[Mailman-Users] Re: group mismatch
On Sun, 15 May 2022, Jon Baron wrote: I am trying to use spamassassin by running everything through /etc/procmail, Sorru, I do not understand what procmail and spamassassin, intended to process INCOMING mail, have to do with mailman which is SENDING OUT mail. I still have a few almost-dead mailman lists on my machine, and I do use procmail to filter my personal incoming mail. It is a long time we have abandoned (been forced to abandon) spamassassin, but that was running on the institute MX, not on my own machine. As far as I remember (after a first trial) spamassassin was run as a milter in sendmail.cf (the sendmail doc had s[pecial instructions). Procmail instead is run (by me only on my own machine) via my own ~/.procmailrc (no need to pass through /etc/aliases or amy other system file). That occurs definining it as default deliveryi agent for the local mailer in sendmail.cf (see also sendmail doc). My sendmail.cf has a section starting with Mlocal, P=/usr/bin/procmail, F=lsDFMAw5:/|@qSPfhn09, S=EnvFromL/HdrFromL, R=EnvToL/HdrToL, A=procmail -a $h -d $u The default aliases needed for the mailman lists are kept in a separate alias file, and sendmail.cf concatenates it with the system one O AliasFile=/etc/aliases,/etc/mail/mailman.aliases (do NOT use the sendmail.cf lines I quote as they are ... go through the proper sendmail configuration) -- Lucio Chiappetti - INAF/IASF - via Corti 12 - I-20133 Milano (Italy) For more info : http://www.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/personal.html "All that is google does not glitter Nor all who use alpine/procmail are lost" -- Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/ Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/ https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
[Mailman-Users] migration from mailman 2 to 3
One of the lists of which I am a co-moderator has been moved from mailman 2 to 3. While the administrator of the mailman site (not local) has directed us to https://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/migration.html, I find there guides for system administrators and members but I do not find an equivalent of the http://list.org/mailman-admin/index.html "List Administration Manual" ... ... in particular I'd like a checklist between the old "keywords" (e.g hold_these_nonmembers) and new equivalent ones (which seems "unnamed" in mailman 3) ... at least in the form of "under which new web page to look for a configuration item which was in a given old web page") Does anything like that exist ? Thanks Lucio Chiappetti -- Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/ Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/ https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
[Mailman-Users] forbidding subscriptions to a list
I am maintaining a list on mailman 2.1.18 on a server I have no control (actually it is some 1000's km from here). The list is absolutely closed, reserved to a committee with a small membership which is updated, if any, every severl years. In the last days the list is receiving subscription requests from odd addresses, apparently in couples. When I found two of them yesterday, I rejected them with a notice "list usage reserved ". Today I found a mail announcing two further requests, and when I entered the administrative interface found two more. I would like to close completely the list from subscription requests (so that they can be inserted only by the administrators). I thought to set ban_list ^.*@.* Is there any other better option ? Will the ban_list interfere with existing subscriptions ? (sent in Bcc to the other list maintainers) -- Lucio Chiappetti - INAF/IASF - via Corti 12 - I-20133 Milano (Italy) For more info : http://www.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/personal.html -- Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/ Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/ https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
[Mailman-Users] Re: better filtering - help?
On Wed, 27 May 2020, Jeffrey Westgate wrote: We've been running a mailman server, pushing more than 45 lists, for as long as I've been here, and recently spammers and phishers have found us. You do not specify which kind of lists you maintain. Are they closed (only subscribers can post) or open (anybody can post) ? Are subscriptions moderated (have to be approved) or anybody can subscribe ? I manage a few lists on different servers (some very far from where I work) and they are rather hardened: subscribers have to be approved, and only subscribers can post. Some even more. We're trying to find the right combination to filter in the "List of non-member addresses whose postings will be automatically discarded." under Privacy Options, Sender Filters. All we've been able to come up with are individual domains. Listing spammers in discard_these_nonmembers is a lost cause. You get one, add it, then he changes domain, you get another etc. One of my lists is set relatively soft, generic_nonmember_action is set to suspend, so any non-subscriber stops in moderation. You can leave it there forever and after a few days it expires. Another is set rather hard, generic_nonmember_action is set to discard, so in principle ANYTHING not coming from a subscriber is silently discarded, However, since this could be too strict (often subscribers post from a different address than the one they subsceribed) we play also with accept_these_nonmembers and hold_these_nonmembers. The former usually list addresses (e.g. presid...@myorg.it) but can be populated automatically (the first time the moderator lets an alias pass, he can append it automatically at a tic). The second forces the message into moderation, where one can (once per day?) discard it or let it pass. This makes use of REGULAR EXPRESSIONS (consult the online help). E.g. since our list is for a nationwide organization, it does not discard postings from our country (Italy, domain .it) and from another affiliated domain abroad e.g. ^.+@.+\.it ^.+@.+\.tng\.iac\.es -- Lucio Chiappetti - INAF/IASF - via Corti 12 - I-20133 Milano (Italy) For more info : http://www.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/personal.html "Can you see Enrico Fermi punching a time clock? There are effective ways to measure scientific productivity; times clocks are not the way." (Leon M. Lederman to INFN) -- Mailman-Users mailing list -- mailman-users@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to mailman-users-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/ Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/ https://mail.python.org/archives/list/mailman-users@python.org/
Re: [Mailman-Users] Translation (Localization) of mail addresses?
On Thu, 6 Dec 2018, Jim Ziobro wrote:
Are there any plans to support changing of mail interface addresses for
other languages?
??('admin', 'bounces', 'confirm', 'join', 'leave', 'owner', 'request',
'subscribe', 'unsubscribe'):
??Should the Italian mail extensions be something like:
?? gestire rimbalzi confermare aderire partire proprietario
richiesta sottoscrivi annulla?
As a native italian speaker (who however virtually always uses the English
interface in the *GUI* of mailman and any other tool) I would regard as
highly inconvenient any localization of *service address suffixes*).
- First of all admins may be used to the English-like form and would
be annoyed to use a different form for different mailing lists
- Secondly it would be like translating commands in a programming
language ... GO TO -> VAI A (Fortran), if -> se (almost all languages),
open -> apri (C and other languages) ... nobody does that seriously
but for fun !
- Finally, in lack of an agreed standard, since Italian is a much more
complicated language for what concerns verbal forms, one will have
to choose the tense (infinitive, imperative or indicative) and the
person (2nd singular, 2nd plural or 3rd courtesy form),
Just crazy.
--
Lucio Chiappetti - INAF/IASF - via Bassini 15 - I-20133 Milano (Italy)
For more info : http://www.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/personal.html
"All that is google does not glitter
Nor all who use alpine/procmail are lost"
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[Mailman-Users] gid problem upgrading mailman under opensuse leap 42
I used to have on my machine a "personal" mailman installation managing a few small lists (mailman 2.1.14, opensuse 11, MTA=sendmail). I am now in the process of moving to a new machine with opensuse leap 42 (and mailman 2.1.26 bundled with the distro. MTA is still sendmail). I would like to share my arrangement, in particular the way I overcame the error execing script "wanted gid 67 got gid 2". The solution is not yet in production (the new machine shall replace the old machine and assume its hostname, so far it THINKS to have the old hostname via /etc/hosts but the DNS still says to the world the old machine has the old hostname, so I tested things only locally, but it looks they work ... the administration web interface runs under a temporary CNAME, and I was able to add a local user to a test list and send a message to it). The new distro has a README.SUSE file which looks unchanged since last time (and possibly has a problem with the gid's). So this is the procedure: (1) make sure /etc/sudoers on the new system contains the commands present on the old system (2) copy the entire /var/lib/mailman to the new system. This should contain the lists, archives, aliases and everything. (since rsync does not copy all files, a tar "preserving permissions and dates" was used for a few files) (3) make a2enflag MAILMAN to configure the new apache web server (it has already all necessary stuff as of old) (4) in sendmail.cf make sure to have the line O AliasFile=/etc/mail/aliases,/etc/mail/mailman.aliases (5) copy the old script /usr/sbin/mailman.aliases (this is a two-liner /bin/cp /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases /etc/mail/mailman.aliases /usr/bin/newaliases (6) copy the old local customization at end of mm_cfg.py, in particularly the three lines used to fake the MTA to be postfix while it is sendmail, and using the above script for aliases (delivery is SMTP direct) (7) in /etc/sysconfig/mailman set MAILMAN_MAIL_GID="daemon" Now according to the old procedure at this step one should issue command SuSEconfig -module mailman but this seems not to be working. So it is NECESSARY to edit manually file /etc/mailman/mailman.mail.gid and insert there "2" (the gid of daemon) FAILURE TO DO THIS GENERATES THE GID MISMATCH ERROR MENTIONED ABOVE (8) (re)start apache, sendmail and mailman -- Lucio Chiappetti - INAF/IASF - via Bassini 15 - I-20133 Milano (Italy) For more info : http://www.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/personal.html "All that is google does not glitter Nor all who use alpine/procmail are lost" -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Digest formatting--clickable TOC?
