Re: Netscape snooping on search terms from Netscape6

[Morten Nilsen]

Bamm Gabriana wrote:
> 
> Binaries are made available for testing purposes only.

Or as I look at it;
Binaries are provided for those who are unable to compile themselves..
such as most windows users out there.

-- 
Morten Nilsen, aka Dr. P

We are the borg^]dbdbiMicrosoft.
Prepare to be assimilated^]dbiembraced and extended.
Resistance is futile^]dbdbdbiWe know you want it.
:wq

Re: Netscape snooping on search terms from Netscape6

[Bamm Gabriana]

> Sure there is: "oh, we forgot to put invade_privacy.cpp on the public
> CVS, sorry, honest mistake!"

Something you don't understand... in Mozilla (as in other open source
projects) the source code *is* the product.

Binaries are made available for testing purposes only.

Re: Nutscrape 6 Spyware???

[Bamm Gabriana]

> Maybe they should mind their own business.

I believe that's precisely the reason they are doing that. :)

Re: Netscape snooping on search terms from Netscape6

[Bamm Gabriana]

> Sure there is: "oh, we forgot to put invade_privacy.cpp on the public
> CVS, sorry, honest mistake!"

You're too paranoid. Better stick to your beloved MS where
your privacy will *never* be violated.

bookmark notify bug in 0.9.9 branch build?

[Johnny Cage]

I was wonder if there was a bug in the bookmarks noify, its seem i can't 
do properties on any of the bookmark its grayed out. is it a bug or did 
they turn it off for 1.0?

bookmarks nofiy 0.9.9 bug?

[Johnny Cage]

I was wonder if there was a bug in the bookmarks noify, its seem i can't 
do properties on any of the bookmark its grayed out. is it a bug or did 
they turn it off for 1.0?

Re: Professional Web Design

[Lancer]

...m .

no znx

Re: More reasons not to download Netscape 6.2.1 - wait until next release!!

[Randall Parker]

On Fri, 08 Mar 2002 23:35:25 GMT esteemed Netscape Basher did hold forth 
thusly:



Well Basher Bundy, my suggestion is that you don't use NS 6.21 and stop 
complaining about it. 

I think Moz is maturing very nicely. Since about Moz v0.97 I've found it is 
a better browser than IE 5.5 SP2. I'd try IE 6.0 but people tell me its 
slower and less reliable and so I'll wait till MS does fixes to that major 
release. 

Each Moz point rev keeps getting faster and better. It runs for weeks on 
end with no crash. I really like the tabs. I really like "What's Related" 
as a way to find new and interesting sites. I also like the way one can 
configure which search engine to use and then type in a search pattern and 
hit Search. 

So for me this is a very satisfying browser and I'm thrilled by its 
progress.

Re: More reasons not to download Netscape 6.2.1 - wait until next release!!

[Christopher Jahn]

And it came to pass that Netscape Basher wrote:

> Jonas Jørgensen typed:
>> Netscape Basher wrote:
>> 
>>> Which validates my statement. Do not download 6.2.1 until
>>> the next release. 
>> 
>> 
>> You are posting in the wrong newsgroup. This one is about
>> the Mozilla project. The only reason the name begins with
>> "netscape" is that Netscape was so kind to donate disk
>> space and bandwidth for the Mozilla newsgroups. 
> 
> totally False. Netscape has nothing to do with the bandwidth
> on this newsgroup. It is not hosted by Netscape, it is
> hosted by 100's of newsgroup servers around the world. It is
> a general usenet forum, just like the 10,000s of others.
> 
> Now the ones on secnews.netscape.com are hosted by Netscape
> and do use their bandwith and resources.
> 
> 
> This newsgroup has nothing to do with Netscape 6. Try one of
>> the following:
>> 
>> snews://secnews.netscape.com/netscape.netscape6.windows
>> snews://secnews.netscape.com/netscape.netscape6.unix
>> snews://secnews.netscape.com/netscape.netscape6.macintosh 
>> 
>> /Jonas
> 
> And then they will claim only technical information is
> supposed to be posted there. Which is fair because on those
> groups, Netscape does provide the bandwidth.
> 

Those are the Netscape6 peer support groups - while technical 
data is not unwelcome, those groups are intended to provide 
users with answers and information to help them to fully realize 
their Netscape experience.




-- 
}:-)   Christopher Jahn
{:-( Dionysian Reveler
  
If you can't convince them, confuse them. (Harry S. Truman)
 
To reply: xjahnATyahooDOTcom

Re: More reasons not to download Netscape 6.2.1 - wait until next release!!

[Johnny Cage]

I never Seen So Much Paranoia over nothing, netscape and mozilla nothing
to complain about them. look at ie 6.0 thats really invasion of privacy
its the worst when it comes to privacy. netscape 6.2.1 since to be
outdated on cookie managment but does alot better than ie 6.0. the
lastest mozilla does a hell alot better job than both, so i see nothing
to complain about mozilla.

Re: More reasons not to download Netscape 6.2.1 - wait until next release!!

[Johnny Cage]

>>Since you've only used Netscape 6.2, which is based on a very old
>>version of Mozilla, and have never used a recent milestone, how could
>>you possibly be able to say one way or the other? Opinions founded on
>>ignorance are worthless.
>>
> 
> As are those founded on self-delusion.  This privacy-invasion BS is just
> what Mozilla didn't need.
> 


I never Seen So Much Paranoia over nothing, netscape and mozilla nothing 
to complain about them. look at ie 6.0 thats really invasion of privacy 
its the worst when it comes to privacy. netscape 6.2.1 since to be 
outdated on cookie managment but does alot better than ie 6.0. the 
lastest mozilla does a hell alot better job than both, so i see nothing 
to grape about mozilla.

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Re: More reasons not to download Netscape 6.2.1 - wait until nextrelease!!

[Netscape Basher]

Christian Biesinger typed:
> Jonas Jørgensen wrote:
> 
>> Christian Biesinger wrote:
>>
>>> And, by the way, I just went to the Opera Home Page and was unable to 
>>> find a single theme there.
>>
>>
>>
>> www.opera.com --> My Opera --> Customize
> 
> 
> Oh indeed, thanks for the link.
> 
> Netscape Basher: These themes are not provided by Opera. Well, they mayb 
> be provided by Opera, but not created by them. I suppose Opera itself 
> has only created one theme, the default one, but of course this might 
> not be true.
> 
> 

And Netscape 6 was supposed to provide dozens of users added themes. 
What happened? Netscape pulled the plug on it.

That is Netscape shitting on its users.
Not the same as Mozilla.

Re: More reasons not to download Netscape 6.2.1 - wait until nextrelease!!

[Netscape Basher]

Bamm Gabriana typed:
>>Which validates my statement. Do not download 6.2.1 until the next
> 
> release.
> 
> Exactly the point. We all agree with you here so there's no
> point bashing us on this. But the fact that NS621 sucks is
> no reason to hate Mozilla, since most of your complaints
> do not apply to Mozilla.

If I hated Mozilla so much, I wouldn't be using it. Again, it's the 
direction that Mozilla is going to that I hate, not so much the product.

> 
> It's like flooding the Microsoft newsgroups because you
> don't like Neoplanet's features! (Neoplanet is based on
> IE just like Netscape is based on Moz)

If there is a group with the name Microsoft and Neoplanet in it and I 
got complaints I would post them. This group has the name of Netscape 
and Mozilla in it. If you want Moz to be seperate it is not hard to 
start groups called. alt.mozilla.general

> 
> FYI Mozilla 0.9.8 is way better than Netscape 6.2.1.
> and more stable than 0.9.7.
> 
> I suggest you download it and see the difference.

Read what I am posting with.
Mozilla .9.8 build 2002030703

That gives me every right to complain about the product.

--
Kyle

Re: More reasons not to download Netscape 6.2.1 - wait until nextrelease!!

[Netscape Basher]

Jonas Jørgensen typed:
> Netscape Basher wrote:
> 
>> Which validates my statement. Do not download 6.2.1 until the next 
>> release.
> 
> 
> You are posting in the wrong newsgroup. This one is about the Mozilla 
> project. The only reason the name begins with "netscape" is that 
> Netscape was so kind to donate disk space and bandwidth for the Mozilla 
> newsgroups. 

totally False. Netscape has nothing to do with the bandwidth on this 
newsgroup. It is not hosted by Netscape, it is hosted by 100's of 
newsgroup servers around the world. It is a general usenet forum, just 
like the 10,000s of others.

Now the ones on secnews.netscape.com are hosted by Netscape and do use 
their bandwith and resources.


This newsgroup has nothing to do with Netscape 6. Try one of
> the following:
> 
> snews://secnews.netscape.com/netscape.netscape6.windows
> snews://secnews.netscape.com/netscape.netscape6.unix
> snews://secnews.netscape.com/netscape.netscape6.macintosh
> 
> /Jonas

And then they will claim only technical information is supposed to be 
posted there. Which is fair because on those groups, Netscape does 
provide the bandwidth.

Netscape has nothing to do with running this newsgroup.

Re: More reasons not to download Netscape 6.2.1 - wait until nextrelease!!

