subject:"Re\: \[MBZ\] Rear Window"

That tells you the switch is good. If both switches work on the right side then 
they work. If neither works on the left side AND you've proven that window 
motor and regulator works then something between the switch and the widow is 
the problem.
IIRC if the rear switch has failed it would cause this issue. I'm betting its a 
wire in the door.
-Curt

  From: Larry Turner via Mercedes 
 To: Jim Cathey via Mercedes  
Cc: Larry Turner 
 Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 8:53 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

Ok, this is how I tested the console switch:

  * At the console I removed the LR Switch ( with the window that won't
    go up) and put it in the position of the RR switch.  Switch made RR
    window go up/down without a problem.
  * Put the switch back in the LR where it came from and it no longer
    worked.

To me that says the console switch is bad, right?

Now to confuse things, I put the known to be good RR switch in the LR 
console position - it still didn't make the window move.

In Larry's world of switch testing, that exercise told me nothing. 
Normally, swapping the switches like that would have resulted in one of 
the console switches making either window operate.  Does that tell me:

  * the wiring between the console and window is  bad?

I need to go look at the

On 02/22/2017 12:14 PM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes wrote:
> Oh, and
>
> 5) 95% of the time the switches can be disassembled and cleaned, and all is
> well.  Start with the front one.
>
> -- Jim
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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

Ah ha, now we're getting somewhere.
So now we know the motor is good and the regulator is good. You've got a couple 
potential problems:1. Dirty switch(s)2. Broken wire
Easiest is to clean or replace the switch. I used to just buy replacements from 
Rusty but I checked both Dr. Fatty and Rock Auto and couldn't find a 
replacement switch from either...
-Curt

  From: Larry Turner via Mercedes 
 To: mercedes@okiebenz.com 
Cc: Larry Turner 
 Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 8:42 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

OK Gang,

    This comment is meant for all of those who made great suggestions 
and helped me learn how the electrical system is designed specifically 
concerning the motors & switches for the rear windows.

    Back when I was younger I would have looked at the wiring 
connections going to the motor but now with the medications I am on, 
thinking is slower and less focused - (people who abuse narcotics must 
have terrible problem solving skills!).  I take my pain meds. as 
prescribed or at lower rates than prescribed and still have trouble.

    Anyway, after reading all the great descriptions and suggestions 
the light finally came on and I could see what several said about 
putting + and - from a separate source.  There's a connector on the 
rear door panel that is where the switch connections attach to the motor 
connections.  I removed the motor wiring and attached 12v from one of my 
spare batteries - I had it backwards at first and got a spark - so I 
reversed the wires and the glass went up as it always has up until a few 
days ago.

Thanks for all the help -

LarryT

91 300D

On 02/22/2017 6:35 PM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes wrote:
> It's fairly common for the brushes to burn the commutator in the closed 
> position, as it's hard not to hold the switch down a second after the window 
> is up, causing excessive current flow.
>
> Obviously, tapping on the motor will bounce the brushes enough to get the 
> motor off the stalled position, and it will work for a while after that.
>
> I believe you need the regulator in the down position to get it out of the 
> door, at least you do on the front doors.
>
> Brown is ground.
>
> Peter
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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window


Ok, this is how I tested the console switch:

 * At the console I removed the LR Switch ( with the window that won't
   go up) and put it in the position of the RR switch.   Switch made RR
   window go up/down without a problem.
 * Put the switch back in the LR where it came from and it no longer
   worked.

To me that says the console switch is bad, right?

Now to confuse things, I put the known to be good RR switch in the LR 
console position - it still didn't make the window move.


In Larry's world of switch testing, that exercise told me nothing. 
Normally, swapping the switches like that would have resulted in one of 
the console switches making either window operate.  Does that tell me:


 * the wiring between the console and window is  bad?

I need to go look at the


On 02/22/2017 12:14 PM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes wrote:

Oh, and

5) 95% of the time the switches can be disassembled and cleaned, and all is
well.  Start with the front one.

-- Jim
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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window


Hey Craig,

I hope I didn't get this confused -- I sent them to Dan Penoff - I 
could have sworn he said to send them direct to him


Was that wrong?

LarryT


On 02/22/2017 5:45 PM, Craig via Mercedes wrote:

On Wed, 22 Feb 2017 16:46:59 -0500 Larry Turner via Mercedes
 wrote:


OK -- The photo with a circle around the 2 connectors going to the
motor
- I believe these 2 connections can be swapped to make the window go
up. I hope.

But no photos have come through. Did you send a separate email to Dan
asking him to approve the photos?


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window


OK Gang,

This comment is meant for all of those who made great suggestions 
and helped me learn how the electrical system is designed specifically 
concerning the motors & switches for the rear windows.


Back when I was younger I would have looked at the wiring 
connections going to the motor but now with the medications I am on, 
thinking is slower and less focused - (people who abuse narcotics must 
have terrible problem solving skills!).  I take my pain meds. as 
prescribed or at lower rates than prescribed and still have trouble.


Anyway, after reading all the great descriptions and suggestions 
the light finally came on and I could see what several said about 
putting + and - from a separate source.   There's a connector on the 
rear door panel that is where the switch connections attach to the motor 
connections.  I removed the motor wiring and attached 12v from one of my 
spare batteries - I had it backwards at first and got a spark - so I 
reversed the wires and the glass went up as it always has up until a few 
days ago.



Thanks for all the help -

LarryT

91 300D


On 02/22/2017 6:35 PM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes wrote:

It's fairly common for the brushes to burn the commutator in the closed 
position, as it's hard not to hold the switch down a second after the window is 
up, causing excessive current flow.

Obviously, tapping on the motor will bounce the brushes enough to get the motor 
off the stalled position, and it will work for a while after that.

I believe you need the regulator in the down position to get it out of the 
door, at least you do on the front doors.

Brown is ground.

Peter
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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

You're actually right that a ground is a ground, the mis-think was that your 
battery wasn't grounded ;)
-Curt


  From: Larry Turner via Mercedes 
 To: Curt Raymond via Mercedes  
Cc: Larry Turner 
 Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 8:14 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Rear Window
   
Thanks Curt - Where my thinking got distorted was I thought a ground was 
a ground - and it didn't matter if it was a ground that matched the 
positive.

I appreciate the explanation - very helpful!

LarryT




On 02/22/2017 7:47 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
> That just isn't how electricity works. The ground from one battery can't 
> magically make the leap to the other one, for that to work you'd have to have 
> the two batteries negative poles connected...
> -Curt
>
>        From: Larry Turner via Mercedes 
>  To: MG via Mercedes 
> Cc: Larry Turner 
>  Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 4:37 PM
>  Subject: Re: [MBZ] Rear Window
>    
> Hello Manfred,
>
>      I tested the battery I used and it has 12.74V.  I connected a +
> wire between battery and wiring connection - did not connect a (-) wire
> for negative assuming the vehicle battery and its ground should
> work...  I know, it's bad to assume. ;-)
>
> You think I should test the wire I used?  It was a pretty heavy wire -
> much heavier than the wires going to the motor from the switch...
>
> Larry
>
>
> On 02/22/2017 12:44 PM, MG via Mercedes wrote:
>> Did you make sure that the wires you used to carry the 12 volts to the
>> screws were actually carrying 12 volts. Don't ask, had that happen
>> before. Did you try applying the wires in both orientations? Applied
>> one way, the motor will turn in one direction. Switch the wires around
>> and the motor should turn in the other direction.
>>
>> Manfred
>>
>> Larry Turner via Mercedes wrote:
>>> They definitely swap side to side and _not _front to rear.
>>>
>>> I swapped the 2 rear switches and the LR works on both sides and the
>>> RR does not work on either side,  I took photos of the regulator
>>> showing the cable.  It looks like replacing the regulator will be a
>>> bear! Tell me I'm wrong - please.  But I don't think I am.
>>>
>>> Next, I put 12V to the +/- posts and got zilch from the motor. Now it
>>> looks like I will need to replace the regulator. Fortunately the
>>> weather is going to be warm for the next few days.
>>>
>>> Thanks guys - I appreciate all the help -  BTW i I can send the
>>> photos if anyone is interested??
>>>
>>> LarryT
>>>
>>> 91 300D
>>>
>>>
>>> On 02/21/2017 4:28 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote:
>>>> I don't remember for sure if they swap front to back or side to side, I
>>>> think front to back, but they can be swapped around to trouble-shoot.
>>>>
>>>> -
>>>> Max
>>>> Charleston SC
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 4:25 PM, OK Don via Mercedes
>>>> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> What Max said. IIRC, the if the console switch is bad, the door
>>>>> switch will
>>>>> not work. The left and right console switches are interchangeable
>>>>> (as are
>>>>> the door switches) - just swap them and see if that fixes the issue.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 2:51 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes <
>>>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> When I suspected a bad switch in The White Whale (124.193 aka
>>>>>> 300TD) I
>>>>>> simply moved switches around and verified the issue, rolled the
>>>>>> window up
>>>>>> and left the working switch in the spot that I needed it most
>>>>>> until I had
>>>>>> time to visit the knackers and harvest a replacement.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -
>>>>>> Max
>>>>>> Charleston SC
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> ___
>>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>>>
>>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>>>
>>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>&

Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

Thanks Curt - Where my thinking got distorted was I thought a ground was 
a ground - and it didn't matter if it was a ground that matched the 
positive.


I appreciate the explanation - very helpful!

LarryT




On 02/22/2017 7:47 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

That just isn't how electricity works. The ground from one battery can't 
magically make the leap to the other one, for that to work you'd have to have 
the two batteries negative poles connected...
-Curt

   From: Larry Turner via Mercedes 
  To: MG via Mercedes 
Cc: Larry Turner 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 4:37 PM
  Subject: Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

Hello Manfred,


 I tested the battery I used and it has 12.74V.  I connected a +
wire between battery and wiring connection - did not connect a (-) wire
for negative assuming the vehicle battery and its ground should
work...  I know, it's bad to assume. ;-)

You think I should test the wire I used?  It was a pretty heavy wire -
much heavier than the wires going to the motor from the switch...

