Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
They should and do if they were set up right, with the right equipment and the battery back-up capabilities. Scott Ritchey via Mercedes wrote: Reminds me of a TV mystery where hospital patients died mysteriously day after day at about the same time. It turned out that he cleanin lady unplugged ventilators temporarily so she could plug in the vacuum. On a serious note, I have the important loads (well pump, fridge etc.) on a sub-panel that's connected to an automatic transfer switch. The LP-fueled generator has logic to fire itself up and command the transfer switch. Seems like solar systems should work like that too. -Original Message- From: Dan> Penoff via Mercedes NFPA 110 requirement, especially for hospitals or any Level 1 life safety facility. Red outlets and covers designate a branch circuit connected to backup power source(s). Gotta make sure Grandpa’s respirator is plugged in to one of these…. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
Reminds me of a TV mystery where hospital patients died mysteriously day after day at about the same time. It turned out that he cleanin lady unplugged ventilators temporarily so she could plug in the vacuum. On a serious note, I have the important loads (well pump, fridge etc.) on a sub-panel that's connected to an automatic transfer switch. The LP-fueled generator has logic to fire itself up and command the transfer switch. Seems like solar systems should work like that too. > -Original Message- > From: Dan> Penoff via Mercedes > > NFPA 110 requirement, especially for hospitals or any Level 1 life safety > facility. > Red outlets and covers designate a branch circuit connected to backup power > source(s). Gotta make sure Grandpa’s respirator is plugged in to one of > these…. > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
On Fri, 18 Oct 2019 11:52:33 -0700 Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes wrote: > Yes but actually all ventilators have built in battery backup so no one > pays much attention until the power actually fails and then they > prioritize which machines most need the red outlets. > > We had a weird thing on backup last year where the hospital is fed by > three separate lines so getting them all shut off was an exercise no > one had done recently and it took awhile to get the generators online. > They upped the drill frequency after that. I take it, Karl, you work in a hospital. What do you do there? Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
Yes but actually all ventilators have built in battery backup so no one pays much attention until the power actually fails and then they prioritize which machines most need the red outlets. We had a weird thing on backup last year where the hospital is fed by three separate lines so getting them all shut off was an exercise no one had done recently and it took awhile to get the generators online. They upped the drill frequency after that. On Fri, Oct 18, 2019, 11:17 AM Dan Penoff via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > NFPA 110 requirement, especially for hospitals or any Level 1 life safety > facility. Red outlets and covers designate a branch circuit connected to > backup power source(s). Gotta make sure Grandpa’s respirator is plugged in > to one of these…. > > -D > > > > On Oct 18, 2019, at 1:22 PM, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > > > Hospitals always have red outlets connected to backup power. Regular > color > > outlets are not backed up. That would be a good way to do it if starting > > from scratch at home. > > > > On Fri, Oct 18, 2019, 8:39 AM Dan Penoff via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> > > wrote: > > > >> I agree. I read through a portion of the manual and I was a bit > confused. > >> It appears that they’re using the inverter to feed a branch circuit in > the > >> house by plugging into it with the output of the inverter. > >> > >> Not only are the issues previously mentioned a concern, but you’re also > >> limited to the available output of the inverter on that circuit. > >> > >> Seems like sort of a kludge. > >> > >> -D > >> > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
NFPA 110 requirement, especially for hospitals or any Level 1 life safety facility. Red outlets and covers designate a branch circuit connected to backup power source(s). Gotta make sure Grandpa’s respirator is plugged in to one of these…. -D > On Oct 18, 2019, at 1:22 PM, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes > wrote: > > Hospitals always have red outlets connected to backup power. Regular color > outlets are not backed up. That would be a good way to do it if starting > from scratch at home. > > On Fri, Oct 18, 2019, 8:39 AM Dan Penoff via Mercedes > wrote: > >> I agree. I read through a portion of the manual and I was a bit confused. >> It appears that they’re using the inverter to feed a branch circuit in the >> house by plugging into it with the output of the inverter. >> >> Not only are the issues previously mentioned a concern, but you’re also >> limited to the available output of the inverter on that circuit. >> >> Seems like sort of a kludge. >> >> -D >> ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
On Fri, 18 Oct 2019 10:22:06 -0700 Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes wrote: > Hospitals always have red outlets connected to backup power. Regular > color outlets are not backed up. That would be a good way to do it if > starting from scratch at home. Clever idea! In Los Alamos, we had a manual transfer switch right after the meter: Flip the utility breaker off, move a slide, flip the generator breaker on. It did the whole house. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
A guy in chicago was bypassing the meter fairly recently. I think he got prison time. He makes/made pet treats, the the amount of juice was probably substantial. They claimed $2mill, and that he tried to bribe a witness. Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote on 10/18/19 12:34 PM: Could be like the guy I worked for decades ago that was literally using jumper cables to bypass his meter - after they caught him and charged him many thousands of dollars for estimated bills they put in a huge metal meter box with the little window in it so the meter reader could just see the front of the meter. Jerk. He thought he was smarter than everyone else. Tried the same sort of goofy stuff with the IRS until they walked in one day and shut his business down and attached everything. Some of my buddies still worked there and the IRS agents showed up, told everyone to stand up and walk to the door and then installed padlocks on all the doors. -D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
Could be like the guy I worked for decades ago that was literally using jumper cables to bypass his meter - after they caught him and charged him many thousands of dollars for estimated bills they put in a huge metal meter box with the little window in it so the meter reader could just see the front of the meter. Jerk. He thought he was smarter than everyone else. Tried the same sort of goofy stuff with the IRS until they walked in one day and shut his business down and attached everything. Some of my buddies still worked there and the IRS agents showed up, told everyone to stand up and walk to the door and then installed padlocks on all the doors. -D > On Oct 18, 2019, at 1:25 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes > wrote: > > Most of those would charge you for the electricity you take out, and charge > you again for the electricity you put in. > > Those are good at catching DIY repairs. "Oh, you're doing your own work? > We'll just red tag and disconnect you until the county inspects it." If you > pull the meter to shut off the power, or have an insulated pole that can flip > the switch at the transformer, they dispatch repair service when the meter > goes dead. > Mitch. > >> On October 18, 2019 at 12:46 PM OK Don via Mercedes >> wrote: >> >> >> No meter readers here - they all report back to the mothership for >> automated reading. >> > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
Most of those would charge you for the electricity you take out, and charge you again for the electricity you put in. Those are good at catching DIY repairs. "Oh, you're doing your own work? We'll just red tag and disconnect you until the county inspects it." If you pull the meter to shut off the power, or have an insulated pole that can flip the switch at the transformer, they dispatch repair service when the meter goes dead. Mitch. > On October 18, 2019 at 12:46 PM OK Don via Mercedes > wrote: > > > No meter readers here - they all report back to the mothership for > automated reading. > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