[Netscape Basher]

Christian Biesinger typed:
> Arg. OK. Let's continue flaming.
> 
> Netscape Basher wrote:
> 
>> Christian Biesinger typed:
>>
>>> Netscape Basher wrote:
>>>
 Abandonment of theme development on 6.2.1? Shitting on users
>>>
>>> Pardon?? You call it "shitting on users" providing five themes for a 
>>> browser?
>>
>>
>> Considering Netscape hasn't made single one available for months. 
>> Opera gives dozens of themes.
> 
> 
> I didn't know that Opera supports themes...
> And, by the way, I just went to the Opera Home Page and was unable to 
> find a single theme there.

You didn't bother looking

http://my.opera.com/customize/

dozens...

> 
 Giving you a worthless version of Real Player? That is a big issue
>>>
>>>
>>> Which version does Netscape come with?
>>>
>>> But anyway, if you want a newer one, don't install the one 
>>> distributed with Netscape, but get it from real.com.  This is not at 
>>> all a big issue.
>>
>>
>> End users shouldn't have to do this and it is a big deal with modem 
>> users, which are the majority of users.
> 
> 
> Personally, I find that RealPlayer 8 works with everything that I've tried.

Wait until you find a site that will tell you have to update your 
player. Netscape should be giving it's customers the lastest stuff.


> 
 Having to register it? That is a big issue
>>>
>>> You don't have to register it.
>>
>>
>> Oh, and that lovely pop-up box is just there to please us?
> 
> 
> Click the "X" Button in the upper right corner.
> Or follow my suggestion from another posting.

And it comes back the next time you start.

> 
 And the fact it's been four years and STILL no 1.0 Mozilla version, 
 and the roadmap continues to be moved back.
>>>
>>> My personal guess is that 1.0 will be released in April, as the 
>>> roadmap states.
>>
>>
>> Go back and read the road map from two years ago. One year ago.
>> 0.9.9 is behind schedule.
> 
> 
> 0.9.9 is not behind schedule. The Roadmap only talks about an "ideal 
> release". We will release it later. So what? Better release a better 
> product later than a bad product now.
> And in any case it needs not affect the 1.0 release.

Go back and read the road map from two years ago, one year ago.
It's behind schedule. By the time they release a good product, it will 
be out of date... again

> 
 And the fact more bugs are being found than fixed.
>>>
>>> Most "new found bugs" are really either already known or requests for 
>>> enhancements.
>>
>> Not according to their own statistics. More bugs are being assigned 
>> than fixed.
> 
> 
> I don't see a contradiction here.
> 
>> Mozilla is not an end-product, it is a beta product, has been for four 
>> years now.
> 
> 
> If Mozilla is a beta product, why is Netscape not? It's mostly the same 
> code.
> 

Because Netscape promotes it as a Fully Functional end user product.
Netscape is not Mozilla. The latest Netscape took Mozilla .9.4, added 
some code and bells and published it, as a fully working version of 
Netscape.

Mozilla is very clear they are not an end user product and are a beta 
product. Take a look at what I am posting this under, Mozilla. I am a 
tester and I view from an end user point of view.

mozilla 0.9.8 prefs.js's dirctory nameing???

[Song pan]

I had trouble to change the default dirctory to somewhere else in Win2k. 
I was trying to change my bookmark file from default profile directory 
to my own one. E.g.
"C:\Documents and 
Settings\rootpan\iFolder\doc\bookmarks\bookmarks.html", with the line
user_pref("browser.bookmark_location", "C:\\Documents and 
Settings\\rootpan\\iFolder\\doc\\bookmarks\\bookmarks.html");
It doesn't work. And same as address book file, I can change the name of 
the address book but I can't move it any other directory, even the child 
directory of the profile directory. Any idea how to fix it?

Song Pan

Re: For all the Einsteins, this is where you got Mozilla .9.9 from

[N. Miller]

On Thu, 07 Mar 2002 16:47:13 -0500, Jason Fleshman
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>Jay Garcia wrote:
>> On 03/06/2002 12:25 AM, Jason Fleshman wrote:
>> 
>>>Bundy wrote:
>>>
ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla/nightly/latest-0.9.9

Not even Garica knew about this, which shocks me.

It's a peice of shit though.
>>>
>>>You have an incomplete understanding of how the Mozilla builds work. 
>>>Anything in the "latest" directory is /not/ a milestone release.  The 
>>>builds in ../latest-0.9.9 are the builds that the Mozilla people are 
>>>working on to try to make 0.9.9 (the 0.9.9 branch).  When they've 
>>>squashed enough bugs to satisfy themselves, the real 0.9.9 will be 
>>>released, a post will be placed on the mozilla.org and mozillazine.org 
>>>home pages, and there will be a post made here as well.
>>>
>>>As for its "piece-of-shit-ness", there are a lot of last-minute fixes 
>>>being tried out that may be quick as opposed to permanent (that's what 
>>>the trunk is for), so the quality of these "candidate" builds can be 
>>>every bit as variable as a nightly.  When the real 0.9.9 is released, 
>>>they'll tell us :)
>>>
>>>--Jason
>> 
>> Good reply Jason but you're wasting your time. He has no intention of
>> learning or contributing to the cause.
>> 
>
>Maybe.  OK, probably.  But if someone who didn't know how the system is 
>set up is taking the time to follow this thread at least now /they/ 
>know.  That's good enough, I guess.
>
>--Jason
>
Yep. I am learning as I follow along...

Re: Netscape snooping on search terms from Netscape6

[JTK]

Jonas Jørgensen wrote:
> 
> JTK wrote:
> 
> > I didn't ask for the source code, I asked for a statement by a
> > Mozilla/AOL official.
> 
> Sure, but they could be lying, right?

AOL lie?  That's crazy talk!

But if the "community" caught them in a lie

> The source code doesn't lie.
>

The source code that you are privy to doesn't.  How do I know the
nightlies I download are built from only the publically available
source?
 
> >> So there is no possible way Mozilla can contain any such "feature".
> >
> > There is *every* possible way for it to contain such a "feature".
> 
> Let me rephrase that: There is no possible way for Mozilla to *secretly*
> contain such a "feature".
> 

Sure there is: "oh, we forgot to put invade_privacy.cpp on the public
CVS, sorry, honest mistake!"

> >> If
> >> it did, everyone would know about it.
> >
> > Uh, no, only the people working on Mozilla would
> 
> ...and everyone who decides to take a look at the source to see if it
> contains any privacy-invading search feature.
>

And the only people who are able to look at said source?  Yep: AOL.
 
> >> That's the beauty of open source.
> >
> > Please spell it right: "Open Source(tm)".
> 
> Please look up the correct spelling before incorrectly correcting a
> spelling which is correct.
> 
> Official spelling: "Open Source" or "open source". It is not a
> trademark. http://opensource.org/press_releases/certified-open-source.html
>

It might as well be.
 
> I actually appreciate when people point out errors in my spelling, but
> only in the cases where I actually misspelled something.
> 
> /Jonas

Re: Nutscrape 6 Spyware???

[JTK]

Bamm Gabriana wrote:
> 
> I too am glad Moz doesn't do this.
> 
> However I don't see anything wrong with ns doing this - it
> is only counting searches.
>

Sure!  That's all they're doing!  Nothing to see here!  Move along!
 
> I do find it annoying that it terribly slows down my searches
> by passing through info.netscape.com. Netscape servers are
> terribly slow and I wish they didn't force browser users to
> have to go thhrough it.
> 
> A searchid variable is sent to Google - maybe Netscape
> should use this instead to count stats.

Maybe they should mind their own business.

Re: More reasons not to download Netscape 6.2.1 - wait until next release!!

[JTK]

Garth Wallace wrote:
> 
> Netscape Basher wrote:
> > Bamm Gabriana wrote:
> >
> >> This is a newsgroup for Mozilla, not Netscape.
> >> We don't care about AOL's shortcuts or spyware
> >> coz we don't have them.
> >
> > netscape.public.mozilla.general
> >
> > Then rename the group so it doesn't say Netscape in it.
> 
> That's what we all want,

Everybody except AOL.

> so we don't have a bunch of people asking about
> Netscape Communicator in here. For what it's worth, the bug for the
> change is here: http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=62228
>

How many years has that bug been in there now Garth?  At least for a
while AOL was making up all kinds of excuses as to why this simple
change wasn't going to be made, now they just ignore the cries in the
wilderness.

Who does number two work for?  AOL, that's who.
 
> > Mozilla is a sinking ship anyhow.
> 
> Since you've only used Netscape 6.2, which is based on a very old
> version of Mozilla, and have never used a recent milestone, how could
> you possibly be able to say one way or the other? Opinions founded on
> ignorance are worthless.

As are those founded on self-delusion.  This privacy-invasion BS is just
what Mozilla didn't need.

