audio volume stuck at max
Hi all, Jacob, I have noticed this problem off and on, where the audio volume is stuck at max (or close to it) and I am unable to adjust the volume until I reboot. This doesn't happen often, and with the current snapshot I've been running, for a month now, it is the first time it has happened; I had thought whatever the glitch was, it had got fixed, but I guess not quite :) The ibook is right now in this condition, and if there is anything you want me to try and send you info while in this state let me know. I'll have to shutoff the ibook in the morning when I leave for work (it travels with me); that's in about nine or so hours from now. --patrick $ dmesg [ using 437464 bytes of bsd ELF symbol table ] console out [ATY,Via_A]console in [keyboard] USB and ADB found, using ADB using parent ATY,ViaParent:: memaddr 9800 size 800, : consaddr 9c008000, : ioaddr 9002, size 2: memtag 8000, iotag 8000: width 1024 linebytes 1024 height 768 depth 8 Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1989, 1991, 1993 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. Copyright (c) 1995-2009 OpenBSD. All rights reserved. http://www.OpenBSD.org OpenBSD 4.6 (GENERIC) #38: Fri Jul 3 18:40:45 MDT 2009 dera...@macppc.openbsd.org:/usr/src/sys/arch/macppc/compile/GENERIC real mem = 671088640 (640MB) avail mem = 636502016 (607MB) mainbus0 at root: model PowerBook6,3 cpu0 at mainbus0: 7455 (Revision 0x303): 799 MHz: 256KB L2 cache mem0 at mainbus0 spdmem0 at mem0: no EEPROM found spdmem1 at mem0: 512MB DDR SDRAM non-parity PC2100CL2.5 memc0 at mainbus0: uni-n "hw-clock" at memc0 not configured kiic0 at memc0 offset 0xf8001000 iic0 at kiic0 adt0 at iic0 addr 0xae: adt7467 rev 0x71 "cy28512" at iic0 addr 0xe9 not configured mpcpcibr0 at mainbus0 pci: uni-north, Revision 0xff pci0 at mpcpcibr0 bus 0 pchb0 at pci0 dev 11 function 0 "Apple UniNorth AGP" rev 0x00 vgafb0 at pci0 dev 16 function 0 "ATI Radeon Mobility 9200" rev 0x01, mmio wsdisplay0 at vgafb0 mux 1: console (std, vt100 emulation) mpcpcibr1 at mainbus0 pci: uni-north, Revision 0x5 pci1 at mpcpcibr1 bus 0 pchb1 at pci1 dev 11 function 0 "Apple UniNorth PCI" rev 0x00 bwi0 at pci1 dev 18 function 0 "Broadcom BCM4306" rev 0x03: irq 52, address 00:0d:93:84:04:88 macobio0 at pci1 dev 23 function 0 "Apple Intrepid" rev 0x00 openpic0 at macobio0 offset 0x4: version 0x4614 little endian macgpio0 at macobio0 offset 0x50 macgpio1 at macgpio0 offset 0x9 irq 47 "programmer-switch" at macgpio0 offset 0x11 not configured "gpio4" at macgpio0 offset 0x1e not configured "frequency-gpio" at macgpio0 offset 0x1a not configured "voltage-gpio" at macgpio0 offset 0x1b not configured "slewing-done" at macgpio0 offset 0x12 not configured "gpio5" at macgpio0 offset 0x6f not configured "gpio6" at macgpio0 offset 0x70 not configured "gpio11" at macgpio0 offset 0x75 not configured "extint-gpio15" at macgpio0 offset 0x67 not configured "escc-legacy" at macobio0 offset 0x12000 not configured zsc0 at macobio0 offset 0x13000: irq 22,23 zstty0 at zsc0 channel 0 zstty1 at zsc0 channel 1 snapper0 at macobio0 offset 0x1: irq 30,1,2 "timer" at macobio0 offset 0x15000 not configured adb0 at macobio0 offset 0x16000 irq 25: via-pmu, 3 targets akbd0 at adb0 addr 2: PowerBook G4 keyboard (Inverted T) wskbd0 at akbd0: console keyboard, using wsdisplay0 ams0 at adb0 addr 3: EMP trackpad 4-button, 400 dpi wsmouse0 at ams0 mux 0 abtn0 at adb0 addr 7: brightness/volume/eject buttons apm0 at adb0: battery flags 0x4, 99% charged piic0 at adb0 iic1 at piic0 "battery" at macobio0 offset 0x0 not configured "backlight" at macobio0 offset 0xf300 not configured kiic1 at macobio0 offset 0x18000 iic2 at kiic1 wdc0 at macobio0 offset 0x2 irq 24: DMA atapiscsi0 at wdc0 channel 0 drive 0 scsibus0 at atapiscsi0: 2 targets cd0 at scsibus0 targ 0 lun 0: ATAPI 5/cdrom removable cd0(wdc0:0:0): using BIOS timings, DMA mode 2 audio0 at snapper0 ohci0 at pci1 dev 24 function 0 "Apple Intrepid USB" rev 0x00: irq 0, version 1.0, legacy support ohci1 at pci1 dev 25 function 0 "Apple Intrepid USB" rev 0x00: irq 0, version 1.0, legacy support ohci2 at pci1 dev 26 function 0 "Apple Intrepid USB" rev 0x00: irq 29, version 1.0, legacy support ohci3 at pci1 dev 27 function 0 "NEC USB" rev 0x43: irq 63, version 1.0 ohci4 at pci1 dev 27 function 1 "NEC USB" rev 0x43: irq 63, version 1.0 ehci0 at pci1 dev 27 function 2 "NEC USB" rev 0x04: irq 63 usb0 at ehci0: USB revision 2.0 uhub0 at usb0 "NEC EHCI root hub" rev 2.00/1.00 addr 1 usb1 at ohci0: USB revision 1.0 uhub1 at usb1 "Apple OHCI root hub" rev 1.00/1.00 addr 1 usb2 at ohci1: USB revision 1.0 uhub2 at usb2 "Apple OHCI root hub" rev 1.00/1.00 addr 1 usb3 at ohci2: USB revision 1.0 uhub3 at usb3 "Apple OHCI root hub" rev 1.00/1.00 addr 1 usb4 at ohci3: USB revision 1.0 uhub4 at usb4 "NEC OHCI root hub" rev 1.00/1.00 addr 1 usb5 at ohci4: USB revision 1.0 uhub5 at usb5 "NEC OHCI root hub" rev 1.00/1.00 addr 1 mpcpcibr2 at mainbus0 pci: uni-north, Revision
Re: cvs rdiff error
On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Daniel Bolgheroni wrote: > On Thu, 6 Aug 2009, Stuart Henderson wrote: > >> On 2009-08-06, Daniel Bolgheroni wrote: >> > I'm trying to use cvs rdiff command in some files but I'm getting error: >> >> Try another mirror, anoncvs3.usa runs OpenCVS which doesn't support all >> features yet. >> >> $ cvs -danon...@anoncvs3.usa.openbsd.org:/cvs version >> Client: Concurrent Versions System (CVS) 1.11.1p1 (client/server) >> Server: OpenCVS 4.5 > > Yes, it works with others servers. However, I'm getting another error. > > For example: > > $ pwd > /usr/src/sys/arch/hppa/hppa > $ cvs -danon...@rt.fm:/cvs rdiff -u -t pmap.c > cvs server: cannot find module `pmap.c' - ignored > $ cvs -danon...@rt.fm:/cvs rdiff -r1.138 -r1.137 pmap.c > cvs server: cannot find module `pmap.c' - ignored > $ > > It only fails with the rdiff command. Works fine with others I use most, > like log, diff, etc. > > Any hints again? from cvs(1): rdiff Prepare a collection of diffs as a patch file between two releases in the repository. ... rdiff [-flags] [-V vn] [-r t|-D d [-r t2|-D d2]] modules... vs. diff [-kl] [rcsdiff_options] [[-r rev1 | -D date1] [-r rev2 | -D date2]] [files...] --patrick
