Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue
I actually saw hands hanging in the town square when I worked in Saudi Arabia. They evidently believed in advertising their punishments. A gruesome and often effective persuasion method. Of course, the fact that there were multiple hands shows not everyone was as impressed as I was ...;-) A nose - now that might get their attention! LarryT On 5/6/2013 12:07 AM, Dieselhead wrote: Ah, yes. Are you proposing that we impose s_ law??? However, we voted those theives into office --- who's to blame??? On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 10:10 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: Time to cut off their hands (or is it noses in Larry's example?) There is historical precedent for cutting off the hand of thieves. -- OK Don 2013 F150 2012 Passat TDI DSG 1957 C182A Nope. I believe the practice far predates the profet. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue
You project an admiration for the Saudi approach to justice. Does this tempt you to to move to Riyadh? Perhaps you could consult and perusade them to sever/display noses or other parts of the human anatomy in a never ending quest to deter crime... On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Larry T l02tur...@comcast.net wrote: I actually saw hands hanging in the town square when I worked in Saudi Arabia. They evidently believed in advertising their punishments. A gruesome and often effective persuasion method. Of course, the fact that there were multiple hands shows not everyone was as impressed as I was ... ;-) A nose - now that might get their attention! LarryT On 5/6/2013 12:07 AM, Dieselhead wrote: Ah, yes. Are you proposing that we impose s_ law??? However, we voted those theives into office --- who's to blame??? On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 10:10 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: Time to cut off their hands (or is it noses in Larry's example?) There is historical precedent for cutting off the hand of thieves. -- OK Don 2013 F150 2012 Passat TDI DSG 1957 C182A Nope. I believe the practice far predates the profet. __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue
Tax laws are made by Congress. Some point to consider are that flat tax rates such as sales taxes are regressive and hurt the poor. Taxes that make everyone pay the same overall percentage of income are preferred but tricky. For example, the per gallon gas tax is the same for someone living on minimum wage as they are for a rich person. Therefore the percentage of income is higher for the minimum wage worker. Also higher income earners often pay less as a percentage than the middle class. Does Mitt Romney contribute 6% of his wages to the social security fund? On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 8:56 AM, Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.comwrote: You project an admiration for the Saudi approach to justice. Does this tempt you to to move to Riyadh? Perhaps you could consult and perusade them to sever/display noses or other parts of the human anatomy in a never ending quest to deter crime... On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Larry T l02tur...@comcast.net wrote: I actually saw hands hanging in the town square when I worked in Saudi Arabia. They evidently believed in advertising their punishments. A gruesome and often effective persuasion method. Of course, the fact that there were multiple hands shows not everyone was as impressed as I was ... ;-) A nose - now that might get their attention! LarryT On 5/6/2013 12:07 AM, Dieselhead wrote: Ah, yes. Are you proposing that we impose s_ law??? However, we voted those theives into office --- who's to blame??? On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 10:10 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: Time to cut off their hands (or is it noses in Larry's example?) There is historical precedent for cutting off the hand of thieves. -- OK Don 2013 F150 2012 Passat TDI DSG 1957 C182A Nope. I believe the practice far predates the profet. __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/ http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.com http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/ http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.com http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue
Two points on this. (1) The rich will always get around the tax codes, because they can. (2) From each according to his ability hasn't worked well in practice. -Original Message- From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Larry T Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2013 6:12 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue IMO the progressive tax code should be illegal. Just because someone is wealthy is no reason to tax them at a higher rate. Actually the tax codes as sold to the public just before 1916 was said to only apply to the very wealthy. You can see how long that lasted. It's always easier to point to the rich guys (who are always fewer in number than the masses) and convince those with less finances how evil the wealthy are for no other reason than they have more money. Tax rates and ticket costs should be the same for everyone. Just because the socialist in Europe are doing it doesn't mean it's right. Just because the wealthy have more money doesn't mean they should spend more on the government and all the stupid things they like to spend our taxes on. The government does so many things they have no business doing it's no wonder we're trillions in debt. Things like peanut allotments which do nothing but keep prices high, cotton and diary products get the same treatment. The govt is tossing suply and demand in order to manage production. And in return those industries donate huge dollars to get the people elected who will continue these and other practices. Back to progressive laws that punish the wealthy more than others. There is no reason to tax the rich at higher rates than everyone else. So there :-P LarryT On 5/3/2013 8:51 PM, Scott Ritchey wrote: What is the basis of the implied assumption that the rich (generally understood to mean anyone with more than me) should not have the same Constitutional protections as the poor? Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote: Wouldn't it be way fairer to soak the rich through application of a progressive tax code, rather than burdening those who can least afford to pay these fines, as a means of shouldering the cost of governing. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue
On 05/05/2013 7:15 PM, Dieselhead wrote: It's called a value added tax, or VAT. Common in the EU and other places. Dan NO! A VAT is insidious. VAT is added every time a raw material, part or component is handled. A flat tax on income is direct and understandable. A tax on retail sales is also direct and understandable. VAT greatly favors vertically integrated companies., as they start with raw ingredients and if they sell directly at retail, there are only two VATs on the finished product, on raw materials, and again on the retail sale. Take an auto for example. Many tiers of suppliers, each with several levels of VAT. The VAT becomes a MAJOR component of the retail price. VAT sucks bigtime. It is a big reason why you don't buy a lot of products from UK and former crown colonies, who nearly all have VAT taxes, driving up prices. Is this why Hendrik has to pay obnoxious prices for parts? We have GST - goods and services tax in Canada on the federal level. Most provinces (or maybe all of them) also have PST or RSt - retail sales tax. In some provinces we also ahve HST which is harmonized tax - a combined GST and provincial sales tax. Supposed to be cheaper to administer but what it has done is to widen the scope of things that get taxed. To the credit of our Conservative federal government - the GST has been lowered twice in recent years from 7% to 6% and now 5% which is a good thing in my mind. Unfortunately, our provincial socialist government is picking up the slack by raising our PST from 7% to 8%. It is necessary I suppose because they keep increasing the size of the government. They keep hiring more spin doctors to tell us that everything is great. Pretty soon we will all work for the government and they can change socialist to communist. I hope the bas*ards are booted out on their backsides when the next election comes around. Randy who did not vote for this bunch last time ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue
Randy, you're sounding very American. Welcome aboard. ;) Wilton - Original Message - From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Monday, May 06, 2013 6:17 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue On 05/05/2013 7:15 PM, Dieselhead wrote: It's called a value added tax, or VAT. Common in the EU and other places. Dan NO! A VAT is insidious. VAT is added every time a raw material, part or component is handled. A flat tax on income is direct and understandable. A tax on retail sales is also direct and understandable. VAT greatly favors vertically integrated companies., as they start with raw ingredients and if they sell directly at retail, there are only two VATs on the finished product, on raw materials, and again on the retail sale. Take an auto for example. Many tiers of suppliers, each with several levels of VAT. The VAT becomes a MAJOR component of the retail price. VAT sucks bigtime. It is a big reason why you don't buy a lot of products from UK and former crown colonies, who nearly all have VAT taxes, driving up prices. Is this why Hendrik has to pay obnoxious prices for parts? We have GST - goods and services tax in Canada on the federal level. Most provinces (or maybe all of them) also have PST or RSt - retail sales tax. In some provinces we also ahve HST which is harmonized tax - a combined GST and provincial sales tax. Supposed to be cheaper to administer but what it has done is to widen the scope of things that get taxed. To the credit of our Conservative federal government - the GST has been lowered twice in recent years from 7% to 6% and now 5% which is a good thing in my mind. Unfortunately, our provincial socialist government is picking up the slack by raising our PST from 7% to 8%. It is necessary I suppose because they keep increasing the size of the government. They keep hiring more spin doctors to tell us that everything is great. Pretty soon we will all work for the government and they can change socialist to communist. I hope the bas*ards are booted out on their backsides when the next election comes around. Randy who did not vote for this bunch last time ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue
IMO the progressive tax code should be illegal. Just because someone is wealthy is no reason to tax them at a higher rate. Actually the tax codes as sold to the public just before 1916 was said to only apply to the very wealthy. You can see how long that lasted. It's always easier to point to the rich guys (who are always fewer in number than the masses) and convince those with less finances how evil the wealthy are for no other reason than they have more money. Tax rates and ticket costs should be the same for everyone. Just because the socialist in Europe are doing it doesn't mean it's right. Just because the wealthy have more money doesn't mean they should spend more on the government and all the stupid things they like to spend our taxes on. The government does so many things they have no business doing it's no wonder we're trillions in debt. Things like peanut allotments which do nothing but keep prices high, cotton and diary products get the same treatment. The govt is tossing suply and demand in order to manage production. And in return those industries donate huge dollars to get the people elected who will continue these and other practices. Back to progressive laws that punish the wealthy more than others. There is no reason to tax the rich at higher rates than everyone else. So there :-P LarryT On 5/3/2013 8:51 PM, Scott Ritchey wrote: What is the basis of the implied assumption that the rich (generally understood to mean anyone with more than me) should not have the same Constitutional protections as the poor? Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote: Wouldn't it be way fairer to soak the rich through application of a progressive tax code, rather than burdening those who can least afford to pay these fines, as a means of shouldering the cost of governing. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue
On Sun, 05 May 2013 18:12:02 -0400 Larry T l02tur...@comcast.net wrote: Just because the wealthy have more money doesn't mean they should spend more on the government and all the stupid things they like to spend our taxes on. With the same tax rate for all, the wealthy WILL spend more money on the government, because they make more money. That should be a, Duh!, but with the class warfare the elite seek to incite, it seems to be forgotten easily. Craig P.S. That also assumes reasonable tax codes without loopholes. A flat tax with a credit for low income folks seems best. Or maybe even return to the original way of funding, excise taxes. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue
Yep. I'm all for a national sales tax but only *_IF _*the 16th amendment is repealed. If not, sure as i love my MB, we'd soon be taxed both with a sales and income tax. I can hear it now, We need to do it for the children. or just as likely We need to pass this bill to find out what's in it. Give me a break. puulease. one more thing on taxes and I'll stop - Everyone uses the infrastructure. Everyone enjoys the protection of the military. with those 2 things in mind, everyone should share in the expense - which I believe a National Sales Tax or Flat tax would do - no deductions, etc. While the real estate PAC's (as well as others) will wring their hands and say people will no longer be able to afford homes, but imo the pacs would better use their time to educate prospective buyers by telling them they'll be paying less overall taxes so they'll be better to afford higher payments. Along with repealing the 16th Amendment, the states should follow suit and repeal all taxes except for a statewide sales tax - no more Personal Property tax, real estate tax, auto tax, gas tax, tolls, etc. -- there are so many embedded taxes we cannot possible keep them all straight. The tax situation in this country (and others too I am sure) is so muddled as to be completely impossible to decipher. LarryT LarryT On 5/5/2013 6:43 PM, Craig wrote: On Sun, 05 May 2013 18:12:02 -0400 Larry T l02tur...@comcast.net wrote: Just because the wealthy have more money doesn't mean they should spend more on the government and all the stupid things they like to spend our taxes on. With the same tax rate for all, the wealthy WILL spend more money on the government, because they make more money. That should be a, Duh!, but with the class warfare the elite seek to incite, it seems to be forgotten easily. Craig P.S. That also assumes reasonable tax codes without loopholes. A flat tax with a credit for low income folks seems best. Or maybe even return to the original way of funding, excise taxes. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue
It's called a value added tax, or VAT. Common in the EU and other places. Dan On May 5, 2013, at 7:42 PM, Larry T wrote: Yep. I'm all for a national sales tax but only *_IF _*the 16th amendment is repealed. If not, sure as i love my MB, we'd soon be taxed both with a sales and income tax. I can hear it now, We need to do it for the children. or just as likely We need to pass this bill to find out what's in it. Give me a break. puulease. one more thing on taxes and I'll stop - Everyone uses the infrastructure. Everyone enjoys the protection of the military. with those 2 things in mind, everyone should share in the expense - which I believe a National Sales Tax or Flat tax would do - no deductions, etc. While the real estate PAC's (as well as others) will wring their hands and say people will no longer be able to afford homes, but imo the pacs would better use their time to educate prospective buyers by telling them they'll be paying less overall taxes so they'll be better to afford higher payments. Along with repealing the 16th Amendment, the states should follow suit and repeal all taxes except for a statewide sales tax - no more Personal Property tax, real estate tax, auto tax, gas tax, tolls, etc. -- there are so many embedded taxes we cannot possible keep them all straight. The tax situation in this country (and others too I am sure) is so muddled as to be completely impossible to decipher. LarryT ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue
The tax situation in this country (and others too I am sure) is so muddled as to be completely impossible to decipher. LarryT THAT IS NO ACCIDENT. IT IS BY INTENT. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue
It's called a value added tax, or VAT. Common in the EU and other places. Dan NO! A VAT is insidious. VAT is added every time a raw material, part or component is handled. A flat tax on income is direct and understandable. A tax on retail sales is also direct and understandable. VAT greatly favors vertically integrated companies., as they start with raw ingredients and if they sell directly at retail, there are only two VATs on the finished product, on raw materials, and again on the retail sale. Take an auto for example. Many tiers of suppliers, each with several levels of VAT. The VAT becomes a MAJOR component of the retail price. VAT sucks bigtime. It is a big reason why you don't buy a lot of products from UK and former crown colonies, who nearly all have VAT taxes, driving up prices. Is this why Hendrik has to pay obnoxious prices for parts? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue raising
It's called a GST here, which stands for Grab Take Snatch. It's not the only reason why parts are more expensive here, the reason is volume, shipping costs and competition. Hendrik who is a collector of GST and needs to do his 1/4ly BAS On 06/05/13 09:45, Dieselhead wrote: It's called a value added tax, or VAT. Common in the EU and other places. Dan NO! A VAT is insidious. VAT is added every time a raw material, part or component is handled. A flat tax on income is direct and understandable. A tax on retail sales is also direct and understandable. VAT greatly favors vertically integrated companies., as they start with raw ingredients and if they sell directly at retail, there are only two VATs on the finished product, on raw materials, and again on the retail sale. Take an auto for example. Many tiers of suppliers, each with several levels of VAT. The VAT becomes a MAJOR component of the retail price. VAT sucks bigtime. It is a big reason why you don't buy a lot of products from UK and former crown colonies, who nearly all have VAT taxes, driving up prices. Is this why Hendrik has to pay obnoxious prices for parts? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue
a BIG part I suspect! the only thing worse than the USA's 60,000 page (or whatever) tax code is europe's VAT! Value Added my butt! the only perceived value is the govt's taking the peasants money! and its all in favor of the govt. -- dieselhead described it perfectly! the govt is salivating over the prospect of being able to tax internet sales! they were slowed recently but its a temporary bump in the road for them... they'll get their nose under the tent, then steal the freakin' tent! you can quote me ;-) LarryT On 5/5/2013 8:15 PM, Dieselhead wrote: Is this why Hendrik has to pay obnoxious prices for parts? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue
a BIG part I suspect! the only thing worse than the USA's 60,000 page (or whatever) tax code is europe's VAT! Value Added my butt! the only perceived value is the govt's taking the peasants money! and its all in favor of the govt. -- dieselhead described it perfectly! the govt is salivating over the prospect of being able to tax internet sales! they were slowed recently but its a temporary bump in the road for them... they'll get their nose under the tent, then steal the freakin' tent! you can quote me ;-) LarryT Time to cut off their hands (or is it noses in Larry's example?) There is historical precedent for cutting off the hand of thieves. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue
Ah, yes. Are you proposing that we impose Shariah law??? However, we voted those theives into office --- who's to blame??? On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 10:10 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: Time to cut off their hands (or is it noses in Larry's example?) There is historical precedent for cutting off the hand of thieves. -- OK Don 2013 F150 2012 Passat TDI DSG 1957 C182A ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue
Ah, yes. Are you proposing that we impose s_ law??? However, we voted those theives into office --- who's to blame??? On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 10:10 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: Time to cut off their hands (or is it noses in Larry's example?) There is historical precedent for cutting off the hand of thieves. -- OK Don 2013 F150 2012 Passat TDI DSG 1957 C182A Nope. I believe the practice far predates the profet. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue
Good for you! Sent from my iPhone On May 3, 2013, at 2:37 PM, G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com wrote: We the People in Arizona forced the speed cameras to be removed. Rampant fraud was part of the reason. The other part was the loss of Constitutional Right to face our accuser. Vote early Vote often.. it can work. On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 11:12 AM, Benz Hogs benz-n-h...@gulseth.net wrote: Enforcing speeding laws would be IL's ticket out of debt. Interstate speed limits are 55mph while everyone goes at least 70-85. Imagine the revenue they could generate. Luther KB5QHUForest Park, IL '98 ML320 Max (164,xxx mi) On 5/3/2013 12:12 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote: Sorry! I meant to say that speeders claim that the speed traps are merely a guise to raise revenues from oppressed citizens, and as such are a hidden tax. __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue
No. That sounds like communism. Sent from my iPhone On May 3, 2013, at 2:33 PM, Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote: Wouldn't it be way fairer to soak the rich through application of a progressive tax code, rather than burdening those who can least afford to pay these fines, as a means of shouldering the cost of governing. On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 2:12 PM, Benz Hogs benz-n-h...@gulseth.net wrote: Enforcing speeding laws would be IL's ticket out of debt. Interstate speed limits are 55mph while everyone goes at least 70-85. Imagine the revenue they could generate. Luther KB5QHUForest Park, IL '98 ML320 Max (164,xxx mi) On 5/3/2013 12:12 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote: Sorry! I meant to say that speeders claim that the speed traps are merely a guise to raise revenues from oppressed citizens, and as such are a hidden tax. __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue
Perhaps too many people have read the stories of Robin Hood and don't realize that those stories are probably well twisted by the passage of time. Of course lots of people go up to actors and treat them like the characters they portray. -Curt Date: Fri, 03 May 2013 18:21:36 -0400 From: Max meadedil...@bellsouth.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue Message-ID: 98925d16-0f5d-474e-bbda-f89810f5e...@email.android.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 No. Those of us outside the beltway and who have been taught critical thinking call that income redistribution aka stealing. Done in the name of government doesn't change the morality of it. Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote: Wouldn't it be way fairer to soak the rich through application of a progressive tax code, rather than burdening those who can least afford to pay these fines, as a means of shouldering the cost of governing. -- Max Dillon Charleston, SC '95 E300, '87 300TD, '73 Balboa 20 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue
dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: No. That sounds like communism. It sounds like the lie used to sell Communism to the masses. The more power government has, the more it will be used by those wielding the power to enrich those wielding the power. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue
... but they gave me a strong sense of integrity, determination, perseverance, persistence, and tenacity I would say that you received an outstanding inheritance. Sway better than things. -Original Message- From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of WILTON Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 11:15 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue Yes, we called 'em slides, too; 'had burlap from fertilizer bags on both side and ends. During winter, my dad and brothers would cut the wood for heating the curing barns. I remember at 5 to 10 years old, or so, wanting to spend nights at the barn with Daddy. A few times, I'd go to sleep at the barn, but I'd awaken in the house in my bed and be upset that Mama had gone to the barn and taken me, asleep, in her arms to the house. Everybody, Mom, Dad, 5 brothers and a sister, took good care of the baby. I was lucky to have such a caring and loving family. We never had much money or material things, but they gave me a strong sense of integrity, determination, perseverance, persistence, and tenacity Wilton - Original Message - From: Scott Ritchey ritche...@nc.rr.com To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 10:48 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue In Vance Co., NC, those tobacco trucks are called slides. I still have a tobacco curing barn in good shape which I modified (by adding a six-foot wide door) to hold yard equipment. When this old tobacco farm was active it was just as you describe. I still have one slide that seems to be made from 2x lumber and truck parts; both sides drop down for loading. Also, the curing barn was heated by fire and had to be manned 24-7 during the process. -Original Message- From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of WILTON Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 9:11 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue Relative measure of wealth reminds me: When I was a boy on tobacco farms in Nash County, NC, my measure of a rich farmer was his tobacco trucks - the little mule-drawn trucks that hauled the tobacco leaves from the fields to the curing barns where a crew, usually women and girls/children, would loop (attach with cotton string) them onto sticks to facilitate hanging the leaves into the barns. Our trucks were home-made and rode on 2 X 6 (sometimes, 2 X 4) wooden slide runners. Rich farmers had wheels on their store-bought, factory-built trucks. Wilton - Original Message - From: Scott Ritchey ritche...@nc.rr.com To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 8:51 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue What is the basis of the implied assumption that the rich (generally understood to mean anyone with more than me) should not have the same Constitutional protections as the poor? Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote: Wouldn't it be way fairer to soak the rich through application of a progressive tax code, rather than burdening those who can least afford to pay these fines, as a means of shouldering the cost of governing. -- ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue
Yep. Wilton - Original Message - From: Scott Ritchey ritche...@nc.rr.com To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2013 6:50 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue ... but they gave me a strong sense of integrity, determination, perseverance, persistence, and tenacity I would say that you received an outstanding inheritance. Sway better than things. -Original Message- From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of WILTON Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 11:15 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue Yes, we called 'em slides, too; 'had burlap from fertilizer bags on both side and ends. During winter, my dad and brothers would cut the wood for heating the curing barns. I remember at 5 to 10 years old, or so, wanting to spend nights at the barn with Daddy. A few times, I'd go to sleep at the barn, but I'd awaken in the house in my bed and be upset that Mama had gone to the barn and taken me, asleep, in her arms to the house. Everybody, Mom, Dad, 5 brothers and a sister, took good care of the baby. I was lucky to have such a caring and loving family. We never had much money or material things, but they gave me a strong sense of integrity, determination, perseverance, persistence, and tenacity Wilton - Original Message - From: Scott Ritchey ritche...@nc.rr.com To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 10:48 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue In Vance Co., NC, those tobacco trucks are called slides. I still have a tobacco curing barn in good shape which I modified (by adding a six-foot wide door) to hold yard equipment. When this old tobacco farm was active it was just as you describe. I still have one slide that seems to be made from 2x lumber and truck parts; both sides drop down for loading. Also, the curing barn was heated by fire and had to be manned 24-7 during the process. -Original Message- From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of WILTON Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 9:11 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue Relative measure of wealth reminds me: When I was a boy on tobacco farms in Nash County, NC, my measure of a rich farmer was his tobacco trucks - the little mule-drawn trucks that hauled the tobacco leaves from the fields to the curing barns where a crew, usually women and girls/children, would loop (attach with cotton string) them onto sticks to facilitate hanging the leaves into the barns. Our trucks were home-made and rode on 2 X 6 (sometimes, 2 X 4) wooden slide runners. Rich farmers had wheels on their store-bought, factory-built trucks. Wilton - Original Message - From: Scott Ritchey ritche...@nc.rr.com To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 8:51 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue What is the basis of the implied assumption that the rich (generally understood to mean anyone with more than me) should not have the same Constitutional protections as the poor? Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote: Wouldn't it be way fairer to soak the rich through application of a progressive tax code, rather than burdening those who can least afford to pay these fines, as a means of shouldering the cost of governing. -- ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives
Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding
Just think of it as a speed tax. If you want to go fast, you have to pay. That was standard terminology at the old speed shops. How much $ depended on how fast you wanted to do. Randy On 02/05/2013 9:23 PM, Dieselhead wrote: Nope. Not until a camera gets on the stand and testifies. In the US of A, we have the right to face our accuser. Some camera company inGermany is not an accuser in the eyes of the court. Whoever gets a ticket is a victim of injustice. They lie with studies about safety. They claim its fer da cilluns. It really is all about extorting money from the populace. I see the speeders as perps, not victims. On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 3:46 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: Those are not victimless crimes. Everyone who gets a ticket is a victim. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding
I hate it when criminals try to blame everything on high taxes. On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 12:52 PM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: Just think of it as a speed tax. If you want to go fast, you have to pay. That was standard terminology at the old speed shops. How much $ depended on how fast you wanted to do. Randy On 02/05/2013 9:23 PM, Dieselhead wrote: Nope. Not until a camera gets on the stand and testifies. In the US of A, we have the right to face our accuser. Some camera company inGermany is not an accuser in the eyes of the court. Whoever gets a ticket is a victim of injustice. They lie with studies about safety. They claim its fer da cilluns. It really is all about extorting money from the populace. I see the speeders as perps, not victims. On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 3:46 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: Those are not victimless crimes. Everyone who gets a ticket is a victim. __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding
Ok, I give up. I don't understand that response at all. Randy On 03/05/2013 11:56 AM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote: I hate it when criminals try to blame everything on high taxes. On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 12:52 PM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: Just think of it as a speed tax. If you want to go fast, you have to pay. That was standard terminology at the old speed shops. How much $ depended on how fast you wanted to do. Randy On 02/05/2013 9:23 PM, Dieselhead wrote: Nope. Not until a camera gets on the stand and testifies. In the US of A, we have the right to face our accuser. Some camera company inGermany is not an accuser in the eyes of the court. Whoever gets a ticket is a victim of injustice. They lie with studies about safety. They claim its fer da cilluns. It really is all about extorting money from the populace. I see the speeders as perps, not victims. On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 3:46 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: Those are not victimless crimes. Everyone who gets a ticket is a victim. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding
Sorry! I meant to say that speeders claim that the speed traps are merely a guise to raise revenues from oppressed citizens, and as such are a hidden tax. On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 1:07 PM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: Ok, I give up. I don't understand that response at all. Randy On 03/05/2013 11:56 AM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote: I hate it when criminals try to blame everything on high taxes. On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 12:52 PM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: Just think of it as a speed tax. If you want to go fast, you have to pay. That was standard terminology at the old speed shops. How much $ depended on how fast you wanted to do. Randy On 02/05/2013 9:23 PM, Dieselhead wrote: Nope. Not until a camera gets on the stand and testifies. In the US of A, we have the right to face our accuser. Some camera company inGermany is not an accuser in the eyes of the court. Whoever gets a ticket is a victim of injustice. They lie with studies about safety. They claim its fer da cilluns. It really is all about extorting money from the populace. I see the speeders as perps, not victims. On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 3:46 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: Those are not victimless crimes. Everyone who gets a ticket is a victim. __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue
Enforcing speeding laws would be IL's ticket out of debt. Interstate speed limits are 55mph while everyone goes at least 70-85. Imagine the revenue they could generate. Luther KB5QHUForest Park, IL '98 ML320 Max (164,xxx mi) On 5/3/2013 12:12 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote: Sorry! I meant to say that speeders claim that the speed traps are merely a guise to raise revenues from oppressed citizens, and as such are a hidden tax. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue
Wouldn't it be way fairer to soak the rich through application of a progressive tax code, rather than burdening those who can least afford to pay these fines, as a means of shouldering the cost of governing. On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 2:12 PM, Benz Hogs benz-n-h...@gulseth.net wrote: Enforcing speeding laws would be IL's ticket out of debt. Interstate speed limits are 55mph while everyone goes at least 70-85. Imagine the revenue they could generate. Luther KB5QHUForest Park, IL '98 ML320 Max (164,xxx mi) On 5/3/2013 12:12 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote: Sorry! I meant to say that speeders claim that the speed traps are merely a guise to raise revenues from oppressed citizens, and as such are a hidden tax. __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue
We the People in Arizona forced the speed cameras to be removed. Rampant fraud was part of the reason. The other part was the loss of Constitutional Right to face our accuser. Vote early Vote often.. it can work. On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 11:12 AM, Benz Hogs benz-n-h...@gulseth.net wrote: Enforcing speeding laws would be IL's ticket out of debt. Interstate speed limits are 55mph while everyone goes at least 70-85. Imagine the revenue they could generate. Luther KB5QHUForest Park, IL '98 ML320 Max (164,xxx mi) On 5/3/2013 12:12 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote: Sorry! I meant to say that speeders claim that the speed traps are merely a guise to raise revenues from oppressed citizens, and as such are a hidden tax. __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue
Why not enforce the laws that are already on the books instead of wasting time making new ones? Luther KB5QHUForest Park, IL '98 ML320 Max (164,xxx mi) On 5/3/2013 1:33 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote: Wouldn't it be way fairer to soak the rich through application of a progressive tax code, rather than burdening those who can least afford to pay these fines, as a means of shouldering the cost of governing. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue
Maybe there is a need to change? Maybe the old laws have outlived their relevance or usefulness. Maybe there is a new problem that needs to be addressed. Lots of reasons. On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 2:50 PM, Benz Hogs benz-n-h...@gulseth.net wrote: Why not enforce the laws that are already on the books instead of wasting time making new ones? Luther KB5QHUForest Park, IL '98 ML320 Max (164,xxx mi) On 5/3/2013 1:33 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote: Wouldn't it be way fairer to soak the rich through application of a progressive tax code, rather than burdening those who can least afford to pay these fines, as a means of shouldering the cost of governing. __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding
It is not a hidden tax as we all know we can be caught if we drive faster than the posted limits. It is not a certain tax. Most of the time we get away with it. Sometimes we get caught and have to pay up. Randy On 03/05/2013 12:12 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote: Sorry! I meant to say that speeders claim that the speed traps are merely a guise to raise revenues from oppressed citizens, and as such are a hidden tax. On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 1:07 PM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: Ok, I give up. I don't understand that response at all. Randy On 03/05/2013 11:56 AM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote: I hate it when criminals try to blame everything on high taxes. On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 12:52 PM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: Just think of it as a speed tax. If you want to go fast, you have to pay. That was standard terminology at the old speed shops. How much $ depended on how fast you wanted to do. Randy On 02/05/2013 9:23 PM, Dieselhead wrote: Nope. Not until a camera gets on the stand and testifies. In the US of A, we have the right to face our accuser. Some camera company inGermany is not an accuser in the eyes of the court. Whoever gets a ticket is a victim of injustice. They lie with studies about safety. They claim its fer da cilluns. It really is all about extorting money from the populace. I see the speeders as perps, not victims. On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 3:46 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: Those are not victimless crimes. Everyone who gets a ticket is a victim. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue
Those who can least afford to pay fines, should be among the most careful drivers in order to avoid having to pay the fines. Randy On 03/05/2013 1:33 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote: Wouldn't it be way fairer to soak the rich through application of a progressive tax code, rather than burdening those who can least afford to pay these fines, as a means of shouldering the cost of governing. On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 2:12 PM, Benz Hogs benz-n-h...@gulseth.net wrote: Enforcing speeding laws would be IL's ticket out of debt. Interstate speed limits are 55mph while everyone goes at least 70-85. Imagine the revenue they could generate. Luther KB5QHUForest Park, IL '98 ML320 Max (164,xxx mi) On 5/3/2013 12:12 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote: Sorry! I meant to say that speeders claim that the speed traps are merely a guise to raise revenues from oppressed citizens, and as such are a hidden tax. __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding
Ah, the voice of reason. Plentiful north of the border but in woefully short supply in the USA at the moment... On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 3:07 PM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: It is not a hidden tax as we all know we can be caught if we drive faster than the posted limits. It is not a certain tax. Most of the time we get away with it. Sometimes we get caught and have to pay up. Randy On 03/05/2013 12:12 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote: Sorry! I meant to say that speeders claim that the speed traps are merely a guise to raise revenues from oppressed citizens, and as such are a hidden tax. On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 1:07 PM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: Ok, I give up. I don't understand that response at all. Randy On 03/05/2013 11:56 AM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote: I hate it when criminals try to blame everything on high taxes. On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 12:52 PM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: Just think of it as a speed tax. If you want to go fast, you have to pay. That was standard terminology at the old speed shops. How much $ depended on how fast you wanted to do. Randy On 02/05/2013 9:23 PM, Dieselhead wrote: Nope. Not until a camera gets on the stand and testifies. In the US of A, we have the right to face our accuser. Some camera company inGermany is not an accuser in the eyes of the court. Whoever gets a ticket is a victim of injustice. They lie with studies about safety. They claim its fer da cilluns. It really is all about extorting money from the populace. I see the speeders as perps, not victims. On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 3:46 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: Those are not victimless crimes. Everyone who gets a ticket is a victim. __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue
We are working on it in Florida. There is a guy over in St. Pete who has done a fantastic job refuting all the government claims about their advantages, yet they still voted them in against the wishes of their constituents. A local DA has received something like 4-5 red light camera tickets and gotten all of them thrown out. Seems that you don't have to come to a complete stop to turn right on a red light - you just have to slow to less than 12 mph. I know a couple of people who got them and challenged the ticket. Both got dismissed. If there was ever a bogus way of cleaning people's pockets I don't know of it. Dan On May 3, 2013, at 2:37 PM, G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com wrote: We the People in Arizona forced the speed cameras to be removed. Rampant fraud was part of the reason. The other part was the loss of Constitutional Right to face our accuser. Vote early Vote often.. it can work. On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 11:12 AM, Benz Hogs benz-n-h...@gulseth.net wrote: Enforcing speeding laws would be IL's ticket out of debt. Interstate speed limits are 55mph while everyone goes at least 70-85. Imagine the revenue they could generate. Luther KB5QHUForest Park, IL '98 ML320 Max (164,xxx mi) On 5/3/2013 12:12 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote: Sorry! I meant to say that speeders claim that the speed traps are merely a guise to raise revenues from oppressed citizens, and as such are a hidden tax. __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue
Speed trap: I-81 Wytheville, VA. G. M. Brown Brevard, NC ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding
Sadly, it is not all that common here either. Randy On 03/05/2013 2:33 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote: Ah, the voice of reason. Plentiful north of the border but in woefully short supply in the USA at the moment... On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 3:07 PM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: It is not a hidden tax as we all know we can be caught if we drive faster than the posted limits. It is not a certain tax. Most of the time we get away with it. Sometimes we get caught and have to pay up. Randy On 03/05/2013 12:12 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote: Sorry! I meant to say that speeders claim that the speed traps are merely a guise to raise revenues from oppressed citizens, and as such are a hidden tax. On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 1:07 PM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: Ok, I give up. I don't understand that response at all. Randy On 03/05/2013 11:56 AM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote: I hate it when criminals try to blame everything on high taxes. On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 12:52 PM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: Just think of it as a speed tax. If you want to go fast, you have to pay. That was standard terminology at the old speed shops. How much $ depended on how fast you wanted to do. Randy On 02/05/2013 9:23 PM, Dieselhead wrote: Nope. Not until a camera gets on the stand and testifies. In the US of A, we have the right to face our accuser. Some camera company inGermany is not an accuser in the eyes of the court. Whoever gets a ticket is a victim of injustice. They lie with studies about safety. They claim its fer da cilluns. It really is all about extorting money from the populace. I see the speeders as perps, not victims. On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 3:46 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: Those are not victimless crimes. Everyone who gets a ticket is a victim. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue
Enforcing speeding laws would be IL's ticket out of debt. Interstate speed limits are 55mph while everyone goes at least 70-85. Imagine the revenue they could generate. Luther KB5QHUForest Park, IL '98 ML320 Max (164,xxx mi) Its IL. THey money would never make it to the state coffers somehow/anyhow. It would go to Rohm, Se IU, afs CME, Hof fa, bumbster, Corny A's or somewhere. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue
No. Those of us outside the beltway and who have been taught critical thinking call that income redistribution aka stealing. Done in the name of government doesn't change the morality of it. Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote: Wouldn't it be way fairer to soak the rich through application of a progressive tax code, rather than burdening those who can least afford to pay these fines, as a means of shouldering the cost of governing. -- Max Dillon Charleston, SC '95 E300, '87 300TD, '73 Balboa 20 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue
What is the basis of the implied assumption that the rich (generally understood to mean anyone with more than me) should not have the same Constitutional protections as the poor? Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote: Wouldn't it be way fairer to soak the rich through application of a progressive tax code, rather than burdening those who can least afford to pay these fines, as a means of shouldering the cost of governing. -- ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue
Relative measure of wealth reminds me: When I was a boy on tobacco farms in Nash County, NC, my measure of a rich farmer was his tobacco trucks - the little mule-drawn trucks that hauled the tobacco leaves from the fields to the curing barns where a crew, usually women and girls/children, would loop (attach with cotton string) them onto sticks to facilitate hanging the leaves into the barns. Our trucks were home-made and rode on 2 X 6 (sometimes, 2 X 4) wooden slide runners. Rich farmers had wheels on their store-bought, factory-built trucks. Wilton - Original Message - From: Scott Ritchey ritche...@nc.rr.com To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 8:51 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue What is the basis of the implied assumption that the rich (generally understood to mean anyone with more than me) should not have the same Constitutional protections as the poor? Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote: Wouldn't it be way fairer to soak the rich through application of a progressive tax code, rather than burdening those who can least afford to pay these fines, as a means of shouldering the cost of governing. -- ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue
In Vance Co., NC, those tobacco trucks are called slides. I still have a tobacco curing barn in good shape which I modified (by adding a six-foot wide door) to hold yard equipment. When this old tobacco farm was active it was just as you describe. I still have one slide that seems to be made from 2x lumber and truck parts; both sides drop down for loading. Also, the curing barn was heated by fire and had to be manned 24-7 during the process. -Original Message- From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of WILTON Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 9:11 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue Relative measure of wealth reminds me: When I was a boy on tobacco farms in Nash County, NC, my measure of a rich farmer was his tobacco trucks - the little mule-drawn trucks that hauled the tobacco leaves from the fields to the curing barns where a crew, usually women and girls/children, would loop (attach with cotton string) them onto sticks to facilitate hanging the leaves into the barns. Our trucks were home-made and rode on 2 X 6 (sometimes, 2 X 4) wooden slide runners. Rich farmers had wheels on their store-bought, factory-built trucks. Wilton - Original Message - From: Scott Ritchey ritche...@nc.rr.com To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 8:51 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue What is the basis of the implied assumption that the rich (generally understood to mean anyone with more than me) should not have the same Constitutional protections as the poor? Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote: Wouldn't it be way fairer to soak the rich through application of a progressive tax code, rather than burdening those who can least afford to pay these fines, as a means of shouldering the cost of governing. -- ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue
I am not sure about how best to deal with the poverty stricken and cost of life. #1 boy was planning on using the E300 to get to his job. At the time of offer, it was for graveyard shift unloading either trailer (Target) or airplane (Fedex). He would be able to return home with the car so that I would be able to use it once I woke up. With the car gone, he is now trying to figure out how to get to the job on city bus, which does not run in the wee hours of the night. It would take him almost two hours to get to the job, and another two home. A car cuts it to around 25 minutes if traffic is flowing well. Cost of vehicle purchase, insurance and fuel instead of maybe $60/mo. for the bus and around $40 a shift of wasted time based on wages. The poor want all the goodies the established people have, so are trapped in unrealistic expectations of what a good life entails. Tax everybody until there is no cash flowing and see how far we get. clay On May 3, 2013, at 11:33 AM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote: Wouldn't it be way fairer to soak the rich through application of a progressive tax code, rather than burdening those who can least afford to pay these fines, as a means of shouldering the cost of governing. On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 2:12 PM, Benz Hogs benz-n-h...@gulseth.net wrote: Enforcing speeding laws would be IL's ticket out of debt. Interstate speed limits are 55mph while everyone goes at least 70-85. Imagine the revenue they could generate. Luther KB5QHUForest Park, IL '98 ML320 Max (164,xxx mi) On 5/3/2013 12:12 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote: Sorry! I meant to say that speeders claim that the speed traps are merely a guise to raise revenues from oppressed citizens, and as such are a hidden tax. __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue
Yes, we called 'em slides, too; 'had burlap from fertilizer bags on both side and ends. During winter, my dad and brothers would cut the wood for heating the curing barns. I remember at 5 to 10 years old, or so, wanting to spend nights at the barn with Daddy. A few times, I'd go to sleep at the barn, but I'd awaken in the house in my bed and be upset that Mama had gone to the barn and taken me, asleep, in her arms to the house. Everybody, Mom, Dad, 5 brothers and a sister, took good care of the baby. I was lucky to have such a caring and loving family. We never had much money or material things, but they gave me a strong sense of integrity, determination, perseverance, persistence, and tenacity Wilton - Original Message - From: Scott Ritchey ritche...@nc.rr.com To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 10:48 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue In Vance Co., NC, those tobacco trucks are called slides. I still have a tobacco curing barn in good shape which I modified (by adding a six-foot wide door) to hold yard equipment. When this old tobacco farm was active it was just as you describe. I still have one slide that seems to be made from 2x lumber and truck parts; both sides drop down for loading. Also, the curing barn was heated by fire and had to be manned 24-7 during the process. -Original Message- From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of WILTON Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 9:11 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue Relative measure of wealth reminds me: When I was a boy on tobacco farms in Nash County, NC, my measure of a rich farmer was his tobacco trucks - the little mule-drawn trucks that hauled the tobacco leaves from the fields to the curing barns where a crew, usually women and girls/children, would loop (attach with cotton string) them onto sticks to facilitate hanging the leaves into the barns. Our trucks were home-made and rode on 2 X 6 (sometimes, 2 X 4) wooden slide runners. Rich farmers had wheels on their store-bought, factory-built trucks. Wilton - Original Message - From: Scott Ritchey ritche...@nc.rr.com To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 8:51 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue What is the basis of the implied assumption that the rich (generally understood to mean anyone with more than me) should not have the same Constitutional protections as the poor? Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote: Wouldn't it be way fairer to soak the rich through application of a progressive tax code, rather than burdening those who can least afford to pay these fines, as a means of shouldering the cost of governing. -- ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue
Oh, growing up on tenant farms also gave me an extremely strong desire to get a good education. If every child/teenager now could have only a little bit of that intense desire for and education that I had, there'd be no need for juvenal courts and we'd hafta build a LOT more schools. Wilton - Original Message - From: WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 11:14 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue Yes, we called 'em slides, too; 'had burlap from fertilizer bags on both side and ends. During winter, my dad and brothers would cut the wood for heating the curing barns. I remember at 5 to 10 years old, or so, wanting to spend nights at the barn with Daddy. A few times, I'd go to sleep at the barn, but I'd awaken in the house in my bed and be upset that Mama had gone to the barn and taken me, asleep, in her arms to the house. Everybody, Mom, Dad, 5 brothers and a sister, took good care of the baby. I was lucky to have such a caring and loving family. We never had much money or material things, but they gave me a strong sense of integrity, determination, perseverance, persistence, and tenacity Wilton - Original Message - From: Scott Ritchey ritche...@nc.rr.com To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 10:48 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue In Vance Co., NC, those tobacco trucks are called slides. I still have a tobacco curing barn in good shape which I modified (by adding a six-foot wide door) to hold yard equipment. When this old tobacco farm was active it was just as you describe. I still have one slide that seems to be made from 2x lumber and truck parts; both sides drop down for loading. Also, the curing barn was heated by fire and had to be manned 24-7 during the process. -Original Message- From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of WILTON Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 9:11 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue Relative measure of wealth reminds me: When I was a boy on tobacco farms in Nash County, NC, my measure of a rich farmer was his tobacco trucks - the little mule-drawn trucks that hauled the tobacco leaves from the fields to the curing barns where a crew, usually women and girls/children, would loop (attach with cotton string) them onto sticks to facilitate hanging the leaves into the barns. Our trucks were home-made and rode on 2 X 6 (sometimes, 2 X 4) wooden slide runners. Rich farmers had wheels on their store-bought, factory-built trucks. Wilton - Original Message - From: Scott Ritchey ritche...@nc.rr.com To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 8:51 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue What is the basis of the implied assumption that the rich (generally understood to mean anyone with more than me) should not have the same Constitutional protections as the poor? Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote: Wouldn't it be way fairer to soak the rich through application of a progressive tax code, rather than burdening those who can least afford to pay these fines, as a means of shouldering the cost of governing. -- ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue
When I was a kid I spent summers with my grandparents, my granddaddies both grew terbacky. I looked forward to the cutting time. I got to drive the tractor pulling the wagon through the field then haul the load to the barn. Being 12 or 14 that was a real big deal. My one granddaddy hired an old black man, one mr. Fred Torian who was quite a character. He christened me an honorary soul brother at one point which I thought was pretty cool for a know-nothing white boy. He also made some wicked Q that was quite famous. He had one guy on his crew named Sculley who was about 7ft tall and was always the guy on the wagon handing the sticks up to the guys on the tiers. I learned many things from those guys while waiting for them to unload a wagon, none of which I shared with my parents! My granddaddies occasionally grew dark fired backy but mostly grew air-cured burley. They used arsenic of lead to kill the worms, go figure what that did to flavor the product. --R (sent from my miniPad) On May 3, 2013, at 11:14 PM, WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com wrote: Yes, we called 'em slides, too; 'had burlap from fertilizer bags on both side and ends. During winter, my dad and brothers would cut the wood for heating the curing barns. I remember at 5 to 10 years old, or so, wanting to spend nights at the barn with Daddy. A few times, I'd go to sleep at the barn, but I'd awaken in the house in my bed and be upset that Mama had gone to the barn and taken me, asleep, in her arms to the house. Everybody, Mom, Dad, 5 brothers and a sister, took good care of the baby. I was lucky to have such a caring and loving family. We never had much money or material things, but they gave me a strong sense of integrity, determination, perseverance, persistence, and tenacity Wilton - Original Message - From: Scott Ritchey ritche...@nc.rr.com To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 10:48 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue In Vance Co., NC, those tobacco trucks are called slides. I still have a tobacco curing barn in good shape which I modified (by adding a six-foot wide door) to hold yard equipment. When this old tobacco farm was active it was just as you describe. I still have one slide that seems to be made from 2x lumber and truck parts; both sides drop down for loading. Also, the curing barn was heated by fire and had to be manned 24-7 during the process. -Original Message- From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of WILTON Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 9:11 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue Relative measure of wealth reminds me: When I was a boy on tobacco farms in Nash County, NC, my measure of a rich farmer was his tobacco trucks - the little mule-drawn trucks that hauled the tobacco leaves from the fields to the curing barns where a crew, usually women and girls/children, would loop (attach with cotton string) them onto sticks to facilitate hanging the leaves into the barns. Our trucks were home-made and rode on 2 X 6 (sometimes, 2 X 4) wooden slide runners. Rich farmers had wheels on their store-bought, factory-built trucks. Wilton - Original Message - From: Scott Ritchey ritche...@nc.rr.com To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 8:51 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Speeding and revenue What is the basis of the implied assumption that the rich (generally understood to mean anyone with more than me) should not have the same Constitutional protections as the poor? Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote: Wouldn't it be way fairer to soak the rich through application of a progressive tax code, rather than burdening those who can least afford to pay these fines, as a means of shouldering the cost of governing. -- ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change