Re: problems with hotmail "view source" mozilla 0.9.8

[michael lefevre]

In article
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Denis
Perelyubskiy wrote:
[snip]
> 
> Thanks for the quick response. Other browsers also fetch the
> new page for this feature. I think I might've not been
> clear, sorry. By "View Source" I meant clicking on the link
> present in the individual email message view in hotmail.
> The link itself is called "View Message Source" or something
> of that nature. Typically, browsers will just open a new
> page with a source of an email message (full headers and
> such), but with mozilla, I get redirected to the login page
>:(
> 
> I dont think this was the same thing you were referring
> to, or was it?

no, it wasn't.  he meant the "view source" command in mozilla, which
shows the HTML source of the page.

i know hotmail has various issues when it doesn't get HTTP referrer
from the browser.  it's also heavy on jscript aimed at IE.  maybe there's
something different about the way mozilla handles the script, or with the
referrer?  just guessing here...

-- 
michael

Re: problems with hotmail "view source" mozilla 0.9.8

[Denis Perelyubskiy]

 > The problem is with Mozilla in this case, because "View Source" in 
 > Mozilla currently fetches a new copy of the page from Hotmail. This is a 
 > bug.

Thanks for the quick response. Other browsers also fetch the
new page for this feature. I think I might've not been
clear, sorry. By "View Source" I meant clicking on the link
present in the individual email message view in hotmail.
The link itself is called "View Message Source" or something
of that nature. Typically, browsers will just open a new
page with a source of an email message (full headers and
such), but with mozilla, I get redirected to the login page
:(

I dont think this was the same thing you were referring
to, or was it?

thanks,

denis

-- 
if you want to reply by mail, please tweak my
address in a reasonable way. sorry for the 
inconvenience.

Re: Mozilla 1.0: Ready for the corporate desktop?

[Garth Wallace]

Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T. wrote:
> 
> What's happening with plugins now is that they currently use a system
> called "liveconnect" which has more or less banned according to W3C
> rules.

Philip, you really should see a psychiatrist about your compulsive 
lying. It's pathological.

Re: More reasons not to download Netscape 6.2.1 - wait until next release!!

[Garth Wallace]

Netscape Basher wrote:
> Bamm Gabriana wrote:
> 
>> This is a newsgroup for Mozilla, not Netscape.
>> We don't care about AOL's shortcuts or spyware
>> coz we don't have them.
> 
> netscape.public.mozilla.general
> 
> Then rename the group so it doesn't say Netscape in it. 

That's what we all want, so we don't have a bunch of people asking about 
Netscape Communicator in here. For what it's worth, the bug for the 
change is here: http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=62228

> Mozilla is a sinking ship anyhow.

Since you've only used Netscape 6.2, which is based on a very old 
version of Mozilla, and have never used a recent milestone, how could 
you possibly be able to say one way or the other? Opinions founded on 
ignorance are worthless.

Re: Sun Java Question about mozilla

[Sören Kuklau]

On 3/9/2002 5:41 PM, Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T. apparently wrote exactly
the following:
> This thread has ben going for a day or so in the Java group.
> 
> "Java2 JRE not gonna support Mozilla officially..."
> 
> Are any of you in the general/wishlist Groups aware of this. From the
> original thread it appears Sun will not be supporting Mozilla
> compatibility with Java2.
> 
> Anyone know about this, and what are the consequences of this to
> Mozilla?
> 
> This is not trolling. This is asking a legit question. Some folks over
> in the Java group appear to be worried about. Should they be?

In what way does Java2 support any specific browser? They're just making 
plugins for certain browsers, and that's it - so why bother about 
certain browser? I don't get that.

> --
> ---
> 
> Phillip M. Jones, CET  |MEMBER:VPEA (LIFE) ETA-I, NESDA,ISCET,
> Sterling
> 616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045,
> FAX:276-632-0868
> Martinsville Va 24112-1809 |[EMAIL PROTECTED], ICQ11269732, AIM
> pjonescet
> ---
> 
> If it's "fixed", don't "break it"!
> 
> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

1. Clean up your sig.

2. Put a space after the "--" line so it's actually recognized by proper 
mail clients as a sig.

-- 
Regards,
Sören Kuklau ('Chucker')
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Nutscrape 6 Spyware???

[Garth Wallace]

dman84 wrote:
> Netscape Basher wrote:
> 
>> Mike Hatz (Remove the SPAM) wrote:
>>
>>> Glad Moz doesn't do this:
>>>
>>> http://www.newsbytes.com/news/02/175035.html
> 
> Why should I care is it passes thru aoltw.com anyway, I'm sure there 
> just db your computer software and everything else just like MS does.  I 
> use google to find stuff with mozilla. If you dont like netscape's 
> search engine use another that is listed or add others that exist in the 
> list.

You didn't read the link. Netscape is snooping on Google searches done 
with NS6.

RESOLVED-> Re: URL could not be found. Check name & try again. <- Huh!!!

[Courtney Thomas]

Thanks for the responses.
linux_base-7 won't work. Use either linux_base or linux_base-6.

HTH


Courtney Thomas wrote:

> I am getting the above error msg. whenever I try to access anything 
> using mozilla, although
> Netscape4 "on the same machine" connects w/o problems.
> 
> It boots up OK, but just won't connect to anything.
> 
> What's wrong and how do I fix it, please.
> 
> Thank you,
> Courtney
> 

Re: problems with hotmail "view source" mozilla 0.9.8

[Garth Wallace]

Denis Perelyubskiy wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> Does anyone else notice a problem when trying to d/l
> attachments or "view source" of an email message at hotmail?
> This is the only browser (0.9.8, Linux) where a new window
> is opened, and I am prompted to re-login at which point I am
> taken to the main page, not to the "view source" page or to
> the "attachment" page.
> 
> I guess I am wondering if the problem is with hotmail, and
> how it singles out mozilla, or the problem is with mozilla.

The problem is with Mozilla in this case, because "View Source" in 
Mozilla currently fetches a new copy of the page from Hotmail. This is a 
bug.

problems with hotmail "view source" mozilla 0.9.8

[Denis Perelyubskiy]

Hello,

Does anyone else notice a problem when trying to d/l
attachments or "view source" of an email message at hotmail?
This is the only browser (0.9.8, Linux) where a new window
is opened, and I am prompted to re-login at which point I am
taken to the main page, not to the "view source" page or to
the "attachment" page.

I guess I am wondering if the problem is with hotmail, and
how it singles out mozilla, or the problem is with mozilla.

thanks,

denis

-- 
if you want to reply by mail, please tweak my
address in a reasonable way. sorry for the 
inconvenience.

Re: More reasons not to download Netscape 6.2.1 - wait until next release!!

[DeMoN LaG]

Christian Biesinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in news:3C89F76D.20600
@web.de, on 09 Mar 2002:

> Every day a full version of Mozilla is made available.
> 

Actually, looking at the ftp server it's more like 2 to 3 times a day a 
full version is made available

-- 
AIM: FlyersR1 9
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
_ = m

Re: Put the Home Button on the main toolbar

[me]

I don't get that impression.

- Doc

Jonas Jørgensen wrote:

> me wrote:
> > I did look at the page you gave the link for.  However, it looks like the
> > issue is being swept under the carpet, from the discussion posted on that
> > page.  It doesn't appear that anything will change on this topic.
>
> Maybe not now, but at some point, it will.
>
> /Jonas

Re: Content Type for .css files

[michael lefevre]

In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Christian Biesinger wrote:
> Jens Hatlak wrote:
>> Christian Biesinger wrote:
>>> However, this is only the case for pages using the strict mode.
>>> It works for others, so a doctype like this can be used and the 
>>> stylesheet will work:
>>> 
>>> (I hope I remember correctly...(
> 
>> The problem is not the Strict mode but the URL. 
> 
> Eh, the URL triggers the Strict Mode.
> And there are doctypes without URLs that trigger strict mode as well, afaik.

what he meant was that it wasn't a strict doctype.

you can trigger strict mode by using a strict doctype, but strict mode is
also used to render non-strict documents in a strictly non-strict way if
they have a non-strict doctype including a URL.

i'm not sure if it's officially called "strict mode", but it's a dumb
name to use in any case, because it has little to do with HTML strict.
calling it "standards-compliant mode" would avoid confusion between the
HTML Strict standard and mozilla's "strict" (i.e. compliant) mode,
which can apply to documents which are not written in HTML Strict.

-- 
michael

Re: More reasons not to download Netscape 6.2.1 - wait until next release!!

[Christian Biesinger]

Jonas Jørgensen wrote:
> Christian Biesinger wrote:
> 
>> And, by the way, I just went to the Opera Home Page and was unable to 
>> find a single theme there.
> 
> 
> www.opera.com --> My Opera --> Customize

Oh indeed, thanks for the link.

Netscape Basher: These themes are not provided by Opera. Well, they mayb 
be provided by Opera, but not created by them. I suppose Opera itself 
has only created one theme, the default one, but of course this might 
not be true.


-- 
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
  -- Benjamin Franklin

Re: More reasons not to download Netscape 6.2.1 - wait until next release!!

[Christian Biesinger]

Bamm Gabriana wrote:
>>ARG! You have two possibilities: (actually, three)
>>Either you do what I suggested, or you do register for Netcenter, or you
>>close that window on every start of Netscape.
> 
> I think "close that window on every start of Netscape" is
> bad advice.
> 
> My friend definitely wouldn't want to close it everytime.
> Netscape implemented a bad idea and I hope you are not
> defending a bad idea.