Re: cvs rdiff error
On Thu, 6 Aug 2009, Stuart Henderson wrote: > On 2009-08-06, Daniel Bolgheroni wrote: > > I'm trying to use cvs rdiff command in some files but I'm getting error: > > Try another mirror, anoncvs3.usa runs OpenCVS which doesn't support all > features yet. > > $ cvs -danon...@anoncvs3.usa.openbsd.org:/cvs version > Client: Concurrent Versions System (CVS) 1.11.1p1 (client/server) > Server: OpenCVS 4.5 Yes, it works with others servers. However, I'm getting another error. For example: $ pwd /usr/src/sys/arch/hppa/hppa $ cvs -danon...@rt.fm:/cvs rdiff -u -t pmap.c cvs server: cannot find module `pmap.c' - ignored $ cvs -danon...@rt.fm:/cvs rdiff -r1.138 -r1.137 pmap.c cvs server: cannot find module `pmap.c' - ignored $ It only fails with the rdiff command. Works fine with others I use most, like log, diff, etc. Any hints again? Thank you. -- Daniel Bolgheroni FEI - Faculdade de Engenharia Industrial http://www.dbolgheroni.eng.br/mykey ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) against HTML e-mail X / \
Re: PF with BGP & CARP for a router
On 01/08/2009 13:48, Jussi Peltola wrote: pass quick on $PFSYNCIF inet proto pfsync from $PFSYNCALLOW keep state pass quick on $INTIFinet proto carp from $CARPALLOW keep state IIRC you should use keep state (no-sync) here since these aren't very meaningful on the other fw I'm gonna have a look at this. I'm not sure if I see a typical border filtering scheme (maybe I didn't read carefully enough), you'll want to drop: * Packets not from you (your advertised prefix) to your ISP, probably also log these (even though your ISP should drop them, they might not[1] and you really want to know about them) True. * Packets from you from your ISP, they are not you. Logging these should be interesting, too. I'm gonna add this. * Probably also: packets not addressed to you from your ISP Thanks for your input and advice. I'm reworking the pf config and will post the updates once the file is clean.
Re: Problems using SUNIX 8 serial port card
Stuart Henderson wrote: Perhaps the multiplier in the puc(4) driver is wrong for this card, in which case setting a particular speed in cu would not /actually/ give that speed on the serial line.. You're right. First, as ever, try a -current snapshot in case it was since fixed. If not, collect together these things for another email: - dmesg (I know you sent one, but it's helpful to have everything relevant collected in a single email) - try different port speeds and try and find one that does display correctly - include pcidevs -v output I've done all that in a proper bug report (system/6206) sent to b...@openbsd.org with the sendbug(1) command. I still have to test a patch submitted by Theo. We may close this thread on misc. I will report back the results of my tests on b...@cvs.openbsd.org. Thank you very much for your help.
Re: cvs rdiff error
On 2009-08-06, Daniel Bolgheroni wrote: > I'm trying to use cvs rdiff command in some files but I'm getting error: Try another mirror, anoncvs3.usa runs OpenCVS which doesn't support all features yet. $ cvs -danon...@anoncvs3.usa.openbsd.org:/cvs version Client: Concurrent Versions System (CVS) 1.11.1p1 (client/server) Server: OpenCVS 4.5
Re: boot disk ???
On Thu, Aug 06, 2009 at 02:20:37PM -0400, PJ wrote: > Chris Dukes wrote: > > On Thu, Aug 06, 2009 at 12:54:12PM -0400, PJ wrote: > > [ A lot of crap snipped ] > > > > Phil, > > You failed to answer the question. > > "What the hell is your end goal?" > > > > I have a simpler question for you. > > Are you too incompetent to answer a question like "What the hell is > > your end goal?" > > A) Yes > > B) No > > C) I don't know > > > > If you fail to answer "A", "B", or "C", it will lead us to believe > > that yes, you are that incompetent. > > If you answer "B" and fail to provide a 1-5 sentence answer to > > "What the hell is your end goal?" we will assume that you are > > that incompetent. > > > > Most people here have already decided that you are that incompetent. > > They are enjoying an opportunity to make fun of your incompetence. > > > > I'm giving you the brief benefit of the doubt that the trials and > > tribulations of your life lead you to describe the metaphorical > > alligators you are wrestling rather than the metaphorical matter you > > need to drain the swamp. > > > Maybe you could be more specific... What do you mean by end goal? > Perhaps my thinking is too abstract for you... Ah, you are imcompetent. As for a more specific answer. Here's an example. "My employer needs to replace a Cisco router between the developers and file servers that only has 10Mbit NICs as well as a PIX firewall that is no longer firewalling, has no manuals, and the individual with the admin passwords is gone due to a heart attack. My employer has no budget for Cisco kit, but has a pile of NICs from dead eMachines and a handful of extra PCs." Noone in their right mind installs an operating system just to install an operating system. For the matter, noone in their right mind uses a computer to just use a computer. There are rational human oriented end goals for which installing an operating system *MIGHT* be a rational step. You exhibit the behavior of "Oooh, a screw. I'll get a wrench to drive it into my thumb and then sue the screw manufacturer for not putting a warning label on each screw." If your end goal is to hit your thumb, more power to you. If your end goal is to attach two boards together, someone here might be able to show you the magic of nails, screwdrivers, and drills. -- Chris Dukes
Re: boot disk ???