On Tue, 6 Sep 2016, Matt Morgan wrote: Now that I understand them, I think I'll start using MIME digests them for myself when I can. And I like offering the option. The question is more, what would I use as the default? And I think honestly that putting everyone on MIME digests would substantially decrease readership on this list. On the list I manage I do not use digests as default, although I recommend them. Digests have one advantage which is also a disadvantage under certain situations. - Digests are sent with all mails packed together either at a predefined time (usually once per day at midday) OR when they exceeed a given size - ... so you will NOT receive messages in real time - this can be an advantage on lists with a large traffic and/or a large amount of "noise" (uninteresting messages). I do advise using digests for the internal discussion list of our nationwide organization (several hundred members). Reading messages once per day cools down the discussion. It also diminishes the disturbance of receiving a lot of mail asking for attention (I do use digests for "professional wide-spectrum" lists, like this one where I can discard a fraction of messages as not interesting or not concerning me, usually just by scanning through the subjects) - this is a disadvantage for professional narrow-spectrum lists where quick reply is required. In this case I do avoid digests so that I can receive messages in real time (mailman is still good in providing a common reference archive for all members). Usually these lists have few members, and act orderly (no noise, no flames). -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Digest formatting--clickable TOC?
On Fri, 2 Sep 2016, Matt Morgan wrote: The eventual publication looks a lot like a mailman digest, and that's what I'm switching it to. I see that over the weekend there was some discussion about digests, not only in this thread ! I understand that mailman can do digests as a series of MIME attachments to the TOC email, one for each posting. I don't think that's going to work for this crowd, although I'm not sure. Personally I do use MIME digests (not plain text ones) for almost all the lists I'm subscribed to (actually ALL which allow it). But then my MUA (Alpine) with some customization (including a formail-based shell script) can turn the MIME digests into a temporary mail folder, where I can access each posting as a normal e-mail. And even if I would not have my scripts, I could still natively view the attachment index and access the RFC822 attachment one by one as a normal e-mail. -- Lucio Chiappetti - INAF/IASF - via Bassini 15 - I-20133 Milano (Italy) For more info : http://www.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/personal.html Do not like Firefox >=29 ? Get Pale Moon ! http://www.palemoon.org -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] How to actively read the list online?
On Wed, 13 Jul 2016, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: Lucio Chiappetti writes: > Anyhow, getting a self-refreshing html page is just a matter of adding a > tag to the Sure, but if the page itself is static (as in a conventional mailing list archive), that won't help. The archive host has to be prepared to feed *new* pages, not refresh the old one, when accessed. Might be not that different (although perhaps is an overkill). There is no much difference in refreshing a page with a click of the user, and having the browser requesting a refresh with a meta-equiv-refresh if the underlying page has changed. I do use the trick with some of my pages, some are CGI scripts which auto-refresh, but in other cases the page can be modified by a crontab script (I say overkill because if the meta-equiv-refresh asks for a refresh every minute, and the crontab updates the page every 15-30 min most of the refresh will be void) Consider a standard mailman thread archive like e.g. https://listmgr.nrao.edu/pipermail/fitsbits/2016-July/thread.html If somebody will make a new post, and I reload the archive page, I will see the new message (I use this trick to verify a message was archived after I sent it). If one could MODIFY the standard format of the archive page in mailman to prepend the meta-equiv-refresh (and I do not know how easy is that. I've never personalised any of the mailman HTML pages although I know for some is possible, maybe one has to patch code) ... that would do the trick. -- ---- Lucio Chiappetti - INAF/IASF - via Bassini 15 - I-20133 Milano (Italy) For more info : http://www.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/personal.html Do not like Firefox >=29 ? Get Pale Moon ! http://www.palemoon.org -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] How to actively read the list online?
On Tue, 12 Jul 2016, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: The problem is that a typical web forum these days is not a static page, it's a web app that is self-refreshing. So as a forumn user, you have a window or tab opened on the forum, you go to bed, and in the morning the page is 11 posts longer than when you left. I see. Not sure how "typical" such behaviour is. Personally (coming from Usenet, and used to read Usenet forums, i.e. newsgroups, via a MAIL client) I sort-of hate forums, or at least the "maze of little forums all different". I can stand only PhpBB operated forums, and these are NOT auto-refreshing (or at least they aren't in the way I use them ... I do keep the forum permanently logged on, but I press a "new posts" button to refresh the page when I WANT to see if there are new messages ... since threads are archived in reverse chronological order, most recent first, I have to take note of the time of the most recent message before clicking to see whether there is anything new or not after clicked. In my opinion a forum is little more than a chat, and I do not care about it being archived forever (although de facto PhpBB forums do it, Usenet feeds expired after a while), while a mailing list archive is something for serious work. In this case a reference to a PRECISE url for that message on that date of that month is mandatory. Anyhow, getting a self-refreshing html page is just a matter of adding a tag to the Not sure if there is an easy provision to customize the mailman archive pages with such a tag -- -------- Lucio Chiappetti - INAF/IASF - via Bassini 15 - I-20133 Milano (Italy) For more info : http://www.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/personal.html Do not like Firefox >=29 ? Get Pale Moon ! http://www.palemoon.org -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] How to actively read the list online?
On Fri, 8 Jul 2016, Mark Sapiro wrote: On 7/7/16 3:33 PM, Richard Johnson wrote: Is there any way to setup a web page which would automatically update to show the most recent messages in the archive? It depends on whether the list's archives are public or not. [...] For private archives, you would need an authentication scheme which would presumably need to talk to Mailman. I have been participating in discussion lists both with public and private archives (as well as in usenet newsgroups :-)) and managing some of them locally or remotely *using the mailman native archiving* and I do not see any difference or difficulties between the two. Usually the archive (all those which I have seen are by month, and can be sorted by thread, date or author) is updated as soon as I receive a copy of a post. It is true that in case of private archives the users will have to autenticate on the mailman site. I.e. they have to be mailing list members. So your problem is that some former users do not want to receive a mail but JUST access the archives ? They could be members of the mailing list set to "NO MAIL", couldn't they ? (I have a small, 25 or so members list, where 22 are full (voting) members, and 3 are observers (former members). All receive normal messages, but when I issue a call-for-votes I set the 3 observers to NO MAIL, send the message, then reset them to normal mail reception. This simply prevents the observers to send me back votes which will not be counted anyhow.) -- -------- Lucio Chiappetti - INAF/IASF - via Bassini 15 - I-20133 Milano (Italy) For more info : http://www.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/personal.html Do not like Firefox >=29 ? Get Pale Moon ! http://www.palemoon.org -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] using topics
I am one of the co-moderators of a restricted discussion list within our organization (a nationwide research institution). The list is restricted in the sense posting is allowed to subscribers only, and subscription is allowed only to staff, associates, and former members. So far we allowed also communications from the trade unions, in the sense they post a (signed) message from a non member account, it stops into moderation and one of the co-moderator lets it pass. We could have used also accept_these_nonmembers (as we do for recognized subscribers who post from alternate addresses) but since the various trade unions correspondents did not use a fixed address we did not do it. Now the trade unions requested to be allowed to subscribe as regular users from a fixed address, which would relieve us moderators from the need of manual acceptance. I hope this won't cause an excess of trade union related messages with respect to other messages, which can be resented by some of our users. I thought one possibility was to enable "topics", to allow users to decide whether they want to see such messages or not. I have some questions about topics. - can a user select to receive all messages EXCLUDING a particular topic ? It looks like the interface allows to subscribe to one topic, and also to receive topic-less messages ... but what about one wants to receive ONLY topic-less messages ? Assuming messages are classified as : - topic trade union - no topic Shall one create a dummy placeholder topic which will be never populated ? or how can one assign a default topic ? - can the mailman administrator assign topics based on the originator address instead of Subject or Keyword or regexp in the first n lines ? This may allow to tag the topics automatically (instead of relying on the originator using special tags, which is sort of hopeless) If it helps, the list is managed by mailman 2.1.12 and is not on a computer in my institute (I have 2.1.14 on my machine which I use for other lists). Neither me nor the administrators of the central site are keen to change. but if a more recent version is more suited for this sort of filtering we might consider it. Thanks -- -------- Lucio Chiappetti - INAF/IASF - via Bassini 15 - I-20133 Milano (Italy) For more info : http://www.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/personal.html Do not like Firefox >=29 ? Get Pale Moon ! http://www.palemoon.org -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] permission for archives
On Tue, 16 Jun 2015, Mark Sapiro wrote: 2) apparently since the wrong permission were setup, archiving stopped to work. Is there a way to rebuild the archives from messages stored in personal folders (I am not sure I have all of them though !) Just fix the permissions and run Mailman's bin/unshunt ... GREAT ! Thanks a lot ! I recovered all the backlog ! I suspect this may be due to the fact a while ago I created some soft links from my own ~/.mail directory e.g. fitsconv.mbox - /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/fitsconv.mbox/fitsconv.mbox (the links are owned by me and have lrwxrwxrwx) Actually I had already reset the permissions for the archive folders (I simply enabled archive for a test list to see the fresh permission, and applied them to the old folders). This enabled archiving of new messages. But I was missing the shunt piece. Additional symlinks to the file are irrelevant unless you are writing to it (you shouldn't be) and changing its group. I cannot trace how they were (systematically for 3 lists) set to the wrong way. Now my alpine mail client enters the folders and sees them in READONLY mode (which is good), and refuses to delete messages (which is also good). If I enter a message flagged new (unread), it will set its flag to read ... maybe this is what mislead me ... but this is obviously an internal memory flag of the client. If I exit and re-enter the folder, I see the original status. Which for me is fine. Going back to digest mode ... -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] permission for archives
I am running a few mailing lists with private archive on my machine. I see that /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/ contains two directories per list one named listname and the other one listname.mbox. Owned by wwwrun.mailman, permissions drwxrwsr-x The listname directory contains one index.html owned by wwwrun.mailman while all other directories and text files are owned by mailman.mailman. The listname.mbox directory contains a single file with the same name. Now I noticed that at present such file is owned by me (lucio.staff) with permissions -rw-rw-r-- And I see in the log files some error messages like Jun 16 07:02:26 2015 (3112) Uncaught runner exception: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/fitsconv.mbox/fitsconv.mbox' I suspect this may be due to the fact a while ago I created some soft links from my own ~/.mail directory e.g. fitsconv.mbox - /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/fitsconv.mbox/fitsconv.mbox (the links are owned by me and have lrwxrwxrwx) The idea was that I could, as administrator, access the entire sequence of messages of a list from my mail client (alpine), instead than with the web interface. Of course I'd just need read access, not write. 1) which are the correct permissions ? 2) apparently since the wrong permission were setup, archiving stopped to work. Is there a way to rebuild the archives from messages stored in personal folders (I am not sure I have all of them though !) -- Lucio Chiappetti - INAF/IASF - via Bassini 15 - I-20133 Milano (Italy) For more info : http://www.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/personal.html Do not like Firefox =29 ? Get Pale Moon ! http://www.palemoon.org -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] What would your dream Mailman web interface look like?
