date:20120130

Re: [MBZ] Stick 123 project for Clay

2012-01-30 Thread Fmiser

> andrew strasfogel wrote:

> Once again, still to deaf ears in all likelihood:  you can
> build s super 240D or what-ever from scratch using my splendid
> 1985 300D turbodiesel engine as a core.

I would be thrilled to take your engine - I just can't afford it
_and_ shipping!

Now, if I ever end up out East for other reasons, and am driving
a car with the ability to tow, and the engine is still there

--  Philip

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Re: [MBZ] Apple$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$'s

2012-01-30 Thread Hendrik & Fay

I read that they are expected to have 100 billion in cash by the end of 
the year, unless they buy a State or two, or pay the wage slaves a bit 
more, although apparently these wage slaves would not know what to do 
with the extra money, so there is no need to pay them any more than 
necessary. Heaven forbid, they would probably waste it on booze, 
cigarettes and gambling.


Hendrik
who wastes his money on foreign cars

relng...@aol.com wrote:

Nothing like having $100 million in cash laying around...

It's wayyy more than that. An article in this AM's paper suggested they buy 
California.


RLE


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Re: [MBZ] flight test

2012-01-30 Thread RELNGSON

> ...I drove myself to my flight test, on my 17th birthday!  And I 
> passed!..
> 
> At how many hours?
> 
RLE

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Re: [MBZ] Apple$$$

2012-01-30 Thread RELNGSON

Nothing like having $100 million in cash laying around...

It's wayyy more than that. An article in this AM's paper suggested they buy 
California.

RLE
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT: No new addition...

2012-01-30 Thread Hendrik & Fay


Tut Tut Tut, the best or nothing, thanks.

Hendrik
who is a big fat snob in a Benz

Rich Thomas wrote:
There is a Hendrick Shivvalay dealer here in town, I could go see if 
they would give me a Hendrick Shivvalay tag I could send you.


--R






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Re: [MBZ] Stick 123 project for Clay

2012-01-30 Thread andrew strasfogel

Once again, still to deaf ears in all likelihood:  you can build s
super 240D or what-ever from scratch using my splendid 1985 300D
turbodiesel engine as a core.


On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 8:42 PM, Ed Booher  wrote:
> How close to that, and what kind of trade would you give me for a running
> 83 240D that hasn't been winterized in forever. (Once it drops into the
> 40's, she won't start)
>
> Ed
>
> On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 7:15 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:
>
>> I have a euro 300d manny with heated seats I would sell close to that
>> Figure
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jan 30, 2012, at 6:09 PM, clay monroe  wrote:
>>
>> > I thought about it, but I am not partial to the w123.  Gump was more
>> entertaining and needed engine work.  I have the w124 to putter around in,
>> so that would be a step back in both power and ability.  Now I am on the
>> hunt for a roadster, of the R107 or maybe a CLK or SLK
>> >
>> > clay
>> >
>> >
>> > On Jan 29, 2012, at 9:30 PM, Alex Chamberlain wrote:
>> >
>> >> Why aren't you jumping on this one?
>> >> http://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/cto/2817839465.html
>> >>
>> >> ___
>> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> >> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> >>
>> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> >
>> >
>> > ___
>> > http://www.okiebenz.com
>> > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> >
>> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>
>> ___
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>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>
>
>
>
> --
> "Das beste oder nichts." - *Gottlieb Daimler*
> ___
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> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Bought a new computer monitor made in the third world

2012-01-30 Thread andrew strasfogel

I believe the word is "oligarchy".

