Re: [MBZ] Factoid

[Rick Knoble]

On Sep 14, 2013, at 4:17 PM, "clay"  wrote:

> There was a big problem with fake parts in the aviation business.  I am going 
> out on a limb and saying this may be growing.


No comments from Grant...?

Rick
Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [MBZ] Factoid

[Jaime Kopchinski]

My comment is that this doesn't belong on a Mercedes list!


On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 6:32 PM, Gerry Archer wrote:

> The Obama administration on Tuesday eased longstanding restraints on
> humanitarian and good-will activities between Iran and the United States,
> including athletic exchanges. It was at least the second American
> government relaxation of Iranian sanctions this year and came as Iran’s new
> president, Hassan Rouhani, has signaled his desire to improve relations.
>
> Mr. Rouhani, who was elected in June and took office last month, has said
> he wanted to reduce Iran’s isolation and to find a diplomatic solution to
> the nuclear dispute. He has not specified whether Iran was prepared to make
> any concessions, but in an interview on Iranian state television on Tuesday
> he said that time for resolving the dispute was limited and that “I am
> hopeful we can, step by step, solve this problem.”
>
> Comment?
>
>
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Factoid

[clay]

There was a big problem with fake parts in the aviation business.  I am going 
out on a limb and saying this may be growing.  We will see a few airframes fall 
out of the sky in a few years when these parts make it into the supply chain

clay


On Sep 13, 2013, at 3:22 AM, Larry T wrote:

>it's becoming harder and harder to find stuff _/not /_made in China!   
> With automotive parts I worry about counterfeit parts that make it into the 
> system.  Back in the 80s there were a lot of fasteners that looked and were 
> marked like the OEM parts but they failed much earlier than they should.
> 
> I've been told stuff can be mad in China to high quality but only if the 
> buyer stays vigilant and monitors the whole process. They will cut corners 
> when possible as that puts more money in their pockets...
> 
> LarryT
> 78 240D
> 91 300D
> 
> On 9/12/2013 11:08 PM, clay wrote:
>> I do not support the chinese economy if I am at all able.   I want first 
>> world parts, and first world quality.  There is a large influx of affluent 
>> orientals coming to my county.  They are not yearning to breath free, other 
>> than to not suffocate on the air they breath.  They are a stimulus, in that 
>> their purchasing power rivals that of the 1%.  They snag high end euro cars, 
>> expensive luxury goods and live high on the hog.  These are university 
>> students.  They may even return to the home land and become good members of 
>> the party, until the party is over.  I suspect they would rather stay here 
>> and live a more healthy life while daddy pays the bills.
>> 
>> If you prefer, I could just shoot them all or gas the homes in which they 
>> reside.  That would be a minimal impact on population.
>> 
>> clay
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Sep 12, 2013, at 6:44 AM, Curt Raymond wrote:
>> 
>>> The Chinese are already suffering the curse of the Asian Tiger. Remember in 
>>> the '80s when you (I was too young) were all crapping yourselves about the 
>>> Japanese? They were going to come over and buy everything and nothing was 
>>> going to be made here. Then they got a middle class and their kids got as 
>>> dumb as our kids and everything settled down.
>>> China has an emerging middle class, everybody wants a car and 2.5 kids and 
>>> an ulcer and wants to be paid a middle class wage. Apple has already said 
>>> the iPhone 6 will be made in the USA, they'd already figured it would only 
>>> take a $30 increase in price.
>>> 
>>> Even though the trade laws have relaxed nobody is going to be shipping 
>>> chicken to China for processing, China is our largest importer of chicken 
>>> feet. We relaxed the trade restrictions so they wouldn't stiffen theirs. 
>>> Everybody in China is terrified of their food supply and won't feed 
>>> anything made in China to their kids. China is ripe for revolution, the 
>>> party is slowly losing its grip.
>>> 
>>> The USA is still a big manufacturing country, probably #2 in the world 
>>> (although theres a lot of "it depends" in there) with most of the stuff 
>>> being built here being high end as opposed to low end user crap.
>>> 
>>> I've been buying "Made in America" more and more lately. What are you doing 
>>> other than crabbing?
>>> 
>>> -Curt
>>> 
>>> Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 00:08:23 -0700
>>> From: clay 
>>> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
>>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Factoid
>>> Message-ID: <782e1892-b577-487e-af64-638411d87...@comcast.net>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>> 
>>> They have lived under the reaction to the reaction to the initial offenses 
>>> of the late 50's.  We would have unseated the Saudis had they not been 
>>> fairly malleable and willing to play as long as we did not mess with them.  
>>> The Israelis are akin to the persians.  They survived the events of Hitler, 
>>> and have become a very reactionary and dangerous society.  The bulk of the 
>>> population has no personal knowledge of what their grandparents went 
>>> through, and have built up a mythos based on the stories they are told, not 
>>> what they have done themselves.  Iran has the mythos of our meddling, the 
>>> rise of the shah, and the reaction that caused the ayatollah to show up.  
>>> Thirty years on, they have their parents to tell them stories of how it was 
>>> under the shah, or listen to grandma.
>>> 
>>> In the meanwhile, they are just as greedy f

Re: [MBZ] Factoid-Iran

[Rich Thomas]

I ate a falafel and boy do I falafel

--R


On 9/14/13 2:51 PM, Gary Hurst wrote:

i've generally enjoyed both israeli and arab falafel joints



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Re: [MBZ] Factoid-Iran

[Gary Hurst]

the israeli is something else in terms of his directness.  he can ask me
"why are you so fat, stupid and useless" and it isn't meant to be insulting
anymore than asking whether your car is red as a preference for red cars or
you just didn't care and bought the car for completely other reasons .
there was a big israeli owned and operated eatery (almost like a food
court) in dunwoody and i tried to explain to them that the natives will not
go for their way of acting and speaking, to which i was rebuffed with how i
am stupid and business is great.  well, obviously, 6 months later, they
were gone.

i've found the arabs similarly disposed but not as bad.  that being said,
i've generally enjoyed both israeli and arab falafel joints, although i've
preferred the big arab camera places in NYC to the israeli run ones.


On Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at 12:44 PM, Scott Ritchey  wrote:

>
> Interesting synopsis which reinforces my belief: Iranians dislike America
> because they have been indoctrinated to think that way.  "Culture" is a
> powerful and pervasive factor that we Americans (actually most Westerners)
> often fail to appreciate.  In a prior life, I was the Director of
> Engineering at the F-16 program Office.  At that time (late 80s) 16
> countries operated some version of the F-16.  The two cultural extremes I
> found most interesting were the Japanese who were so "polite" it was hard
> to
> determine what they were telling us and the Israelis who were so "direct"
> that most would consider them rude.  The Japanese, by the way, didn't have
> actual F-16s but were developing an indigenous fighter (FS-X) derived from
> the F-16, it eventually became their F-2.
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Gerry
> > Archer
> > Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 5:10 PM
> > To: Mercedes Discussion List
> > Subject: [MBZ] Factoid-Iran
> >
> > Here is a view of Irans history; especially its relationships with
> Western
> > nations.
> >
> >
> http://www.fpri.org/footnotes/1426.200909.bakhash.usiranhistorical.html
> >
> > ...
> >
> > From: "Curt Raymond" 
> > You're thinking like an American, our conflict with the Iranians goes
> back
> > to the '30s when the Brits first started raping Iran for oil, then on to
> > where the CIA thought it was a good idea to depose a secular
> > democratically
> > elected government and re-instate a madman intent on killing his own
> > people.
> > The kids of today have parents you know, and they've talked to them and
> > learned what "the white devils" did to them.
> > This is a region known for long memories, they're still squabbling over
> > who
> > said what 1000 years ago never mind things people actually did in the
> last
> > century.
> > Unfortunately as far as I'm concerned we've earned our situation with
> > Iran,
> > we've treated them poorly for the last 80 years and then expect them to
> > just
> > forget all that...
> > -Curt
> >
> > From: "Scott Ritchey" 
> > Given the median age of the Iranian population (27 years), it's hard to
> > believe events over 60 years ago have direct significance to them. Most
> of
> > them were born in the current Islamic Republic. If these folks have
> > heartburn about events during and after WWII, it's only because they have
> > been trained to believe that way, not any actual personal experience.
> > Scott
> >
> >
> > ___
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Re: [MBZ] Factoid-Iran

