Re: New mod_perl Logo
mod_perl is a lousy name. It is causing me a problem. My potential customers have heard of Perl and Apache, MySql and Postgres, but they dot like the idea of perl modifying the Apache processing. It strikes them as tinkering round with the internals and liable to cause problems 'when we upgrade' or 'move to another platform'. It also does not look good on a resume when you are sending it to someone who has never heard of it. You are never quite sure whether to Wordcap it or not. Give it some other marketting name, even if it keeps its original name in places like this. Anything will do, WebBlast, Insiouxiance, Perlandra, Exsight, Insite, HowtoSite - I really do not mind. Regards - Paul Cotter
Re: New mod_perl Logo
On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Paul Cotter wrote: Give it some other marketting name, even if it keeps its original name in places like this. didn't you people read perrin's message? do you think this is the first time this topic has been discussed? do you think it's gonna change doug's mind /this/ time? if you can't sell your customers and bosses on mod_perl because of its technological appropriateness, the name of the software is the least of your problems.
Re: New mod_perl Logo
Jay Lawrence wrote: I looked at some of the candidates at http://wypug.digital-word.com/mod_perl/ must confess I am partial to http://wypug.digital-word.com/mod_perl/logos/louise_bramald_1.jpg so far Thinking camels for Perl and feathers for Apache putting them together all I could see is flying camels - is that too close to flaming logos? That's my 0.02CAD which is substantially less than 0.02USD... ;-) J I really don't want to see this topic going out of control, but I had to add something here: didn't we have a discussion about this months ago? I seem to remember an idea of a camel with a headband with the Apache feather... I'm sure that's not my own idea. Issac
Re: New mod_perl Logo
How could another name look nice on your resume if they don't know what it is ? Why don't you just nickname mod_perl as something else and then put THAT name on your resume if you are so concerned about naming. At 09:36 PM 1/30/2002, Paul Cotter wrote: mod_perl is a lousy name. It is causing me a problem. My potential customers have heard of Perl and Apache, MySql and Postgres, but they dot like the idea of perl modifying the Apache processing. It strikes them as tinkering round with the internals and liable to cause problems 'when we upgrade' or 'move to another platform'. It also does not look good on a resume when you are sending it to someone who has never heard of it. You are never quite sure whether to Wordcap it or not. Give it some other marketting name, even if it keeps its original name in places like this. Anything will do, WebBlast, Insiouxiance, Perlandra, Exsight, Insite, HowtoSite - I really do not mind. Regards - Paul Cotter __ Gunther Birznieks ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) eXtropia - The Open Web Technology Company http://www.eXtropia.com/
Re: New mod_perl Logo
At 04:50 PM 1/31/2002, brian moseley wrote: On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Paul Cotter wrote: Give it some other marketting name, even if it keeps its original name in places like this. didn't you people read perrin's message? do you think this is the first time this topic has been discussed? do you think it's gonna change doug's mind /this/ time? if you can't sell your customers and bosses on mod_perl because of its technological appropriateness, the name of the software is the least of your problems. I was thinking if we renamed mod_perl as George Bush it would do quite well in the political polls. Might even be elected for president. And then we'd rule the country!!
Re: New mod_perl Logo
Paul How about attaching a copy of _the_ mod_perl book each time you send out your resume. The recipients should be impressed and thus realize it's a Real Program, and I'm sure the authors would consider a bulk discount :-). (Having worked only 2 out of the last 8 months I do appreciate your position). Cheers Ron Savage [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://savage.net.au/index.html - Original Message - From: Paul Cotter [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 12:36 AM Subject: Re: New mod_perl Logo mod_perl is a lousy name. It is causing me a problem. My potential customers have heard of Perl and
Re: New mod_perl Logo
Ged Haywood [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi there, On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Chris Thompson wrote: mod_perl is a lousy name. [snip] mod_perl needs a name. Something marketable, something catchy. How about BigFoot? Sasquatch. -- Dave Hodgkinson, Wizard for Hire http://www.davehodgkinson.com Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star http://www.deep-purple.com Interim Technical Director, Web Architecture Consultant for hire
Re: New mod_perl Logo
Hi all, On Tue, 29 Jan 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How about BigFoot? Probably not the best for a server application. Might make one think of the footprint involved ... That was one of my points. :) There will be fame although possibly not fortune for the first person to publish the other. 73, Ged.
