> Wait, this bleeds into all users anyway, and google now + alexia are taking 
> cloud based and data centric approaches way higher. To be fair, Apple's 
> frameworks are increasingly better, and the sheer breadth of things you can 
> do with their libraries is the model they have taken, to create an eco system 
> where the user can become one of the earners, and participate in Apple's 
> success, for some, along with their own. And taking 30% off their sales.
> 
> But the fact is that Apple has lost in not using the data available to them, 
> and this comes to one thing Apple distinguishes itself from the other 
> players: The OS and hardware setup is a help, not a listener. Entertainment, 
> not a commodity, like the advertising model Google or FB take. And this is 
> the crux of their problem, which is a societal question: how much are you 
> privvy to your own circle, and how much is the public image and lifestyle? Do 
> both agree that there are worldly matters that require engineering, and thus 
> pro connectivity to everything? OSX connects to Linux, windows, and its 
> programming language swift is now ported to linux. Integration with python 
> and other languages is amazing, and it is c based. When you say Apple's 
> interface is easy to use, it is and it accelerates as you learn your key 
> commands.
> 
> But in this era of A.I, where it faults is the assistant's capacity to really 
> assist, not be a gimmick with far few too many things to offer, despite how 
> it markets it, which I find a bit insulting at times, knowing what the world 
> of A.I is currently able to do, in academic circles I frequent daily.
> 
> 
> Disgruntled but happy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 23/04/2017, at 4:11 PM, David Chittenden  wrote:
>> 
>> Amazon's speech recognition assistant. Works well in the US and some places 
>> in Europe.
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> 
>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 23/04/2017, at 10:44, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Sorry but what is this Alexa?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Shawn Krasniuk
>>> Sent: Sunday, 23 April 2017 6:33 AM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital 
>>> assistant game
>>> 
>>> Hi Scott. While I'm a loyal Apple customer, I completely agree with you 
>>> about Siri. Siri is one of the reasons I bought my Amazon Echo Dot. Alexa 
>>> is just a better assistant than Siri is. I mean, with the Dot, Alexa gets 
>>> better and better every day with the number of skills that get added each 
>>> day. With Siri, you have to wait until Apple updates her with every iOS 
>>> major release. This was acceptible in 2011, but when Amazon and Google are 
>>> beating you in the AI department in 2017, maybe its time that Apple take 
>>> notice. I'll still buy Apple products and use Siri to make calls, text 
>>> people, and find out what song I'm listening to on the radio, but that's 
>>> all she's good for.
>>> 
>>> Shawn
>>> Sent From My White MacBook
>>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>>> Facetime: 

Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[Scott Granados]

Hi Simon, Alexa is Amazon’s digital assistant, their answer to Google home.  
It’s the voice behind the echo and the amazon TV etc.


> On Apr 22, 2017, at 8:44 PM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Sorry but what is this Alexa?
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Shawn Krasniuk
> Sent: Sunday, 23 April 2017 6:33 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital 
> assistant game
> 
> Hi Scott. While I'm a loyal Apple customer, I completely agree with you about 
> Siri. Siri is one of the reasons I bought my Amazon Echo Dot. Alexa is just a 
> better assistant than Siri is. I mean, with the Dot, Alexa gets better and 
> better every day with the number of skills that get added each day. With 
> Siri, you have to wait until Apple updates her with every iOS major release. 
> This was acceptible in 2011, but when Amazon and Google are beating you in 
> the AI department in 2017, maybe its time that Apple take notice. I'll still 
> buy Apple products and use Siri to make calls, text people, and find out what 
> song I'm listening to on the radio, but that's all she's good for.
> 
> Shawn
> Sent From My White MacBook
> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
> P.S. Scott, that was a good article about the Google Home. It's just too bad 
> that I can't talk to the Google Assistant on my phone or my computer like I 
> can with Alexa using Reverb. I know that you can talk to her with Google 
> Allo, but with that app she doesn't speak her answers back to you. For that, 
> Alexa still wins. Also, you can talk to her in the Google Search app, but 
> that functionality only works for searches. I just wanna have fun with it, 
> not search for things.
> 
> 
>> On Apr 22, 2017, at 5:27 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> So, Apple brought us Siri and we had hi hopes but they’ve let it fall flat 
>> on it’s face and are being schooled by Amazon and especially google.  Let’s 
>> look at the announcements recently from the 3 companies.  Alexa continues to 
>> make strides with additional integration across multiple platforms and 
>> expanded languages and ability to parse complex sentences,  Google takes 
>> things even farther allowing their units to distinguish between users by 
>> their voices, provides tight integration with hundreds of data sources and 
>> literally adds features on a biweekly basis, and Apple, what’s Apple 
>> announcing.  Siri now can read your what’s app messages.  (Big freaking 
>> whoop Apple).  Google announces multiple voice recognition and the addition 
>> of real neural net technology and Apple can now read text messages from a 
>> 3rd party app.  They have to do better.  The iPhone is such a good phone in 
>> every way but then you’re stuck with Siri.  You are letting us down Apple, 
>> you’re not innovating any more and you’re going to see folks like my self 
>> for example jump off the Apple band wagon and squarely on to the Google 
>> Pixel band wagon if you don’t get your act together.  Here’s a link to the 
>> big announcement AKA Apple’s continued stagnation.
>> 
>> http://www.redmondpie.com/siri-on-ios-10.3-can-now-read-out-new-whatsapp-messages-for-you/
>> 
>> --
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> --
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> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
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> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your 

Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[Yuma Decaux]

I wanted to chime in for a few points:

Apple is dispersing itself a bit too much. What's next on the line? A Lavazza 
partnership for a coffee machine? Or maybe some jogging shoes with mag safe 
laces? Better yet, a Mars lander capsule with an enhanced version of voice 
over? Wait, the latter is something they should aim for, shoot to mars 
projects, not attempts at capturing consumer markets outside of what they do 
best. 

In terms of the A.I, as a daily A.I programmer, I'm not impressed at all. Why 
does siri forget a name I call all the time when it worked until then? What is 
the use of asking me the same thing all the time, when siri should know that I 
know the command better and faster than it can respond? And what about putting 
some of the phrases together, and assist in performance driven ways, which is 
the one major reason why I would like an assistant as a blind user? Wait, this 
bleeds into all users anyway, and google now + alexia are taking cloud based 
and data centric approaches way higher. To be fair, Apple's frameworks are 
increasingly better, and the sheer breadth of things you can do with their 
libraries is the model they have taken, to create an eco system where the user 
can become one of the earners, and participate in Apple's success, for some, 
along with their own. And taking 30% off their sales.

But the fact is that Apple has lost in not using the data available to them, 
and this comes to one thing Apple distinguishes itself from the other players: 
The OS and hardware setup is a help, not a listener. Entertainment, not a 
commodity, like the advertising model Google or FB take. And this is the crux 
of their problem, which is a societal question: how much are you privvy to your 
own circle, and how much is the public image and lifestyle? Do both agree that 
there are worldly matters that require engineering, and thus pro connectivity 
to everything? OSX connects to Linux, windows, and its programming language 
swift is now ported to linux. Integration with python and other languages is 
amazing, and it is c based. When you say Apple's interface is easy to use, it 
is and it accelerates as you learn your key commands.

But in this era of A.I, where it faults is the assistant's capacity to really 
assist, not be a gimmick with far few too many things to offer, despite how it 
markets it, which I find a bit insulting at times, knowing what the world of 
A.I is currently able to do, in academic circles I frequent daily.


Disgruntled but happy 





 



> On 23/04/2017, at 4:11 PM, David Chittenden  wrote:
> 
> Amazon's speech recognition assistant. Works well in the US and some places 
> in Europe.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 23/04/2017, at 10:44, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>> 
>> Sorry but what is this Alexa?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Shawn Krasniuk
>> Sent: Sunday, 23 April 2017 6:33 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital 
>> assistant game
>> 
>> Hi Scott. While I'm a loyal Apple customer, I completely agree with you 
>> about Siri. Siri is one of the reasons I bought my Amazon Echo Dot. Alexa is 
>> just a better assistant than Siri is. I mean, with the Dot, Alexa gets 
>> better and better every day with the number of skills that get added each 
>> day. With Siri, you have to wait until Apple updates her with every iOS 
>> major release. This was acceptible in 2011, but when Amazon and Google are 
>> beating you in the AI department in 2017, maybe its time that Apple take 
>> notice. I'll still buy Apple products and use Siri to make calls, text 
>> people, and find out what song I'm listening to on the radio, but that's all 
>> she's good for.
>> 
>> Shawn
>> Sent From My White MacBook
>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
>> P.S. Scott, that was a good article about the Google Home. It's just too bad 
>> that I can't talk to the Google Assistant on my phone or my computer like I 
>> can with Alexa using Reverb. I know that you can talk to her with Google 
>> Allo, but with that app she doesn't speak her answers back to you. For that, 
>> Alexa still wins. Also, you can talk to her in the Google Search app, but 
>> that functionality only works for searches. I just wanna have fun with it, 
>> not search for things.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Apr 22, 2017, at 5:27 AM, Scott Granados  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> So, Apple brought us Siri and we had hi hopes but they’ve let it fall flat 
>>> on it’s face and are being schooled by Amazon and especially google.  Let’s 
>>> look at the announcements recently from the 3 

Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[David Chittenden]

Amazon's speech recognition assistant. Works well in the US and some places in 
Europe.

Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +61 488 988 936
Sent from my iPhone

> On 23/04/2017, at 10:44, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Sorry but what is this Alexa?
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Shawn Krasniuk
> Sent: Sunday, 23 April 2017 6:33 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital 
> assistant game
> 
> Hi Scott. While I'm a loyal Apple customer, I completely agree with you about 
> Siri. Siri is one of the reasons I bought my Amazon Echo Dot. Alexa is just a 
> better assistant than Siri is. I mean, with the Dot, Alexa gets better and 
> better every day with the number of skills that get added each day. With 
> Siri, you have to wait until Apple updates her with every iOS major release. 
> This was acceptible in 2011, but when Amazon and Google are beating you in 
> the AI department in 2017, maybe its time that Apple take notice. I'll still 
> buy Apple products and use Siri to make calls, text people, and find out what 
> song I'm listening to on the radio, but that's all she's good for.
> 
> Shawn
> Sent From My White MacBook
> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
> P.S. Scott, that was a good article about the Google Home. It's just too bad 
> that I can't talk to the Google Assistant on my phone or my computer like I 
> can with Alexa using Reverb. I know that you can talk to her with Google 
> Allo, but with that app she doesn't speak her answers back to you. For that, 
> Alexa still wins. Also, you can talk to her in the Google Search app, but 
> that functionality only works for searches. I just wanna have fun with it, 
> not search for things.
> 
> 
>> On Apr 22, 2017, at 5:27 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> So, Apple brought us Siri and we had hi hopes but they’ve let it fall flat 
>> on it’s face and are being schooled by Amazon and especially google.  Let’s 
>> look at the announcements recently from the 3 companies.  Alexa continues to 
>> make strides with additional integration across multiple platforms and 
>> expanded languages and ability to parse complex sentences,  Google takes 
>> things even farther allowing their units to distinguish between users by 
>> their voices, provides tight integration with hundreds of data sources and 
>> literally adds features on a biweekly basis, and Apple, what’s Apple 
>> announcing.  Siri now can read your what’s app messages.  (Big freaking 
>> whoop Apple).  Google announces multiple voice recognition and the addition 
>> of real neural net technology and Apple can now read text messages from a 
>> 3rd party app.  They have to do better.  The iPhone is such a good phone in 
>> every way but then you’re stuck with Siri.  You are letting us down Apple, 
>> you’re not innovating any more and you’re going to see folks like my self 
>> for example jump off the Apple band wagon and squarely on to the Google 
>> Pixel band wagon if you don’t get your act together.  Here’s a link to the 
>> big announcement AKA Apple’s continued stagnation.
>> 
>> http://www.redmondpie.com/siri-on-ios-10.3-can-now-read-out-new-whatsapp-messages-for-you/
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
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>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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> list.
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> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You 

RE: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[Simon Fogarty]

Sorry but what is this Alexa?



-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Shawn Krasniuk
Sent: Sunday, 23 April 2017 6:33 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant 
game

Hi Scott. While I'm a loyal Apple customer, I completely agree with you about 
Siri. Siri is one of the reasons I bought my Amazon Echo Dot. Alexa is just a 
better assistant than Siri is. I mean, with the Dot, Alexa gets better and 
better every day with the number of skills that get added each day. With Siri, 
you have to wait until Apple updates her with every iOS major release. This was 
acceptible in 2011, but when Amazon and Google are beating you in the AI 
department in 2017, maybe its time that Apple take notice. I'll still buy Apple 
products and use Siri to make calls, text people, and find out what song I'm 
listening to on the radio, but that's all she's good for.

Shawn
Sent From My White MacBook
Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
P.S. Scott, that was a good article about the Google Home. It's just too bad 
that I can't talk to the Google Assistant on my phone or my computer like I can 
with Alexa using Reverb. I know that you can talk to her with Google Allo, but 
with that app she doesn't speak her answers back to you. For that, Alexa still 
wins. Also, you can talk to her in the Google Search app, but that 
functionality only works for searches. I just wanna have fun with it, not 
search for things.