Yeah, I havent read through it all. I would think you could just shut off the mains somehow automagically if the power fails and trip over to batteries or a generator. My uncle was a hog farmer and his gen set did that. But for a long time it was run out and fire up the Farmall and the pto generator. Hospitals always have red outlets connected to backup power. Regular color outlets are not backed up. That would be a good way to do it if starting from scratch at home. On Fri, Oct 18, 2019, 8:39 AM Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote: > I agree. I read through a portion of the manual and I was a bit confused. > It appears that they’re using the inverter to feed a branch circuit in the > house by plugging into it with the output of the inverter. > > Not only are the issues previously mentioned a concern, but you’re also > limited to the available output of the inverter on that circuit. > > Seems like sort of a kludge. > > -D > > > On Oct 18, 2019, at 10:35 AM, MG via Mercedes > wrote: > > > > From what I have read of the manual, this thing plugs into an outlet on > one of the circuits of your breaker panel and then feeds back into the > panel. The bad part of that is when the power goes out and you have the > battery backup off grid controller and inverter installed when the power > goes out then you have to plug anything that you want running into the > inverter. When the power comes back on the inverter goes off line and > nothing plugged into will work so everything has to be plugged back into > the outlets that they were originally in. > > > > That said, If the power company meter readers see the solar setup they > will probably report that and the utility company will have some questions > for you and may even disconnect your electricity from the Grid till you are > in compliance with their regulations and have the system inspected. Could > be a whole bunch of problems going all the way back to the building > inspectors office possibly including fines for non inspection etc. > > > > Just a thought. > > > > However for a cabin in the woods with no grid power I can see it as a > great idea. > > > > > > Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote: > >> Karl - I like the idea of this one: all the equipment is on the house > side > >> of the meter, so electric company only sees a reduction in your usage. > I > >> did not study their claimed ROI, so economics aside... > >> If a home-owner installed this DIY or acted as his own general > contractor, > >> and assuming no HOA interference, would someone like Dan in FL be able > to > >> do this without consequence? > >> - > >> Max > >> Charleston SC > >> On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 10:44 PM Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes < > >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > >>> Seems like this thing is able to keep the net to zero, so maybe it > would > >>> limit the panels to whatever you are using and not drop out just > because > >>> the grid is down. > >>> > >>> > >>> > https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/plxdevices/legion-solar-4-permission-free-energy-and-storage > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> ___ > >> http://www.okiebenz.com > >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
No meter readers here - they all report back to the mothership for automated reading. On Fri, Oct 18, 2019 at 9:36 AM MG via Mercedes wrote: > > That said, If the power company meter readers see > the solar setup they will probably report that and > the utility company will have some questions for > you and may even disconnect your electricity from > the Grid till you are in compliance with their > regulations and have the system inspected. > -- OK Don "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect." Mark Twain "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves." WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers* 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
I agree. I read through a portion of the manual and I was a bit confused. It appears that they’re using the inverter to feed a branch circuit in the house by plugging into it with the output of the inverter. Not only are the issues previously mentioned a concern, but you’re also limited to the available output of the inverter on that circuit. Seems like sort of a kludge. -D > On Oct 18, 2019, at 10:35 AM, MG via Mercedes wrote: > > From what I have read of the manual, this thing plugs into an outlet on one > of the circuits of your breaker panel and then feeds back into the panel. The > bad part of that is when the power goes out and you have the battery backup > off grid controller and inverter installed when the power goes out then you > have to plug anything that you want running into the inverter. When the > power comes back on the inverter goes off line and nothing plugged into will > work so everything has to be plugged back into the outlets that they were > originally in. > > That said, If the power company meter readers see the solar setup they will > probably report that and the utility company will have some questions for you > and may even disconnect your electricity from the Grid till you are in > compliance with their regulations and have the system inspected. Could be a > whole bunch of problems going all the way back to the building inspectors > office possibly including fines for non inspection etc. > > Just a thought. > > However for a cabin in the woods with no grid power I can see it as a great > idea. > > > Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote: >> Karl - I like the idea of this one: all the equipment is on the house side >> of the meter, so electric company only sees a reduction in your usage. I >> did not study their claimed ROI, so economics aside... >> If a home-owner installed this DIY or acted as his own general contractor, >> and assuming no HOA interference, would someone like Dan in FL be able to >> do this without consequence? >> - >> Max >> Charleston SC >> On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 10:44 PM Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes < >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: >>> Seems like this thing is able to keep the net to zero, so maybe it would >>> limit the panels to whatever you are using and not drop out just because >>> the grid is down. >>> >>> >>> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/plxdevices/legion-solar-4-permission-free-energy-and-storage >>> >>> >>> >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
From what I have read of the manual, this thing plugs into an outlet on one of the circuits of your breaker panel and then feeds back into the panel. The bad part of that is when the power goes out and you have the battery backup off grid controller and inverter installed when the power goes out then you have to plug anything that you want running into the inverter. When the power comes back on the inverter goes off line and nothing plugged into will work so everything has to be plugged back into the outlets that they were originally in. That said, If the power company meter readers see the solar setup they will probably report that and the utility company will have some questions for you and may even disconnect your electricity from the Grid till you are in compliance with their regulations and have the system inspected. Could be a whole bunch of problems going all the way back to the building inspectors office possibly including fines for non inspection etc. Just a thought. However for a cabin in the woods with no grid power I can see it as a great idea. Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote: Karl - I like the idea of this one: all the equipment is on the house side of the meter, so electric company only sees a reduction in your usage. I did not study their claimed ROI, so economics aside... If a home-owner installed this DIY or acted as his own general contractor, and assuming no HOA interference, would someone like Dan in FL be able to do this without consequence? - Max Charleston SC On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 10:44 PM Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: Seems like this thing is able to keep the net to zero, so maybe it would limit the panels to whatever you are using and not drop out just because the grid is down. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/plxdevices/legion-solar-4-permission-free-energy-and-storage ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