On Thursday 06 August 2009 14:20:37 PJ wrote: > Chris Dukes wrote: > > On Thu, Aug 06, 2009 at 12:54:12PM -0400, PJ wrote: > > [ A lot of crap snipped ] > > > > Phil, > > You failed to answer the question. > > "What the hell is your end goal?" > > > > I have a simpler question for you. > > Are you too incompetent to answer a question like "What the hell is > > your end goal?" > > A) Yes > > B) No > > C) I don't know > > > > If you fail to answer "A", "B", or "C", it will lead us to believe > > that yes, you are that incompetent. > > If you answer "B" and fail to provide a 1-5 sentence answer to > > "What the hell is your end goal?" we will assume that you are > > that incompetent. > > > > Most people here have already decided that you are that incompetent. > > They are enjoying an opportunity to make fun of your incompetence. > > > > I'm giving you the brief benefit of the doubt that the trials and > > tribulations of your life lead you to describe the metaphorical > > alligators you are wrestling rather than the metaphorical matter you > > need to drain the swamp. > > Maybe you could be more specific... What do you mean by end goal? > Perhaps my thinking is too abstract for you... > If you mean why am I asking for help? or if it's about setting up > OpenBSD, it's that I need an OS that is functional and reliable and > more-or-less user friendly. MS is out as it is non of the above (user > friendly, maybe if you're an idiot). FreeBSD used to be great but just > slid downhill... Linux is too spread-out and has too many threads... I > don't care for their confusing philosophies... I haven't looked at > NetBSD but have heard of it and I like what I heard about OpenBSD from > Neal. > > Now what is the purpose of this interrogation? > > I made a mistake about the boot disk, and I'm sorry. I jumped to > conclusions. > But I really had no other options at the time... I still don't know what > is wrong in this rather unusual and extremely rare situation. I can only > assume that any dvd/cd writer that is current on the market and that I > have on other machines will work on this one. And, strangely, other > dvd/cd drives have worked without problem on this machine as well... so > why, is it this machine and this drive when all else functions well... > What else am I to look for? Sure you had options. Instead of making the claim that it was OpenBSDs fault, you could have looked at your hardware. I was one of the early responders to your query, and I didn't think to put in checking the hardware because I'd thought you'd have done that, at the very start. Sadly you have started off with OpenBSD in the worst possible way. My advice to you would be to stay silent, and READ the OpenBSD site, the FAQ, and google for other OpenBSD sites and read those, as well. OpenBSD holds together very very well. It is the only operating system that I trust enough to be able to use the in-development version for a production system (with testing, of course). But the user base doesn't take whining very well. If you read up on this os, say spending 20 hours actually reading about it, you'll find it to be a great resource. This is my last comment on this. --STeve Andre'
Re: boot disk ??? closed
Michael wrote: > PJ, you wrote (in part) "I already posted wherefrom - openBSD ftp > site; the burning was done exaactly the same as for the FreeBSD and > many other files without ever having any problems... and I mean, EVER > !" > > If burning files or images worked before, why should we think it > was/is an hardware or bios problem? > > On 8/6/09, PJ wrote: > >> Bret S. Lambert wrote: >> >>> On Thu, Aug 06, 2009 at 02:24:21PM -0400, PJ wrote: >>> >>> I've managed by myself so far >>> Except, really, you haven't, because you apparently (unless I've missed >>> something) >>> >> You did miss everything... if you were paying attention and not >> emotionally hyped up (I just love provoking) you would have seen that I >> fixed my problems with FreeBSD by myself, saved the crah, the files, the >> OS (XP) and did make the right cd. And you like the rest of your >> emotionally crippled buddies didn't think that there might be something >> else in the bag of worms. >> No one thought of other problems, like, maybe there's something awry in >> the bios or drive configuration or the mb itself... >> I thought of that and found the malady but not yet the cure... Indeed I >> will find it and will save you the trouble of bothering to learn >> anything... ciao, baby and hasta la vista. :-* >> >>> still can't make a bootable .iso. You come in and ask what are >>> charitably described as ignorant questions, immediately blaming everything >>> and everyone but yourself. You seem to have narrowed it down to a hardware >>> issue...except that that still doesn't seem to be it. So it looks more >>> and more like it's coming down to PEBCAK. >>> >>> But, hey, if you want to throw a pity party because those riding the >>> intertruck are being mean to you, go right ahead. Just don't expect >>> anybody else to think you're holy because you've nailed yourself to >>> a cross. >>> >>> >>> >> -- >> HervC) Kempf: "Pour sauver la planC(te, sortez du capitalisme." >> - >> Phil Jourdan --- p...@ptahhotep.com >>http://www.ptahhotep.com >>http://www.chiccantine.com/andypantry.php >> >> >> > > I'd say you are making assumptions and not looking at the problem as a whole. I suggest we close this topic as it is wearisome and not going anywhere...forget all this nonselse, I'll figure it out by myself...and with a few leads from someof the nicer guys on the list... they know who they are... So, drop it... and "amici come prima" PJ -- HervC) Kempf: "Pour sauver la planC(te, sortez du capitalisme." - Phil Jourdan --- p...@ptahhotep.com http://www.ptahhotep.com http://www.chiccantine.com/andypantry.php
Re: boot disk ???
On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 3:46 PM, Michael wrote: > > If burning files or images worked before, why should we think it > was/is an hardware or bios problem? You obviously did not install the ESP dependency for the FREE HELP DESK package. Can someone please check the ports tree? -Tai -- http://www.glumbert.com/media/shift http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGvHNNOLnCk "This officer's men seem to follow him merely out of idle curiosity." -- Sandhurst officer cadet evaluation. "Securing an environment of Windows platforms from abuse - external or internal - is akin to trying to install sprinklers in a fireworks factory where smoking on the job is permitted." -- Gene Spafford learn french: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1G-3laJJP0&feature=related
Re: boot disk ???
