[MBZ] 124 Wagon

[Donald Snook via Mercedes]

Anything special to look out for 124 gasser wagons that would be different than 
the Sedans? I suppose the SLS and accumulators would be the primary thing? 

On later 124, the other things to check are the wiring harness and the 
evaporator. Right?  I keep finding 124 wagons for sale and they are really 
growing on me.  

Donald H. Snook


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Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon diagnosis

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

Three causes for that symptom (and I've had them all).

Vacuum leak, especially the boot between throttle body and air flow sensor

Bad idle control valve (typically dirty, sticks closed too long and the engine 
stalls)

Dribbling injector(s) causing fluctuating idle, occasional stalls and rough 
idle.  

The injectors are the worst, as it's also impossible to get the idle mixture 
set properly.

With serious wear, the valves can leak enough air to cause idle problems too, 
fixed after 1989 I think, and definitely if the car has had a head rebuild (the 
valve guildes wore too much in the original design).
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Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon diagnosis

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Probably IS, or could be, a vacuum leak nobody found.


Donald Snook via Mercedes 
March 26, 2018 at 3:51 PM
This wagon looks decent and cheap. But, the seller says:

"THE ONLY BAD IS IT runs and drives just wants to die at a stop or 
idle but when going down the street coasting it's fine. The guy I 
bought it from gave me a file of paperwork that he has done to this 
several hundreds if not thousands. It's definitely a simple fix vacume 
leak."


https://wichita.craigslist.org/cto/d/mercedes-benz-wagon/6541061555.html

Is this something common? Or anyone dealt with this before?


Donald H. Snook


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Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon diagnosis

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

Rust at the rear passenger-side fender - RUN AWAY, RUN AWAY!

-
Max
Charleston SC


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Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon diagnosis

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Does it have a locking torque converter? I wonder if slipping it into neutral 
at a stop keeps it going.
-Curt
 

On Monday, March 26, 2018, 4:52:04 PM EDT, Donald Snook via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 This wagon looks decent and cheap. But, the seller says:

"THE ONLY BAD IS IT runs and drives just wants to die at a stop or idle but 
when going down the street coasting it's fine. The guy I bought it from gave me 
a file of paperwork that he has done to this several hundreds if not thousands. 
It's definitely a simple fix vacume leak."

https://wichita.craigslist.org/cto/d/mercedes-benz-wagon/6541061555.html

Is this something common? Or anyone dealt with this before?


Donald H. Snook
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[MBZ] 124 wagon diagnosis

[Donald Snook via Mercedes]

This wagon looks decent and cheap. But, the seller says:

"THE ONLY BAD IS IT runs and drives just wants to die at a stop or idle but 
when going down the street coasting it's fine. The guy I bought it from gave me 
a file of paperwork that he has done to this several hundreds if not thousands. 
It's definitely a simple fix vacume leak."

https://wichita.craigslist.org/cto/d/mercedes-benz-wagon/6541061555.html

Is this something common? Or anyone dealt with this before?


Donald H. Snook
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Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon water woe

[Curly McLain via Mercedes]

___


Where did you get the replacement gasket for the 123 windshield?

RB


Cheep chinee crap  URO from fleabay.  When I looked at the cost of 
the MB gasket and high probability it is made by URO anyway, I 
decided to get one more directly from the source, rather than paying 
3-4 times as much for one with an MB part number sticker on it.


It is not a pretty car.  It is rusty, and I patched extensively on it 
3 yrs ago.  Mostly underneath the floor mats and under the car.  Then 
applied the POR 15 and undercoat.  The paint is dead, so I have 2 
candidates for Curt to apply a roller paint job, if I could only get 
him here to do it.


If I could get someone to fire me so I have some time, I'd like to 
try the roller paint job.  Things go in cycles.  around 1999 - 2002 
it was roofs.  I put on 4 garage roofs and 2 house roofs.  Now it is 
painting.  2 cars (or 3 or 4 if time and money permitted) and a 
tractor all need paint.  I always have to do the paint prep but my 
dad painted the tractors and equipment.  I don't even own a paint 
sprayer, other than for latex house paint.  (airless)


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Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon water woe

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

On 03/06/2015 10:34 AM, Curly McLain via Mercedes wrote:

It's a good thing I didn't put the carpet back in yet, after a hard rain
last night there is water on the passenger floor again.  Less water than
before, so progress has been made.

Read on peach parts that on some 124 cars, the front drain tubes shrink
with age and the bottom end pulls back into the A pillar.

I also researched the wagon roof luggage rack, and each of the side 
rails
have long rubber seals under them.  If that is the source of the 
leak, I'm

not looking forward to removing the headline to pull those rails and
replace the rubber seals.
-
Max
Charleston SC


For years, the 81 240D leaked on your foot if driving in the rain, but 
there was no problem to be found.  I kept it under roof to prevent 
rusting, and we had it out of service for 10 years or so. Eventually 
the windshield gasket disintegrated, and had to be replaced.  
Fortunately there was no serious rust in the windshield frame.  After 
the new glass and gasket, no leaks!  I'm driving it daily now and 
enjoying it.


___


Where did you get the replacement gasket for the windshield?

RB

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Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon water woe

[Curly McLain via Mercedes]

It's a good thing I didn't put the carpet back in yet, after a hard rain
last night there is water on the passenger floor again.  Less water than
before, so progress has been made.

Read on peach parts that on some 124 cars, the front drain tubes shrink
with age and the bottom end pulls back into the A pillar.

I also researched the wagon roof luggage rack, and each of the side rails
have long rubber seals under them.  If that is the source of the leak, I'm
not looking forward to removing the headline to pull those rails and
replace the rubber seals.
-
Max
Charleston SC


For years, the 81 240D leaked on your foot if driving in the rain, 
but there was no problem to be found.  I kept it under roof to 
prevent rusting, and we had it out of service for 10 years or so. 
Eventually the windshield gasket disintegrated, and had to be 
replaced.  Fortunately there was no serious rust in the windshield 
frame.  After the new glass and gasket, no leaks!  I'm driving it 
daily now and enjoying it.


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[MBZ] 124 wagon water woe

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

It's a good thing I didn't put the carpet back in yet, after a hard rain
last night there is water on the passenger floor again.  Less water than
before, so progress has been made.

Read on peach parts that on some 124 cars, the front drain tubes shrink
with age and the bottom end pulls back into the A pillar.

I also researched the wagon roof luggage rack, and each of the side rails
have long rubber seals under them.  If that is the source of the leak, I'm
not looking forward to removing the headline to pull those rails and
replace the rubber seals.
-
Max
Charleston SC
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[MBZ] 124 wagon central locking repair

[Max Dillon]

Dieselvolk,

 

Several days ago I found that the central locking on my 124 wagon had ceased
to function.  It has always been partially crippled, only working from the
driver's door, but that was good enough to limp along, but now even the
driver's door didn't lock or unlock.  I studied the manuals to see how it
all works, and found a nice trouble shooting guide.  Step 1: confirm power
and ground to the pump.   Pump is located under carpet under right rear
seat, which requires removing the door jamb and pulling up the carpet.
Chinee plastic wedges from Harbor Freight do the job nicely.   Ground = OK,
but power = 0.41 volts = fail.  Fuse was fine.  The only other connection
point labeled is X30, a big junction under the dash somewhere.  FSM has a
picture which indicates behind the parking brake pedal, so I started
removing layers there; driver's carpet, Styrofoam, floor padding, and
finally the dead-pedal plastic, which revealed X30.

 

Took a little testing to determine which connector of the six is the right
one (hint: only has pin 1 with red/white for power, and pin 3 for ground
which of course is brown).  No continuity between pin 1 at the X30 connector
and the power pin at the pump, so the wire is bad somewhere in between.
Note that there is a multi-junction point somewhere between X30 and the pump
which feeds power to driver's door, passenger door, and rear gate actuators,
but no hint as to where that is in the FSM.  Hand-over-hand along the wiring
loom would require pulling out the seats and pulling up the carpet, which I
don't have time for.  If the inner panels for the doors were pulled, I could
test at the actuators to see which ones are getting power, which might also
help determine the fault location(s), but I don't want to do that yet.

 

I decided to run a new power wire to see if I could restore function.  I
used a pin salvaged from the old '95 E300 wiring harness at the X30 end of
the new wire to connect to 12v power, and then added the new wire to the pin
at the pump, so that power is fed down both ends of the old wire.  It works!
Ran the new wire underneath the rear seat over the left rear door, and then
pulled up the door jambs and fed the wire forward to the driver's foot well.
Put all the layers and door jambs back in place, and the only place the new
wire is visible is at the left rear door jamb (about two inches show between
seat cushion and door jamb).

 

Not a perfect fix, but good enough for now.

 

 

Very respectfully,
/s/
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD 332k miles

'95 E300 277k miles 

'73 Balboa 20

 

 

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Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon hitches, etc

[Joe Knight]

I think the main issue with the 124 hitches and probably later models
is the bulb out warning circuitry.  Isn't it the case that without
modification except for the addition of lights the bulb out warning
system will go wonky?  Maybe not so much an issue with earlier
models..

-joe

Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon hitches, was: Re: Gotta brag -- Check out my $3200 '87 300TDT

[Luther]

I take scraps of wiring and solder them into the tail light assembly at the +
points on each specific bulb.  Then the scrap wiring can be cut/attached into
the trailer harness.  It was easy to remove, just needed a pair of dikes, and
snip-snip :)
--
Luther   KB5QHUAlma, Ark
'87 300SDL (271,xxx mi) needs head
'83 300SD (246,645 mi) SOLD!
'82 300CD (166 kmi) getting front end rebuild
'82 300D  (74 kmi) getting '85 donor engine-SOLD!
'85 300D (280,176) parts car-sans engine
Quoting Mitch Haley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:




Levi Smith wrote:


Technically speaking, you could get some bulb sockets and make up your

own

harness that just plugged into the existing lights and didn't interfere

with
the stock harness... 