[Scott Ritchey]

Interesting synopsis which reinforces my belief: Iranians dislike America
because they have been indoctrinated to think that way.  "Culture" is a
powerful and pervasive factor that we Americans (actually most Westerners)
often fail to appreciate.  In a prior life, I was the Director of
Engineering at the F-16 program Office.  At that time (late 80s) 16
countries operated some version of the F-16.  The two cultural extremes I
found most interesting were the Japanese who were so "polite" it was hard to
determine what they were telling us and the Israelis who were so "direct"
that most would consider them rude.  The Japanese, by the way, didn't have
actual F-16s but were developing an indigenous fighter (FS-X) derived from
the F-16, it eventually became their F-2.


> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Gerry
> Archer
> Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 5:10 PM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List
> Subject: [MBZ] Factoid-Iran
> 
> Here is a view of Irans history; especially its relationships with Western
> nations.
> 
>   http://www.fpri.org/footnotes/1426.200909.bakhash.usiranhistorical.html
> 
> ...
> 
> From: "Curt Raymond" 
> You're thinking like an American, our conflict with the Iranians goes back
> to the '30s when the Brits first started raping Iran for oil, then on to
> where the CIA thought it was a good idea to depose a secular
> democratically
> elected government and re-instate a madman intent on killing his own
> people.
> The kids of today have parents you know, and they've talked to them and
> learned what "the white devils" did to them.
> This is a region known for long memories, they're still squabbling over
> who
> said what 1000 years ago never mind things people actually did in the last
> century.
> Unfortunately as far as I'm concerned we've earned our situation with
> Iran,
> we've treated them poorly for the last 80 years and then expect them to
> just
> forget all that...
> -Curt
> 
> From: "Scott Ritchey" 
> Given the median age of the Iranian population (27 years), it's hard to
> believe events over 60 years ago have direct significance to them. Most of
> them were born in the current Islamic Republic. If these folks have
> heartburn about events during and after WWII, it's only because they have
> been trained to believe that way, not any actual personal experience.
> Scott
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] Factoid

[Greg Fiorentino]

<<...the President and his lifelong mentors view US intervention in
international matters to be evil...>>

Yes, I am sure this is true.  Also that the disparity of wealth between the
US and the 3rd. world is evil, and the share of the world's resources
(especially energy) used by the US is evil.  And, that the importance of the
moral imperative to reduce this inequality dwarfs the importance of economic
prosperity and military preparedness.

Of course, some will always be more equal than others.

People talk about how smart Obama and Kerry are, but someone much smarter
said "Si vis pacem, para bellum".

Greg

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Mitch
Haley
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 5:16 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Factoid

Greg Fiorentino wrote:
> In the same way, I don't claim to be a military strategy or foreign 
> policy expert.  I'm simply pointing to some of the many fumbles and 
> inconsistencies in the actions (policies?) of the current administration.

You keep assuming it's an indicator of failure.

Have you considered the possibility that the President and his lifelong
mentors view US intervention in international matters to be evil and would
consider it a good idea to eliminate the USA's ability to throw its weight
around worldwide?

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Factoid

[Scott Ritchey]

This is certainly DeSouza's thesis.

-Original Message-
Mitch Haley Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 8:16 AM

Have you considered the possibility that the President and his lifelong
mentors 
view US intervention in international matters to be evil and would consider
it a 
good idea to eliminate the USA's ability to throw its weight around
worldwide?

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Factoid

[Scott Ritchey]

I think Israelis have sufficient daily reminders of threats to their
existence without considering the holocaust.

-Original Message-
clay Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 3:08 AM

...The Israelis are akin to the persians.  They survived the events of
Hitler, and have become a very reactionary and dangerous society.  The bulk
of the population has no personal knowledge of what their grandparents went
through, and have built up a mythos based on the stories they are told, not
what they have done themselves.  ...



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Re: [MBZ] Factoid

[Gary Hurst]

dan stern once told me about the impossibility of getting quality out of
china as they cheat every spec and care only about price.  you will get the
same product as was made in western europe or north america, but always
something crappier


On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 6:22 AM, Larry T  wrote:

> it's becoming harder and harder to find stuff _/not /_made in China!
> With automotive parts I worry about counterfeit parts that make it into the
> system.  Back in the 80s there were a lot of fasteners that looked and were
> marked like the OEM parts but they failed much earlier than they should.
>
>  I've been told stuff can be mad in China to high quality but only if
> the buyer stays vigilant and monitors the whole process. They will cut
> corners when possible as that puts more money in their pockets...
>
> LarryT
> 78 240D
> 91 300D
>
>
> On 9/12/2013 11:08 PM, clay wrote:
>
>> I do not support the chinese economy if I am at all able.   I want first
>> world parts, and first world quality.  There is a large influx of affluent
>> orientals coming to my county.  They are not yearning to breath free, other
>> than to not suffocate on the air they breath.  They are a stimulus, in that
>> their purchasing power rivals that of the 1%.  They snag high end euro
>> cars, expensive luxury goods and live high on the hog.  These are
>> university students.  They may even return to the home land and become good
>> members of the party, until the party is over.  I suspect they would rather
>> stay here and live a more healthy life while daddy pays the bills.
>>
>> If you prefer, I could just shoot them all or gas the homes in which they
>> reside.  That would be a minimal impact on population.
>>
>> clay
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 12, 2013, at 6:44 AM, Curt Raymond wrote:
>>
>>  The Chinese are already suffering the curse of the Asian Tiger. Remember
>>> in the '80s when you (I was too young) were all crapping yourselves about
>>> the Japanese? They were going to come over and buy everything and nothing
>>> was going to be made here. Then they got a middle class and their kids got
>>> as dumb as our kids and everything settled down.
>>> China has an emerging middle class, everybody wants a car and 2.5 kids
>>> and an ulcer and wants to be paid a middle class wage. Apple has already
>>> said the iPhone 6 will be made in the USA, they'd already figured it would
>>> only take a $30 increase in price.
>>>
>>> Even though the trade laws have relaxed nobody is going to be shipping
>>> chicken to China for processing, China is our largest importer of chicken
>>> feet. We relaxed the trade restrictions so they wouldn't stiffen theirs.
>>> Everybody in China is terrified of their food supply and won't feed
>>> anything made in China to their kids. China is ripe for revolution, the
>>> party is slowly losing its grip.
>>>
>>> The USA is still a big manufacturing country, probably #2 in the world
>>> (although theres a lot of "it depends" in there) with most of the stuff
>>> being built here being high end as opposed to low end user crap.
>>>
>>> I've been buying "Made in America" more and more lately. What are you
>>> doing other than crabbing?
>>>
>>> -Curt
>>>
>>> Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 00:08:23 -0700
>>> From: clay 
>>> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
>>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Factoid
>>> Message-ID: 
>>> <782E1892-B577-487E-AF64-**638411d87...@comcast.net<782e1892-b577-487e-af64-638411d87...@comcast.net>
>>> >
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>>
>>> They have lived under the reaction to the reaction to the initial
>>> offenses of the late 50's.  We would have unseated the Saudis had they not
>>> been fairly malleable and willing to play as long as we did not mess with
>>> them.  The Israelis are akin to the persians.  They survived the events of
>>> Hitler, and have become a very reactionary and dangerous society.  The bulk
>>> of the population has no personal knowledge of what their grandparents went
>>> through, and have built up a mythos based on the stories they are told, not
>>> what they have done themselves.  Iran has the mythos of our meddling, the
>>> rise of the shah, and the reaction that caused the ayatollah to show up.
>>>  Thirty years on, they have their parents to tell them stories of how it
>>> was under the shah, or listen to grandma.
>>>
>&

Re: [MBZ] Factoid

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

With people.  I dont know anything about crabs, we do not have 
crabs around here, well, not the sea creatures anyway.