> > >> I've managed by myself so far > That's the wierdest idea of "by myself" I've ever seen. > Go back to your cup holder. Please, cupholders deserve a quiet life, too.
Re: boot disk ???
PJ, you wrote (in part) "I already posted wherefrom - openBSD ftp site; the burning was done exaactly the same as for the FreeBSD and many other files without ever having any problems... and I mean, EVER !" If burning files or images worked before, why should we think it was/is an hardware or bios problem? On 8/6/09, PJ wrote: > Bret S. Lambert wrote: >> On Thu, Aug 06, 2009 at 02:24:21PM -0400, PJ wrote: >> >>> I've managed by myself so far >>> >> >> Except, really, you haven't, because you apparently (unless I've missed >> something) > You did miss everything... if you were paying attention and not > emotionally hyped up (I just love provoking) you would have seen that I > fixed my problems with FreeBSD by myself, saved the crah, the files, the > OS (XP) and did make the right cd. And you like the rest of your > emotionally crippled buddies didn't think that there might be something > else in the bag of worms. > No one thought of other problems, like, maybe there's something awry in > the bios or drive configuration or the mb itself... > I thought of that and found the malady but not yet the cure... Indeed I > will find it and will save you the trouble of bothering to learn > anything... ciao, baby and hasta la vista. :-* >> still can't make a bootable .iso. You come in and ask what are >> charitably described as ignorant questions, immediately blaming everything >> and everyone but yourself. You seem to have narrowed it down to a hardware >> issue...except that that still doesn't seem to be it. So it looks more >> and more like it's coming down to PEBCAK. >> >> But, hey, if you want to throw a pity party because those riding the >> intertruck are being mean to you, go right ahead. Just don't expect >> anybody else to think you're holy because you've nailed yourself to >> a cross. >> >> > > > -- > HervC) Kempf: "Pour sauver la planC(te, sortez du capitalisme." > - > Phil Jourdan --- p...@ptahhotep.com >http://www.ptahhotep.com >http://www.chiccantine.com/andypantry.php
Re: boot disk ???
> >> I've managed by myself so far That's the wierdest idea of "by myself" I've ever seen. Go back to your cup holder.
Re: boot disk ???
Bret S. Lambert wrote: > On Thu, Aug 06, 2009 at 02:24:21PM -0400, PJ wrote: > >> I've managed by myself so far >> > > Except, really, you haven't, because you apparently (unless I've missed > something) You did miss everything... if you were paying attention and not emotionally hyped up (I just love provoking) you would have seen that I fixed my problems with FreeBSD by myself, saved the crah, the files, the OS (XP) and did make the right cd. And you like the rest of your emotionally crippled buddies didn't think that there might be something else in the bag of worms. No one thought of other problems, like, maybe there's something awry in the bios or drive configuration or the mb itself... I thought of that and found the malady but not yet the cure... Indeed I will find it and will save you the trouble of bothering to learn anything... ciao, baby and hasta la vista. :-* > still can't make a bootable .iso. You come in and ask what are > charitably described as ignorant questions, immediately blaming everything > and everyone but yourself. You seem to have narrowed it down to a hardware > issue...except that that still doesn't seem to be it. So it looks more > and more like it's coming down to PEBCAK. > > But, hey, if you want to throw a pity party because those riding the > intertruck are being mean to you, go right ahead. Just don't expect > anybody else to think you're holy because you've nailed yourself to > a cross. > > -- HervC) Kempf: "Pour sauver la planC(te, sortez du capitalisme." - Phil Jourdan --- p...@ptahhotep.com http://www.ptahhotep.com http://www.chiccantine.com/andypantry.php
Re: boot disk ???
On Thu, Aug 06, 2009 at 02:24:21PM -0400, PJ wrote: > I've managed by myself so far Except, really, you haven't, because you apparently (unless I've missed something) still can't make a bootable .iso. You come in and ask what are charitably described as ignorant questions, immediately blaming everything and everyone but yourself. You seem to have narrowed it down to a hardware issue...except that that still doesn't seem to be it. So it looks more and more like it's coming down to PEBCAK. But, hey, if you want to throw a pity party because those riding the intertruck are being mean to you, go right ahead. Just don't expect anybody else to think you're holy because you've nailed yourself to a cross.
Re: boot disk ???
You don't need help setting up openbsd. OSX will gladly have you. See they don't ever have bad hardware or incompatibilities. Perfect for person of your stature and abstract thinking. On Thu, Aug 06, 2009 at 02:20:37PM -0400, PJ wrote: > Chris Dukes wrote: > > On Thu, Aug 06, 2009 at 12:54:12PM -0400, PJ wrote: > > [ A lot of crap snipped ] > > > > Phil, > > You failed to answer the question. > > "What the hell is your end goal?" > > > > I have a simpler question for you. > > Are you too incompetent to answer a question like "What the hell is > > your end goal?" > > A) Yes > > B) No > > C) I don't know > > > > If you fail to answer "A", "B", or "C", it will lead us to believe > > that yes, you are that incompetent. > > If you answer "B" and fail to provide a 1-5 sentence answer to > > "What the hell is your end goal?" we will assume that you are > > that incompetent. > > > > Most people here have already decided that you are that incompetent. > > They are enjoying an opportunity to make fun of your incompetence. > > > > I'm giving you the brief benefit of the doubt that the trials and > > tribulations of your life lead you to describe the metaphorical > > alligators you are wrestling rather than the metaphorical matter you > > need to drain the swamp. > > > Maybe you could be more specific... What do you mean by end goal? > Perhaps my thinking is too abstract for you... > If you mean why am I asking for help? or if it's about setting up > OpenBSD, it's that I need an OS that is functional and reliable and > more-or-less user friendly. MS is out as it is non of the above (user > friendly, maybe if you're an idiot). FreeBSD used to be great but just > slid downhill... Linux is too spread-out and has too many threads... I > don't care for their confusing philosophies... I haven't looked at > NetBSD but have heard of it and I like what I heard about OpenBSD from Neal. > > Now what is the purpose of this interrogation? > > I made a mistake about the boot disk, and I'm sorry. I jumped to > conclusions. > But I really had no other options at the time... I still don't know what > is wrong in this rather unusual and extremely rare situation. I can only > assume that any dvd/cd writer that is current on the market and that I > have on other machines will work on this one. And, strangely, other > dvd/cd drives have worked without problem on this machine as well... so > why, is it this machine and this drive when all else functions well... > What else am I to look for? > > > -- > HervC) Kempf: "Pour sauver la planC(te, sortez du capitalisme." > - > Phil Jourdan --- p...@ptahhotep.com >http://www.ptahhotep.com >http://www.chiccantine.com/andypantry.php
Re: boot disk ???