When making my own trailer light wiring, I like to put each circuit on an
independent small fuse (so the trailer lamps draw about half of the fuse
rating, and the trailer fuse is weaker than the car's fuse). That way,
when there's a short in the trailer, the car's lights still work, and
you never have to deal with melted wiring anywhere. 

Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon hitches, was: Re: Gotta brag -- Check out my $3200 '87 300TDT

[Mitch Haley]

Levi Smith wrote:
> 
> Technically speaking, you could get some bulb sockets and make up your own
> harness that just plugged into the existing lights and didn't interfere with
> the stock harness...

When making my own trailer light wiring, I like to put each circuit on an
independent small fuse (so the trailer lamps draw about half of the fuse
rating, and the trailer fuse is weaker than the car's fuse). That way, 
when there's a short in the trailer, the car's lights still work, and
you never have to deal with melted wiring anywhere.

Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon hitches, was: Re: Gotta brag -- Check out my $3200 '87 300TDT

[Levi Smith]

Technically speaking, you could get some bulb sockets and make up your own
harness that just plugged into the existing lights and didn't interfere with
the stock harness...

Levi

On 5/18/07, John Robbins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Levi Smith wrote:
> Sorry, you nixed that one with the "not cutting the wiring harness" in
your
> last message.  I was talking about a universal one that you just put on
with
> a couple vampire taps...

Is there actually a socket in the wiring harness that is designated for
hooking up the trailer wiring?  I imagine if there is Rusty can at least
get the connector and the wiring could be done DIY to a generic hookup.

John

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Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon hitches, was: Re: Gotta brag -- Check out my $3200 '87 300TDT

[John Robbins]

Levi Smith wrote:

Sorry, you nixed that one with the "not cutting the wiring harness" in your
last message.  I was talking about a universal one that you just put on with
a couple vampire taps...


Is there actually a socket in the wiring harness that is designated for 
hooking up the trailer wiring?  I imagine if there is Rusty can at least 
get the connector and the wiring could be done DIY to a generic hookup.


John

Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon hitches, was: Re: Gotta brag -- Check out my $3200 '87 300TDT

[Levi Smith]

Sorry, you nixed that one with the "not cutting the wiring harness" in your
last message.  I was talking about a universal one that you just put on with
a couple vampire taps...

Levi

On 5/18/07, Mike Canfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


I hadn't checked Wally World yet..They didn't have one for my Dodge
truck so I was doubtfull about the TD.

Mike
- Original Message -
From: "Levi Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 9:34 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon hitches,was: Re: Gotta brag -- Check out my
$3200 '87 300TDT


> Ahh, you just pick one up for like $15 at Wal-mart and wire it in.  It's
> worked fine on my 97' Subaru and  83' 300D...
>
> Levi
>
> On 5/17/07, Mike Canfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> I'd love to have a trailer wiring harness for my 123 TD if they
>> exist..I
>> need to fix the bumpers anyway so i will be building my own reciever
>> hitch
>> for it.
>>
>> Mike
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Joe Knight" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: 
>> Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 9:11 AM
>> Subject: [MBZ] 124 wagon hitches,was: Re: Gotta brag -- Check out my
>> $3200
>> '87 300TDT
>>
>>
>> > "If you want, I can have a look around here for harnessesthere's
>> > millions
>> > of 124 T's floating around here!"   -Jeff Zedic
>> >
>> > Thx, Jeff, but I already got mine.  John is mulling that prospect,
but
>> > it's my possibly mistaken understanding that the MB factory hitches
>> > weren't exported to GB.  IIRC, there's a thriving market for aftermkt
>> > hitches on Brit ebay.  Shipping's probably a major hitch to bringing
>> > any of those things over as they are pretty heavy, plus unless you've
>> > got a contact on the ground near where you're buying from you've got
>> > to convince a potential seller to jump thru the extra hoops involved
>> > in pond hopping.
>> >
>> > -joe
>> >
>> > ___
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>> > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >
>> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> >
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon hitches, was: Re: Gotta brag -- Check out my $3200 '87 300TDT

[Mike Canfield]

I hadn't checked Wally World yet..They didn't have one for my Dodge 
truck so I was doubtfull about the TD.


Mike
- Original Message - 
From: "Levi Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 9:34 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon hitches,was: Re: Gotta brag -- Check out my 
$3200 '87 300TDT




Ahh, you just pick one up for like $15 at Wal-mart and wire it in.  It's
worked fine on my 97' Subaru and  83' 300D...

Levi

On 5/17/07, Mike Canfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


I'd love to have a trailer wiring harness for my 123 TD if they
exist..I
need to fix the bumpers anyway so i will be building my own reciever 
hitch

for it.

Mike
- Original Message -
From: "Joe Knight" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 9:11 AM
Subject: [MBZ] 124 wagon hitches,was: Re: Gotta brag -- Check out my 
$3200

'87 300TDT


> "If you want, I can have a look around here for harnessesthere's
> millions
> of 124 T's floating around here!"   -Jeff Zedic
>
> Thx, Jeff, but I already got mine.  John is mulling that prospect, but
> it's my possibly mistaken understanding that the MB factory hitches
> weren't exported to GB.  IIRC, there's a thriving market for aftermkt
> hitches on Brit ebay.  Shipping's probably a major hitch to bringing
> any of those things over as they are pretty heavy, plus unless you've
> got a contact on the ground near where you're buying from you've got
> to convince a potential seller to jump thru the extra hoops involved
> in pond hopping.
>
> -joe
>
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Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon hitches, was: Re: Gotta brag -- Check out my $3200 '87 300TDT

[Mike Canfield]

Jeff,
 My main concern is that I don't want to cut the original harness in the 
car.  I can modify the trailer plug end to suit.


Mike
- Original Message - 
From: "Jeff Zedic" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 9:08 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon hitches,was: Re: Gotta brag -- Check out my 
$3200 '87 300TDT




Mike,

The trailer wiring harnesses here are a lot different than North American
ones. It's a big round plug, approx 2 inches across and sits to the right 
of

the hitch. My new Audi A4 TDI manual has a factory hitch! VERY  nice!

Jeff Zedic
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Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon hitches, was: Re: Gotta brag -- Check out my $3200 '87 300TDT

[Jeff Zedic]

Mike,

The trailer wiring harnesses here are a lot different than North American
ones. It's a big round plug, approx 2 inches across and sits to the right of
the hitch. My new Audi A4 TDI manual has a factory hitch! VERY  nice!

Jeff Zedic

Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon hitches, was: Re: Gotta brag -- Check out my $3200 '87 300TDT

[Mike Canfield]

I'd love to have a trailer wiring harness for my 123 TD if they exist..I 
need to fix the bumpers anyway so i will be building my own reciever hitch 
for it.


Mike
- Original Message - 
From: "Joe Knight" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 9:11 AM
Subject: [MBZ] 124 wagon hitches,was: Re: Gotta brag -- Check out my $3200 
'87 300TDT



"If you want, I can have a look around here for harnessesthere's 
millions

of 124 T's floating around here!"   -Jeff Zedic

Thx, Jeff, but I already got mine.  John is mulling that prospect, but
it's my possibly mistaken understanding that the MB factory hitches
weren't exported to GB.  IIRC, there's a thriving market for aftermkt
hitches on Brit ebay.  Shipping's probably a major hitch to bringing
any of those things over as they are pretty heavy, plus unless you've
got a contact on the ground near where you're buying from you've got
to convince a potential seller to jump thru the extra hoops involved
in pond hopping.

-joe

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Re: [MBZ] 124 Wagon Steering - Possible Bad Power Steering Pump

[John Berryman]

On Mar 27, 2006, at 9:23 AM, Dave Wakin wrote:

Not sure what else to check - maybe the PS Filter? I figured I  
would change
that and the fluid and go from there, but I am not sure I am  
looking at the

right peice in the puzzle.

Thanks in advance,

Dave Wakin


	Changing the fluid and filter has cured stiff PS many times. I hope  
that's all you need to do.


Johnny B.
I Mac Therefore I am

Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon leaks

[andrew strasfogel]

When the seal on a 123 300 TD rear hatch leaks the rear cargo bay carpet is
wet near where the hatch closes. Also, both my side windows leaked at
different times, and Banner Glass resealed them for about $20/side (this was
a decade ago).

Andrew
1983 300TD


On 3/27/06, Marshall Booth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Loren Faeth wrote:
> > The 88 300TE is getting water in both rear wheel wells.  Under the third
> > seat is also getting wet.  When I open the seat back and bottom, the
> carpet
> > underneath is wet.  Can anyone shed light as to what the source of the
> > water is?On the right, I suspect the antenna.  Is it possible that
> all
> > this water is coming from the hatch seal?   The harnesses for the hatch
> > have been screwed up, and have been laying across the seal, which of
> > course, does not seal now.  It looks like the channel above the seal
> should
> > take most of the water out.  Maybe not   Anyone BTDT?
>
> The source of the water is often from around the rear side windows (THE
> STATIONARY ONES) and resealing them is a chore. I haven't heard of the
> rear hatch seals causing a problem unless the hatch isn't aligned, but
> if the seal is damaged, that could certainly do it.
>
> Marshall
> --
>  Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions)
>   "der Dieseling Doktor" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> '87 300TD 182Kmi, '84 190D 2.2 229Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 161Kmi, '87 190D 2.5
> turbo 237kmi
>
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Re: [MBZ] 124 Wagon Steering - Possible Bad Power Steering Pump

[Dave Wakin]

Plan to get change that and see what happens - thanks again for your help

Dave

- Original Message - 
From: "Marshall Booth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 2:31 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 124 Wagon Steering - Possible Bad Power Steering Pump



Dave Wakin wrote:

Thanks for the reply Marshall -

The car has never been in an accident and the problem doesn't seem to be
temperature related as it did it on the way to work today (about 20 or so
out).

