Re: [MBZ] Loss of power

[MG via Mercedes]

yeah the day before.

Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:

Did you ask when the tank was filled in relation to the problem appearing?

Gasoline would explain the symptoms.

MG via Mercedes 
February 6, 2017 at 4:56 PM
That's why I was wondering if just the injection pump can jump and 
still have the cam in the original timing. cause the compression is 
good. The timing device breaking is something I will tell them to 
check, Though that will require the removal of the front cover. I 
think. Maybe just do a drip timing check to see where it is.


Manfred



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Re: [MBZ] Loss of power

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Did you ask when the tank was filled in relation to the problem appearing?

Gasoline would explain the symptoms.

MG via Mercedes 
February 6, 2017 at 4:56 PM
That's why I was wondering if just the injection pump can jump and 
still have the cam in the original timing. cause the compression is 
good. The timing device breaking is something I will tell them to 
check, Though that will require the removal of the front cover. I 
think. Maybe just do a drip timing check to see where it is.


Manfred



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Re: [MBZ] Loss of power

[MG via Mercedes]

Good idea Scott. I'll pass that on to them just in case.

Manfred

Scott Ritchey via Mercedes wrote:

When this happened to me (fill up with gasoline), the test was to connect a
hose to the lift pump and stick the other end into a jug of known good
Diesel.  It started right up after some cranking, the filter still had too
much gas.  Draining the full fuel tank wasn't fun in the winter but that fix
was much better than the worst case.
Scott


-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Cathey via Mercedes
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2017 8:44 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Cc: Jim Cathey <jim.cathey...@gmail.com>; MG <trainpain2...@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Loss of power

Yeah, sudden loss of power and bad running just after a fillup?  _All_ of

BP's

handles are green, my wife put gasoline in the 300D because of that once.
Was Terribly Mysterious until it was recognized.  Just sniff the fuel

filler neck

with a clean nose. Siphon out a lot, and replace with diesel.  No problem.

-- Jim
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Re: [MBZ] Loss of power

[MG via Mercedes]

I'll tell them to give that a try.

Larry Turner via Mercedes wrote:
An Oil Analysis would also tell a great deal ;-).  Got to do it before 
the oil gets changed though.


LarryT

youroil.net

Proving oil analysis service to the world!


On 02/03/2017 5:42 PM, MG via Mercedes wrote:
That was one of the things that I was wondering. I told him to take 
the strainer in the bottom of the tank loose and drain some fuel into 
a clean pan and see if there is any water in there. Haven't heard back 
from him yet.


Randy Bennell via Mercedes wrote:

Bad fuel?
How long before this happened did he last fill up?

RB


On 03/02/2017 11:26 AM, MG via Mercedes wrote:
A friend has an 82 300D which suddenly lost power while going down 
the road at 55-60. Blew white smoke and died. Supposedly no odd 
noises. Won't start lots of white smoke coming out the tailpipe that 
smells like unburned diesel. He did a compression check and says 
it's OK. I forgot to ask what exactly it is. He has replaced all the 
fuel filters and bled the injectors. Get fuel with no bubbles when 
the lines are opened while trying to start. Says the fuse on the 
glow plugs is good.


What gets me is the sudden loss of power running down the road.
Only thing I can think of is the timing chain but I would think that 
that would mess up the valves and effect the compression. Can the 
injection pump jump timing by itself without the valves timing jumping?


Any clues?

Manfred

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Re: [MBZ] Loss of power

[MG via Mercedes]

That's why I was wondering if just the injection pump can jump 
and still have the cam in the original timing. cause the 
compression is good. The timing device breaking is something I 
will tell them to check, Though that will require the removal of 
the front cover. I think. Maybe just do a drip timing check to 
see where it is.


Manfred

Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:
If the timing advance device broke, perhaps...  Max had an experience 
with that.  Don't know what the symptoms were.


IF the timing chain skips a tooth onthe cam, I think the camshaft and 
the bearings break.  Certainly if it is off 2 or more teeth, the 
camshaft will become several.



MG via Mercedes 
February 3, 2017 at 11:26 AM
A friend has an 82 300D which suddenly lost power while going down the 
road at 55-60. Blew white smoke and died. Supposedly no odd noises. 
Won't start lots of white smoke coming out the tailpipe that smells 
like unburned diesel. He did a compression check and says it's OK. I 
forgot to ask what exactly it is. He has replaced all the fuel filters 
and bled the injectors. Get fuel with no bubbles when the lines are 
opened while trying to start. Says the fuse on the glow plugs is good.


What gets me is the sudden loss of power running down the road.
Only thing I can think of is the timing chain but I would think that 
that would mess up the valves and effect the compression. Can the 
injection pump jump timing by itself without the valves timing jumping?


Any clues?

Manfred


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Re: [MBZ] Loss of power

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

My '95 sedan needed a new timing gear, the face was chewed up by a failed
vacuum pump.

On Feb 4, 2017 7:00 PM, "Curley McLain via Mercedes" 
wrote:

SORRY  No, I thought I remembered you had to replace the timing advance
when you got the whale.  Maybe you just threatened to replace it?
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Re: [MBZ] Loss of power

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

When this happened to me (fill up with gasoline), the test was to connect a
hose to the lift pump and stick the other end into a jug of known good
Diesel.  It started right up after some cranking, the filter still had too
much gas.  Draining the full fuel tank wasn't fun in the winter but that fix
was much better than the worst case.
Scott

> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Jim
> Cathey via Mercedes
> Sent: Friday, February 03, 2017 8:44 PM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> Cc: Jim Cathey <jim.cathey...@gmail.com>; MG <trainpain2...@aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Loss of power
> 
> Yeah, sudden loss of power and bad running just after a fillup?  _All_ of
BP's
> handles are green, my wife put gasoline in the 300D because of that once.
> Was Terribly Mysterious until it was recognized.  Just sniff the fuel
filler neck
> with a clean nose. Siphon out a lot, and replace with diesel.  No problem.
> 
> -- Jim
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] Loss of power

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

SORRY  No, I thought I remembered you had to replace the timing advance 
when you got the whale.  Maybe you just threatened to replace it?



Meade Dillon via Mercedes 
February 4, 2017 at 11:53 AM
Trying to start a vicious rumor? Broken timing device has been postulated
as afflicting The White Whale, but not yet confirmed. I'm still working my
way from cheap / easy fixes to complex / expensive. Next test will be
replacing the fuel filters and reversing the supply / return lines in the
engine bay (to bypass a potentially clogged tank screen).

-
Max
Charleston SC


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Re: [MBZ] Loss of power

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

Trying to start a vicious rumor?  Broken timing device has been postulated
as afflicting The White Whale, but not yet confirmed.  I'm still working my
way from cheap / easy fixes to complex / expensive.  Next test will be
replacing the fuel filters and reversing the supply / return lines in the
engine bay (to bypass a potentially clogged tank screen).

