Re: [MBZ] 87 td AC woes

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

No problem. I've checked out Envirosafe before but didn't realize it was 
compatible with freon, and that was good to know. 
Started to order and use Envirosafe about the same time (Jim?) described his 
use of propane/butane.
Couldn't find any butane in the stores (Walmart has a butane/propane mix now), 
so gave up on that and continued with R-134a.
Gerry

MG wrote:
> Sorry my bad when I looked it up in my links I found that I 
> should have said Envirosafe not evercool
> 
> I see that Rick already posted the links
> 
> archer75--- via Mercedes wrote:
> > Where can you buy Evercool12 Industrial? I couldn't find a source on the 
> > 'net.
> > Thanks,
> > Gerry
> > ~~
> > MG wrote:
> >> That's when you get some of the evercool12 industrial and put 
> >> that in. Works like a charm and mixes with the R-12 just fine. 
> >> You just have to have the right gauge set to or hose to attach 
> >> the can to your gauge set and away you go. One small 12 oz can 
> >> replaces a full can of R-12 which IIR is 1 lb.
> >>
> >> Craig via Mercedes wrote:
> >>> On Thu, 25 May 2017 10:22:22 -0400 archer75--- via Mercedes
> >>>  wrote:
> >>>
>  If the AC won't run, push the stem down in the low pressure port to see
>  if the system still has freon in it. If freon squirts out fairly
>  strongly, buy a can of freon at FLAPS OR Wallmart which has a little
>  gauge and and a short hose on top. Start the car and let it idle, turn
>  the AC fan on full blast and set the temp to maximum cool. Then follow
>  the instructions on the freon can.
> >>> But the W126 is most likely R-12 and the cans you buy now most likely are
> >>> R-134.
> >>>
> >>> R-134 won't work in a system that already has R-12 in it.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Craig
> > 
> > 
> > ---
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Re: [MBZ] 87 td AC woes

[MG via Mercedes]

Sorry my bad when I looked it up in my links I found that I 
should have said Envirosafe not evercool


I see that Rick already posted the links

archer75--- via Mercedes wrote:

Where can you buy Evercool12 Industrial? I couldn't find a source on the 'net.
Thanks,
Gerry
~~
MG wrote:
That's when you get some of the evercool12 industrial and put 
that in. Works like a charm and mixes with the R-12 just fine. 
You just have to have the right gauge set to or hose to attach 
the can to your gauge set and away you go. One small 12 oz can 
replaces a full can of R-12 which IIR is 1 lb.


Craig via Mercedes wrote:

On Thu, 25 May 2017 10:22:22 -0400 archer75--- via Mercedes
 wrote:


If the AC won't run, push the stem down in the low pressure port to see
if the system still has freon in it. If freon squirts out fairly
strongly, buy a can of freon at FLAPS OR Wallmart which has a little
gauge and and a short hose on top. Start the car and let it idle, turn
the AC fan on full blast and set the temp to maximum cool. Then follow
the instructions on the freon can.

But the W126 is most likely R-12 and the cans you buy now most likely are
R-134.

R-134 won't work in a system that already has R-12 in it.


Craig



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Re: [MBZ] 87 td AC woes

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

If it is leaking, that is the first priority. I cannot see throwing good
hydro/fluorocarbons after bad. Either the system is 100% functional or I
boot it off the car. 85td AC has always been prettly reliable.

Still blowing fairly cold this AM, but ambient was 58. Compressor engages
fine. Not sure it disengages, but I will have Herbert check it out while he
looks for leaks. Fan has never come on that I have heard.

On May 25, 2017 6:39 PM, "Jim Cathey via Mercedes" 
wrote:

> Butane and propane are fully miscible with Freon, and mineral oil.  It's
> fine to top off an R12 system with HC.  Decision matrix:
>
> A: If it's not leaking, I don't need to top it off.  No problem.
> B: It it were leaking and if I were not to fix it, the rest of the R12
> would leak out in time.  No (legal) problem.
> C: If it were leaking and I fixed it officially, no more R12 would be
> lost.  No problem.
> D: If it were leaking and I top it off with HC, no more R12 than in case B
> would be lost.  No problem.
>
> The Law, in this case, is an overreactive ass.
>
> -- Jim
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Re: [MBZ] 87 td AC woes

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

I think that is what happened to Freeze 12.  Got caught up in the 
regulatory anus of the ass.  Great solution to the problem the goobers 
created to benefit Dupont, so the goobers had to regulate it into oblivion.


Jim Cathey via Mercedes wrote:

The Law, in this case, is an overreactive ass.

-- Jim
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Re: [MBZ] 87 td AC woes

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

Butane and propane are fully miscible with Freon, and mineral oil.  It's
fine to top off an R12 system with HC.  Decision matrix:

A: If it's not leaking, I don't need to top it off.  No problem.
B: It it were leaking and if I were not to fix it, the rest of the R12
would leak out in time.  No (legal) problem.
C: If it were leaking and I fixed it officially, no more R12 would be
lost.  No problem.
D: If it were leaking and I top it off with HC, no more R12 than in case B
would be lost.  No problem.

The Law, in this case, is an overreactive ass.

-- Jim
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Re: [MBZ] 87 td AC woes

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

It's Envirosafe. It is marketed as a 134a replacement, because to be 
technically within the law, an R-12 system has to be converted to R-134a, and 
then converted to ES or other alternative refrigerants. 