Chris Dukes wrote: > On Thu, Aug 06, 2009 at 12:54:12PM -0400, PJ wrote: > [ A lot of crap snipped ] > > Phil, > You failed to answer the question. > "What the hell is your end goal?" > > I have a simpler question for you. > Are you too incompetent to answer a question like "What the hell is > your end goal?" > A) Yes > B) No > C) I don't know > > If you fail to answer "A", "B", or "C", it will lead us to believe > that yes, you are that incompetent. > If you answer "B" and fail to provide a 1-5 sentence answer to > "What the hell is your end goal?" we will assume that you are > that incompetent. > > Most people here have already decided that you are that incompetent. > They are enjoying an opportunity to make fun of your incompetence. > > I'm giving you the brief benefit of the doubt that the trials and > tribulations of your life lead you to describe the metaphorical > alligators you are wrestling rather than the metaphorical matter you > need to drain the swamp. > BTW, you will notice that no one on the list was bright enought to suggest checking the machine or the dvd/cd drive... I found that by my own little stupid, arrogant self. you were all so emotionally intent of saving your asses that you couldn't function with intellectual clarity... I could accept being called a fool and stupid and whatever you want but if you guys are so smart and clever, why didn't anyone think to suggest looking at alternate possibilitiies. Forget it... I've managed by myself so far, and wont have any trouble doing on my own... Sorry to have awakened anyone. -- HervC) Kempf: "Pour sauver la planC(te, sortez du capitalisme." - Phil Jourdan --- p...@ptahhotep.com http://www.ptahhotep.com http://www.chiccantine.com/andypantry.php
Re: boot disk ???
Chris Dukes wrote: > On Thu, Aug 06, 2009 at 12:54:12PM -0400, PJ wrote: > [ A lot of crap snipped ] > > Phil, > You failed to answer the question. > "What the hell is your end goal?" > > I have a simpler question for you. > Are you too incompetent to answer a question like "What the hell is > your end goal?" > A) Yes > B) No > C) I don't know > > If you fail to answer "A", "B", or "C", it will lead us to believe > that yes, you are that incompetent. > If you answer "B" and fail to provide a 1-5 sentence answer to > "What the hell is your end goal?" we will assume that you are > that incompetent. > > Most people here have already decided that you are that incompetent. > They are enjoying an opportunity to make fun of your incompetence. > > I'm giving you the brief benefit of the doubt that the trials and > tribulations of your life lead you to describe the metaphorical > alligators you are wrestling rather than the metaphorical matter you > need to drain the swamp. > Maybe you could be more specific... What do you mean by end goal? Perhaps my thinking is too abstract for you... If you mean why am I asking for help? or if it's about setting up OpenBSD, it's that I need an OS that is functional and reliable and more-or-less user friendly. MS is out as it is non of the above (user friendly, maybe if you're an idiot). FreeBSD used to be great but just slid downhill... Linux is too spread-out and has too many threads... I don't care for their confusing philosophies... I haven't looked at NetBSD but have heard of it and I like what I heard about OpenBSD from Neal. Now what is the purpose of this interrogation? I made a mistake about the boot disk, and I'm sorry. I jumped to conclusions. But I really had no other options at the time... I still don't know what is wrong in this rather unusual and extremely rare situation. I can only assume that any dvd/cd writer that is current on the market and that I have on other machines will work on this one. And, strangely, other dvd/cd drives have worked without problem on this machine as well... so why, is it this machine and this drive when all else functions well... What else am I to look for? -- HervC) Kempf: "Pour sauver la planC(te, sortez du capitalisme." - Phil Jourdan --- p...@ptahhotep.com http://www.ptahhotep.com http://www.chiccantine.com/andypantry.php
Re: boot disk ???
On Thu, Aug 06, 2009 at 12:54:12PM -0400, PJ wrote: [ A lot of crap snipped ] Phil, You failed to answer the question. "What the hell is your end goal?" I have a simpler question for you. Are you too incompetent to answer a question like "What the hell is your end goal?" A) Yes B) No C) I don't know If you fail to answer "A", "B", or "C", it will lead us to believe that yes, you are that incompetent. If you answer "B" and fail to provide a 1-5 sentence answer to "What the hell is your end goal?" we will assume that you are that incompetent. Most people here have already decided that you are that incompetent. They are enjoying an opportunity to make fun of your incompetence. I'm giving you the brief benefit of the doubt that the trials and tribulations of your life lead you to describe the metaphorical alligators you are wrestling rather than the metaphorical matter you need to drain the swamp. -- Chris Dukes
Re: boot disk ???