On 9/12/2013 8:04 PM, Curt Raymond wrote:

With crabs you mean, or people? My wife likes to allow it to people. There are 
plenty of people out there who, as soon as they hear you have something good 
going, try to tear it down, tell you all the reasons it won't work.

You see this a lot if you ride a motorcycle, everybody has to tell you about somebody 
they know that got hurt or "its not if you'll go down, its when you'll go down" 
as if you had no idea it was dangerous...

-Curt


Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 17:57:19 -0500
From: "Kaleb C. Striplin" 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Factoid
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed


That seems to happen in real life all the time

On 9/12/2013 12:23 PM, Curt Raymond wrote:

Which reminds me, have any of you ever actually gone crabbing?



  My wife told me this "crab pot theory" where if a crab manages to climb
  to the top of the pot and hook a claw over to climb out all the other
crabs will grab on to it in an attempt to also climb out thus dooming
the whole lot to the pot as the weight is too much for the one and
everybody falls back in.

I'm curious if that actually happens...

-Curt

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-
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Re: [MBZ] Factoid

[Mitch Haley]

Curt Raymond wrote:

With crabs you mean, or people? My wife likes to allow it to people. There are 
plenty of people out there who, as soon as they hear you have something good 
going, try to tear it down, tell you all the reasons it won't work.


You mean like when some people act as if income disparity is an affront to 
humanity?

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Factoid

[Curt Raymond]

For automotive parts I have to agree with you, for other stuff not so much. 
I've been buying Wigwam socks made in the USA, actually lately I bought "Darn 
Tough" socks made a couple hours from here in Vermont. They're more expensive 
(the "Darn Tough" are very expensive) but more comfortable and seem to wear 
better.
My hiking boots were made in Italy. Again expensive but we're in year #2 of 
being worn daily. The soles are going to fail before year 3 is out but to wear 
2.5x as long for only x2 money is worth it. They're also still waterproof which 
never happens after about the 6 month mark with lesser boots.

American Apparel is all made in USA.

Oh, almost forgot about the Red Wing boots that started me on my made in the 
USA kick, best work boots I've ever had.

-Curt


Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2013 06:22:30 -0400
From: Larry T 
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Factoid
Message-ID: <5232e766.90...@comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

     it's becoming harder and harder to find stuff _/not /_made in 
China!   With automotive parts I worry about counterfeit parts that make 
it into the system.  Back in the 80s there were a lot of fasteners that 
looked and were marked like the OEM parts but they failed much earlier 
than they should.

      I've been told stuff can be mad in China to high quality but only 
if the buyer stays vigilant and monitors the whole process. They will 
cut corners when possible as that puts more money in their pockets...

LarryT
78 240D
91 300D
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Re: [MBZ] Factoid

[Mitch Haley]

Greg Fiorentino wrote:

In the same way, I don't claim to be a military strategy or foreign policy
expert.  I'm simply pointing to some of the many fumbles and inconsistencies
in the actions (policies?) of the current administration.


You keep assuming it's an indicator of failure.

Have you considered the possibility that the President and his lifelong mentors 
view US intervention in international matters to be evil and would consider it a 
good idea to eliminate the USA's ability to throw its weight around worldwide?


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Factoid

[Larry T]

it's becoming harder and harder to find stuff _/not /_made in 
China!   With automotive parts I worry about counterfeit parts that make 
it into the system.  Back in the 80s there were a lot of fasteners that 
looked and were marked like the OEM parts but they failed much earlier 
than they should.


 I've been told stuff can be mad in China to high quality but only 
if the buyer stays vigilant and monitors the whole process. They will 
cut corners when possible as that puts more money in their pockets...


LarryT
78 240D
91 300D

On 9/12/2013 11:08 PM, clay wrote:

I do not support the chinese economy if I am at all able.   I want first world 
parts, and first world quality.  There is a large influx of affluent orientals 
coming to my county.  They are not yearning to breath free, other than to not 
suffocate on the air they breath.  They are a stimulus, in that their 
purchasing power rivals that of the 1%.  They snag high end euro cars, 
expensive luxury goods and live high on the hog.  These are university 
students.  They may even return to the home land and become good members of the 
party, until the party is over.  I suspect they would rather stay here and live 
a more healthy life while daddy pays the bills.

If you prefer, I could just shoot them all or gas the homes in which they 
reside.  That would be a minimal impact on population.

clay



On Sep 12, 2013, at 6:44 AM, Curt Raymond wrote:


The Chinese are already suffering the curse of the Asian Tiger. Remember in the 
'80s when you (I was too young) were all crapping yourselves about the 
Japanese? They were going to come over and buy everything and nothing was going 
to be made here. Then they got a middle class and their kids got as dumb as our 
kids and everything settled down.
China has an emerging middle class, everybody wants a car and 2.5 kids and an 
ulcer and wants to be paid a middle class wage. Apple has already said the 
iPhone 6 will be made in the USA, they'd already figured it would only take a 
$30 increase in price.

Even though the trade laws have relaxed nobody is going to be shipping chicken 
to China for processing, China is our largest importer of chicken feet. We 
relaxed the trade restrictions so they wouldn't stiffen theirs. Everybody in 
China is terrified of their food supply and won't feed anything made in China 
to their kids. China is ripe for revolution, the party is slowly losing its 
grip.

The USA is still a big manufacturing country, probably #2 in the world (although theres a 
lot of "it depends" in there) with most of the stuff being built here being 
high end as opposed to low end user crap.

I've been buying "Made in America" more and more lately. What are you doing 
other than crabbing?

-Curt

Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 00:08:23 -0700
From: clay 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Factoid
Message-ID: <782e1892-b577-487e-af64-638411d87...@comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

They have lived under the reaction to the reaction to the initial offenses of 
the late 50's.  We would have unseated the Saudis had they not been fairly 
malleable and willing to play as long as we did not mess with them.  The 
Israelis are akin to the persians.  They survived the events of Hitler, and 
have become a very reactionary and dangerous society.  The bulk of the 
population has no personal knowledge of what their grandparents went through, 
and have built up a mythos based on the stories they are told, not what they 
have done themselves.  Iran has the mythos of our meddling, the rise of the 
shah, and the reaction that caused the ayatollah to show up.  Thirty years on, 
they have their parents to tell them stories of how it was under the shah, or 
listen to grandma.

In the meanwhile, they are just as greedy for western things as the chinese.  
It took them 25 years after Nixon to become a viable threat to our economy.  In 
the past 18 years, they have destroyed our industrial base, flooded our markets 
with garbage and bought up all our debt.  We have become enslaved to the 
chinese.

Will it take forty or sixty years before we rise up?

clay
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Re: [MBZ] Factoid

[clay]

I do not support the chinese economy if I am at all able.   I want first world 
parts, and first world quality.  There is a large influx of affluent orientals 
coming to my county.  They are not yearning to breath free, other than to not 
suffocate on the air they breath.  They are a stimulus, in that their 
purchasing power rivals that of the 1%.  They snag high end euro cars, 
expensive luxury goods and live high on the hog.  These are university 
students.  They may even return to the home land and become good members of the 
party, until the party is over.  I suspect they would rather stay here and live 
a more healthy life while daddy pays the bills.