 From a user's standpoint it's definitely a bad idea. It annoys me to 
(so I have edited my prefs.js. Not that I use NS much (Mozilla usually), 
but anyway...).

> I can edit .js files, but my friend
> doesn't and I'm willing to bet more people do not even
> know they exist.

Those people will, I suppose, simply register. IIRC, that dialog pretty 
much looked like you have to register to use NS.

> Is it too much to ask for Netscape to be more sensitive?

Being no Netscape employee, I can't comment on that point.
However, this _is_ a way for Netscape to make money, so I suppose this 
is the reason why they put it in.


-- 
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
  -- Benjamin Franklin

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Re: More reasons not to download Netscape 6.2.1 - wait until nextrelease!!

[Lancer]

I guess the actual 6.2.1 version of netscape has nothing to offer.
The themes doesnt make the aplication more efficient.
When i ve runned Netscape i feel it too heavy and very ...VERY slow.

to be honest i think is almost a piece of shit.

Re: More reasons not to download Netscape 6.2.1 - wait until next release!!

[Bamm Gabriana]

> Which validates my statement. Do not download 6.2.1 until the next
release.

Exactly the point. We all agree with you here so there's no
point bashing us on this. But the fact that NS621 sucks is
no reason to hate Mozilla, since most of your complaints
do not apply to Mozilla.

It's like flooding the Microsoft newsgroups because you
don't like Neoplanet's features! (Neoplanet is based on
IE just like Netscape is based on Moz)

FYI Mozilla 0.9.8 is way better than Netscape 6.2.1.
and more stable than 0.9.7.

I suggest you download it and see the difference.

Re: More reasons not to download Netscape 6.2.1 - wait until next release!!

[Bamm Gabriana]

> ARG! You have two possibilities: (actually, three)
> Either you do what I suggested, or you do register for Netcenter, or you
> close that window on every start of Netscape.

I think "close that window on every start of Netscape" is
bad advice.

My friend definitely wouldn't want to close it everytime.
Netscape implemented a bad idea and I hope you are not
defending a bad idea. I can edit .js files, but my friend
doesn't and I'm willing to bet more people do not even
know they exist.

Is it too much to ask for Netscape to be more sensitive?
I know this is the wrong newsgroup to post to, but since
the issue was opened up and since there are many Netscape
employees here I think the point would be getting across.

Re: Put the Home Button on the main toolbar

[Bamm Gabriana]

> A Home button, is a shortcut... almost a bookmark. And Back, Forward,
> Reload and Stop are Navigation buttons. So I think it is not a place to
> put a Home button.

The purpose of the home button is to have this one particular site
readily available at the click of a button. Most end users use this
as their jump-off point.

Having the Home in the bookmarks clearly defeats this purpose.
So does having Home in a personal toolbar that I have to make
visible just to click on Home.

You may be technical about your definition of Navigation Buttons
but most end users would consider going home as "navigation".

Home is technically a shortcut, but conceptually it is more than
that: it is a home. Otherwise there is no point being able to set
it in the preferences dialog since you can just bookmark it with
Ctrl+D.

Re: Put the Home Button on the main toolbar

[Jonas Jørgensen]

me wrote:
> I did look at the page you gave the link for.  However, it looks like the
> issue is being swept under the carpet, from the discussion posted on that
> page.  It doesn't appear that anything will change on this topic.

Maybe not now, but at some point, it will.

/Jonas

Re: More reasons not to download Netscape 6.2.1 - wait until next release!!

[Jonas Jørgensen]

Christian Biesinger wrote:

> And, by the way, I just went to the Opera Home Page and was unable to 
> find a single theme there.

www.opera.com --> My Opera --> Customize

/Jonas

Re: Put the Home Button on the main toolbar

[me]

I did look at the page you gave the link for.  However, it looks like the
issue is being swept under the carpet, from the discussion posted on that
page.  It doesn't appear that anything will change on this topic.

- Doc

Jonas Jørgensen wrote:

> me wrote:
> > Dan,
> >
> > Thanks for the information.  But, tell that to the masses that Mozilla,
> > Netscape, and others want to find and use Gecko based browsers.
>
> Why? It's a known issue and it will be fixed. Didn't you look at the
> link I  gave you? http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89350
>
> /Jonas

Re: More reasons not to download Netscape 6.2.1 - wait until next release!!

[Christian Biesinger]

Arg. OK. Let's continue flaming.

Netscape Basher wrote:
> Christian Biesinger typed:
>> Netscape Basher wrote:
>>> Abandonment of theme development on 6.2.1? Shitting on users
>> Pardon?? You call it "shitting on users" providing five themes for a 
>> browser?
> 
> Considering Netscape hasn't made single one available for months. Opera 
> gives dozens of themes.

I didn't know that Opera supports themes...
And, by the way, I just went to the Opera Home Page and was unable to 
find a single theme there.

>>> Giving you a worthless version of Real Player? That is a big issue
>>
>> Which version does Netscape come with?
>>
>> But anyway, if you want a newer one, don't install the one distributed 
>> with Netscape, but get it from real.com.  This is not at all a big issue.
> 
> End users shouldn't have to do this and it is a big deal with modem 
> users, which are the majority of users.

Personally, I find that RealPlayer 8 works with everything that I've tried.

>>> Having to register it? That is a big issue
>> You don't have to register it.
> 
> Oh, and that lovely pop-up box is just there to please us?

Click the "X" Button in the upper right corner.
Or follow my suggestion from another posting.

>>> And the fact it's been four years and STILL no 1.0 Mozilla version, 
>>> and the roadmap continues to be moved back.
>> My personal guess is that 1.0 will be released in April, as the 
>> roadmap states.
> 
> Go back and read the road map from two years ago. One year ago.
> 0.9.9 is behind schedule.

0.9.9 is not behind schedule. The Roadmap only talks about an "ideal 
release". We will release it later. So what? Better release a better 
product later than a bad product now.
And in any case it needs not affect the 1.0 release.

>>> And the fact more bugs are being found than fixed.
>> Most "new found bugs" are really either already known or requests for 
>> enhancements.
> Not according to their own statistics. More bugs are being assigned than 
> fixed.

I don't see a contradiction here.

> Mozilla is not an end-product, it is a beta product, has been for four 
> years now.

If Mozilla is a beta product, why is Netscape not? It's mostly the same 
code.

-- 
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
  -- Benjamin Franklin

Re: More reasons not to download Netscape 6.2.1 - wait until next release!!

[Christian Biesinger]

Netscape Basher wrote:
> Christian Biesinger typed:

>> Bamm Gabriana wrote:
>>
> Having to register it? That is a big issue



 You don't have to register it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> He's right on this one.[...]
>>> So I uninstalled Netscape and installed Mozilla and all was fine.
>>
>>
>>
>> I said you need not register it. The following page describes how to 
>> get rid of the "Activation" Screen.
>>
>> http://www.hmetzger.de/net6e.html#4
>>
> 
> That's a hack, not a solution.

ARG! You have two possibilities: (actually, three)
Either you do what I suggested, or you do register for Netcenter, or you 
close that window on every start of Netscape.

> You are out of touch with the general internet community, as are most 
> Netscape champs and Mozilla developers.

This specific feature has nothing to do with Mozilla developers. It is a 
Netscape only feature.
I would guess that Netscape Marketing or something is to blame.


And by the way: I don't care so much whether the Internet Community 
finds Mozilla a usable browser. I would much rather have a browser that 
I like myself.

-- 
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
  -- Benjamin Franklin

Re: Sun Java Question about mozilla

[Christian Biesinger]

Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T. wrote:
> "Java2 JRE not gonna support Mozilla officially..."

I suppose they only don't want to provide technical support for it, but 
that it will work very well, because they do want to support Netscape 6, 
which is based on Mozilla.


-- 
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
  -- Benjamin Franklin

Re: Put the Home Button on the main toolbar

[Jonas Jørgensen]

me wrote:
> Dan,
> 
> Thanks for the information.  But, tell that to the masses that Mozilla,
> Netscape, and others want to find and use Gecko based browsers.

Why? It's a known issue and it will be fixed. Didn't you look at the 
link I  gave you? http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89350

/Jonas

Re: Put the Home Button on the main toolbar

[me]

Dan,

Thanks for the information.  But, tell that to the masses that Mozilla,
Netscape, and others want to find and use Gecko based browsers.

- Doc

Dan Howard wrote:

> me wrote:
> > Whose idea was it to place the home button below the main toolbar where
> > Back, Forward, etc. are?  In my humble opinion, it should be placed
> > along side those other buttons.
> >
> > Doc
> >
>
> One temporary solution:
> Use the mouse gestures add-on available at
> http://optimoz.mozdev.org/gestures/index.html (thanks to Peter Lairo for
> pointing out this option and many more).
> Mouse gestures includes a method for getting to your set home page by
> moving the mouse in the shape of a squarish "h".  It takes a little
> getting used to, unless you've been using mouse gestures in Opera, but
> it will give you a quick connection home without the personal toolbar.

