Re: Today's 30 minutes with VoiceOver
Hi Phil, Yes I have attempted to complete the tutorial three times. I can't get VoiceOver to work in it either. It beeps at me. On Sunday, January 12, 2014 9:21:55 PM UTC-5, phil halton wrote: have you tried to learn VoiceOver basics by opening the VoiceOver help menu and selecting the quick start tutorial? Once you've worked through that tutorial you can read through the getting started guide? Me thinks you're making it far more complicated than it is. Honestly, start at the beginning, learn VO basics by taking the quick start tutorial, then move on to reading systematically through the getting started guide which is essentially a webpage in Safari that covers every aspect of VoiceOver - it's really quite thorough and easy to read. The best advice I ever got when I first started learning to use a mac was to forget everything I thought I knew and just start at the beginning. Also, take a deep breathe and keep things simple - it's not so hard if people like me and others here can master it, then so can you. On Jan 12, 2014, at 3:58 PM, April Brown aprilbr...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: Hi Regina, I thought about just trying to learn to use it in Mail. However, when I need it most right now, is the late afternoon, When I want to relax, the screen is too blurry to see, and some nice Internet surfing would be a good way to relax for twenty minutes. While learning something new I will need full time before long. I feel like someone took a 2,000 piece jigsaw puzzle, took out all the corners,edges, and half the remaining pieces, and handed it to me to guess how the rest goes together I've even tried to find a list that just focuses on web commands. And they are so full of terms I have no clue what they are, that it's probably useless to me without a definition sheet. How can I guess what the command is for if it's name, and description is something unintelligible to me? I'm off to eat dinner and close my eye. Good night, and I'll try again tomorrow. Another way, perhaps. On Sunday, January 12, 2014 3:39:38 PM UTC-5, regina alvarado wrote: April, best command I have learned myself at this point is command Q to close everything and command W to close windows. A few days ago I believe Sarai sent an article from Mac World. If it did anything for me, it made the layout of the screen much more understandable. I even learned what Time Machine was, though still don't know how to use. I could resend if you like. I think perhaps you are trying to do too much all at once. Maybe you should focus on mail and get used to getting into it and reading and writing email until you are comfortable. You may even want to tackle only starting the machine and getting on the desktop which has another name I forgot. Don't try to learn all commands at once. Pick something and become really reliable with it. What I am learning is that a lot of times the commands will be the same in different places and apps. By the way, I wear hearing aids and have had to tweak my voices to find something I can understand. I also don't have a very good memory so little chunks of info is all I can handle until cemented into long term memory. I thought the Mac was very different from iPhone, but I am finding there is a lot of similarity too. I know you can do this. I just will not let it defeat me. Took me a long time to learn Windows so it will take a while to change operating systems. However, we can do this! reggie and Allegra On Jan 12, 2014, at 2:57 PM, April Brown aprilbr...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Donna, I am trying to learn VoiceOver. Not successfully. I still have some vision, some days. I now have a headache. Thanks to Ray Foret, I can now open a web page, I just still can't figure out how to get it to read it without clicking where I need it to go. I have to learn to learn this before I am completely blind. Or perhaps, it would be better for me to not, and use a Braille display instead. However, I will likely retain some hearing at least another five to ten years. I still don't under stand half the words on these manuals. It's Greek and Chinese mixed. I'm, glad there are people out there who have someone to show them how, and the order to do things in. I can't figure it out. And with poor memory, I'll need it written to ever duplicate it. On Sunday, January 12, 2014 2:52:42 PM UTC-5, Donna wrote: April, I can't even imagine what approach you're trying to take here, or why you're taking it. In the nearly four years I've been using a Mac, I don't think I've *ever turned Voiceover off. You don't need to clear anything. Best, Donna On Jan 12, 2014, at 1:34 PM, April Brown aprilbr...@gmail.com wrote: The reason for turning VoiceOver off is to clear it, so when I open it back up, it will be back at the beginning, and maybe I can manage to figure out the steps to
Re: Today's 30 minutes with VoiceOver
Hi Shawn, Thanks. I do have Skype. I am going to try a couple of different things over this week, and thankfully a few people have offered to help. If this doesn't work, maybe I need the program checked. On Sunday, January 12, 2014 9:46:44 PM UTC-5, Shawn AKA BBS wrote: Hi April. I may be of some help. I have two options for you because you say you want one-on-one training. If you have Skype, you can add me to Skype and I'll be happy to teach you the basics to Voiceover. I have a friend on here that I've taught how to use the Mac and it helped her greatly. The other option is a website but it's not the cheapest option. You can go to www.blindaccesstraining.com and request for one-on-one training there. I hope you'll take into consideration all the options I've told you. -- Shawn Sent From My White MacBook -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Today's 30 minutes with VoiceOver
Hi April. Well if you feel comfortable, you can add me to Skype and I'll do my best to help you as well. My Skype name is bbstheblindrapper. -- Shawn Sent From My White MacBook -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Today's 30 minutes with VoiceOver
Hi April, It seems to me that you might be pressing incorrect key combinations when trying to use VoiceOver. Either that, or you have a physical problem with your keyboard that is affecting the activation of the Control and/or Option keys. There’s not really much that should have happened software-wise that would explain your issues. Two things to try, if your keyboard is an Apple keyboard, and you have four keys to the left of the space bar, then the furthest left key is the FN key, and moving right will be the ctrl key, then the Option key and finally the cmd (Command) key. If your keyboard has only three keys to the left of the spacebar, then the FN key is elsewhere on the keyboard and those three keys are the ctrl key at the far left, then the Option key followed by the cmd (Command) key. When we mention pressing VO or the VO keys, then you need to press the ctrl and option simultaneously and whatever other keys are needed. If you are using a non-Apple keyboard, then things could be a little different. Another thing to do would be to use VoiceOver in Keyboard Help mode. Press your VO keys along with the “k” key and VO will announce “Starting Keyboard Help”. Now, when you press the various keys on the keyboard, VoiceOver will announce what the key is and if you press ctrl-option along with a specific key, then VO will announce the function of that combination. Press the Escape key to exit Keyboard Help mode. Lastly, the Web-Router is like a web related Item Chooser. That is, pressing VO-u, brings up the Web-Router, then you can navigate left or right to get lists of Links, Visited Links, Fields and so on all related to the web page you are on. HTH. Later… Tim Kilburn Fort McMurray, AB Canada On Jan 13, 2014, at 4:17 AM, April Brown aprilbrownwr...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Shawn, Thanks. I do have Skype. I am going to try a couple of different things over this week, and thankfully a few people have offered to help. If this doesn't work, maybe I need the program checked. On Sunday, January 12, 2014 9:46:44 PM UTC-5, Shawn AKA BBS wrote: Hi April. I may be of some help. I have two options for you because you say you want one-on-one training. If you have Skype, you can add me to Skype and I'll be happy to teach you the basics to Voiceover. I have a friend on here that I've taught how to use the Mac and it helped her greatly. The other option is a website but it's not the cheapest option. You can go to www.blindaccesstraining.com and request for one-on-one training there. I hope you'll take into consideration all the options I've told you. -- Shawn Sent From My White MacBook -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Today's 30 minutes with VoiceOver
That only means that you're pressing a wrong key combination. You have to listen, learn (trial and error sometimes), and think about what you're doing. And, stay calm and focused at the same time - the tutorial is as simple as it gets, so if you quit that your chances for success are going to be hampered quite a bit. So, when VO beeps at you, ask yourself what you're trying to do and what you might be doing wrong, Remember and use your basic VO navigation keystrokes to get around the screen, and get ready to have a success or two - building confidence in your ability to work this thing. Everyone else here has done it and we're not geniuses, believe me! . On Jan 13, 2014, at 6:15 AM, April Brown aprilbrownwr...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Phil, Yes I have attempted to complete the tutorial three times. I can't get VoiceOver to work in it either. It beeps at me. On Sunday, January 12, 2014 9:21:55 PM UTC-5, phil halton wrote: have you tried to learn VoiceOver basics by opening the VoiceOver help menu and selecting the quick start tutorial? Once you've worked through that tutorial you can read through the getting started guide? Me thinks you're making it far more complicated than it is. Honestly, start at the beginning, learn VO basics by taking the quick start tutorial, then move on to reading systematically through the getting started guide which is essentially a webpage in Safari that covers every aspect of VoiceOver - it's really quite thorough and easy to read. The best advice I ever got when I first started learning to use a mac was to forget everything I thought I knew and just start at the beginning. Also, take a deep breathe and keep things simple - it's not so hard if people like me and others here can master it, then so can you. On Jan 12, 2014, at 3:58 PM, April Brown aprilbr...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Regina, I thought about just trying to learn to use it in Mail. However, when I need it most right now, is the late afternoon, When I want to relax, the screen is too blurry to see, and some nice Internet surfing would be a good way to relax for twenty minutes. While learning something new I will need full time before long. I feel like someone took a 2,000 piece jigsaw puzzle, took out all the corners,edges, and half the remaining pieces, and handed it to me to guess how the rest goes together I've even tried to find a list that just focuses on web commands. And they are so full of terms I have no clue what they are, that it's probably useless to me without a definition sheet. How can I guess what the command is for if it's name, and description is something unintelligible to me? I'm off to eat dinner and close my eye. Good night, and I'll try again tomorrow. Another way, perhaps. On Sunday, January 12, 2014 3:39:38 PM UTC-5, regina alvarado wrote: April, best command I have learned myself at this point is command Q to close everything and command W to close windows. A few days ago I believe Sarai sent an article from Mac World. If it did anything for me, it made the layout of the screen much more understandable. I even learned what Time Machine was, though still don't know how to use. I could resend if you like. I think perhaps you are trying to do too much all at once. Maybe you should focus on mail and get used to getting into it and reading and writing email until you are comfortable. You may even want to tackle only starting the machine and getting on the desktop which has another name I forgot. Don't try to learn all commands at once. Pick something and become really reliable with it. What I am learning is that a lot of times the commands will be the same in different places and apps. By the way, I wear hearing aids and have had to tweak my voices to find something I can understand. I also don't have a very good memory so little chunks of info is all I can handle until cemented into long term memory. I thought the Mac was very different from iPhone, but I am finding there is a lot of similarity too. I know you can do this. I just will not let it defeat me. Took me a long time to learn Windows so it will take a while to change operating systems. However, we can do this! reggie and Allegra On Jan 12, 2014, at 2:57 PM, April Brown aprilbr...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Donna, I am trying to learn VoiceOver. Not successfully. I still have some vision, some days. I now have a headache. Thanks to Ray Foret, I can now open a web page, I just still can't figure out how to get it to read it without clicking where I need it to go. I have to learn to learn this before I am completely blind. Or perhaps, it would be better for me to not, and use a Braille display instead. However, I will likely retain some hearing at least another five to ten years. I still don't under stand half the words on these manuals. It's Greek and Chinese mixed.