Sorry if I enter now in the thread at an arbitrary point. Sincerely I'm rather happy with the *current* mailman interface, and in particular I'm used to it. Considered that there should be quite a large base of mailman lists around, that they are unlikely to migrate to a new UI soon, and that list administrator tasks are something one does rather seldom ... ... e.g. I administrate a very small list (10 subscribers) on my machine (probably will add a couple soon), I moderate a quite larger (1000 subscribers) nationwide on a server in another city, and administrate a couple intermediate ones (~300 and 20 subscribers) in another continent, while I do not count the lists I'm subscribed as a user ... ... and the frequency of access as archive user / moderating out spam / customizing my user profile / customizing list parameters / initial setup of a list goes in decreasing order ... ... my main requisite would be that any new mailman UI remains as close as possible to the current one (or has a way to revert to it) !!! Possibly the only real improvement (change) I'd like would be in the way to go through the subscriber list (e.g. scroll alphabetically, or search users who have a specific flag settings). -- Lucio Chiappetti - INAF/IASF - via Bassini 15 - I-20133 Milano (Italy) For more info : http://www.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/personal.html Do not like Firefox =29 ? Get Pale Moon ! http://www.palemoon.org -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] I'd prefer clients had collapsing features, not top-post; do away with mailing list digests
On Thu, 2 Apr 2015, Tanstaafl wrote: On 4/2/2015 1:45 PM, J.B. Nicholson-Owens j...@forestfield.org wrote: I also think we should stop offering mailing list digests Nobody forbids you as list administrator to stop offering digests on YOUR lists. But why would you like to forbid digests to administrators and users who appreciate it ? The main reason I may choose a digest version of a list is if it is high-volume, and/or I am more of a lurker than participant. In such a case digests makes the Inbox (or folder if they are filtered to one) less cluttered. I could not have said it better. -- Lucio Chiappetti - INAF/IASF - via Bassini 15 - I-20133 Milano (Italy) For more info : http://www.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/personal.html Do not like Firefox =29 ? Get Pale Moon ! http://www.palemoon.org -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] The right way to reply to a mailing list
On Wed, 25 Mar 2015, Peter Shute wrote: Have you ever been in the situation where you're waiting ... Many of us deal with this by creating a message rule that filters the unimportant list mail to a folder to be read at leisure. I have procmail rules which filter particular e-mails to particular folders which I check once per day, but for the mailing list in normal operation I prefer to receive a (sort-of-daily) MIME digest in my main inbox. I have two rules which divert mailing list posts to two folders when I am on holiday (so I can check the main inbox remotely with less messages): one of them is actually linked to /dev/null and is for what I call secondary lists, the other one collects the posts of the primary lists to be read when I return. It is also possible (at least in mailman lists) to set one's own subscription to nomail, but if one has many lists, it's too boring to do it (and reset it later) for each list, easier to filter collectively. -- Lucio Chiappetti - INAF/IASF - via Bassini 15 - I-20133 Milano (Italy) For more info : http://www.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/personal.html Do not like Firefox =29 ? Get Pale Moon ! http://www.palemoon.org -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] The right way to reply to a mailing list
On Mon, 23 Mar 2015, Lindsay Haisley wrote: I know of exactly one that's proper in this regard. One of the reasons I keep Evolution as my primary MUA is because it allows me to extract a message/rfc822 part from a multipart/mixed MIME structure and save it _as an email_ in the mail folder of my choice, at which point I can deal with it as I wish. Same behaviour I get with alpine (although not native, see below). T-bird doesn't do this, or didn't used to. Certainly Apple mail products don't even come close, nor do Microsoft MUAs. Does anyone know of any others that can do this? I tried T-bird only to help a friend to stay away from Microsoft MUAs, or ISP webmailers. I was deluded about it (for instance the way to handle the addressbook in alpine is far superior) but did not try MIME digest handling. I did not try Fossa-Mail (which stays to T-bird the same way Palemoon stays to Firefox). Did not try Mutt (of which I heard much good). People here use either Alpine, or Kmail, or Squirrel web mailer or T-bird. To be fair, the native handling of MIME digests in Alpine is far from elegant. You can View the index of the digest (as the index of attachments in any multipart message), and if you point to one of the message/rfc822 components in the (crowded) index and click, it will open it as an e-mail. I overcame this using the capability of pine to program user keystrokes, and to feed messages in external scripts. So I point to the digest message, and type a capital D. That will spawn a one-liner script and then move to the folder contains the expanded digest. The one-liner uses a procmail utility to split the digest into a folder: formail +1 -ds ! /poseidon/lucio/mail/temporary -- Lucio Chiappetti - INAF/IASF - via Bassini 15 - I-20133 Milano (Italy) For more info : http://www.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/personal.html Do not like Firefox =29 ? Get Pale Moon ! http://www.palemoon.org -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] The right way to reply to a mailing list
On Mon, 23 Mar 2015, Thomas Gramstad wrote: On Mon, 23 Mar 2015, Lucio Chiappetti wrote: Subscribing in digest mode allows me to receive one cumulative post per day which is something many people can appreciate (at least those who subscribe to mailing list, and then complain because they are interrupted in their work by too many new mails arriving) A proper MUA shall allow to read each message in the digest as if it were a single e-mail (and reply, archive, forward etc. etc.). But people don't have proper MUAs, or if they do, many don't know how to use them. Well, sorry, too bad for them ! :-) So if you allow the digest version Digest version is something the (knowledgeable) user enables in the personal setting. I may agree it would not be a good idea for the list administrator to configure a list to send MIME digests *as default*, but it is good for users to be able to enable them. -- Lucio Chiappetti - INAF/IASF - via Bassini 15 - I-20133 Milano (Italy) For more info : http://www.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/personal.html Do not like Firefox =29 ? Get Pale Moon ! http://www.palemoon.org -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] The right way to reply to a mailing list
On Tue, 24 Mar 2015, Thomas Gramstad wrote: On Tue, 24 Mar 2015, Lucio Chiappetti wrote: On Mon, 23 Mar 2015, Thomas Gramstad wrote: On Mon, 23 Mar 2015, Lucio Chiappetti wrote: digest mode allows o receive one cumulative post per day which is something many people can appreciate (at least those who complain because they are interrupted in their work by too many new mails arriving) How can mail interrupt? I am not saying I am one of those who are so annoyed when for instance one gets me too replies on an internal organization discussion list (or simply condolences for an obituary of a colleague) ... in which case I suggest them to use digest mode. However mailing lists are usually a second priority to our main activity, be they discussion or technical support ones. So while it is good to reply asap to a person-to-person mail message, it is also good to wait to deal with mailing list messages. This is less distracting, allows to cool down discussions, to enforce the rule of one-post-per-day in the policy of some mailing lists etc. etc. ... so thanks to mailman authors for having it ! But people don't have proper MUAs, or if they do, many don't know how to use them. Well, sorry, too bad for them ! :-) Digest version is something the (knowledgeable) user enables in the personal setting. As list owner / moderator I can decide to disable this setting, It is surely in your power and rights :-) which is something many people appreciate, as it prevents hard to read comments on big blobs of text, and dysfunctional Subject: lines. Usually the clueless which will reply to a digest are the same clueless who are unable to turn it on if it is off by default, and the same clueless unable to find a proper MUA and use it. As list owner / moderator I can decide to disable this setting, ... Well, sorry, too bad for them ! :-) Or pity for them :-) ... the poor knowledgeable users -- Lucio Chiappetti - INAF/IASF - via Bassini 15 - I-20133 Milano (Italy) For more info : http://www.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/personal.html Do not like Firefox =29 ? Get Pale Moon ! http://www.palemoon.org -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] The right way to reply to a mailing list
On Fri, 20 Mar 2015, J.B. Nicholson-Owens wrote: Every modern (typically GUI) MUA I know of has ... I use a non-GUI MUA (Alpine) and I find it has all the features I can imagine to want (some of which were user programmed) I think modern MUAs in widespread use (with the exception of Thunderbird and its derivatives) don't do proper threading. Alpine has threading, but I have not enabled it for e-mail (while I use it for Usenet newsgroups ... am I old enough ? :-)). If I want to go back to a thread in a mailing list discussion (which I do not archive locally), I go to the list archive. For personal (work) correspondence I need no threading. I archive message in separate folders by project/topic, and I can zoom in by subject. -- Lucio Chiappetti - INAF/IASF - via Bassini 15 - I-20133 Milano (Italy) For more info : http://www.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/personal.html Do not like Firefox =29 ? Get Pale Moon ! http://www.palemoon.org -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] The right way to reply to a mailing list
On Sat, 21 Mar 2015, Al Black wrote: Further to the point, between top posting and lack of editing, the digest format of list posts are essentially unreadable. Do you mean the MIME digests produced by mailman ? I totally disagree, they are one of the best features. Subscribing in digest mode allows me to receive one cumulative post per day (about, unless there is more traffic) and deal with them not interrupting my other activities. A proper MUA shall allow to read each message in the digest as if it were a single e-mail (and reply, archive, forward etc. etc.). In the case of my MUA (Alpine) I've programmed it so that a single keystroke (for me it is capital D) will expand the digest in a temporary folder where I deal with individual messages. -- Lucio Chiappetti - INAF/IASF - via Bassini 15 - I-20133 Milano (Italy) For more info : http://www.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/personal.html Do not like Firefox =29 ? Get Pale Moon ! http://www.palemoon.org -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] The right way to reply to a mailing list