Re: New mod_perl Logo
Hi Ron, On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Ron Savage wrote: In a message dated 30-Jan-02 12:50:50 AM GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: How about BigFoot? All these American-style names are verging on the racist. This is world-wide code, not s/$Expletive// American-wide code. But I'm an Englishman and I live in France! O'course we could talk about the French... :) 73, Ged.
RE: New mod_perl name was [Re: New mod_perl Logo]
I like Monkey Butter v1.0.. On a serious note, I work in a predominately MS shop - of 25 developers me and one other are the only Perl developers with 3 more doing some combination of Java,C++, and C. I would suggest that anyone looking to make a case for 'Perl in the Enterprise' should look at the P5EE project ( http://p5ee.perl.org). From that site - The mission of the P5EE initiative is to promote the development, deployment, and acceptance of Enterprise Systems written in Perl. It has been my experience that results count, unless you are dealing with pointy-headed bosses. If that is the case, you application should spit gold bricks out of the floppy drive and it wouldn't matter. If you're looking for a name to justify Perl in Enterprise then I think the P5EE project and name is as good as any. Joe -Original Message- From: ___cliff rayman___ [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 7:20 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: New mod_perl name was [Re: New mod_perl Logo] how about Everest? Niagara? Multiphase? Slipstream? DigiServer? Pointillion? Web Mammoth? SharpWeb? Web Enterprise? EnterWeb? Ged Haywood wrote: Hi there, On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Chris Thompson wrote: mod_perl is a lousy name. [snip] mod_perl needs a name. Something marketable, something catchy. How about BigFoot? 73, Ged. -- ___cliff [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.genwax.com/
[OT] Re: New mod_perl Logo
All right -- I know I should just silently delete this, and let it go, but it's like a bad traffic accident, I just have to sneak a look. In exactly what way do you connote American-style out of any of those names? The fact that Big Foot is a mythical being often associated with the US northwest? (I think the Canadians talk about Big Foot too...) And racist?? Come on, that's certainly a reach... When in doubt, accuse others of being provincial, and act damn indignant. Curse their nationality too... Steve Reppucci On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Ron Savage wrote: Jeezus you guys. All these American-style names are verging on the racist. This is world-wide code, not f---ing American-wide code. Cheers Ron Savage [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://savage.net.au/index.html - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 12:48 PM Subject: Re: New mod_perl Logo In a message dated 30-Jan-02 12:50:50 AM GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: How about BigFoot? Probably not the best for a server application. Might make one think of the footprint involved ... and isn't one of the major reasons to moving to mod_perl to reduce the overhead and footprint of the server? Now Yetti no conotation there. Or Swamp Beast, Sasquatch, or possibly even the local favorite Nessie (I'd love to see Ora get a picture of her on the next book!) -Chris -- Steve Reppucci [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Logical Choice Software http://logsoft.com/ | =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- My God! What have I done? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
RE: [OT] Re: New mod_perl Logo
The last time I looked the Yeti is Himalayan and Nessie is from Scotland. -Original Message- From: Stephen Reppucci [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 9:16 AM To: Ron Savage Cc: mod_perl Subject: [OT] Re: New mod_perl Logo All right -- I know I should just silently delete this, and let it go, but it's like a bad traffic accident, I just have to sneak a look. In exactly what way do you connote American-style out of any of those names? The fact that Big Foot is a mythical being often associated with the US northwest? (I think the Canadians talk about Big Foot too...) And racist?? Come on, that's certainly a reach... When in doubt, accuse others of being provincial, and act damn indignant. Curse their nationality too... Steve Reppucci On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Ron Savage wrote: Jeezus you guys. All these American-style names are verging on the racist. This is world-wide code, not f---ing American-wide code. Cheers Ron Savage [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://savage.net.au/index.html - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 12:48 PM Subject: Re: New mod_perl Logo In a message dated 30-Jan-02 12:50:50 AM GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: How about BigFoot? Probably not the best for a server application. Might make one think of the footprint involved ... and isn't one of the major reasons to moving to mod_perl to reduce the overhead and footprint of the server? Now Yetti no conotation there. Or Swamp Beast, Sasquatch, or possibly even the local favorite Nessie (I'd love to see Ora get a picture of her on the next book!) -Chris -- Steve Reppucci [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Logical Choice Software http://logsoft.com/ | =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- My God! What have I done? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Fw: [OT] Re: New mod_perl Logo