Today's 30 minutes with VoiceOver
I opened Safari. I turned VoiceOver on. After a dozen tries, I managed to get it onto the Bookmarks. Somehow, as I was transferring my notes to a Pages document, it crashed, and a low, low, grumbling male voice started speaking. I turned off VoiceOver, closed Safari, and tried again. Another dozen tries, and I never did get it back on the Bookmarks bar to an actual bookmark. The one time I did, it wouldn't click on it, it highlighted and wanted to change it. Huh? So, I closed and turned it all off again. Then, I opened Safari back up. Opened up a web page, and turned VoiceOver back on. Again it got stuck in the menu, and would not get to content. At least, unlike in Firefox, I can click on the region I need read to me, and it will then work. That's my 30 minutes of trying to open a webpage today. Back to writing. And you wonder why I need step by step directions, and not just a random list. So far, to get it on Safari, I have: Step 1: Open Safari Step 2: Command, F5 to start VoiceOver Step 1: Control, Option, Down arrow from the menu to the bookmarks. And yet it doesn't quiet work, as it doesn't go the list of bookmarks. It did once. And where did this creepy male voice come from that keeps interrupting? I can't comprehend low tones. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Today's 30 minutes with VoiceOver
April, First, you are needlessly making far too much work for yourself all for nothing. Why do you insist you must turn Voice OVer off every time you get out of Safari. This is quite frankly, unnecessary. Also, the procedure you are using to try to open bookmarks is completely incorrect. First, leave Voice OVer on. DO, NOT, turn it off. Here’s how to get in to book marks. 1. Open Safari. 2. Now, press VO+m to open the menu structure. 3. Now, press b for book marks. 4. Now, arrow down in to this menu, and, when ever you hear a book mark folder you want to get in to, press right arrow to expand it. Want to edit your book Marks? Do this. 1. Open safari. 2. Press Cmd+Option+b. That gets you in to the edit book marks window. You should know enough by now to take it from there. Sent from my Mac, the only computer with full accessibility for the blind built-in! Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray, still a very happy Mac and Iphone 5 user! On Jan 12, 2014, at 1:21 PM, April Brown aprilbrownwr...@gmail.com wrote: I opened Safari. I turned VoiceOver on. After a dozen tries, I managed to get it onto the Bookmarks. Somehow, as I was transferring my notes to a Pages document, it crashed, and a low, low, grumbling male voice started speaking. I turned off VoiceOver, closed Safari, and tried again. Another dozen tries, and I never did get it back on the Bookmarks bar to an actual bookmark. The one time I did, it wouldn't click on it, it highlighted and wanted to change it. Huh? So, I closed and turned it all off again. Then, I opened Safari back up. Opened up a web page, and turned VoiceOver back on. Again it got stuck in the menu, and would not get to content. At least, unlike in Firefox, I can click on the region I need read to me, and it will then work. That's my 30 minutes of trying to open a webpage today. Back to writing. And you wonder why I need step by step directions, and not just a random list. So far, to get it on Safari, I have: Step 1: Open Safari Step 2: Command, F5 to start VoiceOver Step 1: Control, Option, Down arrow from the menu to the bookmarks. And yet it doesn't quiet work, as it doesn't go the list of bookmarks. It did once. And where did this creepy male voice come from that keeps interrupting? I can't comprehend low tones. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Today's 30 minutes with VoiceOver
The reason for turning VoiceOver off is to clear it, so when I open it back up, it will be back at the beginning, and maybe I can manage to figure out the steps to opening a web page from the bookmarks. I know it's incorrect. I haven't found directions anywhere. I just have multiple lists of commands, and no idea what order to put them in. It's a giant jigsaw puzzle. I try what you suggest. Thanks, April . On Sunday, January 12, 2014 2:29:48 PM UTC-5, Ray Foret jr wrote: April, First, you are needlessly making far too much work for yourself all for nothing. Why do you insist you must turn Voice OVer off every time you get out of Safari. This is quite frankly, unnecessary. Also, the procedure you are using to try to open bookmarks is completely incorrect. First, leave Voice OVer on. DO, NOT, turn it off. Here’s how to get in to book marks. 1. Open Safari. 2. Now, press VO+m to open the menu structure. 3. Now, press b for book marks. 4. Now, arrow down in to this menu, and, when ever you hear a book mark folder you want to get in to, press right arrow to expand it. Want to edit your book Marks? Do this. 1. Open safari. 2. Press Cmd+Option+b. That gets you in to the edit book marks window. You should know enough by now to take it from there. Sent from my Mac, the only computer with full accessibility for the blind built-in! Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray, still a very happy Mac and Iphone 5 user! On Jan 12, 2014, at 1:21 PM, April Brown aprilbr...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: I opened Safari. I turned VoiceOver on. After a dozen tries, I managed to get it onto the Bookmarks. Somehow, as I was transferring my notes to a Pages document, it crashed, and a low, low, grumbling male voice started speaking. I turned off VoiceOver, closed Safari, and tried again. Another dozen tries, and I never did get it back on the Bookmarks bar to an actual bookmark. The one time I did, it wouldn't click on it, it highlighted and wanted to change it. Huh? So, I closed and turned it all off again. Then, I opened Safari back up. Opened up a web page, and turned VoiceOver back on. Again it got stuck in the menu, and would not get to content. At least, unlike in Firefox, I can click on the region I need read to me, and it will then work. That's my 30 minutes of trying to open a webpage today. Back to writing. And you wonder why I need step by step directions, and not just a random list. So far, to get it on Safari, I have: Step 1: Open Safari Step 2: Command, F5 to start VoiceOver Step 1: Control, Option, Down arrow from the menu to the bookmarks. And yet it doesn't quiet work, as it doesn't go the list of bookmarks. It did once. And where did this creepy male voice come from that keeps interrupting? I can't comprehend low tones. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionarie...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to macvisi...@googlegroups.comjavascript: . Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Today's 30 minutes with VoiceOver
April, I can't even imagine what approach you're trying to take here, or why you're taking it. In the nearly four years I've been using a Mac, I don't think I've *ever turned Voiceover off. You don't need to clear anything. Best, Donna On Jan 12, 2014, at 1:34 PM, April Brown aprilbrownwr...@gmail.com wrote: The reason for turning VoiceOver off is to clear it, so when I open it back up, it will be back at the beginning, and maybe I can manage to figure out the steps to opening a web page from the bookmarks. I know it's incorrect. I haven't found directions anywhere. I just have multiple lists of commands, and no idea what order to put them in. It's a giant jigsaw puzzle. I try what you suggest. Thanks, April . On Sunday, January 12, 2014 2:29:48 PM UTC-5, Ray Foret jr wrote: April, First, you are needlessly making far too much work for yourself all for nothing. Why do you insist you must turn Voice OVer off every time you get out of Safari. This is quite frankly, unnecessary. Also, the procedure you are using to try to open bookmarks is completely incorrect. First, leave Voice OVer on. DO, NOT, turn it off. Here’s how to get in to book marks. 1. Open Safari. 2. Now, press VO+m to open the menu structure. 3. Now, press b for book marks. 4. Now, arrow down in to this menu, and, when ever you hear a book mark folder you want to get in to, press right arrow to expand it. Want to edit your book Marks? Do this. 1. Open safari. 2. Press Cmd+Option+b. That gets you in to the edit book marks window. You should know enough by now to take it from there. Sent from my Mac, the only computer with full accessibility for the blind built-in! Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray, still a very happy Mac and Iphone 5 user! On Jan 12, 2014, at 1:21 PM, April Brown aprilbr...@gmail.com wrote: I opened Safari. I turned VoiceOver on. After a dozen tries, I managed to get it onto the Bookmarks. Somehow, as I was transferring my notes to a Pages document, it crashed, and a low, low, grumbling male voice started speaking. I turned off VoiceOver, closed Safari, and tried again. Another dozen tries, and I never did get it back on the Bookmarks bar to an actual bookmark. The one time I did, it wouldn't click on it, it highlighted and wanted to change it. Huh? So, I closed and turned it all off again. Then, I opened Safari back up. Opened up a web page, and turned VoiceOver back on. Again it got stuck in the menu, and would not get to content. At least, unlike in Firefox, I can click on the region I need read to me, and it will then work. That's my 30 minutes of trying to open a webpage today. Back to writing. And you wonder why I need step by step directions, and not just a random list. So far, to get it on Safari, I have: Step 1: Open Safari Step 2: Command, F5 to start VoiceOver Step 1: Control, Option, Down arrow from the menu to the bookmarks. And yet it doesn't quiet work, as it doesn't go the list of bookmarks. It did once. And where did this creepy male voice come from that keeps interrupting? I can't comprehend low tones. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionarie...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisi...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Today's 30 minutes with VoiceOver