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 9:22 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> If the timing advance device broke, perhaps...  Max had an experience with
> that.  Don't know what the symptoms were.
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Loss of power

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

Yep it's usually 240d's that do it for some reason. Maybe because they are 
always running at max rpm just to get up and go.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 3, 2017, at 11:29 PM, Larry Turner via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> My 240D did that. Ran fine in the morning but wouldn't start in the 
> afternoon.  0 comprerssion on #'s 3&4.
> 
> LarryT
> 
> 
>> On 02/03/2017 5:18 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
>> Well I have seen and heard of several that suddely lost compression and 
>> stopped running.
>> 
>> 
>>> On 2/3/2017 12:58 PM, MG via Mercedes wrote:
>>> He said he did and that it was OK. I forgot to ask what it was and if the 
>>> OK was for a gas or diesel engine. A little bit of a difference there.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
 Gee I must be losing my mind, I thought I saw 240d. Yes compression would 
 be way low. Maybe he really didn't check compression?
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On Feb 3, 2017, at 11:39 AM, MG via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> 300D not 240.
> That would affect the compression if the head gasket was blown bad enough 
> to stop the car in mid race wouldn't it.
> 
> Manfred
> 
> Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
>> Hahahahahahahahaha, sorry, 240d, lost power, sounded funny. Anyway, 
>> sounds like a  blown head gasket to me Sent from my iPhone
>>> On Feb 3, 2017, at 11:26 AM, MG via Mercedes  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> A friend has an 82 300D which suddenly lost power while going down the 
>>> road at 55-60. Blew white smoke and died. Supposedly no odd noises. 
>>> Won't start lots of white smoke coming out the tailpipe that smells 
>>> like unburned diesel. He did a compression check and says it's OK. I 
>>> forgot to ask what exactly it is. He has replaced all the fuel filters 
>>> and bled the injectors. Get fuel with no bubbles when the lines are 
>>> opened while trying to start. Says the fuse on the glow plugs is good.
>>> 
>>> What gets me is the sudden loss of power running down the road.
>>> Only thing I can think of is the timing chain but I would think that 
>>> that would mess up the valves and effect the compression. Can the 
>>> injection pump jump timing by itself without the valves timing jumping?
>>> 
>>> Any clues?
>>> 
>>> Manfred
>>> 
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>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] Loss of power

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

+1   I didn't think about that possibility, but yes, if fuel was added 
recently, that is a good possibility.  In the one experience i had, the 
car ran ok   until the filter and IP chamber were filled with the new 
fuel mix.  In that case I know of, it was about 6 miles before it 
started to run bad, but managed to limp home the last mile or so.  Not fun.


Fortunately most of the BP stations are gone.  In some parts of the 
country, unfortunately, the brits are still around pushing their evil 
gasoline through Diesel handles.

Jim Cathey via Mercedes 
February 3, 2017 at 7:43 PM
Yeah, sudden loss of power and bad running just after a fillup? _All_ of
BP's handles are green, my wife put gasoline in the 300D because of that
once. Was Terribly Mysterious until it was recognized. Just sniff the
fuel filler neck with a clean nose. Siphon out a lot, and replace with
diesel. No problem.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Loss of power

[Larry Turner via Mercedes]

An Oil Analysis would also tell a great deal ;-).  Got to do it before 
the oil gets changed though.


LarryT

youroil.net

Proving oil analysis service to the world!


On 02/03/2017 5:42 PM, MG via Mercedes wrote:
That was one of the things that I was wondering. I told him to take 
the strainer in the bottom of the tank loose and drain some fuel into 
a clean pan and see if there is any water in there. Haven't heard back 
from him yet.


Randy Bennell via Mercedes wrote:

Bad fuel?
How long before this happened did he last fill up?

RB


On 03/02/2017 11:26 AM, MG via Mercedes wrote:
A friend has an 82 300D which suddenly lost power while going down 
the road at 55-60. Blew white smoke and died. Supposedly no odd 
noises. Won't start lots of white smoke coming out the tailpipe that 
smells like unburned diesel. He did a compression check and says 
it's OK. I forgot to ask what exactly it is. He has replaced all the 
fuel filters and bled the injectors. Get fuel with no bubbles when 
the lines are opened while trying to start. Says the fuse on the 
glow plugs is good.


What gets me is the sudden loss of power running down the road.
Only thing I can think of is the timing chain but I would think that 
that would mess up the valves and effect the compression. Can the 
injection pump jump timing by itself without the valves timing jumping?


Any clues?

Manfred

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Re: [MBZ] Loss of power

[Larry Turner via Mercedes]

My 240D did that. Ran fine in the morning but wouldn't start in the 
afternoon.  0 comprerssion on #'s 3&4.


LarryT


On 02/03/2017 5:18 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
Well I have seen and heard of several that suddely lost compression 
and stopped running.



On 2/3/2017 12:58 PM, MG via Mercedes wrote:
He said he did and that it was OK. I forgot to ask what it was and if 
the OK was for a gas or diesel engine. A little bit of a difference 
there.




Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
Gee I must be losing my mind, I thought I saw 240d. Yes compression 
would be way low. Maybe he really didn't check compression?


Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 3, 2017, at 11:39 AM, MG via Mercedes 
 wrote:


300D not 240.
That would affect the compression if the head gasket was blown bad 
enough to stop the car in mid race wouldn't it.


Manfred

Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
Hahahahahahahahaha, sorry, 240d, lost power, sounded funny. 
Anyway, sounds like a  blown head gasket to me Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 3, 2017, at 11:26 AM, MG via Mercedes 
 wrote:


A friend has an 82 300D which suddenly lost power while going 
down the road at 55-60. Blew white smoke and died. Supposedly no 
odd noises. Won't start lots of white smoke coming out the 
tailpipe that smells like unburned diesel. He did a compression 
check and says it's OK. I forgot to ask what exactly it is. He 
has replaced all the fuel filters and bled the injectors. Get 
fuel with no bubbles when the lines are opened while trying to 
start. Says the fuse on the glow plugs is good.


What gets me is the sudden loss of power running down the road.
Only thing I can think of is the timing chain but I would think 
that that would mess up the valves and effect the compression. 
Can the injection pump jump timing by itself without the valves 
timing jumping?


Any clues?

Manfred

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Re: [MBZ] Loss of power

[Larry Turner via Mercedes]

IMO that's carbon build up.  Our '91 did that until I bought some 
"Mechanic in a Can" that would loosen and dissolve the carbon.  That and 
6 months of driving to/from work at 60 mph for 1 hr each way. It never 
did it again.  Seems like it would lose power and blow white smoke when 
the temp was around 50F and the engine was just started.


LarryT


On 02/03/2017 12:26 PM, MG via Mercedes wrote:
A friend has an 82 300D which suddenly lost power while going down the 
road at 55-60. Blew white smoke and died. Supposedly no odd noises. 
Won't start lots of white smoke coming out the tailpipe that smells 
like unburned diesel. He did a compression check and says it's OK. I 
forgot to ask what exactly it is. He has replaced all the fuel filters 
and bled the injectors. Get fuel with no bubbles when the lines are 
opened while trying to start. Says the fuse on the glow plugs is good.


What gets me is the sudden loss of power running down the road.
Only thing I can think of is the timing chain but I would think that 
that would mess up the valves and effect the compression. Can the 
injection pump jump timing by itself without the valves timing jumping?


Any clues?

Manfred

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Re: [MBZ] Loss of power

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

If the timing advance device broke, perhaps...  Max had an experience 
with that.  Don't know what the symptoms were.


IF the timing chain skips a tooth onthe cam, I think the camshaft and 
the bearings break.  Certainly if it is off 2 or more teeth, the 
camshaft will become several.



MG via Mercedes 
February 3, 2017 at 11:26 AM
A friend has an 82 300D which suddenly lost power while going down the 
road at 55-60. Blew white smoke and died. Supposedly no odd noises. 
Won't start lots of white smoke coming out the tailpipe that smells 
like unburned diesel. He did a compression check and says it's OK. I 
forgot to ask what exactly it is. He has replaced all the fuel filters 
and bled the injectors. Get fuel with no bubbles when the lines are 
opened while trying to start. Says the fuse on the glow plugs is good.


What gets me is the sudden loss of power running down the road.
Only thing I can think of is the timing chain but I would think that 
that would mess up the valves and effect the compression. Can the 
injection pump jump timing by itself without the valves timing jumping?


Any clues?

Manfred


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Re: [MBZ] Loss of power

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

Yeah, sudden loss of power and bad running just after a fillup?  _All_ of
BP's handles are green, my wife put gasoline in the 300D because of that
once.  Was Terribly Mysterious until it was recognized.  Just sniff the
fuel filler neck with a clean nose. Siphon out a lot, and replace with
diesel.  No problem.

-- Jim
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Re: [MBZ] Loss of power

[MG via Mercedes]

That was one of the things that I was wondering. I told him to 
take the strainer in the bottom of the tank loose and drain some 
fuel into a clean pan and see if there is any water in there. 
Haven't heard back from him yet.


Randy Bennell via Mercedes wrote:

Bad fuel?
How long before this happened did he last fill up?