neal hogan wrote: >>> Temper, temper. >>> >>> >> If anyone had taken seriously all the problems and hormanure I have had >> to put up with for the last two they would have either gone out and done >> something stupid to someone else or to themselves... I have to vent my >> frustrations somewhere and whatever got in the way was a target... lucky >> I'm a peacful guy but I sure don't like some of the shit I've been >> putting up with, especially recently. I just can't believe this >> absurdly stupid lg dvd drive not booting... it writes the dvds allright, >> but why the hell doesn't it read or boot from them? I'll know tomorrow >> when I return the damned thing. >> >>> -Marcus Watts >>> > > Is that an apology for your obnoxious behavior (in your very first misc@ > thread, I might add)? > > We all have had trouble at one time or another and if you would have > opened up about what you've done and with what, you may have gotten more > help. You stil have yet to provide answers to many of the basic, > help-inducing questions that have been asked. I hope you provide more > info tomorrow (after you've rested and calmed down), so that we can get > our situation under control. > Indeed it is an apology... the only excuse I can possilby have is that there is so much misinformation or lack of information (I'm doing by best to not say 'stupidity') around that is just drives you nuts. How can you get clear information about such essential things as the configuration options in the bios? How can you find out what option you should use with what hardware? And why would you use P-ATA or S-ATA or both and how does one setting affect either? And then, how does Legacy or Native affect things if they are P-ATA of S-ATA? And why is the setting for the dvd/cd drive different if it is AUTO or CD-ROM or ARMD ... and how does the 32 Bit Transfer Mode affect the drive and what is ARMD anyway? It's not explained in the manual... How in hell can you be master of your own computer if you can't get the information to manage it? I just posted an answer to Chris Dukes about my adventure... more detail there. Anyway, I still can't boot from the drive and it's not the drive or the disk... and I can't understand if, how or why the bios may be involved in this... the drive shows up correctly, it starts to read the disk but just does not see whatever it is looking for... it asks to inset a bootable disk... so where does this lead us? I know the drive works on other machines as I had it verified at the store... and sure enough... no problem... what have I got here, the doomsday machine from hell... must be 2 of them as the other machine is identical except for cpu and minor differences... but it also has the same LG: GH22NP20 dvd/cd drive (that one writes very fast to disk but it doesn't read--that is, when loaded, the disk is seen in filemanager but when one tries to access it, it is not found!) Figure that out! Oh, well, just another day blown...I think I'm ready to go back to Mars. PJ -- HervC) Kempf: "Pour sauver la planC(te, sortez du capitalisme." - Phil Jourdan --- p...@ptahhotep.com http://www.ptahhotep.com http://www.chiccantine.com/andypantry.php
O Agosto não para...
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Re: boot disk ???
Chris Dukes wrote: > Phil, > After looking through your belligerence here and through > http://marc.info/?a=11841782285&r=1&w=2 > > I have one question, what the hell is your end goal? > > As far as I can determine, getting OpenBSD or FreeBSD to run > is only a perceived line item to that goal. Ditto for learning PHP. > > My current belief if that you're attempting to kludge together > a platform for web development. > However, you'd probably be better off seeing if what you're trying > to develop can be implemented on an existing web content management > system, preferably one deployed and maintained by the hosting provider. > > Oh, and you might want to strike ptahhotep.com from your .sig, you let > it expire back in June. Hi Chris, Thanks for replying and for your concern. Indeed, the website expired through negligence... actually it was reinstated a day or so after, once I learned it had happened... it's my daughter's site and I didn't pay much attention to it. There was some confusion with the reinstate and now I'm being raped for $100 when a renew normally costs $20 with these greedy people at domainprocessor. I use a very reasonalbe Canadian registrar who only charges something like $6 or $7. I have been using my web host for many years and know exactly what he is using and therefore I am using the very programs that work on his installation; have been doing that for some years. As for learning PHP & all that is associated is a never-ending process. Unfortunately FreeBSD became a nuisance and a stumblilng block. I found that their philosophy or way of doing things has been somewhat snobbish and this confusing for end users. I must point out that I am not the only one to have had problems with them (especially the latest 7.2 version) as I found in several replies to my inquiries on their mailing list. There are issues with the upgrading and updating methods which are not clear as to what should be used with what or with what not (if that is clear); there is portsnap, cvsup, porupgrade, portmaster & numerous tools dealing with the ports/packages and they tend to step on each others toes. The end of the line was some problem with installing or reinstallling some xcb related program and when I thereafter started up Xwindows all hell brok out... the screen went black and there was no way to gracefully shut down except by stopping with the start button on the machine. Rebooting was impossible either to FreeBSD or XP. I then took the computer apart, did the same with the server which was already down, reconfigured everything, recovered the files that were important (php and mysql data files) and prepared to start installing OpenBSD. Well, I suddenly found myself with an impossible situation: impossible to boot from the server on which I had just installed a brand new dvd/cd drive. I regrettably thought that the problem was with the boot disk as I had never experienced this kind of problem before... ever in some 15yrs of tinkering with computers. I have still not resolved the problem as I have been able to determine that both the boot disk and the drive are fine and work on other machines. But try what I may, I am unable to get the drive to function on boot-up. I have 2 motherboards MSI-6758 875P NEO-FISR, one 3ghz & the other, server 2.4ghz. The same LG: GH22NP20 drive kind of hobbles on the desktop (writes ok, but does not read - a bit weird, wouldn't you say?) and the server wont boot from the drive no matter what settings I try. The desktop has a Sony dvd/cd writer/player and it fnctions without any problem whatsoever... makes no sense to me... I am now in contact with MSI & hope they will have some insight... This is unbelievably frustrating that things are just getting more and more screwed up. So, there you have the long story... hope somebody can benefit from it; I sure haven't. :'( -- HervC) Kempf: "Pour sauver la planC(te, sortez du capitalisme." - Phil Jourdan --- p...@ptahhotep.com http://www.ptahhotep.com http://www.chiccantine.com/andypantry.php
Re: opensmtpd question
On Wed, Aug 05, 2009 at 09:51:10PM +0200, Peter J. Philipp wrote: > I've switched from postfix to opensmtpd. I have a small question. How do > I alias the outgoing domain to the From: address? > > Something along the lines of postfix's: > > myorigin = $mydomain > > Pretend the From is "r...@caliban.solarscale.de" (caliban doesn't exist, but > it's the hostname of this host behind the NAT firewall) and I want it to be > only "r...@solarscale.de" is there a way to do that? > > This is the current config I have now: > > ### > hostname caliban.solarscale.de > > listen on localhost > accept for local deliver to mbox > accept for all relay via 2001:xxx:::xx port 9025 > ### > > Many thanks, > > -peter > Hi peter, Why don't you just set hostname to solarscale.de ? Gilles
cvs rdiff error
Hi, (posting again, it seems it wasn't last time I tried) I'm trying to use cvs rdiff command in some files but I'm getting error: As an example: $ pwd /usr/src/sys/arch/hppa/hppa $ sudo cvs -danon...@anoncvs3.usa.openbsd.org:/cvs rdiff -u -t intr.c cvs [server aborted]: cvs_server_rdiff: Bad address cvs [rdiff aborted]: end of file from server (consult above messages if any) My ~/.ssh/config is configured as explained in FAQ: Host anoncvs3.usa.openbsd.org Compression no Port 2022 This server supports connection on port 2022. Also tried different servers. No firewalls. Any hints? Thank you. -- Daniel Bolgheroni FEI - Faculdade de Engenharia Industrial http://www.dbolgheroni.eng.br/mykey ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) against HTML e-mail X / \
Re: Delete packages with dependencies
> find /var/db/pkg -name \+CONTENTS -exec grep manual-installation {} /dev/null
> \;
Then the information does exist. This is good. The only thing missing
now is the script that use this information for dependencies deletion.