> On Apr 22, 2017, at 5:27 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> So, Apple brought us Siri and we had hi hopes but they’ve let it fall flat on 
> it’s face and are being schooled by Amazon and especially google.  Let’s look 
> at the announcements recently from the 3 companies.  Alexa continues to make 
> strides with additional integration across multiple platforms and expanded 
> languages and ability to parse complex sentences,  Google takes things even 
> farther allowing their units to distinguish between users by their voices, 
> provides tight integration with hundreds of data sources and literally adds 
> features on a biweekly basis, and Apple, what’s Apple announcing.  Siri now 
> can read your what’s app messages.  (Big freaking whoop Apple).  Google 
> announces multiple voice recognition and the addition of real neural net 
> technology and Apple can now read text messages from a 3rd party app.  They 
> have to do better.  The iPhone is such a good phone in every way but then 
> you’re stuck with Siri.  You are letting us down Apple, you’re not innovating 
> any more and you’re going to see folks like my self for example jump off the 
> Apple band wagon and squarely on to the Google Pixel band wagon if you don’t 
> get your act together.  Here’s a link to the big announcement AKA Apple’s 
> continued stagnation.
> 
> http://www.redmondpie.com/siri-on-ios-10.3-can-now-read-out-new-whatsapp-messages-for-you/
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
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> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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RE: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[Simon Fogarty]

I kind of agree

They appear to have lost all innovation,

There is no resembalence of looking forward to the next big feature

If anything they seem to be copying what other do rather than finding the next 
thing themselves.

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Scott Granados
Sent: Sunday, 23 April 2017 2:48 AM
To: MacVisionaries 'Chris Blouch' via 
Subject: Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant 
game

Ray, if Tim Cook were a decent CEO Apple wouldn’t be in this problem.  Here’s a 
guy who has totally rested on Steve Job’s laurels.  Let’s think about it, 
exactly how much has the iPhone changed since Job’s death.  Siri has completely 
stagnated, the shape is basically unchanged, the video processor hasn’t been 
changed in several versions, the Modems are now and have been consistently 
behind the times, and the big change is to add the Fingerprint censor to the 
rest of the product line?  Really?  Dropping the phone jack is the only brassy 
thing that Apple has done since 2012.
Siri bothers me the most though because Apple was first and had a 
great idea that they squandered in my opinion.  I will give them credit on 
developing the A10 processor which is a good thing (and the previous apple 
series processors) but let’s face it, that part of the operation is actually 
farmed out to another company.  They need to breathe new life in to the design 
team and stop doing stupid things like buying karaoke car pool, Lyft and stop 
buying stolen headphone designs from Dr Dre who ripped them off from Monster 
cable’s designer.
I’m not sure I’ll bother writing Tim Cook but I may go to the next 
stock holders meeting.  The iMac is at least a chance to redeem themselves and 
it looks like they may, here’s hoping but it’s not that hard to design good 
laptops and PCs.  They really just need to get it in gear.



On Apr 22, 2017, at 8:30 AM, Ray Foret jr 
> wrote:

Well, Scot, it’s all well and good for you to say that on here:  but, don’t you 
think your message might carry more weight if you wrote Cook himself?

tc...@apple.com


Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
built-in

Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,

Still a very happy Comcast XFinity Voice Guidance, Mac, Verizon Wireless 
iPhone7+ and Apple TV user!

On Apr 22, 2017, at 5:27 AM, Scott Granados 
> wrote:

So, Apple brought us Siri and we had hi hopes but they’ve let it fall flat on 
it’s face and are being schooled by Amazon and especially google.  Let’s look 
at the announcements recently from the 3 companies.  Alexa continues to make 
strides with additional integration across multiple platforms and expanded 
languages and ability to parse complex sentences,  Google takes things even 
farther allowing their units to distinguish between users by their voices, 
provides tight integration with hundreds of data sources and literally adds 
features on a biweekly basis, and Apple, what’s Apple announcing.  Siri now can 
read your what’s app messages.  (Big freaking whoop Apple).  Google announces 
multiple voice recognition and the addition of real neural net technology and 
Apple can now read text messages from a 3rd party app.  They have to do better. 
 The iPhone is such a good phone in every way but then you’re stuck with Siri.  
You are letting us down Apple, you’re not innovating any more and you’re going 
to see folks like my self for example jump off the Apple band wagon and 
squarely on to the Google Pixel band wagon if you don’t get your act together.  
Here’s a link to the big announcement AKA Apple’s continued stagnation.

http://www.redmondpie.com/siri-on-ios-10.3-can-now-read-out-new-whatsapp-messages-for-you/

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Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[Shawn Krasniuk]

Hi Scott. While I'm a loyal Apple customer, I completely agree with you about 
Siri. Siri is one of the reasons I bought my Amazon Echo Dot. Alexa is just a 
better assistant than Siri is. I mean, with the Dot, Alexa gets better and 
better every day with the number of skills that get added each day. With Siri, 
you have to wait until Apple updates her with every iOS major release. This was 
acceptible in 2011, but when Amazon and Google are beating you in the AI 
department in 2017, maybe its time that Apple take notice. I'll still buy Apple 
products and use Siri to make calls, text people, and find out what song I'm 
listening to on the radio, but that's all she's good for.