I will check the ball joints.

Would a clogged filter do this? What has me confused is after I turned 
and
moved the plastic piece inside the reservoir, the steering seemed to be 
much

better (didn't drive, just moved wheels side to side).


Clearly worth changing the filter and fluid to see if it helps. Ball
joints commonly fail after 150-200kmi. If one is bad, it's prudent to
replace both as they have seen the same service and commonly wear at the
same rate.

Marshall
--
  Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions)
  "der Dieseling Doktor" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
'87 300TD 182Kmi, '84 190D 2.2 229Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 161Kmi, '87 190D 2.5
turbo 237kmi

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Re: [MBZ] 124 Wagon Steering - Possible Bad Power Steering Pump

[Marshall Booth]

Dave Wakin wrote:

Thanks for the reply Marshall -

The car has never been in an accident and the problem doesn't seem to be 
temperature related as it did it on the way to work today (about 20 or so 
out).


I will check the ball joints.

Would a clogged filter do this? What has me confused is after I turned and 
moved the plastic piece inside the reservoir, the steering seemed to be much 
better (didn't drive, just moved wheels side to side).


Clearly worth changing the filter and fluid to see if it helps. Ball 
joints commonly fail after 150-200kmi. If one is bad, it's prudent to 
replace both as they have seen the same service and commonly wear at the 
same rate.


Marshall
--
  Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions)
  "der Dieseling Doktor" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
'87 300TD 182Kmi, '84 190D 2.2 229Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 161Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 
turbo 237kmi

Re: [MBZ] 124 Wagon Steering - Possible Bad Power Steering Pump

[Dave Wakin]

Thanks for the reply Marshall -

The car has never been in an accident and the problem doesn't seem to be 
temperature related as it did it on the way to work today (about 20 or so 
out).


I will check the ball joints.

Would a clogged filter do this? What has me confused is after I turned and 
moved the plastic piece inside the reservoir, the steering seemed to be much 
better (didn't drive, just moved wheels side to side).


Thanks

Dave Wakin
this car is the 1990 300TE with 137K




PS pumps fail. Sometimes by leaking and sometimes by not pumping. I
could IMAGINE it pumping okay when cold and poorly when hot. The high
pressure line CAN become occluded (not unusual if the car has had a
front end collision - the hose LOOKS fine) and this might be worse when
hot than cold. If the ball joints rust up (NOT unusual for a car that
sits for months) the steering can get VERY stiff, but it's NOT usually
temperature sensitive. Only new ball joints will fix that.

Marshall
--
  Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions)
  "der Dieseling Doktor" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
'87 300TD 182Kmi, '84 190D 2.2 229Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 161Kmi, '87 190D 2.5
turbo 237kmi

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Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon leaks

[Loren Faeth]

Thank you, Sir!

At 10:30 AM 3/27/2006, you wrote:

Loren Faeth wrote:
> The 88 300TE is getting water in both rear wheel wells.  Under the third
> seat is also getting wet.  When I open the seat back and bottom, the 
carpet

> underneath is wet.  Can anyone shed light as to what the source of the
> water is?On the right, I suspect the antenna.  Is it possible that all
> this water is coming from the hatch seal?   The harnesses for the hatch
> have been screwed up, and have been laying across the seal, which of
> course, does not seal now.  It looks like the channel above the seal 
should

> take most of the water out.  Maybe not   Anyone BTDT?
>
> Same message, but this time i won't forget to sign it for Marshall!
>

and I already answered 'cause I knew it was you

Marshall
--
  Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions)
   "der Dieseling Doktor" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
'87 300TD 182Kmi, '84 190D 2.2 229Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 161Kmi, '87 190D 2.5
turbo 237kmi

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Re: [MBZ] 124 Wagon Steering - Possible Bad Power Steering Pump

[Marshall Booth]

Dave Wakin wrote:
I am hoping someone can give me some pointers on what to check here - the 
car is my wifes 90 300TE with 137K on it. The car was basically parked for 
the winter and we just started using it again.


We took it to my MIL this weekend (about 60 miles), and it was the first 
time I had driven it other then around the block. Not long into the trip it 
felt like the steering started to get stiff and tight, almost like there is 
no power steering. I pulled over and checked the fluid - there was plenty, 
and it was nice and warm. I moved the plastic plunger thing that is in the 
middle of the cup up and down and turned it (not sure what this is, but I 
moved it around).


When I got back in the car, I turned the wheels side to side and they turned 
with little effort. However, back on the road, it seems like it is fighting 
me around corners and turns. I took it to work today, and at startup I did 
the side-to-side wheel test again and it feels stiff again.


Not sure what else to check - maybe the PS Filter? I figured I would change 
that and the fluid and go from there, but I am not sure I am looking at the 
right peice in the puzzle.


PS pumps fail. Sometimes by leaking and sometimes by not pumping. I 
could IMAGINE it pumping okay when cold and poorly when hot. The high 
pressure line CAN become occluded (not unusual if the car has had a 
front end collision - the hose LOOKS fine) and this might be worse when 
hot than cold. If the ball joints rust up (NOT unusual for a car that 
sits for months) the steering can get VERY stiff, but it's NOT usually 
temperature sensitive. Only new ball joints will fix that.


Marshall
--
  Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions)
  "der Dieseling Doktor" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
'87 300TD 182Kmi, '84 190D 2.2 229Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 161Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 
turbo 237kmi

Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon leaks

[Marshall Booth]

Loren Faeth wrote:
The 88 300TE is getting water in both rear wheel wells.  Under the third 
seat is also getting wet.  When I open the seat back and bottom, the carpet 
underneath is wet.  Can anyone shed light as to what the source of the 
water is?On the right, I suspect the antenna.  Is it possible that all 
this water is coming from the hatch seal?   The harnesses for the hatch 
have been screwed up, and have been laying across the seal, which of 
course, does not seal now.  It looks like the channel above the seal should 
take most of the water out.  Maybe not   Anyone BTDT?


Same message, but this time i won't forget to sign it for Marshall!



and I already answered 'cause I knew it was you

Marshall
--
  Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions)
  "der Dieseling Doktor" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
'87 300TD 182Kmi, '84 190D 2.2 229Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 161Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 
turbo 237kmi

[MBZ] 124 Wagon Steering - Possible Bad Power Steering Pump

[Dave Wakin]

I am hoping someone can give me some pointers on what to check here - the 
car is my wifes 90 300TE with 137K on it. The car was basically parked for 
the winter and we just started using it again.


We took it to my MIL this weekend (about 60 miles), and it was the first 
time I had driven it other then around the block. Not long into the trip it 
felt like the steering started to get stiff and tight, almost like there is 
no power steering. I pulled over and checked the fluid - there was plenty, 
and it was nice and warm. I moved the plastic plunger thing that is in the 
middle of the cup up and down and turned it (not sure what this is, but I 
moved it around).


When I got back in the car, I turned the wheels side to side and they turned 
with little effort. However, back on the road, it seems like it is fighting 
me around corners and turns. I took it to work today, and at startup I did 
the side-to-side wheel test again and it feels stiff again.


Not sure what else to check - maybe the PS Filter? I figured I would change 
that and the fluid and go from there, but I am not sure I am looking at the 
right peice in the puzzle.


Thanks in advance,

Dave Wakin 

Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon leaks

[Loren Faeth]

Is the leakage between the glass and the side window frame, or between the 
frame and the body?  Or do both need to be resealed?


I figured I should start by sitting in the back at a carwash.  Short of 
locating the leaks, I figured the hatch seal was a good place to start.


Loren
88 TE
et al.


At 07:45 AM 3/27/2006, you wrote:

Loren Faeth wrote:
> The 88 300TE is getting water in both rear wheel wells.  Under the third
> seat is also getting wet.  When I open the seat back and bottom, the 
carpet

> underneath is wet.  Can anyone shed light as to what the source of the
> water is?On the right, I suspect the antenna.  Is it possible that all
> this water is coming from the hatch seal?   The harnesses for the hatch
> have been screwed up, and have been laying across the seal, which of
> course, does not seal now.  It looks like the channel above the seal 
should

> take most of the water out.  Maybe not   Anyone BTDT?

The source of the water is often from around the rear side windows (THE
STATIONARY ONES) and resealing them is a chore. I haven't heard of the
rear hatch seals causing a problem unless the hatch isn't aligned, but
if the seal is damaged, that could certainly do it.

Marshall
--
  Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions)
   "der Dieseling Doktor" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
'87 300TD 182Kmi, '84 190D 2.2 229Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 161Kmi, '87 190D 2.5
turbo 237kmi

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Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon leaks

[Marshall Booth]

Loren Faeth wrote:
The 88 300TE is getting water in both rear wheel wells.  Under the third 
seat is also getting wet.  When I open the seat back and bottom, the carpet 
underneath is wet.  Can anyone shed light as to what the source of the 
water is?On the right, I suspect the antenna.  Is it possible that all 
this water is coming from the hatch seal?   The harnesses for the hatch 
have been screwed up, and have been laying across the seal, which of 
course, does not seal now.  It looks like the channel above the seal should 
take most of the water out.  Maybe not   Anyone BTDT?


The source of the water is often from around the rear side windows (THE 
STATIONARY ONES) and resealing them is a chore. I haven't heard of the 
rear hatch seals causing a problem unless the hatch isn't aligned, but 
if the seal is damaged, that could certainly do it.