On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 8:33 PM, Dan Penoff  wrote:
> One of those families was my customer. They owned numerous businesses, from 
> ferreterias to nail factories to an Anjeho distillery. Their kids were 
> educated in the States, and their homes were nothing short of palatial.
>
> They pretty much ran the country.
>
> For what it's worth, I did the same thing in Columbia, Panama, and Peru, and 
> their societies were much the same.
>
> A small number of well to do families controlled the economy, who also worked 
> closely with the local government.
>
> Dan
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 30, 2012, at 10:07 PM, Rich Thomas 
>  wrote:
>
>> The DR is run by something like 10 families (I might be wrong on the 
>> absolute number here given how long it has been since we visited there, but 
>> it is a handful) and the rest are just baggage to them.  Your basic 
>> colonialism.  The Haitians that manage to get over are treated even worse 
>> than the Dominican rabble.  The country is quite pretty out in the 
>> countryside though, in the "mountains."
>>
>> --R
>>
>> On 1/30/12 8:30 PM, Dan Penoff wrote:
>>> Hendrik,
>>>
>>> I can only relate the two places I saw such business activities take place:
>>>
>>> Dominican Republic - industrial park where goods are assembled, such as 
>>> clothing.
>>>
>>> I worked with a supplier who was responsible for power production in a 
>>> large industrial park outside of Santo Domingo, in the Distrito Nacional.  
>>> Companies such as Levi Strauss used facilities at this park to have local 
>>> labor take cut cloth and sew it into finished goods, which were then 
>>> shipped to the US and other points of distribution.
>>>
>>> The area around the park, prior to it being completed, was typical DR - the 
>>> very poor and indigent, living in squalid conditions, often without running 
>>> water and proper facilities.  Illness was rampant, children rarely attended 
>>> school, and the life expectancy was (I assume) fairly low as a result.
>>>
>>> When the industrial park was built and the companies came in, all 
>>> multinational corporations like Levi Strauss, Abbott Labs, Eli Lilly, etc., 
>>> they put roughly 10,000 locals to work. DId they make subsistence wages?  
>>> Probably.  However, they had money, the employers provide health care and 
>>> built housing off site, and the general condition of those in the area 
>>> improved vastly.
>>>
>>> Was it enough to make them capable of moving up?  Probably not.
>>>
>>> That being said, you have to consider that these countries have no middle 
>>> class to speak of.  You are either poor or very rich.  To suggest that 
>>> their being paid a living wage that allowed them to improve their lives, 
>>> have good and regular meals, establish a place for their families to live 
>>> and schools for their children to be educated is inadequate is hardly 
>>> germane, as there is nothing for them to aspire to - creating that middle 
>>> class will take several generations, and would not be a result of them 
>>> being paid higher wages.
>>>
>>> I also had a customer that was a Nike plant in a rural area of southern 
>>> Mainland China, not far from where some of the largest Foxconn facilities 
>>> are today (this was in the late 1980s, early 1990s.)  Running water was 
>>> unknown at the time the plant was built, and nearly everyone who lived 
>>> there was a subsistence farmer.
>>>
>>> Nike employed many of the locals, and while I am sure they weren't paid 
>>> much, again, the income they did receive far exceeded what they would make 
>>> from what little they sold off of their farms.
>>>
>>> I know that Nike has taken some hits for their manufacturing policies in 
>>> the third world, but again, you have to understand that there is no 
>>> cultural or social structure similar to what we have in many of these 
>>> places.  Even if you paid these folks in excess of what they would ever 
>>> expect to make, they wouldn't know what to do with it nor would there be a 
>>> mechanism for them to spend or dispose of it.  The means for spending it in 
>>> a manner that would benefit them simply doesn't exist.
>>>
>>> Having said that, the situation with current day China and manufacturers 
>>> like Foxconn is very different due to many of the fairly recent changes in 
>>> the Chinese government and culture.  But - consider where many of these 
>>> laborers come from - rural villages where they or their families are 
>>> subsistence farmers.
>>>
>>> There was an interesting discussion on National Public Radio (similar to 
>>> your CBF) the other day about this, and it pretty well went the way I 
>>> described it.  They also drew parallels to the US in the late 19th century 
>>> and early 20th century, when the Machine Age was beginning and people were 
>>> moving from the farms and an agrarian society to the cities and becoming 
>>> workers.  There was no middle class at that time, either, although our 
>>> so

Re: [MBZ] Stick 123 project for Clay

2012-01-30 Thread Ed Booher

How close to that, and what kind of trade would you give me for a running
83 240D that hasn't been winterized in forever. (Once it drops into the
40's, she won't start)

Ed

On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 7:15 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:

> I have a euro 300d manny with heated seats I would sell close to that
> Figure
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 30, 2012, at 6:09 PM, clay monroe  wrote:
>
> > I thought about it, but I am not partial to the w123.  Gump was more
> entertaining and needed engine work.  I have the w124 to putter around in,
> so that would be a step back in both power and ability.  Now I am on the
> hunt for a roadster, of the R107 or maybe a CLK or SLK
> >
> > clay
> >
> >
> > On Jan 29, 2012, at 9:30 PM, Alex Chamberlain wrote:
> >
> >> Why aren't you jumping on this one?
> >> http://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/cto/2817839465.html
> >>
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>



-- 
"Das beste oder nichts." - *Gottlieb Daimler*
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Re: [MBZ] OT: Bought a new computer monitor

2012-01-30 Thread Dieselhead


I bought a Mac because it made my life easier.  Not because I was trying
further my alignment with any causes.