Usenet over UUCP via 300 baud modems on backbone servers with 5MB disks.[1] I adverse top-posting (and entire quoting of the whole replied message, or worst, thread) NOT because it is wasting bandwidth, NOT because it is wasting diskspace when archived ... but because it is disturbing to me to archive in each new message the entire content I already archived in the previous ones of the same thread. Of course assuming we are talking of a serious correspondence worth being archived, not a chat. -- Lucio Chiappetti - INAF/IASF - via Bassini 15 - I-20133 Milano (Italy) For more info : http://www.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/personal.html Do not like Firefox =29 ? Get Pale Moon ! http://www.palemoon.org -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] The right way to reply to a mailing list
On Fri, 20 Mar 2015, Andrew Stuart wrote: When I reply to a message on a mailing list, what is the ???right??? way to do it? Not sure if there is a right way for everybody. Definitely there is a way I like it to happen and ways which I find extremely annoying. Should I be deleting previous thread text from my response? For me, yes please do. Should I be adding anything in? Your contribution, unless it is me too :-) Talking seriously. I think there are two separate matters. Knowledgeable users may program their MUA (or Mail Delivery Agent) to follow their preferences almost in any case. It is more difficult for a list administrator or a poster to force all correspondents to follow a given policy. - One matter is : to whom shall the reply go ? Here the list administrator has the power to set a preference for the list (reply goes to poster, reply goes to list or eventually even redirect the reply or block it ... the same can occur for a single circular mail with appropriate header tweaking), and the user with a proper MUA should have the capability to reset the preference to what he likes. In most cases lists are DISCUSSION lists, so in this case MY preference is that the reply shall go to the list ONLY and not ALSO to the poster, Clever list managers properly configured will avoid sending duplicate replyes if sent to the list and to one list member. I am annoyed when this does not work and I receive two copies, but I just check the message id and remove one redundant copy. If the list is not configured for reply to list, if it is a list I use rarely I just do Reply All, this will compose the header to send to poster and list, and I remove the poster address. (and of course there are case in which I WANT to respond privately so I remove the list address) For lists I use regularly I have configured my Alpine MUA to use a role which replies just to the list. There are cases of lists for which a reply to the list is unwanted. I remember a technical list on which replies to the posts (which were sort of help requests) were FORBIDDEN, Replies went to the OP, which had the commitment at the end to post a summary. It worked quite nicely because members were disciplined people. Other cases when a reply is unwanted are circular messages, like conference announcements. This applies also to messages sent to a distribution list (not an exploder). Proper usage of headers like Bcc: or better Lcc: (supported by Alpine) and Reply-To should automatize the fact replies go only to the poster. - The other matter is : top posting, bottom posting, no quoting, trimmed quoting Here I definitely hate top posting, but I am also annoyed by the fact that people quote entire messages, and so by the fact I will save to a folder many copies of redundant text I already had in the previous message. In this case I have instructed my mail delivery agent (procmail) to filter out the unwanted stuff (since I could not educate my correspondents) http://sax.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/Procmail/noquotenohtml.html So my preference is to either reply with my contribution, or trim the original text to the parts I want to reply, and interleave my answers. This very message is an example (to do multiply interleaving, i.e. reply to more posters, I have to pass via an external clipboard) On Thu, 19 Mar 2015, Mark Sapiro wrote: I do understand that in some business situations (contract negotiations, attorney/client communication and the like), it is useful and pretty much demanded that each message contain the full transcript of what went before, but this has no place on an email discussion list. I do agree that sending copy of a full correspondence is rarely a case for a mailing list, unless perhaps one wants to inform a new subscriber of past correspondence If the mailing list supports archiving, the easiest way to do it is to refer the new subscriber to the archives. If one wants instead to inform a new team member of past correspondence exchanged with other recipients outside of a mailing list, a nice way is to forward him a MIME digest of all past messages (with Alpine one can easily select a block of messages and Apply Forward ... one can also unpack a digest into a folder, but that's more tricky) -- Lucio Chiappetti - INAF/IASF - via Bassini 15 - I-20133 Milano (Italy) For more info : http://www.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/personal.html Do not like Firefox =29 ? Get Pale Moon ! http://www.palemoon.org -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable
Re: [Mailman-Users] Digest indexes
On Fri, 19 Dec 2014, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: Lucio Chiappetti writes: I hope it is allowed to post a few screendumps to demonstrate Unfortunately, Mailman @python.org doesn't pass those, OK, should be here (do not know why first got a different name) http://i62.tinypic.com/2l94j5s.png http://tinypic.com/r/syv5mu/8 http://tinypic.com/r/33ykoyc/8 Actually, most Emacs-based MUAs are able to treat digests as folders by default. No customizations required. Then you are beyond my mark, and possibly both about average user. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Digest indexes
On Tue, 16 Dec 2014, Andrew Hodgson wrote: I run a high volume list (around 80 messages per day), and we have complaints from digest users that the digests are difficult to work with. I am subscribed in MIME digest mode to all lists which support them. I find they are a great way to receive messages once per day (more or less) without being pestered by single messages as they come. Good mail user agents (MUAs) should have a way to deal with MIME digests internally. I am not familiar (nor comfortable) with modern MUAs (GUI-driven), since I use good old alpine. The default way of alpine to deal with digests is slightly awkward. One presses V to View the digest index (which is not in a nice shape to read, I admit), then moves the current line on one of the RFC/822 items, and clicks, and accesses the individual message as a normal mail. My way uses a custom key (D) to which I assigned the execution of a one-liner script which contains formail +1 -ds ! ~/mail/temporary this splits the digest into a mail folder. The same key then goes to the index of the folder, so one can access each message as if it were a normal mail. I presume all good MUAs should have a way to deal with MIME digests, it is just a matter for the user to find it. If you can find it for the most common MUAs used by your users, then you could write instructions in a FAQ -- Lucio Chiappetti - INAF/IASF - via Bassini 15 - I-20133 Milano (Italy) For more info : http://www.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/personal.html Do not like Firefox =29 ? Get Pale Moon ! http://www.palemoon.org -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Digest indexes
On Wed, 17 Dec 2014, Peter Shute wrote: On 17 Dec 2014, at 8:58 pm, Lucio Chiappetti wrote: I am subscribed in MIME digest mode to all lists which support them. I find they are a great way to receive messages once per day (more or less) without being pestered by single messages as they come. So you have found a way to bypass the digest and pestering me ! :-) this splits the digest into a mail folder. So this breaks the digest into separate emails? Wouldn't it be simpler to have a message rule that diverts the individual emails into a folder on arrival instead of using digest mode? Or doesn't Alpine support that kind of thing? technically speaking, on arrival pertains to a mail delivery agent, and not to a MUA, which may operate when first entered by the user. Perhaps it is possible to use Alpine filter rules, but I never tried them and am not familiar with them. On the other hand formail is part of procmail, which IS a delivery agent (actually on my SuSE it is the default delivery agent of sendmail). Any filtering on arrival can be more or less easily done with procmail. I do an extensive use of it http://sax.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/Procmail/ So you could do what you propose straight with procmail ! It is mainly a matter of user preferences (YMMV ?) I do divert some specific messages to specific folders, seminar announcements for one, and different level of spam for another. Concerning mailing lists, I consider them of a more transient nature, I am not interested in keeping their messages forever. So the MIME digest mechanism is fine insofar I want to receive all messages of the day at one moment. Then I usually look at the list of messages (almost all digests I know, notably the ones generated by mailman, have a list of subjects close to the top) ... if I see no subjects which interest me I just delete the entire digest. If I see something interesting, I press D, expand in a temporary folder, read the messages and reply to or archive the few really interesting ones. I actually do use procmail on mailing lists to divert their messages (which usually are entire digests) to a specific folder when on vacation. We can have pretty long vacations in this country :-) I have divided the lists I am subscribed to in two categories and so have just two folders, one per category. For the less interesting lists, when I am away I divert them to /dev/null. For the most interesting lsits, I divert them to a cumulative folder, so I can read them when I am back. This way my INBOX is not cluttered with mailing list messages, but only with messages from invididuals. This makes easy to sort the backlog when I return. Or to access the INBOX via a webmailer (which I may do once or twice per vacation period ... I am not the type which needs to be permanently connected :-)) -- Lucio Chiappetti - INAF/IASF - via Bassini 15 - I-20133 Milano (Italy) For more info : http://www.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/personal.html Do not like Firefox =29 ? Get Pale Moon ! http://www.palemoon.org -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mac, me, icloud. Many domains one user.