Re: Netscape snooping on search terms from Netscape6

[Netscape Basher]

Jonas Jørgensen typed:
> Jay Garcia wrote:
> 
>> In order to be classified as "Spyware", it would have to know your
>> personal information to associate with the search criteria as well as
>> demographics such as where you live possibly and/or other delimiting
>> personal information. And since this "feature" cannot do that it cannot
>> be classified as "Spyware". Every time you send email and/or post to a
>> newsgroup, your IP address is readily available.
> 
> 
> I disagree. "Spyware" is any software that spies on what you are doing 
> without your consent. For people with static IP adresses, an IP address 
> could be enough to reveal personal information.
> 
> We don't know what AOL does with the data it collects, but Netscape 6 
> certanly does qualify as _potential_ spyware. That doesn't make it any 
> worse than MSIE, though -- type an invalid domain name and you are taken 
> to MSN search. Who knows what MSFT does with the data they collect?
> 
> So both IE and NS could potentially be spying on their users. Lucky for 
> me that I use Mozilla.
> 
> /Jonas
> 

But at least with MS, you know you land on their site if you search term 
if void (doesn't excuse them though, still bad). Netscape goes through 
AOL without landing at the aol site, then forwards you to your search 
results. Deceptive to say the least.

I would say if you are going to search for stuff that could be 
embarassing if discovered linked to your isp, use an anonymous proxy 
like anonyzmier.com or jproxy.com

Re: More reasons not to download Netscape 6.2.1 - wait until nextrelease!!

[Netscape Basher]

Christian Biesinger typed:
> Bamm Gabriana wrote:
> 
 Having to register it? That is a big issue
>>>
>>>
>>> You don't have to register it.
>>
>>
>> He's right on this one.[...]
>> So I uninstalled Netscape and installed Mozilla and all was fine.
> 
> 
> I said you need not register it. The following page describes how to get 
> rid of the "Activation" Screen.
> 
> http://www.hmetzger.de/net6e.html#4
> 

That's a hack, not a solution.

1) Netscape users shouldn't have to hack or play with .js files
2) Netscape is an end user product, nearly all the users will not know 
the hack exist.

You are out of touch with the general internet community, as are most 
Netscape champs and Mozilla developers.

Re: Put the Home Button on the main toolbar

[Dan Howard]

me wrote:
> Whose idea was it to place the home button below the main toolbar where
> Back, Forward, etc. are?  In my humble opinion, it should be placed
> along side those other buttons.
> 
> Doc
> 

One temporary solution:
Use the mouse gestures add-on available at 
http://optimoz.mozdev.org/gestures/index.html (thanks to Peter Lairo for 
pointing out this option and many more).
Mouse gestures includes a method for getting to your set home page by 
moving the mouse in the shape of a squarish "h".  It takes a little 
getting used to, unless you've been using mouse gestures in Opera, but 
it will give you a quick connection home without the personal toolbar.

Re: Password protected profiles

[Sid Vicious]

dman84 wrote:
> Sid Vicious wrote:
> 
>> Anyone know the 'real' status of this bug?  It's almost a year and a 
>> half old and seems to just be floundering
>> http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16489
>>
>>
> 
> its not high on anyones priority list.. its futured too, unless someone 
> has time to work on it besides the assigned bug owner..
> 
> -dman84
> 

Yeah, I suppose getting Moz to function with what it has would be the 
first priority...

-- 
sid

Mozilla and Windows Media Player

[Sid Vicious]

Here's a good one.  Went to CDnow and tried to play a track clicking on 
the Window's Media Player and here's what happened (see pic).  Smooth!

recent nightly.

-- 
sid

Re: Put the Home Button on the main toolbar

[me]

I tend to strongly disagree.  Are you telling me that your home (as in place
where you reside in the physical world), isn't a place that you navigate to
a lot when you want to get home?

And, Home has been with those other Navigation buttons (back, forward, etc.)
for a long time including every major browser release in the past from
Netscape and Microsoft.  I don't need the personal toolbar in Mozilla except
for the "Home" button.  Why waste all that space on a little button when it
would fit on a toolbar that is very necessary?  Home has a home in the main
toolbar.  It has ever since I can remember with other browsers.  If Mozilla
wants to be taken seriously by the mainstream, it has to conform in some
ways to the past.  Most people know what the Home button does.  And they
know where it has been.  To move such a vital button to another spot is just
silly.  People wouldn't take the browser seriously just because the Home
button is moved.

- Doc

Lancer wrote:

> me escribio:
>
> >Whose idea was it to place the home button below the main toolbar where
> >Back, Forward, etc. are?  In my humble opinion, it should be placed
> >along side those other buttons.
> >
> >Doc
> >
>
> A Home button, is a shortcut... almost a bookmark. And Back, Forward,
> Reload and Stop are Navigation buttons. So I think it is not a place to
> put a Home button.
>
> /.lancer

Re: I really need this feature!

[Netscape Basher]

psmith typed:
> Sören Kuklau wrote:
> 
>> On 3/9/2002 2:26 PM, psmith apparently wrote exactly the following:
>>
>>> Neither option would allow any reloading initiated by the website.  I 
>>> suppose I left out a default option for not altering the web site's 
>>> reloading at all.
>>
>>
>>
>> Why not post this at bugzilla, or at least in npm.wishlist?
>>
>>> *THANK YOU FOR IMPLEMENTING THIS FOR ME SOON!*
>>
>>
>>
>> I doubt it will happen too soon.
>>
> Actually I did post this on Bugzilla.  It is #109507, been there for 
> about 3 months, but no one seems to have addressed it yet.  I think it's 
> a very useful idea to have scheduled reloading of tabs (and standalone 
> browser windows) as it would be very useful in active following of news 
> type pages, and newswires that either reload way too seldom or too often 
> (like every one minute).
> 

The option can also be used to abuse a website by bogusly reloading the 
site every few seconds, causing the site to use up it's paid bandwidth 
and get shut down. Opera has this option.

--
Kyle

Re: More reasons not to download Netscape 6.2.1 - wait until next release!!

[Jonas Jørgensen]

Netscape Basher wrote:

> Which validates my statement. Do not download 6.2.1 until the next release.

You are posting in the wrong newsgroup. This one is about the Mozilla 
project. The only reason the name begins with "netscape" is that 
Netscape was so kind to donate disk space and bandwidth for the Mozilla 
newsgroups. This newsgroup has nothing to do with Netscape 6. Try one of 
the following:

snews://secnews.netscape.com/netscape.netscape6.windows
snews://secnews.netscape.com/netscape.netscape6.unix
snews://secnews.netscape.com/netscape.netscape6.macintosh

/Jonas

Re: ¿A NEW THEME?

[Michael A. Koenecke]

Lancer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in [EMAIL PROTECTED]:">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:

> You are right, i will be fix those things. I was thinking in PRT for 
> print and about the "FDW" you are totally right, FWD looks far more
> starndar 
> 
> The K may be is more for Netscape, is "keywords".
> 
> and for search... i stll dont know what looks better, SCH? SRH? SER? 
> SEA? :-P Any ideas?

I like it too, and would like to use it. I agree with "PRT" for Print 
(though being able to joke about a "Porn" button has its merits) and FWD 
for Forward; I would vote for SCH for Search.

Re: More reasons not to download Netscape 6.2.1 - wait until nextrelease!!

[Netscape Basher]

Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T. typed:
> 
> Christian Biesinger wrote:
> 
> ---snip---
> 
>>>Giving you a worthless version of Real Player? That is a big issue
>>
>>Which version does Netscape come with?
> 
> 
> I can answer this: RealPlayer 7/8
> 
> RealPlayer is now up to RealPlayerG2 which is equivlent to v10.
> 
> Oh, RealG2 is incompatible with 8 and all 8 components "must" be dumped
> defore G2 will work.
> 
> -snip---

Another 9 megs to download before Real Player plays correctly. For a 
modem user, that is unacceptable. you spend two hours downloading 
Netscape and then you go to play a real audio file and the message, your 
player is out of date..

This is why Netscape is totally dumping on its own users. There is no 
excuse for this.

None.

Re: Put the Home Button on the main toolbar

[Lancer]

me escribio:

>Whose idea was it to place the home button below the main toolbar where
>Back, Forward, etc. are?  In my humble opinion, it should be placed
>along side those other buttons.
>
>Doc
>

A Home button, is a shortcut... almost a bookmark. And Back, Forward,
Reload and Stop are Navigation buttons. So I think it is not a place to 
put a Home button.

/.lancer

Re: More reasons not to download Netscape 6.2.1 - wait until nextrelease!!

[Netscape Basher]

Christian Biesinger typed:
> Netscape Basher wrote:
> 
>> And I've noticed you can't name one single meaningful advantage 
>> Netscape 6.21 has over IE 6.0
>>
>> No killfilter on usenet? That is a big issue.
> 
> 
> Well... it is a bit annoying, but "big issue"? no.
> 
>> High memory usage? That is a big issue.
> 
> 
> Not in my opinion.
> 
>> Abandonment of theme development on 6.2.1? Shitting on users
> 
> 
> Pardon?? You call it "shitting on users" providing five themes for a 
> browser?

Considering Netscape hasn't made single one available for months. Opera 
gives dozens of themes.

> 
>> Giving you a worthless version of Real Player? That is a big issue
> 
> 
> Which version does Netscape come with?
> 
> But anyway, if you want a newer one, don't install the one distributed 
> with Netscape, but get it from real.com.  This is not at all a big issue.