If you prefer, I could just shoot them all or gas the homes in which they 
reside.  That would be a minimal impact on population.

clay



On Sep 12, 2013, at 6:44 AM, Curt Raymond wrote:

> The Chinese are already suffering the curse of the Asian Tiger. Remember in 
> the '80s when you (I was too young) were all crapping yourselves about the 
> Japanese? They were going to come over and buy everything and nothing was 
> going to be made here. Then they got a middle class and their kids got as 
> dumb as our kids and everything settled down.
> China has an emerging middle class, everybody wants a car and 2.5 kids and an 
> ulcer and wants to be paid a middle class wage. Apple has already said the 
> iPhone 6 will be made in the USA, they'd already figured it would only take a 
> $30 increase in price.
> 
> Even though the trade laws have relaxed nobody is going to be shipping 
> chicken to China for processing, China is our largest importer of chicken 
> feet. We relaxed the trade restrictions so they wouldn't stiffen theirs. 
> Everybody in China is terrified of their food supply and won't feed anything 
> made in China to their kids. China is ripe for revolution, the party is 
> slowly losing its grip.
> 
> The USA is still a big manufacturing country, probably #2 in the world 
> (although theres a lot of "it depends" in there) with most of the stuff being 
> built here being high end as opposed to low end user crap. 
> 
> I've been buying "Made in America" more and more lately. What are you doing 
> other than crabbing?
> 
> -Curt
> 
> Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 00:08:23 -0700
> From: clay 
> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Factoid
> Message-ID: <782e1892-b577-487e-af64-638411d87...@comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> They have lived under the reaction to the reaction to the initial offenses of 
> the late 50's.  We would have unseated the Saudis had they not been fairly 
> malleable and willing to play as long as we did not mess with them.  The 
> Israelis are akin to the persians.  They survived the events of Hitler, and 
> have become a very reactionary and dangerous society.  The bulk of the 
> population has no personal knowledge of what their grandparents went through, 
> and have built up a mythos based on the stories they are told, not what they 
> have done themselves.  Iran has the mythos of our meddling, the rise of the 
> shah, and the reaction that caused the ayatollah to show up.  Thirty years 
> on, they have their parents to tell them stories of how it was under the 
> shah, or listen to grandma.  
> 
> In the meanwhile, they are just as greedy for western things as the chinese.  
> It took them 25 years after Nixon to become a viable threat to our economy.  
> In the past 18 years, they have destroyed our industrial base, flooded our 
> markets with garbage and bought up all our debt.  We have become enslaved to 
> the chinese.  
> 
> Will it take forty or sixty years before we rise up?
> 
> clay
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] Factoid

[Mountain Man]

clay wrote:
> What NSA did was outside and beyond the bounds of its charter.
>

Yes, that is correct.
The issue still remains, however.
You can't do anything about NSA mission creep.
Also, the collection of data and use of data is and has been out in
the public sphere for a very looong time.
We remain without recourse against mission creep, and also we are
still happy to have this data collection and analyses assist us in
getting that best rate that saves us $0.5 per dollar on the money
we borrow.  We like the use of the data.  We have zero ability to
change this system.  Be happy.  Live with what is and choose to not
participate as much as you like.  DIY like okiebenz moves in that
fringe realm very well, as long as owning tools and buying replacement
parts remains available without FBI/NSA calling us terrorists.
mao

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[MBZ] Factoid-Iran

[Gerry Archer]

Here is a view of Irans history; especially its relationships with Western
nations.

 http://www.fpri.org/footnotes/1426.200909.bakhash.usiranhistorical.html

...

From: "Curt Raymond" 
You're thinking like an American, our conflict with the Iranians goes back
to the '30s when the Brits first started raping Iran for oil, then on to
where the CIA thought it was a good idea to depose a secular democratically
elected government and re-instate a madman intent on killing his own people.
The kids of today have parents you know, and they've talked to them and
learned what "the white devils" did to them.
This is a region known for long memories, they're still squabbling over who
said what 1000 years ago never mind things people actually did in the last
century.
Unfortunately as far as I'm concerned we've earned our situation with Iran,
we've treated them poorly for the last 80 years and then expect them to just
forget all that...
-Curt

From: "Scott Ritchey" 
Given the median age of the Iranian population (27 years), it's hard to
believe events over 60 years ago have direct significance to them. Most of
them were born in the current Islamic Republic. If these folks have
heartburn about events during and after WWII, it's only because they have
been trained to believe that way, not any actual personal experience.
Scott


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[MBZ] MBZ factoid

[Benz Hogs]

This list is suppose to be free of politics.  Please stop and move them 
to Banned.



--
Luther   KB5QHUForest Park, IL
'98 ML320 "Max" (170,xxx mi)

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Re: [MBZ] Factoid

[Scott Ritchey]

We used fish heads, same method.  The trick was to raise the string slowly
and smoothly or the crab would bolt.  Same with the net.

-Original Message-
Rich Thomas Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 1:49 PM

"You can do it two ways.  One way is fun for kids, you get some chicken 
necks and tie a string to them, toss them out and wait for a crab to 
come around and grab it.  They don't want to let go so you can slowly 
pull in the bait and the crab will stick with it.  You have a net on 
about a 10ft pole, scoop up the crab."




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Re: [MBZ] Factoid

[Randy Bennell]

On 12/09/2013 12:44 PM, Dan Penoff wrote:

Down here in Florida my in laws went crabbing by just tossing a line with a raw 
chicken leg tied to the end into the water. 2-3 sips of beer and pull the line 
up with the crab attached. Remove and repeat.

Dan


My kids and their cousins used to catch little crayfish off of our dock 
with a little bit of hotdog tied to a string.

The crayfish would grab onto the hotdog and ride the thing up onto the dock.

Randy

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Re: [MBZ] Factoid

[Mountain Man]

Curt wrote:
> I've been buying "Made in America" more and more lately. What are you doing 
> other than crabbing?
>

I've been doing that since you were a kid and didn't remember those
days.  Walmart used to tout their made in usa stuff so I would try to
shop that stuff.  I had to watch carefully, and back when you were a
bit older, but still a kid, Walmart went all chinese which has made me
not darken their door in over 15 years.

USA needs to stop making boogie man about everyone else and let people
like Vlad be the peace maker.  We have lost any track record of peace
maker.  Maybe Vlad has reformed?  You were a kid when the cold war
supposedly ended, yet we all still live like 60-year olds and call
Russia "thugs."  Some international honesty about Iran, Guatemala,
Nicaragua, Chile, VietNam, etc might be good for USA healing, but that
is not going to happen as long as it is okay to kill 40k kids with
bullets but not okay to kill 400 kids with chemicals.  Chinese poison
foods probably kill more kids in USA than the Syria chemicals did last
month.  And, there has been zero explanation/proof that the
dictatorship did the deed - just talk of gut feeling of certainty.
Honesty? - I call our bluff.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] Factoid

[Curt Raymond]

With crabs you mean, or people? My wife likes to allow it to people. There are 
plenty of people out there who, as soon as they hear you have something good 
going, try to tear it down, tell you all the reasons it won't work.

You see this a lot if you ride a motorcycle, everybody has to tell you about 
somebody they know that got hurt or "its not if you'll go down, its when you'll 
go down" as if you had no idea it was dangerous...