So the real downside would be no grant / tax incentives to help offset the cost and make the ROI more attractive. Sounds more like market economics, which is a good thing. We'll find out if there is a market for this and answer the age old question about solar vs. fossil fuels. - Max Charleston SC On Fri, Oct 18, 2019 at 7:15 AM Dan Penoff via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > Yes. Florida law mandates that HOAs cannot dictate anything about > alternative energy installations, such as solar. There are city and county > ordinances that come into play for something like a wind generator, but > HOAs have no say in solar installations. They often “suggest” things as far > as trying to persuade where panels might be installed so as to limit the > visual effects, but that’s nothing more than “theater” as they are > prohibited from dictating anything in this regard. > > The community standards in my neighborhood have an entry saying something > about requesting owners to try and place solar panels on the side or back > portions of their roofs, but it’s nothing more than a suggestion. You could > put them on the front of your house and there’s nothing they can do about > it. > > -D > > > > On Oct 18, 2019, at 12:06 AM, fmiser via Mercedes > wrote: > > > >> Meade wrote: > > > >> If a home-owner installed this DIY or acted as his own general > >> contractor, and assuming no HOA interference, would someone like > >> Dan in FL be able to do this without consequence? > > > > I would say "yes". It is a solar "generator" - right? > > > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
Yes. Florida law mandates that HOAs cannot dictate anything about alternative energy installations, such as solar. There are city and county ordinances that come into play for something like a wind generator, but HOAs have no say in solar installations. They often “suggest” things as far as trying to persuade where panels might be installed so as to limit the visual effects, but that’s nothing more than “theater” as they are prohibited from dictating anything in this regard. The community standards in my neighborhood have an entry saying something about requesting owners to try and place solar panels on the side or back portions of their roofs, but it’s nothing more than a suggestion. You could put them on the front of your house and there’s nothing they can do about it. -D > On Oct 18, 2019, at 12:06 AM, fmiser via Mercedes > wrote: > >> Meade wrote: > >> If a home-owner installed this DIY or acted as his own general >> contractor, and assuming no HOA interference, would someone like >> Dan in FL be able to do this without consequence? > > I would say "yes". It is a solar "generator" - right? > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
> Meade wrote: > If a home-owner installed this DIY or acted as his own general > contractor, and assuming no HOA interference, would someone like > Dan in FL be able to do this without consequence? I would say "yes". It is a solar "generator" - right? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
Karl - I like the idea of this one: all the equipment is on the house side of the meter, so electric company only sees a reduction in your usage. I did not study their claimed ROI, so economics aside... If a home-owner installed this DIY or acted as his own general contractor, and assuming no HOA interference, would someone like Dan in FL be able to do this without consequence? - Max Charleston SC On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 10:44 PM Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > Seems like this thing is able to keep the net to zero, so maybe it would > limit the panels to whatever you are using and not drop out just because > the grid is down. > > > https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/plxdevices/legion-solar-4-permission-free-energy-and-storage > > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
Seems like this thing is able to keep the net to zero, so maybe it would limit the panels to whatever you are using and not drop out just because the grid is down. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/plxdevices/legion-solar-4-permission-free-energy-and-storage On Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 7:45 PM Kevin Kraly via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
Yeah, I’m sure that solar has come into play as well as wind power in the villages. However, the time of the year when they really need the electrons is when there’s no sun, too. As many of them are on or near the banks of major rivers, I can see the hydro thing if they can make it work. I hated going to those places, almost as much as I hated doing work on the reservations in the Lower 48. It was really depressing. -D > On Oct 13, 2019, at 8:07 PM, Clay Monroe via Mercedes > wrote: > > Villages run on #2, but are now trying to break away with more of the > renewables. Micro hydro seems the most successful in that way. For the > larger venues, the Nat Gas blasters are spitting out electrons to pair with > small hydro along the Railbelt. Took me a while to figure out wtf that was > about. It is the part of AK that has trains. > > > clay monroe > >> I turned my computer upside down and shook it, but the bookmark for what I'm >> looking for didn't fall out. > > > >> On Oct 12, 2019, at 11:24 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes >> wrote: >> >> At $0.34/KwH it wouldn’t make a lot of sense to use the grid if you could >> avoid it. Unfortunately, most of the electricity in AK is generated with >> diesel, making it really, really expensive. Add to that the cost of the >> infrastructure and you can see why power is easily 4x what it costs in the >> lower 48. >> >> As a former generator guy, I can tell you that someone with my former skill >> set could make a very, very good living in AK, and I knew a number of people >> who did. Nearly every one of the indigenous people’s villages are powered >> with diesel. >> >> -D >> >> >>> On Oct 12, 2019, at 2:55 PM, Clay Monroe via Mercedes >>> wrote: >>> >>> The local installer who was part of the presentation only does on grid >>> stuff, so was not all that versed with off grid system. The main presenter >>> was all engineering and knowledge, as well as a user of his own PV system. >>> He made note that there is, or upcoming tech to allow you to sever the >>> system from the grid with a magical box. Much like the back up generators >>> for commercial/industrial operations (hospitals) but cost is an issue. >>> >>> Net metering was a cost waste, as he is capable of pushing electrons back >>> onto the grid when he had fully met his own needs. The cost to suck down >>> an electron runs around $0.34 KwH, and his electrons are put on the grid at >>> $0.03. The big savings seems to be you can harvest your PV power for >>> “free” and save the high cost of grid power better in ANC than the paltry >>> return from a place like SEA, where power is all of $0.09 KwH >>> >>> >>> clay >>> On Oct 12, 2019, at 4:16 AM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes wrote: Most don't understand that the TRUE name of 'net zero' metering is just an accurate description of what you get from your expensive solar array when the grid is down. :-) What doesn't seem to exist are the electronics to push back to the grid only when the grid's on, AND your storage batteries are full, and that will run your house from batteries while the grid is down. You can either go full off-grid solar, with batteries, OR on-grid solar, sans batteries; not both. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> http://www.okiebenz.com >>> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >>> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >>> >> >> >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