End users shouldn't have to do this and it is a big deal with modem 
users, which are the majority of users. Get in touch with the general 
internet crowd.


> 
>> Having to register it? That is a big issue
> 
> 
> You don't have to register it.

Oh, and that lovely pop-up box is just there to please us?

> 
>> Mega problems with Communicator moving their settings to it? That is a 
>> big issue
> 
> 
> I have never had such a problem with Mozilla, can't speak about Netscape.

Read all the problems with it in this newsgroup. It's a problem


> 
>> And the fact it's been four years and STILL no 1.0 Mozilla version, 
>> and the roadmap continues to be moved back.
> 
> 
> My personal guess is that 1.0 will be released in April, as the roadmap 
> states.

Go back and read the road map from two years ago. One year ago.
0.9.9 is behind schedule.


> 
>> And the fact more bugs are being found than fixed.
> 
> 
> Most "new found bugs" are really either already known or requests for 
> enhancements.

Not according to their own statistics. More bugs are being assigned than 
fixed.

> 
>> It's taken the Mozilla folks four years and still not a full version 
>> of Mozilla yet.
> 
> 
> Every day a full version of Mozilla is made available.
> 
>> Another sneaky Netscape trick, it sneaks web.aol.com as a trusted site 
>> in MS Internet Explorer making it override your default settings for 
>> all sites.
> 
> 
> Does it? I don't know. But Mozilla definitely does not do this.
> 

Mozilla is not an end-product, it is a beta product, has been for four 
years now.

Re: More reasons not to download Netscape 6.2.1 - wait until nextrelease!!

[Netscape Basher]

Which validates my statement. Do not download 6.2.1 until the next release.

Bamm Gabriana typed:
>>No killfilter on usenet? That is a big issue.
> 
> It is a big issue. It will be added soon. But don't expect it done
> in 1.0. The purpose of 1.0 is to provide an API freeze, not a
> final end-user product.
> 
> 
>>High memory usage? That is a big issue.
> 
> It is being worked on. Btw, Netscape 6.2.1 uses over 3 times
> as much memory than Mozilla nightly 2002030803 which I am
> currently using.
> 
> 
>>Abandonment of theme development on 6.2.1? Shitting on users
> 
> The theme format has changed. But 1.0 will provide an API freeze,
> meaning formats will not change from there on. When Netscape 6.5
> comes out (which will be based on Moz 1.0) you can build themes
> which will be guaranteed to work with all future versions of NS.
> 
> 
>>Giving you a worthless version of Real Player? That is a big issue
> 
> I am using Moz nightly 2002030803 and I don't recall having Real
> Player installed. Perhaps we are using a different browser.

Netscape 6.2.1, not Mozilla.

> 
> 
>>Having to register it? That is a big issue
> 
> I am using Moz nightly 2002030803 and I don't recall having to
> register it. Perhaps you are complaining about the wrong browser.
> 
> 
>>Mega problems with Communicator moving their settings to it?
>>That is a big issue
> 
> I am using Moz nightly 2002030803 and I don't recall having
> problems moving my Communicator settings. Perhaps you are
> not using Moz.

I mentioned Netscape 6.2.1 not Mozilla.

> 
> 
>>AOL refuses to use it on 7.0 when they could of? That is a big issue.
> 
> Because it still doesn't have a frozen set of API's. AOL is waiting
> for 1.0 so they could use it.
> 
> 

I disagree totally. AOL is not waiting for 1.0 to use with it's products.

Re: ¿A NEW THEME?

[Lancer]

Jason Johnston escribio:

> I'd be careful about the abbreviations you use... "SRC" seems closer 
> to "Source" than "Search", and "PRN" seems closer to "Porn" than 
> "Print". Or perhaps you were planning on adding a "Porn" button to 
> Mozilla? Might be handy... ;-)
> "FDW" should probably be "FWD"
> What does the "K" stand for?
>
> I guess internationalization wouldn't work with the button text, 
> that's too bad.
>
> Keep it up!
> --J


You are right, i will be fix those things. I was thinking in PRT for 
print and about the "FDW" you are totally right, FWD looks far more starndar

The K may be is more for Netscape, is "keywords".

and for search... i stll dont know what looks better, SCH? SRH? SER? 
SEA? :-P Any ideas?

/.lancer

Re: Sun Java Question about mozilla

[me]

Maybe I am wayoff base.  If I am, please someone correct me.  But, it does
appear that Java2 JRE is officially supporting Netscape 6.  Since Netscape 6 is
based directly off the Mozilla code, I would think that Mozilla would work with
Java2 JRE whether or not the support is official.

- Doc

"Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T." wrote:

> This thread has ben going for a day or so in the Java group.
>
> "Java2 JRE not gonna support Mozilla officially..."
>
> Are any of you in the general/wishlist Groups aware of this. From the
> original thread it appears Sun will not be supporting Mozilla
> compatibility with Java2.
>
> Anyone know about this, and what are the consequences of this to
> Mozilla?
>
> This is not trolling. This is asking a legit question. Some folks over
> in the Java group appear to be worried about. Should they be?
>
> --
> ---
>
> Phillip M. Jones, CET  |MEMBER:VPEA (LIFE) ETA-I, NESDA,ISCET,
> Sterling
> 616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045,
> FAX:276-632-0868
> Martinsville Va 24112-1809 |[EMAIL PROTECTED], ICQ11269732, AIM
> pjonescet
> ---
>
> If it's "fixed", don't "break it"!
>
> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: Put the Home Button on the main toolbar

[Jonas Jørgensen]

me wrote:
> Whose idea was it to place the home button below the main toolbar where
> Back, Forward, etc. are?  In my humble opinion, it should be placed
> along side those other buttons.

http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89350

Sun Java Question about mozilla

[Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.]

This thread has ben going for a day or so in the Java group.

"Java2 JRE not gonna support Mozilla officially..."

Are any of you in the general/wishlist Groups aware of this. From the
original thread it appears Sun will not be supporting Mozilla
compatibility with Java2.

Anyone know about this, and what are the consequences of this to
Mozilla?

This is not trolling. This is asking a legit question. Some folks over
in the Java group appear to be worried about. Should they be?

--
---

Phillip M. Jones, CET  |MEMBER:VPEA (LIFE) ETA-I, NESDA,ISCET,
Sterling
616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045,
FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va 24112-1809 |[EMAIL PROTECTED], ICQ11269732, AIM
pjonescet
---

If it's "fixed", don't "break it"!

mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Put the Home Button on the main toolbar

[me]

Whose idea was it to place the home button below the main toolbar where
Back, Forward, etc. are?  In my humble opinion, it should be placed
along side those other buttons.

Doc

Re: ¿A NEW THEME?

[Jason Johnston]

Lancer wrote:
> If you think you have seen all about themes... ...you are wrong.
> 
> http://www.x-mail.net/latinmoz/exsertus/markup_language_theme.html
> 

I like it!  I think it has great potential, can't wait to see more of it.

I'd be careful about the abbreviations you use... "SRC" seems closer to 
"Source" than "Search", and "PRN" seems closer to "Porn" than "Print". 
Or perhaps you were planning on adding a "Porn" button to Mozilla? 
Might be handy... ;-)
"FDW" should probably be "FWD"
What does the "K" stand for?

I guess internationalization wouldn't work with the button text, that's 
too bad.

Keep it up!
--J

Re: More reasons not to download Netscape 6.2.1 - wait until nextrelease!!

[Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.]

Christian Biesinger wrote:

---snip---
> 
> > Giving you a worthless version of Real Player? That is a big issue
> 
> Which version does Netscape come with?

I can answer this: RealPlayer 7/8

RealPlayer is now up to RealPlayerG2 which is equivlent to v10.

Oh, RealG2 is incompatible with 8 and all 8 components "must" be dumped
defore G2 will work.

-snip---
-- 
---
Phillip M. Jones, CET  |MEMBER:VPEA (LIFE) ETA-I, NESDA,ISCET, Sterling
616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va 24112-1809 |[EMAIL PROTECTED], ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
---

If it's "fixed", don't "break it"!

mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: unattended installation of mozilla (win32)

[Macintox]

thanks,

thats exactly what I was looking for!

(i tried to use setup.exe [of the unpacked version] with parameters)

THANKS!


"Christian Biesinger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Macintox wrote:
> > does anybody know how the mozilla browser (win32) can be installed and
> > configured in silent (unattended) mode.
>
> The following arguments are supported by the installer:
>/* -h: this help
> * -a [path]: Alternate archive search path
> * -n [filename]: setup's parent's process filename
> * -ma: run setup in Auto mode
> * -ms: run setup in Silent mode
> * -ira: ignore the [RunAppX] sections
> * -ispf: ignore the [Program FolderX] sections that show
> *the Start Menu shortcut folder at the end of installation.
> */
>
>
> I don't know any details about how they work, though.
>
>
>
> --
> "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
> safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
>   -- Benjamin Franklin
>

Re: Who is "the user"?

[Matthew Thomas]

Gervase Markham wrote:
> 
> http://www.mozilla.org.uk/docs/personae/
> 
> This is my contribution to the "Who is Mozilla's target user?" debate.
> Comments welcome :-)
>...