Larry


On 02/22/2017 12:44 PM, MG via Mercedes wrote:

Did you make sure that the wires you used to carry the 12 volts to the
screws were actually carrying 12 volts. Don't ask, had that happen
before. Did you try applying the wires in both orientations? Applied
one way, the motor will turn in one direction. Switch the wires around
and the motor should turn in the other direction.

Manfred

Larry Turner via Mercedes wrote:

They definitely swap side to side and _not _front to rear.

I swapped the 2 rear switches and the LR works on both sides and the
RR does not work on either side,  I took photos of the regulator
showing the cable.  It looks like replacing the regulator will be a
bear! Tell me I'm wrong - please.  But I don't think I am.

Next, I put 12V to the +/- posts and got zilch from the motor. Now it
looks like I will need to replace the regulator. Fortunately the
weather is going to be warm for the next few days.

Thanks guys - I appreciate all the help -  BTW i I can send the
photos if anyone is interested??

LarryT

91 300D


On 02/21/2017 4:28 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote:

I don't remember for sure if they swap front to back or side to side, I
think front to back, but they can be swapped around to trouble-shoot.

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 4:25 PM, OK Don via Mercedes

wrote:


What Max said. IIRC, the if the console switch is bad, the door
switch will
not work. The left and right console switches are interchangeable
(as are
the door switches) - just swap them and see if that fixes the issue.

On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 2:51 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


When I suspected a bad switch in The White Whale (124.193 aka
300TD) I
simply moved switches around and verified the issue, rolled the
window up
and left the working switch in the spot that I needed it most
until I had
time to visit the knackers and harvest a replacement.

-
Max
Charleston SC





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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

That just isn't how electricity works. The ground from one battery can't 
magically make the leap to the other one, for that to work you'd have to have 
the two batteries negative poles connected...
-Curt

  From: Larry Turner via Mercedes 
 To: MG via Mercedes  
Cc: Larry Turner 
 Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 4:37 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Rear Window
   
Hello Manfred,

    I tested the battery I used and it has 12.74V.  I connected a + 
wire between battery and wiring connection - did not connect a (-) wire 
for negative assuming the vehicle battery and its ground should 
work...  I know, it's bad to assume. ;-)

You think I should test the wire I used?  It was a pretty heavy wire - 
much heavier than the wires going to the motor from the switch...

Larry


On 02/22/2017 12:44 PM, MG via Mercedes wrote:
> Did you make sure that the wires you used to carry the 12 volts to the 
> screws were actually carrying 12 volts. Don't ask, had that happen 
> before. Did you try applying the wires in both orientations? Applied 
> one way, the motor will turn in one direction. Switch the wires around 
> and the motor should turn in the other direction.
>
> Manfred
>
> Larry Turner via Mercedes wrote:
>> They definitely swap side to side and _not _front to rear.
>>
>> I swapped the 2 rear switches and the LR works on both sides and the 
>> RR does not work on either side,  I took photos of the regulator 
>> showing the cable.  It looks like replacing the regulator will be a 
>> bear! Tell me I'm wrong - please.  But I don't think I am.
>>
>> Next, I put 12V to the +/- posts and got zilch from the motor. Now it 
>> looks like I will need to replace the regulator. Fortunately the 
>> weather is going to be warm for the next few days.
>>
>> Thanks guys - I appreciate all the help -  BTW i I can send the 
>> photos if anyone is interested??
>>
>> LarryT
>>
>> 91 300D
>>
>>
>> On 02/21/2017 4:28 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote:
>>> I don't remember for sure if they swap front to back or side to side, I
>>> think front to back, but they can be swapped around to trouble-shoot.
>>>
>>> -
>>> Max
>>> Charleston SC
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 4:25 PM, OK Don via Mercedes 
>>> 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> What Max said. IIRC, the if the console switch is bad, the door 
>>>> switch will
>>>> not work. The left and right console switches are interchangeable 
>>>> (as are
>>>> the door switches) - just swap them and see if that fixes the issue.
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 2:51 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes <
>>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> When I suspected a bad switch in The White Whale (124.193 aka 
>>>>> 300TD) I
>>>>> simply moved switches around and verified the issue, rolled the 
>>>>> window up
>>>>> and left the working switch in the spot that I needed it most 
>>>>> until I had
>>>>> time to visit the knackers and harvest a replacement.
>>>>>
>>>>> -
>>>>> Max
>>>>> Charleston SC
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>>
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>>>
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>>
>>>
>>
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>>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

Its what Photobucket is really good for. I post links to my Pbucket pictures, 
if you want to go look then go ahead...
-Curt

  From: fmiser via Mercedes 
 To: mercedes@okiebenz.com 
Cc: fmiser 
 Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 4:42 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

> OK, they are all above 1000KB

Multiple 1 Meg photos?

*sigh*

Not all of us have un-metered, broadband connections.  That means
big files are a pain, cost money, or both.

I _really_ liked it when big attachments were NOT sent to the
list and just a link to the file was sent.  That way if I didn't
need - or care - about the big file I didn't have to deal with it.

40k I won't complain about.  Half a dozen 1+ MB files?  Yeah,
I'll gripe.

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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

2017-02-22 Thread Curley McLain via Mercedes


Pretty early for iris to poke up!


Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
February 22, 2017 at 5:35 PM
It's fairly common for the brushes to burn the commutator in the 
closed position, as it's hard not to hold the switch down a second 
after the window is up, causing excessive current flow.


Obviously, tapping on the motor will bounce the brushes enough to get 
the motor off the stalled position, and it will work for a while after 
that.


I believe you need the regulator in the down position to get it out of 
the door, at least you do on the front doors.


Brown is ground.

Peter
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Larry Turner via Mercedes 
February 22, 2017 at 7:00 AM
Thanks Peter -

I did much of that yesterday with the door card removed (and the 
switch) I applied 12v to the 2 studs on the door that have wires 
attached.  I didn't think about pushing the console button while I had 
12 V attached - will do that today.


Btw, which colored wired are ground Brown? Black?  or ?

So I'm thinking I need to put 12V on the wire connection positions  
and see if the motor has any reaction.   I will try tapping the motor 
as well.


 * Is this the way these motors normally die?  i.e., they work fine one
   day and are non-responsive the next day?
 * Should I be putting 12v on the switch wires or down on the middle of
   the door where there are 2 places where wires are attached?
 * Or maybe it doesn't matter?
 * Don't know if you saw my comment about me hearing a "bump" when I
   push the console button?   It sounds like the motor is trying to
   move but can't.
 * Does that tell me the motor is locked up and is physically prevented
   from moving?

Thanks for your suggestions.

Larry



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Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
February 21, 2017 at 5:02 PM
Try removing the switch and applying battery voltage to the wires 
directly. A bad switch can keep either from working.


You may have to tap on the motor, too.

A broken wire in the door is also a possibility, in which case voltage 
to the plug at the switch in the door will work -- I have one window 
in the TE that did this, pulled the console switch because Mom kept 
putting it down and letting it rain into the car.


Peter
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Larry Turner via Mercedes 
February 21, 2017 at 4:47 AM
Hi Gang,

I rolled the Left Rear Window down and now it won't go back up.   
The door switch will not move it and the console switch also fails to 
move it.


 I cannot get the motor to move the window Up as it's in the full 
down position.


I am thinking either the motor is bad or the gears are locked, 
Does that about cover it?


Thanks ya'll,

LarryT

91 300D

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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

2017-02-22 Thread Curley McLain via Mercedes

Neither wire for the window motor is brown, because neither is a 
ground.  both return the the switch.  The ground is made by the switch.  
The function is to supply +12v to one wire and a ground to the other for 
one way,  and then revers which one is grounded and which is hot to go 
the other direction.



Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
February 22, 2017 at 5:35 PM
It's fairly common for the brushes to burn the commutator in the 
closed position, as it's hard not to hold the switch down a second 
after the window is up, causing excessive current flow.


Obviously, tapping on the motor will bounce the brushes enough to get 
the motor off the stalled position, and it will work for a while after 
that.


I believe you need the regulator in the down position to get it out of 
the door, at least you do on the front doors.


Brown is ground.

Peter


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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

2017-02-22 Thread Peter Frederick via Mercedes

It's fairly common for the brushes to burn the commutator in the closed 
position, as it's hard not to hold the switch down a second after the window is 
up, causing excessive current flow.

Obviously, tapping on the motor will bounce the brushes enough to get the motor 
off the stalled position, and it will work for a while after that.

I believe you need the regulator in the down position to get it out of the 
door, at least you do on the front doors.

Brown is ground.

Peter
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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

2017-02-22 Thread Craig via Mercedes

On Wed, 22 Feb 2017 16:46:59 -0500 Larry Turner via Mercedes
 wrote:

> OK -- The photo with a circle around the 2 connectors going to the
> motor 
> - I believe these 2 connections can be swapped to make the window go
> up. I hope.

But no photos have come through. Did you send a separate email to Dan
asking him to approve the photos?


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

2017-02-22 Thread Craig via Mercedes

On Wed, 22 Feb 2017 15:42:59 -0600 fmiser via Mercedes
 wrote:

> I _really_ liked it when big attachments were NOT sent to the
> list and just a link to the file was sent.  That way if I didn't
> need - or care - about the big file I didn't have to deal with it.

That's what I suggested the last time this came up. Nothing happened.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window


IMG 1945-1.jpg

If it's a PITA, just post the above - it's the more clear with the best 
detail.  I included the others so people could see how the window is put 
together.


Sorry - I hope that makes life easier.