RB


On 03/02/2017 11:26 AM, MG via Mercedes wrote:
A friend has an 82 300D which suddenly lost power while going down the 
road at 55-60. Blew white smoke and died. Supposedly no odd noises. 
Won't start lots of white smoke coming out the tailpipe that smells 
like unburned diesel. He did a compression check and says it's OK. I 
forgot to ask what exactly it is. He has replaced all the fuel filters 
and bled the injectors. Get fuel with no bubbles when the lines are 
opened while trying to start. Says the fuse on the glow plugs is good.


What gets me is the sudden loss of power running down the road.
Only thing I can think of is the timing chain but I would think that 
that would mess up the valves and effect the compression. Can the 
injection pump jump timing by itself without the valves timing jumping?


Any clues?

Manfred

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Re: [MBZ] Loss of power

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Fri, 3 Feb 2017 16:18:23 -0600 "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes"
 wrote:

> Well I have seen and heard of several that suddely lost 
> compression and stopped running.

That happened with our '72 220D/8 as I was driving from Calhan, Colorado,
to Colorado Springs.

I had the injection pump and injectors rebuilt, but never got them
reinstalled.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Loss of power

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

Well I have seen and heard of several that suddely lost 
compression and stopped running.



On 2/3/2017 12:58 PM, MG via Mercedes wrote:
He said he did and that it was OK. I forgot to ask what it was 
and if the OK was for a gas or diesel engine. A little bit of a 
difference there.




Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
Gee I must be losing my mind, I thought I saw 240d. Yes 
compression would be way low. Maybe he really didn't check 
compression?


Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 3, 2017, at 11:39 AM, MG via Mercedes 
 wrote:


300D not 240.
That would affect the compression if the head gasket was blown 
bad enough to stop the car in mid race wouldn't it.


Manfred

Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
Hahahahahahahahaha, sorry, 240d, lost power, sounded funny. 
Anyway, sounds like a  blown head gasket to me Sent from my 
iPhone
On Feb 3, 2017, at 11:26 AM, MG via Mercedes 
 wrote:


A friend has an 82 300D which suddenly lost power while 
going down the road at 55-60. Blew white smoke and died. 
Supposedly no odd noises. Won't start lots of white smoke 
coming out the tailpipe that smells like unburned diesel. He 
did a compression check and says it's OK. I forgot to ask 
what exactly it is. He has replaced all the fuel filters and 
bled the injectors. Get fuel with no bubbles when the lines 
are opened while trying to start. Says the fuse on the glow 
plugs is good.


What gets me is the sudden loss of power running down the road.
Only thing I can think of is the timing chain but I would 
think that that would mess up the valves and effect the 
compression. Can the injection pump jump timing by itself 
without the valves timing jumping?


Any clues?

Manfred

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Re: [MBZ] Loss of power

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Tired engine syndrome.

On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 2:49 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Engine seizing can be less exciting than you might think. Angie said our
> 240D just drove slower and slower until the engine shut off...
> -Curt
>
>   From: Randy Bennell via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>  To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> Cc: Randy Bennell <rbenn...@bennell.ca>
>  Sent: Friday, February 3, 2017 2:31 PM
>  Subject: Re: [MBZ] Loss of power
>
> I would think that would have been pretty obvious.
> Oil everywhere followed by the engine seizing.
>
> RB
>
> On 03/02/2017 1:27 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
> > Wild guess - could he have lost all his engine oil when the engine
> > collapsed on the oil cooler lines?
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 1:58 PM, MG via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> He said he did and that it was OK. I forgot to ask what it was and if
> the
> >> OK was for a gas or diesel engine. A little bit of a difference there.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
> >>
> >>> Gee I must be losing my mind, I thought I saw 240d. Yes compression
> would
> >>> be way low. Maybe he really didn't check compression?
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Feb 3, 2017, at 11:39 AM, MG via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> 300D not 240.
> >>>> That would affect the compression if the head gasket was blown bad
> >>>> enough to stop the car in mid race wouldn't it.
> >>>>
> >>>> Manfred
> >>>>
> >>>> Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Hahahahahahahahaha, sorry, 240d, lost power, sounded funny. Anyway,
> >>>>> sounds like a  blown head gasket to me Sent from my iPhone
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Feb 3, 2017, at 11:26 AM, MG via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com
> >
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> A friend has an 82 300D which suddenly lost power while going down
> the
> >>>>>> road at 55-60. Blew white smoke and died. Supposedly no odd noises.
> Won't
> >>>>>> start lots of white smoke coming out the tailpipe that smells like
> unburned
> >>>>>> diesel. He did a compression check and says it's OK. I forgot to
> ask what
> >>>>>> exactly it is. He has replaced all the fuel filters and bled the
> injectors.
> >>>>>> Get fuel with no bubbles when the lines are opened while trying to
> start.
> >>>>>> Says the fuse on the glow plugs is good.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> What gets me is the sudden loss of power running down the road.
> >>>>>> Only thing I can think of is the timing chain but I would think that
> >>>>>> that would mess up the valves and effect the compression. Can the
> injection
> >>>>>> pump jump timing by itself without the valves timing jumping?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Any clues?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Manfred
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ___
> >>>>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >>>>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>>>>>
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> >>>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
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> >>>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] Loss of power

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Engine seizing can be less exciting than you might think. Angie said our 240D 
just drove slower and slower until the engine shut off...
-Curt

  From: Randy Bennell via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: Randy Bennell <rbenn...@bennell.ca>
 Sent: Friday, February 3, 2017 2:31 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Loss of power
   
I would think that would have been pretty obvious.
Oil everywhere followed by the engine seizing.

RB

On 03/02/2017 1:27 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
> Wild guess - could he have lost all his engine oil when the engine
> collapsed on the oil cooler lines?
>
> On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 1:58 PM, MG via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> wrote:
>
>> He said he did and that it was OK. I forgot to ask what it was and if the
>> OK was for a gas or diesel engine. A little bit of a difference there.
>>
>>
>>
>> Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
>>
>>> Gee I must be losing my mind, I thought I saw 240d. Yes compression would
>>> be way low. Maybe he really didn't check compression?
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>> On Feb 3, 2017, at 11:39 AM, MG via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> 300D not 240.
>>>> That would affect the compression if the head gasket was blown bad
>>>> enough to stop the car in mid race wouldn't it.
>>>>
>>>> Manfred
>>>>
>>>> Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hahahahahahahahaha, sorry, 240d, lost power, sounded funny. Anyway,
>>>>> sounds like a  blown head gasket to me Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Feb 3, 2017, at 11:26 AM, MG via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A friend has an 82 300D which suddenly lost power while going down the
>>>>>> road at 55-60. Blew white smoke and died. Supposedly no odd noises. Won't
>>>>>> start lots of white smoke coming out the tailpipe that smells like 
>>>>>> unburned
>>>>>> diesel. He did a compression check and says it's OK. I forgot to ask what
>>>>>> exactly it is. He has replaced all the fuel filters and bled the 
>>>>>> injectors.
>>>>>> Get fuel with no bubbles when the lines are opened while trying to start.
>>>>>> Says the fuse on the glow plugs is good.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What gets me is the sudden loss of power running down the road.
>>>>>> Only thing I can think of is the timing chain but I would think that
>>>>>> that would mess up the valves and effect the compression. Can the 
>>>>>> injection
>>>>>> pump jump timing by itself without the valves timing jumping?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any clues?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Manfred
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ___
>>>>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>>>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>>>>>
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>>>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>>>>
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Re: [MBZ] Loss of power

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

Bad fuel?
How long before this happened did he last fill up?

RB


On 03/02/2017 11:26 AM, MG via Mercedes wrote:
A friend has an 82 300D which suddenly lost power while going down the 
road at 55-60. Blew white smoke and died. Supposedly no odd noises. 
Won't start lots of white smoke coming out the tailpipe that smells 
like unburned diesel. He did a compression check and says it's OK. I 
forgot to ask what exactly it is. He has replaced all the fuel filters 
and bled the injectors. Get fuel with no bubbles when the lines are 
opened while trying to start. Says the fuse on the glow plugs is good.