‎https://www.es-refrigerants.com/?site=dom

http://www.es-refrigerants.com/products/w/id/645/t/industrial-r134a-replacement-refrigerant-6-ounce-can-equivalent-16-oz-134a/details.asp


Rick
  Original Message  
From: archer75--- via Mercedes‎‎

Where can you buy Evercool12 Industrial? I couldn't find a source on the 'net.
Thanks,
Gerry
~~~‎
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Re: [MBZ] 87 td AC woes

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

Where can you buy Evercool12 Industrial? I couldn't find a source on the 'net.
Thanks,
Gerry
~~
MG wrote:
> That's when you get some of the evercool12 industrial and put 
> that in. Works like a charm and mixes with the R-12 just fine. 
> You just have to have the right gauge set to or hose to attach 
> the can to your gauge set and away you go. One small 12 oz can 
> replaces a full can of R-12 which IIR is 1 lb.
> 
> Craig via Mercedes wrote:
> > On Thu, 25 May 2017 10:22:22 -0400 archer75--- via Mercedes
> >  wrote:
> > 
> >> If the AC won't run, push the stem down in the low pressure port to see
> >> if the system still has freon in it. If freon squirts out fairly
> >> strongly, buy a can of freon at FLAPS OR Wallmart which has a little
> >> gauge and and a short hose on top. Start the car and let it idle, turn
> >> the AC fan on full blast and set the temp to maximum cool. Then follow
> >> the instructions on the freon can.
> > 
> > But the W126 is most likely R-12 and the cans you buy now most likely are
> > R-134.
> > 
> > R-134 won't work in a system that already has R-12 in it.
> > 
> > 
> > Craig


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Re: [MBZ] 87 td AC woes

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

 archer wrote:> 
> > If the AC won't run, push the stem down in the low pressure port to see
> > if the system still has freon in it. If freon squirts out fairly
> > strongly, buy a can of freon at FLAPS OR Wallmart which has a little
> > gauge and and a short hose on top. Start the car and let it idle, turn
> > the AC fan on full blast and set the temp to maximum cool. Then follow
> > the instructions on the freon can.
> 
> But the W126 is most likely R-12 and the cans you buy now most likely are
> R-134.
> R-134 won't work in a system that already has R-12 in it.
> Craig
> ___
 
Will the 134a fitting on the freon can filler attachment fit an R-12 fitting on 
the car? 
I usually assume that by now most cars have been converted from R-12 to R-134a; 
that an R-134a adapter has already been attached to the cars system; and if it 
hasn't, then R-134a can't be added because there is no R-134a adapter on the 
car. 
If that is not correct, I'd appreciate knowing about it since I've always used 
R-134a since it replaced R-12.
Gerry

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Re: [MBZ] 87 td AC woes

[MG via Mercedes]

I totally agree with you. Just saying what they say on the site. 
Though they do say that the results will as you indicate be 
suboptimal.


Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

Understood.  However, I was not aware that it was intended to be used as a “top 
off” for an R12 system. I interpret that statement as saying that any remnants 
of R12 or R134a won’t react or affect the alternative refrigerant.

Here's the thing...when you mix two (or more) refrigerants you concoct a new, 
3rd blend. The proportions of this blend will vary according to how much of 
each parent refrigerant you put in. You may do a top off one time where you 
have 75% of refrigerant A and 25% refrigerant B, next time it may have 49% of A 
and 51% of B. The resulting blends will have different thermodynamic properties.

Bottom line - it's a crap shoot every time. You have no way of knowing if your 
new blend will cool, how it will affect capacity, what kind of oil micsibility 
it will have, etc., etc.

And you now have a substance inside the system that should be incinerated when 
it comes time to recover it.

Any way you cut it, it's bad refrigerant practice. Sorry if I sound harsh, but 
mixing refrigerants is the work of hacks. And frankly, you're cheating yourself 
and the environment when you don't recover and convert through proper procedure.

-D



On May 25, 2017, at 7:58 PM, MG via Mercedes  wrote:

They say on their site that it will mix with either R-12 or 134.

Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

You can mix R12 and “alternative” refrigerants?
News to me - I thought the alternative stuff was just OK to use as a complete 
replacement?  I wasn’t aware you could mix it with Freon.
-D



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Re: [MBZ] 87 td AC woes

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Freeze 12 was fully compatible with R12.  From what I can tell 
evercool12 is a "replacement" for Freeze 12.




MG via Mercedes 
May 25, 2017 at 6:58 PM
They say on their site that it will mix with either R-12 or 134.


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Re: [MBZ] 87 td AC woes

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Understood.  However, I was not aware that it was intended to be used as a “top 
off” for an R12 system. I interpret that statement as saying that any remnants 
of R12 or R134a won’t react or affect the alternative refrigerant.

Here's the thing...when you mix two (or more) refrigerants you concoct a new, 
3rd blend. The proportions of this blend will vary according to how much of 
each parent refrigerant you put in. You may do a top off one time where you 
have 75% of refrigerant A and 25% refrigerant B, next time it may have 49% of A 
and 51% of B. The resulting blends will have different thermodynamic properties.

Bottom line - it's a crap shoot every time. You have no way of knowing if your 
new blend will cool, how it will affect capacity, what kind of oil micsibility 
it will have, etc., etc.

And you now have a substance inside the system that should be incinerated when 
it comes time to recover it.

Any way you cut it, it's bad refrigerant practice. Sorry if I sound harsh, but 
mixing refrigerants is the work of hacks. And frankly, you're cheating yourself 
and the environment when you don't recover and convert through proper procedure.

-D


> On May 25, 2017, at 7:58 PM, MG via Mercedes  wrote:
> 
> They say on their site that it will mix with either R-12 or 134.
> 
> Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
>> You can mix R12 and “alternative” refrigerants?
>> News to me - I thought the alternative stuff was just OK to use as a 
>> complete replacement?  I wasn’t aware you could mix it with Freon.
>> -D


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Re: [MBZ] 87 td AC woes

[MG via Mercedes]

They say on their site that it will mix with either R-12 or 134.

Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

You can mix R12 and “alternative” refrigerants?