Hi, April, It sounds like you very possibly could very much benefit from individual instruction. If you have an Apple Store in your area, you might find out if the folks there can refer you to someone. Or you can call Apple’s accessibility number for referrals. I am not saying this because we don’t want to help you. I’m thinking that it’s sort of like the person who constantly gets lost and never remembers how the route is corrected, because each error is different. Not to mention that it’s a fairly steep learning curve, and it’s always beneficial to have a consistent method of doing things, especially as a beginner. I don’t know where you’re located, but here’s the Apple accessibility number: 1-877-204-3930 US only. Also, I’m sure there are folks on this list who can give one-on-one instruction for using the Mac. this is just a suggestion. HtH, Teresa Slow down; you'll get there faster. On Jan 12, 2014, at 11:34 AM, April Brown aprilbrownwr...@gmail.com wrote: The reason for turning VoiceOver off is to clear it, so when I open it back up, it will be back at the beginning, and maybe I can manage to figure out the steps to opening a web page from the bookmarks. I know it's incorrect. I haven't found directions anywhere. I just have multiple lists of commands, and no idea what order to put them in. It's a giant jigsaw puzzle. I try what you suggest. Thanks, April . On Sunday, January 12, 2014 2:29:48 PM UTC-5, Ray Foret jr wrote: April, First, you are needlessly making far too much work for yourself all for nothing. Why do you insist you must turn Voice OVer off every time you get out of Safari. This is quite frankly, unnecessary. Also, the procedure you are using to try to open bookmarks is completely incorrect. First, leave Voice OVer on. DO, NOT, turn it off. Here’s how to get in to book marks. 1. Open Safari. 2. Now, press VO+m to open the menu structure. 3. Now, press b for book marks. 4. Now, arrow down in to this menu, and, when ever you hear a book mark folder you want to get in to, press right arrow to expand it. Want to edit your book Marks? Do this. 1. Open safari. 2. Press Cmd+Option+b. That gets you in to the edit book marks window. You should know enough by now to take it from there. Sent from my Mac, the only computer with full accessibility for the blind built-in! Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray, still a very happy Mac and Iphone 5 user! On Jan 12, 2014, at 1:21 PM, April Brown aprilbr...@gmail.com wrote: I opened Safari. I turned VoiceOver on. After a dozen tries, I managed to get it onto the Bookmarks. Somehow, as I was transferring my notes to a Pages document, it crashed, and a low, low, grumbling male voice started speaking. I turned off VoiceOver, closed Safari, and tried again. Another dozen tries, and I never did get it back on the Bookmarks bar to an actual bookmark. The one time I did, it wouldn't click on it, it highlighted and wanted to change it. Huh? So, I closed and turned it all off again. Then, I opened Safari back up. Opened up a web page, and turned VoiceOver back on. Again it got stuck in the menu, and would not get to content. At least, unlike in Firefox, I can click on the region I need read to me, and it will then work. That's my 30 minutes of trying to open a webpage today. Back to writing. And you wonder why I need step by step directions, and not just a random list. So far, to get it on Safari, I have: Step 1: Open Safari Step 2: Command, F5 to start VoiceOver Step 1: Control, Option, Down arrow from the menu to the bookmarks. And yet it doesn't quiet work, as it doesn't go the list of bookmarks. It did once. And where did this creepy male voice come from that keeps interrupting? I can't comprehend low tones. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionarie...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisi...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to
Re: Today's 30 minutes with VoiceOver
Hi Donna, I am trying to learn VoiceOver. Not successfully. I still have some vision, some days. I now have a headache. Thanks to Ray Foret, I can now open a web page, I just still can't figure out how to get it to read it without clicking where I need it to go. I have to learn to learn this before I am completely blind. Or perhaps, it would be better for me to not, and use a Braille display instead. However, I will likely retain some hearing at least another five to ten years. I still don't under stand half the words on these manuals. It's Greek and Chinese mixed. I'm, glad there are people out there who have someone to show them how, and the order to do things in. I can't figure it out. And with poor memory, I'll need it written to ever duplicate it. On Sunday, January 12, 2014 2:52:42 PM UTC-5, Donna wrote: April, I can't even imagine what approach you're trying to take here, or why you're taking it. In the nearly four years I've been using a Mac, I don't think I've *ever turned Voiceover off. You don't need to clear anything. Best, Donna On Jan 12, 2014, at 1:34 PM, April Brown aprilbr...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: The reason for turning VoiceOver off is to clear it, so when I open it back up, it will be back at the beginning, and maybe I can manage to figure out the steps to opening a web page from the bookmarks. I know it's incorrect. I haven't found directions anywhere. I just have multiple lists of commands, and no idea what order to put them in. It's a giant jigsaw puzzle. I try what you suggest. Thanks, April . On Sunday, January 12, 2014 2:29:48 PM UTC-5, Ray Foret jr wrote: April, First, you are needlessly making far too much work for yourself all for nothing. Why do you insist you must turn Voice OVer off every time you get out of Safari. This is quite frankly, unnecessary. Also, the procedure you are using to try to open bookmarks is completely incorrect. First, leave Voice OVer on. DO, NOT, turn it off. Here’s how to get in to book marks. 1. Open Safari. 2. Now, press VO+m to open the menu structure. 3. Now, press b for book marks. 4. Now, arrow down in to this menu, and, when ever you hear a book mark folder you want to get in to, press right arrow to expand it. Want to edit your book Marks? Do this. 1. Open safari. 2. Press Cmd+Option+b. That gets you in to the edit book marks window. You should know enough by now to take it from there. Sent from my Mac, the only computer with full accessibility for the blind built-in! Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray, still a very happy Mac and Iphone 5 user! On Jan 12, 2014, at 1:21 PM, April Brown aprilbr...@gmail.com wrote: I opened Safari. I turned VoiceOver on. After a dozen tries, I managed to get it onto the Bookmarks. Somehow, as I was transferring my notes to a Pages document, it crashed, and a low, low, grumbling male voice started speaking. I turned off VoiceOver, closed Safari, and tried again. Another dozen tries, and I never did get it back on the Bookmarks bar to an actual bookmark. The one time I did, it wouldn't click on it, it highlighted and wanted to change it. Huh? So, I closed and turned it all off again. Then, I opened Safari back up. Opened up a web page, and turned VoiceOver back on. Again it got stuck in the menu, and would not get to content. At least, unlike in Firefox, I can click on the region I need read to me, and it will then work. That's my 30 minutes of trying to open a webpage today. Back to writing. And you wonder why I need step by step directions, and not just a random list. So far, to get it on Safari, I have: Step 1: Open Safari Step 2: Command, F5 to start VoiceOver Step 1: Control, Option, Down arrow from the menu to the bookmarks. And yet it doesn't quiet work, as it doesn't go the list of bookmarks. It did once. And where did this creepy male voice come from that keeps interrupting? I can't comprehend low tones. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionarie...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisi...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionarie...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to macvisi...@googlegroups.comjavascript: . Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you
Re: Today's 30 minutes with VoiceOver
Hi Teresa, I really need on on one training. However, the techs have no training in VoiceOver. I did call the number once, and never reached a person, just high pitched screaming music. I did the online chat, and even that tech didn't know anything about VoiceOver. On Sunday, January 12, 2014 2:54:32 PM UTC-5, Teresa Cochran wrote: Hi, April, It sounds like you very possibly could very much benefit from individual instruction. If you have an Apple Store in your area, you might find out if the folks there can refer you to someone. Or you can call Apple’s accessibility number for referrals. I am not saying this because we don’t want to help you. I’m thinking that it’s sort of like the person who constantly gets lost and never remembers how the route is corrected, because each error is different. Not to mention that it’s a fairly steep learning curve, and it’s always beneficial to have a consistent method of doing things, especially as a beginner. I don’t know where you’re located, but here’s the Apple accessibility number: 1-877-204-3930 US only. Also, I’m sure there are folks on this list who can give one-on-one instruction for using the Mac. this is just a suggestion. HtH, Teresa Slow down; you'll get there faster. On Jan 12, 2014, at 11:34 AM, April Brown aprilbr...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: The reason for turning VoiceOver off is to clear it, so when I open it back up, it will be back at the beginning, and maybe I can manage to figure out the steps to opening a web page from the bookmarks. I know it's incorrect. I haven't found directions anywhere. I just have multiple lists of commands, and no idea what order to put them in. It's a giant jigsaw puzzle. I try what you suggest. Thanks, April . On Sunday, January 12, 2014 2:29:48 PM UTC-5, Ray Foret jr wrote: April, First, you are needlessly making far too much work for yourself all for nothing. Why do you insist you must turn Voice OVer off every time you get out of Safari. This is quite frankly, unnecessary. Also, the procedure you are using to try to open bookmarks is completely incorrect. First, leave Voice OVer on. DO, NOT, turn it off. Here’s how to get in to book marks. 1. Open Safari. 2. Now, press VO+m to open the menu structure. 3. Now, press b for book marks. 4. Now, arrow down in to this menu, and, when ever you hear a book mark folder you want to get in to, press right arrow to expand it. Want to edit your book Marks? Do this. 1. Open safari. 2. Press Cmd+Option+b. That gets you in to the edit book marks window. You should know enough by now to take it from there. Sent from my Mac, the only computer with full accessibility for the blind built-in! Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray, still a very happy Mac and Iphone 5 user! On Jan 12, 2014, at 1:21 PM, April Brown aprilbr...@gmail.com wrote: I opened Safari. I turned VoiceOver on. After a dozen tries, I managed to get it onto the Bookmarks. Somehow, as I was transferring my notes to a Pages document, it crashed, and a low, low, grumbling male voice started speaking. I turned off VoiceOver, closed Safari, and tried again. Another dozen tries, and I never did get it back on the Bookmarks bar to an actual bookmark. The one time I did, it wouldn't click on it, it highlighted and wanted to change it. Huh? So, I closed and turned it all off again. Then, I opened Safari back up. Opened up a web page, and turned VoiceOver back on. Again it got stuck in the menu, and would not get to content. At least, unlike in Firefox, I can click on the region I need read to me, and it will then work. That's my 30 minutes of trying to open a webpage today. Back to writing. And you wonder why I need step by step directions, and not just a random list. So far, to get it on Safari, I have: Step 1: Open Safari Step 2: Command, F5 to start VoiceOver Step 1: Control, Option, Down arrow from the menu to the bookmarks. And yet it doesn't quiet work, as it doesn't go the list of bookmarks. It did once. And where did this creepy male voice come from that keeps interrupting? I can't comprehend low tones. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionarie...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisi...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To unsubscribe from this group and
Re: Today's 30 minutes with VoiceOver