On Wed, 15 Oct 2014, Marino Pascal wrote: I know how to add addresses with the accept_these_nonmembers Option That's the way I sort-of-regularly use. We have mailing lists inside our nationwide organization (inaf.it), where, for historical reasons, each of our 22 institutes may have 2-3 different subdomains. In general each user chooses freely which subdomain to use. If this does not match the address one subscribed, the message stops in moderation. Usually the first of the co-moderators to unlock the message inserts the address in accept_these_nonmembers (which can be done with just a tick), if he remembers to do it. The other way is to force an user to use the subscribed address only. In fact what I said above for accept_these_nonmembers works for the public discussion list. There are other more institutional lists where the member list is regenerated automatically weekly from the payrolls (and uses an official address which the user cannot change). But these are one-to-many (or centre-to-periphery) lists, where users very rarely *post* to the list. Some Mail User Agents allow to define a role when posting to a specific address, so in this case the knowledgeable user may define such a role, which uses the official, although not his preferred, address when posting to the institutional lists. However if the patch to deal with multiple domains for one user becomes an official feature (perhaps mantained via the web interface), it might be an interesting feature. -- Lucio Chiappetti - INAF/IASF - via Bassini 15 - I-20133 Milano (Italy) For more info : http://www.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/personal.html Do not like Firefox =29 ? Get Pale Moon ! http://www.palemoon.org -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] multiple mailing list passwords
On Fri, 30 May 2014, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: acceptable to him either, as far as I can see he's very concerned about security. Well, I'm personally NOT very concerned about security. But for my bank account (protected by one-shot hardware key), my payslip, and perhaps my health service records (protected by one-shot cell-phone sent key), I tend to use when possible one key to access generic web sites. In this case it might be that the entity managing the mailman server is more concerned than I am, and so I'm bound to respect their way. Anyhow, I found a suitable workaround for my problem, so for me this issue is closed. Thanks for your interest. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] multiple mailing list passwords
On Wed, 28 May 2014, Tanstaafl wrote: You can create multiple accounts for the same URL with passwordmaker, so I think you just don';t understand totally how it works. That's quite possible. I did not install it, but read the online documentation, and I gathered that it GENERATES passwords to be used on remote sites, requiring to CHANGE those currently in use. Did I understand wrong ? On 5/27/2014 6:11 AM, Lucio Chiappetti wrote: Unfortunately this presupposes the ability to change the remote lsit admin password, which in my case is fixed since it is shared by various co-moderators Sorry, but I have no idea what you meant here. Well, on one hand I meant that I MUST use the CURRENT passwords for the remote site, because such password is used by other people too ! I guess it is not uncommon that the role of moderator of a mailman mailing list is shared among different people (often in completely different countries so that almost all timezones are covered). On the other hand (and this is mailman specific), the web pages I was referring to are the mailman list administrator authentication pages. They are not properly accounts as they contain just a password field but no username. Since apparently firefox password database keys on the triplet (server url, submit prefix, username), it is unable to save separate passwords if server url and submit prefix are the same and there is no username ! My workaround (see previous post) was to make a local copy of the web pages, adding a fake (different) username in a disabled control. I hope it is clearer now -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] multiple mailing list passwords
On Mon, 26 May 2014, Tanstaafl wrote: On 5/26/2014 8:21 AM, Lucio Chiappetti wrote: Is anybody aware of any firefox add-on which allows to remember multiple password for one hostname (e.g. based on the full url of the list admin page) ? My all time favorite: www.passwordmaker.org Doesn't store passwords anywhere (generates the password on the fly Unfortunately this presupposes the ability to change the remote lsit admin password, which in my case is fixed since it is shared by various co-moderators I found a solution inspired by Saved Password Editor (but I'm not sure whether SPE is required, or just allows to see and edit what is normally stored by firefox anyhow. For SPE (and perhaps firefox by default) ... The lookup key for passwords in HTML forms consists of the host prefix, submit prefix, and username. If my mailing lists are on a remote server, and accessed via the usual mailman authentication form, the host prefix and submit prefix are the same. There is no username, so one cannot have separate entries for different mailing lists on the same server. My workaround was the following. 1) I made a local copy (Save Page As ... Web page HTML only) of the remote mailman authentication page 2) I edited the HEAD adding a BASE href=... pointing to the remote site (this is actually the submit prefix !!), so that actions, images, links point to the original site 3) I added a new input field. The mailman authentication pages have a sort of heading or title with listname Administrator Authentication. I replace the word listname with INPUT NAME=user VALUE=listname TYPE=text DISABLED 4) so I end up with three local pages, each with a different listname which can be captured as username, making therefore a distinct triplet (local host, submit prefix, username) ... for which distinct passwords can be captured and stored -- Lucio Chiappetti - INAF/IASF - via Bassini 15 - I-20133 Milano (Italy) For more info : http://www.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/personal.html -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] multiple mailing list passwords
I am one of the list administrator/moderator for several mailing lists, most of which aren't based on my machine (a few are in another continent), so I am not the site admin for them. In particular three of these are on the same machine, therefore my firefox is able to remember the password for one mailing list only (if I reply YES to the request to change the stored password, it remembers the one of the last mailing list visited). Is anybody aware of any firefox add-on which allows to remember multiple password for one hostname (e.g. based on the full url of the list admin page) ? (Preferably one which does NOT store password outside of the local machine) Thanks -- Lucio Chiappetti - INAF/IASF - via Bassini 15 - I-20133 Milano (Italy) For more info : http://www.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/personal.html -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] multiple mailing list passwords
On Mon, 26 May 2014, Adam McGreggor wrote: You might be able to set all passwords to be the same -- within your options page (e.g.,) I do use the same password for stuff which is mine only, but these are shared with other co-moderators. And apparently at NASA they are also over-concerned (I got the passwords by snail mail, on paper !!) Is anybody aware of any firefox add-on which allows to remember multiple password for one hostname (e.g. based on the full url of the list admin page) ? LastPass / 1password ? I should have added add-on for firefox ON LINUX. Apparently this 1password (which I did not find in the firefox add-on list) is not supported on Linux. I saw LastPass mentioned, but I gathered it stores passwords elsewhere than on my local machine (which I would not like). Is that correct ? Thanks anyhow -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] mass edit on a mailing list
Let us assume that a substantial fraction of members of a nationwide mailing list (say about 110 on 1135) have changed domain, i.e. u...@domain1.tld and u...@domain2.tld have now migrated to u...@domain2.tld Is there a way by which the *moderators* (which are sparse in different institutions and have access to the mailing list only via the web interface) can apply a mass edit (changing domain1 and domain2 into domain3) ? Or can that be done via line-mode commands only by the *administrator* (who has the list server in house) ? -- Lucio Chiappetti - INAF/IASF - via Bassini 15 - I-20133 Milano (Italy) Italian Research STILL at risk. La Ricerca italiana TUTTORA a rischio ! see http://sax.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/WWW/Opinions/nobrain3.html cfr -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] feature suggestion for digest mode ?