What gets me is the sudden loss of power running down the road.
Only thing I can think of is the timing chain but I would think that 
that would mess up the valves and effect the compression. Can the 
injection pump jump timing by itself without the valves timing jumping?


Any clues?

Manfred

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Re: [MBZ] Loss of power

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Figured it was worth a try - need to rule out everything that might cause
this to happen.

On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 2:31 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I would think that would have been pretty obvious.
> Oil everywhere followed by the engine seizing.
>
> RB
>
> On 03/02/2017 1:27 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:
>
>> Wild guess - could he have lost all his engine oil when the engine
>> collapsed on the oil cooler lines?
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 1:58 PM, MG via Mercedes 
>> wrote:
>>
>> He said he did and that it was OK. I forgot to ask what it was and if the
>>> OK was for a gas or diesel engine. A little bit of a difference there.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
>>>
>>> Gee I must be losing my mind, I thought I saw 240d. Yes compression would
 be way low. Maybe he really didn't check compression?

 Sent from my iPhone


 On Feb 3, 2017, at 11:39 AM, MG via Mercedes 

> wrote:
>
> 300D not 240.
> That would affect the compression if the head gasket was blown bad
> enough to stop the car in mid race wouldn't it.
>
> Manfred
>
> Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
>
> Hahahahahahahahaha, sorry, 240d, lost power, sounded funny. Anyway,
>> sounds like a  blown head gasket to me Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Feb 3, 2017, at 11:26 AM, MG via Mercedes 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> A friend has an 82 300D which suddenly lost power while going down
>>> the
>>> road at 55-60. Blew white smoke and died. Supposedly no odd noises.
>>> Won't
>>> start lots of white smoke coming out the tailpipe that smells like
>>> unburned
>>> diesel. He did a compression check and says it's OK. I forgot to ask
>>> what
>>> exactly it is. He has replaced all the fuel filters and bled the
>>> injectors.
>>> Get fuel with no bubbles when the lines are opened while trying to
>>> start.
>>> Says the fuse on the glow plugs is good.
>>>
>>> What gets me is the sudden loss of power running down the road.
>>> Only thing I can think of is the timing chain but I would think that
>>> that would mess up the valves and effect the compression. Can the
>>> injection
>>> pump jump timing by itself without the valves timing jumping?
>>>
>>> Any clues?
>>>
>>> Manfred
>>>
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>>
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>>
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>>
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Re: [MBZ] Loss of power

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

I would think that would have been pretty obvious.
Oil everywhere followed by the engine seizing.

RB

On 03/02/2017 1:27 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:

Wild guess - could he have lost all his engine oil when the engine
collapsed on the oil cooler lines?

On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 1:58 PM, MG via Mercedes 
wrote:


He said he did and that it was OK. I forgot to ask what it was and if the
OK was for a gas or diesel engine. A little bit of a difference there.



Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes wrote:


Gee I must be losing my mind, I thought I saw 240d. Yes compression would
be way low. Maybe he really didn't check compression?

Sent from my iPhone


On Feb 3, 2017, at 11:39 AM, MG via Mercedes 

wrote:

300D not 240.
That would affect the compression if the head gasket was blown bad
enough to stop the car in mid race wouldn't it.

Manfred

Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes wrote:


Hahahahahahahahaha, sorry, 240d, lost power, sounded funny. Anyway,
sounds like a  blown head gasket to me Sent from my iPhone


On Feb 3, 2017, at 11:26 AM, MG via Mercedes 
wrote:

A friend has an 82 300D which suddenly lost power while going down the
road at 55-60. Blew white smoke and died. Supposedly no odd noises. Won't
start lots of white smoke coming out the tailpipe that smells like unburned
diesel. He did a compression check and says it's OK. I forgot to ask what
exactly it is. He has replaced all the fuel filters and bled the injectors.
Get fuel with no bubbles when the lines are opened while trying to start.
Says the fuse on the glow plugs is good.

What gets me is the sudden loss of power running down the road.
Only thing I can think of is the timing chain but I would think that
that would mess up the valves and effect the compression. Can the injection
pump jump timing by itself without the valves timing jumping?

Any clues?

Manfred

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Re: [MBZ] Loss of power

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Wild guess - could he have lost all his engine oil when the engine
collapsed on the oil cooler lines?

On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 1:58 PM, MG via Mercedes 
wrote:

> He said he did and that it was OK. I forgot to ask what it was and if the
> OK was for a gas or diesel engine. A little bit of a difference there.
>
>
>
> Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
>
>> Gee I must be losing my mind, I thought I saw 240d. Yes compression would
>> be way low. Maybe he really didn't check compression?
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Feb 3, 2017, at 11:39 AM, MG via Mercedes 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> 300D not 240.
>>> That would affect the compression if the head gasket was blown bad
>>> enough to stop the car in mid race wouldn't it.
>>>
>>> Manfred
>>>
>>> Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
>>>
 Hahahahahahahahaha, sorry, 240d, lost power, sounded funny. Anyway,
 sounds like a  blown head gasket to me Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 3, 2017, at 11:26 AM, MG via Mercedes 
> wrote:
>
> A friend has an 82 300D which suddenly lost power while going down the
> road at 55-60. Blew white smoke and died. Supposedly no odd noises. Won't
> start lots of white smoke coming out the tailpipe that smells like 
> unburned
> diesel. He did a compression check and says it's OK. I forgot to ask what
> exactly it is. He has replaced all the fuel filters and bled the 
> injectors.
> Get fuel with no bubbles when the lines are opened while trying to start.
> Says the fuse on the glow plugs is good.
>
> What gets me is the sudden loss of power running down the road.
> Only thing I can think of is the timing chain but I would think that
> that would mess up the valves and effect the compression. Can the 
> injection
> pump jump timing by itself without the valves timing jumping?
>
> Any clues?
>
> Manfred
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
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Re: [MBZ] Loss of power

[MG via Mercedes]

He said he did and that it was OK. I forgot to ask what it was 
and if the OK was for a gas or diesel engine. A little bit of a 
difference there.




Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes wrote:

Gee I must be losing my mind, I thought I saw 240d. Yes compression would be 
way low. Maybe he really didn't check compression?

Sent from my iPhone


On Feb 3, 2017, at 11:39 AM, MG via Mercedes  wrote:

300D not 240.
That would affect the compression if the head gasket was blown bad enough to 
stop the car in mid race wouldn't it.

Manfred

Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes wrote:

Hahahahahahahahaha, sorry, 240d, lost power, sounded funny. Anyway, sounds like 
a  blown head gasket to me Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 3, 2017, at 11:26 AM, MG via Mercedes  wrote:

A friend has an 82 300D which suddenly lost power while going down the road at 
55-60. Blew white smoke and died. Supposedly no odd noises. Won't start lots of 
white smoke coming out the tailpipe that smells like unburned diesel. He did a 
compression check and says it's OK. I forgot to ask what exactly it is. He has 
replaced all the fuel filters and bled the injectors. Get fuel with no bubbles 
when the lines are opened while trying to start. Says the fuse on the glow 
plugs is good.

What gets me is the sudden loss of power running down the road.
Only thing I can think of is the timing chain but I would think that that would 
mess up the valves and effect the compression. Can the injection pump jump 
timing by itself without the valves timing jumping?

Any clues?

Manfred

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Re: [MBZ] Loss of power

[MG via Mercedes]

That was my thought but then why doesn't it start when cold?

Manfred

Randy Bennell via Mercedes wrote:

Wouldn't white smoke indicate coolant leaking into the exhaust?
Head gasket or a crack in the head that is leaking into the cylinders?
I assume he checked compression later after it was towed home and cooled 
off.

Maybe the leakage only occurs when it is hot?