Shawn
Sent From My White MacBook
Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
P.S. Scott, that was a good article about the Google Home. It's just too bad 
that I can't talk to the Google Assistant on my phone or my computer like I can 
with Alexa using Reverb. I know that you can talk to her with Google Allo, but 
with that app she doesn't speak her answers back to you. For that, Alexa still 
wins. Also, you can talk to her in the Google Search app, but that 
functionality only works for searches. I just wanna have fun with it, not 
search for things.


> On Apr 22, 2017, at 5:27 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> So, Apple brought us Siri and we had hi hopes but they’ve let it fall flat on 
> it’s face and are being schooled by Amazon and especially google.  Let’s look 
> at the announcements recently from the 3 companies.  Alexa continues to make 
> strides with additional integration across multiple platforms and expanded 
> languages and ability to parse complex sentences,  Google takes things even 
> farther allowing their units to distinguish between users by their voices, 
> provides tight integration with hundreds of data sources and literally adds 
> features on a biweekly basis, and Apple, what’s Apple announcing.  Siri now 
> can read your what’s app messages.  (Big freaking whoop Apple).  Google 
> announces multiple voice recognition and the addition of real neural net 
> technology and Apple can now read text messages from a 3rd party app.  They 
> have to do better.  The iPhone is such a good phone in every way but then 
> you’re stuck with Siri.  You are letting us down Apple, you’re not innovating 
> any more and you’re going to see folks like my self for example jump off the 
> Apple band wagon and squarely on to the Google Pixel band wagon if you don’t 
> get your act together.  Here’s a link to the big announcement AKA Apple’s 
> continued stagnation.
> 
> http://www.redmondpie.com/siri-on-ios-10.3-can-now-read-out-new-whatsapp-messages-for-you/
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
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> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[E.T.]

   (smiles) And let Steve Jobs rest in peace. I know I know, we the end 
user, always know best.


From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 4/22/2017 7:48 AM, Scott Granados wrote:

A dead frog maybe.  They forgot to hop.


On Apr 22, 2017, at 9:46 AM, E.T.  wrote:

  Sounds like the typical leap frog game.

From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
 "God for you is where you sweep away all the
 mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
 our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
 and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 4/22/2017 3:27 AM, Scott Granados wrote:

So, Apple brought us Siri and we had hi hopes but they’ve let it fall flat on 
it’s face and are being schooled by Amazon and especially google.  Let’s look 
at the announcements recently from the 3 companies.  Alexa continues to make 
strides with additional integration across multiple platforms and expanded 
languages and ability to parse complex sentences,  Google takes things even 
farther allowing their units to distinguish between users by their voices, 
provides tight integration with hundreds of data sources and literally adds 
features on a biweekly basis, and Apple, what’s Apple announcing.  Siri now can 
read your what’s app messages.  (Big freaking whoop Apple).  Google announces 
multiple voice recognition and the addition of real neural net technology and 
Apple can now read text messages from a 3rd party app.  They have to do better. 
 The iPhone is such a good phone in every way but then you’re stuck with Siri.  
You are letting us down Apple, you’re not innovating any more and you’re going 
to see folks like my self for example jump off the Apple band wagon and 
squarely on to the Google Pixel band wagon if you don’t get your act together.  
Here’s a link to the big announcement AKA Apple’s continued stagnation.

http://www.redmondpie.com/siri-on-ios-10.3-can-now-read-out-new-whatsapp-messages-for-you/



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Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[Scott Granados]

Oh no argument at all Ray, you have a good suggestion, I may just do that.  I 
also may just go to the stock holders meeting.  Let’s cross our fingers and 
hope the next phone and series of iMacs are a slam dunk.