Re: [MBZ] OT: speeding
You must live on a different planet At 10:43 PM 7/16/2009, you wrote: What's so funny? Actually, I've been to traffic court like 6 times when I was a teenager and drove crazy, and had the fines reduced to the legal minimum or removed every time. Sincerely, Tyler On Jul 16, 2009, at 7:55 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH tyler wrote: I absolutely disagree with what you're saying. Most judges are reasonable, and put the burden of proof on the officer, not the defendant- as is required by law. The judge also has the power to adjust sentencing to make the punishment fit the crime. For example, over a year ago in Oregon I got a ticket for running snow tires out of season. What I was doing was illegal, and I admitted it to the judge- but pleaded not guilty (the only option which gets you to court) because it had in fact snowed a few days earlier, and I had put the tires on just for that snow storm, and had then been out of town and didn't have time to change them back. The judge found me guilty, but reduced the fine to the absolute minimum (from about $150 to like $10). If you are professional, courteous and reasonable, and don't contradict the officers testimony (calling him a liar) but instead explain the circumstances surrounding your actions, most judges will give you the minimum sentence the law allows them to. Tyler ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Loren Faeth ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: speeding
I think it has to do with how you act and how you approach the situation. For example, I always file a discovery request for the officers notes, bring signed affidavits from any passengers with their complete story, bring relevant photos and maps of the scene/car/etc, and generally act respectful and professional- and I also generally have a very good reason for why I was breaking the law (or else I wouldn't have been doing so- right?). I will also get a new haircut and wear a full business suit or very nice clothes. The judges are also often very interested in my scientific research, especially if I was driving somewhere related to it at the time. The cops generally look unprepared, unprofessional, and insincere in comparison and the judge can see that. Generally they don't even remember the exact incident and their notes don't match their testimony very well. Twice I've gotten tickets and instead of payment I sent in a copy of the relevant law highlighted along with a note to explain why my actions were not legally in violation- and they chose to dismiss the case without going to trial. Tyler Loren Faeth wrote: You must live on a different planet At 10:43 PM 7/16/2009, you wrote: What's so funny? Actually, I've been to traffic court like 6 times when I was a teenager and drove crazy, and had the fines reduced to the legal minimum or removed every time. Sincerely, Tyler ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: speeding
Not a different planet but a different world, I tried to challenge a speeding ticket many years ago (120 in a 110 zone) but failed miserably. The magistrates where sympathetic but had to uphold the law, ended up costing me more and a couple of points off the license. Kinda frustrating when you consider some of the sentences handed out for serious stuff, a few years back there was a case of a young bloke who grabbed his old man's hand gun (safely stored under bed.not) and shot a newspaper delivery guy in the face because he thought this fella had attacked a couple of his girlfriends. The newspaper guy lost an eye and the young idiot got a suspended sentence. Following a public outcry the Government appealed the sentence and the shooter got some jail time. Hendrik tyler wrote: I think it has to do with how you act and how you approach the situation. For example, I always file a discovery request for the officers notes, bring signed affidavits from any passengers with their complete story, bring relevant photos and maps of the scene/car/etc, and generally act respectful and professional- and I also generally have a very good reason for why I was breaking the law (or else I wouldn't have been doing so- right?). I will also get a new haircut and wear a full business suit or very nice clothes. The judges are also often very interested in my scientific research, especially if I was driving somewhere related to it at the time. The cops generally look unprepared, unprofessional, and insincere in comparison and the judge can see that. Generally they don't even remember the exact incident and their notes don't match their testimony very well. Twice I've gotten tickets and instead of payment I sent in a copy of the relevant law highlighted along with a note to explain why my actions were not legally in violation- and they chose to dismiss the case without going to trial. Tyler Loren Faeth wrote: You must live on a different planet At 10:43 PM 7/16/2009, you wrote: What's so funny? Actually, I've been to traffic court like 6 times when I was a teenager and drove crazy, and had the fines reduced to the legal minimum or removed every time. Sincerely, Tyler ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: speeding
I absolutely disagree with what you're saying. Most judges are reasonable, and put the burden of proof on the officer, not the defendant- as is required by law. The judge also has the power to adjust sentencing to make the punishment fit the crime. For example, over a year ago in Oregon I got a ticket for running snow tires out of season. What I was doing was illegal, and I admitted it to the judge- but pleaded not guilty (the only option which gets you to court) because it had in fact snowed a few days earlier, and I had put the tires on just for that snow storm, and had then been out of town and didn't have time to change them back. The judge found me guilty, but reduced the fine to the absolute minimum (from about $150 to like $10). If you are professional, courteous and reasonable, and don't contradict the officers testimony (calling him a liar) but instead explain the circumstances surrounding your actions, most judges will give you the minimum sentence the law allows them to. Tyler Hendrik Fay wrote: Best off to just pay the thing, question is did you miss the sign or was the sign that badly vandalized that any reasonable person would not be able to make out what it was. What is the basis of your challenge? That there was only one partially obscured sign? You have to consider that a court will not go against an officer of the law unless you can absolutely prove that the issuing of the ticket was wrong. Can you do this? I recently got a red light running ticket in my truck, situation was that a bus had partially pulled into my lane whilst wanting to turn at the traffic lights, there was a car to my left and I was busy watching my mirrors and the bus to see how far over I could go, in order to not hit the car or bus. By the time I saw that the lights where just about to turn red it was too late to safely stop. I could go to court and explain the circumstances but the court would most likely say that given my experience I should have done better and stopped the truck if it was unsafe to proceed. Hendrik ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: speeding
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH tyler wrote: I absolutely disagree with what you're saying. Most judges are reasonable, and put the burden of proof on the officer, not the defendant- as is required by law. The judge also has the power to adjust sentencing to make the punishment fit the crime. For example, over a year ago in Oregon I got a ticket for running snow tires out of season. What I was doing was illegal, and I admitted it to the judge- but pleaded not guilty (the only option which gets you to court) because it had in fact snowed a few days earlier, and I had put the tires on just for that snow storm, and had then been out of town and didn't have time to change them back. The judge found me guilty, but reduced the fine to the absolute minimum (from about $150 to like $10). If you are professional, courteous and reasonable, and don't contradict the officers testimony (calling him a liar) but instead explain the circumstances surrounding your actions, most judges will give you the minimum sentence the law allows them to. Tyler Hendrik Fay wrote: Best off to just pay the thing, question is did you miss the sign or was the sign that badly vandalized that any reasonable person would not be able to make out what it was. What is the basis of your challenge? That there was only one partially obscured sign? You have to consider that a court will not go against an officer of the law unless you can absolutely prove that the issuing of the ticket was wrong. Can you do this? I recently got a red light running ticket in my truck, situation was that a bus had partially pulled into my lane whilst wanting to turn at the traffic lights, there was a car to my left and I was busy watching my mirrors and the bus to see how far over I could go, in order to not hit the car or bus. By the time I saw that the lights where just about to turn red it was too late to safely stop. I could go to court and explain the circumstances but the court would most likely say that given my experience I should have done better and stopped the truck if it was unsafe to proceed. Hendrik ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.387 / Virus Database: 270.13.16/2241 - Release Date: 07/16/09 05:58:00 -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 95 E300, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 91 300E, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 80 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090716/f2986c3a/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: speeding/comparing VIN's
If hypothetically the officer forgot to have me sign the ticket does that mean anything? Allan WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com writes: Late one afternoon in '76 at George AFB, CA, (near Victorville) I had dismantled a small, surplus bridge on base and most of the long beams loaded onto my '74 Plymouth van with several feet of each protruding out the back of the van. I had attached a red flag and red reflector the end on one of the beams to improve their visibility for the night trip to my cabin 35 miles away in the San Gabriel Mountains where I planned to use the beams in the building of a deck. Almost immediately after I exited the base onto the main highway for the trip to the cabin flashing blue lights of a CHP cruiser were behind me. I pulled over thinking the officer was gonna jump me for having the beams protruding so far out the back or not having a light on them or question why I was leaving the base loaded with such beams, especially at night. He ask for my license and registration, which I immediately presented, of course. He glanced at them, handed them back and said, Sorry to have bothered you, Sir. Have a nice evening. I put my license back in my wallet, threw the registration card on the engine cover by right leg and proceeded with my trip. Coupla days later, I picked up the registration card and, as I started to put it back in the glove compartment, I noticed that the card was for a '64 Dodge van that I had traded a coupla years before for the 76 Plymouth van that I was driving!!! CHP officer never noticed the difference. BTW, 'have no idea what they were looking for. Wilton - Original Message - From: Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 3:16 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: speeding ernest breakfield wrote: try to make it clear that you would have been obeying the law if there was some way you could have known what it actually was! I once got pulled over for going past a 25mph sign at 35mph with my brakes on. AFAIK, the speed limit was 55mph on one side of that sign and 25mph on the other. I hit the brakes as soon as I went around a curve and saw the sign. No ticket, just a long going over from a 'by the book, straight from the academy' cop who was bored. It was about 1:00 AM and I think he was waiting for the nearby tavern to close. He's the only cop who ever compared the VIN on my dash with the VIN on my registration. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: speeding