Yep.  While apple evangelists in the early days were notably 
liberal/socialist, and the company still has very similar leanings, 
[is albore still on the board?]  one of the evangelists is hardly 
leftist or socialist, Rush Limbaugh.


Apple products work very well, and are well designed.

A Mercedes works very well, and is well designed.

Winblows boxes are like GM products.  Lots of em, they work 
reasonably well, are often ugly, and don't have the sleek design 
detail you might find in a Mercedes Benz.  They don't have the long 
service life of a Mac.


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Bought a new computer monitor

2012-01-30 Thread Dieselhead



Its the lip service I hate, like I said I'm not against Apple, I'm 
against hypocrites that use Apple products to "save the earth" which 
is a lot like saving spotted owls with a 12ga.

-Curt


Yep.  But the greenie weenies are hypocrites in so may ways.  Like 
when they cause the deaths of many animals by what they call 
"liberating" animals to "save" the animals.  It is just mindless 
following lies that have been drilled into them.


Most of them have no clue what it takes to produce the greens they 
eat, or anything else they eat or use.  As long as it is stamped 
"organic" they are happy.


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Bought a new computer monitor made in the third world

2012-01-30 Thread Dan Penoff

One of those families was my customer. They owned numerous businesses, from 
ferreterias to nail factories to an Anjeho distillery. Their kids were educated 
in the States, and their homes were nothing short of palatial.

They pretty much ran the country.

For what it's worth, I did the same thing in Columbia, Panama, and Peru, and 
their societies were much the same.

A small number of well to do families controlled the economy, who also worked 
closely with the local government.

Dan

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 30, 2012, at 10:07 PM, Rich Thomas 
 wrote:

> The DR is run by something like 10 families (I might be wrong on the absolute 
> number here given how long it has been since we visited there, but it is a 
> handful) and the rest are just baggage to them.  Your basic colonialism.  The 
> Haitians that manage to get over are treated even worse than the Dominican 
> rabble.  The country is quite pretty out in the countryside though, in the 
> "mountains."
> 
> --R
> 
> On 1/30/12 8:30 PM, Dan Penoff wrote:
>> Hendrik,
>> 
>> I can only relate the two places I saw such business activities take place:
>> 
>> Dominican Republic - industrial park where goods are assembled, such as 
>> clothing.
>> 
>> I worked with a supplier who was responsible for power production in a large 
>> industrial park outside of Santo Domingo, in the Distrito Nacional.  
>> Companies such as Levi Strauss used facilities at this park to have local 
>> labor take cut cloth and sew it into finished goods, which were then shipped 
>> to the US and other points of distribution.
>> 
>> The area around the park, prior to it being completed, was typical DR - the 
>> very poor and indigent, living in squalid conditions, often without running 
>> water and proper facilities.  Illness was rampant, children rarely attended 
>> school, and the life expectancy was (I assume) fairly low as a result.
>> 
>> When the industrial park was built and the companies came in, all 
>> multinational corporations like Levi Strauss, Abbott Labs, Eli Lilly, etc., 
>> they put roughly 10,000 locals to work. DId they make subsistence wages?  
>> Probably.  However, they had money, the employers provide health care and 
>> built housing off site, and the general condition of those in the area 
>> improved vastly.
>> 
>> Was it enough to make them capable of moving up?  Probably not.
>> 
>> That being said, you have to consider that these countries have no middle 
>> class to speak of.  You are either poor or very rich.  To suggest that their 
>> being paid a living wage that allowed them to improve their lives, have good 
>> and regular meals, establish a place for their families to live and schools 
>> for their children to be educated is inadequate is hardly germane, as there 
>> is nothing for them to aspire to - creating that middle class will take 
>> several generations, and would not be a result of them being paid higher 
>> wages.
>> 
>> I also had a customer that was a Nike plant in a rural area of southern 
>> Mainland China, not far from where some of the largest Foxconn facilities 
>> are today (this was in the late 1980s, early 1990s.)  Running water was 
>> unknown at the time the plant was built, and nearly everyone who lived there 
>> was a subsistence farmer.
>> 
>> Nike employed many of the locals, and while I am sure they weren't paid 
>> much, again, the income they did receive far exceeded what they would make 
>> from what little they sold off of their farms.
>> 
>> I know that Nike has taken some hits for their manufacturing policies in the 
>> third world, but again, you have to understand that there is no cultural or 
>> social structure similar to what we have in many of these places.  Even if 
>> you paid these folks in excess of what they would ever expect to make, they 
>> wouldn't know what to do with it nor would there be a mechanism for them to 
>> spend or dispose of it.  The means for spending it in a manner that would 
>> benefit them simply doesn't exist.
>> 
>> Having said that, the situation with current day China and manufacturers 
>> like Foxconn is very different due to many of the fairly recent changes in 
>> the Chinese government and culture.  But - consider where many of these 
>> laborers come from - rural villages where they or their families are 
>> subsistence farmers.
>> 
>> There was an interesting discussion on National Public Radio (similar to 
>> your CBF) the other day about this, and it pretty well went the way I 
>> described it.  They also drew parallels to the US in the late 19th century 
>> and early 20th century, when the Machine Age was beginning and people were 
>> moving from the farms and an agrarian society to the cities and becoming 
>> workers.  There was no middle class at that time, either, although our 
>> society wasn't quite as stratified as it is in some of these countries.
>> 
>> What is taking place in China and other Third World countries like it is 
>> similar to what took place a