> On Apr 22, 2017, at 10:59 AM, Ray Foret jr  wrote:
> 
> I’m not arguing your points:  still, I say that if you and the rest write 
> directly to Cook at the address I gave, he will see what you have to say.  I 
> know this because he does in fact see a lot of the e-mail that goes to that 
> address and in some cases, actually responds to it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
> built-in
> 
> Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,
> 
> Still a very happy Comcast XFinity Voice Guidance, Mac, Verizon Wireless 
> iPhone7+ and Apple TV user!
> 
>> On Apr 22, 2017, at 9:48 AM, Scott Granados > > wrote:
>> 
>> Ray, if Tim Cook were a decent CEO Apple wouldn’t be in this problem.  
>> Here’s a guy who has totally rested on Steve Job’s laurels.  Let’s think 
>> about it, exactly how much has the iPhone changed since Job’s death.  Siri 
>> has completely stagnated, the shape is basically unchanged, the video 
>> processor hasn’t been changed in several versions, the Modems are now and 
>> have been consistently behind the times, and the big change is to add the 
>> Fingerprint censor to the rest of the product line?  Really?  Dropping the 
>> phone jack is the only brassy thing that Apple has done since 2012.
>>  Siri bothers me the most though because Apple was first and had a great 
>> idea that they squandered in my opinion.  I will give them credit on 
>> developing the A10 processor which is a good thing (and the previous apple 
>> series processors) but let’s face it, that part of the operation is actually 
>> farmed out to another company.  They need to breathe new life in to the 
>> design team and stop doing stupid things like buying karaoke car pool, Lyft 
>> and stop buying stolen headphone designs from Dr Dre who ripped them off 
>> from Monster cable’s designer.
>>  I’m not sure I’ll bother writing Tim Cook but I may go to the next 
>> stock holders meeting.  The iMac is at least a chance to redeem themselves 
>> and it looks like they may, here’s hoping but it’s not that hard to design 
>> good laptops and PCs.  They really just need to get it in gear.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Apr 22, 2017, at 8:30 AM, Ray Foret jr >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Well, Scot, it’s all well and good for you to say that on here:  but, don’t 
>>> you think your message might carry more weight if you wrote Cook himself?
>>> 
>>> tc...@apple.com 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
>>> built-in
>>> 
>>> Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,
>>> 
>>> Still a very happy Comcast XFinity Voice Guidance, Mac, Verizon Wireless 
>>> iPhone7+ and Apple TV user!
>>> 
 On Apr 22, 2017, at 5:27 AM, Scott Granados > wrote:
 
 So, Apple brought us Siri and we had hi hopes but they’ve let it fall flat 
 on it’s face and are being schooled by Amazon and especially google.  
 Let’s look at the announcements recently from the 3 companies.  Alexa 
 continues to make strides with additional integration across multiple 
 platforms and expanded languages and ability to parse complex sentences,  
 Google takes things even farther allowing their units to distinguish 
 between users by their voices, provides tight integration with hundreds of 
 data sources and literally adds features on a biweekly basis, and Apple, 
 what’s Apple announcing.  Siri now can read your what’s app messages.  
 (Big freaking whoop Apple).  Google announces multiple voice recognition 
 and the addition of real neural net technology and Apple can now read text 
 messages from a 3rd party app.  They have to do better.  The iPhone is 
 such a good phone in every way but then you’re stuck with Siri.  You are 
 letting us down Apple, you’re not innovating any more and you’re going to 
 see folks like my self for example jump off the Apple band wagon and 
 squarely on to the Google Pixel band wagon if you don’t get your act 
 together.  Here’s a link to the big announcement AKA Apple’s continued 
 stagnation.
 
 http://www.redmondpie.com/siri-on-ios-10.3-can-now-read-out-new-whatsapp-messages-for-you/
  
 
 
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 The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
 Visionaries list.
 
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Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[Ray Foret jr]

I’m not arguing your points:  still, I say that if you and the rest write 
directly to Cook at the address I gave, he will see what you have to say.  I 
know this because he does in fact see a lot of the e-mail that goes to that 
address and in some cases, actually responds to it.


Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
built-in

Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,

Still a very happy Comcast XFinity Voice Guidance, Mac, Verizon Wireless 
iPhone7+ and Apple TV user!