Hi April, I think that Teresa is right. I didn't follow this thread from the beginning, but it seems pretty clear that there's a big piece that you're missing. Perhaps if you were able to work one on one with someone, You could more easily get the support you need so that you could avoid experiences like the one you had today Also, and like Teresa I don't mean to be discouraging, but there's nothing that says you have to use a Mac. If it's proving too much for you to learn the Mac, and you're comfortable with Windows, maybe the best thing is for you to stay on a PC. Choosing a computing environment is a highly subjective thing, and if you like Windows better, I can't imagine any reason in the world why you would have to switch to a Mac. Best, Donna On Jan 12, 2014, at 1:57 PM, April Brown aprilbrownwr...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Donna, I am trying to learn VoiceOver. Not successfully. I still have some vision, some days. I now have a headache. Thanks to Ray Foret, I can now open a web page, I just still can't figure out how to get it to read it without clicking where I need it to go. I have to learn to learn this before I am completely blind. Or perhaps, it would be better for me to not, and use a Braille display instead. However, I will likely retain some hearing at least another five to ten years. I still don't under stand half the words on these manuals. It's Greek and Chinese mixed. I'm, glad there are people out there who have someone to show them how, and the order to do things in. I can't figure it out. And with poor memory, I'll need it written to ever duplicate it. On Sunday, January 12, 2014 2:52:42 PM UTC-5, Donna wrote: April, I can't even imagine what approach you're trying to take here, or why you're taking it. In the nearly four years I've been using a Mac, I don't think I've *ever turned Voiceover off. You don't need to clear anything. Best, Donna On Jan 12, 2014, at 1:34 PM, April Brown aprilbr...@gmail.com wrote: The reason for turning VoiceOver off is to clear it, so when I open it back up, it will be back at the beginning, and maybe I can manage to figure out the steps to opening a web page from the bookmarks. I know it's incorrect. I haven't found directions anywhere. I just have multiple lists of commands, and no idea what order to put them in. It's a giant jigsaw puzzle. I try what you suggest. Thanks, April . On Sunday, January 12, 2014 2:29:48 PM UTC-5, Ray Foret jr wrote: April, First, you are needlessly making far too much work for yourself all for nothing. Why do you insist you must turn Voice OVer off every time you get out of Safari. This is quite frankly, unnecessary. Also, the procedure you are using to try to open bookmarks is completely incorrect. First, leave Voice OVer on. DO, NOT, turn it off. Here’s how to get in to book marks. 1. Open Safari. 2. Now, press VO+m to open the menu structure. 3. Now, press b for book marks. 4. Now, arrow down in to this menu, and, when ever you hear a book mark folder you want to get in to, press right arrow to expand it. Want to edit your book Marks? Do this. 1. Open safari. 2. Press Cmd+Option+b. That gets you in to the edit book marks window. You should know enough by now to take it from there. Sent from my Mac, the only computer with full accessibility for the blind built-in! Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray, still a very happy Mac and Iphone 5 user! On Jan 12, 2014, at 1:21 PM, April Brown aprilbr...@gmail.com wrote: I opened Safari. I turned VoiceOver on. After a dozen tries, I managed to get it onto the Bookmarks. Somehow, as I was transferring my notes to a Pages document, it crashed, and a low, low, grumbling male voice started speaking. I turned off VoiceOver, closed Safari, and tried again. Another dozen tries, and I never did get it back on the Bookmarks bar to an actual bookmark. The one time I did, it wouldn't click on it, it highlighted and wanted to change it. Huh? So, I closed and turned it all off again. Then, I opened Safari back up. Opened up a web page, and turned VoiceOver back on. Again it got stuck in the menu, and would not get to content. At least, unlike in Firefox, I can click on the region I need read to me, and it will then work. That's my 30 minutes of trying to open a webpage today. Back to writing. And you wonder why I need step by step directions, and not just a random list. So far, to get it on Safari, I have: Step 1: Open Safari Step 2: Command, F5 to start VoiceOver Step 1: Control, Option, Down arrow from the menu to the bookmarks. And yet it doesn't quiet work, as it doesn't go the list of bookmarks. It did once. And where did this creepy male voice come from that keeps interrupting? I can't comprehend low tones. -- You received this message because you are
Re: Today's 30 minutes with VoiceOver
Hi Donna, I definitely need someone who can help me, and give a list. I do like the Mac much better, except for the tinier fonts thing. I never could figure out how to use even NVDA on Windows either. I had to increase fonts again today on Firefox and Pages. Almost too big to read in the 32 inch tv screen, so I don't have much time left to learn it. Maybe a few months. If I ever figure it out, I will have a user friendly training manual for me, and others, to refer to. On Sunday, January 12, 2014 3:03:23 PM UTC-5, Donna wrote: Hi April, I think that Teresa is right. I didn't follow this thread from the beginning, but it seems pretty clear that there's a big piece that you're missing. Perhaps if you were able to work one on one with someone, You could more easily get the support you need so that you could avoid experiences like the one you had today Also, and like Teresa I don't mean to be discouraging, but there's nothing that says you have to use a Mac. If it's proving too much for you to learn the Mac, and you're comfortable with Windows, maybe the best thing is for you to stay on a PC. Choosing a computing environment is a highly subjective thing, and if you like Windows better, I can't imagine any reason in the world why you would have to switch to a Mac. Best, Donna On Jan 12, 2014, at 1:57 PM, April Brown aprilbr...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: Hi Donna, I am trying to learn VoiceOver. Not successfully. I still have some vision, some days. I now have a headache. Thanks to Ray Foret, I can now open a web page, I just still can't figure out how to get it to read it without clicking where I need it to go. I have to learn to learn this before I am completely blind. Or perhaps, it would be better for me to not, and use a Braille display instead. However, I will likely retain some hearing at least another five to ten years. I still don't under stand half the words on these manuals. It's Greek and Chinese mixed. I'm, glad there are people out there who have someone to show them how, and the order to do things in. I can't figure it out. And with poor memory, I'll need it written to ever duplicate it. On Sunday, January 12, 2014 2:52:42 PM UTC-5, Donna wrote: April, I can't even imagine what approach you're trying to take here, or why you're taking it. In the nearly four years I've been using a Mac, I don't think I've *ever turned Voiceover off. You don't need to clear anything. Best, Donna On Jan 12, 2014, at 1:34 PM, April Brown aprilbr...@gmail.com wrote: The reason for turning VoiceOver off is to clear it, so when I open it back up, it will be back at the beginning, and maybe I can manage to figure out the steps to opening a web page from the bookmarks. I know it's incorrect. I haven't found directions anywhere. I just have multiple lists of commands, and no idea what order to put them in. It's a giant jigsaw puzzle. I try what you suggest. Thanks, April . On Sunday, January 12, 2014 2:29:48 PM UTC-5, Ray Foret jr wrote: April, First, you are needlessly making far too much work for yourself all for nothing. Why do you insist you must turn Voice OVer off every time you get out of Safari. This is quite frankly, unnecessary. Also, the procedure you are using to try to open bookmarks is completely incorrect. First, leave Voice OVer on. DO, NOT, turn it off. Here’s how to get in to book marks. 1. Open Safari. 2. Now, press VO+m to open the menu structure. 3. Now, press b for book marks. 4. Now, arrow down in to this menu, and, when ever you hear a book mark folder you want to get in to, press right arrow to expand it. Want to edit your book Marks? Do this. 1. Open safari. 2. Press Cmd+Option+b. That gets you in to the edit book marks window. You should know enough by now to take it from there. Sent from my Mac, the only computer with full accessibility for the blind built-in! Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray, still a very happy Mac and Iphone 5 user! On Jan 12, 2014, at 1:21 PM, April Brown aprilbr...@gmail.com wrote: I opened Safari. I turned VoiceOver on. After a dozen tries, I managed to get it onto the Bookmarks. Somehow, as I was transferring my notes to a Pages document, it crashed, and a low, low, grumbling male voice started speaking. I turned off VoiceOver, closed Safari, and tried again. Another dozen tries, and I never did get it back on the Bookmarks bar to an actual bookmark. The one time I did, it wouldn't click on it, it highlighted and wanted to change it. Huh? So, I closed and turned it all off again. Then, I opened Safari back up. Opened up a web page, and turned VoiceOver back on. Again it got stuck in the menu, and would not get to content. At least, unlike in Firefox, I can click on the region I need read to me, and it will then work. That's my 30 minutes of
Re: Today's 30 minutes with VoiceOver
But April, by turning Voice OVer on and off, you are not doing what you think you are doing. There is no starting at the beginning with Voice Over. Just leave it on. How else do you expect to learn it? For more, I’d go to: www.applevis.com and also, www.icanworkthisthing.com YOu simply must learn to develope confidence with the system: and, framkly, beeing spoonfed everything all the time is a lousey way to do that. Don’t try to learn everything at once because it ain’t gonna happen. Sent from my Mac, the only computer with full accessibility for the blind built-in! Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray, still a very happy Mac and Iphone 5 user! On Jan 12, 2014, at 1:34 PM, April Brown aprilbrownwr...@gmail.com wrote: The reason for turning VoiceOver off is to clear it, so when I open it back up, it will be back at the beginning, and maybe I can manage to figure out the steps to opening a web page from the bookmarks. I know it's incorrect. I haven't found directions anywhere. I just have multiple lists of commands, and no idea what order to put them in. It's a giant jigsaw puzzle. I try what you suggest. Thanks, April . On Sunday, January 12, 2014 2:29:48 PM UTC-5, Ray Foret jr wrote: April, First, you are needlessly making far too much work for yourself all for nothing. Why do you insist you must turn Voice OVer off every time you get out of Safari. This is quite frankly, unnecessary. Also, the procedure you are using to try to open bookmarks is completely incorrect. First, leave Voice OVer on. DO, NOT, turn it off. Here’s how to get in to book marks. 1. Open Safari. 2. Now, press VO+m to open the menu structure. 3. Now, press b for book marks. 4. Now, arrow down in to this menu, and, when ever you hear a book mark folder you want to get in to, press right arrow to expand it. Want to edit your book Marks? Do this. 1. Open safari. 2. Press Cmd+Option+b. That gets you in to the edit book marks window. You should know enough by now to take it from there. Sent from my Mac, the only computer with full accessibility for the blind built-in! Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray, still a very happy Mac and Iphone 5 user! On Jan 12, 2014, at 1:21 PM, April Brown aprilbr...@gmail.com wrote: I opened Safari. I turned VoiceOver on. After a dozen tries, I managed to get it onto the Bookmarks. Somehow, as I was transferring my notes to a Pages document, it crashed, and a low, low, grumbling male voice started speaking. I turned off VoiceOver, closed Safari, and tried again. Another dozen tries, and I never did get it back on the Bookmarks bar to an actual bookmark. The one time I did, it wouldn't click on it, it highlighted and wanted to change it. Huh? So, I closed and turned it all off again. Then, I opened Safari back up. Opened up a web page, and turned VoiceOver back on. Again it got stuck in the menu, and would not get to content. At least, unlike in Firefox, I can click on the region I need read to me, and it will then work. That's my 30 minutes of trying to open a webpage today. Back to writing. And you wonder why I need step by step directions, and not just a random list. So far, to get it on Safari, I have: Step 1: Open Safari Step 2: Command, F5 to start VoiceOver Step 1: Control, Option, Down arrow from the menu to the bookmarks. And yet it doesn't quiet work, as it doesn't go the list of bookmarks. It did once. And where did this creepy male voice come from that keeps interrupting? I can't comprehend low tones. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionarie...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisi...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Today's 30 minutes with VoiceOver