Re: [MBZ] OT: Bought a new computer monitor

2012-01-30 Thread Dieselhead

You (appear to) make the common mistake to assume that a corporation 
has some compulsion to support whatever issue you or I or someone 
else believes in, absent a desire to do it to get you to give them 
money for their product(s).  Their purpose is to make money for 
shareholders while complying with whatever laws they have to deal 
with.  Their shareholders might agree that some other ancillary 
purpose is worth less profit, but they have to vote on that (through 
the board) or otherwise approve it by their willingness to pay a 
certain price for the shares.


Walmart has become very successful because they provide cheap 
products and a decent shopping experience and that is what their 
customers want.   If you don't like how they go about providing 
that, you (or I or whoever) have other choices, perhaps less 
convenient.  Apple provides products that people like, at a 
(premium) price they are willing to pay for presumably a (premium) 
positive user experience, and most people seem as if they would 
rather compromise their social values (if they really have them, 
other than lip service) than to forgo an Apple product.  If one has 
an issue with their suppliers or methods, feel free to avoid their 
products, and perhaps convince others to do the same if you feel 
sufficiently compelled to do so.


It is actually quite simple!

--R


You vote with your dollars.


Maybe you don't like Apple, but every other (consumer) electronics 
mfgr uses the same practices or they are out of business.  So if you 
don't want to buy Apple, then the alternative is to live off the 
grid, sans electronics.   Yes, people do it.


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Bought a new computer monitor

2012-01-30 Thread Dieselhead

Frod started squeezing the suppliers by 10% per year 20 years ago. 
They learned it from Evil Sam.


In the intervening years, it has become a fairly standard practice.

You don't believe Dell, HP/Compaq/whoare we today? does the same thing?

How about asus or (fill in your favorite brand)___?

How bout lenovo, whom may here worship?  You think all their 
employees are treated like american IBEW members?


If so, I have some lakefront property I'd like to sell you.

Almost any product you buy is produced by people who have been 
squeezed year after year.


If you don't like that, then buy fresh/buy local  But you won't be 
owning any electronics.  Mother Earth News will start you on your 
path to life off the grid.






Sound like Walton-Mart:

"To that end, the Times reports that Apple has conducted supplier 
audits and published the results on its web site. At the same time, 
Apple pushes its suppliers to manufacture huge volumes with little 
notice at very low costs and razor-thin profit margins.


"And every year it requires those suppliers to reduce their prices 
by 10 percent, reports the Times. Apple is an amazingly greedy 
company."  [written by a true marxist]


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Re: [MBZ] OT: Bought a new computer monitor made in the third world

2012-01-30 Thread Rich Thomas

The DR is run by something like 10 families (I might be wrong on the
absolute number here given how long it has been since we visited there,
but it is a handful) and the rest are just baggage to them. Your basic
colonialism. The Haitians that manage to get over are treated even
worse than the Dominican rabble. The country is quite pretty out in the
countryside though, in the "mountains."