Marshall
--
  Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions)
  "der Dieseling Doktor" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
'87 300TD 182Kmi, '84 190D 2.2 229Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 161Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 
turbo 237kmi

[MBZ] 124 wagon leaks

[Loren Faeth]

The 88 300TE is getting water in both rear wheel wells.  Under the third 
seat is also getting wet.  When I open the seat back and bottom, the carpet 
underneath is wet.  Can anyone shed light as to what the source of the 
water is?On the right, I suspect the antenna.  Is it possible that all 
this water is coming from the hatch seal?   The harnesses for the hatch 
have been screwed up, and have been laying across the seal, which of 
course, does not seal now.  It looks like the channel above the seal should 
take most of the water out.  Maybe not   Anyone BTDT?


Same message, but this time i won't forget to sign it for Marshall!

Loren Faeth
88 300 TE
et al.

[MBZ] 124 wagon leaks

[Loren Faeth]

The 88 300TE is getting water in both rear wheel wells.  Under the third 
seat is also getting wet.  When I open the seat back and bottom, the carpet 
underneath is wet.  Can anyone shed light as to what the source of the 
water is?On the right, I suspect the antenna.  Is it possible that all 
this water is coming from the hatch seal?   The harnesses for the hatch 
have been screwed up, and have been laying across the seal, which of 
course, does not seal now.  It looks like the channel above the seal should 
take most of the water out.  Maybe not   Anyone BTDT?

Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon Rear strut/shock

[l02turner]

Don't know about the W123 Hydropneumatic struts - but the old W108s used one 
next to the rear axle and they were *not* rebuildable.  There were some 
companies offering a coil spring kit to replace a bad hydro strut.  I 
bought a spring kit for around $55 IIRC.  I believe the struts were almost 
$500 at the time.


I really like those old W108s, W109s & W111's but they require deep pockets 
to keep them going.   I wish I still had one though.


Sincerely,
Larry T ('74 911, '67 MGB, 91 300D Turbo)
A Blood Test for your oil - www.youroil.net
For Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil
Weber Carb Stuff http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs
http://members.rennlist.com/my_911/Index.htm For my Paint Job Info
- Original Message - 
From: "Real Estate" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 7:09 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon Rear strut/shock



Hi Chuck,

 I know the new ones are $500 each.  I know the 123s can be rebuilt.  I am 
hoping there is a rebuild option for the 124.  Shock Absorber; Rear 
Left/Right; Hydropneumatic Self-Leveling is the book jargon.  I have heard 
them referred to as shocks and as struts.  I don't care what anyone wants 
to call them, I just hope I don't have to shell out $1000 (plus the other 
parts) to get this car running.


 Has anyone out there got a Shock Absorber;  Hydropneumatic Self-Leveling, 
that you could look at to see if it comes apart?


 Loren

Chuck Landenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 Loren,

I'm no expert on the 124's... But I don't think the rears are
"struts"..
What I've chased shows the following:

Shock Absorber; Rear Left/Right; Hydropneumatic Self-Leveling  
They ain't cheap!


There are struts on the front only.

Hope this helps...

Chuck
Phoenix AZ
On Feb 20, 2006, at 4:40 PM, Real Estate wrote:


I want to rebuild the rear struts in the 88 TE. I know others have
rebuilt the 123 hydraulic struts. Rusty can't find a kit to sell
me for the 124 wagon struts. Has anyone rebuilt 124 struts, or is
the only choice to buy new ones? I need a source for parts, and
advice about any tools needed. Are they simply o-rings, and I buy
the boot and mouninting kit, then find orings locally?

Les, are you lurking out there? I think you have the answer?

Loren Faeth
88 300TE
87 TD, et al




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Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon Rear strut/shock

[Real Estate]

Hi Chuck, 
   
  I know the new ones are $500 each.  I know the 123s can be rebuilt.  I am 
hoping there is a rebuild option for the 124.  Shock Absorber; Rear Left/Right; 
Hydropneumatic Self-Leveling is the book jargon.  I have heard them referred to 
as shocks and as struts.  I don't care what anyone wants to call them, I just 
hope I don't have to shell out $1000 (plus the other parts) to get this car 
running.
   
  Has anyone out there got a Shock Absorber;  Hydropneumatic Self-Leveling, 
that you could look at to see if it comes apart?
   
  Loren

Chuck Landenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  Loren,

I'm no expert on the 124's... But I don't think the rears are 
"struts"..
What I've chased shows the following:

Shock Absorber; Rear Left/Right; Hydropneumatic Self-Leveling  
They ain't cheap!

There are struts on the front only.

Hope this helps...

Chuck
Phoenix AZ
On Feb 20, 2006, at 4:40 PM, Real Estate wrote:

> I want to rebuild the rear struts in the 88 TE. I know others have 
> rebuilt the 123 hydraulic struts. Rusty can't find a kit to sell 
> me for the 124 wagon struts. Has anyone rebuilt 124 struts, or is 
> the only choice to buy new ones? I need a source for parts, and 
> advice about any tools needed. Are they simply o-rings, and I buy 
> the boot and mouninting kit, then find orings locally?
>
> Les, are you lurking out there? I think you have the answer?
>
> Loren Faeth
> 88 300TE
> 87 TD, et al
>
>
>
> 
> -
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On Monday, February 20, 2006, at 06:20 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>
> in other news..
> i was wondering how every one has been dong regarding house heat
> it has been  a mild winter here in phila
>  i have a wood stove insert that has saved me a fortune in heating  
> costs in
> my living room fireplace and a fireplace in the basement that i  use 
> for
> enjoyment ( not a good efficient  source of heat  really)
> so ... do we have any other wood burners out there ?
> mike collins
> phila pa 1985 500 sec
> Go Villanova
>
>


Yup, we did this last week or so. I burn 5-6 cords each Winter. 2 
Vermont castings stoves.

Johnny B.
I Mac Therefore I am

Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon Rear strut/shock

[Chuck Landenberger]

Loren,

I'm no expert on the 124's...  But I don't think the rears are  
"struts"..

What I've chased shows the following:

Shock Absorber; Rear Left/Right; Hydropneumatic Self-Leveling   
They ain't cheap!


There are struts on the front only.

Hope this helps...

Chuck
Phoenix AZ
On Feb 20, 2006, at 4:40 PM, Real Estate wrote:

I want to rebuild the rear struts in the 88 TE.  I know others have  
rebuilt the 123 hydraulic struts.  Rusty can't find a kit to sell  
me for the 124 wagon struts.  Has anyone rebuilt 124 struts, or is  
the only choice to buy new ones?  I need a source for parts, and  
advice about any tools needed.  Are they simply o-rings, and I buy  
the boot and mouninting kit, then find orings locally?


  Les, are you lurking out there?  I think you have the answer?

  Loren Faeth
  88 300TE
  87 TD, et al




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[MBZ] 124 wagon Rear strut/shock

[Real Estate]

I want to rebuild the rear struts in the 88 TE.  I know others have rebuilt the 
123 hydraulic struts.  Rusty can't find a kit to sell me for the 124 wagon 
struts.  Has anyone rebuilt 124 struts, or is the only choice to buy new ones?  
I need a source for parts, and advice about any tools needed.  Are they simply 
o-rings, and I buy the boot and mouninting kit, then find orings locally?
   
  Les, are you lurking out there?  I think you have the answer?
   
  Loren Faeth
  88 300TE
  87 TD, et al




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Most parts stores that carry Wix filters will have the oil filter (and 
Wix is very good).  Probably 8 quarts if the 603 engine is a guide, at 
least 6 anyway.

Should take 8 qts of AFT if you drain the torque converter, five or six 
if you don't.

Peter

Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon hydraulic suspension

[David Bruckmann]

You can use VW mineral hydraulic fluid G002000, also known as 
Pentosin 11S. It is green, and should be available at any auto parts 
store or VW/Audi dealer. Usually between $10 and $20/litre, sold in 
1L square steel cans.


Struts are only bad if they leak. The MB service materials specify a 
permissible leak rate (0.4L/10,000km for W123 models). You can't 
diagnose the system until there is fluid in it.


D.


At 11:57 PM + 2/18/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

--

Message: 6
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 14:51:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Real Estate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [MBZ] 124 wagon hydraulic suspension
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

I am away working on the 300TE I bought.

  On the 88 300 TE i just got, there is no fluid in the suspension 
reservoir.  THe rear struts have the boots pushed up.  There is 
evidence that the hydraulic suspension has not worked for some time. 
Please send replies directly to [EMAIL PROTECTED] since I am away 
from home and it is easier to use on the road than my regular email 
account.


  1.  Any advice where to start?  I have no febi fluid and can't get 
any for at least 2 days.  Did anyone ever locate anything else that 
would be compatible enough for leak testing?  I plan to order the 
febi, but I'd lke to figure out what needs fixing ASAP because I 
have 2 more days here that I can work on it.


  2. I am assuming that the Dual pump is toasted on the suspension 
side.  Someone rebuilt the dual pump.  I think it was Hans N.  Can 
anyone tell me about rebuilding the pump.  Did you get the parts 
form Rusty?  This car has a distributor at the front of the cam, not 
a suspension hydraulic pump.


  3.  Is there any way to test the rear struts without fluid or the 
pump working?  I am guessing not, but anything I can do now to 
determine what I need to order will be helpful.  I am guessing the 
struts are blown, or at least while everything is empty it would be 
a good time to rebuild them.  Has anyone done this?  are there any 
special tools needed?


  Thank you all for any collective wisdom you can impart.