-Curt


Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 17:57:19 -0500
From: "Kaleb C. Striplin" 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Factoid
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed


That seems to happen in real life all the time

On 9/12/2013 12:23 PM, Curt Raymond wrote:
> Which reminds me, have any of you ever actually gone crabbing?
>
>
 My wife told me this "crab pot theory" where if a crab manages to climb
 to the top of the pot and hook a claw over to climb out all the other 
crabs will grab on to it in an attempt to also climb out thus dooming 
the whole lot to the pot as the weight is too much for the one and 
everybody falls back in.
>
> I'm curious if that actually happens...
>
> -Curt
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Re: [MBZ] Factoid

[Rich Thomas]

You can do it two ways.  One way is fun for kids, you get some chicken 
necks and tie a string to them, toss them out and wait for a crab to 
come around and grab it.  They don't want to let go so you can slowly 
pull in the bait and the crab will stick with it.  You have a net on 
about a 10ft pole, scoop up the crab.


The other is with a crab pot, I have not heard that hypothesis on them 
grabbing each other.  Usually the pot has a funnel sort of thing they 
can get in but not out.  The stone crabs you can snap off one big claw, 
it will grow back and the other will get big.  A renewable resource!


People around here do both ways, you need a boat for the pots and have 
to check them every day.  You can actually get a bunch pretty quickly 
with the string and chicken neck technique.  I have not gone out but I 
see guys in the creek just down the road doing it all the time.


--R


On 9/12/13 1:23 PM, Curt Raymond wrote:

Which reminds me, have any of you ever actually gone crabbing?

My wife told me this "crab pot theory" where if a crab manages to climb to the 
top of the pot and hook a claw over to climb out all the other crabs will grab on to it 
in an attempt to also climb out thus dooming the whole lot to the pot as the weight is 
too much for the one and everybody falls back in.

I'm curious if that actually happens...

-Curt

Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 09:56:05 -0400
From: Rich Thomas 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Factoid
Message-ID: <5231c7f5.5040...@constructivity.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

I go shrimping and fishing sometimes too.

--R


On 9/12/13 9:44 AM, Curt Raymond wrote:

What are you doing other than crabbing?

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[MBZ] Factoid-China

[Gerry Archer]

China since Mao-Tze-Tung died:

http://www.fpri.org/footnotes/124.200702.lardy.chinaseconomy.html

From: "Curt Raymond" 
The Chinese are already suffering the curse of the Asian Tiger. Remember in
the '80s when you (I was too young) were all crapping yourselves about the
Japanese? They were going to come over and buy everything and nothing was
going to be made here. Then they got a middle class and their kids got as
dumb as our kids and everything settled down.
China has an emerging middle class, everybody wants a car and 2.5 kids and
an ulcer and wants to be paid a middle class wage. Apple has already said
the iPhone 6 will be made in the USA, they'd already figured it would only
take a $30 increase in price.

Even though the trade laws have relaxed nobody is going to be shipping
chicken to China for processing, China is our largest importer of chicken
feet. We relaxed the trade restrictions so they wouldn't stiffen theirs.
Everybody in China is terrified of their food supply and won't feed anything
made in China to their kids. China is ripe for revolution, the party is
slowly losing its grip.

The USA is still a big manufacturing country, probably #2 in the world
(although theres a lot of "it depends" in there) with most of the stuff
being built here being high end as opposed to low end user crap.

I've been buying "Made in America" more and more lately. What are you doing
other than crabbing?

-Curt

From: clay 
They have lived under the reaction to the reaction to the initial offenses
of the late 50's. We would have unseated the Saudis had they not been fairly
malleable and willing to play as long as we did not mess with them. The
Israelis are akin to the persians. They survived the events of Hitler, and
have become a very reactionary and dangerous society. The bulk of the
population has no personal knowledge of what their grandparents went
through, and have built up a mythos based on the stories they are told, not
what they have done themselves. Iran has the mythos of our meddling, the
rise of the shah, and the reaction that caused the ayatollah to show up.
Thirty years on, they have their parents to tell them stories of how it was
under the shah, or listen to grandma.
In the meanwhile, they are just as greedy for western things as the chinese.
It took them 25 years after Nixon to become a viable threat to our economy.
In the past 18 years, they have destroyed our industrial base, flooded our
markets with garbage and bought up all our debt. We have become enslaved to
the chinese.
Will it take forty or sixty years before we rise up?
clay


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Re: [MBZ] Factoid

[Curt Raymond]

Which reminds me, have any of you ever actually gone crabbing?

My wife told me this "crab pot theory" where if a crab manages to climb to the 
top of the pot and hook a claw over to climb out all the other crabs will grab 
on to it in an attempt to also climb out thus dooming the whole lot to the pot 
as the weight is too much for the one and everybody falls back in.

I'm curious if that actually happens...

-Curt

Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 09:56:05 -0400
From: Rich Thomas 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Factoid
Message-ID: <5231c7f5.5040...@constructivity.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

I go shrimping and fishing sometimes too.

--R


On 9/12/13 9:44 AM, Curt Raymond wrote:
> What are you doing other than crabbing?
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Re: [MBZ] Factoid

[Greg Fiorentino]

When I was a kid Grandpa took me crabbing for blue crabs.  We used the traps
with the side doors that pulled up and shut.  We only usually caught 1 or 2
at a time, so there was no way to test this theory.  Those crabs made the
most delicious pasta sauce!

Greg

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Curt
Raymond
Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 10:23 AM
To: Diesel List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Factoid

Which reminds me, have any of you ever actually gone crabbing?

My wife told me this "crab pot theory" where if a crab manages to climb to
the top of the pot and hook a claw over to climb out all the other crabs
will grab on to it in an attempt to also climb out thus dooming the whole
lot to the pot as the weight is too much for the one and everybody falls
back in.

I'm curious if that actually happens...

-Curt

Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 09:56:05 -0400
From: Rich Thomas 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Factoid
Message-ID: <5231c7f5.5040...@constructivity.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

I go shrimping and fishing sometimes too.

--R


On 9/12/13 9:44 AM, Curt Raymond wrote:
> What are you doing other than crabbing?
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Re: [MBZ] Factoid

[OK Don]

I received my first order of grown in the USA tea yesterday - it's pretty
good.
Tea party, anyone? (Boston style)

On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 8:44 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:

>
> I've been buying "Made in America" more and more lately. What are you
> doing other than crabbing?
>
> -Curt
>


-- 
OK Don
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin 1775
"in this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes."
- Benjamin Franklin 1789
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] Factoid

[Alex Chamberlain]

On Sep 12, 2013 6:04 PM, "Curt Raymond"  wrote:

>
> You see this a lot if you ride a motorcycle, everybody has to tell you
about somebody they know that got hurt or "its not if you'll go down, its
when you'll go down" as if you had no idea it was dangerous...
>
> -

Also in the context of concealed carry.  "You have a loaded gun on you all
the time?  Isn't that dangerous?"  ("Well, I certainly hope so!")

Alex
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Re: [MBZ] Factoid

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

That seems to happen in real life all the time

On 9/12/2013 12:23 PM, Curt Raymond wrote:

Which reminds me, have any of you ever actually gone crabbing?

My wife told me this "crab pot theory" where if a crab manages to climb to the 
top of the pot and hook a claw over to climb out all the other crabs will grab on to it 
in an attempt to also climb out thus dooming the whole lot to the pot as the weight is 
too much for the one and everybody falls back in.

I'm curious if that actually happens...

-Curt

Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 09:56:05 -0400
From: Rich Thomas 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Factoid
Message-ID: <5231c7f5.5040...@constructivity.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

I go shrimping and fishing sometimes too.

--R


On 9/12/13 9:44 AM, Curt Raymond wrote:

What are you doing other than crabbing?