You say this was inspired by Alan Cooper's /The inmates are running the
asylum/, but only one of your four personas (Ling) is a `user' as Cooper
would understand the term.

You appear to be describing people using the Mozilla *code*, rather than
those using a *product* which includes the code. That's an
understandable approach, but it is prone to severe bias. For example,
the number of Lings (Mozilla testers/hackers) will surely be an order of
magnitude greater than the number of Hanses (ISP distributors). Does
that mean that Mozilla should concentrate on pleasing the Lings more
than it concentrates on pleasing the Hanses? I hope not, since Hans will
get Mozilla user agents used by far more people than Ling will.

I described the users I'm designing for back in December
.

I doubt that Hans will be able to afford enough of an investment in
Mozilla that he can either (1) deploy XUL account maintenance apps, or
(2) hack Mozilla's XUL to remove unwanted menu/toolbar items. While
Mozilla may be the ISP's default browser, they can't afford to lock out
the fraction of customers who prefer browsers which don't support XUL,
especially since (given Mozilla's current rate of improvement) that
fraction will be very high for the next couple of years at least.

Finally, do you have Ling's phone number?

(Kidding ...)

-- 
Matthew `mpt' Thomas, Mozilla UI Design component default assignee thing

Re: Netscape snooping on search terms from Netscape6

[Jonas Jørgensen]

Jay Garcia wrote:

> In order to be classified as "Spyware", it would have to know your
> personal information to associate with the search criteria as well as
> demographics such as where you live possibly and/or other delimiting
> personal information. And since this "feature" cannot do that it cannot
> be classified as "Spyware". Every time you send email and/or post to a
> newsgroup, your IP address is readily available.

I disagree. "Spyware" is any software that spies on what you are doing 
without your consent. For people with static IP adresses, an IP address 
could be enough to reveal personal information.

We don't know what AOL does with the data it collects, but Netscape 6 
certanly does qualify as _potential_ spyware. That doesn't make it any 
worse than MSIE, though -- type an invalid domain name and you are taken 
to MSN search. Who knows what MSFT does with the data they collect?

So both IE and NS could potentially be spying on their users. Lucky for 
me that I use Mozilla.

/Jonas

Re: Content Type for .css files

[Christian Biesinger]

Jens Hatlak wrote:
> Christian Biesinger wrote:
>> However, this is only the case for pages using the strict mode.
>> It works for others, so a doctype like this can be used and the 
>> stylesheet will work:
>> 
>> (I hope I remember correctly...(

> The problem is not the Strict mode but the URL. 

Eh, the URL triggers the Strict Mode.
And there are doctypes without URLs that trigger strict mode as well, afaik.


-- 
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
  -- Benjamin Franklin

Re: URL could not be found. Check name & try again. <- Huh!!!

[Dan Howard]

Courtney Thomas wrote:
 > I am getting the above error msg. whenever I try to access anything using
 > mozilla, although Netscape4 "on the same machine" connects
 > w/o problems.
 >
 > It boots up OK, but just won't connect to anything.
 >
 > What's wrong and how do I fix it, please.
 >
 > Thank you, Courtney
 >
Mozilla has long had a problem with bad pages getting stuck in the cache 
and not letting a new version in.

Assuming Mozilla worked before and has now stopped working, try clearing
your cache.  Edit/Preferences/Advanced/Cache has buttons for clearing 
disk and memory cache; click both.

If that doesn't work, try deletingthe cache manually -- sometimes it 
doesn't all get cleared.  On my Win98 installation, I delete everething 
in my cache folder, which is at C:/Windows/Application 
data/mozilla/Profiles/default/[generated profile number]/Cache.

Re: Content Type for .css files

[Jonas Jørgensen]

Jens Hatlak wrote:

> The problem is not the Strict mode but the URL. No matter if you use 
> Strict or Transitional: The .css file will not be recognized if both the 
> server sends the file with the wrong MIME type *and* a URL is specified, 
> e.g.
> 
>  "http://www.w3.org/TR/1999/PR-html40-19990824/loose.dtd";>

"Strict mode" refers to Mozilla's strict standards compliance layout 
mode, as opposed to the backwards-compatible quirks mode. Some HTML 
Transitional DOCTYPEs trigger strict layout mode.

http://mozilla.org/docs/web-developer/quirks/

/Jonas

Re: I really need this feature!

[psmith]

Sören Kuklau wrote:

> On 3/9/2002 2:26 PM, psmith apparently wrote exactly the following:
>
>> Neither option would allow any reloading initiated by the website.  I 
>> suppose I left out a default option for not altering the web site's 
>> reloading at all.
>
>
> Why not post this at bugzilla, or at least in npm.wishlist?
>
>> *THANK YOU FOR IMPLEMENTING THIS FOR ME SOON!*
>
>
> I doubt it will happen too soon.
>
Actually I did post this on Bugzilla.  It is #109507, been there for 
about 3 months, but no one seems to have addressed it yet.  I think it's 
a very useful idea to have scheduled reloading of tabs (and standalone 
browser windows) as it would be very useful in active following of news 
type pages, and newswires that either reload way too seldom or too often 
(like every one minute).

Re: URL could not be found. Check name & try again. <- Huh!!!

[cw]

Try making sure there aren't any proxies specified.

Edit > Preferences > Advanced > Proxies

Alternatively it may be that you require a proxy to be specified. See what 
is specified in Netscape and copy the settings over to Mozilla. In Netscape 
4.x the setting should be in the same place.


-- 
Colin
*Drop DEAD from the email address to reply*

URL could not be found. Check name & try again. <- Huh!!!

[Courtney Thomas]

I am getting the above error msg. whenever I try to access anything 
using mozilla, although
Netscape4 "on the same machine" connects w/o problems.

It boots up OK, but just won't connect to anything.

What's wrong and how do I fix it, please.

Thank you,
Courtney

Re: I really need this feature!

[Sören Kuklau]

On 3/9/2002 2:26 PM, psmith apparently wrote exactly the following:
> Neither option would allow any reloading initiated by the website.  I 
> suppose I left out a default option for not altering the web site's 
> reloading at all.

Why not post this at bugzilla, or at least in npm.wishlist?

> *THANK YOU FOR IMPLEMENTING THIS FOR ME SOON!*

I doubt it will happen too soon.

-- 
Regards,
Sören Kuklau ('Chucker')
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Content Type for .css files

[Jens Hatlak]

Christian Biesinger wrote:
> Sören Kuklau wrote:
> 
>> On 3/2/2002 1:57 PM, Val Sharp apparently wrote exactly the following:
>>
>>> Mozilla has started checking the Content Type of stylesheets, and 
>>> won't recognise the file if it has the wrong Content Type.
>>
>>
>>
>> True. This was, I think, changed in 0.9.7. Should be somewhere in the 
>> release notes.
> 
> 
> However, this is only the case for pages using the strict mode.
> It works for others, so a doctype like this can be used and the 
> stylesheet will work:
> 
> (I hope I remember correctly...(

The problem is not the Strict mode but the URL. No matter if you use 
Strict or Transitional: The .css file will not be recognized if both the 
server sends the file with the wrong MIME type *and* a URL is specified, 
e.g.

http://www.w3.org/TR/1999/PR-html40-19990824/loose.dtd";>

won't work if the server sends .css files with wrong MIME type, but the 
DTD you specified will.

Unfortunately, the 0.9.7 release notes state something which can easily 
be misinterpreted; I myself had to ask someone to find this out. 
Finally, I simply changed our server's settings. :-)


Jens
-- 
Jens Hatlak 
Jugendnetz Frankfurt Adminteam 

Re: little test help

[PeEmm]

Lancer wrote:

> I have been  making some changes and adds to latinmoz. I found this
> host, and i d like if you could test how fast the pages loads, for be
> able to move the site definitivily
> 
> http://latinmoz.f2g.net/index.html


6.15 sec's (512kbit cable)

> 
> Dont forget to look the SOMNIO EXSERTUS ("Dreamed Proyect" in latin),
> you can go directly here:
> 
> http://latinmoz.f2g.net/exsertus/exsertus.html


0.22 sec's (512kbit cable)





-- 
/P.M.

Re: ¿Blade Runner or Artificial Intelligence?

[PeEmm]

Sören Kuklau wrote:

> On 3/8/2002 12:50 PM, Lancer apparently wrote exactly the following:
> 
>> ¿Blade Runner or Artificial Intelligence?
> 
> 
> Spammer perhaps?
> 
> 

No, Blade Runner is better. But I haven't seen it for a long time. And 
never the Director's Cut.

-- 
/P.M.

Re: More reasons not to download Netscape 6.2.1 - wait until next release!!

[Christian Biesinger]

Bamm Gabriana wrote:
>>>Having to register it? That is a big issue
>>
>>You don't have to register it.
> 
> He's right on this one.[...]
> So I uninstalled Netscape and installed Mozilla and all was fine.

I said you need not register it. The following page describes how to get 
rid of the "Activation" Screen.

http://www.hmetzger.de/net6e.html#4

-- 
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
  -- Benjamin Franklin

I really need this feature!