What's so funny? Actually, I've been to traffic court like 6 times when I was a teenager and drove crazy, and had the fines reduced to the legal minimum or removed every time. Sincerely, Tyler On Jul 16, 2009, at 7:55 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH tyler wrote: I absolutely disagree with what you're saying. Most judges are reasonable, and put the burden of proof on the officer, not the defendant- as is required by law. The judge also has the power to adjust sentencing to make the punishment fit the crime. For example, over a year ago in Oregon I got a ticket for running snow tires out of season. What I was doing was illegal, and I admitted it to the judge- but pleaded not guilty (the only option which gets you to court) because it had in fact snowed a few days earlier, and I had put the tires on just for that snow storm, and had then been out of town and didn't have time to change them back. The judge found me guilty, but reduced the fine to the absolute minimum (from about $150 to like $10). If you are professional, courteous and reasonable, and don't contradict the officers testimony (calling him a liar) but instead explain the circumstances surrounding your actions, most judges will give you the minimum sentence the law allows them to. Tyler ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: speeding
Don't deal with the Judge, he will consider you a PIA. Go talk to the prosecutor, with luck he will reduce of nolly the charge. He's happy they got your attention. -- Peter Arnold Windsor, CT - Original Message - From: Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 2:15:35 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [MBZ] OT: speeding Got my first speeding ticket tonight, 35 in a 20. I thought I was on an unposted stretch of road, which in town would default to a 30 limit. I cant prove I was not going 35 but seems a stretch given the road. It's a very twisty road through a wooded area with a park. Based on the presence of the park the limit is 20. I did not recall seeing any signage to this effect so I drove back over my route and found ONE 20 mph sign but it was partially obscured by spray paint vandalism. Thinking of contesting the ticket. I'm going back in the morning to take photos of the sign and document the lack of any PARK ZONE or additional speed limit signs. Anyone have a feeling whether a judge would dismiss this at a bench trial? Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090715/4aeffc1e/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: speeding
Thinking of contesting the ticket. I'm going back in the morning to take photos of the sign and document the lack of any PARK ZONE or additional speed limit signs. Anyone have a feeling whether a judge would dismiss this at a bench trial? One of the most instructive things I did, when dealing with a speeding ticket myself, was to observe traffic court for a few sessions beforehand. (I had Fridays off at that point in time.) It might work, it might not. Generally just showing up at I'm sorry court and not being an idiot (either when speeding or in court) could net you a halved fine. (I didn't do it court is pretty much all or nothing. You want I'm sorry court, btw. You're not contesting your speed or location, but the circumstances. I went to the wrong one [checked wrong box on ticket] but the judge was understanding when I explained why I thought I was in the right place, though she set me straight.) Once in awhile the ticket is dismissed. Mine was. (I had documentary evidence of my brand-new and unexpectedly overly large snow tires. I remember thinking at the time, What, are these guys bored or something?) There are certain key phrases to use and to avoid, I'm sure that's part of the (local) process. There's also what appeared to me to be an unsettling odor of randomness. I recall one rather attractive girl's totally lame story, her ticket's dismissal surprised even her. Attitude is also important. Being next up after a raving asshole is also not too good for your cause. The judges have seen it all, day-in day-out. They have pretty good BS detectors, but the nature of that job tends to make them cranky. Watch. Really. You'll see not what works, but rather a whole lot of what doesn't. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: speeding
pm7...@comcast.net wrote: Don't deal with the Judge, he will consider you a PIA. Go talk to the prosecutor Around here (Michigan) we have to demand a formal hearing to get a prostitutor and judge, otherwise it's just you, the cop, and a part time lawyer/magistrate. My experience with demanding a formal hearing: 1. Calhoun County, demanded formal hearing on the advice of my counsel, got scheduled for an informal hearing, complained, got rescheduled for pre-trial conference with a persecuting attorney. At the conference, he offered me dismissal w/o prejudice, to be reinstated if any further violations in the next six months, and I pay $25 costs. That seemed to be the SOP, if you are accused of a traffic offense, have a clean record, and nobody was hurt, they just get you out of there without costing the county any more money. The other speeder there got the same deal for going a bit faster than me. 2. Eaton County, demanded formal hearing, scheduled for informal hearing, complained and got scheduled for formal hearing. No pretrial, but five minutes before the hearing, the prostituting attorney offered me the chance to plea guilty and pay. At trial, cop lied through his teeth, I dragged it out for a couple of hours trying to get some truth out of him, and it probably cost the county $1000-2000 to get an $80 speeding fine out of me for being the slowest car on the road. (that'll teach them to handle it a pre-trial, eh?) 3. Eaton County, several years later. Demanded formal hearing, actually got scheduled for one, with pre-trial conference beforehand. Good thing for the clerk, I was ready to sue her the next time somebody tried to deny my right to a formal hearing by purposefully ignoring my request. PA said Your record doesn't merit this charge Oh, so you'll be dismissing it? No, but if you settle here, I'll reduce it greatly. So, BS criminal charges dismissed, paid a stiff fine for traffic offense not chargeable against my insurance rating. I still liked the first result best, but #3 was better than #2. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: speeding
I want to encourage you to resist. The only discouragement they get is when you make them spend more to prosecute than the ticket is worth. that said, in the first proceeding your chances of success I would put at 5% or less. As one judge told me once, If you weren't guilty, they would not have given you a ticket. Most likely, the case will be dismissed on appeal to a real court. That pretty much necessitates paying a shyster to represent you. At 01:15 AM 7/15/2009, you wrote: Got my first speeding ticket tonight, 35 in a 20. I thought I was on an unposted stretch of road, which in town would default to a 30 limit. I cant prove I was not going 35 but seems a stretch given the road. It's a very twisty road through a wooded area with a park. Based on the presence of the park the limit is 20. I did not recall seeing any signage to this effect so I drove back over my route and found ONE 20 mph sign but it was partially obscured by spray paint vandalism. Thinking of contesting the ticket. I'm going back in the morning to take photos of the sign and document the lack of any PARK ZONE or additional speed limit signs. Anyone have a feeling whether a judge would dismiss this at a bench trial? Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com Loren Faeth ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: speeding
I'd gather evidence and talk to prosecutor about dismissal. Wilton - Original Message - From: Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 2:15 AM Subject: [MBZ] OT: speeding Got my first speeding ticket tonight, 35 in a 20. I thought I was on an unposted stretch of road, which in town would default to a 30 limit. I cant prove I was not going 35 but seems a stretch given the road. It's a very twisty road through a wooded area with a park. Based on the presence of the park the limit is 20. I did not recall seeing any signage to this effect so I drove back over my route and found ONE 20 mph sign but it was partially obscured by spray paint vandalism. Thinking of contesting the ticket. I'm going back in the morning to take photos of the sign and document the lack of any PARK ZONE or additional speed limit signs. Anyone have a feeling whether a judge would dismiss this at a bench trial? Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: speeding
Loren Faeth wrote: I want to encourage you to resist. The only discouragement they get is when you make them spend more to prosecute than the ticket is worth. I forgot to mention in my earlier reply: If you have photographic evidence, don't let anybody see it until after you've cross-examined the lying sack of cop. Otherwise, the scene of the offense will magically change to someplace different than where your photographs were taken (and also different from the location written on the ticket) When it happened to me, I had an envelope from a photo processing lab on the table in front of me. The judge didn't care that the place I claimed it happened and the place written on the ticket was different from the place the cop testified to in court. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: speeding
always fight a ticket. there are a variety of reasons you might get off. if it comes down to convincing a judge, i wouldn't argue about what my actual speed was but would be prepared to show evidence that you couldn't have *reasonably* known that the speed limit was 20 since that's what you've been charged with exceeding. it may be a tough argument since there *was* a sign there (even if it was partially obliterated), but i'd bring plenty of pictures and try to make it clear that you would have been obeying the law if there was some way you could have known what it actually was! municipalities have a certain responsibility to make it possible for people to know what the regulations are for any specific place; this is what you're playing to, although you'll probably piss off a judge by saying it this way. (if it can be shown that this is an area you aren't familiar with, that wouldn't hurt; of course, if this is part of your regular commute, it might be deemed that you should have known what the speed limit was.) it varies too much from area to area to know the specifics of how things work where you'll be going to court, but i'm 3-0 in fighting my last 3 tickets like this in CA. you may even have the option of a 'Trail by Declaration' where you make your statement and present your evidence by mail (without ever having to appear in court). this often works for you because the citing officer has to present his side the same way, and they're generally not particularly fond of having to do more paperwork (and are frequently surprisingly bad at it). if it makes a big difference to you, talk to a lawyer; they might have some tips for you, but sometimes just having legal representation seems to make enough of a difference that a ruling will come out in your favor. cheers! e Allan Streib wrote: Got my first speeding ticket tonight, 35 in a 20. I thought I was on an unposted stretch of road, which in town would default to a 30 limit. I cant prove I was not going 35 but seems a stretch given the road. It's a very twisty road through a wooded area with a park. Based on the presence of the park the limit is 20. I did not recall seeing any signage to this effect so I drove back over my route and found ONE 20 mph sign but it was partially obscured by spray paint vandalism. Thinking of contesting the ticket. I'm going back in the morning to take photos of the sign and document the lack of any PARK ZONE or additional speed limit signs. Anyone have a feeling whether a judge would dismiss this at a bench trial? Allan -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090715/26b265f5/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: speeding