News to me - I thought the alternative stuff was just OK to use as a complete 
replacement?  I wasn’t aware you could mix it with Freon.

-D


On May 25, 2017, at 4:50 PM, MG via Mercedes  wrote:

That's when you get some of the evercool12 industrial and put that in. Works 
like a charm and mixes with the R-12 just fine. You just have to have the right 
gauge set to or hose to attach the can to your gauge set and away you go. One 
small 12 oz can replaces a full can of R-12 which IIR is 1 lb.

Craig via Mercedes wrote:

On Thu, 25 May 2017 10:22:22 -0400 archer75--- via Mercedes
 wrote:

If the AC won't run, push the stem down in the low pressure port to see
if the system still has freon in it. If freon squirts out fairly
strongly, buy a can of freon at FLAPS OR Wallmart which has a little
gauge and and a short hose on top. Start the car and let it idle, turn
the AC fan on full blast and set the temp to maximum cool. Then follow
the instructions on the freon can.

But the W126 is most likely R-12 and the cans you buy now most likely are
R-134.
R-134 won't work in a system that already has R-12 in it.
Craig
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Re: [MBZ] 87 td AC woes

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Me neither.  I just thought the propane/butane stuff was a replacement, not 
something that was directly compatible with R12 in an existing system.  That 
uis, it plays nice with compressor oils and other parts of an R12 system, but 
not the refrigerant itself.

-D

> On May 25, 2017, at 5:00 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Does not sound like a good idea to me.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On May 25, 2017, at 3:53 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> You can mix R12 and “alternative” refrigerants?
>> 
>> News to me - I thought the alternative stuff was just OK to use as a 
>> complete replacement?  I wasn’t aware you could mix it with Freon.
>> 
>> -D
>> 
>>> On May 25, 2017, at 4:50 PM, MG via Mercedes  wrote:
>>> 
>>> That's when you get some of the evercool12 industrial and put that in. 
>>> Works like a charm and mixes with the R-12 just fine. You just have to have 
>>> the right gauge set to or hose to attach the can to your gauge set and away 
>>> you go. One small 12 oz can replaces a full can of R-12 which IIR is 1 lb.


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Re: [MBZ] 87 td AC woes

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

Does not sound like a good idea to me.

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 25, 2017, at 3:53 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> You can mix R12 and “alternative” refrigerants?
> 
> News to me - I thought the alternative stuff was just OK to use as a complete 
> replacement?  I wasn’t aware you could mix it with Freon.
> 
> -D
> 
>> On May 25, 2017, at 4:50 PM, MG via Mercedes  wrote:
>> 
>> That's when you get some of the evercool12 industrial and put that in. Works 
>> like a charm and mixes with the R-12 just fine. You just have to have the 
>> right gauge set to or hose to attach the can to your gauge set and away you 
>> go. One small 12 oz can replaces a full can of R-12 which IIR is 1 lb.
>> 
>> Craig via Mercedes wrote:
>>> On Thu, 25 May 2017 10:22:22 -0400 archer75--- via Mercedes
>>>  wrote:
 If the AC won't run, push the stem down in the low pressure port to see
 if the system still has freon in it. If freon squirts out fairly
 strongly, buy a can of freon at FLAPS OR Wallmart which has a little
 gauge and and a short hose on top. Start the car and let it idle, turn
 the AC fan on full blast and set the temp to maximum cool. Then follow
 the instructions on the freon can.
>>> But the W126 is most likely R-12 and the cans you buy now most likely are
>>> R-134.
>>> R-134 won't work in a system that already has R-12 in it.
>>> Craig
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] 87 td AC woes

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

You can mix R12 and “alternative” refrigerants?

News to me - I thought the alternative stuff was just OK to use as a complete 
replacement?  I wasn’t aware you could mix it with Freon.

-D

> On May 25, 2017, at 4:50 PM, MG via Mercedes  wrote:
> 
> That's when you get some of the evercool12 industrial and put that in. Works 
> like a charm and mixes with the R-12 just fine. You just have to have the 
> right gauge set to or hose to attach the can to your gauge set and away you 
> go. One small 12 oz can replaces a full can of R-12 which IIR is 1 lb.
> 
> Craig via Mercedes wrote:
>> On Thu, 25 May 2017 10:22:22 -0400 archer75--- via Mercedes
>>  wrote:
>>> If the AC won't run, push the stem down in the low pressure port to see
>>> if the system still has freon in it. If freon squirts out fairly
>>> strongly, buy a can of freon at FLAPS OR Wallmart which has a little
>>> gauge and and a short hose on top. Start the car and let it idle, turn
>>> the AC fan on full blast and set the temp to maximum cool. Then follow
>>> the instructions on the freon can.
>> But the W126 is most likely R-12 and the cans you buy now most likely are
>> R-134.
>> R-134 won't work in a system that already has R-12 in it.
>> Craig
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Re: [MBZ] 87 td AC woes

[MG via Mercedes]

That's when you get some of the evercool12 industrial and put 
that in. Works like a charm and mixes with the R-12 just fine. 
You just have to have the right gauge set to or hose to attach 
the can to your gauge set and away you go. One small 12 oz can 
replaces a full can of R-12 which IIR is 1 lb.


Craig via Mercedes wrote:

On Thu, 25 May 2017 10:22:22 -0400 archer75--- via Mercedes
 wrote:


If the AC won't run, push the stem down in the low pressure port to see
if the system still has freon in it. If freon squirts out fairly
strongly, buy a can of freon at FLAPS OR Wallmart which has a little
gauge and and a short hose on top. Start the car and let it idle, turn
the AC fan on full blast and set the temp to maximum cool. Then follow
the instructions on the freon can.


But the W126 is most likely R-12 and the cans you buy now most likely are
R-134.

R-134 won't work in a system that already has R-12 in it.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] 87 td AC woes

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Thu, 25 May 2017 10:22:22 -0400 archer75--- via Mercedes
 wrote:

> If the AC won't run, push the stem down in the low pressure port to see
> if the system still has freon in it. If freon squirts out fairly
> strongly, buy a can of freon at FLAPS OR Wallmart which has a little
> gauge and and a short hose on top. Start the car and let it idle, turn
> the AC fan on full blast and set the temp to maximum cool. Then follow
> the instructions on the freon can.

But the W126 is most likely R-12 and the cans you buy now most likely are
R-134.