I'm going to have a spew here. I am sick of all the Anti-US bashing. You sent hundreds of thousands of your boys to help save Europe, Australia, Russia, Asia from slavery. We will never forget that. When any country is in trouble it dials 1. If in return we get to drink Starbucks and eat Burger King vegi-burgers or McDonalds Salads so be it, it's a fair trade. End of rant. Back to geek stuff. Rod === The sender has never accepted any funding from Enron. Any suggestion to that effect will be met with legal action. - Original Message - From: Stephen Reppucci [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Ron Savage [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: mod_perl [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 2:15 AM Subject: [OT] Re: New mod_perl Logo All right -- I know I should just silently delete this, and let it go, but it's like a bad traffic accident, I just have to sneak a look. In exactly what way do you connote American-style out of any of those names? The fact that Big Foot is a mythical being often associated with the US northwest? (I think the Canadians talk about Big Foot too...) And racist?? Come on, that's certainly a reach... When in doubt, accuse others of being provincial, and act damn indignant. Curse their nationality too... Steve Reppucci On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Ron Savage wrote: Jeezus you guys. All these American-style names are verging on the racist. This is world-wide code, not f---ing American-wide code. Cheers Ron Savage [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://savage.net.au/index.html - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 12:48 PM Subject: Re: New mod_perl Logo In a message dated 30-Jan-02 12:50:50 AM GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: How about BigFoot? Probably not the best for a server application. Might make one think of the footprint involved ... and isn't one of the major reasons to moving to mod_perl to reduce the overhead and footprint of the server? Now Yetti no conotation there. Or Swamp Beast, Sasquatch, or possibly even the local favorite Nessie (I'd love to see Ora get a picture of her on the next book!) -Chris -- Steve Reppucci [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Logical Choice Software http://logsoft.com/ | =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- My God! What have I done? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
[OT] Re: New mod_perl Logo
On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Ron Savage wrote: All these American-style names are verging on the racist. People should instead take into consideration the alternative suggestions you provided...oh wait, nevermind. --Alex
[OT] Re: New mod_perl name was [Re: New mod_perl Logo]
___cliff rayman___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: how about Everest? Niagara? Multiphase? Slipstream? DigiServer? Pointillion? Web Mammoth? SharpWeb? Web Enterprise? EnterWeb? % perl -wlne 'print if delmopr eq join , sort /./g' dictionary premold % Actually I just wish we could standardize on one of either mod_perl or modperl, so I can stop bouncing emails off to the wrong list :) -- Joe Schaefer
Re: New mod_perl Logo
In a message dated 30-Jan-02 6:08:29 AM GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: All these American-style names are verging on the racist. This is world-wide code, not f---ing American-wide code. Don't let the crappy AOL account fool you. Nessie is about 3 hours from here. The Yetti I believe is indiginous to Asia isn't it? And as for australian beasties ... I just couldn't think of any off the top of my head ... . -Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New mod_perl Logo
At 4:54 PM -0500 1/30/02, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 30-Jan-02 6:08:29 AM GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: All these American-style names are verging on the racist. This is world-wide code, not f---ing American-wide code. Don't let the crappy AOL account fool you. Nessie is about 3 hours from here. The Yetti I believe is indiginous to Asia isn't it? And as for australian beasties ... I just couldn't think of any off the top of my head ... . Uhh... Taz? Or Tazmanian Devil. Roos? KangarooSphere v5.6.0... How about we just call it AmericanHatingAussie... ;-) Rob -Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- When I used a Mac, they laughed because I had no command prompt. When I used Linux, they laughed because I had no GUI.