Villages run on #2, but are now trying to break away with more of the renewables. Micro hydro seems the most successful in that way. For the larger venues, the Nat Gas blasters are spitting out electrons to pair with small hydro along the Railbelt. Took me a while to figure out wtf that was about. It is the part of AK that has trains. clay monroe > I turned my computer upside down and shook it, but the bookmark for what I'm > looking for didn't fall out. > On Oct 12, 2019, at 11:24 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes > wrote: > > At $0.34/KwH it wouldn’t make a lot of sense to use the grid if you could > avoid it. Unfortunately, most of the electricity in AK is generated with > diesel, making it really, really expensive. Add to that the cost of the > infrastructure and you can see why power is easily 4x what it costs in the > lower 48. > > As a former generator guy, I can tell you that someone with my former skill > set could make a very, very good living in AK, and I knew a number of people > who did. Nearly every one of the indigenous people’s villages are powered > with diesel. > > -D > > >> On Oct 12, 2019, at 2:55 PM, Clay Monroe via Mercedes >> wrote: >> >> The local installer who was part of the presentation only does on grid >> stuff, so was not all that versed with off grid system. The main presenter >> was all engineering and knowledge, as well as a user of his own PV system. >> He made note that there is, or upcoming tech to allow you to sever the >> system from the grid with a magical box. Much like the back up generators >> for commercial/industrial operations (hospitals) but cost is an issue. >> >> Net metering was a cost waste, as he is capable of pushing electrons back >> onto the grid when he had fully met his own needs. The cost to suck down an >> electron runs around $0.34 KwH, and his electrons are put on the grid at >> $0.03. The big savings seems to be you can harvest your PV power for “free” >> and save the high cost of grid power better in ANC than the paltry return >> from a place like SEA, where power is all of $0.09 KwH >> >> >> clay >> >>> On Oct 12, 2019, at 4:16 AM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes >>> wrote: >>> >>> Most don't understand that the TRUE name of 'net zero' metering is >>> just an accurate description of what you get from your expensive solar >>> array when the grid is down. :-) >>> >>> What doesn't seem to exist are the electronics to push back to the grid >>> only when the grid's on, AND your storage batteries are full, and that will >>> run your house from batteries while the grid is down. You can either go >>> full off-grid solar, with batteries, OR on-grid solar, sans batteries; not >>> both. >>> >>> -- Jim >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> http://www.okiebenz.com >>> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >>> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >>> >> >> >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
> a place like SEA, where power is all of $0.09 KwH I believe I'm paying 5.5 cents per. WA is nearly the only place where you CAN be somewhat enviro-smug using an electric car. (Very small proportion of fossil fuel in the grid.) -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
> Jim wrote: > What doesn't seem to exist are the electronics to push back to > the grid only when the grid's on, AND your storage batteries are > full, and that will run your house from batteries while the grid > is down. You can either go full off-grid solar, with batteries, > OR on-grid solar, sans batteries; not both. I think Outback Power Radian series inverters can do that. Nice gear. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
At $0.34/KwH it wouldn’t make a lot of sense to use the grid if you could avoid it. Unfortunately, most of the electricity in AK is generated with diesel, making it really, really expensive. Add to that the cost of the infrastructure and you can see why power is easily 4x what it costs in the lower 48. As a former generator guy, I can tell you that someone with my former skill set could make a very, very good living in AK, and I knew a number of people who did. Nearly every one of the indigenous people’s villages are powered with diesel. -D > On Oct 12, 2019, at 2:55 PM, Clay Monroe via Mercedes > wrote: > > The local installer who was part of the presentation only does on grid stuff, > so was not all that versed with off grid system. The main presenter was all > engineering and knowledge, as well as a user of his own PV system. He made > note that there is, or upcoming tech to allow you to sever the system from > the grid with a magical box. Much like the back up generators for > commercial/industrial operations (hospitals) but cost is an issue. > > Net metering was a cost waste, as he is capable of pushing electrons back > onto the grid when he had fully met his own needs. The cost to suck down an > electron runs around $0.34 KwH, and his electrons are put on the grid at > $0.03. The big savings seems to be you can harvest your PV power for “free” > and save the high cost of grid power better in ANC than the paltry return > from a place like SEA, where power is all of $0.09 KwH > > > clay > >> On Oct 12, 2019, at 4:16 AM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes >> wrote: >> >> Most don't understand that the TRUE name of 'net zero' metering is >> just an accurate description of what you get from your expensive solar >> array when the grid is down. :-) >> >> What doesn't seem to exist are the electronics to push back to the grid >> only when the grid's on, AND your storage batteries are full, and that will >> run your house from batteries while the grid is down. You can either go >> full off-grid solar, with batteries, OR on-grid solar, sans batteries; not >> both. >> >> -- Jim >> >> >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
Lotsa people I knew are off grid. Take a vacation to HI, Stay in Kona or Kau, and hang out at the grocery store at Oceanview and talk to the locals. Oceanview Estates, and many places in Kau or off grid, despite the presence of HELCO wind power since about 1980. There are also offgrid folks around the Hamakua coast. Clay Monroe via Mercedes wrote on 10/12/19 1:55 PM: The local installer who was part of the presentation only does on grid stuff, so was not all that versed with off grid system. The main presenter was all engineering and knowledge, as well as a user of his own PV system. He made note that there is, or upcoming tech to allow you to sever the system from the grid with a magical box. Much like the back up generators for commercial/industrial operations (hospitals) but cost is an issue. Net metering was a cost waste, as he is capable of pushing electrons back onto the grid when he had fully met his own needs. The cost to suck down an electron runs around $0.34 KwH, and his electrons are put on the grid at $0.03. The big savings seems to be you can harvest your PV power for “free” and save the high cost of grid power better in ANC than the paltry return from a place like SEA, where power is all of $0.09 KwH clay ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
The local installer who was part of the presentation only does on grid stuff, so was not all that versed with off grid system. The main presenter was all engineering and knowledge, as well as a user of his own PV system. He made note that there is, or upcoming tech to allow you to sever the system from the grid with a magical box. Much like the back up generators for commercial/industrial operations (hospitals) but cost is an issue. Net metering was a cost waste, as he is capable of pushing electrons back onto the grid when he had fully met his own needs. The cost to suck down an electron runs around $0.34 KwH, and his electrons are put on the grid at $0.03. The big savings seems to be you can harvest your PV power for “free” and save the high cost of grid power better in ANC than the paltry return from a place like SEA, where power is all of $0.09 KwH clay > On Oct 12, 2019, at 4:16 AM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes > wrote: > > Most don't understand that the TRUE name of 'net zero' metering is > just an accurate description of what you get from your expensive solar > array when the grid is down. :-) > > What doesn't seem to exist are the electronics to push back to the grid > only when the grid's on, AND your storage batteries are full, and that will > run your house from batteries while the grid is down. You can either go > full off-grid solar, with batteries, OR on-grid solar, sans batteries; not > both. > > -- Jim > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
What game? -D > On Oct 12, 2019, at 11:27 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes > wrote: > > Were you able to be at the game? > > Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote on 10/12/19 10:11 AM: >> Exactly. Payback is decades away, if that. >> >> -D >> >> ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
Were you able to be at the game? Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote on 10/12/19 10:11 AM: Exactly. Payback is decades away, if that. -D On Oct 12, 2019, at 11:09 AM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes wrote: $1/W, looks like. Plus batteries. Plus PV array. Not for the faint of heart. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
Exactly. Payback is decades away, if that. -D > On Oct 12, 2019, at 11:09 AM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes > wrote: > > $1/W, looks like. Plus batteries. Plus PV array. Not for the faint of > heart. > > -- Jim > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
$1/W, looks like. Plus batteries. Plus PV array. Not for the faint of heart. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