I have elected to receive the majority of the mailing lists I am subscribed to in mime digest mode (actually all the lists who support such a mode, which incidentally means all mailman-managed ones). Recently there was a discussion on the alpine lists about ways to automatically trigger (as an user preference in the MTA, not as a list preference in mailman or alike) that replies go to the list, not to the poster (I'm one of the 50% of the people who think that a discussion list is made for discussions not for person-to-person replies). This can be technically implemented in alpine as a role-setting rule triggered by some pattern in the e-mail message one is replying to. The suggestion was to use List-Id. However, if one receives from the list as a MIME digest (as I do), and accesses individual Message/RFC822 portions as if it were an individual e-mail (which I do via a key definition rule in alpine), these portions DO NOT CONTAIN ANY of the list management keywords. I guess a quick workaround for me would be to use the To: field instead of List-Id, but I wonder if a future mailman version could consider a way to include the list management keywords in the Message/RFC822 components ! -- Lucio Chiappetti - INAF/IASF - via Bassini 15 - I-20133 Milano (Italy) For more info : http://www.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/personal.html Wir muessen wissen / wir werden wissen Inscription on David Hilbert's grave http://tinyurl.com/3e5hfl -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] archives of sibling lists
I have set up (for a transitory activity lasting about one month) a couple of lists (A and B) with real subscribers, and an umbrella list C with no members, but having A and B as sibling lists. I have set up the lists with private archives. Now it is clear that members of A or B can access the archives of the respective list, using their e-mail and password. But who and how can access the archives of C ? Ideally all members of A and C should For some reason I can, but I'm the moderator and used the moderator passwords and probably there are some cookies that make the browser work anyhow. -- Lucio Chiappetti - INAF/IASF - via Bassini 15 - I-20133 Milano (Italy) For more info : http://www.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/personal.html -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Detecting mail with multiple From: lines
On Mon, 23 May 2011, Jay A. Sekora wrote: On Mon, 2011-05-23 at 11:06 -0400, Barry Warsaw wrote: What's the legitimate use case for multiple From headers? Mail sent on behalf of a group, such as mail from a committee or from the multiple authors of a paper, where you want people's individual addresses and names exposed But surely that does not require multiple From lines, like a message addressed to many persons does not have multiple To lines, but a To (or From) line consisting of a list of addresses. I've used myself a From (and/or a Reply-To) line listing more than one addresses (inserting them at MUA level in the ONLY From line allowed by the MUA), when I wanted replies forced to more than one address. -- Lucio Chiappetti - INAF/IASF - via Bassini 15 - I-20133 Milano (Italy) For more info : http://www.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/personal.html -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman admin question
On Thu, 21 Apr 2011, Mark Sapiro wrote: Ognen Duzlevski wrote: How do I find out what mailman join blah resolves to? I guess my question is ultimately - where do I look to find out who gets the join and subscribe requests? The MTA processes that ... I guess the OP did not want to know how mailman works, but who is the list administrator for list blah ... after all he inherited a system set up by somebody else. I hope somebody told him the master password ! I guess that doing http://hiswebaddress/mailman/admin he can see all the publicly advertised lists, and then enter each list administration panel. And if the list is not public, he should be able to do http://hiswebaddress/mailman/admin/blah Is that what the OP was asking ? -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] accept_these_nonmembers @ notation
On Tue, 12 Apr 2011, Mark Sapiro wrote: Lucio Chiappetti wrote: Only I noticed that nesting of sibling lists is not allowed (it does not work as expected). The sibling list feature, regular_include_lists and regular_exclude_lists does not work as you expect because it only affects recipients of posts to 'this list'. Now all is clear I have added a note about only one level of inclusion to the FAQ at http://wiki.list.org/x/TIA9. Thanks. The important thing is that one can make things work as it should creating umb1 with siblings listA listB umb2 with siblings listA listB listC this is equivalent to umb2 = umb1 + listC (which won't work). Since the definition is done only once there is no different effort required in setting up things with nesting or with flat one-level arrangement. Mailman is so smart that when sending to pseudoi send just to A,B and C and removes the duplicate to A+x. Great ! I don't think Mailman did this. Possibly it was the MTA or your MUA that dropped one of the (A, A+x) recipients, but I don't think Mailman will. The MUA could not have done that since it was unaware of the addresses (they were just list members). I verified (outside of mailman) that it is our MTA (sendmail) which does that, and it does it while sending. Subaddresses are preserved in the header if they were included (true for a plain sending, not true for a mailman sending). Since we use the same sendmail.cf on all our machines, this is fine for us. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] accept_these_nonmembers @ notation
On Mon, 11 Apr 2011, Mark Sapiro wrote: Lucio Chiappetti wrote: The help text for accept_these_nonmembers says [...] I cannot manage to have the @ notation working though. The first syntax without the space after the @ is the correct one. It is being rejected because a list cannot reference itself in *_these_nonmembers. You must put only '@pseudoastro' in accept_these_nonmembers of the pseudotecno list and vice versa. Thanks, I was trying to copy a common configurations for ALL lists from the first one with /usr/lib/mailman/bin/config_list -o and -i, so I thought to include all the lists in accept_these_nonmembers Now (listing all sibling lists EXCEPT itself) I can achieve what I want. I tried this in conjunction with sibling lists as defined in regular_include_lists. Of course in this case I use the full list name pseudoas...@poseidon.lambrate.inaf.it ... Only I noticed that nesting of sibling lists is not allowed (it does not work as expected). I created the following cases : list members siblings accept non members pseudoa A none pseudot pseudop * pseudot B none pseudoa pseudop * pseudos nonepseudoa pseudot pseudoa pseudot pseudop pseudop A+x(,C) none pseudoa pseudot * pseudoi nonepseudos pseudop pseudoa pseudot pseudop The three lists marked with * contain members (in the regime they will contain several members and they will be disjoinct, and there will be six such lists). The other two lists (no *) are umbrella lists. They have no members but only sibling lists. All the lists will be closed. Members of all real lists (and only they) can post to any of the lists. However with the configuration given above, list pseudoi, which is a 2-level umbrella list (one of the sibling has siblings) does not work. Message sent to it are never dispatched to pseudot. The SOLUTION is to avoid nesting. pseudoi siblings are all three level-0 lists pseudoa pseudot pseudop. This way it works. And it is also smart. Originally in pseudop I defined as member myself with a subaddress (A+x). This is not realistic but I did not want to annoy another colleague for the tests. Mailman is so smart that when sending to pseudoi send just to A,B and C and removes the duplicate to A+x. Great ! While when receiving, a subaddress is honoured (so if I post from e.g. lucio+fakenonmember, this triggers moderation). As it should be ! Maybe part of this information could go in a FAQ. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] cannot update regular_include_lists
upgraded mailman 2.1.14 (on suse 11.3 with bundled python 2.6) In addition to the unwanted behaviour with accept_these_nonmembers described in a previous post, I'm getting strange behaviour with regular_include_lists I want to make an umbrella listtwo lists, pseudoastro of which I'm the only member, and pseudotecno (with a colleague as member, and me as non member). Ideally I'd want to set up a list as template and then work for all others (we will have some 6 DISJOINCT lists with categories of our staff, we want to be able that members of each can post to any other [and in addition to set up some umbrella lists]) Notation @ pseudoastro @ pseudotecno fails at web level entry (Error: Invalid value for variable: accept_these_nonmembers) Notation (with a blank between @ and list name) @ pseudoastro @ pseudotecno gives an entry in the error log *_these_nonmembers in pseudotecno references non-existent list pseudoastro *_these_nonmembers in pseudotecno references non-existent list pseudotecno I tried capitalizing the first letter, adding the host and domain, using a notation list_host.domain (according to a posting found on the net), but in all cases I get the non-existent list error !! What's the correct syntax ? (and by the way ... are those checks to be considered effective as antispam measures ? do they just use the value of the header From field (which can be faked) or use info from the SMTP dialogue ? -- Lucio Chiappetti - INAF/IASF - via Bassini 15 - I-20133 Milano (Italy) For more info : http://www.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/personal.html -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] IGNORE message cannot update regular_include_lists
Please ignore half-edited message just sent. I should have cancelled it. It left by mistake. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] bug adding user, and archiving gets shunted