Larry


On 02/22/2017 4:42 PM, fmiser via Mercedes wrote:

OK, they are all above 1000KB


Multiple 1 Meg photos?

*sigh*

Not all of us have un-metered, broadband connections.  That means
big files are a pain, cost money, or both.

I _really_ liked it when big attachments were NOT sent to the
list and just a link to the file was sent.  That way if I didn't
need - or care - about the big file I didn't have to deal with it.

40k I won't complain about.  Half a dozen 1+ MB files?  Yeah,
I'll gripe.

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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

OK -- The photo with a circle around the 2 connectors going to the motor 
- I believe these 2 connections can be swapped to make the window go up. 
I hope.


thx

Larry


On 02/22/2017 4:47 PM, fmiser via Mercedes wrote:

Larry wrote:



If the console switch is dirty, will that cause the door switch
to fail to operate also?


It can.

The console is in series with the door switch.
Here's how it works.
 * The window moves when a DC motor runs.  When it runs one way,
   it rolls the window down, and when it runs the other way, the
   window goes up.
 * DC motors are very easy to switch direction - just swap the
   "plus" and the "minus" power leads.
 * There are two switches for each back-door window - the console
   and the one on the door.  Since bad things would happen if both
   "plus" and "minus" were each applied to each motor lead (one
   switch pressed "UP" and the other "DOWN") the switches are in
   series
 * Therefore, if _either_ one is not making good connection the window
   won't work right.  It will go up only, or go down only - or neither.

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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window


Thanks Randy!  More good news!

;-)


On 02/22/2017 12:50 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes wrote:

On 22/02/2017 11:45 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:
Right, and just to be clear, the motor must be separated from the car 
circuit, either at the screws in the terminal in the door, or as Jim 
suggested, pull the switch in the console.  You must connect both+12v 
and a negative to test the motor one way.  Then flip + and - and test 
the other direction.



MG via Mercedes 
February 22, 2017 at 11:44 AM
Did you make sure that the wires you used to carry the 12 volts to 
the screws were actually carrying 12 volts. Don't ask, had that 
happen before. Did you try applying the wires in both orientations? 
Applied one way, the motor will turn in one direction. Switch the 
wires around and the motor should turn in the other direction.


Manfred



And if applying power at the switch does not make the motor run, then 
one might wish to apply power at the motor before tearing the works 
out (if possible) to ensure it is not just broken wires in the area 
where the door opens and closes.


RB

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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

2017-02-22 Thread fmiser via Mercedes


Larry wrote:



If the console switch is dirty, will that cause the door switch
to fail to operate also?


It can.

The console is in series with the door switch.
Here's how it works.
 * The window moves when a DC motor runs.  When it runs one way,
   it rolls the window down, and when it runs the other way, the
   window goes up.
 * DC motors are very easy to switch direction - just swap the
   "plus" and the "minus" power leads.
 * There are two switches for each back-door window - the console
   and the one on the door.  Since bad things would happen if both
   "plus" and "minus" were each applied to each motor lead (one
   switch pressed "UP" and the other "DOWN") the switches are in
   series
 * Therefore, if _either_ one is not making good connection the window
   won't work right.  It will go up only, or go down only - or neither.

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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

OK, I understand, I will connect my extra battery with 12 plus volts and 
the extra battery's Negative and connect to the wiring going to the motor.


I just sent another photo with a circle showing the wiring connected to 
the motor - that's where I will put the test connections.


I gotta go to the garage again and check something.  A

Larry


On 02/22/2017 12:45 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:
Right, and just to be clear, the motor must be separated from the car 
circuit, either at the screws in the terminal in the door, or as Jim 
suggested, pull the switch in the console.  You must connect both+12v 
and a negative to test the motor one way.  Then flip + and - and test 
the other direction.



MG via Mercedes 
February 22, 2017 at 11:44 AM
Did you make sure that the wires you used to carry the 12 volts to 
the screws were actually carrying 12 volts. Don't ask, had that 
happen before. Did you try applying the wires in both orientations? 
Applied one way, the motor will turn in one direction. Switch the 
wires around and the motor should turn in the other direction.


Manfred



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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window


Hello Manfred,

I tested the battery I used and it has 12.74V.  I connected a + 
wire between battery and wiring connection - did not connect a (-) wire 
for negative assuming the vehicle battery and its ground should 
work...   I know, it's bad to assume. ;-)


You think I should test the wire I used?  It was a pretty heavy wire - 
much heavier than the wires going to the motor from the switch...


Larry


On 02/22/2017 12:44 PM, MG via Mercedes wrote:
Did you make sure that the wires you used to carry the 12 volts to the 
screws were actually carrying 12 volts. Don't ask, had that happen 
before. Did you try applying the wires in both orientations? Applied 
one way, the motor will turn in one direction. Switch the wires around 
and the motor should turn in the other direction.


Manfred

Larry Turner via Mercedes wrote:

They definitely swap side to side and _not _front to rear.

I swapped the 2 rear switches and the LR works on both sides and the 
RR does not work on either side,  I took photos of the regulator 
showing the cable.  It looks like replacing the regulator will be a 
bear! Tell me I'm wrong - please.  But I don't think I am.


Next, I put 12V to the +/- posts and got zilch from the motor. Now it 
looks like I will need to replace the regulator. Fortunately the 
weather is going to be warm for the next few days.


Thanks guys - I appreciate all the help -  BTW i I can send the 
photos if anyone is interested??


LarryT

91 300D


On 02/21/2017 4:28 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote:

I don't remember for sure if they swap front to back or side to side, I
think front to back, but they can be swapped around to trouble-shoot.

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 4:25 PM, OK Don via Mercedes 


wrote:

What Max said. IIRC, the if the console switch is bad, the door 
switch will
not work. The left and right console switches are interchangeable 
(as are

the door switches) - just swap them and see if that fixes the issue.

On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 2:51 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

When I suspected a bad switch in The White Whale (124.193 aka 
300TD) I
simply moved switches around and verified the issue, rolled the 
window up
and left the working switch in the spot that I needed it most 
until I had

time to visit the knackers and harvest a replacement.

-
Max
Charleston SC






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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

2017-02-22 Thread fmiser via Mercedes


OK, they are all above 1000KB


Multiple 1 Meg photos?

*sigh*

Not all of us have un-metered, broadband connections.  That means
big files are a pain, cost money, or both.

I _really_ liked it when big attachments were NOT sent to the
list and just a link to the file was sent.  That way if I didn't
need - or care - about the big file I didn't have to deal with it.

40k I won't complain about.  Half a dozen 1+ MB files?  Yeah,
I'll gripe.

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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

2017-02-22 Thread Dan--- via Mercedes

If I recall, these motors have a thermal protection device in them to prevent 
overloading. I have seen these fail and render the motor useless (until you 
jumper across them, of course.)

Dan

Sent from my iPad

> On Feb 22, 2017, at 12:50 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
>> On 22/02/2017 11:45 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:
>> Right, and just to be clear, the motor must be separated from the car 
>> circuit, either at the screws in the terminal in the door, or as Jim 
>> suggested, pull the switch in the console.  You must connect both+12v and a 
>> negative to test the motor one way.  Then flip + and - and test the other 
>> direction.
>> 
>>> MG via Mercedes 
>>> February 22, 2017 at 11:44 AM
>>> Did you make sure that the wires you used to carry the 12 volts to the 
>>> screws were actually carrying 12 volts. Don't ask, had that happen before. 
>>> Did you try applying the wires in both orientations? Applied one way, the 
>>> motor will turn in one direction. Switch the wires around and the motor 
>>> should turn in the other direction.
>>> 
>>> Manfred
>>> 
> 
> And if applying power at the switch does not make the motor run, then one 
> might wish to apply power at the motor before tearing the works out (if 
> possible) to ensure it is not just broken wires in the area where the door 
> opens and closes.
> 
> RB
> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> 
> 


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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

2017-02-22 Thread MG via Mercedes


Or just disconnect the rear door switch since you are there already.

Manfred

Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:
Right, and just to be clear, the motor must be separated from the car 
circuit, either at the screws in the terminal in the door, or as Jim 
suggested, pull the switch in the console.  You must connect both+12v 
and a negative to test the motor one way.  Then flip + and - and test 
the other direction.



MG via Mercedes 
February 22, 2017 at 11:44 AM
Did you make sure that the wires you used to carry the 12 volts to the 
screws were actually carrying 12 volts. Don't ask, had that happen 
before. Did you try applying the wires in both orientations? Applied 
one way, the motor will turn in one direction. Switch the wires around 
and the motor should turn in the other direction.


Manfred



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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

2017-02-22 Thread Randy Bennell via Mercedes


On 22/02/2017 11:45 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:
Right, and just to be clear, the motor must be separated from the car 
circuit, either at the screws in the terminal in the door, or as Jim 
suggested, pull the switch in the console.  You must connect both+12v 
and a negative to test the motor one way.  Then flip + and - and test 
the other direction.



MG via Mercedes 
February 22, 2017 at 11:44 AM
Did you make sure that the wires you used to carry the 12 volts to 
the screws were actually carrying 12 volts. Don't ask, had that 
happen before. Did you try applying the wires in both orientations? 
Applied one way, the motor will turn in one direction. Switch the 
wires around and the motor should turn in the other direction.


Manfred



And if applying power at the switch does not make the motor run, then 
one might wish to apply power at the motor before tearing the works out 
(if possible) to ensure it is not just broken wires in the area where 
the door opens and closes.


RB

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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

2017-02-22 Thread Curley McLain via Mercedes

Right, and just to be clear, the motor must be separated from the car 
circuit, either at the screws in the terminal in the door, or as Jim 
suggested, pull the switch in the console.  You must connect both+12v 
and a negative to test the motor one way.  Then flip + and - and test 
the other direction.