By turning it off, and then re-opening everything, I restart at the beginning, instead of stuck in a toolbar that I don't how to get out of. I have to know where it will start each time, so I can make notes, and be able to use it the next time. Perhaps tomorrow, my husband can listen to the hard rock music if I call the Apple number, and maybe they'll have someone who at least knows how to get out of the menu bar. The last couple of people I spoke to, didn't know how to turn it on, much less use it. I don't want to leave it on all the time, it beeps constantly, especially if typing in a Pages document. That day may come. For now, 30 minutes of training a day is plenty. On Sunday, January 12, 2014 3:16:59 PM UTC-5, Ray Foret jr wrote: But April, by turning Voice OVer on and off, you are not doing what you think you are doing. There is no starting at the beginning with Voice Over. Just leave it on. How else do you expect to learn it? For more, I’d go to: www.applevis.com and also, www.icanworkthisthing.com YOu simply must learn to develope confidence with the system: and, framkly, beeing spoonfed everything all the time is a lousey way to do that. Don’t try to learn everything at once because it ain’t gonna happen. Sent from my Mac, the only computer with full accessibility for the blind built-in! Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray, still a very happy Mac and Iphone 5 user! On Jan 12, 2014, at 1:34 PM, April Brown aprilbr...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: The reason for turning VoiceOver off is to clear it, so when I open it back up, it will be back at the beginning, and maybe I can manage to figure out the steps to opening a web page from the bookmarks. I know it's incorrect. I haven't found directions anywhere. I just have multiple lists of commands, and no idea what order to put them in. It's a giant jigsaw puzzle. I try what you suggest. Thanks, April . On Sunday, January 12, 2014 2:29:48 PM UTC-5, Ray Foret jr wrote: April, First, you are needlessly making far too much work for yourself all for nothing. Why do you insist you must turn Voice OVer off every time you get out of Safari. This is quite frankly, unnecessary. Also, the procedure you are using to try to open bookmarks is completely incorrect. First, leave Voice OVer on. DO, NOT, turn it off. Here’s how to get in to book marks. 1. Open Safari. 2. Now, press VO+m to open the menu structure. 3. Now, press b for book marks. 4. Now, arrow down in to this menu, and, when ever you hear a book mark folder you want to get in to, press right arrow to expand it. Want to edit your book Marks? Do this. 1. Open safari. 2. Press Cmd+Option+b. That gets you in to the edit book marks window. You should know enough by now to take it from there. Sent from my Mac, the only computer with full accessibility for the blind built-in! Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray, still a very happy Mac and Iphone 5 user! On Jan 12, 2014, at 1:21 PM, April Brown aprilbr...@gmail.com wrote: I opened Safari. I turned VoiceOver on. After a dozen tries, I managed to get it onto the Bookmarks. Somehow, as I was transferring my notes to a Pages document, it crashed, and a low, low, grumbling male voice started speaking. I turned off VoiceOver, closed Safari, and tried again. Another dozen tries, and I never did get it back on the Bookmarks bar to an actual bookmark. The one time I did, it wouldn't click on it, it highlighted and wanted to change it. Huh? So, I closed and turned it all off again. Then, I opened Safari back up. Opened up a web page, and turned VoiceOver back on. Again it got stuck in the menu, and would not get to content. At least, unlike in Firefox, I can click on the region I need read to me, and it will then work. That's my 30 minutes of trying to open a webpage today. Back to writing. And you wonder why I need step by step directions, and not just a random list. So far, to get it on Safari, I have: Step 1: Open Safari Step 2: Command, F5 to start VoiceOver Step 1: Control, Option, Down arrow from the menu to the bookmarks. And yet it doesn't quiet work, as it doesn't go the list of bookmarks. It did once. And where did this creepy male voice come from that keeps interrupting? I can't comprehend low tones. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionarie...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisi...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To unsubscribe from this group and
Re: Today's 30 minutes with VoiceOver
What do you mean it beeps. I leave my Mac on with Voiceover running all the time, and it never beeps. The only sound I can think of that you might be hearing is the ding signifying that you got a new email. If that bothers you, then just close the email program, or disable the new mail sound. Donna On Jan 12, 2014, at 2:22 PM, April Brown aprilbrownwr...@gmail.com wrote: By turning it off, and then re-opening everything, I restart at the beginning, instead of stuck in a toolbar that I don't how to get out of. I have to know where it will start each time, so I can make notes, and be able to use it the next time. Perhaps tomorrow, my husband can listen to the hard rock music if I call the Apple number, and maybe they'll have someone who at least knows how to get out of the menu bar. The last couple of people I spoke to, didn't know how to turn it on, much less use it. I don't want to leave it on all the time, it beeps constantly, especially if typing in a Pages document. That day may come. For now, 30 minutes of training a day is plenty. On Sunday, January 12, 2014 3:16:59 PM UTC-5, Ray Foret jr wrote: But April, by turning Voice OVer on and off, you are not doing what you think you are doing. There is no starting at the beginning with Voice Over. Just leave it on. How else do you expect to learn it? For more, I’d go to: www.applevis.com and also, www.icanworkthisthing.com YOu simply must learn to develope confidence with the system: and, framkly, beeing spoonfed everything all the time is a lousey way to do that. Don’t try to learn everything at once because it ain’t gonna happen. Sent from my Mac, the only computer with full accessibility for the blind built-in! Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray, still a very happy Mac and Iphone 5 user! On Jan 12, 2014, at 1:34 PM, April Brown aprilbr...@gmail.com wrote: The reason for turning VoiceOver off is to clear it, so when I open it back up, it will be back at the beginning, and maybe I can manage to figure out the steps to opening a web page from the bookmarks. I know it's incorrect. I haven't found directions anywhere. I just have multiple lists of commands, and no idea what order to put them in. It's a giant jigsaw puzzle. I try what you suggest. Thanks, April . On Sunday, January 12, 2014 2:29:48 PM UTC-5, Ray Foret jr wrote: April, First, you are needlessly making far too much work for yourself all for nothing. Why do you insist you must turn Voice OVer off every time you get out of Safari. This is quite frankly, unnecessary. Also, the procedure you are using to try to open bookmarks is completely incorrect. First, leave Voice OVer on. DO, NOT, turn it off. Here’s how to get in to book marks. 1. Open Safari. 2. Now, press VO+m to open the menu structure. 3. Now, press b for book marks. 4. Now, arrow down in to this menu, and, when ever you hear a book mark folder you want to get in to, press right arrow to expand it. Want to edit your book Marks? Do this. 1. Open safari. 2. Press Cmd+Option+b. That gets you in to the edit book marks window. You should know enough by now to take it from there. Sent from my Mac, the only computer with full accessibility for the blind built-in! Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray, still a very happy Mac and Iphone 5 user! On Jan 12, 2014, at 1:21 PM, April Brown aprilbr...@gmail.com wrote: I opened Safari. I turned VoiceOver on. After a dozen tries, I managed to get it onto the Bookmarks. Somehow, as I was transferring my notes to a Pages document, it crashed, and a low, low, grumbling male voice started speaking. I turned off VoiceOver, closed Safari, and tried again. Another dozen tries, and I never did get it back on the Bookmarks bar to an actual bookmark. The one time I did, it wouldn't click on it, it highlighted and wanted to change it. Huh? So, I closed and turned it all off again. Then, I opened Safari back up. Opened up a web page, and turned VoiceOver back on. Again it got stuck in the menu, and would not get to content. At least, unlike in Firefox, I can click on the region I need read to me, and it will then work. That's my 30 minutes of trying to open a webpage today. Back to writing. And you wonder why I need step by step directions, and not just a random list. So far, to get it on Safari, I have: Step 1: Open Safari Step 2: Command, F5 to start VoiceOver Step 1: Control, Option, Down arrow from the menu to the bookmarks. And yet it doesn't quiet work, as it doesn't go the list of bookmarks. It did once. And where did this creepy male voice come from that keeps interrupting? I can't comprehend low tones. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving
Re: Today's 30 minutes with VoiceOver
April, best command I have learned myself at this point is command Q to close everything and command W to close windows. A few days ago I believe Sarai sent an article from Mac World. If it did anything for me, it made the layout of the screen much more understandable. I even learned what Time Machine was, though still don't know how to use. I could resend if you like. I think perhaps you are trying to do too much all at once. Maybe you should focus on mail and get used to getting into it and reading and writing email until you are comfortable. You may even want to tackle only starting the machine and getting on the desktop which has another name I forgot. Don't try to learn all commands at once. Pick something and become really reliable with it. What I am learning is that a lot of times the commands will be the same in different places and apps. By the way, I wear hearing aids and have had to tweak my voices to find something I can understand. I also don't have a very good memory so little chunks of info is all I can handle until cemented into long term memory. I thought the Mac was very different from iPhone, but I am finding there is a lot of similarity too. I know you can do this. I just will not let it defeat me. Took me a long time to learn Windows so it will take a while to change operating systems. However, we can do this! reggie and Allegra On Jan 12, 2014, at 2:57 PM, April Brown aprilbrownwr...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Donna, I am trying to learn VoiceOver. Not successfully. I still have some vision, some days. I now have a headache. Thanks to Ray Foret, I can now open a web page, I just still can't figure out how to get it to read it without clicking where I need it to go. I have to learn to learn this before I am completely blind. Or perhaps, it would be better for me to not, and use a Braille display instead. However, I will likely retain some hearing at least another five to ten years. I still don't under stand half the words on these manuals. It's Greek and Chinese mixed. I'm, glad there are people out there who have someone to show them how, and the order to do things in. I can't figure it out. And with poor memory, I'll need it written to ever duplicate it. On Sunday, January 12, 2014 2:52:42 PM UTC-5, Donna wrote: April, I can't even imagine what approach you're trying to take here, or why you're taking it. In the nearly four years I've been using a Mac, I don't think I've *ever turned Voiceover off. You don't need to clear anything. Best, Donna On Jan 12, 2014, at 1:34 PM, April Brown aprilbr...