  A little history:  This is the Warrenton , VA car.  WHen it got 
here it would not start.  (Starter turned, but won't engage.) 
Supposedly it has a bad trans but everything else was  ok.  I took 
the starter out and found the bendix rusted tight.  I took it apart 
and polished the shaft and put it back together with neversieze.  I 
got the car running ant the engine seems ok .  It appears to have 
been sitting for at least 6 months.  THe PO has 10 different recent 
addresses.  It looks like this wagon has been used for hauling.  I 
wonder if it was used on a paper route.  It is a pretty decent car, 
except that it won't start, and the hydraulic suspension is a mess 
and supposedly the trans is bad.  So far the trans seems to shift 
ok.  It looks like the biggest problems are with the suspension.


  On my test run the engine died.  It has no spark, so now I am 
trying to track that down.  Coil has 0.2 to 0.3 ohm across the 
primary terminals and about 88K ohms from either primary to the 
secondary.


  The rollback driver didn't tie it down cause we were only going 
about 1/4 mile and it slid forward and cracked the grill.  Bummer! 
It is around zero so too cold to diagnose on the roadside.


  Loren Faeth
  verturing into the gasser world, tentatively




--
David Bruckmann, Toronto, Canada.
Current Reality:
1970 Citroen DS21 Pallas (170,000 km) "Goettin"
1976 Citroen 2CV6 (142,000 km) "Piaf"  http://dolly.bruckmann.com/
1984 Mercedes-Benz 300TD (370,000 km) "Gertraud"
1986 Renault 9 (AMC Alliance) 1.7 (140,000 km) - as yet unnamed
Shady Past:
1971 Citroen DS21 Pallas (137,000km), 1972 Citroen DS21 Pallas (502,000km)
1978 Mercedes-Benz 300D (1,200,000 km or thereabouts) "Sieglinde"
1979 Mercedes-Benz 300TD non-turbo (260,000 km)  "Diva"
1981 Citroen 2CV6 Charleston (120,000km), 1988 Merkur XR4Ti (209,000km)
1981 Peugeot 505 GRD (350,000km), 1985 Toyota Camry "The Slamry" 
(330,000km) 2002 VW Golf GLS TDI (74,000 km)


--

[MBZ] 124 wagon

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mercedes-Benz-300-Series-6-cyl-TD-87-Mercedes-300-TD-Wagon-Turbo-Diesel-No-Reserve_W0QQitemZ4583384257QQcategoryZ6330QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
--
Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE,
 85 300D,  83 300TD, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 81 240D,
 76 450SEL, 76 240D, 76 300D, 74 240D, 69 250
Okie Benz Auto parts-email for used parts

Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon trailer hitch

[Kevin]

On Thu, Jul 14, 2005 at 08:32:46AM -0500, Loren Faeth wrote:
> The valley hitch at Hitches 4 less says it is USA Spec only.  That leads me 
> to believe there is some difference under the car.  There was a huge 
> difference under our Euro 123 1984 wagon and our US 123 1985 wagon.  I 
> never knew is it was  EUro vs USA, gas vs diesel, or 1984 vs 1985 or some 
> combination of variables

I'd consider doing a valley hitch if they'd make one with a two inch
receiver instead of the cheezy small ones. My trailer hitch bike rack is a
two incher, as are the myriad of drops, rises, sliders, etc, etc. If all
they'll do is a cheesy smaller one, I'll just stick to using the colony 
park or country squire if I want to use a wagon, or one of the jeeps, or even
the powerchoke.

K

Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon trailer hitch

[Loren Faeth]

The valley hitch at Hitches 4 less says it is USA Spec only.  That leads me 
to believe there is some difference under the car.  There was a huge 
difference under our Euro 123 1984 wagon and our US 123 1985 wagon.  I 
never knew is it was  EUro vs USA, gas vs diesel, or 1984 vs 1985 or some 
combination of variables


At 09:15 AM 7/13/2005, you wrote:

Dieselvolk,

OK, I've dug into the Euro EPC Compact and found plenty of info, including 
diagrams of the factory hitch, part #'s, and reference to the 1900 kg rating.


So, given that these would fit a 124.193 in Europe, will the same parts 
fit into a 124.193 in US spec?


Has anyone searched the MBUSA EPC for 124 hitch info?  I tried my MBUSA 
EPC last night, but it has stopped working for the moment and I didn't 
have time to fix it.


Anyone know if there is a difference in the rear bumpers between US spec 
and Euro spec?  I know that for the 123 series, US safety laws mandated 
the bigger 'shock absorper' design for the US, so a Euro hitch will not 
easily fit a US model.


If anyone is interested in these diagrams, I'm going to post them over at 
Rusty's forum under a thread with the same title.


Max

Very respectfully,
/s/
LCDR Meade M. Dillon, USNR
Digest Lurker since 2001
'85 300TD 321k miles (Euro 5spd)
'96 Infiniti I30 149k miles (wife's 5spd)
'73 Balboa 20 'Sanctification'
Charleston SC


___
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For new parts see www.buymbparts.com
For repairs see www.oldworldauto.com

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[MBZ] 124 wagon hitch - aftermarket

[meadedillon]

Jan,

Thanks for those links.  Curiously, the hitches-4-less link says that it's 
rated for 3500 lbs, fits the 300 class SEDANS, including the 300TD.  I'll 
probably have to call them to see which is the real story.

As far as the metric vs. english problem, I've got a metric (50 mm) hitch on my 
123 wagon, and a 2 inch socket on the trailer, and that has worked just fine 
for me, so I'm not worried about that.  50 mm is slighly smaller than 2 inches, 
and my trailer has an adjustment to tighten the gripping action, so I tightened 
that up a little, keep it well greased, and I've not had any problems yet.

OK, I'd really love to hear from someone who has a Euro hitch on a 124 US spec. 
wagon.  Anyone BTDT?

Thanks,
Max

Very respectfully,
/s/
LCDR Meade M. Dillon, USNR
Digest Lurker since 2001
’85 300TD 321k miles (Euro 5spd)
'96 Infiniti I30 149k miles (wife's 5spd)
'73 Balboa 20 'Sanctification'
Charleston SC

Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon trailer hitch

[Joe Knight]

Same bumper on both.

joe

[MBZ] 124 wagon trailer hitch

[meadedillon]

Dieselvolk,

OK, I've dug into the Euro EPC Compact and found plenty of info, including 
diagrams of the factory hitch, part #'s, and reference to the 1900 kg rating.

So, given that these would fit a 124.193 in Europe, will the same parts fit 
into a 124.193 in US spec?

Has anyone searched the MBUSA EPC for 124 hitch info?  I tried my MBUSA EPC 
last night, but it has stopped working for the moment and I didn't have time to 
fix it.

Anyone know if there is a difference in the rear bumpers between US spec and 
Euro spec?  I know that for the 123 series, US safety laws mandated the bigger 
'shock absorper' design for the US, so a Euro hitch will not easily fit a US 
model.

If anyone is interested in these diagrams, I'm going to post them over at 
Rusty's forum under a thread with the same title.

Max

Very respectfully,
/s/
LCDR Meade M. Dillon, USNR
Digest Lurker since 2001
’85 300TD 321k miles (Euro 5spd)
'96 Infiniti I30 149k miles (wife's 5spd)
'73 Balboa 20 'Sanctification'
Charleston SC

Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon buyers guide needed

[Marshall Booth]

JabbaHursty wrote:
do the 124s rust up north?  i ask this because outside of a few common 
spots, I am yet to see a 124 with rust.  just looking at my 109 and 115 
brings up bubbles or rust, my 123s have considerable rust, but my 2 124s 
show nearly nothing.


The rust protection on 124/201s is the best that Mercedes ever provided 
(in my opinion). Yes they CAN rust - especially in a high salt use area, 
but it takes considerably longer. The first spot(s) to show rust is/are 
USUALLY the the sheet metal surrounding the jack sockets. All but one of 
my cars has had SOME rust around the jack sockets repaired. All of my 
cars were driven year round in the rust belt. Where MOST 124/201s rust 
is anywhere they have been repaired! Few shops properly treat the metal 
(inside or out) after it's repaired and every repair on my cars has show 
signs of rust within 5-7 years after the repair.


Marshall
--
  Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions)
  "der Dieseling Doktor" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
'87 300TD 181Kmi,'87 190D 2.5 199Kmi, '84 190D 2.2 227Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 
159Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 234kmi

  Diesel Technical Advisor MBCA, member GWSection
http://www.dhc.net/~pmhack/mercedes/mbooth1.htm

Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon buyers guide needed

[Kevin]

On Tue, Jul 05, 2005 at 07:23:43AM -0600, Dave M. wrote:
> Kevin,
> 
> There isn't really any alignment needed on the tensioner seal. More
> likely (?) you had the wrong one. There is an early tensioner and a
> late/improved tensioner. The newer one requires a larger aluminum
> O-ring seal. If you put a small O-ring on a newer/larger tensioner, it
> would get all boogered up. The O-ring should fit neatly on the
> tensioner seat. Something to consider, anyway. This is documented in
> the FSM somewhere. My white and blue cars had different tensioners,
> that's how I discovered this little tidbit... another 'gotcha' to add
> to your list!

This was the tensioner and ring off the #14 head, with nothing done to
them, just installed after filling with oil since it sat forever.

It is plainly visible on the aluminum washer that the tensioner did not
seat centered on the washer, and the washer was damaged as a result. I
doubt the line will be visible on a digital picture. The washer did fit
neatly on the tensioner, but in fiddling with the tensioner to get it
threaded, it lost alignment.

K

Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon buyers guide needed

[JabbaHursty]

do the 124s rust up north?  i ask this because outside of a few common 
spots, I am yet to see a 124 with rust.  just looking at my 109 and 115 
brings up bubbles or rust, my 123s have considerable rust, but my 2 124s 
show nearly nothing.