That’s an option - I’ve seen the setup in a couple of places. Utility goes down, you switch over to solar/batteries and remain that way until the utility returns. The only way you’re allowed to remain “live” is if you have batteries or a secondary power source, such as a generator. The big issue is the cost and maintenance of the batteries. If you go lead acid there’s issues with space, storage and maintenance, as well as a limited life. The alternative is a sealed lithium ion system like the Tesla batteries, but they’re very expensive and also have a fixed life that will require replacing them down the road at some point. From what I’ve seen, when people are presented with the option the don’t pursue it due to the additional cost. -D > On Oct 12, 2019, at 8:16 AM, Jim Cathey wrote: > > Most don't understand that the TRUE name of 'net zero' metering is > just an accurate description of what you get from your expensive solar > array when the grid is down. :-) > > What doesn't seem to exist are the electronics to push back to the grid > only when the grid's on, AND your storage batteries are full, and that will > run your house from batteries while the grid is down. You can either go > full off-grid solar, with batteries, OR on-grid solar, sans batteries; not > both. > > -- Jim > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
> On October 12, 2019 at 8:16 AM Jim Cathey via Mercedes > wrote: > What doesn't seem to exist are the electronics to push back to the grid > only when the grid's on, AND your storage batteries are full, and that will > run your house from batteries while the grid is down. http://outbackpower.com/products/true-hybrid-energy-system/skybox ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
Most don't understand that the TRUE name of 'net zero' metering is just an accurate description of what you get from your expensive solar array when the grid is down. :-) What doesn't seem to exist are the electronics to push back to the grid only when the grid's on, AND your storage batteries are full, and that will run your house from batteries while the grid is down. You can either go full off-grid solar, with batteries, OR on-grid solar, sans batteries; not both. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
This is where a lot of people get caught up with solar down here… They don’t understand the concept of grid-tie systems and when the utility goes down it takes them down, too (if they don’t have battery backup.) So when the next hurricane blows through and power goes down, even though you’ve got that roof full of solar panels, you go dark, too. Surprise! -D > On Oct 12, 2019, at 6:19 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes > wrote: > > >> On October 12, 2019 at 12:09 AM Clay Monroe via Mercedes >> wrote: >> >> I was today old when I found out that residential solar hooked to the grid >> requires that the whole home lose power when the grid goes down. Something >> the folks in Kalifornia are learning to their dismay. > > Yes, there are grid-tie systems (which must go down within xx seconds of > power failure for safety reasons) and battery/inverter systems meant to run > off grid. Off-grid with a bunch of expensive batteries with 7-10 year > lifespans gets expensive. And you still need a backup generator for extended > wind/sunlight lulls. > Many of SMA/Sunny Boy's grid-tie inverters can provide 2kW on a separate > circuit, so if you are home you can at least run your furnace and > refrigerator while the sun is shining. > > Mitch. > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
> On October 12, 2019 at 12:09 AM Clay Monroe via Mercedes > wrote: > > I was today old when I found out that residential solar hooked to the grid > requires that the whole home lose power when the grid goes down. Something > the folks in Kalifornia are learning to their dismay. Yes, there are grid-tie systems (which must go down within xx seconds of power failure for safety reasons) and battery/inverter systems meant to run off grid. Off-grid with a bunch of expensive batteries with 7-10 year lifespans gets expensive. And you still need a backup generator for extended wind/sunlight lulls. Many of SMA/Sunny Boy's grid-tie inverters can provide 2kW on a separate circuit, so if you are home you can at least run your furnace and refrigerator while the sun is shining. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
I am taking “old People Education classes” now that I am back in the cold of ANC. One class is run by an astrophysicist who is preaching global warming under the guise of Climate change in the arctic. A very frantic fellow who extrapolates from limited data sets to spew the accepted party line about how it IS ALL ANTHROPOGENIC! and shouts “That is not TRUE” if you call him out on a challenge to his theories. I am not sure where he is headed, but he has all the octogenarians in an uproar over the impending doom. I dearly want to tell him, that based upon his powerpoint slides, it looks like PEOPLE are the cause of all climate change over the past 10k years, since the planet has been warming ever since humans came up with civilization. That there must be some unknown process in which Neanderthal and other homo sapiens jump started this crisis much sooner than the melting of the massive ice sheets receding. Surely there was a conspiracy to ferment sugars, creating carbon dioxide, that was correlated to the massive flatulence of the bovine beasties roaming the tundra which were used to make dairy items consumed by the lactose intolerant hominids. The combined methane plumes creating a powerful greenhouse gassing effect. This combined with the emigration of darker Africans, which increased the Albedo in the northern hemisphere. clay > On Oct 11, 2019, at 7:24 AM, Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes > wrote: > > The Tesla is not helping with global warming (that is if we are operating > under the assumption that it is a manmade process) because the electricity > generated to power the thing adds to our carbon footprint. You can skirt > around the issue all you want by saying that the car itself doesn’t emit > anything but that is just plain manipulation and hypocrisy. > > Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
The TESLA-rati in SEA are working around the issue of remoteness. With the big goobermint rebates going to be phased out, there was a mad rush to toss solar PV on as many roofs of the homes of tesla owners. I took my morning constitutionals this past summer and found house after house with tesla in the drive had sprouted panels upon the roof. This did not happen to the LEAF owners. Had to be a Muski car, as the cost to put panels runs $1k per panel, install in set of 8-10 to provide the required 240v big watts for the transformers. May have even had massive battery banks to collect the spare ohms that would not slip onto the grid due to all the wind power plugging the lines. I was today old when I found out that residential solar hooked to the grid requires that the whole home lose power when the grid goes down. Something the folks in Kalifornia are learning to their dismay. clay computer upside down and shook it, but the bookmark for what I'm looking for didn't fall out. > On Oct 11, 2019, at 6:26 AM, Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes > wrote: > > Well maybe they’re good for LA but they are not good for the country or > planet as you say. LA can keep them as the rich Hollywood types and Silicon > Valley crowd are the only ones that can afford them anyway. I’ll stick with > my internal combustion engines here in the northeast. I could care less about > the morally and socially bankrupt LA crowd. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Oct 11, 2019, at 8:59 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes >> wrote: >> >> That's why anybody with a penchant for honesty calls them REVs, or remote >> emissions vehicles. >> The goal is to clean up L.A. county by moving the vehicle emissions out of >> L.A., but it's of zero benefit to the planet. >> Mitch. >> >>> On October 11, 2019 at 12:02 AM Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> No that’s not the end of the story because the emissions from a Tesla are >>> not zero! Electricity generation causes emissions. Period, end of story! Ok >>> now that’s the end of the story! >> >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