R-134 won't work in a system that already has R-12 in it.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] 87 td AC woes

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

If the AC won't run, push the stem down in the low pressure port to see if the 
system still has freon in it. If freon squirts out fairly strongly, buy a can 
of freon at FLAPS OR Wallmart which has a little gauge and and a short hose on 
top.
Start the car and let it idle, turn the AC fan on full blast and set the temp 
to maximum cool.
Then follow the instructions on the freon can. 
Setting some kind of household fan so it will blow through the radiator and AC 
condenser will speed up the freon charging rate. If the compressor comes on by 
the time the freon has gone into the system, and you're getting cold air in the 
cab, the AC "may not" have problems other than a gradual loss of freon over 
time. If the compressor doesn't come on, the job can rapidly get complicated.
Gerry
P.S. If the AC will come on the next day, you probably don't have any serious 
leaks, and after the car is roadworthy, you can take it by a shop and get the 
freon topped off.
~
> Wow!
> I was contemplating doing a recharge on the W126s after the paint dries.  
> This sounds more complex than trying to figure out how to shoot some paint.
> clay
> 
> > On May 23, 2017, at 11:44 PM, archer75--- via Mercedes 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > Karl Wittnebel wrote:
> >> Pressure goes super high, then the compressor fails. It will cool for about
> >> 30-40 minutes per compressor. Has new evaporator, new expansion valve new
> >> drier, now on compressor #3 (or about to be). Control unit is new. At least
> >> one new pressure hose. All the vac pods are new, as is the dash. Works
> >> great for awhile, then gradually gets warmer over an hour or so, and that's
> >> it.
> >> Any ideas on how to troubleshoot this further? Tired of throwing
> >> compressors at it. Nippodenso units from rock auto, same as original. Of
> >> course the motor is a 606 now.
> >> Thanks
> > ~
> > Has the AC auxiliary fan been coming on?
> > 
> > Did you disconnect all the lines and wash, then blow, them out using AC 
> > solvent from NAPA or elsewhere in the opposite direction from their 
> > direction of flow?
> > 
> > Did you replace the main freon filter/reservoir?
> > 
> > Do you have a set of AC gauges (about $60 at HF)?. If so, what were the 
> > readings when the AC was not working properly? (Carefully learn how the 
> > gauges work so you don't accidentally send high pressure into low pressure 
> > cans of freon and/or the low pressure gauges, which could be very injurious 
> > or fatal).
> > 
> > Which lubricant did you use when you replaced compressors, etc? Did you add 
> > the specified amount? 
> > 
> > Did you add the freon with the can upright or inverted?
> > 
> > If you added the freon using the typical low pressure gauge that comes with 
> > some cans of freon, what was the pressure reading when you finished? 
> > 
> > Did you have a household or shop fan blowing through the radiator and 
> > condenser when you added the freon? Did you have the AC set on max cool and 
> > max fan speed?
> > 
> > What has the temperature been where you live?
> > 
> > There is supposed to an (add-on?) filter that can be installed in the 
> > return line just before the compressor, but I've never heard any discussion 
> > about it on this list, or have seen it listed anywhere. Also, I have no 
> > idea where it would be installed without cutting the return line. This is 
> > supposed to keep the shedded debris from old freon lines from getting in to 
> > the AC pump and other parts.
> > 
> > Which car is this? All my experience has been with an '83 300D and '83 240D.
> > 
> > Most FLAPS have a book on auto AC repair which should give you the correct 
> > amounts of freon and oil to add. The different types of oils should not be 
> > mixed
> > (see the book for a discussion of that.)
> > 
> > It's 2 am here in Florida. Later this AM someone with more knowledge than I 
> > should be able to help you.
> > Good luck,
> > Gerry 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ---
> > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> > http://www.avg.com
> > 
> > 
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
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Re: [MBZ] 87 td AC woes

[clay via Mercedes]

Wow!

I was contemplating doing a recharge on the W126s after the paint dries.  This 
sounds more complex than trying to figure out how to shoot some paint.

clay

> On May 23, 2017, at 11:44 PM, archer75--- via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Karl Wittnebel wrote:
>> Pressure goes super high, then the compressor fails. It will cool for about
>> 30-40 minutes per compressor. Has new evaporator, new expansion valve new
>> drier, now on compressor #3 (or about to be). Control unit is new. At least
>> one new pressure hose. All the vac pods are new, as is the dash. Works
>> great for awhile, then gradually gets warmer over an hour or so, and that's
>> it.
>> Any ideas on how to troubleshoot this further? Tired of throwing
>> compressors at it. Nippodenso units from rock auto, same as original. Of
>> course the motor is a 606 now.
>> Thanks
> ~
> Has the AC auxiliary fan been coming on?
> 
> Did you disconnect all the lines and wash, then blow, them out using AC 
> solvent from NAPA or elsewhere in the opposite direction from their direction 
> of flow?
> 
> Did you replace the main freon filter/reservoir?
> 
> Do you have a set of AC gauges (about $60 at HF)?. If so, what were the 
> readings when the AC was not working properly? (Carefully learn how the 
> gauges work so you don't accidentally send high pressure into low pressure 
> cans of freon and/or the low pressure gauges, which could be very injurious 
> or fatal).
> 
> Which lubricant did you use when you replaced compressors, etc? Did you add 
> the specified amount? 
> 
> Did you add the freon with the can upright or inverted?
> 
> If you added the freon using the typical low pressure gauge that comes with 
> some cans of freon, what was the pressure reading when you finished? 
> 
> Did you have a household or shop fan blowing through the radiator and 
> condenser when you added the freon? Did you have the AC set on max cool and 
> max fan speed?
> 
> What has the temperature been where you live?
> 
> There is supposed to an (add-on?) filter that can be installed in the return 
> line just before the compressor, but I've never heard any discussion about it 
> on this list, or have seen it listed anywhere. Also, I have no idea where it 
> would be installed without cutting the return line. This is supposed to keep 
> the shedded debris from old freon lines from getting in to the AC pump and 
> other parts.
> 
> Which car is this? All my experience has been with an '83 300D and '83 240D.
> 
> Most FLAPS have a book on auto AC repair which should give you the correct 