At 01:08 PM 7/5/2005, you wrote:

andrew strasfogel wrote:

All this talk about those new-fangled 124 wagons being the best in the
universe makes me mad!  I just love my 1983 300TD with 275 K miles. It 
has enough pep to pass almost anyone on the highway, enough room to

carry anything reasonably sized, is as trustworthy as an old hound
dog, and has enough rust to keep me just the slightest bit on edge. The 
engines don't break, either (though I've had to do two

transmission rebuilds).


Andrew, I owned 3 different 123 wagons ('80, 82 & '85) and was convinced 
they were the ULTIMATE wagon (each was a modest improvement over the 
previous model) UNTIL I drove a 124 wagon from Pgh to Washington DC and 
back in late '87. I swapped in a minute and have NEVER regretted it (even 
when enduring most of the EXPENSIVE repairs unique to the 124)!


The 123 is more rugged, will probably last longer (there is no evidence 
that the OM60x engines fail any sooner as long as it's NOT an OM603 turbo 
that's been overheated) though 123s WILL rust sooner. 123s will probably 
ultimately cost less to maintain. BUT 123s DON'T DRIVE NEARLY AS WELL - 
not even close. I've made dozens of 2-3kmi trips in both models and the 
124 is a quantum improvement over the 123. It IS the ultimate wagon (I do 
plan to audition a NEW "C" class wagon in the next few months).


Marshall
--
  Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions)
  "der Dieseling Doktor" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
'87 300TD 181Kmi,'87 190D 2.5 199Kmi, '84 190D 2.2 227Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 
159Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 234kmi

  Diesel Technical Advisor MBCA, member GWSection
http://www.dhc.net/~pmhack/mercedes/mbooth1.htm


___
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For new parts see www.buymbparts.com
For repairs see www.oldworldauto.com

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Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon buyers guide needed

[Marshall Booth]

andrew strasfogel wrote:

All this talk about those new-fangled 124 wagons being the best in the
universe makes me mad!  I just love my 1983 300TD with 275 K miles. 
It has enough pep to pass almost anyone on the highway, enough room to

carry anything reasonably sized, is as trustworthy as an old hound
dog, and has enough rust to keep me just the slightest bit on edge. 
The engines don't break, either (though I've had to do two

transmission rebuilds).


Andrew, I owned 3 different 123 wagons ('80, 82 & '85) and was convinced 
they were the ULTIMATE wagon (each was a modest improvement over the 
previous model) UNTIL I drove a 124 wagon from Pgh to Washington DC and 
back in late '87. I swapped in a minute and have NEVER regretted it 
(even when enduring most of the EXPENSIVE repairs unique to the 124)!


The 123 is more rugged, will probably last longer (there is no evidence 
that the OM60x engines fail any sooner as long as it's NOT an OM603 
turbo that's been overheated) though 123s WILL rust sooner. 123s will 
probably ultimately cost less to maintain. BUT 123s DON'T DRIVE NEARLY 
AS WELL - not even close. I've made dozens of 2-3kmi trips in both 
models and the 124 is a quantum improvement over the 123. It IS the 
ultimate wagon (I do plan to audition a NEW "C" class wagon in the next 
few months).


Marshall
--
  Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions)
  "der Dieseling Doktor" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
'87 300TD 181Kmi,'87 190D 2.5 199Kmi, '84 190D 2.2 227Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 
159Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 234kmi

  Diesel Technical Advisor MBCA, member GWSection
http://www.dhc.net/~pmhack/mercedes/mbooth1.htm

Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon buyers guide needed

[andrew strasfogel]

All this talk about those new-fangled 124 wagons being the best in the
universe makes me mad!  I just love my 1983 300TD with 275 K miles. 
It has enough pep to pass almost anyone on the highway, enough room to
carry anything reasonably sized, is as trustworthy as an old hound
dog, and has enough rust to keep me just the slightest bit on edge. 
The engines don't break, either (though I've had to do two
transmission rebuilds).

On 7/5/05, Dave M. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Kevin,
> 
> There isn't really any alignment needed on the tensioner seal. More
> likely (?) you had the wrong one. There is an early tensioner and a
> late/improved tensioner. The newer one requires a larger aluminum
> O-ring seal. If you put a small O-ring on a newer/larger tensioner, it
> would get all boogered up. The O-ring should fit neatly on the
> tensioner seat. Something to consider, anyway. This is documented in
> the FSM somewhere. My white and blue cars had different tensioners,
> that's how I discovered this little tidbit... another 'gotcha' to add
> to your list!
> 
> :-)
> 
> -Dave M.
> 
> > --
> > Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 21:53:54 -0700
> > From: Kevin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Subject: Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon buyers guide needed
> >
> >
> > The car lights off and is more or less happy, but the pressure leak out
> > the chain tensioner because some moron (who, me?) didn't have the alignment
> > of the aluminum spacer washer between the tensioner and the head spot on
> > perfect, and munched the washer. Oh well, I haven't talked to Rusty
> > recently...
> >
> > K
> 
> ___
> For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> For new parts see www.buymbparts.com
> For repairs see www.oldworldauto.com
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
>

Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon buyers guide needed

[Dave M.]

Kevin,

There isn't really any alignment needed on the tensioner seal. More
likely (?) you had the wrong one. There is an early tensioner and a
late/improved tensioner. The newer one requires a larger aluminum
O-ring seal. If you put a small O-ring on a newer/larger tensioner, it
would get all boogered up. The O-ring should fit neatly on the
tensioner seat. Something to consider, anyway. This is documented in
the FSM somewhere. My white and blue cars had different tensioners,
that's how I discovered this little tidbit... another 'gotcha' to add
to your list!

:-)

-Dave M.

> --
> Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 21:53:54 -0700
> From: Kevin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon buyers guide needed
> 
> 
> The car lights off and is more or less happy, but the pressure leak out
> the chain tensioner because some moron (who, me?) didn't have the alignment
> of the aluminum spacer washer between the tensioner and the head spot on
> perfect, and munched the washer. Oh well, I haven't talked to Rusty
> recently...
> 
> K

Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon buyers guide needed

[Joe Knight]

Sounds like you're getting close, Kevin.  When do I get to take it for a spin?

joe

On 7/4/05, Kevin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 04, 2005 at 10:12:32AM -0500, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:
> > so can the 14 heads be repaired at a machine shop, and if so, will the
> > problem just come up again?
> 
> Kaleb,
> 
> Having *JUST* gone through replacing a cracked head on an 87 300D, I can
> say without a doubt that I would not waste my time, effort, blood, sweat,
> beer, money, and patience on the job if I was just replacing the head with
> another #14, or having the #14 on the car repaired.
> 
> That said, with all the infernal gotchas being seen first hand, the next
> replacement will probably not take near as long.
> 
> The car lights off and is more or less happy, but the pressure leak out
> the chain tensioner because some moron (who, me?) didn't have the alignment
> of the aluminum spacer washer between the tensioner and the head spot on
> perfect, and munched the washer. Oh well, I haven't talked to Rusty
> recently...

Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon buyers guide needed

[Kevin]

On Mon, Jul 04, 2005 at 10:12:32AM -0500, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:
> so can the 14 heads be repaired at a machine shop, and if so, will the 
> problem just come up again?

Kaleb,

Having *JUST* gone through replacing a cracked head on an 87 300D, I can
say without a doubt that I would not waste my time, effort, blood, sweat,
beer, money, and patience on the job if I was just replacing the head with 
another #14, or having the #14 on the car repaired.

That said, with all the infernal gotchas being seen first hand, the next
replacement will probably not take near as long.

The car lights off and is more or less happy, but the pressure leak out
the chain tensioner because some moron (who, me?) didn't have the alignment
of the aluminum spacer washer between the tensioner and the head spot on 
perfect, and munched the washer. Oh well, I haven't talked to Rusty 
recently...

K

Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon buyers guide needed

[Steve MacSween]

>From what I understand, head repairs are never guaranteed by shops to start
with, and you would need a really good shop to properly work on any diesel
head.

Mac

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:
>> so can the 14 heads be repaired at a machine shop, and if so, will the
>> problem just come up again?
> 
> The history of repairing those heads is VERY poor. I know of a few that
> have been repaired and the repairs have lasted more than 20kmi but MOST
> of the attemps at repair that have been reported to me have failed much
> sooner (some immediately). Almost every repair I know of was made and
> then the car was immediately sold - passing the problem on to the nesxt
> guy! You'd probably be a LOT better off with a clean good used or
> rebuilt "14" head.

Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon buyers guide needed

[Marshall Booth]

Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:
so can the 14 heads be repaired at a machine shop, and if so, will the 
problem just come up again?


The history of repairing those heads is VERY poor. I know of a few that 
have been repaired and the repairs have lasted more than 20kmi but MOST 
of the attemps at repair that have been reported to me have failed much 
sooner (some immediately). Almost every repair I know of was made and 
then the car was immediately sold - passing the problem on to the nesxt 
guy! You'd probably be a LOT better off with a clean good used or 
rebuilt "14" head.


The head design was not strong enough until it was redesigned in the 
late '80s. Repairing one that has failed leaves you with a head that was 
marginally inadequate that's been repaired - not usually a model for 
success. Just making a repair that's as uniform and strong as the 
original (which was inadequate) is problematic.


Marshall
--
  Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions)
  "der Dieseling Doktor" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
'87 300TD 181Kmi,'87 190D 2.5 199Kmi, '84 190D 2.2 227Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 
159Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 234kmi

  Diesel Technical Advisor MBCA, member GWSection
http://www.dhc.net/~pmhack/mercedes/mbooth1.htm

Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon buyers guide needed

[Marshall Booth]

Bill Gallagher wrote:

Marshall Booth wrote:
The 124 E320 TE wagon was an even nicer car IF YOU ARE WILLING TO 
TOLERATE a gasoline engine. ..
   Marshall can you explain your position on the 320 ..I do not like 
the lower MPG, 23 or so, and the much higher fuel cost than a diesel 
. I  prefer a diesel wagon than a gas, but if there is more of a 
benefit will consider a switch   tell me more .