On Thu, 31 Mar 2011, Mark Sapiro wrote: This error is due to one of several known incompatibilities between Mailman versions older than 2.1.12 and Python 2.6 or later. See the FAQ at http://wiki.list.org/x/pYA9. I read the FAQ, which was however last updated in 2009. This MIGHT not be a problem, because I'm running tests (as a sort of power user) on my machine (suse 11.3 installed last december), but this is NOT the target system. I'm pretty sure the target system will have suse 11.4 which came out recently. suse 11.3 bundles mailman 2.1.11-13.2 and python 2.6.5-2.11 (however they provide separately mailman 2.1.14-21.1 and python 2.7-43.1) suse 11.4 bundles mailman 2.1.14-4.7.1 and python 2.7-8.2 (and provides also 2.7-43.1) I am really confused by all these minor subsubversions. Is the suse 11.4 mm/python coupling sound ? If so I will tell our sysadm to proceed, and pass on my test experience. I might do a few further tests on my machine and occasionally report problems here (be free to reply usual 2.1.11/2.6 incompatibility). Eventually I could upgrade mailman on my test machine (but not python) if that is likely to work (just to test also the upgrade procedure). If suse is packaging Mailman 2.1.11 with the Python 2.6.5 that you are apparently using, this is a serious suse packaging problem. I could report a bug, however if their 11.4 packaging is sound, they are likely to consider it irrelevant. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] separate mx, mailman and web host
On Wed, 30 Mar 2011, Mark Sapiro wrote: Lucio Chiappetti wrote: (QUESTION 5) The arrangement on the target system will be more complicated. because our aliases are mantained on the NIS master server. The master and slave servers are also the domain main and backup MX. However the web server is on a third machine. A configuration like the one I use on my test machine (local sendmail aliases inherited from local mailman aliases, which pipe into local mailman executables) is likely to work there ... I don't think I actually understand the configuration or what the problem is. Ultimately, mail to a list must be delivered to the Mailman machine, but I don't understand why the existing MXs can't relay it there or can they? So far not unless explicitly aliased. This is how I see it (and how our other things work currently). - all our e-mail are of the form user@domain NOT user@host.domain - all outgoing mail is masqueraded as user@domain by sendmail - the DNS advertises two MX's for the domain. We do not advertise MX's for particular hosts. Hosts other than MX's should have the SMTP port blocked by a firewall on the boundary router (we are several institutes in the same building, the boundary router is not managed by ours). - incoming mail of the form user@domain is delivered to other hosts via alias expansion managed by NIS. So some users get it delivered to user@personalhost, some other to user@projectimapserver. - our current mailing lists (e.g. staff@domain) are managed by :include: in the NIS aliases source, pointing to list of addresses in include files. The expansion works because all local hosts (including the MX's) can access (via NFS) the included files. We do manage both system lists (include file in a system directory) and project lists (include file in an user directory) We plan to replace those lists by mailman-managed lists. - mailman will be installed on a given host (I call it mmhost for the purposes of this mail, but the real name will be different). Most likely it will be our www server (www.domain where www is a CNAME for its real host name), NOT the MXs (the two MXs are redundant, and are also the primary and secondary DNS and NIS servers). - I know now that DEFAULT_URL_HOST shall point to www.domain (or perhaps a dedicated virtual www server) - I know now that DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST can be set to domain to make lists and service addresses of the form list@domain (preferred to list@mmhost.domain) - I know from my tests how to coerce sendmail and mailman to use (and automatically create) LOCAL aliases of the form listname: |/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post listname but of course THESE aliases are not suitable to be NIS aliases. /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman won't exist on the MXs and on the clients ! - I can imagine two ways out of it. a) having some manual or crontab operated script which for all mailman alias on the mmhost, replicates in the NIS aliases aliases of the form listname: listname@mmhost listname-owner : listname-owner@mmhost etc. b) renouncing to the listname@domain in favour of listname@mmhost.domain addresses, and doing some clever use of MX records and sendmail mailertable to route all mail for mmhost (firewalled from outside) to such machine PS I read also FAQs 4.84 and 4.72. Any more suitable for our configuration ? -- Lucio Chiappetti - INAF/IASF - via Bassini 15 - I-20133 Milano (Italy) For more info : http://www.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/personal.html -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] bug adding user, and archiving gets shunted
On Wed, 30 Mar 2011, Mark Sapiro wrote: Lucio Chiappetti wrote: - when subscribing an user (myself) to [any] list via the web interface I get the message on the screen Bug in Mailman version 2.1.11 We're sorry, we hit a bug! Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs. I confirm that despite the fact this message is shown on the web page, I receive the regular confirmation message, and if I click on the provided URL I am regularly subscribed. The logs show nothing strange except /var/lib/mailman/logs/error I cleared all logs and qfiles before restarting mailman, and did a single subscribe test on a new list (creation goes ok). I attach the error log (I hope an attachment is ok for the list policy) The error is generated at the same time the confirmation request is sent. -- Lucio Chiappetti - INAF/IASF - via Bassini 15 - I-20133 Milano (Italy) For more info : http://www.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/personal.html Mar 31 18:25:40 2011 admin(23714): admin(23714): [- Mailman Version: 2.1.11 -] admin(23714): [- Traceback --] admin(23714): Traceback (most recent call last): admin(23714): File /usr/lib/mailman/scripts/driver, line 101, in run_main admin(23714): main() admin(23714): File /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/subscribe.py, line 96, in main admin(23714): process_form(mlist, doc, cgidata, language) admin(23714): File /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/subscribe.py, line 176, in process_form admin(23714): mlist.AddMember(userdesc, remote) admin(23714): File /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py, line 916, in AddMember admin(23714): raise Errors.MMSubscribeNeedsConfirmation admin(23714): TypeError: exceptions must be old-style classes or derived from BaseException, not str admin(23714): [- Python Information -] admin(23714): sys.version = 2.6.5 (r265:79063, Jul 5 2010, 11:46:13) [GCC 4.5.0 20100604 [gcc-4_5-branch revision 160292]] admin(23714): sys.executable = /usr/bin/python admin(23714): sys.prefix = /usr admin(23714): sys.exec_prefix = /usr admin(23714): sys.path= /usr admin(23714): sys.platform= linux2 admin(23714): [- Environment Variables -] admin(23714): HTTP_COOKIE: prova+admin=280200695ac7914d73280030393831343564643362396466653434626237313463323738353632353733373339666139663662; provalist+admin=28020069dc49934d7328006135656264616138396438386330396233353361393430376264346334353931333839336332; mailman+admin=28020069684d934d73280062393365343830383463303965306238623666353732343637643131393962396432306561613135; newprova+user+lucio--at--lambrate.inaf.it=28020069b063934d7328003363623437316130336235303038643264386231636364653535303832333239343331656438; SESSIONID=To1011mC44031660979444665At admin(23714): SERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache/2.2.15 (Linux/SUSE) admin(23714): SCRIPT_NAME: /mailman/subscribe admin(23714): SERVER_SIGNATURE: addressApache/2.2.15 (Linux/SUSE) Server at sax.iasf-milano.inaf.it Port 80/address admin(23714): admin(23714): REQUEST_METHOD: POST admin(23714): HTTP_KEEP_ALIVE: 115 admin(23714): SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.1 admin(23714): QUERY_STRING: admin(23714): CONTENT_LENGTH: 133 admin(23714): HTTP_ACCEPT_CHARSET: ISO-8859-1,utf-8;q=0.7,*;q=0.7 admin(23714): HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.12) Gecko/20101026 SUSE/3.6.12-0.7.1 Firefox/3.6.12 admin(23714): HTTP_CONNECTION: keep-alive admin(23714): HTTP_REFERER: http://sax.iasf-milano.inaf.it/mailman/listinfo/altraprova admin(23714): SERVER_NAME: sax.iasf-milano.inaf.it admin(23714): REMOTE_ADDR: 155.253.16.87 admin(23714): PATH_TRANSLATED: /poseidon/WWW/Primary/htdocs/altraprova admin(23714): SERVER_PORT: 80 admin(23714): SERVER_ADDR: 155.253.16.87 admin(23714): DOCUMENT_ROOT: /poseidon/WWW/Primary/htdocs/ admin(23714): PYTHONPATH: /usr/lib/mailman admin(23714): SCRIPT_FILENAME: /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/subscribe admin(23714): SERVER_ADMIN: nos...@lambrate.inaf.it admin(23714): SCRIPT_URI: http://sax.iasf-milano.inaf.it/mailman/subscribe/altraprova admin(23714): HTTP_HOST: sax.iasf-milano.inaf.it admin(23714): SCRIPT_URL: /mailman/subscribe/altraprova admin(23714): REQUEST_URI: /mailman/subscribe/altraprova admin(23714): HTTP_ACCEPT: text/html,application/xhtml+xml,application/xml;q=0.9,*/*;q=0.8 admin(23714): GATEWAY_INTERFACE: CGI/1.1 admin(23714): REMOTE_PORT: 48993 admin(23714): HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE: en-us,en;q=0.5 admin(23714): CONTENT_TYPE: application/x-www-form-urlencoded admin(23714
[Mailman-Users] archiving gets shunted