> amounts of freon and oil to add. The different types of oils should not be 
> mixed
> (see the book for a discussion of that.)
> 
> It's 2 am here in Florida. Later this AM someone with more knowledge than I 
> should be able to help you.
> Good luck,
> Gerry 
> 
> 
> 
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> http://www.avg.com
> 
> 
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] 87 td AC woes

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

Good call! I guess I assumed that he had had it vacuumed and filled. 
At HF yesterday I noticed their vacuum pumps were about $100 and $160, and 
their gauge sets were about $60.
IMO he should fix the auxiliary AC fan sometime during the repair and put a 
shroud on the main fan if he can find one because he's going to have problems 
in heavy stop and go traffic if he doesn't, and those problems might include 
engine cooling as well. (That's assuming his '87 acts the same as my '83).
Gerry


MG wrote:
> Only one thing that Gerry left out.
> 
> Did you connect a vacuum pump after you put the NEW receiver 
> drier in and a new expansion valve. Each time the compressor 
> quits all the cleaning has to be done and a solid vacuum pulled.
> Living in Florida I run the pump for at least an hour just 
> because I have the time and it helps boil any moisture out of the 
> system. Then close the gauges off and see if the vacuum stays the 
> same after an additional hour. If so then you put the freon in.
> 
> If you didn't do the vacuum then there is air and moisture in 
> there and the new receiver drier is probably dead with moisture 
> right from the beginning.
> 
> archer75--- via Mercedes wrote:
> > Karl Wittnebel wrote:
> >> Pressure goes super high, then the compressor fails. It will cool for about
> >> 30-40 minutes per compressor. Has new evaporator, new expansion valve new
> >> drier, now on compressor #3 (or about to be). Control unit is new. At least
> >> one new pressure hose. All the vac pods are new, as is the dash. Works
> >> great for awhile, then gradually gets warmer over an hour or so, and that's
> >> it.
> >> Any ideas on how to troubleshoot this further? Tired of throwing
> >> compressors at it. Nippodenso units from rock auto, same as original. Of
> >> course the motor is a 606 now.
> >> Thanks
> > ~
> > Has the AC auxiliary fan been coming on?
> > 
> > Did you disconnect all the lines and wash, then blow, them out using AC 
> > solvent from NAPA or elsewhere in the opposite direction from their 
> > direction of flow?
> > 
> > Did you replace the main freon filter/reservoir?
> > 
> > Do you have a set of AC gauges (about $60 at HF)?. If so, what were the 
> > readings when the AC was not working properly? (Carefully learn how the 
> > gauges work so you don't accidentally send high pressure into low pressure 
> > cans of freon and/or the low pressure gauges, which could be very injurious 
> > or fatal).
> > 
> > Which lubricant did you use when you replaced compressors, etc? Did you add 
> > the specified amount? 
> > 
> > Did you add the freon with the can upright or inverted?
> > 
> > If you added the freon using the typical low pressure gauge that comes with 
> > some cans of freon, what was the pressure reading when you finished? 
> > 
> > Did you have a household or shop fan blowing through the radiator and 
> > condenser when you added the freon? Did you have the AC set on max cool and 
> > max fan speed?
> > 
> > What has the temperature been where you live?
> > 
> > There is supposed to an (add-on?) filter that can be installed in the 
> > return line just before the compressor, but I've never heard any discussion 
> > about it on this list, or have seen it listed anywhere. Also, I have no 
> > idea where it would be installed without cutting the return line. This is 
> > supposed to keep the shedded debris from old freon lines from getting in to 
> > the AC pump and other parts.
> > 
> > Which car is this? All my experience has been with an '83 300D and '83 240D.
> > 
> > Most FLAPS have a book on auto AC repair which should give you the correct 
> > amounts of freon and oil to add. The different types of oils should not be 
> > mixed
> > (see the book for a discussion of that.)
> > 
> > It's 2 am here in Florida. Later this AM someone with more knowledge than I 
> > should be able to help you.
> > Good luck,
> > Gerry 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ---
> > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> > http://www.avg.com
> > 
> > 
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > 
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > 
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > 
> > 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] 87 td AC woes

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

Bubbles = working compressor.

The FSM section 83 has about 21 steps for complete diagnosis of the HVAC
system from end to end.

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 1:24 PM, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Ok so it has bubbles in the window. Ambient was 68 and it put out very cold
> air on the way to work. Compressor may not be shot? No accessory fan at
> all, though would not expect it with this weather.
>
> Might as well order the gauges.
>
> On May 24, 2017 10:11 AM, "Meade Dillon via Mercedes" <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> wrote:
>
> > No orifice tube, this has an expansion valve.
> >
> > -
> > Max
> > Charleston SC
> >
> > On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 11:56 AM, Donald Snook via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Do these have an orifice tube?  Could be that instead.
> > >
> > >
> > ___
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> >
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> >
> >
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>
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Re: [MBZ] 87 td AC woes

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

Ok so it has bubbles in the window. Ambient was 68 and it put out very cold
air on the way to work. Compressor may not be shot? No accessory fan at
all, though would not expect it with this weather.

Might as well order the gauges.

On May 24, 2017 10:11 AM, "Meade Dillon via Mercedes" 
wrote:

> No orifice tube, this has an expansion valve.
>
> -
> Max
> Charleston SC
>
> On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 11:56 AM, Donald Snook via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > Do these have an orifice tube?  Could be that instead.
> >
> >
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Re: [MBZ] 87 td AC woes

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

No orifice tube, this has an expansion valve.

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 11:56 AM, Donald Snook via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Do these have an orifice tube?  Could be that instead.