[OT] RE: New mod_perl Logo
Uhh... the platypus, the wombat, the tazmanian devil, and the emu. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 1:54 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: New mod_perl Logo In a message dated 30-Jan-02 6:08:29 AM GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: All these American-style names are verging on the racist. This is world-wide code, not f---ing American-wide code. Don't let the crappy AOL account fool you. Nessie is about 3 hours from here. The Yetti I believe is indiginous to Asia isn't it? And as for australian beasties ... I just couldn't think of any off the top of my head ... . -Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] RE: New mod_perl Logo
* Rob Bloodgood ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [31 Jan 2002 09:32]: Uhh... the platypus, the wombat, the tazmanian devil, and the emu. That's 'Tasmanian'. And they're wonderfully cute and vicious brutes. cheers, -- iain. http://eh.org/~koschei/
RE: New mod_perl Logo
I looked at some of the candidates at http://wypug.digital-word.com/mod_perl/ must confess I am partial to http://wypug.digital-word.com/mod_perl/logos/louise_bramald_1.jpg so far Thinking camels for Perl and feathers for Apache putting them together all I could see is flying camels - is that too close to flaming logos? That's my 0.02CAD which is substantially less than 0.02USD... ;-) J
Re: New mod_perl Logo
On Tuesday 29 January 2002 19:10, Markus Wichitill wrote: exisiting icons of mod_perl (the camel, Apache feather, eagle, etc), or Please let's not choose one with an ORA animal as the official logo. It's very annoying having to include those stupid copyright notices just because the logo is used on a page. Note that that makes the only forbidden animal a white-tailed eagle I guess. Any other animal should be ok. -- ___ Robin Berjon [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- CTO k n o w s c a p e : // venture knowledge agency www.knowscape.com --- Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.
RE: New mod_perl Logo
:: Please let's not choose one with an ORA animal as the :: official logo. It's very annoying having to include those :: stupid copyright notices just because the logo is used on a page. The final logo will be chosen by majority vote. :: And since I've now posted to the list anyway, I can as well :: link my powered-by-button entry, which is partly based on a :: previous mod_perl site redesign that was never used in the :: end (sorry, forgot by whom it was): :: http://www.mawic.de/modperl.gif I have added your button to the gallery, thank you Markus. Jonathan M. Hollin - WYPUG Co-ordinator West Yorkshire Perl User Group http://wypug.pm.org/
Re: New mod_perl Logo
Note that that makes the only forbidden animal a white-tailed eagle I guess. Any other animal should be ok. The context is Apache and Perl, so wouldn't that include eagle, camel, llama and whatever other book animals I've missed?
Re: New mod_perl Logo
exisiting icons of mod_perl (the camel, Apache feather, eagle, etc), or Please let's not choose one with an ORA animal as the official logo. It's Well, seeing as this would be the new version of mod_perl, I could see it being worth ORA's while to forgo their little copyright nonsense. I'm sure, if a really nice design comes up with the mod_perl eagle, that ORA wouldn't mind bending their copyright for us. After all, its extra publicity for them, right? -man
Re: New mod_perl Logo
On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Michael A Nachbaur wrote:
Well, seeing as this would be the new version of mod_perl, I could see it
being worth ORA's while to forgo their little copyright nonsense. I'm sure,
if a really nice design comes up with the mod_perl eagle, that ORA wouldn't
mind bending their copyright for us. After all, its extra publicity for
them, right?
That's not how trademarks work. ORA have to complain about every use of
a trademarked form that comes to their attention, otherwise the trademark
lapses.
If their trademark lapses, then someone else can produce Eagle books.
To borrow the really horrible slashdot phrase though, I am not a lawyer
Later.
Mark
--
s'' Mark Fowler London.pm Bath.pm
http://www.twoshortplanks.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
';use Term'Cap;$t=Tgetent Term'Cap{};print$t-Tputs(cl);for$w(split/ +/
){for(0..30){$|=print$t-Tgoto(cm,$_,$y). $w;select$k,$k,$k,.03}$y+=2}
Re: New mod_perl Logo
On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Jonathan M. Hollin wrote: Ideas for logos, banners, powered by-type buttons are all welcome. Well, I'd like to just throw one idea into the mix. It's something that's bugged me for a long time, no better time than the present. mod_perl is a lousy name. There, I've said it. For any number of reasons, perl does now and will always face an uphill struggle in any Enterprise application. For example, at my place of employment, we just went through a rather arduous task that I fought against and lost. We had a production site that handled a decent amount of traffic. Apache, mod_perl, Linux and MySQL. It ran and ran with almost no intervention. The management team of the company that bought us a year ago had been trying to force a change in the product by throwing up various arguments, which were always