@gmail.com wrote: The reason for turning VoiceOver off is to clear it, so when I open it back up, it will be back at the beginning, and maybe I can manage to figure out the steps to opening a web page from the bookmarks. I know it's incorrect. I haven't found directions anywhere. I just have multiple lists of commands, and no idea what order to put them in. It's a giant jigsaw puzzle. I try what you suggest. Thanks, April . On Sunday, January 12, 2014 2:29:48 PM UTC-5, Ray Foret jr wrote: April, First, you are needlessly making far too much work for yourself all for nothing. Why do you insist you must turn Voice OVer off every time you get out of Safari. This is quite frankly, unnecessary. Also, the procedure you are using to try to open bookmarks is completely incorrect. First, leave Voice OVer on. DO, NOT, turn it off. Here’s how to get in to book marks. 1. Open Safari. 2. Now, press VO+m to open the menu structure. 3. Now, press b for book marks. 4. Now, arrow down in to this menu, and, when ever you hear a book mark folder you want to get in to, press right arrow to expand it. Want to edit your book Marks? Do this. 1. Open safari. 2. Press Cmd+Option+b. That gets you in to the edit book marks window. You should know enough by now to take it from there. Sent from my Mac, the only computer with full accessibility for the blind built-in! Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray, still a very happy Mac and Iphone 5 user! On Jan 12, 2014, at 1:21 PM, April Brown aprilbr...@gmail.com wrote: I opened Safari. I turned VoiceOver on. After a dozen tries, I managed to get it onto the Bookmarks. Somehow, as I was transferring my notes to a Pages document, it crashed, and a low, low, grumbling male voice started speaking. I turned off VoiceOver, closed Safari, and tried again. Another dozen tries, and I never did get it back on the Bookmarks bar to an actual bookmark. The one time I did, it wouldn't click on it, it highlighted and wanted to change it. Huh? So, I closed and turned it all off again. Then, I opened Safari back up. Opened up a web page, and turned VoiceOver back on. Again it got stuck in the menu, and would not get to content. At least, unlike in Firefox, I can click on the region I need read to me, and
Re: Today's 30 minutes with VoiceOver
Hi Donna, It beeps if I hit an invalid command. Which appears to be about every combination I try on that list of common commands. It beeps and does nothing because it won't use that command there. On Sunday, January 12, 2014 3:26:10 PM UTC-5, Donna wrote: What do you mean it beeps. I leave my Mac on with Voiceover running all the time, and it never beeps. The only sound I can think of that you might be hearing is the ding signifying that you got a new email. If that bothers you, then just close the email program, or disable the new mail sound. Donna On Jan 12, 2014, at 2:22 PM, April Brown aprilbr...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: By turning it off, and then re-opening everything, I restart at the beginning, instead of stuck in a toolbar that I don't how to get out of. I have to know where it will start each time, so I can make notes, and be able to use it the next time. Perhaps tomorrow, my husband can listen to the hard rock music if I call the Apple number, and maybe they'll have someone who at least knows how to get out of the menu bar. The last couple of people I spoke to, didn't know how to turn it on, much less use it. I don't want to leave it on all the time, it beeps constantly, especially if typing in a Pages document. That day may come. For now, 30 minutes of training a day is plenty. On Sunday, January 12, 2014 3:16:59 PM UTC-5, Ray Foret jr wrote: But April, by turning Voice OVer on and off, you are not doing what you think you are doing. There is no starting at the beginning with Voice Over. Just leave it on. How else do you expect to learn it? For more, I’d go to: www.applevis.com and also, www.icanworkthisthing.com YOu simply must learn to develope confidence with the system: and, framkly, beeing spoonfed everything all the time is a lousey way to do that. Don’t try to learn everything at once because it ain’t gonna happen. Sent from my Mac, the only computer with full accessibility for the blind built-in! Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray, still a very happy Mac and Iphone 5 user! On Jan 12, 2014, at 1:34 PM, April Brown aprilbr...@gmail.com wrote: The reason for turning VoiceOver off is to clear it, so when I open it back up, it will be back at the beginning, and maybe I can manage to figure out the steps to opening a web page from the bookmarks. I know it's incorrect. I haven't found directions anywhere. I just have multiple lists of commands, and no idea what order to put them in. It's a giant jigsaw puzzle. I try what you suggest. Thanks, April . On Sunday, January 12, 2014 2:29:48 PM UTC-5, Ray Foret jr wrote: April, First, you are needlessly making far too much work for yourself all for nothing. Why do you insist you must turn Voice OVer off every time you get out of Safari. This is quite frankly, unnecessary. Also, the procedure you are using to try to open bookmarks is completely incorrect. First, leave Voice OVer on. DO, NOT, turn it off. Here’s how to get in to book marks. 1. Open Safari. 2. Now, press VO+m to open the menu structure. 3. Now, press b for book marks. 4. Now, arrow down in to this menu, and, when ever you hear a book mark folder you want to get in to, press right arrow to expand it. Want to edit your book Marks? Do this. 1. Open safari. 2. Press Cmd+Option+b. That gets you in to the edit book marks window. You should know enough by now to take it from there. Sent from my Mac, the only computer with full accessibility for the blind built-in! Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray, still a very happy Mac and Iphone 5 user! On Jan 12, 2014, at 1:21 PM, April Brown aprilbr...@gmail.com wrote: I opened Safari. I turned VoiceOver on. After a dozen tries, I managed to get it onto the Bookmarks. Somehow, as I was transferring my notes to a Pages document, it crashed, and a low, low, grumbling male voice started speaking. I turned off VoiceOver, closed Safari, and tried again. Another dozen tries, and I never did get it back on the Bookmarks bar to an actual bookmark. The one time I did, it wouldn't click on it, it highlighted and wanted to change it. Huh? So, I closed and turned it all off again. Then, I opened Safari back up. Opened up a web page, and turned VoiceOver back on. Again it got stuck in the menu, and would not get to content. At least, unlike in Firefox, I can click on the region I need read to me, and it will then work. That's my 30 minutes of trying to open a webpage today. Back to writing. And you wonder why I need step by step directions, and not just a random list. So far, to get it on Safari, I have: Step 1: Open Safari Step 2: Command, F5 to start VoiceOver Step 1: Control, Option, Down arrow from the menu to the bookmarks. And yet it doesn't quiet work, as it doesn't go the list of bookmarks. It did once. And where did
Re: Today's 30 minutes with VoiceOver
Hi Regina, I thought about just trying to learn to use it in Mail. However, when I need it most right now, is the late afternoon, When I want to relax, the screen is too blurry to see, and some nice Internet surfing would be a good way to relax for twenty minutes. While learning something new I will need full time before long. I feel like someone took a 2,000 piece jigsaw puzzle, took out all the corners,edges, and half the remaining pieces, and handed it to me to guess how the rest goes together I've even tried to find a list that just focuses on web commands. And they are so full of terms I have no clue what they are, that it's probably useless to me without a definition sheet. How can I guess what the command is for if it's name, and description is something unintelligible to me? I'm off to eat dinner and close my eye. Good night, and I'll try again tomorrow. Another way, perhaps. On Sunday, January 12, 2014 3:39:38 PM UTC-5, regina alvarado wrote: April, best command I have learned myself at this point is command Q to close everything and command W to close windows. A few days ago I believe Sarai sent an article from Mac World. If it did anything for me, it made the layout of the screen much more understandable. I even learned what Time Machine was, though still don't know how to use. I could resend if you like. I think perhaps you are trying to do too much all at once. Maybe you should focus on mail and get used to getting into it and reading and writing email until you are comfortable. You may even want to tackle only starting the machine and getting on the desktop which has another name I forgot. Don't try to learn all commands at once. Pick something and become really reliable with it. What I am learning is that a lot of times the commands will be the same in different places and apps. By the way, I wear hearing aids and have had to tweak my voices to find something I can understand. I also don't have a very good memory so little chunks of info is all I can handle until cemented into long term memory. I thought the Mac was very different from iPhone, but I am finding there is a lot of similarity too. I know you can do this. I just will not let it defeat me. Took me a long time to learn Windows so it will take a while to change operating systems. However, we can do this! reggie and Allegra On Jan 12, 2014, at 2:57 PM, April Brown aprilbr...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: Hi Donna, I am trying to learn VoiceOver. Not successfully. I still have some vision, some days. I now have a headache. Thanks to Ray Foret, I can now open a web page, I just still can't figure out how to get it to read it without clicking where I need it to go. I have to learn to learn this before I am completely blind. Or perhaps, it would be better for me to not, and use a Braille display instead. However, I will likely retain some hearing at least another five to ten years. I still don't under stand half the words on these manuals. It's Greek and Chinese mixed. I'm, glad there are people out there who have someone to show them how, and the order to do things in. I can't figure it out. And with poor memory, I'll need it written to ever duplicate it. On Sunday, January 12, 2014 2:52:42 PM UTC-5, Donna wrote: April, I can't even imagine what approach you're trying to take here, or why you're taking it. In the nearly four years I've been using a Mac, I don't think I've *ever turned Voiceover off. You don't need to clear anything. Best, Donna On Jan 12, 2014, at 1:34 PM, April Brown aprilbr...@gmail.com wrote: The reason for turning VoiceOver off is to clear it, so when I open it back up, it will be back at the beginning, and maybe I can manage to figure out the steps to opening a web page from the bookmarks. I know it's incorrect. I haven't found directions anywhere. I just have multiple lists of commands, and no idea what order to put them in. It's a giant jigsaw puzzle. I try what you suggest. Thanks, April . On Sunday, January 12, 2014 2:29:48 PM UTC-5, Ray Foret jr wrote: April, First, you are needlessly making far too much work for yourself all for nothing. Why do you insist you must turn Voice OVer off every time you get out of Safari. This is quite frankly, unnecessary. Also, the procedure you are using to try to open bookmarks is completely incorrect. First, leave Voice OVer on. DO, NOT, turn it off. Here’s how to get in to book marks. 1. Open Safari. 2. Now, press VO+m to open the menu structure. 3. Now, press b for book marks. 4. Now, arrow down in to this menu, and, when ever you hear a book mark folder you want to get in to, press right arrow to expand it. Want to edit your book Marks? Do this. 1. Open safari. 2. Press Cmd+Option+b. That gets you in to the edit book marks window. You should know enough by now to take it from