The 124 wagon being the GREATEST wagon ever made is independent of the 
engine being gasoline or diesel. I much prefer diesel, BUT the E320 TE 
was the penultimate 124 series wagon chassis - it had all the 
refinements I'd have loved to have on my 300TD (and in Europe you could 
get it with a diesel engine). The gasoline engine's poorer fuel economy, 
increased maintenance requirements and shorter service life are 
partially compensated for with lower initial cost, simpler (but more 
frequent and expensive) maintenance, much easier fuel availability, and 
greater power/speed.


For the individual that doesn't drive the car at least 15-20kmi, a 
diesel engine will seldom result in any significant savings as the car 
will likely deteriorate from age before the engine delivers anything 
like it's service limit. Few Mercedes made since the '70s seem likely to 
last much longer than 20 years, so these cars need to be driven enough 
for the engine to roll up 400-500kmi in 20 years or 20-25kmi per year. 
This is especially true of cars that are designed/engineered to be 
entirely recycled and/or biodegradable (as all Mercedes are).


Marshall
--
  Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions)
  "der Dieseling Doktor" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
'87 300TD 181Kmi,'87 190D 2.5 199Kmi, '84 190D 2.2 227Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 
159Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 234kmi

  Diesel Technical Advisor MBCA, member GWSection
http://www.dhc.net/~pmhack/mercedes/mbooth1.htm

Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon buyers guide needed

[Joe Knight]

It *might* be possible to repair some cracks in the original 14 heads,
Kaleb, but I doubt it would make a lot of sense to try.  During the
original production of the OM603 engines, which ran iirc thru m/y '95
there were no fewer than 5 revised castings introduced, the latest of
which might have been even more recent.  Any of these later production
heads is more than likely to offer a much greater likelihood of
reliable success than repairing a 14.  There are currently 4 heads
being offered for sale thru carparts.com that look to be likely
replacement candidates.  Three of these are listed at ~$700 which
based on prior offerings is a very attractive price.  Dunno anything
about Carparts of Shelby (NC) which has posted these listings, though.
 PGA's usual price is $825.

joe

On 7/4/05, Kaleb C. Striplin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> so can the 14 heads be repaired at a machine shop, and if so, will the
> problem just come up again?

Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon buyers guide needed

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

so can the 14 heads be repaired at a machine shop, and if so, will the 
problem just come up again?


Marshall Booth wrote:


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Shipmates,

I've located an '87 300TD for sale, and the price is right, but I need 
to get smart on what the weak spots are.


According to the owner, the car has some rust but it's been fixed. The 
car is originally from MA. What are the typical places to look for 
rust? If there's some cosmetic rust, does that also means there's 
going to be hidden rust? Can the rust be stopped if caught in time?


How about A/C problems - is this model prone to requiring a new 
evaporator?


How about engine head problems - I know that #14 heads are weaker, and 
17 and up are better. Where do I look to see what # the head is?


The car has 250k miles on it, and no maintainence records, so what 
else can I look at to determine the general state of repair?


Thanks in advance, any and all advice is appreciated.

Max



The "14" (and lower) heads were sufficiently weak to crack if the engine 
were sufficiently overheated. Many cars with trap oxidizers did overheat 
(common when trap equipped cars were routinely city driven without long 
highway cruises to burn out the crud in the trap) and some of those did 
develop head cracks. A few of the engines without traps developed 
cracked heads as well, but many few than those with traps. The 603.960 
and 603.961 engines were essentially identical EXCEPT for the dual pump 
used for steering and self leveling in the wagons.


The number of head failures is about 20% (using MY numbers) and the rate 
of failures has dropped dramatically since the traps were replaced. So 
fewer than 1 in 5 will have heads with higher numbers (the revised heads 
with higher numbers were introduced in 1989)! Replacing the trap does 
NOT insure the head is not already cracked (whether symptoms were 
evident or not) or won't crack, but the rate has diminished significantly.


Probably rust will first show up under the right front fender 
(below/around the air intake) at the jack sockets and the front spring 
supports.


For Pittsburgh cars, the brake, self leveling and fuel lines can ALL 
rust thru after 17 years of winter salt (don't ask how I know this).


The evaporators were fairly likely to fail (more than 10% BY MY COUNT) 
 and air distribution vacuum actuators were likely to be fragile after 
15+ years. Replacing the evaporator and the actuators is a MAJOR job - 
12-15 hours for an experienced tech!


Check the operation of the rear side door windows - the wires going to 
the rear doors from the "B" pillars frequently broke.


In my opinion, the 124.193 300TD is the still finest diesel wagon ever 
made (although maybe not the greatest value as maintenance might eat you 
alive). The 124 E320 TE wagon was an even nicer car IF YOU ARE WILLING 
TO TOLERATE a gasoline engine.


Marshall


--
Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE, 85 300D,  81 300TD,
 81 240D, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 74 240D, 69 250
Okie Benz Auto parts-email for used parts

Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon buyers guide needed

[Bill Gallagher]

Marshall Booth wrote:
The 124 E320 TE wagon was an even nicer car IF YOU ARE WILLING TO 
TOLERATE a gasoline engine. ..
   Marshall can you explain your position on the 320 ..I do not 
like the lower MPG, 23 or so, and the much higher fuel cost than a 
diesel . I  prefer a diesel wagon than a gas, but if there is more 
of a benefit will consider a switch   tell me more .


Bill
1981 300 TD


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Shipmates,

I've located an '87 300TD for sale, and the price is right, but I 
need to get smart on what the weak spots are.


According to the owner, the car has some rust but it's been fixed. 
The car is originally from MA. What are the typical places to look 
for rust? If there's some cosmetic rust, does that also means there's 
going to be hidden rust? Can the rust be stopped if caught in time?


How about A/C problems - is this model prone to requiring a new 
evaporator?


How about engine head problems - I know that #14 heads are weaker, 
and 17 and up are better. Where do I look to see what # the head is?


The car has 250k miles on it, and no maintainence records, so what 
else can I look at to determine the general state of repair?


Thanks in advance, any and all advice is appreciated.

Max



The "14" (and lower) heads were sufficiently weak to crack if the 
engine were sufficiently overheated. Many cars with trap oxidizers did 
overheat (common when trap equipped cars were routinely city driven 
without long highway cruises to burn out the crud in the trap) and 
some of those did develop head cracks. A few of the engines without 
traps developed cracked heads as well, but many few than those with 
traps. The 603.960 and 603.961 engines were essentially identical 
EXCEPT for the dual pump used for steering and self leveling in the 
wagons.


The number of head failures is about 20% (using MY numbers) and the 
rate of failures has dropped dramatically since the traps were 
replaced. So fewer than 1 in 5 will have heads with higher numbers 
(the revised heads with higher numbers were introduced in 1989)! 
Replacing the trap does NOT insure the head is not already cracked 
(whether symptoms were evident or not) or won't crack, but the rate 
has diminished significantly.


Probably rust will first show up under the right front fender 
(below/around the air intake) at the jack sockets and the front spring 
supports.


For Pittsburgh cars, the brake, self leveling and fuel lines can ALL 
rust thru after 17 years of winter salt (don't ask how I know this).


The evaporators were fairly likely to fail (more than 10% BY MY COUNT) 
 and air distribution vacuum actuators were likely to be fragile after 
15+ years. Replacing the evaporator and the actuators is a MAJOR job - 
12-15 hours for an experienced tech!


Check the operation of the rear side door windows - the wires going to 
the rear doors from the "B" pillars frequently broke.


In my opinion, the 124.193 300TD is the still finest diesel wagon ever 
made (although maybe not the greatest value as maintenance might eat 
you alive). The 124 E320 TE wagon was an even nicer car IF YOU ARE 
WILLING TO TOLERATE a gasoline engine.


Marshall

Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon buyers guide needed

[Dave M .]

The 1987 300D/TD buyer's guide is also posted as a plain text file at this link:

http://www.w124performance.com/docs/mb/articles/124.1x3_buying_tips.txt

:-)

-dm

==
>If you've got rusted jack points, Jeff, I'd wager a tidy sum that a
>little probing of the underbody panels with a screwdriver will reveal
>a goodly number of places where the undercoating has lost its
>sheetmetal backing.  Pull the plastic panels in the front wheel wells
>and you'll find more.  On second thought, don't; you don't really want
>to know.
>
>Spud did the latest 124 buying guide revision, but unless he or
>someone else who's squirreled a copy away can send it along, accessing
>that'll have to await the resurrection of the articles at mbz.org.
>
>joe
>
>On 7/3/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Shipmates,
>> 
>> I've located an '87 300TD for sale, and the price is right, but I need to
>> get smart on what the weak spots are.
>> 
>> According to the owner, the car has some rust but it's been fixed. The car
>> is originally from MA. What are the typical places to look for rust? If
>> there's some cosmetic rust, does that also means there's going to be hidden
>> rust? Can the rust be stopped if caught in time?
>> 
>> How about A/C problems - is this model prone to requiring a new evaporator?
>> 
>> How about engine head problems - I know that #14 heads are weaker, and 17
>> and up are better. Where do I look to see what # the head is?
>> 
>> The car has 250k miles on it, and no maintainence records, so what else can
>> I look at to determine the general state of repair?
>> 
>> Thanks in advance, any and all advice is appreciated.
>> 

Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon buyers guide needed

[Marshall Booth]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Shipmates,

I've located an '87 300TD for sale, and the price is right, but I need 
to get smart on what the weak spots are.


According to the owner, the car has some rust but it's been fixed. The 
car is originally from MA. What are the typical places to look for rust? 
If there's some cosmetic rust, does that also means there's going to be 
hidden rust? Can the rust be stopped if caught in time?