RB

On 03/02/2017 11:26 AM, MG via Mercedes wrote:
A friend has an 82 300D which suddenly lost power while going down the 
road at 55-60. Blew white smoke and died. Supposedly no odd noises. 
Won't start lots of white smoke coming out the tailpipe that smells 
like unburned diesel. He did a compression check and says it's OK. I 
forgot to ask what exactly it is. He has replaced all the fuel filters 
and bled the injectors. Get fuel with no bubbles when the lines are 
opened while trying to start. Says the fuse on the glow plugs is good.


What gets me is the sudden loss of power running down the road.
Only thing I can think of is the timing chain but I would think that 
that would mess up the valves and effect the compression. Can the 
injection pump jump timing by itself without the valves timing jumping?


Any clues?

Manfred

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Re: [MBZ] Loss of power

[MG via Mercedes]

The cam does turn. They haven't checked the timing yet. I'm still 
waiting for that.


Manfred

Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

What if the chain was broken? Compression test should show normal because the 
valves should shut as they get pounded by the pistons right?
Open the oil filler and ensure the cam turns?
-Curt

  From: MG via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: trainpain2...@aol.com

 Sent: Friday, February 3, 2017 12:39 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Loss of power
   
300D not 240.
That would affect the compression if the head gasket was blown 
bad enough to stop the car in mid race wouldn't it.


Manfred

Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
Hahahahahahahahaha, sorry, 240d, lost power, sounded funny. Anyway, sounds like a  blown head gasket to me 


Sent from my iPhone


On Feb 3, 2017, at 11:26 AM, MG via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

A friend has an 82 300D which suddenly lost power while going down the road at 
55-60. Blew white smoke and died. Supposedly no odd noises. Won't start lots of 
white smoke coming out the tailpipe that smells like unburned diesel. He did a 
compression check and says it's OK. I forgot to ask what exactly it is. He has 
replaced all the fuel filters and bled the injectors. Get fuel with no bubbles 
when the lines are opened while trying to start. Says the fuse on the glow 
plugs is good.

What gets me is the sudden loss of power running down the road.
Only thing I can think of is the timing chain but I would think that that would 
mess up the valves and effect the compression. Can the injection pump jump 
timing by itself without the valves timing jumping?

Any clues?

Manfred

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Re: [MBZ] Loss of power

[tyee165 via Mercedes]

Maybe so. I was thinking the smell of diesel might mask the smell of coolant.


Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A
 Original message From: Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com> Date: 2017-02-03  12:03 PM  (GMT-06:00) To: Mercedes 
Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> Cc: Curt Raymond <curtlud...@yahoo.com> 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Loss of power 
Unburnt diesel looks white or grey. Note how he noted that it smells like 
diesel. Coolant would smell sweet and you probably wouldn't get much of a cloud 
of it on cranking...
-Curt

  From: Randy Bennell via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: Randy Bennell <rbenn...@bennell.ca>
 Sent: Friday, February 3, 2017 12:54 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Loss of power
   
Wouldn't white smoke indicate coolant leaking into the exhaust?
Head gasket or a crack in the head that is leaking into the cylinders?
I assume he checked compression later after it was towed home and cooled 
off.
Maybe the leakage only occurs when it is hot?

RB

On 03/02/2017 11:26 AM, MG via Mercedes wrote:
> A friend has an 82 300D which suddenly lost power while going down the 
> road at 55-60. Blew white smoke and died. Supposedly no odd noises. 
> Won't start lots of white smoke coming out the tailpipe that smells 
> like unburned diesel. He did a compression check and says it's OK. I 
> forgot to ask what exactly it is. He has replaced all the fuel filters 
> and bled the injectors. Get fuel with no bubbles when the lines are 
> opened while trying to start. Says the fuse on the glow plugs is good.
>
> What gets me is the sudden loss of power running down the road.
> Only thing I can think of is the timing chain but I would think that 
> that would mess up the valves and effect the compression. Can the 
> injection pump jump timing by itself without the valves timing jumping?
>
> Any clues?
>
> Manfred
>
> ___
>


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Re: [MBZ] Loss of power

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

Gee I must be losing my mind, I thought I saw 240d. Yes compression would be 
way low. Maybe he really didn't check compression?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 3, 2017, at 11:39 AM, MG via Mercedes  wrote:
> 
> 300D not 240.
> That would affect the compression if the head gasket was blown bad enough to 
> stop the car in mid race wouldn't it.
> 
> Manfred
> 
> Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
>> Hahahahahahahahaha, sorry, 240d, lost power, sounded funny. Anyway, sounds 
>> like a  blown head gasket to me Sent from my iPhone
>>> On Feb 3, 2017, at 11:26 AM, MG via Mercedes  wrote:
>>> 
>>> A friend has an 82 300D which suddenly lost power while going down the road 
>>> at 55-60. Blew white smoke and died. Supposedly no odd noises. Won't start 
>>> lots of white smoke coming out the tailpipe that smells like unburned 
>>> diesel. He did a compression check and says it's OK. I forgot to ask what 
>>> exactly it is. He has replaced all the fuel filters and bled the injectors. 
>>> Get fuel with no bubbles when the lines are opened while trying to start. 
>>> Says the fuse on the glow plugs is good.
>>> 
>>> What gets me is the sudden loss of power running down the road.
>>> Only thing I can think of is the timing chain but I would think that that 
>>> would mess up the valves and effect the compression. Can the injection pump 
>>> jump timing by itself without the valves timing jumping?
>>> 
>>> Any clues?
>>> 
>>> Manfred
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
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Re: [MBZ] Loss of power

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Unburnt diesel looks white or grey. Note how he noted that it smells like 
diesel. Coolant would smell sweet and you probably wouldn't get much of a cloud 
of it on cranking...
-Curt

  From: Randy Bennell via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: Randy Bennell <rbenn...@bennell.ca>
 Sent: Friday, February 3, 2017 12:54 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Loss of power
   
Wouldn't white smoke indicate coolant leaking into the exhaust?
Head gasket or a crack in the head that is leaking into the cylinders?
I assume he checked compression later after it was towed home and cooled 
off.
Maybe the leakage only occurs when it is hot?

RB

On 03/02/2017 11:26 AM, MG via Mercedes wrote:
> A friend has an 82 300D which suddenly lost power while going down the 
> road at 55-60. Blew white smoke and died. Supposedly no odd noises. 
> Won't start lots of white smoke coming out the tailpipe that smells 
> like unburned diesel. He did a compression check and says it's OK. I 
> forgot to ask what exactly it is. He has replaced all the fuel filters 
> and bled the injectors. Get fuel with no bubbles when the lines are 
> opened while trying to start. Says the fuse on the glow plugs is good.
>
> What gets me is the sudden loss of power running down the road.
> Only thing I can think of is the timing chain but I would think that 
> that would mess up the valves and effect the compression. Can the 
> injection pump jump timing by itself without the valves timing jumping?
>
> Any clues?
>
> Manfred
>
> ___
>


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Re: [MBZ] Loss of power

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

Wouldn't white smoke indicate coolant leaking into the exhaust?
Head gasket or a crack in the head that is leaking into the cylinders?
I assume he checked compression later after it was towed home and cooled 
off.

Maybe the leakage only occurs when it is hot?

RB

On 03/02/2017 11:26 AM, MG via Mercedes wrote:
A friend has an 82 300D which suddenly lost power while going down the 
road at 55-60. Blew white smoke and died. Supposedly no odd noises. 
Won't start lots of white smoke coming out the tailpipe that smells 
like unburned diesel. He did a compression check and says it's OK. I 
forgot to ask what exactly it is. He has replaced all the fuel filters 
and bled the injectors. Get fuel with no bubbles when the lines are 
opened while trying to start. Says the fuse on the glow plugs is good.


What gets me is the sudden loss of power running down the road.
Only thing I can think of is the timing chain but I would think that 
that would mess up the valves and effect the compression. Can the 
injection pump jump timing by itself without the valves timing jumping?


Any clues?