MG via Mercedes 
February 22, 2017 at 11:44 AM
Did you make sure that the wires you used to carry the 12 volts to the 
screws were actually carrying 12 volts. Don't ask, had that happen 
before. Did you try applying the wires in both orientations? Applied 
one way, the motor will turn in one direction. Switch the wires around 
and the motor should turn in the other direction.


Manfred



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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

2017-02-22 Thread MG via Mercedes

Did you make sure that the wires you used to carry the 12 volts 
to the screws were actually carrying 12 volts. Don't ask, had 
that happen before. Did you try applying the wires in both 
orientations? Applied one way, the motor will turn in one 
direction. Switch the wires around and the motor should turn in 
the other direction.


Manfred

Larry Turner via Mercedes wrote:

They definitely swap side to side and _not _front to rear.

I swapped the 2 rear switches and the LR works on both sides and the RR 
does not work on either side,  I took photos of the regulator showing 
the cable.  It looks like replacing the regulator will be a bear! Tell 
me I'm wrong - please.  But I don't think I am.


Next, I put 12V to the +/- posts and got zilch from the motor.  Now it 
looks like I will need to replace the regulator.Fortunately the 
weather is going to be warm for the next few days.


Thanks guys - I appreciate all the help -  BTW i I can send the photos 
if anyone is interested??


LarryT

91 300D


On 02/21/2017 4:28 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote:

I don't remember for sure if they swap front to back or side to side, I
think front to back, but they can be swapped around to trouble-shoot.

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 4:25 PM, OK Don via Mercedes 


wrote:

What Max said. IIRC, the if the console switch is bad, the door 
switch will
not work. The left and right console switches are interchangeable (as 
are

the door switches) - just swap them and see if that fixes the issue.

On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 2:51 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


When I suspected a bad switch in The White Whale (124.193 aka 300TD) I
simply moved switches around and verified the issue, rolled the 
window up
and left the working switch in the spot that I needed it most until 
I had

time to visit the knackers and harvest a replacement.

-
Max
Charleston SC






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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

2017-02-22 Thread Jim Cathey via Mercedes

Oh, and

5) 95% of the time the switches can be disassembled and cleaned, and all is
well.  Start with the front one.

-- Jim
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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

2017-02-22 Thread Jim Cathey via Mercedes

You are trying to make the system more complicated than it is.  It's
actually fairly simple.  Some basic ground rules:

1) The front and rear switches are in SERIES, if EITHER switch has ANY
problem something won't work right.  It might not go up, it might not go
down, it might not work at all.  (These are 100% analogous to a 3-way
switch pair in your house lighting.)  The front switch, laying supine as it
does, is usually at fault.  Full of dirt, grit, dried cola...  If the front
switch has a problem, NOTHING you do in the back of the car will fix it.

2) The motor is bidirectional, and there IS NO DEDICATED GROUND.  Running
one way one wire has +12V on it and the other has 0V on it (ground);
running the other way the exact opposite is true.  I THINK that when idle
both lines are at 12V measured to ground, but I'm not positive.

3) Wires in the door can break, or elsewhere.  From the terminals on the
door you should be able to, if you hook +12V and ground to both of them,
drive the motor both ways.  There are no limit switches, the motors are
carefully designed to stall 'safely'.  Don't drive the motor from the
terminal with the switch still plugged in, you don't want to get in a fight
with the car's own wiring for the motor.

4) Occam's razor.  It is likely that you only have ONE problem, not two or
more.  And the switches are by far, at a 10:1 or greater probability, to be
at fault in a no motion, no sound scenario.  And, if motion or sound only
occurs in one direction, the switches are 100% at fault. 100%.

-- Jim
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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

2017-02-22 Thread Floyd Thursby via Mercedes

First thing is to take the switches apart and clean them, you can put a 
meter on them too for a continuity test to see if they are actually 
passing electrons.  Switches are a lot easier to deal with than a regulator.


The other thing is that you can take the motor apart once you get the 
regulator out and the motor off and see if it is buggered and goobered 
up.  Or if the regulator is somehow messed up to where it can be fixed.


Lots of cheepcheep approaches to try first.

--FT


On 2/22/17 8:28 AM, Larry Turner via Mercedes wrote:

Hi Max,

Yeah, I understand that - but moving the known good switch to LR door 
position gets no reaction from the motor.  It still doesn't move.  If 
I put that same switch on the RR the window goes up and down as it 
should.


So, I am getting nothing from the LR Door Motor except a barely 
perceptible  bump regardless which switch I use.


Hmmm...

I must run errands for a few hours --  back mid afternoon.

Larry

Larry



On 02/22/2017 8:04 AM, Max Dillon via Mercedes wrote:
Larry, if moving a switch would make both windows go up and down, 
then the problem is in the other switch which won't make windows go 
up and down, not in the regulator.


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--
--FT
Winston Churchill:
“Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or 
petty,
never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense.
Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the 
enemy.”


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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window


Hi Max,

Yeah, I understand that - but moving the known good switch to LR door 
position gets no reaction from the motor.  It still doesn't move.  If I 
put that same switch on the RR the window goes up and down as it should.


So, I am getting nothing from the LR Door Motor except a barely 
perceptible  bump regardless which switch I use.


Hmmm...

I must run errands for a few hours --  back mid afternoon.

Larry

Larry



On 02/22/2017 8:04 AM, Max Dillon via Mercedes wrote:

Larry, if moving a switch would make both windows go up and down, then the 
problem is in the other switch which won't make windows go up and down, not in 
the regulator.


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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

OK, they are all above 1000KB so you will need to approve them.  
Actually I will go ahead and send them following this message so you'll 
know they're on the way.


Preparing to send now,

Thanks for the suggestions -

Larry


On 02/22/2017 7:04 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

Larry,

The photos need to be under 40k per message to get through.  If you send them 
larger than that they’ll go in the approval queue, so drop me a private message 
so I know they’re there and I’ll approve them.

Dan




On Feb 22, 2017, at 6:53 AM, Larry Turner via Mercedes  
wrote:

They definitely swap side to side and _not _front to rear.

I swapped the 2 rear switches and the LR works on both sides and the RR does 
not work on either side,  I took photos of the regulator showing the cable.  It 
looks like replacing the regulator will be a bear! Tell me I'm wrong - please.  
But I don't think I am.

Next, I put 12V to the +/- posts and got zilch from the motor.  Now it looks 
like I will need to replace the regulator.Fortunately the weather is going 
to be warm for the next few days.

Thanks guys - I appreciate all the help -  BTW i I can send the photos if 
anyone is interested??

LarryT

91 300D


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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window


Ok Jim, I will take the switch from the RR door to see if that works.

Thanks for another great suggestion.

Larry


On 02/21/2017 11:14 PM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes wrote:

Every time I've had a window that would only go one way, noise in only one
direction, it has been a dirty switch problem.

-- Jim
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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

2017-02-22 Thread Max Dillon via Mercedes

Larry, if moving a switch would make both windows go up and down, then the 
problem is in the other switch which won't make windows go up and down, not in 
the regulator.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On February 22, 2017 6:53:02 AM EST, Larry Turner via Mercedes 
 wrote:
>They definitely swap side to side and _not _front to rear.
>
>I swapped the 2 rear switches and the LR works on both sides and the RR
>
>does not work on either side,  I took photos of the regulator showing 
>the cable.  It looks like replacing the regulator will be a bear! Tell 
>me I'm wrong - please.  But I don't think I am.
>
>Next, I put 12V to the +/- posts and got zilch from the motor.  Now it 
>looks like I will need to replace the regulator.Fortunately the 
>weather is going to be warm for the next few days.
>
>Thanks guys - I appreciate all the help -  BTW i I can send the photos 
>if anyone is interested??
>
>LarryT
>
>91 300D
>
>
>On 02/21/2017 4:28 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote:
>> I don't remember for sure if they swap front to back or side to side,
>I
>> think front to back, but they can be swapped around to trouble-shoot.
>>
>> -
>> Max
>> Charleston SC
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 4:25 PM, OK Don via Mercedes
>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> What Max said. IIRC, the if the console switch is bad, the door
>switch will
>>> not work. The left and right console switches are interchangeable
>(as are
>>> the door switches) - just swap them and see if that fixes the issue.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 2:51 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>>
 When I suspected a bad switch in The White Whale (124.193 aka
>300TD) I
 simply moved switches around and verified the issue, rolled the
>window up
 and left the working switch in the spot that I needed it most until
>I had
 time to visit the knackers and harvest a replacement.

 -
 Max
 Charleston SC

>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

2017-02-22 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes

Brown is ground in MBs.  Makes sense, doesn't it? Unless you live somewhere 
that the dirt is a different color...

-D

> On Feb 22, 2017, at 8:00 AM, Larry Turner via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Thanks Peter -
> 
>I did much of that yesterday with the door card removed (and the switch) I 
> applied 12v to the 2 studs on the door that have wires attached.  I didn't 
> think about pushing the console button while I had 12 V attached - will do 
> that today.
> 
> Btw, which colored wired are ground Brown? Black?  or ?
> 
> So I'm thinking I need to put 12V on the wire connection positions  and see 
> if the motor has any reaction.   I will try tapping the motor as well.
> 
> * Is this the way these motors normally die?  i.e., they work fine one
>   day and are non-responsive the next day?
> * Should I be putting 12v on the switch wires or down on the middle of
>   the door where there are 2 places where wires are attached?
> * Or maybe it doesn't matter?
> * Don't know if you saw my comment about me hearing a "bump" when I
>   push the console button?   It sounds like the motor is trying to
>   move but can't.
> * Does that tell me the motor is locked up and is physically prevented
>   from moving?
> 
> Thanks for your suggestions.
> 
> Larry
> 
>> On 02/21/2017 6:02 PM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes wrote:
>> Try removing the switch and applying battery voltage to the wires directly.  
>> A bad switch can keep either from working.
>> 
>> You may have to tap on the motor, too.
>> 
>> A broken wire in the door is also a possibility, in which case voltage to 
>> the plug at the switch in the door will work -- I have one window in the TE 
>> that did this, pulled the console switch because Mom kept putting it down 
>> and letting it rain into the car.
>> 
>> Peter
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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window


Thanks Peter -

I did much of that yesterday with the door card removed (and the 
switch) I applied 12v to the 2 studs on the door that have wires 
attached.  I didn't think about pushing the console button while I had 
12 V attached - will do that today.