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] 87 td AC woes

[Donald Snook via Mercedes]

Do these have an orifice tube?  Could be that instead. 

Don Snook 

-Original Message-
From: Peter Frederick [mailto:psf...@earthlink.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2017 7:29 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 87 td AC woes

Replace the condenser, it's plugged.

Peter



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Re: [MBZ] 87 td AC woes

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

I forgot to say the last work was done by my mechanic, who does nothing but
old mercedes. I assume he flushed it all out and rechecked it
appropriately. But I am getting tired of paying people for it to not work.

 Of course it is a swap to 606 and some of the wrong pressure sensors had
been used, and the control unit from a sedan, so it was not straightforward
to sort out. But he thought he had all parts back to stock and working.

On May 23, 2017 11:44 PM, "archer75--- via Mercedes" 
wrote:

>
> Karl Wittnebel wrote:
> > Pressure goes super high, then the compressor fails. It will cool for
> about
> > 30-40 minutes per compressor. Has new evaporator, new expansion valve new
> > drier, now on compressor #3 (or about to be). Control unit is new. At
> least
> > one new pressure hose. All the vac pods are new, as is the dash. Works
> > great for awhile, then gradually gets warmer over an hour or so, and
> that's
> > it.
> > Any ideas on how to troubleshoot this further? Tired of throwing
> > compressors at it. Nippodenso units from rock auto, same as original. Of
> > course the motor is a 606 now.
> > Thanks
> ~
> Has the AC auxiliary fan been coming on?
>
> Did you disconnect all the lines and wash, then blow, them out using AC
> solvent from NAPA or elsewhere in the opposite direction from their
> direction of flow?
>
> Did you replace the main freon filter/reservoir?
>
> Do you have a set of AC gauges (about $60 at HF)?. If so, what were the
> readings when the AC was not working properly? (Carefully learn how the
> gauges work so you don't accidentally send high pressure into low pressure
> cans of freon and/or the low pressure gauges, which could be very injurious
> or fatal).
>
> Which lubricant did you use when you replaced compressors, etc? Did you
> add the specified amount?
>
> Did you add the freon with the can upright or inverted?
>
> If you added the freon using the typical low pressure gauge that comes
> with some cans of freon, what was the pressure reading when you finished?
>
> Did you have a household or shop fan blowing through the radiator and
> condenser when you added the freon? Did you have the AC set on max cool and
> max fan speed?
>
> What has the temperature been where you live?
>
> There is supposed to an (add-on?) filter that can be installed in the
> return line just before the compressor, but I've never heard any discussion
> about it on this list, or have seen it listed anywhere. Also, I have no
> idea where it would be installed without cutting the return line. This is
> supposed to keep the shedded debris from old freon lines from getting in to
> the AC pump and other parts.
>
> Which car is this? All my experience has been with an '83 300D and '83
> 240D.
>
> Most FLAPS have a book on auto AC repair which should give you the correct
> amounts of freon and oil to add. The different types of oils should not be
> mixed
> (see the book for a discussion of that.)
>
> It's 2 am here in Florida. Later this AM someone with more knowledge than
> I should be able to help you.
> Good luck,
> Gerry
>
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> http://www.avg.com
>
>
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> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
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Re: [MBZ] 87 td AC woes

[MG via Mercedes]

Only one thing that Gerry left out.

Did you connect a vacuum pump after you put the NEW receiver 
drier in and a new expansion valve. Each time the compressor 
quits all the cleaning has to be done and a solid vacuum pulled.
Living in Florida I run the pump for at least an hour just 
because I have the time and it helps boil any moisture out of the 
system. Then close the gauges off and see if the vacuum stays the 
same after an additional hour. If so then you put the freon in.


If you didn't do the vacuum then there is air and moisture in 
there and the new receiver drier is probably dead with moisture 
right from the beginning.


archer75--- via Mercedes wrote:

Karl Wittnebel wrote:

Pressure goes super high, then the compressor fails. It will cool for about
30-40 minutes per compressor. Has new evaporator, new expansion valve new
drier, now on compressor #3 (or about to be). Control unit is new. At least
one new pressure hose. All the vac pods are new, as is the dash. Works
great for awhile, then gradually gets warmer over an hour or so, and that's
it.
Any ideas on how to troubleshoot this further? Tired of throwing
compressors at it. Nippodenso units from rock auto, same as original. Of
course the motor is a 606 now.
Thanks

~
Has the AC auxiliary fan been coming on?

Did you disconnect all the lines and wash, then blow, them out using AC solvent 
from NAPA or elsewhere in the opposite direction from their direction of flow?

Did you replace the main freon filter/reservoir?

Do you have a set of AC gauges (about $60 at HF)?. If so, what were the 
readings when the AC was not working properly? (Carefully learn how the gauges 
work so you don't accidentally send high pressure into low pressure cans of 
freon and/or the low pressure gauges, which could be very injurious or fatal).

Which lubricant did you use when you replaced compressors, etc? Did you add the specified amount? 


Did you add the freon with the can upright or inverted?

If you added the freon using the typical low pressure gauge that comes with some cans of freon, what was the pressure reading when you finished? 


Did you have a household or shop fan blowing through the radiator and condenser 
when you added the freon? Did you have the AC set on max cool and max fan speed?

What has the temperature been where you live?

There is supposed to an (add-on?) filter that can be installed in the return 
line just before the compressor, but I've never heard any discussion about it 
on this list, or have seen it listed anywhere. Also, I have no idea where it 
would be installed without cutting the return line. This is supposed to keep 
the shedded debris from old freon lines from getting in to the AC pump and 
other parts.

Which car is this? All my experience has been with an '83 300D and '83 240D.

Most FLAPS have a book on auto AC repair which should give you the correct 
amounts of freon and oil to add. The different types of oils should not be mixed