Manfred

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Re: [MBZ] Loss of power

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

What if the chain was broken? Compression test should show normal because the 
valves should shut as they get pounded by the pistons right?
Open the oil filler and ensure the cam turns?
-Curt

  From: MG via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: trainpain2...@aol.com
 Sent: Friday, February 3, 2017 12:39 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Loss of power
   
300D not 240.
That would affect the compression if the head gasket was blown 
bad enough to stop the car in mid race wouldn't it.

Manfred

Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
> Hahahahahahahahaha, sorry, 240d, lost power, sounded funny. Anyway, sounds 
> like a  blown head gasket to me 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Feb 3, 2017, at 11:26 AM, MG via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>
>> A friend has an 82 300D which suddenly lost power while going down the road 
>> at 55-60. Blew white smoke and died. Supposedly no odd noises. Won't start 
>> lots of white smoke coming out the tailpipe that smells like unburned 
>> diesel. He did a compression check and says it's OK. I forgot to ask what 
>> exactly it is. He has replaced all the fuel filters and bled the injectors. 
>> Get fuel with no bubbles when the lines are opened while trying to start. 
>> Says the fuse on the glow plugs is good.
>>
>> What gets me is the sudden loss of power running down the road.
>> Only thing I can think of is the timing chain but I would think that that 
>> would mess up the valves and effect the compression. Can the injection pump 
>> jump timing by itself without the valves timing jumping?
>>
>> Any clues?
>>
>> Manfred
>>
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Loss of power

[MG via Mercedes]

300D not 240.
That would affect the compression if the head gasket was blown 
bad enough to stop the car in mid race wouldn't it.


Manfred

Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
Hahahahahahahahaha, sorry, 240d, lost power, sounded funny. Anyway, sounds like a  blown head gasket to me 


Sent from my iPhone


On Feb 3, 2017, at 11:26 AM, MG via Mercedes  wrote:

A friend has an 82 300D which suddenly lost power while going down the road at 
55-60. Blew white smoke and died. Supposedly no odd noises. Won't start lots of 
white smoke coming out the tailpipe that smells like unburned diesel. He did a 
compression check and says it's OK. I forgot to ask what exactly it is. He has 
replaced all the fuel filters and bled the injectors. Get fuel with no bubbles 
when the lines are opened while trying to start. Says the fuse on the glow 
plugs is good.

What gets me is the sudden loss of power running down the road.
Only thing I can think of is the timing chain but I would think that that would 
mess up the valves and effect the compression. Can the injection pump jump 
timing by itself without the valves timing jumping?

Any clues?

Manfred

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Re: [MBZ] Loss of power

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

Hahahahahahahahaha, sorry, 240d, lost power, sounded funny. Anyway, sounds like 
a  blown head gasket to me 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 3, 2017, at 11:26 AM, MG via Mercedes  wrote:
> 
> A friend has an 82 300D which suddenly lost power while going down the road 
> at 55-60. Blew white smoke and died. Supposedly no odd noises. Won't start 
> lots of white smoke coming out the tailpipe that smells like unburned diesel. 
> He did a compression check and says it's OK. I forgot to ask what exactly it 
> is. He has replaced all the fuel filters and bled the injectors. Get fuel 
> with no bubbles when the lines are opened while trying to start. Says the 
> fuse on the glow plugs is good.
> 
> What gets me is the sudden loss of power running down the road.
> Only thing I can think of is the timing chain but I would think that that 
> would mess up the valves and effect the compression. Can the injection pump 
> jump timing by itself without the valves timing jumping?
> 
> Any clues?
> 
> Manfred
> 
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[MBZ] Loss of power

[MG via Mercedes]

A friend has an 82 300D which suddenly lost power while going 
down the road at 55-60. Blew white smoke and died. Supposedly no 
odd noises. Won't start lots of white smoke coming out the 
tailpipe that smells like unburned diesel. He did a compression 
check and says it's OK. I forgot to ask what exactly it is. He 
has replaced all the fuel filters and bled the injectors. Get 
fuel with no bubbles when the lines are opened while trying to 
start. Says the fuse on the glow plugs is good.


What gets me is the sudden loss of power running down the road.
Only thing I can think of is the timing chain but I would think 
that that would mess up the valves and effect the compression. 
Can the injection pump jump timing by itself without the valves 
timing jumping?


Any clues?

Manfred

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Re: [MBZ] Loss of power, shuddering upon cold takeoff (manual tranny)

[Zoltan Finks]

Manual tranny.

Brian

On 7/10/07, Craig McCluskey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 19:23:59 -0700 Zoltan Finks
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  This should be an easy one:
 
  When the 240D is not warmed up yet, and I try to take off on a hill, I
  get this shuddering and it loses power. I am thinking it feels like
  the clutch is slipping (but I thought clutch slippage was a more
  smooth loss of power and resultant engine revving).
 
  Could it be that the engine is not warmed up enough to produce
  sufficient power for the task and is thus sort of giving up?
 
  I think I have a good clutch in there. Can a cold clutch act like this?
 
  Anyway, I'll stop theorizing and let the question stand.

 Automatic transmission or stick-shift?


 Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Loss of power, shuddering upon cold takeoff (manual tranny)

[LarryT]

It's possible only 2 or 3 cylinders are firing - due to bad glow plugs - and 
once warmed up all  start cylinders working as they should.   But it;s a 
strange situation - especially the manny tran - that 4 cyl is pretty simple.

But the engine will die a long slow death gradually losing more and more 
power and making it more and more difficult to start until one day it won't 
start at all.  You could have some problems that are not noticable when 
warmed up.  But hopefully its only the GP's.

My 240D did that - started fine until one cold afternoon it would not start 
anymore - had 2 broken pistons  a bunch of broken rings.

Have you checked your valve adjustments lately?  Should be adjusted every 
12k-15k miles.  Out of adjustment valves can lead to a lossof power.

Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D)
www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts
Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil
PORSCHE POSTERS!  youroil.net
Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs
Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/
.
- Original Message - 
From: Zoltan Finks [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 10:23 PM
Subject: [MBZ] Loss of power, shuddering upon cold takeoff (manual tranny)


 This should be an easy one:

 When the 240D is not warmed up yet, and I try to take off on a hill, I
 get this shuddering and it loses power. I am thinking it feels like
 the clutch is slipping (but I thought clutch slippage was a more
 smooth loss of power and resultant engine revving).

 Could it be that the engine is not warmed up enough to produce
 sufficient power for the task and is thus sort of giving up?

 I think I have a good clutch in there. Can a cold clutch act like this?

 Anyway, I'll stop theorizing and let the question stand.

 Brian
 83 240D

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 -- 
 No virus found in this incoming message.
 Checked by AVG Free Edition.
 Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.2/891 - Release Date: 7/8/2007 
 6:32 PM

 


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Re: [MBZ] Loss of power, shuddering upon cold takeoff (manual tranny)

[Craig McCluskey]

  This should be an easy one:
 
  When the 240D is not warmed up yet, and I try to take off on a hill, I
  get this shuddering and it loses power. I am thinking it feels like
  the clutch is slipping (but I thought clutch slippage was a more
  smooth loss of power and resultant engine revving).
 
  Could it be that the engine is not warmed up enough to produce
  sufficient power for the task and is thus sort of giving up?
 
  I think I have a good clutch in there. Can a cold clutch act like
  this?
 
  Anyway, I'll stop theorizing and let the question stand.

No, it's not a slipping manual clutch.

Look at the things Larry suggested. Run some Diesel Purge. Do Italian
Tune-ups.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Loss of power, shuddering upon cold takeoff (manual tranny)

[Curt Raymond]

Don't be put off by Larry's tale of woe, he was telling that same story last 
year when the iron numbers were high when sampling my 190D.
I think I remember my 240D being more of a slug when it was first started up 
and I think it was more noticable than my 190D is.
Definately all three of my diesels have had less power when first started but I 
think where the 240D has the worst power to weight ratio of the 3 it was most 
noticable.

Still worth checking the glowplugs, they're not that hard to change.
Another thing you might test is run the block heater an hour before you plan to 
leave, does that make it better? It sure clears up the smoke on my 190D and 
makes it start easier. I should get around to fixing that one of these days...