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-
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3222/6656 - Release Date: 09/11/13





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Re: [MBZ] Factoid

[Dan Penoff]

Down here in Florida my in laws went crabbing by just tossing a line with a raw 
chicken leg tied to the end into the water. 2-3 sips of beer and pull the line 
up with the crab attached. Remove and repeat.

Dan

Sent from my iPad

On Sep 12, 2013, at 1:23 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:

> Which reminds me, have any of you ever actually gone crabbing?
> 
> My wife told me this "crab pot theory" where if a crab manages to climb to 
> the top of the pot and hook a claw over to climb out all the other crabs will 
> grab on to it in an attempt to also climb out thus dooming the whole lot to 
> the pot as the weight is too much for the one and everybody falls back in.
> 
> I'm curious if that actually happens...
> 
> -Curt
> 
> Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 09:56:05 -0400
> From: Rich Thomas 
> To: Mercedes Discussion List 
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Factoid
> Message-ID: <5231c7f5.5040...@constructivity.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> I go shrimping and fishing sometimes too.
> 
> --R
> 
> 
> On 9/12/13 9:44 AM, Curt Raymond wrote:
>> What are you doing other than crabbing?
> ___
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Re: [MBZ] MBZ factoid

[Rick Knoble]

On Sep 12, 2013, at 11:33 AM, "Benz Hogs"  wrote:

> This list is suppose to be free of politics.  Please stop and move them to 
> Banned.


Or Banned Lite (Light?). 

Rick
Wondering if Lite is correct...

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Re: [MBZ] Factoid

[Rich Thomas]

I go shrimping and fishing sometimes too.

--R


On 9/12/13 9:44 AM, Curt Raymond wrote:

What are you doing other than crabbing?



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Re: [MBZ] Factoid

[Curt Raymond]

The Chinese are already suffering the curse of the Asian Tiger. Remember in the 
'80s when you (I was too young) were all crapping yourselves about the 
Japanese? They were going to come over and buy everything and nothing was going 
to be made here. Then they got a middle class and their kids got as dumb as our 
kids and everything settled down.
China has an emerging middle class, everybody wants a car and 2.5 kids and an 
ulcer and wants to be paid a middle class wage. Apple has already said the 
iPhone 6 will be made in the USA, they'd already figured it would only take a 
$30 increase in price.

Even though the trade laws have relaxed nobody is going to be shipping chicken 
to China for processing, China is our largest importer of chicken feet. We 
relaxed the trade restrictions so they wouldn't stiffen theirs. Everybody in 
China is terrified of their food supply and won't feed anything made in China 
to their kids. China is ripe for revolution, the party is slowly losing its 
grip.

The USA is still a big manufacturing country, probably #2 in the world 
(although theres a lot of "it depends" in there) with most of the stuff being 
built here being high end as opposed to low end user crap. 

I've been buying "Made in America" more and more lately. What are you doing 
other than crabbing?

-Curt

Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 00:08:23 -0700
From: clay 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Factoid
Message-ID: <782e1892-b577-487e-af64-638411d87...@comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

They have lived under the reaction to the reaction to the initial offenses of 
the late 50's.  We would have unseated the Saudis had they not been fairly 
malleable and willing to play as long as we did not mess with them.  The 
Israelis are akin to the persians.  They survived the events of Hitler, and 
have become a very reactionary and dangerous society.  The bulk of the 
population has no personal knowledge of what their grandparents went through, 
and have built up a mythos based on the stories they are told, not what they 
have done themselves.  Iran has the mythos of our meddling, the rise of the 
shah, and the reaction that caused the ayatollah to show up.  Thirty years on, 
they have their parents to tell them stories of how it was under the shah, or 
listen to grandma.  

In the meanwhile, they are just as greedy for western things as the chinese.  
It took them 25 years after Nixon to become a viable threat to our economy.  In 
the past 18 years, they have destroyed our industrial base, flooded our markets 
with garbage and bought up all our debt.  We have become enslaved to the 
chinese.  

Will it take forty or sixty years before we rise up?

clay
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Re: [MBZ] Factoid

[Curt Raymond]

You're thinking like an American, our conflict with the Iranians goes back to 
the '30s when the Brits first started raping Iran for oil, then on to where the 
CIA thought it was a good idea to depose a secular democratically elected 
government and re-instate a madman intent on killing his own people. The kids 
of today have parents you know, and they've talked to them and learned what 
"the white devils" did to them.
This is a region known for long memories, they're still squabbling over who 
said what 1000 years ago never mind things people actually did in the last 
century.
Unfortunately as far as I'm concerned we've earned our situation with Iran, 
we've treated them poorly for the last 80 years and then expect them to just 
forget all that...

-Curt

Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 22:20:12 -0400
From: "Scott Ritchey" 
To: "'Mercedes Discussion List'" 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Factoid
Message-ID: <47195F66E87A4B38B9430391DDEED95D@ScottHPPC>
Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"


Given the median age of the Iranian population (27 years), it's hard to
believe events over 60 years ago have direct significance to them.  Most of
them were born in the current Islamic Republic.  If these folks have
heartburn about events during and after WWII, it's only because they have
been trained to believe that way, not any actual personal experience.  

Scott
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Re: [MBZ] Factoid

[clay]

The feud the Irish have with the british is much older than that.  I think it 
goes back at least 600 years.  It got a good spooling up in the aught's over 
labor, then really spun up in the 1919 uprisings, to the point, the Irish were 
not interested in supporting the english war effort in WWII.

England has only recently had peaceable relations with the French.  They have 
not been fond of each other since before 1056 if memory serves.  And any reason 
to heat up the fight was good enough for the next millennium.

clay

On Sep 11, 2013, at 8:55 PM, Scott Ritchey wrote:

> 
> 
> 
> Not so much.  The Good Friday Agreement or Belfast Agreement for Ireland was
> pretty recent, 1998.  All Irish adults have personal memories of that
> "shooting war".
> 
> Scott
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Gerry
> Archer
> Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 11:17 PM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Factoid
> 
> Could they be like the Irish who are still battling the British about events
> 
> that happened many years ago?  Muslims do seem to have long memories.
> Gerry
> 
>> Given the median age of the Iranian population (27 years), it's hard to
>> believe events over 60 years ago have direct significance to them.  Most 
>> of
>> them were born in the current Islamic Republic.  If these folks have
>> heartburn about events during and after WWII, it's only because they have
>> been trained to believe that way, not any actual personal experience.
>> 
>> Scott
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Peter
>> Frederick
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 6:44 PM
>> To: Mercedes Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Factoid
>> 
>> Almost all of our problems with Iran have been a result of the rather
>> brutal and heavyhanded meddling we did, along with the British, during
>> and after WWII.
>> 
>> They are, after all, natural allies, since they don't want to be
>> occupied by Russia, who has had it's beady eye on their natural
>> resources for about 200 years, and actively been attempting to grab
>> them since the 1850's.
>> 
>> The Ayatolla was our repayment for Eisenhower's treatment of Mossedah.
>> 
>> Peter
>> 
>> __
> 
> 
> 
> ___
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] Factoid

[clay]

They have lived under the reaction to the reaction to the initial offenses of 
the late 50's.  We would have unseated the Saudis had they not been fairly 
malleable and willing to play as long as we did not mess with them.  The 
Israelis are akin to the persians.  They survived the events of Hitler, and 
have become a very reactionary and dangerous society.  The bulk of the 
population has no personal knowledge of what their grandparents went through, 
and have built up a mythos based on the stories they are told, not what they 
have done themselves.  Iran has the mythos of our meddling, the rise of the 
shah, and the reaction that caused the ayatollah to show up.  Thirty years on, 
they have their parents to tell them stories of how it was under the shah, or 
listen to grandma.  