false. (MySQL doesnt support Transaction, Yes it does. But they arent atomic., Yes they are. Well, you can't roll them back., Yes you can.) In the end, I lost. From October to mid January they set about taking our fully functional product and replatforming it to Win2k/IIS/ASP+VB/MSSQL. The final reason? Responsible enterprises do not use perl. mod_perl needs a name. Something marketable, something catchy. The java folks learned that a long time ago. Their systems are called Tomcat/Jakarta and Cocoon and Resin. THAT, in my opinion, is what should happen for mod_perl 2.0. It should be Adirondack or Orwell or any other generic, innocuous name. Even MonkeyButter v1.0 is probably a better deal than mod_perl. As for logos, Avoiding Camels or Eagles is a requirement. I don't blame ORA for requiring the trademark notices, the twisted concepts of US trademark law REQUIRE them to do that. The first time they didnt, they could lose their trademark. But we should have a mascot that makes sense and is OURS. Linux has the penguin, OpenBSD has the blowfish, the other BSD's have the devil. Those images are clearly associated with those products, and can be used WITHOUT corporate approval. -- ___ Chris Thompson
Re: New mod_perl Logo
I could not agree more. I can not compute how much of my time would have been saved over the last few years had I been able to say something like 'We are using the Orwellian AppSphere 2002 running on Apache' to VC's and management rather then 'Mod Perl'. Perception counts I am affectionate towards the mod_perl name after so many years but its really not optimal. John- On Tuesday, January 29, 2002, at 04:29 PM, Chris Thompson wrote: On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Jonathan M. Hollin wrote: Ideas for logos, banners, powered by-type buttons are all welcome. Well, I'd like to just throw one idea into the mix. It's something that's bugged me for a long time, no better time than the present. mod_perl is a lousy name. There, I've said it. For any number of reasons, perl does now and will always face an uphill struggle in any Enterprise application.
Re: New mod_perl Logo
Hi ct ! On Wednesday 30 January 2002 01:29, Chris Thompson wrote: Well, I'd like to just throw one idea into the mix. It's something that's bugged me for a long time, no better time than the present. mod_perl is a lousy name. There, I've said it. This discussion has occured already. The conclusion was simple: the name won't change. Doug cut the talk saying that he won't change the name, and I must say I agree. That isn't to say your points are invalid, you're concern is justified. The solution here is not to change modperl's name. modperl, in a way, is a low level thing. It's just Perl + Apache. When in need of a convincing name, say I use Foo where Foo is the name of something that runs on top of modperl. I use AxKit, I use FooAppFramework, etc. can sound a lot better. Of course, on top of that you need a good looking website with marketing talk. In any case changing the name alone doesn't help. Website content welcome ;-) -- ___ Robin Berjon [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- CTO k n o w s c a p e : // venture knowledge agency www.knowscape.com --- Paranoids are people, too; they have their own problems. It's easy to criticize, but if everybody hated you, you'd be paranoid too.
New mod_perl name was [Re: New mod_perl Logo]
how about Everest? Niagara? Multiphase? Slipstream? DigiServer? Pointillion? Web Mammoth? SharpWeb? Web Enterprise? EnterWeb? Ged Haywood wrote: Hi there, On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Chris Thompson wrote: mod_perl is a lousy name. [snip] mod_perl needs a name. Something marketable, something catchy. How about BigFoot? 73, Ged. -- ___cliff [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.genwax.com/
Re: New mod_perl Logo
Thanks for sharing your opinion and it has brought up some of my own that I had held in reserve for sometime now. I would 100% agree with a claim that a name is effecting usage if we were selling a food product or something else to the general public, but even then far more products have failed because they weren't properly explained to the public. mod_perl is a beast of tool/product. It harnesses the full power of Apache web server and Perl to allow you do dam near anything with the data you need to handle. Apache because of its large platform support and well designed architecture has proven that it is enterprise ready. That brings me to the rub of this discussion however, Perl. I love Perl, I use Perl for almost every programming task that I need in my work and personal computing use. That isn't enough though. Perl has a rep, MySQL has a rep too. These *once* true statements such as Its just a scripting language for Unix or It doesn't support transactions etc. are becoming more and more the cripples of the acceptance not the name. These great and power products don't have someone dispelling the myths on national television while none computer managers are watching TV, they only remember what the last consultant said. I am not knocking managers I am just showing human nature, that is we don't change our opinions unless someone we trust (the TV? ) more then the last person explains clearly why we should. We have had several discussions over