Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve
Therein lies the problem for lawyers. It is difficult to show the client what is done. If things go smoothly, the client thinks the lawyer did not do anything. The client has in most cases already dealt with the realtor and the banker before getting to the lawyer and does not understand why he has to do it again with the lawyer. However, here at least, it is the lawyer who is essentially guaranteeing that you get what you bought and guaranteeing to the lender that their security is good. Randy On 12/11/2012 4:57 PM, Allan Streib wrote: Real-estate transactions seem to be completely standardized at least if there is a conforming mortgage loan. The one time I had a lawyer involved when we bought a house he didn't really seem to do anything but collect a fee. He reviewed the boilerplate documents, changed nothing, and was a warm body in the room at the closing. Allan Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com writes: Whenever we have bought or sold property we have a lawyer, basically to check the paperwork and to make sure all is being done as it should be. Also, the presence of a lawyer in a real estate transaction seems, at least from our experience, to make what would otherwise be big issues little ones. When the seller, realtor or bank starts creating trouble, a quick bring them back to center call from the lawyer has always gotten things back on track. For the life of me, I can't understand why someone would engage in the most expensive financial transaction they would probably ever be involved in without retaining counsel... Dan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve
OK Don wrote: Didn't Shakespeare write The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.? - Yes, *Henry The Sixth, Part 2 Act 4, scene 2, 71–78*http://www.enotes.com/henryvi-ii-text/act-iv-scene-2#killlawyers. Where are the English majors when we need them? Yep, when plotting tyranny, Shakespeare though it should be done after the barristers were gone. Now we feel like the lawyers are the cause of oppressive laws. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve
Yes, we all think that.until the time comes when you REALLY need a lawyer. On Nov 12, 2012, at 12:30 AM, OK Don wrote: If the present Congress errs in too much talking, how can it be otherwise in a body to which the people send one hundred and fifty lawyers, whose trade it is to question everything, yield nothing, and talk by the hour? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve
Yes, MY lawyer is good, YOUR lawyer is the root of all evil. On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 5:58 AM, Jon Agne jonag...@gwi.net wrote: Yes, we all think that.until the time comes when you REALLY need a lawyer. On Nov 12, 2012, at 12:30 AM, OK Don wrote: If the present Congress errs in too much talking, how can it be otherwise in a body to which the people send one hundred and fifty lawyers, whose trade it is to question everything, yield nothing, and talk by the hour? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- OK Don 2001 ML320 2012 Passat TDI DSG 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager 1957 C182A ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve
- Original Message - From: Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 6:57 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve OK Don wrote: Didn't Shakespeare write The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.? - Yes, *Henry The Sixth, Part 2 Act 4, scene 2, 71–78*http://www.enotes.com/henryvi-ii-text/act-iv-scene-2#killlawyers. Where are the English majors when we need them? Yep, when plotting tyranny, Shakespeare though it should be done after the barristers were gone. Now we feel like the lawyers are the cause of oppressive laws. Mitch The main problem, according to some scholars, is that new laws are constantly written, but old laws are seldom reviewed and ineffective or no longer necessary ones eliminated. Gerry ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2441/5390 - Release Date: 11/12/12 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve
Gerry Archer wrote: The main problem, according to some scholars, is that new laws are constantly written, but old laws are seldom reviewed and ineffective or no longer necessary ones eliminated. Gerry You touch upon one of my favorite issues. I wouldn't mind seeing a Constitutional Amendment to require them to get rid of two laws for every new one they enact. (of course, eventually they'd run out of laws, but we've already got millions of federal laws so it would take centuries) Mitch ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve
Right on!!! I've only had to hire a lawyer 3 times, and each time, they have been worth every penny. On Nov 12, 2012, at 9:26 AM, OK Don wrote: Yes, MY lawyer is good, YOUR lawyer is the root of all evil. On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 5:58 AM, Jon Agne jonag...@gwi.net wrote: Yes, we all think that.until the time comes when you REALLY need a lawyer. On Nov 12, 2012, at 12:30 AM, OK Don wrote: If the present Congress errs in too much talking, how can it be otherwise in a body to which the people send one hundred and fifty lawyers, whose trade it is to question everything, yield nothing, and talk by the hour? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- OK Don 2001 ML320 2012 Passat TDI DSG 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager 1957 C182A ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve
But why do you REALLY need a lawyer? Because the other guy got one... Most of the time things would be better solved if we didn't have the ability to sue each other. -Curt Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 06:58:22 -0500 From: Jon Agne jonag...@gwi.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve Message-ID: 6f61cddf-dcee-4d43-b1f0-17da9a356...@gwi.net Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii Yes, we all think that.until the time comes when you REALLY need a lawyer. On Nov 12, 2012, at 12:30 AM, OK Don wrote: If the present Congress errs in too much talking, how can it be otherwise in a body to which the people send one hundred and fifty lawyers, whose trade it is to question everything, yield nothing, and talk by the hour? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve
A successful private lawyer/friend once told me that if a lawyer can't make a living in private practice he becomes a judge, and if he can't make it as a judge he goes into politics. He was being facetious, of course, but there may be some truth in it. Gerrywho studiously avoids the necessity of hiring lawyers except for wills and real estate. From: Jon Agne jonag...@gwi.net Right on!!! I've only had to hire a lawyer 3 times, and each time, they have been worth every penny. On Nov 12, 2012, at 9:26 AM, OK Don wrote: Yes, MY lawyer is good, YOUR lawyer is the root of all evil. On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 5:58 AM, Jon Agne jonag...@gwi.net wrote: Yes, we all think that.until the time comes when you REALLY need a lawyer. On Nov 12, 2012, at 12:30 AM, OK Don wrote: If the present Congress errs in too much talking, how can it be otherwise in a body to which the people send one hundred and fifty lawyers, whose trade it is to question everything, yield nothing, and talk by the hour? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- OK Don 2001 ML320 2012 Passat TDI DSG 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager 1957 C182A ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2441/5390 - Release Date: 11/12/12 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve
Whenever we have bought or sold property we have a lawyer, basically to check the paperwork and to make sure all is being done as it should be. Also, the presence of a lawyer in a real estate transaction seems, at least from our experience, to make what would otherwise be big issues little ones. When the seller, realtor or bank starts creating trouble, a quick bring them back to center call from the lawyer has always gotten things back on track. For the life of me, I can't understand why someone would engage in the most expensive financial transaction they would probably ever be involved in without retaining counsel... Dan On Nov 12, 2012, at 1:12 PM, Curt Raymond wrote: But why do you REALLY need a lawyer? Because the other guy got one... Most of the time things would be better solved if we didn't have the ability to sue each other. -Curt Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 06:58:22 -0500 From: Jon Agne jonag...@gwi.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve Message-ID: 6f61cddf-dcee-4d43-b1f0-17da9a356...@gwi.net Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii Yes, we all think that.until the time comes when you REALLY need a lawyer. On Nov 12, 2012, at 12:30 AM, OK Don wrote: If the present Congress errs in too much talking, how can it be otherwise in a body to which the people send one hundred and fifty lawyers, whose trade it is to question everything, yield nothing, and talk by the hour? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve
On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 2:08 PM, Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com wrote: Whenever we have bought or sold property we have a lawyer, basically to check the paperwork and to make sure all is being done as it should be. Also, the presence of a lawyer in a real estate transaction seems, at least from our experience, to make what would otherwise be big issues little ones. When the seller, realtor or bank starts creating trouble, a quick bring them back to center call from the lawyer has always gotten things back on track. Well, the two times I've purchased a house I've had a lawyer do the paperwork, and both times the paperwork or research was incorrect in a major way. Of course they never figure this out until it's time to sell, I guess if I was flipping property it would be no big deal but getting them to fix things from 5-7 years ago is a headache. For the life of me, I can't understand why someone would engage in the most expensive financial transaction they would probably ever be involved in without retaining counsel... Agreed (in spite of my experience above). It is very handy to hire a field expert - not necessarily for litigation purposes, but because they know what the pitfalls are and hopefully can avoid them. Same reason I hired a mechanic to do my brakes last time. Best, Tim who Saturday, replaced the driver's front bearing because the mechanic overtightened it ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve
Our real estate lawyer has either been a family lawyer already known to us, or a trusted friend who is a dedicated real estate attorney with whom I swap IT support for legal work. Last time I did pay him on a home sale that was especially tortuous I gave him $500, which I thought was a good deal considering it was cash and he probably had maybe 5-6 hours in the whole deal. For the most part real estate is boilerplate stuff and he acts as our mouthpiece, meaning we don't speak to the other party, their real-estate agent or lender. With the advent of email I can get an email from him and have a response in a matter of minutes for him, so his time involved is pretty minimal. Add to this that he is a good friend and we know he has our best interests in mind, too. Dan On Nov 12, 2012, at 3:53 PM, Tim C wrote: On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 2:08 PM, Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com wrote: Whenever we have bought or sold property we have a lawyer, basically to check the paperwork and to make sure all is being done as it should be. Also, the presence of a lawyer in a real estate transaction seems, at least from our experience, to make what would otherwise be big issues little ones. When the seller, realtor or bank starts creating trouble, a quick bring them back to center call from the lawyer has always gotten things back on track. Well, the two times I've purchased a house I've had a lawyer do the paperwork, and both times the paperwork or research was incorrect in a major way. Of course they never figure this out until it's time to sell, I guess if I was flipping property it would be no big deal but getting them to fix things from 5-7 years ago is a headache. For the life of me, I can't understand why someone would engage in the most expensive financial transaction they would probably ever be involved in without retaining counsel... Agreed (in spite of my experience above). It is very handy to hire a field expert - not necessarily for litigation purposes, but because they know what the pitfalls are and hopefully can avoid them. Same reason I hired a mechanic to do my brakes last time. Best, Tim who Saturday, replaced the driver's front bearing because the mechanic overtightened it ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve
Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com writes: Most of the time things would be better solved if we didn't have the ability to sue each other. And how would things get solved then? -- Allan Streib ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve
Real-estate transactions seem to be completely standardized at least if there is a conforming mortgage loan. The one time I had a lawyer involved when we bought a house he didn't really seem to do anything but collect a fee. He reviewed the boilerplate documents, changed nothing, and was a warm body in the room at the closing. Allan Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com writes: Whenever we have bought or sold property we have a lawyer, basically to check the paperwork and to make sure all is being done as it should be. Also, the presence of a lawyer in a real estate transaction seems, at least from our experience, to make what would otherwise be big issues little ones. When the seller, realtor or bank starts creating trouble, a quick bring them back to center call from the lawyer has always gotten things back on track. For the life of me, I can't understand why someone would engage in the most expensive financial transaction they would probably ever be involved in without retaining counsel... Dan -- Allan Streib ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve
Duels at dawn. 10 paces. How bad do you want to sue me? --R On 11/12/12 5:51 PM, Allan Streib wrote: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com writes: Most of the time things would be better solved if we didn't have the ability to sue each other. And how would things get solved then? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve
John Kasich deserves most of the credit for the surprise budget surplus under Clinton. -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Brian Toscano Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 2:11 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve I've seen similar charts for the U.S. for 1980-2004 - Republicans ramp up spending. Clinton actually balanced the budget with a bit higher taxes, but also enjoyed explosive growth in the stock market for much of his presidency. Then the dot.com bubble burst, GWB inherited that, dealt with 9/11, invaded Iraq, and cut our taxes, and sent us checks while the country was at war. Debt increased steadily with GWB, and then the world economy tanked towards the end of his presidency. Since GWB, government spending has been on the increase without higher taxes. Decades ago, when the country was at war, tax rates increased to the point where the highest bracket was paid by only one person - John D. Rockefeller. On Sun, Nov 11, 2012 at 8:45 AM, Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com wrote: Is it time for someone to mention Hitler? grin Dan On Nov 11, 2012, at 10:28 AM, Craig wrote: On Sun, 11 Nov 2012 10:21:14 -0500 Jon Agne jonag...@gwi.net wrote: I think it normally works this way: 1) The President proposes a budget, and 2) Congress passes the budget. It's supposed to be: 1) The House of Representatives develops and passes a budget bill, 2) The Senate also passes the bill, subject to negotiations with the House, and, 3) The President signs the bill and the U.S. has a budget. Note that recently no budget has been passed, only Continuing Resolutions, which continue the previous spending. Our duly elected representatives kicking the can down the road. If you look historically, almost all budgets were within 3% (plus or minus) of what each President has proposed. Probably to avoid the threat of a veto. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve
People might actually talk to each other occasionally, maybe solve problems like an adult. Part of the problem with suing is that idiots that have no idea what bringing a lawsuit is all about get talked into it by some ambulance chaser thats just looking to make a buck. In the end I think we might be better served if dueling was brought back into vogue. I'll refer you to James May's Man Lab season 1 episode 2 which is available on YouTube. --- On Mon, 11/12/12, Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu wrote: From: Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu Subject: Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com, Diesel List mercedes@okiebenz.com Date: Monday, November 12, 2012, 5:51 PM Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com writes: Most of the time things would be better solved if we didn't have the ability to sue each other. And how would things get solved then? -- Allan Streib ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve
Ah - but the threat of a suit or other legal action can sometimes be very helpful in getting the scoundrels to behave. Case in point - purchaser of Dad's office building decided to stop making payments for a couple of months, just as we were wrapping up probate. Kept saying the check's in the mail. A letter from our lawyer invoking the foreclosure clause in the contract brought a check right away. It did take a second letter form the lawyer to get the penalty payment (also in the contract) ti get the note re-instated by me. He hasn't missed a payment since. I'd rather have the money flowing into the estate than shoot the guy. On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 4:51 PM, Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu wrote: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com writes: Most of the time things would be better solved if we didn't have the ability to sue each other. And how would things get solved then? -- Allan Streib ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- OK Don 2001 ML320 2012 Passat TDI DSG 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager 1957 C182A ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve
OKIE DON SEZ: Yes, MY lawyer is good, YOUR lawyer is the root of all evil. You must have better shysters in Okieland than the rest of the country. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve
Nope - just happened to luck into one that seems good. On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 7:45 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: OKIE DON SEZ: Yes, MY lawyer is good, YOUR lawyer is the root of all evil. You must have better shysters in Okieland than the rest of the country. __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- OK Don 2001 ML320 2012 Passat TDI DSG 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager 1957 C182A ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve
One of my previous jobs was collections agent for a land survey company. Its amazing when you show up at somebodys door with a cop how quickly people decide its time to pay. The cop never said anything. I forget what we had to pay to have a cop escort me around but it was cheap cheap compared to a lawyer. He'd just stand out at the end of the driveway while I went up to the house and suggested the people might like to pay us. One time I went to a law office, we'd done a big site survey for a lawyer's house, big job like a 150 acre lot or something. Of course the guy is never home to play my game with so I decide to go to his office unannounced. I go right at lunch time and the cop stands in the reception area while I get ushered in and the lawyer starts counting out hundred dollar bills... There are plenty of ways to threaten people, the best ones involve no overt threat at all. -Curt From: OK Don okd...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve Message-ID: canzcij-om9x41ywzvchkqrauejph-pwzuoyb32m_3e4-c_v...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Ah - but the threat of a suit or other legal action can sometimes be very helpful in getting the scoundrels to behave. Case in point - purchaser of Dad's office building decided to stop making payments for a couple of months, just as we were wrapping up probate. Kept saying the check's in the mail. A letter from our lawyer invoking the foreclosure clause in the contract brought a check right away. It did take a second letter form the lawyer to get the penalty payment (also in the contract) ti get the note re-instated by me. He hasn't missed a payment since. I'd rather have the money flowing into the estate than shoot the guy. On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 4:51 PM, Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu wrote: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com writes: Most of the time things would be better solved if we didn't have the ability to sue each other. And how would things get solved then? -- Allan Streib ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve
I though maybe it was because the OSU mascot eliminated them. Whoof (blowing on the end of the barrel) Nope - just happened to luck into one that seems good. On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 7:45 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: OKIE DON SEZ: Yes, MY lawyer is good, YOUR lawyer is the root of all evil. You must have better shysters in Okieland than the rest of the country. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve
The Laffer Curve is a brilliant economic theory which makes total sense. Unfortunately, I have never seen anyone who can definitely put empirical data on it, or scale the axes with any certainty. I do not understand anyone can completely blame the federal debt on Democrats. Under Reagan, the FD rose from approximately $900 billion to approximately $2.8 trillion...that's about 211%. And I liked Reagan and voted for him twice, but lets keep our eye on the FACTS here. Here is a short video that explains what happened since 2001 (the last year we had a budget surplus): http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/economy/news/2012/10/24/42577/video-where-did-the-debt-come-from/ Jon On Nov 10, 2012, at 8:43 PM, Curt Raymond wrote: Just as in the '60s part of it was not to get into a war where we weren't wanted, weren't needed and didn't have any exit strategy. Worse this time because we already were in a war where we didn't have an exit strategy. We could have been done with Afghanistan years earlier if we hadn't taken our eyes off the ball. Oh and trying to pay for it all with emergency budgets was treasonous. -Curt Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 11:06:13 -0600 From: Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve Message-ID: 2054fe58-e296-45c9-8ff5-eb020a1ea...@earthlink.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes The current situation is exactly what you get when you reduce income and go on a borrowing spree. The correct thing to have done in 2001 is to have let interest rates stay where they were -- the Wall Street panic was just that and ddin't need intervention, just a swift kick in the pants -- and to RAISE tax rates to pay for the 2 trillion dollar a year war we've been in since 2003. Same thing as the 60's --- not a single dime in added taxes for the East Asian Police Action, with the result that the economy when over the cliff in about 1968. This is as reliable as sunrise, and anyone who says different is blowing smoke. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve
When I lived in Canada, the Reform Party handed out a flier with a graph of the national debt vs time and party. I think I kept it, but it's buried in all the junk in the basement I've not looked at in years, but I'll describe it. When the Liberals/Labour/New Democrats were in power, the debt shrunk (basically the same party, names change). When the Tories were in power, the debt grew exponentially. Why? Tories always cut taxes, spent huge sums of money on stupid things (like advertising for a proposed Constitutional Amendment that would give Quebec MORE money and less taxes). Buying lots of military stuff from the US was popular too. This is also true in the US -- debt almost always explodes when the Republicans are in power and falls when Democrats are. The stock market does much better under Democrats, too, on average (although that's not such a tight correlation). I've decided that the radial right has fully absorbed the lessons from 1984 -- they use every expression in the OPPOSITE manner. When they say my opponent is lying it means they are, etc. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve
On Sun, 11 Nov 2012 07:11:46 -0500 Jon Agne jonag...@gwi.net wrote: I do not understand anyone can completely blame the federal debt on Democrats. Under Reagan, the FD rose from approximately $900 billion to approximately $2.8 trillion...that's about 211%. And I liked Reagan and voted for him twice, but lets keep our eye on the FACTS here. Like I said, the FACT is that while government income rose by a factor of two under Reagan, spending rose by a factor of three. That shows the real problem is in Congress, which was controlled by Democrats at the time, though both sides are guilty. Should Reagan have vetoed the budgets, like Clinton did? It's easy to look back and say yes. The Democrats promised Reagan a spending cut if he would increase taxes. He did increase taxes, but he is still waiting for the spending cut. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve
On Sun, 11 Nov 2012 07:27:44 -0600 Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net wrote: This is also true in the US -- debt almost always explodes when the Republicans are in power and falls when Democrats are. The stock market does much better under Democrats, too, on average (although that's not such a tight correlation). It depends upon how you define who is in power. Is that the Congress, the White House or both? What you have said is not true. We had a surplus under Clinton because the Republican Congress kept him from spending as much as he wanted. Under Obama, with a Democratic Congress the first two years, our national debt went from 10.5 to 16 trillion dollars -- an increase of 51%. Remember the cash for clunkers? Remember the stimulus program which didn't really stimulate anything? I've decided that the radial right has fully absorbed the lessons from 1984 -- they use every expression in the OPPOSITE manner. When they say my opponent is lying it means they are, etc. It's easy to call people names. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve
I think it normally works this way: 1) The President proposes a budget, and 2) Congress passes the budget. If you look historically, almost all budgets were within 3% (plus or minus) of what each President has proposed. On Nov 11, 2012, at 10:08 AM, Craig wrote: On Sun, 11 Nov 2012 07:11:46 -0500 Jon Agne jonag...@gwi.net wrote: I do not understand anyone can completely blame the federal debt on Democrats. Under Reagan, the FD rose from approximately $900 billion to approximately $2.8 trillion...that's about 211%. And I liked Reagan and voted for him twice, but lets keep our eye on the FACTS here. Like I said, the FACT is that while government income rose by a factor of two under Reagan, spending rose by a factor of three. That shows the real problem is in Congress, which was controlled by Democrats at the time, though both sides are guilty. Should Reagan have vetoed the budgets, like Clinton did? It's easy to look back and say yes. The Democrats promised Reagan a spending cut if he would increase taxes. He did increase taxes, but he is still waiting for the spending cut. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve
On Sun, 11 Nov 2012 10:21:14 -0500 Jon Agne jonag...@gwi.net wrote: I think it normally works this way: 1) The President proposes a budget, and 2) Congress passes the budget. It's supposed to be: 1) The House of Representatives develops and passes a budget bill, 2) The Senate also passes the bill, subject to negotiations with the House, and, 3) The President signs the bill and the U.S. has a budget. Note that recently no budget has been passed, only Continuing Resolutions, which continue the previous spending. Our duly elected representatives kicking the can down the road. If you look historically, almost all budgets were within 3% (plus or minus) of what each President has proposed. Probably to avoid the threat of a veto. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve
Is it time for someone to mention Hitler? grin Dan On Nov 11, 2012, at 10:28 AM, Craig wrote: On Sun, 11 Nov 2012 10:21:14 -0500 Jon Agne jonag...@gwi.net wrote: I think it normally works this way: 1) The President proposes a budget, and 2) Congress passes the budget. It's supposed to be: 1) The House of Representatives develops and passes a budget bill, 2) The Senate also passes the bill, subject to negotiations with the House, and, 3) The President signs the bill and the U.S. has a budget. Note that recently no budget has been passed, only Continuing Resolutions, which continue the previous spending. Our duly elected representatives kicking the can down the road. If you look historically, almost all budgets were within 3% (plus or minus) of what each President has proposed. Probably to avoid the threat of a veto. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve
On Nov 11, 2012 10:45 AM, Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com wrote: Is it time for someone to mention Hitler? grin Well, Craig mentioned cash for clunkers, which I seem to recall was in the scope of the main list. Speaking of: - I noticed the junk yard is now stocking a lot more older (i.e. 70-80s) cars than a couple of years ago. - Almost every day I walk past a Kia with a novelty front plate that reads, My other car was a clunker. Always get a kick out of that. Best, Tim Watching for falling sky ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve
Last time I checked, the US of A has not had a budget for 4 years, in violation of the constitution. I think it normally works this way: 1) The President proposes a budget, and 2) Congress passes the budget. If you look historically, almost all budgets were within 3% (plus or minus) of what each President has proposed. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve
I'm in favor of impeaching them all and electing a fresh group, preferably with no prior experience! -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300 '87 300TD Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: Last time I checked, the US of A has not had a budget for 4 years, in violation of the constitution. I think it normally works this way: 1) The President proposes a budget, and 2) Congress passes the budget. If you look historically, almost all budgets were within 3% (plus or minus) of what each President has proposed. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve
On Sun, 11 Nov 2012 15:08:22 -0500 Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net wrote: I'm in favor of impeaching them all and electing a fresh group, preferably with no prior experience! Aye! There's the rub! Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve
You wrote a fresh group, preferably with no prior experience Hmmm.. that sounds a lot like the executive branch we have now... LarryT Let your engine tell you how healthy it is! Visit www.youroil.net For Inexpensive Oil Test Kits! - Original Message - From: Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 3:08:22 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve I'm in favor of impeaching them all and electing a fresh group, preferably with no prior experience! -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300 '87 300TD Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: Last time I checked, the US of A has not had a budget for 4 years, in violation of the constitution. I think it normally works this way: 1) The President proposes a budget, and 2) Congress passes the budget. If you look historically, almost all budgets were within 3% (plus or minus) of what each President has proposed. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve
Only problem with that is the learning curve is VERY steep. And we pay the consequences of that! Having served on a number of board and as president of a few volunteer organizations, you really need experienced people, avoids all sorts of learning curve errors. On the flip side, usually people who are all hot to be in charge aren't suited for the job. I have always advocated a citizen government, and that means not leaving people in office forever. Sadly, I only have one vote! Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve
On Sun, 11 Nov 2012 15:08:22 -0500 Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net wrote: I'm in favor of impeaching them all and electing a fresh group, preferably with no prior experience! Aye! There's the rub! Craig The problem may be too many lawyers. . Thomas Jefferson said, If the present Congress errs in too much talking, how can it be otherwise in a body to which the people send one hundred and fifty lawyers, whose trade it is to question everything, yield nothing, and talk by the hour? . According to the Congressional Research Service 170 members of the House and 60 Senators are lawyers. Out of a total of 435 U.S. Representatives and 100 Senators (535 total in Congress), lawyers comprise the biggest voting block of one type, making up 43% of Congress. Gerry ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve
On Sun, 11 Nov 2012 23:30:16 -0600 OK Don okd...@gmail.com wrote: Didn't Shakespeare write The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.? - Yes, *Henry The Sixth, Part 2 Act 4, scene 2, 71– 78*http://www.enotes.com/henryvi-ii-text/act-iv-scene-2#killlawyers. Where are the English majors when we need them? Asleep in bed, like we should be. :-) Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve
But it's a holiday tomorrow, can't I stay up late Dad? On Sun, Nov 11, 2012 at 11:31 PM, Craig diese...@pisquared.net wrote: On Sun, 11 Nov 2012 23:30:16 -0600 OK Don okd...@gmail.com wrote: Didn't Shakespeare write The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.? - Yes, *Henry The Sixth, Part 2 Act 4, scene 2, 71– 78*http://www.enotes.com/henryvi-ii-text/act-iv-scene-2#killlawyers. Where are the English majors when we need them? Asleep in bed, like we should be. :-) Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- OK Don 2001 ML320 2012 Passat TDI DSG 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager 1957 C182A ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve
Yeah but its a lot easier to get support for needless wars when they are borrowed. For WWI and WWII the nation gave tremendously to support to the war effort. On Sat, Nov 10, 2012 at 10:06 AM, Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.netwrote: The current situation is exactly what you get when you reduce income and go on a borrowing spree. The correct thing to have done in 2001 is to have let interest rates stay where they were -- the Wall Street panic was just that and ddin't need intervention, just a swift kick in the pants -- and to RAISE tax rates to pay for the 2 trillion dollar a year war we've been in since 2003. Same thing as the 60's --- not a single dime in added taxes for the East Asian Police Action, with the result that the economy when over the cliff in about 1968. This is as reliable as sunrise, and anyone who says different is blowing smoke. Peter __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve
Hey y'all -- it's over. Barry won again. Whinging won't change a thing. It will unfold for 4 more years then we get to do it all over again. Live with it, however. YMMV. --R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve
And the solution is to raise taxes and PAY OFF THE DEBT, not dismantle the industrial infrastructure of the nation. Lots of historical precidents for what happens when you don't: Spain The UK China Germany Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve
Sure, the election is over. But the financial cliff is the simultaneous implementation of Sequestration and roll-back of the Bush tax cuts, both on 2 Jan 2013; and that is far from over. These events will both occur unless Congress passes a new law changing it, or Barry makes some unconstitutional move that circumvents Congress. Anyone taking bets? -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Rich Thomas Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2012 2:07 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve Hey y'all -- it's over. Barry won again. Whinging won't change a thing. It will unfold for 4 more years then we get to do it all over again. Live with it, however. YMMV. --R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve
Again, there is absolutely nothing that any whinging is going to do about it at this point. Our whole set of representatives abrogated their responsibility to its citizens until the last coupla weeks to deal with a HUGE problem, because had they stood up and taken positions they would have caused considerable consternation (though I guess Barry is now saying he had a position and it has been validated, so he says he did stand up and take a position, maybe so). And most of them got re-elected to continue not doing what needs to be done. Whatever they do or don't decide to do is not going to make one whit of difference to the primary fundamental issues, because none of them have the interest, ability, or fortitude to stand up and deal with it. (I am not sure it is even possible to deal with the fundamental problems given the electorate and the representatives we have elected to do our bidding.) Why would you expect any rational outcome from whatever happens? I understand that anyone who is actually paying attention might (should?) have some degree of anxiety about it all, whichever side you are on, but it is one of those things that you just have to accept as beyond your control, come to terms with it, and get on with life in whatever way you can given the circumstances. Panem et circes, y'all. OR... The only way to make change in what you perceive to be counter to your interests is to start getting involved in your local politics, whether as a candidate, supporting a candidate, working for your party, writing letters to your paper and representatives, holding/going to meetings, organizing like-minded individuals, etc. and working toward an outcome more satisfying to your sensibilities. It takes time and effort and work, more so than posting an email to the Benz group. Tip O'Neill had it right -- all politics are local. Read these and think about them and give them a try (note: the word radical is from the Latin radix which means root, it is not necessarily a bad thing to be a radical) You get a few dozen people to start doing this kind of stuff at council meetings, etc. and pretty soon the pols start wondering WTF has happened to them, because they are mostly used to people not being engaged and riding their asses about stuff that matters. They actually have to start working at it a bit and trying to earn their keep. Oh -- and the papers love this stuff, it gives them something to actually write about and stir things up. http://teageegeepea.tripod.com/maumau.html http://www.keepandshare.com/doc3/9558/rules-for-radicals-saul-alinsky-pdf-january-26-2012-5-54-pm-597k Just as an example, locally we have a really significant issue regarding a roads project -- 8 miles through the marsh and rivers and county park and rural areas for $558M !!! Over half a Billion dollars! And it will blow out the whole roads budget in the state for at least the next 10 or more years. A bunch of us have organized to fight this thing, in the last few weeks we have almost 4500 people on a facebook group, writing letters/emails, going to meetings, filing FOIA requests, mau-mauing the representatives, other reps all over the state aligned on this, and generally riding their asses constantly, and this has actually made a difference! The good ol' boy scoundrels can no longer do their back-room dealing as they would like, and they are getting desperate now that people are on to their bullsh*t. Tuesday evening we are likely to have a coupla hundred people at a city council meeting raising hell about this thing, and we know they are seriously scared of that. We have lawsuits lined up and will fill every meeting from now until doomsday to fight this thing. Fun times. Give it a try and stop whinging -- DO SOMETHING! --R On 11/10/12 5:33 PM, Scott Ritchey wrote: Sure, the election is over. But the financial cliff is the simultaneous implementation of Sequestration and roll-back of the Bush tax cuts, both on 2 Jan 2013; and that is far from over. These events will both occur unless Congress passes a new law changing it, or Barry makes some unconstitutional move that circumvents Congress. Anyone taking bets? -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Rich Thomas Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2012 2:07 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve Hey y'all -- it's over. Barry won again. Whinging won't change a thing. It will unfold for 4 more years then we get to do it all over again. Live with it, however. YMMV. --R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve
You listen to conservative talk radio too much. My 401k is up year over year. I lost a little in 2008 but have well recovered. My personal income has DOUBLED and more since 2001. Yeah my house value is in the toilet but as my Dad says the same thing happened to him in the '80s and when it happened to him he had a 15% mortgage, mine is only 7.375% and through the HARP program we should be able to get that down. I have a good stable job, I interviewed for jobs in both 2010 and 2011, in 2010 I was offered the job (with a slight pay raise) and turned it down, managed to get a small retention bonus from the current company. The media does everything they can to make you scared look how bad things are. Things aren't so bad, yeah Syria is a hotspot but northern Ireland isn't, on balance it has been a whole lot worse in the past. People bitch about the unemployment rate but I remember not long ago people were saying that 6% was full employment when we went to 4.5% in 1999 people were amazed and still when I graduated college (also in 1999) some in my class couldn't get jobs. Remember the media's job is to make you consume more media, they do that by making you scared... -Curt Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 09:10:43 -0700 From: G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve Message-ID: CANTuLYguzE=zckhtgfjm1xnywpitwba-6f-rg+6q8ouduc+...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 It is my considered opinion we are already personally over the financial cliff and in freefall, having not yet hit the sharp rocks below. Since 2008 personal retirement account values have, across the board, reduced a reported 46%. Home values, reduced nearly 1/2. Employment prospects, ie job advancement or job retention, now have futures that can only be called dismal. New hires, virtually not existant, relative to the work population. The element of cushion provided by government programs is shot through with waste and fraud, as well as poor leadership. Said programs can not be kept alive by spending more tax dollars from non-existent new jobs or advance of industry, so borrowing our way out of debt is the chosen answer. I grew up in a time when we had insane asylums where we put people who were as crazy as our elected officials... I suppose the next government program will be prozac stamps to make everyone feel good while Rome burns. Disgusted isn't strong enough, and projectile vomiting can't be sustained as a form of protest... We voted these miscreants into office, it's our collective fault. Comforting? Grant... On Sat, Nov 10, 2012 at 8:56 AM, Scott Ritchey ritche...@nc.rr.com wrote: Personally, I hope we go over the financial cliff. That should provide a quick dose of reality. The sooner we realize the insanity of the current path, the sooner we can do something less stupid. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve
Just as in the '60s part of it was not to get into a war where we weren't wanted, weren't needed and didn't have any exit strategy. Worse this time because we already were in a war where we didn't have an exit strategy. We could have been done with Afghanistan years earlier if we hadn't taken our eyes off the ball. Oh and trying to pay for it all with emergency budgets was treasonous. -Curt Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 11:06:13 -0600 From: Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve Message-ID: 2054fe58-e296-45c9-8ff5-eb020a1ea...@earthlink.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes The current situation is exactly what you get when you reduce income and go on a borrowing spree. The correct thing to have done in 2001 is to have let interest rates stay where they were -- the Wall Street panic was just that and ddin't need intervention, just a swift kick in the pants -- and to RAISE tax rates to pay for the 2 trillion dollar a year war we've been in since 2003. Same thing as the 60's --- not a single dime in added taxes for the East Asian Police Action, with the result that the economy when over the cliff in about 1968. This is as reliable as sunrise, and anyone who says different is blowing smoke. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve
A bunch of my friends on Facebook are acting like its the end of the world. The end of democracy they all say. Facebook didn't exist in 2004 I don't think but I bet when all the libs were crying and saying they were going to go to Canada these folks would have held a party. -Curt Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 14:06:49 -0500 From: Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve Message-ID: 509ea5c9.1040...@constructivity.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Hey y'all -- it's over. Barry won again. Whinging won't change a thing. It will unfold for 4 more years then we get to do it all over again. Live with it, however. YMMV. --R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve
Governments don't have memories. Wilton - Original Message - From: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com To: Diesel List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2012 8:43 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve Just as in the '60s part of it was not to get into a war where we weren't wanted, weren't needed and didn't have any exit strategy. Worse this time because we already were in a war where we didn't have an exit strategy. We could have been done with Afghanistan years earlier if we hadn't taken our eyes off the ball. Oh and trying to pay for it all with emergency budgets was treasonous. -Curt Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 11:06:13 -0600 From: Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve Message-ID: 2054fe58-e296-45c9-8ff5-eb020a1ea...@earthlink.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes The current situation is exactly what you get when you reduce income and go on a borrowing spree. The correct thing to have done in 2001 is to have let interest rates stay where they were -- the Wall Street panic was just that and ddin't need intervention, just a swift kick in the pants -- and to RAISE tax rates to pay for the 2 trillion dollar a year war we've been in since 2003. Same thing as the 60's --- not a single dime in added taxes for the East Asian Police Action, with the result that the economy when over the cliff in about 1968. This is as reliable as sunrise, and anyone who says different is blowing smoke. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] The Laffer curve
Governments don't have memories. Wilton Gummits are brain dead too. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