I'll see what I can do.
Luis.
Re: How to activate extensions after compiling php5 core and extensions? No instructions!
Aaaron, I suppose that according to the Makefile for the extensions all of them should be enabled. I also suppose that the correct extension_dir path for the modules to be placed would be: /var/www/lib/php/modules However, this isnt the case... where do I get the modules from to activate them in the php.ini ? Thanks Andres On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 11:06 PM, Bryan wrote: > On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 20:25, Andres Salazar wrote: >> Hello, >> >> OpenBSD 4.5 stable >> >> I have done the following: >> >> cd /usr/ports/www/php5/core; make; make install; >> cd /usr/ports/www/php5/extensions; make; make intall; >> >> That according to pkg_info installed: >> >> php5-core-5.2.10 B B server-side HTML-embedded scripting language >> php5-extensions-5.2.10 informational package about PHP5 extensions >> >> The instructions after finishing the extensions compiling said: >> >> --- php5-extensions-5.2.10 --- >> This is a place-holder package to inform you that the PHP port is >> now split into small sub-packages, designed to allow you to install >> modules independently of the main PHP engine. >> >> For example, to install the IMAP module, just pkg_add the >> php5-imap-5.2.10.tgz package and activate it using the >> 'phpxs' command. >> >> >> I tried doing pkg_add php5-mysql-5.2.10.tar however that just tries to >> install it from the packages (and off course it wont becuase the >> packages offers 5.2.8)... and then the phpxs command doesnt exist. >> >> What am I missing to actually finish the install of all the php5 > extensions? >> > I believe the instructions are in the "php-core" package. Back in the > day, I would issue "phpxs" and the extension name to enable it... but > I may be wrong... > > Regards, > Bryan
Re: Delete packages with dependencies
On Thu, Aug 06, 2009 at 09:04:53AM -0400, Luis Useche wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 10:23 PM, Jacob Meuser
> wrote:
> > some further thoughts ...
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 06, 2009 at 01:32:07AM +, Jacob Meuser wrote:
> >> On Wed, Aug 05, 2009 at 06:58:48PM -0400, Luis Useche wrote:
> >> > On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 3:59 PM, Stephen Takacs wrote:
> >> > > Luis Useche wrote:
> >> > >> It seems like an additional information should be added to the
> package
> >> > >> database. A bit indicating if the package was installed manually by
> >> > >> the user (admin?) or not.
> >
> > this presumably already happens. from pkg_add(1):
> >
> > -a Automated pakages installations; do not record packages as in-
> > stalled manually.
>
> This is a good finding. I didn't realize that was there.
>
> > it might be useful if:
> >
> > 1) pkg_info could display what packages were manually installed
> > (pkg_info -m ?)
> > 2) `pkg_add foo-1.0' when foo-1.0 is already installed as a dependency
> > of some other package, would mark foo-1.0 as manually installed
> > 3) pkg_info could display packages that aren't required by any other
> > packages and aren't manually installed (pkg_info -t -m ?)
> >
> > I guess I should now go look at the sources and see what exactly
> > `pkg_add -a' does ...
>
> I took a quick look to the sources and -a seems to do nothing (as well
> as -q, Am I missing something?). I don't know if you find something
> different. (I am looking the last version from cvsview)
find /var/db/pkg -name \+CONTENTS -exec grep manual-installation {} /dev/null \;
> >> > >> Then, the package can only be deleted if the
> >> > >> the user explicitly say so as oppose to "automatic deletion as
> >> > >> dependency".
> >
> > *maybe* an option for pkg_delete to stop it from deleting packages
> > that are marked as manually installed would be useful, but it shouldn't
> > be default behaviour, imo.
>
> That is fine as long as the option exists, I guess.
>
> Luis.
>
--
jake...@sdf.lonestar.org
SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org
/etc/pf.os typo
hi there, # Windows TCP/IP stack is a mess. For most recent XP, 2000 and # even 98, the pathlevel, not the actual OS version, is more ^ -f -- bad is never good until worse happens.
Re: Delete packages with dependencies
On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 10:23 PM, Jacob Meuser wrote: > some further thoughts ... > > On Thu, Aug 06, 2009 at 01:32:07AM +, Jacob Meuser wrote: >> On Wed, Aug 05, 2009 at 06:58:48PM -0400, Luis Useche wrote: >> > On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 3:59 PM, Stephen Takacs wrote: >> > > Luis Useche wrote: >> > >> It seems like an additional information should be added to the package >> > >> database. A bit indicating if the package was installed manually by >> > >> the user (admin?) or not. > > this presumably already happens. from pkg_add(1): > > -a Automated pakages installations; do not record packages as in- > stalled manually. This is a good finding. I didn't realize that was there. > it might be useful if: > > 1) pkg_info could display what packages were manually installed > (pkg_info -m ?) > 2) `pkg_add foo-1.0' when foo-1.0 is already installed as a dependency > of some other package, would mark foo-1.0 as manually installed > 3) pkg_info could display packages that aren't required by any other > packages and aren't manually installed (pkg_info -t -m ?) > > I guess I should now go look at the sources and see what exactly > `pkg_add -a' does ... I took a quick look to the sources and -a seems to do nothing (as well as -q, Am I missing something?). I don't know if you find something different. (I am looking the last version from cvsview) >> > >> Then, the package can only be deleted if the >> > >> the user explicitly say so as oppose to "automatic deletion as >> > >> dependency". > > *maybe* an option for pkg_delete to stop it from deleting packages > that are marked as manually installed would be useful, but it shouldn't > be default behaviour, imo. That is fine as long as the option exists, I guess. Luis.