the last three years on this list about advocating mod_perl. I think what it really boils down to is a polished web presence and a strong statement of the power and efficiency of the product at hand and in this case a place your favorite open source application here page to refute known myths. Aaron Johnson Chris Thompson wrote: On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Jonathan M. Hollin wrote: Ideas for logos, banners, powered by-type buttons are all welcome. Well, I'd like to just throw one idea into the mix. It's something that's bugged me for a long time, no better time than the present. mod_perl is a lousy name. There, I've said it. For any number of reasons, perl does now and will always face an uphill struggle in any Enterprise application. For example, at my place of employment, we just went through a rather arduous task that I fought against and lost. We had a production site that handled a decent amount of traffic. Apache, mod_perl, Linux and MySQL. It ran and ran with almost no intervention. The management team of the company that bought us a year ago had been trying to force a change in the product by throwing up various arguments, which were always false. (MySQL doesnt support Transaction, Yes it does. But they arent atomic., Yes they are. Well, you can't roll them back., Yes you can.) In the end, I lost. From October to mid January they set about taking our fully functional product and replatforming it to Win2k/IIS/ASP+VB/MSSQL. The final reason? Responsible enterprises do not use perl. mod_perl needs a name. Something marketable, something catchy. The java folks learned that a long time ago. Their systems are called Tomcat/Jakarta and Cocoon and Resin. THAT, in my opinion, is what should happen for mod_perl 2.0. It should be Adirondack or Orwell or any other generic, innocuous name. Even MonkeyButter v1.0 is probably a better deal than mod_perl. As for logos, Avoiding Camels or Eagles is a requirement. I don't blame ORA for requiring the trademark notices, the twisted concepts of US trademark law REQUIRE them to do that. The first time they didnt, they could lose their trademark. But we should have a mascot that makes sense and is OURS. Linux has the penguin, OpenBSD has the blowfish, the other BSD's have the devil. Those images are clearly associated with those products, and can be used WITHOUT corporate approval. -- ___ Chris Thompson
Re: New mod_perl Logo
In a message dated 30-Jan-02 12:50:50 AM GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: How about "BigFoot"? Probably not the best for a server application. Might make one think of the "footprint" involved ... and isn't one of the major reasons to moving to mod_perl to reduce the overhead and "footprint" of the server? Now Yetti no conotation there. Or Swamp Beast, Sasquatch, or possibly even the local favorite Nessie (I'd love to see Ora get a picture of her on the next book!) -Chris
Re: New mod_perl Logo
I agree. mod_perl is a technology not a platform. Java is called Java, Servlets are called Servlets, but products on top of the technology (eg app servers) are usually have the name Orwellian Pearlz Factory. If you wanted to use a marketing name, you should have just told them you were using one of the frameworks on top of mod_perl like AxKit or Mason. At 08:59 AM 1/30/2002, Robin Berjon wrote: Hi ct ! On Wednesday 30 January 2002 01:29, Chris Thompson wrote: Well, I'd like to just throw one idea into the mix. It's something that's bugged me for a long time, no better time than the present. mod_perl is a lousy name. There, I've said it. This discussion has occured already. The conclusion was simple: the name won't change. Doug cut the talk saying that he won't change the name, and I must say I agree. That isn't to say your points are invalid, you're concern is justified. The solution here is not to change modperl's name. modperl, in a way, is a low level thing. It's just Perl + Apache. When in need of a convincing name, say I use Foo where Foo is the name of something that runs on top of modperl. I use AxKit, I use FooAppFramework, etc. can sound a lot better. Of course, on top of that you need a good looking website with marketing talk. In any case changing the name alone doesn't help. Website content welcome ;-) -- ___ Robin Berjon [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- CTO k n o w s c a p e : // venture knowledge agency www.knowscape.com --- Paranoids are people, too; they have their own problems. It's easy to criticize, but if everybody hated you, you'd be paranoid too. __ Gunther Birznieks ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) eXtropia - The Open Web Technology Company http://www.eXtropia.com/
Re: New mod_perl Logo