Btw, which colored wired are ground Brown? Black?  or ?

So I'm thinking I need to put 12V on the wire connection positions  and 
see if the motor has any reaction.   I will try tapping the motor as well.


 * Is this the way these motors normally die?  i.e., they work fine one
   day and are non-responsive the next day?
 * Should I be putting 12v on the switch wires or down on the middle of
   the door where there are 2 places where wires are attached?
 * Or maybe it doesn't matter?
 * Don't know if you saw my comment about me hearing a "bump" when I
   push the console button?   It sounds like the motor is trying to
   move but can't.
 * Does that tell me the motor is locked up and is physically prevented
   from moving?

Thanks for your suggestions.

Larry

On 02/21/2017 6:02 PM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes wrote:

Try removing the switch and applying battery voltage to the wires directly.  A 
bad switch can keep either from working.

You may have to tap on the motor, too.

A broken wire in the door is also a possibility, in which case voltage to the 
plug at the switch in the door will work -- I have one window in the TE that 
did this, pulled the console switch because Mom kept putting it down and 
letting it rain into the car.

Peter
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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

2017-02-22 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes

Larry,

The photos need to be under 40k per message to get through.  If you send them 
larger than that they’ll go in the approval queue, so drop me a private message 
so I know they’re there and I’ll approve them.

Dan



> On Feb 22, 2017, at 6:53 AM, Larry Turner via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> They definitely swap side to side and _not _front to rear.
> 
> I swapped the 2 rear switches and the LR works on both sides and the RR does 
> not work on either side,  I took photos of the regulator showing the cable.  
> It looks like replacing the regulator will be a bear! Tell me I'm wrong - 
> please.  But I don't think I am.
> 
> Next, I put 12V to the +/- posts and got zilch from the motor.  Now it looks 
> like I will need to replace the regulator.Fortunately the weather is 
> going to be warm for the next few days.
> 
> Thanks guys - I appreciate all the help -  BTW i I can send the photos if 
> anyone is interested??
> 
> LarryT
> 
> 91 300D


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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window


They definitely swap side to side and _not _front to rear.

I swapped the 2 rear switches and the LR works on both sides and the RR 
does not work on either side,  I took photos of the regulator showing 
the cable.  It looks like replacing the regulator will be a bear! Tell 
me I'm wrong - please.  But I don't think I am.


Next, I put 12V to the +/- posts and got zilch from the motor.  Now it 
looks like I will need to replace the regulator.Fortunately the 
weather is going to be warm for the next few days.


Thanks guys - I appreciate all the help -  BTW i I can send the photos 
if anyone is interested??


LarryT

91 300D


On 02/21/2017 4:28 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote:

I don't remember for sure if they swap front to back or side to side, I
think front to back, but they can be swapped around to trouble-shoot.

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 4:25 PM, OK Don via Mercedes 
wrote:


What Max said. IIRC, the if the console switch is bad, the door switch will
not work. The left and right console switches are interchangeable (as are
the door switches) - just swap them and see if that fixes the issue.

On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 2:51 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


When I suspected a bad switch in The White Whale (124.193 aka 300TD) I
simply moved switches around and verified the issue, rolled the window up
and left the working switch in the spot that I needed it most until I had
time to visit the knackers and harvest a replacement.

-
Max
Charleston SC






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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

Thanks.  If I took notes anywhere near as good as you, I'd have 
remembered that for sure  I useta be able to remember all this 
stuff.  To much garbage in during the most recent 2 decades.



Jim Cathey via Mercedes 
February 21, 2017 at 10:11 PM
The front/back switches are in series. If _either_ switch is bad, the
window won't work in both directions. Swap to test, disassemble to clean,
etc.

-- Jim
_


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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

2017-02-21 Thread Jim Cathey via Mercedes

Every time I've had a window that would only go one way, noise in only one
direction, it has been a dirty switch problem.

-- Jim
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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

2017-02-21 Thread Jim Cathey via Mercedes

The front/back switches are in series.  If _either_ switch is bad, the
window won't work in both directions.  Swap to test, disassemble to clean,
etc.

-- Jim
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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

Hey Larry - sorry to hear about your discomfort.  Did the surgery improve
anything at all or make things worse?

On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 6:37 PM, Larry Turner via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I think each switch is unique to that position.  I bought what was
> supposed to be a drivers window switch but the pins were not correct so I
> got one from the dealer/  .  Ah, Don told me the fronts will not
> interchange with the rears so I know what I will do - swap console switches
> side to side - to see if the window will lift. (Like you said) ;-)
>
> I took the door panel off a little while ago and found the cable to be
> intact and tight.  So it's not the cable ;-^  unless I'm wrong of course.
>
> So I'm off to the garage now.   BTW, my legs and foot are screwed up
> (NEVER, NEVER, have ortho surgery unless it is absolutely the ONLY way to
> fix things - which in my case it was and my bones are screwed up) so I
> limit my stair climbing to an absolute minimum.  (That explains why I
> haven't been more explanatory concerning your suggestions.)
>
> Then I'll switch the switches.
>
> Thanks Gang,
>
> LarryT
>
> __
>
>
>
> On 02/21/2017 3:42 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote:
>
>> Larry,
>>
>> I'm a frugal guy, in your shoes I'd start with the console switch (swap
>> switches around to see if the problem follows the switch).  If the switch
>> swapping doesn't resolve the problem, then you'll need to remove the door
>> panel / liner and see what's going on.  On my '95 sedan, both rear windows
>> failed with broken sliders about a month apart, and in both cases I just
>> replaced the broken slider.  If I can replace parts and not the entire
>> assembly, that is what I like to do.
>>
>> You will need to remove the regulator assembly from the door to repair the
>> slider, if that is the course of action you decide on.
>>
>> I only posted that eBay link for the picture, no idea if the actual
>> regulator is a quality part or cheap junk.  LOTS of cheap junk out there,
>> caveat emptor.
>>
>> -
>> Max
>> Charleston SC
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 12:55 PM, Larry Turner via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>
>> Max, what do youy think about the regulator?  Would you replace the whole
>>> thing or parts?  Also, if I only hear a soft bump when trying to lower
>>> the
>>> glass (and nothing when trying to raise the glass), does that indicate a
>>> regulator or the slider or cable?
>>>
>>> BTW, if I failed to mention it, the glass is in the full down position.
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

I think each switch is unique to that position.  I bought what was 
supposed to be a drivers window switch but the pins were not correct so 
I got one from the dealer/  .  Ah, Don told me the fronts will not 
interchange with the rears so I know what I will do - swap console 
switches side to side - to see if the window will lift. (Like you said) ;-)


I took the door panel off a little while ago and found the cable to be 
intact and tight.  So it's not the cable ;-^  unless I'm wrong of course.


So I'm off to the garage now.   BTW, my legs and foot are screwed up 
(NEVER, NEVER, have ortho surgery unless it is absolutely the ONLY way 
to fix things - which in my case it was and my bones are screwed up) so 
I limit my stair climbing to an absolute minimum.  (That explains why I 
haven't been more explanatory concerning your suggestions.)


Then I'll switch the switches.

Thanks Gang,

LarryT

__



On 02/21/2017 3:42 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote:

Larry,

I'm a frugal guy, in your shoes I'd start with the console switch (swap
switches around to see if the problem follows the switch).  If the switch
swapping doesn't resolve the problem, then you'll need to remove the door
panel / liner and see what's going on.  On my '95 sedan, both rear windows
failed with broken sliders about a month apart, and in both cases I just
replaced the broken slider.  If I can replace parts and not the entire
assembly, that is what I like to do.

You will need to remove the regulator assembly from the door to repair the
slider, if that is the course of action you decide on.

I only posted that eBay link for the picture, no idea if the actual
regulator is a quality part or cheap junk.  LOTS of cheap junk out there,
caveat emptor.

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 12:55 PM, Larry Turner via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


Max, what do youy think about the regulator?  Would you replace the whole
thing or parts?  Also, if I only hear a soft bump when trying to lower the
glass (and nothing when trying to raise the glass), does that indicate a
regulator or the slider or cable?

BTW, if I failed to mention it, the glass is in the full down position.




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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

2017-02-21 Thread Peter Frederick via Mercedes

Try removing the switch and applying battery voltage to the wires directly.  A 
bad switch can keep either from working.

You may have to tap on the motor, too.

A broken wire in the door is also a possibility, in which case voltage to the 
plug at the switch in the door will work -- I have one window in the TE that 
did this, pulled the console switch because Mom kept putting it down and 
letting it rain into the car.

Peter
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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

2017-02-21 Thread OK Don via Mercedes

What Max said. IIRC, the if the console switch is bad, the door switch will
not work. The left and right console switches are interchangeable (as are
the door switches) - just swap them and see if that fixes the issue.

On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 2:51 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> When I suspected a bad switch in The White Whale (124.193 aka 300TD) I
> simply moved switches around and verified the issue, rolled the window up
> and left the working switch in the spot that I needed it most until I had
> time to visit the knackers and harvest a replacement.
>
> -
> Max
> Charleston SC
>

-- 
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

Master switch has the lockout button, so they may not swap in/out.  If the
PW switches are the same as a 123 I can send/lend him one of my spares.