--R

On 1/30/12 8:30 PM, Dan Penoff wrote:

Hendrik,

I can only relate the two places I saw such business activities take place:

Dominican Republic - industrial park where goods are assembled, such as
clothing.

I worked with a supplier who was responsible for power production in a large
industrial park outside of Santo Domingo, in the Distrito Nacional. Companies
such as Levi Strauss used facilities at this park to have local labor take cut
cloth and sew it into finished goods, which were then shipped to the US and
other points of distribution.

The area around the park, prior to it being completed, was typical DR - the
very poor and indigent, living in squalid conditions, often without running
water and proper facilities. Illness was rampant, children rarely attended
school, and the life expectancy was (I assume) fairly low as a result.

When the industrial park was built and the companies came in, all multinational
corporations like Levi Strauss, Abbott Labs, Eli Lilly, etc., they put roughly
10,000 locals to work. DId they make subsistence wages? Probably. However,
they had money, the employers provide health care and built housing off site,
and the general condition of those in the area improved vastly.

Was it enough to make them capable of moving up? Probably not.

That being said, you have to consider that these countries have no middle class
to speak of. You are either poor or very rich. To suggest that their being
paid a living wage that allowed them to improve their lives, have good and
regular meals, establish a place for their families to live and schools for
their children to be educated is inadequate is hardly germane, as there is
nothing for them to aspire to - creating that middle class will take several
generations, and would not be a result of them being paid higher wages.

I also had a customer that was a Nike plant in a rural area of southern
Mainland China, not far from where some of the largest Foxconn facilities are
today (this was in the late 1980s, early 1990s.) Running water was unknown at
the time the plant was built, and nearly everyone who lived there was a
subsistence farmer.

Nike employed many of the locals, and while I am sure they weren't paid much,
again, the income they did receive far exceeded what they would make from what
little they sold off of their farms.

I know that Nike has taken some hits for their manufacturing policies in the
third world, but again, you have to understand that there is no cultural or
social structure similar to what we have in many of these places. Even if you
paid these folks in excess of what they would ever expect to make, they
wouldn't know what to do with it nor would there be a mechanism for them to
spend or dispose of it. The means for spending it in a manner that would
benefit them simply doesn't exist.

Having said that, the situation with current day China and manufacturers like
Foxconn is very different due to many of the fairly recent changes in the
Chinese government and culture. But - consider where many of these laborers
come from - rural villages where they or their families are subsistence farmers.

There was an interesting discussion on National Public Radio (similar to your
CBF) the other day about this, and it pretty well went the way I described it.
They also drew parallels to the US in the late 19th century and early 20th
century, when the Machine Age was beginning and people were moving from the
farms and an agrarian society to the cities and becoming workers. There was no
middle class at that time, either, although our society wasn't quite as
stratified as it is in some of these countries.

What is taking place in China and other Third World countries like it is
similar to what took place around the turn of the last century in America. And
like that time in history, as the workers develop more influence and become a
larger part of the society, they will, G-d willing, begin to alter the
environment much the same way as the labor unions did in the US.

Dan

On Jan 30, 2012, at 6:41 PM, Hendrik& Fay wrote:

Perhaps you could elaborate on this a bit.
Are these workers paid a sustenance wage or a get ahead wage?
Businesses are in the business of making the most money they can
http://www.thestar.com/business/article/1110094--olive-why-caterpillar-has-the-upper-hand-in-london-plant-lockout

Hendrik
who is not making much money

Dan Penoff wrote:

That being said, I have seen with my own eyes the benefits such manufacturing
has for the workers in such places as southern

Re: [MBZ] OT: No new addition...

2012-01-30 Thread Rich Thomas

There is a Hendrick Shivvalay dealer here in town, I could go see if 
they would give me a Hendrick Shivvalay tag I could send you.


--R

On 1/30/12 6:52 PM, Hendrik & Fay wrote:

Another let down, first Wilton and now you, ahh well pass the tissues :'(

Hendrik
who is slowly getting used to disappointments

Tim C wrote:

Unfortunately for Hendrik this means the pressure's off me going to
Raleigh to pick up his Hendrick MB tag. ... but I'll see what I can
do.

Best,
Tim
finds the 300D a lot easier to park





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