In the meanwhile, they are just as greedy for western things as the chinese.  
It took them 25 years after Nixon to become a viable threat to our economy.   
In the past 18 years, they have destroyed our industrial base, flooded our 
markets with garbage and bought up all our debt.  We have become enslaved to 
the chinese.  

Will it take forty or sixty years before we rise up?

clay
 
On Sep 11, 2013, at 7:20 PM, Scott Ritchey wrote:

> 
> Given the median age of the Iranian population (27 years), it's hard to
> believe events over 60 years ago have direct significance to them.  Most of
> them were born in the current Islamic Republic.  If these folks have
> heartburn about events during and after WWII, it's only because they have
> been trained to believe that way, not any actual personal experience.  
> 
> Scott
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Peter
> Frederick
> Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 6:44 PM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Factoid
> 
> Almost all of our problems with Iran have been a result of the rather  
> brutal and heavyhanded meddling we did, along with the British, during  
> and after WWII.
> 
> They are, after all, natural allies, since they don't want to be  
> occupied by Russia, who has had it's beady eye on their natural  
> resources for about 200 years, and actively been attempting to grab  
> them since the 1850's.
> 
> The Ayatolla was our repayment for Eisenhower's treatment of Mossedah.
> 
> Peter
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com


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Re: [MBZ] Factoid

[clay]

What NSA did was outside and beyond the bounds of its charter.  It has, and 
should never have, access to or intervention in domestic intelligence 
collection.  It was established to monitor intelligence outside our borders and 
to report on what it found to the appropriate intelligence agencies for action. 
 The FBI was to do domestic spying.  This is how J. Edgar Hoover set it up.  
The agency was so compartmentalized that even married agents who worked 
distinct sectors had no access to the intelligence, nor was it to be discussed 
outside of their little dominion.  They were meant to take what they learned to 
the grave.  The good ones did.  The better ones got recruited by CIA.

clay



On Sep 11, 2013, at 6:29 PM, Mountain Man wrote:

> Gerry wrote:
>> Comment?
> 
> My comment? - Probably very true.
> Please note - NSA is behind the times regarding data collection and
> manipulation.  Elsevier/LexisNexis has been collecting and
> manipulating personal data for much longer than the NSA.  And, we are
> happy they do.  This type of data manipulation is what makes it
> possible for you to exit the bank with your $300k mortgage.  Why
> complain today that NSA is using data?  The data is there for biz.  Do
> I like this?  Nope.  I merely point out that data collection and
> manipulation is hardly new nor is it necessarily a freedom
> restriction.
> mao
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Factoid

[clay]

Government is meant to subjugate the masses so as not to interfere with the 
enrichment of those keeping the government in power.  It is a perpetual 
enslavement mechanism which will spew out petty rewards to divert attention 
from the increasing pressure of the iron collar around the public's neck.  This 
continues until the public is either lynched by the powers that be, or the 
masses turn upon the establishment and destroy all that has been enslaving 
them.  With their new found freedoms, this devolves into chaos until a 
recognition of mutual benefit can be had by banding together.  Then a new 
leadership and government is hatched to control the public.

Repeat as needed until the end of the human race


clay 

2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately & well tailored chap
1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV
POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers








On Sep 11, 2013, at 4:47 PM, Gerry Archer wrote:

> "It is the job of centralized government (in peacetime) to protect its
> citizens' lives, liberty and property. All other activities of government
> tend to diminish freedom and hamper progress. The growth of government (the
> dominant social feature of this century) must be fought relentlessly.
> The profound crisis of our era is, in essence, the conflict between the
> Social Engineers, who seek to adjust mankind to conform with scientific
> utopias, and the disciples of Truth, who defend the organic moral order."
> 
> Comment?
> 
> 
> 
> ___
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> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] Factoid

[Scott Ritchey]

Not so much.  The Good Friday Agreement or Belfast Agreement for Ireland was
pretty recent, 1998.  All Irish adults have personal memories of that
"shooting war".

Scott

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Gerry
Archer
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 11:17 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Factoid

Could they be like the Irish who are still battling the British about events

that happened many years ago?  Muslims do seem to have long memories.
Gerry

> Given the median age of the Iranian population (27 years), it's hard to
> believe events over 60 years ago have direct significance to them.  Most 
> of
> them were born in the current Islamic Republic.  If these folks have
> heartburn about events during and after WWII, it's only because they have
> been trained to believe that way, not any actual personal experience.
>
> Scott
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Peter
> Frederick
> Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 6:44 PM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Factoid
>
> Almost all of our problems with Iran have been a result of the rather
> brutal and heavyhanded meddling we did, along with the British, during
> and after WWII.
>
> They are, after all, natural allies, since they don't want to be
> occupied by Russia, who has had it's beady eye on their natural
> resources for about 200 years, and actively been attempting to grab
> them since the 1850's.
>
> The Ayatolla was our repayment for Eisenhower's treatment of Mossedah.
>
> Peter
>
> __



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Re: [MBZ] Factoid

[Gerry Archer]

Could they be like the Irish who are still battling the British about events 
that happened many years ago?  Muslims do seem to have long memories.

Gerry


Given the median age of the Iranian population (27 years), it's hard to
believe events over 60 years ago have direct significance to them.  Most 
of

them were born in the current Islamic Republic.  If these folks have
heartburn about events during and after WWII, it's only because they have
been trained to believe that way, not any actual personal experience.

Scott

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Peter
Frederick
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 6:44 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Factoid

Almost all of our problems with Iran have been a result of the rather
brutal and heavyhanded meddling we did, along with the British, during
and after WWII.

They are, after all, natural allies, since they don't want to be
occupied by Russia, who has had it's beady eye on their natural
resources for about 200 years, and actively been attempting to grab
them since the 1850's.

The Ayatolla was our repayment for Eisenhower's treatment of Mossedah.

Peter

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-
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2242 / Virus Database: 3222/6156 - Release Date: 09/11/13




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Re: [MBZ] Factoid

[Greg Fiorentino]

I don't know much about football, baseball or hockey.  But that doesn't
prevent me from watching a game and noticing serious screw ups on the part
of some players.  You might fairly say "could you do better?"

In the same way, I don't claim to be a military strategy or foreign policy
expert.  I'm simply pointing to some of the many fumbles and inconsistencies
in the actions (policies?) of the current administration.  Do you not see a
dissonance between wanting to send a message to Iran by attacking its client
and then in the next moment easing sanctions on that regime?

OTOH, IF I were president, I would choose cabinet members with track records
that show expertise in these areas as well as homeland security.  Clearly
Hillary Clinton, Kerry and Napolitano did not and do not meet those
criteria.  It appears to me that they were chosen for their ideology rather
than ability.

Greg

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Andrew
Strasfogel
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 6:55 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Factoid

Love to hear your better ideas.