Re: Today's 30 minutes with VoiceOver
Hello. I have sent you an email off list regarding your mac. Thanks. Matt Dierckens matt.dierck...@gmail.com On Jan 12, 2014, at 3:58 PM, April Brown aprilbrownwr...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Regina, I thought about just trying to learn to use it in Mail. However, when I need it most right now, is the late afternoon, When I want to relax, the screen is too blurry to see, and some nice Internet surfing would be a good way to relax for twenty minutes. While learning something new I will need full time before long. I feel like someone took a 2,000 piece jigsaw puzzle, took out all the corners,edges, and half the remaining pieces, and handed it to me to guess how the rest goes together I've even tried to find a list that just focuses on web commands. And they are so full of terms I have no clue what they are, that it's probably useless to me without a definition sheet. How can I guess what the command is for if it's name, and description is something unintelligible to me? I'm off to eat dinner and close my eye. Good night, and I'll try again tomorrow. Another way, perhaps. On Sunday, January 12, 2014 3:39:38 PM UTC-5, regina alvarado wrote: April, best command I have learned myself at this point is command Q to close everything and command W to close windows. A few days ago I believe Sarai sent an article from Mac World. If it did anything for me, it made the layout of the screen much more understandable. I even learned what Time Machine was, though still don't know how to use. I could resend if you like. I think perhaps you are trying to do too much all at once. Maybe you should focus on mail and get used to getting into it and reading and writing email until you are comfortable. You may even want to tackle only starting the machine and getting on the desktop which has another name I forgot. Don't try to learn all commands at once. Pick something and become really reliable with it. What I am learning is that a lot of times the commands will be the same in different places and apps. By the way, I wear hearing aids and have had to tweak my voices to find something I can understand. I also don't have a very good memory so little chunks of info is all I can handle until cemented into long term memory. I thought the Mac was very different from iPhone, but I am finding there is a lot of similarity too. I know you can do this. I just will not let it defeat me. Took me a long time to learn Windows so it will take a while to change operating systems. However, we can do this! reggie and Allegra On Jan 12, 2014, at 2:57 PM, April Brown aprilbr...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Donna, I am trying to learn VoiceOver. Not successfully. I still have some vision, some days. I now have a headache. Thanks to Ray Foret, I can now open a web page, I just still can't figure out how to get it to read it without clicking where I need it to go. I have to learn to learn this before I am completely blind. Or perhaps, it would be better for me to not, and use a Braille display instead. However, I will likely retain some hearing at least another five to ten years. I still don't under stand half the words on these manuals. It's Greek and Chinese mixed. I'm, glad there are people out there who have someone to show them how, and the order to do things in. I can't figure it out. And with poor memory, I'll need it written to ever duplicate it. On Sunday, January 12, 2014 2:52:42 PM UTC-5, Donna wrote: April, I can't even imagine what approach you're trying to take here, or why you're taking it. In the nearly four years I've been using a Mac, I don't think I've *ever turned Voiceover off. You don't need to clear anything. Best, Donna On Jan 12, 2014, at 1:34 PM, April Brown aprilbr...@gmail.com wrote: The reason for turning VoiceOver off is to clear it, so when I open it back up, it will be back at the beginning, and maybe I can manage to figure out the steps to opening a web page from the bookmarks. I know it's incorrect. I haven't found directions anywhere. I just have multiple lists of commands, and no idea what order to put them in. It's a giant jigsaw puzzle. I try what you suggest. Thanks, April . On Sunday, January 12, 2014 2:29:48 PM UTC-5, Ray Foret jr wrote: April, First, you are needlessly making far too much work for yourself all for nothing. Why do you insist you must turn Voice OVer off every time you get out of Safari. This is quite frankly, unnecessary. Also, the procedure you are using to try to open bookmarks is completely incorrect. First, leave Voice OVer on. DO, NOT, turn it off. Here’s how to get in to book marks. 1. Open Safari. 2. Now, press VO+m to open the menu structure. 3. Now, press b for book marks. 4. Now, arrow down in to this menu, and, when ever you hear a book mark folder you want to get in to, press
Re: Today's 30 minutes with VoiceOver
Hi April, As others have mentioned, I believe that you're approaching this from a more difficult prospective than necessary. When you turn off VoiceOver (VO) before starting Safari, you're causing VO to behave different than most people on this list would experience. That is, if you start Safari while VO is already on, then VO usually will automatically be focused in the HTML area. When you turn VO on after the fact, VO focus is at the most upper level it can be. By the way, have you used the VoiceOver QuickStart guide r looked through the VoiceOver commands? While VO is on, press the VO keys (ctrl and option) along with the letter h and there's some very helpful material there for you. But, I believe that some explaining would benefit you here as well, so, we'll start with some VO Safari basics: 1. When VoiceOver (VO) is turned on and you wish to navigate within Safari, you essentially have layers of items that you can deal with. As you use VO-right/left or VO-up/down around the Safari screen, VO will announce things like Toolbar, Web-page name followed by HTML Content, various Sidebars and Close, Minimize, Zoom buttons. Things like Toolbars and Sidebars require you to dig a level down to know what's there. In VO language, that is Interacting With and item. So, pressing VO-shift-down arrow Interacts with the item and drills you down into that level of items. You can then navigate with VO-left/right/up/down to determine the available items at that level. Once you are at a lower level of items, for example within the Toolbar, you only here about that level unless you press VO-shift-up arrow to Stop Interacting with the Toolbar or that specific level of items. When you hear VO announce Web-page name HTML Content, that is the area where all the web content resides. Interact with that area then use VO-left/right/up/down to navigate around and VO-space or your return key to activate a given link. You can also use the tabkey to move between links but remember that when using the tabkey, you will likely miss any textual or other content. Another thing that you may find beneficial is the cmd-l command. This command moves focus to the Address/Search field. So, pressing cmd-l, then typing www.google.com followed by the return key will send you to Google's home page. And, pressing cmd-l and entering VoiceOver commands followed by return will do a Google search for this phrase and give the results within the HTML Content area. This is a start for you, and remember that VO is designed to be able to use the same command structure no matter what application you're using. So, learning basic VoiceOver navigation is essential and will actually make your experience much less frustrating. HTH. Later... On Jan 12, 2014, at 12:52 PM, Donna Goodin doniado...@me.com wrote: April, I can't even imagine what approach you're trying to take here, or why you're taking it. In the nearly four years I've been using a Mac, I don't think I've *ever turned Voiceover off. You don't need to clear anything. Best, Donna On Jan 12, 2014, at 1:34 PM, April Brown aprilbrownwr...@gmail.com wrote: The reason for turning VoiceOver off is to clear it, so when I open it back up, it will be back at the beginning, and maybe I can manage to figure out the steps to opening a web page from the bookmarks. I know it's incorrect. I haven't found directions anywhere. I just have multiple lists of commands, and no idea what order to put them in. It's a giant jigsaw puzzle. I try what you suggest. Thanks, April . On Sunday, January 12, 2014 2:29:48 PM UTC-5, Ray Foret jr wrote: April, First, you are needlessly making far too much work for yourself all for nothing. Why do you insist you must turn Voice OVer off every time you get out of Safari. This is quite frankly, unnecessary. Also, the procedure you are using to try to open bookmarks is completely incorrect. First, leave Voice OVer on. DO, NOT, turn it off. Here’s how to get in to book marks. 1. Open Safari. 2. Now, press VO+m to open the menu structure. 3. Now, press b for book marks. 4. Now, arrow down in to this menu, and, when ever you hear a book mark folder you want to get in to, press right arrow to expand it. Want to edit your book Marks? Do this. 1. Open safari. 2. Press Cmd+Option+b. That gets you in to the edit book marks window. You should know enough by now to take it from there. Sent from my Mac, the only computer with full accessibility for the blind built-in! Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray, still a very happy Mac and Iphone 5 user! On Jan 12, 2014, at 1:21 PM, April Brown aprilbr...@gmail.com wrote: I opened Safari. I turned VoiceOver on. After a dozen tries, I managed to get it onto the Bookmarks. Somehow, as I was transferring my notes to a Pages document, it crashed, and a low, low, grumbling male
Re: Today's 30 minutes with VoiceOver
I have no idea what this even means. voiceover doesn’t clear or *start over* am extremely confused here. Alia On Jan 12, 2014, at 2:52 PM, Donna Goodin doniado...@me.com wrote: April, I can't even imagine what approach you're trying to take here, or why you're taking it. In the nearly four years I've been using a Mac, I don't think I've *ever turned Voiceover off. You don't need to clear anything. Best, -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Today's 30 minutes with VoiceOver