Hey. I resemble that remark. On Fri, Oct 11, 2019, 10:27 AM Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > I could care less about the morally and socially bankrupt LA crowd. > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Oct 11, 2019, at 8:59 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > > > That's why anybody with a penchant for honesty calls them REVs, or > remote emissions vehicles. > > The goal is to clean up L.A. county by moving the vehicle emissions out > of L.A., but it's of zero benefit to the planet. > > Mitch. > > > >> On October 11, 2019 at 12:02 AM Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > >> > >> > >> No that’s not the end of the story because the emissions from a Tesla > are not zero! Electricity generation causes emissions. Period, end of > story! Ok now that’s the end of the story! > > > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
Where's the diesel content? On Fri, Oct 11, 2019 at 1:17 PM Randy Bennell via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > Wedding photo - she looks pretty good. > > https://www.abc.net.au/news/image/7981972-3x2-940x627.jpg > > Randy > > > On 11/10/2019 12:06 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes wrote: > >> On October 11, 2019 at 12:54 PM Randy Bennell via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > >> Hillary was a reasonably pretty girl. > > HS girl, maybe: > > > http://media2.popsugar-assets.com/files/thumbor/IisINAbN_vIbR8Mrzq2jEgAlVh8/fit-in/1024x1024/filters:format_auto-!!-:strip_icc-!!-/2016/07/28/869/n/1922153/8fdf671e6da17ae8_GettyImages-525640238.jpg > > > > Young woman, I'd disagree: > > https://katrinapearls.files.wordpress.com/2016/11/young-hillary.png > > > > Bill's wife, definitely not: > > http://cdn.cnwimg.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/bill_hillary_young.jpg > > > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
Wedding photo - she looks pretty good. https://www.abc.net.au/news/image/7981972-3x2-940x627.jpg Randy On 11/10/2019 12:06 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes wrote: On October 11, 2019 at 12:54 PM Randy Bennell via Mercedes wrote: Hillary was a reasonably pretty girl. HS girl, maybe: http://media2.popsugar-assets.com/files/thumbor/IisINAbN_vIbR8Mrzq2jEgAlVh8/fit-in/1024x1024/filters:format_auto-!!-:strip_icc-!!-/2016/07/28/869/n/1922153/8fdf671e6da17ae8_GettyImages-525640238.jpg Young woman, I'd disagree: https://katrinapearls.files.wordpress.com/2016/11/young-hillary.png Bill's wife, definitely not: http://cdn.cnwimg.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/bill_hillary_young.jpg ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
> On October 11, 2019 at 12:54 PM Randy Bennell via Mercedes > wrote: > Hillary was a reasonably pretty girl. HS girl, maybe: http://media2.popsugar-assets.com/files/thumbor/IisINAbN_vIbR8Mrzq2jEgAlVh8/fit-in/1024x1024/filters:format_auto-!!-:strip_icc-!!-/2016/07/28/869/n/1922153/8fdf671e6da17ae8_GettyImages-525640238.jpg Young woman, I'd disagree: https://katrinapearls.files.wordpress.com/2016/11/young-hillary.png Bill's wife, definitely not: http://cdn.cnwimg.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/bill_hillary_young.jpg ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
On 11/10/2019 11:32 AM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote: For years, I thought when BJ Clinton said "I did not have sex with That woman" he was talking about Monica Now I understand he was actually talking about Hillary... Being a lawyer [now dis-barred] he found a way to lie and tell the truth at the same time... Clever SOB, and some took it on face value. What can you expect from a guy that never owned a Mercedes, after all. He may have been thinking about some other woman when he said that but probably not Hillary. If you see photos of them back when they were young, Hillary was a reasonably pretty girl. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
For years, I thought when BJ Clinton said "I did not have sex with That woman" he was talking about Monica Now I understand he was actually talking about Hillary... Being a lawyer [now dis-barred] he found a way to lie and tell the truth at the same time... Clever SOB, and some took it on face value. What can you expect from a guy that never owned a Mercedes, after all. On Fri, Oct 11, 2019 at 9:26 AM Curley McLain via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > He still believes BillyJ didn't diddle Monica too. > > Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes wrote on 10/11/19 10:24 AM: > > The Tesla is not helping with global warming (that is if we are > operating under the assumption that it is a manmade process) because the > electricity generated to power the thing adds to our carbon footprint. You > can skirt around the issue all you want by saying that the car itself > doesn’t emit anything but that is just plain manipulation and hypocrisy. > > > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
not so. Diesel and carbon black can be made from coal. Mitch Haley via Mercedes wrote on 10/11/19 10:29 AM: You mean better growing conditions and less famine? But a Tesla running on coal does that better than a E250 Bluetec. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
He still believes BillyJ didn't diddle Monica too. Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes wrote on 10/11/19 10:24 AM: The Tesla is not helping with global warming (that is if we are operating under the assumption that it is a manmade process) because the electricity generated to power the thing adds to our carbon footprint. You can skirt around the issue all you want by saying that the car itself doesn’t emit anything but that is just plain manipulation and hypocrisy. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
Lotsa emissions making the PsOS too. Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote on 10/11/19 8:26 AM: The emissions from the Tesla are zero, the emissions created while making the electricity are non-zero. -Curt On Thursday, October 10, 2019, 11:03:24 PM EDT, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote: Of course this propaganda totally misses the point. The emissions from the Tesla are zero. Mission from any diesel are nonzero. End of story. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
Exactly and the clincher to why this is a scam is that the Martian polar ice caps are also melting. So are we responsible for this phenomenon as well? The answer is in what the Sun is doing, not what we are doing here on earth. Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 11, 2019, at 11:20 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes > wrote: > > The earth has been warming for 11,000+ years why should I care about it? > Theres nothing I can do to change it. Its like getting upset about the > weather. Might as well go yell at windmills. > > -Curt > >On Friday, October 11, 2019, 10:50:25 AM EDT, Andrew Strasfogel via > Mercedes wrote: > > If LA didn't exist then would you at least care about the warming planet? > > On Fri, Oct 11, 2019 at 10:27 AM Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > >> Well maybe they’re good for LA but they are not good for the country or >> planet as you say. LA can keep them as the rich Hollywood types and Silicon >> Valley crowd are the only ones that can afford them anyway. I’ll stick with >> my internal combustion engines here in the northeast. I could care less >> about the morally and socially bankrupt LA crowd. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Oct 11, 2019, at 8:59 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes < >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: >>> >>> That's why anybody with a penchant for honesty calls them REVs, or >> remote emissions vehicles. >>> The goal is to clean up L.A. county by moving the vehicle emissions out >> of L.A., but it's of zero benefit to the planet. >>> Mitch. >>> On October 11, 2019 at 12:02 AM Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes < >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: No that’s not the end of the story because the emissions from a Tesla >> are not zero! Electricity generation causes emissions. Period, end of >> story! Ok now that’s the end of the story! >>> >>> ___ >>> http://www.okiebenz.com >>> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >>> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >>> >> >> >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> >> > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