On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 4:28 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I don't remember for sure if they swap front to back or side to side, I
> think front to back, but they can be swapped around to trouble-shoot.
>
> -
> Max
> Charleston SC
>
> On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 4:25 PM, OK Don via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> wrote:
>
> > What Max said. IIRC, the if the console switch is bad, the door switch
> will
> > not work. The left and right console switches are interchangeable (as are
> > the door switches) - just swap them and see if that fixes the issue.
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 2:51 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > > When I suspected a bad switch in The White Whale (124.193 aka 300TD) I
> > > simply moved switches around and verified the issue, rolled the window
> up
> > > and left the working switch in the spot that I needed it most until I
> had
> > > time to visit the knackers and harvest a replacement.
> > >
> > > -
> > > Max
> > > Charleston SC
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

I don't remember for sure if they swap front to back or side to side, I
think front to back, but they can be swapped around to trouble-shoot.

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 4:25 PM, OK Don via Mercedes 
wrote:

> What Max said. IIRC, the if the console switch is bad, the door switch will
> not work. The left and right console switches are interchangeable (as are
> the door switches) - just swap them and see if that fixes the issue.
>
> On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 2:51 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > When I suspected a bad switch in The White Whale (124.193 aka 300TD) I
> > simply moved switches around and verified the issue, rolled the window up
> > and left the working switch in the spot that I needed it most until I had
> > time to visit the knackers and harvest a replacement.
> >
> > -
> > Max
> > Charleston SC
> >
>
>
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

As I think about it, either the switch is bad or the motor has died.  If 
the motor was working I'd hear it turning as I push the buttons.  As it 
is I hear complete silence except for a small bump as I push the switch 
in the down direction.


I'll get a better look at it shortly, probably in a hour or so

LarryT


On 02/21/2017 9:14 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:
If you can hear the motor going up and down, then the plastic slider 
is off or the cable mechanism is toast.  I've had both happen. 
Car-part.com if you need the mechanism.


On 124, the door liner has to be pushed up.  Rather than the button 
things as 123 and earlier doors, the 124 has a bunch of prastic hooks 
that break off easily, or come unglued form the cardboard if you are 
lucky.  The door pull has 2 very big prastic hooks.


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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window


Yeah, that's the plan as soon as it gets home.

BTW, Andrew's comment about photos is a good idea - might help others 
better visualize how the window lift operates.


I'll wait to order parts -

LarryT


On 02/21/2017 1:59 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

On the ones with cable the nylon pulley can break,Yeah, that's the plan - as 
soon as it gets home rendering it useless,, or the cable can come of the nylon 
pulley.

You really have to get into the door to see what’s going on.  You’re going to 
have to open it up anyway.

-D


On Feb 21, 2017, at 1:45 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
 wrote:

My experience with bad regulators is that they go bump bump when one or
more teeth have broken off.  Utter silence sounds like a different
problem.  Have you taken off the door panel - seen anything suspicious?
Swapped out the master switch?



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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

When I suspected a bad switch in The White Whale (124.193 aka 300TD) I
simply moved switches around and verified the issue, rolled the window up
and left the working switch in the spot that I needed it most until I had
time to visit the knackers and harvest a replacement.

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 3:44 PM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Yeah, if I guess correctly they are pretty much the same as the 123/126
> switches -- pop them out of the console, take off the connectors, put the
> switch in a baggie and pop them apart (there are some snap kind of tabs
> holding them together).  There are 4 bits if I recall -- the rocker, a
> little spring that goes between the rocker and a ball bearing, and a little
> copper rocker that makes contact with the conductors.  Clean everything
> with alcohol and q-tips etc., reassemble ( a bit fiddly but not hard, do it
> in the baggie too) and reinstall.
>
> --FT
>
>
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

2017-02-21 Thread Floyd Thursby via Mercedes

Yeah, if I guess correctly they are pretty much the same as the 123/126 
switches -- pop them out of the console, take off the connectors, put 
the switch in a baggie and pop them apart (there are some snap kind of 
tabs holding them together).  There are 4 bits if I recall -- the 
rocker, a little spring that goes between the rocker and a ball bearing, 
and a little copper rocker that makes contact with the conductors.  
Clean everything with alcohol and q-tips etc., reassemble ( a bit fiddly 
but not hard, do it in the baggie too) and reinstall.


--FT


On 2/21/17 3:36 PM, Larry Turner via Mercedes wrote:

Hey Floyd,

Just to be clear, you're talking about the switches and not the 
regulators, right?


Thanks,

LarryT

91 300D


On 02/21/2017 3:29 PM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes wrote:
Just take them apart (in a plastic baggie to contain the flying 
sprHeyings) and clean them, takes but a few minutes and you will be 
amazed at the schmutz in them. Little grease and yer good ta go.


--FT


On 2/21/17 3:24 PM, Larry Turner via Mercedes wrote:
That's what I initially thought. But I get the same thing from both 
switches.  If the console switch is dirty, will that cause the door 
switch to fail to operate also?


Replacing a switch is obviously a lot easier to replace than 
anything else. ;-)


Thanks

Larry




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--
--FT
Winston Churchill:
“Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or 
petty,
never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense.
Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the 
enemy.”


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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

Larry,

I'm a frugal guy, in your shoes I'd start with the console switch (swap
switches around to see if the problem follows the switch).  If the switch
swapping doesn't resolve the problem, then you'll need to remove the door
panel / liner and see what's going on.  On my '95 sedan, both rear windows
failed with broken sliders about a month apart, and in both cases I just
replaced the broken slider.  If I can replace parts and not the entire
assembly, that is what I like to do.

You will need to remove the regulator assembly from the door to repair the
slider, if that is the course of action you decide on.

I only posted that eBay link for the picture, no idea if the actual
regulator is a quality part or cheap junk.  LOTS of cheap junk out there,
caveat emptor.

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 12:55 PM, Larry Turner via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Max, what do youy think about the regulator?  Would you replace the whole
> thing or parts?  Also, if I only hear a soft bump when trying to lower the
> glass (and nothing when trying to raise the glass), does that indicate a
> regulator or the slider or cable?
>
> BTW, if I failed to mention it, the glass is in the full down position.
>
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

I think so.  On 124 by far most of the problems were the switch.  I know 
I had to change one rear regulator. 123 1nd 125, I have changed 
regulators, motors and switches, and one slide.  I think I changed 
another slide many years ago.  For the 110, I know I changed a lot of 
slides and at least one regulator.



Larry Turner via Mercedes 
February 21, 2017 at 2:24 PM
That's what I initially thought. But I get the same thing from both 
switches.  If the console switch is dirty, will that cause the door 
switch to fail to operate also?


Replacing a switch is obviously a lot easier to replace than anything 
else.  ;-)


Thanks

Larry



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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window


Hey Floyd,

Just to be clear, you're talking about the switches and not the 
regulators, right?


Thanks,

LarryT

91 300D


On 02/21/2017 3:29 PM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes wrote:
Just take them apart (in a plastic baggie to contain the flying 
sprHeyings) and clean them, takes but a few minutes and you will be 
amazed at the schmutz in them.  Little grease and yer good ta go.


--FT


On 2/21/17 3:24 PM, Larry Turner via Mercedes wrote:
That's what I initially thought. But I get the same thing from both 
switches.  If the console switch is dirty, will that cause the door 
switch to fail to operate also?


Replacing a switch is obviously a lot easier to replace than anything 
else. ;-)


Thanks

Larry




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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

2017-02-21 Thread Floyd Thursby via Mercedes

Just take them apart (in a plastic baggie to contain the flying springs) 
and clean them, takes but a few minutes and you will be amazed at the 
schmutz in them.  Little grease and yer good ta go.


--FT


On 2/21/17 3:24 PM, Larry Turner via Mercedes wrote:
That's what I initially thought. But I get the same thing from both 
switches.  If the console switch is dirty, will that cause the door 
switch to fail to operate also?


Replacing a switch is obviously a lot easier to replace than anything 
else. ;-)


Thanks

Larry


--
--FT
Winston Churchill:
“Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or 
petty,
never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense.
Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the 
enemy.”


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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window


Thanks Kaleb!  BTW, did you see my question about the interior parts?


On 02/21/2017 2:02 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes wrote:

The rears on the 124 are cable. If the window no longer goes up or down you 
replace the regulator. I think the fronts are cable too, pretty sure they are. 
The last car with real regulators was the 126.

Sent from my iPhone


On Feb 21, 2017, at 12:59 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
wrote:

On the ones with cable the nylon pulley can break, rendering  it useless,, or 
the cable can come of the nylon pulley.

You really have to get into the door to see what’s going on.  You’re going to 
have to open it up anyway.

-D


On Feb 21, 2017, at 1:45 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
 wrote:

My experience with bad regulators is that they go bump bump when one or
more teeth have broken off.  Utter silence sounds like a different
problem.  Have you taken off the door panel - seen anything suspicious?
Swapped out the master switch?



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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

That's what I initially thought. But I get the same thing from both 
switches.  If the console switch is dirty, will that cause the door 
switch to fail to operate also?


Replacing a switch is obviously a lot easier to replace than anything 
else.  ;-)


Thanks

Larry


On 02/21/2017 3:16 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:

That sounds more like the switch is bad.


Larry Turner via Mercedes 
February 21, 2017 at 11:50 AM
I don't hear anything when I push either button.  Let me explain that 
better - when I push the button to raise the glass I hear nothing.  
When I push either button to lower the glass I can her a soft bump.


What does that tell us?

LarryT



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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window


That sounds more like the switch is bad.


Larry Turner via Mercedes 
February 21, 2017 at 11:50 AM
I don't hear anything when I push either button.  Let me explain that 
better - when I push the button to raise the glass I hear nothing.  
When I push either button to lower the glass I can her a soft bump.


What does that tell us?