(see the book for a discussion of that.)

It's 2 am here in Florida. Later this AM someone with more knowledge than I 
should be able to help you.
Good luck,
Gerry 




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Re: [MBZ] 87 td AC woes

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

Thanks for all the ideas.

There is a thread on pelican about it also. Air in the system, low airflow
thru condensor were two ideas.

I don't know whether fans were on. I doubt it actually, because it is loud,
so Iwould hAve heard it. I will try it again and look. I only used the ac
once.

My main fan has no shroud, so maybe I need to go electric SPAL there also.

Condenser plugged is possible. But why would it work great for awhile then
quit? I would think it would not cool well at all.

The tank is old. Pressure switches are new. Expansion valve and drier and
evaporator and pressure hose are new. Compressors have been rebuilds. Last
one from rock auto.

Ambient was only in the 80s.

Will follow up.



On May 23, 2017 11:44 PM, "archer75--- via Mercedes" 
wrote:

>
> Karl Wittnebel wrote:
> > Pressure goes super high, then the compressor fails. It will cool for
> about
> > 30-40 minutes per compressor. Has new evaporator, new expansion valve new
> > drier, now on compressor #3 (or about to be). Control unit is new. At
> least
> > one new pressure hose. All the vac pods are new, as is the dash. Works
> > great for awhile, then gradually gets warmer over an hour or so, and
> that's
> > it.
> > Any ideas on how to troubleshoot this further? Tired of throwing
> > compressors at it. Nippodenso units from rock auto, same as original. Of
> > course the motor is a 606 now.
> > Thanks
> ~
> Has the AC auxiliary fan been coming on?
>
> Did you disconnect all the lines and wash, then blow, them out using AC
> solvent from NAPA or elsewhere in the opposite direction from their
> direction of flow?
>
> Did you replace the main freon filter/reservoir?
>
> Do you have a set of AC gauges (about $60 at HF)?. If so, what were the
> readings when the AC was not working properly? (Carefully learn how the
> gauges work so you don't accidentally send high pressure into low pressure
> cans of freon and/or the low pressure gauges, which could be very injurious
> or fatal).
>
> Which lubricant did you use when you replaced compressors, etc? Did you
> add the specified amount?
>
> Did you add the freon with the can upright or inverted?
>
> If you added the freon using the typical low pressure gauge that comes
> with some cans of freon, what was the pressure reading when you finished?
>
> Did you have a household or shop fan blowing through the radiator and
> condenser when you added the freon? Did you have the AC set on max cool and
> max fan speed?
>
> What has the temperature been where you live?
>
> There is supposed to an (add-on?) filter that can be installed in the
> return line just before the compressor, but I've never heard any discussion
> about it on this list, or have seen it listed anywhere. Also, I have no
> idea where it would be installed without cutting the return line. This is
> supposed to keep the shedded debris from old freon lines from getting in to
> the AC pump and other parts.
>
> Which car is this? All my experience has been with an '83 300D and '83
> 240D.
>
> Most FLAPS have a book on auto AC repair which should give you the correct
> amounts of freon and oil to add. The different types of oils should not be
> mixed
> (see the book for a discussion of that.)
>
> It's 2 am here in Florida. Later this AM someone with more knowledge than
> I should be able to help you.
> Good luck,
> Gerry
>
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] 87 td AC woes

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

Karl Wittnebel wrote:
> Pressure goes super high, then the compressor fails. It will cool for about
> 30-40 minutes per compressor. Has new evaporator, new expansion valve new
> drier, now on compressor #3 (or about to be). Control unit is new. At least
> one new pressure hose. All the vac pods are new, as is the dash. Works
> great for awhile, then gradually gets warmer over an hour or so, and that's
> it.
> Any ideas on how to troubleshoot this further? Tired of throwing
> compressors at it. Nippodenso units from rock auto, same as original. Of
> course the motor is a 606 now.
> Thanks
~
Has the AC auxiliary fan been coming on?

Did you disconnect all the lines and wash, then blow, them out using AC solvent 
from NAPA or elsewhere in the opposite direction from their direction of flow?

Did you replace the main freon filter/reservoir?

Do you have a set of AC gauges (about $60 at HF)?. If so, what were the 
readings when the AC was not working properly? (Carefully learn how the gauges 
work so you don't accidentally send high pressure into low pressure cans of 
freon and/or the low pressure gauges, which could be very injurious or fatal).

Which lubricant did you use when you replaced compressors, etc? Did you add the 
specified amount? 

Did you add the freon with the can upright or inverted?

If you added the freon using the typical low pressure gauge that comes with 
some cans of freon, what was the pressure reading when you finished? 

Did you have a household or shop fan blowing through the radiator and condenser 
when you added the freon? Did you have the AC set on max cool and max fan speed?

What has the temperature been where you live?

There is supposed to an (add-on?) filter that can be installed in the return 
line just before the compressor, but I've never heard any discussion about it 
on this list, or have seen it listed anywhere. Also, I have no idea where it 
would be installed without cutting the return line. This is supposed to keep 
the shedded debris from old freon lines from getting in to the AC pump and 
other parts.

Which car is this? All my experience has been with an '83 300D and '83 240D.

Most FLAPS have a book on auto AC repair which should give you the correct 
amounts of freon and oil to add. The different types of oils should not be mixed
(see the book for a discussion of that.)

It's 2 am here in Florida. Later this AM someone with more knowledge than I 
should be able to help you.
Good luck,
Gerry 



---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com


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Re: [MBZ] 87 td AC woes

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

Could be. Is the aux fan running? If not pressure will get too high 

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 23, 2017, at 9:41 PM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Moisture in system freezing up in expansion valve?
> 
> -- Jim
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Re: [MBZ] 87 td AC woes

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

Moisture in system freezing up in expansion valve?

-- Jim