The perfect is the enemy of the good. The cited study's math is off by at LEAST a factor 5, and maybe as much as 20. (they use a battery life of 10 years and 94,000 kilometers! [about 58k miles]) Many Tesla owners will put that many miles on in two years. Some have said they intend to drive this battery until about 300,000 MILES... (5x as much). Why do these studies ALWAYS burden EVs with EVERY ounce of carbon in the production... (e.g. "... we assume the office of the mining company for the Cobalt is running the AC at a cost of 296g of C per ton of ore..." etc.). What about the C cost of all the extraction, refinement, and shipping of the oil that becomes gasoline? On Fri, Oct 11, 2019 at 11:29 AM Mitch Haley via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > You mean better growing conditions and less famine? > But a Tesla running on coal does that better than a E250 Bluetec. > Mitch. > > > On October 11, 2019 at 10:49 AM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > > > > > If LA didn't exist then would you at least care about the warming planet? > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
The earth has been warming for 11,000+ years why should I care about it? Theres nothing I can do to change it. Its like getting upset about the weather. Might as well go yell at windmills. -Curt On Friday, October 11, 2019, 10:50:25 AM EDT, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote: If LA didn't exist then would you at least care about the warming planet? On Fri, Oct 11, 2019 at 10:27 AM Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > Well maybe they’re good for LA but they are not good for the country or > planet as you say. LA can keep them as the rich Hollywood types and Silicon > Valley crowd are the only ones that can afford them anyway. I’ll stick with > my internal combustion engines here in the northeast. I could care less > about the morally and socially bankrupt LA crowd. > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Oct 11, 2019, at 8:59 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > > > That's why anybody with a penchant for honesty calls them REVs, or > remote emissions vehicles. > > The goal is to clean up L.A. county by moving the vehicle emissions out > of L.A., but it's of zero benefit to the planet. > > Mitch. > > > >> On October 11, 2019 at 12:02 AM Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > >> > >> > >> No that’s not the end of the story because the emissions from a Tesla > are not zero! Electricity generation causes emissions. Period, end of > story! Ok now that’s the end of the story! > > > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
You mean better growing conditions and less famine? But a Tesla running on coal does that better than a E250 Bluetec. Mitch. > On October 11, 2019 at 10:49 AM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes > wrote: > > > If LA didn't exist then would you at least care about the warming planet? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
Not to mention raping Africa for lithium, cobalt and other materials required for battery manufacture. As long as you close your eyes to all the pollution caused by electric cars the answer to pollution is electric cars. -Curt On Friday, October 11, 2019, 11:24:51 AM EDT, Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes wrote: The Tesla is not helping with global warming (that is if we are operating under the assumption that it is a manmade process) because the electricity generated to power the thing adds to our carbon footprint. You can skirt around the issue all you want by saying that the car itself doesn’t emit anything but that is just plain manipulation and hypocrisy. Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 11, 2019, at 10:49 AM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote: > > If LA didn't exist then would you at least care about the warming planet? > >> On Fri, Oct 11, 2019 at 10:27 AM Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes >> wrote: >> Well maybe they’re good for LA but they are not good for the country or >> planet as you say. LA can keep them as the rich Hollywood types and Silicon >> Valley crowd are the only ones that can afford them anyway. I’ll stick with >> my internal combustion engines here in the northeast. I could care less >> about the morally and socially bankrupt LA crowd. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> > On Oct 11, 2019, at 8:59 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes >> > wrote: >> > >> > That's why anybody with a penchant for honesty calls them REVs, or remote >> > emissions vehicles. >> > The goal is to clean up L.A. county by moving the vehicle emissions out of >> > L.A., but it's of zero benefit to the planet. >> > Mitch. >> > >> >> On October 11, 2019 at 12:02 AM Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> No that’s not the end of the story because the emissions from a Tesla are >> >> not zero! Electricity generation causes emissions. Period, end of story! >> >> Ok now that’s the end of the story! >> > >> > ___ >> > http://www.okiebenz.com >> > >> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> > >> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> > >> >> >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
The Tesla is not helping with global warming (that is if we are operating under the assumption that it is a manmade process) because the electricity generated to power the thing adds to our carbon footprint. You can skirt around the issue all you want by saying that the car itself doesn’t emit anything but that is just plain manipulation and hypocrisy. Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 11, 2019, at 10:49 AM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote: > > If LA didn't exist then would you at least care about the warming planet? > >> On Fri, Oct 11, 2019 at 10:27 AM Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes >> wrote: >> Well maybe they’re good for LA but they are not good for the country or >> planet as you say. LA can keep them as the rich Hollywood types and Silicon >> Valley crowd are the only ones that can afford them anyway. I’ll stick with >> my internal combustion engines here in the northeast. I could care less >> about the morally and socially bankrupt LA crowd. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> > On Oct 11, 2019, at 8:59 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes >> > wrote: >> > >> > That's why anybody with a penchant for honesty calls them REVs, or remote >> > emissions vehicles. >> > The goal is to clean up L.A. county by moving the vehicle emissions out of >> > L.A., but it's of zero benefit to the planet. >> > Mitch. >> > >> >> On October 11, 2019 at 12:02 AM Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> No that’s not the end of the story because the emissions from a Tesla are >> >> not zero! Electricity generation causes emissions. Period, end of story! >> >> Ok now that’s the end of the story! >> > >> > ___ >> > http://www.okiebenz.com >> > >> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> > >> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> > >> >> >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
If LA didn't exist then would you at least care about the warming planet? On Fri, Oct 11, 2019 at 10:27 AM Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > Well maybe they’re good for LA but they are not good for the country or > planet as you say. LA can keep them as the rich Hollywood types and Silicon > Valley crowd are the only ones that can afford them anyway. I’ll stick with > my internal combustion engines here in the northeast. I could care less > about the morally and socially bankrupt LA crowd. > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Oct 11, 2019, at 8:59 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > > > That's why anybody with a penchant for honesty calls them REVs, or > remote emissions vehicles. > > The goal is to clean up L.A. county by moving the vehicle emissions out > of L.A., but it's of zero benefit to the planet. > > Mitch. > > > >> On October 11, 2019 at 12:02 AM Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > >> > >> > >> No that’s not the end of the story because the emissions from a Tesla > are not zero! Electricity generation causes emissions. Period, end of > story! Ok now that’s the end of the story! > > > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
Well maybe they’re good for LA but they are not good for the country or planet as you say. LA can keep them as the rich Hollywood types and Silicon Valley crowd are the only ones that can afford them anyway. I’ll stick with my internal combustion engines here in the northeast. I could care less about the morally and socially bankrupt LA crowd. Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 11, 2019, at 8:59 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes > wrote: > > That's why anybody with a penchant for honesty calls them REVs, or remote > emissions vehicles. > The goal is to clean up L.A. county by moving the vehicle emissions out of > L.A., but it's of zero benefit to the planet. > Mitch. > >> On October 11, 2019 at 12:02 AM Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes >> wrote: >> >> >> No that’s not the end of the story because the emissions from a Tesla are >> not zero! Electricity generation causes emissions. Period, end of story! Ok >> now that’s the end of the story! > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