[psmith]

Neither option would allow any reloading initiated by the website.  I suppose
I left out a default option for not altering the web site's reloading at
all.  THANK YOU FOR IMPLEMENTING THIS FOR ME SOON!

Re: New Skin for 1.0

[Sierk Bornemann]

Lancer wrote:
> Patrick Gallagher wrote:
> 
>> or Grey Modern - very nice skin
>>
>> hopefully themes will become more abundant once the API freeze happens 
>> at 1.0
>>
>> Patrick
> 
> 
> More abundant?! ...Oh no please! Have you seen that thing which name is 
> "WOOD", his author dare to call that a Mozilla Theme...

Yes! Yes! Yes! Full ACK!

Skins shouldn't be a playground for hobby artists. If any possible, 
skins should reflect rock solid knowledge of UI design!
If misused as a more-or-less Eye-catcher-stuff with misusing the basics 
of UI design, bad skins are more a pain for daily use than a help.
And either the "wooden skin" as "little mozilla" I call more a pain for 
the eyes than a good product of UI design. With that kind of stuff the 
new Mozilla/Netscape browser *will* remain in a non-professional corner.
Why do Apple, SUN and all the other big companies have an eye on 
usability research centers and studies? To make unprofessional skins? I 
doupt that. As a non-such-professional author you *are* able to make a 
good skin. But you shouldn't do it without any basics in UI design. 
Before making any step in creating a new skin read, learn, teach 
yourself in  the basics of UI design, improve your skills. The web is 
full of public stuff and specifications, that can help (to begin with 
the published stuff by Apple, SUN, Microsoft, GNOME, KDE,...).
And only maybe then -- publish a skin to the world that is so much used 
and so important as the one of a Browser Interface!

> And no... I hope that no happen, I am full with all the trash generated 
> by Winamp 2.x

Also full ACK. See above.


Maybe OT and f'up to n.p.m.themes or n.p..m.ui
-- 
# Sierk Bornemann | Germany
# [EMAIL PROTECTED]
# http://home.t-online.de/home/Sierk.Bornemann/

Re: unattended installation of mozilla (win32)

[Christian Biesinger]

Macintox wrote:
> does anybody know how the mozilla browser (win32) can be installed and
> configured in silent (unattended) mode.

The following arguments are supported by the installer:
   /* -h: this help
* -a [path]: Alternate archive search path
* -n [filename]: setup's parent's process filename
* -ma: run setup in Auto mode
* -ms: run setup in Silent mode
* -ira: ignore the [RunAppX] sections
* -ispf: ignore the [Program FolderX] sections that show
*the Start Menu shortcut folder at the end of installation.
*/


I don't know any details about how they work, though.



-- 
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
  -- Benjamin Franklin

Re: Can't we get some decent trolls around here anymore? [was: Netscape snooping on search terms from Netscape6]

[Parish]

Mike Gratton wrote:
> 
> Netscape Basher wrote:
>> 
>> Good old AOL and Netscape combine for spyware. Another reason not to use 
>> it right now.
>> 
> 
> Look, if you're going to waste everyone's time by trolling, you could at 
> least put a bit of effort into it. I mean, as a troll, this last post 
> was pretty damm pathetic.
> 
> And looking at your past efforts, it's pretty clear that you're lacking 
> the refinement, intelligence and quick wit that's needed to be an 
> effective troll on the moden Internet. It's not good enough to put 
> together a line or two which is at odds with the majority of the group 
> you're trolling. Any semi-conscious half-wit can do that. Using 
> "Netscape Basher" for your handle? Pluheese, did you make that up or did 
> your daddy help? Show a bit of pride in your work, for crying out loud. 
> You need to be witty, eloquent, you need to spice up the troll with 
> hints or outright accusations of stupidiy, malevolence, spite, 
> censorship, hiprocracy and conspiracy. You need to make people read your 
> troll even though they don't want to and a few poor accusations and 
> nasty words here and there are not going to cut it.
> 
> You'd better buck up, matey, or you're going to get left behind. In 
> fact, you're already far, far behind.
> 

ROFLMAO

> Mike.
> 
> (-1, Troll)
> 



-- 
Software is like sex, it's better when it's free  - Linus Torvalds

Anti-spam e-mail address, change _AT_, sorry for the inconvenience

Re: ¿Blade Runner or Artificial Intelligence?

[Holger Metzger]

Morten Nilsen wrote:
> Lancer wrote:
>> ¿Blade Runner or Artificial Intelligence?
>> 
> 
> Blade Runner - allways go with a classic
> 

But only the Director's Cut. :-)

Holger
-- 
Five exclamation marks, the sure sign of an insane mind.
(Terry Pratchett, Reaper Man)
Netscape 6 Tips: http://www.hmetzger.de/netscape6.html

Re: ¿Blade Runner or Artificial Intelligence?

[Sören Kuklau]

On 3/8/2002 12:50 PM, Lancer apparently wrote exactly the following:
> ¿Blade Runner or Artificial Intelligence?

Spammer perhaps?


-- 
Regards,
Sören Kuklau ('Chucker')
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: More reasons not to download Netscape 6.2.1 - wait until next release!!

[Bamm Gabriana]

> > Having to register it? That is a big issue
>
> You don't have to register it.

He's right on this one. I tried to install Netscape 6.2.1 on my
friend's new computer. Netscape will not open the first time
until you sign up with a Netcenter account. But my friend
could not sign up because she has no internet connection
yet. Result: the activation page won't go away.

So I uninstalled Netscape and installed Mozilla and all was fine.

Bamm :)

Re: ¿Blade Runner or Artificial Intelligence?

[Morten Nilsen]

Lancer wrote:
> ¿Blade Runner or Artificial Intelligence?
> 

Blade Runner - allways go with a classic

-- 
Morten Nilsen, aka Dr. P

We are the borg^]dbdbiMicrosoft.
Prepare to be assimilated^]dbiembraced and extended.
Resistance is futile^]dbdbdbiWe know you want it.
:wq

Re: More reasons not to download Netscape 6.2.1 - wait until next release!!

[Christian Biesinger]

Netscape Basher wrote:
> You mean like this one?
> Check out the name. It says Netscape.

Eh. Mozilla was originally Netscape product, so this newsgroup is in the 
netscape.* hierarchy. It is planned to rename these groups to mozilla.* 
to avoid this confusion.

Still, *this* newsgroup is for discussing Mozilla, not Netscape.

-- 
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
  -- Benjamin Franklin

Re: More reasons not to download Netscape 6.2.1 - wait until next release!!

[Christian Biesinger]

Netscape Basher wrote:
> And I've noticed you can't name one single meaningful advantage Netscape 
> 6.21 has over IE 6.0
> 
> No killfilter on usenet? That is a big issue.

Well... it is a bit annoying, but "big issue"? no.

> High memory usage? That is a big issue.

Not in my opinion.

> Abandonment of theme development on 6.2.1? Shitting on users

Pardon?? You call it "shitting on users" providing five themes for a 
browser?

> Giving you a worthless version of Real Player? That is a big issue

Which version does Netscape come with?

But anyway, if you want a newer one, don't install the one distributed 
with Netscape, but get it from real.com.  This is not at all a big issue.

> Having to register it? That is a big issue

You don't have to register it.

> Mega problems with Communicator moving their settings to it? That is a 
> big issue

I have never had such a problem with Mozilla, can't speak about Netscape.

> And the fact it's been four years and STILL no 1.0 Mozilla version, and 
> the roadmap continues to be moved back.

My personal guess is that 1.0 will be released in April, as the roadmap 
states.

> And the fact more bugs are being found than fixed.

Most "new found bugs" are really either already known or requests for 
enhancements.

> It's taken the Mozilla folks four years and still not a full version of 
> Mozilla yet.

Every day a full version of Mozilla is made available.

> Another sneaky Netscape trick, it sneaks web.aol.com as a 
> trusted site in MS Internet Explorer making it override your default 
> settings for all sites.

Does it? I don't know. But Mozilla definitely does not do this.

-- 
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
  -- Benjamin Franklin

Nikki Nova's Open Wide - wanna see?

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Re: full screen toolbar.....

[Bamm Gabriana]

"Morten Nilsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Bamm Gabriana wrote:
> > He is refering to the Navigation Toolbar in Full Screen mode.
> > It's really pretty and I wish I had the option to make it my
> > default navigation toolbar, even without full screen mode.
>
> memory serving me, that can be done with a bit of user css,
> but I can't point you in the right way tho

That's true. But what I wish is for it to be an option, so that other
users can just use View | Show/Hide | Toolbar Text without having
to mess with XUL and CSS.

I hope it can be done in the future. :)

Re: full screen toolbar.....

[Morten Nilsen]

Bamm Gabriana wrote:
> He is refering to the Navigation Toolbar in Full Screen mode.
> It's really pretty and I wish I had the option to make it my
> default navigation toolbar, even without full screen mode.

memory serving me, that can be done with a bit of user css,
but I can't point you in the right way tho

-- 
Morten Nilsen, aka Dr. P

We are the borg^]dbdbiMicrosoft.
Prepare to be assimilated^]dbiembraced and extended.
Resistance is futile^]dbdbdbiWe know you want it.
:wq