er, make that trIAl by declaration,... silly spell check doesn't know what i *meant* to say! ;-) cheers! e ernest breakfield wrote: always fight a ticket. there are a variety of reasons you might get off. if it comes down to convincing a judge, i wouldn't argue about what my actual speed was but would be prepared to show evidence that you couldn't have *reasonably* known that the speed limit was 20 since that's what you've been charged with exceeding. it may be a tough argument since there *was* a sign there (even if it was partially obliterated), but i'd bring plenty of pictures and try to make it clear that you would have been obeying the law if there was some way you could have known what it actually was! municipalities have a certain responsibility to make it possible for people to know what the regulations are for any specific place; this is what you're playing to, although you'll probably piss off a judge by saying it this way. (if it can be shown that this is an area you aren't familiar with, that wouldn't hurt; of course, if this is part of your regular commute, it might be deemed that you should have known what the speed limit was.) it varies too much from area to area to know the specifics of how things work where you'll be going to court, but i'm 3-0 in fighting my last 3 tickets like this in CA. you may even have the option of a 'Trail by Declaration' where you make your statement and present your evidence by mail (without ever having to appear in court). this often works for you because the citing officer has to present his side the same way, and they're generally not particularly fond of having to do more paperwork (and are frequently surprisingly bad at it). if it makes a big difference to you, talk to a lawyer; they might have some tips for you, but sometimes just having legal representation seems to make enough of a difference that a ruling will come out in your favor. cheers! e Allan Streib wrote: Got my first speeding ticket tonight, 35 in a 20. I thought I was on an unposted stretch of road, which in town would default to a 30 limit. I cant prove I was not going 35 but seems a stretch given the road. It's a very twisty road through a wooded area with a park. Based on the presence of the park the limit is 20. I did not recall seeing any signage to this effect so I drove back over my route and found ONE 20 mph sign but it was partially obscured by spray paint vandalism. Thinking of contesting the ticket. I'm going back in the morning to take photos of the sign and document the lack of any PARK ZONE or additional speed limit signs. Anyone have a feeling whether a judge would dismiss this at a bench trial? Allan -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090715/26b265f5/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090715/0dcec18b/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: speeding
ernest breakfield wrote: try to make it clear that you would have been obeying the law if there was some way you could have known what it actually was! I once got pulled over for going past a 25mph sign at 35mph with my brakes on. AFAIK, the speed limit was 55mph on one side of that sign and 25mph on the other. I hit the brakes as soon as I went around a curve and saw the sign. No ticket, just a long going over from a 'by the book, straight from the academy' cop who was bored. It was about 1:00 AM and I think he was waiting for the nearby tavern to close. He's the only cop who ever compared the VIN on my dash with the VIN on my registration. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: speeding/comparing VIN's
Late one afternoon in '76 at George AFB, CA, (near Victorville) I had dismantled a small, surplus bridge on base and most of the long beams loaded onto my '74 Plymouth van with several feet of each protruding out the back of the van. I had attached a red flag and red reflector the end on one of the beams to improve their visibility for the night trip to my cabin 35 miles away in the San Gabriel Mountains where I planned to use the beams in the building of a deck. Almost immediately after I exited the base onto the main highway for the trip to the cabin flashing blue lights of a CHP cruiser were behind me. I pulled over thinking the officer was gonna jump me for having the beams protruding so far out the back or not having a light on them or question why I was leaving the base loaded with such beams, especially at night. He ask for my license and registration, which I immediately presented, of course. He glanced at them, handed them back and said, Sorry to have bothered you, Sir. Have a nice evening. I put my license back in my wallet, threw the registration card on the engine cover by right leg and proceeded with my trip. 'Coupla days later, I picked up the registration card and, as I started to put it back in the glove compartment, I noticed that the card was for a '64 Dodge van that I had traded a coupla years before for the '76 Plymouth van that I was driving!!! CHP officer never noticed the difference. BTW, 'have no idea what they were looking for. Wilton - Original Message - From: Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 3:16 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: speeding ernest breakfield wrote: try to make it clear that you would have been obeying the law if there was some way you could have known what it actually was! I once got pulled over for going past a 25mph sign at 35mph with my brakes on. AFAIK, the speed limit was 55mph on one side of that sign and 25mph on the other. I hit the brakes as soon as I went around a curve and saw the sign. No ticket, just a long going over from a 'by the book, straight from the academy' cop who was bored. It was about 1:00 AM and I think he was waiting for the nearby tavern to close. He's the only cop who ever compared the VIN on my dash with the VIN on my registration. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: speeding/comparing VIN's
Even back then, he may have just been checking to see if you appeared to have been drinking. You appeared sober so he let you go on your way. Randy -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]on Behalf Of WILTON Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 1:50 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: speeding/comparing VIN's Late one afternoon in '76 at George AFB, CA, (near Victorville) I had dismantled a small, surplus bridge on base and most of the long beams loaded onto my '74 Plymouth van with several feet of each protruding out the back of the van. I had attached a red flag and red reflector the end on one of the beams to improve their visibility for the night trip to my cabin 35 miles away in the San Gabriel Mountains where I planned to use the beams in the building of a deck. Almost immediately after I exited the base onto the main highway for the trip to the cabin flashing blue lights of a CHP cruiser were behind me. I pulled over thinking the officer was gonna jump me for having the beams protruding so far out the back or not having a light on them or question why I was leaving the base loaded with such beams, especially at night. He ask for my license and registration, which I immediately presented, of course. He glanced at them, handed them back and said, Sorry to have bothered you, Sir. Have a nice evening. I put my license back in my wallet, threw the registration card on the engine cover by right leg and proceeded with my trip. 'Coupla days later, I picked up the registration card and, as I started to put it back in the glove compartment, I noticed that the card was for a '64 Dodge van that I had traded a coupla years before for the '76 Plymouth van that I was driving!!! CHP officer never noticed the difference. BTW, 'have no idea what they were looking for. Wilton - Original Message - From: Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 3:16 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: speeding ernest breakfield wrote: try to make it clear that you would have been obeying the law if there was some way you could have known what it actually was! I once got pulled over for going past a 25mph sign at 35mph with my brakes on. AFAIK, the speed limit was 55mph on one side of that sign and 25mph on the other. I hit the brakes as soon as I went around a curve and saw the sign. No ticket, just a long going over from a 'by the book, straight from the academy' cop who was bored. It was about 1:00 AM and I think he was waiting for the nearby tavern to close. He's the only cop who ever compared the VIN on my dash with the VIN on my registration. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: speeding/comparing VIN's
Yeah, my thought, too. Wilton - Original Message - From: R A Bennell b...@mts.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 4:25 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: speeding/comparing VIN's Even back then, he may have just been checking to see if you appeared to have been drinking. You appeared sober so he let you go on your way. Randy -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]on Behalf Of WILTON Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 1:50 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: speeding/comparing VIN's Late one afternoon in '76 at George AFB, CA, (near Victorville) I had dismantled a small, surplus bridge on base and most of the long beams loaded onto my '74 Plymouth van with several feet of each protruding out the back of the van. I had attached a red flag and red reflector the end on one of the beams to improve their visibility for the night trip to my cabin 35 miles away in the San Gabriel Mountains where I planned to use the beams in the building of a deck. Almost immediately after I exited the base onto the main highway for the trip to the cabin flashing blue lights of a CHP cruiser were behind me. I pulled over thinking the officer was gonna jump me for having the beams protruding so far out the back or not having a light on them or question why I was leaving the base loaded with such beams, especially at night. He ask for my license and registration, which I immediately presented, of course. He glanced at them, handed them back and said, Sorry to have bothered you, Sir. Have a nice evening. I put my license back in my wallet, threw the registration card on the engine cover by right leg and proceeded with my trip. 'Coupla days later, I picked up the registration card and, as I started to put it back in the glove compartment, I noticed that the card was for a '64 Dodge van that I had traded a coupla years before for the '76 Plymouth van that I was driving!!! CHP officer never noticed the difference. BTW, 'have no idea what they were looking for. Wilton - Original Message - From: Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 3:16 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: speeding ernest breakfield wrote: try to make it clear that you would have been obeying the law if there was some way you could have known what it actually was! I once got pulled over for going past a 25mph sign at 35mph with my brakes on. AFAIK, the speed limit was 55mph on one side of that sign and 25mph on the other. I hit the brakes as soon as I went around a curve and saw the sign. No ticket, just a long going over from a 'by the book, straight from the academy' cop who was bored. It was about 1:00 AM and I think he was waiting for the nearby tavern to close. He's the only cop who ever compared the VIN on my dash with the VIN on my registration. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: speeding
Best off to just pay the thing, question is did you miss the sign or was the sign that badly vandalized that any reasonable person would not be able to make out what it was. What is the basis of your challenge? That there was only one partially obscured sign? You have to consider that a court will not go against an officer of the law unless you can absolutely prove that the issuing of the ticket was wrong. Can you do this? I recently got a red light running ticket in my truck, situation was that a bus had partially pulled into my lane whilst wanting to turn at the traffic lights, there was a car to my left and I was busy watching my mirrors and the bus to see how far over I could go, in order to not hit the car or bus. By the time I saw that the lights where just about to turn red it was too late to safely stop. I could go to court and explain the circumstances but the court would most likely say that given my experience I should have done better and stopped the truck if it was unsafe to proceed. Hendrik Allan Streib wrote: Got my first speeding ticket tonight, 35 in a 20. I thought I was on an unposted stretch of road, which in town would default to a 30 limit. I cant prove I was not going 35 but seems a stretch given the road. It's a very twisty road through a wooded area with a park. Based on the presence of the park the limit is 20. I did not recall seeing any signage to this effect so I drove back over my route and found ONE 20 mph sign but it was partially obscured by spray paint vandalism. Thinking of contesting the ticket. I'm going back in the morning to take photos of the sign and document the lack of any PARK ZONE or additional speed limit signs. Anyone have a feeling whether a judge would dismiss this at a bench trial? Allan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com