LarryT



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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

2017-02-21 Thread Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes

The rears on the 124 are cable. If the window no longer goes up or down you 
replace the regulator. I think the fronts are cable too, pretty sure they are. 
The last car with real regulators was the 126.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 21, 2017, at 12:59 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> On the ones with cable the nylon pulley can break, rendering  it useless,, or 
> the cable can come of the nylon pulley.
> 
> You really have to get into the door to see what’s going on.  You’re going to 
> have to open it up anyway.
> 
> -D
> 
>> On Feb 21, 2017, at 1:45 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> My experience with bad regulators is that they go bump bump when one or
>> more teeth have broken off.  Utter silence sounds like a different
>> problem.  Have you taken off the door panel - seen anything suspicious?
>> Swapped out the master switch?
>> 
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

Yeah, and post the pictures.

On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 1:59 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> On the ones with cable the nylon pulley can break, rendering it useless,,
> or the cable can come of the nylon pulley.
>
> You really have to get into the door to see what’s going on.  You’re going
> to have to open it up anyway.
>
> -D
>
> > On Feb 21, 2017, at 1:45 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > My experience with bad regulators is that they go bump bump when one or
> > more teeth have broken off.  Utter silence sounds like a different
> > problem.  Have you taken off the door panel - seen anything suspicious?
> > Swapped out the master switch?
> >
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

On the ones with cable the nylon pulley can break, rendering it useless,, or 
the cable can come of the nylon pulley.

You really have to get into the door to see what’s going on.  You’re going to 
have to open it up anyway.

-D

> On Feb 21, 2017, at 1:45 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> My experience with bad regulators is that they go bump bump when one or
> more teeth have broken off.  Utter silence sounds like a different
> problem.  Have you taken off the door panel - seen anything suspicious?
> Swapped out the master switch?
> 


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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

My experience with bad regulators is that they go bump bump when one or
more teeth have broken off.  Utter silence sounds like a different
problem.  Have you taken off the door panel - seen anything suspicious?
Swapped out the master switch?

On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 12:55 PM, Larry Turner via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Max, what do youy think about the regulator?  Would you replace the whole
> thing or parts?  Also, if I only hear a soft bump when trying to lower the
> glass (and nothing when trying to raise the glass), does that indicate a
> regulator or the slider or cable?
>
> BTW, if I failed to mention it, the glass is in the full down position.
>
>
>
> On 02/21/2017 9:08 AM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote:
>
>> Larry, that sounds like a regulator mechanical failure, which is probably
>> either the plastic slider or the cable.  I don't know what picture you're
>> looking at, here's an eBay listing with a nice picture:
>>
>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rear-Door-Power-Window-Regulator-w-M
>> otor-Driver-Side-Left-LH-for-Mercedes-W124-/370854517433
>>
>> The 124 rear window slider is NOT sold as a separate assembly, but I found
>> that the W210 front window slider assembly can be purchased separately,
>> and
>> then one can remove the rivet attaching the plastic part to the metal
>> part,
>> and attach the new plastic slider to the 124 metal part with a nut/bolt
>> with loctite, and then you don't need to purchase the entire regulator.
>>
>> Let me see if I kept a record of the W210 part number...
>>
>> -
>> Max
>> Charleston SC
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 8:17 AM, Larry Turner via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Max!  Would a dirty console switch prevent the door switch
>>> working?  BTW, I can hear the motor (?) bump quietly when I push the
>>> switches up/down - It is more easily heard when pushing in the down
>>> direction.
>>>
>>> I looked at replacement motors on BuyEuroparts.com and it doesn't look
>>> like a typical motor and gear assembly,   Unless it's just a photo from a
>>> odd angle.  It has what looks like a thin wire - is that the cable you
>>> are
>>> speaking of?  I'm used to seeing W123 motors which have a pie shaped gear
>>> section that engages a bar with a gear on it.  I thought this might have
>>> a
>>> similar system and it became jammed?  If it's a cable does it ecver jump
>>> off the pulley?  Or does it break before jumping?
>>>
>>> I'll understand it better when I pull the door card and lay eyes on the
>>> motor.
>>>
>>> I'll clean the console switches and see if that helps.You ever see
>>> recycled door window lift motors?  I know that's premature but I like to
>>> plan ahead.
>>>
>>> TIA.
>>>
>>> Larry
>>>
>>>
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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

Max, what do youy think about the regulator? Would you replace the
whole thing or parts? Also, if I only hear a soft bump when trying to
lower the glass (and nothing when trying to raise the glass), does that
indicate a regulator or the slider or cable?

BTW, if I failed to mention it, the glass is in the full down position.

On 02/21/2017 9:08 AM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote:

Larry, that sounds like a regulator mechanical failure, which is probably
either the plastic slider or the cable. I don't know what picture you're
looking at, here's an eBay listing with a nice picture:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rear-Door-Power-Window-Regulator-w-Motor-Driver-Side-Left-LH-for-Mercedes-W124-/370854517433

The 124 rear window slider is NOT sold as a separate assembly, but I found
that the W210 front window slider assembly can be purchased separately, and
then one can remove the rivet attaching the plastic part to the metal part,
and attach the new plastic slider to the 124 metal part with a nut/bolt
with loctite, and then you don't need to purchase the entire regulator.

Let me see if I kept a record of the W210 part number...

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 8:17 AM, Larry Turner via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

Thanks Max! Would a dirty console switch prevent the door switch
working? BTW, I can hear the motor (?) bump quietly when I push the
switches up/down - It is more easily heard when pushing in the down
direction.

I looked at replacement motors on BuyEuroparts.com and it doesn't look
like a typical motor and gear assembly, Unless it's just a photo from a
odd angle. It has what looks like a thin wire - is that the cable you are
speaking of? I'm used to seeing W123 motors which have a pie shaped gear
section that engages a bar with a gear on it. I thought this might have a
similar system and it became jammed? If it's a cable does it ecver jump
off the pulley? Or does it break before jumping?

I'll understand it better when I pull the door card and lay eyes on the
motor.

I'll clean the console switches and see if that helps.You ever see
recycled door window lift motors? I know that's premature but I like to
plan ahead.

TIA.

Larry

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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

Thanks Max, That's a very good price also. Now I need to decide if I
want to roll the dice and get a new one on the way. I considered the
possibility it may be jammed but this style doesn't lend itself to
jamming I wouldn't think.

I think the odds are pretty good that I need a new regulator. Don't you
think? I prefer to replace the unit rather than pieces. Seems every
time I replace a bushing, etc, it will work for a while before something
else on the assy breaks and I have to dis-assemble it again.. My wife
gets unhappy when the rear window is down. Especially in the middle of
winter..

BTW have you ever replaced a regulator? Is it a big job? It always
seems my hands are too large to fit between the sheet metal.

Now I need to decide if I am gonna roll the dice or wait until I can
pull the door card and put 12v on the motor.

Hmmm,.. Max, as always you have given me much to think about. ;-)

LarryT

91 300 D

On 02/21/2017 9:08 AM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rear-Door-Power-Window-Regulator-w-Motor-Driver-Side-Left-LH-for-Mercedes-W124-/370854517433

Let me see if I kept a record of the W210 part number...

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 8:17 AM, Larry Turner via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

I'll understand it better when I pull the door card and lay eyes on the
motor.

I'll clean the console switches and see if that helps.You ever see
recycled door window lift motors? I know that's premature but I like to
plan ahead.

TIA.

Larry

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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

I don't hear anything when I push either button.  Let me explain that 
better - when I push the button to raise the glass I hear nothing.  When 
I push either button to lower the glass I can her a soft bump.


What does that tell us?

LarryT



On 02/21/2017 9:14 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:
If you can hear the motor going up and down, then the plastic slider 
is off or the cable mechanism is toast.  I've had both happen. 
Car-part.com if you need the mechanism.


On 124, the door liner has to be pushed up.  Rather than the button 
things as 123 and earlier doors, the 124 has a bunch of prastic hooks 
that break off easily, or come unglued form the cardboard if you are 
lucky.  The door pull has 2 very big prastic hooks.


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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

Larry, that sounds like a regulator mechanical failure, which is probably
either the plastic slider or the cable.  I don't know what picture you're
looking at, here's an eBay listing with a nice picture:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rear-Door-Power-Window-Regulator-w-Motor-Driver-Side-Left-LH-for-Mercedes-W124-/370854517433

The 124 rear window slider is NOT sold as a separate assembly, but I found
that the W210 front window slider assembly can be purchased separately, and
then one can remove the rivet attaching the plastic part to the metal part,
and attach the new plastic slider to the 124 metal part with a nut/bolt
with loctite, and then you don't need to purchase the entire regulator.

Let me see if I kept a record of the W210 part number...

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 8:17 AM, Larry Turner via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Thanks Max!  Would a dirty console switch prevent the door switch
> working?  BTW, I can hear the motor (?) bump quietly when I push the
> switches up/down - It is more easily heard when pushing in the down
> direction.
>
> I looked at replacement motors on BuyEuroparts.com and it doesn't look
> like a typical motor and gear assembly,   Unless it's just a photo from a
> odd angle.  It has what looks like a thin wire - is that the cable you are
> speaking of?  I'm used to seeing W123 motors which have a pie shaped gear
> section that engages a bar with a gear on it.  I thought this might have a
> similar system and it became jammed?  If it's a cable does it ecver jump
> off the pulley?  Or does it break before jumping?
>
> I'll understand it better when I pull the door card and lay eyes on the
> motor.
>
> I'll clean the console switches and see if that helps.You ever see
> recycled door window lift motors?  I know that's premature but I like to
> plan ahead.
>
> TIA.
>
> Larry
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

If you can hear the motor going up and down, then the plastic slider is 
off or the cable mechanism is toast.  I've had both happen.  
Car-part.com if you need the mechanism.