Hi Tim, Tomorrow I can try turning VoiceOver on before I open Safari. My head hurts too much tonight. Yes, I tried the training thin g three times, and couldn't even get it to work in the training module. I've printed a ten page list of commands, a 30 page list of commands, and a whole bunch of other stuff to no avail. I'm old. Very old. Even as a former web designer, I have no idea what a web rotor, web spot, or half of those other terms are. I used to write CSS and HTML. I don't recognize the visible page as HTML, rather as text, so some terms are likely flipping. I need a step by step guide. I'll create one myself, if I have to. Somehow, no matter what key combination I try, and the VO arrow, or VO shift arrow mostly beeps at me. There must be a setting wrong somewhere. It shouldn't be that hard to figure out. How did anyone ever figure it out with a rocket science degree? Your notes should help me a lot. On Sunday, January 12, 2014 4:43:39 PM UTC-5, Tim Kilburn wrote: Hi April, As others have mentioned, I believe that you're approaching this from a more difficult prospective than necessary. When you turn off VoiceOver (VO) before starting Safari, you're causing VO to behave different than most people on this list would experience. That is, if you start Safari while VO is already on, then VO usually will automatically be focused in the HTML area. When you turn VO on after the fact, VO focus is at the most upper level it can be. By the way, have you used the VoiceOver QuickStart guide r looked through the VoiceOver commands? While VO is on, press the VO keys (ctrl and option) along with the letter h and there's some very helpful material there for you. But, I believe that some explaining would benefit you here as well, so, we'll start with some VO Safari basics: 1. When VoiceOver (VO) is turned on and you wish to navigate within Safari, you essentially have layers of items that you can deal with. As you use VO-right/left or VO-up/down around the Safari screen, VO will announce things like Toolbar, Web-page name followed by HTML Content, various Sidebars and Close, Minimize, Zoom buttons. Things like Toolbars and Sidebars require you to dig a level down to know what's there. In VO language, that is Interacting With and item. So, pressing VO-shift-down arrow Interacts with the item and drills you down into that level of items. You can then navigate with VO-left/right/up/down to determine the available items at that level. Once you are at a lower level of items, for example within the Toolbar, you only here about that level unless you press VO-shift-up arrow to Stop Interacting with the Toolbar or that specific level of items. When you hear VO announce Web-page name HTML Content, that is the area where all the web content resides. Interact with that area then use VO-left/right/up/down to navigate around and VO-space or your return key to activate a given link. You can also use the tabkey to move between links but remember that when using the tabkey, you will likely miss any textual or other content. Another thing that you may find beneficial is the cmd-l command. This command moves focus to the Address/Search field. So, pressing cmd-l, then typing www.google.com followed by the return key will send you to Google's home page. And, pressing cmd-l and entering VoiceOver commands followed by return will do a Google search for this phrase and give the results within the HTML Content area. This is a start for you, and remember that VO is designed to be able to use the same command structure no matter what application you're using. So, learning basic VoiceOver navigation is essential and will actually make your experience much less frustrating. HTH. Later... On Jan 12, 2014, at 12:52 PM, Donna Goodin donia...@me.com javascript: wrote: April, I can't even imagine what approach you're trying to take here, or why you're taking it. In the nearly four years I've been using a Mac, I don't think I've *ever turned Voiceover off. You don't need to clear anything. Best, Donna On Jan 12, 2014, at 1:34 PM, April Brown aprilbr...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: The reason for turning VoiceOver off is to clear it, so when I open it back up, it will be back at the beginning, and maybe I can manage to figure out the steps to opening a web page from the bookmarks. I know it's incorrect. I haven't found directions anywhere. I just have multiple lists of commands, and no idea what order to put them in. It's a giant jigsaw puzzle. I try what you suggest. Thanks, April . On Sunday, January 12, 2014 2:29:48 PM UTC-5, Ray Foret jr wrote: April, First, you are needlessly making far too much work for yourself all for nothing. Why do you insist you must turn Voice OVer off every time you get out of Safari. This is quite frankly, unnecessary.
Re: Today's 30 minutes with VoiceOver
No more than I am, I'm sure. When something gets stuck on a computer, the common knowledge is to shut it down, and restart. Exactly what I was trying to do, every time VoiceOver would get stuck and every command I tried would just make it beep and do nothing. On Sunday, January 12, 2014 4:55:38 PM UTC-5, alia robinson wrote: I have no idea what this even means. voiceover doesn’t clear or *start over* am extremely confused here. Alia On Jan 12, 2014, at 2:52 PM, Donna Goodin donia...@me.com javascript: wrote: April, I can't even imagine what approach you're trying to take here, or why you're taking it. In the nearly four years I've been using a Mac, I don't think I've *ever turned Voiceover off. You don't need to clear anything. Best, -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Today's 30 minutes with VoiceOver
Where are you located? On Sunday, January 12, 2014 11:21:13 AM UTC-8, April Brown wrote: I opened Safari. I turned VoiceOver on. After a dozen tries, I managed to get it onto the Bookmarks. Somehow, as I was transferring my notes to a Pages document, it crashed, and a low, low, grumbling male voice started speaking. I turned off VoiceOver, closed Safari, and tried again. Another dozen tries, and I never did get it back on the Bookmarks bar to an actual bookmark. The one time I did, it wouldn't click on it, it highlighted and wanted to change it. Huh? So, I closed and turned it all off again. Then, I opened Safari back up. Opened up a web page, and turned VoiceOver back on. Again it got stuck in the menu, and would not get to content. At least, unlike in Firefox, I can click on the region I need read to me, and it will then work. That's my 30 minutes of trying to open a webpage today. Back to writing. And you wonder why I need step by step directions, and not just a random list. So far, to get it on Safari, I have: Step 1: Open Safari Step 2: Command, F5 to start VoiceOver Step 1: Control, Option, Down arrow from the menu to the bookmarks. And yet it doesn't quiet work, as it doesn't go the list of bookmarks. It did once. And where did this creepy male voice come from that keeps interrupting? I can't comprehend low tones. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Today's 30 minutes with VoiceOver
have you tried to learn VoiceOver basics by opening the VoiceOver help menu and selecting the quick start tutorial? Once you've worked through that tutorial you can read through the getting started guide? Me thinks you're making it far more complicated than it is. Honestly, start at the beginning, learn VO basics by taking the quick start tutorial, then move on to reading systematically through the getting started guide which is essentially a webpage in Safari that covers every aspect of VoiceOver - it's really quite thorough and easy to read. The best advice I ever got when I first started learning to use a mac was to forget everything I thought I knew and just start at the beginning. Also, take a deep breathe and keep things simple - it's not so hard if people like me and others here can master it, then so can you. On Jan 12, 2014, at 3:58 PM, April Brown aprilbrownwr...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Regina, I thought about just trying to learn to use it in Mail. However, when I need it most right now, is the late afternoon, When I want to relax, the screen is too blurry to see, and some nice Internet surfing would be a good way to relax for twenty minutes. While learning something new I will need full time before long. I feel like someone took a 2,000 piece jigsaw puzzle, took out all the corners,edges, and half the remaining pieces, and handed it to me to guess how the rest goes together I've even tried to find a list that just focuses on web commands. And they are so full of terms I have no clue what they are, that it's probably useless to me without a definition sheet. How can I guess what the command is for if it's name, and description is something unintelligible to me? I'm off to eat dinner and close my eye. Good night, and I'll try again tomorrow. Another way, perhaps. On Sunday, January 12, 2014 3:39:38 PM UTC-5, regina alvarado wrote: April, best command I have learned myself at this point is command Q to close everything and command W to close windows. A few days ago I believe Sarai sent an article from Mac World. If it did anything for me, it made the layout of the screen much more understandable. I even learned what Time Machine was, though still don't know how to use. I could resend if you like. I think perhaps you are trying to do too much all at once. Maybe you should focus on mail and get used to getting into it and reading and writing email until you are comfortable. You may even want to tackle only starting the machine and getting on the desktop which has another name I forgot. Don't try to learn all commands at once. Pick something and become really reliable with it. What I am learning is that a lot of times the commands will be the same in different places and apps. By the way, I wear hearing aids and have had to tweak my voices to find something I can understand. I also don't have a very good memory so little chunks of info is all I can handle until cemented into long term memory. I thought the Mac was very different from iPhone, but I am finding there is a lot of similarity too. I know you can do this. I just will not let it defeat me. Took me a long time to learn Windows so it will take a while to change operating systems. However, we can do this! reggie and Allegra On Jan 12, 2014, at 2:57 PM, April Brown aprilbr...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Donna, I am trying to learn VoiceOver. Not successfully. I still have some vision, some days. I now have a headache. Thanks to Ray Foret, I can now open a web page, I just still can't figure out how to get it to read it without clicking where I need it to go. I have to learn to learn this before I am completely blind. Or perhaps, it would be better for me to not, and use a Braille display instead. However, I will likely retain some hearing at least another five to ten years. I still don't under stand half the words on these manuals. It's Greek and Chinese mixed. I'm, glad there are people out there who have someone to show them how, and the order to do things in. I can't figure it out. And with poor memory, I'll need it written to ever duplicate it. On Sunday, January 12, 2014 2:52:42 PM UTC-5, Donna wrote: April, I can't even imagine what approach you're trying to take here, or why you're taking it. In the nearly four years I've been using a Mac, I don't think I've *ever turned Voiceover off. You don't need to clear anything. Best, Donna On Jan 12, 2014, at 1:34 PM, April Brown aprilbr...@gmail.com wrote: The reason for turning VoiceOver off is to clear it, so when I open it back up, it will be back at the beginning, and maybe I can manage to figure out the steps to opening a web page from the bookmarks. I know it's incorrect. I haven't found directions anywhere. I just have multiple lists of commands, and no idea what order to put them in. It's a giant jigsaw puzzle. I try
Re: Today's 30 minutes with VoiceOver
Hi April. I may be of some help. I have two options for you because you say you want one-on-one training. If you have Skype, you can add me to Skype and I'll be happy to teach you the basics to Voiceover. I have a friend on here that I've taught how to use the Mac and it helped her greatly. The other option is a website but it's not the cheapest option. You can go to www.blindaccesstraining.com and request for one-on-one training there. I hope you'll take into consideration all the options I've told you. -- Shawn Sent From My White MacBook -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups MacVisionaries group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