-Curt

Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 10:53:06 -0600
From: Craig McCluskey [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Loss of power, shuddering upon cold takeoff (manual
 tranny)
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

  This should be an easy one:
 
  When the 240D is not warmed up yet, and I try to take off on a
 hill, I
  get this shuddering and it loses power. I am thinking it feels like
  the clutch is slipping (but I thought clutch slippage was a more
  smooth loss of power and resultant engine revving).
 
  Could it be that the engine is not warmed up enough to produce
  sufficient power for the task and is thus sort of giving up?
 
  I think I have a good clutch in there. Can a cold clutch act like
  this?
 
  Anyway, I'll stop theorizing and let the question stand.

No, it's not a slipping manual clutch.

Look at the things Larry suggested. Run some Diesel Purge. Do Italian
Tune-ups.


Craig

   
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Re: [MBZ] Loss of power, shuddering upon cold takeoff (manual tranny)

[Zoltan Finks]

Hmm. Yes, the valves were adjusted about 8 or 9 thousand miles ago
when the new (used) engine was installed. And the engine has
supposedly only about 120k mi. on it now. It is a nice peppy engine
and starts quite easily. Oh, and I replaced all the glow plugs about
2.5k mi. ago. BTW car is 83 240D.

Continue reading on and help me solve this mystery - it may be related
to these other conditions:

The only other problem that I can cite (and may be related?) is that
of a slight miss just after it starts. Every few seconds it misses.
This goes on for the first 10 or 15 seconds, and mostly clears up if I
give it a touch of throttle. And along with the missing is some
unhealthy sounding knocking and pinging. Oh, and every once in a while
when I start it, and these conditions are present, it smokes quite
noticeably. Then the smoke stops after 10 or 20 seconds. If I throttle
it at this time, it just makes more smoke. But this whole smoking
business is the exception not the norm.

Then when I do accelerate before the engine is operating temp., the
knocking and pinging are still there. Lately, even when completely
warm, it can be heard to ping under acceleration once in a while.

I did ask the list about this a while ago, and the options presented
included running some diesel purge, doing the Italian tuneup (I always
get hungry when I see that), and the more troubling option that I may
have bad injectors or cracked prechambers.

I have not yet run diesel purge. But I do think that I get something
approaching Italian on it on a fairly regular basis. That is if I
understand the magnitude of romping required to qualify as a Nunzio. I
understand that it is more about pushing it hard, say, up hills and
when completely warmed up. The heat and load on the engine are more
important than the mere revvs, yes? I do have an aversion to revving
the engine high. Wish the thing came with a tachometer and I knew the
redline. Yes, I know you supposedly cannot overrev a diesel except for
by downshifting.

Brian
83 240D


On 7/11/07, LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 It's possible only 2 or 3 cylinders are firing - due to bad glow plugs - and
 once warmed up all  start cylinders working as they should.   But it;s a
 strange situation - especially the manny tran - that 4 cyl is pretty simple.

 But the engine will die a long slow death gradually losing more and more
 power and making it more and more difficult to start until one day it won't
 start at all.  You could have some problems that are not noticable when
 warmed up.  But hopefully its only the GP's.

 My 240D did that - started fine until one cold afternoon it would not start
 anymore - had 2 broken pistons  a bunch of broken rings.

 Have you checked your valve adjustments lately?  Should be adjusted every
 12k-15k miles.  Out of adjustment valves can lead to a lossof power.

 Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D)
 www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts
 Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil
 PORSCHE POSTERS!  youroil.net
 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs
 Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/
 .
 - Original Message -
 From: Zoltan Finks [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 10:23 PM
 Subject: [MBZ] Loss of power, shuddering upon cold takeoff (manual tranny)


  This should be an easy one:
 
  When the 240D is not warmed up yet, and I try to take off on a hill, I
  get this shuddering and it loses power. I am thinking it feels like
  the clutch is slipping (but I thought clutch slippage was a more
  smooth loss of power and resultant engine revving).
 
  Could it be that the engine is not warmed up enough to produce
  sufficient power for the task and is thus sort of giving up?
 
  I think I have a good clutch in there. Can a cold clutch act like this?
 
  Anyway, I'll stop theorizing and let the question stand.
 
  Brian
  83 240D
 
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Re: [MBZ] Loss of power, shuddering upon cold takeoff (manual tranny)

[Curt Raymond]

Hey Brian,

My 240D would do a wierd shaking at idle sometimes once it was warmed up. I got 
a bottle of Diesel Kleen at the parts store, waited until I was low on fuel 
(like 1/4 tank) and put the whole thing in.
Thats way over the concentration they suggest but it did the trick. I also use 
Diesel Kleen to prefill the fuel filter when I change it. It smells alot like 
diesel purge and seems to work similarly.

-Curt

Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 11:53:24 -0700
From: Zoltan Finks [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Loss of power, shuddering upon cold takeoff (manual
 tranny)
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Message-ID:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Hmm. Yes, the valves were adjusted about 8 or 9 thousand miles ago
when the new (used) engine was installed. And the engine has
supposedly only about 120k mi. on it now. It is a nice peppy engine
and starts quite easily. Oh, and I replaced all the glow plugs about
2.5k mi. ago. BTW car is 83 240D.

Continue reading on and help me solve this mystery - it may be related
to these other conditions:

The only other problem that I can cite (and may be related?) is that
of a slight miss just after it starts. Every few seconds it misses.
This goes on for the first 10 or 15 seconds, and mostly clears up if I
give it a touch of throttle. And along with the missing is some
unhealthy sounding knocking and pinging. Oh, and every once in a while
when I start it, and these conditions are present, it smokes quite
noticeably. Then the smoke stops after 10 or 20 seconds. If I throttle
it at this time, it just makes more smoke. But this whole smoking
business is the exception not the norm.

Then when I do accelerate before the engine is operating temp., the
knocking and pinging are still there. Lately, even when completely
warm, it can be heard to ping under acceleration once in a while.

I did ask the list about this a while ago, and the options presented
included running some diesel purge, doing the Italian tuneup (I always
get hungry when I see that), and the more troubling option that I may
have bad injectors or cracked prechambers.

I have not yet run diesel purge. But I do think that I get something
approaching Italian on it on a fairly regular basis. That is if I
understand the magnitude of romping required to qualify as a Nunzio. I
understand that it is more about pushing it hard, say, up hills and
when completely warmed up. The heat and load on the engine are more
important than the mere revvs, yes? I do have an aversion to revving
the engine high. Wish the thing came with a tachometer and I knew the
redline. Yes, I know you supposedly cannot overrev a diesel except for
by downshifting.

Brian
83 240D

   
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Re: [MBZ] Loss of power, shuddering upon cold takeoff (manual tranny)

[LarryT]

Howdy -
You wrote every once in a while when I start it, and these conditions are 
present, it smokes quite
noticeably. Then the smoke stops after 10 or 20 seconds. If I throttle it at 
this time, it just makes more smoke. 

IMO this is the results of carbon buildup in the cylinder/prechamber area.
I believe the knocking and pinging you hear are also the results of carbon 
buildup.

You asked about Italian Tuneups - it;s more than what you list, although 
those are helpful -
Mostly it needs to be driven at interstate speed for *hours* at a time. 
Also, when my 91 300D had similar symptoms (heavy smoke at startup but very 
intermittant) I stopped it by using Ferox 200 (bought 3 bottles from a place 
found with Google) and ran it thru the fuel system as my wife drove it daily 
110Mi +  to and from work -  which solved the problem permanently.

Also - you wroteWish the thing came with a tachometer and I knew the
 redline. Yes, I know you supposedly 

You need to study the speedometer - there's small marks - one at around 
23mph which is the limit for the low gear.  More marks are easily seen - I 
for the first gear,  II for the second gear and so on.   The final is around 
54 IIRC, and engine will not go past this point in any gear except the 
highest you have.  My AT equipped 79 240D will not shiht above those points. 
I doubt yours will either.

You can try the suggestions above - but IMHO doing a compression test will 
generally tell you much about the engines condition.