I separate this other error in a separate thread. The other question is that if I send a message to a list, the member receive it, but the message is NOT archived. I see that a file appears in qfiles/shunt/ Have you run Mailman's bin/check_perms? yes I did. As a result of the first run, as instructed in manual, I did cd /var/lib/mailman/archives/ chown wwwrun private chmod o-x private and re-run it again. (wwwrun is the suse user under which apache runs) I see now that the default configuration of the list is archive=yes archive_private=public. I see there are directories archive/private/listname, archive/private/listname.mbox and public/listname. The latter is a softlink to private. Is this normal ? All of them are setgid directories owned by wwwrun.mailman except for those of list mailman which are owned by root.mailman, but I guess such list is special, and will have no traffic to be archived. As a result of posting the first message to the list, a file listname.mbox is created in archive/private/listname.mbox (why private ?) and it contain the messages. But the index.html is not updated. A message is shunted, and the attached errors are generated. -- Lucio Chiappetti - INAF/IASF - via Bassini 15 - I-20133 Milano (Italy) For more info : http://www.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/personal.html Mar 31 18:34:57 2011 (23431) uncaught archiver exception at filepos: 0 Mar 31 18:34:57 2011 (23431) Uncaught runner exception: Message instance has no attribute 'get_type' Mar 31 18:34:57 2011 (23431) Traceback (most recent call last): File /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py, line 120, in _oneloop self._onefile(msg, msgdata) File /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py, line 191, in _onefile keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata) File /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py, line 73, in _dispose mlist.ArchiveMail(msg) File /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py, line 216, in ArchiveMail h.processUnixMailbox(f) File /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py, line 564, in processUnixMailbox m = mbox.next() File /usr/lib64/python2.6/mailbox.py, line 1955, in next return self.factory(_PartialFile(self.fp, start, stop)) File /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Mailbox.py, line 89, in scrubber return mailbox.scrub(msg) File /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Mailbox.py, line 109, in scrub return self._scrubber(self._mlist, msg) File /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py, line 192, in process ctype = part.get_type(part.get_default_type()) AttributeError: Message instance has no attribute 'get_type' Mar 31 18:34:57 2011 (23431) SHUNTING: 1301589295.8064201+16d79fd82afe19253addf5855da0a63569b6d873 -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] cannot add user or create mailing list
Please advise if preferred policy on this list is reply to all or reply to list, and excuse if I did wrong. On Tue, 29 Mar 2011, Mark Sapiro wrote: Lucio Chiappetti wrote: Recently I decided to make an experiment, so I installed mailman 2.1.11 via the suse 11.3 distribution on my machine. When you install a downstream packaged Mailman, it is best to refer first to any documentation the packager provides. yes thanks, that will be file /usr/share/doc/packages/mailman/README.SuSE (somewhat hidden and unannounced, but it is there) APACHE_SERVER_FLAGS in /etc/sysconfig/apache2, but I have no documentation for it, and it seems that the site can be accessed ok (QUESTION 1) Any Suse user can confirm this is unnecessary ? De facto I found out that this flag is documented in README.SuSE. A command a2enflag (NOT applied during yast installation) applies all necessary changes to apache .conf files. They are equivalent to what I did, but simpler to use. So I reset things and did it, and will recommend that for our final installation. -- question 1 solved -- Concerning sendmail, I followed the method 2 (WITHOUT mm_handler) So all this seems to be working. yes. After I posted to mailman-users I also verified that creation of another list, adding members, removing members or lists via the linemode commands in mailman/bin also do work problems below appl(ied) only to the web interface (QUESTION 2) I hope the fact I always use the same test password is not a problem unless you have ALLOW_SITE_ADMIN_COOKIES = Yes in mm_cfg.py, this probably doesn't matter. thanks -- At this point I entered the admin web page of such a list [...] If I try to subscribe via the mailman/listinfo/mailman page, I get instead an error you must supply a valid e-mail address (QUESTION 3) Why does that happen ? see also question 4 -- (QUESTION 4) I tried also to create a new mailing list via the web interface (this requires supplying the site password as well) this gives me instead an error Unknown virtual host: sax.iasf-milano.inaf.it You are accessing the create CGI via a URL with host sax.iasf-milano.inaf.it, but the only host known to Mailman is poseidon.lambrate.inaf.it. I have read the FAQ entries. I changed mm_cfg.py first from DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'poseidon.lambrate.inaf.it' DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'poseidon.lambrate.inaf.it' to DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'sax.iasf-milano.inaf.it' DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'lambrate.inaf.it' and ran bin/withlist -l -a -r fix_url and finally to DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'sax.iasf-milano.inaf.it' DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'poseidon.lambrate.inaf.it' and did the same. The first case (sax/lambrate) is similar to what we wish on the target system (a web server name, and the domain name as mail host) The second case (sax/poseidon) is necessary in the test arrangement to create valid e-mail addresses. Both *mostly* work (if I use a list@poseidon type address for posting) in the sense that the web interface works (so URL_HOST is what solves questions 3 and 4. I still have some problems when subscribing a new user, and concerning message archiving. I will post a separate request for clarity. (QUESTION 5) The arrangement on the target system will be more complicated. because our aliases are mantained on the NIS master server. The master and slave servers are also the domain main and backup MX. However the web server is on a third machine. A configuration like the one I use on my test machine (local sendmail aliases inherited from local mailman aliases, which pipe into local mailman executables) is likely to work there ... ... but we'd have to expose somehow this machine name in the e-mail address (we currently mask all behind the domain) or replicate all mailman aliases in the NIS maps as x: x@mailmanhost but I do understand we cannot use a CNAME for mailmanhost ? -- Lucio Chiappetti - INAF/IASF - via Bassini 15 - I-20133 Milano (Italy) L'Italia ripudia la guerra [...] Italy repudiates war [...] come mezzo di risoluzione delle as a way of resolution of controversie internazionali ? international controversies ? [Art. 11 Constitution of the Italian Republic] For more info : http://www.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/personal.html -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org
[Mailman-Users] bug adding user, and archiving gets shunted
On Wed, 30 Mar 2011, Lucio Chiappetti wrote in thread starting at http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2011-March/071332.html and ran bin/withlist -l -a -r fix_url I still have some problems when subscribing a new user, and concerning message archiving. I will post a separate request for clarity. After I fixed the problems described in the thread quoted above, I had the following problems. - when subscribing an user (myself) to the mailman list via the web interface I get the message on the screen Bug in Mailman version 2.1.11 We're sorry, we hit a bug! Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs. after a while *root* (not me as mailman-owner !!) receives a message to visit the list control page to accept the subscription request, but such page has no pending requests - when subscribing an user (myself) to any other list via the web interface I get the same bug message, but after a while I receive the confirmation message, and if I confirm the welcome message, and are subscribed - I removed ALL lists, because mailman was created with newlist before I ran fix_url. When I recreate it with newlist, also mailman behaves as any other list i.e. - bug message on the screen - nevertheless confirmation e-mail - and regular welcome if I confirm what stuff in /var/lib/mailman/logs/error is relevant ? The other question is that if I send a message to a list, the member receive it, but the message is NOT archived. I see that a file appears in qfiles/shunt/ Note that I did not install any crontab (since my machine is just a test arrangement). Are crontabs necessary for the archiver ? Is there any FAQ or doc which describes what is in logs and qfiles, and how to interpret and dispose of it ? In particular how do I get rid of all old stuff there (other than doing it manually), so that I'll have only errors after a fresh restart ? What material from logs/error or qfiles/shunt should be posted to this list for diagnostics (if any) ? -- Lucio Chiappetti - INAF/IASF - via Bassini 15 - I-20133 Milano (Italy) L'Italia ripudia la guerra [...] Italy repudiates war [...] come mezzo di risoluzione delle as a way of resolution of controversie internazionali international controversies [Art. 11 Constitution of the Italian Republic] For more info : http://www.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/personal.html -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] cannot add user or create mailing list
services visible from outside - poseidon(.lambrate.inaf.it) is my machine FQDN - sax.iasf-milano.inaf.it is the CNAME for the web server on it. It is also the ServerName in default-server.conf (so one can get to the server as sax or poseidon or localhost but is shown just that) This will apply not only to my test configuration, but also to the target configuration (the institute web server will be www.iasf-milano.inaf.it, which is a CNAME for a server [let us say server3] ... actually that server runs different virtual servers) - all our e-mail address are FULLY MASQUERADED, i.e. they are of the form u...@lambrate.inaf.it or u...@iasf-milano.inaf.it (our MXs accept both in entrance, and each user selects which form to use on exit). The message from mailman when I created the initial list did have From: mailman-ow...@lambrate.inaf.it (obviously masqueraded by sendmail) It did contain URLs like http://poseidon.lambrate.inaf.it (reachable but translated as sax.iasf-milano.inaf.it) It did contain e-mail like mailman-requ...@poseidon.lambrate.inaf.it (so far I haven't tested them) I am not sure how much of the above applies to QUESTION 4 (i.e. to run on my local machine) (QUESTION 5) The arrangement on the target system will be more complicated. As I said the www server is server3, but the MX servers are instead server1 and server2. They are also NIS master and slave server, and all our e-mail aliases are NIS aliases (so I am not expecting a solution to question 5 now, I guess that if I can have a running solution on my local machine, and an understanding of the inner working of mailman, some creative user of crontab scripts or NFS mounts could make the mailman aliases available to all NIS clients and visible to the outside world. But any hint will be gratefully acknowledged. -- Lucio Chiappetti - INAF/IASF - via Bassini 15 - I-20133 Milano (Italy) For more info : http://www.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/personal.html -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