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Re: [MBZ] 87 td AC woes

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

Replace the condenser, it's plugged.

Peter

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Re: [MBZ] 87 td AC woes

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

Randy,

There is a fuse that should blow if the compressor stays on too long.  That
is what would happen with my '87 wagon when the KLIMA relay died and I
needed AC for a long highway trip, so I rigged continuous power to the
compressor.  I think the fuse would only hold for about ten minutes.  I had
to wire in a switch, and cycle the compressor to keep the fuse from
blowing.  IIRC it was fuse #7.

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 5:44 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> How does it manage to work for a while if it is blocked? Or is it just
> partly blocked? Does that cause the pressure to rise too high?
> Is there no pressure sensor to tell the unit to shut down before it
> damages itself?
>
> RB
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] 87 td AC woes

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

S'pozedta be a low pressure switch and a high pressure switch at the dryer.


Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
May 23, 2017 at 4:44 PM
How does it manage to work for a while if it is blocked? Or is it just 
partly blocked? Does that cause the pressure to rise too high?
Is there no pressure sensor to tell the unit to shut down before it 
damages itself?


RB



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Re: [MBZ] 87 td AC woes

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

Could be a blockage, but rebuilt compressors have a bad reputation.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On May 23, 2017 5:34:42 PM EDT, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes 
 wrote:
>Pressure goes super high, then the compressor fails. It will cool for
>about
>30-40 minutes per compressor. Has new evaporator, new expansion valve
>new
>drier, now on compressor #3 (or about to be). Control unit is new. At
>least
>one new pressure hose. All the vac pods are new, as is the dash. Works
>great for awhile, then gradually gets warmer over an hour or so, and
>that's
>it.
>
>Any ideas on how to troubleshoot this further? Tired of throwing
>compressors at it. Nippodenso units from rock auto, same as original.
>Of
>course the motor is a 606 now.
>
>Thanks
>___
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>
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>
>To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] 87 td AC woes

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

How does it manage to work for a while if it is blocked? Or is it just 
partly blocked? Does that cause the pressure to rise too high?
Is there no pressure sensor to tell the unit to shut down before it 
damages itself?


RB


On 23/05/2017 4:41 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes wrote:

You have a blockage

Sent from my iPhone


On May 23, 2017, at 4:34 PM, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes 
 wrote:

Pressure goes super high, then the compressor fails. It will cool for about
30-40 minutes per compressor. Has new evaporator, new expansion valve new
drier, now on compressor #3 (or about to be). Control unit is new. At least
one new pressure hose. All the vac pods are new, as is the dash. Works
great for awhile, then gradually gets warmer over an hour or so, and that's
it.

Any ideas on how to troubleshoot this further? Tired of throwing
compressors at it. Nippodenso units from rock auto, same as original. Of
course the motor is a 606 now.

Thanks
___



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Re: [MBZ] 87 td AC woes

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

You have a blockage 

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 23, 2017, at 4:34 PM, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Pressure goes super high, then the compressor fails. It will cool for about
> 30-40 minutes per compressor. Has new evaporator, new expansion valve new
> drier, now on compressor #3 (or about to be). Control unit is new. At least
> one new pressure hose. All the vac pods are new, as is the dash. Works
> great for awhile, then gradually gets warmer over an hour or so, and that's
> it.
> 
> Any ideas on how to troubleshoot this further? Tired of throwing
> compressors at it. Nippodenso units from rock auto, same as original. Of
> course the motor is a 606 now.
> 
> Thanks
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
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Re: [MBZ] 87 td AC woes

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

On 23/05/2017 4:34 PM, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes wrote:

Pressure goes super high, then the compressor fails. It will cool for about
30-40 minutes per compressor. Has new evaporator, new expansion valve new
drier, now on compressor #3 (or about to be). Control unit is new. At least
one new pressure hose. All the vac pods are new, as is the dash. Works
great for awhile, then gradually gets warmer over an hour or so, and that's
it.

Any ideas on how to troubleshoot this further? Tired of throwing
compressors at it. Nippodenso units from rock auto, same as original. Of
course the motor is a 606 now.

Thanks
___


No expert on AC but will offer my 2 cents anyway.

Some sort of sensor or control is bad and thus letting the compressor 
overload.


Similar but different story. My son had a Nissan Maxima. The starter 
went and we put a new one on. It lasted a day or two and went bad too.


Store gave us a replacement. Same thing happened twice more. I asked the 
store to get us a different brand as I suspected a bad batch.


Store got me a different brand and in the box was a printed note saying 
that we should check and probably replace a relay that tends to go bad 
and cause the starter to not disengage. When that happens, the engine 
spins the starter motor up to the point where it disintegrates.


Changed the relay and no more issues.

Somehow, your compressor story sounds similar.

RB


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[MBZ] 87 td AC woes

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

Pressure goes super high, then the compressor fails. It will cool for about
30-40 minutes per compressor. Has new evaporator, new expansion valve new
drier, now on compressor #3 (or about to be). Control unit is new. At least
one new pressure hose. All the vac pods are new, as is the dash. Works
great for awhile, then gradually gets warmer over an hour or so, and that's
it.

Any ideas on how to troubleshoot this further? Tired of throwing
compressors at it. Nippodenso units from rock auto, same as original. Of
course the motor is a 606 now.

Thanks
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