On 124, the door liner has to be pushed up.  Rather than the button 
things as 123 and earlier doors, the 124 has a bunch of prastic hooks 
that break off easily, or come unglued form the cardboard if you are 
lucky.  The door pull has 2 very big prastic hooks.


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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

Here's the part number for the W210 plastic slider, that you can use to
repair your 124 slider:  2107200042

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 9:08 AM, Meade Dillon  wrote:

> Larry, that sounds like a regulator mechanical failure, which is probably
> either the plastic slider or the cable.  I don't know what picture you're
> looking at, here's an eBay listing with a nice picture:
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rear-Door-Power-Window-Regulator-w-
> Motor-Driver-Side-Left-LH-for-Mercedes-W124-/370854517433
>
> The 124 rear window slider is NOT sold as a separate assembly, but I found
> that the W210 front window slider assembly can be purchased separately, and
> then one can remove the rivet attaching the plastic part to the metal part,
> and attach the new plastic slider to the 124 metal part with a nut/bolt
> with loctite, and then you don't need to purchase the entire regulator.
>
> Let me see if I kept a record of the W210 part number...
>
>
> -
> Max
> Charleston SC
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

Yes, the 124 rear doors use cables, front doors use the scissors / gear /
sliding jaws.

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 6:34 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Max, does the W124 regulator use cables?  I know the W140 does, but I
> thought everything before that was just the “scissors” arrangement with the
> sliding jaws?
>
> It’s been a while since I’ve been in the door of a W124, if that’s what
> we’re talking about.
>
> Dan
>
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

Thanks Max!  Would a dirty console switch prevent the door switch 
working?  BTW, I can hear the motor (?) bump quietly when I push the 
switches up/down - It is more easily heard when pushing in the down 
direction.


I looked at replacement motors on BuyEuroparts.com and it doesn't look 
like a typical motor and gear assembly,   Unless it's just a photo from 
a odd angle.  It has what looks like a thin wire - is that the cable you 
are speaking of?  I'm used to seeing W123 motors which have a pie shaped 
gear section that engages a bar with a gear on it.  I thought this might 
have a similar system and it became jammed?  If it's a cable does it 
ecver jump off the pulley?  Or does it break before jumping?


I'll understand it better when I pull the door card and lay eyes on the 
motor.


I'll clean the console switches and see if that helps.You ever see 
recycled door window lift motors?  I know that's premature but I like to 
plan ahead.


TIA.

Larry

n 02/21/2017 6:29 AM, Max Dillon via Mercedes wrote:


Larry, no ground in the door, just two wires.  Try applying power both ways.

There are mechanical reasons this could happen.  Commonly a plastic slider 
fails.  A cable and pulleys are also involved, cable could part.

Make sure you don't have a dirty switch in the center console!


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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window


Dan,

Same time for me.  After 45+ years of getting up at 5 I doubt I could 
sleep later if I wanted !


Yep, it's a 91 300D  2.5T W124 - WDB.EB28D1MB.36XXX

Eng is a 602-962

I'd appreciate the pointers.  I removed the door cards on my W123 many 
times but this looks different.  I removed the Lock Button and the 
Window Lift Button along with the bolts under the door lift panel.  I 
assume it has the plastic Pop rivits that go into the door frame 
periphery?Couldn't find any bolts in the arm rest as  is typical.   
This door panel may need to be lifted upward I suspect?  After the 
plastic pins are loosened?


No PDF?

Thanks as always -

Larry


-On 02/21/2017 6:22 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

Meh.  I’ve been up since 5:00, my normal wake up time.

This is on a W124?  Let me know and I can give you some pointers about removing 
the door panel - it’s not difficult.

Dan



On Feb 21, 2017, at 6:13 AM, Larry Turner via Mercedes  
wrote:

Hit send before I wanted - Thanks Dan -

I will pull the door panel as you suggest.  I have never had the rear door 
panels off - I have no idea what it looks like under them - so I assume there 
will be a bolt with the ground wire and a connection where the power is 
connected?

Thanks again -

Larryt

BTW, it's good to see others get up early ;-)


On 02/21/2017 6:06 AM, Larry Turner via Mercedes wrote:

Yep, the fuse for the rear windows is in the H position and I rolled it and 
looked for any damage to the fuse.


On 02/21/2017 5:49 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

I assume you checked the fuses, of course?

Since it went down under power I would question your diagnosis. First thing I 
would do after verifying fuses are good would be to pull the door panel and put 
B+ directly to the motor to see if it’s OK.

That will also give you access to the regulator so you can get the window moved 
back to the full upright and locked position for flight.

Dan




On Feb 21, 2017, at 5:47 AM, Larry Turner via Mercedes  
wrote:

Hi Gang,

I rolled the Left Rear Window down and now it won't go back up.   The door 
switch will not move it and the console switch also fails to move it.

 I cannot get the motor to move the window Up as it's in the full down 
position.

I am thinking either the motor is bad or the gears are locked, Does that 
about cover it?

Thanks ya'll,

LarryT

91 300D

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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

Max, does the W124 regulator use cables?  I know the W140 does, but I thought 
everything before that was just the “scissors” arrangement with the sliding 
jaws?

It’s been a while since I’ve been in the door of a W124, if that’s what we’re 
talking about.

Dan


> On Feb 21, 2017, at 6:29 AM, Max Dillon via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Larry, no ground in the door, just two wires.  Try applying power both ways.
> 
> There are mechanical reasons this could happen.  Commonly a plastic slider 
> fails.  A cable and pulleys are also involved, cable could part.
> 
> Make sure you don't have a dirty switch in the center console!
> -- 
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
> '87 300TD
> '95 E300
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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

2017-02-21 Thread Max Dillon via Mercedes

Larry, no ground in the door, just two wires.  Try applying power both ways.

There are mechanical reasons this could happen.  Commonly a plastic slider 
fails.  A cable and pulleys are also involved, cable could part.

Make sure you don't have a dirty switch in the center console!
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300
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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

Meh.  I’ve been up since 5:00, my normal wake up time.

This is on a W124?  Let me know and I can give you some pointers about removing 
the door panel - it’s not difficult.

Dan


> On Feb 21, 2017, at 6:13 AM, Larry Turner via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hit send before I wanted - Thanks Dan -
> 
> I will pull the door panel as you suggest.  I have never had the rear door 
> panels off - I have no idea what it looks like under them - so I assume there 
> will be a bolt with the ground wire and a connection where the power is 
> connected?
> 
> Thanks again -
> 
> Larryt
> 
> BTW, it's good to see others get up early ;-)
> 
> 
> On 02/21/2017 6:06 AM, Larry Turner via Mercedes wrote:
>> Yep, the fuse for the rear windows is in the H position and I rolled it and 
>> looked for any damage to the fuse.
>> 
>> 
>> On 02/21/2017 5:49 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
>>> I assume you checked the fuses, of course?
>>> 
>>> Since it went down under power I would question your diagnosis. First thing 
>>> I would do after verifying fuses are good would be to pull the door panel 
>>> and put B+ directly to the motor to see if it’s OK.
>>> 
>>> That will also give you access to the regulator so you can get the window 
>>> moved back to the full upright and locked position for flight.
>>> 
>>> Dan
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Feb 21, 2017, at 5:47 AM, Larry Turner via Mercedes 
  wrote:
 
 Hi Gang,
 
I rolled the Left Rear Window down and now it won't go back up.   The 
 door switch will not move it and the console switch also fails to move it.
 
 I cannot get the motor to move the window Up as it's in the full down 
 position.
 
I am thinking either the motor is bad or the gears are locked, Does 
 that about cover it?
 
Thanks ya'll,
 
 LarryT
 
 91 300D
 
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 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>>> 
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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window


Hit send before I wanted - Thanks Dan -

I will pull the door panel as you suggest.  I have never had the rear 
door panels off - I have no idea what it looks like under them - so I 
assume there will be a bolt with the ground wire and a connection where 
the power is connected?


Thanks again -

Larryt

BTW, it's good to see others get up early ;-)


On 02/21/2017 6:06 AM, Larry Turner via Mercedes wrote:
Yep, the fuse for the rear windows is in the H position and I rolled 
it and looked for any damage to the fuse.



On 02/21/2017 5:49 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

I assume you checked the fuses, of course?

Since it went down under power I would question your diagnosis. First 
thing I would do after verifying fuses are good would be to pull the 
door panel and put B+ directly to the motor to see if it’s OK.


That will also give you access to the regulator so you can get the 
window moved back to the full upright and locked position for flight.


Dan



On Feb 21, 2017, at 5:47 AM, Larry Turner via Mercedes 
 wrote:


Hi Gang,

I rolled the Left Rear Window down and now it won't go back 
up.   The door switch will not move it and the console switch also 
fails to move it.


 I cannot get the motor to move the window Up as it's in the 
full down position.


I am thinking either the motor is bad or the gears are locked, 
Does that about cover it?


Thanks ya'll,

LarryT

91 300D

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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window

Yep, the fuse for the rear windows is in the H position and I rolled it 
and looked for any damage to the fuse.



On 02/21/2017 5:49 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

I assume you checked the fuses, of course?

Since it went down under power I would question your diagnosis.  First thing I 
would do after verifying fuses are good would be to pull the door panel and put 
B+ directly to the motor to see if it’s OK.

That will also give you access to the regulator so you can get the window moved 
back to the full upright and locked position for flight.

Dan




On Feb 21, 2017, at 5:47 AM, Larry Turner via Mercedes  
wrote:

Hi Gang,

I rolled the Left Rear Window down and now it won't go back up.   The door 
switch will not move it and the console switch also fails to move it.

 I cannot get the motor to move the window Up as it's in the full down 
position.

I am thinking either the motor is bad or the gears are locked, Does that 
about cover it?

Thanks ya'll,

LarryT

91 300D

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Re: [MBZ] Rear Window