I really don't think a catchy name would have helped in your case. Your management, like many others, prefer to manage by magazine. And we all know who is in all the magazines. If your management did not like Perl, why not try java, c or php? If your management did not like MySQL, why not Postgres, Sybase, Oracle, Informix? My point is it would not matter. The issue was not Perl, the real issue was that it was not a Microsoft product. - Original Message - From: Chris Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 5:29 PM Subject: Re: New mod_perl Logo On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Jonathan M. Hollin wrote: Ideas for logos, banners, powered by-type buttons are all welcome. Well, I'd like to just throw one idea into the mix. It's something that's bugged me for a long time, no better time than the present. mod_perl is a lousy name. There, I've said it. For any number of reasons, perl does now and will always face an uphill struggle in any Enterprise application. For example, at my place of employment, we just went through a rather arduous task that I fought against and lost. We had a production site that handled a decent amount of traffic. Apache, mod_perl, Linux and MySQL. It ran and ran with almost no intervention. The management team of the company that bought us a year ago had been trying to force a change in the product by throwing up various arguments, which were always false. (MySQL doesnt support Transaction, Yes it does. But they arent atomic., Yes they are. Well, you can't roll them back., Yes you can.) In the end, I lost. From October to mid January they set about taking our fully functional product and replatforming it to Win2k/IIS/ASP+VB/MSSQL. The final reason? Responsible enterprises do not use perl. mod_perl needs a name. Something marketable, something catchy. The java folks learned that a long time ago. Their systems are called Tomcat/Jakarta and Cocoon and Resin. THAT, in my opinion, is what should happen for mod_perl 2.0. It should be Adirondack or Orwell or any other generic, innocuous name. Even MonkeyButter v1.0 is probably a better deal than mod_perl. As for logos, Avoiding Camels or Eagles is a requirement. I don't blame ORA for requiring the trademark notices, the twisted concepts of US trademark law REQUIRE them to do that. The first time they didnt, they could lose their trademark. But we should have a mascot that makes sense and is OURS. Linux has the penguin, OpenBSD has the blowfish, the other BSD's have the devil. Those images are clearly associated with those products, and can be used WITHOUT corporate approval. -- ___ Chris Thompson
Re: New mod_perl Logo
Jeezus you guys. All theseAmerican-style names are verging on the racist. This is world-wide code, not f---ing American-wide code. CheersRon Savage[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://savage.net.au/index.html - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 12:48 PM Subject: Re: New mod_perl Logo In a message dated 30-Jan-02 12:50:50 AM GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: How about "BigFoot"? Probably not the best for a server application. Might make one think of the "footprint" involved ... and isn't one of the major reasons to moving to mod_perl to reduce the overhead and "footprint" of the server? Now Yetti no conotation there. Or Swamp Beast, Sasquatch, or possibly even the local favorite Nessie (I'd love to see Ora get a picture of her on the next book!) -Chris
Re: New mod_perl Logo
At 07:29 PM 01/29/02 -0500, Chris Thompson wrote: Well, I'd like to just throw one idea into the mix. It's something that's bugged me for a long time, no better time than the present. mod_perl is a lousy name. I don't know about lousy, but I do agree. I brought this up on the docs-dev list: http://search.apache.org/archives/docs-dev/0236.html During the week I posted that I had run into PHP programmers at a computer show, more PHP programmers at a pub (2 in the afternoon -- more out of work programmers), and ended up talking with a couple of Java programmers one day. The amazing thing was they all had a completely weird idea about what mod_perl is or what it does. And all thought it was slow, old, dead, not scalable, technology. And that was from programmers, not managers. We all know there is a lot of misinformation out there. Marketing is not everything, but it's a lot! What we know of mod_perl is more than just perl+Apache, really. It's a development platform, or development suite. It can be anything our marketing department says it is. ;) In these tough economic times, repackaging might be helpful. Who knows? And for some of us we know that mod_perl is also something that makes up a chunk of our livelihood. So, the promotion of mod_perl is quite important, unless we want to start spending more afternoons with those PHP programmers down at the corner pub. So how would a group like the mod_perl community promote itself in new ways? Well, other professionals often have professional organizations or associations to represent and promote their members. I wonder if there are there enough mod_perl programmers to support something like that. Even if there were, what could be done? Run a few print ads in magazines that system admins read? Hire an ad firm for help in developing our brand? mod_perl coffee mugs? (Tired of that old cup of Java?) Free mod_perl clinics? Hard to imagine any of that actually happening, really. So what's a group of programmers to do? The new web site should help, to some degree, but I'm not sure it will change any manager's mind on the technology they pick to run their applications. Of course, most people here have access to big pipes. So, there's always bulk mail ads. I got mail just today saying that it's an effective way to advertise. In fact I got about ten of those today! -- Bill Moseley mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