> On Apr 22, 2017, at 9:48 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> Ray, if Tim Cook were a decent CEO Apple wouldn’t be in this problem.  Here’s 
> a guy who has totally rested on Steve Job’s laurels.  Let’s think about it, 
> exactly how much has the iPhone changed since Job’s death.  Siri has 
> completely stagnated, the shape is basically unchanged, the video processor 
> hasn’t been changed in several versions, the Modems are now and have been 
> consistently behind the times, and the big change is to add the Fingerprint 
> censor to the rest of the product line?  Really?  Dropping the phone jack is 
> the only brassy thing that Apple has done since 2012.
>   Siri bothers me the most though because Apple was first and had a great 
> idea that they squandered in my opinion.  I will give them credit on 
> developing the A10 processor which is a good thing (and the previous apple 
> series processors) but let’s face it, that part of the operation is actually 
> farmed out to another company.  They need to breathe new life in to the 
> design team and stop doing stupid things like buying karaoke car pool, Lyft 
> and stop buying stolen headphone designs from Dr Dre who ripped them off from 
> Monster cable’s designer.
>   I’m not sure I’ll bother writing Tim Cook but I may go to the next 
> stock holders meeting.  The iMac is at least a chance to redeem themselves 
> and it looks like they may, here’s hoping but it’s not that hard to design 
> good laptops and PCs.  They really just need to get it in gear.
> 
> 
>  
>> On Apr 22, 2017, at 8:30 AM, Ray Foret jr > > wrote:
>> 
>> Well, Scot, it’s all well and good for you to say that on here:  but, don’t 
>> you think your message might carry more weight if you wrote Cook himself?
>> 
>> tc...@apple.com 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
>> built-in
>> 
>> Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,
>> 
>> Still a very happy Comcast XFinity Voice Guidance, Mac, Verizon Wireless 
>> iPhone7+ and Apple TV user!
>> 
>>> On Apr 22, 2017, at 5:27 AM, Scott Granados >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> So, Apple brought us Siri and we had hi hopes but they’ve let it fall flat 
>>> on it’s face and are being schooled by Amazon and especially google.  Let’s 
>>> look at the announcements recently from the 3 companies.  Alexa continues 
>>> to make strides with additional integration across multiple platforms and 
>>> expanded languages and ability to parse complex sentences,  Google takes 
>>> things even farther allowing their units to distinguish between users by 
>>> their voices, provides tight integration with hundreds of data sources and 
>>> literally adds features on a biweekly basis, and Apple, what’s Apple 
>>> announcing.  Siri now can read your what’s app messages.  (Big freaking 
>>> whoop Apple).  Google announces multiple voice recognition and the addition 
>>> of real neural net technology and Apple can now read text messages from a 
>>> 3rd party app.  They have to do better.  The iPhone is such a good phone in 
>>> every way but then you’re stuck with Siri.  You are letting us down Apple, 
>>> you’re not innovating any more and you’re going to see folks like my self 
>>> for example jump off the Apple band wagon and squarely on to the Google 
>>> Pixel band wagon if you don’t get your act together.  Here’s a link to the 
>>> big announcement AKA Apple’s continued stagnation.
>>> 
>>> http://www.redmondpie.com/siri-on-ios-10.3-can-now-read-out-new-whatsapp-messages-for-you/
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
>>>  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com 
>>>  and your owner is Cara 
>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list 

Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[Scott Granados]

A dead frog maybe.  They forgot to hop.

> On Apr 22, 2017, at 9:46 AM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
>   Sounds like the typical leap frog game.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> On 4/22/2017 3:27 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
>> So, Apple brought us Siri and we had hi hopes but they’ve let it fall flat 
>> on it’s face and are being schooled by Amazon and especially google.  Let’s 
>> look at the announcements recently from the 3 companies.  Alexa continues to 
>> make strides with additional integration across multiple platforms and 
>> expanded languages and ability to parse complex sentences,  Google takes 
>> things even farther allowing their units to distinguish between users by 
>> their voices, provides tight integration with hundreds of data sources and 
>> literally adds features on a biweekly basis, and Apple, what’s Apple 
>> announcing.  Siri now can read your what’s app messages.  (Big freaking 
>> whoop Apple).  Google announces multiple voice recognition and the addition 
>> of real neural net technology and Apple can now read text messages from a 
>> 3rd party app.  They have to do better.  The iPhone is such a good phone in 
>> every way but then you’re stuck with Siri.  You are letting us down Apple, 
>> you’re not innovating any more and you’re going to see folks like my self 
>> for example jump off the Apple band wagon and squarely on to the Google 
>> Pixel band wagon if you don’t get your act together.  Here’s a link to the 
>> big announcement AKA Apple’s continued stagnation.
>> 
>> http://www.redmondpie.com/siri-on-ios-10.3-can-now-read-out-new-whatsapp-messages-for-you/
>> 
> 
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Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[Scott Granados]

Ray, if Tim Cook were a decent CEO Apple wouldn’t be in this problem.  Here’s a 
guy who has totally rested on Steve Job’s laurels.  Let’s think about it, 
exactly how much has the iPhone changed since Job’s death.  Siri has completely 
stagnated, the shape is basically unchanged, the video processor hasn’t been 
changed in several versions, the Modems are now and have been consistently 
behind the times, and the big change is to add the Fingerprint censor to the 
rest of the product line?  Really?  Dropping the phone jack is the only brassy 
thing that Apple has done since 2012.
Siri bothers me the most though because Apple was first and had a great 
idea that they squandered in my opinion.  I will give them credit on developing 
the A10 processor which is a good thing (and the previous apple series 
processors) but let’s face it, that part of the operation is actually farmed 
out to another company.  They need to breathe new life in to the design team 
and stop doing stupid things like buying karaoke car pool, Lyft and stop buying 
stolen headphone designs from Dr Dre who ripped them off from Monster cable’s 
designer.
I’m not sure I’ll bother writing Tim Cook but I may go to the next 
stock holders meeting.  The iMac is at least a chance to redeem themselves and 
it looks like they may, here’s hoping but it’s not that hard to design good 
laptops and PCs.  They really just need to get it in gear.