Re: How to activate extensions after compiling php5 core and extensions? No instructions!
http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/ports/www/php5/core/Makefile?only_with_tag=OPENBSD_4_5 patrick is right, look in /usr/ports/packages (you can set PKG_PATH to point there if you like).. On 2009-08-06, Edho P Arief wrote: > On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 10:25 AM, Andres Salazar wrote: >> Hello, >> >> OpenBSD 4.5 stable >> >> I have done the following: >> >> cd /usr/ports/www/php5/core; make; make install; >> cd /usr/ports/www/php5/extensions; make; make intall; >> >> That according to pkg_info installed: >> >> php5-core-5.2.10 B B server-side HTML-embedded scripting language >> php5-extensions-5.2.10 informational package about PHP5 extensions >> >> The instructions after finishing the extensions compiling said: >> >> --- php5-extensions-5.2.10 --- >> This is a place-holder package to inform you that the PHP port is >> now split into small sub-packages, designed to allow you to install >> modules independently of the main PHP engine. >> >> For example, to install the IMAP module, just pkg_add the >> php5-imap-5.2.10.tgz package and activate it using the >> 'phpxs' command. >> >> >> I tried doing pkg_add php5-mysql-5.2.10.tar however that just tries to >> install it from the packages (and off course it wont becuase the >> packages offers 5.2.8)... and then the phpxs command doesnt exist. >> >> What am I missing to actually finish the install of all the php5 > extensions? >> >> Thanks >> >> Andres >> >> > > http://openbsd.org/faq/faq15.html#NoFun
Re: boot disk ???
Phil, After looking through your belligerence here and through http://marc.info/?a=11841782285&r=1&w=2 I have one question, what the hell is your end goal? As far as I can determine, getting OpenBSD or FreeBSD to run is only a perceived line item to that goal. Ditto for learning PHP. My current belief if that you're attempting to kludge together a platform for web development. However, you'd probably be better off seeing if what you're trying to develop can be implemented on an existing web content management system, preferably one deployed and maintained by the hosting provider. Oh, and you might want to strike ptahhotep.com from your .sig, you let it expire back in June. -- Chris Dukes
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Re: How to activate extensions after compiling php5 core and extensions? No instructions!
On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 8:25 PM, Andres Salazar wrote: > Hello, > > OpenBSD 4.5 stable > > I have done the following: > > cd /usr/ports/www/php5/core; make; make install; > cd /usr/ports/www/php5/extensions; make; make intall; > > That according to pkg_info installed: > > php5-core-5.2.10server-side HTML-embedded scripting language > php5-extensions-5.2.10 informational package about PHP5 extensions > > The instructions after finishing the extensions compiling said: > > --- php5-extensions-5.2.10 --- > This is a place-holder package to inform you that the PHP port is > now split into small sub-packages, designed to allow you to install > modules independently of the main PHP engine. > > For example, to install the IMAP module, just pkg_add the > php5-imap-5.2.10.tgz package and activate it using the > 'phpxs' command. > > > I tried doing pkg_add php5-mysql-5.2.10.tar however that just tries to > install it from the packages (and off course it wont becuase the > packages offers 5.2.8)... and then the phpxs command doesnt exist. > > What am I missing to actually finish the install of all the php5 extensions? maybe you have your answer by now, but if you don't, this *may* help. If you have built the port on your machine, look in: /usr/ports/packages/`arch -s`/all/ Do you see packages for the php5 extensions? If you do, then pkg_add them (use full path the each package file), or at least those you are interested in. You'll see further instructions on how to enable each extension. HTH, --patrick
Re: wscons don't generate keyboard sequences as defined in terminfo db for vt220 [was: Re: F1-F10, 'HOME', 'END' keys.]
On Wed, Aug 05, 2009 at 09:05:36PM +, 4625 wrote: > On Wed, 5 Aug 2009, Hugo Villeneuve wrote: You can run "wsconsctl keyboard.map" to check if those changes relates to your keyboard. > > >On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 08:49:15PM +, 4625 wrote: > >>How to achieve the adequate behaviour on pressing keys F1-F10 in GoldED+ > >>(message editor); 'HOME' - return to begin of line, 'END' - end of line > >>in bash prompt and some text/message editors? > >> > >>I will explain the problem. > >> > >>Golded+: F1-F5 keys should offer a lot of different functions (help, > >>save, reply, etc...), but offer only 'Quit' actually. Message index > >>should be appear on key F9, but it will happen on key F10 actually. On > >>key F5 should be menu 'Answer In Area'. Such menu on F6 actually. The > >>same problems in Midnight Commander. 'Alt-S', 'Alt-P', 'Alt-I', etc - > >>should set message attributes, but display cyrillic letter actually. > >> > >>'HOME' and 'END' keys will display the '~' almost everywhere in OpenBSD > >>console. Add to /etc/wsconsctl.conf and reboot (quick dirty patch): # To make wscons = to vt220 terminfo db for pc-xt keyboard on i386 keyboard.map+="keycode 59 = Cmd_Screen0 KP_F1" keyboard.map+="keycode 60 = Cmd_Screen1 KP_F2" keyboard.map+="keycode 61 = Cmd_Screen2 KP_F3" keyboard.map+="keycode 62 = Cmd_Screen3 KP_F4" keyboard.map+="keycode 63 = Cmd_Screen4 F6" keyboard.map+="keycode 64 = Cmd_Screen5 F7" keyboard.map+="keycode 65 = Cmd_Screen6 F8" keyboard.map+="keycode 66 = Cmd_Screen7 F9" keyboard.map+="keycode 67 = Cmd_Screen8 F10" keyboard.map+="keycode 68 = Cmd_Screen9 F16" keyboard.map+="keycode 71 = Find KP_7" keyboard.map+="keycode 79 = Select KP_1" keyboard.map+="keycode 199 = Find" keyboard.map+="keycode 207 = Select" I got no idea if keycode are consistant across all type of keyboard on i386. This was made for my AT keyboard on my Pentium 200. It's not the same keycodes on mac68k's adb and macppc's usb keyboards. You can run "wsconsctl keyboard.map" to check if those changes relates to your keyboard.
Re: boot disk ???
On Wed, 05 Aug 2009 22:18 -0400, "STeve Andre'" wrote: > On Wednesday 05 August 2009 20:40:50 Theo de Raadt wrote: > > > The OpenBSD community is a very fun and helpful bunch. But we're not > > > good at suffering fools or assholes. > > > > Oh come now... we are very good at making fools and assholes suffer. > > What I want to know is why we haven't heard from Grumpy about this... Nick Holland has already responded to this thread. :)
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