On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 6:55 PM, Greg Fiorentino
wrote:

> Why are you encouraging me to add "noise" to this list?
>
> That being said, strategists have said that the (formerly impending) 
> attack on Syria would be "sending a message to Iran".  So is this 
> another part of the message?
>
> Sponsor a regime that attacks its own population with chemical weapons 
> and we will reward you with reduced sanctions?
>
> This smart diplomacy is obviously far above my intellectual capabilities.
> /sarc.
>
> Greg
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of 
> Gerry Archer
> Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 3:32 PM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List
> Subject: [MBZ] Factoid
>
> The Obama administration on Tuesday eased longstanding restraints on 
> humanitarian and good-will activities between Iran and the United 
> States, including athletic exchanges. It was at least the second 
> American government relaxation of Iranian sanctions this year and came 
> as Iran's new president, Hassan Rouhani, has signaled his desire to 
> improve relations.
>
> Mr. Rouhani, who was elected in June and took office last month, has 
> said he wanted to reduce Iran's isolation and to find a diplomatic 
> solution to the nuclear dispute. He has not specified whether Iran was 
> prepared to make any concessions, but in an interview on Iranian state 
> television on Tuesday he said that time for resolving the dispute was 
> limited and that "I am hopeful we can, step by step, solve this 
> problem."
>
> Comment?
>
>
>
>
> -
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2012.0.2242 / Virus Database: 3222/6156 - Release Date: 
> 09/11/13
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Factoid

[OK Don]

On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 6:47 PM, Gerry Archer wrote:

> "It is the job of centralized government (in peacetime) to protect its
> citizens' lives, liberty and property. All other activities of government
> tend to diminish freedom and hamper progress. The growth of government (the
> dominant social feature of this century) must be fought relentlessly.
> The profound crisis of our era is, in essence, the conflict between the
> Social Engineers, who seek to adjust mankind to conform with scientific
> utopias, and the disciples of Truth, who defend the organic moral order."
>
> Comment?
>
The devil is in the details, It could be argued that protecting lives and
property involve economic equality and universal access to health care as
examples.

The definitions and interpretations of "Truth" and "organic moral order"
are also up for grabs. The Islamists seem to have radically different set
of both.


-- 
OK Don
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin 1775
"in this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes."
- Benjamin Franklin 1789
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] Factoid

[Scott Ritchey]

Given the median age of the Iranian population (27 years), it's hard to
believe events over 60 years ago have direct significance to them.  Most of
them were born in the current Islamic Republic.  If these folks have
heartburn about events during and after WWII, it's only because they have
been trained to believe that way, not any actual personal experience.  

Scott

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Peter
Frederick
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 6:44 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Factoid

Almost all of our problems with Iran have been a result of the rather  
brutal and heavyhanded meddling we did, along with the British, during  
and after WWII.

They are, after all, natural allies, since they don't want to be  
occupied by Russia, who has had it's beady eye on their natural  
resources for about 200 years, and actively been attempting to grab  
them since the 1850's.

The Ayatolla was our repayment for Eisenhower's treatment of Mossedah.

Peter

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Re: [MBZ] Factoid

[Andrew Strasfogel]

Love to hear your better ideas.


On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 6:55 PM, Greg Fiorentino wrote:

> Why are you encouraging me to add "noise" to this list?
>
> That being said, strategists have said that the (formerly impending) attack
> on Syria would be "sending a message to Iran".  So is this another part of
> the message?
>
> Sponsor a regime that attacks its own population with chemical weapons and
> we will reward you with reduced sanctions?
>
> This smart diplomacy is obviously far above my intellectual capabilities.
> /sarc.
>
> Greg
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Gerry
> Archer
> Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 3:32 PM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List
> Subject: [MBZ] Factoid
>
> The Obama administration on Tuesday eased longstanding restraints on
> humanitarian and good-will activities between Iran and the United States,
> including athletic exchanges. It was at least the second American
> government
> relaxation of Iranian sanctions this year and came as Iran's new president,
> Hassan Rouhani, has signaled his desire to improve relations.
>
> Mr. Rouhani, who was elected in June and took office last month, has said
> he
> wanted to reduce Iran's isolation and to find a diplomatic solution to the
> nuclear dispute. He has not specified whether Iran was prepared to make any
> concessions, but in an interview on Iranian state television on Tuesday he
> said that time for resolving the dispute was limited and that "I am hopeful
> we can, step by step, solve this problem."
>
> Comment?
>
>
>
>
> -
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2012.0.2242 / Virus Database: 3222/6156 - Release Date: 09/11/13
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Factoid

[Mountain Man]

Gerry wrote:
> Comment?

My comment? - Probably very true.
Please note - NSA is behind the times regarding data collection and
manipulation.  Elsevier/LexisNexis has been collecting and
manipulating personal data for much longer than the NSA.  And, we are
happy they do.  This type of data manipulation is what makes it
possible for you to exit the bank with your $300k mortgage.  Why
complain today that NSA is using data?  The data is there for biz.  Do
I like this?  Nope.  I merely point out that data collection and
manipulation is hardly new nor is it necessarily a freedom
restriction.
mao

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[MBZ] Factoid

[Gerry Archer]

"It is the job of centralized government (in peacetime) to protect its
citizens' lives, liberty and property. All other activities of government
tend to diminish freedom and hamper progress. The growth of government (the
dominant social feature of this century) must be fought relentlessly.
The profound crisis of our era is, in essence, the conflict between the
Social Engineers, who seek to adjust mankind to conform with scientific
utopias, and the disciples of Truth, who defend the organic moral order."

Comment?



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[MBZ] Factoid

[Gerry Archer]

Even if the NSA's campaign to loosen the world's digital locks (encryption)
has a long history, experts say there's much more at stake. Cryptographers
say that the weaknesses left by the NSA might one day be used by America's
rivals in Moscow or Beijing - or even savvy cybercriminals, if the loopholes
aren't being used already.

"What one person can discover, another person can discover. In the end,
somebody will figure it out," said Ben Laurie, a core developer behind
OpenSSL, a protocol that helps protect a big chunk of the world's Internet
users from fraudulent websites, credit-card scams and identity theft. "If
you deliberately weaken stuff, it will come back to bite you."


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Re: [MBZ] Factoid

[Greg Fiorentino]

Why are you encouraging me to add "noise" to this list?

That being said, strategists have said that the (formerly impending) attack
on Syria would be "sending a message to Iran".  So is this another part of
the message?

Sponsor a regime that attacks its own population with chemical weapons and
we will reward you with reduced sanctions?

This smart diplomacy is obviously far above my intellectual capabilities.
/sarc.

Greg

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Gerry
Archer
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 3:32 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: [MBZ] Factoid

The Obama administration on Tuesday eased longstanding restraints on
humanitarian and good-will activities between Iran and the United States,
including athletic exchanges. It was at least the second American government
relaxation of Iranian sanctions this year and came as Iran's new president,
Hassan Rouhani, has signaled his desire to improve relations.

Mr. Rouhani, who was elected in June and took office last month, has said he
wanted to reduce Iran's isolation and to find a diplomatic solution to the
nuclear dispute. He has not specified whether Iran was prepared to make any
concessions, but in an interview on Iranian state television on Tuesday he
said that time for resolving the dispute was limited and that "I am hopeful
we can, step by step, solve this problem."

Comment?




-
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2242 / Virus Database: 3222/6156 - Release Date: 09/11/13


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Re: [MBZ] Factoid

[Peter Frederick]

Almost all of our problems with Iran have been a result of the rather  
brutal and heavyhanded meddling we did, along with the British, during  
and after WWII.


They are, after all, natural allies, since they don't want to be  
occupied by Russia, who has had it's beady eye on their natural  
resources for about 200 years, and actively been attempting to grab  
them since the 1850's.


The Ayatolla was our repayment for Eisenhower's treatment of Mossedah.

Peter

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[MBZ] Factoid

[Gerry Archer]

The Obama administration on Tuesday eased longstanding restraints on 
humanitarian and good-will activities between Iran and the United States, 
including athletic exchanges. It was at least the second American government 
relaxation of Iranian sanctions this year and came as Iran’s new president, 
Hassan Rouhani, has signaled his desire to improve relations.


Mr. Rouhani, who was elected in June and took office last month, has said he 
wanted to reduce Iran’s isolation and to find a diplomatic solution to the 
nuclear dispute. He has not specified whether Iran was prepared to make any 
concessions, but in an interview on Iranian state television on Tuesday he 
said that time for resolving the dispute was limited and that “I am hopeful 
we can, step by step, solve this problem.”


Comment?




-
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2242 / Virus Database: 3222/6156 - Release Date: 09/11/13


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