The emissions from the Tesla are zero, the emissions created while making the electricity are non-zero. -Curt On Thursday, October 10, 2019, 11:03:24 PM EDT, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote: Of course this propaganda totally misses the point. The emissions from the Tesla are zero. Mission from any diesel are nonzero. End of story. On Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 7:43 PM Curley McLain via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > Better send the EMTs for his heart attack. Or as bernie sez: Cardiac > infarction. > > G Mann via Mercedes wrote on 10/10/19 3:36 PM: > > Quick, someone send an intervention team to assist Andrew in processing > > this. > > [Nothing personal, I just haven't pissed him off for a few days.] ;}}} > > > > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
That's why anybody with a penchant for honesty calls them REVs, or remote emissions vehicles. The goal is to clean up L.A. county by moving the vehicle emissions out of L.A., but it's of zero benefit to the planet. Mitch. > On October 11, 2019 at 12:02 AM Dimitri Seretakis via Mercedes > wrote: > > > No that’s not the end of the story because the emissions from a Tesla are not > zero! Electricity generation causes emissions. Period, end of story! Ok now > that’s the end of the story! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
No that’s not the end of the story because the emissions from a Tesla are not zero! Electricity generation causes emissions. Period, end of story! Ok now that’s the end of the story! Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 10, 2019, at 11:02 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes > wrote: > > Of course this propaganda totally misses the point. The emissions from the > Tesla are zero. Mission from any diesel are nonzero. End of story. > > On Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 7:43 PM Curley McLain via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > >> Better send the EMTs for his heart attack. Or as bernie sez: Cardiac >> infarction. >> >> G Mann via Mercedes wrote on 10/10/19 3:36 PM: >>> Quick, someone send an intervention team to assist Andrew in processing >>> this. >>> [Nothing personal, I just haven't pissed him off for a few days.] ;}}} >>> >>> >> >> >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> >> > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
Of course this propaganda totally misses the point. The emissions from the Tesla are zero. Mission from any diesel are nonzero. End of story. On Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 7:43 PM Curley McLain via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > Better send the EMTs for his heart attack. Or as bernie sez: Cardiac > infarction. > > G Mann via Mercedes wrote on 10/10/19 3:36 PM: > > Quick, someone send an intervention team to assist Andrew in processing > > this. > > [Nothing personal, I just haven't pissed him off for a few days.] ;}}} > > > > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
Better send the EMTs for his heart attack. Or as bernie sez: Cardiac infarction. G Mann via Mercedes wrote on 10/10/19 3:36 PM: Quick, someone send an intervention team to assist Andrew in processing this. [Nothing personal, I just haven't pissed him off for a few days.] ;}}} ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
Very true --- why I don't have one now :-( On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 4:35 PM Randy Bennell via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > On 10/10/2019 4:20 PM, OK Don via Mercedes wrote: > > TANSTAAFL, and there's nothing better than a Mercedes Diesel! > > > and > > TANSTAACMB > > Randy > -- OK Don "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect." Mark Twain "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves." WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers* 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
On 10/10/2019 4:20 PM, OK Don via Mercedes wrote: TANSTAAFL, and there's nothing better than a Mercedes Diesel! and TANSTAACMB Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
TANSTAAFL, and there's nothing better than a Mercedes Diesel! On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 3:29 PM Mitch Haley via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > Driving A Tesla Results In More CO2 Than A Mercedes Diesel Car, Study Finds > https://dailycaller.com/2019/04/24/tesla-carbon-dioxide-mercedes > > Tesla Model 3 is touted as a zero-emissions car by government regulators, > but it actually results in more carbon dioxide than a comparable > diesel-powered car, according to a recent study. > > When the CO2 emissions from battery production is included, electric cars, > like Teslas, are “in the best case, slightly higher than those of a diesel > engine, and are otherwise much higher,” reads a release from the German > think tank IFO. > > “It’s better read as a warning that new technologies aren’t a > climate-change panacea. Recall the false promises about corn and cellulosic > ethanol,” The Wall Street Journal editorial board wrote of the study. > (RELATED: 2020 Democrats Back Plan That’s Already Raising Electricity > Prices) > > Driving a Tesla Model 3 in Germany, for example, is responsible for 156 to > 181 grams of CO2 per kilometer, compared to just 141 grams per kilometer > for a diesel-powered Mercedes C220d — that includes emissions from > producing diesel fuel. > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > -- OK Don "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect." Mark Twain "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves." WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers* 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
Quick, someone send an intervention team to assist Andrew in processing this. [Nothing personal, I just haven't pissed him off for a few days.] ;}}} On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 1:29 PM Mitch Haley via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > Driving A Tesla Results In More CO2 Than A Mercedes Diesel Car, Study Finds > https://dailycaller.com/2019/04/24/tesla-carbon-dioxide-mercedes > > Tesla Model 3 is touted as a zero-emissions car by government regulators, > but it actually results in more carbon dioxide than a comparable > diesel-powered car, according to a recent study. > > When the CO2 emissions from battery production is included, electric cars, > like Teslas, are “in the best case, slightly higher than those of a diesel > engine, and are otherwise much higher,” reads a release from the German > think tank IFO. > > “It’s better read as a warning that new technologies aren’t a > climate-change panacea. Recall the false promises about corn and cellulosic > ethanol,” The Wall Street Journal editorial board wrote of the study. > (RELATED: 2020 Democrats Back Plan That’s Already Raising Electricity > Prices) > > Driving a Tesla Model 3 in Germany, for example, is responsible for 156 to > 181 grams of CO2 per kilometer, compared to just 141 grams per kilometer > for a diesel-powered Mercedes C220d — that includes emissions from > producing diesel fuel. > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] Tesla Model 3: More "Global Climate Change" than a Mercedes
Driving A Tesla Results In More CO2 Than A Mercedes Diesel Car, Study Finds https://dailycaller.com/2019/04/24/tesla-carbon-dioxide-mercedes Tesla Model 3 is touted as a zero-emissions car by government regulators, but it actually results in more carbon dioxide than a comparable diesel-powered car, according to a recent study. When the CO2 emissions from battery production is included, electric cars, like Teslas, are “in the best case, slightly higher than those of a diesel engine, and are otherwise much higher,” reads a release from the German think tank IFO. “It’s better read as a warning that new technologies aren’t a climate-change panacea. Recall the false promises about corn and cellulosic ethanol,” The Wall Street Journal editorial board wrote of the study. (RELATED: 2020 Democrats Back Plan That’s Already Raising Electricity Prices) Driving a Tesla Model 3 in Germany, for example, is responsible for 156 to 181 grams of CO2 per kilometer, compared to just 141 grams per kilometer for a diesel-powered Mercedes C220d — that includes emissions from producing diesel fuel. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