I hope this helps -

Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D)
www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts
Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil
PORSCHE POSTERS!  youroil.net
Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs
Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/
.
- Original Message - 
From: Zoltan Finks [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 2:53 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Loss of power,shuddering upon cold takeoff (manual 
tranny)


 Hmm. Yes, the valves were adjusted about 8 or 9 thousand miles ago
 when the new (used) engine was installed. And the engine has
 supposedly only about 120k mi. on it now. It is a nice peppy engine
 and starts quite easily. Oh, and I replaced all the glow plugs about
 2.5k mi. ago. BTW car is 83 240D.

 Continue reading on and help me solve this mystery - it may be related
 to these other conditions:

 The only other problem that I can cite (and may be related?) is that
 of a slight miss just after it starts. Every few seconds it misses.
 This goes on for the first 10 or 15 seconds, and mostly clears up if I
 give it a touch of throttle. And along with the missing is some
 unhealthy sounding knocking and pinging. Oh, and every once in a while
 when I start it, and these conditions are present, it smokes quite
 noticeably. Then the smoke stops after 10 or 20 seconds. If I throttle
 it at this time, it just makes more smoke. But this whole smoking
 business is the exception not the norm.

 Then when I do accelerate before the engine is operating temp., the
 knocking and pinging are still there. Lately, even when completely
 warm, it can be heard to ping under acceleration once in a while.

 I did ask the list about this a while ago, and the options presented
 included running some diesel purge, doing the Italian tuneup (I always
 get hungry when I see that), and the more troubling option that I may
 have bad injectors or cracked prechambers.

 I have not yet run diesel purge. But I do think that I get something
 approaching Italian on it on a fairly regular basis. That is if I
 understand the magnitude of romping required to qualify as a Nunzio. I
 understand that it is more about pushing it hard, say, up hills and
 when completely warmed up. The heat and load on the engine are more
 important than the mere revvs, yes? I do have an aversion to revving
 the engine high. Wish the thing came with a tachometer and I knew the
 redline. Yes, I know you supposedly cannot overrev a diesel except for
 by downshifting.

 Brian
 83 240D


 On 7/11/07, LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 It's possible only 2 or 3 cylinders are firing - due to bad glow plugs - 
 and
 once warmed up all  start cylinders working as they should.   But it;s a
 strange situation - especially the manny tran - that 4 cyl is pretty 
 simple.

 But the engine will die a long slow death gradually losing more and more
 power and making it more and more difficult to start until one day it 
 won't
 start at all.  You could have some problems that are not noticable when
 warmed up.  But hopefully its only the GP's.

 My 240D did that - started fine until one cold afternoon it would not 
 start
 anymore - had 2 broken pistons  a bunch of broken rings.

 Have you checked your valve adjustments lately?  Should be adjusted every
 12k-15k miles.  Out of adjustment valves can lead to a lossof power.

 Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D)
 www.youroil.net

Re: [MBZ] Loss of power, shuddering upon cold takeoff (manual tranny)

[Zoltan Finks]

Actually we have driven that car on two long trips: one from AZ to
Minnesota (with two people and luggage) and from Minnesota to WA (with
one person, one 80lb. dog, and much cargo). Both trips required much
pedal-to-floor time to make it.

I remembered this after I posted.

So I would think that this would fill the requirement to clean things out?

Brian
83 240D

Larry wrote:
You asked about Italian Tuneups - it;s more than what you list, although
those are helpful -
Mostly it needs to be driven at interstate speed for *hours* at a time.

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Re: [MBZ] Loss of power, shuddering upon cold takeoff (manual tranny)

[Marshall Booth]

Zoltan Finks wrote:
 This should be an easy one:
 
 When the 240D is not warmed up yet, and I try to take off on a hill, I
 get this shuddering and it loses power. I am thinking it feels like
 the clutch is slipping (but I thought clutch slippage was a more
 smooth loss of power and resultant engine revving).
 
 Could it be that the engine is not warmed up enough to produce
 sufficient power for the task and is thus sort of giving up?
 
 I think I have a good clutch in there. Can a cold clutch act like this?
 
 Anyway, I'll stop theorizing and let the question stand.

The engine being cold exaggerates ANY aspect of the system that isn't 
operating properly. If the injector spray pattern or pressure isn't 
within the tolerable range, both power and idle smoothness will be 
degraded. This may not be evident when the engine is warmed up. The 
clutch may not be in good condition (which may be much exaggerated when 
cold). If the damper to the injection pump linkage isn't present or has 
worn out there can be a shudder when starting out, especially when cold.

Marshall
-- 
Marshall Booth Ph.D.
Ass't Prof. (ret.)
Univ of Pittsburgh School of Medicine
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [MBZ] Loss of power, shuddering upon cold takeoff (manual tranny)

[Marshall Booth]

LarryT wrote:
 Howdy -
 You wrote every once in a while when I start it, and these conditions are 
 present, it smokes quite
 noticeably. Then the smoke stops after 10 or 20 seconds. If I throttle it at 
 this time, it just makes more smoke. 

Much more likely to be injectors out of calibration (considering the 
recent long trips) or even leaky delivery valve rather than carbon 
accumulation. The problem is MUCH more pronounced when the engine is cold.

 IMO this is the results of carbon buildup in the cylinder/prechamber area.
 I believe the knocking and pinging you hear are also the results of carbon 
 buildup.

Marshall
-- 
Marshall Booth Ph.D.
Ass't Prof. (ret.)
Univ of Pittsburgh School of Medicine
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [MBZ] Loss of power, shuddering upon cold takeoff (manual tranny)

[Marshall Booth]

Marshall Booth wrote:

 
 The engine being cold exaggerates ANY aspect of the system that isn't 
 operating properly. If the injector spray pattern or pressure isn't 
 within the tolerable range, both power and idle smoothness will be 
 degraded. This may not be evident when the engine is warmed up. The 
 clutch may not be in good condition (which may be much exaggerated when 
 cold). If the damper to the injection pump linkage isn't present or has 
 worn out there can be a shudder when starting out, especially when cold.
 
 Marshall

When were valves adjusted?!!! Tight valve(s) can cause what you describe.

Marshall
-- 
Marshall Booth Ph.D.
Ass't Prof. (ret.)
Univ of Pittsburgh School of Medicine
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [MBZ] Loss of power, shuddering upon cold takeoff (manual tranny)

[Zoltan Finks]

Valves were adjusted (I'm trusing the word of the indy who installed
the engine) about 8 or 9 k mi. ago. He said he adjusts valves as part
of an engine install. Seems reasonable.

Brian
83 240D

On 7/11/07, Marshall Booth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Marshall Booth wrote:

 
  The engine being cold exaggerates ANY aspect of the system that isn't
  operating properly. If the injector spray pattern or pressure isn't
  within the tolerable range, both power and idle smoothness will be
  degraded. This may not be evident when the engine is warmed up. The
  clutch may not be in good condition (which may be much exaggerated when
  cold). If the damper to the injection pump linkage isn't present or has
  worn out there can be a shudder when starting out, especially when cold.
 
  Marshall

 When were valves adjusted?!!! Tight valve(s) can cause what you describe.

 Marshall
 --
 Marshall Booth Ph.D.
 Ass't Prof. (ret.)
 Univ of Pittsburgh School of Medicine
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [MBZ] Loss of power, shuddering upon cold takeoff (manual tranny)

[Craig McCluskey]

On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 19:23:59 -0700 Zoltan Finks
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 This should be an easy one:
 
 When the 240D is not warmed up yet, and I try to take off on a hill, I
 get this shuddering and it loses power. I am thinking it feels like
 the clutch is slipping (but I thought clutch slippage was a more
 smooth loss of power and resultant engine revving).
 
 Could it be that the engine is not warmed up enough to produce
 sufficient power for the task and is thus sort of giving up?
 
 I think I have a good clutch in there. Can a cold clutch act like this?
 
 Anyway, I'll stop theorizing and let the question stand.

Automatic transmission or stick-shift?


Craig

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