How about A/C problems - is this model prone to requiring a new evaporator?

How about engine head problems - I know that #14 heads are weaker, and 
17 and up are better. Where do I look to see what # the head is?


The car has 250k miles on it, and no maintainence records, so what else 
can I look at to determine the general state of repair?


Thanks in advance, any and all advice is appreciated.

Max


The "14" (and lower) heads were sufficiently weak to crack if the engine 
were sufficiently overheated. Many cars with trap oxidizers did overheat 
(common when trap equipped cars were routinely city driven without long 
highway cruises to burn out the crud in the trap) and some of those did 
develop head cracks. A few of the engines without traps developed 
cracked heads as well, but many few than those with traps. The 603.960 
and 603.961 engines were essentially identical EXCEPT for the dual pump 
used for steering and self leveling in the wagons.


The number of head failures is about 20% (using MY numbers) and the rate 
of failures has dropped dramatically since the traps were replaced. So 
fewer than 1 in 5 will have heads with higher numbers (the revised heads 
with higher numbers were introduced in 1989)! Replacing the trap does 
NOT insure the head is not already cracked (whether symptoms were 
evident or not) or won't crack, but the rate has diminished significantly.


Probably rust will first show up under the right front fender 
(below/around the air intake) at the jack sockets and the front spring 
supports.


For Pittsburgh cars, the brake, self leveling and fuel lines can ALL 
rust thru after 17 years of winter salt (don't ask how I know this).


The evaporators were fairly likely to fail (more than 10% BY MY COUNT) 
 and air distribution vacuum actuators were likely to be fragile after 
15+ years. Replacing the evaporator and the actuators is a MAJOR job - 
12-15 hours for an experienced tech!


Check the operation of the rear side door windows - the wires going to 
the rear doors from the "B" pillars frequently broke.


In my opinion, the 124.193 300TD is the still finest diesel wagon ever 
made (although maybe not the greatest value as maintenance might eat you 
alive). The 124 E320 TE wagon was an even nicer car IF YOU ARE WILLING 
TO TOLERATE a gasoline engine.


Marshall
--
  Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions)
  "der Dieseling Doktor" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
'87 300TD 181Kmi,'87 190D 2.5 199Kmi, '84 190D 2.2 227Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 
159Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 234kmi

  Diesel Technical Advisor MBCA, member GWSection
http://www.dhc.net/~pmhack/mercedes/mbooth1.htm

Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon buyers guide needed

[Desert Rat]

Mac,
The engine in question was first utilized in the 86 W126 model and
only the West Coast models had the dreaded Trap Oxidizer installed.
For 1987 both the W126 and W124 had the TO installed.

The TO caused the engine to overheat and do damage to the aluminum
heads. Most TO's have been removed as MB had (has?) a campaign to
replace the TO free of charge.

Just my opinion, but I believe the 86 W126 w/o the TO may have less
frequency of cracked heads.

There have been some other upgrades as well over the years such as the
vacuum pump and the surpentine belt system.

John

On 7/3/05, Steve MacSween <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> > I think you'll have Marshall chime in soon to tell you that the head
> > faults are NOT as common as you may have read elsewhere. My own #14 head
> > has 278Kmi on it and performs flawlessly. Several others on this list
> > have similar stories.
> >
> > The jack points seem to rust first on this car. That's about it. The 124
> > TD is about the best car they made in the 80's.
> 
> Interesting. How does this compare or contrast with the engine used in the
> 300sdl models? It isn't the same, but it's a variant? (If I understand
> correctly.)
> 
> I ask because I have not bought the latest Barrett buyer's guide, and after
> reading the trashing he gave 116 SDs in it, I won't.  Well, maybe when it
> makes the remainder stores (the author's cut is removed when books go to
> remainder).
> 
> Mac
> 
> 
> ___
> For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> For new parts see www.buymbparts.com
> For repairs see www.oldworldauto.com
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
>

Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon buyers guide needed

[Rick Knoble]

Doesn't Google cache these things? Maybe I will check.
Rick Knoble
1985 300 CD

>Spud did the latest 124 buying guide revision, but unless he or
>someone else who's squirreled a copy away can send it along, accessing
>that'll have to await the resurrection of the articles at mbz.org.

Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon buyers guide needed

[Joe Knight]

If you've got rusted jack points, Jeff, I'd wager a tidy sum that a
little probing of the underbody panels with a screwdriver will reveal
a goodly number of places where the undercoating has lost its
sheetmetal backing.  Pull the plastic panels in the front wheel wells
and you'll find more.  On second thought, don't; you don't really want
to know.

Spud did the latest 124 buying guide revision, but unless he or
someone else who's squirreled a copy away can send it along, accessing
that'll have to await the resurrection of the articles at mbz.org.

joe

On 7/3/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Shipmates,
> 
> I've located an '87 300TD for sale, and the price is right, but I need to
> get smart on what the weak spots are.
> 
> According to the owner, the car has some rust but it's been fixed. The car
> is originally from MA. What are the typical places to look for rust? If
> there's some cosmetic rust, does that also means there's going to be hidden
> rust? Can the rust be stopped if caught in time?
> 
> How about A/C problems - is this model prone to requiring a new evaporator?
> 
> How about engine head problems - I know that #14 heads are weaker, and 17
> and up are better. Where do I look to see what # the head is?
> 
> The car has 250k miles on it, and no maintainence records, so what else can
> I look at to determine the general state of repair?
> 
> Thanks in advance, any and all advice is appreciated.
> 
> Max

Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon buyers guide needed

[Jeff Zedic]

AFAIK it's the exact same engine except for having a tandem pump in the 
TD to run the rear suspension system.


Jeff Zedic
Toronto
87 300TD
83 300D

Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon buyers guide needed

[Steve MacSween]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> I think you'll have Marshall chime in soon to tell you that the head
> faults are NOT as common as you may have read elsewhere. My own #14 head
> has 278Kmi on it and performs flawlessly. Several others on this list
> have similar stories.
> 
> The jack points seem to rust first on this car. That's about it. The 124
> TD is about the best car they made in the 80's.

Interesting. How does this compare or contrast with the engine used in the
300sdl models? It isn't the same, but it's a variant? (If I understand
correctly.)

I ask because I have not bought the latest Barrett buyer's guide, and after
reading the trashing he gave 116 SDs in it, I won't.  Well, maybe when it
makes the remainder stores (the author's cut is removed when books go to
remainder).

Mac

Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon buyers guide needed

[Zeitgeist]

...the BEST car ever--period. Cars don't typically rust badly out here on 
the Left coast, but I would definitely be wary of potential body cancer in 
the area behind the front fender liners. These areas can accumulate quite a 
bit of muck and road debris that traps moisture (and salt?). Other than the 
head and potential evaporator/vacuum pod replacements, these models just 
seem to fall prey to typical MB stuff (CC amps, ACC re-soldering, 
speedo-head failure, slow/in-op sunroof, etc.) If you like the price, go for 
it. 

On 7/3/05, Jeff Zedic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I think you'll have Marshall chime in soon to tell you that the head
faults are NOT as common as you may have read elsewhere. My own #14 head
has 278Kmi on it and performs flawlessly. Several others on this list
have similar stories.

The jack points seem to rust first on this car. That's about it. The 124
TD is about the best car they made in the 80's.

Casey
Biodiesel:
'87 300TD intercooler (205k) 
'84 300D (201k)
Gasser:
'89 Vanagon Wolfsburg Edition (184k)
Olympia, WA

Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon buyers guide needed

[Jeff Zedic]

I think you'll have Marshall chime in soon to tell you that the head 
faults are NOT as common as you may have read elsewhere. My own #14 head 
has 278Kmi on it and performs flawlessly. Several others on this list 
have similar stories.


The jack points seem to rust first on this car. That's about it. The 124 
TD is about the best car they made in the 80's.


Jeff Zedic
87 300TD
83 300D Needs engine

Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon buyers guide needed

[Desert Rat]

The head number is towards the front of the engine on the drivers side.

John

On 7/3/05, Steve MacSween <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> How about engine head problems - I know that #14 heads are weaker, and 17
> and up are better. Where do I look to see what # the head is?
> 
> What was the source of that info? I am interested in those engines myself,
> for their power and smoothness, but I have trouble finding anything except
> very negative comments
> 
> thanks
> 
> Mac
> Aylmer, Quebec
> '60 Mercedes 220s / '85 Mercedes 300sd
> '75 Volvo 164e / '88 Volvo 245
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> For new parts see www.buymbparts.com
> For repairs see www.oldworldauto.com
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
>

Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon buyers guide needed

[Steve MacSween]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

How about engine head problems - I know that #14 heads are weaker, and 17
and up are better. Where do I look to see what # the head is?

What was the source of that info? I am interested in those engines myself,
for their power and smoothness, but I have trouble finding anything except
very negative comments

thanks

Mac
Aylmer, Quebec
'60 Mercedes 220s / '85 Mercedes 300sd
'75 Volvo 164e / '88 Volvo 245

[MBZ] 124 wagon buyers guide needed

[meadedillon]

Shipmates,

I've located an '87 300TD for sale, and the price is right, but I need to get 
smart on what the weak spots are.

According to the owner, the car has some rust but it's been fixed. The car is 
originally from MA. What are the typical places to look for rust? If there's 
some cosmetic rust, does that also means there's going to be hidden rust? Can 
the rust be stopped if caught in time?

How about A/C problems - is this model prone to requiring a new evaporator?

How about engine head problems - I know that #14 heads are weaker, and 17 and 
up are better. Where do I look to see what # the head is?

The car has 250k miles on it, and no maintainence records, so what else can I 
look at to determine the general state of repair?

Thanks in advance, any and all advice is appreciated.

Max