> On Apr 22, 2017, at 8:30 AM, Ray Foret jr  wrote:
> 
> Well, Scot, it’s all well and good for you to say that on here:  but, don’t 
> you think your message might carry more weight if you wrote Cook himself?
> 
> tc...@apple.com 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
> built-in
> 
> Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,
> 
> Still a very happy Comcast XFinity Voice Guidance, Mac, Verizon Wireless 
> iPhone7+ and Apple TV user!
> 
>> On Apr 22, 2017, at 5:27 AM, Scott Granados > > wrote:
>> 
>> So, Apple brought us Siri and we had hi hopes but they’ve let it fall flat 
>> on it’s face and are being schooled by Amazon and especially google.  Let’s 
>> look at the announcements recently from the 3 companies.  Alexa continues to 
>> make strides with additional integration across multiple platforms and 
>> expanded languages and ability to parse complex sentences,  Google takes 
>> things even farther allowing their units to distinguish between users by 
>> their voices, provides tight integration with hundreds of data sources and 
>> literally adds features on a biweekly basis, and Apple, what’s Apple 
>> announcing.  Siri now can read your what’s app messages.  (Big freaking 
>> whoop Apple).  Google announces multiple voice recognition and the addition 
>> of real neural net technology and Apple can now read text messages from a 
>> 3rd party app.  They have to do better.  The iPhone is such a good phone in 
>> every way but then you’re stuck with Siri.  You are letting us down Apple, 
>> you’re not innovating any more and you’re going to see folks like my self 
>> for example jump off the Apple band wagon and squarely on to the Google 
>> Pixel band wagon if you don’t get your act together.  Here’s a link to the 
>> big announcement AKA Apple’s continued stagnation.
>> 
>> http://www.redmondpie.com/siri-on-ios-10.3-can-now-read-out-new-whatsapp-messages-for-you/
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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> 
> 
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Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[E.T.]

   Sounds like the typical leap frog game.

From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 4/22/2017 3:27 AM, Scott Granados wrote:

So, Apple brought us Siri and we had hi hopes but they’ve let it fall flat on 
it’s face and are being schooled by Amazon and especially google.  Let’s look 
at the announcements recently from the 3 companies.  Alexa continues to make 
strides with additional integration across multiple platforms and expanded 
languages and ability to parse complex sentences,  Google takes things even 
farther allowing their units to distinguish between users by their voices, 
provides tight integration with hundreds of data sources and literally adds 
features on a biweekly basis, and Apple, what’s Apple announcing.  Siri now can 
read your what’s app messages.  (Big freaking whoop Apple).  Google announces 
multiple voice recognition and the addition of real neural net technology and 
Apple can now read text messages from a 3rd party app.  They have to do better. 
 The iPhone is such a good phone in every way but then you’re stuck with Siri.  
You are letting us down Apple, you’re not innovating any more and you’re going 
to see folks like my self for example jump off the Apple band wagon and 
squarely on to the Google Pixel band wagon if you don’t get your act together.  
Here’s a link to the big announcement AKA Apple’s continued stagnation.

http://www.redmondpie.com/siri-on-ios-10.3-can-now-read-out-new-whatsapp-messages-for-you/



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Re: And here's an example of why Apple is losing the digital assistant game

[Ray Foret jr]

Well, Scot, it’s all well and good for you to say that on here:  but, don’t you 
think your message might carry more weight if you wrote Cook himself?

tc...@apple.com


Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
built-in

Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,

Still a very happy Comcast XFinity Voice Guidance, Mac, Verizon Wireless 
iPhone7+ and Apple TV user!

> On Apr 22, 2017, at 5:27 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> So, Apple brought us Siri and we had hi hopes but they’ve let it fall flat on 
> it’s face and are being schooled by Amazon and especially google.  Let’s look 
> at the announcements recently from the 3 companies.  Alexa continues to make 
> strides with additional integration across multiple platforms and expanded 
> languages and ability to parse complex sentences,  Google takes things even 
> farther allowing their units to distinguish between users by their voices, 
> provides tight integration with hundreds of data sources and literally adds 
> features on a biweekly basis, and Apple, what’s Apple announcing.  Siri now 
> can read your what’s app messages.  (Big freaking whoop Apple).  Google 
> announces multiple voice recognition and the addition of real neural net 
> technology and Apple can now read text messages from a 3rd party app.  They 
> have to do better.  The iPhone is such a good phone in every way but then 
> you’re stuck with Siri.  You are letting us down Apple, you’re not innovating 
> any more and you’re going to see folks like my self for example jump off the 
> Apple band wagon and squarely on to the Google Pixel band wagon if you don’t 
> get your act together.  Here’s a link to the big announcement AKA Apple’s 
> continued stagnation.
> 
> http://www.redmondpie.com/siri-on-ios-10.3-can-now-read-out-new-whatsapp-messages-for-you/
> 
> -- 
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> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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